Speaker 1: So I got woken up about one thirty or two
somewhere in that time, and I started hearing the woops again.
But it was close, and it was it was loud,
and it was moving. That is nuts. It was like
woop woop was going from right to left, from the
creek to the road and up the ridge up there.
Would you say about one hundred and fifty yards curtain, Yeah,
I would say is over fifteen twenty seconds. This thing
was moving from where the creek was where we would
get water. It was like whoop poop, prooper. And then
it started moving right. I thought it was going right
through those guys camp. All of a sudden, I hear
this is garbling that all I can describe it? Right, raw, raw,
Are you know if they sounds like er sounds that
is not wooping? And then they kept going. It's kept
moving and then it got back to woof woop woop,
and and then it just went on up the ridge
and I was waking up. Curs, did you hear that?
You know what the heck was that?
Speaker 2: I'd like to welcome Curtis and David to the show.
I was introduced to these gentlemen via Jonathan Brown of
the famous Brown Property in Washington. He spoke highly of
them and suggested I should get in contact with them
and have them on and boy, am I glad I did,
because Curtis, you know, this is the first time I've
talked to David, but you and I talked previously on
the phone, and you guys have had some amazing experiences
in what seems to be a relatively short amount of
time for the big Foot world. Got you started personally
interested in this topic.
Speaker 3: Well, maybe just a quick little background. David and I
have been friends for over fifty years. I'm two years
older than David, but you know, we grew up together.
We went to the same college, and it turns out
we both went to the same medical school. Believe it
or not, we're both physicians, so we like to think
of ourselves obviously as men of science. But after medical
school we sort of drifted apart. He ended up in
Central California and I ended up in Phoenix, Arizona. Obviously,
still friends, kind of friends that even though we might
not see each other for a year or so, when
we do get back together, it's like, you know, no
time had been had we been apart. Now I really
didn't have much of a background or thinking about bigfoots.
All that game that start and tell you about his background.
Speaker 2: If that's okay, Yeah, sure they have a jump on
in Man, what got you started in this crazy subject?
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, we occurious. We were best friends growing up.
But as a kid, I was always interested in Native
American you know history culture that studied it a lot.
I was always the Indian when you played Cowboys and Indians.
Used to make my own moccasins and the you know,
hiking the woods and stuff. But I knew that every
you know Native American culture you know, had some type
of name for bigfoots, squatch, you know, hairy men, you know,
things like that. I knew they had, you know, spiritual
animals just like you know, bear, the coyotes and eagles
and stuff. Getting older, I had seen the Patterson Gimbland film.
I you know, I felt that was real. It seemed
people try to debunk that as they got older and
had kids. My own nephews, you know, my son Cody
and Josh. I took them to Burnside Lake which is
South Lake Tahoe area, and we actually heard some howls there.
I took interest in tracking and you know, things like
that in the in the woods and stuff. Read a
lot of Tom Brown Junior's tracking and nature observation books,
and that got me interested in me at you know,
the outdoors and things like that. Yeah, very good, very
good things I learned from that. So try to pass
that on sometimes my kids and you know, Curtis and
things like that when we're out. But I think all
that made me, you know, at that point, uh, you know,
a probable believer, you know, watch the shows, you know,
find you know, finding you know, Bigfoot and now Expedition
big Foot, things like that. So that's kind of where
I got it.
Speaker 3: And then mine mine wasn't as deeply seated as David.
I I'd seen the Patterson give One film, but I
was more of a skeptic, you know then you know,
whatever you might we might think of finding Bigfoot, it's
something that I watched, and I think the best thing
about finding Bigfoot clearly they never have found Bigfoot in
all their seasons, but it at least sort of brought
it to the consciousness of prime time, you know, exposed
interest to more people. And then on that was kind
of my background. But on David's fiftieth birthday, he had
to get together a weekend at his house and one
night he said to me, hey, find a movie. I'm
gonna go grab a shower, look on my DVR and
see what you find, and when I get out of
the shower, we'll watch a movie. Well I kind of
looked through his DVR and he had a whole big
section on all those things he just talked about, and
so I realized, you know, where his interest was. And
I had a little interest, but not the same as
his by any means. And then three years ago, almost
exactly to today, my wife and I was some friends
went to Nepal and we were hiking over to Avers
base camp and our guide just happened to be a
Buddhist monk, and about a third of the way to
has base camp, he took us into a temple and
showed us a hand and a skull of what he
described as being a yetti goal on hand.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: And we couldn't touch them. They were behind glass, but
I was looking at it from six inches away. And
I'm an orthopedic surgeon. I know all about can anatomy
and that that hand looked like a human hand, but
it was probably twice as big, and the skull was
probably about the size of a human skull if you
added a football helmet to it, and the scalp part
of the scalp was still there, and it was covered
in really short brown hair. So you know, I really
didn't have much interest in Bigfoot before seeing finding Bigfoot.
And then I happened to see the doll in the
hand of a supposed yetty. And so David and I
had been the kind of friends, like we said, we've
got to get together periodically on a guy's trip where
we might go golfing or go see a sporting event.
And after this he called me up and said, hey,
let's go on another guy's trip.
Speaker 4: And so I had said, well, why don't we go
see if.
Speaker 3: We can find Bigfoot? And that's kind of where we
got started this.
Speaker 2: So how'd you guys pick your first spot to go to?
Speaker 1: Yeah, curse said, hey, see what you think of us.
We felt like, you know, with California, it would be
a good place to start, you know, close. So I
began doing some research and stuff. I went to the
VFRO website, looked up all the counties in California and
how many different sidings they had and stuff, and you know,
just with you know, Bluff Creek and all that with
the Persians can win the history up there. Siske County
had to me had the most sightings that I could find.
So I said, hey, let's go up to you know,
northwestern California. So after that I started looking on you know,
backpacking and trails things like that, trying to find, you know,
an interesting place to go. I mean, we were just
in go backpacking with guys, you know, quote big fitting,
but it was more to spend time with Curtis, you know.
But I found this interesting trail called the Kelsey Trail
was on the Smith River, which is about twenty six
miles east of Christen City, and we had to go
on this It looked like pretty desolate area. We had
to go on the dirt road for like six miles
and then the hike in was about six miles to
where you know, I felt like we could camp and
things like that. So we went into the trail head there,
heading into the Siski willerness.
Speaker 5: And I think, like David said, we kind of went
into this calling it a big foot trip that we
predomin we were expecting just a camping trip or a
backpacking trip with friends. And I would say maybe the
first three days we were there.
Speaker 3: I think we were there six days and five nights.
The first three days, you know, maybe we found some
exes off in the distance and maybe a tree break
here and there, but nothing we could really you know,
honestly say, was anything other than just a natural occurrence.
And you know, about the third or fourth day, I
think David was looking at his maps again and he
noticed that one of the trails, and we've been up
and down the creek both north and south, looking all
around every single day and evening, hadn't really found much.
And he noticed that on the map there was another
trail sort of across this creek, and so he suggested we,
you know, take one of the days and go across there.
And that's where we started finding some things. Yeah, there was.
Speaker 1: Only one trail you know, in there and out. And
so when we got in there, we found a great,
a great campsite right on a peninsula by a creek,
and you know, nice water and things like that in shape.
But so we set up our game cams around the entrance,
you know, and on that trail, so we knew what
was going in and out and if anyone was around
there and things like that. So in the whole time
that we were there, we only saw we met one guy.
He came in and he went out the next day,
so we knew that there was no one else around
with us. But so we started going up crossing the
creek over and going up that trails. It was more
into the wilderness area, you know, where the direction that
it was heading. So we started seeing some like you know,
suspicious things on you know, branches is like twelve feet
high being broken off in ninety degrees and we had
pictures of that curtis trying to reach it and things
like that, and you know, other branches around, other trees
being broken like, you know, maybe seven eight feet tall.
One tree we found it was a big tree and
it's it's hanging up in the air and it's had
these other two vine trees wrapped around it holding it.
But there's no stump, you know, and how the heck
did that get there? You know, And we're looking around
for the stump. We can't find it. We don't know
where it fell from, but it's just hanging like you know,
pointing up the hill and there was a game trail
right beside it, and so it's just kind of interesting,
you know for that.
Speaker 2: Like, yeah, interesting to see a tree hanging in the air.
Speaker 1: Wrapped it was like wrapped in you know, these these
other these you know, things are weaved around and holding
it up and it's like, that's weird.
Speaker 3: And tie four or five feet off the ground, which
is really crazy.
Speaker 2: And it was pointing up the hill.
Speaker 1: You said, Yeah, the top of the tree was pointing
up toward up the hill and the bottom was you know,
hanging like four or five feet up the ground with
these branches wrapped around holding it up. And I had
no idea how it could be twisted like that, you know,
like if you were going to hold it up and
pull these branches and wrap the branches around each other
to hold up this tree. It was. It's strange, and
we had a picture of it. It's kind of I
don't know how that happens, especially where the tree comes
from down the hill or up till there's no there
was no stump that it came from.
Speaker 3: And then we started finding other weird things. We noticed
on a couple of different trees that there were you know,
four or five foot long branches that were sort of
stacked up against the tree, leaning on the trees of
something had clearly placed these branches there, and they were
essentially pointing in the same direction as the tree stump
or not the tree stumped the tree that was elevated,
and these branches you look at them, they didn't come
from the tree. They were completely different types of trees.
One of them was even you know, solid red, it
was like from a mandanita bush or on things. So
whatever had placed them there had brought them there and
kind of stood them up against the tree. And I
don't know if you've seen Expedition Bigfoot, but this season
they were in northern California, my guess is probably within
fifty miles where we were, and they had a similar finding.
There's was probably more dramatic, at least on their videos
that they've shown on Expedition big but they had you know,
fifteen or twenty foot sticks kind of leaning up against
a tree. So it was just, you know, just that
show was sort of confirmation of what we found. Was
just unusual to be off the trail in the wilderness
in a place where no one seemed to be. Obviously
we had been there so other people could have gotten there.
