Speaker 1: Hey, folks, welcome to a very special episode of the
Speaker 1: Projection Booth. No easy way of saying this, but I
Speaker 1: recently learned of the passing recently of Stuart Feedback Andrews.
Speaker 1: He was our co host on the Adventures of Ford
Speaker 1: fairlay in episode, but more than that, he was a
Speaker 1: friend of mine. I don't remember how or where I
Speaker 1: met Stuart. Despite what some listeners may think, my memory,
Speaker 1: especially about myself, is rubbish. I'm sure I share a
Speaker 1: mutual friend who must have introduced us, as I have
Speaker 1: luckily a lot of friends up in Toronto. When I
Speaker 1: met Stuart, he was still the host of the Roomboorg
Speaker 1: radio podcast. I know we had talked via email before
Speaker 1: we met him person. I'm pretty sure I met him
Speaker 1: in probably December twenty ten for a weekend where I
Speaker 1: was coming up to Toronto promoting my book and possibly
Speaker 1: Funky at Cashier's to Sinemark Collection. And for anyone who
Speaker 1: gets pissed off that I call it my book, it's
Speaker 1: not just me. There are a lot of other authors
Speaker 1: who wrote for that book as well, but I was
Speaker 1: the one that kind of brought it all together. I
Speaker 1: was the founder of the zine so That's why I
Speaker 1: usually call it my book, so gees if you get
Speaker 1: bent out of shape that there are actually other writers there,
Speaker 1: including my friends Scauz Sizzek, who wrote about John Pays's
Speaker 1: Crime Wave and in Toronto, I was there for a
Speaker 1: screening of Pays's Crime Wave at the Toronto Underground Cinema
Speaker 1: and if I remember right, we had a dinner setup
Speaker 1: before the screening, including mister Pays. That was great seeing
Speaker 1: him and I can't remember if I was actually late
Speaker 1: or threatened to be late because of Stuart, because Stuart
Speaker 1: would talk, and as evidenced by this show, so can I.
Speaker 1: We got together that day in December twenty ten at
Speaker 1: the Room Org Radio studio. I was kind of creepy
Speaker 1: in there. There was no one around. It was a Saturday.
Speaker 1: He showed me around a little bit and then we
Speaker 1: sat down to talk about the book and mostly about
Speaker 1: Quentin Tarantina. And we talked for gosh, at least four hours,
Speaker 1: if not more, and it was.
Speaker 2: So easy to talk with him.
Speaker 1: Now that episode of Rumork Radio never came out. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was really trying to promote the book. Thought an
Speaker 1: episode on Rumork Radio would really be a good shot
Speaker 1: in the arm. But yeah, it never happened, and me
Speaker 1: like a dope, I went back again to the studio
Speaker 1: on another trip to Toronto. For some reason, I keep
Speaker 1: thinking it's my trip in twenty seventeen when I went
Speaker 1: up there to see Morris Brestinsky and a couple other
Speaker 1: podcast friends. But I don't think it was. I think
Speaker 1: it must have been earlier. Whenever it was. I sat
Speaker 1: down with Stewart again for at least another five hours,
Speaker 1: where we discussed, of all things Colombo. I was kind
Speaker 1: of the precursor of The Shabby Detective. We went through
Speaker 1: all of the NBC years, episode by episode, just kind
Speaker 1: of hashing out how much at least I love Colombo,
Speaker 1: and I'm pretty sure he did as well, Otherwise he
Speaker 1: probably wouldn't have stuck in for gosh, probably another five
Speaker 1: hours of us talking and again never aired. I'm not
Speaker 1: sure if they even got edited though. Speaking of editing,
Speaker 1: Stuart was very inspirational when it came to editing. I
Speaker 1: loved how in his room work podcasts he would do
Speaker 1: dropping sound clips, trailers, songs as the episode went along,
Speaker 1: just kind of bringing the references to life or kind
Speaker 1: of enhancing things. So I always dog that well. I
Speaker 1: will admit Stuart was a little bit of an odd bird.
Speaker 1: I remember him complaining that Roomwork was kicking him off
Speaker 1: the air, that they were taking all the episodes down.
Speaker 1: Gave me a lot of details about that, and I
Speaker 1: don't really want to get into too much here, but
Speaker 1: I don't really want to make any new enemies at
Speaker 1: the moment. And I don't know why he didn't have
Speaker 1: backups of all of his shows and just publish them
Speaker 1: someplace else, or at least had them available to download someplace,
Speaker 1: or maybe he just didn't care. It was kind of
Speaker 1: a kind of a weird pattern of almost self sabotage
Speaker 1: with him. And then he had done a radio show
Speaker 1: on CKLN FM eighty eight point one, and I remember
Speaker 1: even going to the studio there with him, either that
Speaker 1: first time I met him or another time. And that
Speaker 1: show that he did their Cinephobia Radio. He turned that
Speaker 1: into a podcast as well. And I'll admit that I
Speaker 1: sometimes have a hard time keeping Cinophobia and Romorg Radio
Speaker 1: straight in my head, as Stuart was such a strong
Speaker 1: personality and they just both kind of seemed like one show.
Speaker 1: He had a real interesting use of language. He already
Speaker 1: had his English accent. I think it was liverpudleyan Scouse accent,
Speaker 1: but he emphasized those melodic tones in his voice, with
Speaker 1: his vocabulary that brought in bits of like nadsat, like
Speaker 1: slushy well little Drew Gee's and rather than Choedes, he
Speaker 1: would say Chones and would double down on this with insinophobia,
Speaker 1: with things like the Attack of the Chones episode. I
Speaker 1: was enjoyed listening to his shows, despite some of the
Speaker 1: dramatics and behind the scenes drama that would bleed through
Speaker 1: the episodes. I remember it took a long time before
Speaker 1: I could tolerate Stuart's co host, Lance Chance Lance, though
Speaker 1: I ended up meeting Lance in person once and he
Speaker 1: was actually really decent, very funny, and very nice to me,
Speaker 1: and I kind of wonder if he was just supposed
Speaker 1: to be super obnoxious on the air, or if that
Speaker 1: is just the personality that came out once he was
Speaker 1: in front of a microphone. I met Lance at one
Speaker 1: of the two Fan Expo events that I was invited to,
Speaker 1: and that's where I moderated Q and A sessions one
Speaker 1: year for Orlando Jones and Danny Trejo two separate sessions,
Speaker 1: and the next for Christopher Lloyd and who do I
Speaker 1: have to thank for that gig? Mister Stuart Feedback Andrews.
Speaker 1: He really looked out for me. He especially did in
Speaker 1: twenty thirteen because he was responsible for connecting me with
Speaker 1: the person who figured out that Leanne Spider Baby McDougall
Speaker 1: was a serial plagiarist just like her then boyfriend Quentin Tarantino.
Speaker 1: Stuart gave me just enough information and forwarded me enough
Speaker 1: emails for me to do the piecing together of the
Speaker 1: evidence that Paul And is it okay that I finally
Speaker 1: say that was Paul Krup who did all the hard
Speaker 1: work before that. Anyway, it's been twelve years. I also
Speaker 1: wanted to give credit to Paul, and I felt bad
Speaker 1: being something of the public face of the unmasking of
Speaker 1: that scandal, But I was far enough away from it
Speaker 1: and had my reputation, I suppose of being a little
Speaker 1: bit of a burr under Tarantino's butt to maintain. So
Speaker 1: it was kind of perfect for me to be the
Speaker 1: mouthpiece for all of that. Back in twenty fifteen, Stuart
Speaker 1: latched onto a story about Tarantino's buddy Eli Roth. Twenty
Speaker 1: fifteen was an interesting year. For Roth as he had
Speaker 1: his cannibal movie Green Inferno, that had a US theatrical
Speaker 1: run that started September twenty fifth, twenty fifteen, though it
Speaker 1: had played at the Toronto Film Festival back in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 1: And he also had the remake of Death Game called
Speaker 1: Knock Knock coming out October ninth, twenty fifteen, like two
Speaker 1: weeks later, and I remember being reached out to and
Speaker 1: asked if I could please give Knock Knock ten stars
Speaker 1: on I am and what I felt like was a
Speaker 1: very weird marketing effort. And I know I was definitely
Speaker 1: going to the IMDb page for Knock Knock as I
Speaker 1: was trying to correct the credits as there were no
Speaker 1: mentions of it being a remake or based on a
Speaker 1: previous script. Though if you want to find out more
Speaker 1: about that, I would ask that people listen to our
Speaker 1: two Death Game episodes and find out more about the
Speaker 1: writers and the antecedents for Death Game as well. Anyway,
Speaker 1: there was another marketing plan going on for Green Inferno
Speaker 1: that was a fakepetition on change dot org. Anybody remember
Speaker 1: that that was trying to ban the film, and Stewart
Speaker 1: took to the air along with journalist Dave Pace to
Speaker 1: debunk the petition and take the piss out of the
Speaker 1: already pissed off people who were outraged by the petition,
Speaker 1: not knowing of its spurious origin. You can read a
Speaker 1: lot about that over on I Think Bleeding Cool. I'll
Speaker 1: definitely have a link.
Speaker 3: In the show notes.
Speaker 1: So while I was listening to the two parter that
Speaker 1: Stuart put out of Senophobia Radio called jungle Gate, and
Speaker 1: I also thought there was going to be more to it.
Speaker 1: I also was waiting for a third part. Anyway, while
Speaker 1: I was listening to it, I just got this bug
Speaker 1: to make it a little bit better than what Stuart
Speaker 1: had put out. Those breaks that I was talking about before,
Speaker 1: he would put in long, long breaks in there, just
Speaker 1: longer and longer. And I can't remember if it was
Speaker 1: Howard Zenn or Marsha McCluin, just were talking forever and regardless.
Speaker 1: When I listened to that two parter, I listened to
Speaker 1: it a second time in audacity and just started chopping.
Speaker 1: I made the two episodes into one, and I think
Speaker 1: I made the two episodes into one stronger episode. I
Speaker 1: don't know what came over me, but I shared that
Speaker 1: with Stuart, and he rightly bit my head off. He
Speaker 1: didn't like what I had done at all. Though I
Speaker 1: still stand by my cut. I still think it's better
Speaker 1: than what ended up coming out. Going back to the
Speaker 1: idea of Stuart's digital footprint as a worker, there are
Speaker 1: fifty episodes of the room Board Radio podcast from twenty
Speaker 1: eleven to twenty twelve listed on Apple Podcasts, but none
Speaker 1: of the files seemed to be there. His Cinephobia episodes, meanwhile,
Speaker 1: are also in really short supply. I did my best
Speaker 1: to try and even find out how many episodes he did.
Speaker 1: I think it was around thirty five, but this was
Speaker 1: over a long period of time, maybe as long as
Speaker 1: from twenty seven to twenty twenty five, but I don't
Speaker 1: think so. I don't think he was doing podcasts for
Speaker 1: the last few years, and I'll tell you why in
Speaker 1: a few minutes here. Yeah, it's very clear, and just
Speaker 1: a handful of those survived once he got into the
Speaker 1: Velvet Buzzsaw series that he did. I think those were
Speaker 1: the last five podcasts that he did. I thought it
Speaker 1: was about the Jake Jillenhall movie, and I was just like,
Speaker 1: why are you dedicating five episodes to this Netflix film,
Speaker 1: but it ended up being something else entirely. Yeah, but regardless,
Speaker 1: if people have collected those episodes or just have downloaded
Speaker 1: individual episodes that they can send, please just send them
Speaker 1: along to me. I want to start an archive. I'm
Speaker 1: through all of the ones that I could find in
Speaker 1: a drop box. I'll share that link as well. It's
Speaker 1: just I'm afraid that they're going to disappear too. All
Speaker 1: the removal of episodes and recordings and things never released.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it felt like he was being sabotaged by room Moorg,
Speaker 1: but then other times it felt like self sabotage too.
Speaker 1: Stude had a real parent streak and it really came
Speaker 1: out in spades after the election of Donald Trump, but
Speaker 1: really moreover after the start of the COVID pandemic back
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. Though he wouldn't call it COVID, he
Speaker 1: would say that COVID is the disease. It's actually the
Speaker 1: syrus blah blah blah blah blah pandemic. He felt that
Speaker 1: was very important to tell me. We talked a few
Speaker 1: times after the pandemic started. I was still friends with
Speaker 1: him on Facebook up until at least December of twenty
Speaker 1: twenty two. I really had to put all of his
Speaker 1: posts on ignore, and yeah, it was kind of sad
Speaker 1: because I could just see him getting more and more unhinged.
Speaker 1: I'm sure we all have friends that or acquaintances at
Speaker 1: least that this has happened to. It's very, very sad
Speaker 1: for me.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 1: The worst part is Stuart always had to be right
Speaker 1: about everything that he thought, and that everyone was entire
Speaker 1: to his opinion. I don't know where he fell off
Speaker 1: or even if he would identify as an anti vaxer.
Speaker 1: His Twitter feed, though, is filled with things like calling
Speaker 1: Anthony Fauci a modern Mangola, throwing around terms like Maderna Gate.
Speaker 1: He did like the Gate stuff when it came to Scandal's.
Speaker 5: Right wing media and influencers had been blaming the scale
Speaker 5: of wildfire destruction in Los Angeles on diversity, equity and
Speaker 5: inclusion efforts.
Speaker 1: Suffice to say, I just kind of had to cut
Speaker 1: him out of my life, but I doubt he really
Speaker 1: even noticed or cared. Frankly, the last time I heard
Speaker 1: from Stuart was December twenty twenty two, when he told
Speaker 1: me this quote. I live in Niagara, I work in
Speaker 1: medical cannabis and manage the building where I live twelve units.
Speaker 1: I also produced the movie Psycho Gorman, which requires constant attention.
Speaker 1: And I know I've threatened this before, but I am
Speaker 1: resurrecting my old podcast, going through some of this stuff
Speaker 1: as part of the process. But this time it's not
Speaker 1: going to be nice and cuddly like it was before.
Speaker 1: This time it will be weaponized. And then he concluded
Speaker 1: our conversation with this, I'm retiring at seventy seven and
Speaker 1: will completely remove myself from all public platforms. I will
Speaker 1: die at eighty three. That's the plan. Well, unfortunately the
Speaker 1: plan didn't work out. Stuart passed away at fifty seven
Speaker 1: years old on November twenty third, twenty twenty five. I
Speaker 1: don't know how he passed, but I hope it was peaceful.
Speaker 1: It was only after hearing that he went that I
Speaker 1: learned that Stuart Andrews isn't actually his real name. Stuart
Speaker 1: went under that Noaum de guerre, as well as having
Speaker 1: another Facebook profile under the name Daniel Stuart Morton, but
Speaker 1: the listing for his cremation has him as Andrew Stuart Morton.
Speaker 1: Whatever his name, he made quite an impact on my
Speaker 1: life and I appreciate all he did for me as
Speaker 1: well as the horror community. He sure did love to
Speaker 1: stir up shit, and I so like that about him.
Speaker 1: He is definitely going to be missed, so as a
Speaker 1: tribute of sorts and something that would make him just
Speaker 1: incredibly pissed off as well. I'm actually going to share
Speaker 1: that episode that I put together of his two part
Speaker 1: jungle Gate so that people can hear him at his best.
Speaker 1: I would say, please enjoy, but instead I'll take a
Speaker 1: page out of his book and say, slushy well, Little
Speaker 1: Drew Geese, slushy well.
Speaker 6: The following feature is one of the most violent films
Speaker 6: ever made. There are at least two dozen scenes of
Speaker 6: barbaric torture and sadistic cruelty graphically shown.
Speaker 3: If the presentation of disgusting.
Speaker 6: And impulsive subject matter upsets you, please do not view
Speaker 6: this film.
Speaker 7: Beautiful Dream.
Speaker 3: Peru is dangerous. We can't just go invade a country
Speaker 3: because they're doing something that we think is immoral.
Speaker 8: I know, I just think I should be doing something
Speaker 8: about the rainforest star.
Speaker 7: Jobs.
Speaker 9: It's time to make a difference.
Speaker 10: So why, yeah, why are they doing this?
Speaker 2: What are they going to do to us?
Speaker 3: Nice?
Speaker 2: To get out of here. You know what this is,
Speaker 2: you know what they're doing to us.
Speaker 9: This is Stuart Feedback Andrews and you're listening to Sinophobia Radio.
Speaker 9: I'm joined via Skype by ex horror journalist Dave Pace
Speaker 9: from the now retired genre media focus blog La Politique Psychotronique,
Speaker 9: and we're here with a special report on a developing
Speaker 9: situation in the horror world that will forever be known
Speaker 9: as Jungle Gates. So a couple of disclaimers before we begin.
Speaker 9: First of all, neither of us have seen the film
Speaker 9: The Green Inferno, so we're not talking about the film specifically.
Speaker 9: The content of the film The Green Inferno, while not irrelevant,
Speaker 9: is secondary to what we're talking about here. We're talking
Speaker 9: about the marketing behind the film, the sort of characters
Speaker 9: the film is being marketed to, and the disturbing undercurrents
Speaker 9: within the cultural shitegeist that are being kicked up and
Speaker 9: amplified by the publicity campaign. And secondly, yes, I realized
Speaker 9: that talking about the film probably speaks to the effectiveness
Speaker 9: of marketing campaign if the only point of it is
Speaker 9: to get people talking. But that doesn't bother me because
Speaker 9: I'm not advocating for any sort of boycott of the film.
Speaker 9: I don't care if people see the film. In fact,
Speaker 9: i'd rather them see it and bring to it some
Speaker 9: of the critical perspectives that we're going to hopefully provide today.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean, you know, obviously we're not for banning
Speaker 3: this film. You know, obviously we're not getting behind that.
Speaker 9: That's ridiculous, right, And any petition that's out there trying
Speaker 9: to ban the film, we don't support that either, not
Speaker 9: at all. So don't worry, folks. We're not social justice warriors, right,
Speaker 9: whatever that is.
Speaker 3: I'm a local justice barbarian.
Speaker 9: So first, before we go, I want to get your
Speaker 9: assessment of Eli Roth as a filmmaker. How do you
Speaker 9: rate him as a director.
Speaker 3: I think he's a guy with a really great horror
Speaker 3: film in him. I just don't think he's made it yet,
Speaker 3: and he may not, right, but I think I think
Speaker 3: it's possible he's enough of an efficionado of the genre
Speaker 3: to be able to make something great. I think I
Speaker 3: think he understands and respects it enough to know how
Speaker 3: to make something great. It's just a question of I
Speaker 3: don't think he's actually done that yet. He hasn't made
Speaker 3: anything that has changed everything that came after.
Speaker 9: And what do you think of the masterpiece? If only
Speaker 9: in his own mind that hostile was.
Speaker 3: Ah, you know, hostile. It's funny because I like the
Speaker 3: premise of Hostile a lot in a way, like I
Speaker 3: like the idea that you have these you know, these guys,
Speaker 3: these like douchebag guys who are going to go and
Speaker 3: sort of exploit this, you know, Eastern European country for
Speaker 3: their own pleasures and you know, to kind of go
Speaker 3: there for some some illicit fun and then sort of
Speaker 3: get roped into even more illicit fun than they can
Speaker 3: they could even imagine being exploited themselves. I think there's
Speaker 3: an interesting political message there. I just don't think it
Speaker 3: was well particularly well executed. It didn't hit the nerves
Speaker 3: the way it should have. I think it was weak
Speaker 3: at times. I think it was like too just too
Speaker 3: out front with the torture porn stuff, not enough for
Speaker 3: sort of ratcheting up that tension and making it scary,
Speaker 3: not just drills through the knee cats and you know
Speaker 3: all that business.
Speaker 12: Right.
Speaker 13: I was turning down another movie and I said, Quentin,
Speaker 13: you know, I don't know if it wasn't a mistake
Speaker 13: to turn down the studio film because I have this
Speaker 13: other idea that I really kind of want to do,
Speaker 13: and I told the idea for Hostile, and he's like, Eli,
Speaker 13: that is the best idea I've heard for horror movie.
Speaker 3: You've got to do that.
Speaker 9: The weird thing for me with him is that each
Speaker 9: one of the films that he's made so far I
Speaker 9: felt was better than the previous one. First of all,
Speaker 9: I hated Cavin Fever. I walked out of Hostile, largely
Speaker 9: because I'm a fairly temperamental film viewer and a couple
Speaker 9: of things will annoy me and that will be enough
Speaker 9: to just sort of ruin the whole film for me.
Speaker 9: It's a critical failing, but I recognize it. So I
Speaker 9: went back eventually and did give it its stay in court.
Speaker 9: And ironically, the stuff that I liked most about Hostele
Speaker 9: was the stuff I missed, namely how it almost switches
Speaker 9: genres and becomes like a hitchcock man wrongly accused suspense
Speaker 9: film at the end of something. Hostile, too, I thought
Speaker 9: was quite good. I enjoyed it a lot, and I
Speaker 9: think one of the great things that it benefited from.
Speaker 9: First of all, it was conceptually more interesting and had
Speaker 9: a much better, more likable I guess cast in general.
Speaker 9: And also Tarantino worked with him much more closely on
Speaker 9: the development of the script, and you can really get
Speaker 9: a good sense of that if you listen to the
Speaker 9: commentary tract they both did on the DVD. Tarantino really
Speaker 9: encouraged him to dive into the minutia of the world
Speaker 9: that he was presenting, so he really guided him. So
Speaker 9: when you're basically working with one of the greatest cinematic
Speaker 9: dramatists of our generation, you would hope you'd benefit from that,
Speaker 9: and Eli definitely did.
Speaker 5: I had no idea the appetite was this big for
Speaker 5: a film like this. I had no idea that this
Speaker 5: many people would respond to my ideas and to my
Speaker 5: political commentary, to my disgust with you know, the Bush
Speaker 5: administration and shocking images coming back from Iraq and all
Speaker 5: these fears that I have that you know, everybody else
Speaker 5: was feeling.
Speaker 14: It.
Speaker 3: It was like it was in the climate and it
Speaker 3: became part.
Speaker 5: Of the culture, and I thought, you know what, I
Speaker 5: really want to explore this further, and if I'm going
Speaker 5: to do it, I have to do it right now.
Speaker 5: I can't take any time off, and I thought, Okay,
Speaker 5: instead of writing Hostile Too, I want it to be
Speaker 5: part two.
Speaker 3: There's Kill Bill Volume one and Kill Bill Volume two.
Speaker 5: And I looked at Saw Too and Devil's Rejects, which
Speaker 5: I thought were really superb horror sequels that really took
Speaker 5: it to the next level, and I kept thinking about
Speaker 5: the next level and the next level of the Factory
Speaker 5: and the next level of depravity and human beings.
Speaker 9: Following Hostle two, he did the Thanksgiving trailer for grind House,
Speaker 9: which is.
Speaker 3: Fantastic, amazing, amazing, so good.
Speaker 9: And then my favorite thing that he did was that
Speaker 9: Little Black and White Nation's Pride segment the film within
Speaker 9: a film in Inglorious Bastards, which Eli shot and directed.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he really nailed the reconstall. I kind of look
Speaker 3: with that.
Speaker 9: Yeah, interesting, nicely pieced together action sequence, and I thought
Speaker 9: that was one of his most technically accomplished bits, even
Speaker 9: though it's embedded within another film. And I thought Eli
Speaker 9: was actually quite good in the film.
Speaker 14: Antonio, Margaret.
Speaker 3: Cord It, Margaret Progressed, Margarii, Margheriti. Yeah, yeah, well, and
Speaker 3: I mean again, how complimentary too. I mean to have
Speaker 3: you know, Tarantino saying, hey, to direct the film. Within
Speaker 3: the film, I want you to do that. I mean,
Speaker 3: obviously he sees a lot of promise in the guy.
Speaker 3: You know, he sees somebody who has a lot of potential.
Speaker 9: Or maybe he had a midlife crisis, man crush on him.
Speaker 3: Who knows, who knows, Maybe he's got really nice feed Hi.
Speaker 3: Hi'm Eli Roth, and I'm Gwinn Garentina. Welcome to our
Speaker 3: MySpace artists on artist artist on. Wait a minute, yeah,
Speaker 3: the artist talking with artist artist.
Speaker 9: There you go. So let's talk about our assessment of
Speaker 9: Eli the person. Now, neither of us know him personally,
Speaker 9: so we can only surmise what his behavior is like
Speaker 9: from the scant encounters we've had with him. I've actually,
Speaker 9: I don't know if I told you this, I've interviewed
Speaker 9: him a couple of times. That's not a personal encounter,
Speaker 9: as a phony, but you form impressions from that. And
Speaker 9: also I did see him introduce the screening of Inglorious Bastards,
Speaker 9: so that's my only direct experience with him, and they
Speaker 9: made an impression. But for the most part, you pick
Speaker 9: up little bits and pieces of things that he said publicly,
Speaker 9: and you form an impression of them. I'll say that
Speaker 9: the good he's hard waking, energetic, enthusiastic. He's a great
Speaker 9: champion of the horror genre, as you've already pointed out. Absolutely,
Speaker 9: and he's a good looking man and girls seem to
Speaker 9: like him.
Speaker 3: They definitely do, and I'm sure lots of boys and
Speaker 3: men like him as well.
Speaker 9: The bad is incredibly conceited, brutally self congratulatory, seemingly narcissistic.
Speaker 9: His ambition obviously outweighs his talents, and like many narcissists,
Speaker 9: he doesn't seem to take criticism well. His politics are
Speaker 9: hilariously all over the map, as we're going to talk about.
Speaker 9: And finally, he's a good looking man and girls seems
Speaker 9: to like him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, fucking.
Speaker 12: At all.
Speaker 3: Fucking guy.
Speaker 9: So about the arrogance of Eli, there's a few things
Speaker 9: that I think people started to notice when Hostile became
Speaker 9: a big smash hit. First of all, the endless, relentless
Speaker 9: Quentin Tarantin name dropping. Even in the interview I did
Speaker 9: with him, he was telling me how much Quentin thinks
Speaker 9: he's fantastic, loves his ideas, and just his propensity towards
Speaker 9: talking about himself. To that degree. Just really, especially if
Speaker 9: you're from Liverpool, you're not supposed to do that. That's
Speaker 9: where I'm from. People will rip you to pieces for
Speaker 9: talking about yourself like that in the most cruel vicious
Speaker 9: ways imaginable. So I know that this is a more
Speaker 9: acceptable thing in North America, especially in like Toronto. People
Speaker 9: do it hilariously, and you know, but if you do
Speaker 9: come from a background culturally where that's frowned upon, it
Speaker 9: becomes quite aggravating. And Eli has absolutely no sense of
Speaker 9: humility about talking and pontificating on what he perceives to
Speaker 9: be his great success. I find it nauseating and it's
Speaker 9: hard for me not to ridicule it.
Speaker 3: To have it all hit me at like thirty.
Speaker 5: Then you come back to la and suddenly like everyone
Speaker 5: in town wants to meet you, and you're like the
Speaker 5: hot thing, You're the big.
Speaker 3: Sale, and the festival. It's just like it was crazy.
Speaker 3: It was a fun fucking time.
Speaker 14: You know.
Speaker 3: There's a real fine line, I think, and I guess
Speaker 3: maybe it's not so fine, but there's definitely a line
Speaker 3: between that sort of obnoxious, you know, self congratulatory thing
Speaker 3: and just enjoying your own success and being enthusiastic about
Speaker 3: what you're doing and who you are, and that's you know,
Speaker 3: I'm I gotta be straight up. That's not an easy
Speaker 3: one to walk, you know, at any juncture, that's not
Speaker 3: an easy line to walk. So I don't know, I
Speaker 3: kind of give him a little bit of a pass there,
Speaker 3: not much, but a little bit. You know, there's a
Speaker 3: there's an acceptable level of what he's doing, and then
Speaker 3: there's the sort of way over the top that he
Speaker 3: seems to kind of keep shooting over.
Speaker 9: But okay, I'll go along with that. I think it
Speaker 9: is an acceptable sort of area, vague area, because the
Speaker 9: flip side of that is being too meek and full
Speaker 9: of self doubt and too humble. You're simply going to
Speaker 9: get eaten alive. But you do have to have a
Speaker 9: certain amount of arrogance and a certain amount of cocksuredness swell,
Speaker 9: and another thing about is arrogance. And it was a
Speaker 9: personal encounter in a sense I was there at a
Speaker 9: screening and it really did leave a strong impression on me,
Speaker 9: and over time it really kind of undermined how I
Speaker 9: felt about Eli. The Inglorious Bastard's premiered in Toronto, its
Speaker 9: first audience was in Toronto. Tarantino and Eli came here
Speaker 9: to show the film to an absolutely giddy audience who
Speaker 9: obviously loved the movie. Tarantino left twenty minutes in. He
Speaker 9: had to jump on a plane and go to New
Speaker 9: York for a press day the following day, and Eli
Speaker 9: stuck around to do the Q and A and Richard Krause.
Speaker 9: People in Toronto know Richard Krause. He's the go to guy.
Speaker 9: Whenever you need anyone, He'll show up at the opening
Speaker 9: of an envelope.
Speaker 3: Essentially, Yeah, he's everywhere.
Speaker 9: He's kind of like a poor man's Mark Him mode.
