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Speaker 1: So I got woken up about one thirty or two

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somewhere in that time, and I started hearing the woops again.

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But it was close, and it was it was loud,

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and it was moving. That is nuts. It was like

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woop woop was going from right to left, from the

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creek to the road and up the ridge up there.

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Would you say about one hundred and fifty yards curtain, Yeah,

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I would say is over fifteen twenty seconds. This thing

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was moving from where the creek was where we would

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get water. It was like whoop poop, prooper. And then

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it started moving right. I thought it was going right

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through those guys camp. All of a sudden, I hear

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this is garbling that all I can describe it? Right, raw, raw,

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Are you know if they sounds like er sounds that

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is not wooping? And then they kept going. It's kept

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moving and then it got back to woof woop woop,

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and and then it just went on up the ridge

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and I was waking up. Curs, did you hear that?

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You know what the heck was that?

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Speaker 2: I'd like to welcome Curtis and David to the show.

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I was introduced to these gentlemen via Jonathan Brown of

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the famous Brown Property in Washington. He spoke highly of

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them and suggested I should get in contact with them

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and have them on and boy, am I glad I did,

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because Curtis, you know, this is the first time I've

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talked to David, but you and I talked previously on

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the phone, and you guys have had some amazing experiences

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in what seems to be a relatively short amount of

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time for the big Foot world. Got you started personally

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interested in this topic.

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Speaker 3: Well, maybe just a quick little background. David and I

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have been friends for over fifty years. I'm two years

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older than David, but you know, we grew up together.

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We went to the same college, and it turns out

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we both went to the same medical school. Believe it

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or not, we're both physicians, so we like to think

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of ourselves obviously as men of science. But after medical

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school we sort of drifted apart. He ended up in

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Central California and I ended up in Phoenix, Arizona. Obviously,

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still friends, kind of friends that even though we might

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not see each other for a year or so, when

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we do get back together, it's like, you know, no

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time had been had we been apart. Now I really

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didn't have much of a background or thinking about bigfoots.

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All that game that start and tell you about his background.

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Speaker 2: If that's okay, Yeah, sure they have a jump on

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in Man, what got you started in this crazy subject?

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we occurious. We were best friends growing up.

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But as a kid, I was always interested in Native

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American you know history culture that studied it a lot.

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I was always the Indian when you played Cowboys and Indians.

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Used to make my own moccasins and the you know,

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hiking the woods and stuff. But I knew that every

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you know Native American culture you know, had some type

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of name for bigfoots, squatch, you know, hairy men, you know,

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things like that. I knew they had, you know, spiritual

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animals just like you know, bear, the coyotes and eagles

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and stuff. Getting older, I had seen the Patterson Gimbland film.

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I you know, I felt that was real. It seemed

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people try to debunk that as they got older and

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had kids. My own nephews, you know, my son Cody

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and Josh. I took them to Burnside Lake which is

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South Lake Tahoe area, and we actually heard some howls there.

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I took interest in tracking and you know, things like

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that in the in the woods and stuff. Read a

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lot of Tom Brown Junior's tracking and nature observation books,

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and that got me interested in me at you know,

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the outdoors and things like that. Yeah, very good, very

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good things I learned from that. So try to pass

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that on sometimes my kids and you know, Curtis and

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things like that when we're out. But I think all

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that made me, you know, at that point, uh, you know,

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a probable believer, you know, watch the shows, you know,

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find you know, finding you know, Bigfoot and now Expedition

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big Foot, things like that. So that's kind of where

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I got it.

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Speaker 3: And then mine mine wasn't as deeply seated as David.

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I I'd seen the Patterson give One film, but I

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was more of a skeptic, you know then you know,

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whatever you might we might think of finding Bigfoot, it's

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something that I watched, and I think the best thing

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about finding Bigfoot clearly they never have found Bigfoot in

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all their seasons, but it at least sort of brought

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it to the consciousness of prime time, you know, exposed

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interest to more people. And then on that was kind

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of my background. But on David's fiftieth birthday, he had

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to get together a weekend at his house and one

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night he said to me, hey, find a movie. I'm

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gonna go grab a shower, look on my DVR and

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see what you find, and when I get out of

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the shower, we'll watch a movie. Well I kind of

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looked through his DVR and he had a whole big

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section on all those things he just talked about, and

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so I realized, you know, where his interest was. And

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I had a little interest, but not the same as

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his by any means. And then three years ago, almost

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exactly to today, my wife and I was some friends

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went to Nepal and we were hiking over to Avers

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base camp and our guide just happened to be a

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Buddhist monk, and about a third of the way to

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has base camp, he took us into a temple and

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showed us a hand and a skull of what he

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described as being a yetti goal on hand.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And we couldn't touch them. They were behind glass, but

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I was looking at it from six inches away. And

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I'm an orthopedic surgeon. I know all about can anatomy

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and that that hand looked like a human hand, but

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it was probably twice as big, and the skull was

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probably about the size of a human skull if you

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added a football helmet to it, and the scalp part

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of the scalp was still there, and it was covered

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in really short brown hair. So you know, I really

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didn't have much interest in Bigfoot before seeing finding Bigfoot.

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And then I happened to see the doll in the

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hand of a supposed yetty. And so David and I

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had been the kind of friends, like we said, we've

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got to get together periodically on a guy's trip where

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we might go golfing or go see a sporting event.

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And after this he called me up and said, hey,

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let's go on another guy's trip.

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Speaker 4: And so I had said, well, why don't we go

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see if.

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Speaker 3: We can find Bigfoot? And that's kind of where we

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got started this.

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Speaker 2: So how'd you guys pick your first spot to go to?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, curse said, hey, see what you think of us.

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We felt like, you know, with California, it would be

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a good place to start, you know, close. So I

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began doing some research and stuff. I went to the

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VFRO website, looked up all the counties in California and

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how many different sidings they had and stuff, and you know,

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just with you know, Bluff Creek and all that with

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the Persians can win the history up there. Siske County

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had to me had the most sightings that I could find.

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So I said, hey, let's go up to you know,

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northwestern California. So after that I started looking on you know,

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backpacking and trails things like that, trying to find, you know,

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an interesting place to go. I mean, we were just

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in go backpacking with guys, you know, quote big fitting,

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but it was more to spend time with Curtis, you know.

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But I found this interesting trail called the Kelsey Trail

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was on the Smith River, which is about twenty six

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miles east of Christen City, and we had to go

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on this It looked like pretty desolate area. We had

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to go on the dirt road for like six miles

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and then the hike in was about six miles to

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where you know, I felt like we could camp and

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things like that. So we went into the trail head there,

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heading into the Siski willerness.

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Speaker 5: And I think, like David said, we kind of went

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into this calling it a big foot trip that we

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predomin we were expecting just a camping trip or a

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backpacking trip with friends. And I would say maybe the

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first three days we were there.

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Speaker 3: I think we were there six days and five nights.

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The first three days, you know, maybe we found some

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exes off in the distance and maybe a tree break

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here and there, but nothing we could really you know,

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honestly say, was anything other than just a natural occurrence.

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And you know, about the third or fourth day, I

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think David was looking at his maps again and he

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noticed that one of the trails, and we've been up

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and down the creek both north and south, looking all

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around every single day and evening, hadn't really found much.

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And he noticed that on the map there was another

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trail sort of across this creek, and so he suggested we,

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you know, take one of the days and go across there.

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And that's where we started finding some things. Yeah, there was.

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Speaker 1: Only one trail you know, in there and out. And

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so when we got in there, we found a great,

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a great campsite right on a peninsula by a creek,

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and you know, nice water and things like that in shape.

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But so we set up our game cams around the entrance,

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you know, and on that trail, so we knew what

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was going in and out and if anyone was around

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there and things like that. So in the whole time

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that we were there, we only saw we met one guy.

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He came in and he went out the next day,

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so we knew that there was no one else around

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with us. But so we started going up crossing the

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creek over and going up that trails. It was more

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into the wilderness area, you know, where the direction that

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it was heading. So we started seeing some like you know,

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suspicious things on you know, branches is like twelve feet

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high being broken off in ninety degrees and we had

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pictures of that curtis trying to reach it and things

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like that, and you know, other branches around, other trees

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being broken like, you know, maybe seven eight feet tall.

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One tree we found it was a big tree and

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it's it's hanging up in the air and it's had

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these other two vine trees wrapped around it holding it.

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But there's no stump, you know, and how the heck

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did that get there? You know, And we're looking around

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for the stump. We can't find it. We don't know

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where it fell from, but it's just hanging like you know,

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pointing up the hill and there was a game trail

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right beside it, and so it's just kind of interesting,

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you know for that.

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Speaker 2: Like, yeah, interesting to see a tree hanging in the air.

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Speaker 1: Wrapped it was like wrapped in you know, these these

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other these you know, things are weaved around and holding

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it up and it's like, that's weird.

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Speaker 3: And tie four or five feet off the ground, which

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is really crazy.

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Speaker 2: And it was pointing up the hill.

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Speaker 1: You said, Yeah, the top of the tree was pointing

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up toward up the hill and the bottom was you know,

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hanging like four or five feet up the ground with

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these branches wrapped around holding it up. And I had

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no idea how it could be twisted like that, you know,

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like if you were going to hold it up and

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pull these branches and wrap the branches around each other

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to hold up this tree. It was. It's strange, and

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we had a picture of it. It's kind of I

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don't know how that happens, especially where the tree comes

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from down the hill or up till there's no there

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was no stump that it came from.

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Speaker 3: And then we started finding other weird things. We noticed

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on a couple of different trees that there were you know,

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four or five foot long branches that were sort of

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stacked up against the tree, leaning on the trees of

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something had clearly placed these branches there, and they were

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essentially pointing in the same direction as the tree stump

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or not the tree stumped the tree that was elevated,

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and these branches you look at them, they didn't come

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from the tree. They were completely different types of trees.

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One of them was even you know, solid red, it

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was like from a mandanita bush or on things. So

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whatever had placed them there had brought them there and

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kind of stood them up against the tree. And I

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don't know if you've seen Expedition Bigfoot, but this season

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they were in northern California, my guess is probably within

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fifty miles where we were, and they had a similar finding.

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There's was probably more dramatic, at least on their videos

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that they've shown on Expedition big but they had you know,

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fifteen or twenty foot sticks kind of leaning up against

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a tree. So it was just, you know, just that

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show was sort of confirmation of what we found. Was

240
00:13:40,799 --> 00:13:44,159
just unusual to be off the trail in the wilderness

241
00:13:44,639 --> 00:13:48,120
in a place where no one seemed to be. Obviously

242
00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:50,480
we had been there so other people could have gotten there.

243
00:13:51,039 --> 00:13:55,679
But that wasn't even the strangest sort of tree finding

244
00:13:55,679 --> 00:13:58,080
that we found. We kind of are now on this

245
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:03,279
side of the trail looking for things. Our interest is peaked.

246
00:14:03,320 --> 00:14:08,039
We found an elevated tree, We found other branches all

247
00:14:08,159 --> 00:14:12,159
pointing in the same direction, and we eventually found what

248
00:14:12,279 --> 00:14:14,879
I described as an igloo, and I don't know how

249
00:14:14,919 --> 00:14:18,399
to describe it any differently. It was a domed dwelling,

250
00:14:19,759 --> 00:14:23,039
probably about the size of a two or three person

251
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:28,320
backpacking tent, about three feet in height, maybe six feet

252
00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:32,519
across or eight feet across, and maybe eight feet long,

253
00:14:32,639 --> 00:14:35,000
and there was you know, opening at one end, and

254
00:14:35,639 --> 00:14:40,559
so there was Yeah, the branches were all weak together,

255
00:14:40,679 --> 00:14:43,840
so this was not you know, just branches being laid out.

256
00:14:43,960 --> 00:14:47,879
They were weaved together to make a sturdy, domed structure.

257
00:14:48,919 --> 00:14:51,440
And then so we figured, well, could this be human?

258
00:14:51,480 --> 00:14:55,720
I mean, probably most likely it was. We started looking

259
00:14:55,759 --> 00:15:01,120
for other signs of humans being there. Thing I noticed

260
00:15:01,159 --> 00:15:02,720
I don't even know if I said it to David

261
00:15:02,759 --> 00:15:06,879
at the time, but inside the structure, you know, most

262
00:15:06,879 --> 00:15:09,120
people when they put down a tent will kind of

263
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,799
move all the sticks out and rocks and put their

264
00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:15,440
tent down. Nothing had been cleaned out, but it was

265
00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:18,399
all compressed down. So whatever slept there slept right on

266
00:15:18,799 --> 00:15:23,399
whatever was inside the dome. And then the next next

267
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,879
thing we look for a fire pit. You know, you're

268
00:15:26,919 --> 00:15:30,159
out in the middle of nowhere, and even in the summer,

269
00:15:30,320 --> 00:15:33,519
it was probably in the mid forties at night, and

270
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,679
most people are going to have a fire, if not

271
00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:39,279
for warmth, just for you know, something to look at

272
00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:41,480
in the middle of the night. There was no fire pit.

273
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:44,519
And then we started looking for a while, maybe there's

274
00:15:44,679 --> 00:15:47,879
trash or something, because you know, humans seven, if you're

275
00:15:47,919 --> 00:15:51,159
trying to be clean, you're going to leave some scraps

276
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:59,720
of paper or wrappers or something. And there was nothing. Yeah, yeah, literally,

277
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:01,840
So then we started looking around it. Like David said,

278
00:16:01,879 --> 00:16:06,600
we found five or six piles of scat that were

279
00:16:06,679 --> 00:16:11,639
just huge and it looked like human scat, but bigger

280
00:16:11,639 --> 00:16:15,320
than anything I've ever done in my life. And we

281
00:16:15,399 --> 00:16:18,279
started thinking, well, what what could do this? Like I said,

282
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:22,320
we kind of beforehand on our drive up, we wanted

283
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:22,799
to look at.

284
00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,039
Speaker 4: Everything from a scientific side.

285
00:16:26,320 --> 00:16:28,960
Speaker 3: Our viewpoint, and if we could rule it out as

286
00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,440
being you know, some other cause, we would, but you know,

287
00:16:33,879 --> 00:16:37,600
It didn't look like bear scout. It didn't look like

288
00:16:38,159 --> 00:16:42,080
deer or else scat. There's nothing else that big that

289
00:16:42,159 --> 00:16:45,559
we know of in the area. It looked like human scat,

290
00:16:45,679 --> 00:16:49,200
but probably three times the amount. And then the other

291
00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:52,639
crazy thing is, you know, in our camp, we went

292
00:16:53,639 --> 00:16:57,159
maybe one hundred and fifty feet away through our business

293
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,840
and we buried it so we wouldn't step on it

294
00:17:00,919 --> 00:17:03,240
the next day or smell it or anything like that.

295
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,160
These were all sitting on top of the ground. There

296
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:10,599
was no toilet paper, There was no evidence of any

297
00:17:11,440 --> 00:17:15,359
like moss or leaves that anything had used to clean themselves.

298
00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,240
Whatever had done it had just squatted five or six

299
00:17:18,279 --> 00:17:21,440
times around its dwelling and did.

300
00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,079
Speaker 1: Its business well.

301
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,240
Speaker 3: Really strange. No sign of other, you know, humans had

302
00:17:27,279 --> 00:17:30,759
been there. But we find this dwelling if you would,

303
00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,920
and scat all around.

304
00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,839
Speaker 2: Were there any signs of like tools being used to

305
00:17:38,880 --> 00:17:40,240
like cut the limbs or anything.

306
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,880
Speaker 3: No, they all looked broken, you know, we did look

307
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,839
at that. I didn't mention that none of them had

308
00:17:47,839 --> 00:17:50,839
been cut with an axe or a saw. They had

309
00:17:50,839 --> 00:17:54,440
all been snapped or fallen.

310
00:17:54,839 --> 00:17:55,039
Speaker 1: You know.

311
00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,519
Speaker 3: They maybe they were deadfall that had been dragged into

312
00:17:59,519 --> 00:18:02,319
the area. I don't know, but they had all been

313
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:07,680
broken some way and had no cut ends on them.

314
00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,519
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just so weird. You know, if it

315
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:14,119
was a human, that's a pretty long term structure for

316
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:17,160
a primitive shelter for someone to make. You would think

317
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:21,279
there would definitely be signs of a fire and you know,

318
00:18:21,319 --> 00:18:25,119
the limbs being cut to create the shelter. That that

319
00:18:25,279 --> 00:18:27,559
just seems so weird that anybody would go back there

320
00:18:27,559 --> 00:18:29,640
and do it by hand and not build a fire

321
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:34,000
and not clear it out, and then to just defecate

322
00:18:34,039 --> 00:18:36,519
all around it. I mean, that doesn't sound human at

323
00:18:36,519 --> 00:18:36,920
all to me.

324
00:18:38,319 --> 00:18:41,480
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, that's exactly what we thought. So, you know,

325
00:18:41,799 --> 00:18:45,839
we we thought with those findings we kind of hit

326
00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:48,000
the jackpot and that would be as good as anything

327
00:18:48,039 --> 00:18:52,480
we found the rest of the week. But I was wrong.

328
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:59,960
Speaker 1: Wrong. Yeah. So the next thing that I think we found,

329
00:19:00,039 --> 00:19:02,480
we'd gone back if you know, after that trail, if

330
00:19:03,039 --> 00:19:05,400
you know, if you at about two miles and stuff,

331
00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:06,920
but in the same area we had found a lot

332
00:19:06,960 --> 00:19:08,200
of the trees and stuff like that.

333
00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:09,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

334
00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,559
Speaker 1: I'm always looking for track traps and trying to find,

335
00:19:13,759 --> 00:19:16,319
you know, places they can see traps and things like that,

336
00:19:16,599 --> 00:19:20,119
and I hadn't noticed it on a day or two before.

337
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:23,160
But about thirty yards off the trail, we're walking and

338
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,279
I see this kind of wet area, and I say, hey, Kurt,

339
00:19:26,480 --> 00:19:28,640
there's a track trap. Let's just go over there and

340
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,680
look and see what we can see. And you know,

341
00:19:31,759 --> 00:19:34,440
like we think we're going to expect to see like

342
00:19:34,519 --> 00:19:38,279
deer tracks or you know whatever. Even if there's barren

343
00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:40,480
area thing like that, you could do that. But so

344
00:19:40,519 --> 00:19:42,359
we were walking off there and it's thirty yards off

345
00:19:42,400 --> 00:19:45,279
the trail behind brush and stuff. I could just see

346
00:19:45,359 --> 00:19:48,319
through the brush and see, you know, wettiness over there.

347
00:19:48,440 --> 00:19:50,720
I just want to go look at it. So we

348
00:19:50,799 --> 00:19:55,400
go walking over there and there's this probably a marsh.

349
00:19:56,079 --> 00:19:56,240
Speaker 3: You know.

350
00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,640
Speaker 1: The marsh is about I don't know, curius, what do

351
00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:02,640
you say, fifteen to twenty feet cross, and you know,

352
00:20:02,759 --> 00:20:05,880
maybe a double of length, you know, winde But there's

353
00:20:05,960 --> 00:20:08,799
nothing was water in it, mud and things like that,

354
00:20:08,839 --> 00:20:10,720
but it was nothing I would want to walk through.