But that wasn't even the strangest sort of tree finding
that we found. We kind of are now on this
side of the trail looking for things. Our interest is peaked.
We found an elevated tree, We found other branches all
pointing in the same direction, and we eventually found what
I described as an igloo, and I don't know how
to describe it any differently. It was a domed dwelling,
probably about the size of a two or three person
backpacking tent, about three feet in height, maybe six feet
across or eight feet across, and maybe eight feet long,
and there was you know, opening at one end, and
so there was Yeah, the branches were all weak together,
so this was not you know, just branches being laid out.
They were weaved together to make a sturdy, domed structure.
And then so we figured, well, could this be human?
I mean, probably most likely it was. We started looking
for other signs of humans being there. Thing I noticed
I don't even know if I said it to David
at the time, but inside the structure, you know, most
people when they put down a tent will kind of
move all the sticks out and rocks and put their
tent down. Nothing had been cleaned out, but it was
all compressed down. So whatever slept there slept right on
whatever was inside the dome. And then the next next
thing we look for a fire pit. You know, you're
out in the middle of nowhere, and even in the summer,
it was probably in the mid forties at night, and
most people are going to have a fire, if not
for warmth, just for you know, something to look at
in the middle of the night. There was no fire pit.
And then we started looking for a while, maybe there's
trash or something, because you know, humans seven, if you're
trying to be clean, you're going to leave some scraps
of paper or wrappers or something. And there was nothing. Yeah, yeah, literally,
So then we started looking around it. Like David said,
we found five or six piles of scat that were
just huge and it looked like human scat, but bigger
than anything I've ever done in my life. And we
started thinking, well, what what could do this? Like I said,
we kind of beforehand on our drive up, we wanted
to look at.
Speaker 4: Everything from a scientific side.
Speaker 3: Our viewpoint, and if we could rule it out as
being you know, some other cause, we would, but you know,
It didn't look like bear scout. It didn't look like
deer or else scat. There's nothing else that big that
we know of in the area. It looked like human scat,
but probably three times the amount. And then the other
crazy thing is, you know, in our camp, we went
maybe one hundred and fifty feet away through our business
and we buried it so we wouldn't step on it
the next day or smell it or anything like that.
These were all sitting on top of the ground. There
was no toilet paper, There was no evidence of any
like moss or leaves that anything had used to clean themselves.
Whatever had done it had just squatted five or six
times around its dwelling and did.
Speaker 1: Its business well.
Speaker 3: Really strange. No sign of other, you know, humans had
been there. But we find this dwelling if you would,
and scat all around.
Speaker 2: Were there any signs of like tools being used to
like cut the limbs or anything.
Speaker 3: No, they all looked broken, you know, we did look
at that. I didn't mention that none of them had
been cut with an axe or a saw. They had
all been snapped or fallen.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: They maybe they were deadfall that had been dragged into
the area. I don't know, but they had all been
broken some way and had no cut ends on them.
Speaker 2: I mean, that's just so weird. You know, if it
was a human, that's a pretty long term structure for
a primitive shelter for someone to make. You would think
there would definitely be signs of a fire and you know,
the limbs being cut to create the shelter. That that
just seems so weird that anybody would go back there
and do it by hand and not build a fire
and not clear it out, and then to just defecate
all around it. I mean, that doesn't sound human at
all to me.
Speaker 3: Oh, I mean, that's exactly what we thought. So, you know,
we we thought with those findings we kind of hit
the jackpot and that would be as good as anything
we found the rest of the week. But I was wrong.
Speaker 1: Wrong. Yeah. So the next thing that I think we found,
we'd gone back if you know, after that trail, if
you know, if you at about two miles and stuff,
but in the same area we had found a lot
of the trees and stuff like that.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I'm always looking for track traps and trying to find,
you know, places they can see traps and things like that,
and I hadn't noticed it on a day or two before.
But about thirty yards off the trail, we're walking and
I see this kind of wet area, and I say, hey, Kurt,
there's a track trap. Let's just go over there and
look and see what we can see. And you know,
like we think we're going to expect to see like
deer tracks or you know whatever. Even if there's barren
area thing like that, you could do that. But so
we were walking off there and it's thirty yards off
the trail behind brush and stuff. I could just see
through the brush and see, you know, wettiness over there.
I just want to go look at it. So we
go walking over there and there's this probably a marsh.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 1: The marsh is about I don't know, curius, what do
you say, fifteen to twenty feet cross, and you know,
maybe a double of length, you know, winde But there's
nothing was water in it, mud and things like that,
but it was nothing I would want to walk through.
Speaker 3: And it was probably about, you know, the size of
a homeless swimming pool in the area. At least, you know,
it wasn't wasn't huge, It wasn't a big lake. It
was just a little marshy area and probably at its
depth it was four inches deep, maybe six inches at
that mouth.
Speaker 1: But you didn't have to walk through it to go
past it. You we walked around it, you know, just
to go ten feet dis direction and you walk around
it on dry land and you go around the other side.
So it's like, if you're a human, you why would
you walk through there and get your bots all dirty?
But so we go there and all a sudden go hey,
courtainly do that and there's there was three three footprints
walking right through the middle of the marsh, and I go, wow,
this is this is crazy. So we go over there
and we got the pictures comparing our foot size to
the thing, and Curtis and we both were thirteen's and
you know the picture, you know, it's about twice as
wide as in this foot and about three or four
inches longer than a shoe, so it figures probably measuring
about you know, I think, you know, thirteen shoes about
thirteen inches thirteen, you know, so carib measure about fifteen
inches long and about twice as wide it is shoe.
And there was like three steps. You could see it
in the water. You could just see the imprint in
the water, and the first one, the second one was
about a foot or two past it, like the left
foot first and then the right foot. But then the
third step was like over four feet. The next step
was four feet further out, and then there was about
another four feet to get out of the swamp from
that side, and there was no step on there. So
we figured that the guy whatever made it, you know,
made the first step, second step, the third step and
four step out you know, onto the dry area. And
so it was about yeah, four to five feet you
know step length you know, on there with it. And
again so we're saying, hey, this is this is by people.
This is not like, I mean, for a bear to
step on itself and make it, you know, like a
look like a footprint, things like that. You have to
do it three times in a row and do that.
And we say, well, what is this? How do you
make that? And see, well, people could run and jump
and make that type of step length or strike you know,
stride length. You can do that. But if you're running
and you jump and step in mud, you're gonna slide. Yeah, yeah,
you know, there there was no sliding. There was no
nothing of that, you know, around these things. It was
just a walking step into the wet, you know, with
a stride so something by Peter walked across that with
a sixteen inch foot with a probably six inches wide
and a stride a step length of about you know,
forty eight to fifty inches long, and so were the
crazy thing about that was that so we were like, wow,
this is amazing. So we were getting kind of excited
about that, and we go back when we came back
the next day to look at it and inspect it
some more. And the interesting thing was that the middle
that the third step had disappeared. It had been reabsorbed
you know, by the marsh, and we took a picture
and we took a picture of that. So that was
kind of like, okay, this is going to disappear in
twenty four hours. Yeah, then that has to be recent.
That has to be you know, within twenty four hours
that that was made.
Speaker 2: You know, for us, I saw a photo I believe,
of that trackway that you're talking about, and it's definitely bipedal.
I mean, anything with four legs leaves a very definite trail,
especially through a spot like that, and the telltale signs
of a four legged animal going through. There were just
not there, not there at all.
Speaker 3: And it looked like right left, right left, you know
exactly what you're saying, by pedal. It it did look
by pedal. So, you know, we see that, go back
to camp, decide that's where we're gonna kind of concentrate
our efforts. We had a couple of days left. Next
day we decided to go out there kind of close
to the Marshy area and just kind of sit and
listen to, you know, what was happening around. And David
had these sound amplification headphones and he was probably seventy
five yards away from me, up against a log, just
sitting there. And I was sort of off the trail
it sort of sitting.
Speaker 4: Under a bush, and I could see him, he could
see me.
Speaker 3: We could probably see, I don't know, two hundred and
forty degrees each of us around. And we sat there
for about an hour. And with these headphones, we could
literally I could whisper and he could hear me and
buy some versus so we could converse without making too
much noise, and we could hear things off in the
distance kind of moving around. But we had no idea
We couldn't tell us bipedal by what we could hear,
but things were definitely moving around us. And finally, after
about an hour, I noticed that they're you know, close
to him. There was this what looked like a broken
tree just across from the marsh, and I had never
noticed it before, but just sitting there for an hour,
I finally was staring at this thing. And it was
under the canopy of a redwood tree, and you know,
the canopy of a redwood tree. He's probably you know,
fifty feet at least across, and not much grows underneath.
It cannot be of a redwood tree because of the
you know, there's no light number one, number two, all
the pine needles. Kind of never tried to grow grass
underneath a pine tree. It just just doesn't happen, you know.
So it caught my caught my attention being in a
weird spot. Maybe it was a tree that had just
been broken off by something. But when we decided we
were done listening, I kind of walked up to this
thing and David's looking at me, like, what are you doing?
And I just started looking at it. And it didn't
widen out at the base like a tree kind of wood,
and I started moving it and there was a little
micro emotion, and pretty soon I had the thing loose
and I pulled it out and it was not a stump.
It was clearly broken both ends and had been jammed
in the ground about six in and it was sticking
up about three foot out of the ground. So you know,
something had taken this three and a half foot long
stick and jammed in the ground. And it was literally
right across from the marsh. And you know, part of
what caught my attention not only you know, what would
something grow under the canopy of a redwood tree, but
I had seen on YouTube other people describing sticks being
stuck in the ground, or trees even being upturned and
upside down and jammed into the ground, and you know,
obviously maybe something could have done it when it was muddy,
but I took that thing out. David has a video
of me trying to jam that thing in the ground
with the sharp end, and I didn't make it damp,
So if it didn't happen when it was muddy, something
it took a lot of force to jam that thing
six inches into the ground. So it was literally right
across from the marsh where whatever had you done those
three steps in the marsh and crossed came out onto
the trail. But you know, I know we're kind of
making an assumption here, but it was as if it
was a marker as to where it to cross the
main trail.
