1 00:00:04,879 --> 00:00:07,160 Speaker 1: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to 2 00:00:07,200 --> 00:00:09,640 this podcast. It is heard live every day from noon 3 00:00:09,679 --> 00:00:12,480 to three on WBT Radio in Charlotte. And if you 4 00:00:12,560 --> 00:00:16,719 want exclusive content like invitations to events, the weekly live stream, 5 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:19,239 my daily show prep with all the links, become a patron, 6 00:00:19,320 --> 00:00:22,600 go to thepeakclendershow dot com. Make sure you hit the 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,160 subscribe button. Get every episode for free, write to your 8 00:00:25,160 --> 00:00:27,719 smartphone or tablet, and again, thank you so much for 9 00:00:27,760 --> 00:00:32,640 your support. Let me quote Mary Catherine Hamm who says 10 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,000 she has a trade deficit with Bojangles, and that's not 11 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:43,719 inherently bad. She buys biscuits from Bojangles. She gives the money. 12 00:00:43,960 --> 00:00:49,399 Bojangles has no need for her podcasting skills, as she says, 13 00:00:50,840 --> 00:00:54,240 Bojangles doesn't require anything that she has except for the money, 14 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,679 So she gives them money. She buys the biscuits. She 15 00:00:57,799 --> 00:01:00,920 is happy with the purchase. Her life life is enriched 16 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:05,519 by having the biscuit and maybe some chicken. I don't know. 17 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:11,159 But that's the trade, a voluntary trade that is a 18 00:01:11,159 --> 00:01:14,599 trade deficit for her two Bojangles. Does that mean that 19 00:01:14,719 --> 00:01:20,319 somehow or another Bojanngles needs to be taxed for selling 20 00:01:20,359 --> 00:01:23,159 the food to her that she wants. Right, If you 21 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:26,319 don't think that the product being sold here has a value, 22 00:01:26,359 --> 00:01:31,040 then don't purchase the product. But Americans do put a 23 00:01:31,159 --> 00:01:36,760 value on lower cost goods like televisions for example. Right, 24 00:01:37,159 --> 00:01:40,359 you can buy a TV for three hundred dollars. It's 25 00:01:40,439 --> 00:01:42,799 nicer than any TV you've ever owned for way more 26 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,079 Americans like that. That improves their standard of living. They 27 00:01:48,079 --> 00:01:52,560 have nicer things, right. I mean that's the idea of 28 00:01:53,359 --> 00:01:57,239 free trade. So and fair trade. Will I should also 29 00:01:57,319 --> 00:01:59,439 point that out too, because it's got to be fair. 30 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,000 And if you're dealing with a country that keeps slapping 31 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,480 tariffs on American imports and you want to make an 32 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:09,439 argument that they're not behaving fairly, they're keeping us out 33 00:02:09,439 --> 00:02:14,439 of their markets, then yeah, I'm open to having actual 34 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,360 reciprocal tariffs, like if you want to make that specific 35 00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:23,120 of an argument. But all those countries now that that 36 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:25,879 now have a ten because he Trump put a ten 37 00:02:25,919 --> 00:02:31,400 percent baseline tariff on everybody. So like they're they're like, 38 00:02:31,439 --> 00:02:34,159 there's an island. Have you heard about this? Let me 39 00:02:34,159 --> 00:02:36,319 see here, I'll pull it up here. There is an island, 40 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:45,280 herd Island and McDonald heard Island and McDonald Islands has 41 00:02:45,319 --> 00:02:49,719 a population of zero they got slapped with tariffs, has 42 00:02:49,759 --> 00:02:55,159 a population of zero and is inhabited only by penguins. 43 00:02:55,759 --> 00:02:59,439 So like, I don't understand why is that one in 44 00:02:59,479 --> 00:03:03,560 the list? How did that one make the list? There 45 00:03:03,599 --> 00:03:06,439 was another one. I forget what it was called. All 46 00:03:06,479 --> 00:03:09,800 it is is a is like eighteen people there and 47 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,919 it's like a weather station facility, and they got hit 48 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:17,360 with the tariff. And that's the kind of thing that, 49 00:03:17,439 --> 00:03:21,560 you know, when I'm looking at the structure and the 50 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:26,280 nature of the tariffs, it makes me wonder was this 51 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:31,280 thing done by AI or something like? How like how 52 00:03:31,319 --> 00:03:35,639 did they figure some of these some of these tariffs? 53 00:03:36,240 --> 00:03:38,840 And then like we have a formula that we used 54 00:03:38,919 --> 00:03:41,719 in order to do this. It was my understanding that 55 00:03:41,759 --> 00:03:43,919 there would be no math, right, and so now I'm 56 00:03:43,919 --> 00:03:51,719 doing math like man, guys. And apparently the formula is 57 00:03:53,360 --> 00:04:01,840 trade deficit divided by imports. That's it. So it's not 58 00:04:01,879 --> 00:04:06,960 looking at currency manipulation. It's not looking at you know, 59 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:10,400 non tariff protectionism. It's not looking at things that I remember. 60 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,000 The big one years ago was like something about Japanese 61 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,719 baseball bats. Remember this one where they wouldn't allow any 62 00:04:15,759 --> 00:04:18,600 of the Louisville Slugger bats to be sold in Japan. 63 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,319 And they didn't ban them, they didn't tariff them. They 64 00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:26,519 just set specifications for the bats that made the Louisville 65 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:32,600 Slugger basically unnecessary and unwanted in Japan. And like that's 66 00:04:32,759 --> 00:04:35,759 that's another way that you go about, you know, engaging 67 00:04:35,759 --> 00:04:40,600 in this form of protectionism. So that apparently was not 68 00:04:41,319 --> 00:04:43,560 that's not the accounting it was. They just looked at 69 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:46,959 the trade deficit between the two countries and then they 70 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,959 divided it by imports and they came up with a 71 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:53,240 percentage and that's how they and that was the number 72 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,800 they used for the tariff. Like that seems pretty arbitrary. 73 00:04:56,079 --> 00:05:00,160 That's not reciprocal. What are we doing? All right, go 74 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:03,000 back to the phones here, Steve, Welcome to the show. 75 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,839 Thanks for hanging on. Hey Steve, Hey, I'm good. What's up. 76 00:05:08,079 --> 00:05:11,600 Speaker 2: I'm listening to your arguments. The bow Jangles ones doesn't 77 00:05:11,639 --> 00:05:14,519 make any sense to me. Why not talking about nation 78 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,079 states and not a transaction. When you think of Adam 79 00:05:19,120 --> 00:05:24,839 Smith and what he talked about in the Government thanks Nations. 