Speaker 1: Oh there, m H.
Speaker 2: Trigger warn this podcast may include explicit content that will
Speaker 2: take you out of your comfort zone and make you
Speaker 2: question reality.
Speaker 3: Listener's discretion is advised.
Speaker 4: Hello, and welcome back to the second installment of the
Speaker 4: Conspira Asylum series. This is Schitzopharmiac and I'm really excited
Speaker 4: for this one. I have a lot of loose ins
Speaker 4: to tie up from the first episode, and of course
Speaker 4: we have Colby joining us for the second installment.
Speaker 3: Colby, how are you wonderfully insane? In the membrane in
Speaker 3: the everywhere?
Speaker 4: So something that I wanted to talk about really quick
Speaker 4: as we're getting going is something I want I was
Speaker 4: gonna include in the first episode, but we ran out
Speaker 4: of time because we went almost three hours. Notorious Asylums?
Speaker 4: Did you have anything on that just that just I'm
Speaker 4: gonna run through it just kind of quick.
Speaker 5: But I had some weird insane asylums that were notorious
Speaker 5: for reasons. One of them sounded an awful lot like
Speaker 5: a Mexican food restaurant. And I don't think I brought
Speaker 5: my notes with me from last week, so I don't
Speaker 5: even remember what.
Speaker 3: It was called.
Speaker 4: Was it noteworthy?
Speaker 5: It was just where you know, they the evidence left
Speaker 5: behind and the stories and the mainstream trying to pull
Speaker 5: cover saying that these places were you know, above board
Speaker 5: and it was shit going on like in American Horror
Speaker 5: Story season two, and you know, we'll get into some
Speaker 5: of those today, I imagine, But yeah, I don't remember
Speaker 5: what mne were.
Speaker 4: Well, I have a couple that you can say if
Speaker 4: you've heard of them or not. Had you heard of
Speaker 4: the Bedlom Bedlom Royal Hospital in.
Speaker 3: London in England sounds vaguely familiar.
Speaker 4: It's Europe's oldest insane asylum, founded in twelve forty seven.
Speaker 4: So it was one of the places that used that
Speaker 4: spinny chair treatment that you showed in the last episode,
Speaker 4: where they'd put somebody in the spinny chair and spin
Speaker 4: them until they threw up or shit themselves.
Speaker 3: Really, that's probably why it sounds familiar.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they did that. Then there's the trans Alleghany
Speaker 4: Lunatic Asylum in West Virginia. This place is notorious for
Speaker 4: ghost hunter groups going because they say with the lobotomies
Speaker 4: and the poor care of the patients and all the
Speaker 4: deaths and the weird stuff, that it's like super haunted.
Speaker 4: And they even offer paranormal tours at this place. But
Speaker 4: the one that stuck out to me the most that's
Speaker 4: now closed down was Willowbrook State School is what it
Speaker 4: was called. And this guy, his name is Geraldo Rivera.
Speaker 3: But you know who he is.
Speaker 4: He was you know who a journalist.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's the guy with the mustache. Yeah, you know
Speaker 3: who he is, right right? Oh, I just the way
Speaker 3: you said it, I thought you didn't know who he was.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm just saying for anybody who doesn't know who
Speaker 4: he is.
Speaker 5: I mean he's pretty notorious. His takes on a lot
Speaker 5: of the big events.
Speaker 4: Well, this was back in nineteen seventy two. He looked
Speaker 4: like he was just starting.
Speaker 5: Out, Yeah, the early seventies. I didn't know he was
Speaker 5: around that long.
Speaker 4: Yeah. So this was back in nineteen seventy two, and
Speaker 4: he actually found the story about the Willow State School
Speaker 4: because Robert Kennedy went on the news talking about how
Speaker 4: awful it was and how somebody needed to do something
Speaker 4: and nobody ever did anything about it. And then Heraldo
Speaker 4: Rivera was like, somebody needs to publish a story about
Speaker 4: how these people are getting treated.
Speaker 5: And I wonder if that was the place that his
Speaker 5: sister went to.
Speaker 4: Is it?
Speaker 3: Where was it?
Speaker 6: Uh?
Speaker 4: New York?
Speaker 3: What's it called?
Speaker 4: Willowbrook Asylum, New York?
Speaker 3: I think that might be it is?
Speaker 4: Do you think that's how that's why he was so
Speaker 4: at it.
Speaker 5: As soon as you mentioned Robert Kennedy, my Hackles went up,
Speaker 5: let me verify where she went?
Speaker 4: Well? He went he yeah, he went on the news
Speaker 4: and he was like, somebody needs to do something. These
Speaker 4: people are getting treated like literal garbage. Yeah, the thing
Speaker 4: and I actually somewhere around here want to include a
Speaker 4: clip of Heraldo Rivera touring Willowbrooks State School because.
Speaker 3: It's everything let's call the State School.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's everything that you would imagine an insane asylum
Speaker 4: in a horror.
Speaker 3: Movie to be Why did they call it a.
Speaker 4: School Because they let people drop their kids off there
Speaker 4: and never come back for them. And they said that
Speaker 4: they were going to train them like monkeys to.
Speaker 7: Do like.
Speaker 4: Basic like self care stuff, but they never did what
Speaker 4: they like, how to feed themselves, how to like xyz,
Speaker 4: but they never did. They basically people would just drop
Speaker 4: their family members off and they were.
Speaker 3: Naked, dropped off naked, No okay, they.
Speaker 4: Would go back to visit them and all the inmates,
Speaker 4: patients whatever, anywhere from newborn to old as fuck.
Speaker 3: In particular.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they would be sitting around in the wards naked,
Speaker 4: getting force fed.
Speaker 3: So it's like a food in their mouths. It's like
Speaker 3: a zoo.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And they were shitting and pissing everywhere, throwing shit and
Speaker 4: piss everywhere.
Speaker 3: And it sounds like an exhibit right.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm going to include a little snippet of when
Speaker 4: Heraldo Rivera wentz Ago visit this place.
Speaker 9: I visited the state institutions for the mentally retarded, and
Speaker 9: I think, particularly at Willowbrook, that we have a situation
Speaker 9: that borders on a state pit and that the children
Speaker 9: live and built, that many of our fellow citizens are
Speaker 9: suffering tremendously because lack of attention, had a lack of imagination,
Speaker 9: lack of adequate manpower, a very little future for the
Speaker 9: children or for those who are in these institutions. Both
Speaker 9: need a tremendous overhauling. I'm not saying that those who
Speaker 9: are the attendants there, are the ones that run the institution,
Speaker 9: are at fall. I think all of us are at Paul,
Speaker 9: and I think it's just it's long overdue that something
Speaker 9: be done about it.
Speaker 10: It's been more than six years since Robert Kennedy walked
Speaker 10: out of one of the wards here at Willowbrook and
Speaker 10: told newsmen of the horror he'd seen inside. He pleaded
Speaker 10: then for an overhaul of a system that allowed retarded
Speaker 10: children to live in a snake pit. But that was
Speaker 10: way back in nineteen sixty five, and somehow we'd all forgotten.
Speaker 10: I first heard of this big place with the pretty
Speaker 10: sounding name because of a call I received from a
Speaker 10: member of the Willow Brooks staff, doctor Michael Wilkins. The
Speaker 10: doctor told me he'd just been fired because he'd been
Speaker 10: urging parents with children in one of the buildings, building
Speaker 10: number six, to organize so they could more effectively demand
Speaker 10: improve conditions for their children. The doctor invited me to
Speaker 10: see the conditions he was talking about, so, unannounced and
Speaker 10: unexpected by the school administration, we toured Building number six.
Speaker 10: The doctor had warned me that it would be bad.
Speaker 7: It was horrible.
Speaker 10: There was one attendant for perhaps fifty severely and profoundly
Speaker 10: retarded children, and the children lying on the floor naked
Speaker 10: and smeared with their own feces. They were making a
Speaker 10: pitiful sound, the kind of mournful wail that it's impossible
Speaker 10: for me to forget.
Speaker 11: This is what it looked like, this is what.
Speaker 10: It sounded like. But how can I tell you about
Speaker 10: the way it smelled. It smelled of filth, it smelled
Speaker 10: of disease, and it smelled of death. We've just seen
Speaker 10: something that's probably the most horrible thing I've ever seen
Speaker 10: in my life.
Speaker 3: It's that typical of ward life.
Speaker 12: Yes, there are five thsy three hundred patients at Willowbrook,
Speaker 12: which is the largest institution for the mentally retarded in
Speaker 12: the world. The ones that we saw were the most
Speaker 12: severely and profoundly retarded. There are thousands there like that,
Speaker 12: not going to school, sitting on the ward all day,
Speaker 12: not being talked to by anyone, Only one or two
Speaker 12: or three people to take care of. Seventy people on
Speaker 12: the ward sharing the same toilet, contracting the same diseases together.
Speaker 12: One hundred percent of patients at Wilillbrook contract hepatitis within
Speaker 12: six months of being in the institution. The most patients
Speaker 12: at some time in their life have paracized the incidents
Speaker 12: of pneumonia's and is greater than any other group of
Speaker 12: people that I think exist in this country. Trauma is
Speaker 12: severe because these patients are left together on a ward
Speaker 12: seventy retarded people, basically unattended, fighting for a small scrap
Speaker 12: of paper on the floor to play with, fighting for
Speaker 12: the attention of the attendants who are overworked trying to
Speaker 12: clean them, feed them, clothe them, and if possible, pay
Speaker 12: little attention to them and work with them develop their intelligence.
Speaker 12: But what in fact happens is that they go downhill.
Speaker 4: If your kid had Down syndrome, if they were just
Speaker 4: developmentally disabled, if they were schizophrenic, if they were whatever,
Speaker 4: anything outside of just normal, you could take them and
Speaker 4: drop them off that willow broke for them to run
Speaker 4: around naked, sleeping, piss and shit. And it showed feeding
Speaker 4: time with the nurses and they would just be strapped
Speaker 4: to a chair with their mouth pried open and they
Speaker 4: would just shovel food and they'd be choking and gagging
Speaker 4: on it, and it looked like.
Speaker 3: No, wonder you didn't just give them like a tube
Speaker 3: down the throat.
Speaker 4: I mean, they had one nurse for every fifty patients
Speaker 4: or something like that, So you can imagine how.
Speaker 5: The clean in the Yeah, I'm going to actually talk
Speaker 5: about that's how it was really similar still in the nineties.
Speaker 4: Even that's not I mean, one nurse for fifty patients,
Speaker 4: that's not enough. Yeah, And so this is where we've
Speaker 4: come to though, that that's in the seventies. But I mean,
Speaker 4: as we talked about in the first episode, like how
Speaker 4: did we get here, Well, these people are looked at
Speaker 4: as garbage people. These are the trash people. These are
Speaker 4: the people you just throw away and you just keep
Speaker 4: them alive mechanically. But there is no spiritual there is
Speaker 4: no I mean, they're literally treated like garbage people.
Speaker 5: Yeah, there's no humanity or compassion. And even when someone
Speaker 5: with humanity or compassion gets into the system like that
Speaker 5: as a job, a lot of them just burn out
Speaker 5: like teachers do and become peace is a shit, or
Speaker 5: they struggle with it.
Speaker 3: They become you know, nightly drinkers and they don't live
Speaker 3: a fulfilled life, yeah, or they quit. You know, there's
Speaker 3: no way that you.
