Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast.
Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer,
and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my
experience as the brother of a murder victim to help
other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book
on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co
administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with
Kristin Dilly.
Speaker 3: My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher,
a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the
social media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway
Murders Facebook page with my partner in crime, Bill Thomas.
Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly and I'm
Bill Thomas, and we are so thrilled to be joined
today by Jeanette Edwards Santiago. She's the sister of Robin Edwards,
and we are thrilled Jeannette, as always to have you
come talk to us. We don't get to talk to
you terribly off and on air, so thank you for
taking the time to join us today.
Speaker 2: Most definitely, I think about something Jeannette wishes. We've talked
many times privately about what was going on with the
case and how things were with your family, both of
our intense desire to see the case move forward, but
it wasn't always on the air. As a matter of fact,
most times it wasn't. So it's actually an interesting dynamic
to talk about some of this stuff on the air
here at mind of a murder. Thank you for doing that.
Speaker 4: You're welcome.
Speaker 3: It occurred to me the other day when I was
talking to Bill that as we enter, I hate to
put it this way, but it is what it is
Parkway Anniversary season because the phelpslower case happens in the
late August, and then Robin and Davidson, then Kathy and Becky's.
It occurred to me that this was going to be
the first year where we have had an answer in
one of our cases. I told Bill, we absolutely have
got to get Jeannette on the phone to talk a
little bit about this, because this is the first time
that any of the families here have answers. We just
wanted to get your thoughts on that this is the
first year September nineteenth, that you'll have a definitive answer
as to what happened to Robin and David? How do
you feel about that?
Speaker 4: It's weird. I hadn't actually thought about that, fat, So
it's a little weird.
Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about what has transpired.
Let's roll back a little bit. When did you find
out that a suspect had been identified in Robin and
David's case?
Speaker 4: Early January twenty twenty four?
Speaker 3: And was that just before the big press conference on
January eighth?
Speaker 4: Yep, it was the thursday before.
Speaker 2: Now had your Virginia State Police case agent. Had he
given you the heads up that something was coming? How
did they let you know we have news and we
want to talk to you and your family about it.
Speaker 4: He reached out to us me specifically, wanted to meet
with my mom and myself as soon as possible. So
of course that kind of had me a little scared
and worried. And he came over the next evening after
I got off work and met with me and my mom,
And that was not what I was expecting to hear.
Speaker 2: Did he get right into it? And two of you,
obviously you and your mom are probably apprehensive. Did he
cut to the chase without a long build up. How
does he phrase me?
Speaker 4: He kind of explained how the investigation had taken and
about the DNA and how they had submitted it, and
just the whole process of basically the last year building
up to getting a definitive suspect, and just he explained
it and he said, we have identified item. And at
that point everything went black. It kind of stopped making
sense for a moment. And then he had pictures of
him and pictures of his truck, and so it was
just it was weird, to say the least. That was
the I expected, maybe we have advances in DNA, or
we have a suspect, but no concrete. That's the kind
of stuff I was expecting because that's what we've gotten
over the years. Yeah, so for it to have been
solved was mind boggling. I called my sister, who lives
in Missouri, and I couldn't even tell her. I just said, here,
you have to talk to the police officer and I
handed him the phone.
Speaker 2: Your investigator was still there when you were telling your sister, Yes,
I'm trying to picture this. Is this at your house, your.
Speaker 4: Mom's house, at my house.
Speaker 2: Are you at sitting on the couch or are you
at the coffee table. Houses.
Speaker 4: We're sitting in the den on the couch and he's
on the other couch, and it just he's showing us
the pictures and explaining the process and what they had
been through earlier that day and how it came to
making sure he got over to see us that particular day.
So it's all, sir, surreal still.
Speaker 2: I can imagine now. Would this have been a couple
of days before the public press conference, which was on
January eighth, twenty twenty four, So this is a few
days prior to that. Yes, Were they concerned about leaks
about this getting out into the media before they were
ready to announce it.
Speaker 4: Yes, they asked us not to tell anybody outside of
the immediate family because of the press release, and let
us know that how that was going to work and
that they were going to do that on that believe
that was a Monday. My sister and her husband actually
drove from Missouri.
