Speaker 1: It's The Lapsed Fan Wrestling podcast special report. The Lapsed
Fan presents the Complete hull Coogan, a real American story
brought to you by Garage Beer.
Speaker 2: Well, another Independence Day here in the United States of
America is upon us, boss, is it not?
Speaker 3: Yes, Yes, it is to celebrate America two hundred and
fifty times.
Speaker 2: If you had two hundred and fifty times, and as
if that hasn't been beaten over, folks had enough. That
is what's special about twenty twenty six. And for us,
if we're in the midst, if we're in the thick
like we are of the Complete hul Cogan, can there
be a more real American? It's so true. It prompted
some reflection, some pause. It prompted us, I don't know
this fourth to crack open a can of garage beer. Fuck. Yes,
the most American of beers on this most American of holidays.
Think about how we've enjoyed independence in twelve years of
podcast dominance and forcing folks to collect our crumbs, be
they you know, red, white, and blue cake. It could
be yeah, it could be number of crumbs, but we
thought it highly appropriate, highly appropriate, as we not only
exit Hulk's initial run in New York from nineteen seventy
nine to nineteen eighty one, where we started to see
maybe some of the very first indications that he might
have something in him that might equate to an American hero.
And instead of just a preening and super hulking muscular
BRAWNI heel that we'd also seek out the most American
of voices from this point in Hulk's career. How about
a legit mister Usa himself. We go and Hulk's final
New York opponent in the seventy nine to eighty one run, Tony.
So we're really excited to have connected with mister Ratless
as part of the complete Hulk Cogan to get his
reflections on sharing the ring with Hulk at this very
fertile time for him, and in fact is you'll come
to hear from the WWF and it's a it's a
uniquely Tony Aatless experience. I would say, Indeed, he's clanging
and banging, and we wanted to make this sort of
a special Fourth of July treat for everybody, bringing mister
Usa on talking about the most American of icons in
Hulk Cogan and if we're going to do that. We
thought it made sense to look ahead, just to peek
kind of like we are looking ahead to the Summer
of Lapsed. I mean, oh yes, let's be serious about
how how real this is getting. I mean we're basically
leaving at the end of the month.
Speaker 3: I mean we basically we are. I mean that's it.
I mean, you know, this is kind of it that
it begins. It begins at the end of this month
and it doesn't let up until until pretty much the fall.
Speaker 2: So absolutely so not just having Tony Atlas on the
year waves. It's not just thinking about Hulk Coogan. It's
not just about the two hundred and fifteth University of
the United States. It's also about the Summer of Lapsed
and not only hitting that most America of spots America.
Speaker 3: Can I tell you something like exactly? You know what
was funny is that I it's pathetic in a way,
but you know, at the end of last year, in
the beginning of this year, there were all these signs
for two fifty. They're all talking about two fifty, and
I was like, what fun are they talking about? I
know they didn't make it fifty? What like I don't
understand two fifty what are they talking about? And I
was like, it's like it's it's an anniversary. It's like,
oh shit, yes, no, like it didn't even dawn on me.
Speaker 2: I fifty is hardly a superstar weight.
Speaker 1: Exactly right.
Speaker 3: You wait for the big three hundred, you know, maybe
hopefully we'll celebrate the three hundred and third. I think
we will. We should anyway.
Speaker 2: But yeah, that's like I said, been everywhere, But this
is our little contribution and to what that is all meant.
As we continue marching, we're about to enter a whole
new chapter for hul Cochin. I mean, needless to say,
some serious change is about to come to his presentation,
but where he fits in the world, how he moves
in the world. So we consider this yere interview with
Tony Atlas kind of one last nod to the the
Hogan that people still might call green, you know, the
whole that still doesn't feel fully formed in some vital
ways in terms of what he became. And so Tony's
going to take us through all of that, and we're
very excited about that. But as I said, America's mall
SummerSlam weekend and then we go to you know, we
got enemy territory exactly. You know, we go, we go
where where you know we go to.
Speaker 1: We go to the home.
Speaker 2: Of of where we were vaulted. Because I mean, let's
let's be clear. Even if Vern broke you into the
A W A in the seventies when he was the
promotional kingpin in the Twin Cities, who did he send
you to get two to get broken? In the most
English of shooters, Billy Roys Robinson brother. So we're bridging
that Minneapolis London gap in our own very special way.
Coming up, of course, August twenty eighth at the Dome
in North London, the co Chairs take the stage for
our very first, perhaps a very last live show in London.
Tickets still available if you want to join us. Without
further ado, let's pull ahead an article that appeared in
Pro Wrestling Illustrated in August of nineteen eighty one. So
that'll tell you how much of a lag the publication was,
because we just finished talking about fucking funny how Hogan
and Tony were wrestling in the spring. But not until
late summer do the readers of p WI get a
front page story on.
Speaker 3: Well hold on though hold on, don't forget though, it's
not really late summer. Yes, this probably would have come
out in June. Okay, that's a fair turnaround time. It
just says August on the time. It's always hard because
you never know, like these things are always you know,
it's always it's such a I hate that, really, and
I always said it a bunch of times. I hate
that the magazines don't actually come out or the actual
month isn't the actual month that they come out, and
it's this weird you know, we've got to be ahead
of the game. So it's almost like it's like car
dealerships like, oh, you know, it's like, well, we got
the twenty twenty seven model, Well, how do you have
the twenty twenty seven model in twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: Right, It's that the twenty twenty six model exactly.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And not only does the date on the cover not
reflect the date it came out, but the coverage in
the magazine is two months before even that. Yep. So
it's like, yeah, came out in June, and all the
articles are about what was happening in April. And we
ran into this earlier on the complete where we thought
we had dispensed with the Sterling Golden run as truncated
as it was in Georgia Championship Wrestling, and moved on
at WWF and him being Chris and Hulkogan, and then
all of a sudden, one of the after mag drops
the big probing article on Sterling Golden and he isn't
even on television as that anymore. Yeah, by the time
it comes out. So we've been moving perhaps faster than
the speed of the wrestling media and the wrestling business,
and we're about to find that out. Sounds about right.
But here we're gonna pull this one forward from the
pages of p w I to set the table for
our interview with Tony Atlas and a reflection on the
feud he'll be talking about. He's featured on the cover
the Press Slamming Hulk, and it's gonna be great to
talk to Tony about the process of press slamming Hulk Cogan,
so she could imagine there were concerns Boss, Yes, brother,
to say the very least, But what are you pressing slamon?
What are you all about? Looking terrified? And red trunks,
red knee pads and are those gold boots?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I've never seen him in gold boots,
but no, maybe they're silver. Maybe they'res silver and they're
catching the light in a weird way.
Speaker 2: That's it. Yeah, that's much more likely. Yeah, because we
did see him in red and silver gear if I
remember correctly, Yes, in our last nineteen eighty one episode.
And he's got the gig tape on his forehead and
his mouth is hanging open, and Terry's Terry's going out
of WWF and style here in nineteen eighty one thanks
to mister Usa. Look at that slam. It's a great
shot too. It's a great picture, What a great what
a spectacular visual to create after all those months and
over a year in the territory being someone that you know,
no one could budge unless you were Andre the Giant.
Even Andre wasn't about to press lam Hogan over his head,
and no one would ever do this again to Hulk ever,
So enjoy Hulking press lamb while it lasts a warrior.
I guess, yeah, he dropped him on his stomach, but yeah,
the full slam over the top, but he does lift
him up over his head. Yes, well we'll look forward
to that as well. But here's how it was framed
up for the research of pro wrestling. Illustrated Hulk Hogan's
final program of his first run in New York from
seventy nine to eighty one. The headline Tony Atlas versus
Hulk Hogan the war between wrestlings Superman Boss take it away.
Speaker 3: They simply don't like each other. Let's amend that statement.
They hate each other, hate each other with every fiber
of their muscular bodies. Atlas ho Cogan laughed, called that
got wrustler dustin guys on the beach who can wrestle
way better than Atlas on.
Speaker 2: The beach.
Speaker 1: At the Gracie Beach in Rio. Well, I mean, you know,
you do think about it.
Speaker 3: Maybe uh in about fifteen no, yes, about ten twelve years.
You know he would have you know, he wrestled guys
like Jim Knighthar on the beach and thunder and Paradise
and stuff.
Speaker 1: Oh is that what you mean?
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe that's what he's talking about it. Okay, So
I withdraw my point.
Speaker 3: Then that boy can't can't hold I candled a lot
of a lot of people who are discriminated against because
they don't know how, because they don't bow and scrape
to the fans what I don't know, what the fuck
what even means? Hulk Hogan's a loser, said Atlas. He
ain't done nothing his big mouth that it said he
would do. All he can do is shoot off his
big mouth and make a lot about big mouthwaves because
the mouthwaves. The big mouth waves with his mouth. Oh okay.
Speaker 2: That means by the discrimination point is Tony can't claim
he's being discriminated against because what if he wasn't such
a kiss ass? How much harder would he be discriminating?
I guess so because he he knows he can't do
nothing in the ring. A guy like Holgan ain't a
wrastler but an oversized bum. This feud has been simmering
for some time now. Unlike many feuds where the protagonists
find themselves embroiled in something they never intended, the Atlas
Hogan wars were inevitable even before they ended up in
the same area. Why because in some respects they are
quite similar. That remark prompts Angry to notiles. You know,
ain't nothing you can say in the whole world without
lead me to Atlas, just because I had a great
body and that Atlas thinks he's got a great body.
Ain't no reason to say there's any similarities at all.
We're going to have to do some autopsy. Yes, just
because I got a great body and that Atlas thinks
he got a great body, ain't no reason to say
there's any similarities at all. Okay, Yeah, just because he
says he has a great body and I do too,
he doesn't mean you have to agree. He's also has
insured on this is world's greatest Jim Hamden, Connecticut. So wow,
anyone who clanged and banged at the World's Greatest in
Hamden eighty one?
Speaker 3: I guess yeah, not much. I think even know how
to reach out to great or East World East Gym.
Let's say it's not greatest East. Yeah, even great about it,
that's for sure. For one statlast agrees with his foe.
Lots of people look at us and all they can
see is our physiques. You figure, since Hogan's built himself up,
but I'm mister USA and been winning bodybuilding championships for
a long time now, they think we got similar techniques
or something.
Speaker 2: Well, truth of the matter is what, Yeah, that's still
him going. Oh.
Speaker 4: Truth of the matter is Hogan uses his strength for evil. Well,
I just use my strength for good. Just look at
the way we wrestle. All it does say it. It
says it.
Speaker 3: All Holgan can do is break the rules. He only
knows how to cheat, nothing more than that. He's If
he's so good, then how come he's got a cheat.
If he's so strong, how come he got a cheat?
It does say how come he got it? In that
second one. If he's so talented, then how come he
got a cheat?
Speaker 2: Well that, let's raises an age old question the article.
Speaker 3: Which is nagged professional wrestling from the beginning of time,
and Hogan has a ready self serving answer. I'll cheat
at a bit. I don't have to cheat, not when
I'm wrestling punk like Atlas. When you see what you
see the ring is me having a stupe to his
level of wrestling. You know, there's an old saying in
wrestling that you always rise to the level of your competition.
