Speaker 1: Where were you on November the nineteen seventy two?
Speaker 2: I wasn't even born yet. Where were you?
Speaker 1: I wasn't born either, But you know what was born? HBO,
Speaker 1: the very first paid subscription cable television service. It would
Speaker 1: soon spread like a virus across the United States, although
Speaker 1: it began humbly by just showing a NHL hockey game
Speaker 1: Vancouver Canucks versus the New York Rangers. Now, the reason
Speaker 1: they they were able to show that, the reason that
Speaker 1: they needed to show that is because suddenly they had
Speaker 1: their own twenty four hour television station and virtually no
Speaker 1: content to fill it, so they would fill it any
Speaker 1: way they can't. Originally called the Green Channel, did you
Speaker 1: know that that was that?
Speaker 2: I didn't know that that was.
Speaker 1: Their working title? And then when they got funding from
Speaker 1: Time Warner, they were going to call it the Sterling
Speaker 1: Cable Network. And then somebody else said, well, maybe we
Speaker 1: should make it attractive. And so the idea of buying
Speaker 1: a ticket from a box office and it's at your
Speaker 1: home box office, here we go.
Speaker 2: So evocative. I love that. I love that name. I
Speaker 2: always did.
Speaker 1: I did too, And of course that the ad their
Speaker 1: their little promotional logo in the nineteen eighties with the
Speaker 1: miniature city. Cannot be beat.
Speaker 2: That theme, I love it.
Speaker 1: HBO was the first many stations they'd soon spawn. The
Speaker 1: Cinemax Showtime would jump onto the scene. There'd be a
Speaker 1: whole bunch of a whole bunch of local cable networks.
Speaker 1: That Z channel was a paid cable network in Los
Speaker 1: Angeles pretty famously, but so much time and so little
Speaker 1: to fill it, so you did it anyway you could,
Speaker 1: including on occasion showing filmed versions of theatrical productions. Now,
Speaker 1: this is our Patreon only subscriber show, but this is
Speaker 1: our inaugural episode, so we're including everybody. We're welcome everyone,
Speaker 1: all you midnight viewers. This is what some of the
Speaker 1: stuff you're going to get over on the Patreon channel.
Speaker 1: This is Cable Box Theater and my co host is
Speaker 1: night mister Walters and Noise Junkies host mister HP. HP.
Speaker 1: How are you doing.
Speaker 2: I'm doing great. I'm so excited that these are real
Speaker 2: great memories from when i was a kid watching these
Speaker 2: old cable shows, so I'm really excited to talk about
Speaker 2: this with you as such.
Speaker 1: We're we're going to be We're gonna be takes you
Speaker 1: can look at a lot of these theatrical productions, and
Speaker 1: you can too, because everything we're going to be talking about,
Speaker 1: we're going to be spoiling. But everything we're going to
Speaker 1: be covering here at Cable Box Theater is available for free.
Speaker 1: Our choice tonight is available on YouTube, so you can
Speaker 1: go watch that right now if you'd like, and then
Speaker 1: come back and we'll be waiting now. It's actually kind
Speaker 1: of a bait and switch here because we are talking
Speaker 1: about something that was filmed for television broadcast, and it
Speaker 1: is a film of a theatrical production, but this one
Speaker 1: actually aired in nineteen seventy five, and it aired on.
Speaker 2: It was a late night They buried it in their
Speaker 2: late night schedule because they were attempt the theatrical production
Speaker 2: was a flop and they were looking to recoup some
Speaker 2: of the show's financial losses and boost interest in licensing
Speaker 2: by putting it on network television.
Speaker 1: And how coincidental that with the recent resurgence of the
Speaker 1: DC universe with James Gunn at the Helm and the
Speaker 1: first character he's decided to tackle his Superman and way
Speaker 1: back in nineteen seventy five February the twenty first of
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy five on ABC, they aired It's a Bird,
Speaker 1: It's a Plane, It's Superman.
Speaker 3: Wide World Special. HP.
Speaker 1: You're a super fan of Superman, are you not? I?
Speaker 2: Yes, I was a big comic book kid growing up.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say I was. I was a huge Superman collector.
Speaker 2: I certainly was. I saw the original Christopher Reeve Superman
Speaker 2: in nineteen seventy eight. I saw that in the theater
Speaker 2: as a five year old. He in fact, did make
Speaker 2: me believe a man could fly. And just in terms
Speaker 2: of pop culture, I've always been fascinated by Superman. Because
Speaker 2: well we're not going to go into it here, but yes,
Speaker 2: I've always loved Superman. So I was really excited. I
Speaker 2: own the Broadway cast production of the soundtrack to this
Speaker 2: show from nineteen sixty six. To be really honest, brutally honest,
Speaker 2: I've never been able to get through the whole thing
Speaker 2: for one reason or another, so I was excited to
Speaker 2: actually see this production of that show. What were your
Speaker 2: thoughts going into this? I know obviously you were big
Speaker 2: into comics as well, just like I was. What were
Speaker 2: your thoughts coming into this?
Speaker 1: I was always a big fan of Superman as a
Speaker 1: comic character, though preferred to see him cinematically. I wanted
Speaker 1: to see him fly around. I loved all of the
Speaker 1: old cereals, you know, in the television series in the
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties, George Reeves and the old Fleischer cartoons. I
Speaker 1: was not so much into the comic, but for some reason,
Speaker 1: I do need to see Superman flying and not a
Speaker 1: drawing of him doing that.
Speaker 2: Superman was certainly one of those for me. It was
Speaker 2: like an old guard. I was always more of a
Speaker 2: Marvel kid growing up, because Superman always seemed to be
Speaker 2: a bit of a fuddy duddy. That's terrible. Only a
Speaker 2: fuddy dudy would actually say fuddyduddy nowadays, But he was
Speaker 2: always more of a you know, the boy scout kind
Speaker 2: of boring as a comic. I think.
Speaker 1: Superman Man, am I glad to see you? What are
Speaker 1: you doing on this deserted road.
Speaker 2: Some guys from school drove out here and we've got
Speaker 2: to stop pooling around with drugs. When I told them
Speaker 2: all drugs do is mess up your head and get
Speaker 2: you in a lot of trouble, they kicked me out
Speaker 2: of the van and drove off.