Speaker 9: He's got like the rockabilly look going, and he's sort
Speaker 9: of Canada's answer to Mark M Mode. Anyway, he was
Speaker 9: there introducing Eli. He gets up and he gives them
Speaker 9: quite a nice introduction. He's halfway through. It're telling you
Speaker 9: who Eli is, what his history is, and Eli comes
Speaker 9: running out from the wings, waves him down, waves him
Speaker 9: to shut up, dismissing him like, oh, nobody needs to
Speaker 9: hear any of that, grabs the microphone from him and
Speaker 9: proceeds to take over the Q and A. And poor
Speaker 9: Richard Krause is just standing there looking completely shell shocked.
Speaker 9: It's a humbling, humiliate, potentially humiliating experience, and Eli definitely
Speaker 9: made sure it was for Richard Krause.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's it's humiliating, Like you say already. You know,
Speaker 3: it's difficult to get up there and in front of
Speaker 3: an audience and sort of you know, houstless Q and
Speaker 3: have to walk that balancing act between making this person
Speaker 3: look good and also putting on you know, making sure
Speaker 3: that the audience is getting a good experience. Right, you
Speaker 3: kind of feel responsible for that, and for somebody to
Speaker 3: come and to kind of steamroll you in that fashion
Speaker 3: is I mean, that'd be awful. It'd be really humiliating,
Speaker 3: and I've seen it happen to other people. It's pretty bad.
Speaker 3: You know, it's everybody just kind of it's awkward for
Speaker 3: the audience and the poorschmuck on the stage.
Speaker 2: You know, you people are the worst audience I've ever seen.
Speaker 3: You're the worst comedian we've ever seen.
Speaker 15: Oh great, well, just sit here silently for the next
Speaker 15: ninety minutes, fine with us.
Speaker 9: So let's talk about Eli's inability to take criticism. I
Speaker 9: think over the years we've hid many examples of him
Speaker 9: responding to criticism in a very defensive, sometimes extremely angry way.
Speaker 9: There's one particular incident somebody sent me the text of this.
Speaker 9: I knew about it, but I'd never read his response
Speaker 9: in Fangoria. And I think what happened is people sent
Speaker 9: in letters about hostile and Eli responded, and they did
Speaker 9: it within the pages of Fangoria. And he was really
Speaker 9: focused on despite how much praise he was getting, it
Speaker 9: was really burning him the one critical perspective given to him,
Speaker 9: Like he just couldn't get past it. And this is
Speaker 9: almost to me like a sign of narcissism, because narcissists
Speaker 9: can't handle criticism. You could have like a nine hundred
Speaker 9: and ninety nine people telling you you're fantastic. One person
Speaker 9: says something negative and that's what they focus on.
Speaker 3: It's sad, isn't it. You know, like they just can't
Speaker 3: enjoy you know, they've got to focus in on that
Speaker 3: totally negative trait, you know, that one voice in the wilderness.
Speaker 3: You know, it's just like, man, just enjoy it.
Speaker 9: He says. Letters like this one reflect a very disturbing
Speaker 9: trend happening in cinema today, political correctness. This person is
Speaker 9: clearly out of touch with how young people in America speak.
Speaker 9: If you go to any high school or college campus,
Speaker 9: kids use the word gay to describe something they think
Speaker 9: is stupid or idiotic. I am trying to write characters
Speaker 9: who are real and speak the way young American people
Speaker 9: actually talk to each other. Now, this next phrase, I
Speaker 9: just love this next phrase. When someone is acting like
Speaker 9: a pussy, they call that person a fag.
Speaker 3: Let's get a two for insult there, right, So let's
Speaker 3: make sure they understand when somebody's acting like a pussy,
Speaker 3: like you know what acting like a pussy is like, right,
Speaker 3: I mean that's like, that's like acting like a woman.
Speaker 15: Right.
Speaker 3: But we're just calling them fags, so you know, I
Speaker 3: don't see what the big deal is. I mean, everybody
Speaker 3: knows that fag means pussy now, right, So I mean
Speaker 3: we're just we're just in something women, We're not something
Speaker 3: gay people who cares get over it.
Speaker 16: Fuck you.
Speaker 9: I don't know why you guys are waiting.
Speaker 5: It's a fucking bagdassinder follow off, fucking fucked You need
Speaker 5: one of.
Speaker 9: These two games, brups. Sorry, so I'll just read the
Speaker 9: last party. He says, if you want safe movies, that
Speaker 9: are politically correct. Why are you reading this magazine? Why
Speaker 9: not spend your time fighting politicians who try to outlaw
Speaker 9: homosexuality instead of filmmakers who are reflecting the world they
Speaker 9: see around them. However, Hostile clearly stayed something in this
Speaker 9: reader and sparked a discussion, which, for a filmmaker is
Speaker 9: all you can ask for. So again we have I
Speaker 9: think an example of Eli's inconsistency. He's almost celebrating the
Speaker 9: fact that this topic is coming up and it allows
Speaker 9: for a discussion, but he begins the piece by railing
Speaker 9: against that it's coming up.
Speaker 3: He doesn't want to have the discussion, right. It's like,
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that people are having discussion about this.
Speaker 3: I sure don't want to participate in any discussions about
Speaker 3: this though, and I'm really upset that people want to
Speaker 3: have this discussion. But it's good that they're having a discussion.
Speaker 3: I don't think it's very confusing. It's very like and
Speaker 3: I understand what he's saying about, like I'm reflecting the
Speaker 3: times and people say gay and bag and they don't
Speaker 3: really mean homophobic things with them. But I mean, what
Speaker 3: this really underlies to me is that Eli doesn't understand
Speaker 3: that that you don't get to tell the victims of
Speaker 3: abusive language what your abusive language was supposed to mean, right, Like,
Speaker 3: you don't get to say, well, hang on a minute.
Speaker 3: You know, I understand that that hurts you as a
Speaker 3: gay person, but I didn't mean it that way. So
Speaker 3: you shouldn't be offended that sense that you get to
Speaker 3: tell people whether they're offended or not. It's nonsense. You know,
Speaker 3: people can be offended. You know, people are allowed to
Speaker 3: not like people using those terms. You know, people are
Speaker 3: allowed to criticize you for choosing to use these terms.
Speaker 3: That's something you need to learn to accept if you're
Speaker 3: going to put those terms in your film, Right, is
Speaker 3: that people are going to come after you for that.
Speaker 9: Louis c. K has a fantastic deconstruction of the word
Speaker 9: fag and where it comes from.
Speaker 3: Yeah, does it bother you when he says the word faggot?
Speaker 2: No, it bothers me when you say it because you
Speaker 2: mean it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is like as a comedian and a
Speaker 3: gay guy, you're the only gay comic I know. Do
Speaker 3: you think I shouldn't be using that word on stage?
Speaker 17: I think you should use whatever words you want and
Speaker 17: when you use it on stage, I can see it's
Speaker 17: funny and I don't care.
Speaker 2: But are you interested to know what it might mean
Speaker 2: to gay men?
Speaker 11: Yeah?
Speaker 3: I am interested.
Speaker 17: Well, the word fagot really means a bundle of sticks
Speaker 17: used for kindling and a fire. Now, in the Middle Ages,
Speaker 17: when they used to burn people they thought were witches,
Speaker 17: they used to burn homosexuals too, and they used to
Speaker 17: burn the witches at a steak. But they thought the
Speaker 17: homosexuals were too low and disgusting to be given a
Speaker 17: stake to be burned on, so they used to just
Speaker 17: throw them in with the kindling, but the other fagots.
Speaker 2: So that's how you get flaming faggot.
Speaker 3: So what you're saying is gay people are a good
Speaker 3: alternative fuel source.
Speaker 2: Should they get the term diesel dyke?
Speaker 3: I'm sorry, go ahead.
Speaker 17: You might want to know that every gay man in
Speaker 17: America has probably had that word shouted at them when
Speaker 17: they're being beaten up, sometimes many times, sometimes by a
Speaker 17: lot of people all at once. So when you say it,
Speaker 17: it kind of brings that all back up. But you know,
Speaker 17: by all means, use it get your laughs, but you know,
Speaker 17: I you know what it means. Okay, thanks fagging. We'll
Speaker 17: keep that in mind.
Speaker 9: But I feel like if somebody's acting like a fag,
Speaker 9: I call them a retoug.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what is it?
Speaker 18: Right?
Speaker 3: Oh you're pussy? Oh? That because that's better, right, you know,
Speaker 3: not because I want to deny anybody the right. If
Speaker 3: you want to say fag or gay or pussy or
Speaker 3: like whatever horrible word you want to use, that's on you.
Speaker 3: But that also means that people get to like make
Speaker 3: judgments about you because you use those terms. That also
Speaker 3: means that people get to like criticize you for using
Speaker 3: those terms, and people are going to get their feelings hurt.
Speaker 3: And if you're not looking to hurt those people's feelings, geez,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe it's incumbent upon you not to use
Speaker 3: those terms anymore. It's all I'm saying, he says.
Speaker 9: In another interview, he says it's funny that people always
Speaker 9: assume that if there's a frat guy, it's based on me.
Speaker 9: But generally the one closest to me in hostile is
Speaker 9: the shy wan who's never done anything wrong, but it's
Speaker 9: forced into a horrible situation. So in his mind, he's
Speaker 9: not the bombastic frat boy that calls people fags because
Speaker 9: they're acting like pussies, even though that's what he said
Speaker 9: he does. He's the guy who's the shy, little quiet one.
Speaker 9: And I think you really get a good sense of
Speaker 9: that aspect of Eli in his cameo Impurane.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, if there's any like, he's clearly
Speaker 3: the shy, nice guy in that. I mean you see
Speaker 3: that really come out in him. He's clearly channeling something there,
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 9: And he's been careful to cultivate that image, like his
Speaker 9: cameo in death Proof too, Yeah, where he.
Speaker 3: Plays again another very shy, very reserved, nerdy person respector
Speaker 3: of women, you know, a respector of you know, all
Speaker 3: things academic and all things about being just a shy,
Speaker 3: nerdy art school guy. That's definitely when I think of that,
Speaker 3: I think Eui row.
Speaker 9: I would imagine a lot of actresses would like to
Speaker 9: get to know you.
Speaker 19: This would be a very good score for them to
Speaker 19: have an Eli Roth who's got his name above the title.
Speaker 3: Right, That's that's correct.
Speaker 13: So what do you do?
Speaker 9: How are you playing this? So you have do you
Speaker 9: have one girlfriend?
Speaker 3: Do you have many girlfriends?
Speaker 20: Well?
Speaker 5: You kind of you know, I go away to Prague
Speaker 5: and make the movies and Prague, you know, there's like
Speaker 5: usually I made a nice check girl, and I was
Speaker 5: actually pretty well behaved.
Speaker 3: On Hostile one.
Speaker 5: It was kind of a frat party.
Speaker 9: We just went berserk.
Speaker 3: It was like extras.
Speaker 9: Oh no, it was like extras, like crazy just girls
Speaker 9: that we met at me.
Speaker 5: Every night we were going out in Prague and getting
Speaker 5: phone numbers and going going insane and literally we'd be
Speaker 5: shooting on set with the extras getting phone numbers and
Speaker 5: it was nuts.
Speaker 3: Nude casting.
Speaker 5: No, it's literally like that was by the way. That
Speaker 5: became the very problem was I kept getting like I
Speaker 5: was up all night. I kept getting strep throat, and
Speaker 5: like we'd have a two day break and I'd go
Speaker 5: out with three girls in a weekend and I and
Speaker 5: then the movie like I literally I remember I was
Speaker 5: on set and I started falling asleep and they're like, Eli,
Speaker 5: what's the next setup? And I woke up and I
Speaker 5: was like, oh my god, this is actually affecting the film.
Speaker 5: And I was like I gotta be a monk and
Speaker 5: a completely I completely stopped cold turkey.
Speaker 9: So I find him to be a slippery fish, you know,
Speaker 9: And I think what was seeing lately from him is
Speaker 9: his politics just tend to twist in the wind or
Speaker 9: blow in whatever direction the wind's going in the wake
Speaker 9: of hostile And I talked to Hannah Eurotica, the editor
Speaker 9: of Axe Wound, and I guess Eli was a big
Speaker 9: supporter of that fanzine, this feminist horror fanzine, and she
Speaker 9: talked about, you know, good for him and good for him. Well,
Speaker 9: she says things like Eli is really progressive feminist views,
Speaker 9: you know, and he's a real champion of feminism. And
Speaker 9: of course feminists love using the phrase pussy as a
Speaker 9: derogatory term against that against anybody exhibiting feminine characteristics. But
Speaker 9: I'll read something that Eli said. I'll read something that
Speaker 9: Eli said that really epitomizes his staunch advocacy of feminist values.
Speaker 9: I think this section was from an arrow in the
Speaker 9: head article, but I'm.
Speaker 3: Not entirely sure that sounds right.
Speaker 9: He says, I didn't hate wrong tain. I hated the
Speaker 9: fact that they fucking called it seventies. I hated the
Speaker 9: fact that they said, look, how seventies we are, and
Speaker 9: then they got a girl with fake tits. Now that's
Speaker 9: not seventies, And they didn't even have her take her
Speaker 9: fucking clothes off. People fucking with their clothes on in
Speaker 9: an rated movie is nineteen ninety seven, not the seventies.
Speaker 9: When you got three fucking hillbillies. Ti likes the word fucking.
Speaker 9: It's really long up on this team. When you got
Speaker 9: three fucking hillbillies who were so inbred that they fuck
Speaker 9: each other. The middle guy is like, am I going
Speaker 9: to fuck Gollum? Or am I going to fuck the
Speaker 9: big guy? And then they have Eliza Doucecup on a
Speaker 9: bed and they don't even rip her fucking clothes off.
Speaker 9: You are fucking kidding me. That is so not fucking seventies.
Speaker 9: They're crazies. They're fucking naked every five minutes, my bloody Valentine.
Speaker 9: They're fucking naked every five minutes. Crazy hillbillies get a
Speaker 9: hot gale, they fucking fuck her. That's what they do,
Speaker 9: especially if they fuck each other. So why do you
Speaker 9: think he's getting so angry?
Speaker 3: I don't know, this is weird, Like to me, this
Speaker 3: is one of those things that exposes some like weird,
Speaker 3: deep seated stuff with this guy. You know, like he's
Speaker 3: really mad about this and really like.
Speaker 21: Like noted feminist, not in feminist Steli Rod, the guy
Speaker 21: with really progressive values, is really really mad that more
Speaker 21: women aren't getting naked, and that that's really you know,
Speaker 21: that's what's the point.
Speaker 3: Why do you have Eliza Dushku unless you get her naked?
Speaker 3: What's the point of her as an actress except to
Speaker 3: be naked to show her tits off?
Speaker 15: Right?
Speaker 9: I mean, fuck, what a waste?
Speaker 3: Why did you waste anybody's time coming out to see
Speaker 3: this movie when when that's what they want, that's what
Speaker 3: they're there for. You know, this is this is a
Speaker 3: very progressive feminist perspective from mister E. Lrott here.
Speaker 2: I'm very impressed now.
Speaker 9: I understand his frustration with these films that pretend to
Speaker 9: pay homage to earlier genres and they don't have the
Speaker 9: naive or the guts to go as far as these
Speaker 9: other genres did.
Speaker 3: He's not wrong. He's just really hung up on on
Speaker 3: the like sexualized aspects of it all. He's really hung
Speaker 3: up unlike the I want my tits and I want
Speaker 3: this like he's I don't know, he's not. He's not
Speaker 3: wrong in the sense that there's definitely a lot of
Speaker 3: pretenders who are trying to capture that vibe and failing.
Speaker 3: But I don't think it's I don't think it's the
Speaker 3: lack of tits that's hurting him.
Speaker 9: He redeems his feminist perspective with the concluding remark. He says,
Speaker 9: another thing that pisses me off is that when I
Speaker 9: go see a Stan Winston movie, I don't want to
Speaker 9: c CGI. I want fucking makeup. Don't tell me at
Speaker 9: seventies when you have fucking CGI, it's fucking insulting to me.
Speaker 9: And don't set up a movie with no fucking twists.
Speaker 9: I mean, come on, at least give me some twists
Speaker 9: or some tits or something. You guys gotta do better
Speaker 9: than that. I hate the fact that it was done
Speaker 9: by smart people that I know could do better. They
Speaker 9: fucking missed the mark. They pussied out with that movie.
Speaker 9: They pussied out by showing CGI go and by hiring
Speaker 9: TV actors that won't show their fucking tits in a
Speaker 9: sex scene.
Speaker 3: So again you're seeing what's important to noted feminist eliron right,
Speaker 3: like this is what's really important. But capturing that sementies
Speaker 3: feel it's tits?
Speaker 9: What about the CGI and Green and Finno. I haven't
Speaker 9: seen the movie, but this is one of the big
Speaker 9: complaints people had with it. It's full of CG apparently.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, like, this is it right, here's this
Speaker 3: guy going back and forth. You know, Oh, he's really progressive.
Speaker 3: They pussied out. I want tits, you know, and all
Speaker 3: these these these sober sensitive SJWs. I can't believe there's
Speaker 3: CGI in these movies. What a bunch of fucking bullshit,
Speaker 3: you know, Like it's it's these bizarre positions he's holding right.
Speaker 9: Like are they tits in the Green and Fair O?
Speaker 9: Because if there aren't, I'm not going so I.
Speaker 3: Will walk out.
Speaker 9: I will be so fucking fucking fucking fucking pissed if
Speaker 9: there's no fucking tits in the fucking movie.
Speaker 3: I want green tits.
Speaker 9: I want CGI tits for fuck's sakes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I want real prosthetic tits. I want like the
Speaker 3: total recall triple tits.
Speaker 9: I got to read the concluding remark because it's just
Speaker 9: too good, he says. And that's the difference between Dushkup
Speaker 9: and Katie Holmes. Katie Holmes gave us the boobs. You
Speaker 9: know what, if this isn't real like, if this isn't
Speaker 9: a real quote, somebody sent me this and it was
Speaker 9: a link, and I'm accepting at a face value that
Speaker 9: it really is an Eli quote. Maybe it's a parody
Speaker 9: of Eli. I don't know, but let's assume, you know,
Speaker 9: if I'm wrong and I've been tricked, because a lot
Speaker 9: of trickery is going on, by the way, So if
Speaker 9: I've fallen prey to a trick and it's a parody
Speaker 9: of Eli, I do have sincerely apologize ELI fans. Yeah,
Speaker 9: and I will gladly be corrected on this issue. But
Speaker 9: he says, when we saw the gift and she was
Speaker 9: standing there without her shit off, my fucking jaw was
Speaker 9: on the ground. And you know what, anytime that girl
Speaker 9: is in an R rated movie, I'll pay fucking money
Speaker 9: just to see it, because I know that Katie Holmes
Speaker 9: is willing to do what is required of the role.
Speaker 9: She's not like, look at me, I'm no good. She'll
Speaker 9: do what it takes. If there's a sex scene required,
Speaker 9: she'll fucking do it. She's got my nine books.
Speaker 3: These are the.
Speaker 9: Fucking TV actresses that won't do nudity and sex scenes.
Speaker 9: I'll watch them on TV for free. So there, I'm
Speaker 9: not paying for it.
Speaker 3: If you're an actress in Hollywood, Eli Roth wants you
Speaker 3: to know that it's your tits that he will pay for.
Speaker 3: And if you're not willing to go there, you can
Speaker 3: fuck off back to TV.
Speaker 9: I'm surprised he doesn't have like a rant on Facebook
Speaker 9: on hit like if you want to put an end
Speaker 9: to these actresses who won't show their tits, but that
Speaker 9: would be slack divism, so we wouldn't do that because
Speaker 9: he's against slacked.
Speaker 3: But he's not one of these frat boys.
Speaker 9: No, No, he's a sensitive He's a shy sensitive type.
Speaker 9: It comes across this has to be a joke. This
Speaker 9: has to be a joke.
Speaker 3: Yeah, can we sorry, can we get the correction?
Speaker 2: Can we get somebody there?
Speaker 14: Like?
Speaker 9: It has to be a joke, you know. And I'm
Speaker 9: sorry that I took at a face value because it's
Speaker 9: obviously a joke. But let's move on talking about his
Speaker 9: flip flopping. Do you remember And this was one of
Speaker 9: the occasions that he was on Rumor Radio and it
Speaker 9: was quite opportunistic because they were interviewing him for the magazine.
Speaker 9: I showed up and they said, oh, we're talking to Eli,
Speaker 9: and he'd just done this rant on Fox News that
Speaker 9: I loved, not so much the content, but just the
Speaker 9: fact that he was defending the horror genre and criticizing
Speaker 9: Bush and Cheney and the war in Iraq and everything,
Speaker 9: and he was making a point that horror films reflect
Speaker 9: important aspects of the cultural zeitgeist. Even though some of
Speaker 9: the details in that speech I thought were a bit overgeneralized,
Speaker 9: the fact that he was on Fox News defending the
Speaker 9: horror genre and being at that time seemingly a progressive liberal,
Speaker 9: I thought was interesting. So I got him on the
Speaker 9: phone and we talked about it. Of course, let's keep
Speaker 9: in mind this was two thousand and seven. This wasn't
Speaker 9: like when Michael Moore criticized the Iraq invasion at the
Speaker 9: Academy Awards and took a lot of flak. It was
Speaker 9: really unpopular to speak out against that war. But by
Speaker 9: the end of Bush Team two it was almost the opposite.
Speaker 9: It was unpopular not to speak out against it. So Eli,
Speaker 9: in a sense, wasn't doing anything when you look back,
Speaker 9: wasn't doing anything that provocative by showing up and giving
Speaker 9: Fox News the gears, because that was really the that
Speaker 9: was trendy.
Speaker 3: And this is the way the wind was blowing.
Speaker 9: Yeah, it was the way the wind was blowing. For sure.
Speaker 19: You're like, good to have you, great to be here, Neil,
Speaker 19: What do you think's going on? You would think that
Speaker 19: in the environment we have the fear of terror and
Speaker 19: everything else. The last thing we'd wanted to be in
Speaker 19: theaters is terrorized.
Speaker 3: Yep, we are.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 5: The truth of the matter is in times of terror,
Speaker 5: people want to People want to be terrified, but in
Speaker 5: a safe environment. Because with all the things that are
Speaker 5: going on in the world, certainly with the war in
Speaker 5: the Rack and the horrible, horrible aftermath of Hurricane Katrino,
Speaker 5: where our government did nothing to help anybody, you want
Speaker 5: to scream, and there really is no place in society
Speaker 5: where you can go and just scream at the top
Speaker 5: of your lungs and get it out of your system.
Speaker 5: And horror movies really provide that safe environment to do that,
Speaker 5: all right.
Speaker 19: But with some of the horror movies though, is it
Speaker 19: just the fact that editing's changed, or the fact we've
Speaker 19: always liked horror movies. They've always done very well.
Speaker 5: Right, Yeah, horror movies, I mean it goes in cycles.
Speaker 5: You know, in the seventies with Vietnam, all of a
Speaker 5: sudden you had movies like Last House on the Left
Speaker 5: and The Texas Chainsaw Masker and Don and the Dead.
Speaker 5: And then if you notice, you know, kind of in
Speaker 5: the Clinton administration, when things were calm, there weren't that
Speaker 5: many horror movies. But now, you know, thanks to George
Speaker 5: Bush and Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld, there's a whole
Speaker 5: new wave of horror movies that are back.
Speaker 9: So I see him almost as a horrizeic.
Speaker 3: All right.
Speaker 9: Put him in a room full of feminists. He starts
Speaker 9: talking about the male gaze. Stick him in a room
Speaker 9: full of frat boys. He's demanding Elijah Douschcou's tits. Stick
Speaker 9: him in a room full of dentists. He's talking about
Speaker 9: killing lions.
Speaker 3: He's a social chameleon. He blends in wherever he goes.
Speaker 9: Stick him in a room full of indigenous activists. I
Speaker 9: imagine he'll start railing against the oil companies.
Speaker 3: Oh, this damn oil company.
Speaker 9: He wouldn't go that far.
Speaker 3: No, he doesn't take that kind of SJW. Crap, does he.
Speaker 9: So this brings us now to the Green Inferno, which
Speaker 9: premiered at the Toronto Film Festival in twenty thirteen. Now,
Speaker 9: after Hostele Too, Eli's directing career sort of took a
Speaker 9: backseat to his acting career and his producing career, and
Speaker 9: he's been very prolific and very busy and involved in
Speaker 9: all sorts of stuff. The Last Exorcism, after Shock, Hemlock Grove,
Speaker 9: and of course what was the kung fu one from
Speaker 9: the Wu Tang Klang guy, the Man with the Iron Fists.
Speaker 3: Man with the Golden Golden fists.
Speaker 9: Something like that. He went off to China and he
Speaker 9: did a massive production over in China. So he's been
Speaker 9: very busy. Even though he hasn't been directed in movies lately,
Speaker 9: he's been very busy in the film business. Absolutely, nobody
Speaker 9: will ever accuse him of not being a hard working filmmaker,
Speaker 9: not at all. Of course. The Green infer and O
Speaker 9: is a reference to the film within a film in
Speaker 9: Cannibal Holocaust and the nickname for the jungle. Interestingly, the
Speaker 9: term itself carries with it a certain kind of Christian
Speaker 9: repressive view of nature, the Green Infano. But it's a
Speaker 9: cool title. It's a great needs, it's a great title
Speaker 9: if you're going to resurrect the cannibal movie. I couldn't
Speaker 9: think of a better title than The Green Inferno.
Speaker 22: Today, we are already on the threshold of conquering our galaxy,
Speaker 22: and in a not too distant tomorrow, we'll be considering
Speaker 22: the conquest of the universe. And yet Man seems to
Speaker 22: ignore the fact that on this very planet there are
Speaker 22: still people living in the Stone Age and practicing cannibalism,
Speaker 22: primitive tribes, isolated, ruthless and hostile environment where the prevailing
Speaker 22: law is the survival of the fitness. And this jungle,
Speaker 22: which its inhabitants referred to as the Green Inferno, is
Speaker 22: only a few hours flying time from New York City.
Speaker 9: And of course Eli is an outspoken advocate of this
Speaker 9: dubious subgenre. I'm not particularly a fan of it, although
Speaker 9: I do find Cannibal Holocaust an incredibly fascinating film that
Speaker 9: I've watched many times and I think it does something
Speaker 9: incredibly unique. But he loves the genre, so he's decided
Speaker 9: to revive it in twenty thirteen. So the plot as
Speaker 9: I know it, and this is at the point where
Speaker 9: I sort of tuned out once I heared what the
Speaker 9: film was about or what his target was I just decided, oh,
Speaker 9: you know what, I don't need to listen to any
Speaker 9: more bullshit for Eli rather about politics or any of
Speaker 9: his political critiques. But it is apparently, you know, let's
Speaker 9: face it, you're going to revive the Cannibal movie in
Speaker 9: two thousand and three eighteen, Well, you have a few
Speaker 9: challenges and a few great opportunities as well for political satire.
Speaker 9: The Amazon is one of the most important places on
Speaker 9: Earth as far as our biodiversity and the biodiversity of
Speaker 9: the planet, and the health of the planet's ecosystem and atmosphere.
Speaker 9: The Amazon has been referred to as the lungs of
Speaker 9: the planet. More oxygen is released from the Amazon than
Speaker 9: anywhere else, and obviously, with greenhouse gases piling up, the
Speaker 9: more oxygen we have, the more we balance out the
Speaker 9: greenhouse gases. So by diminishing the Amazon, we're potentially on
Speaker 9: the verge of a mass extinction. So it's of incredible
Speaker 9: critical importance what's going on in the Amazon. So are
Speaker 9: you going to do an Amazon movie? Tons of stuff
Speaker 9: to go after. Politically, you can go after the exploitation,
Speaker 9: how oil companies, how deforestation works, how the media industry
Speaker 9: is in there, wiping shit out to grow grain for cattle.
Speaker 9: There's so many stuff, corrupt local gold, government's repression of
Speaker 9: indigenous tribes, all these things come into.
Speaker 3: Phony drug wars, all that kind of stuff, right like,
Speaker 3: it all ties in there.
Speaker 9: One of the biggest challenges of resurrecting the cannibal subgenre
Speaker 9: are the cannibals because basically that plays into this time
Speaker 9: on a tradition of demonizing a local population to drum
Speaker 9: up support for imperial colonial conquest, right, which is obviously
Speaker 9: affecting that region. So there's ways to do it. And
Speaker 9: I'm not opposed to the idea of having a cannibal movie,
Speaker 9: but there's ways to address it. And I'm not sure
Speaker 9: if Eli did address it. I haven't seen the film,
Speaker 9: but from what he's saying, given that entire range of possibilities,
Speaker 9: his focus, and this is based on how he was
Speaker 9: talking about the film, his focus was the slacktivists who
Speaker 9: care about the Amazon, the social justice warriors, although he
Speaker 9: wasn't using the term social justice warriors in twenty thirteen
Speaker 9: because I don't think it was common parlance. Like I said,
Speaker 9: he just kind of blows with the wind. So now
Speaker 9: that's become a fashionable team. He uses it today. Back then,
Speaker 9: it was all about slacktivists. Slacktivists, of course, are people
Speaker 9: who just click like when they see something show up
Speaker 9: on Facebook or Twitter and they retweet something. They don't
Speaker 9: really do anything about it, but they feel good that
Speaker 9: they've hit like or they've signed a petition, and then
Speaker 9: they go back to their cozy little lives without really
Speaker 9: inconveniencing themselves, and they're contributing nothing to the cause. That's
Speaker 9: what slack divism is.
