1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,279
Speaker 1: Should we start with the Taylor Swift part of this. Yeah,

2
00:00:03,399 --> 00:00:08,240
this involves Live Nation and Ticketmaster and lawsuits and controversies,

3
00:00:08,279 --> 00:00:11,119
and and as I always say, whenever we talk about

4
00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:14,160
this stuff, you know, it seems like, UH, Live Nation

5
00:00:14,199 --> 00:00:17,079
and Ticketmaster comes up a lot on the show when

6
00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,600
we talk about music news and lawsuits and litigation and

7
00:00:20,519 --> 00:00:23,519
Department of Justice investigations and so forth. They're always in

8
00:00:23,559 --> 00:00:26,039
the news. But this is the article that you sent me.

9
00:00:26,120 --> 00:00:31,519
This is from UH Complete fo Yeah, Complete Music Update

10
00:00:31,559 --> 00:00:34,640
dot com. Yep, this just this just went up a

11
00:00:34,679 --> 00:00:37,840
couple of days ago. Taylor Swift and Barclays Center ticketing

12
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:44,240
controversies prove monopolist Live Nation is damaging live music, Department

13
00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:48,159
of Justice tells jury. UH. The Live Nation antitrust trial

14
00:00:48,359 --> 00:00:51,439
got properly under way this week, with lawyers for the

15
00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:56,880
US Department of Justice and the Live giant UH delivering

16
00:00:57,079 --> 00:00:58,520
their opening statements.

17
00:00:59,119 --> 00:00:59,200
Speaker 2: UH.

18
00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:03,719
Speaker 1: Ticketing dramas involving Taylor Swift and New York's Barclays Center

19
00:01:04,000 --> 00:01:06,799
were a key part of the proceedings. So let's take

20
00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:11,000
a look at this. So, according to this article, the

21
00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,159
concert ticket industry is broken. In fact, the concert industry

22
00:01:14,159 --> 00:01:17,359
itself is broken and because both concerts and ticketing are

23
00:01:17,359 --> 00:01:21,120
controlled by a monopolist, and that monopolist is Live Nation.

24
00:01:21,599 --> 00:01:24,680
Those were the bold words of US Department of Justice

25
00:01:24,760 --> 00:01:29,480
lawyer David Dahlquist on day one of the big Live

26
00:01:29,599 --> 00:01:35,040
Nation antitrust trial in New York yesterday. All right, I'm sorry, Well,

27
00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:37,200
so this would have been the third because this article

28
00:01:37,439 --> 00:01:42,560
went up on the fourth a trial. The Live giants,

29
00:01:42,640 --> 00:01:45,439
lawyers and lobbyists tried very hard, indeed, to ensure what

30
00:01:45,599 --> 00:01:49,840
never happen, according to the DOJ and attorneys general for

31
00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:53,159
forty US states. So forty US states are participating in

32
00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:58,079
this Live Nation and its Ticketmaster subsidiary unlawfully exploit their

33
00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:02,079
market dominance at shows, venues, and ticketing to the detriment

34
00:02:02,159 --> 00:02:05,719
of artists, fans, and the wider music community. Live Nation

35
00:02:05,799 --> 00:02:09,319
strongly denies all these allegations, of course, and it's now

36
00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,479
for a jury to hear arguments from both sides and

37
00:02:12,599 --> 00:02:15,400
decide who is right. By the way, this is a

38
00:02:15,479 --> 00:02:18,759
side note. It is surprising, and I think we talked

39
00:02:18,759 --> 00:02:22,719
about this before that the Department of Justice under the

40
00:02:22,759 --> 00:02:26,439
current administration actually cares about any of this. But they

41
00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,680
but they do so good.

42
00:02:28,879 --> 00:02:32,360
Speaker 3: Happily surprised that that it is on the radar because

43
00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:35,960
we've talked about this for years and the artists are

44
00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:37,479
the ones who get ripped.

45
00:02:37,199 --> 00:02:42,360
Speaker 1: Off well and you know the consumers well, I mean

46
00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,000
we've talked about of course that's the shady course, the

47
00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:47,479
shady practices of uh.

48
00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:50,039
Speaker 3: But it's like you always I always think about the

49
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,360
artists like they bust their took us as they go

50
00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,080
from state to state pilon in shows and it's like

51
00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,560
they get pennies on the dollar for the tickets. The

52
00:02:59,599 --> 00:03:02,919
people are coming to see them, right, But it's the

53
00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,400
people selling everything that make the majority of the money. Boy,

54
00:03:06,439 --> 00:03:07,439
that sounds like healthcare.

55
00:03:07,479 --> 00:03:10,199
Speaker 1: Well they make Uh, they make the money on merch.

56
00:03:10,280 --> 00:03:12,479
Merch is where the money is for the artists. It's

57
00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,400
not on it's not on ticket sales.

58
00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,240
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, it's not include it doesn't include ticket sales, and

59
00:03:18,319 --> 00:03:20,280
it should. Uh.

60
00:03:20,319 --> 00:03:22,120
Speaker 2: There are some artists that try to rebel.

61
00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,280
Speaker 1: So it says here from the off Dohlquist and the

62
00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:30,599
other Dave Live Nations Legal Rep. Dave Marriott of Latham

63
00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:34,039
and Watkins Watkins, ll P began the Battle of the

64
00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,719
stats because both Daves have stats to hand, uh to hand,

65
00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:41,599
which they claim prove that they are right. Yes, both

66
00:03:41,639 --> 00:03:44,360
sides are represented by Dave, both of whom claim the

67
00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,680
stats back up their case, which isn't at all confusing.

68
00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,199
According to do o J Dave aka mister Dahlquist, the

69
00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,000
author of this article was having a little too much

70
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,199
fun with this, Dave. It's a little too much little.

71
00:03:56,479 --> 00:03:57,840
It's actually a little annoying.