Speaker 5: Can bring compassionate humanity into a system that's as broken
Speaker 5: as this one is without completely overhauling it, which we
Speaker 5: don't seem to even have in our list of priorities
Speaker 5: as far as politics goes. You know, that's that's where
Speaker 5: people look for big change to happen, and it's such
Speaker 5: a big industry that to do away with it it
Speaker 5: would just affect all the wrong people in the wrong ways.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: And the fact that they said, like they use the
Speaker 4: word training, like, oh, if you drop your kid off here,
Speaker 4: we'll train them how to Yeah.
Speaker 5: The language is like how you talk about animals, the
Speaker 5: walking around nked, shitting and pissing wherever.
Speaker 4: Yeah, literally treated like an I mean they animals are
Speaker 4: sometimes treated I was.
Speaker 3: Going to say, Yeah. And also prisoners.
Speaker 5: You talk to a lot of people who have been
Speaker 5: in both, and what we'll talk about next episode. A
Speaker 5: lot with the pop culture angle of all of this
Speaker 5: is in the movie and book One Flew Over the
Speaker 5: Cuckoo's Nest, the protagonist believes that if he feigns insanity
Speaker 5: that he'll be able to have a cakewalk in an
Speaker 5: institution somewhere, and he finds that it's worse the hard.
Speaker 5: Through the hard way of finding out such a thing,
Speaker 5: he discovers that a lot of these places are prison
Speaker 5: times a thousand and Yeah, we'll talk more about that
Speaker 5: angle of it next time.
Speaker 4: Well, the last asylum I wanted to talk to you about.
Speaker 4: I it came into my memory because of the article
Speaker 4: you read in the last episode about the African guy
Speaker 4: who came over and he said that the way that
Speaker 4: we view mental illness is totally fucked up and wrong,
Speaker 4: and that like spirits are trying to channel through these
Speaker 4: people because they're healers or something like that, or they
Speaker 4: have a message or they have So I wanted to
Speaker 4: read you this story really quick. I'll try to sum
Speaker 4: it up as quick as I can to just move
Speaker 4: on from this part. But it's called the Voltaira asylum
Speaker 4: in Tuscany, Italy, and it was built in eighteen eighty eight,
Speaker 4: the same year Jack the Ripper was ripped and running
Speaker 4: through wherever the fuck he was. That's how old it is,
Speaker 4: though he was in London. Well, let me tell you
Speaker 4: a little bit about the asylum before I get to
Speaker 4: the patient. So this place accommodated six thousand patients at
Speaker 4: a time, so it was huge, and it was like
Speaker 4: the Willowbrooks School. They only have like one nurse.
Speaker 3: For every like one hundred dec They called themselves a school.
Speaker 4: No, they they called themselves an asylum.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that rebranding seems totally American, right.
Speaker 4: So it was built on the ruins of several tombs
Speaker 4: and was a known sight of hangings in witchcraft, and
Speaker 4: they cleared all that out and then they built this
Speaker 4: asylum on top of this site. And the most famous
Speaker 4: doctor who practiced there was actually a Nazi concentration camp
Speaker 4: doctor who was found guilty of crimes against humanity, uh,
Speaker 4: doctor Shilling or something like that. And so you can
Speaker 4: imagine with his backstory what kind of experiments were going
Speaker 4: on at.
Speaker 5: This So was okay, wait a minute, so that would
Speaker 5: have been a ways into it, because you said it
Speaker 5: was built in eighteen eighty eight. Yeah, so this guy
Speaker 5: was this guy this So now we're into like after
Speaker 5: World War two. Yeah, okay, doctor Shilling. I want to
Speaker 5: keep talking. I want to just kind of look them.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, go ahead. It's s h I l ll
Speaker 4: no C. Yeah. I think his first name was maybe Ralph.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but.
Speaker 3: Ralph Shilling sounds like a shoe brand.
Speaker 4: So there was a patient who they had, because they
Speaker 4: had thousands of patients, they stopped calling them by their
Speaker 4: name and they gave them numbers.
Speaker 5: And so this paper or animalistic treatment, like right tagging
Speaker 5: him with fucking you know, in the ear, like their cattle.
Speaker 3: So now do you think they tattooed him? Since he
Speaker 3: was a Nazi.
Speaker 5: Guy, he might have incorporated what's it called, uh, Walnut.
Speaker 4: Creek, Voltaire Asylum, Klaus Slause Shilling.
Speaker 5: That's fucking that's the fish American dad.
Speaker 3: I think it's him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's him.
Speaker 3: No, do you think that's who it's supposed to be
Speaker 3: an American dad?
Speaker 4: Oh?
Speaker 5: I don't know, yeah, because I always got the impression
Speaker 5: that that was an operation paper clip thing they transferred
Speaker 5: to the Nazi's brain into a goldfish.
Speaker 4: So maybe he's got the accent.
Speaker 3: Well yeah, anyway, but yeah, that's him.
Speaker 13: Yeah.
Speaker 5: It says he perpetrated infamous human experiments at Doc Cow.
Speaker 3: Yep, it's a dust shower. Doc Cow, I always.
Speaker 4: Say Doc Cow. But that's the doc on staff for
Speaker 4: the Voltaire Asylum.
Speaker 3: And I was wondering if he was a paper clip
Speaker 3: guy himself.
Speaker 4: Because no, he got tried. Do you think he got death?
Speaker 3: So he got tried?
Speaker 5: So when did he participate in the stuff at the
Speaker 5: asylum after the war?
Speaker 4: I think it was right after and then they found
Speaker 4: him and then they prosecuted him.
Speaker 5: Anyway, I just wanted to do paper clip and see
Speaker 5: what comes up, because that would be interesting.
Speaker 3: Says he wasn't a member of the Nazi birdy.
Speaker 4: He was in the documentary that I watched, said he
Speaker 4: got death.
Speaker 3: Could it be that he was just working with him?
Speaker 3: M m, well, we don't want to go down this
Speaker 3: rabbit hole.
Speaker 5: Looks like there's a lot on this guy anyway, that's interesting.
Speaker 5: So he goes from the war to working here to
Speaker 5: getting snagged and tried for war crabs.
Speaker 3: Yeah, put to death.
Speaker 5: Yeah, fuck man, that's rare to hear if he'd been
Speaker 5: working over here.
Speaker 4: But the thing he would have lived, he's actually not
Speaker 4: even the highlight of this story. He's like a side note,
Speaker 4: but I mention it because he was doing experiments there, right.
Speaker 4: And so this patient who only went by nof four,
Speaker 4: they later found out his real name was Fernando Nanetti.
Speaker 3: There was something in the night.
Speaker 4: So this guy, it's so sad too, because this Fernando
Speaker 4: guy was abandoned by his mother at age seven.
Speaker 3: She has dropped him off at the asylum.
Speaker 4: Not at this one, just a random one, and he
Speaker 4: was institutionalized the rest of his life because he had
Speaker 4: nowhere else to go. He had no mental illness to
Speaker 4: speak of. And he was transferred to Volterra Asylum in
Speaker 4: nineteen fifty eight as an adult, and after he got
Speaker 4: transferred to Volterra, his behavior drastically changed into what some
Speaker 4: of the nurses referred to as supernatural. He lost his
Speaker 4: ability to speak, and he began using his belt to
Speaker 4: carve words, symbols, and drawings into the walls of the
Speaker 4: asylum courtyard, and over the course of ten years, he
Speaker 4: eventually ended up covering the span of two football fields
Speaker 4: with these cars. And in these carvings he predicted the
Speaker 4: invention of the cell phone as well as the moon landing.
Speaker 4: And he also carved intricate details of TVs and complex
Speaker 4: electrical systems for like computer software into the walls of
Speaker 4: this asylum.
Speaker 5: So they were doing something with this kid.
Speaker 4: Well, he was an adult when he got trans transfer.
Speaker 5: I was going to ask if you knew because you
Speaker 5: said nineteen fifty eight. I don't know if you said
Speaker 5: the year when his mom dropped him off when he
Speaker 5: was seven.
Speaker 4: He was seven when he got drped.
Speaker 5: No, so he's an adult and he's writing it's it's
Speaker 5: almost like a but he would you could make like
Speaker 5: a series.
Speaker 3: About this guy, like stranger things type shit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but the nurses said when he got there he
Speaker 4: was completely normal, and then over time like he lost
Speaker 4: his ability to speak, and then he started trying to
Speaker 4: communicate through these drugs.
Speaker 5: Maybe this is just me spit volume here. Maybe they
Speaker 5: were testing all these vaccines on him and they made him.
Speaker 3: Autistics Nazi doctor working, right, That's why I'm saying that.
Speaker 5: And then he becomes like this clairvoyant, fucking autistic guy
Speaker 5: making all these note nostrodamis type modern predictions.
Speaker 4: So right before he died, NF four said that when
Speaker 4: he arrived at the asylum, he was given the ability
Speaker 4: to telepathically communicate with an entity that was connected to
Speaker 4: the asylum grounds.
Speaker 5: All right, I just does a side note. We should
Speaker 5: do a whole episode on this guy.
Speaker 4: But the article you read in the last episode about
Speaker 4: how these entities or whatever trying to channel through these people,
Speaker 4: this guy didn't even have mental illness. He got transferred
Speaker 4: to this place. They probably started doing experiments and got in.
Speaker 5: They then induced some kind of psychosis or autism.
Speaker 3: It might sound like he went nonverbal.
Speaker 4: Yeah, wow, he got it down four days off from
Speaker 4: the moon landing.
Speaker 5: The most important question is did he predict that it
Speaker 5: was fake?
Speaker 4: No, But he also he wrote about cell phones and
Speaker 4: stuff too.
Speaker 5: But he got nineteen he said, he said we're going
Speaker 5: to land on the Moon and such and such in
Speaker 5: nineteen sixty nine. Yeah, and then this was in the
Speaker 5: late fifties, so he was like a decade. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 5: they hadn't even announced politically that they were going to
Speaker 5: do a space race and putting him in on I
Speaker 5: mean that was so this was nineteen fifty eight that
Speaker 5: he did this.
Speaker 4: He started in nineteen fifty eight. It took him ten.
Speaker 5: Years, okis so then he would so then he would
Speaker 5: have been from fifty eight to sixty eight. I wonder
Speaker 5: at what point in there he wrote about.
Speaker 3: The moon landing.
Speaker 4: There is a lot of information you can find about
Speaker 4: this guy, because since the asylum closed, they removed large
Speaker 4: chunks of the walls where nf were carved these images,
Speaker 4: and they're all in a museum somewhere and that's it's
Speaker 4: a suseum in Italy.
Speaker 3: That's not like Smithsonian, they said.
Speaker 4: They so they took these big chunks of the wall out,
Speaker 4: they put them in a museum.
Speaker 14: They said, this is just artwork, but it happens to
Speaker 14: be prophetic, right, so he is like modern hieroglyphs.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: Well, he also spoke about and the nurses would just say, oh,
Speaker 4: he's been in here so long, he's crazy now. But
Speaker 4: he would say that the asylum was a portal for
Speaker 4: shadow people and that they were coming in and out.
Speaker 3: So he said that before he went no, no, he.
Speaker 4: Would write it and he would try to communicate with
Speaker 4: the nurses, and uh, you can find all of this
Speaker 4: stuff if you google this guy's name. His name is
Speaker 4: again Fernando or sty Nanetti, and so he went by
Speaker 4: n o F four. You could probably google it, just
Speaker 4: Volterra Asylum n o F four. You'll find pictures of him.
Speaker 4: You'll find pictures of the carvings.
Speaker 5: You'll find that you need to the guy who made
Speaker 5: Archie Archive eighty one.
Speaker 3: Uh huh, he needs to.
