WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.760 --> 00:00:03.680 You're listening to an air Wave Media podcast. 2 00:00:04.719 --> 00:00:08.160 The ten Million Dollars Bigfoot Bounty is over. This show 3 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:11.800 has spoilers, This show has the S word. This show 4 00:00:11.839 --> 00:00:14.839 has the most astonishing pun I've ever managed. On Monster Talk, 5 00:00:15.320 --> 00:00:18.719 We've got DNA, we've got NDAs, we've got A and 6 00:00:18.839 --> 00:00:21.320 d's join us as we talk with doctor Todd des 7 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:25.719 Hotel and Natalia Reagan about their experiences as scientists. In 8 00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:31.239 episode eighty four, New MT on the Bounty. 9 00:00:31.239 --> 00:00:33.920 It's actually quite unlike anything we've ever seen before. 10 00:00:36.039 --> 00:00:37.560 A giant, hairy creature. 11 00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:42.840 Part eight part mats in Luckness, a twenty four mile long, 12 00:00:42.880 --> 00:00:44.920 bottomless lake in the Highlands of Scotland. 13 00:00:45.240 --> 00:00:47.679 It's a creature known as the Luckness Monster. 14 00:01:09.680 --> 00:01:10.200 Monster. 15 00:01:12.079 --> 00:01:15.640 Welcome to Monster Talk, an official podcast of Skeptic Magazine. 16 00:01:15.719 --> 00:01:18.439 I'm your host Blake Smith and today doctor Karen Stolslow 17 00:01:18.439 --> 00:01:20.799 and I will revisit the scientists who joined us back 18 00:01:20.799 --> 00:01:23.760 in episode seventy six, just before the premiere of the 19 00:01:23.799 --> 00:01:27.159 Spike TV TV show The ten Million Dollars big Foot Bounty. 20 00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:30.319 Doctor Todd Desottel was our very first guest on this show, 21 00:01:30.519 --> 00:01:32.280 and as one of the best known scientists looking at 22 00:01:32.319 --> 00:01:36.239 Bigfoot evidence today. He's an expert primatologist and DNA researcher 23 00:01:36.239 --> 00:01:39.959 who teaches it NYU that Tyier Reagan is an anthropologist 24 00:01:39.959 --> 00:01:42.519 and comedian as well as a science promoter. Together, they 25 00:01:42.599 --> 00:01:45.120 joined Dean Kan, who's perhaps most famous for his portrayal 26 00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:47.519 of Superman on the TV show Lewis and Clark as 27 00:01:47.640 --> 00:01:51.519 judges of the contestants seeking Bigfoot on the show. Will 28 00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:53.599 reveal the outcome of the show in this interview, So 29 00:01:53.680 --> 00:01:55.879 if you want to watch the eight episodes first, they're 30 00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:58.439 all available on Spike TV's website, and a link to 31 00:01:58.480 --> 00:02:00.040 that is in our show notes It Muster. 32 00:01:59.799 --> 00:02:02.159 Talk, do Mobsttle. 33 00:02:03.439 --> 00:02:06.480 We want to welcome back Todd Desotel and Italia Reagan, 34 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:09.919 who recently did the ten million dollars big Foot Bounty 35 00:02:09.919 --> 00:02:10.719 television show. 36 00:02:10.840 --> 00:02:12.400 So the show's over and we would like. 37 00:02:12.360 --> 00:02:14.879 To talk about how they felt about the outcome, So 38 00:02:14.960 --> 00:02:18.039 welcome back to Monster Talk. I think the number one 39 00:02:18.120 --> 00:02:20.360 question I expect our listeners are wondering is do you 40 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:23.000 think the science messages that you talked about trying to 41 00:02:23.000 --> 00:02:28.400 communicate were successfully able to survive the editing process to. 42 00:02:28.240 --> 00:02:31.560 A degree, not as much as obviously we would have liked, 43 00:02:33.319 --> 00:02:37.639 you know, for every minute of science that actually made 44 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:40.599 it on the air, you know, we film, you know, 45 00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:45.240 minutes to our's worth, and in the final edit a 46 00:02:45.280 --> 00:02:49.080 lot of it was sort of dramatically reduced. So I 47 00:02:49.240 --> 00:02:53.680 was a little disappointed with that, but I do think 48 00:02:53.800 --> 00:02:54.800 we did get. 49 00:02:54.800 --> 