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Speaker 1: What's he throughout the impossible or whatever I make?

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Speaker 2: How the improbable most be true?

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Speaker 3: And it is not a question of the libero cultism.

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What a touch of mysticism is today?

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Speaker 1: It is empires as a host of them souls. Hello, Pops,

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thy father spirit due for a certain termed work than night.

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Speaker 2: Here the old gods aren't dead?

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Speaker 4: And what is the true God when he's dead?

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Speaker 2: You can't complain?

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Speaker 3: People assume the time is a strict progression of cause

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to effect, but actually from a nonlinear, non subjective viewpoint,

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it's more like a big ball of wibby wobbly thymey

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wymy stuff.

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Speaker 5: You're listening to Paranormal UK Radio.

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Speaker 4: Why everybody? This is an irene An block from the

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Paranormal UK Radio Show, the flagship show to the Paranormal

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UK Radio Network. And uh, I got that little kit

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with me tonight. What what's his name again, Mark Johnson?

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Speaker 5: Little Kit?

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Speaker 4: Huh, Well, I couldn't remember.

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Speaker 5: Well, that's some of the kinder names you've called me

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over the years.

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Speaker 2: What is.

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Speaker 5: I got? I get the general meaning of it.

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Speaker 4: It's a pregnant camera apparently.

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Speaker 5: Okay, that's a new one for me. I know what

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a wanker is what.

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Speaker 4: I don't know what that is. What's that.

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Speaker 5: Assent?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Someone who tosses a caper? Yeah they don't Scotland.

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Speaker 5: Never mind, So how you doing.

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Speaker 4: I'm a bit out of breath today because I think

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I've over exerted myself.

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Speaker 5: Okay, well we will try to take it easy on

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you tonight.

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Speaker 4: And I'm not heavy breathing just to turn anyone on.

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Speaker 5: You know, I thank you for doing it for me.

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Speaker 4: Huh. I don't do anything for.

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Speaker 5: You, not not particularly now.

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Speaker 4: I'm heavy breathing because I'm finding it a little bit

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difficult to breathe at the moment because I got up

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earlier on I went to get a cushion from my

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back in this chair because my back was aching, and

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I had walked from the office to the sitting room

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to get it.

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Speaker 5: So at least now I can say I can picture

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it when you go from one room to the other,

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since I've finally been there and I seen it.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've seen the old house, isn't it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, I need to get my butt back out there

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this year.

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Speaker 2: Do you know?

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Speaker 4: I put up some I forgot the name of it.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 4: I opened the door, looked at the wallpaper and it

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came to me William Morris.

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Speaker 5: William Morris, okay, cool.

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Speaker 4: William Morris. Nice, yeahifty pounds a row.

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Speaker 5: Well, I can't wait to see it when I come out.

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So why don't we go ahead and we get right

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into the show. Oh then shall we.

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Speaker 4: Look?

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Speaker 5: Well, we're very happy to have tonight's guest who is

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a member, a family member here at the Paranormal UK

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Radio Network and the co host of the Paranormal Peep

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Show and also an author with a new book out,

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True Tales of the Paranormal Spirits, Ghosts and the Hidden World.

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So please welcome Neil Getty's Word to the program. How

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are you doing tonight?

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Speaker 2: Neil, Hello, good evening, and hello everybody listening to it.

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So I have to create you there, Mark, I'm no

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longer get as Ward.

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Speaker 5: It's Neil war Neil Ward.

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Speaker 4: Okay, I had the book two look at the bottom,

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Neil Wards.

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Speaker 5: Well, I know, but I'm just so used I know

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someth am.

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Speaker 2: I I'm so used to it. I remarried and Geedtis

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actually came along when I was getting married for the

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first time back in the early nineties, and so I

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kind of accumulated that name for about thirty five years

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and it's only the last few years I've reverted back

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to Neil Ward. So how about that, I'm back to

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my old original name.

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Speaker 5: Well there you go, the okay Neil Ward. So yeah,

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your your paranormal peep show with you and Andrew Chaplin,

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Ben Emma and Jones. You guys have been going for

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quite a while now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's about two thousand and sixteen, and

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I think it was originally me and Andy starting off,

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and then we started to interview Ben quite a lot

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because he was a very expert in many knowledge what areas,

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and then sometimes Andy couldn't always make it because of

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his busy tuned in events things that he does, so

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Ben would kindly help out. And Ben's kind of like

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the odd regular presenter now as a kind of standing

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or a guest for anything that we think, oh Ben

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would know that answer.

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Speaker 5: So yeah, well fantastic. Now, yeah, you're definitely Your show

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is one of the highest rated shows on the network.

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You guys do one of the longest.

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Speaker 4: I'm one of the longest that's been The Paranormal UK

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is the longest, isn't it.

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Speaker 5: Well, we started paranormally UK back in twenty sixteen. So yeaheah,

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one of the very first shows to join us.

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Speaker 2: Be the ninth year or I think this year.

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Speaker 5: Yeah too.

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Speaker 4: You get gold Watch when it's ten years, not by it.

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Speaker 5: I got some model paint, you know, I can paint

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something gold.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure.

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Speaker 5: On my income, Yeah, that's about it I can afford

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these days. So so Neil, let's talk a bit about

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the new book.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 5: It just came out a couple of months ago.

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Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, So it came out on Theturist Publishing

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Orchurist Press, which is a UK based publisher, and I

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initially submitted to them and completely forgot that I submitted

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it to them because I got an email about four

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months after I submitted it saying, hey, we would be

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interested in this book. And I initially submitted it as

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a book called Encounters with Various Ghosts and Spirits, which

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was something that i'd begun in the lockdown, and that

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kind of started from the fact that I was doing

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talks around the country called Encounters with Pharious ghost and

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Spirits as a way of negot in a free stall

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to sell my artwork. Ironically, it turns out that people

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actually kind of liked listening to the talk as well,

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and so lots of people after the talk would come

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up to me and tell me their personal stories. Some

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are really really good and others weren't so good, but

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I kind of tended to remember the ones that were

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really good. So after all, I kind of thought, well,

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I've got to really put these interesting stories down here somewhere.

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So and also it'd add to pop purity to the

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later talks, because as I do the talk later on,

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I've then added some extra information. So I decided, when

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Lockdown began, I must put all this down in writing,

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and that's where the birth of this book took place.

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Speaker 5: Basically fantastic. Well, it's a good sized book. There's many, many,

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many stories in here, so maybe we can talk about

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a few of them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So any particular favorites you want me to discuss, Well,

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I have to.

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Speaker 5: Admit that I haven't read the whole thing yet.

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Speaker 4: And what about Two Brians and a future time slip?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So that's an interesting tale that was actually

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something that was told to me back in about nineteen

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eighty eight, eighty nine something like that, and I was

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in my first psychic developing circle at the time, and

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i'd explain to people that don't know what psychic developing

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circle is. Initially, basically, when you have people that want

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to do clairvoyance, mediumship, psychic kind of stuff. Not everyone

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does it, but a lot of people, normally through a

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local spiritualist church, tends to happen that they would join

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what's called a psychic developing circle, where you might get

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five or six people, maybe even more, and they all

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go to someone's house normally and they all sit around.

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They don't put their hands on a table like you'd imagine.

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Maybe it sounds to be, but they just try and

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do exercises to strengthen their and develop their psychic abilities.

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Speaker 4: Like imagine a fucking an oak tree.

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Speaker 2: Kind of a kind of yeah, you feel a different

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kind of energy. So we had this chat there. I

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think he worked for British Gas when I knew him,

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and I call him Brian Smith simply because I can't

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remember his surname it's so long ago. But he did

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work for British GATS. I recall that. And when we

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all kind of got back together after the summer break

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was over, he had said that he had gone away

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on holiday and he had come back from some place

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like Lanza Rotti or wherever it was, somewhere really nice

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and hot, and he said he stayed in a hotel,

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but he said he had a really strange experience whilst

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he was there. He said that during the night, either

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he woke up or he was already awake. I wasn't

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really sure that. He said he saw a gentleman walking

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across the room of the living room of this hotel,

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walk across, and he was in a tuxedo suit. He

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walked across and he appeared to go to where the

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balcony was, and he fell out over the balcony. And

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of course this Brian went over looked over. There was

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no one there, because he was like, you know, thirteen

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or fourteen floors up in this tour hotel, and he thought,

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I've seen some kind of vision. I'm sure of it.

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So when it was time for him to check out

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the hotel, he said to the receptionist, has anything ever

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happened in that room? And they said, no, nothing at all,

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nothing at all, And he goes, oh, okay, fair enough.

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So he wasn't quite sure what to make of it.

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And he'd been home about a week when he suddenly

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got a phone call from the hotel that he had

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just been staying at, and they said, is that Brian Smith?

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And he goes, yeah, and he says, now, can we

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just check your address here? And he gave his address.

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This is the hotel that you stayed at a week ago.

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We've got some confusion here. We've got to send some

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luggage back to a Brian Smith. And it looks like

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there's been two Brian smith staying in the same hotel room.

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And what happened is the other Brian Smith that stayed

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after you had stayed there, unfortunately, he fell to his

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death from the balcony. And that's what he had seen.

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And so they were trying to ring up to check

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where they could send the luggage to, and obviously to

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Brian Smith's on their list, and they wanted to try

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and rule it. And Matt explained what he had seen.

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So he was kind of seeing what you know, he

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wasn't seeing a ghost or anything like that, but you're

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seeing maybe like a vision of premonition or something like that.

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But that's one side of it. But the young canny

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bit is the fact that he had the same name

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as him, which is really spooky.

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Speaker 4: That's spooky.

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Speaker 5: That's that's wild, especially you know the fact that it

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was a future event, so it's it's precognitantive to a

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certain extent. But then it makes you wonder again, Yes,

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was it a vision of the future event? Was it

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a time slip of some kind? Instead of looking at

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the back and looking back in time, you're looking forward

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in time. And you're right, the name. It's such a

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big coincidence.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean if if Brian Smith I knew,

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wasn't in a psychic developing circle and wasn't psychic, maybe

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he wouldn't have seen that. But because he was psychic,

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maybe he was correctly attuned to be at to pit

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and perceive that future event coming up. But yeah, it's

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the spooky coincidence thing where the name comes through and

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it happens to be his and that must have sent

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a shiver up his spine when he got that phone calls.

