I know. I have a quick question. This is so random. Are you guys together? Okay, I was looking over there, and you guys just look like a good couple. Like you've been together a long time, almost five years. That's awesome. How do you know when you like someone? Like? How did you know that you liked her? And how did you know that you liked him? Well, that's a little different for us. That's wear in our fifties. Recognize the honest answers and then how to weed out the. But what's most important is are you going. Through something. Just a little bit? Sorry, I'm sorry, I got you. There, you go release it. You're gonna una. Reason reason. I'm content in every place of my life. I have a fulfilling job and like. I have friendships that are so life giving. My family's amazing, and you know, my supporting system is more than I could ask for. But it's just that one thing that I'm just like, how do I know when. When I genuinely like someone? And I don't know, I just saw so much love around it. You got you as long as you are loving your life, and stop them because the person that they have to compliment your life, I mean, you guys both have to fit into something that's already wonderful and to be deserving them. And you too, and you both of you because it's gonna be work. It's not easy. I made a cognitive decision to love. Also, all you can be accountable is for your involvement and any misunderstanding. That's all you got control, okay, and you just do that the best of your ability. You've got a whole bunch of life to. Being in schools. I'm gonna tell you what's so wonderfulul the fact that. You took the chance to say, I'm having a moment, let me go talk to this whatever the universe has for you, keep. That smile on you. Just make sure you're ready to ask questions that are important to you. And if it don't feel right, you trusted. If you don't feel right, don't trust it. But just be honest say hey, hey, I appreciate this, but this just is going in a direction that I'm gonna comfortable. But you're an okay person that some men can't take rejection to be careful. Yeah, but you know what, you just keep being the best person you can be. That's all you got. Control your emotion is genuine of wanting to have it. But don't feel like your time is clicking because it may not be. You continue to be happy as long as you are having them all while you're enjoying your life, Gonna look back, even travel for. You get to do it either. I can country, hurry up by yourself, find some girls that want to go, or go by your damnself. I have been on two cruises before I met her by myself, like. Pops, Yeah, we got an extended little girl over here, all right? And what's your name, sweetie guy? Jazz man versus book, It's called the relationship this man. I'll just stick the landing with the ex siting a toxic relationship. That may just help you navigate on the type of questions you made w that ask. When it's that time, like the relationship this man's name of the I connected this for a reason, so I'm not mad at that. Like I said, you mean my heart good like man, a stranger decided to come, Pops, I'm cool with that. That's good ship, thank you. I don't know what possessed me to ask that random couple for some relationship advice, but I am so happy that I listened. I am so, so incredibly happy that I listened. This is your side to start asking strangers questions. Ladies and gentlemen. The voice of reason has returned to the scene of the conversation. Man, it's been a tough week in the name of sweet Baby raised Barbecue Sauce. But let me say this, I'm blown away. I am absolutely blown away. For many of you. You if you were listening to my show on Thursday night was Thursday, the sixth Thursday, the sixth of August, my second oldest other died in the hospital at Huntington Hospital in Pasadena, California. People who follow me noticed that clip that you just heard right from a young content creator. Her name is Jasmine. What's crazy is the clip was organic. She already had filmed it and she was holding onto it for a second, but she decided to drop it on the same day that my brother passed. My brother passed on a Thursday, seventeen years after my mother passed in two thousand and nine, on a Thursday. My brother had been struggling with alcoholism, and he was in a deeply toxic relationship and ashamed didn't want family to come see him in his current state, but we came anyway. He balked at it, he cussed everybody out, and then we loved on him, and then he softened and then he passed away. He was in a convalescent home for four days and then he got ill, and then they sent him back to the hospital. I text my sister, I said, Hey, what room is he in? Send me his room number, and I'm gonna get over there right now. She sends me the room number. I said, oh, my god. I looked at the room number, and I said, oh, he's not coming out of there, just by looking at the room number, because the room number was my mother's birthday, four fourteen, in the same hospital she died in seventeen years previously. On a Thursday, when I tell you the universe is finely tuned, divinely too. The same day, Jasmine drops a video that goes viral. That video clip I played at the beginning of the show has damn near a million views. She met a random couple African American brother and sister, and they nurtured and loved on her and mentored her in her moment of need, and randomly the brother and the couple says, hey, you should get this book called The Relationship Dismount How to stick the landing when Exiting a toxic relationship. That's my book, and because of her video, the book has gone viral. It's in the top ten on Amazon right now. Sometimes we don't want to have real conversations about life. We don't want to have real conversations about relationships. I remember when I first put the book out, people say, oh, this is a breakup book. I don't need a breakup book. We're doing fine, We're okay. They were afraid to read the information. And I know on this show, I hit you guys hard, and I hit you often. I hit you every day with tough topics, with difficult topics about relationships. But that young lady's video revived a book that is eleven years old. It came out in twenty fifteen, and I have her on the show Tonight, Ladies