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Speaker 1: What's going on? Thank you so much for listening to

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smartphone or tablet, and again, thank you so much for

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your support. All righty, so, yesterday we talked a bit

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about the open rebellion that is occurring in Democrat run

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cities and states like Chicago, Portland, Illinois. And I mentioned

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at the time that this was a that I view

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this as a nullification crisis. It's when states refuse to

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recognize the authority of the federal government, and in this case,

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it is immigration law. And I mentioned yesterday the fourth turning,

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and I've i played some of this audio. I believe

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this came from a podcast by Neil Howe. I think

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it's called Demography Unplugged, and this was this idea of

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the four turnings was developed by how along with a

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co author back in the nineties, and in fact, I

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think it was Bill Clinton told people to read this

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book when it was first published. I think that's right.

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It's been a while. I covered this back in March,

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and so yesterday, while discussing what is now to me

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an obvious example of a nullification crisis that's unfolding in

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these democrat run cities and states regarding the enforcement of immigration,

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I mentioned the Fourth Turning. So I went and I

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pulled those audio clips. So let me start with Neil

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Howe again, one of the authors of this concept.

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Speaker 2: And it's all suffused with its image of armageddon and violence,

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meaning that if the wrong side wins, it's all over

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for America. And I think there's a lot of worry

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in America about the increasing imagery of violence and dead ends,

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you know, for our democracy.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So there are four different periods in the fourth

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in the fourth Turnings Fourth turnings, obviously, the first they

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called the high, the second turning is the awakening, the

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third is the unraveling, and then the fourth is crisis.

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And so the fourth turning, crisis is what he believes

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we are in. He has said this in interviews on

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his podcast. This audio actually comes from his appearance on

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a podcast hosted by David Lynn, and he was asked, like,

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what are some of the signs that the fourth turning

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or the crisis is here.

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Speaker 2: We see a growing pessimism about in most high income

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countries and in fact in a lot of emerging market

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countries about the long term future well, people in their

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own lives and people thinking about their kids' lives, and

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that this is a striking decline. It's a greater pessimism

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than and I've looked back at polls going all the

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way back to the late nineteen seventies, which in America

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was a time of great pessimism, and yet this exceeds that.

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And there were reasons why people were very pessimistic in

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the late seventies, This exceeds that, and particularly the sense

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of long term wrong track, right. You just all the

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polls indicate that. And along with that, you see this

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growing trend toward populism around the world in politics, often

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combined with a certain sort of ethnocentric authoritarian leadership model.

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I'm thinking particularly in East Asia, South Asia, but you know,

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look at Europe, look at South America, look at the

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United States, right, and these are both facets of the

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same generational trend. We've seen it again and again. This

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is this long eighty year cycle we're talking about, right,

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And what comes at the end of that is this

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time of crisis where we reinvent the system, a system

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which have become very sclerotic and unresponsive because of all

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the time this passed since the last crisis. Right.

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Speaker 1: So what he's arguing here is that each one of

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these seasons, essentially of a society, is about twenty years long.

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And after you get to the end of the full cycle,

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which would run somewhere you know, north of eighty years,

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the people have all been replaced now because everybody has

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died just through you know, normal lifespan. Everybody is dead,

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and so have you enter into the crisis phase and

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then you emerge after that with another high phase. And

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if you go back eighty years from where we are now, right,

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like the tracks, you've got these these periods where you'd

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World War two, go back prior to that crisis, Civil war, right.

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So like these the trend lines all kind of act

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the same way. And if you think about it, the

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way like the natural cycle of things, whether it's economic,

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whether it's natural winter, spring, summer, fall, right, And that's

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essentially what they're they're laying out, and there is I

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don't know, there's there. There's a certain cleanness to the theory, right,

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and a continuity to this theory to all things that

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we see around us. That things move in cycles. He says,

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it is a cycle that tracks with the aging of populations.

