Speaker 1: It's The Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast special report. The Lapsed
Speaker 1: Fan presents the Complete hull Coogan, a real American story
Speaker 1: brought to you by Garage Beer.
Speaker 2: Well, another Independence Day here in the United States of
Speaker 2: America is upon us, boss, is it not?
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, it is to celebrate America two hundred and
Speaker 3: fifty times.
Speaker 2: If you had two hundred and fifty times, and as
Speaker 2: if that hasn't been beaten over, folks had enough. That
Speaker 2: is what's special about twenty twenty six. And for us,
Speaker 2: if we're in the midst, if we're in the thick
Speaker 2: like we are of the Complete hul Cogan, can there
Speaker 2: be a more real American? It's so true. It prompted
Speaker 2: some reflection, some pause. It prompted us, I don't know
Speaker 2: this fourth to crack open a can of garage beer. Fuck. Yes,
Speaker 2: the most American of beers on this most American of holidays.
Speaker 2: Think about how we've enjoyed independence in twelve years of
Speaker 2: podcast dominance and forcing folks to collect our crumbs, be
Speaker 2: they you know, red, white, and blue cake. It could
Speaker 2: be yeah, it could be number of crumbs, but we
Speaker 2: thought it highly appropriate, highly appropriate, as we not only
Speaker 2: exit Hulk's initial run in New York from nineteen seventy
Speaker 2: nine to nineteen eighty one, where we started to see
Speaker 2: maybe some of the very first indications that he might
Speaker 2: have something in him that might equate to an American hero.
Speaker 2: And instead of just a preening and super hulking muscular
Speaker 2: BRAWNI heel that we'd also seek out the most American
Speaker 2: of voices from this point in Hulk's career. How about
Speaker 2: a legit mister Usa himself. We go and Hulk's final
Speaker 2: New York opponent in the seventy nine to eighty one run, Tony.
Speaker 2: So we're really excited to have connected with mister Ratless
Speaker 2: as part of the complete Hulk Cogan to get his
Speaker 2: reflections on sharing the ring with Hulk at this very
Speaker 2: fertile time for him, and in fact is you'll come
Speaker 2: to hear from the WWF and it's a it's a
Speaker 2: uniquely Tony Aatless experience. I would say, Indeed, he's clanging
Speaker 2: and banging, and we wanted to make this sort of
Speaker 2: a special Fourth of July treat for everybody, bringing mister
Speaker 2: Usa on talking about the most American of icons in
Speaker 2: Hulk Cogan and if we're going to do that. We
Speaker 2: thought it made sense to look ahead, just to peek
Speaker 2: kind of like we are looking ahead to the Summer
Speaker 2: of Lapsed. I mean, oh yes, let's be serious about
Speaker 2: how how real this is getting. I mean we're basically
Speaker 2: leaving at the end of the month.
Speaker 3: I mean we basically we are. I mean that's it.
Speaker 3: I mean, you know, this is kind of it that
Speaker 3: it begins. It begins at the end of this month
Speaker 3: and it doesn't let up until until pretty much the fall.
Speaker 2: So absolutely so not just having Tony Atlas on the
Speaker 2: year waves. It's not just thinking about Hulk Coogan. It's
Speaker 2: not just about the two hundred and fifteth University of
Speaker 2: the United States. It's also about the Summer of Lapsed
Speaker 2: and not only hitting that most America of spots America.
Speaker 3: Can I tell you something like exactly? You know what
Speaker 3: was funny is that I it's pathetic in a way,
Speaker 3: but you know, at the end of last year, in
Speaker 3: the beginning of this year, there were all these signs
Speaker 3: for two fifty. They're all talking about two fifty, and
Speaker 3: I was like, what fun are they talking about? I
Speaker 3: know they didn't make it fifty? What like I don't
Speaker 3: understand two fifty what are they talking about? And I
Speaker 3: was like, it's like it's it's an anniversary. It's like,
Speaker 3: oh shit, yes, no, like it didn't even dawn on me.
Speaker 2: I fifty is hardly a superstar weight.
Speaker 1: Exactly right.
Speaker 3: You wait for the big three hundred, you know, maybe
Speaker 3: hopefully we'll celebrate the three hundred and third. I think
Speaker 3: we will. We should anyway.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's like I said, been everywhere, But this
Speaker 2: is our little contribution and to what that is all meant.
Speaker 2: As we continue marching, we're about to enter a whole
Speaker 2: new chapter for hul Cochin. I mean, needless to say,
Speaker 2: some serious change is about to come to his presentation,
Speaker 2: but where he fits in the world, how he moves
Speaker 2: in the world. So we consider this yere interview with
Speaker 2: Tony Atlas kind of one last nod to the the
Speaker 2: Hogan that people still might call green, you know, the
Speaker 2: whole that still doesn't feel fully formed in some vital
Speaker 2: ways in terms of what he became. And so Tony's
Speaker 2: going to take us through all of that, and we're
Speaker 2: very excited about that. But as I said, America's mall
Speaker 2: SummerSlam weekend and then we go to you know, we
Speaker 2: got enemy territory exactly. You know, we go, we go
Speaker 2: where where you know we go to.
Speaker 1: We go to the home.
Speaker 2: Of of where we were vaulted. Because I mean, let's
Speaker 2: let's be clear. Even if Vern broke you into the
Speaker 2: A W A in the seventies when he was the
Speaker 2: promotional kingpin in the Twin Cities, who did he send
Speaker 2: you to get two to get broken? In the most
Speaker 2: English of shooters, Billy Roys Robinson brother. So we're bridging
Speaker 2: that Minneapolis London gap in our own very special way.
Speaker 2: Coming up, of course, August twenty eighth at the Dome
Speaker 2: in North London, the co Chairs take the stage for
Speaker 2: our very first, perhaps a very last live show in London.
Speaker 2: Tickets still available if you want to join us. Without
Speaker 2: further ado, let's pull ahead an article that appeared in
Speaker 2: Pro Wrestling Illustrated in August of nineteen eighty one. So
Speaker 2: that'll tell you how much of a lag the publication was,
Speaker 2: because we just finished talking about fucking funny how Hogan
Speaker 2: and Tony were wrestling in the spring. But not until
Speaker 2: late summer do the readers of p WI get a
Speaker 2: front page story on.
Speaker 3: Well hold on though hold on, don't forget though, it's
Speaker 3: not really late summer. Yes, this probably would have come
Speaker 3: out in June. Okay, that's a fair turnaround time. It
Speaker 3: just says August on the time. It's always hard because
Speaker 3: you never know, like these things are always you know,
Speaker 3: it's always it's such a I hate that, really, and
Speaker 3: I always said it a bunch of times. I hate
Speaker 3: that the magazines don't actually come out or the actual
Speaker 3: month isn't the actual month that they come out, and
Speaker 3: it's this weird you know, we've got to be ahead
Speaker 3: of the game. So it's almost like it's like car
Speaker 3: dealerships like, oh, you know, it's like, well, we got
Speaker 3: the twenty twenty seven model, Well, how do you have
Speaker 3: the twenty twenty seven model in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: Right, It's that the twenty twenty six model exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And not only does the date on the cover not
Speaker 2: reflect the date it came out, but the coverage in
Speaker 2: the magazine is two months before even that. Yep. So
Speaker 2: it's like, yeah, came out in June, and all the
Speaker 2: articles are about what was happening in April. And we
Speaker 2: ran into this earlier on the complete where we thought
Speaker 2: we had dispensed with the Sterling Golden run as truncated
Speaker 2: as it was in Georgia Championship Wrestling, and moved on
Speaker 2: at WWF and him being Chris and Hulkogan, and then
Speaker 2: all of a sudden, one of the after mag drops
Speaker 2: the big probing article on Sterling Golden and he isn't
Speaker 2: even on television as that anymore. Yeah, by the time
Speaker 2: it comes out. So we've been moving perhaps faster than
Speaker 2: the speed of the wrestling media and the wrestling business,
Speaker 2: and we're about to find that out. Sounds about right.
Speaker 2: But here we're gonna pull this one forward from the
Speaker 2: pages of p w I to set the table for
Speaker 2: our interview with Tony Atlas and a reflection on the
Speaker 2: feud he'll be talking about. He's featured on the cover
Speaker 2: the Press Slamming Hulk, and it's gonna be great to
Speaker 2: talk to Tony about the process of press slamming Hulk Cogan,
Speaker 2: so she could imagine there were concerns Boss, Yes, brother,
Speaker 2: to say the very least, But what are you pressing slamon?
Speaker 2: What are you all about? Looking terrified? And red trunks,
Speaker 2: red knee pads and are those gold boots?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've never seen him in gold boots,
Speaker 3: but no, maybe they're silver. Maybe they'res silver and they're
Speaker 3: catching the light in a weird way.
Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah, that's much more likely. Yeah, because we
Speaker 2: did see him in red and silver gear if I
Speaker 2: remember correctly, Yes, in our last nineteen eighty one episode.
Speaker 2: And he's got the gig tape on his forehead and
Speaker 2: his mouth is hanging open, and Terry's Terry's going out
Speaker 2: of WWF and style here in nineteen eighty one thanks
Speaker 2: to mister Usa. Look at that slam. It's a great
Speaker 2: shot too. It's a great picture, What a great what
Speaker 2: a spectacular visual to create after all those months and
Speaker 2: over a year in the territory being someone that you know,
Speaker 2: no one could budge unless you were Andre the Giant.
Speaker 2: Even Andre wasn't about to press lam Hogan over his head,
Speaker 2: and no one would ever do this again to Hulk ever,
Speaker 2: So enjoy Hulking press lamb while it lasts a warrior.
Speaker 2: I guess, yeah, he dropped him on his stomach, but yeah,
Speaker 2: the full slam over the top, but he does lift
Speaker 2: him up over his head. Yes, well we'll look forward
Speaker 2: to that as well. But here's how it was framed
Speaker 2: up for the research of pro wrestling. Illustrated Hulk Hogan's
Speaker 2: final program of his first run in New York from
Speaker 2: seventy nine to eighty one. The headline Tony Atlas versus
Speaker 2: Hulk Hogan the war between wrestlings Superman Boss take it away.
Speaker 3: They simply don't like each other. Let's amend that statement.
Speaker 3: They hate each other, hate each other with every fiber
Speaker 3: of their muscular bodies. Atlas ho Cogan laughed, called that
Speaker 3: got wrustler dustin guys on the beach who can wrestle
Speaker 3: way better than Atlas on.
Speaker 2: The beach.
Speaker 1: At the Gracie Beach in Rio. Well, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: you do think about it.
Speaker 3: Maybe uh in about fifteen no, yes, about ten twelve years.
Speaker 3: You know he would have you know, he wrestled guys
Speaker 3: like Jim Knighthar on the beach and thunder and Paradise
Speaker 3: and stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh is that what you mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's what he's talking about it. Okay, So
Speaker 2: I withdraw my point.
Speaker 3: Then that boy can't can't hold I candled a lot
Speaker 3: of a lot of people who are discriminated against because
Speaker 3: they don't know how, because they don't bow and scrape
Speaker 3: to the fans what I don't know, what the fuck
Speaker 3: what even means? Hulk Hogan's a loser, said Atlas. He
Speaker 3: ain't done nothing his big mouth that it said he
Speaker 3: would do. All he can do is shoot off his
Speaker 3: big mouth and make a lot about big mouthwaves because
Speaker 3: the mouthwaves. The big mouth waves with his mouth. Oh okay.
Speaker 2: That means by the discrimination point is Tony can't claim
Speaker 2: he's being discriminated against because what if he wasn't such
Speaker 2: a kiss ass? How much harder would he be discriminating?
Speaker 2: I guess so because he he knows he can't do
Speaker 2: nothing in the ring. A guy like Holgan ain't a
Speaker 2: wrastler but an oversized bum. This feud has been simmering
Speaker 2: for some time now. Unlike many feuds where the protagonists
Speaker 2: find themselves embroiled in something they never intended, the Atlas
Speaker 2: Hogan wars were inevitable even before they ended up in
Speaker 2: the same area. Why because in some respects they are
Speaker 2: quite similar. That remark prompts Angry to notiles. You know,
Speaker 2: ain't nothing you can say in the whole world without
Speaker 2: lead me to Atlas, just because I had a great
Speaker 2: body and that Atlas thinks he's got a great body.
Speaker 2: Ain't no reason to say there's any similarities at all.
Speaker 2: We're going to have to do some autopsy. Yes, just
Speaker 2: because I got a great body and that Atlas thinks
Speaker 2: he got a great body, ain't no reason to say
Speaker 2: there's any similarities at all. Okay, Yeah, just because he
Speaker 2: says he has a great body and I do too,
Speaker 2: he doesn't mean you have to agree. He's also has
Speaker 2: insured on this is world's greatest Jim Hamden, Connecticut. So wow,
Speaker 2: anyone who clanged and banged at the World's Greatest in
Speaker 2: Hamden eighty one?
Speaker 3: I guess yeah, not much. I think even know how
Speaker 3: to reach out to great or East World East Gym.
Speaker 3: Let's say it's not greatest East. Yeah, even great about it,
Speaker 3: that's for sure. For one statlast agrees with his foe.
Speaker 3: Lots of people look at us and all they can
Speaker 3: see is our physiques. You figure, since Hogan's built himself up,
Speaker 3: but I'm mister USA and been winning bodybuilding championships for
Speaker 3: a long time now, they think we got similar techniques
Speaker 3: or something.
Speaker 2: Well, truth of the matter is what, Yeah, that's still
Speaker 2: him going. Oh.
Speaker 4: Truth of the matter is Hogan uses his strength for evil. Well,
Speaker 4: I just use my strength for good. Just look at
Speaker 4: the way we wrestle. All it does say it. It
Speaker 4: says it.
Speaker 3: All Holgan can do is break the rules. He only
Speaker 3: knows how to cheat, nothing more than that. He's If
Speaker 3: he's so good, then how come he's got a cheat.
Speaker 3: If he's so strong, how come he got a cheat?
Speaker 3: It does say how come he got it? In that
Speaker 3: second one. If he's so talented, then how come he
Speaker 3: got a cheat?
Speaker 2: Well that, let's raises an age old question the article.
Speaker 3: Which is nagged professional wrestling from the beginning of time,
Speaker 3: and Hogan has a ready self serving answer. I'll cheat
Speaker 3: at a bit. I don't have to cheat, not when
Speaker 3: I'm wrestling punk like Atlas. When you see what you
Speaker 3: see the ring is me having a stupe to his
Speaker 3: level of wrestling. You know, there's an old saying in
Speaker 3: wrestling that you always rise to the level of your competition.
