WEBVTT 1 00:00:07.320 --> 00:00:09.000 So we're getting good. 2 00:00:09.720 --> 00:00:13.720 We gotta tell our audience we're actually this recording that 3 00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:19.239 you're hearing was recorded seven days in your past. So 4 00:00:19.399 --> 00:00:22.719 for us, about an hour ago the Pope got announced. 5 00:00:23.440 --> 00:00:25.519 Yeah, and American. 6 00:00:25.879 --> 00:00:28.320 I think they probably just picked an American so that 7 00:00:29.320 --> 00:00:30.519 GD wouldn't kill him. 8 00:00:30.960 --> 00:00:33.039 I also read a tweet online that it's the Vatican 9 00:00:33.119 --> 00:00:35.799 strategy to avoid tariffs. 10 00:00:37.079 --> 00:00:39.600 Yeah, first American, first American Pope. 11 00:00:39.759 --> 00:00:42.359 I did like maybe two weeks ago, reading an article 12 00:00:42.399 --> 00:00:45.240 about the front runners, and I think the article that 13 00:00:45.280 --> 00:00:47.159 I read didn't even mention this guy. It might have 14 00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:49.039 mentioned him as like an honorable mention at the end, 15 00:00:49.079 --> 00:00:51.479 but like all the front runners, it seemed to be 16 00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:55.280 between like the really progressive pick was this Filipino that 17 00:00:55.399 --> 00:00:56.719 was kind of like seen as it would have been 18 00:00:56.759 --> 00:01:00.719 a direct continuation and even more progressive than Francis. And 19 00:01:00.759 --> 00:01:05.239 then there was like actually another American guy as well 20 00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:08.680 as maybe an Italian who uh and like an African 21 00:01:08.719 --> 00:01:11.400 that we're considered kind of like the very very conservative 22 00:01:11.400 --> 00:01:14.959 front runners. And this guy, from what I've read, seems 23 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:17.959 to be like pretty middle of the road centrist, So 24 00:01:18.000 --> 00:01:20.200 I feel like he's probably a compromise in the in 25 00:01:20.239 --> 00:01:23.599 the conclave between like the progressives and like the one 26 00:01:23.599 --> 00:01:26.280 piece of analysis that make kind of makes sense if 27 00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:29.079 you're just thinking the Catholic Church is like a business, 28 00:01:29.120 --> 00:01:32.640 it's like, well, where are we growing, right? We're growing 29 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:35.879 in all the most conservative places, right, And where's all 30 00:01:35.879 --> 00:01:39.000 the pressure to be more progressive coming from the secular 31 00:01:39.040 --> 00:01:41.359 world where people are stopping being Catholics. So it's like, 32 00:01:41.400 --> 00:01:44.280 why would we pick a super progressive guy when like, 33 00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:47.000 if we were, you know, in the global North becoming 34 00:01:47.439 --> 00:01:50.640 like pushing for a Catholic, a progressive Catholic church, and 35 00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:53.079 we were all becoming Catholic, Well, yeah, sure that that 36 00:01:53.079 --> 00:01:55.000 would make sense. But we're not right, we're all fucking 37 00:01:55.000 --> 00:01:57.120 getting we're all turning our backs on the shirt. So 38 00:01:57.159 --> 00:01:59.719 I understand from the perspective of the church that they're like, well, 39 00:02:00.159 --> 00:02:02.159 we can't really pick a super progressive guy because that's 40 00:02:02.159 --> 00:02:04.519 just going to alienate everyone in Africa and Asia who 41 00:02:04.599 --> 00:02:05.480 like is Catholic. 42 00:02:05.599 --> 00:02:07.959 We again, we haven't heard him speak yet, we haven't 43 00:02:07.959 --> 00:02:10.120 heard his whatever address from the bound. 44 00:02:09.879 --> 00:02:12.639 Yeah he did, he spoke, Oh did you Okay, he 45 00:02:12.680 --> 00:02:14.759 spoke right afterwards, he just spoke in Latin. And then 46 00:02:14.759 --> 00:02:16.319 I think he spoke in Spanish a little bit and 47 00:02:16.360 --> 00:02:18.319 just said a bunch of nonsense shit that you would 48 00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:19.719 expect someone to say, like, h. 49 00:02:19.759 --> 00:02:21.719 Didn't he get announced like two hours. 