00:02:57.479 Some of our main points across pretty well. 50 00:02:58.000 --> 00:03:00.680 Yeah, I feel like there's a fight between science and 51 00:03:00.719 --> 00:03:03.599 spectacle when you have any sort of reality television show. 52 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:07.159 And for as much science as we filmed, there were hours, 53 00:03:07.319 --> 00:03:11.919 countless hours of whether it was real or generated drama 54 00:03:12.000 --> 00:03:16.599 between contestants that, of course the American public feasts upon. 55 00:03:16.759 --> 00:03:19.000 And so as much as we wanted more science to 56 00:03:19.039 --> 00:03:20.960 get out there, I think they did the best they 57 00:03:21.000 --> 00:03:23.000 could with what they could do. And that's why we 58 00:03:23.120 --> 00:03:26.479 produced the web series called Talking Shit with Doctor Todd Natalia, 59 00:03:26.719 --> 00:03:29.039 hoping to kind of get out the core messages we 60 00:03:29.080 --> 00:03:31.319 wanted to get out on the show, not knowing it 61 00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:33.919 was kind of a preemptive attempt to get the science 62 00:03:33.960 --> 00:03:36.680 out there, without knowing how much would make the show. 63 00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:38.840 Spinal cut, that's a very fitting name. 64 00:03:39.080 --> 00:03:40.360 We'll link to that in the show notes. 65 00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:43.000 Did they producers, if I say, do it at some 66 00:03:43.120 --> 00:03:46.000 points less science, guys, and more drama. 67 00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:49.159 Not to us, because I couldn't do less science. 68 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:55.680 I was doing DNA analyses and Natalia was out in 69 00:03:55.719 --> 00:03:58.199 the field with them trying to make sure that they 70 00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:01.960 follow sort of the proper protocol, so there was really 71 00:04:02.000 --> 00:04:04.319 no way to sort of step that down. 72 00:04:04.680 --> 00:04:06.159 Where it came out. 73 00:04:06.360 --> 00:04:09.319 Was at the end of every episode, in the so 74 00:04:09.400 --> 00:04:10.840 called elimination. 75 00:04:10.439 --> 00:04:11.800 Round, where. 76 00:04:13.280 --> 00:04:15.400 You know, they would bring up each team, they would 77 00:04:15.400 --> 00:04:18.680 say something for a minute and Natalia or I and 78 00:04:18.759 --> 00:04:24.560 sometimes Dean would just sort of summarily dismiss them or 79 00:04:24.600 --> 00:04:29.720 say good work. And that's where I think a lot 80 00:04:29.759 --> 00:04:33.199 of the people who criticized the show seem to think 81 00:04:33.279 --> 00:04:37.199 that that's all we did, when in reality we did. 82 00:04:37.000 --> 00:04:37.680 A lot more. 83 00:04:38.120 --> 00:04:39.759 As much as you dealt with poop. It seems like 84 00:04:39.800 --> 00:04:41.439 every round was an elimination round. 85 00:04:43.800 --> 00:04:47.879 That's a nice one, Like, you know what, I I 86 00:04:47.920 --> 00:04:51.800 thought of that, Zach, Wow. 87 00:04:51.319 --> 00:04:56.399 Thanks, I've never done them. 88 00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:01.720 We had every other word and joke for it, but 89 00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:06.000 I never ever made the connection to the elimination. 90 00:05:06.279 --> 00:05:07.399 It was a real show. 91 00:05:07.560 --> 00:05:11.519 But yeah, he needed like there, I think as a consultant, Yeah, exactly, 92 00:05:11.720 --> 00:05:14.600 And it was great because they wanted to include as 93 00:05:14.759 --> 00:05:17.000 some humor in the elimination round. 94 00:05:17.000 --> 00:05:18.519 And so, you know, Todd and I would do our 95 00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:20.600 best to come up with any sort of jokes we 96 00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:23.720 would see with the samples that came in, and and 97 00:05:23.720 --> 00:05:26.879 and the thing is, because it's such a the elimination round, 98 00:05:26.920 --> 00:05:29.079 it ends up being edited down to seven minutes or so. 99 00:05:29.319 --> 00:05:33.480 That night. Usually we shot for maybe nine hours, and 100 00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:36.759 each team would bring in between five to six, sometimes 101 00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:40.199 even more samples. So we literally sat down and talked 102 00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:42.720 to them about every sample, went down and actually gave 103 00:05:42.759 --> 00:05:46.839 them notes and critique their elimination and great depth and detail. 