WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:51.759 Do the people do the people don't do the doople do? 2 00:00:54.039 --> 00:00:57.759 Do? Do? 3 00:01:14.680 --> 00:01:17.200 All right, Welcome to Jay's Analysis, Guys, thank you for 4 00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:20.319 joining me today. We have an esteemed guest, somebody that 5 00:01:20.359 --> 00:01:23.879 I consider a true patriot and a hero. We have 6 00:01:24.000 --> 00:01:26.959 with us, John Kiriaku. You've probably seen him all over 7 00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:30.560 the podcast, blowing up everywhere in the last few months. 8 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:35.640 He is a former Central Intelligence Agency officer, whistleblower, journalist, author, 9 00:01:35.719 --> 00:01:39.159 and now podcaster, and he joins me today to talk 10 00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:43.319 about how the world really works, the myths and realities 11 00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:45.680 of espionage. We're going to talk about history, We're going 12 00:01:45.719 --> 00:01:48.200 to talk about current topics. John, how are you? 13 00:01:48.840 --> 00:01:49.159 I'm one? 14 00:01:49.280 --> 00:01:53.200 Thanks, Jay, how are you good? We had a good 15 00:01:53.239 --> 00:01:55.799 time talking before and so I thought, Man, this guy 16 00:01:55.799 --> 00:01:58.200 really knows his stuff. I've listened to I don't know 17 00:01:58.239 --> 00:02:01.519 how many hours of you in the last in the 18 00:02:01.599 --> 00:02:04.799 last several months, and it's so weird because when you 19 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:07.439 listen to somebody over and over and over on the internet, 20 00:02:07.519 --> 00:02:10.000 you start to feel like, oh, yeah, I know that guy, 21 00:02:10.080 --> 00:02:13.520 but you don't actually know that guy. So there is 22 00:02:13.560 --> 00:02:15.639 a sort of familiarity, and of course we do have 23 00:02:15.680 --> 00:02:19.479 a lot of things in common let's start it off 24 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:23.039 with some notes that I jotted down after listening to 25 00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:25.400 a lot of the recent interviews that you've done. Of course, guys, 26 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:28.240 he did just appear on Tucker and I think that 27 00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:31.400 went up yesterday or the night. Yeah, and so be 28 00:02:31.439 --> 00:02:33.560 sure and check that out. John's channel is of course 29 00:02:33.719 --> 00:02:38.280 linked and he does his channel Deep Focus. And let's 30 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:41.800 start with something that's a little spicy. From the outset. 31 00:02:42.439 --> 00:02:46.360 I hear a lot of former CIA people, pro CIA people, 32 00:02:46.400 --> 00:02:50.000 present CIA people. They do a sort of apologetic which 33 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:53.520 I understand, but they argue that the West and the 34 00:02:53.560 --> 00:02:57.759 CIA never really engaged in sexual espionage or that kind 35 00:02:57.759 --> 00:03:01.280 of operation because of the legalities that it would interfere 36 00:03:01.319 --> 00:03:04.439 with and the rights that people have. Well, we hear 37 00:03:04.479 --> 00:03:07.360 all kinds of stories as well about Operation Midnight Climax, 38 00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:10.680 where this is kind of farmed out to the organized 39 00:03:10.719 --> 00:03:12.919 crime and this kind of stuff. And we hear about 40 00:03:12.919 --> 00:03:16.199 Epstein and the possible connections with various intelligence agencies throughout 41 00:03:16.240 --> 00:03:19.520 the world. So is it a situation where it's not 42 00:03:20.080 --> 00:03:23.120 on the books, but it's done kind of on the side. 43 00:03:23.280 --> 00:03:24.319 Can you speak to that. 44 00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:30.680 Oh, I can speak to it. The CIA since its 45 00:03:30.800 --> 00:03:38.599 inception has been involved in sexual operations, sexual espionage. Certainly, 46 00:03:38.919 --> 00:03:44.719 sex was a well documented component of MK Ultra, which 47 00:03:44.800 --> 00:03:48.919 lasted from about nineteen fifty two to nineteen seventy five. 48 00:03:49.159 --> 00:03:51.039 People are going to jump on my head for saying 49 00:03:51.080 --> 00:03:53.919 it ended in nineteen seventy five. It ended in nineteen 50 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:58.039 seventy five. Certainly, there are other operations that could be 51 00:03:58.120 --> 00:04:01.919 considered successors to MKL but mkltre ended in seventy five. 52 00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:05.080 You talked about Operation Midnight Climax. That's one of the 53 00:04:05.080 --> 00:04:09.000 more famous ones, and it's it's one of those operations 54 00:04:09.000 --> 00:04:12.080 that we talk about today in twenty twenty six, and 55 00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:16.399 you just have to shake your head and ask, semi rhetorically, 56 00:04:16.439 --> 00:04:20.160 what in the world were they thinking? But yeah, I 57 00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:24.519 mean sex. Sex was used routinely well into the late 58 00:04:24.759 --> 00:04:27.879 seventies the early eighties. One of the very first questions Jay, 59 00:04:27.920 --> 00:04:30.519 that I asked when I joined not the CI, but 60 00:04:30.560 --> 00:04:32.879 when I joined Operations, which was about halfway through my 61 00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:36.879 CIA career, was about the use of honeypots. Right, Because 62 00:04:37.560 --> 00:04:42.959 when you're learning counter intelligence, you learn how the Russians 63 00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:46.720 use honeypots, the Israelis use honeypots. Well, what about us? 64 00:04:47.399 --> 00:04:51.079 And one of my instructors who became my mentor, quite 65 00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:53.959 a famous officer, gust Avracatis. He was played by Philip 66 00:04:54.040 --> 00:04:58.639 Seymour Hoffman in the film Charlie Wilson's War. Gust told 67 00:04:58.680 --> 00:05:03.800 me we used sex all the time until Ronald Reagan 68 00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:08.079 became president. And we didn't stop because Ronald Reagan became president, 69 00:05:08.120 --> 00:05:11.839 but roughly that period only because it just didn't work 70 00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:14.920 after a while. If you really want somebody to be 71 00:05:15.079 --> 00:05:18.759 a source for you and to commit espionage for you 72 00:05:18.879 --> 00:05:23.360 over the course of you know, years that had, that 73 00:05:23.439 --> 00:05:26.879 relationship has to be built on a foundation of trust, 74 00:05:27.199 --> 00:05:31.000 not one of coercion. And so you know, if you 75 00:05:31.040 --> 00:05:34.600 go up to somebody and say, listen, we set you 76 00:05:34.680 --> 00:05:37.079 up with a prostitute the other night and you didn't know, 77 00:05:37.199 --> 00:05:40.680 but we had the room wired for video and audio, 78 00:05:40.759 --> 00:05:43.079 and we have these pictures of you and videos, and 79 00:05:43.120 --> 00:05:44.759 we're going to release them to your wife, or we're 80 00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.000 going to release them to your government unless you work 81 00:05:47.040 --> 00:05:49.920 for us. That's not how you build trust. That's not 82 00:05:50.040 --> 00:05:53.120 how you build a long term relationship. And then he 83 00:05:53.279 --> 00:05:56.079 told me a story. It very well could be apocryphal, 84 00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:59.480 but I've always believed it. And that was before the 85 00:05:59.519 --> 00:06:04.839 Iranian Revolution, there was an Ayatola that we wanted to recruit, 86 00:06:04.879 --> 00:06:09.000 and so we sent a prostitute to kind of bump 87 00:06:09.040 --> 00:06:14.759 him and lure him into into a hotel, and he 88 00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:17.639 had sex with her, and we took pictures and video 89 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:19.839 and then laid it out in front of him and 90 00:06:19.839 --> 00:06:23.839 said we've gotcha. And he laughed and he said, I'll 91 00:06:23.839 --> 00:06:26.040 take that in an eight x ten and give me 92 00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:28.360 two five x sevens of this one. And he's like, 93 00:06:28.639 --> 00:06:32.079 what's wrong with you guys? Seriously, like in the movies, 94 00:06:32.120 --> 00:06:34.279 you're going to try to threaten me get out of here. 95 00:06:35.160 --> 00:06:38.600 And it was around that operation that a decision was 96 00:06:38.600 --> 00:06:41.480 made that this just isn't working. If the Israelis and 97 00:06:41.480 --> 00:06:43.639 the Russians think it works for them, that's fine for them, 98 00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:45.199 but we just stopped doing it. 99 00:06:46.959 --> 00:06:50.079 Well, that's interesting because you know when we look into 100 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:53.759 Epstein and the files and the emails and all these 101 00:06:53.839 --> 00:06:56.639 dumps that recently came out, you know, there was quite 102 00:06:56.680 --> 00:06:58.959 a bit. I don't know if you had ever had 103 00:06:58.959 --> 00:07:01.000 the any time to realize Whitney Webb's book. 104 00:07:01.040 --> 00:07:03.199 I thought it was terrific. 105 00:07:03.680 --> 00:07:06.839 Yeah, Whitney's book was great, and I think she demonstrates 106 00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:09.279 you know that this is sort of a copy paste 107 00:07:09.279 --> 00:07:12.399 operation going back to Robert Maxwell, and then you know 108 00:07:12.439 --> 00:07:16.800 who looks that way, whoever perhaps recruited Robert Maxwell be 109 00:07:16.839 --> 00:07:19.680 the roth tells, or whoever into doing it and taught 110 00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:24.759 him the ropes. It seems like that situation was relying 111 00:07:24.879 --> 00:07:29.439 very heavily on on compromise. Many of the details and 112 00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:32.240 the emails that are still somewhat ambiguous and hard to 113 00:07:32.240 --> 00:07:35.399 figure out, they seem to point in that direction. I 114 00:07:35.439 --> 00:07:39.000 remember somebody saying, maybe it was Andrew Bustamante on a 115 00:07:39.079 --> 00:07:41.720 video or something, that what he was saying something like, well, 116 00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:44.360 once you do this, you kind of you can never 117 00:07:44.600 --> 00:07:47.439 do anything with them again because they're forever gonna hate you. 118 00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:49.560 So you're not, like you said, building trust. It kind 119 00:07:49.560 --> 00:07:52.199 of kind of maybe is a last resort? Is that 120 00:07:52.240 --> 00:07:55.439 why they would rely on something like that for you know, 121 00:07:55.519 --> 00:07:58.879 so many politicians and members of Congress? Is it Is 122 00:07:58.879 --> 00:08:01.079 it a last resort or at a first resort for 123 00:08:01.199 --> 00:08:02.879 some some countries? 124 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:07.720 You know, I can give you an educated guess, and 125 00:08:07.759 --> 00:08:10.240 I'm going to say that it's probably a first resort 126 00:08:10.319 --> 00:08:14.639 for a lot of a lot of countries. It's unusual 127 00:08:14.680 --> 00:08:17.600 for me to agree with something that Andrew Busta Monte 128 00:08:17.639 --> 00:08:19.879 has to say, but I think he's right about that. 129 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:22.800 And then coming back to something that you said just 130 00:08:22.839 --> 00:08:28.600 a moment ago, we have to also consider the use 131 00:08:28.639 --> 00:08:33.799 of cutouts so that so that the chance of blowback 132 00:08:34.759 --> 00:08:39.440 is lessened. And what I mean by that is, why 133 00:08:39.480 --> 00:08:44.679 would you set someone up in a compromising sexual position 134 00:08:45.399 --> 00:08:49.879 and risk it going bad and then having that blowback 135 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:54.159 on you when you can have a cutout do it. 136 00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:58.240 You can have Jeffrey Epstein do it. You can have 137 00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:02.440 a foreign intelligence service do it for you, or an 138 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:06.600 organized criminal gang or something that doesn't point back to 139 00:09:06.679 --> 00:09:09.000 the CIA, you know, look at it this way too. 140 00:09:09.639 --> 00:09:12.720 We learned so much from this latest tranch of the 141 00:09:12.799 --> 00:09:16.120 Epstein documents, so much, and there are still three to 142 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.320 three and a half million pages that the President is 143 00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:23.200 now saying will not be released, apparently because they would 144 00:09:23.200 --> 00:09:27.440 embarrass friends of his. But we now know that Jeffrey 145 00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:33.879 Epstein apparently was an access agent for the Israelis, but 146 00:09:34.039 --> 00:09:37.720 that he had also volunteered to work for the CIA, 147 00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:40.600 to work for the FBI, to work for the British 148 00:09:40.679 --> 00:09:44.320 mi I five and the British I six and the Germans, 149 00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:48.080 and that he had tried repeatedly to get a private 150 00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:51.080 one on one meeting with Vladimir Putin. He couldn't quite 151 00:09:51.120 --> 00:09:54.399 get the meeting, but the Russians offered a meeting with 152 00:09:54.519 --> 00:09:59.080 Putin and two security officials, which Epstein had turned down. 153 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:02.200 So I think that the answer to your question is 154 00:10:02.279 --> 00:10:06.799 most likely yes, that this is going on, that it 155 00:10:07.120 --> 00:10:12.720 always has gone on. And if it wasn't a direct 156 00:10:13.080 --> 00:10:18.320 CIA operation to use sex to gather information, it was 157 00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:21.200 a CIA operation to use a cutout to use sex 158 00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:23.799 to get information. Yeah. 159 00:10:23.840 --> 00:10:26.000 I think oftentimes people think of this as something that's 160 00:10:26.080 --> 00:10:29.120 only a government agency, as if it couldn't be Yeah, 161 00:10:29.279 --> 00:10:32.559 as if it couldn't be farmed out to organize crime, 162 00:10:33.120 --> 00:10:35.399 you know exactly. You know, you watch The Godfather and 163 00:10:35.440 --> 00:10:39.080 The Second Godfather. You know, they get the politician at 164 00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:43.480 one of the Corleones whorehouses, so right, so they got there, 165 00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:45.039 you know, they got the black know that they needed 166 00:10:45.039 --> 00:10:47.639 in that situation. So yeah, I think that that's a 167 00:10:47.679 --> 00:10:50.200 great point, is uh, you know, the use of cutouts. 168 00:10:50.279 --> 00:10:51.960 And I don't mean to go too much into Hollywood 169 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:55.639 and movies. My wife and I were watching Peaky grinders. 170 00:10:56.120 --> 00:10:58.279 That's a joke, but make fun of a guy that 171 00:10:58.679 --> 00:11:04.720 peaky blinders. That that was there was a situation where, 172 00:11:04.759 --> 00:11:08.240 you know, the British government, with my secret Sis at 173 00:11:08.279 --> 00:11:10.960 that time, I guess, was working with uh, you know, 174 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:15.639 Killian Murphy's or Irish criminal gang, and together they're having 175 00:11:15.679 --> 00:11:18.440 to combat the IRA and the communists, and they're using 176 00:11:19.000 --> 00:11:22.360 the organized crime in some cases to do a hit. 177 00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:25.240 And I remember reading in some of the books on 178 00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:28.320 the operation Underworld and some of the stories of you know, 179 00:11:28.360 --> 00:11:32.559 the Genovizi crime syndicate after World War One, that the 180 00:11:32.559 --> 00:11:35.960 the US intelligence apparatus at that time was even kind 181 00:11:35.960 --> 00:11:41.720 of making links with with organized crime. How significant and 182 00:11:42.519 --> 00:11:47.360 real do you believe those links were to the underground 183 00:11:47.399 --> 00:11:52.000 world of organized crime from the American intelligence apparatus over 184 00:11:52.039 --> 00:11:54.399 the decades of the twentieth century? Is it over? Is 185 00:11:54.399 --> 00:11:57.480 it exaggerated? Is that something that is very important? 186 00:11:58.279 --> 00:12:01.919 Strong? And with the advent of the Freedom of Information 187 00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:06.720 Act and mandatory declassification laws, we now have more details 188 00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:12.039 about some of these relationships. As you correctly pointed out, 189 00:12:10.879 --> 00:12:16.679 the FBI worked very closely with the Genovies family to 190 00:12:16.759 --> 00:12:19.200 secure the Port of Brooklyn and the Port of Newark 191 00:12:19.279 --> 00:12:22.840 during the Second World War. We know how many different 192 00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:28.960 times the CIA worked with the Santo Trafficante family in 193 00:12:29.000 --> 00:12:33.919 Tampa to try to assassinate Fidel Castro. And there are 194 00:12:34.639 --> 00:12:40.240 other examples too. I have to be careful here. 195 00:12:40.320 --> 00:12:40.600 Well. 196 00:12:40.679 --> 00:12:44.159 You know an obvious one from the nineteen eighties is 197 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:50.120 when the CIA was working with the Pablo Escobar cartel 198 00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:56.639 to target communist separatists in Colombia in the jungle. Dea 199 00:12:56.879 --> 00:13:00.279 was doing one thing, CIA is doing exactly the opposite thing, 200 00:13:00.480 --> 00:13:04.440 and nobody saw any irony in that. There's a famous 201 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:08.360 case with a mob hitman I think he was a 202 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:13.960 Colombo named Greg Scarfo, where Scarfo was recruited by the 203 00:13:14.039 --> 00:13:18.840 FBI to go to Mississippi to find these freedom writers, 204 00:13:18.879 --> 00:13:22.799 these three freedom writers Chapman, Cheney, I forget the third 205 00:13:22.879 --> 00:13:26.000 one's name, who had been murdered by the Ku Klux Klan, 206 00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:31.840 and Scarfo actually kidnapped a klansman and shot him in 207 00:13:31.879 --> 00:13:34.960 the knees to force him to tell him where the 208 00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:38.279 bodies were, and then like magic, the FBI discovers the 209 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:42.440 bodies in an earthen dam outside of town. So yeah, 210 00:13:42.799 --> 00:13:46.120 you go through the entire history really of the FBI 211 00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:48.679 and the history of the CIA, and there are lots 212 00:13:48.679 --> 00:13:52.639 of examples where they worked very closely with organized crime. 213 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:55.960 Yeah, and that actually is a great transition to the 214 00:13:56.000 --> 00:13:58.440 next topic I wanted to ask you about, and that's 215 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:02.559 Operation Gladio, because Gladio is another example of a very 216 00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:07.440 close connection between Western intelligence agencies and organized crime, particularly 217 00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:10.600 Sicilian mafia. And what we know is is the P 218 00:14:10.759 --> 00:14:13.919 two Lodge or the Propagonda du A Lodge in Italy, 219 00:14:14.519 --> 00:14:16.879 and this was a post World War two sort of 220 00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:23.200 oddly enough fascist tending a series of lodges that were 221 00:14:23.240 --> 00:14:27.039 able to be sources for recruitment, according to the public 222 00:14:27.120 --> 00:14:29.840 journalistic material that we have on the part of the 223 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:32.720 CIA and other outfits to sort of again recruit from 224 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:36.559 also organized crime. We have the character Michelle Sendona, and 225 00:14:36.600 --> 00:14:39.759 we have the character lchio Gelli, and that ties into 226 00:14:39.759 --> 00:14:43.039 secret societies as well as Masonic networks things like that. 227 00:14:44.799 --> 00:14:50.159 Is Gladio a huge component of that post World War 228 00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:54.000 two alliance with the Vatican and Vatican bank structure or 229 00:14:54.080 --> 00:14:55.720 is this exaggerated? 230 00:14:58.159 --> 00:15:05.759 You know, I always believed that that what we've learned publicly. 231 00:15:06.440 --> 00:15:08.720 Let me let me preface this by saying everything I 232 00:15:08.759 --> 00:15:11.679 learned about Operation Gladio I learned after I left the CIA. 233 00:15:12.320 --> 00:15:14.960 It was in nineteen ninety that the Italian Prime Minister, 234 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:18.240 and I think it was Andreotti at the time, went 235 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:24.120 public when speaking to Parliament about Operation Gladio. For your 236 00:15:24.200 --> 00:15:27.600 viewers who don't know what Gladio is, it was an 237 00:15:27.639 --> 00:15:33.159 operation hatched by the CIA, MI Six, the Vatican and 238 00:15:33.399 --> 00:15:45.600 NATO to leave essentially sleeper agents behind right at the 239 00:15:45.639 --> 00:15:49.919 end of World War Two and in the couple of 240 00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:52.879 years after, just in case of a Soviet invasion, so 241 00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:56.879 that there would be an intelligence structure in place that 242 00:15:57.120 --> 00:16:01.559 could help the Western services confront the Soviets. You know, 243 00:16:01.639 --> 00:16:05.200 in retrospect, looking at it in twenty twenty six, it 244 00:16:05.240 --> 00:16:08.360 seems kind of quaint, you know, the thing of an 245 00:16:08.360 --> 00:16:11.360 interesting movie that might, you know, get nominated for an 246 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:15.639 Academy Award or two. But back then it was deadly serious, 247 00:16:16.120 --> 00:16:18.919 deadly serious. We really believed the Soviets were going to 248 00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:22.200 invade Western Europe. We really believed it, and so people 249 00:16:22.200 --> 00:16:26.039 were scrambling to create an intelligence infrastructure. Keep in mind 250 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.879 too that the CIA and NATO weren't created until nineteen 251 00:16:29.919 --> 00:16:32.440 forty seven, so there was this period of about a 252 00:16:32.519 --> 00:16:35.360 year and a half from forty five to early forty seven, 253 00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:39.759 where we were just weighing it. M I six was 254 00:16:39.799 --> 00:16:42.639 sort of the pre eminent intelligence service in the Western world, 255 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:44.879 with the KGB being the pre eminent service in the 256 00:16:44.919 --> 00:16:51.879 Eastern world, and President Truman. President Truman's advisors were saying, listen, 257 00:16:51.879 --> 00:16:54.200 we need to be prepared for a Soviet invasion of 258 00:16:54.240 --> 00:17:02.399 Western Europe. And so Truman asked the British to send 259 00:17:03.399 --> 00:17:08.039 six officers to New York to sit with Americans and 260 00:17:08.119 --> 00:17:12.839 to help us create what he called a Central Intelligence Agency, 261 00:17:14.039 --> 00:17:18.680 a place where all foreign intelligence could be collected and analyzed, 262 00:17:19.960 --> 00:17:21.920 you know, just as a kind of a funny aside. 