Speaker 1: You're right not to get involved in the drug scene.
Speaker 1: Nobody with any sense wants any.
Speaker 4: Part of it.
Speaker 1: How do I get home?
Speaker 4: That's no problem at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And well, that's the thing. The things that made
Speaker 1: me think he was a nerd when I was a kid,
Speaker 1: or the things I admire about him now, coupled with
Speaker 1: we're not going to go full into nerddom here, but
Speaker 1: you know, coupled with the idea of the last son
Speaker 1: of Krypton this, you know, and raised right and then
Speaker 1: does the right thing like that, there's something great about that.
Speaker 1: My favorite Marvel characters Captain America, He and Superman would
Speaker 1: be buddies. I think, at least the incarnations of Superman
Speaker 1: we got up until the nineteen eighties, when suddenly everything
Speaker 1: became gritty and dark, especially in the nineties. Oh my god,
Speaker 1: he has to die anyway. Back in nineteen sixty six,
Speaker 1: no one was really thinking about Superman too much. But
Speaker 1: you know who was David Newman and Robert Benton, screenwriters
Speaker 1: of Bonnie and Clyde. They wrote the book, Charles Strauss
Speaker 1: wrote the music with lyrics by Lee Adams. I would
Speaker 1: say that they chose to adhere strictly to the idea
Speaker 1: of Superman, that they were given in the comic strips
Speaker 1: in the nineteen thirties and really didn't pay any attention
Speaker 1: to anything past that decade, even though it was a
Speaker 1: contemporary set play.
Speaker 2: Agreed, But I think I would go further and say
Speaker 2: I believe they were also influenced by the nineteen sixty
Speaker 2: six Batman television show. The campiness of that can't be
Speaker 2: overstated with this production, both the Broadway production and consequently
Speaker 2: this televised version of it. There's a lot of biff
Speaker 2: bang pal at one point, and it's really, honestly, well
Speaker 2: we'll get to it, but it's it is almost playing
Speaker 2: as a slyly sort of satirical look at Superman instead
Speaker 2: of an actual story in the Superman universe.
Speaker 1: Basically, well, it's funny you should mention Batman. This was
Speaker 1: a flop on Broadway and you know, it only played
Speaker 1: for one hundred and something performances, you know, basically played
Speaker 1: for six months effectively. But the creators of it felt
Speaker 1: as if The Batman had taken the wind out of
Speaker 1: their sales, because why do you need to go see
Speaker 1: a parody of old cartoons and comic strips at a
Speaker 1: theater when you can just sit at home every week
Speaker 1: and watch your favorite stars guest starring on this can't
Speaker 1: be fun romp.
Speaker 2: Well. The other thing that I couldn't help thinking as
Speaker 2: I'm watching this is well, number one, let's just say
Speaker 2: like Superman is almost incidental to this production. He really
Speaker 2: doesn't feature that much in it. It's mostly about his
Speaker 2: antagonists and the things happening to them. But what you
Speaker 2: would get, at least in an average episode of Batman
Speaker 2: that you don't get here much at all is some action. Sure,
Speaker 2: it's can't be action in Batman, it's you know, the
Speaker 2: superimposed Biff Bang pal, but there was a good ratio
Speaker 2: of action to you know, other happenings in to give
Speaker 2: an episode this it just seemed interminal. It goes on
Speaker 2: forever and ever and there's barely any action going on,
Speaker 2: and in fact, for most of it, Superman is basically
Speaker 2: just a sad sec loser. That was my impression as
Speaker 2: I'm watching this.
Speaker 1: It was awful as campions. The Batman television series ever was.
Speaker 1: They were complete comic book stories in a half an
Speaker 1: hour or a couple of episodes. Obviously because it was
Speaker 1: serialized on the same Bat time, same bat channel, they
Speaker 1: were telling you a story about Batman and fighting his villains.
Speaker 1: This is more a satire I think about the sixties.
Speaker 1: I guess I don't really know. The plot, such as
Speaker 1: it is, involves Superman pining for Lois Lane, who only
Speaker 1: has eyes for Superman. Like, that's the same Superman plot
Speaker 1: we're going to get in everything. But it's really clumsy here,
Speaker 1: and Superman is a loser and nobody likes him, and
Speaker 1: neither does the audience. That plot is going on. Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: we've got Perry White running the newspaper. Perry White's kind
Speaker 1: of hip and cool. We have an antagonist reporter named
Speaker 1: Mankin here played by Kenneth Morris.
Speaker 2: Yeah. It was from young frankin Stein and the producers.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and he is the best thing in the in
Speaker 1: this production, and evidently in the original Broadway production was
Speaker 1: played by Jack Cassidy, which I can only imagine how
Speaker 1: fucking fantastic that was.
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, yeah, I did. I did come up
Speaker 2: with that. Yeah, that's he what a gem. That guy
Speaker 2: was weird, but a really cool actor.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He had a pretty spectacular episode of a Night Gallery,
Speaker 1: which we covered on Midnight Viewing.
Speaker 2: And he also had a great episode of Colombo.
Speaker 1: He sure deal with that. He had a few episodes
Speaker 1: of Colombo.
Speaker 2: That's true. He was in a couple times. I'm thinking
Speaker 2: of the one where he was the Magician. I love
Speaker 2: that episode. I can't think of the name of it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, okay, So the major plot, such as it is,
Speaker 1: there's a scientist who wants to get revenge on the
Speaker 1: Nobel Prize Committee and he's going to use Superman to that.
Speaker 1: And the villain here is doctor Abner Sedgwick, created for
Speaker 1: the Broadway play. Don't know why he's a mad scientist.
Speaker 1: He introduces himself as such. Why isn't this Lex Luthor.
Speaker 2: I didn't nderstand that either. There's one of the big
Speaker 2: problems I had with this is there's far too much
Speaker 2: that was created just for this production. I can't imagine
Speaker 2: and that sort of period of time that it's not
Speaker 2: as if there were going to be there was a
Speaker 2: licensing issue the way they couldn't use Lex Luthor. It's
Speaker 2: inexplicable to me because you could have had that character
Speaker 2: very easily be Lex Luthor with a few tweaks and
Speaker 2: a few changes to his character and some of the
Speaker 2: things that he does. But yeah, it didn't make any
Speaker 2: sense to me at all, but that kind of runs
Speaker 2: through This whole scenario is a lot of things concocted
Speaker 2: just for it.