Speaker 3: And those people are very real, and they're very legitimitimasure
Speaker 3: legitimate problems that the activist community could have with them.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and they're right for satire, there's no question about it,
Speaker 9: no doubt. But let's face it, a group of kids
Speaker 9: who get on a plane and go to the Amazon
Speaker 9: to fight an oil company. That's not slacktivism. That's called activism.
Speaker 9: So I think I think Paul Eli in his political confusion,
Speaker 9: he's got activism, slacktivism confusion, or what I like to
Speaker 9: call on cracktivism. That's his particular perspective on the issue. Yeah,
Speaker 9: there's a.
Speaker 3: Big difference between hashtaging something and actually getting on a plane,
Speaker 3: traveling to a foreign country and actually trying to do something,
Speaker 3: however misguided that thing may be. You at least can't
Speaker 3: call those people lazy, and you at least can't say
Speaker 3: that those people are just a bunch of hipster slackers
Speaker 3: who you know, can't be bothered to do anything in
Speaker 3: the real world. The fact that they're actually traveling out
Speaker 3: to the jungle kind of undermines that premise just a
Speaker 3: little bit.
Speaker 5: Mind.
Speaker 23: If a dummy asques what it is you hope to
Speaker 23: find in this blessed village, I told you. My thesis
Speaker 23: claims that cannibalism as an organized practice of human societ
Speaker 23: does not exist, and historically has never existed.
Speaker 3: So much the better, dear, According to Gloria Man eat
Speaker 3: Man is bullshit.
Speaker 23: Let's say it was an invention of racist colonialism, which
Speaker 23: had a vested interest in creating the myth of the ferocious,
Speaker 23: subhuman savage fit only for extermination. The mythical lie of
Speaker 23: cannibal ferox was only an alibi to justify the greed
Speaker 23: and cruelty of the conquistadores.
Speaker 9: So at some point last year, Eli did an interview
Speaker 9: with a magazine and he was asked the question. One
Speaker 9: reviewer called the portrayal of the indigenous peoples in the
Speaker 9: Green and Ferno reactionary and dehumanizing. How do you respond
Speaker 9: to that? And Eli says, I think the only people
Speaker 9: who really worry about that are overly concerned North Americans
Speaker 9: who want to appear concerned in other ways, the very
Speaker 9: activists that Eli is attempting to lampoon, conveniently, the very
Speaker 9: slacktivists that he thinks are likely to raise objections about
Speaker 9: his depiction of indigenous tribes in the Amazon as flesh
Speaker 9: eating cannibals.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I mean that's the interesting thing here is
Speaker 3: that he seems sort of very confused about who exactly
Speaker 3: it is he's going after and who exactly is the problem,
Speaker 3: you know, is the problem in the Amazon slacktivists, Is
Speaker 3: the problem in the Amazon actual activists traveling there to
Speaker 3: to you know, take part in actual real world activism,
Speaker 3: or is the real problems in the Amazon probably things
Speaker 3: like oil companies, you know, corrupt governments, corrupt militaries, corrupt
Speaker 3: police forces, all those sorts of things. Right, So, I mean,
Speaker 3: by taking aim at people who are likely to be
Speaker 3: helping these problems or at least wanting to help these
Speaker 3: problems and maybe being misguided about how they're doing it,
Speaker 3: or maybe not fully understanding the right way to help
Speaker 3: or the most productive way to help. Their hearts are
Speaker 3: still in a place that comes from wanting to actually
Speaker 3: elevate the Amazon region out of some of the very real,
Speaker 3: you know, threats to its future that it's under right now,
Speaker 3: and going after those people just seems frightfully misguided to me.
Speaker 3: You know, it just seems like, like, nah, I'm not
Speaker 3: gonna I'm not going to go after the people who
Speaker 3: really have a lot of power in this situation. I'm
Speaker 3: going to go after the people who are actually relatively
Speaker 3: powerless in this situation. And I think that's probably where
Speaker 3: he's steering in a very wrong direction.
Speaker 9: I have a theory about this, and I feel like
Speaker 9: very much how Griffith.
Speaker 20: D W.
Speaker 9: Griffith made intolerance as a spiteful reaction against what he
Speaker 9: perceived to be the intolerance of the racism of bath
Speaker 9: of a nation. I realized it's preposterous to talk about
Speaker 9: Eli Roth in comparison to T. W. Griff who was
Speaker 9: a visionary filmmaker, but politically in terms of their political cluelessness.
Speaker 9: They're more closely aligned so very much. How Intolerance, which
Speaker 9: is a stupid but magnificent film, tackles Griffith's frustration with
Speaker 9: the intolerance of Birth of a Nation. I feel like
Speaker 9: where Green Inferno is coming from initially is a build
Speaker 9: up of this resentment, you know, the fact that I
Speaker 9: blame it on Eliza douche Coup. Had she shown it
Speaker 9: tits in wrong tain, we wouldn't have the Green Inferno
Speaker 9: and the slacktivists under fire, because effectively, what he's doing
Speaker 9: is he's demonizing the very people he imagines are going
Speaker 9: to have a problem with him making a cannibal movie,
Speaker 9: and not the actual.
Speaker 3: People who have a problem with him making a cannibal movie.
Speaker 3: And that's a very important distinction to make. The battle
Speaker 3: that a lot of these people are having against selectivists
Speaker 3: and that sort of thing are a battle with imaginary
Speaker 3: people in their heads. They're fighting with shapes they see
Speaker 3: in the clouds because they're not real things, you know.
Speaker 3: So he's doing battle with these sort of imaginary activists
Speaker 3: in his head that are going to hate this film,
Speaker 3: when the reality may be very different and there may
Speaker 3: be really very real activists with very legitimate concerns about
Speaker 3: his film and the impact that it's going to have
Speaker 3: on how Indigenous people are perceived, and in fact, the
Speaker 3: impact he may have already had on an Indigenous people
Speaker 3: that they shot with.
Speaker 9: So he and all this stuff, I just immediately tuned
Speaker 9: out of The Green infa and O. And to be honest,
Speaker 9: just Eli Roth, I'm like, Okay, enough is enough. You know,
Speaker 9: I hate to be dismissive of someone. Like I said,
Speaker 9: I do recognize that he's a hard guy. And even
Speaker 9: making The Green Infano, I mean, the guy goes into
Speaker 9: the Amazon, they almost died. Apparently at one point, they're
Speaker 9: getting eaten alive by bugs. They're all getting sick. I mean,
Speaker 9: you have to have respect for the effort and the
Speaker 9: adventuresome spirit of the filmmaker, you know, doing this crazy
Speaker 9: Fitzcaraldo type of thing or something, you know what I mean, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Exactly, It's awesome, Like on that level, it's so awesome
Speaker 3: and so interesting, and I imagine there's a million amazing
Speaker 3: stories about the production of this film and just the
Speaker 3: kind of hardships that the crew and the actors went through,
Speaker 3: and like I have no doubt that a herculean effort
Speaker 3: was expended to make this movie, and I definitely have
Speaker 3: a lot of respect for that.
Speaker 9: But in terms of my own sort of interest in
Speaker 9: I guess what I'm attracted to in horror films and
Speaker 9: why I'm fundamentally interested in the genre still as an
Speaker 9: adult is because I really, especially in the nineties, I
Speaker 9: really started to connect to the subverse of progressive elements
Speaker 9: of the films, you know, like a movie like Dawn
Speaker 9: of the Dead, Romero's Dawn of the Dead. It is
Speaker 9: so important to me. But what I'm seeing in this
Speaker 9: generation is a complete erosion of that sensibility. Somebody like
Speaker 9: Eli Roth recognizes on a very superficial level that horror
Speaker 9: films have great social import and he praises himself forgiving
Speaker 9: The Green Inferno a social commentary, and other people just
Speaker 9: blindly have praised him. It's got social commentary, just like
Speaker 9: the great horror movies of the seventies. But I don't
Speaker 9: think Eli quite understands the social commentary in some of
Speaker 9: the great films that we all sort of mutually enjoy.
Speaker 9: And that's the problem with him is political sensibility needs
Speaker 9: a great deal of work. So despite how impressive his
Speaker 9: efforts are and his work ethic. Personally, I just don't
Speaker 9: care about the guy's trip anymore. I would have been
Speaker 9: happy to go along my way and never think about
Speaker 9: Eli Roth again. But then about a week and a
Speaker 9: half ago, I get a link off a long time
Speaker 9: Cinophobia listener and former contributor, mister Mike Tank, who has
Speaker 9: a propensity for sending me these links that aggravate me
Speaker 9: tremendously and have set me off on massive tirades, shit
Speaker 9: that I would never know about otherwise, And this was
Speaker 9: one of those instances. He sent me the link to
Speaker 9: an article on a website called Bathmovies Death dot com.
Speaker 9: The article was called eli Roth goes full gamer Gates
Speaker 9: pimping the Green Inferno, and the article was talking about
Speaker 9: the political sensibility behind the current Green Inferno, posting, now
Speaker 9: we should mention also that the Green and Ferna went
Speaker 9: into some sort of crazy distribution.
Speaker 2: Hell.
Speaker 9: I don't know what happened, but I think what happened
Speaker 9: was the company that was going to distribute it went under,
Speaker 9: and it took a while for him to kind of
Speaker 9: attach it to another place, and he'd already been doing press.
Speaker 9: It was supposed to come out in September twenty fourteen,
Speaker 9: a full year after it was at the film Festival.
Speaker 9: Well that was two years ago now, so in order
Speaker 9: to bring it back into the marketplace and give it
Speaker 9: a kind of fresh coat of pains as far as
Speaker 9: the publicity goes, it's come out in September, by the way,
Speaker 9: September twenty fifth. They devised a whole new marketing campaign
Speaker 9: that apparently is taking advantage on some social cultural undercurrents
Speaker 9: that have been going on lately that I've been largely
Speaker 9: oblivious towards, but you've been really keyed into. So do
Speaker 9: me a favor. Explain to me the poster of this
Speaker 9: new campaign and exactly the sort of audience you think
Speaker 9: the green Infirno is now meant to attract.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so this was fascinating actually, And as soon as
Speaker 3: I saw this poster, I was actually pretty pretty blown
Speaker 3: away by how sort of blatantly he's chasing this certain audience.
Speaker 3: So what you see on the posters big letters justice
Speaker 3: will be served, you know, big red letters. And then
Speaker 3: you see this, you know, severed hand, you know, clutching
Speaker 3: an iPhone. And I'm sure they were very intentional about
Speaker 3: getting something that looked like an iPhone. You know, they've
Speaker 3: got to sort of take the boots to those you know,
Speaker 3: Apple hipsters. You know, I'm sure that was in a
Speaker 3: discussion somewhere. And the phone has all these hashtags on it.
Speaker 3: So somebody that looks like they're posting something to Twitter
Speaker 3: and there's all these hashtags. And so there's you know,
Speaker 3: jungle Gate, you know acts now you in Social Justice
Speaker 3: for All, which, interestingly enough, I think all three of
Speaker 3: those are actual hashtags that people use to discuss various issues.
Speaker 3: And then there was Native Lives Matter and Indigenous Lives Matter,
Speaker 3: which are two hashtags that looks like plays on the
Speaker 3: Black Lives Matter hashtag. So's he's speaking to an audience
Speaker 3: that that doesn't have a lot of respect or time
Speaker 3: for this sort of hashtag activism, right. A lot of
Speaker 3: people accuse it of being this sort of lazy, you know,
Speaker 3: slacktivist kind of thing to do. And the thing is
Speaker 3: is that these hashtags are also speaking very directly to
Speaker 3: people involved in a movement called gamer gait. It's one
Speaker 3: of the I guess, the biggest umbrella term we could
Speaker 3: use for these people, although they have I mean, there's
Speaker 3: gamer gait and there's some men's right stuff mixed up
Speaker 3: in there, and it kind of goes all over the map.
Speaker 3: So it's hard to kind of figure out what to
Speaker 3: call these people. But the unifying principle is that they
Speaker 3: all sort of can't stand these social justice warriors and
Speaker 3: they're they're, oh, they can't take it. You know, they
Speaker 3: don't like their social justice warriors can't tolerate free speech,
Speaker 3: and you know, we're not allowed to say what we
Speaker 3: want because social justice warriors are here, you know, shaming
Speaker 3: people off the Internet and you know, using their Twitter
Speaker 3: activism to you know, make people lose their jobs because
Speaker 3: they said something awful on the Internet, or make somebody
Speaker 3: you know, have to apologize because they say something awful
Speaker 3: on the Internet. There's a real pushback against any sort
Speaker 3: of social justice type speech on the Internet. There's a
Speaker 3: real pushback against minorities and women having an opportunity to
Speaker 3: speak openly on the Internet, which in a way it
Speaker 3: very much harms one of the key functions as I
Speaker 3: see it, of the Internet, which is allowing people who
Speaker 3: have been kept out of traditional mass media. The Internet
Speaker 3: is a bit of a playing field leveler for those people.
Speaker 3: It's a way for those people to get their issues
Speaker 3: on a much larger stage, and so by by playing
Speaker 3: with a group that is really dedicated to shutting that down, right, Like,
Speaker 3: they don't want to hear that. We don't want to
Speaker 3: hear about your minority problems. We don't want to hear
Speaker 3: about your you know, your your women's problems. Oh you're
Speaker 3: you're concerned about violence and video games, Well you don't what.
Speaker 3: We don't want to hear about that. And you're concerned
Speaker 3: about the portrayal of women in video games, Well, we
Speaker 3: don't definitely don't want to hear about any of that.
Speaker 3: And it just kind of goes on and on and
Speaker 3: on and on and on. Right, we don't want to
Speaker 3: hear about minorities. We don't want to hear about this.
Speaker 3: So it's it's in a way quite perverse, you know,
Speaker 3: to be to be going after people who are actively
Speaker 3: working to shut down minority voices, particularly voices are women.
Speaker 3: It's they have a very shocking propensity for that. So
Speaker 3: right away when you see this poster speaking to that group,
Speaker 3: it's it's shocking.
Speaker 9: Well, there's a couple of things that strike me as odd.
Speaker 9: First of all, so while we can I guess all
Speaker 9: empathize to some degree with the frustration of I hate
Speaker 9: the term social justice worry, but the type of person
Speaker 9: that's just going to get like, really intensely offended by stuff,
Speaker 9: you know, and call for boycotts of things. And they exist, obviously,
Speaker 9: while we can get irritated by that. The problem I
Speaker 9: think with Eli's marketing, and at this point when I
Speaker 9: first saw the poster, I actually assumed it was just
Speaker 9: obliviousness on his post. I'm questioning that now significantly, as
Speaker 9: I think we all will by the time we get
Speaker 9: to the end of this. But he's equating that kind
Speaker 9: of knee jake slacktivism meaninglessness with legitimate activism.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 9: Absolutely, like the Black Lives Matter movement, which seems to
Speaker 9: be lampooned in that poster. This is a situation that
Speaker 9: happened in the wake of the Trayvon Martin killing, where
Speaker 9: George Zimmermann got away scoff free from just hunting down
Speaker 9: a black head and shooting them to death. The movement
Speaker 9: exploded in the wake of the Walter Scott shooting, where
Speaker 9: a policeman shot a black man eight times in the back.
Speaker 9: The video everyone's seen the video eight times in the
Speaker 9: back supposedly for a traffic violation. So this movement has
Speaker 9: grown in opposition to this epidemic of police brutality and
Speaker 9: just the mistreatment of black people in American society at large.
Speaker 9: It's a popular movement against it. Speaking out against it.
Speaker 9: That gives legitimacy to the great promise of the Internet
Speaker 9: that the Internet could be used to mobilize and organize
Speaker 9: and build progressive movements. Like these hashtags aren't just meaningless
Speaker 9: things that people throw around. They do reflect actual organized movements.
Speaker 9: There was a massive Black Lives Matter demonstration here in Toronto,
Speaker 9: and this is necessary. Is Eli really against people speaking
Speaker 9: out against these crimes against ethnic minorities in America that
Speaker 9: are all over the internet.
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And is he willing to do that to the extent
Speaker 3: that he is willing to engage and inflame a group
Speaker 3: that has actually contributed quite a bit to attempting to
Speaker 3: shut all that sort of debate and decission down right
Speaker 3: and to silence minority voices on these very issues. And
Speaker 3: I mean, while we're kind of talking, you know, selectivism
Speaker 3: and all that sort of thing, you know, we need
Speaker 3: to keep in mind the extreme power of social media
Speaker 3: in terms of using it to politically mobilize, particularly in
Speaker 3: countries where traditional means of mobilization are not as available
Speaker 3: to everyone. You know, Twitter played an extremely large role
Speaker 3: in the activism during the Arab Spring that brought down
Speaker 3: the Egyptian government. You know, it's very important to keep
Speaker 3: in mind that these are not it's not slacktivists doing this.
Speaker 3: You know, these tools are being used by people to
Speaker 3: overthrow oppressive regimes around the world, you know, and been
Speaker 3: proven to be valuable tools for doing so. Google had
Speaker 3: a full time employee working just to keep activists informed
Speaker 3: of new techniques to keep their methods of communication up
Speaker 3: and running, because Google recognized the power of the Internet
Speaker 3: in order to keep activists connected. It's a profoundly, profoundly
Speaker 3: important tool. And while you can definitely find people using
Speaker 3: it to share pictures of cats and their dicks and
Speaker 3: whatever else, you can also find it find people organizing
Speaker 3: to overthrow oppressive regimes. And that's important, you know. I
Speaker 3: think that's worth all the worthless cat pictures and whatever
Speaker 3: both shit that's on there.
Speaker 9: So in the wake of that Bath movie's death article,
Speaker 9: I went back to take another look, a closer look
Speaker 9: at a petition i'd caught wind of a couple of
Speaker 9: weeks earlier, but I never really paid any real attention
Speaker 9: to it because, like I said, I wasn't really interested
Speaker 9: in the movie. But a petition showed up on change
Speaker 9: dot Org entitled petitioning Eli Roth to cancel the launch
Speaker 9: of the dehumanizing film Green Inferno. The petition was started
Speaker 9: by somebody called boycott Green in fa and O from
Speaker 9: the United States. There's no clues as to the identity
Speaker 9: of who started the petition, and there's a statement there
Speaker 9: attributed to Amazon Watch, which is an environmental organization, and
Speaker 9: it's a statement taking issue with the depiction of the
Speaker 9: Indigenous peoples in the Green in Fear and O. Like
Speaker 9: I said, initially, I didn't pay much attention to it.
Speaker 9: I did notice that you get your typical response, especially
Speaker 9: the reaction area's weighing in, going, oh, that's social justice warriors.
Speaker 9: They've gone too far.
Speaker 3: There's time, but they're all over the petition, like the
Speaker 3: comments you can't you can't throw a rock and not
Speaker 3: hit some guy who's you know, making hateful comments or
Speaker 3: you know, trashing Native people or trashing sjw's. It's completely
Speaker 3: overrun with reactionaries at this point.
Speaker 9: But taking a close look, I realized immediately that there's
Speaker 9: quite a few very suspicious things about this particular petition.
Speaker 9: First of all, it's signed off by Amazon Watch, which
Speaker 9: nobody seemed to be talking about. That this is a
Speaker 9: legitimate environmental movement. So all that I hate these social
Speaker 9: justice warriors, well, Amazon Watch aren't slacktivists. They're not just
Speaker 9: hashtag reactive wingin babies. They're actually people on the ground
Speaker 9: trying to make a difference, supposedly in the Amazon I
Speaker 9: don't really know that much about the organization. Weirdly, I'll
Speaker 9: tell you this how I've laid this. Eli Roth has
Speaker 9: a great deal of respect for this organization. Loves Amazon
Speaker 9: Watch absolutely, he does.
Speaker 3: You know, he certainly would consider their seal of approval
Speaker 3: a very important thing to the legitimacy of the Green Inferno.
Speaker 9: So, all of a sudden, we got a petition against
Speaker 9: the movie. Now, as anyone who has even a rudimentary
Speaker 9: understanding of the history of exploitation films, nothing helps promote
Speaker 9: a horror movie better than when a group comes out
Speaker 9: in opposition to it or calls for a boycott. It's
Speaker 9: a great publicity tool. So immediately I started to suspect,
Speaker 9: maybe this is a fabrication of the marketing department of
Speaker 9: the Green and Feno. It's a legitimate question. This petition
Speaker 9: conveniently shows up that seems to not only be drumming
Speaker 9: up controversy for the film, but also seemingly becomes evidence
Speaker 9: for what the film is about, these people who won't
Speaker 9: let us do what we want, these social justice warriors.
Speaker 9: So peeking around some of the comments everywhere, this wasn't
Speaker 9: an uncommon conclusion that fans were drawing that it was
Speaker 9: a marketing ploy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was definitely my assessment also, right like just
Speaker 3: sort of my shoot from the hip look at it was, Yeah,
Speaker 3: this is probably some kind of marketing you know, smoking
Speaker 3: mirrors from the you know, Eli Ross team. Certainly not
Speaker 3: unexpected and very much par for the exploitation course.
Speaker 9: And of course this is bothering me because again he's
Speaker 9: equating who he thinks he's going after, slacktivists with actual activism.
Speaker 9: So if they're throw an Amazon Watch under the bus
Speaker 9: to draw up some phony marketing campaign and they're bringing
Speaker 9: out of the woodwork all these reactionary, spiteful, hateful comments
Speaker 9: against the people doing the petition. Then they're trying to
Speaker 9: destroy the credibility of an actual legitimate activist organization to
Speaker 9: draw them up support for an argument that's bullshit to
Speaker 9: begin with. The Other theory is that maybe it was
Speaker 9: somebody from Amazon Watch. So I google the phrase, I
Speaker 9: go back to Amazon Watch. There's nothing on their site
Speaker 9: about it. I couldn't find any real hits leading me
Speaker 9: to the source of the statement that was included in
Speaker 9: the petition.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and their page is full of campaigns that they
Speaker 3: are currently running, awareness campaigns, all that sort of thing.
Speaker 3: There's no mention of Green Inferno, no mention of Eliingroth,
Speaker 3: no mention of anything of that nature.
Speaker 9: But maybe it was somebody associated with them who didn't
Speaker 9: have the full blessing of the organization signing off on
Speaker 9: their statements a theory. The third theory was that it
Speaker 9: was a hoax by the very sort of gamer gate
Speaker 9: community that you were talking about, because apparently these guys
Speaker 9: liked to wage Internet hoaxes, right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, that was a strong suspicion of mine as well,
Speaker 3: was the idea that they would cook up this. Hey,
Speaker 3: look at what the sjw's are doing to sort of
Speaker 3: drum up support and you know sort of you know,
Speaker 3: bang the gongs and get everybody up and out in
Speaker 3: arms about it, right, And this is this is a
Speaker 3: community of people. It's sort of known for pranks, known
Speaker 3: for uh, these sort of and I hate this term
Speaker 3: because that's such a weird conspiracy theorist thing, but these
Speaker 3: false flag operations and all that kind of stuff. And
Speaker 3: these guys think that this, these are the tactics that
Speaker 3: activists will use against them. Like, they think that activists
Speaker 3: are going to use these false flag tactics, and they
Speaker 3: think sjw's are like, you know, faking nine to eleven
Speaker 3: to you know, get the Patriot Act brought in, and
Speaker 3: like that's what some of these people think, right, So
Speaker 3: they think nothing of, well, hey, we'll fake a petition
Speaker 3: and you know, we'll doctor this whole thing up. So
Speaker 3: it's not an unexpected tactic from them. And I thought
Speaker 3: it was a distinct possibility and among a realm of possibilities.
Speaker 9: It's funny you mentioned the Patriot Act issue because I
Speaker 9: guess in theory, these libertarian types would be opposed to
Speaker 9: the Patriot Act.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's very funny. The interesting thing about these
Speaker 3: guys is that they're in many ways indistinguishable from like
Speaker 3: the really hard right wing, you know, white supremacists, like
Speaker 3: that kind of attitude, except in some really key areas.
Speaker 3: And those key areas are things like personal privacy, things
Speaker 3: like legalizing weed, things like atheism. You know, like they're
Speaker 3: all for the most part, again not very hospitable to religion,
Speaker 3: very much into the idea of legalizing dope, and very
Speaker 3: much against the idea of any kind of government intrusion
Speaker 3: into their lives, which is is very very interesting. You know,
Speaker 3: it's almost like they're a they're they're the Internet generation
Speaker 3: of the right wing. You know, they're the next iteration
Speaker 3: of what this is going to look like in the future.
Speaker 3: You have a group like gamer Gate, which is effectively
Speaker 3: leaderless right and they've made it so that there's no
Speaker 3: sort of one point of contact and there's no one
Speaker 3: unified set of beliefs. I mean, they will try and
Speaker 3: tell you that it's all about you know, ethics and
Speaker 3: video game journalism or whatever, but I mean when their
Speaker 3: actions are completely incongruent with that and they're asked to
Speaker 3: account for it, they're able to say, well, that's not
Speaker 3: really us with somebody else, And you know, because being
Speaker 3: a gamer Gator is a self identifying thing. It's very
Speaker 3: easy for them to point to anybody who's behaving in
Speaker 3: a way that is unsavory and say, well, they're not
Speaker 3: one of us. Really, you know, they go, well, they're
Speaker 3: not really one of our people. So engaging with them
Speaker 3: on this level, you're presuming that you're engaging with people
Speaker 3: who want to have a discussion in good faith, right,
Speaker 3: people who are actually there to have a debate, and
Speaker 3: people who are actually there who are are not just
Speaker 3: going to be sort of advocating for their own position,
Speaker 3: but in fact listening to yours and trying to find
Speaker 3: ways to find common ground and find things that we
Speaker 3: can agree to work on together. And unfortunately, gamer Gate
Speaker 3: seems pathologically incapable of working with other people because they
Speaker 3: demand this level of ideological purity, right, like you have
Speaker 3: to be ideologically aligned with what we think, or else
Speaker 3: you are out. There's no like, we're not going to
Speaker 3: talk about it, We're not going to have a little debate.
Speaker 3: It's you are either on this end of the spectrum
Speaker 3: or you're out of it. You know, you don't get
Speaker 3: to participate. So while on one hand, I think it
Speaker 3: would be amazing to be able to try and bring
Speaker 3: some of these groups together and have them talk and
Speaker 3: hopefully find a better an understanding of each other. I
Speaker 3: just don't see it happening with the current structure that
Speaker 3: these groups are using now. Anyway.
Speaker 9: It's funny because you're saying that the gamergases are inflexible
Speaker 9: and despise views contrary to their own.
Speaker 3: But this is absolutely but this.
Speaker 9: Is their essential complaint with the so called sjw's it is.
Speaker 3: It absolutely is. And that's the bizarre perverse thing about
Speaker 3: it is that you know, they're very, very very angry
Speaker 3: about criticism of their games and criticism of gamer culture,
Speaker 3: but to the point where you're excluded, you know, like
Speaker 3: we don't even want to hear it, and they see
Speaker 3: it as just utter blasphemy, like no way, we will
Speaker 3: not tolerate it, and we will. We will get advertisers
Speaker 3: to pull their money out, and you know, if news
Speaker 3: outlets write thing bad things about us, we will have
Speaker 3: you know, letter writing campaigns and harassment campaigns and all
Speaker 3: this kind of stuff, right to shut those people down
Speaker 3: and to try and influence the public discourse towards a
Speaker 3: positive image of gamer gait. But it's a positive image
Speaker 3: that almost can't exist because of the nature of their
Speaker 3: actions and because of the nature of the people that
Speaker 3: they associate with, you know, just by virtue of being
Speaker 3: on the same end of the ideological spectrum. Right when
Speaker 3: you're that far into the extremities of the right wing
Speaker 3: libertarian worldview, the other people standing with you at that
Speaker 3: pole are a certain type.
Speaker 9: And this brings another important point and a reflection I
Speaker 9: had looking at that poster and thinking about it. There's
Speaker 9: sort of two worlds happening in parallel. There's the grown
Speaker 9: up world where corporations and private businesses and governments and
Speaker 9: so on do whatever they're doing in the Amazon, and
Speaker 9: the response to that are the activist groups who have
Speaker 9: funding and they're growing ups, and they do campaigns and
Speaker 9: they get in there and they have actions against governments
Speaker 9: and they do whatever they can to sort of address
Speaker 9: those issues. But then there's the reflection of that world
Speaker 9: and what is essentially the children's world. The children's world
Speaker 9: where people fight about these issues on the Internet between
Speaker 9: video gamers and Twitter windurers.
Speaker 3: Right, people who still think there's an argument about whether
Speaker 3: racism is okay or not, or people who still think
Speaker 3: there's an argument about whether our current climate of capitalism
Speaker 3: is a good idea or not, you.