80 00:05:25,519 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: It does make sense when trying to when I'm describing 81 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,680 a trade deficit, it is it is analogous. You have 82 00:05:32,720 --> 00:05:35,439 a trade deficit with the restaurant that you're buying. 83 00:05:35,199 --> 00:05:41,800 Speaker 2: Food from, right, Okay, but we're talking about nations now. Overall, Yes, 84 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:48,120 it's strategic to have manufacturing in the United States. I 85 00:05:48,240 --> 00:05:51,079 understand that because if you can't produce anything, you will. 86 00:05:51,199 --> 00:05:53,360 You can't make tanks one day and you can't make 87 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:54,439 armaments one day. 88 00:05:54,519 --> 00:05:54,959 Speaker 1: I agree. 89 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:58,879 Speaker 2: And they've been the globalists have been hollowing out our 90 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:03,839 country now for fifty years at least, and we don't 91 00:06:03,879 --> 00:06:07,000 make anything here. We have assembly plans. And when you 92 00:06:07,079 --> 00:06:13,000 don't have capital investment in our country, well, there are 93 00:06:13,120 --> 00:06:17,240 jobs created by high value jobs where people can go 94 00:06:17,319 --> 00:06:20,079 out to restaurants to do all those other things because 95 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:24,319 they're able to make a good coin, and people in 96 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,800 this country are not. People are struggling and what they 97 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:36,720 spend is wholly due to customer. We say, you know, 98 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,560 like our needs has posed your own ones? Are you know, 99 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,959 we used to be able to travel in things. You 100 00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:44,279 can't do that anymore because most people just have to 101 00:06:44,399 --> 00:06:47,920 support their family and get them fed. 102 00:06:48,279 --> 00:06:50,759 Speaker 1: So how do teariffs? So how do tariffs correct all 103 00:06:50,800 --> 00:06:52,600 of these problems that you've just outlined. 104 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:57,519 Speaker 2: Well, because we're reassuring our industries, right, So do you 105 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,439 know how I said this earlier? 106 00:06:59,519 --> 00:07:02,879 Speaker 1: We are America is the second largest manufacturing nation on 107 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:06,240 the planet. We manufacture more than you can disagree, but 108 00:07:06,240 --> 00:07:09,600 it's you'd be incorrect. It is the second largest behind China, 109 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:13,360 and then the third place is Japan and it's not 110 00:07:13,399 --> 00:07:17,360 even close. So like we we're number two. We also 111 00:07:17,759 --> 00:07:22,240 have about half a million unfilled manufacturing jobs in America 112 00:07:22,439 --> 00:07:22,959 every month. 113 00:07:28,279 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 2: I hear what you're saying, But we assembled. We don't 114 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,279 make things hardly anymore. We have what's the difference expensive 115 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:42,000 made in Canada in Mexico, But what is really produced here? 116 00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:44,519 What what are we doing? We're just putting parts together? 117 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:49,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, we yeah, we have higher we have higher tech manufacturing. 118 00:07:50,439 --> 00:07:53,160 We have higher we have higher technology manufacturing. Now, if 119 00:07:53,199 --> 00:07:55,319 you want to go back to an assembly line, right 120 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:59,480 kind of mentality and put everybody on an assembly line 121 00:07:59,639 --> 00:08:03,360 and high or more workers when you don't really need to, right, 122 00:08:03,360 --> 00:08:06,079 that's why I mean, that's the whole point of you 123 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:11,680 using importing pieces of the stuff that you want to assemble. 124 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:16,079 You manufacture something someplace else because people don't want those jobs. 125 00:08:16,079 --> 00:08:18,240 It could be done cheaper in a poorer country, like 126 00:08:18,279 --> 00:08:20,439 that kind of thing, and then you import that in, 127 00:08:20,959 --> 00:08:23,839 you assemble it all, you do the high tech assembly 128 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:27,639 in America, and you pay those people way more money 129 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:31,639 to do that stuff. So it's sounds, but it sounds 130 00:08:31,680 --> 00:08:33,279 so it sounds like you want to It sounds like 131 00:08:33,320 --> 00:08:35,960 you want to go back to a time where people 132 00:08:36,000 --> 00:08:39,039 were working factory line jobs. Is that it? 133 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes, you need that in this country. It's a 134 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:47,879 strategic advantage. When we were the arsenal of democracy, we 135 00:08:47,879 --> 00:08:51,759 were able to produce. We can't do that now. We 136 00:08:51,799 --> 00:08:54,919 don't have that part of our economy anymore. It's been 137 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:56,639 hollowed out and shipped off shore. 138 00:08:56,759 --> 00:08:58,600 Speaker 1: But you're talking about so wait, hang on a second, 139 00:08:58,639 --> 00:09:01,480 are you talking about military contry. 140 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:02,639 Speaker 2: I'm talking about all of it. 141 00:09:02,799 --> 00:09:06,799 Speaker 1: Well, because our military production facilities are all still here 142 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:11,960 and they're scattered all over the country in important congressional districts. 143 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,120 We're not importing that stuff. We're exporting that stuff. 144 00:09:16,559 --> 00:09:17,039 Speaker 3: Some of it. 145 00:09:19,440 --> 00:09:22,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, So yeah, I'm not that's not persuasive to me. 146 00:09:22,799 --> 00:09:25,320 I appreciate the call, Steve. All Right, So spring is 147 00:09:25,360 --> 00:09:30,679 here a time of renewal and celebrations. 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Their expert team digitizes your 156 00:09:57,480 --> 00:10:00,840 cherished family moments and transfers them onto a USB drive, 157 00:10:01,039 --> 00:10:03,279 freezing them in time so they can be enjoyed for 158 00:10:03,399 --> 00:10:06,799 generations to come. I urge you do not wait until 159 00:10:06,799 --> 00:10:10,679 it's too late this spring, celebrate your past. Visit Creative 160 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,559 Video today and let them preserve your legacy with the 161 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,480 love and care that it deserves. Creative Video Preserving Family 162 00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:20,960 Memories since nineteen ninety seven, located in mint Hill, just 163 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,080 off four eighty five, mail orders are accepted to get 164 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,720 all the details that create a video dot com. I 165 00:10:27,759 --> 00:10:30,080 do have a bunch of email, or well I have 166 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:32,720 those two. I have email, I have tweets. I got 167 00:10:32,759 --> 00:10:34,840 some callers, and I have a lot of audio, and 168 00:10:34,919 --> 00:10:38,320 I spent time getting this audio for you people, And 169 00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:40,519 you're gonna listen to No, I'm just kidding. I mean, 170 00:10:40,559 --> 00:10:43,120 if we I mean, if I can, I will in fact, here, 171 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:47,039 let me do this. This is former US Senator Pat Toomey. 