1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,439 Speaker 1: I want you to close your eyes for a second, seriously, 2 00:00:02,560 --> 00:00:05,799 just for a moment. Picture this. It's November seventeenth, nineteen 3 00:00:05,839 --> 00:00:10,439 eighty six. You are Captain Kenjo Tarocchi. You aren't a 4 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,679 ricky pilot. You are a seasoned veteran with over ten 5 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:17,320 thousand hours in the air, top of his field exactly. 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,280 You're commanding a massive japan Airlines seven four to seven 7 00:00:21,359 --> 00:00:25,239 cargo freighter Flight sixteen twenty eight. You're cruising over the 8 00:00:25,559 --> 00:00:28,679 icy darkness of Alaska on what pilots call the milk 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:33,399 run from Paris to Tokyo. It's quiet, routine, totally routine. 10 00:00:33,439 --> 00:00:35,840 The drone of the engines is the only sound you hear. 11 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:37,600 It's boring until. 12 00:00:37,359 --> 00:00:39,159 Speaker 2: It isn't, and it really really isn't. 13 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:41,280 Speaker 1: You look at the port side window. At first, it's 14 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,840 just lights, two of them, strange amber colored square lights. 15 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,880 But here's the thing. They are pacing you, which is 16 00:00:47,920 --> 00:00:49,079 the first impossibility. 17 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:51,759 Speaker 2: They're moving with a precision that makes your stomach turn 18 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:54,679 because planes, you know, planes don't move like that. They're 19 00:00:54,679 --> 00:00:57,399 defying inertia. And then, just as your brain tries to 20 00:00:57,399 --> 00:01:01,560 categorize them as military jets or maybe a reflection, they vanish. 21 00:01:01,679 --> 00:01:03,399 Speaker 1: But they don't just leave, do they. That would be 22 00:01:03,439 --> 00:01:08,239 too easy. No, they're replaced. Something emerges from the darkness 23 00:01:08,239 --> 00:01:11,519 that your brain just refuses to process. It's a silhouette 24 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:12,920 so massive it blocks out the. 25 00:01:12,879 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: Stars, and he described it as the size of what 26 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:16,599 was it. 27 00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:21,840 Speaker 1: Two aircraft carriers, a mothership. It floods your cockpit with 28 00:01:21,879 --> 00:01:24,560 so much light you can physically feel the heat on 29 00:01:24,599 --> 00:01:25,079 your skin. 30 00:01:25,239 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 2: This isn't just a visual sighting anymore. This is a 31 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:28,439 physical experience. 32 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,359 Speaker 1: You check the radar, it's there. Ground Control and anchorage 33 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,599 they see it too. The US military at Norat, they 34 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:37,799 see it. This is happening. You aren't crazy. 35 00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:40,560 Speaker 2: All the data is corroborating what his eyes are telling him. 36 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: So you land, you're shaking. You report it to the FAA. 37 00:01:43,799 --> 00:01:46,319 You assume this is the biggest event in aviation history. 38 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,400 And then a few weeks later, a specialized team from 39 00:01:49,519 --> 00:01:52,519 Washington flies in. They take your flight data recorders, they 40 00:01:52,599 --> 00:01:54,640 take the radar tapes, all the evidence. They look your 41 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:57,239 feet and the FAA division chief in the eye and 42 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:00,920 a CIA agent says five words that effective and your career. 43 00:02:01,719 --> 00:02:02,879 This meeting never happened. 44 00:02:03,159 --> 00:02:05,239 Speaker 2: It sounds like a screenplay. It sounds like the cold 45 00:02:05,280 --> 00:02:07,719 open to the X file. Yeah, but what you just 46 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,439 described is a documented historical event. It is, and it 47 00:02:11,599 --> 00:02:15,199 perfectly frames the tension of what we are doing today. 48 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,479 It is the friction between what is seen, what is 49 00:02:18,560 --> 00:02:23,560 undeniably physically real, and the official machinery designed to erase it. 50 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:27,159 Speaker 1: Welcome to thrilling threads. I am your host, and today 51 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,479 we are pulling on the heaviest thread of them all. 52 00:02:30,319 --> 00:02:34,280 We are talking about disclosure, a loaded word, a very 53 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:36,199 loaded word, And I want to be clear right off 54 00:02:36,199 --> 00:02:38,879 the bat. We are not sitting here looking at grainy 55 00:02:38,879 --> 00:02:41,680 polaroids from the nineteen fifties that look like a frisbee 56 00:02:41,719 --> 00:02:42,439 thrown in a park. 57 00:02:42,599 --> 00:02:44,639 Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't be here if we were. We were 58 00:02:44,759 --> 00:02:46,840 past that point in the conversation exactly. 59 00:02:46,879 --> 00:02:49,120 Speaker 1: We are looking at a stack of sources that is 60 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:53,319 frankly heavy. I'm holding the twenty twenty one Preliminary Assessment 61 00:02:53,360 --> 00:02:56,360 from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence right here. 62 00:02:56,439 --> 00:02:57,159 Speaker 2: That's the big one. 63 00:02:57,199 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 1: We've got declassified cockpit videos released by the Pentagon self. 64 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:03,639 We have flight logs, radar data, and transcripts from the 65 00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:05,199 CIA's Project Stargate. 66 00:03:05,520 --> 00:03:07,319 Speaker 2: Some really deep declassified stuff. 67 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,719 Speaker 1: The mission today is to sift through this noise and 68 00:03:09,759 --> 00:03:11,560 find the signal. We're going to look at how the 69 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:15,080 narrative has shifted from swamp gas and weather balloons to 70 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:17,439 national security threat, and. 71 00:03:17,479 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: More importantly, we need to understand the implications of that shift, 72 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,479 because the sources we have today aren't just telling us 73 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:28,680 that something is happening. They are giving us clues about 74 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:29,479 what is happening. 75 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:31,639 Speaker 1: You're talking about the technology. 76 00:03:31,080 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 2: We're talking about propulsion physics that shouldn't exist. We're talking 77 00:03:34,879 --> 00:03:40,159 about geopolitical maneuvering between the US, Japan, and even Chili 78 00:03:40,479 --> 00:03:41,159 of all places. 79 00:03:41,199 --> 00:03:42,879 Speaker 1: We have a lot to get through. We're going to 80 00:03:42,919 --> 00:03:46,520 break down those famous Navy videos the tic TAC frame 81 00:03:46,599 --> 00:03:47,159 by frame. 82 00:03:47,439 --> 00:03:48,879 Speaker 2: We have to it's foundational. 83 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,120 Speaker 1: We're going to look at the alien reactor theory that 84 00:03:51,159 --> 00:03:54,319 some say threatens the entire global economy, and we're going 85 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:57,400 to revisit that Alaska incident and connect it to a 86 00:03:57,439 --> 00:04:00,000 secret base allegedly hidden inside a mountain. 87 00:04:00,159 --> 00:04:03,680 Speaker 2: It's a wild ride, but everything we discuss is anchored 88 00:04:03,719 --> 00:04:05,800 in the documents in front of us. It is going 89 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,240 to require us to keep an open mind, but also 90 00:04:08,319 --> 00:04:09,000 critical one. 91 00:04:09,039 --> 00:04:11,759 Speaker 1: So let's get into it. Section one, the Pentagon pivot. 