and Gentlemen, without further ado, My goodness, Jasmine, come on into the Voice of Reason, talk to me, young lady. Hello, Hello, it's so nice. Wow. You know, I couldn't let this slide. I was like what people were tagging me and saying, Yo, they're talking about your book. They're talking about your book, and I said, no, get and I would listen to the video for a second, and I'm busy, ripping and running. I didn't finish it. And then finally I said, let me just sit down and listen to the whole thing. And when I sat down, I said, wow. And this happened on the same day my brother passes, so you know, I was busy with him. And then when you know, I had a moment to process, I listened to the video and I said, what is God up to? What is God is busy? God is working? So what I wanted to do for you was a continuation of what the couple was doing. And I have I have a whole topic laid out, but before I lay it, you know, lay it down, I really just want to answer some of your questions, if you have any. Sure. Well, first off, I just want to say I am so sorry for your loss. Thank you. I'm just learning about that today. So I'm in my room in tears because I just can't believe that the timing was that divine, even not just in the encounter in the video, but also posting it. I mean, as you mentioned, I had it in my draft sitting there and I was so embarrassed to post my vulnerability, and I was worried that people were going to think that was desperate or maybe just take things out of context. But the more I listened to it, the more I realized the message was so powerful that it almost felt greedy to keep it to myself. And I also didn't check what you that it was published until I started noticing people were in such disbelief in that interaction, the raw human interaction, that they thought it was like a skid or something, right, right, Yeah, And so I'm just so happy that it's reached the people that it needed to because a lot of those comments and private messages I've received have been people who also identify in that same issue of feeling stuck in their dating life. Especially with the dating apps and social media. It's completely changed the game. But a lot of the values and the lessons in the book are timeless and the still ring true today. So I really want to thank you for publishing this work. Oh man, I'm excited to have you on and I have a topic here and I would just love for you, you know, to roll with me, and if you have questions, please ask those questions, Okay, awesome. Yeah, So you think about your questions and then I'm gonna set up our topic and then I'm gonna bring you back in. Is that cool? That sounds perfect? Perfect. Jasmine is on board with me tonight. She's revived the relationship dismount how to stick the landing when exiting a toxic relationship. And it's really interesting how social media works, right. A clip can just go viral and it'll wake up a title that is what they call a legacy title, right, an older title that you know had its run, and then people kind of discover it as they move along, but you never see a real tsunami of interest around it. And when I tell you what my last check, we've done in four days, fifty six copies and it is just going crazy. People have been getting the book and I don't know the couple. She didn't know the couple, and they just randomly mentioned the book. So let's get into tonight's topic. It's kind of loosely based on what Jasmine is experiencing and what probably many other people are experiencing. Tonight's topic when the reality of love outruns what you think you know about it, A deeper investigation into whether Intimate confusion is where conditioning loses its authority. Stuckness begins resisting the unknown, and relationship forces us beyond the psychological past that has been choosing for us. Human beings rarely fear confusion. They fear what confusion threatens to take away. Every intimate relationship begins with the quiet confidence that we understand love well enough to recognize it when it arrives. Then something unexpected happens. The relationship refuses to obey our expectations. Communication begins to break down, Our attraction levels and intensity begin to change, Conflict starts to emerge, and then the certainty that we were attached to in the beginning begins to dissolve. Almost instinctively. We conclude that confusion signals dysfunction, incompatibility, betrayal, or the beginning of the end. On tonight's topic, we're going to investigate a far more dangerous conclusion. What if intimate confusion is not always evidence that reality has become unclear? What if it marks the precise moment your existing understanding of love can no longer explain the reality standing right in front of you. What if confusion is the end of what you thought you knew about love, happiness and intimacy. When I come forward, the voice of reason will continue cooking up this meal. This a dialogue you head in oh Hi, California. We had there. A dialogue between doctor Bull and myself and to Sha and one David before yesterday. So maybe we continue with the dialogue. And if should anybody join this or not at all? We're asking if anybody feels like joining this, unless it is very very serious, would they join or they distantly if they don't want to, It's all right. So it's a conversation between doctor bourman myself. Let's get on with it. See we were saying the other day, man a human being who has walked his way through all the. Problems of life, both physical and psychological, and it's really grasped with full significance of freedom from psychological memories and conflicts, and traveled it comes to a point where the mind finds itself free but not but hasn't gathered that supreme energy to go beyond itself. That's what we were discussing the other day. Can we still going on from there? Right? Can the mind really mind brain, the whole psychological structure, the ever free from all. Conflict from all shadow of any disturbance, disturbance, self disturbance, self disturbance, and all that. Can it ever be free? Or the idea to a complete freedom is an illusion? Yes, well that's one one possibility is that what we're. Then some people might say we can have partial. Freedom, partial freedom or human condition