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Speaker 2: The bottom line is is that you eventually reach a

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time where absolutely no one alive remembers how institutions actually

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dealt with crisis. Right. Okay, it's at that time where

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the crisis is again most likely. And that is that

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is absolutely a pattern of history, and that was part

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of the whole point of the book is to see

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how that works. And this is why I talk about

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different types of generations. You know, why we have boomer

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like generations born right after a crisis, you know, usually

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coming of age, you know, stormy against the strong institutions

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built by their parents, often their war winning fathers. And

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how after that the system disintegrates, right, we call this

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the unraveling. We become a much more individualistic society. We

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have it find it very difficult to respond cohesively and

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collectively to collective problems. And ultimately that leads us into

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the fourth turning, which is where we have to reinvent

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ourselves under an urgent threat, and usually that threat involves

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organized conflict.

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Speaker 1: Right, He says the types of conflict can be internal, external,

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or both. At the same time the book was written

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in nineteen ninety seven, they predicted events. For example, that

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there would be a major financial crisis in the two

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thousands to twenty tens. They got that one. They said

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there'd be a pandemic at some point, nailed that one.

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They predicted a tea party movement aimed at limiting federal debt,

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they got that one. They predicted that Russia would start

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invading former Soviet states. Nailed that one too. And as

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part of the crisis phase, what Neil Howe predicted was

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that the crisis phase would probably be sparked by some

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kind of nullification crisis. And at the time he said

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this was probably about five years ago. I saw in

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an interview he said that it was going to be

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immigration related. And at the time I mentioned this yesterday,

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that Texas was trying to put up a barrier along

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its border with Mexico along the Rio Grande, and the

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Biden administration sued to get them to tear it down,

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and the question at the time was is Texas going

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to abide by the federal government's demands? Are they going

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to abide the federal court? And they did. But that's

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what how was pointing to as an example of how

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this nullification crisis would unfold. Of course, fast forward five

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years and now you have Trump in office trying to

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actually enforce federal law, and now you've got Democrat led

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jurisdictions trying to nullify that federal law. That's what we're seeing.

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That's what I'm seeing. You know, stories are powerful. They

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tell others to come who you are. Visit creative video

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dot com. No, I do not believe that the marriage

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of Taylor Swift and Travis Kelcey was predicted in the

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Fourth Turning as a sign of the crisis, But some

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Swifties are taking it as such. Yeah they're mad because

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she's now like she's normalizing marriage or something. Yeah. I

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don't follow it either, but whatever. Neil Howe, author of

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the Fourth Turning, talking about the nullification issue as the

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issue that would animate the crisis in the Fourth Turning.

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There are four turnings, four periods. One of them is

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called crisis. It's the fourth one. It's sort of the winter,

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I guess, and this is when things before the unraveling,

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or sorry, after the unraveling, comes the crisis, when nobody

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alive remembers how any of the systems can solve these

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collective problems, and so the unraveling begins and then it

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turns into a crisis. Now you have this nullification issue.

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He predicted it would be regarding immigration, but at the

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time it was Biden trying to make states not enforced

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immigration law where states wanted to. Now five years later

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it is the opposite.

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Speaker 2: Nullification is an old theory which really dates back to

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the original Constitution. It was there, by the way, with

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the anti federalists who were arguing against Hamilton Madison and

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Jay Right the federalist papers. They were arguing that the

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states should have more autonomy, they should preserve more autonomy.

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If there was a law or an edict by the

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federal government that an individual state really did not want,

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it should be able to excuse itself from it, right,

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I mean, this is the idea that we are truly

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a federal republic and that states should have their own

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maneuvering room. You know, we came together as separate nations,

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so to speak, to form the United States. And this

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was actually promulgated by both the Jefferson and Madison in

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the Virginia and Kentucky Resolutions in response to what John

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Adams did with the alien sedition loss. This is in

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the late seventeen nineties, and it came back again and

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again in the ante Bellamya, with Calhoun and the tariff crisis,

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and ultimately with the Civil War, which led us into

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I mean that was the ultimate not just nullification but secession. Right,

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This is when the states decided to secede. But it

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has come up since then, in other words, at what

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point can a state decide to opt out of certain

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federal arrangements? Right?