You can be the single greatest wrestler over lived, which
is me. And if you have to wrestle a bum
like Atlas who can barely stretch out his arms because
he's so overdeveloped that I ain't gonna look quite as
good as I might. That's only because I'm wrestling a bum.
It will give me some real competition, which they're probably
ain't this WWE, and you'll see the real hun. I
don't see anyone cable rising up to my level, Hogan continued. Yet,
the critical difference and the fuel for their feud rests
and their different approaches to building their bodies. Hogan builds
his superb physique through sticking a needle in his bum.
They gave up the ghost earlier that I thought through
more floor exercise is like push ups and lifting heavier weights,
while Atlas pumps lighter weights in greater repetition to gain
definition and his muscles.
Speaker 2: I just want to just comment on this, you know,
I think what you really should talk about is is
the fact that you know, Atlas he lives heavier weights.
You know, you know he lighter weights with a greater repetition.
The definition he's a defining athlete or is you know
Holgan is a he's a SUPERB? Did he call Tony
Alice a defining athlete? I wish you meant, you know,
definition from a you know, physique standpoint defining athlete makes
him sound.
Speaker 1: He was about to call Cogan superb physician.
Speaker 2: That would be George the Horian. Okay, haym this Gary
Michael Capeta call the hand well the best thing he
said in that whole.
Speaker 3: Thing honey baked Tan. He had at least four before
each appearance on TV.
Speaker 2: I love this. Wait till you hear what Tony says.
Totally goes down this road of the difference in workout
regimen between the two.
Speaker 3: Hog and don't know the first thing about exercise and
thundered at list the things they can do doing a
bush bush ups and that gives him strength. Well, my
strength is more useful in the ring and his strength,
don't you know, don't take don't take much to keep
pumping those lightweights. Naturally, it don't because Tony Atlas doesn't.
Speaker 2: Perhaps this is all the same category events saying on
television when Holt came back from Japan that his weight
is just distributed differently.
Speaker 3: I'm not you know, you know, if you were able
to massage yourself in a different, different fashions that can
actually massage musculature, you know, down to different uh you know,
uh part in your body and you can you can
you know, uh uh kind of develop different parameters in
that regard and provide you know, a distribution method that
enhances and also creates body differentials, a distribution method. Indeed,
if only Sean O'shey was able to prove it, perhaps
the only method to settling this violent feud is in
the ring. Only there can the dissimilar styles and common
contempt be settled. One match between the two is history.
Both men eagerly await future battles. We eagerly await the sage,
wisdom and insight and recollection of mister USA. Tony Atlas
here on this Independence Day twenty twenty six, I want
to thank you so much for being with us through
this all American ride. It is an an American story,
after all. The complete Hulk Hogan presenting now our interview
with Tony Atlas as we say goodbye to Hulk Hogan's
first stint in New York.
Speaker 1: Hi, Tony, Okay, well, I would be talking to you.
I'll be talking to you. I'll be working out at
the same time. Fits in my work. That's all right.
Speaker 2: This is Tony Atlist, ladies and gentlemen. And if we're
going to talk about Hulk Hogan's first run in WWF,
we've got to talk about the last few he had,
and really this July fourth weekend, it's a pleasure to
welcome mister Usa himself. He's in the gym, folks, so
he's going to be getting some reps in while he
talks to us. But we're really glad to get some
of his time. Tony Atlas, thanks for.
Speaker 1: Joining us, Yes, sir, good being with you.
Speaker 2: All right, So we know that you first came across
Hulk in I think seventy nine in Georgia. What was
the first interaction you had with him?
Speaker 1: Well, it's strange. I just won the Georgia title from
Dennis Condric and that's him a lot of all the
big this senior he wanted all big wrestlers, so so
he ended up all the big guy that was going
in New York and burned Don You and all them places.
So I was the biggest guy in Georgia at that time,
believe it or not, I was two hundred and sixty
eight pounds. But all the bigness wrestler in the old days,
the heel is always bigger than the baby face. That's
how they wanted you know the heel because nobody likes
you a big guy up on a little guy. So
it worked perfect for old school wrestling. Well, anyway, it
was arrested by name of Thommy Wildfire Rich and Tommy
went to only Anason from one part of the Minnesota
wrecking crew. There was no on Amazon. Then it was
only and Jane Anderson. They were they would have ridden
to Anderson first, it was laws Anason, and then Jeane
only came along later. But anyway, uh, Tommy Rich went
to older said, holy d you know, Tony don't have
nobody big enough to work with him. Why don't you
use that big guy. You know, he's all muscled up.
It's all a bad work up. And they were saying that,
I mean, y'all work a program. We're trying to work
with the big guy on AMAS. I say that guy
would never draw a damn in this business.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And they didn't do the program. And then I didn't
see Cogland animal and that I went to New y'all
that's wild and right, and even though he was big
and powerful looking, everybody would beat him. I beat him
every time. I got him in the right every time.
Speaker 2: Well, we'll talk about that for sure. I mean what
I saw watching some of the old Georgia tapes is
there's a confrontation between you and Sterling Golden in the studios.
Stan Hansen is talking with Gordon Soley, and then Tommy
Rich shows up and Hulk is just getting out of
the ring having just squashed somebody with the bear hug,
and you guys are face to face at ringside in
the Georgia TV studio screaming at each other. Sounded it
looked to me like they were trying to set up
a program there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but did know we never really work a lot
in Georgia. I mean I probably just beat him. I
just buil him up for me to beat him.
Speaker 2: Sure, was there a situation there, Tony where that they
started the program and then decided against it. And that's
why we see an angle the.
Speaker 1: Problem, you know, to see the thing about me, I
was not really part of the office. So they were
a promoter that they had a thing that they would
do with the wrestler. Let's say I want to make
you champion. Well, before I put the belt on you,
the first thing I would do is, uh, have somebody
have somebody to beat have you to lose to somebody
that everybody beat. Yes, uh, and then I would set
back and look at your face because putting it in
the older day, putting the tighter on the person was
one thing. Trying to get it off was another. Because
the wrestlers had a lot of control. The only thing
in the promotion, the under the promotion we'd do was
he was in charge of promote. But once you got
it to the ring, there was no way on God
Green Earth that uh uh yeah, wait, let me do
a seton I'm yeah, I'm I'm trying to do an interview.
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, hold on one sure?
Speaker 2: Go ahead?
Speaker 1: Yeah, hold on?
Speaker 2: Sure we're being asked to hold on or if we're live,
pal one offul kind? I thought I thought we pulled
one off when Larry watched the Bruno match with this this.
Speaker 1: Is a.
Speaker 2: This is you hear me, Tony?
Speaker 1: Sure? Can I do a set? Somebody want to try
to take keep talking. You can't let it out on
the machine.
Speaker 2: You cannot let anybody take your machine. I understand that
what I.
Speaker 1: Do, I do my interview. Go ahead, go ahead and
use that, go ahead, use I do it. After I
sent in my interview that's all. It comes back to it.
Speaker 2: Thank you, Tony.
Speaker 1: I was listening to Uh anyway, make a long story short.
See he was a bad guy there.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: He was managed by Classic Freddy bless it and and
and I know I'm skipping around, but they called the
office and they wanted a picture of a wrestler over
three hundred pounds, over six feet tall. So the son
and pictures a big John stud Andrea to day the
Ronner montsou Well come care for the audition. Nobody showed up,
but hold him you're talking about that mon Sue was
the promoter. He was a promoter of New Jersey, so
he didn't need the money. Of course, Andre at that end,
at that time was making all four or five hundred
grand a year, had a big mansion out in North Carolina.
So the traveling back and fall to Japan and you're
just making crazy money. So Andre didn't need the money.
Big John Stubb was being pushed at that time, uh
and making good money, Hogan, but was pretty much was
what we call a jobber, okay, pretty much. Yeah, he
was not a job for everybody, just for the top guys.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Andre was staring him around quite a bit. In nineteen eight,
exactly exactly. He was scared of deough of Andre. He
was scared of death of Andre. And anyway, Hoga went
made a movie. Yes, people forgot. He wasn't with ence
when he made that movie. He was with burn Gunya
out in Minneapolis.
Speaker 1: And when it came out right, when he went to
the movie, he was always went him. This got rought
of him, this division using you never did number, They
didn't number for one after the movie, Yeah, you're with it.
Speaker 2: Do you remember do you remember hearing that that Vince
Senior told Hulk he can't do the movie? Do you
remember any of that?
Speaker 1: Well, that fabably did, but that they told that that
was that that fabably true because they told all of us,
do that give you a quick store or how the
business work? They were so afraid of losing talent because
what happened in the past. We got a ed Earl Maynor, yeah,
way back right, and then he got into the movie
and stuff, and then then then and other stuff, and
he didn't ration no more. Then it was that called
woodish stroll. Yeah, we know what he strode wotrow. But
he wasn't after too. He got in the movie, never
came back then you had uh his name called the oriented.
Speaker 2: That oh from ah from uh James Bond movie. It's
you got in the movie.
Speaker 1: They never seen him again because they found out that
they could make the same. But it's not more. Plus
with the movie, you had a guaranteed right. So every
time they show that movies, you get a check in
the water check and rest you get. There's no there
was no insa on. A wrestler had to be more
than just ar wrestler. You have to be a businessman.
Uh so wrestler what we called who was all to
call it steff? Uh employed? So you pay, you paid
your own TAXI, You pay your own See what the
wrestled the dress put you on. Let's say one hundred
thousand dollars a year. You get one hundred thousand dollars
a year flat, but nothing is taken out of that check.
So you have to pay your state and federal income
tax out of that check. Yes, you got to pay
your own taxic. If you want a helfa show, you
got to pay your own helfa shows out of that chick. Yes,
you are right for yourself employed. You're not the only
people that is employee. Are people that work in the office.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, that's that's uh, that's the way it's been.
And I wanted to if I could remind it back
to the Georgia days because I was listening to Ron Fuller.
Ron Fuller had a podcast. He was talking about how
he was the first guy to push Terry and he
was in early seventy nine, creating him as Terry the
Hulpe Boulder. And then at a certain point Terry went
to Memphis. And Ron said, when Terry went to Memphis,
he was in need of some big, muscled up babyface
because Hulk was already a babyface. And he said that
he brought you in to Southeastern his territory down there, Pensacola,
that area, because Hogan had left for Memphis.
Speaker 1: Do you remember that, Well, probably not, not really, but
I know at that time because there was a lot
of guys that we was in one territory, but we
was all over because we were suffer special. Just get
an example like Dustin Rose. He always was based out
of Florida, but he ras anywhere because of his popularity
from the magazine. Yes where at that time, you know,
there was only two wrestlers in the world that had
that type of physique and that was me and superstar
Billy Graham, right. You know, we was known for being
the two musclemans of that earl. So so even though
I was in Georgia, I went a lot to reserve
Rasa there. I went to Texas for the von Erks,
I went to Puerto Rico. I'm in Japan, and you know,
because people wanted to see this physique that I had.
You know, I was a United States Barnygullon champion. They
never had that in rest in a full And that's
where the term mister USA compan is not from which
I am very patriartic, But the name didn't start because
of my patroness through the country. He started because the
Barnagullon title mister in USA. Once I won that, that's
what they promoted. Like Peter, they promoted him his Olympic
our stuff because seeing the old day, our job was
to make the people believe and if they could get
something legitimate, they would push the hell out of it. Yes,
because they're legitimate. This guy really is. Because we had
a lot of guys that pretended to be something that
they wasn't. Like Alvin Coloff was French Canadian.