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Speaker 4: But it's a pity that he didn't look at the

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time on his watch at the time he saw it.

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And then I've asked if what time it happened, Can

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you imagine it if it was a second same time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean maybe he did, maybe he did. All

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I knew was the middle of the night that he

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saw it, and I presume the guy coming back was

240
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a little bit drunk. In the later Brian Smith, he

241
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was wearing a tuxedos, which suggested gone out for the evening.

242
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So the vision he had perceived was that evening after

243
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it was a little bit drunk, and presumably he walked

244
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to the balcony just appear over and look out and

245
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just took a tumble. And I presume then the real

246
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Bridsmith that really don't I reenacted that scenario, presumably almost

247
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to the latter.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, this goes into certain things that I'm very interested in,

249
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which is just how nonlinear and fluid time really is.

250
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I mean, basically time is not linear, and there's the

251
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theory of all time happening at once, so being able

252
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to be aware or tune into those types of events

253
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because normally we only see the now, and some people

254
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can see in the past, some people can see in

255
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the future. But it's again it's not linear. So there's

256
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a lot of interesting things about that, and that could

257
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be applied to all sorts of different types of so

258
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called paranormal activity.

259
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that kind of connects up to another

260
00:13:59,679 --> 00:14:02,720
story there, which is more of a well known story,

261
00:14:02,759 --> 00:14:06,600
which was the case of the Roman ghosts of York

262
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,320
in the northern area. You know this story are in.

263
00:14:09,360 --> 00:14:11,000
It's kind of a well known British story.

264
00:14:11,399 --> 00:14:14,120
Speaker 4: I didn't what I didn't know them? Neil? Was that

265
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,399
a woman years later? So is that the same thing?

266
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Speaker 5: Yeah?

267
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Speaker 2: Most people only know the story of Harry Martindale, the

268
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young apprentice plumber that happened to sorry about my cop.

269
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But when you go into it further you find that

270
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there's a little bit of a history with this thing.

271
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So Harry Martindale wasn't necessarily seeing things because other people

272
00:14:35,039 --> 00:14:38,080
were perceiving things too. So basically, to break it down

273
00:14:38,519 --> 00:14:41,039
back to the beginning, was it in about nineteen fifty

274
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three there was this place called, I think it's called

275
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the Chancellor's House or something like that in isn't it

276
00:14:48,759 --> 00:14:51,960
yet still there? And it's a listed building. And what

277
00:14:52,120 --> 00:14:58,360
happened was is that they've got some archaeologists to come

278
00:14:58,399 --> 00:15:01,919
in and they thought there was a Roman road that

279
00:15:02,039 --> 00:15:05,399
ran under it some years before, and somehow when they

280
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were doing excavations, they found remnants out of this Roman

281
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,799
road which led back to the main town of York,

282
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where the Romans did occupy many many centuries ago, and

283
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so they had left it there and they're going to

284
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:22,919
come back, presumably in the springtime and carry on excavating.

285
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But during that winter time, the Chancellor's House basically engaged

286
00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:30,879
the services of local plumbers to come in and put

287
00:15:31,679 --> 00:15:34,600
some central heat in it and things. So there's a

288
00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:37,519
whole team of plumbers that moved in and they were

289
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:40,279
drilling holes all day and everything. And this young Harry

290
00:15:40,279 --> 00:15:42,559
Martindowe's he was at the time, he is only about

291
00:15:42,559 --> 00:15:45,279
sixteen or seventeen, was tasked to go down to the

292
00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,639
basement and drew holes in this particular wall in the basement.

293
00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,960
And so when he came down, he found this trench

294
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that had been dug by the arcologist. But he had

295
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:57,960
no idea what this trench was. He just thought it

296
00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:00,440
was a really handy place to stick his ladder and

297
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,080
it kind of supported his ladder quite well. So he

298
00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:04,200
stuck his ladder in the trench, he climbed up the

299
00:16:04,279 --> 00:16:07,960
ladder and he spent all day drilling holes. And whilst

300
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:10,559
he was drilling holes, he kept hearing this sort of

301
00:16:10,600 --> 00:16:14,960
really weird noise, like one particular note being played like

302
00:16:15,000 --> 00:16:17,519
a kind of noise, and he kept thinking, where's that

303
00:16:17,559 --> 00:16:20,440
coming from? And he assumed it was some really bad

304
00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:22,559
record being played on the radio room somewhere, but it

305
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,320
couldn't work out why is it only one note? And

306
00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:28,000
it just kept blowing and blowing and blowing. Eventually it

307
00:16:28,039 --> 00:16:31,159
got louder and louder and louder, and it got to

308
00:16:31,159 --> 00:16:33,799
the point where it got so loud he suddenly noticed

309
00:16:33,799 --> 00:16:36,120
some movement below him, because he was about ten feet

310
00:16:36,200 --> 00:16:39,799
upper ladder, and he saw a Roman soldier materialized coming

311
00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,080
through the wall below him on a horse, and he

312
00:16:43,159 --> 00:16:46,159
was so shocked that he just fell off his ladder

313
00:16:46,679 --> 00:16:49,399
and he got frightened, obviously, and he ran into the

314
00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,360
corner of the basement trying to hide from them, because

315
00:16:52,799 --> 00:16:55,000
it wasn't just one Roman soldier. It was a whole

316
00:16:55,240 --> 00:16:56,879
load of them coming through, about ten.

317
00:16:56,759 --> 00:16:57,399
Speaker 5: Million on it.

318
00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,200
Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't a hole, it wasn't a battalion. Was

319
00:17:00,240 --> 00:17:04,519
about ten of them, and they were all marching through.

320
00:17:04,559 --> 00:17:06,799
And this is the interesting point is that as they

321
00:17:06,839 --> 00:17:10,839
came through, he couldn't see below their knees. But when

322
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:13,039
they came to the point where this trench had been

323
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:17,000
dug by the archologists. Their lower legs suddenly appeared, and

324
00:17:17,039 --> 00:17:21,119
they appeared to be walking on that original Roman road. Now,

325
00:17:21,519 --> 00:17:24,440
the interesting observation that Harry Martindale had made of these

326
00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:27,519
soldiers was that they were covered in mud. They seemed

327
00:17:27,519 --> 00:17:30,759
to be splatted in mud. They were wearing green tunics,

328
00:17:30,839 --> 00:17:33,599
not the typical red tunics you might see in films.

329
00:17:34,559 --> 00:17:38,319
They had small daggers, and they had small round shields,

330
00:17:38,319 --> 00:17:42,640
which again in these films you see they have traditional

331
00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,960
Romans have a great big, long, oblong or rectangular shield,

332
00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:51,680
but these were small round shields, and so he just

333
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,720
sort of didn't understand it. He knew they were Romans,

334
00:17:53,759 --> 00:17:55,960
and some sort of even saw that they had kind

335
00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,519
of unshaven faces, and he could even hear them talk

336
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,519
in a language that he didn't understand, he said, but

337
00:18:01,559 --> 00:18:03,279
he was so frightened. He said he could have reached

338
00:18:03,319 --> 00:18:05,720
out and touched them, but he said, they took no

339
00:18:05,839 --> 00:18:09,079
notice of me. It's like almost he was invisible. Now,

340
00:18:09,599 --> 00:18:12,200
the key thing that I found about is, and no

341
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:14,200
one's pointed it out apart from me, as far as

342
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,240
I'm aware, is that he had pinpointed the mud on

343
00:18:17,279 --> 00:18:20,480
their clothes and faces as they marched back. Oh, and

344
00:18:20,519 --> 00:18:23,039
I point out that the horn sound that it had

345
00:18:23,079 --> 00:18:26,799
heard earlier, the very last Roman soldiers to come through

346
00:18:26,839 --> 00:18:30,279
the wall was a man blowing a horn. Now, that's

347
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,279
because in those times, when they were coming back to

348
00:18:33,440 --> 00:18:35,960
their garrison or wherever it was they had to go to,

349
00:18:36,359 --> 00:18:38,400
they would blow a horn to get them to open

350
00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,400
the gates so that they know that it was their

351
00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,839
own legion of Romans coming through the gate sort of thing,

352
00:18:43,279 --> 00:18:46,079
and it's their calling cardiff, you like. So that was

353
00:18:46,119 --> 00:18:48,359
the guy that came through the wall blowing the horn,

354
00:18:48,759 --> 00:18:51,400
and but he noticed all this mud on their faces.

355
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:55,720
So this would be about November nineteen fifty three, so

356
00:18:55,759 --> 00:19:00,200
it's winter months November nineteen fifty three, and then even

357
00:19:00,279 --> 00:19:03,319
years later, maybe five or six year late. Yeah, I

358
00:19:03,359 --> 00:19:08,279
think it's nineteen fifty seven by this time. Oh, Harry

359
00:19:08,319 --> 00:19:10,599
Martin down. I should add that he ran up the

360
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:14,559
stairs in fear and met a guy, And this is interesting.

361
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,400
He met a guy who worked there who's perhaps a

362
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:21,079
caretaker of that time, and he said, oh, it looks

363
00:19:21,119 --> 00:19:24,200
like you've seen them Roman soldiers, my lad sort of thing.

364
00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:29,200
And so someone else had seen them, so he never

365
00:19:29,279 --> 00:19:31,480
went back to that job. He was so scared he

366
00:19:31,559 --> 00:19:33,480
never went back to the job. That was his first

367
00:19:33,519 --> 00:19:35,279
day on the job and he never went back to it.