Speaker 3: You can be the single greatest wrestler over lived, which
Speaker 3: is me. And if you have to wrestle a bum
Speaker 3: like Atlas who can barely stretch out his arms because
Speaker 3: he's so overdeveloped that I ain't gonna look quite as
Speaker 3: good as I might. That's only because I'm wrestling a bum.
Speaker 3: It will give me some real competition, which they're probably
Speaker 3: ain't this WWE, and you'll see the real hun. I
Speaker 3: don't see anyone cable rising up to my level, Hogan continued. Yet,
Speaker 3: the critical difference and the fuel for their feud rests
Speaker 3: and their different approaches to building their bodies. Hogan builds
Speaker 3: his superb physique through sticking a needle in his bum.
Speaker 3: They gave up the ghost earlier that I thought through
Speaker 3: more floor exercise is like push ups and lifting heavier weights,
Speaker 3: while Atlas pumps lighter weights in greater repetition to gain
Speaker 3: definition and his muscles.
Speaker 2: I just want to just comment on this, you know,
Speaker 2: I think what you really should talk about is is
Speaker 2: the fact that you know, Atlas he lives heavier weights.
Speaker 2: You know, you know he lighter weights with a greater repetition.
Speaker 2: The definition he's a defining athlete or is you know
Speaker 2: Holgan is a he's a SUPERB? Did he call Tony
Speaker 2: Alice a defining athlete? I wish you meant, you know,
Speaker 2: definition from a you know, physique standpoint defining athlete makes
Speaker 2: him sound.
Speaker 1: He was about to call Cogan superb physician.
Speaker 2: That would be George the Horian. Okay, haym this Gary
Speaker 2: Michael Capeta call the hand well the best thing he
Speaker 2: said in that whole.
Speaker 3: Thing honey baked Tan. He had at least four before
Speaker 3: each appearance on TV.
Speaker 2: I love this. Wait till you hear what Tony says.
Speaker 2: Totally goes down this road of the difference in workout
Speaker 2: regimen between the two.
Speaker 3: Hog and don't know the first thing about exercise and
Speaker 3: thundered at list the things they can do doing a
Speaker 3: bush bush ups and that gives him strength. Well, my
Speaker 3: strength is more useful in the ring and his strength,
Speaker 3: don't you know, don't take don't take much to keep
Speaker 3: pumping those lightweights. Naturally, it don't because Tony Atlas doesn't.
Speaker 2: Perhaps this is all the same category events saying on
Speaker 2: television when Holt came back from Japan that his weight
Speaker 2: is just distributed differently.
Speaker 3: I'm not you know, you know, if you were able
Speaker 3: to massage yourself in a different, different fashions that can
Speaker 3: actually massage musculature, you know, down to different uh you know,
Speaker 3: uh part in your body and you can you can
Speaker 3: you know, uh uh kind of develop different parameters in
Speaker 3: that regard and provide you know, a distribution method that
Speaker 3: enhances and also creates body differentials, a distribution method. Indeed,
Speaker 3: if only Sean O'shey was able to prove it, perhaps
Speaker 3: the only method to settling this violent feud is in
Speaker 3: the ring. Only there can the dissimilar styles and common
Speaker 3: contempt be settled. One match between the two is history.
Speaker 3: Both men eagerly await future battles. We eagerly await the sage,
Speaker 3: wisdom and insight and recollection of mister USA. Tony Atlas
Speaker 3: here on this Independence Day twenty twenty six, I want
Speaker 3: to thank you so much for being with us through
Speaker 3: this all American ride. It is an an American story,
Speaker 3: after all. The complete Hulk Hogan presenting now our interview
Speaker 3: with Tony Atlas as we say goodbye to Hulk Hogan's
Speaker 3: first stint in New York.
Speaker 1: Hi, Tony, Okay, well, I would be talking to you.
Speaker 1: I'll be talking to you. I'll be working out at
Speaker 1: the same time. Fits in my work. That's all right.
Speaker 2: This is Tony Atlist, ladies and gentlemen. And if we're
Speaker 2: going to talk about Hulk Hogan's first run in WWF,
Speaker 2: we've got to talk about the last few he had,
Speaker 2: and really this July fourth weekend, it's a pleasure to
Speaker 2: welcome mister Usa himself. He's in the gym, folks, so
Speaker 2: he's going to be getting some reps in while he
Speaker 2: talks to us. But we're really glad to get some
Speaker 2: of his time. Tony Atlas, thanks for.
Speaker 1: Joining us, Yes, sir, good being with you.
Speaker 2: All right, So we know that you first came across
Speaker 2: Hulk in I think seventy nine in Georgia. What was
Speaker 2: the first interaction you had with him?
Speaker 1: Well, it's strange. I just won the Georgia title from
Speaker 1: Dennis Condric and that's him a lot of all the
Speaker 1: big this senior he wanted all big wrestlers, so so
Speaker 1: he ended up all the big guy that was going
Speaker 1: in New York and burned Don You and all them places.
Speaker 1: So I was the biggest guy in Georgia at that time,
Speaker 1: believe it or not, I was two hundred and sixty
Speaker 1: eight pounds. But all the bigness wrestler in the old days,
Speaker 1: the heel is always bigger than the baby face. That's
Speaker 1: how they wanted you know the heel because nobody likes
Speaker 1: you a big guy up on a little guy. So
Speaker 1: it worked perfect for old school wrestling. Well, anyway, it
Speaker 1: was arrested by name of Thommy Wildfire Rich and Tommy
Speaker 1: went to only Anason from one part of the Minnesota
Speaker 1: wrecking crew. There was no on Amazon. Then it was
Speaker 1: only and Jane Anderson. They were they would have ridden
Speaker 1: to Anderson first, it was laws Anason, and then Jeane
Speaker 1: only came along later. But anyway, uh, Tommy Rich went
Speaker 1: to older said, holy d you know, Tony don't have
Speaker 1: nobody big enough to work with him. Why don't you
Speaker 1: use that big guy. You know, he's all muscled up.
Speaker 1: It's all a bad work up. And they were saying that,
Speaker 1: I mean, y'all work a program. We're trying to work
Speaker 1: with the big guy on AMAS. I say that guy
Speaker 1: would never draw a damn in this business.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And they didn't do the program. And then I didn't
Speaker 1: see Cogland animal and that I went to New y'all
Speaker 1: that's wild and right, and even though he was big
Speaker 1: and powerful looking, everybody would beat him. I beat him
Speaker 1: every time. I got him in the right every time.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll talk about that for sure. I mean what
Speaker 2: I saw watching some of the old Georgia tapes is
Speaker 2: there's a confrontation between you and Sterling Golden in the studios.
Speaker 2: Stan Hansen is talking with Gordon Soley, and then Tommy
Speaker 2: Rich shows up and Hulk is just getting out of
Speaker 2: the ring having just squashed somebody with the bear hug,
Speaker 2: and you guys are face to face at ringside in
Speaker 2: the Georgia TV studio screaming at each other. Sounded it
Speaker 2: looked to me like they were trying to set up
Speaker 2: a program there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but did know we never really work a lot
Speaker 1: in Georgia. I mean I probably just beat him. I
Speaker 1: just buil him up for me to beat him.
Speaker 2: Sure, was there a situation there, Tony where that they
Speaker 2: started the program and then decided against it. And that's
Speaker 2: why we see an angle the.
Speaker 1: Problem, you know, to see the thing about me, I
Speaker 1: was not really part of the office. So they were
Speaker 1: a promoter that they had a thing that they would
Speaker 1: do with the wrestler. Let's say I want to make
Speaker 1: you champion. Well, before I put the belt on you,
Speaker 1: the first thing I would do is, uh, have somebody
Speaker 1: have somebody to beat have you to lose to somebody
Speaker 1: that everybody beat. Yes, uh, and then I would set
Speaker 1: back and look at your face because putting it in
Speaker 1: the older day, putting the tighter on the person was
Speaker 1: one thing. Trying to get it off was another. Because
Speaker 1: the wrestlers had a lot of control. The only thing
Speaker 1: in the promotion, the under the promotion we'd do was
Speaker 1: he was in charge of promote. But once you got
Speaker 1: it to the ring, there was no way on God
Speaker 1: Green Earth that uh uh yeah, wait, let me do
Speaker 1: a seton I'm yeah, I'm I'm trying to do an interview.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, hold on one sure?
Speaker 2: Go ahead?
Speaker 1: Yeah, hold on?
Speaker 2: Sure we're being asked to hold on or if we're live,
Speaker 2: pal one offul kind? I thought I thought we pulled
Speaker 2: one off when Larry watched the Bruno match with this this.
Speaker 1: Is a.
Speaker 2: This is you hear me, Tony?
Speaker 1: Sure? Can I do a set? Somebody want to try
Speaker 1: to take keep talking. You can't let it out on
Speaker 1: the machine.
Speaker 2: You cannot let anybody take your machine. I understand that
Speaker 2: what I.
Speaker 1: Do, I do my interview. Go ahead, go ahead and
Speaker 1: use that, go ahead, use I do it. After I
Speaker 1: sent in my interview that's all. It comes back to it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Tony.
Speaker 1: I was listening to Uh anyway, make a long story short.
Speaker 1: See he was a bad guy there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He was managed by Classic Freddy bless it and and
Speaker 1: and I know I'm skipping around, but they called the
Speaker 1: office and they wanted a picture of a wrestler over
Speaker 1: three hundred pounds, over six feet tall. So the son
Speaker 1: and pictures a big John stud Andrea to day the
Speaker 1: Ronner montsou Well come care for the audition. Nobody showed up,
Speaker 1: but hold him you're talking about that mon Sue was
Speaker 1: the promoter. He was a promoter of New Jersey, so
Speaker 1: he didn't need the money. Of course, Andre at that end,
Speaker 1: at that time was making all four or five hundred
Speaker 1: grand a year, had a big mansion out in North Carolina.
Speaker 1: So the traveling back and fall to Japan and you're
Speaker 1: just making crazy money. So Andre didn't need the money.
Speaker 1: Big John Stubb was being pushed at that time, uh
Speaker 1: and making good money, Hogan, but was pretty much was
Speaker 1: what we call a jobber, okay, pretty much. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: was not a job for everybody, just for the top guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Andre was staring him around quite a bit. In nineteen eight,
Speaker 5: exactly exactly. He was scared of deough of Andre. He
Speaker 5: was scared of death of Andre. And anyway, Hoga went
Speaker 5: made a movie. Yes, people forgot. He wasn't with ence
Speaker 5: when he made that movie. He was with burn Gunya
Speaker 5: out in Minneapolis.
Speaker 1: And when it came out right, when he went to
Speaker 1: the movie, he was always went him. This got rought
Speaker 1: of him, this division using you never did number, They
Speaker 1: didn't number for one after the movie, Yeah, you're with it.
Speaker 2: Do you remember do you remember hearing that that Vince
Speaker 2: Senior told Hulk he can't do the movie? Do you
Speaker 2: remember any of that?
Speaker 1: Well, that fabably did, but that they told that that
Speaker 1: was that that fabably true because they told all of us,
Speaker 1: do that give you a quick store or how the
Speaker 1: business work? They were so afraid of losing talent because
Speaker 1: what happened in the past. We got a ed Earl Maynor, yeah,
Speaker 1: way back right, and then he got into the movie
Speaker 1: and stuff, and then then then and other stuff, and
Speaker 1: he didn't ration no more. Then it was that called
Speaker 1: woodish stroll. Yeah, we know what he strode wotrow. But
Speaker 1: he wasn't after too. He got in the movie, never
Speaker 1: came back then you had uh his name called the oriented.
Speaker 2: That oh from ah from uh James Bond movie. It's
Speaker 2: you got in the movie.
Speaker 1: They never seen him again because they found out that
Speaker 1: they could make the same. But it's not more. Plus
Speaker 1: with the movie, you had a guaranteed right. So every
Speaker 1: time they show that movies, you get a check in
Speaker 1: the water check and rest you get. There's no there
Speaker 1: was no insa on. A wrestler had to be more
Speaker 1: than just ar wrestler. You have to be a businessman.
Speaker 1: Uh so wrestler what we called who was all to
Speaker 1: call it steff? Uh employed? So you pay, you paid
Speaker 1: your own TAXI, You pay your own See what the
Speaker 1: wrestled the dress put you on. Let's say one hundred
Speaker 1: thousand dollars a year. You get one hundred thousand dollars
Speaker 1: a year flat, but nothing is taken out of that check.
Speaker 1: So you have to pay your state and federal income
Speaker 1: tax out of that check. Yes, you got to pay
Speaker 1: your own taxic. If you want a helfa show, you
Speaker 1: got to pay your own helfa shows out of that chick. Yes,
Speaker 1: you are right for yourself employed. You're not the only
Speaker 1: people that is employee. Are people that work in the office.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's that's uh, that's the way it's been.
Speaker 2: And I wanted to if I could remind it back
Speaker 2: to the Georgia days because I was listening to Ron Fuller.
Speaker 2: Ron Fuller had a podcast. He was talking about how
Speaker 2: he was the first guy to push Terry and he
Speaker 2: was in early seventy nine, creating him as Terry the
Speaker 2: Hulpe Boulder. And then at a certain point Terry went
Speaker 2: to Memphis. And Ron said, when Terry went to Memphis,
Speaker 2: he was in need of some big, muscled up babyface
Speaker 2: because Hulk was already a babyface. And he said that
Speaker 2: he brought you in to Southeastern his territory down there, Pensacola,
Speaker 2: that area, because Hogan had left for Memphis.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that, Well, probably not, not really, but
Speaker 1: I know at that time because there was a lot
Speaker 1: of guys that we was in one territory, but we
Speaker 1: was all over because we were suffer special. Just get
Speaker 1: an example like Dustin Rose. He always was based out
Speaker 1: of Florida, but he ras anywhere because of his popularity
Speaker 1: from the magazine. Yes where at that time, you know,
Speaker 1: there was only two wrestlers in the world that had
Speaker 1: that type of physique and that was me and superstar
Speaker 1: Billy Graham, right. You know, we was known for being
Speaker 1: the two musclemans of that earl. So so even though
Speaker 1: I was in Georgia, I went a lot to reserve
Speaker 1: Rasa there. I went to Texas for the von Erks,
Speaker 1: I went to Puerto Rico. I'm in Japan, and you know,
Speaker 1: because people wanted to see this physique that I had.
