Speaker 1: Don't b b b b b b b b b
b boom, boom.
Speaker 2: Boom.
Speaker 3: A good morning everybody. That was the wrong video that played.
We were supposed to have the regular intro, but there
you go. Welcome to today's show. Welcome to today's show.
My day is part of me Jones. I am the
host of the Paranormal Spectrum here on the Untold Radio Network,
and today we have a great guest, so I want
to get right to that. But first we have our
big event coming up this weekend finally, Krypton's Anomalies and
the Paranormal Convention Saturday, May ninth. This Saturday, if you
are listening live, we are here in Fondlac, Wisconsin. We
have over twenty speakers and workshop at this event, including
Ken Gerhard, Chris Fleming, Lee hampl and so many more
to name. It's going to be awesome. We also have
over forty vendors for you to come and shop and peruse.
We kick it off tomorrow afternoon with a kid's Bigfoot expedition.
Myself and Chris McCurry from the Caps team. We'll be
leading the investigation with Lauren Smith from Night Callers Radio.
We'll be teaching kids, all about the safety of the woods,
how to track creatures, what to look for different environments,
and just basic Bigfoot knowledge. Tickets are still available for
both that and our nighttime Bigfoot expedition. Myself, Chris Lauren
will be joined by Jay Bachochin from Finding Jay here
in Wisconsin and the Kittle Moraine area, Larry Eisler, Ken Gerhard,
and Christina Bloom. Christina Bloom is a psychic medium and
she will be doing channeling, so she is going to
try and channel a Bigfoot while we were out there.
It's gonna be a fun time. If you guys don't
have tickets, get them now, they're still available. Then guys,
we head down to the Paranormal Chicago Convention Saturday, June
thirteenth in Countryside, Illinois. It is just one dollar admission
and free parking. You can't beat that. There's over one
hundred vendors and it is an amazing time down there.
Then I will be at the Brownsville Public Library Wednesday,
June seventeenth, the Cedarberg Public Library Wednesday July twenty second.
I'll be at Potograss Packerland Paranormal Conference September twenty sixth,
in Green Bay, Wisconsin, Ryle Community Library October twenty eighth,
and finally the Belleville Public Library on October thirtieth, just
in time for Halloween. That's what we got coming up here, guys.
It's going to be an awesome rest of the year
and all kicking off this weekend. So without further ado,
we have an awesome guest. Let's get to it all right.
This is one of those bios that has a lot
of big words that I'm gonna get stuck on, So
here we go. My guest today is Pete Kelsey. He
is a reality capture specialist with over twenty five years
of experience lending strategic story driven projects that bring new
insight to historically and cultural significant places. His work with lidar, photogrammetry,
multi spectral imaging, terrestrial laser scanners, GPR, and sonar, applying
these technologies not as ends in themselves, but as tools
to deeven understanding, preservation and public engagement. His work focuses
on projects where spatial data can fundamentally change how familiar
stories are seen, understood, and sustained. Pete's work. Pete's work
has been recognized by global media outlets including The New
York Times and CNN, most notably for his leadership on
the comprehensive three D mapping of Alcatras Island. That project
combined roots, robots, roots drones, lasers, and high performance computing
to create one of the most complete digital records ever
produced of a United States national landmark. His reality capture
expertise has been featured on national geographic documentary television, including
Buried Secrets of World War Two, where modern remote sensing
techniques are used to uncover hidden wartime landscapes and reinterpret
history through data. Additional television documentary work includes projects for
broadcasting and digital platforms where reality capture is used to
visualize inaccessible environments, support investigative storytelling, and complex spatial data
into compelling onseen narratives. These include National Geographics, Durin the Ocean,
History Channels, The Secret of Skinwalker Ranch, and Discovery Channels
Expedition Bigfoot, where geospatial data and advanced sensing are used
to explore controversial or hidden, hard to access locations. Awesome,
there we go. So ladies and gentlemen, please welcome beat
Kelsey Pete, welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks, part of me clearly I need an editor
that that's way too much of the cow. I'm just
a schmuck.
Speaker 3: Usually I skim through it. But I really like your bio.
Not not the length or the details stuff, but I
really like all the stuff that you've done because I
think a lot of people, you know, like in your
bio you are You're known for certain things, most notably
in our community. You know obviously Skinwalker Ranch, and I
don't know how many people you know knew that you
were also on expedition Bigfoot for stuff as well. And
beyond that, all the really cool stuff that you have
done an experience, like the mapping projects, the MOA of
Easter Island and Alcatraz and all these historical locations. And
I want to start there as much as people want
to get to Skinwalker Ranch stuff. But you've you've done
so much really interesting documenting. Can you can we go
through a little bit of that stuff and the importance
of it because documenting these locations, like the three D
scanning of them, and that you preserve that stuff. Tell me,
tell me more about that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's uh, that's genuine passion for me. That's uh wow. Well,
if you make the industry term is digital twin. So
if I scan something, you get a digital twin or
version copy of that thing. And the greatest part is
that it lasts forever. Yeah. Right, So this is say
an Easter Island MOI that I scanned in two thousand
and seven. That data will far outlive me. So you
know that that feels good, That makes me tick. And
then when and if some other person comes along a
year from now, a century from now scans them again,
then you can overlay the two data sets and identified change.
So there's a ton of scientific academic value in it
as well. And it's just yeah, it's at the it's
kind of at the center of everything I do and
kind of where all television came from and mass media.
But yeah, I've been lucky. I've got to do some
really interesting stuff.
Speaker 3: Sound there, Man's I mean this is I don't want
to over emphasize that. This is really cool, like the
fact that you get to go to like like just example,
like the Alcatraz stuff, and like you said, if it crumbles,
if it deteriorates as time goes on, you're preserving all
that history. And you've done other locations as well and
worked on other projects with like preservation of historical buildings
and things, you know, like I think you worked on
one that they were going to tear down and move.