355
00:20:11,759 --> 00:20:14,920
Speaker 3: And it was probably about, you know, the size of

356
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,240
a homeless swimming pool in the area. At least, you know,

357
00:20:19,279 --> 00:20:21,880
it wasn't wasn't huge, It wasn't a big lake. It

358
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:25,000
was just a little marshy area and probably at its

359
00:20:25,079 --> 00:20:29,400
depth it was four inches deep, maybe six inches at

360
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:29,920
that mouth.

361
00:20:30,559 --> 00:20:32,160
Speaker 1: But you didn't have to walk through it to go

362
00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:35,160
past it. You we walked around it, you know, just

363
00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,279
to go ten feet dis direction and you walk around

364
00:20:37,279 --> 00:20:39,519
it on dry land and you go around the other side.

365
00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:43,359
So it's like, if you're a human, you why would

366
00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,519
you walk through there and get your bots all dirty?

367
00:20:45,559 --> 00:20:47,279
But so we go there and all a sudden go hey,

368
00:20:47,279 --> 00:20:51,880
courtainly do that and there's there was three three footprints

369
00:20:52,079 --> 00:20:55,680
walking right through the middle of the marsh, and I go, wow,

370
00:20:56,079 --> 00:20:58,960
this is this is crazy. So we go over there

371
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:01,400
and we got the pictures comparing our foot size to

372
00:21:01,440 --> 00:21:04,400
the thing, and Curtis and we both were thirteen's and

373
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:08,000
you know the picture, you know, it's about twice as

374
00:21:08,039 --> 00:21:10,400
wide as in this foot and about three or four

375
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,319
inches longer than a shoe, so it figures probably measuring

376
00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:17,880
about you know, I think, you know, thirteen shoes about

377
00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,559
thirteen inches thirteen, you know, so carib measure about fifteen

378
00:21:21,559 --> 00:21:25,240
inches long and about twice as wide it is shoe.

379
00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,759
And there was like three steps. You could see it

380
00:21:28,759 --> 00:21:30,880
in the water. You could just see the imprint in

381
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,160
the water, and the first one, the second one was

382
00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,079
about a foot or two past it, like the left

383
00:21:37,079 --> 00:21:39,720
foot first and then the right foot. But then the

384
00:21:39,759 --> 00:21:44,759
third step was like over four feet. The next step

385
00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:50,079
was four feet further out, and then there was about

386
00:21:50,279 --> 00:21:53,079
another four feet to get out of the swamp from

387
00:21:53,079 --> 00:21:58,119
that side, and there was no step on there. So

388
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,519
we figured that the guy whatever made it, you know,

389
00:22:02,599 --> 00:22:04,839
made the first step, second step, the third step and

390
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:10,279
four step out you know, onto the dry area. And

391
00:22:10,799 --> 00:22:14,599
so it was about yeah, four to five feet you

392
00:22:14,640 --> 00:22:20,119
know step length you know, on there with it. And

393
00:22:20,599 --> 00:22:23,160
again so we're saying, hey, this is this is by people.

394
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:25,720
This is not like, I mean, for a bear to

395
00:22:27,319 --> 00:22:29,440
step on itself and make it, you know, like a

396
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:32,119
look like a footprint, things like that. You have to

397
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,920
do it three times in a row and do that.

398
00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:38,359
And we say, well, what is this? How do you

399
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:41,240
make that? And see, well, people could run and jump

400
00:22:41,319 --> 00:22:43,480
and make that type of step length or strike you know,

401
00:22:43,559 --> 00:22:46,720
stride length. You can do that. But if you're running

402
00:22:46,759 --> 00:22:51,440
and you jump and step in mud, you're gonna slide. Yeah, yeah,

403
00:22:52,079 --> 00:22:54,440
you know, there there was no sliding. There was no

404
00:22:55,039 --> 00:22:57,440
nothing of that, you know, around these things. It was

405
00:22:57,519 --> 00:23:02,319
just a walking step into the wet, you know, with

406
00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:05,839
a stride so something by Peter walked across that with

407
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:09,720
a sixteen inch foot with a probably six inches wide

408
00:23:10,039 --> 00:23:14,039
and a stride a step length of about you know,

409
00:23:14,079 --> 00:23:18,359
forty eight to fifty inches long, and so were the

410
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:21,039
crazy thing about that was that so we were like, wow,

411
00:23:21,079 --> 00:23:22,960
this is amazing. So we were getting kind of excited

412
00:23:22,960 --> 00:23:25,200
about that, and we go back when we came back

413
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,519
the next day to look at it and inspect it

414
00:23:28,559 --> 00:23:31,680
some more. And the interesting thing was that the middle

415
00:23:31,759 --> 00:23:36,880
that the third step had disappeared. It had been reabsorbed

416
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,359
you know, by the marsh, and we took a picture

417
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:42,160
and we took a picture of that. So that was

418
00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,599
kind of like, okay, this is going to disappear in

419
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:48,359
twenty four hours. Yeah, then that has to be recent.

420
00:23:48,599 --> 00:23:51,680
That has to be you know, within twenty four hours

421
00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:53,680
that that was made.

422
00:23:54,039 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 2: You know, for us, I saw a photo I believe,

423
00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:03,680
of that trackway that you're talking about, and it's definitely bipedal.

424
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,880
I mean, anything with four legs leaves a very definite trail,

425
00:24:09,200 --> 00:24:14,400
especially through a spot like that, and the telltale signs

426
00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:16,839
of a four legged animal going through. There were just

427
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:19,200
not there, not there at all.

428
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:23,559
Speaker 3: And it looked like right left, right left, you know

429
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:27,799
exactly what you're saying, by pedal. It it did look

430
00:24:27,839 --> 00:24:32,200
by pedal. So, you know, we see that, go back

431
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,599
to camp, decide that's where we're gonna kind of concentrate

432
00:24:35,599 --> 00:24:38,240
our efforts. We had a couple of days left. Next

433
00:24:38,279 --> 00:24:41,480
day we decided to go out there kind of close

434
00:24:41,519 --> 00:24:44,920
to the Marshy area and just kind of sit and

435
00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:49,160
listen to, you know, what was happening around. And David

436
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:55,359
had these sound amplification headphones and he was probably seventy

437
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:58,480
five yards away from me, up against a log, just

438
00:24:58,519 --> 00:25:01,960
sitting there. And I was sort of off the trail

439
00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:03,920
it sort of sitting.

440
00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:06,920
Speaker 4: Under a bush, and I could see him, he could

441
00:25:06,960 --> 00:25:07,319
see me.

442
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:09,519
Speaker 3: We could probably see, I don't know, two hundred and

443
00:25:09,559 --> 00:25:13,519
forty degrees each of us around. And we sat there

444
00:25:13,519 --> 00:25:18,240
for about an hour. And with these headphones, we could

445
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,960
literally I could whisper and he could hear me and

446
00:25:21,079 --> 00:25:23,319
buy some versus so we could converse without making too

447
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:26,200
much noise, and we could hear things off in the

448
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:28,960
distance kind of moving around. But we had no idea

449
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:31,519
We couldn't tell us bipedal by what we could hear,

450
00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,119
but things were definitely moving around us. And finally, after

451
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:39,400
about an hour, I noticed that they're you know, close

452
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:43,279
to him. There was this what looked like a broken

453
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:48,240
tree just across from the marsh, and I had never

454
00:25:48,319 --> 00:25:50,559
noticed it before, but just sitting there for an hour,

455
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:54,880
I finally was staring at this thing. And it was

456
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,759
under the canopy of a redwood tree, and you know,

457
00:25:58,799 --> 00:26:00,960
the canopy of a redwood tree. He's probably you know,

458
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:05,000
fifty feet at least across, and not much grows underneath.

459
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:08,079
It cannot be of a redwood tree because of the

460
00:26:08,279 --> 00:26:10,799
you know, there's no light number one, number two, all

461
00:26:10,839 --> 00:26:14,799
the pine needles. Kind of never tried to grow grass

462
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,400
underneath a pine tree. It just just doesn't happen, you know.

463
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,799
So it caught my caught my attention being in a

464
00:26:21,839 --> 00:26:24,960
weird spot. Maybe it was a tree that had just

465
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:29,160
been broken off by something. But when we decided we

466
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:31,440
were done listening, I kind of walked up to this

467
00:26:31,519 --> 00:26:34,599
thing and David's looking at me, like, what are you doing?

468
00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:38,559
And I just started looking at it. And it didn't

469
00:26:38,599 --> 00:26:41,640
widen out at the base like a tree kind of wood,

470
00:26:42,519 --> 00:26:45,039
and I started moving it and there was a little

471
00:26:45,079 --> 00:26:49,039
micro emotion, and pretty soon I had the thing loose

472
00:26:49,079 --> 00:26:52,400
and I pulled it out and it was not a stump.

473
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:58,079
It was clearly broken both ends and had been jammed

474
00:26:58,119 --> 00:27:01,039
in the ground about six in and it was sticking

475
00:27:01,160 --> 00:27:05,559
up about three foot out of the ground. So you know,

476
00:27:05,799 --> 00:27:09,559
something had taken this three and a half foot long

477
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,759
stick and jammed in the ground. And it was literally

478
00:27:14,319 --> 00:27:17,240
right across from the marsh. And you know, part of

479
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:21,720
what caught my attention not only you know, what would

480
00:27:21,720 --> 00:27:24,519
something grow under the canopy of a redwood tree, but

481
00:27:24,680 --> 00:27:29,200
I had seen on YouTube other people describing sticks being

482
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,799
stuck in the ground, or trees even being upturned and

483
00:27:33,079 --> 00:27:37,480
upside down and jammed into the ground, and you know,

484
00:27:37,839 --> 00:27:42,319
obviously maybe something could have done it when it was muddy,

485
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:45,240
but I took that thing out. David has a video

486
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,480
of me trying to jam that thing in the ground

487
00:27:47,519 --> 00:27:49,799
with the sharp end, and I didn't make it damp,

488
00:27:50,519 --> 00:27:53,680
So if it didn't happen when it was muddy, something

489
00:27:54,799 --> 00:27:56,799
it took a lot of force to jam that thing

490
00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:00,920
six inches into the ground. So it was literally right

491
00:28:00,960 --> 00:28:05,519
across from the marsh where whatever had you done those

492
00:28:05,559 --> 00:28:10,039
three steps in the marsh and crossed came out onto

493
00:28:10,079 --> 00:28:14,359
the trail. But you know, I know we're kind of

494
00:28:15,759 --> 00:28:17,799
making an assumption here, but it was as if it

495
00:28:17,839 --> 00:28:19,799
was a marker as to where it to cross the

496
00:28:19,839 --> 00:28:20,480
main trail.

497
00:28:21,039 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 2: Could you tell what kind of tree it was?

498
00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:24,680
Speaker 1: It?

499
00:28:25,359 --> 00:28:27,599
Speaker 3: So yeah, we looked, Well, no, we could not tell,

500
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,920
but we did look around. You know, it clearly was

501
00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:31,799
not a redwood. It was not a branch that had

502
00:28:31,799 --> 00:28:33,839
fallen out of the redwood tree. Yet it was under

503
00:28:33,839 --> 00:28:36,920
the canopy of a redwood tree. So then we're looking

504
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:39,400
around to see if any of the trees around it

505
00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,279
had a branch that size that had broken, or if

506
00:28:42,319 --> 00:28:46,079
there was a stump around or anything like that. Just

507
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,759
like David said, we looked for that stump of that

508
00:28:48,839 --> 00:28:53,559
elevated tree. We could not find the source of that tree.

509
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,119
So this, you know, I guess you'd call it a

510
00:28:56,119 --> 00:28:58,759
log more than anything. It was probably four inches in

511
00:28:58,839 --> 00:29:02,119
diameter and about three and a half feet you know long.

512
00:29:02,839 --> 00:29:06,000
My guess is it probably weighed about thirty pounds, not

513
00:29:06,319 --> 00:29:09,960
heavy by any means, but we could not find a

514
00:29:10,039 --> 00:29:12,720
place where it had come from. So whatever I had

515
00:29:12,759 --> 00:29:15,759
put it in the ground, you know, from what we

516
00:29:15,839 --> 00:29:19,319
could see, had brought it from somewhere deeper in the forest.

517
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,079
Speaker 2: I mean that, you know, as far as I'm aware of,

518
00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:29,759
that takes hands. So you're limited down to either humans

519
00:29:29,839 --> 00:29:32,920
or bigfoot at that point. And I don't see a

520
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:34,880
human just carrying around a log like that.

521
00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:37,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was crazy.

522
00:29:40,079 --> 00:29:46,599
Speaker 3: Yeah, we our last story of California. It was the

523
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,720
last morning. As David said, we had set up our

524
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,119
base camp about five or six miles in from the trailhead,

525
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:56,880
and we took all our day trips out of there,

526
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:01,240
come back at night. Well, last morning we were planning

527
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:06,359
on leaving. We both woke up about six am, got

528
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,960
out of our tents. About five minutes later. I decided

529
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:13,680
to put on some water to get our coffee going.

530
00:30:14,519 --> 00:30:17,319
And we had sort of set up our backpacking stove

531
00:30:18,039 --> 00:30:21,400
underneath the canopy of another redwood that was in our

532
00:30:21,480 --> 00:30:25,359
base camp. It was probably thirty feet or so from

533
00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:29,759
our tent, and so I started pouring water into a pot,

534
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:32,920
and all of a sudden, the pine cone lasts or

535
00:30:33,240 --> 00:30:37,039
lands right near my left foot. Okay, no big deal,

536
00:30:37,119 --> 00:30:40,519
I'm under the canopy of a redwood tree. A redwood

537
00:30:40,519 --> 00:30:43,200
tree has pine cones. There are hundreds of pine cones

538
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,680
on the ground all around us. Well, about three seconds later,

539
00:30:46,759 --> 00:30:49,640
before I even light the fire, another one lands by

540
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,880
my right foot. Well, again, didn't take much of it.

541
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:57,440
And David's standing under the canopy maybe eight feet from me,

542
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,640
and he's seen all this happen, but you know, still

543
00:31:00,759 --> 00:31:03,559
could be natural. Two pine cones fall, but we looked

544
00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:06,039
up and you know, there's not a breath of wind

545
00:31:06,079 --> 00:31:09,640
in the air whatsoever. So I go to sit down

546
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,319
in my little backpacking camp chair about eight feet away,

547
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,599
and the same thing happens. Now I'm sitting down and

548
00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:21,240
it's like a perfect myss. One pine cone lands by

549
00:31:21,279 --> 00:31:24,839
my right foot and one pine cone lands by my

550
00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:29,160
left foot, and you know, I'm looking up into the tree,

551
00:31:29,240 --> 00:31:33,319
and David decides to back up into the opening, and

552
00:31:34,039 --> 00:31:36,039
he can kind of tell you what he was looking for.

553
00:31:37,359 --> 00:31:39,759
Speaker 1: Well, you know, when I first the first one didn't there,

554
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,079
didn't even think anything of it. When the last two

555
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:45,160
almost hit him. When he's sitting in a chair, I'm like,

556
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,359
what the heck is going And I start looking up

557
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,000
at the tree and I couldn't see much, so I

558
00:31:49,039 --> 00:31:51,960
started back I backed off about been twenty feet to

559
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,799
get out from underneath the canopy. And I'm sitting here

560
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,599
looking up in the tree and trying to see it.

561
00:31:57,640 --> 00:32:01,079
I'm under open sky and trying to look up as

562
00:32:01,119 --> 00:32:02,640
far as I could to see it. I don't see

563
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,960
any squirrel I had seen. I seen a squirrel like

564
00:32:05,000 --> 00:32:07,839
fifty feet away in the opposite direction in a tree,

565
00:32:08,279 --> 00:32:10,240
but not up in that tree. And all of a sudden,

566
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:14,440
a pine cone lands by my foot, and then then

567
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:18,799
another pine cone lands on my foot, and I'm in

568
00:32:18,839 --> 00:32:20,839
the open there's nothing on it, there's nothing above me,

569
00:32:21,240 --> 00:32:23,920
and I what the heck? And as soon as that happened,

570
00:32:23,960 --> 00:32:26,240
I think both of us it was just I can

571
00:32:26,319 --> 00:32:29,680
still see us, both of us realizing that this is

572
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:34,000
not natural. And we both stood up and turned to

573
00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:37,400
our you know, my left is right looking up the

574
00:32:37,519 --> 00:32:40,720
ridge above our camp. At the same time, we just

575
00:32:40,799 --> 00:32:45,519
both turned up, and immediately it stopped, and I was

576
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:48,160
I started looking at these things and realized that two

577
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,319
or three of these pine cones are actually green, And

578
00:32:51,440 --> 00:32:53,039
you know, we took a picture of one to sow

579
00:32:53,079 --> 00:32:54,559
that it was green, and it was like, how the

580
00:32:54,599 --> 00:32:57,440
heck are green pine cones? Falling out of a tree

581
00:32:57,519 --> 00:33:00,759
unless you got some sniper squirrel, you know, that's throwing

582
00:33:00,799 --> 00:33:03,880
pine cones at us, you know, you know from there.

583
00:33:03,920 --> 00:33:07,839
But yeah, that was about you know, seven or eight

584
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:09,799
pine cones. That seemed the only thing you could say

585
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:11,880
was thrown at us, you know, at six in the

586
00:33:11,880 --> 00:33:16,160
morning and you're like like six miles into somewhere. Someone

587
00:33:16,160 --> 00:33:18,839
would have if someone's you know, punking us or something.

588
00:33:19,039 --> 00:33:21,359
You know, we had trail camps up on the trail.

589
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:24,079
We didn't see anybody coming in. They would have to

590
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:25,960
hike in at six in the morning, probably leave at

591
00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:28,160
two in the morning just to go do that, you know,

592
00:33:28,279 --> 00:33:32,480
hike in, throw pine cones and leave. Because we packed

593
00:33:32,559 --> 00:33:34,599
up after you know that, and started heading out in

594
00:33:34,599 --> 00:33:36,880
the morning, and we didn't run into anyone for about

595
00:33:36,920 --> 00:33:38,799
three or four miles until we were almost out.

596
00:33:39,839 --> 00:33:42,759
Speaker 3: You know, when those people, those people that we ran

597
00:33:42,839 --> 00:33:47,319
into had not been camping. They both had a water

598
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,640
bottle and a granola bar. They had just come into

599
00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:55,359
the to the trail had about eight in the morning.

600
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,720
They said they were just scouting for a camping site

601
00:33:57,799 --> 00:34:01,759
for the next weekend, so they didn't you know, they

602
00:34:01,759 --> 00:34:06,039
had not camped there overnight. There's no way that these guys,

603
00:34:06,079 --> 00:34:08,719
like I said, unless they had been there two in

604
00:34:08,760 --> 00:34:10,920
the morning at the trail ahead, walked in and then

605
00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:15,840
walked back out and then walked out towards the wilderness

606
00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,000
again to see us. Could they have pumped us and

607
00:34:19,039 --> 00:34:21,639
I you know, they just didn't have the equipment there.