Speaker 9: Know, children exactly, essentially children. And I think it's really
Speaker 9: telling that Eli's focus in terms of the global issues
Speaker 9: of play here skews towards the children. His global view
Speaker 9: is based on how children are arguing about these ideas
Speaker 9: on the fucking Internet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty telling that the perspectives that Eli Roth
Speaker 3: is choosing to use his marketing campaign to elevate are
Speaker 3: not perhaps the more mature perspectives of you know, actual
Speaker 3: you know, non government organizations, you know, activists and indigenous
Speaker 3: people who are actually working on the ground in these situations,
Speaker 3: and instead is looking towards this sort of insulated, immature
Speaker 3: world of people who are really wrapped up in their
Speaker 3: self image as seeing themselves as dispossessed white men largely,
Speaker 3: who feel as if they've had all this stuff taken
Speaker 3: away from them, you know, who feel as if they've
Speaker 3: lost their their premissy, you know, and they're kind of
Speaker 3: wondering what happened? Why can't I call people fags anymore?
Speaker 14: You know?
Speaker 3: What do you mean? I can't call women pussies? What
Speaker 3: do you mean? You know, it's this outrage. It's like
Speaker 3: I used to be able to say whatever I want.
Speaker 3: I used to be able to do whatever I want,
Speaker 3: you know, I used to be able to get to
Speaker 3: make rape jokes and nobody cringed, you know, and people
Speaker 3: didn't judge me for it. And now all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: you know, I'm having to hear all these perspectives from
Speaker 3: minorities that I didn't really have to hear anymore, you know,
Speaker 3: because they weren't around. They're not on television, they're not
Speaker 3: on you know, the mainstream news, and they're not on
Speaker 3: all these outlets that we control that these you know,
Speaker 3: straight white men largely control. So on the Internet, all
Speaker 3: of a sudden, man, I got to hear all this
Speaker 3: stuff from gays and lesbians and transgendered people and you know,
Speaker 3: black people, Indigenous people, you know, all kinds of people
Speaker 3: all over the place with their inspectives and people who
Speaker 3: have really have one thing in common and in that
Speaker 3: they have been marginalized by white Western culture have been
Speaker 3: shut out of these conversations. And instead of seeing this
Speaker 3: ability for these people to join the global conversation on
Speaker 3: the same level playing field as everyone else on the internet,
Speaker 3: instead of seeing that as a positive thing. They see
Speaker 3: that as a diminishment of their premissy in the world,
Speaker 3: and it fills them with just absolute fear. It's sad,
Speaker 3: I mean, at heart, it's a very sad thing. Because
Speaker 3: as much as I hate to say that, I don't
Speaker 3: think all, you know, as much as it's easy to
Speaker 3: say all these people are all idiot douchebags, I don't
Speaker 3: think they are. I think they're just people who don't
Speaker 3: know where their place in the world is. And they're scared,
Speaker 3: and they're lashing out, you know, and they're awfully frustrated,
Speaker 3: and they don't know what else to do. And so
Speaker 3: here they are striking out the people that they think
Speaker 3: have diminished them.
Speaker 15: Why the answers are all right here in this sculpture.
Speaker 15: Take for instance, what this represents us. Here is the
Speaker 15: struggle of the races, men's inhumanity to man. It's true,
Speaker 15: all the shining hope of a new brotherhood.
Speaker 3: See the girl has gone basship.
Speaker 7: I'm all alone.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm all alone in this house.
Speaker 24: Isn't anybody else interested in our poland standards?
Speaker 3: Our wild is come and crumbling down. The coons are coming.
Speaker 3: Cauchy twelve percent of.
Speaker 5: The population is black, there should be a lot of
Speaker 5: black families living out here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is only a beginning, but I think it's wonderful. Wonderful.
Speaker 9: Huh, Well, let's see how wonderful it is when a
Speaker 9: watermelon Ryan's come flying on the way. So this is
Speaker 9: at the very core of what I think these groups
Speaker 9: are failing to recognize, is that there is a big
Speaker 9: difference between the kind of trials and tribute relations that
Speaker 9: these repressed groups face and why they feel they need
Speaker 9: to have a voice, and why now with the Internet
Speaker 9: they have one. Like when you made a cannibal movie
Speaker 9: in the eighties, who was going to complain about it?
Speaker 9: They didn't have a voice.
Speaker 3: Now they do exactly.
Speaker 9: And it's this failure to and again with the youth
Speaker 9: culture when we're talking about anyone under the age of
Speaker 9: twenty five, because apparently the human brain takes twenty five
Speaker 9: years to properly develop, you don't have all the mechanisms
Speaker 9: in place. You can't really think compassionately very easily, especially
Speaker 9: when you're a young male and you just filled with testosterone.
Speaker 9: It really does cloud your judgment. And I see, like
Speaker 9: you sent me links to some of these discussions that
Speaker 9: were happening in places like Reddit, and I really see
Speaker 9: this mentality there, and I actually understand the mentality because
Speaker 9: I connected to it myself. You know, I grew up
Speaker 9: as a kid in the seventies and my big hero
Speaker 9: was Said Vicious from the Sex Pistols. And what was
Speaker 9: Said Vicious famous for, amongst many things, he'd walk around
Speaker 9: with a swastika T shirt on in post war Britain,
Speaker 9: one generation after we'd been bombed by the Germans and
Speaker 9: people died horrendously and everyone knew someone who died, or
Speaker 9: we came from a whole generation of men who fought
Speaker 9: in World War II against Hitler. Sid Vicious in nineteen
Speaker 9: seventy seven whilst around England with a brazen swastika on
Speaker 9: his T shirt. Now, I don't believe Sid Vicious was
Speaker 9: particularly a fan of the Nazi movement. Who knows, I
Speaker 9: don't think so. He was a kid anyway, he probably
Speaker 9: never really thought through it. But the impulse was coming
Speaker 9: from just being so antagonistic to the moral guardians of society,
Speaker 9: who was a youthful rebellion, spitting in the face of
Speaker 9: the people telling him how he should behave. And I
Speaker 9: see that with these kids on the internet, and they're
Speaker 9: sentiments because they seem to just viciously hate anyone that
Speaker 9: demonstrates any sensitivity or compassion. They'll just rip them to shreds.
Speaker 9: So if you're on the internet doing a hashtag going oh,
Speaker 9: we gotta stop hating the poor little babies in Rwanda
Speaker 9: or whatever, they'll descend on you like a pack of
Speaker 9: walls and rip you to pieces because they delight in
Speaker 9: the merciless lack of compassion. And again, it's a youth thing.
Speaker 9: We're talking about brains that haven't fully developed. So if
Speaker 9: anyone under the age of twenty five is listening to this,
Speaker 9: keep that in mind. Your brain isn't fully awaken yet.
Speaker 9: So before you act and make any decisions, spend a
Speaker 9: bit of time just dating, reflecting to compensate for that
Speaker 9: lack of neural development.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think your example is really really act with
Speaker 3: said vicious and the swastika, and they're just big like
Speaker 3: fuck you, you know everybody, right, I mean, that's what
Speaker 3: that was about. It wasn't an expression of national socialism.
Speaker 3: It was an expression of fuck anybody who tells me
Speaker 3: I can't do this right, And I mean that speaks
Speaker 3: to me as well, you know, like the sex pistols
Speaker 3: totally spoke to me, you know, and still do to
Speaker 3: this day. So I get where this comes from. And
Speaker 3: the interesting thing is a lot of you have to
Speaker 3: understand that where where this started, where this movement sort
Speaker 3: of sprang from. I was a website called four Chan,
Speaker 3: and you know, I was a I've been paying attention
Speaker 3: to what's going on on four Chan for a long
Speaker 3: long time. I used to regularly visit the site around
Speaker 3: you know, I don't know, the early two thousands, and
Speaker 3: I saw this come up, and the early people who
Speaker 3: posted on four Chan practiced this sort of ironic hatred
Speaker 3: right where it's like, we're going to use the most
Speaker 3: awful terms possible, and we're going to speak about people
Speaker 3: in the most disgusting terms possible, where you can use racist,
Speaker 3: awful terms, and we're gonna use bigoted, homophobic, you know,
Speaker 3: language all over the place, and we're gonna do it.
Speaker 3: Why not because we feel this way, but because fuck you,
Speaker 3: that's why, you know. And there was a very sort
Speaker 3: of punk rock very much. You know, you're not gonna
Speaker 3: tell us how we're allowed to communicate, and we're going
Speaker 3: to recontextualize all this stuff, and it was it was
Speaker 3: wanting to be transgressive, you know, and you really very
Speaker 3: much got the sense that this was an outlet for people.
Speaker 3: This was a way for people who were basically fucking
Speaker 3: living in cubicles and city corporate jobs, or otherwise feeling
Speaker 3: sort of downtrodden by a society to sort of push
Speaker 3: back against it a bit. And unfortunately, what we've learned
Speaker 3: is that ironic hate only really seems to provide shelter
Speaker 3: for real hate, right because drop the single biggest sin
Speaker 3: you could commit onfourtune was dropping the act and actually
Speaker 3: being sincere right.
Speaker 9: So you couldn't you couldn't come out and say you're
Speaker 9: a faggot.
Speaker 3: And then when somebody was like, hey man, you know
Speaker 3: that hurt my feelings, well, first of all, even to me,
Speaker 3: that hurt your feelings, forget it. You're going to get
Speaker 3: ripped apart. But then if you if someone would apologize
Speaker 3: and say, oh, you know what, I'm really not a bigot.
Speaker 3: You know, I'm using that word because I'm just trying
Speaker 3: to be transgressive, and you know, this is this is
Speaker 3: all just a big show. You couldn't do that. That
Speaker 3: was strictly forbidden you know, that was not part of
Speaker 3: the playbook. Part of the playbook was sticking to the
Speaker 3: script and making all the people who visited that site
Speaker 3: convinced that this was some insane, crazy place on the
Speaker 3: Internet where anything could happen, and it was this wild,
Speaker 3: anarchic place, and because of that, it provided this perfect
Speaker 3: shelter for people who actually did have bigoted opinions to
Speaker 3: come and express them completely freely, completely openly, and not
Speaker 3: only not be shouted down for them, but be congratulated,
Speaker 3: encouraged and validated. And you put that in a pressure
Speaker 3: cooker for a decade, and now you have a site
Speaker 3: like reddit. You know, twentieth largest website in the world.
Speaker 3: It's also considered now by the Southern Poverty Law Center
Speaker 3: to be the fastest growing hate site on the planet.
Speaker 3: You know, there are groups within Reddit who have been
Speaker 3: specifically identified by the Southern Poverty Law Center as potential
Speaker 3: hate groups and active hate groups. You've got you know,
Speaker 3: these gamergators posting on their you know, they have their
Speaker 3: own subreddits. The same people, though, are also posting on
Speaker 3: other subreddits like coon Town, which is a completely openly
Speaker 3: racist shithole where people openly you know, denigrate black people.
Speaker 3: You know, it's some of the most awful, vile racism
Speaker 3: we've seen, and it is actively encouraged by the Reddit
Speaker 3: community and seen as a legitimate part of a spectrum
Speaker 3: of free speech, you know. And then so their rights
Speaker 3: to basically act like bigots and shout down minorities on
Speaker 3: the site are protected as well. They're free to do so. Well,
Speaker 3: that's the price of free speech is you have to
Speaker 3: deal with you have to deal with bigotry. And we're
Speaker 3: not going to try and maybe discourage that in our community.
Speaker 3: We're going to let it flourish. And so from coon Town,
Speaker 3: you've got people connected to sites like the Daily Stormer.
Speaker 3: And the Daily Stormer is a news website. It's all,
Speaker 3: you know, sort of white power, extreme right wing news,
Speaker 3: if you can call it that. And we now know
Speaker 3: that Dylan Roof, the Charleston shooter, was an active poster
Speaker 3: on the Daily Stormer and may have also been a
Speaker 3: poster on coon Town. So what we're seeing here is
Speaker 3: this ironic online hate that nobody really took seriously a
Speaker 3: decade ago is now real hate that's recruiting real, dangerous, dispossessed,
Speaker 3: disaffected people to its cause. And who are actually going
Speaker 3: out into the real world and committing actual violence upon people.
Speaker 3: And it's that confluence of events that makes marketing to
Speaker 3: these people in my mind, dangerous and so irresponsible, you know,
Speaker 3: because let's not forget that, you know, coontown all this
Speaker 3: white supremacist stuff. They don't really have the highest opinion
Speaker 3: of Jews either. Popular sight on there was called you know,
Speaker 3: forgive me for saying it, but there was a popular
Speaker 3: subredit for a long time called gas the Kikes, you know,
Speaker 3: and there was significant overlap. They've done really extensive studies
Speaker 3: of this, and there's significant overlap between people posting and
Speaker 3: gamer Gate related science, people posting in coon Town, people
Speaker 3: posting in sights like gas the Caikes. There's another site
Speaker 3: called the goyam No and it's just full of awful, awful, awful,
Speaker 3: just anti Semitic stereotypes and awful awful, just the most
Speaker 3: bigoted language you could use against Jews. Imaginable. So to
Speaker 3: imagine that here's these people being courted and marketed to
Speaker 3: when they're actually part of a core of online hatred
Speaker 3: that is killing people and driving women into hiding and
Speaker 3: harassing people, you know, right off the internet. Harassing people
Speaker 3: right out of any sort of public spaces where they
Speaker 3: might feel safe. I mean, that's what these people are
Speaker 3: up to. And so that's why when you see them
Speaker 3: being marketed to by somebody, you've got to understand that
Speaker 3: that's either somebody who has no idea who the hell
Speaker 3: it is that they're trying to woo, or they know
Speaker 3: exactly who it is they're trying to woo. And I
Speaker 3: guess that's really the question, right, does he lrov understand
Speaker 3: who he's coming after here? Do does he understand the
Speaker 3: people that he is trying to get onto his side,
Speaker 3: or is he getting involved in something that he's way
Speaker 3: out of his depth on.
Speaker 9: Well, the funny thing about Eli and these gamergates is
Speaker 9: some of the links that you sent me to I
Speaker 9: went on there and they were saying things like, you
Speaker 9: know what, even though he's a Jew, I guess he's
Speaker 9: okay because he hates the SJWs. So I guess he's okay.
Speaker 9: I'll give him him a pass on that. So, and
Speaker 9: the other thing is another guy was saying, it's kind
Speaker 9: of creepy that a grown up is using the term sjw's,
Speaker 9: isn't it. So it's like all these kids almost snickering
Speaker 9: about Eli, the fact that he's Jewish, the fact that
Speaker 9: he's a grown up. And I want you think about this.
Speaker 9: He's been retweeting some of these like twenty year old
Speaker 9: video gamers renting about the sjuws and so on. He's
Speaker 9: a forty three year old man, he's retweeting games like
Speaker 9: that's his perspective. I want you to think about that
Speaker 9: for a minute. And jes State.
Speaker 11: Social justice warriors of the world, here's a little bit
Speaker 11: of advice from Alpha Maga said. If you're so offended
Speaker 11: by everything, how about this, go to a fucking island
Speaker 11: with all the other fucking social justice warriors on a
Speaker 11: little collectivists, all your motherfuckers that are just so easily
Speaker 11: offended and bothered by everything, and sit on that island
Speaker 11: and do nothing but torture one another because nobody wants
Speaker 11: to hear you, nobody wants to see nobody wants to
Speaker 11: deal with you, nobody.
Speaker 25: Even wants to have you the fuck around, because you
Speaker 25: pollute the goddamn environment with your idiocy that is running
Speaker 25: rampant and never fucking ending.
Speaker 9: So, getting back to the petition, given the fact that
Speaker 9: there was so many obviously weird, suspicious things potentially about it.
Speaker 9: I was really surprised, disheartened. Actually, in a way, I
Speaker 9: wasn't surprised, because I've grown to have absolutely no faith
Speaker 9: in this as a culture of journalism. Absolutely, I don't
Speaker 9: think you have either, No No, So I guess I
Speaker 9: wasn't surprised, but I was disheartened to see that none
Speaker 9: of the horror sites that I went to that were
Speaker 9: picking up the story even questioned the legitimacy of the petition.
Speaker 9: You know, the number one horror sites obviously is bloody disgust.
Speaker 9: And they're far from the only ones who ran with
Speaker 9: this without questioning it. But they did. And the article
Speaker 9: was called some idiot is petitioning for the Green and
Speaker 9: Fear and No to be boycotted. And I was written
Speaker 9: by a bloke named Jonathan Barkin, And he goes on
Speaker 9: to say A few days ago, director Eli Roth spoke
Speaker 9: about his upcoming cannibal horror film The Green and Feno
Speaker 9: in an interview, explaining that the characters we'd be seeing
Speaker 9: on screen where caricatures of Sjaw's those people online who
Speaker 9: find a fence at every single little thing and seemingly
Speaker 9: don't find anything in life to enjoy. While cannibal films
Speaker 9: never really interested me. Roth's comments shot the Green and
Speaker 9: Phano to the top of my must see list because
Speaker 9: those people irritate the hell out of me. And this
Speaker 9: is the common sentiment that you see basically with everyone
Speaker 9: who picked up the story and commented on a petition.
Speaker 9: He goes on to say, as if on cue and
Speaker 9: in a shockingly ironic move, a petition has been created
Speaker 9: by these sjw's to have the film boycotted, if not
Speaker 9: outright canceled. So here's the thing, and here's the problem.
Speaker 9: If we accept the petition of face value that it's
Speaker 9: a statement from Amazon Watch, they are legitimately equating Amazon
Speaker 9: Watch with slacktivists. Again, real activism with slack divism, adults
Speaker 9: with children. These are the kind of confused parallels that
Speaker 9: Elias set up with his marketing campaign.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they don't seem to understand that like Amazon Watch
Speaker 3: is a legitimate non government organization, that it's not you know,
Speaker 3: a bunch of you know, it's not a bunch of
Speaker 3: you know, hipsters and skinny jeans, you know, tweeting about
Speaker 3: stuff on their iPhones. These are people doing legitimate work
Speaker 3: in a very legitimate field.
Speaker 9: And the other thing that bothers me is first of all,
Speaker 9: not questioning its legitimacy. And it's obviously you know, even
Speaker 9: the fans in the comments are going, dude, it's obviously
Speaker 9: marketing hype. But they're not reaching out to Amazon for
Speaker 9: a statement to verify the legitimacy of the petition. Why
Speaker 9: not just make a phone call? Why not write an email?
Speaker 9: These guys are on the internet.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and these are people who ostensibly want to call
Speaker 3: themselves journalists, and at every turn, well we'll try and
Speaker 3: you know, convince people that they should be taken seriously
Speaker 3: as writers and journalists. And yet they seem to just
Speaker 3: want to uncritically reprint whatever sort of put in front
Speaker 3: of them. And they're not showing any interest whatsoever into
Speaker 3: getting into this story behind the story. And actually, I
Speaker 3: don't know being a reporter.
Speaker 9: Another thing that I saw in one instance after another
Speaker 9: after another. Now Bloody discussed and actually did go to
Speaker 9: the trouble of reprinting the content of the petition, but
Speaker 9: there's no commentary of substance about anything in the petition,
Speaker 9: the statement attributed to Amazon Watch. It was just all
Speaker 9: railing against the fact that somebody was calling for a boycott. So,
Speaker 9: because nobody has addressed the substance of that statement, I'm
Speaker 9: going to read it now so that we can think
Speaker 9: on it and let it ges date for a minute. Yes,
Speaker 9: the statement says, films like this have always portrayed negative
Speaker 9: stereotypes against Indigenous people as brute savages. These films have
Speaker 9: psychological effect as Indigenous people have been through colonial trauma,
Speaker 9: assimilate into white culture, being taught self hate Westerners or
Speaker 9: on un fortunately ignorant about Amazonian Indigenous cultures and depicting
Speaker 9: them in such a violent story dehumanizes their peoples and
Speaker 9: couldn't be father from reality. Shame on you as a storyteller.
Speaker 9: You hold a great responsibility to influence others. Propagating such
Speaker 9: hate towards peoples who have been ravaged and raped for
Speaker 9: decades by white supremacist culture is not constructive in our
Speaker 9: fight to save the Amazon. Most Indigenous communities are more
Speaker 9: in tune with nature than you'll ever be and would
Speaker 9: never conceive of such violence for profit. It's a shame.
Speaker 9: We should be creating stories that accurately depict Indigenous way
Speaker 9: of life, which is holistic, sustainable, spiritual, and harmonious with
Speaker 9: our earth and brothers and sisters, If you want to
Speaker 9: save the Amazon and stop China from buying leases to
Speaker 9: drill oil, make a story depicting the corporate shills for
Speaker 9: the murderers that they really are. You don't have to
Speaker 9: create racist, offensive, inaccurate crap to get people to care
Speaker 9: about the most biodiverased place on the earth. And if
Speaker 9: you really want to make a difference, give your money
Speaker 9: to organizations like us who are the people on the
Speaker 9: ground standing up for indigenous rights and making tangible change.
Speaker 9: Indigenous peoples are the key to preserving the Amazon. If
Speaker 9: we don't respect and empower them, we will lose the
Speaker 9: lungs of our planet. They should be honored and respected.
Speaker 9: Amazon watch.
Speaker 3: Those noted SJW slacktivists. Amazon watch. And this really is
Speaker 3: where the incoherence starts to culminate, Right, It all starts
Speaker 3: to come to a head. The entire nonsensical Native sure
Speaker 3: of this marketing campaign, right is are they really going
Speaker 3: after a group like this who is making a very
Speaker 3: real difference or are they going after hipsters?
Speaker 9: Right?
Speaker 3: I mean, this is this is what it comes down to.
Speaker 3: They're trying to make these people the equivalent of those
Speaker 3: fucking asshole hipsters that nobody can stand.
Speaker 9: If Eli's behind this petition as a marketing store, we
Speaker 9: don't know. I mean, alls we know at this point
Speaker 9: is that nothing about this petition shows up anywhere on
Speaker 9: Amazon Watch, and none of the horror sites reporting on
Speaker 9: it have bothered to look into the source of it.
Speaker 9: Not just the horror sites, but bigger news organizations. Too.
Speaker 9: Bright Butts, the super hardcore right wing libertarian news site,
Speaker 9: picked up the story with the title enough entire entertainment
Speaker 9: industry says no more to social justice warry.
Speaker 3: Is I don't know, when you know Eli Roth became
Speaker 3: the entire entertainment industry? You know like that, I mean
Speaker 3: it's hyperboly right off the bat, but yeah, it's great.
Speaker 9: Well, they mentioned all the comedians and stuff in context
Speaker 9: of that article, so they're just making a case that,
Speaker 9: you know, Hollywood's coming out to speak out against the SGWS,
Speaker 9: but interestingly Eli Roth is becoming their poster boy. So
Speaker 9: talk about that article, like, describe the article and who
Speaker 9: wrote the article and what your impressions of it were.
Speaker 3: So right away, it's funny because as soon as this
Speaker 3: article sort of popped up on my radar, you know,
Speaker 3: I saw it was Breitbart, and I you know, so
Speaker 3: obviously it's like, oh boy, Breitbart, Okay, huge, you know,
Speaker 3: right wing site. You kind of know what you're about
Speaker 3: to get into. And then you click on it and
Speaker 3: you see the byline. And the byline is extremely important
Speaker 3: because one of the authors is Milo Janopolis. And I
Speaker 3: hope that I'm not you know, butchering his name too badly.
Speaker 3: But he is a extremely well known figure in the
Speaker 3: gamer gate community. He's a journalist for Breitbart who has
Speaker 3: largely used his position at Breitbart to amplify the gamer
Speaker 3: gate message. He's written all kinds of articles about gamer
Speaker 3: Gate and about gamer Gate issues and the whole anti
Speaker 3: SJW movement and the entire sort of free speech absolutist movement,
Speaker 3: which all these things sort of get tied up into.
Speaker 3: So Milo is not just sort of some bystander. Milo
Speaker 3: is somebody who's actively trying to help create a media
Speaker 3: narrative of gamer Gate being this popular movement for ethics
Speaker 3: and to fight against the oppressive scourge of you know,
Speaker 3: the sjaws. And so he's attempting, in a way to
Speaker 3: create these heroes for they might and to show that, yes,
Speaker 3: Hollywood supports us. You know, the creative industries are behind us.
Speaker 3: You know, they support our concepts of free speech, and
Speaker 3: they support the fact that we want to have subredits
Speaker 3: called gas the Caykes and you know all that stuff.
Speaker 3: It gets I mean, it gets really crazy when you
Speaker 3: start observing it and understanding who is putting this message
Speaker 3: out and what their motives are.
Speaker 9: He goes on to say, seemingly determined to prove rothriights.
Speaker 9: A change dot org petition has called on the director
Speaker 9: to cancel the launch of the Green Infano on the
Speaker 9: grounds that it dehumanizes Indigenous people. But the petition looks
Speaker 9: like damage control to prevent dehumanizing undignified sjw's again another
Speaker 9: journalist not questioning the petition and castigating this group. And
Speaker 9: you know, because it's convenient, because it supports their that
Speaker 9: this would be a legitimate cry of outrage, and because
Speaker 9: it reveals the horrible nature of the sgw's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Milo's involvement here. I mean, this was definitely
Speaker 3: another signal that hold on a minute, things are not
Speaker 3: all what they seem here. You know, like there's something
Speaker 3: hinky about this petition. There's something kinky about this whole story,
Speaker 3: because if Milo's involved, you just kind of know that
Speaker 3: there's something else going on. And when I saw this,
Speaker 3: I was pretty convinced at that point that, Yep, I'm
Speaker 3: pretty sure that this petition was probably some kind of
Speaker 3: you know eight chan, you know, something cooked up in irc,
Speaker 3: something cooked up in eight chan by these you know,
Speaker 3: gamer Gate and NTSJW types, this sort of false flag
Speaker 3: operation they'd like to set up. As soon as I
Speaker 3: saw Milo pumping this story, I thought, man, here it is,
Speaker 3: you know, because he's the usual mouthpiece they sort of
Speaker 3: feed things too, and he brings them out into a
Speaker 3: larger media, so I thought, for sure that's what we
Speaker 3: were looking at.
Speaker 9: He does go on to make some interesting points that
Speaker 9: are worth discussing. He mentions a situation that happened on
Speaker 9: Twitter when a woman named Suie Park went on a
Speaker 9: rampage against Colbert because she believed Colbert was making racist
Speaker 9: jokes on Twitter, and what happened was as a satirical
Speaker 9: response to something the Washington Redskins said Colbert made a joke.
Speaker 9: He said, I am willing to show the Asian community
Speaker 9: that I care by introducing the Ching Chung Ding Dong
Speaker 9: Foundation for Sensitivity to Orientals or whatever, which is obviously
Speaker 9: it's a funny joke, but they took it out of context.
Speaker 9: They put it on Twitter and not I guess, fully
Speaker 9: understanding the context. This young Asian American woman saw it
Speaker 9: as a racist joke, went on a rampage, did a
Speaker 9: cancel Colbert. She was all over the internet. Apparently everyone
Speaker 9: hates on it for doing this, and obviously that was
Speaker 9: an hysterical response. And I think everyone who hates the
Speaker 9: sjw's because it's just a popular sentiment in the culture
Speaker 9: at large.
Speaker 3: They hate that.
Speaker 9: They don't want to have people just flying off the
Speaker 9: handle calling for censorship, calling for things to be shut down,
Speaker 9: and I don't support that either. I don't support the
Speaker 9: petition against the movie. I don't support canceling Colbert for
Speaker 9: making a very pointed satirical view, of course, But because
Speaker 9: I guess I'm over the age of twenty five of
Speaker 9: my brain has developed. I can look at things from
Speaker 9: another point of view, and I can imagine the frustration
Speaker 9: that maybe a young Asian American woman might feel growing
Speaker 9: up in a culture where, for the most part, it's
Speaker 9: only fairly recently that Asians were starting to demonstrate a
Speaker 9: more kind of diverse depiction in American culture, like in
Speaker 9: the last like five years. I think.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the progress has been like very recent, I think,
Speaker 3: and it's still it's still nowhere where it needs to be, right,
Speaker 3: I mean this, the popular perception is still you know, oh,
Speaker 3: you do karate and you know that kind of stuff, right,
Speaker 3: it's ridiculous, Right, Imagine living with that. Imagine growing up
Speaker 3: your whole life and it's it's chopsak, kung fu, chopsticks, meat, Chinese,
Speaker 3: you know, sideways vagina like like just imagine, you know,
Speaker 3: like that's your whole bloody life coming up.
Speaker 9: Yeah, and you grow up with one depiction after another. Way,
Speaker 9: especially women, there's two stereotypes. There's the subcessive sex slave.
Speaker 9: There's also then the dragon lady, the exotic temptress, and
Speaker 9: also the fact that she may have even been called
Speaker 9: ching Chung ding dong growing up as a kid. Now,
Speaker 9: I remember when Dexter came out, there was so much
Speaker 9: talk about like the character of Musaka as an agent,
Speaker 9: Paerson having the particular attributes that he has, and he
Speaker 9: said in an interview, going you know, people aren't used
Speaker 9: to see an Asians being like the way I am,
Speaker 9: being funny and being kind of pervated, you know, young
Speaker 9: Asian men like this. It's a kind of a leap
Speaker 9: forward in terms of depicting a more diverse face to
Speaker 9: that culture. So while it's preposterous and silly to call
Speaker 9: for Colbert to stop because of making a racist joke,
Speaker 9: you have to appreciate maybe the sum of the sentiment
Speaker 9: behind that, the sensitivity, because it's not unjustified.
