Speaker 1: What is up, fella, Siko's I am Dan for Valley,
coming at you with my certified fantabulous co host, mister
Grant Hughes Hardwood.
Speaker 2: Knox is on to.
Speaker 1: The New York Knicks trade deadline primer. This is the
moment none of us have been waiting for. But before
we get but before we get started. One, I'm kind
of referring to us collectively in the third person when
I keep trying to make sure I name the podcast
within the first few seconds of the intro. It feels
very off, and I don't like doing it. But two, Grant,
how are you doing?
Speaker 2: Hmmm? I'm excited just to try to measure your level
of dejection as we progress through this next discussion, and
also excited to be the first to let you know
that the Brooklyn Nets have given the Knicks seven first
round picks for Michel Bridges and matching salary. And I'm
just curious how that makes you feel.
Speaker 1: I just the fact that they didn't push for eight
first round picks is disgusting. I don't pretty good, yeah,
but I mean between between mccal Michael Porter Junior though,
the Nets might be going places, So that's a really big,
big time acquisition for them. Yeah, I will take us
through the New York Knicks trade deadline vitals, which are
not going to take very long. Nope, they are within
one hundred and fifty thousand dollars at the second apron,
which they cannot cross. Notable for anything they do is
that they are sixteen point three million dollars below the
second apron next year. That does not include resigning Mitchell Robinson,
it does include Yabuseli picking up his player option should
he still be around, and it does not include what
it would cost to sign whoever they draft with their
first round pick. They cannot trade an outright first rounder
right now if they wait until the summer. Well, it's
not even waiting. They can open up two in the summer,
the pick this year twenty six, and then their twenty
thirty three pick. They have swaps available though right now
now in this year, in twenty six, two thousand and thirty,
and two thousand and thirty two. Grant, what is the
first thing you want to talk about when it comes
to New York Nickerbockers. Oh wait, it's Karl Anthony Towns.
Speaker 2: Actually I wanted before we get to him that has
to be the first time a twenty thirty three first
round or has been mentioned on the pod, just just
for to get that noted for posterity. We're living in this.
We definitely twenty thirty three is a year. We said that.
Speaker 1: First of all, we're not even sure if we're all
gonna collectively make it just a long time. But two,
we just mentioned it and you said it yourself. We
mentioned the twenty thirty three first round pick with the Lakers,
who we jumped up about it.
Speaker 2: I refuse, No, I don't think we ever. I don't
think that's right. I refuse. The people are going to
go back and be like, man, Grant's memory is really
getting worse. I mean we reference they had three first.
I don't remember specifically saying twenty thirty three. I think
the best explanation I can give, which is still bad,
is maybe you said it and I wasn't listening, because
I don't feel like I said twenty.
Speaker 1: Thirty three that would track. You know, you don't need
to listen to anything. I say, who are you again?
Speaker 2: What are why? What are we doing right now?
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's talk about the Pelicans here. Why don't you
I've brought up the Pelicans entirely, way too many times.
Speaker 2: You got dark ones on the brain.
Speaker 1: So do you think the Nick should trade Karl Anthony Towns?
Do you think Carl Towns is their biggest problem? Uh?
Speaker 2: Oh? Is he their biggest problem? I mean yes, I yes,
I do think that they should trade him, and I've
I think that in the wake of seeing a lot
of people I respect make the argument that he's had
an all star season. Like you know, we're midway through
and there's a lot of all Star teams being put
out there. I don't want to name drop. I don't
want I don't want to put that me. No, did you.
Speaker 1: See a depake of me?
Speaker 2: I could it was someone was trying to sell me
walking tai Chi. And then that same someone also said
it may have been AI said, uh to Anthony Towns?
Speaker 1: Is that is that the new way to get like
to not have to hold ourselves to any accountability whatsoever
moving forward? Is that was an AI clip you saw
off me betting the Memphis Grizzlies over this season or
something like that?
Speaker 2: How? How how was that Ai so convincing in twenty
twenty two? Really, I'm pretty sure you said that no, uh, well,
so to me, I'm going to reach into my one
of my favorite little like pockets of analysis and say,
I think Kat presents a lot of the same problems
that one Demontes Sibonus presents, which is to say, is
very difficult to build a like a weakness free roster
if he is a sitting significant part of your team
because of the defensive issues, mainly like the spacing stuff.
We could talk about the volume and like, I know
it's been a point in contention of like, well, Kat
is one of the best big man shooters ever, but
like why isn't he shooting more? Why isn't that mattering more?
And they're not going in as much this season too,
not going to Yeah, that's a little different conversation this season.
But just like the cost and the size of the
role he has to play and the compromises that come
with it, it's just it's not a good value. So
I guess for just to keep it as simple as possible, like,
I don't think he's a He's not a positive value
player to me because of what he costs him, because
of the weaknesses that are just priced in. Do you
so that's different than saying should you trade him? Because
if someone's a negative value sometimes that means like, well,
you can't. But is that an oversimplification? Do you do
you agree or disagree with that? Like basic stance?
Speaker 1: No, And I think we've seen some pushback as to
is he the biggest problem defensively for them because of
the rebounding some of the rim protection numbers this season.
The answer is yes, he is the biggest defensive problem
because the length to which the Knicks go to insulate him,
which is when you look at the share of minutes
specifically coming alongside Ogan and Obi, it's just different than
it is for Jaalen brunts And also with Jalen Brunson
tries harder, more consistently, and you could be Jalen Brunson
could be an All NBA type of defender at his
position and it just doesn't matter as much as it
does if your center is not good on defense. So
I think the two points there are just you could
say Kat and Jalen Brunson are equally bad or equal
liabilities on the defensive end. That makes building out the
Knicks roster way harder, but it is way more inconvenient,
way more challenging to prop up a good defense if
you're weaker on the back line at the center position
than if you are at the point of attack. And
also Jalen Brunson is not always like you call Jalen
Brunson point of attack, but it's like you can move
you can't move smaller players into Kat's role, like you
can do different things with there's more optionality there. And
I think, look, none of this is new though, and
there should have been. The Knicks especially should have clocked
at this when Minnesota decided that they needed to trade
for a generational defensive Player of the Year candidate like
to play alongside Karlnthy Towns, and then the Knicks just
thought that they could slide him in to the five
and it would be basketball and Nirvana. And they've discovered too,
like they've tried the Mitchell Robinson thing with he in
Towns or the game against the Blazers within the past
couple of weeks. Not only the Town's not closed like
Mitchell Robinson was in front of him, the Knicks at
one point played two minutes without a big instead of
having Karl Anthony Towns on the floor. None of this
is new I'm I am with you though that how
do you go about trading a negative value asset? Because
it's the teams that were linked to him. I don't
understand the interest quite frankly, from many of them, maybe Orlando,
if they want a shorter term contract and they desperately
still need an offensive punch on that team. I know
they haven't been fully healthy for a lot of the year,
but if you add Cat spacing, he's a different level
of threat than a Wendell Carter Junior than a Palo Bancaro.
