Speaker 1: I know.
Speaker 2: I have a quick question.
Speaker 1: This is so random. Are you guys together? Okay, I
was looking over there, and you guys just look like
a good couple. Like you've been together a long time,
almost five years. That's awesome. How do you know when
you like someone?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 1: How did you know that you liked her? And how
did you know that you liked him?
Speaker 4: Well, that's a little different for us.
Speaker 2: That's wear in our fifties.
Speaker 5: Recognize the honest answers and then how to weed out the.
Speaker 4: But what's most important is are you going.
Speaker 6: Through something.
Speaker 7: Just a little bit?
Speaker 1: Sorry, I'm sorry, I got you.
Speaker 4: There, you go release it. You're gonna una.
Speaker 2: Reason reason.
Speaker 1: I'm content in every place of my life.
Speaker 8: I have a fulfilling job and like.
Speaker 2: I have friendships that are so life giving.
Speaker 1: My family's amazing, and you know, my supporting system is
more than I could ask for.
Speaker 4: But it's just that one thing that I'm just like,
how do I know when.
Speaker 3: When I genuinely like someone?
Speaker 1: And I don't know, I just saw so much love
around it.
Speaker 3: You got you as long as you are loving your life,
and stop them because the person that they have to
compliment your life, I mean, you guys both have to
fit into something that's already wonderful and to be deserving them.
Speaker 4: And you too, and you both of you because it's
gonna be work. It's not easy. I made a cognitive
decision to love.
Speaker 5: Also, all you can be accountable is for your involvement
and any misunderstanding. That's all you got control, okay, and
you just do that the best of your ability.
Speaker 4: You've got a whole bunch of life to.
Speaker 9: Being in schools.
Speaker 4: I'm gonna tell you what's so wonderfulul the fact that.
Speaker 5: You took the chance to say, I'm having a moment,
let me go talk to this whatever the universe has
for you, keep.
Speaker 4: That smile on you.
Speaker 5: Just make sure you're ready to ask questions that are
important to you.
Speaker 4: And if it don't feel right, you trusted. If you
don't feel right, don't trust it. But just be honest
say hey, hey, I appreciate this, but this just is
going in a direction that I'm gonna comfortable. But you're
an okay person that some men can't take rejection to
be careful. Yeah, but you know what, you just keep
being the best person you can be. That's all you got.
Control your emotion is genuine of wanting to have it.
But don't feel like your time is clicking because it
may not be.
Speaker 5: You continue to be happy as long as you are
having them all while you're enjoying your life, Gonna look back,
even travel for.
Speaker 1: You get to do it either.
Speaker 3: I can country, hurry up by yourself, find some girls
that want to go, or go by your damnself.
Speaker 4: I have been on two cruises before I met her
by myself, like.
Speaker 5: Pops, Yeah, we got an extended little girl over here,
all right?
Speaker 4: And what's your name, sweetie guy? Jazz man versus book,
It's called the relationship this man. I'll just stick the
landing with the ex siting a toxic relationship.
Speaker 5: That may just help you navigate on the type of
questions you made w that ask.
Speaker 4: When it's that time, like the relationship this man's name
of the I connected this for a reason, so I'm
not mad at that.
Speaker 5: Like I said, you mean my heart good like man,
a stranger decided to come, Pops, I'm cool with that.
Speaker 1: That's good ship, thank you. I don't know what possessed
me to ask that random couple for some relationship advice,
but I am so happy that I listened.
Speaker 4: I am so, so incredibly happy that I listened.
Speaker 1: This is your side to start asking strangers questions.
Speaker 9: Ladies and gentlemen. The voice of reason has returned to
the scene of the conversation. Man, it's been a tough
week in the name of sweet Baby raised Barbecue Sauce.
But let me say this, I'm blown away. I am
absolutely blown away. For many of you. You if you
were listening to my show on Thursday night was Thursday,
the sixth Thursday, the sixth of August, my second oldest
other died in the hospital at Huntington Hospital in Pasadena, California.
People who follow me noticed that clip that you just
heard right from a young content creator. Her name is Jasmine.
What's crazy is the clip was organic. She already had
filmed it and she was holding onto it for a second,
but she decided to drop it on the same day
that my brother passed. My brother passed on a Thursday,
seventeen years after my mother passed in two thousand and nine,
on a Thursday. My brother had been struggling with alcoholism,
and he was in a deeply toxic relationship and ashamed
didn't want family to come see him in his current state,
but we came anyway. He balked at it, he cussed
everybody out, and then we loved on him, and then
he softened and then he passed away. He was in
a convalescent home for four days and then he got ill,
and then they sent him back to the hospital. I
text my sister, I said, Hey, what room is he in?
Send me his room number, and I'm gonna get over
there right now. She sends me the room number. I said, oh,
my god. I looked at the room number, and I said, oh,
he's not coming out of there, just by looking at
the room number, because the room number was my mother's birthday,
four fourteen, in the same hospital she died in seventeen
years previously. On a Thursday, when I tell you the
universe is finely tuned, divinely too. The same day, Jasmine
drops a video that goes viral. That video clip I
played at the beginning of the show has damn near
a million views. She met a random couple African American
brother and sister, and they nurtured and loved on her
and mentored her in her moment of need, and randomly
the brother and the couple says, hey, you should get
this book called The Relationship Dismount How to stick the
landing when Exiting a toxic relationship. That's my book, and
because of her video, the book has gone viral. It's
in the top ten on Amazon right now. Sometimes we
don't want to have real conversations about life. We don't
want to have real conversations about relationships. I remember when
I first put the book out, people say, oh, this
is a breakup book. I don't need a breakup book.