Speaker 26: Here's what happened to me last Wednesday. I saluted Washington
Speaker 26: Redskins owner Daniel Snyder for his new charity, the Washington
Speaker 26: Redskins Original Americans Foundation, which some have called an obvious
Speaker 26: attempt to win over Native Americans because it only uses
Speaker 26: the term Redskins once in its name. Anyway, I was
Speaker 26: so inspired by Nan Snyder's charitable outreach that I formed
Speaker 26: my own charity, the Ching Chong Ding Dong Foundation for
Speaker 26: Sensitivity to Orientals or whatever.
Speaker 9: That was Wednesday.
Speaker 26: Then around seven o'clock on Thursday, my network's promotional Twitter
Speaker 26: account at Colbert Rapport twitted the name of my foundation
Speaker 26: without providing a video link to the original segment or
Speaker 26: mentioning that I was inspired by the Redskins charity. I mean,
Speaker 26: who would have thought a means of communication limited to
Speaker 26: one hundred and forty characters would ever create misunderstanding?
Speaker 9: Then after that, after that.
Speaker 26: When the twit hit the fan, the brain trust over
Speaker 26: at my network took the tweet down, because that's how
Speaker 26: the Internet works. You can just take stuff down and
Speaker 26: no one will ever know what happened. Just ask Mari Wiener. Now,
Speaker 26: I'm not trying to throw anyone under the bus here,
Speaker 26: mostly because I don't go that close to public transportation.
Speaker 26: But when I saw the tweet with no context, I
Speaker 26: understood how people were offended the same way I, as
Speaker 26: an Irish American, was offended after reading only one line
Speaker 26: of Jonathan Swift's a modest proposal, I mean, eat Irish babies.
Speaker 26: Hashtag cancel Swift trend it.
Speaker 23: Now.
Speaker 26: Now, all of this was started by a hashtag activist
Speaker 26: or hashtivist who has been viciously attacked on Twitter. And
Speaker 26: if anyone is doing that for me, I want you
Speaker 26: to stop right now. She's just speaking her mind, and
Speaker 26: that's what Twitter's for, as well as ruining the ending
Speaker 26: of every show I haven't seen Yet now, to recap,
Speaker 26: a web editor i've never met posts a tweet in
Speaker 26: my name on an account I don't control, outrage is
Speaker 26: a hashtag activist and the news media gets seventy two
Speaker 26: hours of content.
Speaker 3: The system worked.
Speaker 9: And again though, this goes back to that point of
Speaker 9: the fact that this is a child responding to an
Speaker 9: issue without really thinking through and the people hating on
Speaker 9: her children. And you know, adults can have these discussions
Speaker 9: and examine these things, and Eli isn't in that vein
Speaker 9: of where the adults are talking about it. He's in
Speaker 9: the children's vein. So what does he do with this
Speaker 9: bright bar piece. He goes running to his Facebook page,
Speaker 9: posting it, blasting it out on the Green and Fano
Speaker 9: Facebook page with the title no more Social Justice Warriors.
Speaker 9: Read the article below and like if you agree that
Speaker 9: this needs to stop. He's effectively turning the social justice
Speaker 9: warriors into a political cause that people need to rally against. Effectively,
Speaker 9: what he's asking his supporters to do is engage in slacktivism,
Speaker 9: the very thing that he claims he's criticizing. The slacktivists
Speaker 9: aka the activists who out there in the Amazon trying
Speaker 9: to do something about the issue. I mean, this guy's
Speaker 9: politics is so fucking befuddled. In his desperate attempt to
Speaker 9: market a two year old movie, he's appealing to game
Speaker 9: agates who begrudgingly accept them even though he's Jewish. He's
Speaker 9: amplifying neo Nazis.
Speaker 3: But that's the most disturbing part of this, you know,
Speaker 3: is that by amplifying Milo's work in that way and
Speaker 3: validating Milo's work in that way, they're validating his readership.
Speaker 3: They're validating the people who are reading his stuff and
Speaker 3: getting worked into a frenzy and who are tweeting this
Speaker 3: all over the place, and who are going, yeah, fucking Sjw's,
Speaker 3: you know, fuck those guys. And it's really like, it's
Speaker 3: really bizarre because it's like, now we're getting into a
Speaker 3: territory where you are working to promote the people who
Speaker 3: are going to who actually want to do harm. And
Speaker 3: that's what's back link to me is how how is
Speaker 3: Eliroth using the marketing power of his name, of the
Speaker 3: name of his film, and all the esteem that he
Speaker 3: has built for himself. He's using all of that to
Speaker 3: sell movie tickets to bigots, and that should disturb anyone.
Speaker 9: So given the fact that the horror press failed yet
Speaker 9: again to respond effectively to any kind of cultural relevance
Speaker 9: of the horror genre, or do any real workers journalists,
Speaker 9: I did something what none of them seemingly did. I
Speaker 9: reached out to Amazon Watch to ask them about the petition.
Speaker 9: And I have to say it wasn't It wasn't exactly.
Speaker 9: I did a bit of work, you know, which is
Speaker 9: ironic being an ex horror journalist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought, I thought, you hung up the guns.
Speaker 9: And I'll tell you it wasn't exactly easy. I had
Speaker 9: to sort of write numerous emails, make numerous phone calls,
Speaker 9: make numerous tweets before I got any kind of response
Speaker 9: at all. The first thing I got was a statement
Speaker 9: on Twitter, and they said Amazon Watch is not affiliated
Speaker 9: with this petition. We have not formally released any statement
Speaker 9: about the film. Now, of course that's on Twitter. Something
Speaker 9: about the language. Actually suspected that Amazon Watch was somehow
Speaker 9: implicated in the petition because they're saying we haven't formally
Speaker 9: released any statement facial. Yeah, so they're not saying that
Speaker 9: isn't an Amazon what statement. They're saying it's not a
Speaker 9: formal Amazon Watch statement. So I'm thinking like two things
Speaker 9: at this point, oh, three things.
Speaker 2: Whatever.
Speaker 9: Somewhere somebody affiliated with Amazon Watch either made the petition
Speaker 9: and the group didn't want to have anything to do
Speaker 9: with it, or Eli has taken a statement they made
Speaker 9: to him and fed it to the marketing people and
Speaker 9: they've ran with the petition. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we were thinking at one point that it was
Speaker 3: like like Amazon Watched like contacted my Roth or the
Speaker 3: production office privately and said, you know, hey, here's our
Speaker 3: here's how we feel about your movie. Or they sent
Speaker 3: him a letter, you know, outlining their concerns about the film,
Speaker 3: and that that's where they got this this verbiage from them,
Speaker 3: you know, and and so it kind of thickened the plot, right,
Speaker 3: it's like, oh my goodness, this is you know, sort
Speaker 3: of taking another turn.
Speaker 9: Also, there was an update on the petition that was
Speaker 9: sort of modified a couple of times. Initially, it said,
Speaker 9: to clear up any confusion, this quotation and petition is
Speaker 9: not an official statement by Amazon Watch. This petition is
Speaker 9: created by individual activists to bring the social awareness of
Speaker 9: this film. Now, after I reached out to Amazon Watching,
Speaker 9: they made that statement. That update was modified slightly to
Speaker 9: include the phrase. Although this quote does come from their
Speaker 9: comment regarding the film. It is not an official statement. Clearly,
Speaker 9: whoever is behind that petition is in content with Amazon Watch.
Speaker 9: There's a dialogue. There's a dialogue happening behind the scenes.
Speaker 9: So at this point I think we can safely rule
Speaker 9: out that it's a game Agate hoax because they simply
Speaker 9: wouldn't have any kind of private conversations. We don't know
Speaker 9: who started the petition, but clearly Amazon Watch trying to
Speaker 9: negotiate disclaimers behind the scenes, whether it's with Eli's marketing
Speaker 9: or a rogue affiliate of the organization. Right, there was
Speaker 9: another update there that largely reprinted a huge section of
Speaker 9: an article from another website. The website is Native Max
Speaker 9: magazine and Indigenous website, and it was promoted as an
Speaker 9: update with the title why we should boycott this film?
Speaker 9: But if you click through, the title of the article
Speaker 9: wasn't that at all. It says, from Tiger Lily to
Speaker 9: Green and Ferno, why Indigenous representation in the media matters,
Speaker 9: and it proceeds to take issue with Eli's ideas. So
Speaker 9: a couple of things here. First of all, that completely
Speaker 9: violates Eli's earlier asation in this magazine article that the
Speaker 9: only people who will worry about the depiction of Indigenous
Speaker 9: people are overly concerned North Americans who want to appear concent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's overly concerned actual Indigenous people who are actually
Speaker 3: concerned about how they're going to be portrayed in the
Speaker 3: actual media. It's quite fascinating really.
Speaker 9: That article was written by a journalist named Johnny J.
Speaker 9: So I reached out again doing something more none of
Speaker 9: the work, none of the Horror press even thought to do,
Speaker 9: and said, hey, can you give me some insight onto
Speaker 9: that petition? Do you know about it? Are you involved
Speaker 9: in it? What's the story? And I got an email
Speaker 9: back she said, and it's a woman. She said. It
Speaker 9: could very well be a marketing ploy, as no one
Speaker 9: from the petition emailed or reached out to me, which
Speaker 9: is odd considering the extensive use of my article. I
Speaker 9: am on the bord of the nonprofit Not Your Mascots
Speaker 9: and we are currently working with Amazon Watch on this
Speaker 9: particular issue, and we have associates in Peru who were
Speaker 9: looking into the film production as there are very strict
Speaker 9: laws regarding contact with Indigenous people in certain areas, particularly
Speaker 9: the Cougar Pekori, Nahoa Nanti Reserve. I'm sure I massacred that,
Speaker 9: but I've never seen that written before. We're also looking
Speaker 9: into what pre and aftercare was provided for the village,
Speaker 9: since eli Roth made it very clear that they made
Speaker 9: sure medical attention was available for their crew and actors,
Speaker 9: but no mention of what was provided for the village.
Speaker 9: It's awesome you mentioned Black Lives Matters because in a
Speaker 9: recent promo for Green Inferno, they did mark Native Lives
Speaker 9: Matter and Indigenous Lives Matters, two tags Thatatives are using
Speaker 9: to discuss police brutality, the violation of treaty rights, the
Speaker 9: murdered and missing Indigenous women, the attack on the Native
Speaker 9: school children in South Dakota, as well as the genocide
Speaker 9: and force relocation of Indigenous tribes in the Amazon.
Speaker 3: It's unbelievable.
Speaker 9: So we both thought that that was just a riff
Speaker 9: on Black Lives Matter, but their real hashtags being used
Speaker 9: by Indigenous people to discuss real life shit. Murde it, genocide,
Speaker 9: force relocation, little more severe than people fucking with your
Speaker 9: video games. You know what I mean.
Speaker 27: You don't like these TV shows, you don't like these movies,
Speaker 27: you don't like these video games, you don't like these comics.
Speaker 25: You don't like this music, you'll like any of the stuff.
Speaker 25: Don't just leave, just go away. Were listening to it,
Speaker 25: quit reading it, quit playing it. Just put the shit
Speaker 25: down and shut the fuck up.
Speaker 3: Right right here and here he is putting their hashtags
Speaker 3: up and basically encouraging the kind of people who are
Speaker 3: the type to go on those hashtags and post a
Speaker 3: bunch of absolute shit because that's their mo That what
Speaker 3: these people do. It's absolutely stunning that here we are
Speaker 3: having a marketing campaign that is openly, openly putting out
Speaker 3: there these hashtags for people to subvert and abuse. It's amazing.
Speaker 9: And at this point I'm thinking, Okay, Eli doesn't know
Speaker 9: these are real indigenous hashtags, because now he's not just
Speaker 9: lampooning slacktivists. It's gone waste than confusing slacktivists with activists.
Speaker 9: Now he's going right to the very people themselves who
Speaker 9: are affected by these issues.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, exactly. It's it cuts down another level deeper
Speaker 3: where now it's not just activists. Now it's just indigenous
Speaker 3: people with twitters, you know, who want to talk about
Speaker 3: their issues that he's going to go after. Now, you know,
Speaker 3: those are the people. We really need to, you know,
Speaker 3: hold their feet to the fire and make sure they're
Speaker 3: hell to account for all their crimes against society, let
Speaker 3: me tell you.
Speaker 9: And the astonishing thing is in all of this, Eli
Speaker 9: isn't trying to get us to empathize with the genocide,
Speaker 9: the mid of the missing children, the rape, the false relocation,
Speaker 9: the exploitation of indigenous lens. He wants us to feel
Speaker 9: sorry for the fucking video game is you didn't get
Speaker 9: to see Elijah Douscu's tits in Wrong Tin. That's his
Speaker 9: big social cause that he wants people to hit like
Speaker 9: on his Facebook page over the slacktivists.
Speaker 3: Free speech for tits, pre speech for tits, pre speech
Speaker 3: for tit.
Speaker 18: So we're here with Eli Roth, director of Green Inferno,
Speaker 18: which I'm director of producer of Green Inferno, christ and
Speaker 18: co writer and co writer.
Speaker 7: I'm very excited to see this.
Speaker 18: I'm curious with all the experience you have in this genre,
Speaker 18: why did this particular strange you know, Forest World Remote,
Speaker 18: Why did that.
Speaker 5: Speak to you to write a movie that it was
Speaker 5: about modern activism where I see a lot of people
Speaker 5: want to care and they want to help, But in general,
Speaker 5: I feel like people don't really want to inconvenience their
Speaker 5: own lives. And I saw a lot of people just
Speaker 5: reacting to things on social media.
Speaker 3: You see this.
Speaker 5: Social justice warriors like this is wrong, this is wrong,
Speaker 5: this is wrong, and they're just tweeting and retweeting.
Speaker 3: They're not actually doing anything.
Speaker 5: Or you see people that get involved in a cause
Speaker 5: that they don't really know a lot about and they
Speaker 5: go crazy about it. So I wanted to make a
Speaker 5: movie about kids like that. I think there's a lot
Speaker 5: of great things obviously about activism. People commit their lives
Speaker 5: to it. But I wanted to make a story about
Speaker 5: kids that don't really know what they're getting into, get
Speaker 5: in way over their heads it actually works. And then
Speaker 5: on the way home, the iron is they're plane crashes
Speaker 5: and the very people they saved think that they're invaders
Speaker 5: and just dart them and eat them and make them
Speaker 5: the food supply the village.
Speaker 18: So green Inferno is your reaction to the sjaw's of Twitter.
Speaker 5: Yeah, my green Inferno. I actually wrote it, and when
Speaker 5: I finished the draft, Cony twenty twelve happened.
Speaker 12: I was like, this is it?
Speaker 3: Like everyone is going what's wrong with you?
Speaker 5: They're drinking with their mugs going like you don't you
Speaker 5: care about child out soldiers and kids being raped?
Speaker 3: Like how can you not tweet this video?
Speaker 15: This?
Speaker 5: Everyone got so self righteous and try like publicly shaming,
Speaker 5: and it was something that they hadn't heard of twenty
Speaker 5: four hours ago.
Speaker 3: So I think it's a double edged sword, you know.
Speaker 5: I think there are ways to get involved and ways
Speaker 5: to be helpful, but the SJW culture has gotten so
Speaker 5: out of control that you feel like everyone are they
Speaker 5: doing it because they believe in it or they just
Speaker 5: want to look like good people?
Speaker 15: You know?
Speaker 5: Are people retweeting things because they think it's important or
Speaker 5: because they want everybody to think that they're a caring person.
Speaker 5: So and I'm not, you know, making a judgment about
Speaker 5: these people either way. I'm just making a comment on it.
Speaker 18: So I want to they do get eaten by cannibal
Speaker 18: They get eaten by cannibals?
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 9: But finally on Wednesday, after waiting a couple of days
Speaker 9: after they promised to get back to me, they did
Speaker 9: promise to get back to me on the Wednesday, but
Speaker 9: that was on Monday, so I had to wait for
Speaker 9: two days while they put together a statement. Again, making
Speaker 9: me realize there was a lot more behind the scenes
Speaker 9: than I realized. I finally get an email of Amazon Watch,
Speaker 9: and this is where the incredible confluence of chonosity that
Speaker 9: is jungle Gate becomes really apparent.
Speaker 3: I mean, before we go too much further, would you
Speaker 3: have expected this, like at the outset, was this even
Speaker 3: a possibility that you considered?
Speaker 9: Well, it was it was that this email. I'll read
Speaker 9: the email because it was really what we discovered after
Speaker 9: reading the email. That's what kind of blew our minds, right,
Speaker 9: But we're definitely getting closer to the heart of jungle Gate,
Speaker 9: the horror, The horror, Hi Stewart correct. Amazon Watch has
Speaker 9: not formally released a statement about this film. We are
Speaker 9: in the process of consulting with all our indigenous partners.
Speaker 9: Once we have completed meeting with them and collecting their statements,
Speaker 9: Amazon Watch will release a formal comment. We are a
Speaker 9: small NGO that supports indigenous rights and protect the Amazon rainforest.
Speaker 9: Empowering indigenous peoples is the scientifically proven way to preserve
Speaker 9: the Amazon basin, which is so important to regulating the
Speaker 9: health of our global climate. Studies have shown that if
Speaker 9: we grant legal rights of ancestral territories back to indigenous peoples,
Speaker 9: they will defend their land and thus preserve the Amazon Basin.
Speaker 9: Honoring and respecting the rights of Indigenous peoples is of
Speaker 9: the utmost importance, as their voices are often marginalized and
Speaker 9: go unheard in modern society. As a human rights and
Speaker 9: environmental organization, our primary function is to accurately reflect the
Speaker 9: perspectives and opinions of our indigenous partners. Therefore, it is
Speaker 9: imperative that we meet with our indigenous partners before releasing
Speaker 9: a formal statement, let alone a petition. As you can imagine,
Speaker 9: most of our partners live in the rainforest and sometimes
Speaker 9: it can take a while to communicate with them. So
Speaker 9: thank you for your patients. Well, first of all, don't
Speaker 9: they know Indigenous people are going to care about this?
Speaker 9: Are you kidding me? It's only North Americans who want
Speaker 9: to appear concerned. They are going to be concerned about this.
Speaker 9: And she goes on to say that said, having worked
Speaker 9: with Indigenous peoples for nearly twenty years, Amazon Watch tends
Speaker 9: to have an accurate idea of Indigenous perspectives on numerous issues.
Speaker 9: From our research about Roth's film, we have gathered a
Speaker 9: general idea of what the film represents, and from what
Speaker 9: we know, our organization does not condone nor support this film.
Speaker 9: I believe the confusion with this Change dot org petition,
Speaker 9: which is in no way associated with Amazon Watch, began
Speaker 9: on Instagram. Eli Roth commented erroneously that Amazon Watch had
Speaker 9: seen and did support his film. Amazon Watch responded to
Speaker 9: his statement because it was untrue and was causing confusion
Speaker 9: amongst our supporters. This thread occurred on at American Indian
Speaker 9: fourteen ninety one's account, and I believe the creator of
Speaker 9: the petition is at Society Menace, although for whatever reason,
Speaker 9: that person seems to have deleted that account and is
Speaker 9: now operating privately under at Society Menace two. I'm unsure
Speaker 9: why the petition is anonymous, but I don't think it's
Speaker 9: a marketing scheme. I have requested multiple times that the
Speaker 9: creator remove mention of Amazon Watch, but they have yet
Speaker 9: to adjust the text. I have also contacted Change requesting
Speaker 9: the removal of the misattribution to our organization as it
Speaker 9: is causing an overload of press inquiries, obviously not from
Speaker 9: the horror community that are taxing on our capacity as
Speaker 9: we are a small NGO. With limited capacity. Hope that
Speaker 9: clarifies things. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Speaker 9: Thanks Jessica. So now what do we do with this information?
Speaker 9: We descend upon Instagram We ran, I mean, you know,
Speaker 9: virtually ran, like a cannibal descended on an SJW.
Speaker 3: Exactly, man, exactly.
Speaker 9: But hang on a second. If the sjw's are the
Speaker 9: indigenous people, then who are the cannibals? Are the cannibals
Speaker 9: the sjw's.
Speaker 3: Are they eating themselves?
Speaker 9: Eli's point is much more clever than we have a thought.
Speaker 3: So metaphysical. It's so metaphysical, very impressed.
Speaker 9: It's a theme within a theme within a theme.
Speaker 3: It's like inception.
Speaker 9: It's conceptual. It's like Shia Lahbouf. It's brilliant. It's like,
Speaker 9: get the social get the anti social justice warriors to
Speaker 9: turn them into slacktivists on your Facebook page. It's fucking genius.
Speaker 9: It's conceptual arts.
Speaker 3: And then we'll have the cannibals eat themselves. And because
Speaker 3: they're really the sjw's, because they don't want to be
Speaker 3: perceived badly. It's amazing. It's like it's like a snake
Speaker 3: eating its own tail. Just over and over and over again.
Speaker 3: It's beautiful.
Speaker 9: So we go over to Instagram. We dig up at
Speaker 9: Amma Indian fourteen ninety one, who seems to be a
Speaker 9: hugely popular native person there with a massive following on Instagram,
Speaker 9: and he wrote this statement. He said, asshole of the
Speaker 9: Week is writer and director of this racist stereotype of
Speaker 9: the uncivilized savage Indian movie by Eli Roth. Summary bunch
Speaker 9: of why people are heading to the Amazon in their
Speaker 9: private jet to play white Savior when all of a sudden,
Speaker 9: the plane goes crashing down in the middle of the
Speaker 9: Amazon rainforest. An unknown tribe then starts to hunt them
Speaker 9: down and begins to commit human cannibalism. All this movie
Speaker 9: will do is dehumanize people who are really ones being
Speaker 9: hunted down by oil companies. They are the ones being
Speaker 9: killed every day by oil companies and the government that
Speaker 9: backs them up. They are the organization trying to help
Speaker 9: protect the Amazon people from these evil corporations. They need
Speaker 9: all the help they can get. With a movie like this,
Speaker 9: people will take this as factual and truly believe Amazon
Speaker 9: Indians are savages and uncivilized, which can't be fair from
Speaker 9: the truth. Again, this is what we talked about before,
Speaker 9: the sort of colonial representation of local tribes as hopelessly
Speaker 9: barbaric to help fuel imperialist conquests.
Speaker 3: We have to civilize them, We have to make them
Speaker 3: civilized people.
Speaker 9: Thousands of people go to the Amazon every year to
Speaker 9: meet these beautiful people, are people that still live with
Speaker 9: nature as one. They go there to get away from
Speaker 9: the so called civilized will, to get peace and clarity.
Speaker 9: Yet they are always discriminated against, dehumanized, and this movie
Speaker 9: won't help any of that. Thanks for being a douce,
Speaker 9: Eli Roth and any like hashtags like a million Native
Speaker 9: groups who are reading this stuff and responding to this stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and again keep in mind real you know
Speaker 3: Native movements, right like real indigenous people, real involved Native activists,
Speaker 3: you know, not your your you know, tight gene wearing
Speaker 3: hipster slacktivist.
Speaker 9: And incredibly who shows up to put his foot in
Speaker 9: his mouth in classic Eli Roth fashion. No, no, then
Speaker 9: Eli himself.
Speaker 3: Can't take criticism, not even on Instagram, not even from
Speaker 3: you know. And let's face it, I mean, we said
Speaker 3: this guy's a lot of followers, and he does, but really,
Speaker 3: let's face it, it's a relatively obscure indigenous group. You know,
Speaker 3: it's a relatively obscure indigenous activist, and here's Eli Roth,
Speaker 3: unable to take any sort of criticism whatsoever. He's got
Speaker 3: to jump in there just so you're away.
Speaker 9: We've shown the movie to Amazon Watch and they loved that.
Speaker 9: It's completely on the side of the villagers and points
Speaker 9: out everything you're saying. We're going to work with them
Speaker 9: through the entire promotion of the film to help moviegoers
Speaker 9: direct their energy and resources to the groups who are
Speaker 9: waking to protect uncontacted tribes from oil companies. My film
Speaker 9: is Awake of fiction. It's a parable, but that doesn't
Speaker 9: mean we can't use it as a platform to educate
Speaker 9: and help people understand way to get involved and how
Speaker 9: to help.
Speaker 3: Yeah, which is like, that's a decent statement.
Speaker 9: Sadly none of it's true. A. As we know, Amazon
Speaker 9: Watch didn't see the movie, they don't support it. They
Speaker 9: fucking hate the movie. And two go on, what Eli's
Speaker 9: he's not driving attention to these issues. He's retweeting angry
Speaker 9: twenty year old video gamers who want to see tits.
Speaker 27: You don't like these TV shows, you don't like these movies,
Speaker 27: you don't like these video games. You don't like these comics,
Speaker 27: you don't like this music, you don't like any of
Speaker 27: the stuff, then just leave, just go away. Quire listening
Speaker 27: to it, quit reading it, quit playing it. Just put
Speaker 27: the shit down and shut the fuck up.
Speaker 3: But here's the important thing to keep in mind. Do
Speaker 3: this confrontation on Instagram happened about a month ago. It
Speaker 3: happened before the current SJW movie poster and this current
Speaker 3: anti SJW marketing angle. So this kind of puts it
Speaker 3: even more interesting spin on things, and even more interesting
Speaker 3: really is what happens next, because Emmerindian is so gracious,
Speaker 3: He's so like, I can't believe Elyros showed up and
Speaker 3: said something, and so he's just really gracious and apologetic,
Speaker 3: like I'm sorry I called you names, and I'm going
Speaker 3: to give you the benefit of doubt. It's really stotic.
Speaker 3: So you know, go ahead and just just sort.
Speaker 9: Of well, I'll jump ahead, because there is a great
Speaker 9: back and forth between the two of them, but I
Speaker 9: don't want to read the whole thing, but they go
Speaker 9: back and forth. They're talking about you know, he's putting
Speaker 9: his view basically, amplifying and elaborating on the whole problem
Speaker 9: and Eli Roth's jumping in and I think what really
Speaker 9: one over Ammerindian is when Eli Roth name dropped Amazon
Speaker 9: Watch and said, listen, you haven't seen the film. They've
Speaker 9: seen the film, they loved the film.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they support it.
Speaker 9: And he's like, okay, well wait a minute. Maybe And
Speaker 9: this is before the marketing too, like the post and everything.
Speaker 9: So at this point Amerindian's given him the benefit of
Speaker 9: the dout gone Okay, maybe there's something going on. There's
Speaker 9: a more to your film that meets the eye. But
Speaker 9: he does take issue with this whole the depiction of
Speaker 9: Indigenous people as ruthless savages.
Speaker 3: The hell is that? No, I swear that was like
Speaker 3: a richeralistic punishment for a tough That's what it is.
Speaker 4: Just sit back and enjoy the show because afterwards he's
Speaker 4: going to take us to the village. That punishment is
Speaker 4: considered a divine commandment. If she had not killed her,
Speaker 4: the tribe would have killed him.
Speaker 9: So who shows up to the party? Amazon watched themselves
Speaker 9: via their Instagram account.
Speaker 3: I love this.
Speaker 9: This is just so amazing.
Speaker 3: This is the beauty of the internet now right, like,
Speaker 3: this is the beauty of the Internet.
Speaker 9: As a privileged white male gringo, you are doing exactly
Speaker 9: what you claim to be warning of by depicting Indigenous
Speaker 9: people so offensively and inaccurately in this film. If you
Speaker 9: portrayed black people this way, would you consider that less offensive?
Speaker 9: Or how about Jewish people? The indigenous communities are NGO
Speaker 9: partners with in the Amazon would be offended and embarrassed
Speaker 9: if they saw how grossly inaccurate you've depicted their heritage.
Speaker 3: Listen to those sjw's and.
Speaker 9: Then they go on to say that very quote that
Speaker 9: was then taken out of the context of this Instagram
Speaker 9: conversation and used as the main mission statement for that
Speaker 9: change dot org petition.
Speaker 3: We finally see where this Amazon watch statement originated from,
Speaker 3: and we see why they were reluctant to say it
Speaker 3: was a formal statement, right. That's why they were cagey
Speaker 3: about their language about it, because they knew they'd said it.
Speaker 3: It just they didn't say it in any sort of
Speaker 3: official capacity. It was an Instagram comment.
Speaker 9: And they had nothing to do with the petition. So
Speaker 9: what happened was either what looks to have happened is
Speaker 9: like a supporter of Amerindian Yes Society menace just following
Speaker 9: the conversation, because all sorts of people are chiming any
Speaker 9: this isn't just between Eli Amazon and Amerindians. Yeah, people commented, basically,
Speaker 9: poor Eli's being eaten alive by the savage cannibals that
Speaker 9: are the Indigenous people who take issue with this film.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty amazing, Like it's that whole thread is
Speaker 3: basically just an Indigenous people taken around out of Eli
Speaker 3: Roth and calling him a puto, and like it's pretty amazing,
Speaker 3: amazing to watch.