But I don't the trade package. There has to be
a ton of moving parts for you. If you're the Magic,
Let's say you can get out of the tacks, but
you have to up Jael and Sugs and Wendell Carter
Junior for Cat. That's the basis of the offer. There's
other money moving around, probably Jonathan Isaac, But you're getting
out of the tax Is that Do you consider that?
Speaker 2: I think to know, well, sure you consider it, you
don't do it, And the reason you don't do it is,
like you just you mentioned the Timberwolves. They go trade
for a generational defensive center to putting next to Cat
and the Knicks see that, and they see they by
being made the offer of cat. The Wolves are saying,
you know what, this actually isn't gonna work for us,
and the Knicks were like the like, but it could
work for us to me, right, So then if you're Orlando,
now you're gonna be the third team in that conga
line of like, well, I don't know, I could see,
well do you don't want to be the Only thing
that's different Sorry if if you're Orlando is there's just
less time left on the contract, so like yeah, that
that changes it a little bit, but the bones of
it are the same where it's like, oh, ok, we're
gonna trade for kat we if you don't know what
you're getting at this point with him, like what have
you been doing? Like so you're signing up for we
know the problems we're gonna have. We know, like it's
guaranteed what the issues will be. Plus he's gonna be older,
so like what why, how? Why are you doing that?
I don't understand why you would sign up for the
guy that we're gonna sit here and talk about how
difficult it is to trade him. Why do you want
that player?
Speaker 1: I think the two you mentioned the contract is shorter,
but also the we just talked about this with them,
was okay, Anthony Black's about to get paid. Do you
just want to Suggs is injured, hasn't been the best
shooter that has never logged over I think twenty nine
minutes a game, or he has definitely hasn't hit thirty
minutes a game. Are you just reorienting where some of
your money's going on? Like then you mentioned the contract
will come shorter, but aren't they different? They're kind of
similar to Minnesota, whereas no, they don't have the center
around him, but their positional size is insane. They don't
have that week Like, it's not palaban Karo, it's not Franz,
it's not Anthony Black, it's not Desmond Banne. Do you
think they're better built? They can look at it say
we're better built to insulate towns or is it because
you still don't have the guy who would do the
primary big man stuff on the floor, well that they're
not you.
Speaker 2: I guess you could argue they're better built than the Knicks,
but they're worse built than the Wolves were because the
Wolves had Jaden McDaniels and Aunt and go Bet and
it's still they still decided this isn't good enough.
Speaker 1: So like I think, would you so, would you say
that the Wolves decision feel more about maybe the money?
A yeah, that to me, it was more so trying
to reorient how the roster's like payroll was allocated because
they got two starters from one. That's what they That's true.
Speaker 2: But but I don't think I don't think that the
like fit and the all of the drawbacks of the
Cat experience were uh were not factors. I think that
had it wasn't just the money. So I think just
that's just to say, like you can talk the thing.
You can talk yourself into it. As Orlando, you can say, well,
we've got a ton of size, you at least three
other positions, and Bain is like plays bigger than his
size at the two. So and we're a defensive team.
I mean the other unspoken thing here is like it
does feel like Orlando has a type and Cat ain't it?
You know, so like you could playing Cat's well you
got to defend if you're gonna play for this team, right,
Like what's the That just seems like that's why Bain
made sense. It's like, no he's not a lights out stopper,
but like he's been part of good defenses and he's
gonna compete and be tough and blah blah blah. Like
Cat's not that guy, and he plays the most important
defensive position on the floor. So I know, I'm like
dumping on the hypo and it's like very hard to
come up with any that are close to as plausible
as Orlando, But like I guess maybe that's just illustrative
of how out on the Cat experience I would be.
Is like Orlando's admittedly one of the best possible fits
you could come up with, and I kind of still
hate it.
Speaker 1: The Nicks seem like they're almost in a situation that's
like similar to Julius Randall, where Kat is now more
valuable to them than any other team. Because Charlotte was
another team that was mentioned. I don't think Charlotte should
be in on CAT, to be clear, but a lot
of the packages are just it's expiring money. There's Grant
Williams in there, or is there Miles Bridges or is
there Josh Green? You can't make that. That's you then
decided that kar Anthy Towns is additioned by subtraction because
he's too toxic in the locker room. And there has
been there's been reporting, there's been stuff that people have
texted me that just says something is off there, something
is rotten in New York. Now, this is where my
rant is gonna kick in. Oh good, karl anthy Towns
has been absolutely ridiculous when it comes to some of
this stuff. Some of the efforts that he's put forth
this year have been putrid. He has not been good
like on offense by his standards. That is a fact.
And I also understand that the fans don't want to
hear you halfway through the season talking about you're still
learning your role and sacrificing. Nobody wants to hear someone
making fifty plus million dollars say that. The other thing too,
He wasn't wrong, but I don't know if you saw
the exchange where the reporter was. It was after they
got the shit kicked out of them against Dallas said
this is the same cores last season, Like can you
like what is going? That was the gi Just to
the question. He responded by saying, well, I think saying
it's the same course last season is like doing a
disservice to the real heroes last year who aren't here anymore.
Speaker 2: He proceeded to.
Speaker 1: Name Cameron Payne and nobody else, and it's now now ridiculous,
clearly self serving because Cameron Payne, to Kat's credit, did
make more of an effort to give him the ball,
and the only one on the roster who is doing
that this season is Tyler Kohleik. Jordan Clarkson's not doing
that for him. The stuff between him and Jallen Brunson
has always been wonky, but I would argue if Kat
was more of like a real role threat, it wouldn't
be as wonky. But he's just better suited as picking
pop and the cadence at which Jallen Brunson plays is
not suited to it. That part of it is. Towns
is just so like the Cameron Payn thing was just
so ridiculous, and get that's why people are out on him.