50 00:02:21.400 --> 00:02:24.039 Ago though, Yeah, but when he gets announced he comes 51 00:02:24.039 --> 00:02:24.680 out right away. 52 00:02:25.039 --> 00:02:26.319 Oh okay. 53 00:02:26.360 --> 00:02:28.360 For me, it's just always funny to watch like all 54 00:02:28.400 --> 00:02:30.960 these adults like wearing these costumes and I'm like, holy shit, 55 00:02:30.960 --> 00:02:33.759 they're taking this shit so seriously, Like it's just look 56 00:02:33.800 --> 00:02:36.439 at these fucking LARPers like it's this is crazy, Like 57 00:02:36.479 --> 00:02:37.960 look how serious they're taking it. 58 00:02:38.319 --> 00:02:41.360 If you look at look at other institutions that have 59 00:02:41.520 --> 00:02:43.639 roots in the Middle Ages, and you see the same 60 00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:47.319 sorts of things. What do you see a graduation ceremonies, 61 00:02:47.520 --> 00:02:49.479 for example, You see a. 62 00:02:49.439 --> 00:02:51.400 Lot of pomp and splendor. 63 00:02:50.960 --> 00:02:54.560 And gowns and outfits and ceremony. 64 00:02:55.439 --> 00:02:55.840 Yeah. 65 00:02:55.919 --> 00:02:58.840 It just just shows you that the ruins of the 66 00:02:58.840 --> 00:03:01.639 feudal world were used to construct the capitalist world. 67 00:03:01.919 --> 00:03:02.719 That's how it worked. 68 00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:07.000 All right, Well, why don't we transfer trans transfer. 69 00:03:07.000 --> 00:03:08.719 To other stuff that's going on the news. 70 00:03:09.000 --> 00:03:12.680 We'll move over to our topic du joure because there's 71 00:03:12.680 --> 00:03:13.680 a lot to cover. 72 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:16.919 Which is related to a timely news event in Canada. 73 00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:20.120 What is that getting a new prime minister. 74 00:03:20.439 --> 00:03:22.479 Oh yeah, hey, everyone, a new leader. 75 00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:27.039 We asked Diego to bow out for this episode because 76 00:03:27.039 --> 00:03:32.400 we didn't want any foreign influence. Yeah, discussion, this is, 77 00:03:32.479 --> 00:03:37.479 this is in Canada. Business. Episodes about Canadian politics don't 78 00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:38.520 do very well. 79 00:03:38.639 --> 00:03:40.560 I actually do kind of. I do kind of wish 80 00:03:40.599 --> 00:03:42.520 Diego was here so that he could talk about the 81 00:03:42.599 --> 00:03:44.800 lack of a material analysis in this book over and 82 00:03:44.840 --> 00:03:45.319 over again. 83 00:03:45.719 --> 00:03:49.599 M M, well he's here in spirit, now I can 84 00:03:49.639 --> 00:03:52.960 do that. We got a new prime minister, never never 85 00:03:53.000 --> 00:03:56.039 been in politics before. He was the head of the 86 00:03:56.080 --> 00:03:59.400 European or the UK, Bank of England, the. 87 00:03:59.319 --> 00:04:01.520 Bank of England, the Bank of Canada before. 88 00:04:01.240 --> 00:04:04.280 That, and he just jumped in here and uh beaten 89 00:04:04.400 --> 00:04:06.960 some sacks Wall Street experience or something too. 90 00:04:07.080 --> 00:04:12.400 Yeah Goldman Sachs, Yeah, Brookfield Capital. So we read his book, 91 00:04:15.159 --> 00:04:16.120 it's six hundred. 92 00:04:15.879 --> 00:04:18.120 Pages, cheerfully every word. 93 00:04:18.519 --> 00:04:21.639 It's six hundred pages long. We read part We've jumped 94 00:04:21.639 --> 00:04:24.519 around in his book and sent clips to each other 95 00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:28.000 and kind of got the vibes. But the reason that 96 00:04:28.879 --> 00:04:32.480 we find Canadian politics so boring because they are just 97 00:04:32.560 --> 00:04:37.240 objectively boring. Relatively speaking, it's like watching American politics, but 98 00:04:37.319 --> 00:04:41.199 with the mute button on. So we have we have Poliev. 99 00:04:41.279 --> 00:04:45.199 Polliev is just in likeness and speech, a copy of 100 00:04:45.600 --> 00:04:48.600 Ron Decientists, but with the with the volume turned all 101 00:04:48.639 --> 00:04:49.199 the way down. 102 00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:50.560 That's good. I like that. 103 00:04:51.040 --> 00:04:51.800 Oh yeah, it's good. 104 00:04:53.319 --> 00:04:55.439 Some people try to say Polyev is like Trump. He's not. 105 00:04:55.519 --> 00:04:57.319 I think a much more apt comparison. I think you're 106 00:04:57.360 --> 00:04:59.399 exactly right. He is like a Ronda scientist. That's that's 107 00:04:59.399 --> 00:05:00.160 exactly right. 