Speaker 9: And the irony is he thinks he's making a film
Speaker 9: that's a satire about people jumping into political issues they
Speaker 9: don't understand. And yet clearly Eli Roth has jumped into
Speaker 9: a political issue he has no understanding of. So I
Speaker 9: only have one thing to say to Eli. Physician, heal thyself.
Speaker 8: Let's play doctor.
Speaker 3: It's easy. I'll be the doctor and you be the patient,
Speaker 3: and you pretend like you're sick and I'll examine you.
Speaker 14: Okay.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty amazing. And what I love too is
Speaker 3: that how he comes back out and says, oh, we're well,
Speaker 3: don't worry, we're announcing a partnership with an Amazon rights group,
Speaker 3: not Amazon watched some other Amazon.
Speaker 9: Rights Well, I'll read the statement immediately after then Amazon
Speaker 9: Watch said our organization does not support this film, but
Speaker 9: there's a gross offense to our Indigenous partners. And Eli
Speaker 9: Roth comes back and says, we are soon announcing a
Speaker 9: partnership with an Amazon rights group, but it is not
Speaker 9: Amazon Watch. I apologize I was misinformed. I'm still waiting
Speaker 9: for that partnership. Have you had anything about this partnership?
Speaker 3: Not a people.
Speaker 9: We can all argue over social media, but the reality is,
Speaker 9: again it's just a way of dismissing them. We can
Speaker 9: all argue over social media. Well where else are you
Speaker 9: gonna have this fucking argument with indigenous people? Motherfucker. They
Speaker 9: weren't at the film festival. They don't work for the
Speaker 9: horror press, who are reprinting your bullshit without critically evaluating it.
Speaker 9: Where the fuck do you think you're gonna have this argument.
Speaker 3: It's not like these people have talk shows, you know something.
Speaker 9: Yeah, they don't have it. Well they do, but nobody
Speaker 9: watches those networks. There is an Aboriginal news network or
Speaker 9: well it's very.
Speaker 3: True, but I mean he's not going out and trying
Speaker 3: to trying to court conversation in those arenas, you know,
Speaker 3: he's provoking them. Even when he says he's trying, he's
Speaker 3: not going to provoke them, he proceeds to then provoke
Speaker 3: them in the most asinine way possible.
Speaker 9: It's amazing, absolutely so now we know that that poster
Speaker 9: there wasn't just cluelessness. It was a direct fuck you,
Speaker 9: not just to like the sgws who are gonna complain,
Speaker 9: but the very people themselves, the very indigenous people using
Speaker 9: these groups to discuss rape, murder, the absolute dehumanization of
Speaker 9: their culture, the things that when they see reflected in
Speaker 9: his film, these gross like media representations that further perpetuate
Speaker 9: this sort of lack of prominence in a culture and
Speaker 9: diminish their voice. They're taking issue with that, and he's saying, yeah,
Speaker 9: well fuck you, here's more of it, because guess what,
Speaker 9: you're gonna attack me on Instagram. You're gonna rip me
Speaker 9: to pieces on Instagram. Well, guess what I can summon
Speaker 9: a force, a wrath far greater than you, guys. And
Speaker 9: that's what sent him running to the four chan gam
Speaker 9: agate world to bring that level of reactionary vitriol to
Speaker 9: drown out any squeaks of protest. This is like him
Speaker 9: taking that anti homophobia rantin Fangoria to a whole high
Speaker 9: marketing conceptual level.
Speaker 12: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean, if you want to imagine it. I mean,
Speaker 3: here is Roth up on his sort of podium, you know,
Speaker 3: ranting about you know, political correctness and all this other stuff.
Speaker 3: And the the four chan, eight chan, gamer Gate anti
Speaker 3: SJW crew are like the the guys in the jack boots,
Speaker 3: you know, kind of all lined up around the base
Speaker 3: of the podium waiting for the troublemakers to start up
Speaker 3: and they'll descend upon them.
Speaker 20: You know.
Speaker 3: That's how these guys operate in thunder.
Speaker 11: Park.
Speaker 9: Nor to Dan, so let me finish his statement. He
Speaker 9: goes on to say, so we can argue over social media,
Speaker 9: but the reality is the film will be in release
Speaker 9: and I Am going to use the release platform to
Speaker 9: raise awareness for all these issues. So hear this, Bright,
Speaker 9: but hear this gam Agate, hear this, Cybertroopers. He's not
Speaker 9: your poster boy. He's not making a film to go
Speaker 9: after the bloody social justice warriors. He's secretly doing it
Speaker 9: to go after the oil companies and all the He's
Speaker 9: doing it to support indigenous rights issues. That's supposedly, what
Speaker 9: he's saying here his agenda, but as we all know,
Speaker 9: he just twists with the wind. Put him in a
Speaker 9: room full of indigenous people. He's against the oil companies.
Speaker 9: We said that as a joke before, but actually it
Speaker 9: is exactly what he did here.
Speaker 12: It is right.
Speaker 9: He'll just sell his crap to anybody.
Speaker 3: It's absolutely amazing that here he is saying, hey, listen,
Speaker 3: you know this movie supports this, and I want to
Speaker 3: use the message of this film to help elevate your voices,
Speaker 3: and then a scant month later start marketing to the
Speaker 3: very people who want to ensure these voices never get heard.
Speaker 9: I mean, it's so, it's so so my bendingley fucked.
Speaker 9: I can't sorry, I got to finish his statement. It's
Speaker 9: hard to get through without just going like holy fuck.
Speaker 9: But let's try to get through his words. So he says,
Speaker 9: I don't expect everyone to support it, but right now
Speaker 9: everyone is judging from a trailer and a poster, which
Speaker 9: I understand. I'm not going to antagonize anyone. I'll just
Speaker 9: put hashtags on my poster as a big fuck you.
Speaker 9: I won't antagonize anyone to create. Well, let's finished to
Speaker 9: create some controversy for the film, because that doesn't address
Speaker 9: what's really happening. What's really happening, Eli, you want to
Speaker 9: tell us slacktivists, right, the ones going to the Amazon
Speaker 9: political correctness, lack of tits, So what's really happening. Nearly
Speaker 9: the entire crew and cast were Peruvian and Chilean. Everyone
Speaker 9: believes in the film's message. Really, everyone believes in the
Speaker 9: film's message. The film doesn't have a fucking message. That's
Speaker 9: the That's what we've really gotten to the heart of.
Speaker 9: We haven't even seen the film when we can tell
Speaker 9: you're so confused. You're all over the place. You're contradicting
Speaker 9: yourself in the concept of the film and everything you've
Speaker 9: said about the film and every way you've tried to
Speaker 9: market this film has been hypocritical, contradictory, and fucking clueless, dude,
Speaker 9: absolutely fucking clueless.
Speaker 3: I mean it's really depressing. But the message of the
Speaker 3: movie seems to be whatever he needs the message of
Speaker 3: the movie to be in order to you know, sort
Speaker 3: of criticism, right. So you know, if it's natives coming
Speaker 3: at him, it's no, no, I support you guys. And
Speaker 3: if it's the free speech crowd coming at him saying, Hey,
Speaker 3: how come you're giving into those natives.
Speaker 2: It's like, a, I don't want that.
Speaker 3: I don't like those natives. I hate those slacktivists. You know,
Speaker 3: it's whatever he needs to be at.
Speaker 9: The time he'll be president of the United States. You
Speaker 9: realize that, like, this is a guy who was like
Speaker 9: banging around film festivals a few years ago with Cavin Fever.
Speaker 9: I know people who hung out with him, and I
Speaker 9: heard a lot of stories about him through those networks.
Speaker 9: But he went very quickly from Cavin Fever to just
Speaker 9: a hop, Skip and a Jump, a big, massive blockbuster
Speaker 9: horror movie with Hostel and then a Hop, Skip and
Speaker 9: a Jumpanese on screen and a Quentin Tarantino film with
Speaker 9: Brad Pitt. And when they promoted the movie a can,
Speaker 9: they had this gigantic like poster with Brad Pitt's face
Speaker 9: on one side of a building. On the other side
Speaker 9: it was Eli Roth. Yeah, yeah, he was huge. What's
Speaker 9: going on? He's just like gone from like a dude
Speaker 9: to this gigantic like pop culture figure overnight. I'm telling
Speaker 9: you he's gonna be.
Speaker 3: President, president of horror Nation.
Speaker 9: Maybe, well, he was already president of Horrornation, self appointed
Speaker 9: right after Hostel went big, or he became the spokesperson
Speaker 9: for the genre.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm a huge fan to be that.
Speaker 9: I think to me that he's the director that horror films.
Speaker 26: Have been waiting to come out, because it's like, you know,
Speaker 26: it's not about getting getting on the cover of or
Speaker 26: It's gonna be weekly.
Speaker 9: It's about getting on the cover effect Gloria all right.
Speaker 26: It's not about like, Okay, I'm gonna do a whore
Speaker 26: for a while, then I'm gonna ditch it and do
Speaker 26: other stuff.
Speaker 9: It's not always about horror films. Sorry, let me do
Speaker 9: finish the statement. It's almost impossible to get through. It's
Speaker 9: so infuriating, you know, to even read it. It was
Speaker 9: driving me notes when I first read it. Let alone,
Speaker 9: try to read it for people just.
Speaker 3: Keep sighing over and over again. You read a sentence
Speaker 3: and you just have to sigh and like then rant
Speaker 3: and get all the hate out of you and then
Speaker 3: like read the next one. It's awful.
Speaker 9: So whatever you may think about me personally, it's fine.
Speaker 9: Just know that I am a could. I am as
Speaker 9: upset and horrified by what's going on and simply how
Speaker 9: he's upset horrified. Guys, he's a fucking esg W. Exactly
Speaker 9: do you realize that game again? What a bleaan heart
Speaker 9: liberal you've made into your post, boy, and he's Jewish.
Speaker 9: Just know that I am as.
Speaker 28: Upset horrified by what's going on, and simply have a
Speaker 28: different way of getting the message out to a younger
Speaker 28: generation who may not be aware of the indigenous rights
Speaker 28: problems in the Amazon.
Speaker 9: It's fucking unbelievable, man. This is jungle Gate. When he
Speaker 9: decided to do a hashtag jungle gate, what was he
Speaker 9: expecting people going to do with that? That's nothing jungle
Speaker 9: Gate does not. This is the jungle Gate, the phony petition,
Speaker 9: the bullshit, the conversation on Instagram with Native people, despite
Speaker 9: that informed your marketing after this happened, The big giant
Speaker 9: fuck you to the Native people that tore you the
Speaker 9: shreds in this fucking exchange. Horror films historically have always
Speaker 9: done this. You might not like it, and that's fine,
Speaker 9: but if we want to have a productive discussion that
Speaker 9: can educate the general public, I'm all for it. Bickering
Speaker 9: on social media is not the best approach for any
Speaker 9: of this to rarely reach people. No, you know what
Speaker 9: is the best approach. Ignore those people, fucking entirely sell
Speaker 9: your bullshit to a pathetic horror press who don't question
Speaker 9: the sources, don't take into account the point of view
Speaker 9: of the people who are actually being fucking marginalized and
Speaker 9: discriminated against potentially with your representation. All right, just shut
Speaker 9: them out of the fucking way. Then we can have
Speaker 9: a nice discussion where it's you, your idiotic lemming like
Speaker 9: cyber trooper, fucking slacktivists, hit like on your anti SJW campaigns.
Speaker 9: That's the discussion you want, Eli, I don't see anything
Speaker 9: outside of those very narrow parameters. Nothing is being channeled
Speaker 9: into your world other than that agenda that we have
Speaker 9: deconstructed and analyzed. Please prove us wrong, show us some tangible,
Speaker 9: tangible sensibility on your part, that you have an instinct
Speaker 9: and a sensitivity and a compassion for these people, like
Speaker 9: you said in that statement, because they all fucking hate you.
Speaker 3: He says he wants to have this productive discussion, and
Speaker 3: then less than a month later he's directly antagonizing those people.
Speaker 9: Mocking them, ridiculing them. And like I said, I thought
Speaker 9: it was clueless. But it's so vindictive, Yeah, and amplifying
Speaker 9: real bigots, you know, it's so Yeah, it's crazy. So
Speaker 9: right off the bat, it's going to bring back the
Speaker 9: Cannibal movie. He knows people are going to kind of
Speaker 9: have a problem with the political incorrectness of it, so
Speaker 9: we'll demonize those people in the film. Then it gets
Speaker 9: kind of out of hand. Now native groups themselves are
Speaker 9: ripping him to pieces. So what is he going to do?
Speaker 9: Demonize them, make a mockery out of their causes, make
Speaker 9: a mockery out of their hashtags that they're using to
Speaker 9: discuss issues that are relevant to the subjugation of their people,
Speaker 9: and then go on their fucking Instagram and pretend he's
Speaker 9: like on their side and he's all concerned, he's all sensitive.
Speaker 9: I didn't expect to get this irritated reading this stuff,
Speaker 9: but it's just like, man, I'm just so sick of
Speaker 9: the bulls. I'm sick of the whole failure of the
Speaker 9: culture to even respond to a shred of like critical
Speaker 9: fucking thought.
Speaker 3: And again, where is the environmental education? Where where is
Speaker 3: this Like, Hey, I acknowledge you're facing these issues. Why
Speaker 3: is he not amplifying the voices of these natives. I mean,
Speaker 3: could he not, like, is it not possible for him
Speaker 3: to release this like very exploitive cannibal film that obviously,
Speaker 3: I mean, you can't make a cannibal film and not
Speaker 3: depict indigenous people in a poor light, right, But.
Speaker 9: There's no reason, Well hang on a sec that, you know.
Speaker 9: I don't know a lot about cannibalism in North America
Speaker 9: and South American indigenous tribes. I do believe it existed,
Speaker 9: and there were two forms that I have read about.
Speaker 9: One is endo cannibalism, which is an interesting practice of
Speaker 9: eating the dead as a way of honoring the dead.
Speaker 15: Right.
Speaker 9: I imagine if we practice that in this culture, your
Speaker 9: grandmother that was like, oh my god, we got to
Speaker 9: eat and today, oh my god, you know, and then
Speaker 9: there'd be like people in your family, don't worry, I know,
Speaker 9: just the right like spices put on that made. But
Speaker 9: apparently in endo cannibalism, and this isn't just South American tribes.
Speaker 9: This has happened in different cultures over the globe. It's
Speaker 9: just a different conception of how to honor the dead.
Speaker 9: They eat everything, every part of the body, the bones,
Speaker 9: the feces, so I don't really know too much about it,
Speaker 9: so I'm not pretending to be an expert about it.
Speaker 9: There's another form of cannibalism, which is a retribution style cannibalism,
Speaker 9: which is a way of punishing people who've transgressed, and
Speaker 9: maybe that's what Eli's channeling. I have heard him say
Speaker 9: that everything depicted in the film, as far as the cannibalism,
Speaker 9: was based on some sort of tribal act that he'd
Speaker 9: read about. So again, in all of this, we do
Speaker 9: have to, you know, really make a firm point that
Speaker 9: we haven't seen the film, Like, even if the film
Speaker 9: is fantastic and actually does reveal a progressive view which
Speaker 9: the brake Bark guys won't like, you know, no matter
Speaker 9: at this point, no matter which way Eli is gonna go,
Speaker 9: he's either gonna piss off the brake Bark guys and
Speaker 9: the people intoard of his anti sjaw stants with the
Speaker 9: film if it comes out, or he's going to piss
Speaker 9: off the Native people who feel like it's a terrible
Speaker 9: depiction of their culture and also doesn't really address the
Speaker 9: social issues. Or maybe his film's trying to play favorites
Speaker 9: with everybody, because that's the mixed messages I'm getting. I
Speaker 9: think what it illustrates as a guy who never really
Speaker 9: conceptually thought this stuff through and has been like painted
Speaker 9: himself into a corner and has been just flailing brutally
Speaker 9: ever since.
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think in twenty fifteen, if you're
Speaker 3: setting out to make like an exploitation cannibal film, you're
Speaker 3: trying to do something that's homage to, you know, Cannibal
Speaker 3: Holocaust and these very extreme pieces of cinema. You know,
Speaker 3: you you probably have to balance that out a bit.
Speaker 3: The film will be extreme and antagonistic itself. So does
Speaker 3: the marketing need to be extreme, antagonist and antagonistic, or
Speaker 3: or could the marketing actually be something that is educational
Speaker 3: and progressive in something that says, hey, this film is
Speaker 3: a work of fantasy, and it's an homage to films
Speaker 3: that were made during a time where we had, frankly,
Speaker 3: you know, some less evolved ideas about these sorts of things.
Speaker 9: Well you're saying that, you're saying that, but actually, if
Speaker 9: you think back now, Cannibal Holocaust is looking infinitely more
Speaker 9: progressive than how Green and Right, The Monsters, the True Monsters,
Speaker 9: and Cannibal Holocaust Twitter is in a little you know,
Speaker 9: people like winging on Twitter like they are supposedly in
Speaker 9: Elis film. The true monsters is Western culture is absolutely
Speaker 9: Western imperialist domination of the region, you know what I mean.
Speaker 9: That's the hideous force that is dealt with. And there
Speaker 9: is a cannibal retribution act. Absolutely, when the cannibals rip
Speaker 9: those white guys to shreds, you never feel like, oh
Speaker 9: the cannibals are horrible, they did something wrong. You feel
Speaker 9: like you're on the side of the me. Yeah, I
Speaker 9: rip those guys to shreds. Man, they just ripped the
Speaker 9: pot of tat or for sport. You know, let's put
Speaker 9: these guys out of their misery. I'm not speaking as
Speaker 9: a scientist, but as the man in the street.
Speaker 27: This so called documentary footage is offensive, it is dishonest,
Speaker 27: and above all, it is inhuman.
Speaker 29: Yes, yes, of course we all know what Alan was like.
Speaker 9: You overdid it as usual, but what you saw.
Speaker 24: Is a rough cut.
Speaker 3: Perhaps I haven't made myself clear, but I I refuse
Speaker 3: to have anything to do with this material.
Speaker 30: Look, professor, we are talking about the most sensational documentary
Speaker 30: to come along in years. But you want us just
Speaker 30: to shelve it, to forget about it as if it
Speaker 30: had never been found.
Speaker 29: Is that what you want?
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, that is precisely what I want.
Speaker 9: I've seen the rest of them, Maial.
Speaker 3: You haven't. You haven't seen this stuff that even your editors.
Speaker 27: Didn't have the stomach to put together, and if you had,
Speaker 27: you wouldn't hesitate.
Speaker 12: But to agree with me.
Speaker 9: So finally, if anybody has any thoughts on what we're
Speaker 9: talking about and would like to write in, please send
Speaker 9: an email to info at Cinophobia radio dot com. If
Speaker 9: we get enough interesting comments, perhaps we'll do a follow
Speaker 9: up and read some of them. I think we should also,
Speaker 9: even though I said I wasn't interested in the film,
Speaker 9: I think in all fairness we should actually see the
Speaker 9: film and see if there's anything that redeems how Elia
Speaker 9: has been marketing the film, you know, and if he
Speaker 9: feels like he's been unfairly treated with our with our
Speaker 9: criticisms of the marketing. So hopefully it does generate some
Speaker 9: discussion and we can all sort of learn a thing
Speaker 9: or two.
Speaker 3: The fact that basically a couple of like nobody ex
Speaker 3: hard journalists are the people who are picking up this
Speaker 3: thread as opposed to you know, the big, much larger
Speaker 3: media apparatus that people like Eli Roth are capable of
Speaker 3: commanding is pretty disappointing. And that's why it's also important
Speaker 3: to ask people to share this around and to create
Speaker 3: this dialogue, because we are trying to amplify these voices
Speaker 3: and we are trying to, you know, help this part
Speaker 3: of the message get out as well, because this isn't
Speaker 3: about political correctness. This is about Indigenous people, and this
Speaker 3: is about how they feel about their portrayal, and their
Speaker 3: voices should be heard. And I'm against Eli Roth campaigning
Speaker 3: to stop these people from being heard and supporting people
Speaker 3: who are going to work to stop these people from
Speaker 3: being heard. I think that's important and hopefully listeners out
Speaker 3: there find that important as well.
Speaker 9: I have to say that doing a little thing like
Speaker 9: reaching out to an organization, getting some information that nobody's
Speaker 9: bothered to look into, and then going down a couple
Speaker 9: of little weird rabbit holes and unearthing what we on earth,
Speaker 9: it's incredible conversation on Instagram that nobody knows about, nobody's discussing.
Speaker 9: That's kind of like the rewards of doing journalists. It's
Speaker 9: not about just coming up with some crappy byline on
Speaker 9: a website that you can start blasting all over Twitter
Speaker 9: and saying, look at me, look at me, I got
Speaker 9: my name on a website. Look at me. I'm reprinting
Speaker 9: a press release. Look at me. You know, it's not
Speaker 9: about that. That's not the reward. That is evacuous, unsatisfying, masturbatory, masturbatory,
Speaker 9: pointless exercise. If you're going to be a horror journalist,
Speaker 9: it's not about getting free tickets to movies. It's not
Speaker 9: about getting free swag. It's not about like bragging to
Speaker 9: your friends or going to parties or hobnobbing with celebrities.
Speaker 9: It's about being a fucking journalist. Be critical, evaluate these things.
Speaker 9: But however you do it, just do the fucking job,
Speaker 9: just the jop exactly.
Speaker 3: It's not difficult stuff. This is really really basic. Group
Speaker 3: makes claim, journalist fact checks claim.
Speaker 9: Yeah, you know, journalism one on one. That's all we
Speaker 9: have to say about it, folks.
Speaker 3: It's that simple.
Speaker 31: And instead of just oh my god, Eli Roth says this,
Speaker 31: what we actually see is this wild, weird story, you know,
Speaker 31: that takes us all these weird, interesting places on the
Speaker 31: Internet and ends us up right here.
Speaker 12: It rests on thirteen acres of earth over the very
Speaker 12: center of Hell. Here is the first motion picture to
Speaker 12: offer to the daring a look into the final maddening
Speaker 12: space between life and death. To avoid fainting, keep repeating,
Speaker 12: sights and sounds far beyond anything you've tested. To avoid fainting,
Speaker 12: keep repeating. Only take as much as you can.
Speaker 9: On Jungle Gates Volume three. Obviously, anyone that's seen the
Speaker 9: Green Inferno, if you're divorce it from the marketing and
Speaker 9: divorce it from some of the ideas that we were
Speaker 9: alluding to in jungle Gate one and two, the film
Speaker 9: itself is barely worth a two hundred and fifty word review,
Speaker 9: let alone a series of podcasts dedicated to the subject.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, it's really like having seen it and you know,
Speaker 3: being able to an now reflect on like what have
Speaker 3: we done?
Speaker 11: What we do?
Speaker 3: But but I mean, I think the listener will will
Speaker 3: find that there's obvious benefits to what we're talking about.
Speaker 9: That you said the listener, meaning there's only one listener.
Speaker 9: By jungle Gate volume three, there really probably is one,
Speaker 9: you know, the listener.
Speaker 3: You know the listeners as a body, you know, like, yes,
Speaker 3: in general, I mean.
Speaker 9: I understand the point I'm just being playful with the summit,
Speaker 9: but I mean, you.
Speaker 3: Know, that's that's what That's what we would hope anyway.
Speaker 9: But here's the real point of continuing to examine the story.
Speaker 9: First of all, the marketing of the film actually did
Speaker 9: take some interesting twists and turns after Jungle Gate two,
Speaker 9: so it's relevant for those to come back and kind
Speaker 9: of finish the story. If had it just come out
Speaker 9: with no more real incidents, does not need to go
Speaker 9: back and examine the marketing because we really put it
Speaker 9: under the microscope sufficiently in one and two, but then
Speaker 9: it did these crazy other moves that we've never got
Speaker 9: to address, so we have to talk about that. But
Speaker 9: more importantly than that, in doing all those episodes and
Speaker 9: continuing to kind of follow the timeline of events leaning
Speaker 9: up to the film, it really kicked up a lot
Speaker 9: of topics, not only between private discussions that you and
Speaker 9: I had and even discussion that I had with other people,
Speaker 9: people who didn't really want to go public on the
Speaker 9: record with their thoughts and reflections about what we were
Speaker 9: talking about, but also a lot of conversations with listeners
Speaker 9: and even people hostile to what they thought we were
Speaker 9: trying to do. It's brought up so many larger issues
Speaker 9: that I think this becomes really an excellent opportunity to
Speaker 9: discuss some bigger concepts, far bigger than anything to do
Speaker 9: with the Green Infana or Eli Roth or anything like that. Yeah,
Speaker 9: we're still going to talk about the marketing and things
Speaker 9: that he said, but we're going to kind of raise
Speaker 9: it to a whole of the level, hopefully of philosophical
Speaker 9: ideas as it relates to the horror genre and the
Speaker 9: culture that supports the horror genre, as Eli himself claims
Speaker 9: was his great wish with the film to spark discussion. Well,
Speaker 9: on these episodes, we're going to have the very discussion
Speaker 9: that Eli made this film to generate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we're going to deliver on the promise
Speaker 3: Eli made to everyone.
Speaker 9: That's the other thing that I want to do with
Speaker 9: these episodes is kind of underscore how the horror press
Speaker 9: just kind of swallows this stuff up, doesn't analyze it,
Speaker 9: and just kind of lets it flow through. It's like
Speaker 9: a pr marketing machine where you can literally spew anything
Speaker 9: as contradictory and fallacy laden as it is, and nobody
Speaker 9: is there to kind of pay attention and comment and
Speaker 9: dissect and contextualize, and it just kind of filters through
Speaker 9: this whole pr mechanism largely supported by a fan gushing
Speaker 9: a press, all the websites and all the magazines, none
Speaker 9: of them have a stuff to kind of analyze what's
Speaker 9: actually being spoken.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's a real sort of orthodoxy to all this
Speaker 3: where you're not really encouraged. I mean, there's no real
Speaker 3: benefit to doing this right because the consequences of it
Speaker 3: might be, well, hey, I don't get you know, I
Speaker 3: get my access cut off. You know, all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: publicists aren't sending me things, or maybe we're not going
Speaker 3: to get that set visit, or you know, there's always
Speaker 3: those concerns in the way it seems, or it's very
Speaker 3: frustrating when you want to actually write about things that
Speaker 3: are important in this genre when the press you are
Speaker 3: trying to do it through doesn't really have the courage
Speaker 3: to say some of the things that it needs to
Speaker 3: say in order to really be introspective. And that's the
Speaker 3: real tragedy. And I think that's thing we've really this
Speaker 3: story can really help illustrate and why that's one of
Speaker 3: the reasons I find it extremely important. And if we
Speaker 3: can do something with these episodes. That's definitely one of
Speaker 3: the big objectives for me anyway.
Speaker 9: And I don't want to really get into the Spider
Speaker 9: Baby issue because not that it's been done to death,
Speaker 9: because again, none of these mainstream outlets ever really adequately
Speaker 9: analyze that situation. I mean, there were a few people
Speaker 9: that kind of stood on a high horse and said, hey,
Speaker 9: we were unscathed by that whole incident, so therefore we
Speaker 9: can speak critically of it, even though they've got their
Speaker 9: own skeletons to worry about. But for me, the whole
Speaker 9: Spider Baby thing really shone a light at how diseased
Speaker 9: the horror culture is, and obviously that somebody could just
Speaker 9: sort of ascend to these great heights and be propped
Speaker 9: up by so many voices and legitimized by so many outlets,
Speaker 9: all based on riding this wave of stolen work that
Speaker 9: if you actually paid it tension to the wig, like
Speaker 9: if you were an editor of a magazine and this
Speaker 9: copy was landing on your desk, there would have been
Speaker 9: many cues that there was something amiss with what was
Speaker 9: being put together.
Speaker 3: They well, I mean, that was the natural next question.
Speaker 25: For me.
Speaker 3: It was It went immediately from did this happen? Which then,
Speaker 3: you know, I read the story and I saw the
Speaker 3: links myself, and I went, yes, it happened. And the
Speaker 3: immediate next question on my mind is what happened? How
Speaker 3: is it possible to have an editor who's supposed to
Speaker 3: be the gatekeeper of this stuff and for this to
Speaker 3: get through it? So, I mean, to me, this was
Speaker 3: just where the story was going next, and that's where
Speaker 3: my mind immediately went next. And I'm not sure that's
Speaker 3: where everybody went next. Right away, it seemed to be
Speaker 3: people had to be prompted a little bit to like, hey, guys,
Speaker 3: remember that there's supposed to be somebody whose job it
Speaker 3: is doing this and gatekeeping this stuff. So what happened there?
Speaker 3: You know, because that just opens a whole bunch more
Speaker 3: really uncomfortable questions.
Speaker 9: The gatekeepers were never taken to task. In fact, they
Speaker 9: were the first to sort of throw Spider Baby under
Speaker 9: the bus as if to kind of diffuse any attention
Speaker 9: to themselves.
Speaker 3: I think they were quite keenly able to ask saying
Speaker 3: that that was where the attention was coming next. It
Speaker 3: was the next logical question, So what else could they do?