is so. Determined by the past, by by its own auditioning, it can never free itself from it, like they like some of those intellectual philosophers have stated this. Yes, most some people, I feel that's the case. And really the the deep non citarian religious people, if there are there must be some who are totally free from all organized religions and beliefs and rituals, dougments, they have. Said it can be done. Very few have. Said this, well, of course those who have said it's done through reincarnation. In addition, yes, it would take a very long time. Yes, they said, You've take a very long time. You must go through various lives and suffer and go through all kinds of miseries, and ultimately. You'll come to that. But we are not. In the US, the riches society in history. Fully half of the citizens of a chronic disorders such as high blood pressure or diabetans. Anxiety amongst young people is growing rapidly, asthma and autoimmune diseases are on the rise, as our addictions, depression is rising, youth suicide is rising. All is not well. I started heroin at twenty six. That's what really destroyed me. Just taste the pain away. It's easy to want to escape reality completely instead of coping with that. And so the question is can we be human beings in the midst of civilization M because what we call civilization demands the denial of human needs. MM. Please, ladies and gentlemen. That was gobor Mate cooking with the rarest grease. You're listening to the Voice of Reason live on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. We got a real discussion here when the reality of love outruns what you think you know about it. You see goobor Matie laying out the landscape of life on planet Earth and why depression is on the rise. Many of us have a sense of stuckness in our relationships, and I tend to believe we have this sense of stuckness because we use relationship as a means to escape the reality in which we live. Why can't I just be happy? Why can't I just find somebody and we just chill and it just be cool. That's because people don't understand the purpose of relationships. And I have a young lady on the line right now, and I'm a bringer right on in. Her name is Jasmine. Jasmine. Where are you from? Originally, I'm from the Pacific Northwest, a. DC. I'm at Washington, Oregon. Yeah, Washington, Come on? Those are our rivals down here? Oh yeah, college football? I got I went there, the Huskies. I love it. I love it. I'm so happy that you're here to join me. I really want to walk with you and talk with you about your story, about your relationship struggles or issues or questions. Please share with me. Do you have any questions? Yeah, I've got a couple questions. I think coming from that interaction, I've learned that I've been overthinking dating because I'm trying too hard to figure out if I'm compatible with someone, and I wasn't really asking the right questions. And I realized that I was losing my ability to experience getting to know someone. And I was also approaching dating in a very self centered way, where it's what can this person do for me instead of how can we compliment each other? And how could I also build up the other person that's in front of me? And I've also been pretty notorious for date eating my ideas. And then one of the chapters in the book specifically says not to date your ideas. And so I think I've been learning how to read the signs when someone is emotionally unavailable and walk away before I get to invest it, and then I fantasize a reality where they aren't like that. And yeah, so I think one of my first questions is how do you are one can't do right? Say? What question should I ask myself after a date to determine whether I like the person or I just liked how I felt around them? Well, that's an interesting question. So my question back to you is before we answer that, because I'm gonna ask you to ask that question again, but I want you to ask it again from this perspective, What exactly are you looking to get from the relationship from this special person? This idea you said you used to date. Yeah, I think the idea that I'm looking for is or that I find myself trying to fit people in. Is someone who's family oriented that I could raise a family with that my family would approve of, and they're pretty accepting. So I think I just put way too much pressure on that part too. And then also someone who treasures me and makes me feel soft and feminine, because it's really hard for me to step into that just because I've been I've been led by a lot of strong women and I'm inspired by them, and a lot of them are pretty independent and don't really rely on other people to wait make things happen for themselves. So wait, let me show you something. You are outsourcing your power because you want someone to make you soft. That's an inside job. Now you've already mentioned the family pattern. The women are strong, but you want the man to come into your life and trigger your softness when you can do that yourself. I'm not saying it's a bad thing to want that. I'm not saying you should change that expectation, but you have to be what you seek in order to magnetize it into your life. DC. Oftentimes we want softness when in fact, you just gave me a perfect example. What do we do as children? According to developmental psychology, we model the environment we were raised in so you modeled the strength of the women in your household when you were a child, Right, But yet you want to be soft? So is it the man's responsibility to trigger it? Or is it your responsibility to say, you know what, as an adult woman who wants to be soft with a man, I don't need this part of my modeling that I inherited as a child. Dcy. Does that make sense? Yes, stay with me, don't go nowhere. Me and jazzmin we gonna keep cooking. The voice of reason is on complete fire tonight. I got a special one for you. Let's go. So why does good sex so often fade, even for couples who continue to love each other as much as ever? And why does good intimacy not guarantee good sex contrary to popular belief? Or the next question would be can we want what we already have? That's the million dollar question, right? And why is the forbidden so erotic? What is it about transgression