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Speaker 1: And he said, you're never going to know what the

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issue that sparks it will be. It could be immigration,

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could be an education issue, taxes, regulation, something anything that

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states don't want to enforce.

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Speaker 2: But what will happen is they will not enforce it.

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The administration will say, well, you must enforce it, and

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the states will kind of you know, a number of

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states will ban together and they said, well, we actually don't.

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And ultimately you see where this leads, David, is the

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states say, in effect, we're not going to enforce it.

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We're here on the ground, we're not going to collect

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this revenue or enforce these regulations. And in fact, that

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the the communication of the federal government, what are you

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going to do about it, you know, and that then

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becomes a standoff of authority. And then if the if

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the federal government does not enforce its will, well, then

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of course the gate is open. Then states can start

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doing other things, you know what I mean. And by

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the way, this came up historically, David, in the in

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the Civil War when the states seceded, and this is

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you know, they all succeeded. They actually formed a confederacy

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even before Abraham Lincoln even got into office. We swore

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in presidents later then we swore them in in March, right,

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so that that five months everything had already happened before

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he even came into office. And many people came to

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him and said, let the South go, many abolitionists. David

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said to Abraham Lincoln, let the South go. I mean,

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they're gone. Now we can actually do all the reforms

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that we wanted in the United the States. And I

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think this is going to be what causes the issue

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to escalate, because it will be very clear that the

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president and his or her party will not be alligned

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to back down. They can't back down. They will lose

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all credibility if they back down. So they got to

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step it up. The other side will step it up.

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You see how this works. These things never start intending

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to be a conflict, but they end up as a

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conflict because both sides can't back down.

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Speaker 1: So the Department of Homeland Security Secretary Christy Nome appeared

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on Fox News yesterday and said she issued an ultimatum

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to Portland's top officials to contain the antifond demonstrations. Antifont

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now designated terrorist organization the Administration the DOJ tracking the funding.

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President Donald Trump said in September that he ordered troops

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to defend ICE facilities in Portland from Antifa after Christynom

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requested reinforcements. Nom said she told Portland's mayor point blank

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that federal authorities would cover him up with a surge

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of manpower if city leadership failed to enforce basic security measures.

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She said. She appeared on a Jesse Waters show after

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she had just met with the mayor and said she

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was extremely disappointed. Here's a great idea. How about making

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an anniversary, a honeymoon, Maybe you want to plan a

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big old reunion. Cabins of Asheville has the ideal spot

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and the things that truly matter. Nestled within the breath

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taking fourteen thousand acres of the Pisga National Forest, their

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cabins offer a serene escape in the heart of the

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of the Great Smoky Mountain National Park. It's the perfect

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balance of seclusion and proximity to all the local attractions

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with hot tubs, fireplaces, air conditioning, smart TVs, Wi Fi grills,

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memories that'll last a lifetime. Here is the quote from

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Christy Nome. She said, yesterday, I just met with the

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mayor of Chicago, sorry Portland, and I'm s' so extremely

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disappointed he's continuing to play politics. Did not commit to

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any of the promises and said that he'd give me

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an answer by tomorrow, and I'm hopeful he will. What

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I told him is that if he did not follow

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through on some of these security measures for our officers,

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that we are going to cover him up with more

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federal resources, and that we were going to send four

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times the amount of federal officers here so the people

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of Portland could have some safety. So this is how

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as Neil Howe was explaining, right, this is how each

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side ratchets up. So we're not going to do anything

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to secure the ice agent's safety at the ice facilities

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in our city, even though that's our job, right, even

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though when an officer is surrounded by a mob, any

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officer in any federal or local or state law enforcement

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division comes to their aid to help their quote brother

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in blue. But except I guess in Portland now you'll

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get stand down orders like we had in Chicago. Just

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leave the scene, don't help those ice agents, and so

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that's ratcheting up. And so now the FEDS come in

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and they're like, Okay, well, if you're not going to

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do it, we're going to send even more. We're not

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going to have instead of four hundred troops or whatever,

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we're going to send in two thousand National Guard. And

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then what like, then what's the next ratchet up from

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the cities and the states. Well, Chicago has opted for

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ice free zones, which is fine because I think at

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this point, you know, summer's over, you don't really need

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so much ice anymore. It's like kind of cooling off

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in Chicago. Anyway, I'll get to that in a minute.

