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Every 24 00:01:25.359 --> 00:01:29.040 week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking and 25 00:01:29.159 --> 00:01:33.319 infamous killers in true crime history True Murder with your 26 00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:36.599 host journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 27 00:01:46.519 --> 00:01:50.719 Good Evening. In nineteen seventy one, there began in Rochester, 28 00:01:50.879 --> 00:01:54.599 New York, a series of hideous murders, cases that offer 29 00:01:54.680 --> 00:01:59.519 the starkest of contrasts between good and evil. Perfectly innocent victims, 30 00:02:00.079 --> 00:02:04.439 perfectly evil predators. The three victims were little girls, each 31 00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:08.080 named with the same first and last initial. Each, the 32 00:02:08.159 --> 00:02:11.080 legend said, had been dumped in a town that also 33 00:02:11.159 --> 00:02:14.680 began with that letter. The victims had all been last 34 00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:17.479 seen in an urban setting, and their lifeless bodies were 35 00:02:17.479 --> 00:02:22.319 found raped and carelessly dumped along a rural roadside, strangled 36 00:02:22.319 --> 00:02:26.400 by ligature. Local girls with a litter of names were 37 00:02:26.479 --> 00:02:30.000 unhigh alert and told to be vigilant. The little ones 38 00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:33.120 didn't quite get it, but they sensed it, something in 39 00:02:33.159 --> 00:02:36.039 their mother's tighter grip on their little hand, or the 40 00:02:36.120 --> 00:02:38.840 v way mum never relaxed. When they were out of doors. 41 00:02:39.840 --> 00:02:42.520 The older ones looked at maps and guessed where their 42 00:02:42.520 --> 00:02:46.360 own lifeless bodies would be discovered in a ditch. No 43 00:02:46.439 --> 00:02:49.840 one wondered why the initials were important, what it all meant. 44 00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:54.479 They understood one thing, it was terrifying. The book they 45 00:02:54.479 --> 00:02:58.879 were featuring this evening is Nightmare in Rochester, the Double 46 00:02:58.919 --> 00:03:04.120 Initial Murders, with my special guest, journalist and author Michael Benson. Welcome, 47 00:03:04.280 --> 00:03:06.319 Welcome back to the program, and thank you very much 48 00:03:06.360 --> 00:03:08.800 for this interview Michael Benson. 49 00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:10.000 Thanks Dan, thanks for having me. 50 00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:15.319 Thank you very much once again. Always interesting and the 51 00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:21.400 inaugural the opening debut of our program True Murder on Spreaker. 52 00:03:21.520 --> 00:03:24.159 So thank you very much for this Nightmare in Rochester. 53 00:03:24.400 --> 00:03:26.479 Want congratulations on the new platform. 54 00:03:27.319 --> 00:03:31.879 Thank you very much. Let's talk about as you write, 55 00:03:31.879 --> 00:03:36.120 your fascination with evil stems from a June twenty fifth, 56 00:03:36.280 --> 00:03:42.000 nineteen sixty six disappearance. Tell us about this and why 57 00:03:42.039 --> 00:03:46.439 this is important to your entire true crime and writing career. 58 00:03:47.240 --> 00:03:50.960 Sure, when I was nine years old, my babysitter, Georgia 59 00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:53.919 and Formacola and her friend Kathy Bernhardt from down the 60 00:03:54.000 --> 00:03:58.520 road went swimming in a swimming hole behind my house 61 00:03:58.840 --> 00:04:02.159 in a rural section of Monroe County, New York town 62 00:04:02.199 --> 00:04:06.319 of Chilight, and they didn't come back. They were last 63 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:08.759 scene on one side of my house and their bodies 64 00:04:08.759 --> 00:04:11.280 were found a month later on the other side. And 65 00:04:11.319 --> 00:04:15.879 they'd been horribly dismembered and perhaps cannibalized. It was a 66 00:04:15.919 --> 00:04:19.480 real Jack the Ripper Jack the Ripper crime scene, and 67 00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:22.759 