The Knicks should be absolutely ashamed of the way that
they have publicly treated him. You have Mike Brown. I
don't care that he hugged Draymond Green after the game
where Draymond Green didn't really foul Karl Anthony Towns even
though he tripped him. That guy is a podcaster as
a human, butthead, I'm sorry he The problem was is
you proceeded to go into the postgame interview they asked
you about that. You excused the flagrant from Draymond because
he plays hard, so okay, he could trip people, and
then said the bigger problem was Kat picking up his
fifth foul. I don't care what you say in the
locker room to him. That is your player. You go out,
at least don't if you're not gonna like at least
don't throw him under the bus. If you're not gonna
take sides, don't throw Hi under the bus. And then
Josh Hart is talking to reporters as we're recording this yesterday,
I believe, and they're asking him about why it's harder
for people to find Kat within this offense, and he
has a show of support saying conthe town is a
talented offensive player. He's gonna figure it out. But I
don't want to hear about his touches. He needs to
play defense. I want to see him block shots now.
Josh Hart is a human troll himself, and I respect it.
Josh Hart is also not wrong. You don't say that
to the media. Is he is? What is he doing
behind the scenes that is making you think it's okay
to do this? And what is he do you think
it's not changing anything. We've seen that this person doesn't
respond well to that type of stuff. Tibbs was at
least always spoke basically in support of Towns. Now, I
don't want to cajole the ego of someone making fifty
plus million dollars a year. I don't either, but that's
the reality of the player that you traded for. And
it's a fundamental failure on the part of the Knicks
that they are allowing Conthee Towns to be directed under
the bus or actively throwing him. I don't care you
do it in the locker room. Absolutely call him out
in film sessions, but you are damaging his value and
you're not he's if you're doing it, because it's we
need to light a fire under his ass. Bro, we're
almost a game fifty. It ain't lighting a fire under shit.
Everyone here sucks. Everyone here sucks.
Speaker 2: Okay, a couple of things. I think I agree with
you that no matter what the dynamics are internally, you
gotta you can't. I was gonna say, like you gotta
go to bat for your players, like you don't need
to go to bat for kat As at least, just
don't like hit don't hit him with the bat like publicly. Right, Yeah,
that's it's a strained metaphor. And like I think the
points of comparison are like one Memphis, like John Morant
quit on the team for like a good chunk of
the year. He did not hear anything close to this
kind of like under the bus throwing right.
Speaker 1: Well, he on his back cat, He's.
Speaker 2: Sure, who knows. Maybe Jonathan kaminga kind of quit on
the Warriors. They kind of quit on him. But everything
you hear from Jimmy Butler when he was talking from Steph,
from everybody, it's like they just go out of their
way to say what a talent he is and he's
gonna be great, and they they're just like if any
team's got there just recently was just the little ripples
of like there are players on the roster that are
frustrated by like his expectations for himself. Like that's the
closest thing you got. You never got anything like what
you're hearing.
Speaker 3: I mean, that was funny when that was a bar
that was incredible put it around him, arguably a little
self sabotage.
Speaker 1: I know people have seen everything else, but like.
Speaker 2: So that's but that that was a little like there
was a little fishure and the team's frustration with kaminga
like crept through in the demand talk what you're seeing
with the Knicks is like, so this is the question,
Like I agree, you can't whatever it is, you just
got to shut up about it because it doesn't do
anybody any good to be so public about like how
clearly like annoyed you are with him. But that makes
me wonder like how bad is it?
Speaker 1: Like what how what kind of they has him? They
hail him, but it's like so then like I.
Speaker 2: Just it's hard for me. I almost if there's a
team who's locker room, I would like to have miked
so I could hear, like what is our practices, so
I could hear what he's saying, how he's acting that
is causing this level of like very obvious annoyance and
like disdain, Like wouldn't that wouldn't it be the Knicks?
Because like what's it got to be? Like what must
be happening? It's gonna be like unbelievable.
Speaker 1: You want to believe it's not entirely unprovoked, right, that
he somehow deserves.
Speaker 2: I cannot believe it is unprovoked. I have because it's
like you cling to the like players around the league
think he's kind of corny, Like corny was the word,
and I've used it several times because I remember that's
what I remember reading that was like the perception of him,
and like, honestly, you hear him talk and you see
the things he does sometimes and it's like, yeah, it
checks out. It feels kind of like a corny dude,
Like is how how is that enough for the for
the treatment that you're talking about?
Speaker 1: You know, like I just want to know what's what
does it need to rise to the level like, because
even if it does, it has to be And it's
just he's not at least saying he's better in a
mind of the campaign thing, which is absolutely ridiculous. I don't.
Speaker 2: It's a lot of self awareness to some extent, right,
Like that's a component of.
Speaker 1: It, for sure, but it's also he hasn't said anything
that compares to like what what Mike Brown did after
that Warriors game was just like I was. I was
outraged even though that, like, I think all of the
criticism that's being a loted to Karl Anthony Towns is
one hundred percent fair. So I'm not coming out from
this as a perspective. I need to defend Towns the
fact that he could and it's not about the hu
Draymond Green focused on the hug. It wasn't about the hug.
It was just the com and Draymond Green also about
the point. It's not like Cat's teammates stuck up for
him when it. Ogi Adanobe like kind of intervened at
one point, so they it's clear the Josh Hart thing
is what like, so like they despise Karl Anthony Towns
and I don't know what he's done to deserve it.
My guess would have to be though that they're actually
just handling this as poorly as Karl Anthony Towns is.
And by the way, you don't like you want to
single out efforts, how about the two dudes who are
primarily responsible for getting James Dolan to fire Tom Thibodeau,
Michale Bridges and og Ananobi haven't earned that type of
a clout that oh Giannanobe hasn't defended well. Like at
the og annobe level in weeks, he's there's always something weird.
It seems to be like, oh, I probably need more touches, Like,
uh no, you fucking don't. Like we've watched you now
for nearly a decade. The last thing you need is
more touches. So everyone here just comes off poorly. Even
people have started talking about Jalen Brunson's leadership and it's like, yeah,
maybe he's not doing enough behind the scenes. I can't
speak to that. So no one here gets off scott free.