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First let's get to Scott. Hello, Scott, welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: I see, thanks am I College. On the subject of

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nullification and perhaps secession, I've always wondered, why do we

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pay our taxes to the state and then separately pay

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to the federal government. Is it possible, on the subject

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of modification, that the state could ever take control of

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that and collect all the tax revenue and then distribute

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to the Feds that portion in which they agree to,

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let's say, And then that way each state would have

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its own bigger set of autonomy. It would have its

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own control mechanism to keep the Feds honest. And I'm

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gonna take my I'm driving, so I'm going.

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Speaker 1: To take yeah, no, all right, Yeah, it's an interesting idea, Scott,

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I've never heard that before. You are correct that the

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state has its own department of revenue and then you

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know the IRS at the federal level. But they're different

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mechanisms because some states don't have income taxes, right, so

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they're not drawing that out of your paycheck. So yeah,

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I'm not so sure that. Well, I would I would

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be willing to wager money, good money, although I would

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not do that because I'm not a gambling man. But

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if I were a gambling man, I would be willing

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to wager good money as opposed to counterfeit money that

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the Feds would never allow that. They would never allow

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that because it would allow the states to then withhold

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that funding, and that's not the relationship the federal government

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wants with the states. The Feds want to withhold the money.

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They're the ones that want to withhold the money, whether

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it's you know, highway money or you know grants that

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kick down to the states or whatever. They want the

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money to wash through the federal government. And this is

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what happens. This is what Neil Howe had mentioned also,

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And I see this where you said that you got

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these organizations that become sclerotic, right, Well, that's the federal

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government and it's you know, state and local governments as well.

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They get bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger, and

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they start doing all of these different things that they

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shouldn't be doing. They lose sight of their first priorities

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like safety on a light rail train, for example. They

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start creating different departments and agencies and directives to do

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stuff that nobody really asked them to do, except maybe

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like two people that come down every single city council

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meeting and clamor about, you know, some pet project they

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want to see done. So I think that and that

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then becomes part of the you know, unraveling, where you

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are presented with problems and you no longer know how

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to address them. And maybe part of that can be

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explained with our inability to have debate anymore. People have

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forgotten how to have a debate, how to have a conversation,

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how to have a discussion. At the beginning of the

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last hour hour two. We had a caller named Tom,

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and he was calling because he wanted to talk about

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something that he wanted or he wanted me to talk

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about something that he thought was going to make a

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point about the Jews. And I engaged with him and

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asked him some questions. You know me, I'm a why guy.

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I like to ask the question why. So I asked

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him some why questions and his response and I saw

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somebody they picked up on it on the text line.

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I forget who I saw say this, but they picked

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up on it. Is that every time I asked him

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to explain why he was saying something or why he

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believed something that he was saying, he would shift the

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conversation to a what about or this other topic. He

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would try to deflect away. This is what I mean.

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We've lost the ability to have an actual debate about

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a discreete topic or issue. Right If you're going to

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call me and say that I should be talking about

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the Talmud when I was talking about Christian perssecutution globally

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and bringing in data about that in the slaughtering of

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Nigerians and such one, I'm covering that topic and your

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00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:09,680
response is what about the talmud, why aren't you talking

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about the Jews? I then ask, why are you asking

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me to talk about that topic when I was talking

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about something unrelated And he couldn't answer it. But I

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know the answer. I know the answer is that he

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wants me to bash the Jews, like that's he that's

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where he wants the focus of my ire to be.