608
00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:25,320
It was a married couple. I just can't see a

609
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:27,960
married couple getting there at two in the morning and

610
00:34:28,559 --> 00:34:33,320
just just happening to find somebody camping and decide to

611
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,199
throw pine cones at them when they get up at

612
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:36,719
six in the morning.

613
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody's doing that. I mean, in an area like that,

614
00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,000
most of the people there, the vast majority of people

615
00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:47,599
there are going to kind of be under the same

616
00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,119
mindset and they're not going to be messing with people.

617
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,719
They're not, you know, they're trying to avoid people. That's

618
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:57,920
why they go there. Uh, the idea to like start

619
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:01,719
throwing pine cones at somebody from the bush, says, I don't.

620
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:03,199
I don't think anybody would do that.

621
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,639
Speaker 1: We hadn't heard of that before. And what was interesting

622
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:11,760
was afterward, you know, we started seeing some comments or

623
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:13,519
maybe you just don't even think about It's like when

624
00:35:13,559 --> 00:35:15,800
you buy a car, you start seeing that car all

625
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,840
over the place. But you know, we had we started

626
00:35:18,840 --> 00:35:21,679
hearing people mention that they had had pine cones, you know,

627
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:27,800
throwing that, and that's what happened that anyway, that was that.

628
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 3: Was our California experience over about fighting and here we are,

629
00:35:33,559 --> 00:35:39,039
we're rookies. We're going into this not trying, not believing

630
00:35:39,079 --> 00:35:42,480
we'll find anything. And we had talked going up. I

631
00:35:43,599 --> 00:35:47,199
was more of a skeptic than David. Obviously he had

632
00:35:47,199 --> 00:35:51,320
a more you know, seated, deep seated foundation on Bigfoot

633
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:55,159
than I did. I My Bigfoot was learned through finding Bigfoot,

634
00:35:55,159 --> 00:35:57,920
and I was quite skeptical. But you know, after all

635
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:00,920
that happened in our Californi on a trip, I was

636
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:06,679
now at least open to believing that it was possible,

637
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:10,079
if not probable, that there was a big Foot out there.

638
00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,000
Speaker 2: I mean, those are some amazing experiences, especially for our

639
00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,679
first time out. I mean, those would have been amazing

640
00:36:17,719 --> 00:36:21,360
experiences for your one hundredth time in the field, you know,

641
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:22,920
for a veteran bigfooter.

642
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:28,159
Speaker 3: Well, like we said, we were not expecting anything. You know,

643
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:30,239
we kind of went into the thing. Yeah, we're going

644
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:34,239
to go find Bigfoot, but but we pretty much decided

645
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:36,960
we were just going to be two guys out camping

646
00:36:37,039 --> 00:36:39,800
and backpacking and having a good time, and if we

647
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:42,000
found something, it was, you know, icing on the cake.

648
00:36:44,639 --> 00:36:47,159
Speaker 2: Did you guys get anything on your trail cams while

649
00:36:47,159 --> 00:36:47,639
you were there?

650
00:36:49,719 --> 00:36:52,039
Speaker 1: The only thing we got was us. And the guy

651
00:36:52,159 --> 00:36:54,440
was the guy that we ran into him one day

652
00:36:54,440 --> 00:36:56,639
that we were He was coming in and just coming

653
00:36:56,679 --> 00:37:00,000
in overnight, and and then he walked out the same

654
00:37:00,159 --> 00:37:01,760
we saw him going in, we saw him going out.

655
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,000
We talked to him both times, so we knew when

656
00:37:04,039 --> 00:37:05,800
he was there, we knew when he when he left.

657
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:07,679
And that was the only thing we got on the

658
00:37:07,679 --> 00:37:08,360
trail cams.

659
00:37:08,519 --> 00:37:10,719
Speaker 2: Any signs of wildlife or anything.

660
00:37:12,440 --> 00:37:17,440
Speaker 3: No nothing on the trail, no other no animals on

661
00:37:17,480 --> 00:37:20,840
the trail cam. So, you know, that was kind of disappointing,

662
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:24,119
But then you know, we've obviously seen things where people

663
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,920
have said, you know, possibly obviously nobody knows. Maybe Bigfoot

664
00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:31,840
can see that, you know, if they are out there,

665
00:37:31,880 --> 00:37:34,320
maybe they can see the infrared on the on the

666
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:39,639
game cam and they avoid them. But no, no wildlife

667
00:37:39,639 --> 00:37:42,599
whatsoever we saw the whole time we were out there,

668
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,440
and and we never you know, in fairness to our critics,

669
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,159
we never saw bigfoot. We never got a picture of

670
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:54,280
a bigfoot. But we had some crazy experiences that as

671
00:37:55,559 --> 00:38:01,400
guys who tried to explain things. You know, we're both scientists,

672
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:07,559
we're both physicians. We can't explain them other than potentially

673
00:38:07,599 --> 00:38:09,719
if it was a bigfoot. And you know, we get

674
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,239
a lot of joshing from our friends and family that

675
00:38:12,519 --> 00:38:15,559
you know, we've come to this conclusion even though we've

676
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:20,079
never seen a bigfoot or got a picture of a bigfoot.

677
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, but whenever it comes to this stuff, I call

678
00:38:24,079 --> 00:38:26,199
it the fifty to fifty rule, which is pretty much

679
00:38:26,239 --> 00:38:28,840
as good as you're going to get without having an

680
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:32,960
actual physical sighting of a bigfoot. And that's whenever you

681
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,679
get to the point where you're like with the log

682
00:38:35,760 --> 00:38:38,360
for instance, where it's okay, well this was either a

683
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:42,079
person or it was a bigfoot, and then you just

684
00:38:42,159 --> 00:38:45,039
kind of have to go over the idea of like, okay, well,

685
00:38:45,079 --> 00:38:47,800
how probable is it that it was a human? And

686
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:51,760
in everything you're describing there doesn't seem to be any

687
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,800
signs of it being human as the cause.

688
00:38:56,840 --> 00:39:00,800
Speaker 3: And that was basically our thinking as well, well, all

689
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:04,960
the things that that we found kind of off that

690
00:39:05,119 --> 00:39:09,880
trail across the creek. You know, how do you explain

691
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:12,880
an igloo made out of sticks that are weaved with

692
00:39:13,039 --> 00:39:16,559
no other sign of humans around. How do you explain that,

693
00:39:16,639 --> 00:39:19,199
you know, three steps across a twenty foot marsh with

694
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:25,079
sixteen inch foot feet, How do you explain that log

695
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,840
jammed into the ground exactly where that thing would have

696
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:32,840
crossed the trail at it, you know, off that marsh.

697
00:39:33,519 --> 00:39:38,719
You know, there there aren't many explanations of that being

698
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:39,719
human behavior.

699
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:44,480
Speaker 1: All those things who's throwing p Yeah?

700
00:39:44,639 --> 00:39:47,039
Speaker 2: Yeah, pinecones falling out of the tree is a pretty

701
00:39:47,119 --> 00:39:52,360
random occurrence, and just the sheer number and that amount

702
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,920
of time, and the fact that they all landed by you, guys,

703
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:58,679
and nowhere else that I mean, Yeah, something was throwing

704
00:39:58,719 --> 00:40:00,559
pine cones at you.

705
00:40:00,599 --> 00:40:01,760
Speaker 4: And with no wind.

706
00:40:02,239 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean if you could expect it, if there

707
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:05,920
was a thirty mile an hour wind and I was

708
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:09,639
sitting under under a redwood, that, yeah, five or six

709
00:40:09,679 --> 00:40:12,679
pine cones might fall in a two minute period. But

710
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:16,320
then even with that, if there was wind and there wasn't,

711
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:21,119
I'd explained two or three landing all around David out

712
00:40:21,119 --> 00:40:23,480
in the open. You know, that would have taken a

713
00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:25,800
one hundred mile an hour wind to do that, and

714
00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:28,280
there was no wind, and you know the other things.

715
00:40:28,559 --> 00:40:31,920
As I think back on that experience, you know, they

716
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,599
were like perfect misses if you would. We were never hit,

717
00:40:37,679 --> 00:40:43,079
but we were also whatever was throwing them sort of

718
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,920
let us know that if it wanted to, it could

719
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,559
have hit us. With those pine cones, they were all

720
00:40:50,639 --> 00:40:51,840
within a foot of us.

721
00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't over like minutes, and this was within

722
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,360
thirty sixty seconds that this happened.

723
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:02,639
Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, that's even crazier to get completely unscientific

724
00:41:02,679 --> 00:41:05,920
about it. Did you guys ever have a sense of

725
00:41:06,039 --> 00:41:07,559
like being watched?

726
00:41:08,159 --> 00:41:11,119
Speaker 1: The only time I'd say is something is that when

727
00:41:11,360 --> 00:41:14,599
when we both turned to look up at that point

728
00:41:14,639 --> 00:41:16,920
when they started landing by me, I think we both

729
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,480
felt something was there throwing things at us. Whatever it was,

730
00:41:20,920 --> 00:41:23,000
We both turned at the same time. We both had

731
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,280
the same you know, I felt the sensation. We both

732
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:29,760
looked in the same direction, you know, at the same time.

733
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,960
We both you know, it was at that point I said,

734
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,400
something is doing this, you know, And that was the

735
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:38,079
only time that I would have felt.

736
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:43,280
Speaker 3: There was, you know, and I would say my turning

737
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,159
and looking up there, you know. You hear a lot

738
00:41:46,199 --> 00:41:49,159
of people say that they they kind of felt that

739
00:41:49,440 --> 00:41:51,559
they're being watched the whole way in on a trail

740
00:41:51,679 --> 00:41:54,280
or something like that. I didn't have that feeling. It's

741
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:57,480
just it was sort of a quick process of elimination.

742
00:41:57,639 --> 00:42:00,440
There was a creek behind us. Couldn't have come from

743
00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:04,800
across the creek because that was probably across the creek

744
00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,039
was maybe one hundred and fifty feet, so those would

745
00:42:07,039 --> 00:42:10,880
be some tremendous throws. So we were sort of surrounded

746
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,079
on two sides by a creek behind us. The trail

747
00:42:14,960 --> 00:42:18,280
kind of flattened out off to our left, and we

748
00:42:18,320 --> 00:42:20,800
could see down there. There was nothing there. It was

749
00:42:20,880 --> 00:42:24,679
just more of a office of elimination. I knew it

750
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,320
wasn't behind me on the creek, and I knew it

751
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:29,960
wasn't down by the trail, So to me, it was

752
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:33,440
just more process of elimination. I just sort of reasoned

753
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:35,920
that it had to be up there. I personally never

754
00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,519
had a sense that something was watching me. I just

755
00:42:39,519 --> 00:42:42,360
had a realization that these pine cones were coming up

756
00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:43,719
from the ridge behind our tent.

757
00:42:44,719 --> 00:42:47,320
Speaker 2: Did you save one of the pine cones?

758
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:51,800
Speaker 1: We didn't say that. I took a close up of

759
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:53,400
one of the green ones because I was like, no

760
00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:55,519
one's going to believe that there's green pine cones, and

761
00:42:55,559 --> 00:42:57,920
I said, yep, I'm taking the picture of this one.

762
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,920
Speaker 3: And clearly, you know, we we admit we're trying our

763
00:43:01,960 --> 00:43:04,360
rookies at all. This this is our first trip. We

764
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:07,159
had a lot of mistakes. We we didn't have a

765
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:11,199
take measure to measure the you know, footprints, We didn't

766
00:43:11,559 --> 00:43:14,960
bring back one of the pine cones. We didn't have

767
00:43:15,039 --> 00:43:18,559
any audio recorders out. We just had game trail or

768
00:43:18,599 --> 00:43:24,039
game cameras, and we had some night vision infrared flear

769
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:27,519
cameras that we never found anything on. But we were

770
00:43:27,559 --> 00:43:31,280
just kind of newbies out there again, not expecting to

771
00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,960
find anything. So yeah, we probably should have brought one

772
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,159
of those home and maybe seeing if there was DNA

773
00:43:37,239 --> 00:43:42,000
on it or whatever. But but we were, in a

774
00:43:42,039 --> 00:43:44,519
real sense, just rookies at doing this.

775
00:43:45,159 --> 00:43:48,679
Speaker 2: I just asked, because I've seen a few people with

776
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:51,840
a rock sitting up on their mantles before that they

777
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:52,639
brought home.

778
00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:57,000
Speaker 3: From Yeah, we should have brought back We should have

779
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,239
brought up trophy, but we didn't.

780
00:43:59,119 --> 00:44:01,679
Speaker 2: I had a really good friend that was on an

781
00:44:01,679 --> 00:44:06,679
outing in Alabama, I believe, and they weren't even doing

782
00:44:06,719 --> 00:44:08,840
anything at the time. They were sitting around camp, round

783
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:13,079
the campfire, and they thought that a rock had been

784
00:44:13,119 --> 00:44:16,639
thrown at them, and it kind of got their attention.

785
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:18,800
So they're paying attention, and she said, the next thing,

786
00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,599
you know, this rock comes whizzing by her head and

787
00:44:21,719 --> 00:44:25,079
hits the tree right behind her chair, and you know,

788
00:44:25,199 --> 00:44:27,719
it hit pretty hard and it just landed right there

789
00:44:27,719 --> 00:44:29,079
on the ground next to her, and she took it

790
00:44:29,119 --> 00:44:34,960
home with her. So I understand completely. I've also experienced

791
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:40,840
the whole rock throwing thing myself, and the whole perfect

792
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,519
miss concept is exactly what it seems like they do.

793
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:50,400
I can't believe that they can't hit you. I just

794
00:44:50,519 --> 00:44:53,719
choose that they choose not to hit you. But yeah,

795
00:44:53,960 --> 00:44:57,480
it's weird how they do that. Do you guys have

796
00:44:57,679 --> 00:45:00,679
any theories on the purpose us of that. Do you

797
00:45:00,679 --> 00:45:02,760
think they're just trying to get your attention or mess

798
00:45:02,840 --> 00:45:04,559
with you or see how you'll react. What do you

799
00:45:04,599 --> 00:45:09,000
think they're doing that for? If they are responsible for it, I.

800
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:15,639
Speaker 1: Think it'd be you know, an attention thing. Okay, this

801
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:19,280
is already you know, we've been walking around the area

802
00:45:19,280 --> 00:45:23,079
where they've been walking, you know, walking, you know, on

803
00:45:23,159 --> 00:45:25,000
their game trails and things like that.

804
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:30,000
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I kind of have the same

805
00:45:30,079 --> 00:45:32,599
thought as David. You know, none of that happened until

806
00:45:32,639 --> 00:45:38,159
we crossed the creek. Once we did that, you know,

807
00:45:38,559 --> 00:45:40,599
sort of the next day or the second time we

808
00:45:40,639 --> 00:45:43,840
went across the creek into their territory, found all these things.

809
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: You know.

810
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,960
Speaker 3: Obviously this is just me assuming, but I think they

811
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:53,039
were letting us know that they were around and this

812
00:45:53,159 --> 00:45:57,639
was their territory. Now, obviously I have no knowledge of

813
00:45:57,679 --> 00:46:00,239
what they might be thinking, but I think we were

814
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:02,199
just letting us know. And as it turns out, it

815
00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,400
just happened to be the morning we were planning on

816
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:06,239
leaving anyway.

817
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:08,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were going to leave anyway, guys.

818
00:46:08,960 --> 00:46:13,199
Speaker 1: So no, really, we.

819
00:46:13,159 --> 00:46:16,440
Speaker 3: Had planned I had to be back to work on Monday.

820
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,920
This was Friday. We had a two day drive out

821
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:20,960
and then I had a plane plane to leave, so

822
00:46:21,000 --> 00:46:23,280
we had kind of planned on leaving on the Friday.

823
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:26,800
No matter what. They just, you know, maybe if we

824
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,000
had planned on saying on Saturday, who tell Saturday. Who knows,

825
00:46:30,039 --> 00:46:32,679
Maybe we would have left on Friday anyway, but because

826
00:46:32,679 --> 00:46:35,199
of the pine pine cones, I don't know.

827
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, that next night could have gotten real interesting.

828
00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:42,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't lead because of the pinecones. Yeah.

829
00:46:44,199 --> 00:46:46,639
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask a question about the piles of

830
00:46:46,679 --> 00:46:51,599
scott that you found. Where were these in relation to

831
00:46:51,639 --> 00:46:53,679
the shelter all around?

832
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:56,159
Speaker 3: I mean I was in forty or fifty feet and

833
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:58,719
they were not in the same area. I mean it

834
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:05,519
was literally so to circumferential around the dwelling. So it

835
00:47:05,599 --> 00:47:08,440
was kind of as if whatever decided to have to

836
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:09,920
go to the bathroom in the middle of the night

837
00:47:10,519 --> 00:47:13,639
or whatever just decided. Well, I went, you know, to

838
00:47:13,679 --> 00:47:16,559
the right yesterday, now I'm going to the left today.

839
00:47:17,639 --> 00:47:21,199
There there was, like I said, six or eight piles

840
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:23,840
and they were just literally scattered all around.

841
00:47:24,559 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 1: You know.

842
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 3: Like I said, in our camp, we all went in

843
00:47:28,039 --> 00:47:31,639
one place, so we knew to avoid it, knew we

844
00:47:31,679 --> 00:47:33,519
didn't want to step in it, knew we didn't want

845
00:47:33,559 --> 00:47:36,519
to smell it. These were all around the camp.

846
00:47:37,519 --> 00:47:39,159
Speaker 2: David, I'm going to put you on the spot since

847
00:47:39,159 --> 00:47:43,639
you brought up Tom Brown Junior earlier, any idea on

848
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:45,599
how old the scout was.

849
00:47:46,239 --> 00:47:48,639
Speaker 1: I would, you know, and looking at it, it wasn't

850
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:54,639
like wet per se. I would probably think a week

851
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,719
or two weeks, you know, something that wasn't It wasn't

852
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,440
like not like I dried, you know, like falling apart dry.

853
00:48:03,159 --> 00:48:07,199
But you know, definitely in the medium time i'd see

854
00:48:07,239 --> 00:48:07,960
medium time dream.

855
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:12,119
Speaker 2: Just in terms of speculation, my mind is kind of

856
00:48:12,159 --> 00:48:16,280
going to an area of it was possibly used as

857
00:48:16,360 --> 00:48:19,880
like sort of a boundary marker around the shelter, kind

858
00:48:19,880 --> 00:48:22,480
of a you know, stay away, i'm here type thing.

859
00:48:23,199 --> 00:48:24,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe, I don't know.

860
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,119
Speaker 3: Could be they were all, you know, all probably in

861
00:48:29,199 --> 00:48:34,239
a fifteen to seventy five foot radius around around the dwelling,

862
00:48:34,519 --> 00:48:38,280
so could be. And like you said, they're they're not

863
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:40,840
in one spot, so they did go all around. So

864
00:48:41,559 --> 00:48:44,719
maybe maybe it wasn't random. Maybe it was sort of

865
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,840
a hey, this is my territory, don't come in.

