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Speaker 1: Erow dot net a r r o e dot net.

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It is the home of the Daily Mess. Come on,

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we all have questions, we ask them every day. Our

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fault and our problem is is that we don't write

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them down and finish out the research project. So what

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do we do? We mop around? Oh it's so boring,

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look that up. Why are we bored with life?

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Speaker 2: See?

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Speaker 1: That's what the Daily Mess is all about. It is

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asking real people questions and getting real people answers. Only

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on ero dot net A R r oe dot net.

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Enjoy your exploration him Hell Loen, good morning you too.

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How are you doing today?

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Speaker 2: Very well?

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Speaker 1: I gotta tell you. I can't thank you enough for this.

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And the reason why is because my wife is a

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retired teacher. I lived and breathed the library. But as

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of late we all know why we're not all jumping

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in there because I don't want someone to push their

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agenda onto us. But this what this documentary does on PBS,

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it says, do not ever go in there and judge

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the librarian. It's not their fault. And that's what I love.

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That's what I picked up on this is that it's

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the community that's making the changes. It's not the librarians,

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that's correct.

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Speaker 3: I'm jumping in here to say what I learned as

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a person outside the space and starting to document this

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four years ago. These are trained professionals who provide such

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an important service to us, and are trained in age

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appropriate materials, in representation and all of these amazing things.

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And unfortunately, with the escalation of this attack on our

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freedom of expression, they have now become the firewall. They

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didn't ask to do that. In essence, they are now

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these incredible patriots in my mind and heroes of upholding

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all the tenets of American democracy and protecting our First

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Amendment rights.

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Speaker 1: One of the things. And I'm not going to lie

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to you. I cried real tears because I'm blessed with

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the opportunity to speak with all of these ya authors

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that are releasing books right now, and we do talk

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about them being banned. They've learned to laugh it off. Yeah,

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I just got another stripe on my arm and I go,

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how can you be laughing about this? Because there's always

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a bookstore? And I went, you're taking them away from

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the library. How do you feel about that?

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Speaker 4: So I think that is a it's a common mental

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mistake that people make when it comes to the idea

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that well, these aren't really being banned, they're just being

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taken out of school libraries, and so therefore they're still available.

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You know, anybody can go to Amazon or a bookstore.

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But the thing is that we forget that not everyone

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has the same access to resources. While yes, I can

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go and purchase you know, the latest dog Man book

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for my son on you know, Amazon or you know

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bookshop dot org, not every parent has the expendable funds

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to do so. And so what we're essentially doing is

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furthering the divide when it comes to access to resources

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and information, because not only are the libraries the books

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on the shelves under attack, the libraries themselves are under attack.

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And we are seeing across the country the cutting of

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library staff, the elimination of school libraries, and it's it's

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really terrible, and even classroom libraries have been under fire

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through this.

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Speaker 3: I just wanted to jump in and say, it isn't

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just the school libraries. You know, four years ago when

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I started, one of our libraries said we are the

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canaries in the coal mine. This is like a trojan horse.

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And she was so right, because here we are four

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years later. It's the public libraries, it's the museums, it's

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the it's the institutions.

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Speaker 2: Of higher learning.

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Speaker 3: I just had a conversation lest you think that you know,

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these books are safe in the bookstores with the someone

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from you know, representing the American Bookseller Association, and there's

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fear that there will be censorship in the books in

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the independent bookstores themselves. So I don't think it's I

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think that we have to question really all these places

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in the food chain, if you will, of where our

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books land.

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Speaker 1: You know, one of the things that I have to

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give you, guys, big kudos on is the fact that

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you take both sides of the fans. You show us

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these books that do have some things in there, and

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my wife and I looked at each other, going, WHOA, Well,

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I didn't know and so, but then she would say, well,

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how do you feel about that? You can't judge another

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person's a reason for reading a book. Don't take it

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away from them. It's like, no matter how much you

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unveiled to me, I believe that people deserve to have

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the right to see it.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's also built into our constitutional precedence setting legal

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cases like Peekoversus Island Treadings which established these things. And

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I think what a lot of the public doesn't understand

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is there have always been parental rights.

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Speaker 2: And I have not met one librarian.

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Speaker 3: Who has not who's either said before this there were

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almost zero challenges, but there was a process. And now

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that process, in that protocol has been brazenly broken of

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just taking the books like you know, no due process

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and dictating a minority of people are able in a town.

