Speaker 1: Welcome to the first episode of Super League three sixty.
Speaker 1: My name is Lee Addison, what's yours.
Speaker 2: My name is John Davidson.
Speaker 1: We're back, John, we got rid of us.
Speaker 2: We had a month off, five weeks.
Speaker 1: Off, not even that, I don't think we did the
Speaker 1: Ashes Rugby League podcast and you can you can still
Speaker 1: if you're listening to the Actually Rugby League podcast and
Speaker 1: thinking this isn't the Ashes. We're making it available on
Speaker 1: the Ashes Rugby League podcast platform. But Super League three
Speaker 1: sixty obviously, John is a British rugby league lean, isn't it,
Speaker 1: and more specifically super League. But such as the nature
Speaker 1: of the sport in England, mate, we could end up
Speaker 1: in all sorts of directions, couldn't we, including lower leagues
Speaker 1: and international and political?
Speaker 2: We could, Yes, lots of segues to many different issues,
Speaker 2: and anyone who follows super League it's pretty linked closely
Speaker 2: with the NR on Vice FIRSTA these days, particularly in
Speaker 2: terms of takeout overs and player transfers and everything else.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, well we'll we'll dedicate we'll dedicate some
Speaker 1: time each week to touch on the NRL and each
Speaker 1: week there'll be a special analysis segment from myself and
Speaker 1: that will have its own clip on YouTube as well,
Speaker 1: So for those listening on the platforms, the various platforms,
Speaker 1: I'll put it at the end of the podcast so
Speaker 1: that if it doesn't make sense to you, you can
Speaker 1: you can watch the clip individually on YouTube. Today the
Speaker 1: clip doesn't include any Super League footage. It's got Ashes
Speaker 1: footage and a few other historical bits. But in the
Speaker 1: future we're going to do plenty of Super League content
Speaker 1: and I'm really keen. I'm really keen to study. Okay,
Speaker 1: are actually ahead of the World Club Challenge? John John's
Speaker 1: an intrepid scribe who will no doubt get us some
Speaker 1: interviews over the course of the next however long this
Speaker 1: podcast last. When when when do you think you'll be
Speaker 1: able to do that? When will they be in the
Speaker 1: mood for it? Do you think?
Speaker 2: Ah, that's a good question. I'm actually trying to tea
Speaker 2: up some so many of these this week. And it's
Speaker 2: funny you mentioned whole K because I was in touch
Speaker 2: with them about going into training at some point before Christmas.
Speaker 2: Actually some hole kre content.
Speaker 1: I think Willie Peters in New York or something.
Speaker 2: So they're in full swing of pre season and lovely
Speaker 2: cold hole.
Speaker 1: Now on the Rugby League Coach podcast, which I host.
Speaker 1: I've been asking for a water sponsor for at least
Speaker 1: two years and I finally got one because as you know,
Speaker 1: I'm always drinking water aroun'd or this.
Speaker 2: Or a pint drink with forty eight water bottles.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and because I often record in the morning, well well,
Speaker 1: well it's your evening. Because you're a Australian in England.
Speaker 1: I have coffee as well, So I think the sponsorship
Speaker 1: opportunities for this podcast right. So I've been sponsored by
Speaker 1: Global League Network for the Rugby League Coach podcast and
Speaker 1: I'm going to give them a shout out on this
Speaker 1: one as well, just to show people what what what
Speaker 1: exposure they can get if they if they sponsor my
Speaker 1: water consumption. I drink about six liters a day, which
Speaker 1: some people think is bad for you, but I'm a
Speaker 1: big unit mate, So there is global water, a lot
Speaker 1: of cells and muscles and everything to populate. That's it.
Speaker 1: That's it, that's it. I'm an Englishman as coach at
Speaker 1: MRL clubs and stuff, and I've lived in Australia a
Speaker 1: long time. What are you, John, I'm a.
Speaker 2: Journalist of twenty years experience and right for numerous regular
Speaker 2: publications are The League Express and others.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you said thirteen the other week. Did you
Speaker 1: count every week as a year?
Speaker 2: No, I've been living in the UK for thirteen years.
Speaker 1: My apologize. Just now we're nearly at the end of
Speaker 1: the longest introduction ever. I am at Rugby League Coach
Speaker 1: dot com to say you at Rugby League Coach on
Speaker 1: socials and like I said, I hope a host of
Speaker 1: the Rugby League Coach podcast. Where can people get you?
Speaker 2: John? You can get me on Exit Johnny d Davidson.
Speaker 2: They can get me on Facebook at John Davidson Journalist
Speaker 2: and on Patreon at Rugby League hub dot com long Reads.
Speaker 1: Now different to other podcasts. We're going to have sections
Speaker 1: on this and we can even have a sponsor for
Speaker 1: the section. The first section is called key Stories. There's
Speaker 1: been a bit of signing, retention and release news in
Speaker 1: the UK lately, hasn't they? The David Klemmer, Jackson Hastings, Newman,
Speaker 1: those three that spring to mind. Yeah, yeah, a bit
Speaker 1: of a surprise, probably, well, probably all three a bit
Speaker 1: of a surprise really.
Speaker 2: I think the Jackson Hastings one is interesting because obviously
Speaker 2: I don't even know if he played first grade in
Speaker 2: Newcastle this year.
Speaker 1: A little bit at the Yeah.
Speaker 2: He's been on the hour at the Nights for Ages.
Speaker 2: I think he was linked with Leeds a while ago.
Speaker 2: But I mean he has been sort of kicked out
Speaker 2: of a lot of clubs, you know, not gone on
Speaker 2: with teammates and a lot of clubs, so it was
Speaker 2: sort of an unwanted property in the NRL and it
Speaker 2: was sort of surprising to see. Obviously Sint Helens didn't
Speaker 2: need a half back and he's he's a talented half back,
Speaker 2: but it's surprising to see them sign him. Also a
Speaker 2: former Wigan player, so you don't usually see that many
Speaker 2: ex Wigan players go to Saint Helens or vice versa
Speaker 2: because it is the oldest riberry in rugby league. But
Speaker 2: I think Paul Rowley had the association when he was
Speaker 2: on the staff at Salford. It'll be interesting to see
Speaker 2: how that one goes. And then obviously David Klemer winding
Speaker 2: down his career, you would say, uh, you know, obviously
Speaker 2: moved on from Newcastle and moved on from the Tigers,
Speaker 2: and then I think it was at the Dragons wasn't he,
Speaker 2: So yeah, they need some impact in a full pack.
Speaker 2: But yeah, another one. You you wonder how that's going
Speaker 2: to go, how much is left in the legs. But obviously,
Speaker 2: you know he's had a great career origin Australia, et cetera. Yeah,
Speaker 2: an old school front row, shall we say, with the
Speaker 2: foreign Broomstone.
Speaker 1: You did a tweet about Bradford signing, didn't you, who's
Speaker 1: not played that much?
Speaker 2: Yes, to have I mean it was Ryan Sutton and
Speaker 2: I wasn't. I mean context is everything, and I wasn't
Speaker 2: actually poking. I wasn't having a go at Bradford or
Speaker 2: Ryan Sutton. Obviously he's had a lot of injury problems
Speaker 2: and I don't think I can't remember the exact stats.
Speaker 2: He's not played many games. I think he only played
Speaker 2: a handful of reserve grade games last year and all
Speaker 2: through this year and the year before that. Not many
Speaker 2: NRL games before that. So it's an interesting signing by Bradford.
Speaker 2: You know, obviously he's one Grand finals I think at Wigan.
Speaker 2: But yeah, a lot of Bradford fans are unhappy about it,
Speaker 2: and John Bateman had to pop at me as well.
Speaker 2: But I think as I said, contact is everything. When
Speaker 2: you're looking for players in what November October, there's not
Speaker 2: many players. What people forget that the only players generally
Speaker 2: available this time are players that no club wants or
Speaker 2: they've been packed for some sort of off field controversy,
Speaker 2: which is obviously not any of the players that we
Speaker 2: just mentioned, but I mean in terms of the off
Speaker 2: field controversy. But yeah, they're unwanted because most players make
Speaker 2: decisions on their future nine to ten months in advance,
Speaker 2: and probably so people forget that. So it is very
Speaker 2: hard for Bradford, for York for to lose, to be
Speaker 2: trying to build squads for Super League with you know,
Speaker 2: four or five months.