Speaker 2: That's like a really good one. So you know, obviously
Terry was big, But what was the difference between Terry's
regiment and your regiment? Because you were really cut in
seventy nine eighty and he wasn't.
Speaker 1: HLBM had what very few people had dust Road had.
I would say the best pressure to prepare him to
was Dusty Road. Here's the reason why Huff Holgum is
a remake, a remade a Superstar Bill of Glare.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: A lot of people have tried to the three people
have took that women. You see super soft Bill a
bear with a butt. The people know. I saw much
like that in wrestling in New York. Nuh And the
bigger mistake Vince Senior made that he realized that later
were taking that belt off of Superstar. So every safe
they took the belt off the Superlow, they would look
for somebody to repate with the tribe with Jesse. Jesse
didn't pull it off. But I remember when I first
got so Hogan now I'm a good guy. He's a
bad guy. Every time I wrested. If you could listen
to the audience, half of the audience were cheering for Hogan.
Asked caring for me. Everybody he got in the ring,
the same thing happened. They were promoters, didn't use it
because people he could not he couldn't get over totally
as a heel, and he wanted to be a heel
for the whole time. He was a babyface for the
moment he came to that door. Why do you think
that is he had? It was just something Well, this
is the reason why in New York they have one
Colcasian main eventor.
Speaker 2: Boy Backland yea at the time about Backland, Yeah.
Speaker 1: That was the only person that was on top that
was not a minority. See, Vin Senior had the idea
that he wanted somebody to represent all the nationalities in
New York. So that way he had to have Japanese,
they have to have Puerto Ricans, have to have Black,
have to have Polish, and all these people were you know,
non you know like Alex Husky, he was Cocasian, but
he went at Polish power. Yeah, so he represented Poland,
not the USA. So Caucasian at that time made up
eighty two percent of the population and the rest that
they had no reputation to represent. And on top of that,
the three major sports. The three major sports in America
at that time was dominated minorities, sure, yipball, basketball and baseball,
and they were the three major sports. With wrestling. They
saw that in wrestling and w c W only you
very few minority but New York. You know, he named
all the wrestler that was around me. If you noticed them,
all minority, Jimmy Schluckers, all these guys, and so what
Jehovah there would change the scenario once they put Hogan
on top, hence reversed it. And then all your top
guys except for junk Yard Dog and Pdo Santana, was
all occasion. It's not a racier FAO's of business than so.
Speaker 2: You're saying that's why Hulk got cheered even when he
was a heel against you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they had nobody to cheer for in New
York for years. Say you know, even Bruno Simonino, he
was super far of the last white guy they could
cheer for. Think about it. Yeah, Bruno was up, Bruno
was Italian. It's a cion on top.
Speaker 2: Of it, Tony, what was the difference between Hulk's workout
regimen and yours?
Speaker 1: You had?
Speaker 2: You know, you were so sculpted. He was huge, but
he wasn't sculpted.
Speaker 1: What was the difference, Well, Hobum didn't compete, So if
you don't compete, uh yeah, right right. Hobo was a restaurant,
you know, he never thought about being a bottlegood. So
he went in for lotw reps and heavy weight, and
I would do both. I would do the heavyweight, but
I also would do the reps. And then my diet
or to is how you eat, you know, like like
like like oga, we eat fried chickens. I eat baked chickens.
Speaker 2: Right yeah.
Speaker 1: He would eat mac and cheese and I eat a solid.
He eat the cherry pie and I eat the cherry.
The cherry would not eat the cherry pie. Right. I
never eat bread when I was competing. Bread was out
of it. So mainly I ate meat and uh, veggies
and fruit nothing else. And Hogan still enjoyed some of
that Southern cooking. It sounds like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
We had a lot of greens. You know, I call
it greens tale, you know, in a veggie. You know.
I I wouldn't eat potatoes because that to me was
a start. All I ate was just veggies, fruit and
uh uh uh uh uh meat and if I got
a burger, I would get them without the gun.
Speaker 2: Did you give yourself a cheat day?
Speaker 1: No? No, no, no, no guitar. Yeah yeah, we both
started one cheat they didn't one that you see what
I'm saying. Got here. Yeah, when your bottle bill, you
got to you got to be dedicated to it. Uh
one hundred shake, Tony.
Speaker 2: I'm looking through some of the results from Georgia and
I see a couple of matches you had, uh that
were tag matches. It was you and Ray Candy versus
Austin Idel and Sterling Golden. Do you remember any of those? Wow?
Speaker 1: I remember that wall.
Speaker 5: Before we were all snida, he was uh Rick McCall,
Mike McCord, Mike McCord yep.
Speaker 1: Mich McCall. Yeah, yeah, Mike Mike McCall is at that
playing guy because that he became lost all that white
that when he became Paul Island. Yes, yeah, Well you
bring back a lot of a lot of a lot
of memories. You know, it's all for me, remember a
lot of stuff because you realize that what you're talking
about was almost fifty years ago.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, and it's and you were so busy.
It's like it's it's hard to remember one match first another.
That's why I bring it up to spark the memory
with the promotion job.
Speaker 1: But if they kept you busy, did they know you
don't have time to do nothing else? Right? Yeah? And
getting that's how they kept you in the business. Like
you told me about the Cohoba not to make the movie. Well, anyway,
when I became mister the USA in nineteen seventy nine,
Johnny I wish the name Tim Wood. Tim would he
wrestled mister wrest number one. He he sagged me up
for it. He went to the gym and shamed me up.
And he said, Tony, have you got the office? Tell
you you could go? I said, yeah. I went by
George Scott, he was the booker. He said I could
go to the contest. He said, you really want to
go to the content? I said yes. He said, well,
don't answer your phone. I said, you shure, He said,
don't answer your phone? He said he said, he said
this this bus. I do not want uh wrestler to
get involved with other sluff Becausey're afraid of losing them.
So all day the phone kept ringing and ring it
and ring it, and I don't know what Tim Wood says,
don't answer that phone. So I didn't off the phones.
I got on the plane. I flew to New York.
Uh you gotta put this in there too, my life.
I almost got killed that day. The guy that the
guy took pictures of me, he was he took pictures
for the uh uh, the magazine, and he heard that
I was gonna go to the contest, so he was
gonna pick me up at the airport and drive me
around pick picture of me on stage to put in
the rest of magazine. His name was George palm Tana.
Georgia pala Tana was his name. So anyway, he picked
me up at the Laguardi Airport. We drive him uh
uh to where they're going to have the show at
and I saw this guy just kicking the crap out
of this woman. So I started to get out the
car to help the woman. George grabbed me around the waist.
He traned everything in his power to hold me back.
He said, told him he's her pimp. He wouldn't you.
And as soon as he said that, the guy noticed
me trying to get to her. He reached underneath his
jacket and pulled out of his gun and probably walking
towards me. Oh my goodness, jump back in the car
and George took off and they were George La Paulo
Thomas Jesus and I would have died that day. I
would have got shot that day on my way to
the mister Ussa tidle.
Speaker 2: Wow, it's one of the other, right, dead or you
become mister Usa that day.
Speaker 1: I would have not that day. Even if I hadn't died,
I would have went to the houspital. I wouldn't have
went to that contest. I was either end up in
the house bitter all the way Joab, I would not
been in that car any way. I won the contest.
I came back then and then all of a sudden
my phone went the hell are you? Then as I
went to the contact, but we were looking for you
all over and everything. Get your ass down to the office.
We got a bump with so for lard. Joan was
going to meet me that day. To me, he would
go to the off the and Rufus said, how do
you do in the contest? I said, I won? He said,
go back in your apartment, get your trophy. Then go
get the trophy. I said, I don't want to care it.
Go get your troping. You want to say, go get
your trophy for the freight train dell. So I went
back to my apartment and I got, uh, got my trophy.
Well in a way. When I got to the office,
I had my trophy and then uh, David Crockett said
what that troph for? I said, first place? Think you one?
I said, yeah, I won. It's all fantastic, which usual
all TV.
Speaker 3: Yah.
Speaker 1: Well rufus knew why they called me. See, they didn't
want me to go. They wanted me to put me
on a little spots filled. They didn't need me. But
they didn't want me to go to the content. So
they what do we do? They tell you could do something.
Then the day of the show they recall you, and
and then and they have you to arrest us somewhere,
and therefore they do. And then when you told me
about the Holger, yeah, over the only one. They told
him that with the with the uh they did her
like I told not to go and make that movie
of wonder Woman. He was going to do a wonder
Woman if they pass it up for them and then
they end up tier anyway. That's what they do, that
the rassal auto tip. Yeah, but they want to keep
you in the business. And once you get involved in
something else, why are you gonna travel in that highway
they call them bump where you're gonna make the same money,
make more than a movie.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah, We've seen so many do that, Tony. Can
I have you go back to if you can remember
anything about uh teaming with Ray Candy against Hulk and
Austin Idol.
Speaker 1: Not really fine, I know, yeah, it's hard to think
about uh uh that fuck. But what I do know
about Hogan if you could find that, man, I bet
you dollars to do nothing that half of the order
is caring for Hope.
Speaker 2: Wow. Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the thing about Hope. It was something
about him that people just drew to him. You know,
certain people that the Dusty Road were like that Dusty
was like it was there's something about Dusty even it
was a big fat guy and everything else, but you
know it didn't matter. Well, why don't you think Olie
Anderson saw that in Hult? Because only was a wrestler
and he just looked at hoban ability as a wrestler,
which Hoba did not. It was not the best wrestler
I see. Yeah, he was not like a terrorist frong
or you know, a Harley raised. He was not going
to call a rastler. So he always felt when Vince
chained the business, Olga was perfect for the Hobo was
perfect for entertainment business. He was not perfect for the
wrestler building. He looked when he tried to rast try
to picture, and another guy was like, I was thunder
Boat powders of powder was a big draw, but he
was not a wrestler. But you put him in a
wrestling match. They did a match one time with Oli
and uh Thron. The Boat a wrestler and the first
person to throw a punch lose a match. Let mean
thunder Boat had the rest of this whole match about
throwing a punch, and many per say the thunder Boat
matching was punching. It was the worst, brother, it was
the worst match. Anybody saying they like but influential. Nonetheless,
guys that was good entertainers like Ox Baker. He was
a great entertainer, but you put him in a wrestling match,
he looked horrible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's about with Austin Idel. I mean you talked
about about this. Yeah, hold on grand I can see
him taking one, not doing one.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they all hip tops, even hip tooss. Yeah, any
wrestling move, name one that he does well.
Speaker 2: I would say, Tony, you struggled mightily to get him
up for that gorilla press, and.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because he didn't want to go up. That was
his first slam, tell me about it. It wasn't It
wasn't just his first press lamb. It was his first slam.
Speaker 2: Were slammed him. But yeah, press slammers it.
Speaker 1: Called big guys back then, three oundther pound guys. They
didn't take them bumps, They didn't take them by bumps.
Speaker 2: What did he say to you about the gorilla press?
Was he like saying, no, don't do it, brother, Or
how'd that go?