that makes desires so potent? And why does sex make babies and babies spelerotic disaster in couples? It's kind of the fatal erotic blow, isn't it? And when you love, how does it seem. That's ethel right. I want to get back to Jasmine because me and Jasmine are cooking right now. Jasmine, are you there with me? Oh yeah, I'm still here. All right. So you were asking, right, and I was answering right. I was telling you about the softness of a woman. Right, there's a power in women that men can never possess. You have it by default. You have it. So you have to go inside and realize, Oh, being a strong woman is good in certain areas, right, But if I want to attract a man who likes a soft woman, I have to cultivate that softness within myself. Do you know how to do that? Yeah? I believe so. Well, talk to me. What has been the problem? I think it's more having my guardup around people and not necessarily feeling like it's safe to be vulnerable around someone understood. Yes, yeah, Is it safe to be vulnerable with yourself? Yeah? Yes? Okay, that's the start, right, Self vulnerability, self acceptance, self approval. Do you struggle with some of that? I think I used to a lot more in the past, like ten years, but I've been going to therapy and doing the work to trust my instincts a little. More and yeah, and just have positive self talk instead of always trying to put myself down or raise myself to these standards that don't really make sense for being a human. Beautiful, But do you see how that kind of talk has its own frequency and vibration. And if you look at yourself as a type of lighthouse, right, what is the purpose of a lighthouse? What does it do? What is its function? It draws people in from the storm from darkness. Yeah, they see the light from the lighthouse, they say, oh, the shore is over there. Wayward ships sometimes we call in wayward situationships right from whatever frequency is emitting from us. I'm going to tell you this, A person you're looking for can never be the answer to your problems. They can only be a questiones to an answer that you carry within yourself. So let's play a little game. How many inside jobs are there? We've heard that happiness is an inside job, But how many other inside jobs are there? Can you enlighten me? I wouldn't be able to put a number on it. WHOA No, just name a few. If happiness is an inside job, what else would there be? Fulfillment? Yes, self fulfilling yes, yes, self esteem yeah, self work, but dignity. Yeah, So oftentimes we'll go into a relationship and say, how are you going to show up for me? Right? You gave me that example in your opening statement. Right, we're supposed to go into relationships and observe how we're going to respond because guess what relationships offer for us, every individual that's in a relationship. Guess what it offers? Growth a mirror. And you're right, that's the right answer. Growth. But you can't grow unless you see yourself in real time. And relationships are mirrors. They show us through our partner, what we need to work on, what we need to deal with. The reason why I wrote the relationship dismount was to show people. You hear people talking about it all the time. Are there're patterns, negative patterns, patterns, patterns, patterns? Right? You hear people talk about patterns in relationships. Well, a gymnast uses a routine which is a type of pattern. Right, They use this routine and if they don't stick the landing for the routine, the routine is ruined. Right. That routine is a pattern. I say, oh, this is a beautiful metaphor for relationships. If we don't heal what broke us early or what we use to survive our our home environment, and listens to say that every home is toxic or broken or negative. But everybody has work that they need to deal with, even the best homes. Right, everybody's family has some kind of issue. Right. So all I'm saying is, if you don't address those issues and you go into the relationships, if relationship is a mirror the issues that you carry from home, you carry into your intimate life. Does that make sense? Right? So what should we do when we're going into relationships? We should be looking at ourselves? How am I going to react? Do I want to react or do I want to respond? Do I know the difference from reaction and response? Is reaction negative? Is responding positive? Does that make sense? Yeah? Yes? So I'm asking you. Sounds like you had a pretty good upbringing. Yeah, oh yeah, I did. So talk to me. What example are you trying to recreate from that life in your new intimate life? I would say my parents they faced a lot of hardships being immigrants, teen parents, and they faced a lot of judgment and criticism because they had me out of wedlock, and they were always carrying that type of shame for a while, but they tried their best to give to others and give, give, give, Sometimes they would never receive a thank you. But their home has always been an open place that people can come and rest and just find some type of sanctuary in case they did run away or they got kicked out, or they have money problems. And they've had such a beautiful marriage and they're so affectionate, and they are always like each other's first person to talk about an issue or talk about their day. And they definitely do push it to the mags because they work together and they share their hobbies and friends. But I really do adore the way that they put each other first, and they put their marriage first. So even when we have or they have like struggles with parenting with me and my sister, or they always make sure that they're good first and they're on the same page before introducing parenting or resolving another conflict outside of the family. I love that. I love that you had a good upbringing, right, But you do know you have your own journey and your own path, and sometimes sometimes the hardest thing to do is try to recreate what you were born into. Sometimes you have to create something new and in order to do that. One of the worst breakups to ever happen is the one with family. And when I say with family, I don't mean leave your family. I mean break up with the way and your image and your idea of how you think it should be. Because sometimes love will come