Speaker 1: What's he throughout the impossible or whatever I make?
Speaker 2: How the improbable most be true?
Speaker 3: And it is not a question of the libero cultism.
What a touch of mysticism is today?
Speaker 1: It is empires as a host of them souls. Hello, Pops,
thy father spirit due for a certain termed work than night.
Speaker 2: Here the old gods aren't dead?
Speaker 4: And what is the true God when he's dead?
Speaker 2: You can't complain?
Speaker 3: People assume the time is a strict progression of cause
to effect, but actually from a nonlinear, non subjective viewpoint,
it's more like a big ball of wibby wobbly thymey
wymy stuff.
Speaker 5: You're listening to Paranormal UK Radio.
Speaker 4: Why everybody? This is an irene An block from the
Paranormal UK Radio Show, the flagship show to the Paranormal
UK Radio Network. And uh, I got that little kit
with me tonight. What what's his name again, Mark Johnson?
Speaker 5: Little Kit?
Speaker 4: Huh, Well, I couldn't remember.
Speaker 5: Well, that's some of the kinder names you've called me
over the years.
Speaker 2: What is.
Speaker 5: I got? I get the general meaning of it.
Speaker 4: It's a pregnant camera apparently.
Speaker 5: Okay, that's a new one for me. I know what
a wanker is what.
Speaker 4: I don't know what that is. What's that.
Speaker 5: Assent?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: Someone who tosses a caper? Yeah they don't Scotland.
Speaker 5: Never mind, So how you doing.
Speaker 4: I'm a bit out of breath today because I think
I've over exerted myself.
Speaker 5: Okay, well we will try to take it easy on
you tonight.
Speaker 4: And I'm not heavy breathing just to turn anyone on.
Speaker 5: You know, I thank you for doing it for me.
Speaker 4: Huh. I don't do anything for.
Speaker 5: You, not not particularly now.
Speaker 4: I'm heavy breathing because I'm finding it a little bit
difficult to breathe at the moment because I got up
earlier on I went to get a cushion from my
back in this chair because my back was aching, and
I had walked from the office to the sitting room
to get it.
Speaker 5: So at least now I can say I can picture
it when you go from one room to the other,
since I've finally been there and I seen it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've seen the old house, isn't it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I need to get my butt back out there
this year.
Speaker 2: Do you know?
Speaker 4: I put up some I forgot the name of it.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 4: I opened the door, looked at the wallpaper and it
came to me William Morris.
Speaker 5: William Morris, okay, cool.
Speaker 4: William Morris. Nice, yeahifty pounds a row.
Speaker 5: Well, I can't wait to see it when I come out.
So why don't we go ahead and we get right
into the show. Oh then shall we.
Speaker 4: Look?
Speaker 5: Well, we're very happy to have tonight's guest who is
a member, a family member here at the Paranormal UK
Radio Network and the co host of the Paranormal Peep
Show and also an author with a new book out,
True Tales of the Paranormal Spirits, Ghosts and the Hidden World.
So please welcome Neil Getty's Word to the program. How
are you doing tonight?
Speaker 2: Neil, Hello, good evening, and hello everybody listening to it.
So I have to create you there, Mark, I'm no
longer get as Ward.
Speaker 5: It's Neil war Neil Ward.
Speaker 4: Okay, I had the book two look at the bottom,
Neil Wards.
Speaker 5: Well, I know, but I'm just so used I know
someth am.
Speaker 2: I I'm so used to it. I remarried and Geedtis
actually came along when I was getting married for the
first time back in the early nineties, and so I
kind of accumulated that name for about thirty five years
and it's only the last few years I've reverted back
to Neil Ward. So how about that, I'm back to
my old original name.
Speaker 5: Well there you go, the okay Neil Ward. So yeah,
your your paranormal peep show with you and Andrew Chaplin,
Ben Emma and Jones. You guys have been going for
quite a while now.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's about two thousand and sixteen, and
I think it was originally me and Andy starting off,
and then we started to interview Ben quite a lot
because he was a very expert in many knowledge what areas,
and then sometimes Andy couldn't always make it because of
his busy tuned in events things that he does, so
Ben would kindly help out. And Ben's kind of like
the odd regular presenter now as a kind of standing
or a guest for anything that we think, oh Ben
would know that answer.
Speaker 5: So yeah, well fantastic. Now, yeah, you're definitely Your show
is one of the highest rated shows on the network.
You guys do one of the longest.
Speaker 4: I'm one of the longest that's been The Paranormal UK
is the longest, isn't it.
Speaker 5: Well, we started paranormally UK back in twenty sixteen. So yeaheah,
one of the very first shows to join us.
Speaker 2: Be the ninth year or I think this year.
Speaker 5: Yeah too.
Speaker 4: You get gold Watch when it's ten years, not by it.
Speaker 5: I got some model paint, you know, I can paint
something gold.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm sure.
Speaker 5: On my income, Yeah, that's about it I can afford
these days. So so Neil, let's talk a bit about
the new book.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 5: It just came out a couple of months ago.
Speaker 2: That's right. Yeah, So it came out on Theturist Publishing
Orchurist Press, which is a UK based publisher, and I
initially submitted to them and completely forgot that I submitted
it to them because I got an email about four
months after I submitted it saying, hey, we would be
interested in this book. And I initially submitted it as
a book called Encounters with Various Ghosts and Spirits, which
was something that i'd begun in the lockdown, and that
kind of started from the fact that I was doing
talks around the country called Encounters with Pharious ghost and
Spirits as a way of negot in a free stall
to sell my artwork. Ironically, it turns out that people
actually kind of liked listening to the talk as well,
and so lots of people after the talk would come
up to me and tell me their personal stories. Some
are really really good and others weren't so good, but
I kind of tended to remember the ones that were
really good. So after all, I kind of thought, well,
I've got to really put these interesting stories down here somewhere.
So and also it'd add to pop purity to the
later talks, because as I do the talk later on,
I've then added some extra information. So I decided, when
Lockdown began, I must put all this down in writing,
and that's where the birth of this book took place.