108 00:05:00.360 --> 00:05:04.199 Or like Himmler, you know, just like a dorky, evil 109 00:05:04.240 --> 00:05:08.399 little nerd. But he got beaten by this piece of 110 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:11.439 white bread. You guys heard him talk yet? 111 00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:12.399 Who mar Kearney? 112 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:14.160 Yeah, oh yeah, for sure. 113 00:05:14.199 --> 00:05:16.199 I watched him. I watched his visit, he visited the 114 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:16.680 White House? 115 00:05:17.240 --> 00:05:19.439 And what did Trump think of him? 116 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:21.879 Trump seems to really like him, and I think, which 117 00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:23.879 is funny. And I think it's just because of his 118 00:05:23.959 --> 00:05:27.519 finance bonafides, Like it's just the fact that this guy's 119 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:29.920 like been a banker that Trump seems to respect him. 120 00:05:29.920 --> 00:05:31.319 And I will say, when they were having their little 121 00:05:31.360 --> 00:05:33.879 press event sitting beside each other, I think Carney did 122 00:05:33.879 --> 00:05:35.439 a really good job, like as good of a job 123 00:05:35.480 --> 00:05:38.600 as you can do, considering the circumstances like he he 124 00:05:38.720 --> 00:05:41.759 kind of he kind of like threw in little praises 125 00:05:41.879 --> 00:05:44.920 that were actually kind of like backhanded compliments. Like I 126 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:47.920 think he said something like, oh, Trump, look, you've you've 127 00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:51.920 totally reinvigorated the like the like global defense initue. 128 00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:54.399 Importance of like national security all over the world. 129 00:05:54.480 --> 00:05:55.959 Trump like it's true, it's true. 130 00:05:56.199 --> 00:05:58.120 Oh and starts with like a praise. 131 00:05:58.319 --> 00:06:01.079 Yeah, And he got asked about like fifty first state thing, 132 00:06:01.199 --> 00:06:03.920 and Trump like obviously went on to talk about why well, 133 00:06:03.959 --> 00:06:05.360 He's like it's not really up to me. It takes 134 00:06:05.360 --> 00:06:07.279 two to tango, but like it would beautiful, you know, 135 00:06:07.399 --> 00:06:10.120 like seeing that one piece of land and it's got 136 00:06:10.639 --> 00:06:12.920 a race that that line that's some guy with a 137 00:06:13.000 --> 00:06:15.800 ruler just just cut across it. And then like Carney, 138 00:06:15.839 --> 00:06:18.959 I think he had he had like lines ready, right, 139 00:06:19.000 --> 00:06:21.759 and he said he's like yeah, He's like if I may, 140 00:06:21.839 --> 00:06:24.720 you know, He's like, Trump, you're in real estate, like you, 141 00:06:24.759 --> 00:06:27.120 so you understand that there are some things that are 142 00:06:27.160 --> 00:06:29.439 not for sale. And Trump was like it's true. And 143 00:06:29.480 --> 00:06:31.439 he's like we're sitting in one right now, the White House, 144 00:06:31.519 --> 00:06:33.759 right can't be for sale. And he's like yeah, that's true. 145 00:06:33.839 --> 00:06:36.879 That's true. And he's like, and I've talked to I've 146 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:39.000 talked to the owners of Canada when I was campaigning, 147 00:06:39.560 --> 00:06:41.800 and you know, they made it very clear to me 148 00:06:41.879 --> 00:06:43.519 that Canada is not for sale and it's not going 149 00:06:43.560 --> 00:06:44.319 to be for sale ever. 150 00:06:45.120 --> 00:06:47.240 It's such a funny I noticed, that's such a funny 151 00:06:47.240 --> 00:06:48.959 way to put it to I talked to the owners 152 00:06:49.000 --> 00:06:50.879 in Canada. He's like, love, let me just put this 153 00:06:50.920 --> 00:06:52.639 in another way you'll understand. 154 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:54.240 Be a little little child. 