Speaker 1: I want you to close your eyes for a second, seriously,
just for a moment. Picture this. It's November seventeenth, nineteen
eighty six. You are Captain Kenjo Tarocchi. You aren't a
ricky pilot. You are a seasoned veteran with over ten
thousand hours in the air, top of his field exactly.
You're commanding a massive japan Airlines seven four to seven
cargo freighter Flight sixteen twenty eight. You're cruising over the
icy darkness of Alaska on what pilots call the milk
run from Paris to Tokyo. It's quiet, routine, totally routine.
The drone of the engines is the only sound you hear.
It's boring until.
Speaker 2: It isn't, and it really really isn't.
Speaker 1: You look at the port side window. At first, it's
just lights, two of them, strange amber colored square lights.
But here's the thing. They are pacing you, which is
the first impossibility.
Speaker 2: They're moving with a precision that makes your stomach turn
because planes, you know, planes don't move like that. They're
defying inertia. And then, just as your brain tries to
categorize them as military jets or maybe a reflection, they vanish.
Speaker 1: But they don't just leave, do they. That would be
too easy. No, they're replaced. Something emerges from the darkness
that your brain just refuses to process. It's a silhouette
so massive it blocks out the.
Speaker 2: Stars, and he described it as the size of what
was it.
Speaker 1: Two aircraft carriers, a mothership. It floods your cockpit with
so much light you can physically feel the heat on
your skin.
Speaker 2: This isn't just a visual sighting anymore. This is a
physical experience.
Speaker 1: You check the radar, it's there. Ground Control and anchorage
they see it too. The US military at Norat, they
see it. This is happening. You aren't crazy.
Speaker 2: All the data is corroborating what his eyes are telling him.
Speaker 1: So you land, you're shaking. You report it to the FAA.
You assume this is the biggest event in aviation history.
And then a few weeks later, a specialized team from
Washington flies in. They take your flight data recorders, they
take the radar tapes, all the evidence. They look your
feet and the FAA division chief in the eye and
a CIA agent says five words that effective and your career.
This meeting never happened.
Speaker 2: It sounds like a screenplay. It sounds like the cold
open to the X file. Yeah, but what you just
described is a documented historical event. It is, and it
perfectly frames the tension of what we are doing today.
It is the friction between what is seen, what is
undeniably physically real, and the official machinery designed to erase it.
Speaker 1: Welcome to thrilling threads. I am your host, and today
we are pulling on the heaviest thread of them all.
We are talking about disclosure, a loaded word, a very
loaded word, And I want to be clear right off
the bat. We are not sitting here looking at grainy
polaroids from the nineteen fifties that look like a frisbee
thrown in a park.
Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't be here if we were. We were
past that point in the conversation exactly.
Speaker 1: We are looking at a stack of sources that is
frankly heavy. I'm holding the twenty twenty one Preliminary Assessment
from the Office of the Director of National Intelligence right here.
Speaker 2: That's the big one.
Speaker 1: We've got declassified cockpit videos released by the Pentagon self.
We have flight logs, radar data, and transcripts from the
CIA's Project Stargate.
Speaker 2: Some really deep declassified stuff.
Speaker 1: The mission today is to sift through this noise and
find the signal. We're going to look at how the
narrative has shifted from swamp gas and weather balloons to
national security threat, and.
Speaker 2: More importantly, we need to understand the implications of that shift,
because the sources we have today aren't just telling us
that something is happening. They are giving us clues about
what is happening.
Speaker 1: You're talking about the technology.
Speaker 2: We're talking about propulsion physics that shouldn't exist. We're talking
about geopolitical maneuvering between the US, Japan, and even Chili
of all places.
Speaker 1: We have a lot to get through. We're going to
break down those famous Navy videos the tic TAC frame
by frame.
Speaker 2: We have to it's foundational.
Speaker 1: We're going to look at the alien reactor theory that
some say threatens the entire global economy, and we're going
to revisit that Alaska incident and connect it to a
secret base allegedly hidden inside a mountain.
Speaker 2: It's a wild ride, but everything we discuss is anchored
in the documents in front of us. It is going
to require us to keep an open mind, but also
critical one.
Speaker 1: So let's get into it. Section one, the Pentagon pivot.
Speaker 2: This is the moment the dam broke. This is where
modern history on this topic changed.