Speaker 1: Watch his hand? He tried to grab my trunks and everything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it looks like he's trying to stop.
Speaker 1: You look at him. He tried to grab hold of something.
He was scared enough. I kept saying, old still, I'm
dropped him. I'm trying to give him hold still. He
almost pissed on himself. He'd never been up there before.
That was his first tam up there three hundred song pounds.
He was thinking about now I'm going to dive in. Yeah,
think about you, three hundred forty town man. You'd never
been off your feet, he's never been sue fletched, he's
never been back drunk. He'd never been slam until he
met me. Okay, so for him this new territory for
uhuse what most big guys do that you're just going
to just beat you up like guerrilla Monsoon. Monson didn't
take no slams or anything right Big John Stub. In fact,
they had a gimmick with John Slow the first person
to slam them. What was it that? Yeah, they had
a slam thing for them. Guys.
Speaker 2: When you were when you were Togan Tony in those
matches where you grilla pressed him, what was it like
before the match in the locker room talking about what
was going to happen?
Speaker 1: Did you have you were get fired?
Speaker 2: Okay? Wasn't there a story where where Vince said around
you and Hulk that do whatever you want with him?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you were talking there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we has separate dressing room, right so that if
you noticed the old family, we didn't dress in the
same dressing room. So the rough for you was a
guy that run back and forth. Yes, uh, the rough
we would would tell you what what they were saying.
So because the rough, we would go from dressing room
to dressing room, the people really know what was up.
But I couldn't walk into the hill dressing right, and
we couldn't even ride together. We couldn't even say at
the same hotel.
Speaker 2: I guess I should have just said, did you know
going in the ring? Did Hulk know going in the
ring that you were going to press slam them?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 2: Okay? And was there a lot of negotiation? Was he like,
I don't want to do that? Do you remember?
Speaker 1: No? No, if you go home to do that, what's that?
Speaker 2: I'm sorry you go?
Speaker 1: They were saying, you home right right? You pretty much
need you had to be in a certain position, right
like a Harley Race could have done that, but not
a ton of Afson, not of Okhovia understood. Yep, yeah,
just like in an element, and you have to you
have to be in a certain uh like God to
write your own check. It took a certain person. Holman
was able to do that later where he could write
his own check, but the first time Hopah had in
decision on what he did when we went to w CW.
He never had no say so on what he lived.
They went to w CW, he put it in his contract.
See you put it in that creative control, said that
he had control over over his finishes. Yes, of the match,
Tony were exchanging it.
Speaker 2: We were sharing some messages with I think Daniel Seveldi,
one of the Savoldi family members, and he says, there
is a story about when you were working with Hogan
and Hogan was really paranoid about getting fucked in the
ring and went to Angelo and basically told him not
to slap three. When you guys wrestled in Philly. Do
you remember that?
Speaker 1: Never just say it again?
Speaker 2: Well, I think the story is when you were wrestling
Hulk Hogan in Philly in nineteen eighty one, just as
he was about to leave the company, Hulk was worried
about uh, basically like a fast count. And the story
is that during that match he went to Angelo Sevoldi,
who had Mario Sevoldi refereeing the match, and Mario did
ref the match. We saw the tape and that there
was basically a promise that Mario wouldn't count hulked down
in that match when you rolled him up. And if
you watch Mario, he kind of does have a weird count.
He hits the mat twice and then he like he
hesitates to hit it a third time, and then he does.
Do you remember any of that?
Speaker 1: Well, you see, that's what I'm saying. So that went
off in the heels. That's your room, yes, true, Ah,
so what I went. I knew nothing about it. It
see that. But see Holger was not going to kick
out on me anyway. Because there's something else that we
could do back in over the day. Yeah, brother, that
we could do them. We can't do it now, but
buy then if he has screwed me in the ring,
I would have stretched him. Oh really, I was a shooter,
m I was an amateur wrestler and I boxed in
the Golden Glove before I got into wrestling. So what
these old channels would do in the old days, they
would kick the crap all of you if you screwed
around with them? Did they promoted? They try to get
sweep with me in the rain, but he's putting me over.
I knew I could beat him up if I wanted
to do you have to sound I'm.
Speaker 2: Saying absolutely no.
Speaker 1: I understand thought Ober knew that if he screwed around
with me out there, he won't have problem.
Speaker 3: When you knew that, when after you after you rolled
him up with the you know he did a pin
with a roll up, and even say after he came
back to w w F after you know, after he
went away and a way into the movie whatever, did
you notice any kind of increase in paranoia and nervousness
by him?
Speaker 5: Uh?
Speaker 1: Something that that you follow another motor. Yeah, I come
out of the Auer trust and that hold them that beat,
the hold of that whole will never beat.
Speaker 2: Oh, that's true. It's concerning did did he got back?
Speaker 1: Did you ever try to win back?
Speaker 2: Did you ever try to get that win back? Like
even later on, did you? No, he didn't want to.
Speaker 1: Didn't want to see. Vin Senior told me something and
over everybody knew that Tony, if you could lift them up,
you could pin them. That was my finish and the
old day we respect each other finished. Hogan knew I
was going to press hell. I was looked to be
in WrestleMania. Uh, white armist. I was coming out the
hotel the Ramada in the Fall and ninth and eighth
Street Armist Polo was waiting at the door with him
with a twenty five hundred dollars check. He's a kid
the bar want you to take the night off this
wrasser Mamium one. Now I got to raft a Bunday.
They gave me the check. He said, look, if you
signed the back of the check, I give you. Catch
you and your lady. I was dating this girl man
from Total Week because she was a witness in the
Jimmy Slipper murder. But any way, me and her will
go out. I'm gonna have a good time because I
was gonna rash a Bunday. They called as d Jones
and asked he to come down to take my place
at the keen call on Bunday because Bundy knew I
was gonna press him because I did it on TV
when he was wresting the Press. They knew I was
gonna press him. If I don't slam you, I will
set you on the rope like I did Paul Umboff
and patch you on the head. That's how I kept
myself over. So guys knew. They said, Tony get his
hand on you you're going up in the air. You're
gonna You're gonna go up. You couldn't something I had
a four hundred I had a six hundred and fifty
pound bench and a four hundred and twenty five pound
cleaning jerk. I used to do eight to ten reps
with three fifteen behind see him behind the neck presses, right, Yeah,
so that's why I hold them. The other got back
in the ring media not.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a well, you make a great point that,
you know, Hulk, you know, never got.
Speaker 1: Back and whop everybody. He came back and whooped everybody but.
Speaker 2: Me, And it's a great point that he got those
wins back. Another thing no one else ever did was
roll him up from behind, although he was I'm sure
concerned about that, but like you rolled him up from behind.
Speaker 1: Well, see wrestlers knew that because see the wrestler had
more control than than they do now. So the promoter
could tell me what they want to tell me, the
one like a prooter, like it's a master. Why and
Paul on off? They told me they said totally wanted
to put Paul over when I had heath with Paul
for he bit my ears. You know. So I liked him,
but not that much. So I said, well, I don't
do what I want with him to run. I picked
him up, put them on on the rope and made
him look sullid. I did the same thing BRANDED said,
made him look sully. So the old time I make
her look sully, I'm the newtra all them guy like
and hold them. He knew about them shooters and how
and how they would hurt you. So they tried to
break his leg when he was in Florida, this Japanese
trainer Shootie or what he was Shootie. Yeah. Yeah, he
wasn't very big. Weren't watch five ft eight maybe two hundred.
It wasn't hakushi right now, no, something like that. Yeah,
he would wanted the trainers to head on him. And
then what were the shooting like the Boston Sushi and
all these Yeah, yeah, he didn't want to beat the
hell out of the hold gun. Yeah, so Hoba knew
that these God, if we all knew how to shoot.
Speaker 2: I want to play you a clip, Tony.
Speaker 1: We have it here.
Speaker 2: I think you'll be able to hear it on your phone.
This is one of the promos that Hulk cut in
New York before you wrestled him in nineteen eighty one,
he cut a bunch of promos. You might you might
recognize this. It's just twenty seconds, but I want to
get your reaction to it.
Speaker 1: Just here we go. You will never ever ever pin
me or be me in the center of the ring.
There are a few things you might be better to
be at. One on the shine shoes, maybe chusing spears,
and maybe eating watermelon. Boy, you ain't nothing about a
suit up spider monkey. And when you get in that
room with me, I'm gonna show you the rooms the
USA and the only undefeated russeller west in the world. Today,
that's tough to listen to today. I remember that interview.
Speaker 2: Yeah you can hear it, Tony.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he called me a spodermunker.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what about all that today? It really doesn't sound good.
What about that when you were were you okay with that?
Speaker 1: Well? Yeah, because you see, you've got to go with
the time.
Speaker 6: You got to go with your pamp. Everybody had names
for everybody back then. Everybody had named for But look
look at the Jui batter called or tell your people gettings.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was a time. You know, you have to
make rationing look real, mh. And during the time that
what they call black people monkeys, and they called the
Jewish people. They had names for Jewish people that they
called a canyon WAPs and guineas. And I mean it
was all power of the of the of the environment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, he was, he was.
Speaker 1: He was going along with the tam the of the
of the pirit of pan and a lot of guys
did that. You know, it was you know, uh, it
changed when a little when they got to Cava. I
remember Black Josh Mouthergun did an interview one time about
about lynching me and uh, you want father, you're gonna
try father and length meet and our Pat Connough trick
or said, that's a little bit kee for you. You
can't go that far. You got to do another one.
He said, what part you want to get? What he said?
The lynching part?
Speaker 2: All right, So that's that's good, that's good to get
your reaction to that at the time. So you didn't,
you didn't, you didn't have any objection to that.
Speaker 1: Oh no, no, no, that was good. Heat heat. I
think the black people out there, all the black the
bill was packed. So the more outrageous you were the
butt of the business was back in the day. That's
why Ronnie Piper was so popular later because he was outrageous,
and why Stone Cold Steve Awsome so popular. He was
so outraging, you see, the more out of work fare,
the outrageous and the way he talked and act and
bland and all this and that stuff. So that's him.
That was a big draw in the in the in
the in the industry. See, name didn't people is not
as sensitive. There was a different type of people and
the wheels all ranged. Sticks and stone would break our bones,
but names would never hurt. So so if somebody call
your name and you got offended. He was considered as
a punk.
Speaker 2: A punk to be offended by a word.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well wait, yeah punk. It had under with homosexual.
It was you stalk, you can't take it. They would
like suck it up.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I think as Tony you know, all those
years later, Hulk had that thing where he said the
N word on tape, and I think people go back
and watch this stuff from the early eighties, and you
know what I mean, They're like, oh see he always
was comfortable talking like that.
Speaker 1: No, but he came up in that environment. Yeah, I
was too there to stop me from saying stuff like that.
But the problem I can't get in trouble for it
because because of my color, you see political correctness. And
you can put this in the paper if I make
sure you put this in the paper. What help bogan?
Is political corrected before wife's only? Prove me wrong? Interesting
for littica correctly before wife's only. How can a black
guy use the N word and become a millionaire and
hold her use it and and lose lose everything? Is
that possible? The word, the meaning of the world don't
change because the color of the person said it is.
They mean what it means. They don't change.
Speaker 2: Right now we're living through it. But it's wild to
see these promos at their time.