155 00:06:54.279 --> 00:06:56.399 Well that's you could tell that was deliberate, Like for 156 00:06:56.480 --> 00:06:58.040 sure he thought of that. He's like, let me, let 157 00:06:58.079 --> 00:06:59.680 me put it in those terms that he'll understand. 158 00:07:00.160 --> 00:07:02.040 He means the electorate presumably. 159 00:07:02.240 --> 00:07:04.360 Yeah, yeah, I. 160 00:07:04.319 --> 00:07:05.920 Think it was just like the owners. 161 00:07:06.040 --> 00:07:08.319 I'm talking to a real estate guy, so there's like 162 00:07:08.399 --> 00:07:11.000 owners and tenants and that's all. Those are two types 163 00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:13.680 of people. But yeah, you know, he I saw the 164 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:18.240 analysis like he stroked Trump's ego before he laid down 165 00:07:18.319 --> 00:07:20.600 some idea that he wanted to put forward. 166 00:07:20.959 --> 00:07:22.000 He was well prepared. 167 00:07:22.120 --> 00:07:24.720 So the very few times he was allowed to speak, 168 00:07:25.120 --> 00:07:27.480 he just said exactly what he wanted, which was to 169 00:07:27.519 --> 00:07:30.360 push back on the fifty first state thing. And to 170 00:07:30.439 --> 00:07:34.199 talk about Canada and the States coming to some kind 171 00:07:34.199 --> 00:07:36.720 of agreement around the tariff situation. 172 00:07:37.160 --> 00:07:39.839 It's good. It shouldn't be that hard to handle Trump 173 00:07:39.879 --> 00:07:44.000 because psychologically he's like nine years old, like he wants 174 00:07:44.079 --> 00:07:46.639 Canada and America to be the same country just because 175 00:07:46.800 --> 00:07:47.959 look look at how big. 176 00:07:48.079 --> 00:07:49.879 Exactly exactly, that's what you know. 177 00:07:50.439 --> 00:07:53.759 A lot of it comes back to different ways of 178 00:07:54.560 --> 00:07:58.120 viewing Trump, like either as a child or as like 179 00:07:58.319 --> 00:08:02.720 dangerous and at least least surrounded by people who know 180 00:08:02.839 --> 00:08:06.319 what they're doing. Maybe if he just kind of has 181 00:08:06.360 --> 00:08:08.839 a vague direction he goes in and then there's the 182 00:08:08.879 --> 00:08:10.920 people around him who sort of know how to get 183 00:08:10.959 --> 00:08:13.199 him there. And I saw that in the coverage. Again, 184 00:08:13.240 --> 00:08:16.120 Oh look how Mark Karney like handles Trump. He's so 185 00:08:16.240 --> 00:08:19.879 good at handling Trump. Stroke his ego first, and then 186 00:08:20.000 --> 00:08:21.639 you know, deliver a blow. 187 00:08:21.639 --> 00:08:23.800 Tell him he's a big boy. Yeah. 188 00:08:23.839 --> 00:08:25.279 I mean, I think you kind of have to do that. 189 00:08:26.120 --> 00:08:28.839 And I think he he towed the line well in 190 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:33.320 It was somewhere between Zelenski, which was a disaster, and 191 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:35.679 then and then here Starmer. I don't know if you 192 00:08:35.679 --> 00:08:38.080 guys ever saw clips of when the British Prime minister visited, 193 00:08:38.120 --> 00:08:41.159 but it was hilarious. He was like, he was like, Trump, 194 00:08:41.200 --> 00:08:44.399 I have for you like an envelope. It's never been 195 00:08:44.440 --> 00:08:47.919 done before. It's an invitation from the king. And he's 196 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:52.039 like this is unprecedented, and like he loves using all 197 00:08:52.120 --> 00:08:53.960 his language and it was like really funny and he 198 00:08:54.039 --> 00:08:56.320 was like oh wow, and like just yeah. 199 00:08:56.440 --> 00:08:59.600 Then Trump like congratulates Carney and like acts like he 200 00:08:59.639 --> 00:09:02.919 gave him the election, which he kind of did, but 201 00:09:03.039 --> 00:09:03.399 they did. 202 00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:05.720 Yeah, he said, he was like he was like I 203 00:09:05.759 --> 00:09:08.399 think he said in the meeting. He was like he 204 00:09:08.519 --> 00:09:10.279 was like, you know, some people might say I'm the 205 00:09:10.279 --> 00:09:11.720 best thing that's ever happened to this guy. 206 00:09:13.279 --> 00:09:16.120 Yeah, he doesn't care that the Conservatives lost. He just 207 00:09:16.200 --> 00:09:19.399 cares that it was he was the cause of it. 208 00:09:19.919 --> 00:09:22.840 That's all he wants. So yeah, I mean that's that's 209 00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:25.919 the funny thing. That's the funny way to talk about Trump. Anyway. 