172 00:10:47,320 --> 00:10:51,360 It's a doo me and uh, I don't know anyway. 173 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,919 Listen to his He was at a conference or something 174 00:10:57,279 --> 00:10:59,200 and this was like a month ago. 175 00:10:59,399 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 4: Okay, this, I'm afraid he's going to take us down 176 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,879 a bad path. Dominic. I think that we're going to 177 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:09,759 experience more aggressive tariffs than a lot of people think, 178 00:11:09,879 --> 00:11:13,320 because the president really believes that what he really wants 179 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:16,519 to go after is the trade deficits what he really 180 00:11:16,519 --> 00:11:20,360 objects to, and from all of my arguments with him, 181 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,519 I'm convinced that he believed, and if you listen to 182 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:24,679 his language, he believes that if you have a trade 183 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,399 deficit with another country, that is the measure of the 184 00:11:27,480 --> 00:11:31,799 amount that country steals from you. And that of course 185 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:35,879 disregards that we get something when we purchase products from 186 00:11:35,879 --> 00:11:39,120 other countries. Correct, but this is the way he views it. 187 00:11:39,399 --> 00:11:42,919 He thinks that the Canadians are ripping us off because 188 00:11:43,639 --> 00:11:47,000 we buy some more goods from them then they buy 189 00:11:47,000 --> 00:11:49,120 from us. By the way, the difference is fully explained 190 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:53,320 by oil imports that are quite useful and important to us. 191 00:11:53,559 --> 00:11:56,120 But this is where we are. We're going to have 192 00:11:56,159 --> 00:11:58,399 to relearn this lesson. I do think the markets are 193 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,399 going to respond very poorly if I'm right. And on 194 00:12:02,440 --> 00:12:05,360 April second, we discover that we're having a more aggressive 195 00:12:05,399 --> 00:12:08,200 round of tariffs that we expect, and then there'll be 196 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,080 fallout in the real economy as well, So at some 197 00:12:11,159 --> 00:12:13,440 point this gets pulled back. I worry about the damage 198 00:12:13,440 --> 00:12:14,159 that's done. 199 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,240 Speaker 1: Right, So that's that's my concern too, is that this 200 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,200 is rooted in a belief that Trump has that if 201 00:12:20,240 --> 00:12:23,559 there is any deficit, that that means we're getting cheated, 202 00:12:24,399 --> 00:12:28,559 and I don't agree with that. I view it as 203 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:32,440 we are purchasing stuff that another country is making that 204 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:35,960 we want a lot of. We get those goods and services, 205 00:12:36,759 --> 00:12:40,879 and we are a wealthier nation with more disposable income, 206 00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:45,360 so we are spending more money on those things. You know, 207 00:12:45,639 --> 00:12:49,320 we don't have. We don't we don't grow bananas. Honduras 208 00:12:49,399 --> 00:12:53,000 grows a lot of bananas. We're going to have to 209 00:12:53,039 --> 00:12:56,399 now grow a bunch of bananas. I guess I don't know. 210 00:12:57,399 --> 00:13:00,759 All right, we talked about comparative advantage as well, so 211 00:13:00,840 --> 00:13:04,960 like that's one of these other terms in economics that 212 00:13:05,159 --> 00:13:09,080 like a, Honduras has a better climate for growing bananas 213 00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,279 and that's their comparative advantage, and so they stick with 214 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,279 growing bananas and export the bananas and make money off 215 00:13:16,279 --> 00:13:19,919 of the banana sales, right, unless you want to say, 216 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:23,600 put the Americans into the fields and you know, start 217 00:13:23,919 --> 00:13:28,679 working the banana farms. So all right, let me go 218 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,279 back to the phones. Gary, Welcome to the show. Hey Gary, Hey, 219 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:34,360 ba hey, yeah, yeah, Yeah, what's up? 220 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:38,519 Speaker 5: Okay, I have a few things on it. I think one, 221 00:13:38,960 --> 00:13:42,480 Trump's the first person to address what we had happened 222 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,360 through NaSTA and free trade with China. Yeah, and you 223 00:13:45,399 --> 00:13:48,840 did a good job of explaining the difference between free 224 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:51,600 trade and fair trade because in the reality is, we 225 00:13:51,759 --> 00:13:55,440 exported six million jobs from America from the nineties to 226 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,759 two thousands. We sent them overseas. When we sent them 227 00:13:59,759 --> 00:14:04,639 to we sent child labor and slave wages. So we're 228 00:14:04,639 --> 00:14:08,960 buying cheap electronics made by people either in factories where 229 00:14:09,039 --> 00:14:12,480 they have nets to keep them from killing theirself, or 230 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:14,039 anytime you have kids. 231 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:14,440 Speaker 6: You know. 232 00:14:14,879 --> 00:14:18,799 Speaker 5: Now he's the famous example of it. Yeah, of their labor, labor, 233 00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:22,519 abuse of labor overseas. So I think part of it 234 00:14:22,559 --> 00:14:23,399 is addressing that. 235 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,279 Speaker 1: And I'm fine with that, Yeah, I know, and I'm fine. Yeah, 236 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,159 I'm fine with using tariffs as a weapon to get 237 00:14:31,399 --> 00:14:34,879 countries to not use child and slave labor. 238 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:39,279 Speaker 5: Right. And many people when they say free, free trade, 239 00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:41,519 they never want to address that we export our middle 240 00:14:41,519 --> 00:14:47,879 class and that we're benefiting from labor exploitation of other countries. 241 00:14:47,879 --> 00:14:49,200 They're fine with that as long. 242 00:14:49,120 --> 00:14:50,279 Speaker 2: As they get cheap TVs. 243 00:14:50,320 --> 00:14:53,279 Speaker 5: And I think it was that's it that said let 244 00:14:53,320 --> 00:14:56,440 them eat flat screens. In other words, we're importing cheap 245 00:14:56,480 --> 00:15:01,399 stuff from other countries and it's wative of them. But 246 00:15:01,519 --> 00:15:04,240 where I don't think our middle class and as a whole, 247 00:15:04,559 --> 00:15:06,240 we're better off than we were in the nineties. 