Speaker 1: Welcome to my world.
Speaker 2: Bitch, wow, god good here.
Speaker 1: Welcome to the one hundred and sixty seventh episode of
Speaker 1: the Supernatural Current Studies podcast.
Speaker 3: So iraq Nically Paranormal.
Speaker 1: My name is Jason Knight, host of the show, and
Speaker 1: with me, as.
Speaker 3: Always is Oscar Spector.
Speaker 1: Producer Extraordinary and podcast co hosts.
Speaker 3: The fuck word was that I made it up Iraq
Speaker 3: iraqnically the Iraq.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 3: That's why I said, oh shit right before, because I
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I didn't think of a word.
Speaker 1: I don't think. Yeah, you've and all these episodes, I
Speaker 1: don't think you've ever like repeated a word.
Speaker 3: No, actually, sure, so I actually did, have you I did?
Speaker 3: I used the same one twice, not thinking, not putting
Speaker 3: it in my unchecked box and my apps and my notes.
Speaker 3: Oh so I fucked up. But that's it. That's only
Speaker 3: one to fuck up.
Speaker 1: That's a right. We'll let it go. Let it go.
Speaker 1: It's pretty impressive that I have one hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: seven episodes more with bonuses.
Speaker 3: Well, well, no, I've only started this recently. I haven't
Speaker 3: I haven't done this. I'm giving you too much credit, right,
Speaker 3: It might be a little bit not like, well, it's
Speaker 3: just yeah, anyway, I've done this like as a gag before,
Speaker 3: but it wasn't consistent until recently.
Speaker 1: Got it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what I mean. That's what I mean.
Speaker 1: Well, well what you went up to? Man, it's been
Speaker 1: a month. You went to Mexico?
Speaker 3: Yeah, actually Mexico went to me. I folded time and
Speaker 3: space folded it onto Chicago and made them come to me.
Speaker 3: It was very interesting. Don't recommend it.
Speaker 1: There's just so many jokes. I'm just not going to
Speaker 1: do it.
Speaker 3: What even what even?
Speaker 1: People are way too sensitive these things.
Speaker 3: Okay, I didn't even know where you were going. I'm
Speaker 3: just curious as a matter of you know whatever. Uh yeah,
Speaker 3: I went to kN Kun for a destination wedding. We
Speaker 3: went through this, of course, and you haven't into one.
Speaker 1: I have wait what My mom's one who corrected me,
Speaker 1: will you?
Speaker 3: Mam listened to the episode and she's like, bitch, you've
Speaker 3: been to a destination wedding and you forgot about it.
Speaker 1: I did, Please tell me my best.
Speaker 3: Friend's best friend's wedding?
Speaker 1: When when remember I went to New Orleans for a
Speaker 1: destination wedding?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: Who which friend?
Speaker 1: Surveio? Okay minister sal Yeah, listeners.
Speaker 3: He also his wedding. I didn't know his wedding wasn't
Speaker 3: because I didn't go to New ORLEANSKA New Orleans. That counts.
Speaker 3: You did it.
Speaker 1: I did it. Yeah, he was married by the voodoo
Speaker 1: queen Bloody Mary. But it was the ceremony was at
Speaker 1: Muriel's Jackson Square, which is haunted.
Speaker 3: And you forgot about this, fucking forgot. You know why
Speaker 3: you forgot about it because you that was because you know,
Speaker 3: you go to newr owns all the time, all the time,
Speaker 3: so you must have just complained it as a regular
Speaker 3: daily or yearly a vacation spot. Yeah, and you just
Speaker 3: confused it.
Speaker 1: But that was my that was my one destiny.
Speaker 3: So you did do it.
Speaker 1: So not everybody hates me.
Speaker 3: It's not everybody hated right, And also everyone else I asked,
Speaker 3: they all said, no, I've never been to one till
Speaker 3: you know, now whatever, not the Cantcon one.
Speaker 1: So what happened in cancuon anything crazy? Any crazy Mexican stories?
Speaker 3: No, not Mexican stories. I mean I went to a
Speaker 3: resort in Puerto Morelos. I think it was called Porto.
Speaker 1: Is that the name of the hotel?
Speaker 3: That's the name of the place, the town, because yeah,
Speaker 3: it's like forty minutes or thirty minutes from cancuon proper
Speaker 3: is not in Cancun, you know what I'm saying. It's
Speaker 3: in a resort in Porto or Morelos. I think that's
Speaker 3: the name of it. I'm not grave with names, but
Speaker 3: you know they have they don't. They don't own the beaches,
Speaker 3: but they kind of have it closed off. So it
Speaker 3: seems like the resort owns the beaches, but the beaches
Speaker 3: are federal proper ready anyone can call on them, but
Speaker 3: they have their own side of beech area pretty big.
Speaker 3: I happened to stay, so I'll give two anadots. One
Speaker 3: about the resort itself. My first time ever and this
Speaker 3: kind of thing all inclusive. No, I did not try
Speaker 3: my hardest to stay drunk all the time to make
Speaker 3: it worth it. But I did get drunk, I mean once,
Speaker 3: and that was pretty I was buzzed for most of
Speaker 3: the time, Okay, a little lesson buzz. I tried to
Speaker 3: get drunk a few times. I just couldn't.
Speaker 1: I wonder if they were watering down the drinks.
Speaker 3: Probably, but I don't know. Some of them. You could
Speaker 3: feel that were strong. The Roman Cokes was the strongest
Speaker 3: they have, like coconut margarita stuff.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Also that was like yeah, obviously resort drinks. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 3: a lot of a lot of hools I had. I
Speaker 3: had never been out on an infinity pool, I don't
Speaker 3: think until until this time.
Speaker 1: So okay, they.
Speaker 3: Have rooftop infinity pool bars. No kids allowed. I was
Speaker 3: up on that motherfucker every day. Any mamitas, No, not
Speaker 3: like that. No, No, A lot of great mom I
Speaker 3: see that brid's mates, but they're all taken. So you know, well, okay,
Speaker 3: I'm not going to break up a home. What am
Speaker 3: I anyway? What am I thirty? I'm not so uh.
Speaker 3: I want to mention that I got the best room accidentally.
Speaker 3: I got the best offer at the time, and I
Speaker 3: guess they were offering their newest part of the resort
Speaker 3: during when I bought my stay, and I happened to
Speaker 3: have one of the best rooms that anyone else didn't have.
Speaker 3: Is I had his amazing tub and I had a
Speaker 3: hammock on the patio like on a balcony thing. It
Speaker 3: was nice.
Speaker 1: Did your balcony overlook the ocean and stuff?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: It didn't. It wasn't. It wasn't an ocean view. I'm
Speaker 3: pretty sure those costs more. But it was. It was
Speaker 3: jungle view. It was all right there, that's it's really cool.
Speaker 1: You.
Speaker 3: No, I saw a lot of trash pandas.
Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah, there's there's raccoons.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, really yeah everywhere?
Speaker 1: Do they carry knives a little switchblades?
Speaker 3: No, they don't know, they don't careful. You're fine. Don't worry, folks,
Speaker 3: I got them and uh no, but I saw them
Speaker 3: sticking around inside every night. I would see them sticking
Speaker 3: around the stairs because it's all outdoors. Almost all the
Speaker 3: buildings are kind of outdoorsy, and they were sneaking around
Speaker 3: looking at going through the trash our trash.
Speaker 1: I I didn't realize. Yeah, I thought there was.
Speaker 3: Like and I saw lemurs. People were correcting me. You
Speaker 3: didn't see a lemur. I'm like, I saw something like
Speaker 3: one then like a leader you see monkeys. Oh, I
Speaker 3: did see something like I don't know I can tell
Speaker 3: you what it was. I thought it was limeur ish,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe a lynx or something. Rypto take a
Speaker 3: lot of lizards to a bunch of lizards. Yeah, anyway,
Speaker 3: so the wedding itself. I want to get into the
Speaker 3: wedding because it's a funny story. The one day I
Speaker 3: actually did get really toasted, really drunk, drunk enough I
Speaker 3: threw up is the day, the day of the wedding.
Speaker 3: So the wedding ceremony started around five pm and it
Speaker 3: went into the night, of course, so I was like, oh,
Speaker 3: I have all this time. I was up at ten,
Speaker 3: you know whatever, I was up at the pool. I
Speaker 3: didn't have I wasn't our groomsmen, so I didn't have
Speaker 3: any duties before the ceremony. I was just there for
Speaker 3: to enjoy the ride. So I was up and I
Speaker 3: was talking to a bunch of strangers, making up stories
Speaker 3: about myself. Was great, and they kept giving me drinks
Speaker 3: and I kept not saying no. So by the time
Speaker 3: I got out of the water, I realized I was drunk.
Speaker 3: That's when I realized it. I went to my room
Speaker 3: to start getting kind of ready, shower and all that
Speaker 3: I threw my I threw up a lot in the
Speaker 3: hotel room. Right. I had enough time to take an
Speaker 3: hour nap, and I was surprised that I woke up
Speaker 3: in time to get ready and dress. I'm surprised I
Speaker 3: put on the correct clothes because I was still wasted.
Speaker 3: I'm surprised I did. Anything I didn't get to do
Speaker 3: was shave. But it wasn't that bad. But it was,
Speaker 3: but I still sort of shaved. Besides that, I didn't
Speaker 3: forget anything. Surprisingly, I put on the right suit, the
Speaker 3: right pants, the right shirt, and I went down there
Speaker 3: and everyone, you know, the people that know me, A
Speaker 3: lot of the friends there, they're like, are you wasted? Like, fuck, yes,
Speaker 3: I'm wasted. So I had two of our friends maybe
Speaker 3: sit me, one of them in particular, and on my
Speaker 3: way to the walk cup. So the walk up it
Speaker 3: was like it's like a walk up thing that's set
Speaker 3: on the beach itself, so on both sides of the water,
Speaker 3: and you walk up to the beach. That's where all
Speaker 3: the chairs were at where the ceremony was. Yeah, it
Speaker 3: was a beautiful one point picturesque. On my way up
Speaker 3: to it, I threw up on the side. Nobody animals, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I threw up. No hold on, I threw up on
Speaker 3: the side, and everyone's so oil didn't fall in into
Speaker 3: the rocks, into the water. I didn't, and I sat
Speaker 3: in the very back. Luckily, the bride was nowhere near
Speaker 3: me because she wasn't up there yet. I hadn't started yet,
Speaker 3: and then I was. I barely remember the ceremony, don't remember.
Speaker 3: I had to get my collections from people in my
Speaker 3: drunken stupor. I took photos that I forgot pretty well,
Speaker 3: and I don't remember much of it. But so I
Speaker 3: powered through that. There was like a little swarry back
Speaker 3: before we went to the reception area and a different beach.
Speaker 3: But by the time I got there, I was fine,
Speaker 3: and I was dancing and parting and way more sober.
Speaker 3: At the reception, I didn't anymore. I did not drinking.
Speaker 3: I just drank water. But I powered through it and
Speaker 3: I made my way back out of it. So I
Speaker 3: almost ruined the wedding, but I didn't.
Speaker 1: That's congrats on holding it together.
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 1: That's what men do.
Speaker 3: People were surprised it up, and people were surprised that
Speaker 3: I was white knuckling through it. I'm like, I'm gonna
Speaker 3: be okay, fuck you, I'm gonna do it.
Speaker 1: I did the pool, the sun, the heat, the drinks.
Speaker 1: It'll hit you fast, man.
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 1: So I fell for it, all right. So that story
Speaker 1: one story two.
Speaker 3: You want another one?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Okay, so you had two. No, the first one was
Speaker 3: like I would describe like my room.
Speaker 1: Oh god, so no wild like wedding. What's the wedding
Speaker 1: crashers movie with Owen Wilson and the other guy.
Speaker 3: Nobody crashed it?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Oh I did do something. Okay, there is a second story.
Speaker 3: This is fun. This is a one time thing, once
Speaker 3: in a lifetime thing. Maybe I went snorkeling for the
Speaker 3: first time. Yeah, that was gonna be some crazy see. Okay,
Speaker 3: here's the thing. Have you I'm sure you've done. You've
Speaker 3: done snorkeling a million times. Yeah, that's the thing. I've
Speaker 3: never done it. Wow, I've never Jake. The last time
Speaker 3: I've seen the ocean was at least fifteen years ago.
Speaker 1: Wow. Okay, So I can't live that way. I couldn't
Speaker 1: live that way.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I mean I see the ocean as often as possible.
Speaker 3: That's fine. But for me, I grew up here. I
Speaker 3: grew up by a huge lake.
Speaker 1: Sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm saying is I grew up here. I don't
Speaker 3: know a life with an ocean. So I was out
Speaker 3: in the middle of the ocean. I was in one
Speaker 3: of the one of those reefs that they have, apparently
Speaker 3: one of the rare reefs around there. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I was out there. It was the most terrifying, fucking
Speaker 3: two hours of my life. Jay. I spent a legit
Speaker 3: hour completely terrified. I was in a die out there.
Speaker 1: Do you think it was gonna happen?
Speaker 2: It was?
Speaker 1: I What do you mean, what was gonna happen? What
Speaker 1: were you afraid of dying?
Speaker 3: Drowning? Drowning, drowning? Yeah, oh, I'm not gonna say a shark. No,
Speaker 3: nothing so glamorous. I was just afraid of drowning. Dude.
Speaker 3: The water kept going into the tube and then I
Speaker 3: just spit it out, like yeah, I was doing that,
Speaker 3: but then one of my slipper of things came unfastened.
Speaker 3: That was freaking the fuck out because they're telling you
Speaker 3: not to stand because they don't want your judge in
Speaker 3: the No. I know, and I didn't, but like I was, like,
Speaker 3: there were moments where I was freaking the fuck out.
Speaker 1: What do you think of the taste of ocean water?
Speaker 3: I made one of the other people from the wedding
Speaker 3: party throw up because I think she swallowed too much.
Speaker 1: That's happened to me before that.