368
00:19:35,559 --> 00:19:37,799
And his friends at the local pub saying, how are

369
00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:39,599
you getting on that job, Harry, and he said, well,

370
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:41,839
I don't work there anymore. He said why, and he

371
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,640
didn't want to tell them, so he reluctantly told them,

372
00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:46,519
and that's how the word got out. He wasn't going

373
00:19:46,599 --> 00:19:48,839
to tell anybody. He would have kept it to himself

374
00:19:48,880 --> 00:19:50,960
because he didn't want to look stupid. And that's how

375
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,799
the tailor this got out. His friend started to talk

376
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,759
to people, and I think the papers got interested. But

377
00:19:57,319 --> 00:20:01,640
seven years later there was a lady who looked after

378
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:04,119
the house and she was like the housekeeper lady, and

379
00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,559
she had a couple of small dogs, and she in

380
00:20:07,720 --> 00:20:10,960
nineteen fifty seven, I think it was February again, still

381
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,200
a winter month, was also walking around the building and

382
00:20:15,279 --> 00:20:17,480
she was checking all the doors, making sure they're all

383
00:20:17,519 --> 00:20:20,880
locked up and everything, and her dogs started to bark,

384
00:20:21,279 --> 00:20:23,240
and they were barking at the top of the stairs

385
00:20:23,240 --> 00:20:25,880
that looked down into the same cellar or basement where

386
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:30,200
Harry had seen these Roman soldiers earlier. And the dogs

387
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,240
are barking, and she could see from the very top

388
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,920
of the stairs Roman soldiers again coming through that wall,

389
00:20:36,319 --> 00:20:39,839
but this time they were doing something slightly different. This

390
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,119
time they were on a load of horses, but all

391
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:45,759
their Roman soldiers appeared to be asleep on their horses

392
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,359
as they came through, as almost as the horses were

393
00:20:48,440 --> 00:20:51,759
leading them back to the base. And these Roman soldiers

394
00:20:51,799 --> 00:20:54,680
are absolutely whacked out, knackered, as we say in the UK.

395
00:20:55,319 --> 00:20:58,440
And again she observed that they were covered in mud

396
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:02,200
as well. So my theory is, and Mark sort of

397
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:06,440
highlighted this simultaneous time idea, and a lot of people

398
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:09,119
talk about this idea of the stone tape theory, where

399
00:21:09,319 --> 00:21:13,480
supposedly old brick walls or stone buildings and things can

400
00:21:13,519 --> 00:21:18,119
somehow record an occurrence in the walls and it can

401
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:21,319
get replayed back and people seeing the same action happening

402
00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:24,319
again and again. But in this particular occasion, I don't

403
00:21:24,480 --> 00:21:28,440
think that would apply simply because the lady who saw

404
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:32,079
the Romans seven years later or whatever, the caretaker lady,

405
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:35,000
her dogs saw them first of all, but she said

406
00:21:35,079 --> 00:21:38,119
she saw them on horses all asleep coming through, whereas

407
00:21:38,119 --> 00:21:42,279
Harry Martindale had seen his Roman souldiers coming through the

408
00:21:42,319 --> 00:21:45,440
wall with one horse and all the others were on foot,

409
00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:48,599
and they were talking and they were covering them, so

410
00:21:48,960 --> 00:21:51,680
they were doing a slightly different action, but still using

411
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:56,119
that Roman road that was underneath this building. So my

412
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,960
theory is that if time was simultaneous, Harry Martindale was

413
00:22:01,079 --> 00:22:05,160
in his winter time looking back through time or a

414
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,880
time window maybe to the wintertime of maybe a thousand

415
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,359
years ago, when those Roman soldiers were walking down that

416
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:17,640
road on their winter's day, maybe in November nineteen fifty three.

417
00:22:18,039 --> 00:22:21,119
And this explains the mud on them because they would

418
00:22:21,119 --> 00:22:25,359
get splatted in mud more likely in the wintertime because

419
00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,720
there's rain and there's mud. There's no obviously proper roads

420
00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:32,160
in those days. And then later on when this caretaker

421
00:22:32,279 --> 00:22:35,160
lady she saw them covered in mud, but she saw

422
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,119
them in February nineteen fifty seven, so again it would

423
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,880
be a winter's month, probably wet again, and it would

424
00:22:42,920 --> 00:22:45,599
explain the mud seen on those Roman soldiers that she

425
00:22:45,720 --> 00:22:49,400
was seeing them on the February of their time, if

426
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,720
you like that, a thousand years ago in the past.

427
00:22:51,759 --> 00:22:54,920
So it's like their months are running simultaneously. With our

428
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:58,720
months or seasons, but a thousand years ago, if you like.

429
00:22:58,880 --> 00:23:01,839
So time is everything call at once and we're literally

430
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:06,200
peering through like a lens to another time happening simultaneously

431
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:09,960
with us. That's my perception anyway.

432
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, sounds like two different platoons at two different times. Yeah,

433
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:17,400
that reenacts at the same time every year.

434
00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:20,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't think you can say that Harry

435
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,480
Martindale was hallucinating because they've been seen by other people

436
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,160
obviously that even when he ran up the stairs in fright,

437
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:30,759
there was a caretaker in that point that said, it

438
00:23:30,799 --> 00:23:32,960
looks like you've seen those Roman ghosts. So it sounds

439
00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:36,559
like a lot of people had seen these things down

440
00:23:36,599 --> 00:23:39,359
in there in that particular cellar, and it's only perhaps

441
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:43,400
when they had disturbed the ground, perhaps where they'd start

442
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,559
to dig for a Roman road or something, that they

443
00:23:47,599 --> 00:23:51,119
started to perceive them. So maybe dig in and exposing

444
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:54,480
these surfaces opens up some sort of time window or

445
00:23:54,519 --> 00:23:57,720
something called psychic psychic portal or something. I don't know,

446
00:23:58,400 --> 00:23:59,559
Well that's what they say, don't know.

447
00:23:59,559 --> 00:24:02,200
Speaker 4: They say that, you know, you start knocking down walls

448
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,039
in your house and everythink you can get the activity

449
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:05,880
runted up.

450
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where you get the typical kind of apologized

451
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:13,359
activity that seems to occur and when people seem to

452
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,799
have been doing decorating, particularly in older houses. That's the

453
00:24:16,839 --> 00:24:20,079
case in the Doddalston case as well, which happened in

454
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:23,480
about nineteen eighty four in the village of Doddalston on

455
00:24:23,519 --> 00:24:26,599
the border between Wales and England. Are you familiar with

456
00:24:26,599 --> 00:24:28,200
that case of talk, the Doddalston case.

457
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:30,680
Speaker 4: No, I'm not.

458
00:24:31,559 --> 00:24:32,799
Speaker 2: Okay, it is in the book.

459
00:24:35,079 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 4: I might be.

460
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it might be, but I don't recall it. All right,

461
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:41,599
I'll tell you it, and you're probably you might have

462
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,480
heard of it. So I first came across his story

463
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,039
in the program called Out of This World, which was

464
00:24:48,039 --> 00:24:50,720
broadcast in the early nineteen nineties. But I think it's

465
00:24:50,759 --> 00:24:55,799
Carol Worderman who hosted the show, and basically this this

466
00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:01,119
guy called Ken Webster. He was a teacher and he

467
00:25:01,319 --> 00:25:05,000
was like, you know, I think he borrowed an early

468
00:25:05,079 --> 00:25:08,839
BBC micro computer and I never owned one, So I

469
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:13,079
don't exactly not familiar with them, but I've seen enough

470
00:25:13,079 --> 00:25:14,880
of them on the TV programs to kind of get

471
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,279
an idea of what they're on about. And this was

472
00:25:17,279 --> 00:25:20,119
a basically a kind of a basic word processor, I guess,

473
00:25:20,400 --> 00:25:23,640
and he borrowed one, and he taught this girl called

474
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,599
Nicola who was staying at his cottage along with his

475
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:29,599
girlfriend Debbie, how to operate it. And he would say,

476
00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:31,920
you know, you type on here and you save it

477
00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,559
to this dloppy disc and that's it sort of thing.

478
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:39,599
And so she was practicing on it, and then they

479
00:25:39,599 --> 00:25:41,079
would go off to the pub and then come back

480
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:44,599
and the computer switched on. They'd start getting messages from someone.

481
00:25:45,079 --> 00:25:48,440
And it turned out that these messages were written in

482
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,240
what they called Early Modern English, not Old English, early

483
00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:55,039
Modern English. And it seemed to be coming from someone

484
00:25:55,079 --> 00:25:58,519
who called himself Lucas, but in fact the name Lucas

485
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:02,720
was a cover name. His name was, I forget his

486
00:26:02,799 --> 00:26:08,440
name now, Thomas Thomas. And he was apparently writing in

487
00:26:08,480 --> 00:26:11,680
the time of Henry the eighth or thereabouts, or so

488
00:26:11,759 --> 00:26:17,039
he claimed. And again, well, I think it was more

489
00:26:17,039 --> 00:26:21,640
of a sort of again a window through time. On

490
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,440
the surface of it, he was somehow writing what he

491
00:26:25,519 --> 00:26:28,720
called through a strange box of lights. Now in his

492
00:26:28,839 --> 00:26:31,160
Early Modern English to writing was very hard to understand.

493
00:26:31,160 --> 00:26:33,880
So someone who understood that had to kind of translate

494
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:38,039
what he was saying, and he called it a leam's voiced,

495
00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:42,160
but that actually literally translates as box of lights. And

496
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:45,200
so from what they could perceive, it looked like this

497
00:26:45,319 --> 00:26:50,519
guy in the Middle Ages had got a computer. Now

498
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,400
that's crazy, but this is what he was describing. But

499
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,559
they said, how do you operate this? And he says, well,

500
00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,680
my maid, who is like a four year old girl

501
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:02,799
that you know, worked with him, and she would tie

502
00:27:02,839 --> 00:27:04,200
to the house and to look like in or whatever

503
00:27:04,240 --> 00:27:08,680
she did, she would be singing apparently, and when she

504
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:11,720
sang a song, he said he would see the words

505
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:16,079
form on the strange box of lights. So later on

506
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:19,279
in the later edition of the book, Ken Webster sort

507
00:27:19,279 --> 00:27:23,160
of wondered if it's something like some AI type of

508
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,599
computer where he didn't physically have to type keys, he

509
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,680
could literally talk into him. And one of the questions

510
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,319
they did say how do you operate? And he says,

511
00:27:31,559 --> 00:27:35,440
I speak my words and it happens.