it was just terrifying to the community. I grew up 68 00:04:22.759 --> 00:04:27.680 with a fascination for psycho killers. Because of that, I 69 00:04:27.800 --> 00:04:31.000 tried to, in an amateur way try to figure out 70 00:04:31.040 --> 00:04:33.120 who did it as a kid, and as a teenager 71 00:04:33.160 --> 00:04:35.519 and as a young adult. And I's no coincidence. I 72 00:04:35.560 --> 00:04:39.680 became a true crime writer and in twenty eleven I 73 00:04:39.759 --> 00:04:45.720 teamed up with private investigator Don Tubman and Kathy Bernhardt's mom, 74 00:04:46.000 --> 00:04:52.519 Alice Bernhardt, and we started a fresh investigation, developed a 75 00:04:52.519 --> 00:04:58.120 new suspect, and sad to say, Alice passed away a 76 00:04:58.120 --> 00:05:03.319 few weeks back age ninety two, and hopefully we gave 77 00:05:03.360 --> 00:05:05.279 her a little bit of closure with the book that 78 00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.040 came out, The Devil a Genoese Junction. Now, that book 79 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:12.199 came out two days after my own mom passed away, 80 00:05:12.279 --> 00:05:14.680 So it was with a heavy heart that I started 81 00:05:14.720 --> 00:05:18.839 doing publicity material publicity of appearances for it. And the 82 00:05:18.839 --> 00:05:21.680 first one I did was at the Scottsville Free Library 83 00:05:23.480 --> 00:05:25.160 in the town where I had gone to high school, 84 00:05:25.519 --> 00:05:27.319 and a lot of old friends came out and the 85 00:05:27.360 --> 00:05:30.480 place was packed, and after I gave my a little presentation, 86 00:05:30.959 --> 00:05:32.399 somebody said, well, what are you going to do for 87 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:35.560 an encore? And I said, well, I think I am 88 00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:39.199 going to take on the double initial murders. And I 89 00:05:39.240 --> 00:05:40.360 just sort of set it off the top of my 90 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:42.279 head because I'd been thinking about it a lot, but 91 00:05:42.879 --> 00:05:45.279 it seemed like a big chunk at that moment, still 92 00:05:45.279 --> 00:05:49.279 grieving over my bluff my mom, but the reaction was 93 00:05:49.519 --> 00:05:53.399 just ecstatic. It made everybody very very happy. So I 94 00:05:53.480 --> 00:05:58.319 knew I had to do it. And about five years 95 00:05:58.360 --> 00:06:02.680 after my girls and child I were killed, the series 96 00:06:02.720 --> 00:06:05.959 of new murders started in the city of Rochester, which 97 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:11.199 caused such a hysteria in the community that in some 98 00:06:11.240 --> 00:06:15.959 senses the Genesee Junction murders were a little bit forgotten. 99 00:06:16.079 --> 00:06:21.600 But there's no describing how the murders. These three little 100 00:06:21.639 --> 00:06:32.759 girls terrified everyone, largely because of the first victim, and 101 00:06:33.040 --> 00:06:36.279 they were all ten and eleven years old, and Carmen 102 00:06:36.360 --> 00:06:40.839 Cologne was the first victim. She disappeared on Tuesday afternoon, 103 00:06:41.519 --> 00:06:47.480 November sixteenth, nineteen seventy one, autumn day school day. Temperature 104 00:06:47.519 --> 00:06:51.240 was in the mid fifties. Carmen's mother was only twenty 105 00:06:51.240 --> 00:06:53.639 four years old. She'd been fourteen when she had Carmen, 106 00:06:54.399 --> 00:06:57.759 and in recent years, Carmen had been living with her grandfather, 107 00:06:57.879 --> 00:07:01.240 Felix and his wife Candy, on a side street in 108 00:07:01.279 --> 00:07:04.959 the Bullshead section of Rochester, which was once a thriving 109 00:07:05.040 --> 00:07:10.480 shopping district, but by nineteen seventy one had deteriorated and 110 00:07:10.560 --> 00:07:15.319 become populated with transiencects, cons', drug addicts, and mental cases. 