Speaker 5: Make an NF four series and just have it be
Speaker 5: about this guy.
Speaker 4: I randomly came across this in an episode of a
Speaker 4: show I was watching. And when you read that article,
Speaker 4: and do you.
Speaker 3: Want to admit everybody to everybody what show it was?
Speaker 4: It's a spin off of Ghost Adventures.
Speaker 5: As if Ghost Adventures needs to spin off, they.
Speaker 3: Apparently have one. What's what's the show called.
Speaker 4: It's called Destinations of the Damned, and it's about haunted
Speaker 4: locations all over the world, not just in the US.
Speaker 3: So how is that different than ghost Adventures.
Speaker 4: He doesn't actually go to the location. He sends archaeologists
Speaker 4: and he sends like.
Speaker 3: Oh boy, he's moving on up.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so Zach, he sent like people to go and
Speaker 4: look at these.
Speaker 5: Do you think he's do you think even though he's
Speaker 5: coordinating it from afar, he.
Speaker 3: Still gets my next burning Probably.
Speaker 5: He's zoom calling with the correspondence on your ound.
Speaker 4: It's not an interesting story, but yeah, I want to
Speaker 4: do a whole episode on it. Yeah, it could have
Speaker 4: its own episode. But you read the article at joggby
Speaker 4: Memory about this guy being prophetic as fuck. He didn't
Speaker 4: have mental illness. They moved into this place.
Speaker 3: Where man, you'll come to find many of them.
Speaker 4: Do not, right. But so that is my sum up
Speaker 4: of the asylent portion of this episode, because I do
Speaker 4: want to get into some pharmaceuticals and it's psychiatry and stuff.
Speaker 5: I'm glad you're covering the pharmaceuticle angle of it, because
Speaker 5: I'm not.
Speaker 4: I have quite a few notes on the pharmaceutical aspect.
Speaker 3: Good, So where do you want to start?
Speaker 4: Do you want me to run through the pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 5: First, Well, I think we should, because, for example, maybe
Speaker 5: you'll mention this prozac became a big thing.
Speaker 3: In what the seventies or eighties? Yeah, so which one
Speaker 3: is it?
Speaker 4: My eighties?
Speaker 3: Eighties?
Speaker 5: But I mean, I think the eighties in general were
Speaker 5: a huge fucking decade for the pharmaceutical industry.
Speaker 4: And it bled over big time into the nineties.
Speaker 15: With the.
Speaker 3: Commodifying fucking depression.
Speaker 4: And yeah, it's started to become like a like a
Speaker 4: we can take the pharmaceuticals and mix match them with
Speaker 4: the Laurel camps as I like to call them. And
Speaker 4: obviously we're going to talk about psychiatry and how it's
Speaker 4: escalated from there. But before we do that, I kind
Speaker 4: of wanted to just talk about briefly the origins of
Speaker 4: some of these big name pharmaceuticals that are still in
Speaker 4: use today that I feel like, are it's utterly insane
Speaker 4: that anybody puts this shit into their bodies. Utterly insane.
Speaker 4: So the first drug specifically targeted for mental illness was lithium, right,
Speaker 4: and it was used by psychiatrists in the eighteen seventies lithium.
Speaker 4: But you know where they get you is the lithium
Speaker 4: that's available for prescription now is not the lithium that
Speaker 4: they were using in eighteen seven.
Speaker 5: Say your great granddaddy's lithium. So so are you saying
Speaker 5: it was better to have the old lithium?
Speaker 4: Yeah, because actually, long before modern medicine, Roman physicians recognized
Speaker 4: the therapeutic effects of natural spring water that was high
Speaker 4: in lithium. Content.
Speaker 5: Tell you right now as a side note, I haven't
Speaker 5: shown you this, but you know the downtown.
Speaker 3: Square of Ashland. Yeah, there's a fucking.
Speaker 5: Drinking fountain that comes out of Lithia Creek that runs
Speaker 5: through Ashland, and this is like it tastes like bubbly.
Speaker 3: Ocean water and people go high in lithium. Yeah, people
Speaker 3: go there and drink it.
Speaker 4: That's the lithium that they were using to treat people.
Speaker 3: So there's just using from natural sources.
Speaker 4: Natural spring water that was high in lithium. The lithium
Speaker 4: that's prescribed to people today is some kind of petroleum
Speaker 4: synthetic grosser.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it all is now. Yeah, they synthesized it and
Speaker 3: they they.
Speaker 4: Turned it into petrochemical. So of course other than lithium,
Speaker 4: they would use like thor zine and shit like that,
Speaker 4: because you can't be crazy if you just constantly knocked
Speaker 4: the fuck out basically. But something that I wanted to
Speaker 4: address is that most of the modern day antidepressants that
Speaker 4: the doctors will put you on, the active ingredient is fluoride.
Speaker 5: Right, especially Prozac, yes, which I don't think they really
Speaker 5: use anymore. I think they phased out to these more
Speaker 5: modernized SSRIs.
Speaker 4: You're still gonna find docs out there who want them.
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, I know, I know it's not completely discontinued,
Speaker 5: but I think.
Speaker 4: It's the My mom took it for years, proses zach.
Speaker 4: Do you know what the generic name for prozac is?
Speaker 4: Fluoxetine as in fluoride. Fluoride oxcene is the generic name
Speaker 4: for prozac. I mean, if you think you're getting away
Speaker 4: from fluoride by taking other SSRI's like lexapro, think again,
Speaker 4: because one of the number one active ingredients in lexapro
Speaker 4: is fluoride.
Speaker 5: I was just looking up to see Mother's Little Helper
Speaker 5: by the rolling Stones.
Speaker 3: I didn't remember what that was about. You know, it's valium.
Speaker 5: I think lithium, valium, prozac, lexapro, now a bunch of
Speaker 5: just huge offshoots of those latter ones, Like.
Speaker 3: Can you think of any.
Speaker 4: That are used right now?
Speaker 3: I mean, my sister's been on all of them.
Speaker 16: My mom, we.
Speaker 5: Should have had her, We should have had her as
Speaker 5: like a ten minute guest spot zoomer in. No, because
Speaker 5: she likes them, so it's okay to get the other side.
Speaker 5: I mean, she actually has had really bad experiences with
Speaker 5: certain ones.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 4: The thing about it, though, is they say that they
Speaker 4: put that high amount of fluoride in these drugs because
Speaker 4: it improves their efficacy, which means it totally shuts your
Speaker 4: fucking brain down.
Speaker 5: Well, why do they put it in the water because
Speaker 5: teeth teeth. Luckily, we live in one of few states
Speaker 5: that hasn't fluoridated their water.
Speaker 3: In fact, as I.
Speaker 5: Know, and you'll come to find out when you have
Speaker 5: a kid and you take them to the doctor. They
Speaker 5: even specify like, yeah, we don't have florid in the
Speaker 5: water here in Oregon. Do you want to put your
Speaker 5: kid on fluoride pills?
Speaker 12: No?
Speaker 3: Fuck you very.
Speaker 4: Much, Fuck you very much. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I mean, eventually they stop asking because they just know
Speaker 5: I mean they.
Speaker 3: Have to ask.
Speaker 4: I'm sure they have to ask.
Speaker 5: On their required questionnaire that every.
Speaker 4: Doctor saying, we have to put fluoride in these antidepressants
Speaker 4: because it improves the efficacy.
Speaker 5: Well, it's like adding shit to fucking tobacco when you make.
Speaker 4: Cigarettes, but improves their efficacy because it totally calcifies your
Speaker 4: fucking brain hole.
Speaker 3: I mean that is generally what they're going for.
Speaker 4: So another ingredient that is used in almost every pharmaceutical,
Speaker 4: but especially synthetic antidepressants, is petroleum derivatives.
Speaker 3: I think that's just in most pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 4: In thailan al, advil, they all have petrochemicals. And the
Speaker 4: reason that they use petrochemicals is because of So when
Speaker 4: we say things like the pharmaceutical industry is an industry
Speaker 4: for a reason, it's a money making machine. They don't
Speaker 4: care about healing anyone, they don't care about saving anyone.
Speaker 4: They're literally synthesizing fluoride and petrochemicals to induce a fucking
Speaker 4: lobotomy in a very mild form, right.
Speaker 5: And it's it's perpetual. Over time, you're getting the same effect.
Speaker 5: It's like I used to say when I was really
Speaker 5: big into like all the MDMA research they did in
Speaker 5: the eighties. When I was like making this documentary a
Speaker 5: long time ago, they talk about how MDMA was being
Speaker 5: used in couple's therapy. It was being used for depression,
Speaker 5: and the idea was, rather than flood your brain and
Speaker 5: fuck your Sara tone and uptake with these modern pills,
Speaker 5: you would have three or four sessions with molly, and
Speaker 5: that's what MDMA is. And in some of these instances,
Speaker 5: like the therapists would take a little and then the
Speaker 5: couples would take some and they would just bear their
Speaker 5: souls to each other and they was fucking working for
Speaker 5: all sorts of shit.
Speaker 3: And the pharmaceutical company said, well, that's what ours do.
Speaker 5: But it does it over fucking years and years and years,
Speaker 5: and it keeps you coming back. So MDMA was just
Speaker 5: wiped off the map. Now, I do have a lot
Speaker 5: of mixed feelings about what they're doing with some of
Speaker 5: these psychedelic studies that are still continuing to day through
Speaker 5: places like Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies maps they're doing
Speaker 5: like all these but I did see a lot of
Speaker 5: value in three therapy sessions for it. The most where
Speaker 5: you roll and I have done MDMA a handful of times,
Speaker 5: and by God, I think there was something there.
Speaker 4: Oh why because it's focusing on spiritual outlets instead of.
Speaker 5: No it's I mean, you can look at it, and
Speaker 5: it does. If you're spiritually inclined, it will feel that way.
Speaker 5: But what it does is it just lets you look
Speaker 5: at yourself from an objective, empathetic perspective, which you were
Speaker 5: not able to do in our bodies. For some reason,
Speaker 5: maybe we can maybe we lost it, but this allows
Speaker 5: you to just be.
Speaker 3: Completely open and honest. I mean you could like.
Speaker 4: Okay, but yeah, that sounds like a spiritual thing.
Speaker 3: For sure, it is. There's a spiritual level to it.
Speaker 5: But you could take atheists and get the same result
Speaker 5: and they would just look at it as better living
Speaker 5: through chemistry or whatever. But my whole point was this
Speaker 5: Rockefeller model of medicine couldn't survive. If you were letting
Speaker 5: things through the cracks into the psychotherapy offices across the country,
Speaker 5: you would quickly drive them under, and so of course
Speaker 5: they did, or they drove them under so they wouldn't
Speaker 5: be driven under. Also, something I wanted to mention because
Speaker 5: the Rockefeller thing, I'm assuming that ninety nine point ninety
Speaker 5: ninety nine percent of people listening or watching this are
Speaker 5: very aware of the Rockefeller system.
Speaker 3: But I couldn't help.
Speaker 5: But notice I've always been a King of the Hill fan.
Speaker 3: Julia's like, yeah, on it.
Speaker 5: But I've been watching the new one, and of course
Speaker 5: my favorite character is Dale Dale, and in this one,
Speaker 5: he's like saying all the shit, but it's just you know,
Speaker 5: he's he's mentioned in he always did, but he's mentioned
Speaker 5: in like Rockefeller Medicine. And in one of the more
Speaker 5: recent episodes I watched, he was talking about the Zepruder
Speaker 5: film and he's like, if you zoo him in on
Speaker 5: such and such frame, you see this, And he's like,
Speaker 5: but it's all fake anyway.