Speaker 2: Could you tell what kind of tree it was?
Speaker 1: It?
Speaker 3: So yeah, we looked, Well, no, we could not tell,
but we did look around. You know, it clearly was
not a redwood. It was not a branch that had
fallen out of the redwood tree. Yet it was under
the canopy of a redwood tree. So then we're looking
around to see if any of the trees around it
had a branch that size that had broken, or if
there was a stump around or anything like that. Just
like David said, we looked for that stump of that
elevated tree. We could not find the source of that tree.
So this, you know, I guess you'd call it a
log more than anything. It was probably four inches in
diameter and about three and a half feet you know long.
My guess is it probably weighed about thirty pounds, not
heavy by any means, but we could not find a
place where it had come from. So whatever I had
put it in the ground, you know, from what we
could see, had brought it from somewhere deeper in the forest.
Speaker 2: I mean that, you know, as far as I'm aware of,
that takes hands. So you're limited down to either humans
or bigfoot at that point. And I don't see a
human just carrying around a log like that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we our last story of California. It was the
last morning. As David said, we had set up our
base camp about five or six miles in from the trailhead,
and we took all our day trips out of there,
come back at night. Well, last morning we were planning
on leaving. We both woke up about six am, got
out of our tents. About five minutes later. I decided
to put on some water to get our coffee going.
And we had sort of set up our backpacking stove
underneath the canopy of another redwood that was in our
base camp. It was probably thirty feet or so from
our tent, and so I started pouring water into a pot,
and all of a sudden, the pine cone lasts or
lands right near my left foot. Okay, no big deal,
I'm under the canopy of a redwood tree. A redwood
tree has pine cones. There are hundreds of pine cones
on the ground all around us. Well, about three seconds later,
before I even light the fire, another one lands by
my right foot. Well, again, didn't take much of it.
And David's standing under the canopy maybe eight feet from me,
and he's seen all this happen, but you know, still
could be natural. Two pine cones fall, but we looked
up and you know, there's not a breath of wind
in the air whatsoever. So I go to sit down
in my little backpacking camp chair about eight feet away,
and the same thing happens. Now I'm sitting down and
it's like a perfect myss. One pine cone lands by
my right foot and one pine cone lands by my
left foot, and you know, I'm looking up into the tree,
and David decides to back up into the opening, and
he can kind of tell you what he was looking for.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, when I first the first one didn't there,
didn't even think anything of it. When the last two
almost hit him. When he's sitting in a chair, I'm like,
what the heck is going And I start looking up
at the tree and I couldn't see much, so I
started back I backed off about been twenty feet to
get out from underneath the canopy. And I'm sitting here
looking up in the tree and trying to see it.
I'm under open sky and trying to look up as
far as I could to see it. I don't see
any squirrel I had seen. I seen a squirrel like
fifty feet away in the opposite direction in a tree,
but not up in that tree. And all of a sudden,
a pine cone lands by my foot, and then then
another pine cone lands on my foot, and I'm in
the open there's nothing on it, there's nothing above me,
and I what the heck? And as soon as that happened,
I think both of us it was just I can
still see us, both of us realizing that this is
not natural. And we both stood up and turned to
our you know, my left is right looking up the
ridge above our camp. At the same time, we just
both turned up, and immediately it stopped, and I was
I started looking at these things and realized that two
or three of these pine cones are actually green, And
you know, we took a picture of one to sow
that it was green, and it was like, how the
heck are green pine cones? Falling out of a tree
unless you got some sniper squirrel, you know, that's throwing
pine cones at us, you know, you know from there.
But yeah, that was about you know, seven or eight
pine cones. That seemed the only thing you could say
was thrown at us, you know, at six in the
morning and you're like like six miles into somewhere. Someone
would have if someone's you know, punking us or something.
You know, we had trail camps up on the trail.
We didn't see anybody coming in. They would have to
hike in at six in the morning, probably leave at
two in the morning just to go do that, you know,
hike in, throw pine cones and leave. Because we packed
up after you know that, and started heading out in
the morning, and we didn't run into anyone for about
three or four miles until we were almost out.
Speaker 3: You know, when those people, those people that we ran
into had not been camping. They both had a water
bottle and a granola bar. They had just come into
the to the trail had about eight in the morning.
They said they were just scouting for a camping site
for the next weekend, so they didn't you know, they
had not camped there overnight. There's no way that these guys,
like I said, unless they had been there two in
the morning at the trail ahead, walked in and then
walked back out and then walked out towards the wilderness
again to see us. Could they have pumped us and
I you know, they just didn't have the equipment there.
It was a married couple. I just can't see a
married couple getting there at two in the morning and
just just happening to find somebody camping and decide to
throw pine cones at them when they get up at
six in the morning.
Speaker 2: Yeah, nobody's doing that. I mean, in an area like that,
most of the people there, the vast majority of people
there are going to kind of be under the same
mindset and they're not going to be messing with people.
They're not, you know, they're trying to avoid people. That's
why they go there. Uh, the idea to like start
throwing pine cones at somebody from the bush, says, I don't.
I don't think anybody would do that.
Speaker 1: We hadn't heard of that before. And what was interesting
was afterward, you know, we started seeing some comments or
maybe you just don't even think about It's like when
you buy a car, you start seeing that car all
over the place. But you know, we had we started
hearing people mention that they had had pine cones, you know,
throwing that, and that's what happened that anyway, that was that.
Speaker 3: Was our California experience over about fighting and here we are,
we're rookies. We're going into this not trying, not believing
we'll find anything. And we had talked going up. I
was more of a skeptic than David. Obviously he had
a more you know, seated, deep seated foundation on Bigfoot
than I did. I My Bigfoot was learned through finding Bigfoot,
and I was quite skeptical. But you know, after all
that happened in our Californi on a trip, I was
now at least open to believing that it was possible,
if not probable, that there was a big Foot out there.
Speaker 2: I mean, those are some amazing experiences, especially for our
first time out. I mean, those would have been amazing
experiences for your one hundredth time in the field, you know,
for a veteran bigfooter.
Speaker 3: Well, like we said, we were not expecting anything. You know,
we kind of went into the thing. Yeah, we're going
to go find Bigfoot, but but we pretty much decided
we were just going to be two guys out camping
and backpacking and having a good time, and if we
found something, it was, you know, icing on the cake.
Speaker 2: Did you guys get anything on your trail cams while
you were there?
Speaker 1: The only thing we got was us. And the guy
was the guy that we ran into him one day
that we were He was coming in and just coming
in overnight, and and then he walked out the same
we saw him going in, we saw him going out.
We talked to him both times, so we knew when
he was there, we knew when he when he left.
And that was the only thing we got on the
trail cams.
Speaker 2: Any signs of wildlife or anything.
Speaker 3: No nothing on the trail, no other no animals on
the trail cam. So, you know, that was kind of disappointing,
But then you know, we've obviously seen things where people
have said, you know, possibly obviously nobody knows. Maybe Bigfoot
can see that, you know, if they are out there,
maybe they can see the infrared on the on the
game cam and they avoid them. But no, no wildlife
whatsoever we saw the whole time we were out there,
and and we never you know, in fairness to our critics,
we never saw bigfoot. We never got a picture of
a bigfoot. But we had some crazy experiences that as
guys who tried to explain things. You know, we're both scientists,
we're both physicians. We can't explain them other than potentially
if it was a bigfoot. And you know, we get
a lot of joshing from our friends and family that
you know, we've come to this conclusion even though we've
never seen a bigfoot or got a picture of a bigfoot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but whenever it comes to this stuff, I call
it the fifty to fifty rule, which is pretty much
as good as you're going to get without having an
actual physical sighting of a bigfoot. And that's whenever you
get to the point where you're like with the log
for instance, where it's okay, well this was either a
person or it was a bigfoot, and then you just
kind of have to go over the idea of like, okay, well,
how probable is it that it was a human? And
in everything you're describing there doesn't seem to be any
signs of it being human as the cause.
Speaker 3: And that was basically our thinking as well, well, all
the things that that we found kind of off that
trail across the creek. You know, how do you explain
an igloo made out of sticks that are weaved with
no other sign of humans around. How do you explain that,
you know, three steps across a twenty foot marsh with
sixteen inch foot feet, How do you explain that log
jammed into the ground exactly where that thing would have
crossed the trail at it, you know, off that marsh.
You know, there there aren't many explanations of that being
human behavior.
Speaker 1: All those things who's throwing p Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, pinecones falling out of the tree is a pretty
random occurrence, and just the sheer number and that amount
of time, and the fact that they all landed by you, guys,
and nowhere else that I mean, Yeah, something was throwing
pine cones at you.
Speaker 4: And with no wind.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean if you could expect it, if there
was a thirty mile an hour wind and I was
sitting under under a redwood, that, yeah, five or six
pine cones might fall in a two minute period. But
then even with that, if there was wind and there wasn't,
I'd explained two or three landing all around David out
in the open. You know, that would have taken a
one hundred mile an hour wind to do that, and
there was no wind, and you know the other things.
As I think back on that experience, you know, they
were like perfect misses if you would. We were never hit,
but we were also whatever was throwing them sort of
let us know that if it wanted to, it could
have hit us. With those pine cones, they were all
within a foot of us.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it wasn't over like minutes, and this was within
thirty sixty seconds that this happened.
Speaker 2: Wow, I mean, that's even crazier to get completely unscientific
about it. Did you guys ever have a sense of
like being watched?
Speaker 1: The only time I'd say is something is that when
when we both turned to look up at that point
when they started landing by me, I think we both
felt something was there throwing things at us. Whatever it was,
We both turned at the same time. We both had
the same you know, I felt the sensation. We both
looked in the same direction, you know, at the same time.
