Speaker 1: Do the people do the people don't do the doople do?
Speaker 2: Do? Do?
Speaker 3: All right, Welcome to Jay's Analysis, Guys, thank you for
Speaker 3: joining me today. We have an esteemed guest, somebody that
Speaker 3: I consider a true patriot and a hero. We have
Speaker 3: with us, John Kiriaku. You've probably seen him all over
Speaker 3: the podcast, blowing up everywhere in the last few months.
Speaker 3: He is a former Central Intelligence Agency officer, whistleblower, journalist, author,
Speaker 3: and now podcaster, and he joins me today to talk
Speaker 3: about how the world really works, the myths and realities
Speaker 3: of espionage. We're going to talk about history, We're going
Speaker 3: to talk about current topics. John, how are you?
Speaker 2: I'm one?
Speaker 3: Thanks, Jay, how are you good? We had a good
Speaker 3: time talking before and so I thought, Man, this guy
Speaker 3: really knows his stuff. I've listened to I don't know
Speaker 3: how many hours of you in the last in the
Speaker 3: last several months, and it's so weird because when you
Speaker 3: listen to somebody over and over and over on the internet,
Speaker 3: you start to feel like, oh, yeah, I know that guy,
Speaker 3: but you don't actually know that guy. So there is
Speaker 3: a sort of familiarity, and of course we do have
Speaker 3: a lot of things in common let's start it off
Speaker 3: with some notes that I jotted down after listening to
Speaker 3: a lot of the recent interviews that you've done. Of course, guys,
Speaker 3: he did just appear on Tucker and I think that
Speaker 3: went up yesterday or the night. Yeah, and so be
Speaker 3: sure and check that out. John's channel is of course
Speaker 3: linked and he does his channel Deep Focus. And let's
Speaker 3: start with something that's a little spicy. From the outset.
Speaker 3: I hear a lot of former CIA people, pro CIA people,
Speaker 3: present CIA people. They do a sort of apologetic which
Speaker 3: I understand, but they argue that the West and the
Speaker 3: CIA never really engaged in sexual espionage or that kind
Speaker 3: of operation because of the legalities that it would interfere
Speaker 3: with and the rights that people have. Well, we hear
Speaker 3: all kinds of stories as well about Operation Midnight Climax,
Speaker 3: where this is kind of farmed out to the organized
Speaker 3: crime and this kind of stuff. And we hear about
Speaker 3: Epstein and the possible connections with various intelligence agencies throughout
Speaker 3: the world. So is it a situation where it's not
Speaker 3: on the books, but it's done kind of on the side.
Speaker 3: Can you speak to that.
Speaker 2: Oh, I can speak to it. The CIA since its
Speaker 2: inception has been involved in sexual operations, sexual espionage. Certainly,
Speaker 2: sex was a well documented component of MK Ultra, which
Speaker 2: lasted from about nineteen fifty two to nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2: People are going to jump on my head for saying
Speaker 2: it ended in nineteen seventy five. It ended in nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy five. Certainly, there are other operations that could be
Speaker 2: considered successors to MKL but mkltre ended in seventy five.
Speaker 2: You talked about Operation Midnight Climax. That's one of the
Speaker 2: more famous ones, and it's it's one of those operations
Speaker 2: that we talk about today in twenty twenty six, and
Speaker 2: you just have to shake your head and ask, semi rhetorically,
Speaker 2: what in the world were they thinking? But yeah, I
Speaker 2: mean sex. Sex was used routinely well into the late
Speaker 2: seventies the early eighties. One of the very first questions Jay,
Speaker 2: that I asked when I joined not the CI, but
Speaker 2: when I joined Operations, which was about halfway through my
Speaker 2: CIA career, was about the use of honeypots. Right, Because
Speaker 2: when you're learning counter intelligence, you learn how the Russians
Speaker 2: use honeypots, the Israelis use honeypots. Well, what about us?
Speaker 2: And one of my instructors who became my mentor, quite
Speaker 2: a famous officer, gust Avracatis. He was played by Philip
Speaker 2: Seymour Hoffman in the film Charlie Wilson's War. Gust told
Speaker 2: me we used sex all the time until Ronald Reagan
Speaker 2: became president. And we didn't stop because Ronald Reagan became president,
Speaker 2: but roughly that period only because it just didn't work
Speaker 2: after a while. If you really want somebody to be
Speaker 2: a source for you and to commit espionage for you
Speaker 2: over the course of you know, years that had, that
Speaker 2: relationship has to be built on a foundation of trust,
Speaker 2: not one of coercion. And so you know, if you
Speaker 2: go up to somebody and say, listen, we set you
Speaker 2: up with a prostitute the other night and you didn't know,
Speaker 2: but we had the room wired for video and audio,
Speaker 2: and we have these pictures of you and videos, and
Speaker 2: we're going to release them to your wife, or we're
Speaker 2: going to release them to your government unless you work
Speaker 2: for us. That's not how you build trust. That's not
Speaker 2: how you build a long term relationship. And then he
Speaker 2: told me a story. It very well could be apocryphal,
Speaker 2: but I've always believed it. And that was before the
Speaker 2: Iranian Revolution, there was an Ayatola that we wanted to recruit,
Speaker 2: and so we sent a prostitute to kind of bump
Speaker 2: him and lure him into into a hotel, and he
Speaker 2: had sex with her, and we took pictures and video
Speaker 2: and then laid it out in front of him and
Speaker 2: said we've gotcha. And he laughed and he said, I'll
Speaker 2: take that in an eight x ten and give me
Speaker 2: two five x sevens of this one. And he's like,
Speaker 2: what's wrong with you guys? Seriously, like in the movies,
Speaker 2: you're going to try to threaten me get out of here.
Speaker 2: And it was around that operation that a decision was
Speaker 2: made that this just isn't working. If the Israelis and
Speaker 2: the Russians think it works for them, that's fine for them,
Speaker 2: but we just stopped doing it.
Speaker 3: Well, that's interesting because you know when we look into
Speaker 3: Epstein and the files and the emails and all these
Speaker 3: dumps that recently came out, you know, there was quite
Speaker 3: a bit. I don't know if you had ever had
Speaker 3: the any time to realize Whitney Webb's book.
Speaker 2: I thought it was terrific.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Whitney's book was great, and I think she demonstrates
Speaker 3: you know that this is sort of a copy paste
Speaker 3: operation going back to Robert Maxwell, and then you know
Speaker 3: who looks that way, whoever perhaps recruited Robert Maxwell be
Speaker 3: the roth tells, or whoever into doing it and taught
Speaker 3: him the ropes. It seems like that situation was relying
Speaker 3: very heavily on on compromise. Many of the details and
Speaker 3: the emails that are still somewhat ambiguous and hard to
Speaker 3: figure out, they seem to point in that direction. I
Speaker 3: remember somebody saying, maybe it was Andrew Bustamante on a
Speaker 3: video or something, that what he was saying something like, well,
Speaker 3: once you do this, you kind of you can never
Speaker 3: do anything with them again because they're forever gonna hate you.
Speaker 3: So you're not, like you said, building trust. It kind
Speaker 3: of kind of maybe is a last resort? Is that
Speaker 3: why they would rely on something like that for you know,
Speaker 3: so many politicians and members of Congress? Is it Is
Speaker 3: it a last resort or at a first resort for
Speaker 3: some some countries?
Speaker 2: You know, I can give you an educated guess, and
Speaker 2: I'm going to say that it's probably a first resort
Speaker 2: for a lot of a lot of countries. It's unusual
Speaker 2: for me to agree with something that Andrew Busta Monte
Speaker 2: has to say, but I think he's right about that.
Speaker 2: And then coming back to something that you said just
Speaker 2: a moment ago, we have to also consider the use
Speaker 2: of cutouts so that so that the chance of blowback
Speaker 2: is lessened. And what I mean by that is, why
Speaker 2: would you set someone up in a compromising sexual position
Speaker 2: and risk it going bad and then having that blowback
Speaker 2: on you when you can have a cutout do it.
Speaker 2: You can have Jeffrey Epstein do it. You can have
Speaker 2: a foreign intelligence service do it for you, or an
Speaker 2: organized criminal gang or something that doesn't point back to
Speaker 2: the CIA, you know, look at it this way too.
Speaker 2: We learned so much from this latest tranch of the
Speaker 2: Epstein documents, so much, and there are still three to
Speaker 2: three and a half million pages that the President is
Speaker 2: now saying will not be released, apparently because they would
Speaker 2: embarrass friends of his. But we now know that Jeffrey
Speaker 2: Epstein apparently was an access agent for the Israelis, but
Speaker 2: that he had also volunteered to work for the CIA,
Speaker 2: to work for the FBI, to work for the British
Speaker 2: mi I five and the British I six and the Germans,
Speaker 2: and that he had tried repeatedly to get a private
Speaker 2: one on one meeting with Vladimir Putin. He couldn't quite
Speaker 2: get the meeting, but the Russians offered a meeting with
Speaker 2: Putin and two security officials, which Epstein had turned down.
Speaker 2: So I think that the answer to your question is
Speaker 2: most likely yes, that this is going on, that it
Speaker 2: always has gone on. And if it wasn't a direct
Speaker 2: CIA operation to use sex to gather information, it was
Speaker 2: a CIA operation to use a cutout to use sex
Speaker 2: to get information. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think oftentimes people think of this as something that's
Speaker 3: only a government agency, as if it couldn't be Yeah,
Speaker 3: as if it couldn't be farmed out to organize crime,
Speaker 3: you know exactly. You know, you watch The Godfather and
Speaker 3: The Second Godfather. You know, they get the politician at
Speaker 3: one of the Corleones whorehouses, so right, so they got there,
Speaker 3: you know, they got the black know that they needed
Speaker 3: in that situation. So yeah, I think that that's a
Speaker 3: great point, is uh, you know, the use of cutouts.
Speaker 3: And I don't mean to go too much into Hollywood
Speaker 3: and movies. My wife and I were watching Peaky grinders.
Speaker 3: That's a joke, but make fun of a guy that
Speaker 3: peaky blinders. That that was there was a situation where,
Speaker 3: you know, the British government, with my secret Sis at
Speaker 3: that time, I guess, was working with uh, you know,
Speaker 3: Killian Murphy's or Irish criminal gang, and together they're having
Speaker 3: to combat the IRA and the communists, and they're using
Speaker 3: the organized crime in some cases to do a hit.
Speaker 3: And I remember reading in some of the books on
Speaker 3: the operation Underworld and some of the stories of you know,
Speaker 3: the Genovizi crime syndicate after World War One, that the
Speaker 3: the US intelligence apparatus at that time was even kind
Speaker 3: of making links with with organized crime. How significant and
Speaker 3: real do you believe those links were to the underground
Speaker 3: world of organized crime from the American intelligence apparatus over
Speaker 3: the decades of the twentieth century? Is it over? Is
Speaker 3: it exaggerated? Is that something that is very important?
Speaker 2: Strong? And with the advent of the Freedom of Information
Speaker 2: Act and mandatory declassification laws, we now have more details
Speaker 2: about some of these relationships. As you correctly pointed out,
Speaker 2: the FBI worked very closely with the Genovies family to
Speaker 2: secure the Port of Brooklyn and the Port of Newark
Speaker 2: during the Second World War. We know how many different
Speaker 2: times the CIA worked with the Santo Trafficante family in
Speaker 2: Tampa to try to assassinate Fidel Castro. And there are
Speaker 2: other examples too. I have to be careful here.
Speaker 3: Well.
Speaker 2: You know an obvious one from the nineteen eighties is
Speaker 2: when the CIA was working with the Pablo Escobar cartel
Speaker 2: to target communist separatists in Colombia in the jungle. Dea
Speaker 2: was doing one thing, CIA is doing exactly the opposite thing,
Speaker 2: and nobody saw any irony in that. There's a famous
Speaker 2: case with a mob hitman I think he was a
Speaker 2: Colombo named Greg Scarfo, where Scarfo was recruited by the
Speaker 2: FBI to go to Mississippi to find these freedom writers,
Speaker 2: these three freedom writers Chapman, Cheney, I forget the third
Speaker 2: one's name, who had been murdered by the Ku Klux Klan,
Speaker 2: and Scarfo actually kidnapped a klansman and shot him in
Speaker 2: the knees to force him to tell him where the
Speaker 2: bodies were, and then like magic, the FBI discovers the
Speaker 2: bodies in an earthen dam outside of town. So yeah,
Speaker 2: you go through the entire history really of the FBI
Speaker 2: and the history of the CIA, and there are lots
Speaker 2: of examples where they worked very closely with organized crime.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that actually is a great transition to the
Speaker 3: next topic I wanted to ask you about, and that's
Speaker 3: Operation Gladio, because Gladio is another example of a very
Speaker 3: close connection between Western intelligence agencies and organized crime, particularly
Speaker 3: Sicilian mafia. And what we know is is the P
Speaker 3: two Lodge or the Propagonda du A Lodge in Italy,
Speaker 3: and this was a post World War two sort of
Speaker 3: oddly enough fascist tending a series of lodges that were
Speaker 3: able to be sources for recruitment, according to the public
Speaker 3: journalistic material that we have on the part of the
Speaker 3: CIA and other outfits to sort of again recruit from
Speaker 3: also organized crime. We have the character Michelle Sendona, and
Speaker 3: we have the character lchio Gelli, and that ties into
Speaker 3: secret societies as well as Masonic networks things like that.
Speaker 3: Is Gladio a huge component of that post World War
Speaker 3: two alliance with the Vatican and Vatican bank structure or
Speaker 3: is this exaggerated?
Speaker 2: You know, I always believed that that what we've learned publicly.
Speaker 2: Let me let me preface this by saying everything I
Speaker 2: learned about Operation Gladio I learned after I left the CIA.
Speaker 2: It was in nineteen ninety that the Italian Prime Minister,
Speaker 2: and I think it was Andreotti at the time, went
Speaker 2: public when speaking to Parliament about Operation Gladio. For your
Speaker 2: viewers who don't know what Gladio is, it was an
Speaker 2: operation hatched by the CIA, MI Six, the Vatican and
Speaker 2: NATO to leave essentially sleeper agents behind right at the
Speaker 2: end of World War Two and in the couple of
Speaker 2: years after, just in case of a Soviet invasion, so
Speaker 2: that there would be an intelligence structure in place that
Speaker 2: could help the Western services confront the Soviets. You know,
Speaker 2: in retrospect, looking at it in twenty twenty six, it
Speaker 2: seems kind of quaint, you know, the thing of an
Speaker 2: interesting movie that might, you know, get nominated for an
Speaker 2: Academy Award or two. But back then it was deadly serious,
Speaker 2: deadly serious. We really believed the Soviets were going to
Speaker 2: invade Western Europe. We really believed it, and so people
Speaker 2: were scrambling to create an intelligence infrastructure. Keep in mind
Speaker 2: too that the CIA and NATO weren't created until nineteen
Speaker 2: forty seven, so there was this period of about a
Speaker 2: year and a half from forty five to early forty seven,
Speaker 2: where we were just weighing it. M I six was
Speaker 2: sort of the pre eminent intelligence service in the Western world,
Speaker 2: with the KGB being the pre eminent service in the
Speaker 2: Eastern world, and President Truman. President Truman's advisors were saying, listen,
Speaker 2: we need to be prepared for a Soviet invasion of
Speaker 2: Western Europe. And so Truman asked the British to send
Speaker 2: six officers to New York to sit with Americans and
Speaker 2: to help us create what he called a Central Intelligence Agency,
Speaker 2: a place where all foreign intelligence could be collected and analyzed,
Speaker 2: you know, just as a kind of a funny aside.
Speaker 2: All of this ended up happening as part of what's
Speaker 2: called the National Security Act of nineteen forty seven, but
Speaker 2: as an interesting aside. Jade Grew Hoover, the long long
Speaker 2: time director of the FBI. He was the head of
Speaker 2: the FBI for forty what forty eight years. He was
Speaker 2: strongly opposed to the creation of a CIA and an NSC.
Speaker 2: The National Security Council was also created in that same
Speaker 2: National Security Active nineteen forty seven. So he was going
Speaker 2: around Capitol Hill asking members of Commerce to vote against it.
Speaker 2: And this is exactly the opposite of what President Truman wanted.
