WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>You make time to move, to breathe, to check your stamina,

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<v Speaker 1>your sleep, your steps. But when did you last look

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<v Speaker 2>Oh hey, it's the sunglasses that you sat on, but

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<v Speaker 2>you still wear crooked ali wort with a really big

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<v Speaker 2>episode on a little creature. Let's get into it with

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<v Speaker 2>a warning that this episode is an instant classic. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>warning you you're going to listen to it more than

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<v Speaker 2>once because it's so good and it's perfect prepare. So

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<v Speaker 2>what is the tartar grade? You're about to find out

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<v Speaker 2>more about these water bearer moss piglet tiny creatures with

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<v Speaker 2>extreme survival abilities via the loving eyes of an expert

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<v Speaker 2>Tartar gridologist who also identifies as a biophilist. Simply loves nature,

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<v Speaker 2>loves critters, and is up to their eyes in wonder

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<v Speaker 2>Their bio literally says to me, every life form, no

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<v Speaker 2>matter how gruesome, think tapeworms, flukes, and the corpse flower

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<v Speaker 2>of borneo is beautiful and awe inspiring. Oh, you're going

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<v Speaker 2>to love them. So they got their bachelors and zoology

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<v Speaker 2>in Southern Illinois, a master's in zoology at the University

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<v Speaker 2>of the West Indies, and a biology PhD at UC

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<v Speaker 2>Santa Cruz. They are currently a professor at Warren Wilson College.

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<v Speaker 2>They have discovered many new species of tartar grade and

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<v Speaker 2>is one of the foremost tartar gradologists on Earth. Just

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<v Speaker 2>ps tartar gradeology. It's very much a field. It's an

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<v Speaker 2>actual term, and you should know that tartar grade means

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<v Speaker 2>slow stepper, just a tardi grader. They're tiny, they are rotund,

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<v Speaker 2>and they saunter in no hurry. We're going to get

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<v Speaker 2>to them swiftly, but first a head's up to back

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<v Speaker 2>to schoolers. We launched a new show a few months

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<v Speaker 2>back on its own feed. Smologies used to be in

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<v Speaker 2>this feed, but we gave it its own home, so

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<v Speaker 2>you can look fir Asmologies wherever you get podcasts, or

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<v Speaker 2>check the link in the show notes. Subscribe to that

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<v Speaker 2>one too, in case you have littles and you need

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<v Speaker 2>kid friendly versions of Ologies Classics that are classroom and

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<v Speaker 2>all ages safe. Also, thank you to patrons at patreon

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<v Speaker 2>dot com slash Ologies for submitting your questions and supporting

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<v Speaker 2>the show for as little as a dollar a month.

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<v Speaker 2>Ologies merch is available at ologiesmarch dot com. We have

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<v Speaker 2>backpacks and college sweaters and toads and hats and such. Also,

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<v Speaker 2>thank you for leaving reviews for zero dollars. Thank you

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<v Speaker 2>to everyone who does. I read them all, including this

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<v Speaker 2>just left one from Ivacnaird, who wrote, you make it

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<v Speaker 2>interesting regardless of subject, it is all interesting and we

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<v Speaker 2>just didn't know until you showed us. Oh. I have

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<v Speaker 2>a lot of gratitude for that. And thank you for

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<v Speaker 2>all the reviews anyone who's left one. They held this

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<v Speaker 2>show so much. And here we go into the episode Saunter,

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<v Speaker 2>into a microscopic wonderland of weird business about mystery maps

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<v Speaker 2>that last longer than you can imagine, how a loaf

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<v Speaker 2>of a critter can deal with a vacuum of space,

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<v Speaker 2>how to find and marvel at Tartar grades, the experiments

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<v Speaker 2>involving their survival Moon landings, cryptobiosis, biodiversity, kitten claws, knife mouths,

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<v Speaker 2>their sexual prowess aka the tntra grade, life splicing their

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<v Speaker 2>DNA into ours, spiders on Mars, flimflam, and so much more.

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<v Speaker 2>With a Creature of Wonder, Professor Zoologist and your new

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<v Speaker 2>friend and confirmed tartar gradologist, doctor Paul Bartles.

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<v Speaker 3>I always am ready to talk about tartar grains. Paul Bartles,

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<v Speaker 3>he doctor tartigrade.

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<v Speaker 2>Do a lot of people in your life casually, like

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<v Speaker 2>your neighbors and stuff. Do they know what you study?

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<v Speaker 2>Or are you just like, oh, Paul, the cool guy

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<v Speaker 2>that lives next door.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, a lot of them do. I'm the tartar grade guy.

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<v Speaker 2>When do you remember seeing your first tartar grade? I've

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<v Speaker 2>never seen one in person, But do you remember when

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<v Speaker 2>you saw yours?

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<v Speaker 3>That's a good question. I mean I saw pictures of

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<v Speaker 3>them in my zoology class in college, but I never

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<v Speaker 3>saw a live one. I don't think I ever saw

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<v Speaker 3>a live one. I don't think I was a successful

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<v Speaker 3>finding them until I actually worked with somebody who helped

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<v Speaker 3>me learn how to collect them and study them, and

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<v Speaker 3>so I would have been around the year two thousand

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<v Speaker 3>when I started studying them myself. You're kind of elusive

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<v Speaker 3>if you don't know the tricks.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Oh, that's a huge question on my mind is

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<v Speaker 2>how do you find them? I guess first I should

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<v Speaker 2>ask you to describe two people. What is a tartar grade.

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<v Speaker 2>Some people will know this word and get thrilled, and

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<v Speaker 2>some people will be like, do I skip this episode?

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<v Speaker 2>What even is it?

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<v Speaker 3>Going to love this?

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<v Speaker 2>What is it?

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<v Speaker 3>Tarti grades are microscopic animals. They're complex, multicelled, but microscopic animals,

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<v Speaker 3>and they are in their own pilum. The kingdom an

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<v Speaker 3>Amalia is divided into about thirty or so phila. They're

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<v Speaker 3>their own phylum about four teen hundred species, and their

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<v Speaker 3>characteristics are that they have five body segments, four pairs

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<v Speaker 3>of little stubby legs, and they have a cuticle that

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<v Speaker 3>they have to mold when they grow, like nematodes and

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<v Speaker 3>arthropods because they're related to them. And they have these

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<v Speaker 3>paired stylets that are like little hypodermic needles that they

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<v Speaker 3>can poke out their mouths. And so that's the general

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<v Speaker 3>characteristic of tarte grades. And the thing that they're famous

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<v Speaker 3>for is being champion animal survivors. That's probably what people

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<v Speaker 3>know about them, if they know about tartar grades.

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<v Speaker 2>Fourteen hundred species. If you would have asked me, I

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<v Speaker 2>would have thought, oh, you know how, there's maybe eight

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<v Speaker 2>species of bear. There's like a lower number than you

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<v Speaker 2>would think.

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<v Speaker 3>And probably why you think that is because on the internet,

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<v Speaker 3>the meme for tartar grades is this one image that's everywhere,

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<v Speaker 3>and it is one species, and so you kind of think, oh, well,

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<v Speaker 3>it's they all look like that.

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<v Speaker 2>So you may have seen an electron microscopy portrait of

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<v Speaker 2>what appears to be an inflated leaping bag with small

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<v Speaker 2>baguettes for legs and a barbed wire vape pen for

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<v Speaker 2>a mouth, or perhaps you saw an animation based on

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<v Speaker 2>that photo and it looked like a flying chod with

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<v Speaker 2>eight stumpy appendages and a garbage disposal for a face,

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<v Speaker 2>And perhaps you feel grateful that they are microscopic, but.

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<v Speaker 3>In fact that meme is not a great meme. All

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<v Speaker 3>we can talk about that if you want, Oh, yeah, brother.

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<v Speaker 2>Why is that not a representative of the tartar grad family.

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<v Speaker 2>And also I wonder if that one particular tartar grade

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<v Speaker 2>that's scanning electron microscope image. If that Tartar Grade knows

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<v Speaker 2>how famous it is, like that is the most famous

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<v Speaker 2>microscopic animal on the planet. What is that image? It

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<v Speaker 2>looks like it has a hell mouth. It looks like

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<v Speaker 2>it has the poato sarlac as of mouth. And one

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<v Speaker 2>patron described it as like a floating baked potato with legs.

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<v Speaker 2>They look like floppy baked potatoes, quoth patron Megan Walker.

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<v Speaker 2>But it is that image. Where did it come from?

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<v Speaker 3>That is a great question, and I'm glad you asked it,

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<v Speaker 3>because that image is everywhere on the internet. It drives

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<v Speaker 3>me nuts because it's so wrong. In fact, I'll show you.

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<v Speaker 3>I've got a little toy here. Oh it's a little

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<v Speaker 3>night light. Everybody needs one of these.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh it's lovely Tarti grade nightlight.

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<v Speaker 3>And another little Tartar Grade squeeze toy for anxiety. We

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<v Speaker 3>all need those, yes, in this day and age. But

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<v Speaker 3>they all look exactly like that, right, This is what

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<v Speaker 3>they all look like.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, modeled after that famous internet imagery that.

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<v Speaker 3>Is so wrong. It is so messed up. It is

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<v Speaker 3>so messed up. My kids would say it's fed up.

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<v Speaker 3>I wouldn't say that on the air, but you know

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<v Speaker 3>they weren't raised, right. But yeah, So this image, the

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<v Speaker 3>one I'm thinking of, is a animated image. They took

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<v Speaker 3>that scanny electron microscope image and they made an animated

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<v Speaker 3>image out of it with computer generated graphic, and it

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<v Speaker 3>shows this happy little tartar grade swimming along in the water.

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<v Speaker 3>It's kind of bright pink, and it's got this mouth

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<v Speaker 3>that's poking out and then alternately sucking back in, forming

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<v Speaker 3>like this giant anus head thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah, is

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<v Speaker 3>that what you're talking about? Yep, yep, ye, yep, that's

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<v Speaker 3>that's what these that's what these little toys showed, the

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<v Speaker 3>anus hit.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, yep.

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<v Speaker 3>It's disgusting.

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<v Speaker 2>Is that not what they look like?

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<v Speaker 3>It's disgusting. No, that's not what they look like.

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<v Speaker 2>Really, wow, what are their faces usually doing?

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<v Speaker 3>So that image, let me count the ways it's messed up. Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>First of all, they're not pink. They're not pink.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay.

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<v Speaker 3>I think somebody thought most piglet, which is one of

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<v Speaker 3>their common names, and thought, well, if it's pig lit,

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<v Speaker 3>I guess it's pink. But it's not that kind of

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<v Speaker 3>tartar Grade is usually white or clearish. Sometimes some darker pigments,

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<v Speaker 3>but never pink. They don't swim, oh, they're been thick.

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<v Speaker 3>Tartar grades crawl on the bottom, and so if you

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<v Speaker 3>drop the tartar grade in the water, it would flail

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<v Speaker 3>its legs helplessly and fall to the bottom. And the

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<v Speaker 3>claws are all wrong on those images.

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<v Speaker 2>So the popular animation depicts them with kitten claws at

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<v Speaker 2>the tips of each michelin man leg And.

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<v Speaker 3>This is the way you can tell if it's an

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<v Speaker 3>anatomically correct image. Okay, So on tartar grades, they have

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<v Speaker 3>four pairs of legs. The first three pairs of legs

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<v Speaker 3>are all oriented the same. The fourth pair of legs

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<v Speaker 3>comes out the very rear of the body and is

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<v Speaker 3>oddly turned around at one hundred and eighty degrees relative

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<v Speaker 3>to the first three. Those computer generated images are never

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<v Speaker 3>right about that. That's the way to check. Yeah, And

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<v Speaker 3>the worst thing is that mouth thing. So they do

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<v Speaker 3>not live. Animals don't. Their heads don't cave in to

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<v Speaker 3>form an anus head. They just don't do that. They

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<v Speaker 3>have this cuticle that's kind of continuous around their head

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<v Speaker 3>and body, and so that's relatively rigid. There's a lot

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<v Speaker 3>of move going on in the mouth, but that's internal.

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<v Speaker 3>You don't see it in the head.

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<v Speaker 2>How did we get it so wrong?

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<v Speaker 3>I think what happened is that those scanning electron microscope

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<v Speaker 3>images that you are talking about, they're so beautiful, and

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<v Speaker 3>they're also everywhere on the internet. Some of those show

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<v Speaker 3>the head normally, some of them the heads contracted. That's

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<v Speaker 3>an artifact of preparation for scanning electron microscopy, and so

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<v Speaker 3>I think the animators saw both of those images and

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<v Speaker 3>just thought, well, okay, if it's moving around, it must

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<v Speaker 3>alternate between those two. That's my conjecture of how that

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<v Speaker 3>got to be like that. I'm sorry, that's just wrong.

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<v Speaker 3>But the head of Tarte Grays is nicely, smoothly round

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<v Speaker 3>or maybe tapered forward. It never caves in like that.

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<v Speaker 3>The internal mouthparts are beautiful. They have a mouth, They

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<v Speaker 3>have a bugle tube that's kind of like ar esophagus.

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<v Speaker 3>It ends in a punching bag like pharynx, and then

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<v Speaker 3>that goes into a stomach and intestine. Pharynx has muscles

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<v Speaker 3>attached and it's going like this all the time, going

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<v Speaker 3>in and out to form suction like the bulb of

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<v Speaker 3>an eye dropper. The silts are poking in and out

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<v Speaker 3>all the time. All that stuff's going on in sort

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<v Speaker 3>of beautifully complex motion, but it's all inside the animal.

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<v Speaker 4>You don't see that unreal.

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<v Speaker 3>So another reason I hate that image is because people

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<v Speaker 3>that look at it and say, oh, well, there must

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<v Speaker 3>just be this one kind. Yes, but there's several different

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<v Speaker 3>kinds of tartar grades. They come in several flavors, and

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<v Speaker 3>there's a lot of diversity among the individual species. And

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<v Speaker 3>so that one image is the image that almost always

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<v Speaker 3>gets displayed. But it's not. I don't even think it's

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<v Speaker 3>the coolest one. The best ones. The best ones in

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<v Speaker 3>like pop culture would be if you ask me, I,

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<v Speaker 3>do have you seen ant Man in WASP?

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<v Speaker 2>No, I haven't seen it. There's tartar grades in it.

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<v Speaker 3>Oh, there's tartar grades in both the ant Man movies.

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<v Speaker 3>And in the first one it's a cameo appearance. In

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<v Speaker 3>the second one they have a really major role. They

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<v Speaker 3>almost eat Michael Douglas. It's very scary. In case they

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<v Speaker 3>don't make it.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't say that.

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<v Speaker 5>I can't lose you too.

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<v Speaker 2>I love you, hope. So did they do it right?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah? And the tartar grade scene in ant Man and

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<v Speaker 3>the Loss, the second one, they're the other kind of

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<v Speaker 3>tartar grade. They're not like the one that's all over

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<v Speaker 3>the internet, and they're actually very well done, except for

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<v Speaker 3>the fact that they're swimming. But at least they don't

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<v Speaker 3>have an anocent.

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<v Speaker 2>Do they call up tartar gridologists and say, hey, how

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<v Speaker 2>can we make sure that we do this right?

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<v Speaker 3>They must have, because at least in that show they did,

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<v Speaker 3>because those are really well done. So they must have

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<v Speaker 3>talked to somebody I don't know who.

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<v Speaker 2>Next time, give you a holler, give you a jingle, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>invite you to the premiere. Also, can you describe also

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<v Speaker 2>their scale? Are they all super super tiny or do

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<v Speaker 2>they vary in size?

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<v Speaker 3>They do very in size, but in a very small

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<v Speaker 3>size range. We say they're microscopic. And so what we

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<v Speaker 3>mean by that you have to think small. You have

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<v Speaker 3>to think about a small size scale. So think about

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<v Speaker 3>the foot long ruler you had in grade school. Flip

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<v Speaker 3>it over to the metric side. It's divided into thirty centimeters,

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<v Speaker 3>and then each of those is divided into the tiny

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<v Speaker 3>little marks. Those are the millimeters. One millimeter is about

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<v Speaker 3>the size of the period at the end of a sentence.

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<v Speaker 3>You read this all the time in my crossy stuff,

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<v Speaker 3>and I actually measured it's true period. It's about the

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<v Speaker 3>size of one millimeter. The largest tartar grades can get

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<v Speaker 3>to be about one millimeter in length, the size of

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<v Speaker 3>that period. But those are the tous you know, tous

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<v Speaker 3>like rodents of unusual size.

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<v Speaker 2>Tartar grades of unusual size.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, I actually use that in a research paper. It's

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<v Speaker 3>been published.

