1 00:00:01,120 --> 00:00:04,160 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Mind Over Murder podcast. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,679 Speaker 2: My name is Bill Thomas. I'm a writer, consulting, producer, 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:12,839 and now podcaster. I am now trying to use my 4 00:00:12,919 --> 00:00:15,800 experience as the brother of a murder victim to help 5 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:18,600 other victims of violent crime. I'm working on a book 6 00:00:18,679 --> 00:00:21,440 on the unsolved Colonial Parkway murders and I'm the co 7 00:00:21,519 --> 00:00:24,760 administrator of the Colonial Parkway Murders Facebook group together with 8 00:00:24,839 --> 00:00:25,519 Kristin Dilly. 9 00:00:26,079 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 3: My name is Kristin Dilly. I'm a writer, a researcher, 10 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,079 a teacher, and a victim's advocate, as well as the 11 00:00:32,119 --> 00:00:35,840 social media manager and co administrator for the Colonial Parkway 12 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:39,079 Murders Facebook page with my partner in crime, Bill Thomas. 13 00:00:41,679 --> 00:00:44,640 Welcome to Mind Ever Murder. I'm Kristin Dilly and I'm 14 00:00:44,679 --> 00:00:48,000 Bill Thomas, and we are so thrilled to be joined 15 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:52,679 today by Jeanette Edwards Santiago. She's the sister of Robin Edwards, 16 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,439 and we are thrilled Jeannette, as always to have you 17 00:00:56,479 --> 00:00:58,119 come talk to us. We don't get to talk to 18 00:00:58,159 --> 00:01:00,159 you terribly off and on air, so thank you for 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:01,640 taking the time to join us today. 20 00:01:03,119 --> 00:01:07,359 Speaker 2: Most definitely, I think about something Jeannette wishes. We've talked 21 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,519 many times privately about what was going on with the 22 00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:14,319 case and how things were with your family, both of 23 00:01:14,359 --> 00:01:17,640 our intense desire to see the case move forward, but 24 00:01:17,719 --> 00:01:19,640 it wasn't always on the air. As a matter of fact, 25 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,840 most times it wasn't. So it's actually an interesting dynamic 26 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:25,920 to talk about some of this stuff on the air 27 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,640 here at mind of a murder. Thank you for doing that. 28 00:01:29,079 --> 00:01:29,760 Speaker 4: You're welcome. 29 00:01:30,159 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 3: It occurred to me the other day when I was 30 00:01:32,359 --> 00:01:35,760 talking to Bill that as we enter, I hate to 31 00:01:35,799 --> 00:01:37,079 put it this way, but it is what it is 32 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:41,799 Parkway Anniversary season because the phelpslower case happens in the 33 00:01:41,879 --> 00:01:46,040 late August, and then Robin and Davidson, then Kathy and Becky's. 34 00:01:46,439 --> 00:01:48,159 It occurred to me that this was going to be 35 00:01:48,239 --> 00:01:52,120 the first year where we have had an answer in 36 00:01:52,159 --> 00:01:55,200 one of our cases. I told Bill, we absolutely have 37 00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,439 got to get Jeannette on the phone to talk a 38 00:01:57,439 --> 00:01:59,920 little bit about this, because this is the first time 39 00:02:00,239 --> 00:02:03,680 that any of the families here have answers. We just 40 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,480 wanted to get your thoughts on that this is the 41 00:02:06,519 --> 00:02:10,439 first year September nineteenth, that you'll have a definitive answer 42 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,159 as to what happened to Robin and David? How do 43 00:02:13,199 --> 00:02:13,879 you feel about that? 44 00:02:15,960 --> 00:02:24,039 Speaker 4: It's weird. I hadn't actually thought about that, fat, So 45 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:25,120 it's a little weird. 46 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,960 Speaker 2: So let's talk a little bit about what has transpired. 47 00:02:29,280 --> 00:02:32,199 Let's roll back a little bit. When did you find 48 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,280 out that a suspect had been identified in Robin and 49 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:36,120 David's case? 50 00:02:36,639 --> 00:02:38,879 Speaker 4: Early January twenty twenty four? 51 00:02:39,479 --> 00:02:42,759 Speaker 3: And was that just before the big press conference on 52 00:02:42,879 --> 00:02:43,680 January eighth? 53 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 4: Yep, it was the thursday before. 54 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:52,639 Speaker 2: Now had your Virginia State Police case agent. Had he 55 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:56,319 given you the heads up that something was coming? How 56 00:02:56,360 --> 00:02:59,120 did they let you know we have news and we 57 00:02:59,159 --> 00:03:01,199 want to talk to you and your family about it. 58 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 4: He reached out to us me specifically, wanted to meet 59 00:03:06,719 --> 00:03:11,240 with my mom and myself as soon as possible. So 60 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:14,120 of course that kind of had me a little scared 61 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:17,400 and worried. And he came over the next evening after 62 00:03:17,439 --> 00:03:19,680 I got off work and met with me and my mom, 63 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:24,080 And that was not what I was expecting to hear. 64 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:26,759 Speaker 2: Did he get right into it? And two of you, 65 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:31,159 obviously you and your mom are probably apprehensive. Did he 66 