104 00:05:46.920 --> 00:05:49.120 And at a certain point you can only say so 105 00:05:49.199 --> 00:05:53.560 much about you know, the poop that they brought in exactly, 106 00:05:53.639 --> 00:05:56.160 and it's hard to really give the qualitative notes on 107 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:56.839 their bear shit. 108 00:05:57.160 --> 00:05:58.439 You know, they can only show so much. 109 00:05:58.480 --> 00:06:00.199 So we try to, you know, put in as much 110 00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:04.079 information as we could with each sample and hopefully include 111 00:06:04.360 --> 00:06:06.279 a little bit of humor, although they really white for 112 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:10.480 the serious, dramatic donn dah side of the elimination. 113 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:12.720 Oh yeah, yeah, that's what came across. But I can't 114 00:06:12.759 --> 00:06:15.000 believe that nine hours down to seven minutes. 115 00:06:15.199 --> 00:06:16.920 Yeah, I mean, I don't know if the elimination is 116 00:06:16.959 --> 00:06:18.720 exactly that, but it's it's not that long. 117 00:06:18.759 --> 00:06:19.439 But yeah, we would. 118 00:06:19.519 --> 00:06:24.160 We would freeze await nights. We were out there till 119 00:06:24.439 --> 00:06:25.920 past three in the morning. 120 00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.800 We had to wait for dark, and it would go 121 00:06:29.000 --> 00:06:33.360 till three in the morning. Every time the camera stopped rolling, 122 00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:36.959 you know, the three of us would just huddle around that. 123 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:40.759 Fire pit because it was just balln on in cold. 124 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:42.800 At least for Deane and I. I don't know what 125 00:06:43.040 --> 00:06:43.920 Natalia felt. 126 00:06:44.839 --> 00:06:47.680 Why just shaking in their shelves. 127 00:06:48.199 --> 00:06:50.480 That's That's a great lead into this question that I have. 128 00:06:51.079 --> 00:06:54.199 Did Dean kin did he seem unusually weak or ill 129 00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:56.079 during the evening shoots? 130 00:06:56.480 --> 00:07:00.000 There was one or two where he had some signific 131 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:03.839 can allergies. Yeah, and we'd have to do a couple 132 00:07:03.800 --> 00:07:05.639 of retakes between sneezes. 133 00:07:06.079 --> 00:07:08.839 That Actually, that makes perfect sense for me because what 134 00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:12.519 I had heard was that his one real weakness is cryptidnight. 135 00:07:16.720 --> 00:07:26.160 He's been waiting to use that. Nice Another question that 136 00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:30.120 is on the tip of everyone's tongue is about justin. 137 00:07:30.639 --> 00:07:32.480 The Big One though, Did you lose track of the 138 00:07:32.519 --> 00:07:33.000 Big One? 139 00:07:33.160 --> 00:07:34.800 Yeah, I've never found the Big One. 140 00:07:34.839 --> 00:07:37.519 Do you have any sort of samples from this specimen. 141 00:07:37.600 --> 00:07:42.480 Hair, blood, flesh, bones, has it been analyzed yet? 142 00:07:42.560 --> 00:07:48.160 Yeah? And feral human, whereas the most common result so 143 00:07:48.360 --> 00:07:49.079 feral human. 144 00:07:49.279 --> 00:07:53.360 Yeah, you can't tell if the humans fharal from their DNA. 145 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:56.519 Justin says he sent out a sample and it came 146 00:07:56.560 --> 00:07:57.720 back as faral human. 147 00:07:57.839 --> 00:08:00.120 There's no such thing as feral human. Pharah is just 148 00:08:00.160 --> 00:08:00.720 the behavior. 149 00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:03.720 So if Justin killed a feral human, he actually killed 150 00:08:03.720 --> 00:08:05.519 a human and he's committed murder. 