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Speaker 3: He was the first and he's still the best. For
Speaker 3: thirty years. Tom Gresham has been your trusted source on
Speaker 3: all things Mollistic, new guns, Second Amendment, personal protection, deep
Speaker 3: part of it, Paul, Tom talk Gun. Now here's Tom.
Speaker 4: Well, let's time to do this thing again. And I'm
Speaker 4: Tom Gresham. I am your host. You can give me
Speaker 4: a call at anytime. I'm actually looking for calls.
Speaker 5: Today.
Speaker 4: We kind of cleared the deck doing something a little
Speaker 4: bit different, maybe a little bit experimental, having fewer guests
Speaker 4: today so we can have more callers. That'd be you
Speaker 4: talking about well anything actually, and I have a couple
Speaker 4: of subjects. We're going to be bringing up something right
Speaker 4: out of the news that just happened within the last
Speaker 4: twenty four hours and then we're going to be talking
Speaker 4: about well different things.
Speaker 5: Going to the rains.
Speaker 4: I went out did a little shooting, actually a couple
Speaker 4: of times this week. Shot in an old competition. Yesterday.
Speaker 4: I learned some things, not all good. I mean, they
Speaker 4: were good things to learn, but they weren't good things
Speaker 4: about my shooting. That's a whole different thing. But yeah,
Speaker 4: I'll confess. I'll talk about that right now. And yeah,
Speaker 4: by the way, if you want to call, give me
Speaker 4: a call that Tom Talk Gun. That's the easy way
Speaker 4: to remember the number here. As you know I are
Speaker 4: probably know, I'm in Idaho. I live in Idaho. Last well,
Speaker 4: in the last twenty four hours yesterday, in the lovely
Speaker 4: town of Twin Falls, Idaho, which is a great place
Speaker 4: that'll spend a fair amount of time. In Twin Falls,
Speaker 4: a young man decided to murder people. It's as simple
Speaker 4: as that. You can call it whatever description you want,
Speaker 4: but he decided he's going to take his what appeared
Speaker 4: to be an ar his rifle. And we've got video.
Speaker 4: I mean, we're looking at the video. If you haven't
Speaker 4: heard about this, haven't seen it, you need to look
Speaker 4: it up. He's in the parking lot of an in
Speaker 4: and out Burger, which I guess opened a week or
Speaker 4: two ago, and he's shooting through the windshield of at
Speaker 4: least one tesla, maybe more. Can't tell if they're in
Speaker 4: the charging stations or if the people in it, because
Speaker 4: if they're in a charging station that can't drive away,
Speaker 4: he can't drive over him, which would have been the
Speaker 4: logical thing to just run over his sorry ass. He's
Speaker 4: shooting through the windshiels, he's killing people. He's walking around,
Speaker 4: clearly one of those suicidal mass murder attempts. We've seen
Speaker 4: this so often, where these young, disenfranchised people decide to
Speaker 4: go out in a blaze of glory and want their
Speaker 4: name remembered, and they study stilling in Clee Bowl, they
Speaker 4: study the mass murderers, the school shooters or whatever. They
Speaker 4: want to run their numbers up. They want to be famous, which,
Speaker 4: by the way, is the reason I will never ever
Speaker 4: say their name. They haven't released the name of the
Speaker 4: murderer yet, even when they do, I will never speak
Speaker 4: the name, not only for the fact that I don't
Speaker 4: want to give him the celebrity that he was looking for,
Speaker 4: but also because to do so simply encourages more people
Speaker 4: to do exactly the same thing for them to become famous.
Speaker 4: If the media never mentioned the name of these murderers,
Speaker 4: fewer people would think they can become celebrity. He's because
Speaker 4: nobody's becoming a celebrity by doing this.
Speaker 5: But I digress.
Speaker 4: So this guy is shooting people in this parking lot,
Speaker 4: and you got all this video being posted online of
Speaker 4: people who are shooting video of the murder's taking place.
Speaker 5: They're shooting video. But one guy, one Idaho.
Speaker 4: Guy, decides he's not going to shoot video. He's going
Speaker 4: to shoot bullets back at this murderer. So he gets
Speaker 4: this pistol out, and there's a video of this and
Speaker 4: he starts weighing away. And what's interesting that when you
Speaker 4: first look at the video, you look at the image,
Speaker 4: you go, what is that?
Speaker 5: What is he shooting? How long is the barrel on
Speaker 5: that pistol? Well, we know.
Speaker 4: Now pretty sure the man's name is Jordan Salinas. In
Speaker 4: Twin Falls, it appears that he is shooting an FN
Speaker 4: pistol in five point seven millimeter with a suppressor. Yes,
Speaker 4: I said his self defense gun. His EDC gun is
Speaker 4: every day carry gun. Is a five point seven equipped
Speaker 4: with a suppressor and he is shooting at this guy.
Speaker 4: Now what we don't know at this point, and look
Speaker 4: in twenty four hours, certainly in forty eight hours we're
Speaker 4: going to know an awful lot more about this. We're
Speaker 4: very early on. We're in the fog of the whole thing.
Speaker 4: We don't know if he hit the murder. We don't
Speaker 4: know if the murder ended up killing himself, which is
Speaker 4: entirely possible. It often happens, and people say, well, if
Speaker 4: that's the case, then this guy didn't.
Speaker 5: Do any good.