263 00:17:22.160 --> 00:17:24.079 All of this ended up happening as part of what's 264 00:17:24.119 --> 00:17:26.920 called the National Security Act of nineteen forty seven, but 265 00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:31.720 as an interesting aside. Jade Grew Hoover, the long long 266 00:17:31.799 --> 00:17:33.920 time director of the FBI. He was the head of 267 00:17:33.960 --> 00:17:38.400 the FBI for forty what forty eight years. He was 268 00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:44.599 strongly opposed to the creation of a CIA and an NSC. 269 00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.160 The National Security Council was also created in that same 270 00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:50.680 National Security Active nineteen forty seven. So he was going 271 00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:54.519 around Capitol Hill asking members of Commerce to vote against it. 272 00:17:54.880 --> 00:17:57.960 And this is exactly the opposite of what President Truman wanted. 273 00:17:58.400 --> 00:18:03.640 Truman got winn that that Hoover was working against passage 274 00:18:03.680 --> 00:18:06.680 of the bill, and so he called Hoover in and 275 00:18:06.720 --> 00:18:12.200 told Hoover, you've got this all wrong. This Central Intelligence Agency, 276 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:16.200 it's going to be a component of the FBI. So 277 00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:19.759 you'll be head of the FBI and of the CIA. 278 00:18:20.599 --> 00:18:23.440 And he said, oh, and he lifted his objection. It 279 00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:25.960 was a lie. Of course, there was never any intention 280 00:18:26.400 --> 00:18:28.759 for the CIA to be a division of the FBI, 281 00:18:30.160 --> 00:18:34.240 and Hoover never forgave Truman for lying to him. But 282 00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:39.720 we were scrambling in nineteen forty six and early nineteen 283 00:18:39.759 --> 00:18:42.680 forty seven. Finally these six officers came to New York. 284 00:18:43.519 --> 00:18:47.799 They were met by Bill Donovan and Prescott Bush and 285 00:18:47.839 --> 00:18:50.839 a handful of other Swells from Wall Street and the 286 00:18:51.039 --> 00:18:55.599 Oss days, and with some you know, pads of paper, 287 00:18:55.720 --> 00:18:58.799 they came up with a centralized intelligence service that we 288 00:18:58.880 --> 00:18:59.759 called the CIA. 289 00:19:01.240 --> 00:19:03.640 Yeah, it's a fascinating history. I remember, uh, you know 290 00:19:03.680 --> 00:19:08.440 several texts that discuss the extreme influence I guess you 291 00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:11.200 could say from British intelligence on how to structure it, 292 00:19:11.240 --> 00:19:14.680 how to set it up. Several early figures were very 293 00:19:15.880 --> 00:19:19.160 very well trained by the British, like Frank Wisner. It's 294 00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:23.319 a massive student, yeah, massive student of British counter intelligence. 295 00:19:23.359 --> 00:19:26.880 But in terms of like going back to Gladio real quick, 296 00:19:27.680 --> 00:19:30.519 you know a lot of writers conceive of this as 297 00:19:30.599 --> 00:19:34.319 a template something that is not just about you know, 298 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:37.839 setting up networks within Europe that would stave off a 299 00:19:37.960 --> 00:19:43.319 Soviet NKVD style takeover, but also perhaps uh trained ter 300 00:19:43.759 --> 00:19:46.839 terror cells it could be activated later on. Now we 301 00:19:46.880 --> 00:19:50.480 know that perhaps Gladio probably ended, but maybe other types 302 00:19:50.519 --> 00:19:53.880 of operations or templates that some authors I think Doug 303 00:19:53.960 --> 00:19:57.240 Valentine and others connect, Yeah, they connect these types of 304 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:02.359 operations to the template of Iran contra training, you know, 305 00:20:02.400 --> 00:20:05.559 the right wing desk squads there. And also isis al 306 00:20:05.640 --> 00:20:09.319 Kata kinda type training that you would get, you know, 307 00:20:09.440 --> 00:20:12.759 under Brazenski and Carter and Gates in the late seventies 308 00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:15.799 early eighties for the for the Soviet situation. Do you 309 00:20:15.799 --> 00:20:18.559 think that's accurate? Is that exaggerated? Is it a template 310 00:20:18.599 --> 00:20:22.480 that's used? One last point, I remember reading Miles Copeland's 311 00:20:22.480 --> 00:20:26.279 book Game of Nations, and he was discussing that in 312 00:20:26.319 --> 00:20:28.480 his time in Egypt and in Syria when he was 313 00:20:28.559 --> 00:20:32.480 a consultant to the government's there. Obviously, he says, I 314 00:20:32.519 --> 00:20:35.160 was working for the CIA. He says, we would use 315 00:20:35.279 --> 00:20:38.279 terrorists all the time. He says they're great patsies and dupes. 316 00:20:38.279 --> 00:20:41.279 I'm not saying that the CIA runs every terror operation, 317 00:20:41.359 --> 00:20:44.160 but he says it's a very useful tool in the toolkit. 318 00:20:45.319 --> 00:20:48.400 Is that accurate? Is this exaggerated as well? Is it 319 00:20:48.440 --> 00:20:53.240 a template that's kind of a way to structure around 320 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:55.559 contra isis gladiator? 321 00:20:55.599 --> 00:20:59.119 Oh? Yeah, No, it's not exaggerated. And I would actually 322 00:20:59.160 --> 00:21:04.400 take issue with his statement that that they're they're dupes. 323 00:21:04.680 --> 00:21:09.680 They're not dupes. They're partners. Uh, they're they're compensated handsomely 324 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:13.079 and you know, you you bank of you bank a 325 00:21:13.119 --> 00:21:13.920 favor that way. 326 00:21:15.039 --> 00:21:17.000 I think you're saying the person who goes in and 327 00:21:17.000 --> 00:21:20.880 actually blows himself up as the dupe. But but maybe 328 00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:22.519 the handlers are not dupes. 329 00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:25.880 No, no, I I'm with you on that. Yes, I misunderstood, 330 00:21:26.200 --> 00:21:29.440 uh yeah, that that would be the dupe. I mean, 331 00:21:29.480 --> 00:21:32.279 even somebody like me that that was not really my 332 00:21:32.359 --> 00:21:35.359 world at the CIA. I was strictly a counter terrorism officer, 333 00:21:35.640 --> 00:21:40.880 but even I had contact with organized crime overseas, and 334 00:21:41.880 --> 00:21:44.200 you know, we we didn't give each other the warm 335 00:21:44.240 --> 00:21:47.640 and fuzzies, and we didn't invite each other to dinnerate 336 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:51.440 each other's homes or introduce each other to to our 337 00:21:51.480 --> 00:21:56.319 respective wives. But but we shook hands and money exchanged 338 00:21:56.319 --> 00:21:59.039 hands and and you know, I got what I wanted 339 00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:01.559 and he got what he wants it and then we 340 00:22:01.599 --> 00:22:04.559 never saw each other again. So that's that's actually quite 341 00:22:04.599 --> 00:22:08.799 a common event. There's risk, of course, because you're you're 342 00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:11.000 dealing with people who you know, in some cases are 343 00:22:11.200 --> 00:22:16.119 are stone cold killers, and you need to trust them 344 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.839 to a point where they do what you're paying them 345 00:22:18.880 --> 00:22:23.200 to do. The initial encounter is what's the most dangerous. 346 00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:26.480 I think I have told the story. I was dealing 347 00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.920 with a with an organized crime figure overseas in the 348 00:22:29.920 --> 00:22:36.480 Middle East, and there was a French intelligence officer dealing 349 00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:39.559 with him as well. And the French intelligence officer one 350 00:22:39.640 --> 00:22:42.200 day was just found dead in a ditch on the 351 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:45.359 side of the road, and so we had to we 352 00:22:45.400 --> 00:22:47.519 had to all meet like should I should I go 353 00:22:47.559 --> 00:22:49.839 to the next meeting? Are they going to kill me? 354 00:22:49.880 --> 00:22:51.680 At the next meeting. I don't know, I said, I 355 00:22:51.680 --> 00:22:53.720 don't think he's going to kill me. I think he 356 00:22:53.799 --> 00:22:56.279 trusts me. So I go to the next meeting. It 357 00:22:56.359 --> 00:22:59.240 was very tense. It turned out to be our last meeting, 358 00:22:59.240 --> 00:23:01.720 and as I was one wocking out, he says to me, oh, 359 00:23:01.759 --> 00:23:04.400 by the way, and I turned and I looked at him, 360 00:23:04.519 --> 00:23:08.680 and he said, your French friend, very bad trade craft. 361 00:23:10.240 --> 00:23:13.240 And I wasn't really sure what to make of that, 362 00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:15.319 other than the fact that he was admitting to me 363 00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:18.559 that he had killed the French intelligence officer. I don't 364 00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:22.599 know why he didn't try to kill me, but yeah, 365 00:23:22.640 --> 00:23:25.359 that kind of thing happens all the time. It's a 366 00:23:25.359 --> 00:23:28.880 calculated risk that you take, and you know if the gain, 367 00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:32.319 the potential gain is greater than the potential risk, sure 368 00:23:32.359 --> 00:23:38.400 you go forward and you're very happy to meet with criminals. 369 00:23:37.160 --> 00:23:42.440 In regard to terror. Again, you being expert at the 370 00:23:42.480 --> 00:23:47.880 COO on counter terrorism dealing with that. I think we 371 00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:50.519 in the world of alternative media, we tend to think 372 00:23:50.880 --> 00:23:52.680 immediately when you see when you hear the word terry, 373 00:23:52.720 --> 00:23:58.640 immediately think false flag. You think stage, you think engineered. Certainly, 374 00:23:58.640 --> 00:24:02.960 not every event is stage or engineer or something like that. 375 00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:08.400 There are organic believers in radical ideologies, but we also 376 00:24:08.440 --> 00:24:12.400 have this reality too of false flag events. If if 377 00:24:12.400 --> 00:24:15.079 we were to think back over the last say century, 378 00:24:15.200 --> 00:24:19.640 or the last several decades, or how many instances would 379 00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:21.359 you guess or if you had to do a percentage 380 00:24:21.440 --> 00:24:24.160 or some just speculation, right, like, do you think most 381 00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:29.039 major terror events have a kind of connection to a 382 00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:32.240 state or to some other type of entity or or 383 00:24:32.319 --> 00:24:33.160 is it organic? 384 00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:38.920 Now that's a good that's a good question. That's a 385 00:24:38.960 --> 00:24:42.519 tough question. You know what I'm going to have to say. Oh, 386 00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:43.960 I'm going to take a lot of shit for this. 387 00:24:44.559 --> 00:24:48.000 I'm going to have to say that, yes, I think 388 00:24:48.079 --> 00:24:51.279 most of them probably are connected to a state in 389 00:24:51.359 --> 00:24:55.319 some way. Geez, I hate, I hate coming off as 390 00:24:55.319 --> 00:24:59.240 a conspiracy theorist, But when you when you dig down 391 00:24:59.480 --> 00:25:04.000 into some these operations, I mean, look at nine to eleven, right, 392 00:25:04.079 --> 00:25:06.079 I mean nine to eleven was carried out by al Kaida. 393 00:25:06.240 --> 00:25:09.160 We know that one hundred percent, I'm more than I'm 394 00:25:09.160 --> 00:25:13.400 one thousand percent confident nine to eleven was carried out 395 00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:15.599 by al Qaida? But who was behind al Qaida? 396 00:25:16.519 --> 00:25:16.759 Right? 397 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:21.279 Clearly it was the Saudi government, and I believe very 398 00:25:21.319 --> 00:25:24.559 strongly that the Israelis knew exactly what was going to happen, 399 00:25:24.720 --> 00:25:27.400 exactly when it was going to happen. But it was 400 00:25:27.440 --> 00:25:30.440 to Israel's benefit that the United States be attacked, so 401 00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:34.440 that the US would respond by killing two million Muslims 402 00:25:34.480 --> 00:25:37.039 over the next twenty years, which is exactly what we did. 403 00:25:37.359 --> 00:25:41.720 We created chaos in Iraq, and chaos in Syria, and 404 00:25:41.839 --> 00:25:45.319 chaos in Libya and now chaos in Iran, and that's 405 00:25:45.400 --> 00:25:50.079 to Israel's benefits. So I think in many many cases, yeah, 406 00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:52.519 there's a state behind it. And I'll add one thing. 407 00:25:52.680 --> 00:25:55.960 I've talked about this publicly many times, but on the 408 00:25:56.039 --> 00:25:58.799 night that we captured up Uzebta in March of two 409 00:25:58.839 --> 00:26:00.759 thousand and two, we caught him in in a safe 410 00:26:00.759 --> 00:26:03.200 house and vice Labad, Pakistan. One of the things that 411 00:26:03.200 --> 00:26:08.160 we confiscated that night was his diary, and so I 412 00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:11.200 was with him for the first fifty six consecutive hours 413 00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:14.640 of his captivity. I tied him to the hospital bed 414 00:26:14.680 --> 00:26:19.240 he had surgery to treat three gunshot wounds. We shot him, 415 00:26:19.279 --> 00:26:22.359 the Pakistani shot him while he was trying to escape 416 00:26:22.359 --> 00:26:26.839 that night, and so I was so sleepy. I was 417 00:26:26.880 --> 00:26:28.440 afraid I was going to fall asleep and he was 418 00:26:28.480 --> 00:26:30.319 going to escape somehow. So I tore up a sheet, 419 00:26:30.359 --> 00:26:33.400 I tied him to the bed, and I'm just sitting 420 00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:35.119 there at the foot of the bed like this, just 421 00:26:35.200 --> 00:26:37.759 kind of staring at him for most of the fifty 422 00:26:37.799 --> 00:26:40.319 six hours. But one of the things that we confiscated 423 00:26:40.359 --> 00:26:43.559 that night in the raid was his diary, and so 424 00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:47.279 I started leafing through the diary and it made my 425 00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:50.200 hair stand up. Most of it was silly, Most of 426 00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:54.640 it was doodles. He was an accomplished sketch artist, Like 427 00:26:54.759 --> 00:26:57.039 I would pay money for some of the drawings that 428 00:26:57.079 --> 00:26:57.440 he did. 429 00:26:57.559 --> 00:26:59.279 It would have been funny if the doodles were like 430 00:26:59.279 --> 00:27:01.640 like a high school teenage girls did. 431 00:27:01.759 --> 00:27:05.200 Right right with hearts over the letter I and stuff 432 00:27:05.240 --> 00:27:12.200 like that. No terrorists with a heart of gold seriously misunderstood. 433 00:27:13.079 --> 00:27:16.079 He wrote a lot of poetry, much of it which 434 00:27:16.160 --> 00:27:21.000 was quite good. He wrote letters to his younger self, 435 00:27:21.480 --> 00:27:24.240 which I found fascinating. And this led to a split 436 00:27:24.279 --> 00:27:26.359 between the CIA and the FBI, where the FBI said 437 00:27:26.359 --> 00:27:29.039 he was a madman and the CIA said, no, he's 438 00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:33.319 he's extraordinarily intelligent. The CIA turned out to be correct 439 00:27:33.359 --> 00:27:35.640 on that he would write these letters to himself, like 440 00:27:35.880 --> 00:27:38.160 it was the twenty seven year old that was a beta, 441 00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:41.680 or the thirty year old of was a beta writing 442 00:27:41.720 --> 00:27:43.599 to the fourteen year old of was a beta, saying, 443 00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:46.960 treat our mother with respect. You were rude to her today. 444 00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:50.680 Don't whistle at those girls. You're a musclim Muslim, you 445 00:27:50.720 --> 00:27:54.000 shouldn't whistle at girls. You know, stuff like that. But 446 00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:58.240 what I also saw on the in the diary were 447 00:27:58.319 --> 00:28:02.079 three cell phone numbers, and they were to three members 448 00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:07.519 of the Saudi royal family. Why in God's name would 449 00:28:08.440 --> 00:28:10.720 someone that we believed at the time was the number 450 00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:13.759 three in al Qaeda He wasn't the number three, but 451 00:28:13.799 --> 00:28:18.279 he was a bad guy. He had established and staffed 452 00:28:18.319 --> 00:28:21.240 al Qaeda's two training camps in southern Afghanistan, as well 453 00:28:21.279 --> 00:28:26.079 as al Qaeda's safe house in Peshawar, the House of Martyrs. 454 00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:28.880 Why would he have the personal cell phone numbers of 455 00:28:28.920 --> 00:28:32.119 three Saudi princes. And so we went to the Saudis 456 00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:34.960 and we said take care of this, or we're going 457 00:28:35.039 --> 00:28:36.720 to take care of it, and you're not going to 458 00:28:36.880 --> 00:28:39.799 like the way we take care of it. The next thing, 459 00:28:39.839 --> 00:28:43.480 you know, one of these princes dies on the operating 460 00:28:43.519 --> 00:28:48.759 table during bariatric surgery. They're all fat pigs. The second 461 00:28:48.799 --> 00:28:52.440 prince is killed in a one car accident on the 462 00:28:52.519 --> 00:28:57.880 Riad to Jetta Highway, and the third prince goes camping 463 00:28:58.119 --> 00:29:05.319 in the desert and dies of third. So, yeah, that 464 00:29:05.519 --> 00:29:09.359 tells me that the last thing they wanted was for 465 00:29:09.440 --> 00:29:13.559 the CIA to snatch these guys and to start interrogating them, 466 00:29:14.200 --> 00:29:16.599 which then, of course led me to believe that the 467 00:29:16.599 --> 00:29:18.559 Saudi government was involved in nine to eleven. 468 00:29:19.400 --> 00:29:22.359 Yeah, I mean so many things point that way. We 469 00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:25.079 even had that admission, what was it, five or six 470 00:29:25.160 --> 00:29:27.000 years ago, right, they came out and said, okay, yeah, 471 00:29:27.000 --> 00:29:29.759 we did classify what was the sixteen pages of Yeah. 472 00:29:29.559 --> 00:29:31.480 It turns out the twenty eight pages, yeah. 473 00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:34.039 Twenty Yeah, Saudi said to have a key role. Turns 474 00:29:34.079 --> 00:29:39.440 out which many people theorized and suspected and and that's 475 00:29:39.640 --> 00:29:43.079 our ally right, that's not a you know, terror state, 476 00:29:43.240 --> 00:29:45.599 but it's supposedly also one of the greatest. 477 00:29:45.319 --> 00:29:47.720 Funders, but it's a funder of terror. 478 00:29:47.799 --> 00:29:53.920 Right. Yeah, that again on the topic of Saudi Arabia. 479 00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:55.400 And I don't want to get too far afield, but 480 00:29:55.480 --> 00:29:57.480 just made me think of this. I remember reading recently 481 00:29:57.559 --> 00:30:01.680 that Kissinger back in the nineteen seventies had a very 482 00:30:01.880 --> 00:30:08.519 important role in restructuring how the petro dollar would would 483 00:30:08.559 --> 00:30:11.720 function in the world, and that there was an intentional 484 00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:17.599 shifting away from using US oil or native oil here 485 00:30:18.160 --> 00:30:21.920 to put us in reliance on foreign oil like Saudi's 486 00:30:21.960 --> 00:30:26.559 and others, to give us then an excuse to I thought, 487 00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.480 there's a really cunning, genius sort of conspiracy plot here, 488 00:30:30.759 --> 00:30:32.680 of a villain plan. So now that now we have 489 00:30:32.720 --> 00:30:36.960 an excuse for foreign policing because we're tied to the 490 00:30:37.000 --> 00:30:38.799 oil that we get from all these other countries. And 491 00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:41.480 we hear recently with Trump right that we've got to 492 00:30:41.480 --> 00:30:43.359 do all the phenol. We have to get the oil. 493 00:30:43.400 --> 00:30:46.440 We've got oil, We've got to take oil. 494 00:30:46.559 --> 00:30:49.359 We got to take the oil. Well, don't we have 495 00:30:49.400 --> 00:30:52.000 a lot of oil here? I thought Trump ran on that, right, 496 00:30:52.039 --> 00:30:55.559 We've got so much oil in an ocean of oil. 497 00:30:55.920 --> 00:30:58.599 But now we have to police the world over oil. 498 00:30:58.880 --> 00:31:02.000 Is it ap plausible theory that Kissinger and I've heard 499 00:31:02.079 --> 00:31:04.839 read via the Bilderberg meetings at that time that they 500 00:31:04.880 --> 00:31:08.319 sort of planned out the petro dollar as a excuse 501 00:31:08.599 --> 00:31:11.240 for future world police. 