Speaker 2: Is that correct? I bet you're referring to the Cadet
Chapel at the Air Force Academy in Colorado Springs. That
was and it's actually still not going. I actually scanned
it Holy Cow twenty fourteen because they wanted a perfect
copy of the building before they totally took it apart.
And then today there actually putting it all back together again.
And the idea of being where did that part go?
Had it well, let's look at the scan data and
then it's perfect. So yeah, whether it's I don't know,
some environmental disaster. A great example is Notre Dame in Paris, right,
it burned to the ground, you know, some years ago,
but it had been scanned, so it's been completely rebuilt
based on the scan data.
Speaker 3: See that That is amazing, I think, And that's why
I wanted to point out before we get into all
the other stuff. You know that you know, Skinwalker Ranches
its own whole thing and all this stuff, but there's
so much other stuff that your technology and you yourself
have worked on and done and I think that's really cool.
So I appreciate all the historical stuff as well.
Speaker 2: Thanks well. And also at the center of well, a
huge bit of value from the data that I know
how to create is there's no, in my opinion, there's
no better medium for providing context than a perfect three
dimensional colorized model that's accurate to you know, it's sometimes
to millimeters. Because it even transcends language, right, I mean
I could, I could put a model in front of
you and we are not we don't speak the same language,
but I guarantee you go, I know what that is,
got it? I'm with you, and that you know, that's
the value for mass media and you know, big audiences,
big curious audiences with lots of questions, and you know,
then it gets into you know, the million ways the
data can be repurposed. And I have a feeling we'll.
Speaker 3: Be talking about that absolutely when you when you scan stuff,
can can you pick up color as well? Or is
it just the you can okay, yeah, cool?
Speaker 2: Yeah, So light ar is laser based, but most lies
are light Our scanners have you know, a camera or
cameras integrated with the scanner to pick up the RGB
the red green blue the color photographmetry because it's camera based,
that's just color by nature, but multi spectral. You mentioned
that in my bio that's that's one of my favorite
new tools designed to work in agriculture. Actually, it measures
levels of chlorophyll and green plants. So you know, if
you're a farmer, you can fly a drone or the
multi spectral camera and I'll say, hey, more water here,
you've got an insect problem there. I mean, it's really
really amazing tool for that. But oh, by the way,
it just happens to be an amazing tool for archaeology
because plants growing over soil that's been disturbed show up
differently than plants growing over soil that has not, so
it can show you where people digging. It's so cool.
I'm just over the moon about it for the last
couple of years. And by the way, color but color
and as multi spectral the name suggests, it gets into
the infrared and the colors we can't see. Very cool.
Speaker 3: That's that's cool. I know, like you know, like I've
seen some stuff in that with the three D scanning
and that kind of stuff with the lidar, and I've
never noticed that it had color before or anything. So
I was curious because that's that's really neat that you
actually get a whole picture. And obviously if you have
you know, a camera included in the stuff, it would
be taking three dimensional pictures and stuff.
Speaker 2: Very cool. Yeah.
Speaker 3: See, if you spend enough money on the equipment, you
get good quality.
Speaker 2: And that's very true.
Speaker 3: Awesome. All right, Well, I want to ask you one
more thing on this stuff before we move on. You've
mentioned like some of the locations that you've gotten to do,
like you worked with Alcatraz and you know, the other
stuff for the history and discovery, and that is there
anywhere that you still want to go and scan, like
any historical location that's like your bucket list that you
think that you want to go and try and preserve
for future generations.
Speaker 2: There's a long, long list. The trick is what are
the places that have not been scanned that are still
on that list? And that's that's so much impossible, you know,
because places like Machu Pichu that's been gone, the pyramids
and keys that have been done. But I'm because I'm
also kind of a history nut historical sites, like I
was just I live in Montana and you know, I'm
pretty familiar with Lewis and Clark, you know, two hundreds
some years ago opening up the Western US, and of
course they went right through here. So you know, I've
been out messing around at some Lewis and Clark sites,
you know, with permission, of course. So anything historical, you know,
excites me. I'm trying to think of I got one.
I would love to go to Ewogima and to the
entire island because I know, I know it would lead
to discovery and it's a great story. You know, it's
well known, but there are a lot of there are
a lot of MIAs from both Japan and the United
States who've never been you know, recovered, and I would
I'm a veteran. I would love to be involved with that.
I mean, it's history. It's an amazing and important story.
You know. There are a lot of people who I think,
much like when I did the Arizona and Pearl Arbor,
you know, would lean in and say this is great
and maybe even how can I help? So yeah, Eulogima
that occurs to me, that would be amazing, amazing, very cool, awesome.
Speaker 3: All right, Well, we are going to move right along
here to some Bigfoot stuff before we get into the
Skinwalker ranch, because you got to you got to go
to Expedition Bigfoot a couple of times, been on that
show show, And I have a couple screenshots here of
the thing that you captured out in the woods.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I won't forget that.
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I'm gonna pull these up here in a second,
and if you just kind of like want to walk
us through, like what happened and your thoughts on that.
Speaker 2: Sure, Wow, Okay, so this was what's the setup here?
So light Our typically hates motion, right, anything moving in
the scan literally drives light Our service providers like me
completely crazy because it ruins the data and there's a
lot of clean up. It takes hours and hours and hours.
But I suggested to the production company, you know, if
anything moves while I'm scanning through the scan area, you
could almost think of it as like a trap. We'll
see it. Well, it will show up in the data.
And the term for that is ghosting. So as the
scanner is turning and the laser beams are fire out
in all directions, if something moves through the scan, it'll scan.
You'll see it scan. You'll see it scan. You'll see it.
So the ghosting is in this case some kind of
a creature object whatever, moving through the scan. They said, oh,
we love that. Let's let's give it a go. And
next thing I know, we are in That was the
Olympic Peninsula in Washington State, middle of the night. And
the way, you know, anybody who knows the show works is,
you know, Maria's typically off somewhere, Russell's typically off somewhere.