151 00:08:07.839 --> 00:08:09.439 When Todd called him out on that, that was my 152 00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:10.560 favorite moment in the series. 153 00:08:10.600 --> 00:08:13.279 I think did he kill any more feral humans? 154 00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:13.879 Yes? 155 00:08:14.000 --> 00:08:19.600 During filming Justin he talks a big talk, now, doesn't he? 156 00:08:19.720 --> 00:08:22.560 But I see, I don't believe the thing he says. 157 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:27.399 So so a point I wanted to raise is, unfortunately, 158 00:08:27.439 --> 00:08:32.480 having you know, been thrust headlong into this and occasionally 159 00:08:32.559 --> 00:08:36.559 seeing the blog posts and Facebook posts and other things, 160 00:08:37.320 --> 00:08:40.960 is a lot of people complained that it was a 161 00:08:41.039 --> 00:08:45.440 rigged show. You know, that the network had picked a 162 00:08:45.559 --> 00:08:48.759 priori who was going to win and who to keep 163 00:08:48.799 --> 00:08:49.279 and all. 164 00:08:49.159 --> 00:08:50.080 Of that stuff. 165 00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:53.480 But that's one thing, and I've posted and written about this, 166 00:08:54.279 --> 00:08:59.600 that is absolutely not true. Going back to the Paola 167 00:08:59.679 --> 00:09:04.639 scams and some of the early televised game shows where 168 00:09:04.679 --> 00:09:06.519 there were controversies. 169 00:09:06.759 --> 00:09:11.399 A whole series of laws have been passed on this 170 00:09:11.440 --> 00:09:15.519 because this was technically classified as a game show because 171 00:09:16.000 --> 00:09:20.919 you had contestants competing for prizes and they have to 172 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:21.519 be fair. 173 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:23.159 We would have walked away from it. 174 00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:29.720 I mean, why would we put our reputations online if 175 00:09:30.080 --> 00:09:32.000 it was gamed so to speak. 176 00:09:32.120 --> 00:09:33.840 Yeah, we actually had ann that was in charge of 177 00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:35.879 all the compliance rules. We actually had to, you know, 178 00:09:36.159 --> 00:09:38.399 sit down and had a meeting at the very very 179 00:09:38.480 --> 00:09:41.000 very first day of shooting. Everybody had to sit down 180 00:09:41.039 --> 00:09:43.080 and talk about this is this is a game. 181 00:09:43.120 --> 00:09:43.879 There are rules. 182 00:09:44.080 --> 00:09:47.279 You must comply with these rules and we took that 183 00:09:47.399 --> 00:09:49.399 very seriously. And I note that Todd and I every 184 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:52.679 time we had an elimination, there was a sit down 185 00:09:53.159 --> 00:09:56.600 meeting between he and I and then Christine discussing, and 186 00:09:57.480 --> 00:09:59.279 sometimes we didn't agree and we had to really kind 187 00:09:59.320 --> 00:10:00.600 of have a little customer. 188 00:10:00.679 --> 00:10:02.559 Yeah, it was a lot like grading. 189 00:10:02.799 --> 00:10:06.240 You know, as a professor, I have to rank the 190 00:10:06.279 --> 00:10:12.039 students in my class, and oftentimes you have utterly objective 191 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:17.279 criteria the actual score they had on a test. 192 00:10:17.480 --> 00:10:19.000 But if you're in a seminar. 193 00:10:19.159 --> 00:10:23.080 Sometimes it gets a little more subjective where you have 194 00:10:23.159 --> 00:10:27.039 to say, well, these guys spoke up more and better 195 00:10:27.120 --> 00:10:29.159 and more logically and stuff. 196 00:10:29.200 --> 00:10:32.240 So but it, I mean, it really was to me 197 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:34.440 like being. 198 00:10:34.320 --> 00:10:37.639 A teacher, you know, being a professor and grading them 199 00:10:37.679 --> 00:10:40.960 and when you grade somebody's at the bottom end of 200 00:10:41.000 --> 00:10:41.399 the curve. 201 00:10:41.639 --> 00:10:44.080 Yeah, I mean things like looking at their field work, 202 00:10:44.120 --> 00:10:47.000 whether they work together well as a team. My big 203 00:10:47.240 --> 00:10:49.600 idea that I pushed was their ability to amend any 204 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:52.120 sort of theories that they had as they gained more information. 