1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:20,519 Speaker 1: This Pet Life Radio. Let's talk pets. 2 00:00:22,920 --> 00:00:27,399 Speaker 2: Welcome to Aquariumnia. I'm your host, doctor Roy Yanaon, speaking 3 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,719 to you from the University of Florida iphis Tropical Aquaculture Laboratory. 4 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 3: Thanks for joining us. Planet. 5 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: Aquariums comprised of lush, sculpted underwater gardens or evoking natural 6 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,799 settings in nature are a thing of beauty, and experts 7 00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,399 in aquascaping are artists in their own right. My guest today, 8 00:00:45,799 --> 00:00:50,759 Chance Kramer, a longtime hobbyist and award winner in competitive aquascaping, 9 00:00:51,280 --> 00:00:55,039 has inspired many hobbyists with his beautiful aquaria. Join us 10 00:00:55,159 --> 00:00:59,200 as Chance shares his journey from hobbyist to aquascaping expert 11 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,640 and educator. We'll be right back after these messages. 12 00:01:05,719 --> 00:01:09,640 Speaker 4: You know the expression cats have nine lives? Well, what 13 00:01:09,719 --> 00:01:12,519 if you can give them one more? But give them ten? 14 00:01:12,599 --> 00:01:15,799 Movement is on a mission to help give cats an 15 00:01:15,879 --> 00:01:20,560 extra life. How with spae and neoter, spain or nootering 16 00:01:20,599 --> 00:01:24,359 your cat helps them live a longer, healthier life and 17 00:01:24,879 --> 00:01:29,120 it helps control free roaming cat populations too. Learn more 18 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:32,760 about the benefits of spee and neoter and meet Scooter, 19 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:37,120 the neutered cat at Give them ten Dot org. That's 20 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,079 give them ten dot org. 21 00:01:42,079 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 5: Let's talk pets on petlife radio dot com. 22 00:01:53,079 --> 00:01:55,719 Speaker 2: Welcome back to you a crimnia on pet Life Radio. 23 00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,000 My guest today is Chance Kramer, an award winning aquascape 24 00:02:00,239 --> 00:02:04,760 artist and lifelong aquarist. So, Chance, I always like to 25 00:02:04,799 --> 00:02:07,760 start these podcasts with kind of a little bit of 26 00:02:07,799 --> 00:02:12,120 a personal investigation into your early years. How did you 27 00:02:12,159 --> 00:02:16,280 first become interested in fish, nature and aquarium. 28 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,560 Speaker 3: Well, first, thanks for having me on. Basically, my whole 29 00:02:19,599 --> 00:02:23,439 life has been kind of derived from nature. I grew 30 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:27,680 up in a very nature rural area in the woods 31 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,800 of Laxahachi, Florida. So I mean I spent a lot 32 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:34,000 of time outside. I spent a lot of time in swamps, 33 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:38,240 just kind of being one with what was out there. 34 00:02:38,319 --> 00:02:40,840 So I mean nature. I was always always brought up with, 35 00:02:41,159 --> 00:02:43,280 spent a lot of time on boats and stuff like that. 36 00:02:43,599 --> 00:02:48,560 Aquariums came into my life when my mom actually she 37 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,039 got a goldfish tank and I kind of just got 38 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,080 infatuated with the aquarium and stuff like that, and then 39 00:02:55,280 --> 00:02:57,960 my own personal aquariums. I founded a turtle while I 40 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,719 was jogging. This is kind of like what really got 41 00:03:00,759 --> 00:03:03,400 me deep into it. I found a turtle I was 42 00:03:03,439 --> 00:03:06,919 jogging one day, I was like fifteen sixteen, and I 43 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,879 took it home and got them his own little tank, 44 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,360 set them up, and started putting plants in there with them, 45 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:15,159 because I read turtles like to eat plants. So I 46 00:03:15,199 --> 00:03:17,360 went to peck Go, bought some cheap plants, threw them 47 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:19,599 in there, and he devoured them. I went back and 48 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,080 I bought more, and I planted them down this time 49 00:03:22,120 --> 00:03:24,280 and he didn't eat them, and they started to grow. 50 00:03:24,319 --> 00:03:28,639 But I noticed as they grew, their whole morphology changed 51 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,039 everything about them, the way they looked originally to the 52 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:33,039 way they looked now, and that interested me a lot. 53 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,360 So that really started my deep dive into plants and 54 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:41,639 the whole aquarium world is just watching that change that happens, 55 00:03:41,680 --> 00:03:45,680 that transformation from immerse aquatics to submerge the plotucts, and 56 00:03:45,719 --> 00:03:47,280 that really caught my interests. 57 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:50,479 Speaker 2: Cool, So you started out by having something eating your 58 00:03:50,479 --> 00:03:52,759 plants before you realized that you could actually let them 59 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:53,759 grow and kind of. 60 00:03:54,039 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and spent a lot of years learning what 61 00:03:57,199 --> 00:03:58,000 eats the plants. 62 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 2: That's funny, son. Yeah, So you mentioned that was your 63 00:04:02,159 --> 00:04:05,360 very first tank. What was your maybe first fish tank? 64 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:06,840 Did you have a fish tanks after that? 65 00:04:07,199 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, like shortly after I got the turtle, uh you know, 66 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,919 once I noticed that the plants were growing, I uh 67 00:04:14,159 --> 00:04:16,319 you know, I got the turtle a bigger enclosure and 68 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:18,759 moved him out, and then I just decided I was 69 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:20,920 going to keep a bunch of different plants. So I 70 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:23,000 went back and I bought a whole bunch of different 71 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,680 plants and a few fish. I think my first like 72 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:30,040 personal fish were actually oscars, which leads into another fish 73 00:04:30,040 --> 00:04:33,360 that eats plants. So I got I got some oscars, 74 00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:35,120 and they were they were in there with my plants 75 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,959 for a while and they were peaceful, and eventually they 76 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,240 shredded them up. And then it just evolved from there. 77 00:04:39,319 --> 00:04:43,040 I went from the mdograamis to tetros and you know 78 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:44,319 everything in between. 79 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,160 Speaker 2: So I guess you're in Obviously you're doing incredible things 80 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:50,000 with plants. So do you still have a fish room 81 00:04:50,319 --> 00:04:51,839 or do you are you know, do you just mainly 82 00:04:51,879 --> 00:04:54,199 do plants? You kind of have combo with your sort 83 00:04:54,199 --> 00:04:54,920 of current setup. 84 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:58,560 Speaker 3: I do both, So I work full time at my 85 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:02,839 Beyonce's fish store, Badfish, Tropical Fish. So I'm surrounded by 86 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,079 I'm actually as we're doing this right now, I'm surrounded 87 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:08,800 by probably like five thousand gallons worth of tanks. And 88 00:05:08,839 --> 00:05:12,240 then at my oh I have a whole gallery setup 89 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:14,000 where I do where I keep all my works, my 90 00:05:14,399 --> 00:05:17,040 aquascapes and such, and then I have a little rack 91 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:21,279 for breeding. Breeding used to be my priority early hobby, 92 00:05:21,319 --> 00:05:24,879 and now it's shifted more towards the art and aquatic plants. 93 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,639 And I also have greenhouses that I grow these guys, 94 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:30,839 the plants, and I grow them immersed and greenhouses as well. 95 00:05:31,560 --> 00:05:33,160 Kind of all in no, that's great. 96 00:05:33,439 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 2: So before we get into the weeds on aquatic plants 97 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,959 and aquascaping, just a few more questions. How did I 98 00:05:38,959 --> 00:05:42,439 guess you get interested in kind of the business end 99 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,800 of it? And also you talked a little bit about 100 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,439 your early kind of forays into aqua scaping. How did 101 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,360 you kind of get into the whole aquascaping and then 102 00:05:50,399 --> 00:05:52,240 competitive aquas scaping as well. 103 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:56,279 Speaker 3: Aquascaping started when I stumbled upon this forum called the 104 00:05:56,319 --> 00:05:59,560 bar Report. I was trying to learn more about the 105 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:02,399 plants I was growing as far as nutrients, and the 106 00:06:02,439 --> 00:06:05,639 bar Repoard was started by Tom Barr, who at any 107 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:07,720 of you listening. Have heard of him or know of 108 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,319 him that you know a book? Why I decided to 109 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:12,560 learn from it? If you haven't, I would just give 110 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:18,040 his name a quick google. These extremely renowned aquatic horticulturalist. 