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<v Speaker 2>That's amazing. I fact check this and the man is

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<v Speaker 2>not lying. You can see his twenty nineteen Zoological Journal

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<v Speaker 2>of the Linae and Society paper Altitudinal Gradients and Body

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<v Speaker 2>Size and Marine tartar Grade, which contains the sentence quote.

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<v Speaker 2>We did not find a significant increase in maximum body

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<v Speaker 2>size with latitude. Therefore this is not responsible for body size,

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<v Speaker 2>latitudinal gradients and marine tartargrades. But we examined our database

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<v Speaker 2>to find out whether there are polar tartigrades of unusual

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<v Speaker 2>size touss with our apologies to the princess bride end quote.

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<v Speaker 2>This is how you publish papers, folks.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, those are the tartar grades of unusual size. So

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<v Speaker 3>for a period at the end of sins you can

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<v Speaker 3>see it with your naked eye. Of course, right the

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<v Speaker 3>largest tartar grades could be seen with the naked eye,

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<v Speaker 3>but you wouldn't even know they're a tartar grade. They're

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<v Speaker 3>just a spec magnify them to study them. And there

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<v Speaker 3>are a whole lot of tartar grades that are much

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<v Speaker 3>smaller than that. So at the other end of the

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<v Speaker 3>size scale, the tiny end of the tartar grade size scale,

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<v Speaker 3>we have to have another unit of measure that's smaller.

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<v Speaker 3>So if you take that millimeter or that period at

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<v Speaker 3>the end of sens and you divide it a thousand times,

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<v Speaker 3>one of those units asand of a millimeter is a

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<v Speaker 3>micrometer or micron. The smallest adult Charte grades that I've

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<v Speaker 3>measured are between thirty five and forty microns. And to

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<v Speaker 3>put that into perspective, that's about half the width of

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<v Speaker 3>a human hair. Oh tiny, and you can't see that

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<v Speaker 3>with your naked eye. Teeny tiny. Here's another thing to

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<v Speaker 3>think about about life at small size scales. We have

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<v Speaker 3>this huge gap in our biodiversity knowledge, and it's the

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<v Speaker 3>gap between the number of known species currently and the

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<v Speaker 3>total species that are on earth, including all those You

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<v Speaker 3>have to be discovered. That gap is called the Linnaean

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<v Speaker 3>shortfall after Carolus Linnaeus, the eighteenth century naturalists who came

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<v Speaker 3>up with our system of classification we still use. So

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<v Speaker 3>one end of that gap, that huge gap between the

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<v Speaker 3>number known and the number not known, is the number

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<v Speaker 3>of known species. So you want to take a guess

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<v Speaker 3>at that, how many known species there currently are? How

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<v Speaker 3>many described?

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<v Speaker 2>Oh? Man, because there's I know, there's like three hundred

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<v Speaker 2>thousand of just beetles or something, right, but they're really

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<v Speaker 2>four thousand mammals.

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<v Speaker 3>So yeah, yeah, you're a bunkers, you know this.

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<v Speaker 2>No, I would guess like half a million.

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<v Speaker 3>There's almost a million insects species.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god. Okay, as a bug lover, a million

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<v Speaker 2>bugs thrills me. But what about all the species ever

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<v Speaker 2>on earth combined?

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<v Speaker 3>According to the IUCN, which is the group that keeps

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<v Speaker 3>track of endangered species, they say we're a little bit

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<v Speaker 3>over two million named species right now. But that's a guess.

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<v Speaker 3>And it's a guess because not all museum collections are digitized,

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<v Speaker 3>and if they are, they don't all talk to one another.

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00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:43.360
<v Speaker 3>The databases don't talk to one another, so it's a

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<v Speaker 3>big bioinformatics problem, and we're always describing new species, so

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<v Speaker 3>it's a moving target. But we'll just go with two

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<v Speaker 3>million for now. And so at the other end of

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<v Speaker 3>the continuum is the total number of species, including all

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<v Speaker 3>those you have to be discovered. So if we don't

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<v Speaker 3>know how many we know, we certainly don't know how

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<v Speaker 3>many we don't know. Guesses on that range really widely.

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<v Speaker 3>But to make a long story short, one estimate you

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<v Speaker 3>see a lot is nine million total species on Earth.

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<v Speaker 3>So that's the line in shortfall. Two million known, nine

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<v Speaker 3>million unknown. Both of those numbers are huge guesses, but

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<v Speaker 3>it's clear we have a giant line in shortfall. There's

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<v Speaker 3>a lot of life we don't know. The larger the species,

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<v Speaker 3>the more we already know, the fewer there are yet

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<v Speaker 3>to be discovered. And at the other end, when we

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<v Speaker 3>look at the microscopic range, especially, the reverse is true.

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<v Speaker 3>The fewer we know now and there are vast numbers

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<v Speaker 3>yet to be described. So life is mostly small, and

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<v Speaker 3>all those microbes and all those tiny little plants and

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<v Speaker 3>animals literally run the world. So I'm glad we're doing

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<v Speaker 3>this episode. Maybe it'll open door for other episodes about

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<v Speaker 3>microscopic organisms, because that tiny, tiny little world's huge.

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<v Speaker 2>For more on this, you can look into our biology

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<v Speaker 2>episode on Moss, which is excellent with Braiding Sweetgrass author

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<v Speaker 2>doctor Robin Wall Kimmerer. We also have a plenaria episode

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<v Speaker 2>with doctor one Pegahan and other teeny critters that we're

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<v Speaker 2>going to link in the show notes. Did you start

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<v Speaker 2>loving science from that tiny level or did you start

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<v Speaker 2>with like I love cheetahs and charismatic megafauna, and then

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<v Speaker 2>get smaller and smaller? Like what was your entry point?

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<v Speaker 3>Let's see, I got interested in biology through water. I

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<v Speaker 3>was one of those water rat kids, and somehow, growing

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<v Speaker 3>up in southern Illinois about as far away from the

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<v Speaker 3>ocean as you can possibly get, I got infatuated with

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<v Speaker 3>oceans and scuba diving. And I think the scuba diving

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<v Speaker 3>part was because of an old TV show called Sea Hunt.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh I've heard of it.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, Lloyd Bridges played Mike Nelson, and every week there

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<v Speaker 3>was another daring do underwater and so cool. What's the

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<v Speaker 3>matter with you? You want to sit out here in

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<v Speaker 3>this raft all night? No, but we might have to,

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<v Speaker 3>well not if you do something. So anyway, I got

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<v Speaker 3>interested in my first love in biology was marine biology

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<v Speaker 3>and coral Reefy College, and on coral reefs, the dominant

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<v Speaker 3>animals are invertebrates, so I immediately started studying invertebrates. And

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<v Speaker 3>then I learned about tartar grades when I took my

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<v Speaker 3>first zoology course and thought they were cool. I now

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<v Speaker 3>call them charismatic microfauna. I love that, you know, cute

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<v Speaker 3>and cuddley and champion animal survivors. What's not to love.

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<v Speaker 3>But I didn't start studying them until about the year

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<v Speaker 3>two thousand. I would teach my classes about them, but

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<v Speaker 3>we never could find them. And around the year two thousand,

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<v Speaker 3>I was looking for new research directions, and I was

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<v Speaker 3>looking for things that would attract undergraduate research interests because

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<v Speaker 3>that's who I supervise and research stuff. And I heard

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<v Speaker 3>about the All Taxibiodiversity Inventory, the ATBI that was starting

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<v Speaker 3>up in the Smokeyes Great Smoky Mountain National Park, which

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<v Speaker 3>is just an hour drive from Warren Wilson College, and

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<v Speaker 3>I knew they were looking for p able to study

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<v Speaker 3>unstudied groups. I knew tartar grades were one of those groups.

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<v Speaker 3>I also knew that I was not a taxonomic expert

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<v Speaker 3>on tartar grades. But the part biologists were able to

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<v Speaker 3>put me in touch with Diane Nelson, who is a

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<v Speaker 3>professor at East Tennessee State University, and so she became

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<v Speaker 3>my mentor in tartar grade ology and we still are

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<v Speaker 3>great friends and we continue to collaborate. With Diane's help

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<v Speaker 3>and with the whole army of Warren Wilson students, we

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<v Speaker 3>did a large scale inventory in the Smokies.

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<v Speaker 2>By large scale, he means large.

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<v Speaker 3>Scale, and it ended up taking ten years. It was

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<v Speaker 3>one of the largest inventories of tartar grades ever done,

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<v Speaker 3>and it was really successful at giving my students dozens

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<v Speaker 3>and dozens of research projects. We took the number of

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<v Speaker 3>known tartar grades in the park from zero to eighty five,

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<v Speaker 3>including twenty five new to science.

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<v Speaker 2>Nice nice work.

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<v Speaker 4>Wow.

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<v Speaker 3>We published a ton of papers and I finally developed

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<v Speaker 3>some expertise with that group of animals. And you know,

398
00:20:58.319 --> 00:20:59.519
<v Speaker 3>at least now I can find them.

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<v Speaker 2>I can't wait to get to tips. I should ask

400
00:21:01.960 --> 00:21:04.599
<v Speaker 2>first when it comes to what tartar grades are doing

401
00:21:04.759 --> 00:21:06.960
<v Speaker 2>in the universe, because they do run the world. What

402
00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.119
<v Speaker 2>are they eating, what are they pooping? Where are they living?

403
00:21:10.480 --> 00:21:13.960
<v Speaker 2>You said that they're benthic. Do they live in completely

404
00:21:13.960 --> 00:21:16.920
<v Speaker 2>aquatic environments or do they live as they're called moss

405
00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:19.720
<v Speaker 2>piglets or water bears. Are they in the moss? Are

406
00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:22.200
<v Speaker 2>they in the water? Do the fourteen hundred species live

407
00:21:22.200 --> 00:21:22.960
<v Speaker 2>in different places?

408
00:21:23.279 --> 00:21:27.039
<v Speaker 3>They live in different places. They all live in moist

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00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:32.799
<v Speaker 3>sediments basically, even if they're temporarily moist, So they live

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00:21:32.960 --> 00:21:36.880
<v Speaker 3>in ocean sediments both deep and shallow and on the beach.

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00:21:37.440 --> 00:21:42.480
<v Speaker 3>They live in aquatic sediments like in freshwater habitats, streams

412
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<v Speaker 3>and ponds, and especially they're really abundant in the periphytin.

413
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<v Speaker 3>It's the green scus that grows on rocks and plants

414
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<v Speaker 3>in ponds, And they occur in temporarily moist areas like

415
00:21:53.839 --> 00:21:56.880
<v Speaker 3>moss and lichens and soil, the grid on your gut,

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<v Speaker 3>or anything that's got something for them to hide in

417
00:22:00.119 --> 00:22:04.480
<v Speaker 3>and is at least temporarily moist, and they do all

418
00:22:04.559 --> 00:22:07.960
<v Speaker 3>kinds of things. There are some that are carnivores that

419
00:22:08.039 --> 00:22:11.759
<v Speaker 3>are eating other microscopic animals in their world. There are

420
00:22:11.799 --> 00:22:15.440
<v Speaker 3>some that are herbivores that are eating algae or sometimes

421
00:22:15.519 --> 00:22:18.640
<v Speaker 3>the moss tissue that they live in. There are some

422
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:24.640
<v Speaker 3>that are detritivores or microbivores sucking up the substrate, and

423
00:22:24.680 --> 00:22:27.680
<v Speaker 3>there's some that are omnivores, and you can sometimes tell

424
00:22:27.720 --> 00:22:32.720
<v Speaker 3>that from their mouthparts. Those with really robust mouthparts are predators.

425
00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:38.559
<v Speaker 3>Those with really thin light mouthparts are probably herbivores. And

426
00:22:38.599 --> 00:22:42.240
<v Speaker 3>those that have like a vacuum hose for mouthparts can

427
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:44.799
<v Speaker 3>bend their mouth down and kind of suck up the bottom.

428
00:22:44.799 --> 00:22:48.119
<v Speaker 3>Those are the detritivors. And you can sometimes do gut

429
00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:50.559
<v Speaker 3>contents analysis. You can look at them through the microscope,

430
00:22:50.599 --> 00:22:54.039
<v Speaker 3>and for example, you can see when a predator's been

431
00:22:54.079 --> 00:22:56.640
<v Speaker 3>eating other animals. You can see the hard parts of

432
00:22:56.680 --> 00:22:57.880
<v Speaker 3>those animals in their guts.

433
00:22:58.319 --> 00:23:00.640
<v Speaker 2>Take a moment, if you will, to a map X

434
00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:03.599
<v Speaker 2>ray vision into your guts right now. Mine would be

435
00:23:03.799 --> 00:23:07.559
<v Speaker 2>stale granola and yeah, a tin of smoked oysters. Also,

436
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:10.480
<v Speaker 2>for more on seeing into your own guts, please enjoy

437
00:23:10.519 --> 00:23:12.759
<v Speaker 2>the radiology episode on X ray vision. And we also

438
00:23:12.799 --> 00:23:16.519
<v Speaker 2>have a microbiology episode on how your own zoo of

439
00:23:16.680 --> 00:23:20.119
<v Speaker 2>bowel animals affects your vibe. Also, I have a field

440
00:23:20.119 --> 00:23:23.480
<v Speaker 2>trip episode about a kolonoscopy prep. So you're welcome. Don't

441
00:23:23.480 --> 00:23:25.960
<v Speaker 2>turn your nose up. You're going to need one one day,

442
00:23:26.240 --> 00:23:29.119
<v Speaker 2>speaking of do they have eyes or noses? How are

443
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:30.119
<v Speaker 2>they finding their prey?

444
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:34.160
<v Speaker 3>That is a great question. Some tartar grades have eye spots,

445
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.759
<v Speaker 3>some don't. We know that at least some of them

446
00:23:36.880 --> 00:23:41.039
<v Speaker 3>are negatively phototactic. They can move away from light, and

447
00:23:41.160 --> 00:23:44.319
<v Speaker 3>so they probably probably most tartar grades have eyes. But

448
00:23:44.319 --> 00:23:47.279
<v Speaker 3>here's the cool thing about this. So the ones that

449
00:23:47.319 --> 00:23:50.599
<v Speaker 3>have eyes have these some of them have big, dark

450
00:23:50.680 --> 00:23:54.400
<v Speaker 3>eyes and they're very cute looking. So we always were thinking, well,

451
00:23:54.920 --> 00:23:57.119
<v Speaker 3>what are the pigments in these eyes? You know, we

452
00:23:57.200 --> 00:23:59.759
<v Speaker 3>still don't know what the pigments are. But a student

453
00:23:59.839 --> 00:24:01.920
<v Speaker 3>in Germany, a PhD student in Germany just a couple

454
00:24:01.920 --> 00:24:03.960
<v Speaker 3>of years ago, published this cool paper where she was

455
00:24:03.960 --> 00:24:08.000
<v Speaker 3>looking at the ultrastructure of eyes and what she found

456
00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:10.680
<v Speaker 3>was that and we always knew that the eyes, the

457
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:13.839
<v Speaker 3>pigments were actually on the brain itself, it was part

458
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:17.440
<v Speaker 3>of the brain. So what she found was that, yeah,

459
00:24:17.440 --> 00:24:22.039
<v Speaker 3>that's true, but those pigment eye spots are not innervated.

460
00:24:22.240 --> 00:24:23.160
<v Speaker 4>What does that mean.

461
00:24:23.480 --> 00:24:27.160
<v Speaker 3>There's no nerves running from them to the brain, and

462
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:31.119
<v Speaker 3>underneath them are two different kinds of light sensor cells

463
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:33.440
<v Speaker 3>that we know from other invertebrate animals that are the

464
00:24:33.519 --> 00:24:36.599
<v Speaker 3>light sensors. So it raises the question, well, what are

465
00:24:36.640 --> 00:24:39.359
<v Speaker 3>the pigments for. What are they doing with those things

466
00:24:39.559 --> 00:24:43.240
<v Speaker 3>over their eyes? It's like wearing sunglasses. Why do you

467
00:24:43.359 --> 00:24:47.799
<v Speaker 3>bother having eyes if you're going to put sunglasses. I guess,

468
00:24:47.960 --> 00:24:49.880
<v Speaker 3>I mean, I don't really know. She had an idea.

469
00:24:50.000 --> 00:24:52.359
<v Speaker 3>We know they go away from light. Well, her thought

470
00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:56.000
<v Speaker 3>was that maybe it's creating shades so that the light

471
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:58.200
<v Speaker 3>gets shaded when it comes from one side, so that

472
00:24:58.200 --> 00:25:00.240
<v Speaker 3>they can tell which site it's coming from, which I

473
00:25:00.240 --> 00:25:01.279
<v Speaker 3>thought was a really cool idea.

474
00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:04.559
<v Speaker 2>Well, what about their brains? You mentioned them, so they

475
00:25:04.599 --> 00:25:08.200
<v Speaker 2>do have little tiny brains. How big is their brains?