111 00:07:17.879 --> 00:07:21.560 So Little Carmen didn't really speak much English. She was 112 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:25.120 mentally handicapped. She understood more than a recording of her 113 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:28.800 teachers she was learning, but she still didn't know very 114 00:07:28.839 --> 00:07:31.720 much English. She'd lived in Puerto Rico for much of 115 00:07:31.759 --> 00:07:34.720 her life, and she had a limited ability to explain 116 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:38.319 her feelings or her experiences, but she was improving by 117 00:07:38.319 --> 00:07:42.720 all accounts. She's tiny girl, four feet tall, sixty five pounds. 118 00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:46.240 Her playmates were her cousins and sometimes neighbor kids, but 119 00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:49.879 they spoke only Spanish, and on that afternoon, about four 120 00:07:49.920 --> 00:07:53.399 point thirty in the afternoon, Carmen's mom sent Carmen around 121 00:07:53.439 --> 00:07:56.160 the corner to a drug store on Rochester's main street, 122 00:07:56.199 --> 00:07:59.720 West to have a prescription filled for her baby's sister, 123 00:08:00.079 --> 00:08:04.120 who had an earache. How Carmen left, turned around the 124 00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:09.399 corner under the busy thoroughfare and never returned. Now, on 125 00:08:09.480 --> 00:08:12.560 previous occasions when Carmen had been asked to run errand 126 00:08:13.639 --> 00:08:15.920 her grandfather had stood on the front porch so there 127 00:08:15.959 --> 00:08:18.600 was a candy Penny candy store up the block, and 128 00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:20.199 he could stand on the porch and watch her go 129 00:08:20.319 --> 00:08:22.360 and watch her come back. And when she went to 130 00:08:22.399 --> 00:08:23.759 the drug store, and she'd done this a couple of 131 00:08:23.759 --> 00:08:27.680 times before, he would walk behind her and she come 132 00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:29.720 out of the drug store, and she run past him, 133 00:08:29.759 --> 00:08:32.039 and then he would tell her back home again. And 134 00:08:32.519 --> 00:08:35.759 by those trips she was she learned a careful and 135 00:08:35.799 --> 00:08:38.799 small sense of independence. But on this day she forgot 136 00:08:38.840 --> 00:08:41.399 to tell her grandfather she was going. She grabbed the 137 00:08:41.399 --> 00:08:44.360 prescription and headed out the door and found herself alone 138 00:08:44.399 --> 00:08:47.879 on the streets. The guy on duty and the drug 139 00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:52.879 store took the prescription, said, this is a Medicaid prescription. 140 00:08:52.919 --> 00:08:54.480 It's going to take about a half hour to fill 141 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:59.200 out some forms. Come back. Then. Almost impossible to tell 142 00:08:59.240 --> 00:09:02.039 if Carmen under at any of that, But she left 143 00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:09.600 and was never seen again other than one horrible moment 144 00:09:09.600 --> 00:09:14.679 about an hour later. So anyway, when Carmen didn't return 145 00:09:14.720 --> 00:09:18.159 home and uncle began searching the neighborhood, the police weren't 146 00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:20.679 called until seven fifty, so she'd been gone for about 147 00:09:20.679 --> 00:09:24.440 three hours before the police were informed. But during that time, 148 00:09:24.679 --> 00:09:29.360 about an hour after her abduction, hours before the police 149 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:33.799 had been notified, Carmen apparently wriggled free from her abductor 150 00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:37.840 or abductors and jumped out of the car. She was 151 00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:40.960 naked from the waist down, holding her pants in one hand, 152 00:09:41.360 --> 00:09:44.039 and she ran hysterically down the shoulder of the Western 153 00:09:44.039 --> 00:09:48.480 Expressway now known as Interstate four ninety. She ran toward 154 00:09:48.600 --> 00:09:52.919 heavy oncoming rush hour traffic, screaming for help, and was 155 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:57.200 seen by dozens of motorists as they approached Exit three 156 00:09:57.559 --> 00:10:01.399 heading