Speaker 2: Oh they did. I don't think I knew that.
Speaker 4: Yep, they drove.
Speaker 3: Did they request for you to be at the press
conference or did you request to be there?
Speaker 4: I think it was both. I think that we were
given the choice, and I told him that basically, there
was no way in hell that I was going to
miss it.
Speaker 3: Sure, I remember turning on the live feed and seeing
you standing there, and that was the first of many
times that day that I started to cry.
Speaker 2: We've had it described to us that there was a
briefing with the families. Did they brief you again with
members of the Edwards, Nobling, Call and Haley families together?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 2: Oh, so they were done separately. So in other words,
we did the Edwards family and then and then the Noblings,
so it was all done separately. How long would you
say you met with your investigator.
Speaker 4: For that Thursday night? He was what this for about
an hour.
Speaker 2: Knowing you pretty well. You work in the medical field.
You've learned a fair amount about DNA and how forensics
testing works. I know you're always a person has a
lot of questions. Were you able to get to the
place where you're able to ask questions or were you
still just dealing with this incredible news, which had to
be shocking and emotional.
Speaker 4: Yeah. I was able to ask the questions that came
to my brain at that time, right, and my mom
of course had her own questions. He spent as much
time as we needed him to be there. He was
very compassionate and very thorough and answered anything we questioned.
So it was even in a weird way of bonding moments.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Sure.
Speaker 2: I had always been very impressed with him as an
investigator and as a human being. And I know you
dealt with them more often than I did. He struck
me as a sharp young investigator. I've said to Christian,
he'd go get her. This is the way it felt
when we talked to him maybe a year before that.
He really wanted to see this case move forward and
it was determined to see it through.
Speaker 4: Yes, and you could tell it was very personal to him.
Speaker 3: When you talk to your case agent. Did he also
mention Teresa Howell and her family? Was that the first
that you'd heard of her name or were you familiar
with her case?
Speaker 4: Nope, first I've ever heard of her was that day?
Speaker 2: And then did you ever meet Teresa Howell's family?
Speaker 4: Yes? At the press conference?
Speaker 2: Speaking of the press conference, by the way, were they
things they asked you to say or not say at
the press conference?
Speaker 4: We decided as a family because I know myself, when
my emotions get high, I tend to not be able
to express myself by cry more and almost hyperventilate in
those situations, and especially you talking about having cameras at
you when reporters. So we sat down with the state
police and wrote out a statement from us, and the
novelis added what they wanted to add, and we decided,
is an entire group that we weren't going to speak.
They gave us the opportunity that we could have spoken,
that we all decided that emotions were too high and
that it wouldn't have been pretty.
Speaker 2: Was that the first time you'd ever heard Alan Wade
Wilmer Sor's name?
Speaker 4: Yep, yep.
Speaker 3: How much information did they give you about him? Did
they just say he's the perpetrator and here's what we
know about him, or how much did you learn.
Speaker 4: We learned that he had a shrimp boat and that
he did a lot of fishing, and that he had
a blue pickup truck, and that he lived over on
the eastern shore, but he was frequently on this side
of the water, in the Newport News Yorktown kind of area.
And then he explained how his DNA became part of
the system and how in his death the DNA was
submitted and entered into the system. So he explained that
that whole point of events from the neighbor calling and
having people go to the house because of the funny
smell coming from the house house and them finding him deceased,
to the DNA and how that was uploaded and what
made them run the DNA against his. So it was
a lot of It was a lot of information in
that short amount of time.
Speaker 2: Can you be expanding that a little bit when you
say ran the DNA against his? Did they say why
they had done that?
Speaker 4: And again, this my record. My recognition of exactly how
it unfolded was emotional at that time. But I guess
from my understanding he had been on the radar before
and one of the other investigators had been looking at
him for some of the other cases and was in
touch with our agent and made a suggestion. And that's
from what I remember how that transpired.
Speaker 2: Did they give you any indication of when that was?
When that took place.
Speaker 4: About a year. I want to say it was summer
of twenty twenty three. That's the date that's sticking out
in my head. Now. I could be totally wrong, because,
like I said, I was half hearing and half comprehending
everything we talked about.