We're doing fine, We're okay. They were afraid to read
the information. And I know on this show, I hit
you guys hard, and I hit you often. I hit
you every day with tough topics, with difficult topics about relationships.
But that young lady's video revived a book that is
eleven years old. It came out in twenty fifteen, and
I have her on the show Tonight, Ladies and Gentlemen,
without further ado, My goodness, Jasmine, come on into the
Voice of Reason, talk to me, young lady.
Speaker 7: Hello, Hello, it's so nice.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 9: You know, I couldn't let this slide. I was like
what people were tagging me and saying, Yo, they're talking
about your book. They're talking about your book, and I said, no,
get and I would listen to the video for a second,
and I'm busy, ripping and running. I didn't finish it.
And then finally I said, let me just sit down
and listen to the whole thing. And when I sat down,
I said, wow. And this happened on the same day
my brother passes, so you know, I was busy with him.
And then when you know, I had a moment to process,
I listened to the video and I said, what is
God up to? What is God is busy? God is working?
So what I wanted to do for you was a
continuation of what the couple was doing. And I have
I have a whole topic laid out, but before I
lay it, you know, lay it down, I really just
want to answer some of your questions, if you have any.
Speaker 10: Sure.
Speaker 1: Well, first off, I just want to say I am
so sorry for your loss. Thank you. I'm just learning
about that today. So I'm in my room in tears
because I just can't believe that the timing was that divine,
even not just in the encounter in the video, but
also posting it. I mean, as you mentioned, I had
it in my draft sitting there and I was so
embarrassed to post my vulnerability, and I was worried that
people were going to think that was desperate or maybe
just take things out of context. But the more I
listened to it, the more I realized the message was
so powerful that it almost felt greedy to keep it
to myself. And I also didn't check what you that
it was published until I started noticing people were in
such disbelief in that interaction, the raw human interaction, that
they thought it was like a skid or something, right, right, Yeah,
And so I'm just so happy that it's reached the
people that it needed to because a lot of those
comments and private messages I've received have been people who
also identify in that same issue of feeling stuck in
their dating life. Especially with the dating apps and social media.
It's completely changed the game. But a lot of the
values and the lessons in the book are timeless and
the still ring true today. So I really want to
thank you for publishing this work.
Speaker 9: Oh man, I'm excited to have you on and I
have a topic here and I would just love for you,
you know, to roll with me, and if you have questions,
please ask those questions, Okay, awesome. Yeah, So you think
about your questions and then I'm gonna set up our
topic and then I'm gonna bring you back in. Is
that cool?
Speaker 1: That sounds perfect?
Speaker 9: Perfect. Jasmine is on board with me tonight. She's revived
the relationship dismount how to stick the landing when exiting
a toxic relationship. And it's really interesting how social media works, right.
A clip can just go viral and it'll wake up
a title that is what they call a legacy title, right,
an older title that you know had its run, and
then people kind of discover it as they move along,
but you never see a real tsunami of interest around it.
And when I tell you what my last check, we've
done in four days, fifty six copies and it is
just going crazy. People have been getting the book and
I don't know the couple. She didn't know the couple,
and they just randomly mentioned the book. So let's get
into tonight's topic. It's kind of loosely based on what
Jasmine is experiencing and what probably many other people are experiencing.
Tonight's topic when the reality of love outruns what you
think you know about it, A deeper investigation into whether
Intimate confusion is where conditioning loses its authority. Stuckness begins
resisting the unknown, and relationship forces us beyond the psychological
past that has been choosing for us. Human beings rarely
fear confusion. They fear what confusion threatens to take away.
Every intimate relationship begins with the quiet confidence that we
understand love well enough to recognize it when it arrives.
Then something unexpected happens. The relationship refuses to obey our expectations.
Communication begins to break down, Our attraction levels and intensity
begin to change, Conflict starts to emerge, and then the
certainty that we were attached to in the beginning begins
to dissolve. Almost instinctively. We conclude that confusion signals dysfunction, incompatibility, betrayal,
or the beginning of the end. On tonight's topic, we're
going to investigate a far more dangerous conclusion. What if
intimate confusion is not always evidence that reality has become unclear?
What if it marks the precise moment your existing understanding
of love can no longer explain the reality standing right
in front of you. What if confusion is the end
of what you thought you knew about love, happiness and intimacy.
When I come forward, the voice of reason will continue
cooking up this meal.
Speaker 6: This a dialogue you head in oh Hi, California. We
had there.
Speaker 11: A dialogue between doctor Bull and myself and to Sha
and one David before yesterday. So maybe we continue with
the dialogue.
Speaker 6: And if should anybody join this or not at all?
Speaker 11: We're asking if anybody feels like joining this, unless it
is very very serious, would they join or they distantly
if they don't want to, It's all right. So it's
a conversation between doctor bourman myself.
Speaker 6: Let's get on with it. See we were saying the
other day, man a human being who has walked his
way through all the.
Speaker 11: Problems of life, both physical and psychological, and it's really
grasped with full significance of freedom from psychological memories and conflicts,
and traveled it comes to a point where the mind
finds itself free but not but hasn't gathered that supreme
energy to go beyond itself. That's what we were discussing
the other day.
Speaker 6: Can we still going on from there?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 11: Can the mind really mind brain, the whole psychological structure,
the ever free from all.
Speaker 6: Conflict from all shadow of any disturbance, disturbance, self disturbance,
self disturbance, and all that. Can it ever be free?
