Speaker 1: Hey, it was a going welcome to cleeve to and
tick what do you? My name is Ben and I
am joined by the one, the only Jay Dyer.
Speaker 2: What's going on? Brother? What's up? Man? Glad to be back.
Whether you had a great time at the conference in
the soupro with you and glad to be back on
your channel.
Speaker 1: Yeah, man, that was a great time. Are you going
to do the conference again next year?
Speaker 2: I would imagine. So, of course it's up to Father Vladimir,
but my assumption is that he would he would probably
want to do it, and he'd probably want to try
to expand it. I know Neil's really hyped about expanding
it to maybe get instead of two hundred people, maybe
getting three, four or five hundred people. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that there was a lot of people at this
last conference. I was telling I was telling my wife,
I'm like, you should have came, because I got her
a ticket to go anyway, but she ends up having
to work because she's getting a promotion, so she's like
locked in right now. But I was like, I could
have convinced her that I was actually famous, because a
bunch of people came up and like, hey, you're cleave,
you know, it's like I got a trickter Man. You
don't get that anywhere else except for like the world.
But it was a good time, man. But thanks for
coming on the show. This will be an interesting talk,
kind of a little bit controversial, but I think good
info stuff that nobody's really talking about. It's kind of
shocking to me. I feel like people don't really know
the geopolitical backdrop to what is going on. This is
all kind of just coming out of the blue for
a lot of people. So I'm excited to have this
discussion for sure.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on, man. Yea, I love to
talk about this topic. It's It's one that I've covered
for a long time and I don't really I never
shy away from it. But you're right, it is kind
of controversial, and hopefully we can bring some clarity and
some insight. I approach it not as a conspiracy thereist,
but as somebody you know that really tries to get
into the actual geopolitical texts and the history. And we've
done many interviews with experts and special us even in
this field. We've done interviews with my buddy Mark Hackert,
who's serbing Orthodox guy, and he's a Russia analyst. He
did his grad work on history of Russia and Russian
language studies, so he's done a lot of really deep
research into old KGB texts that were only recently translated.
And then we did an interview some years back with
Metropolitan Jonah on the history of the Russian Church because
that's an area that he also knows quite a bit in.
And then of course Jim Jottras as well. We've done
many many interviews going back six seven years with Jim.
So I apologize, I'm a little bit still congested and sick,
but we'll make it work. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I saw that interview with Metropolitan Jonah.
Speaker 2: It was very good.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot of things that have happened in
the past year. So we have now an American pope,
We've got the anti Russian pro EP narrative that is
emerging in the United States. As far as we saw
this with that one representative that was posting Wilson, Yeah, Rep.
Joe Wilson that was posting basically a kind of dialectic.
He was like, look, these are the two versions of Orthodoxy.
And then you have the the EP, which is like,
you know, this is the nice uh you know, kind
of Americanized or more amenimal to American values Orthodoxy, and
then you've got all the wicked, evil Russian you know, Orthodox.
This is kind of dialectic that's emerging. You see it
also some of the prep work kind of taking place
right now. We see in the Greek Orthodox Argidiocese right
now they're fighting for control of parishes financially. Jim johntriss
I was posting about this not that long ago, with
that fight with the one parish in New York City
where LP de Forrest was fighting for control of the
finances over that particular parish. They actually gave them alone
to be able to take control of that. So, you know,
it's kind of angling up. From my perspective, it seems
like all of the leg work, the groundwork is being
laid so that later on, if there is any kind
of descent, it would make it near and possible for
anybody that would disagree with any kind of union there.
But a lot that's happened in this year. I think
maybe a good part to start with would be the
historical geopolitical backdrop that kind of underpins all of this.
This is one thing that you talk about quite a bit,
but maybe a good place to start with would be
Operation Claudia. We could talk about the Roman Catholic side
and then move into maybe some of the similar geopolitical
ties and the EP.
Speaker 2: Yeah, one little anecdote story before we get into that.
I remember when I first came into Orthodoxy and was
meeting with some of the first clergy and the first
bishop that I met. We went to dinner, and I
didn't think much of this at the time, but I
mentioned in passing that I had begun doing quite a
bit of social media and an alternative media type stuff
and I was really putting information. And this may have
been twenty sixteen seventeen, this was almost ten years ago.
Many of the clergy perked up when I said that
I had done an interview with Alexander Dugan. They were
very alert and concerned that do we have a Duga
night here that's going to be entering into and infesting
the church with these errors or something. And you know,
it's funny because that all came about just because I
merely by sending a DM. And what I think a
lot of people don't realize is that when people want
to promote a book, if somebody's having a new book
put out. They're pretty accessible when it comes to doing interviews.
And I didn't have a very big channel ten years
ago or a podcast. It was kind of a you know,
small to mid tier outlet relatively speaking. And the first
time I sent the email or the message on Facebook,
I didn't hear back from Dugan for about a year,
and then a year later, around twenty fifteen sixteen, he
replied and we did a podcast, and that was right
when twenty sixteen, Russia Gate, Trump, all of that was
beginning to kick off. I had not yet been on
a Jones's show, but Alex had Dugan on. It became
a huge controversy back then, in twenty sixteen or whatever,
because now they were trying to portray Alex, who at
that time was early very pro Trump, you know, pushing
the Trump Maga line. Back then, they were trying to say, well,
he's a Russian agent. So I was kind of being
inadvertently adjacently lumped into Russian agent even from the very
earliest days of me coming into orthodoxy back at that time.
And it was a difficult situation because it wasn't just that,
it was also you know, I had some of these
other controversial positions and takes, and I would also do
podcasts on the relationship between intelligence agencies in geo's think
tanks and the Church as a form of soft power.
So I think from the outset for me, this has
kind of been an immediate problem, more struggle with being
in the world of orthodoxy, and it did obviously contribute to,
you know, why I ended up ultimately out of ro
Corp Church. But people should understand too that contrary to
representative Joe Wilson, rope Corps is pretty much independent. It's
in communion with the Moscow patriarchy, but Moscow patriarchy doesn't
like tell us everything to do or whatever, so there's
quite a bit of independence and freedom to you know,
disagree with this or that policy, or this or that
geopolitical stance. So a lot of this is I think
built on Boomer era people with Cold War era mindsets
and misconceptions about where we are now today, what the
concerns are now today. Someone like Joe Wilson, I think,
considers this sort of a you know, hold over the
Russians or the bad people. But just think about the
failure of the Russia Gate narrative and the Russia collusion
narrative with Trump, I said day one a manute video
in twenty seventeen calling it out as fake. Eventually I
was totally vindicated in that analysis because it was all
cooked up by British intelligence and Christopher Steele, the Steele dossier,
et cetera out of the UK as a targeted political situation.
Now that doesn't mean I'm wholesale behind everything Trump does.
I have plenty of criticisms of Trump, and I've always
had those criticisms from day one, But definitely the Russia
collusion narrative was concocted and was obviously part of a
kind of a psychological warfare political campaign. So to bring
that full circle back to Gladio, maybe before getting into
the Gladio, you know, I rambled quite a bit there.
If you have anything to say on that, it's your show,
I'll let you out, let you reply. But suffice to say,
like Dugan, I think is a very marginal kind of figure.
I don't really think he has that much influence and power.
I think that, you know, he's got a lot of
these kind of fringy type of views, and even from
the first time I did that inner with Dugan. It
was when his book Fourth Political Theory came out. I
read the book and had significant disagreements with the last chapter.
The last chapter was very gnostic. I don't know that Eurasianism,
where Islam and Christianity unite in some sort of cultural,
you know, war against Western liberalism. I don't really think
that's very feasible. So I've never really been totally on
board with that stuff. I just as a person coming
out of academia, I read a lot of geopolitical stuff.
I read all the you know, big guys like Brazienski, Kissinger,
jack Out to Lee. So it seemed natural to me
to read somebody like a Dugan and try to have
a conversation. But you know, so a lot of people
will just sort of draw conclusions from merely talking to
somebody who or doing an interview, even if you stress
all the areas where you disagree. That's kind of died
away though. That was a significant criticism ten years ago,
but we're still sort of lingering in. As you noted,
I think this era of this older generation of people
that are Americanized in the Orthodox Church specifically, and Americanism
is first and foremost above Orthodoxy. I've seen this, you know,
since I came in, and it's more important for them
to be an Americanist or to hold to the Enlightenment
ideals of Americanism than traditional Orthodox ideas. I think that
the solution is the other way around. Orthodoxy should come first,
the ethos of Orthodoxy, and then we judge that we
judge Americanism through that right, not the other way around.
So I think that's a big part of the picture here,
and that's not to cast dispersions on all boomers. Of course,
there's many great, great boomers in the Orthodox world. My
godfather Dean Arnold, love him to death. Jim Jatras, great dude,
love him to death. So there's plenty of great you know,
baby boomers. But before we get to Gladio, I'm sorry.
I'll let you reply here to any of that if
you want to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think I think you brought up a
very important point when you're talking about this kind of
like Cold War dialectic, because it's really where a lot
of this starts, with some of these geopolitical ties into
both camps. Because really what we're going to be focusing
on and discussing we'll probably branch out into some other topics,
But is the geopolitical ties between the Roman Catholic Church
and then also within the EP that could potentially influence
them into some sort of union in the future. Now
we're not saying this is like an imminent thing, like
this is going to happen. Now, let's all panic. So
I don't think that's the case. Usually it's about two
steps forward, one step back, so on and so forth.
It's we're going to make you know the statements to
the opposition. But what I would like to examine today,
I guess is some of the geopolitical backdrop. I've got
a lot of information I've reported on this for quite
some time regarding some of the geopolitical ties of the EP,
specifically during the time of the Cold War, which is actually,
interestingly enough, the same time that these same geopolitical ties
kind of present themselves into the Roman Catholic Church. Now,
I know you're not. You don't necessarily think Freemasonry has
a big impact today, But at the time this was happening,
they kind of did play intermediate between some of these
major geopolitical powers, and as you were saying, they were
trying to make inroads to assert soft power using these institutions,
and you really have to realize the kind of dialectic there.