I was by myself. I didn't have any of that
cast with me. It was just me, one cameraman and
there must have been a sound man, but I remember
the director was there as well. So what is that
three or four of us and a long It was
a two hour drive from the casino where our hotel
rooms were, way up into the op the Olympic Peninsula,
middle of nowhere. I mean, civilization literally stops. We are
in the woods. The only sign of I don't know
humanity or the Forest Service or not forest service. What
am I thinking? Forest tree forestry roads because the OP
is huge for timber and et center anyway, So you know,
we get off the last paved road and then there's
you know, dirt roads, and it's just the point I'm
taking too long to make is the middle of nowhere.
But I also think this is important because if this
had been some kind of a setup or a scam,
it would have been so it would have had to
have been planned days in advance to get somebody up
there ahead of us, feel me. So I just jumped
like ten steps ahead. But that's that's the point of
saying we were we were remote. Oh my god. So anyway,
we it's the middle of the night. There's three or
four of us out there, and we just start walking
and I heard a sound, well we all did, because
it was it was like a cannon shot, but more
like somebody broke a tree in half. You know. It's
this huge snap, crack whatever. And I've got the scanner running.
I can't see anything. Didn't hear anything other than this
big crash, and I don't. I'll pry aside I was.
I looked at him. I said, I'm done. We're out
of here, all done. We're going to So we walk
all the way back to the car, which is an SUV.
They opened the hatchback. I get up my laptop because
I'm like, I want to look at the data. Let's
look at the data. Look at the data. Takes me
a little while to post process, and you know what
you've got up on the screen here, you know, that's
that's not my data. That's sort of the CG computer
graphics that the show, you know, sort of superimposed over it.
But what I saw, and as I recall, it's pretty yeah,
there we go was pretty organic in the show. And
I freaked out because that's not supposed to be there.
And it definitely looked shall I say, humanoid, and it
was and it had moved through my scan and ghosted
through the scan. So and I'm you know, I spent
my career in engineering. So the whole cryptozoology Bigfoot thing
to me was until I saw this was, you know,
show me the money. I'm not a believer. I'm not
you know, I need I need something that will stand
up to cross examination. And then I see this and went, wow,
uh freaked me out. Cameras are rolling, it was all live,
it was all organic and yeah, still no explanation other
than the truth is in the data. Something moved through
my scan that looks like a bipedal humanoid thing. Crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, when when I I think you had
been on Skinwalker Ranch prior to going on this show,
it like appeared on there, and so I was I
was familiar with, you know, what you were working on
and stuff and how things worked in that and to
see a show up on that show was really cool
for one. And then you know, watching watching you walk
through the woods, the pure just your your emotion in
that moment was really cool that something was there. You
could tell that wasn't like rehearse, that wasn't you know
or nothing. I mean, like you freaked out, and I
don't blame you. I mean, when you're walking through the
woods and something comes out of the woods act you
you know you're you're going to react to it. And
then to have this thing captured, I thought it was
one of the coolest things on the show that they've
gotten there.
Speaker 2: But it's just.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know what else to say about. That's
why I want to hear your question.
Speaker 2: And I don't. I don't either, But what a I mean,
without exaggeration, what a compelling bit of evidence? I mean,
you can't fake this stuff. It's it's laser based technology.
It has one hundred meter range, it fires three hundred
points per second. It's a lot of data and there's
something in the data. And you know, for me, well,
I've already said it, you know, I I what a
I guess personally, you know, what a humbling moment, right
because okay, okay, I see what I see. It's in
my data. And so you know, when the show called
me back, I'm like, yeah, I'm in. I'm in. Let's
see what else we can get. So, you know, a
bit of a I guess, sort of setting the hook
because I need to make sense of this. You know,
I'd like to go back to the very same site
and see if we could repeat it. But the trouble
with television is they never want to do anything twice
because people change the channel. It's like, nah, we've already
seen this. I'm like, are you kidding? Do you know
what it would mean if we could repeat that? Oh
my gosh, now we're getting into Yeah, that would stand
up to cross examination. That would be like here's the data,
any questions? Very cool? Very cool. Yeah.
Speaker 3: So to remind anybody that you know, may not have
seen the episode lately or anything, you were looking you
got called out there to look for holes or bunkers
out in the woods, like government bases or something. Supposedly
they were looking for and I forgot forgotten that. Yeah,
you had scanned an area and said, oh, there might
be something here, but I want to go look at
it at the ground level, and so off you went
walking through the woods and I got got a little
off track and never made it to the location.
Speaker 2: So yeah, right, I've forgotten that, and we did there
was man made stuff in the drone base Acain I did.
You're right, I remember that. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Awesome, very cool, And you've also done You've been on
the show multiple times. You've talked about this on other
POTS guests and stuff about your work with the Bluff
Creek and the Patterson Gimlin footage and hitting the scale
of it and how cool that is. I mean, that's
that's really neat to be able to go out there
and now we have a full three D scan of
that as well for preservation, because I mean that area
gets hit quite a bit with wildfires and stuff, and
luckily it's survived so far. But it's it's awesome that
you you got a chance to preserve that as well.
Speaker 2: Well. Not to mention if that means I've described that,
uh what do I call it? Adventure as that's the coolest,
most fascinating, most interesting forensic project I've ever done, ever,
and I've done a lot. We go to the Patterson
Gimlin film site, and again a conversation with a production company. Hey,
we're going to go to the PG film site. You
have any ideas And I didn't even blink. I said,
what if I could tell you how tall the creature
Patty is in the film? What you could do that? Yes,
if there are still items at the film site, trees, rocks,
fallen logs, whatever that are in the film, if they're
still there and I can scan them, we have access,
My scanner has access, then yeah, I can give you
accurate geometry to anything in the film. So you know,
you know, Maria, you know, well, what's the length of
the humorous and stride length? And you know, but when uh,
you know, I don't want to give this away, but
we've you know, yeah, we know how tall pad he is.