866
00:48:48,320 --> 00:48:51,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so weird. I've just never I have never

867
00:48:51,639 --> 00:48:54,559
heard anybody find something like that before.

868
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:00,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had neither know our research and you know,

869
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:04,440
crazy crazy finding. We certainly were not expecting to find it.

870
00:49:04,480 --> 00:49:07,639
And we do have some pictures at least of the

871
00:49:08,719 --> 00:49:14,360
Igloo structure. I can't remember. I maybe David took some

872
00:49:14,400 --> 00:49:17,119
pictures of the scat. I don't don't really remember about

873
00:49:17,119 --> 00:49:17,639
that though.

874
00:49:18,639 --> 00:49:24,159
Speaker 2: So you guys weren't finished though, And I mean, as

875
00:49:24,280 --> 00:49:27,440
crazy as all that stuff is and as remarkable as

876
00:49:27,519 --> 00:49:31,800
it is, the next trip was pretty interesting as well.

877
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:36,360
Well did you guys just have bigfoot fever at that

878
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,719
point and had to get back out there? How long

879
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,679
was it before you were in Washington?

880
00:49:42,119 --> 00:49:45,519
Speaker 1: It was about two years later. We definitely were like, hey,

881
00:49:45,519 --> 00:49:47,519
we got to do this again. We were excited about

882
00:49:47,559 --> 00:49:51,639
we had what we had, so we I was in

883
00:49:51,880 --> 00:49:54,719
twenty twenty two and we did the California trip, and

884
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,920
then this year was when we decided to go again.

885
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:04,880
So probably January of this last year we started planning it.

886
00:50:05,079 --> 00:50:07,360
During decide, hey, when we want to go. You know,

887
00:50:07,480 --> 00:50:10,159
we had talked before about when to do it and

888
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:13,360
were pretty much the same week we were. We always

889
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,239
try to do it before hunting season starts. You know,

890
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:18,400
I just don't want to be out there, you know,

891
00:50:18,480 --> 00:50:22,159
during hunting season, your season and things like that. So

892
00:50:23,719 --> 00:50:25,400
we try to decide, Okay, where do we want to go?

893
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:26,920
Do you want to go the same place? Do we

894
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,639
want to do something different. We thought about going to

895
00:50:29,679 --> 00:50:33,840
Canada and and I was like, I wouldn't mind going

896
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:38,320
to Canada, you know, but it's there's difficult getting guns

897
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:42,360
and stuff up there, and you know, I feel like

898
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,639
I need to have my self protection and stuff with there.

899
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:48,119
So we said, okay, let's not do Canada. We looked

900
00:50:48,119 --> 00:50:52,079
at Alaska, a long ways to go, so we thought, hey,

901
00:50:52,079 --> 00:50:55,239
how about Oregon or Washington? You know, so that's kind

902
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:56,920
of we decided to go from there.

903
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:01,920
Speaker 3: Like David said, we started our research. We've you know,

904
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:07,079
David had done most research for the California trip and

905
00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:12,360
finding a spot. I semi retired in January, so I

906
00:51:12,400 --> 00:51:15,519
have work about halftime, and I have more time now.

907
00:51:16,119 --> 00:51:19,840
I started, you know, scrubbing YouTube and trying to find

908
00:51:19,840 --> 00:51:23,760
people who had been in Washington. And you know, obviously

909
00:51:24,360 --> 00:51:28,719
I realized pretty quickly that Washington had more sightings than

910
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:33,280
any other the lower forty eight states. I think at

911
00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:35,920
the time I started looking the BFROS that there were

912
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:40,320
six hundred and seventy six Class A and Class B sidings.

913
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:42,280
And those are just the ones that were reported to

914
00:51:43,599 --> 00:51:45,920
the bf R. You know, there's obviously many that go

915
00:51:46,159 --> 00:51:50,559
unreported so we figured Washington would be, you know, relatively

916
00:51:50,599 --> 00:51:55,280
easily accessible. Then we started looking at the population. We

917
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:58,360
wanted to try to get, you know, as far away

918
00:51:58,519 --> 00:52:02,880
from population as we could. And fifty products and eighty

919
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,000
percent of the population of Washington's on the west third

920
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,159
and a half of Wassington and only twenty percent on

921
00:52:09,159 --> 00:52:12,480
the eastern half, So we kind of concentrated on the

922
00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,599
eastern half of Washington. And then I started finding videos

923
00:52:16,639 --> 00:52:20,559
on YouTube. But one of them is from Grassman fifty eight.

924
00:52:20,679 --> 00:52:23,440
That's his title. I think his name's Will Palmer. I

925
00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:25,840
don't know if you know him, but he has a

926
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:31,239
number of videos. He describes a corridor sort of starting

927
00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:35,000
in northeastern Washington where we were, and I think he

928
00:52:35,079 --> 00:52:40,880
describes four zones going south through Washington. He describes him

929
00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:42,719
as A, B, C, and D, so I think we

930
00:52:42,840 --> 00:52:47,519
ended up in his A zone. And he has a

931
00:52:47,639 --> 00:52:50,519
number of videos and a lot of them are concentrated

932
00:52:50,559 --> 00:52:55,920
around Bullivan Lake, which is the northeastern corner of Washington,

933
00:52:57,519 --> 00:53:03,159
and he has some specifically along the Sullivan Creek which

934
00:53:03,320 --> 00:53:08,239
feeds into Sullivan Lake, and there's a campground that has

935
00:53:08,320 --> 00:53:12,039
eighteen spots and they're sort of spread out over about

936
00:53:12,159 --> 00:53:18,039
twelve miles or so along Sullivan Creek Road, and he

937
00:53:18,119 --> 00:53:22,320
has videos specifically having quite a bit of activity near

938
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:26,920
the end of those campgrounds, specifically in Ampsite seventeen. I

939
00:53:26,960 --> 00:53:30,800
think he has a whole video located in that area.

940
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,159
And he seems pretty reasonable. You know, a lot of

941
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,920
people on YouTube are how what should I say, enthusiasts

942
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:42,719
to every little sound is bigfoot and every little you know,

943
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:46,159
crack in the woods is big footed. But he seemed

944
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:49,079
very reasonable on his videos. And he even has a

945
00:53:49,159 --> 00:53:52,559
video of he left out his incorrect camera one night

946
00:53:53,239 --> 00:53:55,880
winning across the small Lake. I don't think it was

947
00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:01,159
near Sullivan Lake, but small little Lake. He just left

948
00:54:01,159 --> 00:54:04,079
it out at night, and at two in the morning

949
00:54:05,119 --> 00:54:12,719
he saw two upright individuals come out of the forest

950
00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:17,440
and start rummaging on the shoreline. They stayed out about

951
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:20,920
an hour or so and then went back into the forest.

952
00:54:20,960 --> 00:54:23,599
And he realized that the next day when he watched it.

953
00:54:23,679 --> 00:54:27,119
He went over there and there was no trail over there,

954
00:54:28,039 --> 00:54:31,480
and whatever had been there had been digging up clams

955
00:54:31,559 --> 00:54:33,559
in the middle of the night at two in the morning,

956
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:34,800
freshwater clams.

957
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:35,679
Speaker 1: Wow.

958
00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,239
Speaker 3: So yeah, So that was kind of our reason to

959
00:54:39,320 --> 00:54:44,079
pick northeastern Washington. I then went and called the ranger

960
00:54:44,079 --> 00:54:47,679
because I wanted to do my due diligence, and I

961
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,480
asked him where we could camp that was sort of

962
00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:55,480
as far away from the other campsites as possible, but

963
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,239
still we had access to the water. And the ranger

964
00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:04,440
suggested Gypsy Meadows, which is probably a mile or a

965
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:09,000
mile and a half half campsite, seventeen further into the wilderness,

966
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:12,320
but yet it had a bathroom maybe an eighth of

967
00:55:12,320 --> 00:55:15,519
a mile away if we beted it, and had fresh

968
00:55:15,599 --> 00:55:21,199
water with Sullivan Creek. So we sort of chose Gypsy

969
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,000
Meadows as the place that we were going based on

970
00:55:25,679 --> 00:55:29,559
that Will Fomer's videos.

971
00:55:31,760 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's that's when we decided to go. And

972
00:55:34,480 --> 00:55:35,920
you know, we you know, it was like, you know,

973
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:38,159
we talked about all these camps and we realized that

974
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:40,719
this was you know, it's a long like seventy eight

975
00:55:40,800 --> 00:55:44,320
miles up the dirt road, and the camps are all

976
00:55:44,360 --> 00:55:46,920
spread out. So when we got up to Gypsy Meadows,

977
00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,599
you know, it was we got there mid mid afternoon,

978
00:55:51,639 --> 00:55:55,880
you know, and we were we went to the end

979
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:58,000
of the campsite that we were you know, the farthest

980
00:55:58,039 --> 00:56:02,440
into the meadows, found a nice camp side over there

981
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:07,079
and set up camp there. We saw one guy in

982
00:56:07,119 --> 00:56:09,800
a trailer that was camp right in the camp round

983
00:56:09,880 --> 00:56:13,639
right before Gypsy Meadows on the same side. It is

984
00:56:13,639 --> 00:56:17,000
about an eighth of a mile from us. But you know,

985
00:56:17,039 --> 00:56:19,119
the meadow was about one hundred and fifty yards long

986
00:56:19,159 --> 00:56:22,280
and about fifty yards wide in that area, and you

987
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:24,679
could it was right close to the creek. You could

988
00:56:25,360 --> 00:56:27,920
drive up right close to the creek and get water

989
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:28,559
if you needed.

990
00:56:30,039 --> 00:56:33,199
Speaker 3: So we started setting up camp and you know, after

991
00:56:33,239 --> 00:56:35,760
getting my tent up in ten or fifteen minutes, I

992
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,079
start blowing up my airmattis with a you know, a

993
00:56:39,119 --> 00:56:42,960
little electric backpacking pump I have, and it makes a wine.

994
00:56:43,039 --> 00:56:45,920
The engine and the fan make a wine. As soon

995
00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:49,760
as I turned this on, we noticed that an owl

996
00:56:50,440 --> 00:56:53,400
in the middle of the afternoon our hoot at us

997
00:56:53,400 --> 00:56:57,039
from across the creek, maybe a quarter mile away. And

998
00:56:57,079 --> 00:56:59,559
it seemed a little stranger an owl would a hoot

999
00:56:59,679 --> 00:57:02,800
during the day. But we did some research and that

1000
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,719
was sort of the lower end of the range of

1001
00:57:06,800 --> 00:57:11,000
the bard owl, and sometimes it's known to hoot during

1002
00:57:11,000 --> 00:57:13,840
the day. So we didn't really think much of it.

1003
00:57:13,880 --> 00:57:18,239
But as soon as I turned off the the motor,

1004
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,199
hooting stopped, and we kind of mentioned the hooting, not

1005
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,320
that it couldn't be an owl, but but hooting sort

1006
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,840
of came before everything strange that.

1007
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:35,039
Speaker 1: Happened after that, and so we we didn't take much

1008
00:57:35,039 --> 00:57:37,000
of that. When we first happened, Hey, it sounded like

1009
00:57:37,000 --> 00:57:40,800
an hour, you know, it's just what started happening, you know,

1010
00:57:40,960 --> 00:57:46,000
later really got kind of kind of nuts. But so

1011
00:57:46,079 --> 00:57:48,320
we you know, we got there, we set up camp.

1012
00:57:48,360 --> 00:57:50,519
We still had an hour or two. So we went

1013
00:57:51,039 --> 00:57:53,199
you know, hiking at the end of the middle of

1014
00:57:53,360 --> 00:57:57,199
the trail that goes out, and then we crossed the

1015
00:57:57,239 --> 00:58:00,760
creek and started following some game trails and the things

1016
00:58:00,800 --> 00:58:06,000
that we had found. And I found like a you

1017
00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:08,239
know this time we're bringing you know, found a fourteen

1018
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:11,159
inch footprint and they go, Kurt, look at this, and

1019
00:58:11,199 --> 00:58:15,079
it's just it's just out in the forced that it's

1020
00:58:15,119 --> 00:58:18,480
not like a trail or anything. Found this indentation and

1021
00:58:19,440 --> 00:58:22,880
you know, an inch or two depth, and when we

1022
00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:25,119
stepped there, we're not making any dents in the ground

1023
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,920
with it. So that's interesting. It's a little bigger than

1024
00:58:28,920 --> 00:58:32,199
what our shoe was, but it was a lot deeper

1025
00:58:32,199 --> 00:58:35,840
than what we were doing. So the next day we

1026
00:58:35,920 --> 00:58:37,960
decided to go back and I tried to cast that.

1027
00:58:38,079 --> 00:58:41,760
It wasn't a great great print, but we'd never cast anything,

1028
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,519
and said, hey, it'll be good, good experience, you know,

1029
00:58:44,599 --> 00:58:46,760
good practice. Let's you know, see what we can do.

1030
00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,480
And hurt Us had brought in some you know, some

1031
00:58:49,639 --> 00:58:52,119
apples and peanut butter. We decided to put a game

1032
00:58:52,159 --> 00:58:55,679
camera on that area and put up these gifting things,

1033
00:58:56,079 --> 00:58:58,119
you know, and see if we could draw something in,

1034
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:04,679
you know, with that look. You know, that night you go, okay,

1035
00:59:04,679 --> 00:59:06,119
what are we want to do? You know this again

1036
00:59:06,320 --> 00:59:09,400
was you know, fire season, so we couldn't have a fire.

1037
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:11,760
So we said, hey, let's still driving, you know, so

1038
00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,920
we would go at night. You know, most of the

1039
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:15,719
nights we were there, we'd go driving on the road.

1040
00:59:16,320 --> 00:59:18,480
You know, I had a camera on my truck, you know,

1041
00:59:18,519 --> 00:59:20,800
pick up things that if someone's working run across because

1042
00:59:20,840 --> 00:59:23,800
you never know, right, you know, and and stuff. So

1043
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:26,880
we'd go driving around and we drove up into you know,

1044
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:30,639
a trailhead area you know, one afternoon and you know,

1045
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,519
we hiked and you could see how desolate it was

1046
00:59:33,599 --> 00:59:36,079
out there. You know. The only thing we saw one

1047
00:59:36,119 --> 00:59:39,599
place was the fire lookout building way up on another ridge.

1048
00:59:39,599 --> 00:59:42,800
But I mean you could see into Canada, Idahos, you know,

1049
00:59:43,039 --> 00:59:46,719
about five miles away, just wilderness stuff, So it's just

1050
00:59:46,760 --> 00:59:48,320
pretty pretty far out there.

1051
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:53,000
Speaker 2: Any signs of people other than the guy in the trailer.

1052
00:59:53,440 --> 00:59:56,199
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were a few who had been up at

1053
00:59:56,239 --> 00:59:59,719
the UH on the trail. We saw one guy hiking back.

1054
01:00:00,519 --> 01:00:02,519
His car was parked up there at the trailhead, and

1055
01:00:02,559 --> 01:00:07,960
we actually saw rangers up there on horses and they

1056
01:00:07,960 --> 01:00:10,599
were off on the trail where it went off in

1057
01:00:10,639 --> 01:00:13,639
the wilderness. They were just coming back as we went in.

1058
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:18,320
So yeah, we probably saw three other people. Now, the rangers,

1059
01:00:19,159 --> 01:00:23,519
you know, we got back to them to the trailhead

1060
01:00:23,559 --> 01:00:27,280
after we hiked, and they had loaded up their horses

1061
01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:31,039
into their trailer and they drove back as best we

1062
01:00:31,079 --> 01:00:34,000
could tell, clear to the ranger station which was at

1063
01:00:34,039 --> 01:00:39,320
Sullivan Lake like fifteen sixteen miles away. Now where these

1064
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:41,679
other people went when they came out of the trailhead,

1065
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:44,360
I have no idea, but you know, their car was

1066
01:00:44,400 --> 01:00:47,320
gone as well, So there were other people out there.

1067
01:00:48,480 --> 01:00:52,360
But then that evening you know, we were not allowed

1068
01:00:52,360 --> 01:00:57,480
to have fires, which is kind of disappointing. That's what

1069
01:00:57,519 --> 01:00:59,840
you do at night around a campfire. As you sit there,

1070
01:01:00,039 --> 01:01:03,239
it gives you warmth, and like watching the TV at home.

1071
01:01:04,119 --> 01:01:09,239
And right before bed, that same owl across the creek

1072
01:01:10,039 --> 01:01:13,239
started hooting a little bit, and it was kind of

1073
01:01:13,320 --> 01:01:15,480
right as we were turning off the lights. And again

1074
01:01:15,519 --> 01:01:18,559
we didn't think much of it. But that night, for

1075
01:01:18,639 --> 01:01:21,559
whatever reason, the previous night, I'd on the right asleep,

1076
01:01:21,559 --> 01:01:23,320
but that night I just could not get to sleep.

1077
01:01:23,360 --> 01:01:24,880
I don't know if it was that I was on

1078
01:01:24,920 --> 01:01:29,280
a mattress or what. And we probably went to bed

1079
01:01:29,320 --> 01:01:33,760
about nine thirty. In about ten to twelve, I looked

1080
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:37,239
at my watch. I still wasn't asleep, and about fifteen

1081
01:01:37,239 --> 01:01:41,679
minutes later, that owl started hooting again, and this time

1082
01:01:41,719 --> 01:01:45,320
it just didn't stop. I mean it was like four

1083
01:01:45,400 --> 01:01:49,119
hoops and then another set of four hoots. Wait ten

1084
01:01:49,239 --> 01:01:51,679
or fifteen seconds.

1085
01:01:51,079 --> 01:01:51,639
Speaker 1: Do it again.

1086
01:01:52,280 --> 01:01:54,599
Speaker 3: And this went on for probably a minute and a

1087
01:01:54,599 --> 01:01:59,519
half and there were no responses to his call or

1088
01:01:59,559 --> 01:02:04,840
her call, and then the hoots started getting quicker. They

1089
01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,400
sounded louder. I don't know if it had come closer.

1090
01:02:08,760 --> 01:02:13,360
And then the hoots degenerated into what I clearly believe

1091
01:02:13,400 --> 01:02:18,679
I heard were whoops, not hoots. They were whoops. And

1092
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,760
after a couple of whoops, all of a sudden, to

1093
01:02:23,960 --> 01:02:26,199
our north, and this was off to the west. If

1094
01:02:26,239 --> 01:02:29,119
we had heard this one owl off to the north,

1095
01:02:29,159 --> 01:02:31,800
there was a response of hoots and it was a

1096
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:37,039
clearly a deeper voice. And then behind our camp upper ridge,

1097
01:02:37,119 --> 01:02:41,519
there was another response and they were hoots. But once

1098
01:02:41,639 --> 01:02:45,960
that whatever that being was owl or other, once it

1099
01:02:46,079 --> 01:02:52,119
heard a response, it stopped hooting. After about two minutes. Well,

1100
01:02:52,239 --> 01:02:54,679
you know, now I'm kind of wondering what this was.