111 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:20,720 Great guy. So I went on to his forum and 112 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,360 was searching for, you know, various nutrients and things that 113 00:06:24,399 --> 00:06:26,279 these plants needed to try to figure out what I 114 00:06:26,319 --> 00:06:29,319 was doing wrong. And I came across pictures of tanks 115 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,839 that were absolutely out of this world, and it blew 116 00:06:32,879 --> 00:06:37,680 my mind. I got immediately infatuated with the contrast and 117 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,680 the depth and everything along those lines. That just unlocked 118 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,839 something in my brain, and pretty much from that moment forward, 119 00:06:45,079 --> 00:06:49,040 my focus just dove into design and off escaping and 120 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,240 more of an art than actual the hobby end of it. 121 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,680 I went more towards the art and science and spent 122 00:06:55,720 --> 00:06:58,360 a lot of time there, But it was really just 123 00:06:58,519 --> 00:07:03,199 researching and finding, dumbling across these absolutely amazing tanks from 124 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:05,879 artists out of Japan and out of Korea and out 125 00:07:05,920 --> 00:07:08,959 of Europe, various places in Europe, and that's what really 126 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:10,839 got me, got me hooked on it. 127 00:07:11,199 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 2: So how did you kind of get into the business end? 128 00:07:14,519 --> 00:07:17,959 And I'm assuming like, you weren't doing aquarium sort of 129 00:07:17,959 --> 00:07:20,680 things before your major interest. 130 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 3: No, I'm a computer nerd, and it was just so, 131 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,560 you know, that's what I went to school for as computers. 132 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,199 But once I started growing the plants and you know, 133 00:07:29,399 --> 00:07:33,240 really learned what they need, they were growing so much, 134 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:35,680 and I you know, I was feeding extras to my 135 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,399 turtle still at this point, but I still had an 136 00:07:38,399 --> 00:07:42,920 abundance of plants. So I started on Reddit actually just 137 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,480 boasting some plants up for people to give away at first, 138 00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:49,399 you know, and then I came across the sales post 139 00:07:49,480 --> 00:07:51,399 for the same plants that I was giving away, and 140 00:07:51,480 --> 00:07:55,040 people were actually making an income, you know, off of 141 00:07:55,079 --> 00:07:57,199 the stuff I was giving away. So I was like, 142 00:07:57,240 --> 00:07:59,439 you know, I could use this to supplement my hobby 143 00:07:59,439 --> 00:08:01,720 a little bit. And so I decided I was going 144 00:08:01,759 --> 00:08:04,680 to start posting plants up for sale, and people were 145 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:07,279 eating them up. They really loved the plants I was growing, 146 00:08:07,319 --> 00:08:11,079 and so I sat up a whole other tank and decided, 147 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:13,720 all right, I'm going to go ahead and grow some 148 00:08:13,759 --> 00:08:17,639 plants to supplement my hobby. A little like probably six 149 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,720 months after that, I noticed that some of the plants 150 00:08:20,800 --> 00:08:23,160 were growing out of the top of my aquarium, and 151 00:08:23,279 --> 00:08:27,639 again their morphology has completely changed. They're now back into 152 00:08:27,639 --> 00:08:30,920 their immerse state. So that triggered that tease in my 153 00:08:30,959 --> 00:08:34,720 brain again to get me to want to grow these 154 00:08:34,759 --> 00:08:38,360 aquatics on land. So I got a greenhouse and started 155 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:40,879 learning all that fun stuff, and before you know it, 156 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:43,200 I had a whole I think that one was a 157 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,159 small and like ten by fifteen greenhouse completely blown out 158 00:08:46,159 --> 00:08:49,759 with aquatics. So I started a fictitious name a business 159 00:08:49,799 --> 00:08:53,320 and started, you know, selling plants online and group Facebook 160 00:08:53,320 --> 00:08:56,360 and other social media outlets, and it became a very 161 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:58,879 good supplement to my hobby and I kind of just 162 00:08:59,000 --> 00:08:59,519 ran with that. 163 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,120 Speaker 2: You also tell us, I know you work with or 164 00:09:02,159 --> 00:09:05,799 consult with Badfish. You're an ambassador for is it oas? 165 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,039 Speaker 3: Is that how you say it? Oasa aasa oasa? Sorry? 166 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:11,399 Speaker 2: And then what the apt tried and circle? 167 00:09:11,480 --> 00:09:13,759 Speaker 3: Can you tell us about that? Yeah? Yeah, So with 168 00:09:13,879 --> 00:09:18,120 Bad Fish I got involved with them. I was commissioned 169 00:09:18,159 --> 00:09:22,320 to do a palladarium in the store by the owner Alexa, 170 00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,639 and we had spoken a few times before it shows, 171 00:09:25,639 --> 00:09:27,639 and I've been into our store prior to that, and 172 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:29,919 we kind of hit it off and just had the 173 00:09:30,039 --> 00:09:32,879 chemistry and started talking a lot, and then I kind 174 00:09:32,879 --> 00:09:36,039 of always always liked the fish store scene and stuff, 175 00:09:36,039 --> 00:09:39,279 so I transitioned to end here after, you know, shortly 176 00:09:39,320 --> 00:09:43,639 after we started dating, and I started awkscaping tanks and 177 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:47,120 bringing plants in and stuff like that, and I really 178 00:09:48,039 --> 00:09:50,559 what grew on me the most was the customers that 179 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:52,480 come in the connection that I was able to perform 180 00:09:52,519 --> 00:09:55,480 with them, and helping them and achieve their aquarium goals 181 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,120 and helping them achieve the looks that they wanted to 182 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,639 have in their aquariums. So that really sparked me to 183 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:04,600 dive deeper into the bad fish side of things, and 184 00:10:04,639 --> 00:10:06,799 Alaza ties into it too, because it's kind of that 185 00:10:07,799 --> 00:10:10,720 same vibe. I got involved with the WAZA probably about 186 00:10:10,759 --> 00:10:13,080 six years ago now, and I was just at an 187 00:10:13,399 --> 00:10:16,360 aquarium show and I stopped by and was talking with them, 188 00:10:16,399 --> 00:10:20,039 and they knew of me, they knew of some of 189 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,919 the stuff that I've done, more so with the plants, 190 00:10:22,159 --> 00:10:27,200 and they were local. They actually had a headquarters probably 191 00:10:27,399 --> 00:10:30,600 five miles away from my house. So they invited me 192 00:10:30,639 --> 00:10:33,080 over to escape a tank in their gallery that they 193 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:36,600 had there, and the escape I did really impressed them, 194 00:10:36,639 --> 00:10:39,399 and they offered me kind of like a I guess, 195 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:42,759 a creative media partner puisition at first, and then it 196 00:10:42,960 --> 00:10:47,200 kind of transitioned into a full brand ambassador as of late. Yeah, 197 00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:50,720 and with APT, the Trident Circle member, that's kind of 198 00:10:50,759 --> 00:10:55,759 like a recognition that the owner, Xiaoshang Wong or Dennis 199 00:10:55,799 --> 00:10:59,840 Wong kind of puts out there for a querus that 200 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,720 he likes the quality of the stuff, that they do 201 00:11:02,879 --> 00:11:05,440 their work, the way they grow their plants, and he 202 00:11:05,519 --> 00:11:07,320 kind of puts that offer out there for folks to 203 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:10,000 be I guess brand ambassadors for his brand, as he 204 00:11:10,039 --> 00:11:13,759 calls it, a Trident Circle member. And basically all I 205 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,240 do for all of these companies is educate various clients 206 00:11:17,279 --> 00:11:21,279 on ways that they can achieve their goals and show 207 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,120 them that these products that I work with with Ouaza 208 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:27,000 and with APT and the plants and fish from Bad 209 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,279 Fish in general as well will make their lives easier 210 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,960 in this world of aquariums due to the fact that 211 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:38,039 they're