And then yeah, I loved I love this bit of
the story because when I first saw the data and
did the measurement and it said foot three inches tall,
Oh God, I am going to be the audience is
going to crucify me, because you know, that sort of
points the needle more at a man in a monkey
suit than these seven eight foot tall creatures. So you know,
I was like, oh my god, I'm so sorry guys,
but they did it. Isn't Lie six foot three and
Marada and blank. Yeah, but she's female, and run the math,
run the math, and all the great ape species the
males are x percent taller than the females. So run
the math and oh yeah, a male version of Patty
would be seven eight feet tall. And I was like,
oh god, thank god, I'm going to live.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, there's there's a lot of difference in size there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but like I say, I mean that and when
I when I learned that that's the second most filmed
watched film in history. Okay, this is going to be
this is going to be cool. You know what if
it works and and the data is sound and we
can figure out. I mean, at this point now that
you know that's a few years ago. Now, selfishly, I
still wonder how come that hasn't received a lot of press.
Speaker 3: Right that It's it's weird, you know, all the stuff
that does and doesn't make the news, you know, like
I don't know all the the UFO disclosure stuff in
that too gets kind of swept under the rug and
people pay attention. But yeah, I don't know, so in
your in your opinion, there's there's been a lot of
talking controversy of the whole you know, Patterson Gimlin footage
being a guy in a costume, especially with this supposed
documentary that came out that nobody's really seen except for
like four people. But anyway, do you do you believe
that it's an actual creature or do you think that
it's a person in a suit based on what you
scanned and what you you got from that data?
Speaker 2: Oh gosh, well, I don't know which I don't again
because my background is engineering, and you know, will whatever
I do is stand up in court across examination? You know,
I don't think I can say in terms of what
I've done. You know, we're there, But you know, personally,
Patty sure looks like a female grade ape to me
in the film, mhm, you know, uh so and admitting
confirmation biased? You know, would I would? I? Would? I
be one who was thrilled to learn that there's a
seventh you know, great age species. Hell, yes, because it's
one of my favorite things is Disruptive science is when
a narrative that we're all used to and know and
have known for centuries whatever goes turned on its ear.
I love when that happens, and I don't care what
the subject is. So yeah, I'm hoping that you know,
there will be irrefutable evidence at some point that you know,
all of us can just go with all the humility,
any questions.
Speaker 3: Exactly awesome. All right, guys, we are live in studio today.
We are chatting with you. If you're watching this on
YouTube right now. Uh so, so if you have questions
for Pete, get them in the comments here. We are
going to move into what I think a lot of
people have been waiting for and want to talk about,
and that is the new season of the Secret of
Skinwalker Ranch or not not necessarily a new season, but
the new season comes out on May nineteenth. We are
in season seven right now. So with that being said,
we're not going to get into spoilers and all that
stuff for anybody that's out there, you know, NDAs and
television stuff. I get that. So with that being said,
if you have any questions on anything that's happened on
the show or Lidar or scans or anything in general
from any of the other previous six seasons or anything
that you want to know. Throw them in the comments
and we will get to them as soon as we
can here. So, first off, I want to talk to
you about this big dome bubble thing.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 3: So, I'm familiar with how light our works. I'm familiar
with the technology and stuff. But my question is, and
I'm not looking for like you know, hypothesis and you know,
speculation and stuff of all that. This is this pure science,
is what I want to go with today's show. What
would it take because this is these are lasers, This
is light that you're using for mapping, So what would
it take for it to hit that is giving you
that feedback of a bubble? You know, if there's nothing
that we can see up there, what other things can
light our hit and bounce off against.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So with current understanding of physics and disclaimer, I'm
not a physicist, unfortunately, you know Travis and Eric at
the Ranch are. But so it's infrared laser light and
for you, the term is return for and how I
know you know how it works. But the laser fire
the three hundred two two million times per second fires,
and to get a return, it either has to interact
with something with mass or reflectivity. That's basically it. Now,
the other bit of Technoobabbel is it is a time
of flight device and that means to get that return
at two million times per second. If it's the terrestrial
laser scanner, which is what the DON has showed up
in several times, it's it's amazing technology. It's because it's
speed of light. Right, the laser fires, goes out, interacts
with something and comes back and it creates one point
xyz location right latline long elevation at that item. But
it's determined by time. How long did it take that
laser beam to go out, interact with something and come
back at times that, based on that calculation, sets a
point in space. So long preamble, apology, apologies, but this
is what makes it so fascinating is the dome the
bubble is at more than two x the range of
the scanner. That's the first head scratcher. Okay, so it
shouldn't work at all. There shouldn't be anything that far.
There shouldn't be any returns possible that far away from
the scanner. So what could cause something like that I
mean your question, I have no idea, And I've been
using TLS terrestrial agent scanning for over twenty five years
all over the world and all kinds of environments, and
I have only seen this happen in one other place,
which is the Miller Ranch in southern Colorado, which was,
Oh my gosh, that's a whole rabbit hole we could
go down as well. But the point is I haven't
seen it before. Other than that one time, we've been
able to repeat it. This bubble has shown up in
numerous scans, So those are the facts. From there, I
can only speculate. And I've been talking about this for
some time. You know. That's and no pun intended, because
it's a time of flight device. You know, I had
this thought a few years ago. Well, guys, what about time?
What if I mean as completely you know, lock me
up butterfly net nuts as the sounds. What if time
is either stretched or compressed or both on that property, Well,
that would affect the time measurement, right, So if the
time was compressed, we could get stuff like returns underground,
which we've got. If time was stretched, that would explain
returns beyond the range of the scanner because it's somehow
spoofing the clock measuring the laser time of flight, which
pure speculation, but god, that is God. It hooks, It's
hooks in me. It's just it fascinates me to no end.
