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Speaker 1: You are now listening to True Murder The most shocking
Speaker 1: killers in true crime history and the authors that have
Speaker 1: written about them Gasey, Bundy, Dahmer, The Night Stalker DTK.
Speaker 1: Every week another fascinating author talking about the most shocking
Speaker 1: and infamous killers in true crime history. True Murder with
Speaker 1: your host journalist and author Dan Zupanski.
Speaker 2: Good evening from real life mafia survivor Frank D. Matteo.
Speaker 2: The gripping account of the life and crimes of the
Speaker 2: most feared mafia boss of all time. Carmine Leelo Galante,
Speaker 2: the prime mover behind the legendary French connect. The son
Speaker 2: of Sicilian immigrants, Camillo, Carmine Galante was raised in Manhattan's
Speaker 2: Little Italy and, by all accounts, born bad. At each ten,
Speaker 2: his home away from home was juvenile detention. By fifteen,
Speaker 2: he was terrorizing the streets of New York's Lower East Side,
Speaker 2: scoring high marks for the errands he was running for
Speaker 2: his La Costa and Nostra elders. When he turned twenty,
Speaker 2: Galante was already one of the mob's top enforcers, a
Speaker 2: sadistic thrill killer and clinically diagnosed psychopath with big dreams
Speaker 2: whack his way into controlling organized crime the world over,
Speaker 2: vowing to kill mafia chieftains Tommy Luchesi and Carlo Gambino
Speaker 2: and take control of their mob families. Carmine Lelo Galantes
Speaker 2: rise to mafia star, was infamous hit man for the
Speaker 2: Luciano and Genovese crime families. Named Consigliere by Joseph Bonano,
Speaker 2: he wiped out eight members of the Gambinos. On behalf
Speaker 2: of Mussolini, he assassinated the publisher of an anti fascist newspaper,
Speaker 2: The biggest dope peddler in the country according to law enforcement,
Speaker 2: Galante helped orchestrate one of the largest heroin trafficking operations
Speaker 2: on record, a power move too dangerous for his rivals
Speaker 2: in the narcotics trade. The heads of the five New
Speaker 2: York families decided that the psychotic Dalante had to be stopped.
Speaker 2: On July twelfth, nineteen seventy nine, finishing his lunch in
Speaker 2: a Brooklyn restaurant, Galante got what he dished out his
Speaker 2: whole life, a shotgun blast of the face, his trademark
Speaker 2: cigar still clenched in his teeth. The book that we're
Speaker 2: featuring this evening is a Cigar Carmine Galante Mafia Terror,
Speaker 2: with my special guest authors Frank d Matteo and Michael Benson.
Speaker 2: Welcome to the program. Frank Di Matteo and Michael Benson.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you very much. Let's start off immediately
Speaker 2: with just a little bit of your background. Frank, how
Speaker 2: you came to be the author of this book.
Speaker 5: Henniston Publication asked me and Mike to do a book,
Speaker 5: and apparently they wanted something on Carmine Colente and they
Speaker 5: approached us, and I spoke to Mike and I had
Speaker 5: two meetings with Colente in the seventies, so they said,
Speaker 5: would you like to do it?
Speaker 3: And we did it.
Speaker 2: You take us in the book the Cigar and tell
Speaker 2: us the reference with the cigar and Lilo, and tell
Speaker 2: us about Camilo Galante's beginnings. You say he was born
Speaker 2: in nineteen ten in New York City. Tell us about
Speaker 2: his parents, and tell us about the boys from Castellamare
Speaker 2: and the connection with the Bonano family. Tell us a
Speaker 2: little bit about this history. In Sicily and Camilo Galente.
Speaker 2: You explained the possible relationship between his father Carmine's father
Speaker 2: and the Banano family that traced right back to Italy
Speaker 2: and its roots. And also this the Castello Mare people
Speaker 2: that stood up for themselves. What that represented in America.
Speaker 2: You say that they had few opportunities when they came
Speaker 2: to America, and this organization and had traced back to
Speaker 2: Italy provided for them once they were in America. So
Speaker 2: tell us about him rising in the ranks of the
Speaker 2: Banano family and really what he aspired to in terms
Speaker 2: of his rule with the Banano family.
Speaker 3: Frank and I have been a team for a while now.
Speaker 3: This is not our first book together. We teamed up
Speaker 3: originally because Frank, all by his lonesome, sat down at
Speaker 3: his computer and wrote a book called Lion in the Basement,
Speaker 3: which completely rock and rolled. It was fantastic. But Frank's
Speaker 3: not an educated guy in a formal sense, but he
Speaker 3: could share tell a story. So Kensington Publishing brought me
Speaker 3: in because I can talk college and Fix it Up
Speaker 3: had some material and it came out as Growing Up
Speaker 3: Mafia the President Street Boys, which is still one of
Speaker 3: the greatest books ever written. All I did was Fixed
Speaker 3: it Up, I swear, But we became friends and the
Speaker 3: team worked well, so we went on to write a
Speaker 3: book about Carmine the Snake. Persepto wrote about Albert the
Speaker 3: Mad Hatter Atastasia, we wrote about carmin Dibiazzi aka Sunny Pinto,
Speaker 3: the man who actually killed Joey Galo. Don't pay any
Speaker 3: attention to that irishman bs. And because those books were
Speaker 3: successful and still continue to do very well, we were
Speaker 3: doing Galante now, who was the all time world's greatest
Speaker 3: heroin dealer nows for the Costakala Mai. I think when
Speaker 3: Lucky Luciano set up the five family system, he gave
Speaker 3: Costa Calamari their own family, and that was the Bananos.
Speaker 3: The Bananos had been running that town in Sicily for generations,
Speaker 3: and Joseph was just the youngest one. He was sent
Speaker 3: to America to take care of the people from town
Speaker 3: who had immigrated to America. So when the Galantes arrived
Speaker 3: in America, they don't know diddley about US government. You know,
Speaker 3: their government is going to be the Banano crime family.
Speaker 3: So it's perfectly possible that Carmine had no choice whatsoever
Speaker 3: as to what he was going to do with his life.