512
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,920
Speaker 5: Or voice in the text. Yeah, a voice that's not

513
00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:41,920
even AI. That's just very simple voice to text.

514
00:27:42,119 --> 00:27:44,799
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that's more advanced than the BBC micro

515
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:47,799
computer they were using in nineteen eighty four and this

516
00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:52,720
wasn't connected to the Internet, because one of the accusations was, oh,

517
00:27:52,880 --> 00:27:55,400
you were using some kind of modem and you know,

518
00:27:55,599 --> 00:27:57,319
and he said, well, look, even if it was a

519
00:27:57,359 --> 00:27:59,599
modem somehow that no one even knew what they were

520
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,799
in those and I connected it up somehow, it would

521
00:28:03,799 --> 00:28:08,000
have only been dial up, no broadband. So over a

522
00:28:08,039 --> 00:28:09,680
period of a year and a half to two years

523
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,039
that we were getting these messages, I worked it out

524
00:28:13,079 --> 00:28:15,920
that it would have cost me in that time period,

525
00:28:16,559 --> 00:28:19,799
using BT, which was the only telephone provider at the

526
00:28:19,839 --> 00:28:22,759
time in the UK, British Telecom, it would have cost

527
00:28:22,799 --> 00:28:27,000
me one hundred and eighty seven thousand pounds. He said,

528
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,119
would I do that, you know, with a modem and

529
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:33,920
waste all that for some joke, you know, a very

530
00:28:33,960 --> 00:28:37,799
expensive joke or whatever. And they got a friend of

531
00:28:37,839 --> 00:28:39,880
theirs at the school who was an English teacher and

532
00:28:39,920 --> 00:28:42,079
he knew a bit about this kind of old language

533
00:28:42,079 --> 00:28:44,319
and he was studying it and he worked out that

534
00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:49,960
whoever was writing this originated from the Gloucestershire area because

535
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,480
of the words that they were using the local dialect

536
00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:55,880
of that area, and the guy had mentioned Bristol and

537
00:28:55,920 --> 00:28:58,799
he mentioned Oxford and places like that. But it took

538
00:28:58,839 --> 00:29:01,920
a bit of a twist this store, because when Kem

539
00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:05,240
was writing back to him and saying about his car

540
00:29:05,319 --> 00:29:07,440
and things like that, he said, this is this is

541
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,079
a wagon without a horse, and he didn't understand what

542
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,039
he meant. He said, But we live in the time

543
00:29:13,119 --> 00:29:19,039
of Queen Elizabeth in the year nineteen eighty four. This Thomas,

544
00:29:19,359 --> 00:29:22,680
who was writing from the medieval times, was saying, oh,

545
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:26,400
I thought you came from the same time as the

546
00:29:26,559 --> 00:29:30,640
other person that gave me the box of lights gave

547
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:33,880
me the box of lights from twenty one oh nine,

548
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,960
from the year twenty one oh nine. So, in other words,

549
00:29:37,039 --> 00:29:40,599
someone from our future in the year twenty one oh nine,

550
00:29:41,000 --> 00:29:45,920
so they claimed, was apparently also communicating with this guy

551
00:29:46,039 --> 00:29:50,920
in the past, and this character from the past. Thomas

552
00:29:51,400 --> 00:29:55,960
said that in his chimney a green light shone and

553
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,960
outstepped from the chimney this man with the leams boy

554
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,119
the box of lights and gave it to them as

555
00:30:02,119 --> 00:30:06,440
if he had traveled through a portal or something. And presumably, yeah,

556
00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,720
here you go, get on with it. But that's not

557
00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:12,079
the whole case, because there was other things happening like

558
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,920
poltergeist activity around them. He could seem to see them,

559
00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:19,559
and this guy Thomas in the past said that you're

560
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:22,880
in my house. I live there, and I can see

561
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,720
you in my house in my time. So to him

562
00:30:25,759 --> 00:30:29,079
in his time, they were like ghosts, but they couldn't

563
00:30:29,119 --> 00:30:30,440
see him, which was interesting.

564
00:30:31,839 --> 00:30:34,359
Speaker 5: I think that's probably one of the more fascinating stories

565
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,079
I've ever heard.

566
00:30:35,720 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely in the books, so when you get there,

567
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,720
you can reinitiate yourself with this story. And it comes

568
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,759
from the book, which is well worth a read if

569
00:30:43,799 --> 00:30:48,359
anyone's wanting to find that out. Is called The Vertical

570
00:30:48,559 --> 00:30:52,240
Plane by Ken Webster. Now you might find copies on

571
00:30:52,279 --> 00:30:55,279
Amazon for like one hundred and fifty pounds that Ken

572
00:30:55,319 --> 00:30:58,599
Webster has kindly bought out a cheaper version where it's

573
00:30:58,599 --> 00:31:01,279
a new addition and he's got some additional text in

574
00:31:01,319 --> 00:31:04,039
there talking about updates and things, and that's the one

575
00:31:04,079 --> 00:31:06,279
I bought for like sixteen or seventeen pounds. But it's

576
00:31:06,279 --> 00:31:08,599
called the Vertical Plane. And the reason it's called the

577
00:31:08,680 --> 00:31:11,440
vertical Plane is that the being from twenty one oh

578
00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:16,680
nine described somehow all this was working through something called

579
00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,440
the vertical plane, which is very high brow scientific kind

580
00:31:20,480 --> 00:31:21,759
of physics I gather.

581
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,720
Speaker 4: Which hasn't really hasn't happened in airtime yet, but in

582
00:31:25,759 --> 00:31:28,920
twenty one oh nine, this can happen that.

583
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:29,519
Speaker 5: We know of.

584
00:31:31,319 --> 00:31:33,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's plently of videos on YouTube. You

585
00:31:33,359 --> 00:31:34,920
can find out about it as well if you just

586
00:31:34,960 --> 00:31:36,759
want to dip your toe into the water and kind

587
00:31:36,759 --> 00:31:38,559
of get a fill for the story. But yeah, it's

588
00:31:38,599 --> 00:31:40,839
certainly in a lot of detail in the actual book,

589
00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:41,759
the Vertical Plane.

590
00:31:42,359 --> 00:31:49,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I'm fascinating again. I'm stammering because there's

591
00:31:49,279 --> 00:31:55,279
just so much different information on this. But what I

592
00:31:55,799 --> 00:31:59,599
what did I want to say? You know, I want

593
00:31:59,599 --> 00:32:01,960
to say, you know, when you're when we start talking

594
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:06,079
about time travel, which I do believe is possible, we

595
00:32:06,279 --> 00:32:09,200
just to my knowledge, we haven't figured it out yet.

596
00:32:10,000 --> 00:32:14,440
But then you start thinking about what Stephen, doctor Stephen

597
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,799
Hawking said at one point, you know, of if time

598
00:32:17,839 --> 00:32:24,400
travel was real, we're all the tourists, so you know,

599
00:32:24,519 --> 00:32:26,640
maybe it's in the hands of a very few people.

600
00:32:26,960 --> 00:32:30,640
I mean, I've heard of the project Pegasus that are

601
00:32:30,799 --> 00:32:35,079
the US government supposedly did out in montac years ago,

602
00:32:36,279 --> 00:32:40,640
and you know, so it's it's again time travel is

603
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:44,519
always everybody one of everybody's favorite types of subjects because

604
00:32:44,519 --> 00:32:46,279
there's so many different stories about it.

605
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the thing that Stephen Horgan said, where

606
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:54,440
all the people? But you know, people are seeing these

607
00:32:55,000 --> 00:32:59,079
ghosts if you want according ghosts all the time. There's

608
00:32:59,319 --> 00:33:02,240
a lady that I know here where I live, and

609
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:05,160
I was telling her about the Roman Ghosts of York

610
00:33:05,240 --> 00:33:09,559
story and she goes, oh, my husband saw some Roman

611
00:33:09,599 --> 00:33:12,240
ghosts when he came to pick me up from the hospital.

612
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,359
And I said, really, what happened? And she said, well,

613
00:33:15,359 --> 00:33:18,319
I didn't see them, but he was in the car

614
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,480
and my daughter and they were coming to pick me up.

615
00:33:20,519 --> 00:33:23,240
And as they came round the bend, they nearly ran

616
00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:27,200
over them. And there's like six or seven Roman soldiers

617
00:33:27,559 --> 00:33:30,039
crossing the road out in front of them. He put

618
00:33:30,119 --> 00:33:33,160
the brakes on. Act you would you see these people think,

619
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:34,559
oh my god, I don't want to hit these people.

620
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,440
They seemed oblivious to the vehicle. They just walked straight

621
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:40,200
across the road, out of one building into another, not

622
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,680
even through a door, just disappeared through the wall. So

623
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,240
maybe we think of them as ghosts, but maybe there

624
00:33:47,279 --> 00:33:51,720
are unwitting time travelers that are not even aware that

625
00:33:51,759 --> 00:33:52,680
they're being spotted.

626
00:33:55,839 --> 00:34:01,279
Speaker 5: True. True, you know, kind of going back on the

627
00:34:01,359 --> 00:34:05,119
stone tape theory, which I know is very popular amongst

628
00:34:05,119 --> 00:34:08,559
a lot of researchers. I personally have always had kind

629
00:34:08,599 --> 00:34:11,239
of a trouble with it. But then I started to think,

630
00:34:11,320 --> 00:34:15,360
because when you start looking at all the megalithic structures,

631
00:34:16,039 --> 00:34:20,480
the standing stones, you know, used in rituals and whatnot,

632
00:34:20,519 --> 00:34:26,400
and they do show that certain stones granite with lots

633
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:32,360
of quartz in it. Oh my god, my brain has

634
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:36,519
really checked out tonight limestone and such. You know, they

635
00:34:36,559 --> 00:34:40,440
have those properties that can hang onto energy or focus energy,

636
00:34:41,119 --> 00:34:48,000
so you know, maybe that's possible. But very rarely do

637
00:34:48,079 --> 00:34:51,039
you hear of a case of something that happens like clockwork,

638
00:34:52,119 --> 00:34:54,800
over and over again at the exact same time. I mean,

639
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:57,039
I edited a story years ago about a hotel in

640
00:34:57,119 --> 00:35:01,440
Colorado where they mentioned that, like three o'clock in the morning,

641
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,159
this ghost of a woman would come out. She'd always

642
00:35:06,199 --> 00:35:10,880
act exactly the same and come out and dressed in

643
00:35:10,960 --> 00:35:15,719
like Victorian clothing and go up and look at this

644
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:20,559
big clock in the lobby like she was waiting for someone.