92 00:04:12,080 --> 00:04:14,360 Speaker 2: This is the moment the dam broke. This is where 93 00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:16,519 modern history on this topic changed. 94 00:04:16,879 --> 00:04:20,240 Speaker 1: It really is. For decades, the vibe from the government 95 00:04:20,439 --> 00:04:25,319 was deny, deny. But then December twenty seventeen hits. I 96 00:04:25,399 --> 00:04:28,800 remember opening New York Times, I mean the paper of record, 97 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:32,720 not some tabloid, and seeing the headline glowing auras. 98 00:04:32,319 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 2: And black money on the front page. 99 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,199 Speaker 1: On the front page. That didn't feel real. 100 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,319 Speaker 2: That article changed everything, and it didn't happen by accident. 101 00:04:39,399 --> 00:04:41,639 You have to understand, it was engineered. We have to 102 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:44,800 talk about Louis Alazando. You cannot tell this story without 103 00:04:44,879 --> 00:04:46,720 understanding who he is and what he risked. 104 00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:50,319 Speaker 1: Hey, Alizondo is such a fascinating character in this narrative. 105 00:04:50,759 --> 00:04:53,199 He wasn't a UFO hunter and a tinfoil had He 106 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,079 wasn't a guy with a blog in his basement. 107 00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,519 Speaker 2: No. No, he was a career counterintelligence officer, high. 108 00:04:58,399 --> 00:05:01,879 Speaker 1: Level, extremely high level. He and special operations in Afghanistan 109 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:04,720 and the Middle East. This is a serious person, and. 110 00:05:04,639 --> 00:05:07,399 Speaker 2: He was running a program inside the Pentagon called a TIP, 111 00:05:07,759 --> 00:05:11,879 the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program now pauls on that 112 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,399 name for a second aerospace threat. 113 00:05:14,279 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: Not anomalous or unidentified threat. 114 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 2: That is a very specific choice of words. It implies 115 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,959 they weren't looking for little green men or studying exobiology 116 00:05:23,079 --> 00:05:25,319 that were looking for technology that could hurt us. They 117 00:05:25,319 --> 00:05:27,920 were looking at capabilities that outmatched our own. 118 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 1: But Eli Zander got frustrated, right, He's seeing this incredible data, 119 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:35,720 these reports from pilots, I mean, our best pilots, and 120 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,120 the bureaucracy is stonewalling him. 121 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 2: He felt the information was being stovepipe kept in these 122 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:43,480 little silos so no one could see the big picture. 123 00:05:43,639 --> 00:05:46,720 He saw videos and radar data that showed US airspace, 124 00:05:47,000 --> 00:05:51,000 sensitive military airspace was being penetrated with impunity. 125 00:05:50,519 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: And no one seemed to care. 126 00:05:51,879 --> 00:05:55,160 Speaker 2: Or they cared, but the stigma was so great that 127 00:05:55,240 --> 00:05:57,480 nobody at the top wanted to touch it. He tried 128 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,160 to push it up the chain of command, and he 129 00:05:59,279 --> 00:06:02,480 just hit this wall of secrecy and frankly ridicule. 130 00:06:02,639 --> 00:06:03,399 Speaker 1: So what did he do. 131 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,959 Speaker 2: He did the only thing a man of conscience could do. 132 00:06:06,160 --> 00:06:09,839 He resigned, and his resignation letter to then Secretary of 133 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,319 Defense James Mattis, is in our stack here it's scathing. 134 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,160 He essentially says, we are ignoring a clear and present 135 00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:19,759 reality and we are doing so at our own peril. 136 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:22,600 Speaker 1: So he leaves the Pentagon, but he doesn't go quietly 137 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,879 into the night. He teams up with Chris Mellin, another insider, 138 00:06:27,000 --> 00:06:30,399 a huge insider. Chris Mellon was the Deputy Assistant Secretary 139 00:06:30,439 --> 00:06:33,800 of Defense for Intelligence under two administrations. So you have 140 00:06:33,839 --> 00:06:37,399 two very high level, credible people who decide the only 141 00:06:37,439 --> 00:06:39,319 way to get this out is to go public. 142 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:42,199 Speaker 2: And they don't go to a UFO conference. They go 143 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:43,240 to Leslie Keene. 144 00:06:43,519 --> 00:06:46,519 Speaker 1: Leslie Keen is the journalist who wrote the book on this. Literally, 145 00:06:46,839 --> 00:06:50,040 she's serious, people, Her uncle was the governor of New 146 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,680 Jersey and head of the nine to eleven Commission. She 147 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:53,720 isn't chasing clicks. 148 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 2: She's a bulldog for facts. She teamed up with Ralph 149 00:06:57,040 --> 00:07:00,560 Blumenthal and Helene Cooper at the Times, and together they 150 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:03,639 facilitated the release of three videos that have now become 151 00:07:03,959 --> 00:07:06,040 iconic Tictac. 152 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:10,079 Speaker 1: Gimbal and Go Fast, the Unholy Trinity of UAP videos, 153 00:07:10,199 --> 00:07:10,519 that's a. 154 00:07:10,439 --> 00:07:12,319 Speaker 2: Good way to put it. And they were released by 155 00:07:12,319 --> 00:07:15,279 the government through the proper channels. This wasn't a leak. 156 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:17,879 Speaker 1: Let's drill down into the tic TAC video, because out 157 00:07:17,879 --> 00:07:20,120 of everything in our sources, this one seems to be 158 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:22,319 the one that keeps physicists up at night. I want 159 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:25,639 to really understand why this specific encounter is so damn important. 160 00:07:25,879 --> 00:07:28,879 Speaker 2: Okay, So the tic Tac incident occurred in November two 161 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:32,279 thousand and four off the coast of San Diego, involving 162 00:07:32,319 --> 00:07:34,759 the USS Nimitz Carrier Strike Group. 163 00:07:35,079 --> 00:07:36,879 Speaker 1: So a whole fleet of ships. 164 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,680 Speaker 2: A whole fleet. The primary witnesses we hear from are 165 00:07:39,720 --> 00:07:43,959 Commander David Fraver and Lieutenant Commander Alex Dietrich. These are 166 00:07:43,959 --> 00:07:46,439 top gun graduates. They are the cream of the crop 167 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:47,639 trained observers. 168 00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: Fraver is the squadron commander. This is the guy you 169 00:07:50,319 --> 00:07:53,639 trust with a forty million dollar F eighteen jet. He's 170 00:07:53,680 --> 00:07:57,879 not prone to flights of fancy or misidentifying a seagull exactly. 171 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 2: So, they are on a routine training mission and they 172 00:08:00,399 --> 00:08:03,319 get vectored by the command ship, the USS Princeton, to 173 00:08:03,399 --> 00:08:07,319 intercept a contact. Now here's the first critical data point. 174 00:08:07,519 --> 00:08:10,160 The Princeton had been tracking these objects for days. 175 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:11,959 Speaker 1: For days, I thought it was just this one encounter. 176 00:08:12,199 --> 00:08:15,480 Speaker 2: No, that's the part that often gets missed. The operators 177 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:18,439 on the Princeton using the Spy one radar, we're seeing 178 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:19,480 fleets of these things. 