1101
01:02:54,760 --> 01:02:57,920
And again rookie mistake. We didn't have our recorders out,

1102
01:02:58,679 --> 01:03:01,159
but I tried to go back to and next thing

1103
01:03:01,199 --> 01:03:04,199
I know, it starts up again. I look at my watch.

1104
01:03:04,800 --> 01:03:07,400
It's now about an hour later, and I hadn't fallen

1105
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:12,039
the sleep, same exact pattern you know, that started shooting.

1106
01:03:13,320 --> 01:03:17,480
The hoots turned to loops. Once they got loops, the

1107
01:03:17,559 --> 01:03:21,960
responses came back, and uh, next thing I know, it

1108
01:03:22,079 --> 01:03:24,880
seems like it was only five minutes later, I'm being

1109
01:03:24,920 --> 01:03:28,159
awakened by David. But I apparently had finally fallen asleep,

1110
01:03:28,239 --> 01:03:31,960
and about two fifteen two thirty, he wakes me up

1111
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:35,559
and he found he had heard something even more astonishing.

1112
01:03:37,599 --> 01:03:42,679
Speaker 1: So there had I mean that afternoon another some other

1113
01:03:42,760 --> 01:03:45,920
campers came in, or the couple guys showed up. We

1114
01:03:45,920 --> 01:03:48,119
were about seventeen eighteen year old and then one that

1115
01:03:48,199 --> 01:03:49,840
the other one was in his late twenties or so

1116
01:03:49,880 --> 01:03:53,000
I would guess about that. But they were at the

1117
01:03:53,039 --> 01:03:54,960
other end of the meadow, which was about one hundred

1118
01:03:55,000 --> 01:03:58,440
and fifty yards away from us and stuff that. So

1119
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,679
I got woken up about one thirty year to somewhere

1120
01:04:00,679 --> 01:04:03,400
in that time, and I started hearing this whoop, you know,

1121
01:04:03,760 --> 01:04:08,360
the whoops again and it was but it was close,

1122
01:04:08,400 --> 01:04:11,440
and it was it was loud, and you know, I

1123
01:04:11,440 --> 01:04:14,199
get up started listening to this thing and it was

1124
01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:19,320
moving and I was like, that is nuts. It was like,

1125
01:04:21,039 --> 01:04:23,519
but it was going from right for the from right

1126
01:04:23,559 --> 01:04:25,840
to left. If I was looking towards those guys camp,

1127
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:30,440
he was going from right to left and from the

1128
01:04:30,519 --> 01:04:34,559
creek to the road and up the ridge up there.

1129
01:04:34,840 --> 01:04:38,440
Would you say about a one hundred and fifty yards Curt, Yeah,

1130
01:04:38,639 --> 01:04:43,119
it was easily easily, but this thing was moving and

1131
01:04:43,639 --> 01:04:46,039
I would say as over fifteen or twenty seconds, this

1132
01:04:46,039 --> 01:04:48,079
thing was moving from where the creek was where we

1133
01:04:48,119 --> 01:04:50,719
would get water. I was like, whoop, poop, and then

1134
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,519
it started moving right I thought it was going right

1135
01:04:53,559 --> 01:04:55,400
through those guys camp. I thought it was like right

1136
01:04:55,440 --> 01:04:58,199
on top of them, you know, where your perspective where

1137
01:04:58,199 --> 01:05:01,559
you're trying to see the sound. But right in the

1138
01:05:01,559 --> 01:05:03,800
middle of all there was a whoop, whoop, whoop. All

1139
01:05:03,840 --> 01:05:06,000
of a sudden, I hear this garbling that all I

1140
01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:11,199
can describe it, right, you know, they sounds like share sounds.

1141
01:05:11,960 --> 01:05:16,000
It hurts here sounds and it goes that is not whooping.

1142
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,639
And then they kept going. It's kept moving and then

1143
01:05:19,719 --> 01:05:22,079
it got back to whoop, whoop, whoop, and admit it

1144
01:05:22,239 --> 01:05:24,920
just went on up the ridge with it. And I

1145
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:26,960
was waking up. Chris, did you hear that? You know

1146
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,159
what the heck was that? And he comes climbing out.

1147
01:05:30,559 --> 01:05:33,000
We looked down the meadow and these two guys are

1148
01:05:33,039 --> 01:05:35,880
climbing out of their tent with their flashlights, looking around

1149
01:05:35,920 --> 01:05:41,039
and seeing what the heck's going on. And so it

1150
01:05:41,079 --> 01:05:43,719
was about to two o'clock to thirty, you know, at

1151
01:05:43,719 --> 01:05:47,199
that time, and we didn't hear anything else after that,

1152
01:05:47,239 --> 01:05:49,480
but I was kind of like, that is crazy, and

1153
01:05:49,480 --> 01:05:53,599
again we hadn't had we hadn't you know, we're doing rookies. Again,

1154
01:05:53,679 --> 01:05:56,920
we hadn't turned on our recorders that night, being it

1155
01:05:56,880 --> 01:05:58,519
was the first or second night that we were there,

1156
01:05:59,320 --> 01:06:03,840
and so we were like that is nuts. So we

1157
01:06:03,880 --> 01:06:06,159
finally went back to bed, and then you know, the

1158
01:06:06,239 --> 01:06:08,440
next morning, you know, we went.

1159
01:06:08,559 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 3: Up so reathfull night sleep obviously, but I went got

1160
01:06:14,800 --> 01:06:17,039
back in bed about two or thirty, like David said,

1161
01:06:17,079 --> 01:06:19,400
and we'd all been out, all four of us, looking

1162
01:06:19,400 --> 01:06:22,719
around this meadow with our flat flights, trying to figure

1163
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:26,000
out what had made the sound. And I hadn't heard

1164
01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:28,800
the Sierra sounds like David had. I had only heard

1165
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:32,400
the hoots and whoops, you know, at midnight and one o'clock.

1166
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:35,920
I must have fallen asleep in between, but eventually get

1167
01:06:35,960 --> 01:06:38,400
back to bed, kind of in and out of sleep.

1168
01:06:38,880 --> 01:06:42,719
Finally I see light coming in around six am, and

1169
01:06:42,880 --> 01:06:44,960
I decided, I'm not sleeping anymore. I'm just going to

1170
01:06:45,000 --> 01:06:47,440
get up and walk to a court or an eighth

1171
01:06:47,480 --> 01:06:48,920
of a mile or so to the bathroom.

1172
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:50,039
Speaker 4: And when I got down.

1173
01:06:49,840 --> 01:06:54,079
Speaker 3: There, the older of the two guys who had been

1174
01:06:54,559 --> 01:06:57,360
in that and at the other end of the meadow

1175
01:06:58,039 --> 01:07:00,840
was coming out of the bathroom, and I, I kind

1176
01:07:00,880 --> 01:07:04,239
of wanted to ask him what's what he what his

1177
01:07:04,360 --> 01:07:07,639
experience was, without you know, giving him a leading question.

1178
01:07:07,719 --> 01:07:10,480
And I said, boy, that was kind of a crazy night,

1179
01:07:10,679 --> 01:07:13,960
wasn't it. And he said, yeah, what was that? And

1180
01:07:14,039 --> 01:07:16,880
I shrugged my shoulders and said, I don't know, just

1181
01:07:16,960 --> 01:07:20,159
you know, trying to get him to to tell me

1182
01:07:20,199 --> 01:07:22,559
what had happened. And he said, man, I think there

1183
01:07:22,599 --> 01:07:24,800
was more than one of more than one of them,

1184
01:07:24,840 --> 01:07:27,840
whatever it was, and they were right on top of him.

1185
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:30,519
One may have even been up in the tree above

1186
01:07:30,559 --> 01:07:34,639
my tent. And he said they He said, they started,

1187
01:07:35,159 --> 01:07:38,880
you know, running past my tent eventually, and then up

1188
01:07:39,119 --> 01:07:42,079
across the little road going into the meadow, up the

1189
01:07:42,159 --> 01:07:45,599
ridge behind your camp, and they were gone. And he said,

1190
01:07:45,760 --> 01:07:50,440
and while they were running, they were barking. And I said,

1191
01:07:50,559 --> 01:07:53,320
you mean like a dog and he said, well, not really,

1192
01:07:53,320 --> 01:07:56,519
but that's the only way I can describe it. And

1193
01:07:56,559 --> 01:08:00,800
so I said to him, well, can you imitate what

1194
01:08:00,960 --> 01:08:05,039
you heard? And he kind of did his best, and

1195
01:08:05,079 --> 01:08:09,320
it sounded he repeated exactly what David just did. It

1196
01:08:09,519 --> 01:08:14,639
sounded exactly like the Sierra Sounds. So David had was

1197
01:08:14,679 --> 01:08:17,439
still asleep, but we had confirmation that what David had

1198
01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:22,560
heard was exactly what this guy had heard. And he said, well,

1199
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:24,680
what was that? I said, I don't know, but if

1200
01:08:24,720 --> 01:08:28,079
you ever heard of the Sierra sounds and he said no,

1201
01:08:28,319 --> 01:08:30,640
I haven't, And I said, well, what do you think

1202
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,319
of bigfoot? And he kind of had a nervous chuckle

1203
01:08:33,399 --> 01:08:37,159
and shrugged his shoulders and kind of turned around and

1204
01:08:37,199 --> 01:08:41,079
walked back towards his camp. Incidentally, I don't know if

1205
01:08:41,119 --> 01:08:43,359
they had planned it. I didn't talk to him again,

1206
01:08:43,439 --> 01:08:46,159
but shortly after breakfast they were out of there. I

1207
01:08:46,840 --> 01:08:50,359
don't know because what they heard or that was their

1208
01:08:50,560 --> 01:08:53,840
plan to only be there one night, but they were

1209
01:08:54,079 --> 01:08:58,960
pretty much gone right after breakfast. So here at six fifteen,

1210
01:08:59,119 --> 01:09:01,560
I talked to this guy for about five or ten minutes.

1211
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:05,880
David's asleep before I get done going to the bathroom.

1212
01:09:06,720 --> 01:09:09,199
They both described that it went up this ridge and

1213
01:09:09,680 --> 01:09:13,119
across the main road. So I walked out to the

1214
01:09:13,119 --> 01:09:16,159
main road and locked up the road maybe one hundred

1215
01:09:16,159 --> 01:09:19,720
and fifty yards, and that was probably about the level

1216
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:22,960
of our camp, you know, into the meadow. It was

1217
01:09:23,239 --> 01:09:26,720
essentially parallel to our camp, and I noticed across the

1218
01:09:26,840 --> 01:09:30,399
road a tree break that was about nine or ten

1219
01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:34,119
feet up and it was clearly a tree break sort

1220
01:09:34,159 --> 01:09:38,159
of pointing further into the wilderness. And it was right

1221
01:09:38,239 --> 01:09:40,880
up against the road, was sort of right up against

1222
01:09:40,880 --> 01:09:42,840
the incline that I would ask to make was at

1223
01:09:42,840 --> 01:09:48,279
about fifty degrees, and something had sort of turned up

1224
01:09:48,319 --> 01:09:51,119
the dirt up that you know, the grass and stuff

1225
01:09:51,199 --> 01:09:53,840
up that incline, and this is not something that I

1226
01:09:53,880 --> 01:09:58,399
would be trying to climb, but whatever had had come

1227
01:09:58,439 --> 01:10:02,520
across the road literally went up the incline right next

1228
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,319
to this tree break. So I start thinking, well, there's

1229
01:10:05,319 --> 01:10:08,560
got to be a game trail that they came, you know,

1230
01:10:08,600 --> 01:10:11,479
from behind our camp up to the road. If I

1231
01:10:11,560 --> 01:10:14,239
crossed the road and start looking, and sure enough, I

1232
01:10:14,359 --> 01:10:16,479
find a game trail coming out. So I kind of

1233
01:10:16,920 --> 01:10:19,760
mark it with a stick and make sure we can

1234
01:10:19,800 --> 01:10:23,840
find it later if we set up there. And you know,

1235
01:10:23,880 --> 01:10:25,520
even though it was maybe one hundred to one hundred

1236
01:10:25,520 --> 01:10:27,760
and fifty yards behind our camp up to the road,

1237
01:10:28,399 --> 01:10:31,399
this was dense forest. It was you know that saying

1238
01:10:31,439 --> 01:10:34,399
you can't see the forest because of the trees from

1239
01:10:34,439 --> 01:10:37,920
the road. I'm looking in I just see trees, you know,

1240
01:10:38,000 --> 01:10:43,039
That's all I see. So I walk back to our

1241
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:47,600
camp and as I get to the meadow, David is

1242
01:10:47,680 --> 01:10:51,560
kind of there looking in the grass that had been trampled,

1243
01:10:52,640 --> 01:10:56,359
you know, trying to see what he could see.

1244
01:10:56,560 --> 01:10:58,159
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just trying to see if there had

1245
01:10:58,199 --> 01:11:02,760
to be some type of tracks or something going across there.

1246
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:06,079
It's you know, there's multiple area that's like trampled down,

1247
01:11:06,119 --> 01:11:09,520
but it couldn't get any definite you know, prints or things.

1248
01:11:09,560 --> 01:11:11,960
But I said, we've had to be right through these

1249
01:11:11,960 --> 01:11:13,800
guys camp. So it's kind of looking and we found

1250
01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:17,960
a couple of game trails behind their camp. They crossed

1251
01:11:17,960 --> 01:11:22,920
the road and went you know, across this meadow area

1252
01:11:23,000 --> 01:11:25,079
that I was trying to look for prints and stuff.

1253
01:11:25,079 --> 01:11:30,319
And then so we decided to start following this trail trailways.

1254
01:11:30,840 --> 01:11:35,239
We got going and following, like, you know, hey, I

1255
01:11:35,319 --> 01:11:38,039
think this looks open here, let's start going this way.

1256
01:11:38,079 --> 01:11:40,600
And we started following this trailway. Then we end up

1257
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:47,279
coming on this we find this real huge X you know,

1258
01:11:47,439 --> 01:11:49,079
of these trees, and we're looking at that and go

1259
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:52,359
look at this, you know, and it's a perfect X

1260
01:11:52,399 --> 01:11:55,479
and these are large trees, and you know, we're trying

1261
01:11:55,479 --> 01:11:58,239
to say is this normal or is this happened by

1262
01:11:58,279 --> 01:12:00,760
stance or what was it that it? You know, two

1263
01:12:00,800 --> 01:12:05,279
standing trees are you know about you know, six you know,

1264
01:12:05,319 --> 01:12:08,439
six feet apart and about a foot thick, and they're

1265
01:12:08,479 --> 01:12:11,560
bent over forming this perfect X, you know, and it's

1266
01:12:11,640 --> 01:12:14,279
right on this game trail that we were tracking, you know,

1267
01:12:14,359 --> 01:12:17,960
to go up there, and you know, the first tree

1268
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,000
had been pushed over, you know, had a rip ball

1269
01:12:20,039 --> 01:12:22,960
on it, you know, it started coming up with it.

1270
01:12:24,039 --> 01:12:26,279
It was wedged between two other trees. But the second

1271
01:12:26,319 --> 01:12:30,880
one was strange was that in order for it to

1272
01:12:30,880 --> 01:12:34,239
form the X, the tree had to be twisted and

1273
01:12:34,319 --> 01:12:36,279
you could tell we took pictures of that, but the

1274
01:12:36,319 --> 01:12:38,920
bottom of the tree wasn't being pulled up, but it

1275
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:42,359
was rotated and twisted. It's like you pull this tree

1276
01:12:42,399 --> 01:12:45,600
down and push it over to fit between these two

1277
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:48,359
trees in order to form the sex. There's like no

1278
01:12:48,479 --> 01:12:50,119
way that was going to fall that way, and it

1279
01:12:50,159 --> 01:12:53,319
wasn't falling. It was still in the ground and you

1280
01:12:53,560 --> 01:12:56,039
just pushed over and twisted. You could see the rotation

1281
01:12:56,119 --> 01:12:58,399
in the bark at the bottom of the tree. You know,

1282
01:12:58,399 --> 01:13:03,279
we're breaking off and rotating and that's not natural, you know.

1283
01:13:04,039 --> 01:13:08,720
And what was crazy was that right after that we

1284
01:13:08,800 --> 01:13:10,840
fall the trail. We ended up right where Curtis had

1285
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:13,039
marked marked his trail. Wow.

1286
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:17,800
Speaker 2: An interesting point about the guy that you spoke to.

1287
01:13:18,880 --> 01:13:23,720
I notice you said that he related that they were running.

1288
01:13:24,640 --> 01:13:27,800
Speaker 3: I think it's because of how quickly they moved. I mean,

1289
01:13:28,279 --> 01:13:32,920
as David said this area, he was probably maybe thirty

1290
01:13:33,039 --> 01:13:36,920
yards from the creek. But you know, from the sounds

1291
01:13:36,920 --> 01:13:39,399
of what David had described, and this guy had described

1292
01:13:39,960 --> 01:13:46,640
whatever they were had come from across the creek, and

1293
01:13:46,680 --> 01:13:49,760
he was probably thirty yards from the creek, maybe a

1294
01:13:49,800 --> 01:13:52,560
little more, and then another one hundred to one hundred

1295
01:13:52,560 --> 01:13:56,079
and fifty yards up the trail. And by the time

1296
01:13:56,239 --> 01:13:58,279
David gets out of his tent and wakes me up,

1297
01:14:00,079 --> 01:14:02,520
nothing is heard. I never heard any of this. So

1298
01:14:02,600 --> 01:14:08,079
whatever happened, No, it covered a tremendous amount of ground

1299
01:14:08,199 --> 01:14:11,720
or they covered a tremendous amount of ground in fifteen

1300
01:14:12,279 --> 01:14:15,359
twenty seconds. It covered maybe one hundred and fifty to

1301
01:14:15,359 --> 01:14:20,000
two hundred yards. So I don't know, he didn't see anything,

1302
01:14:20,399 --> 01:14:24,359
he just you know, heard I guess stomping.

1303
01:14:23,920 --> 01:14:24,399
Speaker 1: If you would.

1304
01:14:24,479 --> 01:14:26,720
Speaker 3: I don't know how football, I guess the better way

1305
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:30,119
of saying it. And because of the distance they covered,

1306
01:14:30,279 --> 01:14:32,000
you know, he couldn't get out of his pant quick

1307
01:14:32,119 --> 01:14:35,159
enough either to see anything. I think he assumed they

1308
01:14:35,159 --> 01:14:38,680
were running. I really don't know. I didn't question him

1309
01:14:38,680 --> 01:14:38,880
on that.

1310
01:14:40,399 --> 01:14:42,960
Speaker 1: I was moving fast, and you know, if I was

1311
01:14:43,000 --> 01:14:46,520
looking at degrees on pointing it towards the creek, all

1312
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:48,600
the way to where it disappeared had to be within

1313
01:14:49,520 --> 01:14:50,760
twenty or thirty seconds.

1314
01:14:51,199 --> 01:14:54,680
Speaker 2: Was this all open meadow or were there trees?