476
00:25:08.240 --> 00:25:09.200
<v Speaker 2>What are they doing with them?

477
00:25:10.319 --> 00:25:10.559
<v Speaker 6>They have?

478
00:25:11.160 --> 00:25:13.680
<v Speaker 3>They have a fair sized brain and average sized brain

479
00:25:13.759 --> 00:25:15.480
<v Speaker 3>for a tiny you know, when you scale down their

480
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:18.319
<v Speaker 3>body size, they have an average sized brain for a

481
00:25:18.400 --> 00:25:21.400
<v Speaker 3>invertebrate animal. Their sensory depending on the species, they have

482
00:25:21.440 --> 00:25:24.720
<v Speaker 3>various sensors coming in from the head and from some

483
00:25:24.839 --> 00:25:28.319
<v Speaker 3>other as a body sometimes, and so they're responding to those.

484
00:25:28.359 --> 00:25:33.720
<v Speaker 3>They're responding to light. They're helping them orient their sensing smells,

485
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:36.039
<v Speaker 3>like males can orient to females based on the smell,

486
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:38.519
<v Speaker 3>They're running their mouth parts and their muscles, you know,

487
00:25:38.559 --> 00:25:40.799
<v Speaker 3>So it's doing all the stuff that brains do.

488
00:25:41.960 --> 00:25:45.119
<v Speaker 2>How are they reproducing? I didn't even think about that.

489
00:25:45.160 --> 00:25:50.200
<v Speaker 2>They seem just so gender neutral in the images that

490
00:25:50.240 --> 00:25:52.200
<v Speaker 2>I can think of. But how are they finding each other?

491
00:25:52.200 --> 00:25:55.759
<v Speaker 2>Are they having litters to the hafteny tiny nipples? What's

492
00:25:55.799 --> 00:25:56.240
<v Speaker 2>going on?

493
00:25:58.799 --> 00:26:02.880
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So there are fourteen hundred species, so there's some

494
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:06.240
<v Speaker 3>diversity in their reproduction. And there's one species that I

495
00:26:06.279 --> 00:26:09.200
<v Speaker 3>know of that's hermaphroditic and probably self fertile, we think,

496
00:26:09.519 --> 00:26:10.319
<v Speaker 3>but we don't really know.

497
00:26:10.640 --> 00:26:10.880
<v Speaker 7>Yes.

498
00:26:10.920 --> 00:26:14.039
<v Speaker 2>According to the twenty fourteen study titled Spermatozoa in the

499
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:17.640
<v Speaker 2>Reproductive System of a hermaphroditic marine, tartar grade or Zealiscus

500
00:26:17.680 --> 00:26:21.880
<v Speaker 2>belopus O. Belopus is a simultaneous hermaphrodite and suggests that

501
00:26:21.920 --> 00:26:27.359
<v Speaker 2>the reproductive mode includes copulation and cross fertilization, which means

502
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:30.680
<v Speaker 2>it's got both bits, but it still likes to get

503
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:33.519
<v Speaker 2>it on with others. Also fun side note. The species

504
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:36.599
<v Speaker 2>was first described by Eveline du Bois Raymond Marcus, who

505
00:26:36.680 --> 00:26:39.759
<v Speaker 2>was a German zoologist and artist who moved to Brazil

506
00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:42.920
<v Speaker 2>at the rise of Nazism because her husband, another zoologist,

507
00:26:42.960 --> 00:26:45.279
<v Speaker 2>was Jewish, so they've fled the country. She co wrote

508
00:26:45.279 --> 00:26:47.160
<v Speaker 2>a lot of his papers, but if she got credit,

509
00:26:47.160 --> 00:26:48.880
<v Speaker 2>then he wouldn't get paid, so she was kind of

510
00:26:48.920 --> 00:26:51.319
<v Speaker 2>like on the DL, really good at her job. Also,

511
00:26:51.400 --> 00:26:53.799
<v Speaker 2>you should know that there are three main flavors of

512
00:26:53.960 --> 00:26:57.119
<v Speaker 2>tartar grades. There are the U tartar grades, which are

513
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:01.640
<v Speaker 2>primarily freshwater bound. They are the heterotardeic grades, whose genies

514
00:27:01.880 --> 00:27:06.440
<v Speaker 2>have their own prenal gonopore instead of using the butthole

515
00:27:06.680 --> 00:27:10.640
<v Speaker 2>like the Utarta gratta. And then there are a third kind.

516
00:27:11.200 --> 00:27:14.200
<v Speaker 2>These are what Paul calls the Yeti of the water

517
00:27:14.279 --> 00:27:18.519
<v Speaker 2>bearer world. Do they exist? They are mezo tarta grades, which,

518
00:27:18.559 --> 00:27:22.200
<v Speaker 2>if you ask our pal Workipedia, mezzo Tarta grade is

519
00:27:22.279 --> 00:27:27.039
<v Speaker 2>represented by a single species known from a single specimen

520
00:27:27.319 --> 00:27:30.200
<v Speaker 2>found in a hot spring in Nagasaki, Japan. And that

521
00:27:30.319 --> 00:27:34.000
<v Speaker 2>one single specimen is now lost. Go back to the

522
00:27:34.039 --> 00:27:37.440
<v Speaker 2>location check for more. We can't because the location from

523
00:27:37.519 --> 00:27:40.799
<v Speaker 2>which that specimen was collected has since been destroyed by

524
00:27:40.839 --> 00:27:45.640
<v Speaker 2>an earthquake, so its reproductive anatomy has not been studied recently.

525
00:27:46.000 --> 00:27:49.240
<v Speaker 2>Did it ever exist or was the person who found

526
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:52.880
<v Speaker 2>it just mislabeling a different one that was already described.

527
00:27:53.160 --> 00:27:55.519
<v Speaker 2>If we build a time machine, can we go hot

528
00:27:55.559 --> 00:27:58.160
<v Speaker 2>tub and look forward again? How many are out there

529
00:27:58.200 --> 00:28:03.079
<v Speaker 2>that humans haven't found? And we'll never find mysteries abound?

530
00:28:03.519 --> 00:28:07.680
<v Speaker 3>Let's get sexy, and then at least half, maybe most

531
00:28:08.200 --> 00:28:11.480
<v Speaker 3>of the rest of them have separate sexes and reproduce sexually.

532
00:28:11.519 --> 00:28:14.240
<v Speaker 3>So males and females reproduce sexually. And then there's some

533
00:28:14.279 --> 00:28:16.519
<v Speaker 3>other ones that we've never found males, and we know

534
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:20.000
<v Speaker 3>that the females can produce all daughter offspring, and so

535
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:23.319
<v Speaker 3>they're reproducing asexually, but we also know they can switch

536
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:27.759
<v Speaker 3>between those things. And there was a Japanese researcher had

537
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:32.279
<v Speaker 3>a culture of asexually reproducing species going for generations, all females,

538
00:28:32.279 --> 00:28:33.920
<v Speaker 3>and all of a sudden the male popped up and

539
00:28:34.240 --> 00:28:36.559
<v Speaker 3>they made it. So they probably can go back and

540
00:28:36.599 --> 00:28:40.759
<v Speaker 3>forth at least occasionally. And some species males are almost

541
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.039
<v Speaker 3>equal to them females, so there's a variation in sex

542
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:46.920
<v Speaker 3>ratio and this whole switch between a sexuality and sexuality.

543
00:28:47.160 --> 00:28:50.119
<v Speaker 2>So yes, females tend to be more numerous than males,

544
00:28:50.160 --> 00:28:54.119
<v Speaker 2>and even in some populations that pomp out bibiz with

545
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:58.160
<v Speaker 2>no males, a male might pop up. Now, other species

546
00:28:58.200 --> 00:29:01.839
<v Speaker 2>of tarte grades have co ed existences, and apparently there

547
00:29:01.960 --> 00:29:06.319
<v Speaker 2>is flirting that happens right now in a slimy gutter

548
00:29:06.400 --> 00:29:09.119
<v Speaker 2>near you. There are teeny creatures that have more riz

549
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:09.680
<v Speaker 2>than you do.

550
00:29:10.200 --> 00:29:13.160
<v Speaker 3>And me in the sexually reproducing when. There's been a

551
00:29:13.200 --> 00:29:16.759
<v Speaker 3>couple of papers describing mating behavior in the last few years,

552
00:29:17.160 --> 00:29:20.640
<v Speaker 3>and it's pretty cool. In one of them, it's pretty weird. Actually.

553
00:29:21.000 --> 00:29:23.319
<v Speaker 3>This was a German team that had a culture of

554
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:26.440
<v Speaker 3>sexually reproducing species going and they were able to videotape

555
00:29:26.440 --> 00:29:29.839
<v Speaker 3>them well okay, and what they saw was that the

556
00:29:29.880 --> 00:29:32.759
<v Speaker 3>males were attracted to females who had eggs, and they

557
00:29:32.839 --> 00:29:37.240
<v Speaker 3>figured it was most likely pheromonal and the male. When

558
00:29:37.240 --> 00:29:39.960
<v Speaker 3>the male found the female, he would wrap his body

559
00:29:40.039 --> 00:29:44.519
<v Speaker 3>around her head and the female. They saw the female

560
00:29:44.599 --> 00:29:46.839
<v Speaker 3>using her stilts to poke out into the belly of

561
00:29:46.880 --> 00:29:49.960
<v Speaker 3>the male and they presume that was stimulating him. And

562
00:29:50.039 --> 00:29:55.440
<v Speaker 3>then he ejaculated multiple times for over an hour what

563
00:29:58.160 --> 00:30:00.839
<v Speaker 3>and at the head, so the the sperm was released

564
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:04.200
<v Speaker 3>at the head, and so these researchers thought, well, that

565
00:30:04.279 --> 00:30:07.119
<v Speaker 3>must have been you know, just an a barren observation

566
00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:10.680
<v Speaker 3>or maybe a confused male. But they ended up seeing

567
00:30:10.759 --> 00:30:13.359
<v Speaker 3>thirty different matings and it was the same every time.

568
00:30:14.480 --> 00:30:16.440
<v Speaker 3>And then another study came out after that with a

569
00:30:16.480 --> 00:30:18.519
<v Speaker 3>different species and they made it like you would think

570
00:30:18.559 --> 00:30:22.279
<v Speaker 3>it was cloaca to cloaca like birds, like chloaqal kiss

571
00:30:22.279 --> 00:30:26.319
<v Speaker 3>from a bird. And so my thought on that is,

572
00:30:26.359 --> 00:30:28.960
<v Speaker 3>maybe it's such a tiny little distance for sperm to

573
00:30:29.000 --> 00:30:30.680
<v Speaker 3>travel they don't care where they release it.

574
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:37.720
<v Speaker 2>Wild wild Can it get into the reproductive system orally?

575
00:30:39.119 --> 00:30:42.680
<v Speaker 3>That's a great question, and that's one possibility. They never

576
00:30:42.759 --> 00:30:45.000
<v Speaker 3>really saw where the sperm was going in. But what

577
00:30:45.079 --> 00:30:47.279
<v Speaker 3>happens in that particular species when the female as egg

578
00:30:47.319 --> 00:30:51.079
<v Speaker 3>she kind of scrunches her body up inside the cuticle,

579
00:30:51.160 --> 00:30:53.559
<v Speaker 3>So you see the big empty cuticle, and she's kind

580
00:30:53.559 --> 00:30:56.160
<v Speaker 3>of scrunched up, and she starts to deposit her eggs

581
00:30:56.200 --> 00:30:59.000
<v Speaker 3>inside that cuticle. So the front half of her kind

582
00:30:59.000 --> 00:31:01.759
<v Speaker 3>of crawling around and the back half is filled with eggs.

583
00:31:02.160 --> 00:31:05.920
<v Speaker 3>And at that point there's two openings into the body

584
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:08.440
<v Speaker 3>into the cuticle. One would be the mouth and one

585
00:31:08.480 --> 00:31:11.640
<v Speaker 3>would be the cloaca, And so it could have gone

586
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:14.000
<v Speaker 3>in either way, but it got in because it had

587
00:31:14.039 --> 00:31:16.359
<v Speaker 3>to furtilize the eggs inside the cuticle, so it had

588
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:17.680
<v Speaker 3>to get in somehow, So.

589
00:31:17.759 --> 00:31:19.599
<v Speaker 2>Really just use either door.

590
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:20.279
<v Speaker 3>Hold up.

591
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:23.519
<v Speaker 2>What is with this overcoat? Though, Let's talk about the cuticle.

592
00:31:23.920 --> 00:31:27.519
<v Speaker 2>Is that cuticle squishy like a water balloon or is

593
00:31:27.559 --> 00:31:30.599
<v Speaker 2>it kind of rigid or can they change it depending

594
00:31:30.640 --> 00:31:32.200
<v Speaker 2>on the external conditions.

595
00:31:32.519 --> 00:31:35.519
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, there's some flexibility. Some places are thicker than others

596
00:31:35.559 --> 00:31:37.839
<v Speaker 3>and are more rigid than others, so they have the

597
00:31:37.880 --> 00:31:41.960
<v Speaker 3>ability to bend here and there. But generally speaking their

598
00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:47.039
<v Speaker 3>semi rigid like a cicada shell. Okay, but microscoptic.

599
00:31:47.599 --> 00:31:54.119
<v Speaker 2>How on Earth or how in space can these little wigglers?

600
00:31:54.559 --> 00:32:00.200
<v Speaker 2>How are they surviving desiccated for years? How can they

601
00:32:00.279 --> 00:32:04.240
<v Speaker 2>survive in the vacuum of space? What is going on

602
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:09.480
<v Speaker 2>with these very resilient, little, tiny little bad asses.

603
00:32:11.759 --> 00:32:14.640
<v Speaker 3>This is the tartar Grade claim to fame. It's a

604
00:32:14.720 --> 00:32:18.119
<v Speaker 3>single most studied aspect of their biology. So we could

605
00:32:18.119 --> 00:32:19.359
<v Speaker 3>talk about this for a long time.

606
00:32:19.480 --> 00:32:20.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

607
00:32:21.000 --> 00:32:25.480
<v Speaker 3>The way they survive not just drying out, but all

608
00:32:25.559 --> 00:32:29.119
<v Speaker 3>kinds of environmental extremes, including space exposure, which we need

609
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:34.039
<v Speaker 3>to talk about, is they go into an inactive resting

610
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:39.759
<v Speaker 3>state called cryptobiosis, which literally means hidden life. And in

611
00:32:39.759 --> 00:32:43.200
<v Speaker 3>this state, they have no measurable water in their bodies,

612
00:32:43.279 --> 00:32:47.359
<v Speaker 3>they have no gas exchange going on, no energy usage.

613
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:52.079
<v Speaker 3>They're dead, except they can come back to life. Spooky,

614
00:32:53.000 --> 00:32:57.920
<v Speaker 3>and when they're in that condition, they are incredibly resilient.

615
00:32:58.000 --> 00:33:00.079
<v Speaker 3>There's been all these experiments where they expose them to

616
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:02.960
<v Speaker 3>different extremes and see what kind of survival there is.

617
00:33:03.000 --> 00:33:08.799
<v Speaker 3>And they've survived complete drying out, complete vacuum temperatures over

618
00:33:08.920 --> 00:33:12.920
<v Speaker 3>three hundred degrees fahrenheit, temperatures down to almost minus three

619
00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:17.920
<v Speaker 3>hundred degrees fahrenheit, really high levels of radiation like twenty

620
00:33:17.960 --> 00:33:22.079
<v Speaker 3>times the estimated maximum dose from the Nagasaki bomb, and

621
00:33:23.079 --> 00:33:27.720
<v Speaker 3>much higher pressures than you would experience at the Marianna Strench.

622
00:33:28.200 --> 00:33:32.599
<v Speaker 2>So they can survive really high pressure, low pressure vacuums,

623
00:33:32.920 --> 00:33:39.039
<v Speaker 2>extreme temperatures, radiation, and dehydration like nothing. You can imagine.

624
00:33:39.079 --> 00:33:41.160
<v Speaker 2>You're never going to catch a tartar grade with the hydroflask,

625
00:33:41.400 --> 00:33:41.960
<v Speaker 2>don't eat it.

626
00:33:42.400 --> 00:33:47.640
<v Speaker 3>So incredibly resilient and oh you might think about those experiments,

627
00:33:47.680 --> 00:33:50.759
<v Speaker 3>they're kind of evil scientist stuff from a tartar grade

628
00:33:50.799 --> 00:33:53.319
<v Speaker 3>point of view. One of them, one recent experiment shot

629
00:33:53.359 --> 00:33:57.240
<v Speaker 3>a mautic guns into sandbags to see what kind of

630
00:33:57.279 --> 00:33:58.519
<v Speaker 3>impact they could take.

631
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:00.319
<v Speaker 2>What they do.