But the Knicks have taken what has been a pretty
bad situation that they've put themselves into and they're just
making it worse, which is to bring us back to
the question at hand. I don't think you can trig
Karl Anthony Towns because his value is Trey Young esque
at this point, and that's not the Knicks. Aren't the
Hawks where they can be aggressively mediocre or play for
the future. They have to be about next.
Speaker 2: Right, there's not a Jalen Johnson on this roster that
you're like, Okay, well, if we take a step back,
we can reorient around this guy. It's it's it's a
little different you.
Speaker 1: But Hawks would be another example of just even when
things were at their worst with the murmurings behind the
scenes about Trey Young, is it never just seeped into
the public sphere like it has right now with Karl
Anthony town. So again, I'm not trying to say that
carlon Downton play was far far from it, but just
my god, talk about handling a situation. Could they have
Could the Knicks be doing anything to actively make this
worse than they already are?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean again, I'm stuck, just like I want this.
I want it to make sense. I want to know
that there's like cause ultimately doesn't. When you think of Kat,
like from a personality standpoint, the word harmless kind of
comes to mind, like maybe it's annoying or whatever, but
like it just again, it just doesn't check out to
me with I want to know, like what is Maybe
we'll get this if, if, and when this thing breaks up,
there will be reporting on like here's actually the reason
everybody was so frustrated with him, because if it's just
normal teammate level frustration, like you're mad he doesn't play defense,
you're mad about like how he acts. I just like
we've seen situations like that before. And if if, if
that's all it is, then the Knicks do have like
a crisis of leadership and that should fall on Mike
Brown and on Brunson and on everybody else. Like that's
the other side of this is if it is just
sort of run of the mill, like this guy's kind
of a knucklehead, We're annoyed that he doesn't do the
things we want him to do on the court. He's
kind of a handful in the locker room personality wise.
Like that's just I'm echoing what you said, Like there's
a failure here somewhere, and it feels like one of leadership.
If unless somehow Kat is just like unique, just like
obnoxious and you just can't be around the guy. Right?
But does are the two ways this could be explained?
Speaker 1: Doesn't it almost have to be the latter because there
was and a lot of people pointing this out now
I don't I'm sure you remember the report from the
athletic after last year where it's at members of the
team in the front office were frustrated because he was
just the defense of communication, lack of engagement, execution, and
then not understanding why why it's a big deal and
as people, this is not like my own observation, I
didn't realize it in the moment. No one came out
like the Knicks didn't even try to refute that. Yeah,
and so this seems like it goes back. But I
don't know if that, like that doesn't warrant what's happening
right now. More so seems like what you said, it
has to be the latter that he is. I don't
know what he's doing by the scenes, but is he like,
does he have like a monument a campaign in his
locker that he just like like has to feel like
little brothers, like the encourse of a side.
Speaker 2: It feels like little brother stuff, Like is he going
around like tying people's shoelaces together and like everybody's super
over it, but he keeps doing it. It's like in
little things in my mind, like that's what's happening. It
can't just be that though, like it has to be
to another what well never hopefully we don't know now.
I hope someday we do.
Speaker 1: So let's get into what their actual biggest needs are.
And I think this team is interesting because maybe there
doesn't seem to be a like sort of a division
among what people think. It's all just, oh, we need
a backup ball handler. But I've also seen cases for
they need another big man because Yabuseli's given them less
than zero. I think you could also make a case
that hey, people are trying to like pretend that Landry
Shammitt is a wing and Lantry Sama has been really
good this year, but he's not a wing. They have
no reserve wings. They're not playing d R consistently enough.
He's a rookie pakom dottie. I don't even know if
Mike Brown knows his name. So I think there are
a bunch of different routes they could go, and I
will say the one that least compels me. The big
man stuff I get because Karon Anthony Towns is coarnthy
Town's and Mitchell Robinson checker availability. How many minutes can
he play? If you don't have one of those two
dudes on the floor, you're not getting someone who's gonna
be is gonna approximate anything of what either one of
them is doing with the assets you have. So the
big man stuff just doesn't like if you find someone
who you're eligible to sign on the buyout market and
you think is better than huck Porty. Fine, but I'm
not making a trade and if that's the only trade out,
but I'm not giving up any asset to get another
big man in here. If kar Anthony taws Amtcha Rominson
aren't enough, go upstairs and look at the front office. Like,
that's just that's the one that I get it. But
it's also that to me is more of a waste.
Speaker 2: Yeah, for a minute there, Tyler Kolek was like this,
it was the ray of golden light that solved the
other ball handler problem. I guess maybe I should check
in with you on that is it seems like the
bloom is a little off the rose there. But like,
is he how is he viewed? I speak for the
Knicks right now and their fandom, Like, is Colex still
someone that you can point to and say no, no, no, there,
he's at least competent in that in that role, that
the limited role he's asked to play.
Speaker 1: No, I think that they they clearly at least don't
trust him, and I think that he probably hasn't gained
enough of it. But in theory he's the exact type
you want. Someone who tries on defense, is a playmaker first,
and that's him, but he just doesn't have any scoring
upside at this moment.
Speaker 2: You need him to be like TJ McConnell if in
that in that archetype as opposed to although.
Speaker 1: I would ASSUMMU at that point it would be like,
would be great.
Speaker 2: So I had to pick a white player. It's required
if you're if we're making comparison, sorry.
Speaker 1: So I don't think. I don't believe that they would
just use him to get off Yabusele's money. I don't
think that's.
Speaker 2: Okay, so too valuable to just be that guy, but
not valuable enough to say this is no longer a need.
That's a tough tough in between, I mean.
Speaker 1: But also this would go back to you want all these.
I mean, Josh Hart is probably their second best ball
handler against pressure compared to Jalalen Brunton, and that's also yeah, okay, o,
g no more touches for you, and Michale Bridge is same.
If that's how we feel, So that I think I
might be on board now that that's the biggest need.
But what I'm struggling with is you need someone who's
going to be better than because where are those minutes
coming from? Okay, Jordan Clarkson's already kind of fallen out
of the rotation. It seems like Duce McBride has to
play a bunch, Jalen Brunson's going to play a bunch.
So if you go out and get a point guard,
are you cutting into Landry Shammit's minutes? Are you running smaller?