Speaker 2: Truman got winn that that Hoover was working against passage
Speaker 2: of the bill, and so he called Hoover in and
Speaker 2: told Hoover, you've got this all wrong. This Central Intelligence Agency,
Speaker 2: it's going to be a component of the FBI. So
Speaker 2: you'll be head of the FBI and of the CIA.
Speaker 2: And he said, oh, and he lifted his objection. It
Speaker 2: was a lie. Of course, there was never any intention
Speaker 2: for the CIA to be a division of the FBI,
Speaker 2: and Hoover never forgave Truman for lying to him. But
Speaker 2: we were scrambling in nineteen forty six and early nineteen
Speaker 2: forty seven. Finally these six officers came to New York.
Speaker 2: They were met by Bill Donovan and Prescott Bush and
Speaker 2: a handful of other Swells from Wall Street and the
Speaker 2: Oss days, and with some you know, pads of paper,
Speaker 2: they came up with a centralized intelligence service that we
Speaker 2: called the CIA.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a fascinating history. I remember, uh, you know
Speaker 3: several texts that discuss the extreme influence I guess you
Speaker 3: could say from British intelligence on how to structure it,
Speaker 3: how to set it up. Several early figures were very
Speaker 3: very well trained by the British, like Frank Wisner. It's
Speaker 3: a massive student, yeah, massive student of British counter intelligence.
Speaker 3: But in terms of like going back to Gladio real quick,
Speaker 3: you know a lot of writers conceive of this as
Speaker 3: a template something that is not just about you know,
Speaker 3: setting up networks within Europe that would stave off a
Speaker 3: Soviet NKVD style takeover, but also perhaps uh trained ter
Speaker 3: terror cells it could be activated later on. Now we
Speaker 3: know that perhaps Gladio probably ended, but maybe other types
Speaker 3: of operations or templates that some authors I think Doug
Speaker 3: Valentine and others connect, Yeah, they connect these types of
Speaker 3: operations to the template of Iran contra training, you know,
Speaker 3: the right wing desk squads there. And also isis al
Speaker 3: Kata kinda type training that you would get, you know,
Speaker 3: under Brazenski and Carter and Gates in the late seventies
Speaker 3: early eighties for the for the Soviet situation. Do you
Speaker 3: think that's accurate? Is that exaggerated? Is it a template
Speaker 3: that's used? One last point, I remember reading Miles Copeland's
Speaker 3: book Game of Nations, and he was discussing that in
Speaker 3: his time in Egypt and in Syria when he was
Speaker 3: a consultant to the government's there. Obviously, he says, I
Speaker 3: was working for the CIA. He says, we would use
Speaker 3: terrorists all the time. He says they're great patsies and dupes.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying that the CIA runs every terror operation,
Speaker 3: but he says it's a very useful tool in the toolkit.
Speaker 3: Is that accurate? Is this exaggerated as well? Is it
Speaker 3: a template that's kind of a way to structure around
Speaker 3: contra isis gladiator?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, No, it's not exaggerated. And I would actually
Speaker 2: take issue with his statement that that they're they're dupes.
Speaker 2: They're not dupes. They're partners. Uh, they're they're compensated handsomely
Speaker 2: and you know, you you bank of you bank a
Speaker 2: favor that way.
Speaker 3: I think you're saying the person who goes in and
Speaker 3: actually blows himself up as the dupe. But but maybe
Speaker 3: the handlers are not dupes.
Speaker 2: No, no, I I'm with you on that. Yes, I misunderstood,
Speaker 2: uh yeah, that that would be the dupe. I mean,
Speaker 2: even somebody like me that that was not really my
Speaker 2: world at the CIA. I was strictly a counter terrorism officer,
Speaker 2: but even I had contact with organized crime overseas, and
Speaker 2: you know, we we didn't give each other the warm
Speaker 2: and fuzzies, and we didn't invite each other to dinnerate
Speaker 2: each other's homes or introduce each other to to our
Speaker 2: respective wives. But but we shook hands and money exchanged
Speaker 2: hands and and you know, I got what I wanted
Speaker 2: and he got what he wants it and then we
Speaker 2: never saw each other again. So that's that's actually quite
Speaker 2: a common event. There's risk, of course, because you're you're
Speaker 2: dealing with people who you know, in some cases are
Speaker 2: are stone cold killers, and you need to trust them
Speaker 2: to a point where they do what you're paying them
Speaker 2: to do. The initial encounter is what's the most dangerous.
Speaker 2: I think I have told the story. I was dealing
Speaker 2: with a with an organized crime figure overseas in the
Speaker 2: Middle East, and there was a French intelligence officer dealing
Speaker 2: with him as well. And the French intelligence officer one
Speaker 2: day was just found dead in a ditch on the
Speaker 2: side of the road, and so we had to we
Speaker 2: had to all meet like should I should I go
Speaker 2: to the next meeting? Are they going to kill me?
Speaker 2: At the next meeting. I don't know, I said, I
Speaker 2: don't think he's going to kill me. I think he
Speaker 2: trusts me. So I go to the next meeting. It
Speaker 2: was very tense. It turned out to be our last meeting,
Speaker 2: and as I was one wocking out, he says to me, oh,
Speaker 2: by the way, and I turned and I looked at him,
Speaker 2: and he said, your French friend, very bad trade craft.
Speaker 2: And I wasn't really sure what to make of that,
Speaker 2: other than the fact that he was admitting to me
Speaker 2: that he had killed the French intelligence officer. I don't
Speaker 2: know why he didn't try to kill me, but yeah,
Speaker 2: that kind of thing happens all the time. It's a
Speaker 2: calculated risk that you take, and you know if the gain,
Speaker 2: the potential gain is greater than the potential risk, sure
Speaker 2: you go forward and you're very happy to meet with criminals.
Speaker 3: In regard to terror. Again, you being expert at the
Speaker 3: COO on counter terrorism dealing with that. I think we
Speaker 3: in the world of alternative media, we tend to think
Speaker 3: immediately when you see when you hear the word terry,
Speaker 3: immediately think false flag. You think stage, you think engineered. Certainly,
Speaker 3: not every event is stage or engineer or something like that.
Speaker 3: There are organic believers in radical ideologies, but we also
Speaker 3: have this reality too of false flag events. If if
Speaker 3: we were to think back over the last say century,
Speaker 3: or the last several decades, or how many instances would
Speaker 3: you guess or if you had to do a percentage
Speaker 3: or some just speculation, right, like, do you think most
Speaker 3: major terror events have a kind of connection to a
Speaker 3: state or to some other type of entity or or
Speaker 3: is it organic?
Speaker 4: Now that's a good that's a good question. That's a
Speaker 4: tough question. You know what I'm going to have to say. Oh,
Speaker 4: I'm going to take a lot of shit for this.
Speaker 2: I'm going to have to say that, yes, I think
Speaker 2: most of them probably are connected to a state in
Speaker 2: some way. Geez, I hate, I hate coming off as
Speaker 2: a conspiracy theorist, But when you when you dig down
Speaker 2: into some these operations, I mean, look at nine to eleven, right,
Speaker 2: I mean nine to eleven was carried out by al Kaida.
Speaker 2: We know that one hundred percent, I'm more than I'm
Speaker 2: one thousand percent confident nine to eleven was carried out
Speaker 2: by al Qaida? But who was behind al Qaida?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: Clearly it was the Saudi government, and I believe very
Speaker 2: strongly that the Israelis knew exactly what was going to happen,
Speaker 2: exactly when it was going to happen. But it was
Speaker 2: to Israel's benefit that the United States be attacked, so
Speaker 2: that the US would respond by killing two million Muslims
Speaker 2: over the next twenty years, which is exactly what we did.
Speaker 2: We created chaos in Iraq, and chaos in Syria, and
Speaker 2: chaos in Libya and now chaos in Iran, and that's
Speaker 2: to Israel's benefits. So I think in many many cases, yeah,
Speaker 2: there's a state behind it. And I'll add one thing.
Speaker 2: I've talked about this publicly many times, but on the
Speaker 2: night that we captured up Uzebta in March of two
Speaker 2: thousand and two, we caught him in in a safe
Speaker 2: house and vice Labad, Pakistan. One of the things that
Speaker 2: we confiscated that night was his diary, and so I
Speaker 2: was with him for the first fifty six consecutive hours
Speaker 2: of his captivity. I tied him to the hospital bed
Speaker 2: he had surgery to treat three gunshot wounds. We shot him,
Speaker 2: the Pakistani shot him while he was trying to escape
Speaker 2: that night, and so I was so sleepy. I was
Speaker 2: afraid I was going to fall asleep and he was
Speaker 2: going to escape somehow. So I tore up a sheet,
Speaker 2: I tied him to the bed, and I'm just sitting
Speaker 2: there at the foot of the bed like this, just
Speaker 2: kind of staring at him for most of the fifty
Speaker 2: six hours. But one of the things that we confiscated
Speaker 2: that night in the raid was his diary, and so
Speaker 2: I started leafing through the diary and it made my
Speaker 2: hair stand up. Most of it was silly, Most of
Speaker 2: it was doodles. He was an accomplished sketch artist, Like
Speaker 2: I would pay money for some of the drawings that
Speaker 2: he did.
Speaker 3: It would have been funny if the doodles were like
Speaker 3: like a high school teenage girls did.
Speaker 2: Right right with hearts over the letter I and stuff
Speaker 2: like that. No terrorists with a heart of gold seriously misunderstood.
Speaker 2: He wrote a lot of poetry, much of it which
Speaker 2: was quite good. He wrote letters to his younger self,
Speaker 2: which I found fascinating. And this led to a split
Speaker 2: between the CIA and the FBI, where the FBI said
Speaker 2: he was a madman and the CIA said, no, he's
Speaker 2: he's extraordinarily intelligent. The CIA turned out to be correct
Speaker 2: on that he would write these letters to himself, like
Speaker 2: it was the twenty seven year old that was a beta,
Speaker 2: or the thirty year old of was a beta writing
Speaker 2: to the fourteen year old of was a beta, saying,
Speaker 2: treat our mother with respect. You were rude to her today.
Speaker 2: Don't whistle at those girls. You're a musclim Muslim, you
Speaker 2: shouldn't whistle at girls. You know, stuff like that. But
Speaker 2: what I also saw on the in the diary were
Speaker 2: three cell phone numbers, and they were to three members
Speaker 2: of the Saudi royal family. Why in God's name would
Speaker 2: someone that we believed at the time was the number
Speaker 2: three in al Qaeda He wasn't the number three, but
Speaker 2: he was a bad guy. He had established and staffed
Speaker 2: al Qaeda's two training camps in southern Afghanistan, as well
Speaker 2: as al Qaeda's safe house in Peshawar, the House of Martyrs.
Speaker 2: Why would he have the personal cell phone numbers of
Speaker 2: three Saudi princes. And so we went to the Saudis
Speaker 2: and we said take care of this, or we're going
Speaker 2: to take care of it, and you're not going to
Speaker 2: like the way we take care of it. The next thing,
Speaker 2: you know, one of these princes dies on the operating
Speaker 2: table during bariatric surgery. They're all fat pigs. The second
Speaker 2: prince is killed in a one car accident on the
Speaker 2: Riad to Jetta Highway, and the third prince goes camping
Speaker 2: in the desert and dies of third. So, yeah, that
Speaker 2: tells me that the last thing they wanted was for
Speaker 2: the CIA to snatch these guys and to start interrogating them,
Speaker 2: which then, of course led me to believe that the
Speaker 2: Saudi government was involved in nine to eleven.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean so many things point that way. We
Speaker 3: even had that admission, what was it, five or six
Speaker 3: years ago, right, they came out and said, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: we did classify what was the sixteen pages of Yeah.
Speaker 2: It turns out the twenty eight pages, yeah.
Speaker 3: Twenty Yeah, Saudi said to have a key role. Turns
Speaker 3: out which many people theorized and suspected and and that's
Speaker 3: our ally right, that's not a you know, terror state,
Speaker 3: but it's supposedly also one of the greatest.
Speaker 2: Funders, but it's a funder of terror.
Speaker 3: Right. Yeah, that again on the topic of Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 3: And I don't want to get too far afield, but
Speaker 3: just made me think of this. I remember reading recently
Speaker 3: that Kissinger back in the nineteen seventies had a very
Speaker 3: important role in restructuring how the petro dollar would would
Speaker 3: function in the world, and that there was an intentional
Speaker 3: shifting away from using US oil or native oil here
Speaker 3: to put us in reliance on foreign oil like Saudi's
Speaker 3: and others, to give us then an excuse to I thought,
Speaker 3: there's a really cunning, genius sort of conspiracy plot here,
Speaker 3: of a villain plan. So now that now we have
Speaker 3: an excuse for foreign policing because we're tied to the
Speaker 3: oil that we get from all these other countries. And
Speaker 3: we hear recently with Trump right that we've got to
Speaker 3: do all the phenol. We have to get the oil.
Speaker 2: We've got oil, We've got to take oil.
Speaker 3: We got to take the oil. Well, don't we have
Speaker 3: a lot of oil here? I thought Trump ran on that, right,
Speaker 3: We've got so much oil in an ocean of oil.
Speaker 3: But now we have to police the world over oil.
Speaker 3: Is it ap plausible theory that Kissinger and I've heard
Speaker 3: read via the Bilderberg meetings at that time that they
Speaker 3: sort of planned out the petro dollar as a excuse
Speaker 3: for future world police.
Speaker 2: I think that's exactly what happened. I think that's exactly
Speaker 2: what happened, and we're seeing, you know, still the effects today,
Speaker 2: fifty years after that policy was enacted. You know, I've
Speaker 2: got a friend, a former CIA friend who left the
Speaker 2: CIA and went into He's one of these genius engineers,
Speaker 2: and so he left the CIA and he went to
Speaker 2: work for one of the big oil companies, and he
Speaker 2: said something to me that was so interesting. He said,
Speaker 2: it's not cost effective to frack for oil if oil
Speaker 2: is at sixty dollars a barrel or lower. Okay, if
Speaker 2: it's over sixty, fracking is cost effective. It's profitable. Everybody's
Speaker 2: gonna want to do it. Okay, Well, oil is what
Speaker 2: one hundred and ten hundred and fifteen dollars a barrel
Speaker 2: right now, and we're fracking a little bit. But what
Speaker 2: are we doing with the fract oil. We're sending it
Speaker 2: to Japan. We sell all that oil to Japan. So
Speaker 2: when why would we export our own oil and import
Speaker 2: Middle Eastern oil? Because that's exactly what we do well.
Speaker 2: We do it to maintain that tie to the Middle East.
Speaker 2: And as much as I hate Henry Kissinger, and I
Speaker 2: really do. The butcher of Cyprus, the butcher of Chile,
Speaker 2: the butcher of Cambodia. I hate Henry Kissinger. He was
Speaker 2: telling us the truth when he said that this policy,
Speaker 2: as as awful as it may seem, as calculating and
Speaker 2: cunning as it may seem, it's a reality of American
Speaker 2: foreign policy. It really is. Yeah, And let's say so,
Speaker 2: if you don't mind, Jay, I feel for just to
Speaker 2: speak a minute about Venezuela. How does Venezuela fit in
Speaker 2: or not fit into this? Venezuela is different, it's separate. Venezuela.
Speaker 2: Venezuela's oil is is so dirty. It is so high
Speaker 2: in sulfur that it can only be refined at specialty
Speaker 2: refineries where they inject tons of chemicals to try to
Speaker 2: purify it. Even still, you can't purify it enough to
Speaker 2: turn it into gasoline. Right And these these refineries exist
Speaker 2: right now, for the most part, only in South Florida.