And working with the vendors who make the hardware and
the software, you know, we're all just going this is
completely off the charts. Nobody can explain it. So wow,
it remains enigmatic, but for me personally fascinating that is.
I want to run that to ground. And I'm sure
that there are you know, millions of you know, folks
around the world who were watching the show. I'd like
to understand that as well. Count me as one of them,
probably the first.
Speaker 3: So I've gotten to work on a couple locations I've
gone out to, not on the Skinwalker, but I've worked
on Ufo Valley Campground, which is right next door. You
got to be familiar to that, but I've gotten to
go out there and investigate. I've investigated a place here
in Wisconsin that is Lee Hample's Hayfield and it is
off a break road here and it is very similar
to a lot of the stuff going on at Skinwalker.
So I've I've gotten to experience a lot of these
phenomenon for myself, and it is just boggles my mind
from my understanding of a lot of this stuff as well.
So so this this is really interesting because I've, like
I said, I've I've listened to a bunch of the
podcasts that you're on to kind of get ready for
this and that, and this whole time thing is is
really interesting because Okay, if I'm getting this, if I'm
understanding this right, So if you're standing there the the
you're not measuring distance, you're measuring time away from the scanner.
Speaker 2: That's correct, same time of flight device.
Speaker 3: Interesting. Okay, so then it has to it has to
hit or bounce off something. And see the way I
I thought that this this was working. Was it measured
like the length of the beam, like it shot out
and said, okay, this is three feet, this is you know,
whatever it is. But it's it's the bounce and return
is what you're looking at.
Speaker 2: Kind of like, well, it is measuring it just to
your point. You're right, it's using time to do the measurement.
So they are all of the point clouds in light
are are geometrically accurate to a very high degree like
with TLS. You know, if I'm using it indoors and
there's walls and floors and ceilings and whatever, you can
get submillimeter stuff with you know, TLS. So without going
down that rabbit hole, every point cloud from every skin
I've ever done in my entire career is measurable, meaning
like the story about Patty, how tall is Paddy? Oh,
it's easy?
Speaker 3: Well, this is interesting that so and I may you
can't answer this at all. But if you're standing in
the middle of the triangle right where the bubble takes place,
and these beams are shooting out, they're getting distorted by
time so that you're extending the length of what's supposed
to be there. Why do you think that you're getting
a bubble shape instead of, like you said, like a vehicle. Right,
So obviously you're out there, there's vehicles parked all around you,
the camera crew and stuff that drove out to the site.
Why isn't that vehicle showing up like elongated or pushed
off to the side, and you're getting all these, like
you said, the ghosts of these things out there. Do
you have any any thoughts on it?
Speaker 2: I have no idea I wish I did, but you're
you make a really good point. So in the rest
of the scan, the mesa, the ground, all our vehicles,
cast crew, they're all where they should be. There's nothing,
you know, anomalous about that portion of the scan. You know,
my head's going to explode. It doesn't make any sense.
It doesn't. So you know, why does it look like,
you know, a half sphere of dome, a bubble, no
idea and a fairly I don't want to use the
word perfect, but it's true. It's such a well defined
half sphere dome bubble. You know why? I wish I knew,
I wish I knew. All I can say is there
are a lot of people looking into that, myself included clearly.
Speaker 3: So when when you've you've done this, it's repeatable, like
as good science as you can repeat this. Have you
noticed that all that it's moved or shifted?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 3: Has the dome like moved a foot over six inches over?
Has it always been pretty much exactly where it always is?
Speaker 2: Hopefully that is a good question too. Has it moved
so it's shown up on two areas of the property
m hmm, the triangle and the eastfield canyon. So that's
part of my answer. Let's hope I didn't just violate
an NDA no, because we've talked about that before or
I have publicly, so.
Speaker 3: You might lived it a long time ago. That's good.
Speaker 2: Yeah, But to your question, this is something I I
haven't looked at now. It could be Eric has you know,
has the bubble at the triangle? Has that moved or
is it always showed up in about the same spot.
I will go out on a limb and say I
don't think it's moved, because what I am confident about
is when we've been trying to repeat it, I've been scanning.
Have to be careful that would violate the NBA. The
scans to date have been the scanner has been placed
within a foot or two of where it's been previously. Yeah, okay,
But in terms of being able to repeat the bubble
from other locations, stay tuned.
Speaker 3: Yeah okay, that was going to be my next question
is have you been able to scan it from above
and does it show the same. But again, and I
want to preface this again for anybody just tuning in.
We've got a lot of people listening. I don't want
to violate and I don't want to get into, you know,
stuff that we can't, so if we just cut off,
that's that's why. And I appreciate, I appreciate your honesty
and stuff with that so very interesting. I'm very interested
in seeing this. I've been you know, I've read Skinwalker
ranch and stuff from all the way to the big
Low days and stuff, and I've I've kept up with
the show, and we talked about this before the show.
I don't have time to watch a lot of TV
and stuff, and Skinwalker, I will admit, is the only
show that I religiously watch every week when it's on.
Speaker 2: Just well, and it's I've been going through that gate
for six years now and I am going to keep
coming back until they lock me out because for the
exact same reasons you're talking about. It's like I need
you know, I've I talk about this a lot. I've
gone from this is all total nonsense. You know, my
first visit there too, Wow, what was that? To now
now I'm just down right pissed off. I am I
am almost you know, obsessed is not correct, but close close.
I need I need to understand this. I need to
and fortunately I haven't burned any bridges and keep getting
invited back to try to to try to get some answer.
Speaker 3: That seemed like the last season you kind of became
more of a regular character. You were on there almost
every episode and stuff, doing different experiments and stuff where
in the past you've done once or twice during the
season or something they'd bring you in, and now all
of a sudden, it's like every episode you run and
that's really cool.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well thanks for that. But I'm the guy
at the gate going let me let me I'm not done,
but I have new tag, let me go. You awesome.
Qu I just saw in the comment Pete Kelsey's white Whale. Yeah,
that's how I describe it. It's it's I've become ahab.
