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<v Speaker 1>This is pod Popular Podcast for the People, The Great

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<v Speaker 1>Love Debate. It's Great Love Debate, the Great Love Debate.

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<v Speaker 2>It's a Great Love Debase. Hi again, everyone's Brian Howie.

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<v Speaker 2>Welcome to the Great Love Debate, the world's number one

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<v Speaker 2>dating relationship podcast since twenty fifteen. I'm back here in

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<v Speaker 2>the very fine studios of Pod Popular Podcasts for the People.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm back of the one in Boca Ratone, Florida. It

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<v Speaker 2>is peak peak season in Boca Raton, Florida. And if

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<v Speaker 2>you've been in any part of Florida during season, you

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<v Speaker 2>know that A there's traffic, but B traffic's probably worth

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<v Speaker 2>it because it's lovely. Speaking of lovely, as I record this,

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<v Speaker 2>I think in your podcasting roster here we are up

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<v Speaker 2>to like episode four nineties something. I don't know exactly

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<v Speaker 2>what this is before ninety something. So we are closing

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<v Speaker 2>in on our five hundredth episode. Now, to get technical

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<v Speaker 2>with us, probably about thirty five or forty shows got

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<v Speaker 2>lost in the sands of time that we did back

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<v Speaker 2>during our Corolla digital days. Our podcast one guys, and

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<v Speaker 2>no offence to them, they were great. But when you

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<v Speaker 2>back ten years ago, when you transferred feeds around or whatever.

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<v Speaker 2>Not all of them got transferred, some of them got lost.

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<v Speaker 2>Some are really good with some really famous people, so

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<v Speaker 2>maybe I'll find them and release them as a best

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<v Speaker 2>of But for practical purposes, we are closing in on

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<v Speaker 2>our five hundredth episode, and I asked you guys to

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<v Speaker 2>send us suggestions of what I should do for my

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<v Speaker 2>five hundredth episode. I can't believe the amount of people

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<v Speaker 2>who want to do ask me to do it nude,

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<v Speaker 2>which is crazy because you assume I'm not doing it

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<v Speaker 2>nude already, which is dumb. So I want some ideas.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't want to just sit here and do a

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<v Speaker 2>retrospective of five hundredth I want to do something. If

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<v Speaker 2>there's a guest you want, we can get just about

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<v Speaker 2>everybody pretty popular. If there's a subject you want. If

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<v Speaker 2>there's something, shoot me an email, great love debate at

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<v Speaker 2>gmail dot com and tell me what do you want

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<v Speaker 2>to hear for episode five hundred, Because in the podcasting world,

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<v Speaker 2>five hundred episodes is a very very rare thing. Most

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<v Speaker 2>people don't to talk about anything for ten straight years.

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<v Speaker 2>I will talk about this forever. So when we do

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<v Speaker 2>episode five thousand, five hundred is gonna seem point. I

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<v Speaker 2>remember when I did my one hundredth live show and

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<v Speaker 2>we had a big celebration, and I was like, people

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<v Speaker 2>are like, oh, wow, you did a hundred live shows.

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<v Speaker 2>That's amazing. We're like four point thirty now. So anyway,

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<v Speaker 2>something we do not do enough in these five hundred

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<v Speaker 2>or so shows is we don't have enough dudes on

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<v Speaker 2>the show. We don't have enough men on the show.

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<v Speaker 2>And some of our highest rated shows we've ever had

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<v Speaker 2>have involved us talking to some fellas about life experiences

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<v Speaker 2>that people always ask me that, And there's a practical reason,

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<v Speaker 2>and there's a personal reason. The personal reason is women

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<v Speaker 2>just look better and smell better in the studio, so

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<v Speaker 2>I'd rather have them around. But the practical reason is

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<v Speaker 2>that women like to talk about this stuff, love, sex, dating,

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<v Speaker 2>relationship a lot more than men do, or at least

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<v Speaker 2>that's the perception. And maybe it's because I'm not asking

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<v Speaker 2>the questions enough of the men. And maybe it's because

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<v Speaker 2>you know, we're not giving the men the credit for

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<v Speaker 2>being as open and honest and vulnerablebout this stuff. You

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<v Speaker 2>guys know me, You know I've changed a bunch over

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<v Speaker 2>the last couple of years. So I'm bringing in somebody

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<v Speaker 2>here today. I guess that on his podcast and it

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<v Speaker 2>was great, and he had me ask a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>questions about my own journey. He is one of the

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<v Speaker 2>co hosts of the very popular back nine podcast, and

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<v Speaker 2>back nine is not entirely about golf, and he will

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<v Speaker 2>get into that a second. And I was glad to

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<v Speaker 2>have him in here today because he has a really

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<v Speaker 2>interesting story, really into someting journey that I think not

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<v Speaker 2>only the men will like, but I think the women

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<v Speaker 2>will like it too. Dennis Williams, how are you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm doing great, Thanks for having me in.

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<v Speaker 2>I want to start off this way. You were married

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<v Speaker 2>a long time.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, got married young, twenty seven. I just turned twenty

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<v Speaker 3>seven years old and was married almost twenty years, which

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<v Speaker 3>beautiful daughters, and yeah for that marriage, and it.

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<v Speaker 2>Was great twenty You know, getting married this your late

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<v Speaker 2>twenties is not crazy. It's not like you married I

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<v Speaker 2>don't think she was your high school sweetheart or anything.

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<v Speaker 2>But you got married, and you go through your late twenties,

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<v Speaker 2>you go through your thirties, ye're into your forties, and

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<v Speaker 2>you're pretty much like this is it right? And then

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<v Speaker 2>suddenly twenty years in for whatever reason, you're shot back

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<v Speaker 2>out and to the single universe. Confused, not entirely hopeful,

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<v Speaker 2>probably a little bit broken, like a lot of people are. Right.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I was really broken. I actually thought I was done.

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<v Speaker 3>I think part of it was my self esteem had

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<v Speaker 3>been dropped so much by her and the blind side

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<v Speaker 3>that happened from the breakup, that I really thought at

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<v Speaker 3>forty six, forty seven years old, that I was toast,

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<v Speaker 3>that I had no chance to meet somebody that I

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<v Speaker 3>didn't really understand. And it's so laughable to me now,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, based on our podcast, your podcast and all

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<v Speaker 3>the people you talk to and what you know, and

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<v Speaker 3>then you're twenty seven is the sweets I realized that, man,

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<v Speaker 3>I was a freaking unicorn, you know. I mean basically,

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<v Speaker 3>somebody told me that, and I've used that again for

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<v Speaker 3>my other friends that have gotten divorced or split up.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm like, it's you have a job, you can talk,

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<v Speaker 3>you're like normal, you haven't served time, like young enough to.

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<v Speaker 2>Be a dad still if your choices are like twenty

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<v Speaker 2>one to fifty five.

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<v Speaker 3>The only thing that did draw the line in the

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<v Speaker 3>stand is I wasn't gonna have more kids.

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<v Speaker 1>R I did. I did.

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<v Speaker 3>I did get that part through it. It didn't allow

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<v Speaker 3>me to go really young. But the women at least

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<v Speaker 3>look at you as a candidate. They don't know that

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<v Speaker 3>until they talked to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Good point, yeah, good point. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So it's one of those things where I but at

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<v Speaker 3>the time, man, it took me a while. It took

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<v Speaker 3>me dating apps. It took me going on dates to

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<v Speaker 3>realize it, and and and actually it took me looking

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<v Speaker 3>at dating apps to see what the pool was.

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<v Speaker 1>And you realize, okay, well, I'm gonna be okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, I mean that's the well. I mean, you could

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<v Speaker 2>have just gone outside. You're gonna be okay, there's people outside.

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<v Speaker 2>But that's the thing. When you got married, there were

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<v Speaker 2>no dating apps or pretty much that. There might have

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<v Speaker 2>been like a match dot com or something, but twenty years.

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<v Speaker 1>Ago even think so, no, I it was uh yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>everything was very organic. Uh it was.