Speaker 5: Basically fantastic. Well, it's a good sized book. There's many, many,
many stories in here, so maybe we can talk about
a few of them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So any particular favorites you want me to discuss, Well,
I have to.
Speaker 5: Admit that I haven't read the whole thing yet.
Speaker 4: And what about Two Brians and a future time slip?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So that's an interesting tale that was actually
something that was told to me back in about nineteen
eighty eight, eighty nine something like that, and I was
in my first psychic developing circle at the time, and
i'd explain to people that don't know what psychic developing
circle is. Initially, basically, when you have people that want
to do clairvoyance, mediumship, psychic kind of stuff. Not everyone
does it, but a lot of people, normally through a
local spiritualist church, tends to happen that they would join
what's called a psychic developing circle, where you might get
five or six people, maybe even more, and they all
go to someone's house normally and they all sit around.
They don't put their hands on a table like you'd imagine.
Maybe it sounds to be, but they just try and
do exercises to strengthen their and develop their psychic abilities.
Speaker 4: Like imagine a fucking an oak tree.
Speaker 2: Kind of a kind of yeah, you feel a different
kind of energy. So we had this chat there. I
think he worked for British Gas when I knew him,
and I call him Brian Smith simply because I can't
remember his surname it's so long ago. But he did
work for British GATS. I recall that. And when we
all kind of got back together after the summer break
was over, he had said that he had gone away
on holiday and he had come back from some place
like Lanza Rotti or wherever it was, somewhere really nice
and hot, and he said he stayed in a hotel,
but he said he had a really strange experience whilst
he was there. He said that during the night, either
he woke up or he was already awake. I wasn't
really sure that. He said he saw a gentleman walking
across the room of the living room of this hotel,
walk across, and he was in a tuxedo suit. He
walked across and he appeared to go to where the
balcony was, and he fell out over the balcony. And
of course this Brian went over looked over. There was
no one there, because he was like, you know, thirteen
or fourteen floors up in this tour hotel, and he thought,
I've seen some kind of vision. I'm sure of it.
So when it was time for him to check out
the hotel, he said to the receptionist, has anything ever
happened in that room? And they said, no, nothing at all,
nothing at all, And he goes, oh, okay, fair enough.
So he wasn't quite sure what to make of it.
And he'd been home about a week when he suddenly
got a phone call from the hotel that he had
just been staying at, and they said, is that Brian Smith?
And he goes, yeah, and he says, now, can we
just check your address here? And he gave his address.
This is the hotel that you stayed at a week ago.
We've got some confusion here. We've got to send some
luggage back to a Brian Smith. And it looks like
there's been two Brian smith staying in the same hotel room.
And what happened is the other Brian Smith that stayed
after you had stayed there, unfortunately, he fell to his
death from the balcony. And that's what he had seen.
And so they were trying to ring up to check
where they could send the luggage to, and obviously to
Brian Smith's on their list, and they wanted to try
and rule it. And Matt explained what he had seen.
So he was kind of seeing what you know, he
wasn't seeing a ghost or anything like that, but you're
seeing maybe like a vision of premonition or something like that.
But that's one side of it. But the young canny
bit is the fact that he had the same name
as him, which is really spooky.
Speaker 4: That's spooky.
Speaker 5: That's that's wild, especially you know the fact that it
was a future event, so it's it's precognitantive to a
certain extent. But then it makes you wonder again, Yes,
was it a vision of the future event? Was it
a time slip of some kind? Instead of looking at
the back and looking back in time, you're looking forward
in time. And you're right, the name. It's such a
big coincidence.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean if if Brian Smith I knew,
wasn't in a psychic developing circle and wasn't psychic, maybe
he wouldn't have seen that. But because he was psychic,
maybe he was correctly attuned to be at to pit
and perceive that future event coming up. But yeah, it's
the spooky coincidence thing where the name comes through and
it happens to be his and that must have sent
a shiver up his spine when he got that phone calls.
Speaker 4: But it's a pity that he didn't look at the
time on his watch at the time he saw it.
And then I've asked if what time it happened, Can
you imagine it if it was a second same time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean maybe he did, maybe he did. All
I knew was the middle of the night that he
saw it, and I presume the guy coming back was
a little bit drunk. In the later Brian Smith, he
was wearing a tuxedos, which suggested gone out for the evening.
So the vision he had perceived was that evening after
it was a little bit drunk, and presumably he walked
to the balcony just appear over and look out and
just took a tumble. And I presume then the real
Bridsmith that really don't I reenacted that scenario, presumably almost
to the latter.
Speaker 5: Yeah, this goes into certain things that I'm very interested in,
which is just how nonlinear and fluid time really is.
I mean, basically time is not linear, and there's the
theory of all time happening at once, so being able
to be aware or tune into those types of events
because normally we only see the now, and some people
can see in the past, some people can see in
the future. But it's again it's not linear. So there's
a lot of interesting things about that, and that could
be applied to all sorts of different types of so
called paranormal activity.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that kind of connects up to another
story there, which is more of a well known story,
which was the case of the Roman ghosts of York
in the northern area. You know this story are in.
It's kind of a well known British story.
Speaker 4: I didn't what I didn't know them? Neil? Was that
a woman years later? So is that the same thing?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Most people only know the story of Harry Martindale, the
young apprentice plumber that happened to sorry about my cop.
But when you go into it further you find that
there's a little bit of a history with this thing.
So Harry Martindale wasn't necessarily seeing things because other people
were perceiving things too. So basically, to break it down
back to the beginning, was it in about nineteen fifty
three there was this place called, I think it's called
the Chancellor's House or something like that in isn't it
yet still there? And it's a listed building. And what
happened was is that they've got some archaeologists to come
in and they thought there was a Roman road that
ran under it some years before, and somehow when they
were doing excavations, they found remnants out of this Roman
road which led back to the main town of York,
where the Romans did occupy many many centuries ago, and
so they had left it there and they're going to
come back, presumably in the springtime and carry on excavating.