Speaker 3: That didn't happen to me. I didn't throw up. I
Speaker 3: sucked it up. I went through it. Two of other
Speaker 3: friends stayed behind the boat. They couldn't do it. I
Speaker 3: was like, no, I'm gonna fucking do it. It looks terrifying,
Speaker 3: but I'll do it. It's so vast, though, How do
Speaker 3: people fucking go out there all the fucking time. It's
Speaker 3: fucking It's insane. You people are stupid anyway, So I'm
Speaker 3: never doing that again. But I was out there.
Speaker 1: I was out there for doing it.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 3: It took like a forty minute or more maybe now,
Speaker 3: I don't remember on the boat to go out far
Speaker 3: enough to be out there.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And we saw barracuda, We saw turtles, we saw schools
Speaker 3: of fish. We saw somebody saw a man ray, I
Speaker 3: really wanted to see one. Somebody als saw a shark.
Speaker 3: I didn't see that. Bro Okay, drink some whiskey and
Speaker 3: but it was fine. I don't regret so half of
Speaker 3: it was terrified. That I have was pretty beautiful and cool.
Speaker 1: Did you get photos?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: I didn't have a bag for my phone or okay,
Speaker 3: I didn't have any set up at all. This was
Speaker 3: paid by the groom. It was like all set up
Speaker 3: in advance day after the wedding. So that's what you did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I've never done that before the story, So
Speaker 3: to me, that's like a brand new thing. It's like
Speaker 3: going to a roller coaster for the first time, you know. Uh,
Speaker 3: but never again, Okay, never again. I don't think so, man,
Speaker 3: it's just nah, not son.
Speaker 1: White people could have this too.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you can fucking have it. There's a reason white
Speaker 3: people drowned that submarine thing three years ago or whatever
Speaker 3: it was. Yeah, no, no, thank you.
Speaker 1: Are you talking about yeah, the Richmond Ocean.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, there's a reason they were white, fucking crazy,
Speaker 3: crazy nuts anyway, great, Yeah, roughly those are two stories.
Speaker 1: You showed me some the pictures looked great, looked beautiful.
Speaker 3: I did I remember that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah you did. So I'm glad you had a
Speaker 1: good time.
Speaker 3: If you had my snapchat, you would have seen the
Speaker 3: whole thing.
Speaker 1: I don't do all that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm just saying your wife did. I think she
Speaker 3: has good good for her, and she didn't to show
Speaker 3: your name. She damn she don't care.
Speaker 1: No, we don't talk.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that's roughly the escapades.
Speaker 1: That's great. I think it's awesome. Good for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, glad you had no crazy sex.
Speaker 1: You're safe. Yeah, you're like quadruples. No, the way you
Speaker 1: get down.
Speaker 3: Uh, the way I try to get down is different
Speaker 3: from the way I actually get down. But but no,
Speaker 3: nothing like that even remotely. I didn't think about it. Answer.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just yeah, I kept thinking, I'm like
Speaker 1: man asks probably in Mexico having him some sex, right, I.
Speaker 3: Just wanted to get drunk. I think the most closest
Speaker 3: I was the first day I was there. I was
Speaker 3: in Cancun, the city proper because our a cousin that
Speaker 3: lives there. We stayed with him. I stayed with him,
Speaker 3: sorry where I got B and B nearby and we
Speaker 3: were in the city for the first day. Fucking hot
Speaker 3: as fuck. We walked everywhere too. We can't have a
Speaker 3: car available, which is fine. We didn't mind it, but like, damn,
Speaker 3: but that was the only time I was like meeting
Speaker 3: people more. Okay, yeah, well it was fine. Like it's
Speaker 3: a water city, pretty hot, lot of palm trees.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you, what is Cancun like the
Speaker 1: city of.
Speaker 3: So it's like it's like it's like it's like Vegas
Speaker 3: in the sense that a very touristy, a lot of
Speaker 3: touristy stuff, like a lot of like vendors on the
Speaker 3: street that have a whole areas that could be a
Speaker 3: park for another city is just vendor city, like little
Speaker 3: vendors of anything tequila to hand bags, two T shirts,
Speaker 3: whatever it is. Yeah, everything's still cheap there, dude. I
Speaker 3: bought because I need to break my vape all. I
Speaker 3: was like, I'm gonna smoke cigarettes for this trip. I
Speaker 3: smoked a lot, but I think I bought like two
Speaker 3: or three packs, plus a water, plus a toothpaste because
Speaker 3: I've forgotten my toothpaste when I came over. All like
Speaker 3: twenty dollars US.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and two packs of cigarettes is more than twenty bucks.
Speaker 3: One pack in the city in nineteen dollars in the
Speaker 3: city eighteen something. Yeah, you're lying. I'm not lying. I'm sitting.
Speaker 1: When I quit smoking, I think it was eight dollars
Speaker 1: a pack, eight or nine.
Speaker 3: You quit that long ago.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's been a while.
Speaker 3: While it's been a while, they've been steadily increasing it.
Speaker 3: Now you've been.
Speaker 1: Almost twenty dollars for a single pack.
Speaker 3: I could buy almost a box of them. I actually did.
Speaker 3: I went to the duty free store on my way
Speaker 3: out on the fort. Of course, I got a carton
Speaker 3: for fifty three dollars.
Speaker 1: Fifty three dollars.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they'd be like three hundred dollars in the city.
Speaker 3: No shit, I'm not kidding. Well, maybe two hundred, but yeah,
Speaker 3: something like that. It's a long so glad. It's a
Speaker 3: lot of money.
Speaker 1: That's nuts.
Speaker 3: I guess maybe two hundreds closer. Yeah, but either way,
Speaker 3: a lot more. So I bought it. I figured I
Speaker 3: saw some more, use them here and there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I sell some, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, got a racket. Yeah, what's the big deal?
Speaker 1: I can't do that.
Speaker 3: Everything good for us. Remember that scene when the cows
Speaker 3: came over, like, id's you want?
Speaker 1: Of course?
Speaker 2: I know?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you know what he's like. He's like, it's okay.
Speaker 3: He's like no, it's not okay.
Speaker 1: No, He's like, no, no, it's fine, it's fine. No,
Speaker 1: it's not dude, I just had a hundred proof whiskey
Speaker 1: come through my nose.
Speaker 3: It's not that I'll sell some yeah, i'll sell something. Ever,
Speaker 3: it's a big deal. People are desperad bro hard times.
Speaker 1: Good times. I love it. Yeah, I love it, and
Speaker 1: I love you. I don't have anything as exciting. I
Speaker 1: had a birthday.
Speaker 3: That's why. Happy birthday.
Speaker 1: Oh thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 3: I know you don't think it's a big deal, but
Speaker 3: you forget Oh, I would never remember your birthday if
Speaker 3: I don't have social media to remind me or you,
Speaker 3: I would never remember.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it was literally yesterday.
Speaker 3: Nice.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm not going to say my age.
Speaker 3: Oh do you want me to tell you? No, I will.
Speaker 3: It's it's a dividend of twelve.
Speaker 1: There you go.
Speaker 3: How about that?
Speaker 1: Yep, it is the square root of a funk. Everything hurts. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's why sight's going.
Speaker 3: How's unique? Cabs?
Speaker 1: They're fine, they're fine. Yeah, So that's that's all I got.
Speaker 1: That's all I got.
Speaker 3: No, you're fine, it's not nothing. Well, it's not nothing.
Speaker 3: And you're having a nice dinner tomorrow. You're doing a
Speaker 3: whole thing you have is your weekend, this is your
Speaker 3: birthday weekend.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my wife took me out to that was meaning
Speaker 1: my full steak rush, steak meal. Kids came, little gifts
Speaker 1: and stuff, very nice. And then yeah, we're doing a
Speaker 1: little something extra tomorrow, which would be Saturday. That's cool
Speaker 1: of this recording the twenty three four twenty three Yeah.
Speaker 3: I never remember my parents' birth birthdays either, So really,
Speaker 3: I don't feel bad.
Speaker 1: Don't feel so bad, don't feel bad.
Speaker 3: I forget everybody. Don't feel bad, alright. The only ones
Speaker 3: that commit to memory is when I if I'm in
Speaker 3: a relationship, I'll remember the partners. You know, birth, that's
Speaker 3: really it. That's it. I know my family's because I
Speaker 3: grew up with them. I wish I didn't remember. But
Speaker 3: in my families, I mean my brothers. Sorry, not my
Speaker 3: mom or anything.
Speaker 1: You don't remember your mom's birthday, I.
Speaker 3: Think it's in September. Oh, my dad's in something November.
Speaker 1: And I'm dude, I don't know. Google calendar. Google calendar.
Speaker 1: That's what I did.
Speaker 3: It's okay, they'll tell me.
Speaker 1: But yeah, other than that, it's no other news to
Speaker 1: really report on.
Speaker 3: It's okay. I think I said enough for both of
Speaker 3: us this week.
Speaker 1: There you go. Yeah, Yeah, should we take a break.
Speaker 3: I think we should. How did I take a break, Yes,
Speaker 3: let's do it.
Speaker 1: Okay, Chicago's podcast dot Com let's take a break. Listeners,
Speaker 1: welcome back to the show. Well, the lights are turned
Speaker 1: down low. The ceremonial candle is lit and the drinks
Speaker 1: are flowing.
Speaker 3: Tank.
Speaker 1: Let's start this.
Speaker 3: Show, all right, Nicholas Cage.
Speaker 1: They can't see what I'm doing behind.
Speaker 3: The He's gesticulating wildly emoting. That's what I said, the
Speaker 3: vibe into the groove.
Speaker 1: We didn't talk about what whiskey were drinking, No, we
Speaker 1: did not. We just kind of cut to break.
Speaker 3: That's what you did. You were having an aneurysm. We'll
Speaker 3: have to break.
Speaker 1: So we are drinking a nice ten year whistle pig Rye.
Speaker 1: It's a Honet proof hone it one hundred.
Speaker 3: I know what you meant, and it's good.
Speaker 1: I like, I'm not disliking this.
Speaker 3: What do you think I'll drink it? But I'm not
Speaker 3: a big y guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know you don't like Rye. I know, listen,
Speaker 1: I'm not listening. I typically I don't drink whistle pig
Speaker 1: often at all. Where I drink it, where I was
Speaker 1: turned onto it, and where I continue to drink it
Speaker 1: is at this nice hotel on the beach in New
Speaker 1: Smyrna Beach, Florida. Okay, that's my place to have whistle
Speaker 1: pig old fashions. And that's where I picked up this
Speaker 1: whistle pig thing must be the only place, the only
Speaker 1: place I drink it. But I grabbed this ten year bottle.
Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, let's let's try it. And I've had
Speaker 1: it sitting with it. A bottle is ten Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: a ten year old. Ten year old shut up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: So it's been sitting on my shelf for a couple
Speaker 1: of years, to be honest. We finally cracked it tonight,
Speaker 1: and I enjoy it. I like it as a spicy
Speaker 1: as other rise we've had that you don't don't like.
Speaker 1: For sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say there are worst rise I've had.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, for sure. But it's good. I'll do it'll
Speaker 3: do well. It'll warm me up. And it's been cold lately. Again.
Speaker 3: I hate it.
Speaker 1: It has even though I'm opening the pool.
Speaker 3: You know. I mean, I went from like like heat, heat,
Speaker 3: humid hot, aspecting heat, heat, heat, and then I came
Speaker 3: to Chicago and I was like, oh, it's nice out here.
Speaker 3: So I thought I came back in a good time.
Speaker 3: And then it's like, nope, nope, back down to forties
Speaker 3: and thirties. And we went down to almost twenties one night,
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Damn, it's bad, it's late. May can
Speaker 3: we come on.
Speaker 1: The other thing I wanted to mention quickly is just
Speaker 1: a thank you to all our new Instagram followers. We've
Speaker 1: been picking up Instagram followers like crazy lately, So thank
Speaker 1: you to everybody. We appreciate it. The ground and that's
Speaker 1: at Chicago Ghosts. Probably, I mean after fucking ten years. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you probably should.
Speaker 3: Are you saying we've had the Instagram for ten years?
Speaker 1: Eight years? Maybe?
Speaker 2: Wow?
Speaker 1: I don't know, it's been it's been a long time.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you probably should. Ready to do this. I got
Speaker 1: a crazy one tonight.
Speaker 3: I know nothing, just know. I was just gonna say
Speaker 3: a baby to it. I've read your mind.
Speaker 1: It's a long one. It's a long one, and.
Speaker 3: We've had longer we have.
Speaker 1: In tonight's episode, we're plunging into the dark underbelly of
Speaker 1: New York City in the nineteen sixties, seventies, and eighties,
Speaker 1: riotous decades that set the stage and helped fuel the
Speaker 1: horrific crimes will be discussing tonight. Against the backdrop of
Speaker 1: urban decay and desperation of ruthless predator emerged from the
Speaker 1: shadows created by screaming neon lights.
Speaker 3: Okay, I'll put you now. Wasn't that bad?
Speaker 1: Join us as we delve into the harrowing tale of
Speaker 1: Richard Francis Cottingham, also known as the Times Square Killer
Speaker 1: or the Times Square Ripper of Torso Killer.
Speaker 3: I know this one.
Speaker 1: Have you heard of him? Have you heard?
Speaker 3: I heard it? Yeah? I wouldn't say I know him details.
Speaker 1: He's a nasty fuck and he's kind of a lesser
Speaker 1: known serial killer. I don't know why, but it just
Speaker 1: this isn't a household name.
Speaker 3: Well that monik. You know, the Times Square Killer. I've
Speaker 3: heard before. You know, so I have. There's been documentaries
Speaker 3: and to the extent that I know very little about
Speaker 3: this until we do it on the show. Yeah, you know,
Speaker 3: I'm so pedestrian about it. I've heard of this guy and.
Speaker 1: Maybe this is so as we delve into the horrifying
Speaker 1: crimes of Richard Cottingham, who was an active serial killer
Speaker 1: between nineteen sixty seven and nineteen eighty. So a good
Speaker 1: stretch there. Yeah, it's crucial to understand that he was
Speaker 1: not an isolated monster. And I think this is the
Speaker 1: problem though, cotting him crimes stand on their own. They
Speaker 1: unfolded against a backdrop of nationwide horror. For anyone living
Speaker 1: through it, Turning on the evening news or opening the
Speaker 1: newspaper meant confronting a relentless stream of brutality. From the
Speaker 1: nineteen sixties through the nineteen eighties, the United States was
Speaker 1: gripped by a terrifying surge of serial violence. It was
Speaker 1: a terrifying era. The Manson family murders shattered the idealism
Speaker 1: of the Summer of Love in nineteen sixty nine. Simultaneously,
Speaker 1: the Zodiac Killer stock California, killing at random and taunting
Speaker 1: the media with cryptic letters well into the nineteen seventies.