179 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:21,959 Speaker 1: And the Spy one is no joke. That's the most 180 00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,839 advanced naval radar system in the world at the time. 181 00:08:24,920 --> 00:08:27,360 It can track a golf ball for miles away. 182 00:08:27,639 --> 00:08:30,879 Speaker 2: It is the heart of the US Navy's air defense system. 183 00:08:31,199 --> 00:08:34,960 It wasn't a glitch. The radar operators were seeing these 184 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,320 objects drop from eighty thousand feet to sea level in 185 00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:39,360 less than a second. 186 00:08:39,519 --> 00:08:41,919 Speaker 1: Okay, stop right there, let's pause and really unpack the 187 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,879 physics of that eighty thousand feet to zero. Just think 188 00:08:44,879 --> 00:08:45,559 about that drop. 189 00:08:45,679 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 2: It's hard to even conceptualize. Yeah, that is a vertical 190 00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:52,919 drop of over fifteen miles to cover that distance in 191 00:08:53,039 --> 00:08:55,279 roughly point seven eight seconds, which is what the radar 192 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:58,480 data suggests. You were talking about velocities in the range 193 00:08:58,519 --> 00:09:00,600 of Mark twenty to Mark sixty, tens. 194 00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,000 Speaker 1: Of thousands of miles per hour, straight down. 195 00:09:02,799 --> 00:09:05,039 Speaker 2: Straight down, and then it's stuck. Got a dime instantly. 196 00:09:05,600 --> 00:09:07,679 And that is the problem. Is not the speed that 197 00:09:07,759 --> 00:09:11,440 kills you. It's the sudden stop. It's the deceleration. If 198 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:13,679 a human pilot were inside a craft that did that, 199 00:09:14,399 --> 00:09:17,519 the G forces, the gravitational force equivalent would be in 200 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:18,200 the thousands. 201 00:09:18,279 --> 00:09:20,919 Speaker 1: Humans pass out at what nine g's with a special 202 00:09:20,919 --> 00:09:21,399 suit on. 203 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:23,679 Speaker 2: Right, at nine g's with a G suit, you can 204 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:25,600 function for a little bit. At hundreds of g's. A 205 00:09:25,639 --> 00:09:28,759 human body doesn't just pass out. It liquefies. You would 206 00:09:28,759 --> 00:09:31,120 be turned into biological soup inside. 207 00:09:30,759 --> 00:09:32,759 Speaker 1: The cockpit and the plane itself forget it. 208 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:36,919 Speaker 2: The airframe would disintegrate, wings would snap, metal would buckle. 209 00:09:37,159 --> 00:09:40,240 Material science as we know it cannot survive those forces. 210 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:43,360 It's a non survivable event for both pilot and machine. 211 00:09:43,519 --> 00:09:45,759 Speaker 1: But Frawer gets eyes on this thing. He and d 212 00:09:45,919 --> 00:09:48,320 Trick they fly out and they see it down near 213 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,600 the water. He describes it as a tic. 214 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:55,720 Speaker 2: Tac about forty feet long, white smooth, no wings, no tail, 215 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,679 no rivets, no cockpit, and crucially no exhaust, no visible 216 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:01,480 means of propulsion. 217 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: That's the part that gets me, he said. The water 218 00:10:03,480 --> 00:10:06,000 under it was churning like it was boiling, but the 219 00:10:06,039 --> 00:10:09,320 object itself had no visible propulsion, no jet wash, no 220 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:11,879 rotor down wash, just hovering erratically. 221 00:10:12,279 --> 00:10:14,679 Speaker 2: And when fraverer tries to engage it. He decides to 222 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,000 dive down to cut it off. The object recognizes. 223 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:18,639 Speaker 1: Him, It reacts to him. 224 00:10:18,759 --> 00:10:20,960 Speaker 2: It maneuvers around him. It mirrors his movement, but on 225 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:24,759 the vertical axis. This suggests intelligent control. It isn't a 226 00:10:24,879 --> 00:10:27,440 drone on a pre programmed path. It is reacting to 227 00:10:27,519 --> 00:10:30,320 him in real time. And then it accelerates and vanishes 228 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:31,200 like a bullet. 229 00:10:30,919 --> 00:10:33,879 Speaker 1: From a gun. He said, just gone, and here is 230 00:10:33,919 --> 00:10:36,559 the kicker from the source notes that just gives me goosebumps. 231 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,960 The object reappears on the Princeton's radar seconds later at 232 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:41,799 the CAAP. 233 00:10:41,600 --> 00:10:44,159 Speaker 2: Point, the combat air Patrol rally point. 234 00:10:43,919 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: Which is sixty miles. 235 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:49,919 Speaker 2: Away, and that detail is chilling. The CAAP point is 236 00:10:50,039 --> 00:10:54,320 a predetermined, confidential coordinate known only to the pilots and 237 00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,159 the command ship. It's their emergency rally point. 238 00:10:57,279 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: So this thing knew where they were going before they did. 239 00:10:59,759 --> 00:11:02,759 Speaker 2: It's suggested it had access to their data link, or 240 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,720 it could predict their movements with one hundred percent accuracy. 241 00:11:06,159 --> 00:11:09,840 That is a level of technological and intelligent superiority that 242 00:11:10,039 --> 00:11:12,360 is terrifying to a military commander. 243 00:11:12,519 --> 00:11:15,200 Speaker 1: So Fraber goes back to the ship totally stunned. Then 244 00:11:15,240 --> 00:11:17,639 you have Lieutenant Chad Underwood. He goes up next and 245 00:11:17,679 --> 00:11:20,320 he's the one who actually records the FLR video. We've 246 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:20,759 all seen. 247 00:11:20,879 --> 00:11:24,279 Speaker 2: The FLR is the forward looking Infrared camera. It detects 248 00:11:24,279 --> 00:11:26,879 heat signatures. If you are flying a jet, you are 249 00:11:26,919 --> 00:11:29,879 a giant heat source. Your engines are spewing hot gas. 250 00:11:30,039 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 1: And on the video you can hear the pilots talking. 251 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:34,279 Speaker 2: You hear them saying, look at that thing. It's rotating 252 00:11:34,519 --> 00:11:37,000 under its switches between white hot and black hot modes 253 00:11:37,039 --> 00:11:39,960 on the camera. The object is cold. It has no 254 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,759 thermal plume, which makes no sense. It makes zero sense 255 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:46,440 by all known laws of thermodynamics, an object moving at 256 00:11:46,480 --> 00:11:50,720 supersonic speeds through the atmosphere should be glowing with friction heat. 257 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,200 It isn't. It's like the laws of physics don't apply 258 00:11:54,279 --> 00:11:54,559 to it. 259 00:11:54,879 --> 00:11:58,279 Speaker 1: This leads us to the five observables. This is the 260 00:11:58,279 --> 00:12:02,039 framework the intelligence community and guys like Elizondo used to 261 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,879 categorize these things. Walk us through them, because this is 262 00:12:04,879 --> 00:12:06,759 the checklist for impossible. 263 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: Sure. These were popularized by Elizondo to help people, especially 264 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,559 on Capitol Hill, understand what we're looking at number one, 265 00:12:14,120 --> 00:12:15,480 anti gravity. 266 00:12:15,039 --> 00:12:19,159 Speaker 1: Lift, no wings, no visible propulsion, Yet it flies. It 267 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:21,840 defies the requirement for aerodynamic list. 268 00:12:21,759 --> 00:12:25,799 Speaker 2: To instantaneous acceleration zero to mock twenty in a blink. 