Speaker 1: Notice and half the budget. Well Bradford don't have a
Speaker 1: half the budget, but yes, the other two. Yeah, definitely
Speaker 1: talking of players who've planned ahead of things. Harry Newman
Speaker 1: going to Perth, what can Perth fans expect?
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a real surprising one because I was
Speaker 2: actually listening to some other podcasts. Apparently he was linked
Speaker 2: to an ror movie years ago when he kind of
Speaker 2: burst on the scene. It apparently was South Sydney when
Speaker 2: Shane Richard Richardson was there. We tried to sign him. Now.
Speaker 2: He's an interesting one, Harry, very talented attacking center, quickly,
Speaker 2: quite dynamic, but probably known for not having the best temperamate.
Speaker 2: You know, gets wound up easily, loses his cool easily.
Speaker 2: He did play in the Third Test for England against
Speaker 2: Australian and Ashes most recently. So yeah, it's interesting that Perth.
Speaker 2: I think a lot of people in super League thought
Speaker 2: Perth would try and target some and some super League
Speaker 2: players and this has obviously happened. One of their first
Speaker 2: signers I think, well, he's obviously not been confirmed, but
Speaker 2: probably one of the first signings that's actually come out
Speaker 2: apart from Lindsay Smith. So will you adapt? How will
Speaker 2: he go? I mean, yeah, some English players do really
Speaker 2: well in the NROL. People in super League tend to
Speaker 2: forget the ones that don't do so well, So will Price.
Speaker 2: You know, Calm Watkins didn't do well. There's lots right,
Speaker 2: Hall barely played a game. There's lots who failed. There's
Speaker 2: probably more who failed than thrive, to be honest, and
Speaker 2: the ones who generally do succeed are props and edge
Speaker 2: back rowers.
Speaker 1: Magic Weekends going to Everton again. Sorry, we're going to
Speaker 1: Everton again as a game. Magic Weekend is going there.
Speaker 1: Are they going to paint the field this time? Lines?
Speaker 2: No? No, we're just who needs lines? It's just like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, that's another one that I mean only judging
Speaker 2: by my social media, but a lot of people hate it.
Speaker 2: Look from the obviously I was there for the second Test.
Speaker 2: From the media point of view, it's a fantastic stadium,
Speaker 2: like bright, new, shiny, lovely place in the docks. There's
Speaker 2: not a huge amount around it. It's a little bit
Speaker 2: out of the center of Liverpool, but I don't think
Speaker 2: it's that far. There are a couple of pubs nearby,
Speaker 2: and people got legs and they can get ubers. Well
Speaker 2: some people have legs obviously sometimes, but it's a bit
Speaker 2: It's a great for those who.
Speaker 1: Don't obviously get you get you get your transport book.
Speaker 1: But Newcastle, from the reporting that's been their Newcastle wanted
Speaker 1: a bit more money. Everyone was cheaper Everton. Obviously, Liverpool
Speaker 1: is a lot closer to Wigginson, Helen's, Warrington Lee, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So look, I think it will be great there. I've
Speaker 1: already booked my Saturday hotel. I love great Liverpool's a
Speaker 1: great city as his Newcastle. But yeah, I think it's
Speaker 1: a I think it's a positive they picked. I can't
Speaker 1: remember the exact lineup of fixtures, but I think we're
Speaker 1: going to play in Saint Helen's to end to.
Speaker 2: End on the Sunday. I think the first game might be,
Speaker 2: off the top of my head, York harders Field. But
Speaker 2: I think they've got a good mixture.
Speaker 1: Of league playing Bradford, are.
Speaker 2: They I'm not. I'm not one hundred percent sure now
Speaker 2: I need to check, but look, I think it's good.
Speaker 2: The interesting thing is though, with Super leg going from
Speaker 2: twelve to fourteen teams that were going to scrap magic
Speaker 2: and they didn't want loot fixtures, but then it's been
Speaker 2: resurrected and it's a little fixture. It's great.
Speaker 1: I think credit where credits due. The Super League of
Speaker 1: Rugby League Rugby Football League been quite good at leaking
Speaker 1: stories out in the last few weeks, and I think
Speaker 1: the L's probably on a bit of a hiatus in
Speaker 1: that regard. And as you know, Australia tends to shut
Speaker 1: down somewhat in the summer. I know that the Daily Telegraph,
Speaker 1: for example, have done their last sport confidential column literally
Speaker 1: yesterday and they said we're going to have time off
Speaker 1: till next year. So so Superleg's got a great chance,
Speaker 1: particularly with the season starting so early as well. What
Speaker 1: is going on at Salford because they were a Super
Speaker 1: League side and I think they have had more adjournments
Speaker 1: than wins this year, so they've had more adjourments of
Speaker 1: their court case, their money thingy. What's going on?
Speaker 2: Yeah, well they've got another so the d you're back
Speaker 2: in court on December third, so what is it we're
Speaker 2: recording on the twenty seventh, well twenty seventh where I
Speaker 2: am in the twenty eighth where you are of November.
Speaker 2: But they've got their back in court. Look, I think,
Speaker 2: to put it lightly, they're buggered as a club. They've
Speaker 2: got I think we've got an assistant coach. I don't
Speaker 2: think they've got any players left and I've got about
Speaker 2: three or four staff. So essentially the pin just needs
Speaker 2: to be pulled. It's it's amazing how these owners keep
Speaker 2: getting adjournments because they don't seem to have any money.
Speaker 2: But effectively there's at least two groups who are looking
Speaker 2: to take over the club once they go bust. The
Speaker 2: RFL has kind of shown that they're not going to
Speaker 2: do anything. They're just going to let the courts ballo
Speaker 2: it out. But the problem is the championship doesn't start
Speaker 2: too long, so it's Alford if they you know, if
Speaker 2: they're reborn as a phoenix club will go on to
Speaker 2: the championship. So they need to recruit a coach and players.
Speaker 2: But yeah, there's there's a lot going on there. There's
Speaker 2: there's a fair bit I can't reveal right as now.
Speaker 2: I've been chasing a few things up, but I think
Speaker 2: in the next week or so things were not crystallize
Speaker 2: in terms of what will happen and what has happened
Speaker 2: over and the situation with Sulford, I mean, you were
Speaker 2: a soul forty and eightly. The club's always been well
Speaker 2: broke might not be the word, but a battler, haven't
Speaker 2: they even the John even in the John Wilkinson days.
Speaker 2: I mean John Wilkinson left the club I think in
Speaker 2: twenty thirteen. I mean he left it in debt.
Speaker 1: It was the classic yo yo club and with Super
Speaker 1: League for a couple of years and then they've won
Speaker 1: on championship for a couple of years and had a
Speaker 1: good Stint was at the seventies. The seventies, Yeah, Brian
Speaker 1: Snake was the chairman that.
Speaker 2: It was the golden era, and I think from what
Speaker 2: I've been told, even in the golden era, like the
Speaker 2: most really our averaging fans was about six ers fans
Speaker 2: a week.
Speaker 1: It's it's a unique place because Salford Salford. Salford is
Speaker 1: a city but is seen as a town, so much
Speaker 1: so that the song dirty Old Town was apparently about Salford,
Speaker 1: and therefore solf Audiums see Salford as being the motorway
Speaker 1: that goes past the Trafford Center everything inside that is
Speaker 1: potentially Salford, even though that's Eckles and then Eccles. But
Speaker 1: where Salford's ground is right now on the other side
Speaker 1: of that motorway. Many people will say that's not Salford,
Speaker 1: even though it's probably classed as the city of Salford.
Speaker 1: And many people feel that Salford sort of ends just
Speaker 1: past the whole hospital kind of thing when when you
Speaker 1: go into Eccles. So some people complain that the club
Speaker 1: isn't in Salford anymore. Yet those same people didn't really
Speaker 1: go and watch them when they were in Salford either
Speaker 1: and you could walk to the ground because you can't
Speaker 1: really walk to the ground anymore unless you live in Earlham.