Speaker 1: Over in New York, David Berkowitz, infamously known as the
Speaker 1: Sun of sam unleashed fear during the summers of nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy six. In nineteen seventy seven, on the West Coast,
Speaker 1: Angelo Brno Junior and Kenneth Bianchi, the Hillside Stranglers, abducted
Speaker 1: and murdered young women in Los Angeles between seventy seven
Speaker 1: and seventy eight. Ted Bundy left a multi states trail
Speaker 1: of death from Washington to Florida in nineteen seventy four
Speaker 1: to seventy eight, while Gary Ridgeway. The Green River killer
Speaker 1: was targeting vulnerable women in Washington State from nineteen eighty
Speaker 1: two well into the late nineteen nineties. So this is
Speaker 1: why I think, you know, Cottingham kind of gets lost
Speaker 1: in that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's well, you know a lot of people hail
Speaker 3: these these decades were the worst, man, I mean terrifying,
Speaker 3: terrif obviously before this too, but not much before because
Speaker 3: of all the turmoil, political upheavals. I mean, how close
Speaker 3: almost like coming face to face so close to global
Speaker 3: nuclear war, fucked up something in people in a certainly
Speaker 3: popular at one percent, and it's like just drove them crazy. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like that's how close we came. Fuck everyone has killed people.
Speaker 3: Like that's how it feels.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: It's something in the water that three no, nine sixty two, right,
Speaker 3: that's curbing miss crisis. Yeah, I'm just saying like that.
Speaker 3: I think it broke people, and people were like a
Speaker 3: good point when the world's mortality was taken into account
Speaker 3: that day or that week whatever.
Speaker 1: Oh ship, we could be wiped out that easy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that easy? Fuck everyone, What is it matter? Some
Speaker 3: people broke, Some people broke. What are you gonna do?
Speaker 3: You know this reminds me of something I've haanned a
Speaker 3: little bit but not too much. Is that the latest
Speaker 3: Not to get into it, The latest Final Destination movie
Speaker 3: came out a lot of a lot of brutal kills,
Speaker 3: a lot of brutal murdering, and there's no serial killer
Speaker 3: unless you count that as a zero killer. But I
Speaker 3: heard an interview with the directors right and in it
Speaker 3: they were explaining how they were talking about how they
Speaker 3: do focus groups. They showed the movie to a lot
Speaker 3: of people versions of it so they can tweak it
Speaker 3: to you know, maximizer profits. That's how it works. And
Speaker 3: apparently this latest version of the Final Destination movie, more
Speaker 3: women wanted more gore. Wow, Like is as unprecedented all
Speaker 3: the other movies was way less like usually guys or
Speaker 3: different groups of people, but younger women or women in
Speaker 3: general wanted all the brutality, all the gore. They wanted
Speaker 3: it added in they want They didn't want bloodless stuff.
Speaker 3: They wanted blood.
Speaker 1: I wonder what that means, and.
Speaker 3: I was thinking about it, and like it comes I
Speaker 3: think it comes from because it's been like twelve years
Speaker 3: since the last Final Destination and in that time period
Speaker 3: and before that, of course, I think a surge of
Speaker 3: serial killer podcast serial killer documentaries has exploded so much.
Speaker 3: I mean, we have more in one year than we've
Speaker 3: had I think all of history, it feels like in
Speaker 3: serial killer material. Yeah, like a Netflix alone, and that's
Speaker 3: Mention and HBO and all of them. They all have
Speaker 3: their own I think all major consumers of that are women,
Speaker 3: and it doesn't say it most of them are women.
Speaker 3: You think there's a lot of memes and jokes regarding
Speaker 3: how women are like doing something playful like knitting something
Speaker 3: or watching team not watching to be washing their dishes
Speaker 3: or driving a car, and they're listening to the most
Speaker 3: horrific thing and on the outside they look completely cheerful
Speaker 3: and happy, but in their ears they're listening to descriptions
Speaker 3: of horrible murders.
Speaker 1: What does that mean?
Speaker 3: And I feel like, yeah, so into the correlation there.
Speaker 1: I think you're right.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you're right.
Speaker 1: It's interesting. Yeah it is, ladies. I don't know, tell us,
Speaker 1: what do you think what is driving your passion your obsession.
Speaker 3: With or Instagram followers?
Speaker 1: It could be let us know contact at Chicago goospodcast
Speaker 1: dot com. Yeah, it's a little feed in there for them.
Speaker 3: You're welcome.
Speaker 1: Thank you. To understand how Richard Cottingham was able to
Speaker 1: operate undetected for so long again nineteen sixty seven to
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty, we got to examine the New York City
Speaker 1: of the sixties, seventies, and eighties, a city that's drastically
Speaker 1: different from the one we know today now. During these decades,
Speaker 1: New York was teetering on the edge, plagued by social unrest,
Speaker 1: economic collapse, and skyrocketing crime. It was a city unraveling,
Speaker 1: and that chaos created the perfect cover for predators like Cottingham.
Speaker 1: The nineteen sixties were marked by upheaval. The civil rights
Speaker 1: movement fueled way of protests, strikes, and violent confrontations. In
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty four, the Harlem Riots erupted, followed by the
Speaker 1: New York City Riot of nineteen sixty seven. Then in
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, the Stonewall Riots, an explosive response to
Speaker 1: police brutality.
Speaker 3: And the quiet riots come on feel the noise.
Speaker 1: The Stonewall Riots, an explosive response to police brutality, sparked
Speaker 1: the modern LGBTQ plus rights movement. These events painted a
Speaker 1: portrait of a city grappling with deep racial tension and
Speaker 1: social change. Estimates from race related unrest during the sixties
Speaker 1: include between fifty and three hundred deaths, more than one
Speaker 1: thousand injuries, and over four thousand arrests. Property damage exceeded
Speaker 1: forty five million dollars at that time, which is four
Speaker 1: hundred and forty million in today's money. Of volatility, couldn't
Speaker 1: get that out, you got it in. Fragmentation helped obscure
Speaker 1: Conningham's crimes as they begin wow. The nineteen seventies plunged
Speaker 1: New York into what many consider its darkest era. Crumbling infrastructure,
Speaker 1: graffiti covered trains and buildings, and constant emergency sirens defined
Speaker 1: daily life. Entire neighborhoods in the Bronx and Upper Manhattan
Speaker 1: were reduced to ruins by arson Times Square became a
Speaker 1: center for sex, work and drugs, while Central Park, beautiful today,
Speaker 1: gained a reputation for violent crime. Robberies, rape, and even murder.
Speaker 1: Crime surge to record highs in nineteen seventy The Hard
Speaker 1: Hat Riot saw construction workers attack student anti war protesters
Speaker 1: in broad daylight. The Attica prison uprising in seventy one
Speaker 1: further highlighted the systems collapse and yes. In nineteen seventy five,
Speaker 1: two separate bombings, one at Phronsie's Tavern that killed four
Speaker 1: and another at LaGuardia Airport that killed eleven, rocked the city.
Speaker 1: The later remains unsolved to this day. I never knew
Speaker 1: there was a bombing like that at LaGuardia Airport, But yeah,
Speaker 1: seventies were crazy. In seventy seven, the infamous Blackout left
Speaker 1: the city in chaos for twenty five hours. There were
Speaker 1: three deaths, over a thousand fires, four hundred and thirty
Speaker 1: injured police officers, and thousands arrested for looting. All this
Speaker 1: occurred as the Son of Sam's serial killings again from
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six to seventy seven, gripped the public with fear.
Speaker 1: Spike Lee's movie The Summer of Sam would later capture
Speaker 1: that raw panic and paranoia.
Speaker 3: And the heat of it too.
Speaker 1: That's what it was about it.
Speaker 3: That's why I loved about that movie, not nexsarily the
Speaker 3: serial killer stuff in it, but the stuff about New York. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's what he named. I think it was great in
Speaker 3: that movie. I also remind me remember that time in
Speaker 3: New York, also Chicago. I think around pandemic. Don't ask
Speaker 3: me the year, but recently in our history, there wasn't
Speaker 3: a big outage in New York. Do you remember this?
Speaker 1: I think I do.
Speaker 3: It lasted like a couple of days, maybe a few days.
Speaker 3: I don't remember exactly. I remember how people were panicking
Speaker 3: on the news and politicians, I don't know who, you know,
Speaker 3: people with mouthpieces. They were all panicking about riots, probably
Speaker 3: akin to this history you're talking about, right, and nobody
Speaker 3: nobody did anything.
Speaker 1: They stayed.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, because the thing is that that's the change. That's
Speaker 3: part of the I think a positive change of from
Speaker 3: that decade to this decade a little bit. Obviously, I'm
Speaker 3: not saying there's no violence anywhere, but I'm just saying
Speaker 3: that those extremes don't. I'm not saying we'll never come back,
Speaker 3: because they totally could come back any minute. They haven't
Speaker 3: been back, is my point.
Speaker 1: Thankfully.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so that everyone's so worried and nothing happened.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it does sound You're right. It does sound sounds
Speaker 1: like people trapped in subways.
Speaker 3: And trust me, if some I think violent crazy had
Speaker 3: occurred and during that time a couple of years back,
Speaker 3: we would remember, we would be like, oh, yeah, I
Speaker 3: remember that one hundred percent. Yeah, But it's easier to
Speaker 3: forget something that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: So didn't turn out that's bad. You forget.
Speaker 3: It's like saying like, oh, what's in the news today,
Speaker 3: Oh apparently this just then everything's fine. Nobody won't to
Speaker 3: say of that, I won't forget it.
Speaker 1: Well, if it bleeds, it leads. The nineteen eighties continued
Speaker 1: the city's downward spiral violent crime, sword setting grim records
Speaker 1: for murder, rape, burglaries, and auto theft. In the year
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty alone, New York reported one eight hundred and
Speaker 1: fourteen homicides. That same year, Mark David Chapman murdered John
Speaker 1: Lennon in front of the Dakota on Manhattan's Upper West Side.
Speaker 1: The New York Times would call nineteen eighty the worst
Speaker 1: year of crime in city history.
Speaker 3: Still you think, do you think still as of that time?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: I mean, I mean it's as you think, it's still
Speaker 3: the worst here, I mean to this day.
Speaker 1: Oh, I don't know. Things started improving then, I mean.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, yes, But also, like, have we is
Speaker 3: it this sensationalized? Also? I wonder if those statistics has
Speaker 3: been says, stanctionalized to make it seem that occurring years
Speaker 3: or later on years been more worse for crime, even
Speaker 3: if it wasn't. You know, you always think of that
Speaker 3: because I feel like it's hard to believe everything.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I hope not. I hope it was able to
Speaker 1: be left behind the nineteen eighty and pricked there. But unfortunately, no,
Speaker 1: not yet. It's going to get a little worse. But again,
Speaker 1: this was the landscape in which Richard Cottingham hunted, a fractured,
Speaker 1: chaotic city distracted by wave after wave of crisis in
Speaker 1: a world so overwhelmed by violence and disorder, Cuttingham's horrific
Speaker 1: acts could hide in plain sight. Residents were fleeing the
Speaker 1: city in droves as government mismanagement brought New York to
Speaker 1: the brink of bankrupts. Budget cuts led to a reduced
Speaker 1: police force. Just as the crack cocaine epidemic unleashed an
Speaker 1: unprecedented wave of addiction and violence. New Yorkers were warned
Speaker 1: against riding the subway, and many entire neighborhoods were deemed
Speaker 1: literal no go zones. Times Square became a magnet for vice,
Speaker 1: a place where the dazzling glow of neon lights bellied
Speaker 1: the darkness lurking beneath. What had once been a symbol
Speaker 1: of New York's vibrant entertainment district transformed into a grim
Speaker 1: theater of exploitation and desperation. Peep shows, adult cinemas, and
Speaker 1: sex shops dominated every block, while drug dealers operated openly
Speaker 1: catering to a steady stream of attics. The streets were
Speaker 1: overrun with lost souls, runaways, sex workers, the homeless, and
Speaker 1: the mentally ill, many of whom had nowhere else to go.
Speaker 1: It was a place where hope flickered like a dying bulb,
Speaker 1: and danger was constant. Violence was routine, with muggings, assaults,
Speaker 1: and even murders occurring just steps from flashing marquees. For
Speaker 1: many times, Square offered a last resort, a place to disappear,
Speaker 1: to numb the pain, or to hustle for survival. When
Speaker 1: I think about this these eras in New York's history,
Speaker 1: scenes from iconic movies instantly come to my mind. And see,
Speaker 1: if you agree, moments that kind of truly capture the
Speaker 1: essence of what it was like to live there during
Speaker 1: those times. Take the scene from and you know, I
Speaker 1: got to do it. The Exorcist, where father Damien Carrots
Speaker 1: Karras visits his mother's tenemente apartment on forty eighth Street. Outside,
Speaker 1: these impoverished children play in the shells of abandoned, burnt
Speaker 1: out cars, painting a haunting picture of urban decay. Do
Speaker 1: you remember that scene?
Speaker 3: I think so. Yeah, it's not like super clear. Yeah,
Speaker 3: what I think of is a HBO show The Deuce.
Speaker 1: The Deuce. Oh, I've seen one or two.
Speaker 3: I never got into it, but yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 1: I'm sure it is.
Speaker 3: It's all about New York during that era, and that's
Speaker 3: specifically that almost.
Speaker 1: Entirely slimy scummy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's well, yeah, one of them works that I
Speaker 3: die bar right off one of the streets.
Speaker 2: There.
Speaker 3: There's a lot of subway scenes and yeah, yeah, a
Speaker 3: lot of well it's not just about the murder or
Speaker 3: anything like that, but it has criminal elements at the
Speaker 3: mob in. It has a bunch of stuff in it.