72
00:03:57,919 --> 00:04:00,520
Speaker 2: It makes a confusing it's not helpful.

73
00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:06,360
Speaker 1: According to DAJO DOJ Dave aka mister Dolquist, Live Nation

74
00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,479
controls eighty six percent of large concert ticketing in the Oh,

75
00:04:09,479 --> 00:04:12,360
that's not a monopoly of large concert two no, not

76
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,319
at all in the US, and seventy eight percent of

77
00:04:14,319 --> 00:04:18,839
the country's amphitheater venues, which we can all agree sounds

78
00:04:18,879 --> 00:04:22,319
like something we should be worried about. But of ticketing

79
00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:25,439
at large, Ticketmaster has a forty percent market share and

80
00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:30,519
for venues twenty percent. Live Nation Dave or mister Marriott countered.

81
00:04:30,879 --> 00:04:33,360
One of Live's Nation's key arguments is that the DOJ

82
00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:37,480
is slice the entertainment market up into artificial segments in

83
00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,600
order to make it look like the Live Giant is

84
00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:42,720
much more dominant than it really is. It seems likely

85
00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:45,959
that this stat bickering will continue throughout the trial, though

86
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:50,040
what jurys really like his stories, and yesterday's opening statements

87
00:04:50,079 --> 00:04:53,319
had two good stories to tell, which illustrate the tangible

88
00:04:53,319 --> 00:04:57,279
negative impact of Live Nation's monopoly or not, depending on

89
00:04:57,319 --> 00:05:00,759
which Dave you believe. Story one, Once upon a time

90
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:02,519
there was an arena venue in New York called the

91
00:05:02,560 --> 00:05:05,759
Barclays Center, and one day it decided to change its

92
00:05:05,759 --> 00:05:10,759
ticketing provider from Ticketmaster to seat Geek. Except the next day,

93
00:05:11,759 --> 00:05:16,079
well about eighteen months later, it switched back to Ticketmaster.

94
00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:19,040
So what happened? I mean, we know there was an

95
00:05:19,079 --> 00:05:23,079
angry phone call involving Live Nation CEO Michael Rapino, But

96
00:05:23,199 --> 00:05:26,079
did Live Nation actually use its dominance in arena level

97
00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,920
touring to force the arena to return to its ticketing

98
00:05:29,959 --> 00:05:32,600
business or was seat Geek just not up to the

99
00:05:32,639 --> 00:05:37,600
task for providing primary ticketing for New York's big arena venue. So,

100
00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:41,319
in other words, you know, did Live Nation somehow strong

101
00:05:41,439 --> 00:05:44,639
arm the Barclays Center and in doing so did they

102
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,240
potentially do something illegal? So, getting back to the article,

103
00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:52,759
according to DOJ lawyer Dohlquist, while management at Barclays Center

104
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,120
wanted to use seat Geek for their ticketing. It became

105
00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:58,279
very clear of that quote if they didn't use Ticketmaster,

106
00:05:58,560 --> 00:06:03,319
Live Nation's touring division and wouldn't send them any concerts unquote.

107
00:06:03,879 --> 00:06:07,839
So basically, when Barclay Center moved its ticketing to seat Geek, quote,

108
00:06:07,879 --> 00:06:11,560
live Nation punished them and they were forced to go

109
00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:17,600
back to Ticketmaster unquote. Before we go any further, that

110
00:06:17,680 --> 00:06:23,279
raises a question, is that, is that where is the

111
00:06:23,319 --> 00:06:33,399
line between between just being hardball hardcore business people. Where's

112
00:06:33,439 --> 00:06:38,439
the line between that and just being outright predatory? And

113
00:06:38,519 --> 00:06:39,600
I don't know the answer.

114
00:06:39,759 --> 00:06:42,160
Speaker 2: I think they crossed it a while ago. I think

115
00:06:42,199 --> 00:06:44,399
they are predatory.

116
00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,759
Speaker 1: Is is that but that example, specifically, Okay, you're not

117
00:06:47,800 --> 00:06:49,519
going to use our ticketing business. We're just not going

118
00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:52,439
to send you anymore because we're this powerful, We're just

119
00:06:52,439 --> 00:06:55,160
not gonna send you any more big shows, right?

120
00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:56,199
Speaker 2: Is that?

121
00:06:57,879 --> 00:07:00,759
Speaker 1: I mean? Technically, are you going is your order here?

122
00:07:00,759 --> 00:07:03,639
Your coffee order? Yeah, okay, Jenny's going to get her

123
00:07:03,680 --> 00:07:05,920
coffee order. But I just but I just I pose

124
00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:09,920
that question, like, like, where is the line between you know,

125
00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:14,160
just playing hardball and actually doing something that would be

126
00:07:14,199 --> 00:07:18,040
considered predatory and therefore potentially illegal or at least leaving

127
00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,040
you vulnerable in some sort of civil action. I asked

128
00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,959
that question. I'm not a legal expert of any kind.

129
00:07:24,680 --> 00:07:27,439
Uh So I don't know the answer. I'm just asking,

130
00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:30,879
and I guess you know it's subjective. But okay, getting

131
00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,000
back to the article. But the Live Nation chief never

132
00:07:33,120 --> 00:07:35,920
threatened to stop concerts being promoted by his company's Story

133
00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:39,160
division from being staged at the New York Arena and

134
00:07:39,199 --> 00:07:42,279
the Barclay Center ultimately returned to Ticketmaster quote not because

135
00:07:42,319 --> 00:07:45,040
of any threats, but because seat geek fell down on

136
00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:49,439
the job unquote. Okay, story number two. Once upon a

137
00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,839
time there was a singer called Taylor Swift who decided

138
00:07:51,879 --> 00:07:54,680
to sing some of her songs on an airass tour.