And if you're taking away from the wing minutes, you're not.
You don't have a ton of depth on the wings
to begin with. So I've kind of just looked at
it and said, the Knicks's most important lineup is gonna
be some variation of their top seven. And I don't
think you're gonna get a ball handler who is like
does enough for you to say, well, you can play
over Mitchell Robinson or Duce McBride in the playoffs when
it matters. And maybe that's a narrow minded way of thinking.
And that's why I've glombed on to just get some
like complimentary wings in here. Ye. Also they could be
thinking along the lines of Jake Fisher reported that the
wing market is so light, so maybe from the Knicks's perspective,
Would they prefer to get a Justin Shaneenny, Would they
prefer to get a Vince Williams Junior? Maybe? But the
wing market is just so sparse and the Knicks don't
have a ton of assets. Have they decided that getting
another ball handler might actually be the easiest thing for
them to do.
Speaker 2: I was just gonna say it. It has always seemed easy,
like Ryan Nemhart doesn't get drafted and comes out of nowhere.
There's it's just like the guys that can dribble and
make a play that probably almost almost always are like
a little undersized, but you don't need them to start,
Like those guys are out there, like there's g League
point guards. I think that you could go find. It's
as opposed to like we need a wing that's actually
gonna get minutes on a team that's like trying and
failing to like win the East, Like it's gonna be
really hard to get a difference making wing that is,
like you're saying, good enough to take minutes away from
your top seven guys. It's a lot easier to find
someone that's like maybe better than Tyler Kolek. So, given
their limited assets, don't don't you think, like, if you're
actually trying to be practical about it, it's just the
wing thing maybe just beyond their reach.
Speaker 1: You're right because you I think you boiled it down perfectly.
And now that I'm thinking about it, is you need
to be better than Is it easier for them to
get someone better than Tyler Koleik or Landry Shammitt Right
now it has probably been, if not their best, their
second best, just guy like trying to get around screens
on defense, which is that's not okay, that's not okay either.
I'm just saying, Joe shamit's.
Speaker 2: The guy that is chipping into the top seven minutes
right like, he's he's like number eight effectively, right.
Speaker 1: Like, So I just like, honestly, if we exclude I mean,
he might be over talents at this point.
Speaker 2: If Mike Brown, based on our recent conversation, starting to
sound like it, yeah, I don't know, it's it's it's difficult.
I mean, is it time to talk about so is
their biggest need? We should probably try to put a
button on on.
Speaker 1: Well, I just want to know where you stand because
I think you could go after targets that cover all three.
Just if it gets you off of Yabuseli's contract, You're
probably okay, that's enough grade by itself, But what would
you What.
Speaker 2: Do they mean like if you got to pick a
deficiency to address. I think I lean wing because we
have to talk about this team in a playoff context,
and those guys just matter more than the If it's
Colek that plays six minutes in a playoff game while
Brunson rest, it's just I think it's the wing.
Speaker 1: I think I think I'm with you because it's just
like you also, don't you seem now the big situation
with Mitchell Robinson, maybe that's where you're at risk of
injury most but Jalen Brunton is buying large been super durable,
and I trust that the offense during the regular season
can get by with Colic or if you have to
give the ball to Duce McBride. More so than I
need all these wings. Josh Hard has already missed time.
Mikel Bridges is an iron man, but he doesn't like
it when his minutes are too high. Oh g Ananobi,
there's always something going on with him. It feels like
they're just more vulnerable in a regular season context, but
also a playoff context, because yeah, it's a problem that
Jalen Brunson might be the best guy to handle prep,
but he's gonna play forty two minutes a game no
matter who your backup point guard is.
Speaker 2: That's the team you built. Like, I think what we're
learning is that like Jalen, Yeah, that's always like has
the ball a lot, like I think he wants to
play that way, and I think he's best utilized that way.
So it's just like, that's that's gonna be. I don't
think he's work.
Speaker 1: He's actually proven he can play a different way. They've
yet to prove that it's worth using him in a
different way. It's right, exactly like this is just this
is what you got, which is this isn't worth a conversation.
But I think they're finding even if Tom Thibodeau there
was a case to fire him. But and I did
say this, and I wasn't a Tips guy, the Knicks
are kind of just finding out that Tom Thibodau wasn't
their ceiling.
Speaker 2: The roster was interesting.
Speaker 1: That was the bigger issue than Tom Thibodeau.
Speaker 2: That was the unknown though right it wasn't clear it
wasn't at the time I found out that they did
find out. It does seem that they they found out.
Speaker 1: So do you have any names that you would be
said my interested in seeing the Knicks pursue I.
Speaker 2: Just like, again, if it's if it's the wing man,
is that hard to find somebody that they could actually
realistically go get?
Speaker 1: If I'm just asking questions Kershan Yabuselli and that Wizard's pick,
which is gonna be two first rounders the Wizard zone
in a two second issues two seconds back to the
Wizards for Justin Champagne.
Speaker 2: Mm, yeah, I mean I think if I'm the with
like listen, we are we support the Champagnies around here,
So I think I would say, like Washington, I guess
Washington might value getting that pick back enough to just
be like sure, but yeah, that he would help.
Speaker 1: Would you throw or is now does it well? Now
with something need a ball handler? Would you throw Tyler
Kohlick in there to get it done?
Speaker 2: I mean, based on my earlier contention that like you
can just go find a guy that can dribble for
like a few minutes every game, I think, like I
don't know, like I just Pat Spencer is on an
NBA roster, like could he he's he that different from
Tyler Coles just named brother duo?
Speaker 1: So is Cam Spencer? Wow?
Speaker 2: If you get Cam Spencer on the next Now you're talking.
Speaker 1: Honestly, Tyler Coolick that Wizard's and then another second for
Cam Spencer and maybe Abu's going to Memphis?
Speaker 2: Is that that's not you think Memphis would do that? No?
Speaker 1: Ya, I was kind of maybe Wish will think you No.
I I just it's so hard that Scottie Pippen, given
that he's not playing Scotty.
Speaker 2: You just why not? Tigerome makes too much?
Speaker 1: Uh? I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna need you to do names for this because
I just messed around, like what would I do for Cat?
Like all my fake trade, all my fake targets are
based on like could you get this for Cat?
Speaker 1: Jose Alvarado has been thrown around a lot.