Speaker 1: You know, I was a United States Barnygullon champion. They
Speaker 1: never had that in rest in a full And that's
Speaker 1: where the term mister USA compan is not from which
Speaker 1: I am very patriartic, But the name didn't start because
Speaker 1: of my patroness through the country. He started because the
Speaker 1: Barnagullon title mister in USA. Once I won that, that's
Speaker 1: what they promoted. Like Peter, they promoted him his Olympic
Speaker 1: our stuff because seeing the old day, our job was
Speaker 1: to make the people believe and if they could get
Speaker 1: something legitimate, they would push the hell out of it. Yes,
Speaker 1: because they're legitimate. This guy really is. Because we had
Speaker 1: a lot of guys that pretended to be something that
Speaker 1: they wasn't. Like Alvin Coloff was French Canadian.
Speaker 2: That's like a really good one. So you know, obviously
Speaker 2: Terry was big, But what was the difference between Terry's
Speaker 2: regiment and your regiment? Because you were really cut in
Speaker 2: seventy nine eighty and he wasn't.
Speaker 1: HLBM had what very few people had dust Road had.
Speaker 1: I would say the best pressure to prepare him to
Speaker 1: was Dusty Road. Here's the reason why Huff Holgum is
Speaker 1: a remake, a remade a Superstar Bill of Glare.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: A lot of people have tried to the three people
Speaker 1: have took that women. You see super soft Bill a
Speaker 1: bear with a butt. The people know. I saw much
Speaker 1: like that in wrestling in New York. Nuh And the
Speaker 1: bigger mistake Vince Senior made that he realized that later
Speaker 1: were taking that belt off of Superstar. So every safe
Speaker 1: they took the belt off the Superlow, they would look
Speaker 1: for somebody to repate with the tribe with Jesse. Jesse
Speaker 1: didn't pull it off. But I remember when I first
Speaker 1: got so Hogan now I'm a good guy. He's a
Speaker 1: bad guy. Every time I wrested. If you could listen
Speaker 1: to the audience, half of the audience were cheering for Hogan.
Speaker 1: Asked caring for me. Everybody he got in the ring,
Speaker 1: the same thing happened. They were promoters, didn't use it
Speaker 1: because people he could not he couldn't get over totally
Speaker 1: as a heel, and he wanted to be a heel
Speaker 1: for the whole time. He was a babyface for the
Speaker 1: moment he came to that door. Why do you think
Speaker 1: that is he had? It was just something Well, this
Speaker 1: is the reason why in New York they have one
Speaker 1: Colcasian main eventor.
Speaker 2: Boy Backland yea at the time about Backland, Yeah.
Speaker 1: That was the only person that was on top that
Speaker 1: was not a minority. See, Vin Senior had the idea
Speaker 1: that he wanted somebody to represent all the nationalities in
Speaker 1: New York. So that way he had to have Japanese,
Speaker 1: they have to have Puerto Ricans, have to have Black,
Speaker 1: have to have Polish, and all these people were you know,
Speaker 1: non you know like Alex Husky, he was Cocasian, but
Speaker 1: he went at Polish power. Yeah, so he represented Poland,
Speaker 1: not the USA. So Caucasian at that time made up
Speaker 1: eighty two percent of the population and the rest that
Speaker 1: they had no reputation to represent. And on top of that,
Speaker 1: the three major sports. The three major sports in America
Speaker 1: at that time was dominated minorities, sure, yipball, basketball and baseball,
Speaker 1: and they were the three major sports. With wrestling. They
Speaker 1: saw that in wrestling and w c W only you
Speaker 1: very few minority but New York. You know, he named
Speaker 1: all the wrestler that was around me. If you noticed them,
Speaker 1: all minority, Jimmy Schluckers, all these guys, and so what
Speaker 1: Jehovah there would change the scenario once they put Hogan
Speaker 1: on top, hence reversed it. And then all your top
Speaker 1: guys except for junk Yard Dog and Pdo Santana, was
Speaker 1: all occasion. It's not a racier FAO's of business than so.
Speaker 2: You're saying that's why Hulk got cheered even when he
Speaker 2: was a heel against you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they had nobody to cheer for in New
Speaker 1: York for years. Say you know, even Bruno Simonino, he
Speaker 1: was super far of the last white guy they could
Speaker 1: cheer for. Think about it. Yeah, Bruno was up, Bruno
Speaker 1: was Italian. It's a cion on top.
Speaker 2: Of it, Tony, what was the difference between Hulk's workout
Speaker 2: regimen and yours?
Speaker 1: You had?
Speaker 2: You know, you were so sculpted. He was huge, but
Speaker 2: he wasn't sculpted.
Speaker 1: What was the difference, Well, Hobum didn't compete, So if
Speaker 1: you don't compete, uh yeah, right right. Hobo was a restaurant,
Speaker 1: you know, he never thought about being a bottlegood. So
Speaker 1: he went in for lotw reps and heavy weight, and
Speaker 1: I would do both. I would do the heavyweight, but
Speaker 1: I also would do the reps. And then my diet
Speaker 1: or to is how you eat, you know, like like
Speaker 1: like like oga, we eat fried chickens. I eat baked chickens.
Speaker 2: Right yeah.
Speaker 1: He would eat mac and cheese and I eat a solid.
Speaker 1: He eat the cherry pie and I eat the cherry.
Speaker 1: The cherry would not eat the cherry pie. Right. I
Speaker 1: never eat bread when I was competing. Bread was out
Speaker 1: of it. So mainly I ate meat and uh, veggies
Speaker 1: and fruit nothing else. And Hogan still enjoyed some of
Speaker 1: that Southern cooking. It sounds like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: We had a lot of greens. You know, I call
Speaker 1: it greens tale, you know, in a veggie. You know.
Speaker 1: I I wouldn't eat potatoes because that to me was
Speaker 1: a start. All I ate was just veggies, fruit and
Speaker 1: uh uh uh uh uh meat and if I got
Speaker 1: a burger, I would get them without the gun.
Speaker 2: Did you give yourself a cheat day?
Speaker 1: No? No, no, no, no guitar. Yeah yeah, we both
Speaker 1: started one cheat they didn't one that you see what
Speaker 1: I'm saying. Got here. Yeah, when your bottle bill, you
Speaker 1: got to you got to be dedicated to it. Uh
Speaker 1: one hundred shake, Tony.
Speaker 2: I'm looking through some of the results from Georgia and
Speaker 2: I see a couple of matches you had, uh that
Speaker 2: were tag matches. It was you and Ray Candy versus
Speaker 2: Austin Idel and Sterling Golden. Do you remember any of those? Wow?
Speaker 1: I remember that wall.
Speaker 5: Before we were all snida, he was uh Rick McCall,
Speaker 5: Mike McCord, Mike McCord yep.
Speaker 1: Mich McCall. Yeah, yeah, Mike Mike McCall is at that
Speaker 1: playing guy because that he became lost all that white
Speaker 1: that when he became Paul Island. Yes, yeah, Well you
Speaker 1: bring back a lot of a lot of a lot
Speaker 1: of memories. You know, it's all for me, remember a
Speaker 1: lot of stuff because you realize that what you're talking
Speaker 1: about was almost fifty years ago.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, and it's and you were so busy.
Speaker 2: It's like it's it's hard to remember one match first another.
Speaker 2: That's why I bring it up to spark the memory
Speaker 2: with the promotion job.
Speaker 1: But if they kept you busy, did they know you
Speaker 1: don't have time to do nothing else? Right? Yeah? And
Speaker 1: getting that's how they kept you in the business. Like
Speaker 1: you told me about the Cohoba not to make the movie. Well, anyway,
Speaker 1: when I became mister the USA in nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 1: Johnny I wish the name Tim Wood. Tim would he
Speaker 1: wrestled mister wrest number one. He he sagged me up
Speaker 1: for it. He went to the gym and shamed me up.
Speaker 1: And he said, Tony, have you got the office? Tell
Speaker 1: you you could go? I said, yeah. I went by
Speaker 1: George Scott, he was the booker. He said I could
Speaker 1: go to the contest. He said, you really want to
Speaker 1: go to the content? I said yes. He said, well,
Speaker 1: don't answer your phone. I said, you shure, He said,
Speaker 1: don't answer your phone? He said he said, he said
Speaker 1: this this bus. I do not want uh wrestler to
Speaker 1: get involved with other sluff Becausey're afraid of losing them.
Speaker 1: So all day the phone kept ringing and ring it
Speaker 1: and ring it, and I don't know what Tim Wood says,
Speaker 1: don't answer that phone. So I didn't off the phones.
Speaker 1: I got on the plane. I flew to New York.
Speaker 1: Uh you gotta put this in there too, my life.
Speaker 1: I almost got killed that day. The guy that the
Speaker 1: guy took pictures of me, he was he took pictures
Speaker 1: for the uh uh, the magazine, and he heard that
Speaker 1: I was gonna go to the contest, so he was
Speaker 1: gonna pick me up at the airport and drive me
Speaker 1: around pick picture of me on stage to put in
Speaker 1: the rest of magazine. His name was George palm Tana.
Speaker 1: Georgia pala Tana was his name. So anyway, he picked
Speaker 1: me up at the Laguardi Airport. We drive him uh
Speaker 1: uh to where they're going to have the show at
Speaker 1: and I saw this guy just kicking the crap out
Speaker 1: of this woman. So I started to get out the
Speaker 1: car to help the woman. George grabbed me around the waist.
Speaker 1: He traned everything in his power to hold me back.
Speaker 1: He said, told him he's her pimp. He wouldn't you.
Speaker 1: And as soon as he said that, the guy noticed
Speaker 1: me trying to get to her. He reached underneath his
Speaker 1: jacket and pulled out of his gun and probably walking
Speaker 1: towards me. Oh my goodness, jump back in the car
Speaker 1: and George took off and they were George La Paulo
Speaker 1: Thomas Jesus and I would have died that day. I
Speaker 1: would have got shot that day on my way to
Speaker 1: the mister Ussa tidle.
Speaker 2: Wow, it's one of the other, right, dead or you
Speaker 2: become mister Usa that day.
Speaker 1: I would have not that day. Even if I hadn't died,
Speaker 1: I would have went to the houspital. I wouldn't have
Speaker 1: went to that contest. I was either end up in
Speaker 1: the house bitter all the way Joab, I would not
Speaker 1: been in that car any way. I won the contest.
Speaker 1: I came back then and then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: my phone went the hell are you? Then as I
Speaker 1: went to the contact, but we were looking for you
Speaker 1: all over and everything. Get your ass down to the office.
Speaker 1: We got a bump with so for lard. Joan was
Speaker 1: going to meet me that day. To me, he would
Speaker 1: go to the off the and Rufus said, how do
Speaker 1: you do in the contest? I said, I won? He said,
Speaker 1: go back in your apartment, get your trophy. Then go
Speaker 1: get the trophy. I said, I don't want to care it.
Speaker 1: Go get your troping. You want to say, go get
Speaker 1: your trophy for the freight train dell. So I went
Speaker 1: back to my apartment and I got, uh, got my trophy.
Speaker 1: Well in a way. When I got to the office,
Speaker 1: I had my trophy and then uh, David Crockett said
Speaker 1: what that troph for? I said, first place? Think you one?
Speaker 1: I said, yeah, I won. It's all fantastic, which usual
Speaker 1: all TV.
Speaker 3: Yah.
Speaker 1: Well rufus knew why they called me. See, they didn't
Speaker 1: want me to go. They wanted me to put me
Speaker 1: on a little spots filled. They didn't need me. But
Speaker 1: they didn't want me to go to the content. So
Speaker 1: they what do we do? They tell you could do something.
Speaker 1: Then the day of the show they recall you, and
Speaker 1: and then and they have you to arrest us somewhere,
Speaker 1: and therefore they do. And then when you told me
Speaker 1: about the Holger, yeah, over the only one. They told
Speaker 1: him that with the with the uh they did her
Speaker 1: like I told not to go and make that movie
Speaker 1: of wonder Woman. He was going to do a wonder
Speaker 1: Woman if they pass it up for them and then
Speaker 1: they end up tier anyway. That's what they do, that
Speaker 1: the rassal auto tip. Yeah, but they want to keep
Speaker 1: you in the business. And once you get involved in
Speaker 1: something else, why are you gonna travel in that highway
Speaker 1: they call them bump where you're gonna make the same money,
Speaker 1: make more than a movie.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, We've seen so many do that, Tony. Can
Speaker 2: I have you go back to if you can remember
Speaker 2: anything about uh teaming with Ray Candy against Hulk and
Speaker 2: Austin Idol.
Speaker 1: Not really fine, I know, yeah, it's hard to think
Speaker 1: about uh uh that fuck. But what I do know
Speaker 1: about Hogan if you could find that, man, I bet
Speaker 1: you dollars to do nothing that half of the order
Speaker 1: is caring for Hope.
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the thing about Hope. It was something
Speaker 1: about him that people just drew to him. You know,
Speaker 1: certain people that the Dusty Road were like that Dusty
Speaker 1: was like it was there's something about Dusty even it
Speaker 1: was a big fat guy and everything else, but you
Speaker 1: know it didn't matter. Well, why don't you think Olie
Speaker 1: Anderson saw that in Hult? Because only was a wrestler
Speaker 1: and he just looked at hoban ability as a wrestler,
Speaker 1: which Hoba did not. It was not the best wrestler
Speaker 1: I see. Yeah, he was not like a terrorist frong
Speaker 1: or you know, a Harley raised. He was not going
Speaker 1: to call a rastler. So he always felt when Vince
Speaker 1: chained the business, Olga was perfect for the Hobo was
Speaker 1: perfect for entertainment business. He was not perfect for the
Speaker 1: wrestler building. He looked when he tried to rast try
Speaker 1: to picture, and another guy was like, I was thunder
Speaker 1: Boat powders of powder was a big draw, but he
Speaker 1: was not a wrestler. But you put him in a
Speaker 1: wrestling match. They did a match one time with Oli
Speaker 1: and uh Thron. The Boat a wrestler and the first
Speaker 1: person to throw a punch lose a match. Let mean
Speaker 1: thunder Boat had the rest of this whole match about
Speaker 1: throwing a punch, and many per say the thunder Boat
Speaker 1: matching was punching. It was the worst, brother, it was
Speaker 1: the worst match. Anybody saying they like but influential. Nonetheless,
Speaker 1: guys that was good entertainers like Ox Baker. He was
Speaker 1: a great entertainer, but you put him in a wrestling match,
Speaker 1: he looked horrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's about with Austin Idel. I mean you talked
Speaker 2: about about this. Yeah, hold on grand I can see
Speaker 2: him taking one, not doing one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they all hip tops, even hip tooss. Yeah, any
Speaker 1: wrestling move, name one that he does well.
Speaker 2: I would say, Tony, you struggled mightily to get him
Speaker 2: up for that gorilla press, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he didn't want to go up. That was
Speaker 1: his first slam, tell me about it. It wasn't It
Speaker 1: wasn't just his first press lamb. It was his first slam.
Speaker 2: Were slammed him. But yeah, press slammers it.