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<v Speaker 3>I was married in ninety seven, so so everything was

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<v Speaker 3>very very organic, the.

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<v Speaker 2>Old fashioned way in the bars and that's where and

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<v Speaker 2>so yeah, and then you go and it's like, can

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<v Speaker 2>I have your phone number? And you'd write it on

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<v Speaker 2>a napkin and you call her up and ask her

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<v Speaker 2>out and pick her up and do all. It was

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<v Speaker 2>different right now it's uh swipe, text, meet up, hangout. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>was this really a date? I don't know. So you

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<v Speaker 2>get out there and you must know. I don't want

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<v Speaker 2>to get into why you got divorced, but obviously you

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<v Speaker 2>said it was painful. So you're coming out of that

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<v Speaker 2>and you're probably like, that was my relationship? Do I

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<v Speaker 2>have fifty years ahead of being by myself? And you

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<v Speaker 2>know your dad and all that. There's some solace in that,

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<v Speaker 2>but you're like, what is the first thing you're thinking?

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<v Speaker 2>And how long does it take between the time you

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<v Speaker 2>got divorced and the time that you're like, I gotta

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<v Speaker 2>try something. Is that six days or is it like

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<v Speaker 2>a long time?

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<v Speaker 1>It's a couple of months.

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<v Speaker 3>And then it's those first few uh, you know, dates, hookups.

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<v Speaker 1>Those kinds of I think it's the first. Honestly for a.

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<v Speaker 3>Guy, it's like the first hookup. If you've been faithful

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<v Speaker 3>to somebody for twenty years, it's like, Okay, I hooked

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<v Speaker 3>up again. I'm gonna be all right. So riding a bike,

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<v Speaker 3>you know, it's one of those things where you got

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<v Speaker 3>you have to hook up a few times and you're like,

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<v Speaker 3>this hasn't changed.

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<v Speaker 2>This seems the sense I'm still all right.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 3>So once you do that that, I mean it's shallow,

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<v Speaker 3>but that's where guys get a lot of their confidence.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you know.

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<v Speaker 3>You're attracted to somebody. It leads to that and you're okay, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>literally you have to go through that, you by riding

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<v Speaker 3>a bike. You have to ride that bike a few

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<v Speaker 3>times before you get your mojo back.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, what it means is somebody finds me on some

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<v Speaker 2>level desirous. Right, everybody just think I'm gross? There's some

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<v Speaker 2>possibility like that is really the first step because we think,

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<v Speaker 2>I would say this is men. We think they think

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<v Speaker 2>we're disgusting because that's the way we look at ourselves.

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<v Speaker 2>And so you go back out there and somebody is

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<v Speaker 2>even mildly interested in you, that's step one to getting

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<v Speaker 2>your confidence back. Because you're always you're trying to leave

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<v Speaker 2>the past relationship and the pain of that in the

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<v Speaker 2>rear view mirror. You're not trying to bring that into

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<v Speaker 2>a relationship. You're just kind of baby stepping your way

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<v Speaker 2>back into is there even a possibility that I could

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<v Speaker 2>be happy again? Much less being a long term relationship.

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<v Speaker 3>There's that, and there's also kind of once you do

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<v Speaker 3>take those next steps, they are also trusting and deciding

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<v Speaker 3>whether you really want to be friends with somebody of

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<v Speaker 3>the opposite sex again and going through all of that

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<v Speaker 3>stuff again or is it just going.

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<v Speaker 1>To be physical.

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<v Speaker 3>Like that's the the other thing you have to navigate.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, for the for the first part, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>if I was going to give any guy advice is

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<v Speaker 3>take your freaking time, man, Like, don't don't jump right back.

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<v Speaker 3>It's so I've seen so many guys I have a

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<v Speaker 3>friend right now that's kind of done this that you

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<v Speaker 3>just you almost overlap, you go, you have to go

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<v Speaker 3>back into that like codependent jumping back into a relationship

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<v Speaker 3>thing because that's all, you know, and the best thing

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<v Speaker 3>that I ever did. I did that for a little

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<v Speaker 3>while and I realized it was bad. So I went

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<v Speaker 3>and I vowed to not get in a relationship for

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<v Speaker 3>a year, like one full year, no relationship. I would date,

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<v Speaker 3>but there was gonna be nobody who I said, you're

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<v Speaker 3>my girlfriend, that's it, and I needed that full That's.

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<v Speaker 2>A pretty hard it's smart, but that's a pretty hard

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<v Speaker 2>line in the sand because then you're dating with only

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<v Speaker 2>sort of one foot in. That's tough on them.

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely is absolutely, But I think if you're transparent about it,

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<v Speaker 3>you know it can work.

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<v Speaker 1>You just the word is I'm not ready.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, But a lot of times what we're trying to

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<v Speaker 2>do when we run back out there is to replace

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<v Speaker 2>the routine, replace the comfort. This is who I talk

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<v Speaker 2>to every day, and so you have to be ready.

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<v Speaker 2>I always tell people you have to get to a

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<v Speaker 2>point where you go twenty four straight hours without thinking

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<v Speaker 2>about the last person with anything that gives you any

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<v Speaker 2>sort of emotion strong either way, if you get over

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<v Speaker 2>that one day, like I didn't really think of them,

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<v Speaker 2>they don't make me mad, they din't can be sided

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<v Speaker 2>and miss them. That is the biggest step to getting

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<v Speaker 2>over the hump, and that could take a long time.

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<v Speaker 2>After twenty years, I assume it takes forever, especially because

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<v Speaker 2>you probably have to still be in contact with your

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<v Speaker 2>ex and you're co parenting. I don't know if you're

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<v Speaker 2>in court. I don't know what's happening with the divorce,

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<v Speaker 2>but it's complicated.

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<v Speaker 1>I used anger. That's what made it for me.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean I had to be angry for a while

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<v Speaker 3>and have zero forgiveness and just be mad.

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<v Speaker 1>That was the only way I could draw that line.

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<v Speaker 3>And that happens a lot, and that was the only

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<v Speaker 3>thing I could do. It was the only way I

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<v Speaker 3>could heal. I eventually got over that, but it started

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<v Speaker 3>with that.

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<v Speaker 2>The question I asked people when they got divorced is

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<v Speaker 2>not why did you get divorced? I don't care about that.

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<v Speaker 2>I say, when did you know it wasn't going to

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<v Speaker 2>last forever? Was it in year twenty? Was it that

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<v Speaker 2>late that you're like this might not last forever?

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<v Speaker 3>It was pretty shocking? Yeah, I mean for me it was.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean we got divorced at twenty. It was more

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<v Speaker 3>like you're eighteen nineteen. Yeah, I was pretty I was

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<v Speaker 3>pretty shocked.

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<v Speaker 2>That's a long way to go down the road. Mentally, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>physically emotionally thinking this part of my life is fine.

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<v Speaker 2>I have my wife and my family, and this is it.

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<v Speaker 2>I never have to think about going back out there again.

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<v Speaker 3>It's why I started with the conversation about how it

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<v Speaker 3>hit me like a ton of bricks and I didn't

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<v Speaker 3>think I would ever because I I wasn't ready for it.

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<v Speaker 3>There's some people that are in miserable marriages. Yeah, pairing

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<v Speaker 3>for it for ten years. A lot of people are

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<v Speaker 3>counting down till the youngest is eighteen. Yes, I believe me.

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<v Speaker 3>I know people that are doing that right un till

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<v Speaker 3>they're out of the house. Yeah, we can, we can

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<v Speaker 3>go separate ways.

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<v Speaker 2>How did you resist your friends or especially your friends wives,

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<v Speaker 2>from saying I've got somebody for you, like trying to

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<v Speaker 2>immediately find somebody for you. Did that happen a lot

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<v Speaker 2>or people.

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<v Speaker 3>Just kind of distance themselves, Yeah, or I got some Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>I've got somebody that you can meet. Actually, that did

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<v Speaker 3>get me into a relationship for a little while in

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<v Speaker 3>the community I lived in California. That was that codependent

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<v Speaker 3>thing that I wasn't ready for kind of deals. So

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<v Speaker 3>I did kind of fall into that comfort trap for

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<v Speaker 3>a little while. And then that was a pretty harsh

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<v Speaker 3>breakup and was precipitated my time alone.