easy to use, they're simple to establish and get going, 212 00:11:38,480 --> 00:11:41,679 and they really help bring out the full full function 213 00:11:41,759 --> 00:11:44,399 of the aquarium. So that's my main drive, I guess 214 00:11:44,399 --> 00:11:46,759 behind all three is just to get the word of 215 00:11:46,879 --> 00:11:50,240 aquascaping and grow the aquarium hobby gear in the United States, 216 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:51,960 just to kind of give back to it a bit. 217 00:11:52,240 --> 00:11:54,919 It's given me so much peace and so much tranquility 218 00:11:54,960 --> 00:11:58,039 in my life that I feel sharing this is kind 219 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,320 of where I'm at now to make other peop people 220 00:12:00,399 --> 00:12:03,799 have that same joy and pure happiness that I get 221 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:05,519 from the aquarium world. I guess I. 222 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 2: Should have had you mentioned for the listeners. So where 223 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,200 are you based? Where's Badfish? Where are you guys? 224 00:12:11,279 --> 00:12:14,600 Speaker 3: Badfish is in North Palm Beach, Florida. It is located 225 00:12:14,639 --> 00:12:17,559 off A one A, a nice, nice store, little store, 226 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:20,559 but we've got a lot lot packed in here from 227 00:12:20,639 --> 00:12:24,039 all sorts of types of artscapes for probably over two 228 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:27,240 hundred different species of plants. I can't even begin to 229 00:12:27,279 --> 00:12:29,440 count the amount of species of fish we keep in here, 230 00:12:29,559 --> 00:12:31,720 but you know it's it's a very very nice store 231 00:12:31,879 --> 00:12:33,639 and North Palm Beach, Florida. 232 00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:37,240 Speaker 2: Okay, great, thanks, So with that background, we should probably 233 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,639 dive into into the plants now. Kind of wanted to 234 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:42,519 have you sort of give a little bit of a 235 00:12:42,799 --> 00:12:46,600 primer for our listeners. I know, and I've had I've 236 00:12:46,639 --> 00:12:49,039 had some planet tanks which you know, you probably would 237 00:12:49,039 --> 00:12:51,919 have like maybe a smile that I was just happy 238 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:54,159 that the plants like survived. But can you kind of 239 00:12:54,159 --> 00:12:57,519 go into, uh, maybe some of the you know, a 240 00:12:57,519 --> 00:12:59,399 little bit of intro to the major groups. I think 241 00:12:59,399 --> 00:13:01,600 I mentioned to you or you know that I've had 242 00:13:01,679 --> 00:13:04,639 cryptocrines and a nubius, which are pretty hardy. But if 243 00:13:04,639 --> 00:13:06,480 you can kind of talk briefly about some of the 244 00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,159 major groups of aquatic plants, you know, and also I 245 00:13:09,159 --> 00:13:10,639 think in some you know, when I listened to some 246 00:13:10,679 --> 00:13:12,720 of your talks that you have online, you talk about 247 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:13,679 macro fakes as well. 248 00:13:13,720 --> 00:13:16,679 Speaker 3: Can you address some of that? Yeah, so I'll actually 249 00:13:16,720 --> 00:13:19,639 start there with the macro fakes because I believe, you 250 00:13:19,679 --> 00:13:21,320 know a lot of the listeners can get a lot 251 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:23,200 more out of this. But be you know, there's a 252 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:27,759 lot of plants out there that are sold as aquarium plants, 253 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,519 but they're they're not they're not true aquatics. They'll live 254 00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:35,840 short times submerged, but they won't live long term submerged, 255 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:38,399 and the reason for this is they're just not evolved 256 00:13:38,440 --> 00:13:40,720 to do that, or they never were at that point. 257 00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:43,879 And a lot of a lot of shops and nurseries 258 00:13:43,919 --> 00:13:46,600 and things along those lines will put these out there 259 00:13:46,639 --> 00:13:50,279 because they they will live maybe like two three weeks submerged, 260 00:13:50,399 --> 00:13:53,360 but they they will eventually die. And I call those 261 00:13:53,399 --> 00:13:58,879 guys aquatic mapro fakes mainly just for that they they're 262 00:13:58,879 --> 00:14:01,279 sold as aquatics, but they're not. But what I found 263 00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:05,240 is for every aquatic macro fake that there is one 264 00:14:05,279 --> 00:14:09,360 of them being called purple waffle. You guys can google 265 00:14:09,399 --> 00:14:12,600 it if you want. That one's a very common aquarium 266 00:14:12,679 --> 00:14:15,799 plant that you'll see in various big box stores and 267 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:18,039 stuff like that being sold as an aquatic, but it's not. 268 00:14:18,320 --> 00:14:24,080 It's a pernial terrestrial plant. But to substitute it, if 269 00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:27,720 you just search hype this lorenz and Tina, it looks 270 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,200 just like your purple waffle plant. That is a beautiful plant, 271 00:14:31,240 --> 00:14:33,799 but it's it's fully aquatic. It's a true aquatic. It'll 272 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:37,360 grow submerged long term forever if you let it, and 273 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:40,159 it'll always have its beauty and it's that color that 274 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,399 people like purple waffle. Fort So there's plants out there 275 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,200 that you can use to the supplement for these fakes. 276 00:14:46,519 --> 00:14:49,320 Then I guess to roll into the groups of things, 277 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:52,440 you know, these plants that I was just discussing the 278 00:14:52,519 --> 00:14:55,200 hypos lore Ofventina, they fall into the stem plant group, 279 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:58,679 and stem plants are probably the most common plants you'll 280 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:05,879 see being grown in aquarium. That's your lead Wikias, your rotalas, cogo, Stamens, Limnophila, Hygrophila, 281 00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:09,200 all of those guys are all stem plants, and all 282 00:15:09,279 --> 00:15:12,600 stem plants for the most part, will grow immers on 283 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,159 land and submerged on the water. That's kind of like 284 00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:18,679 the cool evolutionary trait that they have. So you can 285 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:21,519 take these plants that you find even on like a 286 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,720 dry hiking trail, as long as it said that species 287 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,240 a plant and put it in your aquarium and it'll 288 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:30,559 grow into a lush, beautiful aquarium plant. The other other 289 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:34,519 groups of plants would be like your epiphyts and rootofits, 290 00:15:34,519 --> 00:15:39,840 which is like your annubius and bucephalandra. Those guys, they're 291 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:44,759 a little bit more easy to grow, so less less intensive, 292 00:15:45,279 --> 00:15:48,759 much slower growing. They could tolerate lower lights. Stem plants 293 00:15:48,799 --> 00:15:51,399 are going to look their best in a higher light. 294 00:15:51,879 --> 00:15:55,120 CO two injected aquarium things like that to get their 295 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,080 full full worth out of them. But the annudius and 296 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,919 Bucephalandra and stuff can could be grown in a low 297 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:03,679 tech aquarium and kept very very nice. So I mean 298 00:16:03,679 --> 00:16:06,639 that's a good simple option as well as the crypto oreine, 299 00:16:06,639 --> 00:16:11,080 which falls under more of a rosette category. The rosettes 300 00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:15,000 would be like your econodorus and your cryptochorine. Aeriocalin could 301 00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:17,679 rows like a rosette, but you know it's more so 302 00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,639 in the grass area. But they those guys are all 303 00:16:21,879 --> 00:16:24,399 pretty easy to grow. Apart from aero kalin that one's 304 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:27,440 going to need some theater too. But all of these 305 00:16:27,440 --> 00:16:31,919 guys combined into escape really provide the look that I 306 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,360 believe what most people are going for, which is nature. 307 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,720 You know, and you do go into a river or 308 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:41,120 a stream or a lake or even I meant, you know, 309 00:16:41,519 --> 00:16:45,480 a brackish estuary. You're not going to just find one 310 00:16:45,519 --> 00:16:48,080 specie or one type of plant. You know, These these 311 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:51,320 plants are all dispersed together and you know, will growing 312 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,200 groups over here with a sprig of something you know 313 00:16:54,279 --> 00:16:56,440 of Valiscenaria coming out in the middle of a grouping 314 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:00,639 of Ludwigia repens. That's really what I believe people are 315 00:17:01,039 --> 00:17:04,039 looking to create, and I think they get stuck on, 316 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:06,559 you know, picking one grouping of plant, and if you 317 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:08,480 just kind of toss in some other groups in there, 318 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,359 it creates a full look and really builds that that 319 00:17:12,480 --> 00:17:14,000 nature aesthetic that people want. 320 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:16,839 Speaker 2: If you don't mind, like what would be kind of 321 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,359 maybe the appearance difference or biology difference between the like 322 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:24,160 the stem, the epiphyte, and the rosette you were talking about. 