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But he doesn't want to say it, and so he

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comes up with this silly question, which is not you know,

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in good faith, it's not part of like a Socratic

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method search for truth. It's a it's a deflective device.

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It's what about ism? And it's a it's a very

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cheap debate tactic, which once you realize, like once you

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hear it and you know it for what it is,

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then you just keep dragging the person back to the

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original question, to the topic. It gets exhausting. I know

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you've heard me do it many many times, I'm sure

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with callers that want to move off of the thing

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because they know they are not on solid ground, so

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they want to get to a more advantageous position. So

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they want to shift my focus to a different thing

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00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:24,640
because they're losing the current argument. We've lost that as well.

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That's part of the unraveling. So when I was a kid,

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00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,240
my grandpa died with Alzheimer's, and before he died, my

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00:25:30,319 --> 00:25:32,160
mom and my dad took care of him as he

393
00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:35,039
got worse. Forty years ago, there were no treatments and

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00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,200
not much support for caregivers and family. But things are

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00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,839
different today because of the work of so many people,

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00:25:41,079 --> 00:25:44,440
including the Alzheimer's Association of Western Carolina. It's a great

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00:25:44,519 --> 00:25:47,799
organization with awesome people with huge hearts. I've been a

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00:25:47,799 --> 00:25:50,720
supporter for twenty five years. This cause means a lot

399
00:25:50,799 --> 00:25:54,119
to me. I participate in the annual Walk to end

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00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:57,039
Alzheimer's and I'm leading a Charlotte team again this year,

401
00:25:57,319 --> 00:26:00,720
and it's called once again Pete's Pack. Sign up and

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00:26:00,759 --> 00:26:03,000
you can join the team and walk with us. It's

403
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:06,559
on October eighteenth, that truest field. Sign up at alz

404
00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:09,799
dot org slash walk and then you could search for

405
00:26:10,039 --> 00:26:12,759
my team name Pete's Peck. There's also a link at

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00:26:12,799 --> 00:26:15,640
thepetepod dot com. There's also a link in the description

407
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:19,279
of this podcast. Also, I'll be am seeing the Gastonia

408
00:26:19,319 --> 00:26:21,519
Walk on October eleventh then, so you can make a

409
00:26:21,559 --> 00:26:24,079
team and join that one too, or make a donation

410
00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,440
and help me hit my goal of five thousand dollars.

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00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,559
If you do, I really appreciate it. There are a

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00:26:28,599 --> 00:26:31,200
bunch of other walks all over the Carolinas. You can

413
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,960
go to alz dot org slash walk for all the

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00:26:34,039 --> 00:26:37,599
dates and locations. We're closer than ever to stopping Alzheimer's.

415
00:26:37,640 --> 00:26:39,400
Can you help us get there? Will you walk with me?

416
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,519
For a different future, for families, for more time for treatments.

417
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,319
This is why we walk? And somebody asks, what the

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00:26:48,359 --> 00:26:52,680
heck is an ice free zone? Glad you asked. According

419
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:59,039
to the Chicago Sun Times article, city property, including parking

420
00:26:59,079 --> 00:27:04,960
lots next to Chicago public schools, libraries, parks, and city buildings,

421
00:27:05,680 --> 00:27:11,200
cannot be used as staging grounds for raids by US

422
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:15,480
Immigration and Customs enforcement agents under an executive order signed

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00:27:15,559 --> 00:27:20,200
Monday aimed at what President or Mayor Brandon Johnson Let's

424
00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,759
go Brandon called President Donald Trump's forceful display of tyranny.

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So law enforcement is a forceful display of tyranny. I

426
00:27:31,599 --> 00:27:34,200
guess all the Democrats are libertarians?

427
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 2: Now?

428
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:36,519
Speaker 1: Is that what's happening here? No, of course not. This

429
00:27:36,599 --> 00:27:39,559
is just because it's Donald Trump Orange Man bed and

430
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:42,799
also they you know, Democrats are viewing this as an

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00:27:42,839 --> 00:27:48,480
existential threat to their power, right, It's about power dynamics.