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<v Speaker 1>That was so necessary.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's not even about people thinking can I love again?

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<v Speaker 2>It's people thinking can I trust again?

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<v Speaker 1>And that is the thing that was me.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's a lot of people. Once that is broken,

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<v Speaker 2>it's really it takes a long time and you and

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<v Speaker 2>and even that impedes a new relationship because you're not

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<v Speaker 2>even prepared to go, And then that's unfair to that

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<v Speaker 2>person that like, I don't trust you and has nothing

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<v Speaker 2>to do with you. I don't trust me, I don't

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<v Speaker 2>trust the situation. I don't want to get hurt again.

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<v Speaker 2>And so you're dating with these restrictions on it just

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<v Speaker 2>it's hard.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, the other thing about trust is trust is insecurity sometimes.

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<v Speaker 3>So I was I was very insecure about you know,

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<v Speaker 3>is this person gonna be faithful?

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<v Speaker 1>What are they gonna be like?

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<v Speaker 3>And all those kinds of things, And I had to

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<v Speaker 3>get to the point where it didn't the outcome didn't

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<v Speaker 3>matter because I'm gonna be fine.

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<v Speaker 1>That's what you have to get to. You trust is

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of Am I gonna be okay? If it

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<v Speaker 1>goes that way? Right? Like if it goes sour? Am

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<v Speaker 1>I gonna be all right?

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<v Speaker 3>You really do trust more if you realize that if

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<v Speaker 3>you're comfortable and know that you've already you've already been

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<v Speaker 3>through the worst thing you could possibly go through, So

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<v Speaker 3>everything else is just relative scales of that, and I'm

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<v Speaker 3>gonna be fine. It would have hurt, right, but I'm

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<v Speaker 3>gonna be fine. Even my new wife, like it's amazing

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<v Speaker 3>right now, But if someday it's not like this time,

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<v Speaker 3>I would be okay. I don't want to get though.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. See, that is the thing. It's a little bit

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<v Speaker 2>of an advantage that the women have is the women

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<v Speaker 2>early on have more at a younger age, more crushes,

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<v Speaker 2>more I like this boy, and they get their heart

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<v Speaker 2>broken more early. Men really don't. And then when it

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<v Speaker 2>goes bad, it goes bad for the men, but they

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<v Speaker 2>don't build that up the way the women do. The

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<v Speaker 2>women kind of expect it to go bad a little bit.

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<v Speaker 2>For the men. It is a total blind side, especially

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<v Speaker 2>if there's things like in fidelity or like it is

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<v Speaker 2>just not something you're mentally prepared for that. I think

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<v Speaker 2>women do prepare for that a little bit better so

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<v Speaker 2>when it happens to a guy. And also generally when

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<v Speaker 2>a man his friends scatter, it's not like you have

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<v Speaker 2>the support group like women have, like let's go away

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<v Speaker 2>for the weekend, and guys suck and they sort of rally.

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<v Speaker 2>Men are sort of left to find this on their own.

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<v Speaker 2>It's hard to talk about. It's hard to be vulnerable.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't want to watch around with the broken heart.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't want to, you know, lead with Ti'm hurt.

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<v Speaker 2>You don't want to be on a first date talking

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<v Speaker 2>about your ex and so there's not a lot of

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<v Speaker 2>outlets besides therapy. And that's a different and drink. And

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<v Speaker 2>I was just about that's so funny A brought that.

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<v Speaker 2>I was like, what I did? What was your vibe?

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<v Speaker 2>I was going to be like as a video games

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<v Speaker 2>that you're drinking?

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<v Speaker 1>I drank.

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<v Speaker 2>I what I would do in Irish boy from Massachusetts,

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<v Speaker 2>quite Irish, Scottish, We'll go to that.

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<v Speaker 3>So what I would do is I couldn't be home alone,

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<v Speaker 3>so I would plan something. I would right after work.

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<v Speaker 3>I would plan to meet friends. I would plan to

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<v Speaker 3>go to the golf course. I would plan to do

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<v Speaker 3>something every night, and every single time it involved alcohol.

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<v Speaker 1>Like I had to be out.

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<v Speaker 3>I couldn't be home with my own thoughts alone, So

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<v Speaker 3>I was always planning on being out. Yeah, and I

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<v Speaker 3>look back and I drank a lot. What was your

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<v Speaker 3>drinking like before though? During marriage?

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<v Speaker 2>Radically different from them.

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<v Speaker 3>It was you know, social social drinking. It wasn't like

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<v Speaker 3>I drank every night or all the time, but it

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<v Speaker 3>was like heavy drink socially. So it was easy for

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<v Speaker 3>it to go even to another level when that social

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<v Speaker 3>became every day right right, all right.

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<v Speaker 2>I gotta take a quick break because we gotta pay

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<v Speaker 2>for booze around here. I'm Dennis Williams. He's from the

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<v Speaker 2>Back nine podcast. I'm going to get into how this

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<v Speaker 2>turn in the corner. But I took a break. We

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<v Speaker 2>will be back right after this. And we are back.

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<v Speaker 2>So you're dating you? Do you spend some time alone?

347
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<v Speaker 2>What is the metric for? Okay? I think I'm okay.

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<v Speaker 2>Now when do I come out of the cave? Did you?

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<v Speaker 3>I don't think there is one. So I was fully

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<v Speaker 3>not expecting to get in another serious relationship when I

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<v Speaker 3>met my current wife or back. In fact, I figured

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<v Speaker 3>I would be single forever, Like I didn't want to

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<v Speaker 3>get married again. I really didn't. It was it was

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<v Speaker 3>actually my mantra. I'm like, I don't know, I don't

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<v Speaker 3>it's sort of like what you said on our show.

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<v Speaker 3>I don't see a reason for it, Like I don't

357
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<v Speaker 3>need to get married.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of divorce people. The fantasy's gone right happily,

359
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<v Speaker 2>A rafter's gone.

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<v Speaker 1>Right right right.

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<v Speaker 3>So I had no intention, and you know, I met

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<v Speaker 3>this amazing woman who's become my best friend and somebody.

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<v Speaker 3>What it came down to for me, why I decided

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<v Speaker 3>to finally get married, to jump ahead, and why I

365
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<v Speaker 3>turned the corner was because when you vow to be

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<v Speaker 3>with somebody, the other vows were broken. Right when you

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<v Speaker 3>vow to be it takes the relationship to another level.

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<v Speaker 3>And I was right about that. I wasn't sure, and

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<v Speaker 3>it's only been a couple of months, but I could

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<v Speaker 3>tell right away that it changed things in a positive way.

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<v Speaker 3>Not that we couldn't have gone through life like the

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<v Speaker 3>way we were happy and together. Plenty of people do it,

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<v Speaker 3>but for me, a little bit of it is faith

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<v Speaker 3>and spirituality. It was this momentary opportunity to tell the world,

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<v Speaker 3>this is the person I want to be with, and

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<v Speaker 3>to some respects, it was to also say to my kids,

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<v Speaker 3>this is the person I want to be with, not

378
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<v Speaker 3>your mom, like even though that ship is sailed, Like

379
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<v Speaker 3>the found somebody that supersedes her in my life, and

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<v Speaker 3>I need to tell the world that.

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<v Speaker 1>So that was something. It's all it all works.

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<v Speaker 2>Together, if that makes sense. Was not to pry On,

383
00:17:10.680 --> 00:17:13.839
<v Speaker 2>that was your ex wife dating. She's married, she's remarried,

384
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<v Speaker 2>but was she during during the time of your drinking

385
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<v Speaker 2>in alone time, were you monitoring what she was doing or.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure matter, it didn't matter. I'm sure she was. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm sure she was.

