WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.440 --> 00:00:02.399 So I got woken up about one thirty or two 2 00:00:02.480 --> 00:00:05.120 somewhere in that time, and I started hearing the woops again. 3 00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:08.279 But it was close, and it was it was loud, 4 00:00:08.480 --> 00:00:10.759 and it was moving. That is nuts. It was like 5 00:00:11.000 --> 00:00:14.279 woop woop was going from right to left, from the 6 00:00:14.359 --> 00:00:17.719 creek to the road and up the ridge up there. 7 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:21.160 Would you say about one hundred and fifty yards curtain, Yeah, 8 00:00:20.480 --> 00:00:23.879 I would say is over fifteen twenty seconds. This thing 9 00:00:23.960 --> 00:00:25.960 was moving from where the creek was where we would 10 00:00:26.000 --> 00:00:28.039 get water. It was like whoop poop, prooper. And then 11 00:00:28.039 --> 00:00:30.839 it started moving right. I thought it was going right 12 00:00:30.879 --> 00:00:32.439 through those guys camp. All of a sudden, I hear 13 00:00:32.520 --> 00:00:36.880 this is garbling that all I can describe it? Right, raw, raw, 14 00:00:37.000 --> 00:00:38.920 Are you know if they sounds like er sounds that 15 00:00:39.119 --> 00:00:41.799 is not wooping? And then they kept going. It's kept 16 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:44.280 moving and then it got back to woof woop woop, 17 00:00:44.399 --> 00:00:46.240 and and then it just went on up the ridge 18 00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:48.200 and I was waking up. Curs, did you hear that? 19 00:00:48.359 --> 00:00:49.520 You know what the heck was that? 20 00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:25.640 I'd like to welcome Curtis and David to the show. 21 00:01:26.319 --> 00:01:32.040 I was introduced to these gentlemen via Jonathan Brown of 22 00:01:32.120 --> 00:01:36.760 the famous Brown Property in Washington. He spoke highly of 23 00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:40.159 them and suggested I should get in contact with them 24 00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:43.879 and have them on and boy, am I glad I did, 25 00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:46.680 because Curtis, you know, this is the first time I've 26 00:01:46.680 --> 00:01:49.719 talked to David, but you and I talked previously on 27 00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:54.200 the phone, and you guys have had some amazing experiences 28 00:01:54.239 --> 00:01:57.079 in what seems to be a relatively short amount of 29 00:01:57.079 --> 00:02:02.319 time for the big Foot world. Got you started personally 30 00:02:03.040 --> 00:02:04.159 interested in this topic. 31 00:02:04.879 --> 00:02:07.879 Well, maybe just a quick little background. David and I 32 00:02:07.920 --> 00:02:12.879 have been friends for over fifty years. I'm two years 33 00:02:12.919 --> 00:02:15.719 older than David, but you know, we grew up together. 34 00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:19.599 We went to the same college, and it turns out 35 00:02:20.199 --> 00:02:23.280 we both went to the same medical school. Believe it 36 00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:27.080 or not, we're both physicians, so we like to think 37 00:02:27.080 --> 00:02:31.719 of ourselves obviously as men of science. But after medical 38 00:02:31.759 --> 00:02:35.599 school we sort of drifted apart. He ended up in 39 00:02:35.639 --> 00:02:40.879 Central California and I ended up in Phoenix, Arizona. Obviously, 40 00:02:40.919 --> 00:02:45.439 still friends, kind of friends that even though we might 41 00:02:45.439 --> 00:02:47.280 not see each other for a year or so, when 42 00:02:47.319 --> 00:02:49.879 we do get back together, it's like, you know, no 43 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:54.599 time had been had we been apart. Now I really 44 00:02:54.639 --> 00:03:00.120 didn't have much of a background or thinking about bigfoots. 45 00:03:00.120 --> 00:03:03.240 All that game that start and tell you about his background. 46 00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:05.599 If that's okay, Yeah, sure they have a jump on 47 00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:09.080 in Man, what got you started in this crazy subject? 48 00:03:10.479 --> 00:03:13.000 Well, yeah, we occurious. We were best friends growing up. 49 00:03:13.080 --> 00:03:17.919 But as a kid, I was always interested in Native 50 00:03:17.919 --> 00:03:21.759 American you know history culture that studied it a lot. 51 00:03:23.479 --> 00:03:26.280 I was always the Indian when you played Cowboys and Indians. 