502 00:31:11.720 --> 00:31:14.720 I think that's exactly what happened. I think that's exactly 503 00:31:14.799 --> 00:31:18.279 what happened, and we're seeing, you know, still the effects today, 504 00:31:19.319 --> 00:31:24.680 fifty years after that policy was enacted. You know, I've 505 00:31:24.680 --> 00:31:30.240 got a friend, a former CIA friend who left the 506 00:31:30.279 --> 00:31:34.960 CIA and went into He's one of these genius engineers, 507 00:31:35.559 --> 00:31:39.400 and so he left the CIA and he went to 508 00:31:39.440 --> 00:31:42.279 work for one of the big oil companies, and he 509 00:31:42.319 --> 00:31:45.160 said something to me that was so interesting. He said, 510 00:31:47.000 --> 00:31:50.720 it's not cost effective to frack for oil if oil 511 00:31:50.960 --> 00:31:54.519 is at sixty dollars a barrel or lower. Okay, if 512 00:31:54.519 --> 00:31:58.400 it's over sixty, fracking is cost effective. It's profitable. Everybody's 513 00:31:58.440 --> 00:32:01.920 gonna want to do it. Okay, Well, oil is what 514 00:32:02.039 --> 00:32:04.920 one hundred and ten hundred and fifteen dollars a barrel 515 00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:09.160 right now, and we're fracking a little bit. But what 516 00:32:09.200 --> 00:32:12.000 are we doing with the fract oil. We're sending it 517 00:32:12.039 --> 00:32:15.440 to Japan. We sell all that oil to Japan. So 518 00:32:15.720 --> 00:32:22.680 when why would we export our own oil and import 519 00:32:22.759 --> 00:32:26.079 Middle Eastern oil? Because that's exactly what we do well. 520 00:32:26.119 --> 00:32:28.559 We do it to maintain that tie to the Middle East. 521 00:32:29.559 --> 00:32:31.720 And as much as I hate Henry Kissinger, and I 522 00:32:31.799 --> 00:32:34.680 really do. The butcher of Cyprus, the butcher of Chile, 523 00:32:34.799 --> 00:32:39.839 the butcher of Cambodia. I hate Henry Kissinger. He was 524 00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:45.759 telling us the truth when he said that this policy, 525 00:32:45.880 --> 00:32:52.440 as as awful as it may seem, as calculating and 526 00:32:52.480 --> 00:32:56.000 cunning as it may seem, it's a reality of American 527 00:32:56.039 --> 00:33:01.400 foreign policy. It really is. Yeah, And let's say so, 528 00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:04.799 if you don't mind, Jay, I feel for just to 529 00:33:04.880 --> 00:33:09.599 speak a minute about Venezuela. How does Venezuela fit in 530 00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:14.039 or not fit into this? Venezuela is different, it's separate. Venezuela. 531 00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:19.720 Venezuela's oil is is so dirty. It is so high 532 00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:24.359 in sulfur that it can only be refined at specialty 533 00:33:24.440 --> 00:33:29.279 refineries where they inject tons of chemicals to try to 534 00:33:29.480 --> 00:33:34.640 purify it. Even still, you can't purify it enough to 535 00:33:35.200 --> 00:33:41.880 turn it into gasoline. Right And these these refineries exist 536 00:33:42.279 --> 00:33:46.559 right now, for the most part, only in South Florida. 537 00:33:46.880 --> 00:33:49.640 The Chinese built one. Recently, the Indians built one. But 538 00:33:49.680 --> 00:33:52.039 for the most part, the only refineries that can handle 539 00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:56.119 this really dark, heavy oil are in Florida, and the 540 00:33:56.160 --> 00:34:00.359 oil is used only for home heating oil. We talk 541 00:34:00.400 --> 00:34:04.519 about oil and International Oil and OPEC, of which Venezuela 542 00:34:04.559 --> 00:34:06.960 is a member. We have to keep Venezuela sort of 543 00:34:06.960 --> 00:34:09.559 off to the side because it's a different issue from 544 00:34:09.599 --> 00:34:11.079 a foreign policy perspective. 545 00:34:12.639 --> 00:34:15.119 Yeah, that's a great point too, because I think people don't, 546 00:34:15.159 --> 00:34:18.320 we don't think about these different regions having very, very different, 547 00:34:19.239 --> 00:34:23.239 you know, ways that they fit into the global you 548 00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:27.199 know system. But I do want to ask you too 549 00:34:27.239 --> 00:34:32.159 about briefly here because you've had such a there's so 550 00:34:32.159 --> 00:34:35.599 many places we could go, You've had such an adventuresome life, 551 00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.079 and I've listened to you many times till the stories 552 00:34:38.079 --> 00:34:40.400 of when you were stationed in Greece and you were 553 00:34:40.400 --> 00:34:43.239 dealing with the left, And the first thing that came 554 00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.320 to my mind was in the case of these leftist 555 00:34:46.400 --> 00:34:48.719 organizations at one of which I think you'll try to 556 00:34:48.760 --> 00:34:53.360 have you unalived, shall we say, And feel free to 557 00:34:53.440 --> 00:34:55.239 rehearse that story if you'd like, because I think this 558 00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:59.559 audience may not have heard it. But the first thing 559 00:34:59.599 --> 00:35:00.920 that comes from my mind when I hear this kind 560 00:35:00.920 --> 00:35:03.800 of stuff is who funds these things? Like I've never 561 00:35:03.840 --> 00:35:06.960 even heard of this left Greek this organization that was 562 00:35:07.039 --> 00:35:11.079 radical left, and we always look to the money to 563 00:35:11.119 --> 00:35:14.400 see you know, who's funding who's pushing this? Who would 564 00:35:14.400 --> 00:35:19.039 fund such a thing? And why would it be Soviet? 565 00:35:19.320 --> 00:35:20.800 I mean, the Cold War is kind of coming to 566 00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:22.599 an end, Like who would be behind that? 567 00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:25.599 Oh my god, I could talk about this for the 568 00:35:25.639 --> 00:35:28.760 next two hours. I'm gonna make it short. So the 569 00:35:28.760 --> 00:35:36.199 group you're talking about is called revolutionary Organization seventeen November. God, 570 00:35:36.199 --> 00:35:40.719 where do I even begin? Okay, let's talk about about 571 00:35:41.480 --> 00:35:43.119 I'll tell you the first time we ever heard of 572 00:35:43.119 --> 00:35:51.440 seventeen November. In October of nineteen seventy five, the CIA 573 00:35:51.599 --> 00:35:53.960 named a new station chief in Athens. His name was 574 00:35:54.039 --> 00:35:59.559 Richard Welch. Dick. Welch was a phil Helen. He was 575 00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:02.679 a love of all things Greek. He had a degree 576 00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:07.079 in the Classics. He spoke Ancient Greek, he spoke modern Greek. 577 00:36:07.599 --> 00:36:13.239 He got a master's degree in archaeology. This guy just loved, loved, 578 00:36:13.320 --> 00:36:17.960 loved everything Greece. And he's named CIA station chief in Athens. 579 00:36:18.039 --> 00:36:23.679 So he arrives six weeks later on December twenty third, 580 00:36:23.880 --> 00:36:27.880 nineteen seventy five, he's invited to the US Ambassador's Christmas party. 581 00:36:28.519 --> 00:36:32.559 He and his wife go to the ambassador's Christmas party 582 00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:36.800 in their chauffeur driven car. They have a good time 583 00:36:36.920 --> 00:36:39.599 by all accounts, and at the end of the party 584 00:36:39.599 --> 00:36:43.679 they drive back to their house in a very close 585 00:36:43.719 --> 00:36:49.920 and very high end suburb of Athens called Siheko. These 586 00:36:49.960 --> 00:36:54.239 are the days before automatic door openers or gate openers, 587 00:36:54.280 --> 00:36:56.400 so the driver pulls up to the gate and gets 588 00:36:56.440 --> 00:36:58.599 out of the car to open the gate to drive 589 00:36:58.719 --> 00:37:02.760 into the proper. There is a car parked directly across 590 00:37:02.760 --> 00:37:05.480 the street. There are three men and a woman inside 591 00:37:05.519 --> 00:37:10.559 the car. We never identified the woman. Two of the 592 00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:12.840 men get out of the car and one of them 593 00:37:12.920 --> 00:37:16.000 shouts in Greek Richard Welch get out of the car. 594 00:37:17.119 --> 00:37:19.559 Dick gets out of the car, and Missus Welch gets 595 00:37:19.599 --> 00:37:23.360 out of the car. The driver runs for his life. 596 00:37:23.400 --> 00:37:25.480 One of the men says Richard Welch, you have been 597 00:37:25.519 --> 00:37:28.079 found guilty of crimes against the Greek people, and you've 598 00:37:28.079 --> 00:37:31.239 been sentenced to death, and then shoots him three times 599 00:37:31.239 --> 00:37:34.320 in the chest with a forty five caliber semi automatic 600 00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:36.840 handgun that became known as the Welch forty five. They 601 00:37:36.920 --> 00:37:40.800 killed eighteen more people with that same gun between nineteen 602 00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:45.559 seventy five and two thousand and two. They then got 603 00:37:45.599 --> 00:37:52.079 back in the car and drove away. The Greek police 604 00:37:52.119 --> 00:37:57.679 were so inept that the killers had to call the 605 00:37:57.679 --> 00:38:00.639 cops a week ago and say, you eighty, it's the 606 00:38:00.719 --> 00:38:04.280 getaway car we left abandoned at the intersection of this 607 00:38:04.360 --> 00:38:08.719 street and that street. Go get it. In the meantime, 608 00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:12.639 the killers wrote a manifesto. Now this became a theme. 609 00:38:12.679 --> 00:38:16.039 They would write a manifesto at almost every attack over 610 00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:23.519 the next twenty seven years. But this manifesto they sent 611 00:38:23.719 --> 00:38:28.840 to a sympathizer in Paris, and the sympathizer in Paris 612 00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:33.199 hand delivered it to the French philosopher Jean Paul Sartre. 613 00:38:34.679 --> 00:38:37.079 Sartre read it and said, what is this craziness? And 614 00:38:37.119 --> 00:38:40.119 he literally put it in a desk drawer and forgot 615 00:38:40.159 --> 00:38:46.719 about it. A year later, the former chief of the 616 00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:51.599 Greek National Police, a man named Malios. He had been 617 00:38:51.639 --> 00:38:55.320 the chief of the Greek National Police during the military dictatorship, 618 00:38:55.320 --> 00:39:02.239 and he was a deeply hated torturer. He would leave 619 00:39:02.280 --> 00:39:06.199 his apartment every single day at the same time and 620 00:39:06.480 --> 00:39:09.199 buy a newspaper and go to the coffee shop and 621 00:39:09.280 --> 00:39:14.199 drink coffee. And this one day in April of two thousand, 622 00:39:14.280 --> 00:39:18.239 I'm sorry. In April of nineteen seventy six, he came 623 00:39:18.280 --> 00:39:20.480 out of his apartment. There was a man and a 624 00:39:20.519 --> 00:39:26.280 woman there making out, and he told us later on 625 00:39:26.360 --> 00:39:30.480 his deathbed that he smiled when he saw them, and 626 00:39:30.519 --> 00:39:33.920 he thought to himself, young love in the spring. As 627 00:39:33.960 --> 00:39:36.840 soon as he walked past them, the man pulled out 628 00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:39.440 the Welch forty five and shot him three times in 629 00:39:39.480 --> 00:39:43.920 the back. He lived for two hours, and the description 630 00:39:44.000 --> 00:39:46.960 he gave of the shooter matched Missus Welch's description of 631 00:39:46.960 --> 00:39:52.679 the shooter in her husband's assassination. They sent another manifesto 632 00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:57.159 to Jean Paul Sartre, so Sartra receives it. Actually Sartre 633 00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:05.199 didn't receive it. Henri Levie what's his name, Bernard Henri Levie, 634 00:40:05.320 --> 00:40:10.119 who is today France's most famous philosopher and poet and 635 00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:13.639 was Sartra's assistant at the time. He said, wait a minute, 636 00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:17.559 we've received something like this before, and he found the 637 00:40:17.599 --> 00:40:21.199 original one in the desk, and then he sent them 638 00:40:21.199 --> 00:40:25.119 both to Liberacion magazine or newspaper. It's the leftist newspaper 639 00:40:25.159 --> 00:40:28.800 in Paris. They published them that put seventeen November on 640 00:40:28.880 --> 00:40:31.760 the map. Seventeen November was named after the date in 641 00:40:31.880 --> 00:40:36.239 nineteen seventy four when there was a student uprising at 642 00:40:36.280 --> 00:40:42.159 the Athens Polytechnic University where the military dictatorship, in its 643 00:40:42.239 --> 00:40:48.440 final death throws, opened fire with tanks on unarmed students 644 00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:53.039 and to hear the students tell it, killed five hundred. 645 00:40:53.400 --> 00:40:55.960 To hear the fascist tell it, they killed three dozen. 646 00:40:56.440 --> 00:41:00.159 We'll never know. They destroyed most of the bodies. But 647 00:41:00.199 --> 00:41:02.559 that puts seventeen November on the map. And you ask 648 00:41:02.639 --> 00:41:07.280 a very very important question, where did they get the money. 649 00:41:07.360 --> 00:41:11.519 We just assumed in nineteen seventy five that these guys 650 00:41:11.519 --> 00:41:15.480 were tied to the KGB, but we had a long 651 00:41:15.599 --> 00:41:18.960 standing agreement with the KGB. You don't kill our guys 652 00:41:19.199 --> 00:41:22.000 and we don't kill your guys. We try to recruit 653 00:41:22.039 --> 00:41:26.760 each other's guys, but no killing. And the Russians came 654 00:41:26.800 --> 00:41:29.719 to us and they said, listen, this was not us. 655 00:41:30.159 --> 00:41:33.800 It just was not us. And then the Bulgarians proactively 656 00:41:33.840 --> 00:41:36.079 came to us and said, we promised this was not us, 657 00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.360 and we can tell you it was not the Soviets. 658 00:41:40.079 --> 00:41:42.440 We couldn't figure out who it was, so how did 659 00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:46.880 they get their money, how do they sell finance? They 660 00:41:46.920 --> 00:41:51.159 would rob banks and post offices. Now remember these were 661 00:41:51.159 --> 00:41:54.800 the days when everything was done in cash, everything, and 662 00:41:54.840 --> 00:41:57.840 they would just rob banks and post offices in broad daylight. 663 00:41:58.559 --> 00:42:02.679 And then they would raid police stations in the middle 664 00:42:02.679 --> 00:42:05.960 of the night, grabbed the handful of cops that were 665 00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.679 on duty, tie them up, hold them hostage, steal all 666 00:42:09.760 --> 00:42:13.320 of their weapons and all of their ammunition. And just 667 00:42:13.360 --> 00:42:18.920 to add insult to injury, there is a large military 668 00:42:19.000 --> 00:42:21.639 museum in Athens, right in the center of Athens. The 669 00:42:21.679 --> 00:42:25.119 Greeks are very proud of it. And in the nineteen 670 00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:31.440 eighties somebody who was a member of seventeen November went 671 00:42:31.480 --> 00:42:37.559 into the military museum and realized that none of the 672 00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:42.639 weapons on display had been deactivated. They were all live 673 00:42:42.719 --> 00:42:49.559 weapons on display, rocket launchers, machine guns. So they went 674 00:42:49.639 --> 00:42:54.159 one day, a group of four terrorists went just as 675 00:42:54.199 --> 00:42:59.280 the museum opened, took everybody hostage, and then just took 676 00:42:59.400 --> 00:43:03.199 all of these live weapons off the wall. And then 677 00:43:03.239 --> 00:43:08.280 a couple of months later they raided a military weapons 678 00:43:08.320 --> 00:43:12.800 depot in Ladisa in central Greece and stall all the 679 00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:15.840 ammunition needed for the weapons that they stole from the 680 00:43:15.880 --> 00:43:22.679 military museum, so they self financed, they self armed, and 681 00:43:22.719 --> 00:43:27.679 then there were specialty weapons that they somehow came into 682 00:43:27.760 --> 00:43:31.960 the possession of. And that's where I came in. I 683 00:43:32.039 --> 00:43:36.960 was able to identify analytically a connection between seventeen November 684 00:43:37.480 --> 00:43:41.480 and Carlos the Jackal. And if your viewers don't know 685 00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:44.559 who Carlos the Jackal was, he was the Osama bin 686 00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:47.760 Laden of the nineteen seventies and eighties. He was the 687 00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:52.480 most feared terrorist on the planet. He was a Venezuelan 688 00:43:52.519 --> 00:44:00.000 communist named Iliot Ramirez Sanchez, and he went by Carlos. 689 00:44:00.480 --> 00:44:05.760 The media dubbed him Carlos the Jackal, loosely based on 690 00:44:05.800 --> 00:44:07.960 the book that led to the movie The Day of 691 00:44:08.000 --> 00:44:13.679 the Jackal, and Carlos provided the group with the weapons 692 00:44:13.719 --> 00:44:20.320 that they needed that they couldn't steal. In two thousand, 693 00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:23.960 I was stationed in Greece from nineteen ninety eight to 694 00:44:24.000 --> 00:44:30.199 two thousand and my entire reason for being in Greece 695 00:44:30.840 --> 00:44:39.559 was to infiltrate and destroy seventeen November. We promised Missus 696 00:44:39.559 --> 00:44:42.119 Welch in nineteen seventy five we would find her husband's 697 00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:44.199 killers and we would bring them to justice. And we 698 00:44:44.360 --> 00:44:50.400 meant it. It took twenty seven years, but I took 699 00:44:50.440 --> 00:44:54.880 delivery of a fully armored level four armored BMW five forty. 700 00:44:56.679 --> 00:44:59.639 My next door neighbor was the newly arrived British Defense 701 00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:04.360 Attack Stephen Saunders, Brigadier General one star. I like Stephen 702 00:45:04.400 --> 00:45:08.119 a lot, but he was a media whore. Anytime he 703 00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:10.000 saw a camera, he would run right in front of 704 00:45:10.000 --> 00:45:13.599 it and offer up an interview and he would just 705 00:45:13.679 --> 00:45:19.360 loved being on TV. We happen to be invited to 706 00:45:19.480 --> 00:45:23.400 a cocktail party the night of the day that I 707 00:45:23.440 --> 00:45:29.199 took delivery of the of the new car, and I 708 00:45:29.280 --> 00:45:32.360 was standing with Stephen with the American Defense and the 709 00:45:32.360 --> 00:45:36.079 French Defense stache. And Stephen was making fun of me 710 00:45:36.719 --> 00:45:39.639 because of my new car. As I said, we lived 711 00:45:39.679 --> 00:45:42.320 next door to not next door, but our backyards abutted. 712 00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:48.119 And he says to me, you Americans, you're so paranoid 713 00:45:48.199 --> 00:45:52.320 about security. He said, this is an EU country, it's 714 00:45:52.320 --> 00:45:55.639 a NATO country. What are you so afraid of? And 715 00:45:55.719 --> 00:45:59.079 everybody starts to chuckle, and I said to him, you 716 00:45:59.239 --> 00:46:02.360 Brits live in a dream world if you think that 717 00:46:02.440 --> 00:46:05.800 because they have pretty beaches and palm trees that they're 718 00:46:05.800 --> 00:46:07.639 not going to kill you if they have the chance. 719 00:46:07.960 --> 00:46:10.360 Believe me, if they have the chance, they're going to 720 00:46:10.480 --> 00:46:13.679 kill you. And then we all laughed again. To make 721 00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:16.519 a long story short, two weeks later, they killed him, 722 00:46:18.000 --> 00:46:22.119 and they killed him in broad daylight, during the morning rush. 723 00:46:22.480 --> 00:46:26.800 They finally issued a manifesto several months afterwards in which 724 00:46:26.880 --> 00:46:29.599 they specifically said that they set out that morning to 725 00:46:29.719 --> 00:46:33.840 kill me, but that I was driving an armored car 726 00:46:33.920 --> 00:46:36.480 and they knew that I was armed, And it said, 727 00:46:36.559 --> 00:46:39.599 and so we elected to carry out the revolutionary sentence 728 00:46:39.679 --> 00:46:42.360 on the war criminals, Saunders. 729 00:46:42.320 --> 00:46:42.719 And so. 730 00:46:45.000 --> 00:46:51.360 That killing. Everybody liked Stephen. That killing was what began 731 00:46:51.480 --> 00:46:55.719 to change public opinion. Seventeen November would attack. They killed 732 00:46:55.719 --> 00:46:59.480 the Turkish ambassador, the Turkish deputy ambassador, They killed the 733 00:46:59.519 --> 00:47:03.119 head of the Federal tax Office, They killed the governor 734 00:47:03.159 --> 00:47:05.679 of the Central Bank, they killed the Minister of Finance, 735 00:47:05.719 --> 00:47:08.599 they killed the Minister of Communications. But they were largely 736 00:47:08.679 --> 00:47:14.199 seen as Robin Hood right, Oh, taxes were raised. They 737 00:47:14.239 --> 00:47:16.960 set fire to six tax offices and then murder the 738 00:47:17.000 --> 00:47:20.719 head of the tax service. And people are like, oh, okay, 739 00:47:20.880 --> 00:47:23.000 well they're for the poor people. No, they're not for 740 00:47:23.039 --> 00:47:26.199 the poor people. It's an armed criminal gang, is all 741 00:47:26.239 --> 00:47:29.760 it is. So in two thousand and two, in April 742 00:47:29.840 --> 00:47:33.599 of two thousand and two, a man was walking in 743 00:47:33.639 --> 00:47:38.320 Paraeus with a paper bag like a grocery bag, carrying 744 00:47:38.360 --> 00:47:40.719 a bomb, and he was going to put the bomb 745 00:47:40.800 --> 00:47:44.079 underneath the car of a billionaire shipowner, and the bomb 746 00:47:44.159 --> 00:47:47.159 went off. It blew off both of his hands and 747 00:47:47.360 --> 00:47:50.360 blew out his right eye. And as he was bleeding 748 00:47:50.400 --> 00:47:56.639 to death, a policeman runs across the street takes off 749 00:47:56.679 --> 00:48:01.000 his own shirt to staunch the blood squirting out of 750 00:48:01.000 --> 00:48:05.360 his stumps, and the guy confesses to being seventeen November's 751 00:48:05.599 --> 00:48:09.079 chief bomber. He names all the members of seventeen November, 752 00:48:09.440 --> 00:48:12.039 and he gives the address of the safe house where 753 00:48:12.079 --> 00:48:17.519 all the weapons are stored. And then he survived, and 754 00:48:17.559 --> 00:48:21.039 so the Greeks were able to arrest all of them. 755 00:48:21.599 --> 00:48:27.199 The three most prominent members received sentences of one thy, 756 00:48:27.360 --> 00:48:30.800 seven hundred and sixty five years in prison. The only 757 00:48:30.840 --> 00:48:33.360 two things that the cops were never able to recover 758 00:48:33.960 --> 00:48:38.320 were the old school typewriter that they used to type 759 00:48:38.360 --> 00:48:43.920 the manifestos and the Welsh forty five. It's out there somewhere, 760 00:48:45.480 --> 00:48:50.599 but anyway, they were unusual in that the Soviet Union 761 00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:55.920 was far too liberal for them. They were old school Stalinists. 762 00:48:56.599 --> 00:49:00.400 They wanted Das to fall into line or face death, 763 00:49:01.679 --> 00:49:05.360 and they saw themselves as the ones to carry out 764 00:49:05.400 --> 00:49:06.119 that policy. 765 00:49:07.519 --> 00:49:09.920 I wanted to ask you about David Jackal because and 766 00:49:09.960 --> 00:49:12.519 this is something that I've only recently sort of got 767 00:49:12.599 --> 00:49:15.800 hipped to, and that's because there were some articles written 768 00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:20.639 recently that Candice Owens shared that kind of tied into 769 00:49:21.159 --> 00:49:24.960 the possibility of French foreign legion and this kind of stuff. 770 00:49:25.119 --> 00:49:28.199 I don't have any theory on that. I don't ascribe 771 00:49:28.239 --> 00:49:31.119 to all of her theories, but there was an interesting 772 00:49:31.199 --> 00:49:35.800 article written by a French analyst about the possibility that 773 00:49:35.840 --> 00:49:40.519 there are actual hit squads and they might be considered French, 774 00:49:41.159 --> 00:49:43.280 but they might not actually be French. They might actually 775 00:49:43.280 --> 00:49:46.039 be other Middle Eastern countries that are actually behind some 776 00:49:46.119 --> 00:49:46.719 of these hits. 777 00:49:47.280 --> 00:49:50.599 And I know, huh, they're French. 