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,479 cut to the chase without a long build up. How 67 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,360 does he phrase me? 68 00:03:35,520 --> 00:03:40,439 Speaker 4: He kind of explained how the investigation had taken and 69 00:03:40,719 --> 00:03:44,919 about the DNA and how they had submitted it, and 70 00:03:45,840 --> 00:03:50,759 just the whole process of basically the last year building 71 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:56,719 up to getting a definitive suspect, and just he explained 72 00:03:56,759 --> 00:04:04,879 it and he said, we have identified item. And at 73 00:04:04,919 --> 00:04:12,479 that point everything went black. It kind of stopped making 74 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:18,240 sense for a moment. And then he had pictures of 75 00:04:18,319 --> 00:04:26,199 him and pictures of his truck, and so it was 76 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:34,879 just it was weird, to say the least. That was 77 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:42,879 the I expected, maybe we have advances in DNA, or 78 00:04:43,079 --> 00:04:47,639 we have a suspect, but no concrete. That's the kind 79 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:51,279 of stuff I was expecting because that's what we've gotten 80 00:04:51,959 --> 00:04:56,680 over the years. Yeah, so for it to have been 81 00:04:56,879 --> 00:05:03,759 solved was mind boggling. I called my sister, who lives 82 00:05:03,759 --> 00:05:11,480 in Missouri, and I couldn't even tell her. I just said, here, 83 00:05:11,519 --> 00:05:14,160 you have to talk to the police officer and I 84 00:05:14,199 --> 00:05:15,399 handed him the phone. 85 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:20,920 Speaker 2: Your investigator was still there when you were telling your sister, Yes, 86 00:05:22,639 --> 00:05:25,519 I'm trying to picture this. Is this at your house, your. 87 00:05:26,399 --> 00:05:28,040 Speaker 4: Mom's house, at my house. 88 00:05:29,199 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 2: Are you at sitting on the couch or are you 89 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:33,600 at the coffee table. Houses. 90 00:05:33,959 --> 00:05:40,199 Speaker 4: We're sitting in the den on the couch and he's 91 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:46,240 on the other couch, and it just he's showing us 92 00:05:46,319 --> 00:05:53,439 the pictures and explaining the process and what they had 93 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:59,639 been through earlier that day and how it came to 94 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,800 making sure he got over to see us that particular day. 95 00:06:04,439 --> 00:06:08,519 So it's all, sir, surreal still. 96 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,399 Speaker 2: I can imagine now. Would this have been a couple 97 00:06:10,439 --> 00:06:13,720 of days before the public press conference, which was on 98 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,000 January eighth, twenty twenty four, So this is a few 99 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:23,360 days prior to that. Yes, Were they concerned about leaks 100 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:26,040 about this getting out into the media before they were 101 00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,000 ready to announce it. 102 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:33,079 Speaker 4: Yes, they asked us not to tell anybody outside of 103 00:06:34,399 --> 00:06:39,439 the immediate family because of the press release, and let 104 00:06:39,519 --> 00:06:42,319 us know that how that was going to work and 105 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,959 that they were going to do that on that believe 106 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:50,000 that was a Monday. My sister and her husband actually 107 00:06:50,079 --> 00:06:51,279 drove from Missouri. 108 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:55,360 Speaker 2: Oh they did. I don't think I knew that. 109 00:06:56,839 --> 00:06:58,360 Speaker 4: Yep, they drove. 110 00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,399 Speaker 3: Did they request for you to be at the press 111 00:07:01,439 --> 00:07:03,800 conference or did you request to be there? 112 00:07:04,759 --> 00:07:09,120 Speaker 4: I think it was both. I think that we were 113 00:07:09,120 --> 00:07:15,879 given the choice, and I told him that basically, there 114 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:17,600 was no way in hell that I was going to 115 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:18,759 miss it. 116 00:07:19,319 --> 00:07:24,920 Speaker 3: Sure, I remember turning on the live feed and seeing 117 00:07:24,959 --> 00:07:28,240 you standing there, and that was the first of many 118 00:07:28,279 --> 00:07:30,120 times that day that I started to cry. 119 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:33,639 Speaker 2: We've had it described to us that there was a 120 00:07:33,720 --> 00:07:38,079 briefing with the families. Did they brief you again with 121 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:43,519 members of the Edwards, Nobling, Call and Haley families together? 122 00:07:44,319 --> 00:07:44,519 Speaker 4: No? 123 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,439 Speaker 2: Oh, so they were done separately. So in other words, 124 00:07:47,439 --> 00:07:51,040 we did the Edwards family and then and then the Noblings, 125 00:07:51,959 --> 00:07:55,000 so it was all done separately. How long would you 126 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,639 say you met with your investigator. 127 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,759 Speaker 4: For that Thursday night? He was what this for about 128 00:08:00,759 --> 00:08:01,199 an hour. 129 00:08:01,959 --> 00:08:04,879 Speaker 2: Knowing you pretty well. You work in the medical field. 