645
00:35:20,559 --> 00:35:22,760
And then she walks off and disappears, and they said

646
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,400
it happened almost nightly. And then the investigator that I

647
00:35:27,559 --> 00:35:31,639
knew of who went there looking into it, found out

648
00:35:31,679 --> 00:35:38,360
that not only was there a residual what they call

649
00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,480
a residual haunting in regards to stone tape theory, but

650
00:35:42,599 --> 00:35:45,320
then there was still an act of haunting too, that

651
00:35:45,360 --> 00:35:49,199
spirit of that woman was actually still there and would

652
00:35:49,199 --> 00:35:54,320
be seen multiple times along with the other recording, so

653
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,599
to say, so the whole thing is really fascinating.

654
00:36:00,159 --> 00:36:03,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's with the stone tape theory. I mean, I

655
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:05,719
think that was early people that were trying to kind

656
00:36:05,719 --> 00:36:09,639
of apply some sort of mechanical logic to the situation.

657
00:36:11,159 --> 00:36:14,320
But perhaps they weren't up on the quantum physics, because

658
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:16,679
no one's really talking about quantum physics when these ideas

659
00:36:16,679 --> 00:36:19,519
were put around. In fact, that the whole stone tap theory,

660
00:36:19,519 --> 00:36:23,599
from what I read, actually emerged from a play that

661
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:26,039
was produced on the BBC in the nineteen seventies, and

662
00:36:26,079 --> 00:36:30,239
it's written down as a kind of a hypothetical idea

663
00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:32,960
in a paranormal play that was produced in the nineteen seventies.

664
00:36:33,079 --> 00:36:36,639
So most people were getting their stone tape theory from

665
00:36:36,679 --> 00:36:39,360
something like and it's not Doctor Who, but something like

666
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:42,519
Play for Today is what you know. I remember that

667
00:36:42,519 --> 00:36:45,000
that show Play for Today. It was something like that

668
00:36:45,039 --> 00:36:47,039
where this stone tap theory first emerged.

669
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:55,039
Speaker 5: There's also locations that seem to have this highly charged

670
00:36:55,239 --> 00:37:02,239
energy about the locations that seemed to attract or somehow

671
00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:07,400
channel paranormal energy and experiences. When I first moved to

672
00:37:07,559 --> 00:37:12,599
New Jersey twenty five years ago, and the first house

673
00:37:12,639 --> 00:37:16,320
I stayed in, I started experiencing activity. Then I found

674
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:19,559
out some of the houses around me were experiencing activity,

675
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:21,880
So it got me into the paranormal to begin with.

676
00:37:22,679 --> 00:37:25,280
And then I moved later to another house, and there

677
00:37:25,360 --> 00:37:28,960
was in this area there were other houses having activity,

678
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:32,519
but it was all based around this small mountain that

679
00:37:32,639 --> 00:37:35,440
was in the community right the hill right behind most

680
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,280
of the houses. And in this area up here there's

681
00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,920
lots of granite and underground rivers and all sorts of

682
00:37:45,679 --> 00:37:48,679
things that may or may not have anything to do

683
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,400
with it. But then again I also felt a lot

684
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:52,920
of it was elemental.

685
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:57,079
Speaker 2: Too, which I do tool about in the book as well.

686
00:37:57,119 --> 00:38:00,639
The elementals of the Faery Kingdom, the Fake Kingdom at

687
00:38:00,639 --> 00:38:03,679
the very beginning of the book come on let's have

688
00:38:03,719 --> 00:38:08,440
some of that. Neil, Well, yeah, they consider him on.

689
00:38:08,519 --> 00:38:10,559
Speaker 4: My husband saw upstairs the other way.

690
00:38:10,679 --> 00:38:12,559
Speaker 2: Oh, I'd like to hear about that in a minute, then,

691
00:38:12,679 --> 00:38:13,960
so I have.

692
00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 4: Goblin.

693
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:18,599
Speaker 2: I have told this story a few times on the

694
00:38:18,599 --> 00:38:21,599
Paranorm UK radio network, so if anyone's familiar with it,

695
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:24,880
apologies you've heard it before. But for those that haven't

696
00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:32,320
heard it, basically, it's concerns a guy who was I

697
00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:36,000
think it was a Glasswegian builder called Steve o'delle. And

698
00:38:36,039 --> 00:38:38,840
I found out about this story from a DVD that

699
00:38:39,239 --> 00:38:41,159
I think you can actually see it on YouTube now

700
00:38:41,559 --> 00:38:46,079
called The Fairy Faith by a Canadian filmmaker called John Walker,

701
00:38:46,599 --> 00:38:50,079
and he interviewed various people that had gone round you know,

702
00:38:50,199 --> 00:38:54,239
various places Canada and Scotland, Island, Wales, place like that

703
00:38:54,360 --> 00:38:58,400
where people believe they'd had these weird fairy encounters. And

704
00:38:58,679 --> 00:39:01,639
this Steve o'delle had he'd gone to I initially thought

705
00:39:01,719 --> 00:39:05,880
was Island, but in fact it was one of the mountains, sorry,

706
00:39:06,199 --> 00:39:09,719
one of the mountains in Scotland that was near the

707
00:39:09,760 --> 00:39:12,440
Fairy four It was actually called the Fairy Hill or something,

708
00:39:13,039 --> 00:39:16,800
and it had just rained and the rain was now

709
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:20,159
drying out, but the clouds were parting, and he was

710
00:39:20,159 --> 00:39:22,519
looking out of the view and a rainbow was forming

711
00:39:22,559 --> 00:39:24,400
over the valley, and he thought, what a lovely view.

712
00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:27,719
That is absolutely stunning view. And whilst he was looking

713
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,039
at that, he said that there was something by his

714
00:39:31,159 --> 00:39:34,199
peripheral vision, down by his feet, there's some movement. But

715
00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:36,800
he didn't want to take his eyes off the view

716
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,159
that was unfolding before him. Where the clouds are parted,

717
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,719
beautiful rainbow over the valley. What a lovely view that was.

718
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,159
But all the while there was this movement down by

719
00:39:45,199 --> 00:39:47,440
his feet, and it bugged him, so he decided to

720
00:39:47,440 --> 00:39:49,440
look down and see what is that down there? And

721
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:53,440
he saw this small brown woman with a brown leathery

722
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:58,360
looking hat, and she had what he described they looked

723
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:03,199
like an old pair of sheep shears, and she was

724
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:08,440
cutting like with his sheep shears around the sole of

725
00:40:08,519 --> 00:40:13,559
his shoe. And where his shadow extended out at the

726
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:15,719
end of his shadow, because it was a long shadow,

727
00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:18,159
I guess by the end of the afternoon, his long

728
00:40:18,199 --> 00:40:22,199
shadow extended out. There was the equivalent of this other lady,

729
00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:26,159
this small brown lady. It's the male equivalent like her husband.

730
00:40:26,159 --> 00:40:28,679
If you like, and this is where it gets freaking.

731
00:40:28,719 --> 00:40:32,280
I always tell people to strap in, because he was

732
00:40:32,559 --> 00:40:38,840
rolling up the guy's shadow like paper, and this Steve Odeale,

733
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:41,840
the witness, suddenly said, I didn't know what to say

734
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:45,079
or do. I just looked at them and said I

735
00:40:45,119 --> 00:40:47,559
And he said they looked at each other as if

736
00:40:47,599 --> 00:40:50,039
they thought, oh my god, he can see us. And

737
00:40:50,039 --> 00:40:52,760
then they went push and just vanished. And he said,

738
00:40:52,880 --> 00:40:55,559
I dreaded to think what would have happened to me

739
00:40:55,960 --> 00:40:59,960
had I had not seen them, which I thought was really.

740
00:41:00,559 --> 00:41:03,719
Speaker 4: Well, what do you think would have happened, Neil, Well,

741
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:05,800
they're taking taking his shadow?

742
00:41:06,079 --> 00:41:09,320
Speaker 2: A shadow, it seems a technical impossibility. It goes against

743
00:41:09,320 --> 00:41:13,920
physics that we understand. But then vanishing also goes against physics.

744
00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,880
But it sounds like that they could be taking some

745
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:21,480
of his energy in some way, like a vampire. Might

746
00:41:21,880 --> 00:41:25,280
you know, get these legends of vampires taking the shadow?

747
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,199
What does that mean? You know? And I thought about

748
00:41:28,199 --> 00:41:30,639
this for a long time, and I thought, Okay, it's

749
00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:35,079
just rained. The sun has now come out, and these

750
00:41:35,159 --> 00:41:38,760
beings had to wait for a shadow to form before

751
00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:41,320
they could steal it. So, in other words, they saw

752
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:44,400
this guy, maybe they knew it was going to stop

753
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,280
raining soon, and as soon as that shadow formed, they

754
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,840
were going to take it. And it's like they were

755
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,119
shadow steelers. I think I caught him shadow stealers in

756
00:41:52,119 --> 00:41:55,280
the book. And for whatever reason they use shadows, god

757
00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:59,360
only knows. But they call these creatures brownies, I believe.

758
00:42:00,639 --> 00:42:04,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, we have we have something similar to that here

759
00:42:04,440 --> 00:42:08,320
in the States. In North Carolina, they have stories of

760
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:12,840
the of the brown people and they're all little, small

761
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:13,519
brown people.

762
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're They're not really nice. I don't think

763
00:42:17,119 --> 00:42:19,559
that they I mean, we spoke to a guy on

764
00:42:19,599 --> 00:42:22,920
a paranormal peep show a few months ago who called Simon,

765
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,679
who looks at these stories, and he said that a

766
00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:30,159
guy woke up once and one of these brown people

767
00:42:30,199 --> 00:42:33,800
sitting on his bed with a bag. He said that

768
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,679
they looked at him, and he said they they were

769
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:39,559
looking at He said, he doesn't. He always remembers the description.