Speaker 1: This Professor Abnercentwick is a ten time Nobel Prize losing scientists,
Speaker 1: and so his plan is to get revenge on them
Speaker 1: by destroying the world's symbol of goods, Superman. Ooh, we
Speaker 1: said this was pretty much lifted from the nineteen thirties,
Speaker 1: but even the nineteen thirties plots weren't this thin and stupid,
Speaker 1: which makes me, by the way, glad that they invented
Speaker 1: a character because maybe uller heads prevailed and said, don't
Speaker 1: use Lex Luthor, don't tarnish him by making him such
Speaker 1: a moron as a villain.
Speaker 2: But don't forget there's also so there's Abner Cedric, but
Speaker 2: there's also this sort of side plot where the mafia
Speaker 2: also wants to take down Superman. I don't recall exactly
Speaker 2: why they wanted maybe because he's just so powerful that
Speaker 2: they want him out of the way. And one of
Speaker 2: the mafioso is played by none other than al Malnaro
Speaker 2: Al from Happy Days. That was quite a shocker to
Speaker 2: see him there. Yeah, and he's not very good here.
Speaker 1: No, he can't really sing. Nobody can really in this production,
Speaker 1: it would seem so Yeah.
Speaker 2: Leslie and Warren can sing, and no, no, and Loretta
Speaker 2: Switt is actually the best singer out of all of them.
Speaker 1: Okay, didn't mention her. We have to mention her. She's
Speaker 1: part of the plot here, another invented character, why you know?
Speaker 2: And actually was interesting because I came in thinking that
Speaker 2: they were going to play her like would expect a
Speaker 2: society columnist to be very devious and sneaky, But truthfully,
Speaker 2: she's actually one of the more good hearted people of
Speaker 2: the whole show. Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, let's get into this now. Because you brought
Speaker 1: up Leslieanne Warren.
Speaker 2: She's terrible, Well you don't like you don't like Leslie
Speaker 2: and Warren anyway, because you already are on record as
Speaker 2: saying you hated her and clue.
Speaker 1: This is not our first tango with Leslieann Warren. I
Speaker 1: thought she's bad and clue, and I think she's fucking dreadful. Here, man,
Speaker 1: here's my impression of Leslie an Warren. Oh, that's Leslie
Speaker 1: and Warren from beginning to end in this Oh, that's.
Speaker 3: The spirit Sydney.
Speaker 4: Oh, I wish I had encourage to feel the same
Speaker 4: way about Superman.
Speaker 2: I'm tired of waiting around for him. She's miscast as
Speaker 2: Lois Lane. For me, Lois Lane is well. Margot Kidder
Speaker 2: is the epitome of los Lane. She's the driven, smart,
Speaker 2: motivated reporter who will get the scoop no matter what.
Speaker 2: Leslie and Warren plays her more like kind of a
Speaker 2: bubble headed sort of waif who is obsessed with Superman
Speaker 2: but doesn't really understand what's going on, or she doesn't
Speaker 2: have a lot of agency in this in this production.
Speaker 2: So yeah, she's maybe miscast, but I don't think that's
Speaker 2: she does the best with what she has. That's the
Speaker 2: part that's written.
Speaker 1: There's always one cast member in anything that's evoking another
Speaker 1: time where they have to fully commit to the other time, like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is kind of a screwball comedy we're doing, so
Speaker 1: I'm going to play it just like they would have
Speaker 1: played it in nineteen thirty nine. No, don't do that.
Speaker 1: This play takes place in nineteen sixty six. She seems
Speaker 1: like she's like a like she stepped off of the
Speaker 1: silver screen. It's way too literal, But I will say
Speaker 1: it's not entirely her fault because they let her go
Speaker 1: with her terrible first instinct. By setting up Lois Lane
Speaker 1: as a fucking moron of a character, she might as
Speaker 1: well be Clark Kent's secretary. She does nothing as a reporter.
Speaker 1: She just sits around mooning for Superman. At one point,
Speaker 1: they give her a dream sequence where one of the
Speaker 1: songs tells us what she really wants.
Speaker 4: Wanted just to be away that Connie left his brothers
Speaker 4: was plot.
Speaker 1: They then invented this character Sydney, played by Loretta Switt
Speaker 1: and originally by Linda Lavin in the original. In the
Speaker 1: Broadway production, who is Lois Lane? That's Lois Lane. She
Speaker 1: goes nose to nose what the fucking villain of the
Speaker 1: piece and lets him know what a shit he is.
Speaker 1: She encourages Clark that he's not a loser at all.
Speaker 1: He's actually a good looking guy and he's got potential,
Speaker 1: and that he can be just as good as Superman.
Speaker 1: It's Lois Lane.
Speaker 2: But you have to admit it is weird that they
Speaker 2: have this charcause besides doing that, besides being effectively a
Speaker 2: cheerleader for some of the characters in the picture or
Speaker 2: in the picture in the show, she doesn't really do
Speaker 2: anything else. She doesn't really feature into any of the
Speaker 2: outside of the Daily Planet scenarios or scenes or anything
Speaker 2: like that. So as happy as I was and pleasantly
Speaker 2: surprised because I didn't know that Leretta's switt hot lips
Speaker 2: for mash could sing, could dance, could be so charming
Speaker 2: and really, I think next to Kenneth Mars, I think
Speaker 2: she was one of my favorite things in this production.
Speaker 1: Oh it's the two of them, Like the play comes
Speaker 1: alive with those characters. Unfortunately, it's supposed to be a
Speaker 1: play about Superman, right, and one of big old chunk
Speaker 1: of would they got for Superman? Here Ali the America
Speaker 1: and found the nations everywhere?
Speaker 4: Bad? We could get together?
Speaker 2: Awful?
Speaker 1: Was Michael Parraine out of that he actually quits the
Speaker 1: laure too young at this point or his brother Frank.