Speaker 1: It really is. For decades, the vibe from the government
was deny, deny. But then December twenty seventeen hits. I
remember opening New York Times, I mean the paper of record,
not some tabloid, and seeing the headline glowing auras.
Speaker 2: And black money on the front page.
Speaker 1: On the front page. That didn't feel real.
Speaker 2: That article changed everything, and it didn't happen by accident.
You have to understand, it was engineered. We have to
talk about Louis Alazando. You cannot tell this story without
understanding who he is and what he risked.
Speaker 1: Hey, Alizondo is such a fascinating character in this narrative.
He wasn't a UFO hunter and a tinfoil had He
wasn't a guy with a blog in his basement.
Speaker 2: No. No, he was a career counterintelligence officer, high.
Speaker 1: Level, extremely high level. He and special operations in Afghanistan
and the Middle East. This is a serious person, and.
Speaker 2: He was running a program inside the Pentagon called a TIP,
the Advanced Aerospace Threat Identification Program now pauls on that
name for a second aerospace threat.
Speaker 1: Not anomalous or unidentified threat.
Speaker 2: That is a very specific choice of words. It implies
they weren't looking for little green men or studying exobiology
that were looking for technology that could hurt us. They
were looking at capabilities that outmatched our own.
Speaker 1: But Eli Zander got frustrated, right, He's seeing this incredible data,
these reports from pilots, I mean, our best pilots, and
the bureaucracy is stonewalling him.
Speaker 2: He felt the information was being stovepipe kept in these
little silos so no one could see the big picture.
He saw videos and radar data that showed US airspace,
sensitive military airspace was being penetrated with impunity.
Speaker 1: And no one seemed to care.
Speaker 2: Or they cared, but the stigma was so great that
nobody at the top wanted to touch it. He tried
to push it up the chain of command, and he
just hit this wall of secrecy and frankly ridicule.
Speaker 1: So what did he do.
Speaker 2: He did the only thing a man of conscience could do.
He resigned, and his resignation letter to then Secretary of
Defense James Mattis, is in our stack here it's scathing.
He essentially says, we are ignoring a clear and present
reality and we are doing so at our own peril.
Speaker 1: So he leaves the Pentagon, but he doesn't go quietly
into the night. He teams up with Chris Mellin, another insider,
a huge insider. Chris Mellon was the Deputy Assistant Secretary
of Defense for Intelligence under two administrations. So you have
two very high level, credible people who decide the only
way to get this out is to go public.
Speaker 2: And they don't go to a UFO conference. They go
to Leslie Keene.
Speaker 1: Leslie Keen is the journalist who wrote the book on this. Literally,
she's serious, people, Her uncle was the governor of New
Jersey and head of the nine to eleven Commission. She
isn't chasing clicks.
Speaker 2: She's a bulldog for facts. She teamed up with Ralph
Blumenthal and Helene Cooper at the Times, and together they
facilitated the release of three videos that have now become
iconic Tictac.
Speaker 1: Gimbal and Go Fast, the Unholy Trinity of UAP videos,
that's a.
Speaker 2: Good way to put it. And they were released by
the government through the proper channels. This wasn't a leak.
Speaker 1: Let's drill down into the tic TAC video, because out
of everything in our sources, this one seems to be
the one that keeps physicists up at night. I want
to really understand why this specific encounter is so damn important.
Speaker 2: Okay, So the tic Tac incident occurred in November two
thousand and four off the coast of San Diego, involving
the USS Nimitz Carrier Strike Group.
Speaker 1: So a whole fleet of ships.
Speaker 2: A whole fleet. The primary witnesses we hear from are
Commander David Fraver and Lieutenant Commander Alex Dietrich. These are
top gun graduates. They are the cream of the crop
trained observers.
Speaker 1: Fraver is the squadron commander. This is the guy you
trust with a forty million dollar F eighteen jet. He's
not prone to flights of fancy or misidentifying a seagull exactly.
Speaker 2: So, they are on a routine training mission and they
get vectored by the command ship, the USS Princeton, to
intercept a contact. Now here's the first critical data point.
The Princeton had been tracking these objects for days.
Speaker 1: For days, I thought it was just this one encounter.
Speaker 2: No, that's the part that often gets missed. The operators
on the Princeton using the Spy one radar, we're seeing
fleets of these things.