Speaker 4: Oh, I'd make to differ because Jenry speaking, when these
Speaker 4: mass murderers show up to commit suicide, they kill people
Speaker 4: until somebody starts throwing bullets at them, whether it's the
Speaker 4: police or somebody else, And the moment that somebody starts
Speaker 4: shooting at them, they end up killing themselves. So clearly,
Speaker 4: the more quickly you can make that happen, more quickly
Speaker 4: somebody shows up with a gun and starts shooting at
Speaker 4: them or shooting them more quickly, you can end this thing.
Speaker 4: You can stop the murderers that are taking place. Did
Speaker 4: Jordan's allions hit him, don't know? Did he distract him?
Speaker 4: Almost certainly? Is he a good guy with a gun.
Speaker 5: Yeah, hey, is.
Speaker 4: We're learning other things about our good guy with a gun.
Speaker 4: Jordan's the lionis and some people are saying, yeah, he
Speaker 4: was one of those paranoid guys who preps all the time,
Speaker 4: because he posts videos himself with ars and the suppressed
Speaker 4: gun and he's LARPing larp if you don't know, live
Speaker 4: action role player, which the term now has become kind
Speaker 4: of a pretender, kind of a goofball.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: You know, if you're prepping and you end up using
Speaker 4: the preparation and you save lives doing it, is that
Speaker 4: something worthy of mockery or is that something worthy of saying, hey,
Speaker 4: way to go guy. And it may not have been
Speaker 4: my thing. I w wasn't out there posting those pictures,
Speaker 4: those videos. It appears that a couple of years ago
Speaker 4: jordan' slives actually posted online train as though your life
Speaker 4: depends upon it, because.
Speaker 5: It just might.
Speaker 4: What's kind of a thing we've been saying forever, Train
Speaker 4: as though your life depends on it, because your life
Speaker 4: may depend upon it, or the lives of others may
Speaker 4: depend on it. I know people say, wait, I can
Speaker 4: never imagine I can never imagine needing to use a
Speaker 4: pistol to shoot somebody at thirty five or fifty yards.
Speaker 6: Uh huh.
Speaker 4: I can never imagine using a pistol against somebody with
Speaker 4: a rifle. I can never imagine having a suppressor on
Speaker 4: my carry gun. As I've said many times before, I
Speaker 4: think a lot of people need better imaginations. You cannot
Speaker 4: deal with it if you've not thought about it ahead
Speaker 4: of time, generally speaking, or at least you won't deal
Speaker 4: with it well. Jordan's Lionis had thought about it, he
Speaker 4: had imagined it, he had prepared for it, he had committed,
Speaker 4: he had trained, he was ready for it.
Speaker 5: Food for thought. Now, question I would like to throw out.
Speaker 4: Do you train at any long distances? Do you train
Speaker 4: at all? But when you train an practice? I mean
Speaker 4: I was shooting to steal a challenge yesterday with a
Speaker 4: carry gun. I'll get into more about that. A ford
Speaker 4: a quarter, It's barrel, nine millimeter nineteen eleven Commander style.
Speaker 4: In the first targets for thirty five yards. Thirty five
Speaker 4: yards that's a long way with a carry gun. So
Speaker 4: do you train like that? Do you prepare like that?
Speaker 4: And also I want to throw this thought out, and
Speaker 4: I'd love to get your take on this. The question
Speaker 4: is it time for us to revisit the conversation about
Speaker 4: having a truck gun. Would you rather have had a
Speaker 4: rifle or a pistol caliber car being in that situation.
Speaker 4: Our number here is Tom Talk Gun. I'm Tom Gresher'll
Speaker 4: be right back.
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Speaker 5: All right, Matt, right in.
Speaker 4: Here, Tom Gresham, give you a call eight six to
Speaker 4: six Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun. Pretty much open line,
Speaker 4: so obviously talking about what's going on or what just
Speaker 4: happened in Idaho with a good guy with gun stopping
Speaker 4: a bad guy with a gun who was killing people.
Speaker 4: All right, on the phones. Right now, we've got Matt.
Speaker 4: He is a Gun Talk employee or worker. He's on
Speaker 4: team gun Talk on his way back from the Goals gathering.
Speaker 5: Hey Matt, how you doing?
Speaker 6: Tom?
Speaker 5: I am great? So all right, tell people what goals
Speaker 5: was or is.
Speaker 10: So goals is the Gun Owners of America Leadership Summit,
Speaker 10: and so what is the third year they're holding this
Speaker 10: event in this last few years it was in Knoxville.
Speaker 10: This year it's in Des Moines. And what it does
Speaker 10: is they have two days Saturday and Sunday of panel
Speaker 10: discussions and some training seminar. And then in addition to it,
Speaker 10: they have a small exhibit that goes to it. And
Speaker 10: I say small because it's open to the public. It's
Speaker 10: consumer small in comparison to the Nerra Show and the
Speaker 10: exhibit hall there or Shot Show in that regard, but
Speaker 10: still it's two hundred exhibitors. So it was kind of
Speaker 10: a number of brands that showed up.
Speaker 5: So all right, was this was this your first time?
Speaker 10: This was my first one? Yes, first of the three,
Speaker 10: and then next year they're in Tampa, so probably going
Speaker 10: to head down to that as well. How was it?
Speaker 6: It was good.
Speaker 10: It was a good barometer to see, like where is
Speaker 10: the industry at what kind of consumer feedback?
Speaker 6: As well?