Speaker 1: Well, how about this one. Martin Scorsese brought New York's
Speaker 1: forgotten corners to life in mean streets. I love bean streets,
Speaker 1: the dark alleys, dilapidated apartments, and CD bars weren't just backdrops,
Speaker 1: they were almost literal characters in their own right. These gritty,
Speaker 1: unpolished settings revealed parts of the city that would never
Speaker 1: make it into a tourist guidebook. For me, these films
Speaker 1: perfectly encapsulate the raw and unvarnished reality of New York
Speaker 1: during that era.
Speaker 3: Everything panic at Nedle Park.
Speaker 1: In which Cottingham operated. I haven't is that with al Pacino?
Speaker 1: I haven't, I haven't.
Speaker 3: It's filmed in the seventies. I think sure, it's about
Speaker 3: sure it was addicts living, probably in Central Park. Yeah,
Speaker 3: oh no, in Needle Park. I think that's might be
Speaker 3: another park. I don't remember. It's been a Watsons in it,
Speaker 3: but I know that's.
Speaker 1: I'll bet you it's Cral Park or some some section
Speaker 1: of Central Park they called Needle Park.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're probably right. I can't tell you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I'll tell you. There's probably no better example
Speaker 1: than another Scorsese film, Taxi Driver, from nineteen seventy six,
Speaker 1: starring Robert de Niro and taxi driver. De Niro's character
Speaker 1: Travis Bickle, describes New York as a sinful nightmare full
Speaker 1: of animals, terrible people bent on destroying innocence, and as
Speaker 1: an open sewer filled with filth and scum. These are
Speaker 1: quotes from the movie. As Travis Bickle glides through Times
Speaker 1: Square in his yellow cab, he passes a glut of pimps, prostitutes,
Speaker 1: go go bars, sex shops, peep shows, adult theaters, and
Speaker 1: porno shops, the very symbols of the city's decay and
Speaker 1: the symbols of Times Square itself. Bickles New York. Is
Speaker 1: in New York that birth Richard Cottingham, the Times Square Killer,
Speaker 1: someone who may be responsible for upwards of one hundred
Speaker 1: murders of teenage girls, runaways and prostitutes between the sixties
Speaker 1: and eighties in New York and New Jersey.
Speaker 3: On y Yeah, okays, Bickel is the pre orschack.
Speaker 1: Roorschack from taxi.
Speaker 3: Taxi, no chack from Watchman.
Speaker 1: Fuck.
Speaker 3: Did I say taxi? I don't know rosik in taxi
Speaker 3: the show.
Speaker 1: Horse shack, horseshack, Welcome back Cotter, I meant rorshak well,
Speaker 1: I said horseshack, and that's welcome back Cotter through Richard Cottingham.
Speaker 1: Though Richard Cottingham may not be a household name, his
Speaker 1: heinous crimes left a lasting impact on New York City.
Speaker 1: This relatively unknown serial killer etched a permanent mark on
Speaker 1: the city's history and instilling fear, reshaping perceptions of safety,
Speaker 1: and prompting a critical re evaluation of support systems for
Speaker 1: vulnerable populations. His brutal acts continue to resonate within New
Speaker 1: York's collective memory, a grim reminder of the dark chapters
Speaker 1: in its past. Known for his ability to blend seamlessly
Speaker 1: into the chaotic streets, Cottingham's methods were as chilling as
Speaker 1: they were calculated. He focused on the Times Square area
Speaker 1: of New York, which again was known for its illicit
Speaker 1: activities and the high chance of encountering female runaways and
Speaker 1: prostitutes and the homeless. Cottingham would lure his victims into
Speaker 1: secluded areas or into shitty hotel rooms, and that's when
Speaker 1: his vicious work would commence. And since he deliberately preyed
Speaker 1: on the vulnerable and the marginalized, an additional layer of
Speaker 1: difficulty was added to any kind of police investigation. As
Speaker 1: we talked about in our Long Island serial Killer episodes,
Speaker 1: it could take a while for someone to realize that
Speaker 1: these types of women are actually missing, to remember the
Speaker 1: terms the missing, missing or less dead or NHI no
Speaker 1: humans involved. Unfortunately, prostitutes and runways are typically not a
Speaker 1: high priority for police when they are discovered missing. They
Speaker 1: gambled and lost. And it's not known how many women
Speaker 1: Cottingham actually killed, As I said, some estimate. Some estimates
Speaker 1: places body at a BodyCount at one hundred or more. However,
Speaker 1: we can confirm that Cottingham's victim count is at least
Speaker 1: sixteen women, not including intended victims that miraculously survived, although
Speaker 1: not unscathed. It's also speculated that his killing grounds could
Speaker 1: span many more states besides New York and New Jersey.
Speaker 1: So I want to get into Cottingham's early years a bit,
Speaker 1: even though after all this research there's nothing really remarkable. There,
Speaker 1: no aha.
Speaker 3: Moment, Well, did he go to California?
Speaker 1: Nokay, No no indication, but there's no aha moments in
Speaker 1: his growth in his childhood to explain why this guy
Speaker 1: turned out the way he did, okay. Cottingham was born
Speaker 1: on November twenty fifth, nineteen forty six, in the Bronx,
Speaker 1: New York, the first of four children, and soon after
Speaker 1: his birth, the family relocated to New Jersey, where Cottingham
Speaker 1: spent most of his childhood. Overall, he had a stable
Speaker 1: and comfortable upbringing in a fairly well off Catholic household.
Speaker 1: Now Cottingham faced some challenges with making friends during his
Speaker 1: grammar school and high school years, but that's not abnormal.
Speaker 1: He was considered handsome by some, but he had poor eyesight,
Speaker 1: which made sports difficult for him to play. But nothing
Speaker 1: tragic with that either, But he apparently found solace and
Speaker 1: purpose in joining his high school's track team. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I would never do it. I think that's psychotic myself.
Speaker 3: But yeah, you're not much. You're a runner.
Speaker 1: No police are behind me. There's no known sexual abuse,
Speaker 1: killing of animals, bedwetting, starting fires, nothing like that in
Speaker 1: his past. I read one article that said Cottingham discovered
Speaker 1: and enjoyed bondage porn as a teen. But does that
Speaker 1: tell us he's going to become one of the worst
Speaker 1: serial killers one day? No, of course not. After graduating
Speaker 1: high school in sixty four, Cottingham wasted no time and
Speaker 1: immediately started working as a computer operator at Metropolitan Life
Speaker 1: Insurance Company, where his father was vice president, and he
Speaker 1: also took computer courses during this time to further enhance
Speaker 1: his knowledge in the field, which would serve him well
Speaker 1: when he eventually worked for Blue Cross Blue Shield in
Speaker 1: New York, a career he kept all the way up
Speaker 1: until he was arrested in nineteen eighty. Now this, you
Speaker 1: can't make this shit up, I'm telling you. In this
Speaker 1: crazy twist of fate, while Cottingham worked at Blue Cross
Speaker 1: Blue Shield, he actually worked in an office with another
Speaker 1: brutal serial killer we covered on this podcast, Rodney Alcala
Speaker 1: dating game killer. Yeah, the notorious child rapist and serial
Speaker 1: killer we covered in episode one nine. Of course you
Speaker 1: do last. Yeah, Cottingham worked with this asshole. Now there's
Speaker 1: no indication that either of these two jag offs knew
Speaker 1: of each other's proclivities or killed together or anything like that.
Speaker 1: But still, what are the chances, Yeah, what are the chances.
Speaker 3: They walked by in the hallway something with this guy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't trust this fucking day this guy's I
Speaker 1: don't trust this fucking guy.
Speaker 3: Like, step away from that one. That one's mine. I
Speaker 3: call her tips.
Speaker 1: It's weird. It's just do you call that serendipity. I
Speaker 1: don't think you call that certen dipity.
Speaker 3: No, it's just coincidence. I guess you think they passed
Speaker 3: next to each other in the same bathroom, like Saul,
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, I can see a skid. How
Speaker 3: about that?
Speaker 1: I don't know. That would be some funny you could
Speaker 1: you come up with some funny shit.
Speaker 3: For maybe yeah, maybe Anyway.
Speaker 1: In the May of nineteen seventy, Cottingham married his wife.
Speaker 1: He was married and they had three kids, Blair in
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three, Scott in seventy five, and Jenna in
Speaker 1: seventy six. And the fact that this guy was married,
Speaker 1: it's not that strange. A lot of serial killers actually
Speaker 1: had wives and kids and they held down normal jobs,
Speaker 1: just like Cottingham. Think John Wayne Gacy the Killer Clown,
Speaker 1: or Robert Hanson the butcher Baker, both of whom we
Speaker 1: covered on this show, or Dennis Rader BTK Now. It's
Speaker 1: mentioned in numerous articles that after the birth of their
Speaker 1: third child, Jenny, Cottingham completely stopped having sex with his wife,
Speaker 1: He neglected her, and he basically stopped providing physically, mentally, emotionally,
Speaker 1: and financially as a husband should.
Speaker 2: So.
Speaker 1: In nineteen seventy nine, Janet filed for divorce, which was
Speaker 1: finalized in eighty one after Cottingham was caught for being
Speaker 1: the Time Square killer. But again, aside from spouseal neglect
Speaker 1: and some bondage porn, there were no overt signs of
Speaker 1: this absolute monster Cottingham was or would become. And this
Speaker 1: is exactly what made Cottingham so terrible, his chameleon likability
Speaker 1: to mask and blend in.
Speaker 3: Was he charismatic?
Speaker 1: Oh, we don't know that, really heard him described as charismatic?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: No, no, he was utterly normal. And there's a good
Speaker 1: New York Times quote in here. Later I don't remember,
Speaker 1: I'll get to it. But the way they describe him,
Speaker 1: they're like, he just couldn't he can't be this because
Speaker 1: he's just so normal, Like.
Speaker 3: He's like designed to be forgotten the heat, Yeah kind
Speaker 3: of yeah, yeah, Okay.
Speaker 1: Now, According to Peter Vronsky, an author immersed in chronicling
Speaker 1: Cottingham's story and who conducted multiple interviews with him, Cottingham
Speaker 1: was like a lichenthrope, a werewolf, a shape shifter, a
Speaker 1: murderous creature driven by an insatiable bloodlust. During the day,
Speaker 1: Cottingham portrayed the image of a devoted family man living
Speaker 1: in Lodi, New Jersey. Pause side note. You know who
Speaker 1: else was from Lodi, New Jersey. Yeah, Glenn ENZELONEI Glen Danzig,
Speaker 1: Glenn Danzig, fucking Glenn Danzig, Misfits.
Speaker 3: Oh Danzig people, I know the band names Glennzelone.
Speaker 1: That's his real name, shore Glen Danzig. Lodi is where
Speaker 1: one of my all time favorite bands was formed, The Misfits.
Speaker 1: But anyway, Richard Cottingham from Lodi, New Jersey. During the day,
Speaker 1: he was seen as a loving husband and dedicated father
Speaker 1: to three children. Neighbors often spotted him throwing, you know,
Speaker 1: strolling through the streets with his kids through the neighborhood,
Speaker 1: projecting this aura of politeness. As I mentioned, he worked
Speaker 1: at Blue Cross Blue Shield in Manhattan as a mainframe
Speaker 1: computer operator, which was a highly skilled, high paying job
Speaker 1: at the time. I do so outwardly, he's just this
Speaker 1: totally normal looking, polite, unassuming, successful family man, a suit
Speaker 1: and tie guy. But as night descended, Cottingham underwent a
Speaker 1: sinister transformation and the werewolf emerged. Under the cover of night, Cottingham,
Speaker 1: the serial sexual murder or murderer, hunted his prey, and
Speaker 1: once caught, he would totally dominate and control the prey
Speaker 1: while inflicting as much pain and suffering as possible. The
Speaker 1: more his victims suffered, the more aroused Cottingham would get.
Speaker 1: And sexual pleasure and violence such a dangerous combination. Yes, Now,
Speaker 1: what's really crazy is that Contingham's crimes went undetected for
Speaker 1: so long, meaning police just could not piece together who
Speaker 1: exactly was responsible for the bodies being left all over
Speaker 1: New York and New Jersey. You see, back in those days,
Speaker 1: information sharing between police departments, especially between police departments in
Speaker 1: different states, was rudimentary at best and not existing at worst,
Speaker 1: and there were no centralized databases to pull information from.
Speaker 1: Friends of technology and techniques were limited in their capabilities,
Speaker 1: and DNA analysis was not available yet. This posed a
Speaker 1: significant challenge in collecting and analyzing potential evidence left at
Speaker 1: crime scenes, hindering the identification of Cottingham as the Times
Speaker 1: Square killer. And like it or not, as much as
Speaker 1: police departments like to say they all play well together,
Speaker 1: in reality, they're all pretty tribal. This is our case,
Speaker 1: We're going to solve it that kind of thing.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I can imagine it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And Cottingham knew this.
Speaker 3: He's Bible high schools or something. It's excus Yeah.
Speaker 1: And he knew this, and he was smart, and he
Speaker 1: was completely unassuming. In fact, the New York Daily News
Speaker 1: would describe Cottingham as quote too ridiculously normal to be
Speaker 1: a serial killer. End quote. That was the quote I
Speaker 1: was referring to. Yeah, too ridiculously normal. It's fantastically what
Speaker 1: a quote. It's such a great quote. Yet that's exactly
Speaker 1: what he was. He's a serial killer. Another thing that
Speaker 1: made Cottingham difficult to detect is the fact that he
Speaker 1: hunted where he was most comfortable, New Jersey, where he
Speaker 1: grew up, and lived in New York where he worked. God,
Speaker 1: who does that sound like? That we covered recently, and
Speaker 1: let's not forget, as I mentioned earlier, due to politics
Speaker 1: and financial constraints at the time, the NYPD was already
Speaker 1: severely strained. So now that we have some insight into
Speaker 1: who this asshole was, I'd like to go through each
Speaker 1: of Cottingham's known victims, and again keep in mind, when
Speaker 1: it comes to the victim count, Cottingham's exact count is unknown.