778 00:49:51.000 --> 00:49:53.519 Well, I don't doubt that. But what I'm saying is 779 00:49:53.559 --> 00:49:58.679 that there are people that theorized that that Israel had 780 00:49:58.679 --> 00:50:02.719 a role in the background of some of these French operations, 781 00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:06.000 not just banking, but also other things that are going 782 00:50:06.000 --> 00:50:08.480 on in France that not many people are very hip to. 783 00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:12.440 But I wanted to ask you about the situation with 784 00:50:12.559 --> 00:50:15.320 Day of the Jackal, because that, of course that story 785 00:50:15.400 --> 00:50:18.679 is about the Gal and I'm curious. So you're saying 786 00:50:18.679 --> 00:50:23.199 that Carlos the Jackal is the name came from that? 787 00:50:23.239 --> 00:50:24.360 Is that what you're saying that they ca. 788 00:50:24.599 --> 00:50:27.079 Yeah, it's a funny thing. It's one of these chicken 789 00:50:27.159 --> 00:50:34.480 or egg situations where Carlos was all most caught in 790 00:50:34.519 --> 00:50:39.119 a raid on his friend's apartment in Brussels. His friend 791 00:50:39.159 --> 00:50:43.559 was not a terrorist and didn't realize that Carlos, that 792 00:50:43.679 --> 00:50:48.280 his friend Iliach was Carlos, right, although he was not 793 00:50:48.360 --> 00:50:50.840 yet known as Carlos. Anyway, the cops raid the apartment, 794 00:50:51.400 --> 00:50:56.239 Carlos has already gone, and a French photojournalist took pictures 795 00:50:56.599 --> 00:51:00.639 of like every inch of the apartment, and it turned 796 00:51:00.639 --> 00:51:03.199 out that the Belgian guy was reading the book The 797 00:51:03.280 --> 00:51:06.280 Day of the Jackal and it was on the side table, 798 00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:12.960 and so the French journalist just decided to call this 799 00:51:13.079 --> 00:51:16.639 unnamed terrorist we didn't yet know it was Eliot Ramirez Sanchez, 800 00:51:16.840 --> 00:51:22.599 to call him the Jackal. And then it just so 801 00:51:22.679 --> 00:51:25.519 happened that a book that was next to the Day 802 00:51:25.519 --> 00:51:29.960 of the Jackal was written by a Spanish I forget 803 00:51:29.960 --> 00:51:32.440 his name now, but his first name was Carlos, and 804 00:51:32.519 --> 00:51:34.440 so this French reporter just made it up out of 805 00:51:34.480 --> 00:51:38.440 whole cloth, Carlos the Jackal, and then we learned later. 806 00:51:40.039 --> 00:51:42.400 We learned later Carlos was like, where did the fuck 807 00:51:42.480 --> 00:51:45.039 did this name come from? I don't like this name. 808 00:51:45.360 --> 00:51:48.440 Why are they calling me Carlos? And what's this jackal thing? 809 00:51:48.480 --> 00:51:50.519 Why are they calling me the Jackal? I'll tell you 810 00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:54.440 I met Carlos in two thousand. It took me over 811 00:51:54.559 --> 00:52:00.480 a year to get permission to see him, serving a 812 00:52:00.559 --> 00:52:03.159 life without pearl sentence in France for the murder of 813 00:52:03.199 --> 00:52:13.360 seven French policemen. I had. I had gone to see 814 00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:18.360 his ex wife, Magdalena cop in Germany. They share a daughter, 815 00:52:19.119 --> 00:52:23.639 and she dropped out of terrorism. She she had had 816 00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:25.599 enough and she just dropped out. She had done time 817 00:52:25.639 --> 00:52:29.400 in prison. She was like enough and she quit. So 818 00:52:29.519 --> 00:52:33.440 I begged her to write to Carlos and tell him 819 00:52:33.440 --> 00:52:36.800 that that I really did need to talk to him. 820 00:52:36.920 --> 00:52:39.320 I wasn't going to you know, I'm not trying to 821 00:52:39.360 --> 00:52:41.719 get him in trouble. I only want to know about 822 00:52:41.719 --> 00:52:46.320 the Greeks. And it took over a year, and then, 823 00:52:46.360 --> 00:52:49.760 of course, yeah, the French insisted that they had to 824 00:52:49.760 --> 00:52:52.360 be there. So I go to Paris, I meet up 825 00:52:52.360 --> 00:52:56.079 with the French. We take a train. The prison was like, 826 00:52:56.119 --> 00:52:59.800 I don't know, forty minutes outside of town. And we 827 00:53:00.039 --> 00:53:02.679 finally get into the prison to see Carlos and I said, 828 00:53:03.599 --> 00:53:07.599 I said, thank you for seeing me. I'm John Kiriaku. 829 00:53:07.719 --> 00:53:13.320 I'm from the Cia. We promised Missus Welch that we would, 830 00:53:13.400 --> 00:53:16.880 you know, find her husband's killers. It's been twenty five years, 831 00:53:18.079 --> 00:53:22.280 et cetera, et cetera. And he listened and he's nodding, 832 00:53:22.280 --> 00:53:24.800 and he's nodding, and I said, all I want to 833 00:53:24.840 --> 00:53:29.599 know is who were the Greeks. Just give us the 834 00:53:29.679 --> 00:53:32.519 names of the Greeks. Give us one name, just someone 835 00:53:32.920 --> 00:53:36.280 that would lead me to the killers. And he goes, 836 00:53:37.159 --> 00:53:41.280 fuck you, And then he just got up and walked 837 00:53:41.280 --> 00:53:45.159 away from the you know, one of those plexiglass things. 838 00:53:45.719 --> 00:53:47.559 He just got up and walked away, and that was 839 00:53:47.599 --> 00:53:52.679 the end of it. He never gave us anything. Two 840 00:53:52.800 --> 00:53:56.639 years later, it didn't matter, and he's still in in prison. 841 00:53:56.679 --> 00:54:02.199 He'll die in prison. He's well into his seventies, now unrepentant, unapologetic. 842 00:54:02.480 --> 00:54:05.039 This is a guy, for those of your viewers who 843 00:54:05.119 --> 00:54:07.440 don't know any of the background, this is a guy 844 00:54:08.960 --> 00:54:16.480 who kidnapped literally every oil minister from every OPEK country 845 00:54:17.599 --> 00:54:20.880 during an OPEC summit. There was no PEC summit taking 846 00:54:20.880 --> 00:54:25.800 place in Vienna, Austria. He and his gang raided the 847 00:54:25.840 --> 00:54:32.039 meeting site and they kidnapped every member of OPEK at 848 00:54:32.039 --> 00:54:36.440 the same time, and the Saudis paid him something like 849 00:54:36.480 --> 00:54:40.679 a billion dollars to let everybody go. It was Carlos 850 00:54:40.719 --> 00:54:44.159 that worked with Kadafi to set up these training camps 851 00:54:44.199 --> 00:54:50.159 in Libya where the PFLP, the PFLPGC, the DFLP, Abu Nidal, 852 00:54:50.320 --> 00:54:55.679 the ira Popular Revolutionary Struggle, they all sent their people 853 00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:57.840 there to be trained at these camps in the desert. 854 00:54:57.920 --> 00:55:00.480 Carlos was the money guy, and Carlo this was the 855 00:55:00.480 --> 00:55:04.679 weapons guy. Carlos was working with the Romanians and the Bulgarians. 856 00:55:04.880 --> 00:55:07.840 You know, they were producing gigantic amounts of weapons and 857 00:55:07.880 --> 00:55:10.480 ammunition and just selling them on the gray market. It 858 00:55:10.559 --> 00:55:14.000 was Carlos that had the relationship with the Eastern Europeans 859 00:55:14.199 --> 00:55:16.880 to buy the AK forty sevens and the hand grenades 860 00:55:16.920 --> 00:55:19.679 and the land mines and the bullets and then sell 861 00:55:19.719 --> 00:55:23.840 them to these groups through the Libyans. It was all 862 00:55:23.960 --> 00:55:28.360 very complicated and in my mind absolutely fascinating. You know, 863 00:55:28.719 --> 00:55:31.320 minus nine to eleven, I would have spent the rest 864 00:55:31.360 --> 00:55:33.320 of my career just working against these groups. 865 00:55:34.280 --> 00:55:38.400 That's that's what I find it fascinating too, because again, 866 00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:42.920 it seems rare, at least in my limited reading and research, 867 00:55:43.039 --> 00:55:47.920 that this type of a person is organic or alone, 868 00:55:48.360 --> 00:55:53.119 you know, weapons traffick or whatever. Terrorist person. There's usually networks, 869 00:55:53.159 --> 00:55:56.320 there's people behind me, there's money and power, right, So 870 00:55:56.719 --> 00:56:01.559 who's who? Is he just out for his own gain? 871 00:56:01.719 --> 00:56:03.400 Or was he a true believer in a kind of 872 00:56:03.440 --> 00:56:04.440 Leninist perspective? 873 00:56:04.800 --> 00:56:07.960 You know, for him it was a combination of pure 874 00:56:08.960 --> 00:56:15.679 Marxist ideology and money. You know. I'm going to tell 875 00:56:15.679 --> 00:56:20.639 you one other story about Carlos. I've spoken a number 876 00:56:20.679 --> 00:56:22.199 of times about a guy that I used to work 877 00:56:22.239 --> 00:56:25.880 with at the agency. Was a legendary contractor named Billy 878 00:56:25.920 --> 00:56:32.119 Waugh waug h Billy. Billy was one short of the 879 00:56:32.199 --> 00:56:36.880 US record. He had seventeen purple hearts from World War Two, Korea, 880 00:56:36.960 --> 00:56:42.000 and Vietnam. He was a stone cold killer, one of 881 00:56:42.039 --> 00:56:44.639 these guys that would go into a village in Vietnam 882 00:56:44.719 --> 00:56:49.239 and just mow down every living thing. So he was 883 00:56:49.280 --> 00:56:52.679 a longtime CIA contractor. He and I worked very closely together. 884 00:56:52.760 --> 00:56:55.039 It was actually just the two of us in the 885 00:56:55.079 --> 00:56:57.960 Middle East before nine to eleven. We did this long 886 00:56:58.039 --> 00:57:02.800 term operation together. But anyway, he told me the most 887 00:57:02.800 --> 00:57:07.280 fascinating story. The details in a biography about him that 888 00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:10.480 his niece wrote differ a little, but the core of 889 00:57:10.519 --> 00:57:12.280 the story is the same. The way he told it 890 00:57:12.320 --> 00:57:17.519 to me was thusie. He was assigned to the CIA 891 00:57:17.559 --> 00:57:21.840 station in Khartum, Soudan, and you know, it was one 892 00:57:21.840 --> 00:57:25.519 of those situations pre nine to eleven where you got 893 00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:28.039 to work seven days a week, but every once in 894 00:57:28.079 --> 00:57:29.960 a while, just say you don't go crazy, you have 895 00:57:30.000 --> 00:57:33.079 to take a day off and sleep in. So there's 896 00:57:33.280 --> 00:57:38.360 one day he and another guy from the station go 897 00:57:38.440 --> 00:57:42.519 to the vegetable market just to buy some vegetables, and 898 00:57:43.880 --> 00:57:46.599 he said, he's there buying vegetables and he looks over 899 00:57:47.800 --> 00:57:50.480 and he sees the only other white man that he 900 00:57:50.519 --> 00:57:53.280 ever saw in Khartoum. And he's looking at this white 901 00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:55.880 guy in the vegetable market and he says to his buddy, 902 00:57:56.519 --> 00:58:00.440 that's Carlos the Jackal, and his friend says, the fuck 903 00:58:00.480 --> 00:58:03.239 out of here. He said, I'm telling you that's Carlos 904 00:58:03.320 --> 00:58:06.320 the Jackal, and then Carlos kind of got away in 905 00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:11.239 the crowd. They run back to the station. Koepfer Black 906 00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:15.559 who became the director of counter Terrorism and then later 907 00:58:15.639 --> 00:58:19.559 became Ambassador koe for Black and the chairman of Blackwater 908 00:58:19.800 --> 00:58:22.639 after that. Koefer was the station chief at the time, 909 00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:25.559 and Billy says he ran into Kofer's office. Cooefer's on 910 00:58:25.559 --> 00:58:29.440 an elliptical machine in the office and he says, Kofer, 911 00:58:29.920 --> 00:58:32.719 I just came from the vegetable market and I saw 912 00:58:32.800 --> 00:58:36.559 Carlos the Jackal, and Cooepher says, get the fuck out 913 00:58:36.559 --> 00:58:39.440 of here, Carlos the Jackal. What in the world would 914 00:58:39.480 --> 00:58:44.079 Carlos be doing in Sudan of all places. You're nuts, 915 00:58:44.840 --> 00:58:48.880 he said, I'm telling you it was Carlos. So he says, well, 916 00:58:48.920 --> 00:58:52.360 we can't just cable headquarters and say Carlos the Jackals 917 00:58:52.360 --> 00:58:54.639 in cartoon. We need proof. You got to get a 918 00:58:54.679 --> 00:58:58.880 picture of him. Billy went back to the vegetable market 919 00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:04.280 every single day for a month, and then he saw 920 00:59:04.320 --> 00:59:08.840 him again. So what they did is they paid these 921 00:59:08.880 --> 00:59:12.800 two Soudanese guys to get into a fist fight. And 922 00:59:12.880 --> 00:59:16.360 you know in Africa and the Middle East, fighting is 923 00:59:16.440 --> 00:59:19.000 very very rare. So two guys start duking it out, 924 00:59:19.000 --> 00:59:21.599 a big circle forms around them. Everybody wants to get 925 00:59:21.599 --> 00:59:26.440 a look, and so that's what happens, and Carlos, kind 926 00:59:26.440 --> 00:59:28.840 of a little guy, he runs over to get a look, 927 00:59:29.039 --> 00:59:31.920 and he's kind of creating his neck to see, you know, 928 00:59:31.960 --> 00:59:34.679 who's fighting, what's going on, And Billy's there just going 929 00:59:34.719 --> 00:59:37.280 click click click click click click click click click click click. 930 00:59:38.239 --> 00:59:40.400 They send the film back to headquarters and they said, 931 00:59:40.480 --> 00:59:42.679 oh my god, it's Carlos the Jackal. But he had 932 00:59:42.719 --> 00:59:46.000 the presence of mind after the fight to follow Carlos 933 00:59:46.079 --> 00:59:48.840 discreetly to his house, so they were able to identify 934 00:59:48.880 --> 00:59:56.000 the house. They initiated an operation where Carlos was deemed 935 00:59:57.119 --> 01:00:02.239 was made to be unconscious temporarily, and when Carlos woke up, 936 01:00:02.760 --> 01:00:06.079 he was on a French military plane on the way 937 01:00:06.119 --> 01:00:10.679 to Paris and he's been he's been in prison ever since. 938 01:00:13.960 --> 01:00:17.719 I mean, these stories are awesome. I love hearing these 939 01:00:17.800 --> 01:00:21.920 kind of stories, and they're not told enough on that point, 940 01:00:23.360 --> 01:00:25.400 and again this is for the sake of the audience, 941 01:00:25.639 --> 01:00:28.519 and I'd like to see what you think about this now, 942 01:00:28.719 --> 01:00:33.280 reflecting back to your younger days. Why does the US 943 01:00:34.079 --> 01:00:38.360 care what an organization of leftists are doing in Greece? 944 01:00:39.079 --> 01:00:41.880 Why are you there in Greece? You know you're Greek, 945 01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:44.440 But I'm saying, we wouldn't. 946 01:00:44.039 --> 01:00:47.039 Have cared had they not been murdering Americans. They killed 947 01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:51.159 the c I station chief. They killed two US defense attaches, 948 01:00:51.239 --> 01:00:58.280 Bill Norden and George Santis. Bill Norden. The bomb that 949 01:00:58.519 --> 01:01:00.440 killed that they used to kill Bill norde was so 950 01:01:00.760 --> 01:01:05.360 big that we found Nordine's head on the roof of 951 01:01:05.440 --> 01:01:09.199 the next door neighbor's house. They meant business. They shot 952 01:01:09.440 --> 01:01:13.760 and gravely wounded the US DEA rep in the embassy. 953 01:01:15.360 --> 01:01:19.400 They shot and killed a hapless Air Force technical sergeant, 954 01:01:20.119 --> 01:01:23.280 an African American guy named Ron Stewart. He was just 955 01:01:23.360 --> 01:01:25.519 doing his laundry. They shot him and killed him in 956 01:01:25.559 --> 01:01:31.000 the laundry room of his apartment building. And the Greek 957 01:01:31.039 --> 01:01:33.840 public hated that too because he was black. They're like, 958 01:01:33.920 --> 01:01:35.960 come on, this man's oppressed in his own country, and 959 01:01:36.079 --> 01:01:39.840 that's the guy that you kill. So it was because 960 01:01:39.920 --> 01:01:45.679 they were actively targeting Americans that we went after them 961 01:01:45.760 --> 01:01:46.159 like we did. 962 01:01:47.119 --> 01:01:50.559 But I guess to think about the Cold War setting. 963 01:01:50.760 --> 01:01:53.000 I now, this is a kind of This may sound 964 01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:55.360 like a stupid question, but my context with this question 965 01:01:55.559 --> 01:02:01.559 is not stupidity. If I read say Brazenski, right, Brezenski 966 01:02:01.639 --> 01:02:03.920 in between two ages, He's got this footnote where he 967 01:02:04.000 --> 01:02:07.840 talks about Professor Anthony Sutton, and he quotes Sutton about 968 01:02:08.079 --> 01:02:10.960 the build up of the Soviet Union. And we find 969 01:02:11.079 --> 01:02:14.400 other references here and there in literature to certain figures 970 01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:16.719 that might have played or attempted to play both sides 971 01:02:16.800 --> 01:02:19.480 during the Cold War. We think about Robert Maxwell, we 972 01:02:19.519 --> 01:02:22.320 think about an arm and Hammer, we think about some 973 01:02:22.400 --> 01:02:25.880 people have theorized Lord Victor Rothschaw was not just British intelligence, 974 01:02:25.920 --> 01:02:29.960 but might have also been passing intelligence to the Soviets. 975 01:02:30.400 --> 01:02:32.320 And on the other side, Nikolai Chosku. 976 01:02:33.559 --> 01:02:37.079 Yeah, there seems to be quite a few instances where 977 01:02:37.800 --> 01:02:40.920 we're fighting this enemy that's also aided and propped up 978 01:02:40.920 --> 01:02:45.320 in many cases. And perhaps the Cold War, according to 979 01:02:45.400 --> 01:02:49.320 say doctor Quigley, was a bit exaggerated, right. In other words, 980 01:02:49.400 --> 01:02:53.519 the first National security the memorandum that kicks off the 981 01:02:53.599 --> 01:02:59.719 Cold War that Stalin is building up. Is it exaggerated 982 01:02:59.840 --> 01:03:03.079 or is applausible that the Cold War is real, but 983 01:03:03.239 --> 01:03:05.800 also at a certain level, perhaps desired. 984 01:03:06.760 --> 01:03:08.719 Oh, I think you've hit it on the head. I 985 01:03:08.800 --> 01:03:12.679 think that's exactly what the case was. Yeah. Sure, you know, 986 01:03:13.719 --> 01:03:17.360 historically here in the United States, Jay, we've always needed 987 01:03:17.480 --> 01:03:20.639 anism to be opposed to. You know, in the in 988 01:03:20.760 --> 01:03:25.760 the nineteen teens, it was anarchism, and then it was communism, 989 01:03:25.920 --> 01:03:30.119 and then it was socialism, and later on it became Islamism. 990 01:03:30.320 --> 01:03:33.400 I mean, there's always something that we need to rally against. 991 01:03:33.679 --> 01:03:37.280 But at the same time, that's how you know, the 992 01:03:37.360 --> 01:03:41.880 deep state is able to justify its budgets. This isn't 993 01:03:42.000 --> 01:03:44.559 anything that's new. It's been going on for more than 994 01:03:44.639 --> 01:03:52.119 a century. Sure, you have to rally Americans against something, you. 995 01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:54.199 Know, it's like smelly Butler said a long time ago, 996 01:03:54.280 --> 01:03:55.039 wars racket. 997 01:03:55.199 --> 01:03:55.360 Right. 998 01:03:56.480 --> 01:03:58.360 It would seem to me as well that World War 999 01:03:58.400 --> 01:04:00.960 One and World War Two, although they're obviously tragedies or 1000 01:04:02.239 --> 01:04:06.559 serious problems with ideologies. But again, it's almost like there's 1001 01:04:06.599 --> 01:04:11.760 a dialectical control where you want to have the opposition 1002 01:04:12.000 --> 01:04:14.320 to justify the existence. We just saw this for example 1003 01:04:14.360 --> 01:04:17.880 this week or last week. Excuse me, with the case 1004 01:04:18.000 --> 01:04:21.400 that they're going to put against the SBLC of you know, 1005 01:04:21.559 --> 01:04:25.559 sending significant amounts of money to people heading up these 1006 01:04:25.639 --> 01:04:29.679 obviously fake cutout groups, the ridiculous groups, but also the 1007 01:04:29.920 --> 01:04:31.840 head of the guy, you know, the Unite the Right 1008 01:04:32.199 --> 01:04:35.519 guy at Charlottesville that I think many of us thought, 1009 01:04:35.559 --> 01:04:37.239 even at the time, this is kind of a silly, 1010 01:04:37.360 --> 01:04:40.840 kind of honey trap type of situation, and it would 1011 01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:42.519 be really foolish, I think, to be involved in that 1012 01:04:42.639 --> 01:04:45.559 kind of stuff, and perhaps even similar situations with J six, 1013 01:04:45.639 --> 01:04:47.480 although I don't think that's come up yet in the 1014 01:04:48.039 --> 01:04:52.679 case of SBLC, but a similar kind of template of fomenting, 1015 01:04:52.840 --> 01:04:58.480 hyping up, causing funding the opposition in not every case, 1016 01:04:58.559 --> 01:05:00.639 but in many cases. And that's why think, you know, 1017 01:05:00.760 --> 01:05:02.639 not many people really talk about this in regard to 1018 01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:05.400 the Cold War, that we might have had very wealthy 1019 01:05:05.480 --> 01:05:08.920 people in the West and perhaps banking elites who wanted 1020 01:05:09.000 --> 01:05:12.920 to put money into communism, socialism, and perhaps even fascism too. 1021 01:05:13.599 --> 01:05:17.920 According to Sutton, because as you said, it justifies a 1022 01:05:18.000 --> 01:05:19.519 lot of what we do, and there's a lot of 1023 01:05:19.639 --> 01:05:24.159 resource extraction. There's a lot of geopolitical tactical you know, 1024 01:05:24.360 --> 01:05:28.079 bases that can be set up and you exposed by 1025 01:05:28.119 --> 01:05:31.079 the way. I want to say, maybe I'm not right 1026 01:05:31.119 --> 01:05:34.000 about this, but I remember years ago in the two thousands, 1027 01:05:34.039 --> 01:05:35.360 when I was trying to really study all of this 1028 01:05:35.400 --> 01:05:37.280 stuff in depth. I remember seeing all of a sudden 1029 01:05:38.480 --> 01:05:40.960 articles popping up maybe two thousand and eight, nine, ten, eleven, 1030 01:05:41.960 --> 01:05:46.280 Cia black sites exposed. They're in the new Suddenly we've 1031 01:05:46.280 --> 01:05:49.239 got this place in Romania, this black site. I think 1032 01:05:49.239 --> 01:05:52.000 people probably thought that these things existed, but then suddenly 1033 01:05:52.039 --> 01:05:56.400 we knew that they did exist. And you called a 1034 01:05:56.480 --> 01:06:00.800 lot of that out. That's why you got persecuted. Could 1035 01:06:00.800 --> 01:06:02.840 you explain, perhaps to those that are not familiar with 1036 01:06:02.920 --> 01:06:05.559 your story. Well, and I think you're a hero for 1037 01:06:05.639 --> 01:06:10.760 what you did. Why, yeah, why why call this out? 1038 01:06:10.880 --> 01:06:13.719 Why are we doing this? What's the justification from the 1039 01:06:13.840 --> 01:06:15.000 establishment's perspective. 1040 01:06:16.800 --> 01:06:20.480 Oh, the justification from the establishment's perspective was that we 1041 01:06:20.599 --> 01:06:27.119 needed to do literally everything to protect Americans, even if 1042 01:06:27.239 --> 01:06:31.519 what we were doing broke the law. And my position 1043 01:06:32.079 --> 01:06:35.719 was we're either going to be a nation of laws. 1044 01:06:36.320 --> 01:06:36.639 Or we're not. 1045 01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:41.719 We can't be both. You can't, you know, Ronald Reagan 1046 01:06:41.840 --> 01:06:44.679 called the United States a shining city on a hill, 1047 01:06:45.760 --> 01:06:48.679 a beacon of hope for human rights and civil rights 1048 01:06:48.719 --> 01:06:52.599 and civil liberties. I want that to be true. And 1049 01:06:52.880 --> 01:06:56.119 so you can't be that shining city on a hill 1050 01:06:57.360 --> 01:07:01.800 and have a torture program and a secret prison program 1051 01:07:02.280 --> 01:07:06.639 and an illegal rendition program and torture people to death 1052 01:07:07.119 --> 01:07:09.159 and then just dig a ditch next to the torture 1053 01:07:09.239 --> 01:07:11.639 chamber and dump their body in the ditch and then 1054 01:07:11.760 --> 01:07:15.280 talk about how you support human rights. So we're gonna 1055 01:07:15.280 --> 01:07:20.000 have to either pick one or the other. And I 1056 01:07:20.159 --> 01:07:23.840 came down on the side of law and order. I mean, 1057 01:07:23.880 --> 01:07:27.880 I hate to sound like an ideologue, but I came 1058 01:07:27.960 --> 01:07:30.480 down the side of, you know, the rule of law. 1059 01:07:32.119 --> 01:07:34.519 There was a I blew the whistle on the CIA's 1060 01:07:34.559 --> 01:07:37.639 torture program in December of two thousand and seven, and 1061 01:07:37.840 --> 01:07:39.960 I said three things. I said the CIA was torturing 1062 01:07:40.000 --> 01:07:44.079 its prisoners, that torture was official US government policy, and 1063 01:07:44.199 --> 01:07:46.719 that the policy had been personally approved by the President. 