Speaker 3: And I was like, oh my god, they're like up.
Speaker 5: But then you gotta wonder, like because Mike Judge is
Speaker 5: probably very aware of all this shit, but he chooses
Speaker 5: like this character that no one takes seriously to be
Speaker 5: like the outlet for all those ideas.
Speaker 3: And I think that's the problem with a lot.
Speaker 5: Of you know, pop culture conspiracy stuff, is it's never
Speaker 5: like a credible character. The guy's wife's been fucking the
Speaker 5: Indian dude, right, in front of his eyes. He misses
Speaker 5: the most obvious shit, but he's in tune with all
Speaker 5: these conspiracies.
Speaker 3: Anyway, that's a tangent.
Speaker 5: But I think we were talking about the petroleum based.
Speaker 4: The Rockefeller stuff. I mean, yeah, I think that a
Speaker 4: lot of people are aware of it. I don't think
Speaker 4: that they're aware that it's in literally everything. It's in Thailand, all,
Speaker 4: it's in Advil.
Speaker 5: It's it's not even hard information to find. I mean,
Speaker 5: you know, people don't give a fuck. But like the
Speaker 5: other night, I had a headache and you asked if
Speaker 5: I wanted something, and I said no, I.
Speaker 4: Was talking about Adville. I said, do you want some
Speaker 4: vix on your forehead? I didn't, which actually contains petroleum.
Speaker 3: So it all does, babe.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I guess you're right about that, But
Speaker 4: I was gonna.
Speaker 5: It's like seed oils and food is the petroleum and
Speaker 5: everything else.
Speaker 4: Sometimes when I have a bad headache, putting a little
Speaker 4: vixa on my forehead helps.
Speaker 5: You could also get fucking peppermint essential oils.
Speaker 4: We don't have any right now.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm just saying it.
Speaker 5: You can get that sensation from completely non petroleum products.
Speaker 4: Definitely, I would prefer that.
Speaker 5: Well, I mean I could get a bottle next time
Speaker 5: I go. I mean I can get you a bottle
Speaker 5: by three o'clock this afternoon.
Speaker 4: I was going to talk a little bit about antipsychotics
Speaker 4: as well, because they're in the same loop as the antidepressants,
Speaker 4: and it's actually going to be a good segue into psychiatry.
Speaker 4: So the main anti psychotics are ziprexa, Wrispitoal, sarraquil, Abilify,
Speaker 4: zell docs, and in Vega, and then they have all
Speaker 4: the generic names listed here. But Sarahquill was given to
Speaker 4: me when I was in tenth grade because I didn't
Speaker 4: want to go to school, so I was truant, and
Speaker 4: the truant officer ordered that I go to a talk
Speaker 4: therapist who was a psychiatrist.
Speaker 3: We call them shrinks and kneads, neked the woods.
Speaker 4: And she told my mom that my behavioral issues in
Speaker 4: not wanting to go to school was because I was psychotic,
Speaker 4: and she put me on a super high fucking dose
Speaker 4: of sarah quill. I couldn't move, I couldn't talk, I
Speaker 4: couldn't fucking eat. I could all I could do is
Speaker 4: get in the feetus position and fucking sleep. That's all
Speaker 4: I could do. And so in tenth fucking grade, this woman,
Speaker 4: who was ordered by the court by the state of Ohio,
Speaker 4: put me on an antipsychotic medication, and then she recommended
Speaker 4: to my mom that I go to one of these
Speaker 4: lora wood encampments and get like talk therapy and stuff
Speaker 4: like that and paint pictures of my bee hole, because
Speaker 4: that was going to fix the part I didn't want
Speaker 4: to go to school.
Speaker 5: You know, I always from a young age noticed because
Speaker 5: I was a compliance student. At first, I didn't start,
Speaker 5: you know, stop giving a fuck about school or start
Speaker 5: not giving a fuck about school until like early high school.
Speaker 9: I was like.
Speaker 3: I was in the.
Speaker 5: Talented gifted program. I was fucking always wanting to do
Speaker 5: very well. And then I like got interested in women
Speaker 5: and everything else that teen boys get interested in. But
Speaker 5: I didn't notice early on, like maybe junior high level,
Speaker 5: maybe a little bit before then, all the fucking outcast kids,
Speaker 5: the kids that they did what they did to you.
Speaker 5: They're the smartest fucking kids in school. They're the ones
Speaker 5: going the fuck is all this this doesn't feel right.
Speaker 5: I should fucking not comply. I didn't, And what do
Speaker 5: they do with the non compliant. They start you early
Speaker 5: on this fucking treadmill of psychiatry pharmaceutical shit, and they
Speaker 5: actually make the smart kids want to do drugs. And
Speaker 5: I really did think that there was always like a
Speaker 5: double edged.
Speaker 3: Mission with like the DARE program.
Speaker 5: Because you're telling the compliant kids to not do drugs.
Speaker 5: On the other hand, you're telling the non.
Speaker 3: Compliant kids that this is their path. What do they
Speaker 3: tell you?
Speaker 5: Only bad kids do drugs, And these kids have already
Speaker 5: been told time and time again that they're bad because
Speaker 5: they don't listen and they get it distracted when the
Speaker 5: light's flickering and it's fucking fifteen minutes until recess. Those
Speaker 5: are the kids that they put on the drugs, and
Speaker 5: then the kids that do recreational drugs and the kids
Speaker 5: that oftentimes drop out of high school become a lot
Speaker 5: of these throwaways in society, but they're very fucking intelligent people.
Speaker 4: Well, think about it like this, because I'll just tell
Speaker 4: you from my experience, and this is this segue that,
Speaker 4: by the way, all of those antipsychotic drugs have petrochemicals,
Speaker 4: and floor I.
Speaker 5: Could just assume that anything pharmaceutical is going to be
Speaker 5: just fucking straight up poison. It is poisonous regardless of
Speaker 5: what it does to your brain. It's fucking killing your organs. Oh,
Speaker 5: killing your libido most of the fucking time.
Speaker 4: Lexipro, by the way, I have I have a friend
Speaker 4: who takes it to this day and she's like, well.
Speaker 3: What's her name? Where she live?
Speaker 16: Just kidding?
Speaker 4: So she's taking it forever long.
Speaker 3: And has she listened?
Speaker 13: No?
Speaker 3: Okay, sorry, I just didn't want to make things awkward.
Speaker 4: Oh but so she told me one day, she said,
Speaker 4: I'd like to take the lexipro because I don't have
Speaker 4: to deal with the anxiety or the depress anymore. But
Speaker 4: I cannot get any sensation in my vagina whatsoever. So
Speaker 4: what is betraying mood? I'm sorry, but that would make
Speaker 4: me depressed.
Speaker 5: You know, some women get to that point anyway, so
Speaker 5: they don't give a fuck with the drugs. I mean,
Speaker 5: I'm not to just leave men out of the equation.
Speaker 5: Some people get to the like mundane stages of life
Speaker 5: and they're sex to have goes.
Speaker 3: But then you throw this on top of that.
Speaker 4: But that's besides the point. Think of what they do
Speaker 4: to Like, some of the most creative kids who are
Speaker 4: quote unquote what HyperAct is troubled. So when I was
Speaker 4: in like what you were saying, maybe middle school, Uh,
Speaker 4: the teachers would tell my mom like she's got kind
Speaker 4: of like her head in the clouds all the time,
Speaker 4: like she doesn't really want to focus on her assignments
Speaker 4: and stuff. She's always like doodling and doing whatever and
Speaker 4: talking to her friends and passing notes. And we I
Speaker 4: think that she could she might benefit from maybe like
Speaker 4: adderall or something that could help with focus. And my
Speaker 4: mom was always like no for that stuff because I
Speaker 4: was just a normal kid. I just didn't like really.
Speaker 3: So what sold her on the antipsychotic.
Speaker 4: They put a warrant out for my arrest because I
Speaker 4: was not going to school.
Speaker 5: I remember you talking about this on an old episode
Speaker 5: of Deplorable Nation, shut Out, Janet.
Speaker 4: Yeah, they put a warrant out for my arrest because
Speaker 4: I stopped going to school altogether because I was like,
Speaker 4: fuck all this shit. And when we went to court,
Speaker 4: the court ordered me to see this psychiatrist who wanted
Speaker 4: to put me on antipsychotic medicine. And she wanted me
Speaker 4: to take this antipsychotic medicine and she wanted me to
Speaker 4: go to this Laurel Wood Encampment place and paint pictures
Speaker 4: or whatever like that's supposed to help. And then after
Speaker 4: all that was done, I still ended up having to
Speaker 4: go to jail and they didn't even give me my fucking.
Speaker 10: What.
Speaker 4: They didn't even give me my drugs when I was
Speaker 4: in jail. So how was that supposed to help?
Speaker 5: You know, they say jail's one of the easiest places
Speaker 5: to get drugs if.
Speaker 4: You want them, not Sarah quill, what was the point
Speaker 4: of do you want no? But I'm just saying, what
Speaker 4: was the point of going through with all that and
Speaker 4: just to end up still having to go to jail
Speaker 4: sitting there eating fucking fruit cups.
Speaker 5: And it's kind of like what we were talking about
Speaker 5: yesterday with where you were at that job where they
Speaker 5: wanted you to get the COVID shot and they just
Speaker 5: dangled all this stuff in front of you, small threats.
Speaker 5: None of it stuck with you, and then they're just
Speaker 5: like fuck it, let it slide. Yeah, but you and
Speaker 5: your mom, it sounds like there you know, you would
Speaker 5: hit a point where something needed to change. I mean,
Speaker 5: I just as a parent, even if I didn't know,
Speaker 5: I mean who the fuck knows. I can't imagine not
Speaker 5: knowing all this stuff that we've learned through all this
Speaker 5: conspiracy research. But to put a fucking kid on a
Speaker 5: drug that forever changes their personality, whether they stay on
Speaker 5: it or not.
Speaker 3: What just seems like such a very long You know
Speaker 3: a lot of them, you're good.
Speaker 5: But some of these ones they put like suicidal depressed
Speaker 5: people on, there's no turning back. It's like ozimpic for
Speaker 5: the mind.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a good way to put it. But anyways,
Speaker 4: that's my segue.
Speaker 5: Into ozimpic frontal cortex instead of ozimpic volva.
Speaker 4: I think they all give you ozimpic frontal cortex. I mean,
Speaker 4: I don't know why I said, you're fucking pharmaceutical level.
Speaker 3: Well here's the other thing.
Speaker 5: We're not gonna go a deep dive into these SSRIs,
Speaker 5: but anybody who wants to, and there's a lot of
Speaker 5: great podcasters out there who have done that. When you
Speaker 5: look at like what they know about serotonin and what
Speaker 5: they know about what causes depression, these fucking SSRIs are
Speaker 5: a shot in the dark.
Speaker 3: They rarely work on people. I think it's like just
Speaker 3: going on memory.
Speaker 5: I think it's around like twenty percent of people report
Speaker 5: like positive changes. Other people say like, yeah, it just
Speaker 5: helps keep.
Speaker 3: Them baseline and afloat.