Speaker 1: And the Spy one is no joke. That's the most
advanced naval radar system in the world at the time.
It can track a golf ball for miles away.
Speaker 2: It is the heart of the US Navy's air defense system.
It wasn't a glitch. The radar operators were seeing these
objects drop from eighty thousand feet to sea level in
less than a second.
Speaker 1: Okay, stop right there, let's pause and really unpack the
physics of that eighty thousand feet to zero. Just think
about that drop.
Speaker 2: It's hard to even conceptualize. Yeah, that is a vertical
drop of over fifteen miles to cover that distance in
roughly point seven eight seconds, which is what the radar
data suggests. You were talking about velocities in the range
of Mark twenty to Mark sixty, tens.
Speaker 1: Of thousands of miles per hour, straight down.
Speaker 2: Straight down, and then it's stuck. Got a dime instantly.
And that is the problem. Is not the speed that
kills you. It's the sudden stop. It's the deceleration. If
a human pilot were inside a craft that did that,
the G forces, the gravitational force equivalent would be in
the thousands.
Speaker 1: Humans pass out at what nine g's with a special
suit on.
Speaker 2: Right, at nine g's with a G suit, you can
function for a little bit. At hundreds of g's. A
human body doesn't just pass out. It liquefies. You would
be turned into biological soup inside.
Speaker 1: The cockpit and the plane itself forget it.
Speaker 2: The airframe would disintegrate, wings would snap, metal would buckle.
Material science as we know it cannot survive those forces.
It's a non survivable event for both pilot and machine.
Speaker 1: But Frawer gets eyes on this thing. He and d
Trick they fly out and they see it down near
the water. He describes it as a tic.
Speaker 2: Tac about forty feet long, white smooth, no wings, no tail,
no rivets, no cockpit, and crucially no exhaust, no visible
means of propulsion.
Speaker 1: That's the part that gets me, he said. The water
under it was churning like it was boiling, but the
object itself had no visible propulsion, no jet wash, no
rotor down wash, just hovering erratically.
Speaker 2: And when fraverer tries to engage it. He decides to
dive down to cut it off. The object recognizes.
Speaker 1: Him, It reacts to him.
Speaker 2: It maneuvers around him. It mirrors his movement, but on
the vertical axis. This suggests intelligent control. It isn't a
drone on a pre programmed path. It is reacting to
him in real time. And then it accelerates and vanishes
like a bullet.
Speaker 1: From a gun. He said, just gone, and here is
the kicker from the source notes that just gives me goosebumps.
The object reappears on the Princeton's radar seconds later at
the CAAP.
Speaker 2: Point, the combat air Patrol rally point.
Speaker 1: Which is sixty miles.
Speaker 2: Away, and that detail is chilling. The CAAP point is
a predetermined, confidential coordinate known only to the pilots and
the command ship. It's their emergency rally point.
Speaker 1: So this thing knew where they were going before they did.
Speaker 2: It's suggested it had access to their data link, or
it could predict their movements with one hundred percent accuracy.
That is a level of technological and intelligent superiority that
is terrifying to a military commander.
Speaker 1: So Fraber goes back to the ship totally stunned. Then
you have Lieutenant Chad Underwood. He goes up next and
he's the one who actually records the FLR video. We've
all seen.
Speaker 2: The FLR is the forward looking Infrared camera. It detects
heat signatures. If you are flying a jet, you are
a giant heat source. Your engines are spewing hot gas.
Speaker 1: And on the video you can hear the pilots talking.
Speaker 2: You hear them saying, look at that thing. It's rotating
under its switches between white hot and black hot modes
on the camera. The object is cold. It has no
thermal plume, which makes no sense. It makes zero sense
by all known laws of thermodynamics, an object moving at
supersonic speeds through the atmosphere should be glowing with friction heat.
It isn't. It's like the laws of physics don't apply
to it.
Speaker 1: This leads us to the five observables. This is the
framework the intelligence community and guys like Elizondo used to
categorize these things. Walk us through them, because this is
the checklist for impossible.
Speaker 2: Sure. These were popularized by Elizondo to help people, especially
on Capitol Hill, understand what we're looking at number one,
anti gravity.
Speaker 1: Lift, no wings, no visible propulsion, Yet it flies. It
defies the requirement for aerodynamic list.