269 00:12:26,080 --> 00:12:27,840 Inertia doesn't seem to apply to it. 270 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,080 Speaker 1: It doesn't have to build up speed. It's just there. 271 00:12:30,399 --> 00:12:36,600 Speaker 2: Exactly. Three hypersonic velocity without signatures, moving incredibly fast, without 272 00:12:36,639 --> 00:12:39,919 a sonic boom, without a heat trail, without distrobing the air. 273 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:42,960 Usually if you break the sound barrier, you shatter windows 274 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,759 on the ground. These things are silent. Number four four 275 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:52,039 low observability, or as some call it, cloaking. They can 276 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,320 become invisible to radar, invisible to the naked eye, or both. 277 00:12:55,639 --> 00:12:58,080 Speaker 1: And the fifth one is the real mind bender. 278 00:12:58,399 --> 00:13:00,320 Speaker 2: Five trans medium travel. 279 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:02,919 Speaker 1: Trans medium that means it operates in different environments. 280 00:13:03,159 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 2: Exactly. We have planes that fly in the air, we 281 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:08,200 have submarines that go underwater. We have rockets for space. 282 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,519 This object and others like it do all three seamlessly. 283 00:13:12,759 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: It goes from space, which is a vacuum, to air, 284 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,440 which is our atmosphere, to water, which is a dense. 285 00:13:19,159 --> 00:13:22,840 Speaker 2: Liquid, without changing shape, shedding parts, or even slowing down. 286 00:13:23,200 --> 00:13:25,399 We have reports of these things being tracked on radar 287 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:27,759 going into the ocean at thousands of miles per hour. 288 00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:29,919 Speaker 1: We don't have that. I mean, do we have anything 289 00:13:30,159 --> 00:13:31,639 even remotely close to that. 290 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:35,320 Speaker 2: We absolutely don't have that. We struggle to make a 291 00:13:35,360 --> 00:13:37,919 plane that can land on a carrier deck without crashing 292 00:13:37,960 --> 00:13:40,720 half the time, let alone one that can dive underwater 293 00:13:40,759 --> 00:13:44,080 and keep going at Mack three. It's a material science 294 00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:46,399 and propulsion problem we haven't even begun to. 295 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,279 Speaker 1: Solve, and the sources are pretty clear. The Chinese don't 296 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:50,879 have that. The Russians don't have that. 297 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:55,639 Speaker 2: Think about it, logically, if Russia or China had technology 298 00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,559 that could make our carrier groups look like sitting ducks, 299 00:13:59,279 --> 00:14:02,080 we would be making Russian or Chinese right now. 300 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:04,399 Speaker 1: The Cold War would have ended very differently. 301 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:07,759 Speaker 2: The geopolitical balance of power would have shifted overnight. They 302 00:14:07,759 --> 00:14:10,720 wouldn't be building conventional jets. They would be dominating the 303 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:14,159 globe with this tech. The fact that they haven't suggest 304 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:15,759 this technology belongs to. 305 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,399 Speaker 1: Someone else, someone else, that's the cliffhanger. That's the phrase 306 00:14:20,440 --> 00:14:22,960 that opens the door to everything. We are afraid to say. 307 00:14:23,399 --> 00:14:25,840 But to understand the technology, or at least the theory 308 00:14:25,879 --> 00:14:27,919 of it. We have to go back. We have to 309 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:30,320 leave the sanitized halls of the Pentagon and go to. 310 00:14:30,279 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 2: The desert back in time. 311 00:14:31,639 --> 00:14:33,919 Speaker 1: We need to talk about the man who basically invented 312 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,679 the modern Area fifty one mythos. We need to talk 313 00:14:36,679 --> 00:14:38,320 about Bob Blazar. 314 00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:41,960 Speaker 2: Ah, Bob Blazar. You cannot have a conversation about UAPs 315 00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:45,519 without addressing the Lazar element. He is the most controversial 316 00:14:45,519 --> 00:14:48,320 figure in this entire stack of sources, but his story 317 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,440 has remained remarkably consistent since nineteen eighty nine. 318 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:55,039 Speaker 1: The sources take us back to May fifteenth, nineteen eighty nine, 319 00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:59,039 Las Vegas. George Knapp, an investigative journalist, is interviewing a 320 00:14:59,039 --> 00:15:01,320 silhouette on TV. They call him Dennis. 321 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 2: Dennis was Lazarre, hiding his identity because he was terrified 322 00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:07,960 for his life. He claimed to be a physicist who 323 00:15:08,039 --> 00:15:10,440 was hired to work at a facility called S four. 324 00:15:10,399 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 1: And S four is an Area fifty one right, it's 325 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:13,039 near it, he said. 326 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:14,879 Speaker 2: S four was built into the side of a mountain 327 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,000 just south of the main Groom Lake facility, what we 328 00:15:17,039 --> 00:15:19,519 all call Area fifty one. The hangers were disguised to 329 00:15:19,559 --> 00:15:21,399 look like the desert landscape. 330 00:15:20,919 --> 00:15:22,759 Speaker 1: And his job wasn't to look at lights in the sky. 331 00:15:23,039 --> 00:15:25,480 It was hands on. He claims he touched the craft. 332 00:15:25,799 --> 00:15:28,559 Speaker 2: It was reverse engineering that was his task. He claimed 333 00:15:28,559 --> 00:15:31,960 there were nine distinct non terrestrial craft and hangers at 334 00:15:32,039 --> 00:15:35,039 S four nine, all different shapes. He worked on one 335 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:36,000 called the Sport model. 336 00:15:36,120 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 1: This is where the physics gets really specific. Lazarre didn't 337 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,519 just say it's magic or it's alien. He described a 338 00:15:42,559 --> 00:15:45,480 propulsion system based on an element that at the time 339 00:15:45,720 --> 00:15:47,639 didn't exist on our periodic. 340 00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 2: Table, element one fifteen. 341 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:50,639 Speaker 1: Which is now known as moscovium. 342 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 2: Right at the time in eighty nine, element one fifteen 343 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:57,799 was purely theoretical. It was a blank spot on the chart. 344 00:15:58,000 --> 00:16:00,559 We have since synthesized it in a lab, but our 345 00:16:00,679 --> 00:16:04,120 version is incredibly unstable and decays in milliseconds. 346 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,879 Speaker 1: But Lazarre clammed the version they had with stable. He 347 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,679 said this element was the fuel for a reactor, the 348 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:10,559 alien reactor. 349 00:16:10,679 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: It sounds like a bad movie title, but let's treat 350 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:15,080 his description seriously for a second, because it's fascinating. 351 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:16,519 Speaker 1: Okay, so how did he say it worked. 