Speaker 1: He claims to have killed one hundred and more, and
Speaker 1: some investigators believe him. Now, I should have maybe mentioned
Speaker 1: this earlier, but be sure to check the show notes,
Speaker 1: as I left tons of photos there so you could
Speaker 1: put faces to the names we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: the victims, Cottingham some other stuff in there, like to
Speaker 1: try to keep it interactive. Yeah yeah, yeah, So I
Speaker 1: left photos of Cottingham if you really want to see
Speaker 1: what this fuck looks like. But it's believed that Cottingham
Speaker 1: killed his first victim, Nancy Chiava Vogel, a twenty nine
Speaker 1: year old married mother of two, on October twenty seventh,
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty seven. On that day, Nancy told her family
Speaker 1: and friends that she was going to go play bingo
Speaker 1: at a local church in Little Ferry, New Jersey, just
Speaker 1: across the river from Manhattan and Times Square. Now, as
Speaker 1: you might guess, Vogel never returned home. It was later
Speaker 1: revealed that Nancy somehow crossed paths with Richard Cottingham, who
Speaker 1: was a resident of Little Ferry at the time. On
Speaker 1: October thirtieth, nineteen sixty seven, the day before Halloween, two
Speaker 1: young Scho school girls saw what they thought was a
Speaker 1: mannequin inside a park car. Turns out it was Nancy Vogel.
Speaker 1: Found in Ridgeville Park, New Jersey in the back seat
Speaker 1: of her own vehicle. She was nude, with her hands
Speaker 1: and feet bound. Nancy had been severely beaten, and it
Speaker 1: was determined that she died by strangulation and blunt force trauma.
Speaker 3: Was the rest of her injuries like predeath, the prosthumously.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't that, I don't know, I don't
Speaker 3: know post Yeah.
Speaker 1: Police theorized Nancy knew her killer due to the fact
Speaker 1: that there were signs she was having sex in the vehicle,
Speaker 1: but there were no signs of rape, and because her
Speaker 1: clothes were found folded neatly under her on the seat
Speaker 1: of her car. Vogel's disappearance and subsequent murder remained unsolved
Speaker 1: for forty three years until Cottingham actually confessed to it
Speaker 1: in twenty.
Speaker 3: Ten, even though by that time he was already saying,
Speaker 3: oh I did one hundred.
Speaker 1: Yeah, huh. He finally confessed twenty ten. That's a long
Speaker 1: time not to know, truly, No, what happened to her?
Speaker 1: Your loved one. That's terrible. Yeah, And that's a theme
Speaker 1: throughout this story. Is there this massive gap of time
Speaker 1: where families don't know what the fuck is going on?
Speaker 1: You know. Next, we have Diane Cusick. In February of
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight, Cottingham murdered twenty three year old Diane Cusick,
Speaker 1: a dance teacher and mother. On the night of February fifteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty eight, Cusick called her parents to tell them
Speaker 1: she was headed to the mall to purchase some new
Speaker 1: dance shoes, but tragically, as you could guess, she never
Speaker 1: returned home. On February sixteenth, nineteen sixty eight, so two
Speaker 1: days after Valentine's Day, Cusick was discovered beaten, raped and
Speaker 1: bound with duct tape in the backseat of her own car. Again.
Speaker 1: This theme there right, which was located in the parking
Speaker 1: lot of Valley Streams Green Acres Mall in Valley Stream,
Speaker 1: New York. Authorities believe that after leaving her job at
Speaker 1: a children's dance school, and while making that stop at
Speaker 1: the mall to buy new dance shoes, Cottingham, impersonating a
Speaker 1: security guard or a cop, followed Diane to her car.
Speaker 1: He accused Cusick of theft, and then forcefully overpowered the
Speaker 1: petite woman. This is the theory. The medical examiner's finding
Speaker 1: indicated that Diane suffered severe facial and head injuries and
Speaker 1: died from suffocation. Additionally, defensive wounds were observed on her hands.
Speaker 1: So she fought this piece of shit. Heartbreakingly, it was
Speaker 1: her own parents that found her car and her body
Speaker 1: in that mall parking lot. Cottingham didn't confess to this
Speaker 1: murder until twenty twenty two, just a few years ago. Wow,
Speaker 1: that family had to wait nearly fifty five years for closure.
Speaker 3: Could you imagine't no offense but probably gone by that?
Speaker 1: Yeah that I would guess Yeah.
Speaker 3: By love logistics logic. Wow, Wow.
Speaker 1: On this one's young. On July seventeenth, nineteen sixty eight,
Speaker 1: Cottingham ambushed and killed Jackie harp Aged, just thirteen, while
Speaker 1: she was walking home from her school's drum and bugle
Speaker 1: practice in Midland Park, New Jersey. When Cottingham couldn't persuade
Speaker 1: Jackie to get in the car with them, smart girl,
Speaker 1: he drove the car in front of Jackie like effectively
Speaker 1: cutting her off like you see in the movies. You know.
Speaker 3: Yes.
Speaker 1: Cottingham then got out of a car, dragged Jackie into
Speaker 1: some nearby bushes, and he killed her. She was badly
Speaker 1: beaten and had been strangled with the leather sling of
Speaker 1: the band flag she was carrying on her way home.
Speaker 3: So like I improvised. Yeah, this one more I mean
Speaker 3: seemingly more improvised than the last two.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's using whatever she whatever bushes right opportunity.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Jackie Harp was Cottingham's youngest victim, and her murder went
Speaker 1: unsolved until twenty seventeen, when Cottingham confessed. From sixty eight
Speaker 1: to twenty seventeen unsolved. Next, we have Irene Blasse. She
Speaker 1: was just eighteen years old when Cottingham had abducted her
Speaker 1: from the Hackensack bus terminal in Hackensack, New Jersey, on
Speaker 1: April seventh, nineteen sixty nine. The next day, Irene's body
Speaker 1: was found laying face down in four feet of water
Speaker 1: in the Saddle River in Saddlebrook, New Jersey. She was
Speaker 1: partially disrobed, she was beaten and bruised. She was stabbed
Speaker 1: once through the back into the right lung, and she
Speaker 1: was strangled with the chain of a crucifix she was wearing.
Speaker 1: Cottingham admitted to murdering Irene in twenty fourteen. On July fourteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen sixty nine, Cottingham forcefully abducted a fifteen year old
Speaker 1: girl named Denise Flaska while she was on her way
Speaker 1: to a friend's house in Emerson, New Jersey. Following morning,
Speaker 1: Denise's lifeless body was discovered in Saddlebrook, New Jersey like
Speaker 1: a piece of trash. Cottingham callously dumped Denise's body from
Speaker 1: his car alongside a road near a cemetery. Denise had
Speaker 1: also been strangled with the very chain of the crucifix
Speaker 1: she wore. Cottingham admitted to murdering Denise in twenty fourteen.
Speaker 3: Okay, there's like the fifth time now where I'm losting
Speaker 3: to your patterns. Why is he admitting to these murders
Speaker 3: at different times since and his incarceration? What's with all
Speaker 3: these weird times?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Part of this story, which I didn't really write
Speaker 1: in here, is there was a cop who kind of
Speaker 1: befriended him, okay later in life.
Speaker 3: Like fake like to get information, yeah kind of thing.
Speaker 3: Maybe there was a friendship there, right, but you have
Speaker 3: to love what you hate, right good? Maybe?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he was convincing Cottingham to come clean on things.
Speaker 3: I just took him a while, Yeah, so I just
Speaker 3: want took Wow, it must have been like pulling teeth.
Speaker 3: These are decades apart, some of these huge time gaps,
Speaker 3: huge time gaps. Because you give me one different Jay
Speaker 3: called you my brother.
Speaker 1: For get my birthday and I forget my name.
Speaker 3: I blame Risky, thank you. Now that's insane, though, that's
Speaker 3: a that's dedication. That's some ship.
Speaker 1: Now he worked.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's that's kudos to that, to that detective, I assume.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: Then second pattern is that I'm noticing that he picks
Speaker 3: younger people in New Jersey.
Speaker 1: So far, so far, so far right.
Speaker 3: I don't know all the folkn right, but it seems
Speaker 3: like so far theorizing a pattern, I guess. And that
Speaker 3: could be because see, we grew up there, right he did.
Speaker 3: I wonder if the familiarity of going to school in
Speaker 3: New Jersey compared to seeing girls his own age and
Speaker 3: getting older and sticking to that age group as he's growing,
Speaker 3: has to do with like he thinks of New York
Speaker 3: as you know, old women that he can take advantage
Speaker 3: of and at home they're in New York and at
Speaker 3: home not so. I wonder if that's a thing based
Speaker 3: on these couples sing yeah and anyway, that's it.
Speaker 1: No good, It's got you thinking it's got the gears turner,
Speaker 1: I like that exactly. Unfortunately. List continue continues. Lorraine McGraw
Speaker 1: was a twenty six year old mother of two whose
Speaker 1: nude body was discovered by some hikers in the old
Speaker 1: Camp Bluefields water Tower in Nayat, New York in March
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy. She'd been strangled to death. Not a lot
Speaker 1: I can find on this one, but Cottingham confessed to
Speaker 1: killing McGraw in twenty twenty two. Yeah, he remembers them
Speaker 1: all twenty two. Do a lot of these guys do
Speaker 1: they think about it all the time?
Speaker 3: Yeah? They must, You're right, I mean that's heady to
Speaker 3: get off.
Speaker 1: Probably this one's fucked up too. Mary Beth Hine that
Speaker 1: they all fucked up. This one particularly gets me because
Speaker 1: she was sick. Mary Beth Hines a twenty one year
Speaker 1: old epileptic that suffered from Grand Mall seizures. She vanished
Speaker 1: on May fifth, nineteen seventy two, as she was traveling
Speaker 1: to a nearby dance being held specifically for epileptics. Since
Speaker 1: Mary Beth's epilepsy was rather bad with the Grand Mall seizears,
Speaker 1: she wasn't able to drive which is why she took
Speaker 1: a bus to the dance, but she never arrived. She
Speaker 1: never came back home either. It's not exactly clear how,
Speaker 1: but Cottingham somehow intercepted Mary Beth while she was traveling
Speaker 1: to that dance, and sadly, her body was discovered five
Speaker 1: days later. On May tenth, nineteen seventy two, near a
Speaker 1: creek in Rockville Center, New York, which is on Long Island.
Speaker 1: Cottingham beat and strangled Marybeth to death before dumping her
Speaker 1: body from a Long Island bridge. Cottingham confessed to Mary
Speaker 1: Beth's murder in twenty twenty two. Laverne Moy was a
Speaker 1: twenty three year old mother of two when Cottingham strangled
Speaker 1: her a death and then dumped her body off a
Speaker 1: bridge on Long Island. She was found in Long Island
Speaker 1: Creek on July twentieth, nineteen seventy two, very near where
Speaker 1: Marybeth Hines's body was discovered a few months earlier. In fact,
Speaker 1: it's believed that Cottingham dumped LaVerne's body from the same
Speaker 1: Long Island bridge from which he dumped Marybeth Hines's body
Speaker 1: two months earlier, and just like Mary Beth Cottingham didn't
Speaker 1: cop to this murder until twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: Big year for him, I guess, guess.
Speaker 1: So the Sheila Hyman, thirty three years old. She was
Speaker 1: found bludgeon and stamped, stabbed to death in her home
Speaker 1: in north Woodmere, New York, on July twentieth, nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 1: That morning, when her husband returned from a trip to
Speaker 1: the department store, he discovered his wife dead in the
Speaker 1: couple's master bathroom. None of the rooms outside of the
Speaker 1: bathroom showed evidence of a struggle. The thirty three year
Speaker 1: old mother of three suffered multiple lacerations to her skull,
Speaker 1: a fractured jaw, and a lacerated juggerer vain. None of
Speaker 1: Sheila's neighbors reported anything strange around the time of her death,
Speaker 1: and the autopsy ruled out rape. Cottingham confessed to Shila
Speaker 1: Hyman's murder in twenty twenty two. Now, sadly, for nearly
Speaker 1: fifty years, Sheila's husband was considered the prime suspect in
Speaker 1: his wife's murder. That makes sense, Yeah, and this poor
Speaker 1: guy was haunted and hounded over this for decades. And
Speaker 1: that's how this poor guy went to his grave.
Speaker 3: He died before Yep, his.
Speaker 1: Name only being cleared after his death. Fucking tragic man.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's something about that. After you die that sucks.
Speaker 3: I mean, yeah, you found out what the world knows now,
Speaker 3: but also you died thinking the other way, right, Yeah,
Speaker 3: that sucks.
Speaker 1: It's that's just it's terrible. That one means. It makes
Speaker 1: me have a drink.
Speaker 3: Wait, it is a drink for the entry.
Speaker 1: On December twenty seventh, nineteen seventy three, the body of
Speaker 1: eighteen year old Maria Amrita Rosatto Neevis was discovered in
Speaker 1: New Jersey in a weedy area of Jones Beach on
Speaker 1: the north side of Ocean Parkway in a busloading area
Speaker 1: right there. I was like, wait, wait what Ocean Parkway.
Speaker 1: It's New Jersey, not Long Island, New York. Like Rex Huerman.
Speaker 1: Maria was strangled to death, and park maintenance workers found
Speaker 1: her body covered in plastic bags and wrapped in a
Speaker 1: gray blanket. Nevis was originally from Puerto Rico and lived
Speaker 1: in Manhattan prior to her murder, which went unsolved until
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, when Cottingham finally confessed and just for
Speaker 1: you know, so you know in the show notes, Maria
Speaker 1: is the only victim I could not find a picture
Speaker 1: of just couldn't find it. So just so you know,
Speaker 1: he's really ramping it up on this one. On August ninth,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, in Ridgefield, New Jersey, teenagers Lorraine Kelly
Speaker 1: sixteen and mary Anne Prior seventeen were headed to the
Speaker 1: Jersey shore for the day, but needed to buy bathing
Speaker 1: suits first. The girls were too young to have a
Speaker 1: driver's license, so they did what tons of people were
Speaker 1: doing in the mid nineteen seventies. They decided to hitchhike.