It's like anyway, fascinating, absolutely fascinating. I'm with you. I mean,
I wouldn't be coming back six years in now if
I wasn't fascinated, a little intimidated, pissed off. It's like
we have It's I guess it comes down to I've
talked to people you know who are friends of mine.
Now you know, come on the ranch after I have
or you know, done the big the whole paranormal stuff.
Subject matter I'm like, look, it's sort of psychologically the
a component to this is what are you going to
do when you encounter something you can't explain? What are
you going to do? And I'm fascinated by that, just
sort of the psych one oh one part of that.
And I've discovered about myself that how I react to
it is I'm leaning in let's go and uh stubborn
and obsessed pistolf, etc. But I become really interested in
that part of it because I've watched people react. I'm
sure you have as well. What are you going to do?
You know, are you going to soil yourself? Are you
going to say go to the divine with you know,
respect science, you know, some hybrid of all of it.
It's just again the nerd in me is fast by
that that aspect of this kind of work as well.
Very cool.
Speaker 3: You mentioned that you you'd gone out to the Miller
ranch as well, have you? I know, there's there's another
whole spin off of the Beyond the Skinwalker Ranch series,
and forgive me, there's there's all these episodes and I
don't remember offhand every episode, but have you gotten to
work with those? And you know when you you go
to these other locations. Have you had similar weird stuff
happen that you can't explain? Like, has there been anywhere
else where this stuff is repeatable.
Speaker 2: Like that you uh's that you can talk about? So
I did. Yeah, I did a bunch of episodes with
the Beyond guys Beyond Skinwalker Ranch, uh, which of course
is looking for the same sort of phenomena, but off
the ranch and the Miller Ranch it's in and it's
extreme southern Colorado, right on the New Mexico border. And
there is a bridge there right adjacent to their property,
the Highway three point fifty bridge, And that is the
only other place where I have seen anomalous, just crazy
returns in the data. But at Miller Ranch, they were underground,
which is it possible? Right, lasers can't see through earth bedrock, etc.
And then I remember, God, we were filling the bit
because there's always a data review thing, right, there's a
bit where I'm out scanning, and then there's a bit
where let's look at the data. And we got set
up in the Miller's home and they are the nicest,
sweetest people. Be kind to them. If you go to
the site, go up and knock on their door. You
don't have to the bridges right there, public property, YadA YadA.
We're in their home. And I go, okay, let's look
at the light art and the lights go out. Yeah
I remember that, and I'm like, and the crew, the
cast and the crew are freaking out, and I thought,
you know, I thought it was a gag. What are
you guys trying to make me scream? You know? And
then it happened again and the Millers are like, yeah,
welcome to our home. It was just crazy, you know. Yeah.
Could there be a logical explanation, of course, but in
the moment, you know, way, do you guys see this light?
Our data? I've got returns underground? Here we go and
then the lights go That was that was just nuts.
Speaker 3: Well, we have some Q and A over here as well.
Before we get to this, We're about eight minutes from
the end of the hour. I don't want to keep
you beyond that, so I want to make sure are
we okay to go a little over or.
Speaker 2: Do you we can go a bit over all? Right?
Speaker 3: Thank you very much. So this was one of my
questions and Lee brought it up as well. Have you
ever brought home anything from skinwalker ranch, we hear about
the hitchhiker effect of things following you home or phenomenon
in your own house. And again, you can take this
or you can walk away with it. I leave it
all up to you what you want to talk about.
But have you had any experiences?
Speaker 2: No, there's and I'm torn by that, right because well,
what about me? You know? But on the other hand,
you hear some of these hitchhricker stories, I'm like, I'm cool,
I'm grateful. I don't need any of that in my life.
So yeah, short answer is not yet cool.
Speaker 3: We kind of covered this one already here when you
had filmed the anomaly with Expedition Bigfoot, was there any
noise from them walking?
Speaker 2: I remember? Is that huge crash breaking a big tree
or a log or something in half? That's what it
sounded like. But walking? Good question, But I don't remember that.
Speaker 3: We have a couple of these, and I don't know.
I don't know what this is pertaining to. But would
love to hear the story of the brown socks. If
Pete sees this, can you tell the story of where
the brown sucks came from? So would you be so
kind as to tell us a story about brown socks.
Speaker 2: You asked for it? Okay, so this ties directly into
what I was saying about. You know, what are you
going to do? How you react when something you can
explain occurs right in front of you. You hear, see, touch, smell, whatever.
Something happened, and the brown socks thing came from I
said several years ago. I don't even remember the story.
It was probably something happened at the ranch that freaked
me out. And whoever was talking to me, he said, well,
what did you do? And I said, well, I shit
my socks, That's what I did. And thus was born
this brown Sox thing. And you know, yeah, so for
the folks who know me and know the show, brown
Sox just means he had a moment, and there have
been many of them. Fair enough, awesome, you asked, I
don't have much of a filter, by the way.
Speaker 3: Even does my audience. So there go. Okay, all right,
So is there any device that can detect infrasound?
Speaker 2: Well there must be, but it's not my area. I
don't know, but there has to be.
Speaker 3: I can feel that one a little bit. There are
infrasound protectors and you can actually download an app on
your phone that does that, and I've used it on
a couple occasions for my research because with Bigfoot and
stuff with infrasound, We've gone to the zoo and used
it in proximity to the elephants. Wow produce infrasound, and
it was really interesting. They were getting a bath one day,
sprayed down by the hose, and the whole time that
the bath was going on, they were emitting this low
infrasound like they were happy or something. And then when
it stopped, then the infra sound went away. So it
was pretty interesting. So there are devices and that is
one of the few things that I would say does
work on yourself when you're talking about like paranormal and
weird stuff that all these apps are out there, but
there are info sound detectors and you can buy them
separate or on your phone.
Speaker 2: I learned something. I love when that happens.