205 00:10:52.200 --> 00:10:54.919 If somebody was you know, digging in their heels on 206 00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:57.799 a theory that wasn't holding any weight and they weren't 207 00:10:57.840 --> 00:11:00.559 giving us any good evidence, it made it easier for 208 00:11:00.639 --> 00:11:02.559 us to let them go. But when you know, one 209 00:11:02.559 --> 00:11:05.679 of the wonderful things for me is somebody who studies 210 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:08.320 field primatology is to hear them start talking like scientists 211 00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:09.759 talking about their hypotheses. 212 00:11:10.639 --> 00:11:13.240 I never thought would ever say or utter those words. 213 00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:15.919 You know, I think David who was a David Lauer 214 00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:19.000 who was like our hypothesis and he was great. They 215 00:11:19.080 --> 00:11:22.720 really were coming up with changing their ideas and trying 216 00:11:22.759 --> 00:11:23.279 new things. 217 00:11:23.320 --> 00:11:25.000 And for science is about innovation. 218 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:28.879 It's about trying new things and if it doesn't work, 219 00:11:28.919 --> 00:11:30.080 try something new. 220 00:11:29.960 --> 00:11:32.159 Towards the end of the show, I think the H 221 00:11:32.279 --> 00:11:34.519 word was used as much as the S word. 222 00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:40.080 So tying into the concept of grading. Was there any 223 00:11:40.200 --> 00:11:42.320 cheating going on? Did you see anybody trying to plan 224 00:11:42.399 --> 00:11:44.519 evidence to pass it off as reel or anybody acting 225 00:11:44.559 --> 00:11:46.399 a little dodgy. 226 00:11:46.559 --> 00:11:48.639 I don't want to sound like Bill Clinton, but to 227 00:11:48.679 --> 00:11:50.000 find cheating. 228 00:11:51.720 --> 00:11:55.080 If you are ahead of another team and you stomp 229 00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:58.559 out the footprints or use your paddle and erase. 230 00:11:58.240 --> 00:12:01.159 The footprints, you take a sample. 231 00:12:01.279 --> 00:12:04.440 There's a bunch of fur on the ground, you take 232 00:12:04.480 --> 00:12:06.639 a sample of it, and then you start spitting on it, 233 00:12:07.120 --> 00:12:09.279 you know, so that it becomes contaminated. 234 00:12:10.519 --> 00:12:15.960 Is that cheating or are you pushing to win? Playing 235 00:12:15.960 --> 00:12:19.200 to win? You know? So, and we saw that on camera. 236 00:12:19.240 --> 00:12:21.759 I mean I didn't see that out in the field 237 00:12:21.840 --> 00:12:26.159 because I actually did not go out in the field 238 00:12:26.759 --> 00:12:29.879 during their hunts with them. Natalia went out at the 239 00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:33.639 beginning of the hunts and sometimes at the ends. But 240 00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:37.320 you know, we couldn't track all the teams all simultaneously, 241 00:12:37.679 --> 00:12:40.080 even though they're out there alone. There was a cameraman 242 00:12:40.159 --> 00:12:43.200 and a sound band exactly just a few feet away 243 00:12:43.240 --> 00:12:43.960 from each team. 244 00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:46.679 They generally played nice when I was with them, and 245 00:12:46.720 --> 00:12:50.440 I would go out with them actually usually for the 246 00:12:50.440 --> 00:12:53.000 initial test around, and I would just kind of ask 247 00:12:53.080 --> 00:12:56.440 them about their strategies, and they all played kind of 248 00:12:56.519 --> 00:12:57.639 nice while I was there. 249 00:12:58.679 --> 00:13:01.000 I think they knew they would get I scored in red. 250 00:13:01.480 --> 00:13:06.039 They didn't, but I do know seeing additional footage from 251 00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:08.519 the cameraman that was that were with them for all 252 00:13:08.559 --> 00:13:10.919 those hours out in the field, that they did, you know, 253 00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.639 try to play to win, and that sometimes that means 254 00:13:13.639 --> 00:13:14.559 playing a little dirty. 