out of nowhere, and because you're looking at it through this pattern, through this lens of what you think it should supposed to be, you might miss it. You might not recognize it staring you right in your face. Does that make sense? Yeah, stay right there, don't go nowhere. Jasmine, you are on fire right now, we are cooking. You are giving me life tonight. I love it. Jasmine is on the line when we come forward. I love a great mystery, and I'm fascinated by the greatest unsolved mystery in science, perhaps because it's personal. It's about who we are, and I can't help but be curious. The mystery is this, what is the relationship between your brain and your conscious experiences, such as your experience of the taste of chocolate or the feeling of velvet. Now, this mystery is not new. In eighteen sixty eight, Thomas Huxley wrote, how it is that anything so remarkable as a state of consciousness comes about as the result of irritating nervous tissue. Is just as unaccountable as the appearance of the genie when Aladdin rubbed his lamp. Now, Huxley knew that brain activity and conscious experiences are correlated, but he didn't know why. To the science of his day, it was a mystery. In the years since Huxley, science has learned a lot about brain activity, but the relationship between brain activity and conscious experiences is still a mystery. Why why have we made so little progress? Well, some experts think that we can't solve this problem because we lack the necessary concepts and intelligence. We don't expect monkeys to solve problems in quantum mechanics, and as it happens, we can't expect our species to solve this problem either. Well I disagree. I'm more optimistic. I think we've simply made a false assumption. Once we fix it, we just might solve this problem. Today, I'd like to tell you what that assumption is, why it's false, and how to fix it. Let's begin with a question. Do we see reality as it is? I open my eyes and I have an experience that I describe as a red tomato a meter away. As a result, I come to believe that in reality, there's a red tomato a meter away. I then close my eyes and my experience changes to a gray field. But is it still the case that in reality there's a red tomato a meter away? I think so? But could I be wrong? Could I be misinterpreting the nature of my perceptions? We have misinterpreted our perceptions before. We used to think the Earth is flat because it looks that way, but Thagoras discovered that we were wrong. Then we thought that the Earth is the unmoving center of the universe, again because it looks that way. Coprinicus and Galileo discovered again that we were wrong. Galileo then wondered. Ladies and gentlemen, the VR is back in the building, the Voice of Reason. I'm on the phone with Jasmine. Oh, I'm enjoying my time with Jasmine. Jasmine, are you enjoying your time on the vo R? Oh? Yeah, I love it. So that clip? Who was that clip by Andy? That was a good clip. He was talking about perspectivity, the perception. And I have a question for Jasmine. In this journey of relationships and learning how to connect with others and seeing what fits and what doesn't fit. That was Donald Hoffman, by the way, the clip What has come up that has shown you that your perception of your interactions with these various guys that you dated, you know, getting to know nothing serious? What has come up? They said? You know, I saw that wrong. My perception was off. Does that happen? What is the process of that and what do you learn? How do you change when something does come up and you go, I think I got that wrong? Does that happen to you? Talk to me? Oh? Yeah. I think when I meet people sometimes I get really fixated on trying to figure them out on a first date because it's like that redundant. I think when you're on dating apps, you're in this revolving door of options, and so you're constantly thinking like, Okay, is there something better out there? When can I stop this interaction because it's not going to lead anywhere? And I think that it's a little sometimes unrealistic to expect. I want to show their true selves on a first date. But why do you want them to? Let's go into that. I think I want to because I just want to get it right. My friends and family they're so supportive of me, and they're always saying, man, I wonder the person who's going to be your person, like who you're going to introduce to the family, and I'm so excited to meet your partner. And so there's been all this anticipation built up around it that I think I cave with the pressure. And it makes me a little nervous about missing a red flag or disappointing people around me who love me and cherish me, because there has been a couple moments where I didn't pick the best person and that person hurt me, and I was realized now that I was enabling that behavior by also staying when I should have walked away. Yes, but those moments were really isolating whenever I was trying to figure things out or make things work with someone that I wasn't compatible with. And so it's like, I don't want to face that loneliness again or feel like I have to hide that person from the people that I love who know that I'm capable of more and that they might be holding me back or hurting me or have frustrations that you know, it's it's not a good thing. And I totally understand that I am an African American man. You are a Latina, right, Am I right about that? A Latina? Yeah, I'm a Mexican American. Yeah. So we're from We're both from collectivistic societies. So when we meet somebody, we're basically meeting the tribe. We're meeting the family. Everybody got to be happy with everybody got to be on board, right, So I totally understand that. But I want you to understand that, Yes, relationship has a social application, and a cultural application, and a familial application, but it also has a spiritual and psychological application. Remember this. Did you learn from the negative person that you dated? Did you learn something about yourself? Oh? Yeah, I learned a lot. You tell me? Sare I think that I learned that I need to speak up when something bothers me instead of letting resentment grow or shame keep me from talking or voicing my frustrations. Where did the shame come from? I'm not too