towards Churchville. One of those drivers saw a car 157 00:10:01.600 --> 00:10:04.559 behind her, backing up toward her. Some saw a parked 158 00:10:04.600 --> 00:10:08.159 car and an adult running after her. Scores of cars 159 00:10:08.200 --> 00:10:11.240 drove by, observing the challenge of distress, but no one stopped, 160 00:10:11.799 --> 00:10:15.840 and Carmen was presumably caught and dragged back. Now, every 161 00:10:15.840 --> 00:10:18.559 witness seemed to see something different. Most agreed it was 162 00:10:18.559 --> 00:10:22.639 a luxury car, Cadillac Ford Ltd, Lincoln Continent or something 163 00:10:22.679 --> 00:10:25.840 like that. And you have to remember people don't have 164 00:10:25.879 --> 00:10:28.960 cell phones and they're on an expressway going sixty five 165 00:10:29.000 --> 00:10:31.399 miles an hour in a hurry to get home. And 166 00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:34.159 everybody thought the same thing if they recognized that there 167 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:39.039 was a crisis at all, and some didn't. They thought, well, 168 00:10:39.200 --> 00:10:42.159 somebody behind me will be in better situation to take 169 00:10:42.200 --> 00:10:44.080 care of it. And they had to wait until they 170 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:47.240 got home before they could call the police, and some did. 171 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:48.840 Some got home and said, you know, I saw a 172 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:50.840 really creepy thing on the side of the road. I 173 00:10:50.879 --> 00:10:53.039 think maybe you should look into it. But by that time, 174 00:10:53.120 --> 00:10:56.279 of course, it was too late. Psychologists were kind to 175 00:10:56.320 --> 00:10:59.240 the motorists. They said, you know, the site was too 176 00:10:59.320 --> 00:11:02.679 bizarre to be I said swiftly. And you know, I've 177 00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:04.679 done a lot of thinking about this over the years, 178 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:07.360 and it occurs to me that if someone had stopped, 179 00:11:07.399 --> 00:11:09.799 it probably would have prevented the murder. But there's at 180 00:11:09.879 --> 00:11:11.799 least a fifty to fifty that they would have helped 181 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:16.440 the adult catch the child. All the adult would have 182 00:11:16.480 --> 00:11:18.639 to say is, you know, that's my niece. She's you know, 183 00:11:18.879 --> 00:11:22.519 autistic or whatever he wanted to say, and the adult 184 00:11:22.519 --> 00:11:25.919 would immediately stop thinking that this is a crime and 185 00:11:26.159 --> 00:11:30.279 help the adult catch the hysterical little girl who has 186 00:11:30.320 --> 00:11:34.720 taken her pants off. Anyway, that's that's the last time 187 00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:36.519 we see we see Carmen alive. 188 00:11:39.799 --> 00:11:43.200 Now you talk about this, there is there is a 189 00:11:43.240 --> 00:11:48.200 car description, or there are several car descriptions. Tell us 190 00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:51.000 about what type of car that at least police are 191 00:11:51.679 --> 00:11:56.840 alerting for, and also how and talk about Carmen's uncle 192 00:11:56.960 --> 00:12:02.200 Miguel and how he comes to the BSS. 193 00:12:02.360 --> 00:12:06.159 Right well, as I said that they were pretty witnesses 194 00:12:06.159 --> 00:12:08.679 were pretty much in agreement that it was a luxury car. 195 00:12:09.360 --> 00:12:11.320 I was a big boat of a car. And on 196 00:12:11.360 --> 00:12:13.639 the cover of our book we have a nice Cadillac 197 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:15.879 which we've put in black and white, so you can't 198 00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:18.039 tell that it's bright red. I don't think the car 199 00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:25.000 was bright red. And one fellow that we are most 200 00:12:25.039 --> 00:12:27.200 familiar with don spoke to him in person. I spoke 201 00:12:27.240 --> 00:12:28.799 to his widow. He pass away a few years