Speaker 10: Was curious being in Des Moines Island in the middle
Speaker 10: of the country, in the middle are you know, the
Speaker 10: end of fly beginning of August, when it's usually last
Speaker 10: minute summer vacation before school gets going. It was decently attended,
Speaker 10: I felt. I mean I was just there Saturday and
Speaker 10: coming home today. It's still on today. But talking to
Speaker 10: a lot of the brands there, I was surprised by
Speaker 10: the positive attitude. Actually, we hear a lot of news
Speaker 10: about how it's the summer slump, things slowed down. You
Speaker 10: hear some retailers and some gunshops saying it's really slowing down,
Speaker 10: customers aren't buying because of the economy. But you start
Speaker 10: talking to industry people and for the most part, the
Speaker 10: overall vibe is like, okay, yeah, it was the summer
Speaker 10: things slowed down, and we feel all right about how
Speaker 10: things were. A number of companies are saying they've had
Speaker 10: a positive year still and just more so. More than
Speaker 10: one company said they've really felt the summer slump the
Speaker 10: last two weeks. Finally June July, we're fine, but it
Speaker 10: finally slowed down, which they're like, if that's the case,
Speaker 10: we're just find it because we know that people travel
Speaker 10: in August, and frankly, a lot of schools get back
Speaker 10: going here in the next two weeks as kids go
Speaker 10: back to school. So so it felt good about it.
Speaker 10: It felt good to hear people talk about the understanding
Speaker 10: and the rational that, like, you know, we we're kind
Speaker 10: of at a new normal with the industry.
Speaker 5: What is the new normal?
Speaker 4: I mean, I should tell people you've been in the
Speaker 4: gun industry for a long time and you have worked
Speaker 4: you have worked with a lot of manufacturers and a
Speaker 4: lot of media outlets, and you understand this, and I mean,
Speaker 4: these are people you know, So when you say the
Speaker 4: new normal, what is that now?
Speaker 10: So that's a great that's yes, you're absolutely right, Tom,
Speaker 10: I kind of Ryan and I get talking about that,
Speaker 10: and it's I forget sometimes that it's not that common lingo.
Speaker 10: The new normal in terms of there's definitely seasonality to
Speaker 10: a calendar year, and so in the last five years,
Speaker 10: with all that went on in twenty twenty, twenty one,
Speaker 10: twenty two, and twenty three, really it was just massive
Speaker 10: sales going on and whatever else, and so the year
Speaker 10: never slowed down where normal year, you'll see things pick
Speaker 10: up in terms of retail sales and everything kind of
Speaker 10: going about September and it ramps up and it peaks
Speaker 10: out around shots show February, and then it falls off
Speaker 10: in May, and so you have the summer slump June,
Speaker 10: July and August because frankly, a lot of people across
Speaker 10: the entire country it's nice, so people are actually going
Speaker 10: out and using their product, which is great, it's just
Speaker 10: that they're not in the buying mood that time. In
Speaker 10: the last five years, that summer slump really has not
Speaker 10: been noticeable, where this year it's definitely been seen. That said,
Speaker 10: we're curious to start the year when with the tax
Speaker 10: stamp being adjusted and you know, going down to zero.
Speaker 10: We started the first quarter a whole lot of suppressors
Speaker 10: were sold and then tapering off and it really kind
Speaker 10: of slowed down this summer. But At the same time,
Speaker 10: I'll talk to a number of suppressor companies and they're
Speaker 10: still playing catch up on certain models of back quarter,
Speaker 10: certain things. But so the new normal in terms of
Speaker 10: back to a summer slowdown of retail sales, but the
Speaker 10: volume is just elevated from where it used to be,
Speaker 10: and so companies are kind of being able to adjust
Speaker 10: to that.
Speaker 5: Okay, good, good to know.
Speaker 4: I mean, they had this, you know whatever it was,
Speaker 4: the Trump bumped for a long time, and they're selling
Speaker 4: stuff like crazy, and then now.
Speaker 5: They're back the way it has always.
Speaker 4: Been and it has been for decades of pretty typical seasonality,
Speaker 4: end the whole thing.
Speaker 5: So in other words, they're not panicked at all.
Speaker 4: The gun companies are saying that this is fine and
Speaker 4: we're going to keep bringing out what we're bringing out.
Speaker 10: Well, yeah, I wouldn't say that across the board for everybody.
Speaker 10: There's still I would say it's mixed reviews on that.
Speaker 10: Where it is is what's interesting is the big gun
Speaker 10: companies are obviously the larger I'll just say when we
Speaker 10: say gun companies, I'm going to categorize everybody in the industry,
Speaker 10: not just firearms manufacturers, and so the large companies in
Speaker 10: the industry, they're not overly worried because they can manage that.
Speaker 10: The small companies need to manage that a lot better.
Speaker 10: That's said, when things slow down like this, when firearms
Speaker 10: sales slow down, accessories and stuff typically pick up. And
Speaker 10: that has been the case for a number of people.
Speaker 10: The people that I'm hearing the most success from our
Speaker 10: optics and accessories and pouches, and yes, suppressors had a
Speaker 10: huge Q one slowed down, but they're starting to see
Speaker 10: secondary orders, third orders coming in from retailers, so they're
Speaker 10: starting to pick back up on that case. But it's
Speaker 10: just not at the crazy volume it is. And part
Speaker 10: of that is is because people aren't feeling pressed to
Speaker 10: have to go by a suppressor because the turnaround time
Speaker 10: is so quickly now in a matter of days rather
Speaker 10: than weeks and months like it used to be. So
Speaker 10: now people can pick up a suppressor whenever they want,
Speaker 10: versus feeling the press to like I need to get
Speaker 10: my stuff in because I'm waiting. So what's going to
Speaker 10: be interesting is to watch in the next forty five
Speaker 10: days what the suppressor sales do, because as we lead
Speaker 10: into hunting season, if anybody wanted to use it for hunting,
Speaker 10: they would have placed their order back in like March
Speaker 10: or April typically. Right now, they can literally walk in
Speaker 10: on September sixth and say I'm going to buy this suppressor,
Speaker 10: and they can have it on September eighth and we
Speaker 10: go hunting with it. Right we're in.