Speaker 11: Or the idea to a complete freedom is an illusion?
Speaker 5: Yes, well that's one one possibility is that what we're.
Speaker 2: Then some people might say we can have partial.
Speaker 6: Freedom, partial freedom or human condition is so.
Speaker 11: Determined by the past, by by its own auditioning, it
can never free itself from it, like they like some
of those intellectual philosophers have stated this.
Speaker 4: Yes, most some people, I feel that's the case.
Speaker 11: And really the the deep non citarian religious people, if
there are there must be some who are totally free
from all organized religions and beliefs and rituals, dougments, they have.
Speaker 6: Said it can be done. Very few have.
Speaker 1: Said this, well, of course those who have said it's
done through reincarnation.
Speaker 6: In addition, yes, it would take a very long time. Yes,
they said, You've take a very long time.
Speaker 11: You must go through various lives and suffer and go
through all kinds of miseries, and ultimately.
Speaker 6: You'll come to that. But we are not.
Speaker 10: In the US, the riches society in history. Fully half
of the citizens of a chronic disorders such as high
blood pressure or diabetans. Anxiety amongst young people is growing rapidly,
asthma and autoimmune diseases are on the rise, as our addictions,
depression is rising, youth suicide is rising. All is not well.
Speaker 12: I started heroin at twenty six.
Speaker 4: That's what really destroyed me. Just taste the pain away.
Speaker 1: It's easy to want to escape reality completely instead of
coping with that.
Speaker 10: And so the question is can we be human beings
in the midst of civilization M because what we call
civilization demands the denial of human needs.
Speaker 1: MM.
Speaker 9: Please, ladies and gentlemen. That was gobor Mate cooking with
the rarest grease. You're listening to the Voice of Reason
live on KBLA Talk fifteen eighty. We got a real
discussion here when the reality of love outruns what you
think you know about it. You see goobor Matie laying
out the landscape of life on planet Earth and why
depression is on the rise. Many of us have a
sense of stuckness in our relationships, and I tend to
believe we have this sense of stuckness because we use
relationship as a means to escape the reality in which
we live. Why can't I just be happy? Why can't
I just find somebody and we just chill and it
just be cool. That's because people don't understand the purpose
of relationships. And I have a young lady on the
line right now, and I'm a bringer right on in.
Her name is Jasmine. Jasmine. Where are you from?
Speaker 1: Originally, I'm from the Pacific Northwest, a.
Speaker 9: DC. I'm at Washington, Oregon. Yeah, Washington, Come on? Those
are our rivals down here? Oh yeah, college football? I
got I went there, the Huskies. I love it. I
love it. I'm so happy that you're here to join me.
I really want to walk with you and talk with
you about your story, about your relationship struggles or issues
or questions. Please share with me. Do you have any questions?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've got a couple questions. I think coming from
that interaction, I've learned that I've been overthinking dating because
I'm trying too hard to figure out if I'm compatible
with someone, and I wasn't really asking the right questions.
And I realized that I was losing my ability to
experience getting to know someone. And I was also approaching
dating in a very self centered way, where it's what
can this person do for me instead of how can
we compliment each other? And how could I also build
up the other person that's in front of me? And
I've also been pretty notorious for date eating my ideas.
And then one of the chapters in the book specifically
says not to date your ideas. And so I think
I've been learning how to read the signs when someone
is emotionally unavailable and walk away before I get to
invest it, and then I fantasize a reality where they
aren't like that. And yeah, so I think one of
my first questions is how do you are one can't
do right? Say? What question should I ask myself after
a date to determine whether I like the person or
I just liked how I felt around them?
Speaker 9: Well, that's an interesting question. So my question back to
you is before we answer that, because I'm gonna ask
you to ask that question again, but I want you
to ask it again from this perspective, What exactly are
you looking to get from the relationship from this special person?
This idea you said you used to date.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the idea that I'm looking for is
or that I find myself trying to fit people in.
Is someone who's family oriented that I could raise a
family with that my family would approve of, and they're
pretty accepting. So I think I just put way too
much pressure on that part too. And then also someone
who treasures me and makes me feel soft and feminine,
because it's really hard for me to step into that
just because I've been I've been led by a lot
of strong women and I'm inspired by them, and a
lot of them are pretty independent and don't really rely
on other people to wait make things happen for themselves.
Speaker 9: So wait, let me show you something. You are outsourcing
your power because you want someone to make you soft.
That's an inside job. Now you've already mentioned the family pattern.
The women are strong, but you want the man to
come into your life and trigger your softness when you
can do that yourself. I'm not saying it's a bad
thing to want that. I'm not saying you should change
that expectation, but you have to be what you seek
in order to magnetize it into your life. DC. Oftentimes
we want softness when in fact, you just gave me
a perfect example. What do we do as children? According
to developmental psychology, we model the environment we were raised
in so you modeled the strength of the women in
your household when you were a child, Right, But yet
you want to be soft? So is it the man's
responsibility to trigger it? Or is it your responsibility to say,
you know what, as an adult woman who wants to
be soft with a man, I don't need this part
of my modeling that I inherited as a child. Dcy.
Does that make sense? Yes, stay with me, don't go nowhere.
Me and jazzmin we gonna keep cooking. The voice of
reason is on complete fire tonight. I got a special
one for you. Let's go.
Speaker 12: So why does good sex so often fade, even for
couples who continue to love each other as much as ever?
And why does good intimacy not guarantee good sex contrary
to popular belief? Or the next question would be can
we want what we already have? That's the million dollar question, right?