139
00:07:55,199 --> 00:07:58,560
She appointed Ticketmaster to send her tickets, but on the

140
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:01,360
day the tickets went on sale, Oh to sell her

141
00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,560
tickets rather, But on the day the tickets went on sale,

142
00:08:04,839 --> 00:08:08,519
everything crashed, resulting in a lot of very angry Swift fans.

143
00:08:09,279 --> 00:08:11,319
I remember that we talked about that on the show,

144
00:08:11,839 --> 00:08:13,879
Oh Dear. But here's the question. Did it all go

145
00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:17,519
wrong because the Live Nation ticketing company got complacent because

146
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:20,519
it enjoys a virtual monopoly over concert ticketing and as

147
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:23,920
a result failed to build a decent it infrastructure or

148
00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:29,720
was the demand for Swift's tickets, including from dubious Bot

149
00:08:29,879 --> 00:08:35,120
using ticket touts, at an unprecedented high, and there isn't

150
00:08:35,120 --> 00:08:38,200
a ticketing platform in the world that could have copied

151
00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:43,519
in those circumstances. By the way, I tend to think that,

152
00:08:43,759 --> 00:08:46,960
you know, I mean, if anyone has the necessary infrastructure

153
00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,360
to handle the demand for a big tour like that,

154
00:08:50,639 --> 00:08:54,519
it would be Live Nation and Ticketmaster, right, so probably

155
00:08:54,639 --> 00:08:56,799
the latter. There just isn't a ticketing platform in the

156
00:08:56,799 --> 00:09:00,799
world that could have handled that without But I do

157
00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:03,240
remember we covered that on the show. Okay, continuing on

158
00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,559
with the article, Well, according to Dohlquist, the Swift debacle

159
00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:10,080
was simply emblematic of a company that has little competitive

160
00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:13,559
incentive to build a consumer friendly ticketing product that is

161
00:09:13,600 --> 00:09:17,559
fit for purpose. He said, quote, their technology is held

162
00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:21,480
together by duct tape. They have prioritized growth over maintaining

163
00:09:21,519 --> 00:09:24,399
their systems unquote. And by the way, that's very common,

164
00:09:24,519 --> 00:09:26,840
very common in business. A lot of tech companies or

165
00:09:26,919 --> 00:09:30,799
companies that rely on tech will do that, you know.

166
00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:34,120
They they're so focused on growing and growing and growing

167
00:09:34,159 --> 00:09:37,960
their market share, that maybe some of their infrastructure is

168
00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,559
left to not keep up with what they're trying to do,

169
00:09:42,279 --> 00:09:45,639
and they you know, and sometimes websites crash as a

170
00:09:45,679 --> 00:09:50,679
result of it. It happens, Okay, So Marriott countered that, yes,

171
00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:53,759
the Taylor Swift launch was a debacle, and Ticketmaster never

172
00:09:53,799 --> 00:09:57,879
has denied that fact. But this was the single largest

173
00:09:57,960 --> 00:10:02,159
on sale ever or her tour. Taylor Swift, and the

174
00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,720
cyber attacks by touts and other rogue parties created challenges

175
00:10:05,759 --> 00:10:08,200
that no other ticketing company could have dealt with any better.

176
00:10:08,559 --> 00:10:14,240
The Barclay Center bust up and Taylor Swift the Taylor

177
00:10:14,279 --> 00:10:16,960
Swift on sale are likely to be referenced throughout the trial,

178
00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:21,279
with the DOJ keen to present these events as tangible

179
00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:25,799
proof of live Music's monopoly problem, while Live Nation will

180
00:10:25,799 --> 00:10:30,000
insist these are instead incidents that have been misrepresented. Ultimately,

181
00:10:30,039 --> 00:10:32,000
the case swings on whether there is enough evidence to

182
00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,320
show that Live Nation routinely ties its venue management, tour promotions,

183
00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,480
and ticketing services together in a way that specifically violates

184
00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,320
US laws at a federal or state level. Though a

185
00:10:42,399 --> 00:10:45,000
jury is involved, the stats and stories will likely be

186
00:10:45,039 --> 00:10:48,360
a key part of the narrative as the proceedings progress

187
00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:53,240
and the two daves present their respective arguments. Okay, now

188
00:10:53,279 --> 00:11:01,480
we have a second article that kind of expands on

189
00:11:01,519 --> 00:11:04,600
that because it's directly related to that. Now, this is

190
00:11:04,600 --> 00:11:06,639
from Digital Music News, which is one of my favorite

191
00:11:06,639 --> 00:11:11,120
websites to get music news from. Check this out, and

192
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:13,879
it's got kind of a provocative title to this article.

193
00:11:14,279 --> 00:11:19,879
What is Live Nation retaliation insurance? You don't want to know?

194
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:24,960
That's that's the title of this article. Yeah, yeah, so

195
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:30,200
you know, because we're talking about Live Nation and there

196
00:11:30,360 --> 00:11:34,039
what could be considered predatory business practices. Okay, and again

197
00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:37,159
this is from Digital Musicnews dot com. Former BSE Global

198
00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:42,799
CEO John abmont I should have pre read this, Abamandi,

199
00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:45,639
I think isn't the only one to deliver testimony that

200
00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:49,519
Live Nation retaliated when his venue explored a compelling I'm sorry,

201
00:11:49,559 --> 00:11:53,840
a competing proposal. Here's the latest with the federal antitrust law.