632
00:34:01.319 --> 00:34:03.559
<v Speaker 3>They didn't do very well with that. Okay, a little

633
00:34:03.599 --> 00:34:05.440
<v Speaker 3>tartar grades. I want all the tartar grades listening to know.

634
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:10.119
<v Speaker 3>I've never done these experiments either way. So they didn't

635
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:13.239
<v Speaker 3>do very well with that experiment. But they're incredibly resilient

636
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:16.880
<v Speaker 3>to pretty much every environmental extreme we can throw at them,

637
00:34:17.000 --> 00:34:20.000
<v Speaker 3>and as you mentioned, they can do it for many,

638
00:34:20.000 --> 00:34:22.760
<v Speaker 3>many years. And this is even to me more mind blowing.

639
00:34:23.239 --> 00:34:26.239
<v Speaker 3>Our understanding of how long they can withstand environmental extremes

640
00:34:26.280 --> 00:34:28.800
<v Speaker 3>has changed over time. We used to say it was

641
00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:32.159
<v Speaker 3>about one hundred years. They could live maybe one hundred years,

642
00:34:32.400 --> 00:34:36.119
<v Speaker 3>and that was because some people found some moss in

643
00:34:36.119 --> 00:34:38.039
<v Speaker 3>a museum that was one hundred years old and they

644
00:34:38.239 --> 00:34:41.920
<v Speaker 3>extracted tartar grades, and they said that they got the

645
00:34:41.960 --> 00:34:45.639
<v Speaker 3>animals to come out of cryptobiosis. Later people said, yeah,

646
00:34:46.199 --> 00:34:50.119
<v Speaker 3>maybe they just saw movement when the animal filled with water.

647
00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:53.519
<v Speaker 3>Turns out, it's not real easy to tell the difference

648
00:34:53.559 --> 00:34:56.960
<v Speaker 3>between a cryptobiotic live turtar grade and a cryptobiotic dead

649
00:34:57.000 --> 00:34:59.239
<v Speaker 3>tartar grade. So we kind of dropped back from that

650
00:34:59.280 --> 00:35:02.320
<v Speaker 3>and then somebody found some samples that were thirty five

651
00:35:02.400 --> 00:35:05.920
<v Speaker 3>years old and they definitely got resuscitation. So we've been

652
00:35:05.960 --> 00:35:08.920
<v Speaker 3>saying recently that we know they can live at least decades,

653
00:35:09.599 --> 00:35:15.119
<v Speaker 3>but I have a prediction that we will soon know

654
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:18.320
<v Speaker 3>that they can live tens of thousands of years.

655
00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:20.719
<v Speaker 2>What how?

656
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:23.239
<v Speaker 3>And the reason I'll say that is because there have

657
00:35:23.280 --> 00:35:27.320
<v Speaker 3>been two papers published in the last three years that

658
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:32.920
<v Speaker 3>found other cryptobiotic animals in ice cores from Siberian permafrost.

659
00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:36.719
<v Speaker 3>These were both papers published from Russia, and they brought

660
00:35:36.760 --> 00:35:40.960
<v Speaker 3>those animals back to the lab and they thought them out,

661
00:35:41.320 --> 00:35:44.199
<v Speaker 3>and they moved and they reproduced. So I think it's

662
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:45.360
<v Speaker 3>fair to say that they were alive.

663
00:35:45.679 --> 00:35:49.960
<v Speaker 2>Mm hmm, long nap immediate boning. Every day is vacation

664
00:35:50.119 --> 00:35:53.079
<v Speaker 2>day for a tartar grade. But how long was this nap?

665
00:35:53.360 --> 00:35:55.599
<v Speaker 2>So in an email after this chat, Paul wrote me,

666
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:59.679
<v Speaker 2>how long can they survive in cryptobiosis? Indirect evidence of

667
00:35:59.760 --> 00:36:04.760
<v Speaker 2>tens of thousands of years? For exclamation points for well

668
00:36:04.840 --> 00:36:08.880
<v Speaker 2>earned exclamation points, And he elaborates on those Siberian ice

669
00:36:08.960 --> 00:36:11.599
<v Speaker 2>core resurrections.

670
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:14.920
<v Speaker 3>And one of those was dated to twenty five thousand

671
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:16.760
<v Speaker 3>years ago, and one of them was dated to forty

672
00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:19.559
<v Speaker 3>six thousand years ago.

673
00:36:20.039 --> 00:36:23.400
<v Speaker 2>The cores or the tartar grades themselves.

674
00:36:23.239 --> 00:36:25.400
<v Speaker 3>Both the ice cores were dated that long, and so

675
00:36:25.440 --> 00:36:28.079
<v Speaker 3>we know that animals were there from that period of

676
00:36:28.079 --> 00:36:31.239
<v Speaker 3>time as well. We had no idea they could live

677
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:35.039
<v Speaker 3>that long, and so this was really mind blowing. And

678
00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:40.920
<v Speaker 3>tartar grades have at least as sophisticated of cryptobiotic machinery

679
00:36:41.039 --> 00:36:44.400
<v Speaker 3>as do the other animals that were found in these cores.

680
00:36:44.480 --> 00:36:48.039
<v Speaker 3>Those other animals were rotifers and nematodes. So I think

681
00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:49.800
<v Speaker 3>it's just a matter of time before we find tartar

682
00:36:49.840 --> 00:36:51.800
<v Speaker 3>grades in those ice cores as well.

683
00:36:52.480 --> 00:36:54.760
<v Speaker 2>Do we have any idea and by we, I'm using

684
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:58.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm including myself in this because I would like to be.

685
00:36:59.320 --> 00:37:02.239
<v Speaker 2>I wish I were a tartar gridologist. Dude, that royal.

686
00:37:02.280 --> 00:37:06.000
<v Speaker 2>We have any idea how on earth they can survive that?

687
00:37:06.039 --> 00:37:08.440
<v Speaker 2>And what kind of implications does that have for mortality

688
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:09.239
<v Speaker 2>in general?

689
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:13.079
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, yeah, so that's a good question. Yes, we

690
00:37:13.159 --> 00:37:18.400
<v Speaker 3>do have some idea how they do cryptobiosis. And before

691
00:37:18.440 --> 00:37:19.880
<v Speaker 3>I tell you that, though, I need to give a

692
00:37:19.880 --> 00:37:22.440
<v Speaker 3>little qualification to how tough they are. You know, sometimes

693
00:37:22.519 --> 00:37:25.400
<v Speaker 3>because of this ability to stand all these conditions for

694
00:37:25.440 --> 00:37:28.679
<v Speaker 3>so long. Tartar grades are called the toughest animals on Earth.

695
00:37:28.920 --> 00:37:31.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's what I think of when I think of them.

696
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:37.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and I agree with that, but with two qualifications

697
00:37:37.840 --> 00:37:41.320
<v Speaker 3>that are I think important. One is that not all

698
00:37:41.360 --> 00:37:45.880
<v Speaker 3>Tartar grades are cryptobiotic. They're fourteen hundred species. Cryptobiosis is

699
00:37:45.920 --> 00:37:49.280
<v Speaker 3>a trick of the terrestrial Tartar grades, the ones in

700
00:37:49.360 --> 00:37:52.840
<v Speaker 3>mosses and lichens. It's what allowed them to colonize terrestrial habitats.

701
00:37:53.559 --> 00:37:57.239
<v Speaker 3>The truly aquatic, either freshwater or marine ones don't have

702
00:37:57.320 --> 00:38:00.920
<v Speaker 3>that ability. Oh and the other thing is note that

703
00:38:00.960 --> 00:38:04.559
<v Speaker 3>the way that they do cryptobiosis is an inactive state.

704
00:38:04.760 --> 00:38:08.880
<v Speaker 3>They're able to survive environmental extremes by going inactive, but

705
00:38:09.000 --> 00:38:13.159
<v Speaker 3>an active animal is pretty easy to kill. So sometimes

706
00:38:13.159 --> 00:38:16.719
<v Speaker 3>you read that Tartar grades are extremophiles, and they're really not.

707
00:38:17.039 --> 00:38:20.440
<v Speaker 3>They're extremeo tolerant is the better term, and that makes

708
00:38:20.440 --> 00:38:23.559
<v Speaker 3>a difference if you're an astrobiologist interested in life on

709
00:38:23.599 --> 00:38:26.400
<v Speaker 3>other planets and looking at Earth models for what that

710
00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:29.239
<v Speaker 3>might look like. It's really different if you're an extremophile

711
00:38:29.360 --> 00:38:34.960
<v Speaker 3>versus extrematolerant. So my proviso is that some tartar grades

712
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:36.960
<v Speaker 3>are the toughest animals on Earth. When they're sleeping.

713
00:38:39.239 --> 00:38:42.679
<v Speaker 2>Do you think that their brains are just water activated.

714
00:38:43.280 --> 00:38:45.480
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So here's what happens. Here's how they do this.

715
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:49.480
<v Speaker 3>Back to your question of how they do this. So

716
00:38:49.559 --> 00:38:51.639
<v Speaker 3>imagine you're a tartar grade living on a moss cushion

717
00:38:52.119 --> 00:38:55.320
<v Speaker 3>and you're happily crawling around in the water film of

718
00:38:55.360 --> 00:38:59.000
<v Speaker 3>that moss doing your little tardigrade life. But the sun

719
00:38:59.039 --> 00:39:02.599
<v Speaker 3>comes up and the water starts to dry up, and

720
00:39:02.679 --> 00:39:06.000
<v Speaker 3>you're gonna die if you don't do something. So you

721
00:39:06.079 --> 00:39:09.599
<v Speaker 3>pull in your legs, you contract all your muscles and

722
00:39:09.639 --> 00:39:12.440
<v Speaker 3>curl up, and that expels all the water from your

723
00:39:12.480 --> 00:39:15.679
<v Speaker 3>body and you form this little shape called a ton

724
00:39:15.880 --> 00:39:18.400
<v Speaker 3>t un, which is a barrel shape. It looks like

725
00:39:19.159 --> 00:39:21.800
<v Speaker 3>some other word for a cask or a barrel. So

726
00:39:22.039 --> 00:39:25.280
<v Speaker 3>they go into this ton state, and while they do that,

727
00:39:25.480 --> 00:39:31.360
<v Speaker 3>they start producing a whole biochemical toolkit of protectant molecules.

728
00:39:32.320 --> 00:39:35.280
<v Speaker 3>And we're learning more about this every year, and there's

729
00:39:35.280 --> 00:39:40.360
<v Speaker 3>some biotechnological applications about this as well, which maybe kind

730
00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:42.320
<v Speaker 3>of gets to your question about what this means for

731
00:39:42.400 --> 00:39:45.679
<v Speaker 3>longevity and I'm not a biochemist. This isn't my area

732
00:39:45.719 --> 00:39:47.639
<v Speaker 3>of study, so I won't go into much detail about this,

733
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:52.960
<v Speaker 3>but we know that this biochemical toolkit includes antioxidants, heat

734
00:39:53.000 --> 00:39:58.519
<v Speaker 3>shock proteins, these other really cool proteins called intrinsically disordered proteins,

735
00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:02.800
<v Speaker 3>and in some cases they produce a sugar called tree helos.

736
00:40:04.039 --> 00:40:08.960
<v Speaker 3>And what all those molecules do is they help DNA

737
00:40:09.920 --> 00:40:12.760
<v Speaker 3>not get damaged during cryptobiosis, or if it does get damage,

738
00:40:12.760 --> 00:40:15.400
<v Speaker 3>they help fix it. They can stitch it back together again.

739
00:40:16.599 --> 00:40:19.519
<v Speaker 3>They protect the membranes, they protect all the other cells

740
00:40:19.639 --> 00:40:23.840
<v Speaker 3>the brain, so they're all working together to protect the

741
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:26.320
<v Speaker 3>whole package. And we don't know the details, but that's

742
00:40:26.440 --> 00:40:29.679
<v Speaker 3>generally what's happening. The one particular piece of that that

743
00:40:29.760 --> 00:40:32.159
<v Speaker 3>I think is the coolest is the sugar tree holos.

744
00:40:32.440 --> 00:40:35.119
<v Speaker 4>Again, this is a wild so in.

745
00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:38.840
<v Speaker 3>The ones that produce tree helos, what they do is

746
00:40:38.920 --> 00:40:41.440
<v Speaker 3>they start to dry out. They produce this simple sugar

747
00:40:41.719 --> 00:40:44.719
<v Speaker 3>and some of these other proteins connect with the sugar

748
00:40:45.199 --> 00:40:49.639
<v Speaker 3>and they start to convert the animal from its liquid

749
00:40:49.679 --> 00:40:54.320
<v Speaker 3>state to a glass like state in the process called vitrification.

750
00:40:55.559 --> 00:40:58.000
<v Speaker 3>So it's like if you had a bag of gummy bears,

751
00:40:58.079 --> 00:41:02.719
<v Speaker 3>just regular gunners spilled open and dried out for months

752
00:41:02.760 --> 00:41:06.320
<v Speaker 3>and months and months, they would become hardened and they'd

753
00:41:06.320 --> 00:41:10.360
<v Speaker 3>become like a little rigid gummy bear. That's exactly what's

754
00:41:10.400 --> 00:41:13.719
<v Speaker 3>happening with these Tartar grades is they become rigid, little

755
00:41:13.719 --> 00:41:17.039
<v Speaker 3>microscopic gummy bears that are hardened in glass like because

756
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:20.000
<v Speaker 3>of the sugar casing that forms a matrix protecting all

757
00:41:20.000 --> 00:41:21.000
<v Speaker 3>the cells in their body.

758
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:24.119
<v Speaker 2>Oh wow, is it water soluble?

759
00:41:24.199 --> 00:41:27.719
<v Speaker 3>Then it is, Yeah, it is, so this is would

760
00:41:27.719 --> 00:41:31.840
<v Speaker 3>happen when it's drying out. A really cool biotechnological application

761
00:41:31.880 --> 00:41:35.960
<v Speaker 3>of that is a pharmaceutical company has used biomemicry where

762
00:41:36.000 --> 00:41:37.639
<v Speaker 3>they said, hey, that's a cool thing that some of

763
00:41:37.639 --> 00:41:41.360
<v Speaker 3>these animals, like Tartar grades do this vitrification thing. I

764
00:41:41.440 --> 00:41:46.440
<v Speaker 3>wonder if we can use vitrification to stabilize vaccines for

765
00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:49.679
<v Speaker 3>long periods of time. And they actually they didn't use

766
00:41:49.719 --> 00:41:52.400
<v Speaker 3>the exact same sugar, but they used another sugar and

767
00:41:52.440 --> 00:41:57.280
<v Speaker 3>they created little tiny sugar globules that captured the vaccines

768
00:41:57.679 --> 00:42:00.960
<v Speaker 3>and it worked. They have huge long shell life and

769
00:42:01.320 --> 00:42:04.400
<v Speaker 3>when they're injected in the body, the sugar just disperses

770
00:42:04.599 --> 00:42:08.079
<v Speaker 3>and mounts and then the vaccine can be released. Wow.

771
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:11.199
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I have so many questions from listeners. Can I

772
00:42:11.239 --> 00:42:12.079
<v Speaker 2>ask you one million?

773
00:42:14.320 --> 00:42:15.320
<v Speaker 3>Sure? Sure?

774
00:42:15.519 --> 00:42:18.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay? And before we get to here one million questions patrons,

775
00:42:18.480 --> 00:42:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Let's first toss a little money toward a reputable cause,

776
00:42:20.920 --> 00:42:24.320
<v Speaker 2>and this week Paul picked the wonderful Zerxi Society. We

777
00:42:24.400 --> 00:42:27.719
<v Speaker 2>love them. For over fifty years, the Zerxi Society for

778
00:42:27.840 --> 00:42:32.760
<v Speaker 2>Invertebrate Conservation has protected endangered species and their habitats, produced

779
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:36.920
<v Speaker 2>groundbreaking publications, trained thousands of farmers and land managers to

780
00:42:37.000 --> 00:42:40.400
<v Speaker 2>conserve habitat, and raised awareness about the importance and plight

781
00:42:40.440 --> 00:42:44.800
<v Speaker 2>of invertebrates in forests, prairies, deserts and in oceans. So

782
00:42:44.880 --> 00:42:47.159
<v Speaker 2>you can find out more about their programs at zercees

783
00:42:47.480 --> 00:42:50.639
<v Speaker 2>xerces dot org, which is linked in the show notes.

784
00:42:50.840 --> 00:42:52.199
<v Speaker 2>And that donation was made.