1315
01:14:54,920 --> 01:15:00,560
Speaker 1: No, it's well the meadow where their camp was. They

1316
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:03,279
were at the end of the meadow, so I had

1317
01:15:03,319 --> 01:15:05,119
thought that it sounded like it was going right through

1318
01:15:05,119 --> 01:15:07,920
their camp, but they said it was like behind, right

1319
01:15:07,960 --> 01:15:11,439
behind them. And we did find those two large game

1320
01:15:11,479 --> 01:15:14,560
trails that went from the creek right behind their camp

1321
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:18,359
across the entrance road that goes into the meadow, and

1322
01:15:18,399 --> 01:15:21,119
that's where we started our trail and went up and

1323
01:15:21,119 --> 01:15:24,560
found that X up there. So it was right close

1324
01:15:24,640 --> 01:15:27,399
to them, but it was through the woods from the

1325
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:30,359
creek to where it got to the you know, the

1326
01:15:30,439 --> 01:15:31,760
road that goes into the meadow.

1327
01:15:32,439 --> 01:15:37,359
Speaker 2: A couple hundred yards at around two two thirty in

1328
01:15:37,399 --> 01:15:40,800
the middle in the morning burnband, so there's no there's

1329
01:15:40,840 --> 01:15:43,399
no light, there's no light. So whatever it was that

1330
01:15:43,560 --> 01:15:51,119
was traveling at that speed in Pitt's black darkness and.

1331
01:15:51,079 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 1: Then garbletalk, you know, and then back to eating, you know,

1332
01:15:56,920 --> 01:16:00,359
as they went up the up the ridge.

1333
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:05,439
Speaker 3: So that was world class speed basically, you know. And

1334
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,279
like I said, I hadn't hadn't heard all of that,

1335
01:16:08,960 --> 01:16:13,600
but David's was twenty feet from mine, and literally what

1336
01:16:13,640 --> 01:16:16,159
he told me was, you know, he'd heard these hoots,

1337
01:16:16,159 --> 01:16:19,720
but once he heard it moving, he unzipped his sleeping bag,

1338
01:16:19,800 --> 01:16:23,359
unlipped his tent and was at my tent. However long

1339
01:16:23,399 --> 01:16:27,359
it takes to travel twenty feet and he's trying to

1340
01:16:27,399 --> 01:16:31,560
get me up, and when I wake up, I hear nothing.

1341
01:16:32,199 --> 01:16:35,199
So you know, whatever mind framed that is. You know,

1342
01:16:35,640 --> 01:16:39,039
David said it was measured in seconds, not in minutes

1343
01:16:39,079 --> 01:16:39,800
by any means.

1344
01:16:42,239 --> 01:16:46,399
Speaker 2: I mean, as someone who has heard the hero sounds. David,

1345
01:16:48,319 --> 01:16:49,840
what did you think when you heard that?

1346
01:16:52,319 --> 01:16:56,840
Speaker 1: I was like, that is talking, you know, that was

1347
01:16:56,920 --> 01:16:59,199
to me it was there was communication going on with

1348
01:17:00,039 --> 01:17:03,720
being that fast across it, and it was like that

1349
01:17:03,880 --> 01:17:05,800
was amazing. What did I just hear? And I go

1350
01:17:05,920 --> 01:17:08,199
The on thing I could describe it was, you know,

1351
01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:10,680
that came to my mind was, you know, the Sierra

1352
01:17:10,760 --> 01:17:15,079
sounds sh sounds were a little more separated in the

1353
01:17:15,279 --> 01:17:17,279
you know, in the conversation if you if you know

1354
01:17:17,319 --> 01:17:19,159
what I mean by that, you know, you hear one

1355
01:17:19,239 --> 01:17:22,000
and then hear another. This was like a they were

1356
01:17:22,079 --> 01:17:25,800
just at each other right right, right right, you know,

1357
01:17:25,840 --> 01:17:28,359
it's like right, you know, and then it gets back

1358
01:17:28,359 --> 01:17:29,039
into the hooting.

1359
01:17:29,600 --> 01:17:32,840
Speaker 2: From your perspective, could you did it sound like two

1360
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:34,279
distinct voices?

1361
01:17:36,560 --> 01:17:39,439
Speaker 1: It sounded more than that. It sounded to me like

1362
01:17:39,479 --> 01:17:42,600
there was like three different at least three different things going.

1363
01:17:43,600 --> 01:17:45,920
You know. It was a it was a pack of something,

1364
01:17:46,000 --> 01:17:48,479
you know. To me, it was all I could see

1365
01:17:48,600 --> 01:17:52,279
was this, there's something group of something going across there

1366
01:17:52,279 --> 01:17:53,199
and they're moving.

1367
01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:57,800
Speaker 3: Fast and and and then David's uh, you know, just

1368
01:17:57,840 --> 01:18:02,000
to give him more creams to what he said without prompting,

1369
01:18:02,399 --> 01:18:05,840
the guy had said they to me, and he said

1370
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:08,439
there was more than one of them. So and the

1371
01:18:08,520 --> 01:18:11,560
interesting thing, you know, he thought one of them might

1372
01:18:11,680 --> 01:18:14,159
at one point been in a tree up above him.

1373
01:18:14,199 --> 01:18:17,920
And as David said they were stamped right on the

1374
01:18:18,119 --> 01:18:22,439
edge of where the forest met the meadow. They were

1375
01:18:22,439 --> 01:18:25,520
maybe ten feet into the meadow. Is all so very

1376
01:18:25,560 --> 01:18:29,000
easily something could have been above them, or I suppose,

1377
01:18:29,439 --> 01:18:32,359
you know, the other explanation for something being right above

1378
01:18:32,439 --> 01:18:35,760
their kent not being in trigue maybe if something was

1379
01:18:36,359 --> 01:18:37,199
ten feet tall.

1380
01:18:38,000 --> 01:18:39,640
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, we're not used to

1381
01:18:39,640 --> 01:18:41,960
hearing things eight to ten feet off the ground, so

1382
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:43,760
right right.

1383
01:18:44,119 --> 01:18:46,720
Speaker 3: So whether something was actually in the tree or not,

1384
01:18:47,039 --> 01:18:49,880
I don't know, but that's how he described it. And

1385
01:18:49,960 --> 01:18:54,399
he definitely said they and them and it was not

1386
01:18:54,760 --> 01:18:59,399
one of one. Whatever it was behind his tent that night.

1387
01:19:01,359 --> 01:19:04,079
Speaker 2: Did you guys stay any more nights after that?

1388
01:19:05,600 --> 01:19:08,319
Speaker 1: Yeah? That was like on the second night you know

1389
01:19:08,399 --> 01:19:10,760
that we were there that that happened. It just kind

1390
01:19:10,760 --> 01:19:14,359
of strange, you know, after we went the evening after

1391
01:19:14,399 --> 01:19:18,319
we did that, we were broken up again by these

1392
01:19:18,319 --> 01:19:21,920
hoots again coming across the creek. And I think Curtis,

1393
01:19:21,960 --> 01:19:24,600
you heard something walking, you know.

1394
01:19:24,640 --> 01:19:30,319
Speaker 3: Yeah, about eleven thirty the hoots started across the cross

1395
01:19:30,439 --> 01:19:36,840
the creek. I had a recorder out that night. I

1396
01:19:36,960 --> 01:19:40,159
still I've had some technical issues. I haven't been able

1397
01:19:40,159 --> 01:19:42,800
to listen to the whole thing. I had it down

1398
01:19:42,920 --> 01:19:46,039
close to where that guy's camp was. There was a

1399
01:19:46,279 --> 01:19:50,720
sort of a gypsy meadows sign that I had taped

1400
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:53,479
from my recorder to I'm still trying to get through

1401
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:56,399
it to see if it picked up these hoots. But

1402
01:19:56,520 --> 01:20:00,520
about eleven thirty hoots across the creek, and then maybe

1403
01:20:00,920 --> 01:20:06,800
five or ten minutes later, I hear something moving behind

1404
01:20:07,039 --> 01:20:11,199
our tents up this ridge and I couldn't estimate how

1405
01:20:11,199 --> 01:20:13,119
close it was, but it was close enough to hear,

1406
01:20:13,640 --> 01:20:18,239
you know, football. Now, I can't say, even though I'm

1407
01:20:18,239 --> 01:20:20,600
an orthopedic surgeon that I could say what was traveling

1408
01:20:20,600 --> 01:20:24,279
there was bipedal, but something was definitely moving in the

1409
01:20:24,760 --> 01:20:27,399
in the forest right behind us. And then you know,

1410
01:20:27,520 --> 01:20:31,359
shortly after, maybe a few minutes after I heard this movement,

1411
01:20:32,239 --> 01:20:35,640
kind of all hell broke loose with hoots all around us.

1412
01:20:35,680 --> 01:20:39,279
And David could say more about that because they were

1413
01:20:39,319 --> 01:20:40,399
real close to his tent.

1414
01:20:41,720 --> 01:20:45,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was about that evening. There was something that

1415
01:20:46,119 --> 01:20:50,840
just was like ten yards from my tent and it

1416
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:52,880
was you know, there's like a post where you used

1417
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:54,760
to tie horses in the meadow, and I felt it

1418
01:20:54,800 --> 01:20:56,359
was like right by that post, and it woke me up,

1419
01:20:56,359 --> 01:20:59,560
and it just you know, and I was going, you know,

1420
01:20:59,600 --> 01:21:02,479
we had started talking and are these things big fits

1421
01:21:02,560 --> 01:21:04,720
or are they mimicking owls or what are they? But

1422
01:21:04,760 --> 01:21:07,079
what is this sound? You know that we keep hearing

1423
01:21:07,840 --> 01:21:10,520
and you know that they go to woops. So we

1424
01:21:10,520 --> 01:21:12,439
did not know. But this thing was right outside my

1425
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:15,520
tent and it was loud, and I in the dark.

1426
01:21:15,600 --> 01:21:18,199
I was like, do I turn on a light? Do

1427
01:21:18,359 --> 01:21:20,359
I get out of my tent right now? After this

1428
01:21:20,399 --> 01:21:23,680
thing is standing yeah, in the middle, in the middle

1429
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:25,079
of the meadow, not in the tree. It was like

1430
01:21:25,119 --> 01:21:27,399
in the middle of the middle. And so I grabbed

1431
01:21:27,399 --> 01:21:30,479
my phone and put the recorder on. I had planned

1432
01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:32,439
to have it already ready to go in case something

1433
01:21:32,479 --> 01:21:35,039
woke up. And by the time I turned it on,

1434
01:21:35,119 --> 01:21:39,600
this this loud hoover had moved across the meadow and

1435
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:44,359
was still going, you know, and you know, I got

1436
01:21:44,359 --> 01:21:46,279
some of those sounds, and it sounds like, you know,

1437
01:21:46,479 --> 01:21:48,439
we we compare it to bar owls, but that's what

1438
01:21:48,479 --> 01:21:51,520
it sounds like. But they eventually the end of the

1439
01:21:51,880 --> 01:21:54,279
you know, some of the ends of the hooting kind

1440
01:21:54,279 --> 01:21:57,720
of trails off and it becomes something different, and then

1441
01:21:58,000 --> 01:22:00,000
that kept going on. Then we started hearing. I started

1442
01:22:00,119 --> 01:22:04,920
hearing things further away, you know, towards the North Moor

1443
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:09,880
and then out behind our camp right then and so again,

1444
01:22:09,920 --> 01:22:13,079
after a little bit, I got those sounds on my iPhone.

1445
01:22:13,640 --> 01:22:16,600
You know, that was good. But the original, the one

1446
01:22:16,600 --> 01:22:19,960
that was ten yards away, I'm like, so I get out,

1447
01:22:20,119 --> 01:22:22,079
you know, I had my forty four, but I'm not

1448
01:22:22,359 --> 01:22:26,479
do I climb out of it standing outside here, you know,

1449
01:22:26,760 --> 01:22:30,960
But that was that was pretty you know, pretty freaky

1450
01:22:31,039 --> 01:22:33,560
to have something that close to you yelling that loud.

1451
01:22:33,840 --> 01:22:36,000
It was just a lot. It was tremendously loud.

1452
01:22:36,520 --> 01:22:39,039
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I was awake, you know, I don't

1453
01:22:39,039 --> 01:22:39,920
know anybody.

1454
01:22:39,560 --> 01:22:42,039
Speaker 3: Can stuff too. It was, like David said, close, It

1455
01:22:42,119 --> 01:22:44,760
was not. When they started, they had been maybe a

1456
01:22:44,840 --> 01:22:48,199
quarter mile away where everything had started before. But now,

1457
01:22:48,680 --> 01:22:50,920
you know, I was probably twenty feet further from David,

1458
01:22:51,039 --> 01:22:53,720
so maybe I was fifty feet from where it started.

1459
01:22:54,239 --> 01:22:57,000
But something did answer it off to the north and

1460
01:22:57,560 --> 01:23:01,399
off to the area where I'd heard football football off

1461
01:23:01,399 --> 01:23:07,720
to our east. So anyway, one time the day before

1462
01:23:08,279 --> 01:23:10,479
we had been one of our hypes come up to

1463
01:23:11,199 --> 01:23:14,119
where an owl was up in a tree and it

1464
01:23:14,159 --> 01:23:17,039
was probably sixty feet up in the tree, and when

1465
01:23:17,039 --> 01:23:19,520
we got to within one hundred feet of it, it

1466
01:23:19,560 --> 01:23:21,640
took off. It didn't want to have anything to do

1467
01:23:21,720 --> 01:23:25,399
with us. And when it took those first four or

1468
01:23:25,479 --> 01:23:28,600
five wing flaps from one hundred feet away, you could

1469
01:23:28,600 --> 01:23:31,640
hear a whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. It you know, started to

1470
01:23:31,680 --> 01:23:35,000
get up the energy to fly. And like David said,

1471
01:23:35,000 --> 01:23:38,199
as this thing moved away from you know, right on

1472
01:23:38,279 --> 01:23:42,079
the meadow just outside his tent, to across the meadow,

1473
01:23:42,720 --> 01:23:46,359
there was no wing flap that occurred. I mean, whatever

1474
01:23:46,960 --> 01:23:51,000
had traveled across that fifty yards without that same noise

1475
01:23:51,159 --> 01:23:55,920
of the of the owl. So again, you know, we

1476
01:23:55,960 --> 01:23:59,760
didn't pick up any pictures or or or anything like

1477
01:23:59,800 --> 01:24:02,640
that on our game trails, but something got very close

1478
01:24:02,680 --> 01:24:06,000
to our tents and then you know, we go back

1479
01:24:06,039 --> 01:24:08,720
to bed the next but I didn't hear anything more

1480
01:24:08,760 --> 01:24:11,119
of the rest of the night. David's been listening to

1481
01:24:11,279 --> 01:24:14,960
his recordings and like you said, he's been comparing them

1482
01:24:15,159 --> 01:24:19,000
to bar owls, and they're similar, but they're definitely different

1483
01:24:19,079 --> 01:24:23,279
on his spectrum analysis. So you know, again that we're

1484
01:24:23,359 --> 01:24:26,680
these owls, I don't think so because it didn't fly away.

1485
01:24:26,760 --> 01:24:32,159
Owls don't typically run away, you know, and this spectrum

1486
01:24:32,159 --> 01:24:35,840
analysis is slightly different. But the next morning we want

1487
01:24:35,920 --> 01:24:40,199
both walked down towards the bathroom again and this little

1488
01:24:40,279 --> 01:24:43,880
road that led into the meadow had been scraped, you know,

1489
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:46,600
out of the out of the forest, and it was

1490
01:24:46,720 --> 01:24:50,399
essentially hard pack and we could stomp on it even

1491
01:24:50,520 --> 01:24:53,800
on wet ground, and we wouldn't leave a footprint. But

1492
01:24:54,159 --> 01:24:59,119
David's one truck had left a track and where the

1493
01:24:59,520 --> 01:25:01,960
tired and it had chewed up a little bit of

1494
01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:05,119
a dirt and there was a about an eighteen inch

1495
01:25:05,399 --> 01:25:08,880
by six inch wet footprint right in.

1496
01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:10,119
Speaker 4: His tire track.

1497
01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:15,319
Speaker 3: And we hadn't seen it there before and it was wet. Wow,

1498
01:25:16,960 --> 01:25:20,399
it was not it was not a big indentation, nothing

1499
01:25:20,439 --> 01:25:25,640
you could could cast. It was just a wet footprint,

1500
01:25:25,640 --> 01:25:29,079
which made us think it was, you know, relatively recent.

1501
01:25:29,479 --> 01:25:34,199
And then we started searching around that area and that

1502
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:41,199
footprint basically was right next to another tree break that

1503
01:25:41,359 --> 01:25:44,319
was about nine and a half feet off the ground. So,

1504
01:25:44,960 --> 01:25:47,960
you know, if you believe in tree breaks as being markers,

1505
01:25:49,159 --> 01:25:53,600
then this is potentially an area where whatever it was

1506
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:55,960
was used to crossing that little road that went into

1507
01:25:56,000 --> 01:25:59,880
the meadow. You know, if not it was coincidental. But

1508
01:26:00,079 --> 01:26:04,239
now we've found two tree breaks in within about one

1509
01:26:04,319 --> 01:26:08,600
hundred and fifty yards, both of which seemed to mark

1510
01:26:08,800 --> 01:26:13,560
a trail or at least a place where something had

1511
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:15,760
come out of the woods and crossed the road.

1512
01:26:16,239 --> 01:26:19,439
Speaker 1: The tree was alive, No, that that tree break. The

1513
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:24,359
tree was alive. Wow. And so that the tree, you know,

1514
01:26:24,399 --> 01:26:27,079
the upper leaves and the break were turning yellow. They

1515
01:26:27,119 --> 01:26:30,319
weren't like being dead for very long. But the branches

1516
01:26:30,359 --> 01:26:32,279
below it, below the break, were still green.

1517
01:26:32,960 --> 01:26:36,840
Speaker 2: And you guys didn't notice the tree break prior to that, No, we.

1518
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:37,479
Speaker 1: Hadn't seen that.

1519
01:26:38,039 --> 01:26:40,119
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean it wasn't.

1520
01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:42,479
Speaker 1: There, right, It was right that it was right by

1521
01:26:42,479 --> 01:26:44,840
that foot you know, way that track was.

1522
01:26:45,560 --> 01:26:48,800
Speaker 2: And was the track where was the track in relation

1523
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:49,520
to the creek.

1524
01:26:51,319 --> 01:26:54,760
Speaker 1: It was in the same area where we had heard

1525
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:55,560
that pack go.

1526
01:26:55,640 --> 01:26:59,760
Speaker 5: Through, so maybe one hundred feet.

1527
01:26:59,479 --> 01:27:00,199
Speaker 3: From the creek.