210 00:09:26.879 --> 00:09:29.279 So speaking of what he's dangerous. 211 00:09:29.000 --> 00:09:35.039 Canada and big, big Canada, it's very big folks. Did 212 00:09:35.039 --> 00:09:37.960 you know that this guy was born in the Northwest territories. 213 00:09:38.320 --> 00:09:38.960 I did know that. 214 00:09:39.919 --> 00:09:43.240 Have you ever met someone from the any of the territories? 215 00:09:44.240 --> 00:09:46.720 Yes, I have. I used to have a teacher who 216 00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:47.840 is from the Yukon. 217 00:09:47.960 --> 00:09:51.200 I think, yeah, back when we were kids, there was 218 00:09:51.279 --> 00:09:55.039 only two territories and now there are three. But how 219 00:09:55.039 --> 00:09:57.720 do we how do we explain this to the international audience, 220 00:09:57.799 --> 00:10:02.399 because they're the territories are like by land mass, like 221 00:10:02.559 --> 00:10:06.080 half or a third of Canada, probably half, But they 222 00:10:06.120 --> 00:10:09.360 have like the population of a suburb, like less than 223 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:12.360 less than two hundred thousand people. Because it's oh yeah, 224 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:13.000 because it's cool. 225 00:10:13.039 --> 00:10:15.039 I think I think each one has less than one 226 00:10:15.080 --> 00:10:19.399 hundred thousand, and I think like only a couple tens 227 00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:23.279 of thousands each. I don't know. They're just like territories. 228 00:10:23.279 --> 00:10:28.000 They're very it's like mostly it's like a couple of small, 229 00:10:28.399 --> 00:10:31.759 very very small cities of like ten to fifteen thousand people. 230 00:10:31.840 --> 00:10:35.200 I think maybe like Yellowknife or white Horse, which are 231 00:10:35.200 --> 00:10:39.399 the capitals of the Northwest Territories and Yukon respectively, have 232 00:10:39.559 --> 00:10:42.039 like twenty or thirty thousand each, if I'm not mistaken. 233 00:10:42.399 --> 00:10:45.519 Do we know why Mark Carney was up or his 234 00:10:45.559 --> 00:10:47.559 parents were there where they are they. 235 00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:49.840 Well, he ended up being raised in Alberta, though. 236 00:10:50.120 --> 00:10:53.720 Of course it's one degree right now in a white 237 00:10:53.720 --> 00:10:57.000 Horse and here it's like nine, so it's it's not 238 00:10:57.080 --> 00:10:57.639 that cold. 239 00:10:57.840 --> 00:10:59.120 Well, it's the springtime. 240 00:10:59.399 --> 00:11:01.840 In the winter, it's probably like forty forty boys. 241 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:04.360 White Horse has thirty five thousand people, so that's like 242 00:11:04.399 --> 00:11:05.080 the biggest city. 243 00:11:05.879 --> 00:11:08.120 Well, I think if you wanted to find a topic 244 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:11.639 more boring than Canadian politics, I think Canadian geography and 245 00:11:11.720 --> 00:11:15.799 population distributions is so congratulations if that was your goal. 246 00:11:17.200 --> 00:11:17.919 I'm sorry. 247 00:11:18.039 --> 00:11:18.360 I just. 248 00:11:19.879 --> 00:11:22.919 I just think that people would think that we would 249 00:11:22.960 --> 00:11:24.960 like know or I don't know that we would know 250 00:11:25.039 --> 00:11:27.240 more about this, but this is it might as well 251 00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:28.279 be a different country. 252 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:29.720 It's boring to us too. 253 00:11:29.879 --> 00:11:33.440 I mean, people who were raised in Ontario don't learn 254 00:11:33.519 --> 00:11:36.840 French because we just don't have our pride until somebody 255 00:11:36.960 --> 00:11:39.559 threatens to annex us and then we all get our 256 00:11:39.720 --> 00:11:43.960 find our national pride once again and vote Liberal once again, 257 00:11:43.960 --> 00:11:48.120 which is Canada's natural ruling party according to Wikipedia or 258 00:11:48.120 --> 00:11:48.879 somewhere I read. 259 00:11:48.799 --> 00:11:53.279 That that truly is. We read his book, This is 260 00:11:53.320 --> 00:11:58.159 a guy. This is a guy, Harvard educated, Oxford educated. 