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<v Speaker 2>So was the first serious relationship you came when you

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<v Speaker 2>when you, like Andy dufran came out of solitary confinement

390
00:17:32.519 --> 00:17:34.359
<v Speaker 2>and was that is that your wife? No?

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<v Speaker 3>No, no, no, okay, I actually lived with somebody else

392
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<v Speaker 3>for a little while.

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<v Speaker 2>So you between you come out of that and you're like, okay,

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<v Speaker 2>mentally I'm ready to start dating again. How quickly do

395
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<v Speaker 2>you share the I went through this, I don't know

396
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<v Speaker 2>if I trust, Like, are you open.

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<v Speaker 3>About it when you're ready to start doing I'm open.

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<v Speaker 3>I'm open to it. And what I found was, you know,

399
00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:58.759
<v Speaker 3>nobody cared. They wanted to be in a relationship and

400
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<v Speaker 3>they wanted to I found that they wanted to fix

401
00:18:03.279 --> 00:18:06.759
<v Speaker 3>it for me. Yeah, they wanted to fix me and

402
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<v Speaker 3>fix it, and I look, I was like a I

403
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<v Speaker 3>was like a project.

404
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<v Speaker 2>Well a lot of times because the women have gone

405
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<v Speaker 2>through it, they do know a lot better and they

406
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<v Speaker 2>want you to be if you're open about the women

407
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<v Speaker 2>are like, we know you guys are screwed up, if

408
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<v Speaker 2>you know, and you kind of tell us how we

409
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<v Speaker 2>can work around anything. Women are very forgiving and they're

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<v Speaker 2>very like you said, they're willing to fix what is broken.

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<v Speaker 2>If you're like, listen, I'm gonna have trouble trusting or

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<v Speaker 2>I went through this. I drank a lot, I had

413
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<v Speaker 2>to heal and I had to do that. They like that.

414
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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it's vulnerable too, so it gives them power. Like

415
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<v Speaker 3>I was very vulnerable, Like that was the problem too,

416
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<v Speaker 3>So I was.

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<v Speaker 1>I was.

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<v Speaker 3>I put up with a lot of things that I

419
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<v Speaker 3>shouldn't have. I was a little bit submissive at the

420
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<v Speaker 3>time because I hadn't figured it out. Does that make sense?

421
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<v Speaker 3>I was really Yeah, I was really in a dark place.

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<v Speaker 2>I know I've been there. People who listen to this podcast,

423
00:18:58.799 --> 00:19:01.440
<v Speaker 2>they know about my sort of estrangement from my family

424
00:19:02.119 --> 00:19:05.799
<v Speaker 2>and dead to Me podcasts and a stranger podcast Gosten

425
00:19:06.279 --> 00:19:09.440
<v Speaker 2>go listen to that one. And I used to be

426
00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:12.039
<v Speaker 2>deeply ashamed of that because people do not necessarily want

427
00:19:12.039 --> 00:19:14.160
<v Speaker 2>to get into a relationship with somebody who doesn't have

428
00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:16.559
<v Speaker 2>a close relationship with their family. Your dad is sitting

429
00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:18.799
<v Speaker 2>fifteen feet away from you, You're not one of those people.

430
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:21.519
<v Speaker 2>And I used to just hide it. I used to

431
00:19:21.559 --> 00:19:23.240
<v Speaker 2>just been like, oh, I guess I talked to my

432
00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.519
<v Speaker 2>mom whatever. And now I lead with it because it

433
00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:27.960
<v Speaker 2>is such a big part of me and who I am,

434
00:19:28.039 --> 00:19:30.200
<v Speaker 2>and at my vulnert, I'm like, you need to know

435
00:19:30.680 --> 00:19:33.119
<v Speaker 2>so I don't Seven months down the road, it's Christmas

436
00:19:33.119 --> 00:19:34.519
<v Speaker 2>time and you're like, are we going to see your family?

437
00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:35.680
<v Speaker 2>And I'm like, actually, I haven't talked to him in

438
00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:39.119
<v Speaker 2>fourteen years. They don't want that right, And I'm not

439
00:19:39.160 --> 00:19:43.279
<v Speaker 2>ashamed of it anymore. I'm not ashamed to tell the

440
00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:48.000
<v Speaker 2>woman i'm dating that this matters to me, that I

441
00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:50.839
<v Speaker 2>have this part of me that is I don't even

442
00:19:50.839 --> 00:19:54.240
<v Speaker 2>know it's healing, but it is painful. I think they

443
00:19:54.519 --> 00:19:56.720
<v Speaker 2>women like that more. And you said, when you came

444
00:19:56.759 --> 00:19:58.720
<v Speaker 2>out of there and you were forty seven years old,

445
00:19:58.759 --> 00:20:01.519
<v Speaker 2>and you're you're probably forty seven, you're always thinking I'm

446
00:20:01.559 --> 00:20:04.119
<v Speaker 2>almost fifty. They don't think of it that way. They

447
00:20:04.119 --> 00:20:06.319
<v Speaker 2>think of as your mid forties, but you're thinking almost

448
00:20:06.359 --> 00:20:09.240
<v Speaker 2>fifty and almost fifty. You're like, oh my god, who's

449
00:20:09.240 --> 00:20:11.039
<v Speaker 2>going to date that. I get a discount of Denny's.

450
00:20:11.079 --> 00:20:13.680
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you know, that's kind of it. You go

451
00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:15.720
<v Speaker 2>through relationships so you live with somebody your dead. When

452
00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:19.440
<v Speaker 2>is it that got your hope back? Right? Getting in

453
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:21.039
<v Speaker 2>a relationship where I don't know if you said I

454
00:20:21.079 --> 00:20:22.680
<v Speaker 2>love you or any of that stuff, but you began

455
00:20:22.720 --> 00:20:26.240
<v Speaker 2>to trust again, the hope kicked in. Do you remember

456
00:20:26.279 --> 00:20:30.200
<v Speaker 2>that moment where you're no longer afraid that this could

457
00:20:30.279 --> 00:20:30.960
<v Speaker 2>work out?

458
00:20:32.119 --> 00:20:35.640
<v Speaker 3>I think it was the realization that I could be

459
00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:41.079
<v Speaker 3>like with somebody regularly all the time and relatively healthy.

460
00:20:41.160 --> 00:20:44.799
<v Speaker 3>I still in that relationship, I still wasn't healthy. I

461
00:20:44.839 --> 00:20:47.359
<v Speaker 3>hadn't hadn't done the work, I hadn't spent time alone.

462
00:20:47.480 --> 00:20:50.079
<v Speaker 3>So there was no light bulb moment. The light bulb

463
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.759
<v Speaker 3>moment came on after that. It really did when I

464
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.759
<v Speaker 3>when I realized, you know, you talk about family, and

465
00:20:58.960 --> 00:21:02.000
<v Speaker 3>family is also your community, your friends that you lean on.

466
00:21:02.119 --> 00:21:04.880
<v Speaker 3>And I mean our podcast was born from that time.

467
00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:08.400
<v Speaker 3>It was born from me talking to Josh, my podcast partner,

468
00:21:08.920 --> 00:21:11.759
<v Speaker 3>and hit him and I helping each other through that

469
00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.440
<v Speaker 3>period and realizing that we were both talking about stuff

470
00:21:14.440 --> 00:21:15.559
<v Speaker 3>that guys don't talk about.

471
00:21:15.720 --> 00:21:15.880
<v Speaker 2>Right.

472
00:21:16.759 --> 00:21:19.000
<v Speaker 3>So that's really the light bulb moment for me was

473
00:21:19.039 --> 00:21:21.519
<v Speaker 3>realizing that Okay, I can talk about this stuff. I

474
00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:24.200
<v Speaker 3>can get through it, and I'm gonna be stronger on

475
00:21:24.200 --> 00:21:24.920
<v Speaker 3>the other side.

476
00:21:25.200 --> 00:21:29.039
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and you had to get sober a little bit

477
00:21:29.079 --> 00:21:31.319
<v Speaker 2>to do that. You had to just slow down. So

478
00:21:31.400 --> 00:21:34.079
<v Speaker 2>did the the awakening happen and the drinking slow down

479
00:21:34.160 --> 00:21:36.160
<v Speaker 2>or the drinking slowed down and the awakening happened.