52 00:03:26.680 --> 00:03:28.719 Used to make my own moccasins and the you know, 53 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:32.360 hiking the woods and stuff. But I knew that every 54 00:03:33.120 --> 00:03:36.360 you know Native American culture you know, had some type 55 00:03:36.360 --> 00:03:41.000 of name for bigfoots, squatch, you know, hairy men, you know, 56 00:03:41.080 --> 00:03:44.680 things like that. I knew they had, you know, spiritual 57 00:03:44.719 --> 00:03:48.759 animals just like you know, bear, the coyotes and eagles 58 00:03:48.800 --> 00:03:53.719 and stuff. Getting older, I had seen the Patterson Gimbland film. 59 00:03:53.800 --> 00:03:56.719 I you know, I felt that was real. It seemed 60 00:03:56.719 --> 00:04:00.800 people try to debunk that as they got older and 61 00:04:00.879 --> 00:04:04.120 had kids. My own nephews, you know, my son Cody 62 00:04:04.199 --> 00:04:07.280 and Josh. I took them to Burnside Lake which is 63 00:04:07.360 --> 00:04:10.319 South Lake Tahoe area, and we actually heard some howls there. 64 00:04:11.039 --> 00:04:14.120 I took interest in tracking and you know, things like 65 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:17.720 that in the in the woods and stuff. Read a 66 00:04:17.759 --> 00:04:20.920 lot of Tom Brown Junior's tracking and nature observation books, 67 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:22.879 and that got me interested in me at you know, 68 00:04:22.920 --> 00:04:28.160 the outdoors and things like that. Yeah, very good, very 69 00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:30.759 good things I learned from that. So try to pass 70 00:04:30.800 --> 00:04:33.600 that on sometimes my kids and you know, Curtis and 71 00:04:33.720 --> 00:04:37.000 things like that when we're out. But I think all 72 00:04:37.040 --> 00:04:40.040 that made me, you know, at that point, uh, you know, 73 00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:43.759 a probable believer, you know, watch the shows, you know, 74 00:04:43.839 --> 00:04:47.439 find you know, finding you know, Bigfoot and now Expedition 75 00:04:47.519 --> 00:04:50.240 big Foot, things like that. So that's kind of where 76 00:04:50.600 --> 00:04:51.120 I got it. 77 00:04:51.639 --> 00:04:54.839 And then mine mine wasn't as deeply seated as David. 78 00:04:54.920 --> 00:04:58.399 I I'd seen the Patterson give One film, but I 79 00:04:58.639 --> 00:05:01.680 was more of a skeptic, you know then you know, 80 00:05:01.759 --> 00:05:05.319 whatever you might we might think of finding Bigfoot, it's 81 00:05:05.319 --> 00:05:08.439 something that I watched, and I think the best thing 82 00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:11.480 about finding Bigfoot clearly they never have found Bigfoot in 83 00:05:11.519 --> 00:05:14.360 all their seasons, but it at least sort of brought 84 00:05:14.360 --> 00:05:17.839 it to the consciousness of prime time, you know, exposed 85 00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:23.920 interest to more people. And then on that was kind 86 00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:26.759 of my background. But on David's fiftieth birthday, he had 87 00:05:26.759 --> 00:05:30.639 to get together a weekend at his house and one 88 00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:33.040 night he said to me, hey, find a movie. I'm 89 00:05:33.079 --> 00:05:35.759 gonna go grab a shower, look on my DVR and 90 00:05:36.959 --> 00:05:38.439 see what you find, and when I get out of 91 00:05:38.439 --> 00:05:41.360 the shower, we'll watch a movie. Well I kind of 92 00:05:41.399 --> 00:05:43.439 looked through his DVR and he had a whole big 93 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:46.680 section on all those things he just talked about, and 94 00:05:46.759 --> 00:05:49.839 so I realized, you know, where his interest was. And 95 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:53.399 I had a little interest, but not the same as 96 00:05:53.439 --> 00:05:57.199 his by any means. And then three years ago, almost 97 00:05:57.199 --> 00:06:00.720 exactly to today, my wife and I was some friends 98 00:06:01.360 --> 00:06:06.240 went to Nepal and we were hiking over to Avers 99 00:06:06.360 --> 00:06:09.759 base camp and our guide just happened to be a 100 00:06:09.800 --> 00:06:13.480 Buddhist monk, and about a third of the way to 