Speaker 1: Called big guys back then, three oundther pound guys. They
Speaker 1: didn't take them bumps, They didn't take them by bumps.
Speaker 2: What did he say to you about the gorilla press?
Speaker 2: Was he like saying, no, don't do it, brother, Or
Speaker 2: how'd that go?
Speaker 1: Watch his hand? He tried to grab my trunks and everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like he's trying to stop.
Speaker 1: You look at him. He tried to grab hold of something.
Speaker 1: He was scared enough. I kept saying, old still, I'm
Speaker 1: dropped him. I'm trying to give him hold still. He
Speaker 1: almost pissed on himself. He'd never been up there before.
Speaker 1: That was his first tam up there three hundred song pounds.
Speaker 1: He was thinking about now I'm going to dive in. Yeah,
Speaker 1: think about you, three hundred forty town man. You'd never
Speaker 1: been off your feet, he's never been sue fletched, he's
Speaker 1: never been back drunk. He'd never been slam until he
Speaker 1: met me. Okay, so for him this new territory for
Speaker 1: uhuse what most big guys do that you're just going
Speaker 1: to just beat you up like guerrilla Monsoon. Monson didn't
Speaker 1: take no slams or anything right Big John Stub. In fact,
Speaker 1: they had a gimmick with John Slow the first person
Speaker 1: to slam them. What was it that? Yeah, they had
Speaker 1: a slam thing for them. Guys.
Speaker 2: When you were when you were Togan Tony in those
Speaker 2: matches where you grilla pressed him, what was it like
Speaker 2: before the match in the locker room talking about what
Speaker 2: was going to happen?
Speaker 1: Did you have you were get fired?
Speaker 2: Okay? Wasn't there a story where where Vince said around
Speaker 2: you and Hulk that do whatever you want with him?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you were talking there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we has separate dressing room, right so that if
Speaker 1: you noticed the old family, we didn't dress in the
Speaker 1: same dressing room. So the rough for you was a
Speaker 1: guy that run back and forth. Yes, uh, the rough
Speaker 1: we would would tell you what what they were saying.
Speaker 1: So because the rough, we would go from dressing room
Speaker 1: to dressing room, the people really know what was up.
Speaker 1: But I couldn't walk into the hill dressing right, and
Speaker 1: we couldn't even ride together. We couldn't even say at
Speaker 1: the same hotel.
Speaker 2: I guess I should have just said, did you know
Speaker 2: going in the ring? Did Hulk know going in the
Speaker 2: ring that you were going to press slam them?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay? And was there a lot of negotiation? Was he like,
Speaker 2: I don't want to do that? Do you remember?
Speaker 1: No? No, if you go home to do that, what's that?
Speaker 2: I'm sorry you go?
Speaker 1: They were saying, you home right right? You pretty much
Speaker 1: need you had to be in a certain position, right
Speaker 1: like a Harley Race could have done that, but not
Speaker 1: a ton of Afson, not of Okhovia understood. Yep, yeah,
Speaker 1: just like in an element, and you have to you
Speaker 1: have to be in a certain uh like God to
Speaker 1: write your own check. It took a certain person. Holman
Speaker 1: was able to do that later where he could write
Speaker 1: his own check, but the first time Hopah had in
Speaker 1: decision on what he did when we went to w CW.
Speaker 1: He never had no say so on what he lived.
Speaker 1: They went to w CW, he put it in his contract.
Speaker 1: See you put it in that creative control, said that
Speaker 1: he had control over over his finishes. Yes, of the match,
Speaker 1: Tony were exchanging it.
Speaker 2: We were sharing some messages with I think Daniel Seveldi,
Speaker 2: one of the Savoldi family members, and he says, there
Speaker 2: is a story about when you were working with Hogan
Speaker 2: and Hogan was really paranoid about getting fucked in the
Speaker 2: ring and went to Angelo and basically told him not
Speaker 2: to slap three. When you guys wrestled in Philly. Do
Speaker 2: you remember that?
Speaker 1: Never just say it again?
Speaker 2: Well, I think the story is when you were wrestling
Speaker 2: Hulk Hogan in Philly in nineteen eighty one, just as
Speaker 2: he was about to leave the company, Hulk was worried
Speaker 2: about uh, basically like a fast count. And the story
Speaker 2: is that during that match he went to Angelo Sevoldi,
Speaker 2: who had Mario Sevoldi refereeing the match, and Mario did
Speaker 2: ref the match. We saw the tape and that there
Speaker 2: was basically a promise that Mario wouldn't count hulked down
Speaker 2: in that match when you rolled him up. And if
Speaker 2: you watch Mario, he kind of does have a weird count.
Speaker 2: He hits the mat twice and then he like he
Speaker 2: hesitates to hit it a third time, and then he does.
Speaker 2: Do you remember any of that?
Speaker 1: Well, you see, that's what I'm saying. So that went
Speaker 1: off in the heels. That's your room, yes, true, Ah,
Speaker 1: so what I went. I knew nothing about it. It
Speaker 1: see that. But see Holger was not going to kick
Speaker 1: out on me anyway. Because there's something else that we
Speaker 1: could do back in over the day. Yeah, brother, that
Speaker 1: we could do them. We can't do it now, but
Speaker 1: buy then if he has screwed me in the ring,
Speaker 1: I would have stretched him. Oh really, I was a shooter,
Speaker 1: m I was an amateur wrestler and I boxed in
Speaker 1: the Golden Glove before I got into wrestling. So what
Speaker 1: these old channels would do in the old days, they
Speaker 1: would kick the crap all of you if you screwed
Speaker 1: around with them? Did they promoted? They try to get
Speaker 1: sweep with me in the rain, but he's putting me over.
Speaker 1: I knew I could beat him up if I wanted
Speaker 1: to do you have to sound I'm.
Speaker 2: Saying absolutely no.
Speaker 1: I understand thought Ober knew that if he screwed around
Speaker 1: with me out there, he won't have problem.
Speaker 3: When you knew that, when after you after you rolled
Speaker 3: him up with the you know he did a pin
Speaker 3: with a roll up, and even say after he came
Speaker 3: back to w w F after you know, after he
Speaker 3: went away and a way into the movie whatever, did
Speaker 3: you notice any kind of increase in paranoia and nervousness
Speaker 3: by him?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 1: Something that that you follow another motor. Yeah, I come
Speaker 1: out of the Auer trust and that hold them that beat,
Speaker 1: the hold of that whole will never beat.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's true. It's concerning did did he got back?
Speaker 1: Did you ever try to win back?
Speaker 2: Did you ever try to get that win back? Like
Speaker 2: even later on, did you? No, he didn't want to.
Speaker 1: Didn't want to see. Vin Senior told me something and
Speaker 1: over everybody knew that Tony, if you could lift them up,
Speaker 1: you could pin them. That was my finish and the
Speaker 1: old day we respect each other finished. Hogan knew I
Speaker 1: was going to press hell. I was looked to be
Speaker 1: in WrestleMania. Uh, white armist. I was coming out the
Speaker 1: hotel the Ramada in the Fall and ninth and eighth
Speaker 1: Street Armist Polo was waiting at the door with him
Speaker 1: with a twenty five hundred dollars check. He's a kid
Speaker 1: the bar want you to take the night off this
Speaker 1: wrasser Mamium one. Now I got to raft a Bunday.
Speaker 1: They gave me the check. He said, look, if you
Speaker 1: signed the back of the check, I give you. Catch
Speaker 1: you and your lady. I was dating this girl man
Speaker 1: from Total Week because she was a witness in the
Speaker 1: Jimmy Slipper murder. But any way, me and her will
Speaker 1: go out. I'm gonna have a good time because I
Speaker 1: was gonna rash a Bunday. They called as d Jones
Speaker 1: and asked he to come down to take my place
Speaker 1: at the keen call on Bunday because Bundy knew I
Speaker 1: was gonna press him because I did it on TV
Speaker 1: when he was wresting the Press. They knew I was
Speaker 1: gonna press him. If I don't slam you, I will
Speaker 1: set you on the rope like I did Paul Umboff
Speaker 1: and patch you on the head. That's how I kept
Speaker 1: myself over. So guys knew. They said, Tony get his
Speaker 1: hand on you you're going up in the air. You're
Speaker 1: gonna You're gonna go up. You couldn't something I had
Speaker 1: a four hundred I had a six hundred and fifty
Speaker 1: pound bench and a four hundred and twenty five pound
Speaker 1: cleaning jerk. I used to do eight to ten reps
Speaker 1: with three fifteen behind see him behind the neck presses, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so that's why I hold them. The other got back
Speaker 1: in the ring media not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a well, you make a great point that,
Speaker 2: you know, Hulk, you know, never got.
Speaker 1: Back and whop everybody. He came back and whooped everybody but.
Speaker 2: Me, And it's a great point that he got those
Speaker 2: wins back. Another thing no one else ever did was
Speaker 2: roll him up from behind, although he was I'm sure
Speaker 2: concerned about that, but like you rolled him up from behind.
Speaker 1: Well, see wrestlers knew that because see the wrestler had
Speaker 1: more control than than they do now. So the promoter
Speaker 1: could tell me what they want to tell me, the
Speaker 1: one like a prooter, like it's a master. Why and
Speaker 1: Paul on off? They told me they said totally wanted
Speaker 1: to put Paul over when I had heath with Paul
Speaker 1: for he bit my ears. You know. So I liked him,
Speaker 1: but not that much. So I said, well, I don't
Speaker 1: do what I want with him to run. I picked
Speaker 1: him up, put them on on the rope and made
Speaker 1: him look sullid. I did the same thing BRANDED said,
Speaker 1: made him look sully. So the old time I make
Speaker 1: her look sully, I'm the newtra all them guy like
Speaker 1: and hold them. He knew about them shooters and how
Speaker 1: and how they would hurt you. So they tried to
Speaker 1: break his leg when he was in Florida, this Japanese
Speaker 1: trainer Shootie or what he was Shootie. Yeah. Yeah, he
Speaker 1: wasn't very big. Weren't watch five ft eight maybe two hundred.
Speaker 1: It wasn't hakushi right now, no, something like that. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he would wanted the trainers to head on him. And
Speaker 1: then what were the shooting like the Boston Sushi and
Speaker 1: all these Yeah, yeah, he didn't want to beat the
Speaker 1: hell out of the hold gun. Yeah, so Hoba knew
Speaker 1: that these God, if we all knew how to shoot.
Speaker 2: I want to play you a clip, Tony.
Speaker 1: We have it here.
Speaker 2: I think you'll be able to hear it on your phone.
Speaker 2: This is one of the promos that Hulk cut in
Speaker 2: New York before you wrestled him in nineteen eighty one,
Speaker 2: he cut a bunch of promos. You might you might
Speaker 2: recognize this. It's just twenty seconds, but I want to
Speaker 2: get your reaction to it.
Speaker 1: Just here we go. You will never ever ever pin
Speaker 1: me or be me in the center of the ring.
Speaker 1: There are a few things you might be better to
Speaker 1: be at. One on the shine shoes, maybe chusing spears,
Speaker 1: and maybe eating watermelon. Boy, you ain't nothing about a
Speaker 1: suit up spider monkey. And when you get in that
Speaker 1: room with me, I'm gonna show you the rooms the
Speaker 1: USA and the only undefeated russeller west in the world. Today,
Speaker 1: that's tough to listen to today. I remember that interview.
Speaker 2: Yeah you can hear it, Tony.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he called me a spodermunker.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about all that today? It really doesn't sound good.
Speaker 2: What about that when you were were you okay with that?
Speaker 1: Well? Yeah, because you see, you've got to go with
Speaker 1: the time.
Speaker 6: You got to go with your pamp. Everybody had names
Speaker 6: for everybody back then. Everybody had named for But look
Speaker 6: look at the Jui batter called or tell your people gettings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a time. You know, you have to
Speaker 1: make rationing look real, mh. And during the time that
Speaker 1: what they call black people monkeys, and they called the
Speaker 1: Jewish people. They had names for Jewish people that they
Speaker 1: called a canyon WAPs and guineas. And I mean it
Speaker 1: was all power of the of the of the environment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was, he was.
Speaker 1: He was going along with the tam the of the
Speaker 1: of the pirit of pan and a lot of guys
Speaker 1: did that. You know, it was you know, uh, it
Speaker 1: changed when a little when they got to Cava. I
Speaker 1: remember Black Josh Mouthergun did an interview one time about
Speaker 1: about lynching me and uh, you want father, you're gonna
Speaker 1: try father and length meet and our Pat Connough trick
Speaker 1: or said, that's a little bit kee for you. You
Speaker 1: can't go that far. You got to do another one.
Speaker 1: He said, what part you want to get? What he said?
Speaker 1: The lynching part?
Speaker 2: All right, So that's that's good, that's good to get
Speaker 2: your reaction to that at the time. So you didn't,
Speaker 2: you didn't, you didn't have any objection to that.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, that was good. Heat heat. I
Speaker 1: think the black people out there, all the black the
Speaker 1: bill was packed. So the more outrageous you were the
Speaker 1: butt of the business was back in the day. That's
Speaker 1: why Ronnie Piper was so popular later because he was outrageous,
Speaker 1: and why Stone Cold Steve Awsome so popular. He was
Speaker 1: so outraging, you see, the more out of work fare,
Speaker 1: the outrageous and the way he talked and act and
Speaker 1: bland and all this and that stuff. So that's him.
Speaker 1: That was a big draw in the in the in
Speaker 1: the in the industry. See, name didn't people is not
Speaker 1: as sensitive. There was a different type of people and
Speaker 1: the wheels all ranged. Sticks and stone would break our bones,
Speaker 1: but names would never hurt. So so if somebody call
Speaker 1: your name and you got offended. He was considered as
Speaker 1: a punk.
Speaker 2: A punk to be offended by a word.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well wait, yeah punk. It had under with homosexual.
Speaker 1: It was you stalk, you can't take it. They would
Speaker 1: like suck it up.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think as Tony you know, all those
Speaker 2: years later, Hulk had that thing where he said the
Speaker 2: N word on tape, and I think people go back
Speaker 2: and watch this stuff from the early eighties, and you
Speaker 2: know what I mean, They're like, oh see he always
Speaker 2: was comfortable talking like that.
Speaker 1: No, but he came up in that environment. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: was too there to stop me from saying stuff like that.
Speaker 1: But the problem I can't get in trouble for it
Speaker 1: because because of my color, you see political correctness. And
Speaker 1: you can put this in the paper if I make
Speaker 1: sure you put this in the paper. What help bogan?