202
00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:56,279
So again this refers to the article. This refers to

203
00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:58,399
the lawsuit we were talking about in the other article,

204
00:11:59,159 --> 00:12:03,600
with the federal antitrust trial against Live Nation and Ticketmaster

205
00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:06,559
in full swing. Venue owners are testifying that Live Nation

206
00:12:06,720 --> 00:12:10,039
weaponized major tour dates to keep them from switching their

207
00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:14,320
ticketing to a competitor. Again, like seat Geek, the Barclay

208
00:12:14,360 --> 00:12:17,919
Center tried to do. Digital Music News covered testimony from

209
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:23,039
former BSE Global CEO John Abamandi relating to a planned

210
00:12:23,080 --> 00:12:25,960
Billie Eilish show at the Barclay Center that Live Nation

211
00:12:26,279 --> 00:12:32,080
allegedly rug pulled. Now Mitch Helgerson, chief revenue officer for

212
00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,039
the Minnesota Wild, has lobbied So I'm sorry, has lobbed

213
00:12:36,120 --> 00:12:41,679
similar allegations against the Live Events Juggernaut. According to Helgerson,

214
00:12:42,399 --> 00:12:45,320
when is Music Venue explored a proposal from Live Nation

215
00:12:45,440 --> 00:12:50,480
competitor Seat Geek during contract negotiations, a Ticketmaster executive warned

216
00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,879
him that Live Nation could just move its shows to

217
00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:58,480
a competing venue. Helgerson called this a credible threat and

218
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:02,759
noted that losing those would have been catastrophic. And again,

219
00:13:03,000 --> 00:13:07,480
I just raised the question, is that is that just hardball,

220
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:12,279
hardball business tactics, or is that does that cross the line?

221
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,799
Is it predatory? When seek Geek heard the news, they

222
00:13:15,799 --> 00:13:19,240
were apparently keenly aware of Live Nation strategy, offering the

223
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,200
Wild what it literally referred to as a Live Nation

224
00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:28,840
retaliation insurance, that is, a promise to compensate the venue

225
00:13:29,279 --> 00:13:33,440
if concerts were pulled. Well, good on sea Geek for

226
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:36,919
stepping up, I guess, but how do you, uh, how

227
00:13:36,919 --> 00:13:39,080
do you even do that? Though? How could they put like,

228
00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:40,639
if all these events are pulled, how are they going

229
00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,399
to compensate the venue? Interesting? But even with that, getting

230
00:13:44,399 --> 00:13:46,480
back to the article, but even with that offer, and

231
00:13:46,559 --> 00:13:50,279
even though the sea Geek proposal would have ranked would

232
00:13:50,279 --> 00:13:53,240
have raked in an additional million dollars a year for

233
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,080
the venue, the Wild Hockey team ultimately chose to stay

234
00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:02,279
with Ticketmaster. The most damning part is that if seat

235
00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:06,440
geek has a policy it refers to, even colloquially as

236
00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,639
Live Nation retaliation insurance, then the company's reputation as a

237
00:14:10,639 --> 00:14:14,919
monopoly seems correctly placed. Of course, Live Nation has fervently

238
00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,639
pushed back against these allegations. In the similar ones posited

239
00:14:18,639 --> 00:14:22,360
by Abamandi on cross examination, there was a lot of

240
00:14:22,399 --> 00:14:26,919
emphasis on the complexity of switching ticketing platforms, that seat

241
00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:33,000
geek had real usability shortcomings. In that Abamandi's case, he

242
00:14:33,200 --> 00:14:39,440
already had personal relationships with seat geek execs. However, none

243
00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,360
of this explains why the Billie Eilis show in New

244
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:46,360
York ended up twenty miles away after so called thinly

245
00:14:46,440 --> 00:14:50,240
veiled frets from Live Nation and Ticketmaster. Nor does it

246
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,759
explain why the Minnesota Wild would leave a million dollars

247
00:14:53,799 --> 00:14:56,559
a year on the table, if not out of fear

248
00:14:56,960 --> 00:15:00,559
of retaliation. It's only been the first week of the trial,

249
00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:03,639
which is expected to last about six weeks. Time will

250
00:15:03,679 --> 00:15:06,440
tell if the jury ultimately agrees with the government's assertion

251
00:15:06,519 --> 00:15:09,799
that Live Nation has in fact becomes such a dominant

252
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:12,360
force that it can essentially bully the rest of the

253
00:15:12,399 --> 00:15:15,679
industry into taking a knee. But if Abamandi and Helgerson's

254
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,759
testimonies are any indication, the first week isn't looking good

255
00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:23,399
for Live Nation. So that is from Digitalmusicnews dot com.

256
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:27,919
And again you know the Live Nation and Ticketmaster there.

257
00:15:27,919 --> 00:15:29,720
For as long as I can remember, this is not

258
00:15:29,759 --> 00:15:31,600
a recent thing. For as long as I can remember,

259
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:35,080
they've always been in the news attached to some sort

260
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:46,840
of controversy investigation, very often over over predatory business practices

261
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:51,200
or alleged predatory business practices. One more little bit of

262
00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,919
a piece to this. This is not directly relate to

263
00:15:54,039 --> 00:16:01,159
this specific trial, but this is from me Music Businessworldwide

264
00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:05,200
dot Com. It does relate to ticketing. Music industry groups

265
00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:09,960
push us Senate to titan Ticket Act and cap resale

266
00:16:10,039 --> 00:16:13,879
fees at ten percent. So this is short, but this

267
00:16:13,919 --> 00:16:17,080
will kind of put a put a cap pun fully

268
00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,480
intended in this case on this what we've been talking

269
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:23,840
about this morning. So again, this is from Music Business

270
00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,440
Worldwide dot Com, one of my favorite websites for music

271
00:16:26,480 --> 00:16:28,320
industry news. By the way, this is another great site

272
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:30,720
if you're interested in this stuff. A group of music

273
00:16:30,759 --> 00:16:33,519
and live music organizations is pressing the Senate to titan

274
00:16:33,679 --> 00:16:38,519
federal ticketing legislation, arguing that the current version of the

275
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:43,600
Ticket Act is insufficient in protecting fans. The fix. The

276
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:49,519
TICS coalition, led by the National Independent Venue Association, wrote

277
00:16:49,559 --> 00:16:52,759
an open letter to the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science,

278
00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:57,080
and Transportation calling for changes to the Ticket Act. The

279
00:16:57,159 --> 00:17:00,759
letter was addressed to Chairman Ted Cruz, ranking Member Maria Cantwell,

280
00:17:00,799 --> 00:17:04,400
sub Committee Chairman Marsha Blackburn, and ranking Member John Hickenlooper.