Speaker 2: That's who I was getting flashbacks from. The guy looks
Speaker 2: just like costUS Mandalore. You know what's interesting, This guy,
Speaker 2: David Patrick Wilson is the guy who played Superman. I
Speaker 2: think he was actually in Eddie and the Cruisers with
Speaker 2: Michael Perey. It's crazy, what what a What a fine,
Speaker 2: what a poll you just made Father alone?
Speaker 1: You can't sing? I know that much, Man, see you.
Speaker 3: Night outdid.
Speaker 1: This part of his set of skills as Superman is
Speaker 1: not super singing.
Speaker 2: He's so bad. His costume is ill fitting. He's just
Speaker 2: a schlubby guy and there's zero charisma going on. It's Superman. Look,
Speaker 2: we grew up you and I grew up Father Malone
Speaker 2: with the really up to the at least up to
Speaker 2: this point, the definitive Superman, Christopher Reeve, the man played
Speaker 2: Superman beautifully. He played Clark Kent to a t. He
Speaker 2: was nebbish, but there was a smirk about his performance,
Speaker 2: Christopher Reeve. But with this guy, David Patrick Wilson, you
Speaker 2: just get nothing from his performance of Clark Kent is
Speaker 2: just he's just a schlub. He at one point he's
Speaker 2: typing and he gets his tie cat and his typewriter
Speaker 2: and he has to sheepishly get up and you know,
Speaker 2: to real toy boy.
Speaker 1: Then he looks the typewriter and walks off set with it. Right,
Speaker 1: and not only that, speaking of the ill fitting Superman costume,
Speaker 1: even worse, I don't care what a schlub Clark Kent.
Speaker 1: Is he's supposed to look sharp. They've got him with
Speaker 1: the undone tie, the top button unbuttoned, so the caller
Speaker 1: is open, fedora back on the head, you know, just
Speaker 1: like like he seems like Clark Kent at the end
Speaker 1: of the day.
Speaker 2: In every not that Clark Kent is supposed to be
Speaker 2: mister charisma, but he is, like you said, he's supposed
Speaker 2: to be sharp. He's supposed to be you know, he's
Speaker 2: supposed to be a good reporter, is what he's supposed
Speaker 2: to be. And you get none of that. You don't
Speaker 2: get the impression that this guy can add two plus two,
Speaker 2: let alone write an effective column about Metropolis. In any sense.
Speaker 2: He's terrible.
Speaker 1: They've chosen to turn Superman into the front page. Well,
Speaker 1: it takes place at a newspaper, so we'll just set
Speaker 1: the whole thing in the newspaper and then we'll cut
Speaker 1: away to a couple other things. But really we just
Speaker 1: we're just interesting what's going on here at this newspaper.
Speaker 1: And that's fine. It could have been good if they
Speaker 1: had somehow figured out a way to make Lois and
Speaker 1: Clark as interesting as Sydney and Mankin.
Speaker 2: You could do it.
Speaker 3: You don't.
Speaker 2: I mean they're going for, we said, more of a
Speaker 2: satirical look at the character, which I guess I've read
Speaker 2: enough parodies of Superman and actual comic parodies to know
Speaker 2: that it could be done. There's a way to do it.
Speaker 2: But if you're going to if you're going to go
Speaker 2: to a live show featuring Superman a play like this,
Speaker 2: I guess I would just expect more Superman and more
Speaker 2: action and more interest. But you don't really get any.
Speaker 2: I mean, Superman doesn't feature into it until really the
Speaker 2: last third of this production, which and even that half
Speaker 2: of it is him openly weeping on his couch and
Speaker 2: sucking his thumb for reasons I think we'll get into
Speaker 2: but it's just by the time you actually get his
Speaker 2: trumphant finale where he beats up all the bad guys,
Speaker 2: it's too little, too late. Even that's played kind of goofy.
Speaker 2: It's very Batman sixty.
Speaker 1: Six, very Batman sixty six. And for the television version
Speaker 1: here they've got, you know, they apparently cut a bunch
Speaker 1: of numbers mercifully and added Gary Owens as a narrator. Also,
Speaker 1: evidently they updated some of the musical numbers to make
Speaker 1: it more contemporary for a seventies audience. I did not
Speaker 1: go back and listen to the sixty six soundtrack because
Speaker 1: I heard the songs here and I did not enjoy them.
Speaker 2: There's some updating of the instrumentation, certainly, I think I
Speaker 2: detected a little bit of groovy bass and some chicken
Speaker 2: guitar at times. I didn't have the stomach to go
Speaker 2: back and re listen to the sixty six soundtrack like you.
Speaker 2: Some of the dialogue I think had been updated. I
Speaker 2: think there's that whole climax with a Siegel and Schuster
Speaker 2: proxies saying how they're freaks.
Speaker 1: And oh no, that's a stage production.
Speaker 2: That part is in nineteen sixty six. Really they talked
Speaker 2: about freaks and all that. Wow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't mention that there are two peripheral characters
Speaker 1: who show up on the campus at that Doctor Abner
Speaker 1: Sedgwick is staging his is villainous plot from Jerry and
Speaker 1: Joe to kind of hippie dudes who are cheering on Superman,
Speaker 1: and then later on when Superman gets into trouble, they
Speaker 1: basically rescue him and let him know that he's all right. Man,
Speaker 1: even though you've got problems. Man, It's all right, it's cool.
Speaker 1: You could be a freak. We're all freaks, baby, And
Speaker 1: of course Jerry and jo are supposed to be a
Speaker 1: Seagull and Schuster, the creators of Superman, ironically not invited
Speaker 1: to the original Broadway production, nor could they afford a ticket.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a sad tale, Seagull and Schuster basically having
Speaker 2: their their creation essentially just stolen from them. But that's
Speaker 2: the story for another time. But yeah, some of the
Speaker 2: I mean, but I think more often than not, we're
Speaker 2: talking about the soundtrack, the nineteen seventy five production that
Speaker 2: we're discussing, I couldn't Most of it is played in
Speaker 2: the style of you know, corny nineteen thirties musicals anyway,
Speaker 2: so I couldn't detect much of an updating there. If anything,
Speaker 2: some people really liked that kind of thing. I wasn't
Speaker 2: really a fan.