Speaker 4: A place maybe where a suppressors are almost an impulse item,
Speaker 4: and the impulse buy.
Speaker 10: Well, there's a couple out there as priced as so
Speaker 10: many suppressors come out in our the lower tier pricing structure. Absolutely, Tom,
Speaker 10: I would agree with that. They're becoming an impulse buyer.
Speaker 10: It's like, oh, yeah, now I can have more than
Speaker 10: one and put it on this gun and that gun.
Speaker 4: When you say lower price, give you an idea, I mean,
Speaker 4: because we used to think an eight hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 4: for suppressors. How low are they getting Now?
Speaker 10: There are suppressors in the five hundred dollars range, and
Speaker 10: there I know of a couple of companies working to
Speaker 10: move that needle down to three hundred dollars. And the
Speaker 10: idea of the three hundred dollars suppressor, they make no
Speaker 10: bones about it in terms of yeah, it's three d printed,
Speaker 10: and the idea is this is the person's entry into it,
Speaker 10: so they aren't because we want to get more people
Speaker 10: buying suppressors so they feel comfortable with what they are
Speaker 10: and how they operate. And so if you take one
Speaker 10: thousand dollars off the table and now it's three to
Speaker 10: four hundred dollars instead, it's a much easier I'm going
Speaker 10: to try that first one, or I'm going to go
Speaker 10: buy two of them and put them on multiple firearms.
Speaker 4: And we know going in, this is not a ten
Speaker 4: thousand round suppressor. That's not for that, you know, when
Speaker 4: you need that or spend the money. This is for
Speaker 4: the guy who's going to go out and shoot some
Speaker 4: out of it, maybe as bolt ax, maybe as they are.
Speaker 4: But you know, it's like you say, you stick your
Speaker 4: toe in the water, all right, So your overall impression
Speaker 4: of the goals meeting?
Speaker 5: Is it worthwhile?
Speaker 4: Do you think for the consumer, for the person who's
Speaker 4: listening to this to make the trip.
Speaker 10: I do think it is. It's good because it's that
Speaker 10: time of year where there's not necessarily a whole lot
Speaker 10: of new stuff, but anytime you can get here and
Speaker 10: understand two things. One obviously you can get your hands
Speaker 10: on a lot of good product and see some things.
Speaker 10: And there's a lot of smaller companies here, some major manufacturers,
Speaker 10: but a good mix of smaller people to see some
Speaker 10: really cool stuff. I encourage listeners to go to our
Speaker 10: Facebook page because Ryan and I were capturing video and
Speaker 10: from a couple of different places and some really good stuff.
Speaker 10: But there's some really good meetings that go on so
Speaker 10: people can understand, like different legislation that's taking a lot
Speaker 10: of second Yeah, yeah, that way.
Speaker 5: So I got a scowed.
Speaker 4: I know you're on the road and I appreciate you
Speaker 4: pulling over and taking time to give us a little
Speaker 4: update here on the goals thing. Matt Johnson from our
Speaker 4: Gun Talk crew, thank you, sir, and look drive safety.
Speaker 5: I appreciate it. Good stuff.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you can make it to the goals gathering
Speaker 4: next year, I think you said it's going to be
Speaker 4: in Tampa, worthwhile. Interesting Second Amendment information in the seminars as
Speaker 4: well as new product. A lot of cool stuff there.
Speaker 4: This is interesting. I mean, hey, this Gun Owners of
Speaker 4: America put this thing together.
Speaker 5: Good on them, all right, give me a holler at eight.
Speaker 4: Six six Talk Gun that'll get you in here or
Speaker 4: Tom Talk Gun. I have Tom Gresham.
Speaker 5: This is gun Talk. Now.
Speaker 4: I'll tell you what this is important stuff. What's going on?
Speaker 4: What are you carrying and how are you preparing? Hey,
Speaker 4: welcome back to gun Talk. Tom Grasham eight six six
Speaker 4: Talk Gun or Tom Talk Gun.
Speaker 5: You know drill. Easy to get in here. We're looking
Speaker 5: for your calls today.
Speaker 4: And you got a call right now coming in from
Speaker 4: Darren and I believe in uh Ohio.
Speaker 5: Hey, Darren you there, I.
Speaker 11: Am here and that's correct. I'm been Akron are Akron,
Speaker 11: Ohio area. Okay, was calling in. I heard you guys
Speaker 11: were doing the shotgun class with Greg Ellafritz and I
Speaker 11: thought i'd give you a range report.
Speaker 4: Oh great, Yeah, we're doing more of those experience things
Speaker 4: with the Bonelli folks, and we're bringing in Greg to
Speaker 4: do an instructor thing with Chris.
Speaker 5: And you know Greg.
Speaker 4: But I think maybe a lot of people don't know
Speaker 4: his name and don't really know what he does. But
Speaker 4: I gather you took a class with him.
Speaker 11: I did back in June. I took a close quarters
Speaker 11: instructors class with Greg. That was fantastic. And I've trained
Speaker 11: with Greg before. He's a retired Ohio police officer with
Speaker 11: a huge background, just an amazing instructor.
Speaker 5: So okay, so tell me about the class.