Speaker 2: Do you play cool?
Speaker 1: But don't you think he's just sort of like another
Do you view him as he is a better ball handler?
Is he enough of a playmaking ball handling upgrade over Tyler?
Because he seems like he does a lot of the
same things Deuce McBride does. But he's a little bit.
I don't view him as just a a secondary driver
of offense. That's never been something that he's absolutely needed
to do in higher volume.
Speaker 2: With no he might like, you know, as an enter guyser,
Like maybe there's value there, But if you're if you
want someone that's like gonna be a setup guy that
is worth playing for that reason, probably not.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well Yabu is just like not he's not a factor,
So so yeah, you'll take You'll take Alvarado like getting
a couple of steals in the back court and just
like playing hard and that's a bit bigger value add
than zero, which is what Yaboo's providing. I'm trying to
think of, Just like who.
Speaker 1: Is a uh Io? The money gets a little tougher,
Yabu seconds does that the magic?
Speaker 2: Don't see him in on Tias Jones anymore? Can you
can give Tias Jones someone that would actually play?
Speaker 1: He's not playing in the playoffs, right, I think Io
is more likely to play in the playoffs. What about it?
Speaker 2: Are you are you categorizing iowas addressing the ball handler
thing or the wing need because you can't.
Speaker 1: He's kind of a middle ground of because he does both,
but none of them nearly good enough to be the answer.
But if you can put, if you can half check
multiple boxes, I think that's more valuable than leaning all
the way in one direction.
Speaker 2: What about the wings, I'm like, at such a total
loss for a gettable wing that would actually matter.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they need to be cheap like it, because
if you're not trading Mitchell Robinson or one of your
core players. They like Sadiq Bay.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was thinking like Royce O'Neill, but he's like
a ten million dollar guy. And the sun, Yeah, they
can super good for the sun, So why are they
doing that?
Speaker 1: What about so oh Chiak Baji he's under seven million,
that's all defense.
Speaker 2: Everything is Matisse Staibel healthy. He's eleven point five. Sorry
forget it. I didn't realize he was making that much.
Speaker 1: Jesus, Yeah, I mean that is the like at this point,
because the bucks are cooked. Does Gary Trent Junior that
he probably qualifies as like an upgrade? I mean they
have no wings at this point.
Speaker 2: Or Gary Harris.
Speaker 1: I mean I'd prefer Gary Trent Junior if you don't mind,
so what I I'm just trying to be realistic about it.
We're an agreement, and this isn't the wing, but we're
an agreement. They don't have enough to get Cam Spencer, right,
I don't think so. No, So do they have enough
to get Jaron Jackson Jr? They enough to get Vince
Williams Junior? Do you think he only has one year
left on his deal at the cheap rate?
Speaker 2: Maybe I could see that. That's certainly more likely to
me than Cam Spencer. I'm looking at the Lakers just because.
Speaker 1: They have no I mean, do they have enough to
that'd be interesting?
Speaker 2: That was the name that jumped out. He's a six
million this year and next. I mean the Yaboo salary
matches because Yabu makes like five and changed, doesn't he?
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, what about again? The money here is tricky,
but they could do it, Naji Marshall if you put
enough seconds in or yeah?
Speaker 2: Is that the sweeteners? I don't know if they've got
enough to make Dallas interested in that? Marshall will be
perfect perfect, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean the wings that wouldn't make sense for them
are just it's rough. If you're like with the salaries,
we know they're willing to give up. Do you think
Detroit would move on from Davonte Green.
Speaker 2: I was just looking, you're in my head man, I
was just like, could you So.
Speaker 1: This has been a popular deal because that what they
could do is trade duce McBride, who I think we
could agree has not like golden ticket first round pick,
but you would give up a first round pick for
duce McBride probably.
Speaker 2: Right, we'd have the conversation for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The trade that's been proposed in some variation was duce
McBride for Tari Easan.
Speaker 2: Hmmm, that's interesting.
Speaker 1: I think what my issue with that would be, aside
from Tari Easton gets paid one year earlier. And my
second issue would be I don't think the Rockets do it,
but if they were willing to do it, you have
to go out and then get another trade because what
you're doing is like, is Tari Easton all of a
sudden gonna be your primary point of attack defender? Got
you want him to be able to do other things,
so and he's not. You don't trust him. He's not
the like I trust duce McBride dribbling the ball more
than Tari Easan. Yeah, so like you would almost need
to say, well, we're getting we're trading Duce McBride because
we got Jose Alvarado or we got Iyo des Soon
MoU or something.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, Eastan would mean there's another deal. I think
it's address because I mean when he has the knicks
though in a vacuum, the McBride for Ethan, the what's
m what's Deuce's contract situation?
Speaker 1: He's making what he's making like three point nine million
next year? Man, that's I.
Speaker 2: Mean, you shouldn't and with what Easan might end up making. Well,
that's the other thing is like what we just went over,
there going to be sixteen under the second.
Speaker 1: You're not keeping Mitch and tar Easan and avoiding the second.
You're already probably not keeping Mitch and avoiding the second Apron.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I mean, man, I think you might.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm I'm coming around to that. The It just it
just feels like so now now you're still you're building
a team. That's like, well, this makes sense with Cat
because Easton could just be the other front court guy
and you just stay huge and it's like, wow, you
know that Bridges is your middle three. So it's Kat
O g Easton Bridges Brunson is your starting five.
Speaker 1: And then no, I guarantee you almost East would come
off the bench. I'd be curious still starting heart that
lineup has not been good enough, I think to guarantee that.
So maybe not, but closing unit would be interesting because
I think you could make the case that even if
josh Hart's three is are full, I don't know, because
Josh Hart is a ball handler and playment, they have
some they have some tough calls to make at the
end of games.
Speaker 2: I think part of me has hung up on if
you move McBride, you just have an even greater need
for like some backcourt help that so like you're just
kind of move, You're just shuffling the need around a
little bit. But we've said that their biggest issue is
wing depth, and so Easan does address that. If you
believe Easan's gonna be able.
Speaker 1: To shoot, do you think the Rockets do that?
Speaker 2: I mean, well, if we're talking about needs, they do
need another like scoring shooting, like ball handling guard much
more than they need like another tough like front court
defensive piece. So I think maybe the needs line up enough,
and if the Rockets are just like we got a
lot of guys to pay here. Uh, and so Easan
just can't beg they believe in.