480
00:21:37.480 --> 00:21:41.039
<v Speaker 3>I would say the awakening happened and the drinking slowed down.

481
00:21:41.319 --> 00:21:41.519
<v Speaker 2>You know.

482
00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:45.440
<v Speaker 3>A little of that also became the realization that, you know,

483
00:21:45.559 --> 00:21:49.680
<v Speaker 3>I'm pretty health conscious now. You get in your fifties

484
00:21:49.720 --> 00:21:51.839
<v Speaker 3>and you're like, i gotta start taking better care of myself.

485
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:54.119
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna be around here for my kids and everything else. So,

486
00:21:55.720 --> 00:21:57.079
<v Speaker 3>you know, it was it was a little bit of

487
00:21:57.079 --> 00:21:59.000
<v Speaker 3>that too. It was a little bit of health consciousness.

488
00:21:59.039 --> 00:22:00.640
<v Speaker 2>How old were your kids when you got divorced.

489
00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:06.319
<v Speaker 1>They were nineteen and fifteen, about to turn sixteen.

490
00:22:06.359 --> 00:22:09.160
<v Speaker 2>Okay, so they're they're aware of what you're going through.

491
00:22:09.200 --> 00:22:12.279
<v Speaker 2>So are they like, Dad, you got a date or

492
00:22:12.720 --> 00:22:14.400
<v Speaker 2>get or they don't want to?

493
00:22:14.799 --> 00:22:20.039
<v Speaker 3>Amazingly supportive. My oldest daughter was a freshman at U.

494
00:22:20.119 --> 00:22:23.640
<v Speaker 3>See Santa Barbara and I have a very vivid recollection

495
00:22:24.319 --> 00:22:27.279
<v Speaker 3>of going down and if you know, California. We were

496
00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:30.000
<v Speaker 3>on State Street in Santa Barbara, and she took Dad

497
00:22:30.119 --> 00:22:35.799
<v Speaker 3>shopping to show them the cool clothes wide sidewalks into Yeah.

498
00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:37.039
<v Speaker 1>That I needed to wear. She bought me.

499
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:40.000
<v Speaker 3>She helped me buy a she's a college because she

500
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:43.160
<v Speaker 3>didn't buy it. She helped me pick out a cool outfit.

501
00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:45.240
<v Speaker 3>I think I still have the jean jacket, yeah, but

502
00:22:45.319 --> 00:22:47.559
<v Speaker 3>she helped me pick out. She was she was on

503
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:49.599
<v Speaker 3>board with getting Dad back out on the on the

504
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:51.200
<v Speaker 3>scene and helpful to that.

505
00:22:51.759 --> 00:22:53.519
<v Speaker 2>First time I went to you see Santa Barbara, I

506
00:22:53.519 --> 00:22:54.640
<v Speaker 2>was like, I'm so glad I didn't go here. I

507
00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:56.039
<v Speaker 2>would have failed out in like two seconds.

508
00:22:56.119 --> 00:22:57.519
<v Speaker 1>Can I tell you that was insane?

509
00:22:57.640 --> 00:22:59.279
<v Speaker 3>Can I tell you that when I took her there,

510
00:22:59.400 --> 00:23:02.160
<v Speaker 3>I said, thank god my parents didn' show me this.

511
00:23:02.240 --> 00:23:04.440
<v Speaker 3>I would have done anything I could possibly do to

512
00:23:04.440 --> 00:23:06.039
<v Speaker 3>get into school. I would have gone to the community

513
00:23:06.039 --> 00:23:08.960
<v Speaker 3>college beforehand. I would have done whatever it took to

514
00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:12.119
<v Speaker 3>get into school. Anybody who ever has visited at school

515
00:23:12.119 --> 00:23:12.759
<v Speaker 3>has to want to go there.

516
00:23:13.160 --> 00:23:16.960
<v Speaker 2>Right on the water, girls are in bikinis. It's insane.

517
00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:19.880
<v Speaker 1>It's an insane place. And if you saw where if

518
00:23:19.920 --> 00:23:22.119
<v Speaker 1>you saw where she lived, her junior and your senior year.

519
00:23:22.200 --> 00:23:25.440
<v Speaker 3>The sorority houses that they they owned that are like,

520
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:29.440
<v Speaker 3>you know, ten million dollar properties and they're each paying

521
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:32.039
<v Speaker 3>nine hundred dollars is sleep nine hundred dollars a month

522
00:23:32.039 --> 00:23:32.920
<v Speaker 3>to sleep in a garage.

523
00:23:32.960 --> 00:23:34.920
<v Speaker 1>And I have three other girls. It's crazy.

524
00:23:35.440 --> 00:23:39.599
<v Speaker 2>Shout out you see Santa Barbara Gauchos or whoever you are.

525
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:42.240
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, the Gauchos as good job.

526
00:23:44.119 --> 00:23:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Tell me about your How do you you get out

527
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:49.480
<v Speaker 2>a couple of relationships? You're then back out single again,

528
00:23:50.079 --> 00:23:52.400
<v Speaker 2>but you are different because you're more confident. You're like, Okay,

529
00:23:52.559 --> 00:23:55.599
<v Speaker 2>eventually somebody will work out. So you're in a space

530
00:23:55.680 --> 00:24:00.519
<v Speaker 2>now or an environment confidence wise and hope wise that

531
00:24:00.599 --> 00:24:04.079
<v Speaker 2>your current wife can walk into that. Yeah, how did

532
00:24:04.119 --> 00:24:04.559
<v Speaker 2>that happen?

533
00:24:06.039 --> 00:24:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Random meeting down in South Florida.

534
00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:10.160
<v Speaker 3>I was here during COVID on business in West Palm

535
00:24:10.200 --> 00:24:13.599
<v Speaker 3>Beach and I knew her. I had known about her

536
00:24:13.960 --> 00:24:19.079
<v Speaker 3>she's mutual friends for a while, and I knew she

537
00:24:19.119 --> 00:24:21.799
<v Speaker 3>lived in It's kind of serendipity. I was in Delray

538
00:24:21.839 --> 00:24:25.640
<v Speaker 3>Beach at a hotel Delray Beach, Florida, and I knew

539
00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:27.519
<v Speaker 3>she lived in South Florida. I thought she lived closer

540
00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:31.559
<v Speaker 3>to Lauderdale. She was a mile from my hotel, and

541
00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:33.480
<v Speaker 3>I messaged her to tell me a little bit about

542
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:35.960
<v Speaker 3>South Florida. I'm thinking of moving from California. My full

543
00:24:36.000 --> 00:24:37.880
<v Speaker 3>family's on the East Coast. I'm getting out of California.

544
00:24:37.880 --> 00:24:40.039
<v Speaker 3>I want to move to Florida. I'm done with California.

545
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:42.400
<v Speaker 3>Tell me a little bit about South Florida. I know

546
00:24:42.440 --> 00:24:45.359
<v Speaker 3>Central Florida, know other parts of the state. So we

547
00:24:45.400 --> 00:24:51.359
<v Speaker 3>meet out at a restaurant in Delray and it's still COVID,

548
00:24:51.440 --> 00:24:55.200
<v Speaker 3>so it's kind of quiet, and we spent five hours

549
00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:58.000
<v Speaker 3>having wine and laughing, and I'm like, I'm about to

550
00:24:58.279 --> 00:25:00.599
<v Speaker 3>I'm supposed to schedule a flight for the next I'm like,

551
00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:03.119
<v Speaker 3>i gotta stay one more day. So I stay one

552
00:25:03.119 --> 00:25:04.720
<v Speaker 3>more night. We go out to kind of on a

553
00:25:04.720 --> 00:25:07.799
<v Speaker 3>more traditional date, have a blast. I will tell you

554
00:25:08.359 --> 00:25:11.599
<v Speaker 3>what I knew right away was you don't know right away.

