1 00:00:27,839 --> 00:00:30,399 Speaker 1: Hello, Ed, Welcome to the show of Martin Willshire host. 2 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:33,880 And I was just talking to Bill A Kgra and 3 00:00:34,000 --> 00:00:36,600 kind of laughing because this is my schedule. And back 4 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:39,679 in New Hampshire for just a couple of days, and 5 00:00:39,679 --> 00:00:43,359 then I go back down to South Carolina. Then I 6 00:00:43,399 --> 00:00:46,679 go out to Contact in the Desert in California. Then 7 00:00:46,719 --> 00:00:49,520 I come back to South Carolina. Then I fly up 8 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:54,000 to Pine Bush and that conference up there UFO conce 9 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,200 then I fly back down to South Carolina. Then I 10 00:00:57,240 --> 00:01:00,960 fly back up here for the summer. I'm exhausted just 11 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:05,599 talking about it. But anyway, so there's a lot going on, 12 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,640 and I hope that I have said this before, but 13 00:01:09,719 --> 00:01:12,040 I hope that if you are out at Contact in 14 00:01:12,079 --> 00:01:14,159 the Desert you hear this ahead of time. Of course, 15 00:01:14,879 --> 00:01:19,200 then just send me an email at Martinette PODCASTUFO dot com. 16 00:01:19,519 --> 00:01:22,200 And I'm going to be doing some recording. There's a 17 00:01:22,239 --> 00:01:24,200 media room. I have a lot of people scheduled for 18 00:01:24,239 --> 00:01:27,280 the media room. I'm going to be like Ross Coltheart 19 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,480 and Paul Heinek and lots of people that are going 20 00:01:31,519 --> 00:01:34,719 to be interviewing Ben Hansen, a bunch of people. I'm 21 00:01:34,719 --> 00:01:36,680 going to be interviewing with and if you want to 22 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,799 hang out during an interview, you know, just email me 23 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,439 if you're out there. I'm really excited to go out there. 24 00:01:42,439 --> 00:01:44,400 I've never gone here. It's kind of like a big 25 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:48,480 almost like a burning Man or something, you know, a 26 00:01:48,519 --> 00:01:51,799 big rock concert or whatever. So my guest tonight is 27 00:01:52,200 --> 00:01:54,680 our longtime blogger here. I got to ask him how 28 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:58,439 many years it's been, Charles Lear. He comes up with 29 00:01:58,640 --> 00:02:01,920 something every week. Now. He's on his third book. We'll 30 00:02:01,959 --> 00:02:03,439 talk a little bit about that, but we're going to 31 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,040 be talking kind of how he does his research. I 32 00:02:06,079 --> 00:02:09,159 think it's fascinating. He's on his way out to New 33 00:02:09,199 --> 00:02:12,199 Mexico Dave Milers and the archives to go through those 34 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,120 of the Apro archives, which I think I have a 35 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,280 picture of him somewhere digging into all these archives in 36 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,039 his work. I think one of the best things that's 37 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:27,360 happened to my show here is Charles reaching out to me. 38 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:29,879 I'm going to ask him how many years ago and 39 00:02:29,960 --> 00:02:32,800 asking if I needed a blogger, which I did have 40 00:02:32,879 --> 00:02:35,159 when I first started. Michael Out did some great blogs 41 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,719 way back, but everything got hacked and gone away, so 42 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,439 all those blogs have gone. But so Charles has been blogging. 43 00:02:43,439 --> 00:02:47,520 I'm going to just bring him in and ask him, Charles, Welcome. 44 00:02:47,599 --> 00:02:48,360 Speaker 2: Hello Martin. 45 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:51,400 Speaker 1: How many years has it been, Charles? Did you ever? 46 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,000 Speaker 2: Pretty sure it was twenty. 47 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:58,439 Speaker 1: Nineteen, twenty nineteen, so about six years yep. And a 48 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:04,240 blog every single week pretty much. Yeah, I think there's 49 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,639 one or two. You're on vacation anyway, Welcome to the show. 50 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:10,800 Thank you for coming on again. It's always a pleasure 51 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:11,400 to talk to you. 52 00:03:11,879 --> 00:03:13,840 Speaker 2: Well. Thanks for having me. Always good to be here. 53 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:17,039 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, And you know I should kind of mention 54 00:03:17,199 --> 00:03:20,080 like I do in the beginning of every show, is 55 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:24,879 this week's blog by Charles Lear is a nineteen seventy 56 00:03:24,879 --> 00:03:29,879 five UFO and occupant report from Wisconsin and another John Keel. 57 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,960 I've noticed that you John Keel's in a lot of 58 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:36,159 your research and a lot of your blogs. He was 59 00:03:36,199 --> 00:03:40,199 an interesting character. Can you tell, like the listening audience 60 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:41,639 that may have never heard of him, a little bit 61 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:43,000 about him that you know? 62 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, Keil was pretty amazing. He started off writing when 63 00:03:47,479 --> 00:03:50,120 he was just a teenager. I think it was as 64 00:03:50,159 --> 00:03:52,680 early as sixteen years old. He wrote for a local 65 00:03:52,719 --> 00:03:55,840 paper and he had to call him called scraping the keel. 66 00:03:56,599 --> 00:04:00,800 I think he got paid a whopping like dollar a 67 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,680 week or something like that. It was really low. But 68 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:08,400 he started writting really early, and he left home hitch 69 00:04:08,479 --> 00:04:10,800 hiked his way. He lived in upstate New York, and 70 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:15,520 he hitch hiked his way down to New York City. 71 00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:18,800 I think he had like fifty cents in his pocket. 72 00:04:19,279 --> 00:04:26,399 He got himself job working with I think newspapers and magazines, 73 00:04:27,079 --> 00:04:32,000 and eventually made his way into making a living as 74 00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:38,000 a journalist and a writer. He wrote for television, he 75 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:45,199 wrote for a lot of humor magazines, humor books. He 76 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:50,360 wrote for Playboy magazine, and yeah, so he was primarily 77 00:04:50,399 --> 00:04:54,279 a writer. And then he got into the UFO subject. 78 00:04:54,439 --> 00:05:01,680 And he said to Gray Barker, who he investigated the 79 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,720 Mothman and the Woodrow darren Berger case in Point bleasand 80 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:11,480 in nineteen sixty six, Gray Barker said to him, you 81 00:05:11,600 --> 00:05:15,720 seem to know a lot about the UFO subject that 82 00:05:15,759 --> 00:05:18,879 you're not telling anybody. How did you How did you 83 00:05:18,879 --> 00:05:20,959 come to know so much? And he said, I read 84 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:25,639 everything I could find on flying saucers and UFOs, and 85 00:05:25,759 --> 00:05:29,759 let me tell you that was some hard medicine. But 86 00:05:29,959 --> 00:05:33,279 he's what you call an autodidact. He was self taught, 87 00:05:33,959 --> 00:05:38,079 but he even ended up editings. I think he edited 88 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:43,680 the psychlog I think he was ended up being a 89 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:48,360 science editor at one point. And yeah, he's had a 90 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:52,920 he had a really multi faceted career, but primarily as 91 00:05:52,959 --> 00:05:56,319 a writer. And that what's really interesting is he liked 92 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,959 to write about UFOs and I kind of I see 93 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,680 myself that way, as I like to write first and foremost, 94 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:07,680 and I like to write about UFOs, and he was 95 00:06:07,879 --> 00:06:13,160 very much the same way. And as I've been doing it, 96 00:06:13,199 --> 00:06:15,680 I've come to understand him more, and it seems that 97 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:22,639 he he thought of himself first and foremost as a 98 00:06:22,639 --> 00:06:25,240 writer and secondarily as a UFO investigator. 99 00:06:25,759 --> 00:06:30,120 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, but he did investigate as well, right, I 100 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:32,160 mean he did a lot of investigative work. 101 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:37,720 Speaker 2: Oh yeah. He the Mothman prophecies is about, is him 102 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,439 getting deep in the trenches in Point Pleasant, West Virginia 103 00:06:41,519 --> 00:06:45,480 during the Mothman mystery. And also there were a whole 104 00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,839 bunch of UFO settings there around the time. So this 105 00:06:47,879 --> 00:06:51,480 is nineteen sixty six through sixty seven, and at the 106 00:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,040 same time, there's a lot of there was a flap 107 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,959 in Long Island. But what made him really interesting is 108 00:06:58,000 --> 00:07:00,560 he was open to contact e reports and he found 109 00:07:00,879 --> 00:07:03,680 a lot of what he called the silent contact these 110 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:07,279 which were people. What made them rare is they didn't 111 00:07:07,279 --> 00:07:11,600 seek publicity. He had to find them and get their 112 00:07:11,800 --> 00:07:14,240 private stories out of them for the most part. And 113 00:07:14,519 --> 00:07:18,839 one of his research methods was to not publicize all 114 00:07:18,879 --> 00:07:24,040 of his findings, to keep some stuff under his keep 115 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:31,680 some stuff in his sleeve. Looking just keep some stuff 116 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,399 from the public, keep it to himself, so that if 117 00:07:34,439 --> 00:07:39,879 he saw commonalities and the reports, he knew that these 118 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:42,360 people didn't get it from something he had written or 119 00:07:42,399 --> 00:07:46,639 somebody else had written. So that's another thing he did 120 00:07:46,759 --> 00:07:50,959 was he looked for patterns and he lot up my 121 00:07:51,079 --> 00:07:57,199 favorite book of his operation Trojan Horse, and he goes 122 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:02,879 into some really deep thinking about the mystery. And one 123 00:08:02,920 --> 00:08:05,920 of his big ideas was he didn't coin the phrase, 124 00:08:06,639 --> 00:08:10,160 but it's the idea of ultra terrestrials, which are sort 125 00:08:10,199 --> 00:08:14,360 of inter dimensions. It's part of the interdimensional hypothesis. 