Speaker 1: Is political corrected before wife's only? Prove me wrong? Interesting
Speaker 1: for littica correctly before wife's only. How can a black
Speaker 1: guy use the N word and become a millionaire and
Speaker 1: hold her use it and and lose lose everything? Is
Speaker 1: that possible? The word, the meaning of the world don't
Speaker 1: change because the color of the person said it is.
Speaker 1: They mean what it means. They don't change.
Speaker 2: Right now we're living through it. But it's wild to
Speaker 2: see these promos at their time.
Speaker 1: Hey, nigga mean nigga, fag mean fag, sissy mean sissy?
Speaker 1: Don't boy? Who said right right?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: So whur coup is so different with cold gun because
Speaker 1: he's what's he's uh, well, yeah, he's Caucasian. He is
Speaker 1: a part Panamanian. Yet the only way you can get
Speaker 1: in trouble for what you say you have to be Caucasian.
Speaker 1: If you're black, you're saying what you want to say.
Speaker 1: Nobody gonna say nothing about it.
Speaker 2: Fascinating.
Speaker 1: So that was your reaction to the getting raps. So
Speaker 1: they use it all through the song You walk through
Speaker 1: the Black neighborhood. They called each other the name then
Speaker 1: also they as soon as the white guy said also,
Speaker 1: they're in trouble. To me, that's the same thing that
Speaker 1: they did back in the sixty A white guy could
Speaker 1: say what he want to say, but a black guy couldn't.
Speaker 1: Same thing, same thing, reverse discrimination, political correct wife.
Speaker 2: You have it from Tony at Less himself and then
Speaker 2: himself weighing in because that clip of him saying that
Speaker 2: in like watermelon and all that stuff that came up
Speaker 2: again recently on social media. People found it and were
Speaker 2: recirculating it, and I always wondered what you thought about it.
Speaker 1: Brother, let me change something. He didn't lie. Excuse me,
Speaker 1: he didn't lie. Okay, he didn't lie about none of that.
Speaker 1: If we were felling the truth. Brother, I'm from Virginia,
Speaker 1: and most Virginia black, all white. I don't care who
Speaker 1: you are. See, we couldn't afford all them sweets like
Speaker 1: they do now. Sure, most of farm for most blacks
Speaker 1: were sharecropper. They work on a farm, especially down South. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so we were pranking in watermela and that was our dessert.
Speaker 2: Sure, water melon's delicious.
Speaker 1: Watermelo. Yeah, people people live on a black little fried
Speaker 1: kicking was the reason they loved for I think it
Speaker 1: was the only time during the week where they got meat.
Speaker 2: I see some they're done up. See I love it
Speaker 2: because it's delicious. But yeah, I didn't realize.
Speaker 1: You see, you see people didn't eat like they do
Speaker 1: their day back in the soil. You understand. My mother,
Speaker 1: On Monday we cooked a pot of beans. Guess what
Speaker 1: you have for the next three days? Beans bean? Yeah,
Speaker 1: America chop stewart like America chopped short. How long you
Speaker 1: say you can eat that America chop shot. Well, it's
Speaker 1: gone days and days they had left over. So on
Speaker 1: Sunday they had a big sun. That done after everybody
Speaker 1: back in the older days they went to church on Sunday.
Speaker 1: After church, they had a big sun. They've done up
Speaker 1: after the big sun had done it. You have fried chicken,
Speaker 1: mashed potatoes, green beans, and peach cobbery. You're making me
Speaker 1: hungry here, pal well, definitely my money just saying here,
Speaker 1: but that, but that would part of our tradition. And
Speaker 1: instead up until the seventies and eighty, thing changed. And
Speaker 1: then people started working different job, different employment, and and
Speaker 1: and and and the change and people started eating meat
Speaker 1: every day or whatever they want. They say that just
Speaker 1: having chicken on. So see, there was no minimum raigs
Speaker 1: back then. So what happened my mom? She would work
Speaker 1: her job. Minimum rage at that time were probably about
Speaker 1: a buck sixty because you got to and there was
Speaker 1: no role verse in wade, which means the average parents.
Speaker 1: We had. The smallest family in my neighborhood was nine kids.
Speaker 2: That's what you mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, There was no role vers in wage, so
Speaker 1: we had second I mean my dad took to say
Speaker 1: time we look, my mom got pregnant, got pregnant.
Speaker 2: At different time.
Speaker 1: Indeed, but he had to you had to have a
Speaker 1: recommens he could stop having favors. He's a lapsed fan
Speaker 1: wrestling podcast with Jack and and JP Soro. It's a
Speaker 1: lapsed fan wrestling podcast.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question about Hulk that I
Speaker 2: didn't ask before? Did you ever have a disagreement with him?
Speaker 2: Or did you guys always get along?
Speaker 1: I love him like a brother. Is that right? He
Speaker 1: was the best, most generous to do anything for anybody
Speaker 1: person in my life. Anything Holman said on the interview,
Speaker 1: A lot of them. Woman. He was greening back then,
Speaker 1: so the old timer would tell him how to do
Speaker 1: an interview. So whatever Holman said about the brown monkey
Speaker 1: and stuff, some promoter told me to do that. They
Speaker 1: even tried that with me later on in my career.
Speaker 1: It didn't work because the environment chad. They had me
Speaker 1: the wrong Summers. You could look it up. In fact,
Speaker 1: we're at ninety two ninety three when I was a
Speaker 1: heel in w c W and I'm on the wrestled
Speaker 1: round so many the first black head of the first
Speaker 1: black champion. They had me to call him a porch monkey.
Speaker 1: Told me this, Yeah told you. You know you you
Speaker 1: could say that and get just what it told me.
Speaker 1: You can say it and get away with it. We came,
Speaker 1: I see you could say that, but we can't. They
Speaker 1: want to be aldle to heat between me and Ron Summer. Well, anyway,
Speaker 1: I went out there call him a porch monkey, and
Speaker 1: and and uh and then I said uh uh uh,
Speaker 1: I said, Ron, uh, you living proof that Indians had
Speaker 1: sex with buffalo. She said, wow, they really gave you
Speaker 1: the leash kest Now know about a month later we'll
Speaker 1: watch it. Well, we're getting all these brothers from the
Speaker 1: n W A, CPS and all the black groups, and
Speaker 1: they wanted me off the TV. That's my w c
Speaker 1: W and letting go.
Speaker 2: What what was something that Holp did that was generous
Speaker 2: that you remember.
Speaker 1: Hoger? Well, if a person helped Hogo would help him,
Speaker 1: he did it. He did it minytime. A lot of
Speaker 1: guys were a little bit and lower a money over with.
Speaker 1: He wouldn't say nothing. He was just slipping in your hand,
Speaker 1: he said, brother, No, brother, yeah you okay, brother, okay, bner.
Speaker 1: He would just walk away. People don't know what he
Speaker 1: did because he didn't like he would do things traveling.
Speaker 1: He didn't want people to know he'd done that. Do
Speaker 1: you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: I know that's that's great.
Speaker 1: Don't know that either. Yeah, yeah, he would do stuff,
Speaker 1: but he don't want you going around telling people he
Speaker 1: did it. Right.
Speaker 2: You know have the Shay Stadium show you wrestled Paterra
Speaker 2: and Hogan wrestled Andre and Larry Russell. Berno remember that show?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well you know every time Hoger got in
Speaker 1: the ring with Laundi, he was scared of Andrea. Andre
Speaker 1: didn't like him.
Speaker 2: We hear different things because he certainly he certainly the
Speaker 2: Hulk slam him a bunch of times and work with
Speaker 2: them all around the world over and over.
Speaker 1: One million dollars personally. Why you let homeo beach here?
Speaker 1: He said, they paid me a million bucks. Why don't
Speaker 1: you think he liked Hogan? They had this thing that
Speaker 1: were certain people like. I think it was the baby
Speaker 1: all thing about that baby all yeah, Randon sad. But
Speaker 1: he beat the crap out of around there. No baby
Speaker 1: all right, and put on that baby all and we
Speaker 1: knew right away he's gonna get beat up. He don't
Speaker 1: get beat up. No baby.
Speaker 2: All of oil checks though, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He would lay your flat on your stumm and
Speaker 1: take his thumb and ram it up your rectum.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, did that ever happen to you, Tony?
Speaker 1: No, he liked me. Oh he don't get to guys.
Speaker 1: He didn't like you. I know we're talking about the hold,
Speaker 1: but let me tell you this about all that. Andre
Speaker 1: loved me to death, hearing the reason why. We One
Speaker 1: day was measuring our biceps in the dressing room and
Speaker 1: Andre was setting at the table playing cars, with on
Speaker 1: the scolding in them. You always played call rugby whatever
Speaker 1: they're called up some type of game vision to play
Speaker 1: card that they were playing the brot the pant board.
Speaker 1: It was got a pant board that would move the
Speaker 1: little pin in the hole, put them in the hole.
Speaker 1: Cribbage privilege, crimmage. That's it. They playing cribbic. But anyway,
Speaker 1: I said, I want to measure on. So I put
Speaker 1: the tape around andrea arm relaxed. Now it was in flexing,
Speaker 1: just relaxed. They were twenty two and a half inches around.
Speaker 1: I measuring my bicet. My bicep were twenty three inches around. Yep,
Speaker 1: I said, Andre, don't you wish you're was as big
Speaker 1: as my home? We became the best of friends of
Speaker 1: that day off.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: Always wanted to fit in, he told me one time
Speaker 1: he felt like an animal in a cave. The longer
Speaker 1: you don't, he said, A midget know that he's small.
Speaker 1: He don't like when you call him shorty. He know
Speaker 1: he's short. He said. I know I'm big. I don't
Speaker 1: need to be told that I'm big, right, So I
Speaker 1: just always tell Andre, and don't you wish it was
Speaker 1: as big as me. Did you ask go to the
Speaker 1: gym one time? He said, I'm big enough?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I don't need to get any bigger, do you?
Speaker 1: Always? And you treat Andre like a normal person and
Speaker 1: don't mention his size. He's your best friend. But the
Speaker 1: moment you mentioned anything about his side you don't want
Speaker 1: to do with you, you're alienating him.
Speaker 7: Yeah right, he told what the guy didn't usually driving
Speaker 7: round him white, He's I would give up, he's a
Speaker 7: I would give up all the money I would made
Speaker 7: it been to be you for one day?
Speaker 2: Wow? Do you think that? Hult said his arms were
Speaker 2: twenty four inches, so he could be one inch bigger
Speaker 2: than you.
Speaker 1: Yeah? Really, but holdan, I was never as big as man.
Speaker 1: Everybody to know that you would go to see pictures
Speaker 1: and everything with me and him? Yeah, he never had
Speaker 1: all the biggest biggest man.
Speaker 2: I think he was twenty one twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three and a half oh, twenty three and
Speaker 1: a half inch bicepo sixty in thirty two inch waist.
Speaker 1: That's you, that's me? How about? How what do you
Speaker 1: think Halt's real dimensions were? At least twenty two? Okay?
Speaker 2: Got it?
Speaker 1: At least twenty four. I don't think that did might
Speaker 1: have been. See Holger was so tall, so I'm a
Speaker 1: tall person. He alarm was much longer than man, So
Speaker 1: it might have been because you know, he would he
Speaker 1: would like six seven, you know. Yeah, when the person
Speaker 1: sixty seven like him at three hundred pounds, he looked
Speaker 1: skinny at three hundred. Yeah, see me at three hundred,
Speaker 1: I look like a boat, you know, Sharman tank tank.
Speaker 1: What came back from Japan the first time, Tony Alan
Speaker 1: Puston was on about two hundred and forty five pounds,
Speaker 1: But when you saw him, because we're on a five
Speaker 1: foot eight at that point, I mean he looked like
Speaker 1: he weighed three hundred and TV put twenty pounds on
Speaker 1: you anyway.
Speaker 2: That's true, right, right, But Hoo got back from Japan
Speaker 2: for the first time, Tony he had he had done
Speaker 2: a lot leaner. Why do you think that was?
Speaker 1: Because what Japanese didn't eat all that junk food?
Speaker 2: Oh it's the food.
Speaker 1: Everything go down the food. You know, here's the burner king,
Speaker 1: the McDonald and all that.
Speaker 6: In Japan.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of rice uh uh caren barbecue, everything
Speaker 1: cook on on Theria it wasn't. The Japanese food is
Speaker 1: not the same. All eat a lot of Charmi foods,
Speaker 1: a lot of sugar Neck Charlie food, but not the
Speaker 1: Japanese food. You need a lot of fresh fish, a
Speaker 1: lot of fish. Yeah, Prus that trust. The matches was hard,
Speaker 1: That's right. Was another junk. There was the Jopanes. They
Speaker 1: didn't really work. That was like a shooter fight the
Speaker 1: most half shoot, half work, half shoot half work.
Speaker 2: I have to say, Tony, I always thought it had
Speaker 2: something to do with the fact that you wouldn't be
Speaker 2: comfortable bringing, you know, Diana Ball to Japan or you
Speaker 2: have to come off a cycle to go over there.
Speaker 1: Right. Well, see home was big anyway, so he didn't
Speaker 1: really need to go. And you call it, uh like
Speaker 1: people don't believe this, but but but I tell him this.
Speaker 1: If you had came down here, you could as solved me.
Speaker 1: In fact, I'm gonna get somebody finish taller to have
Speaker 1: me take a picture of me right now today, and
Speaker 1: I'm gonna seen it to you. Okay. You see, when
Speaker 1: we first got on the juice, at least with me
Speaker 1: being a competitor, this what the doctor told me. The
Speaker 1: body on it produce what it needs. So if he
Speaker 1: was the mama, you take that first injection or you
Speaker 1: pop that first pill. Your testicus are not working. You
Speaker 1: shut your system down. Now, the doctor say you can
Speaker 1: only stay on it for one month, six weeks at
Speaker 1: the most. Some guy would push it to eight weeks.
Speaker 1: But here's the thing about goal six to eight. Whatever
Speaker 1: tam you was on, you have to lay off twice
Speaker 1: the amount of tab that you was on in order
Speaker 1: for your natural system to work properly. Yeah right, it
Speaker 1: call them spare raw. If during the time you are thorough,
Speaker 1: you only you only could get it up. You only
Speaker 1: could do what you walk because of the artificial stuff.
Speaker 1: You take it. Now, I would take it one month
Speaker 1: before a power lift in me. I would take and
Speaker 1: then I would take and then I would wait six
Speaker 1: See now, after you get off, because a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't know, it stays in your system for a month. Yes,
Speaker 1: after you off. It's like pot. It stays in your system.
Speaker 1: You take a month for your system to be clear
Speaker 1: of it. So even though you took it for one month,
Speaker 1: actually you've been on the juice for two months. You
Speaker 1: follow me, I do so now that that that's been
Speaker 1: in my system for two months. I have to lay
Speaker 1: off four months before I could do it again.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, yeah, because that's what happened.