352 00:16:16,919 --> 00:16:19,559 Speaker 2: He described a device about the size of a basketball, 353 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,639 a hemisphere inside this stable element one point fifteen was 354 00:16:24,679 --> 00:16:28,919 bombarded with particles and in its decay chain it produced antimatter. 355 00:16:29,679 --> 00:16:33,120 The antimatter would then annihilate with matter, creating a huge 356 00:16:33,240 --> 00:16:33,919 energy reaction. 357 00:16:34,039 --> 00:16:35,879 Speaker 1: Okay, that's a lot of physics. What's the output. 358 00:16:36,039 --> 00:16:39,159 Speaker 2: The output wasn't heat or thrust. It was a gravitational wave. 359 00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 1: And this is the key concept. It didn't burn fuel 360 00:16:42,480 --> 00:16:44,960 to push air out the back like a jet. It 361 00:16:45,039 --> 00:16:46,960 created its own gravity exactly. 362 00:16:47,399 --> 00:16:50,639 Speaker 2: It had three gravity amplifiers or emitters on the bottom 363 00:16:50,639 --> 00:16:54,919 of the craft. By focusing and amplifying these gravity waves, 364 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:56,720 it could distort space. 365 00:16:56,519 --> 00:16:59,720 Speaker 1: Time, so it's not flying through the air, it's pulling. 366 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,360 Speaker 2: Its destiny nation towards it. Imagine a bowling ball on 367 00:17:02,399 --> 00:17:05,480 a mattress. It curves the mattress right, and if you 368 00:17:05,519 --> 00:17:08,039 put a marble nearby, it rolls toward the bowling ball. 369 00:17:08,799 --> 00:17:11,799 Lazarre said, this reactor could create that bowling ball effect 370 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:14,200 in front of the ship. Instead of moving the ship 371 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:16,480 through space, it pulled space towards the ship. 372 00:17:16,559 --> 00:17:17,759 Speaker 1: My brain just broke a little bit. 373 00:17:18,039 --> 00:17:21,640 Speaker 2: It's mind bending, but it explains the five observables we 374 00:17:21,759 --> 00:17:24,240 just talked about. If you are inside a bubble of 375 00:17:24,279 --> 00:17:28,279 warped space time. You don't feel g forces because you're 376 00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:31,240 technically not moving. You don't create a sonic boom because 377 00:17:31,279 --> 00:17:33,680 the air moves around the bubble, not the craft. It's 378 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:37,640 an elegant, if unbelievable solution to all the physics problems. 379 00:17:37,839 --> 00:17:40,839 Speaker 1: It fits the data from the tic TAC perfectly. It's 380 00:17:40,880 --> 00:17:44,279 almost eerie how well his nineteen eighty nine description matches 381 00:17:44,319 --> 00:17:46,759 the two thousand and four video evidence. But here is 382 00:17:46,759 --> 00:17:48,680 the part that really hits me. In the notes, the 383 00:17:48,720 --> 00:17:51,519 part that has nothing to do with physics, Lazarre talked 384 00:17:51,519 --> 00:17:53,000 about the economic implications. 385 00:17:53,079 --> 00:17:55,440 Speaker 2: This is the why heide question. People always ask, why 386 00:17:55,440 --> 00:17:57,839 would the government keep this secret? Well, if you have 387 00:17:57,880 --> 00:18:01,160 a reactor the size of a basketball that produces limitless 388 00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:05,200 clean energy from a gram of fuel, what happens to exon, 389 00:18:05,559 --> 00:18:07,640 what happens to the power grid, what happens to the 390 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:08,559 petro dollar. 391 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,079 Speaker 1: The entire world economy would go end on end. That 392 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:11,960 was his direct quote. 393 00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,839 Speaker 2: It's a complete and total economic reset. If energy is 394 00:18:14,880 --> 00:18:17,559 free or close to it, the cost of everything drops 395 00:18:17,559 --> 00:18:21,359 to near zero, transportation, manufacturing, heating your home. It's a 396 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:24,640 utopia in theory, but it's also absolute chaos. 397 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 1: In practice, wars are fought over oil. Entire national economies 398 00:18:28,759 --> 00:18:31,319 like Russia and Saudi Arabia are based on it. Currencies 399 00:18:31,359 --> 00:18:34,240 are pegged to energy. If you release this technology, you 400 00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:37,920 crash the current system. You bankrupt the most powerful corporations 401 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:39,400 and nations on Earth overnight. 402 00:18:39,559 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: So the secrecy isn't just about we don't want to 403 00:18:41,960 --> 00:18:45,440 scare the public with aliens. It's about protecting the global 404 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,640 economic status quo. It's about money and power. 405 00:18:48,799 --> 00:18:51,160 Speaker 1: And look at what happened to Lazarre for speaking out. 406 00:18:51,319 --> 00:18:54,319 The government didn't just ignore him, they tried to erase him. 407 00:18:54,519 --> 00:18:57,599 Speaker 2: He claims his birth records, his employment records at Los 408 00:18:57,599 --> 00:19:02,039 Almost National Labs, his education records from MIT and Caltech 409 00:19:02,160 --> 00:19:04,920 all wiped. It was like he never existed. He became 410 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:05,519 a ghost. 411 00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,880 Speaker 1: But they couldn't wipe the people who knew him. His 412 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:11,240 former colleagues at Los Alamost remembered him. There were phone books. 413 00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:14,759 Speaker 2: With his name in them, and he was raided, constantly harassed. 414 00:19:14,799 --> 00:19:19,160 Even recently, the FBI raided his scientific supply business in Michigan. 415 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 1: That raid happened during the filming of the Jeremy Corbell 416 00:19:22,079 --> 00:19:25,680 documentary in twenty eighteen. That's recent history. It suggests they 417 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,920 are still afraid of what he might have. They were 418 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:31,079 looking for a piece of the element he allegedly smuggled out. 419 00:19:31,279 --> 00:19:34,359 Speaker 2: It does it. It contrasts so sharply with the environment today. 420 00:19:35,039 --> 00:19:38,279 Lazarre was the unauthorized leak and he was punished, hunted. 421 00:19:38,559 --> 00:19:41,759 Elizondo was the authorized protest and he is a media 422 00:19:41,839 --> 00:19:46,119 darling testifying before Congress. The landscape is totally shifted. 423 00:19:45,839 --> 00:19:48,799 Speaker 1: Which brings us to the official acknowledgment. The government finally 424 00:19:48,839 --> 00:19:52,000 had to show its cards. Section three. The twenty twenty 425 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,039 one watershed moment, the OD and I report. 426 00:19:55,519 --> 00:19:58,519 Speaker 2: This was a huge moment. This was a mandate from Congress. 427 00:19:59,079 --> 00:20:02,160 The Senate Intelligence Committee, led by Marco Rubio at the time, 428 00:20:02,319 --> 00:20:05,319 effectively said, we are tired of the secrets. We are 429 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:08,519 tired of our pilots being afraid to report things. We 430 00:20:08,559 --> 00:20:10,559 want to know what you know, put it on paper. 431 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:14,680 Speaker 1: So they released this nine page preliminary assessment. They looked 432 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:17,559 at one hundred and forty four incidents reported by military 433 00:20:17,559 --> 00:20:20,119 personnel between twenty four and twenty twenty one, and I 434 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:22,519 want to highlight the number of cases they solved one 435 00:20:22,720 --> 00:20:26,240 one out of one hundred and forty four military encounters. 436 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:29,599 They confidently identified one deflating balloon, which. 437 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,400 Speaker 2: Is almost comical. It leaves one hundred and forty three 438 00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:33,880 cases in that we don't know pile, but the language 439 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:36,079 they use to describe that pile is fascinating. 