Speaker 1: So I got woken up about one thirty or two
Speaker 1: somewhere in that time, and I started hearing the woops again.
Speaker 1: But it was close, and it was it was loud,
Speaker 1: and it was moving. That is nuts. It was like
Speaker 1: woop woop was going from right to left, from the
Speaker 1: creek to the road and up the ridge up there.
Speaker 1: Would you say about one hundred and fifty yards curtain, Yeah,
Speaker 1: I would say is over fifteen twenty seconds. This thing
Speaker 1: was moving from where the creek was where we would
Speaker 1: get water. It was like whoop poop, prooper. And then
Speaker 1: it started moving right. I thought it was going right
Speaker 1: through those guys camp. All of a sudden, I hear
Speaker 1: this is garbling that all I can describe it? Right, raw, raw,
Speaker 1: Are you know if they sounds like er sounds that
Speaker 1: is not wooping? And then they kept going. It's kept
Speaker 1: moving and then it got back to woof woop woop,
Speaker 1: and and then it just went on up the ridge
Speaker 1: and I was waking up. Curs, did you hear that?
Speaker 1: You know what the heck was that?
Speaker 2: I'd like to welcome Curtis and David to the show.
Speaker 2: I was introduced to these gentlemen via Jonathan Brown of
Speaker 2: the famous Brown Property in Washington. He spoke highly of
Speaker 2: them and suggested I should get in contact with them
Speaker 2: and have them on and boy, am I glad I did,
Speaker 2: because Curtis, you know, this is the first time I've
Speaker 2: talked to David, but you and I talked previously on
Speaker 2: the phone, and you guys have had some amazing experiences
Speaker 2: in what seems to be a relatively short amount of
Speaker 2: time for the big Foot world. Got you started personally
Speaker 2: interested in this topic.
Speaker 3: Well, maybe just a quick little background. David and I
Speaker 3: have been friends for over fifty years. I'm two years
Speaker 3: older than David, but you know, we grew up together.
Speaker 3: We went to the same college, and it turns out
Speaker 3: we both went to the same medical school. Believe it
Speaker 3: or not, we're both physicians, so we like to think
Speaker 3: of ourselves obviously as men of science. But after medical
Speaker 3: school we sort of drifted apart. He ended up in
Speaker 3: Central California and I ended up in Phoenix, Arizona. Obviously,
Speaker 3: still friends, kind of friends that even though we might
Speaker 3: not see each other for a year or so, when
Speaker 3: we do get back together, it's like, you know, no
Speaker 3: time had been had we been apart. Now I really
Speaker 3: didn't have much of a background or thinking about bigfoots.
Speaker 3: All that game that start and tell you about his background.
Speaker 2: If that's okay, Yeah, sure they have a jump on
Speaker 2: in Man, what got you started in this crazy subject?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we occurious. We were best friends growing up.
Speaker 1: But as a kid, I was always interested in Native
Speaker 1: American you know history culture that studied it a lot.
Speaker 1: I was always the Indian when you played Cowboys and Indians.
Speaker 1: Used to make my own moccasins and the you know,
Speaker 1: hiking the woods and stuff. But I knew that every
Speaker 1: you know Native American culture you know, had some type
Speaker 1: of name for bigfoots, squatch, you know, hairy men, you know,
Speaker 1: things like that. I knew they had, you know, spiritual
Speaker 1: animals just like you know, bear, the coyotes and eagles
Speaker 1: and stuff. Getting older, I had seen the Patterson Gimbland film.
Speaker 1: I you know, I felt that was real. It seemed
Speaker 1: people try to debunk that as they got older and
Speaker 1: had kids. My own nephews, you know, my son Cody
Speaker 1: and Josh. I took them to Burnside Lake which is
Speaker 1: South Lake Tahoe area, and we actually heard some howls there.
Speaker 1: I took interest in tracking and you know, things like
Speaker 1: that in the in the woods and stuff. Read a
Speaker 1: lot of Tom Brown Junior's tracking and nature observation books,
Speaker 1: and that got me interested in me at you know,
Speaker 1: the outdoors and things like that. Yeah, very good, very
Speaker 1: good things I learned from that. So try to pass
Speaker 1: that on sometimes my kids and you know, Curtis and
Speaker 1: things like that when we're out. But I think all
Speaker 1: that made me, you know, at that point, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: a probable believer, you know, watch the shows, you know,
Speaker 1: find you know, finding you know, Bigfoot and now Expedition
Speaker 1: big Foot, things like that. So that's kind of where
Speaker 1: I got it.
Speaker 3: And then mine mine wasn't as deeply seated as David.
Speaker 3: I I'd seen the Patterson give One film, but I
Speaker 3: was more of a skeptic, you know then you know,
Speaker 3: whatever you might we might think of finding Bigfoot, it's
Speaker 3: something that I watched, and I think the best thing
Speaker 3: about finding Bigfoot clearly they never have found Bigfoot in
Speaker 3: all their seasons, but it at least sort of brought
Speaker 3: it to the consciousness of prime time, you know, exposed
Speaker 3: interest to more people. And then on that was kind
Speaker 3: of my background. But on David's fiftieth birthday, he had
Speaker 3: to get together a weekend at his house and one
Speaker 3: night he said to me, hey, find a movie. I'm
Speaker 3: gonna go grab a shower, look on my DVR and
Speaker 3: see what you find, and when I get out of
Speaker 3: the shower, we'll watch a movie. Well I kind of
Speaker 3: looked through his DVR and he had a whole big
Speaker 3: section on all those things he just talked about, and
Speaker 3: so I realized, you know, where his interest was. And
Speaker 3: I had a little interest, but not the same as
Speaker 3: his by any means. And then three years ago, almost
Speaker 3: exactly to today, my wife and I was some friends
Speaker 3: went to Nepal and we were hiking over to Avers
Speaker 3: base camp and our guide just happened to be a
Speaker 3: Buddhist monk, and about a third of the way to
Speaker 3: has base camp, he took us into a temple and
Speaker 3: showed us a hand and a skull of what he
Speaker 3: described as being a yetti goal on hand.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And we couldn't touch them. They were behind glass, but
Speaker 3: I was looking at it from six inches away. And
Speaker 3: I'm an orthopedic surgeon. I know all about can anatomy
Speaker 3: and that that hand looked like a human hand, but
Speaker 3: it was probably twice as big, and the skull was
Speaker 3: probably about the size of a human skull if you
Speaker 3: added a football helmet to it, and the scalp part
Speaker 3: of the scalp was still there, and it was covered
Speaker 3: in really short brown hair. So you know, I really
Speaker 3: didn't have much interest in Bigfoot before seeing finding Bigfoot.
Speaker 3: And then I happened to see the doll in the
Speaker 3: hand of a supposed yetty. And so David and I
Speaker 3: had been the kind of friends, like we said, we've
Speaker 3: got to get together periodically on a guy's trip where
Speaker 3: we might go golfing or go see a sporting event.
Speaker 3: And after this he called me up and said, hey,
Speaker 3: let's go on another guy's trip.
Speaker 4: And so I had said, well, why don't we go
Speaker 4: see if.
Speaker 3: We can find Bigfoot? And that's kind of where we
Speaker 3: got started this.
Speaker 2: So how'd you guys pick your first spot to go to?
Speaker 1: Yeah, curse said, hey, see what you think of us.
Speaker 1: We felt like, you know, with California, it would be
Speaker 1: a good place to start, you know, close. So I
Speaker 1: began doing some research and stuff. I went to the
Speaker 1: VFRO website, looked up all the counties in California and
Speaker 1: how many different sidings they had and stuff, and you know,
Speaker 1: just with you know, Bluff Creek and all that with
Speaker 1: the Persians can win the history up there. Siske County
Speaker 1: had to me had the most sightings that I could find.
Speaker 1: So I said, hey, let's go up to you know,
Speaker 1: northwestern California. So after that I started looking on you know,
Speaker 1: backpacking and trails things like that, trying to find, you know,
Speaker 1: an interesting place to go. I mean, we were just
Speaker 1: in go backpacking with guys, you know, quote big fitting,
Speaker 1: but it was more to spend time with Curtis, you know.
Speaker 1: But I found this interesting trail called the Kelsey Trail
Speaker 1: was on the Smith River, which is about twenty six
Speaker 1: miles east of Christen City, and we had to go
Speaker 1: on this It looked like pretty desolate area. We had
Speaker 1: to go on the dirt road for like six miles
Speaker 1: and then the hike in was about six miles to
Speaker 1: where you know, I felt like we could camp and
Speaker 1: things like that. So we went into the trail head there,
Speaker 1: heading into the Siski willerness.
Speaker 5: And I think, like David said, we kind of went
Speaker 5: into this calling it a big foot trip that we
Speaker 5: predomin we were expecting just a camping trip or a
Speaker 5: backpacking trip with friends. And I would say maybe the
Speaker 5: first three days we were there.
Speaker 3: I think we were there six days and five nights.
Speaker 3: The first three days, you know, maybe we found some
Speaker 3: exes off in the distance and maybe a tree break
Speaker 3: here and there, but nothing we could really you know,
Speaker 3: honestly say, was anything other than just a natural occurrence.
Speaker 3: And you know, about the third or fourth day, I
Speaker 3: think David was looking at his maps again and he
Speaker 3: noticed that one of the trails, and we've been up
Speaker 3: and down the creek both north and south, looking all
Speaker 3: around every single day and evening, hadn't really found much.
Speaker 3: And he noticed that on the map there was another
Speaker 3: trail sort of across this creek, and so he suggested we,
Speaker 3: you know, take one of the days and go across there.
Speaker 3: And that's where we started finding some things. Yeah, there was.
Speaker 1: Only one trail you know, in there and out. And
Speaker 1: so when we got in there, we found a great,
Speaker 1: a great campsite right on a peninsula by a creek,
Speaker 1: and you know, nice water and things like that in shape.
Speaker 1: But so we set up our game cams around the entrance,
Speaker 1: you know, and on that trail, so we knew what
Speaker 1: was going in and out and if anyone was around
Speaker 1: there and things like that. So in the whole time
Speaker 1: that we were there, we only saw we met one guy.
Speaker 1: He came in and he went out the next day,
Speaker 1: so we knew that there was no one else around
Speaker 1: with us. But so we started going up crossing the
Speaker 1: creek over and going up that trails. It was more
Speaker 1: into the wilderness area, you know, where the direction that
Speaker 1: it was heading. So we started seeing some like you know,
Speaker 1: suspicious things on you know, branches is like twelve feet
Speaker 1: high being broken off in ninety degrees and we had
Speaker 1: pictures of that curtis trying to reach it and things
Speaker 1: like that, and you know, other branches around, other trees
Speaker 1: being broken like, you know, maybe seven eight feet tall.
Speaker 1: One tree we found it was a big tree and
Speaker 1: it's it's hanging up in the air and it's had
Speaker 1: these other two vine trees wrapped around it holding it.
Speaker 1: But there's no stump, you know, and how the heck
Speaker 1: did that get there? You know, And we're looking around
Speaker 1: for the stump. We can't find it. We don't know
Speaker 1: where it fell from, but it's just hanging like you know,
Speaker 1: pointing up the hill and there was a game trail
Speaker 1: right beside it, and so it's just kind of interesting,
Speaker 1: you know for that.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, interesting to see a tree hanging in the air.
Speaker 1: Wrapped it was like wrapped in you know, these these
Speaker 1: other these you know, things are weaved around and holding
Speaker 1: it up and it's like, that's weird.
Speaker 3: And tie four or five feet off the ground, which
Speaker 3: is really crazy.
Speaker 2: And it was pointing up the hill.
Speaker 1: You said, Yeah, the top of the tree was pointing
Speaker 1: up toward up the hill and the bottom was you know,
Speaker 1: hanging like four or five feet up the ground with
Speaker 1: these branches wrapped around holding it up. And I had
Speaker 1: no idea how it could be twisted like that, you know,
Speaker 1: like if you were going to hold it up and
Speaker 1: pull these branches and wrap the branches around each other
Speaker 1: to hold up this tree. It was. It's strange, and
Speaker 1: we had a picture of it. It's kind of I
Speaker 1: don't know how that happens, especially where the tree comes
Speaker 1: from down the hill or up till there's no there
Speaker 1: was no stump that it came from.
Speaker 3: And then we started finding other weird things. We noticed
Speaker 3: on a couple of different trees that there were you know,
Speaker 3: four or five foot long branches that were sort of
Speaker 3: stacked up against the tree, leaning on the trees of
Speaker 3: something had clearly placed these branches there, and they were
Speaker 3: essentially pointing in the same direction as the tree stump
Speaker 3: or not the tree stumped the tree that was elevated,
Speaker 3: and these branches you look at them, they didn't come
Speaker 3: from the tree. They were completely different types of trees.
Speaker 3: One of them was even you know, solid red, it
Speaker 3: was like from a mandanita bush or on things. So
Speaker 3: whatever had placed them there had brought them there and
Speaker 3: kind of stood them up against the tree. And I
Speaker 3: don't know if you've seen Expedition Bigfoot, but this season
Speaker 3: they were in northern California, my guess is probably within
Speaker 3: fifty miles where we were, and they had a similar finding.
Speaker 3: There's was probably more dramatic, at least on their videos
Speaker 3: that they've shown on Expedition big but they had you know,
Speaker 3: fifteen or twenty foot sticks kind of leaning up against
Speaker 3: a tree. So it was just, you know, just that
Speaker 3: show was sort of confirmation of what we found. Was
Speaker 3: just unusual to be off the trail in the wilderness
Speaker 3: in a place where no one seemed to be. Obviously
Speaker 3: we had been there so other people could have gotten there.