101 00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:18.079 has base camp, he took us into a temple and 102 00:06:18.319 --> 00:06:21.560 showed us a hand and a skull of what he 103 00:06:21.720 --> 00:06:25.279 described as being a yetti goal on hand. 104 00:06:25.600 --> 00:06:26.160 Wow. 105 00:06:26.639 --> 00:06:30.199 And we couldn't touch them. They were behind glass, but 106 00:06:30.560 --> 00:06:34.120 I was looking at it from six inches away. And 107 00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:38.079 I'm an orthopedic surgeon. I know all about can anatomy 108 00:06:38.160 --> 00:06:41.879 and that that hand looked like a human hand, but 109 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:45.800 it was probably twice as big, and the skull was 110 00:06:45.879 --> 00:06:49.480 probably about the size of a human skull if you 111 00:06:49.519 --> 00:06:53.879 added a football helmet to it, and the scalp part 112 00:06:53.879 --> 00:06:57.519 of the scalp was still there, and it was covered 113 00:06:57.600 --> 00:07:02.720 in really short brown hair. So you know, I really 114 00:07:02.800 --> 00:07:06.560 didn't have much interest in Bigfoot before seeing finding Bigfoot. 115 00:07:06.600 --> 00:07:09.319 And then I happened to see the doll in the 116 00:07:09.399 --> 00:07:13.920 hand of a supposed yetty. And so David and I 117 00:07:13.959 --> 00:07:16.360 had been the kind of friends, like we said, we've 118 00:07:16.480 --> 00:07:19.439 got to get together periodically on a guy's trip where 119 00:07:19.439 --> 00:07:21.920 we might go golfing or go see a sporting event. 120 00:07:22.800 --> 00:07:25.759 And after this he called me up and said, hey, 121 00:07:25.879 --> 00:07:27.439 let's go on another guy's trip. 122 00:07:27.480 --> 00:07:30.000 And so I had said, well, why don't we go 123 00:07:30.319 --> 00:07:30.800 see if. 124 00:07:30.680 --> 00:07:32.680 We can find Bigfoot? And that's kind of where we 125 00:07:32.720 --> 00:07:33.519 got started this. 126 00:07:34.800 --> 00:07:37.800 So how'd you guys pick your first spot to go to? 127 00:07:39.519 --> 00:07:41.319 Yeah, curse said, hey, see what you think of us. 128 00:07:41.439 --> 00:07:43.680 We felt like, you know, with California, it would be 129 00:07:43.680 --> 00:07:45.800 a good place to start, you know, close. So I 130 00:07:45.839 --> 00:07:48.040 began doing some research and stuff. I went to the 131 00:07:48.120 --> 00:07:51.959 VFRO website, looked up all the counties in California and 132 00:07:52.000 --> 00:07:55.399 how many different sidings they had and stuff, and you know, 133 00:07:55.600 --> 00:07:57.839 just with you know, Bluff Creek and all that with 134 00:07:57.959 --> 00:08:01.279 the Persians can win the history up there. Siske County 135 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:05.319 had to me had the most sightings that I could find. 136 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:08.000 So I said, hey, let's go up to you know, 137 00:08:08.839 --> 00:08:13.399 northwestern California. So after that I started looking on you know, 138 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:16.680 backpacking and trails things like that, trying to find, you know, 139 00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:18.480 an interesting place to go. I mean, we were just 140 00:08:18.519 --> 00:08:21.240 in go backpacking with guys, you know, quote big fitting, 141 00:08:21.279 --> 00:08:24.000 but it was more to spend time with Curtis, you know. 142 00:08:24.040 --> 00:08:28.439 But I found this interesting trail called the Kelsey Trail 143 00:08:28.680 --> 00:08:31.040 was on the Smith River, which is about twenty six 144 00:08:31.079 --> 00:08:35.480 miles east of Christen City, and we had to go 145 00:08:35.519 --> 00:08:38.919 on this It looked like pretty desolate area. We had 146 00:08:38.919 --> 00:08:41.320 to go on the dirt road for like six miles 147 00:08:41.559 --> 00:08:43.639 and then the hike in was about six miles to 148 00:08:43.639 --> 00:08:46.840 where you know, I felt like we could camp and 149 00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:49.840 things like that. So we went into the trail head there, 150 00:08:50.039 --> 00:08:53.720 heading into the Siski willerness. 151 00:08:53.759 --> 00:08:56.360 And I think, like David said, we kind of went 152 00:08:56.399 --> 00:08:59.080 into this calling it a big foot trip that we 153 00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:02.960 predomin we were expecting just a camping trip or a 154 00:09:03.000 --> 00:09:06.200 backpacking trip with friends. And I would say maybe the 155 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:07.600 first three days we were there. 