126 00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:19,639 Speaker 1: So yeah, well, I just want to say hi to 127 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:24,519 everyone and chat. Thank you all for being here. Hey, Bobby, 128 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:31,560 how you doing, Duckhead Bluie Wyatt, Chris Alexander, all these 129 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,799 people and men. I always say this wrong, but I'm 130 00:08:34,840 --> 00:08:37,080 telling you we have someone in here that comes up 131 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:41,879 with some really good questions. She's been listening for a 132 00:08:41,879 --> 00:08:44,399 long time, decided to get active, and she has really 133 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,679 great questions. So we can expect that I'm putting a 134 00:08:46,720 --> 00:08:51,440 little pressure on her men Denopolis, so we'll have some 135 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:55,639 probably some good questions from her today. But I want 136 00:08:55,639 --> 00:08:58,440 to thank you all for being here live and joining 137 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:01,960 in the chat, and you're welcome to post questions. I'll 138 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,879 put them up if they work at the time, and 139 00:09:03,919 --> 00:09:07,679 please use caps when you do that. So so, Charles, 140 00:09:08,159 --> 00:09:10,279 I know I asked you this before, but I'm going 141 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:13,279 to ask you again because I can't remember. And that 142 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:17,799 is what first got you into the topic of UFOs. 143 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:19,039 What sparked your interest. 144 00:09:21,559 --> 00:09:25,120 Speaker 2: I've been interested as long as I can remember. I 145 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:31,039 think it's coming of age in the seventies. The seventies 146 00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:34,559 was a great time for UFOs and Bigfoot and all 147 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,000 sorts of paranormal subjects because a lot of movies are 148 00:09:38,039 --> 00:09:39,720 coming out and you actually had to go to the 149 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,960 theater to see these movies. So you know, I saw 150 00:09:43,320 --> 00:09:47,000 that's right, Bigfoot doc, you know, the Bigfoot movie in 151 00:09:47,080 --> 00:09:56,919 the theater, and oh other sorts, but the yeah you 152 00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:58,840 also had in search of with Leonard Nimoy. 153 00:09:59,159 --> 00:10:00,879 Speaker 1: That's oh yeah, that was great. Yeah. 154 00:10:01,240 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 2: A lot of people my age bring all those things up. 155 00:10:05,159 --> 00:10:08,799 But I remember, you know, back in the days when 156 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:11,480 you had to wait for television shows to be broadcast. 157 00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:15,200 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, no such thing as binge watching. They wouldn't 158 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:16,320 know what you're talking about. 159 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,039 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah. You open up the TV guide and you see, 160 00:10:19,080 --> 00:10:22,840 oh my god, here's a UFO special circle that and 161 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,440 really look forward to it. And everyone that came on 162 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:27,240 it was like a real special event. 163 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,919 Speaker 1: You know. I wasn't really paying attention myself, but I remember, 164 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:34,679 I believe it was in high school or just out 165 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,240 of high school. I can't remember the year it came out, 166 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:42,799 but was that Betty and Barney Hill special whatever it 167 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:50,039 was on TV? I happened to catch that. And Darth Vader, yeah, 168 00:10:50,279 --> 00:10:52,039 that's who was in it, right. I can't think of 169 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,320 his name right now, but goodness, I'm sure that in 170 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:54,879 the in. 171 00:10:54,879 --> 00:10:56,720 Speaker 2: The somebody's screaming it right now. 172 00:10:56,759 --> 00:10:59,840 Speaker 1: I'm sure someone will pop it in there. L Jones 173 00:11:00,039 --> 00:11:03,600 names and Angel Jones yep. And I watched that and 174 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:06,679 it was like I was kind of like horrified, you know, 175 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,320 like the possibility of it when they said it was 176 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:12,639 based on a true story, you know. And here I'm 177 00:11:12,799 --> 00:11:16,559 right in the town where Maggie and Barney lived, Portsmouth, 178 00:11:16,559 --> 00:11:22,399 New Hampshire, And you know, my cousin's husband knew knew Barney, 179 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,960 and he used to hang out for hours when he 180 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:26,840 was supposed to be delivering that mail. 181 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. 182 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,799 Speaker 1: Story, but he said he rarely talked about really talked 183 00:11:32,799 --> 00:11:34,639 about the UFO and so, but he did, he did 184 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:38,279 talk about it a few times. But yeah, so yeah, 185 00:11:38,320 --> 00:11:43,080 and you know that's there's a little controversy in that, 186 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:44,639 you know, a lot of people don't like to talk 187 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:50,240 about it. But Simon's the psychiatrist, thinks that he doesn't 188 00:11:50,279 --> 00:11:52,240 really think it happened to him. He thinks they think 189 00:11:52,279 --> 00:11:54,720 it happened to him. But I'm not saying that means 190 00:11:54,879 --> 00:11:57,200 one hundred percent that it didn't happen, you know. But 191 00:11:57,279 --> 00:11:58,879 I did, you know, kind of brought that up with 192 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:03,559 Kathy Martin, the niece, his niece, I mean, Betty's niece, 193 00:12:03,759 --> 00:12:08,759 and and you know, so I don't know, you know, well. 194 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 2: When I looked into the case, you can get the 195 00:12:11,799 --> 00:12:18,320 original investigator's report. I think Walter Web he actually wrote 196 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:22,279 a report for Nicap, which is unusual because Nightcap hated 197 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,039 anything even close to a contact report, and they really 198 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:30,879 begrudgingly covered it in the UFO Investigator of their publication. 199 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,200 But if you really, if you want to get a 200 00:12:34,240 --> 00:12:37,559 really good look at the Betty and Barney Hill case, 201 00:12:38,080 --> 00:12:41,080 you should go to water Web's report. You can find it. 202 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:44,159 I think it's now hosted on the QFOS website because 203 00:12:44,159 --> 00:12:48,120 they took over the Nightcap files and I think Mark 204 00:12:48,279 --> 00:12:52,159 Rodiger just revamped the q PHOS site. Oh yeah, so 205 00:12:52,399 --> 00:12:56,720 you can find water Web's original report and it's it's 206 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:02,320 you know you, it's them talking to him. This is 207 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,159 before they even got into hypnosis, and they tell us 208 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:10,879 the story for the most part, as they told it 209 00:13:10,960 --> 00:13:14,240 to Simon. Most of the abduction stuff actually comes from 210 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:17,879 Betty Hill's dreams that she actually wrote down the dreams, 211 00:13:17,879 --> 00:13:21,200 so before they even got into hypnosis. But Barney actually 212 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,440 describes the creatures before he and and all the he 213 00:13:26,559 --> 00:13:29,360 describes a lot of stuff out of conscious memory, recall. 214 00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:32,360 But yeah, doctor Benjamin Simon didn't believe. 215 00:13:33,039 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, like it's right. I think it's right in the 216 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:41,440 first paragraph of what he wrote in the forward or something. 217 00:13:41,480 --> 00:13:43,799 I forget exactly, but it's it's in the book. I 218 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:46,440 had someone that had the book and showed it to me, 219 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,000 So don't know who you met. She showed she has 220 00:13:50,039 --> 00:13:51,480 the book and showed it to me right where he 221 00:13:51,480 --> 00:13:55,559 says it. But interesting, it's still, you know, considered a 222 00:13:55,639 --> 00:13:59,399 landmark case, you know, and uh, you know, there's a 223 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:01,879 lot of people here in town that I've talked to 224 00:14:01,960 --> 00:14:04,679 over the years that knew Betty. She was a real character. 