Speaker 3: But that wasn't even the strangest sort of tree finding
Speaker 3: that we found. We kind of are now on this
Speaker 3: side of the trail looking for things. Our interest is peaked.
Speaker 3: We found an elevated tree, We found other branches all
Speaker 3: pointing in the same direction, and we eventually found what
Speaker 3: I described as an igloo, and I don't know how
Speaker 3: to describe it any differently. It was a domed dwelling,
Speaker 3: probably about the size of a two or three person
Speaker 3: backpacking tent, about three feet in height, maybe six feet
Speaker 3: across or eight feet across, and maybe eight feet long,
Speaker 3: and there was you know, opening at one end, and
Speaker 3: so there was Yeah, the branches were all weak together,
Speaker 3: so this was not you know, just branches being laid out.
Speaker 3: They were weaved together to make a sturdy, domed structure.
Speaker 3: And then so we figured, well, could this be human?
Speaker 3: I mean, probably most likely it was. We started looking
Speaker 3: for other signs of humans being there. Thing I noticed
Speaker 3: I don't even know if I said it to David
Speaker 3: at the time, but inside the structure, you know, most
Speaker 3: people when they put down a tent will kind of
Speaker 3: move all the sticks out and rocks and put their
Speaker 3: tent down. Nothing had been cleaned out, but it was
Speaker 3: all compressed down. So whatever slept there slept right on
Speaker 3: whatever was inside the dome. And then the next next
Speaker 3: thing we look for a fire pit. You know, you're
Speaker 3: out in the middle of nowhere, and even in the summer,
Speaker 3: it was probably in the mid forties at night, and
Speaker 3: most people are going to have a fire, if not
Speaker 3: for warmth, just for you know, something to look at
Speaker 3: in the middle of the night. There was no fire pit.
Speaker 3: And then we started looking for a while, maybe there's
Speaker 3: trash or something, because you know, humans seven, if you're
Speaker 3: trying to be clean, you're going to leave some scraps
Speaker 3: of paper or wrappers or something. And there was nothing. Yeah, yeah, literally,
Speaker 3: So then we started looking around it. Like David said,
Speaker 3: we found five or six piles of scat that were
Speaker 3: just huge and it looked like human scat, but bigger
Speaker 3: than anything I've ever done in my life. And we
Speaker 3: started thinking, well, what what could do this? Like I said,
Speaker 3: we kind of beforehand on our drive up, we wanted
Speaker 3: to look at.
Speaker 4: Everything from a scientific side.
Speaker 3: Our viewpoint, and if we could rule it out as
Speaker 3: being you know, some other cause, we would, but you know,
Speaker 3: It didn't look like bear scout. It didn't look like
Speaker 3: deer or else scat. There's nothing else that big that
Speaker 3: we know of in the area. It looked like human scat,
Speaker 3: but probably three times the amount. And then the other
Speaker 3: crazy thing is, you know, in our camp, we went
Speaker 3: maybe one hundred and fifty feet away through our business
Speaker 3: and we buried it so we wouldn't step on it
Speaker 3: the next day or smell it or anything like that.
Speaker 3: These were all sitting on top of the ground. There
Speaker 3: was no toilet paper, There was no evidence of any
Speaker 3: like moss or leaves that anything had used to clean themselves.
Speaker 3: Whatever had done it had just squatted five or six
Speaker 3: times around its dwelling and did.
Speaker 1: Its business well.
Speaker 3: Really strange. No sign of other, you know, humans had
Speaker 3: been there. But we find this dwelling if you would,
Speaker 3: and scat all around.
Speaker 2: Were there any signs of like tools being used to
Speaker 2: like cut the limbs or anything.
Speaker 3: No, they all looked broken, you know, we did look
Speaker 3: at that. I didn't mention that none of them had
Speaker 3: been cut with an axe or a saw. They had
Speaker 3: all been snapped or fallen.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: They maybe they were deadfall that had been dragged into
Speaker 3: the area. I don't know, but they had all been
Speaker 3: broken some way and had no cut ends on them.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just so weird. You know, if it
Speaker 2: was a human, that's a pretty long term structure for
Speaker 2: a primitive shelter for someone to make. You would think
Speaker 2: there would definitely be signs of a fire and you know,
Speaker 2: the limbs being cut to create the shelter. That that
Speaker 2: just seems so weird that anybody would go back there
Speaker 2: and do it by hand and not build a fire
Speaker 2: and not clear it out, and then to just defecate
Speaker 2: all around it. I mean, that doesn't sound human at
Speaker 2: all to me.
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, that's exactly what we thought. So, you know,
Speaker 3: we we thought with those findings we kind of hit
Speaker 3: the jackpot and that would be as good as anything
Speaker 3: we found the rest of the week. But I was wrong.
Speaker 1: Wrong. Yeah. So the next thing that I think we found,
Speaker 1: we'd gone back if you know, after that trail, if
Speaker 1: you know, if you at about two miles and stuff,
Speaker 1: but in the same area we had found a lot
Speaker 1: of the trees and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm always looking for track traps and trying to find,
Speaker 1: you know, places they can see traps and things like that,
Speaker 1: and I hadn't noticed it on a day or two before.
Speaker 1: But about thirty yards off the trail, we're walking and
Speaker 1: I see this kind of wet area, and I say, hey, Kurt,
Speaker 1: there's a track trap. Let's just go over there and
Speaker 1: look and see what we can see. And you know,
Speaker 1: like we think we're going to expect to see like
Speaker 1: deer tracks or you know whatever. Even if there's barren
Speaker 1: area thing like that, you could do that. But so
Speaker 1: we were walking off there and it's thirty yards off
Speaker 1: the trail behind brush and stuff. I could just see
Speaker 1: through the brush and see, you know, wettiness over there.
Speaker 1: I just want to go look at it. So we
Speaker 1: go walking over there and there's this probably a marsh.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: The marsh is about I don't know, curius, what do
Speaker 1: you say, fifteen to twenty feet cross, and you know,
Speaker 1: maybe a double of length, you know, winde But there's
Speaker 1: nothing was water in it, mud and things like that,
Speaker 1: but it was nothing I would want to walk through.
Speaker 3: And it was probably about, you know, the size of
Speaker 3: a homeless swimming pool in the area. At least, you know,
Speaker 3: it wasn't wasn't huge, It wasn't a big lake. It
Speaker 3: was just a little marshy area and probably at its
Speaker 3: depth it was four inches deep, maybe six inches at
Speaker 3: that mouth.
Speaker 1: But you didn't have to walk through it to go
Speaker 1: past it. You we walked around it, you know, just
Speaker 1: to go ten feet dis direction and you walk around
Speaker 1: it on dry land and you go around the other side.
Speaker 1: So it's like, if you're a human, you why would
Speaker 1: you walk through there and get your bots all dirty?
Speaker 1: But so we go there and all a sudden go hey,
Speaker 1: courtainly do that and there's there was three three footprints
Speaker 1: walking right through the middle of the marsh, and I go, wow,
Speaker 1: this is this is crazy. So we go over there
Speaker 1: and we got the pictures comparing our foot size to
Speaker 1: the thing, and Curtis and we both were thirteen's and
Speaker 1: you know the picture, you know, it's about twice as
Speaker 1: wide as in this foot and about three or four
Speaker 1: inches longer than a shoe, so it figures probably measuring
Speaker 1: about you know, I think, you know, thirteen shoes about
Speaker 1: thirteen inches thirteen, you know, so carib measure about fifteen
Speaker 1: inches long and about twice as wide it is shoe.
Speaker 1: And there was like three steps. You could see it
Speaker 1: in the water. You could just see the imprint in
Speaker 1: the water, and the first one, the second one was
Speaker 1: about a foot or two past it, like the left
Speaker 1: foot first and then the right foot. But then the
Speaker 1: third step was like over four feet. The next step
Speaker 1: was four feet further out, and then there was about
Speaker 1: another four feet to get out of the swamp from
Speaker 1: that side, and there was no step on there. So
Speaker 1: we figured that the guy whatever made it, you know,
Speaker 1: made the first step, second step, the third step and
Speaker 1: four step out you know, onto the dry area. And
Speaker 1: so it was about yeah, four to five feet you
Speaker 1: know step length you know, on there with it. And
Speaker 1: again so we're saying, hey, this is this is by people.
Speaker 1: This is not like, I mean, for a bear to
Speaker 1: step on itself and make it, you know, like a
Speaker 1: look like a footprint, things like that. You have to
Speaker 1: do it three times in a row and do that.
Speaker 1: And we say, well, what is this? How do you
Speaker 1: make that? And see, well, people could run and jump
Speaker 1: and make that type of step length or strike you know,
Speaker 1: stride length. You can do that. But if you're running
Speaker 1: and you jump and step in mud, you're gonna slide. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, there there was no sliding. There was no
Speaker 1: nothing of that, you know, around these things. It was
Speaker 1: just a walking step into the wet, you know, with
Speaker 1: a stride so something by Peter walked across that with
Speaker 1: a sixteen inch foot with a probably six inches wide
Speaker 1: and a stride a step length of about you know,
Speaker 1: forty eight to fifty inches long, and so were the
Speaker 1: crazy thing about that was that so we were like, wow,
Speaker 1: this is amazing. So we were getting kind of excited
Speaker 1: about that, and we go back when we came back
Speaker 1: the next day to look at it and inspect it
Speaker 1: some more. And the interesting thing was that the middle
Speaker 1: that the third step had disappeared. It had been reabsorbed
Speaker 1: you know, by the marsh, and we took a picture
Speaker 1: and we took a picture of that. So that was
Speaker 1: kind of like, okay, this is going to disappear in
Speaker 1: twenty four hours. Yeah, then that has to be recent.
Speaker 1: That has to be you know, within twenty four hours
Speaker 1: that that was made.
Speaker 2: You know, for us, I saw a photo I believe,
Speaker 2: of that trackway that you're talking about, and it's definitely bipedal.
Speaker 2: I mean, anything with four legs leaves a very definite trail,
Speaker 2: especially through a spot like that, and the telltale signs
Speaker 2: of a four legged animal going through. There were just
Speaker 2: not there, not there at all.
Speaker 3: And it looked like right left, right left, you know
Speaker 3: exactly what you're saying, by pedal. It it did look
Speaker 3: by pedal. So, you know, we see that, go back
Speaker 3: to camp, decide that's where we're gonna kind of concentrate
Speaker 3: our efforts. We had a couple of days left. Next
Speaker 3: day we decided to go out there kind of close
Speaker 3: to the Marshy area and just kind of sit and
Speaker 3: listen to, you know, what was happening around. And David
Speaker 3: had these sound amplification headphones and he was probably seventy
Speaker 3: five yards away from me, up against a log, just
Speaker 3: sitting there. And I was sort of off the trail
Speaker 3: it sort of sitting.
Speaker 4: Under a bush, and I could see him, he could
Speaker 4: see me.
Speaker 3: We could probably see, I don't know, two hundred and
Speaker 3: forty degrees each of us around. And we sat there
Speaker 3: for about an hour. And with these headphones, we could
Speaker 3: literally I could whisper and he could hear me and
Speaker 3: buy some versus so we could converse without making too
Speaker 3: much noise, and we could hear things off in the
Speaker 3: distance kind of moving around. But we had no idea
Speaker 3: We couldn't tell us bipedal by what we could hear,
Speaker 3: but things were definitely moving around us. And finally, after
Speaker 3: about an hour, I noticed that they're you know, close
Speaker 3: to him. There was this what looked like a broken
Speaker 3: tree just across from the marsh, and I had never
Speaker 3: noticed it before, but just sitting there for an hour,
Speaker 3: I finally was staring at this thing. And it was
Speaker 3: under the canopy of a redwood tree, and you know,
Speaker 3: the canopy of a redwood tree. He's probably you know,
Speaker 3: fifty feet at least across, and not much grows underneath.
Speaker 3: It cannot be of a redwood tree because of the
Speaker 3: you know, there's no light number one, number two, all
Speaker 3: the pine needles. Kind of never tried to grow grass
Speaker 3: underneath a pine tree. It just just doesn't happen, you know.
Speaker 3: So it caught my caught my attention being in a
Speaker 3: weird spot. Maybe it was a tree that had just
Speaker 3: been broken off by something. But when we decided we
Speaker 3: were done listening, I kind of walked up to this
Speaker 3: thing and David's looking at me, like, what are you doing?
Speaker 3: And I just started looking at it. And it didn't
Speaker 3: widen out at the base like a tree kind of wood,
Speaker 3: and I started moving it and there was a little
Speaker 3: micro emotion, and pretty soon I had the thing loose
Speaker 3: and I pulled it out and it was not a stump.
Speaker 3: It was clearly broken both ends and had been jammed
Speaker 3: in the ground about six in and it was sticking
Speaker 3: up about three foot out of the ground. So you know,
Speaker 3: something had taken this three and a half foot long
Speaker 3: stick and jammed in the ground. And it was literally
Speaker 3: right across from the marsh. And you know, part of
Speaker 3: what caught my attention not only you know, what would
Speaker 3: something grow under the canopy of a redwood tree, but
Speaker 3: I had seen on YouTube other people describing sticks being
Speaker 3: stuck in the ground, or trees even being upturned and
Speaker 3: upside down and jammed into the ground, and you know,
Speaker 3: obviously maybe something could have done it when it was muddy,
Speaker 3: but I took that thing out. David has a video
Speaker 3: of me trying to jam that thing in the ground
Speaker 3: with the sharp end, and I didn't make it damp,
Speaker 3: So if it didn't happen when it was muddy, something
Speaker 3: it took a lot of force to jam that thing
Speaker 3: six inches into the ground. So it was literally right
Speaker 3: across from the marsh where whatever had you done those
Speaker 3: three steps in the marsh and crossed came out onto
Speaker 3: the trail. But you know, I know we're kind of
Speaker 3: making an assumption here, but it was as if it
Speaker 3: was a marker as to where it to cross the
Speaker 3: main trail.