248 00:15:06,759 --> 00:15:11,279 Speaker 1: We we we we we do have in total a 249 00:15:11,399 --> 00:15:14,919 higher standard of living. I mean, I think a lot 250 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:19,080 of people don't realize that. I mean the the average American, 251 00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,120 like the I think a poor American has a higher 252 00:15:22,159 --> 00:15:25,240 standard of living than a middle class brit for example, 253 00:15:26,200 --> 00:15:28,120 their own homes and stuff like. 254 00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:32,519 Speaker 5: That's but we did that in the in the nineties also, 255 00:15:32,840 --> 00:15:37,200 and we had less people working multiple jobs. Now you 256 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,840 have people doing uber and you know, door dash and things, 257 00:15:41,840 --> 00:15:45,960 and you want to count that as productivity. But I mean, 258 00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:48,120 are those people doing that because they have to because 259 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,360 they don't have a job that provides for them. But 260 00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:54,080 it's you've been You've been in North Carolina since early 261 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,200 two thousands, so you saw, you know, we our cotton mills, 262 00:15:58,240 --> 00:16:03,279 our country plants, every thing. We destroyed economies in this 263 00:16:03,399 --> 00:16:06,600 state and in South Carolina. And then at the same 264 00:16:06,679 --> 00:16:10,399 time you have the opioid epidemic hitting at the same time. 265 00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 1: Well, I hope you had epidemic hit a little hit 266 00:16:13,759 --> 00:16:16,240 hit about a decade later. But no, I get your point. 267 00:16:16,279 --> 00:16:17,159 I mean this is these are. 268 00:16:17,159 --> 00:16:19,320 Speaker 5: Now in the early two thousands, you started having oxy 269 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:19,960 cotton everywhere. 270 00:16:21,399 --> 00:16:24,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, but that when And NAFTA was in the early nineties, right. 271 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:27,919 Speaker 5: Right, But the China, I believe was in the early 272 00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:29,080 two thousands. 273 00:16:29,440 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: Well, the most Favored nation status for Yeah, Look, you're 274 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:35,919 not going to get me to defend NAFTA or or 275 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:39,759 the Chinese trade deals. And look Donald Trump renegotiated NAFTA 276 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,480 and now he's slapping them with more tariffs. 277 00:16:43,039 --> 00:16:46,120 Speaker 5: Right yeah, And I mean his message is muddied. I 278 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,320 think if he was more discipline and he was like, hey, 279 00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:50,559 we're going to do ten percent and we're going to 280 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,639 bring back a percentage of manufacturer because you look at 281 00:16:53,639 --> 00:16:56,720 South Carolina. You look at what BMW's done for South Carolina, 282 00:16:56,919 --> 00:17:00,759 right account with them and everybody else. They transformed that economy. 283 00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,559 You have a port, you have an inland port, they 284 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,680 do like five percent of the state's manufacturer and it's 285 00:17:06,720 --> 00:17:07,799 connected to BMW. 286 00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:11,599 Speaker 1: Yeah, I believe it. I believe it. Garret I Carolina. Yeah, 287 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,640 I gotta run great points, sir. I appreciate the call. 288 00:17:13,680 --> 00:17:16,000 Good to talk with you. Here's a great idea. How 289 00:17:16,039 --> 00:17:19,119 about making an escape to a really special and secluded 290 00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:21,960 getaway in western North Carolina. Just a quick drive up 291 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:25,160 the mountain and Cabins of Asheville is your connection. Whether 292 00:17:25,160 --> 00:17:28,079 you're celebrating an anniversary, a honeymoon, maybe you want to 293 00:17:28,079 --> 00:17:30,920 plan a memorable proposal, or get family and friends together 294 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,680 for a big old reunion. Cabins of Asheville has the 295 00:17:33,759 --> 00:17:36,559 ideal spot for you where you can reconnect with your 296 00:17:36,599 --> 00:17:39,799 loved ones and the things that truly matter. Nestled within 297 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:43,440 the breath taking fourteen thousand acres of the Pisga National Forest, 298 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:46,480 their cabins offer a serene escape in the heart of 299 00:17:46,519 --> 00:17:49,519 the Blue Ridge Mountains. 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Call or text eight two eight, 308 00:18:20,079 --> 00:18:23,319 three six, seven seventy sixty eight or check out all 309 00:18:23,319 --> 00:18:25,960 there is to offer at Cabins of Aashville dot com 310 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,759 and make memories that'll last a lifetime. Bruce, Welcome to 311 00:18:29,839 --> 00:18:32,880 the program. Hello Bruce, Hi, Hey. 312 00:18:33,119 --> 00:18:35,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, I have experience in a couple of areas on 313 00:18:35,759 --> 00:18:38,240 this I work for the Department of Economic Development in 314 00:18:38,319 --> 00:18:40,599 Iowa and I work for Wells Fargo as ninety person, 315 00:18:41,279 --> 00:18:45,359 and frequently what a Department of Economic Development would do 316 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,200 is give grants to companies to hire people. So many 317 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,279 of the grants, like will Starvogetz, are you come from 318 00:18:51,279 --> 00:18:54,640 the taxpayers, just you know, to give jobs people, which 319 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:58,599 is a good thing to simulate an economy. But we're 320 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:02,960 kind of doing this passing the taking the can down 321 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:06,599 the road. My family also worked in the cotton mills 322 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,240 in Alabama, and I have to know, I'm kind of 323 00:19:09,279 --> 00:19:11,480 sad when I drive through town here, I see a 324 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,960 lot of these cool building, brick buildings that used to 325 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,680 be in the mill community, and that whole industry left. 326 00:19:16,839 --> 00:19:20,440 And then I guess the home decoration, you know, the 327 00:19:20,519 --> 00:19:22,519 furniture business. A lot of that went to China too, 328 00:19:23,039 --> 00:19:25,759 so we lose those. But then we need government money 329 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,119 to come in and give people jobs like a well 330 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:31,200 Fargo you know, or wherever, and not to I'm just 331 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:32,599 saying there's something nicked. 