Speaker 2: The Chinese built one. Recently, the Indians built one. But
Speaker 2: for the most part, the only refineries that can handle
Speaker 2: this really dark, heavy oil are in Florida, and the
Speaker 2: oil is used only for home heating oil. We talk
Speaker 2: about oil and International Oil and OPEC, of which Venezuela
Speaker 2: is a member. We have to keep Venezuela sort of
Speaker 2: off to the side because it's a different issue from
Speaker 2: a foreign policy perspective.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a great point too, because I think people don't,
Speaker 3: we don't think about these different regions having very, very different,
Speaker 3: you know, ways that they fit into the global you
Speaker 3: know system. But I do want to ask you too
Speaker 3: about briefly here because you've had such a there's so
Speaker 3: many places we could go, You've had such an adventuresome life,
Speaker 3: and I've listened to you many times till the stories
Speaker 3: of when you were stationed in Greece and you were
Speaker 3: dealing with the left, And the first thing that came
Speaker 3: to my mind was in the case of these leftist
Speaker 3: organizations at one of which I think you'll try to
Speaker 3: have you unalived, shall we say, And feel free to
Speaker 3: rehearse that story if you'd like, because I think this
Speaker 3: audience may not have heard it. But the first thing
Speaker 3: that comes from my mind when I hear this kind
Speaker 3: of stuff is who funds these things? Like I've never
Speaker 3: even heard of this left Greek this organization that was
Speaker 3: radical left, and we always look to the money to
Speaker 3: see you know, who's funding who's pushing this? Who would
Speaker 3: fund such a thing? And why would it be Soviet?
Speaker 3: I mean, the Cold War is kind of coming to
Speaker 3: an end, Like who would be behind that?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I could talk about this for the
Speaker 2: next two hours. I'm gonna make it short. So the
Speaker 2: group you're talking about is called revolutionary Organization seventeen November. God,
Speaker 2: where do I even begin? Okay, let's talk about about
Speaker 2: I'll tell you the first time we ever heard of
Speaker 2: seventeen November. In October of nineteen seventy five, the CIA
Speaker 2: named a new station chief in Athens. His name was
Speaker 2: Richard Welch. Dick. Welch was a phil Helen. He was
Speaker 2: a love of all things Greek. He had a degree
Speaker 2: in the Classics. He spoke Ancient Greek, he spoke modern Greek.
Speaker 2: He got a master's degree in archaeology. This guy just loved, loved,
Speaker 2: loved everything Greece. And he's named CIA station chief in Athens.
Speaker 2: So he arrives six weeks later on December twenty third,
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five, he's invited to the US Ambassador's Christmas party.
Speaker 2: He and his wife go to the ambassador's Christmas party
Speaker 2: in their chauffeur driven car. They have a good time
Speaker 2: by all accounts, and at the end of the party
Speaker 2: they drive back to their house in a very close
Speaker 2: and very high end suburb of Athens called Siheko. These
Speaker 2: are the days before automatic door openers or gate openers,
Speaker 2: so the driver pulls up to the gate and gets
Speaker 2: out of the car to open the gate to drive
Speaker 2: into the proper. There is a car parked directly across
Speaker 2: the street. There are three men and a woman inside
Speaker 2: the car. We never identified the woman. Two of the
Speaker 2: men get out of the car and one of them
Speaker 2: shouts in Greek Richard Welch get out of the car.
Speaker 2: Dick gets out of the car, and Missus Welch gets
Speaker 2: out of the car. The driver runs for his life.
Speaker 2: One of the men says Richard Welch, you have been
Speaker 2: found guilty of crimes against the Greek people, and you've
Speaker 2: been sentenced to death, and then shoots him three times
Speaker 2: in the chest with a forty five caliber semi automatic
Speaker 2: handgun that became known as the Welch forty five. They
Speaker 2: killed eighteen more people with that same gun between nineteen
Speaker 2: seventy five and two thousand and two. They then got
Speaker 2: back in the car and drove away. The Greek police
Speaker 2: were so inept that the killers had to call the
Speaker 2: cops a week ago and say, you eighty, it's the
Speaker 2: getaway car we left abandoned at the intersection of this
Speaker 2: street and that street. Go get it. In the meantime,
Speaker 2: the killers wrote a manifesto. Now this became a theme.
Speaker 2: They would write a manifesto at almost every attack over
Speaker 2: the next twenty seven years. But this manifesto they sent
Speaker 2: to a sympathizer in Paris, and the sympathizer in Paris
Speaker 2: hand delivered it to the French philosopher Jean Paul Sartre.
Speaker 2: Sartre read it and said, what is this craziness? And
Speaker 2: he literally put it in a desk drawer and forgot
Speaker 2: about it. A year later, the former chief of the
Speaker 2: Greek National Police, a man named Malios. He had been
Speaker 2: the chief of the Greek National Police during the military dictatorship,
Speaker 2: and he was a deeply hated torturer. He would leave
Speaker 2: his apartment every single day at the same time and
Speaker 2: buy a newspaper and go to the coffee shop and
Speaker 2: drink coffee. And this one day in April of two thousand,
Speaker 2: I'm sorry. In April of nineteen seventy six, he came
Speaker 2: out of his apartment. There was a man and a
Speaker 2: woman there making out, and he told us later on
Speaker 2: his deathbed that he smiled when he saw them, and
Speaker 2: he thought to himself, young love in the spring. As
Speaker 2: soon as he walked past them, the man pulled out
Speaker 2: the Welch forty five and shot him three times in
Speaker 2: the back. He lived for two hours, and the description
Speaker 2: he gave of the shooter matched Missus Welch's description of
Speaker 2: the shooter in her husband's assassination. They sent another manifesto
Speaker 2: to Jean Paul Sartre, so Sartra receives it. Actually Sartre
Speaker 2: didn't receive it. Henri Levie what's his name, Bernard Henri Levie,
Speaker 2: who is today France's most famous philosopher and poet and
Speaker 2: was Sartra's assistant at the time. He said, wait a minute,
Speaker 2: we've received something like this before, and he found the
Speaker 2: original one in the desk, and then he sent them
Speaker 2: both to Liberacion magazine or newspaper. It's the leftist newspaper
Speaker 2: in Paris. They published them that put seventeen November on
Speaker 2: the map. Seventeen November was named after the date in
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four when there was a student uprising at
Speaker 2: the Athens Polytechnic University where the military dictatorship, in its
Speaker 2: final death throws, opened fire with tanks on unarmed students
Speaker 2: and to hear the students tell it, killed five hundred.
Speaker 2: To hear the fascist tell it, they killed three dozen.
Speaker 2: We'll never know. They destroyed most of the bodies. But
Speaker 2: that puts seventeen November on the map. And you ask
Speaker 2: a very very important question, where did they get the money.
Speaker 2: We just assumed in nineteen seventy five that these guys
Speaker 2: were tied to the KGB, but we had a long
Speaker 2: standing agreement with the KGB. You don't kill our guys
Speaker 2: and we don't kill your guys. We try to recruit
Speaker 2: each other's guys, but no killing. And the Russians came
Speaker 2: to us and they said, listen, this was not us.
Speaker 2: It just was not us. And then the Bulgarians proactively
Speaker 2: came to us and said, we promised this was not us,
Speaker 2: and we can tell you it was not the Soviets.
Speaker 2: We couldn't figure out who it was, so how did
Speaker 2: they get their money, how do they sell finance? They
Speaker 2: would rob banks and post offices. Now remember these were
Speaker 2: the days when everything was done in cash, everything, and
Speaker 2: they would just rob banks and post offices in broad daylight.
Speaker 2: And then they would raid police stations in the middle
Speaker 2: of the night, grabbed the handful of cops that were
Speaker 2: on duty, tie them up, hold them hostage, steal all
Speaker 2: of their weapons and all of their ammunition. And just
Speaker 2: to add insult to injury, there is a large military
Speaker 2: museum in Athens, right in the center of Athens. The
Speaker 2: Greeks are very proud of it. And in the nineteen
Speaker 2: eighties somebody who was a member of seventeen November went
Speaker 2: into the military museum and realized that none of the
Speaker 2: weapons on display had been deactivated. They were all live
Speaker 2: weapons on display, rocket launchers, machine guns. So they went
Speaker 2: one day, a group of four terrorists went just as
Speaker 2: the museum opened, took everybody hostage, and then just took
Speaker 2: all of these live weapons off the wall. And then
Speaker 2: a couple of months later they raided a military weapons
Speaker 2: depot in Ladisa in central Greece and stall all the
Speaker 2: ammunition needed for the weapons that they stole from the
Speaker 2: military museum, so they self financed, they self armed, and
Speaker 2: then there were specialty weapons that they somehow came into
Speaker 2: the possession of. And that's where I came in. I
Speaker 2: was able to identify analytically a connection between seventeen November
Speaker 2: and Carlos the Jackal. And if your viewers don't know
Speaker 2: who Carlos the Jackal was, he was the Osama bin
Speaker 2: Laden of the nineteen seventies and eighties. He was the
Speaker 2: most feared terrorist on the planet. He was a Venezuelan
Speaker 2: communist named Iliot Ramirez Sanchez, and he went by Carlos.
Speaker 2: The media dubbed him Carlos the Jackal, loosely based on
Speaker 2: the book that led to the movie The Day of
Speaker 2: the Jackal, and Carlos provided the group with the weapons
Speaker 2: that they needed that they couldn't steal. In two thousand,
Speaker 2: I was stationed in Greece from nineteen ninety eight to
Speaker 2: two thousand and my entire reason for being in Greece
Speaker 2: was to infiltrate and destroy seventeen November. We promised Missus
Speaker 2: Welch in nineteen seventy five we would find her husband's
Speaker 2: killers and we would bring them to justice. And we
Speaker 2: meant it. It took twenty seven years, but I took
Speaker 2: delivery of a fully armored level four armored BMW five forty.
Speaker 2: My next door neighbor was the newly arrived British Defense
Speaker 2: Attack Stephen Saunders, Brigadier General one star. I like Stephen
Speaker 2: a lot, but he was a media whore. Anytime he
Speaker 2: saw a camera, he would run right in front of
Speaker 2: it and offer up an interview and he would just
Speaker 2: loved being on TV. We happen to be invited to
Speaker 2: a cocktail party the night of the day that I
Speaker 2: took delivery of the of the new car, and I
Speaker 2: was standing with Stephen with the American Defense and the
Speaker 2: French Defense stache. And Stephen was making fun of me
Speaker 2: because of my new car. As I said, we lived
Speaker 2: next door to not next door, but our backyards abutted.
Speaker 2: And he says to me, you Americans, you're so paranoid
Speaker 2: about security. He said, this is an EU country, it's
Speaker 2: a NATO country. What are you so afraid of? And
Speaker 2: everybody starts to chuckle, and I said to him, you
Speaker 2: Brits live in a dream world if you think that
Speaker 2: because they have pretty beaches and palm trees that they're
Speaker 2: not going to kill you if they have the chance.
Speaker 2: Believe me, if they have the chance, they're going to
Speaker 2: kill you. And then we all laughed again. To make
Speaker 2: a long story short, two weeks later, they killed him,
Speaker 2: and they killed him in broad daylight, during the morning rush.
Speaker 2: They finally issued a manifesto several months afterwards in which
Speaker 2: they specifically said that they set out that morning to
Speaker 2: kill me, but that I was driving an armored car
Speaker 2: and they knew that I was armed, And it said,
Speaker 2: and so we elected to carry out the revolutionary sentence
Speaker 2: on the war criminals, Saunders.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 2: That killing. Everybody liked Stephen. That killing was what began
Speaker 2: to change public opinion. Seventeen November would attack. They killed
Speaker 2: the Turkish ambassador, the Turkish deputy ambassador, They killed the
Speaker 2: head of the Federal tax Office, They killed the governor
Speaker 2: of the Central Bank, they killed the Minister of Finance,
Speaker 2: they killed the Minister of Communications. But they were largely
Speaker 2: seen as Robin Hood right, Oh, taxes were raised. They
Speaker 2: set fire to six tax offices and then murder the
Speaker 2: head of the tax service. And people are like, oh, okay,
Speaker 2: well they're for the poor people. No, they're not for
Speaker 2: the poor people. It's an armed criminal gang, is all
Speaker 2: it is. So in two thousand and two, in April
Speaker 2: of two thousand and two, a man was walking in
Speaker 2: Paraeus with a paper bag like a grocery bag, carrying
Speaker 2: a bomb, and he was going to put the bomb
Speaker 2: underneath the car of a billionaire shipowner, and the bomb
Speaker 2: went off. It blew off both of his hands and
Speaker 2: blew out his right eye. And as he was bleeding
Speaker 2: to death, a policeman runs across the street takes off
Speaker 2: his own shirt to staunch the blood squirting out of
Speaker 2: his stumps, and the guy confesses to being seventeen November's
Speaker 2: chief bomber. He names all the members of seventeen November,
Speaker 2: and he gives the address of the safe house where
Speaker 2: all the weapons are stored. And then he survived, and
Speaker 2: so the Greeks were able to arrest all of them.
Speaker 2: The three most prominent members received sentences of one thy,
Speaker 2: seven hundred and sixty five years in prison. The only
Speaker 2: two things that the cops were never able to recover
Speaker 2: were the old school typewriter that they used to type
Speaker 2: the manifestos and the Welsh forty five. It's out there somewhere,
Speaker 2: but anyway, they were unusual in that the Soviet Union
Speaker 2: was far too liberal for them. They were old school Stalinists.
Speaker 2: They wanted Das to fall into line or face death,
Speaker 2: and they saw themselves as the ones to carry out
Speaker 2: that policy.
Speaker 3: I wanted to ask you about David Jackal because and
Speaker 3: this is something that I've only recently sort of got
Speaker 3: hipped to, and that's because there were some articles written
Speaker 3: recently that Candice Owens shared that kind of tied into
Speaker 3: the possibility of French foreign legion and this kind of stuff.
Speaker 3: I don't have any theory on that. I don't ascribe
Speaker 3: to all of her theories, but there was an interesting
Speaker 3: article written by a French analyst about the possibility that
Speaker 3: there are actual hit squads and they might be considered French,
Speaker 3: but they might not actually be French. They might actually
Speaker 3: be other Middle Eastern countries that are actually behind some
Speaker 3: of these hits.
Speaker 2: And I know, huh, they're French.
Speaker 3: Well, I don't doubt that. But what I'm saying is
Speaker 3: that there are people that theorized that that Israel had
Speaker 3: a role in the background of some of these French operations,
Speaker 3: not just banking, but also other things that are going
Speaker 3: on in France that not many people are very hip to.
Speaker 3: But I wanted to ask you about the situation with
Speaker 3: Day of the Jackal, because that, of course that story
Speaker 3: is about the Gal and I'm curious. So you're saying
Speaker 3: that Carlos the Jackal is the name came from that?
Speaker 3: Is that what you're saying that they ca.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a funny thing. It's one of these chicken
Speaker 2: or egg situations where Carlos was all most caught in
Speaker 2: a raid on his friend's apartment in Brussels. His friend
Speaker 2: was not a terrorist and didn't realize that Carlos, that
Speaker 2: his friend Iliach was Carlos, right, although he was not
Speaker 2: yet known as Carlos. Anyway, the cops raid the apartment,
Speaker 2: Carlos has already gone, and a French photojournalist took pictures
Speaker 2: of like every inch of the apartment, and it turned
Speaker 2: out that the Belgian guy was reading the book The
Speaker 2: Day of the Jackal and it was on the side table,
Speaker 2: and so the French journalist just decided to call this
Speaker 2: unnamed terrorist we didn't yet know it was Eliot Ramirez Sanchez,
Speaker 2: to call him the Jackal. And then it just so
Speaker 2: happened that a book that was next to the Day
Speaker 2: of the Jackal was written by a Spanish I forget
Speaker 2: his name now, but his first name was Carlos, and
Speaker 2: so this French reporter just made it up out of
Speaker 2: whole cloth, Carlos the Jackal, and then we learned later.
Speaker 2: We learned later Carlos was like, where did the fuck
Speaker 2: did this name come from? I don't like this name.
Speaker 2: Why are they calling me Carlos? And what's this jackal thing?
Speaker 2: Why are they calling me the Jackal? I'll tell you
Speaker 2: I met Carlos in two thousand. It took me over
Speaker 2: a year to get permission to see him, serving a
Speaker 2: life without pearl sentence in France for the murder of
Speaker 2: seven French policemen. I had. I had gone to see
Speaker 2: his ex wife, Magdalena cop in Germany. They share a daughter,
Speaker 2: and she dropped out of terrorism. She she had had
Speaker 2: enough and she just dropped out. She had done time
Speaker 2: in prison. She was like enough and she quit. So
Speaker 2: I begged her to write to Carlos and tell him
Speaker 2: that that I really did need to talk to him.