Speaker 1: I liked one song in it, and I think it's
Speaker 1: the only song that sort of had a life beyond
Speaker 1: the musical. That's the You've Got Possibilities song. Loura Linda
Speaker 1: Lavin did it originally, but it's the Sydney song to
Speaker 1: Clark Kent, letting him know that you know he can
Speaker 1: be better than he's he than he sees himself.
Speaker 4: Hair cut, simply terrible, necktie, the worst range, just unbearable.
Speaker 3: Want to attackle first. Still, you've got possibilities. No, you're
Speaker 3: horridly square.
Speaker 4: I see possibilities, and he there's.
Speaker 1: Something then, around the same year that the play came out,
Speaker 1: Peggy Lee to the cover of it, which is pretty
Speaker 1: fucking fantastic.
Speaker 2: I think that that is from just what I've gathered
Speaker 2: informally online. I think that's anyone's gonna pull anything of
Speaker 2: any lasting value from the production, and I think it's
Speaker 2: that song. It's You've got possibilities. I think if you
Speaker 2: go to YouTube, there's performances from local productions all over
Speaker 2: the place of just that song.
Speaker 1: It was worked into many, many performances in many, many
Speaker 1: lounges over many many years.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the song the I like that song. That was fine.
Speaker 2: The song that I pull out of this as being
Speaker 2: my favorite was not that the one that I really liked,
Speaker 2: and it was another it's telling that it's another Loretta
Speaker 2: Switt number. It was called Ooh Do You Love You?
Speaker 2: Which is her So this mankin this sort of up
Speaker 2: to no good reporter. She is talking to him about
Speaker 2: how the only person that he loves is himself, and
Speaker 2: this song is basically just telling him like you were,
Speaker 2: you had love at first sight, and it was you.
Speaker 2: It's a great song from the moment you saw you
Speaker 2: how your.
Speaker 3: Heart began to come way, which was much more promote
Speaker 3: on that day.
Speaker 4: You can't forget as you will let you are a cigarette.
Speaker 3: You just knew it was love.
Speaker 2: I can't overstate the fact of how charmed and how
Speaker 2: surprised I was by Loretta Switt. I thought she was
Speaker 2: really good in this because I only knew her, like
Speaker 2: I said, from watching her and Mash and she was
Speaker 2: on love Boat. She did a few other things, but
Speaker 2: she had range, and I thought she was quite good
Speaker 2: in this. But then again, compared to the likes of
Speaker 2: David Wilson and David Wayne as the mad scientist Abner,
Speaker 2: he was I mean, he's having fun. I have to say,
Speaker 2: like David Wayne is clearly enjoying what he's doing, but
Speaker 2: it's so corny. He has a song, a duet with
Speaker 2: Kenneth Mars that is just grown inducing right terrible.
Speaker 1: And you know, here's the thing. So Lois Lane and Sydney.
Speaker 1: They should just be combined into one character, and that's
Speaker 1: Lois Lane, and then Mankin and Sedgwick should just be
Speaker 1: combined into Lex Luthor. Like the song that she sings
Speaker 1: to Mankin could easily be sung to Lex Luthor as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or he could have it could have actually been
Speaker 2: him singing that song to himself, reflecting the fact that
Speaker 2: he loves himself. I could see that. Have you could
Speaker 2: have condensed a bunch of these characters into into one.
Speaker 2: I thought it would have worked probably better because it
Speaker 2: was one thing that we have to bring up because
Speaker 2: we haven't brought it up yet. Is the sets drove
Speaker 2: me crazy because I mean I think what obviously what
Speaker 2: they're trying to do is go for a comic book
Speaker 2: meets reality sort of a thing. So what you have
Speaker 2: is they're in the Daily Planet office, for example, and
Speaker 2: there's a bunch of desks and people work and typewriters.
Speaker 2: But the periphery of it, and the doors and the windows,
Speaker 2: everything looking out along the periphery of the set is
Speaker 2: done in black and white line drawing. So you have
Speaker 2: a window and the window frame is drawn. It's almost
Speaker 2: like it looks like it's drawn in permanent marker of
Speaker 2: some sort. I understand what they're going for, but to me,
Speaker 2: it just looked cheap and awful, like a children's middle
Speaker 2: school production. What did you think of the sets?
Speaker 1: Well, you know, at the top of the episode, I
Speaker 1: mentioned our usual fair here are the shows that would
Speaker 1: films of theatrical productions that showed up on HBO and
Speaker 1: Showtime and stuff. And in those cases, those are literally
Speaker 1: that there is an audience at a theater and a
Speaker 1: play is being performed, and they're filming the play as
Speaker 1: it occurs. This sort of a production is more in
Speaker 1: keeping with that NBC like, let's do something live productions
Speaker 1: where there is no audience. They have a studio, like,
Speaker 1: they have a sound stage that they've outfitted to, you know,
Speaker 1: replicate a theatrical production kind of, but the camera's a
Speaker 1: little more free form and can move through it and everything.
Speaker 1: It's less what we're usually about here at Cable Box Theater,
Speaker 1: and true do that. I would say that since this
Speaker 1: isn't a theater, they could do anything they wanted, and
Speaker 1: they decided to do the most slap dash version possible.
Speaker 1: If you look at photos of the original Broadway production,
Speaker 1: they have built this giant grid with all the different
Speaker 1: characters standing in it like a comic book page.
Speaker 2: Oh, like panels of comic that's cool.
Speaker 1: And like at the top left like letterings, it says, Meanwhile,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it seems like they were going for
Speaker 1: something really cool for the live audience, and here they're
Speaker 1: giving us the bare minimum of like here's you know,
Speaker 1: pop art is in right now, right, Andy Warhol, Yeah,
Speaker 1: you guys like that.