Speaker 1: As you can imagine, fatal mistake.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: Cottingham happened to drive by and he picked up Lorrain
Speaker 1: and Marianne, and, under the threat of doing them serious
Speaker 1: harm if they didn't comply, he got them into a
Speaker 1: hotel room. Cottingham tied both girls to a bed, repeatedly
Speaker 1: raped them, tortured them, and beat them to a bloody pulp.
Speaker 1: It's believed he did this for a few days actually,
Speaker 1: and he eventually drowned both girls in the hotel bathtub.
Speaker 1: Well five days after the girls went missing on August fourteenth,
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy four, their bodies were discovered at a construction
Speaker 1: site in Montvale, New Jersey. Cottingham finally admitted to killing
Speaker 1: the two teens in twenty twenty one, and it seems
Speaker 1: these are the only killings that Cottingham showed any signs
Speaker 1: of regret for committing. He does not like talking about
Speaker 1: this crime. For some reason, this one gets to him.
Speaker 3: Wait, what do you mean for some reason? This is
Speaker 3: it's horrifying and more horrifying than the rest to the rest.
Speaker 1: But like he's a serial killer. Days they love that shit.
Speaker 3: It's days underage.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's terrible.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying it. It seems like to be a
Speaker 3: little worse.
Speaker 1: So you're saying he even has a little conscience there.
Speaker 3: He must, he must like this is by the one
Speaker 3: that gives them. If there's any crime so far out
Speaker 3: of all of his that uh maybe give them nightmares,
Speaker 3: might be this one.
Speaker 1: It's possible. But wait, there's more.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, I know, I know.
Speaker 1: Mariann Carr Maryann Carr. She was a married, twenty six
Speaker 1: year old X ray technician from Little Fairy, New Jersey.
Speaker 1: She was abducted on December fifteenth, nineteen seventy seven, from
Speaker 1: the Ledgewood Terrorist apartments where Cottingham had once lived, again familiarity.
Speaker 3: Right that day.
Speaker 1: Marie Anne was supposed to meet up with her mother
Speaker 1: in law, but she never showed up. Witnesses claimed to
Speaker 1: have seen Marianne having a confrontation with the man in
Speaker 1: the parking lot of her apartment complex, presumably her killer Cottingham,
Speaker 1: and that's where the abduction took place. Mary Anne was
Speaker 1: later frowned, brutally beaten, and strangled in the parking lot
Speaker 1: of a quality in motel in Haspruk Heights, New Jersey.
Speaker 1: She had severe ligature marks on her wrists and ankles,
Speaker 1: indicating that she was likely handcuffed at some point. There
Speaker 1: were ligature marks around her neck and traces of adhesive
Speaker 1: tape around her mouth. She had also been sexually abused,
Speaker 1: cut and bitten all over her chest and legs, and
Speaker 1: she was beaten with a blunt object. Cottingham was convicted
Speaker 1: of murdering Marianne Carr in nineteen eighty two getting into
Speaker 1: gold Star Territory. Now victim's name is Dede Goudzari. On
Speaker 1: December second, nineteen seventy nine, d D Gadzari, a twenty
Speaker 1: two year old Kuwaiti immigrant who worked as a prostitute,
Speaker 1: along with another unidentified woman, were brutally murdered by Richard
Speaker 1: Cottingham in a hotel room at the travel In Motor
Speaker 1: Hotel in Times Square. Employees noticed smoke pouring out from
Speaker 1: under the door of room four seventeen. The fire department
Speaker 1: was called and when they entered the room. When they
Speaker 1: bust into the room, they found two bodies burning, one
Speaker 1: on each twin bed. When one of the firemen attempted
Speaker 1: mouth to mouth resuscitation on one of the bodies, he
Speaker 1: discovered that the body was headless. Cottenham beheaded Dede Gazari,
Speaker 1: cut off her hands and set her body on fire.
Speaker 1: He did the exact same thing to the other unidentified woman.
Speaker 1: Cottenham loaded both women's heads and hands into a duffel
Speaker 1: bag and he nonchalantly walked out of the hotel room.
Speaker 1: And he walked through Times Square with his duffel bag.
Speaker 1: And get this, he was stopped by police for his
Speaker 1: own safety. Remember Times Square is fucked up at this time.
Speaker 1: So because Times Square at this time in history was
Speaker 1: notoriously dangerous, right we talked about this, especially at night.
Speaker 1: So cop stopped him for his own safety, saying you
Speaker 1: get out of here, white guy in fucking time square
Speaker 1: duffel bag right now. Cottingham was convicted of both Deiti's
Speaker 1: murder and the Jane does Doeze murder the other woman
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four. Now, it is worth noting that D. D.
Speaker 1: Gazari's case gained attention in recent years due to her daughter,
Speaker 1: Jennifer Weiss, forming an unlikely alliance, a friendship with Richard Cottingham,
Speaker 1: in order to complete what Jennifer calls her quest. Now.
Speaker 1: Growing up, Jennifer didn't know who her biological mother was,
Speaker 1: but she discovered Dede's name in old newspaper clippings, which
Speaker 1: led her to learn about who her mother was and
Speaker 1: her mother's horrific fate, and then to Cottingham. Now, you'd
Speaker 1: be right to ask how someone could befriend a man
Speaker 1: that beheaded their mother. I asked the same question. But
Speaker 1: as wife Weiss puts it, quote, everybody deserves to be forgiven.
Speaker 1: The magnitude of what he did is unfathomable. But I
Speaker 1: became friends with Richard for my mother's sake and for
Speaker 1: my quest end quote. You see, Jennifer's extraordinary good will
Speaker 1: is motivated by a tragic wish to find her mother's
Speaker 1: skull in that dingy motel room back in nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 1: Cottingham packed Dedee's head and hands into that duffel bag
Speaker 1: and left the hotel and the macab mementos were never
Speaker 1: seen again, and to date, despite their odd friendship, Cottingham
Speaker 1: has never revealed to Weiss what he did with their
Speaker 1: mother's head. So fucking crazy. Now you can check the
Speaker 1: show notes. You'll see a picture of Jennifer Weiss, Dede
Speaker 1: Gazzari's daughter messing around with Cottingham. Go check this picture out.
Speaker 1: The picture looks like an attractive woman strangling Santa Claus
Speaker 1: and clowning for the camera. That's exactly what it looks like,
Speaker 1: and it would be a disgusting picture if you get
Speaker 1: to understand the context what Jennifer's trying to do and
Speaker 1: why she's doing it. Befriend to try to find her
Speaker 1: mother's skull. Hopefully Cottingham will show some humanity and give
Speaker 1: Jennifer the location of her mother's skull before he departs
Speaker 1: our sweet world. Because this guy looks like absolute shit
Speaker 1: these days.
Speaker 3: Not doing well well, I imagine that, but also like,
Speaker 3: since it's exitus of confessions in twenty twenty two, and
Speaker 3: if he hasn't come out with it, it's possible he's
Speaker 3: I don't want to think naggine. That's not the right term.
Speaker 3: He's probably not. He's probably not telling her because he
Speaker 3: doesn't remember.
Speaker 1: I could be too.
Speaker 3: Here was like double shitty about it, like I don't remember,
Speaker 3: you waste all your time, or I love I love
Speaker 3: the attention to woman, right, And you know I was
Speaker 3: thinking that when you mentioned about this cop that prefriended
Speaker 3: him too, because you know, I'm not gonna say that.
Speaker 3: I'm not going to say. The obvious sentence that most
Speaker 3: people think of when people think of a serial killer
Speaker 3: or any kind of killer is that they're heartless and
Speaker 3: they deserve nothing and they don't feel anything. That's not true.
Speaker 3: That's not true. There are people in there, not all
Speaker 3: of them, that all of them are social paths. Not
Speaker 3: all of them feel nothing, right, most of them feel something.
Speaker 3: And based on the way this guy doesn't want to
Speaker 3: talk about that one double murder, I would say he
Speaker 3: does feel something. He's not on the spectrum of complete psychopaths,
Speaker 3: so maybe he's so. I wouldn't say he's just doing
Speaker 3: it to have attention. But he also every human needs attention,
Speaker 3: you know, So I don't I'm not saying I I'm
Speaker 3: not saying we shouldn't blame him, just saying I understand
Speaker 3: if that's what he's doing, and it's weird, but I
Speaker 3: think he forgot I feel like he would have said
Speaker 3: it by now because he's confessed to all this stuff.
Speaker 3: You know, we'll see.
Speaker 1: I mean again, he is not doing well. Right, he's
Speaker 1: not doing well, so may.
Speaker 3: Maybe death bad maybe death bed. Yeah, you're right, maybe.
Speaker 1: Unfortunately, we still have more victims. Next, there's Valerie Anne Street,
Speaker 1: age nineteen, found dead on May fifth, nineteen eighty under
Speaker 1: a bed at a quality inn in haspruk Heites, New Jersey,
Speaker 1: the very same hotel Mariann Carr's body was found two
Speaker 1: years earlier in the parking lot. Valerie Street had checked
Speaker 1: into room one three two using the alias Shelley Dudley,
Speaker 1: and she was accompanied by Cottingham. Later, when a maiden
Speaker 1: named Delia was cleaning up room one three two, she
Speaker 1: nearly tripped on an arm sticking out from under the bed.
Speaker 1: Delia had unknowingly walked into a horrific crime scene when
Speaker 1: she discovered Valerie's crumpled naked bodies stuffed underneath that nasty,
Speaker 1: overused bed. Valerie's body showed obvious signs of torture, including
Speaker 1: ligature marks on her throat, lacerations on her breasts, and
Speaker 1: angry red cuff marks around her wrists. Valerie had recently
Speaker 1: been arrested for prostitution in Miami, and she was last
Speaker 1: seen being picked up by a man in New York
Speaker 1: City near Times Square. The discovery of Street's body at
Speaker 1: the Quality Inn marked a significant event in Cottingham's series
Speaker 1: of crimes because, unbeknownst to Cottingham, he left a fingerprint
Speaker 1: in that hotel room. Cottingham was convicted of murdering Valeriande
Speaker 1: Street in nineteen eighty one. Tell me how that is
Speaker 1: a fear of mine. When I go to hotel rooms,
Speaker 1: I always look under the beds. I try to look
Speaker 1: under the bed because now there's usually because of stories,
Speaker 1: because of stories like this. Absolutely rely, yes.
Speaker 3: Yes, oh yeah, I don't.
Speaker 1: What was your what is your? So you never you
Speaker 1: don't fear it under the bed thing?
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 3: I think the last time I genuinely had that fear
Speaker 3: was probably I was a child hoous Okay, I've never
Speaker 3: no legit probably the last time. That's how long. It's
Speaker 3: been so long that I can remember the last time. Well,
Speaker 3: I mean I've seen them in creepy stop before, like
Speaker 3: I guess your eyes, you know, being a creepy as
Speaker 3: scene for sure that I remember. I'm sure there are others.
Speaker 3: I think Lights Out the movie had a few under
Speaker 3: the best stuff that was super creepy, but nothing like No, No,
Speaker 3: I don't have that as an adult.
Speaker 1: No, I don't, you know, got me on it now
Speaker 1: though I always look under beds. Pet Cemetery, Jade Creed,
Speaker 1: Gauge Creed.
Speaker 3: I mean, I'm not saying you don't mean the new
Speaker 3: one they want.
Speaker 1: Jade Jade Creed. I don't know. That sounds like a stripper.
Speaker 1: That's the little boy's name was Gauge Creed. Gauge, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: pet Cemetery.
Speaker 3: Name's a kid, Gauge. He reaches out, Hey, hey, can
Speaker 3: you read that yourself? Can you read yourself and tell
Speaker 3: me the number because it's the gauge set them.
Speaker 1: Boo When that kid reaches out from under the bed
Speaker 1: and slices Fred Gwinn fucking Herman monster's ankle?
Speaker 3: What is it?
Speaker 1: Whatever?
Speaker 3: Yeah? What is it with people being afraid of that?
Speaker 3: Why is that so horrifying of.
Speaker 1: People to get your achilles cut? Why is that because
Speaker 1: it cripples you, like it takes out everything tendon.
Speaker 3: But there's plenty of other way more horrible things to happen.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying. I hear that. I hear that a lot.
Speaker 3: I hear people, Oh yeah, you're not the first, you're
Speaker 3: the fifty first five d and first remember what's that
Speaker 3: rob zombie movie?
Speaker 1: That's one thousand corpses?
Speaker 3: Thank you? And then Hostile I think Hostile was maker.
Speaker 1: Did they cut the achilles in Hostile? Yes?
Speaker 3: And people were like, oh I remember that scene. I'm like, bitch,
Speaker 3: I've seen worse on Tuesday. I've seen worse in this
Speaker 3: other movie and three other movies. What are you talking about?
Speaker 3: How is this a big It's a it's a nanosecond
Speaker 3: of a shot.
Speaker 1: Yeh.
Speaker 3: I'm like, how is this a thing? Come on, get
Speaker 3: your life thing?
Speaker 1: For me, it was the combination of a child under
Speaker 1: the bed and then cutting that achilles.
Speaker 3: Oh no, it's so bad, you're fine and you're a
Speaker 3: lost costume but no, okay, you're fine.
Speaker 1: Got my birthday too?
Speaker 3: It did.
Speaker 1: On May fifteenth, nineteen eighty, the mutilated body of a
Speaker 1: twenty five year old prostitute named Jean Rayner was found
Speaker 1: at the Sayville Hotel on East twenty ninth Street in
Speaker 1: New York at eight o'clock that morning, Employees discovered Rayner's
Speaker 1: hotel room filled with smoke. Upon entering the room, it
Speaker 1: was discovered that Cottingham had unleashed unimaginable torment onto this
Speaker 1: helpless victim. Jean Rayner was found strangled, with her body
Speaker 1: indicating signs of torture, assault, and mutilation. Rayner's throat had
Speaker 1: been mercilessly slit and shockingly, Cottingham removed both of her
Speaker 1: breasts and in a truly demented display, he left the
Speaker 1: detached breasts on the beds headboard for all to see,
Speaker 1: and before leaving the hotel room, Cottingham lit the mattress
Speaker 1: on fire. He was convicted of Rayner's murder in nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty four.