555
00:25:11.599 --> 00:25:13.559
<v Speaker 3>I don't know that I believe in this whole lot.

556
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:15.480
<v Speaker 3>I believe it lust it first site. I don't believe

557
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:17.480
<v Speaker 3>in love it first sight. Here's what I do believe in.

558
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:20.839
<v Speaker 3>I believe a sense of humor. Match is immediate, and

559
00:25:21.279 --> 00:25:23.720
<v Speaker 3>if you can laugh with somebody non stop for two

560
00:25:23.759 --> 00:25:25.480
<v Speaker 3>days and have.

561
00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:27.920
<v Speaker 1>The same sort of silly sense of humor.

562
00:25:28.000 --> 00:25:30.720
<v Speaker 3>Then you're onto something and the rest of it sort

563
00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.960
<v Speaker 3>of like falls into place. But the match for me

564
00:25:34.039 --> 00:25:36.240
<v Speaker 3>has always been do you have the same humor I have?

565
00:25:36.440 --> 00:25:37.240
<v Speaker 2>Was she divorce?

566
00:25:37.759 --> 00:25:40.599
<v Speaker 3>Yes, she was married only for a couple of years,

567
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:42.640
<v Speaker 3>but she's been with the guy that she was married

568
00:25:43.319 --> 00:25:45.079
<v Speaker 3>for like six years.

569
00:25:45.319 --> 00:25:49.160
<v Speaker 2>So at this point, though, because you've had these healing

570
00:25:49.880 --> 00:25:53.240
<v Speaker 2>relationships in between, you're not necessarily you can focus on

571
00:25:53.319 --> 00:25:55.799
<v Speaker 2>laughing and having fun or whatever. You're not so like leading.

572
00:25:55.920 --> 00:25:57.400
<v Speaker 2>You're not leading with the pain anymore.

573
00:25:57.559 --> 00:26:01.000
<v Speaker 3>No, not at all to the point where again I

574
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:04.039
<v Speaker 3>I it was really just starting out as like a

575
00:26:04.079 --> 00:26:06.839
<v Speaker 3>fun friendship relationship. Let's just have a good time and

576
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:10.480
<v Speaker 3>see where this goes. And then the connection just got

577
00:26:10.519 --> 00:26:13.359
<v Speaker 3>stronger and stronger and stronger. But it was because it

578
00:26:13.400 --> 00:26:17.359
<v Speaker 3>was really more about just like fitting together and having fun.

579
00:26:18.240 --> 00:26:20.400
<v Speaker 2>And so you leave the second day, you have the

580
00:26:20.400 --> 00:26:22.839
<v Speaker 2>second day, and then you leave town. When do you

581
00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:25.119
<v Speaker 2>start thinking I need to get back there to see

582
00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:27.319
<v Speaker 2>her again? Is it when you're on a plane out.

583
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:29.519
<v Speaker 1>Well, it's a really good story.

584
00:26:29.559 --> 00:26:32.319
<v Speaker 3>Actually I went to I as part of still finding

585
00:26:32.359 --> 00:26:35.000
<v Speaker 3>myself I had scheduled a trip to Saint John in

586
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:36.319
<v Speaker 3>the US Virgin Islands.

587
00:26:36.000 --> 00:26:39.880
<v Speaker 1>For three weeks. Wow, And I had a place there.

588
00:26:40.039 --> 00:26:42.640
<v Speaker 3>And when I went there, my family was there hanging

589
00:26:42.680 --> 00:26:44.599
<v Speaker 3>out with me for a week. And then I knew

590
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:47.519
<v Speaker 3>I was going to spend the last week alone. And

591
00:26:47.640 --> 00:26:49.240
<v Speaker 3>rather than spend it alone, I said, do you want

592
00:26:49.240 --> 00:26:50.799
<v Speaker 3>to it's COVID, you want to come out and just

593
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:53.240
<v Speaker 3>you got to get a test and just nobody's here, come,

594
00:26:53.319 --> 00:26:57.440
<v Speaker 3>come hang out. And she came planning on being there

595
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:00.359
<v Speaker 3>for three days, and she changed her flight twice and

596
00:27:00.400 --> 00:27:03.160
<v Speaker 3>stayed for a week, and then I flew back.

597
00:27:03.000 --> 00:27:04.519
<v Speaker 2>So you'dn't eve been out twice. And then she was

598
00:27:04.519 --> 00:27:06.160
<v Speaker 2>willing to travel. Yeah, good for her.

599
00:27:06.400 --> 00:27:09.279
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, see ladies, starting it, Yes, get on the damn plane,

600
00:27:09.319 --> 00:27:09.599
<v Speaker 3>start it.

601
00:27:09.640 --> 00:27:11.880
<v Speaker 1>Yes, plenty of time to say no.

602
00:27:13.759 --> 00:27:16.799
<v Speaker 3>Then, So the next part of it was I was

603
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:18.839
<v Speaker 3>supposed to go back to California for New Year's and

604
00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:20.839
<v Speaker 3>I came down to Delray Beach for New Year's rere

605
00:27:20.839 --> 00:27:22.359
<v Speaker 3>you'ro out on my trip, And then count of the

606
00:27:22.400 --> 00:27:23.480
<v Speaker 3>rest was history that year.

607
00:27:24.440 --> 00:27:26.440
<v Speaker 2>And when did you start to change in your mind?

608
00:27:26.559 --> 00:27:28.319
<v Speaker 2>I might be open to getting married.

609
00:27:28.519 --> 00:27:30.680
<v Speaker 3>That took a while, so that took a few couple

610
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:35.440
<v Speaker 3>of years. After that, it was sort of realizing that

611
00:27:35.640 --> 00:27:38.119
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to, like all the things I said before,

612
00:27:38.240 --> 00:27:41.599
<v Speaker 3>I wanted to solidify this as more than just my girlfriend.

613
00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:43.279
<v Speaker 2>I say that all the time. There needs to be

614
00:27:43.319 --> 00:27:47.079
<v Speaker 2>another term, you know. I say that like I want somebody,

615
00:27:47.920 --> 00:27:49.359
<v Speaker 2>because a lot of people don't necessarily want to get

616
00:27:49.359 --> 00:27:51.240
<v Speaker 2>married again, but I want to be like, listen, I

617
00:27:51.319 --> 00:27:53.720
<v Speaker 2>want a term that separates you from all of the

618
00:27:53.799 --> 00:27:57.880
<v Speaker 2>other girlfriends besides fiance, besides wife. That is like, you're

619
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:00.400
<v Speaker 2>the one. I don't know what that term as yet.

620
00:28:00.440 --> 00:28:02.279
<v Speaker 2>I would say just like like, that's the girl, and

621
00:28:02.319 --> 00:28:04.920
<v Speaker 2>people know what that means. But societally, we need to

622
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:06.559
<v Speaker 2>come up with a term that we don't want to

623
00:28:06.599 --> 00:28:07.559
<v Speaker 2>get married but we are in.

624
00:28:08.000 --> 00:28:11.599
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, I don't disagree with you, but I would also say,

625
00:28:11.720 --> 00:28:15.640
<v Speaker 3>reflect on if marriage meant something to you at one point,

626
00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:18.240
<v Speaker 3>why did it mean something when you were with that

627
00:28:18.279 --> 00:28:20.400
<v Speaker 3>person and it doesn't mean something to you when you're

628
00:28:20.400 --> 00:28:21.559
<v Speaker 3>with somebody better.

629
00:28:21.440 --> 00:28:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Well, I could see, yeah, I can know.

630
00:28:22.880 --> 00:28:23.440
<v Speaker 1>What I mean that.

631
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:25.599
<v Speaker 3>That to me is like, at one point it meant

632
00:28:25.640 --> 00:28:27.960
<v Speaker 3>something to you to make that commitment and say that

633
00:28:28.000 --> 00:28:30.160
<v Speaker 3>in front of the world and your friends. Yeah, then

634
00:28:30.200 --> 00:28:31.640
<v Speaker 3>why wouldn't you do it again?

635
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.640
<v Speaker 1>If you really do believe in this person what you have.