Speaker 1: The the other thing though, where Sulford really benefited in
Speaker 1: the seventies and again you know it's a shame Anthony
Speaker 1: Broxton isn't on because he would he would back this up.
Speaker 1: Salford were one of the first clubs to build a
Speaker 1: clubhouse at the end of the ground that you can
Speaker 1: watch the game from and that was the place to
Speaker 1: be apparently, so half of the Manchester United and Manchester
Speaker 1: City players used to go there. So so that pumped
Speaker 1: a load of money into the Rugby League club basically.
Speaker 1: So and I you know, I did my formative weight
Speaker 1: training and whatnot in that underneath that clubhouse in the
Speaker 1: gym because I was a Sulford Academy junior. So so
Speaker 1: you felt part of the community there. So there's that,
Speaker 1: there's that side of it too. So but on the
Speaker 1: flip side of that, because it's so close to Manchester
Speaker 1: and it always feels like Selfhid is seen as the
Speaker 1: run of the litter compared to Manchester. You've got these
Speaker 1: big behemos called Manchester City and Manchester United. And comparatively
Speaker 1: in the seventies they were bigger still and then ninety
Speaker 1: two ninety three we came into the Premier League era
Speaker 1: and Manchester United were at the forefront of that and
Speaker 1: became a really big global brand and little Load Salt
Speaker 1: had probably suffered from that too. And you may remember
Speaker 1: they changed their name to Salford City Reds to try
Speaker 1: and keep the city naming. And I think they've done
Speaker 1: so many things wrong over the years. I mean, they've
Speaker 1: had so many different logos and badges and nicknames and
Speaker 1: team names, and you know, this doesn't help. It literally
Speaker 1: doesn't help. If you were to tell if you were
Speaker 1: to ask what does a Salford Jersey look like? Would
Speaker 1: be hard pressed to answer. Yeah, yeah, you know. I
Speaker 1: think if you were to go to Wigan or Hull
Speaker 1: LEFC and ask that same question, yeah, yeah, right. I
Speaker 1: know they do variations on it. I do know that,
Speaker 1: but they are rare putting that way. So they've done
Speaker 1: so many things wrong in that regard. So you reap
Speaker 1: what you sew, you reap what you sow, and from
Speaker 1: my perspective, I think they possibly risked a bit too
Speaker 1: much a few years ago, Yes, and I think it's
Speaker 1: gone too far the other way. Sometimes the quickie you
Speaker 1: go up, the quicker you go down as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I think that's fair, and I think
Speaker 2: the previous administration who handed the club over to the
Speaker 2: current owners, these two Keywi guys in February, they would
Speaker 2: admit that they banked on things happening and probably risked
Speaker 2: a bit because they'd had a great period where they
Speaker 2: got to the Grown Final twenty nineteen and the Challenge
Speaker 2: Cup final and twenty twenty and they were a top four,
Speaker 2: top five team and I thought, well, we'll just you know,
Speaker 2: we'll risk a bit and the council will back us
Speaker 2: and we'll stay and you will get sold and we'll
Speaker 2: get a better deal on you know, revenue from match days.
Speaker 2: And none of those things happened. And effectively, the crowds
Speaker 2: of even when they were top fourteen, they're never average.
Speaker 2: You know, you need to average probably seven or eight
Speaker 2: thousand fans and make money from those fans, you know,
Speaker 2: by owning your own stadium like Wakefield do, like Leads do,
Speaker 2: et cetera. Okay I do, and they don't have that.
Speaker 2: So there's always been a case of too much money
Speaker 2: going out and not enough money coming in and it's
Speaker 2: kind of come to a head. So I think we
Speaker 2: can we'll touch on this more in future episodes when
Speaker 2: things crystallize, but there are there's definitely a lot happening.
Speaker 1: With Salford, a lot, not a lot good for Salford fans.
Speaker 1: When we stop recording. You just told me in England
Speaker 1: are playing Tongue France in Perth. Yes, and PNG and
Speaker 1: Warongong in the World Cup. That's been announced.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Martin's Sadler on of League Express has been quite critical
Speaker 1: of the venue choices and not quite critical giving severe critique.
Speaker 1: So for example, I don't want to quote him because
Speaker 1: I can't remember exactly what he said, but he suggested
Speaker 1: that England playing Tonga in Perth probably benefits England because
Speaker 1: of the English the ASP in Perth, although there are
Speaker 1: Tonguan's in Perth too, but there's more I would assume
Speaker 1: in Sydney, Brisbane, people who.
Speaker 2: Live in Perth of British. I was at the England
Speaker 2: France game in Perth and twenty seven More Cup and
Speaker 2: had a lot.
Speaker 1: Of support m H and PNNG in the Gong and
Speaker 1: again I'm pretty convinced they'll be more English people than
Speaker 1: Papa New Guineans in Woollongong.
Speaker 2: And I.
Speaker 1: Assume that this is design for England to have a
Speaker 1: good chance of getting to the semi finals.
Speaker 2: Lee, if you're the English, you're the coach of England,
Speaker 2: would you rather play P and G in Port Moresby
Speaker 2: or on Willan Conga? Well? I think the last time
Speaker 2: Great Britain or England played P and G was in
Speaker 2: twenty nineteen when P and G famously upset.
Speaker 1: No No Noll will Cook quarter final. You're right, yeah,
Speaker 1: point proven.
Speaker 2: I think on their own turf and their own conditions
Speaker 2: with their own fans, they grow another couple of legs. Look,
Speaker 2: I think the and it's really interesting considering the IRL
Speaker 2: dispute for the RFL over four hundred thousand pounds, they're
Speaker 2: allegitimate is owed to them from the last Walk sorry
Speaker 2: you're the last Wall Cup, which was in England. They've
Speaker 2: helped England out because not only do they play Tonga
Speaker 2: in Perth, they stay in Perth so they're settled. They
Speaker 2: don't have to either Townsville or Melbourne or christ Church.
Speaker 2: And they play France in Perth, they're gonna have a nice,
Speaker 2: you know time in Freemantle and then they fly over
Speaker 2: to Wollongong the paying P ANDNG, so they've got a
Speaker 2: massive leg up. It may not you know, it may
Speaker 2: not work, but they've they've definitely been helped. New Zealand
Speaker 2: have been helped because there wasn't supposed to be any
Speaker 2: games in New Zealand. We were told that Australia and
Speaker 2: Papua New Guinea were hosting this tournament. But they've just
Speaker 2: thrown a New Zealand group game over in christ Church
Speaker 2: for the keyways. And then it's interesting with P and G.
Speaker 2: They've got two pool games in P and G, but
Speaker 2: then the third one for some reason, they're going to
Speaker 2: go to Wollongong, so they get some help, but not
Speaker 2: probably the crucial help they need against England. So it
Speaker 2: is it is interesting how that's all worked out. On
Speaker 2: Lebanon have two games in Western Sydney where obviously, uh,
Speaker 2: you know you've got Arncliff and the camera and areas,
Speaker 2: there's lots of Lebanese fans, but you know your Tonga
Speaker 2: aren't playing in Auckland or Risbon. So yeah, it's it's
Speaker 2: interesting how they've they've worked that out.
Speaker 1: The on the subject of England though and linking our
Speaker 1: last Ashes Rugby League podcast with with our current one.
Speaker 1: The silence has been deafening, really, hasn't it in terms
Speaker 1: of yes, yeah, we got significantly beaten in the Ashes
Speaker 1: by an Australian third string and in most cases and panic,
Speaker 1: what panic? Basically how I had to find this.
Speaker 2: I think it's you know, it's quite funny in several
Speaker 2: ways because there was a bit of naval gazing for
Speaker 2: a week a few days. There was a bit of outrage,
Speaker 2: you know, and you had, you know, comments from people
Speaker 2: like Gary Schofield and Brian Karney and and other people.