130 00:08:05,079 --> 00:08:08,839 You've learned a fair amount about DNA and how forensics 131 00:08:08,959 --> 00:08:11,800 testing works. I know you're always a person has a 132 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:13,959 lot of questions. Were you able to get to the 133 00:08:13,959 --> 00:08:16,399 place where you're able to ask questions or were you 134 00:08:16,480 --> 00:08:19,959 still just dealing with this incredible news, which had to 135 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:21,480 be shocking and emotional. 136 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 4: Yeah. I was able to ask the questions that came 137 00:08:26,680 --> 00:08:30,399 to my brain at that time, right, and my mom 138 00:08:30,759 --> 00:08:34,279 of course had her own questions. He spent as much 139 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:37,720 time as we needed him to be there. He was 140 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:43,720 very compassionate and very thorough and answered anything we questioned. 141 00:08:44,519 --> 00:08:47,960 So it was even in a weird way of bonding moments. 142 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. 143 00:08:48,519 --> 00:08:49,360 Speaker 3: Sure. 144 00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:52,639 Speaker 2: I had always been very impressed with him as an 145 00:08:52,720 --> 00:08:55,440 investigator and as a human being. And I know you 146 00:08:55,519 --> 00:08:58,320 dealt with them more often than I did. He struck 147 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,799 me as a sharp young investigator. I've said to Christian, 148 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:04,879 he'd go get her. This is the way it felt 149 00:09:04,879 --> 00:09:08,200 when we talked to him maybe a year before that. 150 00:09:08,679 --> 00:09:11,919 He really wanted to see this case move forward and 151 00:09:12,159 --> 00:09:14,159 it was determined to see it through. 152 00:09:14,799 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 4: Yes, and you could tell it was very personal to him. 153 00:09:18,919 --> 00:09:21,840 Speaker 3: When you talk to your case agent. Did he also 154 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:25,440 mention Teresa Howell and her family? Was that the first 155 00:09:25,440 --> 00:09:28,279 that you'd heard of her name or were you familiar 156 00:09:28,320 --> 00:09:29,039 with her case? 157 00:09:30,360 --> 00:09:33,399 Speaker 4: Nope, first I've ever heard of her was that day? 158 00:09:35,159 --> 00:09:37,960 Speaker 2: And then did you ever meet Teresa Howell's family? 159 00:09:39,279 --> 00:09:41,120 Speaker 4: Yes? At the press conference? 160 00:09:43,679 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 2: Speaking of the press conference, by the way, were they 161 00:09:45,879 --> 00:09:49,720 things they asked you to say or not say at 162 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:50,600 the press conference? 163 00:09:51,639 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 4: We decided as a family because I know myself, when 164 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:04,039 my emotions get high, I tend to not be able 165 00:10:04,159 --> 00:10:14,000 to express myself by cry more and almost hyperventilate in 166 00:10:14,039 --> 00:10:18,960 those situations, and especially you talking about having cameras at 167 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,399 you when reporters. So we sat down with the state 168 00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:26,840 police and wrote out a statement from us, and the 169 00:10:26,879 --> 00:10:30,679 novelis added what they wanted to add, and we decided, 170 00:10:30,799 --> 00:10:35,759 is an entire group that we weren't going to speak. 171 00:10:36,399 --> 00:10:39,519 They gave us the opportunity that we could have spoken, 172 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,440 that we all decided that emotions were too high and 173 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:45,919 that it wouldn't have been pretty. 174 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:53,399 Speaker 2: Was that the first time you'd ever heard Alan Wade 175 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:55,519 Wilmer Sor's name? 176 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,799 Speaker 4: Yep, yep. 177 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 3: How much information did they give you about him? Did 178 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:08,039 they just say he's the perpetrator and here's what we 179 00:11:08,159 --> 00:11:10,159 know about him, or how much did you learn. 180 00:11:11,519 --> 00:11:16,840 Speaker 4: We learned that he had a shrimp boat and that 181 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,559 he did a lot of fishing, and that he had 182 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,960 a blue pickup truck, and that he lived over on 183 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:28,039 the eastern shore, but he was frequently on this side 184 00:11:28,039 --> 00:11:31,559 of the water, in the Newport News Yorktown kind of area. 185 00:11:31,879 --> 00:11:36,480 And then he explained how his DNA became part of 186 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:42,320 the system and how in his death the DNA was 187 00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,440 submitted and entered into the system. So he explained that 188 00:11:47,440 --> 00:11:55,919 that whole point of events from the neighbor calling and 189 00:11:56,000 --> 00:11:58,799 having people go to the house because of the funny 190 00:11:58,799 --> 00:12:03,919 smell coming from the house house and them finding him deceased, 191 00:12:04,120 --> 00:12:09,000 to the DNA and how that was uploaded and what 192 00:12:09,879 --> 00:12:17,080 made them run the DNA against his. So it was 193 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:19,600 a lot of It was a lot of information in 194 00:12:19,679 --> 00:12:20,879 that short amount of time. 195 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,759 Speaker 2: Can you be expanding that a little bit when you 196 00:12:24,799 --> 00:12:28,120 say ran the DNA against his? Did they say why 197 00:12:28,159 --> 00:12:28,879 they had done that? 198 00:12:31,399 --> 00:12:42,159 Speaker 4: And again, this my record. My recognition of exactly how 199 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:50,600 it unfolded was emotional at that time. But I guess 200 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:55,240 from my understanding he had been on the radar before 201 00:12:56,519 --> 00:13:04,000 and one of the other investigators had been looking at 202 00:13:04,159 --> 00:13:10,000 him for some of the other cases and was in 203 00:13:10,039 --> 00:13:19,759 touch with our agent and made a suggestion. And that's 204 00:13:19,960 --> 00:13:22,879 from what I remember how that transpired. 