1064 01:07:47.559 --> 01:07:52.360 And I was prosecuted for that. I wish that I 1065 01:07:52.480 --> 01:07:56.599 had blown the whistle on the secret prison program. There 1066 01:07:56.719 --> 01:08:02.519 was a woman, she was a a contemporary mind at 1067 01:08:02.559 --> 01:08:06.960 the agency, and I respected her deeply. She swears that 1068 01:08:07.159 --> 01:08:08.719 she was not the one who blew the whistle, so 1069 01:08:08.800 --> 01:08:11.559 I won't use her name. But she was working at 1070 01:08:11.599 --> 01:08:15.960 the White House right after, right around the time I 1071 01:08:16.039 --> 01:08:19.199 got arrested, and she was escorted out of the White 1072 01:08:19.239 --> 01:08:21.600 House by the Secret Service, and they took her badge 1073 01:08:21.760 --> 01:08:23.520 and told her never to come back, and then she 1074 01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:29.960 was forcibly retired from the CIA. They said they leaked 1075 01:08:30.560 --> 01:08:33.760 that she had blown the whistle on the well. They 1076 01:08:33.760 --> 01:08:36.640 didn't say blow the whistle, that she had leaked information 1077 01:08:36.720 --> 01:08:41.479 about the existence of the secret prisons. She swore that 1078 01:08:41.720 --> 01:08:45.640 it wasn't her, and in private conversations she swore to 1079 01:08:45.720 --> 01:08:48.000 me that it wasn't her. And I said, well, if 1080 01:08:48.079 --> 01:08:51.479 it was you, then you are one of the great 1081 01:08:51.640 --> 01:08:55.239 heroes of the early part of the twenty first century, 1082 01:08:56.319 --> 01:08:59.920 And she swore it wasn't her. But I don't know. 1083 01:09:00.079 --> 01:09:02.520 I was just one of those guys that believed that 1084 01:09:02.760 --> 01:09:04.880 we were the good guys, and if we're the good guys, 1085 01:09:04.920 --> 01:09:06.840 then we have to act like the good guys. If 1086 01:09:06.920 --> 01:09:10.079 you want to be for torture, you can be for torture, 1087 01:09:10.319 --> 01:09:12.680 but you have to change the law. You can't just 1088 01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:16.000 pretend that the law doesn't exist, or that because you're 1089 01:09:16.039 --> 01:09:19.239 the good guy, it doesn't exist for you, that nobody 1090 01:09:19.279 --> 01:09:22.880 else can torture but you can. And so I said, no, 1091 01:09:23.119 --> 01:09:25.039 enough is enough, And I said something. 1092 01:09:28.600 --> 01:09:31.960 I've heard you and many others, and I think it 1093 01:09:32.039 --> 01:09:33.720 was you. I don't want to misquote if it wasn't you. 1094 01:09:33.840 --> 01:09:36.760 But this is often said that, you know, when people say, well, 1095 01:09:36.920 --> 01:09:38.800 what is esponas what are we doing in all these 1096 01:09:38.840 --> 01:09:41.119 other countries, and the answer is usually given something like 1097 01:09:41.760 --> 01:09:48.279 we are doing illegal activities in other countries legally or 1098 01:09:48.359 --> 01:09:50.800 something like that. Yeah, how do you how do you 1099 01:09:51.119 --> 01:09:55.520 balance as you're say, being trained and going into this 1100 01:09:55.760 --> 01:10:00.279 world the idea on the one hand that there's all 1101 01:10:00.319 --> 01:10:03.359 these legalities, which you mentioned quite often in interviews. You mentioned, 1102 01:10:03.399 --> 01:10:05.840 for example, Tucker that you know certain people in the 1103 01:10:05.960 --> 01:10:09.560 agency couldn't have public support for this or that candidate 1104 01:10:09.640 --> 01:10:12.880 Bob Dole or whoever. But at the same time, we've 1105 01:10:12.960 --> 01:10:15.760 got this situation where we've got to go in other 1106 01:10:15.840 --> 01:10:19.239 countries and do illegal things under the cover of legality. 1107 01:10:20.079 --> 01:10:22.760 How do you balance that as you're going through that 1108 01:10:22.960 --> 01:10:25.560 and then make the sort of conscious decision to say, well, 1109 01:10:25.560 --> 01:10:29.000 in this case, now the torture program is I'm not 1110 01:10:29.159 --> 01:10:31.279 defending it. I'm just saying, like, I'm curious as to 1111 01:10:31.399 --> 01:10:33.680 your process as you're working through these issues. 1112 01:10:36.239 --> 01:10:40.520 You go into a job like that really believing that 1113 01:10:40.640 --> 01:10:44.560 you're the good guys. You really believe it, and you 1114 01:10:44.800 --> 01:10:47.920 understand from your very first day that your job is 1115 01:10:48.039 --> 01:10:52.560 to break the laws of foreign countries, not to break 1116 01:10:52.600 --> 01:10:56.079 the laws of the United States. That is forbidden. I 1117 01:10:56.199 --> 01:11:01.560 remember my one of my early bosses telling me, don't 1118 01:11:01.600 --> 01:11:06.239 ever lie to finance, medical, or security. They can ruin 1119 01:11:06.319 --> 01:11:11.760 your life. Don't ever lie to a judge. And he said, 1120 01:11:12.000 --> 01:11:15.279 and don't ever lie to me. Everybody else you can 1121 01:11:15.359 --> 01:11:18.920 lie to everybody's lying all day long. You know the 1122 01:11:19.399 --> 01:11:22.199 old cliche, how do you know when a CIA officer 1123 01:11:22.359 --> 01:11:28.600 is lying, his lips are moving. So yeah, I believe that. 1124 01:11:28.960 --> 01:11:32.760 You know, we go overseas and we lie, we commit espionage, 1125 01:11:32.840 --> 01:11:35.640 We convince other people to commit espionage or to convince 1126 01:11:35.720 --> 01:11:38.640 it to commit treason for us, because we're the good guys. 1127 01:11:40.039 --> 01:11:43.880 But then when we're violating the Federal Torture Act of 1128 01:11:44.000 --> 01:11:48.720 nineteen forty six, when re violating the United Nations Convention 1129 01:11:48.840 --> 01:11:53.520 against Torture, which we wrote and has the force of 1130 01:11:53.600 --> 01:11:57.239 law because it was ratified by the United States Senate. 1131 01:11:58.399 --> 01:12:01.600 Nobody ever said we could violate the law in the 1132 01:12:01.720 --> 01:12:06.079 United States. You know, if I go overseas I'm going 1133 01:12:06.159 --> 01:12:10.039 to use nineteen forty nine as an example. If I 1134 01:12:10.199 --> 01:12:13.520 go overseas and I receive a cable saying, hey, listen, 1135 01:12:14.479 --> 01:12:17.319 the polls say that the Communists are going to win 1136 01:12:17.399 --> 01:12:21.319 the Italian election. So steal the election for the Conservatives. 1137 01:12:21.479 --> 01:12:24.960 I'd say, okay, And then I spend one hundred and 1138 01:12:24.960 --> 01:12:29.840 fifty thousand dollars recruiting journalists and planting stories, and then 1139 01:12:30.079 --> 01:12:34.279 what do you know, the Communists lose. Well, I would 1140 01:12:34.439 --> 01:12:37.039 sleep very well that night because I'm the good guy 1141 01:12:37.279 --> 01:12:40.399 and the Communists are the bad guys. And so I 1142 01:12:40.600 --> 01:12:43.000 did what my job is. But if the order is 1143 01:12:43.159 --> 01:12:48.680 to overthrow the American government or to influence an American 1144 01:12:48.760 --> 01:12:57.520 election or torture someone in violation of American law, absolutely never, never, 1145 01:12:58.920 --> 01:13:01.520 because then we're not the good guy anymore. Like did 1146 01:13:01.560 --> 01:13:04.640 we learn nothing over the course of all these decades? 1147 01:13:04.680 --> 01:13:08.760 Did we learn nothing from Watergate? For example? Nothing from 1148 01:13:08.840 --> 01:13:13.279 Iran Contra? So you got to put your foot down. 1149 01:13:14.640 --> 01:13:19.319 You know, you often hear from establishment types when this 1150 01:13:19.479 --> 01:13:22.279 topic is brought up. Well, if we don't, they will. 1151 01:13:22.840 --> 01:13:26.000 I remember reading, right, I remember reading decades ago, or 1152 01:13:26.119 --> 01:13:28.000 excuse me, a book written decades ago. I think it 1153 01:13:28.079 --> 01:13:31.359 was John Marx's book about the Mentoring Candidate and MK Ultra, 1154 01:13:31.920 --> 01:13:33.600 and the argument was made at that time, if we 1155 01:13:33.720 --> 01:13:37.840 do not engage in these testing experimentation projects, the Soviets will. 1156 01:13:38.279 --> 01:13:41.079 If we don't do this, they will do you find 1157 01:13:41.119 --> 01:13:43.560 that to be a flimsy justification and why. 1158 01:13:44.000 --> 01:13:47.119 Yeah, that's flimsy. Oh my god. Where should we even 1159 01:13:47.199 --> 01:13:52.119 start with MK Ultra and the sub the sub operations 1160 01:13:52.159 --> 01:13:56.079 of MK Ultra, MK Chickwit and MK whatever it was 1161 01:13:56.119 --> 01:13:58.279 called night Rider or whatever it was called. I can't remember. 1162 01:13:58.319 --> 01:14:03.319 There were like six of them. Imagine being in a 1163 01:14:03.399 --> 01:14:07.760 meeting at the CIA and say, listen, there's this scientist 1164 01:14:08.439 --> 01:14:12.960 in Switzerland and he just developed this thing called LSD 1165 01:14:13.720 --> 01:14:18.680 and it does crazy shit. And we've heard that the 1166 01:14:18.800 --> 01:14:26.640 Russians are developing expertise in mind control and ESP and 1167 01:14:26.800 --> 01:14:31.239 what they called remote viewing and all this silliness that 1168 01:14:31.359 --> 01:14:33.560 never came to pass. So we got to do the 1169 01:14:33.600 --> 01:14:35.439 same thing. Because the Russians are doing it. In fact, 1170 01:14:35.439 --> 01:14:38.039 the Russians weren't doing it. The Chinese were doing it, 1171 01:14:38.960 --> 01:14:40.960 but we didn't have sources in China at the time. 1172 01:14:42.439 --> 01:14:47.399 So you're in this meeting and a determination is made 1173 01:14:47.439 --> 01:14:48.079 that yes. 1174 01:14:48.159 --> 01:14:48.920 We're going to do this. 1175 01:14:49.000 --> 01:14:52.600 We're going to call it MK Ultra. And what we're 1176 01:14:52.600 --> 01:14:55.600 going to do is we're going to experiment on American 1177 01:14:55.720 --> 01:14:58.960 citizens and we're never going to tell them we're experimenting 1178 01:14:59.039 --> 01:15:03.600 on them. Better yet, let's start by experimenting on our 1179 01:15:03.720 --> 01:15:09.560 own employees. And so they start dosing their own CIA 1180 01:15:09.640 --> 01:15:13.079 employees with LSD. People are jumping out of windows and 1181 01:15:13.199 --> 01:15:15.640 off of balconies, and they're like, oh, no, we shouldn't 1182 01:15:15.680 --> 01:15:17.880 do it on our own people. Let's just do it 1183 01:15:18.000 --> 01:15:22.239 in let's say San Francisco. And then they go to 1184 01:15:22.279 --> 01:15:25.159 San Francisco and they did a whole bunch of horrible 1185 01:15:25.239 --> 01:15:31.439 illegal shit in San Francisco, things like they recruited an 1186 01:15:31.640 --> 01:15:35.479 army of prostitutes, and they set up a safe house 1187 01:15:35.520 --> 01:15:38.760 in San Francisco and they said, go out and pick 1188 01:15:38.880 --> 01:15:41.239 up a date, bring him back to the safe house. 1189 01:15:41.319 --> 01:15:43.960 We're going to dose them with LSD and then we're 1190 01:15:44.000 --> 01:15:46.560 going to see if he'll give us his most deeply 1191 01:15:46.720 --> 01:15:52.079 held secrets under the LSD. All it did was it 1192 01:15:52.199 --> 01:15:55.880 just made people crazy. Then they said, you know what, 1193 01:15:56.039 --> 01:15:58.880 maybe we should do something different. We should develop a germ. 1194 01:16:00.159 --> 01:16:02.399 Develop a germ and will just release it into the 1195 01:16:02.520 --> 01:16:05.720 air and see if it makes people sick. So they 1196 01:16:05.800 --> 01:16:11.600 developed this germ. They waited until an unusually foggy day 1197 01:16:12.239 --> 01:16:16.680 in San Francisco, and then they just drive around town 1198 01:16:17.720 --> 01:16:22.600 in these pickup trucks with pipes, releasing the germ into 1199 01:16:22.680 --> 01:16:27.359 the fog. They knew it was successful when a week later, 1200 01:16:27.600 --> 01:16:31.399 eleven people had gone to hospital emergency rooms with this 1201 01:16:31.720 --> 01:16:38.239 really rare upper respiratory infection that we coused. Then they 1202 01:16:38.319 --> 01:16:43.079 decided what it would be like. They wanted to know 1203 01:16:43.159 --> 01:16:45.439 what it would be like if they could make like 1204 01:16:45.640 --> 01:16:51.560 everybody in a town crazy, And so they put LSD 1205 01:16:52.880 --> 01:16:58.680 in the flower that was supplied to the only bakery 1206 01:16:58.920 --> 01:17:02.680 in a little village in France. The hapless baker, who 1207 01:17:02.720 --> 01:17:06.000 had no idea that the flower was full of LSD, 1208 01:17:06.840 --> 01:17:10.119 made bread that day like he did every day, sold 1209 01:17:10.159 --> 01:17:12.159 the bread to everybody in the village. Everybody in the 1210 01:17:12.239 --> 01:17:15.119 village went nuts. There's even a Wikipedia page about this 1211 01:17:19.520 --> 01:17:22.760 that's the CIA. All of that was illegal. Now, this 1212 01:17:22.960 --> 01:17:27.159 was also very very secret, top secret until nineteen seventy five. 1213 01:17:28.680 --> 01:17:32.319 The Church Committee on Capitol Hill, the Church Committee on 1214 01:17:32.319 --> 01:17:34.439 the Senate side, and the Pike Committee on the House side, 1215 01:17:34.720 --> 01:17:38.479 developed this information and they called the CIA's leadership to 1216 01:17:38.560 --> 01:17:41.560 come and testify under oath in public hearings. M k 1217 01:17:41.720 --> 01:17:46.359 Ultra was outed, and the Director of Central Intelligence, Dick Helms, 1218 01:17:46.479 --> 01:17:52.960 Richard Helmes, was specifically told by Senator Church, don't destroy 1219 01:17:53.399 --> 01:17:58.119 the documents. He went back to the agency and told 1220 01:17:58.199 --> 01:18:03.920 them destroy all the doc documents. They destroyed eighty five 1221 01:18:04.119 --> 01:18:06.800 percent of the documents on mk ULTRA. So what we 1222 01:18:06.960 --> 01:18:09.399 know today about m k Eltra comes from the fifteen 1223 01:18:09.479 --> 01:18:14.039 percent of the documents that survived the giant, you know, destruction. 1224 01:18:15.199 --> 01:18:17.079 And that's why we don't have answers to so many 1225 01:18:17.119 --> 01:18:20.199 of these questions. Dick Helms was held in contempt of 1226 01:18:20.279 --> 01:18:23.640 Congress and he was fined a few hundred dollars. And 1227 01:18:23.720 --> 01:18:27.279 then when he got back to the agency after having 1228 01:18:27.359 --> 01:18:32.119 taken a plea and having been fined, there was a 1229 01:18:32.479 --> 01:18:37.760 parade of CIA employees standing in the hallway leading to 1230 01:18:37.840 --> 01:18:42.520 his office, each one throwing in cash into a hat 1231 01:18:43.039 --> 01:18:46.960 to pay his fine. They all looked out for each other. 1232 01:18:47.520 --> 01:18:50.760 Yeah, it seems like, I mean, I don't want to 1233 01:18:50.800 --> 01:18:53.720 say strictly speakin of cult, but somebody will have written 1234 01:18:53.720 --> 01:18:56.199 about it as if it's the quote cult of Intelligence, 1235 01:18:56.239 --> 01:18:59.439 I guess the Victor Marquetti book or maybe somebody else, 1236 01:18:59.520 --> 01:19:03.239 but the idea being then that you know, you're sort 1237 01:19:03.279 --> 01:19:06.159 of bound to almost like a kind of a quasi 1238 01:19:06.279 --> 01:19:13.640 secret society. Perhaps maybe that's an exaggeration, but yeah, briefly 1239 01:19:13.680 --> 01:19:15.800 a little detour here because I want to I have 1240 01:19:15.920 --> 01:19:17.760 not heard you. You probably have comment that I just 1241 01:19:17.800 --> 01:19:20.680 haven't heard it yet. You know, lately the government is 1242 01:19:21.239 --> 01:19:25.000 seeming to give a nod at many levels to so 1243 01:19:25.159 --> 01:19:28.439 called aliens and UFOs. I personally do not believe in aliens, 1244 01:19:28.479 --> 01:19:31.800 but we do have a lot of bizarre stories and 1245 01:19:31.920 --> 01:19:36.199 instances and advanced technology that seems to perhaps mirror mimic 1246 01:19:36.359 --> 01:19:39.960 some of these UFO phenomena. I'm curious at what you 1247 01:19:40.039 --> 01:19:43.239 think about that, because when I hear about aliens and 1248 01:19:43.319 --> 01:19:46.479 UFOs and these stories, there could be something speritial going on, 1249 01:19:46.600 --> 01:19:48.680 for sure, but it also reminds me of what happens 1250 01:19:48.720 --> 01:19:51.600 if you have a bad LSD trip. So yeah, And 1251 01:19:52.359 --> 01:19:55.039 on that topic of mk Ultra, it makes me wonder 1252 01:19:55.159 --> 01:19:58.199 if you know, there couldn't be And I think there's 1253 01:19:58.239 --> 01:20:02.439 definitely a you know, a deep state component to the 1254 01:20:03.199 --> 01:20:07.439 UFO alien phenomenon, but also specifically in the descriptions of 1255 01:20:07.520 --> 01:20:10.279 what people go through and how they describe these experiences. 1256 01:20:10.960 --> 01:20:13.800 Do you think that there's any likelihood that this is 1257 01:20:13.920 --> 01:20:19.479 sort of a propagated, intentional perhaps mythology or idea that's 1258 01:20:19.520 --> 01:20:22.800 being seated or planted that we are now under some 1259 01:20:22.920 --> 01:20:25.159 sort of a you know, alien attack. Maybe you think 1260 01:20:25.199 --> 01:20:27.479 that the phenomena is real. I don't know your view. 1261 01:20:28.600 --> 01:20:31.159 Could there be an mk Ultra I know it's defunct, 1262 01:20:31.279 --> 01:20:34.840 but something akin to that that overlaps with the UFO 1263 01:20:34.880 --> 01:20:35.640 alien phenomenon. 1264 01:20:36.600 --> 01:20:40.359 Oh, it's absolutely possible. You know. I have to admit 1265 01:20:40.439 --> 01:20:47.079 I'm of two minds on this issue. On the one hand, 1266 01:20:47.199 --> 01:20:52.159 I long believed that these sightings that people have are 1267 01:20:52.279 --> 01:20:56.479 largely explainable, and when they're not explainable, there's I think 1268 01:20:56.560 --> 01:21:02.279 a likelihood that it's some kind of experimental technology. You know, 1269 01:21:02.439 --> 01:21:05.439 DARPA is working twenty years ahead of everybody else, and 1270 01:21:07.079 --> 01:21:11.079 it's probably some top secret you know thing. On my 1271 01:21:11.239 --> 01:21:13.399 very first day at the CIA, I had lunch with 1272 01:21:13.520 --> 01:21:17.880 my new boss and I said, half jokingly, so where 1273 01:21:17.880 --> 01:21:20.880 are the aliens? And he laughed and he said that 1274 01:21:21.279 --> 01:21:25.039 is the first question that every single one of us 1275 01:21:25.159 --> 01:21:28.359 has on his first day. And I said, so, what's 1276 01:21:28.439 --> 01:21:31.199 the answer. And he said, we don't do any of 1277 01:21:31.279 --> 01:21:33.680 that stuff. It's all at the Pentagon. He said, I 1278 01:21:33.760 --> 01:21:37.640 have no idea what they are where they are. Nobody 1279 01:21:37.720 --> 01:21:44.159 here does. It's all at the Pentagon. With that said, 1280 01:21:46.199 --> 01:21:50.279 I've told this story before, but I'll repeat it. When 1281 01:21:50.319 --> 01:21:52.119 I was in high school, my mom and dad bought 1282 01:21:52.159 --> 01:21:56.720 a restaurant in Sharon, Pennsylvania. We lived in Newcastle, Pennsylvania, 1283 01:21:57.439 --> 01:22:00.720 so they're about fifteen miles apart. And to go from 1284 01:22:00.760 --> 01:22:03.560 Newcastle to Sharon you have to go through Amish Country, 1285 01:22:04.079 --> 01:22:08.279 and the Amish don't use electricity, so it's very, very dark. 1286 01:22:09.840 --> 01:22:12.680 One Friday night, my dad and I left the house 1287 01:22:12.840 --> 01:22:15.359 because we were working midnight shift. We always work midnight 1288 01:22:15.399 --> 01:22:21.119 shift on Fridays and Saturdays. And we're driving through Amish 1289 01:22:21.159 --> 01:22:25.560 Country and there is this brilliant, like blinding flash of 1290 01:22:25.640 --> 01:22:28.399 white light, and then there's a second flash, and then 1291 01:22:28.439 --> 01:22:32.520 a third flash. And we're both looking up at this thing, 1292 01:22:32.640 --> 01:22:38.239 like what is that? And then this orange trapezoid lights 1293 01:22:38.319 --> 01:22:41.880 up and it's just hovering about fifteen hundred feet off 1294 01:22:41.920 --> 01:22:44.399 the ground in the shape of, I hate to say it, 1295 01:22:44.600 --> 01:22:48.319 in the shape of a saucer. And I said, what 1296 01:22:48.960 --> 01:22:52.039 is that? My dad pulls the car over, we get 1297 01:22:52.079 --> 01:22:55.000 out of the car. We're standing there staring at this thing. 1298 01:22:56.199 --> 01:22:58.439 A guy pulls up behind us, gets out of his 1299 01:22:58.520 --> 01:23:01.800 car and he goes, what is that? And my dad said, 1300 01:23:01.920 --> 01:23:07.159 I don't know, And then it goes at this fantastic 1301 01:23:07.279 --> 01:23:13.560 speed that just defies defied the laws of physics, never 1302 01:23:13.680 --> 01:23:18.000 made any sound. We stood there for at least another 1303 01:23:18.119 --> 01:23:21.560 thirty seconds, thinking is it going to come back or what? 1304 01:23:21.840 --> 01:23:25.640 I don't know. So we get back in the car 1305 01:23:26.880 --> 01:23:30.119 and I said to him, mind you, I was seventeen 1306 01:23:30.159 --> 01:23:32.680 at the time, so I didn't know any better. I said, so, 1307 01:23:32.840 --> 01:23:36.720 should we like call somebody, should we call the cops 1308 01:23:36.840 --> 01:23:41.800 or something? And he said, and say, what we saw 1309 01:23:41.800 --> 01:23:45.159 a flying saucer and it flew away. He said, people 1310 01:23:45.159 --> 01:23:47.680 are going to think we're insane. And so the only 1311 01:23:47.760 --> 01:23:51.439 person I told was my mom The next day, well 1312 01:23:51.760 --> 01:23:55.279 years later, like not years later, A couple of years later, 1313 01:23:56.279 --> 01:23:58.479 I come to school here in Washington. I had a 1314 01:23:58.560 --> 01:24:03.279 cousin who was an fifteen pilot, and I always looked 1315 01:24:03.359 --> 01:24:04.600 up to him because he was older than me, and 1316 01:24:04.840 --> 01:24:07.680 you know, he's a pilot and he's so cool. And 1317 01:24:08.880 --> 01:24:11.920 I said to him, hey, listen, my dad and I 1318 01:24:12.000 --> 01:24:13.960 saw this crazy thing once a couple of years ago, 1319 01:24:14.000 --> 01:24:17.479 and I told him and he said, oh, listen, he said, 1320 01:24:18.000 --> 01:24:21.199 every one of us at the Air Force, he said, 1321 01:24:21.279 --> 01:24:23.279 we all see shit like that all the time. And 1322 01:24:23.399 --> 01:24:26.119 sometimes they come up out of the water off the 1323 01:24:26.199 --> 01:24:30.199 coast of Norfolk. I said, what are they? He said, 1324 01:24:30.439 --> 01:24:32.640 I don't know, he said, but they very well could 1325 01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:36.199 be ours. It's just that, he said, I'm not cleared 1326 01:24:36.319 --> 01:24:38.159 to know what it is. I don't know what the 1327 01:24:38.199 --> 01:24:39.920 heck it is. I said, well, what do you do 1328 01:24:39.960 --> 01:24:41.880 when you see something like that? He said, We fill 1329 01:24:41.920 --> 01:24:44.760 out a form, we send it to the Pentagon, and 1330 01:24:44.880 --> 01:24:49.119 nobody ever hears about it again. So I don't know. 1331 01:24:49.439 --> 01:24:52.600 I've never seen, you know, little Green Man or anything 1332 01:24:52.720 --> 01:24:58.239 like that. I wondered too, if, on the one hand, 1333 01:24:59.560 --> 01:25:02.640 I lean in the direction of some kind of futuristic 1334 01:25:02.720 --> 01:25:08.319 advanced technology, right that's being experimented with. On the other hand, 1335 01:25:08.479 --> 01:25:14.560 I wonder if, let's say it is something extra terrestrial, 1336 01:25:15.239 --> 01:25:18.920 the government all these years hasn't wanted to panic us. Okay, 1337 01:25:19.039 --> 01:25:21.439 well guess what now. All this video has been leaked 1338 01:25:21.479 --> 01:25:24.880 from the Pentagon over the last five years and nobody cares, 1339 01:25:25.079 --> 01:25:27.479 and there hasn't been any panic, So why not just 1340 01:25:27.560 --> 01:25:29.279 come out with it now and tell us what it is? 1341 01:25:32.000 --> 01:25:38.399 Yeah? Interesting? Yeah, I feel very very similarly about that topic. 