440 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:40,079 Speaker 1: They created these categories airborne clutter, natural phenomena, foreign adversary systems, 441 00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:41,519 US developmental. 442 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:43,240 Speaker 2: Programs, and then the other bin. 443 00:20:43,519 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 1: That other bin is doing a lot of heavy lifting. 444 00:20:45,920 --> 00:20:47,920 It's the scariest bin in the whole report. 445 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:52,160 Speaker 2: It is because the report explicitly states that for the 446 00:20:52,200 --> 00:20:55,559 objects in the other category, and I'm quoting here, we 447 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,920 may require additional scientific knowledge to explain them. 448 00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: Additional scientific knowledge. That is a polite, bureaucratic, Pentagon speak 449 00:21:04,519 --> 00:21:07,359 way of saying our physics textbooks are broken. 450 00:21:07,480 --> 00:21:11,039 Speaker 2: Socisely, it is a tacit admission of a gap in 451 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:14,920 our fundamental understanding of the universe. It's the government saying 452 00:21:15,279 --> 00:21:17,799 on the record, we see it, we recorded it, but 453 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:19,640 we can't explain it with our current science. 454 00:21:19,759 --> 00:21:21,720 Speaker 1: And notice what they didn't say. They didn't say it 455 00:21:21,759 --> 00:21:22,480 was US tech. 456 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:24,759 Speaker 2: In fact, they suggested some of it could be a 457 00:21:24,799 --> 00:21:27,319 threat from a foreign adversary, but they couldn't confirm it 458 00:21:27,759 --> 00:21:31,119 by process of elimination. The other category points to a 459 00:21:31,319 --> 00:21:34,599 non human intelligence, even if they are terrified to write 460 00:21:34,599 --> 00:21:35,279 those words down. 461 00:21:35,440 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: It validated the community in a huge way. It moved 462 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:41,960 the entire conversation from is it real to okay, it's real? Now? 463 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:42,359 What is it? 464 00:21:42,519 --> 00:21:43,240 Speaker 2: And who is it? 465 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:46,640 Speaker 1: Right? But while the US was dragging its feet for decades, 466 00:21:46,759 --> 00:21:49,000 other countries were way ahead of us. Let's look at 467 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:51,799 the global perspective. Our stack includes reports from Chile. 468 00:21:51,880 --> 00:21:55,279 Speaker 2: In Japan, Chili is the gold standard here. They are 469 00:21:55,279 --> 00:21:59,279 incredibly open about this. They have a government agency called SEAFE, 470 00:21:59,720 --> 00:22:02,119 the for the Study of Anomalous Aerial Phenomena. 471 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,160 Speaker 1: It's part of their Civil Aviation Department, like our FAA exactly. 472 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,319 Speaker 2: It's staffed by military officials, scientists, pilot's psychologists, and they've 473 00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:11,519 been operating openly since nineteen ninety seven. 474 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:15,200 Speaker 1: Why is Chile so chill about this pun intended? 475 00:22:15,319 --> 00:22:18,680 Speaker 2: It's cultural. The sources point out that South American cultures 476 00:22:18,720 --> 00:22:20,880 often have a different relationship with the sky and with 477 00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:23,279 the concept of non human visitors. Yeah, you have the 478 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:26,359 Nasca lions, you have Incan cosmology. There is a long 479 00:22:26,519 --> 00:22:30,759 history of beings of light interacting with humanity. 480 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,799 Speaker 1: So it's not viewed with the same existential dread or 481 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:35,400 ridicule that it is in the West. 482 00:22:35,599 --> 00:22:39,079 Speaker 2: Right, it's more integrated into their worldview as a possibility. 483 00:22:39,279 --> 00:22:41,680 Speaker 1: They had a massive case in twenty fourteen, right, one 484 00:22:41,759 --> 00:22:43,039 that made international news. 485 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:47,359 Speaker 2: Yes, a Chilean Navy helicopter flying along the coast. The crew, 486 00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:51,039 a very experienced pilot and technician, filmed an object for 487 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:52,920 nine minutes straight in broad daylights. 488 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,240 Speaker 1: So it's not a fuzzy nighttime video. 489 00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:56,839 Speaker 2: Not at all. They tracked it on their radar, it 490 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,920 was visible and infrared, and then the object ejected something, 491 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,200 a massive plume of some kind of gas or liquid. Now, 492 00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:09,119 they analyzed this for two years. They consulted with aftrophysicists, meteorologists, 493 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,799 foreign intelligence agencies. They ruled out everything, weather, balloon, drone, 494 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:15,880 space debris, everything. 495 00:23:15,599 --> 00:23:16,599 Speaker 1: And what was their conclusion. 496 00:23:16,680 --> 00:23:20,039 Speaker 2: Their conclusion was, we don't know. So they released it. 497 00:23:20,079 --> 00:23:22,039 They didn't hide it. They put the video and their 498 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,960 entire case file on YouTube and said, this is a UAP, 499 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:27,640 we don't know what it is. Here is all the data. 500 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:31,759 It's a level of transparency that is just unthinkable in 501 00:23:31,799 --> 00:23:32,559 the United States. 502 00:23:32,599 --> 00:23:35,839 Speaker 1: Compare that to Japan. Japan was historically the complete opposite. 503 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:36,799 They were very skeptical. 504 00:23:36,839 --> 00:23:40,160 Speaker 2: Total denial was the official policy for years. The Japanese 505 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:43,400 government stance was we don't see them, therefore they don't exist. 506 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,920 It was very rigid cultural denial. But that pivoted hard 507 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:50,279 in twenty twenty what change a meeting in Guam. The 508 00:23:50,359 --> 00:23:53,960 Japanese Defense Minister Taro Kono met with the US Defense 509 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,720 Secretary Mark esper What. We don't have the transcript of 510 00:23:56,720 --> 00:23:59,599 that meeting, obviously, of course not, but immediately after Kono 511 00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:02,680 returned to Tokyo and issues a brand new directive to 512 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:05,880 the Japanese Self Defense Forces. If you see a UAP 513 00:24:06,519 --> 00:24:11,400 record it report, it develop protocols for engagement, a complete 514 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:12,920 one hundred and eighty degree. 515 00:24:12,640 --> 00:24:16,079 Speaker 1: Turn that feels coordinated. It feels like the US whispered, Hey, 516 00:24:16,799 --> 00:24:19,200 something is coming. You need to get your house in order. 517 00:24:19,359 --> 00:24:21,359 We're about to start talking about this publicly. 518 00:24:21,640 --> 00:24:25,079 Speaker 2: It implies a global shift in protocol. It suggests that 519 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,680 behind the scenes, allies are sharing data and realizing this 520 00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:32,440 is a global phenomena, not just American folklore. And once 521 00:24:32,480 --> 00:24:35,519 that door cracked open in Japan, the testimony started flowing 522 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,720 like who you have Mamorusado, a former wing commander in 523 00:24:38,759 --> 00:24:41,880 their Air force, coming forward with stories of cigar shaped 524 00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,440 objects buzzing commercial airliners, of pilots losing control of their 525 00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,839 instruments when these things got. 526 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,039 Speaker 1: Close, which brings us full circle. We started with the 527 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,480 Japanese pilot over Alaska. I want to go back to 528 00:24:51,559 --> 00:24:54,480 JL sixteen twenty eight. We gave the interversion, but the 529 00:24:54,519 --> 00:24:57,279 details in these flight logs are just terrifying. I want 530 00:24:57,319 --> 00:24:59,519 to really get into what Captain Krauchi experienced. 