Speaker 3: He was going to be a Banano.
Speaker 2: So ay you introduced a couple of characters that will
Speaker 2: remain through this entire story. Angelo Moe Prisonzano and best
Speaker 2: friend Giuseppe Joseph Joey Beck di Palermo. These guys are
Speaker 2: around when he's fifteen years old and he begins his
Speaker 2: criminal career. Tell us about his ascension in the Banano family.
Speaker 2: What is he hired to do or what is his
Speaker 2: role within that family? And tell us about that rise
Speaker 2: in the family.
Speaker 3: I think the thing I understand about Glante is that
Speaker 3: he's a crook from childhood. By the time he's ten
Speaker 3: years old, he's already in reform school. He's got his
Speaker 3: own juvenile delinquent gang by the time he's fourteen. He
Speaker 3: gets his first major bust at fifteen, and by the
Speaker 3: time he comes out of thing sing he's a grown
Speaker 3: man who's considered one of the mob's top enforcers. And
Speaker 3: Joey Beck and cousin Moe, they're there from the start.
Speaker 3: Joey Beck is a particularly interesting character because of the
Speaker 3: way he looked. He stood out in the crowd. Most
Speaker 3: of the tough guys were kind of shortened squat, but
Speaker 3: Joey Beck looked like he'd been tortured too long on
Speaker 3: the rack. His neck was long, his head was bulbous.
Speaker 3: He had a big forehead, the coke bottle and his
Speaker 3: glasses and a protruding Adam's apple. It was its own
Speaker 3: cold killer. So it's just it's horrified to think that
Speaker 3: there were people who the last thing they saw was
Speaker 3: that face in there's with his hands around their throat.
Speaker 3: As for Cousin Mowee, Cousin moy was brain trust for Galante.
Speaker 3: He was the guy who would expect Galanti's not that
Speaker 3: smart of the guy. I don't think he was the
Speaker 3: mentally handicapped fellow he pretended to be when he was
Speaker 3: in police custody. But it wasn't an intellectual. It wasn't
Speaker 3: much of a thinker, and he always had somebody at
Speaker 3: his side that did the thinking part for him. He
Speaker 3: did the tough guy part. And Cousin Mohi was that
Speaker 3: character in his life for a long time, right up
Speaker 3: until maybe a half hour before his death, at which
Speaker 3: point you know Cousin Mohi took an unexpected powder.
Speaker 2: You take us to Christmas Eve nineteen thirty and this
Speaker 2: gun battle at the Lieberman Brewery. Tell us about that. Then,
Speaker 2: what is the result for Carmine silver Bells.
Speaker 3: It's Christmas time in the city and it's hustling and
Speaker 3: bustling in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and Galante and some friends decide
Speaker 3: they're going to bump off the Lieberman Brewery, which they do,
Speaker 3: and they would have gotten away with it too, except
Speaker 3: for they ran into a beer truck outside and decided
Speaker 3: they were going to take some beer as well. And
Speaker 3: while they're breaking into the truck to take out the
Speaker 3: cases of beer, they get caught by Detective Joseph Minahan,
Speaker 3: and Mina Han says, hey, what are you guys doing there?
Speaker 3: And Galante says, you know, eat lead copper and starts
Speaker 3: shooting at him, and he hits Minahan wounds him, but
Speaker 3: he also hits a six year old girl named Shirley
Speaker 3: Herushowitz lived on Bedford Avenue in Brooklyn, one of the
Speaker 3: few streets that goes from one side of Brooklyn all
Speaker 3: the way to the other. You could walk from one
Speaker 3: edge to the other all the way on Bedford Avenue,
Speaker 3: change his character along the way. But surely Herschowitz was
Speaker 3: shot in the leg, so Blante has now shot a kid.
Speaker 3: There's four bullets strike Minahan's coat, but not him, which
Speaker 3: to remember Tracy's hat. Yeah, bad guys would always shoot
Speaker 3: at Dick Tracy and he take off his hat and
Speaker 3: there'd be a bullet hole in his hat. And he
Speaker 3: had a closet it was just full of hats with
Speaker 3: bullet holes in it. And I spent eighty years. How
Speaker 3: come these guys don't aim a little lower? But four
Speaker 3: bullets and Minahan's coat and one in Minahan as well.
Speaker 3: But he still manages to chase Colanti down and arrests him,
Speaker 3: and he goes away for his first long stretch in prison,
Speaker 3: which is probably the luckiest thing that ever happened to him,
Speaker 3: because the custall of Mauri's war takes place while he's
Speaker 3: in prison, and he most certainly would have been killed
Speaker 3: in that war had he been on the streets at
Speaker 3: that time.
Speaker 2: At that time when he's in Dana Mora, he is
Speaker 2: seen by psychiatrists. What is their diagnosis? What do they
Speaker 2: have to say after speaking with him?
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, Frank should tire remind me, Frank
Speaker 3: should tell you the story about he went to Dana morrilans.
Speaker 3: I got to see it from the outside, but still
Speaker 3: chilling story. Yeah, they said that he has a personality disorder,
Speaker 3: he is a psychopath, which is probably true. Psychopath is
Speaker 3: basically a man who has no conscience, and it's true.
Speaker 3: I don't think that Golan they ever felt bad about
Speaker 3: anything he did, no matter how horrible it was. Talking
Speaker 3: about Dani Mora. That don'll warp you right there.
Speaker 2: You also talk about that while he's in prison, three
Speaker 2: years are added to his sentence. What is the incident
Speaker 2: that adds three years to his twelve and a half
Speaker 2: year sentence.
Speaker 3: Well, it's a knife fight. He and cousin Moe get
Speaker 3: jumped in the prison yard and knife comes out and
Speaker 3: one guy's dead. And that's so Galante got three years
Speaker 3: tagged onto his sentence.
Speaker 2: Now let's fast forward as you do. Once he gets out,
Speaker 2: he goes right back, as you say, whacking guys at
Speaker 2: the orders of Vito Genovezi, then the acting boss of
Speaker 2: the Luciano crime family. So what happens in terms of
Speaker 2: he has to look like he's working, looking like he's
Speaker 2: a legitimate person. What does he do in terms of
Speaker 2: trying to pretend that he's a working stiff, and what
Speaker 2: happens in his rise in the Banano family or the
Speaker 2: Genovie's as a hit map.