Speaker 2: And then Nigel Would did an interview with the BBC
Speaker 2: and he said, oh, you know, we'll take a couple
Speaker 2: of months to review. And to me, it's just they're
Speaker 2: not going to do anything. Sure Wayne or staying the job,
Speaker 2: But I mean he's been in the job for five years.
Speaker 2: I mean we've gone over this. We don't want to
Speaker 2: go over it again. But he's been the job five years.
Speaker 1: He fouled Little World Cup, he foiled at the Ashes,
Speaker 1: he got his tactics wrong, he got his selections wrong.
Speaker 2: Why would you keep him in? But the argument from
Speaker 2: the British media seems to be well, we're not having
Speaker 2: a midyear test, so we're not helping him. And I
Speaker 2: think that's a bit of a cop out really, because
Speaker 2: they could have had a midia test this year, but
Speaker 2: they didn't want to play France because France isn't competitive
Speaker 2: and they've beat him by sixty or seventy. So you
Speaker 2: can't have your cake and eat it too, you know
Speaker 2: what I mean.
Speaker 1: I think either way you look at it, they don't
Speaker 1: seem to care about England full stop. Who's that the
Speaker 1: Rugby Football League. They don't seem to care that England
Speaker 1: have I would have lost the Ashes.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't necessarily say that. I would say it's difficult
Speaker 2: for people in Australia understand, but the the league clubs
Speaker 2: effectively kind of run the RFL, so they don't have
Speaker 2: the power like of Landy to just say this is
Speaker 2: what we're doing. So the clubs won't want to release
Speaker 2: their players, they won't want to change the calendar. The
Speaker 2: other element is they don't have any money, so they
Speaker 2: can't send England down to play New Zealand and Origins
Speaker 2: on because they don't have one hundred grand or eighty
Speaker 2: grand whatever it would cost to do that. So there
Speaker 2: are economics here. People forget the wider picture.
Speaker 1: Surely surely Super League club can release their players for
Speaker 1: one game, Well they don't gain you know, the fix,
Speaker 1: the fix the fixture list for whole KR to play
Speaker 1: against York. Yeah, yeah, their life easier. So you get
Speaker 1: you work out the fictional lists so that Wigan can
Speaker 1: still win. All the powerful clubs can still win even
Speaker 1: though six of their players might be playing England versus
Speaker 1: the All Stars. That's how you do it.
Speaker 2: We had we had to combineations All Stars, which was
Speaker 2: basically the Exiles for a few years, but we didn't.
Speaker 2: We didn't. They didn't have Bed and French, they didn't
Speaker 2: have gidge Field. Basically, all the top clubs didn't release
Speaker 2: their foreign players to play against England becausey didn't want
Speaker 2: them injured. So yeah, the club's were all the roost
Speaker 2: and it's just not going to happen.
Speaker 1: They're killing the game beyond its own shores. You mentioned
Speaker 1: earlier the Rugby Football League in dispute with the International
Speaker 1: Rugby League. So if this isn't sorted, are England wanted
Speaker 1: to be playing in port ballsby comeback stadium and Paris.
Speaker 2: I think they just won't be getting any money.
Speaker 1: It'll be staying in motels.
Speaker 2: It's a really interesting dispute because this is I wrote
Speaker 2: about this debt a year ago and it's in the accounts.
Speaker 2: It's in the actual World Cup accounts. You can go
Speaker 2: on company's house to see it, which is quite funny
Speaker 2: because the new r f l C is coming, so
Speaker 2: there's no debt, you know.
Speaker 1: It's like, but you're senior accounts and they've been trying
Speaker 1: to work it out for a couple of years now,
Speaker 1: but I think the kind of time for the i
Speaker 1: r L and they're obviously being backed.
Speaker 2: By the n r L, and that's the greater play
Speaker 2: between the NRL and Super League, isn't it, you know,
Speaker 2: a takeover, a partnership whatever. And this is a bit
Speaker 2: of a what would you call it, a bit of
Speaker 2: a yeah, yeah, a bit of a bit of incentive
Speaker 2: perhaps to do a deal. But they've gone public with
Speaker 2: it and Troy Grant's made some pretty strong comments, so yeah,
Speaker 2: it's it's it's quite the saga, quite the situation. An
Speaker 2: r L pers have signed Harry Newman, so they need
Speaker 2: at least another twelve their signings are coming thick and fast.
Speaker 2: I've read I've read Tiring, I read Tyrant Wish are
Speaker 2: visiting Perse in the next few ye I think I
Speaker 2: think Lindsay Smith is pretty close to getting announced. I
Speaker 2: think they're in for him. I think Jayde Campbell knocked
Speaker 2: them back. I mean, I think the Dolphins had the
Speaker 2: same problems, didn't they They went in for Monster and
Speaker 2: pong Are and they got knocked back quite a lot.
Speaker 1: So there was a there was a comparison though, and
Speaker 1: apparently they were ahead.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well the Dolphins, you would think they'd go in
Speaker 2: for Tino, considering he said that. He I mean, I
Speaker 2: know you're not a big Tino fans, remembering from the Ashes,
Speaker 2: but he said he was.
Speaker 1: You know, I am a big Tenal fan. I am
Speaker 1: a big Tenal fan. I just don't think he's the
Speaker 1: player that. I don't think Glenn Lazarus and Shane Webke
Speaker 1: have to worry about their place and the pantheon. That's
Speaker 1: all you like as much as you like not theory,
Speaker 1: but anyone, Scott, don't still you start. We're going to
Speaker 1: talk about that soon. Yeah, No, I don't. I don't
Speaker 1: mind teen or at all.
Speaker 2: He said he was going to look at his options.
Speaker 2: But yeah, they do need Look, they need they need players,
Speaker 2: they need a spine, so I wouldn't. I mean, obviously
Speaker 2: George Williams is going from Warrington to the Dolphins in
Speaker 2: twenty twenty seven.
Speaker 1: Is that confirmed? Well it is, it's happening. It's not
Speaker 1: being confirmed publicly, but I bet your life on Itly
Speaker 1: put it that way, thanks, Manly. Reuben Garrick has now left,
Speaker 1: so that's he's leaving to go to the Roosters. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and daily Cherry Evans is already there and the mestrof
Speaker 1: has left. Is that a happy club?
Speaker 2: Well? No, it's not been a big love. I mean
Speaker 2: this year I was gonna say last year. This year
Speaker 2: has been an absolute fucking nightmare for man fans. And
Speaker 2: I'm a Manly fan, so I know how much of
Speaker 2: a nightmare it has been. But look, I think Jason King, Look,
Speaker 2: he was a great player, he was a it was
Speaker 2: a prop. He was an intelligent prop, so he was rare.
Speaker 2: He had degrees and everything. He's highly regarded. He's the
Speaker 2: new CEO. I think crucially he gets on with a
Speaker 2: lot of the manly old old boys who are quite influential,
Speaker 2: you know, you chop one Stuarts and that Karen Forn's
Speaker 2: come in as an assistant, which I think is another
Speaker 2: popular move. Another ex player. Probably Turbo's got the captaincy
Speaker 2: that well, it's interesting. I mean you would have given
Speaker 2: to would have given it to maybe Jake, but you
Speaker 2: know there's doubts about his long term future. You know,
Speaker 2: head knocks and everything.
Speaker 1: So I think there's plenty of doubts about Tommy Turbo's
Speaker 1: long term.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, of course he's he needs to stay fit,
Speaker 2: doesn't he. So look the pressures on Anthony Seabold, you
Speaker 2: know Jamal Fogg and he has come in. He's got
Speaker 2: to build a house partnership with Luke Brooks Tata Cola
Speaker 2: can't pronounce his first name. I think he's been linked
Speaker 2: with a few clubs as well. So there there's some
Speaker 2: stuff to sort of. Mainly, they really need to have
Speaker 2: a much better season this year because I think if
Speaker 2: they don't start well, Seabolt will be gone.
Speaker 1: Right John, This is the bit that everyone's going to
Speaker 1: look forward to every week. We're going to spice things up.
Speaker 1: Now we've run through bits and news and ticked a
Speaker 1: few boxes but now we're going to get spicy each
Speaker 1: fortnite during the off season, and then from February will
Speaker 1: probably be weekly. We're going to have Johnny's Jab and
Speaker 1: he's laugh. Now my laugh could be something funny or
Speaker 1: something geez, that's a lot. They're having a laugh, aren't they?