1342 01:25:39.119 --> 01:25:40.720 I do want to shiftgres a little bit because there's 1343 01:25:40.720 --> 01:25:43.000 so many hot topics. I do want your take on 1344 01:25:43.359 --> 01:25:45.680 a lot of them are Unfortunately, I know this is selfish, 1345 01:25:45.760 --> 01:25:48.359 but kind of my pet thoughts, and that's why I 1346 01:25:48.399 --> 01:25:51.560 want to bounce my theories and my thoughts off of you. 1347 01:25:52.199 --> 01:25:56.039 Gordon Thomas wrote a fascinating book about Masade called Gideon 1348 01:25:56.079 --> 01:26:00.720 Spies many years ago, who's a journalist, and several chapters 1349 01:26:00.800 --> 01:26:06.199 are related to the Vatican and the Cold War and 1350 01:26:06.239 --> 01:26:08.680 the Particularly the chapter on John Paul the Second was 1351 01:26:08.760 --> 01:26:12.520 interesting because there were significant advancements that Israel was able 1352 01:26:12.560 --> 01:26:15.680 to achieve in terms of recognition and influence through John 1353 01:26:15.720 --> 01:26:18.119 Paul the Second. On record, I don't think that's anything 1354 01:26:18.159 --> 01:26:21.720 too controversial. There's a chapter he discussed, for example, the 1355 01:26:21.840 --> 01:26:25.279 Vatican becoming hip to the Masaude wanting to and trying 1356 01:26:25.319 --> 01:26:30.159 to bug the Vatican. And then I noticed, you know, 1357 01:26:30.560 --> 01:26:32.279 it's if you look at the dates. Not too long 1358 01:26:32.359 --> 01:26:35.319 after that, John Paul the Second did recognize the nation 1359 01:26:35.439 --> 01:26:38.199 state of Israel as a political entity, which the Vatican 1360 01:26:38.279 --> 01:26:40.960 had not done for many decades, and that to me 1361 01:26:41.079 --> 01:26:45.840 is a window into the possibility of a backdoor connection 1362 01:26:46.000 --> 01:26:51.239 or influence there. That might be pretty significant geopolitically speaking, 1363 01:26:51.359 --> 01:26:54.600 because you do have the Roman Catholic Church taking some 1364 01:26:54.680 --> 01:26:58.359 pretty significant advances in terms of changing their attitudes towards 1365 01:26:59.079 --> 01:27:01.920 the Nation sid of Israel, rebidding Judaism in the last 1366 01:27:01.920 --> 01:27:06.000 several decades post Vatican too. I'm curious to what degree 1367 01:27:06.119 --> 01:27:09.119 do you think that is a window into a a 1368 01:27:09.600 --> 01:27:13.239 influenced campaign. Is it significant? Do you think that's plausible? 1369 01:27:13.840 --> 01:27:17.680 And also, uh, there also seems to be significant admissions 1370 01:27:17.720 --> 01:27:19.760 in that book and other books as well related to 1371 01:27:19.800 --> 01:27:23.159 Gladio that the CIA had a really close connection and 1372 01:27:23.279 --> 01:27:27.439 perhaps even more than a connection, perhaps people on the 1373 01:27:27.479 --> 01:27:30.840 hook to what the CIA wanted throughout the Cold War 1374 01:27:30.880 --> 01:27:33.960 in regards to the Vatican. Yeah, was that a trap 1375 01:27:34.159 --> 01:27:38.880 to basically sort of have soft power influence through the Vatican. 1376 01:27:39.319 --> 01:27:43.319 Yeah, it was, it was. That was always my understanding. Yes, 1377 01:27:43.960 --> 01:27:46.279 there were old timers at the at the Agency when 1378 01:27:46.279 --> 01:27:48.960 I first joined who took credit for making John Paul 1379 01:27:49.000 --> 01:27:51.119 the second Pope that. 1380 01:27:51.439 --> 01:27:52.239 This was what I've heard. 1381 01:27:52.319 --> 01:27:55.439 Yeah, yeah, this was a political decision from the very beginning. 1382 01:27:56.720 --> 01:27:59.800 It was done to weaken the Soviet Union. They knew 1383 01:27:59.880 --> 01:28:03.560 that at having a pope from from Poland, which was 1384 01:28:03.600 --> 01:28:05.479 a Soviet satellite state at the time. 1385 01:28:06.000 --> 01:28:06.479 Would. 1386 01:28:07.880 --> 01:28:13.359 Would reap untold benefits because it would distract the Soviets. 1387 01:28:13.840 --> 01:28:17.720 And then at exactly the same time, the Solidarity movement 1388 01:28:17.800 --> 01:28:22.199 took root in beginning in the Gadansk shipyard in Poland. 1389 01:28:22.840 --> 01:28:27.239 And so there was no downside for the West to 1390 01:28:27.520 --> 01:28:30.119 John Paul being pope. If anything, this was like a 1391 01:28:30.239 --> 01:28:34.399 gift and uh and and the recognition of israel I 1392 01:28:34.560 --> 01:28:37.399 remember how controversial that was at the time. That was 1393 01:28:37.680 --> 01:28:41.039 that was just like an extra added freebie, you know 1394 01:28:41.239 --> 01:28:43.920 that that we got on top of everything that we 1395 01:28:44.039 --> 01:28:46.960 got with the Soviets. So yeah, I think I think 1396 01:28:47.000 --> 01:28:50.720 that that was the case. John Paul, go ahead, I'm sorry, 1397 01:28:50.720 --> 01:28:51.319 go ahead, I. 1398 01:28:51.399 --> 01:28:52.680 Was just going to say, I remember, you know, a 1399 01:28:52.720 --> 01:28:54.560 lot of the text will point to, you know, a 1400 01:28:54.640 --> 01:28:58.279 pretty close relationship with Henry Kissinger, even going back to 1401 01:28:58.359 --> 01:29:00.720 Paul the Six having a very close religion there, as 1402 01:29:00.760 --> 01:29:04.800 well as William Casey. I think that you had this 1403 01:29:05.039 --> 01:29:08.319 period where they were pretty hardcore traditional Catholic people in 1404 01:29:08.359 --> 01:29:11.439 the CIA, like Casey and others known as Templars, that 1405 01:29:11.560 --> 01:29:15.239 were very committed to to you know, that that alliance. 1406 01:29:15.399 --> 01:29:17.640 And I just I suspect and I wonder. I know 1407 01:29:17.760 --> 01:29:24.199 that Leo has has opposed you know, Trump in recent months. 1408 01:29:25.119 --> 01:29:27.479 And then there was this meeting where Cardinal Christoph back 1409 01:29:27.520 --> 01:29:30.720 in January, was at you know, the White House, and 1410 01:29:30.800 --> 01:29:33.319 there was these tense words supposedly said, and there's this 1411 01:29:33.920 --> 01:29:37.720 story that they reminded Cardinal Christophe and Leo of the 1412 01:29:37.880 --> 01:29:40.359 Avigne and papacy and the power that the state can have. 1413 01:29:40.560 --> 01:29:42.319 And I'm just to me, I just thought that was 1414 01:29:42.359 --> 01:29:45.920 a fascinating window into perhaps what's going on with not 1415 01:29:46.079 --> 01:29:48.119 just the deep State, but the deep Church and perhaps 1416 01:29:48.159 --> 01:29:50.319 an influenza in that structure. 1417 01:29:50.960 --> 01:29:53.319 And you know, there was a book published recently in 1418 01:29:53.359 --> 01:29:55.560 the last i'm gonna say year or two, and I 1419 01:29:56.359 --> 01:30:00.880 apologize that I don't remember the title talking about the 1420 01:30:01.159 --> 01:30:08.199 joint CIA Vatican operation to publish Doctor Javago. 1421 01:30:08.479 --> 01:30:11.079 And to make it Availa, I didn't even know. 1422 01:30:11.119 --> 01:30:14.520 Does you say this, yeah, make it available to Soviet 1423 01:30:14.600 --> 01:30:18.039 citizens at the International Book Fair in Brussels in like 1424 01:30:18.239 --> 01:30:23.439 nineteen seventy one or whatever whatever it was, where you 1425 01:30:23.560 --> 01:30:29.279 had even the KGB minders who had accompanied this delegation 1426 01:30:29.399 --> 01:30:32.760 of Soviet citizens to the International Book Fair themselves were 1427 01:30:32.800 --> 01:30:36.359 bringing copies of Doctor Javago back to the Soviet Union. 1428 01:30:36.920 --> 01:30:39.600 And it's funny. It was a book that that nobody 1429 01:30:39.680 --> 01:30:43.920 really paid any attention to until the Cold War got 1430 01:30:44.079 --> 01:30:47.039 really hot, and then somebody at the CIA said, we've 1431 01:30:47.079 --> 01:30:49.359 got to smuggle this into the Soviet Union. How do 1432 01:30:49.439 --> 01:30:53.600 you do that? Well, we can do it by asking 1433 01:30:53.760 --> 01:30:58.640 the Vatican to do it for us, you know. So 1434 01:30:58.920 --> 01:31:02.920 the Russians were all over the American book tent at 1435 01:31:02.960 --> 01:31:05.640 the International Book Fair, not paying any attention at all 1436 01:31:05.720 --> 01:31:09.640 to the Vatican book tent, And every time a Soviet 1437 01:31:09.720 --> 01:31:12.159 citizen would come to the Vatican tent, they'd say, hey, 1438 01:31:12.239 --> 01:31:13.680 you want to go in the back room. There's a 1439 01:31:13.720 --> 01:31:15.279 back room. You're going to want to go back there, 1440 01:31:15.800 --> 01:31:18.000 And then they had all these copies of Doctor Zevago 1441 01:31:18.199 --> 01:31:21.640 in Russian. It got to the point where people would 1442 01:31:21.680 --> 01:31:24.159 would tear out like ten pages at a time and 1443 01:31:24.359 --> 01:31:27.680 just tape them around their legs and then just you know, 1444 01:31:28.560 --> 01:31:31.199 re enter the Soviet Union with the book taped around 1445 01:31:31.199 --> 01:31:35.000 their legs, ten pages at a time, collate the pages again, 1446 01:31:36.039 --> 01:31:37.880 and then pass it around to their friends. 1447 01:31:39.000 --> 01:31:42.640 Now I know, I think I have an idea as 1448 01:31:42.720 --> 01:31:44.279 to why. And for those that don't know, I did 1449 01:31:44.359 --> 01:31:47.560 write a book and two other books after that, Esoteric Hollywood, 1450 01:31:47.560 --> 01:31:51.800 which largely deals with propaganda in films and in Hollywood 1451 01:31:52.199 --> 01:31:55.199 and in fiction. But for those that might not know 1452 01:31:55.319 --> 01:31:58.600 in the audience, and you've talked about this in many interviews, John, 1453 01:31:58.680 --> 01:32:02.479 which is the interest that the CIA and other entities, Pentagon, 1454 01:32:02.560 --> 01:32:06.960 even military, they have in Hollywood and fiction? Why would 1455 01:32:07.600 --> 01:32:10.279 the CIA care about Doctor Zevaga? What is that going 1456 01:32:10.359 --> 01:32:12.079 to do in the Soviet Union? Who cares about that? 1457 01:32:12.119 --> 01:32:12.840 Why would they do that? 1458 01:32:14.239 --> 01:32:21.640 Yeah, it's it's funny. You you declare victory in small increments, right, 1459 01:32:22.199 --> 01:32:26.159 and so if you are able to get a book 1460 01:32:26.279 --> 01:32:29.880 like Doctor Juvago into the hands of a Soviet citizen 1461 01:32:30.880 --> 01:32:35.359 and maybe make one Soviet citizen question his or her 1462 01:32:35.520 --> 01:32:41.039 own government. That's a successful operation. And so you know, 1463 01:32:41.159 --> 01:32:45.319 you you plan small and hope for the best. And 1464 01:32:45.439 --> 01:32:47.439 that's really what it was, what it was all about. 1465 01:32:48.720 --> 01:32:50.239 Yeah, there's there's a movie. 1466 01:32:50.279 --> 01:32:50.560 I know you. 1467 01:32:50.640 --> 01:32:53.880 I'm sure you're well, well, very familiar with Three Days 1468 01:32:53.880 --> 01:32:57.920 of the Condor. Yeah, and you've got Robert Redford sitting 1469 01:32:58.000 --> 01:33:01.680 in this bookstore and he's basically just reading books and 1470 01:33:01.800 --> 01:33:05.640 looking for things all day long. Is that real or 1471 01:33:05.760 --> 01:33:06.720 is that exaggerated? 1472 01:33:07.279 --> 01:33:11.239 No, that's real. That's real. When I first joined the agency, 1473 01:33:11.479 --> 01:33:15.920 that was called active Measures, So you had an active 1474 01:33:16.000 --> 01:33:19.319 measures branch and then you had anti active measures branches. 1475 01:33:19.720 --> 01:33:23.840 So you're planning American propaganda and then the other branch 1476 01:33:24.039 --> 01:33:26.720 is planning how to come. 1477 01:33:33.880 --> 01:33:38.760 Sorry it's okay, go ahead, can me now? Yeah? 1478 01:33:38.880 --> 01:33:45.039 Sure, yeah, Sorry, for whatever reason, my my microphone switched. 1479 01:33:46.239 --> 01:33:50.199 So yeah, it's it's all about the propaganda, and it's 1480 01:33:50.239 --> 01:33:55.359 all about combating propaganda. It's a twenty four hour a day, 1481 01:33:55.560 --> 01:33:57.800 seven day a week process. 1482 01:33:58.079 --> 01:34:01.399 You know, in films, you know, you watch movies or shows, 1483 01:34:01.640 --> 01:34:04.560 you see something like the Americans and we see back 1484 01:34:04.680 --> 01:34:07.880 during the Cold War, number stations are putting out the 1485 01:34:08.000 --> 01:34:11.560 message codes to the Soviet operatives in the US. And 1486 01:34:11.800 --> 01:34:13.760 if I recall, it's been some years since I watched 1487 01:34:13.800 --> 01:34:16.279 Three Day as the Condor. But Robert Redfords like scanning 1488 01:34:16.359 --> 01:34:21.039 for propaganda. But isn't it also perhaps like messages from 1489 01:34:21.920 --> 01:34:24.720 Soviet operatives to certain cells or something like he's trying 1490 01:34:24.760 --> 01:34:27.399 to see if he can find something. Maybe it's not 1491 01:34:27.560 --> 01:34:30.640 I don't remember. Does that still go on in terms 1492 01:34:30.680 --> 01:34:32.760 of I know there's number stations sort of putting out 1493 01:34:32.800 --> 01:34:36.680 those codes and whatnot. Is that still happening at that 1494 01:34:36.880 --> 01:34:38.600 type of a level. Okay? 1495 01:34:39.560 --> 01:34:41.960 Oh? Yeah, as recently as a week ago. I was 1496 01:34:42.119 --> 01:34:45.039 just I just did a podcast episode of my own 1497 01:34:45.199 --> 01:34:48.319 where I talked to two former CIA colleagues. One was 1498 01:34:48.359 --> 01:34:50.720 a CIA attorney and the other was a was an 1499 01:34:50.760 --> 01:34:54.720 operations off as so anti Soviet operations officer, and we 1500 01:34:54.800 --> 01:34:56.800 were talking about that, and I said, you know, when 1501 01:34:56.800 --> 01:34:59.840 I was nine years old, I've said this before. When 1502 01:34:59.840 --> 01:35:01.439 I'm nine years old, I told my parents I wanted 1503 01:35:01.479 --> 01:35:04.119 to be a spy when I grew up, and they 1504 01:35:04.199 --> 01:35:07.399 bought me walkie talkies and disappearing ink and stuff like 1505 01:35:07.479 --> 01:35:09.840 that for Christmas. When I was sixteen, I told them. 1506 01:35:09.840 --> 01:35:11.439 I wanted to be a spy in the Middle East, 1507 01:35:12.279 --> 01:35:14.319 and I meant it, and I became a spy in 1508 01:35:14.359 --> 01:35:16.840 the Middle East. Well my dad. When I was nine, 1509 01:35:16.920 --> 01:35:19.399 my dad took me to an auction at one of 1510 01:35:19.479 --> 01:35:22.239 these one of these local farms. We lived in a 1511 01:35:22.359 --> 01:35:25.239 very rural area, and at the end of the auction, 1512 01:35:25.520 --> 01:35:27.800 all the junk that didn't sell they just threw into 1513 01:35:27.840 --> 01:35:30.159 one box, and my dad got the box for fifty 1514 01:35:30.239 --> 01:35:35.720 cents and it included a shortwave radio. So that night 1515 01:35:36.880 --> 01:35:40.000 we put some batteries in this thing and I listened 1516 01:35:40.079 --> 01:35:43.960 to an AM station. It was WGN in Chicago, and 1517 01:35:44.000 --> 01:35:47.560 I remember thinking, Wow, I'm in Newcastle, Pennsylvania, and I 1518 01:35:47.600 --> 01:35:49.960 can hear a station in Chicago, because you know, when 1519 01:35:50.000 --> 01:35:54.279 the sun goes down, AM stations go on augmented power, 1520 01:35:54.800 --> 01:35:57.880 and if you're a fifty thousand watt station, you can 1521 01:35:58.000 --> 01:36:01.600 be picked up as much as fifteen hundred miles away. 1522 01:36:02.000 --> 01:36:04.800 So I was getting Chicago and New York and Boston 1523 01:36:04.960 --> 01:36:07.760 and Atlanta and Dallas a couple a couple of times. 1524 01:36:08.520 --> 01:36:12.159 The next night I switched it to shortwave, just to 1525 01:36:12.239 --> 01:36:14.760 see if I can get this on AM. What about 1526 01:36:14.800 --> 01:36:18.680 this shortwave? And I got BBC and Radio Moscow and 1527 01:36:18.840 --> 01:36:22.520 Radio Havana and all different kinds of things. Well, one 1528 01:36:22.560 --> 01:36:25.039 of the things that I heard that night and many 1529 01:36:25.199 --> 01:36:30.000 many nights after that, was just a man's voice saying 1530 01:36:31.119 --> 01:36:34.199 eight three six. 1531 01:36:40.800 --> 01:36:43.079 Are you there? I think we lost you audio wise? 1532 01:36:50.720 --> 01:36:53.039 Can you hear me? Guys in the chat? You can 1533 01:36:53.119 --> 01:36:57.399 hear me right? Maybe we're getting everybody always makes the 1534 01:36:57.399 --> 01:36:59.479 same dumb joke at this point, though, Sue is most 1535 01:36:59.479 --> 01:37:03.039 of them were. I don't know about that, but let 1536 01:37:03.119 --> 01:37:05.079 me see here, make sure I didn't hit the wrong 1537 01:37:05.159 --> 01:37:13.439 button multi it, so John, i've lost Let me try 1538 01:37:13.520 --> 01:37:21.880 to probably just switched to his audio again. Guys, I 1539 01:37:21.920 --> 01:37:23.359 will go ahead and read a couple of super chats 1540 01:37:23.359 --> 01:37:26.000 while he works on that here, and we've got several 1541 01:37:26.159 --> 01:37:29.319 so in the last twenty minutes, maybe it's it's a 1542 01:37:29.359 --> 01:37:31.159 good time to shift over to super chats. You guys 1543 01:37:31.199 --> 01:37:32.760 did ask him a lot of questions, so I'll try 1544 01:37:32.840 --> 01:37:36.680 to make it accessible and quick. We lost him, but 1545 01:37:36.720 --> 01:37:37.560 he'll be right back. 1546 01:37:50.600 --> 01:37:50.720 Now. 1547 01:37:51.520 --> 01:37:52.720 Yes, you're back. Sorry about that. 1548 01:37:53.359 --> 01:37:55.079 I have no idea why that happened. It didn't give 1549 01:37:55.119 --> 01:37:58.359 me any indication that there was something wrong, so real 1550 01:37:58.439 --> 01:38:04.119 quickly then the guys just reading numbers for hours, and 1551 01:38:04.479 --> 01:38:07.479 I'm like, what is this, Well, what it is. It's 1552 01:38:07.560 --> 01:38:11.960 a spy who is doing what he's called. What he's 1553 01:38:12.000 --> 01:38:14.880 doing is called reading from a one time pad. So 1554 01:38:15.000 --> 01:38:19.199 he's reading an encrypted message by giving only the numbers 1555 01:38:19.319 --> 01:38:24.880 associated with the letters that are encrypted, so those numbers 1556 01:38:24.960 --> 01:38:28.039 will change with every message. So I mentioned this on 1557 01:38:28.119 --> 01:38:31.800 the podcast the other day, and the other case officer 1558 01:38:32.319 --> 01:38:37.520 he said, oh, listen, he said, I still listened to shortwave, 1559 01:38:37.880 --> 01:38:41.199 and I can tell you that a week ago I 1560 01:38:41.359 --> 01:38:45.560 heard a guy reciting one time pad numbers. So it's 1561 01:38:45.640 --> 01:38:50.520 some Russian spy somewhere in the United States and he's 1562 01:38:50.560 --> 01:38:54.720 reading from his one time pad. Yeah. 1563 01:38:54.720 --> 01:38:56.479 I remember somebody was talking the other day too about 1564 01:38:56.720 --> 01:38:59.840 there there was a number station down in Miami that's 1565 01:39:00.119 --> 01:39:04.720 like near Cuba that's still you know, spitting out numbers 1566 01:39:04.800 --> 01:39:08.000 codes and for the British have these as well. So 1567 01:39:08.600 --> 01:39:10.399 I'll go ahead and start reading the super chats because 1568 01:39:10.399 --> 01:39:12.600 I know you've only got about twenty minutes left with us. 1569 01:39:12.600 --> 01:39:14.239 So guys, we want to put in your questions for 1570 01:39:14.800 --> 01:39:18.640 John do so now I may have to read the 1571 01:39:18.640 --> 01:39:21.279 super chats that are above five dollars or more, perhaps 1572 01:39:21.319 --> 01:39:24.039 because we've got quite a few coming in. Hush Chown says, Jay, 1573 01:39:24.039 --> 01:39:27.159 you look like Clavicular. You're Jay Vicular good one. Albert 1574 01:39:27.199 --> 01:39:30.399 Smith five dollars, Jay, you've got another sad hair day. Well, 1575 01:39:30.439 --> 01:39:34.880 I didn't want to look too silly talking to John Kiriaku, 1576 01:39:35.119 --> 01:39:38.720 so I just went with I don't know Rob Thomas 1577 01:39:38.800 --> 01:39:42.039 from Mashbox twenty mixed with James Bond, So roll stake 1578 01:39:42.119 --> 01:39:45.880 ten dollars. Jay, you're researching topics, but you're muted. Okay, 1579 01:39:45.920 --> 01:39:48.680 we unmuted Reckon five dollars, bro in case you didn't 1580 01:39:48.760 --> 01:39:53.640 know you're live. I know JML fifteen dollars. Why are 1581 01:39:53.760 --> 01:39:59.319 so many XCIA in US politics? And what about the 1582 01:39:59.359 --> 01:40:02.479 Democratic Party? Say Governor Virginia. Can we trust any of 1583 01:40:02.520 --> 01:40:07.680 these people? John, No, we can't trust answer. 1584 01:40:09.920 --> 01:40:13.000 I'll tell you. I was the mentor to a guy, 1585 01:40:13.319 --> 01:40:16.960 Will Hurd. Will was an awesome case officer, as honest 1586 01:40:17.000 --> 01:40:19.640 as the day is long. Our politics were different, but 1587 01:40:19.760 --> 01:40:23.119 I love the guy, and he told us one day 1588 01:40:23.119 --> 01:40:24.800 he said, listen, I'm going to resign. I was like, 1589 01:40:24.960 --> 01:40:27.880 what I said, Will, You're a natural born case officer. 1590 01:40:27.920 --> 01:40:30.000 Why would you resign? He says, I want to run 1591 01:40:30.079 --> 01:40:33.520 for Congress. I said, run for congress, buddy, I said, 1592 01:40:33.560 --> 01:40:39.840 that's not a step up, it's not well. He resigned 1593 01:40:39.920 --> 01:40:42.439 and he ran for congress. Eddie won. Here's a guy 1594 01:40:42.479 --> 01:40:45.920 who's half black, half white, and he wins three times 1595 01:40:46.359 --> 01:40:51.520 in a Supreme Court mandated majority Hispanic district. That's how 1596 01:40:52.079 --> 01:40:55.279 honest and popular he was. And then he decided, this 1597 01:40:55.439 --> 01:40:59.560 is all bullshit, it's all posturing, no real work gets done. 1598 01:41:00.000 --> 01:41:02.279 I'm going to quit and run for president. He runs 1599 01:41:02.319 --> 01:41:08.239 for president for about fifteen minutes, when a year two 1600 01:41:08.319 --> 01:41:13.399 years ago, he dropped out before the primaries even began. 1601 01:41:14.039 --> 01:41:15.800 And the last I heard, he was on the board 1602 01:41:15.840 --> 01:41:18.920 of directors at Open AI, making millions and millions and 1603 01:41:19.000 --> 01:41:22.039 millions of dollars. So it worked out for him. But 1604 01:41:22.359 --> 01:41:27.039 you know, people like Alyssa Slotkin and Abby Spamberger, it's 1605 01:41:27.079 --> 01:41:30.399 all about the power. Listen, Abby. Even at the agency, Abby, 1606 01:41:31.119 --> 01:41:33.079 Abby was known as somebody who wasn't going to be 1607 01:41:33.319 --> 01:41:37.319 around long because she needed she needed time to win 1608 01:41:37.600 --> 01:41:40.880 election to different offices so that she could run for president. 1609 01:41:41.279 --> 01:41:44.520 That's what that's what it's all about. Melissa Slutkin's exactly 1610 01:41:44.600 --> 01:41:49.159 the same way. The idea is that automatically they're both 1611 01:41:49.279 --> 01:41:54.159 attractive candidates for vice president, and then the next time 1612 01:41:54.199 --> 01:41:57.880 when it's their turn, they run for president. It's all 1613 01:41:57.880 --> 01:41:58.520 about power. 