Speaker 3: Well, they had cover stories. I think the cover story
Speaker 3: was he worked for an artificial flower company, or he
Speaker 3: was a truck driver for a truck company that only
Speaker 3: had one truck. These are things they put together, but
Speaker 3: basically for the irs, so they could file that they
Speaker 3: worked and made a certain amount of money, especially after
Speaker 3: you come out of prison, because you have to be
Speaker 3: gainfully employed and not hang around with other felons. But
Speaker 3: he was in reality a hitman of growing importance. And
Speaker 3: when Vito Geneviz bullt the country and went to Italy
Speaker 3: to avoid going to prison for life, he made friends
Speaker 3: with Mussolini. You know Mussolini, who was the fascist leader
Speaker 3: of Italy at the time. And as a rule, the
Speaker 3: fascists and mafioso did not get along because there were
Speaker 3: competing governments. But in this case, Geneviz needed to make
Speaker 3: peace because he needed someplace to live in safety. So
Speaker 3: Mussolini said, Okay, you know, we'll protect you, but you
Speaker 3: gotta do me some favors. You have anybody who in
Speaker 3: New York could kill a guy from me, And Jennevie says, yeah,
Speaker 3: as a matter of fact, that do it. So could
Speaker 3: you bump off Carlo trescaw Krlo Tresca is a publisher
Speaker 3: of an anarchist newspaper, anti fascist, you know, far left
Speaker 3: wing against the far right wing and Mussolini. Once this
Speaker 3: guy bumped off, I mean modern example would be if
Speaker 3: Joseph Biden wanted to bump off the editor of the
Speaker 3: New York Post or something like that. That that'd be
Speaker 3: how big this is. And Tresca and a friend are
Speaker 3: going out to eat their on fifteenth Street and Fifth
Speaker 3: Avenue in a nice section of Manhattan, and Galante walked
Speaker 3: up and blew them away on nine forty at night,
Speaker 3: and they knew it was him too, because earlier in
Speaker 3: the day he had gone to his parole officer. His
Speaker 3: parole officers thought he was acting a little hanky and
Speaker 3: followed him, and he got into a car and they
Speaker 3: wrote down the license plate number. Couldn't follow any further
Speaker 3: because there were gas rations because of the war. So
Speaker 3: once they got in the car, he got away. And
Speaker 3: then after the shooting, the little guy who does the
Speaker 3: shooting is seen getting in to a car that looks
Speaker 3: just like that. And then hours later the car has
Speaker 3: founded abandoned and it has the same license plate number
Speaker 3: as the number the ro officer wrote earlier in the day,
Speaker 3: but while the bullets were flying, nobody wrote down the
Speaker 3: license plate number, so they all they knew was that
Speaker 3: the killer got into a car like the one that
Speaker 3: Valante was seen getting into and was abandoned or the
Speaker 3: shooting site. Later and he was released for lack of evidence,
Speaker 3: but not until his pictures in the newspaper The Assassin,
Speaker 3: and they think they had his name wrong, that rock
Speaker 3: o' Galante is the option for the portrait. The picture
Speaker 3: and he's looking small and the cops are just towering
Speaker 3: over him. He's disheveled, and within a few weeks he
Speaker 3: was free.
Speaker 5: That's how you know, how they make big mistakes by
Speaker 5: using a car they used all day. I mean, that's
Speaker 5: where it not too blight comes in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, although I'm not sure he knew that he was
Speaker 3: being followed on foot by his parole officer when he
Speaker 3: got into that car that morning.
Speaker 6: No, I didn't know. But you don't use your same car.
Speaker 6: I mean, but it's the forties, I mean it's not today.
Speaker 3: I mean they stole it first thing, good morning, they
Speaker 3: used it all day and didn't get rid of it
Speaker 3: until after the assassination.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's a no no, man, that's a really a
Speaker 5: no no. But you know, like I said, the forties,
Speaker 5: it things a little different then, but a big mistake.
Speaker 3: Well he didn't sit with us back to the entrance either,
Speaker 3: but it didn't do any good.
Speaker 6: Well yeah, well, so.
Speaker 2: Legal problems are arising are a constant for Carmine. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, nineteen fifty three, he is sent
Speaker 2: to Montreal to oversee the heroin operation. There tell us
Speaker 2: a little bit about this move by organized crime to
Speaker 2: have him in Montreal and dealing with the heroin distribution.
Speaker 3: At the same time that they're setting up the pipeline
Speaker 3: to bring the heroin into the US, they're recruiting an
Speaker 3: army out of Koslomara to function as soldiers in America,
Speaker 3: so to make sure that nobody else tries to get
Speaker 3: in on the action and that everything runs smoothly. And
Speaker 3: these are called zips, right. Only thing I could find
Speaker 3: was they're called zips because they speak really fast. But
Speaker 3: Frank says, you know, he met a zip once and
Speaker 3: didn't didn't speak that that quickly.
Speaker 2: You take us On October twenty fifth, nineteen fifty seven
Speaker 2: and Albert the matd hatter Anastasias killed at a barber shop,
Speaker 2: and you write that there's a power vacuum in the
Speaker 2: five family system as a result. Banano Consigula Air now
Speaker 2: is Galante. He was invited to this meeting at Barbara's
Speaker 2: place in Appalachian, New York. This is a historic sit down.
Speaker 2: You cite that it's an all star cast. Tell us
Speaker 2: about this sit down and what happens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a major, major deal with There's Bananos there,
Speaker 3: Profacci's there, Gambino's there, Geneviev's there, poly Castellano was there,
Speaker 3: and apparently so is Galante. But when the when the
Speaker 3: meeting was busted by local law enforcement, and I really
Speaker 3: wish we had videotape of this because this would have
Speaker 3: been just unbelievable to watch. All these top hoods just ran.