323 00:17:24,279 --> 00:17:26,240 Is it more kind of like where they come off 324 00:17:26,279 --> 00:17:28,759 the leaves come off the plant, or how would you 325 00:17:28,799 --> 00:17:30,400 sort of like differentiate those. 326 00:17:30,680 --> 00:17:33,160 Speaker 3: So a stem plant's going to grow off a stem, 327 00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,559 a centralized stem that's going to grow vertical. Typically some 328 00:17:37,680 --> 00:17:40,960 stems will creep and some stems will lean, but typically 329 00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:43,640 they're going to be growing vertical, and the leaves are 330 00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:47,000 going to come off either in a opposite formation where 331 00:17:47,039 --> 00:17:50,519 the leaves are directly opposite of each other on that stem, 332 00:17:50,599 --> 00:17:52,519 or they're going to come off in an alternating where 333 00:17:52,519 --> 00:17:54,920 you're going to have a leaf on the left side, 334 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:56,960 no leaf on the right side. It's going to skip 335 00:17:57,039 --> 00:17:59,119 down a node and then you're going to have another 336 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,880 leaf or grow in a whirl where the leaves basically 337 00:18:03,359 --> 00:18:06,359 are a world down the stem of like a spiral, 338 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:10,279 and those are the primary growth patterns of the stem plant, 339 00:18:10,559 --> 00:18:12,559 and they all you know, as I mentioned nodes and 340 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,839 stuff like that, all the leaves are going to be 341 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,599 coming from a node, which is a part on the 342 00:18:17,640 --> 00:18:20,359 stem that contains all the marristem, DNA and all that 343 00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,319 fun stuff to allow the plant to grow. And those 344 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,880 leaves basically are used as descriptors to classify or to 345 00:18:28,039 --> 00:18:31,119 describe these plants. So it's very important, you know, knowing 346 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:34,079 the alternating and opposite and whirl and stuff like that, 347 00:18:34,119 --> 00:18:36,119 because that's going to help you identify the plants to 348 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,160 make sure that you have what you are staying at. 349 00:18:39,359 --> 00:18:43,759 So they'll all grow in that pattern. Rosettes, as I said, 350 00:18:43,759 --> 00:18:47,319 like cryptochoreins and econodorus, they all grow from a centralized 351 00:18:47,359 --> 00:18:50,640 location of the plant, kind of like a crew I guess, 352 00:18:50,680 --> 00:18:52,960 towards the middle of the plant, and they'll the leaves 353 00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:55,440 will grow out like a rose. So you'll have all 354 00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,359 your older growth, older leaves will be on the outside 355 00:18:58,519 --> 00:19:00,599 of this plant, and all your newer growth is going 356 00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:02,920 to come from the center, so and they'll kind of 357 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,000 fold out like a rose, and that will be your 358 00:19:07,039 --> 00:19:13,400 econodorous various cryptochoreanes, some cryptochorins will grow more like a 359 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,359 valve scenario or a grass type and send runners and stuff. 360 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:18,960 But for the most part they are rosettes and be 361 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:23,240 a nubius and bu cep alandra, the rhodophytes and the epiphytes. 362 00:19:23,279 --> 00:19:26,960 Those guys, they all grow on like a rhizome, which 363 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,400 is kind of like an hard almost woody stem like 364 00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:34,559 feature that allows for the plant to send out its petoles, 365 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:37,880 which is that little piece that holds the leaf out 366 00:19:38,039 --> 00:19:41,680 is called a petole. And all of that comes off 367 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,000 of this rhizome and it creeps. It'll creep across hard escape, 368 00:19:45,039 --> 00:19:48,480 it'll creep across the substrate, you know, it'll it'll do 369 00:19:48,559 --> 00:19:50,920 all these things and eventually send off new heads from 370 00:19:50,920 --> 00:19:53,480 this rhizome. And you can snip these new heads, and 371 00:19:53,480 --> 00:19:56,160 that's how you would propagate it. It's just cutting a new head. 372 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,839 Vossble rhise and then moss. I didn't even speak to these. 373 00:20:00,279 --> 00:20:03,920 Moss is a profit, and moss basically is its own 374 00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:08,920 little animal. It grows ever ever more from a single 375 00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:12,480 strand and as various various heads and points. The morphology 376 00:20:12,480 --> 00:20:17,640 of moss it's crazy, So it's the taxonomy of its 377 00:20:17,720 --> 00:20:20,400 bro fights are a huge, huge, huge cross of plants, so, 378 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:24,240 but moss will kind of always stretch and kind of 379 00:20:24,240 --> 00:20:27,240 try to cover what it's doing or what it's growing 380 00:20:27,279 --> 00:20:30,359 on to have maximum exposure. Great. 381 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:32,559 Speaker 2: Thanks, I'm glad you mentioned that because I was actually 382 00:20:32,599 --> 00:20:35,480 going to ask you about moss, so I appreciate you. 383 00:20:35,599 --> 00:20:40,079 Speaker 3: Mentioning that, Yeah, moss is an animal, is weird. Thanks. 384 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 2: Let's take a short break and we'll continue our discussion 385 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:47,039 with my guest, Chance Kramer, aquatic plant and aquascaping expert. 386 00:20:47,079 --> 00:20:48,039 Speaker 3: After a word from. 387 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 6: Our sponsors, take a bite out of your competition. Advertise 388 00:20:54,079 --> 00:20:56,799 your business with an ad in pet Life Radio podcast 389 00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,960 and radio shows. There is no other pet related meat 390 00:21:00,359 --> 00:21:03,160 that is as large and reaches more pet parents and 391 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,680 pet lovers than pet Life Radio with over seven million 392 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,519 monthly listeners. Pet Life Radio podcasts are available on all 393 00:21:10,599 --> 00:21:14,839 major podcast platforms, and our live radio stream goes out 394 00:21:14,839 --> 00:21:19,359 to over two hundred and fifty million subscribers on iHeartRadio, Odyssey, 395 00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:23,079 tune In, and other streaming apps. For more information on 396 00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:26,240 how you can advertise on the number one pet podcast 397 00:21:26,279 --> 00:21:30,960 and radio network, visit Petlife Radio dot com slash advertised today, 398 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:34,799 Let's talk. 399 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:36,960 Speaker 2: Past let's done. PETO A Life. 400 00:21:36,799 --> 00:21:48,039 Speaker 7: Radio Hetline Radio petlfradio dot com. 401 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,799 Speaker 2: We're back and continuing our discussion of aquatic plants and 402 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,720 aquascaping with my guest Chance Kramer, aquascaping expert. 403 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,119 Speaker 3: So that's a really helpful I'm sure there's folks. 404 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:00,640 Speaker 2: Out there that maybe you weren't no of you know 405 00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:03,519 about the macro fakes and and I think the description 406 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,200 kind of the different types of plants you know, is 407 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:09,720 very very helpful. So I kind of wanted to dive 408 00:22:09,759 --> 00:22:12,319 in a little bit now into a little bit more 409 00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:13,519 about kind of plant keeping. 410 00:22:13,799 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 3: What would you. 411 00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:18,559 Speaker 2: Say, maybe beginning and maybe maybe intermediate hobbyists should know 412 00:22:18,839 --> 00:22:21,039 that they may not know about with regard to keeping 413 00:22:21,079 --> 00:22:23,599 plants alive kind of versus fish. You know, what would 414 00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:24,960 be some of your tips? 415 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,640 Speaker 3: This is my absolute favorite topic. So the number one 416 00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:32,680 thing that I think anybody, whatever their level of being 417 00:22:32,680 --> 00:22:36,200 in the aquarium world, is CO two is your best 418 00:22:36,279 --> 00:22:39,079 friend when it comes to plants, regardless if you're a 419 00:22:39,079 --> 00:22:42,200 beginner or you've been doing this for decades. If you 420 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,160 want the best out of your plants, you need to 421 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,799 start running pressurized COO two. And I emphasize the word pressurized. 