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely, that's what we're all here for. All right,
let's see Chris says, love what you do. Please consider
hosting your own show. It would be a tremendous hit.
Simplify God bless.
Speaker 2: That's really kind. I appreciate that very much, but not
my skill set. And you know with guys like Barnaby
out here, you know it's more it's easier to be
a guest. But thank you for the kind words. That's
really and five brother.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Lee Warner says, is light our dangerous to the
person holding it at all doing the handheld scans?
Speaker 2: No? No, all, almost all. There are exceptions, but terrestrial
lasers canning slam light R. They're all Class one meaning
I safe lasers, so can't hurt you, perfectly safe. The
only light Our I've worked with that was dangerous was
sub Sea light R when we did the Arizona in
Pearl Harbor, and they wouldn't let us be in the
water with that thing because it would blind you.
Speaker 3: That was one of the things that was on my
list to ask you. So light our shoots through water,
if you've worked on projects like that you just mentioned that,
does the you know when when light goes into water,
we know that it bends and stuff. Does that affect
lighter like you just said it was underwater, So do
you have to shoot underwater? Can you shoot from above
into water? How does that affected it? And does that
have any impact in like what we see with the
lasers bending above the ranch.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there are variables that I'm not aware of
that because yeah, trans medium to go from air to water,
that can be done. There are piloted aircraft, airplanes with
multi multimillion dollar light are sensors that are designed for
shoreline work that can you get all the topography of
the ground, but can also get if the turbidity, the
clarity of the water. As such, they can get returns
fifty meters deep. I mean, it's amazing, amazing, very expensive technology.
So clearly there's a solution for that. Trans medium light ar.
The light ar we used in Hawaii underwater was typically
the lasers that work underwater are green and visible, whereas
typically light our is infrared, you can't see it, et cetera,
et cetera. But green also means this is a really
powerful laser. It is not Class one. I just said
it would blind you. They wouldn't let us in the
water with it. All I can remember is I think
we probably killed a couple of fish because a fish
would swim through the beam and then just go belly
up and float to the top. It can be dangerous,
but again that's that's a really you know, specialized field
of light. Our subse light our, the green lasers, et cetera.
It's nothing. I mean I've used them before, but it's
not something i've used. Let me make sure I get
this right. Yeah, I've only used it in Hawaii on
the Arizona. So really, you know, we need we need
an optical physicist, which I am not.
Speaker 3: So with with what you are using at Skinwalker. Those
beams wouldn't penetrate water? Interesting? Yeah, okay, interesting? See See
that was wondering two. Like, like I said, you know,
would it bend or refract? I guess when it enters
the water in the medium, and then like I said,
would that be you know what we're seeing above the ranch?
Speaker 2: But yeah, typically, yeah, the the infrared light are anything
highly reflected of glass, chrome water. You know, you just
it looks like a Picasso because it's just really messy.
You know, you don't get a good return because what
just happened, you know, it reflected back on itself and
it kind of loses his mind.
Speaker 3: Okay, So I know that you've been up in the helicopter.
You've talked about this using the scanners and stuff. Does
the clouds affect that? Like I guess, like, well, rain
clouds are something that would be more full of water.
But does that have the same effect or a similar
effect if you hit those.
Speaker 2: Not in my experience only because at the ranch when
it is cloudy, the cloud the clouds are you know,
gray altitude and you know, we've I don't think I've
been above five or ten thousand feet at the ranch
and it's you know, the southwest, it's hujah, it's pretty era.
Now I've done some work and it's started to rain
and you actually can see rain drops in a cloud. Yeah.
So again it has mass, but not every rain drop
because some of them it will reflect and won't get
a good return.
Speaker 3: But sometimes so let me ask you this, if if
it's raining and you hit this the light our scan,
it hits that rain drop, what does that look like
in comparison to what you're seeing with with hitting this
dome or.
Speaker 2: The bubble just random noise, just points all over the
place with no rhyme or reason, just chaotic you know returns,
whereas the bubble is it's a bubble, it has you know,
it's a clearly a geometric shape. Crazy, okay, awesome.
Speaker 3: If you have any last minute questions, throw them in
and we will get to them before we wrap up.
Otherwise I have one last one that looks like here,
first it was a cone, then it was a dome,
and now a bubble, or at least I am assuming
this past twenty five filming did not have it.
Speaker 2: More.
Speaker 3: Once again, what was the cause of the artifact in
the data to shape and size over time? Was it
the use of different equipment or the use of existing
equipment but somehow used differently.
Speaker 2: Let's see, it seems like a two part answer to
me if I'm understanding any question.
Speaker 3: Right, Okay, let let me break it down here.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what was first? What was the cause of this?
First it was a cone, then a dome, and no
a bubble. So that makes me sort of laugh because
internally cast and crew, there have been so many times
where we'll just look at ease and go, what are
we calling it today? Really, we get really frustrated, and
you know, the production company, Prometheus, it's basically you know,
continuity is up to them, and normally it's me. Frankly,
I like today I've called it a cone or a
dome or whatever, and I get yelled at a lot.
Speaker 3: Okay, it's a bubble, it's a bubble, it's got it, and.
Speaker 2: Then I'll call it a dome get trouble. So there's
that bit of it that that's not on purpose. That's
just humans being continuity. When you know you're investing, investigating
something is weird, you know, what do we call it? Uh?
Whereas the other part this if this, if Melissa is
asking if the name change is somehow related to changes
in gear, changes in methodology in the field, Absolutely not
absolutely not no, no, no, no, that's just humans being
different equipment existing equipment, but somehow to use differently. No, no, no,
that would Eric, Eric would have me escort it off
the property, because that's not good science. That's not repeatability
under the same circumstances, same positions, same settings, et cetera,
et cetera. So I like the question. I hope you
like the answer.