785
00:42:52.000 --> 00:42:57.800
<v Speaker 7>Possible by sponsors of ologies ban lantalmagts Boga on the Henir,

786
00:42:58.079 --> 00:43:02.760
<v Speaker 7>the Hula, the Hayman Ahead Cause, ah Ers Ors Lance

787
00:43:02.880 --> 00:43:09.480
<v Speaker 7>LADENI Detained Nudovshuhu La Jula, Trumperoids on us Ors lanse

788
00:43:09.920 --> 00:43:14.039
<v Speaker 7>Is Phaser, lad Gun's Throw, Tasha Tapa Sera nashka.

789
00:43:15.920 --> 00:43:20.639
<v Speaker 1>Is FuGO moreri h I A punk ie is called

790
00:43:21.440 --> 00:43:23.599
<v Speaker 1>on tudoros or raslanse if we realed this in.

791
00:43:23.599 --> 00:43:27.840
<v Speaker 2>The hearn okay now in your questions. Patrons submitted these

792
00:43:27.960 --> 00:43:31.119
<v Speaker 2>via patreon dot com. Slash ologies were for one dollar

793
00:43:31.159 --> 00:43:33.559
<v Speaker 2>a month. I may ask your question and say your

794
00:43:33.639 --> 00:43:36.599
<v Speaker 2>name with my mouth. We even have tears to leave

795
00:43:36.679 --> 00:43:39.000
<v Speaker 2>us an audio message so you could hear your voice

796
00:43:39.000 --> 00:43:41.000
<v Speaker 2>on the show. But yes, this one was asked by

797
00:43:41.000 --> 00:43:44.480
<v Speaker 2>patrons Rowan Tree, PAVCA thirty four, Levi I Morris, Laura M. Smithberg,

798
00:43:44.480 --> 00:43:48.400
<v Speaker 2>Gilly Magzaroni, Gabriel Charmoney, Christine Hurley's Douggie, Rosi Hope, Madeline

799
00:43:48.400 --> 00:43:51.079
<v Speaker 2>and Gregorias of Tomsk in their words, asked, is it

800
00:43:51.119 --> 00:43:53.719
<v Speaker 2>possible Tarta Grade had once hitched a ride on an

801
00:43:53.719 --> 00:44:01.800
<v Speaker 2>asteroid from another solar system? We were talking about and

802
00:44:01.800 --> 00:44:06.159
<v Speaker 2>how they survive in space? But essentially, are the aliens?

803
00:44:06.280 --> 00:44:08.920
<v Speaker 2>Did they come from space? How do they do what

804
00:44:08.960 --> 00:44:10.519
<v Speaker 2>they do? Did they come from another planet?

805
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:15.360
<v Speaker 3>Yes, Virginia, they are aliens.

806
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:18.960
<v Speaker 2>Oh, thank you. Yes, Virginia. Is what people say when

807
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:21.519
<v Speaker 2>they allow you to believe in magic and they don't

808
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:22.360
<v Speaker 2>ruin it for.

809
00:44:22.239 --> 00:44:26.000
<v Speaker 3>You in the sense that they're exotic and unusual to

810
00:44:26.039 --> 00:44:29.599
<v Speaker 3>most people. Okay, but it's not because the Tartar grades

811
00:44:29.679 --> 00:44:32.079
<v Speaker 3>and where their home planet is. It's because people don't

812
00:44:32.079 --> 00:44:38.280
<v Speaker 3>pay attention to the microscopic world. So, yeah, why do

813
00:44:38.320 --> 00:44:40.360
<v Speaker 3>you think people ask that question.

814
00:44:41.519 --> 00:44:48.400
<v Speaker 2>I think that they seem so much heartier, and we

815
00:44:49.360 --> 00:44:52.679
<v Speaker 2>maybe compare them to ourselves, and so we think if

816
00:44:52.679 --> 00:44:55.880
<v Speaker 2>we are the standard species on the planet, because that's

817
00:44:55.920 --> 00:44:59.639
<v Speaker 2>how humans think, and they are so different. They must

818
00:44:59.679 --> 00:45:01.480
<v Speaker 2>be from Mars.

819
00:45:01.880 --> 00:45:04.880
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, and they survive space exposure, right right?

820
00:45:04.960 --> 00:45:05.280
<v Speaker 6>Yeah?

821
00:45:05.360 --> 00:45:09.159
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, okay, Well let me think about that a while.

822
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:14.239
<v Speaker 2>No, no hard, no, no great, So.

823
00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:19.960
<v Speaker 3>A couple things come to mind. The studies that expose

824
00:45:20.039 --> 00:45:24.639
<v Speaker 3>them to space have a huge fine print qualification that

825
00:45:24.679 --> 00:45:27.320
<v Speaker 3>we need to talk about. The headline is that tartar

826
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:30.880
<v Speaker 3>grades survived space exposure. The details are much more nuanced

827
00:45:30.920 --> 00:45:34.159
<v Speaker 3>than that, and the reality is they did not survive

828
00:45:34.719 --> 00:45:38.960
<v Speaker 3>all the hazards of space, so that piece of the

829
00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:42.840
<v Speaker 3>observation doesn't really fit. No, they can't survive long term

830
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:47.119
<v Speaker 3>travel through space. And when you look at them, maybe

831
00:45:47.159 --> 00:45:51.000
<v Speaker 3>they look unusual if you haven't seen a whole lot

832
00:45:51.000 --> 00:45:56.679
<v Speaker 3>of other related invertebrates. But they're DNA's just like our DNA.

833
00:45:57.320 --> 00:45:59.960
<v Speaker 3>They have gene sequences base pair for base pair. They're

834
00:46:00.199 --> 00:46:04.519
<v Speaker 3>just like closely related species. The biochemistry of their cuticle

835
00:46:04.719 --> 00:46:08.719
<v Speaker 3>and their molting processes just like other molting animals. They're

836
00:46:09.599 --> 00:46:13.920
<v Speaker 3>obviously very closely related to Earth animals unless all of

837
00:46:13.920 --> 00:46:19.519
<v Speaker 3>them came from somewhere else. Maybe not likely, probably not so.

838
00:46:19.599 --> 00:46:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Flim flam fusted. Tartar grades are not aliens on Earth.

839
00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:26.159
<v Speaker 2>It's okay, We'll be okay.

840
00:46:26.239 --> 00:46:29.280
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that idea. By the way, astrobiology is the study

841
00:46:29.360 --> 00:46:31.840
<v Speaker 3>of the possibility of life on other planets and a

842
00:46:31.960 --> 00:46:35.360
<v Speaker 3>look at tartar grades and other extreme survival animals to

843
00:46:35.400 --> 00:46:37.559
<v Speaker 3>see if they can tell them something about what to

844
00:46:37.599 --> 00:46:42.159
<v Speaker 3>look for. And one particular idea that's very controversial from

845
00:46:42.159 --> 00:46:45.679
<v Speaker 3>that is this idea of panspermia. Yes, which is the

846
00:46:45.840 --> 00:46:50.119
<v Speaker 3>idea that maybe organisms have hopped from one planet to

847
00:46:50.199 --> 00:46:53.920
<v Speaker 3>another through asteroids. Oh, that experiment I mentioned about getting

848
00:46:53.920 --> 00:46:56.559
<v Speaker 3>shot out of guns, that was the motivation for that.

849
00:46:56.639 --> 00:47:01.719
<v Speaker 3>They wanted to determine if they could withstand an impact

850
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:05.920
<v Speaker 3>similar to a meteor hitting a planet, and the answer was.

851
00:47:05.920 --> 00:47:07.119
<v Speaker 4>Ohellma, okay.

852
00:47:07.800 --> 00:47:09.960
<v Speaker 2>Carlos Alvarez wants to know.

853
00:47:10.639 --> 00:47:12.400
<v Speaker 8>I read a few years ago that some of them

854
00:47:12.440 --> 00:47:15.960
<v Speaker 8>were sent in a lunar module to the Moon and

855
00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:18.440
<v Speaker 8>it crashed and now they're spilled somewhere on the.

856
00:47:18.360 --> 00:47:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Moon, but an engine fold caused it to crash, scattering

857
00:47:22.400 --> 00:47:23.880
<v Speaker 2>into thousands of pieces.

858
00:47:24.960 --> 00:47:28.519
<v Speaker 8>It makes me think of the times we have moved

859
00:47:28.559 --> 00:47:31.920
<v Speaker 8>species around on this planet and created a whole new nightmare.

860
00:47:32.400 --> 00:47:35.719
<v Speaker 8>What are the chances that these are surviving there, and

861
00:47:36.599 --> 00:47:39.000
<v Speaker 8>what are the unknown things that we may have just

862
00:47:39.079 --> 00:47:41.280
<v Speaker 8>done to the Moon. You know, one day in a

863
00:47:41.320 --> 00:47:43.400
<v Speaker 8>million years, it's just covered in Tarti grades.

864
00:47:45.239 --> 00:47:48.400
<v Speaker 3>Yeah. You know, when I heard about that, I thought

865
00:47:48.400 --> 00:47:50.440
<v Speaker 3>it was a joke. You know, it was like an

866
00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:53.719
<v Speaker 3>Israeli space mission sent a liner module the Moon and

867
00:47:53.719 --> 00:47:55.800
<v Speaker 3>it crashed and it had Tarti grades on it. I

868
00:47:55.840 --> 00:47:58.320
<v Speaker 3>was thinking, Okay, yeah, what's the punchline. But it was real.

869
00:47:58.840 --> 00:48:04.039
<v Speaker 3>It was real, and yeah, I was kind of shocked,

870
00:48:04.039 --> 00:48:06.599
<v Speaker 3>and my colleagues and I talked about this. I don't

871
00:48:06.679 --> 00:48:09.440
<v Speaker 3>understand the motivation. They had several things in the payload

872
00:48:09.519 --> 00:48:13.360
<v Speaker 3>of that module that were Earth relics, including Tarte grades

873
00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:18.199
<v Speaker 3>in cryptobiosis, and I never quite understood the logic behind

874
00:48:18.199 --> 00:48:20.880
<v Speaker 3>that and what they were planning on with that, but yeah,

875
00:48:20.880 --> 00:48:23.880
<v Speaker 3>it crashed. The people that studied did the shooting out

876
00:48:23.920 --> 00:48:26.559
<v Speaker 3>of the gun thing said they wouldn't even have survived

877
00:48:26.599 --> 00:48:29.559
<v Speaker 3>that crash, much less a meteor hitting a planet, so

878
00:48:29.599 --> 00:48:32.440
<v Speaker 3>they don't think that they survived. There's also no atmosphere

879
00:48:32.440 --> 00:48:34.400
<v Speaker 3>on the Moon and so there's really no way for

880
00:48:34.440 --> 00:48:38.239
<v Speaker 3>them to come out of cryptobiosis on the Moon. So

881
00:48:38.880 --> 00:48:41.719
<v Speaker 3>if they did survive that impact, I think they could

882
00:48:41.719 --> 00:48:43.840
<v Speaker 3>still be in cryptobiosis, but there's no way for them

883
00:48:43.840 --> 00:48:47.400
<v Speaker 3>to come out of cryptobiosis. It does raise, I think,

884
00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:52.800
<v Speaker 3>a legitimate, real ethical question about sending Earth organisms to

885
00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:55.039
<v Speaker 3>other places. And in fact, there was a lot of

886
00:48:55.079 --> 00:48:59.360
<v Speaker 3>discussion about that, and the authors of that study, the

887
00:49:00.360 --> 00:49:04.400
<v Speaker 3>Lunar module study, said, well, we know that that's a problem.

888
00:49:04.440 --> 00:49:07.039
<v Speaker 3>We wouldn't do that any place that actually had an

889
00:49:07.039 --> 00:49:10.880
<v Speaker 3>atmosphere where they could survive. So why they did it

890
00:49:10.920 --> 00:49:12.840
<v Speaker 3>to the Moon I don't know still, but they did.

891
00:49:13.760 --> 00:49:15.760
<v Speaker 2>Let's say that some sprinklers went off on the Moon

892
00:49:15.880 --> 00:49:18.239
<v Speaker 2>and they did rehydrate and they came out of it,

893
00:49:18.639 --> 00:49:21.239
<v Speaker 2>and all there was to eat were the other tartar grades.

894
00:49:21.679 --> 00:49:23.719
<v Speaker 2>Do they ever cannibalize?

895
00:49:23.920 --> 00:49:27.000
<v Speaker 3>They don't cannibalize. Okay, but big ones eat smaller ones,

896
00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:29.880
<v Speaker 3>and so yeah, they could, they could. Yeah.

897
00:49:30.000 --> 00:49:32.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes. If you saw a headline this week such as

898
00:49:32.639 --> 00:49:36.119
<v Speaker 2>spiders on Mars fully awakened on Earth for first time

899
00:49:36.280 --> 00:49:39.760
<v Speaker 2>and scientists are shrieking with joy, don't take that clickbait

900
00:49:39.960 --> 00:49:43.440
<v Speaker 2>or just do, but note that it's about cracks on

901
00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:46.639
<v Speaker 2>the surface of Mars that look like spiders from Afar.

902
00:49:47.039 --> 00:49:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Astrogeologists have figured out why they happened, hence these things

903
00:49:50.920 --> 00:49:54.480
<v Speaker 2>are called are aneaform terrain named after spiders, but alas

904
00:49:54.719 --> 00:49:57.320
<v Speaker 2>there are no real giant spiders on Mars, although we

905
00:49:57.360 --> 00:50:00.360
<v Speaker 2>do have an entire astrobiology episode with doctor Kevin Hand,

906
00:50:00.519 --> 00:50:03.639
<v Speaker 2>who's a NASA researcher looking for life on the Jupiter

907
00:50:03.719 --> 00:50:06.440
<v Speaker 2>moon Europa. We'll link in the show notes. But on

908
00:50:06.480 --> 00:50:09.559
<v Speaker 2>the topic of animals that will be astronauts, Katie Oldman

909
00:50:09.719 --> 00:50:13.519
<v Speaker 2>first time question asker asked, could should we have we

910
00:50:13.719 --> 00:50:16.840
<v Speaker 2>already tried sending them into space? And other patrons such

911
00:50:16.880 --> 00:50:20.199
<v Speaker 2>as Gwen Hughes, Reuben Nikitchribitz, Brian Smith, Mary and Rachel Guthrie,

912
00:50:20.239 --> 00:50:23.480
<v Speaker 2>Christian Fuller, Aaron Sorens and Zephyr and Sidney Kaneing in

913
00:50:23.639 --> 00:50:26.440
<v Speaker 2>Sydney's words, said, wait, how did we figure out the

914
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:29.119
<v Speaker 2>space thing? It's a good question. I thought that they

915
00:50:29.239 --> 00:50:33.280
<v Speaker 2>just went into cryptobiosis, but how did they survive space exposure?

916
00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:38.199
<v Speaker 3>That is, yeah, that's what launched them into fame. Ah,

917
00:50:42.039 --> 00:50:45.960
<v Speaker 3>they did indeed survive space exposure. So what happened is

918
00:50:46.239 --> 00:50:49.760
<v Speaker 3>there were four different experiments that were done that included

919
00:50:49.800 --> 00:50:52.480
<v Speaker 3>tartar grades in space. In two thousand and seven there

920
00:50:52.559 --> 00:50:55.840
<v Speaker 3>was a photon M three satellite mission that had three

921
00:50:55.960 --> 00:50:59.840
<v Speaker 3>different modules on board with tartar grades, and then in

922
00:51:00.000 --> 00:51:02.199
<v Speaker 3>twenty eleven there was a fourth one that went up

923
00:51:02.280 --> 00:51:07.559
<v Speaker 3>to the International Space Station and collectively they had five

924
00:51:07.599 --> 00:51:11.760
<v Speaker 3>different species of tartar grades on board. They had eggs,

925
00:51:12.400 --> 00:51:15.760
<v Speaker 3>animals in cryptobiosis, and in one study they actually had

926
00:51:15.800 --> 00:51:20.840
<v Speaker 3>active animals not in cryptobiosis, and they exposed them to

927
00:51:20.920 --> 00:51:24.400
<v Speaker 3>different aspects of space, brought them back to Earth, looked

928
00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:29.719
<v Speaker 3>at how many survived, and what they found collectively is

929
00:51:29.760 --> 00:51:35.239
<v Speaker 3>that when the animals were exposed to the microgravity and

930
00:51:35.280 --> 00:51:38.199
<v Speaker 3>the cosmic radiation of space, they survived really really well,

931
00:51:38.719 --> 00:51:42.639
<v Speaker 3>including the ones that were not in cryptobiosis. And that

932
00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:48.000
<v Speaker 3>was huge news because no animals have ever survived space exposure.