156 00:09:07.639 --> 00:09:10.600 I think we were there six days and five nights. 157 00:09:11.000 --> 00:09:14.120 The first three days, you know, maybe we found some 158 00:09:14.440 --> 00:09:17.720 exes off in the distance and maybe a tree break 159 00:09:17.799 --> 00:09:20.559 here and there, but nothing we could really you know, 160 00:09:21.159 --> 00:09:26.600 honestly say, was anything other than just a natural occurrence. 161 00:09:26.639 --> 00:09:29.360 And you know, about the third or fourth day, I 162 00:09:29.360 --> 00:09:32.559 think David was looking at his maps again and he 163 00:09:33.279 --> 00:09:35.279 noticed that one of the trails, and we've been up 164 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:40.200 and down the creek both north and south, looking all 165 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:43.840 around every single day and evening, hadn't really found much. 166 00:09:43.879 --> 00:09:46.519 And he noticed that on the map there was another 167 00:09:46.559 --> 00:09:51.080 trail sort of across this creek, and so he suggested we, 168 00:09:51.879 --> 00:09:54.519 you know, take one of the days and go across there. 169 00:09:54.600 --> 00:10:00.279 And that's where we started finding some things. Yeah, there was. 170 00:10:00.279 --> 00:10:03.279 Only one trail you know, in there and out. And 171 00:10:03.320 --> 00:10:06.120 so when we got in there, we found a great, 172 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:09.080 a great campsite right on a peninsula by a creek, 173 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:12.080 and you know, nice water and things like that in shape. 174 00:10:12.519 --> 00:10:15.720 But so we set up our game cams around the entrance, 175 00:10:16.000 --> 00:10:18.919 you know, and on that trail, so we knew what 176 00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:21.840 was going in and out and if anyone was around 177 00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:24.759 there and things like that. So in the whole time 178 00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:28.039 that we were there, we only saw we met one guy. 179 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:29.679 He came in and he went out the next day, 180 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:31.879 so we knew that there was no one else around 181 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:35.320 with us. But so we started going up crossing the 182 00:10:35.360 --> 00:10:37.480 creek over and going up that trails. It was more 183 00:10:37.519 --> 00:10:41.200 into the wilderness area, you know, where the direction that 184 00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:45.840 it was heading. So we started seeing some like you know, 185 00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:49.039 suspicious things on you know, branches is like twelve feet 186 00:10:49.120 --> 00:10:51.799 high being broken off in ninety degrees and we had 187 00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:53.960 pictures of that curtis trying to reach it and things 188 00:10:54.000 --> 00:10:56.519 like that, and you know, other branches around, other trees 189 00:10:56.559 --> 00:10:59.320 being broken like, you know, maybe seven eight feet tall. 190 00:11:00.399 --> 00:11:03.159 One tree we found it was a big tree and 191 00:11:03.200 --> 00:11:05.360 it's it's hanging up in the air and it's had 192 00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:08.519 these other two vine trees wrapped around it holding it. 193 00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:12.360 But there's no stump, you know, and how the heck 194 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:15.240 did that get there? You know, And we're looking around 195 00:11:15.279 --> 00:11:16.960 for the stump. We can't find it. We don't know 196 00:11:16.960 --> 00:11:19.919 where it fell from, but it's just hanging like you know, 197 00:11:20.039 --> 00:11:21.960 pointing up the hill and there was a game trail 198 00:11:22.080 --> 00:11:25.000 right beside it, and so it's just kind of interesting, 199 00:11:25.279 --> 00:11:25.960 you know for that. 200 00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:31.120 Like, yeah, interesting to see a tree hanging in the air. 201 00:11:32.360 --> 00:11:35.879 Wrapped it was like wrapped in you know, these these 202 00:11:35.879 --> 00:11:38.799 other these you know, things are weaved around and holding 203 00:11:38.799 --> 00:11:41.399 it up and it's like, that's weird. 