But during that winter time, the Chancellor's House basically engaged
the services of local plumbers to come in and put
some central heat in it and things. So there's a
whole team of plumbers that moved in and they were
drilling holes all day and everything. And this young Harry
Martindowe's he was at the time, he is only about
sixteen or seventeen, was tasked to go down to the
basement and drew holes in this particular wall in the basement.
And so when he came down, he found this trench
that had been dug by the arcologist. But he had
no idea what this trench was. He just thought it
was a really handy place to stick his ladder and
it kind of supported his ladder quite well. So he
stuck his ladder in the trench, he climbed up the
ladder and he spent all day drilling holes. And whilst
he was drilling holes, he kept hearing this sort of
really weird noise, like one particular note being played like
a kind of noise, and he kept thinking, where's that
coming from? And he assumed it was some really bad
record being played on the radio room somewhere, but it
couldn't work out why is it only one note? And
it just kept blowing and blowing and blowing. Eventually it
got louder and louder and louder, and it got to
the point where it got so loud he suddenly noticed
some movement below him, because he was about ten feet
upper ladder, and he saw a Roman soldier materialized coming
through the wall below him on a horse, and he
was so shocked that he just fell off his ladder
and he got frightened, obviously, and he ran into the
corner of the basement trying to hide from them, because
it wasn't just one Roman soldier. It was a whole
load of them coming through, about ten.
Speaker 5: Million on it.
Speaker 2: Well, it wasn't a hole, it wasn't a battalion. Was
about ten of them, and they were all marching through.
And this is the interesting point is that as they
came through, he couldn't see below their knees. But when
they came to the point where this trench had been
dug by the archologists. Their lower legs suddenly appeared, and
they appeared to be walking on that original Roman road. Now,
the interesting observation that Harry Martindale had made of these
soldiers was that they were covered in mud. They seemed
to be splatted in mud. They were wearing green tunics,
not the typical red tunics you might see in films.
They had small daggers, and they had small round shields,
which again in these films you see they have traditional
Romans have a great big, long, oblong or rectangular shield,
but these were small round shields, and so he just
sort of didn't understand it. He knew they were Romans,
and some sort of even saw that they had kind
of unshaven faces, and he could even hear them talk
in a language that he didn't understand, he said, but
he was so frightened. He said he could have reached
out and touched them, but he said, they took no
notice of me. It's like almost he was invisible. Now,
the key thing that I found about is, and no
one's pointed it out apart from me, as far as
I'm aware, is that he had pinpointed the mud on
their clothes and faces as they marched back. Oh, and
I point out that the horn sound that it had
heard earlier, the very last Roman soldiers to come through
the wall was a man blowing a horn. Now, that's
because in those times, when they were coming back to
their garrison or wherever it was they had to go to,
they would blow a horn to get them to open
the gates so that they know that it was their
own legion of Romans coming through the gate sort of thing,
and it's their calling cardiff, you like. So that was
the guy that came through the wall blowing the horn,
and but he noticed all this mud on their faces.
So this would be about November nineteen fifty three, so
it's winter months November nineteen fifty three, and then even
years later, maybe five or six year late. Yeah, I
think it's nineteen fifty seven by this time. Oh, Harry
Martin down. I should add that he ran up the
stairs in fear and met a guy, And this is interesting.
He met a guy who worked there who's perhaps a
caretaker of that time, and he said, oh, it looks
like you've seen them Roman soldiers, my lad sort of thing.
And so someone else had seen them, so he never
went back to that job. He was so scared he
never went back to the job. That was his first
day on the job and he never went back to it.
And his friends at the local pub saying, how are
you getting on that job, Harry, and he said, well,
I don't work there anymore. He said why, and he
didn't want to tell them, so he reluctantly told them,
and that's how the word got out. He wasn't going
to tell anybody. He would have kept it to himself
because he didn't want to look stupid. And that's how
the tailor this got out. His friend started to talk
to people, and I think the papers got interested. But
seven years later there was a lady who looked after
the house and she was like the housekeeper lady, and
she had a couple of small dogs, and she in
nineteen fifty seven, I think it was February again, still
a winter month, was also walking around the building and
she was checking all the doors, making sure they're all
locked up and everything, and her dogs started to bark,
and they were barking at the top of the stairs
that looked down into the same cellar or basement where
Harry had seen these Roman soldiers earlier. And the dogs
are barking, and she could see from the very top
of the stairs Roman soldiers again coming through that wall,
but this time they were doing something slightly different. This
time they were on a load of horses, but all
their Roman soldiers appeared to be asleep on their horses
as they came through, as almost as the horses were
leading them back to the base. And these Roman soldiers
are absolutely whacked out, knackered, as we say in the UK.
And again she observed that they were covered in mud
as well. So my theory is, and Mark sort of
highlighted this simultaneous time idea, and a lot of people
talk about this idea of the stone tape theory, where
supposedly old brick walls or stone buildings and things can
somehow record an occurrence in the walls and it can
get replayed back and people seeing the same action happening
again and again. But in this particular occasion, I don't
think that would apply simply because the lady who saw
the Romans seven years later or whatever, the caretaker lady,
her dogs saw them first of all, but she said
she saw them on horses all asleep coming through, whereas
Harry Martindale had seen his Roman souldiers coming through the
wall with one horse and all the others were on foot,
and they were talking and they were covering them, so
they were doing a slightly different action, but still using
that Roman road that was underneath this building. So my
theory is that if time was simultaneous, Harry Martindale was
in his winter time looking back through time or a
time window maybe to the wintertime of maybe a thousand
years ago, when those Roman soldiers were walking down that
road on their winter's day, maybe in November nineteen fifty three.
And this explains the mud on them because they would
get splatted in mud more likely in the wintertime because
there's rain and there's mud. There's no obviously proper roads
in those days. And then later on when this caretaker
lady she saw them covered in mud, but she saw
them in February nineteen fifty seven, so again it would
be a winter's month, probably wet again, and it would
explain the mud seen on those Roman soldiers that she
was seeing them on the February of their time, if
you like that, a thousand years ago in the past.