Speaker 3: I think that you kind of hit it on the
head there with us. You know, I've noticed that in
the beginning it was a dome, and then you found
out that there was a bottom half to it, and
then it started being called the bubble, and and I
think that's kind of what she's referencing is is why
did it keep changing names? And it was just kind
of more we learned about it, or more you guys,
not me, but you know more than you know the
show learned about it and experienced different things with it.
Speaker 2: So yeah, we went we went through the same thing
with the photographmetry spire in the East Shield. Yeah, that
had twelve names before, you know. I and to this day,
I don't know what. I don't know what the final
I don't know what the court I'm kidding, I don't
know what the decision was as to what they call
that thing either.
Speaker 3: So there's there's so much. You have a whole thing
about this, you know, I mean, like the whole beyond
Skinwalker and the oh my gosh, I can't think what's
called the the subscription thing where you guys go into
all that stuff and help me out. Yeah, like we could.
I mean, we talked for you know, years about all
the Skinwalker ran and stuff. So we are going to
wrap it up. One last question here from the comments
for you, it says, Pete, how do you prepare yourself
mentally before going to the ranch.
Speaker 2: M That's a fair question, and frankly I haven't thought
about it. So this is sort of in the moment
of the cuff I because I travel with so much
gear and I actually drive to the ranch when when
I get the call and say, hey, you know we
could use your services. You know, I load up my
truck with all my stuff and I make the drive
and it takes me. I do it in two days,
just because you know, I need a break. I could
do it in one thing, but anyway, I have those
two days now that I think about it. Two think
about because the great thing for me about driving is
I'm old and a bit of a curmudgeon. You know,
I won't use my phone, there's no distractions. I'm just driving,
so it's just me and the noise in my head.
And I get to think about what the guys want.
You know, they've made a request. Here's what you know,
we'd like you to do. So I had basically have
two days of peace and quiet to think about how
I'm going to do it, how we're going to do
it safely, how to get the best results, you know,
how to please everybody, not only the the actual science,
but television, because it's you know, it's a double ed sore.
So I guess with that as a long preamble, I
guess I've prepare myself mentally, I get really focused on
the task is there. As you can imagine, there's so
many distractions at that place, and they're happening all the time,
from things you see, Sorry, it's things you witness, things
you know with my gear, you know, whatever it is.
I I'm really task oriented because I'm stubborn, because I'm
pissed off because I want answers. But I hadn't thought
about this before. But they are also sort of quiets
for me, you know, all the the other stuff, the
stuff I've wound up with brown socks, it's.
Speaker 3: Just awesome, awesome. When you you had mentioned you hadn't
had any like hitchhiker effect stuff happened. Do you think
that if you did have like stuff start happening at
your house, would that change your willingness to go back
there or change anything that you're doing. I mean that's
what it would.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what happened, But how could it not? So yeah,
but you know, again, I'm pretty stubborn, and the hook
has been set really deep to me. I think the
only way I would find peace with that would be
to get some blankety blank answers. So yeah, yeah, I'm
just focused on that. I can see that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if something happened at your house, you'd be like, no,
I don't care what happened. I'm going to figure out
why that happened and get to the right Yeah, I'd
be the same way.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. Well, I really appreciate your time
coming on here today and stuff and sharing all your
knowledge and clearing some stuff up and you know, just
just taking your time. And I appreciate your willingness, like
you said, to be so stubborn in going back there
and just trying to get answers because a lot of
the times, like people get frustrated and they give up
or you know, and I appreciate the science and everything
that's going into it. So thank you so much for that.
Speaker 2: Well, thank you, barnaby, and thanks for having me, and
thanks for everybody who tuned in and listen to me
blather on. It's always fun, it's never dull, So thank.
Speaker 3: You, absolutely, it's my pleasure. Before we wrap up, you
have a website and some stuff going on. Tell everybody
what you got where we can find you and follow you.
Speaker 2: Thanks VCTO labs dot com. You'll see my hat labs
dot com. All one word. Actually, I just tweaked the website.
It's looking good. Yeah, projects are up there, calendars up there,
where I'm going to be what I'm going to be doing,
you know, the stuff that is an NBA. Of course,
thanks for letting me do a shameless plug.
Speaker 3: Absolutely absolutely. The link for your website is in the
show notes as well as your link to the Alcatraz
stuff because I thought that was really great. Thank for
everyone that is interested. But awesome, Pete, thank you so
much for coming on. What is one final thought that
you want to leave everyone with? With all of your research,
all the interesting places that you've been, what do you
want to leave people with thinking about today?
Speaker 2: Stay curious, stay curious?
Speaker 3: Very good, awesome man, Thank you so much for coming on.
You have a great day and stay safe out there.
Speaker 2: Many thanks, Barbiby.
Speaker 3: All right, guys, that is our show, the new season
of the Secret of Skinwalker Ranch with Pete Kelsey. I'm
sure he'll be in there quite a bit this year
as well. May nineteenth, it comes to you from I
believe History Channel or the Discovery Channel, and or not
Discovery Channel, but the Discovery series of Get you Know
Where It Is? But May nineteenth, the brand new season
comes out, go check that out. And if you want
more on all the cool stuff that Pete has worked with,
all the things that they scanned, historical sites and everything,
go check out his website. It is in these show notes.
But that is it, guys. That is our show. That
is our wrap up here for those of you missed it,
guys on Monday. I am going to be taking a
break off over the summer here for my own research
and spending more time out in the field, so I
won't be back next week. Hopefully I will be back
in the fall. We'll see how things go. But I
will be at multiple events over the summer and you
can come find me. Head on over to wisconsincaps dot
com click on the public events page if you want
to meet me in person or see me at any events.
Until then, guys, remember we're all part of the paranormal spectrum.
Until we meet again, I'll see you on the edge.
Speaker 2: You seem to know something I don't.
Speaker 1: Let's call me Okay, it's Tellyway please, I'm not.
Speaker 2: That's go next thing streets. I'm pages in the room
and I can feed it.
Speaker 3: Ky I'm reading under Can you call Kay away?
Speaker 1: Some album baggage can