281
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:11,559
They wrote, quote, when federal policy falls short, fans pay

282
00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:14,640
the price. They lose money and cur unnecessary travel costs

283
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:17,640
and waste. Time they missed the show they planned around,

284
00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:21,319
and they often blame the artists, venue, or team rather

285
00:17:21,440 --> 00:17:27,039
than the reseller or platform that misled them. Meanwhile, scalpers

286
00:17:27,039 --> 00:17:30,599
and speculative sellers assume none of the risk and face

287
00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:35,359
few meaningful consequences unquote. And by the way, just to

288
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:38,799
just to you know, remind people if you don't know,

289
00:17:39,839 --> 00:17:42,599
when we're talking about resellers and scalpers, you know, there's

290
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:46,279
all these we call them the secondary market. Very often,

291
00:17:46,279 --> 00:17:49,119
when these tickets go on sale through Live Nation and Ticketmaster,

292
00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:54,039
you might notice, and this has been going on literally

293
00:17:54,039 --> 00:17:56,720
for decades. You know, shows seem to sell out, big,

294
00:17:56,759 --> 00:18:00,279
big tours, seem to sell out very very quickly, and

295
00:18:00,359 --> 00:18:04,079
you might ask yourself, how is it possible that these

296
00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:07,240
shows sell out so quickly? Even with the internet, how

297
00:18:07,279 --> 00:18:09,359
can so many people log on and buy so many

298
00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,319
tickets at once? Well, very often it's these resellers, these

299
00:18:13,839 --> 00:18:18,480
secondary market ticket sellers, who buy up a lot of

300
00:18:18,519 --> 00:18:21,680
tickets and then once the show is quote unquote sold out,

301
00:18:21,759 --> 00:18:25,359
now all of a sudden, these secondary market resellers, oh

302
00:18:25,400 --> 00:18:28,880
they've got tickets at a significantly higher price, but they've

303
00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,200
got tickets for you. So it is a form of helping.

304
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:33,279
They are it is a form of scalping. They use

305
00:18:33,319 --> 00:18:38,519
bots to buy up tickets. Ticketmaster, for their part, they

306
00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:41,319
have policies that you can only buy so many tickets

307
00:18:41,319 --> 00:18:44,039
at a time, But as we've discussed on the show,

308
00:18:44,559 --> 00:18:47,440
it is no secret that those policies are not necessarily

309
00:18:47,519 --> 00:18:51,519
consistently enforced by the very technology that is supposed to

310
00:18:51,519 --> 00:18:55,039
prevent scalpers and bots from buying up all these tickets

311
00:18:55,039 --> 00:18:58,680
at once. So it's a dirty business. The ticketing business

312
00:18:58,720 --> 00:18:59,640
is a dirty business.

313
00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:03,839
Speaker 3: Remember when I was a kid going with my mom

314
00:19:04,519 --> 00:19:08,200
and camping out on the sidewalk in a line with

315
00:19:08,240 --> 00:19:12,039
other people outside a ticket Master, waiting for the moment

316
00:19:12,119 --> 00:19:14,559
that the door would open. And back in the day,

317
00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:17,200
the only way you could buy tickets was in person

318
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,319
or on the phone, so it was harder for scalpers.

319
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,759
They still did it. They still did it, but it

320
00:19:24,799 --> 00:19:27,720
was harder on them because you only had those two avenues.

321
00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,200
And you know, I did this with my mom. We

322
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:34,160
went to see Prince. It was the most amazing experience.

323
00:19:35,880 --> 00:19:40,119
But nowadays, with the technology, they should be able to

324
00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,400
tell like okay, ip address, we've got bots here, because

325
00:19:44,480 --> 00:19:46,880
so and so you know, there's four bots in here

326
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:50,319
buying X number of tickets at the same time from

327
00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,039
the same IP address. But that doesn't necessarily happen. And

328
00:19:54,079 --> 00:19:57,960
do they really care? Do they really care? Because what

329
00:19:58,039 --> 00:20:00,759
they want is a fast buck. They want the biggest

330
00:20:00,759 --> 00:20:05,000
profit that they can get. They want every ticket to sell, absolutely,

331
00:20:05,680 --> 00:20:06,960
So as long as they're.

332
00:20:06,799 --> 00:20:09,960
Speaker 2: Selling, hey, they're meeting their their margins. You know, they're

333
00:20:09,960 --> 00:20:11,039
making their profit.

334
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:14,680
Speaker 3: And the heck with the venue, you know, to heck

335
00:20:14,720 --> 00:20:17,559
with the with the band, to heck with the people,

336
00:20:18,279 --> 00:20:22,240
because you know, it sounds like healthcare. You know, it's

337
00:20:22,279 --> 00:20:25,880
the big guys. These guys have multimillion dollar salaries. They

338
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,599
make a ton of money. You know, there's shareholders that

339
00:20:28,599 --> 00:20:30,599
they make a ton of money. And it's always about

340
00:20:30,799 --> 00:20:32,599
how much more can you make me? How much more

341
00:20:32,640 --> 00:20:34,960
can you make me? Because it's never enough. Then, you know,

342
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,839
million dollar profit not enough, make me more? Five million

343
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,880
dollar profit not enough, make me more. That's what happens.

344
00:20:42,279 --> 00:20:45,440
And they don't care. I don't believe that they care.

345
00:20:45,759 --> 00:20:48,119
And the reason I say that is because I can remember.

346
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,440
For all of my adult life, this has been a

347
00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:55,680
topic consistently. There's been core case after core case. There's

348
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,920
been DJ investigations nationally as well as states. We've been

349
00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:02,839
talking about this and hearing about this for as long

350
00:21:02,880 --> 00:21:07,839
as Ticketmaster has existed. Yes, yes, and they have consistently

351
00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,160
gotten away and found way is to skirt around the

352
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,279
laws that they have.