Speaker 2: Well, And you brought up another point that I wrote
Speaker 2: down here that I think really worked again this production. Now,
Speaker 2: when you're filming a live comedy or musical performance without
Speaker 2: any audience, it really it's like you're you right, get
Speaker 2: one hand tied behind your back effectively, because what it's
Speaker 2: doing is it's robbing the musical numbers and any comedy
Speaker 2: of any real power, because you don't get that audience
Speaker 2: feedback of laughter at something or applause at the end
Speaker 2: of a musical number. In this a musical number is
Speaker 2: over even something that's maybe a little bit of a showstopper,
Speaker 2: and you get nothing. It's just silence. And as a
Speaker 2: viewer of it, as someone watching it a televised version
Speaker 2: of it, it's it just I don't know. It doesn't
Speaker 2: film me with any kind of adrenaline. It what I've watched,
Speaker 2: it just feels like limp. You know, did you get
Speaker 2: that impression?
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's no air in the room. It's just
Speaker 1: sort of dead silence going on. And something as arch
Speaker 1: as this play is how way over the top, like
Speaker 1: you need to be feeding on an energy of an audience,
Speaker 1: even if it's a recording of an audience watching it live.
Speaker 1: You know, there needs to be some sort of contagiousness
Speaker 1: to the laughter. If something you thought was kind of funny,
Speaker 1: if everyone is laughing, you know, maybe it saves it
Speaker 1: a little bit. But here, if a joke lies flat,
Speaker 1: it lies flat.
Speaker 2: It just hangs there like nothing. And I mean they
Speaker 2: try to combat that a little bit with that narration,
Speaker 2: like you said, but it doesn't really do much to
Speaker 2: restore any energy. Because I think even even a mediocre musical,
Speaker 2: if you have if you can get that feedback of
Speaker 2: an audience applauding that, it just it feels like a
Speaker 2: bigger deal than it actually is, or it makes it
Speaker 2: seem like a more energetic number. But this is just
Speaker 2: it just like I said, it just kind of hangs
Speaker 2: there like nothing.
Speaker 1: So just like they've invented Abner Sedgwick as a villain,
Speaker 1: just like they've created at Max Mankin, they've also created
Speaker 1: these mafiosa characters. But they needed to be sensitive here.
Speaker 1: They didn't want to resort to their original nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: six Broadway production, which featured not Mafiosi at all, but
Speaker 1: the Flying Lings, a Chinese acrobat villainous troop that was
Speaker 1: the big prime mover of the underworld in Metropolis, and
Speaker 1: they needed to take out Superman because he was disrupting
Speaker 1: their operations. So you could imagine there was lots of
Speaker 1: jumping and flipping going on with the Lings. Some of
Speaker 1: the Lings father ling, ming, fouling, tiling, fan poling, and
Speaker 1: dong ling. They figure, we're going to put this on television.
Speaker 1: This is insensitive. I know, Italian mafiosi with gigantic broad
Speaker 1: fedoras and pinstriped suits and they all talk about, hey, boss,
Speaker 1: what you do in boul They wrote a song for
Speaker 1: these fools about how great the country is because they're
Speaker 1: they want to steal everything.
Speaker 2: Well, not only that that the song, there's a line
Speaker 2: in the song that I wrote down where they say
Speaker 2: it's a swell country where there ain't no gun control.
Speaker 3: It's a crusty souls swell contry, no control.
Speaker 2: It's a swell country, ever.
Speaker 3: You can't reach.
Speaker 4: Just look at all the bone a lawyers terrific.
Speaker 3: They just want to.
Speaker 4: Drive a politician's a best bug can buy.
Speaker 2: Even back then, they were this is the villain crowing
Speaker 2: about how this is a country that swell because there's
Speaker 2: no gun control, and here we are. We've learned nothing
Speaker 2: as a country since then. It's depressing. What was interesting
Speaker 2: when you just said, but this was originally an awful
Speaker 2: Chinese stereotype. One thing they forgot to update is at
Speaker 2: the final song or the finale of Superman finally getting
Speaker 2: his mojo back, he's beating up all of these mafioso
Speaker 2: that are coming at him and acrobatically doing their thing.
Speaker 2: There is a line one of his lyrics does reference karate.
Speaker 2: The karate is okay. That must have been a callback
Speaker 2: to the original, because these mafioso aren't. They're not coming
Speaker 2: at him with karate moves. They're just swinging at him
Speaker 2: with sledgehammers and things like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but they figured out they're just gonna think he's
Speaker 1: talking about fighting.
Speaker 2: At least they had, you know, the good sense to
Speaker 2: update it there, because I can't imagine how, even in
Speaker 2: nineteen seventy five, how culturally insensitive that would have been.
Speaker 2: Not that to your point, not that the Italian stereotypes
Speaker 2: are much better.
Speaker 1: But why it had to be an improvement in some
Speaker 1: minor way. But I guess cartoonish versions of you know
Speaker 1: what were already cartoon versions of gangsters. You know this, Ultimately,
Speaker 1: you know there were villains to be had. I just
Speaker 1: don't understand why they're creating anything at all. Like it's
Speaker 1: not like Superman doesn't have his own rogues gallery.
Speaker 2: When I think about it, though, there is a modern
Speaker 2: analogue to this. If you recall a little Broadway production
Speaker 2: called Spider Man Turn On the Dark or turn Off
Speaker 2: the Dark? Was it turn on or off?
Speaker 1: I don't really turn off the Dark?
Speaker 2: Turn Off the Dark, which was the soundtrack was by
Speaker 2: Bono and the Edge of U two. Correct me if
Speaker 2: I'm wrong, But I don't. I think all of those
Speaker 2: super villains were created for that show as well. I
Speaker 2: don't think they used any of the canonical Spider Man foes.
Speaker 2: Am I wrong about that?
Speaker 1: I think it started out that way, and then they
Speaker 1: then they added the Green Goblin.
Speaker 2: That's right, there was the Green Goblin, but I think
Speaker 2: there was like some kind of like not Madam Webb,
Speaker 2: another Spidery kind of thing with webs that it would
Speaker 2: ensnare Spider Man. Anyway, My point is I guess this
Speaker 2: is setting a precedent that maybe maybe that's what they do.
Speaker 2: Maybe you try to create new villains to offer a
Speaker 2: fresh experience to the theater goer. For me, I will
Speaker 2: say if I were a diehard Superman fan and I
Speaker 2: went to see this production, it would be disappointing, horribly
Speaker 2: disappointing that they didn't go with Lex Luthor. I mean,
Speaker 2: he is the quintessential Superman villain.