261 00:11:59.039 --> 00:12:02.639 His book is very interesting title for fans of our 262 00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:09.720 podcast because it's value bracket s bracket, so value and 263 00:12:09.879 --> 00:12:15.440 values in one six hundred page book written by a banker. 264 00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:19.960 But I thought, you know, values, values and value. I 265 00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:25.000 think of Nietzsche for the first and Marx as a 266 00:12:25.000 --> 00:12:29.639 as the value theorist par excellence. And Marx actually gets 267 00:12:29.679 --> 00:12:34.000 a lengthy section in this in this book that I read, 268 00:12:35.399 --> 00:12:38.000 it's kind of he finishes with the mark section and 269 00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:40.200 then doesn't ever reference it again. 270 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:42.200 I wouldn't call it lengthy. 271 00:12:42.799 --> 00:12:43.559 What is it? Uh? 272 00:12:44.480 --> 00:12:47.960 I would tell you, like, very obligatory. 273 00:12:47.120 --> 00:12:50.080 And dismissive is what it was. But you know, what 274 00:12:50.120 --> 00:12:50.879 would you expect? 275 00:12:51.159 --> 00:12:54.960 It's about ten pages. He goes through Adam Smith, Daniel 276 00:12:55.039 --> 00:12:58.879 Ricardo and then Marx and and basically just says, this 277 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:04.600 is what value you was in neoclassical thinking, and yeah, 278 00:13:04.759 --> 00:13:08.399 doesn't doesn't ever mention it again. But uh, the book was. 279 00:13:09.399 --> 00:13:11.200 It was much better than I expected. I have to 280 00:13:11.240 --> 00:13:16.080 admit it's it's it's wrong in a kind of shocking 281 00:13:16.240 --> 00:13:20.000 way that you that someone who's this well educated, who 282 00:13:20.120 --> 00:13:25.000 is this important in the world, could be so naive, 283 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:29.360 Like how did how does someone this smart be this dumb? 284 00:13:30.159 --> 00:13:33.000 And that's my view, So maybe I'm maybe I'm the 285 00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:35.919 idiot here, but I would expect I would expect some 286 00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:38.080 some better insights from the manager of a of a 287 00:13:38.159 --> 00:13:38.840 national bank. 288 00:13:38.879 --> 00:13:41.159 If it were, this is exactly what I was expecting. 289 00:13:41.279 --> 00:13:43.399 I mean, I like, with that pedigree, right, he was 290 00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:49.000 at Oxford Harvard educated, he's he's center right or sorry, 291 00:13:49.000 --> 00:13:52.120 center left. I you know, he was actually even more 292 00:13:53.200 --> 00:13:57.600 like at least virtue signaling towards like left wing concerns 293 00:13:57.600 --> 00:13:59.519 than I expected. So it's like, like, maybe that's what 294 00:13:59.559 --> 00:14:01.200 you meant by it was like better than you expected. 295 00:14:01.639 --> 00:14:03.440 No, I just meant. I just meant the writing, like 296 00:14:03.480 --> 00:14:04.720 the anecdotes were apt. 297 00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:07.720 That shouldn't be a surprise. With that education Oxford and Harvard, 298 00:14:07.720 --> 00:14:10.639 I'm sure it would be well written. I mean, but 299 00:14:10.639 --> 00:14:13.000 but I mean I think it's Yeah, but in terms 300 00:14:13.039 --> 00:14:17.840 of its philosophical sophistication or like or just conceptual nuance, 301 00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:20.360 it's yeah, it's pretty bad. It's just kind of hopeful, 302 00:14:21.000 --> 00:14:23.639 hopeful nonsense that we can have capitalism with a more 303 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:26.679 friendly face, effectively putting it super simply, that's basically the 304 00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:28.399 idea we can make capitalism nicer. 305 00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:30.519 I'm glad you. I'm glad you say that because I 306 00:14:30.559 --> 00:14:33.320 wrote I wrote in my summary here, this is just 307 00:14:33.399 --> 00:14:36.240 normal neoliberalism, but with a happy face drawn over. 308 00:14:36.320 --> 00:14:37.240 That's exactly what it is. 309 00:14:37.799 --> 00:14:39.639 And this is like he's I. 310 00:14:39.679 --> 00:14:42.279 Have to disagree with that assessment. 