sure, I think. Well, actually, looking back, it's definitely in the past feelings of unworth and feeling like I'm not deserving of asking someone to respect my boundaries. Now, you said you were in therapy. Did your therapist happen to share your attachment style with you. We have not spoken about it, but I believe I'm anxious ambivalent. I can feel the anxious on you, baby. But listen, listen, listen, listen. You can't control it. Love is not to be controlled by fear, by pressure, by family, peer pressure. To get it right. Every relationship is right, except the ones that are physically violent. Right. Everyone is right because it mirrors where you are. Sometimes we beat ourselves up. Me an example of that early right when you were talking about negative self talk and how you were very critical of yourself. Well, that's a type of self abuse. Right. Well, if that's a vibration, if that's a frequency, you can call that in in the form of a partner. Do you see what I'm saying? Does that? Yeah? You see what I'm saying. So this is why I started with inside job work. Right self esteem. There's a great book by doctor Glenn R. Charraldy Glenn R. Chiraldy, PhD. It's called the Self Esteem Work Book Right, Self Esteem Workbook. It is an amazing book. I in my coaching, I reference it right and I give it to the clients that I talk to and let me just say, coming into a relationship hole is way different then coming into a relationship hoping that they can fill holes. DC, I need you to feel this worthiness whole. I need you to feel this, I deserve whole. I need you to feel this, I'm seen whole or I'm heard whole. Right, you have to come in filling those holes so you can get to know another whole person. Does that make sense? Mm hmmm, right, it makes perfect sense. Yes. See, let me tell you something about relationship. It will expose you. Relationships are designed to trigger you. So what is the trigger? What is it to you when you get triggered? What is that? I definitely think it's the not feeling heard or understood. You know what I think understand? Yeah? You want know what I think it is? Yeah, homework. When you get triggered, oftentimes we want the person to stop doing whatever they're doing to trigger us. We want we put it on them to change instead of looking at the trigger as data as information about myself. Why am I triggered? Where did the trigger come from? When they do that? Why do I react this way? DC? This is the information that we get from the University of You. I e. Relationships, Relationships teach us about us. Now we've turned them into these playgrounds of leisure. Where are we going to eat? Let's take a picture of our plate. Uh, you know, let's post our lunch or our dinner on Instagram. Let's go you know what I mean. We've turned it into this place of leisure. But psychologically speaking, relationships reveal us to ourselves the parts of ourselves that we're uncomfortable with. So if your therapist said anxious ambivalent, where does anxious attachment style come from? Fear? Well, anxious is a type of fear, but it's a fear that you're going to leave me, and that comes from early childhood. Don't leave me, that's what anxious ambivalent. So you're going to leave me? I go ambivalent DC, that's the anxious ambivalent that comes from childhood. Right, So you have to understand that as an adult, you develop that protective mechanism to survive when you were an infant, when you were a baby, to survived childhood. None of our parents are perfect. There might have been moments where they were inconsistent and didn't meet your needs when you needed them to. That doesn't mean they're bad people or bad parents. It just means they missed opportunities to tap in when you needed that, when you needed it most. Right, Still great people, you see what I'm saying. But what happens with attachment styles? What do you do you take them into adult relationships? They were good for when you were an infant, When you were a child, they were good. They protected you, they kept you safe. But as an adult, what do you need most? You need authenticity and you need vulnerability. But if you're trying to vet them instead of letting them, vetting versus you see, that was our topic. I don't know last week. Sometimes vetting is make sure you're right, right for me, right for the family, right for the tribe, right for everything, and then we're good. No. Allowance is a part of loving. If love is not restrictive, the highest form of it is called unconditional love. It can't be conditioned, which is a restriction. Right, Yeah, does that make sense? We cook it or we cooking? You got a question? Go ahead ask me another question. You got me turned up tonight. I'm just happy you're here. I'm lit tonight because Jasmine from TikTok, who single handedly blew up the relationship dismount brought it back to life. It was on a respirator. It was on a respirator. Jasmine said, not this evening, not this even Andy. Can I get a praise break for Jasmine? Let's get it. Yeah, we go to church every now and again when we're happy, So forgive the phrase, forgive the praise break. I got somebody on the line who might want to talk to you, Jasmine, Would you take advice from some of my callers? Are you with that? Yeah? We lt tonight. We all want the Voice of Reason, the rarest relationship radio show in the world. But guess what. Before we do that, we're gonna come forward and then we're gonna bring in one of the Voice of Reason's most legendary voice. As a matter of fact, all of the Voice of Reason ushers come down to the pole pit. I need Nikki from the SIP. We want to surround this young lady with beautiful advice. The number of doll is one, eight hundred nine twenty fifteen eighty. I need Nikki from the SIP. I got Valerie. I need Cali's soul. I need all of your john from Hawaii. I need you all to come on down. Let's get it. Tell me sue ubiquitous. If you think you've never seen it, you have not looked. We meet people who fly off the handle. We meet people who shut down, we meet people who are very difficult. No, it's a very family. It doesn't have a drug addicted, alcoholic, disturbed person. You know. One thing I like to say, they give electric Are there any normal people who come from normal families