Speaker 11: So the close quarters class was that TDI there in
Speaker 11: Ohio was the Tactical Defense Institute in Ohio, and it
Speaker 11: was worked on things like close quarters combat, drawing and
Speaker 11: firing at close distance with a close distance attacker, disarming
Speaker 11: the attacker, and really just working in very close distances
Speaker 11: with people coming after you with the realization that a
Speaker 11: lot of this stuff is going to happen at three
Speaker 11: yards and less. And the interesting thing and why I
Speaker 11: called on this was you had a collar a week
Speaker 11: or two ago. Colin asked about the comped echalon.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, yeah, because there's always this controversy about comped
Speaker 4: or non comped for self defense guns.
Speaker 11: And the reason that I thought about this was that
Speaker 11: Greg actually in the close quarters class, didn't allow us
Speaker 11: to have ported or comped guns because a porter or
Speaker 11: a comp gun is either going to throw a lot
Speaker 11: of fire out or actually, like a ported barrel can
Speaker 11: shave off some of the jackets from the bullet. And actually,
Speaker 11: if you're shooting with the gun, some sort of an
Speaker 11: index close to your body is going to throw some
Speaker 11: of the jacket possibly back into your body or even
Speaker 11: your face, and he said that that's actually very bad
Speaker 11: to do that for obvious reasons. You don't want to
Speaker 11: take a jacket to the face if you're defending yourself.
Speaker 4: And the idea being just for people understand what we're
Speaker 4: talking about. You're not extending the gun out in front
Speaker 4: of you. Actually you've got the pistol back probably he
Speaker 4: actually even pressed against your side so that the muzzle
Speaker 4: is directly underneath your eyes. And if it's shaving lead
Speaker 4: or jacket or something through this port and throwing it
Speaker 4: straight up, you could, in essence, frag yourself.
Speaker 11: And that's exactly what can happen. And Greg calls it
Speaker 11: a thumb pectoral index, where you actually have the gun,
Speaker 11: you know, gripped up against your pectoral muscle with your
Speaker 11: thumb sort of pushing it off of your body a
Speaker 11: little bit. And one of the people in our class,
Speaker 11: their first gun went down and they had to go
Speaker 11: to their backup, which was a ported gun, and sure
Speaker 11: enough he had a little bit of jacket spray him
Speaker 11: in the face. While we were again shooting with the
Speaker 11: gun basically underneath your armpit. Almost I hope he didn't
Speaker 11: get out. He was fine, but it was a wake
Speaker 11: up call of why we were told don't do this. So,
Speaker 11: you know, when you had the collar questioning should I
Speaker 11: get a comper reported gun for concealed carry? I guess
Speaker 11: my answer to that is now, for what little I know.
Speaker 5: Okay, so let's go back to training with Greg Elfretz.
Speaker 4: You have to take other classes obviously, and we're going
Speaker 4: to have Greg down at our place. If you were
Speaker 4: to explain to somebody why you would want to take
Speaker 4: a class with Greg, go from there.
Speaker 11: I don't know that I've ever met a more personable instructor.
Speaker 11: That's just darn fun to work with. Greg's experience as
Speaker 11: a police officer and talking about, you know, situations where
Speaker 11: they've had to pull guns on people in close distances
Speaker 11: and disarming people and his experience from that was just
Speaker 11: second to none. And I've taken a lot of classes
Speaker 11: over the years from a lot of big name instructors
Speaker 11: and it just Greg has a fun way of doing that.
Speaker 11: And again, the Benelli class just sounds really exciting. I
Speaker 11: wish I could make it down your way to do that.
Speaker 4: Well, you know the problem is we can't go to
Speaker 4: all the classes we want to go, can't.
Speaker 11: We that's a problem and my wife puts up with
Speaker 11: me doing too much. Honestly, you sound like you're very
Speaker 11: much like me.
Speaker 4: I freally admit I have become a shooting school junkie.
Speaker 4: I like to go to a number of classes at
Speaker 4: a number of different places because no matter where I go,
Speaker 4: I'm going to learn something.
Speaker 11: And that was the thing with the close quarters class
Speaker 11: from Greg. I've taken other classes from him before, and
Speaker 11: that one just really opened your eyes to some of
Speaker 11: the things that you don't think about when you're in
Speaker 11: close distance with an attacker and you know all the
Speaker 11: different ways not only you know they can hurt you,
Speaker 11: but you can hurt yourself if you do it incorrectly.
Speaker 4: Well, and it also points out that and I would
Speaker 4: love to get your take on this, this close quarters work,
Speaker 4: bringing a gun in really close shooting a target. That's
Speaker 4: we're talking about touching distance where you can reach out
Speaker 4: with your other hand touch.
Speaker 5: It really isn't something you should try to teach yourself.
Speaker 11: No, and you know, and I've been doing this a
Speaker 11: long time, and he pointed out, even you know, the
Speaker 11: where is your support hand? And you know, don't let
Speaker 11: your hand get in front of the barrel. If you're
Speaker 11: trying to push somebody off of you, you need to
Speaker 11: still pay attention to where your hand is, your elbow is,
Speaker 11: because it's really easy to shoot yourself if you're not careful.
Speaker 4: Which is kind of the opposite of the whole goal
Speaker 4: of trying to survive a gunfight. If you shoot yourself,
Speaker 4: it's a fail exactly.
Speaker 11: And so we worked really hard on how to draw
Speaker 11: basically one handed, lift your shirt, your cover garment out
Speaker 11: of the way, and you know, pull the trigger on
Speaker 11: somebody that's intending to cause you significant harm and not
Speaker 11: hurt yourself in the process.
Speaker 4: Man, Well, I'm sorry you can't get down to the
Speaker 4: shotgun class. I'm not going to be able to make
Speaker 4: it easier because I got a conflict. Because it sure
Speaker 4: sounds like a fun time.