Speaker 2: It's got to be overwhelming that summer twenty twenty three.
Is what we've been told as well, is that the
identification took place a couple of months prior to the announcement.
One of the questions that's come up a lot, Janetta,
and I don't know if you know the answer. Wilmer
had this boat waterman, as you mentioned, he also had
the blue truck that was in the pictures, as well
as access to other vehicles. Did they ever give you
a clear idea of how they thought he got to
the Ragged Island site? Did he come there by boat
or by vehicle?
Speaker 4: They never definitively said, even in theory, So.
Speaker 2: They didn't venture a guests or a theory about things
like that. No, And then did they mention, as Kristen asked,
did they mention Teresa Howell at that meeting at your
family's home. Did they say, and there's another victim?
Speaker 4: Yes?
Speaker 2: And how much information did they provide you on the
Teresa Howell case, which is obviously new to you.
Speaker 4: Just turn when she was killed in the way she
was killed with the similarities to Robin and David's case.
But nothing really more than that.
Speaker 3: And then at that point, I know, obviously your investigator
can't speak to the various FBI cases. Were you in
any way aware that at that point he had also
been looked at for Keith Colin Sandy Haley.
Speaker 4: Not at that time. Now now they did indicate that
they were not. I want to say that it was
mentioned that it cannot be ruled out that there's involvement
in any other case. I think that was almost the
statement that was made, but no specifics to any particular case.
But at that time, me and my mom even said
we wouldn't be shocked if he was responsible for more cases.
And truly, I'm shocked at this point that we haven't
heard of more victims, not only just in our cases
but elsewhere. Halfway expected that they would start popping up
while he's responsible for this one, and I am shocked
that hasn't happened.
Speaker 3: I still think it's going to. I think at some
point or another there is going to be more and
they'll have to start naming them. But I think it's
probably still a while off. But yeah, I agree with you, Janette,
I'm surprised it's taken this long for them to say, oh,
and also this one and this one.
Speaker 2: Yes, I want to ask you to jump back in
time with me for a minute, Jeanette. I recall it's
well over a year ago, it could be even two
years ago that the Virginia State Police investigator had spoken
to you about his desire and his team's desire to
do advanced forensic testing on the rape kit. At the time,
he told us there was a concern at the Virginia
Department of Forensic Science those are the folks that won
the lab that the testing that they might do might
use the last of the DNA that was left. As
I recall, tests have been done to that evidence over
the years, but some of those early tests consume the DNA.
You and I had gotten word that testing was being conducted,
and he expressed some concern that the testing might use
the remaining small amount of highly degraded DNA. And I
remember talking to you about this, and you and I
had the same attitude. Now, obviously Robin's not my sister,
she's yours, But I remember you saying something like no
time like the present, or if this is the last
best shot we've got, we should move forward with this. Yes,
did he reference that those earlier conversations, which had been
at least a year before.
Speaker 4: Now, now we didn't talk about that again half my
brain working at that time, all those questions didn't come
to mind until way later. It's crazy to look back
and go back in time to all that.
Speaker 2: Did he ever circle back with you? In other words,
have you spoken to your case agent since that January
time frame?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 4: And my daughter Robin is wanting to know more about
what was found when they went into his home. She's
curious as to did he like some serial killers? Did
he keep mementos? Did he keep souvenirs? If you will,
really curious about that part of the investigation. So I
do need to reach out to it because I'd like
to know.
Speaker 3: Does it bother you that Wilmer cannot be punished for
his crimes at this point because he died well ahead
of time. Does that bother you at all? Or is
that just not even on your mind right now?
Speaker 4: Yes? And no, there's some time that I was angry
for a little while that he died without being punished,
But then also part of me is glad that he died,
because without him dying in the manner in which he did,
his DNA probably wouldn't have been on file, and we
might never have been to this point had he just
become an old man and died a nursing home or
in a hospital somewhere.