We both you know, it was at that point I said,
something is doing this, you know, And that was the
only time that I would have felt.
Speaker 3: There was, you know, and I would say my turning
and looking up there, you know. You hear a lot
of people say that they they kind of felt that
they're being watched the whole way in on a trail
or something like that. I didn't have that feeling. It's
just it was sort of a quick process of elimination.
There was a creek behind us. Couldn't have come from
across the creek because that was probably across the creek
was maybe one hundred and fifty feet, so those would
be some tremendous throws. So we were sort of surrounded
on two sides by a creek behind us. The trail
kind of flattened out off to our left, and we
could see down there. There was nothing there. It was
just more of a office of elimination. I knew it
wasn't behind me on the creek, and I knew it
wasn't down by the trail, So to me, it was
just more process of elimination. I just sort of reasoned
that it had to be up there. I personally never
had a sense that something was watching me. I just
had a realization that these pine cones were coming up
from the ridge behind our tent.
Speaker 2: Did you save one of the pine cones?
Speaker 1: We didn't say that. I took a close up of
one of the green ones because I was like, no
one's going to believe that there's green pine cones, and
I said, yep, I'm taking the picture of this one.
Speaker 3: And clearly, you know, we we admit we're trying our
rookies at all. This this is our first trip. We
had a lot of mistakes. We we didn't have a
take measure to measure the you know, footprints, We didn't
bring back one of the pine cones. We didn't have
any audio recorders out. We just had game trail or
game cameras, and we had some night vision infrared flear
cameras that we never found anything on. But we were
just kind of newbies out there again, not expecting to
find anything. So yeah, we probably should have brought one
of those home and maybe seeing if there was DNA
on it or whatever. But but we were, in a
real sense, just rookies at doing this.
Speaker 2: I just asked, because I've seen a few people with
a rock sitting up on their mantles before that they
brought home.
Speaker 3: From Yeah, we should have brought back We should have
brought up trophy, but we didn't.
Speaker 2: I had a really good friend that was on an
outing in Alabama, I believe, and they weren't even doing
anything at the time. They were sitting around camp, round
the campfire, and they thought that a rock had been
thrown at them, and it kind of got their attention.
So they're paying attention, and she said, the next thing,
you know, this rock comes whizzing by her head and
hits the tree right behind her chair, and you know,
it hit pretty hard and it just landed right there
on the ground next to her, and she took it
home with her. So I understand completely. I've also experienced
the whole rock throwing thing myself, and the whole perfect
miss concept is exactly what it seems like they do.
I can't believe that they can't hit you. I just
choose that they choose not to hit you. But yeah,
it's weird how they do that. Do you guys have
any theories on the purpose us of that. Do you
think they're just trying to get your attention or mess
with you or see how you'll react. What do you
think they're doing that for? If they are responsible for it, I.
Speaker 1: Think it'd be you know, an attention thing. Okay, this
is already you know, we've been walking around the area
where they've been walking, you know, walking, you know, on
their game trails and things like that.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, I kind of have the same
thought as David. You know, none of that happened until
we crossed the creek. Once we did that, you know,
sort of the next day or the second time we
went across the creek into their territory, found all these things.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Obviously this is just me assuming, but I think they
were letting us know that they were around and this
was their territory. Now, obviously I have no knowledge of
what they might be thinking, but I think we were
just letting us know. And as it turns out, it
just happened to be the morning we were planning on
leaving anyway.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we were going to leave anyway, guys.
Speaker 1: So no, really, we.
Speaker 3: Had planned I had to be back to work on Monday.
This was Friday. We had a two day drive out
and then I had a plane plane to leave, so
we had kind of planned on leaving on the Friday.
No matter what. They just, you know, maybe if we
had planned on saying on Saturday, who tell Saturday. Who knows,
Maybe we would have left on Friday anyway, but because
of the pine pine cones, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that next night could have gotten real interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we didn't lead because of the pinecones. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I wanted to ask a question about the piles of
scott that you found. Where were these in relation to
the shelter all around?
Speaker 3: I mean I was in forty or fifty feet and
they were not in the same area. I mean it
was literally so to circumferential around the dwelling. So it
was kind of as if whatever decided to have to
go to the bathroom in the middle of the night
or whatever just decided. Well, I went, you know, to
the right yesterday, now I'm going to the left today.
There there was, like I said, six or eight piles
and they were just literally scattered all around.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 3: Like I said, in our camp, we all went in
one place, so we knew to avoid it, knew we
didn't want to step in it, knew we didn't want
to smell it. These were all around the camp.
Speaker 2: David, I'm going to put you on the spot since
you brought up Tom Brown Junior earlier, any idea on
how old the scout was.
Speaker 1: I would, you know, and looking at it, it wasn't
like wet per se. I would probably think a week
or two weeks, you know, something that wasn't It wasn't
like not like I dried, you know, like falling apart dry.
But you know, definitely in the medium time i'd see
medium time dream.
Speaker 2: Just in terms of speculation, my mind is kind of
going to an area of it was possibly used as
like sort of a boundary marker around the shelter, kind
of a you know, stay away, i'm here type thing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Could be they were all, you know, all probably in
a fifteen to seventy five foot radius around around the dwelling,
so could be. And like you said, they're they're not
in one spot, so they did go all around. So
maybe maybe it wasn't random. Maybe it was sort of
a hey, this is my territory, don't come in.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so weird. I've just never I have never
heard anybody find something like that before.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we had neither know our research and you know,
crazy crazy finding. We certainly were not expecting to find it.
And we do have some pictures at least of the
Igloo structure. I can't remember. I maybe David took some
pictures of the scat. I don't don't really remember about
that though.
Speaker 2: So you guys weren't finished though, And I mean, as
crazy as all that stuff is and as remarkable as
it is, the next trip was pretty interesting as well.
Well did you guys just have bigfoot fever at that
point and had to get back out there? How long
was it before you were in Washington?
Speaker 1: It was about two years later. We definitely were like, hey,
we got to do this again. We were excited about
we had what we had, so we I was in
twenty twenty two and we did the California trip, and
then this year was when we decided to go again.
So probably January of this last year we started planning it.
During decide, hey, when we want to go. You know,
we had talked before about when to do it and
were pretty much the same week we were. We always
try to do it before hunting season starts. You know,
I just don't want to be out there, you know,
during hunting season, your season and things like that. So
we try to decide, Okay, where do we want to go?
Do you want to go the same place? Do we
want to do something different. We thought about going to
Canada and and I was like, I wouldn't mind going
to Canada, you know, but it's there's difficult getting guns
and stuff up there, and you know, I feel like
I need to have my self protection and stuff with there.
So we said, okay, let's not do Canada. We looked
at Alaska, a long ways to go, so we thought, hey,
how about Oregon or Washington? You know, so that's kind
of we decided to go from there.
Speaker 3: Like David said, we started our research. We've you know,
David had done most research for the California trip and
finding a spot. I semi retired in January, so I
have work about halftime, and I have more time now.
I started, you know, scrubbing YouTube and trying to find
people who had been in Washington. And you know, obviously
I realized pretty quickly that Washington had more sightings than
any other the lower forty eight states. I think at
the time I started looking the BFROS that there were
six hundred and seventy six Class A and Class B sidings.
And those are just the ones that were reported to
the bf R. You know, there's obviously many that go
unreported so we figured Washington would be, you know, relatively
easily accessible. Then we started looking at the population. We
wanted to try to get, you know, as far away
from population as we could. And fifty products and eighty
percent of the population of Washington's on the west third
and a half of Wassington and only twenty percent on
the eastern half, So we kind of concentrated on the
eastern half of Washington. And then I started finding videos
on YouTube. But one of them is from Grassman fifty eight.
That's his title. I think his name's Will Palmer. I
don't know if you know him, but he has a
number of videos. He describes a corridor sort of starting
in northeastern Washington where we were, and I think he
describes four zones going south through Washington. He describes him
as A, B, C, and D, so I think we
ended up in his A zone. And he has a
number of videos and a lot of them are concentrated
around Bullivan Lake, which is the northeastern corner of Washington,
and he has some specifically along the Sullivan Creek which
feeds into Sullivan Lake, and there's a campground that has
eighteen spots and they're sort of spread out over about
twelve miles or so along Sullivan Creek Road, and he
has videos specifically having quite a bit of activity near
the end of those campgrounds, specifically in Ampsite seventeen. I
think he has a whole video located in that area.
And he seems pretty reasonable. You know, a lot of
people on YouTube are how what should I say, enthusiasts
to every little sound is bigfoot and every little you know,
crack in the woods is big footed. But he seemed
very reasonable on his videos. And he even has a
video of he left out his incorrect camera one night
winning across the small Lake. I don't think it was
near Sullivan Lake, but small little Lake. He just left
it out at night, and at two in the morning
he saw two upright individuals come out of the forest
and start rummaging on the shoreline. They stayed out about
an hour or so and then went back into the forest.
And he realized that the next day when he watched it.
He went over there and there was no trail over there,
and whatever had been there had been digging up clams
in the middle of the night at two in the morning,
freshwater clams.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: So yeah, So that was kind of our reason to
pick northeastern Washington. I then went and called the ranger
because I wanted to do my due diligence, and I
asked him where we could camp that was sort of
as far away from the other campsites as possible, but
still we had access to the water. And the ranger
suggested Gypsy Meadows, which is probably a mile or a
mile and a half half campsite, seventeen further into the wilderness,
but yet it had a bathroom maybe an eighth of
a mile away if we beted it, and had fresh
water with Sullivan Creek. So we sort of chose Gypsy
Meadows as the place that we were going based on
that Will Fomer's videos.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so that's that's when we decided to go. And
you know, we you know, it was like, you know,
we talked about all these camps and we realized that
this was you know, it's a long like seventy eight
miles up the dirt road, and the camps are all
spread out. So when we got up to Gypsy Meadows,
you know, it was we got there mid mid afternoon,
you know, and we were we went to the end
of the campsite that we were you know, the farthest
into the meadows, found a nice camp side over there
and set up camp there. We saw one guy in
a trailer that was camp right in the camp round
right before Gypsy Meadows on the same side. It is
about an eighth of a mile from us. But you know,
the meadow was about one hundred and fifty yards long
and about fifty yards wide in that area, and you
could it was right close to the creek. You could
drive up right close to the creek and get water
if you needed.