Speaker 1: He went eight months without stopping. That's what messed him up.
Speaker 1: Eight months long stock the student and when when we
Speaker 1: got off, his natural system was so burnt out he
Speaker 1: couldn't He did develop no more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he got a lot smaller.
Speaker 1: His test his tests thro level is very low now strong.
Speaker 1: So the body stopped producer test strong started taking it.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's that's wild. So you think he was able
Speaker 2: to time time his his cycles to where when he
Speaker 2: went to Japan he didn't lose size because he wasn't.
Speaker 1: Exactly he knew that. Yeah, yeah, he hadn't really long time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so the object was on you. You take a cycle
Speaker 1: once every six months. That's the safe way of doing it.
Speaker 1: But he probably did a little bit more because of
Speaker 1: his transitioned, you know. But with me, that's how I
Speaker 1: did it. It looks like he got much bigger for
Speaker 1: Rocky three. I did it accordingly to the way the
Speaker 1: doctor told me to do it, and I never had
Speaker 1: a problem.
Speaker 2: Do you remember him getting a lot bigger before Rocky three?
Speaker 2: Because he's huge in Rocky three, and he's not really
Speaker 2: that big in wrestling in the month before that or
Speaker 2: two months before that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to see that, I realized, TV put another twenty
Speaker 1: pounds on you. So if he three fought it on TV,
Speaker 1: he's three sixty. I remember if you look at the
Speaker 1: movie now, so he's going to all that Matt it
Speaker 1: look bigger in the movie, then what he will looking
Speaker 1: in real life? Phoebe all that madded put twenty pounds
Speaker 1: on you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do you remember Hulk talked about when he
Speaker 2: first got to New York, they put him with Tony
Speaker 2: Altimore so Tony Altimore could show him around and drive
Speaker 2: him around. Do you remember that? What did Tony do
Speaker 2: for Hulk?
Speaker 1: Well, see Tron it was what we called you pretty
Speaker 1: much agent that he was an old school agent. What
Speaker 1: Tony main jar was the students out every damn thing
Speaker 1: you do? Oh just five.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: He's help he's helping them, probably probably with this guy.
Speaker 1: So because the promoter couldn't travel with you, so they
Speaker 1: don't know what you do in the hotel, they don't
Speaker 1: know what to do with the balls, they don't do
Speaker 1: all the time. They didn't know what you did when
Speaker 1: you was in the arena, but outsident and in the promoter.
Speaker 1: Promoters did not want to invest money into somebody that
Speaker 1: was like, let's say if Hobo was a crackhead. When
Speaker 1: they're not going to put the belt on this guy
Speaker 1: because they said, you know, this guy could freak out,
Speaker 1: that would hurt man dog sean able to help him,
Speaker 1: say helm from him. But they knew he was wild
Speaker 1: and crazy. The same thing with Aidan Adamas. They were
Speaker 1: really not They didn't really do with Adan the dollars
Speaker 1: and aided to beat me in rocket them for the belt,
Speaker 1: you know, but they was always afraid to put the
Speaker 1: belt on a but Adrie O'donalds or one of these
Speaker 1: guys that is just out there. And I asked Gelle Scott,
Speaker 1: I said, George, how come y'all know so much about me?
Speaker 1: He said, who you ride with? Wow? Ill thinker. Yeah.
Speaker 1: They had stoogs to him that he was a student.
Speaker 1: So his dog was to report back to the office
Speaker 1: everything hold and do as.
Speaker 2: Say, that's fascinating. It makes sense, it really does. And
Speaker 2: I wonder if you remember this, Tony. Shortly after Holk
Speaker 2: got to New York, he got there in November seventy
Speaker 2: nine January of eighty, him and the Samoans were driving
Speaker 2: on a highway in New Jersey and got arrested. Holk
Speaker 2: was arrested for a possession of a firearm that he
Speaker 2: hadn't asked me. Yeah, what do you remember about all that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, but that's how I was in New York
Speaker 1: if you carry a gun. But he got off. He
Speaker 1: didn't get no child or nothing for her.
Speaker 2: He sure did. Yeah, it took a little while. We
Speaker 2: were looking at some of the paperwork. But what do
Speaker 2: you think that was all about? Why did he have
Speaker 2: a gun?
Speaker 1: And well, all the wrestlers have guns. A lot of
Speaker 1: guys had none. I see. Yeah here because did I
Speaker 1: realize that we didn't have security back then? And so
Speaker 1: you know, he com into New York City, you know,
Speaker 1: from the guy from from Florida, you know, and you're
Speaker 1: in New York City all all of a sudden, and
Speaker 1: you carry a lot of money. True, Yeah, we didn't
Speaker 1: have even guys we have three to five thousand dollars
Speaker 1: on them. Wow, because we couldn't get to the bank
Speaker 1: all the time. And you had a station parer. I
Speaker 1: was stationed in uh uh uh in New York. Most
Speaker 1: guys stayed in in handon Connecticut, right near Parkford. Uh
Speaker 1: handing Connecticut a motion of rester of state backround live
Speaker 1: in Harper. Some of the guys stayed in Palace of
Speaker 1: New Jersey. But anyway, once you leave your house, it
Speaker 1: might be a week or two before you get back
Speaker 1: to where you at. We live in the cars in
Speaker 1: the hotel, so that we go upstate New York. The
Speaker 1: first trip was Flow, then Syracuse, then Rochester, then Utica,
Speaker 1: then Troll. Then you hit uh uh hot hot I
Speaker 1: mean yeah, Hawkers, be Mads and Square Garden. You're down
Speaker 1: in Oldam doing TV. We worked seven days a week,
Speaker 1: so you had to wait till you get back to
Speaker 1: Connecticut to put your money in the bank. I want
Speaker 1: to catch your check. So a lot of guys care
Speaker 1: of guns. Monsoon had to use care of of gun.
Speaker 1: I carried the gun. I had a three ft of
Speaker 1: seamendum there you go, and you were a baby face
Speaker 1: one too. We get we all did, and you were
Speaker 1: a baby face attacked if you break up. When we
Speaker 1: drove it, we didn't flyer to say they were territory,
Speaker 1: so guys drove every way. It wasn't like we slew
Speaker 1: everywhere like we did today. So what do you think
Speaker 1: is gonna happen if you break down on the side
Speaker 1: of one of them old Georgia road because you got
Speaker 1: four thousand dollars on you and no protection.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember this, Tony, but you
Speaker 2: know David Schals, Jesse Ventura. They've said over the years
Speaker 2: that Hulk could be a way to get your hands
Speaker 2: on some some drugs. He could be a connect for
Speaker 2: some of that stuff. Do you remember that about Hulk
Speaker 2: at all? That he was a guy you can go
Speaker 2: to see.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing you gotta realize, there's nowhere on God
Speaker 1: Green Earth. I'll tell you the real Huck Holgan right
Speaker 1: a Holand gave me a rib. He just got through
Speaker 1: ding TV and Holgan will give me a ribe, he said, Tony,
Speaker 1: rib you can rib me said, I want to talk
Speaker 1: to you. There's it, Holand now from me here with
Speaker 1: friend and he dropped me off at this hotel called
Speaker 1: the George Washington and with the same hotel where that
Speaker 1: Chluka killed that girl in Allentown, Pennsylvania. And just before
Speaker 1: I remember room he said, he tested me. Grabb not
Speaker 1: to arm, he said, elizard to the kid, he said,
Speaker 1: the old Tony Atlers I knew, I knew, worked out,
Speaker 1: took care of business and did and got high a
Speaker 1: little bit. He said that Tony, as I know now,
Speaker 1: don't work out as much, don't take care of business
Speaker 1: and get high too much. He said, I love him
Speaker 1: too much, brother, for you just let that get in
Speaker 1: the way of your career. For me, give me, he said,
Speaker 1: I want my old friend doctor. He said, do that
Speaker 1: for me. Hogan told me that straight out of his mouth.
Speaker 1: I never forgot it. Wow, that'll tell you about Hogan
Speaker 1: and a drug. See this guy was jealous of him.
Speaker 1: They cured it better. See a lot of guys like
Speaker 1: David Shooks on him down. They thought they were more
Speaker 1: than what they were because old timer told me, never
Speaker 1: believe your proplity. I was there when David Ship got
Speaker 1: slammed to the floor by the police. But then they
Speaker 1: handcuffed him all tied him because he wanted to fight MISCHIEFO.
Speaker 1: He were pissed off as the team would fighting Hogan.
Speaker 1: He wanted to be Withholder. How Keen killed my gimmick
Speaker 1: that sable simmer. But he wanted to fight with Hogan.
Speaker 1: Now they put him with me instead of Hogan. He
Speaker 1: did you formed me of nath.
Speaker 2: Hogan, George Gray, you're talking about yeah, yeah, yeah, they.
Speaker 1: Brought me the Simmer. Me and Hawking was both to
Speaker 1: be doing this big fat building for Ratsimania. So he
Speaker 1: went in off there, I don't want to work with
Speaker 1: and I will work with Hogan. And the same thing
Speaker 1: with with with which whole him. He wanted to work
Speaker 1: with Holan. He wanted him to shoot I angle with Hogan,
Speaker 1: and they wouldn't let him go near Hogan. So so
Speaker 1: you think that that he wasn't over that much. I
Speaker 1: mean he wasn't here no bit. He wasn't have a
Speaker 1: big style of freaking w w F. You know that
Speaker 1: for sure. So so Hulk had. Hulk had no reputation
Speaker 1: as a big drug guy. Not really. I mean if
Speaker 1: this guy did it held a lot more thing he
Speaker 1: did what they did with the Holder. You see, if
Speaker 1: Holger got highed one night, they would build it up.
Speaker 2: Are they making a bigger deal than it was compared
Speaker 2: to other wrestlers.
Speaker 1: Exactly because they was all jealous of hem. They were
Speaker 1: jealous he was a young kid making more money than them,
Speaker 1: and move. These guys been been a ten years more
Speaker 1: than holder, and they all fled. They should got that
Speaker 1: break knocked him. They say, here are the reason he
Speaker 1: champion because of the movie. Think about it. They were
Speaker 1: not using hope, but they made that movie. And then
Speaker 1: it come come to the movie. The first day in
Speaker 1: make him champion. The first day they you know they
Speaker 1: Anna Marshall went through that freaking dressing room back of
Speaker 1: the shoes to drop the belt to him. Back I
Speaker 1: said that guy ain't paid his dudes, I mean putting
Speaker 1: the belt on him. He never pay his dues in
Speaker 1: this business. That was all about you. This guy went
Speaker 1: to the top in one day. Bo. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean the basic story, right is that Hulk said,
Speaker 2: if you're not going to put the belt on me
Speaker 2: day one, then I'm.
Speaker 1: An all the guy will wait around thinking that they
Speaker 1: gonna get the belt and then vin bringing me in on.
Speaker 1: They wanted to put the belt on, and the fricking
Speaker 1: dressing room work nuts did they? Oh? They were so
Speaker 1: freaking mad and angry avanced. I thought they won't do
Speaker 1: that with me. How come they don't put the belt
Speaker 1: on me? Blah blah blah blah. I'm hear that ship
Speaker 1: all the time. Who you told me that they do
Speaker 1: you try to get me to to to go fuss
Speaker 1: at Vincent? Yeah, Tony, they should putting the belt on you.
Speaker 1: He didn't put the belt on you cause you black,
Speaker 1: get you worked up. Yeah. I tried to get me
Speaker 1: all worked up going off it and then fuss about
Speaker 1: in them something like I said, nor was it they
Speaker 1: put the belt on this? But he was sebout everything
Speaker 1: a minute. Then after he's the most popular rest in
Speaker 1: the world right now because of the movie.
Speaker 2: Sure, Tony. Who were some wrestlers that were most upset
Speaker 2: that they gave Hulk the belt right away? Who do
Speaker 2: you remember?
Speaker 1: Well, I do not do no, David One. He made
Speaker 1: it very very clear because he felt that they screwed
Speaker 1: him anyway, told him to slap that. You guy. He
Speaker 1: was stupid enough, David one.
Speaker 2: Anybody else?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was stupid enough for fall front and slapped
Speaker 1: that uh yeah, yeah, And then he got patting on
Speaker 1: the back the day he did it. I remember, Pam
Speaker 1: out a good job, David, protecting the business. You are
Speaker 1: protecting the business, and they were the lawsuit came down
Speaker 1: the ship canter is.
Speaker 2: At that's right. Yeah, that's well documented. Anybody else besides
Speaker 2: David Schultz that was mad that Hulk got the belt
Speaker 2: on the first.
Speaker 1: Night, whoever was in the territory of that chair.
Speaker 2: Okay you remember, yeah, you don't remember who was trying
Speaker 2: to get you worked up?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: Who of all people? Really?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, he was telling me, you were telling me? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, so they they would have put that bump
Speaker 1: on you if it was him black several now who
Speaker 1: were telling me stuff like that? See, Hold, The main
Speaker 1: thing was just jealousy. They were just trying of jealouship
Speaker 1: of him because he got so much so quick.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he broke in his seventy eight.
Speaker 2: Well that's interesting because you know, certainly certainly is not
Speaker 2: expecting the belt. So maybe he's carrying water for somebody else,
Speaker 2: you know, trying to start ship for somebody else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all them guys, you know, you know,
Speaker 1: I listen him talking the calls and and stuff like
Speaker 1: that about about Holder. You know why they put the
Speaker 1: book on him, you know. And Holgan was smart. He
Speaker 1: didn't hang with the boys. He was not what to
Speaker 1: call one of the boys. What do you mean he
Speaker 1: didn't have Yeah, well, he didn't go out he didn't
Speaker 1: go out to the club with the boys. He didn't
Speaker 1: go out to Hoba did everything in his room to
Speaker 1: get room service. Yeah, yeah, get rooms. I went to
Speaker 1: your room. He had a hell of us friend he
Speaker 1: would have Yeah, he would have all the cold cuts
Speaker 1: on the table, the crew. Then they have the in
Speaker 1: the bathtub. They would have all the beer and wind
Speaker 1: all ice down in the bathtub and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: He would invite certain guys up. They would have a battle.
Speaker 1: They smoke weed, they have a battle way. The guy
Speaker 1: would go up to hogan room, reparted, but Hogan would
Speaker 1: not go down to the ball or hang out with
Speaker 1: the boy.
Speaker 2: Now was this after he won the belt or is
Speaker 2: this in eighty one and eighty always like that?
Speaker 1: Always? Yeah, because he knew to stay away from the wrestler.