225 00:14:04,679 --> 00:14:07,799 Anne Barney, but especially Betty because Betty lived for quite 226 00:14:07,840 --> 00:14:09,519 a while and she had a lot of friends. 227 00:14:10,039 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 2: It's really cool to be in a place where a 228 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:14,919 classic case happened and actually talk to the people. When 229 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:18,679 I live in magdalenea New Mexico, I knew a lot 230 00:14:18,679 --> 00:14:22,919 of people who knew Lonnie Zamora from the Sikoro incident, 231 00:14:23,039 --> 00:14:25,440 and so I got to hear people talk about Lonnie's 232 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,639 Amora and here's some really fun stories about him, like 233 00:14:28,679 --> 00:14:34,679 one I think radio interview. It's the interviewer asked him, 234 00:14:34,879 --> 00:14:39,519 you know, so when you saw the UFO mister Zamora, 235 00:14:39,679 --> 00:14:42,039 what state were you in? Well, I was in the 236 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:43,480 state of New Mexico. 237 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:49,799 Speaker 1: Sir, state of shock, and yeah, yeah, you stories with people. 238 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:51,240 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah. 239 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 1: He was very, very very credible. That's what everybody says 240 00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:56,639 about him. And that was one of the you know, 241 00:14:56,759 --> 00:15:01,000 the probably the turning point for people like Jay Allen Heinich, 242 00:15:01,559 --> 00:15:05,320 like he really thought, Wow, this is something I can't 243 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:09,720 just you know, call swamp gas and kind of change 244 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:12,320 his whole thought. So I also want to give a 245 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,000 shout out because he listens to every show. I'm going 246 00:15:15,039 --> 00:15:17,320 to be at an event tomorrow and this guy's coming 247 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,320 to meet me in the name Eric Eric, So I'll 248 00:15:20,320 --> 00:15:25,440 see you tomorrow. Eric. But anyway, let's see, this is 249 00:15:25,759 --> 00:15:28,080 kind of an interesting point someone puts here in the chat. 250 00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:32,159 Anyone that listened to the Matthew Brown interviews, are you 251 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,360 familiar with that? This is like the whistleblower Matthew Brown 252 00:15:35,399 --> 00:15:40,879 that's come out recently, kind of talking about the Immaculate Constellation. 253 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,519 I don't know if you've heard any of this out. 254 00:15:44,679 --> 00:15:49,639 He was on Weaponize with Georgia Knapp and Jeremy Corbel, 255 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:55,200 and I'm not going to cast judgment on anything or anyone. 256 00:15:55,559 --> 00:15:58,320 I'm just saying it was very interesting. I watched a 257 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,039 lot of it and I think it was very and 258 00:16:02,279 --> 00:16:05,639 sounds it sounds like there's a lot of people, you know, 259 00:16:05,679 --> 00:16:07,519 and someone sent me this thing. I haven't looked at 260 00:16:07,519 --> 00:16:12,000 it today, but they said someone's coming forward from NASA saying, 261 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:16,440 you know, retired from NASA saying yes, these UFOs are 262 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:20,480 blah blah blah. You know. Like again, I haven't read anything. 263 00:16:20,519 --> 00:16:23,320 I don't know if it's credible. I just have these 264 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:26,679 links sent to me all day long, which is by 265 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,559 people like this. I want to give a shout out 266 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:31,720 to Palmer because he's always sending me links in that 267 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,480 involved in the UFO topic. I'm very grateful for that. 268 00:16:35,759 --> 00:16:39,440 But yeah, there's a lot. It seems like there's a 269 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:41,320 lot going on. There was going to be a hearing 270 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:46,440 tonight today. I mean, I'm sorry, not tonight today in Washington, 271 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,679 d C. Or was it yesterday? I can't remember. 272 00:16:48,679 --> 00:16:50,440 Speaker 2: Maybe they canceled. 273 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:55,440 Speaker 1: It didn't it wasn't scheduled properly. That's what I've heard, 274 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:58,240 because I talked to someone in DC. I couldn't make 275 00:16:58,279 --> 00:17:00,440 it ahead work up here on the cape, so I 276 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:03,000 couldn't make it, and I was really disappointed that I 277 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:04,720 couldn't make it because I would like to go to 278 00:17:04,799 --> 00:17:08,200 all of them. And so I found out that it 279 00:17:08,240 --> 00:17:10,640 wasn't scheduled properly, therefore it didn't happen. 280 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 2: Okay, Yeah, I mean, you know, as far as all 281 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:19,160 this stuff goes, I'm right as a historian from the 282 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:22,480 point of view of an historian and a journalist, so 283 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:26,200 I like to I'll let the dust settle and then 284 00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:29,279 go back and pick through the ashes and get there. 285 00:17:29,480 --> 00:17:32,680 Speaker 1: You know. Uh. 286 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 2: That's because there's so much, so much rancor and arguing 287 00:17:36,519 --> 00:17:40,119 back and forth. And I'm comfortable in my position and 288 00:17:40,240 --> 00:17:42,880 my approach to it because I can stay at out 289 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:46,319 of the rankor and the arguing. And right now there's 290 00:17:46,720 --> 00:17:50,559 a great divide in UFO world that is kind of drag. 291 00:17:51,039 --> 00:17:53,880 Speaker 1: It's in every segment of our society. 292 00:17:53,960 --> 00:17:58,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, the whole versus non you know. Yeah, 293 00:17:59,319 --> 00:18:04,839 I I prefer to just sit back and you know, 294 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,160 I let people as far as I'm concerned, you know, 295 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,200 let people enjoy the subject how they enjoy it, that's 296 00:18:14,240 --> 00:18:17,880 all good. Yeah, And you know, I've got my niche 297 00:18:17,920 --> 00:18:19,519 and that's where I like to stay. 298 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:23,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I feel like there's no way anyone's going 299 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:25,799 to change anyone's mind. A lot of times people's minds 300 00:18:25,799 --> 00:18:29,000 already made up, And why get into like this big 301 00:18:29,119 --> 00:18:31,519 match about I stay pretty neutral myself. 302 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: No, you do great. That's one of the reasons I 303 00:18:34,000 --> 00:18:35,079 was attracted to your show. 304 00:18:35,759 --> 00:18:38,759 Speaker 1: Well, thank you, but I can tell you that I do. 305 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:42,519 I still haven't open enough mind, like I'll go to 306 00:18:42,799 --> 00:18:47,440 those hearings because not only is it really historic that 307 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:51,319 these are happening, yeah, but in the halls and running 308 00:18:51,319 --> 00:18:53,640 into all these people, and I got there's a lot 309 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:55,960 of listeners to the show too that I run into. 310 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,880 But still, just the conversations in the line when you 311 00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:02,920 waiting and stuff like that, that's worth going even if 312 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:04,759 you didn't get in the room, you know. I mean, 313 00:19:04,799 --> 00:19:08,759 it's really a blast. And again, it feels sort of 314 00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:13,039 historic that these things are happening. But you're right, I 315 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:18,279 said when I very first heard David Grush talk about 316 00:19:18,319 --> 00:19:22,680 back in June of twenty twenty three, with Ross Coldheart 317 00:19:22,799 --> 00:19:24,519 interviewing him, when I first heard him talk about the 318 00:19:24,519 --> 00:19:27,440 crash retrievals, and I'm looking at him, say, he looks 319 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,440 really sincere and blah blah blah, and I said kind 320 00:19:31,440 --> 00:19:34,319 of the same thing. Let's see what time does to this. 321 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,039 Let's see, you know, because at a wall, the truth 322 00:19:38,079 --> 00:19:42,720 eventually always seems to come out. However, in this particular topic, 323 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,680 I don't know what to think about that because it 324 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,599 seems a little quirky whether the truth's going to come 325 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,519 out eventually or not, you know. And then we have 326 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,160 you know, Jake Barber is another one. A lot of 327 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:58,759 people ask me what I think about him and all that, 328 00:19:58,839 --> 00:20:01,240 and I feel the same way. Just let time go. 329 00:20:02,559 --> 00:20:05,720 You know, there's these people that are they're calling these 330 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,880 UFO experts, they call them, and you know, they're there. 