Once they have the inroads into the Roman Catholic Church,
they you know, they have some standing within Europe, but
then you look at the East, well, what's going on there.
They're trying to push back against Soviet power, so they
need to get their foothold where they can and where
they tried to do that was basically within the ecumenical patriarchy,
which we'll talk about in a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. I mean, I think you're right to point
to both sectors here, both Orthodoxy and you know, the
Roman Catholic world would definitely play huge roles in the
Cold War, and also the evangelical world too. We can't
forget that even figures like Billy Graham were discussed by
the CIA as figures that could be kind of mouthpieces
for Western Theism, Evangelical Christianity, et cetera, also being crucial
forms of self power. And to bring that to the
present day, you can even see that in the Ukraine today.
In fact, the CIA State Department put a lot of
in a lot of money and support behind a lot
of charismatic groups, believe it or not in the Ukraine
because charismaticism humanism, because ultimately it has its roots and
being kind of a Western geopolitical project, it would play
a key role in helping to dislodge and break up
the Orthodox ethos that existed in the Ukraine so that
they can want and more easily sort of split the
country and move it into the under the sphere of
Western influence of the Anglo powers, so to speak. But yeah,
to bring in the Roman Catholic world. And I think
the Roman Catholic world is easier to see in this
regard because the papacy is such a focal point for
that whole, for the West, in Christianity in general, and
you know, for the Roman Communion, when the papacy changes
or does something significant in this way, everyone can see it.
So when we have a massive change in the doctrine
or the theology or the ethos of Vatican two, for example,
with the humanism and whatnot, we might be tended to
think that there's only theology nerds behind this. But in reality,
as I was when I was a tradcat, especially the
more I got into the history of the Church and
geopolitics and studying espionage. Even in grad school, I started
to realize that no, actually, uh, there's other factors at play.
There are geopolitical power block interests that definitely wants to see.
I mean, if you were the state, imagine yourself as
a ruler president, You're you're at the CIA of the
state department. Wouldn't you want a powerful institution like the
Vatican with almost a billion adherents back then that could
turn this whole engine right towards the West. That's a huge,
tremendous entity. And so now it's just natural to power
struggles and power relations that you would want that. But
it was the same for the Soviets. The Soviets also
had many programs that targeted Catholic clergy, targeted the Vatican.
They had spies in the Vatican. In fact, there's actually
a good book by a CIA guy that we covered
on my channel. His name is Eric kaylor k O
e h l E R. And I think he's a
writer used to be in the CIA, and then he's
a writer post CIA about espionage topics and espionage history.
He wrote a book about the Soviet spies and the Vatican,
and I recommend that book because it's from the establishment,
basically saying, yeah, this is what the CIA was involved in. Yeah,
this is why Gladio, you know, was kind of necessary.
But I also recommend people read the appraisals of Gladio too.
Like Paul Williams is a Catholic writer, and he's kind
of the opposite of the Paul Kayler perspective where he
writes a book saying this is really a signifier of
high level corruption in the Vatican and particularly in the
Church in Italy. So the focus of Operation Gladio was
what's called stay behind units where they would train people
who are sort of black ops, guys, sabotage guys, assassins,
you name it, to be able to engage in radical
big T type actions should there be a Soviet NKVD
Stalinist invasion of Europe. So the justification was the Cold
War necessitates this kind of of an emergency scenario in
the case of you know, Russia expanding into Europe. And
so I think to be nuanced, you know, we can
understand why people would think that way. So this is
not about a good guy bad guy thing. Okay, we're
not saying everybody on this side is bad or whatever
in the calogy Church. I understand the modus operanda and
why they would have thought this way. The problem is
that when you allow yourself to make these big level
alliances with introduced like the Central Intelligence Agency or the
Soviets as well, you're then kind of in bed with
and you're kind of locked into a relationship. It's very
difficult to untangle from and with Gladio. It's not just
about these cells that were trained to do stay behind
big t events and assassinations. It also ends up being
high level money laundering and weapons trafficking, banking, you name it,
at the level of the Vatican Bank, all sort of
masterminded by people like William Colby, Alan Dulles, cord Meyer,
other famous socioperatives, and probably most famously James Jesus Angleton,
who was I think at the Rome, the CIA desk
in Rome before Colby was. And you know, Colby was
interesting too because he's he's a tragic figure in that
he was this key cold warrior guy, very involved in
setting up the relationship between the CIA and Pius the
Twelfth's Vatican Bank, and then he ends up after many
years of being a traditional Latin Latin mass attending Catholic
he just disappears one day on his boat. So this
is the problem that even if you serve these system
and these guys, you're still very disposable. And that's what
you have to understand, I think, is that this is
not the domain of people acting ethically and fair and morally,
and they don't care about set aside your concern for theology,
spurgism and accuracy. This is about power relations, this is
about compromise, blackmail. It's Epstein type stuff. And I think
that just to kind of put a cap on this,
the most shocking thing probably about the Gladio stuff was
when it pertained to and this came out in the
Italian press, by the way, when it when it pertained
to the clergy. It reached all the way up to
the cardinals in Italy, and many of them had been
compromised through figures connected to organized crime like Michelsondona and
Leccio Gelli, who was the partisan of many of the
P two lodges. And these these were sort of weird
Masonic lodges that weren't communistic, they were actually fascists. So
there were some of these lodges that were left over
after Mussolini because Mussolini had appeared where he persecuted and
tried to get rid of freemasonry, didn't get rid of
all of them because some of these lodges that remained were
actually pro Mussolini. So there was a handful of these
P two lodges that they're called propaganda duet is what
that stands for, and they they were utilized by the
CIA via according to Williams Henry Kissinger, So Kissinger seems
to be according to to Williams and another guy who
wrote a PhD thesis on this, Daniel Ganzer wrote on
NATO's Secret Armies. Again, these are not conspiracy books. This
is an academic text. So what people understand that what
I'm citing for you today and books like Michael Gratziano's
book Aaron into the Wilderness of Cia and Religion, these
aren't conspiracy texts. These are out of the world of academia.
So they're much more credible and sourced than you know,
David Iike's theories about what happened. Right, So anyway, long
story short, they had compromised many of the clergy in
what we're called bunga bunga parties. And if you doubt
me on this, go look up. Even back to twenty twelve,
you can still find on YouTube CNN interviews and news
reports from people like Anderson Cooper and others talking about
the Bunga Bunga parties that Silvio Berlusconi was involved in.
And these are really just o rgies that included high
level politicians. It's basically o'bsteine type stuff, right, And that
was going on, according to Williams even at the time
of the late sixties and seventies as part of Gladio
to ensure that people would be on the right side,
so to speak.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there was a lot of fallout from from the
Operation Gladio stuff. I know, the Vatican Bank was almost
to the point of bankruptcy at one point when the
P two lodge infiltrated and basically caused a collapse of
Banco and Brosiano. This was released in the Italian press
during that time, I think around the I think that
was in the seventies that that was released as well,
so it was a little later on. But what a
lot of people they hear all of this stuff and
maybe they're not able to process it. They think they
hear Freemasonry, they hear the CIA, they hear the Roman
Catholic Church collusion. It's like, oh, this is you know,
conspiracy theory stuff. But how do these things all tie in?
I mean, just look at the founding of the United
States of America. We've had free Masonic ties since the
very beginning. Our George Washington, first president, was a prolific Freemason.
In one of his letters that he wrote immediately after
he was elected, he basically wrote back to his lodge
and he said, I will always serve the interest of
the lodge by which I am a member, or in
which I'm a member of. So these ties are very
They're very deep, and what they basically have done throughout
history has played the role of power broker. And we
see this in several different theaters. We see this not
only within Gladio. We also see this around the same
time during the Cold War. They're very active. We see
them playing the role of power broker between the OSS
and the soon to be ecumenical patriarch Ethnogorus. So I
think that might be a good segue to talk about that.
I have a lot of information on that particular topic.
I could share a little bit then if you want
to dive into it. So again, not conspiracy texts. I'm
just going to share my screen just so you can
see where I'm pulling this from. So this is I'm
going to be citing from public. These are CIA documents
that were made public. This was posted on Orthodox History,
which is the gentleman Matthew name, who actually has been
on several different shows. He was on Ancient Faith back
in the day, but he published this whole thing, which
is kind of surprising because they're you know, kind of
a little more I don't know tame on some of
this stuff.
Speaker 2: But he well, I will say this. I mean, I'm
not nothing about him person or anything like that. But
when I talked about these topics ten years ago, you're
not supposed to talk about this, right, I got called
every name in the book. So I consider it a
blessing and thank god that people are, you know, discussing
this stuff now ten years later.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, it's very it's very interesting. This is certainly
a controversial topic, but I feel like it needs to
be discussed because what I've what I've realized, it's a
bit of a blessing for me because I've been reporting
on this for so long that going into the Orthodox Church,
I'm not going to be scandalized when I see these
things pop up. I'm already prepared. I'm able to see that.
So I think it's good that we don't shy away
from this stuff. We just we have to tell people
kind of what the history was. So absolutely right at
one point on that Cleve. I think you're so right
on that.
Speaker 2: And the reason that it might as well just be
addressed is because even if we were to try to
take some sort of practical, pragmatic approach that it's not
worth addressing these things. Let's just kind of show it away.
Somebody's going to bring it up, Yes, and if somebody.
We're in the age now where everything basically just makes
it on the Twitter, whether we like it or not.
So given that reality, we might as well address it.
If it's the nineteen nineties, I understand not really making
that public. It's not that relevant to the laity. They
don't need it doesn't matter. But we're not in the
nineteen nineties. We're in twenty twenty five. We're in Buck Rogers.
Everything's going to be potentially out there now, so we
might as well address it.
Speaker 1: Absolutely. Yeah, I think it's something that needs to be addressed.