in the audience, And sometimes one or two people raise their hands say can I please come to your family for Thanksgiving? Because I've never been to a normal family. Name is Bessel van der Kolk. I'm a psychiatrist neuroscientist. I have been studying trauma for about fifty years now. I've treated a whole variety of different traumatized populations see trauma in many different countries around the world. And I am the author of the book The Body Keeps His Court. I love well. I'm not really a fan of mister. I don't know vander Klock because he gets a lot of his stuff from Babbett Rothchild. His is the body keep the score. Hers is the body remembers, and he draws a lot of his information from Bibbet Rothschild Rothchild. I like Babbett's work. But vander klaw clock is cool. He cool? Whatnot? This is his first appearance on the VR. We given him a little love. We got Jasmine and Valerie on the line. Jasmine was just about our Valerie is about to land the plane with her empowerment statement to the young Jasmine about the cultivation and the development of femininity and not looking for a man to trigger it in her, but to flower it within herself. Please land the plane for me, Valerie. Well, in dating, I would say that a shift from attraction to connection and the attraction day, and also rooting yourself in the wisdom that everyone has an agenda and there's no failed relationships, they're just exercises and capacity. Jasmine, what are your thoughts on what Valerie shared with you. I think it's really great perspective, especially the part about limiting your femininity or putting it in someone else's hands, to allow yourself, allow yourself to reach a certain point of it, and then in the opposite end, being so independent that someone might see it and be like, oh, well, I don't have to work as hard or I don't have to give this person as much, and then accepting bare minimum because I think I've definitely found myself in situations that mirrored that dynamic. I love that. I love that. Valerie, guess what you just is? Sweetheart wrote some Mama Love from La. Come on, so mama love from La. We got a whole community over here showing Jasmine some love. I love it. If you want to bring your city in the building, all you got to do is call me at one eight hundred and nine, twenty fifteen eighty. We're mentoring callers with callers. Zoe Williams is the first to ever do it. Have you ever seen it? Andy? We got callers mentoring callers. This is this is a community. Let's talk about it. Nine, twenty fifteen eighty. Cali Sould from Denver, Colorado is on the line. Cali, what would you say to our young friend Jasmine Jasmine? Cali, Cali Jasmine say Hi, Hey. Jazz, Hello Hi. So I just want to take some time to welcome you to our little community here. Don't let this the last time you tap in, hop in the chat, hop on the live call in all of your questions, go home, think about things, talk to your friends about it. I've been under the tutelage of Zoe for about six years now in the commune unity, and I've grown so much being here. Got a lot of perspectives, had a lot of questions, had a lot of like pushback too, But all in all, you're in a safe space for healing, for growth, and for you to understand yourself a little bit more and understand the relationships that you're going to magnetize to yourself in the future. Thank you. You're welcome to welcome and you're welcome here. I was listening to another teacher on Sunday and who said something so profound that really shook me. And I knew it before, I've heard it before, but it really shook me the time he said, anytime you pray for something and you're fearful about what you pray for and you really. Don't want it, the fear will repel it. Yeah. A lot of times we think like, oh, I've been asking for this thing but it's not showing up. Or I've been in a situation where I've manifested exactly what I want and then I talk myself out of it. Listen, you wait, you just blew my mind because when you said that, spirit downloaded a thought. Don't date for validation, date for recalibration. Do you see the anxious person is dating to be validated. I'm enough, I'm worthy, I'm here, you see me. You can't date for that. You have to date to be recalibrated. Why because you have this anxious ambivalent attachment And if you know anything about attachment styles, they're fluid. They don't have to be with you forever. They should not be your operating system. Does that make sense, Jasmine? Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Do you see what I'm saying? So let's first say this because Cali just turned that in on in me. Man, It just okay, listen first, I'm not dating to be approved. I'm dating for something to be removed. Do you see these? Something has to be removed, something that served me in childhood but no longer serves me an adult intimate relationship? Y'all? To stay right there? Don't nowhere? Lord, we own fire tonight. Let's get it. Ask yourself these two questions, What do I want to exist even if I don't? And how much of a difference do I make to it? If you've got good answers to both of those, you have meaning in life. If you have only the first, but not the second. You're seeking, you have neither. You're in trouble. I don't need to hear anymore. Who was that Andy that was fire? Those two questions, Jean Vervak. I love it, Ladies and gentlemen, the voice of reason is on fire. We're getting ready to land this plane. I have two sisters on the phone right, and they are mentoring each other and speaking with each other. This is a village, and I just loved these types of interactions, right and Cali Soul is from Denver, Colorado, and Jasmine is from Washington's the state of Washington, Ladies and gentlemen. And again, if you're just tuning in, she created a viral moment for my first relationship book and blew it out the water. You know, she just had a real authentic and sincere and vulnerable moment. She approached an African American couple and they ministered to her and poured into her and loved on her. And I wanted to create the same kind of environment here on the radio. I reached out to her. I mean when I say she blew the book up, the video she posted is crazy. It's like almost at nine hundred thousand views and