Speaker 1: Hey, nigga mean nigga, fag mean fag, sissy mean sissy?
Don't boy? Who said right right?
Speaker 6: Right?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: So whur coup is so different with cold gun because
he's what's he's uh, well, yeah, he's Caucasian. He is
a part Panamanian. Yet the only way you can get
in trouble for what you say you have to be Caucasian.
If you're black, you're saying what you want to say.
Nobody gonna say nothing about it.
Speaker 2: Fascinating.
Speaker 1: So that was your reaction to the getting raps. So
they use it all through the song You walk through
the Black neighborhood. They called each other the name then
also they as soon as the white guy said also,
they're in trouble. To me, that's the same thing that
they did back in the sixty A white guy could
say what he want to say, but a black guy couldn't.
Same thing, same thing, reverse discrimination, political correct wife.
Speaker 2: You have it from Tony at Less himself and then
himself weighing in because that clip of him saying that
in like watermelon and all that stuff that came up
again recently on social media. People found it and were
recirculating it, and I always wondered what you thought about it.
Speaker 1: Brother, let me change something. He didn't lie. Excuse me,
he didn't lie. Okay, he didn't lie about none of that.
If we were felling the truth. Brother, I'm from Virginia,
and most Virginia black, all white. I don't care who
you are. See, we couldn't afford all them sweets like
they do now. Sure, most of farm for most blacks
were sharecropper. They work on a farm, especially down South. Yeah,
so we were pranking in watermela and that was our dessert.
Speaker 2: Sure, water melon's delicious.
Speaker 1: Watermelo. Yeah, people people live on a black little fried
kicking was the reason they loved for I think it
was the only time during the week where they got meat.
Speaker 2: I see some they're done up. See I love it
because it's delicious. But yeah, I didn't realize.
Speaker 1: You see, you see people didn't eat like they do
their day back in the soil. You understand. My mother,
On Monday we cooked a pot of beans. Guess what
you have for the next three days? Beans bean? Yeah,
America chop stewart like America chopped short. How long you
say you can eat that America chop shot. Well, it's
gone days and days they had left over. So on
Sunday they had a big sun. That done after everybody
back in the older days they went to church on Sunday.
After church, they had a big sun. They've done up
after the big sun had done it. You have fried chicken,
mashed potatoes, green beans, and peach cobbery. You're making me
hungry here, pal well, definitely my money just saying here,
but that, but that would part of our tradition. And
instead up until the seventies and eighty, thing changed. And
then people started working different job, different employment, and and
and and and the change and people started eating meat
every day or whatever they want. They say that just
having chicken on. So see, there was no minimum raigs
back then. So what happened my mom? She would work
her job. Minimum rage at that time were probably about
a buck sixty because you got to and there was
no role verse in wade, which means the average parents.
We had. The smallest family in my neighborhood was nine kids.
Speaker 2: That's what you mean?
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, There was no role vers in wage, so
we had second I mean my dad took to say
time we look, my mom got pregnant, got pregnant.
Speaker 2: At different time.
Speaker 1: Indeed, but he had to you had to have a
recommens he could stop having favors. He's a lapsed fan
wrestling podcast with Jack and and JP Soro. It's a
lapsed fan wrestling podcast.
Speaker 2: Can I ask you a question about Hulk that I
didn't ask before? Did you ever have a disagreement with him?
Or did you guys always get along?
Speaker 1: I love him like a brother. Is that right? He
was the best, most generous to do anything for anybody
person in my life. Anything Holman said on the interview,
A lot of them. Woman. He was greening back then,
so the old timer would tell him how to do
an interview. So whatever Holman said about the brown monkey
and stuff, some promoter told me to do that. They
even tried that with me later on in my career.
It didn't work because the environment chad. They had me
the wrong Summers. You could look it up. In fact,
we're at ninety two ninety three when I was a
heel in w c W and I'm on the wrestled
round so many the first black head of the first
black champion. They had me to call him a porch monkey.
Told me this, Yeah told you. You know you you
could say that and get just what it told me.
You can say it and get away with it. We came,
I see you could say that, but we can't. They
want to be aldle to heat between me and Ron Summer. Well, anyway,
I went out there call him a porch monkey, and
and and uh and then I said uh uh uh,
I said, Ron, uh, you living proof that Indians had
sex with buffalo. She said, wow, they really gave you
the leash kest Now know about a month later we'll
watch it. Well, we're getting all these brothers from the
n W A, CPS and all the black groups, and
they wanted me off the TV. That's my w c
W and letting go.
Speaker 2: What what was something that Holp did that was generous
that you remember.
Speaker 1: Hoger? Well, if a person helped Hogo would help him,
he did it. He did it minytime. A lot of
guys were a little bit and lower a money over with.
He wouldn't say nothing. He was just slipping in your hand,
he said, brother, No, brother, yeah you okay, brother, okay, bner.
He would just walk away. People don't know what he
did because he didn't like he would do things traveling.
He didn't want people to know he'd done that. Do
you understand what I'm saying?
Speaker 2: I know that's that's great.
Speaker 1: Don't know that either. Yeah, yeah, he would do stuff,
but he don't want you going around telling people he
did it. Right.
Speaker 2: You know have the Shay Stadium show you wrestled Paterra
and Hogan wrestled Andre and Larry Russell. Berno remember that show?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well you know every time Hoger got in
the ring with Laundi, he was scared of Andrea. Andre
didn't like him.
Speaker 2: We hear different things because he certainly he certainly the
Hulk slam him a bunch of times and work with
them all around the world over and over.
Speaker 1: One million dollars personally. Why you let homeo beach here?
He said, they paid me a million bucks. Why don't
you think he liked Hogan? They had this thing that
were certain people like. I think it was the baby
all thing about that baby all yeah, Randon sad. But
he beat the crap out of around there. No baby
all right, and put on that baby all and we
knew right away he's gonna get beat up. He don't
get beat up. No baby.
Speaker 2: All of oil checks though, right.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He would lay your flat on your stumm and
take his thumb and ram it up your rectum.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, did that ever happen to you, Tony?
Speaker 1: No, he liked me. Oh he don't get to guys.
He didn't like you. I know we're talking about the hold,
but let me tell you this about all that. Andre
loved me to death, hearing the reason why. We One
day was measuring our biceps in the dressing room and
Andre was setting at the table playing cars, with on
the scolding in them. You always played call rugby whatever
they're called up some type of game vision to play
card that they were playing the brot the pant board.
It was got a pant board that would move the
little pin in the hole, put them in the hole.
Cribbage privilege, crimmage. That's it. They playing cribbic. But anyway,
I said, I want to measure on. So I put
the tape around andrea arm relaxed. Now it was in flexing,
just relaxed. They were twenty two and a half inches around.
I measuring my bicet. My bicep were twenty three inches around. Yep,
I said, Andre, don't you wish you're was as big
as my home? We became the best of friends of
that day off.
Speaker 2: That's great.
Speaker 1: Always wanted to fit in, he told me one time
he felt like an animal in a cave. The longer
you don't, he said, A midget know that he's small.
He don't like when you call him shorty. He know
he's short. He said. I know I'm big. I don't
need to be told that I'm big, right, So I
just always tell Andre, and don't you wish it was
as big as me. Did you ask go to the
gym one time? He said, I'm big enough?
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I don't need to get any bigger, do you?
Speaker 1: Always? And you treat Andre like a normal person and
don't mention his size. He's your best friend. But the
moment you mentioned anything about his side you don't want
to do with you, you're alienating him.
Speaker 7: Yeah right, he told what the guy didn't usually driving
round him white, He's I would give up, he's a
I would give up all the money I would made
it been to be you for one day?
Speaker 2: Wow? Do you think that? Hult said his arms were
twenty four inches, so he could be one inch bigger
than you.
Speaker 1: Yeah? Really, but holdan, I was never as big as man.
Everybody to know that you would go to see pictures
and everything with me and him? Yeah, he never had
all the biggest biggest man.
Speaker 2: I think he was twenty one twenty nineteen.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three and a half oh, twenty three and
a half inch bicepo sixty in thirty two inch waist.
That's you, that's me? How about? How what do you
think Halt's real dimensions were? At least twenty two? Okay?
Speaker 2: Got it?
Speaker 1: At least twenty four. I don't think that did might
have been. See Holger was so tall, so I'm a
tall person. He alarm was much longer than man, So
it might have been because you know, he would he
would like six seven, you know. Yeah, when the person
sixty seven like him at three hundred pounds, he looked
skinny at three hundred. Yeah, see me at three hundred,
I look like a boat, you know, Sharman tank tank.
What came back from Japan the first time, Tony Alan
Puston was on about two hundred and forty five pounds,
But when you saw him, because we're on a five
foot eight at that point, I mean he looked like
he weighed three hundred and TV put twenty pounds on
you anyway.
Speaker 2: That's true, right, right, But Hoo got back from Japan
for the first time, Tony he had he had done
a lot leaner. Why do you think that was?
Speaker 1: Because what Japanese didn't eat all that junk food?
Speaker 2: Oh it's the food.
Speaker 1: Everything go down the food. You know, here's the burner king,
the McDonald and all that.
Speaker 6: In Japan.
Speaker 1: There's a lot of rice uh uh caren barbecue, everything
cook on on Theria it wasn't. The Japanese food is
not the same. All eat a lot of Charmi foods,
a lot of sugar Neck Charlie food, but not the
Japanese food. You need a lot of fresh fish, a
lot of fish. Yeah, Prus that trust. The matches was hard,
That's right. Was another junk. There was the Jopanes. They
didn't really work. That was like a shooter fight the
most half shoot, half work, half shoot half work.
Speaker 2: I have to say, Tony, I always thought it had
something to do with the fact that you wouldn't be
comfortable bringing, you know, Diana Ball to Japan or you
have to come off a cycle to go over there.
Speaker 1: Right. Well, see home was big anyway, so he didn't
really need to go. And you call it, uh like
people don't believe this, but but but I tell him this.
If you had came down here, you could as solved me.
In fact, I'm gonna get somebody finish taller to have
me take a picture of me right now today, and
I'm gonna seen it to you. Okay. You see, when
we first got on the juice, at least with me
being a competitor, this what the doctor told me. The
body on it produce what it needs. So if he
was the mama, you take that first injection or you
pop that first pill. Your testicus are not working. You
shut your system down. Now, the doctor say you can
only stay on it for one month, six weeks at
the most. Some guy would push it to eight weeks.
But here's the thing about goal six to eight. Whatever
tam you was on, you have to lay off twice
the amount of tab that you was on in order
for your natural system to work properly. Yeah right, it
call them spare raw. If during the time you are thorough,
you only you only could get it up. You only
could do what you walk because of the artificial stuff.
You take it. Now, I would take it one month
before a power lift in me. I would take and
then I would take and then I would wait six
See now, after you get off, because a lot of
people don't know, it stays in your system for a month. Yes,
after you off. It's like pot. It stays in your system.
You take a month for your system to be clear
of it. So even though you took it for one month,
actually you've been on the juice for two months. You
follow me, I do so now that that that's been
in my system for two months. I have to lay
off four months before I could do it again.
Speaker 2: Yes, okay, yeah, because that's what happened.
Speaker 1: He went eight months without stopping. That's what messed him up.