1528
01:27:00,720 --> 01:27:04,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably in the direction in the direction of the

1529
01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:06,960
road and then off to the main road towards the

1530
01:27:07,000 --> 01:27:09,199
main road. It was the same area where we had

1531
01:27:09,239 --> 01:27:12,640
heard that pack go through there. And the interesting was

1532
01:27:12,760 --> 01:27:16,279
is like, why is there only one track. There had

1533
01:27:16,279 --> 01:27:20,439
to be a huge, you know, stride in order to

1534
01:27:20,479 --> 01:27:24,239
get from across the road to that one area. It

1535
01:27:24,319 --> 01:27:26,119
just looked like a wet track. I think I sent

1536
01:27:26,159 --> 01:27:29,119
a picture of it and put my foot by it

1537
01:27:29,239 --> 01:27:33,760
to see how big it was. But it had to

1538
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:36,399
be a huge stride to get across just by one step.

1539
01:27:37,319 --> 01:27:41,800
Speaker 2: Were the vocalizations each night, starting around the same time

1540
01:27:41,880 --> 01:27:43,680
and coming from the same general area.

1541
01:27:45,640 --> 01:27:48,760
Speaker 3: So the first night they started around midnight, and yet

1542
01:27:48,800 --> 01:27:51,720
they were coming from the same area that we had

1543
01:27:51,760 --> 01:27:55,560
heard that original hooting when I started up my airpump,

1544
01:27:56,439 --> 01:28:01,279
maybe across the creek maybe, you know, sounds are sometimes

1545
01:28:01,319 --> 01:28:04,640
hard to estimate distance, but I would say about a

1546
01:28:04,720 --> 01:28:09,960
quarter mile away. Then that first midnight and one o'clock

1547
01:28:10,039 --> 01:28:13,079
when I heard them before I fell asleep, they seemed

1548
01:28:13,079 --> 01:28:15,359
to come from the same area, but again we're answered

1549
01:28:15,359 --> 01:28:19,479
by something else to the north and the east. And

1550
01:28:19,520 --> 01:28:23,960
then that night when the hoops started about eleven thirty,

1551
01:28:24,439 --> 01:28:29,319
that first hoot was in that same direction. And you know,

1552
01:28:29,359 --> 01:28:31,560
one of the days, while we had nothing else to do,

1553
01:28:31,680 --> 01:28:34,560
we went off over that side of the creek and

1554
01:28:35,239 --> 01:28:38,680
we could not find a trail, and we were basically

1555
01:28:38,760 --> 01:28:43,239
bushwhacking it, and you know, I had my garment on

1556
01:28:44,039 --> 01:28:47,479
just we make sure we get back to camp. And yeah,

1557
01:28:47,520 --> 01:28:49,960
we were going slow and looking for things. But we

1558
01:28:50,039 --> 01:28:52,479
went a total of three quarters of a mile out

1559
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:54,600
three quarters a mile back, and it took us over

1560
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:59,239
two hours to travel across the creek, bushwhacking it over

1561
01:28:59,359 --> 01:29:04,680
deadfall and all these other things. And so that's the

1562
01:29:04,680 --> 01:29:06,640
only thing we could find up there. And then on

1563
01:29:06,760 --> 01:29:09,920
a map there are no trails up on that side

1564
01:29:09,960 --> 01:29:12,800
of the creek whatsoever. It's just as best we could

1565
01:29:12,800 --> 01:29:14,079
tell wilderness.

1566
01:29:14,399 --> 01:29:18,279
Speaker 2: Wow, my brain has just raised. I wonder if that's

1567
01:29:18,399 --> 01:29:22,960
just like a maybe a travel route that they're taking

1568
01:29:23,000 --> 01:29:24,840
that just happens to go through that meadow.

1569
01:29:25,960 --> 01:29:32,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has to be something, you know that's that

1570
01:29:32,479 --> 01:29:33,760
X has anything to do with it.

1571
01:29:35,119 --> 01:29:38,880
Speaker 3: As I said, Will Fulmer has a video specifically on

1572
01:29:39,439 --> 01:29:43,640
Campsite seventeen where he's had a lot of activity, and

1573
01:29:43,720 --> 01:29:49,960
that is probably a mile from Gypsy Meadows maybe, so

1574
01:29:50,279 --> 01:29:53,039
he's had a lot of activity right in the exact

1575
01:29:53,079 --> 01:29:58,920
same area. So you know, maybe it is a a

1576
01:29:58,920 --> 01:30:00,279
a roadway for him.

1577
01:30:00,359 --> 01:30:03,560
Speaker 2: Said to speak, Have you reached out to will about this?

1578
01:30:04,199 --> 01:30:06,199
Speaker 3: So I did send him a message on one of

1579
01:30:06,239 --> 01:30:10,520
his videos and I emailed him, and that was probably

1580
01:30:10,520 --> 01:30:13,680
three weeks ago. On his video. He kind of gave

1581
01:30:13,760 --> 01:30:19,600
my my comment a like, and in my email I

1582
01:30:19,640 --> 01:30:23,520
sent him basically what I had sent you are two

1583
01:30:23,920 --> 01:30:28,119
Facebook posts that kind of listed everything, and he has

1584
01:30:28,159 --> 01:30:32,399
not responded back to me, so I don't I have

1585
01:30:32,520 --> 01:30:36,319
not been in touch with him, but basically he's kind

1586
01:30:36,319 --> 01:30:38,840
of the reason we went to this area, just seeing

1587
01:30:38,880 --> 01:30:43,239
his videos online and we've had, you know, some similar experiences.

1588
01:30:43,840 --> 01:30:49,399
But as you may or may not remember, we weren't

1589
01:30:49,760 --> 01:30:55,720
quite done amazing. As amazing as it sounds, we weren't

1590
01:30:55,760 --> 01:31:02,079
done so that that day that he you know, we'd

1591
01:31:02,079 --> 01:31:05,399
seen the we'd heard the hoots the night before, seen

1592
01:31:05,439 --> 01:31:11,520
the wet footprint. Right around dinner time, we heard that hooting,

1593
01:31:12,199 --> 01:31:15,319
but this time it started behind us up the ridge,

1594
01:31:15,880 --> 01:31:18,359
not across the ridge, and all kind of let David

1595
01:31:18,399 --> 01:31:21,399
take over as to what happened after that.

1596
01:31:22,039 --> 01:31:26,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were well, we were just relaxing in our hammocks,

1597
01:31:26,359 --> 01:31:29,279
you know, and all of a sudden, you know, as

1598
01:31:29,279 --> 01:31:32,079
the days had gone along, we start wondering, are these

1599
01:31:32,079 --> 01:31:34,920
hoots big foot? You know, because of everything that's been

1600
01:31:34,920 --> 01:31:36,960
going on all of a sudden, we hear this thing

1601
01:31:37,000 --> 01:31:39,920
and it was we heard just loud hoo going on,

1602
01:31:40,199 --> 01:31:43,960
just like I would estimate, only thirty yards up on

1603
01:31:44,039 --> 01:31:47,000
the ridge behind our camp, which is you think, is

1604
01:31:47,000 --> 01:31:49,119
that close, Curtis, Yeah.

1605
01:31:48,960 --> 01:31:51,560
Speaker 3: It was. It was closer than you know, it had

1606
01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:55,359
been from across across the creek by by far.

1607
01:31:56,439 --> 01:31:58,760
Speaker 1: So as soon we heard that we were in our hammocks,

1608
01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:02,039
we both we jumped out of Miami, let's go, and

1609
01:32:02,119 --> 01:32:04,840
we grabbed our guns, grabbed our gear, and we started

1610
01:32:04,840 --> 01:32:10,239
heading up that ridge in it. The call was coming

1611
01:32:10,279 --> 01:32:12,520
a little bit from where we're looking at towards our camp,

1612
01:32:12,560 --> 01:32:14,359
towards the main road. It was a little left to

1613
01:32:14,359 --> 01:32:17,600
where the X was. But we started going up this

1614
01:32:17,800 --> 01:32:22,840
ridge and you know, I grabbed my camera, my video

1615
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:25,560
camera had it on. I'm saying, I was thinking, we

1616
01:32:25,600 --> 01:32:27,880
are close to something. We're going to see something right here.

1617
01:32:28,560 --> 01:32:32,000
And we started hiking up. We've gone up. We'd seen

1618
01:32:32,039 --> 01:32:36,880
some you know, deep inset footprints probably sixteen inches but

1619
01:32:36,920 --> 01:32:40,479
they're about four inches deep on this ridge that we

1620
01:32:40,479 --> 01:32:43,520
were going up there. And as we're going along, all

1621
01:32:43,560 --> 01:32:49,119
of a sudden, you know, we hear these three whoops.

1622
01:32:49,159 --> 01:32:53,239
It's like definite woo woo, you know, in a different direction.

1623
01:32:53,840 --> 01:32:57,119
And I turned to Curtis and said, I'm not getting distracted.

1624
01:32:57,800 --> 01:33:00,199
I'm not getting pulled away in a different direction. We're

1625
01:33:00,199 --> 01:33:03,279
going this direction, and but this is where we heard

1626
01:33:03,319 --> 01:33:05,079
where we were, but we felt like we were being

1627
01:33:05,119 --> 01:33:07,880
pulled in a different direction, you know, like something was

1628
01:33:07,920 --> 01:33:09,960
trying to distract us and pull us in a different thing.

1629
01:33:10,760 --> 01:33:15,199
And we kept going. We didn't We eventually didn't. We

1630
01:33:15,239 --> 01:33:18,600
didn't see anything that time. We were going really slow,

1631
01:33:18,760 --> 01:33:21,199
trying to you know, look in the area and film it.

1632
01:33:21,560 --> 01:33:26,159
And then my video camera battery started going going out,

1633
01:33:26,359 --> 01:33:29,439
and it was getting started getting dark, and we decided

1634
01:33:29,439 --> 01:33:34,279
to head back. We had got we'd gotten. We heard

1635
01:33:34,279 --> 01:33:36,399
the three loops were coming more from where we had

1636
01:33:36,399 --> 01:33:39,359
seen the X, you know, in that direction. But I

1637
01:33:39,399 --> 01:33:41,479
thought the wops were on the other side of the road,

1638
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:44,000
you know that from where they do were.

1639
01:33:44,119 --> 01:33:48,960
Speaker 3: And before we turned back, David may you probably remember

1640
01:33:49,000 --> 01:33:51,800
these trying to say the direction we were heading, we

1641
01:33:51,960 --> 01:33:55,560
found another tree structure that I can only describe as

1642
01:33:55,600 --> 01:33:56,560
a teepee.

1643
01:33:56,880 --> 01:34:01,600
Speaker 4: Probably four or five twenty.

1644
01:34:01,279 --> 01:34:04,760
Speaker 3: Foot long sticks, branches, whatever you want to call them,

1645
01:34:05,800 --> 01:34:09,640
all coming together at their tips, just like a teepee

1646
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:12,760
wood that you'd see in the movie, and that was

1647
01:34:12,800 --> 01:34:15,720
the direction that we'd heard the first call. And when

1648
01:34:15,720 --> 01:34:18,199
we saw that, and like David said, we now hear

1649
01:34:18,279 --> 01:34:22,079
the roofs, we decided to keep going towards the teepee

1650
01:34:22,079 --> 01:34:25,039
because we had seen that and we didn't. We sort

1651
01:34:25,039 --> 01:34:27,680
of made a pact on our drive up. You know,

1652
01:34:27,760 --> 01:34:31,119
we've seen people describe that they heard something, they'd go

1653
01:34:31,239 --> 01:34:33,880
one way and then they might hear a tree break

1654
01:34:34,000 --> 01:34:38,119
in another direction, like they were being distracted. So we

1655
01:34:38,159 --> 01:34:40,399
had made a sort of a pact that if we

1656
01:34:40,479 --> 01:34:43,239
hear something like that, and of course we never expected

1657
01:34:43,239 --> 01:34:48,319
to hear a distracting call, we would keep going. But

1658
01:34:48,399 --> 01:34:51,319
like David said, we didn't really find anything and went

1659
01:34:51,359 --> 01:34:53,680
back to our camp. Now is pretty much dark, and

1660
01:34:54,079 --> 01:34:57,960
you know, that night was pretty quiet. The next morning

1661
01:34:58,520 --> 01:35:02,920
we got up about oh seven point thirty or so,

1662
01:35:03,319 --> 01:35:06,479
he supped in and we both decided to walk down

1663
01:35:06,520 --> 01:35:09,079
to the bathroom. And like we said, this whole week,

1664
01:35:09,119 --> 01:35:12,079
there had been a guy in a trailer parked maybe

1665
01:35:12,079 --> 01:35:15,520
one hundred feet past the bathroom, sort of in the

1666
01:35:15,600 --> 01:35:20,920
last camping spots before he turned into the meadow. And

1667
01:35:21,000 --> 01:35:23,159
we had waved at him a few times, said hi

1668
01:35:23,279 --> 01:35:25,359
to him as we drove by or he was walking

1669
01:35:25,399 --> 01:35:27,359
his dog. We said hi, but we'd never really talked

1670
01:35:27,399 --> 01:35:30,640
to him. So David goes off to the bathroom and

1671
01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:33,479
I decided to walk out past his trailer up to

1672
01:35:33,520 --> 01:35:36,880
the main road. And you know, I'd always explored up

1673
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:39,560
the road. I decided, while David's in the bathroom, I'm

1674
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:41,479
going sort of down the road. And I went down

1675
01:35:41,479 --> 01:35:44,439
about one hundred yards. Didn't find any tree brakes or

1676
01:35:44,439 --> 01:35:47,000
any trails, so I kind of cut back into the

1677
01:35:47,479 --> 01:35:50,880
campground there and the rest of the campsites were completely empty.

1678
01:35:51,920 --> 01:35:55,119
And when I walked, I had walked past his trailer.

1679
01:35:56,319 --> 01:35:59,199
Initially he was inside, and now I came back to

1680
01:35:59,359 --> 01:36:05,479
his and he was outside, clearly looking around. And you know,

1681
01:36:05,520 --> 01:36:08,479
this time, instead of saying hi, like we'd said four

1682
01:36:08,560 --> 01:36:11,600
or five times before, his first words out of his

1683
01:36:11,680 --> 01:36:14,640
mouth were, hey, is your Is your buddy dressed all

1684
01:36:14,680 --> 01:36:18,800
in tan from head to toe? And I said no,

1685
01:36:19,760 --> 01:36:22,560
First of all, I think he's in blue. I was

1686
01:36:22,560 --> 01:36:24,960
trying to remember what David was wearing. I said, second

1687
01:36:24,960 --> 01:36:26,279
of all, black.

1688
01:36:26,079 --> 01:36:29,680
Speaker 1: Pants and my you know.

1689
01:36:29,960 --> 01:36:32,680
Speaker 3: I said, second of all, he's still in the bathroom,

1690
01:36:33,119 --> 01:36:35,319
and he said, well, I kind of saw you walk

1691
01:36:35,439 --> 01:36:38,359
up to the to the road out of one of

1692
01:36:38,399 --> 01:36:41,960
my windows, and I sat down, and about ten seconds

1693
01:36:42,000 --> 01:36:44,479
after I sat down, my dog is just at the door,

1694
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:47,319
scratching and barking. So I get up, thinking that one

1695
01:36:47,359 --> 01:36:51,680
of you guys had kind of come into my campsite.

1696
01:36:51,720 --> 01:36:54,239
Which you know, like you said before, who's going to

1697
01:36:54,279 --> 01:36:55,880
throw pine cones? Who's going to walk.

1698
01:36:55,760 --> 01:37:00,159
Speaker 4: Into some guy's campsite uninvited? Yeah, that's Steven in the morning,

1699
01:37:00,520 --> 01:37:00,760
you know.

1700
01:37:01,359 --> 01:37:03,279
Speaker 3: So he said, I figured one of you guys were

1701
01:37:03,279 --> 01:37:07,199
in my campsite, and I said, no, I'm you know,

1702
01:37:07,239 --> 01:37:09,039
just coming back from my walk down the road.

1703
01:37:09,079 --> 01:37:11,560
Speaker 4: He said, well, when my dog was barking, I got

1704
01:37:11,640 --> 01:37:13,199
up and looked out the window.

1705
01:37:12,880 --> 01:37:16,439
Speaker 3: And something big and tan I just barely sought for

1706
01:37:16,520 --> 01:37:21,319
a second, walked from the creek area to across the road.

1707
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:26,079
And again, you know, as I said before, where a

1708
01:37:26,279 --> 01:37:31,439
road hadn't been scraped or a campsite made, the forest

1709
01:37:31,520 --> 01:37:33,840
was very thick and you could just you know, when

1710
01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:36,960
you look into something, all you see is trees. And

1711
01:37:37,079 --> 01:37:40,640
he was only one hundred feet from the bathroom, and

1712
01:37:40,720 --> 01:37:43,359
when he stood at the bathroom. You couldn't see his trailer,

1713
01:37:43,840 --> 01:37:47,439
so what he had seen for a brief second was

1714
01:37:47,640 --> 01:37:52,479
tall and big, and David's six floor and two hundred

1715
01:37:52,479 --> 01:37:54,520
and fifty pounds. That's why he thought it was David

1716
01:37:55,279 --> 01:37:57,720
and I had walked from the creek area to across

1717
01:37:57,760 --> 01:38:01,720
the road. So David gets out of the bathroom and

1718
01:38:01,720 --> 01:38:05,039
we start looking around, and of course we find nothing,

1719
01:38:06,399 --> 01:38:08,720
and then we start we start talking to the guy

1720
01:38:08,880 --> 01:38:11,439
and asking him what he had heard the last few days,

1721
01:38:11,479 --> 01:38:16,840
and he was a second confirmation of David hearing all

1722
01:38:16,960 --> 01:38:21,600
that ruckus at the edge of the edge of the meadow,

1723
01:38:21,680 --> 01:38:25,439
even though he was a little further away than the

1724
01:38:25,720 --> 01:38:28,840
other campers, where he heard the same stuff happening in

1725
01:38:28,880 --> 01:38:31,119
the middle of the night, you know, some motion in

1726
01:38:31,159 --> 01:38:34,920
the woods, calls and stuff like that. And then he said,

1727
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:37,199
you know, I've heard some weird things while i've been here.

1728
01:38:37,239 --> 01:38:40,159
I've heard knocks. I heard a tree get knocked over

1729
01:38:40,960 --> 01:38:44,920
off in in that wilderness area across the creek. And

1730
01:38:44,920 --> 01:38:48,359
he said, I think I just saw bigfoot. You know,

1731
01:38:48,760 --> 01:38:50,159
that's literally what he said.

1732
01:38:50,840 --> 01:38:53,840
Speaker 4: And I don't know how to dispute what he saw.

1733
01:38:54,079 --> 01:38:57,159
Speaker 3: We didn't see it. But there was no one else

1734
01:38:57,279 --> 01:38:59,680
in any of the other campgrounds. And again this is

1735
01:39:00,199 --> 01:39:05,399
o'clock in the morning, you know, coming from the wilderness

1736
01:39:05,439 --> 01:39:09,119
across the creek and walking up to the road to

1737
01:39:09,199 --> 01:39:12,239
that other area up the ridge where we had seen

1738
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:17,560
a broken tree before. So you know, we didn't see

1739
01:39:17,560 --> 01:39:21,079
anything again but this guy. And when we were not

1740
01:39:21,199 --> 01:39:23,520
trying to talk him into bigfoot, he kind of came

1741
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:27,239
to that conclusion himself that he thinks, for a second

1742
01:39:27,359 --> 01:39:29,479
or two he might have seen a big foot because

1743
01:39:29,479 --> 01:39:31,920
it was ten he said, from head to toe.