Speaker 2: Now, it's a good point. I'd never thought about it
in those terms. Him dying alone at home and not
being identified right away resulted in them law enforcement testing
his DNA to confirm that this person was him. I
never thought about it from that point of view. But
you're right. If he hadn't died in that manner alone
at home, he might never have been tested for DNA
right now. Do you feel that the testing that we
discussed a second ago, that was done months or even
a year back, that your case agent talked to us about,
do you feel like that testing led to this connection
between Wilmer and the evidence. Yes? So. Do you feel
like they listened to you? I remember you saying, look,
if this is our last best shot, let's take it.
Did you feel like you were listened to?
Speaker 4: Yeah? I do.
Speaker 3: I do. That's got to feel good.
Speaker 2: You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back
after this word from our sponsors. We're back here at
mindover Murder. Before we get back to the podcast. Just
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Now back to Mind over Murder. How often, if ever,
would you talk to the members of the Nobling family.
Is that a conversation that happens or doesn't happen?
Speaker 4: It doesn't really happen. I am friends with Michael on
Facebook and Science. Yeah, get to follow his life and
to actually really sit down with them. That hasn't happened
since Carl.
Speaker 2: Passed, and Carl's the father who passed away a couple
of years ago. Yes, one of my small regrets in
this case is I've obviously met most of the people involved,
but I never met Carl. He struck me as a
real character. It was everything I've heard.
Speaker 4: It's such a good heart too. He was very compassionate.
When our families used to get together on the holidays
and stuff, we would go over to their house. I
remember we went swimming at their pool a couple of times,
and he was always so caring, always worried about my mom.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's very sweet.
Speaker 4: He was a good guy.
Speaker 2: So do you feel like Carl the dad was the
catalyst for some of those to get togethers yes, I do. Everything.
We've heard about him and read about him, and of
course we talked to family members. He just sounds like
such a wonderful guy. Watching him on video and interviews,
it's a southern Santa Claus vibe going on, and he
just seemed like such a sweet, kind man and just
a character. I can't think of another word.
Speaker 3: You were talking about this sense of how everything felt surreal,
and I can really only imagine how surreal that must
have been in the months since. How are things feeling now,
are you guys adapting to the news? Is life returning
to normal? I imagine that for the first couple of
weeks when people started getting updates, you were probably inundated
with a lot of media.
Speaker 4: Calls from family friends and stuff like that, just family friends.
The media actually left us alone, and I'm oh, wow,
I was really shocked. I halfway expected for my phone
to be like blowing up. I did do an interview
with one of the local stations here.
Speaker 3: And Wavy, right. Yes, I actually remember watching that on TV.
Actually the day I was in the hospital with my boyfriend.
He'd had to go to the emergency room, and I
looked up in the corner of the TV at Mary
Immaculated there you were, and I was like, oh my gosh,
I'm have to go catch that somehow. But I do
remember seeing you on WAVY.
Speaker 4: So that's the only interview that I have done since then.
Speaker 2: Was that something that you and your mom and your
sister you wanted to step back from you? That wasn't something.
Speaker 4: At the day of the press conference, Yes, but I
would have been open for questions and stuff after we
had time to process. That's why I didn't do that
interview right away. My mom absolutely refused. She didn't want
to be in the public spotlight anymore. I was okay
with talking about it at that time, and it was
a good time to do the interview.
Speaker 2: And how about now some months have gone by. How
are you feeling about things in general? Depends on the day, man, sure,
I get it.
Speaker 4: Depends on the day. I can be totally fine talking
about it and talking to people that I don't see
every day or talk to every day about it, and
there will be a time where somebody asked me a
question and it's instant tears. So it just it depends
on the day.
Speaker 3: And I realized that I made you cry with the
very first question that I asked you. I'm so sorry
about this, Okay, but it's I can imagine surreal still
being the adjective that applies to this situation. I can't
even imagine what that's like to suddenly have answers after
all these years. Would you say that finding out about
what actually happened to Robin and David has that improved
your life?
Speaker 4: It's made me be able to relax in the fact
that he can't hurt anybody else. It's made me not
fear society less. But my girls will tell you, as
they became teenagers, starting to get thirteen, near nearing fourteen,
I was the helicopter mom. I need to know where
you are and what you're doing, Who are you with,
where are you going, I need to know, I need
to know everything because of this incident. And I've been
that way with my girls and my granddaughters and even
my grandson's. So the relief of knowing that there's not
a person out there that's going to target any other
family members has almost been a relief, if you will.