And why is the forbidden so erotic? What is it
about transgression that makes desires so potent? And why does
sex make babies and babies spelerotic disaster in couples? It's
kind of the fatal erotic blow, isn't it? And when
you love, how does it seem.
Speaker 9: That's ethel right. I want to get back to Jasmine
because me and Jasmine are cooking right now. Jasmine, are
you there with me?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm still here.
Speaker 9: All right. So you were asking, right, and I was
answering right. I was telling you about the softness of
a woman. Right, there's a power in women that men
can never possess. You have it by default. You have it.
So you have to go inside and realize, Oh, being
a strong woman is good in certain areas, right, But
if I want to attract a man who likes a
soft woman, I have to cultivate that softness within myself.
Do you know how to do that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I believe so.
Speaker 9: Well, talk to me. What has been the problem?
Speaker 1: I think it's more having my guardup around people and
not necessarily feeling like it's safe to be vulnerable around
someone understood.
Speaker 9: Yes, yeah, Is it safe to be vulnerable with yourself?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 9: Yes? Okay, that's the start, right, Self vulnerability, self acceptance,
self approval. Do you struggle with some of that?
Speaker 1: I think I used to a lot more in the past,
like ten years, but I've been going to therapy and
doing the work to trust my instincts a little.
Speaker 13: More and yeah, and just have positive self talk instead
of always trying to put myself down or raise myself
to these standards that don't really make sense for being
a human.
Speaker 9: Beautiful, But do you see how that kind of talk
has its own frequency and vibration. And if you look
at yourself as a type of lighthouse, right, what is
the purpose of a lighthouse? What does it do? What
is its function?
Speaker 1: It draws people in from the storm from darkness.
Speaker 9: Yeah, they see the light from the lighthouse, they say, oh,
the shore is over there. Wayward ships sometimes we call
in wayward situationships right from whatever frequency is emitting from us.
I'm going to tell you this, A person you're looking
for can never be the answer to your problems. They
can only be a questiones to an answer that you
carry within yourself. So let's play a little game. How
many inside jobs are there? We've heard that happiness is
an inside job, But how many other inside jobs are there?
Can you enlighten me?
Speaker 1: I wouldn't be able to put a number on it.
Speaker 9: WHOA No, just name a few. If happiness is an
inside job, what else would there be?
Speaker 1: Fulfillment?
Speaker 14: Yes, self fulfilling yes, yes, self esteem yeah, self work,
but dignity. Yeah, So oftentimes we'll go into a relationship
and say, how are you going to show up for me?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 9: You gave me that example in your opening statement. Right,
we're supposed to go into relationships and observe how we're
going to respond because guess what relationships offer for us,
every individual that's in a relationship. Guess what it offers?
Growth a mirror. And you're right, that's the right answer. Growth.
But you can't grow unless you see yourself in real time.
And relationships are mirrors. They show us through our partner,
what we need to work on, what we need to
deal with. The reason why I wrote the relationship dismount
was to show people. You hear people talking about it
all the time. Are there're patterns, negative patterns, patterns, patterns, patterns? Right?
You hear people talk about patterns in relationships. Well, a
gymnast uses a routine which is a type of pattern. Right,
They use this routine and if they don't stick the
landing for the routine, the routine is ruined. Right. That
routine is a pattern. I say, oh, this is a
beautiful metaphor for relationships. If we don't heal what broke
us early or what we use to survive our our
home environment, and listens to say that every home is
toxic or broken or negative. But everybody has work that
they need to deal with, even the best homes. Right,
everybody's family has some kind of issue.
Speaker 15: Right.
Speaker 9: So all I'm saying is, if you don't address those
issues and you go into the relationships, if relationship is
a mirror the issues that you carry from home, you
carry into your intimate life. Does that make sense? Right?
So what should we do when we're going into relationships?
We should be looking at ourselves? How am I going
to react? Do I want to react or do I
want to respond? Do I know the difference from reaction
and response? Is reaction negative? Is responding positive? Does that
make sense?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 9: Yes? So I'm asking you. Sounds like you had a
pretty good upbringing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, I did.
Speaker 9: So talk to me. What example are you trying to
recreate from that life in your new intimate life?
Speaker 1: I would say my parents they faced a lot of
hardships being immigrants, teen parents, and they faced a lot
of judgment and criticism because they had me out of wedlock,
and they were always carrying that type of shame for
a while, but they tried their best to give to
others and give, give, give, Sometimes they would never receive
a thank you. But their home has always been an
open place that people can come and rest and just
find some type of sanctuary in case they did run
away or they got kicked out, or they have money problems.
And they've had such a beautiful marriage and they're so affectionate,
and they are always like each other's first person to
talk about an issue or talk about their day. And
they definitely do push it to the mags because they
work together and they share their hobbies and friends. But
I really do adore the way that they put each
other first, and they put their marriage first. So even
when we have or they have like struggles with parenting
with me and my sister, or they always make sure
that they're good first and they're on the same page
before introducing parenting or resolving another conflict outside of the family.
Speaker 9: I love that. I love that you had a good upbringing, right,
But you do know you have your own journey and
your own path, and sometimes sometimes the hardest thing to
do is try to recreate what you were born into.
Sometimes you have to create something new and in order
to do that. One of the worst breakups to ever
happen is the one with family. And when I say
with family, I don't mean leave your family. I mean
break up with the way and your image and your
idea of how you think it should be. Because sometimes
love will come out of nowhere, and because you're looking
at it through this pattern, through this lens of what
you think it should supposed to be, you might miss it.