Speaker 2: Could you tell what kind of tree it was?
Speaker 1: It?
Speaker 3: So yeah, we looked, Well, no, we could not tell,
Speaker 3: but we did look around. You know, it clearly was
Speaker 3: not a redwood. It was not a branch that had
Speaker 3: fallen out of the redwood tree. Yet it was under
Speaker 3: the canopy of a redwood tree. So then we're looking
Speaker 3: around to see if any of the trees around it
Speaker 3: had a branch that size that had broken, or if
Speaker 3: there was a stump around or anything like that. Just
Speaker 3: like David said, we looked for that stump of that
Speaker 3: elevated tree. We could not find the source of that tree.
Speaker 3: So this, you know, I guess you'd call it a
Speaker 3: log more than anything. It was probably four inches in
Speaker 3: diameter and about three and a half feet you know long.
Speaker 3: My guess is it probably weighed about thirty pounds, not
Speaker 3: heavy by any means, but we could not find a
Speaker 3: place where it had come from. So whatever I had
Speaker 3: put it in the ground, you know, from what we
Speaker 3: could see, had brought it from somewhere deeper in the forest.
Speaker 2: I mean that, you know, as far as I'm aware of,
Speaker 2: that takes hands. So you're limited down to either humans
Speaker 2: or bigfoot at that point. And I don't see a
Speaker 2: human just carrying around a log like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we our last story of California. It was the
Speaker 3: last morning. As David said, we had set up our
Speaker 3: base camp about five or six miles in from the trailhead,
Speaker 3: and we took all our day trips out of there,
Speaker 3: come back at night. Well, last morning we were planning
Speaker 3: on leaving. We both woke up about six am, got
Speaker 3: out of our tents. About five minutes later. I decided
Speaker 3: to put on some water to get our coffee going.
Speaker 3: And we had sort of set up our backpacking stove
Speaker 3: underneath the canopy of another redwood that was in our
Speaker 3: base camp. It was probably thirty feet or so from
Speaker 3: our tent, and so I started pouring water into a pot,
Speaker 3: and all of a sudden, the pine cone lasts or
Speaker 3: lands right near my left foot. Okay, no big deal,
Speaker 3: I'm under the canopy of a redwood tree. A redwood
Speaker 3: tree has pine cones. There are hundreds of pine cones
Speaker 3: on the ground all around us. Well, about three seconds later,
Speaker 3: before I even light the fire, another one lands by
Speaker 3: my right foot. Well, again, didn't take much of it.
Speaker 3: And David's standing under the canopy maybe eight feet from me,
Speaker 3: and he's seen all this happen, but you know, still
Speaker 3: could be natural. Two pine cones fall, but we looked
Speaker 3: up and you know, there's not a breath of wind
Speaker 3: in the air whatsoever. So I go to sit down
Speaker 3: in my little backpacking camp chair about eight feet away,
Speaker 3: and the same thing happens. Now I'm sitting down and
Speaker 3: it's like a perfect myss. One pine cone lands by
Speaker 3: my right foot and one pine cone lands by my
Speaker 3: left foot, and you know, I'm looking up into the tree,
Speaker 3: and David decides to back up into the opening, and
Speaker 3: he can kind of tell you what he was looking for.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, when I first the first one didn't there,
Speaker 1: didn't even think anything of it. When the last two
Speaker 1: almost hit him. When he's sitting in a chair, I'm like,
Speaker 1: what the heck is going And I start looking up
Speaker 1: at the tree and I couldn't see much, so I
Speaker 1: started back I backed off about been twenty feet to
Speaker 1: get out from underneath the canopy. And I'm sitting here
Speaker 1: looking up in the tree and trying to see it.
Speaker 1: I'm under open sky and trying to look up as
Speaker 1: far as I could to see it. I don't see
Speaker 1: any squirrel I had seen. I seen a squirrel like
Speaker 1: fifty feet away in the opposite direction in a tree,
Speaker 1: but not up in that tree. And all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: a pine cone lands by my foot, and then then
Speaker 1: another pine cone lands on my foot, and I'm in
Speaker 1: the open there's nothing on it, there's nothing above me,
Speaker 1: and I what the heck? And as soon as that happened,
Speaker 1: I think both of us it was just I can
Speaker 1: still see us, both of us realizing that this is
Speaker 1: not natural. And we both stood up and turned to
Speaker 1: our you know, my left is right looking up the
Speaker 1: ridge above our camp. At the same time, we just
Speaker 1: both turned up, and immediately it stopped, and I was
Speaker 1: I started looking at these things and realized that two
Speaker 1: or three of these pine cones are actually green, And
Speaker 1: you know, we took a picture of one to sow
Speaker 1: that it was green, and it was like, how the
Speaker 1: heck are green pine cones? Falling out of a tree
Speaker 1: unless you got some sniper squirrel, you know, that's throwing
Speaker 1: pine cones at us, you know, you know from there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, that was about you know, seven or eight
Speaker 1: pine cones. That seemed the only thing you could say
Speaker 1: was thrown at us, you know, at six in the
Speaker 1: morning and you're like like six miles into somewhere. Someone
Speaker 1: would have if someone's you know, punking us or something.
Speaker 1: You know, we had trail camps up on the trail.
Speaker 1: We didn't see anybody coming in. They would have to
Speaker 1: hike in at six in the morning, probably leave at
Speaker 1: two in the morning just to go do that, you know,
Speaker 1: hike in, throw pine cones and leave. Because we packed
Speaker 1: up after you know that, and started heading out in
Speaker 1: the morning, and we didn't run into anyone for about
Speaker 1: three or four miles until we were almost out.
Speaker 3: You know, when those people, those people that we ran
Speaker 3: into had not been camping. They both had a water
Speaker 3: bottle and a granola bar. They had just come into
Speaker 3: the to the trail had about eight in the morning.
Speaker 3: They said they were just scouting for a camping site
Speaker 3: for the next weekend, so they didn't you know, they
Speaker 3: had not camped there overnight. There's no way that these guys,
Speaker 3: like I said, unless they had been there two in
Speaker 3: the morning at the trail ahead, walked in and then
Speaker 3: walked back out and then walked out towards the wilderness
Speaker 3: again to see us. Could they have pumped us and
Speaker 3: I you know, they just didn't have the equipment there.
Speaker 3: It was a married couple. I just can't see a
Speaker 3: married couple getting there at two in the morning and
Speaker 3: just just happening to find somebody camping and decide to
Speaker 3: throw pine cones at them when they get up at
Speaker 3: six in the morning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody's doing that. I mean, in an area like that,
Speaker 2: most of the people there, the vast majority of people
Speaker 2: there are going to kind of be under the same
Speaker 2: mindset and they're not going to be messing with people.
Speaker 2: They're not, you know, they're trying to avoid people. That's
Speaker 2: why they go there. Uh, the idea to like start
Speaker 2: throwing pine cones at somebody from the bush, says, I don't.
Speaker 2: I don't think anybody would do that.
Speaker 1: We hadn't heard of that before. And what was interesting
Speaker 1: was afterward, you know, we started seeing some comments or
Speaker 1: maybe you just don't even think about It's like when
Speaker 1: you buy a car, you start seeing that car all
Speaker 1: over the place. But you know, we had we started
Speaker 1: hearing people mention that they had had pine cones, you know,
Speaker 1: throwing that, and that's what happened that anyway, that was that.
Speaker 3: Was our California experience over about fighting and here we are,
Speaker 3: we're rookies. We're going into this not trying, not believing
Speaker 3: we'll find anything. And we had talked going up. I
Speaker 3: was more of a skeptic than David. Obviously he had
Speaker 3: a more you know, seated, deep seated foundation on Bigfoot
Speaker 3: than I did. I My Bigfoot was learned through finding Bigfoot,
Speaker 3: and I was quite skeptical. But you know, after all
Speaker 3: that happened in our Californi on a trip, I was
Speaker 3: now at least open to believing that it was possible,
Speaker 3: if not probable, that there was a big Foot out there.
Speaker 2: I mean, those are some amazing experiences, especially for our
Speaker 2: first time out. I mean, those would have been amazing
Speaker 2: experiences for your one hundredth time in the field, you know,
Speaker 2: for a veteran bigfooter.
Speaker 3: Well, like we said, we were not expecting anything. You know,
Speaker 3: we kind of went into the thing. Yeah, we're going
Speaker 3: to go find Bigfoot, but but we pretty much decided
Speaker 3: we were just going to be two guys out camping
Speaker 3: and backpacking and having a good time, and if we
Speaker 3: found something, it was, you know, icing on the cake.
Speaker 2: Did you guys get anything on your trail cams while
Speaker 2: you were there?
Speaker 1: The only thing we got was us. And the guy
Speaker 1: was the guy that we ran into him one day
Speaker 1: that we were He was coming in and just coming
Speaker 1: in overnight, and and then he walked out the same
Speaker 1: we saw him going in, we saw him going out.
Speaker 1: We talked to him both times, so we knew when
Speaker 1: he was there, we knew when he when he left.
Speaker 1: And that was the only thing we got on the
Speaker 1: trail cams.
Speaker 2: Any signs of wildlife or anything.
Speaker 3: No nothing on the trail, no other no animals on
Speaker 3: the trail cam. So, you know, that was kind of disappointing,
Speaker 3: But then you know, we've obviously seen things where people
Speaker 3: have said, you know, possibly obviously nobody knows. Maybe Bigfoot
Speaker 3: can see that, you know, if they are out there,
Speaker 3: maybe they can see the infrared on the on the
Speaker 3: game cam and they avoid them. But no, no wildlife
Speaker 3: whatsoever we saw the whole time we were out there,
Speaker 3: and and we never you know, in fairness to our critics,
Speaker 3: we never saw bigfoot. We never got a picture of
Speaker 3: a bigfoot. But we had some crazy experiences that as
Speaker 3: guys who tried to explain things. You know, we're both scientists,
Speaker 3: we're both physicians. We can't explain them other than potentially
Speaker 3: if it was a bigfoot. And you know, we get
Speaker 3: a lot of joshing from our friends and family that
Speaker 3: you know, we've come to this conclusion even though we've
Speaker 3: never seen a bigfoot or got a picture of a bigfoot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but whenever it comes to this stuff, I call
Speaker 2: it the fifty to fifty rule, which is pretty much
Speaker 2: as good as you're going to get without having an
Speaker 2: actual physical sighting of a bigfoot. And that's whenever you
Speaker 2: get to the point where you're like with the log
Speaker 2: for instance, where it's okay, well this was either a
Speaker 2: person or it was a bigfoot, and then you just
Speaker 2: kind of have to go over the idea of like, okay, well,
Speaker 2: how probable is it that it was a human? And
Speaker 2: in everything you're describing there doesn't seem to be any
Speaker 2: signs of it being human as the cause.
Speaker 3: And that was basically our thinking as well, well, all
Speaker 3: the things that that we found kind of off that
Speaker 3: trail across the creek. You know, how do you explain
Speaker 3: an igloo made out of sticks that are weaved with
Speaker 3: no other sign of humans around. How do you explain that,
Speaker 3: you know, three steps across a twenty foot marsh with
Speaker 3: sixteen inch foot feet, How do you explain that log
Speaker 3: jammed into the ground exactly where that thing would have
Speaker 3: crossed the trail at it, you know, off that marsh.
Speaker 3: You know, there there aren't many explanations of that being
Speaker 3: human behavior.
Speaker 1: All those things who's throwing p Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, pinecones falling out of the tree is a pretty
Speaker 2: random occurrence, and just the sheer number and that amount
Speaker 2: of time, and the fact that they all landed by you, guys,
Speaker 2: and nowhere else that I mean, Yeah, something was throwing
Speaker 2: pine cones at you.
Speaker 4: And with no wind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean if you could expect it, if there
Speaker 3: was a thirty mile an hour wind and I was
Speaker 3: sitting under under a redwood, that, yeah, five or six
Speaker 3: pine cones might fall in a two minute period. But
Speaker 3: then even with that, if there was wind and there wasn't,
Speaker 3: I'd explained two or three landing all around David out
Speaker 3: in the open. You know, that would have taken a
Speaker 3: one hundred mile an hour wind to do that, and
Speaker 3: there was no wind, and you know the other things.
Speaker 3: As I think back on that experience, you know, they
Speaker 3: were like perfect misses if you would. We were never hit,
Speaker 3: but we were also whatever was throwing them sort of
Speaker 3: let us know that if it wanted to, it could
Speaker 3: have hit us. With those pine cones, they were all
Speaker 3: within a foot of us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't over like minutes, and this was within
Speaker 1: thirty sixty seconds that this happened.
Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, that's even crazier to get completely unscientific
Speaker 2: about it. Did you guys ever have a sense of
Speaker 2: like being watched?
Speaker 1: The only time I'd say is something is that when
Speaker 1: when we both turned to look up at that point
Speaker 1: when they started landing by me, I think we both
Speaker 1: felt something was there throwing things at us. Whatever it was,
Speaker 1: We both turned at the same time. We both had
Speaker 1: the same you know, I felt the sensation. We both
Speaker 1: looked in the same direction, you know, at the same time.