353
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,279
Speaker 2: The monopoly on sales of tickets period. They just do.

354
00:21:18,079 --> 00:21:19,079
That's a fact.

355
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,599
Speaker 1: Even program had to back down in the nineties when

356
00:21:21,599 --> 00:21:23,799
they tried to They tried, they tried.

357
00:21:24,279 --> 00:21:26,839
Speaker 3: And they're not the artists that have said, well, I'm

358
00:21:26,839 --> 00:21:28,599
not going to sell my tickets to them because I

359
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:29,880
don't like the way they do business.

360
00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:32,839
Speaker 2: And they try, they try, but then they end up

361
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:33,759
having to go back.

362
00:21:33,839 --> 00:21:37,119
Speaker 3: Why because all the venues are using that and they're

363
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:40,079
not giving them. There's no alternative way for them to

364
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,160
do it. That they get to hold this monopoly. They

365
00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:49,480
have a stranglehold on ticket sales. And I find it interesting.

366
00:21:49,960 --> 00:21:51,759
Did you get to the bottom part? I don't know

367
00:21:51,799 --> 00:21:55,000
if I missed. Did you get to the bottom part

368
00:21:55,039 --> 00:21:55,640
of that article?

369
00:21:56,000 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 1: No? About halfway through it?

370
00:21:57,519 --> 00:22:00,359
Speaker 2: Oh, okay, then I'll hold off on my additional.

371
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:05,400
Speaker 1: Okay, so yeah, a little bit more to this again.

372
00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:08,079
This is from Music Business Worldwide dot Com so, it says.

373
00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:11,240
The push comes over a month after a January twenty

374
00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,720
eight Senate Committee Herey Subcommittee hearing where Blackburn led a

375
00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:17,839
panel of lawmakers in pressing Live Nation to do more

376
00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,240
to clamp down on ticket scalping. Live Nations Executive vice

377
00:22:21,279 --> 00:22:25,160
president of Corporate and Regulatory Affairs Dan Wall was present

378
00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:28,759
at the hearing alongside musician Kid Rock and other stakeholders.

379
00:22:29,680 --> 00:22:34,119
The coalition, whose signatories include the Recording Academy, SAG after

380
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:37,680
a Event Bright and American Federation of Musicians, and more

381
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:40,839
than a dozen other organizations, said the bill contains gaps

382
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:44,759
that bad actors will continue to exploit. They wrote, quote,

383
00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:47,599
the Ticket Act is a step forward, but without a

384
00:22:47,599 --> 00:22:51,319
complete ban on speculative ticketing and forceable limits on resale

385
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:55,440
pricing and fees and robust end to end price transparency,

386
00:22:56,559 --> 00:22:59,440
bad actors will continue to exploit gaps in the law

387
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,839
the expense of fans and communities. On pricing transparency, the

388
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,799
groups are demanding disclosure of the base ticket price and

389
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:10,720
every associated fee to appear from the moment a customer

390
00:23:10,799 --> 00:23:15,799
selects a ticket, not just at checkout quote not requiring

391
00:23:15,839 --> 00:23:18,839
ticket price and ticket fees broken out in a is

392
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:23,039
a shortcoming of the Federal Trade Commissions All in Pricing rule,

393
00:23:23,599 --> 00:23:26,720
and we are looking to Congress directify it unquote on

394
00:23:26,880 --> 00:23:31,119
speculative ticketing. The coalition is called for a prohibition without exception,

395
00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:35,200
they wrote, quote as multiple witnesses testified tickets that do

396
00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:38,720
not exist, are not in the seller's possession, or are

397
00:23:38,839 --> 00:23:43,480
marketed through so called concierge or seat saver schemes are

398
00:23:43,519 --> 00:23:48,039
not a service. They are deception unquote and predatory. Tend

399
00:23:48,039 --> 00:23:52,000
to agree it's predatory as well. Yeah, you're desperate to

400
00:23:52,039 --> 00:23:52,680
go see.

401
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:55,599
Speaker 3: Somebody and something like that pops up, You snag it.

402
00:23:55,799 --> 00:23:59,519
You don't even Sometimes people don't even realize how much

403
00:23:59,599 --> 00:24:02,839
they got ripped off until later on when they find

404
00:24:02,839 --> 00:24:05,480
out what the prices truly were, or they talk to

405
00:24:05,519 --> 00:24:09,480
somebody else and they go, geez, I spent three hundred

406
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:10,319
dollars more than that?

407
00:24:10,559 --> 00:24:13,039
Speaker 2: How come? Who conchier's service?

408
00:24:14,519 --> 00:24:17,720
Speaker 3: It really isn't it's just a fancy word for a scalper.

409
00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:18,799
Speaker 2: It really is.

410
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,400
Speaker 3: And the problem has been consistent in that every time

411
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,720
there's legislation to try and regulate this issue, it gets

412
00:24:25,759 --> 00:24:28,319
defeated or it doesn't even make it.

413
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:29,480
Speaker 1: For a vote.

414
00:24:30,119 --> 00:24:33,880
Speaker 3: You know, I'm hopeful that Okay, the DJ is actually

415
00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:37,160
on this and forty states out.

416
00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:38,920
Speaker 2: Of fifties awful lot.

417
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,599
Speaker 3: You know, should in Congress do something when this has

418
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,720
been a consistent issue time and again, bill after bill

419
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:49,640
of trying to rain this in to make sure that

420
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,839
you know, people aren't just getting ripped off because the

421
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:58,599
system doesn't isn't is still not protective of the consumer

422
00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:01,680
and the artist. It protects the scalper more than it

423
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:05,240
does the consumer and the artist because the safeguards aren't in.