255 00:13:15.120 --> 00:13:18.679 And Natalia and I, you know, after they came back 256 00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:23.279 from the hunt, while the DNA analyzes were being carried out, 257 00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:26.360 I would basically start them. But I had a technician 258 00:13:26.559 --> 00:13:30.279 with me throughout the whole trip. Actually I had several technicians, 259 00:13:30.720 --> 00:13:33.879 and so while things were incubating or things taking a 260 00:13:33.919 --> 00:13:37.399 little bit of time or some of the easier steps, 261 00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:41.600 we Natalia and I would be in the cabin are 262 00:13:41.639 --> 00:13:44.759 out at a picnic table with all of the evidence 263 00:13:44.799 --> 00:13:48.279 that they brought in, plus footage and all the pictures 264 00:13:48.279 --> 00:13:52.240 that yes, they took. So we spent hours a day 265 00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:57.159 going you know, basically, from you know, mid morning until 266 00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:01.240 nine at night, we were going through the evidence, you know, 267 00:14:01.440 --> 00:14:05.799 almost a whole day long, and they would pull up, well, 268 00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:10.000 here's the cameraman for this team, here's you know. So 269 00:14:11.000 --> 00:14:13.440 I would look at this tooth and say, well, this 270 00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:19.039 looks like it's from a deer, and they were swearing, oh, no, 271 00:14:19.159 --> 00:14:22.519 it's from this, And then the cameraman recorded them taking 272 00:14:22.519 --> 00:14:25.559 a deer jaw on, breaking it to pull a tooth out. Yeah, 273 00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:34.000 so yeah, gotchya again. Is that cheating or playing to win? 274 00:14:34.840 --> 00:14:38.519 I mean, that's I'm sure that's expected in any kind 275 00:14:38.799 --> 00:14:41.080 of game show, even if it's just trying to psych 276 00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:45.279 out your opponents. But they could physically try to do 277 00:14:45.320 --> 00:14:49.440 stuff as well, to reduce the evidence out there for 278 00:14:49.519 --> 00:14:52.120 other people, or to make theirs look better whatever. 279 00:14:52.399 --> 00:14:55.279 Yeah, and we did. I mean it was kind of nice. 280 00:14:55.320 --> 00:14:55.559 It was. 281 00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:59.320 We really were kind of building our cases for them 282 00:14:59.320 --> 00:15:01.480 and our question and we you know, we came up 283 00:15:01.519 --> 00:15:05.600 with usually a series of eight questions per team, if 284 00:15:05.639 --> 00:15:07.919 not more, trying to get to the bottom of why 285 00:15:07.919 --> 00:15:10.200 they brought in these samples, what about them made them 286 00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:14.600 think it was was bigfoot? We gauge their answers and 287 00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:16.320 that helped us decide whether or not they were going 288 00:15:16.399 --> 00:15:17.120 to stay or go. 289 00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.480 They had to defend themselves just like you would defend 290 00:15:20.480 --> 00:15:21.080 a dissertation. 291 00:15:21.519 --> 00:15:27.159 I was basically working with eighteen people who probably wouldn't 292 00:15:27.200 --> 00:15:31.720 be grad students under my supervision, maybe Michael Merchant. 293 00:15:32.879 --> 00:15:35.279 But speaking of evidence, was there any solution to that 294 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:38.679 bigfoot that was caught on the fleet camera that the 295 00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:40.559 two didn't go chasing. 