422 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:51,640 And see there's a lot of products on the market 423 00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,920 that are called liquid CO two or CO two tablets, 424 00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:58,200 stuff like that, And what those products are. They're actually 425 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:02,680 a gutohydrate which is a medical sterilization enzyme that they 426 00:23:02,759 --> 00:23:06,160 use in enclaves to sterilize medical equipment. And the way 427 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,079 they interact with your plants is they make barros or 428 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:12,200 iron more uptakable by your plants. They don't add any 429 00:23:12,519 --> 00:23:15,559 CO two to the water, and you know, so they're 430 00:23:15,599 --> 00:23:17,839 not doing what you think they're doing. So pressure I 431 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:21,039 COO two would be actual pressurized gas inside of the 432 00:23:21,079 --> 00:23:24,759 cylinder that you're injecting into your aquarium, be a regulator 433 00:23:24,799 --> 00:23:27,480 and a diffuser or a reactor. And the reason why 434 00:23:27,519 --> 00:23:29,759 I stress this so much is CO two is the 435 00:23:29,799 --> 00:23:33,400 main nutrient for photosynthesis. That would be you know, just 436 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:35,319 to parallel that with us, that would be like if 437 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:39,000 we took say all the magnesium and calcium out of 438 00:23:39,039 --> 00:23:41,119 our diets, you know, we would be we would be 439 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:46,079 lacking a lot as far as function and pretty much everything. 440 00:23:46,319 --> 00:23:49,319 So CO two is extremely important for them. So I 441 00:23:49,359 --> 00:23:52,599 guess you know, my biggest push is to dive into it. 442 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:55,039 You know, if you're starting your first Planet Aquarium. If 443 00:23:55,039 --> 00:23:57,839 you start with CO two, it's no different than you know, 444 00:23:57,920 --> 00:23:59,440 when you first learn how to ride a bike and 445 00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,319 you take your train, like it's just a one more 446 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,400 little thing that you have to just quickly learn and 447 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,359 there's not much to it. It's for the most part, 448 00:24:07,440 --> 00:24:10,319 set it and forget it. But that's a whole another conversation. 449 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:12,880 And then the second would be fertilizers. So a lot 450 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:16,880 of people want to believe that their plants are going 451 00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,079 to live off of fish pool and that they're just 452 00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:21,240 going to sit there and do the thing and grow 453 00:24:21,240 --> 00:24:23,559 happy and healthy because their fish are in there and 454 00:24:23,559 --> 00:24:25,799 they're feeding their fish, and their fish are creating waste. 455 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,720 Fish waste provides you know, one or two nutrients to 456 00:24:29,759 --> 00:24:34,319 these plants, and there's overall sixteen micro and macronutrients that 457 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,680 a plant needs to properly grow. So I mean you're 458 00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:42,799 getting phosphate and you're getting nitrate from your fish and 459 00:24:42,839 --> 00:24:46,200 your food, so there's fourteen others that you're missing. So 460 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:48,519 when people come into the store and they show me 461 00:24:48,559 --> 00:24:50,880 pictures of the tanks that you know their plants are 462 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:54,480 struggling or they have algae and things like that. Usually 463 00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:56,839 the number one thing I find is that they aren't 464 00:24:56,839 --> 00:25:00,640 dosing fertilizers, and you know that, you know, it's simple 465 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,519 dose of fertilizer can fix so many issues that people 466 00:25:03,559 --> 00:25:06,279 struggle with. Even algae. A lot of algae is formed 467 00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:10,920 due to imbalance in your planet aquarium, nutrient imbalances, and 468 00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:13,920 the fertilizers level that out because the plants are now 469 00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:16,680 able to uptake all of the waste and things that 470 00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:19,200 you wanted them to do because they have the nutrients 471 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,279 they need to process this waste. So the third thing 472 00:25:22,559 --> 00:25:26,039 is going to be substrate. Substrate really plays a huge role. 473 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:30,759 All of these plants grow roots, even the epiphytes and rhodophytes, 474 00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:33,480 those guys grow roots, and those roots are used to 475 00:25:33,559 --> 00:25:37,880 uptake nutrient. And if you're using an inert substrate that 476 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:42,000 has no CEC or no ability to retain nutrients, those 477 00:25:42,039 --> 00:25:44,599 plants are going to be deprived. You know, they're not 478 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,519 going to have an ability to establish what they need 479 00:25:47,559 --> 00:25:52,279 to establish subterraneously because they rely on bacteria and all 480 00:25:52,319 --> 00:25:54,720 sorts of things to convert this waste over to an 481 00:25:54,799 --> 00:25:58,799 uptakable form. So if those bacteria aren't present, they're not 482 00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,480 going to be able to uptake the waste, and those 483 00:26:01,519 --> 00:26:07,759 bacterias form best and deeper layers of soils. So aquasoils 484 00:26:07,799 --> 00:26:10,960 are really what I would promote for people who want 485 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,720 to have successful planet aquariums. You can grow sand, and 486 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:16,640 there are people out there I have plenty of success 487 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:18,759 and growing in sand and such, but they're supplementing a 488 00:26:18,759 --> 00:26:22,160 lot with root tabs and things like that, or really 489 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,079 dosing the column heavy with fertilizer. So the plants are 490 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:29,079 getting their nutrients through precipitates falling into the substrate and 491 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,279 such like that. So I mean, if you want an 492 00:26:31,319 --> 00:26:35,480 easier route, substrate would be aquasoil because it has the nutrients, 493 00:26:35,519 --> 00:26:38,880 It can retain nutrients, and it also absorbs nutrients. So 494 00:26:39,839 --> 00:26:42,319 you know, there's no reason to start with a handicap. 495 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,880 Just you know, set the tank up with the aquasoil. 496 00:26:46,039 --> 00:26:50,240 Use a good fertilizer. I recommend APT because it's complete 497 00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:53,000 as everything you need in it as far as micro 498 00:26:53,079 --> 00:26:56,519 and macro nutrients, and get gas going. You know, crank 499 00:26:56,599 --> 00:27:01,160 some gas into the aquarium. It's beneficial all around as 500 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,839 far as people worrying about killing their fish and stuff. 501 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,160 I mean, start low, you know, you'll start low and observe. 502 00:27:07,319 --> 00:27:11,880 This is an observational hobby. Observe your fish, observe your plants. 503 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:14,839 If your fish are gasping, lower the gas, if your 504 00:27:14,839 --> 00:27:18,000 plants aren't pearling or they're not reacting up the gas. 505 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,799 So I mean, it's just an observational based bobby. There 506 00:27:21,839 --> 00:27:23,599 is science behind it. You can get into it if 507 00:27:23,599 --> 00:27:26,640 you want, but really just noticing and paying attention to 508 00:27:26,680 --> 00:27:29,839 your environment is key. That's great, great advice. 509 00:27:29,839 --> 00:27:31,680 Speaker 2: And as you started talking about each of those things, 510 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,559 I'm thinking, yeah, each of those is probably like another 511 00:27:33,839 --> 00:27:36,920 couple hours discussion, but I appreciate, Yeah, you mentioning all this. 512 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,839 This is kind of just a general question for like 513 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,039 people that are keeping fish as well. I'm just curious, like, 514 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:44,839 and I know it's probably going to vary depending on 515 00:27:44,839 --> 00:27:47,519 the plants and you know, you're set up and everything, 516 00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:50,519 but like what kind of phs do you sort of 517 00:27:50,599 --> 00:27:53,799 see with your CO two additions? Like is there a 518 00:27:53,839 --> 00:27:56,279 sort of a pH you're shooting forward? Is it really 519 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:57,799 very depending on what's happening. 