331 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,000 And and another thing we talked a little bit off air, 332 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:16,079 like there's so many people in the UFO topic. I've 333 00:20:16,079 --> 00:20:19,799 been doing this since twenty eleven the show. But there's 334 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:23,640 these people with big YouTube channels that have hundreds of 335 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:28,680 thousands of subscribers that oh the YouTube topic, and they're 336 00:20:28,720 --> 00:20:31,240 doing a really good job and they're you know, they're 337 00:20:31,279 --> 00:20:34,799 they're really getting a big audience. And it's the timing 338 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,319 seems good for them because there's so many more people 339 00:20:39,319 --> 00:20:44,000 looking into the topic than back you know, even six 340 00:20:44,079 --> 00:20:47,400 years ago, five years ago, so many more people looking 341 00:20:47,440 --> 00:20:50,079 into it. So there's an audience now and it's but 342 00:20:50,119 --> 00:20:54,839 that's not really what I started this show for, like 343 00:20:55,279 --> 00:20:59,240 an audience or popular or anything like that. I just 344 00:20:59,279 --> 00:21:00,559 did it out of careuriosity. 345 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:01,400 Speaker 2: M hm. 346 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:04,720 Speaker 1: And I still still do it. I still, you know, 347 00:21:05,000 --> 00:21:08,519 jokingly say I know less than I did when I started. 348 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 2: So you're saying you're not a grifter Martin, not purposely. No, 349 00:21:16,599 --> 00:21:20,240 I'm with you. You know, I do what I do 350 00:21:20,279 --> 00:21:23,119 because I love to do it. I'm certainly not making 351 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,279 any money at it. Yeah, well you know, I'm making 352 00:21:26,319 --> 00:21:31,599 a little money, but but in any case, I'm not, 353 00:21:33,640 --> 00:21:36,839 I'd still have a day job. Let's put it that way. Yeah, 354 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:40,559 you know. Yeah, And you know there's that's most of 355 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:42,880 us out here, you know, who've been doing this for 356 00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,160 years and years and years, and most people just do 357 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:47,079 it because they love. 358 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:52,599 Speaker 1: It so well this thank you for that, Jagger Legs, 359 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,119 thanks for you do. That's nice to you. Let's see, 360 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:03,400 I don't know, it says, So what amount of the 361 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:07,599 divide in the UFL community do you attribute to bad actors? 362 00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,839 You know, maybe the I don't know if you want 363 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:12,839 to say grifters, if it's too strong of a word. 364 00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,799 There are some people that someone may may call that. 365 00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:21,519 I mean, I I have this story. I can't I can't. 366 00:22:21,559 --> 00:22:24,400 I shouldn't tease it, but I have to tease it 367 00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,400 a little bit because it's a fantastical story that someone 368 00:22:27,480 --> 00:22:31,880 kind of got caught with a drone in the back 369 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,839 of a pickup truck. A college kid was going to 370 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,440 supposed to fly it at a certain time for an 371 00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:43,279 event where people were paying to bring in UFOs. You know, 372 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:47,240 so you can only imagine. You can fill in that, 373 00:22:47,279 --> 00:22:50,640 you can fill in the blanks, but you can imagine. 374 00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,960 Speaker 3: Maybe you can figure out there's the guy have a 375 00:22:56,039 --> 00:23:02,440 doctor no comment anyway, Yeah, well that's interesting. 376 00:23:02,799 --> 00:23:08,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, but anyway, if that's I don't I can't confirm it. No, 377 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:12,279 I have the person that saw the guy and talked 378 00:23:12,279 --> 00:23:14,880 to him or whatever he said. I don't have any 379 00:23:14,920 --> 00:23:18,000 of his information. He's a college kid. I met him 380 00:23:18,039 --> 00:23:20,200 at a seven eleven and it was right where this 381 00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,119 thing was happening, and blah blah blah. That's as far 382 00:23:23,160 --> 00:23:23,680 as it goes. 383 00:23:24,039 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, but I think you know, to the question that 384 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:33,400 bad actors, I mean, yeah, I'm sure some people question 385 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:38,200 whether it's actually part of a government conspiracy. You know, 386 00:23:39,319 --> 00:23:42,799 Oh yeah, it just really seems to me that I 387 00:23:42,839 --> 00:23:47,000 think it's an old battle, the battle to control the narrative. 388 00:23:48,160 --> 00:23:51,319 I actually wrote about that in Crash Saucers and Malevel 389 00:23:51,319 --> 00:23:57,359 and Aliens, where Bill Moore was basically trying struggling against 390 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:01,079 John Lear and the UFO Dark Sidle all of his people, 391 00:24:02,599 --> 00:24:05,640 and it came to a head at the nineteen eighty 392 00:24:05,720 --> 00:24:09,160 nine move On Symposium in Las Vegas, and he made 393 00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:12,400 that speech and everybody looks at that speech like it's 394 00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:15,200 him coming clean, And if you really look at that speech, 395 00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:19,000 it's him trying to regain control of the narrative by saying, 396 00:24:19,039 --> 00:24:21,039 you know, all this stuff Bill Lear speeding. It was 397 00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:25,480 disinformation I gave him and helped give him with Richard Doty. 398 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,119 And meanwhile everybody said, wait a minute. 399 00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:31,640 Speaker 1: You know who was sitting right there in the audience 400 00:24:31,759 --> 00:24:35,079 is my friend Chris Lambright. He was, oh, yeah, yeah, 401 00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:37,119 the whole thing. So the whole thing happened. 402 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. Actually I had a little he wrote X, descending 403 00:24:43,559 --> 00:24:46,720 that's right. Yeah, yeah, so I had a little email 404 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:56,720 because I wrote about Witz and Chris actually wrote extensive well, 405 00:24:56,759 --> 00:24:59,559 that's X descending and he really he actually has some 406 00:24:59,599 --> 00:25:02,559 of the picks sures that Benwitz took over the Manzana 407 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:07,599 weapons storage area, and he compared them to stuff that 408 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:13,680 are our old friend Ray Stanford his his footage and yeah, 409 00:25:13,799 --> 00:25:17,079 so that was really interesting. But yeah, so like it's 410 00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:19,240 it's an old struggle, you know, trying to regain the 411 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:23,359 control of the narrative, and you know it nuts and bolts, 412 00:25:23,440 --> 00:25:28,960 craft with little gray aliens with big black eyes, mutilating 413 00:25:29,079 --> 00:25:33,160 cows and honoring everybody's DNA et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, 414 00:25:33,519 --> 00:25:41,039 or is it something even stranger? And anybody who claims 415 00:25:41,599 --> 00:25:44,400 you've I've heard you say that anybody who claims to 416 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:47,039 have the ass he should turn around and run right, 417 00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:48,880 But so are you? 418 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: Are you familiar with a guy named Kurt Jamungle. He 419 00:25:52,599 --> 00:25:54,920 does the theory of everything. I don't know if you 420 00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:58,359 listen to anybody does he does some UFO so, but 421 00:25:58,839 --> 00:26:01,960 he's a physicist and the good guy. I had him 422 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,559 on my show one time, but he had someone on. 423 00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,759 I'm just bring this up. It was so fascinating. It 424 00:26:08,799 --> 00:26:11,759 was a professor, Professor Robin Hanson, and I just want 425 00:26:11,799 --> 00:26:14,119 to say, he's my guest next week. I heard the 426 00:26:14,160 --> 00:26:16,960 podcast and I go, oh my god, this is so fascinating. 