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, you can't have it without him. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: it just doesn't work if he's not there. I mentioned
Speaker 1: that we have a chunk of wood here as Superman, right,
Speaker 1: and I think a better performer could have done better
Speaker 1: because the problem is the play the book. It leans
Speaker 1: into camp if you want it to. Unfortunately, our two
Speaker 1: leads have fucking taken that and run away with it.
Speaker 2: At times, it felt like I was reading a mad
Speaker 2: magazine parody of Superman and that's clearly what they're going for,
Speaker 2: because what you have is Abner's scheme to basically make
Speaker 2: Superman a pariah and hated by the general public. The
Speaker 2: capstone of his plan is he goes to visit Superman
Speaker 2: to talk about everything. You're basically you know, psychoanalyze him,
Speaker 2: and he basically convinces Superman that everybody hates him, that
Speaker 2: he's a loser, that he's better off just not being
Speaker 2: Superman anymore. And it the climax of it is, as
Speaker 2: I said at the top of this episode, Superman in
Speaker 2: the fetal position on a couch, sucking his thumb, crying,
Speaker 2: saying I can't be No one wants to see Superman
Speaker 2: in the fetal position, sucking his thumb, crying about how
Speaker 2: everybody hates him.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants that the scene you're talking about, the fucking
Speaker 1: mafioso come in and kidnap, blowing Lain in front of him,
Speaker 1: grab him.
Speaker 3: Report Superman, save me, save me.
Speaker 2: I can't I'm paralyzed. Grant the guyl freaked out. Oh
Speaker 2: it's all psychosomatic, but there's no time to ty.
Speaker 3: You must save me now.
Speaker 1: I don't mind Superman having a crisis of conscience and
Speaker 1: an existential dread moment. But he can't do that in
Speaker 1: spite of Lois Lane being put into peril. That's a
Speaker 1: fundamental problem.
Speaker 2: It is for me, if Superman is going to have
Speaker 2: an existential crisis, I want him to have a five
Speaker 2: o'clock shadow sitting in a bar in the daytime, flicking
Speaker 2: beer peanuts into a mirror, bellowing at people, what are
Speaker 2: you looking at, and eventually clamax in him fighting himself
Speaker 2: in a junkyard and a good Superman prevailing. That's what
Speaker 2: I want. That's Superman three.
Speaker 1: By the way, obviously, and I agree with that. I
Speaker 1: think they we're going for some sort of mid sixties
Speaker 1: parody here, where basically this entire play is a really
Speaker 1: bad stand up comics, Like I think it would go
Speaker 1: a little something like this, like that's what this is,
Speaker 1: over and over again.
Speaker 2: What we're getting is super Duperman. That's what we're getting.
Speaker 2: It's the mid to late sixties parody of Superman played
Speaker 2: broadly and played for laughs, like, hey, let's tweak the
Speaker 2: nose of the legend of Superman just a little bit.
Speaker 2: That's not what I want. And they kind of try
Speaker 2: to have their cake and eat it too by having
Speaker 2: him bust in with some action at the end. But
Speaker 2: like I said, it's even that's I mean, that's it's
Speaker 2: Batman sixty six. Like I said, there are ways to
Speaker 2: do something smart and satirical around Superman.
Speaker 1: But the same end, I would like to see another production.
Speaker 1: I would like to have seen the original production with
Speaker 1: Jack Cassidy and Linda Lavin in it. I can't speak
Speaker 1: to the other performance of that, but like I said,
Speaker 1: I I think something could be wrung out of this.
Speaker 1: In twenty ten, they did a revival at the Dallas
Speaker 1: Theater Center where a new book was written by Roberto
Speaker 1: Aguire Sarcassa or Sarcassa pardon me, who would eventually take
Speaker 1: over Riverdale to end both Archie Comics and the Riverdale
Speaker 1: television series.
Speaker 2: Oh that's the guy you were talking about, Okay, I
Speaker 2: see that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And apparently there was a concert in twenty thirteen,
Speaker 1: and I guess every revival since then basically is using
Speaker 1: that book. Now.
Speaker 2: I have to check that out. I wonder if that's
Speaker 2: available somewhere online. I'd like to see how they updated it. Interesting,
Speaker 2: but yeah, I don't know. I mean, part of me
Speaker 2: is happy that the attempt was made to do this.
Speaker 2: It's just I can't help thinking that a better story,
Speaker 2: a better play, a better musical could have been made
Speaker 2: from this material. I think the most recent one was
Speaker 2: twenty sixteen, but it goes back as far as the
Speaker 2: early nineties, and just based on my informal searches, you
Speaker 2: can find clips on YouTube of local productions of its Superman.
Speaker 2: It's probably I don't know, maybe it's very easy to license.
Speaker 2: That's why it seems to pop up, and it's probably
Speaker 2: a good draw for people. Hey, Superman, I know Superman.
Speaker 2: I'll go to the middle school and check that out.
Speaker 1: Why not, Well, I'm just looking at the cast list
Speaker 1: of a recent revival of it, and I think this
Speaker 1: is what the updated book, where the characters are listed
Speaker 1: as the Court Jester, the Scarlet Widow, Kazam, Marilyn Nezbit,
Speaker 1: Jack in the Box, Blackbird, Jupiter. Yeah. I think they
Speaker 1: have updated it significantly.
Speaker 2: If I knew that it was updated, I might take
Speaker 2: a chance if there was a local production of it,
Speaker 2: maybe in Boston, like a you know, Broadway in Boston
Speaker 2: kind of thing, or touring production. I check it out.
Speaker 2: Couldn't be worse than this, that's for sure. The one
Speaker 2: thing that the seventy five production has in that sense
Speaker 2: is that at least the instrumentation, as you mentioned earlier,
Speaker 2: is somewhat updated, So that's a little more contemporary and
Speaker 2: that's probably more pleasing to my palette, whereas I think
Speaker 2: the sixty six to one has played a little bit
Speaker 2: more cornball and straight. But maybe I should go back
Speaker 2: and check it out again. I don't know, maybe i'd
Speaker 2: be surprised.