Speaker 5: And then there's the fucking other outliers, which it's a
Speaker 5: huge it's not even an outlier. I shouldn't even say
Speaker 5: that word. It's more like casualties. People who fucking do
Speaker 5: kill themselves because these things take the edge off, or
Speaker 5: they go on them and then they don't like what
Speaker 5: they do, then they stop taking them, and then they
Speaker 5: kill themselves. I mean, there's all sorts of ways this goes,
Speaker 5: but the success rate is dog shit and it's amazing
Speaker 5: to me that they keep fucking cranking them out there
Speaker 5: because people want to look at like the opioid pandemic
Speaker 5: or pandemic the opioid epidemic, and they want to look
Speaker 5: at other things, but the SSR eyes. I think in
Speaker 5: like one hundred years, we're gonna look back and go,
Speaker 5: what the fuck were we doing.
Speaker 3: I think it's gonna be like the lobotomy.
Speaker 4: Yes, I know, you know what I think is working
Speaker 4: for some people and they don't even realize it. I
Speaker 4: don't think it's got anything to do with the serotonin uptake. Whatever.
Speaker 4: I think it's florid because it's the fluoride.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's not even like they've found things now
Speaker 5: they're putting in these things that are better than florid
Speaker 5: at numbing you. Like florid was the bit like where
Speaker 5: they started doing this, And now they've found all sorts
Speaker 5: of new chemicals that I wouldn't want to think they'd
Speaker 5: ever put in the drinking water, but I wouldn't put
Speaker 5: it past them either. I mean, if you're gonna put
Speaker 5: florid in the drinking water, what wouldn't you do?
Speaker 4: Yeah, poison the town waters. Apply that's all you have.
Speaker 4: Buy a warfare man, that's what it is.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, and they've been doing it in smaller ways
Speaker 5: to all of us, to the people who don't get
Speaker 5: institutionalized or go through the mental health system. Is frequencies
Speaker 5: and all sorts of shit that we all are.
Speaker 3: A subject to.
Speaker 4: Like we don't take any pharmaceuticals, right and uh recreationally
Speaker 4: occasionally but not for the most part. But no, like
Speaker 4: organ doesn't fluorinate their water, and we're not taking serotonin
Speaker 4: uptake inhibitors or whatever the fuck. But imagine being in
Speaker 4: a state that already fluorinates the water chlorinates.
Speaker 3: What that's what we're gonna call it?
Speaker 4: What is it called? Just keep going, I'm sorry, is
Speaker 4: that not what it's called.
Speaker 3: I think it's floridata.
Speaker 4: They put fluoride in the water. They're on prozac, and
Speaker 4: you know they're getting blasted with fucking for a date,
Speaker 4: fluorinates whatever, Babe. I'm just saying people are getting fucked up.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and we're gonna segue into some of the darker
Speaker 5: stuff at some point.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: I would say that the pharmaceutical angle of it, as
Speaker 5: dark as it is, it's like, uh seven or a
Speaker 5: six on the scale that they have created on what
Speaker 5: they're willing to do to mentally ill people who a
Speaker 5: lot of the times are not even mentally ill.
Speaker 3: And don't even get me or any of them really well.
Speaker 4: I was gonna say, don't, and don't even get me
Speaker 4: started on like how it's targeted towards women too. Yeah.
Speaker 5: I actually have come across that stat quite a few times.
Speaker 4: It's just like the lobotomies.
Speaker 5: Well, you know, we're just making up for the other
Speaker 5: ways that you guys aren't always getting attentioned.
Speaker 4: Well, imagine like your prescribed birth control pills, prozac, you
Speaker 4: have zimpic.
Speaker 5: You have to walk around the street knowing that every
Speaker 5: guy that looks at you is thinking about your a JJ.
Speaker 4: They think about how this is targeted towards women though.
Speaker 5: It's like, especially like when it first came onto the
Speaker 5: scene in modern day culture, it was basically only women.
Speaker 5: Hysteria was not something that you would say a man was,
Speaker 5: you know, suffering from.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but it's like, oh, women are crazy women this
Speaker 4: women that it's like we've been literally driven to the
Speaker 4: point of like a pharmaceutical fucking lobotomy. And then people
Speaker 4: wonders why women is all emotionally.
Speaker 5: Ye broad and not even to leave out that the
Speaker 5: damage that they do mentally to females in this society. Reproductively,
Speaker 5: they fuck you too because a lot of this.
Speaker 3: Shit and you are one who can speak to this.
Speaker 5: A lot of the stuff that they intervene with for
Speaker 5: other things they want to fix, it just fucks up
Speaker 5: your reproductive system and ways that you'll never recover from.
Speaker 4: Yeah, your avocable damage, irreversible.
Speaker 5: And we've talked this is a little personal, but we've
Speaker 5: talked about your mom with her cancer, Yeah, breast cancer,
Speaker 5: and she had taken a some kind of hormone, I assume,
Speaker 5: but she had taken some kind of mistigical intervention for breastfeeding.
Speaker 5: She didn't want to lac date and you got to wonder,
Speaker 5: like I wonder if that causes cancer?
Speaker 4: Three times she did it. Yeah, But so this is
Speaker 4: this is why I say it leads into the psychiatry aspect,
Speaker 4: which we both have a lot of notes on this
Speaker 4: documentary we watched. But so I went to one of
Speaker 4: these places. It was literally called Laurel Wood, and it
Speaker 4: was like for for addition, so you were teenagers.
Speaker 5: Destined from day whatever to have a wood for Laurel Canyon.
Speaker 4: I didn't even think about it day.
Speaker 3: I've thought about it the first time I heard you
Speaker 3: say it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was called Laurel Wood.
Speaker 3: We both have Laurel Woods.
Speaker 4: But yeah, No, this place was for distraught teenagers who
Speaker 4: were and they were all they basically it was a
Speaker 4: bunch of teenagers who were all doped up on whatever
Speaker 4: antipsychotic of the month that they were prescribing, and they
Speaker 4: would they would make you sit in a circle and
Speaker 4: talk about nothing literally. And you know, I had a
Speaker 4: roommates or whatever that I still have on Facebook, and
Speaker 4: every now and again, she'll send me a message and
Speaker 4: be like, you know, I see you're doing good in life.
Speaker 4: I'm glad things worked out for you if she's doing
Speaker 4: good too. But it's like, I don't know, you just
Speaker 4: kind of bond over that because you both kind of
Speaker 4: look at each other and think to yourself, how the
Speaker 4: fuck did we get here?
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's like soldiers coming home for more. And I
Speaker 3: will say that the thing they did to men in.
Speaker 5: These early eras drafting, sending to kill people overseas, that
Speaker 5: was like our big fucking depression. And you women have
Speaker 5: the mental health industry popping.
Speaker 3: Up similar times.
Speaker 5: Like men had to on a queue if their number
Speaker 5: was called, go fight people for whatever. And you guys
Speaker 5: were not allowed to show emotion. I keep saying you guys,
Speaker 5: you gals were not allowed to show emotion, not allowed
Speaker 5: to disobey your husband under most any circumstance, because otherwise
Speaker 5: you could be declared hysterical or insane.
Speaker 4: I mean, think about I mean.
Speaker 5: Just look at that era of what it did to
Speaker 5: both genders and now they don't even have any.
Speaker 4: No shit. But I mean, in these places, it to me,
Speaker 4: I have like a PTSD thing about it because it
Speaker 4: felt like it felt like you were literally scum. They
Speaker 4: would watch you shower, watch you undress and dress, they
Speaker 4: would pat you down and rub your crotch and do
Speaker 4: all kinds of stuff to make sure you weren't smuggling
Speaker 4: a blade to try to kill yourself. And the food the.
Speaker 3: True to deter people from suicide.
Speaker 4: I'm just saying I was. I was in tenth grade, babe,
Speaker 4: tenth grade, and then I went to jail on top
Speaker 4: of that, and sometimes, you know, with all the story,
Speaker 4: my dad was a psychopath and he would always get
Speaker 4: admitted into these places and we'd have to go visit him.
Speaker 4: And when I see it in a movie even I
Speaker 4: get like triggered, like my god, because once you've been
Speaker 4: in there and they don't let you out.
Speaker 5: So next week to be a fun episode, right, all
Speaker 5: the triggering fucking pop culture.
Speaker 4: But I've tried to explain it to you. I know,
Speaker 4: I don't let you out until they're ready to let
Speaker 4: you out. You can beg cry, scream for your.
Speaker 5: Mom, and that actually, in their minds makes them think
Speaker 5: you need to be in there longer if you act
Speaker 5: out because you don't want to be a fucking prisoner,
Speaker 5: which same people do not enjoy being fucking locked away.
Speaker 4: No, they would let you. They would let me call
Speaker 4: my mom like once a week. It was horrible. But anyways,
Speaker 4: this is what's gonna seguees into the psychiatry aspect. I
Speaker 4: sent you a documentary to watch. It popped up randomly
Speaker 4: on my YouTube because I was looking for other things
Speaker 4: about the Willows Brooks State School, and it said, Uh,
Speaker 4: what was the title, like, craziest Psychiatry? Uh, something.
Speaker 5: Corrupt psychiatric spittles in the US from the nineteen nineties.
Speaker 4: Our life is it BBC, isn't it?
Speaker 5: Or I don't know what it is, something like that,
Speaker 5: some kind.
Speaker 4: Of sometimes with the accent is naring.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I will when it comes around to me
Speaker 3: on this.
Speaker 5: I do have a few clips that I have pulled
Speaker 5: from here just because they speak better than we could
Speaker 5: describe what they're saying.
Speaker 4: And you know, anyway, So what was your thoughts about
Speaker 4: the documentary? Overview?
Speaker 15: Uh?
Speaker 5: To give people just a little background on it. It's
Speaker 5: a documentary looks like it was made in the nineties,
Speaker 5: and the thing that was going on was the focus
Speaker 5: of the documentary was happening in Houston. It seemed to
Speaker 5: be a modern situation where this guy who went by
Speaker 5: doctor Mark Bolin, he had falsified his creditdentials and he
Speaker 5: came up with.
Speaker 3: This scheme.
Speaker 5: Where it was basically a privatized kidnapping situation where they
Speaker 5: would funnel in people into an institution through therapists, doctors.
Speaker 5: There was even some ties to suicide hotline, and every
Speaker 5: step of the way, they mainly took people who were
Speaker 5: insured privately, so they knew they could bleed money.
Speaker 3: And it's funny too.
Speaker 5: A lot of these people got out of it by
Speaker 5: saying that my insurance isn't any good anymore, or they
Speaker 5: noticed the coverage was gone. But anyway, every step of
Speaker 5: the way, they're just bleeding dollars and dollars and dollars.
Speaker 5: And there is places where, like what Juliet was talking
Speaker 5: about earlier, they had one physician on staff for thirty
Speaker 5: to thirty five people, and they would call in doctor
Speaker 5: to make rounds, ask how are you feeling today? And
Speaker 5: every patient was like one hundred bucks, and this doctor
Speaker 5: would just go around to like thirty people. Now we'll
Speaker 5: get into how they were getting these people in there,
Speaker 5: but my overall thoughts on it was I was a
Speaker 5: little shocked that this was going on this late. I'm
Speaker 5: sure it still is on smaller levels, but this was
Speaker 5: just an out in the open scheme. And they even
Speaker 5: have this marketing real and they market for it. They have,
Speaker 5: like I imagine during soap operas during the day or
Speaker 5: like late night TV, these infomercials with one eight hundred
Speaker 5: numbers for these places, trying to get your kids, trying
Speaker 5: to get anybody who felt a little emotionally unstable. But yeah,
Speaker 5: why don't you go over your thoughts on it first,
Speaker 5: and then I have some some of the situations I
Speaker 5: want to talk about what you might cover on your own,
Speaker 5: and then I won't have to. But I also had
Speaker 5: like two or three shortish clips from it that I
Speaker 5: thought would be cool to share.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm glad you did that too, because I didn't
Speaker 4: have any clips queued up. But I think it's important
Speaker 4: for people, if they don't want to watch the entire documentary,
Speaker 4: to see at least some parts of it. Because I
Speaker 4: saw the title, I.