Speaker 1: And this week minds they're having a laugh, aren't they.
Speaker 1: The Johnny's job can only really be you know what
Speaker 1: jab is a punch, isn't it so? Or an objection
Speaker 1: of some kind? So what's what's Johnny's Jab this week?
Speaker 1: I just I'm gonna stop. I'm going out wait wait, wait, wait, wait, sorry,
Speaker 1: we can get these sponsored Johnny's Jab sponsored by everlastank God,
Speaker 1: what's Johnny's jab this week? Sponsored by everyone?
Speaker 2: I think just I mean, I think I've always been
Speaker 2: a fan of Twitter or exit Coder, but since mass
Speaker 2: taken over, it's just it has gone to the dogs.
Speaker 2: But some of the the comments and interactions that I
Speaker 2: get a Daly basis, I don't. I don't actually respond
Speaker 2: very much anymore because it's a lot of it is
Speaker 2: a waste of time and it's just conclude fucking nonsense.
Speaker 2: But some of the way the comments that people put in.
Speaker 2: You just wonder what are they thinking hoping to achieve?
Speaker 1: I highlight one I received today from Dave Beverly, and
Speaker 1: I posted a story that Steve Masko had written about
Speaker 1: Okay are expressing a preference to play a promoted side
Speaker 1: a round one obviously before the World Club Challenge, to
Speaker 1: kind of give them an easy game before they places
Speaker 1: to b Broncos. And there's this comment from Dave Beverly
Speaker 1: which said, the RFL handed everything.
Speaker 2: To KR last season. What made you think this coming
Speaker 2: season would be any different? Question mark? It's just mean
Speaker 2: for those who don't know k I want to trouble.
Speaker 1: So they won the league, they fit, they won to
Speaker 1: my premiership, they won the Grand Fall and they won
Speaker 1: the chance, which they I don't think they know, They've
Speaker 1: never done in the one hundred whatever year history.
Speaker 2: It's not an easy thing to do. So I just
Speaker 2: I mean, Dave maybe a whole C fan, I would
Speaker 2: imagine he is, But how are you supposed to end that?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 2: What have they been? And to be honest, a lot
Speaker 2: of people and that's the other thing.
Speaker 1: We live in an outrage era, don't we leave everyone's
Speaker 1: outrage and angry about everything? As a sense of humor,
Speaker 1: and you know everyone is a snowflake. But what's the
Speaker 1: problem with them playing York before they play the Broncos
Speaker 1: and then they fight a vega something? To help them
Speaker 1: out if you can help them out, whether it's Wholekay,
Speaker 1: whether it's Wigan, whether it's in Helen's, if you can
Speaker 1: help them out in the fiction, they've got to play
Speaker 1: York sometime, you know, what's what's the issue?
Speaker 2: I don't. I don't really see an issue because it
Speaker 2: is the best of Super League against the best of
Speaker 2: the NRL. It's not just one club. So yeah, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't get the outrage.
Speaker 1: So your job is about crazy people online? Look, I've yeah,
Speaker 1: we often share on our personal socials, don't we the
Speaker 1: bits and bobs that we get. I I have had
Speaker 1: a barage in the last few weeks so and it's
Speaker 1: been based on my critiques of England in the Ashes
Speaker 1: in particular. Things really started. I get people in England
Speaker 1: telling me that I've got something against England. And I
Speaker 1: had one fellow the other day say, oh, it's not
Speaker 1: like you to be to put a negative take on something,
Speaker 1: and it was that I said, isn't turbo or risk
Speaker 1: as captain because of his injury rate.
Speaker 2: That's a fair point.
Speaker 1: That's a fair point, right negative, And it's like this
Speaker 1: first of all, so these are these are the these
Speaker 1: are the innocent ones, right, these are the these are
Speaker 1: the gentle ones that you know, people say, oh, you're
Speaker 1: being negative. In England, this is particularly prevalent. Do you
Speaker 1: think that if you don't say warm and fuzzy things
Speaker 1: being negative? There's a reason a lot of the things
Speaker 1: we say aren't particularly warm and fuzzy, and that's because
Speaker 1: most of the game in England is absolutely shit right,
Speaker 1: it's running an average way, it can be a lot better.
Speaker 1: The Super League is allowed to be economically dwindled so
Speaker 1: that we have reserve grade players playing in Australia who
Speaker 1: then move over to become Super League players. And that's
Speaker 1: part of Lee's laugh. Actually I'll talk about that. And
Speaker 1: we haven't England, haven't beaten Australia or Great Britain, haven't
Speaker 1: beaten Australia in a series or a World Cup for
Speaker 1: fifty five years. And you want us to be warm
Speaker 1: and fuzzy all the time. No, these things need to change.
Speaker 1: So just because somebody says they need to change. That
Speaker 1: does not mean they are being negative. It means they
Speaker 1: are highlighting what needs to change. And just because Turbo
Speaker 1: has been injured and I mentioned it doesn't mean I'm
Speaker 1: being negative. I am just critiquing. And so that's the
Speaker 1: first thing. And they're the nice people that the other
Speaker 1: ones are the abusive ones. And since I did the
Speaker 1: English stuff, and then I decided I was going to
Speaker 1: critique Nathan Cleary. Now, first of all, people assume I
Speaker 1: don't like Nathan Cleary. Why the hell would I not
Speaker 1: like Nathan Cleary has not done anything wrong to me.
Speaker 1: I worked at Penrith, I don't I don't have anything
Speaker 1: against Penrith. I don't support any n RL team. I
Speaker 1: just look at the things the way I see them.
Speaker 1: Nathan Cleary has been playing poorly and red football. So
Speaker 1: I decided to do something about it and do a
Speaker 1: video outlining that I don't mind anybody arguing with me
Speaker 1: in debate. I don't mind that, but the personal stuff
Speaker 1: that goes beyond the pale, and we're in that world
Speaker 1: now and I'm unfortunately in my screenshot of not save
Speaker 1: the name of this person, Well, this is one personal
Speaker 1: message I got somebody dm me, and I was so
Speaker 1: tempted to call him on his Facebook page and give
Speaker 1: him a mouthful. And I've got a lung speus like that.
Speaker 1: He said, cock Womble, you're a nobody, So glad we
Speaker 1: humiliated you. This is a personal message to me, right.
Speaker 1: I love putting dickheads who've never done anything in their place,
Speaker 1: people like you, people who think know everything about a
Speaker 1: particular discipline, people who have never done anything. Who the
Speaker 1: fuck are you?
Speaker 2: What did you ever do?
Speaker 1: Who did you play for or coach in the NRL?
Speaker 1: You know fuck all obviously. Why don't you go and
Speaker 1: drink a few more pints of tepid rats piss and
Speaker 1: go back to your tower block on the estate and
Speaker 1: try and scrape together enough money for another six pints.
Speaker 1: Some fucking northern who thinks he knows something about rugby league,
Speaker 1: you're just annoying. You're talking yourself up like England are something,
Speaker 1: but they're not. You invented the game, ah, rugby league
Speaker 1: and cricket, but your shit at both. Just stop embarrassing yourself.
Speaker 1: That hit a nerve with me because I grew up
Speaker 1: in poverty bit and I've battled my way out of it.
Speaker 1: And he decided to take a punt on that, and
Speaker 1: he'd never say that to my face. And you know
Speaker 1: the other thing, John, I've put posts out on my
Speaker 1: Facebook inviting people to come and debate me on the podcast.
Speaker 1: Guess how many people have taken me up on that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The part of the thing in modern world is
Speaker 2: people will say anything online, but they would never actually,
Speaker 2: you know, say that to your face, or they post
Speaker 2: things without having any thought of the consequences or what
Speaker 2: their accidents. And yeah, it's just a general degradation of society, sadly,
Speaker 2: and yeah, that's why I never used to but I
Speaker 2: will block people now who are abusive. They just waste time.
Speaker 1: It's just people who like to interact with people who exactly.