Eight months long stock the student and when when we
got off, his natural system was so burnt out he
couldn't He did develop no more.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he got a lot smaller.
Speaker 1: His test his tests thro level is very low now strong.
So the body stopped producer test strong started taking it.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's that's wild. So you think he was able
to time time his his cycles to where when he
went to Japan he didn't lose size because he wasn't.
Speaker 1: Exactly he knew that. Yeah, yeah, he hadn't really long time. Yeah,
so the object was on you. You take a cycle
once every six months. That's the safe way of doing it.
But he probably did a little bit more because of
his transitioned, you know. But with me, that's how I
did it. It looks like he got much bigger for
Rocky three. I did it accordingly to the way the
doctor told me to do it, and I never had
a problem.
Speaker 2: Do you remember him getting a lot bigger before Rocky three?
Because he's huge in Rocky three, and he's not really
that big in wrestling in the month before that or
two months before that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, to see that, I realized, TV put another twenty
pounds on you. So if he three fought it on TV,
he's three sixty. I remember if you look at the
movie now, so he's going to all that Matt it
look bigger in the movie, then what he will looking
in real life? Phoebe all that madded put twenty pounds
on you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you do you remember Hulk talked about when he
first got to New York, they put him with Tony
Altimore so Tony Altimore could show him around and drive
him around. Do you remember that? What did Tony do
for Hulk?
Speaker 1: Well, see Tron it was what we called you pretty
much agent that he was an old school agent. What
Tony main jar was the students out every damn thing
you do? Oh just five.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: He's help he's helping them, probably probably with this guy.
So because the promoter couldn't travel with you, so they
don't know what you do in the hotel, they don't
know what to do with the balls, they don't do
all the time. They didn't know what you did when
you was in the arena, but outsident and in the promoter.
Promoters did not want to invest money into somebody that
was like, let's say if Hobo was a crackhead. When
they're not going to put the belt on this guy
because they said, you know, this guy could freak out,
that would hurt man dog sean able to help him,
say helm from him. But they knew he was wild
and crazy. The same thing with Aidan Adamas. They were
really not They didn't really do with Adan the dollars
and aided to beat me in rocket them for the belt,
you know, but they was always afraid to put the
belt on a but Adrie O'donalds or one of these
guys that is just out there. And I asked Gelle Scott,
I said, George, how come y'all know so much about me?
He said, who you ride with? Wow? Ill thinker. Yeah.
They had stoogs to him that he was a student.
So his dog was to report back to the office
everything hold and do as.
Speaker 2: Say, that's fascinating. It makes sense, it really does. And
I wonder if you remember this, Tony. Shortly after Holk
got to New York, he got there in November seventy
nine January of eighty, him and the Samoans were driving
on a highway in New Jersey and got arrested. Holk
was arrested for a possession of a firearm that he
hadn't asked me. Yeah, what do you remember about all that?
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, but that's how I was in New York
if you carry a gun. But he got off. He
didn't get no child or nothing for her.
Speaker 2: He sure did. Yeah, it took a little while. We
were looking at some of the paperwork. But what do
you think that was all about? Why did he have
a gun?
Speaker 1: And well, all the wrestlers have guns. A lot of
guys had none. I see. Yeah here because did I
realize that we didn't have security back then? And so
you know, he com into New York City, you know,
from the guy from from Florida, you know, and you're
in New York City all all of a sudden, and
you carry a lot of money. True, Yeah, we didn't
have even guys we have three to five thousand dollars
on them. Wow, because we couldn't get to the bank
all the time. And you had a station parer. I
was stationed in uh uh uh in New York. Most
guys stayed in in handon Connecticut, right near Parkford. Uh
handing Connecticut a motion of rester of state backround live
in Harper. Some of the guys stayed in Palace of
New Jersey. But anyway, once you leave your house, it
might be a week or two before you get back
to where you at. We live in the cars in
the hotel, so that we go upstate New York. The
first trip was Flow, then Syracuse, then Rochester, then Utica,
then Troll. Then you hit uh uh hot hot I
mean yeah, Hawkers, be Mads and Square Garden. You're down
in Oldam doing TV. We worked seven days a week,
so you had to wait till you get back to
Connecticut to put your money in the bank. I want
to catch your check. So a lot of guys care
of guns. Monsoon had to use care of of gun.
I carried the gun. I had a three ft of
seamendum there you go, and you were a baby face
one too. We get we all did, and you were
a baby face attacked if you break up. When we
drove it, we didn't flyer to say they were territory,
so guys drove every way. It wasn't like we slew
everywhere like we did today. So what do you think
is gonna happen if you break down on the side
of one of them old Georgia road because you got
four thousand dollars on you and no protection.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember this, Tony, but you
know David Schals, Jesse Ventura. They've said over the years
that Hulk could be a way to get your hands
on some some drugs. He could be a connect for
some of that stuff. Do you remember that about Hulk
at all? That he was a guy you can go
to see.
Speaker 1: Here's the thing you gotta realize, there's nowhere on God
Green Earth. I'll tell you the real Huck Holgan right
a Holand gave me a rib. He just got through
ding TV and Holgan will give me a ribe, he said, Tony,
rib you can rib me said, I want to talk
to you. There's it, Holand now from me here with
friend and he dropped me off at this hotel called
the George Washington and with the same hotel where that
Chluka killed that girl in Allentown, Pennsylvania. And just before
I remember room he said, he tested me. Grabb not
to arm, he said, elizard to the kid, he said,
the old Tony Atlers I knew, I knew, worked out,
took care of business and did and got high a
little bit. He said that Tony, as I know now,
don't work out as much, don't take care of business
and get high too much. He said, I love him
too much, brother, for you just let that get in
the way of your career. For me, give me, he said,
I want my old friend doctor. He said, do that
for me. Hogan told me that straight out of his mouth.
I never forgot it. Wow, that'll tell you about Hogan
and a drug. See this guy was jealous of him.
They cured it better. See a lot of guys like
David Shooks on him down. They thought they were more
than what they were because old timer told me, never
believe your proplity. I was there when David Ship got
slammed to the floor by the police. But then they
handcuffed him all tied him because he wanted to fight MISCHIEFO.
He were pissed off as the team would fighting Hogan.
He wanted to be Withholder. How Keen killed my gimmick
that sable simmer. But he wanted to fight with Hogan.
Now they put him with me instead of Hogan. He
did you formed me of nath.
Speaker 2: Hogan, George Gray, you're talking about yeah, yeah, yeah, they.
Speaker 1: Brought me the Simmer. Me and Hawking was both to
be doing this big fat building for Ratsimania. So he
went in off there, I don't want to work with
and I will work with Hogan. And the same thing
with with with which whole him. He wanted to work
with Holan. He wanted him to shoot I angle with Hogan,
and they wouldn't let him go near Hogan. So so
you think that that he wasn't over that much. I
mean he wasn't here no bit. He wasn't have a
big style of freaking w w F. You know that
for sure. So so Hulk had. Hulk had no reputation
as a big drug guy. Not really. I mean if
this guy did it held a lot more thing he
did what they did with the Holder. You see, if
Holger got highed one night, they would build it up.
Speaker 2: Are they making a bigger deal than it was compared
to other wrestlers.
Speaker 1: Exactly because they was all jealous of hem. They were
jealous he was a young kid making more money than them,
and move. These guys been been a ten years more
than holder, and they all fled. They should got that
break knocked him. They say, here are the reason he
champion because of the movie. Think about it. They were
not using hope, but they made that movie. And then
it come come to the movie. The first day in
make him champion. The first day they you know they
Anna Marshall went through that freaking dressing room back of
the shoes to drop the belt to him. Back I
said that guy ain't paid his dudes, I mean putting
the belt on him. He never pay his dues in
this business. That was all about you. This guy went
to the top in one day. Bo. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean the basic story, right is that Hulk said,
if you're not going to put the belt on me
day one, then I'm.
Speaker 1: An all the guy will wait around thinking that they
gonna get the belt and then vin bringing me in on.
They wanted to put the belt on, and the fricking
dressing room work nuts did they? Oh? They were so
freaking mad and angry avanced. I thought they won't do
that with me. How come they don't put the belt
on me? Blah blah blah blah. I'm hear that ship
all the time. Who you told me that they do
you try to get me to to to go fuss
at Vincent? Yeah, Tony, they should putting the belt on you.
He didn't put the belt on you cause you black,
get you worked up. Yeah. I tried to get me
all worked up going off it and then fuss about
in them something like I said, nor was it they
put the belt on this? But he was sebout everything
a minute. Then after he's the most popular rest in
the world right now because of the movie.
Speaker 2: Sure, Tony. Who were some wrestlers that were most upset
that they gave Hulk the belt right away? Who do
you remember?
Speaker 1: Well, I do not do no, David One. He made
it very very clear because he felt that they screwed
him anyway, told him to slap that. You guy. He
was stupid enough, David one.
Speaker 2: Anybody else?
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was stupid enough for fall front and slapped
that uh yeah, yeah, And then he got patting on
the back the day he did it. I remember, Pam
out a good job, David, protecting the business. You are
protecting the business, and they were the lawsuit came down
the ship canter is.
Speaker 2: At that's right. Yeah, that's well documented. Anybody else besides
David Schultz that was mad that Hulk got the belt
on the first.
Speaker 1: Night, whoever was in the territory of that chair.
Speaker 2: Okay you remember, yeah, you don't remember who was trying
to get you worked up?
Speaker 1: Uh?
Speaker 2: Who of all people? Really?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, he was telling me, you were telling me? Yeah, yeah,
you know, so they they would have put that bump
on you if it was him black several now who
were telling me stuff like that? See, Hold, The main
thing was just jealousy. They were just trying of jealouship
of him because he got so much so quick.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he broke in his seventy eight.
Speaker 2: Well that's interesting because you know, certainly certainly is not
expecting the belt. So maybe he's carrying water for somebody else,
you know, trying to start ship for somebody else.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, all them guys, you know, you know,
I listen him talking the calls and and stuff like
that about about Holder. You know why they put the
book on him, you know. And Holgan was smart. He
didn't hang with the boys. He was not what to
call one of the boys. What do you mean he
didn't have Yeah, well, he didn't go out he didn't
go out to the club with the boys. He didn't
go out to Hoba did everything in his room to
get room service. Yeah, yeah, get rooms. I went to
your room. He had a hell of us friend he
would have Yeah, he would have all the cold cuts
on the table, the crew. Then they have the in
the bathtub. They would have all the beer and wind
all ice down in the bathtub and stuff like that.
He would invite certain guys up. They would have a battle.
They smoke weed, they have a battle way. The guy
would go up to hogan room, reparted, but Hogan would
not go down to the ball or hang out with
the boy.
Speaker 2: Now was this after he won the belt or is
this in eighty one and eighty always like that?
Speaker 1: Always? Yeah, because he knew to stay away from the wrestler.
Speaker 2: Yeah, makes sense.
Speaker 1: Restlers are not friend they business associating. Holda was smart
enough to know that every wrestler there's his competition. I
was a jock. I didn't know that, so I trusted
the boy. I try to be one of the boy.
Will you try to be one of the boys. The
boy's going to screw you cause that's what they want
you around floors and they trip you up.
Speaker 2: Love it.