Speaker 3: So we started setting up camp and you know, after
getting my tent up in ten or fifteen minutes, I
start blowing up my airmattis with a you know, a
little electric backpacking pump I have, and it makes a wine.
The engine and the fan make a wine. As soon
as I turned this on, we noticed that an owl
in the middle of the afternoon our hoot at us
from across the creek, maybe a quarter mile away. And
it seemed a little stranger an owl would a hoot
during the day. But we did some research and that
was sort of the lower end of the range of
the bard owl, and sometimes it's known to hoot during
the day. So we didn't really think much of it.
But as soon as I turned off the the motor,
hooting stopped, and we kind of mentioned the hooting, not
that it couldn't be an owl, but but hooting sort
of came before everything strange that.
Speaker 1: Happened after that, and so we we didn't take much
of that. When we first happened, Hey, it sounded like
an hour, you know, it's just what started happening, you know,
later really got kind of kind of nuts. But so
we you know, we got there, we set up camp.
We still had an hour or two. So we went
you know, hiking at the end of the middle of
the trail that goes out, and then we crossed the
creek and started following some game trails and the things
that we had found. And I found like a you
know this time we're bringing you know, found a fourteen
inch footprint and they go, Kurt, look at this, and
it's just it's just out in the forced that it's
not like a trail or anything. Found this indentation and
you know, an inch or two depth, and when we
stepped there, we're not making any dents in the ground
with it. So that's interesting. It's a little bigger than
what our shoe was, but it was a lot deeper
than what we were doing. So the next day we
decided to go back and I tried to cast that.
It wasn't a great great print, but we'd never cast anything,
and said, hey, it'll be good, good experience, you know,
good practice. Let's you know, see what we can do.
And hurt Us had brought in some you know, some
apples and peanut butter. We decided to put a game
camera on that area and put up these gifting things,
you know, and see if we could draw something in,
you know, with that look. You know, that night you go, okay,
what are we want to do? You know this again
was you know, fire season, so we couldn't have a fire.
So we said, hey, let's still driving, you know, so
we would go at night. You know, most of the
nights we were there, we'd go driving on the road.
You know, I had a camera on my truck, you know,
pick up things that if someone's working run across because
you never know, right, you know, and and stuff. So
we'd go driving around and we drove up into you know,
a trailhead area you know, one afternoon and you know,
we hiked and you could see how desolate it was
out there. You know. The only thing we saw one
place was the fire lookout building way up on another ridge.
But I mean you could see into Canada, Idahos, you know,
about five miles away, just wilderness stuff, So it's just
pretty pretty far out there.
Speaker 2: Any signs of people other than the guy in the trailer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there were a few who had been up at
the UH on the trail. We saw one guy hiking back.
His car was parked up there at the trailhead, and
we actually saw rangers up there on horses and they
were off on the trail where it went off in
the wilderness. They were just coming back as we went in.
So yeah, we probably saw three other people. Now, the rangers,
you know, we got back to them to the trailhead
after we hiked, and they had loaded up their horses
into their trailer and they drove back as best we
could tell, clear to the ranger station which was at
Sullivan Lake like fifteen sixteen miles away. Now where these
other people went when they came out of the trailhead,
I have no idea, but you know, their car was
gone as well, So there were other people out there.
But then that evening you know, we were not allowed
to have fires, which is kind of disappointing. That's what
you do at night around a campfire. As you sit there,
it gives you warmth, and like watching the TV at home.
And right before bed, that same owl across the creek
started hooting a little bit, and it was kind of
right as we were turning off the lights. And again
we didn't think much of it. But that night, for
whatever reason, the previous night, I'd on the right asleep,
but that night I just could not get to sleep.
I don't know if it was that I was on
a mattress or what. And we probably went to bed
about nine thirty. In about ten to twelve, I looked
at my watch. I still wasn't asleep, and about fifteen
minutes later, that owl started hooting again, and this time
it just didn't stop. I mean it was like four
hoops and then another set of four hoots. Wait ten
or fifteen seconds.
Speaker 1: Do it again.
Speaker 3: And this went on for probably a minute and a
half and there were no responses to his call or
her call, and then the hoots started getting quicker. They
sounded louder. I don't know if it had come closer.
And then the hoots degenerated into what I clearly believe
I heard were whoops, not hoots. They were whoops. And
after a couple of whoops, all of a sudden, to
our north, and this was off to the west. If
we had heard this one owl off to the north,
there was a response of hoots and it was a
clearly a deeper voice. And then behind our camp upper ridge,
there was another response and they were hoots. But once
that whatever that being was owl or other, once it
heard a response, it stopped hooting. After about two minutes. Well,
you know, now I'm kind of wondering what this was.
And again rookie mistake. We didn't have our recorders out,
but I tried to go back to and next thing
I know, it starts up again. I look at my watch.
It's now about an hour later, and I hadn't fallen
the sleep, same exact pattern you know, that started shooting.
The hoots turned to loops. Once they got loops, the
responses came back, and uh, next thing I know, it
seems like it was only five minutes later, I'm being
awakened by David. But I apparently had finally fallen asleep,
and about two fifteen two thirty, he wakes me up
and he found he had heard something even more astonishing.
Speaker 1: So there had I mean that afternoon another some other
campers came in, or the couple guys showed up. We
were about seventeen eighteen year old and then one that
the other one was in his late twenties or so
I would guess about that. But they were at the
other end of the meadow, which was about one hundred
and fifty yards away from us and stuff that. So
I got woken up about one thirty year to somewhere
in that time, and I started hearing this whoop, you know,
the whoops again and it was but it was close,
and it was it was loud, and you know, I
get up started listening to this thing and it was
moving and I was like, that is nuts. It was like,
but it was going from right for the from right
to left. If I was looking towards those guys camp,
he was going from right to left and from the
creek to the road and up the ridge up there.
Would you say about a one hundred and fifty yards Curt, Yeah,
it was easily easily, but this thing was moving and
I would say as over fifteen or twenty seconds, this
thing was moving from where the creek was where we
would get water. I was like, whoop, poop, and then
it started moving right I thought it was going right
through those guys camp. I thought it was like right
on top of them, you know, where your perspective where
you're trying to see the sound. But right in the
middle of all there was a whoop, whoop, whoop. All
of a sudden, I hear this garbling that all I
can describe it, right, you know, they sounds like share sounds.
It hurts here sounds and it goes that is not whooping.
And then they kept going. It's kept moving and then
it got back to whoop, whoop, whoop, and admit it
just went on up the ridge with it. And I
was waking up. Chris, did you hear that? You know
what the heck was that? And he comes climbing out.
We looked down the meadow and these two guys are
climbing out of their tent with their flashlights, looking around
and seeing what the heck's going on. And so it
was about to two o'clock to thirty, you know, at
that time, and we didn't hear anything else after that,
but I was kind of like, that is crazy, and
again we hadn't had we hadn't you know, we're doing rookies. Again,
we hadn't turned on our recorders that night, being it
was the first or second night that we were there,
and so we were like that is nuts. So we
finally went back to bed, and then you know, the
next morning, you know, we went.
Speaker 3: Up so reathfull night sleep obviously, but I went got
back in bed about two or thirty, like David said,
and we'd all been out, all four of us, looking
around this meadow with our flat flights, trying to figure
out what had made the sound. And I hadn't heard
the Sierra sounds like David had. I had only heard
the hoots and whoops, you know, at midnight and one o'clock.
I must have fallen asleep in between, but eventually get
back to bed, kind of in and out of sleep.
Finally I see light coming in around six am, and
I decided, I'm not sleeping anymore. I'm just going to
get up and walk to a court or an eighth
of a mile or so to the bathroom.
Speaker 4: And when I got down.
Speaker 3: There, the older of the two guys who had been
in that and at the other end of the meadow
was coming out of the bathroom, and I, I kind
of wanted to ask him what's what he what his
experience was, without you know, giving him a leading question.
And I said, boy, that was kind of a crazy night,
wasn't it. And he said, yeah, what was that? And
I shrugged my shoulders and said, I don't know, just
you know, trying to get him to to tell me
what had happened. And he said, man, I think there
was more than one of more than one of them,
whatever it was, and they were right on top of him.
One may have even been up in the tree above
my tent. And he said they He said, they started,
you know, running past my tent eventually, and then up
across the little road going into the meadow, up the
ridge behind your camp, and they were gone. And he said,
and while they were running, they were barking. And I said,
you mean like a dog and he said, well, not really,
but that's the only way I can describe it. And
so I said to him, well, can you imitate what
you heard? And he kind of did his best, and
it sounded he repeated exactly what David just did. It
sounded exactly like the Sierra Sounds. So David had was
still asleep, but we had confirmation that what David had
heard was exactly what this guy had heard. And he said, well,
what was that? I said, I don't know, but if
you ever heard of the Sierra sounds and he said no,
I haven't, And I said, well, what do you think
of bigfoot? And he kind of had a nervous chuckle
and shrugged his shoulders and kind of turned around and
walked back towards his camp. Incidentally, I don't know if
they had planned it. I didn't talk to him again,
but shortly after breakfast they were out of there. I
don't know because what they heard or that was their
plan to only be there one night, but they were
pretty much gone right after breakfast. So here at six fifteen,
I talked to this guy for about five or ten minutes.
David's asleep before I get done going to the bathroom.