But one of the beauties about the Orthodox Church is
that we have a conciler, your church governance system, so
that kind of protects us from a lot of the stuff.
Even if there were to be somebody who was maybe
influenced by state actors, so on and so forth, it's
not the end of Orthodoxy. We've seen this several times
throughout church history where the patriarchy Constantinople has been in
the past a heretic, So I mean it's not an
ender for our system.
Speaker 2: And also the state as an entity trying to control
for installed bishops, right, it's not everybody knows about KGB bishops,
KVD bishops. We've all heard this coming out of the
cold warm but people forget that there were Aryan emperors
that tried to install and control the church with Aryan
priests and bishops. There were iconoclass emperors that try to
control and steer the church. And one evidence I think
that the church is the true church is that if
those emperors couldn't turn the church into some big heresy factory,
it's the true church because they tried everything to do.
Speaker 1: So all right, I'm gonna go ahead and share my
screen and I'm just gonna dive through some of these
documents here in this article that was actually very very good.
This is on Orthodox history. This is Matthew nameI was.
I was the author of this article here. So this
is a statement from the Greek archbishop at the time
soon to be ecumenical patriarch Ethenogoris. This was the Greek
archbishop to the protos Cia. Basically the OSS, your directions
will be executed faithfully. This was a public letter that
was released. So I'm gonna go ahead and I'll just
I'll read the pertinent citation here and then I'm gonna
jump into part two of his article here. So in
an OSS, I'm gonna zoom in so you can actually
read this. In an OSS Enter Office memo dated March
twenty sixth, nineteen forty two, an intelligence agent named Julius
l Amos wrote to his fellow OSS agent named David
Burns's familiar name for some people here. The archbishop was
extremely pleased at having met and lunched with you. He
told me that the entire facilities of his organization are
at our disposal. He puts it in these words, I
have three bishops, three hundred priests in a large and
far flung organization. Everyone under my order is under yours.
You may command them for any service you require. There
will be no questions asked, and your directions will be
executed faithfully. Please tell mister Burns for me that this
is so. So the context of this letter is we
are in the heat of the basically what's ramping up
to be the Cold War. The then soon to be
Patriarch Athenagoras, he's now archbishop, is basically writing back and
forth between the oss letting him know that his people
are at his disposal whatever can serve the United States
cause at the time when they were kind of a
conflict with the Russians. And here's a picture after this
is right before he has made ecumenical patriarch, President Truman
and Archbishop Athenogoras basically meetings, you know, kissing the President's
head here. So the more I guess, so this is
a very shocking statement. He's basically just plunging his undying
support for an intelligence agency.
Speaker 2: So now can I add to that real quick? And
I want to steal your thunder because I want you
to go through this article as much as you want,
but this is very relevant to accumenism because Athenagoras is
precisely the patriarch that meets with Paul the Six to
announce that we're all one church again, there's no more
anathemas supposedly, and we can try to move towards reunion.
That's the famous, you know, meeting between the Athenagoras and
Paul the Six. But if we know the history of
Paul the Six, and I know quite a bit about
him from being a trad cat for many years, Paul
the Six was also helped to come into office by
the CIA, and that comes from many Catholic writers, not
just critics like Paul Williams, but even John Kaylor in
his book admits that the CIA was very nervous about
the overtures that John the twenty third gave to the Soviets.
John the twenty third was beginning to do these really
suspicious sort of ecumenical parties and actions and celebrations. This
has discussed in Xavier Wren's book on him. And then
I'm about a continue, i should say, And then he
had these this idea that the Soviets weren't that bad
and that perhaps we could have this open sort of
ajornamento he called it, and reprochemont Perhaps. This really worried
a lot of people in the CAA, and so they
wanted to be sure that the next person coming in
would be on board. And so they actually met with
Montini before he became pope and they basically said, Kissinger
wants you. We're going to make sure that it's you
to be clear that we don't get into anything dealing
with the Vatican Bank. Now there's a lot of drag
cats that have what's called the Serie thesis, Cardinal SyRI
and all this, but whatever is going on with the
Serie thesis and Cardinal Siri, they were concerned that when
he was elected, when he was he was considered a
potential electee, he was gonna look into the Vatican Bank.
John Paul the first this is another reason that he died,
most likely was also interested in looking at the Vatican Bank.
So this touch is directly on Gladio p two and
the CIA connection to the Vatican Vatican Bank. Because as
I mentioned with William Colby, it's Colby that initially helped
set up the first sixty five million dollar loan from
the DOSS or from the CIA should say, to the
Vatican Bank in nineteen forty seven. So there's this long
standing relationship again going back to Pis the twelfth Arab
and that can't be touched or messed with. At the
same time, the CIA believes and this is actually not
just from all the histories of accumunism that you could read,
including the David Wimhoff book. But even though I didn't
expect this when I read the Grazziano tech that when
he talks about ecumenism, he speaks of it as something
that the OSS and CA were absolutely supportive of. They
were huge supporters of ecumenism because they felt like if
they could get Paul the six and Athenagorus together, if
they could reunite the church in this sort of new
ecumenist movement, this would be a powerful force against Sovietism
and the Cold War. Yep.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, that was kind of you see that ramping
up now in the political discourse. They're trying to drive
this dialectic between Russian Orthodoxy and this kind of americanized
ecumenical patriarch at Orthodoxy, and they're trying to make this
dialectic very clear, and you see people like Rep. Joe
Wilson publicly calling for investigations of Rocorps churches, so on
and so forth. So this is still happening today, and
there's no it's not a coincidence that these meetings and
all of these things that are circulating. The statement by
the Arkans which was basically saying at the UOC church
it was like attacking the OCU parishioner, so on and
so forth. Did you see that statement the Greek Arkons. Yeah,
Arcon's accused the UOC of targeting and killing members of
the OCU. So we see multiple statements like this. There
was a statement by LP Deforos not too long ago,
very recently. I'll just go ahead and read that says,
Russia presented itself as a protector of Orthodoxy. This was
after the visit between Leo and Bartholomew. This is a
statement by Lpdiforos. He's talking about the collapse of Syria
during the revolution, recent revolution. Says one of the best
things that happened was it was released from the Russian tutelage.
He's trying to draw this dialectic here, Russia presented itself
as a protector of Orthodoxy, but in reality it used
Orthodox ideology, just as communist ideology once was, as an
ideological cloak for national and global ambitions. Our faith becomes
a tool of state interest. This is dangerous for both
the church and its people. So he's not just attacking
Russia geopolitically, he's actually attacking the Russian Orthodox as well
in that statement, saying that they're basically a tool of
the state, which was the same thing that we saw Rep.
Joe Wilson saying. So. I don't know about you, but
my spider sense goes off when I start to see
statements by hierarchs and statements of politicians match the same
exact tune within a week of these ecumenical meetings. So
I don't think it's any coincidence.
Speaker 2: No, And in fact, we know that this link is
absolutely verified. In fact, there's many many articles going back
many years over at Orthochristian dot com that detailed the
intimate connection between former CIA heads John McCain State Department,
even publicly lauding and praising their actions and operations on
Twitter in Ukraine in setting up the Schismatic Church using
a formerly defract guy named Dumenko, formerly of the KGB,
who the Patriarch of Constant and Noble previously said was
defrauct So suddenly now it's he's all good, everything's cool,
And we've got to remember that. You know, the EP
reversed its own stance on the schism in Ukraine, presumably
because of US and State Department pressure. Mike Pompeo, who
was the CIA director at the time, even publicly talked
about how happy he was that he had helped Zelenski
create this a schism in the Orthodox Church. So that's
all public record, and you can just find tons of
archived articles at Ortho Christian YEP.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, and when the US aid spending became public, they
realized that a lot of this was actually going towards
funding disunity within that within that UOCO CU. Absolutely, So
this point, this is basically intelligence agencies finally funneling money
to drive division within this region, and it's to disrupt
basically from their standpoint, Russia's effort. But also what it
does is it drives disunity within the church itself.
Speaker 2: Yes, they did the same thing by the way in Macedonia,
exact same move with Orthodoxy there. They've tried it in
places like Georgia as well, So it's the same model.
So this is not some unique thing they'll do. They'll
run the same sort of script in a lot of
those you know, Baltic Era area countries.
Speaker 1: M Yeah, we see it time and time again. All right,
let me dive into this and then I'll give you
the floor after I go through this article here, because
I think this will this will be interesting. This is
probably something that people don't know very much about. So
this was the deposition of Maximos the fifth and this
is according to CIA records that were made public. So
this is Maximos the fifth being deposed and then the
propping up of Archbishop Ethnogorus, who then becomes the ecumenical
Patriarch Ethnogoris, who for those of you that are not familiar,
he's he was a The patriarch Athenagoras was a level.
He was a thirty three degree Freemason. This is actually
public record. If you were to look at the Greek
Freemason Free Masonic Lodge, they actually have them listed on
their website as a thirty third degree Mason. So he
did have free Masonic ties there, so that probably played
that part is not in this article but that probably
played a link as far as how they made contact
to him to begin with, because they typically do play
that role as a kind of power brokers.
Speaker 2: There. There's also prior to I forget the guy's name,
but the guy prior to Athenagoras, there's also a declassified
cable with him as well talking to the OSS. Anyway, sorry,
go ahead, yep, no worries.
Speaker 1: All right, So I'm going to dive into this. So
basically the context of this, so we remember in the
previous article we were looking the OSS had already made
contact with the then Archbishop of Agorus. He pledged the
service of all of his bishops and his priests to
the OSS during the Cold War.
Speaker 2: So sorry, I'm sorry. You had the picture up of
are you reading the one that has Maximus the Fifth
at the top? Yes, okay, that's the other one. I'm sorry,
that's what I was talking about. I have to look
at two different screens. So Maximus the Fifth is the
other one that I was talking about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, Yeah, that's that's actually going to be discussed
a little bit in this in this y No, no,
no worries at all. I appreciate you coming on and
discussing this. This is a good discussion. Not a lot
of people know this information. So basically, the the backdrop
to this is the OSS has already made contact with Athenagoras.