427 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,480 So we're in for a really good show, a really 428 00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:25,640 good show next week with Robin Hanson. And basically he 429 00:26:25,720 --> 00:26:31,519 has a theory of he's a stattician, brilliant, brilliant man, 430 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:35,359 and he he has a theory. I'm not going to 431 00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:37,680 get into it too much, but it's really fascinating about 432 00:26:37,759 --> 00:26:43,200 how we may be being observed, you know. So it's 433 00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:48,160 but it's fascinating. So historically this is something. Let's I 434 00:26:48,319 --> 00:26:51,240 since you kind of focus on the history of these things, 435 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,279 do you think that what do you think about the 436 00:26:57,319 --> 00:26:59,200 cover up? I mean, do you think it is do 437 00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,000 you think it's a part? My theory And you've probably 438 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:04,359 heard me say this before, is I think that the 439 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,960 government doesn't know everything, and because they don't know everything, 440 00:27:08,599 --> 00:27:10,559 they feel like a little bit of information out there 441 00:27:10,559 --> 00:27:13,279 would be dangerous. They can't say what's in the skies, 442 00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:16,279 they can't protect us, they can't say whether it's benevolent 443 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,839 or manevolent or any of that. So I just want 444 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,680 to know what your your thoughts are because a lot 445 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,359 of people do just assume the government is covering up. 446 00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,880 Speaker 2: I pretty much go along with what you just said 447 00:27:29,039 --> 00:27:33,720 that they don't know much more than us, and like 448 00:27:33,759 --> 00:27:39,720 you said, it's uncomfortable for the government to say, you know, 449 00:27:39,759 --> 00:27:41,680 we don't know what's in our skies and we can't 450 00:27:41,680 --> 00:27:43,319 protect you from it. I mean, the whole thing with 451 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,400 the drone situation that just happened. Yeah, that must have 452 00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:49,359 been a pr nightmare for. 453 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,559 Speaker 1: Them, you know, and it's still ongoing. This is why 454 00:27:51,559 --> 00:27:56,160 I'm glad you brought that up. Yeah, I think friends. 455 00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:58,160 Speaker 2: And coworkers are still coming up to me and saying, 456 00:27:58,319 --> 00:28:01,640 you know, I'm still seeing stuff. I had a friend 457 00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:07,359 who's and uh upper round, who has family and friends 458 00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:09,480 up around Pine Bush, and he said a buddy of 459 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:11,759 his called him and said, I'm looking at a drone 460 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,200 over my house, hovering silently, and he called it a 461 00:28:15,279 --> 00:28:20,400 drone the size of a Volkswagen. Yeah, it's like, okay. 462 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: And here's the thing. You know, that someone fed the 463 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:27,880 president information that the FAA said that they had, you know, 464 00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,359 permits for doing this, so they were doing it and 465 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:33,799 then but there's so much blowback from that. I think 466 00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:37,000 that was just it's kind of like when you know, 467 00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:40,079 when they closed Project Bluebook. They said, nothing to see here. 468 00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:42,720 It's kind of like just trying to keep you know, 469 00:28:42,799 --> 00:28:48,039 people from reporting on it, obviously, because supposedly it has 470 00:28:48,079 --> 00:28:50,680 to slow down all that much, and it's still happening 471 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:55,079 in these incur incursions on these bases, you know, I 472 00:28:55,160 --> 00:28:57,839 mean they don't they don't have the equipment, the right 473 00:28:57,839 --> 00:29:00,519 equipment to handle it. Now I'm not saying that alien. 474 00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:05,200 They could be, you know, adversaries getting spying and getting information. 475 00:29:05,519 --> 00:29:07,599 Whatever it is, it hasn't stopped. 476 00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, it's interesting being here, you know, firsthand, in 477 00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,359 the midst of it and seeing what constitutes a flap, 478 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:21,319 and it's interesting. What I find interesting is it's all 479 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,559 kinds of different causal factors, you know, from people actually 480 00:29:26,640 --> 00:29:31,440 seeing stuff they don't know what it is. Misidentification, is 481 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:38,640 some stuff actually mysterious, Possibly, is some stuff actually drones? Possibly? 482 00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,640 I mean, you know, there was a reporter's on air 483 00:29:43,799 --> 00:29:46,079 talking about drones and pointing them out, and they were 484 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:50,000 actually planes in queue line at Newark Airport. And so 485 00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:55,160 there's a reporter on air misidentifying airplanes. So it was 486 00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:58,799 so many different causal factors in the midst of this flap. 487 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:03,799 Really interesting thing I heard from a guest on another 488 00:30:03,839 --> 00:30:09,640 podcast was the fact that since everybody is reporting drones, 489 00:30:10,119 --> 00:30:13,359 it's easier to report a drone than it is to 490 00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:17,119 report a UFO or a flying saucer. You know, you 491 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,200 say I'm seeing a mysterious drone that gets everybody's attention, 492 00:30:21,279 --> 00:30:23,960 they'll take you seriously as opposed to saying, oh, I'm 493 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:27,640 reporting a UFO. So that's what made this thing really different. 494 00:30:27,640 --> 00:30:33,839 Speaker 1: From you know, you a V right, it's an unidentified 495 00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,640 aerial vehicle or something. Maybe I have that wrong U 496 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:44,440 a V VICTA. Yeah, yeah, so, but I don't you know, 497 00:30:44,519 --> 00:30:48,400 I I don't know. I know that. You know, the 498 00:30:48,400 --> 00:30:51,359 the witness, the first hand witness that I had on 499 00:30:51,559 --> 00:30:54,880 the show I did with I think it was Nick 500 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:57,039 Pope and markdy Antonio when I did a show on 501 00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:01,480 Drones Only, and I had this witness come on from 502 00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,799 New Jersey. She was seeing them long before people were 503 00:31:04,839 --> 00:31:07,839 reporting them. And you know, some of them were the 504 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,680 size of just what you said, a Volkswagen Beetle type 505 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,480 of thing, and some of them made noise, some of 506 00:31:13,519 --> 00:31:16,680 them didn't make noise. It's very very weird. You know, 507 00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:20,400 it seems like a mixture of weirdness and some explainable, 508 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:25,039 some not. Here's a good point from Terrence. Do you 509 00:31:25,119 --> 00:31:28,000 ever wonder why more people aren't curious about this ultimate 510 00:31:28,359 --> 00:31:31,759 life changing topic? Yes? I do. 511 00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:35,839 Speaker 2: I'll tell you what I like coming on these podcasts 512 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:39,119 because I can actually talk to somebody intelligently about the subject. 513 00:31:39,559 --> 00:31:43,799 Because nobody else wants to talk at length about this. Yeah, 514 00:31:43,839 --> 00:31:47,920 my coworkers, even though you know, I have one who 515 00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:50,519 you know, the guy whose family was up in pine 516 00:31:50,519 --> 00:31:57,960 Bush Hello, Ilia Ilia. His his wife and her father 517 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:05,880 and mother and I think a sibling all reported seeing 518 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:09,000 a UFO while they were driving, following it and then 519 00:32:09,119 --> 00:32:11,400 losing sight of it, and then when they got back 520 00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:15,200 to their house seeing the same UFO hovering over their house. 521 00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:17,279 Giant big one classic saucer. 522 00:32:18,759 --> 00:32:19,000 Speaker 1: Wow. 523 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:23,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, And you know, Eliot told me this story. But 524 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:25,680 if I want to talk to him, you know, at 525 00:32:25,799 --> 00:32:30,240 length at all about UFO, he just kind of drifts off. 526 00:32:31,119 --> 00:32:33,519 And you know, there's not many people that I can 527 00:32:33,519 --> 00:32:35,880 talk to it like about the subject. And there are 528 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,559 people that just outright will shut you down, just don't 529 00:32:39,599 --> 00:32:42,720 want to hear it. You know. It's oh, yeah, you know, you're. 530 00:32:45,079 --> 00:32:48,680 Speaker 1: My sister you know, she's you know, my sister's husband 531 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:53,880 worked at Los Almos Labs's brilliant guy, right, And and 532 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:57,319 I said to him when I first told him my 533 00:32:57,400 --> 00:33:00,200 sister and him, I do a show in UFO. What 534 00:33:00,279 --> 00:33:03,960 you think about that? And so his name is Wilburt, 535 00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,799 you could do the Wilbert but anyway, he goes, yeah, 536 00:33:08,559 --> 00:33:11,279 I could see that here he is a scientist, saying yeah, 537 00:33:11,279 --> 00:33:14,200 I could see. You know, it's possible we're being visited 538 00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:18,519 from My sister could care less. I sat her down 539 00:33:18,599 --> 00:33:22,279 and showed her the what I could of the aerial 540 00:33:22,319 --> 00:33:26,559 phenomenon is, look at these school children and they're being 541 00:33:26,599 --> 00:33:31,799 interviewed by this famous psychiatrial psychiatrist from Harvard and very 542 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:33,799 you know, I mean, this is just amazing. Don't you 543 00:33:33,839 --> 00:33:37,400 think this is a meaning? What's for dinner? That's that's 544 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,160 what I got to, what's for dinner? And you know 545 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,680 what do we She could you know, she's a sweet woman, 546 00:33:42,759 --> 00:33:46,480 but she could care less and she doesn't remember when 547 00:33:46,559 --> 00:33:49,759 my sister, my older sister, and her and I sat 548 00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,200 and we were watching over at P's Air Force Base, 549 00:33:52,519 --> 00:33:55,799 which is pretty well known for a lot of things, 550 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:59,920 and we saw something going up and down, and you know, 551 00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,559 doesn't remember any of that, you know, so it doesn't 552 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,160 doesn't care. But a lot of people, you know, are 553 00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:13,119 just concentrated on, you know, making money or paying the 554 00:34:13,159 --> 00:34:16,320 bills or whatever, and they're not even thinking about any 555 00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:19,159 of this stuff. We're a very it's a very small 556 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:25,239 niche what you might call it subculture. Yeah, yeah, that's right. 