They both described that it went up this ridge and
across the main road. So I walked out to the
main road and locked up the road maybe one hundred
and fifty yards, and that was probably about the level
of our camp, you know, into the meadow. It was
essentially parallel to our camp, and I noticed across the
road a tree break that was about nine or ten
feet up and it was clearly a tree break sort
of pointing further into the wilderness. And it was right
up against the road, was sort of right up against
the incline that I would ask to make was at
about fifty degrees, and something had sort of turned up
the dirt up that you know, the grass and stuff
up that incline, and this is not something that I
would be trying to climb, but whatever had had come
across the road literally went up the incline right next
to this tree break. So I start thinking, well, there's
got to be a game trail that they came, you know,
from behind our camp up to the road. If I
crossed the road and start looking, and sure enough, I
find a game trail coming out. So I kind of
mark it with a stick and make sure we can
find it later if we set up there. And you know,
even though it was maybe one hundred to one hundred
and fifty yards behind our camp up to the road,
this was dense forest. It was you know that saying
you can't see the forest because of the trees from
the road. I'm looking in I just see trees, you know,
That's all I see. So I walk back to our
camp and as I get to the meadow, David is
kind of there looking in the grass that had been trampled,
you know, trying to see what he could see.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was just trying to see if there had
to be some type of tracks or something going across there.
It's you know, there's multiple area that's like trampled down,
but it couldn't get any definite you know, prints or things.
But I said, we've had to be right through these
guys camp. So it's kind of looking and we found
a couple of game trails behind their camp. They crossed
the road and went you know, across this meadow area
that I was trying to look for prints and stuff.
And then so we decided to start following this trail trailways.
We got going and following, like, you know, hey, I
think this looks open here, let's start going this way.
And we started following this trailway. Then we end up
coming on this we find this real huge X you know,
of these trees, and we're looking at that and go
look at this, you know, and it's a perfect X
and these are large trees, and you know, we're trying
to say is this normal or is this happened by
stance or what was it that it? You know, two
standing trees are you know about you know, six you know,
six feet apart and about a foot thick, and they're
bent over forming this perfect X, you know, and it's
right on this game trail that we were tracking, you know,
to go up there, and you know, the first tree
had been pushed over, you know, had a rip ball
on it, you know, it started coming up with it.
It was wedged between two other trees. But the second
one was strange was that in order for it to
form the X, the tree had to be twisted and
you could tell we took pictures of that, but the
bottom of the tree wasn't being pulled up, but it
was rotated and twisted. It's like you pull this tree
down and push it over to fit between these two
trees in order to form the sex. There's like no
way that was going to fall that way, and it
wasn't falling. It was still in the ground and you
just pushed over and twisted. You could see the rotation
in the bark at the bottom of the tree. You know,
we're breaking off and rotating and that's not natural, you know.
And what was crazy was that right after that we
fall the trail. We ended up right where Curtis had
marked marked his trail. Wow.
Speaker 2: An interesting point about the guy that you spoke to.
I notice you said that he related that they were running.
Speaker 3: I think it's because of how quickly they moved. I mean,
as David said this area, he was probably maybe thirty
yards from the creek. But you know, from the sounds
of what David had described, and this guy had described
whatever they were had come from across the creek, and
he was probably thirty yards from the creek, maybe a
little more, and then another one hundred to one hundred
and fifty yards up the trail. And by the time
David gets out of his tent and wakes me up,
nothing is heard. I never heard any of this. So
whatever happened, No, it covered a tremendous amount of ground
or they covered a tremendous amount of ground in fifteen
twenty seconds. It covered maybe one hundred and fifty to
two hundred yards. So I don't know, he didn't see anything,
he just you know, heard I guess stomping.
Speaker 1: If you would.
Speaker 3: I don't know how football, I guess the better way
of saying it. And because of the distance they covered,
you know, he couldn't get out of his pant quick
enough either to see anything. I think he assumed they
were running. I really don't know. I didn't question him
on that.
Speaker 1: I was moving fast, and you know, if I was
looking at degrees on pointing it towards the creek, all
the way to where it disappeared had to be within
twenty or thirty seconds.
Speaker 2: Was this all open meadow or were there trees?
Speaker 1: No, it's well the meadow where their camp was. They
were at the end of the meadow, so I had
thought that it sounded like it was going right through
their camp, but they said it was like behind, right
behind them. And we did find those two large game
trails that went from the creek right behind their camp
across the entrance road that goes into the meadow, and
that's where we started our trail and went up and
found that X up there. So it was right close
to them, but it was through the woods from the
creek to where it got to the you know, the
road that goes into the meadow.
Speaker 2: A couple hundred yards at around two two thirty in
the middle in the morning burnband, so there's no there's
no light, there's no light. So whatever it was that
was traveling at that speed in Pitt's black darkness and.
Speaker 1: Then garbletalk, you know, and then back to eating, you know,
as they went up the up the ridge.
Speaker 3: So that was world class speed basically, you know. And
like I said, I hadn't hadn't heard all of that,
but David's was twenty feet from mine, and literally what
he told me was, you know, he'd heard these hoots,
but once he heard it moving, he unzipped his sleeping bag,
unlipped his tent and was at my tent. However long
it takes to travel twenty feet and he's trying to
get me up, and when I wake up, I hear nothing.
So you know, whatever mind framed that is. You know,
David said it was measured in seconds, not in minutes
by any means.
Speaker 2: I mean, as someone who has heard the hero sounds. David,
what did you think when you heard that?
Speaker 1: I was like, that is talking, you know, that was
to me it was there was communication going on with
being that fast across it, and it was like that
was amazing. What did I just hear? And I go
The on thing I could describe it was, you know,
that came to my mind was, you know, the Sierra
sounds sh sounds were a little more separated in the
you know, in the conversation if you if you know
what I mean by that, you know, you hear one
and then hear another. This was like a they were
just at each other right right, right right, you know,
it's like right, you know, and then it gets back
into the hooting.
Speaker 2: From your perspective, could you did it sound like two
distinct voices?
Speaker 1: It sounded more than that. It sounded to me like
there was like three different at least three different things going.
You know. It was a it was a pack of something,
you know. To me, it was all I could see
was this, there's something group of something going across there
and they're moving.
Speaker 3: Fast and and and then David's uh, you know, just
to give him more creams to what he said without prompting,
the guy had said they to me, and he said
there was more than one of them. So and the
interesting thing, you know, he thought one of them might
at one point been in a tree up above him.
And as David said they were stamped right on the
edge of where the forest met the meadow. They were
maybe ten feet into the meadow. Is all so very
easily something could have been above them, or I suppose,
you know, the other explanation for something being right above
their kent not being in trigue maybe if something was
ten feet tall.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to say, we're not used to
hearing things eight to ten feet off the ground, so
right right.
Speaker 3: So whether something was actually in the tree or not,
I don't know, but that's how he described it. And
he definitely said they and them and it was not
one of one. Whatever it was behind his tent that night.
Speaker 2: Did you guys stay any more nights after that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? That was like on the second night you know
that we were there that that happened. It just kind
of strange, you know, after we went the evening after
we did that, we were broken up again by these
hoots again coming across the creek. And I think Curtis,
you heard something walking, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, about eleven thirty the hoots started across the cross
the creek. I had a recorder out that night. I
still I've had some technical issues. I haven't been able
to listen to the whole thing. I had it down
close to where that guy's camp was. There was a
sort of a gypsy meadows sign that I had taped
from my recorder to I'm still trying to get through
it to see if it picked up these hoots. But
about eleven thirty hoots across the creek, and then maybe
five or ten minutes later, I hear something moving behind
our tents up this ridge and I couldn't estimate how
close it was, but it was close enough to hear,
you know, football. Now, I can't say, even though I'm
an orthopedic surgeon that I could say what was traveling
there was bipedal, but something was definitely moving in the
in the forest right behind us. And then you know,
shortly after, maybe a few minutes after I heard this movement,
kind of all hell broke loose with hoots all around us.
And David could say more about that because they were
real close to his tent.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was about that evening. There was something that
just was like ten yards from my tent and it
was you know, there's like a post where you used
to tie horses in the meadow, and I felt it
was like right by that post, and it woke me up,
and it just you know, and I was going, you know,
we had started talking and are these things big fits
or are they mimicking owls or what are they? But
what is this sound? You know that we keep hearing
and you know that they go to woops. So we
did not know. But this thing was right outside my
tent and it was loud, and I in the dark.
I was like, do I turn on a light? Do
I get out of my tent right now? After this
thing is standing yeah, in the middle, in the middle
of the meadow, not in the tree. It was like
in the middle of the middle. And so I grabbed
my phone and put the recorder on. I had planned
to have it already ready to go in case something
woke up. And by the time I turned it on,
this this loud hoover had moved across the meadow and
was still going, you know, and you know, I got
some of those sounds, and it sounds like, you know,
we we compare it to bar owls, but that's what
it sounds like. But they eventually the end of the
you know, some of the ends of the hooting kind
of trails off and it becomes something different, and then
that kept going on. Then we started hearing. I started
hearing things further away, you know, towards the North Moor
and then out behind our camp right then and so again,
after a little bit, I got those sounds on my iPhone.
You know, that was good. But the original, the one
that was ten yards away, I'm like, so I get out,
you know, I had my forty four, but I'm not
do I climb out of it standing outside here, you know,
But that was that was pretty you know, pretty freaky
to have something that close to you yelling that loud.
It was just a lot. It was tremendously loud.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know, I was awake, you know, I don't
know anybody.
Speaker 3: Can stuff too. It was, like David said, close, It
was not. When they started, they had been maybe a
quarter mile away where everything had started before. But now,
you know, I was probably twenty feet further from David,
so maybe I was fifty feet from where it started.