So it's like their months are running simultaneously. With our
months or seasons, but a thousand years ago, if you like.
So time is everything call at once and we're literally
peering through like a lens to another time happening simultaneously
with us. That's my perception anyway.
Speaker 4: Yeah, sounds like two different platoons at two different times. Yeah,
that reenacts at the same time every year.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't think you can say that Harry
Martindale was hallucinating because they've been seen by other people
obviously that even when he ran up the stairs in fright,
there was a caretaker in that point that said, it
looks like you've seen those Roman ghosts. So it sounds
like a lot of people had seen these things down
in there in that particular cellar, and it's only perhaps
when they had disturbed the ground, perhaps where they'd start
to dig for a Roman road or something, that they
started to perceive them. So maybe dig in and exposing
these surfaces opens up some sort of time window or
something called psychic psychic portal or something. I don't know,
Well that's what they say, don't know.
Speaker 4: They say that, you know, you start knocking down walls
in your house and everythink you can get the activity
runted up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's where you get the typical kind of apologized
activity that seems to occur and when people seem to
have been doing decorating, particularly in older houses. That's the
case in the Doddalston case as well, which happened in
about nineteen eighty four in the village of Doddalston on
the border between Wales and England. Are you familiar with
that case of talk, the Doddalston case.
Speaker 4: No, I'm not.
Speaker 2: Okay, it is in the book.
Speaker 4: I might be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it might be, but I don't recall it. All right,
I'll tell you it, and you're probably you might have
heard of it. So I first came across his story
in the program called Out of This World, which was
broadcast in the early nineteen nineties. But I think it's
Carol Worderman who hosted the show, and basically this this
guy called Ken Webster. He was a teacher and he
was like, you know, I think he borrowed an early
BBC micro computer and I never owned one, So I
don't exactly not familiar with them, but I've seen enough
of them on the TV programs to kind of get
an idea of what they're on about. And this was
a basically a kind of a basic word processor, I guess,
and he borrowed one, and he taught this girl called
Nicola who was staying at his cottage along with his
girlfriend Debbie, how to operate it. And he would say,
you know, you type on here and you save it
to this dloppy disc and that's it sort of thing.
And so she was practicing on it, and then they
would go off to the pub and then come back
and the computer switched on. They'd start getting messages from someone.
And it turned out that these messages were written in
what they called Early Modern English, not Old English, early
Modern English. And it seemed to be coming from someone
who called himself Lucas, but in fact the name Lucas
was a cover name. His name was, I forget his
name now, Thomas Thomas. And he was apparently writing in
the time of Henry the eighth or thereabouts, or so
he claimed. And again, well, I think it was more
of a sort of again a window through time. On
the surface of it, he was somehow writing what he
called through a strange box of lights. Now in his
Early Modern English to writing was very hard to understand.
So someone who understood that had to kind of translate
what he was saying, and he called it a leam's voiced,
but that actually literally translates as box of lights. And
so from what they could perceive, it looked like this
guy in the Middle Ages had got a computer. Now
that's crazy, but this is what he was describing. But
they said, how do you operate this? And he says, well,
my maid, who is like a four year old girl
that you know, worked with him, and she would tie
to the house and to look like in or whatever
she did, she would be singing apparently, and when she
sang a song, he said he would see the words
form on the strange box of lights. So later on
in the later edition of the book, Ken Webster sort
of wondered if it's something like some AI type of
computer where he didn't physically have to type keys, he
could literally talk into him. And one of the questions
they did say how do you operate? And he says,
I speak my words and it happens.
Speaker 5: Or voice in the text. Yeah, a voice that's not
even AI. That's just very simple voice to text.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean that's more advanced than the BBC micro
computer they were using in nineteen eighty four and this
wasn't connected to the Internet, because one of the accusations was, oh,
you were using some kind of modem and you know,
and he said, well, look, even if it was a
modem somehow that no one even knew what they were
in those and I connected it up somehow, it would
have only been dial up, no broadband. So over a
period of a year and a half to two years
that we were getting these messages, I worked it out
that it would have cost me in that time period,
using BT, which was the only telephone provider at the
time in the UK, British Telecom, it would have cost
me one hundred and eighty seven thousand pounds. He said,
would I do that, you know, with a modem and
waste all that for some joke, you know, a very
expensive joke or whatever. And they got a friend of
theirs at the school who was an English teacher and
he knew a bit about this kind of old language
and he was studying it and he worked out that
whoever was writing this originated from the Gloucestershire area because
of the words that they were using the local dialect
of that area, and the guy had mentioned Bristol and
he mentioned Oxford and places like that. But it took
a bit of a twist this store, because when Kem
was writing back to him and saying about his car
and things like that, he said, this is this is
a wagon without a horse, and he didn't understand what
he meant. He said, But we live in the time
of Queen Elizabeth in the year nineteen eighty four. This Thomas,
who was writing from the medieval times, was saying, oh,
I thought you came from the same time as the
other person that gave me the box of lights gave
me the box of lights from twenty one oh nine,
from the year twenty one oh nine. So, in other words,
someone from our future in the year twenty one oh nine,
so they claimed, was apparently also communicating with this guy
in the past, and this character from the past. Thomas
said that in his chimney a green light shone and
outstepped from the chimney this man with the leams boy
the box of lights and gave it to them as
if he had traveled through a portal or something. And presumably, yeah,
here you go, get on with it. But that's not
the whole case, because there was other things happening like
poltergeist activity around them. He could seem to see them,
and this guy Thomas in the past said that you're
in my house. I live there, and I can see
you in my house in my time. So to him
in his time, they were like ghosts, but they couldn't
see him, which was interesting.