296 00:15:40.200 --> 00:15:43.759 After one early in the season, They didn't follow up 297 00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:47.320 on it and nothing was seen there. Later in the 298 00:15:47.360 --> 00:15:51.080 season they claimed they had, you know, the best best 299 00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:56.519 footage since Patterson Gimlin and it was another team's cameraman 300 00:15:56.679 --> 00:16:00.000 or soundman. And we know that actually taking a leak 301 00:16:00.279 --> 00:16:01.559 probably you know, taking a. 302 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:05.559 Dump feet behind the rest of the team. That's why 303 00:16:05.600 --> 00:16:07.279 it was an individual. 304 00:16:07.799 --> 00:16:10.919 But the early one, I don't think we have a 305 00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:13.480 clue as to what it was. But it was also 306 00:16:14.320 --> 00:16:17.200 just fuzzier than well, it was typical. 307 00:16:17.639 --> 00:16:20.000 Yeah, it's hard to have scale when it's night vision 308 00:16:20.000 --> 00:16:21.080 two if there's not something. 309 00:16:21.279 --> 00:16:25.120 Fle I mean, it's it's cool, but you're never going 310 00:16:25.200 --> 00:16:25.879 to get. 311 00:16:25.879 --> 00:16:29.279 Decent positive id. 312 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:33.080 Off of Fleaer at night unless it's a camera trap 313 00:16:33.200 --> 00:16:35.200 and they're like three feet away from it. 314 00:16:36.320 --> 00:16:40.639 It looks good on TV either, right, Yeah, exactly. 315 00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:40.840 Very dramatic. 316 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:45.600 I actually learned a lot on this series myself and 317 00:16:45.639 --> 00:16:50.120 in fact our our use of environmental DNA, the stuff 318 00:16:50.159 --> 00:16:53.080 from insects and other stuff I had never done before 319 00:16:53.960 --> 00:16:58.519 in my own research, and we've now incorporated that into 320 00:16:58.559 --> 00:17:02.759 our research, in fact taking it even further and submitting 321 00:17:02.799 --> 00:17:08.920 several grants using even more sophisticated technologies, next generation sequencing 322 00:17:08.960 --> 00:17:12.279 technologies and so on, to do all sorts of neat 323 00:17:12.319 --> 00:17:17.000 stuff with environmental DNA to actually scan the environment for 324 00:17:17.119 --> 00:17:20.680 all of the organisms that are out there. I probably 325 00:17:20.720 --> 00:17:23.680 would have eventually come around to that in my research, 326 00:17:23.920 --> 00:17:29.400 but this show really prompted me to really think about 327 00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:32.680 it more and talking in my lab meetings where like, hey, 328 00:17:32.759 --> 00:17:36.960 we could do this in this different context. I actually 329 00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:39.200 learned and gained something from the show. 330 00:17:39.799 --> 00:17:41.440 It's pretty cool, it is. 331 00:17:41.519 --> 00:17:43.960 Yeah, I learned a great joke because I'm a field primatologist, 332 00:17:44.039 --> 00:17:46.400 so most of my time has been spent in the field, 333 00:17:46.960 --> 00:17:48.920 and so I got to get a lot of hands 334 00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:51.319 on lab experience. And then also, I mean, the environmental 335 00:17:51.400 --> 00:17:53.680 DNA is something that I work in conservation and that 336 00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:56.960 can be extremely effective in an area where it's hard 337 00:17:57.000 --> 00:18:01.519 to find a specific individual group of individuals, and you 338 00:18:01.519 --> 00:18:03.799 can do kind of an ecological survey without ever having 339 00:18:03.799 --> 00:18:06.000 to see them if you're using mosquitos or any sort 340 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:09.319 of inviting insects. And it was great, honestly, as somebody 341 00:18:09.359 --> 00:18:11.759 wh would go out and watch the teams. I love 342 00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:14.200 watching Dave and Dan go out and use themselves as 343 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:15.680 bait while catching leeches. 344 00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:19.400 That to me was amazing tenacity. 