557 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:29,000 But I think it's fascinating and I you know, when 558 00:34:29,360 --> 00:34:32,360 I had my sighting in two thousand and seven, it 559 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:34,840 made me think, well, there's now I know for sure 560 00:34:34,880 --> 00:34:36,199 there's really something to this. 561 00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:37,159 Speaker 2: Yeah. 562 00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,039 Speaker 1: It was always like maybe there is maybe there you know, 563 00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:42,760 this was interesting that or whatever. 564 00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:47,599 Speaker 2: Would you consider yourself a knower, like, you know there's 565 00:34:47,599 --> 00:34:48,800 something I know. 566 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:50,880 Speaker 1: I would say, I know there is something to it, 567 00:34:50,960 --> 00:34:51,920 but I don't know what it is. 568 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:58,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I I'm I haven't had any 569 00:34:58,360 --> 00:35:01,039 sort of setting up my own, but I have had 570 00:35:01,079 --> 00:35:05,519 paranormal experiences. I've actually having a little ghost activity up 571 00:35:05,519 --> 00:35:08,920 at the over at the met I've talked about all right. 572 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: Well you know you're not going to get away without 573 00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:11,199 talking about that. 574 00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:16,119 Speaker 2: Well, the first thing that was happening is I would 575 00:35:16,119 --> 00:35:18,480 take naps on you know, with my feet up on 576 00:35:18,519 --> 00:35:23,159 my work bench during lunch, and in order to drown 577 00:35:23,199 --> 00:35:26,519 out the noise of my coworkers and be able to 578 00:35:26,599 --> 00:35:30,159 drift off, I listen to Motorhead. It's kind of like 579 00:35:30,559 --> 00:35:37,360 white noise. So naturally, often lunch will be over and 580 00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:40,760 I'll still be asleep, and my coworkers need to wake 581 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,159 me up, and they would kindly. I told them the 582 00:35:43,159 --> 00:35:45,079 best way to do it as a tap on my bench. 583 00:35:46,639 --> 00:35:49,960 But one occasion I felt somebody grab my toes jiggle 584 00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,119 my feet. I opened my eyes and say thank you 585 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:59,199 very much, and there's nobody there. And this has happened 586 00:35:59,199 --> 00:36:03,440 on more than on ecasion. And it's freaky because I 587 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,719 have never had that feeling at any other time. It's 588 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,800 not like a twitch I've had before or anything. I 589 00:36:09,960 --> 00:36:13,480 literally it feels like somebody grabbing my toes and jiggling 590 00:36:13,519 --> 00:36:18,239 my feet. And then in another episode, I have a 591 00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:21,599 pair of needle nose players. I weld over at the 592 00:36:21,679 --> 00:36:25,519 in the Metropolitan Opera Steel Shop, and I have these 593 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,760 needlenose players that are perfect for a welder. They you know, 594 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:32,679 they have all the little things you need to change 595 00:36:33,360 --> 00:36:35,719 your nozzle and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Clip 596 00:36:35,719 --> 00:36:39,039 your wire, and I put them down in plain sight. 597 00:36:39,159 --> 00:36:41,800 I turned around to get something. I turn around, They're gone. 598 00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:44,880 And it bugged me because I really liked them, and 599 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:47,400 I spent all day looking for them, turning everything over 600 00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:50,960 on my bench. They're not there. At the end of 601 00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,960 the day, in an absolutely clear, ba bare spot, I 602 00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,119 come up on my bench, I see them just sitting 603 00:36:58,199 --> 00:37:00,639 there in the middle of the bench in an open, 604 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:04,119 clear spot. And I was startled enough that I asked 605 00:37:04,119 --> 00:37:09,960 all my coworkers if they were messing me, and everybody said, no, Wow, don't. 606 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:11,880 Speaker 1: Anyone else talk about anything happening there. 607 00:37:12,199 --> 00:37:15,880 Speaker 2: I yeah. I had another coworker tell me he was 608 00:37:16,079 --> 00:37:19,400 on the stage when there was just what's called the 609 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:21,920 ghost like you know, they have a single light on 610 00:37:21,960 --> 00:37:24,960 the stage when nobody's doing anything on there. He said 611 00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:28,519 he was walking across the stage he saw somebody walking 612 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:33,199 by wearing a striped shirt, and as he followed him along, 613 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:37,519 he saw it completely vanished, like you know, just fade 614 00:37:37,559 --> 00:37:38,800 out and gone. 615 00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:46,239 Speaker 1: Wow. Yeah, yeah, I mean I actually, during a Halloween time, 616 00:37:46,280 --> 00:37:49,840 I did a special show like everything else show on 617 00:37:50,039 --> 00:37:53,320 ghost stories that I know. I mean, there's in one 618 00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:58,119 situation that happened to me. But I don't think I'm 619 00:37:58,119 --> 00:38:02,519 going to go into it again tonight. But anyway, I 620 00:38:02,559 --> 00:38:05,199 think there is something to it in which made me. 621 00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:14,039 I mean, something happened and it's explainable somehow, whether it's interdimensional, 622 00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:16,960 I mean, I have to say that is a possibility 623 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,800 in my mind when some of these things happen. And well, 624 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:22,280 you know, just. 625 00:38:23,039 --> 00:38:27,599 Speaker 2: Like you said, I've been writing, let's say, since twenty nineteen, 626 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:31,400 a blog every single week, so that's essentially a case 627 00:38:31,440 --> 00:38:33,840 every week pretty much that I've been looking at, yeah, 628 00:38:34,159 --> 00:38:39,519 fifty two weeks a year, six years, so that's three 629 00:38:39,599 --> 00:38:44,320 hundred cases saying that I've looked at, yeah, and in depth, 630 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:48,159 and you see patterns that come up again and again 631 00:38:48,199 --> 00:38:50,760 and again, and a lot of stuff that you know, I, 632 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:55,280 as a guy who's into this, didn't know before I 633 00:38:55,480 --> 00:39:00,000 started researching deeply. I didn't know about clean conjunctivitis, for instance. 634 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:05,519 I didn't know the whole car thing was prevalent. You know, 635 00:39:05,599 --> 00:39:10,440 cars shutting down absolutely prevalent throughout the literature, not just 636 00:39:10,559 --> 00:39:23,199 level in Texas sunburn, people having getting messages, you know, 637 00:39:23,719 --> 00:39:27,400 like somebody's talking to them inside their head, and you know, 638 00:39:27,559 --> 00:39:35,199 pattern after pattern, just repeated claims in people's reports. They 639 00:39:35,199 --> 00:39:38,760 come up again and again and again and again. And 640 00:39:39,119 --> 00:39:41,639 if you know, if I didn't know them, the likelihood 641 00:39:41,639 --> 00:39:46,800 that the witness reporting it knew that other people reported 642 00:39:46,800 --> 00:39:49,679 this is very low in my mind. So that adds 643 00:39:49,679 --> 00:39:51,400 a lot of credibility to the reports. 644 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:58,280 Speaker 1: M M. Yeah. This is an interesting question that a 645 00:39:58,320 --> 00:40:00,719 lot of people do ask, and one about do you 646 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,400 think that you thank you, Terrence. Do you think that 647 00:40:04,559 --> 00:40:09,840 UFOs and paranormal activity are related? I know, Paul Eno, 648 00:40:09,960 --> 00:40:14,599 I don't know if you know who Paul Absolute, Yeah, yeah, yeah, great, Ben, 649 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:19,440 Paul and Ben. It was inter dimensional and it was all, 650 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:26,920 you know, related, which is pretty fascinating, you know, to 651 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:31,280 think of. I don't know. I think that's another really 652 00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:34,360 good question. And I've heard a lot of people say, well, 653 00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,039 UFO shouldn't be part of paranormal because people are actually 654 00:40:38,079 --> 00:40:41,039 seeing these things and we have on radar and trace 655 00:40:41,079 --> 00:40:44,599 evidences and so it shouldn't be part of paranormal. It's 656 00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:47,519 but I don't know, you know what I mean, we 657 00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:50,079 don't have any bigfoot evidence to speak of that I 658 00:40:50,159 --> 00:40:52,599 know of. I don't know, you know, if you want 659 00:40:52,599 --> 00:40:55,159 to group it in and the ghosts thing, these are all. 660 00:40:55,719 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 2: If you do go over to our buddy Stan Gordon, 661 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:03,559 were theremania. I mean, he's the Bigfoot and UFOs and 662 00:41:03,679 --> 00:41:08,239 needs together and more activity as well. I personally think 663 00:41:08,239 --> 00:41:12,400 they're related, but I don't rule out the idea that 664 00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:17,480 there might also be extra visitors from other planets, galaxies 665 00:41:17,559 --> 00:41:23,360 or universes. I don't rule that out, but I you know, 666 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:27,280 it could be both. You know, it could be something 667 00:41:27,320 --> 00:41:31,039 emulating UFOs. You know, the possibilities are endless. 