Speaker 2: I enjoyed debating. I enjoyed and I've gotten many many
Speaker 2: things wrong. And I'll hold my hand up.
Speaker 1: I've had conversations with people and you know, I've gotten
Speaker 1: stories wrong, or I've you know, said or done things
Speaker 1: that I regret because we're all human, we all make mistakes.
Speaker 1: But there's no reason to go to petty levels of
Speaker 1: abuse over you know, things that their opinions. And you know,
Speaker 1: people like to invent agendas that that people don't have.
Speaker 1: But it's bad stand of affairs.
Speaker 2: You've just got to yeah, try and rise above it.
Speaker 2: Basically m.
Speaker 1: Lee's laugh brought to you by you could fill this
Speaker 1: spot now Les Lee's laugh.
Speaker 2: I know what Lee's laugh is. The English cricket team. Yah, yeah, Yeah,
Speaker 2: it's been a tough seven weeks for you, hasn't the
Speaker 2: funny thing about them saying more than this? And yes
Speaker 2: I'm proud English. We lived in Australia nearly twenty years.
Speaker 2: I've paid more tax in Australia than they have in England.
Speaker 2: Put it that way anyway, the half point where you
Speaker 2: you have lived in Australia longer than you lived in
Speaker 2: the UK far away Lee's laugh.
Speaker 1: I'm now going to I'm going to combine this with
Speaker 1: media watch right, because that's another section. But media hasn't
Speaker 1: been that lively lately. So on their website they announced
Speaker 1: Warrington Wolves that they were delighted to confirm the double
Speaker 1: signing of James Bentley and Josh Smith. Bentley is a
Speaker 1: backrower who's played one hundred and eighty one times for
Speaker 1: Say Helens I Think and Elms and Leeds won international
Speaker 1: caps for Ireland lifted the Grand Final trophy and two
Speaker 1: League Leaders shields and then it went Josh Smith. A
Speaker 1: tenacious competitor. The twenty four year old has voted the
Speaker 1: Brisbane Tigers Player of the Year in a season where
Speaker 1: he made the most run meters across the entire Host
Speaker 1: Plus Club Host Plus Cup, including topping the charts for
Speaker 1: post contact meters, and he's played eighty one games of
Speaker 1: reserve grade in Australia. This is a club John that
Speaker 1: in the past has signed the like Sir Adrian Morley,
Speaker 1: Joey Jones, Andrew g Alfie Langer Love rugby League in
Speaker 1: twenty On the twenty third of June twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: a guy called Josh McAllister. I don't if you know him.
Speaker 1: He wrote the Warrington Woollves History of overseas signings, Lee's
Speaker 1: questions over their recruitment strategy and he talked about Josh
Speaker 1: McGuire lasting only two months there, Greg Engliss arriving in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty one after only playing and played only three
Speaker 1: games after coming out of retirement to go to Warrington,
Speaker 1: and he also mentioned Billy mcgoolis who made seven appearance,
Speaker 1: Alarie Latu who made three and Anthony Gelling who made
Speaker 1: a whopping thirteen appearances. So that's that's Lee's laugh this
Speaker 1: week is well number one what's happening with super League
Speaker 1: recruitment in general? But number two of Warrington got a
Speaker 1: media a recruitment problem.
Speaker 2: John, Yeah, I mean I did a piece with Carl
Speaker 2: Fitzpatrick during the ashes the Cyar Warrington. I did a
Speaker 2: longs about basically they had a terrible year. I think
Speaker 2: they finished eighth, lost the Challenge Cup final, missed the semifinals.
Speaker 2: Sam Burgess was a whisker of been sacked like that's
Speaker 2: the and maybe he should have been sacked because he
Speaker 2: you know, I think he was too pally with the
Speaker 2: with his players. He's obviously a young coach and then
Speaker 2: when you know some of them, the discipline wasn't there.
Speaker 2: You know, he couldn't get them back because he was
Speaker 2: too pally.
Speaker 1: You know, you can't go from being bouncing on a
Speaker 1: table in Las Vegas after they've just been beaten by
Speaker 1: fifty was the best choice of actor.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was that was another bad look look at
Speaker 2: easy young coach and I'm sure I'll learned for that.
Speaker 2: And he had a great year twenty twenty four. But yeah,
Speaker 2: in terms of Warrington, you could argue they've had a
Speaker 2: recruitment problem problem for quite a while. But I will
Speaker 2: give the club credit and the fact that they've made
Speaker 2: a focus on their academy. And this is always particularly
Speaker 2: by Wigan fan because Warrington end up spugning a lot
Speaker 2: of Wigan players that they're buying club and not a
Speaker 2: development club. You know, while Wigan are a development club,
Speaker 2: Saint Helens are development club, Leeds club. But Warrington I
Speaker 2: have put a lot of money into their academy and
Speaker 2: they are burying one of the young kids. You and
Speaker 2: Irwin who's a seventeen year old half back who the
Speaker 2: Bulldogs and four other clubs were after him. Joey Johnson
Speaker 2: has publicly said about what a talent he is. There's
Speaker 2: lots of other good young players who are going to
Speaker 2: get opportunities. Are Kay Tyler Ray the full back? So
Speaker 2: they are they've changed their model now. The Billy Smith one.
Speaker 2: I must admit when I when I saw that press release,
Speaker 2: I said who. And I don't know every player who
Speaker 2: plays in the New so Well's Cup and the Q
Speaker 2: Cup all in the NRL, but I know quite a
Speaker 2: few of them. I've never heard of him. No, now
Speaker 2: I was in kids.
Speaker 1: CAZ sorry ket Kaze.
Speaker 2: Yeah, look he may you turned out to be a
Speaker 2: good signing, you know, but you would have thought at
Speaker 2: the age of twenty four, he's been scouted by every
Speaker 2: NRL club. He's probably maybe spent some time in a system.
Speaker 2: So I think there's a few ways to look at it.
Speaker 2: I think people have to realize that the NRL salary
Speaker 2: caps two and a half to three times bigger than
Speaker 2: the Super League one and the money just isn't there
Speaker 2: for name signings anymore. So there's going to be there
Speaker 2: already is a lot more of these, you know, reserve
Speaker 2: grade players at York and at other clubs Wake for
Speaker 2: for example, and look some of them turned out, you know,
Speaker 2: to be great buyers. You could argue Bevan French and
Speaker 2: joy Field who'd played had played some NRL but not
Speaker 2: a lot, and they've been arguably two of the four
Speaker 2: or five best players in Super League for the past
Speaker 2: three or four years. So there are players who can
Speaker 2: take an opportunity, who are you so Well's Cup or
Speaker 2: Queensland Cup reguls who can take an opportunity super League
Speaker 2: and develop and become stars, So that's real. But yeah,
Speaker 2: Warrington have a history of recruits haven't worked out. That's
Speaker 2: you can't. We can't dispute that because all the players
Speaker 2: you name, then there's several others. Look, Matt Dufty started
Speaker 2: off well, had a great twenty twenty four, he had
Speaker 2: a terrible year this year. I think he's on his
Speaker 2: way out of the club. And anyone who's followed Matt
Speaker 2: Dufty's career at the Dragons knows great attacking player, but
Speaker 2: not great defensively and a bit rocks and that's what happened.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think I think some of the recruitments,
Speaker 2: some of the scouting at some Super League clubs leaves
Speaker 2: a lot to be desired.
Speaker 1: I also think there was well that this has been
Speaker 1: expedited because of the Super League decision to increase the
Speaker 1: overseas quota, which again contributes to my theory that the
Speaker 1: powers that be don't care about the English team.
Speaker 2: Well, it definitely has been is us about it by that?
Speaker 2: And part of that is because isn't enough local talent
Speaker 2: who's arguably good enough to fill those spots, and we
Speaker 2: have this weird system with the Championship and League One
Speaker 2: where players are actually paid quite well to be part time.
Speaker 2: So he might be in the Championship. You might be
Speaker 2: on twenty grand, which is you know, twenty pounds which
Speaker 2: say strained dollars, and you could go and play full
Speaker 2: time and be on you know, forty grand, but you're
Speaker 2: actually working as well as getting paid to play rugby league.