636
00:28:34.839 --> 00:28:36.759
<v Speaker 2>Totally agree with you. But I've never been married. Yeah,

637
00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:38.839
<v Speaker 2>but the But that's why I do have the hope.

638
00:28:38.920 --> 00:28:40.880
<v Speaker 2>Like the first time I say it, it's going to

639
00:28:40.920 --> 00:28:43.400
<v Speaker 2>be unique. Like a lot of times I've been to

640
00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:48.000
<v Speaker 2>like third marriage weddings and she's wearing the whole same

641
00:28:48.079 --> 00:28:50.160
<v Speaker 2>dress and she's pretaring the first dud didn't happen or whatever,

642
00:28:50.200 --> 00:28:52.400
<v Speaker 2>and I'm like, good, I guess God bless her. She

643
00:28:52.400 --> 00:28:54.079
<v Speaker 2>could do whatever she wants and whatever works for them

644
00:28:54.200 --> 00:28:57.440
<v Speaker 2>or whatever she did. She was she open it because

645
00:28:57.440 --> 00:28:59.359
<v Speaker 2>she was divorced, but she was only married a short time.

646
00:28:59.440 --> 00:29:01.559
<v Speaker 2>Was she more like we need to get married than she.

647
00:29:01.480 --> 00:29:02.240
<v Speaker 1>Never said it?

648
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:03.319
<v Speaker 2>Oh?

649
00:29:03.359 --> 00:29:06.119
<v Speaker 3>And I love that she never asked me. She never

650
00:29:06.200 --> 00:29:08.759
<v Speaker 3>thought that I would ask. And I went on a

651
00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:11.559
<v Speaker 3>mission to surprise her. I had had recon plan on

652
00:29:11.640 --> 00:29:13.920
<v Speaker 3>what kind of rings she would like, never went into

653
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:16.480
<v Speaker 3>a ring store with her. I went a total recon plan.

654
00:29:17.359 --> 00:29:19.119
<v Speaker 3>People were talking to her and they told me what

655
00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:23.359
<v Speaker 3>she'd like. She was completely surprised. I was on a

656
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:25.039
<v Speaker 3>mission to do that too, and I.

657
00:29:25.000 --> 00:29:29.160
<v Speaker 2>You were completely confident she was gonna say yes, there.

658
00:29:29.279 --> 00:29:31.200
<v Speaker 3>I will tell you that there was like a one

659
00:29:31.240 --> 00:29:33.799
<v Speaker 3>percent chance that I thought she'd be like, oh no,

660
00:29:33.920 --> 00:29:36.079
<v Speaker 3>we're not ready. There was a little piece of me

661
00:29:36.119 --> 00:29:38.160
<v Speaker 3>which actually made it even more exciting for me.

662
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:39.240
<v Speaker 1>There was a little piece of.

663
00:29:39.559 --> 00:29:41.240
<v Speaker 2>Not being You don't want her to be like, oh,

664
00:29:41.279 --> 00:29:43.400
<v Speaker 2>I know why we're going to Paris, right, you don't

665
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:44.960
<v Speaker 2>want I I just yeah.

666
00:29:44.799 --> 00:29:47.079
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I know, I know why. Oh that's the ring

667
00:29:47.119 --> 00:29:48.920
<v Speaker 1>I want, like, let's go ring shopping.

668
00:29:50.279 --> 00:29:51.960
<v Speaker 2>I know that one percent chance is good that I

669
00:29:52.039 --> 00:29:53.720
<v Speaker 2>was telling her the juice is worth the squeeze.

670
00:29:53.839 --> 00:29:54.480
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, there you go.

671
00:29:56.319 --> 00:29:58.839
<v Speaker 2>One thing then that you can tell the men out

672
00:29:58.880 --> 00:30:01.519
<v Speaker 2>there who are going through do this, that they should

673
00:30:01.519 --> 00:30:04.640
<v Speaker 2>do to you know, get their groove back? Is it?

674
00:30:04.720 --> 00:30:06.960
<v Speaker 2>Take take the time? Is that the number one?

675
00:30:07.160 --> 00:30:09.200
<v Speaker 3>The number one thing is if you, if you, if

676
00:30:09.240 --> 00:30:12.640
<v Speaker 3>you get divorced or you have a really bad breakup,

677
00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:14.319
<v Speaker 3>learn how to be alone.

678
00:30:14.519 --> 00:30:17.400
<v Speaker 2>It's hard, it's maddening because you're like, I just want

679
00:30:17.400 --> 00:30:19.200
<v Speaker 2>this part of my life to be over. It is low.

680
00:30:19.240 --> 00:30:21.839
<v Speaker 3>It's the worst, right right, And you'll go through nights

681
00:30:21.880 --> 00:30:24.400
<v Speaker 3>of not sleeping and you'll find all of these things

682
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:28.359
<v Speaker 3>that are so difficult, but fight through it because I

683
00:30:28.400 --> 00:30:30.680
<v Speaker 3>thought I would never There were nights when I was like,

684
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:32.640
<v Speaker 3>I'm never getting through this. There were times when I

685
00:30:32.680 --> 00:30:36.640
<v Speaker 3>was sitting out on my deck by myself in this one,

686
00:30:36.680 --> 00:30:38.680
<v Speaker 3>better and two bedroom apartment that I had, and I

687
00:30:38.759 --> 00:30:39.880
<v Speaker 3>was like, this is this.

688
00:30:40.039 --> 00:30:42.640
<v Speaker 1>I can't believe this is my life. I thought I was, yeah,

689
00:30:42.680 --> 00:30:43.400
<v Speaker 1>and so.

690
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:46.119
<v Speaker 3>I would say, but getting through to the other side

691
00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:50.279
<v Speaker 3>and battling through all that made me more ready for

692
00:30:50.359 --> 00:30:53.119
<v Speaker 3>the next chapter of my life.

693
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:55.319
<v Speaker 2>All right, I'm gonna let you talk about the back

694
00:30:55.400 --> 00:30:57.039
<v Speaker 2>nine a second. But this is your first time on

695
00:30:57.079 --> 00:30:59.279
<v Speaker 2>the podcast, and you did eight for a while. So

696
00:30:59.359 --> 00:31:03.480
<v Speaker 2>we play something called worst date or first date. So

697
00:31:03.559 --> 00:31:05.319
<v Speaker 2>you either have to give us the worst date you've

698
00:31:05.359 --> 00:31:08.240
<v Speaker 2>ever been on or the greatest first date you've ever

699
00:31:08.279 --> 00:31:10.279
<v Speaker 2>been now, which could have been that date you had

700
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:11.599
<v Speaker 2>with your current wife, although I don't count that as

701
00:31:11.640 --> 00:31:12.799
<v Speaker 2>a date because you didn't know it was a date.

702
00:31:13.319 --> 00:31:15.480
<v Speaker 2>Your choice. Either the worst date or the greatest first

703
00:31:15.559 --> 00:31:17.359
<v Speaker 2>date of your life? Your choice.

704
00:31:18.759 --> 00:31:20.680
<v Speaker 1>All right, I guess I got to go with the

705
00:31:20.680 --> 00:31:22.440
<v Speaker 1>greatest first date of my life.

706
00:31:22.519 --> 00:31:27.799
<v Speaker 3>So if you don't count the little encounter in when

707
00:31:27.839 --> 00:31:30.920
<v Speaker 3>I was first here visiting Rebecca. The best first date

708
00:31:30.960 --> 00:31:33.359
<v Speaker 3>will be when she got off the boat in Saint

709
00:31:33.480 --> 00:31:37.519
<v Speaker 3>John and we went out to one of our favorite restaurants,

710
00:31:37.640 --> 00:31:40.599
<v Speaker 3>the Terrorists now one of our favorite restaurants. I can

711
00:31:40.599 --> 00:31:43.559
<v Speaker 3>remember the dress she was wearing, I can remember the conversations,

712
00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:47.480
<v Speaker 3>I can remember what we ate. So yeah, so I

713
00:31:47.480 --> 00:31:49.759
<v Speaker 3>would say that was and I knew that the spark

714
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:54.599
<v Speaker 3>continued from that first trip. Yep, so yeah, I would

715
00:31:54.680 --> 00:31:56.480
<v Speaker 3>have to say that that's my best first date.