Speaker 3: Mean it could even put in the show notes the
Speaker 3: link to it.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I will.
Speaker 17: So.
Speaker 4: I was watching the Willow Brooks State School with Heraldo Rivera.
Speaker 4: This was in the side panel for like the recommended say,
Speaker 4: corrupt psychiatric hospitals in the US from the nineteen nineties,
Speaker 4: and I did that nineties mini series and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 4: that's so interesting that it was some type of corrupt
Speaker 4: hospitals in the nineties. I wonder what they were doing.
Speaker 4: And I clicked on it and I was just, you know,
Speaker 4: working on my notes. I think I maybe did some dishes,
Speaker 4: jumped in the shower, and I was listening to it
Speaker 4: in the background, and there were parts that came up
Speaker 4: in the documentary where I literally just stopped and I
Speaker 4: was like, what the fuck, what the actual fuck? I mean,
Speaker 4: these people were getting kidnapped, they were getting and some
Speaker 4: of their lives were absolutely ruined by this.
Speaker 5: Normal everyday people living normal everyday lives, having normal everyday
Speaker 5: problems became victims of this thing.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and some of them got their kids taken away,
Speaker 4: some of them.
Speaker 5: Yeah, We've got some examples that will show clips of,
Speaker 5: but one of them is I think it's one of
Speaker 5: the first ones they talk about, and Julia and I
Speaker 5: both remembered it because it's crazy. This married couple had
Speaker 5: an eighteen month old child and they were trying to
Speaker 5: save their marriage and the husband was even quoted in
Speaker 5: the documentary as saying, I wasn't trying to save it
Speaker 5: for sheer. I I was mainly focused on saving it
Speaker 5: for child, which say what you want about that, I
Speaker 5: don't agree with it. Some people want to avoid divorce altogether.
Speaker 5: But if you can't get your shit together, get out
Speaker 5: for the sake of the kid. Don't stay for the
Speaker 5: sake of the kid. But his head was in the
Speaker 5: right place. He wanted to save it. So they were
Speaker 5: in couple's therapy and one day he didn't hear back
Speaker 5: from her after their session, and he called around and finally,
Speaker 5: like at eleven o'clock at night, he got a call
Speaker 5: back from a doctor said she.
Speaker 4: Had been his wife.
Speaker 5: Yeah, had been held at a facility, and he ended
Speaker 5: up finding where it was and going there, and it
Speaker 5: took him some trouble to get in, and once he
Speaker 5: got in, he got surrounded. He never saw his wife,
Speaker 5: and then they committed him and they and what they
Speaker 5: do is they have this twenty eight day program where
Speaker 5: you are a prisoner. Sometimes some of these examples that
Speaker 5: were brought up in the documentary, people were lucky enough
Speaker 5: to get a hold of law enforcement and get some
Speaker 5: like good people working on that indto things to like
Speaker 5: intervene and get you the fuck out of there, But
Speaker 5: most of these people didn't.
Speaker 3: And this went on for years. I mean the attorney
Speaker 3: general of texts.
Speaker 5: Of so this was in Houston, yeah, Texas, and I
Speaker 5: don't know if it was the local attorney general or
Speaker 5: the state, but they stepped in and caught this guy,
Speaker 5: found out that his credentials were fucking forged, and he
Speaker 5: would get these doctors to like play along and get
Speaker 5: rich with him in the process. And a lot of
Speaker 5: these people they interview in the documentary or doctors that
Speaker 5: said fuck you know, but how many said yes enough
Speaker 5: to get And they also emphasize in the documentary that
Speaker 5: this is not an isolated event.
Speaker 3: This happens a lot everywhere. And this was in the nineties.
Speaker 5: And I'm not to just assume that it's gone away altogether.
Speaker 4: No, I would say, if anything, they've just gotten more
Speaker 4: slick about how they run it. Yeah, you want to
Speaker 4: play your clip.
Speaker 5: Yeah, So so we talked about one instance with the
Speaker 5: married couple. Okay, so this guy and I think they
Speaker 5: do set it up.
Speaker 3: A little bit.
Speaker 5: I don't remember how much they say, but basically just
Speaker 5: a normal guy with the health ailment gets a surgery
Speaker 5: that ended up being pretty serious, and he gets thrown
Speaker 5: into this fucking weird system.
Speaker 18: I've had eighteen major surgeries in almost forty five hours
Speaker 18: under the knife in the last three years.
Speaker 11: A surgeon's knife had left Roy Shannon with no spleen
Speaker 11: and most of his intestines and bowels removed. He was
Speaker 11: in intense pain. In the process, he'd becomes seriously addicted
Speaker 11: to painkillers and heavy drugs. To counter his pain and addiction.
Speaker 11: He was referred to a PIA hospital in Dallas.
Speaker 18: The telephone conversation that I had with doctor Leon to
Speaker 18: Brookhaven Psychiatric Hospital had assured me that he could get
Speaker 18: me on the road recovery.
Speaker 3: Very nice picture, but that's not what happened.
Speaker 18: He diagnosed me on the phone as being a manic depressive.
Speaker 19: We found that UH Brooke caven Is is probably one
Speaker 19: of the uh UH worst actors UH in, at least
Speaker 19: in the state. We think primarily because of the clientele
Speaker 19: that they are usually able to attract UH out there,
Speaker 19: but also because they employ some unusual forms of psychological
Speaker 19: therapy that UH are still in testing stages of. For
Speaker 19: for most uh reasonable practitioners.
Speaker 18: Their plan for detoxification is, uh they strap you to
Speaker 18: a bed in uh leather restraints and what hadn't.
Speaker 3: Uh you're left there.
Speaker 18: I was left that way through the night, and they
Speaker 18: had strapped me during the During that time, my legs
Speaker 18: were spread, my arms were down to the side of
Speaker 18: the bed, and they were distrapped with a kind of
Speaker 18: like a leather bands to the bed rails. You're left
Speaker 18: with a boalbum that has no control as a baby has.
Speaker 18: And it's like staying in dirty diapers, you know, for
Speaker 18: through the evening into the night, all night into the
Speaker 18: next day. And then you're someone comes in and unstraps
Speaker 18: you and tells you to get up and clean yourself
Speaker 18: up and let's go to a meeting.
Speaker 15: How is that supposed to tut you off drugs?
Speaker 18: I have no idea how that cuts you from drugs?
Speaker 17: Uh.
Speaker 18: I mean they restrain you and restrict yous. There's it's
Speaker 18: like a cold turkey type thing. I felt dejected and rejected.
Speaker 18: I felt hurt abused.
Speaker 5: So that's one instance, and I do think it's a
Speaker 5: little more mild than some of them. But this just
Speaker 5: to emphasize that this was a guy, through no fault
Speaker 5: of his own, had a health problem, some serious surgeries
Speaker 5: that would change the rest of his physical life anyway,
Speaker 5: and then he gets addicted to painkillers.
Speaker 4: Imagine, no, hun, they took most of his bows, his spleen,
Speaker 4: he's got just shits on himself like a baby, and
Speaker 4: they strap him down to shit on himself throughout the night.
Speaker 4: And this was supposed to be good for his mental
Speaker 4: health situation. Yes, just I mean, think of this. Did
Speaker 4: you see the look on that poor man's face.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you gotta wonder painiful.
Speaker 5: They don't really talk about, you know, how long he
Speaker 5: was in there. I assumed he stayed the full twenty
Speaker 5: eight days, but they did make him go cold turkey
Speaker 5: and say what you want about that, just.
Speaker 4: The him down and make him shit on it.
Speaker 5: Just the whole inhumane treatment of a guy who, yeah,
Speaker 5: through no fault of his own, you're depressed. Well, yeah,
Speaker 5: I just had half of my innards removed, fucking red.
Speaker 4: But think about this, it's the nineties, right, dope sick.
Speaker 4: They probably put him on fire, oh he was. They
Speaker 4: probably put.
Speaker 5: Him before he was out the door of the hospital.
Speaker 5: He's popping those things like smarties, garing fucking teed.
Speaker 4: So they get him addicted first off to the pain medication.
Speaker 3: And then they wonder why he's depressed.
Speaker 4: And then they wonder why he's depressed.
Speaker 3: Have you ever met an up aty junkie?
Speaker 4: But maybe they get you addicted this stuff and then
Speaker 4: they're like, you're depressed, and then they they.
Speaker 5: Just then he gets and he doesn't even get into
Speaker 5: a good just say what you want about this overall
Speaker 5: state of the above board psychiatric care facilities. He gets
Speaker 5: roped into this fake one that just bleeds them with
Speaker 5: money and treats them a piece of meat.
Speaker 4: I mean.
Speaker 5: But the other aspect of this was, as always with
Speaker 5: any fucking dark scheme, the biggest victims end up being children.
Speaker 5: And I've got a couple more clips to demonstrate that,
Speaker 5: but I do want to show you first before we
Speaker 5: move into that angle of it. And actually it's just
Speaker 5: going to show one of their basic ass infomercial things
Speaker 5: and then it moves into like targeting kids.
Speaker 6: I still can't believe what our son's problems did to
Speaker 6: our family. The screaming, the fights, and everything to do
Speaker 6: with school was just a nightmare.
Speaker 13: I finally realized we had to find some help.
Speaker 3: Everything okay, it.
Speaker 12: Sure is if you are trying to deal with a
Speaker 12: troubled teenager called they would hospital now at seven one, three, three, three,
Speaker 12: two nine five zero.
Speaker 17: A lot of parents don't know their teenager is headed
Speaker 17: for trouble until the school tells them. They have no
Speaker 17: idea how much trouble he's really in until school gets out.
Speaker 17: They hope the problem will get better over the summer,
Speaker 17: until it gets worse. The truth is, some parents don't
Speaker 17: want to believe there's a problem at all until there's
Speaker 17: no solution. Don't let your teenager waste another school year.
Speaker 17: Specialized care just for kids.
Speaker 19: Clearly, the thing that's affected me the most is the
Speaker 19: way that this industry has insidiously gotten itself involved with
Speaker 19: the children, and they do so in a variety in
Speaker 19: a variety of ways. The most blatant example is the
Speaker 19: way that psychiatric facilities in Texas have obtained a presence
Speaker 19: in school counseling facilities in independent school districts throughout the state.
Speaker 19: And it's such an incitia way for them to get business,
Speaker 19: that is, through the school districts and by way of
Speaker 19: praying on minors. That's the thing that really troubles me.
Speaker 11: The most psychiatric hospitals placed their own counselors in American schools.
Speaker 11: In Texas, investigations and now underway in twenty four school
Speaker 11: districts for illegal referrals to their hospitals.
Speaker 20: When we started admitting children as young as two and
Speaker 20: three years of age, that gets you a little bit.
Speaker 20: And then the adolescent program, it was easy to admit
Speaker 20: those patients and we knew they were going to stay
Speaker 20: for a long time and they had no say in
Speaker 20: the admission, so they'd be there for sixty to ninety days.
Speaker 21: We've seen the referrals being made by school counselors, people
Speaker 21: that as we grow up in life, we've we've been
Speaker 21: taught to put our trust in and instead, many many
Speaker 21: times our schools become pipelines for our students into these
Speaker 21: private hospitals and sometimes if possible, in many cases we
Speaker 21: heard where that was used to pull not just the
Speaker 21: child in, but the parents as well.