ago. 202 00:12:29.240 --> 00:12:32.720 There was a fellow named Nick Zook, and he remained 203 00:12:32.720 --> 00:12:35.679 plagued by his thoughts of what if he was one 204 00:12:35.679 --> 00:12:37.159 of the guys that drove, but he thought the car 205 00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:41.279 was a Lincoln Continental, saw the little girl and saw 206 00:12:41.440 --> 00:12:44.440 an adult get out of the passenger side of the car, 207 00:12:44.600 --> 00:12:48.240 thought it was a woman and had a head towards 208 00:12:48.279 --> 00:12:50.879 the tail of the car in pursuit, So that would 209 00:12:50.879 --> 00:12:53.480 indicate two people in the car, at least one of 210 00:12:53.480 --> 00:12:58.759 them a woman. This is very different from all of 211 00:12:58.799 --> 00:13:01.320 the descriptions of cars that we get for the other 212 00:13:01.360 --> 00:13:08.840 two victims. Now, Carmen has found after school on Thursday, 213 00:13:09.320 --> 00:13:12.360 two days after her disappearance, in a desolate section of 214 00:13:12.399 --> 00:13:16.279 the town of Raiga. Two teenage boys out joy riding 215 00:13:16.320 --> 00:13:20.679 on a eighty cc Suzuki motorcycle and they found Carmen's 216 00:13:20.720 --> 00:13:22.919 naked and an exposed body in a deep ditch that 217 00:13:23.039 --> 00:13:26.679 ran along the side of the road. Her body had 218 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.679 been clearly sexually abused and was covered with fingernail scratches, 219 00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:35.279 maybe something might expect from a woman attacker. The head 220 00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:37.879 was against a large rock, and the boys got the 221 00:13:37.879 --> 00:13:40.000 impression of the body that had placed at that spot 222 00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:43.840 rather than rolled down the incline. Although they weren't experts, 223 00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:46.320 the sheriff said he believed the girl had been slain 224 00:13:46.399 --> 00:13:50.480 elsewhere and then transported by car to the dumb site. 225 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:53.759 Police later found Carmen's pants near the spot where she'd 226 00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:57.799 been seen running, but her underwear remained forever missing. Now 227 00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:04.519 to get to Uncle Miguel, as I had said, Carmen's 228 00:14:04.559 --> 00:14:08.440 mom had Carmen when she was fourteen years old, and 229 00:14:08.480 --> 00:14:16.960 the father biological father was a fellow named Gustiano Cologne 230 00:14:16.960 --> 00:14:22.080 who was thirty two years old, and his much younger 231 00:14:22.120 --> 00:14:31.480 brother subsequently sub subsequently became Carmen's mother's boyfriend, and he drove. 232 00:14:32.159 --> 00:14:37.879 I knew to him Cadillac, and we recently I had 233 00:14:38.159 --> 00:14:44.559 two beautiful ladies. Deb Spurling and Christine Green interviewed Carmen's 234 00:14:44.600 --> 00:14:46.840 mom and Carmen's half sister, and we found out that 235 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:50.919 Carmen came to be because of a swift and romance 236 00:14:51.039 --> 00:14:57.600 free twist with a much older man. Now, not long 237 00:14:57.799 --> 00:15:04.759 after Carmon's death, Uncle Miguel splits. He takes off from 238 00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:07.440 Rochester goes back to Puerto Rico. So he says, where 239 00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:09.360 are you going? He says, I did something wrong. I've 240 00:15:09.399 --> 00:15:14.320 got to get away, and this alerts the police to 241 00:15:14.440 --> 00:15:17.639 him as a suspect, and plus his car is found 242 00:15:17.679 --> 00:15:21.080 to have Carmen's doll inside it, and the trunk of 243 00:15:21.080 --> 00:15:23.159 the car has been washed out with a detergent that 244 00:15:23.279 --> 00:15:28.200 wasn't used by the car dealership that sold him the car. So, 245 00:15:28.440 --> 00:15:30.960 I mean a lot of police figure this is it. 246 00:15:31.000 --> 00:15:33.559 We've got him. So they go to Puerto Rico in 247 00:15:33.639 --> 00:15:36.120 March of nineteen seventy two, four months after the murder, 248 00:15:36.159 --> 00:15:40.159 they find him. They return him to Monroe County so 249 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:47.399 he can be interrogated, and Sheriff Skinner himself sheriff for 250 00:15:47.480 --> 00:15:52.000 decades and decades old Sheriff big Man, who lean on 251 00:15:52.080 --> 00:15:55.679 guys to get him to confess. But Miguel hangs tough. 