204 00:11:41.720 --> 00:11:44.159 And tie four or five feet off the ground, which 205 00:11:44.200 --> 00:11:45.519 is really crazy. 206 00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:47.879 And it was pointing up the hill. 207 00:11:47.919 --> 00:11:52.080 You said, Yeah, the top of the tree was pointing 208 00:11:52.159 --> 00:11:55.200 up toward up the hill and the bottom was you know, 209 00:11:55.320 --> 00:11:57.120 hanging like four or five feet up the ground with 210 00:11:57.159 --> 00:12:00.200 these branches wrapped around holding it up. And I had 211 00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:02.440 no idea how it could be twisted like that, you know, 212 00:12:02.519 --> 00:12:05.279 like if you were going to hold it up and 213 00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:07.720 pull these branches and wrap the branches around each other 214 00:12:07.759 --> 00:12:09.840 to hold up this tree. It was. It's strange, and 215 00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:13.960 we had a picture of it. It's kind of I 216 00:12:14.000 --> 00:12:16.440 don't know how that happens, especially where the tree comes 217 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:18.559 from down the hill or up till there's no there 218 00:12:18.600 --> 00:12:20.919 was no stump that it came from. 219 00:12:20.559 --> 00:12:25.799 And then we started finding other weird things. We noticed 220 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:29.000 on a couple of different trees that there were you know, 221 00:12:29.080 --> 00:12:32.799 four or five foot long branches that were sort of 222 00:12:32.840 --> 00:12:35.519 stacked up against the tree, leaning on the trees of 223 00:12:36.120 --> 00:12:41.000 something had clearly placed these branches there, and they were 224 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:44.960 essentially pointing in the same direction as the tree stump 225 00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:47.759 or not the tree stumped the tree that was elevated, 226 00:12:49.440 --> 00:12:51.919 and these branches you look at them, they didn't come 227 00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:54.759 from the tree. They were completely different types of trees. 228 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:57.759 One of them was even you know, solid red, it 229 00:12:57.840 --> 00:13:01.279 was like from a mandanita bush or on things. So 230 00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:05.759 whatever had placed them there had brought them there and 231 00:13:06.159 --> 00:13:09.240 kind of stood them up against the tree. And I 232 00:13:09.240 --> 00:13:12.279 don't know if you've seen Expedition Bigfoot, but this season 233 00:13:12.840 --> 00:13:16.519 they were in northern California, my guess is probably within 234 00:13:16.600 --> 00:13:20.960 fifty miles where we were, and they had a similar finding. 235 00:13:22.080 --> 00:13:26.840 There's was probably more dramatic, at least on their videos 236 00:13:26.840 --> 00:13:29.559 that they've shown on Expedition big but they had you know, 237 00:13:29.559 --> 00:13:34.240 fifteen or twenty foot sticks kind of leaning up against 238 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:37.480 a tree. So it was just, you know, just that 239 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:40.600 show was sort of confirmation of what we found. Was 240 00:13:40.799 --> 00:13:44.159 just unusual to be off the trail in the wilderness 241 00:13:44.639 --> 00:13:48.120 in a place where no one seemed to be. Obviously 242 00:13:48.120 --> 00:13:50.480 we had been there so other people could have gotten there. 243 00:13:51.039 --> 00:13:55.679 But that wasn't even the strangest sort of tree finding 244 00:13:55.679 --> 00:13:58.080 that we found. We kind of are now on this 245 00:13:58.200 --> 00:14:03.279 side of the trail looking for things. Our interest is peaked. 