205 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 2: Did they give you any indication of when that was? 206 00:13:26,679 --> 00:13:28,240 When that took place. 207 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:33,440 Speaker 4: About a year. I want to say it was summer 208 00:13:33,879 --> 00:13:38,320 of twenty twenty three. That's the date that's sticking out 209 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:40,559 in my head. Now. I could be totally wrong, because, 210 00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:46,440 like I said, I was half hearing and half comprehending 211 00:13:46,799 --> 00:13:48,159 everything we talked about. 212 00:13:48,879 --> 00:13:52,679 Speaker 2: It's got to be overwhelming that summer twenty twenty three. 213 00:13:52,759 --> 00:13:55,240 Is what we've been told as well, is that the 214 00:13:56,000 --> 00:14:00,919 identification took place a couple of months prior to the announcement. 215 00:14:01,399 --> 00:14:03,879 One of the questions that's come up a lot, Janetta, 216 00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:06,399 and I don't know if you know the answer. Wilmer 217 00:14:06,639 --> 00:14:12,000 had this boat waterman, as you mentioned, he also had 218 00:14:12,519 --> 00:14:15,120 the blue truck that was in the pictures, as well 219 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:17,840 as access to other vehicles. Did they ever give you 220 00:14:17,879 --> 00:14:21,799 a clear idea of how they thought he got to 221 00:14:22,639 --> 00:14:26,320 the Ragged Island site? Did he come there by boat 222 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:27,440 or by vehicle? 223 00:14:28,080 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 4: They never definitively said, even in theory, So. 224 00:14:33,039 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 2: They didn't venture a guests or a theory about things 225 00:14:36,639 --> 00:14:42,639 like that. No, And then did they mention, as Kristen asked, 226 00:14:42,639 --> 00:14:45,840 did they mention Teresa Howell at that meeting at your 227 00:14:45,879 --> 00:14:49,120 family's home. Did they say, and there's another victim? 228 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:49,799 Speaker 4: Yes? 229 00:14:50,440 --> 00:14:54,399 Speaker 2: And how much information did they provide you on the 230 00:14:54,519 --> 00:14:58,399 Teresa Howell case, which is obviously new to you. 231 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,639 Speaker 4: Just turn when she was killed in the way she 232 00:15:03,799 --> 00:15:08,360 was killed with the similarities to Robin and David's case. 233 00:15:08,960 --> 00:15:11,360 But nothing really more than that. 234 00:15:11,919 --> 00:15:14,519 Speaker 3: And then at that point, I know, obviously your investigator 235 00:15:14,559 --> 00:15:18,840 can't speak to the various FBI cases. Were you in 236 00:15:18,919 --> 00:15:21,440 any way aware that at that point he had also 237 00:15:21,519 --> 00:15:24,399 been looked at for Keith Colin Sandy Haley. 238 00:15:24,679 --> 00:15:28,759 Speaker 4: Not at that time. Now now they did indicate that 239 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:32,240 they were not. I want to say that it was 240 00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,279 mentioned that it cannot be ruled out that there's involvement 241 00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:40,279 in any other case. I think that was almost the 242 00:15:40,399 --> 00:15:46,960 statement that was made, but no specifics to any particular case. 243 00:15:47,480 --> 00:15:51,120 But at that time, me and my mom even said 244 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:57,679 we wouldn't be shocked if he was responsible for more cases. 245 00:15:57,960 --> 00:16:01,960 And truly, I'm shocked at this point that we haven't 246 00:16:02,039 --> 00:16:06,279 heard of more victims, not only just in our cases 247 00:16:06,399 --> 00:16:10,919 but elsewhere. Halfway expected that they would start popping up 248 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:15,080 while he's responsible for this one, and I am shocked 249 00:16:15,159 --> 00:16:16,919 that hasn't happened. 250 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:19,960 Speaker 3: I still think it's going to. I think at some 251 00:16:20,039 --> 00:16:22,799 point or another there is going to be more and 252 00:16:22,840 --> 00:16:25,759 they'll have to start naming them. But I think it's 253 00:16:25,799 --> 00:16:29,039 probably still a while off. But yeah, I agree with you, Janette, 254 00:16:29,039 --> 00:16:31,960 I'm surprised it's taken this long for them to say, oh, 255 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:33,639 and also this one and this one. 256 00:16:33,919 --> 00:16:36,759 Speaker 2: Yes, I want to ask you to jump back in 257 00:16:36,919 --> 00:16:40,919 time with me for a minute, Jeanette. I recall it's 258 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:43,799 well over a year ago, it could be even two 259 00:16:43,919 --> 00:16:47,480 years ago that the Virginia State Police investigator had spoken 260 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:51,799 to you about his desire and his team's desire to 261 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,879 do advanced forensic testing on the rape kit. At the time, 262 00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,120 he told us there was a concern at the Virginia 263 00:16:59,159 --> 00:17:01,840 Department of Forensic Science those are the folks that won 264 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:05,200 the lab that the testing that they might do might 265 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:09,200 