Speaker 2: I wasn't going to you know, I'm not trying to
Speaker 2: get him in trouble. I only want to know about
Speaker 2: the Greeks. And it took over a year, and then,
Speaker 2: of course, yeah, the French insisted that they had to
Speaker 2: be there. So I go to Paris, I meet up
Speaker 2: with the French. We take a train. The prison was like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, forty minutes outside of town. And we
Speaker 2: finally get into the prison to see Carlos and I said,
Speaker 2: I said, thank you for seeing me. I'm John Kiriaku.
Speaker 2: I'm from the Cia. We promised Missus Welch that we would,
Speaker 2: you know, find her husband's killers. It's been twenty five years,
Speaker 2: et cetera, et cetera. And he listened and he's nodding,
Speaker 2: and he's nodding, and I said, all I want to
Speaker 2: know is who were the Greeks. Just give us the
Speaker 2: names of the Greeks. Give us one name, just someone
Speaker 2: that would lead me to the killers. And he goes,
Speaker 2: fuck you, And then he just got up and walked
Speaker 2: away from the you know, one of those plexiglass things.
Speaker 2: He just got up and walked away, and that was
Speaker 2: the end of it. He never gave us anything. Two
Speaker 2: years later, it didn't matter, and he's still in in prison.
Speaker 2: He'll die in prison. He's well into his seventies, now unrepentant, unapologetic.
Speaker 2: This is a guy, for those of your viewers who
Speaker 2: don't know any of the background, this is a guy
Speaker 2: who kidnapped literally every oil minister from every OPEK country
Speaker 2: during an OPEC summit. There was no PEC summit taking
Speaker 2: place in Vienna, Austria. He and his gang raided the
Speaker 2: meeting site and they kidnapped every member of OPEK at
Speaker 2: the same time, and the Saudis paid him something like
Speaker 2: a billion dollars to let everybody go. It was Carlos
Speaker 2: that worked with Kadafi to set up these training camps
Speaker 2: in Libya where the PFLP, the PFLPGC, the DFLP, Abu Nidal,
Speaker 2: the ira Popular Revolutionary Struggle, they all sent their people
Speaker 2: there to be trained at these camps in the desert.
Speaker 2: Carlos was the money guy, and Carlo this was the
Speaker 2: weapons guy. Carlos was working with the Romanians and the Bulgarians.
Speaker 2: You know, they were producing gigantic amounts of weapons and
Speaker 2: ammunition and just selling them on the gray market. It
Speaker 2: was Carlos that had the relationship with the Eastern Europeans
Speaker 2: to buy the AK forty sevens and the hand grenades
Speaker 2: and the land mines and the bullets and then sell
Speaker 2: them to these groups through the Libyans. It was all
Speaker 2: very complicated and in my mind absolutely fascinating. You know,
Speaker 2: minus nine to eleven, I would have spent the rest
Speaker 2: of my career just working against these groups.
Speaker 3: That's that's what I find it fascinating too, because again,
Speaker 3: it seems rare, at least in my limited reading and research,
Speaker 3: that this type of a person is organic or alone,
Speaker 3: you know, weapons traffick or whatever. Terrorist person. There's usually networks,
Speaker 3: there's people behind me, there's money and power, right, So
Speaker 3: who's who? Is he just out for his own gain?
Speaker 3: Or was he a true believer in a kind of
Speaker 3: Leninist perspective?
Speaker 2: You know, for him it was a combination of pure
Speaker 2: Marxist ideology and money. You know. I'm going to tell
Speaker 2: you one other story about Carlos. I've spoken a number
Speaker 2: of times about a guy that I used to work
Speaker 2: with at the agency. Was a legendary contractor named Billy
Speaker 2: Waugh waug h Billy. Billy was one short of the
Speaker 2: US record. He had seventeen purple hearts from World War Two, Korea,
Speaker 2: and Vietnam. He was a stone cold killer, one of
Speaker 2: these guys that would go into a village in Vietnam
Speaker 2: and just mow down every living thing. So he was
Speaker 2: a longtime CIA contractor. He and I worked very closely together.
Speaker 2: It was actually just the two of us in the
Speaker 2: Middle East before nine to eleven. We did this long
Speaker 2: term operation together. But anyway, he told me the most
Speaker 2: fascinating story. The details in a biography about him that
Speaker 2: his niece wrote differ a little, but the core of
Speaker 2: the story is the same. The way he told it
Speaker 2: to me was thusie. He was assigned to the CIA
Speaker 2: station in Khartum, Soudan, and you know, it was one
Speaker 2: of those situations pre nine to eleven where you got
Speaker 2: to work seven days a week, but every once in
Speaker 2: a while, just say you don't go crazy, you have
Speaker 2: to take a day off and sleep in. So there's
Speaker 2: one day he and another guy from the station go
Speaker 2: to the vegetable market just to buy some vegetables, and
Speaker 2: he said, he's there buying vegetables and he looks over
Speaker 2: and he sees the only other white man that he
Speaker 2: ever saw in Khartoum. And he's looking at this white
Speaker 2: guy in the vegetable market and he says to his buddy,
Speaker 2: that's Carlos the Jackal, and his friend says, the fuck
Speaker 2: out of here. He said, I'm telling you that's Carlos
Speaker 2: the Jackal, and then Carlos kind of got away in
Speaker 2: the crowd. They run back to the station. Koepfer Black
Speaker 2: who became the director of counter Terrorism and then later
Speaker 2: became Ambassador koe for Black and the chairman of Blackwater
Speaker 2: after that. Koefer was the station chief at the time,
Speaker 2: and Billy says he ran into Kofer's office. Cooefer's on
Speaker 2: an elliptical machine in the office and he says, Kofer,
Speaker 2: I just came from the vegetable market and I saw
Speaker 2: Carlos the Jackal, and Cooepher says, get the fuck out
Speaker 2: of here, Carlos the Jackal. What in the world would
Speaker 2: Carlos be doing in Sudan of all places. You're nuts,
Speaker 2: he said, I'm telling you it was Carlos. So he says, well,
Speaker 2: we can't just cable headquarters and say Carlos the Jackals
Speaker 2: in cartoon. We need proof. You got to get a
Speaker 2: picture of him. Billy went back to the vegetable market
Speaker 2: every single day for a month, and then he saw
Speaker 2: him again. So what they did is they paid these
Speaker 2: two Soudanese guys to get into a fist fight. And
Speaker 2: you know in Africa and the Middle East, fighting is
Speaker 2: very very rare. So two guys start duking it out,
Speaker 2: a big circle forms around them. Everybody wants to get
Speaker 2: a look, and so that's what happens, and Carlos, kind
Speaker 2: of a little guy, he runs over to get a look,
Speaker 2: and he's kind of creating his neck to see, you know,
Speaker 2: who's fighting, what's going on, And Billy's there just going
Speaker 2: click click click click click click click click click click click.
Speaker 2: They send the film back to headquarters and they said,
Speaker 2: oh my god, it's Carlos the Jackal. But he had
Speaker 2: the presence of mind after the fight to follow Carlos
Speaker 2: discreetly to his house, so they were able to identify
Speaker 2: the house. They initiated an operation where Carlos was deemed
Speaker 2: was made to be unconscious temporarily, and when Carlos woke up,
Speaker 2: he was on a French military plane on the way
Speaker 2: to Paris and he's been he's been in prison ever since.
Speaker 3: I mean, these stories are awesome. I love hearing these
Speaker 3: kind of stories, and they're not told enough on that point,
Speaker 3: and again this is for the sake of the audience,
Speaker 3: and I'd like to see what you think about this now,
Speaker 3: reflecting back to your younger days. Why does the US
Speaker 3: care what an organization of leftists are doing in Greece?
Speaker 3: Why are you there in Greece? You know you're Greek,
Speaker 3: But I'm saying, we wouldn't.
Speaker 2: Have cared had they not been murdering Americans. They killed
Speaker 2: the c I station chief. They killed two US defense attaches,
Speaker 2: Bill Norden and George Santis. Bill Norden. The bomb that
Speaker 2: killed that they used to kill Bill norde was so
Speaker 2: big that we found Nordine's head on the roof of
Speaker 2: the next door neighbor's house. They meant business. They shot
Speaker 2: and gravely wounded the US DEA rep in the embassy.
Speaker 2: They shot and killed a hapless Air Force technical sergeant,
Speaker 2: an African American guy named Ron Stewart. He was just
Speaker 2: doing his laundry. They shot him and killed him in
Speaker 2: the laundry room of his apartment building. And the Greek
Speaker 2: public hated that too because he was black. They're like,
Speaker 2: come on, this man's oppressed in his own country, and
Speaker 2: that's the guy that you kill. So it was because
Speaker 2: they were actively targeting Americans that we went after them
Speaker 2: like we did.
Speaker 3: But I guess to think about the Cold War setting.
Speaker 3: I now, this is a kind of This may sound
Speaker 3: like a stupid question, but my context with this question
Speaker 3: is not stupidity. If I read say Brazenski, right, Brezenski
Speaker 3: in between two ages, He's got this footnote where he
Speaker 3: talks about Professor Anthony Sutton, and he quotes Sutton about
Speaker 3: the build up of the Soviet Union. And we find
Speaker 3: other references here and there in literature to certain figures
Speaker 3: that might have played or attempted to play both sides
Speaker 3: during the Cold War. We think about Robert Maxwell, we
Speaker 3: think about an arm and Hammer, we think about some
Speaker 3: people have theorized Lord Victor Rothschaw was not just British intelligence,
Speaker 3: but might have also been passing intelligence to the Soviets.
Speaker 2: And on the other side, Nikolai Chosku.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there seems to be quite a few instances where
Speaker 3: we're fighting this enemy that's also aided and propped up
Speaker 3: in many cases. And perhaps the Cold War, according to
Speaker 3: say doctor Quigley, was a bit exaggerated, right. In other words,
Speaker 3: the first National security the memorandum that kicks off the
Speaker 3: Cold War that Stalin is building up. Is it exaggerated
Speaker 3: or is applausible that the Cold War is real, but
Speaker 3: also at a certain level, perhaps desired.
Speaker 2: Oh, I think you've hit it on the head. I
Speaker 2: think that's exactly what the case was. Yeah. Sure, you know,
Speaker 2: historically here in the United States, Jay, we've always needed
Speaker 2: anism to be opposed to. You know, in the in
Speaker 2: the nineteen teens, it was anarchism, and then it was communism,
Speaker 2: and then it was socialism, and later on it became Islamism.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's always something that we need to rally against.
Speaker 2: But at the same time, that's how you know, the
Speaker 2: deep state is able to justify its budgets. This isn't
Speaker 2: anything that's new. It's been going on for more than
Speaker 2: a century. Sure, you have to rally Americans against something, you.
Speaker 3: Know, it's like smelly Butler said a long time ago,
Speaker 3: wars racket.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: It would seem to me as well that World War
Speaker 3: One and World War Two, although they're obviously tragedies or
Speaker 3: serious problems with ideologies. But again, it's almost like there's
Speaker 3: a dialectical control where you want to have the opposition
Speaker 3: to justify the existence. We just saw this for example
Speaker 3: this week or last week. Excuse me, with the case
Speaker 3: that they're going to put against the SBLC of you know,
Speaker 3: sending significant amounts of money to people heading up these
Speaker 3: obviously fake cutout groups, the ridiculous groups, but also the
Speaker 3: head of the guy, you know, the Unite the Right
Speaker 3: guy at Charlottesville that I think many of us thought,
Speaker 3: even at the time, this is kind of a silly,
Speaker 3: kind of honey trap type of situation, and it would
Speaker 3: be really foolish, I think, to be involved in that
Speaker 3: kind of stuff, and perhaps even similar situations with J six,
Speaker 3: although I don't think that's come up yet in the
Speaker 3: case of SBLC, but a similar kind of template of fomenting,
Speaker 3: hyping up, causing funding the opposition in not every case,
Speaker 3: but in many cases. And that's why think, you know,
Speaker 3: not many people really talk about this in regard to
Speaker 3: the Cold War, that we might have had very wealthy
Speaker 3: people in the West and perhaps banking elites who wanted
Speaker 3: to put money into communism, socialism, and perhaps even fascism too.
Speaker 3: According to Sutton, because as you said, it justifies a
Speaker 3: lot of what we do, and there's a lot of
Speaker 3: resource extraction. There's a lot of geopolitical tactical you know,
Speaker 3: bases that can be set up and you exposed by
Speaker 3: the way. I want to say, maybe I'm not right
Speaker 3: about this, but I remember years ago in the two thousands,
Speaker 3: when I was trying to really study all of this
Speaker 3: stuff in depth. I remember seeing all of a sudden
Speaker 3: articles popping up maybe two thousand and eight, nine, ten, eleven,
Speaker 3: Cia black sites exposed. They're in the new Suddenly we've
Speaker 3: got this place in Romania, this black site. I think
Speaker 3: people probably thought that these things existed, but then suddenly
Speaker 3: we knew that they did exist. And you called a
Speaker 3: lot of that out. That's why you got persecuted. Could
Speaker 3: you explain, perhaps to those that are not familiar with
Speaker 3: your story. Well, and I think you're a hero for
Speaker 3: what you did. Why, yeah, why why call this out?
Speaker 3: Why are we doing this? What's the justification from the
Speaker 3: establishment's perspective.
Speaker 2: Oh, the justification from the establishment's perspective was that we
Speaker 2: needed to do literally everything to protect Americans, even if
Speaker 2: what we were doing broke the law. And my position
Speaker 2: was we're either going to be a nation of laws.
Speaker 3: Or we're not.
Speaker 2: We can't be both. You can't, you know, Ronald Reagan
Speaker 2: called the United States a shining city on a hill,
Speaker 2: a beacon of hope for human rights and civil rights
Speaker 2: and civil liberties. I want that to be true. And
Speaker 2: so you can't be that shining city on a hill
Speaker 2: and have a torture program and a secret prison program
Speaker 2: and an illegal rendition program and torture people to death
Speaker 2: and then just dig a ditch next to the torture
Speaker 2: chamber and dump their body in the ditch and then
Speaker 2: talk about how you support human rights. So we're gonna
Speaker 2: have to either pick one or the other. And I
Speaker 2: came down on the side of law and order. I mean,
Speaker 2: I hate to sound like an ideologue, but I came
Speaker 2: down the side of, you know, the rule of law.
Speaker 2: There was a I blew the whistle on the CIA's
Speaker 2: torture program in December of two thousand and seven, and
Speaker 2: I said three things. I said the CIA was torturing
Speaker 2: its prisoners, that torture was official US government policy, and
Speaker 2: that the policy had been personally approved by the President.
Speaker 2: And I was prosecuted for that. I wish that I
Speaker 2: had blown the whistle on the secret prison program. There
Speaker 2: was a woman, she was a a contemporary mind at
Speaker 2: the agency, and I respected her deeply. She swears that
Speaker 2: she was not the one who blew the whistle, so
Speaker 2: I won't use her name. But she was working at
Speaker 2: the White House right after, right around the time I
Speaker 2: got arrested, and she was escorted out of the White
Speaker 2: House by the Secret Service, and they took her badge
Speaker 2: and told her never to come back, and then she
Speaker 2: was forcibly retired from the CIA. They said they leaked
Speaker 2: that she had blown the whistle on the well. They
Speaker 2: didn't say blow the whistle, that she had leaked information
Speaker 2: about the existence of the secret prisons. She swore that
Speaker 2: it wasn't her, and in private conversations she swore to
Speaker 2: me that it wasn't her. And I said, well, if
Speaker 2: it was you, then you are one of the great
Speaker 2: heroes of the early part of the twenty first century,
Speaker 2: And she swore it wasn't her. But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I was just one of those guys that believed that
Speaker 2: we were the good guys, and if we're the good guys,
Speaker 2: then we have to act like the good guys. If
Speaker 2: you want to be for torture, you can be for torture,
Speaker 2: but you have to change the law. You can't just
Speaker 2: pretend that the law doesn't exist, or that because you're
Speaker 2: the good guy, it doesn't exist for you, that nobody
Speaker 2: else can torture but you can. And so I said, no,
Speaker 2: enough is enough, And I said something.
Speaker 3: I've heard you and many others, and I think it
Speaker 3: was you. I don't want to misquote if it wasn't you.