668 00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:35,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, here's here's something. Someone a statement. Uh, there's no 669 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:41,079 doubt that some consciousness connection. There is some consciousness connection. 670 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,679 A lot of people talk about that. You know, I'm 671 00:41:43,679 --> 00:41:48,599 a big john understanding don't really I'm sorry, No, I'm 672 00:41:48,639 --> 00:41:53,480 just saying I never really understand exactly how that works. 673 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:56,039 I've had people try to explain it to me, the 674 00:41:56,119 --> 00:42:02,360 consciousness connection and UFO. I don't understand it. I don't 675 00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:03,400 understand the connection. 676 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,639 Speaker 2: Well, I mean, if you go with the idea that 677 00:42:06,639 --> 00:42:13,960 consciousness doesn't isn't necessarily something that exists in the brain, 678 00:42:16,679 --> 00:42:21,239 and the idea of a universal consciousness, and then you know, 679 00:42:21,360 --> 00:42:28,400 you can really get into a lot of Eastern mysticism. 680 00:42:28,599 --> 00:42:32,239 It's trying to explain this, but you know, the idea 681 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:36,960 that our individual consciousnesses are just expressions of one larger 682 00:42:37,159 --> 00:42:41,760 uber consciousness is one concept. And then there's also the 683 00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:45,760 idea that part of that uber consciousness is something that 684 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:50,239 likes to mess with us, maybe just to give us 685 00:42:50,280 --> 00:42:54,360 little lessons in life. I've heard people speculate that way, 686 00:42:56,840 --> 00:43:01,000 So yeah, you know, that's an idea I absolutely entertain. 687 00:43:03,320 --> 00:43:05,719 Speaker 1: Here's a here's a question here how how does it 688 00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:08,559 exists outside of the brain. I just heard this theory 689 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:12,320 on I can't remember who who said it exactly, but 690 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:17,559 he was saying, picture that you're flying a drone and 691 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:21,480 you're seeing everything that the drone is seeing, and then 692 00:43:22,639 --> 00:43:27,559 the drone crashes or something, but you are the consciousness 693 00:43:27,599 --> 00:43:30,719 and the drone was the physical. You know. That's how 694 00:43:30,760 --> 00:43:33,199 he was trying to say, how there is a master 695 00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:37,519 consciousness and you're you're like the drone out there. 696 00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:43,599 Speaker 2: Yeah that's that's pretty good, you know, but yeah, yeah, 697 00:43:43,599 --> 00:43:46,519 that's well, I'd like that. That's a really good metaphor. 698 00:43:47,880 --> 00:43:52,239 But the you know, there's there's a concept that the 699 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:57,719 entire universe is consciousness. And that we are expressions. Every 700 00:43:57,880 --> 00:44:00,800 little thing in it is an expression of that consciousness. 701 00:44:02,079 --> 00:44:05,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, So I have to ask you, of all 702 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:11,480 these cases that you've written about, is there one that 703 00:44:11,559 --> 00:44:14,280 you've written about that you thought, wow, this is just 704 00:44:14,480 --> 00:44:18,280 when you started looking into it and digging deep, that 705 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:22,480 you just said, wow, this is like really really bizarre. 706 00:44:22,559 --> 00:44:25,840 I mean, can you think of, you know, some instances 707 00:44:26,079 --> 00:44:29,840 of cases that are you just just think really stand out. 708 00:44:30,159 --> 00:44:35,239 Speaker 2: My absolute favorite is Zamfretta. This is the one Italian. 709 00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:43,000 He was an Italian security guard and he was driving 710 00:44:43,039 --> 00:44:47,960 one night and he was checking out a disturbance and 711 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:54,159 he saw this big horseshoe shaped Oh no, that was 712 00:44:54,199 --> 00:44:56,760 after he saw a craft and a creature. And the 713 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,840 creature was just this bizarre creature. I think it had 714 00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:05,360 yellow eyes. It was I think nine feet tall. It 715 00:45:05,440 --> 00:45:09,119 was kind of lizard like an appearance, what looked like 716 00:45:09,559 --> 00:45:14,800 gills and spikes sticking out of its neck. I think 717 00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:21,280 he described it having a grill for mouth and the 718 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:25,519 I think he confronted it with his gun and he 719 00:45:25,559 --> 00:45:28,360 got knocked out and the creature took off and there 720 00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:30,639 was a trace evidence left behind in terms of a 721 00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:35,679 landing mark. An Italian journalist wrote about it and wrote 722 00:45:35,719 --> 00:45:38,000 a whole book about it. I think it's called the 723 00:45:38,199 --> 00:45:45,519 Zamfretta Experience possibly. But what's really interesting is he would 724 00:45:45,599 --> 00:45:48,559 go out on patrol in his car. I think it 725 00:45:48,559 --> 00:45:52,440 was a little Fiat and there's a really mountainous region 726 00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:55,760 of Italy. I for it's been a while since I 727 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:58,440 wrote about it. I forget the actual region right now, 728 00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:04,760 but very mountainous red and on one occasion they lost 729 00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:07,519 contact with him. I think he was reporting that the 730 00:46:07,559 --> 00:46:10,599 car was taking off on its own uphill and that 731 00:46:10,679 --> 00:46:15,559 he wasn't controlling it. And then when they finally but 732 00:46:15,599 --> 00:46:17,559 they sent out a search party to find him and 733 00:46:17,599 --> 00:46:21,079 found the car on the side of the road and 734 00:46:21,239 --> 00:46:24,079 him not in it, and found him on the over 735 00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:27,159 on a ledge on the other side of a cliff, 736 00:46:28,079 --> 00:46:32,000 and they got him up and he was really hot. 737 00:46:32,039 --> 00:46:34,199 The inside of the car was really hot. 738 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:35,679 Speaker 1: And then he. 739 00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:40,039 Speaker 2: Started telling stories of being taken aboard a craft. The 740 00:46:40,119 --> 00:46:44,480 creature actually talked to him, other creatures like him, and 741 00:46:44,599 --> 00:46:47,360 you know, so this whole contact ye kind of case 742 00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:49,639 came out of it. I think this was in nineteen 743 00:46:49,679 --> 00:46:50,519 seventy eight too. 744 00:46:51,039 --> 00:46:53,639 Speaker 1: I was going to ask you when there was Yeah, yeah, yeah. 745 00:46:53,960 --> 00:46:57,920 Speaker 2: And so the journalist who was investigating the case and 746 00:46:58,000 --> 00:47:01,119 ended up writing the book, did something really interesting. He 747 00:47:01,239 --> 00:47:05,039 rigged the car. He put a thermometer in there that 748 00:47:05,079 --> 00:47:08,639 would record the highest temperature in the car, and he 749 00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:13,599 wired up. He put tables on the wheels tied to 750 00:47:13,639 --> 00:47:16,480 the frame that would snap. I think they're connected from 751 00:47:16,519 --> 00:47:18,880 the axle to the frame, so if the car was 752 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:22,960 lifted up, the axle would drop, the cables would snap, 753 00:47:23,159 --> 00:47:26,000 and he'd have evidence that it was actually lifted up. 754 00:47:26,559 --> 00:47:29,960 And sure enough, there was an episode he went missing. 755 00:47:30,039 --> 00:47:33,000 They went looking for them him the same thing with 756 00:47:33,039 --> 00:47:37,719 the car being hot and the temperature, the the thermometer 757 00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,440 registered a really high temperature and the cables were actually snapped. 758 00:47:43,559 --> 00:47:46,599 So this case made all the papers in Italy, made 759 00:47:46,639 --> 00:47:49,679 international news. It's called the Zamfreta case. 760 00:47:50,639 --> 00:47:51,679 Speaker 1: Wow, that's fascinating. 761 00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:55,280 Speaker 2: It's amazing case and it's crazy. But you know, then 762 00:47:55,360 --> 00:47:59,840 you have the guy investigating it who was not a UFO, 763 00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:04,320 he was an actual journalist, and yeah, and it's actually 764 00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:04,960 got evidence. 