Speaker 1: We both you know, it was at that point I said,
Speaker 1: something is doing this, you know, And that was the
Speaker 1: only time that I would have felt.
Speaker 3: There was, you know, and I would say my turning
Speaker 3: and looking up there, you know. You hear a lot
Speaker 3: of people say that they they kind of felt that
Speaker 3: they're being watched the whole way in on a trail
Speaker 3: or something like that. I didn't have that feeling. It's
Speaker 3: just it was sort of a quick process of elimination.
Speaker 3: There was a creek behind us. Couldn't have come from
Speaker 3: across the creek because that was probably across the creek
Speaker 3: was maybe one hundred and fifty feet, so those would
Speaker 3: be some tremendous throws. So we were sort of surrounded
Speaker 3: on two sides by a creek behind us. The trail
Speaker 3: kind of flattened out off to our left, and we
Speaker 3: could see down there. There was nothing there. It was
Speaker 3: just more of a office of elimination. I knew it
Speaker 3: wasn't behind me on the creek, and I knew it
Speaker 3: wasn't down by the trail, So to me, it was
Speaker 3: just more process of elimination. I just sort of reasoned
Speaker 3: that it had to be up there. I personally never
Speaker 3: had a sense that something was watching me. I just
Speaker 3: had a realization that these pine cones were coming up
Speaker 3: from the ridge behind our tent.
Speaker 2: Did you save one of the pine cones?
Speaker 1: We didn't say that. I took a close up of
Speaker 1: one of the green ones because I was like, no
Speaker 1: one's going to believe that there's green pine cones, and
Speaker 1: I said, yep, I'm taking the picture of this one.
Speaker 3: And clearly, you know, we we admit we're trying our
Speaker 3: rookies at all. This this is our first trip. We
Speaker 3: had a lot of mistakes. We we didn't have a
Speaker 3: take measure to measure the you know, footprints, We didn't
Speaker 3: bring back one of the pine cones. We didn't have
Speaker 3: any audio recorders out. We just had game trail or
Speaker 3: game cameras, and we had some night vision infrared flear
Speaker 3: cameras that we never found anything on. But we were
Speaker 3: just kind of newbies out there again, not expecting to
Speaker 3: find anything. So yeah, we probably should have brought one
Speaker 3: of those home and maybe seeing if there was DNA
Speaker 3: on it or whatever. But but we were, in a
Speaker 3: real sense, just rookies at doing this.
Speaker 2: I just asked, because I've seen a few people with
Speaker 2: a rock sitting up on their mantles before that they
Speaker 2: brought home.
Speaker 3: From Yeah, we should have brought back We should have
Speaker 3: brought up trophy, but we didn't.
Speaker 2: I had a really good friend that was on an
Speaker 2: outing in Alabama, I believe, and they weren't even doing
Speaker 2: anything at the time. They were sitting around camp, round
Speaker 2: the campfire, and they thought that a rock had been
Speaker 2: thrown at them, and it kind of got their attention.
Speaker 2: So they're paying attention, and she said, the next thing,
Speaker 2: you know, this rock comes whizzing by her head and
Speaker 2: hits the tree right behind her chair, and you know,
Speaker 2: it hit pretty hard and it just landed right there
Speaker 2: on the ground next to her, and she took it
Speaker 2: home with her. So I understand completely. I've also experienced
Speaker 2: the whole rock throwing thing myself, and the whole perfect
Speaker 2: miss concept is exactly what it seems like they do.
Speaker 2: I can't believe that they can't hit you. I just
Speaker 2: choose that they choose not to hit you. But yeah,
Speaker 2: it's weird how they do that. Do you guys have
Speaker 2: any theories on the purpose us of that. Do you
Speaker 2: think they're just trying to get your attention or mess
Speaker 2: with you or see how you'll react. What do you
Speaker 2: think they're doing that for? If they are responsible for it, I.
Speaker 1: Think it'd be you know, an attention thing. Okay, this
Speaker 1: is already you know, we've been walking around the area
Speaker 1: where they've been walking, you know, walking, you know, on
Speaker 1: their game trails and things like that.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I kind of have the same
Speaker 3: thought as David. You know, none of that happened until
Speaker 3: we crossed the creek. Once we did that, you know,
Speaker 3: sort of the next day or the second time we
Speaker 3: went across the creek into their territory, found all these things.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Obviously this is just me assuming, but I think they
Speaker 3: were letting us know that they were around and this
Speaker 3: was their territory. Now, obviously I have no knowledge of
Speaker 3: what they might be thinking, but I think we were
Speaker 3: just letting us know. And as it turns out, it
Speaker 3: just happened to be the morning we were planning on
Speaker 3: leaving anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were going to leave anyway, guys.
Speaker 1: So no, really, we.
Speaker 3: Had planned I had to be back to work on Monday.
Speaker 3: This was Friday. We had a two day drive out
Speaker 3: and then I had a plane plane to leave, so
Speaker 3: we had kind of planned on leaving on the Friday.
Speaker 3: No matter what. They just, you know, maybe if we
Speaker 3: had planned on saying on Saturday, who tell Saturday. Who knows,
Speaker 3: Maybe we would have left on Friday anyway, but because
Speaker 3: of the pine pine cones, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that next night could have gotten real interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't lead because of the pinecones. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask a question about the piles of
Speaker 2: scott that you found. Where were these in relation to
Speaker 2: the shelter all around?
Speaker 3: I mean I was in forty or fifty feet and
Speaker 3: they were not in the same area. I mean it
Speaker 3: was literally so to circumferential around the dwelling. So it
Speaker 3: was kind of as if whatever decided to have to
Speaker 3: go to the bathroom in the middle of the night
Speaker 3: or whatever just decided. Well, I went, you know, to
Speaker 3: the right yesterday, now I'm going to the left today.
Speaker 3: There there was, like I said, six or eight piles
Speaker 3: and they were just literally scattered all around.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Like I said, in our camp, we all went in
Speaker 3: one place, so we knew to avoid it, knew we
Speaker 3: didn't want to step in it, knew we didn't want
Speaker 3: to smell it. These were all around the camp.
Speaker 2: David, I'm going to put you on the spot since
Speaker 2: you brought up Tom Brown Junior earlier, any idea on
Speaker 2: how old the scout was.
Speaker 1: I would, you know, and looking at it, it wasn't
Speaker 1: like wet per se. I would probably think a week
Speaker 1: or two weeks, you know, something that wasn't It wasn't
Speaker 1: like not like I dried, you know, like falling apart dry.
Speaker 1: But you know, definitely in the medium time i'd see
Speaker 1: medium time dream.
Speaker 2: Just in terms of speculation, my mind is kind of
Speaker 2: going to an area of it was possibly used as
Speaker 2: like sort of a boundary marker around the shelter, kind
Speaker 2: of a you know, stay away, i'm here type thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Could be they were all, you know, all probably in
Speaker 3: a fifteen to seventy five foot radius around around the dwelling,
Speaker 3: so could be. And like you said, they're they're not
Speaker 3: in one spot, so they did go all around. So
Speaker 3: maybe maybe it wasn't random. Maybe it was sort of
Speaker 3: a hey, this is my territory, don't come in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so weird. I've just never I have never
Speaker 2: heard anybody find something like that before.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had neither know our research and you know,
Speaker 3: crazy crazy finding. We certainly were not expecting to find it.
Speaker 3: And we do have some pictures at least of the
Speaker 3: Igloo structure. I can't remember. I maybe David took some
Speaker 3: pictures of the scat. I don't don't really remember about
Speaker 3: that though.
Speaker 2: So you guys weren't finished though, And I mean, as
Speaker 2: crazy as all that stuff is and as remarkable as
Speaker 2: it is, the next trip was pretty interesting as well.
Speaker 2: Well did you guys just have bigfoot fever at that
Speaker 2: point and had to get back out there? How long
Speaker 2: was it before you were in Washington?
Speaker 1: It was about two years later. We definitely were like, hey,
Speaker 1: we got to do this again. We were excited about
Speaker 1: we had what we had, so we I was in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two and we did the California trip, and
Speaker 1: then this year was when we decided to go again.
Speaker 1: So probably January of this last year we started planning it.
Speaker 1: During decide, hey, when we want to go. You know,
Speaker 1: we had talked before about when to do it and
Speaker 1: were pretty much the same week we were. We always
Speaker 1: try to do it before hunting season starts. You know,
Speaker 1: I just don't want to be out there, you know,
Speaker 1: during hunting season, your season and things like that. So
Speaker 1: we try to decide, Okay, where do we want to go?
Speaker 1: Do you want to go the same place? Do we
Speaker 1: want to do something different. We thought about going to
Speaker 1: Canada and and I was like, I wouldn't mind going
Speaker 1: to Canada, you know, but it's there's difficult getting guns
Speaker 1: and stuff up there, and you know, I feel like
Speaker 1: I need to have my self protection and stuff with there.
Speaker 1: So we said, okay, let's not do Canada. We looked
Speaker 1: at Alaska, a long ways to go, so we thought, hey,
Speaker 1: how about Oregon or Washington? You know, so that's kind
Speaker 1: of we decided to go from there.
Speaker 3: Like David said, we started our research. We've you know,
Speaker 3: David had done most research for the California trip and
Speaker 3: finding a spot. I semi retired in January, so I
Speaker 3: have work about halftime, and I have more time now.
Speaker 3: I started, you know, scrubbing YouTube and trying to find
Speaker 3: people who had been in Washington. And you know, obviously
Speaker 3: I realized pretty quickly that Washington had more sightings than
Speaker 3: any other the lower forty eight states. I think at
Speaker 3: the time I started looking the BFROS that there were
Speaker 3: six hundred and seventy six Class A and Class B sidings.
Speaker 3: And those are just the ones that were reported to
Speaker 3: the bf R. You know, there's obviously many that go
Speaker 3: unreported so we figured Washington would be, you know, relatively
Speaker 3: easily accessible. Then we started looking at the population. We
Speaker 3: wanted to try to get, you know, as far away
Speaker 3: from population as we could. And fifty products and eighty
Speaker 3: percent of the population of Washington's on the west third
Speaker 3: and a half of Wassington and only twenty percent on
Speaker 3: the eastern half, So we kind of concentrated on the
Speaker 3: eastern half of Washington. And then I started finding videos
Speaker 3: on YouTube. But one of them is from Grassman fifty eight.
Speaker 3: That's his title. I think his name's Will Palmer. I
Speaker 3: don't know if you know him, but he has a
Speaker 3: number of videos. He describes a corridor sort of starting
Speaker 3: in northeastern Washington where we were, and I think he
Speaker 3: describes four zones going south through Washington. He describes him
Speaker 3: as A, B, C, and D, so I think we
Speaker 3: ended up in his A zone. And he has a
Speaker 3: number of videos and a lot of them are concentrated
Speaker 3: around Bullivan Lake, which is the northeastern corner of Washington,
Speaker 3: and he has some specifically along the Sullivan Creek which
Speaker 3: feeds into Sullivan Lake, and there's a campground that has
Speaker 3: eighteen spots and they're sort of spread out over about
Speaker 3: twelve miles or so along Sullivan Creek Road, and he
Speaker 3: has videos specifically having quite a bit of activity near
Speaker 3: the end of those campgrounds, specifically in Ampsite seventeen. I
Speaker 3: think he has a whole video located in that area.
Speaker 3: And he seems pretty reasonable. You know, a lot of
Speaker 3: people on YouTube are how what should I say, enthusiasts
Speaker 3: to every little sound is bigfoot and every little you know,
Speaker 3: crack in the woods is big footed. But he seemed
Speaker 3: very reasonable on his videos. And he even has a
Speaker 3: video of he left out his incorrect camera one night
Speaker 3: winning across the small Lake. I don't think it was
Speaker 3: near Sullivan Lake, but small little Lake. He just left
Speaker 3: it out at night, and at two in the morning
Speaker 3: he saw two upright individuals come out of the forest
Speaker 3: and start rummaging on the shoreline. They stayed out about
Speaker 3: an hour or so and then went back into the forest.
Speaker 3: And he realized that the next day when he watched it.
Speaker 3: He went over there and there was no trail over there,
Speaker 3: and whatever had been there had been digging up clams
Speaker 3: in the middle of the night at two in the morning,
Speaker 3: freshwater clams.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: So yeah, So that was kind of our reason to
Speaker 3: pick northeastern Washington. I then went and called the ranger
Speaker 3: because I wanted to do my due diligence, and I
Speaker 3: asked him where we could camp that was sort of
Speaker 3: as far away from the other campsites as possible, but
Speaker 3: still we had access to the water. And the ranger
Speaker 3: suggested Gypsy Meadows, which is probably a mile or a
Speaker 3: mile and a half half campsite, seventeen further into the wilderness,
Speaker 3: but yet it had a bathroom maybe an eighth of
Speaker 3: a mile away if we beted it, and had fresh
Speaker 3: water with Sullivan Creek. So we sort of chose Gypsy
Speaker 3: Meadows as the place that we were going based on
Speaker 3: that Will Fomer's videos.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's that's when we decided to go. And
Speaker 1: you know, we you know, it was like, you know,
Speaker 1: we talked about all these camps and we realized that
Speaker 1: this was you know, it's a long like seventy eight
Speaker 1: miles up the dirt road, and the camps are all
Speaker 1: spread out. So when we got up to Gypsy Meadows,
Speaker 1: you know, it was we got there mid mid afternoon,
Speaker 1: you know, and we were we went to the end
Speaker 1: of the campsite that we were you know, the farthest
Speaker 1: into the meadows, found a nice camp side over there
Speaker 1: and set up camp there. We saw one guy in
Speaker 1: a trailer that was camp right in the camp round
Speaker 1: right before Gypsy Meadows on the same side. It is
Speaker 1: about an eighth of a mile from us. But you know,
Speaker 1: the meadow was about one hundred and fifty yards long
Speaker 1: and about fifty yards wide in that area, and you
Speaker 1: could it was right close to the creek. You could
Speaker 1: drive up right close to the creek and get water
Speaker 1: if you needed.