use the last of the DNA that was left. As 266 00:17:09,279 --> 00:17:13,880 I recall, tests have been done to that evidence over 267 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,319 the years, but some of those early tests consume the DNA. 268 00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:21,279 You and I had gotten word that testing was being conducted, 269 00:17:21,559 --> 00:17:26,079 and he expressed some concern that the testing might use 270 00:17:26,119 --> 00:17:29,720 the remaining small amount of highly degraded DNA. And I 271 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,200 remember talking to you about this, and you and I 272 00:17:32,279 --> 00:17:35,559 had the same attitude. Now, obviously Robin's not my sister, 273 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:39,319 she's yours, But I remember you saying something like no 274 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:42,079 time like the present, or if this is the last 275 00:17:42,119 --> 00:17:46,559 best shot we've got, we should move forward with this. Yes, 276 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,920 did he reference that those earlier conversations, which had been 277 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:52,680 at least a year before. 278 00:17:53,000 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 4: Now, now we didn't talk about that again half my 279 00:17:57,240 --> 00:18:02,039 brain working at that time, all those questions didn't come 280 00:18:02,079 --> 00:18:06,039 to mind until way later. It's crazy to look back 281 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,599 and go back in time to all that. 282 00:18:09,039 --> 00:18:11,079 Speaker 2: Did he ever circle back with you? In other words, 283 00:18:11,079 --> 00:18:15,319 have you spoken to your case agent since that January 284 00:18:15,319 --> 00:18:15,759 time frame? 285 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 3: Now? 286 00:18:16,839 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 4: And my daughter Robin is wanting to know more about 287 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:27,000 what was found when they went into his home. She's 288 00:18:27,160 --> 00:18:32,240 curious as to did he like some serial killers? Did 289 00:18:32,240 --> 00:18:37,319 he keep mementos? Did he keep souvenirs? If you will, 290 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:42,960 really curious about that part of the investigation. So I 291 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,039 do need to reach out to it because I'd like 292 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:45,319 to know. 293 00:18:45,559 --> 00:18:49,519 Speaker 3: Does it bother you that Wilmer cannot be punished for 294 00:18:49,599 --> 00:18:52,319 his crimes at this point because he died well ahead 295 00:18:52,359 --> 00:18:54,079 of time. Does that bother you at all? Or is 296 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,559 that just not even on your mind right now? 297 00:18:58,119 --> 00:19:02,519 Speaker 4: Yes? And no, there's some time that I was angry 298 00:19:02,839 --> 00:19:06,920 for a little while that he died without being punished, 299 00:19:07,359 --> 00:19:11,000 But then also part of me is glad that he died, 300 00:19:11,279 --> 00:19:15,480 because without him dying in the manner in which he did, 301 00:19:15,720 --> 00:19:19,960 his DNA probably wouldn't have been on file, and we 302 00:19:20,079 --> 00:19:23,720 might never have been to this point had he just 303 00:19:24,039 --> 00:19:27,519 become an old man and died a nursing home or 304 00:19:27,680 --> 00:19:29,160 in a hospital somewhere. 305 00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:31,680 Speaker 2: Now, it's a good point. I'd never thought about it 306 00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,839 in those terms. Him dying alone at home and not 307 00:19:34,920 --> 00:19:39,920 being identified right away resulted in them law enforcement testing 308 00:19:40,039 --> 00:19:43,359 his DNA to confirm that this person was him. I 309 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:45,240 never thought about it from that point of view. But 310 00:19:45,279 --> 00:19:48,359 you're right. If he hadn't died in that manner alone 311 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:53,160 at home, he might never have been tested for DNA 312 00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,880 right now. Do you feel that the testing that we 313 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,440 discussed a second ago, that was done months or even 314 00:20:00,480 --> 00:20:04,079 a year back, that your case agent talked to us about, 315 00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:08,000 do you feel like that testing led to this connection 316 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:13,000 between Wilmer and the evidence. Yes? So. Do you feel 317 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,799 like they listened to you? I remember you saying, look, 318 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,559 if this is our last best shot, let's take it. 319 00:20:19,079 --> 00:20:20,880 Did you feel like you were listened to? 320 00:20:21,279 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 4: Yeah? I do. 321 00:20:22,480 --> 00:20:24,240 Speaker 3: I do. That's got to feel good. 322 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 2: You're listening to Mind over Murder. We'll be right back 323 00:20:27,599 --> 00:20:33,160 after this word from our sponsors. We're back here at 324 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:36,240 mindover Murder. Before we get back to the podcast. Just 325 00:20:36,279 --> 00:20:38,720 wanted to remind you that we have a go fundme 326 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,559 effort going on right now. This campaign is designed to 327 00:20:42,559 --> 00:20:46,519 help us raise funds to help promote mindover Murder and 328 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:52,279 specifically to push the Colonial Parkway murders investigation forward. We'd 329 00:20:52,319 --> 00:20:54,319 love it if you could support us in any way 330 00:20:54,319 --> 00:20:58,480 that you can. Any donation from five dollars to whatever 331 00:20:58,519 --> 00:21:01,240 you can afford is very much appreciated and will be 332 00:21:01,279 --> 00:21:04,319 incredibly helpful. The link is in the show notes and 333 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:09,079 in our social media pages. As always, thanks for your support. 