Speaker 3: That's a hell of an escallation, by the way, from
Speaker 3: strangling in bushes, just sitting and dismembering.
Speaker 1: On capitating, cutting off breasts, making a display.
Speaker 3: And then comes from just not being conference along.
Speaker 1: Brazen, yeah, or just you know, it just does like drugs.
Speaker 1: You know, hey, weed is not doing it anymore. So
Speaker 1: when you fucking slam this heroin.
Speaker 3: I that's not howck that's not how.
Speaker 1: But it's the escalation, right, It's just you need more
Speaker 1: and more more.
Speaker 3: All the same. Like I'll try a little back okaine
Speaker 3: once a week and then it's every day. That's right.
Speaker 3: It's an escalation, that's more.
Speaker 1: That's what this is. Yeah, he's bored. He needs more
Speaker 1: to get off because remember sex equals violins, violence equals sex,
Speaker 1: you know sort of thing too.
Speaker 3: That yeah, for sure.
Speaker 1: Now, in the early morning hours of May twenty second,
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty May twenty seconds, my birthday just.
Speaker 3: Wasn't that like yesterday?
Speaker 1: It was?
Speaker 3: It was yesterday? Was yeah, yeah, almost two days.
Speaker 1: I don't remember that going forward. Really it's May twenty
Speaker 1: third right now.
Speaker 3: You know I have the ability to put that on
Speaker 3: my phone. I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1: I know, I know. In the early morning hours of
Speaker 1: my birthday nineteen eighty, Cottingham picked up eighteen year old
Speaker 1: Leslie and Odell Shay.
Speaker 3: You were eighteen at that time too.
Speaker 1: Shut up and she was soliciting sex on the corner
Speaker 1: of Lexington Avenue and twenty fifth Street in Manhattan. Cottingham
Speaker 1: and O'Dell negotiated money for sex, but they decided to
Speaker 1: go out for some drinks first, and as O'Dell loosened up,
Speaker 1: she confided in Cottingham that she was in a really
Speaker 1: bad situation with her piece of shit pimp and that
Speaker 1: she desperately wanted out of her current situation. Now. Cottingham,
Speaker 1: playing the role of someone wants to help a woman
Speaker 1: in distress, offered to drive Odell out of New York,
Speaker 1: get her on a bus, and help her get back
Speaker 1: home to her hometown of Olympia, Washington. Little did Leslie
Speaker 1: Odell know that the monster she ran into would turn
Speaker 1: out to be ten times worse than her piece of
Speaker 1: shit pimp. Right now before taking her to the bus station,
Speaker 1: but he never intended to do in the first place,
Speaker 1: Cottingham asked Leslie if she would you mind completing our
Speaker 1: transaction first before I take you to the bus station.
Speaker 1: It was such a superman, sayavior this guy right? Leslie agrees,
Speaker 1: So around Dawn, Richard Cottingham and Leslie Odell checked into
Speaker 1: the same Hasbrokite's quality in where Cottingham had left Valerieenne
Speaker 1: Street and Marianne Carr's bodies in the past. Talk about confidence,
Speaker 1: he's returning the scene in the crime for the third time.
Speaker 3: Well he's not getting caught.
Speaker 1: Why wouldn't he exactly?
Speaker 3: And also familiarity. It's big with this guy, more than most,
Speaker 3: maybe even.
Speaker 1: Now. Once the two were inside Room one point seventeen,
Speaker 1: Cottingham offered to give Leslie a massage, and she agreed,
Speaker 1: got onto the bed and rolled onto her stomach, awaiting
Speaker 1: a little pampering. Right, Cottingham straddled her back and immediately
Speaker 1: he drew a knife and stuck it to her throat.
Speaker 1: He slapped a pair of handcuffs on her wrists and
Speaker 1: then pulled out a gun and pointed at her while
Speaker 1: calling her a whore and saying you have to take
Speaker 1: it the other girls did. You have to take it too, whore,
Speaker 1: and you have to be punished. Then he began torturing her,
Speaker 1: slicing her with a knife, beating her with a belt,
Speaker 1: and he nearly bit off one of her nipples. Jesus,
Speaker 1: But luckily Leslie was a fighter and at one point
Speaker 1: when one of her hands was freed from the handcuffs.
Speaker 1: Leslie lunged for the gun and tried to shoot cootting him.
Speaker 1: But the gun was a fucking prop. It was a fake.
Speaker 1: So Leslie began to shout, oh my god, no, Oh
Speaker 1: my god, no, which drew the attention of a hotel worker, because,
Speaker 1: believe me, the hotel staff were already uneasy and on
Speaker 1: high alert, especially hotels. You know, all these murderers on beds,
Speaker 1: on fire and shed and right, they're on high alert
Speaker 1: because of these previous murders of Marianne Carr and Valerienne Street. Right.
Speaker 1: So the hotel's assistant manager began banging on that door,
Speaker 1: and Leslie opened up the door just a bit. She
Speaker 1: was able to, but the chain lock was still on,
Speaker 1: so she opened the door just enough to sneak her
Speaker 1: hand through, allowing her to make some hand signals to
Speaker 1: the manager that something was wrong, even though out loud
Speaker 1: she was saying everything was okay. The manager picked up
Speaker 1: on Leslie's nonverbal cues and the police were called. Cottingham
Speaker 1: knew this was bad. He had to get the fuck
Speaker 1: out of Dodge, so he dressed in his cute little
Speaker 1: businessman's suit with a fake gun in one hand and
Speaker 1: a briefcase like attash Shay case in the other. Cottingham
Speaker 1: fled down the hallway, but he was quickly apprehended by
Speaker 1: a shotgun wielding cop.
Speaker 3: And that's it.
Speaker 1: With that, the Times Square killer's reign of terror ended.
Speaker 1: Once the police discovered what was in his Attashee case handcuffs,
Speaker 1: black garbage bags, a leather gag, slave collars, a switchblade, knife,
Speaker 1: ankle cuffs, replica pistols, and a stockpile of prescription pills.
Speaker 1: The cops knew they finally had their man.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: It didn't take long for a search warrant to be
Speaker 1: issued for Richard Cottingham's Lodine, New Jersey home, and police
Speaker 1: executed a meticulous search of the property. The search led
Speaker 1: investigators to a locked basement where a startling array of
Speaker 1: items were discovered handcuffs, explicit artwork, a leather gag, more
Speaker 1: slave collars, and switche blade. None of these things are
Speaker 1: illegal to own, of course, nor are the indicative of
Speaker 1: a serial killer. However, police also found a trophy room,
Speaker 1: a room Cottingham always prohibited his wife and kids from.
Speaker 3: Entering this trophy room with.
Speaker 1: His sick man cave. Now, this trophy room contained all
Speaker 1: sorts of artifacts belonging to murdered women. A lot of
Speaker 1: killers keep trophies so they could kind of relive that
Speaker 1: excitement of their nasty crimes at a later time and
Speaker 1: relive them again and again and again. In Cottingham, he
Speaker 1: was no different. Now. It was the discovery of this
Speaker 1: trophy room that hammered the file nail, the final nail
Speaker 1: in Cottingham's coffin, and the public could finally put a
Speaker 1: face to the time Square killer, the monster. Between nineteen
Speaker 1: eighty one and nineteen eighty four, Richard Cottingham was charged
Speaker 1: with murder, kidnapping, and sexual assault in connection with five
Speaker 1: different women, two in New Jersey and three in New York.
Speaker 1: That would be Valerie Street, Mary Anne Carr, Ddie Gazari,
Speaker 1: Gene Rayner, and the unidentified Jane Doe, found beheaded and
Speaker 1: burnt in the hotel room. With all said and done,
Speaker 1: after his initial convictions back in the early eighties, coupled
Speaker 1: with his confessions decades later, including a confession I just
Speaker 1: read about from March twenty twenty three, where Cottingham confessed
Speaker 1: to killing a seventeen year old girl named mary Anne
Speaker 1: Della Sala in Hackensack, New Jersey, in January sixty seven,
Speaker 1: which makes Dela Sala Cottingham's actual earliest victim, not Nancy
Speaker 1: Shieva Vogel, who murdered in October of sixty seven. Plus
Speaker 1: his convictions on non murder charges, rape, sexual assault, shit
Speaker 1: like that, so all in Conningham was given multiple multiple
Speaker 1: life sentence By my account, he's in for well over
Speaker 1: three hundred years. And he never really gave a reason
Speaker 1: as to why he committed his crimes. He told investigators
Speaker 1: that he enjoyed getting away with his horrible crimes each
Speaker 1: time he did that. He liked the thrill of literally
Speaker 1: getting away with murder. That and he once simply said
Speaker 1: that he has a problem with women. Well, I mean,
Speaker 1: it's it. That's what gets him off. I mean, is this,
Speaker 1: why is this? There's no brime, there's no grand reason. No,
Speaker 1: that's all he's given over the years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's insane. This is what makes him come. This
Speaker 3: is how that's how most of these guys are. That's
Speaker 3: all it is. You know, obviously he stemmed from a
Speaker 3: lot of shit and all that. Yeah, you can keep
Speaker 3: going digging that rabbit hole. But that's why it starts
Speaker 3: and end in a lot of ways, you know, like
Speaker 3: there's no real reason. It's not it's no hate to
Speaker 3: the world that betrays them, Like, no, it's just something
Speaker 3: like this happens.
Speaker 1: People want a reason, they want a.
Speaker 3: A reason beyond the obvious that he gets off on it.
Speaker 3: That's it. That's it, that's all. It's like whatever. Yeah, no,
Speaker 3: I'm just saying. I'm not saying I'm fine with that reasoning.
Speaker 3: But it makes sense that that's the main reason. Like
Speaker 3: what else could it be, Like it will try hard
Speaker 3: to not kill someone, Yeah, God forbid do that every day? Knock.
Speaker 3: I was gonna say something to that, you know what
Speaker 3: that first murder, I don't remember anymore of the details,
Speaker 3: and that you don't have to go back. But it
Speaker 3: did seem I don't say it seemed practice, but it
Speaker 3: didn't feel like it's first. Yeah, it probably I forgot
Speaker 3: to mention that actually it probably wasn't. That makes sense, No,
Speaker 3: I mean like maybe I don't know.
Speaker 1: This wasn't because we just find what I'm saying earlier.
Speaker 3: When you first told it, I'm like, yeah, it didn't
Speaker 3: seem like a first because he does a few car ones.
Speaker 3: Then he does a few impromptu opportunities to type ones
Speaker 3: where they're using their own straps on street doesn't matter.
Speaker 3: And he finds out we can get away with so fast,
Speaker 3: and the bus stops and ship and it's like, how
Speaker 3: far can I go? Can I behead them? Can I
Speaker 3: put them on fire? Can I do any? Hotels? And
Speaker 3: just keep doing it?
Speaker 1: Yeah, the same place.
Speaker 3: Also like, I'm surprised I took this many. I mean
Speaker 3: at least a third for sure. Motel murder, hotel motel
Speaker 3: murder that no one heard anything, gave us shit, you
Speaker 3: know before that seems like, yeah.
Speaker 1: How do you behead someone and no one hears it
Speaker 1: in the hotel? It's fucking crazy.
Speaker 3: How how indeed?
Speaker 1: Well, you know these kind of hotels, people they stick
Speaker 1: to themselves. There are a lot of the people there.
Speaker 3: I understand that anonymity is a big thing.
Speaker 1: They want their animity exactly.
Speaker 3: I know that's a big thing.
Speaker 1: But you would, I know, I know. But we're thinking
Speaker 1: about rational took.
Speaker 3: From a slit on the door, knock her, screaming her
Speaker 3: head off all that time.
Speaker 1: You know, that's what triggered him to come.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's still she needed to do that. No,
Speaker 3: I won't want to meet late, right, But no, it's crazy.
Speaker 3: I'm not saying I think we're a little better about
Speaker 3: that now. I would hope. I don't know, but that's crazy.
Speaker 3: That's crazy.
Speaker 1: I'm to the end here now. After one of his
Speaker 1: early trials, cotting Him tried to kill himself by slicing
Speaker 1: his wrists with broken glass from his eyeglasses actually so
Speaker 1: he focus on live, tried to kill himself, and while
Speaker 1: in prison, he attempted suicide again by trying to ode
Speaker 1: on medication. I think it was antidepressants. Okay, Now today,
Speaker 1: Richard Cottingham, he's still alive. He's seventy eight years old,
Speaker 1: he's in very poor health, and he has absolutely no
Speaker 1: possibility of parole. Well, no held die in prison and good,
Speaker 1: you know, good riddance when it finally happens.
Speaker 3: Fuck this guy, Yeah, okay, I wonder So obviously the
Speaker 3: police were looking for this cereal, but they only knew
Speaker 3: and probably were only chasing a guy who killed two
Speaker 3: well sorry, who committed two crimes with three people because
Speaker 3: he killed two it at once. But like these hotel
Speaker 3: specific fire decapitation type, that's when people probably. I mean
Speaker 3: authorities actually took notice. No way anybody was looking for
Speaker 3: him and those other previous murders, because strangulation seems to
Speaker 3: be like top tier reason to kill someone to begin with.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's there's really you know, and.
Speaker 3: Also not connecting the New Jersey murders either. All that,
Speaker 3: all that must have been so surprising, like, oh shit,
Speaker 3: this guy's been killing from right.
Speaker 1: Fuck. There's never an indication that early on they thought
Speaker 1: were dealing with a serial killer, right.
Speaker 3: I wonder if they were thinking that, well, we taught
Speaker 3: him before we killed so many, Like no pre killed many.
Speaker 3: You just didn't know about it.
Speaker 1: There's more to write, he says, one hundred some investigators believe.
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's that high. I think I
Speaker 1: definitely think there's more. I definitely think there's more that
Speaker 1: we don't about.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I wouldn't say one hundred either. I think if
Speaker 3: there's more.
Speaker 1: It could be a you know, again, going to New York.
Speaker 3: I know, I know that there was a.
Speaker 1: Lot of desperation, a lot of people down and out.
Speaker 3: I give him another dozen one.