Speaker 26: You know?
Speaker 3: They had to make a bit of a preemptive strike
Speaker 3: the ones who bothered the comment at all anyway.
Speaker 9: But this failure to sort of even catch the ascendancy
Speaker 9: of a person like Spider Baby, and the failure to
Speaker 9: really ask the tough questions in the wake of the
Speaker 9: revelations of all the plagiarism and etc. Is indicative, if exactly,
Speaker 9: the reason I feel it's important for us to do
Speaker 9: this show right now, because I see a correlation. I'm
Speaker 9: not comparing Eli directly with Spider Baby, because Eli hasn't
Speaker 9: transgress the same boundaries. He's not a plagiarist, He's not
Speaker 9: really doing anything wrong. He's making his movies, but he's
Speaker 9: selling them with a lot of provocative, taunting rhetoric that
Speaker 9: is contradictory, riddled with inaccuracies, if not outright lies, and
Speaker 9: there's nobody there to take him to task. There's no
Speaker 9: gatekeeper on the job. It's just the bullshit is allowed
Speaker 9: to just flow freely down the mountain and nobody's there
Speaker 9: to clean it up, and it just drowns us all
Speaker 9: in its stench and its filth.
Speaker 3: And what's worth is that we seemingly like it because
Speaker 3: we visit the websites, we buy, the magazines, we partake
Speaker 3: in all of it. So seemingly this is status quo. This,
Speaker 3: this is a situation normal, you know, like this is
Speaker 3: what people expect. You know, here's here's your PR. And
Speaker 3: the idea that a horror or magazine or a horror
Speaker 3: website or whatever the case may be, would just be
Speaker 3: sort of an extension in the PR department of these
Speaker 3: film studios isn't even that controversial an idea to some people.
Speaker 3: It just seems to be good business.
Speaker 9: They've implicitly internalized it absolutely as an ideal business model.
Speaker 9: I've had editors say, oh, we should do something to
Speaker 9: support this publicist, or we should really get behind these
Speaker 9: guys because they advertise with us, and so on and
Speaker 9: so forth. Like this concept of advertorial, especially in print.
Speaker 9: Now that the funds are drying up, the advertising dollars
Speaker 9: are drying up, so self evident journalistic ethics are being
Speaker 9: transgressed as these publications get more desperate for this ever
Speaker 9: diminishing pile of pennies.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's kind of the disturbing thing, right, is
Speaker 3: that this is the same conundrum faced by all media. Right,
Speaker 3: so all media, all spectrums are facing similar threats and
Speaker 3: compromises to their integrity, So why wouldn't we expect to
Speaker 3: see it at this level? And that's actually what kind
Speaker 3: of makes it fascinating, is that to see it at
Speaker 3: this level and to realize that even at this level,
Speaker 3: this is how things are.
Speaker 9: There's also one last thing that I want to say
Speaker 9: about Eli before we continue, because we're going to continue
Speaker 9: to sort of analyze things that he said, to kind
Speaker 9: of expose some of these kind of like wrong headed
Speaker 9: assumptions that he spews so kind of willfully, you know,
Speaker 9: as there's no gatekeepers or freethink has taken him to
Speaker 9: task and so on. But I don't want to necessarily
Speaker 9: continue to demonize Eli the person, as difficult as that's
Speaker 9: going to be, because I really do object to saytain
Speaker 9: things that he's set and his political ideas. Now he
Speaker 9: said he made the film to spark discussion. We're going
Speaker 9: to give him the discussion, and we're going to vehemently
Speaker 9: disagree with many of his points of view. We're also
Speaker 9: going to expose how contradictory they are. But I have
Speaker 9: to make it clear, I don't know this person. This
Speaker 9: is a human being, you know, he is a public figure,
Speaker 9: so he's put himself in the spotlight. So therefore he's
Speaker 9: allowed for people to critique what he says. And he
Speaker 9: makes films that supposedly spark ideas and we're going to
Speaker 9: kind of engage with those. So he's well up for criticism,
Speaker 9: there's no question about it. But we don't know Eli
Speaker 9: the person. And I felt like listening to volume one
Speaker 9: and two, we were castigating a human being past the
Speaker 9: point everything we said was true. I guess it was
Speaker 9: the intensity of it. Yeah, the aggressive intensity of it.
Speaker 9: Even me, and I mean I'm the culprit here, even
Speaker 9: me listening back, was like, oh my god, that's really intense.
Speaker 9: Like if you're a human being and you listen to
Speaker 9: that and you hear people ripping you to pieces in
Speaker 9: that kind of venomous way, it would be really kind
Speaker 9: of intense. And I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean, I would not a receiving end of there.
Speaker 9: I would not want to be on the receiving end
Speaker 9: of it at all. Actually, you know what put me
Speaker 9: on the receiving end of it? Take me to task
Speaker 9: for what I say. I'm happy to debate and engage.
Speaker 9: That's the difference. Well, I'm happy to debate and engage
Speaker 9: what I say. If I put forward an argument and
Speaker 9: somebody can offer a delicious counter argument that actually provokes
Speaker 9: me to re examine what I have to say, I
Speaker 9: actually find that of great value. I have a few
Speaker 9: trusted friends that I rely on that form. We get
Speaker 9: into heated debates and discussions, and I actually find it
Speaker 9: of great value to be corrected and to kind of
Speaker 9: understand the shortcomings of my own perspectives. Unfortunately, more often
Speaker 9: than not, why you get people taking issue with you,
Speaker 9: but they're not really offering anything of substance to counterpoint
Speaker 9: your point of view, and that's frustrating. And actually, more
Speaker 9: often than that, you feel bad for the person who
Speaker 9: just feels compelled to take it a task but they're
Speaker 9: not in anything to the table, and it puts you
Speaker 9: in the really awkward position of having to spell out
Speaker 9: for them how flimsy their arguments are. And it makes
Speaker 9: a mockery out of them, and it makes a mockery
Speaker 9: out of me, and I resent it, and I don't
Speaker 9: like doing that. But if you can counter my points
Speaker 9: with something of substance, that's fantastic, you know. So I
Speaker 9: hope if ELI does ever listen to this that he
Speaker 9: listens to what we're saying in the spirit of fundamentally,
Speaker 9: we're taking issue with his ideological perspective, and the idea
Speaker 9: is that he thinks are proliferating in his work. Vehemently
Speaker 9: disagreeing with some of these ideas, but I don't want
Speaker 9: to convey an idea that we're going after the person.
Speaker 9: I don't know, Eli. Maybe he loves animals, Maybe he's
Speaker 9: the sweetest next door neighby you could ever possibly have.
Speaker 9: Maybe he loves his mom. I don't know the guy,
Speaker 9: so it's not my place to put him down.
Speaker 3: Because every night before he bangs a bunch of Catalonian whores.
Speaker 5: Hi, I'm Eli Roth Forpeta Well. Violence in the movies
Speaker 5: is make believes. Sadly, violence against animals is all too real.
Speaker 5: Countless animals are tortured and abused every day, and most
Speaker 5: of the time these crimes go unreported. If you know
Speaker 5: of someone who is abusing an animal, please tell the
Speaker 5: police or tell an adult.
Speaker 3: People who get away with.
Speaker 5: Hurting animals often turn their violence against people, and that's
Speaker 5: the cycle we need to break. So let's leave the
Speaker 5: violence where it belongs on the screen, right, Darling, I
Speaker 5: thought we said no tongue.
Speaker 9: So yeah, I feel that's just important to make because
Speaker 9: I don't want this to come off as like a
Speaker 9: vendetta against a human being. Maybe the guy's fantastic. I
Speaker 9: actually hated this wasn't said to me specifically, but it
Speaker 9: was a film programer set it to a mutual friend
Speaker 9: of mine. They said, you know, Eli's not a bad guy,
Speaker 9: And maybe that's true. Maybe he's not a bad guy.
Speaker 9: Maybe he just plays one on TV.
Speaker 3: You know, this is the thing too, This is an
Speaker 3: age where we're encouraged to adopt persona and create a
Speaker 3: brand around yourself and all these sorts of things. So
Speaker 3: sometimes it's really hard to parse out the person and
Speaker 3: the brand, you know, and the persona that they're trying
Speaker 3: to project that they feel they have to project in
Speaker 3: order to be marketable and in order to get people
Speaker 3: to pay attention to them ultimately, and so you know,
Speaker 3: you just almost never know what you're dealing with, is
Speaker 3: it the persona or the person.
Speaker 9: That's actually just a better way of saying what I
Speaker 9: was trying to say, basically, because that's the point I
Speaker 9: want to make, is that we're addressing the public comments
Speaker 9: of Eli roth right the statements he makes, not to
Speaker 9: Payson making the statements.
Speaker 5: Cannibal Holocaust falls into that category of a movie that's
Speaker 5: so low budget you kind of believe it's real, and
Speaker 5: then you look at the people the use, and they
Speaker 5: use real cannibals and like jungle savages when they film this,
Speaker 5: you think, what monster made this movie.
Speaker 9: I'll have to go back and listen to one and
Speaker 9: two to see how hideously I transgressed that sort of principle.
Speaker 9: But that's but that's what I hope to do with
Speaker 9: these two, because we've got more stuff to get into,
Speaker 9: stuff that actually really does legitimately make me angry again
Speaker 9: on that kind of ideological level. So I just sort
Speaker 9: of really want to kind of make that clear because
Speaker 9: when it came back to me somebody saying, you know,
Speaker 9: Eli's not a bad guy, obviously, we're giving the impression
Speaker 9: that we're going after him in a way that's very personal,
Speaker 9: and I just want to really make it clear that no,
Speaker 9: we're not going after the person. We're going after the
Speaker 9: person's ideas.
Speaker 3: Right, and we're going to really try and stick to that.
Speaker 5: How do you direct a bunch of cannibals in Colombia
Speaker 5: in the joy world.
Speaker 3: How do you do that?
Speaker 5: Just that alone seemed to me like it was just
Speaker 5: it just felt like some of it had to be real.
Speaker 5: There's no laws and no one's watching them. He just
Speaker 5: it just gives you this really creepy feeling.
Speaker 9: So that whole thing we had about his small penis size,
Speaker 9: We're not going to get into that on this episode.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to get into that. I'm not going
Speaker 3: to talk about all the shown this dick to young
Speaker 3: girls and what did you see those cocker comments where
Speaker 3: they there was like Eli Ross showed me his dick,
Speaker 3: And we're not going to get into how Eli Ross
Speaker 3: send girls, allegedly sends girls dick picks online and you
Speaker 3: know all that stuff.
Speaker 9: Sends girls dick pics online.
Speaker 3: In the story. No, I'm not joking. I mean that's
Speaker 3: the allegation there. There are some women online, uh and
Speaker 3: you know who who mentioned that they had received some
Speaker 3: intimate photography, uh from from his wroth.
Speaker 9: And you know this this big not last long, but
Speaker 9: I mean my whole desire to not kind of go
Speaker 9: after the piers, so this is lasting very long. It's
Speaker 9: all waking up very well. Now I'm talking about him
Speaker 9: sending women dick pics. He's the Anthony Wiener of horror.
Speaker 3: The Anthony Wiener of horror, allegedly. So I mean, you know,
Speaker 3: I have to say that I have not either an
Speaker 3: over verifiable Eli Roth dick pigs available. I looked in
Speaker 3: the interest of journalistic integrity entirely, and you know, because
Speaker 3: I just wanted to see. And so it's not verifiable.
Speaker 3: We we don't know that that actually happened, which is
Speaker 3: probably another good reason not to talk about it.
Speaker 9: It doesn't need to send women dick picks though, That's
Speaker 9: the crazy thing. I mean, Eli Roth. You know it
Speaker 9: was a famous guy's a good looking guy. Girls like
Speaker 9: him anyway, Just him texting a woman is probably going
Speaker 9: to facilitate an exchange of bodily fluids. He doesn't to
Speaker 9: send his dick picks.
Speaker 3: But people have weird pathologies, don't they, you know, And
Speaker 3: so I like, who knows if that is true? You know,
Speaker 3: like we have no way of verifying whether Eli Roth.
Speaker 9: Since all right, this is a rabbit hole I don't
Speaker 9: want to continue diving into. We have enough nasty stuff
Speaker 9: to get into without talking about his penis. When eli
Speaker 9: Roth was spouting off against the social justice Warriors. I
Speaker 9: saw somebody make the comment, you know one thing I
Speaker 9: hate more than a social justice warrior or anti social
Speaker 9: justice warriors, and I started to see the phrase antsjw's, antsjw's,
Speaker 9: and I thought, you know what, they need their own name.
Speaker 9: They need a name for that group. So I thought
Speaker 9: about it for a while and I couldn't come up
Speaker 9: with anything. And then on the finale of Community season six,
Speaker 9: Keith David, referring to the group of students arbitrarily calls
Speaker 9: them the nipple dippers, and I thought, that's perfect is
Speaker 9: it actually doesn't really mean anything. And the other thing
Speaker 9: that's perfect about it is Dan Harmon, the creator of Community.
Speaker 9: As funny as he is, as inventive and brilliant and
Speaker 9: creative as he is, he strikes me as something of
Speaker 9: a nipple dipper because one of the characters on the show,
Speaker 9: the Brita character, becomes his excuse to just land based
Speaker 9: the so called social justice Warriors, and the only time
Speaker 9: really serious political ideas are introduced to the show is
Speaker 9: when they're making fun of Britain for having the pretense
Speaker 9: to have any concern.
Speaker 3: About them, which is pretty nipple dippery.
Speaker 9: It's classic nipple dipperology right there.
Speaker 3: That's dipperology one O one. The current trend in branding
Speaker 3: is unique, simplistic, phonetically memorable gibberish. How about nipple dippers?
Speaker 2: I like, is available done?
Speaker 9: So what is an anti SJW. Actually, you came up
Speaker 9: with a good phrase before when you said they were
Speaker 9: status quo warriors. Yeah, that and that could be a
Speaker 9: good term for them too, the status quo warriors.
Speaker 3: And that's really I mean, if you want a real
Speaker 3: shorthand understanding, that's what it is. It's status quot warriors.
Speaker 3: It's like, we want things the same, we want things
Speaker 3: the way they've always been. You know, I want my
Speaker 3: peanut butter and jelly with cross cut off, and I
Speaker 3: want it cut diagonally and I want it diirved with
Speaker 3: some apple slices and a glass of milk. And if
Speaker 3: you deviate at all, we're going to have a problem.
Speaker 9: That's why a guy like Eli Roth says things like
Speaker 9: what's ruining horror movies right now is political correctness. What
Speaker 9: he means by that is I don't want to have
Speaker 9: to think or hear from perspectives from marginalized groups. And
Speaker 9: this is the defining traits of the nipple dipp They
Speaker 9: don't want to hear from gays and lesbians and women
Speaker 9: and Indians and black people and any kind of traditionally
Speaker 9: repressed group that previously didn't have a voice in mainstream culture. Today,
Speaker 9: it's a very different landscape. These people now have a voice,
Speaker 9: and the nipple dippers just can't stand it, to the
Speaker 9: point where when they're forced to have to listen, they
Speaker 9: fly into fits of apoplectic rage.
Speaker 27: You don't like these TV shows, you don't like these movies,
Speaker 27: you don't like these video games, you don't like these comics,
Speaker 27: you don't like this music.
Speaker 25: You'll like any of the stuff. Don't just leave, just
Speaker 25: go away. We're listening to it. Quick reading it, quit
Speaker 25: playing it. Just put the shit down and shut the
Speaker 25: fuck up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is a sight to behold. I mean, I
Speaker 3: think I think Eli retweeted that guy's video right, just
Speaker 3: maniac screaming, you know, shot the fucker. I mean, it's incredible.
Speaker 3: And now we've got this the banded Star Wars campaign.
Speaker 3: You know, like that that is you know, largely being
Speaker 3: brought out, largely entirely being brought on by nipple dippers.
Speaker 3: You know, they want to band the band the new
Speaker 3: Star Wars movie because they feel that the black lead
Speaker 3: character is just a just a bridge too far. It's
Speaker 3: white genocide. They're calling it white genocide because there's a
Speaker 3: black lead character in the film. A journalist ends up
Speaker 3: criticizing the film, saying that the lead characters, the countries
Speaker 3: that they're all from don't even have space programs, So
Speaker 3: how could why would you cast them as Star Wars.
Speaker 3: You know, they didn't even go to the space. White
Speaker 3: people went to space. White people, you know, developed the
Speaker 3: space program. How are you putting non whites into space?
Speaker 3: I mean, this is the this is the mentality that's
Speaker 3: going on here. That one guy even said, all these
Speaker 3: white suburban kids who bought all your toys and made
Speaker 3: this a billion dollar franchise are being betrayed by this film.
Speaker 3: They called jj abrams juju abrams, like this is the
Speaker 3: level that the discourse is coming out at. And this
Speaker 3: is just because there's a black Stormtrooper dude in a
Speaker 3: Star Wars movie.
Speaker 32: Throughout elementary school, junior high, high school, and college, I
Speaker 32: was told that my race, the white race, was the
Speaker 32: cause of all the world's problems. Now many of you
Speaker 32: had jobs where minorities say things that would get you,
Speaker 32: as a white person, instantly fired.
Speaker 20: This conditioning is done to white people, and only white people.
Speaker 20: White children, and only white children are being affected by this,
Speaker 20: and only white countries are doing.
Speaker 32: The Aztecs conquered many surrounding Native American tribes, practiced human
Speaker 32: sacrifice and health slaves.
Speaker 10: Yet anti racist don't say that Mexicans must apologize forever
Speaker 10: and have their lands forcibly flooded with non Mexicans and
Speaker 10: be forced to assimilate.
Speaker 32: Anti racist is a code word for anti white.
Speaker 9: Now what you're describing, though, is an obviously extreme white
Speaker 9: supremist point of view. Yeah, that they don't want to
Speaker 9: hear from black people because who the hell a black peple?
Speaker 9: They shouldn't be on a level playing field with white people.
Speaker 9: That's their kind of agenda to begin with. That's their
Speaker 9: sort of philosophical disposition. But a lot of nipple dippers
Speaker 9: don't realize that they're racist. But when they do hear
Speaker 9: these voices, or they're forced to engage with voices from
Speaker 9: women and voices from ethnic minorities, it kind of picks away,
Speaker 9: even subconsciously at their cultural primacy and rather than feel like, oh, okay,
Speaker 9: let's let these people join the conversation. Finally, they see
Speaker 9: it as a threat to their status in the world,
Speaker 9: and it provokes this kind of fearful reactionary rejection which
Speaker 9: results in them just literally flipping out, like screaming to
Speaker 9: shut the fuck up, and just like thrashing about on
Speaker 9: the floor. And I'm sure if there's any nipple dippers listening,
Speaker 9: they've already probably had to have been administered medication by
Speaker 9: this point already. But I mean, this is the problem.
Speaker 9: It's just a failure of perspective to think that when
Speaker 9: an indigenous group critiques something happening in the popular culture,
Speaker 9: this isn't a threat to white people. This is another
Speaker 9: group kind of raising their visibility to be equal with
Speaker 9: white people, to have a say in the discussion.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, I mean, and that's all they're asking for. They're
Speaker 3: just asking to say, hey, please recognize us as people
Speaker 3: and not as cartoons as props. Yeah, you know, as
Speaker 3: these rote caricatures were more than that. And then that's
Speaker 3: really that's really all they're asking anybody to do is
Speaker 3: consider them in that fashion.
Speaker 9: And of course this now becomes kind of central to
Speaker 9: the discussion of The Green and Fano because the only
Speaker 9: real controversy surrounding the film, there was never a real
Speaker 9: controversy in mainstream culture. Nobody even really paid attention to
Speaker 9: the film in mainstream culture. The horror press just kind
Speaker 9: of gobbled up anything Eli had to say, and fans
Speaker 9: just kind of weighed in and typical, you know, either
Speaker 9: supporting the film or dismissing the film, largely based on
Speaker 9: whether it was a good film or not. Nobody really
Speaker 9: wanted to examine the racial representations in the film. The
Speaker 9: only people making a mealize that we're seetain indigenous groups who,
Speaker 9: from what I could see, consistently reject the film and
Speaker 9: denounce the racial representations in the film. And this really
Speaker 9: should be a no brain it because The Green Infano
Speaker 9: is based on a retrograde racial stereotype. And it's one
Speaker 9: thing to go back to nineteen eighty and watch like
Speaker 9: Cannibal Holocaust, where part of the fun of that is
Speaker 9: kind of wincing at how sort of politically naive it
Speaker 9: is to have these retrograde racial representations. But in twenty fifteen,
Speaker 9: it almost seems inexcusable that somebody would kind of pedal
Speaker 9: in these representations without no real awareness of the impact
Speaker 9: it would have on the cultures that it's reflecting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I mean and to that end, like you
Speaker 3: better have a good reason, like you're if you're going
Speaker 3: to cross that line and wound this group of people,
Speaker 3: which is what you're doing, right, I mean, you're their
Speaker 3: public image. You're contributing to a really really negative stereotypes
Speaker 3: amount their people that you wouldn't tolerate. You know that
Speaker 3: you certainly wouldn't appreciate being heaped upon yours if you're
Speaker 3: going to do that. And I'm not saying you can't,
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, if you're going to, you need to
Speaker 3: have a real good reason, you know, give us something
Speaker 3: good in return, give give us a payoff for that.
Speaker 9: I think if Eli walked into a producer's office and said,
Speaker 9: here's my next project. It's a horror film. It's a
Speaker 9: bunch of tourists. They go to Harlem, they get captured
Speaker 9: by a black family. They get taken back to a
Speaker 9: crack house and cooked in a big potts. They engage
Speaker 9: in this like African tribal ceremony. Then they all eat
Speaker 9: the white people, you know, unless like maybe Lloyd Coffin
Speaker 9: could pull that off. Actually, but unless it was Lord Lloyd. Yeah,
Speaker 9: unless it was done so knowingly with a satirical point
Speaker 9: of view, I mean, nobody would have a fund that film.
Speaker 9: And there's a big reason for that. It's that black
Speaker 9: people have a visibility in the culture. They already went
Speaker 9: through their own sort of legacy in terms of pushing
Speaker 9: their identity front and center into the popular culture. The
Speaker 9: Black Expolitation movement roots was a big thing, obviously, and
Speaker 9: obviously it's not fully there because you see the way
Speaker 9: people react to a black James Bond or a black
Speaker 9: Star Wars. I mean they lose this shit. But that's
Speaker 9: a more nuanced end of the discussion. The point is
Speaker 9: nobody would think of pedling in such retrograde representations with
Speaker 9: black people the way you do with indigenous people. Why
Speaker 9: they haven't had their movement into the popular culture. They
Speaker 9: exist more visibly now because of the Internet, if you're
Speaker 9: willing to take a look at what they have to
Speaker 9: say on the Internet rather than just mock their activist
Speaker 9: groups like that infamous Green and Fano poster was doing.
Speaker 9: But these people do exist, and they do have a
Speaker 9: perspective that has largely been castigated from popular consciousness. Nobody
Speaker 9: is discussing the racial representations of the Green and Finn
Speaker 9: in the mainstream press. It's just not happening.
Speaker 3: And it's because of how we value Aboriginal lives. Right
Speaker 3: We certainly value them a whole hell of a lot
Speaker 3: less than we value white lives. We certainly value their
Speaker 3: voices a hell of a lot less than we value
Speaker 3: white voices. We value their voices a hell of a
Speaker 3: lot less than I think we value black voices. Or like,
Speaker 3: they're so so far down on the ladder in terms
Speaker 3: of our cultural recognition of them. And maybe maybe this
Speaker 3: is guilt. Maybe this is like we can't look at them,
Speaker 3: we can't see them. We know what we did, you know,
Speaker 3: like we know that we did an irreparable harm to
Speaker 3: these people, and we just can't even we just can't
Speaker 3: even acknowledge them anymore. Maybe that's it. But whatever it is,
Speaker 3: we're not doing it. We're ignoring them. I mean, in
Speaker 3: this in our country right now, you know that there's
Speaker 3: that trail of tears, that that that highway where all
Speaker 3: those Aboriginal women have been disappearing for years. I think
Speaker 3: maybe it's been a victim of a you know, a
Speaker 3: serial killer. They're thinking Robert Picton for a while, or
Speaker 3: some other killer prowling the area. And what we've learned
Speaker 3: now is that you know, the r c MP and
Speaker 3: government ministries and you know all these other you know,
Speaker 3: law enforcement bodies who should be investigating this problem and
Speaker 3: should be attempting to find these women and and find
Speaker 3: out what happened to them and bring their killers to justice.
Speaker 3: And what they did instead was that they triple deleted
Speaker 3: the files and the emails and all this stuff so
Speaker 3: that they were impossible to recover, you know, just just
Speaker 3: to wash it away, just to say, you know what,
Speaker 3: forget about it. Let's let's forget it. It's China to
Speaker 3: you know, just walk away. And that tells you right
Speaker 3: there how much we value our Aboriginal lives here in Canada.
Speaker 9: A couple of years ago, Prime Minister Harper released a
Speaker 9: statement that people have been waiting to listen to for
Speaker 9: a generation or more, and a lot of people were
Speaker 9: critical that the statement in no way goes far enough
Speaker 9: to address the situation, but he apologized for the whole
Speaker 9: treatment of Natives in the residential school system, which is
Speaker 9: basically Canada's genocide and for people who are unaware of
Speaker 9: what happened is Native kids were pulled away from their
Speaker 9: families and sent to these like Catholic boarding schools where
Speaker 9: they were tortured, defiled, raped, and sometimes killed. And it's
Speaker 9: a kind of a deep rift in our cultural psyche
Speaker 9: that we haven't come to terms with. Same with our
Speaker 9: neighbors to the south of the border. The Native exploitation,
Speaker 9: the colonial occupation of Native land, and the repression of
Speaker 9: Indigenous peoples is something we haven't remotely come to terms with.
Speaker 9: They haven't had a roots, you know. The closest they've
Speaker 9: got us dancers with wolves, which glorifies Kevin Costner as
Speaker 9: a savior.
Speaker 3: A white savior.
Speaker 9: And I think this leaves most of the population just
Speaker 9: unaway of how to deal with it. So rather than
Speaker 9: face this ugly part of our collective past, people choose
Speaker 9: to bury their heads in the sand. I had a
Speaker 9: really interesting comment, and I'm not going to mention their
Speaker 9: name because I don't think they were really listening closely
Speaker 9: to anything that I've been talking about with regards to
Speaker 9: this subject. I think it was just a kneejach response.
Speaker 9: But I was challenging that shock till you drop condemnation
Speaker 9: about us falling for the marketing campaign. And I mentioned
Speaker 9: in passing that the big challenge for Bluemhouse was how
Speaker 9: do you sell a cannibal movie in twenty fifteen that
Speaker 9: pedals in retrograde racial stereotypes. And I concluded that guess what,
Speaker 9: you can't hence why the Green Inveno flopped at the
Speaker 9: box office.
Speaker 3: Fucking care.
Speaker 9: So this person comes along, and keep in mind this
Speaker 9: is a well respected DVD distributed and producer of cinnementaries
Speaker 9: and a filmmaker in his own rights, and he accused
Speaker 9: me of being a sensorial voice in horror and compared
Speaker 9: me to Mary Whitehouse, which, of course, to any horror fan,
Speaker 9: that is a horrible comparison to make. I mean, it's
Speaker 9: a defensive one to make to any horror fan to
Speaker 9: compare them to Mary white House, one of the great
Speaker 9: demons against the horror genre.
Speaker 33: The early nineteen eighties marked a revolution in video technology.
Speaker 33: For the first time, courtesy of the VCR, people had
Speaker 33: the means to watch films in the comfort of their
Speaker 33: own homes if they had five hundred quid and a
Speaker 33: Pickford van to get it home. But surprise, surprise, it
Speaker 33: wasn't Panorama they were watching. Almost immediately, unregulated and uncensored
Speaker 33: films became available to hire, uncut from your local video shop. Gory, graphic,
Speaker 33: and gratuitous. These films were flying off the shells and
Speaker 33: leaving viewers so traumatized they could.
Speaker 9: Barely reach for the eject button.
Speaker 33: Fake blood, vacant stairs, and let's be honest, some pretty
Speaker 33: shoddy acting became the hallmarks of what the tabloids quickly
Speaker 33: dubbed the video nasty.
Speaker 24: You know, people who say that why shouldn't adults be
Speaker 24: able to see this kind of thing in their own home?
Speaker 24: I'm half tempted to say that people who make that
Speaker 24: kind of demand, knowing that children are likely to see it,
Speaker 24: aren't really themselves very mature.
Speaker 3: And I don't What I find more offensive about it
Speaker 3: is that you're being accused of this for just critiquing
Speaker 3: something and having a closure look, having the discussion that
Speaker 3: they're saying they want to product.