Speaker 15: And al.
Speaker 22: Be careful now.
Speaker 11: Corticia Dupre had just had her fourth birthday when she
Speaker 11: was referred for a consultation at Laurel Wood, a p
Speaker 11: I a hospital in Houston.
Speaker 23: There Burwood, you can't do it, You did it?
Speaker 4: Okay, you wanna come down?
Speaker 11: Her mother, Laisha, suspected the child that had been sexually abused, not.
Speaker 4: From up there.
Speaker 11: P i A persuaded her that Quarticia needed immediate hospitalization.
Speaker 11: They suggested she stay with a child for four days
Speaker 11: to keep her company.
Speaker 23: After the four days were up, I was ready to go,
Speaker 23: and they were trying to keep me there. I kept saying, hey,
Speaker 23: I want to get out of here. You know, my
Speaker 23: time is up, and she kept saying that, no, I
Speaker 23: really think it's something inside you that's wanting to come
Speaker 23: out and will come out, and it's going to be
Speaker 23: a nasty sight, you know. And I'm like, I don't care,
Speaker 23: you know, even if so, I'm ready to go, and
Speaker 23: you know, they just refuse and refuse and refused. So
Speaker 23: at that time I decided to start saying, hey, I'm
Speaker 23: not gonna pay insurance.
Speaker 11: The hospital's attitude towards Leisha changed. They separated her from
Speaker 11: her child until one evening she was summons to the
Speaker 11: children's units.
Speaker 23: Next thing I know, she said, grab her and this
Speaker 23: guy before I can even turn my head, he grabbed me.
Speaker 23: And then the guy that called me to have me
Speaker 23: to come over there from the beginning. He comes out,
Speaker 23: you know, finally and he say strap and it's like
Speaker 23: they went around the corner to get to s you know,
Speaker 23: the strap, and it it was like everything was just
Speaker 23: set up because it took them less than a you
Speaker 23: know second to grab me and less than you know,
Speaker 23: maybe two or three seconds to get the strap. And
Speaker 23: he took his knees, the guy that was holding he
Speaker 23: took his knees and bitten my knees in and brought
Speaker 23: me down to the floor and uh, he like stumbled,
Speaker 23: you know, t f fell on top of me. When
Speaker 23: I kind of started going off. Then I was like,
Speaker 23: what are you doing to me? You know, let me go,
Speaker 23: Let me go, And uh my daughter was standing there
Speaker 23: the whole time, watching everything, and that's when I said
Speaker 23: to them, just please get her out of here. Don't
Speaker 23: let her see this, you know, and she was just
Speaker 23: up there crying and hurt me for her to have
Speaker 23: to see me being treated that way.
Speaker 11: Hospital records show that Pia asked four year old Cortitia
Speaker 11: whether she'd ever thought of suicide.
Speaker 23: I was so desperate I called the police department and
Speaker 23: that's when I got a hold of the chief.
Speaker 16: Canto well, it was a Saturday and I had come
Speaker 16: in to do some extra work and the phone rang
Speaker 16: and I answered it, and it was a UH woman
Speaker 16: requesting assistance that uh, she was being detained against her
Speaker 16: will in a hospital and that she was not a
Speaker 16: patient there.
Speaker 23: I guess when you were in a mental hospital or
Speaker 23: whatever the hospital it was, people aren't gonna listen to
Speaker 23: you cause they gonna think you crazy. But you know
Speaker 23: that's not really the case.
Speaker 16: I went in there with the intention of trying to
Speaker 16: do a constructive investigation. I felt that Leisha was telling
Speaker 16: me the truth. This other gentleman, I felt that, uh,
Speaker 16: he was holding back, he wasn't being cooperative. Uh, he
Speaker 16: wasn't giving me the information I needed, uh, evasive, and
Speaker 16: finally I felt that he was playing games with me,
Speaker 16: and I wasn't gonna put up with it. She told
Speaker 16: me right there in front of him she wanted to
Speaker 16: be let out. And I asked him, I said, are
Speaker 16: you going to let her out?
Speaker 3: And he said no.
Speaker 16: I said, well, we'll see about that. I came back
Speaker 16: to my office, I started making some phone calls to
Speaker 16: some judges and state representatives, and I got a phone
Speaker 16: call within about two hours that they had decided to
Speaker 16: let her go, So.
Speaker 3: Is somewhat happy ending there.
Speaker 4: Dude, that is literally kidnapping.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I also I didn't clip this one, but
Speaker 5: it's noteworthy, and I would recommend anybody who's intrigued by
Speaker 5: these clips that we've shown and the stuff we've talked
Speaker 5: about with it to watch the whole thing. It's like
Speaker 5: forty eight minutes long. Yeah, it's a quick watch. And
Speaker 5: another instance was this fourteen year old kid named I
Speaker 5: think Jeremy, was living with what appeared to be.
Speaker 3: A grandmother and a grandfather.
Speaker 5: And somebody from the school sent over somebody to snag
Speaker 5: him and take him to this place, and she wouldn't
Speaker 5: let him go, and they ended up saying to her,
Speaker 5: and this is something fucking cops always do, Well, you
Speaker 5: can make it easy.
Speaker 3: You can let him come with us right.
Speaker 5: Now and we'll hold him for twenty four hours, or
Speaker 5: you can fight this and we'll come back with a
Speaker 5: court order and hold him for the full.
Speaker 3: Twenty eight days.
Speaker 5: And she fought it tooth and now she called a lawyer,
Speaker 5: she called the cops, and they ended up being able
Speaker 5: to take him anyway despite her best efforts. And then
Speaker 5: they couldn't even figure out where he was. And they
Speaker 5: finally got in there, they weren't allowed to see him.
Speaker 5: He had to do the full twenty eight days. And
Speaker 5: like Julia just said, this is literally kidnapping kid was
Speaker 5: a minor.
Speaker 3: His guardians would not.
Speaker 5: Comply with the orders of you know, he needs to
Speaker 5: be incarcerated, and they did it anyway. Like we said
Speaker 5: when we introduced this, they did end up becoming the
Speaker 5: subject of a heavy investigation, and I do believe it
Speaker 5: all got shut down. But they also emphasized that this
Speaker 5: is just one of many and this guy was playing
Speaker 5: fast and loose, And I'm starting to wonder the counselors.
Speaker 5: So yeah, this guy recruited counselors. This guy recruited doctors,
Speaker 5: talk therapists. They're even doing some shit through the suicide hotlines.
Speaker 5: Like I said earlier, but I'm starting to wonder if
Speaker 5: this Mark Bolling guy. To tie it into stuff we
Speaker 5: always talk about, it could be a pretty good segue
Speaker 5: into our travel back in time to mk ULTR. But
Speaker 5: if Mark Bollan wasn't under the employ of some nefarious
Speaker 5: triple letter whatever.
Speaker 4: Have you, absolutely did you look to see if he
Speaker 4: ever got incarcerated for this.
Speaker 5: No, and in fact, I think maybe we should before
Speaker 5: we in the episode tonight at the end of it,
Speaker 5: because I was kind of rushed and researching this documentary
Speaker 5: and I.
Speaker 3: Ended up getting a lot of nuggets out of it.
Speaker 5: I'm glad you sent it to me, but a follow
Speaker 5: up on mister fake doctor Mark Bollen it would be
Speaker 5: worth it.
Speaker 3: Also looking into old Klaus.
Speaker 4: Yeah, well, you know that's one of the things I
Speaker 4: love the most about you. Because I watched it, I
Speaker 4: thought you would find it interesting. I sent it to you.
Speaker 4: You watched it. You was also shook by some of
Speaker 4: the stories in there, and it's like this was the nineties.
Speaker 3: I was alive and a little kid when this stuff.
Speaker 5: Was going on.
Speaker 3: But I'm just saying, think of how this is our lifetime.
Speaker 4: Escalated, think about how things can.
Speaker 5: Well I'm to cap this episode off with that in mind,
Speaker 5: because you don't pay attention much to modern day politics
Speaker 5: or moves made in that area.
Speaker 3: But we will close off with where it might be going,
Speaker 3: and we might be going fucking backwards.
Speaker 4: Who well, do you have anything else about this psychiatry
Speaker 4: thing before we kind of touch on mk Ultra.
Speaker 5: Oh, yes, some of the finer points that I felt
Speaker 5: were worth writing down from this documentary. Where as we've
Speaker 5: tracked in the movement and growth of this industry. We'll
Speaker 5: call it psychiatric care to you know, sugarcoat it like
Speaker 5: they would. It's basically state sand kitchen fucking imprisonment. Yeah,
Speaker 5: under the guise of mental health care. But this industry
Speaker 5: doubled in the eighties, and we did in last episode
Speaker 5: kind of track the girl both of it from last
Speaker 5: centuries spilling over or the nineteenth centuries spilling over into
Speaker 5: the twentieth century.
Speaker 3: And now we're talking about right here.
Speaker 5: So this shit doubled in the eighties, and it was
Speaker 5: the biggest in Texas. As this documentary the focus point
Speaker 5: was Houston, Texas, but apparently that was big in that state.
Speaker 5: But by the nineties, when they were making this documentary,
Speaker 5: it was a fifty billion.
Speaker 3: Dollar a year industry.
Speaker 5: And one can only imagine where it's at today.
Speaker 4: In the nineties, if it was a fifty billion dollar
Speaker 4: a year industry, you can just quadruple that number probably,
Speaker 4: and that's where we're at now, I would assume. But
Speaker 4: does that number include the pharmaceuticals.
Speaker 5: No, this is just this is just the scheme of
Speaker 5: filtering people through all these different avenues into the psychiatric
Speaker 5: imprisonment that itself through. As it was demonstrated in this documentary.
Speaker 5: All that money is basically coming from privatized insurance and
Speaker 5: this is privatized psychiatric care. So I am a capitalist
Speaker 5: over a socialist at the end of the day. But
Speaker 5: unregulated capitalism and regulation isn't even the fucking answer because
Speaker 5: that oftentimes it's just one hand washing the other as well.
Speaker 5: But with this, you have privatized insurance with meats, privatized
Speaker 5: psychiatric care, and you can just get this big loop
Speaker 5: of money exchange. And when you throw the pharmaceuticals into it,
Speaker 5: we could look and see what the number is.
Speaker 3: I'm imagining it's much more than fifty billion a year.
Speaker 5: In the nineties, it was kind of really taking off
Speaker 5: heading towards its peak.
Speaker 3: So yeah, it'd be interesting to see what that market
Speaker 3: was as well.
Speaker 5: But just from the psychiatric care alone, you're talking fifty
Speaker 5: billion a year in the nineties.
Speaker 4: So would you agree with me when I say stuff
Speaker 4: like the reason that there's no cure for cancer is
Speaker 4: because the treatments are worth billions and there's there's no
Speaker 4: cure for schizophrenia or mental illnesses like this, because the
Speaker 4: treatments are worth billions. I mean, they don't want people
Speaker 4: to get well, they don't want people to get better.
Speaker 4: They don't want somebody to find out that acupuncture can
Speaker 4: take away the fucking shadow people at night.
Speaker 5: Well, and I would argue that the cure for cancer
Speaker 5: is one hund preventative. Preventative care.
Speaker 4: Say you get cancer, right.
Speaker 5: And then you revert back to what you would have
Speaker 5: done to not get cancer in the first place, to
Speaker 5: hope your body rights itself.
Speaker 3: You know, sometimes people.
Speaker 5: Do go through these radiation slash chemo treatments and they're younger,
Speaker 5: healthier people, and they do bounce back. I have a
Speaker 5: fucking family member. He's married to my grandmother. He's basically
Speaker 5: my grandpa.