1614 01:41:58.920 --> 01:42:01.560 All that leads me to the last question I had 1615 01:42:01.680 --> 01:42:04.000 for you on my list here as we kind of 1616 01:42:04.000 --> 01:42:07.960 wind down with the super chats, and that is we 1617 01:42:08.159 --> 01:42:10.880 cover quite a bit on my channel the idea of 1618 01:42:11.960 --> 01:42:16.439 high level steering committees, foundations, NGO's thing tanks. They seem 1619 01:42:16.479 --> 01:42:19.640 to have a lot of power. Yeah, Americans look at 1620 01:42:19.680 --> 01:42:22.199 the President, they look at the you know, Congress, they 1621 01:42:22.279 --> 01:42:26.800 look at the Senate, Supreme Court, and certainly those entities 1622 01:42:26.840 --> 01:42:33.119 have power, but it seems like there's certain agendas that 1623 01:42:33.680 --> 01:42:37.319 never change with the politicians that come and go. For example, 1624 01:42:37.880 --> 01:42:40.680 our foreign policy seems to be dictated by Israel for many, 1625 01:42:40.720 --> 01:42:46.000 many decades. Yes, what is the real level of power 1626 01:42:46.199 --> 01:42:50.119 you could say for these types of supra governmental entities, 1627 01:42:50.680 --> 01:42:54.960 these steering committee CFR, trilateral or APAC you know as 1628 01:42:55.000 --> 01:42:58.239 a lobby group, or perhaps beyond that, something beyond apack 1629 01:42:58.319 --> 01:43:02.159 a mega groups, something like that. What's the real power structure? John? 1630 01:43:03.479 --> 01:43:05.880 Oh, They're all part of what we are now calling 1631 01:43:05.960 --> 01:43:10.800 the deep state, all of them CFR is a great example. 1632 01:43:12.640 --> 01:43:19.439 You know, builder Berg is another I someone to whom 1633 01:43:19.640 --> 01:43:22.960 I was once very close. I'll put it that way 1634 01:43:23.479 --> 01:43:25.239 because that's what the divorce court says. 1635 01:43:25.279 --> 01:43:25.800 I have to say. 1636 01:43:26.239 --> 01:43:32.800 Someone to whom I was very close found herself in 1637 01:43:32.880 --> 01:43:37.399 a position where she began attending these meetings, right, And 1638 01:43:37.560 --> 01:43:39.439 I said, you got to tell me what goes on 1639 01:43:39.560 --> 01:43:41.960 in these meetings. What are they talking about? Are they like, 1640 01:43:42.720 --> 01:43:46.479 you know, manipulating global markets and you know, foreign policies 1641 01:43:46.560 --> 01:43:50.479 and stuff. And she said, it's all about weapons sales. 1642 01:43:51.640 --> 01:43:54.880 All of these meetings, whether it's Shangri La or builder 1643 01:43:54.960 --> 01:43:59.199 Berg or any of them, it's all about weapon sales. Yes, 1644 01:43:59.560 --> 01:44:01.920 the built Clinton's and the Bill Gates of the world 1645 01:44:02.039 --> 01:44:05.239 and the you know, prime ministers of this country in 1646 01:44:05.319 --> 01:44:09.600 that country. They're all talking about the big overarching global 1647 01:44:09.840 --> 01:44:13.560 issues and economies and stuff like that. Yes, but at 1648 01:44:13.560 --> 01:44:15.880 the end of the day, it all comes down to 1649 01:44:16.119 --> 01:44:19.800 which defense contractor made what deal at every one of 1650 01:44:19.840 --> 01:44:20.479 these conferences. 1651 01:44:21.159 --> 01:44:23.800 Is that also that would also still overlap with. 1652 01:44:24.079 --> 01:44:26.520 Tech because we heard this absolutely. 1653 01:44:26.680 --> 01:44:29.359 We heard this last Bilderberg meeting on a couple of 1654 01:44:29.399 --> 01:44:35.880 weeks ago. What dominated the supposed talking points were cbdc's 1655 01:44:36.479 --> 01:44:39.279 you know Ai that was the You know it seems 1656 01:44:39.319 --> 01:44:42.840 like Bilderburg the last ten years has really allegedly focused 1657 01:44:42.880 --> 01:44:44.960 on a whole lot of tech stuff. Is that Does 1658 01:44:45.000 --> 01:44:45.960 that fit in with that? 1659 01:44:46.600 --> 01:44:49.600 Absolutely? Yes. Right now it's all about tech, and I 1660 01:44:49.640 --> 01:44:51.239 think it will be even more so in the in 1661 01:44:51.319 --> 01:44:53.560 the future. Yeah, it's all about tech. 1662 01:44:53.880 --> 01:44:56.600 Anonymous as fifty dollars and doesn't say anything, thanks so much. 1663 01:44:56.600 --> 01:44:59.399 Manacre said that, Gabe, do you have any opinions on 1664 01:44:59.439 --> 01:45:02.239 the YouTuber Alpha talks? He has forty k subs and 1665 01:45:02.319 --> 01:45:06.000 talks about Genesis six and in times eschatology. I don't 1666 01:45:06.000 --> 01:45:10.239 typically go into a lot of the evangelical eschatological stuff. 1667 01:45:10.560 --> 01:45:14.560 Poncho twenty dollars off topic for Muslims or people that 1668 01:45:14.600 --> 01:45:17.600 sympathize with Islam. Look up Kuwait and the response to 1669 01:45:18.720 --> 01:45:22.640 Philippine legal challenges after twenty eighteen and the unliving of 1670 01:45:22.800 --> 01:45:28.479 Joanna Dima Felis and the twenty nineteen unaliving of Jenna 1671 01:45:28.680 --> 01:45:32.119 Janelle Villa Vinde. I don't know anything about that, No, 1672 01:45:32.279 --> 01:45:35.000 nor do I. Poncho twenty dollars, Thank you so much, 1673 01:45:35.039 --> 01:45:38.680 Container fifty dollars, Jay, What does John and he did 1674 01:45:38.760 --> 01:45:42.000 mention this earlier. What does John think about SRI and 1675 01:45:42.119 --> 01:45:44.359 CIA programs studying remote viewing? 1676 01:45:46.840 --> 01:45:50.119 For the CIA, remote viewing was a failure. They could 1677 01:45:50.159 --> 01:45:52.199 never figured it out, they could never make it work. 1678 01:45:52.840 --> 01:45:56.560 It was always my understanding. The Russians also failed, the 1679 01:45:56.680 --> 01:45:59.239 Chinese failed. I think it's just not possible. I think 1680 01:45:59.239 --> 01:45:59.880 it's not a thing. 1681 01:46:01.239 --> 01:46:03.800 Hush. That's for ten dollars, John, could you tell us 1682 01:46:03.880 --> 01:46:06.600 what you think about LP de four oh's there was 1683 01:46:06.680 --> 01:46:08.720 a discussion of a phone call. I can't remember the 1684 01:46:08.760 --> 01:46:11.800 original video. What did you think of that? 1685 01:46:15.680 --> 01:46:17.359 See now you're going to put me on the spot. 1686 01:46:17.680 --> 01:46:20.479 Maybe I don't know. If you don't want to say, 1687 01:46:20.479 --> 01:46:21.119 you don't have to say. 1688 01:46:21.840 --> 01:46:26.199 The photos is the archbishop of the Orthodox Church Greek 1689 01:46:26.319 --> 01:46:33.000 Orthodox Church in America. He is widely believed to be 1690 01:46:34.239 --> 01:46:37.000 by far the leading candidate to be the next documentical 1691 01:46:37.079 --> 01:46:42.640 Patriarch of Constantinople. He's young, he's fifty eight years old, 1692 01:46:43.359 --> 01:46:48.279 he's good looking, he's widely respected. He has not been 1693 01:46:48.399 --> 01:46:52.720 kind to me personally. Maybe I should leave it at that, 1694 01:46:54.199 --> 01:46:54.880 fair enough. 1695 01:46:55.439 --> 01:46:57.800 Hush tone twenty dollars, Jay, thank you, here's for the 1696 01:46:58.119 --> 01:47:00.880 supertech goal. Thank you for your work. Saint Louis is 1697 01:47:00.880 --> 01:47:05.239 about to get a new ro Court church. That's great, Hendrick. Apparently, 1698 01:47:05.760 --> 01:47:10.680 Hendrix says for two hundred seks, which is usually twenty cents. 1699 01:47:11.800 --> 01:47:14.439 Anytime you see some weird foreign currencies, it's like translate, 1700 01:47:14.479 --> 01:47:18.199 it's like a twenty thousand CCPs and it translates to 1701 01:47:18.279 --> 01:47:24.199 like thirty. Hendrick says, Olof Palma, of the Swedish prime minister. 1702 01:47:24.279 --> 01:47:28.479 He's a Swedish prime mission. In nineteen eighties, assassinate was assassinated, 1703 01:47:28.560 --> 01:47:32.279 probably by a Gladio cell. There was a ci operation 1704 01:47:32.399 --> 01:47:38.319 called Red Sox where they had tiny mustache men followers 1705 01:47:38.479 --> 01:47:41.920 in the Ukraine and this was part of the Midon coup. Interesting, 1706 01:47:41.960 --> 01:47:42.680 I had not heard. 1707 01:47:42.560 --> 01:47:46.319 That that all of Palma's assassination was part of the 1708 01:47:46.399 --> 01:47:47.000 Maidan coup. 1709 01:47:47.760 --> 01:47:50.800 But he's saying that there's a cell that is similar 1710 01:47:50.920 --> 01:47:55.119 to that group that was he's saying as a Gladio 1711 01:47:55.279 --> 01:47:59.640 cell that in the Ukraine was called Red Sox, which 1712 01:48:00.279 --> 01:48:02.640 lead which helped with the mydonku is what he's saying. 1713 01:48:04.399 --> 01:48:07.399 I always heard that. I have no idea. I always 1714 01:48:07.439 --> 01:48:11.439 heard that Palma was killed by a curd, but the 1715 01:48:11.560 --> 01:48:14.039 curd was ended. He ended up being convicted and then 1716 01:48:14.600 --> 01:48:17.840 and then on appeal the conviction was overturned, he was 1717 01:48:17.920 --> 01:48:21.800 released and they never conclusively solve that murder. 1718 01:48:26.399 --> 01:48:29.600 Mountain Walk ten dollars. Jay asked, John, does he gloat 1719 01:48:29.640 --> 01:48:31.880 in the dark. Well, he's a whistleblower, so if that's 1720 01:48:31.920 --> 01:48:35.920 what you're referring to, container we already asked him about 1721 01:48:35.920 --> 01:48:42.199 remote viewing. Mountain Walk did not ask about bioluminescence. I'm 1722 01:48:42.199 --> 01:48:45.039 restricting it to super jets over ten twenty dollars, so 1723 01:48:45.760 --> 01:48:49.039 Eugene five dollars. This is actually the best geopolitical content 1724 01:48:49.479 --> 01:48:52.479 in this sphere, hands down. Well, thank you, I appreciate 1725 01:48:52.479 --> 01:48:56.680 that wonderful slow boy whiteboard. Twenty dollars. Guys helped Jay 1726 01:48:56.720 --> 01:48:59.920 get to the goal. Also subscribed to John absolutely. His 1727 01:49:00.359 --> 01:49:02.920 channel is linked in the show description and I will 1728 01:49:02.960 --> 01:49:03.800 link him in the title. 1729 01:49:05.119 --> 01:49:09.439 And this is not a formal announcement yet, but we 1730 01:49:09.560 --> 01:49:13.399 are winding down my deep focused podcast and we're going 1731 01:49:13.479 --> 01:49:18.399 to start anew in two weeks on YouTube under real 1732 01:49:18.479 --> 01:49:22.920 John Kiriaku. It's going to be called John Kiriaku's Briefing Room. 1733 01:49:24.520 --> 01:49:26.960 That'd be a different channel or the same channel, redone. 1734 01:49:28.439 --> 01:49:30.319 It's going to have to be a different channel. I'm 1735 01:49:30.319 --> 01:49:30.960 sorry to say. 1736 01:49:31.159 --> 01:49:34.560 Okay, so yeah, we'll down the road. You know, I'll 1737 01:49:34.600 --> 01:49:37.239 try to link and promote that one of thy channel. 1738 01:49:38.239 --> 01:49:43.399 Jacob says, I don't even know what that means. Uh door, 1739 01:49:43.479 --> 01:49:45.600 Poor Robin. Shout out to Neil. He says, John is 1740 01:49:46.680 --> 01:49:50.239 spinning yarns. He's a rock contour. We should invite him 1741 01:49:50.239 --> 01:49:52.359 to our super He doesn't mean spinning yarns in a batter. 1742 01:49:52.399 --> 01:49:54.840 He's saying, you're telling you. He says, you're telling great 1743 01:49:55.159 --> 01:49:57.840 He's a good friend. He's saying you're telling great stories. 1744 01:49:57.880 --> 01:49:59.760 He needs to come to our You know what a 1745 01:49:59.840 --> 01:50:02.159 soon is? The Georgian meal. 1746 01:50:03.039 --> 01:50:05.680 Yeah, I appreciate it. 1747 01:50:06.359 --> 01:50:11.159 Mountain Walk. Jay has to dumb down rhetoric because he's 1748 01:50:11.159 --> 01:50:13.279 talking to an audience of midwos and ormies. When he 1749 01:50:13.399 --> 01:50:16.600 encounters for intelligent people to flow, the conversation is much 1750 01:50:16.640 --> 01:50:18.159 more natural and high tier. 1751 01:50:18.239 --> 01:50:27.159 Well and Jay, when you came on my show Deep State, 1752 01:50:27.600 --> 01:50:29.159 I had to stop and think my own show, my 1753 01:50:29.359 --> 01:50:32.079 TV show. We went for an hour and a half 1754 01:50:32.359 --> 01:50:38.439 talking about mostly about Orthodox theology and threats to Orthodox. 1755 01:50:38.560 --> 01:50:41.520 He was fascinating. I couldn't believe ninety minutes had passed 1756 01:50:41.560 --> 01:50:45.319 and they turned it into three separate episodes. It was wonderful, perfect. 1757 01:50:45.359 --> 01:50:47.720 Yeah, that's great, and that is going to be on 1758 01:50:47.920 --> 01:50:49.239 the Deep Focus or is it gonna be on your 1759 01:50:49.279 --> 01:50:49.720 new channel. 1760 01:50:50.119 --> 01:50:51.760 That's going to be on the new channel. 1761 01:50:51.840 --> 01:50:56.800 Okay, awesome, So look for the new channel again. Let's see. 1762 01:50:59.119 --> 01:51:01.520 All right, you guys can't spam like two dollars super 1763 01:51:01.600 --> 01:51:08.279 chat questions come on now? Uh ho, long night, five dollars. 1764 01:51:08.399 --> 01:51:10.840 My grandfather was one of the employees that they tested 1765 01:51:11.000 --> 01:51:13.840 LSD on. Unfortunately, I hate to hear that. Yeah, that's 1766 01:51:13.840 --> 01:51:19.680 a Frankly is it Frank Olsen, Poor Frank ol Let's see, 1767 01:51:20.199 --> 01:51:27.520 Poor Frey says there's a secret Asian peptide. Okay, there's 1768 01:51:27.560 --> 01:51:30.119 a really weird questions now here, come all the skitzos. 1769 01:51:30.199 --> 01:51:33.359 I'm joking, Jude says, for five dollars. To clarify my 1770 01:51:33.600 --> 01:51:37.399 last question, I want to know, can John talk about 1771 01:51:37.640 --> 01:51:39.800 what was going on at his time in the Middle East. 1772 01:51:39.960 --> 01:51:40.720 That's a broad question. 1773 01:51:43.600 --> 01:51:45.279 Lots was going on in the Middle East. On the 1774 01:51:45.319 --> 01:51:48.239 one hand, you had the Arab Israeli peace process, which 1775 01:51:48.560 --> 01:51:51.840 which we believed at the time, was really taken hold. 1776 01:51:52.039 --> 01:51:55.039 When I was stationed in Bahrain. We actually sponsored the 1777 01:51:55.199 --> 01:51:57.520 Arab Israeli peace talks on the environment, and then I 1778 01:51:57.560 --> 01:52:00.760 went to Oman for the Arab Israeli piece on water. 1779 01:52:01.560 --> 01:52:04.199 I mean it was weird to see like Israeli flags 1780 01:52:04.239 --> 01:52:10.479 flying and Bahrain and Israeli diplomats walking around crazy at 1781 01:52:10.520 --> 01:52:15.159 the same time. Though, the First Intifada began while I 1782 01:52:15.239 --> 01:52:19.199 was in Bahrain and got pretty ugly, like really ugly. 1783 01:52:19.640 --> 01:52:24.960 I mean, people died, others were executed. It was it 1784 01:52:25.079 --> 01:52:28.039 was nasty. I went into Quait City with the Marines 1785 01:52:28.079 --> 01:52:31.039 on Liberation Day back in ninety one and then you know, 1786 01:52:31.800 --> 01:52:38.119 nine to eleven, and yeah, it was kind of crazy. 1787 01:52:38.319 --> 01:52:42.319 All right, Josh says, thank you both. John. Have you 1788 01:52:42.439 --> 01:52:46.760 noticed any patterns from CIA or FBI drawing from recruiting 1789 01:52:46.920 --> 01:52:51.680 Mormons or perhaps yeah, or other cult groups like Quakers, shows, witnesses, 1790 01:52:51.760 --> 01:52:52.560 or scientologists. 1791 01:52:53.399 --> 01:52:56.199 Oh yeah, yeah, I never encountered to scientologists. But Mormons 1792 01:52:56.239 --> 01:53:00.640 are very, very overly represented in both the c and 1793 01:53:00.840 --> 01:53:04.920 the FBI, to a very slightly lesser extent in NSA. 1794 01:53:05.399 --> 01:53:09.000 And the reason is simple Number one, They've never done anything. 1795 01:53:09.319 --> 01:53:11.680 They don't swear, they don't drink, they don't smoke, they 1796 01:53:11.680 --> 01:53:13.920 don't gamble, they don't screw around, they don't do anything. 1797 01:53:13.960 --> 01:53:16.319 They don't even eat chocolate, and so they just blow 1798 01:53:16.399 --> 01:53:21.319 right through the polygraph exam. More importantly is most of 1799 01:53:21.439 --> 01:53:24.760 them go on these missions when they're eighteen or nineteen 1800 01:53:24.840 --> 01:53:28.439 years old, and they go to bring them young to 1801 01:53:28.479 --> 01:53:30.800 the mission center, and they learn how to speak these 1802 01:53:30.960 --> 01:53:36.000 funky languages that nobody else speaks, Uzbek, Tajik, pash To, 1803 01:53:36.720 --> 01:53:40.720 these African languages, and so they arrive on the job 1804 01:53:41.039 --> 01:53:43.880 already fluent in these languages, and they can be sent 1805 01:53:44.039 --> 01:53:50.039 operationally immediately overseas. So the Agency and the Bureau just 1806 01:53:50.239 --> 01:53:51.039 love Mormons. 1807 01:53:51.800 --> 01:53:54.199 Yeah. Absolutely, By the way, that's the vindication of something 1808 01:53:54.239 --> 01:53:56.199 that people will keep challenging me. All when I mentioned 1809 01:53:56.239 --> 01:53:58.720 that Jude says were ten dollars, what I was specifically 1810 01:53:58.760 --> 01:54:00.600 asking John about with the Middle East early, I'm sorry 1811 01:54:00.640 --> 01:54:03.680 I couldn't find your other super chat you said, what 1812 01:54:04.239 --> 01:54:06.600 did John think was going on, for example, in the 1813 01:54:06.680 --> 01:54:09.960 Antiochian Church during his time in the Middle East. 1814 01:54:16.199 --> 01:54:21.119 You know, I attended the Antiochian Church when I was 1815 01:54:21.159 --> 01:54:23.239 stationed in the Middle East, just because there was no 1816 01:54:23.439 --> 01:54:29.079 Greek Orthodox Church, specifically in Kuwait. The Antiochians were very strong, 1817 01:54:30.199 --> 01:54:33.079 you know. I don't remember there being any controversy when 1818 01:54:33.119 --> 01:54:35.760 I was living there in the nineties. It was all 1819 01:54:35.800 --> 01:54:38.640 pretty straightforward. And then when I was stationed in Bahrain, 1820 01:54:39.199 --> 01:54:43.279 I was very close friends with the Greek consul general. 1821 01:54:44.239 --> 01:54:48.640 She was a Greek American and there was no Cypriot 1822 01:54:48.720 --> 01:54:51.560 representation there, so she covered Cyprus as well. And then 1823 01:54:51.600 --> 01:54:56.399 she said to me one day, hey, Archbishop Cristodolos is 1824 01:54:56.439 --> 01:54:58.439 going to come to Bahrain and he wants to meet 1825 01:54:58.479 --> 01:55:00.279 with the Emir. We're going to have all all of 1826 01:55:00.399 --> 01:55:03.920 the Orthodox, the Greeks and the Cypriots go with him 1827 01:55:04.000 --> 01:55:07.520 to see the Amir. The Amir was surprised to see me. 1828 01:55:07.600 --> 01:55:09.359 He had no idea. I mean, there was no reason 1829 01:55:09.399 --> 01:55:12.359 why he would have known that I was Orthodox. And 1830 01:55:13.199 --> 01:55:15.439 we had the meeting and then he pulls me aside 1831 01:55:16.479 --> 01:55:20.359 and he says to me, he whispers, I like your Ayatola. 1832 01:55:20.960 --> 01:55:24.560 He said, your Imam. He said, I like your Imam. 1833 01:55:25.239 --> 01:55:28.439 I trust him, and I said, he likes you, your Highness. 1834 01:55:29.119 --> 01:55:32.439 Next thing, you know, the Amir donates a giant plot 1835 01:55:32.520 --> 01:55:36.439 of land, it was like two acres, and we built 1836 01:55:36.439 --> 01:55:39.279 the first ever Greek Orthodox church or the first ever 1837 01:55:39.439 --> 01:55:43.039 Orthodox church in Bahrain. It was very very generous. In 1838 01:55:43.159 --> 01:55:48.079 Kuwait there were already Orthodox churches, Antiochian and Armenian, and 1839 01:55:48.239 --> 01:55:51.560 then later on, toward the end of the nineties, they 1840 01:55:51.680 --> 01:55:57.319 built an Antiochian church in Doha. I was in Dubai 1841 01:55:57.680 --> 01:56:00.680 a few weeks ago, and there are churches in both 1842 01:56:00.760 --> 01:56:04.880 Dubai and Abu Dhabi. I don't think there's anything in Muscat, 1843 01:56:05.039 --> 01:56:10.319 and absolutely, absolutely positively nothing in Saudi Arabia anywhere you'll 1844 01:56:10.359 --> 01:56:13.520 lose your head. But things were going pretty well from 1845 01:56:13.560 --> 01:56:15.079 the Antiochians when I was living there. 1846 01:56:15.800 --> 01:56:18.960 Hendrik says, have you guys read Which Path to Persia 1847 01:56:19.039 --> 01:56:21.319 from two thousand nine Brookings Institute. Yes, I haven't read 1848 01:56:21.319 --> 01:56:23.079 the whole thame. I'm familiar with that. I did actually 1849 01:56:23.119 --> 01:56:25.119 look it up the other day. In it, they admit 1850 01:56:25.199 --> 01:56:28.520 that the US will go to war for Israel and Iran. 1851 01:56:28.600 --> 01:56:30.600 The US is not getting bombed by Iran, but the 1852 01:56:30.640 --> 01:56:33.279 Gulf Allies are, and I assumed John probably agrees with that. 1853 01:56:33.920 --> 01:56:38.079 Yeah, absolutely absolutely John. 1854 01:56:38.119 --> 01:56:41.640 Are there other members of in seventeen that perhaps never 1855 01:56:41.760 --> 01:56:44.600 got caught and continue in Greek leftist parties? 1856 01:56:45.560 --> 01:56:49.840 Yes, there was one in particular who admitted that he 1857 01:56:50.079 --> 01:56:52.800 was one of the two shooters in the Welsh assassination. 1858 01:56:54.479 --> 01:56:57.600 He dropped out of seventeen November. He was the only 1859 01:56:57.640 --> 01:57:03.279 one to voluntarily leave and joined the Greek Communist Party 1860 01:57:03.359 --> 01:57:09.399 and became the president of Greece's largest labor union. Greece 1861 01:57:09.560 --> 01:57:14.239 is one of those rare countries which very stupidly has 1862 01:57:14.920 --> 01:57:19.199 a statute of limitations on murder, and so he was 1863 01:57:19.359 --> 01:57:23.319 never prosecuted. He got away scott free with the Welsh assassination. 1864 01:57:24.880 --> 01:57:27.079 All right, I'm gonna John will have to leave soon. 1865 01:57:27.119 --> 01:57:28.479 I don't want to keep him too long, so I'm 1866 01:57:28.479 --> 01:57:31.079 going to try to figure out the higher tier super 1867 01:57:31.159 --> 01:57:33.439 chats here and read the last one or two GM 1868 01:57:33.520 --> 01:57:35.840 says for fifty dollars. I'm loving this interview. Thank you 1869 01:57:35.880 --> 01:57:42.119 so much, GM. I appreciate that. Let's see Banana says 1870 01:57:42.199 --> 01:57:46.560 for twenty dollars. John, Can you talk about the CIA 1871 01:57:46.920 --> 01:57:50.720 culture and its influence in America, for example, and universities 1872 01:57:51.159 --> 01:57:54.720 Middle Eastern countries and spreading Americanism in terms of soft power. 1873 01:57:56.039 --> 01:58:00.319 Wow, we would need a whole episode for that. The answer, 1874 01:58:00.399 --> 01:58:04.760 obviously is You're exactly right that ciasoft power is being 1875 01:58:04.920 --> 01:58:08.800 exerted everywhere that you've just cited, whether it's in television 1876 01:58:08.960 --> 01:58:15.359 series or Hollywood movies or the media, or across universities. 1877 01:58:15.520 --> 01:58:18.319 You know, I was recruited by my grad school professor, 1878 01:58:18.399 --> 01:58:21.039 and then with passage of the nineteen ninety three Equal 1879 01:58:21.079 --> 01:58:24.239 Employment Opportunity Act, that became illegal. So what they did 1880 01:58:24.359 --> 01:58:26.720 is they just went around the EEOC. What they do 1881 01:58:26.920 --> 01:58:30.760 now is if you are within three years of retirement 1882 01:58:30.880 --> 01:58:34.880 and you're a senior operations officer, they'll send you back 1883 01:58:34.960 --> 01:58:38.800 to your alma mater to teach some innocuous course. A 1884 01:58:38.840 --> 01:58:41.079 buddy of mine right now is teaching a course at 1885 01:58:41.159 --> 01:58:48.359 Indiana University called Espionage in Soviet Literature. Nobody gives a 1886 01:58:48.359 --> 01:58:51.600 shit about espionage and Soviet literature. The whole point of 1887 01:58:51.640 --> 01:58:54.119 the class is for people to come up to him 1888 01:58:54.199 --> 01:58:56.560 after class and say, Hey, I'd really like to join 1889 01:58:56.640 --> 01:58:58.880 the CIA. And then he says, let me introduce you 1890 01:58:58.920 --> 01:59:02.680 to a friend of mine. That's what it's for now. 1891 01:59:03.119 --> 01:59:05.079 Last question, because John's gonna have to go right now. 1892 01:59:05.479 --> 01:59:07.239 Thank you so much for joining me. John. Again, all 1893 01:59:07.279 --> 01:59:09.319 the links are going to be below pleasure And this 1894 01:59:09.479 --> 01:59:11.520 is always a classic. It comes up, of course with 1895 01:59:11.600 --> 01:59:15.119 the books that I wrote. But John, this is from 1896 01:59:15.199 --> 01:59:18.560 Penny for twenty dollars. Is House of Cards worth watching? 