Speaker 9: Well, here's the thing. I wasn't even condemned the Green
Speaker 9: Inferno for peddling in racial stereotypes. I was just pointing out,
Speaker 9: matter of factly that that's what it does by virtue
Speaker 9: of the fact that it's a cannibal movie. I mean,
Speaker 9: I think this is a no brainer. This isn't even
Speaker 9: something that's up for debate. I mean, I'd love for
Speaker 9: somebody to come along and say, well, actually, you've got
Speaker 9: it all wrong. The Green Inferno is really a really
Speaker 9: positive view of Indigenous people. Actually, the only person trying
Speaker 9: to make that argument is Eli Roth, who has continuously said,
Speaker 9: wait till you see the movie. Guys, it's totally on
Speaker 9: the side of the natives. Amazon watched love that it
Speaker 9: was on the side of the natives. No, they didn't
Speaker 9: hate it the movie. Oh, I mean Manga Bay loved No,
Speaker 9: Manga Bay hated it too. He's like, nobody thinks it's
Speaker 9: on the side of the natives, Eli, But anyway, he's
Speaker 9: the only person that seems to think there's a positive
Speaker 9: racial representation there. I think it's a pretty much a
Speaker 9: no brainer for anybody involved that, Yes, when you depict
Speaker 9: the movie where indigenous tribes in Peru are flesh eating cannibals,
Speaker 9: that's reverting back to this whole view of Indigenous people.
Speaker 9: It's just ruthless savages. I'm not saying sense of the
Speaker 9: movie or boycott the movie, or he was wrong to
Speaker 9: do that. I'm just pointing out, a matter of factly,
Speaker 9: that's what he's doing. And they have to sell this
Speaker 9: movie based on this, and it's a really tricky sell.
Speaker 9: Hence why Bloomhouse really failed to find proper traction with
Speaker 9: their marketing campaign, and hence all the flip flopping that
Speaker 9: they were doing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't even get. I don't get how you
Speaker 3: sell this movie. I don't, especially when you see the
Speaker 3: final product, right, I mean, how do you sell that?
Speaker 3: It's like I said before, it's missing that element that
Speaker 3: redeems or even attempts to redeem the regressive portrayal. Right,
Speaker 3: you need that in order to make this something that
Speaker 3: you can sell to people, and it lacks it. There's
Speaker 3: nothing that redeems any of it.
Speaker 5: The film came about from what I saw in this
Speaker 5: trend of this lazy form of activism, this slacktivis, and
Speaker 5: everyone's like, if you don't tweet free pussy riot, what's
Speaker 5: wrong with you? Don't you care about these girls? Oh
Speaker 5: you must be against freedom to speek. People are getting
Speaker 5: so self righteous and so angry over this thing that
Speaker 5: they knew nothing about twenty four hours earlier.
Speaker 2: I wanted to make a.
Speaker 5: Movie about these types of kids, these kids that aren't
Speaker 5: really interested in the cause they want the shortcut.
Speaker 3: I am so sick of all of them.
Speaker 5: So I'm taking these people and i am baking them,
Speaker 5: and I'm chopping them up, and I'm eating them and
Speaker 5: I'm laughing at them.
Speaker 9: So to pick up where we left off with Jungle
Speaker 9: Gate Volume two, following those episodes, I went back and
Speaker 9: I actually spend some time reading through a lot of
Speaker 9: the Instagram comments on Amerindian fourteen ninety one's account, and
Speaker 9: it was really interesting to see the perspective from indigenous people,
Speaker 9: from natives, how they feel about these representations in the culture. Now,
Speaker 9: of course, we're both grown ups. We've been horror fans
Speaker 9: for a long time. We've seen cannibal movies going back decades.
Speaker 9: We're not gonna spe squeamish at a cannibal movie. In fact,
Speaker 9: when I even first hit that Eli Roth was gonna
Speaker 9: make a cannibal movie called The Green Infano, my fast
Speaker 9: reaction was, well, what a fantastic title. Of course you're
Speaker 9: gonna call it The Green in ferdo right.
Speaker 3: It's great title, it's spectacular.
Speaker 9: But I'm a white guy who gives a fuck what
Speaker 9: I think about the racial representation. It's not my culture
Speaker 9: being reflected in there.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's it's certainly not my culture, I mean,
Speaker 3: or barely my culture. So we're not tuned in in
Speaker 3: that way, we're not on that wavelength. The perspectives of
Speaker 3: natives have not sort of breached the cultural surface so
Speaker 3: that people like us can be properly sensitized to them.
Speaker 9: So here's a choice one has with a situation like
Speaker 9: this one. You can be like a nipple dippy and
Speaker 9: just completely dismiss the indigenous perspective. Don't engage in it,
Speaker 9: don't listen to it, don't think about it, don't seek
Speaker 9: it out, completely block it out of your consciousness. And
Speaker 9: if it still pops up and gets in your face somehow,
Speaker 9: you scream at it to shut the fuck up.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you just gotta pound that shit down there, that
Speaker 3: that nail is going in there, that you know that
Speaker 3: it that floorboard will never fucking creak again. You got
Speaker 3: to make sure.
Speaker 11: Shut the fuck up.
Speaker 9: Or how about just being curious about it and just wondering,
Speaker 9: you know what, what does a young person of indigenous
Speaker 9: descent think when they go on YouTube and they see
Speaker 9: a trailer for a movie like The Green and Finnal
Speaker 9: that's just wallowing in these retrograde racial stereotypes. How does
Speaker 9: that impact a young Indigenous person and a Native growing
Speaker 9: up in this culture where the report presentations of their
Speaker 9: people are largely being determined by other cultures and are
Speaker 9: largely very negative and repressive by nature, how would you feel?
Speaker 9: I know if I was like a sixteen year old
Speaker 9: Native kid growing up in all of this stuff, give
Speaker 9: them my disposition, I would fucking hate white people. So
Speaker 9: by going through Ammerindian's posts and I'll provide links to
Speaker 9: all this stuff if people want to play along at home,
Speaker 9: you really get a sense of the frustration these young
Speaker 9: Native people feel with seeing their culture reflected in the mainstream.
Speaker 9: So I want to read a few comments because I
Speaker 9: think this will help illustrate exactly the perspective we're talking about,
Speaker 9: not that the mainstream how oppress haven't been doing this
Speaker 9: and a good job of doing it. Of course, not
Speaker 9: to be redundant, it's exactly.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, we don't mean to pile on,
Speaker 3: but you know, I guess we need to make our point.
Speaker 9: The comment that I think made the most impact on me,
Speaker 9: and I couldn't actually trace it back to its souce,
Speaker 9: so I forget who said this, But somebody said, I'm
Speaker 9: sick of being trapped in the white man's imagination.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's powerful. I mean, just just an imagery alone,
Speaker 3: that's a that's a powerful statement. But when you think
Speaker 3: about its implications and realizing that people aren't seeing you
Speaker 3: as anything more than a loose collection of stereotypes.
Speaker 9: You know, if people are having a hard time kind
Speaker 9: of getting their head around trying to look at this
Speaker 9: from an indigenous point of view, let me point out that.
Speaker 9: And I'm sure everybody has felt this way with respects
Speaker 9: to something specific to them, when they see things reflected
Speaker 9: in the culture that doesn't accurately represent something that they
Speaker 9: understand fundamentally. Me I'm particularly sensitive too. For instance, when
Speaker 9: I saw Alex Cox's Sid Nancy, which is a great
Speaker 9: portrait of Sid Nancy's relationship, but it's a completely wrongheaded
Speaker 9: and dismissive view of the sex pistols and their importance
Speaker 9: because it's actually based on the Nancy Sponging book, which
Speaker 9: is completely dismissive of the pistols. And as much as
Speaker 9: Alex Cock seems to think he was doing all his research,
Speaker 9: he actually gets it really wrong. So, as a lifelong
Speaker 9: pistols aficionado and devotee, I really resented how they were
Speaker 9: portrayed in the movie Sid Nancy. I have a friend
Speaker 9: who's a jazz musician and I saw the movie Whiplash,
Speaker 9: and I wrote to him and said, wasn't that fantastic?
Speaker 9: He said, well, the jazz is really like all over
Speaker 9: the place in that. And I guess he's got a
Speaker 9: friend who's a trumpet player who hates the movie because
Speaker 9: of how wrong the jazz is in the film. And
Speaker 9: I'm sure anybody's had that experience, you know, if you're
Speaker 9: a car mechanic, for instance, I'm sure the Fast and
Speaker 9: the Furious films play loose with the rules of car mechanics.
Speaker 9: I have no idea. I don't know enough about that will,
Speaker 9: but I'm sure everybody can relate.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you're like a like a computer hacker or something,
Speaker 3: I'm reasonably certain that any sort of computer hacking scene
Speaker 3: in any movie ever hasn't just been the most frustrating
Speaker 3: exercise possible where you're just screaming at the screen of
Speaker 3: side out. It fucking works. What are you're fucking getting me?
Speaker 9: Fuck, anybody who owns a computer reacts.
Speaker 3: That way exactly.
Speaker 9: So I mean it's like, I gotta even get my
Speaker 9: computer to boot up properly, and these guys are like
Speaker 9: lugging in in two seconds flat. They've cracked the nuclear codes.
Speaker 3: Exactly exactly, Like Hollywood has just not found a non
Speaker 3: absurd way to portray that particular thing, and it drives
Speaker 3: people crazy and it sticks out and it rings untrue.
Speaker 3: And I think that's what gets us is that it
Speaker 3: offends a certain sense of moral justice. We expect there
Speaker 3: to be right, Like, no, this rings false to me,
Speaker 3: and I want to correct falsehood.
Speaker 9: So it's not a stretch to understand that this is
Speaker 9: how indigenous people feel when their culture is maligned in
Speaker 9: these ways. And it's much more serious than pissing somebody
Speaker 9: off because they're a fan of music or their occupation
Speaker 9: or something. This is a culture, a culture that's been
Speaker 9: subjected to genocide and repression and continues to be subjected
Speaker 9: to those forces, especially the indigenous people in the Amazon
Speaker 9: who are under threat daily from genocidal programs infiltrated by
Speaker 9: big business interests in the region.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, there's absolutely no question that this is
Speaker 3: several orders of magnitude more important. However, I will bet
Speaker 3: you dollars to donuts that were you to google the
Speaker 3: two issues, you will find far more forums filled with
Speaker 3: people complaining about how inaccurate the movie Hackers was versus
Speaker 3: you know, people complaining about how accurate the portrayal of
Speaker 3: Native Peruvians is in The Green Inferno.
Speaker 9: Here's another comment that really made an impact on me.
Speaker 9: It's from a woman named o Prido. That's her Instagram account.
Speaker 9: She seems to be a young teenage Indigenous girl. Here
Speaker 9: response to the trailer was as follows. She said, this
Speaker 9: really got to me. I'm heartbroken. They white supremacy is
Speaker 9: always attacking our people, people of color. I'm in tears
Speaker 9: right now. Our people from the South need us more
Speaker 9: than ever. Let's show them we are not separate, that
Speaker 9: it doesn't matter the distance nor time, we will always
Speaker 9: be there for each other. We are not extinct. We
Speaker 9: are the Rebate movement. We are indigenous natives of this land.
Speaker 9: Now you might think, Okay, she's probably like a sixteen
Speaker 9: year old girl, maybe she's a bit hypersensitive, touch hyperbolic,
Speaker 9: but that's here visceral response stration the pain that she
Speaker 9: feels living in a culture where this repression is a
Speaker 9: daily fucking fact.
Speaker 3: The term that really sticks out to me, and that
Speaker 3: is interesting because it is hyperbolic and yet not at
Speaker 3: all hyperbolic, is extinction when she talks about the extinction
Speaker 3: of her people, because that's a very real fear and concern.
Speaker 3: You know, when Star Wars fans talk about white genocide,
Speaker 3: it's hard to take that seriously when you're compared with
Speaker 3: this girl's really anguished expression about the possible collapse an
Speaker 3: end of her culture and her line. I mean, this
Speaker 3: is so, this is a real genocide, and the use
Speaker 3: of that word extinct just is so damn tragic to me.
Speaker 9: I named Lindsay. That's actually his Instagram account. Guy named
Speaker 9: Lindsay said, if anyone wants to collaborate on a truthful
Speaker 9: film about what really goes on when Europeans set foot
Speaker 9: on Indigenous land, hit me up. I've got the equipment
Speaker 9: and the time. Of course, that's the great irony about
Speaker 9: the Green Inferno is to castigate the Indigenous people as
Speaker 9: the ruthless savages when history tells a completely different tale.
Speaker 9: History tells the story of how it's the white European
Speaker 9: colonial conquerors who were the savages who subjected these people
Speaker 9: to torture and genocide and illness and death and repression
Speaker 9: and exploitation. It's the white guys who are the bad guys.
Speaker 14: Now.
Speaker 9: Eli seemed to think the white people were the bad
Speaker 9: guys in the Green Inferno. But that's only because Eli
Speaker 9: is a deeply confused human being, which I think we
Speaker 9: all understand. By this point, you must.
Speaker 3: Admit it's exceptional footage.
Speaker 30: I didn't expect such impact, such authenticity.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I don't think exception was the right word.
Speaker 27: You don't, no, I mean, what's exceptional about a primitive
Speaker 27: tribe your crumo be terrorized and forced into doing something
Speaker 27: that they don't normally.
Speaker 29: Just come on, now, professor, let's be realistic. Who knows
Speaker 29: anything about the echo civilization today? People want sensationalists. The
Speaker 29: more you rape their senses, the happier they are.
Speaker 3: What I like about this guy's remark is that it's
Speaker 3: it's so enthusiastic, it's got this like it's hopeful. It's like,
Speaker 3: let's go and let's go and do our own thing.
Speaker 3: Let's let's build our own you know, media, let's let's
Speaker 3: tell our own stories.
Speaker 9: Well, it's like what roots did for slavery. This story
Speaker 9: will eventually come out. There'll be a mini series that
Speaker 9: explores the true colonial repression of Indigenous people. It'll be
Speaker 9: called like Fuck Columbus Day, the Mini Series or something.
Speaker 3: They'll finally make a proper film version of you know,
Speaker 3: Bill Burrow's Thanksgiving Prayer or something like that, and just
Speaker 3: horrify a whole nation as it should, you know, and
Speaker 3: this will finally just you know, we'll confront it. We'll
Speaker 3: confront it somehow, we'll grapple with it somehow.
Speaker 9: And to expand upon the same point, somebody joined in
Speaker 9: and said, I hate it when they make white people
Speaker 9: innocent and Indigenous people bloodthirsty, Like seriously, it was white
Speaker 9: people that came here and raped the women, whilst the
Speaker 9: others burned their homes and stole their culture just so
Speaker 9: their descendants could appropriate it. And of course all of
Speaker 9: this really begs the question is to what degree do
Speaker 9: you think Eli Roth, setting out to make this movie
Speaker 9: really stop to think about these types of perspectives. Have
Speaker 9: they simply just taken him by surprise, like he's made
Speaker 9: the movies put it out there, and it's getting the
Speaker 9: kind of reaction Basonally, I haven't seen any Indigenous people
Speaker 9: actually champion the film or defend the film, but I
Speaker 9: have seen a wide spread rejection of the movie. Any
Speaker 9: article that I've seen from like a Native website or
Speaker 9: a magazine or something that has been uniformally denouncing Eli's film.
Speaker 9: Do you think he was aware that this was the
Speaker 9: reaction that he was going to get with the movie.
Speaker 3: I don't see how it's possible that he couldn't, being
Speaker 3: that The one thing that we, I think everybody knows
Speaker 3: and admires about Eli Roth, and the thing that I
Speaker 3: think makes us hopeful that he has a masterful piece
Speaker 3: of cinema in him is that he is an adherent
Speaker 3: to genre of culture. He knows the films, you know,
Speaker 3: I mean he titled this film the Green Inferto. You know,
Speaker 3: he knows the origins of this story, he knows the
Speaker 3: places that he's pulling this film from, and so surely
Speaker 3: he also knows the reactions to cannibal Holocaust. So as
Speaker 3: a student of this film, you know, as someone who
Speaker 3: respects it the way he claims to, and someone who
Speaker 3: has the breadth of knowledge about it that he must have.
Speaker 3: He can't not know. There's no way he can't know.
Speaker 3: It's impossible.
Speaker 9: Somebody named Tucker's five five six showed up to say,
Speaker 9: and this is a common nipple dipper expression. You hear
Speaker 9: it applied all the time ad nauseum. They said, dude,
Speaker 9: it's just a movie.
Speaker 12: Keep repeating in his only movie, it take as.
Speaker 9: Much as you can only And the astonishing thing about
Speaker 9: that point of view is that, yeah, it's a movie,
Speaker 9: i e. The most powerful and influential form of mass
Speaker 9: communication ever devised by human beings in the history of
Speaker 9: planet Earth. Yes, that's a movie, just a movie. So
Speaker 9: then Amerindian fourteen ninety one counters this with what I
Speaker 9: think is a really sensible statement that actually illustrates the
Speaker 9: point perfectly. He said, with the movie The Green and
Speaker 9: Ferno coming out, I wanted to make a point of
Speaker 9: how perception is reality. For those who want to argue
Speaker 9: that it's just a movie, then they are denying the
Speaker 9: influence of films, even in a horror movie. How did
Speaker 9: the Native Americans of the United States get the stereotype
Speaker 9: that we were bloodthirsty savages? Just look at the Cowboy
Speaker 9: and Indians movies from the fifties. I just read an
Speaker 9: article about the movie Sideways, where one of the character
Speaker 9: loves drinking red wine Pino Noir while shitting on the
Speaker 9: more popular wine at the time, Melow. Following the film's release,
Speaker 9: Melow sales dropped two percent, while Pino Noir jumped sixteen percent.
Speaker 9: There is one hundred more examples of how films can influence,
Speaker 9: from all Arabs and terrorists to all Asian women love
Speaker 9: white men. So even though this movie director, who actually
Speaker 9: played one of my favorite characters in Glorious Bastards, assured
Speaker 9: me that by the end of the film we will
Speaker 9: be rooting for the Amazon Indians and looking at the
Speaker 9: big oil companies as the true savages, I still have
Speaker 9: my doubts.
Speaker 14: Antonio Margaradi, and I think that's just a really perfect
Speaker 14: way of explaining how films actually impact our view of
Speaker 14: the world more so than any other media.
Speaker 9: Motion pictures and their more insidious offspring television are the
Speaker 9: most powerful mass communication.
Speaker 3: Tools we have.
Speaker 9: They will do more to influence our view of the
Speaker 9: world than literature, the music certainly more or an interpretive
Speaker 9: dance exactly.
Speaker 3: And this is why you know this is an extremely
Speaker 3: important comment because in it, Ammerindian shows a greater respect
Speaker 3: for the medium than this person who feels like they're
Speaker 3: a defender of the medium. You know that they're going
Speaker 3: to there to protect this medium.
Speaker 9: Amerindian points out the whole Pino noir thing from Sideways,
Speaker 9: which I actually didn't know until I read that comment.
Speaker 9: But it doesn't surprise me at all. I mean, that
Speaker 9: was such a famous part of that movie, and it
Speaker 9: was the first time that I ever thought what people
Speaker 9: look down on Mellow, actually they don't. That's sort of
Speaker 9: a fallacy in the film that that character just has
Speaker 9: a peculiar hang up on Melo. But I think people
Speaker 9: whine is like one of those things that nobody understands.
Speaker 9: It's like the Emperor's New Clothes sort of thing, Like
Speaker 9: everyone wants to think that they're Somalia when they don't
Speaker 9: even can't even tell a cheap bottle of plunk from
Speaker 9: a fine vintage or even understand it unless they're educated
Speaker 9: in it or come from a culture of it. But
Speaker 9: nobody wants to look ignorant. So I could totally see
Speaker 9: that that moment in Sideways would make people react. I've
Speaker 9: actually seen it. I've actually seen people since that movie Melow.
Speaker 9: Oh no, Melow. I would never drink Malow. Are you crazy?
Speaker 9: But I did read Alexander Paine said, well, there's actually
Speaker 9: nothing wrong with Malow. It's just that character had a
Speaker 9: peculiar quake, and that's all that was based on. And
Speaker 9: perhaps the most insidious example we have in history of
Speaker 9: how films influence public opinion is the success of D. W.
Speaker 9: Griffith's Birth of a Nation, which lionizes the ku Klux Klan,
Speaker 9: which at the time were in decline. They were practically extinct,
Speaker 9: but the popularity of that film brought about a huge,
Speaker 9: massive resurgence in the ku Klux Klan. So that is
Speaker 9: like a crystal clear historical example of how filmed, yes
Speaker 9: only films, influence and shape public opinion.
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean, this is the thing. It's so clear.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't understand how people who perhaps they
Speaker 3: haven't heard of like Lenny Reefinstahl, you know, like like
Speaker 3: maybe they've just never seen any of those, you know,
Speaker 3: the Nazi propaganda films. And I hate to go there
Speaker 3: because you know people are gonna say, oh, you had
Speaker 3: to invoke the Nazis, and you know, you can't make
Speaker 3: your point without bringing the bloody Nazis into it. But
Speaker 3: I mean, really think about it. It was radio and
Speaker 3: cinema that really propelled Hitler to power. The ability to
Speaker 3: project his voice and the voice of his spokespeople into
Speaker 3: people's homes through radio, through that field of mass communication
Speaker 3: was so immensely powerful, and he used it to his advantage.
Speaker 3: And then by getting a reef install involved and bringing
Speaker 3: that power the cinema and combining the sound with the image,
Speaker 3: and so you had these the oratory that that he
Speaker 3: was known for merged with this triumphalist imagery, this powerful potent.
Speaker 3: You know, these images fire and red banners and you
Speaker 3: know those reefinshall angles that upward, you know, looking up
Speaker 3: at the man on the podium and seeing him in
Speaker 3: all his glory standing above this. You know, these these
Speaker 3: perfectly formed lines of soldiers. I mean, this is this
Speaker 3: was powerful, powerful stuff, and stuff that people hadn't engaged
Speaker 3: yet at that point. You know, this was the This
Speaker 3: was the first time people were seeing a lot of this,
Speaker 3: and lo and behold what was the result. You know,
Speaker 3: He's He's chancellor in no time.
Speaker 9: You know, to me, it's crazy that was sitting here
Speaker 9: even debating. We're not debating, but even discussing the concept
Speaker 9: that movies and shape public opinion. It's nuts to me
Speaker 9: to think that people actually don't think this is the case.
Speaker 9: And I'm sure there's some people listening going who doesn't
Speaker 9: understand this by now, But believe me, I've been seeing
Speaker 9: that comment applied over and over and over again, not
Speaker 9: just from nipple dippers, not just from children, not just
Speaker 9: from teenagers, not just from totally uneducated people who've clearly
Speaker 9: never even stopped to think about the nature of the
Speaker 9: world that we live in, but people who are surprisingly
Speaker 9: well versed in genre culture. It's crazy to me that
Speaker 9: we're even stopping to take time out to illustrate what
Speaker 9: is so plainly self evident to anybody that has even
Speaker 9: stopped and analyzed, not even analyzed, but even just observed
Speaker 9: the world that we live in for four seconds.
Speaker 3: But this is where we touch on something very fascinating,
Speaker 3: because what this reveals is that the contortions that these
Speaker 3: people are willing to twist themselves into to avoid uncomfortable
Speaker 3: confrontation with their psyche and to avoid uncomfortable ideas about
Speaker 3: the media they're consuming that may change it for them
Speaker 3: from just you know, kicks and fun to maybe something
Speaker 3: a little more profound and something that may lead them
Speaker 3: in different ways in life. I mean, this is the
Speaker 3: lengths they're willing to go to. To not think about
Speaker 3: that is to is to try and hold the position
Speaker 3: that nope, it's just movies. And I think at the
Speaker 3: heart of that all is a desire to avoid shame, right.
Speaker 3: It's it's people wanting to not feel people who have
Speaker 3: been made to feel ashamed embarrassed of things that they
Speaker 3: liked and media that they enjoyed. And maybe they liked
Speaker 3: weirdo movies or maybe they just were into different things
Speaker 3: than other people were, and they were made to feel
Speaker 3: embarrassed and and shamed about it, and they were kind
Speaker 3: of ostracized about it. And so now the lengths I'm
Speaker 3: willing to go to that. First of all, they almost
Speaker 3: wear that as a badge of honor, like, hey, I
Speaker 3: was shamed to enjoy this stuff, so I you know,
Speaker 3: I've toughened up. But at heart, a lot of them
Speaker 3: are really just wanting to escape that shame. And they
Speaker 3: see this criticism, they see this like, well, well, let's
Speaker 3: look at this from this different perspective as opening the
Speaker 3: door to that shame and letting themselves be shamed by it.
Speaker 3: And I think if we focus there, I think that's
Speaker 3: where we're going to find the heart of a lot
Speaker 3: of this.
Speaker 9: The cognitive dissonance that I've experiencing right now doing this
Speaker 9: is I feel like everything was saying it's so painfully obvious,
Speaker 9: and yet why does it elude the mass media? That's
Speaker 9: the crazy thing. It's like coming to terms with the
Speaker 9: fact that America is not a democracy. When you can
Speaker 9: only choose between two corporate funded candidates, that is obviously
Speaker 9: not a democracy, But we live in this system where
Speaker 9: like millions and millions and millions of people believe it
Speaker 9: is because that's how it's presented on television. So we're
Speaker 9: putting forward some really painfully obvious, very simple concepts, but
Speaker 9: they're so forbidden from popular consciousness because the mass media
Speaker 9: don't embrace them. That's the frustrating thing about doing this
Speaker 9: sort of stuff, And I think part of me doesn't
Speaker 9: want to continue talking about it because it's so obvious,
Speaker 9: and yet if we don't do it, who the fuck is?
Speaker 3: Well, that's exactly it, because a lot of the fundamental
Speaker 3: stuff that should be there the firmament that we should
Speaker 3: be able to build all this on so that we
Speaker 3: all share this understanding. It just isn't there because there's
Speaker 3: there's been this mass erosion in media literacy, right and
Speaker 3: mass quite frankly in media competency. But those are two
Speaker 3: sides of the same coins. So the audience has been diminished,
Speaker 3: the content creators have been diminished, so the entire gambit
Speaker 3: is diminished, the entire institution is diminished. So in order
Speaker 3: to sensibly criticize it, you have to cover a lot
Speaker 3: of really basic fundamental grounds that's, you're right, almost embarrassing
Speaker 3: to talk about and embarrassing to be, like, I can't
Speaker 3: believe we have to sort of go over these like
Speaker 3: simple concepts, and you feel almost condescending when you're really
Speaker 3: not trying to be condescending. You're just trying to make
Speaker 3: sure that, hey, we're all on the same page and
Speaker 3: we're all talking about the same thing here, because there's
Speaker 3: just there's just some real gaps in both literacy and
Speaker 3: competency and media right now, and I just we're just
Speaker 3: hoping to fill those in a little bit, and that's
Speaker 3: going to take time, and.
Speaker 9: We hope people will be patient with that, what do
Speaker 9: you think you are a free thinking We're.
Speaker 3: Freethinkers, man, We're wild freethinkers, you know who We're going
Speaker 3: to actually have to think this ship out and like
Speaker 3: wrestle with ideas and like do some research and you know,
Speaker 3: try and relate to foreigners and all this sort of nonsense. Right, So,
Speaker 3: I mean this, this stuff takes time, and to do
Speaker 3: it right takes time. And I think that's that's one
Speaker 3: of the other things that I hope people can take
Speaker 3: away from this, and that I hope we can sort
Speaker 3: of prove a concept of and that is, you can
Speaker 3: do this and do this right, and do this thoroughly,
Speaker 3: and make something that is entertaining, and make something that
Speaker 3: is you know, educates, and make something that that sheds
Speaker 3: light on real issues and addresses real stuff. But through
Speaker 3: the lens of you know, a freaking Cannibal movie.
Speaker 7: I canible.
Speaker 8: Cannibal, your longest rible I mean cannible, I mean in
Speaker 8: Cannibal it's incredible. String up the le and I Cannibal.
Speaker 12: Shack.
Speaker 9: Can't you do yours?
Speaker 11: Too?
Speaker 12: Hot?
Speaker 8: I'm gonna gonna stop fancy a bite by appetite young
Speaker 8: young gees, but I'm banging and at this prestaurant, and
Speaker 8: I am cannible be able to I'm in cannibal.
Speaker 7: I be in cannible.
Speaker 8: It's incredible your brandy and I am incredible.
Speaker 7: I'm spats the nights. But it's a diet, such a dish.
Speaker 7: I care PRIs this healthy recipe. What you got is
Speaker 7: the com me I think I'd put me out. You're like,
Speaker 7: it's gonna be.
Speaker 10: Kind.
Speaker 8: I gonna outs, I'm taking out the first books, canible,
Speaker 8: the long terrible, same things.
Speaker 7: I am terrible, tiny.
Speaker 8: Padable, It's incredible, scary and names I cannot chosen each other.
Speaker 7: Was a boast the.
Speaker 16: Game, Big game shout, incredibly delicious to call job and
Speaker 16: you're final trying to take home Johnny and I sing
Speaker 16: on the game party and incredibly delicious to go and
Speaker 16: fly into you a fly home and gay you sing
Speaker 16: on the few tilS, can't stop I thing on a
Speaker 16: jump
Speaker 8: Jumping and tracking you the when I boasted gain and
Speaker 8: incredibly delicious to