Speaker 3: There was a big field and wood with the woods
Speaker 3: at the other side of it, and they ran until
Speaker 3: they got to the woods, and someone managed to disappear,
Speaker 3: and some got picked up by cops who are out
Speaker 3: there scouring for them, and goal on they got away,
Speaker 3: which is was not the first time he'd almost gotten
Speaker 3: in trouble in that area. He'd been picked up a
Speaker 3: couple of years earlier for a speeding ticket near the
Speaker 3: Barbara Place, and what a fuss. I mean, it's hard
Speaker 3: to figure out what was going on. He was going
Speaker 3: seventy and a fifty mile an hour zone, and yet
Speaker 3: politicians and judges all form in try to make sure
Speaker 3: that he doesn't have to go to jail. But he
Speaker 3: goes to jail anyway for thirty days, which seems like
Speaker 3: a long time for a speeding ticket. But much fuss
Speaker 3: and much fuss about the fuss about Galante's speeding ticket.
Speaker 3: The only real conclusion you can come to is that
Speaker 3: the corruption was so deep into what we would think
Speaker 3: of as legitimate government that it was just frightening to people.
Speaker 5: Well, they had guys in their pocket up bit, they
Speaker 5: had a consulmate, they had judges, they had lawyers though days,
Speaker 5: so they tried to buy the way out of everything.
Speaker 3: His lawyer was the mayor.
Speaker 6: Yeah, so they you know, it was just.
Speaker 5: Still I think it was still publicized. That's why it
Speaker 5: was a bigger headache for him than anybody else. If
Speaker 5: it wasn't, you know, so publicized, it would have been
Speaker 5: squashed even faster than it.
Speaker 3: Was pay a fighting get out of here.
Speaker 6: That's a yeah comline, you know, I mean it was,
Speaker 6: it was on the radar already, so that you.
Speaker 2: Talk about that, that he's on the radar in January
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty eight. As of that time, it's to get
Speaker 2: Galante program. The Joint Legislative Committee on Organized Crime looking
Speaker 2: for Frank Garofolo, but also that Galante is missing and
Speaker 2: they don't know where he is, and the newspaper articles
Speaker 2: are portraying him as very very big person and important
Speaker 2: person in the world of organized crime.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well he's developed a second identity, comes with a
Speaker 3: second wife and a child with the second wife. Although
Speaker 3: he wasn't wasn't technically a big a miss. There's no
Speaker 3: evia he married the second wife. Well, yeah, he was
Speaker 3: with Paul. It was his first thing was Aquavella. I
Speaker 3: was going to say that Galante is a horrible, horrible man,
Speaker 3: but he was in his way a great gangster. I mean,
Speaker 3: he was never ever going to rat. Never, it wasn't
Speaker 3: going to happen. And while you know, rats were turning
Speaker 3: left and right, he was going to do his time
Speaker 3: and keep his mouth shut. And that was that was
Speaker 3: typical of that generation. Of guy. I mean, it's part
Speaker 3: of I think is that the Costello Mari's tradition.
Speaker 2: Let's continue in nineteen fifty eight, because Joey Beck goes
Speaker 2: on trial and he's considered a very big person in
Speaker 2: the heroin business. And also Luciano's apartment was searched and
Speaker 2: they found a little black book. Many people arrested as
Speaker 2: a result, and Luciano is sent to Dona Mora as well,
Speaker 2: serving ten years. You tell us that there was also
Speaker 2: a move instead of arresting and convicting, trying to convict
Speaker 2: these people, that four hundred Italillians were deported rather than
Speaker 2: prosecuted at that time.
Speaker 3: Right, But in order to do that, they had to
Speaker 3: be Italian citizens and not be naturalized Americans. Right. There
Speaker 3: was a story and that I'll ask Frank in a
Speaker 3: second if he believes this, But there was a story
Speaker 3: that Gallante had been actually born in Italy and came
Speaker 3: to America when he was four, which case he could
Speaker 3: have been deported. But there was paperwork saying that he
Speaker 3: had been born in the Lower East Side of New
Speaker 3: York as Camillo allowed a different name, and as far
Speaker 3: as we know, he had always lived in what was
Speaker 3: that at that time of Lily, which is today the
Speaker 3: East Harlem long Ways from the Lower East Side. So's
Speaker 3: if he was not born in the United States. There
Speaker 3: was an excellent paper trail to convince the government that
Speaker 3: he was right. And that's the reason he wasn't deported.
Speaker 3: The only time was ever deported, he was deported from
Speaker 3: Canada to the United States.
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about June first and the nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty nine. The traffics stopped capture in Homedell, New Jersey,
Speaker 2: of Galante.
Speaker 3: He got caught during a traffic stop. I guess that's
Speaker 3: the way these things go. You get away with the
Speaker 3: four hundred felonies and then you get caught because your
Speaker 3: right rear tail lights out or something like that. And
Speaker 3: eventually they started talking to missus Aquavella. Well, first time
Speaker 3: they spoke to her said a lot of interesting things
Speaker 3: because she couldn't keep her mouth shut. And she said that,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, well sometimes he does call himself Karmaine Yah,
Speaker 3: it's true. Oh yeah, he does consider himself a professional gambler.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah. And they thought they really had a
Speaker 3: nice source in her, but then they immediately got a
Speaker 3: message from her lawyer saying they were not to speak
Speaker 3: to her again without them there, and of course the
Speaker 3: next time they spoke to her, she says she'd never
Speaker 3: heard of Karma and Galante and had no idea that
Speaker 3: I really don't know much about my husband, I think.
Speaker 6: Is what she said exactly. They told him to shut up.
Speaker 2: Yeah, this trial is characterized though too by his Galant's
Speaker 2: bail is revoked because is one of the female witnesses
Speaker 2: that has been threatened. So the judge takes this opportunity
Speaker 2: to revoke his parole. And you say the whole trial
Speaker 2: was shrouded in danger. Anyone involved in the prosecution was
Speaker 2: in danger, and with numerous defecting jurors, like, for example,
Speaker 2: someone that was the jury foreman on the closing arguments
Speaker 2: that night fell down the stairs, broke us back and
Speaker 2: had a severe concussion. Anyway, as a result, five and
Speaker 2: a half months later in this trial, the mistrial is declared.