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00:27:50,079 --> 00:27:55,319
They are afraid that if this mass campaign of deportation continues,

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00:27:56,079 --> 00:28:02,160
Democrats will lose seats in the House of Representives. Because

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if you deport ten to twenty million people, and I

435
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,519
believe we are now on track to have deported like

436
00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:11,039
between one to two million people in the first year,

437
00:28:12,559 --> 00:28:15,000
and a lot of them self deporting. I should add

438
00:28:16,720 --> 00:28:23,039
that that decreases your population count in the twenty twenty census,

439
00:28:24,279 --> 00:28:28,599
and that means you don't get as many House seats.

440
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,200
It also means you don't get as many Electoral College

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00:28:33,279 --> 00:28:38,039
votes for president. See, this is an existential threat to

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00:28:38,119 --> 00:28:43,519
Democrats' power. That's why they are ramping this up. It's

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00:28:43,559 --> 00:28:46,839
the latest of three executive orders that Johnson has signed

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00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,160
in what so far has been a failed attempt to

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00:28:50,279 --> 00:28:54,240
stop or slow the deportation campaign that has sewed fear

446
00:28:54,279 --> 00:28:58,000
and chaos in the Chicago area and at times triggered

447
00:28:58,039 --> 00:29:02,160
clashes between protesters and ICE agents in the city and

448
00:29:02,359 --> 00:29:09,160
suburbs over the By the way, why is it sowing fear?

449
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,240
Why would it be sowing chaos. What's the chaos about?

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00:29:14,079 --> 00:29:20,559
Is that from the leftist protesters blocking streets, docksing ICE

451
00:29:20,640 --> 00:29:27,000
agents getting into fisticuffs with the federal law enforcemental officers

452
00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:30,960
ramming their vehicles while armed. Is that the kind of

453
00:29:31,039 --> 00:29:33,240
chaos you're talking about. So that's the ICE agent's fault

454
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,119
because they're following law, because they've been tasked with enforcing

455
00:29:38,119 --> 00:29:41,119
a law, because you guys haven't been enforcing the law,

456
00:29:41,279 --> 00:29:43,839
and now somebody is coming to town to enforce the law.

457
00:29:45,279 --> 00:29:48,880
Over the weekend, Trump ordered hundreds of National Guard troops,

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00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,920
including three hundred from Illinois and four hundred from Texas,

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00:29:52,039 --> 00:29:55,640
to assist in his deportation campaign in Chicago as well

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00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:58,799
as other cities, which this has now prompted the left

461
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:10,200
to claim the at Texas is invading Illinois. Lefties, if

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00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:15,799
Texas invaded you, like for real, you would know it, okay,

463
00:30:16,599 --> 00:30:23,759
you would know that the Texans have invaded Chicago. But wait,

464
00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:29,200
I thought Chicago was already Maga country, didn't. Juicy Smoley

465
00:30:29,359 --> 00:30:33,279
tell us that right in his in defense of his

466
00:30:33,319 --> 00:30:38,160
foot long subway sandwich in a hate crime attack in

467
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:40,839
the dead of night during a polar vortex. He said

468
00:30:40,839 --> 00:30:42,839
that some people had come up and screamed at him

469
00:30:42,839 --> 00:30:46,039
that it's Maga country in Chicago, so maybe they're right,

470
00:30:46,079 --> 00:30:49,759
maybe Texas is invading. All right, that'll do it for

471
00:30:49,799 --> 00:30:52,480
this episode. Thank you so much for listening. I could

472
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,759
not do the show without your support and the support

473
00:30:54,759 --> 00:30:57,640
of the businesses that advertise on the podcast, so if

474
00:30:57,640 --> 00:30:59,640
you'd like, please support them too and tell them you

475
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:01,880
heard it. You can also become a patron at my

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00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,319
Patreon page or go to dpecleanershow dot com. Again, thank

477
00:31:06,359 --> 00:31:08,880
you so much for listening, and don't break anything while

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I'm gone.