Speaker 2: To instantaneous acceleration zero to mock twenty in a blink.
Inertia doesn't seem to apply to it.
Speaker 1: It doesn't have to build up speed. It's just there.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Three hypersonic velocity without signatures, moving incredibly fast, without
a sonic boom, without a heat trail, without distrobing the air.
Usually if you break the sound barrier, you shatter windows
on the ground. These things are silent. Number four four
low observability, or as some call it, cloaking. They can
become invisible to radar, invisible to the naked eye, or both.
Speaker 1: And the fifth one is the real mind bender.
Speaker 2: Five trans medium travel.
Speaker 1: Trans medium that means it operates in different environments.
Speaker 2: Exactly. We have planes that fly in the air, we
have submarines that go underwater. We have rockets for space.
This object and others like it do all three seamlessly.
Speaker 1: It goes from space, which is a vacuum, to air,
which is our atmosphere, to water, which is a dense.
Speaker 2: Liquid, without changing shape, shedding parts, or even slowing down.
We have reports of these things being tracked on radar
going into the ocean at thousands of miles per hour.
Speaker 1: We don't have that. I mean, do we have anything
even remotely close to that.
Speaker 2: We absolutely don't have that. We struggle to make a
plane that can land on a carrier deck without crashing
half the time, let alone one that can dive underwater
and keep going at Mack three. It's a material science
and propulsion problem we haven't even begun to.
Speaker 1: Solve, and the sources are pretty clear. The Chinese don't
have that. The Russians don't have that.
Speaker 2: Think about it, logically, if Russia or China had technology
that could make our carrier groups look like sitting ducks,
we would be making Russian or Chinese right now.
Speaker 1: The Cold War would have ended very differently.
Speaker 2: The geopolitical balance of power would have shifted overnight. They
wouldn't be building conventional jets. They would be dominating the
globe with this tech. The fact that they haven't suggest
this technology belongs to.
Speaker 1: Someone else, someone else, that's the cliffhanger. That's the phrase
that opens the door to everything. We are afraid to say.
But to understand the technology, or at least the theory
of it. We have to go back. We have to
leave the sanitized halls of the Pentagon and go to.
Speaker 2: The desert back in time.
Speaker 1: We need to talk about the man who basically invented
the modern Area fifty one mythos. We need to talk
about Bob Blazar.
Speaker 2: Ah, Bob Blazar. You cannot have a conversation about UAPs
without addressing the Lazar element. He is the most controversial
figure in this entire stack of sources, but his story
has remained remarkably consistent since nineteen eighty nine.
Speaker 1: The sources take us back to May fifteenth, nineteen eighty nine,
Las Vegas. George Knapp, an investigative journalist, is interviewing a
silhouette on TV. They call him Dennis.
Speaker 2: Dennis was Lazarre, hiding his identity because he was terrified
for his life. He claimed to be a physicist who
was hired to work at a facility called S four.
Speaker 1: And S four is an Area fifty one right, it's
near it, he said.
Speaker 2: S four was built into the side of a mountain
just south of the main Groom Lake facility, what we
all call Area fifty one. The hangers were disguised to
look like the desert landscape.
Speaker 1: And his job wasn't to look at lights in the sky.
It was hands on. He claims he touched the craft.
Speaker 2: It was reverse engineering that was his task. He claimed
there were nine distinct non terrestrial craft and hangers at
S four nine, all different shapes. He worked on one
called the Sport model.
Speaker 1: This is where the physics gets really specific. Lazarre didn't
just say it's magic or it's alien. He described a
propulsion system based on an element that at the time
didn't exist on our periodic.
Speaker 2: Table, element one fifteen.
Speaker 1: Which is now known as moscovium.
Speaker 2: Right at the time in eighty nine, element one fifteen
was purely theoretical. It was a blank spot on the chart.
We have since synthesized it in a lab, but our
version is incredibly unstable and decays in milliseconds.
Speaker 1: But Lazarre clammed the version they had with stable. He
said this element was the fuel for a reactor, the
alien reactor.
Speaker 2: It sounds like a bad movie title, but let's treat
his description seriously for a second, because it's fascinating.
Speaker 1: Okay, so how did he say it worked.
Speaker 2: He described a device about the size of a basketball,
a hemisphere inside this stable element one point fifteen was
bombarded with particles and in its decay chain it produced antimatter.