Speaker 2: And so now there's a new bail hearing for Galante.
Speaker 2: And you write that the FBI is under immediate surveillance
Speaker 2: of Galante, and he still has a couple other sprawling
Speaker 2: cases that he has to deal with as well.
Speaker 5: They grant they got to get to the juries like
Speaker 5: they did years ago, and they threatened them and they
Speaker 5: and they backed down, and he got away, and he
Speaker 5: got away with that trial. You know, he was under radar,
Speaker 5: so the mini came out, he was under investigation from
Speaker 5: multi things, so he just went right back into you know,
Speaker 5: the surveillance went right back on him in next case.
Speaker 3: You know, convicting Glante, it was a chore even when
Speaker 3: he was a kid. I think he was still a
Speaker 3: teenager and they were having witnesses disappear, so it was
Speaker 3: very early on. Word was out that he didn't want
Speaker 3: to necessarily be the guy that put Galante behind bars.
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Speaker 2: way to hire. Now we last laptop, Michael. We were
Speaker 2: talking about all the things that are happening around Galante,
Speaker 2: the prison sentences that are looming for narcotics and other
Speaker 2: crimes that he's involved in. There are trials that he
Speaker 2: is named in as well. What happens next with Carmine Galante.
Speaker 3: Well, eventually they do manage to get a conviction and
Speaker 3: he's sent away for what twelve thirteen years? And this
Speaker 3: time while he's away, the big move to run the
Speaker 3: Banano family comes from a fellow named Restelli, Rusty rest Delli.
Speaker 3: That's not his real first name. I think it his
Speaker 3: real first name with the seconds. But the interesting thing
Speaker 3: about rest Eelli is that he had the marriage from Hell,
Speaker 3: who was married to a woman named Connie, who was,
Speaker 3: you know, good looking if she'd shaved that day. He
Speaker 3: was a former abortionist, and they took turns shooting each other.
Speaker 3: And it was on December eighteenth, nineteen sixty one, Connie
Speaker 3: shot Rusty and Rusky was arrested as well because she
Speaker 3: shot him with his gun. She was charged with felonius assault.
Speaker 3: On February ninth, nineteen sixty two, judge dismissed rest Ellie's
Speaker 3: gun possession chargers kind of kind of he took a
Speaker 3: bullet for it already. And then Connie went to the cops.
Speaker 3: They went to the FBI rather and said they should
Speaker 3: look into her husband's activities as a drug trafficker. And
Speaker 3: they knew he was in the murder, extortion, and loan
Speaker 3: shot gambling, but they didn't anything about drugs. So this
Speaker 3: was interesting, open up a new vein of research for them.
Speaker 3: And then on March fourth, nineteen sixty two, Connie was
Speaker 3: killed in the hallway of her home in Williamsburg, Brooklyn,
Speaker 3: shot five times. And that crime has never been solved.
Speaker 3: But I have a sneaking suspicion, I know who did it.
Speaker 3: One of the advantages that Restelli had over Galante wasn't
Speaker 3: just that during the nineteen sixties when Glante was in
Speaker 3: and Restelli was out, but also Restelli had friends within
Speaker 3: the family who wanted to see him succeed, which wasn't
Speaker 3: necessarily true of Galante. And when Galante finally gets out
Speaker 3: of prison in nineteen seventy four, he's determined to make
Speaker 3: Restelli's life as miserable as possible. And one of the
Speaker 3: things he does is he has his step son bumped off.
Speaker 3: But that's Connie's kid, So we're not sure that that
Speaker 3: Restelli was that upset about it.
Speaker 2: Frank you right about the first time that you met
Speaker 2: and the circumstances in which you met Galante, And this
Speaker 2: is with the Larry Gallo crew hangout and you talk
Speaker 2: about your father, Ricky de Matteo, tell us a little
Speaker 2: bit about your father and just the circumstances in which
Speaker 2: you met Bellante.
Speaker 6: Well, my father came up to Tony Bender.
Speaker 5: He was a bounce from a bender in the wheel
Speaker 5: in the city when Larry Joey was recruiting some captains
Speaker 5: to help break away from the Pafaci family.
Speaker 6: That's how my father met to Joey Larry.
Speaker 5: My father went up getting to a fight knocking out
Speaker 5: Amiel Grifforth, and Larry liked, you know how he use
Speaker 5: his hands. So they went to Tony Bender, next Bender.
Speaker 5: If they can, you know, let them come to New York,
Speaker 5: come to Brooklyn, and they brought my father. Larry pressed
Speaker 5: my father and said you want to come brook with
Speaker 5: a crew and my father said yes, and he wound
Speaker 5: up being bodyguard to Larry from the sixty one or
Speaker 5: something like that till Larry died.
Speaker 6: So he wound up being a crew member with the
Speaker 6: Gallo family.
Speaker 5: What happened then when I get old enough to start
Speaker 5: hanging around and driving, I wanted to becoming a driver
Speaker 5: for my father and my godfather and Joshah Panny and
Speaker 5: broke my Chevy and that now I'm not in the
Speaker 5: block with the Preasustree boys. And one day this guy
Speaker 5: Louis the searing was like in the block which has
Speaker 5: had a big connection with with the Hashish. We got
Speaker 5: a big load off the docks. It was a really
Speaker 5: large load and Louis Sai we had a hard time
Speaker 5: moving all. So they reached out to Uh. We had
Speaker 5: a friend that knew, Carmen Delante, so my father went
Speaker 5: and approached them to see if they get some help
Speaker 5: move and the stuff.
Speaker 6: Common came down to the block. We had a meeting
Speaker 6: on President Street.
Speaker 5: We had to sit down on President Street and Common
Speaker 5: said that he can't do nothing, but he has other
Speaker 5: connections that would help us, and then started around floud.
Speaker 5: There was other conversation going on. And in the next meeting,
Speaker 5: we had to go up to Waisburg, you know, to
Speaker 5: go speak about the what he what he was going
Speaker 5: to do for us, and what the payment was going to.
Speaker 6: Be and stuff and stuff like that.