1744
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:35,960
Speaker 2: I mean, what else could it have been? You know, Yeah,

1745
01:39:36,960 --> 01:39:39,119
he knew what he saw. That's why he was hoping

1746
01:39:39,720 --> 01:39:41,920
that you'd be like, oh, yeah, my friend's out here

1747
01:39:41,920 --> 01:39:43,680
wearing a hooded sweatsuit.

1748
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:47,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, a tan jumpsuit from the head to.

1749
01:39:49,560 --> 01:39:52,640
Speaker 3: So that, you know, we were kind of getting ready

1750
01:39:52,680 --> 01:39:57,359
to leave the next day, and that late afternoon David

1751
01:39:57,520 --> 01:40:00,119
kind of had a thought remembering back to what we

1752
01:40:00,159 --> 01:40:03,319
had found in California. And I'll kind of let him

1753
01:40:03,680 --> 01:40:06,319
say what he was thinking and what we eventually found

1754
01:40:06,399 --> 01:40:06,800
up there.

1755
01:40:07,880 --> 01:40:12,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, that day before when we had chased that

1756
01:40:12,239 --> 01:40:15,520
that the thing I'm coming back. I had noticed a

1757
01:40:15,560 --> 01:40:19,079
wet area, a marsh area off to the right boards

1758
01:40:19,079 --> 01:40:22,920
of direction where we've seen the X, and I had

1759
01:40:22,960 --> 01:40:26,680
just noted it in my head. And last day I

1760
01:40:26,720 --> 01:40:29,960
told Curtis, say, hey, I want to go up and

1761
01:40:30,000 --> 01:40:34,239
explore that marsh area again, just another track trap and

1762
01:40:34,239 --> 01:40:37,119
see what we can find. And so I didn't want

1763
01:40:37,119 --> 01:40:39,960
to leave without doing that. And so we go. We

1764
01:40:40,119 --> 01:40:43,359
go walking up there. We come into the marsh and

1765
01:40:43,920 --> 01:40:46,159
know and behold, I walked, I take it, come around

1766
01:40:46,199 --> 01:40:49,079
a corner and I see these two footprints right in

1767
01:40:49,079 --> 01:40:52,720
the mud. And I go, look at that. And we

1768
01:40:52,800 --> 01:40:55,760
go over there and actually this time we had measuring

1769
01:40:55,840 --> 01:40:57,760
tapes and things like that. I got to stick and

1770
01:40:57,800 --> 01:41:00,399
mark them and measure them. When we got back where

1771
01:41:01,239 --> 01:41:05,479
you know, our truck. But we found two footprints again.

1772
01:41:05,760 --> 01:41:08,880
I measured them sixteen and a half inches long, and

1773
01:41:10,119 --> 01:41:15,760
the stride was forty eight inches a stride with the

1774
01:41:15,960 --> 01:41:18,199
you know, the step step link of forty eight inches

1775
01:41:18,239 --> 01:41:21,239
to fifty two inches. And we started looking back behind

1776
01:41:21,279 --> 01:41:24,000
it in line, and we noticed in the wet wet

1777
01:41:24,039 --> 01:41:28,079
area where of that mars, we could see definite foot

1778
01:41:28,399 --> 01:41:35,560
step disturbances, you know, because there's like you know, the

1779
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:37,319
the needles of the tree all fall in the water

1780
01:41:37,399 --> 01:41:39,239
and they're all, you know, the whole place, all the

1781
01:41:39,239 --> 01:41:41,199
water is covered with these needles except for where these

1782
01:41:41,239 --> 01:41:44,840
footprints landed, and it's all disturbed and cleared up, and

1783
01:41:44,880 --> 01:41:46,920
you could see that. And they're all about the same

1784
01:41:47,000 --> 01:41:48,840
stride length and going out, and I said, look at that,

1785
01:41:48,920 --> 01:41:51,039
there's one there, and we go back the same distance,

1786
01:41:51,039 --> 01:41:53,800
there's another one. So you start, you know, when you

1787
01:41:53,880 --> 01:41:56,359
start looking for the next track, you want to look

1788
01:41:56,399 --> 01:41:59,359
at the same distance and see where you're you know,

1789
01:41:59,439 --> 01:42:01,600
that's where you're start looking for evidence and stuff. And

1790
01:42:01,640 --> 01:42:03,880
we backed up, we about five different steps so we

1791
01:42:03,880 --> 01:42:08,640
could identify disturbances in that wet you know, water area.

1792
01:42:09,079 --> 01:42:12,840
Then it comes into the mud where left that you know,

1793
01:42:13,000 --> 01:42:15,479
first footprint we saw that we could see toes on

1794
01:42:15,600 --> 01:42:19,600
and then the second one was forty eight to fifty two.

1795
01:42:20,359 --> 01:42:22,520
And then we started walking further back in that same

1796
01:42:22,600 --> 01:42:26,960
line and we found another one in another smaller wet area,

1797
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:31,119
going up a little incline that looked like we measured

1798
01:42:31,159 --> 01:42:34,600
it again. It was sixteen and a half inches long.

1799
01:42:35,279 --> 01:42:38,560
And that one we could definitely see toes in the

1800
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:41,720
ferns and things like that. So that was an exciting

1801
01:42:41,720 --> 01:42:46,439
way to enter. You know, in our search at that Dame,

1802
01:42:46,520 --> 01:42:48,319
we took pictures of all that and stuff, so that

1803
01:42:48,399 --> 01:42:49,199
was kind of exciting.

1804
01:42:49,560 --> 01:42:53,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the interesting thing that one that was about

1805
01:42:53,560 --> 01:42:56,479
one hundred feet behind was in the exact line of

1806
01:42:57,760 --> 01:43:03,159
a progression of those other four And although they were

1807
01:43:03,279 --> 01:43:06,600
wet and we couldn't cast them, there was definitely a

1808
01:43:06,720 --> 01:43:10,119
print that you could see toes and you know, it

1809
01:43:10,279 --> 01:43:13,840
was sixteen and a half inches long. As David said,

1810
01:43:13,880 --> 01:43:16,680
we both wear size thirteen. I've measured my foot it's

1811
01:43:17,239 --> 01:43:20,239
eleven and a half inches, just about or just above

1812
01:43:20,279 --> 01:43:24,079
eleven and a half inches. Even with my shoe it's

1813
01:43:24,159 --> 01:43:28,039
only thirteen thirteen and a half inches. And so you know,

1814
01:43:28,560 --> 01:43:31,039
we like to we've been pretty lucky on our trips.

1815
01:43:31,039 --> 01:43:33,319
But we've gone into all these trips, like I said,

1816
01:43:34,319 --> 01:43:38,800
at least trying to rule out the possibility that these

1817
01:43:38,840 --> 01:43:42,920
could all be human events. And that's sort of what

1818
01:43:43,159 --> 01:43:46,640
science is all based on. They call it the null hypothesis.

1819
01:43:46,680 --> 01:43:50,520
You know, you try to rule out that it could

1820
01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:54,039
have happened randomly. Well, in this case, it's not a

1821
01:43:54,079 --> 01:43:56,680
science experiment, but we tried to rule out whether they

1822
01:43:56,680 --> 01:43:59,119
could or could not have been human. So when we

1823
01:43:59,199 --> 01:44:03,560
got back civilization, I kind of looked up, you know what,

1824
01:44:03,560 --> 01:44:06,159
what is a sixteen and a half footprint or sixte

1825
01:44:06,199 --> 01:44:10,920
and a half inch footprint, And that's basically Shaquille o'nill's foot.

1826
01:44:11,199 --> 01:44:15,039
His foot is sixteen and a half inches and he

1827
01:44:15,119 --> 01:44:20,279
wears a size twenty two shoe. And I then start looking.

1828
01:44:20,840 --> 01:44:23,199
Speaker 4: You know, now I'm going down a rabbit hole.

1829
01:44:23,079 --> 01:44:25,920
Speaker 3: Is trying to figure out how cammon this would be,

1830
01:44:26,920 --> 01:44:30,119
you know, barefoot, barefoot guy seven foot tall walking in

1831
01:44:30,159 --> 01:44:32,800
the middle of the forest. Well, I find out that,

1832
01:44:33,039 --> 01:44:36,359
you know, to be seven foot tall or above, it's

1833
01:44:36,399 --> 01:44:40,039
only one person in two hundred and sixty thousand people.

1834
01:44:41,000 --> 01:44:44,960
You know, it's very very rare. And then I said, well,

1835
01:44:45,199 --> 01:44:50,079
you know how many people have world class speed? You know,

1836
01:44:50,199 --> 01:44:53,399
to travel one hundred and fifty yards in fifteen seconds.

1837
01:44:53,600 --> 01:44:55,560
And that's not even on the flat that's in the

1838
01:44:55,640 --> 01:45:00,199
dark across you know, basically bushwacking and across the land,

1839
01:45:01,199 --> 01:45:04,880
but even on a flat track. I googled you know

1840
01:45:04,920 --> 01:45:08,199
how many people have world class speed? And Google couldn't

1841
01:45:08,239 --> 01:45:11,039
answer it, but it said it is by far much

1842
01:45:11,119 --> 01:45:15,319
less than one percent. So you know, if you take

1843
01:45:15,359 --> 01:45:18,119
the one in two hundred and sixty thousand and say

1844
01:45:18,159 --> 01:45:21,600
it's maybe a half percent chance that a person could

1845
01:45:21,880 --> 01:45:23,239
run in world class speed.

1846
01:45:23,560 --> 01:45:27,279
Speaker 4: Now you're talking one in five million chants.

1847
01:45:27,239 --> 01:45:31,239
Speaker 3: That you know, a seven foot tall person could run

1848
01:45:31,319 --> 01:45:34,720
a world class speed. And then you start thinking, like

1849
01:45:34,760 --> 01:45:38,880
I said, in the dark, no flashlight, in forty degree weather,

1850
01:45:39,000 --> 01:45:45,239
in a light rain, barefoot across you know, across terrain.

1851
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:48,319
Speaker 1: That's just impossible.

1852
01:45:47,439 --> 01:45:53,000
Speaker 3: For a human. When we as scientists in medicine, when

1853
01:45:53,039 --> 01:45:56,119
we look at two forms of treatment and try to

1854
01:45:56,119 --> 01:45:59,960
figure out which one is better for a certain disease

1855
01:46:00,000 --> 01:46:04,239
these or a certain entity, they study patients and they

1856
01:46:04,319 --> 01:46:06,239
put them in one group, and they study maybe a

1857
01:46:06,239 --> 01:46:09,359
different medicine and a different group. If there is less

1858
01:46:09,399 --> 01:46:12,159
than a five percent chance that that could have happened

1859
01:46:12,239 --> 01:46:19,439
randomly in science, that is considered statistically significant. In other words,

1860
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:22,880
there's a ninety five percent chance that that did not

1861
01:46:23,000 --> 01:46:27,000
occur randomly. You change your medical treatment just based on

1862
01:46:27,039 --> 01:46:29,840
a on a five percent chance. And here we have

1863
01:46:30,520 --> 01:46:33,720
odds that even there was a person in the middle

1864
01:46:33,720 --> 01:46:37,800
of the forest at much much less than one in

1865
01:46:37,960 --> 01:46:41,079
five million. So then I start going to like I said,

1866
01:46:41,159 --> 01:46:44,760
going down the rabbit hole, knowing that in orthopedics we

1867
01:46:44,800 --> 01:46:48,600
have data analysis studies, and I start looking at stride

1868
01:46:48,720 --> 01:46:52,199
length or step lean and even at Shaquille O'Neill's height

1869
01:46:52,840 --> 01:46:56,079
is average walking, you know, from one heel of the

1870
01:46:56,159 --> 01:46:59,279
right foot to the left heel, the middle of the

1871
01:46:59,399 --> 01:47:03,039
left foot in one normal step is just under thirty

1872
01:47:03,119 --> 01:47:05,960
six inches. So then I.

1873
01:47:06,000 --> 01:47:08,880
Speaker 4: Then and extrapolate from that.

1874
01:47:08,760 --> 01:47:13,520
Speaker 3: Well, what does a forty eight inch stride or step

1875
01:47:13,640 --> 01:47:17,079
length mean? And if you use that same equation and

1876
01:47:17,119 --> 01:47:20,479
go backwards, that means if it was a human, they

1877
01:47:20,479 --> 01:47:25,000
were nine feet six inches tall if it was a human.

1878
01:47:25,640 --> 01:47:28,119
So then I started looking up, are there even you know,

1879
01:47:28,119 --> 01:47:30,359
what's who's the tallest human in the world? And the

1880
01:47:30,800 --> 01:47:35,720
tallest person known in recorded time was eighteen eleven inches

1881
01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:40,039
and he died in nineteen forty And the current tallest

1882
01:47:40,039 --> 01:47:44,399
person alive lives in Turkey and he's eight foot three inches.

1883
01:47:45,279 --> 01:47:49,880
So you know, to have something with a stride length

1884
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:56,600
that equals nine eat six inches in height doing all

1885
01:47:56,680 --> 01:48:01,079
that stuff that we just described as signed is even

1886
01:48:01,119 --> 01:48:06,079
though we haven't seen Bigfoot and we haven't taken a

1887
01:48:06,079 --> 01:48:09,000
picture of Bigfoot, I think David and I are now,

1888
01:48:09,239 --> 01:48:12,279
even though I was skeptical before our California trip, I

1889
01:48:12,319 --> 01:48:16,199
think we're in the camp that Bigfoot was there, both

1890
01:48:16,239 --> 01:48:20,199
in California and Washington. It's just that, you know, there's

1891
01:48:20,239 --> 01:48:23,000
still the hide and Seek champions of the world and

1892
01:48:23,159 --> 01:48:28,159
haven't completely been found. We have no other conclusion. I mean,

1893
01:48:28,479 --> 01:48:33,760
the science, you know, just points to that there's no

1894
01:48:33,840 --> 01:48:35,640
other no other thing that could have.

1895
01:48:35,720 --> 01:48:39,239
Speaker 4: Done all the things that.

1896
01:48:38,079 --> 01:48:44,119
Speaker 3: That we experienced, even though we did not see a bigfoot.

1897
01:48:45,039 --> 01:48:48,640
Speaker 2: I think you would also be fairly safe to say,

1898
01:48:48,880 --> 01:48:54,760
I mean, even with your statistics, whenever a human reaches

1899
01:48:54,800 --> 01:49:01,439
a certain height threshold, their athletic ability actually starts to decline.

1900
01:49:02,079 --> 01:49:05,079
I mean, I can't imagine, you know that the guy

1901
01:49:05,119 --> 01:49:07,199
that you were talking about, who is the world's tallest

1902
01:49:07,239 --> 01:49:09,840
man that passed away in the forties or whatever, he

1903
01:49:09,880 --> 01:49:12,479
definitely was not running, let alone at world class speed.

1904
01:49:12,960 --> 01:49:15,920
He was barely able to walk, you know, So.

1905
01:49:17,600 --> 01:49:20,800
Speaker 3: There's no doubt. And that's that's often why you know,

1906
01:49:20,880 --> 01:49:26,960
those tall guys often have very short NBA careers. I mean,

1907
01:49:27,000 --> 01:49:31,279
Bill Walton started having bad foot problems he was six

1908
01:49:31,359 --> 01:49:35,199
or eleven, and he was a great center for like

1909
01:49:35,279 --> 01:49:38,960
his first three years playing in the NBA, and then

1910
01:49:39,000 --> 01:49:42,880
he was a decent, you know, off the bench player

1911
01:49:42,960 --> 01:49:46,399
for eight or nine years, but his feet gave out.

1912
01:49:46,479 --> 01:49:49,319
He was not the same athlete after you know, two

1913
01:49:49,439 --> 01:49:52,119
or three years of pounding in the NBA at the

1914
01:49:52,199 --> 01:49:55,159
end of his career than he was at the beginning.

1915
01:49:56,279 --> 01:49:59,520
So you're right. I don't see if it was a

1916
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:02,680
human that they could run one hundred and fifty yards

1917
01:50:02,720 --> 01:50:04,399
in world class speed.

1918
01:50:05,039 --> 01:50:09,039
Speaker 2: That's just crazy. You guys really hit the jackpot. Do

1919
01:50:09,079 --> 01:50:11,159
you do you have any plans of going back to

1920
01:50:11,159 --> 01:50:11,800
that location?

1921
01:50:12,520 --> 01:50:15,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we. Uh, we got asked to come

1922
01:50:15,319 --> 01:50:18,399
up in video, do a video recording and tell our

1923
01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:20,840
story in the spring, So I think we're playing them

1924
01:50:20,840 --> 01:50:23,520
going up there in the spring. And you know that

1925
01:50:23,920 --> 01:50:27,439
was Jonathan Jonathan jonathans us to come up and do that.

1926
01:50:27,840 --> 01:50:31,079
Speaker 2: Okay, well, yeah, I look forward to that. Any plans

1927
01:50:31,119 --> 01:50:35,279
to go on any more outings at different locations, Yeah,

1928
01:50:35,319 --> 01:50:35,640
we are.

1929
01:50:36,760 --> 01:50:37,479
Speaker 1: I think we're hooked.

1930
01:50:39,000 --> 01:50:42,079
Speaker 3: Nothing nothing in the book, nothing in the books, but

1931
01:50:42,119 --> 01:50:47,960
we're you know, I can't imagine they will be as

1932
01:50:48,000 --> 01:50:53,880
good or exciting of an experience of our first two trips.

1933
01:50:54,039 --> 01:50:56,039
But even if they're not, Like I said, we kind

1934
01:50:56,039 --> 01:50:59,479
of went into this just go camping with our best friend,

1935
01:50:59,560 --> 01:51:05,239
and I think in a way we were lucky and

1936
01:51:05,920 --> 01:51:08,279
blasted to have found what we found.

1937
01:51:09,359 --> 01:51:12,439
Speaker 2: Well, guys, I appreciate you coming on here and sharing

1938
01:51:12,479 --> 01:51:16,800
your experiences and your stories and uh yeah, if you

1939
01:51:17,000 --> 01:51:19,880
have any more, please feel free to reach out to me.

1940
01:51:19,920 --> 01:51:25,439
I'd love to hear about it. Oh yeah, absolutely. If

1941
01:51:25,439 --> 01:51:28,119
you've had an encounter with Bigfoot or something else un explaining,

1942
01:51:28,199 --> 01:51:31,239
you'd like to share your story on Bigfoot Crossroads, email

1943
01:51:31,279 --> 01:51:33,920
me at Bigfoot Crossroads at gmail dot com. Check out

1944
01:51:33,920 --> 01:51:36,960
the website Bigfootcrossroads dot com. You can find links to

1945
01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:40,680
social media, past episodes, merchandise, everything you need all in

1946
01:51:40,720 --> 01:51:44,680
one place. And until next time, remember there's something in

1947
01:51:44,720 --> 01:52:08,760
the woods.