Speaker 2: So he might make sixty grand, So why are you
Speaker 2: going to throw that away? A lot of them don't,
Speaker 2: so there needs to be a shift in the market
Speaker 2: and the structure.
Speaker 1: What's the player called who left Salford? Really I wrote
Speaker 1: about him in my book. He's a classic case of it, right,
Speaker 1: He's gone through his career yo yoing between Super League
Speaker 1: and Championship and the scenario. You know, he probably I
Speaker 1: don't know Ryan Breally, but I do. He probably thought
Speaker 1: he was one of those players who thought, I need
Speaker 1: to be a Super League regardless, I'll take a financial hit,
Speaker 1: a shoon or.
Speaker 2: He was an interesting one because he was a star
Speaker 2: at the league when they're in the championship and then
Speaker 2: he got a big money moved to Huddersfield and he
Speaker 2: was a half back and they wanted to make him
Speaker 2: to a fullback and that basically failed and then Toronto
Speaker 2: came in and I can't remember if he joined when
Speaker 2: they're in League One, the third division or in the Championship,
Speaker 2: but he got a big money move there. It was
Speaker 2: great help them go up, and then basically Brian McDermott
Speaker 2: wanted him out. I'm trying to remember where he went next.
Speaker 2: It might have been Salford or it might have been
Speaker 2: somewhere else, but he went to He basically became a regular,
Speaker 2: a Super League regular Salford and did quite well. Now
Speaker 2: he's dropped back down into Oldham. He's also got a
Speaker 2: career as a football agent. He represents women's soccer players,
Speaker 2: some of the England internationals and some of the top
Speaker 2: female soft players. So he's doing quite well off the field.
Speaker 2: He's a pretty smart guy. But yeah, his opportunities to
Speaker 2: play parts of rugby league against still get paid reasonably
Speaker 2: well and the jump up of Super League isn't that far,
Speaker 2: So would you do it financially? You've got to think,
Speaker 2: you know about your career can be over in one injury.
Speaker 2: You got to think about your future.
Speaker 1: And I guess my point about writing really is if
Speaker 1: he was in Australia, he'd have found his level and
Speaker 1: been more consistent with it, and I dare say he
Speaker 1: probably would have achieved more in Australia because the system
Speaker 1: would have just been more able to get him to
Speaker 1: where he needed to be, whereas he would have yo
Speaker 1: yeled between Super League and Championship like he went he
Speaker 1: went down to Lee, down a division to Lee when
Speaker 1: they were in the lower division and ended up being
Speaker 1: their top tri scorer ever or something like that. Oh yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I feel sorry for players like him in
Speaker 1: the English system, and I guess it's the fact that
Speaker 1: now the competition is going to be flooded with Queensland
Speaker 1: Cup and New South Wales Cup players basically moving forward,
Speaker 1: and like you said, if they're not, if they're not
Speaker 1: getting signed early, they'll be tied up in New South
Speaker 1: Wales and Queensland Cup systems. So these clubs Bradford York
Speaker 1: until lose are going to have to go even lower
Speaker 1: in the Australian system. I'm waiting for the day when
Speaker 1: an a grader in park football gets called up to
Speaker 1: play Super League mate or something, because I think it's
Speaker 1: only it's only going to head that way.
Speaker 2: Well, the mad the mad thing is is that in
Speaker 2: the championship in League one. So in the second and
Speaker 2: thirties there's no quota, so all of them could could
Speaker 2: field seventeen Australian who we parking in Guineas. And you
Speaker 2: see it in League one. You know, clubs like Rochdown,
Speaker 2: you know, had all these Aussies and what's the point
Speaker 2: of that doing well? Why is that? How is that
Speaker 2: helping the English game? It isn't because these clubs are
Speaker 2: getting a thousand people to to you know, a thousand
Speaker 2: fans paying, but they might these clubs might be playing
Speaker 2: you know, ten to fifteen grand for an overseas player.
Speaker 2: It's just a mad system that it's just propped up
Speaker 2: by some rich individuals but makes no sense. It makes
Speaker 2: no business sense and it doesn't actually it actually hurts
Speaker 2: the English game because it's taking away from the pathway system.
Speaker 2: So yeah, there needs to be there needs to be
Speaker 2: a realization at some point. I think we're getting there,
Speaker 2: but it certainly hasn't. Certainly hasn't happened. I actually I'm
Speaker 2: just trying to find it, but I can't seem to
Speaker 2: find it. But I made a list of the import
Speaker 2: players in Super League fifteen years ago, and if you
Speaker 2: look at a quality that was there compared to now,
Speaker 2: it's staggering. You know, you had Danny Bideiris, you had
Speaker 2: Tommy lula Wai, you know, the Pooler Tours, Francis Mealy.
Speaker 2: You know, you had basically you had a list of
Speaker 2: players who'd either played a shitload of NRL or international
Speaker 2: for Australia or New Zealand or Origin. And some of
Speaker 2: them might have been older or whatever, but they were
Speaker 2: you know, the talent was quite good. And obviously that
Speaker 2: benefits the younger English players because if you're if you're
Speaker 2: training and playing with the Danny Badias or against the
Speaker 2: Danny Bidierris, you know, one of the greatest hookers of
Speaker 2: the last couple of decades, you learn a lot. But
Speaker 2: if you're playing against some twenty two year old from
Speaker 2: the Queensland Cup, how much learning. So the training quality
Speaker 2: and that that's partly is because Super League has either
Speaker 2: gone down or flatlined and the NRL has just gone
Speaker 2: up and up and up, and the money is all
Speaker 2: in Australia. So that's that's one of the reasons why
Speaker 2: you know that some of those top players aren't coming
Speaker 2: to super League anymore because the opportunity. The financial incentive is.
Speaker 1: Just not there, and that comes back to administrators, it does.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean that's they've not been able to grow
Speaker 2: the sport. They're not being able to grow their revenues.
Speaker 2: See in the history of poor administrators who getgurgitated. And
Speaker 2: we've got another one back in charge now who was
Speaker 2: in charge of that period as well.
Speaker 1: The alarming thing for me was on the Ashes podcast
Speaker 1: you mentioned this in sort of in passing. You said
Speaker 1: that clubs aren't great with the media anymore. They don't
Speaker 1: actively encourage basically them to the NROL players are better trained,
Speaker 1: if you like. And I was a Super League media manager.
Speaker 1: They almost the early stages of Super League, if you like,
Speaker 1: and there was every club was told they needed a
Speaker 1: media manager, community development manager, etc. Etc. And there was
Speaker 1: a big push for clubs to really cozy up to
Speaker 1: the media. And in a quarter of a century that's
Speaker 1: just completely changed and they probably need it now more
Speaker 1: than ever, particularly with the types of media we have
Speaker 1: out there now, and they're just doing the exact opposite.
Speaker 1: It is absolutely scary. And the other thing back to
Speaker 1: the signings, I remember about four years ago when mate
Speaker 1: Chris texting me and said, what do you know about
Speaker 1: this player cade Cust who signed for Wigan. Well, first
Speaker 1: of all, if a bloke in England in this era
Speaker 1: of everybody being able to watch everything around the world,
Speaker 1: hadn't heard of a player that tells you everything you
Speaker 1: need to know. Secondly, I had to go okay, cost
Speaker 1: and we're going to sign him m and I thought
Speaker 1: this is trouble.
Speaker 2: Well, look he at least, you know, to his credit,
Speaker 2: he came through I think it was the mainly system
Speaker 2: and he played some role for mainly. I'd seen him
Speaker 2: play a bit for mainly. You know he's a fringe player.
Speaker 2: But yeah, he didn't work out at Wigan, did he?
Speaker 2: And he's kind of hollow ce. And you wouldn't say
Speaker 2: if you if you say the six to seven input
Speaker 2: players in any super club, you probably should be one
Speaker 2: of the first names on the team sheet. You know,
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be, you know, missing every second week. You
Speaker 2: should be a guaranteed starter, because that's the reason you're
Speaker 2: an import. But I wouldn't say he's in every seventeen
Speaker 2: of Holoft season. That sort of sort of shows the
Speaker 2: reality of the situation.