520 00:27:57,960 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 3: So it varies on the environment. So correlates with your KH, 521 00:28:02,039 --> 00:28:05,279 which KH correlates with your C or two injection. So 522 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:09,559 CO two is acidic it will first before it even 523 00:28:09,559 --> 00:28:12,519 affects your pH, it has to eat away at your carbonates, 524 00:28:12,519 --> 00:28:15,000 so your cage and your tank. So if you have 525 00:28:15,039 --> 00:28:18,319 a very very IKH, say like seven would be high 526 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,039 in my world, then some people's worlds it's not. But 527 00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:22,559 if you have like a KH of seven and you're 528 00:28:22,599 --> 00:28:26,400 injecting gas, you're going to need to inject more gas 529 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,640 into your aquarium to start to get that pH to drop. 530 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:34,920 And I use pH drop where the actual pH dropping, 531 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,440 as an indicator that my environment has the CO two 532 00:28:38,519 --> 00:28:41,240 in it. It's working, it's in there, it's doing its thing, 533 00:28:41,279 --> 00:28:44,079 it's eating the carbonate's therefore now it's affecting the pH, 534 00:28:44,559 --> 00:28:48,319 which means it's now dissolving into my environment. So I 535 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,519 run some of my tanks at like a pH of five, 536 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:54,519 that would be like somewhat of a low point. But 537 00:28:54,759 --> 00:28:58,400 a lot of the fish I used to breed, including Discus, 538 00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:04,640 a pistograma, reminos, cardinal tetras, all these are some of them. Yeah, 539 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:06,720 some of them don't prompt and despawning into like a 540 00:29:06,759 --> 00:29:10,519 four point five pH. So it's mainly about again your 541 00:29:10,519 --> 00:29:13,640 starting environment and where you go from there with what 542 00:29:13,759 --> 00:29:14,519 fish you choose. 543 00:29:14,799 --> 00:29:17,640 Speaker 2: Okay, So I think you kind of talked about a 544 00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:20,440 little bit already, but with regard to what about like 545 00:29:20,559 --> 00:29:23,839 lighting and other parameters, what would people be thinking about. 546 00:29:24,079 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 3: So, lighting's going to correlate heavily into the colors you're 547 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,440 going to kick out. So if you're looking for that 548 00:29:28,839 --> 00:29:31,279 bright reds, the bright pinks and stuff like that that 549 00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:33,880 you see, you're going to need. You know, higher light. 550 00:29:34,359 --> 00:29:37,160 The light reacts with the plant. Basically, the plant will 551 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:40,680 displace its chlorophyl inside of itself to prevent itself from 552 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,359 being burned. Because most lights are real heavy in the 553 00:29:43,359 --> 00:29:46,400 green spectrum or the white spectrum, which is absorbed heavily 554 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,920 by or sorry, they're heavy in the blue spectrum and 555 00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:51,599 red spectrum and the white spectrum which is absorbed heavily 556 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:55,079 by green. So to prevent themselves from burning, they'll displace 557 00:29:55,119 --> 00:29:58,839 their chlorophyll and they'll make these colors. So, you know, 558 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:02,039 lighting affects the color of the plants and as also 559 00:30:02,119 --> 00:30:04,039 their growth pattern. You know, if you have a higher 560 00:30:04,119 --> 00:30:06,880 light or a stronger light on your aquarium, you're going 561 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,319 to get tighter, more dense growth, less stretching on the 562 00:30:10,319 --> 00:30:13,519 inner nodes, so you'll get nice compact plants, whereas if 563 00:30:13,559 --> 00:30:16,279 you have you know, not so powerful of a light 564 00:30:16,359 --> 00:30:18,759 or not so intensive a light, they're going to stretch. 565 00:30:18,880 --> 00:30:21,920 You know. The aquatic plant's goal, really, I tell this 566 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,400 to a lot of people, is to get out of 567 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,640 the aquarium. You know, they want to get out of 568 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:29,200 the aquarium, out into the air where there's unlimited CO two, 569 00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:32,920 no limiting factors, notal light degragation be due to the water. 570 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,759 They know this, and they know that there's more better 571 00:30:36,799 --> 00:30:39,960 things for him outside of the water. So by providing 572 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,119 them ample light under the water, you're almost tricking them 573 00:30:43,119 --> 00:30:46,400 into believing that with the correlation of CO two that 574 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,319 they have what they need. They don't need to stretch, 575 00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:51,960 they don't need to do this. So lighting lighting will 576 00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,319 play a big role in and keeping your plants compact, 577 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,279 keeping them colorful, all of that, and you know you 578 00:30:58,319 --> 00:30:59,880 can you can go the wrong way with it and 579 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,480 blast it with too much light and even start to 580 00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:07,759 sunburn your red plants and stuff. So there's definitely a 581 00:31:07,759 --> 00:31:12,400 happy happy medium there. I primarily run weak oa weak 582 00:31:12,440 --> 00:31:16,680 aqua lights on escapes and stuff like that, mainly because 583 00:31:16,759 --> 00:31:21,000 every spectrum on that light is controllable. I can adjust 584 00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,759 the intensity of every color spectrum and manufacture the look 585 00:31:25,799 --> 00:31:28,799 that I want as well as the intensity that I want, 586 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,279 which helps me make the fish look better, and it 587 00:31:31,319 --> 00:31:34,680 helps make the plants look better and keeps the environment stable. 588 00:31:35,279 --> 00:31:38,039 Speaker 2: So obviously sounds like the things you mentioned earlier, including 589 00:31:38,079 --> 00:31:40,519 the right substrate and everything, are key to probably a 590 00:31:40,519 --> 00:31:42,960 lot of plants. But let's say if you had to 591 00:31:43,039 --> 00:31:45,400 kind of choose maybe easy plants to start with, what 592 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:47,960 would you recommend to people that would still kind of 593 00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:49,799 give them the ability to have some sort of scape. 594 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:52,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, like I said, sand, growing in sand 595 00:31:52,039 --> 00:31:54,279 as possible as long as you use root tabs. But 596 00:31:54,319 --> 00:31:56,880 if you're looking for easy plants universally that will grow 597 00:31:57,319 --> 00:32:00,799 grow anywhere, no matter what the case, I mean, like 598 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,000 the Annubius genus, that genus is very already it grows 599 00:32:05,079 --> 00:32:09,200 very well and any substrate. Lagligia repens is a weed 600 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,960 by nature that's a native plant here to Florida, and 601 00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:16,519 it will grow just about anywhere in anything there's lots 602 00:32:16,559 --> 00:32:20,039 of water column feeders or more heavier water cottumn feeders 603 00:32:20,079 --> 00:32:24,359 like Hygrophyla deformists, which is known as wisteria. Wisteria can 604 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,680 grow in anything. It is a very bulletproof plant. Water 605 00:32:27,759 --> 00:32:31,240 sprites that whole category. There's a few different water sprites. 606 00:32:31,279 --> 00:32:35,519 Those guys grow really well. Microsorums or java ferns. It's 607 00:32:35,559 --> 00:32:39,240 another very easy plant. Can grow epaphetically or can grow 608 00:32:39,279 --> 00:32:42,119 on the substrate. CO two is not really a high 609 00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,440 demand for it. It can grow pretty well without it 610 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:47,960 and in any kind of substrate. All of those guys 611 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,960 are pretty easy cryptochureans. They like nutrients in the substrate. 