Speaker 5: I think that's probably one of the more fascinating stories
I've ever heard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely in the books, so when you get there,
you can reinitiate yourself with this story. And it comes
from the book, which is well worth a read if
anyone's wanting to find that out. Is called The Vertical
Plane by Ken Webster. Now you might find copies on
Amazon for like one hundred and fifty pounds that Ken
Webster has kindly bought out a cheaper version where it's
a new addition and he's got some additional text in
there talking about updates and things, and that's the one
I bought for like sixteen or seventeen pounds. But it's
called the Vertical Plane. And the reason it's called the
vertical Plane is that the being from twenty one oh
nine described somehow all this was working through something called
the vertical plane, which is very high brow scientific kind
of physics I gather.
Speaker 4: Which hasn't really hasn't happened in airtime yet, but in
twenty one oh nine, this can happen that.
Speaker 5: We know of.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, there's plently of videos on YouTube. You
can find out about it as well if you just
want to dip your toe into the water and kind
of get a fill for the story. But yeah, it's
certainly in a lot of detail in the actual book,
the Vertical Plane.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, I'm fascinating again. I'm stammering because there's
just so much different information on this. But what I
what did I want to say? You know, I want
to say, you know, when you're when we start talking
about time travel, which I do believe is possible, we
just to my knowledge, we haven't figured it out yet.
But then you start thinking about what Stephen, doctor Stephen
Hawking said at one point, you know, of if time
travel was real, we're all the tourists, so you know,
maybe it's in the hands of a very few people.
I mean, I've heard of the project Pegasus that are
the US government supposedly did out in montac years ago,
and you know, so it's it's again time travel is
always everybody one of everybody's favorite types of subjects because
there's so many different stories about it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the thing that Stephen Horgan said, where
all the people? But you know, people are seeing these
ghosts if you want according ghosts all the time. There's
a lady that I know here where I live, and
I was telling her about the Roman Ghosts of York
story and she goes, oh, my husband saw some Roman
ghosts when he came to pick me up from the hospital.
And I said, really, what happened? And she said, well,
I didn't see them, but he was in the car
and my daughter and they were coming to pick me up.
And as they came round the bend, they nearly ran
over them. And there's like six or seven Roman soldiers
crossing the road out in front of them. He put
the brakes on. Act you would you see these people think,
oh my god, I don't want to hit these people.
They seemed oblivious to the vehicle. They just walked straight
across the road, out of one building into another, not
even through a door, just disappeared through the wall. So
maybe we think of them as ghosts, but maybe there
are unwitting time travelers that are not even aware that
they're being spotted.
Speaker 5: True. True, you know, kind of going back on the
stone tape theory, which I know is very popular amongst
a lot of researchers. I personally have always had kind
of a trouble with it. But then I started to think,
because when you start looking at all the megalithic structures,
the standing stones, you know, used in rituals and whatnot,
and they do show that certain stones granite with lots
of quartz in it. Oh my god, my brain has
really checked out tonight limestone and such. You know, they
have those properties that can hang onto energy or focus energy,
so you know, maybe that's possible. But very rarely do
you hear of a case of something that happens like clockwork,
over and over again at the exact same time. I mean,
I edited a story years ago about a hotel in
Colorado where they mentioned that, like three o'clock in the morning,
this ghost of a woman would come out. She'd always
act exactly the same and come out and dressed in
like Victorian clothing and go up and look at this
big clock in the lobby like she was waiting for someone.
And then she walks off and disappears, and they said
it happened almost nightly. And then the investigator that I
knew of who went there looking into it, found out
that not only was there a residual what they call
a residual haunting in regards to stone tape theory, but
then there was still an act of haunting too, that
spirit of that woman was actually still there and would
be seen multiple times along with the other recording, so
to say, so the whole thing is really fascinating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's with the stone tape theory. I mean, I
think that was early people that were trying to kind
of apply some sort of mechanical logic to the situation.
But perhaps they weren't up on the quantum physics, because
no one's really talking about quantum physics when these ideas
were put around. In fact, that the whole stone tap theory,
from what I read, actually emerged from a play that
was produced on the BBC in the nineteen seventies, and
it's written down as a kind of a hypothetical idea
in a paranormal play that was produced in the nineteen seventies.
So most people were getting their stone tape theory from
something like and it's not Doctor Who, but something like
Play for Today is what you know. I remember that
that show Play for Today. It was something like that
where this stone tap theory first emerged.
Speaker 5: There's also locations that seem to have this highly charged
energy about the locations that seemed to attract or somehow
channel paranormal energy and experiences. When I first moved to
New Jersey twenty five years ago, and the first house
I stayed in, I started experiencing activity. Then I found
out some of the houses around me were experiencing activity,
So it got me into the paranormal to begin with.
And then I moved later to another house, and there
was in this area there were other houses having activity,
but it was all based around this small mountain that
was in the community right the hill right behind most
of the houses. And in this area up here there's
lots of granite and underground rivers and all sorts of
things that may or may not have anything to do
with it. But then again I also felt a lot
of it was elemental.
Speaker 2: Too, which I do tool about in the book as well.
The elementals of the Faery Kingdom, the Fake Kingdom at
the very beginning of the book come on let's have
some of that. Neil, Well, yeah, they consider him on.
Speaker 4: My husband saw upstairs the other way.
Speaker 2: Oh, I'd like to hear about that in a minute, then,
so I have.
Speaker 4: Goblin.
Speaker 2: I have told this story a few times on the
Paranorm UK radio network, so if anyone's familiar with it,
apologies you've heard it before. But for those that haven't
heard it, basically, it's concerns a guy who was I
think it was a Glasswegian builder called Steve o'delle. And
I found out about this story from a DVD that
I think you can actually see it on YouTube now
called The Fairy Faith by a Canadian filmmaker called John Walker,
and he interviewed various people that had gone round you know,
various places Canada and Scotland, Island, Wales, place like that
where people believe they'd had these weird fairy encounters. And
this Steve o'delle had he'd gone to I initially thought
was Island, but in fact it was one of the mountains, sorry,
one of the mountains in Scotland that was near the
Fairy four It was actually called the Fairy Hill or something,
and it had just rained and the rain was now
drying out, but the clouds were parting, and he was
looking out of the view and a rainbow was forming
over the valley, and he thought, what a lovely view.