531 00:25:00,039 --> 00:25:03,119 Speaker 2: It really is the most compelling cases in history because 532 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:05,960 of the caliber of the witnesses and the multi layered data. 533 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,519 Captain Trochi wasn't just a pilot. He was an X 534 00:25:08,559 --> 00:25:11,440 fighter pilot from the war. He knew what planes looked like, 535 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:12,599 he knew what stars looked like. 536 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:15,960 Speaker 1: So back to the cockpit, the mothership is there. Jochi 537 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,240 says it was shaped like a giant walnut or a 538 00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,960 sphere with a band around it, and he draws it. 539 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,640 We have his sketches in the source material and they 540 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:24,559 are eerie. 541 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,759 Speaker 2: The scale is what's hard to grasp. He said it 542 00:25:27,799 --> 00:25:31,160 was two aircraft carriers in size we were talking about 543 00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,640 a structure maybe a mile wide, hovering silently in front 544 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,359 of the seven forty seven. Imagine looking out your car 545 00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,599 window and seeing a floating city. 546 00:25:38,359 --> 00:25:41,279 Speaker 1: Block out the sun and the radar confirmation is key here. 547 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,000 It wasn't just the plane's onboard radar right. 548 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:47,599 Speaker 2: The FAA anchorage center picked it up a solid primary return. 549 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:50,839 The sheer size of the radar return was anomalous. They 550 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,440 asked a United Airlines slight that was nearby to try 551 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,000 and get a visual, but the object moved away before 552 00:25:56,039 --> 00:25:56,759 they could confirm. 553 00:25:56,960 --> 00:26:01,799 Speaker 1: Tarrochi was terrified. The transcript show he was doing evasive 554 00:26:01,839 --> 00:26:05,279 maneuvers three hundred and sixty degree turns, trying to shake 555 00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,680 this thing. It stuck to him like glue. Can you 556 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:11,319 imagine the panic you are in a seven forty seven, 557 00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:14,279 a heavy beast of a plane trying to dogfight a mothershit. 558 00:26:14,359 --> 00:26:17,000 Speaker 2: It's absurd. He's asking for a change in altitude, a 559 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:19,799 change in course, anything to get away from it. And 560 00:26:19,839 --> 00:26:22,519 the government's response after land it was just brutal. 561 00:26:22,799 --> 00:26:25,599 Speaker 1: After the meeting that never happened, Torochi was grounded. They 562 00:26:25,680 --> 00:26:29,279 humiliated him. They said he was chasing the planet Venus. 563 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,519 Speaker 2: Venus doesn't show up on military and civilian radar exactly. 564 00:26:32,839 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: He spent years working at desk job before being allowed 565 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,960 to fly again. It was a clear, unmistakable message to 566 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:41,440 other pilots, keep your mouth shut or your career is over. 567 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,359 Speaker 2: But John Callahan, the FA division chief who was in 568 00:26:44,359 --> 00:26:46,960 that CIA meeting, he didn't follow orders, did he. 569 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,039 Speaker 1: No. Callahan is the real hero of the story. When 570 00:26:50,039 --> 00:26:53,039 the CIA confiscated the materials, he knew something was wrong. 571 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,559 He managed to keep a duplicate set of the radar 572 00:26:55,599 --> 00:26:58,519 tapes and the printouts in his personal possession. He sat 573 00:26:58,559 --> 00:26:59,440 on them for decades. 574 00:26:59,599 --> 00:27:02,319 Speaker 2: He waited until he retired and his pension was safe. 575 00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,880 Speaker 1: If not for him, we wouldn't have the proof that 576 00:27:04,920 --> 00:27:07,480 the CIA intervened at that level. We wouldn't know about 577 00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,920 that meeting. It would just be another pilot's crazy story that. 578 00:27:10,839 --> 00:27:14,359 Speaker 2: Meeting took place in the Reagan administration. It implies that 579 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,759 the cover up goes to the absolute top and has 580 00:27:16,799 --> 00:27:17,880 for a very long time. 581 00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:22,559 Speaker 1: It does, and the location Alaska is significant. JL sixteen 582 00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:26,799 twenty eight happened near what researchers call the Alaska Triangle. 583 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,519 Speaker 2: I've heard of the Bermuda Triangle. What's the Alaska Triangle. 584 00:27:29,599 --> 00:27:34,160 Speaker 1: It's a vast remote area between Anchorage Juneo and Burrow. 585 00:27:34,839 --> 00:27:37,640 It has the highest rate of missing persons and unexplained 586 00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,960 aircraft disappearances in the world per capita. 587 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 2: It's wild, rugged terrain. If something goes down there, you 588 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:43,839 might never find it. 589 00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:45,960 Speaker 1: And right in the center of this triangle of high 590 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,279 strangeness is a specific location, Mount Hayes. 591 00:27:49,599 --> 00:27:51,960 Speaker 2: Mount Hayes. This brings us to the weirdest part of 592 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,240 our stack of sources, Project Stargate. This is where we 593 00:27:55,319 --> 00:27:57,920 leave the nuts and bolts of radar returns and get 594 00:27:57,920 --> 00:27:58,799 into the strange. 595 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:02,480 Speaker 1: This is where we cross from hardware into high strangeness, 596 00:28:02,519 --> 00:28:05,200 as you call it. Project star Date was a real 597 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:07,599 CIA program initiated during the Cold War. 598 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,640 Speaker 2: It was they were terrified the Soviets were using psychic 599 00:28:11,680 --> 00:28:14,599 powers for espionage, so naturally we had to start our 600 00:28:14,599 --> 00:28:16,559 own program. They called it remote. 601 00:28:16,279 --> 00:28:20,039 Speaker 1: Viewing Psychic Spies. It sounds ridiculous, It sounds like something 602 00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:21,279 from a bad eighties movie. 603 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,720 Speaker 2: It does, but the CIA poured millions of dollars into it. 604 00:28:24,759 --> 00:28:28,480 At Stanford Research Institute, they used a very specific protocol 605 00:28:28,559 --> 00:28:32,079 called Coordinate Remote Viewing giving a person a set of 606 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:35,079 GPS coordinates and asking what do you see there? 607 00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:36,480 Speaker 1: And they had some success with it. 608 00:28:36,680 --> 00:28:40,039 Speaker 2: They were surprisingly successful in locating down Soviet bombers and 609 00:28:40,119 --> 00:28:43,920 hidden submarines. The program ran for over twenty years. 