Speaker 1: Anyway, we don't want to get too negative because people
Speaker 1: might say we're being negative. John will end the podcast
Speaker 1: with my analysis segment each week so that you know,
Speaker 1: if people are listening to it and they think, I
Speaker 1: don't know leave saying because he's talking about pictures at
Speaker 1: least then they can turn the podcast off and go
Speaker 1: to the YouTube, the Rugby League Coach YouTube channel and
Speaker 1: watch the clip. So I've done an analysis clip John
Speaker 1: on different types of tackles, so shoulder contact tackles, hit
Speaker 1: and drive versus the catch and wrestle. So it basically
Speaker 1: England did catch and catch and wrestle and Australia did
Speaker 1: a bit more shoulder contact and I've gone through that
Speaker 1: in this analysis video, but also use some other other
Speaker 1: teams as example. So before we go to that, John
Speaker 1: just remind people where they can get you.
Speaker 2: You can get me on x at Johnny d Davidson
Speaker 2: and get me on Facebook at John Davidson Journalist and
Speaker 2: on Patreon at Ugby League hub dot com long Reads and.
Speaker 1: We'll catch up in a fortnight to do episode two
Speaker 1: of Super League three sixty.
Speaker 2: Sounds good.
Speaker 1: What I one to take you through today are two
Speaker 1: very common types of tackle technique which are in evidence
Speaker 1: very much in the NRL and the Super League every
Speaker 1: single week. It's just that casual fans or viewers may
Speaker 1: not notice these subtle differences. So allow me to take
Speaker 1: you through using footage from the recent England and Australia
Speaker 1: Test matches and some other footage. I don't want you
Speaker 1: to get wrapped up in the fact that this is
Speaker 1: England versus Australia. I just want you to recognize that
Speaker 1: the team in the white England tackled with what we
Speaker 1: would call a catch style of tackle technique, and Australia,
Speaker 1: particularly Harry Grant, didn't. Now, this is the very first
Speaker 1: collision of the second Test, England coming out very aggressively.
Speaker 1: I'm going to go back a little bit earlier. This
Speaker 1: is coming from the kickoff, England coming out aggressively. Now,
Speaker 1: if you look at that collision, all of the players,
Speaker 1: including the player that spun off, is very upright. They're
Speaker 1: going in with their chest okay, and they then try
Speaker 1: and put the player down and control the rook as
Speaker 1: a result on the floor. I'm not necessarily going to
Speaker 1: go through the wrestling elements today, However, I do want
Speaker 1: you to notice the direction of where the players with
Speaker 1: the ball go after the initial collision. Now I have
Speaker 1: paused the tape here at what I call the contact line,
Speaker 1: or what we call the contact line. Pattick Arrogan has
Speaker 1: taken the ball in and he has been met by
Speaker 1: the English defense. Now it's very clear from this freeze
Speaker 1: frame that England are going in to catch chest first,
Speaker 1: open arms, not the top of the shoulder. And Pat
Speaker 1: Carrigan's initial contact there just went over the contact line
Speaker 1: a bit. Now England actually bring Pat Carrigan towards their
Speaker 1: own try line in their wrestling or post contact wrestling. Okay,
Speaker 1: and this is my point. So you can actually lose
Speaker 1: some momentum in your defensive line if you tackle like
Speaker 1: this with the chess, but it also shows you how
Speaker 1: good these players are at control. So I want you
Speaker 1: to know tis how often England used the chess contact
Speaker 1: in all these clips. Again, before I take you to
Speaker 1: what Australia and in particular Harry Grant did so chess
Speaker 1: contact towards the trial line of England. On the next collision,
Speaker 1: you'll see Harry Grant's collision straight in with the top
Speaker 1: of the shoulder. Now this could be something he gets
Speaker 1: taught at Melbourne, but they're very subtle differences and in fact,
Speaker 1: I think you'll agree with me. Australia are a lot
Speaker 1: more compact in what they do there. Their bodies are
Speaker 1: tighter to Herbie farm with there as they are controlling
Speaker 1: him down to the ground. Again, Angus Crichton, that was
Speaker 1: a shoulder contact. If you asked me, he wasn't necessarily
Speaker 1: the top of the shoulder, but the back was bent more.
Speaker 1: Let's go back and watch those again, Harry Grant's shoulder
Speaker 1: contact and I'm going to tell you why the shoulder
Speaker 1: contact is important very soon. Angus Crichton's shoulder contact. You
Speaker 1: may also notice that player's studs are still in the
Speaker 1: ground when they tackle. This is a big, big indicator
Speaker 1: of power and I'll tell you why soon, Harry Grant again,
Speaker 1: older studs in the ground from both players. This is
Speaker 1: a historical video. This is Poland versus Venoa tu in
Speaker 1: the twenty eighteen Emerging Nations World Championships. The player on
Speaker 1: the left has lost his feet. Now, the reason feet
Speaker 1: are so important is that you get a lot of
Speaker 1: power from your legs. So if you imagine doing a
Speaker 1: squat in the gym, for example, or lifting a box,
Speaker 1: you are encouraged to bend your legs and using the
Speaker 1: power of your legs. So the tackler on the left
Speaker 1: has lost his feet. The tackler on the right with
Speaker 1: the red boots still has his feet and he's using
Speaker 1: them to drive the opposition player backwards. Again, this has
Speaker 1: slowed down a little bit. Look at the players using
Speaker 1: their studs and it's coming from shoulder contact. We've all
Speaker 1: seen the big hit videos and again the reason I've
Speaker 1: put these into this week's analysis is every big hit
Speaker 1: here has top of the shoulder contact or very close to.
Speaker 1: When we look at who I think is Ronaldo Mullatalo here,
Speaker 1: one criticism is his legs are straight. If his feet
Speaker 1: were even closer, he would get even more power to
Speaker 1: be able to bend his legs. In a moment, you're
Speaker 1: going to see another big hit from New Zealand, Let's
Speaker 1: look how close the feet were there. That was a
Speaker 1: lot better, and the power is clearly coming from the
Speaker 1: legs here. Of course, momentum and speed of runner also
Speaker 1: have an impact, but there you can see the studs
Speaker 1: are in the ground, the legs are bent, the back
Speaker 1: is lower, the shoulder goes in to Tyson Frazell. I
Speaker 1: think that is on the attacking side number eleven for Tonga.
Speaker 1: Legs bent, shoulder in and the contact line is definitely
Speaker 1: one there. Here's one from the last World Cup. The
Speaker 1: contact line absolutely won by the number ten. They're in white.
Speaker 1: You'll quite often see this in all walks of the game,
Speaker 1: somebody coming out of the line to put on a shot. Again,
Speaker 1: not perfect tackle technique, but the shoulder is in and
Speaker 1: there is power coming from the legs. And if I
Speaker 1: take you back to the original clips that we saw England,
Speaker 1: and this is so common in so many teams. There's
Speaker 1: lots of NRL teams that do this, and there's lots
Speaker 1: of Super League teams that do this. Actually aren't getting
Speaker 1: power from their legs and they are bringing the attacking
Speaker 1: player towards their own goal line. I honestly think that
Speaker 1: the shoulder contact is underused in both NRL and Super League,
Speaker 1: particularly in Super League, and the benefit of it is
Speaker 1: that you can stop the momentum of the attacker. I
Speaker 1: really don't understand the methodology of bringing somebody closer to
Speaker 1: your own goal line. I really don't understand that and
Speaker 1: really struggle with that methodology. However, most clubs are very
Speaker 1: adept at wrestling for root control. I think it's a
Speaker 1: lot easier to do if you hit with some force.
Speaker 1: Keep an eye out for this next time you see
Speaker 1: a big game in twenty twenty six. Also, I think
Speaker 1: don't underestimate how tackle technique can influence the outcome of
Speaker 1: a match. Okay, it's something that I, as a coach,
Speaker 1: have always really had very high on my list. Shoulder
Speaker 1: contact contact line, winning the contact line, and then winning
Speaker 1: the subsequent rook afterwards.