That is absolutely stunning view. And whilst he was looking
at that, he said that there was something by his
peripheral vision, down by his feet, there's some movement. But
he didn't want to take his eyes off the view
that was unfolding before him. Where the clouds are parted,
beautiful rainbow over the valley. What a lovely view that was.
But all the while there was this movement down by
his feet, and it bugged him, so he decided to
look down and see what is that down there? And
he saw this small brown woman with a brown leathery
looking hat, and she had what he described they looked
like an old pair of sheep shears, and she was
cutting like with his sheep shears around the sole of
his shoe. And where his shadow extended out at the
end of his shadow, because it was a long shadow,
I guess by the end of the afternoon, his long
shadow extended out. There was the equivalent of this other lady,
this small brown lady. It's the male equivalent like her husband.
If you like, and this is where it gets freaking.
I always tell people to strap in, because he was
rolling up the guy's shadow like paper, and this Steve Odeale,
the witness, suddenly said, I didn't know what to say
or do. I just looked at them and said I
And he said they looked at each other as if
they thought, oh my god, he can see us. And
then they went push and just vanished. And he said,
I dreaded to think what would have happened to me
had I had not seen them, which I thought was really.
Speaker 4: Well, what do you think would have happened, Neil, Well,
they're taking taking his shadow?
Speaker 2: A shadow, it seems a technical impossibility. It goes against
physics that we understand. But then vanishing also goes against physics.
But it sounds like that they could be taking some
of his energy in some way, like a vampire. Might
you know, get these legends of vampires taking the shadow?
What does that mean? You know? And I thought about
this for a long time, and I thought, Okay, it's
just rained. The sun has now come out, and these
beings had to wait for a shadow to form before
they could steal it. So, in other words, they saw
this guy, maybe they knew it was going to stop
raining soon, and as soon as that shadow formed, they
were going to take it. And it's like they were
shadow steelers. I think I caught him shadow stealers in
the book. And for whatever reason they use shadows, god
only knows. But they call these creatures brownies, I believe.
Speaker 5: Yeah, we have we have something similar to that here
in the States. In North Carolina, they have stories of
the of the brown people and they're all little, small
brown people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, they're They're not really nice. I don't think
that they I mean, we spoke to a guy on
a paranormal peep show a few months ago who called Simon,
who looks at these stories, and he said that a
guy woke up once and one of these brown people
sitting on his bed with a bag. He said that
they looked at him, and he said they they were
looking at He said, he doesn't. He always remembers the description.
They looked at him as if it was like someone
iron up a horse at market. Is a good horse?
You know, they were looking at him as a commodity
rather than as a person.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, that's we're here in the States. I you know,
reach in and grab my pistola.
Speaker 4: And but it's just a bottle of hairlo for me.
Speaker 5: Well, why don't you follow that up, Irene with nobl
in the Goblin?
Speaker 4: No blowing the goblin. Oh, Nobling the Goblin's always lived
in this house as far as we can say. I
used to joke that he lived under the stairs and
used to sit on the hoover and peep through the
crack of the door at people. But he's always been around,
and if something goes missing, it was blamed on nobling
the Goblin because we used to hear strange noises, bangs,
creeks and everything. With the grandchildren here, having a goblin
in the house is a lot better than having a ghost,
because it's more cuddlier or in their ideas head, you know,
it's kind of something they could It's like a fairy
story rather than ghosts. Anyway, So nobbling the Goblin was born.
And I've often felt vibrations under the bed, vibration on
the bed, as if it's got on there, and one
thing or another and anyway everything goes on. It's down
to nobbling the goblin a right, it's all blamed on
noting the goblin. But Brian was in bed the other
day in the other room because I'm not sleeping well,
So he slept in the guest room and he's laying
there and it's got this massive, great window that nearly
touches the floor, and we're mark in that room that
you're staying. And he was facing the window and it's
a it's a bud of these raw time beds, you.
Speaker 5: Know, with the with the marctic gold the headboard which
is like bars y.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And so in fact, he sensed a movement out
the corner of his eyes, so he turned and looked
at the bars at the headboard of the bed. It's
still laying on his side, and there was his face there,
and it was like it was a kind of a
fleshy color, right, but it also had like a pig
nose in the middle of his face and they were
staring at him. Oh yeah, and.
Speaker 5: What about it, he had those little arms on.
Speaker 4: It, little little arms, yeah, little little arms, you know. Anyway,
it was there, and it moved across across behind the bars,
peeping out at him, and then it just vanished. It
just no long got into bed. So it was still
wide awake, right, Yeah.
Speaker 5: Brian said something to it to make it go away.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah he did. He used my my what do
you call it, my your usual.
Speaker 2: Colorful language.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, they're four.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I hope the Goblin could spell.
Speaker 4: So whether that was not blo in the Goblin for
the showing himself for the very first time, I don't know.
But when my son was a child in London, when
he was two years old, he used to see a
little man walk through the wall and he used to
walk through the wall, walk through his bed, stand beside
his bed and then try to get on the bed
with him. And he was a very tiny little man
and he said he was green green. Interesting, yeah, and
that was he was what spoke, Yeah, it was. It
was no older than two m he come. He used
to come into us every night and try to get
into air bed to sleep with his and dad and
we couldn't figure out why. And then then we got
the story out of him at a little.
Speaker 2: Man, wow, huh.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he will even now he's in his faulties, he
will say he saw that.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 5: Well I remember when I came over a year and
a half ago and I think nobl and the Goblin
came up behind me while I was brushing my teeth
in the bathroom and poked me twice in my butt.
Speaker 4: You're not the only You're not the only person that's
had that done.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it felt like a finger pop poop in my
butt cheek and turn around, nothing's there and gone, okay.
I read about it later and several people.
Speaker 4: But you also got some sensation in the bedroom, didn't
you something being there?