You might not recognize it staring you right in your face.
Does that make sense? Yeah, stay right there, don't go nowhere. Jasmine,
you are on fire right now, we are cooking. You
are giving me life tonight. I love it. Jasmine is
on the line when we come forward.
Speaker 8: I love a great mystery, and I'm fascinated by the
greatest unsolved mystery in science, perhaps because it's personal. It's
about who we are, and I can't help but be curious.
The mystery is this, what is the relationship between your
brain and your conscious experiences, such as your experience of
the taste of chocolate or the feeling of velvet. Now,
this mystery is not new. In eighteen sixty eight, Thomas
Huxley wrote, how it is that anything so remarkable as
a state of consciousness comes about as the result of
irritating nervous tissue. Is just as unaccountable as the appearance
of the genie when Aladdin rubbed his lamp. Now, Huxley
knew that brain activity and conscious experiences are correlated, but
he didn't know why. To the science of his day,
it was a mystery. In the years since Huxley, science
has learned a lot about brain activity, but the relationship
between brain activity and conscious experiences is still a mystery.
Why why have we made so little progress? Well, some
experts think that we can't solve this problem because we
lack the necessary concepts and intelligence. We don't expect monkeys
to solve problems in quantum mechanics, and as it happens,
we can't expect our species to solve this problem either.
Well I disagree. I'm more optimistic. I think we've simply
made a false assumption. Once we fix it, we just
might solve this problem. Today, I'd like to tell you
what that assumption is, why it's false, and how to
fix it. Let's begin with a question. Do we see
reality as it is? I open my eyes and I
have an experience that I describe as a red tomato
a meter away. As a result, I come to believe
that in reality, there's a red tomato a meter away.
I then close my eyes and my experience changes to
a gray field. But is it still the case that
in reality there's a red tomato a meter away? I
think so? But could I be wrong? Could I be
misinterpreting the nature of my perceptions? We have misinterpreted our
perceptions before. We used to think the Earth is flat
because it looks that way, but Thagoras discovered that we
were wrong. Then we thought that the Earth is the
unmoving center of the universe, again because it looks that way.
Coprinicus and Galileo discovered again that we were wrong. Galileo
then wondered.
Speaker 9: Ladies and gentlemen, the VR is back in the building,
the Voice of Reason. I'm on the phone with Jasmine. Oh,
I'm enjoying my time with Jasmine. Jasmine, are you enjoying
your time on the vo R?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I love it. So that clip? Who was that
clip by Andy? That was a good clip. He was
talking about perspectivity, the perception. And I have a question
for Jasmine. In this journey of relationships and learning how
to connect with others and seeing what fits and what
doesn't fit. That was Donald Hoffman, by the way, the
clip What has come up that has shown you that
your perception of your interactions with these various guys that
you dated, you know, getting to know nothing serious? What
has come up? They said? You know, I saw that wrong.
My perception was off. Does that happen? What is the
process of that and what do you learn? How do
you change when something does come up and you go,
I think I got that wrong? Does that happen to you?
Talk to me?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think when I meet people sometimes I get really
fixated on trying to figure them out on a first
date because it's like that redundant. I think when you're
on dating apps, you're in this revolving door of options,
and so you're constantly thinking like, Okay, is there something
better out there? When can I stop this interaction because
it's not going to lead anywhere? And I think that
it's a little sometimes unrealistic to expect. I want to
show their true selves on a first date.
Speaker 9: But why do you want them to? Let's go into that.
Speaker 1: I think I want to because I just want to
get it right. My friends and family they're so supportive
of me, and they're always saying, man, I wonder the
person who's going to be your person, like who you're
going to introduce to the family, and I'm so excited
to meet your partner. And so there's been all this
anticipation built up around it that I think I cave
with the pressure. And it makes me a little nervous
about missing a red flag or disappointing people around me
who love me and cherish me, because there has been
a couple moments where I didn't pick the best person
and that person hurt me, and I was realized now
that I was enabling that behavior by also staying when
I should have walked away. Yes, but those moments were
really isolating whenever I was trying to figure things out
or make things work with someone that I wasn't compatible with.
And so it's like, I don't want to face that
loneliness again or feel like I have to hide that
person from the people that I love who know that
I'm capable of more and that they might be holding
me back or hurting me or have frustrations that you know,
it's it's not a good thing.
Speaker 9: And I totally understand that I am an African American man.
You are a Latina, right, Am I right about that?
A Latina?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm a Mexican American.
Speaker 9: Yeah. So we're from We're both from collectivistic societies. So
when we meet somebody, we're basically meeting the tribe. We're
meeting the family. Everybody got to be happy with everybody
got to be on board, right, So I totally understand that.
But I want you to understand that, Yes, relationship has
a social application, and a cultural application, and a familial application,
but it also has a spiritual and psychological application. Remember this.
Did you learn from the negative person that you dated?
Did you learn something about yourself?
Speaker 13: Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I learned a lot.
Speaker 9: You tell me?
Speaker 1: Sare I think that I learned that I need to
speak up when something bothers me instead of letting resentment
grow or shame keep me from talking or voicing my frustrations.
Speaker 9: Where did the shame come from?
Speaker 1: I'm not too sure, I think. Well, actually, looking back,
it's definitely in the past feelings of unworth and feeling
like I'm not deserving of asking someone to respect my boundaries.
Speaker 9: Now, you said you were in therapy. Did your therapist
happen to share your attachment style with you.
Speaker 1: We have not spoken about it, but I believe I'm
anxious ambivalent.