So that has been helpful.
Speaker 3: Kind of a weight off your shoulders. Yes, it's a
long time to carry that weight too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how does Robin your daughter's curiosity manifest itself? She
is she starting to ask questions.
Speaker 4: Yes, now that she's finished with nursing.
Speaker 2: School, Wow, that's exciting.
Speaker 4: She's got a little more time, Not that you have
time with two toddlers. So she's asking questions, Hey, to
do ever hear any more? What's going on with that?
Can you find out? So? And she's the kind of
person where if she gets something in her head, it's
not going to rest until she g's that answer.
Speaker 2: And so that might bring about a phone call from
you to your investigator to check in.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she actually mentioned it this morning.
Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting. Yeah, and maybe with some time having
a lapsed since the original news back in January, but
it's obviously still on her mind. Yes, her kids are
little there, they wouldn't understand any of this conversation.
Speaker 4: Correct.
Speaker 2: Does it feel good that your daughter followed you into
the medical field. You both work in medicine.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I have two nurses. Two of my daughters are nurses.
Speaker 2: My mom is a nurse too, So I have a
real soft spot for people that work in the medical field,
and I think it's incredibly important. So are they both
practicing now? You mentioned Robin has young kids.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she works in the hospital here and New Poor News,
And so does my oldest daughter. And Robin is actually
back in school to get her r N. Now she's
got her LPN and now she's going for her ran.
Speaker 2: Good for her.
Speaker 4: She's great working and going to school and raising two boys.
Speaker 2: That sounds like a full life, a.
Speaker 3: Very full life. Yes, this has been such a long
time coming for you guys, and I'm so happy. Oops,
I'm getting a little choked up to Yeah. I'm so
happy for you guys. But it took a while for
it to get to this point, for you all to
have answers. We know that there are families out there,
some of them still Colonial Parkway murders, families who are
waiting for answers. What would you say to families that
are still waiting for answers in their loved ones cases,
especially if it's a long wait like y'all's.
Speaker 4: Was never give up hope, we least expected it could
be the break that we've needed. I've always said since
we were classified as the Colonial Parkway murders that even
if one case got solved, it would be a win
for all of us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've said the same thing.
Speaker 4: I never imagined that it would be our case that
was solved first, and I say first, but had it
been one of the other cases, I still would have
felt the same way that it was a win for
all of us.
Speaker 2: I could not agree more. We're so thrilled for you.
I can ask you this question. When you've been looking
for answers for as long as you have, Now that
you've had some time to process and maybe this will
take the rest of your life to totally figure this out,
do you regard this news as good news?
Speaker 4: Mostly? Yes, I always wanted my mom to be laid
to rest, with the fact of knowing who killed my sister,
and that has happened. Getting up in age, and I
was scared because my dad passed away before we got
any kind of closure. I did not want that to
be the same case for my mom.
Speaker 2: So mostly yes, and your mom's attitude towards this is
it similar.
Speaker 4: Yes, she said nothing can bring her back, of course,
but knowing that he can't hurt anybody else is the
biggest plus in her book.
Speaker 3: Jeanette, I've I've been muting myself. I'm crying, and all right,
it's all happy tears. I did not foresee myself getting
this emotional. Jeanette. We're so thrilled for you, really we are,
and it has been such a pleasure of being able
to talk to you today about this, because this really
is as I said at the top, this is the
first anniversary where we have answers, and we consider that
a win all of us. So thank you for joining
us and for being willing to talk to us about it,
even though I know I made you cry it a
little bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I'm glad I did it. I'm glad that
we've gotten to talk and it helps my soul.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Jeannette. We really appreciate you and
we love you very much.
Speaker 4: Love y'all guys too.
Speaker 3: That is going to do it for this episode of
mind Over Murder. Thank you so much for listening. We'll
see you next time.
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and
Another Dog Productions.
Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley.
Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois.
Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLeod.
Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media.
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Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway
Murders on Facebook.
Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at
Bill Thomas five six.
Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.