Speaker 5: Well, in that bedroom that Brian slept in. Yeah, it's
where I stayed, and there was the one night I
was lying there and I usually where an eye shade
to cut off light, so haven't I got into a
while ago and I didn't see anything, but I felt
a very strong presence move up along the side of
the bed, standing right next to me. And I don't
know why I react like this. I've had experiences like
this in my life and I'd never look. I just like, okay,
you're there, let me alone. I'm trying to go to sleep,
and then it goes away. So normally you would think
people would be jumping up and like, oh my god,
what did I just feel happened? I had sleep paralysis
many many years ago that that would happen, and instead
of jumping up after it went away, I'd go right
back to sleep. It's weird how the mind and body react.
Speaker 2: Yeah, with the bed and the balls on the headboard bed,
it was that made a volley, and of interest.
Speaker 4: My one is in my bedroom, but this is a
cheaper version of my bed.
Speaker 2: Right. It's just.
Speaker 4: It's a metal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Fairies and beans like that don't like iron. It's
like it's like a garlic to a vampire type of thing.
So that's why I was asking about it.
Speaker 4: Interesting, mine's got brass on it as well, right, So
this one is more it's a thinner metal.
Speaker 2: You could try putting some bits of iron nails or
anything like that around the area and that might stop it.
I don't know, but it might be worth a try.
So you're talking about the small beans around the bed
reminded me of the story that I put in the book,
which a lady had come up to me. I'd gone
to do a talk at the Probe conference a few
years ago, and I spoke about the creatures cutting away
the shadow around the guy's foot, which led me then
to talk about this is kind of too two parts
of this story. So I'll tell you the first story,
and then i'll tell you about these creatures that this
lady told me about. So what got her to come
and talk to me was I then told a story
about a guy that I was on a plane with
going to Spain some years ago, and there's a lot
of Spaniards heading back to Malagar in Spain, and this
guy got on. He looked Spanish, but it turned out
he was from Iran and he sat next to him.
He goes, I'm Iranian, but I prefer it to call
it Persha, but you would know it as Iran. And
I said, oh, what are you going for a holiday.
Then he goes, no, no, I'm going out to He says,
I live in London, but I'm going out to check
on the houses that I've designed out there, because I'm
an architect now. And so he said what do you do?
And I said, well, I do art work, fairy drawings
and that kind of stuff. And I told him the
weird sort of tales aren't tenure now, and that got
him to open up a little bit and he said, well,
when I was a younger man, I was out in
Iran and I was conscripted into the army and I
had to do like the equivalent of national service out there,
and I put this to be about the late seventies,
something like that, that this occurred him and he was
walking around at night with his army buddy. There were
two of them go around there, and he said a
sandstorm had kicked up, and so they decided to go
and seek shelter in this mosque. And what is traditional
in his mosque, You have to take your shoes and
your socks off. So they took their shoes and their
socks off, went into the mosque. And this guy always
called Hussein. He told his friend to go and lay
down and take a sleep, and he would keep an
eye out. Hussein would keep an eye out, and he'd
sit next to him with his rifle, and he would
keep an eye out for any trouble. There's no one
else in there. It's all very quiet. The storm was
outside raging, it's all very quiet inside. But no matter
how hard Hussein tried to stay awake, he kept nodding
off to sleep. And he nodded off three times and
woke up. But on the third time he woke up,
he found that he wasn't alone. There was a lady
crouched down looking at his feet, his bare feet, and
next to the lady was a girl who's maybe eleven
twelve years of age, looking at his friend's feet, who
was laying next to him. Now at this point, they
hadn't noticed that Hussein was awake, and Hussein decided to
try and wake his friend up and was sleeping by
pressing his elbow into his chest. And he said, I
kept pressing and pressing into his chest. Now matter how
hard I pressed into his chest, he wasn't going to
wake up. So he said, I decided that I didn't
like this situation. He said, he started to wrap the
strap of the gun around his arm so it wouldn't
swing as he ran away, which I thought was a
bit funny, because you're the guy with a gun. Why
are you going to do the running. But that's what
he said he's going to do. And he said it
must have been this movement of him moving the strap
around his arm that alerted this lady. It must have
caught her right, and he said she suddenly looked up
from looking at his feet and stared at him in
the eyes. And he said, as soon as I made
eye contact with her, I just knew something inside of me.
I just knew that she wasn't from this world. And
he said at that point she stood up, and the
young girl with her stood up at the same time.
He said, they turned and walked away. And this is
a bit that really got me. Said as they walked away,
he said they he noticed they both had cloven hoofed feet,
like cattle, and they just faded through the wall of
the mosque and vanished. And when he told me that,
a shivel literally went up and down my spine, and
I thought, God, I've got to use that story somewhere.
So I got his permission to use it in a
few writings, and I put it in this book. So
that story I told at the probe conference, and afterwards
this lady came up to me and she says, I'm
so glad you told that story of those people with
the cloven hoofed feet. I'm not going mad then, and
I said, why, what's happened to you? And she said
that this is up in the Lancashire area north, you know,
near Blackpool. And she said that she was in hospital there.
She had given birth. Unfortunately to the stillborn baby. It
died and they put in this room by herself to
try and come to terms with it. They put the
poor dead baby in a cot next to her, and
she said that she sat on the end of the
bed and thinking, how earth am I going to get
the strength to carry on? How am I going to
look after my husband and the rest of my family
when I've just had this happen to me? I, you know,
she couldn't carry on, and she had her head in
her hands, and she said, suddenly the door opened and
in came into the room four to five small centaur beings.
So centaurs have traditionally beastlike bodies, if you think like
a lower half of a horse, something like that, but
with a human body as the top part. So think
of sagittari as the archer on star signs. But she
said they weren't pretty. They were really ugly, these faces.