The antimatter would then annihilate with matter, creating a huge
energy reaction.
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a lot of physics. What's the output.
Speaker 2: The output wasn't heat or thrust. It was a gravitational wave.
Speaker 1: And this is the key concept. It didn't burn fuel
to push air out the back like a jet. It
created its own gravity exactly.
Speaker 2: It had three gravity amplifiers or emitters on the bottom
of the craft. By focusing and amplifying these gravity waves,
it could distort space.
Speaker 1: Time, so it's not flying through the air, it's pulling.
Speaker 2: Its destiny nation towards it. Imagine a bowling ball on
a mattress. It curves the mattress right, and if you
put a marble nearby, it rolls toward the bowling ball.
Lazarre said, this reactor could create that bowling ball effect
in front of the ship. Instead of moving the ship
through space, it pulled space towards the ship.
Speaker 1: My brain just broke a little bit.
Speaker 2: It's mind bending, but it explains the five observables we
just talked about. If you are inside a bubble of
warped space time. You don't feel g forces because you're
technically not moving. You don't create a sonic boom because
the air moves around the bubble, not the craft. It's
an elegant, if unbelievable solution to all the physics problems.
Speaker 1: It fits the data from the tic TAC perfectly. It's
almost eerie how well his nineteen eighty nine description matches
the two thousand and four video evidence. But here is
the part that really hits me. In the notes, the
part that has nothing to do with physics, Lazarre talked
about the economic implications.
Speaker 2: This is the why heide question. People always ask, why
would the government keep this secret? Well, if you have
a reactor the size of a basketball that produces limitless
clean energy from a gram of fuel, what happens to exon,
what happens to the power grid, what happens to the
petro dollar.
Speaker 1: The entire world economy would go end on end. That
was his direct quote.
Speaker 2: It's a complete and total economic reset. If energy is
free or close to it, the cost of everything drops
to near zero, transportation, manufacturing, heating your home. It's a
utopia in theory, but it's also absolute chaos.
Speaker 1: In practice, wars are fought over oil. Entire national economies
like Russia and Saudi Arabia are based on it. Currencies
are pegged to energy. If you release this technology, you
crash the current system. You bankrupt the most powerful corporations
and nations on Earth overnight.
Speaker 2: So the secrecy isn't just about we don't want to
scare the public with aliens. It's about protecting the global
economic status quo. It's about money and power.
Speaker 1: And look at what happened to Lazarre for speaking out.
The government didn't just ignore him, they tried to erase him.
Speaker 2: He claims his birth records, his employment records at Los
Almost National Labs, his education records from MIT and Caltech
all wiped. It was like he never existed. He became
a ghost.
Speaker 1: But they couldn't wipe the people who knew him. His
former colleagues at Los Alamost remembered him. There were phone books.
Speaker 2: With his name in them, and he was raided, constantly harassed.
Even recently, the FBI raided his scientific supply business in Michigan.
Speaker 1: That raid happened during the filming of the Jeremy Corbell
documentary in twenty eighteen. That's recent history. It suggests they
are still afraid of what he might have. They were
looking for a piece of the element he allegedly smuggled out.
Speaker 2: It does it. It contrasts so sharply with the environment today.
Lazarre was the unauthorized leak and he was punished, hunted.
Elizondo was the authorized protest and he is a media
darling testifying before Congress. The landscape is totally shifted.
Speaker 1: Which brings us to the official acknowledgment. The government finally
had to show its cards. Section three. The twenty twenty
one watershed moment, the OD and I report.
Speaker 2: This was a huge moment. This was a mandate from Congress.
The Senate Intelligence Committee, led by Marco Rubio at the time,
effectively said, we are tired of the secrets. We are
tired of our pilots being afraid to report things. We
want to know what you know, put it on paper.
Speaker 1: So they released this nine page preliminary assessment. They looked
at one hundred and forty four incidents reported by military
personnel between twenty four and twenty twenty one, and I
want to highlight the number of cases they solved one
one out of one hundred and forty four military encounters.
They confidently identified one deflating balloon, which.
Speaker 2: Is almost comical. It leaves one hundred and forty three
cases in that we don't know pile, but the language
they use to describe that pile is fascinating.