612 00:32:52,039 --> 00:32:54,559 But again, I've had people grow them in you know, 613 00:32:54,799 --> 00:32:58,000 clay based substrates and stuff like that, no problem. So 614 00:32:58,119 --> 00:33:01,720 it's really trial and error when it comes to it 615 00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,200 as far as what plants will work, because I've had 616 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,079 some people grow plants that I swear wouldn't do well 617 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,720 in non CO two environments or or not spec specified 618 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,440 impairments and negrow fine in their tanks. So I mean, 619 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,720 I guess my biggest advice is for people to try it, 620 00:33:19,799 --> 00:33:22,599 you know, and don't get discouraged if it dies. Just 621 00:33:22,599 --> 00:33:24,680 to touch on that for a quick second, Like, I 622 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,000 can grow all the plants I can grow, because I've 623 00:33:28,079 --> 00:33:33,079 killed them a handful of times. You know, I learned that, 624 00:33:33,279 --> 00:33:36,440 you know, there's there's never going to be a a 625 00:33:36,519 --> 00:33:41,079 finite way to make these plants grow every time. You know, 626 00:33:41,119 --> 00:33:42,839 every every time is a little bit different, and you 627 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,920 kind of have to tweak things here and there with everything, 628 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:47,839 with every every tank I set up, you know, because 629 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:49,680 the rocks are going to affect the chemistry, so you 630 00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:52,319 have to tweak something here or there. So my biggest 631 00:33:52,359 --> 00:33:55,240 advice to people looking for easy plants is to just 632 00:33:55,799 --> 00:33:59,440 try what you like and there's always something similar. If 633 00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,920 you feel with that plant, you could try plant that 634 00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:07,680 looks just like it, that's probably going to be incrementally easier. 635 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,840 But that failure has led to a lot of success. 636 00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:15,400 They're more so learning opportunities than failures. Great, great advice. 637 00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit now about the kind 638 00:34:17,760 --> 00:34:21,559 of the next level. Can you explain what aquascaping is 639 00:34:21,599 --> 00:34:24,639 and maybe you know, you know, whatever the major groups 640 00:34:24,679 --> 00:34:27,880 of aquascape are if you can kind of describe these 641 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:28,360 for folks. 642 00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 3: For sure, aquascaping is an art. Aquascaping is art. There's 643 00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:35,480 not a better way to describe it. It is living art. 644 00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:38,840 It's ever evolving. Every day is different. You know, you 645 00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:41,960 see these photographs online of competition tanks, that's literally a 646 00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,480 split second in time for that aquarium. So I mean 647 00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,840 it's that that aquarium that you saw. For example, the 648 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:52,440 IPLC results just got released and the grand prize winning 649 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,880 tank is absolutely beautiful, and today it looks probably even 650 00:34:55,960 --> 00:34:58,119 better than it did in the photograph that it was 651 00:34:58,159 --> 00:35:01,960 taken a week ago. Something you sall on Instagram, you know, 652 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,039 you see a Knight's and you know, the artist when 653 00:35:04,039 --> 00:35:07,039 they're creating this is they're not necessarily trying to replicate 654 00:35:07,519 --> 00:35:11,159 the whole scene or replicate you know, an environment, more 655 00:35:11,199 --> 00:35:14,440 so trying to put forth the inspiration that they felt 656 00:35:14,480 --> 00:35:17,360 from this scene or from this actual piece of nature 657 00:35:17,679 --> 00:35:21,360 into their aquarium to inspire the artists or to inspire 658 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,719 the viewer to feel the same way that the artists 659 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,000 felt when they were looking at this piece of nature. 660 00:35:26,119 --> 00:35:28,880 That would be nature scapes in a nutshell. The next 661 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,119 would be it would Guomi and it Wagumi is probably 662 00:35:32,119 --> 00:35:36,480 one of the more more strict guidelines are more strict 663 00:35:36,559 --> 00:35:40,199 rules for for the Igumi tank. It has a set 664 00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:44,639 number of stones, and each stone is represented by you know, 665 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,119 a name, and that name as a meaning in Japanese 666 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,639 uh and those stones have various characteristics that you know, 667 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,280 basically decide where they're being placed in set aquarium. So 668 00:35:56,360 --> 00:35:59,039 I mean, you're your larger stone, you know, you're your 669 00:35:59,400 --> 00:36:02,199 biggest stone is going to be, you know, the main 670 00:36:02,280 --> 00:36:04,719 forefront of this aquarium, and then the other stones are 671 00:36:04,719 --> 00:36:06,760 all going to be kind of supporting stones, helping that 672 00:36:07,079 --> 00:36:10,159 stone tell its story. Planting and it would dooms is 673 00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,800 very simple. Usually you know, two to three species at max. 674 00:36:14,679 --> 00:36:18,159 Very limited in planting because again the focus isn't the 675 00:36:18,199 --> 00:36:21,000 plants in this style, it's more so these stones. You're 676 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,679 allowing these stones to tell their story. It would gooom me. 677 00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:27,480 In my opinion, it's one of the hardest forms to master, 678 00:36:27,679 --> 00:36:31,440 yet it's one of the most simplest looking forms of aquarium. 679 00:36:31,559 --> 00:36:35,800 It is a beautiful, beautiful style. Next would be like 680 00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:41,039 biotopes and biotopes pretty pretty self explanatory. You're taking again 681 00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:44,760 a piece of nature and you are replicating it exactly 682 00:36:45,519 --> 00:36:48,840 down to the you know, chemistry of the water, the 683 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:51,800 type of sand that is these fisher are living atop, 684 00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:54,920 the types of wood that they're swimming around, the types 685 00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:57,679 of plants they're living in. All of that is to 686 00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,559 be replicated, you know, verbatim. And that's a that's a biotope. 687 00:37:01,559 --> 00:37:05,440 Biotopes are fun because you actually get to see true nature. 688 00:37:05,559 --> 00:37:08,000 You know, we to go back to nature scapes. Those 689 00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:11,840 are extremely well manicured, taken care of, and you know, 690 00:37:11,960 --> 00:37:16,119 designed to be beautiful pieces of art. Biotopes sometimes can 691 00:37:16,159 --> 00:37:19,400 look like algae fits, but at the same time they're 692 00:37:19,639 --> 00:37:23,039 they're beautiful because that's nature. I spent a lot of 693 00:37:23,079 --> 00:37:26,519 time snorkeling various freshwater rivers and even went into a 694 00:37:26,559 --> 00:37:28,920 few canals in my life, and I can tell you 695 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:32,079 that algae, algae is a part of it. Alogie is nature. 696 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:34,719 A lot of fish rely on algae for a diet. 697 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,599 So when you see biotopes and you see it covered 698 00:37:37,639 --> 00:37:40,960 in algae and you think, oh no, that's beautiful, it's art. 699 00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,719 It is literally what has been designed out in nature 700 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:48,079 by whatever greater power did what they did. So, I mean, 701 00:37:48,360 --> 00:37:51,639 biotopes are special to me for that reason, just because 702 00:37:51,639 --> 00:37:55,039 of how true nature they are. And then you get 703 00:37:55,039 --> 00:37:58,199 into you know, even more manicured world in the aquariums, 704 00:37:58,199 --> 00:38:01,320 which would be Dutch style aquariums, and style aquariums are 705 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:05,760 if you could imagine like a Dutch tulip garden or 706 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,599 something along those lines, how manicured in the lines and 707 00:38:08,679 --> 00:38:12,360 separation between the vari species of plants. All that correlates 708 00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,400 into dutch Oka scaping as well. With dutch Aka scaping, 709 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:18,079 there's very strict rules. So like let's say you have 710 00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,639 a ninety centimeter tank. So the biggest rule is that 711 00:38:21,679 --> 00:38:24,840 you have one plant specie per ten centimeters of tank 712 00:38:24,880 --> 00:38:27,719 space or tank with So in a ninety centimeter tank, 713 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:30,119 you can have nine species of plants, and they allow 714 00:38:30,159 --> 00:38:32,920 you to have two extra as kind of like curtain 715 00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,320 plants and stuff like that. So probably get away with eleven, 716 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:39,920 but you have to create a lot of contrast and 717 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,360 depth with these eleven or nine species of plants in 718 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,519 this ninety centimeter aquarium, so the layout becomes a bit tricky. 