716
00:31:56.519 --> 00:31:58.559
<v Speaker 2>I'm trying to see that's like something out of a movie.

717
00:31:59.079 --> 00:32:01.440
<v Speaker 2>My question goes to what did she What did you eat?

718
00:32:02.640 --> 00:32:05.720
<v Speaker 3>There was the great ah. He seared a he tuna

719
00:32:05.799 --> 00:32:07.079
<v Speaker 3>dish that they had there.

720
00:32:07.160 --> 00:32:07.920
<v Speaker 1>It was fantastic.

721
00:32:07.960 --> 00:32:09.240
<v Speaker 2>That's the fat guy. I mean, I don't care what

722
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:11.480
<v Speaker 2>she wore. I'm like, what did you eat? I just

723
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:13.079
<v Speaker 2>got a Playboy mansion all the time, and I would

724
00:32:13.079 --> 00:32:14.319
<v Speaker 2>come home They're like, how was it? I'm like, they

725
00:32:14.359 --> 00:32:17.160
<v Speaker 2>had like six inch shrimp. It was amazing a buffet.

726
00:32:19.319 --> 00:32:22.200
<v Speaker 2>All right, tell us about the philosophy behind the back

727
00:32:22.279 --> 00:32:24.039
<v Speaker 2>nine podcast and where they can find you and all this.

728
00:32:24.160 --> 00:32:25.319
<v Speaker 2>I talk about how that came about.

729
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.119
<v Speaker 3>Okay, so my one of my best friends for thirty

730
00:32:28.119 --> 00:32:31.160
<v Speaker 3>five years. Josh Moore and I have known each other

731
00:32:31.160 --> 00:32:33.519
<v Speaker 3>for a long time. We're former sportscasters, so we were

732
00:32:33.880 --> 00:32:36.680
<v Speaker 3>both in media and mostly in Buffalo, New York for

733
00:32:36.759 --> 00:32:40.880
<v Speaker 3>a long time, covering Buffalo sports and yeah, go bills,

734
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:44.839
<v Speaker 3>for sure, go bills. We retired from those businesses and

735
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:47.640
<v Speaker 3>moved on, moved on with our lives, and you know,

736
00:32:47.680 --> 00:32:49.880
<v Speaker 3>like I said during COVID, I was going through some stuff.

737
00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:52.400
<v Speaker 1>He was going through some stuff. We started talking about.

738
00:32:52.279 --> 00:32:56.720
<v Speaker 3>Really deep guy stuff on you know, on Zoom or

739
00:32:56.720 --> 00:32:59.640
<v Speaker 3>on FaceTime or whatever, and we realized.

740
00:32:59.720 --> 00:33:02.680
<v Speaker 1>This be good as a podcast, Like, let's try it.

741
00:33:02.880 --> 00:33:04.440
<v Speaker 1>So we did a.

742
00:33:04.359 --> 00:33:07.599
<v Speaker 3>Couple trial ones on Zoom because I was in California

743
00:33:07.599 --> 00:33:10.799
<v Speaker 3>and he was in Florida, and we were terrible. We sucked.

744
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:13.559
<v Speaker 3>I didn't like it at all. I thought, for two

745
00:33:13.559 --> 00:33:15.920
<v Speaker 3>people who were in the broadcast business, this is bad.

746
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:20.400
<v Speaker 3>So what happened was again serendipity. We had a chance

747
00:33:20.440 --> 00:33:24.400
<v Speaker 3>to meet Janine who you know, Jeanine Stella, and we

748
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:26.680
<v Speaker 3>had an opportunity to go into a studio and try it,

749
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:29.920
<v Speaker 3>and we sat across from each other in a studio

750
00:33:30.119 --> 00:33:34.839
<v Speaker 3>talking about what our journeys. We're just talking about a

751
00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:37.799
<v Speaker 3>little bit, and we realized that we were onto something

752
00:33:37.960 --> 00:33:40.960
<v Speaker 3>that we could talk about men after midlife, which is

753
00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:44.480
<v Speaker 3>the analogy for the back nine, the metaphor, if you will,

754
00:33:45.160 --> 00:33:47.400
<v Speaker 3>And it's about the back nine of life. It's about

755
00:33:47.480 --> 00:33:51.599
<v Speaker 3>life after midlife and the trials and tribulation. It's not

756
00:33:51.680 --> 00:33:54.759
<v Speaker 3>just about divorce. It's about health and wellness. We did

757
00:33:54.759 --> 00:33:56.920
<v Speaker 3>a financial show this past week that's going to air.

758
00:33:56.960 --> 00:33:59.599
<v Speaker 3>We do all kinds of things that can help men

759
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:03.599
<v Speaker 3>understanding women on the Back nine, all different kinds of things,

760
00:34:03.640 --> 00:34:05.240
<v Speaker 3>and we have guests every week.

761
00:34:05.279 --> 00:34:07.680
<v Speaker 1>We've had some great celebrity guests talking about their journey

762
00:34:07.680 --> 00:34:10.519
<v Speaker 1>in the back nine. So, yeah, that's what it is.

763
00:34:11.199 --> 00:34:12.960
<v Speaker 2>I was on your show. I'm not one of those celebrities,

764
00:34:12.960 --> 00:34:15.599
<v Speaker 2>but it was our celebrities. Oh thanks, I'll ask you

765
00:34:15.639 --> 00:34:17.679
<v Speaker 2>more questions though, I'll come back on your show. Like

766
00:34:17.719 --> 00:34:20.039
<v Speaker 2>we like, I just felt it was authentic and as well.

767
00:34:20.239 --> 00:34:23.039
<v Speaker 2>And I am somebody who is not that comfortable talking

768
00:34:23.079 --> 00:34:25.559
<v Speaker 2>to men, and part of that is because I didn't

769
00:34:25.599 --> 00:34:28.519
<v Speaker 2>really probably trust the relationship with my father, and so

770
00:34:28.599 --> 00:34:31.000
<v Speaker 2>part of that, Like, I really enjoyed it. I really

771
00:34:31.079 --> 00:34:34.440
<v Speaker 2>enjoyed it. It was it's very honest and I appreciate,

772
00:34:34.559 --> 00:34:38.480
<v Speaker 2>so check out the Back nine podcast. Dennis, you were great.

773
00:34:38.519 --> 00:34:39.039
<v Speaker 2>This was fun.

774
00:34:39.079 --> 00:34:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Thank you, It was really fun.

775
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:43.599
<v Speaker 2>As far as us like, share, follow, please review this

776
00:34:43.679 --> 00:34:46.519
<v Speaker 2>podcast and the Back nine podcasting reviews still after five

777
00:34:46.599 --> 00:34:49.119
<v Speaker 2>hundred so episodes mean a lot in the podcasting ecosystem

778
00:34:49.199 --> 00:34:51.440
<v Speaker 2>shoots an email Great Love Debate at gmail dot com.

779
00:34:51.440 --> 00:34:55.000
<v Speaker 2>If you've got questions, thoughts, comments, or whatever. Check out

780
00:34:55.000 --> 00:34:57.679
<v Speaker 2>Dead to Me podcast I got. I got some very

781
00:34:57.719 --> 00:35:00.840
<v Speaker 2>famous people coming on that soon. But all good because,

782
00:35:00.840 --> 00:35:05.480
<v Speaker 2>as always at the Great Love Debate, we never stopped

783
00:35:05.480 --> 00:35:06.639
<v Speaker 2>making love. To see you next time.

784
00:35:11.719 --> 00:35:15.760
<v Speaker 1>The Great Love Debate. It's the Great Love Debate.

785
00:35:16.760 --> 00:35:18.239
<v Speaker 2>De Great Love Debate.

786
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:20.719
<v Speaker 1>It's a Great Love Debate.