Speaker 2: Yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 1: Restlers are not friend they business associating. Holda was smart
Speaker 1: enough to know that every wrestler there's his competition. I
Speaker 1: was a jock. I didn't know that, so I trusted
Speaker 1: the boy. I try to be one of the boy.
Speaker 1: Will you try to be one of the boys. The
Speaker 1: boy's going to screw you cause that's what they want
Speaker 1: you around floors and they trip you up.
Speaker 2: Love it.
Speaker 1: Ogo was never a dumbit. It was always smart. And
Speaker 1: what he did? You take with another quick start? I
Speaker 1: hit more one year for the same year they had
Speaker 1: the super Bowl. I just know where the super Bowl,
Speaker 1: and Vince decided that he's going to run a show
Speaker 1: the same night at the super Bowl. When we get
Speaker 1: to the building with more more were thirty people there?
Speaker 1: If not, so Vince counseled the show. This is Vince
Speaker 1: Junior not seeing it. He counselor show. So we sat
Speaker 1: there watching the super Bowl and a commercial come on,
Speaker 1: a right Guard commercial, and they're gonna huff Hogan standing
Speaker 1: there painting the picture doing the right Guard commercial. Vince
Speaker 1: dropped his glass, but he was drinking. They said, I offered.
Speaker 1: I tried my best to get a spot and couldn't
Speaker 1: get it. He didn't know Holman did that. I see, wow,
Speaker 1: Hold up everything, Hold there. Hogo was very very business.
Speaker 1: Uh what I want to say?
Speaker 2: Oriented yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's fast. I didn't know
Speaker 2: he didn't know about the right Guard thing.
Speaker 1: No, what about a lot of stuff? A lot of
Speaker 1: stuff Holman got himself. See, Homer started writing his own
Speaker 1: chick because they treated him like ship at the beginning.
Speaker 1: Then Senior came in one day, the rough we came in,
Speaker 1: told me to say.
Speaker 2: Do what you want to do with the big dummy,
Speaker 2: the big dummy.
Speaker 1: Wow, to do what you want with the big dummy.
Speaker 2: Why would you call him a dummy?
Speaker 1: They had this thing that Kate had been big and
Speaker 1: smart too. It was just another culture thing of America.
Speaker 1: I see, okay it was. It wasn't particular yet. So yeah,
Speaker 1: even if they had interviews on me, you could hear
Speaker 1: Greg Brontes, you totally the total. You may have big,
Speaker 1: big muscles everything, but you ain't got no brain.
Speaker 2: I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Okay, there was Yeah, that fit in an old American culture.
Speaker 1: You couldn't be big and strong and smart too. That
Speaker 1: git didn't go.
Speaker 2: What did you think about ed Leslie? He was hanging
Speaker 2: around with Hulk in the very beginning. What did you
Speaker 2: think about their relationship? Who ed Leslie future Brutus Beefcake.
Speaker 2: He was hanging with Kulk all the time.
Speaker 1: I hear different. I was not around them, so I'm
Speaker 1: gonna to speak on them. But for what I hear,
Speaker 1: it didn't turn out.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, long term, Yeah, I just feel like when
Speaker 2: he was there in eighty and seventy nine and eighty one.
Speaker 2: At certain points ed Leslie would come up to and
Speaker 2: and hang around with him because they had worked together
Speaker 2: in Memphis. They knew each other back home in Tampa.
Speaker 1: Stop to think about this now, when Holden left, what
Speaker 1: happened with them guy's career?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well that's right, that's yeah, that's.
Speaker 1: Why I'm saying it was. See what rastle. There's a
Speaker 1: lot of jealous envy. I've found out later about the
Speaker 1: jealous embassy for for George animals Field. I said, George,
Speaker 1: how come we like and get along with each other
Speaker 1: so much? Now? He said, easier kids, No more ego,
Speaker 1: No more ego. See, you can't be a top performer
Speaker 1: if you don't have a big ego. That coming. That's
Speaker 1: why you're a big start. You've got a big ego.
Speaker 1: So if anybody starting to move ahead of you in
Speaker 1: any kind of way, see wrestlers and our friend their
Speaker 1: business associated. Hear you on that one. So once a
Speaker 1: guy slarted moving up the ladder, then somebody gonna move
Speaker 1: down a lot, like Christal pas Walkley told me, because
Speaker 1: they had a limit how many black wrestlers. They could
Speaker 1: that they were having a territory. He said, as soon
Speaker 1: as I walked through the door, he said, he knew
Speaker 1: that he lost his job. He told me that, he said, Trono,
Speaker 1: I see you come to the door. He said, I
Speaker 1: knew I lost my job.
Speaker 2: That's too bad.
Speaker 1: If they hold Yeah, the sue Hober hit that door.
Speaker 1: So you have to tell me if there's an all
Speaker 1: shoe because if one person's own enough room. A car
Speaker 1: tour is like a car. There's only so many seats
Speaker 1: in that car. Yeah, and so when one restler come
Speaker 1: into the cartar, they know somebody's leaving.
Speaker 2: We started talking about Georgia. Stan Hansen was there at
Speaker 2: the same time, and then, of course Hulk and Stan
Speaker 2: went on to be a big tag team in Japan.
Speaker 2: Why do you think Hulk, Covid and Stan Hansen got
Speaker 2: along so well?
Speaker 1: Well, shee because there was on the same side. There
Speaker 1: was on the same side in Japan. In Japan, everybody
Speaker 1: team up to them. You get real close to another country, Yes,
Speaker 1: everybody get real close in Japan because Japan, the American
Speaker 1: is always a heel. There's no babyface America's in Japan,
Speaker 1: right right?
Speaker 2: I had seen that Stan worked with Hulk in Georgia
Speaker 2: at the Omni in Atlanta in seventy nine before they
Speaker 2: went to Japan.
Speaker 1: Hoba loved Stamp because Stan was like his.
Speaker 2: Protection, his protection.
Speaker 1: How so Stam Hanser was big, rugged and tough that
Speaker 1: could whoop just about anybody. But yeah, that's my soul.
Speaker 1: Sam was a big throng rugged you know, he was
Speaker 1: the real deal. Himber, the guy like Harley Ray Street Hansler.
Speaker 1: These guys would beat the hell out of you and
Speaker 1: they said whoop just about anybody that drue and broaded.
Speaker 1: You know. They were just big rugged guys. Hogo was
Speaker 1: not a street fighter. These guys were. And so what
Speaker 1: happened was when you go to Japan, you go to
Speaker 1: these countries. I used to hang around to Aaron Sheep
Speaker 1: that was my runner in Darn Morocco. He was my
Speaker 1: running budd. It's in you. You stayed the gun life.
Speaker 1: I want to go destroy get something the Sheik and
Speaker 1: Morocco would go with me. If Hoga want to go
Speaker 1: get something, Stam would go whoop me. So you're getting
Speaker 1: real close where you're in a farm country. Because see
Speaker 1: novel soccer, the guy usually drive the bus and he
Speaker 1: told me one time, he said, I like you, but
Speaker 1: I don't like I don't like Americans. I see. I said,
Speaker 1: that's what you guys tell me. I got a picture
Speaker 1: of him. The name was Peter. He drove the bus
Speaker 1: and he said, I like you, but I don't like America. Yes,
Speaker 1: And I said why not? He said, my father was
Speaker 1: one hundred miles away when he dropped the bomb and
Speaker 1: he melt it. He melt it in his shoe.
Speaker 2: Oh jeez, that'll do it.
Speaker 1: That's what the guy told me. His father melt in
Speaker 1: his shoe. He was one hundred miles away. And I said, well, well,
Speaker 1: I'm an America. He said, not to them, you are,
Speaker 1: I see, because I was black. He didn't consider me
Speaker 1: as Paul America. That help what he felt, you know.
Speaker 1: And so when we go over seas, I went to
Speaker 1: break and all these trays said we were bombed. We
Speaker 1: didn't let him a bomb, but we had to look
Speaker 1: after each other. When you're in a foreign country, we
Speaker 1: hulk always. But he talked about going to Japan in eighty.
Speaker 1: When he started. He would always say, you know, I
Speaker 1: was single back then. He always says single. I know.
Speaker 2: He had a couple of girlfriends out there. Did you
Speaker 2: ever see Hulk kind of living it up in Japan?
Speaker 1: Well, I would know Holman being like a one woman man. Okay, yep,
Speaker 1: the Holder right know, he's always stuck with one uh sure,
Speaker 1: one one woman. He didn't like all the mess of
Speaker 1: the law because I think I think he was homophobe.
Speaker 1: I'm not homophone, but durma jerremophobic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting, yeah, yeah yeah yeah your paranoim.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, he'll he'll burke clean. You know some girls,
Speaker 1: these girls definitely to call him Arina rat. They would
Speaker 1: go to your room, Do you go to my room?
Speaker 1: Do me go to Holer room? They would do two
Speaker 1: or three guys that night without washing. I mean it
Speaker 1: was fun. It was was wild. Back then we come
Speaker 1: to the sex far, so you had to be real Casso.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of guys came back with diseases
Speaker 1: and stuff. The last day Holder wanted to do is
Speaker 1: go over there, Casser fucking deserve especially when you overseas.
Speaker 1: I mean, come on, now, you oversee they don't have
Speaker 1: the same stuff that we do. That when I was
Speaker 1: in Africa, the last thing I want to do go
Speaker 1: to be one in Africans got it? Got it?
Speaker 2: Did you?
Speaker 1: What did you say? You live in a mud hunt?
Speaker 1: Do you think I'm going to bed with you washing
Speaker 1: yourself in a foot tub? You think I was no
Speaker 1: dog in the housing? I'm gonna go to bed rick?
Speaker 1: You right right? Did I mean you crap? Crept the
Speaker 1: banana tree? You want me to have seck with? Got
Speaker 1: you the banana tree? Though?
Speaker 2: So Tony, when Halt took off in eighty four and
Speaker 2: he got the belt and he it was this worldwide superstar.
Speaker 2: What were your thoughts you worked with him when he
Speaker 2: first came to New York in nineteen eighty and nineteen
Speaker 2: eighty one, What did you think when you saw this
Speaker 2: guy become the biggest wrestler ever.
Speaker 1: I loved it, we all all. I hope I'll be
Speaker 1: on the same call as him, of course. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean I was on a call with Holgum. I was
Speaker 1: making eight nine thousand dollars a week, incredible money. Yeah,
Speaker 1: before I was making twenty five thirty five hundred a week.
Speaker 2: Did it make sense to you that he could draw
Speaker 2: like that considering you know the whole gun he used
Speaker 2: to know?
Speaker 1: Like I said, it was just something about him that
Speaker 1: people just I mean they wanted to see the hunks,
Speaker 1: I mean Hawk Maleia wrestling business is what it is
Speaker 1: now because of two people. Two people haulk Hogan and missed.
Speaker 1: But man, we wouldn't have worked with anybody else. It
Speaker 1: was a perfect It's something that comes around once in
Speaker 1: a while, like a Muhammad al league. I mean, Tryson
Speaker 1: came close, but nothing like our league. You know that,
Speaker 1: like Larry Bird, I mean you know these certain guys,
Speaker 1: they just come along maybe once every hundred years. You
Speaker 1: get a guy like that that would have that type
Speaker 1: of ability and to set up to bring that sport
Speaker 1: to a top level.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and so you.
Speaker 1: Know he just he would hit the hit.
Speaker 8: And you know who's the main thing that that the
Speaker 8: Mainhoven Andre No, the.
Speaker 1: Al tootal hamincause Iron Sheik. Yeah, no, he held American
Speaker 1: hostygen I was there when to put the belt on
Speaker 1: the street. You know what then bigger fear was keeping
Speaker 1: him alive. Yeah. The Sheet is the first wrestler to
Speaker 1: have bodyguard, the first wrestle they have body God. They
Speaker 1: had a hard time getting him in out of the arena.
Speaker 1: People wanted to kill him. And when Hogan beats him,
Speaker 1: that night, brother, the place has exploded and it and
Speaker 1: they stayed and they stayed at that level for what
Speaker 1: ten years? Twenty years? Almost it exploded. We left. We
Speaker 1: couldn't do TV in doll Intown no more. We had
Speaker 1: to go to the Silver sum and just to do
Speaker 1: TV for Kipchick.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: We didn't do arenas anymore. We didn't do small vineas anymore.
Speaker 1: I mean everything was was Colosseum, then Simmer the stadiums.
Speaker 1: We had to go to rest Ma had to go
Speaker 1: to the stadium.
Speaker 2: Amazing.
Speaker 1: I mean the career, what a story that Tony Allison
Speaker 1: a bum went off of something because of this guy.
Speaker 1: You guy was on everything Talk showed the whole world
Speaker 1: was talking about Uncle Mania. Yeah it was.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to get there as we go through
Speaker 2: his career. But last question for you, Tony, we asked
Speaker 2: this of everybody, we have one to talk about Hulk.
Speaker 2: What was your reaction when you found out that he
Speaker 2: had passed away?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Did we lose him? Tony? There I heard a beep.
Speaker 2: He probably killed the cell phone. Maybe he didn't want
Speaker 2: to answer the question.
Speaker 1: But anyway, can you hear me now?
Speaker 2: Yes we can, Tony I'm very sorry. Did you hear
Speaker 2: my last question?
Speaker 1: See what happened that the sheep? What the first profile
Speaker 1: is selling out there? Bet everybody want to see the
Speaker 1: sheep get beaten, right right? So they did? They are
Speaker 1: uh definitely go back a little bit. It almost not
Speaker 1: has happened because back Onam refused to drop the belt
Speaker 1: to Hogan. What they had to take the belt off
Speaker 1: of off of Backham and show what they did? They
Speaker 1: had They put the Aaron Sheek in against Backham to
Speaker 1: get the belt off of back Rum when Bakla did
Speaker 1: not want to do it. So it had never happened
Speaker 1: in wrestling before the card number one gave you know
Speaker 1: how they got the belt off of Backrum through the
Speaker 1: towel end without telling Bobby each Why didn't Bob want
Speaker 1: to lose the belt to Hult Here he paid his due?
Speaker 2: Oh, for God's sake, he wrestled with him the nineteen
Speaker 2: eight hundred times.