Speaker 1: Well, I think, you know, I think his sensibility for
Speaker 1: the music was a bit off here, but his he
Speaker 1: would get it right. The comic book musical. Just a
Speaker 1: decade later, two years after this aired, he wrote the
Speaker 1: music for Annie.
Speaker 2: Really, that's I didn't know that. That's interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's a huge libraty, which when you hear that,
Speaker 1: like it makes a little more sense, like what he
Speaker 1: was doing with Superman as character.
Speaker 2: I agree. I would have loved to have seen Jack
Speaker 2: Cassidy as Max Mankin because that part seems very much
Speaker 2: in his wheelhouse.
Speaker 1: I'm sure he was electric and that was a criticism
Speaker 1: at the time that he was so good that, you know,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned at the top, like people were like,
Speaker 1: where's Superman like this. It's all about that guy, Max Mankin.
Speaker 2: You know, I'm looking at the album cover for the
Speaker 2: sixty six soundtrack. Jack Cassidy is top build. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: and his font is a little bigger than everybody else's.
Speaker 2: It's kind of funny.
Speaker 1: Well, he's a big star at the time.
Speaker 2: Yeah. No, he deserved it, you know. I mean that guy,
Speaker 2: he could do it all. Is it fair to characterize
Speaker 2: it as a noble failure? Or is nobyl giving it
Speaker 2: far too much credit for them alone?
Speaker 1: I think you can see the bones of something interesting here,
Speaker 1: but I think this production of it, other than as
Speaker 1: a curiosity piece and maybe as a waypoint toward the
Speaker 1: original or some updated versus some other version of it,
Speaker 1: I think it's worth a look. But other than that,
Speaker 1: it rubs me the wrong way in a lot of
Speaker 1: different ways. I don't think the music is necessarily up
Speaker 1: to snuff. But you know what you are correct about.
Speaker 1: Loretta Switt and Kenneth Myers are so fucking good and
Speaker 1: this that every scene they're in is definitely worth the look.
Speaker 1: And this is on fucking YouTube, so you can actually
Speaker 1: just look up their scenes and watch them, and I
Speaker 1: think that would be delightful. I don't know that you
Speaker 1: need to sit through the all two hours of this,
Speaker 1: and I can only imagine what the like. Even longer
Speaker 1: version because they cut this down for television version must be.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think all told the one that I
Speaker 2: watched on YouTube, I think it ran about ninety minutes
Speaker 2: or so it was. It was not an incredibly long
Speaker 2: sort of part of my life that I had to
Speaker 2: devote to this. It's worth it, I would say, check
Speaker 2: it out. You can't beat the price free, so you
Speaker 2: see for yourself. Maybe you'll maybe you'll see something in
Speaker 2: it that we didn't, but it's worth checking out for
Speaker 2: sure for free.
Speaker 1: Thank you all for joining us on our inaugural episode
Speaker 1: of Cable Box Theater. From now on, if you want
Speaker 1: to continue listening, well, just head on over to patreon
Speaker 1: dot com. Slash follom alone as a Cable Box Theater
Speaker 1: is a Patreon subscriber show of the many free bonus
Speaker 1: things we're doing on over there. HP. When you're not here,
Speaker 1: where are you? I know your hosting night mister Walters
Speaker 1: and Noise Junkies. Bo Let me let me step in.
Speaker 1: Go everyone go listen to Noise Junkies HP. Is the
Speaker 1: current host, the ring leader, the The The, the Great Baboo.
Speaker 2: Yep, it's it's I've I've taken on the mantle of
Speaker 2: the the the curator of Noise Junkies. Check that out.
Speaker 2: Some new episodes coming on a semi regular cadence. You
Speaker 2: can also check out my band camp site hpmusicplace dot
Speaker 2: bandcamp dot com. I do have an ep that is
Speaker 2: very close to being complete, so some new content finally there.
Speaker 2: And and as Father Malone mentioned night, Mister Walters a
Speaker 2: taxi podcast myself and Father Malone, good times, fun taxi stuff.
Speaker 2: Check that out as well.
Speaker 1: And as for me, you're listening to this show here.
Speaker 1: We're going to be back next week with more midnight
Speaker 1: viewing with Father Loans weekly round up. All right, we're
Speaker 1: gonna be looking at at least one movie I know about.
Speaker 1: That's John carp produced The Fog. That'll be next Monday,
Speaker 1: and then the week following or the Friday following will
Speaker 1: be another Tales from the dark Side. Thank you all
Speaker 1: for joining us here at Cable Box Theater. We'll see
Speaker 1: you next time or something. I don't know. I got
Speaker 1: to come up with a catchphrase here.
Speaker 2: Just try one if you don't like it, it's easy
Speaker 2: to give up.
Speaker 1: Oh, nicotine, I'd better move fast up.
Speaker 3: Away nick one, keep gone, souper man.
Speaker 1: Is it hard to get out smoking oil?
Speaker 2: Is it easy?
Speaker 3: Like nicotine? Says?
Speaker 4: You know?
Speaker 1: Good Win?
Speaker 2: Back nicotine? No, no, Superman, leave me one, please, I
Speaker 2: need one.
Speaker 1: That's how hard it is. That's why I never say
Speaker 1: yes to a cigarette.
Speaker 3: What's seeing you?
Speaker 4: Superman?
Speaker 3: They won't let me play with him?
Speaker 4: Why not? See?
Speaker 1: I'm too good?
Speaker 2: I know how you feel.
Speaker 1: Why don't you try the air Force?
Speaker 4: Well, let me play the outfield last year and.
Speaker 2: You're at Air Force recruiter.
Speaker 3: I will, I'll do it.
Speaker 4: How about you coming along?
Speaker 2: And you could use a job too.
Speaker 4: It's a bird.
Speaker 3: It's a plain.
Speaker 1: Right to nerve.
Speaker 2: It's a real change of underwear, wearing under funder and
Speaker 2: you can choose some more than one woman, can't you?
Speaker 3: That is that woman? The Spider Man? You w yes, I.
Speaker 2: Underware.
Speaker 4: You could buy underruths where you buy underwear.
Speaker 1: It's underwear that it's underwear.
Speaker 3: Still storst stop star strossis