770
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:42,360
They looked at him as if it was like someone

771
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:46,800
iron up a horse at market. Is a good horse?

772
00:42:46,840 --> 00:42:48,880
You know, they were looking at him as a commodity

773
00:42:49,199 --> 00:42:50,079
rather than as a person.

774
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:58,679
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, that's we're here in the States. I you know,

775
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:01,880
reach in and grab my pistola.

776
00:43:01,559 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 4: And but it's just a bottle of hairlo for me.

777
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,199
Speaker 5: Well, why don't you follow that up, Irene with nobl

778
00:43:14,280 --> 00:43:14,840
in the Goblin?

779
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:20,920
Speaker 4: No blowing the goblin. Oh, Nobling the Goblin's always lived

780
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:23,000
in this house as far as we can say. I

781
00:43:23,119 --> 00:43:25,519
used to joke that he lived under the stairs and

782
00:43:25,639 --> 00:43:29,400
used to sit on the hoover and peep through the

783
00:43:29,599 --> 00:43:33,519
crack of the door at people. But he's always been around,

784
00:43:33,599 --> 00:43:36,840
and if something goes missing, it was blamed on nobling

785
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,599
the Goblin because we used to hear strange noises, bangs,

786
00:43:40,639 --> 00:43:44,440
creeks and everything. With the grandchildren here, having a goblin

787
00:43:44,519 --> 00:43:46,960
in the house is a lot better than having a ghost,

788
00:43:47,440 --> 00:43:51,960
because it's more cuddlier or in their ideas head, you know,

789
00:43:52,079 --> 00:43:57,159
it's kind of something they could It's like a fairy

790
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:01,880
story rather than ghosts. Anyway, So nobbling the Goblin was born.

791
00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:09,920
And I've often felt vibrations under the bed, vibration on

792
00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:13,159
the bed, as if it's got on there, and one

793
00:44:13,159 --> 00:44:16,519
thing or another and anyway everything goes on. It's down

794
00:44:16,559 --> 00:44:19,960
to nobbling the goblin a right, it's all blamed on

795
00:44:20,039 --> 00:44:22,800
noting the goblin. But Brian was in bed the other

796
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,039
day in the other room because I'm not sleeping well,

797
00:44:26,159 --> 00:44:30,920
So he slept in the guest room and he's laying

798
00:44:30,960 --> 00:44:36,199
there and it's got this massive, great window that nearly

799
00:44:36,239 --> 00:44:39,400
touches the floor, and we're mark in that room that

800
00:44:39,559 --> 00:44:47,320
you're staying. And he was facing the window and it's

801
00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:50,079
a it's a bud of these raw time beds, you.

802
00:44:50,039 --> 00:44:55,519
Speaker 5: Know, with the with the marctic gold the headboard which

803
00:44:55,559 --> 00:44:57,760
is like bars y.

804
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:02,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so in fact, he sensed a movement out

805
00:45:02,960 --> 00:45:04,760
the corner of his eyes, so he turned and looked

806
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:08,119
at the bars at the headboard of the bed. It's

807
00:45:08,159 --> 00:45:11,559
still laying on his side, and there was his face there,

808
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:16,519
and it was like it was a kind of a

809
00:45:16,519 --> 00:45:22,599
fleshy color, right, but it also had like a pig

810
00:45:22,760 --> 00:45:26,360
nose in the middle of his face and they were

811
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:30,559
staring at him. Oh yeah, and.

812
00:45:30,440 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 5: What about it, he had those little arms on.

813
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:40,159
Speaker 4: It, little little arms, yeah, little little arms, you know. Anyway,

814
00:45:40,199 --> 00:45:43,239
it was there, and it moved across across behind the bars,

815
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:47,000
peeping out at him, and then it just vanished. It

816
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,960
just no long got into bed. So it was still

817
00:45:52,960 --> 00:45:56,199
wide awake, right, Yeah.

818
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:58,440
Speaker 5: Brian said something to it to make it go away.

819
00:45:58,559 --> 00:46:04,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah he did. He used my my what do

820
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:08,880
you call it, my your usual.

821
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:10,960
Speaker 2: Colorful language.

822
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they're four.

823
00:46:15,559 --> 00:46:19,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I hope the Goblin could spell.

824
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 4: So whether that was not blo in the Goblin for

825
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:25,719
the showing himself for the very first time, I don't know.

826
00:46:26,119 --> 00:46:29,719
But when my son was a child in London, when

827
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:31,920
he was two years old, he used to see a

828
00:46:31,920 --> 00:46:34,360
little man walk through the wall and he used to

829
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,960
walk through the wall, walk through his bed, stand beside

830
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,719
his bed and then try to get on the bed

831
00:46:41,840 --> 00:46:44,760
with him. And he was a very tiny little man

832
00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:48,880
and he said he was green green. Interesting, yeah, and

833
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:51,719
that was he was what spoke, Yeah, it was. It

834
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:56,760
was no older than two m he come. He used

835
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:58,559
to come into us every night and try to get

836
00:46:58,559 --> 00:47:01,599
into air bed to sleep with his and dad and

837
00:47:01,679 --> 00:47:04,000
we couldn't figure out why. And then then we got

838
00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:05,880
the story out of him at a little.

839
00:47:05,639 --> 00:47:09,119
Speaker 2: Man, wow, huh.

840
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:12,159
Speaker 4: Yeah, he will even now he's in his faulties, he

841
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:13,719
will say he saw that.

842
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:14,880
Speaker 2: Wow.

843
00:47:15,519 --> 00:47:18,840
Speaker 5: Well I remember when I came over a year and

844
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,519
a half ago and I think nobl and the Goblin

845
00:47:23,039 --> 00:47:25,119
came up behind me while I was brushing my teeth

846
00:47:25,119 --> 00:47:28,199
in the bathroom and poked me twice in my butt.

847
00:47:29,159 --> 00:47:31,280
Speaker 4: You're not the only You're not the only person that's

848
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:32,079
had that done.

849
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, it felt like a finger pop poop in my

850
00:47:36,960 --> 00:47:40,920
butt cheek and turn around, nothing's there and gone, okay.

851
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:46,519
I read about it later and several people.

852
00:47:46,559 --> 00:47:49,480
Speaker 4: But you also got some sensation in the bedroom, didn't

853
00:47:49,519 --> 00:47:51,400
you something being there?

854
00:47:51,719 --> 00:47:55,039
Speaker 5: Well, in that bedroom that Brian slept in. Yeah, it's

855
00:47:55,079 --> 00:47:58,000
where I stayed, and there was the one night I

856
00:47:58,199 --> 00:48:01,480
was lying there and I usually where an eye shade

857
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,800
to cut off light, so haven't I got into a

858
00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:08,519
while ago and I didn't see anything, but I felt

859
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:13,280
a very strong presence move up along the side of

860
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,400
the bed, standing right next to me. And I don't

861
00:48:16,400 --> 00:48:20,239
know why I react like this. I've had experiences like

862
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:25,000
this in my life and I'd never look. I just like, okay,

863
00:48:25,239 --> 00:48:27,960
you're there, let me alone. I'm trying to go to sleep,

864
00:48:28,440 --> 00:48:33,119
and then it goes away. So normally you would think

865
00:48:33,159 --> 00:48:36,039
people would be jumping up and like, oh my god,

866
00:48:36,079 --> 00:48:38,679
what did I just feel happened? I had sleep paralysis

867
00:48:39,760 --> 00:48:43,280
many many years ago that that would happen, and instead

868
00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:45,360
of jumping up after it went away, I'd go right

869
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:49,559
back to sleep. It's weird how the mind and body react.

870
00:48:50,199 --> 00:48:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, with the bed and the balls on the headboard bed,

871
00:48:56,119 --> 00:48:59,239
it was that made a volley, and of interest.

872
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:02,599
Speaker 4: My one is in my bedroom, but this is a

873
00:49:02,679 --> 00:49:04,159
cheaper version of my bed.

874
00:49:04,880 --> 00:49:05,639
Speaker 2: Right. It's just.

875
00:49:08,199 --> 00:49:08,880
Speaker 4: It's a metal.

876
00:49:09,599 --> 00:49:13,159
Speaker 2: Yeah, Fairies and beans like that don't like iron. It's

877
00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:15,920
like it's like a garlic to a vampire type of thing.

878
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:18,280
So that's why I was asking about it.

879
00:49:18,320 --> 00:49:24,079
Speaker 4: Interesting, mine's got brass on it as well, right, So

880
00:49:24,079 --> 00:49:26,840
this one is more it's a thinner metal.

881
00:49:28,079 --> 00:49:30,760
Speaker 2: You could try putting some bits of iron nails or

882
00:49:30,760 --> 00:49:34,039
anything like that around the area and that might stop it.

883
00:49:34,119 --> 00:49:35,679
I don't know, but it might be worth a try.

884
00:49:37,599 --> 00:49:40,719
So you're talking about the small beans around the bed

885
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:42,760
reminded me of the story that I put in the book,

886
00:49:42,800 --> 00:49:44,559
which a lady had come up to me. I'd gone

887
00:49:44,559 --> 00:49:48,920
to do a talk at the Probe conference a few

888
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:52,960
years ago, and I spoke about the creatures cutting away

889
00:49:52,960 --> 00:49:56,000
the shadow around the guy's foot, which led me then

890
00:49:56,079 --> 00:50:00,760
to talk about this is kind of too two parts

891
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,480
of this story. So I'll tell you the first story,

892
00:50:02,599 --> 00:50:05,039
and then i'll tell you about these creatures that this

893
00:50:05,159 --> 00:50:08,159
lady told me about. So what got her to come

894
00:50:08,199 --> 00:50:10,519
and talk to me was I then told a story

895
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:12,880
about a guy that I was on a plane with

896
00:50:12,920 --> 00:50:16,719
going to Spain some years ago, and there's a lot

897
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:19,639
of Spaniards heading back to Malagar in Spain, and this

898
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:22,639
guy got on. He looked Spanish, but it turned out

899
00:50:22,639 --> 00:50:25,119
he was from Iran and he sat next to him.