252 00:15:55.759 --> 00:15:57.639 He says, I didn't have anything to do with Carmen's death. 253 00:16:01.360 --> 00:16:04.840 What we found out from the family was that he 254 00:16:05.039 --> 00:16:08.960 did say that he had done something wrong. But the 255 00:16:09.039 --> 00:16:11.200 thing he had done wrong, he thought was he was 256 00:16:11.240 --> 00:16:15.440 living with Carmen's mom who was on food stamps, and somebody, 257 00:16:15.480 --> 00:16:20.039 possibly his older brother and Carmen's biological father, told him 258 00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:23.639 that you better get away from here. They're going to 259 00:16:23.720 --> 00:16:25.960 arrest you for fraud if they catch you and living 260 00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:30.200 with a woman on welfare. So this, on purpose or 261 00:16:30.200 --> 00:16:33.440 inadvertently makes Miguel look like a suspect more so than 262 00:16:33.440 --> 00:16:39.600 he would otherwise, And and that's pretty much the way 263 00:16:39.639 --> 00:16:45.240 it stayed. That there was no concrete evidence linking Miguel 264 00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:50.159 to the crime. And the women we've talked to, the 265 00:16:50.200 --> 00:16:53.679 Colone women we've talked to, are insistent he's not the 266 00:16:53.720 --> 00:16:59.240 guy that he was. You know, he loved Carmen, was 267 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:04.920 there a stepfather of sorts, and it wasn't him, which 268 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:08.680 isn't to say it isn't somehow involved with the dysfunction 269 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:13.119 in the Cologne family. But they defend him very strongly. 270 00:17:15.200 --> 00:17:18.119 You talk about also that they demanded a lide detective 271 00:17:18.119 --> 00:17:22.200 test and he also passed. He did just as you say, 272 00:17:22.319 --> 00:17:26.079 just not enough evidence to ever take it to court 273 00:17:26.119 --> 00:17:26.400 at all. 274 00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:30.839 But well, that's that's right, although you know, at least 275 00:17:30.880 --> 00:17:33.160 one investigator wanted to throw it to the grand jury 276 00:17:33.160 --> 00:17:36.720 and see what happened, but that never happened. And then 277 00:17:36.759 --> 00:17:41.359 there's there's there's a year and four months of quiet, 278 00:17:41.680 --> 00:17:48.480 and the Carmen Cologne case fades away from the front pages. 279 00:17:49.160 --> 00:17:51.720 But then it starts up again in April second, nineteen 280 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.960 seventy three, with Wanda Walkawitz. 281 00:17:57.000 --> 00:17:59.640 Tell us a little bit about Wanda Lee Welkowitz and 282 00:18:00.319 --> 00:18:04.400 any similarities to Cormen Cologne. 283 00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:09.640 Well, yeah, uh, you'll find that all of the all 284 00:18:09.680 --> 00:18:15.440 of the victims came from lower income families. They all 285 00:18:15.480 --> 00:18:20.960 came from broken homes. Moms were all accepting uh, you know, assistance, 286 00:18:21.640 --> 00:18:24.680 and they all went to uh they were all Catholics, 287 00:18:26.039 --> 00:18:27.799 and they were all ten or eleven years old. They 288 00:18:27.799 --> 00:18:32.920 were all walking alone on the street when they disappeared. 289 00:18:33.519 --> 00:18:35.920 But other than that, I mean, and in the broad 290 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:38.240 stroke sense, there seemed to be a lot of similarities. 291 00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:41.440 But the closely look, the fewer similarities there were. 292 00:18:41.440 --> 00:18:41.559 There. 