Speaker 9: I can feel the anxious on you, baby. But listen, listen, listen, listen.
You can't control it. Love is not to be controlled
by fear, by pressure, by family, peer pressure. To get
it right. Every relationship is right, except the ones that
are physically violent. Right. Everyone is right because it mirrors
where you are. Sometimes we beat ourselves up. Me an
example of that early right when you were talking about
negative self talk and how you were very critical of yourself. Well,
that's a type of self abuse.
Speaker 15: Right.
Speaker 9: Well, if that's a vibration, if that's a frequency, you
can call that in in the form of a partner.
Do you see what I'm saying? Does that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 9: You see what I'm saying. So this is why I
started with inside job work. Right self esteem. There's a
great book by doctor Glenn R. Charraldy Glenn R. Chiraldy, PhD.
It's called the Self Esteem Work Book Right, Self Esteem Workbook.
It is an amazing book. I in my coaching, I
reference it right and I give it to the clients
that I talk to and let me just say, coming
into a relationship hole is way different then coming into
a relationship hoping that they can fill holes. DC, I
need you to feel this worthiness whole. I need you
to feel this, I deserve whole. I need you to
feel this, I'm seen whole or I'm heard whole. Right,
you have to come in filling those holes so you
can get to know another whole person. Does that make sense?
Speaker 1: Mm hmmm, right, it makes perfect sense.
Speaker 15: Yes.
Speaker 9: See, let me tell you something about relationship. It will
expose you. Relationships are designed to trigger you. So what
is the trigger? What is it to you when you
get triggered? What is that?
Speaker 1: I definitely think it's the not feeling heard or understood.
You know what I think understand?
Speaker 9: Yeah? You want know what I think it is?
Speaker 1: Yeah, homework.
Speaker 9: When you get triggered, oftentimes we want the person to
stop doing whatever they're doing to trigger us. We want
we put it on them to change instead of looking
at the trigger as data as information about myself. Why
am I triggered? Where did the trigger come from? When
they do that? Why do I react this way? DC?
This is the information that we get from the University
of You.
Speaker 15: I e.
Speaker 9: Relationships, Relationships teach us about us. Now we've turned them
into these playgrounds of leisure. Where are we going to eat?
Let's take a picture of our plate. Uh, you know,
let's post our lunch or our dinner on Instagram. Let's
go you know what I mean. We've turned it into
this place of leisure. But psychologically speaking, relationships reveal us
to ourselves the parts of ourselves that we're uncomfortable with.
So if your therapist said anxious ambivalent, where does anxious
attachment style come from?
Speaker 3: Fear?
Speaker 9: Well, anxious is a type of fear, but it's a
fear that you're going to leave me, and that comes
from early childhood. Don't leave me, that's what anxious ambivalent.
So you're going to leave me? I go ambivalent DC,
that's the anxious ambivalent that comes from childhood. Right, So
you have to understand that as an adult, you develop
that protective mechanism to survive when you were an infant,
when you were a baby, to survived childhood. None of
our parents are perfect. There might have been moments where
they were inconsistent and didn't meet your needs when you
needed them to. That doesn't mean they're bad people or
bad parents. It just means they missed opportunities to tap
in when you needed that, when you needed it most. Right,
Still great people, you see what I'm saying. But what
happens with attachment styles? What do you do you take
them into adult relationships? They were good for when you
were an infant, When you were a child, they were good.
They protected you, they kept you safe. But as an adult,
what do you need most? You need authenticity and you
need vulnerability. But if you're trying to vet them instead
of letting them, vetting versus you see, that was our topic.
I don't know last week. Sometimes vetting is make sure
you're right, right for me, right for the family, right
for the tribe, right for everything, and then we're good. No.
Allowance is a part of loving. If love is not restrictive,
the highest form of it is called unconditional love. It
can't be conditioned, which is a restriction. Right, Yeah, does
that make sense? We cook it or we cooking? You
got a question? Go ahead ask me another question. You
got me turned up tonight. I'm just happy you're here.
I'm lit tonight because Jasmine from TikTok, who single handedly
blew up the relationship dismount brought it back to life.
It was on a respirator. It was on a respirator.
Jasmine said, not this evening, not this even Andy. Can
I get a praise break for Jasmine? Let's get it. Yeah,
we go to church every now and again when we're happy,
So forgive the phrase, forgive the praise break. I got
somebody on the line who might want to talk to you, Jasmine,
Would you take advice from some of my callers? Are
you with that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 9: We lt tonight. We all want the Voice of Reason,
the rarest relationship radio show in the world. But guess what.
Before we do that, we're gonna come forward and then
we're gonna bring in one of the Voice of Reason's
most legendary voice. As a matter of fact, all of
the Voice of Reason ushers come down to the pole pit.
I need Nikki from the SIP. We want to surround
this young lady with beautiful advice. The number of doll
is one, eight hundred nine twenty fifteen eighty. I need
Nikki from the SIP. I got Valerie. I need Cali's soul.
I need all of your john from Hawaii. I need
you all to come on down. Let's get it.
Speaker 16: Tell me sue ubiquitous. If you think you've never seen it,
you have not looked. We meet people who fly off
the handle. We meet people who shut down, we meet
people who are very difficult. No, it's a very family.
It doesn't have a drug addicted, alcoholic, disturbed person.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 16: One thing I like to say, they give electric Are
there any normal people who come from normal families in
the audience, And sometimes one or two people raise their
hands say can I please come to your family for Thanksgiving?