Speaker 3: So we started setting up camp and you know, after
Speaker 3: getting my tent up in ten or fifteen minutes, I
Speaker 3: start blowing up my airmattis with a you know, a
Speaker 3: little electric backpacking pump I have, and it makes a wine.
Speaker 3: The engine and the fan make a wine. As soon
Speaker 3: as I turned this on, we noticed that an owl
Speaker 3: in the middle of the afternoon our hoot at us
Speaker 3: from across the creek, maybe a quarter mile away. And
Speaker 3: it seemed a little stranger an owl would a hoot
Speaker 3: during the day. But we did some research and that
Speaker 3: was sort of the lower end of the range of
Speaker 3: the bard owl, and sometimes it's known to hoot during
Speaker 3: the day. So we didn't really think much of it.
Speaker 3: But as soon as I turned off the the motor,
Speaker 3: hooting stopped, and we kind of mentioned the hooting, not
Speaker 3: that it couldn't be an owl, but but hooting sort
Speaker 3: of came before everything strange that.
Speaker 1: Happened after that, and so we we didn't take much
Speaker 1: of that. When we first happened, Hey, it sounded like
Speaker 1: an hour, you know, it's just what started happening, you know,
Speaker 1: later really got kind of kind of nuts. But so
Speaker 1: we you know, we got there, we set up camp.
Speaker 1: We still had an hour or two. So we went
Speaker 1: you know, hiking at the end of the middle of
Speaker 1: the trail that goes out, and then we crossed the
Speaker 1: creek and started following some game trails and the things
Speaker 1: that we had found. And I found like a you
Speaker 1: know this time we're bringing you know, found a fourteen
Speaker 1: inch footprint and they go, Kurt, look at this, and
Speaker 1: it's just it's just out in the forced that it's
Speaker 1: not like a trail or anything. Found this indentation and
Speaker 1: you know, an inch or two depth, and when we
Speaker 1: stepped there, we're not making any dents in the ground
Speaker 1: with it. So that's interesting. It's a little bigger than
Speaker 1: what our shoe was, but it was a lot deeper
Speaker 1: than what we were doing. So the next day we
Speaker 1: decided to go back and I tried to cast that.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a great great print, but we'd never cast anything,
Speaker 1: and said, hey, it'll be good, good experience, you know,
Speaker 1: good practice. Let's you know, see what we can do.
Speaker 1: And hurt Us had brought in some you know, some
Speaker 1: apples and peanut butter. We decided to put a game
Speaker 1: camera on that area and put up these gifting things,
Speaker 1: you know, and see if we could draw something in,
Speaker 1: you know, with that look. You know, that night you go, okay,
Speaker 1: what are we want to do? You know this again
Speaker 1: was you know, fire season, so we couldn't have a fire.
Speaker 1: So we said, hey, let's still driving, you know, so
Speaker 1: we would go at night. You know, most of the
Speaker 1: nights we were there, we'd go driving on the road.
Speaker 1: You know, I had a camera on my truck, you know,
Speaker 1: pick up things that if someone's working run across because
Speaker 1: you never know, right, you know, and and stuff. So
Speaker 1: we'd go driving around and we drove up into you know,
Speaker 1: a trailhead area you know, one afternoon and you know,
Speaker 1: we hiked and you could see how desolate it was
Speaker 1: out there. You know. The only thing we saw one
Speaker 1: place was the fire lookout building way up on another ridge.
Speaker 1: But I mean you could see into Canada, Idahos, you know,
Speaker 1: about five miles away, just wilderness stuff, So it's just
Speaker 1: pretty pretty far out there.
Speaker 2: Any signs of people other than the guy in the trailer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were a few who had been up at
Speaker 3: the UH on the trail. We saw one guy hiking back.
Speaker 3: His car was parked up there at the trailhead, and
Speaker 3: we actually saw rangers up there on horses and they
Speaker 3: were off on the trail where it went off in
Speaker 3: the wilderness. They were just coming back as we went in.
Speaker 3: So yeah, we probably saw three other people. Now, the rangers,
Speaker 3: you know, we got back to them to the trailhead
Speaker 3: after we hiked, and they had loaded up their horses
Speaker 3: into their trailer and they drove back as best we
Speaker 3: could tell, clear to the ranger station which was at
Speaker 3: Sullivan Lake like fifteen sixteen miles away. Now where these
Speaker 3: other people went when they came out of the trailhead,
Speaker 3: I have no idea, but you know, their car was
Speaker 3: gone as well, So there were other people out there.
Speaker 3: But then that evening you know, we were not allowed
Speaker 3: to have fires, which is kind of disappointing. That's what
Speaker 3: you do at night around a campfire. As you sit there,
Speaker 3: it gives you warmth, and like watching the TV at home.
Speaker 3: And right before bed, that same owl across the creek
Speaker 3: started hooting a little bit, and it was kind of
Speaker 3: right as we were turning off the lights. And again
Speaker 3: we didn't think much of it. But that night, for
Speaker 3: whatever reason, the previous night, I'd on the right asleep,
Speaker 3: but that night I just could not get to sleep.
Speaker 3: I don't know if it was that I was on
Speaker 3: a mattress or what. And we probably went to bed
Speaker 3: about nine thirty. In about ten to twelve, I looked
Speaker 3: at my watch. I still wasn't asleep, and about fifteen
Speaker 3: minutes later, that owl started hooting again, and this time
Speaker 3: it just didn't stop. I mean it was like four
Speaker 3: hoops and then another set of four hoots. Wait ten
Speaker 3: or fifteen seconds.
Speaker 1: Do it again.
Speaker 3: And this went on for probably a minute and a
Speaker 3: half and there were no responses to his call or
Speaker 3: her call, and then the hoots started getting quicker. They
Speaker 3: sounded louder. I don't know if it had come closer.
Speaker 3: And then the hoots degenerated into what I clearly believe
Speaker 3: I heard were whoops, not hoots. They were whoops. And
Speaker 3: after a couple of whoops, all of a sudden, to
Speaker 3: our north, and this was off to the west. If
Speaker 3: we had heard this one owl off to the north,
Speaker 3: there was a response of hoots and it was a
Speaker 3: clearly a deeper voice. And then behind our camp upper ridge,
Speaker 3: there was another response and they were hoots. But once
Speaker 3: that whatever that being was owl or other, once it
Speaker 3: heard a response, it stopped hooting. After about two minutes. Well,
Speaker 3: you know, now I'm kind of wondering what this was.
Speaker 3: And again rookie mistake. We didn't have our recorders out,
Speaker 3: but I tried to go back to and next thing
Speaker 3: I know, it starts up again. I look at my watch.
Speaker 3: It's now about an hour later, and I hadn't fallen
Speaker 3: the sleep, same exact pattern you know, that started shooting.
Speaker 3: The hoots turned to loops. Once they got loops, the
Speaker 3: responses came back, and uh, next thing I know, it
Speaker 3: seems like it was only five minutes later, I'm being
Speaker 3: awakened by David. But I apparently had finally fallen asleep,
Speaker 3: and about two fifteen two thirty, he wakes me up
Speaker 3: and he found he had heard something even more astonishing.
Speaker 1: So there had I mean that afternoon another some other
Speaker 1: campers came in, or the couple guys showed up. We
Speaker 1: were about seventeen eighteen year old and then one that
Speaker 1: the other one was in his late twenties or so
Speaker 1: I would guess about that. But they were at the
Speaker 1: other end of the meadow, which was about one hundred
Speaker 1: and fifty yards away from us and stuff that. So
Speaker 1: I got woken up about one thirty year to somewhere
Speaker 1: in that time, and I started hearing this whoop, you know,
Speaker 1: the whoops again and it was but it was close,
Speaker 1: and it was it was loud, and you know, I
Speaker 1: get up started listening to this thing and it was
Speaker 1: moving and I was like, that is nuts. It was like,
Speaker 1: but it was going from right for the from right
Speaker 1: to left. If I was looking towards those guys camp,
Speaker 1: he was going from right to left and from the
Speaker 1: creek to the road and up the ridge up there.
Speaker 1: Would you say about a one hundred and fifty yards Curt, Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was easily easily, but this thing was moving and
Speaker 1: I would say as over fifteen or twenty seconds, this
Speaker 1: thing was moving from where the creek was where we
Speaker 1: would get water. I was like, whoop, poop, and then
Speaker 1: it started moving right I thought it was going right
Speaker 1: through those guys camp. I thought it was like right
Speaker 1: on top of them, you know, where your perspective where
Speaker 1: you're trying to see the sound. But right in the
Speaker 1: middle of all there was a whoop, whoop, whoop. All
Speaker 1: of a sudden, I hear this garbling that all I
Speaker 1: can describe it, right, you know, they sounds like share sounds.
Speaker 1: It hurts here sounds and it goes that is not whooping.
Speaker 1: And then they kept going. It's kept moving and then
Speaker 1: it got back to whoop, whoop, whoop, and admit it
Speaker 1: just went on up the ridge with it. And I
Speaker 1: was waking up. Chris, did you hear that? You know
Speaker 1: what the heck was that? And he comes climbing out.
Speaker 1: We looked down the meadow and these two guys are
Speaker 1: climbing out of their tent with their flashlights, looking around
Speaker 1: and seeing what the heck's going on. And so it
Speaker 1: was about to two o'clock to thirty, you know, at
Speaker 1: that time, and we didn't hear anything else after that,
Speaker 1: but I was kind of like, that is crazy, and
Speaker 1: again we hadn't had we hadn't you know, we're doing rookies. Again,
Speaker 1: we hadn't turned on our recorders that night, being it
Speaker 1: was the first or second night that we were there,
Speaker 1: and so we were like that is nuts. So we
Speaker 1: finally went back to bed, and then you know, the
Speaker 1: next morning, you know, we went.
Speaker 3: Up so reathfull night sleep obviously, but I went got
Speaker 3: back in bed about two or thirty, like David said,
Speaker 3: and we'd all been out, all four of us, looking
Speaker 3: around this meadow with our flat flights, trying to figure
Speaker 3: out what had made the sound. And I hadn't heard
Speaker 3: the Sierra sounds like David had. I had only heard
Speaker 3: the hoots and whoops, you know, at midnight and one o'clock.
Speaker 3: I must have fallen asleep in between, but eventually get
Speaker 3: back to bed, kind of in and out of sleep.
Speaker 3: Finally I see light coming in around six am, and
Speaker 3: I decided, I'm not sleeping anymore. I'm just going to
Speaker 3: get up and walk to a court or an eighth
Speaker 3: of a mile or so to the bathroom.
Speaker 4: And when I got down.
Speaker 3: There, the older of the two guys who had been
Speaker 3: in that and at the other end of the meadow
Speaker 3: was coming out of the bathroom, and I, I kind
Speaker 3: of wanted to ask him what's what he what his
Speaker 3: experience was, without you know, giving him a leading question.
Speaker 3: And I said, boy, that was kind of a crazy night,
Speaker 3: wasn't it. And he said, yeah, what was that? And
Speaker 3: I shrugged my shoulders and said, I don't know, just
Speaker 3: you know, trying to get him to to tell me
Speaker 3: what had happened. And he said, man, I think there
Speaker 3: was more than one of more than one of them,
Speaker 3: whatever it was, and they were right on top of him.
Speaker 3: One may have even been up in the tree above
Speaker 3: my tent. And he said they He said, they started,
Speaker 3: you know, running past my tent eventually, and then up
Speaker 3: across the little road going into the meadow, up the
Speaker 3: ridge behind your camp, and they were gone. And he said,
Speaker 3: and while they were running, they were barking. And I said,
Speaker 3: you mean like a dog and he said, well, not really,
Speaker 3: but that's the only way I can describe it. And
Speaker 3: so I said to him, well, can you imitate what
Speaker 3: you heard? And he kind of did his best, and
Speaker 3: it sounded he repeated exactly what David just did. It
Speaker 3: sounded exactly like the Sierra Sounds. So David had was
Speaker 3: still asleep, but we had confirmation that what David had
Speaker 3: heard was exactly what this guy had heard. And he said, well,
Speaker 3: what was that? I said, I don't know, but if
Speaker 3: you ever heard of the Sierra sounds and he said no,
Speaker 3: I haven't, And I said, well, what do you think
Speaker 3: of bigfoot? And he kind of had a nervous chuckle
Speaker 3: and shrugged his shoulders and kind of turned around and
Speaker 3: walked back towards his camp. Incidentally, I don't know if
Speaker 3: they had planned it. I didn't talk to him again,
Speaker 3: but shortly after breakfast they were out of there. I
Speaker 3: don't know because what they heard or that was their
Speaker 3: plan to only be there one night, but they were
Speaker 3: pretty much gone right after breakfast. So here at six fifteen,
Speaker 3: I talked to this guy for about five or ten minutes.
Speaker 3: David's asleep before I get done going to the bathroom.