Speaker 1: They created these categories airborne clutter, natural phenomena, foreign adversary systems,
US developmental.
Speaker 2: Programs, and then the other bin.
Speaker 1: That other bin is doing a lot of heavy lifting.
It's the scariest bin in the whole report.
Speaker 2: It is because the report explicitly states that for the
objects in the other category, and I'm quoting here, we
may require additional scientific knowledge to explain them.
Speaker 1: Additional scientific knowledge. That is a polite, bureaucratic, Pentagon speak
way of saying our physics textbooks are broken.
Speaker 2: Socisely, it is a tacit admission of a gap in
our fundamental understanding of the universe. It's the government saying
on the record, we see it, we recorded it, but
we can't explain it with our current science.
Speaker 1: And notice what they didn't say. They didn't say it
was US tech.
Speaker 2: In fact, they suggested some of it could be a
threat from a foreign adversary, but they couldn't confirm it
by process of elimination. The other category points to a
non human intelligence, even if they are terrified to write
those words down.
Speaker 1: It validated the community in a huge way. It moved
the entire conversation from is it real to okay, it's real? Now?
What is it?
Speaker 2: And who is it?
Speaker 1: Right? But while the US was dragging its feet for decades,
other countries were way ahead of us. Let's look at
the global perspective. Our stack includes reports from Chile.
Speaker 2: In Japan, Chili is the gold standard here. They are
incredibly open about this. They have a government agency called SEAFE,
the for the Study of Anomalous Aerial Phenomena.
Speaker 1: It's part of their Civil Aviation Department, like our FAA exactly.
Speaker 2: It's staffed by military officials, scientists, pilot's psychologists, and they've
been operating openly since nineteen ninety seven.
Speaker 1: Why is Chile so chill about this pun intended?
Speaker 2: It's cultural. The sources point out that South American cultures
often have a different relationship with the sky and with
the concept of non human visitors. Yeah, you have the
Nasca lions, you have Incan cosmology. There is a long
history of beings of light interacting with humanity.
Speaker 1: So it's not viewed with the same existential dread or
ridicule that it is in the West.
Speaker 2: Right, it's more integrated into their worldview as a possibility.
Speaker 1: They had a massive case in twenty fourteen, right, one
that made international news.
Speaker 2: Yes, a Chilean Navy helicopter flying along the coast. The crew,
a very experienced pilot and technician, filmed an object for
nine minutes straight in broad daylights.
Speaker 1: So it's not a fuzzy nighttime video.
Speaker 2: Not at all. They tracked it on their radar, it
was visible and infrared, and then the object ejected something,
a massive plume of some kind of gas or liquid. Now,
they analyzed this for two years. They consulted with aftrophysicists, meteorologists,
foreign intelligence agencies. They ruled out everything, weather, balloon, drone,
space debris, everything.
Speaker 1: And what was their conclusion.
Speaker 2: Their conclusion was, we don't know. So they released it.
They didn't hide it. They put the video and their
entire case file on YouTube and said, this is a UAP,
we don't know what it is. Here is all the data.
It's a level of transparency that is just unthinkable in
the United States.
Speaker 1: Compare that to Japan. Japan was historically the complete opposite.
They were very skeptical.
Speaker 2: Total denial was the official policy for years. The Japanese
government stance was we don't see them, therefore they don't exist.
It was very rigid cultural denial. But that pivoted hard
in twenty twenty what change a meeting in Guam. The
Japanese Defense Minister Taro Kono met with the US Defense
Secretary Mark esper What. We don't have the transcript of
that meeting, obviously, of course not, but immediately after Kono
returned to Tokyo and issues a brand new directive to
the Japanese Self Defense Forces. If you see a UAP
record it report, it develop protocols for engagement, a complete
one hundred and eighty degree.
Speaker 1: Turn that feels coordinated. It feels like the US whispered, Hey,
something is coming. You need to get your house in order.
We're about to start talking about this publicly.
Speaker 2: It implies a global shift in protocol. It suggests that
behind the scenes, allies are sharing data and realizing this
is a global phenomena, not just American folklore. And once
that door cracked open in Japan, the testimony started flowing
like who you have Mamorusado, a former wing commander in
their Air force, coming forward with stories of cigar shaped
objects buzzing commercial airliners, of pilots losing control of their
instruments when these things got.