933
00:51:48.039 --> 00:51:49.800
<v Speaker 3>Of course, that'd be a really nasty experiment to do

934
00:51:49.840 --> 00:51:53.320
<v Speaker 3>to you know, little space monkey or something. But it

935
00:51:53.360 --> 00:51:56.400
<v Speaker 3>was huge news, a lot of press about it, very

936
00:51:56.400 --> 00:51:59.679
<v Speaker 3>spectacular results, but there's a lot of fine print that

937
00:51:59.760 --> 00:52:03.519
<v Speaker 3>isn't ever talked about. And the fine print is that

938
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:06.039
<v Speaker 3>it wasn't like they had them on little microtethers on

939
00:52:06.079 --> 00:52:08.079
<v Speaker 3>space walks and they brought them back into the spaceship.

940
00:52:08.360 --> 00:52:10.880
<v Speaker 3>They weren't exposed to all aspects of space. They were

941
00:52:11.000 --> 00:52:14.920
<v Speaker 3>exposed to some aspects of space. They were enclosed cases,

942
00:52:15.000 --> 00:52:19.840
<v Speaker 3>so in all of those experiments they were in temperature

943
00:52:19.840 --> 00:52:23.159
<v Speaker 3>controlled cases, and so they didn't get exposed to the

944
00:52:23.239 --> 00:52:28.880
<v Speaker 3>huge temperature fluctuations of space. And in the case of

945
00:52:29.039 --> 00:52:34.239
<v Speaker 3>the active animals, they were not exposed to the vacuum

946
00:52:34.280 --> 00:52:38.639
<v Speaker 3>of space, for example, And in all of them except

947
00:52:38.679 --> 00:52:43.199
<v Speaker 3>one they were protected from UV radiation, and in the

948
00:52:43.239 --> 00:52:46.599
<v Speaker 3>one in which they were exposed to full spectrum UV,

949
00:52:47.039 --> 00:52:50.840
<v Speaker 3>they died pretty quickly. So the headline was Tarti Gray's

950
00:52:50.960 --> 00:52:55.000
<v Speaker 3>survive exposure to space, but the details are they could

951
00:52:55.039 --> 00:52:58.079
<v Speaker 3>handle some aspects of space, which is shocking and amazing,

952
00:52:58.400 --> 00:53:01.119
<v Speaker 3>but they didn't handle to total exposure. To space.

953
00:53:01.679 --> 00:53:05.960
<v Speaker 2>So the hard vacuum of outer space survivable for many

954
00:53:06.039 --> 00:53:09.079
<v Speaker 2>of the tartar grade astronauts. Now the vacuum plus the

955
00:53:09.119 --> 00:53:14.320
<v Speaker 2>solar radiation, which is true to space less survivable. Ah okay,

956
00:53:14.639 --> 00:53:18.480
<v Speaker 2>Well that demystifies them. Yeah, and also probably will be

957
00:53:18.639 --> 00:53:20.519
<v Speaker 2>very helpful in busting the flip flame that they are

958
00:53:20.559 --> 00:53:24.599
<v Speaker 2>aliens exactly exactly. I like the idea too that people

959
00:53:24.639 --> 00:53:31.000
<v Speaker 2>here that octopuses are so out there and interesting they

960
00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:33.119
<v Speaker 2>must also be aliens. I like the idea that an

961
00:53:33.119 --> 00:53:36.719
<v Speaker 2>octopus just has armloads of tartar grades. They're careening on

962
00:53:36.880 --> 00:53:40.000
<v Speaker 2>an astroid, they crash in and they're like, what's up?

963
00:53:41.360 --> 00:53:44.119
<v Speaker 2>We heard the bugs of it up. So if tartar

964
00:53:44.159 --> 00:53:48.199
<v Speaker 2>grades and the world in miniature interests, you consider getting

965
00:53:48.199 --> 00:53:51.400
<v Speaker 2>your hooks into this research. And on that note, Petron

966
00:53:51.440 --> 00:53:53.679
<v Speaker 2>Scarlet p wanted to know what are the claw looking

967
00:53:53.760 --> 00:53:56.840
<v Speaker 2>things on the tartar grade's feet and what are they for?

968
00:53:57.239 --> 00:53:59.039
<v Speaker 2>And eating dog hair for a living ast what are

969
00:53:59.079 --> 00:54:02.320
<v Speaker 2>those flipper looking things on their stumps used for? And

970
00:54:02.440 --> 00:54:04.440
<v Speaker 2>this topic was also on the minds of Jacolin Church

971
00:54:04.480 --> 00:54:08.760
<v Speaker 2>Flush first Odoctopus Spella, average Pie, Susan Lynn, and Addie

972
00:54:08.800 --> 00:54:12.559
<v Speaker 2>Capello said, they're like water wombats. Look at those talons.

973
00:54:13.280 --> 00:54:15.159
<v Speaker 2>What are those claws on their feet for?

974
00:54:15.360 --> 00:54:19.559
<v Speaker 3>Actually, yeah, the ones that have claws, they use them

975
00:54:19.559 --> 00:54:24.480
<v Speaker 3>to hold onto the sediment. They're crawling around, grasping hold

976
00:54:24.480 --> 00:54:25.960
<v Speaker 3>of the sediment. The ones on the fourth pair of

977
00:54:26.039 --> 00:54:28.119
<v Speaker 3>legs that are turned around backwards that I mentioned before,

978
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:31.800
<v Speaker 3>in a lot of cases, they use those like prehensile organs.

979
00:54:31.800 --> 00:54:33.679
<v Speaker 3>They hold on with those, and then when they want

980
00:54:33.719 --> 00:54:35.079
<v Speaker 3>to move they let go of those and.

981
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:37.519
<v Speaker 2>Crawl with the first three pairs of legs, kind of

982
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:39.480
<v Speaker 2>like a rear wheel drive, I guess.

983
00:54:39.920 --> 00:54:43.159
<v Speaker 3>But not all targer grades have claws, and especially the

984
00:54:43.199 --> 00:54:47.719
<v Speaker 3>marine ones are really hyper diverse and have a whole

985
00:54:48.440 --> 00:54:53.239
<v Speaker 3>array of different feet type, including some that have fingers

986
00:54:53.280 --> 00:54:57.599
<v Speaker 3>that end in adhesive pads, and all kinds of really

987
00:54:57.840 --> 00:55:01.440
<v Speaker 3>cool differences. And so that's again the problem of kind

988
00:55:01.480 --> 00:55:03.639
<v Speaker 3>of thinking about the kind that floats around on the

989
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:04.400
<v Speaker 3>internet too much.

990
00:55:04.480 --> 00:55:08.599
<v Speaker 2>M Amber Panita and Sirih Grossman. First time question asker

991
00:55:08.719 --> 00:55:11.960
<v Speaker 2>wanted to know about their number of legs. Siri asked,

992
00:55:12.079 --> 00:55:15.880
<v Speaker 2>eight legs. Why is that some primal, perfect optimal walking

993
00:55:15.960 --> 00:55:16.719
<v Speaker 2>number of legs?

994
00:55:19.920 --> 00:55:24.320
<v Speaker 3>Well, they have five body segments and there's a leg

995
00:55:24.400 --> 00:55:26.840
<v Speaker 3>for each of the segments except for the head. And

996
00:55:27.320 --> 00:55:30.119
<v Speaker 3>there's some really cool evo devo studies that found out

997
00:55:30.159 --> 00:55:35.039
<v Speaker 3>that what happened as they got miniaturized from ancestral lobopodians,

998
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:38.719
<v Speaker 3>which were macroscopic, is that the middle segments of the

999
00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:42.239
<v Speaker 3>body got chopped out and left the other segments, and

1000
00:55:42.280 --> 00:55:47.280
<v Speaker 3>so they evolved from multi legged more like millipede like things. Oh,

1001
00:55:48.039 --> 00:55:50.360
<v Speaker 3>I mean, those are arthropods with jointed legs, but they

1002
00:55:50.360 --> 00:55:53.639
<v Speaker 3>look kind of like lobi. They look like caterpillars with

1003
00:55:53.679 --> 00:55:58.079
<v Speaker 3>loby legs. And so as those segments got cut out,

1004
00:55:58.559 --> 00:56:01.519
<v Speaker 3>five segments were left for one pair of leg for

1005
00:56:01.800 --> 00:56:03.199
<v Speaker 3>all the segments except for the head.

1006
00:56:04.239 --> 00:56:06.679
<v Speaker 2>Well, Sophie Develle, first time question asker, says, I'm a

1007
00:56:06.760 --> 00:56:08.639
<v Speaker 2>dentist and I would love to note if they have teeth,

1008
00:56:08.719 --> 00:56:09.920
<v Speaker 2>and if they do, what are they like?

1009
00:56:10.079 --> 00:56:14.039
<v Speaker 3>A good question. Some do have teeth, and they're thickenings

1010
00:56:14.840 --> 00:56:19.599
<v Speaker 3>around the mouth. The mouth's a circle and there are

1011
00:56:20.159 --> 00:56:25.639
<v Speaker 3>sometimes one, two or three rows of dentate structures that

1012
00:56:25.880 --> 00:56:30.800
<v Speaker 3>poke inward, and so they're kind of laterally oriented around

1013
00:56:30.800 --> 00:56:34.679
<v Speaker 3>this circle and they're poking inward and they probably use

1014
00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:37.239
<v Speaker 3>them for grasping as they try to suck stuff down

1015
00:56:37.280 --> 00:56:38.320
<v Speaker 3>their bugle tube.

1016
00:56:38.559 --> 00:56:41.320
<v Speaker 2>Do they ever suck down any nasties and get food poisoning?

1017
00:56:41.440 --> 00:56:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Frina run Stadler asked what kind of immune system does

1018
00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:47.360
<v Speaker 2>the tartar grate have, and Janie Jones was concerned do

1019
00:56:47.440 --> 00:56:50.599
<v Speaker 2>they get sick? Ali and Julian want to know are

1020
00:56:50.599 --> 00:56:52.679
<v Speaker 2>they affected by bacteria and viruses?

1021
00:56:53.000 --> 00:56:56.800
<v Speaker 3>We know there's some parasitic funguses that have attacked them,

1022
00:56:57.159 --> 00:57:01.440
<v Speaker 3>and I think some other protozoan can't remember which what now.

1023
00:57:02.679 --> 00:57:05.960
<v Speaker 3>And there's some marine ones that have these pouches on

1024
00:57:06.000 --> 00:57:09.400
<v Speaker 3>the head that are packed with bacteria, and apparently they

1025
00:57:09.400 --> 00:57:12.920
<v Speaker 3>have a symbiosis with these bacteria and are using them

1026
00:57:12.960 --> 00:57:18.559
<v Speaker 3>for something presumably maybe chemosynthesis or something like that. Don't

1027
00:57:18.559 --> 00:57:22.079
<v Speaker 3>really know. So somehow they're getting probably getting nutrients from

1028
00:57:22.079 --> 00:57:24.840
<v Speaker 3>these bacteria. Oh, there have been a couple studies of

1029
00:57:26.000 --> 00:57:31.440
<v Speaker 3>tartargrade microbiomes recently, really yeah, and they have found a

1030
00:57:31.440 --> 00:57:33.840
<v Speaker 3>whole series of bacteria and other things that are in

1031
00:57:33.880 --> 00:57:34.639
<v Speaker 3>their guts.

1032
00:57:35.039 --> 00:57:36.920
<v Speaker 4>Oh, that's exciting, But I.

1033
00:57:36.920 --> 00:57:39.840
<v Speaker 3>Don't know about any bacteria that are disease causing.

1034
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:44.360
<v Speaker 2>Speaking of peril sad question, Rebecca, if it's given Povka

1035
00:57:44.599 --> 00:57:48.599
<v Speaker 2>thirty four tricyclecent want to know, in Rebecca's words, are

1036
00:57:48.639 --> 00:57:52.519
<v Speaker 2>they being impacted by climate change? Rising tides lift all

1037
00:57:52.559 --> 00:57:53.280
<v Speaker 2>water bears?

1038
00:57:53.400 --> 00:57:58.039
<v Speaker 4>They ask, hopeful, Yeah, that's hopeful.

1039
00:57:58.440 --> 00:58:02.760
<v Speaker 3>Well, there have been some studies of them being impacted

1040
00:58:02.760 --> 00:58:05.480
<v Speaker 3>by climate change. There's some people doing some really cool

1041
00:58:05.480 --> 00:58:09.400
<v Speaker 3>studies in glaciers, and there are these things called cryoconite holes,

1042
00:58:09.800 --> 00:58:14.559
<v Speaker 3>which are circular tubular holes that form as ice melts

1043
00:58:14.679 --> 00:58:18.079
<v Speaker 3>and then it gathers some gunk in the bottom and

1044
00:58:18.119 --> 00:58:20.920
<v Speaker 3>then some animals colonize it. Not very many, but a

1045
00:58:20.960 --> 00:58:24.960
<v Speaker 3>few things can colonize those croyut nite holes. And they've

1046
00:58:25.000 --> 00:58:28.360
<v Speaker 3>been talking about concerns as the glaciers melt, that is

1047
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:33.000
<v Speaker 3>having potential negative impacts. And this other study recently looked

1048
00:58:33.000 --> 00:58:36.199
<v Speaker 3>at those stylets that I mentioned. The paired stylets have

1049
00:58:36.360 --> 00:58:38.000
<v Speaker 3>calcim carbonate in them, so.

1050
00:58:38.039 --> 00:58:41.000
<v Speaker 2>A reminder, a stylet is like a mouth knife, and

1051
00:58:41.159 --> 00:58:45.039
<v Speaker 2>when tartagrades molt, these fall off and then they just

1052
00:58:45.159 --> 00:58:50.039
<v Speaker 2>secrete new ones with glands near their face opening and.

1053
00:58:50.079 --> 00:58:54.679
<v Speaker 3>Are therefore potentially impacted by acid. And so they have

1054
00:58:54.960 --> 00:58:58.000
<v Speaker 3>looked at whether or not acidic conditions can erode those

1055
00:58:58.880 --> 00:59:04.239
<v Speaker 3>things like in ocean acidification. Perhaps, so there is some

1056
00:59:04.280 --> 00:59:08.519
<v Speaker 3>indication that it could damage things, and that's right now,

1057
00:59:09.039 --> 00:59:11.320
<v Speaker 3>a lab study instead of a field study.

1058
00:59:12.119 --> 00:59:16.480
<v Speaker 2>Susan Mashrak wanted to know. I wonder, since they've survived

1059
00:59:16.519 --> 00:59:19.719
<v Speaker 2>so much, how they'll do with the microplastic crisis we're

1060
00:59:19.760 --> 00:59:24.559
<v Speaker 2>currently in. Did anyone ever find microplastics in their little guts?

1061
00:59:24.599 --> 00:59:27.239
<v Speaker 3>You know, that's a funny question. I just saw a

1062
00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:30.719
<v Speaker 3>paper that was looking at microplastics and microscopic organisms, and

1063
00:59:31.280 --> 00:59:33.519
<v Speaker 3>for some reason, they found them in all kinds of

1064
00:59:33.599 --> 00:59:37.239
<v Speaker 3>other microscopic animals that were in their habitats, but not

1065
00:59:37.360 --> 00:59:40.480
<v Speaker 3>in the tartar grades stop. Somehow they weren't picking up

1066
00:59:40.519 --> 00:59:43.679
<v Speaker 3>the microplastics. It was just one study just came out.

1067
00:59:44.079 --> 00:59:47.480
<v Speaker 3>I have no idea why that was the case, but

1068
00:59:47.639 --> 00:59:50.159
<v Speaker 3>I do think it's possible that they could be picking

1069
00:59:50.159 --> 00:59:52.400
<v Speaker 3>them up. It might be that they because of using

1070
00:59:52.400 --> 00:59:54.719
<v Speaker 3>those stylets, maybe it acts as a filter somehow and

1071
00:59:54.760 --> 00:59:57.119
<v Speaker 3>they can't pick them up. I don't know, but I

1072
00:59:57.159 --> 01:00:00.400
<v Speaker 3>would think that eventually we'll find them in there, as long.

1073
01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:02.239
<v Speaker 2>As we're growing ever more fond of them. What is

1074
01:00:02.280 --> 01:00:05.760
<v Speaker 2>the correct term of endearment? Josie Rutherford asked, some people

1075
01:00:05.800 --> 01:00:10.280
<v Speaker 2>call these water bears, others potato walruss. Is this one

1076
01:00:10.320 --> 01:00:13.840
<v Speaker 2>of those tests where what you see reveals an aspect

1077
01:00:13.880 --> 01:00:17.679
<v Speaker 2>of your deep psyche. Andrew mckelvey's Izzy, Emily heard, Mona

1078
01:00:17.719 --> 01:00:22.400
<v Speaker 2>fin Layson, Emily Venko, and Miranda Panda also had etymological questions,

1079
01:00:22.440 --> 01:00:26.239
<v Speaker 2>as well as Belle Aspiring garbage archaeologists wants to know

1080
01:00:26.559 --> 01:00:29.199
<v Speaker 2>why did the nicknames waterbear and moss piglet? Where do

1081
01:00:29.280 --> 01:00:32.519
<v Speaker 2>those come from? And which would you say is more accurate?