246 00:14:03.320 --> 00:14:08.039 We found an elevated tree, We found other branches all 247 00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:12.159 pointing in the same direction, and we eventually found what 248 00:14:12.279 --> 00:14:14.879 I described as an igloo, and I don't know how 249 00:14:14.919 --> 00:14:18.399 to describe it any differently. It was a domed dwelling, 250 00:14:19.759 --> 00:14:23.039 probably about the size of a two or three person 251 00:14:23.600 --> 00:14:28.320 backpacking tent, about three feet in height, maybe six feet 252 00:14:28.320 --> 00:14:32.519 across or eight feet across, and maybe eight feet long, 253 00:14:32.639 --> 00:14:35.000 and there was you know, opening at one end, and 254 00:14:35.639 --> 00:14:40.559 so there was Yeah, the branches were all weak together, 255 00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:43.840 so this was not you know, just branches being laid out. 256 00:14:43.960 --> 00:14:47.879 They were weaved together to make a sturdy, domed structure. 257 00:14:48.919 --> 00:14:51.440 And then so we figured, well, could this be human? 258 00:14:51.480 --> 00:14:55.720 I mean, probably most likely it was. We started looking 259 00:14:55.759 --> 00:15:01.120 for other signs of humans being there. Thing I noticed 260 00:15:01.159 --> 00:15:02.720 I don't even know if I said it to David 261 00:15:02.759 --> 00:15:06.879 at the time, but inside the structure, you know, most 262 00:15:06.879 --> 00:15:09.120 people when they put down a tent will kind of 263 00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:12.799 move all the sticks out and rocks and put their 264 00:15:12.840 --> 00:15:15.440 tent down. Nothing had been cleaned out, but it was 265 00:15:15.480 --> 00:15:18.399 all compressed down. So whatever slept there slept right on 266 00:15:18.799 --> 00:15:23.399 whatever was inside the dome. And then the next next 267 00:15:23.440 --> 00:15:26.879 thing we look for a fire pit. You know, you're 268 00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:30.159 out in the middle of nowhere, and even in the summer, 269 00:15:30.320 --> 00:15:33.519 it was probably in the mid forties at night, and 270 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:35.679 most people are going to have a fire, if not 271 00:15:35.840 --> 00:15:39.279 for warmth, just for you know, something to look at 272 00:15:39.320 --> 00:15:41.480 in the middle of the night. There was no fire pit. 273 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:44.519 And then we started looking for a while, maybe there's 274 00:15:44.679 --> 00:15:47.879 trash or something, because you know, humans seven, if you're 275 00:15:47.919 --> 00:15:51.159 trying to be clean, you're going to leave some scraps 276 00:15:51.200 --> 00:15:59.720 of paper or wrappers or something. And there was nothing. Yeah, yeah, literally, 277 00:16:00.000 --> 00:16:01.840 So then we started looking around it. Like David said, 278 00:16:01.879 --> 00:16:06.600 we found five or six piles of scat that were 279 00:16:06.679 --> 00:16:11.639 just huge and it looked like human scat, but bigger 280 00:16:11.639 --> 00:16:15.320 than anything I've ever done in my life. And we 281 00:16:15.399 --> 00:16:18.279 started thinking, well, what what could do this? Like I said, 282 00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:22.320 we kind of beforehand on our drive up, we wanted 283 00:16:22.320 --> 00:16:22.799 to look at. 284 00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:26.039 Everything from a scientific side. 285 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:28.960 Our viewpoint, and if we could rule it out as 286 00:16:29.000 --> 00:16:33.440 being you know, some other cause, we would, but you know, 287 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:37.600 It didn't look like bear scout. It didn't look like 288 00:16:38.159 --> 00:16:42.080 deer or else scat. There's nothing else that big that 289 00:16:42.159 --> 00:16:45.559 we know of in the area. It looked like human scat, 290 00:16:45.679 --> 00:16:49.200 but probably three times the amount. And then the other 291 00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.639 crazy thing is, you know, in our camp, we went 292 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:57.159 maybe one hundred and fifty feet away through our business 293 00:16:57.200 --> 00:17:00.840 and we buried it so we wouldn't step on it 294 00:17:00.919 --> 00:17:03.240 the next day or smell it or anything like that. 295 00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:06.160 These were all sitting on top of the ground. There 296 00:17:06.200 --> 00:17:10.599 was no toilet paper, There was no evidence of any 297 00:17:11.440 --> 00:17:15.359 like moss or leaves that anything had used to clean themselves. 