He's pledged his support to the American Intelligence Agency. The OSS,
for those of you that don't know, is a precursor
to the CIA. So Athenagorus has already pledged his support
his bishops and his priests. So now we're going to
fast forward a couple of years.
Speaker 2: Oh, this is the guy who succeeded him, not his predecessor.
I'm sorry, yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Athenagorus succeeded Maximos.
Speaker 2: Oh wait, no, I was right, Okay, were said, I'm
just getting confused.
Speaker 1: No worries, all right, So I'm gonna go ahead and
I'll dive through this. So a source in close contact
with the patriarch reports that Maximos Maximos, who was currently
the ecumenical patriarch at the time this is forty six
in the previous article, we were around nineteen forty two,
I believe. So Maximos is suffering from an acute nervous
attack and shows grave symptoms of insanity. So he had
some severe mental health issues, and the situation was relatively unstable.
So basically what the CIA was thinking was they were
going to kind of capitalize on the situation and put
their own man in the position, because they'd already made
inroads with Athenogoras. So the game plan was basically to
depose Maximos and to put in Athanagorus. Let's let's read
through some of these kind of back and forths here.
January sixteenth, the CIA reported serious thought is being given
to the deposition of the patriarch, but his followers are
reluctant to take such a step until they are satisfied
by the doctors that maximus condition is incurable. Meanwhile, an
unrelated scandal emerged. It seemed that in nineteen forty four,
Greek attorneys engaged by the patriarch it had stolen money
that a wealthy benefactor had bequeathed to the patriarch and
his will, and the patriarch at in as well. Although
the late Patriarch Benjamin led the Ecumenical patriarch A in
nineteen forty everyone knew then that Metropolitan Maximos was the
real power behind the throne. The CIA observed as Patriarch
Maximos was in complete charge of the patriarch at nineteen
forty when the late Patriarch Benjamin was ill. Certain elements
in the final wish Maximos to assume some of the
responsibility for the scandal. So the scandal is resurfacing, it's
kind of come to the surface. The CIA is writing
back and forth that serious thought is being taken to
his deposition, and they're basically going to be putting in
their own person.
Speaker 2: And note too that just as with what I was
claiming about the papacy, if they're concerned about a patriarch,
they're definitely going to be concerned about a pope too.
So it's not going to be outlandish to think that
the CIA is very concerned about whether Paul the six
gets elected or not.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Yep, They're concerned on both fronts, and ultimately, like
you said, the goal would be to have these two
fronts rejoin. It's no coincidence that Thinagoras being propped up
basically by the predecessors of the CIA, the OSS and
American geopolitical power being put into this position. Is the
first ecumenical patriarch in five hundred years to meet with
the pope and have unity talks the first ecumenical patriarch
to meet with the pope in five hundred years. You
think that's a coincidence. So the first one that's prompt
up by American geopolitical power is the first one that's
pushing for humanism. And this is actually talked about by
Saint Paiisios as well. He has several statements he writes
about Patriarch Athenagoras during this time as well, which I'll
get into maybe a little later if we have time.
I posted it on my ex page a little while back,
so you can go and read that citation if you
want so. Any we'll continue on a February fourteenth CIA report.
The Turkish papers have published a statement to the effect
that the Soviet Council General had been had placed the
Russian Summer Embassy at the disposal of the patriarch. If
and our officials insist, however, there is no foundation to
this report and are of the opinion. Two papers in
question obviously rich to create difficulties for the Patriarch by
giving the impression of close collaboration with the Soviets. So
you have these two kind of factions fighting for control
during this time. This is the narrative that they're pushing.
So they're pushing the necessity of their intervention into the
ecumenical patriarch. They're saying, if we don't put our guy
in here, the Soviets are going to put their guy
in here. That's kind of the that's the false crisis
that they're setting up. A few days prior to that
CIA report, the one that we were just talking about,
where they manufactured the narrative of the Soviets putting their
person into this position, Archbishop Athenagoras was in Washington awarding
President Truman with a piece of the True Cross. This
was when the famous photo was taken of Athenagoras kissing
Truman on the head. So just a few days prior
to that CIA report, you get this famous picture here.
This is Athenagoras here. All right, I'm gonna skip down
a little bit and we'll discuss the actual deposition and
when athentic Gorse is put into power. May twenty first,
the CIA reported that Maximos was traveling to Athens to
consult with specialists. If he is found to be incurable,
it is believed that his resignation as patriarch will be accepted,
but a bit later July third, the CIA seems to
have corrected itself, saying the real reason for maximos visit
degrees was not the reported health issues, but for consultation
concerning three major issues. Whether Maximos should resign in favor
of a stronger personality, If he should resign, what candidate
would be favorable to Athens? And how can the final
deal with the increasing prestige of Patriarch Alexei of Moscow.
So you have these two kind of you have this
geopolitical issue brewing between not only geopolitical powers, but within
the two patriarchs. CIA explained why the patriarch would need
to go to Athens to discuss these matters. The f
is the Final in Istanbul is dominated financially by the
Greek government. All right, so we skip down a little bit.
I'm going to get to the statements in which he
is he is deposed, well on one moment, mm hmm. Anyway,
So long story short, the CIA helps in the deposition
of Maximos and places a Thinagoras on the Ecumenical patriarch throne.
So a new day of dawn for the Ecumenical Patriarch
and for world Orthodoxy, with the Thinogoras on the throne,
the US finally had a reliable, stable leader that could
help in the fight against communism. So again you have
this Cold war kind of rhetoric here. This is all
about the fight against communism. That's why this is necessary.
That's why these inroads were necessary. The same exact rhetoric
that you see with the links between the USS and
the Roman Catholic Church during the time of Operation Gladio.
This is all this is a necessary evil. We have
to ally with these people because it's all about the
fight against communism. Amongst all sorts of evidence for this,
see the nineteen fifty one CAA report. Anyway, I'm going
to link this document in the link to this video,
but this is pertinent information. So we have the patriarch
Athenagoras at the time, who basically when he was an archbishop,
pledged his full support to the OSS. I mean, it
doesn't get much more clear than that, I have X
amount of bishops, I have X amount of priests. They
are all under your command. We won't ask any questions.
That's basically what he says to them.
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. And to tie this in also to the
Roman Catholic world, you added. Back in the nineteen fifties,
under the direction of a guy named Ceed Jackson, who
worked in a psychological warfare for the CIA also worked
in Hollywood, by the way, he came up with this
idea called the doctrinal Warfare program. And you can actually
look up these documents. One is called the Psychology Strategy
Board Directive D thirty three or PSB D thirty three.
This is a declassified effort to counter communist ideology through propaganda,
cultural and doctrinal influence, targeting institutions like the Roman Catholic Church.
In two thousand and two, there were FOYA documents that
got some of these, but it was fully declassified. In
twenty thirteen, full on CD Jackson Edward P. Lilly Doctrinal
Warfare Program was declassified, which basically proves all of this.
So it's not a conspiracy theory. You have to understand
that what we're talking about here are real declassified cables, discussions, communicates,
and documents that discuss how to turn these religious institutions
into forms of American soft power. Now you might say, well,
but it's justified because we got to fight the atheistic Soviets. Well,
the problem is when you make the sort of an alliance.
When you say, as the patriarch did here, all of
my priests and my whole jurisdiction is at your disposal,
You're opening it up to a lot of corruption. That's
the problem here because now you're basically saying we have
a new master. It's basically choosing two masters, right, or
choosing between two different thieves, as one article put it.
So you have KGB and you got the CIA. And
even though yeah, it might be the case that a
lot of people were aided by British intelligence in the
CIA when they fled Bolsheviks, when they fled the KVD,
when they fled the Soviets, when they fled Cholchesku in Romania.
I know, you know Orthodox priests that were under Romanian persecution,
for example, who've come to the West, and they don't
all immediately just love and worship the CIA. They point
out that now you're under the same thing that we
were under. You're going into, you know, the sort of
communist socialist persecution in America that we went through where
we fled. So they're recognizing the same things. And these
agencies and these institutions are not your friend. They're they're
really engines of power. They're not necessarily they're only as
good as the people that are in those institutions. And
if the institutions are staffed with woke, purple haired people,
as the CIA has been for for a long time,
it's not gonna it's not going to be a good
thing for the church.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think I think a lot of that honestly
has to do And I know our opinions might disagree
on you might have just agree with my opinion on
this particular take, but I think a lot of that
wokeness probably comes from the early Freemasonic ties that basically
influenced the United States Founding. I mean, we have major
figures within the Founding of the United States. George Washington
himself was loyal to his lodge, by which he was
a member. We have several of the founding found fathers that
were Freemasons. They were very prevalent within the Founding of
the United States. Also, George Washington was a member of
the Episcopal Church, and there are several free Masonic ties
to that particular organization. And we already know that the
Freemasons had multiple different ties to intelligence agencies such as
the USS which is the precursor to the CIA later
on in its development, they played the role of powerbroker.
They did this also for British intelligence, so it was
a it was kind of it's kind of like a
spider organization. They don't have as much power as they did,
but you could call it by another name. I'm sure
probably read the Ault of Indida I have.
Speaker 2: Let me let me be clear, I don't at all
disagree with you what Maybe some people misunderstood what I
said on a live stream a while back. Somebody asked
about whether I think Freemasons are running everything. What I
said was that amongst younger people, I don't think there's
much of a concern for Freemasonry. So like people that
are in seminary nowadays, I doubt many of them, the
younger up and coming clergy are members of the lodge.