Speaker 1: Close, which brings us full circle. We started with the
Japanese pilot over Alaska. I want to go back to
JL sixteen twenty eight. We gave the interversion, but the
details in these flight logs are just terrifying. I want
to really get into what Captain Krauchi experienced.
Speaker 2: It really is the most compelling cases in history because
of the caliber of the witnesses and the multi layered data.
Captain Trochi wasn't just a pilot. He was an X
fighter pilot from the war. He knew what planes looked like,
he knew what stars looked like.
Speaker 1: So back to the cockpit, the mothership is there. Jochi
says it was shaped like a giant walnut or a
sphere with a band around it, and he draws it.
We have his sketches in the source material and they
are eerie.
Speaker 2: The scale is what's hard to grasp. He said it
was two aircraft carriers in size we were talking about
a structure maybe a mile wide, hovering silently in front
of the seven forty seven. Imagine looking out your car
window and seeing a floating city.
Speaker 1: Block out the sun and the radar confirmation is key here.
It wasn't just the plane's onboard radar right.
Speaker 2: The FAA anchorage center picked it up a solid primary return.
The sheer size of the radar return was anomalous. They
asked a United Airlines slight that was nearby to try
and get a visual, but the object moved away before
they could confirm.
Speaker 1: Tarrochi was terrified. The transcript show he was doing evasive
maneuvers three hundred and sixty degree turns, trying to shake
this thing. It stuck to him like glue. Can you
imagine the panic you are in a seven forty seven,
a heavy beast of a plane trying to dogfight a mothershit.
Speaker 2: It's absurd. He's asking for a change in altitude, a
change in course, anything to get away from it. And
the government's response after land it was just brutal.
Speaker 1: After the meeting that never happened, Torochi was grounded. They
humiliated him. They said he was chasing the planet Venus.
Speaker 2: Venus doesn't show up on military and civilian radar exactly.
Speaker 1: He spent years working at desk job before being allowed
to fly again. It was a clear, unmistakable message to
other pilots, keep your mouth shut or your career is over.
Speaker 2: But John Callahan, the FA division chief who was in
that CIA meeting, he didn't follow orders, did he.
Speaker 1: No. Callahan is the real hero of the story. When
the CIA confiscated the materials, he knew something was wrong.
He managed to keep a duplicate set of the radar
tapes and the printouts in his personal possession. He sat
on them for decades.
Speaker 2: He waited until he retired and his pension was safe.
Speaker 1: If not for him, we wouldn't have the proof that
the CIA intervened at that level. We wouldn't know about
that meeting. It would just be another pilot's crazy story that.
Speaker 2: Meeting took place in the Reagan administration. It implies that
the cover up goes to the absolute top and has
for a very long time.
Speaker 1: It does, and the location Alaska is significant. JL sixteen
twenty eight happened near what researchers call the Alaska Triangle.
Speaker 2: I've heard of the Bermuda Triangle. What's the Alaska Triangle.
Speaker 1: It's a vast remote area between Anchorage Juneo and Burrow.
It has the highest rate of missing persons and unexplained
aircraft disappearances in the world per capita.
Speaker 2: It's wild, rugged terrain. If something goes down there, you
might never find it.
Speaker 1: And right in the center of this triangle of high
strangeness is a specific location, Mount Hayes.
Speaker 2: Mount Hayes. This brings us to the weirdest part of
our stack of sources, Project Stargate. This is where we
leave the nuts and bolts of radar returns and get
into the strange.
Speaker 1: This is where we cross from hardware into high strangeness,
as you call it. Project star Date was a real
CIA program initiated during the Cold War.
Speaker 2: It was they were terrified the Soviets were using psychic
powers for espionage, so naturally we had to start our
own program. They called it remote.
Speaker 1: Viewing Psychic Spies. It sounds ridiculous, It sounds like something
from a bad eighties movie.
Speaker 2: It does, but the CIA poured millions of dollars into it.
At Stanford Research Institute, they used a very specific protocol
called Coordinate Remote Viewing giving a person a set of
GPS coordinates and asking what do you see there?
Speaker 1: And they had some success with it.
Speaker 2: They were surprisingly successful in locating down Soviet bombers and
hidden submarines. The program ran for over twenty years.
Speaker 1: And one of their star viewers was a man named
Pat Price.