765 00:48:05,079 --> 00:48:06,599 Speaker 1: You know, do you happen to remember what kind of 766 00:48:06,679 --> 00:48:07,159 car was? 767 00:48:07,599 --> 00:48:10,079 Speaker 2: I think it was a Fiat that's. 768 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:14,400 Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, there was that case you wrote about that 769 00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:19,239 I thought was really fascinating where the woman I thought 770 00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:23,599 she was abducted, she showed up like many many miles away. 771 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,719 You did a couple of blogs on it. Do you 772 00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:26,440 remember that one? 773 00:48:26,559 --> 00:48:28,559 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, I think I was a but he a 774 00:48:28,599 --> 00:48:30,079 Blanca case Argentina. 775 00:48:30,679 --> 00:48:34,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, irma, Now that wasn't that long ago. Every once 776 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:35,679 in a while, right. 777 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what's really need about. 778 00:48:37,199 --> 00:48:40,519 Speaker 1: It, contemporary of what's what's happening. 779 00:48:40,760 --> 00:48:42,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, but it was a great case. I mean, she 780 00:48:42,559 --> 00:48:46,039 she reported a big ball of light and then flash. 781 00:48:46,400 --> 00:48:50,519 She was hundreds of kilometers away from where she was 782 00:48:50,679 --> 00:48:52,599 and she opens her eyes sitting on the side of 783 00:48:52,639 --> 00:48:55,360 the road with her I think her cellphone was in 784 00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,519 her pocket, and just absolutely mystified as to how she 785 00:48:59,599 --> 00:49:04,039 got there. There was an investigation for as a missing person, 786 00:49:04,679 --> 00:49:08,880 I mean as a possible abduction, so there's an actual 787 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:17,000 official investigation, and yeah, it looked like a really good case. Yeah, 788 00:49:18,159 --> 00:49:20,400 I'm pretty sure her first name is Ema. I wish 789 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,480 I could remember her last name, but the follow up 790 00:49:24,519 --> 00:49:29,280 to it was her. She was a real simple like 791 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:36,159 a farmer's wife, and I think the spotlight kind of 792 00:49:36,199 --> 00:49:38,559 got to her and she also got to I think 793 00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:43,079 she became really concerned that she'd been impregnated, and so 794 00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:48,519 she's being interviewed on television, on live TV and on 795 00:49:48,559 --> 00:49:52,360 my TV. She actually hit the reporter up for some 796 00:49:52,480 --> 00:49:58,440 money so she could get a a pregnancy test. So yeah, 797 00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,280 that kind of it put a spin on that tail. 798 00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:06,679 But the original report, it seems really credible and really interesting. 799 00:50:07,199 --> 00:50:10,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, and there was another I'm sorry, good, no, go 800 00:50:10,360 --> 00:50:10,840 ahead and finish. 801 00:50:11,159 --> 00:50:13,519 Speaker 2: Oh. I said. There was another contemporary case from I 802 00:50:13,599 --> 00:50:16,320 think twenty eighteen that I really loved was a woman 803 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:20,280 in Florida claimed she saw a creature that had a 804 00:50:20,519 --> 00:50:24,360 like bugged out eyes. I think she said it was 805 00:50:24,599 --> 00:50:26,480 another really tall one. I think it was like a 806 00:50:26,559 --> 00:50:30,199 nine foot tall creature with a huge jaw she compared 807 00:50:30,280 --> 00:50:34,960 to our jaws. If he compared our jaw to a chihuahuas, 808 00:50:35,079 --> 00:50:37,280 it would be like comparing its jaw to our jaw. 809 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:40,960 And she said she saw a walk across her yard 810 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,599 and then climb up an invisible ladder into an invisible 811 00:50:44,679 --> 00:50:48,800 craft and pull itself up in that its body disappeared 812 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,000 up into the craft as it went up into it. 813 00:50:52,079 --> 00:50:55,199 So that was a really interesting report and that was 814 00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:58,519 very very you know, twenty eighteen. So occasionally I get 815 00:50:58,599 --> 00:51:01,000 lucky and find something contemporary. 816 00:51:01,519 --> 00:51:06,159 Speaker 1: Now, did you I can't remember, did you remember Ronnie Verney? 817 00:51:07,079 --> 00:51:09,599 And I'm trying to think of where they saw those 818 00:51:09,679 --> 00:51:12,519 They were thinking that people were in jet packs and 819 00:51:12,559 --> 00:51:14,880 then they thought they were aliens. Did you write on 820 00:51:14,960 --> 00:51:15,880 that one? I can't remember. 821 00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I wrote, I wrote a pretty deep, extensive 822 00:51:19,079 --> 00:51:19,679 blog on that. 823 00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,960 Speaker 1: Okay, I'm just wondering, had we only got a couple 824 00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,199 of minutes here, but had that ever panned out to 825 00:51:27,239 --> 00:51:30,880 any more information? Do you know, have you had you 826 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:34,719 followed that recently? You know, I know that was like 827 00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:36,440 a year or two ago. I can't remember. 828 00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:39,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, now, they they pretty much got dropped once 829 00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:45,119 the officials said it was drug cartels in jet packs. 830 00:51:45,840 --> 00:51:47,239 Everybody just left it alone. 831 00:51:48,159 --> 00:51:50,400 Speaker 1: But they're like jet packs, like two hundred and fifty 832 00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:53,800 thousand dollars. They were the only lasted for twelve minutes 833 00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:54,760 or something exactly. 834 00:51:54,840 --> 00:51:56,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, there were a lot of problems with that story. 835 00:51:57,119 --> 00:52:02,000 And what's in interesting is there's a history in that 836 00:52:02,119 --> 00:52:07,679 region of the indigenous peoples having stories like that of 837 00:52:08,960 --> 00:52:12,159 uh so I wrote about that. Somebody actually wrote a 838 00:52:12,159 --> 00:52:15,559 paper on that, and it goes way back and it 839 00:52:15,639 --> 00:52:22,360 ties into people the government and multinational corporations moving in 840 00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:29,280 and taking their land and terrorizing them. And and there's 841 00:52:29,519 --> 00:52:32,400 they have their own mythos that has grown up around 842 00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:37,760 that of creatures and transparent craft coming down to get them, 843 00:52:38,199 --> 00:52:41,280 as well as kind of creatures and jetpack kind of stories. 844 00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:46,360 But you know, there's definitely more to the story, and 845 00:52:46,639 --> 00:52:52,159 it's definitely it really doesn't look like it was drug 846 00:52:52,199 --> 00:52:56,599 cartels and no, it was illegal gold miners that yeah, 847 00:52:56,639 --> 00:52:57,280 illegal gold. 848 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:02,719 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes. So let's say we've got less than a 849 00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,920 minute here. So the name of your book that just 850 00:53:05,960 --> 00:53:06,599 came out. 851 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:09,320 Speaker 2: Oh, well, it's the second edition of an second edition 852 00:53:09,679 --> 00:53:13,320 of The Flying Saucer Investigators. Yeah. I had to republish 853 00:53:13,360 --> 00:53:17,400 it because my former publisher is having health problems and 854 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:22,559 it's shutting down is publishing operation. So I in order 855 00:53:22,559 --> 00:53:24,480 to keep it out there, I had to put it 856 00:53:24,519 --> 00:53:28,079 out myself. So but I tightened it up, made a 857 00:53:28,199 --> 00:53:33,800 nice six by nine format, really clean it up, tighten 858 00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:37,599 it up, and it's something I'm very pleased with. And 859 00:53:38,480 --> 00:53:42,840 unfortunately I am competing against myself. So the old edition 860 00:53:43,639 --> 00:53:48,199 tight of Flying Saucer investigators. The old edition shows up. 861 00:53:48,679 --> 00:53:51,039 You can tell the new edition because it's got a 862 00:53:51,159 --> 00:53:54,760 nice picture of two flying black and white flying saucers. 863 00:53:56,519 --> 00:53:59,159 It's actually a hoax picture taken from England, but it 864 00:53:59,199 --> 00:53:59,760 looks great. 865 00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:00,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. 866 00:54:01,039 --> 00:54:04,360 Speaker 2: And if you go to Amazon dot com and type 867 00:54:04,360 --> 00:54:07,199 in Charles Lear in the search, that book and my 868 00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:09,880 other books should show up, all right. 869 00:54:09,800 --> 00:54:12,400 Speaker 1: And I'll I'll link it down below. But thank you 870 00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:14,480 so much. I can't believe how fast the hour went. 871 00:54:14,679 --> 00:54:17,320 It was a lot of fun. Always fun chatting. And 872 00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,199 thank you so much for all the work you do 873 00:54:19,559 --> 00:54:22,719 in your blogs every week. And I know everyone appreciates that. 874 00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:27,960 I hear that all the time from people, So thank you, thank. 875 00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:30,199 Speaker 2: You, Thank you. Mar Its fun to talk. 876 00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:33,039 Speaker 1: Cheers all right, yes, all right everyone, So don't forget. 877 00:54:33,079 --> 00:54:37,320 Next week we have Professor Robin Hanson and it's going 878 00:54:37,360 --> 00:54:39,920 to be a great show. And then I do believe 879 00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,679 I'm doing a show the same night, two shows, one 880 00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:47,519 with Ron Jannix and Dean Eliotto. So we'll see you 881 00:54:47,639 --> 00:55:04,079 next week. Remember to keep your eyes to the sky.