Speaker 1: Like DFS staying like reserviceable as a part.
Speaker 2: Easan's lights out from three this year? Do you know
Easan's shooting forty seven percent from three right now?
Speaker 1: Oh so we dropped? Wasn't he over fifty percent?
Speaker 2: I I've not been paying attention.
Speaker 1: He's he's minutes that this year. I feel like he's
never playing enough minutes whenever I watched.
Speaker 2: Twenty four just under twenty four nine starts, twenty three appearances.
Speaker 1: I think for the Rockets, I just I don't know
if dudes mcbro checks enough of the ball handling boxes
that they would. But they have Ruth Shepherd too, And
so it's like, why are we trying to address you
know what I mean?
Speaker 2: Like it would just be because you've decided Easton is
duplicative and and like that's a position of strength for
you as Houston as it is, and.
Speaker 1: You just like we got you cost control someone for
an extra year.
Speaker 2: And you're you're worried about like are we gonna pay
t Easton twenty to twenty five million dollars a year
or something? Who knows? But like you just you just
eliminate that from your list of worries. I guess I
don't know. It's it's not it's hard to imagine that happening,
But like you could justify it from both sides, I
don't know, maybe even more so from Houston's.
Speaker 1: Too.
Speaker 2: Would you say, is Eastan a better player than duce
McBride in a vacuum?
Speaker 1: I think that he is a more desirable player because
of the archetype that he like, he can check, like, yeah,
I think.
Speaker 2: That if he's gonna make threes, he is.
Speaker 1: I think, yeah, it's a yeah, it's not even a question.
I think if he's gonna be healthy and make threes.
What you could say that about anyone, but duce McBride,
the best version of him is still six to two right.
Speaker 2: Right, right, you're not there's no if about well, if
he's if he's six seven, uh, then you're talking right,
that's non negotiable.
Speaker 1: Good point, Arren Shannon Junior. Again, they have seconds to
give up to Minnesota, but as is Minnesota that out
on Tarreon Shannon Jr.
Speaker 2: Hard to say, Yeah, I mean that that that might
be the level of player that you're gonna have to
ultimately settle for like the Easton thing is not gonna happen.
Speaker 1: No, So I do have a name that's a big man,
and I want to see if you know where I'm
going with this.
Speaker 2: I'm fascinated.
Speaker 1: Would they be open to now discussing given the current
set of circumstances? Do you like my teaser here? What
does it take to get al Horford from the Warriors
at this point?
Speaker 2: Hmmm, Well, I think it takes Al Horford's consent probably.
I think he's because he's gonna have to want to
go where you're sending him. Asset wise, you know, you could.
Speaker 1: Get the Wizard second out of them, which is gonna
be number thirty four, plus another second like that comes
with that. They have other seconds to give, So is.
Speaker 2: The offer Yaboo and some seconds or whatever.
Speaker 1: They're probably there are. Ironically, you would probably get Yabo
or Dottie with the other one going to a third
team because neither of the war because Yabu makes less
than Horford since he took a little bit less than
the Mini mL E, so they can't be a perfect
match and the Warriors can't take back more money than
they receive. Right, they're hard capped at the uh so
kept the first Yeah, because they use the mini. Did
they get which more do they have beneath the first apron?
Though we did their trade at mine primer, so I
should know this, but I don't.
Speaker 2: It's like, oh, like eleven looks.
Speaker 1: Like eleven million dollars beneath the first apron.
Speaker 2: That's what spo tracks spot track has it as right.
Speaker 1: Well, then I'm gonna throw anyway. It'd be the construction
would be you're taking on Yabu in seconds.
Speaker 2: Hmmm. I don't know if that's enough because Horford does
have the player option for next year, and clearly the
Warriors are you lock him? You lock him certainty? Yeah?
I guess maybe it just like which would you like
to have their player option picked up? That would be
a great deal for the Knicks, is what I would say.
I don't. I don't know if you're going to be
able to get him for Yabu in seconds.
Speaker 1: Really, like even if it's like a total of three. So, like,
I just what is the Warriors endgame?
Speaker 2: Dan? There has to be demand. I don't know, if
you heard Mike Dunlevy, it's just you know, I don't know.
Hoer is a better player. It's just like, that's that's
all there is to I maybe a couple seconds, I
don't know. It's just hard for me to think of
the deal that's like that that the Warriors have swung,
you know, like where they're just like, we'll we'll take
these incremental like late.
Speaker 1: Confidence in Quinton Post.
Speaker 2: Though yes it would, they don't. They don't seem to
value those kinds of deals. So that's a good that's
a good name. Though it would address a lot.
Speaker 1: Because they do have the Wizard second, the Knicks, they
also have the that's not a good pick. They have
a second round pick from Phoenix and or Indiana less
favorable in twenty twenty eight. That could be interesting. They
have their they have their own twenty thirty two second
round pick. So if you're looking at the Wizards second
and that twenty thirty two second is that are we there?
Speaker 2: When Cannon Curry is running the team for Big Old
and State, he's just fresh out of middle school. Uh,
what was I gonna say? The Warriors only like to
pick fifty or later in the second round. That's where
all the success they've had it. So you have to guarantee,
you have to protect all those seconds so they can
only fall fiftieth or later and.
Speaker 1: The top fifty five protected to be protected.
Speaker 2: Yew.
Speaker 1: Horford was the name I think because big wise, I
just don't like Dayron Sharp the Knicks. I think he's
Dayren Sharp at this point is getting more than al
Horford would in a trade, right for sure?
Speaker 2: I think I think so what about like I'm justum
Andre Drummond, Like he's probably too valuable to the Sixers
to even think about moving.
Speaker 1: But if if they're looking, if there's other team.
Speaker 2: If Bead's playing forty six minutes a night, maybe not,
but I don't see that continuing.
Speaker 1: Could they get Jock Landale from Memphis? But again, that's great.
Horford would be interesting to me because he could play
if you really wanted to with Mitch or Cat, if
you really wanted to go that direction.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Landale kind of kind of I don't know. Yeah,
Horford is kind of unique in that respect.
Speaker 1: That's really all I got. I earn any names, whether
it's wings guard you want to throw out there, I
just I don't.