Speaker 3: But this is often said that, you know, when people say, well,
Speaker 3: what is esponas what are we doing in all these
Speaker 3: other countries, and the answer is usually given something like
Speaker 3: we are doing illegal activities in other countries legally or
Speaker 3: something like that. Yeah, how do you how do you
Speaker 3: balance as you're say, being trained and going into this
Speaker 3: world the idea on the one hand that there's all
Speaker 3: these legalities, which you mentioned quite often in interviews. You mentioned,
Speaker 3: for example, Tucker that you know certain people in the
Speaker 3: agency couldn't have public support for this or that candidate
Speaker 3: Bob Dole or whoever. But at the same time, we've
Speaker 3: got this situation where we've got to go in other
Speaker 3: countries and do illegal things under the cover of legality.
Speaker 3: How do you balance that as you're going through that
Speaker 3: and then make the sort of conscious decision to say, well,
Speaker 3: in this case, now the torture program is I'm not
Speaker 3: defending it. I'm just saying, like, I'm curious as to
Speaker 3: your process as you're working through these issues.
Speaker 2: You go into a job like that really believing that
Speaker 2: you're the good guys. You really believe it, and you
Speaker 2: understand from your very first day that your job is
Speaker 2: to break the laws of foreign countries, not to break
Speaker 2: the laws of the United States. That is forbidden. I
Speaker 2: remember my one of my early bosses telling me, don't
Speaker 2: ever lie to finance, medical, or security. They can ruin
Speaker 2: your life. Don't ever lie to a judge. And he said,
Speaker 2: and don't ever lie to me. Everybody else you can
Speaker 2: lie to everybody's lying all day long. You know the
Speaker 2: old cliche, how do you know when a CIA officer
Speaker 2: is lying, his lips are moving. So yeah, I believe that.
Speaker 2: You know, we go overseas and we lie, we commit espionage,
Speaker 2: We convince other people to commit espionage or to convince
Speaker 2: it to commit treason for us, because we're the good guys.
Speaker 2: But then when we're violating the Federal Torture Act of
Speaker 2: nineteen forty six, when re violating the United Nations Convention
Speaker 2: against Torture, which we wrote and has the force of
Speaker 2: law because it was ratified by the United States Senate.
Speaker 2: Nobody ever said we could violate the law in the
Speaker 2: United States. You know, if I go overseas I'm going
Speaker 2: to use nineteen forty nine as an example. If I
Speaker 2: go overseas and I receive a cable saying, hey, listen,
Speaker 2: the polls say that the Communists are going to win
Speaker 2: the Italian election. So steal the election for the Conservatives.
Speaker 2: I'd say, okay, And then I spend one hundred and
Speaker 2: fifty thousand dollars recruiting journalists and planting stories, and then
Speaker 2: what do you know, the Communists lose. Well, I would
Speaker 2: sleep very well that night because I'm the good guy
Speaker 2: and the Communists are the bad guys. And so I
Speaker 2: did what my job is. But if the order is
Speaker 2: to overthrow the American government or to influence an American
Speaker 2: election or torture someone in violation of American law, absolutely never, never,
Speaker 2: because then we're not the good guy anymore. Like did
Speaker 2: we learn nothing over the course of all these decades?
Speaker 2: Did we learn nothing from Watergate? For example? Nothing from
Speaker 2: Iran Contra? So you got to put your foot down.
Speaker 3: You know, you often hear from establishment types when this
Speaker 3: topic is brought up. Well, if we don't, they will.
Speaker 3: I remember reading, right, I remember reading decades ago, or
Speaker 3: excuse me, a book written decades ago. I think it
Speaker 3: was John Marx's book about the Mentoring Candidate and MK Ultra,
Speaker 3: and the argument was made at that time, if we
Speaker 3: do not engage in these testing experimentation projects, the Soviets will.
Speaker 3: If we don't do this, they will do you find
Speaker 3: that to be a flimsy justification and why.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's flimsy. Oh my god. Where should we even
Speaker 2: start with MK Ultra and the sub the sub operations
Speaker 2: of MK Ultra, MK Chickwit and MK whatever it was
Speaker 2: called night Rider or whatever it was called. I can't remember.
Speaker 2: There were like six of them. Imagine being in a
Speaker 2: meeting at the CIA and say, listen, there's this scientist
Speaker 2: in Switzerland and he just developed this thing called LSD
Speaker 2: and it does crazy shit. And we've heard that the
Speaker 2: Russians are developing expertise in mind control and ESP and
Speaker 2: what they called remote viewing and all this silliness that
Speaker 2: never came to pass. So we got to do the
Speaker 2: same thing. Because the Russians are doing it. In fact,
Speaker 2: the Russians weren't doing it. The Chinese were doing it,
Speaker 2: but we didn't have sources in China at the time.
Speaker 2: So you're in this meeting and a determination is made
Speaker 2: that yes.
Speaker 3: We're going to do this.
Speaker 2: We're going to call it MK Ultra. And what we're
Speaker 2: going to do is we're going to experiment on American
Speaker 2: citizens and we're never going to tell them we're experimenting
Speaker 2: on them. Better yet, let's start by experimenting on our
Speaker 2: own employees. And so they start dosing their own CIA
Speaker 2: employees with LSD. People are jumping out of windows and
Speaker 2: off of balconies, and they're like, oh, no, we shouldn't
Speaker 2: do it on our own people. Let's just do it
Speaker 2: in let's say San Francisco. And then they go to
Speaker 2: San Francisco and they did a whole bunch of horrible
Speaker 2: illegal shit in San Francisco, things like they recruited an
Speaker 2: army of prostitutes, and they set up a safe house
Speaker 2: in San Francisco and they said, go out and pick
Speaker 2: up a date, bring him back to the safe house.
Speaker 2: We're going to dose them with LSD and then we're
Speaker 2: going to see if he'll give us his most deeply
Speaker 2: held secrets under the LSD. All it did was it
Speaker 2: just made people crazy. Then they said, you know what,
Speaker 2: maybe we should do something different. We should develop a germ.
Speaker 2: Develop a germ and will just release it into the
Speaker 2: air and see if it makes people sick. So they
Speaker 2: developed this germ. They waited until an unusually foggy day
Speaker 2: in San Francisco, and then they just drive around town
Speaker 2: in these pickup trucks with pipes, releasing the germ into
Speaker 2: the fog. They knew it was successful when a week later,
Speaker 2: eleven people had gone to hospital emergency rooms with this
Speaker 2: really rare upper respiratory infection that we coused. Then they
Speaker 2: decided what it would be like. They wanted to know
Speaker 2: what it would be like if they could make like
Speaker 2: everybody in a town crazy, And so they put LSD
Speaker 2: in the flower that was supplied to the only bakery
Speaker 2: in a little village in France. The hapless baker, who
Speaker 2: had no idea that the flower was full of LSD,
Speaker 2: made bread that day like he did every day, sold
Speaker 2: the bread to everybody in the village. Everybody in the
Speaker 2: village went nuts. There's even a Wikipedia page about this
Speaker 2: that's the CIA. All of that was illegal. Now, this
Speaker 2: was also very very secret, top secret until nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 2: The Church Committee on Capitol Hill, the Church Committee on
Speaker 2: the Senate side, and the Pike Committee on the House side,
Speaker 2: developed this information and they called the CIA's leadership to
Speaker 2: come and testify under oath in public hearings. M k
Speaker 2: Ultra was outed, and the Director of Central Intelligence, Dick Helms,
Speaker 2: Richard Helmes, was specifically told by Senator Church, don't destroy
Speaker 2: the documents. He went back to the agency and told
Speaker 2: them destroy all the doc documents. They destroyed eighty five
Speaker 2: percent of the documents on mk ULTRA. So what we
Speaker 2: know today about m k Eltra comes from the fifteen
Speaker 2: percent of the documents that survived the giant, you know, destruction.
Speaker 2: And that's why we don't have answers to so many
Speaker 2: of these questions. Dick Helms was held in contempt of
Speaker 2: Congress and he was fined a few hundred dollars. And
Speaker 2: then when he got back to the agency after having
Speaker 2: taken a plea and having been fined, there was a
Speaker 2: parade of CIA employees standing in the hallway leading to
Speaker 2: his office, each one throwing in cash into a hat
Speaker 2: to pay his fine. They all looked out for each other.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems like, I mean, I don't want to
Speaker 3: say strictly speakin of cult, but somebody will have written
Speaker 3: about it as if it's the quote cult of Intelligence,
Speaker 3: I guess the Victor Marquetti book or maybe somebody else,
Speaker 3: but the idea being then that you know, you're sort
Speaker 3: of bound to almost like a kind of a quasi
Speaker 3: secret society. Perhaps maybe that's an exaggeration, but yeah, briefly
Speaker 3: a little detour here because I want to I have
Speaker 3: not heard you. You probably have comment that I just
Speaker 3: haven't heard it yet. You know, lately the government is
Speaker 3: seeming to give a nod at many levels to so
Speaker 3: called aliens and UFOs. I personally do not believe in aliens,
Speaker 3: but we do have a lot of bizarre stories and
Speaker 3: instances and advanced technology that seems to perhaps mirror mimic
Speaker 3: some of these UFO phenomena. I'm curious at what you
Speaker 3: think about that, because when I hear about aliens and
Speaker 3: UFOs and these stories, there could be something speritial going on,
Speaker 3: for sure, but it also reminds me of what happens
Speaker 3: if you have a bad LSD trip. So yeah, And
Speaker 3: on that topic of mk Ultra, it makes me wonder
Speaker 3: if you know, there couldn't be And I think there's
Speaker 3: definitely a you know, a deep state component to the
Speaker 3: UFO alien phenomenon, but also specifically in the descriptions of
Speaker 3: what people go through and how they describe these experiences.
Speaker 3: Do you think that there's any likelihood that this is
Speaker 3: sort of a propagated, intentional perhaps mythology or idea that's
Speaker 3: being seated or planted that we are now under some
Speaker 3: sort of a you know, alien attack. Maybe you think
Speaker 3: that the phenomena is real. I don't know your view.
Speaker 3: Could there be an mk Ultra I know it's defunct,
Speaker 3: but something akin to that that overlaps with the UFO
Speaker 3: alien phenomenon.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's absolutely possible. You know. I have to admit
Speaker 2: I'm of two minds on this issue. On the one hand,
Speaker 2: I long believed that these sightings that people have are
Speaker 2: largely explainable, and when they're not explainable, there's I think
Speaker 2: a likelihood that it's some kind of experimental technology. You know,
Speaker 2: DARPA is working twenty years ahead of everybody else, and
Speaker 2: it's probably some top secret you know thing. On my
Speaker 2: very first day at the CIA, I had lunch with
Speaker 2: my new boss and I said, half jokingly, so where
Speaker 2: are the aliens? And he laughed and he said that
Speaker 2: is the first question that every single one of us
Speaker 2: has on his first day. And I said, so, what's
Speaker 2: the answer. And he said, we don't do any of
Speaker 2: that stuff. It's all at the Pentagon. He said, I
Speaker 2: have no idea what they are where they are. Nobody
Speaker 2: here does. It's all at the Pentagon. With that said,
Speaker 2: I've told this story before, but I'll repeat it. When
Speaker 2: I was in high school, my mom and dad bought
Speaker 2: a restaurant in Sharon, Pennsylvania. We lived in Newcastle, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 2: so they're about fifteen miles apart. And to go from
Speaker 2: Newcastle to Sharon you have to go through Amish Country,
Speaker 2: and the Amish don't use electricity, so it's very, very dark.
Speaker 2: One Friday night, my dad and I left the house
Speaker 2: because we were working midnight shift. We always work midnight
Speaker 2: shift on Fridays and Saturdays. And we're driving through Amish
Speaker 2: Country and there is this brilliant, like blinding flash of
Speaker 2: white light, and then there's a second flash, and then
Speaker 2: a third flash. And we're both looking up at this thing,
Speaker 2: like what is that? And then this orange trapezoid lights
Speaker 2: up and it's just hovering about fifteen hundred feet off
Speaker 2: the ground in the shape of, I hate to say it,
Speaker 2: in the shape of a saucer. And I said, what
Speaker 2: is that? My dad pulls the car over, we get
Speaker 2: out of the car. We're standing there staring at this thing.
Speaker 2: A guy pulls up behind us, gets out of his
Speaker 2: car and he goes, what is that? And my dad said,
Speaker 2: I don't know, And then it goes at this fantastic
Speaker 2: speed that just defies defied the laws of physics, never
Speaker 2: made any sound. We stood there for at least another
Speaker 2: thirty seconds, thinking is it going to come back or what?
Speaker 2: I don't know. So we get back in the car
Speaker 2: and I said to him, mind you, I was seventeen
Speaker 2: at the time, so I didn't know any better. I said, so,
Speaker 2: should we like call somebody, should we call the cops
Speaker 2: or something? And he said, and say, what we saw
Speaker 2: a flying saucer and it flew away. He said, people
Speaker 2: are going to think we're insane. And so the only
Speaker 2: person I told was my mom The next day, well
Speaker 2: years later, like not years later, A couple of years later,
Speaker 2: I come to school here in Washington. I had a
Speaker 2: cousin who was an fifteen pilot, and I always looked
Speaker 2: up to him because he was older than me, and
Speaker 2: you know, he's a pilot and he's so cool. And
Speaker 2: I said to him, hey, listen, my dad and I
Speaker 2: saw this crazy thing once a couple of years ago,
Speaker 2: and I told him and he said, oh, listen, he said,
Speaker 2: every one of us at the Air Force, he said,
Speaker 2: we all see shit like that all the time. And
Speaker 2: sometimes they come up out of the water off the
Speaker 2: coast of Norfolk. I said, what are they? He said,
Speaker 2: I don't know, he said, but they very well could
Speaker 2: be ours. It's just that, he said, I'm not cleared
Speaker 2: to know what it is. I don't know what the
Speaker 2: heck it is. I said, well, what do you do
Speaker 2: when you see something like that? He said, We fill
Speaker 2: out a form, we send it to the Pentagon, and
Speaker 2: nobody ever hears about it again. So I don't know.
Speaker 2: I've never seen, you know, little Green Man or anything
Speaker 2: like that. I wondered too, if, on the one hand,
Speaker 2: I lean in the direction of some kind of futuristic
Speaker 2: advanced technology, right that's being experimented with. On the other hand,
Speaker 2: I wonder if, let's say it is something extra terrestrial,
Speaker 2: the government all these years hasn't wanted to panic us. Okay,
Speaker 2: well guess what now. All this video has been leaked
Speaker 2: from the Pentagon over the last five years and nobody cares,
Speaker 2: and there hasn't been any panic, So why not just
Speaker 2: come out with it now and tell us what it is?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Interesting? Yeah, I feel very very similarly about that topic.
Speaker 3: I do want to shiftgres a little bit because there's
Speaker 3: so many hot topics. I do want your take on
Speaker 3: a lot of them are Unfortunately, I know this is selfish,
Speaker 3: but kind of my pet thoughts, and that's why I
Speaker 3: want to bounce my theories and my thoughts off of you.
Speaker 3: Gordon Thomas wrote a fascinating book about Masade called Gideon
Speaker 3: Spies many years ago, who's a journalist, and several chapters
Speaker 3: are related to the Vatican and the Cold War and
Speaker 3: the Particularly the chapter on John Paul the Second was
Speaker 3: interesting because there were significant advancements that Israel was able
Speaker 3: to achieve in terms of recognition and influence through John
Speaker 3: Paul the Second. On record, I don't think that's anything
Speaker 3: too controversial. There's a chapter he discussed, for example, the
Speaker 3: Vatican becoming hip to the Masaude wanting to and trying
Speaker 3: to bug the Vatican. And then I noticed, you know,
Speaker 3: it's if you look at the dates. Not too long
Speaker 3: after that, John Paul the Second did recognize the nation
Speaker 3: state of Israel as a political entity, which the Vatican
Speaker 3: had not done for many decades, and that to me
Speaker 3: is a window into the possibility of a backdoor connection
Speaker 3: or influence there. That might be pretty significant geopolitically speaking,
Speaker 3: because you do have the Roman Catholic Church taking some
Speaker 3: pretty significant advances in terms of changing their attitudes towards
Speaker 3: the Nation sid of Israel, rebidding Judaism in the last
Speaker 3: several decades post Vatican too. I'm curious to what degree
Speaker 3: do you think that is a window into a a
Speaker 3: influenced campaign. Is it significant? Do you think that's plausible?