Speaker 3: They both described that it went up this ridge and
Speaker 3: across the main road. So I walked out to the
Speaker 3: main road and locked up the road maybe one hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty yards, and that was probably about the level
Speaker 3: of our camp, you know, into the meadow. It was
Speaker 3: essentially parallel to our camp, and I noticed across the
Speaker 3: road a tree break that was about nine or ten
Speaker 3: feet up and it was clearly a tree break sort
Speaker 3: of pointing further into the wilderness. And it was right
Speaker 3: up against the road, was sort of right up against
Speaker 3: the incline that I would ask to make was at
Speaker 3: about fifty degrees, and something had sort of turned up
Speaker 3: the dirt up that you know, the grass and stuff
Speaker 3: up that incline, and this is not something that I
Speaker 3: would be trying to climb, but whatever had had come
Speaker 3: across the road literally went up the incline right next
Speaker 3: to this tree break. So I start thinking, well, there's
Speaker 3: got to be a game trail that they came, you know,
Speaker 3: from behind our camp up to the road. If I
Speaker 3: crossed the road and start looking, and sure enough, I
Speaker 3: find a game trail coming out. So I kind of
Speaker 3: mark it with a stick and make sure we can
Speaker 3: find it later if we set up there. And you know,
Speaker 3: even though it was maybe one hundred to one hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty yards behind our camp up to the road,
Speaker 3: this was dense forest. It was you know that saying
Speaker 3: you can't see the forest because of the trees from
Speaker 3: the road. I'm looking in I just see trees, you know,
Speaker 3: That's all I see. So I walk back to our
Speaker 3: camp and as I get to the meadow, David is
Speaker 3: kind of there looking in the grass that had been trampled,
Speaker 3: you know, trying to see what he could see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just trying to see if there had
Speaker 1: to be some type of tracks or something going across there.
Speaker 1: It's you know, there's multiple area that's like trampled down,
Speaker 1: but it couldn't get any definite you know, prints or things.
Speaker 1: But I said, we've had to be right through these
Speaker 1: guys camp. So it's kind of looking and we found
Speaker 1: a couple of game trails behind their camp. They crossed
Speaker 1: the road and went you know, across this meadow area
Speaker 1: that I was trying to look for prints and stuff.
Speaker 1: And then so we decided to start following this trail trailways.
Speaker 1: We got going and following, like, you know, hey, I
Speaker 1: think this looks open here, let's start going this way.
Speaker 1: And we started following this trailway. Then we end up
Speaker 1: coming on this we find this real huge X you know,
Speaker 1: of these trees, and we're looking at that and go
Speaker 1: look at this, you know, and it's a perfect X
Speaker 1: and these are large trees, and you know, we're trying
Speaker 1: to say is this normal or is this happened by
Speaker 1: stance or what was it that it? You know, two
Speaker 1: standing trees are you know about you know, six you know,
Speaker 1: six feet apart and about a foot thick, and they're
Speaker 1: bent over forming this perfect X, you know, and it's
Speaker 1: right on this game trail that we were tracking, you know,
Speaker 1: to go up there, and you know, the first tree
Speaker 1: had been pushed over, you know, had a rip ball
Speaker 1: on it, you know, it started coming up with it.
Speaker 1: It was wedged between two other trees. But the second
Speaker 1: one was strange was that in order for it to
Speaker 1: form the X, the tree had to be twisted and
Speaker 1: you could tell we took pictures of that, but the
Speaker 1: bottom of the tree wasn't being pulled up, but it
Speaker 1: was rotated and twisted. It's like you pull this tree
Speaker 1: down and push it over to fit between these two
Speaker 1: trees in order to form the sex. There's like no
Speaker 1: way that was going to fall that way, and it
Speaker 1: wasn't falling. It was still in the ground and you
Speaker 1: just pushed over and twisted. You could see the rotation
Speaker 1: in the bark at the bottom of the tree. You know,
Speaker 1: we're breaking off and rotating and that's not natural, you know.
Speaker 1: And what was crazy was that right after that we
Speaker 1: fall the trail. We ended up right where Curtis had
Speaker 1: marked marked his trail. Wow.
Speaker 2: An interesting point about the guy that you spoke to.
Speaker 2: I notice you said that he related that they were running.
Speaker 3: I think it's because of how quickly they moved. I mean,
Speaker 3: as David said this area, he was probably maybe thirty
Speaker 3: yards from the creek. But you know, from the sounds
Speaker 3: of what David had described, and this guy had described
Speaker 3: whatever they were had come from across the creek, and
Speaker 3: he was probably thirty yards from the creek, maybe a
Speaker 3: little more, and then another one hundred to one hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty yards up the trail. And by the time
Speaker 3: David gets out of his tent and wakes me up,
Speaker 3: nothing is heard. I never heard any of this. So
Speaker 3: whatever happened, No, it covered a tremendous amount of ground
Speaker 3: or they covered a tremendous amount of ground in fifteen
Speaker 3: twenty seconds. It covered maybe one hundred and fifty to
Speaker 3: two hundred yards. So I don't know, he didn't see anything,
Speaker 3: he just you know, heard I guess stomping.
Speaker 1: If you would.
Speaker 3: I don't know how football, I guess the better way
Speaker 3: of saying it. And because of the distance they covered,
Speaker 3: you know, he couldn't get out of his pant quick
Speaker 3: enough either to see anything. I think he assumed they
Speaker 3: were running. I really don't know. I didn't question him
Speaker 3: on that.
Speaker 1: I was moving fast, and you know, if I was
Speaker 1: looking at degrees on pointing it towards the creek, all
Speaker 1: the way to where it disappeared had to be within
Speaker 1: twenty or thirty seconds.
Speaker 2: Was this all open meadow or were there trees?
Speaker 1: No, it's well the meadow where their camp was. They
Speaker 1: were at the end of the meadow, so I had
Speaker 1: thought that it sounded like it was going right through
Speaker 1: their camp, but they said it was like behind, right
Speaker 1: behind them. And we did find those two large game
Speaker 1: trails that went from the creek right behind their camp
Speaker 1: across the entrance road that goes into the meadow, and
Speaker 1: that's where we started our trail and went up and
Speaker 1: found that X up there. So it was right close
Speaker 1: to them, but it was through the woods from the
Speaker 1: creek to where it got to the you know, the
Speaker 1: road that goes into the meadow.
Speaker 2: A couple hundred yards at around two two thirty in
Speaker 2: the middle in the morning burnband, so there's no there's
Speaker 2: no light, there's no light. So whatever it was that
Speaker 2: was traveling at that speed in Pitt's black darkness and.
Speaker 1: Then garbletalk, you know, and then back to eating, you know,
Speaker 1: as they went up the up the ridge.
Speaker 3: So that was world class speed basically, you know. And
Speaker 3: like I said, I hadn't hadn't heard all of that,
Speaker 3: but David's was twenty feet from mine, and literally what
Speaker 3: he told me was, you know, he'd heard these hoots,
Speaker 3: but once he heard it moving, he unzipped his sleeping bag,
Speaker 3: unlipped his tent and was at my tent. However long
Speaker 3: it takes to travel twenty feet and he's trying to
Speaker 3: get me up, and when I wake up, I hear nothing.
Speaker 3: So you know, whatever mind framed that is. You know,
Speaker 3: David said it was measured in seconds, not in minutes
Speaker 3: by any means.
Speaker 2: I mean, as someone who has heard the hero sounds. David,
Speaker 2: what did you think when you heard that?
Speaker 1: I was like, that is talking, you know, that was
Speaker 1: to me it was there was communication going on with
Speaker 1: being that fast across it, and it was like that
Speaker 1: was amazing. What did I just hear? And I go
Speaker 1: The on thing I could describe it was, you know,
Speaker 1: that came to my mind was, you know, the Sierra
Speaker 1: sounds sh sounds were a little more separated in the
Speaker 1: you know, in the conversation if you if you know
Speaker 1: what I mean by that, you know, you hear one
Speaker 1: and then hear another. This was like a they were
Speaker 1: just at each other right right, right right, you know,
Speaker 1: it's like right, you know, and then it gets back
Speaker 1: into the hooting.
Speaker 2: From your perspective, could you did it sound like two
Speaker 2: distinct voices?
Speaker 1: It sounded more than that. It sounded to me like
Speaker 1: there was like three different at least three different things going.
Speaker 1: You know. It was a it was a pack of something,
Speaker 1: you know. To me, it was all I could see
Speaker 1: was this, there's something group of something going across there
Speaker 1: and they're moving.
Speaker 3: Fast and and and then David's uh, you know, just
Speaker 3: to give him more creams to what he said without prompting,
Speaker 3: the guy had said they to me, and he said
Speaker 3: there was more than one of them. So and the
Speaker 3: interesting thing, you know, he thought one of them might
Speaker 3: at one point been in a tree up above him.
Speaker 3: And as David said they were stamped right on the
Speaker 3: edge of where the forest met the meadow. They were
Speaker 3: maybe ten feet into the meadow. Is all so very
Speaker 3: easily something could have been above them, or I suppose,
Speaker 3: you know, the other explanation for something being right above
Speaker 3: their kent not being in trigue maybe if something was
Speaker 3: ten feet tall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, we're not used to
Speaker 2: hearing things eight to ten feet off the ground, so
Speaker 2: right right.
Speaker 3: So whether something was actually in the tree or not,
Speaker 3: I don't know, but that's how he described it. And
Speaker 3: he definitely said they and them and it was not
Speaker 3: one of one. Whatever it was behind his tent that night.
Speaker 2: Did you guys stay any more nights after that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? That was like on the second night you know
Speaker 1: that we were there that that happened. It just kind
Speaker 1: of strange, you know, after we went the evening after
Speaker 1: we did that, we were broken up again by these
Speaker 1: hoots again coming across the creek. And I think Curtis,
Speaker 1: you heard something walking, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, about eleven thirty the hoots started across the cross
Speaker 3: the creek. I had a recorder out that night. I
Speaker 3: still I've had some technical issues. I haven't been able
Speaker 3: to listen to the whole thing. I had it down
Speaker 3: close to where that guy's camp was. There was a
Speaker 3: sort of a gypsy meadows sign that I had taped
Speaker 3: from my recorder to I'm still trying to get through
Speaker 3: it to see if it picked up these hoots. But
Speaker 3: about eleven thirty hoots across the creek, and then maybe
Speaker 3: five or ten minutes later, I hear something moving behind
Speaker 3: our tents up this ridge and I couldn't estimate how
Speaker 3: close it was, but it was close enough to hear,
Speaker 3: you know, football. Now, I can't say, even though I'm
Speaker 3: an orthopedic surgeon that I could say what was traveling
Speaker 3: there was bipedal, but something was definitely moving in the
Speaker 3: in the forest right behind us. And then you know,
Speaker 3: shortly after, maybe a few minutes after I heard this movement,
Speaker 3: kind of all hell broke loose with hoots all around us.
Speaker 3: And David could say more about that because they were
Speaker 3: real close to his tent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was about that evening. There was something that
Speaker 1: just was like ten yards from my tent and it
Speaker 1: was you know, there's like a post where you used
Speaker 1: to tie horses in the meadow, and I felt it
Speaker 1: was like right by that post, and it woke me up,
Speaker 1: and it just you know, and I was going, you know,
Speaker 1: we had started talking and are these things big fits
Speaker 1: or are they mimicking owls or what are they? But
Speaker 1: what is this sound? You know that we keep hearing
Speaker 1: and you know that they go to woops. So we
Speaker 1: did not know. But this thing was right outside my
Speaker 1: tent and it was loud, and I in the dark.
Speaker 1: I was like, do I turn on a light? Do
Speaker 1: I get out of my tent right now? After this
Speaker 1: thing is standing yeah, in the middle, in the middle
Speaker 1: of the meadow, not in the tree. It was like
Speaker 1: in the middle of the middle. And so I grabbed
Speaker 1: my phone and put the recorder on. I had planned
Speaker 1: to have it already ready to go in case something
Speaker 1: woke up. And by the time I turned it on,
Speaker 1: this this loud hoover had moved across the meadow and
Speaker 1: was still going, you know, and you know, I got
Speaker 1: some of those sounds, and it sounds like, you know,
Speaker 1: we we compare it to bar owls, but that's what
Speaker 1: it sounds like. But they eventually the end of the
Speaker 1: you know, some of the ends of the hooting kind
Speaker 1: of trails off and it becomes something different, and then
Speaker 1: that kept going on. Then we started hearing. I started
Speaker 1: hearing things further away, you know, towards the North Moor
Speaker 1: and then out behind our camp right then and so again,
Speaker 1: after a little bit, I got those sounds on my iPhone.
Speaker 1: You know, that was good. But the original, the one
Speaker 1: that was ten yards away, I'm like, so I get out,
Speaker 1: you know, I had my forty four, but I'm not
Speaker 1: do I climb out of it standing outside here, you know,
Speaker 1: But that was that was pretty you know, pretty freaky
Speaker 1: to have something that close to you yelling that loud.
Speaker 1: It was just a lot. It was tremendously loud.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I was awake, you know, I don't
Speaker 4: know anybody.
Speaker 3: Can stuff too. It was, like David said, close, It
Speaker 3: was not. When they started, they had been maybe a
Speaker 3: quarter mile away where everything had started before. But now,
Speaker 3: you know, I was probably twenty feet further from David,
Speaker 3: so maybe I was fifty feet from where it started.