Speaker 2: Pat Price was a former police commissioner from Burbank, California.
A very no nonsense, grounded guy, he was known for
incredible accuracy and for being able to pull specific technical
details out of his viewings.
Speaker 1: So one day, his handlers give him the coordinates for
Mount Hayes, Alaska.
Speaker 2: Right in the middle of the Alaska Triangle.
Speaker 1: What did he see?
Speaker 2: He described an underground facility deep inside the mountain. He
saw huge computer banks, strange tunnels, electromagnetic equipment he didn't recognize.
But then he described the occupants.
Speaker 1: He didn't see Russians or Chinese soldiers.
Speaker 2: He saw entities that looked human but weren't. He described
them as thought transferring, communicating telepathically, and he saw US
military personnel working alongside them.
Speaker 1: Okay, that is the nightmare scenario. Collusion. It's not an invasion,
it's a partnership. It implies that we aren't just victims
of these sightings, we are active participants in some kind
of secret program.
Speaker 2: That was Price's interpretation. He believed it was a major
base for extraterrestrial biological entities who were monitoring the planet,
and that parts of our government were complicit.
Speaker 1: And pat Price what happened to him after this viewing, This.
Speaker 2: Is where the story gets very dark. He went to
Las Vegas shortly after this. He checked into the Zardas's hotel.
In the lobby, he told a friend he felt someone
brush past him a bump. Moments later, he goes into
cardiac arrest and dies extremely No official autopsy was ever performed.
His body was cremated immediately. The rumor in the intelligence community,
and this is in the source notes from other Stargate viewers,
is that he was assassinated. He saw too much. He
looked where he wasn't supposed to look.
Speaker 1: If it's the pattern, Tarrochi is silenced, Lazarre is rated
and erased, Price is removed. The closer you get to
the core truth, the more dangerous it becomes.
Speaker 2: That seems to be the one consistent rule in this
whole field. The data is protected by a layer of
fear so.
Speaker 1: Where does that leave us today? We've pulled on threads
ranging from a seven forty seven cockpit over Alaska to
a psychic spy in a Vegas hotel. We've looked at
videos elidated by the Pentagon and official reports that admit
we need new physics.
Speaker 2: If you step back and look at the mosaic that
all these threads create, the conclusion is, I think undeniable.
We were in a transition period, the era of if
it's all swamp gas and easy denial is dead, it's over.
Speaker 1: We are now in the era of we know it's real,
but we are terrified to tell you what it is.
Speaker 2: Well, perhaps we are carefully managing how we tell you
what it is. The narrative is.
Speaker 1: Being controlled, and the future seems to be accelerating towards something.
We have a NASA's chief scientist Ellen Stofon on the
record saying we will have strong indications of life within
a decade and definitive evidence in twenty to thirty years.
Speaker 2: You have the creation of the Space Force, you have
all this talk of a secret space program. It feels
like we are being slowly acclaimed, prepped for a new reality.
What kind of reality A reality where we are not
the APEX predators, a reality where we are part of
a larger, more complex cosmic ecosystem, a.
Speaker 1: Star Trek future, or maybe Independence Day, depending on who
you ask, hopefully the former.
Speaker 2: But the technology is the absolute key to all of.
Speaker 1: This, and I want to leave our listeners with a
final thought on that. Let's go back to Bob Azar's reactor.
The technology that can warp groundvity and provide limitless clean energy.
Speaker 2: The technology that could solve climate change, the technology that
could end poverty, the technology that could give us the stars.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Let's assume for a second it's real if the
US government or some shadowy group actually possesses this technology,
if it's sitting in a hangar at S four right now,
gathering dust, are they justified in keeping it secret?
Speaker 2: It's the ultimate trolley problem, isn't it. Do you release
it and crash the global economy, causing chaos, unemployment, and
potentially resource wars over the transition itself, or do you
keep it secret and let the planet burn while withholding
the greatest discovery in human history?
Speaker 1: Is it an act of protection or is it the
greatest crime against humanity ever committed?
Speaker 2: That is the question, and I honestly don't think there's
an easy answer to it.
Speaker 1: We want to know what you think. Is withholding that
technology justified to prevent a global collapse or is it
a crime? Thanks for pulling these threads with us today.
Leave your answer in the comments. We'll see you next
time on thrilling Threads.