I'm sure there's some, but I think that if you
get into, like you know, the the Boomers, I'm sure
there's plenty of Boomer clergy in the Orthodox Church, bishops
that are that are members of the lodge. Absolutely. In fact,
I know in Greece it's very widespread. Many Greek prelates
are are members of the Lodge, and I'm sure in
Russia there's there's prelates that are members of the lodge
as well, So I don't at all discount that. Ultimately,
I just meant that amongst the like, the younger you go,
I think there's less and less interest in Freemasonry, but
not that. Freemasonry has always had a very close relationship
to the ecumenist movement. They've always had they're sort of
the proto Ecumenists. So now I totally think you're on board,
moving in the right direction to say that, yeah, Masonry
plays a big role in ecumenism.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely, And I was going to say you could
probably even if you were to say that the organization
of the Freemasons doesn't have as much power, you could
just call them by another name. You can call them
by the ecumenical movement. I mean, it's the same mindset,
it's the same goals, it's the same end goal. And
the Alt of Indida it basically laid out the game
plan for the subversion of the Roman Catholic Church. For
those of you that are not aware of the Alt
of Indida is the permanent instructor of the Alt of Indida.
This is a free Masonic playbook basically for their subversion
of the Roman Catholic Church, not to put a Freemason
on the throne of Peter, but to basically instill Enlightenment
ideas and liberal axioms into the Roman Catholic Church so
that eventually will be elected a pope that is amenable
to these Enlightenment ideas and liberal axioms. So within the
Alt of Indida, the strategy that was advanced is basically
the dissemination of liberal ideas and actioms throughout society, within
the institutions of the Catholic Church, so that the laity
and prelates would over the years be imbued with progressive
principles and basically it would just be spread across the board.
That's kind of the goal. And the motto of the
Alt of Indida was basically, the soldier dies, the war
goes on. So it's not just a one time play.
This is something that they're in it for the long
They're in it for the long haul. I mean, ultimately
it seems like it seems like it's had some effect.
The reason I bring it up at all, so we
look at the free Masonic ties of Athenagoras, right, he
was a member of the lodge, the Greek Lodge. He
was a thirty third degree Freemason. And we look at
the current archbishop of the Greek Orthodox Archdiocese who wrote
be forward to a book on geopolitics that was written
by Master Mason Nicholas Laus Laus.
Speaker 2: Yes, I used to interact and debate with Laos on Facebook,
and uh, funny you said that I was going to
bring out Laos as an example of a modern Greek
Orthodox rabbit Mason as you went right where I was
going to go.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we've got the mind meld going on right now.
Speaker 2: Man. By the way, the guy the the also, the
guy that was involved in the Greek church calendar issue
was a Mason too, like one hundred years or over
one hundred years ago. His name is Metac Soksis. Yeah,
there's another one of these guys going back even further
that was a Mason too. Do you know what I'm
talking about? No, So when that this was so, when
the when you had the old calendar schism in Greece,
one of the reasons that the schism happened was because
the patriarch was a Freemason. If I recall, I'm not
saying that that makes schism good. I'm just saying like,
because it's a really complicated issue I'm making. Look, I'm
looking this up, but anyway, go ahead.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we literally have an icon worth and of course
is depicted as outside of the church yep. And they
have the demon of Freemasonry behind him in that arc
icon yep. I've seen that as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But Archbishop Elpeter Foress wrote the introduction to the Greek
version of the book by Master Mason Nicholas Laus titled
new Opolitic. So if you want to check out this
book and you're watching this live stream, the book is
titled Neuopolitic. This is what lpter Foros wrote and this basically,
basically this book is about free Masonics version of political systems.
Speaker 2: By the way, Matthew and me at Orthodox History, I
just realized he has an article on this. It's it's
called uh a brief life of Malitios Semataksakis, and he
is the e humanist free Masonic patriarch in the nineteen
twenties yep.
Speaker 1: So it's that definitely played a role, I think in
some of these ties and changes. So he wrote the
LPD Forrest wrote the foreword to the book Neopolitic. This
is basically what had have wrote it. He wrote, with
great joy and deep satisfaction, I read the work of
the exceptional intellectual Nicholas Laus in this area of philosophy,
theology and politics. It is a bright work which is
filled with an academic strictness and also great boldness. With
all my soul, I congratulate Nicholas Laus for his sharpness
during the writing of this work, which fills a great
absence in this area of philosophy, theology and political science.
So he wrote, he writes the foreword and endorses this
book on Freemasonic political subversion. Just talking about the alt
of Indida and what were the goals of that dissemination
of Enlightenment ideas and liberal axioms amongst these kind of
theological frameworks. So let's fast forward to Francis some of
the statements that were made by him. All religions are
a path to heaven, that kind of thing. You actually
see Alp Deporos say just about the same statement, not
that long after Francis said it. So where do you
think these ties come from? That's just kind of where
my mind goes. It seems like they did their task
in these two particular areas.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember when I was a trad cat back
in the two thousands, when I first read the Alta Indida,
was kind of blown away, and it prompted me to
then go and read the at that time Vatican's response,
because you had several popes going all the way back
to the seventeen hundreds during the time of the French
Revolution that had actually written in cyclicals against Freemasonry, warning
that they had plot to destroy Christian civilization. I think
one of the clements was one of the first in
the seventeen hundreds, all the way up to Lee of
the Thirteen's famous and cyclical Humani Generis, which is a
really expansive rejection of all the free Masonic principles which
he calls in that work organized Naturalism. So same strategy here,
and it's not accidental that the Free Masonic patriarchs are
saying the same thing as the post dat it into
popes are saying absolutely.
Speaker 1: All right, let me take a moment. I'm going to
get to some super chats and then we can continue
with this discussion here. This is a great discussion. Temple
are good to see man great collab and next we
need ben on Alex Jones. That'd be awesome. I don't
think that would ever happen, but that would be cool. James,
five dollars, Thank you so much. Jay. Have you noticed
the trend of Presbyterian and CREC group sending missionaries to
Orthodox countries. Do you think it's organic or influenced?
Speaker 2: You know, I have a lot of questions about Doug Wilson.
I mean, I've interacted with that group going all the
way back to the early two thousands when I first
left Reformed Theology for at that time Catholicism, and I
remember having some email dialogue things trying to set up
a debate with either Douglas Jones, who was at that
time Doug Wilson's right hand man, or Doug Wilson. I
don't think Doug Wilson ever replied, but I had a
significant back and forth with Doug Jones. I don't know
whatever happened to that dude, if he's still around, or
if he went to something else. But I think what's
interesting is that many, many, many CREC people have become
Orthodox over the last two decades, and that we like
to see and I don't know if you guys, I'll
just say this, there might be a large platform Doug
Wilson debate in the near future. We'll see come up
with me. But I would not be surprised if there's
not something going on there. I know that people sort
of documented some jd Vance Doug Wilson connections. I've not
looked a whole lot into that, so I don't know
exactly how deep that goes. But I do think that
Doug Wilson's Christian nationalism, I mean there's some some some
good ideas there. I just don't think it's really gonna
come to much fruition given how divided, you know, Protestantism
and Evangelicalism is. And I did not know that they
were sending out missionaries into Orthodox countries. But that's it's unfortunate. Yeah,
that is unfortunate.
Speaker 1: One thing that I can bring up about the Presbyterian
Church is this is something very interesting. When I was
doing a deep dive in Freemasonry and anti Freemasonic polemics
and free Masonic history of political subversion, there was a
text I had Actually I did a call in back
when I was still a Protestant into your show, and
we were talking about freemasonry a little bit. I don't
know if you remember that discussion at all, but I
brought up a text that was by a say Irish
Roman Catholic priest, forget his name, but it was basically
it's called Freemasonry and the anti Christian movement. And there
was a snippet of that that I thought was very interesting.
It was a dialogue between that priest and a master Mason.
They were writing letters back and forth and he's making
the master Mason is making the case that they're not
like the Southern European Masons, which were engaged in political
subversion and all this were.
Speaker 2: The good guys basically.
Speaker 1: But his case was crazy to me because this was
his case. He said. This was a snippet of it.
I save this because I thought it was wild. We're accused,
this is the master Mason writing back to the priest.
We're accused of being irreligious and even worse, devil worshippers
and synagogues of Satan. Now in Ireland, most of the
bishops and higher dignitaries of the Church of Ireland, as
well as a large percent percentage of the minor clergy
and the heads of the Presbyterian Church belonged to order. Ye,
so they're all Freemasons basically.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I think Freemasonry originally historically found a
lot more of its adherents amongst Protestants, particularly Protestant nobility, kings,
et cetera. You know, after the fifteen hundreds, as lodges
start spreading throughout Europe, speculative lodges. I mean, even prior
to the establishment of the Grand Lodge in London in
the seventeen hundreds, there was already a growing interest amongst
nobility and statesman to get involved in specultive Freemason, primarily
amongst the Protestants. It then kind of spread to particularly
out of London when they established a Grand Lodge. It became,
as other historians have noted, like Jessica Harland Jacobs, kind
of the intelligence network of the British Empire. That's why
it's so integral I think for them. But then as
time goes by, I think maybe you can combinant with
the rise and spread of Protestant evangelical ideology, it just
became easier and easier and easier for people in the
Orthodox and the Roman Calic world to become Freemasons because
they just assumed and operated on all those same Enlightenment
presubpositions that the that the Masons had always supported.
Speaker 1: You actually you see that that's a that's a great
point about it being very prevalent within Protestant circles, because
it's way, way, way more prevalent within each of the
main lines. I did a video on this a long
time ago that was basically tracking the progression of all
of the mainline denominations within Protestantism that have gone extremely
liberal and their ties to Freemasonry within their hierarchy. So
you see the Episcopal Church the way that they've gone,
I mean multiple ties to free Masonic organizations. There's even
been archbishop and Archbishop of Canterbury has been a Master
Mason in the past. We already talked about George Washington
being a Mason. He was a member of the Episcopal Church.
All of the donations towards the Washington National Cathedral, which
is an Episcopal cathedral, we're funded by Freemasons. I mean,
it's it's just it's across the board. You see this
within the Presbyterian Church. Look at where look at where
they're at today with the pc USA, so really redeem Zoomer.
If you want to do some kind of reconquista, you
got to kick all the Freemasons out first.