Speaker 5: And both times I was a gentleman. I mean, he
Speaker 5: didn't speak like noble guy, you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: He was not very friendly as far as though smiling
Speaker 5: and uh and happy, you know, jumping around. But I
Speaker 5: mean he spoke well, you know, very forceful, spoke well.
Speaker 5: He speaked like somebody that was big, very powerful, and
Speaker 5: he did the favor, got paid, well, got a piece
Speaker 5: of it. But that's what he wanted. He didn't want
Speaker 5: a big partners with nothing. He wanted an envelope.
Speaker 6: But that's what he got.
Speaker 5: And I know, I thought I was impressed with him.
Speaker 5: I thought he was you know, you know, he he
Speaker 5: was quiet and carried a big stick. And that's the
Speaker 5: we wound up meeting, and I wanted to meet him twice.
Speaker 5: There was other meetings in between, but I wasn't the
Speaker 5: driver on and I wasn't there.
Speaker 3: A couple of things Frank's did did not knock out
Speaker 3: Amiel Griffith in the ring. If he had, the things
Speaker 3: would have been very, very different. Amil Griffith was the
Speaker 3: middleweight champion of the world. They knocked him out in
Speaker 3: a bar fight because he was trying to bounce him.
Speaker 3: And one of the meetings with Calante with that Frank
Speaker 3: was at took place at Joe and Mary's restaurant on
Speaker 3: Nick Krbaker Avenue in the Bushwax section of Brooklyn. Yes,
Speaker 3: which of course is the scene it's Carmine Galante's final scene. Yes,
Speaker 3: it also takes place at that very spot, which was
Speaker 3: great for me when I'm trying to write the scene
Speaker 3: in the book, because I have a first person eye
Speaker 3: witnessed to what it looked like in there. He didn't
Speaker 3: get past the front door.
Speaker 2: You write throughout this book. The lack of cooperation that
Speaker 2: Galante has when he's in court to any question at
Speaker 2: any time. You write that he is a person that
Speaker 2: remains silent to almost any question asked to him in
Speaker 2: court whatsoever. You also talk about the pro violation that
Speaker 2: he winds up receiving and why, and also his legal
Speaker 2: problems and his competitor is is Foe Russtelli also have
Speaker 2: legal problems that they have to deal with and end
Speaker 2: up in prison. So tell us about this ongoing fight
Speaker 2: between the two and their raise into prison as a result.
Speaker 3: Well, my favorite story about Galante getting out of prison
Speaker 3: is that he had while he was in he made
Speaker 3: a list of gangsters who he wanted to die before him,
Speaker 3: and number one in that list was arch enemy Frank Costello.
Speaker 3: But Costello, damn him, had died of natural causes while
Speaker 3: Colante was in prison. So Galante orders his Zips to
Speaker 3: go to Saint Michael's cemetery and to blow up the
Speaker 3: tomb and to mess with the remains. And I don't
Speaker 3: think those are the exact words he is, but that's
Speaker 3: the idea. So sure enough, the Zips they buy dynamite,
Speaker 3: they go out there, they blow the door off of
Speaker 3: the place, and according to the police report, the remains
Speaker 3: had been disturbed. I not too many guys have the
Speaker 3: stomach for that kind of work because growing tough in
Speaker 3: Costello Mari. An interesting note, I went to Saint Michael's
Speaker 3: Cemetery last year to take a picture of the tomb.
Speaker 3: I went into the office as I always do, and
Speaker 3: he could be directions how to find the place, and
Speaker 3: they said, no, we can't. It's on our private list.
Speaker 3: We're not allowed to tell people how to get there.
Speaker 3: And just like fifty years later and they're still worried
Speaker 3: that somebody's going to be showing up with a hand grenade.
Speaker 3: Luckily I didn't have any trouble finding it because it
Speaker 3: is the biggest tomb in the entire cemetery, larger than
Speaker 3: some Manhattan apartments.
Speaker 2: You write that the lifelong relationship with Joey Beck would
Speaker 2: be Galante's downfall, and this was when he visited Joey
Speaker 2: Beck in the hospital, and this was the parole violation. Now,
Speaker 2: once he's in prison, he is notified of something very
Speaker 2: very interesting that he doesn't agree with. Tell us what
Speaker 2: he's notified in prison once he's there.
Speaker 3: So it seems to be one of the standard crazinesses
Speaker 3: that really powerful gangsters have is that they come to
Speaker 3: believe that they are bulletproof. I mean, it was the
Speaker 3: same way with Joey Galo and he definitely should have
Speaker 3: more security than he did, but you know, they can't
Speaker 3: shoot me, and that's his way of not thinking about it.
Speaker 3: And Galante refused all efforts to keep him secure. He
Speaker 3: just didn't believe it was real, probably not until the
Speaker 3: very moment that he had a shotgun pointed at the
Speaker 3: center of his chest.
Speaker 2: Before that, you chronicled the work of Joseph D. Pistone
Speaker 2: and people know him as Donnie Brasco, and so you
Speaker 2: call it the Donnie Brasco fiasco. How does he play
Speaker 2: into this and how is Galante affected? If at all?
Speaker 3: It makes the Banana family look foolish. And Galante's main
Speaker 3: ally who's Joey Bananas has been exiled to the American Southwest.
Speaker 3: He's counting cactuses. And he had a lot of support
Speaker 3: below him. He didn't have support above him. The Commission
Speaker 3: wasn't on his side. You know, the godfather, who had
Speaker 3: been his godfather since the day was born, was no
Speaker 3: longer in power. He was he was what he wanted
Speaker 3: to fill the void he saw, not realizing that he
Speaker 3: didn't get to make that choice.
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Speaker 5: What's every details?
Speaker 3: Now?
Speaker 2: We talked about the circumstances in which he is marked
Speaker 2: for death and who makes those decisions, but you also
Speaker 2: talk about actually the exiled Banano is called and also
Speaker 2: gives his approval as well. Meanwhile, in the press he
Speaker 2: has been called the boss of bosses, and it seems
Speaker 2: like he believes it. So take us to the circumstances again.