332 00:19:34,039 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 6: I know. 333 00:19:34,240 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 3: It's opportunity, it's lower costs, you know, for labor. It's 334 00:19:37,519 --> 00:19:40,440 it's always playing some kind of game behind the scenes. 335 00:19:40,559 --> 00:19:42,200 And I don't know how long we can keep doing that. 336 00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:43,839 That's that's my point, right. 337 00:19:43,759 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: So, right, So, the the concept has always been the 338 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:53,319 proverbial rising tide lifting all boats. Right, That's always been 339 00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:59,079 the idea that if another nation is developing, they don't 340 00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:03,440 have the wealth, but they can do they can do work. 341 00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,799 That when we were not a developed nation, that we 342 00:20:07,799 --> 00:20:11,720 were developing, right, that we were growing, and so we 343 00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:16,279 had a lot of low skilled labor jobs. But as 344 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:20,920 the country became wealthier and wealthier and educate more educated 345 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,079 and all of that, then you have people that don't 346 00:20:23,079 --> 00:20:25,359 want to do the jobs. The jobs don't pay enough 347 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:29,039 because at the end, right, you've got like let's say 348 00:20:29,039 --> 00:20:33,119 a textile company, they're making T shirts, and if you 349 00:20:33,279 --> 00:20:37,680 have to pay people more than the cost of the 350 00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,039 products you're selling, right, you're going to go out of business. 351 00:20:40,119 --> 00:20:43,160 So you have to be able to contain your labor costs. 352 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,720 And if you are in a wealthy society with a 353 00:20:46,839 --> 00:20:50,400 high cost of living and high standard of living, then 354 00:20:50,559 --> 00:20:55,240 that's then going to mean you cannot produce the product 355 00:20:55,519 --> 00:20:58,799 for a price that doesn't bankrupt you. And that's why 356 00:20:58,839 --> 00:21:01,799 you would ship your production into a to another country, 357 00:21:02,079 --> 00:21:06,440 right to make these goods that are low skill, labor 358 00:21:06,480 --> 00:21:11,079 intensive and you can find people that to them, that 359 00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:14,440 is a better uh, that's a better option for them 360 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,480 to take that job than in a country like ours. 361 00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:20,839 Speaker 3: Right, right, And so that would be I think, I 362 00:21:20,839 --> 00:21:23,039 think it would be great if you know, we let's 363 00:21:23,039 --> 00:21:26,640 say we would help Mexico do some manufacture for cheaper labor, 364 00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,480 but they wouldn't be sabotaging our country with you know, 365 00:21:30,799 --> 00:21:33,680 the drugs, right and their issues. 366 00:21:33,559 --> 00:21:35,680 Speaker 1: Right, and if you use the tear if Trump is 367 00:21:35,759 --> 00:21:39,680 using the tariffs in order to try to extract concessions 368 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,039 on you know, non economic things like you know, the 369 00:21:43,079 --> 00:21:46,319 war on drugs and the cartels. Again, like I understand 370 00:21:46,359 --> 00:21:47,759 that being a useful tool. 371 00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. 372 00:21:49,799 --> 00:21:51,160 Speaker 3: The only thing I would say about the kind of 373 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:52,880 industry though, it's kind of I think it may be 374 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:55,480 unique in this way. The mom Mom was really proud 375 00:21:55,519 --> 00:21:58,319 of working for the mills. She had little samples of 376 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,200 the cloth they made. The quality was amazing, much better 377 00:22:01,240 --> 00:22:05,039 than the stuff that we get from China. Yeah. But anyway, well, 378 00:22:05,119 --> 00:22:06,279 there's a lot of I have a lot of pride. 379 00:22:06,279 --> 00:22:08,039 I don't know how other people feel they lived in 380 00:22:08,079 --> 00:22:08,720 this area. 381 00:22:08,559 --> 00:22:11,359 Speaker 1: But oh yeah, no, absolutely. I remember when the mill 382 00:22:11,440 --> 00:22:14,839 up in Kannapolis closed and I went up there as 383 00:22:14,839 --> 00:22:17,359 a reporter and you know, spoke with the people that 384 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,599 were up there and like, yeah, and here, but here's 385 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:25,200 the thing. If the if people purchasing the product don't 386 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:29,359 care about the high quality of the fabric that they 387 00:22:29,519 --> 00:22:31,960 they're willing to buy something that is of a of 388 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,839 a lower quality. That again, that's the market telling you 389 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,039 that they don't value that kind of quality in a 390 00:22:39,039 --> 00:22:42,519 T shirt. They they're totally fine buying a T shirt 391 00:22:42,519 --> 00:22:45,160 for five bucks that they will wear for a year 392 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:48,039 or two and then throw away. And you know, you 393 00:22:48,119 --> 00:22:50,319 may personally not like it or object to that and 394 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,440 the wastefulness of it or whatever, but the market is 395 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,720 sending those signals. And the market is you, the market 396 00:22:56,799 --> 00:22:59,359 is me. The market is just all of us deciding 397 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:00,720 what we wanted any given moment. 398 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:02,880 Speaker 3: You know, well, I appreciate to me. 399 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:04,759 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, yes, sir, thanks for the call, Bruce, 400 00:23:04,759 --> 00:23:07,599 I appreciate it. So let me play some of these clips. 401 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,599 This is Scott Besson on CNN with Caitlin Collins. He 402 00:23:12,640 --> 00:23:14,960 said Trump has been a proponent of tariffs for a 403 00:23:15,039 --> 00:23:18,599 very long time, and the calculations were determined based on 404 00:23:18,640 --> 00:23:23,839 the tariffs. Other countries have on American goods and services. 405 00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:25,240 Speaker 6: As important or sometimes more importantly? What are the non 406 00:23:25,319 --> 00:23:29,640 tariff barriers? Is their currency manipulation? And is there unfair 407 00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:33,599 subsidy to labor or finance cost? 408 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:35,960 Speaker 7: Yeah, and when you look at this on the reciprocal 409 00:23:36,000 --> 00:23:38,640 tariffs themselves, how did you come up with the calculation? 410 00:23:39,079 --> 00:23:42,000 Essentially in terms of what this looks like for each country? 