293 00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:44.759 There wasn't anybody who knew all three for example, and 294 00:18:44.839 --> 00:18:49.200 boy have people looked. But anyway, so Wanda, Wanda was 295 00:18:49.240 --> 00:18:55.599 a redheaded fifth grader Rochester's School number eight. There was 296 00:18:55.640 --> 00:19:00.519 a rainy Monday, late afternoon. She's eleven, and she is 297 00:19:00.599 --> 00:19:03.119 running an errand for her mother, Joyce, who's a widower 298 00:19:03.759 --> 00:19:07.880 and a little bit of a lay about, who has 299 00:19:08.400 --> 00:19:12.119 Wanda doing a lot of the chores for her. Wanda's 300 00:19:12.119 --> 00:19:15.680 had to change schools because of a truancy problem, and 301 00:19:15.720 --> 00:19:17.839 the reason she's not going to schools because she's needed 302 00:19:17.880 --> 00:19:20.839 at home to take care of things because mom can't. 303 00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:28.880 So since Joyce Walkwit's the mom had been widowed, she'd 304 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:33.240 been through a series of men, and they lived about 305 00:19:33.240 --> 00:19:36.880 a half block from Conky Avenue on Rochester's East Side, 306 00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:41.079 which is another section of Rochester that had seen better days. 307 00:19:41.519 --> 00:19:44.920 Wanda was four foot seven inches tall, she weighed seventy 308 00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:48.799 seven pounds, bright red hair like you could spot her 309 00:19:48.799 --> 00:19:52.279 a mile away, and her mom gave her a shopping 310 00:19:52.319 --> 00:19:54.440 list and said, this is what we need for dinner. 311 00:19:54.839 --> 00:19:56.920 And Wanda left for the store as she had done 312 00:19:57.039 --> 00:20:00.920 many many times before. So she walked three blocks to 313 00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:03.880 the corner store on Knaky Avenue, s wearing a blue 314 00:20:03.880 --> 00:20:07.119 and white dress with white socks and sneakers her red 315 00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:10.119 and green checked coat. She bought the groceries and was 316 00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:12.960 returning home with a big, full shopping bag in her 317 00:20:13.079 --> 00:20:17.400 arms when she disappeared. Now several witnesses saw Wanda leave 318 00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:20.720 the deli with her bag. At one point, she stopped 319 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:24.200 at the school eight fence and she used a fence 320 00:20:24.279 --> 00:20:26.680 to help brace the bag and get a better grip 321 00:20:26.720 --> 00:20:29.880 on it, and then continued walking towards home. She had 322 00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:33.759 friends who saw her looked away, looked back and she 323 00:20:34.039 --> 00:20:41.759 was gone. Now. Unlike Carmen, there was an indication that 324 00:20:41.880 --> 00:20:46.359 Wanda had been targeted earlier by a creep on the street. 325 00:20:48.920 --> 00:20:53.240 On the Saturday night at ten pm, only two days 326 00:20:53.279 --> 00:20:58.240 before her abduction, Wanda and her friend Linda are followed 327 00:20:58.240 --> 00:21:01.039 by a stranger as the girls are walking of the 328 00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:07.519 Conky Avenue area after dark. The stalking incident was considered 329 00:21:07.680 --> 00:21:11.400 so serious that Linda's mom filed a report with police, 330 00:21:11.799 --> 00:21:14.079 who came but found no sign of the guy. The 331 00:21:14.079 --> 00:21:17.880 guy apparently chased them all the way to Wanda's house 332 00:21:18.160 --> 00:21:20.480 and they ran up to her upstairs apartment, and the 333 00:21:20.519 --> 00:21:22.640 guy came into the building and was standing at the 334 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:25.000 bottom of the stairs when he finally gave up and left, 335 00:21:25.880 --> 00:21:30.279 So it's considered a serious incident. The girls reported that 336 00:21:30.319 --> 00:21:33.200 they hadn't gotten a good look at his face because 337 