1082
01:00:32.679 --> 01:00:38.760
<v Speaker 3>Ah, moss piglets is not very inclusive. Okay, that's right,

1083
01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:41.880
<v Speaker 3>all of those that live on moss, right, So I

1084
01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:44.559
<v Speaker 3>wouldn't use that term. When you look at tartar grades

1085
01:00:44.599 --> 01:00:47.920
<v Speaker 3>through a microscope, when you look at in that little world,

1086
01:00:47.920 --> 01:00:49.760
<v Speaker 3>you see all these wormy kind of things that move

1087
01:00:49.800 --> 01:00:51.559
<v Speaker 3>in a wormy like fashion. But when you see tarte

1088
01:00:51.599 --> 01:00:54.679
<v Speaker 3>grays move really differently. Right. They're they're kind of wiggling

1089
01:00:54.719 --> 01:00:58.280
<v Speaker 3>their their fat and chubby, and they have these thick

1090
01:00:58.360 --> 01:01:01.079
<v Speaker 3>legs that they're waving gently. Their head moves a little

1091
01:01:01.119 --> 01:01:03.360
<v Speaker 3>bit side to side. Some of them have these big,

1092
01:01:03.400 --> 01:01:07.320
<v Speaker 3>soulful highs, right, so they kind of look mammalian. And

1093
01:01:07.360 --> 01:01:10.280
<v Speaker 3>the very first person who ever described to tartar grade

1094
01:01:10.960 --> 01:01:15.800
<v Speaker 3>was Johann Gutza back in seventeen seventy three, and he,

1095
01:01:16.119 --> 01:01:18.400
<v Speaker 3>in that very first paper ever written on tarta grades,

1096
01:01:18.840 --> 01:01:23.159
<v Speaker 3>thought that they looked like Kleiner Vasserbert little water bears.

1097
01:01:23.480 --> 01:01:26.320
<v Speaker 2>So we have a two part ersonology episode all about bears,

1098
01:01:26.440 --> 01:01:29.320
<v Speaker 2>as well as a carnivore ecology episode with Arthur Ray

1099
01:01:29.360 --> 01:01:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Winn Grant. And yes, they are linked in the show notes.

1100
01:01:32.320 --> 01:01:34.840
<v Speaker 3>So that's the most common common name. By the way,

1101
01:01:34.840 --> 01:01:39.920
<v Speaker 3>there's some pop culture trivia about Gutsa. Yes, tell me

1102
01:01:40.119 --> 01:01:43.400
<v Speaker 3>you ought to know? Yeah, of course, very it's trivial trivia.

1103
01:01:45.039 --> 01:01:49.480
<v Speaker 3>You know the you know the TV show Star Trek Discovery.

1104
01:01:49.599 --> 01:01:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Yes, we had people ask about that. Yeah, we had

1105
01:01:52.920 --> 01:01:56.360
<v Speaker 2>several people ask about this, Okay. Patricia Evans, Daniel Sucher,

1106
01:01:56.400 --> 01:01:58.880
<v Speaker 2>Becky Disasci Segret scientist, and Luna Rose.

1107
01:01:59.519 --> 01:02:03.360
<v Speaker 3>They have character that the crew members call Ripper, and

1108
01:02:03.400 --> 01:02:06.119
<v Speaker 3>it's a human size tartar grade.

1109
01:02:06.199 --> 01:02:20.440
<v Speaker 5>Like alien, Hello, brought you the good stuff.

1110
01:02:20.880 --> 01:02:24.320
<v Speaker 3>And it allows them to do giant hops through the

1111
01:02:24.480 --> 01:02:28.159
<v Speaker 3>universe because, of course it has a symbiotic relationship with

1112
01:02:28.239 --> 01:02:34.159
<v Speaker 3>space Mycelia. Of course, of course, on a side, an

1113
01:02:34.239 --> 01:02:39.880
<v Speaker 3>offshoot of Star Trek Discovery, we learn that ripper preferred

1114
01:02:39.960 --> 01:02:43.199
<v Speaker 3>name is Ephrahim, which is Johann Gutz's middle name.

1115
01:02:44.079 --> 01:02:49.239
<v Speaker 2>Oh that's very sweet. That's so sweet. I love that.

1116
01:02:49.400 --> 01:02:52.880
<v Speaker 3>If you win bar trivia with that question, I want

1117
01:02:52.920 --> 01:02:53.960
<v Speaker 3>half of your winnings.

1118
01:02:57.159 --> 01:02:59.519
<v Speaker 2>I just said that in an episode that went up

1119
01:02:59.519 --> 01:03:03.559
<v Speaker 2>about k waves literally yesterday, I was like, we're winning

1120
01:03:03.639 --> 01:03:07.480
<v Speaker 2>a lot of bars, where's our ten versaid? Also, Paul

1121
01:03:07.599 --> 01:03:10.280
<v Speaker 2>casually mentioned that yes, well, tartar grades are cute, and

1122
01:03:10.320 --> 01:03:14.679
<v Speaker 2>they have cryptobiotic superpowers. Some of them fluoresce in these

1123
01:03:14.800 --> 01:03:18.239
<v Speaker 2>beautiful colors. He calls them disco bears. And one of

1124
01:03:18.280 --> 01:03:23.800
<v Speaker 2>his most recent research projects was exploring autofluorescence in tartar grades,

1125
01:03:23.840 --> 01:03:28.559
<v Speaker 2>which is different from bioluminescence. Apparently autofluorescence happens by absorbing light,

1126
01:03:28.920 --> 01:03:32.440
<v Speaker 2>and then bioluminescence is chemical and caused by an enzyme.

1127
01:03:32.679 --> 01:03:35.000
<v Speaker 2>But we could go on and on. Let's get to

1128
01:03:35.280 --> 01:03:39.280
<v Speaker 2>how do you meet one and hopefully befriend a tartar grade?

1129
01:03:39.679 --> 01:03:43.719
<v Speaker 2>So many people we gotta know. How do you find them?

1130
01:03:43.760 --> 01:03:47.559
<v Speaker 2>I get them? How do we look at tartar grades?

1131
01:03:47.639 --> 01:03:48.320
<v Speaker 2>How do we do it?

1132
01:03:48.440 --> 01:03:53.199
<v Speaker 3>Now that I can help you with. But basically you

1133
01:03:53.199 --> 01:03:57.400
<v Speaker 3>gotta have a microscope how strong you know, even a

1134
01:03:57.480 --> 01:04:01.599
<v Speaker 3>forty power dissecting scope and see them and tell that

1135
01:04:01.639 --> 01:04:05.000
<v Speaker 3>they're tartar grades. You can't like look at fine structures

1136
01:04:05.039 --> 01:04:08.880
<v Speaker 3>to identify them, but you can tell that they're tartar

1137
01:04:08.960 --> 01:04:13.239
<v Speaker 3>grades just with a simple, inexpensive microscope. And so what

1138
01:04:13.280 --> 01:04:17.440
<v Speaker 3>we do is we make these pipe plates, sieves, Barreman's funnels,

1139
01:04:17.480 --> 01:04:20.639
<v Speaker 3>they're called. And so you take a styrofoam plate, you

1140
01:04:20.719 --> 01:04:23.000
<v Speaker 3>put another one on top of it, and cut a

1141
01:04:23.000 --> 01:04:25.199
<v Speaker 3>hole out of the bottom and put a screen on it,

1142
01:04:25.480 --> 01:04:27.719
<v Speaker 3>and then put a tissue paper over that, and then

1143
01:04:27.800 --> 01:04:30.519
<v Speaker 3>crumble up a moss all over that and then fill

1144
01:04:30.519 --> 01:04:32.760
<v Speaker 3>it with water. And it helps if you shine a

1145
01:04:32.800 --> 01:04:34.960
<v Speaker 3>light on them, and what happens is they move away

1146
01:04:34.960 --> 01:04:37.360
<v Speaker 3>from the light and away from the heat, and they

1147
01:04:37.400 --> 01:04:40.320
<v Speaker 3>go down through the tissue paper. The animals go through

1148
01:04:40.320 --> 01:04:43.320
<v Speaker 3>the tissue paper and gather down in the water on

1149
01:04:43.400 --> 01:04:46.800
<v Speaker 3>the bottom pie plate. And then you can just pour

1150
01:04:46.840 --> 01:04:49.000
<v Speaker 3>that off into a petri dish and you can find them.

1151
01:04:50.320 --> 01:04:53.280
<v Speaker 2>So, yes, this is called a Bareman funnel. And there

1152
01:04:53.320 --> 01:04:56.320
<v Speaker 2>are a lot of ways and materials you can diy this,

1153
01:04:56.840 --> 01:05:00.719
<v Speaker 2>including just using a regular funnel with a little tubing

1154
01:05:00.880 --> 01:05:02.599
<v Speaker 2>to kind of stop it at the end, make a

1155
01:05:02.679 --> 01:05:04.559
<v Speaker 2>ja at the end of it. You can just put

1156
01:05:04.599 --> 01:05:08.639
<v Speaker 2>like a coffee filter or pantyhose or a cheese cloth

1157
01:05:08.719 --> 01:05:10.719
<v Speaker 2>at the bottom of the funnel. You wet your moss

1158
01:05:10.760 --> 01:05:12.320
<v Speaker 2>so that you have like an inch of that kind

1159
01:05:12.320 --> 01:05:16.119
<v Speaker 2>of soupy water at the bottom, and sixteen or so

1160
01:05:16.320 --> 01:05:19.639
<v Speaker 2>hours later your critters will move away from the light

1161
01:05:19.719 --> 01:05:22.199
<v Speaker 2>and through the filter and into that tubing. So then

1162
01:05:22.239 --> 01:05:24.000
<v Speaker 2>you could take that and then you can see them

1163
01:05:24.039 --> 01:05:26.599
<v Speaker 2>pretty cleanly in a dish under the microscope.

1164
01:05:26.719 --> 01:05:31.440
<v Speaker 3>And if you look in mosses, lichens, leaf, litter, soil

1165
01:05:31.920 --> 01:05:33.800
<v Speaker 3>grit in your gutter, they will be there.

1166
01:05:34.480 --> 01:05:38.400
<v Speaker 2>No, so forty power is enough. Some of them are

1167
01:05:38.519 --> 01:05:41.519
<v Speaker 2>look transparent, So do you kind of get an eye

1168
01:05:41.559 --> 01:05:43.960
<v Speaker 2>for it so you don't glaze over them? Or are

1169
01:05:43.960 --> 01:05:44.719
<v Speaker 2>they pretty obvious?

1170
01:05:45.199 --> 01:05:47.239
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, some of them can be very transparent. Some of

1171
01:05:47.239 --> 01:05:49.840
<v Speaker 3>them are very small, very transparent, sometimes rare, so you

1172
01:05:49.840 --> 01:05:53.239
<v Speaker 3>have to be patient. It helps if you have samples

1173
01:05:53.360 --> 01:05:55.119
<v Speaker 3>so the animals are still alive, so you can see

1174
01:05:55.119 --> 01:05:58.079
<v Speaker 3>that movement, because the movement is very characteristic. Nothing else

1175
01:05:58.119 --> 01:05:58.639
<v Speaker 3>moves like that.

1176
01:05:59.159 --> 01:06:00.920
<v Speaker 2>More on those moves in a moment.

1177
01:06:01.440 --> 01:06:04.800
<v Speaker 3>The trick is, once you have them and you found them,

1178
01:06:04.840 --> 01:06:06.920
<v Speaker 3>and if you want to look at them at higher magnification,

1179
01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:09.079
<v Speaker 3>you got to transfer them to a microscope slide and

1180
01:06:09.079 --> 01:06:11.599
<v Speaker 3>look at a high powered microscope. And to do that

1181
01:06:12.199 --> 01:06:15.199
<v Speaker 3>you have to have like some kind of permanent mounting medium,

1182
01:06:15.599 --> 01:06:18.719
<v Speaker 3>and when you do that, you can't transfer water into it.

1183
01:06:19.039 --> 01:06:22.920
<v Speaker 3>So what we have is tiny little tartar grade lassos

1184
01:06:23.440 --> 01:06:26.239
<v Speaker 3>and we can flick them up, catch them on the lasso,

1185
01:06:26.320 --> 01:06:29.719
<v Speaker 3>and then transfer them over to the mounting medium and.

1186
01:06:29.679 --> 01:06:32.519
<v Speaker 2>Do they perish in the process, Yes?

1187
01:06:33.000 --> 01:06:34.840
<v Speaker 4>Probably? Okay, that's free.

1188
01:06:35.199 --> 01:06:39.079
<v Speaker 2>Can you describe that locomotion that is not computer generated?

1189
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:42.800
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, So they all four legs are constantly moving, and

1190
01:06:42.880 --> 01:06:44.280
<v Speaker 3>especially if you have them on a petri dish, so

1191
01:06:44.320 --> 01:06:46.760
<v Speaker 3>they can't grab hold of something, they're kind of laying

1192
01:06:46.760 --> 01:06:49.920
<v Speaker 3>on their backs, kind of just in one spot, flailing

1193
01:06:49.960 --> 01:06:53.960
<v Speaker 3>their legs and so they're they're moving their legs and

1194
01:06:54.000 --> 01:06:56.480
<v Speaker 3>they all are moving kind of at their own rate,

1195
01:06:56.559 --> 01:06:58.599
<v Speaker 3>so they're not synchronized or anything. They're just kind of

1196
01:06:58.599 --> 01:07:02.239
<v Speaker 3>waving around and then the heads moving side to side slowly,

1197
01:07:03.320 --> 01:07:06.400
<v Speaker 3>and so they just immediately look like a little bear

1198
01:07:07.199 --> 01:07:08.840
<v Speaker 3>with eight legs instead of four.

1199
01:07:10.199 --> 01:07:12.239
<v Speaker 2>With all of this love for tartar grades, because we

1200
01:07:12.280 --> 01:07:15.480
<v Speaker 2>love them so much, there must be something about your

1201
01:07:15.559 --> 01:07:18.519
<v Speaker 2>job as a tartar gradologist that sucks, or something about

1202
01:07:18.599 --> 01:07:23.800
<v Speaker 2>tartar grades that maybe gets your goat anything bad about

1203
01:07:23.800 --> 01:07:26.199
<v Speaker 2>your job, we will ask the best thing.

1204
01:07:26.840 --> 01:07:32.320
<v Speaker 3>Okay, let's see. I think one thing about studying tartar

1205
01:07:32.360 --> 01:07:35.400
<v Speaker 3>grades is that sometimes it can be dismissed by some

1206
01:07:35.440 --> 01:07:38.800
<v Speaker 3>people because they're like a niche animal, you know, they're

1207
01:07:38.800 --> 01:07:41.000
<v Speaker 3>they're like, why would you study a little critter like that?

1208
01:07:41.320 --> 01:07:43.239
<v Speaker 3>You know, it's not it doesn't have human impact. So

1209
01:07:43.239 --> 01:07:45.840
<v Speaker 3>some there's a little bit of that, Oh they're so cute.

1210
01:07:46.320 --> 01:07:47.960
<v Speaker 3>It's kind of like, oh, you're doing that cute kind

1211
01:07:47.960 --> 01:07:51.519
<v Speaker 3>of stuff, So there's a little bit of that maybe. Otherwise,

1212
01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:54.039
<v Speaker 3>I'm not sure I would have studied tartar grades early

1213
01:07:54.079 --> 01:07:56.920
<v Speaker 3>in my career because I don't think I would have

1214
01:07:57.000 --> 01:08:00.599
<v Speaker 3>sat at a microscope that long. You know, there's the

1215
01:08:00.639 --> 01:08:03.320
<v Speaker 3>work for tartar grade ologists is to go out in

1216
01:08:03.360 --> 01:08:06.320
<v Speaker 3>the field one day and then you have weeks and

1217
01:08:06.360 --> 01:08:09.039
<v Speaker 3>weeks of lab work to do and microscopy to do.

1218
01:08:09.599 --> 01:08:14.119
<v Speaker 3>So you gotta be willing and interested in microscopes and

1219
01:08:14.320 --> 01:08:16.439
<v Speaker 3>be willing to sit in a lab in a microscope

1220
01:08:16.840 --> 01:08:20.000
<v Speaker 3>to study them. It's not like going to the Serengetti

1221
01:08:20.079 --> 01:08:22.680
<v Speaker 3>and you know, watching tartar grades clash into one another

1222
01:08:22.760 --> 01:08:25.319
<v Speaker 3>and that kind of thing. It doesn't you know.

1223
01:08:27.239 --> 01:08:29.840
<v Speaker 2>Do you have playlists in the lab like you're just

1224
01:08:30.039 --> 01:08:31.920
<v Speaker 2>jamming out? Do you listen to books on tape?