Speaker 3: And also, uh, there also seems to be significant admissions
Speaker 3: in that book and other books as well related to
Speaker 3: Gladio that the CIA had a really close connection and
Speaker 3: perhaps even more than a connection, perhaps people on the
Speaker 3: hook to what the CIA wanted throughout the Cold War
Speaker 3: in regards to the Vatican. Yeah, was that a trap
Speaker 3: to basically sort of have soft power influence through the Vatican.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was, it was. That was always my understanding. Yes,
Speaker 2: there were old timers at the at the Agency when
Speaker 2: I first joined who took credit for making John Paul
Speaker 2: the second Pope that.
Speaker 3: This was what I've heard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, this was a political decision from the very beginning.
Speaker 2: It was done to weaken the Soviet Union. They knew
Speaker 2: that at having a pope from from Poland, which was
Speaker 2: a Soviet satellite state at the time.
Speaker 3: Would.
Speaker 2: Would reap untold benefits because it would distract the Soviets.
Speaker 2: And then at exactly the same time, the Solidarity movement
Speaker 2: took root in beginning in the Gadansk shipyard in Poland.
Speaker 2: And so there was no downside for the West to
Speaker 2: John Paul being pope. If anything, this was like a
Speaker 2: gift and uh and and the recognition of israel I
Speaker 2: remember how controversial that was at the time. That was
Speaker 2: that was just like an extra added freebie, you know
Speaker 2: that that we got on top of everything that we
Speaker 2: got with the Soviets. So yeah, I think I think
Speaker 2: that that was the case. John Paul, go ahead, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: go ahead, I.
Speaker 3: Was just going to say, I remember, you know, a
Speaker 3: lot of the text will point to, you know, a
Speaker 3: pretty close relationship with Henry Kissinger, even going back to
Speaker 3: Paul the Six having a very close religion there, as
Speaker 3: well as William Casey. I think that you had this
Speaker 3: period where they were pretty hardcore traditional Catholic people in
Speaker 3: the CIA, like Casey and others known as Templars, that
Speaker 3: were very committed to to you know, that that alliance.
Speaker 3: And I just I suspect and I wonder. I know
Speaker 3: that Leo has has opposed you know, Trump in recent months.
Speaker 3: And then there was this meeting where Cardinal Christoph back
Speaker 3: in January, was at you know, the White House, and
Speaker 3: there was these tense words supposedly said, and there's this
Speaker 3: story that they reminded Cardinal Christophe and Leo of the
Speaker 3: Avigne and papacy and the power that the state can have.
Speaker 3: And I'm just to me, I just thought that was
Speaker 3: a fascinating window into perhaps what's going on with not
Speaker 3: just the deep State, but the deep Church and perhaps
Speaker 3: an influenza in that structure.
Speaker 2: And you know, there was a book published recently in
Speaker 2: the last i'm gonna say year or two, and I
Speaker 2: apologize that I don't remember the title talking about the
Speaker 2: joint CIA Vatican operation to publish Doctor Javago.
Speaker 3: And to make it Availa, I didn't even know.
Speaker 2: Does you say this, yeah, make it available to Soviet
Speaker 2: citizens at the International Book Fair in Brussels in like
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one or whatever whatever it was, where you
Speaker 2: had even the KGB minders who had accompanied this delegation
Speaker 2: of Soviet citizens to the International Book Fair themselves were
Speaker 2: bringing copies of Doctor Javago back to the Soviet Union.
Speaker 2: And it's funny. It was a book that that nobody
Speaker 2: really paid any attention to until the Cold War got
Speaker 2: really hot, and then somebody at the CIA said, we've
Speaker 2: got to smuggle this into the Soviet Union. How do
Speaker 2: you do that? Well, we can do it by asking
Speaker 2: the Vatican to do it for us, you know. So
Speaker 2: the Russians were all over the American book tent at
Speaker 2: the International Book Fair, not paying any attention at all
Speaker 2: to the Vatican book tent, And every time a Soviet
Speaker 2: citizen would come to the Vatican tent, they'd say, hey,
Speaker 2: you want to go in the back room. There's a
Speaker 2: back room. You're going to want to go back there,
Speaker 2: And then they had all these copies of Doctor Zevago
Speaker 2: in Russian. It got to the point where people would
Speaker 2: would tear out like ten pages at a time and
Speaker 2: just tape them around their legs and then just you know,
Speaker 2: re enter the Soviet Union with the book taped around
Speaker 2: their legs, ten pages at a time, collate the pages again,
Speaker 2: and then pass it around to their friends.
Speaker 3: Now I know, I think I have an idea as
Speaker 3: to why. And for those that don't know, I did
Speaker 3: write a book and two other books after that, Esoteric Hollywood,
Speaker 3: which largely deals with propaganda in films and in Hollywood
Speaker 3: and in fiction. But for those that might not know
Speaker 3: in the audience, and you've talked about this in many interviews, John,
Speaker 3: which is the interest that the CIA and other entities, Pentagon,
Speaker 3: even military, they have in Hollywood and fiction? Why would
Speaker 3: the CIA care about Doctor Zevaga? What is that going
Speaker 3: to do in the Soviet Union? Who cares about that?
Speaker 3: Why would they do that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's funny. You you declare victory in small increments, right,
Speaker 2: and so if you are able to get a book
Speaker 2: like Doctor Juvago into the hands of a Soviet citizen
Speaker 2: and maybe make one Soviet citizen question his or her
Speaker 2: own government. That's a successful operation. And so you know,
Speaker 2: you you plan small and hope for the best. And
Speaker 2: that's really what it was, what it was all about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's there's a movie.
Speaker 2: I know you.
Speaker 3: I'm sure you're well, well, very familiar with Three Days
Speaker 3: of the Condor. Yeah, and you've got Robert Redford sitting
Speaker 3: in this bookstore and he's basically just reading books and
Speaker 3: looking for things all day long. Is that real or
Speaker 3: is that exaggerated?
Speaker 2: No, that's real. That's real. When I first joined the agency,
Speaker 2: that was called active Measures, So you had an active
Speaker 2: measures branch and then you had anti active measures branches.
Speaker 2: So you're planning American propaganda and then the other branch
Speaker 2: is planning how to come.
Speaker 3: Sorry it's okay, go ahead, can me now? Yeah?
Speaker 2: Sure, yeah, Sorry, for whatever reason, my my microphone switched.
Speaker 2: So yeah, it's it's all about the propaganda, and it's
Speaker 2: all about combating propaganda. It's a twenty four hour a day,
Speaker 2: seven day a week process.
Speaker 3: You know, in films, you know, you watch movies or shows,
Speaker 3: you see something like the Americans and we see back
Speaker 3: during the Cold War, number stations are putting out the
Speaker 3: message codes to the Soviet operatives in the US. And
Speaker 3: if I recall, it's been some years since I watched
Speaker 3: Three Day as the Condor. But Robert Redfords like scanning
Speaker 3: for propaganda. But isn't it also perhaps like messages from
Speaker 3: Soviet operatives to certain cells or something like he's trying
Speaker 3: to see if he can find something. Maybe it's not
Speaker 3: I don't remember. Does that still go on in terms
Speaker 3: of I know there's number stations sort of putting out
Speaker 3: those codes and whatnot. Is that still happening at that
Speaker 3: type of a level. Okay?
Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, as recently as a week ago. I was
Speaker 2: just I just did a podcast episode of my own
Speaker 2: where I talked to two former CIA colleagues. One was
Speaker 2: a CIA attorney and the other was a was an
Speaker 2: operations off as so anti Soviet operations officer, and we
Speaker 2: were talking about that, and I said, you know, when
Speaker 2: I was nine years old, I've said this before. When
Speaker 2: I'm nine years old, I told my parents I wanted
Speaker 2: to be a spy when I grew up, and they
Speaker 2: bought me walkie talkies and disappearing ink and stuff like
Speaker 2: that for Christmas. When I was sixteen, I told them.
Speaker 2: I wanted to be a spy in the Middle East,
Speaker 2: and I meant it, and I became a spy in
Speaker 2: the Middle East. Well my dad. When I was nine,
Speaker 2: my dad took me to an auction at one of
Speaker 2: these one of these local farms. We lived in a
Speaker 2: very rural area, and at the end of the auction,
Speaker 2: all the junk that didn't sell they just threw into
Speaker 2: one box, and my dad got the box for fifty
Speaker 2: cents and it included a shortwave radio. So that night
Speaker 2: we put some batteries in this thing and I listened
Speaker 2: to an AM station. It was WGN in Chicago, and
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, Wow, I'm in Newcastle, Pennsylvania, and I
Speaker 2: can hear a station in Chicago, because you know, when
Speaker 2: the sun goes down, AM stations go on augmented power,
Speaker 2: and if you're a fifty thousand watt station, you can
Speaker 2: be picked up as much as fifteen hundred miles away.
Speaker 2: So I was getting Chicago and New York and Boston
Speaker 2: and Atlanta and Dallas a couple a couple of times.
Speaker 2: The next night I switched it to shortwave, just to
Speaker 2: see if I can get this on AM. What about
Speaker 2: this shortwave? And I got BBC and Radio Moscow and
Speaker 2: Radio Havana and all different kinds of things. Well, one
Speaker 2: of the things that I heard that night and many
Speaker 2: many nights after that, was just a man's voice saying
Speaker 2: eight three six.
Speaker 3: Are you there? I think we lost you audio wise?
Speaker 3: Can you hear me? Guys in the chat? You can
Speaker 3: hear me right? Maybe we're getting everybody always makes the
Speaker 3: same dumb joke at this point, though, Sue is most
Speaker 3: of them were. I don't know about that, but let
Speaker 3: me see here, make sure I didn't hit the wrong
Speaker 3: button multi it, so John, i've lost Let me try
Speaker 3: to probably just switched to his audio again. Guys, I
Speaker 3: will go ahead and read a couple of super chats
Speaker 3: while he works on that here, and we've got several
Speaker 3: so in the last twenty minutes, maybe it's it's a
Speaker 3: good time to shift over to super chats. You guys
Speaker 3: did ask him a lot of questions, so I'll try
Speaker 3: to make it accessible and quick. We lost him, but
Speaker 3: he'll be right back.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: Yes, you're back. Sorry about that.
Speaker 2: I have no idea why that happened. It didn't give
Speaker 2: me any indication that there was something wrong, so real
Speaker 2: quickly then the guys just reading numbers for hours, and
Speaker 2: I'm like, what is this, Well, what it is. It's
Speaker 2: a spy who is doing what he's called. What he's
Speaker 2: doing is called reading from a one time pad. So
Speaker 2: he's reading an encrypted message by giving only the numbers
Speaker 2: associated with the letters that are encrypted, so those numbers
Speaker 2: will change with every message. So I mentioned this on
Speaker 2: the podcast the other day, and the other case officer
Speaker 2: he said, oh, listen, he said, I still listened to shortwave,
Speaker 2: and I can tell you that a week ago I
Speaker 2: heard a guy reciting one time pad numbers. So it's
Speaker 2: some Russian spy somewhere in the United States and he's
Speaker 2: reading from his one time pad. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I remember somebody was talking the other day too about
Speaker 3: there there was a number station down in Miami that's
Speaker 3: like near Cuba that's still you know, spitting out numbers
Speaker 3: codes and for the British have these as well. So
Speaker 3: I'll go ahead and start reading the super chats because
Speaker 3: I know you've only got about twenty minutes left with us.
Speaker 3: So guys, we want to put in your questions for
Speaker 3: John do so now I may have to read the
Speaker 3: super chats that are above five dollars or more, perhaps
Speaker 3: because we've got quite a few coming in. Hush Chown says, Jay,
Speaker 3: you look like Clavicular. You're Jay Vicular good one. Albert
Speaker 3: Smith five dollars, Jay, you've got another sad hair day. Well,
Speaker 3: I didn't want to look too silly talking to John Kiriaku,
Speaker 3: so I just went with I don't know Rob Thomas
Speaker 3: from Mashbox twenty mixed with James Bond, So roll stake
Speaker 3: ten dollars. Jay, you're researching topics, but you're muted. Okay,
Speaker 3: we unmuted Reckon five dollars, bro in case you didn't
Speaker 3: know you're live. I know JML fifteen dollars. Why are
Speaker 3: so many XCIA in US politics? And what about the
Speaker 3: Democratic Party? Say Governor Virginia. Can we trust any of
Speaker 3: these people? John, No, we can't trust answer.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you. I was the mentor to a guy,
Speaker 2: Will Hurd. Will was an awesome case officer, as honest
Speaker 2: as the day is long. Our politics were different, but
Speaker 2: I love the guy, and he told us one day
Speaker 2: he said, listen, I'm going to resign. I was like,
Speaker 2: what I said, Will, You're a natural born case officer.
Speaker 2: Why would you resign? He says, I want to run
Speaker 2: for Congress. I said, run for congress, buddy, I said,
Speaker 2: that's not a step up, it's not well. He resigned
Speaker 2: and he ran for congress. Eddie won. Here's a guy
Speaker 2: who's half black, half white, and he wins three times
Speaker 2: in a Supreme Court mandated majority Hispanic district. That's how
Speaker 2: honest and popular he was. And then he decided, this
Speaker 2: is all bullshit, it's all posturing, no real work gets done.
Speaker 2: I'm going to quit and run for president. He runs
Speaker 2: for president for about fifteen minutes, when a year two
Speaker 2: years ago, he dropped out before the primaries even began.
Speaker 2: And the last I heard, he was on the board
Speaker 2: of directors at Open AI, making millions and millions and
Speaker 2: millions of dollars. So it worked out for him. But
Speaker 2: you know, people like Alyssa Slotkin and Abby Spamberger, it's
Speaker 2: all about the power. Listen, Abby. Even at the agency, Abby,
Speaker 2: Abby was known as somebody who wasn't going to be
Speaker 2: around long because she needed she needed time to win
Speaker 2: election to different offices so that she could run for president.
Speaker 2: That's what that's what it's all about. Melissa Slutkin's exactly
Speaker 2: the same way. The idea is that automatically they're both
Speaker 2: attractive candidates for vice president, and then the next time
Speaker 2: when it's their turn, they run for president. It's all
Speaker 2: about power.
Speaker 3: All that leads me to the last question I had
Speaker 3: for you on my list here as we kind of
Speaker 3: wind down with the super chats, and that is we
Speaker 3: cover quite a bit on my channel the idea of
Speaker 3: high level steering committees, foundations, NGO's thing tanks. They seem
Speaker 3: to have a lot of power. Yeah, Americans look at
Speaker 3: the President, they look at the you know, Congress, they
Speaker 3: look at the Senate, Supreme Court, and certainly those entities
Speaker 3: have power, but it seems like there's certain agendas that
Speaker 3: never change with the politicians that come and go. For example,
Speaker 3: our foreign policy seems to be dictated by Israel for many,
Speaker 3: many decades. Yes, what is the real level of power
Speaker 3: you could say for these types of supra governmental entities,
Speaker 3: these steering committee CFR, trilateral or APAC you know as
Speaker 3: a lobby group, or perhaps beyond that, something beyond apack
Speaker 3: a mega groups, something like that. What's the real power structure? John?
Speaker 2: Oh, They're all part of what we are now calling
Speaker 2: the deep state, all of them CFR is a great example.
Speaker 2: You know, builder Berg is another I someone to whom
Speaker 2: I was once very close. I'll put it that way
Speaker 2: because that's what the divorce court says.
Speaker 3: I have to say.
Speaker 2: Someone to whom I was very close found herself in
Speaker 2: a position where she began attending these meetings, right, And
Speaker 2: I said, you got to tell me what goes on
Speaker 2: in these meetings. What are they talking about? Are they like,
Speaker 2: you know, manipulating global markets and you know, foreign policies
Speaker 2: and stuff. And she said, it's all about weapons sales.