424
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: Place, it says here. The letter also calls for deleting

425
00:25:08,359 --> 00:25:12,559
the Bills Services Permitted Provision and proposes direct by the

426
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,440
Act so that a ticket issuer oh quote, a ticket issuer,

427
00:25:16,519 --> 00:25:19,880
secondary market ticket issuer, or a secondary market ticket exchange

428
00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:23,000
that does not have actual or constructive possession of an

429
00:25:23,039 --> 00:25:27,119
event ticket shall not sell, offer for sale, or advertise

430
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,759
for sale such an event ticket unquote. The third demand

431
00:25:30,839 --> 00:25:33,680
is for a ban on reselling. This is the important

432
00:25:33,720 --> 00:25:34,440
part of this whole thing.

433
00:25:34,519 --> 00:25:35,319
Speaker 2: Isn't this weird though?

434
00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:37,279
Speaker 3: That you have to create a band to say you

435
00:25:37,319 --> 00:25:40,240
can't sell something you don't have, I know, right.

436
00:25:40,039 --> 00:25:40,640
Speaker 1: It's wild?

437
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, that should be a basic consumer law. How do

438
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:44,880
you sell something you don't have right?

439
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:49,240
Speaker 1: Right that as a loophole. The third demand is for

440
00:25:49,279 --> 00:25:51,640
a ban on reselling off tickets above the original total

441
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:54,839
cost and for a cap of all resale fees at

442
00:25:54,839 --> 00:25:58,880
no more than ten percent quote. Across the country, fans

443
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:01,200
are being priced out of live events, not because artists

444
00:26:01,240 --> 00:26:04,759
or venues raise prices, but because resale markets allow unlimited

445
00:26:04,759 --> 00:26:09,440
markups and excessive fees divorced from any added value or risk.

446
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,000
A federal prohibition on resale above the original total cost,

447
00:26:14,279 --> 00:26:17,720
combined with a strict cap on resale fees, would directly

448
00:26:17,759 --> 00:26:22,680
address price gouging, align incentives toward real fan access, and

449
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,720
ensure that tickets end up in the hands of fans,

450
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:31,720
not industrial speculators. A companion House Bill HR fourteen oh

451
00:26:31,759 --> 00:26:35,599
two pass House of Representatives with overwhelming bipartisan support in

452
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,799
April twenty twenty five, and was placed on the Senate

453
00:26:37,799 --> 00:26:42,119
calendar in September s two eighty one. The Senate's own

454
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,839
version remains in committee. So there you go.

455
00:26:48,839 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 3: So if that's not bad enough, then you have all

456
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:57,119
of the the quote unquote threats yeah to the venues

457
00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,880
that there's accusations of you know, like about the Billie

458
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,319
Eilish part.

459
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,319
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, where the what was it? The show is

460
00:27:06,319 --> 00:27:06,799
in New York.

461
00:27:06,839 --> 00:27:08,279
Speaker 3: The show was supposed to be in New York, but

462
00:27:08,319 --> 00:27:11,359
it ended up twenty miles away. After there was some

463
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:15,680
kind of a thinly veiled threat from Live Nations slash Ticketmaster,

464
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,599
because I remember Live Ation and Ticketmaster are the same thing, right,

465
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:20,279
they really are.

466
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:21,839
Speaker 2: It's not two different things these are.

467
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,319
Speaker 3: They're own by the same people, just two different flags

468
00:27:24,319 --> 00:27:26,880
they sit underneath. So if you're going to Live Nation,

469
00:27:27,039 --> 00:27:31,000
you are buying from Ticketmaster, period, right, So don't think

470
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,400
that those terms aren't aren't interchangeable, because they are. Or

471
00:27:34,519 --> 00:27:39,240
wherein they talked about the Minnesota Wild would walk away

472
00:27:39,240 --> 00:27:42,880
from a million dollar deal out of fear of being

473
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,519
retaliated against by Live Nation Ticketmaster, right, you know, So

474
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:49,799
if it's not bad enough, what we just said is

475
00:27:49,839 --> 00:27:52,960
already happening to consumers this other side. It's almost like

476
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:58,160
a mafia attitude with ticket sales. These companies are like, yeah,

477
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,160
you must come to the dog to get permission to

478
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,960
sell this or something like, right, because it is you know,

479
00:28:04,039 --> 00:28:06,400
if you're not selling your tickets through us, we're going

480
00:28:06,440 --> 00:28:09,680
to threaten to never sell your venue's tickets again.

481
00:28:10,279 --> 00:28:12,720
Speaker 1: Right, you will get nobody. You know.

482
00:28:12,839 --> 00:28:18,559
Speaker 3: This is it's it's beyond wrong now. It's it went

483
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,960
from the from being a monopolly to now being a mafia.

484
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:25,519
I'm sorry, but that's how it is. If you're if

485
00:28:25,599 --> 00:28:31,039
people are afraid, that's yeah, the fear is coming from that.

486
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:36,200
It's it's ridiculous. We've been saying this for years. This

487
00:28:36,279 --> 00:28:39,640
is not about the free market. The free market isn't

488
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:42,799
fixing this. That's making it worse. What will fix it

489
00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:45,680
is to have regulation that doesn't allow because we have

490
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,119
to apparently create a new law because apparently existing law

491
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:54,960
doesn't prevent somebody from selling something they don't even have. Yeah,

492
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,960
I am selling one hundred tickets to this concert at

493
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,000
a three hundred dollars market concil and I haven't even

494
00:29:01,039 --> 00:29:02,000
bought the tickets yet.

495
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:04,039
Speaker 2: Well, I don't even have them in my hand yet.

496
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: The only thing though, that does that does happen in

497
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,279
other sectors. I mean, you know, well even in the

498
00:29:09,319 --> 00:29:12,880
music industry, like you know, artists will you know, put

499
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,359
things on pre sale that aren't necessarily available yet.

500
00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:17,279
Speaker 2: You know what I mean, they have their own tickets

501
00:29:17,640 --> 00:29:18,119
that isn't.