Speaker 1: Got just how. That's how the old towners learn, That's
Speaker 1: just how they were. See, I did not like losing
Speaker 1: to anybody that can beat me in real life. Okay,
Speaker 1: that's how we were. But we had this idea that
Speaker 1: I put you over in the rain and you go
Speaker 1: out to the local bar and the local bouncer beat
Speaker 1: you butt. That hurts me because I just put you over,
Speaker 1: got it? See Hallow Race. I put Hallow Race over
Speaker 1: all day long. But when some of guys like holding them,
Speaker 1: they couldn't shoot. They were not shooter. And most of
Speaker 1: the wrestled backs and old they will shooter. They was wrestler,
Speaker 1: they were not. They were all tough guy. They going
Speaker 1: to ball. Terry Funk got his reputation him and hollow
Speaker 1: Race got from the rain the ball fights, bar fights, Yep,
Speaker 1: that's right. They going to bar. They cleared the front
Speaker 1: the ball, you know, one guy and run everybody out
Speaker 1: the bar. Hallow beat up everybody in the bar. And
Speaker 1: then the next days in the newspapers and the building,
Speaker 1: this show up. That's how Rafter would say, Oh tistic
Speaker 1: by getting invalled, fight, getting up people. Yeah, that's how
Speaker 1: they did it. Fulka did that. He'd never proved of
Speaker 1: him that he was a tough guy.
Speaker 2: Hulked up in real life. Yeah, well I should ask you, Tony.
Speaker 2: You know, because Lufrignan came out an incredible hulk in
Speaker 2: seventy nine, and that hulk comes along Terry gets involved
Speaker 2: in the business and they basically make him, you know,
Speaker 2: the Incredible Hulk. And then I noticed a lot of
Speaker 2: your comebacks were kind of like Incredible Hulk. Did you
Speaker 2: did you pattern anything you did in the ring after
Speaker 2: the loof Forigno stuff? No, there it is, okay.
Speaker 1: I wrested by instinct. You see. The old time they
Speaker 1: did that. We didn't comp anybody else for what we
Speaker 1: would do. We would try and move in the ring
Speaker 1: and if if the people buy, we keep doing it. Well,
Speaker 1: I'll tell you something that I did that hold him
Speaker 1: got from me. That putting the hand up to the ear.
Speaker 1: That another one, Yet he got that from me. And
Speaker 1: guess where I got it from? Where Dusty Road? I
Speaker 1: saw dust due in the in the in the armory
Speaker 1: in Atlanta, so I did it. I went to New York,
Speaker 1: but Dusty got it from from the boat Politan. But
Speaker 1: there was territory. There was no cable, so I could
Speaker 1: do something in Georgia, and people in New York didn't.
Speaker 2: Say it right unless they had cable.
Speaker 1: But now you do something in order to see it
Speaker 1: in Japan. So we so most stuff that we did
Speaker 1: we saw like sputt the Monroe. Damn Raine cadillact man.
Speaker 1: Def where Rick Flaird got that from spud the Monroe.
Speaker 1: They were the first dam Raine cadillact man. It wasn't
Speaker 1: it was sput the Monroe.
Speaker 2: Love it origins origins, We love it Tony Well.
Speaker 1: Nobody knew about sputting because he small territories. He never
Speaker 1: made it like Mulla Muda was what it was. They
Speaker 1: call her slave girl.
Speaker 2: Yes, slave Girlmla when she started yeah, the.
Speaker 1: Famine mo and then she started off which she was
Speaker 1: his manager and spent in my role manager. But you
Speaker 1: could do stuff in different.
Speaker 9: Territory like we'd hope of the hope of the dud
Speaker 9: an interview in uh, North Carolina could call me a
Speaker 9: brown monket, but that interview.
Speaker 1: Would not fly in New York.
Speaker 2: In New York, right, that's it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what what was What was your thoughts when he
Speaker 2: left in eighty one? What do you remember about him
Speaker 2: leaving the territory?
Speaker 1: You mean we went winter arn? Yeah, you talk about
Speaker 1: hold them.
Speaker 2: Right, Hogan? Yeah, yeah, when he left because you were
Speaker 2: his last opponent in New York in that run, you
Speaker 2: he beat you beat him twice in the garden.
Speaker 1: You beat him in the spectrum, and we were kind
Speaker 1: of disappointed because I was hoping to work with him,
Speaker 1: like I told, but Tom and Rich try to get
Speaker 1: him to uh to do hang with me and Hope
Speaker 1: and then only just wouldn't go for her. Yeah, we
Speaker 1: were nobody, Yeah, we were. We were disappointed because we
Speaker 1: figured we could have made some money with him.
Speaker 2: Do you remember when he left Vince the first time,
Speaker 2: Vince Senior being thinking you'd never see him again.
Speaker 1: Or that's what we all thought. I mean you would
Speaker 1: until he made that movie. Yeah, nobody really be armed
Speaker 1: with that paid him in an attention.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: He was not a wrestler. He was not that good
Speaker 1: as a wrastler. He didn't do wrestling. Move think about
Speaker 1: him wrestling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm doing it right now.
Speaker 1: Everything standing up, Everything is standing up. Nothing on the mat,
Speaker 1: very little, very little. That's what the rest these guys was.
Speaker 1: They look at things from a wrestler point of view only.
Speaker 1: And that's why Vince Senior never US holder because Bob
Speaker 1: Backman was a rastler.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, big contrast.
Speaker 1: But the world changed and the wrestling board the crap
Speaker 1: out of the fan. They were getting bored with. Let
Speaker 1: me and Kim Boteroll, for example, we raise a whole match,
Speaker 1: and that's what we did, the whole match ahead lock.
Speaker 1: The people are bought in there. I mean we used
Speaker 1: to get a hope and the job, and then you
Speaker 1: could work a hope for ten to fifteen minutes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the by hub, he fight to get out of the
Speaker 1: bay hud, the guy lift mom or drop off lift
Speaker 1: moarm drop off fat. I hit him, I hit him
Speaker 1: my head, but I get out of the bay hub
Speaker 1: and then all of a sudden, I'll go over to
Speaker 1: get him. He raked mind took me back to the
Speaker 1: bay Hood. People got bored with old the old school
Speaker 1: wrestling because it was a different generation of people. See
Speaker 1: the guys that trained me, they came out of the sixties,
Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties. Yes, the guy that taught me
Speaker 1: so my Motalitian was wrestling in the sixties and the
Speaker 1: fifties and sixties. Now I met Johnny Weaver. He was
Speaker 1: in his forties, he'd been wrestling for twenty years. You know,
Speaker 1: claud Might, Bill Jack Mulligam. Them guys started in the sixties.
Speaker 2: Totally different mentality, right.
Speaker 1: So Rake Flower came along in the seventies. Old in
Speaker 1: reality didn't come along to the eighties. He saw it
Speaker 1: in the late seventies, and it was almost the eighties
Speaker 1: was coming along and the whole came into business. For sure,
Speaker 1: I saw it. I started in the seventies, So the
Speaker 1: motality of the building was totally totally different than the
Speaker 1: eighties and definitely than nineties. About nineteen ninety, guess what
Speaker 1: the fans didn't like? No more.
Speaker 2: Wrestling? Oh no Hulkgan, Mike Tyson, No, no Steve Austin,
Speaker 2: the good guy ah oh chure speaking of Steve, Yeah,
Speaker 2: the anti hero, Adam true Earl.
Speaker 1: Nobody liked the good guys in the good Guy was born.
Speaker 1: They didn't like him. They called ball back with how
Speaker 1: do the duty? How the duty? Why do you back?
Speaker 1: Home of turned heel w w c's w.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well we all saw that play out. Absolutely we're gonna.
Speaker 1: Get there, the home of Repino being a business man
Speaker 1: that people did not like good guys in the boat.
Speaker 1: So what if everybody became a bad guy, it just
Speaker 1: worse and worse, worse and worse.
Speaker 2: Well, it's had a great tour through the history of
Speaker 2: the business, Tony, we got a lot more than we
Speaker 2: bargained for I want to ask you one final question.
Speaker 2: It was the one I asked when we lost our
Speaker 2: phone connection there. What was your reaction when you heard
Speaker 2: that Hulk Cogan had passed away?
Speaker 1: I cried, Oh did you really well? See? I just oh,
Speaker 1: I just drew a picture of him. So he got baptized,
Speaker 1: and I mailed a picture to him, and then I
Speaker 1: sent him some coffee. I asked him when he signed
Speaker 1: the coppage for me, and he signed the coffee, and
Speaker 1: uh saw him back Timmy and me and him we
Speaker 1: talked and then he thanked me for the what I
Speaker 1: said about him about his daughter. That he's trying to
Speaker 1: protect his daughter because the guy Oga knew, the guy
Speaker 1: who would try to use his daughter to get close
Speaker 1: to him. Once he found out, once he found out
Speaker 1: that that uh that uh, he couldn't get close to Oga,
Speaker 1: he dropped that woman like a bad habit. He's not
Speaker 1: with her now, the black guy, he's not with her now,
Speaker 1: right right, correct, exactly because and and Rastler knew that
Speaker 1: a lot of guy would try to be with your daughter,
Speaker 1: get with you because he's famous and witch, you know,
Speaker 1: so he saidured that he did. He's gonta Tragnan and
Speaker 1: once he gets a friend him, but he's set hober
Speaker 1: gonna take care of him for that woman. And what
Speaker 1: he was thinking, Yeah, Holga been around the block. Ober
Speaker 1: knew a bad guy for his daughter. Goodness. Yeah, had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with his nationality because me and Hogan
Speaker 1: we talked, there's black people and then there's niggas. Okay,
Speaker 1: so Hogan that would he was not a black.
Speaker 2: Man, Okay.
Speaker 1: He was one of these guy that tryed to spunge
Speaker 1: off of Coogan and Holger knew that if it was
Speaker 1: the white guy, Homer had a name for him to
Speaker 1: do that too, not doing had not do it his
Speaker 1: for his your sir, and the way Hoga felt that
Speaker 1: this guy was not the best guy for his dog,
Speaker 1: for his daughter. He had angered him, then his daughter
Speaker 1: would not listen to him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this comes up in the context of him passing away.
Speaker 1: How Yeah, well, he's thank me for for standing up
Speaker 1: for this was three weeks before he died. I talked
Speaker 1: to him three before he died. Wow, but you always
Speaker 1: called me call me after I need anything. He got
Speaker 1: mad at me where I was homeless because I didn't
Speaker 1: call him. Yeah, I said, hold on, I didn't have
Speaker 1: no fall I was doing. He said, brother, if you
Speaker 1: other need something, you should have called me brother. He
Speaker 1: didn't call me brother. He said, I'm so kissed at
Speaker 1: you for not calling me. He said, when I hear
Speaker 1: that about my brother. Another time, I was in uh, Florida,
Speaker 1: and I went into the hold doing all of thatps
Speaker 1: and I went in and said hi to him, and
Speaker 1: one guy say hey, I got lucky. He said. I
Speaker 1: came here hoping I see one legend. I end up
Speaker 1: seeing two over you and Tony ad He said, Brother,
Speaker 1: I don't see Tony Adlers as a legend. I see
Speaker 1: him as my friend. Say so, I see holding as
Speaker 1: my friend. So I can see why you.
Speaker 2: Hear about.
Speaker 1: We started to gotta mean Tommy Rich. You know, we
Speaker 1: were like it was like a family. And Huldan always
Speaker 1: looked after me. He never did me wrong, number talk
Speaker 1: bad to me. We would talk about anything, and if
Speaker 1: I got in trouble, he would pull me over the side,
Speaker 1: said brother, let me tell you this, do that that,
Speaker 1: and and people say he's racing. He put his life,
Speaker 1: his career on the land for Coco. B were Coco
Speaker 1: beat up an agent. There's fire co Cooke Holgo went
Speaker 1: to the office. He said, if if Coke Coo B
Speaker 1: were a lead, I'm leaving true Coco is a black man,
Speaker 1: sure is? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked to him. I don't remember mentioning this,
Speaker 2: but that's wild. What what agent was it?
Speaker 1: Uh? He was he used to be a hockey player
Speaker 1: Jimmy staud I thought Jim Troy story. Okay, yeah that
Speaker 1: he was kind of a Jim Yeah, something like that.
Speaker 1: You can play hockey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a TV executive for Vince Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But see, it didn't start with him and started
Speaker 1: with Sean Michaels. Right. Yeahko went over to break it up,
Speaker 1: and he turned on Coco. See, Coco was not involved
Speaker 1: in the fighting. It was sewn Michael. Sewn. Michael couldn't
Speaker 1: walk away up a wet paper bag. So so so
Speaker 1: so the bar tend to go over around. The boss say, hey,
Speaker 1: these guys getting ready to fight, and you go there
Speaker 1: and break it up. So Coco went over to break
Speaker 1: up the fight ended up in the fight. See see.
Speaker 1: But but but then Hopah stood up for him. He
Speaker 1: stood up for me too. Wow. Yep. When I came back,
Speaker 1: if they wanted to fire me minute, he said, he said,
Speaker 1: let me talk to Tony. Hey came and talked. They
Speaker 1: told me that story that I just told you about
Speaker 1: the old Tony Adams and a new tone happen and
Speaker 1: Mans wanted to let me go then, and hope he
Speaker 1: talked him out of it.
Speaker 2: So those are the things you think about when when
Speaker 2: he won.
Speaker 1: For a lot of people, well, Holo was the type
Speaker 1: of guy he would do something, but not go around
Speaker 1: bragging a body. Yeah, so he did a lot that
Speaker 1: people didn't know because he kept it on the rack.
Speaker 2: Very very interesting stuff. Tony, thank you so much for
Speaker 2: taking us into your memories of Hulk, working with him,
Speaker 2: knowing him so personally. I didn't appreciate how close you
Speaker 2: were with him.
Speaker 1: And we've put down Holger. Put this down for Holger,
Speaker 1: for this is the real Hobo. Hobo neil for God,
Speaker 1: stand for the flag. His belief is God country and Seth.
Speaker 1: So if the three were Deshrine is God country and.
Speaker 2: Seth sounds like an American Fourth of July to me,
Speaker 2: Thank you, mister USA. Tony at Well, that was him.
Speaker 1: That's all that I knew for what fifty years, I've
Speaker 1: never seen anything differently what I told you.
Speaker 2: We can salute that mister USA, Tony at let's kind
Speaker 2: enough to join us to reflect on Hulk Hogan. Thank
Speaker 2: you so much.
Speaker 1: Shameel Copper that paper when you're writer.
Speaker 2: Now, Oh, it's gonna be it's gonna be an audio podcast, Tony,
Speaker 2: so you can listen to the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, well you gotta tell me how to hear that.
Speaker 2: And yeah, well we'll try to get you the link.
Speaker 2: So you just tap it on your phone and you
Speaker 2: should be able to start hearing it.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna have my buttons to say to take
Speaker 1: a picture of me so you can see what I
Speaker 1: look like.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know I'm a black guy, right, Yeah, that
Speaker 1: came That came up a couple of times. I thought,
Speaker 1: I'm more surprised you with it.
Speaker 2: Okay, you all the best to you, Tony. Take care, thanks, Tony.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, please a production on the Lab Entertainment Group.
Speaker 1: It's content is intended for breven use only.