334 00:21:09,519 --> 00:21:13,559 Now back to Mind over Murder. How often, if ever, 335 00:21:13,799 --> 00:21:17,359 would you talk to the members of the Nobling family. 336 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:20,440 Is that a conversation that happens or doesn't happen? 337 00:21:21,119 --> 00:21:24,759 Speaker 4: It doesn't really happen. I am friends with Michael on 338 00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:27,559 Facebook and Science. Yeah, get to follow his life and 339 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,640 to actually really sit down with them. That hasn't happened 340 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:32,640 since Carl. 341 00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:36,039 Speaker 2: Passed, and Carl's the father who passed away a couple 342 00:21:36,119 --> 00:21:39,519 of years ago. Yes, one of my small regrets in 343 00:21:39,559 --> 00:21:43,400 this case is I've obviously met most of the people involved, 344 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,880 but I never met Carl. He struck me as a 345 00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:50,160 real character. It was everything I've heard. 346 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 4: It's such a good heart too. He was very compassionate. 347 00:21:55,119 --> 00:21:58,640 When our families used to get together on the holidays 348 00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,680 and stuff, we would go over to their house. I 349 00:22:01,759 --> 00:22:05,599 remember we went swimming at their pool a couple of times, 350 00:22:05,839 --> 00:22:10,319 and he was always so caring, always worried about my mom. 351 00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:11,799 Speaker 2: Oh, it's very sweet. 352 00:22:12,839 --> 00:22:13,680 Speaker 4: He was a good guy. 353 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,039 Speaker 2: So do you feel like Carl the dad was the 354 00:22:17,079 --> 00:22:22,079 catalyst for some of those to get togethers yes, I do. Everything. 355 00:22:22,240 --> 00:22:24,400 We've heard about him and read about him, and of 356 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:27,200 course we talked to family members. He just sounds like 357 00:22:27,319 --> 00:22:31,200 such a wonderful guy. Watching him on video and interviews, 358 00:22:31,319 --> 00:22:37,160 it's a southern Santa Claus vibe going on, and he 359 00:22:37,319 --> 00:22:40,440 just seemed like such a sweet, kind man and just 360 00:22:40,599 --> 00:22:42,559 a character. I can't think of another word. 361 00:22:42,799 --> 00:22:46,400 Speaker 3: You were talking about this sense of how everything felt surreal, 362 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:49,480 and I can really only imagine how surreal that must 363 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:53,319 have been in the months since. How are things feeling now, 364 00:22:53,440 --> 00:22:58,119 are you guys adapting to the news? Is life returning 365 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:01,000 to normal? I imagine that for the first couple of 366 00:23:01,039 --> 00:23:04,599 weeks when people started getting updates, you were probably inundated 367 00:23:04,680 --> 00:23:06,240 with a lot of media. 368 00:23:06,079 --> 00:23:10,039 Speaker 4: Calls from family friends and stuff like that, just family friends. 369 00:23:10,079 --> 00:23:13,759 The media actually left us alone, and I'm oh, wow, 370 00:23:14,279 --> 00:23:18,680 I was really shocked. I halfway expected for my phone 371 00:23:18,720 --> 00:23:22,559 to be like blowing up. I did do an interview 372 00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:25,240 with one of the local stations here. 373 00:23:25,279 --> 00:23:30,200 Speaker 3: And Wavy, right. Yes, I actually remember watching that on TV. 374 00:23:30,839 --> 00:23:33,319 Actually the day I was in the hospital with my boyfriend. 375 00:23:33,319 --> 00:23:35,240 He'd had to go to the emergency room, and I 376 00:23:35,279 --> 00:23:37,839 looked up in the corner of the TV at Mary 377 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,039 Immaculated there you were, and I was like, oh my gosh, 378 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:43,000 I'm have to go catch that somehow. But I do 379 00:23:43,119 --> 00:23:45,000 remember seeing you on WAVY. 380 00:23:45,519 --> 00:23:49,400 Speaker 4: So that's the only interview that I have done since then. 381 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,839 Speaker 2: Was that something that you and your mom and your 382 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:57,000 sister you wanted to step back from you? That wasn't something. 383 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:01,160 Speaker 4: At the day of the press conference, Yes, but I 384 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:05,839 would have been open for questions and stuff after we 385 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:10,160 had time to process. That's why I didn't do that 386 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,759 interview right away. My mom absolutely refused. She didn't want 387 00:24:15,799 --> 00:24:20,200 to be in the public spotlight anymore. I was okay 388 00:24:20,319 --> 00:24:23,440 with talking about it at that time, and it was 389 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:25,640 a good time to do the interview. 