But something did answer it off to the north and
off to the area where I'd heard football football off
to our east. So anyway, one time the day before
we had been one of our hypes come up to
where an owl was up in a tree and it
was probably sixty feet up in the tree, and when
we got to within one hundred feet of it, it
took off. It didn't want to have anything to do
with us. And when it took those first four or
five wing flaps from one hundred feet away, you could
hear a whoosh, whoosh, whoosh. It you know, started to
get up the energy to fly. And like David said,
as this thing moved away from you know, right on
the meadow just outside his tent, to across the meadow,
there was no wing flap that occurred. I mean, whatever
had traveled across that fifty yards without that same noise
of the of the owl. So again, you know, we
didn't pick up any pictures or or or anything like
that on our game trails, but something got very close
to our tents and then you know, we go back
to bed the next but I didn't hear anything more
of the rest of the night. David's been listening to
his recordings and like you said, he's been comparing them
to bar owls, and they're similar, but they're definitely different
on his spectrum analysis. So you know, again that we're
these owls, I don't think so because it didn't fly away.
Owls don't typically run away, you know, and this spectrum
analysis is slightly different. But the next morning we want
both walked down towards the bathroom again and this little
road that led into the meadow had been scraped, you know,
out of the out of the forest, and it was
essentially hard pack and we could stomp on it even
on wet ground, and we wouldn't leave a footprint. But
David's one truck had left a track and where the
tired and it had chewed up a little bit of
a dirt and there was a about an eighteen inch
by six inch wet footprint right in.
Speaker 4: His tire track.
Speaker 3: And we hadn't seen it there before and it was wet. Wow,
it was not it was not a big indentation, nothing
you could could cast. It was just a wet footprint,
which made us think it was, you know, relatively recent.
And then we started searching around that area and that
footprint basically was right next to another tree break that
was about nine and a half feet off the ground. So,
you know, if you believe in tree breaks as being markers,
then this is potentially an area where whatever it was
was used to crossing that little road that went into
the meadow. You know, if not it was coincidental. But
now we've found two tree breaks in within about one
hundred and fifty yards, both of which seemed to mark
a trail or at least a place where something had
come out of the woods and crossed the road.
Speaker 1: The tree was alive, No, that that tree break. The
tree was alive. Wow. And so that the tree, you know,
the upper leaves and the break were turning yellow. They
weren't like being dead for very long. But the branches
below it, below the break, were still green.
Speaker 2: And you guys didn't notice the tree break prior to that, No, we.
Speaker 1: Hadn't seen that.
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean it wasn't.
Speaker 1: There, right, It was right that it was right by
that foot you know, way that track was.
Speaker 2: And was the track where was the track in relation
to the creek.
Speaker 1: It was in the same area where we had heard
that pack go.
Speaker 5: Through, so maybe one hundred feet.
Speaker 3: From the creek.
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably in the direction in the direction of the
road and then off to the main road towards the
main road. It was the same area where we had
heard that pack go through there. And the interesting was
is like, why is there only one track. There had
to be a huge, you know, stride in order to
get from across the road to that one area. It
just looked like a wet track. I think I sent
a picture of it and put my foot by it
to see how big it was. But it had to
be a huge stride to get across just by one step.
Speaker 2: Were the vocalizations each night, starting around the same time
and coming from the same general area.
Speaker 3: So the first night they started around midnight, and yet
they were coming from the same area that we had
heard that original hooting when I started up my airpump,
maybe across the creek maybe, you know, sounds are sometimes
hard to estimate distance, but I would say about a
quarter mile away. Then that first midnight and one o'clock
when I heard them before I fell asleep, they seemed
to come from the same area, but again we're answered
by something else to the north and the east. And
then that night when the hoops started about eleven thirty,
that first hoot was in that same direction. And you know,
one of the days, while we had nothing else to do,
we went off over that side of the creek and
we could not find a trail, and we were basically
bushwhacking it, and you know, I had my garment on
just we make sure we get back to camp. And yeah,
we were going slow and looking for things. But we
went a total of three quarters of a mile out
three quarters a mile back, and it took us over
two hours to travel across the creek, bushwhacking it over
deadfall and all these other things. And so that's the
only thing we could find up there. And then on
a map there are no trails up on that side
of the creek whatsoever. It's just as best we could
tell wilderness.
Speaker 2: Wow, my brain has just raised. I wonder if that's
just like a maybe a travel route that they're taking
that just happens to go through that meadow.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it has to be something, you know that's that
X has anything to do with it.
Speaker 3: As I said, Will Fulmer has a video specifically on
Campsite seventeen where he's had a lot of activity, and
that is probably a mile from Gypsy Meadows maybe, so
he's had a lot of activity right in the exact
same area. So you know, maybe it is a a
a roadway for him.
Speaker 2: Said to speak, Have you reached out to will about this?
Speaker 3: So I did send him a message on one of
his videos and I emailed him, and that was probably
three weeks ago. On his video. He kind of gave
my my comment a like, and in my email I
sent him basically what I had sent you are two
Facebook posts that kind of listed everything, and he has
not responded back to me, so I don't I have
not been in touch with him, but basically he's kind
of the reason we went to this area, just seeing
his videos online and we've had, you know, some similar experiences.
But as you may or may not remember, we weren't
quite done amazing. As amazing as it sounds, we weren't
done so that that day that he you know, we'd
seen the we'd heard the hoots the night before, seen
the wet footprint. Right around dinner time, we heard that hooting,
but this time it started behind us up the ridge,
not across the ridge, and all kind of let David
take over as to what happened after that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we were well, we were just relaxing in our hammocks,
you know, and all of a sudden, you know, as
the days had gone along, we start wondering, are these
hoots big foot? You know, because of everything that's been
going on all of a sudden, we hear this thing
and it was we heard just loud hoo going on,
just like I would estimate, only thirty yards up on
the ridge behind our camp, which is you think, is
that close, Curtis, Yeah.
Speaker 3: It was. It was closer than you know, it had
been from across across the creek by by far.
Speaker 1: So as soon we heard that we were in our hammocks,
we both we jumped out of Miami, let's go, and
we grabbed our guns, grabbed our gear, and we started
heading up that ridge in it. The call was coming
a little bit from where we're looking at towards our camp,
towards the main road. It was a little left to
where the X was. But we started going up this
ridge and you know, I grabbed my camera, my video
camera had it on. I'm saying, I was thinking, we
are close to something. We're going to see something right here.
And we started hiking up. We've gone up. We'd seen
some you know, deep inset footprints probably sixteen inches but
they're about four inches deep on this ridge that we
were going up there. And as we're going along, all
of a sudden, you know, we hear these three whoops.
It's like definite woo woo, you know, in a different direction.
And I turned to Curtis and said, I'm not getting distracted.
I'm not getting pulled away in a different direction. We're
going this direction, and but this is where we heard
where we were, but we felt like we were being
pulled in a different direction, you know, like something was
trying to distract us and pull us in a different thing.
And we kept going. We didn't We eventually didn't. We
didn't see anything that time. We were going really slow,
trying to you know, look in the area and film it.
And then my video camera battery started going going out,
and it was getting started getting dark, and we decided
to head back. We had got we'd gotten. We heard
the three loops were coming more from where we had
seen the X, you know, in that direction. But I
thought the wops were on the other side of the road,
you know that from where they do were.
Speaker 3: And before we turned back, David may you probably remember
these trying to say the direction we were heading, we
found another tree structure that I can only describe as
a teepee.
Speaker 4: Probably four or five twenty.
Speaker 3: Foot long sticks, branches, whatever you want to call them,
all coming together at their tips, just like a teepee
wood that you'd see in the movie, and that was
the direction that we'd heard the first call. And when
we saw that, and like David said, we now hear
the roofs, we decided to keep going towards the teepee
because we had seen that and we didn't. We sort
of made a pact on our drive up. You know,
we've seen people describe that they heard something, they'd go
one way and then they might hear a tree break
in another direction, like they were being distracted. So we
had made a sort of a pact that if we
hear something like that, and of course we never expected
to hear a distracting call, we would keep going. But
like David said, we didn't really find anything and went
back to our camp. Now is pretty much dark, and
you know, that night was pretty quiet. The next morning
we got up about oh seven point thirty or so,
he supped in and we both decided to walk down
to the bathroom. And like we said, this whole week,
there had been a guy in a trailer parked maybe
one hundred feet past the bathroom, sort of in the
last camping spots before he turned into the meadow. And
we had waved at him a few times, said hi
to him as we drove by or he was walking
his dog. We said hi, but we'd never really talked
to him. So David goes off to the bathroom and
I decided to walk out past his trailer up to
the main road. And you know, I'd always explored up
the road. I decided, while David's in the bathroom, I'm
going sort of down the road. And I went down
about one hundred yards. Didn't find any tree brakes or
any trails, so I kind of cut back into the
campground there and the rest of the campsites were completely empty.
And when I walked, I had walked past his trailer.
Initially he was inside, and now I came back to
his and he was outside, clearly looking around. And you know,
this time, instead of saying hi, like we'd said four
or five times before, his first words out of his
mouth were, hey, is your Is your buddy dressed all
in tan from head to toe? And I said no,
First of all, I think he's in blue. I was
trying to remember what David was wearing. I said, second
of all, black.
Speaker 1: Pants and my you know.
Speaker 3: I said, second of all, he's still in the bathroom,
and he said, well, I kind of saw you walk
up to the to the road out of one of
my windows, and I sat down, and about ten seconds
after I sat down, my dog is just at the door,
scratching and barking. So I get up, thinking that one
of you guys had kind of come into my campsite.
Which you know, like you said before, who's going to
throw pine cones? Who's going to walk.
Speaker 4: Into some guy's campsite uninvited? Yeah, that's Steven in the morning,
you know.
Speaker 3: So he said, I figured one of you guys were
in my campsite, and I said, no, I'm you know,
just coming back from my walk down the road.
Speaker 4: He said, well, when my dog was barking, I got
up and looked out the window.
Speaker 3: And something big and tan I just barely sought for
a second, walked from the creek area to across the road.