1897 01:59:18.920 --> 01:59:22.279 Or what are the TV shows or movies that really 1898 01:59:22.439 --> 01:59:25.159 give insights into accuracy with the CIA? 1899 01:59:25.960 --> 01:59:28.760 House of Cards definitely is worth watching. That is the 1900 01:59:28.880 --> 01:59:32.840 story of the Clinton family. I mean, they don't even 1901 01:59:32.880 --> 01:59:35.680 try to mask it. House of Cards is about the Clintons. Yes, 1902 01:59:36.479 --> 01:59:40.000 don't miss it. But an even better show is The Americans. 1903 01:59:40.840 --> 01:59:43.680 A former colleague of mine in the CI's Counter Terrorism Center, 1904 01:59:43.760 --> 01:59:48.520 Joe Weisberg, resigned. I remember the day he resigned. He 1905 01:59:48.640 --> 01:59:50.359 came up to me. He said, buddy, I just resigned. 1906 01:59:50.359 --> 01:59:53.439 I was like, what, why would you resign? And he said, 1907 01:59:53.479 --> 01:59:55.640 this job is just not for me. He said, I 1908 01:59:55.680 --> 01:59:58.399 don't have it in my gut to convince somebody to 1909 01:59:58.479 --> 02:00:02.239 commit treason. He said, I just can't do it. But 1910 02:00:02.319 --> 02:00:04.760 he was unmarried, no kids. I said, what are you 1911 02:00:04.800 --> 02:00:05.880 going to do? He said, I'm going to go to 1912 02:00:05.960 --> 02:00:10.279 Hollywood and find my fortune. And he published a very 1913 02:00:10.439 --> 02:00:13.840 highly regarded novel that was heavily redacted because it was 1914 02:00:13.880 --> 02:00:18.560 so true to life, and then immediately created The Americans 1915 02:00:19.239 --> 02:00:21.520 and never has to work again a day in his life. 1916 02:00:22.520 --> 02:00:24.079 Yeah, it's a great show. It's my favorite, one of 1917 02:00:24.159 --> 02:00:26.680 my favorite TV shows, definitely. We've we've done several podcasts 1918 02:00:26.720 --> 02:00:29.800 in the archives, you guys, with our good buddy Mark Hackard, 1919 02:00:30.199 --> 02:00:34.600 Russia Analysts specialist, translator, translates KGB stuff, and of course 1920 02:00:34.640 --> 02:00:36.960 he did a great podcast with me on the Americans. 1921 02:00:37.159 --> 02:00:41.279 Everybody be sure and follow John Kiyaku in the show description. John, 1922 02:00:41.359 --> 02:00:43.239 thank you so much. I'm honored to speak with you 1923 02:00:43.520 --> 02:00:46.239 and so proud of your work and what you're doing 1924 02:00:46.319 --> 02:00:48.560 and seeing you all over all these podcasts and great episode. 1925 02:00:48.600 --> 02:00:49.239 I'll Tucker by the. 1926 02:00:49.239 --> 02:00:51.960 Way, thank you very very much, appreciate it. It's good 1927 02:00:51.960 --> 02:00:52.520 to see you again. 1928 02:00:52.880 --> 02:00:55.079 All right, excellent, and I'll let John go. He's got 1929 02:00:55.119 --> 02:00:58.840 a busy schedule, so thank you there. John, and I 1930 02:00:58.920 --> 02:01:01.399 do want to get to several of the superchats. I 1931 02:01:01.520 --> 02:01:03.239 know you guys probably wanted him to answer a lot 1932 02:01:03.279 --> 02:01:06.880 of these, but there were so many little super chats 1933 02:01:08.439 --> 02:01:16.239 that we can't spend three hours asking John Kuraaku two 1934 02:01:16.680 --> 02:01:19.800 three five dollars super chats. Come on, you guys, so 1935 02:01:19.920 --> 02:01:22.199 I'll answer to the best of my abilities. Of the 1936 02:01:22.279 --> 02:01:26.520 rest of these, We've got t X says for two pounds, 1937 02:01:26.960 --> 02:01:29.800 does wig up boomer? Maxon, Come on, dude, you talking 1938 02:01:29.800 --> 02:01:33.000 about me or talking about John. John might actually be 1939 02:01:33.359 --> 02:01:33.880 gen X. 1940 02:01:34.000 --> 02:01:34.399 He might not. 1941 02:01:34.560 --> 02:01:37.000 Actually I think he's older gen X. I don't think 1942 02:01:37.039 --> 02:01:39.880 he would qualify as boomer. But even if he does, 1943 02:01:40.239 --> 02:01:43.039 he is a cool boomer. And you guys know that 1944 02:01:43.399 --> 02:01:45.600 all the boomers in our sphere, whether it's Dean Arnold 1945 02:01:46.039 --> 02:01:49.479 or good buddy Jim Jatras another Greek friend of ours, 1946 02:01:49.560 --> 02:01:53.520 they're all the best of the boomers for sure. Mountain Walk, 1947 02:01:54.800 --> 02:01:56.319 I know you sent a bunch. Let's se if we 1948 02:01:56.319 --> 02:02:00.159 can read some of these that we missed with to 1949 02:02:00.319 --> 02:02:03.079 Walk here. Hold on a second, this screen is freezing 1950 02:02:03.159 --> 02:02:12.560 up again. Night Fire says were twenty dollars years ago. 1951 02:02:12.640 --> 02:02:14.600 When I was driving later night, someone I know took 1952 02:02:14.640 --> 02:02:16.720 a right turn on a street. They ended up on 1953 02:02:16.760 --> 02:02:20.279 another street and that would have been thirty minutes away. 1954 02:02:20.439 --> 02:02:24.880 Is that wormhole technology? Maybe your friend was just high 1955 02:02:24.920 --> 02:02:27.399 as hell and he just sort of like drove around 1956 02:02:27.520 --> 02:02:30.840 and got you know, lost. That's more likely than a 1957 02:02:30.920 --> 02:02:34.439 wormhole poor free twenty dollars. Do intelligence agencies talk or 1958 02:02:34.520 --> 02:02:38.840 care about macroeconomic monetary policy? Absolutely? I mean I would 1959 02:02:38.880 --> 02:02:41.960 say they care about that because there are many academics 1960 02:02:42.039 --> 02:02:45.359 and economists that work for intelligence agencies. Do they care 1961 02:02:45.399 --> 02:02:47.520 about the actions of the Federal Reserve. I'm sure that 1962 02:02:47.600 --> 02:02:53.239 they watch them and note them and track them. What 1963 02:02:53.399 --> 02:02:55.920 topics are good for lay people to study to better 1964 02:02:56.000 --> 02:03:00.520 position themselves in the world. Well, if you mean my natarily, 1965 02:03:00.520 --> 02:03:04.920 because you're talking about money, money policy. Guess what. My 1966 02:03:06.039 --> 02:03:10.479 Bitcoin News podcast just went up. We did this I 1967 02:03:10.560 --> 02:03:14.159 think last week. And this is our buddy here who 1968 02:03:14.840 --> 02:03:18.720 Rob Wallace, who just did a great interview with me. 1969 02:03:18.880 --> 02:03:20.119 Let me see if I can pull that up here 1970 02:03:20.199 --> 02:03:23.800 on window capture since we had collab cam up. 1971 02:03:24.640 --> 02:03:25.039 Here we go. 1972 02:03:26.640 --> 02:03:30.560 So here's me and Rob. I'm Rob Thomas. This is 1973 02:03:30.680 --> 02:03:34.960 Rob Wallace. If you'll go, bar there, you need to 1974 02:03:35.039 --> 02:03:40.680 get big coin. If you're broke, Bary bear, you need 1975 02:03:40.840 --> 02:03:44.439 to get big coin. So there's my answer on monetary 1976 02:03:44.479 --> 02:03:50.800 policy in the chat there there it is right there. Oh, 1977 02:03:50.880 --> 02:03:53.319 I pulled up us the wrong screen in it. Let's see, 1978 02:03:53.359 --> 02:03:56.680 let's see if we can do that. Is that that 1979 02:03:56.800 --> 02:03:57.359 didn't fix it? 1980 02:03:57.439 --> 02:03:57.680 Does it? 1981 02:03:59.279 --> 02:04:05.600 Babe? You need to come home. If you'll go whar 1982 02:04:06.000 --> 02:04:09.760 you need? Come there? 1983 02:04:09.840 --> 02:04:10.000 We go. 1984 02:04:10.319 --> 02:04:20.079 Now we fixed it seems like a lot of y'all 1985 02:04:20.119 --> 02:04:25.520 are not enjoying the the Rob Thomas nineteen ninety eight 1986 02:04:26.520 --> 02:04:29.560 Clooney Caesar cut y'all. A lot of y'all getting mad. 1987 02:04:30.640 --> 02:04:34.760 A lot of y'all will just obsess on hair, hair, hair, hair, 1988 02:04:34.960 --> 02:04:37.760 talk about hair all the time. Y'all need to go 1989 02:04:37.800 --> 02:04:40.039 get your hair did, because that's all y'all talk about 1990 02:04:40.359 --> 02:04:42.800 night fire twenty dollars. No, we did that, Penny, we 1991 02:04:43.239 --> 02:04:49.279 did Penny Mountain Walk says he's the one that throws 1992 02:04:49.319 --> 02:04:51.359 throwing all the hold on orthow cards fight. I was Jay, 1993 02:04:51.439 --> 02:04:54.600 what's going on when hummus? I heard it's not good 1994 02:04:54.800 --> 02:04:56.960 you talking about eating hummus. I mean I eat hummus 1995 02:04:57.000 --> 02:04:58.880 every now and then. I have not heard that it's 1996 02:04:58.920 --> 02:05:03.439 bad for you, though. Enlighten me. I guess you're asking 1997 02:05:03.520 --> 02:05:06.880 about Middle Eastern foods, y'all. What y'all are on? Mah 1998 02:05:07.720 --> 02:05:09.560 Mountain Walk? Ten dollars? Who is this? 1999 02:05:09.760 --> 02:05:10.000 Nerd? 2000 02:05:11.399 --> 02:05:15.279 Is his favorite pokemon al Kazam dork alert? I think 2001 02:05:15.279 --> 02:05:18.800 you're talking about me right, Surely you're not calling saying 2002 02:05:18.840 --> 02:05:22.960 that about John Jacob. The Fate Electrician has an awesome 2003 02:05:23.039 --> 02:05:28.680 video on Billy Waugh. Okay, he's talking about a YouTube 2004 02:05:28.720 --> 02:05:33.479 channel on Billy Wall that waug h that John mentioned 2005 02:05:33.479 --> 02:05:38.359 in the interview. Mountain Walk twenty dollars, Jay, have you 2006 02:05:38.439 --> 02:05:40.840 played ain Honder? No, I don't know what that is. 2007 02:05:41.520 --> 02:05:44.640 Mountain Walker five dollars. These guys are thinking too much 2008 02:05:44.840 --> 02:05:47.880 now he's mega Alkazam. Mountain Walk five dollars. I feel 2009 02:05:47.880 --> 02:05:50.239 like I'm exploiting the system. I'm ship posting in Jay's 2010 02:05:50.239 --> 02:05:54.159 superchats and then I drink beer for the Texas Rattlesnake. 2011 02:05:54.279 --> 02:05:57.359 Oh hell yeah. May y'all go on full schitzo in 2012 02:05:57.479 --> 02:06:00.319 the chat when we got an esteemed guest trying to 2013 02:06:00.319 --> 02:06:03.119 embarrass me in the chat with these dumb ass super chets. 2014 02:06:03.479 --> 02:06:05.239 I love you mountain Walk, but they're still dumb as 2015 02:06:05.319 --> 02:06:10.800 super jets get wrecked two dollars. How do I forgive 2016 02:06:10.880 --> 02:06:15.000 the justice system? As an orthodox Christian? Forgive the justice system? 2017 02:06:16.359 --> 02:06:20.319 You don't forgive systems. You forgive people individually, poor free 2018 02:06:20.399 --> 02:06:24.039 five dollars, secret Asian peptie, and we did that. Mountain 2019 02:06:24.079 --> 02:06:27.079 Walk five dollars. Get John to stop freaking me out 2020 02:06:27.079 --> 02:06:31.920 about flying saucers. It's not aliens. The alternative hypothesis is 2021 02:06:31.960 --> 02:06:37.359 disturbing Mountain Walk asking about high jump Jude. Okay, I'm 2022 02:06:37.359 --> 02:06:39.479 sorry I missed that question there, Jude, but I did 2023 02:06:39.560 --> 02:06:42.159 get in and there at the end he says for 2024 02:06:42.239 --> 02:06:46.399 twenty dollars about the antiochin church craftsmen five dollars. How 2025 02:06:46.479 --> 02:06:49.279 do we know he isn't running a mission talking to Jay? 2026 02:06:49.800 --> 02:06:52.920 What if he's trying to take down our bipoc queen Well, 2027 02:06:53.000 --> 02:06:55.920 John has been on like a thousand podcasts in the 2028 02:06:56.039 --> 02:07:00.880 last few months, so I mean, I doubt that I'm 2029 02:07:01.079 --> 02:07:04.439 high up on the mission targeting there. He's if he's 2030 02:07:04.520 --> 02:07:06.640 on every frigate, but I mean he's on Tucker, He's 2031 02:07:06.680 --> 02:07:10.560 on Danny Jones, He's on Rogan, He's on every podcast. 2032 02:07:10.680 --> 02:07:14.800 So you know, you guys are being paranoid. Mountain Walk 2033 02:07:14.840 --> 02:07:19.840 ten dollars, I'm pro THEO or ten dollars. What are 2034 02:07:19.880 --> 02:07:23.920 your favorite psychology books. I'm not a psychology master. I 2035 02:07:24.000 --> 02:07:27.479 mean I have some big, fat, you know history of psychology. 2036 02:07:27.720 --> 02:07:31.279 I've got some you know, Carl Young books. We lectured 2037 02:07:31.319 --> 02:07:34.600 through Carl Jung here on my channel. I've read some 2038 02:07:35.239 --> 02:07:39.720 kind of basic bitch psychology texts and psychiatric texts. We 2039 02:07:39.880 --> 02:07:42.359 did that one switching time on MPD D I D. 2040 02:07:42.560 --> 02:07:46.600 We've done Colin Ross's books, h Osir's Complex. I have 2041 02:07:46.680 --> 02:07:49.199 a talk on OSI's complex from about ten years ago, 2042 02:07:49.680 --> 02:07:58.359 so those would probably be my offering. Young Cobb five 2043 02:07:58.439 --> 02:08:02.399 dollars ask him about boyd to skull and gang stalking again. 2044 02:08:02.439 --> 02:08:06.239 You guys are going full skitzo here, poor free five dollars. 2045 02:08:06.359 --> 02:08:10.279 J for President. I don't want to be president, dude. 2046 02:08:10.359 --> 02:08:16.159 Presidents are all compromised, and just you become president, you 2047 02:08:16.239 --> 02:08:20.279 come out eight your aged twenty years for four years right, 2048 02:08:20.520 --> 02:08:23.199 four years? Trans you give away twenty years of your life. 2049 02:08:23.239 --> 02:08:25.960 You look like a dang senior citizen when you come 2050 02:08:26.000 --> 02:08:29.960 out of being a president. Inchoirer goose five dollars. How 2051 02:08:30.000 --> 02:08:32.439 do we get enormies at work and our social groups 2052 02:08:32.479 --> 02:08:34.760 to open their eyes to the things that you guys 2053 02:08:34.800 --> 02:08:37.680 are talking about without thinking them we're crazy. Gonna be 2054 02:08:37.720 --> 02:08:40.119 honest with your dog, You're probably not gonna get them 2055 02:08:40.199 --> 02:08:43.560 open to the stuff we're talking about. This is niche 2056 02:08:43.600 --> 02:08:48.399 subject matter for nerds, but chad nerds and everybody in 2057 02:08:48.399 --> 02:08:50.680 our audience is of course a chad nerd. And that's 2058 02:08:50.720 --> 02:08:52.479 why you need to head on over to our sponsor, 2059 02:08:52.560 --> 02:08:55.800 which is chalk dot com, the best in supplementation for 2060 02:08:56.039 --> 02:09:00.279 chad nerds on the internet. This is workout adjacent. Are 2061 02:09:00.279 --> 02:09:02.199 not Ppe pills, so don't get mad at me. This 2062 02:09:02.319 --> 02:09:06.199 is workout adjacent. We want you to get your toxic 2063 02:09:06.279 --> 02:09:09.199 masculinity levels up, get in the gym, get fit, get active, 2064 02:09:09.800 --> 02:09:12.319 and you do that through using promo code J sixty life. 2065 02:09:12.359 --> 02:09:14.800 That's Jay six zero lv JA sixty life to get 2066 02:09:14.920 --> 02:09:17.520 the best supplements on the internet, including that tongkat Alee, 2067 02:09:17.960 --> 02:09:23.560 which is my favorite, proven to boost testosterone dog tongkat Alie. 2068 02:09:23.880 --> 02:09:26.159 Get on over there and get that, de says for 2069 02:09:26.199 --> 02:09:28.880 fifteen dollars Kurayaku die Er twenty twenty eight, We're gonna 2070 02:09:28.880 --> 02:09:31.680 set up orthodox theocracy. I don't think that's going to happen, 2071 02:09:31.840 --> 02:09:35.680 but I appreciate this sentiment. Did John struggle to adjust 2072 02:09:35.720 --> 02:09:38.960 after leaving the CIA going to everyday life as a civilian? 2073 02:09:39.000 --> 02:09:41.680 Can he tell the truth? I will try to have 2074 02:09:41.840 --> 02:09:43.680 John back on. We'll ask some of these questions. I'm 2075 02:09:43.680 --> 02:09:47.640 sure he has answered that question in other podcasts. Brandon 2076 02:09:47.720 --> 02:09:50.319 Lee ten dollars bas On experience was the biggest threat 2077 02:09:51.199 --> 02:09:53.800 to our country in the coming decade. I think he 2078 02:09:54.079 --> 02:09:58.520 thinks is probably other nations. He mentioned China as a 2079 02:09:58.560 --> 02:10:04.399 greater threat than Rush to Tucker, not Iran, So I 2080 02:10:04.520 --> 02:10:06.920 think John probably said those things. But we'll we'll try 2081 02:10:06.960 --> 02:10:08.720 to answer it. We'll ask him some of these questions 2082 02:10:09.359 --> 02:10:11.239 if we can get him back on in the future. 2083 02:10:14.840 --> 02:10:16.840 Mountain Walk. I'm sorry for all these questions and my 2084 02:10:16.880 --> 02:10:18.800 autism to day. It's okay. You sound like you're drunk dog. 2085 02:10:18.840 --> 02:10:21.800 That's all right, Daniel five dollars. I don't. I'm not 2086 02:10:21.880 --> 02:10:23.560 dissing you. I'm just saying like it sounds like you're 2087 02:10:23.560 --> 02:10:26.640 talking about drinking beer at Texas, saluting Texas with your 2088 02:10:26.680 --> 02:10:30.640 beer steins, Daniel five dollars. Does American and jim any 2089 02:10:30.680 --> 02:10:33.359 prevent stability in Latin America? Do you have any books 2090 02:10:33.399 --> 02:10:37.640 on this? There are quite a few books on I 2091 02:10:37.720 --> 02:10:40.079 mean most of William ing f William ing Doll's books 2092 02:10:40.119 --> 02:10:45.000 cover this. Peter Dale Scott has a book called Cocaine Politics, 2093 02:10:45.640 --> 02:10:47.600 and those deal with Latin South America. So I think 2094 02:10:47.640 --> 02:10:49.920 that that definitely plays a role. But I'm not an 2095 02:10:49.960 --> 02:10:53.600 expert when it comes to Latin South American stuff. Papist 2096 02:10:53.760 --> 02:10:55.840 Gavin Or Bland twenty dollars a day. I love you. 2097 02:10:55.880 --> 02:10:58.600 You're finally getting on platforms. Now I get to binge 2098 02:10:58.640 --> 02:11:04.319 all my favorite topics. Thank you. W Milder ten dollars. 2099 02:11:04.680 --> 02:11:07.840 Question for you, is Angela Merkell one of the worst 2100 02:11:07.920 --> 02:11:10.000 EU leaders after nineteen forty five. I'm a fan of 2101 02:11:10.079 --> 02:11:12.279 both of you guys. I don't know what John would 2102 02:11:12.279 --> 02:11:16.159 say about Angela Merkele. I think she's terrible. Absolutely, She's 2103 02:11:16.760 --> 02:11:20.039 a total puppet, contributing to the destruction of that country. 2104 02:11:20.960 --> 02:11:24.039 Anonymous five dollars crisis resident is I saw you at Pasca. 2105 02:11:24.119 --> 02:11:27.199 That was cool. I locked into the military for four 2106 02:11:27.279 --> 02:11:31.000 years after twenty twenty seven as an officer. Do you 2107 02:11:31.039 --> 02:11:34.479 have any advice? I'm an inquirer. I mean I didn't 2108 02:11:34.520 --> 02:11:37.600 go to the military route. I don't that's the kind 2109 02:11:37.640 --> 02:11:39.479 of advice I would say that you should take to 2110 02:11:39.560 --> 02:11:42.920 your spiritual father, because you know, I never went that 2111 02:11:43.079 --> 02:11:46.399 route as I'm a civilian, so I don't know that 2112 02:11:46.479 --> 02:11:53.960 I could advise you on your military choice. JV. John, 2113 02:11:54.000 --> 02:12:02.640 This is an amazing interview. We did that one making 2114 02:12:02.680 --> 02:12:06.560 sure I didn't miss you guys because I was kind. 2115 02:12:06.640 --> 02:12:08.680 I was having to scroll past some of them because 2116 02:12:08.920 --> 02:12:16.720 we had limited time. Okay, I think we got most 2117 02:12:16.720 --> 02:12:18.560 of those. Daniel sett No, we did, Daniel, all right, 2118 02:12:18.640 --> 02:12:32.399 let's see over here, Dill Weed, where'd it go? You get? 2119 02:12:32.520 --> 02:12:37.960 John kiriaku On. You guys are asking about hummus and 2120 02:12:38.279 --> 02:12:43.359 end times, retard eschatology, like guys, you had you had 2121 02:12:43.479 --> 02:12:47.479 a limited time, you could have asked a very prominent 2122 02:12:47.560 --> 02:12:52.159 person some serious questions. You guys are asking about uh 2123 02:12:52.960 --> 02:12:57.720 vitamins and minerals and just crazy shit. Y'all trying to 2124 02:12:57.720 --> 02:13:03.680 embarrass me. Ant and Rodriguez ten dollars. You'll cut free. 2125 02:13:03.760 --> 02:13:06.840 I don't get a haircut, dog. Your cut is fresh. 2126 02:13:07.119 --> 02:13:10.319 You need a wigger cut. I'm growing it out a 2127 02:13:10.359 --> 02:13:13.119 little bit, not long, but I'm just gonna have a 2128 02:13:13.119 --> 02:13:15.920 little bit of shaggy hair. Jamie requested a little bit 2129 02:13:15.960 --> 02:13:19.000 of shag, so we're going to see what the shag 2130 02:13:19.119 --> 02:13:21.600 looks like. I might be too. I don't know. It 2131 02:13:21.680 --> 02:13:23.760 might not be cool enough for shaggy hair. We'll see 2132 02:13:23.840 --> 02:13:34.359 if it looks dumb, I'll cut it non fake blake 2133 02:13:34.439 --> 02:13:36.960 twenty dollars. I'm always I've always been a fan of you. Both. 2134 02:13:37.119 --> 02:13:39.960 You have expertise and insights. I'm a cradle Greek orthodox 2135 02:13:40.000 --> 02:13:43.279 I mentioned in geopolitics. This discussion is like the Super 2136 02:13:43.319 --> 02:13:45.239 Bowl for me. I don't know what to say about 2137 02:13:45.319 --> 02:13:47.880 Chris osin st and thank you both well. Hey appreciate 2138 02:13:47.960 --> 02:13:54.680 that christ is risen. Jonathan Kelly twenty dollars, John, have 2139 02:13:54.760 --> 02:13:58.840 you looked into orthodox prophecies about current state of geopolitics? 2140 02:13:58.880 --> 02:14:01.800 We'll try to ask him that next time. Diyl Weed 2141 02:14:01.920 --> 02:14:04.479 twenty dollars. Does the nineteen thirty four business plot or 2142 02:14:04.560 --> 02:14:08.319 Wall Street putsch lead to anything? To anything? Because Smedley 2143 02:14:08.359 --> 02:14:11.359 Butler made it sound important to the press, but JP 2144 02:14:11.520 --> 02:14:14.039 Morgan and the other conspirators did not get punished for it. 2145 02:14:14.479 --> 02:14:16.720 Great question. I don't know a lot about that. I mean, 2146 02:14:16.760 --> 02:14:20.359 I'm familiar with the overall smelly Butler critique and thesis, 2147 02:14:20.439 --> 02:14:22.880 but that's a great question. I don't know. JB. Pelt 2148 02:14:23.000 --> 02:14:25.239 A twenty dollars. This is a fascinating discussion. Guys, thank 2149 02:14:25.279 --> 02:14:29.079 you so much. Hit like share, be sure and also 2150 02:14:29.560 --> 02:14:33.199 support us through the books. Subscribe to John his channel 2151 02:14:33.279 --> 02:14:36.560 is linked in the chat and everybody, I will see 2152 02:14:36.600 --> 02:14:39.520 you soon on a livestream soon again, go watch the 2153 02:14:39.920 --> 02:14:44.239 bitcoin interview that we did here. Great bitcoin podcast at 2154 02:14:44.279 --> 02:14:47.520 Bitcoin News. I tried to encapsulate the strongest arguments in 2155 02:14:47.560 --> 02:14:50.319 case for bitcoin within about thirty minutes, so you can 2156 02:14:50.399 --> 02:14:53.640 check that out right there. Be sure and follow Rob 2157 02:14:53.720 --> 02:14:57.520 Wallace and Bitcoin News. Very cool, dude, Thank you to Orthodox. 2158 02:14:57.600 --> 02:14:59.960 Now we had a great conversation a bitcoin from an 2159 02:15:00.000 --> 02:15:03.800 Worthox perspective. It's BROSI five dollars get Jamie to corn 2160 02:15:03.880 --> 02:15:07.079 Road as shit if they get long enough. If they 2161 02:15:07.119 --> 02:15:09.479 get long enough, I'll do it. You know what I'm saying. Yes, 2162 02:15:09.640 --> 02:15:13.840 you can follow John a Deep Focus. But also John 2163 02:15:13.840 --> 02:15:17.760 will have a new channel focusing on his new podcast, 2164 02:15:17.840 --> 02:15:21.039 so be sure and follow that. The podcast that we 2165 02:15:21.199 --> 02:15:28.920 did on his RT Deep State show is also available 2166 02:15:28.960 --> 02:15:30.399 on the clip channels. I may just go ahead and 2167 02:15:30.520 --> 02:15:35.640 upload that since it's already everywhere. People put it up everywhere. Guys, everybody, 2168 02:15:35.680 --> 02:15:38.880 have a great night. Share this interview, Clip the heck 2169 02:15:38.880 --> 02:15:41.279 out of this interview. As you guys know, I encourage 2170 02:15:41.319 --> 02:15:44.199 you all to freely clip away. You don't have to 2171 02:15:44.239 --> 02:15:46.880 ask for permission. Just link back to the original channel 2172 02:15:46.960 --> 02:15:49.279 is the only requirement. If you want to clip me, 2173 02:15:49.359 --> 02:15:51.159 feel free to do it. I don't care. And also 2174 02:15:51.199 --> 02:15:51.720 in this case,