Speaker 2: Exactly. That's what I think he doesn't understand, Like you'd
have to get rid of a lot bigger institutions than
just the Libs. You're also dealing with NGO's think tanks, foundations.
Speaker 1: Et cetera.
Speaker 2: And just to give a shout out to our friend
Rachel Wilson, she wrote a really good article to see
this point, which also applies to free from Masonic infiltration
and subversion. She wrote an article on her subsect called
how big foundation money is subverting Traditional Christianity, and she
goes through a lot of NGO's, a lot of thing tanks,
a lot of big Rockefeller Foundation type things, Ford Foundation,
Eli Lilly, all these kinds of things will put tons
and tons of money into churches and say things like, well,
look we'll build you a seminary building, but you're going
to install the people that we want to teach your seminary.
This goes all the way back to the Rockfellers biography.
There's whole there's a great chapter in their book about
how they did this. In an admission chapter, and that's
how they were very successful in subverting a lot of
the mainline Protestant nominations. And so it's the same with
It's the same principle with masonry as well, is that
you can kind of in a in a back doorway,
so to speak, subvert through both money and the sort
of secret society network that we're talking about.
Speaker 1: Absolutely all right, I'm gonna I'm gonna get through some
of these super chats here. If y'all want to send
in superchats, I really appreciate it. Helps out the channel
a lot. The sky high I like seals high. J
Dyer high cleave to antiquity. Thanks, good to see you. Jay.
Any hair tips asking for a friend.
Speaker 2: Haretics or hair tip?
Speaker 1: Hair tips tips on how to do his hair good?
Speaker 2: I guess hair a tic? This is my hair a tic.
There you go. I'm assuming that's a a joke because
all I do is just wake up and just run
my hair my hand through and that's it. So I
don't have any I'm a heteroflectual man. I don't give
hair tips.
Speaker 1: There you go, Penny ten dollars here for this type
of content and discussion. Thank you both for the reading
y'all do and share with us and sharing these sources
with us. Absolutely, this is a good discussion. Yeah, I
think I think this needs to be talked about more
because I didn't see anybody bringing up these points when
any of these talks were happening. It's like nobody was.
They were just kind of like, oh, well, I don't
think they're focusing on the theology aspect, but that really
doesn't have much to do with these unification talks, to
be honest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and people, I think, you know, geopolitics is a big,
kind of hefty subject, so it's kind of difficult to
to hit all the bases. And you know, it took me,
and I'm not saying I'm even an expert on all this,
but it took me many, many years of studying. Really
what got me into this was a lot of the
Vatican two history. When I was a track cat, I
was really really really interested in all the players, all
the influences at Vatican two. I even read like, not
just trad cat critiques of Vatican two, I read liberal
appraisals of Vatican two. For example, there's a journalist that
wrote a famous book, Paul Blanchard, wrote a book about
Vatican Two, and he was a sort of super progressive
lib who is like, this is the greatest thing ever
we have actually finally won, you know, in taking over
the Church and even going into shall we say, certain
Middle Eastern countries and their influence Ontate and Vatican Two. So,
you know, it is a subject that I'm really happy
to see people kind of waking up to and getting
some sense of, because if you just think about it theologically,
which I think that's the most important aspect of it,
but it's very limiting because that's not the only concern,
you know, when we get into these you know, big
power block issues and who's interested in Vatican Two. And
I mean it's kind of obvious why Nosra Tate has
the language that has when you have that homosexual priest
who was a so called Jewish convert basically writing the document.
I mean that should tell you everything right there. But
I did a talk a couple months ago called how
the Papacy became a Captured Institution, And I did a
whole four hour talk kind of going through a lot
of not the stuff that we're talking about today. It
wasn't mainly focused on the EP but focused mainly on
like the papacy itself. That if you're interested, people can
look at that talk on my wall. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah. You've done a lot of really good talks
on this particular issue I've seen over the years. All right,
let's check this out. Wait, five dollars for your goal.
Appreciate you man, thank you X type game he became
a member or gifted a membership, Thank you so much,
iron giant man double seven, five dollars. You see the muzzle.
Mayor of London had to sing Christ is Born, the
Newborn King during Christmas Light Festival. He looked disgusted. Yeah,
I saw that he's fidgeting. He was like, he was like, oh,
I got to sing this next. He's like looking around,
forking out. That was funny. Good stuff, guys. This is
the tip of the spear and modern discourse. More like this.
Please absolutely yeah. Jay can come on the show whenever
he wants. These are good, good talks. Ah, let's see
you got a nice crowder almost six hundred.
Speaker 2: I think looks like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, people, I think people are really interested in this
particular discussion. I think people aren't really aren't talking about
this side of this thing. Well, we were warning for many,
many years.
Speaker 2: In fact, if I recall, there's a podcast about seven
years ago on my channel about the coming push for
this union with the ep in Rome. No, there's two. Actually,
there's one called the Spooky Subversion of Orthodoxy talking about
spooks and spies, and there's one about the ep and
rem more theologically focused. That was about seven or eight years ago.
Speaker 1: Interesting, we're not really doing theological questions today, but I
appreciate your super chat, my friend, God bless you come
back for one of the Q and A streams and
we do more theological stuff and I'll, you know, have
priests on that they can answer your theology questions. Trey
ten dollars, being new to Orthodoxy, observing the most basic
differences between Orthodoxy and quote unquote Catholicism reveals the incompatibility
of the two. What could be the motive of the
Pope's ecumenical outreach. That's a good question, because it's kind
of what we're discussing today.
Speaker 2: Well, on a very basic level, I mean, the papacy
is all about and it has always been about numbers.
So just think about the papacy as the world's oldest megachurch,
and I think you can go back to, you know,
the eleventh century. The best book on this by far
is the Papadoccus Mayandorf book on the Papacy from eleven
hundred to fourteen fifty three and or for the eleventh
century to fourteen fifty three, because they really go into
the geopolitical turn. Certainly the papacy had geopolitical interest prior
to that, but with the Gregorian reforms there's a very
key switch, and this is admitted by a Catholic historians.
You can read East Congar, you can read Fence, this
Princes Devornik, both of whom you know are Roman Catholic,
writing about this key shift period in the eleventh century
when the papacy really takes on a world power approach.
That's when we get the Tatas Pape. A couple of
centuries later, we get when I'm signing to them saying
that you have to believe in the temporo supremacy to
be saved. So I think those are that's a key
time to look at the eleventh century, and that's even
when you had German kings, Frankish kings. German kings were
actually we're appointing the pope for almost one hundred years,
So so much for Cesero papism or saying that the
East is Cesero Papists or whatever. I mean, that's papal
o crism right there. So that's I think where you
can go back to to see the real roots of this.
I think Florence is another example. If you read the
Ostromov book, you get the picture of how the Medici's
were very interested in a geopolitical union, supposedly to fight
the Turks, this kind of stuff. But all the false
union councils they always have a kind of a geopolitical
motive as well. It's not just about the theology. But
if you're the papacy. You know, we made this argument
when Sneck was on back when for Tellytuti came out,
Why wouldn't you want to be the pope of all
the world religions, Peter, If not just the keyholder for
the Roman See and Communion, why not be the keyholder
and the head of all the religions in concentric circles.
That's kind of the model you get if you read
for Teletutius. The Pope's kind of here in the center,
this is Rome outside. That's the Orthodox, than the Anglicans,
then the Protestants, the phenomenom nationalists, and then even the Muslims.
So just pure power, I think can tell you right
there why the Pope would want mega numbers and to
be the head of a giant syncretist religion. Yeah.
Speaker 1: One thing that I would add on too that because
I think it's very true when I was talking about
I mentioned earlier, I said theology isn't the main kind
of the main focus. I really am talking about from
the Roman Catholic perspective, because look at any Uniate group
that has not just Eastern or like not just Eastern
Uniate groups. We can talk about Assyrian Uniate groups. We
could talk about the Miro Salabar or zero Malabar Uniates,
who then Aerate Nestorius.
Speaker 2: Yeah, theology, it's just about geopolitical numbers in Union, correct. Yeah,
I believe what you want, just submit to ron. That's
always been the Uniate model that Pope will basically say.
In fact, you can go back to some of the
Union offers where he would say stuff like I'll build
you schools, uh, and you can believe whatever you want.
Just come into commune with me.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely, and we see the We see the framework
for this being set. Now you think that the sinidelity
push is a just a kind of coincident. So within
the Roman Catholic system, there's a reason they're trying to
move to this more sonodal model. It's to make it
more amenable to a potential Orthodox union in the future.
That's the entire purpose. You think it's just them becoming
a liberal or something. That's not the case. So yeah,
we see this with several other unia groups. The Eastern
Catholics are able to venerate Palamas, so they don't see
the philioqua. Now we have Leo saying he's not going
to be saying the philioqua anymore. These are major moves
in that direction. So the framework isn't just being placed
on the Orthodox side with the EP and LP Deforo's
taking control over churches financially so that they can't put
up any kind of opposition if there were to be
some kind of false union. We see this also in
the Roman Catholic side as well.
Speaker 2: And that's exactly why anybody from our sphere priest, bishop, clergy, laity,
apologist who is not an ecumenist is thus a problem
person in the Orthodox world.
Speaker 1: I'm saying, yep, absolutely yep, and they'll they'll they'll push
back for sure. Let's see, Andrew five dollars, what is
the largest thing that is non essential to orthodoxy quote
unquote compromise that Jay would be okay with it if
the two were to unite.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's because you read it again?
What shout out to me again?
Speaker 1: He's he's basically, it's kind of it's kind of seems
like a question where he's like, what orthodox doctrine would
you be willing to throw into the trash for unity?
Speaker 2: I mean, I think you could probably come up with
some things that are audiofera or uh, you know, not dogmatic.
I have to think about it for a minute. I mean,
I really just tend to focus on, you know, the
thirty or so things. I would focus on the thirty
yel thirty ish things that are kind of uh, you know,
points of non compromise, and then anything outside of those things.