411 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:44,960 Because obviously we're looking at the numbers here, there are 412 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:45,599 different ones. 413 00:23:45,839 --> 00:23:48,599 Speaker 1: How did I let me just stop right there, just 414 00:23:48,680 --> 00:23:51,440 ask the question. Don't explain all of this stuff, Just 415 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:53,559 how did you come up with the calculation? That's the question? 416 00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:55,720 And she asked it, and then she's backfilling, giving him 417 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:57,480 all this time to think about his answer. Just ask 418 00:23:57,519 --> 00:23:59,640 the question and put him on the spot. You'll get 419 00:23:59,680 --> 00:24:00,480 a better see. 420 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 7: Some of the countries disputing some of these reciprocal terror 421 00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:05,599 saying that's not actually what we charge. What would your 422 00:24:05,599 --> 00:24:06,319 response to that be? 423 00:24:06,759 --> 00:24:11,079 Speaker 6: Well, I can tell you USTR has the volumes of 424 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:14,240 data and they've been doing it a long time, so 425 00:24:14,839 --> 00:24:19,079 and all this will probably be challenged in court. And 426 00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:24,799 I think that USTR and Trump's first administration won over 427 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,559 four thousand lawsuits so I think the data is very robust. 428 00:24:28,839 --> 00:24:34,680 Speaker 1: Okay. Next up, can nations negotiate on these tariff rates 429 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:35,519 that are set? 430 00:24:35,759 --> 00:24:38,240 Speaker 6: Well, I think the mindset is let's just see where 431 00:24:38,279 --> 00:24:42,079 we are and then we'll see how President Trump feels. 432 00:24:41,839 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 3: About all this. 433 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:45,079 Speaker 7: Okay. So it's essentially up to President Trump if he's 434 00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,759 in the mood to negotiate with some of these ques. 435 00:24:47,759 --> 00:24:56,200 Speaker 6: Well, I mean, it's not the mood, it's how how 436 00:24:56,319 --> 00:24:59,440 are we seeing things. I think the real thing is 437 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,519 going to be and that he's going to gauge the 438 00:25:02,799 --> 00:25:05,799 tariff level by It won't be necessarily to calls from 439 00:25:05,799 --> 00:25:09,359 the leaders. It's going to be the calls from industry saying, okay, 440 00:25:09,359 --> 00:25:11,319 how can we get these off? And he's going to say, 441 00:25:11,319 --> 00:25:13,880 you can get it all. Bring your factory to the US. 442 00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: Okay. So there's the repatriation argument to bring the manufacturing back. 443 00:25:20,839 --> 00:25:23,480 Here's another one of my concerns though, is that whenever 444 00:25:23,519 --> 00:25:29,559 you start doing these tariffs, industries, businesses and such they 445 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:35,400 start clamoring for through lobbyists, through a for relief for exemptions, 446 00:25:36,319 --> 00:25:39,480 and so the big companies and the ones who have 447 00:25:39,519 --> 00:25:46,000 the most power the most access, they get exemptions and 448 00:25:46,160 --> 00:25:50,640 smaller operators do not. That's also part of what happens 449 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,359 with tariffs. All right, if you're listening to this show, 450 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:54,920 you know I try to keep up with all sorts 451 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:56,960 of current events, and I know you do too, And 452 00:25:57,079 --> 00:26:01,880 you've probably heard me say get your news from multiple Why. Well, 453 00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:04,599 because it's how you detect media bias, which is why 454 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,839 I've been so impressed with ground News. It's an app, 455 00:26:08,039 --> 00:26:11,240 and it's a website, and it combines news from around 456 00:26:11,279 --> 00:26:13,680 the world in one place, so you can compare coverage 457 00:26:13,920 --> 00:26:16,640 and verify information. You can check it out at check 458 00:26:16,880 --> 00:26:21,119 dot ground, dot news, slash pete. I put the link 459 00:26:21,119 --> 00:26:24,240 in the podcast description too. I started using ground News 460 00:26:24,279 --> 00:26:27,000 a few months ago and more recently chose to work 461 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,039 with them as an affiliate because it lets me see 462 00:26:29,079 --> 00:26:32,920 clearly how stories get covered and by whom. The blind 463 00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:35,720 spot feature shows you which stories get ignored by the 464 00:26:35,839 --> 00:26:39,519 left and the right. See for yourself. Check dot ground, 465 00:26:39,720 --> 00:26:43,400 dot news slash pete. Subscribe through that link and you'll 466 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,599 get fifteen percent off any subscription. I use the Vantage 467 00:26:46,599 --> 00:26:50,079 plan to get unlimited access to every feature. Your subscription 468 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,880 then not only helps my podcast, but it also supports 469 00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,200 ground News as they make the media landscape more transparent. 470 00:26:57,039 --> 00:27:00,279 Back to this interview that Scott Bessen, Treasury Secretary, did 471 00:27:00,319 --> 00:27:06,400 with Caitlin Collins on CNN, and Besson said that when 472 00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:08,640 you've got these other countries that have been doing it 473 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,319 to us for a long time, and he says, if 474 00:27:12,319 --> 00:27:16,039 they're so bad, then why do they do them to us. 475 00:27:16,519 --> 00:27:18,240 Speaker 6: One of the messages that I'd like to get out 476 00:27:18,279 --> 00:27:22,079 tonight is everybody, sit back, take a deep breath, don't 477 00:27:22,079 --> 00:27:26,839 immediately retaliate. Let's see where this goes. Because if you retaliate, 478 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:27,720 that's how we get. 479 00:27:27,759 --> 00:27:30,880 Speaker 7: Escalation, and then it becomes a full fledged trade war. 480 00:27:30,920 --> 00:27:34,759 Speaker 6: In your view, not a trade war depends on the country. 481 00:27:35,079 --> 00:27:41,680 But remember that the history of trade is we are 482 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:47,039 the deficit country. The deficit country has an advantage. They 483 00:27:47,079 --> 00:27:51,400 are the surplus countries. The surplus countries traditionally always lose 484 00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:54,720 any kind of a trade escalation. So I, as a 485 00:27:54,759 --> 00:27:57,920 student of economic history or a professor of economic history, 486 00:27:58,000 --> 00:27:58,920 I devise against it. 487 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: Okay, body, just relax. We're putting these massive tariffs on you. 488 00:28:04,519 --> 00:28:09,359 Just don't respond. This is what I mean. Like, the 489 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:15,400 messaging here is not inspiring confidence. He was then asked 490 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:20,599 why the global ten percent baseline that's not very targeted. 