311 00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:47.399 He's naive in the way that like greenwashing campaigns would 312 00:14:47.440 --> 00:14:49.679 work on this guy, Like he's a he's a kool 313 00:14:49.679 --> 00:14:50.879 aid capitalist. 314 00:14:51.960 --> 00:14:53.799 Oh, Eric disagrees with us. 315 00:14:53.840 --> 00:14:54.799 Let's hear it. 316 00:14:54.879 --> 00:14:59.320 Well, you know, just just because for me, neoliberalism is 317 00:14:59.399 --> 00:15:03.000 like unready related capitalism, and to me, it seems like 318 00:15:03.039 --> 00:15:07.600 Mark Carney's going back towards a more Chiusian kind of 319 00:15:07.879 --> 00:15:13.039 semi regulatory model, right, like he believes like, well, we'll 320 00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:15.000 get into the nuts and bolts of it, I guess 321 00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:17.919 a little bit, but you know that there's value on 322 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:20.799 the one side, right, like market value what he manages 323 00:15:20.879 --> 00:15:24.240 as a banker. And then there are values plural like 324 00:15:24.320 --> 00:15:29.799 social subjective values, right, like the reason you enjoy wine 325 00:15:29.879 --> 00:15:32.679 and what you like to do with wine versus like 326 00:15:33.600 --> 00:15:36.879 what the actual economic value of wine is. That's like 327 00:15:37.039 --> 00:15:41.360 more or less his distinction is drawn on that line, right, 328 00:15:41.480 --> 00:15:47.159 And yeah, so you know, I it's maybe it's just 329 00:15:47.240 --> 00:15:50.759 the definition of the term neoliberal, right he seems like yeah, 330 00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:53.519 like Victor said too, right, Yeah, he's going to go 331 00:15:53.759 --> 00:15:57.200 towards a more regulatory framework, so I don't know, I 332 00:15:57.240 --> 00:16:00.639 wouldn't call it neoliberalism. You know, the article The Canadian 333 00:16:00.679 --> 00:16:03.440 Dimension agrees with you, though, because it's titled you know, 334 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:06.039 I read Mark Carney's book, so you don't have to, 335 00:16:06.159 --> 00:16:10.559 and then subtitled Carney's commitment to shoring up the neoliberal 336 00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:15.000 status quo will only undermine Canada in the long term. 337 00:16:15.519 --> 00:16:18.960 So you know, no, Eric, you're right. I'm I'm I'm 338 00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:23.519 impressed with your analysis, Eric, because I think that there 339 00:16:23.639 --> 00:16:26.519 is what I think you're putting your thumb on is 340 00:16:26.639 --> 00:16:28.799 that there is like a bit of a leftist tendency 341 00:16:29.240 --> 00:16:33.919 or whatever to just like call anything that's defending capitalism 342 00:16:34.639 --> 00:16:37.399 just neoliberalism. And I think that, like, you're right, that 343 00:16:37.440 --> 00:16:39.399 there's actually a nuance there that like you know, you 344 00:16:39.480 --> 00:16:41.000 can still you can be there's such a thing as 345 00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:45.600 other forms of capitalism, and neoliberalism means something more specific. 346 00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:47.879 So I applaud you for your nuance. 347 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.919 I say, yeah, let's go for the precision here at 348 00:16:51.000 --> 00:16:53.840 least right now. And I don't deny that like regulation 349 00:16:54.039 --> 00:16:56.679 and deregulation kind of go hand in hand, and there's 350 00:16:56.759 --> 00:16:59.200 like a bit of a blurry, there's a bit of 351 00:16:59.240 --> 00:17:01.919 a blurriness there, but you can see the way he 352 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:07.200 writes is he's he's like celebrating the marginalist revolution and 353 00:17:07.319 --> 00:17:13.519 economics and yeah, kind of reviving Keynesianism, but adding this 354 00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:17.000 idea of like corporate responsibility and social. 355 00:17:16.799 --> 00:17:19.559 Values, which is all voting vague. 