Because I've never been to a normal family. Name is
Bessel van der Kolk. I'm a psychiatrist neuroscientist. I have
been studying trauma for about fifty years now. I've treated
a whole variety of different traumatized populations see trauma in
many different countries around the world. And I am the
author of the book The Body Keeps His Court.
Speaker 9: I love well. I'm not really a fan of mister.
I don't know vander Klock because he gets a lot
of his stuff from Babbett Rothchild. His is the body
keep the score. Hers is the body remembers, and he
draws a lot of his information from Bibbet Rothschild Rothchild.
I like Babbett's work. But vander klaw clock is cool.
Speaker 1: He cool?
Speaker 9: Whatnot? This is his first appearance on the VR. We
given him a little love. We got Jasmine and Valerie
on the line. Jasmine was just about our Valerie is
about to land the plane with her empowerment statement to
the young Jasmine about the cultivation and the development of
femininity and not looking for a man to trigger it
in her, but to flower it within herself. Please land
the plane for me, Valerie.
Speaker 7: Well, in dating, I would say that a shift from
attraction to connection and the attraction day, and also rooting
yourself in the wisdom that everyone has an agenda and
there's no failed relationships, they're just exercises and capacity.
Speaker 9: Jasmine, what are your thoughts on what Valerie shared with you.
Speaker 1: I think it's really great perspective, especially the part about
limiting your femininity or putting it in someone else's hands,
to allow yourself, allow yourself to reach a certain point
of it, and then in the opposite end, being so
independent that someone might see it and be like, oh, well,
I don't have to work as hard or I don't
have to give this person as much, and then accepting
bare minimum because I think I've definitely found myself in
situations that mirrored that dynamic.
Speaker 9: I love that. I love that. Valerie, guess what you
just is?
Speaker 7: Sweetheart wrote some Mama Love from La.
Speaker 9: Come on, so mama love from La. We got a
whole community over here showing Jasmine some love. I love it.
If you want to bring your city in the building,
all you got to do is call me at one
eight hundred and nine, twenty fifteen eighty. We're mentoring callers
with callers. Zoe Williams is the first to ever do it.
Have you ever seen it? Andy? We got callers mentoring callers.
This is this is a community. Let's talk about it. Nine,
twenty fifteen eighty. Cali Sould from Denver, Colorado is on
the line. Cali, what would you say to our young
friend Jasmine Jasmine? Cali, Cali Jasmine say Hi, Hey.
Speaker 11: Jazz, Hello Hi.
Speaker 2: So I just want to take some time to welcome
you to our little community here. Don't let this the
last time you tap in, hop in the chat, hop
on the live call in all of your questions, go home,
think about things, talk to your friends about it. I've
been under the tutelage of Zoe for about six years
now in the commune unity, and I've grown so much
being here. Got a lot of perspectives, had a lot
of questions, had a lot of like pushback too, But
all in all, you're in a safe space for healing,
for growth, and for you to understand yourself a little
bit more and understand the relationships that you're going to
magnetize to yourself in the future. Thank you. You're welcome
to welcome and you're welcome here. I was listening to
another teacher on Sunday and who said something so profound
that really shook me. And I knew it before, I've
heard it before, but it really shook me the time
he said, anytime you pray for something and you're fearful
about what you pray for and you really.
Speaker 9: Don't want it, the fear will repel it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. A lot of times we think like, oh, I've
been asking for this thing but it's not showing up.
Or I've been in a situation where I've manifested exactly
what I want and then I talk myself out of it.
Speaker 9: Listen, you wait, you just blew my mind because when
you said that, spirit downloaded a thought. Don't date for validation,
date for recalibration. Do you see the anxious person is
dating to be validated. I'm enough, I'm worthy, I'm here,
you see me. You can't date for that. You have
to date to be recalibrated. Why because you have this
anxious ambivalent attachment And if you know anything about attachment styles,
they're fluid. They don't have to be with you forever.
They should not be your operating system. Does that make sense, Jasmine?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that makes a lot of sense.
Speaker 9: Do you see what I'm saying? So let's first say
this because Cali just turned that in on in me. Man,
It just okay, listen first, I'm not dating to be approved.
I'm dating for something to be removed. Do you see these?
Something has to be removed, something that served me in
childhood but no longer serves me an adult intimate relationship? Y'all?
To stay right there? Don't nowhere? Lord, we own fire tonight.
Let's get it.
Speaker 17: Ask yourself these two questions, What do I want to
exist even if I don't? And how much of a
difference do I make to it? If you've got good
answers to both of those, you have meaning in life.
If you have only the first, but not the second.
You're seeking, you have neither. You're in trouble.
Speaker 9: I don't need to hear anymore. Who was that Andy
that was fire? Those two questions, Jean Vervak. I love it,
Ladies and gentlemen, the voice of reason is on fire.
We're getting ready to land this plane. I have two
sisters on the phone right, and they are mentoring each
other and speaking with each other. This is a village,
and I just loved these types of interactions, right and
Cali Soul is from Denver, Colorado, and Jasmine is from
Washington's the state of Washington, Ladies and gentlemen. And again,
if you're just tuning in, she created a viral moment
for my first relationship book and blew it out the water.
You know, she just had a real authentic and sincere
and vulnerable moment. She approached an African American couple and
they ministered to her and poured into her and loved
on her. And I wanted to create the same kind
of environment here on the radio. I reached out to her.
I mean when I say she blew the book up,
the video she posted is crazy. It's like almost at
nine hundred thousand views and she dropped it four days ago,
and so I'm just thankful that she did that, and
I'm appreciative of her for doing that. But she's in
my village right now, So Cali Soul, please finish talking
to our good friend Jasmine.