491 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,440 Speaker 6: Right, go back all the way to Alexander Hamilton. Alexander 492 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,960 Hamilton used them to raise revenue. He used them to 493 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,480 protect the industry. And President Trump is at at the 494 00:28:29,519 --> 00:28:32,880 third leg of the stool, which is strategic. So you know, 495 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:37,079 if we are thinking about a ten percent global tariff, 496 00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:43,559 and let's assume we we import about three trillion a year, 497 00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:49,039 so that's three hundred billion, and that's a substantial revenue 498 00:28:49,119 --> 00:28:52,640 raiser that could then be used for working Americans on 499 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,160 no tax and tips, no tax on sod security, no 500 00:28:55,319 --> 00:28:59,960 tax on overtime. And for those buying autos they can 501 00:29:00,039 --> 00:29:05,279 and reduce their bills because interest on American made cars 502 00:29:05,319 --> 00:29:08,440 will be tax deductible. So this is really a working 503 00:29:08,559 --> 00:29:13,920 class the tariff and tax plan. 504 00:29:16,039 --> 00:29:19,799 Speaker 1: Yeah, he didn't stick that landing very well. Yeah, I 505 00:29:20,200 --> 00:29:22,960 don't understand, like you're gonna go, okay, so you're going 506 00:29:23,039 --> 00:29:25,559 to know, tax on tips and all these other things, 507 00:29:25,559 --> 00:29:28,279 but the people paying for the tariffs when this stuff 508 00:29:28,319 --> 00:29:31,519 comes into America, they're going to be paying the tariff 509 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:35,839 because tariffs are taxes, unless, of course, they can get 510 00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,640 the the companies to eat those costs, right, those other 511 00:29:42,279 --> 00:29:44,680 companies located outside of America that they're going to have 512 00:29:44,759 --> 00:29:47,039 to absorb the costs, they're going to take lower profits. Right, 513 00:29:47,079 --> 00:29:49,119 So three hundred billion dollars in revenue to the US 514 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,960 government coffers, that's what he says. Who's paying that? We 515 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:58,319 don't know American consumers. The company that's importing it into America. 516 00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:05,599 Will American company raised their prices to meet the importers prices? Right? Like, 517 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,960 if my competitor is an overseas company and they just 518 00:30:09,039 --> 00:30:12,480 got nailed with a tariff, so now their product coming 519 00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,440 into America is more expensive, Can I raise my price 520 00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:17,240 closer to theirs? You know, I'll still keep it a 521 00:30:17,279 --> 00:30:20,839 little bit lower, but I now can get bigger profits. No, 522 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:25,119 So what does that mean for the consumer that was 523 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:29,119 getting my product at a lower cost before? Now I'm 524 00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:34,359 raising my price to meet the foreign companies? See what 525 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,440 I mean? This is also complex, And this is the 526 00:30:36,519 --> 00:30:40,039 other part about this kind of approach that worries me, 527 00:30:40,119 --> 00:30:44,400 is that I am a believer in free market capitalism 528 00:30:44,599 --> 00:30:47,240 because it is free, it is you, it is me, 529 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,839 it is us all at the same time, different times, 530 00:30:49,839 --> 00:30:53,200 making all sorts of decisions, sending all sorts of market signals, right, 531 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,279 creative destruction, all of that. And it is the fatal 532 00:30:57,359 --> 00:31:04,599 conceit of bureauets and experts, technocrats, progressives generally that they 533 00:31:04,599 --> 00:31:08,759 can control this stuff. This was the problem with communism, 534 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:12,039 is the problem with communism and Marxist economies and such 535 00:31:12,079 --> 00:31:14,480 is that they think that they can orchestrate all of 536 00:31:14,519 --> 00:31:19,000 these things from the top down. And that's the beauty 537 00:31:19,000 --> 00:31:21,599 of the free market is that it doesn't require top 538 00:31:21,720 --> 00:31:25,519 down central planners. This is the wisdom of the crowd, 539 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:29,319 right that everybody together is going to be smarter than 540 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:32,440 even the smartest guy at the very top that's making 541 00:31:32,480 --> 00:31:36,240 decisions for everybody. They cannot possibly know all of the 542 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:43,680 inputs for every single purchase. Finally, oh, as more Americans 543 00:31:44,279 --> 00:31:47,960 this is still scot pssent or best and as more 544 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:52,599 Americans buy goods that are not taxed with these tariffs, 545 00:31:53,559 --> 00:31:56,400 right to avoid the tariff and avoid these products coming 546 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,680 in or the products just don't get imported and we 547 00:31:58,759 --> 00:32:00,759 just don't have access to them. That's the other thing here. 548 00:32:00,759 --> 00:32:02,640 We may not like some things. You just might not 549 00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:05,839 see anymore. I may not be available for purchase in 550 00:32:05,839 --> 00:32:10,400 your local store because the tariffs are too high. But 551 00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:14,759 if people now stop spending the money on those products, 552 00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:18,799 doesn't that reduce revenue to the US government? 553 00:32:19,839 --> 00:32:22,680 Speaker 6: Policy done properly is a shrinking ice cube, because what 554 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:27,599 will happen. We will start out with high tariff income, 555 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:30,920 but then as the factories come to the US, we 556 00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:34,799 will have more business income, and we'll have more paycheck 557 00:32:34,839 --> 00:32:38,359 income because American workers will be earning. So you would 558 00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,279 see it's a rebalancing, So we rebalance away from tariffs 559 00:32:42,519 --> 00:32:44,279 to more domestic income. 