Speaker 1: Ogo was never a dumbit. It was always smart. And
what he did? You take with another quick start? I
hit more one year for the same year they had
the super Bowl. I just know where the super Bowl,
and Vince decided that he's going to run a show
the same night at the super Bowl. When we get
to the building with more more were thirty people there?
If not, so Vince counseled the show. This is Vince
Junior not seeing it. He counselor show. So we sat
there watching the super Bowl and a commercial come on,
a right Guard commercial, and they're gonna huff Hogan standing
there painting the picture doing the right Guard commercial. Vince
dropped his glass, but he was drinking. They said, I offered.
I tried my best to get a spot and couldn't
get it. He didn't know Holman did that. I see, wow,
Hold up everything, Hold there. Hogo was very very business.
Uh what I want to say?
Speaker 2: Oriented yeah, yeah, yeah, that's that's fast. I didn't know
he didn't know about the right Guard thing.
Speaker 1: No, what about a lot of stuff? A lot of
stuff Holman got himself. See, Homer started writing his own
chick because they treated him like ship at the beginning.
Then Senior came in one day, the rough we came in,
told me to say.
Speaker 2: Do what you want to do with the big dummy,
the big dummy.
Speaker 1: Wow, to do what you want with the big dummy.
Speaker 2: Why would you call him a dummy?
Speaker 1: They had this thing that Kate had been big and
smart too. It was just another culture thing of America.
I see, okay it was. It wasn't particular yet. So yeah,
even if they had interviews on me, you could hear
Greg Brontes, you totally the total. You may have big,
big muscles everything, but you ain't got no brain.
Speaker 2: I see what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Okay, there was Yeah, that fit in an old American culture.
You couldn't be big and strong and smart too. That
git didn't go.
Speaker 2: What did you think about ed Leslie? He was hanging
around with Hulk in the very beginning. What did you
think about their relationship? Who ed Leslie future Brutus Beefcake.
He was hanging with Kulk all the time.
Speaker 1: I hear different. I was not around them, so I'm
gonna to speak on them. But for what I hear,
it didn't turn out.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, long term, Yeah, I just feel like when
he was there in eighty and seventy nine and eighty one.
At certain points ed Leslie would come up to and
and hang around with him because they had worked together
in Memphis. They knew each other back home in Tampa.
Speaker 1: Stop to think about this now, when Holden left, what
happened with them guy's career?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well that's right, that's yeah, that's.
Speaker 1: Why I'm saying it was. See what rastle. There's a
lot of jealous envy. I've found out later about the
jealous embassy for for George animals Field. I said, George,
how come we like and get along with each other
so much? Now? He said, easier kids, No more ego,
No more ego. See, you can't be a top performer
if you don't have a big ego. That coming. That's
why you're a big start. You've got a big ego.
So if anybody starting to move ahead of you in
any kind of way, see wrestlers and our friend their
business associated. Hear you on that one. So once a
guy slarted moving up the ladder, then somebody gonna move
down a lot, like Christal pas Walkley told me, because
they had a limit how many black wrestlers. They could
that they were having a territory. He said, as soon
as I walked through the door, he said, he knew
that he lost his job. He told me that, he said, Trono,
I see you come to the door. He said, I
knew I lost my job.
Speaker 2: That's too bad.
Speaker 1: If they hold Yeah, the sue Hober hit that door.
So you have to tell me if there's an all
shoe because if one person's own enough room. A car
tour is like a car. There's only so many seats
in that car. Yeah, and so when one restler come
into the cartar, they know somebody's leaving.
Speaker 2: We started talking about Georgia. Stan Hansen was there at
the same time, and then, of course Hulk and Stan
went on to be a big tag team in Japan.
Why do you think Hulk, Covid and Stan Hansen got
along so well?
Speaker 1: Well, shee because there was on the same side. There
was on the same side in Japan. In Japan, everybody
team up to them. You get real close to another country, Yes,
everybody get real close in Japan because Japan, the American
is always a heel. There's no babyface America's in Japan,
right right?
Speaker 2: I had seen that Stan worked with Hulk in Georgia
at the Omni in Atlanta in seventy nine before they
went to Japan.
Speaker 1: Hoba loved Stamp because Stan was like his.
Speaker 2: Protection, his protection.
Speaker 1: How so Stam Hanser was big, rugged and tough that
could whoop just about anybody. But yeah, that's my soul.
Sam was a big throng rugged you know, he was
the real deal. Himber, the guy like Harley Ray Street Hansler.
These guys would beat the hell out of you and
they said whoop just about anybody that drue and broaded.
You know. They were just big rugged guys. Hogo was
not a street fighter. These guys were. And so what
happened was when you go to Japan, you go to
these countries. I used to hang around to Aaron Sheep
that was my runner in Darn Morocco. He was my
running budd. It's in you. You stayed the gun life.
I want to go destroy get something the Sheik and
Morocco would go with me. If Hoga want to go
get something, Stam would go whoop me. So you're getting
real close where you're in a farm country. Because see
novel soccer, the guy usually drive the bus and he
told me one time, he said, I like you, but
I don't like I don't like Americans. I see. I said,
that's what you guys tell me. I got a picture
of him. The name was Peter. He drove the bus
and he said, I like you, but I don't like America. Yes,
And I said why not? He said, my father was
one hundred miles away when he dropped the bomb and
he melt it. He melt it in his shoe.
Speaker 2: Oh jeez, that'll do it.
Speaker 1: That's what the guy told me. His father melt in
his shoe. He was one hundred miles away. And I said, well, well,
I'm an America. He said, not to them, you are,
I see, because I was black. He didn't consider me
as Paul America. That help what he felt, you know.
And so when we go over seas, I went to
break and all these trays said we were bombed. We
didn't let him a bomb, but we had to look
after each other. When you're in a foreign country, we
hulk always. But he talked about going to Japan in eighty.
When he started. He would always say, you know, I
was single back then. He always says single. I know.
Speaker 2: He had a couple of girlfriends out there. Did you
ever see Hulk kind of living it up in Japan?
Speaker 1: Well, I would know Holman being like a one woman man. Okay, yep,
the Holder right know, he's always stuck with one uh sure,
one one woman. He didn't like all the mess of
the law because I think I think he was homophobe.
I'm not homophone, but durma jerremophobic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, interesting, yeah, yeah yeah yeah your paranoim.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, he'll he'll burke clean. You know some girls,
these girls definitely to call him Arina rat. They would
go to your room, Do you go to my room?
Do me go to Holer room? They would do two
or three guys that night without washing. I mean it
was fun. It was was wild. Back then we come
to the sex far, so you had to be real Casso.
There was a lot of guys came back with diseases
and stuff. The last day Holder wanted to do is
go over there, Casser fucking deserve especially when you overseas.
I mean, come on, now, you oversee they don't have
the same stuff that we do. That when I was
in Africa, the last thing I want to do go
to be one in Africans got it? Got it?
Speaker 2: Did you?
Speaker 1: What did you say? You live in a mud hunt?
Do you think I'm going to bed with you washing
yourself in a foot tub? You think I was no
dog in the housing? I'm gonna go to bed rick?
You right right? Did I mean you crap? Crept the
banana tree? You want me to have seck with? Got
you the banana tree? Though?
Speaker 2: So Tony, when Halt took off in eighty four and
he got the belt and he it was this worldwide superstar.
What were your thoughts you worked with him when he
first came to New York in nineteen eighty and nineteen
eighty one, What did you think when you saw this
guy become the biggest wrestler ever.
Speaker 1: I loved it, we all all. I hope I'll be
on the same call as him, of course. Yeah, I
mean I was on a call with Holgum. I was
making eight nine thousand dollars a week, incredible money. Yeah,
before I was making twenty five thirty five hundred a week.
Speaker 2: Did it make sense to you that he could draw
like that considering you know the whole gun he used
to know?
Speaker 1: Like I said, it was just something about him that
people just I mean they wanted to see the hunks,
I mean Hawk Maleia wrestling business is what it is
now because of two people. Two people haulk Hogan and missed.
But man, we wouldn't have worked with anybody else. It
was a perfect It's something that comes around once in
a while, like a Muhammad al league. I mean, Tryson
came close, but nothing like our league. You know that,
like Larry Bird, I mean you know these certain guys,
they just come along maybe once every hundred years. You
get a guy like that that would have that type
of ability and to set up to bring that sport
to a top level.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, and so you.
Speaker 1: Know he just he would hit the hit.
Speaker 8: And you know who's the main thing that that the
Mainhoven Andre No, the.
Speaker 1: Al tootal hamincause Iron Sheik. Yeah, no, he held American
hostygen I was there when to put the belt on
the street. You know what then bigger fear was keeping
him alive. Yeah. The Sheet is the first wrestler to
have bodyguard, the first wrestle they have body God. They
had a hard time getting him in out of the arena.
People wanted to kill him. And when Hogan beats him,
that night, brother, the place has exploded and it and
they stayed and they stayed at that level for what
ten years? Twenty years? Almost it exploded. We left. We
couldn't do TV in doll Intown no more. We had
to go to the Silver sum and just to do
TV for Kipchick.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: We didn't do arenas anymore. We didn't do small vineas anymore.
I mean everything was was Colosseum, then Simmer the stadiums.
We had to go to rest Ma had to go
to the stadium.
Speaker 2: Amazing.
Speaker 1: I mean the career, what a story that Tony Allison
a bum went off of something because of this guy.
You guy was on everything Talk showed the whole world
was talking about Uncle Mania. Yeah it was.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to get there as we go through
his career. But last question for you, Tony, we asked
this of everybody, we have one to talk about Hulk.
What was your reaction when you found out that he
had passed away?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Did we lose him? Tony? There I heard a beep.
He probably killed the cell phone. Maybe he didn't want
to answer the question.
Speaker 1: But anyway, can you hear me now?
Speaker 2: Yes we can, Tony I'm very sorry. Did you hear
my last question?
Speaker 1: See what happened that the sheep? What the first profile
is selling out there? Bet everybody want to see the
sheep get beaten, right right? So they did? They are
uh definitely go back a little bit. It almost not
has happened because back Onam refused to drop the belt
to Hogan. What they had to take the belt off
of off of Backham and show what they did? They
had They put the Aaron Sheek in against Backham to
get the belt off of back Rum when Bakla did
not want to do it. So it had never happened
in wrestling before the card number one gave you know
how they got the belt off of Backrum through the
towel end without telling Bobby each Why didn't Bob want
to lose the belt to Hult Here he paid his due?
Speaker 2: Oh, for God's sake, he wrestled with him the nineteen
eight hundred times.
Speaker 1: Got just how. That's how the old towners learn, That's
just how they were. See, I did not like losing
to anybody that can beat me in real life. Okay,
that's how we were. But we had this idea that
I put you over in the rain and you go
out to the local bar and the local bouncer beat
you butt. That hurts me because I just put you over,
got it? See Hallow Race. I put Hallow Race over
all day long. But when some of guys like holding them,
they couldn't shoot. They were not shooter. And most of
the wrestled backs and old they will shooter. They was wrestler,
they were not. They were all tough guy. They going
to ball. Terry Funk got his reputation him and hollow
Race got from the rain the ball fights, bar fights, Yep,
that's right. They going to bar. They cleared the front
the ball, you know, one guy and run everybody out
the bar. Hallow beat up everybody in the bar. And
then the next days in the newspapers and the building,
this show up. That's how Rafter would say, Oh tistic
by getting invalled, fight, getting up people. Yeah, that's how
they did it. Fulka did that. He'd never proved of
him that he was a tough guy.