298 00:17:15.400 --> 00:17:18.240 Whatever had done it had just squatted five or six 299 00:17:18.279 --> 00:17:21.440 times around its dwelling and did. 300 00:17:21.240 --> 00:17:23.079 Its business well. 301 00:17:23.240 --> 00:17:27.240 Really strange. No sign of other, you know, humans had 302 00:17:27.279 --> 00:17:30.759 been there. But we find this dwelling if you would, 303 00:17:30.960 --> 00:17:33.920 and scat all around. 304 00:17:34.680 --> 00:17:38.839 Were there any signs of like tools being used to 305 00:17:38.880 --> 00:17:40.240 like cut the limbs or anything. 306 00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:45.880 No, they all looked broken, you know, we did look 307 00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:47.839 at that. I didn't mention that none of them had 308 00:17:47.839 --> 00:17:50.839 been cut with an axe or a saw. They had 309 00:17:50.839 --> 00:17:54.440 all been snapped or fallen. 310 00:17:54.839 --> 00:17:55.039 You know. 311 00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:59.519 They maybe they were deadfall that had been dragged into 312 00:17:59.519 --> 00:18:02.319 the area. I don't know, but they had all been 313 00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:07.680 broken some way and had no cut ends on them. 314 00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:10.519 I mean, that's just so weird. You know, if it 315 00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:14.119 was a human, that's a pretty long term structure for 316 00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:17.160 a primitive shelter for someone to make. You would think 317 00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:21.279 there would definitely be signs of a fire and you know, 318 00:18:21.319 --> 00:18:25.119 the limbs being cut to create the shelter. That that 319 00:18:25.279 --> 00:18:27.559 just seems so weird that anybody would go back there 320 00:18:27.559 --> 00:18:29.640 and do it by hand and not build a fire 321 00:18:29.720 --> 00:18:34.000 and not clear it out, and then to just defecate 322 00:18:34.039 --> 00:18:36.519 all around it. I mean, that doesn't sound human at 323 00:18:36.519 --> 00:18:36.920 all to me. 324 00:18:38.319 --> 00:18:41.480 Oh, I mean, that's exactly what we thought. So, you know, 325 00:18:41.799 --> 00:18:45.839 we we thought with those findings we kind of hit 326 00:18:45.880 --> 00:18:48.000 the jackpot and that would be as good as anything 327 00:18:48.039 --> 00:18:52.480 we found the rest of the week. But I was wrong. 328 00:18:54.200 --> 00:18:59.960 Wrong. Yeah. So the next thing that I think we found, 329 00:19:00.039 --> 00:19:02.480 we'd gone back if you know, after that trail, if 330 00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.400 you know, if you at about two miles and stuff, 331 00:19:05.400 --> 00:19:06.920 but in the same area we had found a lot 332 00:19:06.960 --> 00:19:08.200 of the trees and stuff like that. 333 00:19:09.440 --> 00:19:09.640 Yeah. 334 00:19:09.640 --> 00:19:13.559 I'm always looking for track traps and trying to find, 335 00:19:13.759 --> 00:19:16.319 you know, places they can see traps and things like that, 336 00:19:16.599 --> 00:19:20.119 and I hadn't noticed it on a day or two before. 337 00:19:20.200 --> 00:19:23.160 But about thirty yards off the trail, we're walking and 338 00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:26.279 I see this kind of wet area, and I say, hey, Kurt, 339 00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:28.640 there's a track trap. Let's just go over there and 340 00:19:28.680 --> 00:19:31.680 look and see what we can see. And you know, 341 00:19:31.759 --> 00:19:34.440 like we think we're going to expect to see like 342 00:19:34.519 --> 00:19:38.279 deer tracks or you know whatever. Even if there's barren 343 00:19:38.400 --> 00:19:40.480 area thing like that, you could do that. But so 344 00:19:40.519 --> 00:19:42.359 we were walking off there and it's thirty yards off 345 00:19:42.400 --> 00:19:45.279 the trail behind brush and stuff. I could just see 346 00:19:45.359 --> 00:19:48.319 through the brush and see, you know, wettiness over there. 347 00:19:48.440 --> 00:19:50.720 I just want to go look at it. So we 348 00:19:50.799 --> 00:19:55.400 go walking over there and there's this probably a marsh. 349 00:19:56.079 --> 00:19:56.240 You know. 350 00:19:56.359 --> 00:19:58.640 The marsh is about I don't know, curius, what do 351 00:19:58.680 --> 00:20:02.640 you say, fifteen to twenty feet cross, and you know, 352 00:20:02.759 --> 00:20:05.880 maybe a double of length, you know, winde But there's 353 00:20:05.960 --> 00:20:08.799 nothing was water in it, mud and things like that, 354 00:20:08.839 --> 00:20:10.720 but it was nothing I would want to walk through. 