Speaker 2: At Joe and Mary's Italian American restaurant, which is a
Speaker 2: cousin of Galante as a matter of fact, and tell
Speaker 2: us what happens. You mentioned the tall guy which was
Speaker 2: his one of his bodyguards, which was six foot seven
Speaker 2: and part of what they were called zips, and his bodyguards,
Speaker 2: and also his beloved cousin Moe is there, and you
Speaker 2: did talk about for a bit about what happens during dinner.
Speaker 2: So tell us about this elaborate dinner outside beautiful temperatures,
Speaker 2: and what happens at that dinner.
Speaker 3: It's a little bit hot. It's eighty eight degrees out
Speaker 3: and they're sitting on pavement. It's July twelfth, typically the
Speaker 3: hottest day of the hottest month of the summer, and
Speaker 3: they're in the patio behind Joe and Mary's probably because
Speaker 3: there's no electronic surveillance devices. They're outside right now. Early
Speaker 3: in the meal, Angelo President Zano, Carmiden's trusted cousin Moe says,
Speaker 3: I don't feel so good. I got to go for
Speaker 3: a walk. They says, yea, yea before a walk, anything
Speaker 3: about it. So the guy who'd been on Gallante's side
Speaker 3: all along his whole life, even you know, got in
Speaker 3: trouble with him in prison, has now left his side forever.
Speaker 3: About two forty five in the afternoon, hottest time of
Speaker 3: the day, and they're between courses. The main meal has
Speaker 3: been eaten and everyone's waiting for the dessert to be served.
Speaker 3: Four men get out of a Mercury sedan on Nikoboka
Speaker 3: Avenue out front. Three of them are armed with handguns
Speaker 3: and a shotgun. Their faces are obscured by ski masks,
Speaker 3: which couldn't have been comfortable in that temperature either. They
Speaker 3: entered Joe and Mary's through the front door. Now, the
Speaker 3: fourth driver or the fourth guy was the driver Santo Jordano.
Speaker 3: He had the rifle and he stood guard on the
Speaker 3: sidewalk to make sure nobody came in during the shooting.
Speaker 3: Guy that Joe Toronto is the owner of the place.
Speaker 3: His son shouts out a warning when these guys come in,
Speaker 3: because the ski masks and the guns are dead giveaway.
Speaker 3: So while two of the gunmen moved swiftly through the
Speaker 3: restaurant and burst into the outdoor patio, the third was
Speaker 3: a dominic big trin Trinchera, stopped in the storeroom and
Speaker 3: shot and wounded Toronto's sons for shouting out a warning.
Speaker 3: He then joined the other two on the patio. But
Speaker 3: what are you doing? Toronto managed to say, looking back
Speaker 3: over his shoulder. He's the one who sat with his
Speaker 3: back to the entrance. Now the gunfire erupts, stands a Toronto.
Speaker 3: It's hysterical. In the kitchen, she's hiding behind a refrigerator.
Speaker 3: All three gunmen are turned to the men at the table,
Speaker 3: and Russell Morrow, I think, is the guy who actually
Speaker 3: kills Galante, and he does it with a shotgun blast
Speaker 3: to the center of Galante's chest, it says in the
Speaker 3: face on the back of the book, But I don't
Speaker 3: think that's way it happened. Gets the shotguns blast to
Speaker 3: the center of the chest and then handgun shots to
Speaker 3: the face. There's lighting a cigar when the shot takes place,
Speaker 3: and when he falls to the ground, his cigar is
Speaker 3: still in his mouth and his blood blowing out of
Speaker 3: his body into a drain. His life literally going down
Speaker 3: the drain and astoundingly has so often happened back in
Speaker 3: those days. Photographer from the daily news shows up before
Speaker 3: the cops, so there's pictures, you know, the exactly the
Speaker 3: way the scene looked before anybody showed up and started
Speaker 3: taking fingerprints. Now it was Bruno Whackwack and Delecato shot
Speaker 3: and killed Toronto and as there a the tall guy
Speaker 3: Bonventre he was he stood up during the shooting and
Speaker 3: joined the hit team. He shot and killed another guy
Speaker 3: at the table named Capola, and then fired two shots
Speaker 3: into his ex boss's dead body, just to let everybody
Speaker 3: know that he was on the side that winning.
Speaker 2: What's interesting is you write that there's a backup car
Speaker 2: outside the restaurant observing everything with Sonny red Into Locado,
Speaker 2: Joey Messino, jb Intacado and Phil Giacconi and a Modo
Speaker 2: and Bonaventure.
Speaker 1: Uh.
Speaker 2: You right that both of those guys had come into
Speaker 2: the restaurant strangely in leather jackets despite this hot weather.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I don't know what that would mean. Why you
Speaker 3: would wear a leather jacket for that occasion. They didn't
Speaker 3: arrive by motorcycle. I have no idea just fashion that
Speaker 3: could be. It might be a light weight light lets
Speaker 3: the jack guy.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it makes no sense. The guy's got guns on
Speaker 5: the murder anyway. I can't see no reason why that.
Speaker 3: They died in a polo shirt.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Now, you you right that there's retaliation for this eventually
Speaker 2: the people that murdered him get theirs.
Speaker 3: Although, yeah, cause and effect, it's sometimes hard to figure
Speaker 3: in these cases. If you start saying that everybody who
Speaker 3: who whacked somebody and then later got whacked got what
Speaker 3: they deserved, and I guess that's that's the way it goes.
Speaker 3: It's I know that from just from reading contemporary newspaper
Speaker 3: reports and then talking to Frank about what actually happened.
Speaker 3: It's sometimes very difficult to tell why somebody was whacked.
Speaker 3: You know, like murdering used to have Jewish guys and
Speaker 3: Italian guys, and the Jewish guys would whack the Italians
Speaker 3: who got out of line and vice versa, and it
Speaker 3: looked to the police if they caught somebody like the
Speaker 3: Jews and the Italians were at war with one another,
Speaker 3: when in reality you just had a set of professional
Speaker 3: killers who were taking care of guys who've done the
Speaker 3: wrong thing, and that's he had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 3: They're mixing up the ethnicities just to throw off the cops.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you write that in October eighth, nineteen eighty six.