900
00:50:25,159 --> 00:50:28,119
He goes, I'm Iranian, but I prefer it to call

901
00:50:28,199 --> 00:50:30,960
it Persha, but you would know it as Iran. And

902
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:33,079
I said, oh, what are you going for a holiday.

903
00:50:33,079 --> 00:50:35,400
Then he goes, no, no, I'm going out to He says,

904
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,280
I live in London, but I'm going out to check

905
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,400
on the houses that I've designed out there, because I'm

906
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:44,119
an architect now. And so he said what do you do?

907
00:50:44,199 --> 00:50:47,159
And I said, well, I do art work, fairy drawings

908
00:50:47,199 --> 00:50:49,039
and that kind of stuff. And I told him the

909
00:50:49,079 --> 00:50:52,920
weird sort of tales aren't tenure now, and that got

910
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:55,599
him to open up a little bit and he said, well,

911
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:58,559
when I was a younger man, I was out in

912
00:50:58,599 --> 00:51:00,840
Iran and I was conscripted into the army and I

913
00:51:00,840 --> 00:51:03,280
had to do like the equivalent of national service out there,

914
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:06,280
and I put this to be about the late seventies,

915
00:51:06,320 --> 00:51:08,840
something like that, that this occurred him and he was

916
00:51:08,880 --> 00:51:12,519
walking around at night with his army buddy. There were

917
00:51:12,760 --> 00:51:14,639
two of them go around there, and he said a

918
00:51:14,679 --> 00:51:17,519
sandstorm had kicked up, and so they decided to go

919
00:51:17,559 --> 00:51:20,519
and seek shelter in this mosque. And what is traditional

920
00:51:20,559 --> 00:51:22,119
in his mosque, You have to take your shoes and

921
00:51:22,159 --> 00:51:23,800
your socks off. So they took their shoes and their

922
00:51:23,840 --> 00:51:26,559
socks off, went into the mosque. And this guy always

923
00:51:26,559 --> 00:51:29,320
called Hussein. He told his friend to go and lay

924
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:32,159
down and take a sleep, and he would keep an

925
00:51:32,199 --> 00:51:34,119
eye out. Hussein would keep an eye out, and he'd

926
00:51:34,159 --> 00:51:36,480
sit next to him with his rifle, and he would

927
00:51:36,519 --> 00:51:38,280
keep an eye out for any trouble. There's no one

928
00:51:38,320 --> 00:51:41,199
else in there. It's all very quiet. The storm was

929
00:51:41,239 --> 00:51:44,599
outside raging, it's all very quiet inside. But no matter

930
00:51:44,639 --> 00:51:48,320
how hard Hussein tried to stay awake, he kept nodding

931
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,719
off to sleep. And he nodded off three times and

932
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:54,079
woke up. But on the third time he woke up,

933
00:51:55,079 --> 00:51:58,000
he found that he wasn't alone. There was a lady

934
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:02,920
crouched down looking at his feet, his bare feet, and

935
00:52:03,039 --> 00:52:06,320
next to the lady was a girl who's maybe eleven

936
00:52:06,400 --> 00:52:09,719
twelve years of age, looking at his friend's feet, who

937
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,519
was laying next to him. Now at this point, they

938
00:52:12,559 --> 00:52:16,519
hadn't noticed that Hussein was awake, and Hussein decided to

939
00:52:16,559 --> 00:52:19,039
try and wake his friend up and was sleeping by

940
00:52:19,320 --> 00:52:22,280
pressing his elbow into his chest. And he said, I

941
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:25,320
kept pressing and pressing into his chest. Now matter how

942
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:28,440
hard I pressed into his chest, he wasn't going to

943
00:52:28,480 --> 00:52:31,639
wake up. So he said, I decided that I didn't

944
00:52:31,719 --> 00:52:34,199
like this situation. He said, he started to wrap the

945
00:52:34,239 --> 00:52:37,639
strap of the gun around his arm so it wouldn't

946
00:52:37,679 --> 00:52:39,920
swing as he ran away, which I thought was a

947
00:52:39,920 --> 00:52:42,360
bit funny, because you're the guy with a gun. Why

948
00:52:42,360 --> 00:52:44,480
are you going to do the running. But that's what

949
00:52:44,519 --> 00:52:46,280
he said he's going to do. And he said it

950
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,800
must have been this movement of him moving the strap

951
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,559
around his arm that alerted this lady. It must have

952
00:52:51,639 --> 00:52:54,239
caught her right, and he said she suddenly looked up

953
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,760
from looking at his feet and stared at him in

954
00:52:56,840 --> 00:52:59,039
the eyes. And he said, as soon as I made

955
00:52:59,079 --> 00:53:03,440
eye contact with her, I just knew something inside of me.

956
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,840
I just knew that she wasn't from this world. And

957
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,400
he said at that point she stood up, and the

958
00:53:09,480 --> 00:53:11,719
young girl with her stood up at the same time.

959
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:14,559
He said, they turned and walked away. And this is

960
00:53:14,599 --> 00:53:17,239
a bit that really got me. Said as they walked away,

961
00:53:17,760 --> 00:53:22,840
he said they he noticed they both had cloven hoofed feet,

962
00:53:23,159 --> 00:53:26,159
like cattle, and they just faded through the wall of

963
00:53:26,199 --> 00:53:28,320
the mosque and vanished. And when he told me that,

964
00:53:28,559 --> 00:53:31,519
a shivel literally went up and down my spine, and

965
00:53:31,559 --> 00:53:33,519
I thought, God, I've got to use that story somewhere.

966
00:53:33,559 --> 00:53:35,400
So I got his permission to use it in a

967
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,679
few writings, and I put it in this book. So

968
00:53:38,800 --> 00:53:42,360
that story I told at the probe conference, and afterwards

969
00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:45,239
this lady came up to me and she says, I'm

970
00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:48,719
so glad you told that story of those people with

971
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,599
the cloven hoofed feet. I'm not going mad then, and

972
00:53:51,639 --> 00:53:54,400
I said, why, what's happened to you? And she said

973
00:53:55,519 --> 00:53:59,239
that this is up in the Lancashire area north, you know,

974
00:53:59,280 --> 00:54:02,039
near Blackpool. And she said that she was in hospital there.

975
00:54:02,119 --> 00:54:04,639
She had given birth. Unfortunately to the stillborn baby. It

976
00:54:04,800 --> 00:54:07,400
died and they put in this room by herself to

977
00:54:07,440 --> 00:54:09,519
try and come to terms with it. They put the

978
00:54:09,599 --> 00:54:12,239
poor dead baby in a cot next to her, and

979
00:54:12,320 --> 00:54:13,800
she said that she sat on the end of the

980
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:16,480
bed and thinking, how earth am I going to get

981
00:54:16,519 --> 00:54:18,719
the strength to carry on? How am I going to

982
00:54:18,800 --> 00:54:20,960
look after my husband and the rest of my family

983
00:54:21,119 --> 00:54:23,719
when I've just had this happen to me? I, you know,

984
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:25,920
she couldn't carry on, and she had her head in

985
00:54:25,960 --> 00:54:29,239
her hands, and she said, suddenly the door opened and

986
00:54:29,519 --> 00:54:35,199
in came into the room four to five small centaur beings.

987
00:54:35,519 --> 00:54:39,480
So centaurs have traditionally beastlike bodies, if you think like

988
00:54:39,519 --> 00:54:42,199
a lower half of a horse, something like that, but

989
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:44,880
with a human body as the top part. So think

990
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,760
of sagittari as the archer on star signs. But she

991
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:52,280
said they weren't pretty. They were really ugly, these faces.

992
00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:54,880
And she said two of them went over and peered

993
00:54:54,880 --> 00:54:58,280
into the cop where this dead baby was and started

994
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:00,679
to look at the dead baby and the and started

995
00:55:00,679 --> 00:55:02,840
to look up at her. But she said, do you know,

996
00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,280
she says, as they looked at me, my whole mood

997
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,559
changed and lifted. It's almost as if somehow they'd done

998
00:55:09,639 --> 00:55:12,880
sort of some sort of healing spell or something, because

999
00:55:12,880 --> 00:55:15,800
I suddenly felt really strong and emotionally able to deal

1000
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:18,280
with it. But she goes, I don't remember what happened

1001
00:55:18,280 --> 00:55:20,719
to them. They were suddenly not there anymore. So she

1002
00:55:20,719 --> 00:55:22,639
because I thought, I've got to tell something because I'm

1003
00:55:22,679 --> 00:55:27,519
going crazy. So she obviously did you know, remember this incident?

1004
00:55:27,519 --> 00:55:29,800
And thought, well, was it the drugs I was on?

1005
00:55:29,840 --> 00:55:31,880
Maybe I wasn't on any drugs. I don't know, but

1006
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:34,280
she kept changing herself thinking she was going crazy. And

1007
00:55:34,320 --> 00:55:37,119
once I told her that story, it kind of like

1008
00:55:37,559 --> 00:55:40,239
it kind of underlined her own experience. It was some

1009
00:55:40,360 --> 00:55:41,280
validity to it.

1010
00:55:42,360 --> 00:55:46,679
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, just to clarify, were they like centaurs like

1011
00:55:46,880 --> 00:55:49,760
four legged or like sailors two legged?

1012
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:53,360
Speaker 2: No, these were these were centaurs. She called them centaur beans.

1013
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,760
But they still had cloven hoofed feet or horseshoes or

1014
00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:01,440
something like that. But they were half man, half creatures.

1015
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,639
And what got me interested in the first story where

1016
00:56:04,639 --> 00:56:07,360
he's in the mosque and he sees the cloven hoofed people,

1017
00:56:07,840 --> 00:56:09,960
is that you do hear these legends all the time

1018
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,000
of these people that have cloven hoofed feet, but they

1019
00:56:13,039 --> 00:56:15,440
have a human top half, and you're thinking, well, that's

1020
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:18,800
just Ray, Harry Howse and movies or something. But there

1021
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:24,559
seems to be a reality out there maybe intersects with

1022
00:56:24,639 --> 00:56:27,000
us in some way, that this is where these beings

1023
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,639
are getting seen, and these legends and maybe come from

1024
00:56:30,639 --> 00:56:31,440
those sightings.