Speaker 11: It sounds amazing, and I hope to pick up Greg's
Speaker 11: shotgun class somewhere else at some point in time, but
Speaker 11: it's just not going to come with a cool shotgun unfortunately.
Speaker 5: Hey Darren, great range report. I appreciate you calling in.
Speaker 5: Thanks Tom, have a great day. All right, let's stay
Speaker 5: on the phones. Grab Howard out of o'calla, Florida, Howard.
Speaker 4: You're still there, sir, Yes, I am perfect.
Speaker 5: You got a range report for us?
Speaker 6: Yes, I do.
Speaker 12: I went to the Tampa gun show and purchased. I
Speaker 12: was looking for the cold Python stainless four and a
Speaker 12: quarter and found it. And as I was looking around,
Speaker 12: saying if anyone else had one, I found HK MR.
Speaker 6: Five five six A four.
Speaker 12: I've got the A one and I collected HK. So
Speaker 12: I said, what would Tom do?
Speaker 6: As well?
Speaker 5: Might as well?
Speaker 4: Right, I don't care if it cost your money. Hey,
Speaker 4: it's not my money, right, that's right.
Speaker 12: Well, it's not a cheap rifle. But so I got
Speaker 12: both of them for a pretty good price. I made
Speaker 12: a package deal with with the seller or with the
Speaker 12: company the store, and yesterday I got a chance to
Speaker 12: take them down and shoot them at the local range here.
Speaker 12: I put a a night Force one to eight LPVO.
Speaker 12: So I've got some good money in that rifle right now.
Speaker 12: First group, I zirled at thirty six yards because I've
Speaker 12: been reading around and seeing what a good zero is
Speaker 12: now and it seems like thirty six is one of
Speaker 12: the ways to go. And you could cover the first
Speaker 12: group with a small dime. It's probably three quarters of
Speaker 12: an inch out to out, and then after that I
Speaker 12: made my adjustment, got it to where I needed to
Speaker 12: be and went out to a hundred and I'm.
Speaker 6: Probably at.
Speaker 12: Maybe three quarters of an inch, but that's probably me
Speaker 12: rather than the rifle at one hundred and with the
Speaker 12: Cult Python, that's just that I'm not a revolver guy.
Speaker 4: Well, where you're shooting the revolver single action or double action,
Speaker 4: I tried.
Speaker 12: Both, and I tried thirty eight special and three fifty
Speaker 12: seven and I've got the GP one hundred and six
Speaker 12: inch in three fifty seven. Man, that two inches of
Speaker 12: mel doesn't make a difference.
Speaker 5: It definitely does.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but the Python has such a smooth trigger pool
Speaker 4: it is Jerry there, just delightful.
Speaker 6: And it does.
Speaker 12: But one of the main reasons I called is I
Speaker 12: wanted to know see if you or someone else who's
Speaker 12: listening can help me out. I took a brand to
Speaker 12: the last carving course down at range Ready and it
Speaker 12: was zeroed straight on at twenty five, but at one
Speaker 12: hundred it was shooting way high. And I didn't think
Speaker 12: too much of it at the time because it was
Speaker 12: the class and you know, whatnot. And I took it
Speaker 12: down yesterday to confirm that, and I am right on
Speaker 12: with about a quarter inch group at twenty five, and
Speaker 12: then at fifty I'm about two and three quarter inches
Speaker 12: high with about a two inch group, and that's probably me.
Speaker 12: But then at one hundred it jumps up to like
Speaker 12: eight and a half inches at one hundred and I
Speaker 12: cannot figure out what's going on. So this should not
Speaker 12: move that much.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, it certainly can. I guess. The question is, now,
Speaker 5: do you have an optic on it? Are you shooting
Speaker 5: iron sight?
Speaker 12: I do?
Speaker 6: I have a Repo one four, Okay.
Speaker 4: So you probably have a fairly high scope mount. I'm
Speaker 4: just going to make a guess here, because if the
Speaker 4: scope is mounted high, then you've got a more of
Speaker 4: an angle between the line of sight and the line
Speaker 4: of fire.
Speaker 12: So I use a cant I've got an arrow precision
Speaker 12: cantil Eva site.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and hights over barrow is probably.
Speaker 12: Three and a half four inches and let's straight on.
Speaker 4: It angle No, No, but that's very high. That's what
Speaker 4: I'm saying is your scope is mounted much higher than
Speaker 4: your barrel, and the only way that they can shoot
Speaker 4: to the same place at twenty five yards is for
Speaker 4: and you don't see it, but the barrel is angled
Speaker 4: up a little bit to be able to intersect the
Speaker 4: line of sight at twenty five yards. Well, that means
Speaker 4: that bullet is actually rising at twenty five yards and
Speaker 4: it's keep going up at one hundred. That's a very
Speaker 4: normal situation. If the scope was mounted lower to the bore,
Speaker 4: you would have less of a difference at one hundred yards.
Speaker 4: It's simply an angular thing. So the question then becomes,
Speaker 4: given your setup, you got to figure.
Speaker 5: Out where do I want to be.
Speaker 4: I'm going to suggest siding in to be an inch
Speaker 4: low at twenty five, maybe an inch and a half
Speaker 4: low at twenty five, and that's going to put you
Speaker 4: about two and a half to three inches high at
Speaker 4: one hundred and that's very workable.
Speaker 12: Okay, But right now I'm shooting high about eight inches,
Speaker 12: So that would be what you would consider.
Speaker 4: Normal, yes, for for your setup. Yes, that is a
Speaker 4: very normal that's purely mechanical. It's nothing wrong with the setup.