Speaker 2: All of these meetings, whether it's Shangri La or builder
Speaker 2: Berg or any of them, it's all about weapon sales. Yes,
Speaker 2: the built Clinton's and the Bill Gates of the world
Speaker 2: and the you know, prime ministers of this country in
Speaker 2: that country. They're all talking about the big overarching global
Speaker 2: issues and economies and stuff like that. Yes, but at
Speaker 2: the end of the day, it all comes down to
Speaker 2: which defense contractor made what deal at every one of
Speaker 2: these conferences.
Speaker 3: Is that also that would also still overlap with.
Speaker 2: Tech because we heard this absolutely.
Speaker 3: We heard this last Bilderberg meeting on a couple of
Speaker 3: weeks ago. What dominated the supposed talking points were cbdc's
Speaker 3: you know Ai that was the You know it seems
Speaker 3: like Bilderburg the last ten years has really allegedly focused
Speaker 3: on a whole lot of tech stuff. Is that Does
Speaker 3: that fit in with that?
Speaker 2: Absolutely? Yes. Right now it's all about tech, and I
Speaker 2: think it will be even more so in the in
Speaker 2: the future. Yeah, it's all about tech.
Speaker 3: Anonymous as fifty dollars and doesn't say anything, thanks so much.
Speaker 3: Manacre said that, Gabe, do you have any opinions on
Speaker 3: the YouTuber Alpha talks? He has forty k subs and
Speaker 3: talks about Genesis six and in times eschatology. I don't
Speaker 3: typically go into a lot of the evangelical eschatological stuff.
Speaker 3: Poncho twenty dollars off topic for Muslims or people that
Speaker 3: sympathize with Islam. Look up Kuwait and the response to
Speaker 3: Philippine legal challenges after twenty eighteen and the unliving of
Speaker 3: Joanna Dima Felis and the twenty nineteen unaliving of Jenna
Speaker 3: Janelle Villa Vinde. I don't know anything about that, No,
Speaker 3: nor do I. Poncho twenty dollars, Thank you so much,
Speaker 3: Container fifty dollars, Jay, What does John and he did
Speaker 3: mention this earlier. What does John think about SRI and
Speaker 3: CIA programs studying remote viewing?
Speaker 2: For the CIA, remote viewing was a failure. They could
Speaker 2: never figured it out, they could never make it work.
Speaker 2: It was always my understanding. The Russians also failed, the
Speaker 2: Chinese failed. I think it's just not possible. I think
Speaker 2: it's not a thing.
Speaker 3: Hush. That's for ten dollars, John, could you tell us
Speaker 3: what you think about LP de four oh's there was
Speaker 3: a discussion of a phone call. I can't remember the
Speaker 3: original video. What did you think of that?
Speaker 2: See now you're going to put me on the spot.
Speaker 3: Maybe I don't know. If you don't want to say,
Speaker 3: you don't have to say.
Speaker 2: The photos is the archbishop of the Orthodox Church Greek
Speaker 2: Orthodox Church in America. He is widely believed to be
Speaker 2: by far the leading candidate to be the next documentical
Speaker 2: Patriarch of Constantinople. He's young, he's fifty eight years old,
Speaker 2: he's good looking, he's widely respected. He has not been
Speaker 2: kind to me personally. Maybe I should leave it at that,
Speaker 2: fair enough.
Speaker 3: Hush tone twenty dollars, Jay, thank you, here's for the
Speaker 3: supertech goal. Thank you for your work. Saint Louis is
Speaker 3: about to get a new ro Court church. That's great, Hendrick. Apparently,
Speaker 3: Hendrix says for two hundred seks, which is usually twenty cents.
Speaker 3: Anytime you see some weird foreign currencies, it's like translate,
Speaker 3: it's like a twenty thousand CCPs and it translates to
Speaker 3: like thirty. Hendrick says, Olof Palma, of the Swedish prime minister.
Speaker 3: He's a Swedish prime mission. In nineteen eighties, assassinate was assassinated,
Speaker 3: probably by a Gladio cell. There was a ci operation
Speaker 3: called Red Sox where they had tiny mustache men followers
Speaker 3: in the Ukraine and this was part of the Midon coup. Interesting,
Speaker 3: I had not heard.
Speaker 2: That that all of Palma's assassination was part of the
Speaker 2: Maidan coup.
Speaker 3: But he's saying that there's a cell that is similar
Speaker 3: to that group that was he's saying as a Gladio
Speaker 3: cell that in the Ukraine was called Red Sox, which
Speaker 3: lead which helped with the mydonku is what he's saying.
Speaker 2: I always heard that. I have no idea. I always
Speaker 2: heard that Palma was killed by a curd, but the
Speaker 2: curd was ended. He ended up being convicted and then
Speaker 2: and then on appeal the conviction was overturned, he was
Speaker 2: released and they never conclusively solve that murder.
Speaker 3: Mountain Walk ten dollars. Jay asked, John, does he gloat
Speaker 3: in the dark. Well, he's a whistleblower, so if that's
Speaker 3: what you're referring to, container we already asked him about
Speaker 3: remote viewing. Mountain Walk did not ask about bioluminescence. I'm
Speaker 3: restricting it to super jets over ten twenty dollars, so
Speaker 3: Eugene five dollars. This is actually the best geopolitical content
Speaker 3: in this sphere, hands down. Well, thank you, I appreciate
Speaker 3: that wonderful slow boy whiteboard. Twenty dollars. Guys helped Jay
Speaker 3: get to the goal. Also subscribed to John absolutely. His
Speaker 3: channel is linked in the show description and I will
Speaker 3: link him in the title.
Speaker 2: And this is not a formal announcement yet, but we
Speaker 2: are winding down my deep focused podcast and we're going
Speaker 2: to start anew in two weeks on YouTube under real
Speaker 2: John Kiriaku. It's going to be called John Kiriaku's Briefing Room.
Speaker 3: That'd be a different channel or the same channel, redone.
Speaker 2: It's going to have to be a different channel. I'm
Speaker 2: sorry to say.
Speaker 3: Okay, so yeah, we'll down the road. You know, I'll
Speaker 3: try to link and promote that one of thy channel.
Speaker 3: Jacob says, I don't even know what that means. Uh door,
Speaker 3: Poor Robin. Shout out to Neil. He says, John is
Speaker 3: spinning yarns. He's a rock contour. We should invite him
Speaker 3: to our super He doesn't mean spinning yarns in a batter.
Speaker 3: He's saying, you're telling you. He says, you're telling great
Speaker 3: He's a good friend. He's saying you're telling great stories.
Speaker 3: He needs to come to our You know what a
Speaker 3: soon is? The Georgian meal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: Mountain Walk. Jay has to dumb down rhetoric because he's
Speaker 3: talking to an audience of midwos and ormies. When he
Speaker 3: encounters for intelligent people to flow, the conversation is much
Speaker 3: more natural and high tier.
Speaker 2: Well and Jay, when you came on my show Deep State,
Speaker 2: I had to stop and think my own show, my
Speaker 2: TV show. We went for an hour and a half
Speaker 2: talking about mostly about Orthodox theology and threats to Orthodox.
Speaker 2: He was fascinating. I couldn't believe ninety minutes had passed
Speaker 2: and they turned it into three separate episodes. It was wonderful, perfect.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's great, and that is going to be on
Speaker 3: the Deep Focus or is it gonna be on your
Speaker 3: new channel.
Speaker 2: That's going to be on the new channel.
Speaker 3: Okay, awesome, So look for the new channel again. Let's see.
Speaker 3: All right, you guys can't spam like two dollars super
Speaker 3: chat questions come on now? Uh ho, long night, five dollars.
Speaker 3: My grandfather was one of the employees that they tested
Speaker 3: LSD on. Unfortunately, I hate to hear that. Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: a Frankly is it Frank Olsen, Poor Frank ol Let's see,
Speaker 3: Poor Frey says there's a secret Asian peptide. Okay, there's
Speaker 3: a really weird questions now here, come all the skitzos.
Speaker 3: I'm joking, Jude says, for five dollars. To clarify my
Speaker 3: last question, I want to know, can John talk about
Speaker 3: what was going on at his time in the Middle East.
Speaker 3: That's a broad question.
Speaker 2: Lots was going on in the Middle East. On the
Speaker 2: one hand, you had the Arab Israeli peace process, which
Speaker 2: which we believed at the time, was really taken hold.
Speaker 2: When I was stationed in Bahrain. We actually sponsored the
Speaker 2: Arab Israeli peace talks on the environment, and then I
Speaker 2: went to Oman for the Arab Israeli piece on water.
Speaker 2: I mean it was weird to see like Israeli flags
Speaker 2: flying and Bahrain and Israeli diplomats walking around crazy at
Speaker 2: the same time. Though, the First Intifada began while I
Speaker 2: was in Bahrain and got pretty ugly, like really ugly.
Speaker 2: I mean, people died, others were executed. It was it
Speaker 2: was nasty. I went into Quait City with the Marines
Speaker 2: on Liberation Day back in ninety one and then you know,
Speaker 2: nine to eleven, and yeah, it was kind of crazy.
Speaker 3: All right, Josh says, thank you both. John. Have you
Speaker 3: noticed any patterns from CIA or FBI drawing from recruiting
Speaker 3: Mormons or perhaps yeah, or other cult groups like Quakers, shows, witnesses,
Speaker 3: or scientologists.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, I never encountered to scientologists. But Mormons
Speaker 2: are very, very overly represented in both the c and
Speaker 2: the FBI, to a very slightly lesser extent in NSA.
Speaker 2: And the reason is simple Number one, They've never done anything.
Speaker 2: They don't swear, they don't drink, they don't smoke, they
Speaker 2: don't gamble, they don't screw around, they don't do anything.
Speaker 2: They don't even eat chocolate, and so they just blow
Speaker 2: right through the polygraph exam. More importantly is most of
Speaker 2: them go on these missions when they're eighteen or nineteen
Speaker 2: years old, and they go to bring them young to
Speaker 2: the mission center, and they learn how to speak these
Speaker 2: funky languages that nobody else speaks, Uzbek, Tajik, pash To,
Speaker 2: these African languages, and so they arrive on the job
Speaker 2: already fluent in these languages, and they can be sent
Speaker 2: operationally immediately overseas. So the Agency and the Bureau just
Speaker 2: love Mormons.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, By the way, that's the vindication of something
Speaker 3: that people will keep challenging me. All when I mentioned
Speaker 3: that Jude says were ten dollars, what I was specifically
Speaker 3: asking John about with the Middle East early, I'm sorry
Speaker 3: I couldn't find your other super chat you said, what
Speaker 3: did John think was going on, for example, in the
Speaker 3: Antiochian Church during his time in the Middle East.
Speaker 2: You know, I attended the Antiochian Church when I was
Speaker 2: stationed in the Middle East, just because there was no
Speaker 2: Greek Orthodox Church, specifically in Kuwait. The Antiochians were very strong,
Speaker 2: you know. I don't remember there being any controversy when
Speaker 2: I was living there in the nineties. It was all
Speaker 2: pretty straightforward. And then when I was stationed in Bahrain,
Speaker 2: I was very close friends with the Greek consul general.
Speaker 2: She was a Greek American and there was no Cypriot
Speaker 2: representation there, so she covered Cyprus as well. And then
Speaker 2: she said to me one day, hey, Archbishop Cristodolos is
Speaker 2: going to come to Bahrain and he wants to meet
Speaker 2: with the Emir. We're going to have all all of
Speaker 2: the Orthodox, the Greeks and the Cypriots go with him
Speaker 2: to see the Amir. The Amir was surprised to see me.
Speaker 2: He had no idea. I mean, there was no reason
Speaker 2: why he would have known that I was Orthodox. And
Speaker 2: we had the meeting and then he pulls me aside
Speaker 2: and he says to me, he whispers, I like your Ayatola.
Speaker 2: He said, your Imam. He said, I like your Imam.
Speaker 2: I trust him, and I said, he likes you, your Highness.
Speaker 2: Next thing, you know, the Amir donates a giant plot
Speaker 2: of land, it was like two acres, and we built
Speaker 2: the first ever Greek Orthodox church or the first ever
Speaker 2: Orthodox church in Bahrain. It was very very generous. In
Speaker 2: Kuwait there were already Orthodox churches, Antiochian and Armenian, and
Speaker 2: then later on, toward the end of the nineties, they
Speaker 2: built an Antiochian church in Doha. I was in Dubai
Speaker 2: a few weeks ago, and there are churches in both
Speaker 2: Dubai and Abu Dhabi. I don't think there's anything in Muscat,
Speaker 2: and absolutely, absolutely positively nothing in Saudi Arabia anywhere you'll
Speaker 2: lose your head. But things were going pretty well from
Speaker 2: the Antiochians when I was living there.
Speaker 3: Hendrik says, have you guys read Which Path to Persia
Speaker 3: from two thousand nine Brookings Institute. Yes, I haven't read
Speaker 3: the whole thame. I'm familiar with that. I did actually
Speaker 3: look it up the other day. In it, they admit
Speaker 3: that the US will go to war for Israel and Iran.
Speaker 3: The US is not getting bombed by Iran, but the
Speaker 3: Gulf Allies are, and I assumed John probably agrees with that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely absolutely John.
Speaker 3: Are there other members of in seventeen that perhaps never
Speaker 3: got caught and continue in Greek leftist parties?
Speaker 2: Yes, there was one in particular who admitted that he
Speaker 2: was one of the two shooters in the Welsh assassination.
Speaker 2: He dropped out of seventeen November. He was the only
Speaker 2: one to voluntarily leave and joined the Greek Communist Party
Speaker 2: and became the president of Greece's largest labor union. Greece
Speaker 2: is one of those rare countries which very stupidly has
Speaker 2: a statute of limitations on murder, and so he was
Speaker 2: never prosecuted. He got away scott free with the Welsh assassination.
Speaker 3: All right, I'm gonna John will have to leave soon.
Speaker 3: I don't want to keep him too long, so I'm
Speaker 3: going to try to figure out the higher tier super
Speaker 3: chats here and read the last one or two GM
Speaker 3: says for fifty dollars. I'm loving this interview. Thank you
Speaker 3: so much, GM. I appreciate that. Let's see Banana says
Speaker 3: for twenty dollars. John, Can you talk about the CIA
Speaker 3: culture and its influence in America, for example, and universities
Speaker 3: Middle Eastern countries and spreading Americanism in terms of soft power.
Speaker 2: Wow, we would need a whole episode for that. The answer,
Speaker 2: obviously is You're exactly right that ciasoft power is being
Speaker 2: exerted everywhere that you've just cited, whether it's in television
Speaker 2: series or Hollywood movies or the media, or across universities.
Speaker 2: You know, I was recruited by my grad school professor,
Speaker 2: and then with passage of the nineteen ninety three Equal
Speaker 2: Employment Opportunity Act, that became illegal. So what they did
Speaker 2: is they just went around the EEOC. What they do
Speaker 2: now is if you are within three years of retirement
Speaker 2: and you're a senior operations officer, they'll send you back
Speaker 2: to your alma mater to teach some innocuous course. A
Speaker 2: buddy of mine right now is teaching a course at
Speaker 2: Indiana University called Espionage in Soviet Literature. Nobody gives a
Speaker 2: shit about espionage and Soviet literature. The whole point of
Speaker 2: the class is for people to come up to him
Speaker 2: after class and say, Hey, I'd really like to join
Speaker 2: the CIA. And then he says, let me introduce you
Speaker 2: to a friend of mine. That's what it's for now.
Speaker 3: Last question, because John's gonna have to go right now.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for joining me. John. Again, all
Speaker 3: the links are going to be below pleasure And this
Speaker 3: is always a classic. It comes up, of course with
Speaker 3: the books that I wrote. But John, this is from
Speaker 3: Penny for twenty dollars. Is House of Cards worth watching?
Speaker 3: Or what are the TV shows or movies that really
Speaker 3: give insights into accuracy with the CIA?
Speaker 2: House of Cards definitely is worth watching. That is the
Speaker 2: story of the Clinton family. I mean, they don't even
Speaker 2: try to mask it. House of Cards is about the Clintons. Yes,
Speaker 2: don't miss it. But an even better show is The Americans.
Speaker 2: A former colleague of mine in the CI's Counter Terrorism Center,
Speaker 2: Joe Weisberg, resigned. I remember the day he resigned. He
Speaker 2: came up to me. He said, buddy, I just resigned.