502
00:29:19,559 --> 00:29:21,599
Speaker 1: But I just mean, like you can you know, sometimes

503
00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,720
you can buy a single or thing. Yeah, that's an orange.

504
00:29:24,759 --> 00:29:27,680
Speaker 2: I don't either sale you're selling something, But I'm just

505
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:28,079
that you.

506
00:29:28,039 --> 00:29:30,319
Speaker 1: Have you have it, but you might not have it yet,

507
00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:32,119
is what I'm saying. So you might be working on

508
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,000
something that you're or if you're crowdfunding something a project

509
00:29:35,079 --> 00:29:36,519
or something. So there are other examples.

510
00:29:36,599 --> 00:29:39,960
Speaker 3: Huge difference to that in saying I have one hundred tickets. No,

511
00:29:40,039 --> 00:29:42,880
I agree, and I don't actually have the tickets. And

512
00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:46,119
that's what the article is super clear about is that

513
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,279
in a lot of these secondary markets, they're getting their

514
00:29:49,319 --> 00:29:52,880
hands on nothing but your money. Then they're getting this

515
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:55,799
huge markup, and then they just take a small portion

516
00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:57,880
out of your money and go and actually buy the

517
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,160
ticket you could have bought for that price, but they

518
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,880
swindled you. And these companies get get better and better

519
00:30:05,960 --> 00:30:08,559
at it. In any industry, you'll see, like now, when

520
00:30:08,559 --> 00:30:10,720
you go in and put in a search for something,

521
00:30:11,519 --> 00:30:15,759
they're buying sponsored spots that get them to pop up

522
00:30:15,799 --> 00:30:18,599
to the top. And most of the time we click

523
00:30:18,640 --> 00:30:21,359
on what's the first thing we see, right, pay it.

524
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:24,799
Speaker 2: Don't do that anymore. Take a look at it. Always. Look.

525
00:30:24,839 --> 00:30:26,759
Speaker 3: This is what I do now is I always look

526
00:30:26,799 --> 00:30:28,920
at what comes up first, and I look for the

527
00:30:28,960 --> 00:30:34,319
word sponsored. So I know that's a yes, at least

528
00:30:34,319 --> 00:30:34,839
it's labeled.

529
00:30:34,839 --> 00:30:35,599
Speaker 2: But you can look for.

530
00:30:35,599 --> 00:30:38,079
Speaker 1: That same thing if you google something.

531
00:30:37,960 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 3: Right exactly look for that word sponsored, and then you

532
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:42,960
know that person paid to have that there.

533
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,799
Speaker 2: It's not that they came up first because of ratings

534
00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:46,599
or because.

535
00:30:46,839 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 1: A problem with that, especially since it's labeled.

536
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:51,480
Speaker 2: I'm just saying pay attention.

537
00:30:51,759 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, because that's just because it comes up first, doesn't

538
00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:57,559
mean that's where you should click. You know, check out

539
00:30:57,559 --> 00:31:01,200
what comes up down underneath the sponsored off. The venue

540
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:04,400
itself could potentially be selling tickets, right, you know, like

541
00:31:05,119 --> 00:31:08,480
the box office in Conquered, they don't they sell them

542
00:31:08,519 --> 00:31:09,079
right at the window.

543
00:31:09,119 --> 00:31:10,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, you can.

544
00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,000
Speaker 3: You can go and buy a ticket in person at

545
00:31:13,000 --> 00:31:15,599
their window. You don't have to go through ticket Master

546
00:31:15,759 --> 00:31:17,759
or a Live Nation to do that, right. Most venues

547
00:31:17,799 --> 00:31:20,440
still do that at least. Yeah, So look for that. Yeah,

548
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:23,200
don't just snag that first one. Watch out for those

549
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,680
sponsored Those are ads they're trying to get you to

550
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,440
click on them. Yeah, So take a moment to peruse

551
00:31:28,759 --> 00:31:31,079
and if you can have the option of buying directly

552
00:31:31,119 --> 00:31:35,119
from the venue or the artists, do it, right, absolutely

553
00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:37,960
do it because that way, you know, the money is

554
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:41,440
actually going to go back to the artists and the

555
00:31:41,799 --> 00:31:44,559
venue actually like these places are actually making the money

556
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:51,079
versus Ticketmaster buying it. And right, yeah, you're basically feeding

557
00:31:51,119 --> 00:31:53,680
the multi millionaires that fly in private jets that they

558
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,240
don't want to fly with you on commercial flight because

559
00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:58,519
they don't want to fly with the peasants.

560
00:31:58,759 --> 00:32:02,559
Speaker 2: This is who we're up against. The giant people who.

561
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,240
Speaker 3: Have multi you know, they have giant houses, billionaires, and

562
00:32:06,319 --> 00:32:08,559
it's all about increasing that profit.

563
00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:10,279
Speaker 2: For them more and more and more and more and more.

564
00:32:10,319 --> 00:32:11,440
It's never gonna be enough.

565
00:32:11,960 --> 00:32:14,799
Speaker 3: So we have to curb this by encouraging this kind

566
00:32:14,799 --> 00:32:17,720
of legislation to protect the artists.

567
00:32:17,480 --> 00:32:19,319
Speaker 2: And to get the money to go where it really

568
00:32:19,319 --> 00:32:19,880
should be.

569
00:32:20,279 --> 00:32:23,519
Speaker 3: The bands that pay, you know, they pay in their

570
00:32:23,559 --> 00:32:27,839
blood and sweat from thousands of hours of practicing and

571
00:32:27,839 --> 00:32:29,680
go to put on a concert. You want the money

572
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,200
to go to them as much as possible, So look

573
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,200
for the options before you go and buy from Ticketmaster.

574
00:32:35,519 --> 00:32:39,799
If there is an alternative that is directly from the artist,

575
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:42,920
or directly from the venue. That might be a better

576
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,119
bet for your dollar, and it might be better priced