355 00:20:11.759 --> 00:20:14.920 And it was probably about, you know, the size of 356 00:20:14.960 --> 00:20:19.240 a homeless swimming pool in the area. At least, you know, 357 00:20:19.279 --> 00:20:21.880 it wasn't wasn't huge, It wasn't a big lake. It 358 00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:25.000 was just a little marshy area and probably at its 359 00:20:25.079 --> 00:20:29.400 depth it was four inches deep, maybe six inches at 360 00:20:29.400 --> 00:20:29.920 that mouth. 361 00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:32.160 But you didn't have to walk through it to go 362 00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:35.160 past it. You we walked around it, you know, just 363 00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.279 to go ten feet dis direction and you walk around 364 00:20:37.279 --> 00:20:39.519 it on dry land and you go around the other side. 365 00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:43.359 So it's like, if you're a human, you why would 366 00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:45.519 you walk through there and get your bots all dirty? 367 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:47.279 But so we go there and all a sudden go hey, 368 00:20:47.279 --> 00:20:51.880 courtainly do that and there's there was three three footprints 369 00:20:52.079 --> 00:20:55.680 walking right through the middle of the marsh, and I go, wow, 370 00:20:56.079 --> 00:20:58.960 this is this is crazy. So we go over there 371 00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:01.400 and we got the pictures comparing our foot size to 372 00:21:01.440 --> 00:21:04.400 the thing, and Curtis and we both were thirteen's and 373 00:21:05.240 --> 00:21:08.000 you know the picture, you know, it's about twice as 374 00:21:08.039 --> 00:21:10.400 wide as in this foot and about three or four 375 00:21:10.400 --> 00:21:14.319 inches longer than a shoe, so it figures probably measuring 376 00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:17.880 about you know, I think, you know, thirteen shoes about 377 00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:21.559 thirteen inches thirteen, you know, so carib measure about fifteen 378 00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:25.240 inches long and about twice as wide it is shoe. 379 00:21:25.440 --> 00:21:28.759 And there was like three steps. You could see it 380 00:21:28.759 --> 00:21:30.880 in the water. You could just see the imprint in 381 00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:34.160 the water, and the first one, the second one was 382 00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:37.079 about a foot or two past it, like the left 383 00:21:37.079 --> 00:21:39.720 foot first and then the right foot. But then the 384 00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:44.759 third step was like over four feet. The next step 385 00:21:44.920 --> 00:21:50.079 was four feet further out, and then there was about 386 00:21:50.279 --> 00:21:53.079 another four feet to get out of the swamp from 387 00:21:53.079 --> 00:21:58.119 that side, and there was no step on there. So 388 00:21:58.160 --> 00:22:02.519 we figured that the guy whatever made it, you know, 389 00:22:02.599 --> 00:22:04.839 made the first step, second step, the third step and 390 00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:10.279 four step out you know, onto the dry area. And 391 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:14.599 so it was about yeah, four to five feet you 392 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:20.119 know step length you know, on there with it. And 393 00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:23.160 again so we're saying, hey, this is this is by people. 394 00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:25.720 This is not like, I mean, for a bear to 395 00:22:27.319 --> 00:22:29.440 step on itself and make it, you know, like a 396 00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:32.119 look like a footprint, things like that. You have to 397 00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:35.920 do it three times in a row and do that. 398 00:22:35.960 --> 00:22:38.359 And we say, well, what is this? How do you 399 00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.240 make that? And see, well, people could run and jump 400 00:22:41.319 --> 00:22:43.480 and make that type of step length or strike you know, 401 00:22:43.559 --> 00:22:46.720