560 00:32:46,119 --> 00:32:51,039 Speaker 1: So that's the idea, or an idea. We'll see if 561 00:32:51,039 --> 00:32:54,720 it works. Great experiment going on here, and we are 562 00:32:54,759 --> 00:32:57,000 all the guinea pigs. Let's see how it turns out. 563 00:32:57,119 --> 00:32:59,480 Let me get to some emails. Robert says, how much 564 00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:03,759 of these problems just go away when manufacturing companies come 565 00:33:03,839 --> 00:33:07,240 back here? Isn't that the goal? I assume that's one 566 00:33:07,319 --> 00:33:10,960 of the goals. But I have heard a lot of 567 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:15,240 different reasons for these tariffs. And you heard Pat Toomey 568 00:33:15,279 --> 00:33:17,599 talking about his conversations with Donald Trump. Is that he 569 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:20,160 really just does believe that if there is any kind 570 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,200 of a trade deficit, it means that we're getting ripped off. 571 00:33:24,359 --> 00:33:29,920 And I believe I disagree, and I believe that that 572 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:35,640 represents a fundamental misunderstanding of trade. I do like that's 573 00:33:35,799 --> 00:33:38,200 because that's not what I gave the equation earlier. If 574 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:40,480 I go into a restaurant, I buy food, I'm not 575 00:33:40,519 --> 00:33:48,079 getting ripped off. I'm buying something. That's it. The let's see, 576 00:33:48,079 --> 00:33:50,599 Scott says, I didn't want to send you a link, 577 00:33:51,079 --> 00:33:54,640 took a screenshot. These are the tariffs Canada had on 578 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,000 our products before Trump took office, two hundred and fifty 579 00:33:57,000 --> 00:33:59,200 to three hundred percent on dairy products. And that's with 580 00:33:59,319 --> 00:34:01,920 quote free trade. So as I understand it, the the 581 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:06,519 dairy tariffs kicked in after a certain level. I want 582 00:34:06,519 --> 00:34:09,920 to say, so as to prevent flooding the market, right 583 00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:13,199 and putting the Canadian growers out of business and all that. 584 00:34:15,079 --> 00:34:16,920 And so if you want, and I've said this from 585 00:34:16,960 --> 00:34:20,159 the beginning, if you're going to do actual free trade 586 00:34:20,159 --> 00:34:26,320 agreements and you want reciprocal actually reciprocal trades, like you 587 00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,760 tax us ten percent, We're going to tax you ten percent. 588 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:34,760 That's fair, right, But the figures that we have seen 589 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,559 and how they arrived at the numbers that they threw 590 00:34:38,599 --> 00:34:44,440 out there yesterday does not seem reciprocal. The people who 591 00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,280 have been crunching these numbers over the last sixteen hours, 592 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,599 they're like, this number is based on the defici, the 593 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:54,280 trade deficit divided by imports. It's like, that's not how 594 00:34:54,559 --> 00:34:58,239 you would determine what the tariffs actually are. And this 595 00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:01,000 gets very complex because you've got, like you say, you've 596 00:35:01,039 --> 00:35:03,599 got you've got dairy, you got lumber, you got all 597 00:35:03,639 --> 00:35:06,199 these different sectors that have different tariffs all over them. 598 00:35:07,079 --> 00:35:10,000 That's not for everything, right, We're selling stuff in there 599 00:35:10,039 --> 00:35:12,440 that is duty free, and they're selling stuff into us 600 00:35:12,480 --> 00:35:14,599 that's duty free. But then there are other things that aren't. 601 00:35:15,159 --> 00:35:20,360 So a global universal ten percent plus an additional twenty 602 00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,320 percent or whatever it is that's not targeted. You know, 603 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:30,119 that's another that's another problem. Companies and countries move means 604 00:35:30,119 --> 00:35:35,760 of production around the world. Tariffs must be anticipatory, says Bob, 605 00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:40,199 and Seth says Pete. You can't trust people regarding the 606 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,280 tariffs on that Penguin island. You can't trust people that 607 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:51,280 wear tuxedos twenty four to seven. Trust me if I can. Okay, 608 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:54,159 let's see here, this is hang on. Kevin says, this 609 00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:57,760 tariff move is meant to get other countries to drop 610 00:35:57,800 --> 00:36:01,719 their tariffs and get US goods into other countries, thereby 611 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,320 spurring US industry. I'm ninety percent sure this is a 612 00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:09,000 genuine move, because if it's not, it becomes a tax 613 00:36:09,039 --> 00:36:11,679 on the poor and the sixty percent of US consumers 614 00:36:11,679 --> 00:36:16,079 living paycheck to paycheck. The wealthy can deal with price increases, 615 00:36:16,159 --> 00:36:19,159 but many more cannot deal with even a ten percent 616 00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:24,039 increase in the cost of living. Yeah. Again, I said 617 00:36:24,039 --> 00:36:25,880 this in the first hour, and if you're just tuning in, 618 00:36:26,039 --> 00:36:29,360 you didn't hear it, which is I don't know how 619 00:36:29,360 --> 00:36:32,360 this is going to shake out. I recognize my bias 620 00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:38,760 is opposition to tariffs, because that has been the conventional wisdom, 621 00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:44,760 the understanding of economists and everyone has been pretty much 622 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:48,159 in agreement that these things are like the smooth Hally 623 00:36:48,199 --> 00:36:51,400 Act terr effect from nineteen thirty it was like, that's 624 00:36:51,440 --> 00:36:56,199 the or thirty seven whatever. It was, catastrophic, prolonged, the 625 00:36:56,199 --> 00:37:02,119 Great Depression reduces global trade, and in and of itself, 626 00:37:02,159 --> 00:37:04,519 as a me if it's the end in and of itself, 627 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:09,280 like that's not a good thing. But if we're going 628 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:11,639 to run an experiment to find out is that really 629 00:37:11,639 --> 00:37:16,119 the case. Well, we're gonna find out. That's what I 630 00:37:16,119 --> 00:37:19,559 said from the very beginning. My bias is to be 631 00:37:19,719 --> 00:37:22,519 very concerned at what I am seeing with the tariffs 632 00:37:22,519 --> 00:37:25,679 and in the way that they've been conjured and the way 633 00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:31,039 they've been applied, because the risks seem to be very, 634 00:37:31,159 --> 00:37:35,920 very large. But if you can make them beneficial, if 635 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,440 you can extract concessions and turn this thing into a 636 00:37:38,519 --> 00:37:41,679 positive for America, then okay, I will start thinking about 637 00:37:41,679 --> 00:37:44,960 tariffs in a brand new way. All right. That'll do 638 00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,559 it for this episode. Thank you so much for listening. 639 00:37:47,639 --> 00:37:49,800 I could not do the show without your support and 640 00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:52,559 the support of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, 641 00:37:52,920 --> 00:37:55,000 so if you'd like, please support them too and tell 642 00:37:55,039 --> 00:37:56,760 them you heard it here. You can also become a 643 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,599 patron at my Patreon page or go to the Pete 644 00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:02,360 callen Our show dot com. Again, thank you so much 645 00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:08,840 for listening, and uh, don't break anything while I'm gone.