00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:35.559 he hid behind a bush when they spotted him, and 338 00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:38.720 the only detail that they noticed was they had a 339 00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:43.039 buckle on his shoe. Now we found Linda Diamond. I 340 00:21:43.079 --> 00:21:46.440 found Linda, and of course, now she's a grown woman, 341 00:21:47.279 --> 00:21:49.839 and I suggested to her that she'd seen the guy, 342 00:21:50.759 --> 00:21:54.119 and she said that, you know, she suspected that was true. 343 00:21:54.559 --> 00:21:57.400 She knows that after that incident, after that Saturday night, 344 00:21:57.839 --> 00:22:01.160 Mom said, that's it, You're not going outside alone anymore. 345 00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:05.079 But unfortunately Wanda was never told that, and two days 346 00:22:05.160 --> 00:22:11.319 later she was snatched off the street. Now, unlike Michelle 347 00:22:11.400 --> 00:22:15.039 and Carmen, Wanda is found very quickly. By the time 348 00:22:16.160 --> 00:22:18.880 the newspapers already with the story about her being missing, 349 00:22:19.160 --> 00:22:22.279 they have to change everything because her body has been 350 00:22:22.319 --> 00:22:26.839 found ten fifteen in the morning. The morning after her disappearance, 351 00:22:27.480 --> 00:22:30.680 on an access road in the town of Webster, a 352 00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:33.920 state trooper found Wanda's body, faced down, thrown over a 353 00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:38.519 railing and allowed to roll down an embankment. Now the 354 00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:42.200 obvious similarities between Carmen and Wanda. Both girls were alone 355 00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:47.359 on the street running errands. Oddly, they both had involved 356 00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:51.200 walks that involved one right hand turn two streets. Both 357 00:22:51.200 --> 00:22:54.759 had successfully reached their destination had left when they were snatched. 358 00:22:55.599 --> 00:22:59.960 But there are differences. Wanda was bruised but not scratched. 359 00:23:00.880 --> 00:23:04.480 Carmen had been found exposed, whereas Wanda had been re 360 00:23:04.839 --> 00:23:09.359 dressed right. One had been strangled face to face, the 361 00:23:09.400 --> 00:23:13.559 other had been strangled from behind. That's a major psychological difference. 362 00:23:13.880 --> 00:23:19.400 That's a difference in modus operandi right there, that's very stark. 363 00:23:21.200 --> 00:23:24.920 What about content the stomach? But what about contents in 364 00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:27.359 the stomach and what does that indicate the police? 365 00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:32.400 Yes, well, Wanda had been fed by her killer. The 366 00:23:32.440 --> 00:23:36.319 Monroe County Medical Examiner discovered custard in the girl's stomach, 367 00:23:37.200 --> 00:23:39.880 but it was a mystery where she'd gotten it. Now, 368 00:23:39.960 --> 00:23:42.279 the assumption was that she must have been given the 369 00:23:42.319 --> 00:23:45.400 food by her killer. Her mother insisted that couldn't have 370 00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:47.880 been the case because Wanda had a nervous stomach and 371 00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:49.480 she wouldn't have been able to keep it down under 372 00:23:49.480 --> 00:23:54.119 the stress of the attack. But who knows, says somewhere 373 00:23:54.119 --> 00:23:56.720 between when she left for that store when she was 374 00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:00.440 found dead, she had eaten custard, and the bet theory 375 00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:04.319 is that the killer gave it to her. Another difference 376 00:24:04.680 --> 00:24:08.519 is that no one saw the killer from then saw 377 00:24:08.559 --> 00:24:11.599 the killer's car from then on, mistook it for a 378 00:24:11.720 --> 00:24:15.440 luxury car. 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