Speaker 2: I was like, what, why would you resign? And he said,
Speaker 2: this job is just not for me. He said, I
Speaker 2: don't have it in my gut to convince somebody to
Speaker 2: commit treason. He said, I just can't do it. But
Speaker 2: he was unmarried, no kids. I said, what are you
Speaker 2: going to do? He said, I'm going to go to
Speaker 2: Hollywood and find my fortune. And he published a very
Speaker 2: highly regarded novel that was heavily redacted because it was
Speaker 2: so true to life, and then immediately created The Americans
Speaker 2: and never has to work again a day in his life.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a great show. It's my favorite, one of
Speaker 3: my favorite TV shows, definitely. We've we've done several podcasts
Speaker 3: in the archives, you guys, with our good buddy Mark Hackard,
Speaker 3: Russia Analysts specialist, translator, translates KGB stuff, and of course
Speaker 3: he did a great podcast with me on the Americans.
Speaker 3: Everybody be sure and follow John Kiyaku in the show description. John,
Speaker 3: thank you so much. I'm honored to speak with you
Speaker 3: and so proud of your work and what you're doing
Speaker 3: and seeing you all over all these podcasts and great episode.
Speaker 3: I'll Tucker by the.
Speaker 2: Way, thank you very very much, appreciate it. It's good
Speaker 2: to see you again.
Speaker 3: All right, excellent, and I'll let John go. He's got
Speaker 3: a busy schedule, so thank you there. John, and I
Speaker 3: do want to get to several of the superchats. I
Speaker 3: know you guys probably wanted him to answer a lot
Speaker 3: of these, but there were so many little super chats
Speaker 3: that we can't spend three hours asking John Kuraaku two
Speaker 3: three five dollars super chats. Come on, you guys, so
Speaker 3: I'll answer to the best of my abilities. Of the
Speaker 3: rest of these, We've got t X says for two pounds,
Speaker 3: does wig up boomer? Maxon, Come on, dude, you talking
Speaker 3: about me or talking about John. John might actually be
Speaker 3: gen X.
Speaker 2: He might not.
Speaker 3: Actually I think he's older gen X. I don't think
Speaker 3: he would qualify as boomer. But even if he does,
Speaker 3: he is a cool boomer. And you guys know that
Speaker 3: all the boomers in our sphere, whether it's Dean Arnold
Speaker 3: or good buddy Jim Jatras another Greek friend of ours,
Speaker 3: they're all the best of the boomers for sure. Mountain Walk,
Speaker 3: I know you sent a bunch. Let's se if we
Speaker 3: can read some of these that we missed with to
Speaker 3: Walk here. Hold on a second, this screen is freezing
Speaker 3: up again. Night Fire says were twenty dollars years ago.
Speaker 3: When I was driving later night, someone I know took
Speaker 3: a right turn on a street. They ended up on
Speaker 3: another street and that would have been thirty minutes away.
Speaker 3: Is that wormhole technology? Maybe your friend was just high
Speaker 3: as hell and he just sort of like drove around
Speaker 3: and got you know, lost. That's more likely than a
Speaker 3: wormhole poor free twenty dollars. Do intelligence agencies talk or
Speaker 3: care about macroeconomic monetary policy? Absolutely? I mean I would
Speaker 3: say they care about that because there are many academics
Speaker 3: and economists that work for intelligence agencies. Do they care
Speaker 3: about the actions of the Federal Reserve. I'm sure that
Speaker 3: they watch them and note them and track them. What
Speaker 3: topics are good for lay people to study to better
Speaker 3: position themselves in the world. Well, if you mean my natarily,
Speaker 3: because you're talking about money, money policy. Guess what. My
Speaker 3: Bitcoin News podcast just went up. We did this I
Speaker 3: think last week. And this is our buddy here who
Speaker 3: Rob Wallace, who just did a great interview with me.
Speaker 3: Let me see if I can pull that up here
Speaker 3: on window capture since we had collab cam up.
Speaker 2: Here we go.
Speaker 3: So here's me and Rob. I'm Rob Thomas. This is
Speaker 3: Rob Wallace. If you'll go, bar there, you need to
Speaker 3: get big coin. If you're broke, Bary bear, you need
Speaker 3: to get big coin. So there's my answer on monetary
Speaker 3: policy in the chat there there it is right there. Oh,
Speaker 3: I pulled up us the wrong screen in it. Let's see,
Speaker 3: let's see if we can do that. Is that that
Speaker 3: didn't fix it?
Speaker 2: Does it?
Speaker 3: Babe? You need to come home. If you'll go whar
Speaker 3: you need? Come there?
Speaker 2: We go.
Speaker 3: Now we fixed it seems like a lot of y'all
Speaker 3: are not enjoying the the Rob Thomas nineteen ninety eight
Speaker 3: Clooney Caesar cut y'all. A lot of y'all getting mad.
Speaker 3: A lot of y'all will just obsess on hair, hair, hair, hair,
Speaker 3: talk about hair all the time. Y'all need to go
Speaker 3: get your hair did, because that's all y'all talk about
Speaker 3: night fire twenty dollars. No, we did that, Penny, we
Speaker 3: did Penny Mountain Walk says he's the one that throws
Speaker 3: throwing all the hold on orthow cards fight. I was Jay,
Speaker 3: what's going on when hummus? I heard it's not good
Speaker 3: you talking about eating hummus. I mean I eat hummus
Speaker 3: every now and then. I have not heard that it's
Speaker 3: bad for you, though. Enlighten me. I guess you're asking
Speaker 3: about Middle Eastern foods, y'all. What y'all are on? Mah
Speaker 3: Mountain Walk? Ten dollars? Who is this?
Speaker 2: Nerd?
Speaker 3: Is his favorite pokemon al Kazam dork alert? I think
Speaker 3: you're talking about me right, Surely you're not calling saying
Speaker 3: that about John Jacob. The Fate Electrician has an awesome
Speaker 3: video on Billy Waugh. Okay, he's talking about a YouTube
Speaker 3: channel on Billy Wall that waug h that John mentioned
Speaker 3: in the interview. Mountain Walk twenty dollars, Jay, have you
Speaker 3: played ain Honder? No, I don't know what that is.
Speaker 3: Mountain Walker five dollars. These guys are thinking too much
Speaker 3: now he's mega Alkazam. Mountain Walk five dollars. I feel
Speaker 3: like I'm exploiting the system. I'm ship posting in Jay's
Speaker 3: superchats and then I drink beer for the Texas Rattlesnake.
Speaker 3: Oh hell yeah. May y'all go on full schitzo in
Speaker 3: the chat when we got an esteemed guest trying to
Speaker 3: embarrass me in the chat with these dumb ass super chets.
Speaker 3: I love you mountain Walk, but they're still dumb as
Speaker 3: super jets get wrecked two dollars. How do I forgive
Speaker 3: the justice system? As an orthodox Christian? Forgive the justice system?
Speaker 3: You don't forgive systems. You forgive people individually, poor free
Speaker 3: five dollars, secret Asian peptie, and we did that. Mountain
Speaker 3: Walk five dollars. Get John to stop freaking me out
Speaker 3: about flying saucers. It's not aliens. The alternative hypothesis is
Speaker 3: disturbing Mountain Walk asking about high jump Jude. Okay, I'm
Speaker 3: sorry I missed that question there, Jude, but I did
Speaker 3: get in and there at the end he says for
Speaker 3: twenty dollars about the antiochin church craftsmen five dollars. How
Speaker 3: do we know he isn't running a mission talking to Jay?
Speaker 3: What if he's trying to take down our bipoc queen Well,
Speaker 3: John has been on like a thousand podcasts in the
Speaker 3: last few months, so I mean, I doubt that I'm
Speaker 3: high up on the mission targeting there. He's if he's
Speaker 3: on every frigate, but I mean he's on Tucker, He's
Speaker 3: on Danny Jones, He's on Rogan, He's on every podcast.
Speaker 3: So you know, you guys are being paranoid. Mountain Walk
Speaker 3: ten dollars, I'm pro THEO or ten dollars. What are
Speaker 3: your favorite psychology books. I'm not a psychology master. I
Speaker 3: mean I have some big, fat, you know history of psychology.
Speaker 3: I've got some you know, Carl Young books. We lectured
Speaker 3: through Carl Jung here on my channel. I've read some
Speaker 3: kind of basic bitch psychology texts and psychiatric texts. We
Speaker 3: did that one switching time on MPD D I D.
Speaker 3: We've done Colin Ross's books, h Osir's Complex. I have
Speaker 3: a talk on OSI's complex from about ten years ago,
Speaker 3: so those would probably be my offering. Young Cobb five
Speaker 3: dollars ask him about boyd to skull and gang stalking again.
Speaker 3: You guys are going full skitzo here, poor free five dollars.
Speaker 3: J for President. I don't want to be president, dude.
Speaker 3: Presidents are all compromised, and just you become president, you
Speaker 3: come out eight your aged twenty years for four years right,
Speaker 3: four years? Trans you give away twenty years of your life.
Speaker 3: You look like a dang senior citizen when you come
Speaker 3: out of being a president. Inchoirer goose five dollars. How
Speaker 3: do we get enormies at work and our social groups
Speaker 3: to open their eyes to the things that you guys
Speaker 3: are talking about without thinking them we're crazy. Gonna be
Speaker 3: honest with your dog, You're probably not gonna get them
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Speaker 3: fifteen dollars Kurayaku die Er twenty twenty eight, We're gonna
Speaker 3: set up orthodox theocracy. I don't think that's going to happen,
Speaker 3: but I appreciate this sentiment. Did John struggle to adjust
Speaker 3: after leaving the CIA going to everyday life as a civilian?
Speaker 3: Can he tell the truth? I will try to have
Speaker 3: John back on. We'll ask some of these questions. I'm
Speaker 3: sure he has answered that question in other podcasts. Brandon
Speaker 3: Lee ten dollars bas On experience was the biggest threat
Speaker 3: to our country in the coming decade. I think he
Speaker 3: thinks is probably other nations. He mentioned China as a
Speaker 3: greater threat than Rush to Tucker, not Iran, So I
Speaker 3: think John probably said those things. But we'll we'll try
Speaker 3: to answer it. We'll ask him some of these questions
Speaker 3: if we can get him back on in the future.
Speaker 3: Mountain Walk. I'm sorry for all these questions and my
Speaker 3: autism to day. It's okay. You sound like you're drunk dog.
Speaker 3: That's all right, Daniel five dollars. I don't. I'm not
Speaker 3: dissing you. I'm just saying like it sounds like you're
Speaker 3: talking about drinking beer at Texas, saluting Texas with your
Speaker 3: beer steins, Daniel five dollars. Does American and jim any
Speaker 3: prevent stability in Latin America? Do you have any books
Speaker 3: on this? There are quite a few books on I
Speaker 3: mean most of William ing f William ing Doll's books
Speaker 3: cover this. Peter Dale Scott has a book called Cocaine Politics,
Speaker 3: and those deal with Latin South America. So I think
Speaker 3: that that definitely plays a role. But I'm not an
Speaker 3: expert when it comes to Latin South American stuff. Papist
Speaker 3: Gavin Or Bland twenty dollars a day. I love you.
Speaker 3: You're finally getting on platforms. Now I get to binge
Speaker 3: all my favorite topics. Thank you. W Milder ten dollars.
Speaker 3: Question for you, is Angela Merkell one of the worst
Speaker 3: EU leaders after nineteen forty five. I'm a fan of
Speaker 3: both of you guys. I don't know what John would
Speaker 3: say about Angela Merkele. I think she's terrible. Absolutely, She's
Speaker 3: a total puppet, contributing to the destruction of that country.
Speaker 3: Anonymous five dollars crisis resident is I saw you at Pasca.
Speaker 3: That was cool. I locked into the military for four
Speaker 3: years after twenty twenty seven as an officer. Do you
Speaker 3: have any advice? I'm an inquirer. I mean I didn't
Speaker 3: go to the military route. I don't that's the kind
Speaker 3: of advice I would say that you should take to
Speaker 3: your spiritual father, because you know, I never went that
Speaker 3: route as I'm a civilian, so I don't know that
Speaker 3: I could advise you on your military choice. JV. John,
Speaker 3: This is an amazing interview. We did that one making
Speaker 3: sure I didn't miss you guys because I was kind.
Speaker 3: I was having to scroll past some of them because
Speaker 3: we had limited time. Okay, I think we got most
Speaker 3: of those. Daniel sett No, we did, Daniel, all right,
Speaker 3: let's see over here, Dill Weed, where'd it go? You get?
Speaker 3: John kiriaku On. You guys are asking about hummus and
Speaker 3: end times, retard eschatology, like guys, you had you had
Speaker 3: a limited time, you could have asked a very prominent
Speaker 3: person some serious questions. You guys are asking about uh
Speaker 3: vitamins and minerals and just crazy shit. Y'all trying to
Speaker 3: embarrass me. Ant and Rodriguez ten dollars. You'll cut free.
Speaker 3: I don't get a haircut, dog. Your cut is fresh.
Speaker 3: You need a wigger cut. I'm growing it out a
Speaker 3: little bit, not long, but I'm just gonna have a
Speaker 3: little bit of shaggy hair. Jamie requested a little bit
Speaker 3: of shag, so we're going to see what the shag
Speaker 3: looks like. I might be too. I don't know. It
Speaker 3: might not be cool enough for shaggy hair. We'll see
Speaker 3: if it looks dumb, I'll cut it non fake blake
Speaker 3: twenty dollars. I'm always I've always been a fan of you. Both.
Speaker 3: You have expertise and insights. I'm a cradle Greek orthodox
Speaker 3: I mentioned in geopolitics. This discussion is like the Super
Speaker 3: Bowl for me. I don't know what to say about
Speaker 3: Chris osin st and thank you both well. Hey appreciate
Speaker 3: that christ is risen. Jonathan Kelly twenty dollars, John, have
Speaker 3: you looked into orthodox prophecies about current state of geopolitics?
Speaker 3: We'll try to ask him that next time. Diyl Weed
Speaker 3: twenty dollars. Does the nineteen thirty four business plot or
Speaker 3: Wall Street putsch lead to anything? To anything? Because Smedley
Speaker 3: Butler made it sound important to the press, but JP
Speaker 3: Morgan and the other conspirators did not get punished for it.
Speaker 3: Great question. I don't know a lot about that. I mean,
Speaker 3: I'm familiar with the overall smelly Butler critique and thesis,
Speaker 3: but that's a great question. I don't know. JB. Pelt
Speaker 3: A twenty dollars. This is a fascinating discussion. Guys, thank
Speaker 3: you so much. Hit like share, be sure and also
Speaker 3: support us through the books. Subscribe to John his channel
Speaker 3: is linked in the chat and everybody, I will see
Speaker 3: you soon on a livestream soon again, go watch the
Speaker 3: bitcoin interview that we did here. Great bitcoin podcast at
Speaker 3: Bitcoin News. I tried to encapsulate the strongest arguments in
Speaker 3: case for bitcoin within about thirty minutes, so you can
Speaker 3: check that out right there. Be sure and follow Rob
Speaker 3: Wallace and Bitcoin News. Very cool, dude, Thank you to Orthodox.
Speaker 3: Now we had a great conversation a bitcoin from an
Speaker 3: Worthox perspective. It's BROSI five dollars get Jamie to corn
Speaker 3: Road as shit if they get long enough. If they
Speaker 3: get long enough, I'll do it. You know what I'm saying. Yes,
Speaker 3: you can follow John a Deep Focus. But also John
Speaker 3: will have a new channel focusing on his new podcast,
Speaker 3: so be sure and follow that. The podcast that we
Speaker 3: did on his RT Deep State show is also available
Speaker 3: on the clip channels. I may just go ahead and
Speaker 3: upload that since it's already everywhere. People put it up everywhere. Guys, everybody,
Speaker 3: have a great night. Share this interview, Clip the heck
Speaker 3: out of this interview. As you guys know, I encourage
Speaker 3: you all to freely clip away. You don't have to
Speaker 3: ask for permission. Just link back to the original channel
Speaker 3: is the only requirement. If you want to clip me,
Speaker 3: feel free to do it. I don't care. And also
Speaker 3: in this case,