Speaker 2: Know if this is probably gonna take us down a
road we don't want to go. But just like if
you're are there any you've done cat trades? But like,
is there? I'm just the money's so tricky? Is there
like a construction where you can make it happen? For
like I don't know, Jalen Green and like Mark Williams
are like the principles coming. There's a million different moving parts,
like can you send it a new New Orleans where
you get back like her been eve me c for
another big and like Jordan Poole because or Dejonte to
take back like terrible money to make it work? Like
are there any crazy constructions like that where the Knicks
would even like want to think about it?
Speaker 1: The the New Orleans one is interesting from the Knix's perspective,
But I don't know if you have Zion and Derek Queen,
why you want to integrate Cat'.
Speaker 2: The thing is that all these are like why does
this team want Cat? It makes it with Zion, but
it didn't make now it doesn't with Queen there too.
Speaker 1: Right, Let's I guess if they really want to get
off Pool's money for next year and de Jontay Murray's contract,
I think would have to be both of them, and
then you'll take back something else like I think that
would be what, like, they're not getting eaves me if
they get eaves me C as part of that trade,
I guess, Okay, so eaves me Cy Murray and pools
too much.
Speaker 2: At that point, I was trying to do it where
it's like they just do Pool and and and Murray
and just take on this horrible money but split in
half for Cat kind of reverse the Cat for Randall
and trade. I just it's like, what if you're the Knicks.
Speaker 1: I just is there a team that you think would
actually be a reasonable fit for Cat? We Orlando I
think is at least reasonable to consider.
Speaker 2: But that's the best you could do. I think all
the rest of this is that we probably, like I said.
Speaker 1: Chicago, I don't need to they have all those expiring contracts.
Speaker 2: So you're like herder Io, I mean, you want to
consign yourself to mediocrity in Chicago. That's You've got to
figure it out if you do that.
Speaker 1: I'm trying. I'm going through the alphabet. Okay, this team Dallas, Like,
is there what are karl anthy Towns for Anthony Davis? Swap?
Get you going at all?
Speaker 2: For the Knicks? For the Knicks, I was doing that. Yeah,
I would rather sign up for the Anthony Davis, Like,
what might we have to pay him slash? Is he
just do we just lose him for nothing?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: Is Kat at the lawy? Here's the question? Maybe stop here?
Is Kat at the level where you would just trade
him so you don't have to pay him after this year?
Are we there?
Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not because I just don't like what
is the alternative path? Then if the alternative path is
you're you don't pay Towns, but you're paying Anthony Davis,
who takes a lot away from you on offense, doesn't
like to play center, and is never available. Kat's at
least more available. So I just I'm not there yet.
But that's more so because the rest of the league
might be if that makes sense, if all you can
get is the Tree Young return, I'm because let's throw
Anthony Davis out of the equation. But like, would Dallas
stack contracts together of just like if they get off
Klay Thompson's money and they can't even do it because
I do they still.
Speaker 2: Think defense wins championships in Dallas? That might be a hangout.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Town's next to flag, uh right? I mean,
Kyrie is there, so that could once he comes back,
that get like next to flag. And if Nagie Marshall
is still there, you have Daniel Gafford, and if Derek
Lively is ever healthy again, it could make some sense.
Speaker 2: If I'm the Knicks, I would trade Cat for Anthony
Davis tomorrow, Like just just sign me up for the
other the other headache.
Speaker 1: But you're at the points like there's like a chance
Anthony Davis just doesn't play again this season.
Speaker 2: That's yeah, and.
Speaker 1: You're fine, there's yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean like, is it just better to be out
of the Cat business at all? Like because that's that
is like that's a possibility if you trade him for Davis.
I was gonna say someone like Davis, but there if
you traded him for Davis, yeah.
Speaker 1: I guess I will say. I'm not worried about as
other people are about Anthony Davis wanting an extension. I'm
very much of the mont he's entered his career. Okay,
opt out and you go find that money and then
you come talk to us like we're not giving you
a back exten So yeah, this is it's tough. I
think think that they're basically they decided that this was
the roster. They made that decision this past offseason. Look,
by the way, we haven't talked about this. I don't
know who needs to hear this. The Knicks aren't winning
a title this season, and there's I don't think you
could guarantee that they're gonna make it out of the
first round either. Like this team is not it doesn't
have I hate boiling it down to this, but I've
watched probably more of them than any other team. They
don't have it. It's not that they don't have it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and no, I was gonna I was thinking about
this before we recorded. I think it was about the Knicks.
There's a couple other teams, but it's just like, you know,
sometimes you can just tell when the vibes are off,
and it's like, really you think it's just like sometimes
that actually does I know, we like to not analyze
a team from that perspective, but it's just like sometimes
it's just not working, and it doesn't it's got to
do with what's happening on the floor. But like that's
an offshoot of just kind of like how these guys
feel about each other maybe, or how they feel about
Mike Brown because some of that started to bubble up.
And I don't think you're wrong. I think it's just
like sometimes you can watch a team and it's just like,
this doesn't feel like it.
Speaker 1: And it's the vibes. It's also I think when you
dig it's the personnel. Sure, the other stuff we talked
about independent of cat, it's it's this wrong a ceiling.
Speaker 2: And that's and that begets frustration and that's a feedback
loop of like now we kind of like each other
less because this isn't working because of the actual on court.
It's it all you know, it feeds itself.
Speaker 1: Are you ready to take us out of here? Sir?
We did, of course. We did fifty plus minute on
the Knicks. You can't do jack shit trade that line.
Speaker 2: We talked about a lot of things they couldn't and
shouldn't do. Thanks everybody for listening, for watching. Remember to
rate and review and subscribely with some comments on YouTube.
Let us know what you think if we missed any
option that the Knicks have. I'd love to.
Speaker 1: Hear it, but I don't. Also, I don't know who
he's hear this. You're not getting Jaron Jackson Junior for
Karl Anthony Towns. Like I know, people are all wonder
probably not. Are these players worth on these They're not superstars,
but they're on these expensive deals.
Speaker 2: They're not.
Speaker 1: It's not no, especially now when the Knicks have no
first round picks.
Speaker 2: That's there's no sweeteners anywhere. I'm joining our discord links
for that. In the YouTube and podcast description, shouts to
former New York Knick Franklin Lakina. Apologies to probably not
future New York Nick Jared Allen