345 00:18:20.799 --> 00:18:24.279 And we got horse DNA out of one of the 346 00:18:24.359 --> 00:18:28.240 leeches that blatched on to David. They snapped it off 347 00:18:28.279 --> 00:18:31.799 before it drew blood on him, and when we tested 348 00:18:31.880 --> 00:18:36.000 that sample, clearly a horse had walked through that swamp 349 00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:39.559 not too long before and had a leech bite it 350 00:18:39.640 --> 00:18:44.480 and fall off and it went after something equally big. 351 00:18:44.720 --> 00:18:47.960 Yeah, sorry, Dave. 352 00:18:50.359 --> 00:18:51.799 I wonder if they're going to be listening into this, 353 00:18:53.160 --> 00:18:54.319 I hope So, Hello. 354 00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:58.920 So do you have any idea what the sounds were 355 00:18:58.960 --> 00:19:01.039 that got one of the cast members to say, that's 356 00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:01.440 a big. 357 00:19:01.279 --> 00:19:02.200 Football right there. 358 00:19:02.839 --> 00:19:03.680 Sound alone? 359 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:07.039 Well, hey, you don't talk about them that way. They're 360 00:19:07.079 --> 00:19:07.519 nice people. 361 00:19:07.680 --> 00:19:12.440 Well, I was gonna say that there's a double meaning there. 362 00:19:12.759 --> 00:19:14.480 It could be alone, or. 363 00:19:17.480 --> 00:19:20.039 You also have to remember, I mean one of the 364 00:19:20.359 --> 00:19:23.880 one of the banes of all these guys looking for 365 00:19:23.960 --> 00:19:29.359 Bigfoot is hoaxing. So even if it wasn't another team member, 366 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:31.880 we weren't in the middle of Epps Well, we were 367 00:19:31.960 --> 00:19:35.160 in the middle of absolutely nowhere, but there were other 368 00:19:35.240 --> 00:19:38.920 people around. And I know if I was a seventeen 369 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:41.200 year old kid and I knew there was a film 370 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:44.359 company filming a Bigfoot show in my region, I would 371 00:19:44.400 --> 00:19:48.039 be out there every night screwing around with them. You 372 00:19:48.079 --> 00:19:52.160 hear that sound, and is it a natural animal? 373 00:19:52.519 --> 00:19:53.839 Is it a human doing it? 374 00:19:53.920 --> 00:19:57.079 If it's human, is it even the cast and the crew, 375 00:19:57.279 --> 00:20:00.279 I mean they're human as well. Could a PA out 376 00:20:00.319 --> 00:20:02.400 there around and around? 377 00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:03.359 I don't know. 378 00:20:03.720 --> 00:20:05.359 I think that was during the Yeah, that was during 379 00:20:05.359 --> 00:20:09.640 the finale, and I know that Michael and Kat had 380 00:20:09.839 --> 00:20:11.720 I think it was them who had done that. And 381 00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:14.920 they are those SAP people who heard the sound. So 382 00:20:15.079 --> 00:20:17.440 the guy in front desk at this at this park 383 00:20:17.559 --> 00:20:19.759 knew that there are people that are looking for Bigfoot. 384 00:20:19.880 --> 00:20:21.480 So who knows? 385 00:20:21.559 --> 00:20:24.720 I having some fun with them exactly? 386 00:20:24.839 --> 00:20:27.039 Why not? I was on TV? 387 00:20:27.960 --> 00:20:33.240 Yeah, hear me, Well, you guys were talking about baiting 388 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:35.759 Bigfoot a bit earlier, and one of the weirdest parts 389 00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:37.359 of the show for me was when one of the 390 00:20:37.359 --> 00:20:40.680 teams said that they were using chimp and human menstrual 391 00:20:40.720 --> 00:20:44.240 wafers to try and find Bigfoot. So what was that about? 392 00:20:45.599 --> 00:20:51.000 Yeah, I have no idea where that comes from? 393 00:20:51.119 --> 00:20:54.519 Is all? So here I can. 394 00:20:54.559 --> 00:20:58.920 Use the age word and hypothesize it's it's at least 395 00:20:59.079 --> 00:21:03.599 folklore that, for instance, fairs are attracted to peanut butter 396 00:21:03.640 --> 00:21:07.279 and menstruating women, So don't go camping with peanut butter 397 00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:12.720 sandwiches and a menstruating woman. And I can only hypothesize 398 00:21:12.839 --> 00:21:15.920 that that got transferred, if. 399 00:21:15.799 --> 00:21:21.480 You will, to sort of the Bigfoot world. Yeah, I 400 00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:22.880 don't know how. 401 00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:27.359