610 00:28:43,799 --> 00:28:45,839 Speaker 1: And one of their star viewers was a man named 611 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:46,599 Pat Price. 612 00:28:47,119 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 2: Pat Price was a former police commissioner from Burbank, California. 613 00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,319 A very no nonsense, grounded guy, he was known for 614 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:57,799 incredible accuracy and for being able to pull specific technical 615 00:28:57,799 --> 00:28:59,160 details out of his viewings. 616 00:28:59,279 --> 00:29:01,960 Speaker 1: So one day, his handlers give him the coordinates for 617 00:29:02,079 --> 00:29:04,039 Mount Hayes, Alaska. 618 00:29:03,480 --> 00:29:05,240 Speaker 2: Right in the middle of the Alaska Triangle. 619 00:29:05,319 --> 00:29:06,119 Speaker 1: What did he see? 620 00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,079 Speaker 2: He described an underground facility deep inside the mountain. He 621 00:29:10,119 --> 00:29:15,839 saw huge computer banks, strange tunnels, electromagnetic equipment he didn't recognize. 622 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:17,319 But then he described the occupants. 623 00:29:17,359 --> 00:29:19,759 Speaker 1: He didn't see Russians or Chinese soldiers. 624 00:29:19,839 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 2: He saw entities that looked human but weren't. He described 625 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,799 them as thought transferring, communicating telepathically, and he saw US 626 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,000 military personnel working alongside them. 627 00:29:30,079 --> 00:29:33,680 Speaker 1: Okay, that is the nightmare scenario. Collusion. It's not an invasion, 628 00:29:33,720 --> 00:29:36,920 it's a partnership. It implies that we aren't just victims 629 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,039 of these sightings, we are active participants in some kind 630 00:29:40,039 --> 00:29:41,279 of secret program. 631 00:29:41,440 --> 00:29:44,559 Speaker 2: That was Price's interpretation. He believed it was a major 632 00:29:44,599 --> 00:29:48,640 base for extraterrestrial biological entities who were monitoring the planet, 633 00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:51,519 and that parts of our government were complicit. 634 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,799 Speaker 1: And pat Price what happened to him after this viewing, This. 635 00:29:54,720 --> 00:29:57,359 Speaker 2: Is where the story gets very dark. He went to 636 00:29:57,440 --> 00:30:00,759 Las Vegas shortly after this. He checked into the Zardas's hotel. 637 00:30:01,319 --> 00:30:03,359 In the lobby, he told a friend he felt someone 638 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:06,920 brush past him a bump. Moments later, he goes into 639 00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,640 cardiac arrest and dies extremely No official autopsy was ever performed. 640 00:30:11,839 --> 00:30:15,559 His body was cremated immediately. The rumor in the intelligence community, 641 00:30:15,759 --> 00:30:18,079 and this is in the source notes from other Stargate viewers, 642 00:30:18,319 --> 00:30:21,759 is that he was assassinated. He saw too much. He 643 00:30:21,799 --> 00:30:23,240 looked where he wasn't supposed to look. 644 00:30:23,319 --> 00:30:27,119 Speaker 1: If it's the pattern, Tarrochi is silenced, Lazarre is rated 645 00:30:27,160 --> 00:30:30,759 and erased, Price is removed. The closer you get to 646 00:30:30,799 --> 00:30:33,119 the core truth, the more dangerous it becomes. 647 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,119 Speaker 2: That seems to be the one consistent rule in this 648 00:30:35,200 --> 00:30:38,000 whole field. The data is protected by a layer of 649 00:30:38,039 --> 00:30:38,960 fear so. 650 00:30:38,920 --> 00:30:41,680 Speaker 1: Where does that leave us today? We've pulled on threads 651 00:30:41,799 --> 00:30:44,799 ranging from a seven forty seven cockpit over Alaska to 652 00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:48,000 a psychic spy in a Vegas hotel. We've looked at 653 00:30:48,039 --> 00:30:51,000 videos elidated by the Pentagon and official reports that admit 654 00:30:51,079 --> 00:30:52,200 we need new physics. 655 00:30:52,319 --> 00:30:53,960 Speaker 2: If you step back and look at the mosaic that 656 00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:57,319 all these threads create, the conclusion is, I think undeniable. 657 00:30:57,599 --> 00:31:00,160 We were in a transition period, the era of if 658 00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,720 it's all swamp gas and easy denial is dead, it's over. 659 00:31:03,799 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: We are now in the era of we know it's real, 660 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,400 but we are terrified to tell you what it is. 661 00:31:08,599 --> 00:31:11,759 Speaker 2: Well, perhaps we are carefully managing how we tell you 662 00:31:11,799 --> 00:31:13,440 what it is. The narrative is. 663 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:17,359 Speaker 1: Being controlled, and the future seems to be accelerating towards something. 664 00:31:17,839 --> 00:31:20,720 We have a NASA's chief scientist Ellen Stofon on the 665 00:31:20,759 --> 00:31:24,559 record saying we will have strong indications of life within 666 00:31:24,599 --> 00:31:28,319 a decade and definitive evidence in twenty to thirty years. 667 00:31:28,559 --> 00:31:30,920 Speaker 2: You have the creation of the Space Force, you have 668 00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:33,839 all this talk of a secret space program. It feels 669 00:31:33,839 --> 00:31:38,240 like we are being slowly acclaimed, prepped for a new reality. 670 00:31:38,359 --> 00:31:40,599 What kind of reality A reality where we are not 671 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,319 the APEX predators, a reality where we are part of 672 00:31:43,359 --> 00:31:46,759 a larger, more complex cosmic ecosystem, a. 673 00:31:46,759 --> 00:31:49,880 Speaker 1: Star Trek future, or maybe Independence Day, depending on who 674 00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:51,200 you ask, hopefully the former. 675 00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 2: But the technology is the absolute key to all of. 676 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:56,079 Speaker 1: This, and I want to leave our listeners with a 677 00:31:56,079 --> 00:31:58,400 final thought on that. Let's go back to Bob Azar's reactor. 678 00:31:58,559 --> 00:32:02,240 The technology that can warp groundvity and provide limitless clean energy. 679 00:32:02,039 --> 00:32:04,799 Speaker 2: The technology that could solve climate change, the technology that 680 00:32:04,839 --> 00:32:08,720 could end poverty, the technology that could give us the stars. 681 00:32:09,279 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 1: Exactly. Let's assume for a second it's real if the 682 00:32:12,839 --> 00:32:16,920 US government or some shadowy group actually possesses this technology, 683 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,519 if it's sitting in a hangar at S four right now, 684 00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:23,279 gathering dust, are they justified in keeping it secret? 685 00:32:23,640 --> 00:32:26,799 Speaker 2: It's the ultimate trolley problem, isn't it. Do you release 686 00:32:26,839 --> 00:32:30,319 it and crash the global economy, causing chaos, unemployment, and 687 00:32:30,359 --> 00:32:34,920 potentially resource wars over the transition itself, or do you 688 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:37,839 keep it secret and let the planet burn while withholding 689 00:32:37,839 --> 00:32:39,640 the greatest discovery in human history? 690 00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: Is it an act of protection or is it the 691 00:32:43,039 --> 00:32:45,279 greatest crime against humanity ever committed? 692 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:48,119 Speaker 2: That is the question, and I honestly don't think there's 693 00:32:48,119 --> 00:32:49,079 an easy answer to it. 694 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:51,440 Speaker 1: We want to know what you think. Is withholding that 695 00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,000 technology justified to prevent a global collapse or is it 696 00:32:55,039 --> 00:32:57,480 a crime? Thanks for pulling these threads with us today. 697 00:32:57,680 --> 00:32:59,480 Leave your answer in the comments. We'll see you next 698 00:32:59,519 --> 00:33:00,920 time on thrilling Threads.