719 00:38:48,039 --> 00:38:50,719 You have to know the growth patterns of these plants, 720 00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:52,519 because some plants are going to grow like weeds and 721 00:38:52,559 --> 00:38:54,960 some plants are going to grow very slow. So when 722 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,760 it comes to your horticultural skills and trimming and stuff 723 00:38:57,800 --> 00:38:59,519 like that, you really have to be on top of it. 724 00:38:59,599 --> 00:39:02,360 And these plants, you have to do a lot of 725 00:39:02,360 --> 00:39:04,719 research on them and stuff to realize that you know, 726 00:39:04,840 --> 00:39:06,960 plant A is going to grow three inches a week, 727 00:39:07,039 --> 00:39:09,159 plant B is only going to grow an inch, so 728 00:39:09,239 --> 00:39:11,360 you have to account for that when you want to 729 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,719 take your final photo as far as when these plants 730 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,599 are going to be all at their peaks and all 731 00:39:16,639 --> 00:39:21,639 looking their best. Dutch to me is my absolute favorite 732 00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,719 style of aquarium, mainly because of the way you have 733 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,599 to work with the plants. You can't really rail against them, 734 00:39:29,639 --> 00:39:32,239 and that it will you'll be able to tell at 735 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,719 the end of it that you worked against them instead 736 00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:36,960 of with them. And then there's the newest one is 737 00:39:37,039 --> 00:39:39,840 Garden style, which is kind of like a modified Dutch. 738 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:41,920 This is something that came about in the last few 739 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:46,280 years that was born at a collector itis. Honestly, it's 740 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,199 really kind of like a beautiful painting of aquatic plants. 741 00:39:51,199 --> 00:39:53,880 There's no rules as far as placement, there's no rules 742 00:39:53,880 --> 00:39:57,800 as far as speci limit anything like that, and they 743 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,559 look absolutely beautiful. Those are those are the tanks that 744 00:40:00,639 --> 00:40:04,159 are you see most primarily, I believe on Instagram if 745 00:40:04,199 --> 00:40:06,480 you're scrolling through any kind of awqua scaping feed and 746 00:40:06,519 --> 00:40:09,519 that's because of the colors. The colors and these plants 747 00:40:09,559 --> 00:40:12,920 are absolutely astounding that they're able to pull through in 748 00:40:13,000 --> 00:40:17,840 garden style aquascapes, and it's, in my opinion, another mastery 749 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:21,199 of the aquatic world with garden style scapes emerging as 750 00:40:22,039 --> 00:40:23,000 popular as they are. 751 00:40:23,199 --> 00:40:24,840 Speaker 2: Actually I knew a couple of those, but I didn't, 752 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:27,039 you know, I wasn't familiar with all of those. That's 753 00:40:27,079 --> 00:40:30,280 quite a few different kind of approaches. Since we're running 754 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:32,239 out of time, and I could go on for another 755 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,320 hour or two, obviously more or more with you. Can 756 00:40:34,360 --> 00:40:37,840 you tell us your favorite win about the competition in 757 00:40:37,880 --> 00:40:38,639 a couple of minutes. 758 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:44,519 Speaker 3: Yeah, So my favorite win actually was at Aquachella and Orlando, 759 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:50,000 I believe in twenty nineteen, either twenty nineteen or twenty twenty. No, 760 00:40:50,119 --> 00:40:51,800 it was nineteen because they didn't have it in twenty 761 00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:57,280 twenty nineteen. I was working with Grant Eater and Brian 762 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:04,039 Coveney and Shelby Kay and it was awesome, awesome, awesome 763 00:41:04,119 --> 00:41:07,559 job working as a team honestly, like we we just 764 00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,239 all had a role in doing what we were doing, 765 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:14,599 and escape came together so well, and still to this day, 766 00:41:14,639 --> 00:41:16,960 I feel like that scape that we did is one 767 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,079 of my favorite scapes that I had a hand in, 768 00:41:20,159 --> 00:41:22,440 and it just felt so good. It was really like 769 00:41:22,559 --> 00:41:26,360 one of my first like big competition wins and totally 770 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,719 wasn't expecting it, so it came out of out of 771 00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:34,360 nowhere and it just felt really really good to have that. 772 00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,079 And I guess like the biggest thing that made it 773 00:41:37,079 --> 00:41:39,599 special to me was all the people because it was 774 00:41:39,599 --> 00:41:42,920 a live event. We had crowds of people around us 775 00:41:43,000 --> 00:41:47,320 watching us build this this escape, asking us questions, getting inspired, 776 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:53,920 videotaping us, filming us, you know everything, everything. And after 777 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,800 the show, after we had won, my inbox on Instagram 778 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,599 and Facebook had multiple messages in it thanking me for 779 00:42:01,679 --> 00:42:04,119 the inspiration, thanking me for taking the time to show 780 00:42:04,159 --> 00:42:07,039 them vary its techniques that we were using on the escape, 781 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,280 you know, telling me how I inspired them to up 782 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,760 their game or inspired them even to start their first 783 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,679 off escape. And you know, I'm getting a little emotional 784 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:16,599 even thinking about it, But that's like why I do 785 00:42:16,679 --> 00:42:18,639 what I do. That is it, you know? That is 786 00:42:18,679 --> 00:42:22,679 it the inspiration and bringing people into this hobby and 787 00:42:23,039 --> 00:42:28,360 showing them what's possible in the aquarium world and sharing 788 00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:31,039 the love for this hobby and the respect that it 789 00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:34,039 has and that I have for It's all right, get 790 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:35,880 getting teered up a little bit. 791 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:37,880 Speaker 2: Oh no, no, it's beautiful. Yeah, I'll have to take 792 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,039 look that up where you have to send me the pictures. 793 00:42:40,039 --> 00:42:41,960 And I know a couple of those folks. I mean, 794 00:42:42,079 --> 00:42:44,119 I've had Grant on and so I assume you had 795 00:42:44,119 --> 00:42:46,320 a lot of shrimp on the or some shrimp in 796 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:48,679 the in the tank if Grant was involved. 797 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, we dumped like one hundred and 798 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,719 fifty cherry reds in there. It was it was awesome 799 00:42:54,920 --> 00:42:58,000 watching and do their shrimp stuff, skirt around the tank 800 00:42:58,039 --> 00:42:59,639 and all that. It added so much life to the 801 00:42:59,639 --> 00:43:01,280 aquer And yeah, that's beautiful. 802 00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:03,559 Speaker 2: Well again, we'll definitely have to have you on again 803 00:43:03,599 --> 00:43:07,199 and we'll talk more about aquascaping and maybe get a 804 00:43:07,239 --> 00:43:09,639 little bit more even into the competitions, but we are 805 00:43:09,679 --> 00:43:12,000 out of time, unfortunately. I want to thank our guest 806 00:43:12,239 --> 00:43:14,719 Chance Kramer and our producer Mark Winner for making this 807 00:43:14,719 --> 00:43:17,800 show possible. So Chance, do you have any words of 808 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:19,280 wisdom or final thoughts. 809 00:43:19,559 --> 00:43:23,039 Speaker 3: Yeah, don't get discouraged by failure in this lobby. Every 810 00:43:23,039 --> 00:43:25,239 failure in one aquarium is you know, the key to 811 00:43:25,280 --> 00:43:28,480 success here in the next aquarium. Look at everything as 812 00:43:28,679 --> 00:43:31,760 a learning, learning experience as opposed to a failure and 813 00:43:32,199 --> 00:43:34,800 crank the gas. Get to get the CO two going. 814 00:43:34,920 --> 00:43:36,800 You want to be successful at the water plans. If 815 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,960 you want to have an aquascape that looks like an 816 00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,079 IPLC you know, top one hundred tank. The key to 817 00:43:42,119 --> 00:43:44,639 this is CO two is. I can't stress that enough. 818 00:43:44,719 --> 00:43:47,079 Your best friend in this world, you know, just dive 819 00:43:47,159 --> 00:43:50,159 right into it and crank that gas. I can't say 820 00:43:50,159 --> 00:43:50,599 that enough. 821 00:43:50,760 --> 00:43:54,079 Speaker 2: Okay, great, well, thanks, well, please be sure to check 822 00:43:54,119 --> 00:43:56,719 out Chance's weblinks. Chance. We'll make sure we got all 823 00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:00,679 your weblinks found on his aquarium Mania episode Take. If 824 00:44:00,679 --> 00:44:03,559 you have any questions, comments, or ideas first show, email 825 00:44:03,639 --> 00:44:06,760 me at doctor Roy at petlife Radio dot com. That's 826 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:10,239 d R R o I at Petlife Radio dot com. 827 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,119 Until next time, please visit your local A CRAM stores, 828 00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,119 keep your tanks clean and healthy, and definitely consider up 829 00:44:16,119 --> 00:44:18,440 in your aquarium keeping game with aquascaming. 830 00:44:19,199 --> 00:44:20,199 Speaker 3: Let's Talk Pats 831 00:44:20,559 --> 00:44:36,280 Speaker 5: Every week on demand only on Petlife Radios dot com