390 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 2: And how about now some months have gone by. How 391 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:34,359 are you feeling about things in general? Depends on the day, man, sure, 392 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:36,559 I get it. 393 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,000 Speaker 4: Depends on the day. I can be totally fine talking 394 00:24:40,039 --> 00:24:43,799 about it and talking to people that I don't see 395 00:24:43,839 --> 00:24:46,480 every day or talk to every day about it, and 396 00:24:46,799 --> 00:24:49,880 there will be a time where somebody asked me a 397 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:54,559 question and it's instant tears. So it just it depends 398 00:24:54,599 --> 00:24:55,160 on the day. 399 00:24:55,559 --> 00:24:57,799 Speaker 3: And I realized that I made you cry with the 400 00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:00,960 very first question that I asked you. I'm so sorry 401 00:25:01,039 --> 00:25:05,200 about this, Okay, but it's I can imagine surreal still 402 00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:09,000 being the adjective that applies to this situation. I can't 403 00:25:09,039 --> 00:25:12,720 even imagine what that's like to suddenly have answers after 404 00:25:12,759 --> 00:25:16,640 all these years. Would you say that finding out about 405 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:19,680 what actually happened to Robin and David has that improved 406 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:20,279 your life? 407 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:25,440 Speaker 4: It's made me be able to relax in the fact 408 00:25:25,559 --> 00:25:29,880 that he can't hurt anybody else. It's made me not 409 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:35,000 fear society less. But my girls will tell you, as 410 00:25:35,039 --> 00:25:40,960 they became teenagers, starting to get thirteen, near nearing fourteen, 411 00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:44,559 I was the helicopter mom. I need to know where 412 00:25:44,599 --> 00:25:46,480 you are and what you're doing, Who are you with, 413 00:25:46,920 --> 00:25:49,359 where are you going, I need to know, I need 414 00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:55,640 to know everything because of this incident. And I've been 415 00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,319 that way with my girls and my granddaughters and even 416 00:26:00,599 --> 00:26:05,119 my grandson's. So the relief of knowing that there's not 417 00:26:05,279 --> 00:26:09,599 a person out there that's going to target any other 418 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,359 family members has almost been a relief, if you will. 419 00:26:13,759 --> 00:26:17,079 So that has been helpful. 420 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,640 Speaker 3: Kind of a weight off your shoulders. Yes, it's a 421 00:26:20,759 --> 00:26:22,440 long time to carry that weight too. 422 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, how does Robin your daughter's curiosity manifest itself? She 423 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,039 is she starting to ask questions. 424 00:26:33,599 --> 00:26:36,519 Speaker 4: Yes, now that she's finished with nursing. 425 00:26:36,279 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 2: School, Wow, that's exciting. 426 00:26:40,039 --> 00:26:42,200 Speaker 4: She's got a little more time, Not that you have 427 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:48,240 time with two toddlers. So she's asking questions, Hey, to 428 00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:51,880 do ever hear any more? What's going on with that? 429 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,359 Can you find out? So? And she's the kind of 430 00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:58,200 person where if she gets something in her head, it's 431 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,880 not going to rest until she g's that answer. 432 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:03,480 Speaker 2: And so that might bring about a phone call from 433 00:27:03,519 --> 00:27:05,559 you to your investigator to check in. 434 00:27:06,319 --> 00:27:08,400 Speaker 4: Yeah, she actually mentioned it this morning. 435 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:13,799 Speaker 2: Oh that's interesting. Yeah, and maybe with some time having 436 00:27:13,839 --> 00:27:17,319 a lapsed since the original news back in January, but 437 00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:21,680 it's obviously still on her mind. Yes, her kids are 438 00:27:21,799 --> 00:27:25,039 little there, they wouldn't understand any of this conversation. 439 00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:26,759 Speaker 4: Correct. 440 00:27:27,079 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 2: Does it feel good that your daughter followed you into 441 00:27:29,759 --> 00:27:32,759 the medical field. You both work in medicine. 442 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 4: Yeah, I have two nurses. Two of my daughters are nurses. 443 00:27:36,559 --> 00:27:38,319 Speaker 2: My mom is a nurse too, So I have a 444 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:41,519 real soft spot for people that work in the medical field, 445 00:27:41,559 --> 00:27:44,240 and I think it's incredibly important. So are they both 446 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:48,240 practicing now? You mentioned Robin has young kids. 447 00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,319 Speaker 4: Yeah, she works in the hospital here and New Poor News, 448 00:27:52,519 --> 00:27:56,519 And so does my oldest daughter. And Robin is actually 449 00:27:56,599 --> 00:28:01,039 back in school to get her r N. Now she's 450 00:28:01,039 --> 00:28:04,200 got her LPN and now she's going for her ran. 451 00:28:04,599 --> 00:28:05,200 Speaker 2: Good for her. 452 00:28:05,319 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 4: She's great working and going to school and raising two boys. 453 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 2: That sounds like a full life, a. 454 00:28:16,039 --> 00:28:18,880 Speaker 3: Very full life. Yes, this has been such a long 455 00:28:18,920 --> 00:28:22,359 time coming for you guys, and I'm so happy. Oops, 456 00:28:22,559 --> 00:28:25,000 I'm getting a little choked up to Yeah. I'm so 457 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:28,079 happy for you guys. But it took a while for 458 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:30,039 