And she said two of them went over and peered
into the cop where this dead baby was and started
to look at the dead baby and the and started
to look up at her. But she said, do you know,
she says, as they looked at me, my whole mood
changed and lifted. It's almost as if somehow they'd done
sort of some sort of healing spell or something, because
I suddenly felt really strong and emotionally able to deal
with it. But she goes, I don't remember what happened
to them. They were suddenly not there anymore. So she
because I thought, I've got to tell something because I'm
going crazy. So she obviously did you know, remember this incident?
And thought, well, was it the drugs I was on?
Maybe I wasn't on any drugs. I don't know, but
she kept changing herself thinking she was going crazy. And
once I told her that story, it kind of like
it kind of underlined her own experience. It was some
validity to it.
Speaker 5: Yeah. No, just to clarify, were they like centaurs like
four legged or like sailors two legged?
Speaker 2: No, these were these were centaurs. She called them centaur beans.
But they still had cloven hoofed feet or horseshoes or
something like that. But they were half man, half creatures.
And what got me interested in the first story where
he's in the mosque and he sees the cloven hoofed people,
is that you do hear these legends all the time
of these people that have cloven hoofed feet, but they
have a human top half, and you're thinking, well, that's
just Ray, Harry Howse and movies or something. But there
seems to be a reality out there maybe intersects with
us in some way, that this is where these beings
are getting seen, and these legends and maybe come from
those sightings.
Speaker 4: The legends of the clovenin from forms and everything go
back years, don't they hundred years?
Speaker 2: That's right? I mean the famous pan, isn't it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a famous story. Well, I don't know how famous.
I saw it on a program once about in Ireland
a couple centuries ago. Down a stormy night, people are
playing poker in a tavern and this guy walks in
and sits down and starts playing poker with him. And
then at one point one guy drops some cards, so
he reaches down to pick up the cards and saw
that the stranger had cloven feet.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 5: And and then the guy just vanished right there in
front of them. Oh yeah, well there's Do you remember
J C. Johnson?
Speaker 4: Yes, I remember, and Jesse stole them.
Speaker 5: He was a researcher out in looking out in like
the Arizona Southwest area of the United States, and he
was investigating all sorts of kinds of activity that happens there,
which is very mystical, but he claims to have seen
on a few occasions centaurs out in the desert.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's interesting. You know.
Speaker 5: At the time, I like kind of rolled my eyes
a little bit and think, you know, something before he
saw it. But it makes much more sense now because
other people have seen this too.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean I came across a story and it
wasn't validated as such, but I saw a reference to it,
and I think it's out there in a book somewhere
where this person has seen a centaur at the base
of the great big monument, the Archway, the Archway that
is the gateway to the west in I get where
it is now in the states.
Speaker 5: Saint Louis, Missouri.
Speaker 2: That's it in Saint Louis. That someone had seen a
centaur around the base there, and I thought all less interesting.
Now it kind of doesn't surprise me in a way
because it is a base of an archway, and a
lot of people have cited beings like ghosts, spirits, whatever
you want to call them, and they always seem to
be standing in doorways. I mean, I spoke to a
lady the other day and she said that she saw
her mother not long after she passed away standing in
the doorway of her bedrooms smiling hour. But they always
seem to be standing always. And in my book, I'd
go into a theory where in physical siances where spirits materialize,
a medium who's known as a physical medium, they're able
to produce physical spirits. But typically the norm for that
would be that they would go into what they call
a cabinet, which is something like a small kind of
think of a small wardrobe with maybe a curtain in
the front, and the medium would sit in there and
go to sleep or into a trance. But within the
formation of this cabinet, a spirit would be able to
use the borders of this cabinet to maybe manipulate its
energy and bounce it around to become then a solid being.
But I did ask this of a medium once who
was doing a similar thing today. But he was using
what they call a toilet tent where you go camping
and you take this portable toilet ten But he had
bought one and was using his own sales room, and
he said, yeah, the reason we sit in these is
it helps build up the energy in there of what
we're trying to manifest in a physical sounds. So I
think they act almost like a portal doorway as such
by having a small construction there.
Speaker 4: And wonder I used to use a little cupboard.
Speaker 5: Yes, that sounds very familiar, like Robert Monroe from the
Monroe Institute used to do something have something like that.
I think they call it a psychoman something along those lines.
Speaker 2: Right. Well, again, if we remember back to the story
of the Doddleston writings and mystery, doddleson mystery where he
got this medieval guy right in through the computer, he
said a being from twenty one oh nine or from
the future had come through his chimney, which was acting
like a similar construction of portal. Is that he sat
with a green light. So again, these constructions in houses, portals,
they tend to be in doorways or in chimneys, and
that's where you can spirits.
Speaker 5: Fascinating. Well, we we're actually we're out of time. Of course,
we could keep talking about this for this is these
subjects always get me and it's a fascinating book and
I highly recommend people pick this up. Just ignore the
story on page two thirty seven. That guy told that
story is just such a moronic twit. So I don't
want to believe that one at all. What's that I mean? Yeah,
I've gone ego, How do I got an nego? I said,
he's a moronic twit?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Well, so that the book is true, Tales of the
Paranormal Spirits, Ghosts and the Hidden World. Our guess has
been Neil Ward. Well, Neil, thank you very much. Thank
you for this has been lovely. We haven't talked to
you in quite a while, so we'll have to have
you back again.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd love to come back and thank you. In fact,
if it wasn't for you, guys, you have a part
to play in the creation of this book in a
way because with us doing the Paranormal Peep Show, we've
spoken to lots of very interesting people like you have,
and from those interesting conversations I've been able to draw
on a lot of their expertise to put in this book.
So in a sense, without knowing you guys, this book wouldn't.
Speaker 5: Be around and fantastic again. And I need to dive
right into it because you really got me hooked now,
So thank you again, and thank you everyone for tuning
in to another edition of the Paranormal UK Radio Show.
The Flagship show here on the Paranormal UK Radio Network
and Irene. Where can people find us?
Speaker 4: Everywhere? People just everywhere?
Speaker 5: Well, thanks again everyone for tuning in. We'll be back
with a new episode here very soon and we'll talk
to you and be good humans and have a good one.
Speaker 1: Bye bye