Speaker 3: But something did answer it off to the north and
Speaker 3: off to the area where I'd heard football football off
Speaker 3: to our east. So anyway, one time the day before
Speaker 3: we had been one of our hypes come up to
Speaker 3: where an owl was up in a tree and it
Speaker 3: was probably sixty feet up in the tree, and when
Speaker 3: we got to within one hundred feet of it, it
Speaker 3: took off. It didn't want to have anything to do
Speaker 3: with us. And when it took those first four or
Speaker 3: five wing flaps from one hundred feet away, you could
Speaker 3: hear a whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. It you know, started to
Speaker 3: get up the energy to fly. And like David said,
Speaker 3: as this thing moved away from you know, right on
Speaker 3: the meadow just outside his tent, to across the meadow,
Speaker 3: there was no wing flap that occurred. I mean, whatever
Speaker 3: had traveled across that fifty yards without that same noise
Speaker 3: of the of the owl. So again, you know, we
Speaker 3: didn't pick up any pictures or or or anything like
Speaker 3: that on our game trails, but something got very close
Speaker 3: to our tents and then you know, we go back
Speaker 3: to bed the next but I didn't hear anything more
Speaker 3: of the rest of the night. David's been listening to
Speaker 3: his recordings and like you said, he's been comparing them
Speaker 3: to bar owls, and they're similar, but they're definitely different
Speaker 3: on his spectrum analysis. So you know, again that we're
Speaker 3: these owls, I don't think so because it didn't fly away.
Speaker 3: Owls don't typically run away, you know, and this spectrum
Speaker 3: analysis is slightly different. But the next morning we want
Speaker 3: both walked down towards the bathroom again and this little
Speaker 3: road that led into the meadow had been scraped, you know,
Speaker 3: out of the out of the forest, and it was
Speaker 3: essentially hard pack and we could stomp on it even
Speaker 3: on wet ground, and we wouldn't leave a footprint. But
Speaker 3: David's one truck had left a track and where the
Speaker 3: tired and it had chewed up a little bit of
Speaker 3: a dirt and there was a about an eighteen inch
Speaker 3: by six inch wet footprint right in.
Speaker 4: His tire track.
Speaker 3: And we hadn't seen it there before and it was wet. Wow,
Speaker 3: it was not it was not a big indentation, nothing
Speaker 3: you could could cast. It was just a wet footprint,
Speaker 3: which made us think it was, you know, relatively recent.
Speaker 3: And then we started searching around that area and that
Speaker 3: footprint basically was right next to another tree break that
Speaker 3: was about nine and a half feet off the ground. So,
Speaker 3: you know, if you believe in tree breaks as being markers,
Speaker 3: then this is potentially an area where whatever it was
Speaker 3: was used to crossing that little road that went into
Speaker 3: the meadow. You know, if not it was coincidental. But
Speaker 3: now we've found two tree breaks in within about one
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty yards, both of which seemed to mark
Speaker 3: a trail or at least a place where something had
Speaker 3: come out of the woods and crossed the road.
Speaker 1: The tree was alive, No, that that tree break. The
Speaker 1: tree was alive. Wow. And so that the tree, you know,
Speaker 1: the upper leaves and the break were turning yellow. They
Speaker 1: weren't like being dead for very long. But the branches
Speaker 1: below it, below the break, were still green.
Speaker 2: And you guys didn't notice the tree break prior to that, No, we.
Speaker 1: Hadn't seen that.
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean it wasn't.
Speaker 1: There, right, It was right that it was right by
Speaker 1: that foot you know, way that track was.
Speaker 2: And was the track where was the track in relation
Speaker 2: to the creek.
Speaker 1: It was in the same area where we had heard
Speaker 1: that pack go.
Speaker 5: Through, so maybe one hundred feet.
Speaker 3: From the creek.
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably in the direction in the direction of the
Speaker 1: road and then off to the main road towards the
Speaker 1: main road. It was the same area where we had
Speaker 1: heard that pack go through there. And the interesting was
Speaker 1: is like, why is there only one track. There had
Speaker 1: to be a huge, you know, stride in order to
Speaker 1: get from across the road to that one area. It
Speaker 1: just looked like a wet track. I think I sent
Speaker 1: a picture of it and put my foot by it
Speaker 1: to see how big it was. But it had to
Speaker 1: be a huge stride to get across just by one step.
Speaker 2: Were the vocalizations each night, starting around the same time
Speaker 2: and coming from the same general area.
Speaker 3: So the first night they started around midnight, and yet
Speaker 3: they were coming from the same area that we had
Speaker 3: heard that original hooting when I started up my airpump,
Speaker 3: maybe across the creek maybe, you know, sounds are sometimes
Speaker 3: hard to estimate distance, but I would say about a
Speaker 3: quarter mile away. Then that first midnight and one o'clock
Speaker 3: when I heard them before I fell asleep, they seemed
Speaker 3: to come from the same area, but again we're answered
Speaker 3: by something else to the north and the east. And
Speaker 3: then that night when the hoops started about eleven thirty,
Speaker 3: that first hoot was in that same direction. And you know,
Speaker 3: one of the days, while we had nothing else to do,
Speaker 3: we went off over that side of the creek and
Speaker 3: we could not find a trail, and we were basically
Speaker 3: bushwhacking it, and you know, I had my garment on
Speaker 3: just we make sure we get back to camp. And yeah,
Speaker 3: we were going slow and looking for things. But we
Speaker 3: went a total of three quarters of a mile out
Speaker 3: three quarters a mile back, and it took us over
Speaker 3: two hours to travel across the creek, bushwhacking it over
Speaker 3: deadfall and all these other things. And so that's the
Speaker 3: only thing we could find up there. And then on
Speaker 3: a map there are no trails up on that side
Speaker 3: of the creek whatsoever. It's just as best we could
Speaker 3: tell wilderness.
Speaker 2: Wow, my brain has just raised. I wonder if that's
Speaker 2: just like a maybe a travel route that they're taking
Speaker 2: that just happens to go through that meadow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has to be something, you know that's that
Speaker 1: X has anything to do with it.
Speaker 3: As I said, Will Fulmer has a video specifically on
Speaker 3: Campsite seventeen where he's had a lot of activity, and
Speaker 3: that is probably a mile from Gypsy Meadows maybe, so
Speaker 3: he's had a lot of activity right in the exact
Speaker 3: same area. So you know, maybe it is a a
Speaker 3: a roadway for him.
Speaker 2: Said to speak, Have you reached out to will about this?
Speaker 3: So I did send him a message on one of
Speaker 3: his videos and I emailed him, and that was probably
Speaker 3: three weeks ago. On his video. He kind of gave
Speaker 3: my my comment a like, and in my email I
Speaker 3: sent him basically what I had sent you are two
Speaker 3: Facebook posts that kind of listed everything, and he has
Speaker 3: not responded back to me, so I don't I have
Speaker 3: not been in touch with him, but basically he's kind
Speaker 3: of the reason we went to this area, just seeing
Speaker 3: his videos online and we've had, you know, some similar experiences.
Speaker 3: But as you may or may not remember, we weren't
Speaker 3: quite done amazing. As amazing as it sounds, we weren't
Speaker 3: done so that that day that he you know, we'd
Speaker 3: seen the we'd heard the hoots the night before, seen
Speaker 3: the wet footprint. Right around dinner time, we heard that hooting,
Speaker 3: but this time it started behind us up the ridge,
Speaker 3: not across the ridge, and all kind of let David
Speaker 3: take over as to what happened after that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were well, we were just relaxing in our hammocks,
Speaker 1: you know, and all of a sudden, you know, as
Speaker 1: the days had gone along, we start wondering, are these
Speaker 1: hoots big foot? You know, because of everything that's been
Speaker 1: going on all of a sudden, we hear this thing
Speaker 1: and it was we heard just loud hoo going on,
Speaker 1: just like I would estimate, only thirty yards up on
Speaker 1: the ridge behind our camp, which is you think, is
Speaker 1: that close, Curtis, Yeah.
Speaker 3: It was. It was closer than you know, it had
Speaker 3: been from across across the creek by by far.
Speaker 1: So as soon we heard that we were in our hammocks,
Speaker 1: we both we jumped out of Miami, let's go, and
Speaker 1: we grabbed our guns, grabbed our gear, and we started
Speaker 1: heading up that ridge in it. The call was coming
Speaker 1: a little bit from where we're looking at towards our camp,
Speaker 1: towards the main road. It was a little left to
Speaker 1: where the X was. But we started going up this
Speaker 1: ridge and you know, I grabbed my camera, my video
Speaker 1: camera had it on. I'm saying, I was thinking, we
Speaker 1: are close to something. We're going to see something right here.
Speaker 1: And we started hiking up. We've gone up. We'd seen
Speaker 1: some you know, deep inset footprints probably sixteen inches but
Speaker 1: they're about four inches deep on this ridge that we
Speaker 1: were going up there. And as we're going along, all
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know, we hear these three whoops.
Speaker 1: It's like definite woo woo, you know, in a different direction.
Speaker 1: And I turned to Curtis and said, I'm not getting distracted.
Speaker 1: I'm not getting pulled away in a different direction. We're
Speaker 1: going this direction, and but this is where we heard
Speaker 1: where we were, but we felt like we were being
Speaker 1: pulled in a different direction, you know, like something was
Speaker 1: trying to distract us and pull us in a different thing.
Speaker 1: And we kept going. We didn't We eventually didn't. We
Speaker 1: didn't see anything that time. We were going really slow,
Speaker 1: trying to you know, look in the area and film it.
Speaker 1: And then my video camera battery started going going out,
Speaker 1: and it was getting started getting dark, and we decided
Speaker 1: to head back. We had got we'd gotten. We heard
Speaker 1: the three loops were coming more from where we had
Speaker 1: seen the X, you know, in that direction. But I
Speaker 1: thought the wops were on the other side of the road,
Speaker 1: you know that from where they do were.
Speaker 3: And before we turned back, David may you probably remember
Speaker 3: these trying to say the direction we were heading, we
Speaker 3: found another tree structure that I can only describe as
Speaker 3: a teepee.
Speaker 4: Probably four or five twenty.
Speaker 3: Foot long sticks, branches, whatever you want to call them,
Speaker 3: all coming together at their tips, just like a teepee
Speaker 3: wood that you'd see in the movie, and that was
Speaker 3: the direction that we'd heard the first call. And when
Speaker 3: we saw that, and like David said, we now hear
Speaker 3: the roofs, we decided to keep going towards the teepee
Speaker 3: because we had seen that and we didn't. We sort
Speaker 3: of made a pact on our drive up. You know,
Speaker 3: we've seen people describe that they heard something, they'd go
Speaker 3: one way and then they might hear a tree break
Speaker 3: in another direction, like they were being distracted. So we
Speaker 3: had made a sort of a pact that if we
Speaker 3: hear something like that, and of course we never expected
Speaker 3: to hear a distracting call, we would keep going. But
Speaker 3: like David said, we didn't really find anything and went
Speaker 3: back to our camp. Now is pretty much dark, and
Speaker 3: you know, that night was pretty quiet. The next morning
Speaker 3: we got up about oh seven point thirty or so,
Speaker 3: he supped in and we both decided to walk down
Speaker 3: to the bathroom. And like we said, this whole week,
Speaker 3: there had been a guy in a trailer parked maybe
Speaker 3: one hundred feet past the bathroom, sort of in the
Speaker 3: last camping spots before he turned into the meadow. And
Speaker 3: we had waved at him a few times, said hi
Speaker 3: to him as we drove by or he was walking
Speaker 3: his dog. We said hi, but we'd never really talked
Speaker 3: to him. So David goes off to the bathroom and
Speaker 3: I decided to walk out past his trailer up to
Speaker 3: the main road. And you know, I'd always explored up
Speaker 3: the road. I decided, while David's in the bathroom, I'm
Speaker 3: going sort of down the road. And I went down
Speaker 3: about one hundred yards. Didn't find any tree brakes or
Speaker 3: any trails, so I kind of cut back into the
Speaker 3: campground there and the rest of the campsites were completely empty.
Speaker 3: And when I walked, I had walked past his trailer.
Speaker 3: Initially he was inside, and now I came back to
Speaker 3: his and he was outside, clearly looking around. And you know,
Speaker 3: this time, instead of saying hi, like we'd said four
Speaker 3: or five times before, his first words out of his
Speaker 3: mouth were, hey, is your Is your buddy dressed all
Speaker 3: in tan from head to toe? And I said no,
Speaker 3: First of all, I think he's in blue. I was
Speaker 3: trying to remember what David was wearing. I said, second
Speaker 3: of all, black.
Speaker 1: Pants and my you know.
Speaker 3: I said, second of all, he's still in the bathroom,
Speaker 3: and he said, well, I kind of saw you walk
Speaker 3: up to the to the road out of one of
Speaker 3: my windows, and I sat down, and about ten seconds
Speaker 3: after I sat down, my dog is just at the door,
Speaker 3: scratching and barking. So I get up, thinking that one
Speaker 3: of you guys had kind of come into my campsite.
Speaker 3: Which you know, like you said before, who's going to
Speaker 3: throw pine cones? Who's going to walk.
Speaker 4: Into some guy's campsite uninvited? Yeah, that's Steven in the morning,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 3: So he said, I figured one of you guys were
Speaker 3: in my campsite, and I said, no, I'm you know,
Speaker 3: just coming back from my walk down the road.
Speaker 4: He said, well, when my dog was barking, I got
Speaker 4: up and looked out the window.
Speaker 3: And something big and tan I just barely sought for
Speaker 3: a second, walked from the creek area to across the road.