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Sometimes it's in Julie's case, you know, one individual who

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could dictated what a lot of kids could or couldn't read.

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So don't you know it's the parental rights should be flipped.

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Speaker 2: Don't tell me what you know. I can, my kids

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can have to read.

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Speaker 1: Please do not move. There's more with Julie Miller and

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Kim Snyder coming up next the name of the documentary

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The Librarians from PBS. We are back with Julie Miller

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and Kim Snyder. You know one of the things that

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my Wipe the school teacher, brought up and I thought,

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my god, that's exactly why you're a school teacher. She said,

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well what about the dictionary? And she goes, you're a guy.

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As a little boy, you would look up words in

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that dictionary and giggle. She's right, there's stuff in that dictionary.

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Do they get to stay?

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Speaker 4: So, actually, dictionaries have been challenged, Wow, in different districts.

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It's not new. That did happen previously. I probably in

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the eighties or nineties, I don't remember the exactly, but yeah,

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parents being upset that their child looked up definitions of

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dirty words. But yeah, it's it's the thing is that

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when we are talking about opening the door to censorship, like,

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where does that take us? Because that's that's actual information. Dictionaries,

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books that deal with comprehensive sexual education, which is often

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in school's like mine, not even taught in schools anymore.

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So we're denying students access to information that even its

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just about Books about race are under attack here. Books

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that deal with the history of racism in our country

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are being targeted. Because this is not about inappropriate content.

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There isn't pornography in school libraries. By the way, you

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can access it on phones, which most of these teens

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and preteens have in their pockets. But that's beside the point.

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But when it comes to access to materials, this isn't

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just about sexual content or what have you. It's about

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marginalized people, and it is about like shutting out diversity

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of voices, and beyond that, it takes it into freedom

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in general, freedom of it expression Because where were the

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canaries in the coal mine here? This may have started

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with school libraries, but I think anybody could see that

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this has gone far beyond libraries, public libraries, bookstores. You know,

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we're seeing the creed of infringement on our freedoms.

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Speaker 1: And you proved this is not a new millennium thing.

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This has been going on all the way back to McCarthyism.

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And that's why this documentary is so important because you

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don't just say here's what's going on today, No, you

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showcase the journey.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, we really I tried as a documentarian to reflect

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the journey that I took and to reflect that back

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in following an odyssey, if you will, of librarians that

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traverse a number of states and even New Jersey up north.

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Because less you think this is just happening in Texas

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and Florida, we have not played this in one state,

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and there have been many where someone hasn't said this

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is happening, right, here, So we're hoping people take the

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cues from these heroic individuals like Julie and others flanking

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them to get involved locally, because censorship is actually something

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where the policies are often dictated in very hyper local ways,

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So we want people It's not a partisan message. I

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don't feel the film is that. I think most Americans

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feel that censorship is just fundamentally un American. They know

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the dangers of what it's meant in history, and people

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should show up and vote in their school board elections,

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get involved in the library boards, in local city councils,

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and understand what's happening in your community around this issue.

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Speaker 1: And it really does filter through everything from pamphlets that

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are at businesses. It is being censored as well. Even

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as a podcaster, I rely on what I call hidden

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speak to make sure that they don't come and shut

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my butt down because they well, it's coming, but it

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has to start at the library first. But it is coming.

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Speaker 2: That's why we say it's a trojan horse.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, wow. Where can people go to find out

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more about what you guys are doing? Because this is

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an everyday thing. This is why PBS is so brilliant.

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In our lives because they make it about our now

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and beyond.

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Speaker 2: I couldn't agree with you more.

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Speaker 3: I couldn't support I've made three films with PBS and

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independent lens.

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Speaker 2: It's an amazing strand we're so thrilled to be.

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Speaker 3: Broadcasting on February ninth.

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Speaker 2: On independent lens and YouTube channels.

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Speaker 3: And we also have a website, the librariansfilm dot Com,

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where people could learn more about our impact campaign and

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how we're really creating a movement. I call it Librarians

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without Borders. But we have seen this support, as Julie

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mentioned earlier, across our borders in Canada and Europe. People

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are concerned that we're supporting this, and uh, we're We're

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thrilled to be having this tool to organize and get

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people involved. Wow.

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Speaker 1: Well, please come back to this show anytime in the future.

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The door is always going to be open for you.

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Speaker 2: We thank you so much for having us.

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Speaker 1: You'd be brilliant today.

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Speaker 2: Okay, you two, thank you. You did the same