1225
01:08:32.319 --> 01:08:34.520
<v Speaker 3>Yeah? I have all kinds of playlists. There's nothing tartar

1226
01:08:34.560 --> 01:08:35.560
<v Speaker 3>grade specific.

1227
01:08:35.640 --> 01:08:40.399
<v Speaker 2>Though someone did ask about Cosmo shell Drake speaking of music,

1228
01:08:41.239 --> 01:08:44.760
<v Speaker 2>how accurate is the song tartar Grade song by Cosmo Shelldrakes.

1229
01:08:44.920 --> 01:08:50.279
<v Speaker 3>My sall my liquid and lets myself try out our

1230
01:08:50.479 --> 01:08:51.560
<v Speaker 3>friv and.

1231
01:08:51.680 --> 01:08:58.199
<v Speaker 2>Sleep LEXI gotshl emmett Wald both asked and dig rode

1232
01:08:58.199 --> 01:09:01.800
<v Speaker 2>in not a question, but I ironically woke up with

1233
01:09:01.920 --> 01:09:04.199
<v Speaker 2>Cosmo shell drakes tartar Grade song stuck in my head

1234
01:09:04.199 --> 01:09:07.600
<v Speaker 2>this morning. Dig cosmically connected. We're going to have to

1235
01:09:07.640 --> 01:09:09.399
<v Speaker 2>add it to your playlist no matter what.

1236
01:09:09.680 --> 01:09:11.359
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, we need that, and I've heard it, but it's

1237
01:09:11.399 --> 01:09:13.239
<v Speaker 3>been a long time since I've heard it. My favorite

1238
01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:15.960
<v Speaker 3>tartar grade song is won by Mal Webb, who's an

1239
01:09:15.960 --> 01:09:18.319
<v Speaker 3>Australian guy that does all of his music by mouth

1240
01:09:18.399 --> 01:09:24.119
<v Speaker 3>sounds I wish and I'd be comfy and awhere. I

1241
01:09:24.119 --> 01:09:28.319
<v Speaker 3>think it's hilarious and it's very accurate really in terms

1242
01:09:28.319 --> 01:09:32.479
<v Speaker 3>of he talks about centuries of happy dozing and I

1243
01:09:32.560 --> 01:09:34.439
<v Speaker 3>want to be a tartar grade.

1244
01:09:35.520 --> 01:09:38.039
<v Speaker 2>I haven't blame them, but of course, now that we

1245
01:09:38.119 --> 01:09:39.960
<v Speaker 2>know the toughest thing, what is the best thing about

1246
01:09:40.000 --> 01:09:42.399
<v Speaker 2>tartar grades. What's the best thing about being a tartargardologist?

1247
01:09:43.600 --> 01:09:46.359
<v Speaker 2>You have such a cool job and life.

1248
01:09:46.680 --> 01:09:50.600
<v Speaker 3>Well, the best thing is that they are charismatic and

1249
01:09:50.640 --> 01:09:53.279
<v Speaker 3>so people like them, and they've gotten to be famous.

1250
01:09:53.319 --> 01:09:55.520
<v Speaker 3>They weren't famous when I started studying them, and so

1251
01:09:55.600 --> 01:09:58.359
<v Speaker 3>that was kind of just an accident that they survived

1252
01:09:58.439 --> 01:10:03.319
<v Speaker 3>space exposure and got famous because of that. And that's

1253
01:10:03.359 --> 01:10:06.239
<v Speaker 3>really it's fun because people know about them now and

1254
01:10:06.279 --> 01:10:09.119
<v Speaker 3>so people want to know about them, and that's not

1255
01:10:09.159 --> 01:10:11.800
<v Speaker 3>true for most microscopic life. And it's useful to me

1256
01:10:11.880 --> 01:10:15.840
<v Speaker 3>because my ulterior motive is for students of all ages,

1257
01:10:15.920 --> 01:10:19.199
<v Speaker 3>is to get people interested in microscopic life because it's

1258
01:10:19.399 --> 01:10:22.279
<v Speaker 3>so abundant and so crazy and so poorly studied. So

1259
01:10:22.479 --> 01:10:24.199
<v Speaker 3>tartar grades are a great hook to do that.

1260
01:10:26.319 --> 01:10:30.199
<v Speaker 2>This has been one of my favorite episodes. I don't

1261
01:10:30.279 --> 01:10:33.399
<v Speaker 2>like to name favorite episodes. Is one of my favorite ever.

1262
01:10:33.600 --> 01:10:37.600
<v Speaker 2>This has been such a wonderful privilege to talk to

1263
01:10:37.600 --> 01:10:40.479
<v Speaker 2>you about tartar grades. I have a feeling that because

1264
01:10:40.520 --> 01:10:43.960
<v Speaker 2>of this, there will be future tartar gradologists. Well. Michelle

1265
01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:47.600
<v Speaker 2>Weldman fellow tartar gredologist. They spent the past year studying

1266
01:10:47.640 --> 01:10:49.920
<v Speaker 2>tartar grades for their masters thesis and they're currently in

1267
01:10:49.920 --> 01:10:52.199
<v Speaker 2>the process of writing up the report for it, so

1268
01:10:53.359 --> 01:10:56.640
<v Speaker 2>I know they have a tartar gradologist to chartgredologists question here.

1269
01:10:56.880 --> 01:11:00.239
<v Speaker 6>So my question for theologists is what they think the

1270
01:11:00.279 --> 01:11:03.239
<v Speaker 6>future of tarte grade research should be or should look like.

1271
01:11:03.840 --> 01:11:05.439
<v Speaker 6>Do I think we need to focus more on their

1272
01:11:05.439 --> 01:11:10.960
<v Speaker 6>distributions and diversities, or their physiological mechanisms that are responsible

1273
01:11:11.000 --> 01:11:14.800
<v Speaker 6>for things like cryptobiosis. I'm so excited that you're finally

1274
01:11:15.079 --> 01:11:18.520
<v Speaker 6>getting a chance to touch up on this topic. It's

1275
01:11:18.520 --> 01:11:23.239
<v Speaker 6>an extremely interesting study. And yeah, I love your podcast

1276
01:11:23.359 --> 01:11:25.199
<v Speaker 6>and really excited for.

1277
01:11:25.159 --> 01:11:28.399
<v Speaker 4>This, would you say, Rochelle Rochelle, Yeah.

1278
01:11:28.479 --> 01:11:31.479
<v Speaker 3>So great question. I'm not sure what it should do.

1279
01:11:31.840 --> 01:11:34.119
<v Speaker 3>I know what it's been doing. I mean the history

1280
01:11:34.159 --> 01:11:37.760
<v Speaker 3>of tartar grade research has changed over time. I think

1281
01:11:37.800 --> 01:11:39.760
<v Speaker 3>as more and more people have started studying Tarte grades

1282
01:11:39.800 --> 01:11:42.720
<v Speaker 3>and as molecular biology has kind of moved into the scene,

1283
01:11:43.079 --> 01:11:47.560
<v Speaker 3>it used to be that a lot of Tartar grade

1284
01:11:47.600 --> 01:11:52.720
<v Speaker 3>researchers were at small colleges doing a lot of natural

1285
01:11:52.760 --> 01:11:55.399
<v Speaker 3>history kind of stuff, taxonomy kind of stuff, a little

1286
01:11:55.399 --> 01:11:58.840
<v Speaker 3>bit of ecology. And part of that was because there

1287
01:11:58.880 --> 01:12:02.199
<v Speaker 3>wasn't a lot of funding for because they're not human pests.

1288
01:12:02.720 --> 01:12:05.399
<v Speaker 3>You know, they're not economically important to humans, which I

1289
01:12:05.399 --> 01:12:06.239
<v Speaker 3>find kind of charming.

1290
01:12:06.319 --> 01:12:10.199
<v Speaker 4>Really, they don't need us, they don't need us.

1291
01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:12.960
<v Speaker 3>It's great. So it was mostly people with small or

1292
01:12:13.000 --> 01:12:16.319
<v Speaker 3>no grants kind of messing around having fun. Now that

1293
01:12:16.399 --> 01:12:19.520
<v Speaker 3>we are learning a lot more about these biochemical toolkit

1294
01:12:19.680 --> 01:12:23.800
<v Speaker 3>for cryptobiosis and possible applications of that, big science is

1295
01:12:23.840 --> 01:12:26.880
<v Speaker 3>taking over. Molecular science, I think, is moving in and

1296
01:12:26.920 --> 01:12:29.760
<v Speaker 3>it's great. I mean, it's opening all kinds of doors.

1297
01:12:30.479 --> 01:12:34.520
<v Speaker 3>So I would fear for this is an old guy

1298
01:12:34.600 --> 01:12:36.760
<v Speaker 3>talk and this is a dinosaur kind of comment, but

1299
01:12:37.239 --> 01:12:39.640
<v Speaker 3>I would fear for us to move all the way

1300
01:12:39.760 --> 01:12:44.039
<v Speaker 3>into the world of molecular biology and forget the field

1301
01:12:44.119 --> 01:12:46.600
<v Speaker 3>natural history, because if you don't know the species and

1302
01:12:46.640 --> 01:12:48.760
<v Speaker 3>where they live, and what they're doing, you can't connect

1303
01:12:48.800 --> 01:12:52.640
<v Speaker 3>it to real world stuff. So I hope we continue

1304
01:12:52.680 --> 01:12:55.000
<v Speaker 3>that we've that is a problem. There's not a whole

1305
01:12:55.039 --> 01:12:58.479
<v Speaker 3>lot of tart of grade ologists who are doing things

1306
01:12:58.520 --> 01:13:01.520
<v Speaker 3>that are ecology related natural history related anymore.

1307
01:13:01.920 --> 01:13:06.159
<v Speaker 2>If someone decides tartar grades are their destiny, should they

1308
01:13:06.199 --> 01:13:08.520
<v Speaker 2>just google how to become a tartar gradologist?

1309
01:13:09.359 --> 01:13:11.520
<v Speaker 3>Now they can contact me, email me. I'll help you.

1310
01:13:12.239 --> 01:13:14.960
<v Speaker 3>I'm always wanting more people to study. We have very

1311
01:13:14.960 --> 01:13:18.000
<v Speaker 3>few people that are studying them, and especially doing the

1312
01:13:18.079 --> 01:13:21.439
<v Speaker 3>natural history kind of stuff us old timers do. So

1313
01:13:21.960 --> 01:13:25.600
<v Speaker 3>I help anybody that contacts me, I help them get started.

1314
01:13:26.560 --> 01:13:33.319
<v Speaker 2>Watch out watcher in box, so ask terrific people tartagrad

1315
01:13:33.319 --> 01:13:37.239
<v Speaker 2>iological questions and actually, wait one more. Okay, what is

1316
01:13:37.239 --> 01:13:40.239
<v Speaker 2>Paul's favorite species of tartar grade among the numerous out there.

1317
01:13:40.279 --> 01:13:41.920
<v Speaker 2>He told me in a note later that it's the

1318
01:13:42.039 --> 01:13:48.319
<v Speaker 2>marine tartar grade Tenarctis bubble Ubus tenarctis bubble ubus, real name,

1319
01:13:48.600 --> 01:13:51.880
<v Speaker 2>And in his words, it has a cluster of balloons

1320
01:13:52.039 --> 01:13:54.640
<v Speaker 2>growing out of its butt. And I look this up

1321
01:13:54.680 --> 01:13:58.159
<v Speaker 2>and truly it is a little idy bitty creature trailing

1322
01:13:58.319 --> 01:14:01.319
<v Speaker 2>what looks like a handful of balloon like imagine of

1323
01:14:01.359 --> 01:14:04.319
<v Speaker 2>the house from up was microscopic and it was a

1324
01:14:04.359 --> 01:14:08.279
<v Speaker 2>water bear instead of a house balloons out his butt. Paul,

1325
01:14:08.680 --> 01:14:11.199
<v Speaker 2>You're a treasure. We adore you to find out more

1326
01:14:11.239 --> 01:14:13.840
<v Speaker 2>about Paul's work. We have linked to it in the

1327
01:14:13.840 --> 01:14:16.840
<v Speaker 2>show notes, as well as two Smologies, which is our

1328
01:14:16.880 --> 01:14:19.199
<v Speaker 2>spinoffs show that is safe for kids. There's also a

1329
01:14:19.239 --> 01:14:21.840
<v Speaker 2>link to Zercees dot org and so many other episodes

1330
01:14:21.840 --> 01:14:24.119
<v Speaker 2>you might like, as well as to our Patreon so

1331
01:14:24.159 --> 01:14:26.600
<v Speaker 2>you can submit questions yourself, and there are links to

1332
01:14:26.640 --> 01:14:29.960
<v Speaker 2>our social media. We are at Ologies on Instagram and X.

1333
01:14:30.000 --> 01:14:32.800
<v Speaker 2>I'm at Ali Ward It's just one L and Ali

1334
01:14:32.920 --> 01:14:36.600
<v Speaker 2>on Instagram and X as well. Aaron Talbert Adminsiologies podcast

1335
01:14:36.600 --> 01:14:39.079
<v Speaker 2>Facebook group and has also been my bff since we

1336
01:14:39.079 --> 01:14:42.920
<v Speaker 2>were four, so we have slurged around many algae filled

1337
01:14:43.039 --> 01:14:46.319
<v Speaker 2>ditches together among so many tartar grades. Thank you Erin

1338
01:14:46.319 --> 01:14:49.720
<v Speaker 2>for being my partner that Aveline Malick makes our professional transcripts.

1339
01:14:49.760 --> 01:14:52.800
<v Speaker 2>Noel Dilworth is our wonderful scheduling producer and Susan Hale

1340
01:14:52.880 --> 01:14:55.840
<v Speaker 2>managing directs us as managing director and also does some

1341
01:14:55.880 --> 01:14:59.680
<v Speaker 2>additional research Kelly Rtwyer does the website, and our sole

1342
01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:02.760
<v Speaker 2>non woman contributor is the lovely editor Jake Chafe. And

1343
01:15:02.920 --> 01:15:04.840
<v Speaker 2>getting all the pieces together so that we are not

1344
01:15:04.920 --> 01:15:08.560
<v Speaker 2>tardy ourselves is lead editor Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio.

1345
01:15:08.840 --> 01:15:10.880
<v Speaker 2>Nick Thorburn wrote the theme music. And if you stick

1346
01:15:10.920 --> 01:15:12.199
<v Speaker 2>around to the end of the episode, I tell you

1347
01:15:12.239 --> 01:15:14.800
<v Speaker 2>a secret, and this week it's that. Listen. Sometimes my

1348
01:15:14.840 --> 01:15:17.359
<v Speaker 2>face gets fuzzy, and sometimes I do what is called

1349
01:15:17.359 --> 01:15:20.840
<v Speaker 2>derma planing, which is another word for shaving your face.

1350
01:15:21.199 --> 01:15:23.239
<v Speaker 2>Just a razor. It's a regular razor you would use

1351
01:15:23.239 --> 01:15:24.960
<v Speaker 2>on your legs, but I used it on my face

1352
01:15:25.199 --> 01:15:27.079
<v Speaker 2>and I did it, and I thought, ah, that's a

1353
01:15:27.119 --> 01:15:30.000
<v Speaker 2>little smoother. It's just peach fuzz but you know what

1354
01:15:30.079 --> 01:15:32.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean, just get it off. And I did that,

1355
01:15:32.399 --> 01:15:34.279
<v Speaker 2>and then I just went to record. And I want

1356
01:15:34.279 --> 01:15:38.319
<v Speaker 2>you to know that I have tiny hairs from my

1357
01:15:38.439 --> 01:15:42.560
<v Speaker 2>face now stuck to my face and they itch and

1358
01:15:42.600 --> 01:15:44.600
<v Speaker 2>I want to wash my face. And I don't want

1359
01:15:44.640 --> 01:15:47.119
<v Speaker 2>to tell you this, but I need. I needed a

1360
01:15:47.159 --> 01:15:50.359
<v Speaker 2>secret for this one, and I thought, why give you

1361
01:15:50.399 --> 01:15:53.840
<v Speaker 2>a life hack when I could reveal something even more

1362
01:15:53.880 --> 01:15:58.359
<v Speaker 2>true and disgusting. Listen, it's called dermo planing. Okay, it

1363
01:15:58.479 --> 01:16:02.399
<v Speaker 2>helps your moisturizerance absorb butter. I gotta wash my face,

1364
01:16:02.439 --> 01:16:11.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay for bye. Pacodermatology, homiology, ydo zoology, lithology, new technology, meteorology,

1365
01:16:11.720 --> 01:16:16.560
<v Speaker 2>al metteratology, nathology, seriology, seldology.

1366
01:16:22.800 --> 01:16:25.800
<v Speaker 3>Get into space your dirty tart of grade see