Speaker 4: When that scope is mounted three and a half inches
Speaker 4: above the board, that's simply what you're going to get.
Speaker 5: That's just physics. There's nothing more than that.
Speaker 12: Okay, well I will make those adjustments and if if
Speaker 12: I'll call you.
Speaker 4: Back and let you know, let me know how it
Speaker 4: works out. Good, and congratulations on the new acquisitions. Well done,
Speaker 4: might as well.
Speaker 12: Right, yeah, I'm going anyway, so you.
Speaker 5: Know, there you go. I understand it. It's all good.
Speaker 5: There you go. I like it, very good.
Speaker 4: Call.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: When you mount a scope, I mean think about this.
Speaker 4: If the scope were on the same exact same line
Speaker 4: as the barrel, then there would be no you know,
Speaker 4: shooting high, shooting low. But as you raised this scope
Speaker 4: above the barrel, you got the line of sight. And
Speaker 4: the only way for that bullet to intersect the line
Speaker 4: of sight from starting way below the barrel is for
Speaker 4: the barrel to be tilted up. You don't see it,
Speaker 4: but it's a little bit, but that bullet is actually
Speaker 4: rising and intersects the line of sight at twenty five yards,
Speaker 4: but it keeps rising as it goes past that, and
Speaker 4: when it gets to one hundred yards, it's six or
Speaker 4: eight inches high. Now, if the scope was mounted one
Speaker 4: and a half inches off the barrel, the difference one
Speaker 4: hundred yards would be much less. This is a normal thing,
Speaker 4: and that's one of the issues with mounting a scope
Speaker 4: that much higher than the barrel is you're going to
Speaker 4: get that kind of offset. And like I said, the
Speaker 4: way to work around that is simply have a lower
Speaker 4: impact setting so that your point of impact is lower
Speaker 4: twenty five yards. That's assuming you want to be on
Speaker 4: it a one hundred yards. One of the things we
Speaker 4: always have to figure out is where do I want
Speaker 4: this thing to be hitting out? Do I want it
Speaker 4: on at twenty five do I want it on at
Speaker 4: one hundred yards? Where's it going to be? It's why
Speaker 4: on our hunting rifles we often say, well, site three
Speaker 4: inches high at one hundred and then you'll be on
Speaker 4: out to two hundred and fifty to three hundred yards.
Speaker 4: And I have to about drop or anything else. It's
Speaker 4: just the ballistics. It's the trajectory of the whole thing. Okay,
Speaker 4: you know I'm going to come back. I want to
Speaker 4: talk about something. I went to arrange actually a couple
Speaker 4: times this week. Once I took I took four four
Speaker 4: rifles out, took the getting Ready hinting season, took the
Speaker 4: two fifty seven Roberts actally improved. Let's see the thirty
Speaker 4: odd six three thirty eight odd six actly improved. And
Speaker 4: then I took this brand new and I've talked about
Speaker 4: that I've got. I had never shot it before. It
Speaker 4: was a three seventy five H and H and had
Speaker 4: a bunch of fun with all of them and got them.
Speaker 5: All on target.
Speaker 4: The I had forgotten to take my little pad, my
Speaker 4: past pad for my shoulder because that three thirty eight
Speaker 4: odd six is a super lightweight rifle. It's a Melvin
Speaker 4: Forbes rifle and it kicks like a devil. And first
Speaker 4: time I shot it went out, Okay, you gotta do
Speaker 4: something because I don't have my pad on. I took
Speaker 4: one of the soft rifle cases and draped it over
Speaker 4: my shoulder and used the padding, and the soft rifle
Speaker 4: cases by padding worked like a charm. Solved that problem.
Speaker 4: That worked just great. And you know, I don't worry
Speaker 4: about recoil when I'm hunting. I never feel it, but
Speaker 4: if you're going to be out of the range pounding
Speaker 4: away for a while, it does add up. And there's
Speaker 4: no need to actually create a flinch. We want to
Speaker 4: avoid that if at all possible. So I had a
Speaker 4: bunch of fun with that. Then I shot the Dan
Speaker 4: weston DWX nine millimeters pistol and the brand new to
Speaker 4: me because Colt said, look, you got to try this.
Speaker 4: This pistol and it is the is from Colt from
Speaker 4: their custom shop. It's called the Custom Carried Limited and
Speaker 4: it's a commander sized nineteen eleven and nine millimeters. They
Speaker 4: don't make a lot of them, and I gather they
Speaker 4: kind of are a little bit hard to come by.
Speaker 4: It is a thing of beauty. I was when I
Speaker 4: had Mark Raddle on the show. Here from Colt, oh,
Speaker 4: I guess a month or so ago. He said, Man,
Speaker 4: he says, you really ought to try this thing. So okay,
Speaker 4: send me one. We'll try it. I'm afraid this is
Speaker 4: going to be one of those where I end up
Speaker 4: telling them, you know, guys, you're not getting it back.
Speaker 4: Just send me the invoice and see what we could
Speaker 4: work out here. That's just how it's going to work.
Speaker 4: This thing shoots like a target gun. It's amazing.
Speaker 6: Now.
Speaker 4: They put a lot of aftermarket parks. They got some
Speaker 4: chin parts, some EGW parts in it. They've done all
Speaker 4: the things you need to do to make it a
Speaker 4: terrific carry gun. So I used it in the Steel Challenge.
Speaker 4: I shot yeah, it's a carry gun, but man, it's
Speaker 4: incredibly accurate.
Speaker 5: Shoots really well. Even though it's a Series eighty trigger.
Speaker 5: The trigger is very good, all tuned up, ready to go.