Speaker 3: And again, you know, as I said before, where a
Speaker 3: road hadn't been scraped or a campsite made, the forest
Speaker 3: was very thick and you could just you know, when
Speaker 3: you look into something, all you see is trees. And
Speaker 3: he was only one hundred feet from the bathroom, and
Speaker 3: when he stood at the bathroom. You couldn't see his trailer,
Speaker 3: so what he had seen for a brief second was
Speaker 3: tall and big, and David's six floor and two hundred
Speaker 3: and fifty pounds. That's why he thought it was David
Speaker 3: and I had walked from the creek area to across
Speaker 3: the road. So David gets out of the bathroom and
Speaker 3: we start looking around, and of course we find nothing,
Speaker 3: and then we start we start talking to the guy
Speaker 3: and asking him what he had heard the last few days,
Speaker 3: and he was a second confirmation of David hearing all
Speaker 3: that ruckus at the edge of the edge of the meadow,
Speaker 3: even though he was a little further away than the
Speaker 3: other campers, where he heard the same stuff happening in
Speaker 3: the middle of the night, you know, some motion in
Speaker 3: the woods, calls and stuff like that. And then he said,
Speaker 3: you know, I've heard some weird things while i've been here.
Speaker 3: I've heard knocks. I heard a tree get knocked over
Speaker 3: off in in that wilderness area across the creek. And
Speaker 3: he said, I think I just saw bigfoot. You know,
Speaker 3: that's literally what he said.
Speaker 4: And I don't know how to dispute what he saw.
Speaker 3: We didn't see it. But there was no one else
Speaker 3: in any of the other campgrounds. And again this is
Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning, you know, coming from the wilderness
Speaker 3: across the creek and walking up to the road to
Speaker 3: that other area up the ridge where we had seen
Speaker 3: a broken tree before. So you know, we didn't see
Speaker 3: anything again but this guy. And when we were not
Speaker 3: trying to talk him into bigfoot, he kind of came
Speaker 3: to that conclusion himself that he thinks, for a second
Speaker 3: or two he might have seen a big foot because
Speaker 3: it was ten he said, from head to toe.
Speaker 2: I mean, what else could it have been? You know, Yeah,
Speaker 2: he knew what he saw. That's why he was hoping
Speaker 2: that you'd be like, oh, yeah, my friend's out here
Speaker 2: wearing a hooded sweatsuit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a tan jumpsuit from the head to.
Speaker 3: So that, you know, we were kind of getting ready
Speaker 3: to leave the next day, and that late afternoon David
Speaker 3: kind of had a thought remembering back to what we
Speaker 3: had found in California. And I'll kind of let him
Speaker 3: say what he was thinking and what we eventually found
Speaker 3: up there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, that day before when we had chased that
Speaker 1: that the thing I'm coming back. I had noticed a
Speaker 1: wet area, a marsh area off to the right boards
Speaker 1: of direction where we've seen the X, and I had
Speaker 1: just noted it in my head. And last day I
Speaker 1: told Curtis, say, hey, I want to go up and
Speaker 1: explore that marsh area again, just another track trap and
Speaker 1: see what we can find. And so I didn't want
Speaker 1: to leave without doing that. And so we go. We
Speaker 1: go walking up there. We come into the marsh and
Speaker 1: know and behold, I walked, I take it, come around
Speaker 1: a corner and I see these two footprints right in
Speaker 1: the mud. And I go, look at that. And we
Speaker 1: go over there and actually this time we had measuring
Speaker 1: tapes and things like that. I got to stick and
Speaker 1: mark them and measure them. When we got back where
Speaker 1: you know, our truck. But we found two footprints again.
Speaker 1: I measured them sixteen and a half inches long, and
Speaker 1: the stride was forty eight inches a stride with the
Speaker 1: you know, the step step link of forty eight inches
Speaker 1: to fifty two inches. And we started looking back behind
Speaker 1: it in line, and we noticed in the wet wet
Speaker 1: area where of that mars, we could see definite foot
Speaker 1: step disturbances, you know, because there's like you know, the
Speaker 1: the needles of the tree all fall in the water
Speaker 1: and they're all, you know, the whole place, all the
Speaker 1: water is covered with these needles except for where these
Speaker 1: footprints landed, and it's all disturbed and cleared up, and
Speaker 1: you could see that. And they're all about the same
Speaker 1: stride length and going out, and I said, look at that,
Speaker 1: there's one there, and we go back the same distance,
Speaker 1: there's another one. So you start, you know, when you
Speaker 1: start looking for the next track, you want to look
Speaker 1: at the same distance and see where you're you know,
Speaker 1: that's where you're start looking for evidence and stuff. And
Speaker 1: we backed up, we about five different steps so we
Speaker 1: could identify disturbances in that wet you know, water area.
Speaker 1: Then it comes into the mud where left that you know,
Speaker 1: first footprint we saw that we could see toes on
Speaker 1: and then the second one was forty eight to fifty two.
Speaker 1: And then we started walking further back in that same
Speaker 1: line and we found another one in another smaller wet area,
Speaker 1: going up a little incline that looked like we measured
Speaker 1: it again. It was sixteen and a half inches long.
Speaker 1: And that one we could definitely see toes in the
Speaker 1: ferns and things like that. So that was an exciting
Speaker 1: way to enter. You know, in our search at that Dame,
Speaker 1: we took pictures of all that and stuff, so that
Speaker 1: was kind of exciting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the interesting thing that one that was about
Speaker 3: one hundred feet behind was in the exact line of
Speaker 3: a progression of those other four And although they were
Speaker 3: wet and we couldn't cast them, there was definitely a
Speaker 3: print that you could see toes and you know, it
Speaker 3: was sixteen and a half inches long. As David said,
Speaker 3: we both wear size thirteen. I've measured my foot it's
Speaker 3: eleven and a half inches, just about or just above
Speaker 3: eleven and a half inches. Even with my shoe it's
Speaker 3: only thirteen thirteen and a half inches. And so you know,
Speaker 3: we like to we've been pretty lucky on our trips.
Speaker 3: But we've gone into all these trips, like I said,
Speaker 3: at least trying to rule out the possibility that these
Speaker 3: could all be human events. And that's sort of what
Speaker 3: science is all based on. They call it the null hypothesis.
Speaker 3: You know, you try to rule out that it could
Speaker 3: have happened randomly. Well, in this case, it's not a
Speaker 3: science experiment, but we tried to rule out whether they
Speaker 3: could or could not have been human. So when we
Speaker 3: got back civilization, I kind of looked up, you know what,
Speaker 3: what is a sixteen and a half footprint or sixte
Speaker 3: and a half inch footprint, And that's basically Shaquille o'nill's foot.
Speaker 3: His foot is sixteen and a half inches and he
Speaker 3: wears a size twenty two shoe. And I then start looking.
Speaker 4: You know, now I'm going down a rabbit hole.
Speaker 3: Is trying to figure out how cammon this would be,
Speaker 3: you know, barefoot, barefoot guy seven foot tall walking in
Speaker 3: the middle of the forest. Well, I find out that,
Speaker 3: you know, to be seven foot tall or above, it's
Speaker 3: only one person in two hundred and sixty thousand people.
Speaker 3: You know, it's very very rare. And then I said, well,
Speaker 3: you know how many people have world class speed? You know,
Speaker 3: to travel one hundred and fifty yards in fifteen seconds.
Speaker 3: And that's not even on the flat that's in the
Speaker 3: dark across you know, basically bushwacking and across the land,
Speaker 3: but even on a flat track. I googled you know
Speaker 3: how many people have world class speed? And Google couldn't
Speaker 3: answer it, but it said it is by far much
Speaker 3: less than one percent. So you know, if you take
Speaker 3: the one in two hundred and sixty thousand and say
Speaker 3: it's maybe a half percent chance that a person could
Speaker 3: run in world class speed.
Speaker 4: Now you're talking one in five million chants.
Speaker 3: That you know, a seven foot tall person could run
Speaker 3: a world class speed. And then you start thinking, like
Speaker 3: I said, in the dark, no flashlight, in forty degree weather,
Speaker 3: in a light rain, barefoot across you know, across terrain.
Speaker 1: That's just impossible.
Speaker 3: For a human. When we as scientists in medicine, when
Speaker 3: we look at two forms of treatment and try to
Speaker 3: figure out which one is better for a certain disease
Speaker 3: these or a certain entity, they study patients and they
Speaker 3: put them in one group, and they study maybe a
Speaker 3: different medicine and a different group. If there is less
Speaker 3: than a five percent chance that that could have happened
Speaker 3: randomly in science, that is considered statistically significant. In other words,
Speaker 3: there's a ninety five percent chance that that did not
Speaker 3: occur randomly. You change your medical treatment just based on
Speaker 3: a on a five percent chance. And here we have
Speaker 3: odds that even there was a person in the middle
Speaker 3: of the forest at much much less than one in
Speaker 3: five million. So then I start going to like I said,
Speaker 3: going down the rabbit hole, knowing that in orthopedics we
Speaker 3: have data analysis studies, and I start looking at stride
Speaker 3: length or step lean and even at Shaquille O'Neill's height
Speaker 3: is average walking, you know, from one heel of the
Speaker 3: right foot to the left heel, the middle of the
Speaker 3: left foot in one normal step is just under thirty
Speaker 3: six inches. So then I.
Speaker 4: Then and extrapolate from that.
Speaker 3: Well, what does a forty eight inch stride or step
Speaker 3: length mean? And if you use that same equation and
Speaker 3: go backwards, that means if it was a human, they
Speaker 3: were nine feet six inches tall if it was a human.
Speaker 3: So then I started looking up, are there even you know,
Speaker 3: what's who's the tallest human in the world? And the
Speaker 3: tallest person known in recorded time was eighteen eleven inches
Speaker 3: and he died in nineteen forty And the current tallest
Speaker 3: person alive lives in Turkey and he's eight foot three inches.
Speaker 3: So you know, to have something with a stride length
Speaker 3: that equals nine eat six inches in height doing all
Speaker 3: that stuff that we just described as signed is even
Speaker 3: though we haven't seen Bigfoot and we haven't taken a
Speaker 3: picture of Bigfoot, I think David and I are now,
Speaker 3: even though I was skeptical before our California trip, I
Speaker 3: think we're in the camp that Bigfoot was there, both
Speaker 3: in California and Washington. It's just that, you know, there's
Speaker 3: still the hide and Seek champions of the world and
Speaker 3: haven't completely been found. We have no other conclusion. I mean,
Speaker 3: the science, you know, just points to that there's no
Speaker 3: other no other thing that could have.
Speaker 4: Done all the things that.
Speaker 3: That we experienced, even though we did not see a bigfoot.
Speaker 2: I think you would also be fairly safe to say,
Speaker 2: I mean, even with your statistics, whenever a human reaches
Speaker 2: a certain height threshold, their athletic ability actually starts to decline.
Speaker 2: I mean, I can't imagine, you know that the guy
Speaker 2: that you were talking about, who is the world's tallest
Speaker 2: man that passed away in the forties or whatever, he
Speaker 2: definitely was not running, let alone at world class speed.
Speaker 2: He was barely able to walk, you know, So.
Speaker 3: There's no doubt. And that's that's often why you know,
Speaker 3: those tall guys often have very short NBA careers. I mean,
Speaker 3: Bill Walton started having bad foot problems he was six
Speaker 3: or eleven, and he was a great center for like
Speaker 3: his first three years playing in the NBA, and then
Speaker 3: he was a decent, you know, off the bench player
Speaker 3: for eight or nine years, but his feet gave out.
Speaker 3: He was not the same athlete after you know, two
Speaker 3: or three years of pounding in the NBA at the
Speaker 3: end of his career than he was at the beginning.
Speaker 3: So you're right. I don't see if it was a
Speaker 3: human that they could run one hundred and fifty yards
Speaker 3: in world class speed.
Speaker 2: That's just crazy. You guys really hit the jackpot. Do
Speaker 2: you do you have any plans of going back to
Speaker 2: that location?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we. Uh, we got asked to come
Speaker 1: up in video, do a video recording and tell our
Speaker 1: story in the spring, So I think we're playing them
Speaker 1: going up there in the spring. And you know that
Speaker 1: was Jonathan Jonathan jonathans us to come up and do that.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, yeah, I look forward to that. Any plans
Speaker 2: to go on any more outings at different locations, Yeah,
Speaker 2: we are.
Speaker 1: I think we're hooked.
Speaker 3: Nothing nothing in the book, nothing in the books, but
Speaker 3: we're you know, I can't imagine they will be as
Speaker 3: good or exciting of an experience of our first two trips.
Speaker 3: But even if they're not, Like I said, we kind
Speaker 3: of went into this just go camping with our best friend,
Speaker 3: and I think in a way we were lucky and
Speaker 3: blasted to have found what we found.
Speaker 2: Well, guys, I appreciate you coming on here and sharing
Speaker 2: your experiences and your stories and uh yeah, if you
Speaker 2: have any more, please feel free to reach out to me.
Speaker 2: I'd love to hear about it. Oh yeah, absolutely. If
Speaker 2: you've had an encounter with Bigfoot or something else un explaining,
Speaker 2: you'd like to share your story on Bigfoot Crossroads, email
Speaker 2: me at Bigfoot Crossroads at gmail dot com. Check out
Speaker 2: the website Bigfootcrossroads dot com. You can find links to
Speaker 2: social media, past episodes, merchandise, everything you need all in
Speaker 2: one place. And until next time, remember there's something in
Speaker 2: the woods.