it to get to this point, for you all to 459 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:32,960 have answers. We know that there are families out there, 460 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,240 some of them still Colonial Parkway murders, families who are 461 00:28:36,240 --> 00:28:39,440 waiting for answers. What would you say to families that 462 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,440 are still waiting for answers in their loved ones cases, 463 00:28:42,839 --> 00:28:45,160 especially if it's a long wait like y'all's. 464 00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:49,279 Speaker 4: Was never give up hope, we least expected it could 465 00:28:49,319 --> 00:28:53,440 be the break that we've needed. I've always said since 466 00:28:53,519 --> 00:28:58,240 we were classified as the Colonial Parkway murders that even 467 00:28:58,279 --> 00:29:02,240 if one case got solved, it would be a win 468 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:03,200 for all of us. 469 00:29:03,839 --> 00:29:04,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, I've said the same thing. 470 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:08,240 Speaker 4: I never imagined that it would be our case that 471 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:12,160 was solved first, and I say first, but had it 472 00:29:12,279 --> 00:29:15,359 been one of the other cases, I still would have 473 00:29:15,359 --> 00:29:18,359 felt the same way that it was a win for 474 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:19,000 all of us. 475 00:29:19,839 --> 00:29:23,000 Speaker 2: I could not agree more. We're so thrilled for you. 476 00:29:23,359 --> 00:29:26,000 I can ask you this question. When you've been looking 477 00:29:26,039 --> 00:29:29,200 for answers for as long as you have, Now that 478 00:29:29,279 --> 00:29:32,440 you've had some time to process and maybe this will 479 00:29:32,480 --> 00:29:35,000 take the rest of your life to totally figure this out, 480 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,400 do you regard this news as good news? 481 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:45,400 Speaker 4: Mostly? Yes, I always wanted my mom to be laid 482 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:50,200 to rest, with the fact of knowing who killed my sister, 483 00:29:50,839 --> 00:29:55,799 and that has happened. Getting up in age, and I 484 00:29:55,880 --> 00:30:00,200 was scared because my dad passed away before we got 485 00:30:00,039 --> 00:30:03,200 any kind of closure. I did not want that to 486 00:30:03,279 --> 00:30:06,559 be the same case for my mom. 487 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:12,519 Speaker 2: So mostly yes, and your mom's attitude towards this is 488 00:30:12,559 --> 00:30:13,160 it similar. 489 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,759 Speaker 4: Yes, she said nothing can bring her back, of course, 490 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,240 but knowing that he can't hurt anybody else is the 491 00:30:22,279 --> 00:30:24,920 biggest plus in her book. 492 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:33,200 Speaker 3: Jeanette, I've I've been muting myself. I'm crying, and all right, 493 00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:41,359 it's all happy tears. I did not foresee myself getting 494 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,599 this emotional. Jeanette. We're so thrilled for you, really we are, 495 00:30:45,759 --> 00:30:48,720 and it has been such a pleasure of being able 496 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:52,279 to talk to you today about this, because this really 497 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:54,119 is as I said at the top, this is the 498 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:58,000 first anniversary where we have answers, and we consider that 499 00:30:58,039 --> 00:31:00,880 a win all of us. So thank you for joining 500 00:31:00,920 --> 00:31:02,960 us and for being willing to talk to us about it, 501 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:04,400 even though I know I made you cry it a 502 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:04,880 little bit. 503 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:11,559 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely, I'm glad I did it. I'm glad that 504 00:31:11,599 --> 00:31:15,720 we've gotten to talk and it helps my soul. 505 00:31:19,079 --> 00:31:22,359 Speaker 3: Thank you so much, Jeannette. We really appreciate you and 506 00:31:22,759 --> 00:31:23,839 we love you very much. 507 00:31:25,839 --> 00:31:26,920 Speaker 4: Love y'all guys too. 508 00:31:28,160 --> 00:31:29,759 Speaker 3: That is going to do it for this episode of 509 00:31:29,759 --> 00:31:32,799 mind Over Murder. Thank you so much for listening. We'll 510 00:31:32,799 --> 00:31:33,519 see you next time. 511 00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:46,480 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is a production of Absolute Zero and 512 00:31:46,559 --> 00:31:47,960 Another Dog Productions. 513 00:31:48,559 --> 00:31:51,880 Speaker 2: Our executive producers are Bill Thomas and Kristin Dilley. 514 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:54,640 Speaker 1: Our logo art is by Pamela Arnois. 515 00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:57,319 Speaker 2: Our theme music is by Kevin McLeod. 516 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,759 Speaker 1: Mind Over Murder is distributed in partnership with Coral Space Media. 517 00:32:02,559 --> 00:32:05,720 Speaker 2: You can follow us on Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram. 518 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:08,519 Speaker 1: You can also follow our page on the Colonial Parkway 519 00:32:08,599 --> 00:32:10,400 Murders on Facebook. 520 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:13,200 Speaker 2: And finally, you can follow Bill Thomas on Twitter at 521 00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:14,880 Bill Thomas five six. 522 00:32:15,359 --> 00:32:18,279 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to mind Over Murder.