Speaker 2: The case started in eighty three, But the people that
Speaker 2: were involved in the Galante hit into Galacado with his
Speaker 2: daughter testifying and nineteen eighty six finally brought to trial
Speaker 2: over the murder of Galante.
Speaker 3: Right, that's why we know the details of who shot who,
Speaker 3: because there was some testimony years later from my witnesses.
Speaker 3: I think that justice was done. I mean Galante was
Speaker 3: not a nice guy. He certainly if he had been
Speaker 3: given a contract at eighteen years old saying that you're
Speaker 3: going to live to be close to seventy and then
Speaker 3: you're going to go out to a shotgun blast, he
Speaker 3: probably would have signed that contract. I think he basically
Speaker 3: had the life that he wanted to have. He was
Speaker 3: never boss of bosses, but he imagined he was for
Speaker 3: a period of time, which probably was just as good.
Speaker 3: But yeah, I mean, you live that kind of life,
Speaker 3: that's how you're going to go.
Speaker 2: You're right of the trial in February eighty five to
Speaker 2: November eighty six which convicted Salerno, Corralo, Sontora, Greaneri, Persico, Langella,
Speaker 2: and Scopa, all these organized crime individuals who sentenced to
Speaker 2: one hundred years, except into Locado, which was forty years.
Speaker 2: At the end of this book, you talk about the
Speaker 2: Galante blood and Carmine's nephew tell us a little bit
Speaker 2: about the Galante blood.
Speaker 3: I don't know how much we want to talk about it.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that guy's getting out of jail soon. Yes,
Speaker 3: one of Galante's descendants was also had some trouble with
Speaker 3: the law. You know, not everybody, you know. And then
Speaker 3: I don't think that it's it's I don't want to
Speaker 3: imply that there's a gangster gene. It's being passed from
Speaker 3: generation to generation. But there was was a member of
Speaker 3: Galante's family who sort of followed in the family tradition
Speaker 3: and got himself into some pretty bad trouble. But you know,
Speaker 3: he's paid his debt to society and hopefully that's all.
Speaker 2: In the epilogue, you talk about the fate of the
Speaker 2: Bonano family and then just a state of organized crime
Speaker 2: after these commission hearings and all of the people that
Speaker 2: were informants. So tell us a little bit about the
Speaker 2: fate of some of these people that were involved.
Speaker 3: Well, it's Rico laws. Rico laws changed everything. It turned
Speaker 3: out that number one thing to break up gangs in
Speaker 3: the United States was a law which said that if
Speaker 3: you are the leader of an organization and the organization
Speaker 3: commits crimes, and you're guilty of those crimes, whether or
Speaker 3: not you had direct knowledge or gave direct orders to
Speaker 3: commit those crimes. And it's it's conspiracy law, is what
Speaker 3: it is. And it changed everything because you can no
Speaker 3: longer get away with plausible deniability. It just didn't work anymore.
Speaker 3: And ten years since were turning into life terms, and
Speaker 3: that may the pledge of Omerta seemed just a little
Speaker 3: less important. And of course, in the more generations you
Speaker 3: get away from Sicily, you know, the less you're gonna
Speaker 3: have that kind of thinking. So generally, the law enforcement
Speaker 3: took the wind out of this, took the wind down
Speaker 3: of the stells of the mob by changing the law,
Speaker 3: not necessarily through detective work or anything like that.
Speaker 2: You also talk. The only way to understand this Galante
Speaker 2: and the story is to also understand how the mafia
Speaker 2: were in not in denial, but pretended that they had
Speaker 2: nothing to do with narcotics, especially heroin.
Speaker 3: You know interesting that I read Joseph Bonano's autobiography It's
Speaker 3: called A Man of Honor, and five hundred pages long,
Speaker 3: little print, not a single mention of Carmine Galante as
Speaker 3: a guy who was his right hand man, who they
Speaker 3: went They went to Sicily together to set up a
Speaker 3: heroin system. But because Banano didn't want the world to
Speaker 3: know that he had partaken in dealing drugs, he couldn't
Speaker 3: he couldn't put Galante in his in his life story.
Speaker 3: They had to remove him entirely. So and and that's
Speaker 3: the that was the hypocrisy. They really didn't from a
Speaker 3: public relations point of view, I want to be thought
Speaker 3: of as guys who just we just help with people's vices.
Speaker 3: You know, you want sex, we give you women. You
Speaker 3: want to gamble, we give you gambling and that kind
Speaker 3: of thing. You know, what harm is being done, well, really,
Speaker 3: what harmon is being done here is a lot. I
Speaker 3: think they got away with it among themselves for years,
Speaker 3: basically through racism. They were just going to we're just
Speaker 3: going to sell the dope to black people. And I
Speaker 3: think there's a line like that even in The Godfather
Speaker 3: where they're trying to decide whether they should do this,
Speaker 3: and it's largely true they that's how they soothed their consciences,
Speaker 3: those of them who had consciences. I don't think a
Speaker 3: lot of you cared wed right.
Speaker 6: That big fat envelope helped a lot, you know, to
Speaker 6: tie the cheek right.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, a lot done with a fat envelope.
Speaker 2: Yes, I want to thank you very much Frank di
Speaker 2: Matteo and Michael Benson for coming on and talking about
Speaker 2: your extraordinary The Cigar, Carmine Galante Mafia Terror. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much for this interview. And it is there if
Speaker 2: people want more information, is there any way that they
Speaker 2: might contact you, Frank or find out more about your work?
Speaker 5: You get anything I have at the mobcadymag dot com.
Speaker 5: Everything I have for me and Mike Dunn is on
Speaker 5: there that's said. You get a hold of me mob
Speaker 5: candymed dot com for.
Speaker 3: Me, Just go to author Michael Benson on Facebook. You'll
Speaker 3: get the get the whole deal.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, Frank Dematteo and Michael Benson. Thank you, Dan,
Speaker 2: thank you The Cigar Irman Galante, Mafia Terror. Bye bye,
Speaker 2: all right, good night