Speaker 2: I also came from a matriarch to his family.
Speaker 15: And again, like I said, I just been under those
two lived in books shows the past years and turns
within and was really able to stop in myself because
I needed a lot of thought. And going back to
the fair conversation, you prayed for something and you actually
have to peaked about what your friend was ready for
and it unfolds to you, and thoughts with something that
I had to pray about.
Speaker 2: Real you know, real talk, like if God helped me to.
Speaker 15: Soften me and it happens to it, I little. I
feel a long way to go, and I'm grateful for
the journey. I'm grateful that you're so courageous in that
moment of your curiosity and need and.
Speaker 2: Stepped out on faith and asked somebody question that needing
answer to you so of me and just continue to.
Speaker 15: Join us here and be a part of the family.
Asked questions and keep on the journey because you edit
in the.
Speaker 9: Right direction, jasmine your thoughts on what Calli's soul just
shared with you.
Speaker 1: Thank you so much for your words there. I really
appreciate them. I think the prayer and wondering if you're
prepared for what God has in store, you know the
stuff that you're going to have to deal with, is
definitely something worth reflecting on. And Yeah, I think in
this season of life, I have been challenged to discover
my softness in other ways, specifically in the way I
resolve conflict with people and like with my friends and family,
and that's made me a lot more receptive to affection
because I haven't been a physical touch person for a while,
and being more vulnerable with people definitely started with that
interaction that I had with the couple at the park
when they gave me a hug the woman who was there,
I was able to really let go and cry in
her arms and be comforted by that instead of being
fearful of it.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I've been able to take that and challenge myself
to also be offer that softness to my family whenever
we are going through something or even if we're just
enjoying the moment. My sister is really big on hug
so I've been letting her give me more hugs throughout
the day and or throughout the month instead of the
one hug per holiday.
Speaker 9: Wow.
Speaker 6: I love that.
Speaker 2: I don't forget to offer the softness to yourself as well.
Speaker 9: Yes, yes, yeah, that's the key to healing. Yeah, that's
the key to healing. Going in and loving on oneself
with a loving witness, no judgment, no criticism, no verdict.
That's the key to healing. It's not outside, it's inside. Calli.
So guess what you just did, sweetheart, Denver, Colorado is
in the building. We appreciate Calli for pouring into young Jasmine. Jasmine,
please tell everyone where they can follow you. Let's get
the nation following her TikTok page. Let's get her to
ten thousand subscribers. Where do they find you? Jasmine?
Speaker 1: On TikTok, my username is jasm dot nr. It's on
all my socials, but primarily TikTok is where I'm the
most open and vulnerable about whatever I'm going through in life.
Speaker 9: I so appreciate you sharing tonight. I so appreciate you
giving of your time and listen, as Kelli Soul said,
you have a standing invite to come back. Call back
anytime you like. If you're going through something, you can
call in here and turn this into your personal couch.
You can sit on the couch and say, oh, I'm
doing this, that and the third what's going on? And
we'll walk with you.
Speaker 1: Okay, awesome, Thank you so much. I really appreciate you
giving me this space to decompress my thoughts a bit moreolutely.
Speaker 9: Now we have a ritual here. I noticed you. You
had to have noticed. How I get you know, I
let the callers go. I asked them a question and
then they respond, did you hear the question?
Speaker 1: No? The question?
Speaker 9: So I asked the question, guess what you just did?
Speaker 13: Yeah?
Speaker 9: And then they respond, well, you gotta bring your city
in the building. So you could say, I brought Washington
in the building. I brought Denver in, I brought Hawaii
in the I brought the whole North. Okay, yeah, all right,
so hold on, let's get it right. I'm gonna ask
you right now, yo, Jasmine, guess what you just did.
Speaker 1: I brought Tacoma.
Speaker 9: Tacoma, Washington is in the building for the first time
on the v or R. We appreciate you, Jasmine. Hope
to catch up with you soon. This was a great
show man, great topic, and I just love the fluidity
of it. I want people to understand something man. Nobody
enters a relationship empty handed. Every person carries attachment patterns,
childhood conditioning, cultural beliefs, religious teachings, trauma adaptations, family mythology,
previous heartbreak, and a lifetime of conclusions about what love
should feel like. These become the invisible lenses right through
which every partner is interpreted. They help us navigate intimacy
until intimacy present an experience. Those lenses just don't have
the words for it. They just simply can't explain them.
That moment feels like confusion. Perhaps it deserves another name.
Suppose confusion is neither failure nor success. Suppose it is
the frontier where yesterday's knowledge reaches its limit and tomorrow's
consciousness has not yet found a language for it. Then
an even more unsettling possibility emerges. Many people spend years
trying to escape confusion without ever realizing they have never
been escaping the very experience of being capable to hold
the moment that's expanding within them, right, they realizing they
have never been escaping the very experience it's capable of
expanding them. Many people will run from a situation that
can grow you up because it's not familiar. Many people
will run from a healed partner because they came from
an unhealed household. Right, They would rather go to the
unhealed partner because it's reminiscent of the unhealed household. Again,
sometimes we're confused, but that confusion is just simply not knowing.
And when you're not knowing, you're definitely growing. When you
don't have an answer for it, you're definitely growing. Listen,
I start conversations, it's entirely up to you to finish them.
I'm the voice of reason, and I'll be back here
tomorrow with another slapper. I appreciate y'all. Deuces