I still cannot find my tweet from several years ago
where I have found a list of these from Metropolitan
Seraphim a Prius. But I don't I mean, I don't
have to think about that. I don't know that's a tough.
Speaker 1: One, James. Five dollars. Jay, When when can we expect
to collab with Father Stephen Young? He defended you on
this very show not too long ago. Thank you for
your work, man. Yeah he did when he was on
the show.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I'm going to always be open to that.
I think I even maybe mentioned that back when Orthodox
Shahda had Father Stephen Young on when when they were
reading his Religion of Apostles book. I just haven't got
to the book yet, is really the only reason I
haven't reached out, Because if I'm going to have somebody on,
I don't want to be like, oh, yeah, I didn't
read your book, but you want to come on, So
maybe I need to get through the text first before
before I set up. But i'd absolutely absolutely be able to,
would be willing to.
Speaker 1: He challenge you to a debate on Twin Peaks, Man.
Speaker 2: That could be fun. It could be fun. Yeah I'm
running because I'm scared.
Speaker 1: Yeah, runn because you're scared of the Twin Peaks debate.
Speaker 2: It's over. I don't I didn't even I heard him
say that, but I didn't really get the like does
he just doesn't like it? Or what was the I
think that's what the joke was. Okay, that could be funny.
Speaker 1: Yeah you're saying that was the only that was the
only disagreement you guys have was twin peaks. Let's see
a member member chatted in thanks for being a member.
York writers claim conservatives based on the schism from extreme
Italian right, which is the difference between.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but thanks for He's talking about the
York right masonry masons. I think, oh yes, yeah, yeah.
And that was one of the guys that argued with
me one time. This is years ago. He was actually
a c r C guy and he was a York
right I'm not saying everybody in the series season, but
say this guy was. And he was like, oh, Jay,
you gotta you gotta let me explain to you that,
you know, York right masonry is the real Christian masonry
and all this stuff. I was just say whatever, due,
I never I didn't find it convincing.
Speaker 1: Two dollars super chat for Michael, Thank you, Thank you, Harris.
Five dollars super chat. I would like to see n
KdV and KGB archives published about the Russian Church, like
the Appointed patriarchs since nineteen forty three from Stalin et cetera.
Speaker 2: That would be really interesting. I mean, you should reach
out to Mark Hackard because he would know all about that.
He's translated a lot of those KGB archives and stuff
into English.
Speaker 1: Vale Orthodox ten dollars. Good to see you, man, Good
chat gents for Turkey hair transplants. Talk about for me
and do an irl stream with Irhan while they're oh,
and me and David Arhan will probably do extream when
I get back from my cruise next week, so we'll
probably be hanging out there. How much timed you you going?
Speaker 2: You said you're going with Ted Cruz ted Cruise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm gonna go hang out with Ted Cruz next week.
We're gonna go. We're gonna strike up a deal. I
gotta go through a Freemasonic ritual for you.
Speaker 2: Gotta go join the the Southern Confederate Scottish Lodge of
the Sons of Israel. I just made up. I just
made up a lodge, but it sounds real. That's true.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you'll see me. You'll see me in some Wikipedia
article later on. But how how long do you have? Ja?
Do you have more than you want to? Add to
this discussion or whatever you want to do.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can, I can. You're gonna have to
make a decision because I'll talk forever about Gladio and
I mean, it's it's entirely up to you. Man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's keep going. This is good stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I want to throw this in here. Here's here's
a pretty wild one in Michael Gratziano's academic text, just
to give you an idea of how kind of crazy
the O, S, S and C. I have been when
it comes to religion. They came up with this idea
for an ecumenist project. They didn't actually end up doing it,
but I thought this was funny. I never day might
talk about this, but I'll just read a little bit
of it. Retired intelligence officers received strange mail at times.
In nineteen seventy six, a Catholic priest named Father John
Ireland Gallery wrote to CIA operative Ed Lansdale with a
plan for world peace. The great religious traditions of the
West were squabbling too much. Father Gallery thought that Turkish
Muslims and Greek Christians were always at each other's throats
over Cyprus, and the Soviets were waiting to pounce. Father
Gallery then suggested a creative solution, get NATO to rebuild
the ancient city of Ephesus along the Turkish coast, using
the Vaticans archives to figure out what ancient buildings existed
in Ephesus. Father Gallery thought that a new holy city
second to Jerusalem could be rebuilt to heal the thousand
year schism with the Orthodox. They could also bring Greece
and Turkey into union against the Soviets, the real enemy.
This NATO peace project might seem to be an odd suggestion,
but it had a lot going for it. Rebuilding emphasis
would supply the free world with a religious center of gravity,
a place that major Western religions could then call home.
This was an existentially important topic because it was the
West religious backbone that enabled it to challenge Communism's godless aggression.
As an added bonus, NATO would strengthen its ties with
Israel and rebuild ancient synagogues in Ephesus. Gallery wanted ed
Lansdale to know that the American taxpayer should not fear,
even though they would pay for it. Secretary of Defense
Donald Rumsfeld offered to set up a meeting with President
Gerald Ford if they had gone through with this plan,
but they didn't. So there's an example of what we've
been talking about. And I don't know this, but the
emphasis project, Well, that sounds curiously like Francis's Abu Dhabi
Multi Faith Center, doesn't it, So that I think they
just went with some other thing. And then the last
thing I'll mention is that Ed Lansdale also came up
with the idea, which they didn't actually do. But this
gives you an idea how just ruthless they are. The
idea of a staged second Coming of Christ, buried in
the footnote of a nineteen seventy five bureaucratic memorandum, was
a audacious, audacious plan of Ed Lansdale to use Christian
eschatology to manipulate Cuba to oppose Castro. More simply, he
wanted to use a CIA to simulate a second Coming
of Christ over Cuba under oath. CIA officer Thomas Parrett
testified this was an example of Landale's perspicacity. He had
a wonderful plan to get rid of Castro. This would
be the spreading of the word the second Coming of Christ,
that it was imminent and that Christ was going to
fight against Castro, who was the Antichrist. They ended up
not doing this because it was kind of outlandish, but
it gives you an idea of the type of religious
manipulation that the CIA is absolutely involved in.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm. Yeah, there was a lot. Uh, there's a
lot that has come to light recently too with did
you hear about the the geo fencing, Uh, yeah, with Israel.
Speaker 2: Geofencinganicals based on yeah, exactly, geofen.
Speaker 1: Well, what's what's interesting is, you know, I come I
come from a Protestant background. I was a non denominational
pastor and uh, our church had a bit of a
like SBC type history, so you get dispensationalists that would
come through the church. We didn't teach dispensationalism, but you'd
get people from that background. The brainwashing that these people
have been through is absolutely absurd, and it's no wonder.
I mean, they're literally getting paid targeted ad campaigns, uh,
paid by foreign interests to drive these ideas into their
head and get them to support these causes financially. It's
it's wild. I've seen I've seen things as absurd as
Christian Israel packed where you can sponsor a Israeli family
uh and pay for them. It's like, you know the
you have like the old ads where they have like
the dogs like in the Arms of the Age. But
it's just like a It's like, but.
Speaker 2: You're actually just paying for some Jewish chicks breast enlargement.
Probably that's why you're cleavage to antiquity. You were just
paying for those Jewish chicks to get big old knockers.
That's what was going on.
Speaker 1: That's right, it's cleavage to antiquity. You can you can sponsor,
you can sponsor big knockers in the fifty super chat.
Speaker 2: That's why Ben Shapiro's sister has what she has. Cleavage
to antiquity was behind that, and that was it was
me all along.
Speaker 1: You can thank me for the Kazar Milkers there.
Speaker 2: By the way, I'm glad you mentioned that because that
whole evangelical domain is another awesome example of religious engineering,
not so much from CIA State Department, but obviously Rothschild.
You know, Israeli interest wanting to convince American evangelicals through
things like, as you said, dispensationalism, Schofield study Bible, that
Russia and China or gog and magogue and we're locked
in and you know in times conflict. We recently covered
this on my channel with discussions about Calvary Chapel their
history of promoting a lot of that stuff. Uh, Dallas
Theological Seminary. Yeah, so that Hal Lindsay and his late
great Planter Earth.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I saw a stream you did not that long
ago where you were talking about within the evangelical music industry.
There's a lot of intelligence interaction there. You want to
talk about that a little bit.
Speaker 2: Maybe, I don't know if you remember, I mean what,
I don't remember that one specifically, but I'm not.
Speaker 1: I think it was. I don't remember if it was.
Katy Perry was one of these pop stars that had
oh yeah.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah yeah. So basically, yeah, Katy Perry's dad
is a megachurch pastor. A lot of people don't know that,
but prior to being this pastor, he was involved in
a lot of odd kind of situations and connections. He
was used to hand out LSD with Tim Leary, so
he was kind of in those and of course tim
Leary was openly part of you know, CIA operations and
projects to hand out LSD and kind of get people
experimenting and tuning out, tune in turn on, drop out,
whatever his phrase is. He actually brags about this too.