Speaker 2: Hulked up in real life. Yeah, well I should ask you, Tony.
You know, because Lufrignan came out an incredible hulk in
seventy nine, and that hulk comes along Terry gets involved
in the business and they basically make him, you know,
the Incredible Hulk. And then I noticed a lot of
your comebacks were kind of like Incredible Hulk. Did you
did you pattern anything you did in the ring after
the loof Forigno stuff? No, there it is, okay.
Speaker 1: I wrested by instinct. You see. The old time they
did that. We didn't comp anybody else for what we
would do. We would try and move in the ring
and if if the people buy, we keep doing it. Well,
I'll tell you something that I did that hold him
got from me. That putting the hand up to the ear.
That another one, Yet he got that from me. And
guess where I got it from? Where Dusty Road? I
saw dust due in the in the in the armory
in Atlanta, so I did it. I went to New York,
but Dusty got it from from the boat Politan. But
there was territory. There was no cable, so I could
do something in Georgia, and people in New York didn't.
Speaker 2: Say it right unless they had cable.
Speaker 1: But now you do something in order to see it
in Japan. So we so most stuff that we did
we saw like sputt the Monroe. Damn Raine cadillact man.
Def where Rick Flaird got that from spud the Monroe.
They were the first dam Raine cadillact man. It wasn't
it was sput the Monroe.
Speaker 2: Love it origins origins, We love it Tony Well.
Speaker 1: Nobody knew about sputting because he small territories. He never
made it like Mulla Muda was what it was. They
call her slave girl.
Speaker 2: Yes, slave Girlmla when she started yeah, the.
Speaker 1: Famine mo and then she started off which she was
his manager and spent in my role manager. But you
could do stuff in different.
Speaker 9: Territory like we'd hope of the hope of the dud
an interview in uh, North Carolina could call me a
brown monket, but that interview.
Speaker 1: Would not fly in New York.
Speaker 2: In New York, right, that's it?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, what what was What was your thoughts when he
left in eighty one? What do you remember about him
leaving the territory?
Speaker 1: You mean we went winter arn? Yeah, you talk about
hold them.
Speaker 2: Right, Hogan? Yeah, yeah, when he left because you were
his last opponent in New York in that run, you
he beat you beat him twice in the garden.
Speaker 1: You beat him in the spectrum, and we were kind
of disappointed because I was hoping to work with him,
like I told, but Tom and Rich try to get
him to uh to do hang with me and Hope
and then only just wouldn't go for her. Yeah, we
were nobody, Yeah, we were. We were disappointed because we
figured we could have made some money with him.
Speaker 2: Do you remember when he left Vince the first time,
Vince Senior being thinking you'd never see him again.
Speaker 1: Or that's what we all thought. I mean you would
until he made that movie. Yeah, nobody really be armed
with that paid him in an attention.
Speaker 2: Interesting.
Speaker 1: He was not a wrestler. He was not that good
as a wrastler. He didn't do wrestling. Move think about
him wrestling.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm doing it right now.
Speaker 1: Everything standing up, Everything is standing up. Nothing on the mat,
very little, very little. That's what the rest these guys was.
They look at things from a wrestler point of view only.
And that's why Vince Senior never US holder because Bob
Backman was a rastler.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, big contrast.
Speaker 1: But the world changed and the wrestling board the crap
out of the fan. They were getting bored with. Let
me and Kim Boteroll, for example, we raise a whole match,
and that's what we did, the whole match ahead lock.
The people are bought in there. I mean we used
to get a hope and the job, and then you
could work a hope for ten to fifteen minutes. Yeah,
the by hub, he fight to get out of the
bay hud, the guy lift mom or drop off lift
moarm drop off fat. I hit him, I hit him
my head, but I get out of the bay hub
and then all of a sudden, I'll go over to
get him. He raked mind took me back to the
bay Hood. People got bored with old the old school
wrestling because it was a different generation of people. See
the guys that trained me, they came out of the sixties,
the fifties and sixties. Yes, the guy that taught me
so my Motalitian was wrestling in the sixties and the
fifties and sixties. Now I met Johnny Weaver. He was
in his forties, he'd been wrestling for twenty years. You know,
claud Might, Bill Jack Mulligam. Them guys started in the sixties.
Speaker 2: Totally different mentality, right.
Speaker 1: So Rake Flower came along in the seventies. Old in
reality didn't come along to the eighties. He saw it
in the late seventies, and it was almost the eighties
was coming along and the whole came into business. For sure,
I saw it. I started in the seventies, So the
motality of the building was totally totally different than the
eighties and definitely than nineties. About nineteen ninety, guess what
the fans didn't like? No more.
Speaker 2: Wrestling? Oh no Hulkgan, Mike Tyson, No, no Steve Austin,
the good guy ah oh chure speaking of Steve, Yeah,
the anti hero, Adam true Earl.
Speaker 1: Nobody liked the good guys in the good Guy was born.
They didn't like him. They called ball back with how
do the duty? How the duty? Why do you back?
Home of turned heel w w c's w.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well we all saw that play out. Absolutely we're gonna.
Speaker 1: Get there, the home of Repino being a business man
that people did not like good guys in the boat.
So what if everybody became a bad guy, it just
worse and worse, worse and worse.
Speaker 2: Well, it's had a great tour through the history of
the business, Tony, we got a lot more than we
bargained for I want to ask you one final question.
It was the one I asked when we lost our
phone connection there. What was your reaction when you heard
that Hulk Cogan had passed away?
Speaker 1: I cried, Oh did you really well? See? I just oh,
I just drew a picture of him. So he got baptized,
and I mailed a picture to him, and then I
sent him some coffee. I asked him when he signed
the coppage for me, and he signed the coffee, and
uh saw him back Timmy and me and him we
talked and then he thanked me for the what I
said about him about his daughter. That he's trying to
protect his daughter because the guy Oga knew, the guy
who would try to use his daughter to get close
to him. Once he found out, once he found out
that that uh that uh, he couldn't get close to Oga,
he dropped that woman like a bad habit. He's not
with her now, the black guy, he's not with her now,
right right, correct, exactly because and and Rastler knew that
a lot of guy would try to be with your daughter,
get with you because he's famous and witch, you know,
so he saidured that he did. He's gonta Tragnan and
once he gets a friend him, but he's set hober
gonna take care of him for that woman. And what
he was thinking, Yeah, Holga been around the block. Ober
knew a bad guy for his daughter. Goodness. Yeah, had
nothing to do with his nationality because me and Hogan
we talked, there's black people and then there's niggas. Okay,
so Hogan that would he was not a black.
Speaker 2: Man, Okay.
Speaker 1: He was one of these guy that tryed to spunge
off of Coogan and Holger knew that if it was
the white guy, Homer had a name for him to
do that too, not doing had not do it his
for his your sir, and the way Hoga felt that
this guy was not the best guy for his dog,
for his daughter. He had angered him, then his daughter
would not listen to him.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this comes up in the context of him passing away.
Speaker 1: How Yeah, well, he's thank me for for standing up
for this was three weeks before he died. I talked
to him three before he died. Wow, but you always
called me call me after I need anything. He got
mad at me where I was homeless because I didn't
call him. Yeah, I said, hold on, I didn't have
no fall I was doing. He said, brother, if you
other need something, you should have called me brother. He
didn't call me brother. He said, I'm so kissed at
you for not calling me. He said, when I hear
that about my brother. Another time, I was in uh, Florida,
and I went into the hold doing all of thatps
and I went in and said hi to him, and
one guy say hey, I got lucky. He said. I
came here hoping I see one legend. I end up
seeing two over you and Tony ad He said, Brother,
I don't see Tony Adlers as a legend. I see
him as my friend. Say so, I see holding as
my friend. So I can see why you.
Speaker 2: Hear about.
Speaker 1: We started to gotta mean Tommy Rich. You know, we
were like it was like a family. And Huldan always
looked after me. He never did me wrong, number talk
bad to me. We would talk about anything, and if
I got in trouble, he would pull me over the side,
said brother, let me tell you this, do that that,
and and people say he's racing. He put his life,
his career on the land for Coco. B were Coco
beat up an agent. There's fire co Cooke Holgo went
to the office. He said, if if Coke Coo B
were a lead, I'm leaving true Coco is a black man,
sure is? You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we talked to him. I don't remember mentioning this,
but that's wild. What what agent was it?
Speaker 1: Uh? He was he used to be a hockey player
Jimmy staud I thought Jim Troy story. Okay, yeah that
he was kind of a Jim Yeah, something like that.
You can play hockey.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's a TV executive for Vince Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. But see, it didn't start with him and started
with Sean Michaels. Right. Yeahko went over to break it up,
and he turned on Coco. See, Coco was not involved
in the fighting. It was sewn Michael. Sewn. Michael couldn't
walk away up a wet paper bag. So so so
so the bar tend to go over around. The boss say, hey,
these guys getting ready to fight, and you go there
and break it up. So Coco went over to break
up the fight ended up in the fight. See see.
But but but then Hopah stood up for him. He
stood up for me too. Wow. Yep. When I came back,
if they wanted to fire me minute, he said, he said,
let me talk to Tony. Hey came and talked. They
told me that story that I just told you about
the old Tony Adams and a new tone happen and
Mans wanted to let me go then, and hope he
talked him out of it.
Speaker 2: So those are the things you think about when when
he won.
Speaker 1: For a lot of people, well, Holo was the type
of guy he would do something, but not go around
bragging a body. Yeah, so he did a lot that
people didn't know because he kept it on the rack.
Speaker 2: Very very interesting stuff. Tony, thank you so much for
taking us into your memories of Hulk, working with him,
knowing him so personally. I didn't appreciate how close you
were with him.
Speaker 1: And we've put down Holger. Put this down for Holger,
for this is the real Hobo. Hobo neil for God,
stand for the flag. His belief is God country and Seth.
So if the three were Deshrine is God country and.
Speaker 2: Seth sounds like an American Fourth of July to me,
Thank you, mister USA. Tony at Well, that was him.
Speaker 1: That's all that I knew for what fifty years, I've
never seen anything differently what I told you.
Speaker 2: We can salute that mister USA, Tony at let's kind
enough to join us to reflect on Hulk Hogan. Thank
you so much.
Speaker 1: Shameel Copper that paper when you're writer.
Speaker 2: Now, Oh, it's gonna be it's gonna be an audio podcast, Tony,
so you can listen to the whole thing.
Speaker 1: Oh okay, well you gotta tell me how to hear that.
Speaker 2: And yeah, well we'll try to get you the link.
So you just tap it on your phone and you
should be able to start hearing it.
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna have my buttons to say to take
a picture of me so you can see what I
look like.
Speaker 2: I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know I'm a black guy, right, Yeah, that
came That came up a couple of times. I thought,
I'm more surprised you with it.
Speaker 2: Okay, you all the best to you, Tony. Take care, thanks, Tony.
Speaker 1: Okay, all right, please a production on the Lab Entertainment Group.
It's content is intended for breven use only.