she dropped it four days ago, and so I'm just thankful that she did that, and I'm appreciative of her for doing that. But she's in my village right now, So Cali Soul, please finish talking to our good friend Jasmine. I also came from a matriarch to his family. And again, like I said, I just been under those two lived in books shows the past years and turns within and was really able to stop in myself because I needed a lot of thought. And going back to the fair conversation, you prayed for something and you actually have to peaked about what your friend was ready for and it unfolds to you, and thoughts with something that I had to pray about. Real you know, real talk, like if God helped me to. Soften me and it happens to it, I little. I feel a long way to go, and I'm grateful for the journey. I'm grateful that you're so courageous in that moment of your curiosity and need and. Stepped out on faith and asked somebody question that needing answer to you so of me and just continue to. Join us here and be a part of the family. Asked questions and keep on the journey because you edit in the. Right direction, jasmine your thoughts on what Calli's soul just shared with you. Thank you so much for your words there. I really appreciate them. I think the prayer and wondering if you're prepared for what God has in store, you know the stuff that you're going to have to deal with, is definitely something worth reflecting on. And Yeah, I think in this season of life, I have been challenged to discover my softness in other ways, specifically in the way I resolve conflict with people and like with my friends and family, and that's made me a lot more receptive to affection because I haven't been a physical touch person for a while, and being more vulnerable with people definitely started with that interaction that I had with the couple at the park when they gave me a hug the woman who was there, I was able to really let go and cry in her arms and be comforted by that instead of being fearful of it. Yeah. So I've been able to take that and challenge myself to also be offer that softness to my family whenever we are going through something or even if we're just enjoying the moment. My sister is really big on hug so I've been letting her give me more hugs throughout the day and or throughout the month instead of the one hug per holiday. Wow. I love that. I don't forget to offer the softness to yourself as well. Yes, yes, yeah, that's the key to healing. Yeah, that's the key to healing. Going in and loving on oneself with a loving witness, no judgment, no criticism, no verdict. That's the key to healing. It's not outside, it's inside. Calli. So guess what you just did, sweetheart, Denver, Colorado is in the building. We appreciate Calli for pouring into young Jasmine. Jasmine, please tell everyone where they can follow you. Let's get the nation following her TikTok page. Let's get her to ten thousand subscribers. Where do they find you? Jasmine? On TikTok, my username is jasm dot nr. It's on all my socials, but primarily TikTok is where I'm the most open and vulnerable about whatever I'm going through in life. I so appreciate you sharing tonight. I so appreciate you giving of your time and listen, as Kelli Soul said, you have a standing invite to come back. Call back anytime you like. If you're going through something, you can call in here and turn this into your personal couch. You can sit on the couch and say, oh, I'm doing this, that and the third what's going on? And we'll walk with you. Okay, awesome, Thank you so much. I really appreciate you giving me this space to decompress my thoughts a bit moreolutely. Now we have a ritual here. I noticed you. You had to have noticed. How I get you know, I let the callers go. I asked them a question and then they respond, did you hear the question? No? The question? So I asked the question, guess what you just did? Yeah? And then they respond, well, you gotta bring your city in the building. So you could say, I brought Washington in the building. I brought Denver in, I brought Hawaii in the I brought the whole North. Okay, yeah, all right, so hold on, let's get it right. I'm gonna ask you right now, yo, Jasmine, guess what you just did. I brought Tacoma. Tacoma, Washington is in the building for the first time on the v or R. We appreciate you, Jasmine. Hope to catch up with you soon. This was a great show man, great topic, and I just love the fluidity of it. I want people to understand something man. Nobody enters a relationship empty handed. Every person carries attachment patterns, childhood conditioning, cultural beliefs, religious teachings, trauma adaptations, family mythology, previous heartbreak, and a lifetime of conclusions about what love should feel like. These become the invisible lenses right through which every partner is interpreted. They help us navigate intimacy until intimacy present an experience. Those lenses just don't have the words for it. They just simply can't explain them. That moment feels like confusion. Perhaps it deserves another name. Suppose confusion is neither failure nor success. Suppose it is the frontier where yesterday's knowledge reaches its limit and tomorrow's consciousness has not yet found a language for it. Then an even more unsettling possibility emerges. Many people spend years trying to escape confusion without ever realizing they have never been escaping the very experience of being capable to hold the moment that's expanding within them, right, they realizing they have never been escaping the very experience it's capable of expanding them. Many people will run from a situation that can grow you up because it's not familiar. Many people will run from a healed partner because they came from an unhealed household. Right, They would rather go to the unhealed partner because it's reminiscent of the unhealed household. Again, sometimes we're confused, but that confusion is just simply not knowing. And when you're not knowing, you're definitely growing. When you don't have an answer for it, you're definitely growing. Listen, I start conversations, it's entirely up to you to finish them. I'm the voice of reason, and I'll be back here tomorrow with another slapper. I appreciate y'all. Deuces