Speaker 4: I did have a few break in issues because you know,
Speaker 4: you don't generally take a gun like this to a match.
Speaker 4: You only have twenty rounds for it, and I did,
Speaker 4: and I have a two or three stove pipes, a
Speaker 4: couple of other you know, battery didn't go back into
Speaker 4: battery after the first fifty or one hundred rounds. It
Speaker 4: ran like a top which would be normal. Shot it
Speaker 4: well for me, which is okay. You know, I'm not
Speaker 4: a top competitive shooter. I'm not even a great good
Speaker 4: competitors here that I'm thinking of it, I'm not even
Speaker 4: a competitive shooter.
Speaker 5: What have you been shooting? Eighty six six talk gun?
Speaker 4: You know this shooting in Idaho yesterday the twin falls.
Speaker 4: So the bad guy is shooting people with an AR
Speaker 4: shooting through their windshields, and you got a good guy
Speaker 4: with a pistol. Turns out it looks like an FN
Speaker 4: five point seven with a suppressor. He's all trained up,
Speaker 4: he does this stuff. He's serious about this. He's got
Speaker 4: you know ars and pistols and things, and he carries
Speaker 4: the believe or not carries the FN five point seven
Speaker 4: pistol with a suppressor and a shoulder holster. Now it
Speaker 4: looks like in the video he may have gone to
Speaker 4: his trunk to pull this thing out, which brings us
Speaker 4: to the question of a truck gun or vehicle gun.
Speaker 4: Wouldn't you rather in that situation? I don't know how
Speaker 4: far he was, having to shoot thirty yards, fifty yards,
Speaker 4: whatever it was. Would you rather have a rifle or
Speaker 4: even a pistol caliber carbing. I mean, I'm thinking about
Speaker 4: a pistol caliber carbing and ten milimeter much easier to
Speaker 4: hit something, have more power out there. But did again
Speaker 4: heal anything is good? Then you say, okay, some things
Speaker 4: are better.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I would rather have a rifle for that. And it
Speaker 4: wouldn't have to be an ar. It could be a
Speaker 4: lever action. You could be a thirty thirty. He could
Speaker 4: be a forty four magnum in a rifle with iron sights.
Speaker 4: I would feel much more comfortable shooting in something at
Speaker 4: the distance. Having said that, I was mentioning this cult
Speaker 4: custom carry limited pistol. It's a commander size that I
Speaker 4: was shooting yesterday at the Steel Challenge. This thing shoots
Speaker 4: really accurately, and of course there are a lot of
Speaker 4: pistols that shoot accurately. Does not have an optic on
Speaker 4: it at all. I'm shooting iron sights. There were a
Speaker 4: couple of stages situations where we had light coming in
Speaker 4: from behind the target shining toward us, and it made
Speaker 4: it for me difficult to see the front sight. It's
Speaker 4: a regular tritium site with a white outline around it.
Speaker 4: If it had had a fiber optic side, it would
Speaker 4: have been easier to see, I think, or maybe even
Speaker 4: with a gold dot, which I like a lot. I
Speaker 4: don't know. Optic would have taken care of that. I
Speaker 4: get that. But with all that having been said, I
Speaker 4: had no trouble at all hitting a steel target. Probably
Speaker 4: you'd call it a man's size steel target at thirty
Speaker 4: five yards, drawing as quickly as I can and getting
Speaker 4: on target and pressing the trigger.
Speaker 5: And therein lies the key.
Speaker 4: Taking an extra moment, whatever that moment is, and working
Speaker 4: on the trigger. Don't you don't shoot fast, draw fast,
Speaker 4: shoot good, Take that extra moment to take a really
Speaker 4: good trigger press and if you work at it if
Speaker 4: you say I'm going to learn to do this, maybe
Speaker 4: go get some training. Huh, there's a thought. There's no
Speaker 4: reason most of us can't be hitting a steel target
Speaker 4: that size of thirty five yards, which means we can
Speaker 4: in fact engage a bad guy at distance. I mean,
Speaker 4: think about Eli Dicken. He's in the mall. Guy comes
Speaker 4: out with an ar to kill people, and Eli pulls
Speaker 4: his block out with iron sights, just a rigular, plastic,
Speaker 4: fantastic gun. He shoots this guy forty two yards, hits
Speaker 4: him more than once, closes the distance, intu a few
Speaker 4: more times, puts him down, puts the stop to the
Speaker 4: whole thing. You'll hear people still today will tell you
Speaker 4: what you know. The guy's got a rifle, you got
Speaker 4: a pistol. You don't have a chance. That is so untrue,
Speaker 4: demonstrably untrue, proven yesterday, proven by Eli Dicken, proven by
Speaker 4: any number of people. Jack Wilson in the church. I mean,
Speaker 4: just go on and on, people, good people with pistols
Speaker 4: who know how to shoot, stopping a bad guy no
Speaker 4: matter what the bad guy has. But you know you
Speaker 4: cannot acquire skills in the middle of a gun fight.
Speaker 4: You need to work on those ahead of time. You
Speaker 4: need to have acquired those skills. You need to have
Speaker 4: made the decisions. You made the commitment I am going
Speaker 4: to carry every single day when I step out of
Speaker 4: the house, I'm going to be carrying a gun. And
Speaker 4: it's not gonna be a mouse gun. It's gonna be
Speaker 4: a gun I can actually hit something with at some distance.
Speaker 4: There's a place for the mouse gun, but it is limited.
Speaker 4: Maybe the place for it is that a backup to
Speaker 4: the other gun. I don't know.
Speaker 5: What do you think, Give me a call.