Speaker 1: There could have been a lot of easy pickings, man,
Speaker 1: which is really sad, But it could be that high.
Speaker 1: Who knows he this was a fucking sick, deranged individual
Speaker 1: who blended in perfectly right.
Speaker 3: Because I'm ridiculously normal.
Speaker 1: He was right the quote no one saw this guy CD,
Speaker 1: you know, which is terrifying. It's fucking terrifying.
Speaker 3: Even the way he was a serial killer. He was
Speaker 3: a ridiculously normal serial killer.
Speaker 1: No, I don't think he was.
Speaker 3: No, he wasn't saying a very like toophy room.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: Oh but when it gets to decat familiar cutting off
Speaker 3: the ball, I meant, like, what gets them there?
Speaker 1: I see, you know, I guess so that's that's the
Speaker 1: that's the Times Square killer. But Richard ctting him the
Speaker 1: Torso killer?
Speaker 3: Was he called that before he was caught, like a
Speaker 3: newspaper killer.
Speaker 1: I don't believe. So that came after the fact, once
Speaker 1: he started piecing everything together. Yeah, crazy, though.
Speaker 3: Not many Times Score killings, so as you imagine, no to.
Speaker 1: Be nicknamed the Time Square killing. So I mean, uh
Speaker 1: final thoughts.
Speaker 3: Uh No, No, I think I said it. I think
Speaker 3: I gave my pH any anything particular with you, like,
Speaker 3: I'm good.
Speaker 1: I need to I need to go rinse off. This
Speaker 1: is makes me feel dirty talking about this stuff. I'm good, Oscar,
Speaker 1: take us home, you beautiful man, oh, thank you? And
Speaker 1: TikTok or Instagram and seeing these whiskey bottles in the
Speaker 1: shape of like Jaws or Jack Torrens or there was
Speaker 1: another one. Have you seen him?
Speaker 3: No, I get nothing alcohol related.
Speaker 1: Katie got me the Jaws one for my birthday?
Speaker 3: And was your birthday recently?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yesterday?
Speaker 3: Is it yesterday?
Speaker 2: Ready?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm sorry, I have your birthday. I didn't know that.
Speaker 3: But then, to be fair, I don't think i've ever
Speaker 3: have I ever celebrated your birthday? Probably on the day, yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Oh, maybe not.
Speaker 3: On the day. You know, I usually rely on in
Speaker 3: the old days, I would rely on Facebook.
Speaker 1: Oh you don't go on Facebook, and.
Speaker 3: I don't do it anymore. So I don't know anybody's
Speaker 3: birthday no more, you know. By the way, I recommend
Speaker 3: I don't know if you're a fan, but I recommend
Speaker 3: the New Final Destination.
Speaker 1: I really want to see it.
Speaker 3: It's really fun.
Speaker 1: I like them all.
Speaker 3: It's really good. I do like them all too. They're
Speaker 3: all on on HBO right now, all five or six whatever.
Speaker 3: So this new was good, Yeah, very good, very cool.
Speaker 3: They do a spin on the whole thing. They have
Speaker 3: their own kind of take on it, but they stay
Speaker 3: within the universe. Really yeah, I kind of agree with that.
Speaker 3: Pretty two or three, pretty gruesome kills. I'm like, oh shit,
Speaker 3: yeah that's cool. A whole head gets fucking smashed.
Speaker 1: I think one of the coolest kills I've seen lately
Speaker 1: was in that Horrible movie where.
Speaker 3: It was like, from Jason's point of view, you're talking yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: you're talking about the violent nature.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That was probably the coolest kill I've seen lately.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that was cool.
Speaker 1: Are you recording right now?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: The voices sound fine, so.
Speaker 3: Words uh yeah, yeah, you so fine. I would have
Speaker 3: said it.
Speaker 1: Does sound okay, yeah, alright, cool.
Speaker 3: He's not good what I'm gonna say. Yeah, So, I
Speaker 3: really liked it. I do highly recommend. It's not like
Speaker 3: my favorite or anything, but it's it's up there. Man,
Speaker 3: It's like two or three. It's really good. Pretty good.
Speaker 3: Made me think of a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe one.
Speaker 3: I we watched the whole series and they did, so
Speaker 3: that was one. I've been playing. It's a badass new game,
Speaker 3: but it's a horror so I don't know if you care.
Speaker 3: Since I've been playing this puzzle game and addicted to it. Clearly,
Speaker 3: it's a puzzle game where you're an heir to an
Speaker 3: inheritance a mansion or in the states as sure in
Speaker 3: the state, and the whole time you're playing is that
Speaker 3: you're part of the conditions of the inheritance if you
Speaker 3: want it. Is that you have to explore this massive house.
Speaker 3: But every time, every day is different. Every day when
Speaker 3: you open a new door, it's going to be a
Speaker 3: different room one of three possibilities that you can choose.
Speaker 3: You basically lay out the mansion as you go, and
Speaker 3: it's like each room will have a puzzle sometimes, and
Speaker 3: there's grander puzzles overall that you have to figure out
Speaker 3: and solve. There's a lot of history about the family
Speaker 3: and stuff. A lot of interesting puzzles too, Like there's
Speaker 3: a boiler room. You have to connect to power of
Speaker 3: this thing, to power of that room.
Speaker 1: Like escape room almost.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it is escape room mansion style.
Speaker 1: That's cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's kind of fun. I've been addicted. Like, dude,
Speaker 3: I just figured out how to drain the reservoir. I'm like,
Speaker 3: I can't wait to explore that. I almost didn't come.
Speaker 3: And there's a real hustle game down there, the taxi
Speaker 3: hustle game. It's crazy, really, it must be how women
Speaker 3: feel being cat called. I felt like, Jesus, I'm a
Speaker 3: tempt taken.
Speaker 1: We have a tax Did you speak Spanish pretty much
Speaker 1: whole time you're down there? Or did you speak No?
Speaker 3: And the resort not very often? I mean to the
Speaker 3: employee is sure when I was at their shop, so yeah,
Speaker 3: of course, but like in general, no, never speaks English.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So all white people, different types of white people.
Speaker 1: When you talk to the workers shoppenders and you spoke
Speaker 1: their language, were they more cool with you? Did they
Speaker 1: give you deals or anything?
Speaker 3: Or they're just like they seem nicer about it. Yeah, overall,
Speaker 3: but not not again any special treatment that I noticed,
Speaker 3: You know, they just care if you tip them one
Speaker 3: of I guess, right, that's really it.
Speaker 1: I thought maybe they'd be like one of us, one
Speaker 1: of us.
Speaker 3: No, I don't think so. I don't think so. But
Speaker 3: I also didn't notice a lot of the Hispanics that
Speaker 3: were there on vacation either. But that makes sense. I
Speaker 3: guess why would they go there the.
Speaker 1: Bealification in the journey or something.
Speaker 3: But also we do vacation you went to New Orleans
Speaker 3: all the time, but that's in their own country, so
Speaker 3: it's not like out of the realm of possibility, right right.
Speaker 3: But overall, No, I didn't notice many No and again
Speaker 3: special treatment. I made jokes with us howel girls every
Speaker 3: once in a while. No, not that.
Speaker 1: Why was it expecting like these crazy sex compaid stories
Speaker 1: with you?
Speaker 3: No, I felt like and not that I had to
Speaker 3: be tamed, but I just never I never felt it.
Speaker 3: Like I usually go with a vibe and then if
Speaker 3: I don't feel it, I don't do anything. If I
Speaker 3: feel it, I'll do something.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: That's really how it work, all right, right, Yeah, okay,
Speaker 3: did not see many opportunities. A lot of people with
Speaker 3: families are also. I wasn't like only adults, they were
Speaker 3: only adult area, sure, like at night or whatever.
Speaker 1: But like and who got married cloud?
Speaker 3: No greg Remergreg? Yeah you played played poker with him?
Speaker 1: Or like thirty years ago.
Speaker 3: He got married? Good to the girlfriend he had thirty
Speaker 3: years ago? Same girl? Okay, yeah, good, good for that. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and Raf went yeah he was the best man.
Speaker 1: Was he really nice? And he didn't even have you
Speaker 1: stand up? Have me? Yeah? Why groomsman? You've known him
Speaker 1: for thirty years.
Speaker 3: Oh no, we're not friends like that really, but you
Speaker 3: went to his wedding like a destination with I mean, well,
Speaker 3: I'm friends like that. I'm like, oh, like, way to
Speaker 3: give me? Like this sucks like flirting with them.
Speaker 1: They won't care.
Speaker 3: No, well I care?
Speaker 1: Well, good, that's good.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't before. I didn't know for a long time,
Speaker 3: but I do now, you know, And it's an overall thing,
Speaker 3: like it's it's too close to fucking where I eat,
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, like you know they know people
Speaker 3: that I know. You know, it's a complete stranger. I
Speaker 3: would never know that. Why would I care? But like
Speaker 3: you know, there's limits. It's never good.
Speaker 1: It's not it's not.
Speaker 3: It's more of a scay in a fun way, but
Speaker 3: it's not good.
Speaker 1: Say you should come and walking with us tomorrow.
Speaker 3: I would love to. I need to work. I need
Speaker 3: to make money. If I make a certain amount, I
Speaker 3: would love to come.
Speaker 1: Up because it's you know, for my birthday and.
Speaker 3: All for your birthday.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Angelo Bono and Kenneth Angelo Bono Junior. Let's
Speaker 1: stop market, can.
Speaker 3: You oh for real?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Okay, I hate that guy's name. You don't have to
Speaker 3: say it. Where do I start blah?
Speaker 1: What would you say blassy?
Speaker 3: It's the thing is that it's because in English language
Speaker 3: we write different a's all over the place.
Speaker 1: And again it does we don't know.
Speaker 3: We don't explain those differences. Other languages they do try
Speaker 3: to explain, uh.
Speaker 1: Ah, you know blasse blass.
Speaker 3: Blast blah blast blah. I don't think it's bla.
Speaker 1: B l A s E mark above the e. Does
Speaker 1: it mean.
Speaker 3: Blasse blasse blasse blass.
Speaker 1: We're gonna say, I read blasse.
Speaker 3: Yeah, maybe like that done. But that's the thing that
Speaker 3: other you know, other languages do try to explain their
Speaker 3: differences on those bowels, but we don't.
Speaker 1: Figure it out exactly.
Speaker 3: That's why no one likes her language either.
Speaker 1: Bloss. We're can say blass right, yeah, bos.
Speaker 3: Bloss.
Speaker 1: Have you seen this new series called yeah, called Rogan.
Speaker 3: The Studio, the Studio. Yeah, I've heard great things. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna start it. I'm gonna start it. I just haven't
Speaker 3: seen it.
Speaker 1: I resisted because I don't like that Rogan crew.
Speaker 3: Like oh, I thought you were gonna say you don't
Speaker 3: like movies about movies.
Speaker 1: Like Seth Rogan James Franco, Dave Franco, like all that
Speaker 1: little that click that click. I don't get into them,
Speaker 1: but this is it's a pretty good show.
Speaker 3: So you know, like knocked up or this is the end, or.
Speaker 1: Of course I do. I just don't want to like it.
Speaker 3: You're resistance even though you like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, this show is good.
Speaker 3: I wonder if it's what's the equivalent of that. It's like,
Speaker 3: it's like admitting that you like all American rejects, but
Speaker 3: you don't want to say it all out right. Have
Speaker 3: you heard? Okay, so everyone's been talking to me about this.
Speaker 3: I saw on TikTok that they did a surprise literally
Speaker 3: surprised out of the blue concert and someone's backyard in Chicago.
Speaker 3: No way, not in Chicago, but like somewhere close to Chicago. Yeah,
Speaker 3: like less than two weeks ago. Wow, And this was
Speaker 3: on my TikTok. I saw one huge. Yeah they're huge.
Speaker 3: I know they're huge. Wha yeah, I mean still just
Speaker 3: be whatever. They're huge. I know that. I saw my feed.
Speaker 3: I you order right away. I don't care for sh
Speaker 3: about them. I never liked them, but I swear to God,
Speaker 3: my brother fucking comes up to me or my old
Speaker 3: Starbucks employee friends come up to me. They're like, like,
Speaker 3: you see this video about I don't know, fuck about
Speaker 3: the American bea check. I'm like, what makes you think
Speaker 3: this is news worthy to me? So that's why I
Speaker 3: had it in my head? And and like why the fuck?
Speaker 1: Who the like?
Speaker 3: Never bring me this week ass new ship again? Sorry
Speaker 3: yelling by the third person, that third person, Sorry for
Speaker 3: that person. The third time I get told, I'm like,
Speaker 3: motherfucker if you start getting angry at people for no reason,
Speaker 3: They're like, I just I just want to tell you
Speaker 3: they keep to Chicago.
Speaker 1: Who g is a fuck?
Speaker 3: Who comes to Chicago?
Speaker 1: Chicago too?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And fuck you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny. I thought it was like, oh man,
Speaker 3: that guy. They sound like every other band from that
Speaker 3: era too. I can't tell them apart, and I really
Speaker 3: can't tell. Most of them are nothing. You meet You're
Speaker 3: right playing White T's They sound the same that picked
Speaker 3: that band at this small Ville intro. They'll frame to me.
Speaker 3: Many kept saying like, did they do that song from Smallville?
Speaker 3: But like no, that was this band, like fucking the
Speaker 3: same bro, they looked funk, sound the same, same three
Speaker 3: chords or whatever. It's nonsense anarchy.
Speaker 1: Speaking of that, there's a there's a cool kind of
Speaker 1: little punkish kind of bar in Milwaukee, kind of down
Speaker 1: the street from Shakers. Have you gone to Shakers with us?
Speaker 1: The Haunted place?
Speaker 3: I haven't. The only Milwaukee I've been with you is
Speaker 3: is Fither Fister Fister. That's the only time I've been Tomorrow, Okay,
Speaker 3: So what was.
Speaker 1: A cool little punk bar they got pool table ship Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think it's Feiserve Stadium. Okay, that's what you're thinking of.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna start over with Valiant Valerie and Street
Speaker 3: Valerie on the Street, Valerie an Street, I know, okay, right,
Speaker 3: do you