You can still find the clip on YouTube. If you
doubt me. He says, you can thank the CIA for
all the you know, sixties LSD stuff. So it's interesting that,
you know, Katy Perry's dad was involved in that, and granted,
maybe he later turned around or whatever. He may have
been a sincere convert at some point, but you know,
she describes her upbringing as very weird kind of Pentecostal
and authentic kind of Christianity, and I actually tend to
believe Katie. And in that case, not that I'm excusing
all of her sort of you know, pop pop star stuff,
but he was also involved in some sort of megachurch
that ended up in a big scandal. I'm not accusing
him of being directly involved in the scandal. I don't
know the details of it, but whatever megachurch he was
involved in, there was some adjacent as is usually the
case with you know, multimillion dollar megachurches, there's some money
laundering scandal going on there. But in the case of TBN,
which is where Katie Perry got her start, everybody's seen
you know TV preacher Pink haired TBN people back in
the day she was a Christian singer and then you know,
eventually morphed into whatever she is. But TBN has a
very suss you know, obviously sus background with money laundering
and organized crime connections, and BI even investigated them at
one point, and eventually they shut down. And so they
shut some of their stuff down and they sold out,
I think to Hillsong, which is now kind of the big,
you know, evangelical megachurch thing that owns everything. I've not
looked into a lot of CIA intelligence connections, necessarily to Hillsong,
but John Adams, who's a longtime friend, musician and researcher,
He's the one that kind of hit me to the
fact that Calvary Chapel, which was created by people coming
out of military intelligence in the CIA, they actually burned
the Christian music scene, which I didn't I didn't even
know that. So I'm not saying that CIA operators are
sitting around like literally mind controlling every Christian musician, but
it's it's a very clearly kind of tailored created thing,
if that makes sense. And I think that, you know,
that makes it kind of suspect, not not that Keith
Green is a CIA opert or whatever.
Speaker 1: But you know what I'm saying, Yeah, well, it's it's
not just a matter of being like a good singer
or something. You could be very talented and never make
it anywhere. You kind of almost have to be picked up,
especially in the like if you want to be like
a megastar, you want to be one of the mainstream individuals,
it almost seems like you do have to be picked
up by one of these interest groups and sponsored exact.
And I know you were talking about that a bit
in your lecture on the subject, but I absolutely agree.
And going back to the going back to the religious realm,
it almost seems like in order to get into these
positions like in the Roman Catholic Church, you have to
be I was talking about this with DPH not that
long ago, and we're talking about the benefits of the
Orthodox system of governance versus the Roman Catholic system of governance.
It's not very difficult to compromise one guy. It's not
difficult at all. I mean, it would be super easy
to subvert one individual in an institution, and then his
successors are basically going to be in line with with
the with the predecessor had and that's basically what Francis did.
If you were following that at all. Tim Gordon did
a good discussion on this. He had some of the
best coverage when Leo was elected. He frior to Leo's
election and posts that he did a whole expose on
Lavender mafia stuff, Saint Gallan mafia stuff. He was going
into the subversion of these institutions as well as some
of the the things that were set up before Leo's
election and then after. He was one of the only
Roman Catholics I think that actually called it when Leo
was elected that he's going to be a Francis two
point zero because this was this was an individual that
had met with Francis several times. There were reports that
were published that he had met with them like every
Saturday or something. So this was obviously set up for
him to succeed Francis. We knew that he was going
to carry on the legacy. His own brother said he
was going to carry on the legacy of Francis, and
he actually knew what was it. It was before the
cardinals had even finished voting that his brother was basically
the next pope. It was it was riculous. I mean,
there was all sorts of stuff that we're that were
circulated about this, But yeah, that's the beauty that goes
into this. This super chat question that was asked in
em Andy asks I was I was testing YouTube. Won't
let me type out Masons. It's getting censored for some reason. Question.
Do other jurisdictions have known high level Masons? I think
I think the concern behind this question is, well, now
that I know this information, like what do I do
you know? Is this is this a defeater for our worldview?
Absolutely not. I I knew this before I even stepped
a foot into an Orthodox church. This was all stuff
that I had been engaging in. I think, if anything,
it's a tech testimony to the power of uh the
Orthodox UH system of governance. It is actually divinely uh
guided by God, and the way that God has set
up the church is not so that one person who's
easily uh subverted is basically he's like you know, the
the uh uh what what's the term you use from
from Dune? Yeah, basically basically, so it's it's not as
if there is like one universal super being or whatever
that's like ruling over the entirety of Christendom. No, it's
it's a noble church governance. So that way, if you
do have uh these uh you know, one particular patriarchy
that ends up being used for geopolitical uh means you
have all of these other jurisdictions that can kind of
help to keep that in check. But what doesn't help
is when we decide that we're just going to be
quiet about these issues. Because if they don't get pushed
back then and they just go they go forward as planned,
and this thing, these things happen a lot quicker. This
kind of the purpose of them doing these meetings. From
my perspective, it seems like to see what the reaction is,
how much they are going to get, and they're kind
of like they're dipping a toe in the water. It's
it's two steps forward, one step back. Oh, dip my
toe in the water. I'm going to kind of backtrack
a little bit. We'll see how they react. Oh nope, nope,
too much blowback. Oh I got too much blowback after
I baptized the uh uh you know, the the baby
of the gay couple. Now I gotta I gotta take
a couple of steps back or that was like with
a fiducias Supplekans. They came out and they were saying,
you can bless gay couples. Boom, huge explosion, massive pushback,
and then oh later, oh well actually we're just talking
about the individuals.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you know, yeah, it's I noticed this when
I was a trad cat that you know, would always
be uh frustrated with the bureaucrates of the Vatican, that
they would always throw bones. You know, it's like things
will get really really bad, and then the Vatican would
throw a bone to the trads. Oh maybe we'll let
you have a Latin mass. This is back under like
John paul A second and Benedict right, because I remember
when when Benedict was elected, there was this you know,
great trad hope that everybody was very oh, he's gonna
do the motu proprio and we're going to have the
Latin mass restored. And this there was this this air
of hope which was soon dashed because it didn't really
go anywhere. And again, you know, the shutting down the
Latin mass. I think it is another huge indicator, not
that Latin is magical, but you know, it's it's a
clear indicator of a kind of destruction of the liturgical
heritage of the of the West. So, you know, the
more that you would see that kind of as you said,
two steps forward, one step back approach. I mean, these
are people who are you know, experts. I'm talking about.
The Vatican is very I mean, it's the the world's
oldest existing propaganda outlet. And if you don't know that,
that's what the Holy Office is. The Holy Office of
the Inquisition was also known for being kind of the
Holy Office of propaganda. That's originally where it comes from.
So the notion of propaganda itself is a kind of
an invention in the modern world as an invention actually
of the Vatican. People don't know that. But so the
very adept at the strategy of how to rule and
how to keep people in line. And when you start
sensing that, oh, you know, people think you're going to live, well,
throw a bone to the trads and then that'll kind
of you know, the pendulum will swing back this way, right.
But it's also a technique of moving the over to
window to you do something really radical, walk it back,
do something you can be more radical, walk it back,
and while you do this, you just kind of as
everybody hopefully everybody knows what moving over to window is, right,
so that's that's what they do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you could. You could definitely see very clearly with
what happened in the Vatican not that long ago with
the LGBT pilgrimage, and they they that was the big
that was the big explosion, moving the Overton window in
that direction, and they immediately walk it back. Now they have
you know, the statements where they say, oh, well we
just we did our y'all, we're going to investigate women
ordained deacons. Oh well actually no, now we've decided we're
not going to do women ordained deacons. Yeah, but just
a couple of months ago, you were doing an entire
LGBT pilgrimage into the Vatican where the Poge literally sent
a bishop that was on record stating that he was
pro giving unrepentant sodomites, you Christ. So he's the guy
that is doing the Pride Mass at the LGBT pilgrimage.
I literally sent him. This has approved basically from the
top down. Big swing. Now we're going to walk them
back a little bit. Oh, we're not going to do
women deacons at least in this investigation we can we
can invest get it later, but for now, we're gonna
give your little your little uh based pellets. We'll toss you.
I don't know how you come back from doing that, though,
having a literal like rainbow flag in the rainbow cross
in Basilica at the.
Speaker 2: Vatican, Yeah, I mean that one was just I mean
sometimes you just wonder like, is there at any point
at which like it's the breaking point or is it
just no, there is no breaking point, right, Like, I mean,
try and be charitable, but I just can't understand why
anybody would want to stay stay in the Roman Catholic world.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I can't either, especially with everything that's going
on lately and all of the pushes that they're I mean,
basically any anybody. I feel bad for the trads. I
really do, because I like people like I like people
like Tim Gordon, I like the guys from avoiding Babylon,
I like Anthony Stein. I like the trads. I have
a lot of respect for some of them. Some of
them obviously could be a little combative, but I've I've
I have a lot of respect for them. But I
mostly I just feel bad. It's it's got to be
it's got to be exhausting to have to deal with basically,
I mean, your entire life. If you're going to remain
Roman Catholic, it's got to be exhausting.
Speaker 2: Man.
Speaker 1: You think eventually they would, you know, wake up and
decide it's well, it's time to become orthodox.
Speaker 2: Yes. I don't know who's We're either going to have
a debate with Trent Horn if he'll do it, or
with Doug Wilson. So maybe maybe one more Trent Horn
debate can swing some of these people in the right direction.
I don't know, but we'll have to see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that'll be interesting, man. But this has been a
good This has been a good discussion. A lot of
really interesting stuff covered in this talk. And can you
want to plug before we're going.
Speaker 2: To wrap up here? Let's see what's what's going on. No,
I don't think there's much going on with other than
just kind of the typical live streams. I did do
a kind of a hefty breakdown yesterday with on the
topic of Professor Dave. I don't know people saw that
I finally got around to looking at the smug sort
of atheist pseudo professor turns out he's apparently not an
actual professor. He is a chiropractic degree or something, but
says he's professor Dave the Atheist Giant YouTube channel. Well,
he responded to me and Jim Bob talking about God's
existence and Darwinism and whatnot, and there wasn't really any
substance to the response. He's basically just calling a city.
It's the whole time. And then I did a stream
prior to that on the False Union. So yeah, that's
that's really all that's going on with me. You can
get my books, of course, signed copies in the shop
at Jason alsos dot com.
Speaker 1: Sounds good. Thanks so much for coming on, Jay, I
really appreciate it. If y'all want to watch this after
the fact, I'm gonna leave it up for a little
bit and then I'm gonna market members. But if you
want to consider becoming a member, really helps out the channel. Again.
Would love to have you back at some point, Jay,
And at some point, you know, I can pop on
your show and we can chat about something. Sure.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, All right.
Speaker 1: Y'all, thank you so much for watching. You'll have a
good day.