And again, you know, as I said before, where a
road hadn't been scraped or a campsite made, the forest
was very thick and you could just you know, when
you look into something, all you see is trees. And
he was only one hundred feet from the bathroom, and
when he stood at the bathroom. You couldn't see his trailer,
so what he had seen for a brief second was
tall and big, and David's six floor and two hundred
and fifty pounds. That's why he thought it was David
and I had walked from the creek area to across
the road. So David gets out of the bathroom and
we start looking around, and of course we find nothing,
and then we start we start talking to the guy
and asking him what he had heard the last few days,
and he was a second confirmation of David hearing all
that ruckus at the edge of the edge of the meadow,
even though he was a little further away than the
other campers, where he heard the same stuff happening in
the middle of the night, you know, some motion in
the woods, calls and stuff like that. And then he said,
you know, I've heard some weird things while i've been here.
I've heard knocks. I heard a tree get knocked over
off in in that wilderness area across the creek. And
he said, I think I just saw bigfoot. You know,
that's literally what he said.
Speaker 4: And I don't know how to dispute what he saw.
Speaker 3: We didn't see it. But there was no one else
in any of the other campgrounds. And again this is
o'clock in the morning, you know, coming from the wilderness
across the creek and walking up to the road to
that other area up the ridge where we had seen
a broken tree before. So you know, we didn't see
anything again but this guy. And when we were not
trying to talk him into bigfoot, he kind of came
to that conclusion himself that he thinks, for a second
or two he might have seen a big foot because
it was ten he said, from head to toe.
Speaker 2: I mean, what else could it have been? You know, Yeah,
he knew what he saw. That's why he was hoping
that you'd be like, oh, yeah, my friend's out here
wearing a hooded sweatsuit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, a tan jumpsuit from the head to.
Speaker 3: So that, you know, we were kind of getting ready
to leave the next day, and that late afternoon David
kind of had a thought remembering back to what we
had found in California. And I'll kind of let him
say what he was thinking and what we eventually found
up there.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, that day before when we had chased that
that the thing I'm coming back. I had noticed a
wet area, a marsh area off to the right boards
of direction where we've seen the X, and I had
just noted it in my head. And last day I
told Curtis, say, hey, I want to go up and
explore that marsh area again, just another track trap and
see what we can find. And so I didn't want
to leave without doing that. And so we go. We
go walking up there. We come into the marsh and
know and behold, I walked, I take it, come around
a corner and I see these two footprints right in
the mud. And I go, look at that. And we
go over there and actually this time we had measuring
tapes and things like that. I got to stick and
mark them and measure them. When we got back where
you know, our truck. But we found two footprints again.
I measured them sixteen and a half inches long, and
the stride was forty eight inches a stride with the
you know, the step step link of forty eight inches
to fifty two inches. And we started looking back behind
it in line, and we noticed in the wet wet
area where of that mars, we could see definite foot
step disturbances, you know, because there's like you know, the
the needles of the tree all fall in the water
and they're all, you know, the whole place, all the
water is covered with these needles except for where these
footprints landed, and it's all disturbed and cleared up, and
you could see that. And they're all about the same
stride length and going out, and I said, look at that,
there's one there, and we go back the same distance,
there's another one. So you start, you know, when you
start looking for the next track, you want to look
at the same distance and see where you're you know,
that's where you're start looking for evidence and stuff. And
we backed up, we about five different steps so we
could identify disturbances in that wet you know, water area.
Then it comes into the mud where left that you know,
first footprint we saw that we could see toes on
and then the second one was forty eight to fifty two.
And then we started walking further back in that same
line and we found another one in another smaller wet area,
going up a little incline that looked like we measured
it again. It was sixteen and a half inches long.
And that one we could definitely see toes in the
ferns and things like that. So that was an exciting
way to enter. You know, in our search at that Dame,
we took pictures of all that and stuff, so that
was kind of exciting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And the interesting thing that one that was about
one hundred feet behind was in the exact line of
a progression of those other four And although they were
wet and we couldn't cast them, there was definitely a
print that you could see toes and you know, it
was sixteen and a half inches long. As David said,
we both wear size thirteen. I've measured my foot it's
eleven and a half inches, just about or just above
eleven and a half inches. Even with my shoe it's
only thirteen thirteen and a half inches. And so you know,
we like to we've been pretty lucky on our trips.
But we've gone into all these trips, like I said,
at least trying to rule out the possibility that these
could all be human events. And that's sort of what
science is all based on. They call it the null hypothesis.
You know, you try to rule out that it could
have happened randomly. Well, in this case, it's not a
science experiment, but we tried to rule out whether they
could or could not have been human. So when we
got back civilization, I kind of looked up, you know what,
what is a sixteen and a half footprint or sixte
and a half inch footprint, And that's basically Shaquille o'nill's foot.
His foot is sixteen and a half inches and he
wears a size twenty two shoe. And I then start looking.
Speaker 4: You know, now I'm going down a rabbit hole.
Speaker 3: Is trying to figure out how cammon this would be,
you know, barefoot, barefoot guy seven foot tall walking in
the middle of the forest. Well, I find out that,
you know, to be seven foot tall or above, it's
only one person in two hundred and sixty thousand people.
You know, it's very very rare. And then I said, well,
you know how many people have world class speed? You know,
to travel one hundred and fifty yards in fifteen seconds.
And that's not even on the flat that's in the
dark across you know, basically bushwacking and across the land,
but even on a flat track. I googled you know
how many people have world class speed? And Google couldn't
answer it, but it said it is by far much
less than one percent. So you know, if you take
the one in two hundred and sixty thousand and say
it's maybe a half percent chance that a person could
run in world class speed.
Speaker 4: Now you're talking one in five million chants.
Speaker 3: That you know, a seven foot tall person could run
a world class speed. And then you start thinking, like
I said, in the dark, no flashlight, in forty degree weather,
in a light rain, barefoot across you know, across terrain.
Speaker 1: That's just impossible.
Speaker 3: For a human. When we as scientists in medicine, when
we look at two forms of treatment and try to
figure out which one is better for a certain disease
these or a certain entity, they study patients and they
put them in one group, and they study maybe a
different medicine and a different group. If there is less
than a five percent chance that that could have happened
randomly in science, that is considered statistically significant. In other words,
there's a ninety five percent chance that that did not
occur randomly. You change your medical treatment just based on
a on a five percent chance. And here we have
odds that even there was a person in the middle
of the forest at much much less than one in
five million. So then I start going to like I said,
going down the rabbit hole, knowing that in orthopedics we
have data analysis studies, and I start looking at stride
length or step lean and even at Shaquille O'Neill's height
is average walking, you know, from one heel of the
right foot to the left heel, the middle of the
left foot in one normal step is just under thirty
six inches. So then I.
Speaker 4: Then and extrapolate from that.
Speaker 3: Well, what does a forty eight inch stride or step
length mean? And if you use that same equation and
go backwards, that means if it was a human, they
were nine feet six inches tall if it was a human.
So then I started looking up, are there even you know,
what's who's the tallest human in the world? And the
tallest person known in recorded time was eighteen eleven inches
and he died in nineteen forty And the current tallest
person alive lives in Turkey and he's eight foot three inches.
So you know, to have something with a stride length
that equals nine eat six inches in height doing all
that stuff that we just described as signed is even
though we haven't seen Bigfoot and we haven't taken a
picture of Bigfoot, I think David and I are now,
even though I was skeptical before our California trip, I
think we're in the camp that Bigfoot was there, both
in California and Washington. It's just that, you know, there's
still the hide and Seek champions of the world and
haven't completely been found. We have no other conclusion. I mean,
the science, you know, just points to that there's no
other no other thing that could have.
Speaker 4: Done all the things that.
Speaker 3: That we experienced, even though we did not see a bigfoot.
Speaker 2: I think you would also be fairly safe to say,
I mean, even with your statistics, whenever a human reaches
a certain height threshold, their athletic ability actually starts to decline.
I mean, I can't imagine, you know that the guy
that you were talking about, who is the world's tallest
man that passed away in the forties or whatever, he
definitely was not running, let alone at world class speed.
He was barely able to walk, you know, So.
Speaker 3: There's no doubt. And that's that's often why you know,
those tall guys often have very short NBA careers. I mean,
Bill Walton started having bad foot problems he was six
or eleven, and he was a great center for like
his first three years playing in the NBA, and then
he was a decent, you know, off the bench player
for eight or nine years, but his feet gave out.
He was not the same athlete after you know, two
or three years of pounding in the NBA at the
end of his career than he was at the beginning.
So you're right. I don't see if it was a
human that they could run one hundred and fifty yards
in world class speed.
Speaker 2: That's just crazy. You guys really hit the jackpot. Do
you do you have any plans of going back to
that location?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think we. Uh, we got asked to come
up in video, do a video recording and tell our
story in the spring, So I think we're playing them
going up there in the spring. And you know that
was Jonathan Jonathan jonathans us to come up and do that.
Speaker 2: Okay, well, yeah, I look forward to that. Any plans
to go on any more outings at different locations, Yeah,
we are.
Speaker 1: I think we're hooked.
Speaker 3: Nothing nothing in the book, nothing in the books, but
we're you know, I can't imagine they will be as
good or exciting of an experience of our first two trips.
But even if they're not, Like I said, we kind
of went into this just go camping with our best friend,
and I think in a way we were lucky and
blasted to have found what we found.
Speaker 2: Well, guys, I appreciate you coming on here and sharing
your experiences and your stories and uh yeah, if you
have any more, please feel free to reach out to me.
I'd love to hear about it. Oh yeah, absolutely. If
you've had an encounter with Bigfoot or something else un explaining,
you'd like to share your story on Bigfoot Crossroads, email
me at Bigfoot Crossroads at gmail dot com. Check out
the website Bigfootcrossroads dot com. You can find links to
social media, past episodes, merchandise, everything you need all in
one place. And until next time, remember there's something in
the woods.