1025
00:56:32,119 --> 00:56:36,599
Speaker 4: The legends of the clovenin from forms and everything go

1026
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:38,840
back years, don't they hundred years?

1027
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 2: That's right? I mean the famous pan, isn't it.

1028
00:56:41,960 --> 00:56:46,400
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a famous story. Well, I don't know how famous.

1029
00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,639
I saw it on a program once about in Ireland

1030
00:56:50,039 --> 00:56:53,679
a couple centuries ago. Down a stormy night, people are

1031
00:56:53,719 --> 00:56:56,920
playing poker in a tavern and this guy walks in

1032
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:00,880
and sits down and starts playing poker with him. And

1033
00:57:00,920 --> 00:57:03,559
then at one point one guy drops some cards, so

1034
00:57:03,599 --> 00:57:05,760
he reaches down to pick up the cards and saw

1035
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,719
that the stranger had cloven feet.

1036
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:08,760
Speaker 2: Wow.

1037
00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,280
Speaker 5: And and then the guy just vanished right there in

1038
00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:19,719
front of them. Oh yeah, well there's Do you remember

1039
00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:20,639
J C. Johnson?

1040
00:57:21,559 --> 00:57:23,880
Speaker 4: Yes, I remember, and Jesse stole them.

1041
00:57:25,119 --> 00:57:29,920
Speaker 5: He was a researcher out in looking out in like

1042
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:34,719
the Arizona Southwest area of the United States, and he

1043
00:57:34,880 --> 00:57:38,119
was investigating all sorts of kinds of activity that happens there,

1044
00:57:38,159 --> 00:57:41,519
which is very mystical, but he claims to have seen

1045
00:57:41,960 --> 00:57:45,840
on a few occasions centaurs out in the desert.

1046
00:57:47,519 --> 00:57:49,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. You know.

1047
00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,559
Speaker 5: At the time, I like kind of rolled my eyes

1048
00:57:51,559 --> 00:57:55,320
a little bit and think, you know, something before he

1049
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,960
saw it. But it makes much more sense now because

1050
00:57:59,039 --> 00:58:00,400
other people have seen this too.

1051
00:58:01,079 --> 00:58:03,440
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I came across a story and it

1052
00:58:03,519 --> 00:58:05,719
wasn't validated as such, but I saw a reference to it,

1053
00:58:05,719 --> 00:58:07,599
and I think it's out there in a book somewhere

1054
00:58:08,719 --> 00:58:14,480
where this person has seen a centaur at the base

1055
00:58:14,719 --> 00:58:19,880
of the great big monument, the Archway, the Archway that

1056
00:58:20,079 --> 00:58:23,159
is the gateway to the west in I get where

1057
00:58:23,199 --> 00:58:25,159
it is now in the states.

1058
00:58:25,360 --> 00:58:26,400
Speaker 5: Saint Louis, Missouri.

1059
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:29,760
Speaker 2: That's it in Saint Louis. That someone had seen a

1060
00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:33,639
centaur around the base there, and I thought all less interesting.

1061
00:58:33,679 --> 00:58:37,360
Now it kind of doesn't surprise me in a way

1062
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:41,079
because it is a base of an archway, and a

1063
00:58:41,079 --> 00:58:47,519
lot of people have cited beings like ghosts, spirits, whatever

1064
00:58:47,519 --> 00:58:49,239
you want to call them, and they always seem to

1065
00:58:49,239 --> 00:58:52,880
be standing in doorways. I mean, I spoke to a

1066
00:58:52,960 --> 00:58:54,880
lady the other day and she said that she saw

1067
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,599
her mother not long after she passed away standing in

1068
00:58:58,639 --> 00:59:01,679
the doorway of her bedrooms smiling hour. But they always

1069
00:59:01,679 --> 00:59:06,000
seem to be standing always. And in my book, I'd

1070
00:59:06,000 --> 00:59:11,719
go into a theory where in physical siances where spirits materialize,

1071
00:59:11,719 --> 00:59:14,760
a medium who's known as a physical medium, they're able

1072
00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:19,840
to produce physical spirits. But typically the norm for that

1073
00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:21,679
would be that they would go into what they call

1074
00:59:21,719 --> 00:59:26,039
a cabinet, which is something like a small kind of

1075
00:59:26,039 --> 00:59:30,199
think of a small wardrobe with maybe a curtain in

1076
00:59:30,239 --> 00:59:32,800
the front, and the medium would sit in there and

1077
00:59:32,880 --> 00:59:36,239
go to sleep or into a trance. But within the

1078
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,360
formation of this cabinet, a spirit would be able to

1079
00:59:39,480 --> 00:59:43,320
use the borders of this cabinet to maybe manipulate its

1080
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:47,000
energy and bounce it around to become then a solid being.

1081
00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:49,440
But I did ask this of a medium once who

1082
00:59:49,519 --> 00:59:51,519
was doing a similar thing today. But he was using

1083
00:59:51,519 --> 00:59:54,239
what they call a toilet tent where you go camping

1084
00:59:54,559 --> 00:59:56,840
and you take this portable toilet ten But he had

1085
00:59:56,840 --> 00:59:58,960
bought one and was using his own sales room, and

1086
00:59:58,960 --> 01:00:01,119
he said, yeah, the reason we sit in these is

1087
01:00:01,159 --> 01:00:03,880
it helps build up the energy in there of what

1088
01:00:04,079 --> 01:00:06,960
we're trying to manifest in a physical sounds. So I

1089
01:00:06,960 --> 01:00:10,840
think they act almost like a portal doorway as such

1090
01:00:10,920 --> 01:00:12,719
by having a small construction there.

1091
01:00:13,519 --> 01:00:16,119
Speaker 4: And wonder I used to use a little cupboard.

1092
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 5: Yes, that sounds very familiar, like Robert Monroe from the

1093
01:00:21,880 --> 01:00:26,480
Monroe Institute used to do something have something like that.

1094
01:00:26,639 --> 01:00:30,679
I think they call it a psychoman something along those lines.

1095
01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:35,199
Speaker 2: Right. Well, again, if we remember back to the story

1096
01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:39,280
of the Doddleston writings and mystery, doddleson mystery where he

1097
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:42,760
got this medieval guy right in through the computer, he

1098
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,559
said a being from twenty one oh nine or from

1099
01:00:45,639 --> 01:00:49,480
the future had come through his chimney, which was acting

1100
01:00:49,639 --> 01:00:52,159
like a similar construction of portal. Is that he sat

1101
01:00:52,239 --> 01:00:56,679
with a green light. So again, these constructions in houses, portals,

1102
01:00:56,960 --> 01:00:59,360
they tend to be in doorways or in chimneys, and

1103
01:00:59,400 --> 01:01:00,599
that's where you can spirits.

1104
01:01:02,119 --> 01:01:07,960
Speaker 5: Fascinating. Well, we we're actually we're out of time. Of course,

1105
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:12,360
we could keep talking about this for this is these

1106
01:01:12,400 --> 01:01:16,199
subjects always get me and it's a fascinating book and

1107
01:01:16,239 --> 01:01:19,800
I highly recommend people pick this up. Just ignore the

1108
01:01:19,880 --> 01:01:23,559
story on page two thirty seven. That guy told that

1109
01:01:23,599 --> 01:01:27,760
story is just such a moronic twit. So I don't

1110
01:01:27,760 --> 01:01:32,840
want to believe that one at all. What's that I mean? Yeah,

1111
01:01:32,960 --> 01:01:37,039
I've gone ego, How do I got an nego? I said,

1112
01:01:37,039 --> 01:01:38,079
he's a moronic twit?

1113
01:01:39,159 --> 01:01:42,760
Speaker 4: Yeah?

1114
01:01:43,039 --> 01:01:46,199
Speaker 5: Well, so that the book is true, Tales of the

1115
01:01:46,239 --> 01:01:50,800
Paranormal Spirits, Ghosts and the Hidden World. Our guess has

1116
01:01:50,840 --> 01:01:54,440
been Neil Ward. Well, Neil, thank you very much. Thank

1117
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:57,039
you for this has been lovely. We haven't talked to

1118
01:01:57,079 --> 01:01:59,880
you in quite a while, so we'll have to have

1119
01:01:59,920 --> 01:02:00,760
you back again.

1120
01:02:01,480 --> 01:02:04,079
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love to come back and thank you. In fact,

1121
01:02:04,119 --> 01:02:06,079
if it wasn't for you, guys, you have a part

1122
01:02:06,159 --> 01:02:07,920
to play in the creation of this book in a

1123
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:11,400
way because with us doing the Paranormal Peep Show, we've

1124
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:14,199
spoken to lots of very interesting people like you have,

1125
01:02:14,880 --> 01:02:17,960
and from those interesting conversations I've been able to draw

1126
01:02:18,119 --> 01:02:20,920
on a lot of their expertise to put in this book.

1127
01:02:20,960 --> 01:02:24,079
So in a sense, without knowing you guys, this book wouldn't.

1128
01:02:23,719 --> 01:02:29,199
Speaker 5: Be around and fantastic again. And I need to dive

1129
01:02:29,320 --> 01:02:32,400
right into it because you really got me hooked now,

1130
01:02:34,559 --> 01:02:38,440
So thank you again, and thank you everyone for tuning

1131
01:02:38,440 --> 01:02:41,639
in to another edition of the Paranormal UK Radio Show.

1132
01:02:41,679 --> 01:02:46,239
The Flagship show here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network

1133
01:02:46,360 --> 01:02:48,119
and Irene. Where can people find us?

1134
01:02:49,039 --> 01:02:51,159
Speaker 4: Everywhere? People just everywhere?

1135
01:02:52,239 --> 01:02:55,199
Speaker 5: Well, thanks again everyone for tuning in. We'll be back

1136
01:02:55,840 --> 01:02:59,599
with a new episode here very soon and we'll talk

1137
01:02:59,639 --> 01:03:02,599
to you and be good humans and have a good one.

1138
01:03:02,760 --> 01:03:25,920
Speaker 1: Bye bye