356 00:17:20.440 --> 00:17:23.799 It's what what's that word? It's like patristic or whatever 357 00:17:23.880 --> 00:17:26.480 that word. I keep forgetting that frickin' word. But it's like, 358 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:31.200 you know, the benevolent overseers to make sure that our 359 00:17:31.279 --> 00:17:34.359 markets are actually working towards the long term social good 360 00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:38.559 by these benevolent overseers who are like semi government, semi 361 00:17:38.720 --> 00:17:40.759 not because they're kind of central banks, so they have 362 00:17:40.839 --> 00:17:44.000 their independence from the government as well. But you know, 363 00:17:44.119 --> 00:17:47.319 they're not just aiming to maximize, you know, the markets, 364 00:17:47.640 --> 00:17:51.000 whatever stock market value. They're trying to make it work 365 00:17:51.119 --> 00:17:54.359 for society. So we got to have corporate responsibility and 366 00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:57.359 the idea that we're all stakeholders, you know, like like 367 00:17:57.480 --> 00:18:00.440 the song all the celebrities sent to us so kindly 368 00:18:00.599 --> 00:18:03.640 during COVID, we're all in this together, right, and it 369 00:18:03.720 --> 00:18:06.079 really that message really worked and brought us all together, 370 00:18:06.160 --> 00:18:06.480 didn't it. 371 00:18:07.559 --> 00:18:10.359 Well, this is not a huge disagreement, but I still 372 00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:14.240 think it's neoliberal, Like, especially around chapter six, he's talked, 373 00:18:14.359 --> 00:18:19.160 he praises Thatcher and Reagan and a lot of what 374 00:18:19.319 --> 00:18:22.799 he thinks is gonna are he hopes happens is public 375 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:27.000 private partnerships. I would say so he wants. But again, 376 00:18:27.079 --> 00:18:29.759 you're you're right that he says we need to rein 377 00:18:29.880 --> 00:18:33.680 in the bad things, and then the bad things are 378 00:18:33.799 --> 00:18:38.599 like he describes these in moral terms, which is kind 379 00:18:38.640 --> 00:18:42.160 of weird for a banker, But he never says like 380 00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:45.640 we're actually going to pass laws like closing tax loopholes 381 00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:48.519 or anything. It's more, it's more, we're gonna if we 382 00:18:48.680 --> 00:18:50.680 if we get our values correct. 383 00:18:50.759 --> 00:18:52.839 That's the thing that's the biggest flaw with this book. 384 00:18:52.920 --> 00:18:53.759 It's nonsense. 385 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:57.960 Yeah, then Volkswagen and gold min Sacks, they're all gonna 386 00:18:58.000 --> 00:19:00.160 fall in line because they're gonna see that this is 387 00:19:00.200 --> 00:19:04.720 the better way. So if you were to to regulate 388 00:19:04.880 --> 00:19:09.240 with a heavy hand, then I would that would be impressive. 389 00:19:09.720 --> 00:19:11.680 But let's get back to we want to summarize the 390 00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.599 title of this book, the layout, what's he hoping for? 391 00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:20.480 It starts off with just philosophically, a massive mistake in 392 00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:24.960 my view, which is to say that value there's something 393 00:19:25.039 --> 00:19:31.359 called objective value and then subjective values. So values these 394 00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:36.400 are just things that are randomly chosen apparently, and they 395 00:19:36.440 --> 00:19:44.519 include here's his list, solidarity, fairness, responsibility, resilience, sustainability, dynamism, 396 00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:48.440 and humility. So just the whole bunch of bullshit buzzwords basically. 397 00:19:48.880 --> 00:19:53.039 But we need to bring these values back solidarity, fairness, 398 00:19:53.079 --> 00:19:58.319 responsibility into value, and value is just you know, the 399 00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:02.599 market doing mar get shit. Anything else you want guys 400 00:20:02.720 --> 00:20:04.640 to add to that? Is that close enough to the split? 401 00:20:04.759 --> 00:20:06.960