Speaker 3: They married.
Speaker 5: I as like sixteen, but he goes in and out
Speaker 5: of cancer treatment every few years. It just keeps popping
Speaker 5: up and he keeps killing it, but it keeps coming back.
Speaker 5: And then you got to wonder is the treatment causing
Speaker 5: the cancer to come back and killing it?
Speaker 3: But anyway, there are outliers that do get better.
Speaker 5: But for the most part, I mean, there was a
Speaker 5: guy in like the mid fuck where was he.
Speaker 3: I want to give a time frame here.
Speaker 5: I would say it was in the fifties or sooner.
Speaker 5: He was doing intervenious vitamin C treatments for cancer patients,
Speaker 5: and they completely buried this guy. I'm not saying that
Speaker 5: I think that's the overall answer to cancer, but it's
Speaker 5: funny that they also suppressed vitamin treatments.
Speaker 3: That were popping up during COVID.
Speaker 4: Funny because when my mom had cancer, I found that
Speaker 4: guy and I told my mom about the vitamin C
Speaker 4: and I was like, would you because there are these
Speaker 4: little places that have popped up recently where you can
Speaker 4: just go get in few with whatever vitamins and stuff.
Speaker 4: And I asked her if she would do it, but
Speaker 4: at that point she had kind of succumbed to I'd
Speaker 4: just done trying, and I don't want.
Speaker 5: To do any of I'm gonna do what the doctors recommend.
Speaker 5: But yeah, so, yeah, they don't want a cure. They
Speaker 5: want a slow drip treatment system that doesn't aim towards betterment.
Speaker 4: So I think it's the same with mental illness. I
Speaker 4: think throwing pills in psychiatry at this stuff is not
Speaker 4: the solution. I think that the guy from the first episode.
Speaker 4: The African guy had a lot of great points made
Speaker 4: about how we do it completely asked backwards.
Speaker 5: Well, imagine if he would have seen this shit. He
Speaker 5: was over here when this shit was taken off and
Speaker 5: doubled in the eighties. But imagine if that guy had
Speaker 5: walked into this place.
Speaker 4: Imagine if he would have walked into the Willowbrooks State
Speaker 4: School with naked kids throwing shit, and.
Speaker 3: And maybe he saw stuff like that.
Speaker 4: I mean, it just I don't know Han's it's a mess.
Speaker 4: What do you got on himk.
Speaker 5: Ultra, Well, this is a topic that is near and
Speaker 5: dear to me in my other show, I guess I'm
Speaker 5: saying other show. I consider myself a permanent co host
Speaker 5: on yours.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but on my other show.
Speaker 5: And don't worry, there will be things I don't do
Speaker 5: with her for those people who like her alone better,
Speaker 5: I understand I do too. So what anyway, I have
Speaker 5: done a pretty good amount of research, and damn k Ultra,
Speaker 5: and I came into it through my.
Speaker 3: Interest in how they weaponized LSD. But that really isn't
Speaker 3: in all of this.
Speaker 5: It is going to be in some of the stuff
Speaker 5: I bring up because it was prevalently a part of it.
Speaker 5: But basically what you'll come to find was in the
Speaker 5: fifth these spilling over into the sixties kind of getting
Speaker 5: tossed around some congressional regulation attempts where they mainly drove
Speaker 5: this shit underground. It still happens, of course, we all
Speaker 5: know that. But they were doing a knee open with
Speaker 5: Sydney Gottlieb, not Frank Olson, Sydney Gottlieb's mk Ultra program.
Speaker 5: And I had come across a doctor named You and Cameron,
Speaker 5: and he was operating out of Montreal, Canada, and he's
Speaker 5: a very interesting character. And I have a couple articles
Speaker 5: that talk about the Montreal hospital. But keep in mind
Speaker 5: that this shit was going on very prevalently in the
Speaker 5: mental health industry, in schools for gifted kids or special
Speaker 5: needs kids, more often prisons.
Speaker 3: So they would get these.
Speaker 5: People on board that we're working directly with the CIA,
Speaker 5: and they were doing all sorts of mind control experiments,
Speaker 5: and in You and Cameron's case, he was focused on
Speaker 5: the surface level of curing things such as schizophrenia.
Speaker 3: And I have a few articles, but we're also going.
Speaker 5: To watch some clips where you'll see how dark some
Speaker 5: of this stuff got and how it spills over into
Speaker 5: all of our favorite conspiratorial topics with brainwashing.
Speaker 3: Project Monarch and the likes.
Speaker 5: But we'll start with me reading off my cracked screen.
Speaker 5: It's an article from the Canadian Encyclopedia written by Taylor C.
Speaker 5: Noakes between nineteen fifty seven and nineteen sixty four, though
Speaker 5: possibly beginning as early as nineteen forty eight. Psychiatric experiments
Speaker 5: were conducted at the Allen Memorial Institute in Montreal, a
Speaker 5: psychiatric teaching hospital affiliated with McGill University. Scottish American psychiatrist
Speaker 5: doctor Donald Ewen Cameron led and conducted these experiments. The
Speaker 5: program is widely believed to have been partly funded by
Speaker 5: the US Central Intelligence Agency as part of their top
Speaker 5: secret mk ULTR program. The Canadian government also funded the project.
Speaker 5: The experiment's purpose was originally and officially listed as an
Speaker 5: effort to find a cure for schizophrenia. However, in reality,
Speaker 5: the project conducted illegal human experimentation to determine whether drugs
Speaker 5: and psychological techniques could be used for the purposes.
Speaker 3: Of mind control.
Speaker 5: Officially, neither the United States nor Canada has admitted to
Speaker 5: being responsible for the experiments. Wow Wow survivors have attempted
Speaker 5: to receive compensation with some success.
Speaker 4: Wait, so they won't admit that they did it.
Speaker 3: Well, there are instances such as with the Church.
Speaker 5: Committee and I thank seventy five where this congressman from
Speaker 5: Idaho brought all of this stuff MK Ultra Project Mockingbird,
Speaker 5: among other things into the spotlight and they were said
Speaker 5: to have ended all of it after that. But other
Speaker 5: than that, I mean, the things that they were willing
Speaker 5: to admit to were very minimal. And what they did
Speaker 5: admit to they said, it's long stopped and.
Speaker 3: We're not doing any of that anymore. Oh Fox, So yeah,
Speaker 3: I mean, oh yeah. As far as accountability goes, I
Speaker 3: can't tell.
Speaker 4: You accountability zero.
Speaker 5: I can't tell you the political process history.
Speaker 4: That's how it's like. They're survivors who can say, yeah,
Speaker 4: they did this stuff to me, and they're like, no,
Speaker 4: we didn't.
Speaker 5: So some background on this. The United States became interested
Speaker 5: in mind control in the fifties after the war. It
Speaker 5: was believed that North Korea, China, and the Soviet Union
Speaker 5: had employed mind control techniques during the conflict, particularly on
Speaker 5: American prisoners of war. Nazi Germany, and Imperial Japan also
Speaker 5: conducted unethical human experimentation during the Second World War, some
Speaker 5: of which are believed to involve the use of drugs
Speaker 5: for a mind control purposes. As a result, the US
Speaker 5: felt it was behind in this respect. And this is
Speaker 5: what you see with everything, whether it's the arms race,
Speaker 5: who can build a nuke first, whether it's who can
Speaker 5: get to the moon first, or oh my god, they're doing.
Speaker 3: Fucking mind control experiments in China, Russia and North Korea.
Speaker 3: So now we got to do it. And that is.
Speaker 5: Always what we are led to believe is the premise
Speaker 5: of it. But when you get as deep as some
Speaker 5: people have, one might start to think that these fucking
Speaker 5: countries are working together as per trade.
Speaker 3: In George Orwell's nineteen eighty.
Speaker 5: Four, we staged these wars sacrifice, you know, hundreds of thousands,
Speaker 5: millions of people in the process, while we get enriched
Speaker 5: building weapons, building fucking mind control techniques, faking space races
Speaker 5: to build more weapons and whatever it is. But that
Speaker 5: is what m k LTRA always when you read into it,
Speaker 5: that's always the reason why they were doing it, and
Speaker 5: we had to catch up and pass them. So to
Speaker 5: get into doctor Cameron, if you didn't have anything to say,
Speaker 5: go ahead, So Cameron. In nineteen forty three, he was
Speaker 5: already a well known psychiatrist. He was invited to lead
Speaker 5: the new Allen Memorial Institute by famed Canadian neurologist. While
Speaker 5: they're at Penfield, doctor Donald youw and Cameron, we're just
Speaker 5: gonna call him Ewan I don't want to say his
Speaker 5: full name every fucking time, would become the hospital's first director.
Speaker 5: Cameron would also become the first chairman of McGill University's
Speaker 5: psychiatry department. Well respected in his field, all right, Cameron
Speaker 5: was Cameron. I don't we don't really need to get
Speaker 5: into him. But this is just laying a foundation to
Speaker 5: this next article I want to read, which is an
Speaker 5: account that I think is going to be more in
Speaker 5: depth than anything the Candian Encyclopedia could offer us. So
Speaker 5: this is from a book and this is the afterword.
Speaker 5: But I just found this when I was coming through
Speaker 5: some files.
Speaker 3: I've got the documents.
Speaker 5: This is written by a Professor David Harper of University
Speaker 5: of East London and in the show notes, maybe Julia
Speaker 5: will tell you what book this came from.
Speaker 3: I don't want to go back because I had the
Speaker 3: like pdf.
Speaker 5: This the experiments at the heart of page Cooper's story
Speaker 5: sounds as if they are straight out of a dystopian
Speaker 5: conspiracy thriller. But they really happened already. I like the
Speaker 5: direction of this article.
Speaker 3: Munch me too.
Speaker 5: They were conducted in the nineteen fifties and early nineteen
Speaker 5: sixty sixties by doctor Ewan Cameron, and they even fucking
Speaker 5: shortened his name for us. A British born psychiatrist and
Speaker 5: director of the Allen Memorial Institute in Montreal, Cameron sought
Speaker 5: to develop what he saw as a revolutionary new psychiatric treatment,
Speaker 5: but his experiments were secretly funded by the CIA as
Speaker 5: part of what historian Alfred McCoy refers to as a
Speaker 5: veritable Manhattan Project of the mind. Funny we just mentioned
Speaker 5: that Cameron gave his procedures pseudoscientific names like depatterning and
Speaker 5: psychic driving.
Speaker 3: You will both be I mean both of us.
Speaker 5: And our listeners will be familiar with at least the
Speaker 5: latter deep.
Speaker 4: Patterning, WEP with psychic driving.
Speaker 3: He's the one who for the CIA was I mean, We're.
Speaker 5: Gonna watch a video after I read this article of
Speaker 5: a guy it's more sad than anything that was shown
Speaker 5: in the the UH Houston, Texas Kidnapping scheme documentary. It's
Speaker 5: we're gonna show a few clips from it, but anyway, Yeah,
Speaker 5: Cameron gave his procedures to He varied them over time
Speaker 5: and from patient to patient, but they typically involved the
Speaker 5: mix of the following number one drug induced coma. Each
Speaker 5: experimental treatment for Cameron's patients, two thirds of who were women,
Speaker 5: which we did say earlier, two thirds, that's a big
Speaker 5: fucking number, would usually begin and conclude with quote sleep
Speaker 5: therapy end quote, i e. A coma induced by administering
Speaker 5: barbiturates number two deep patterning. During the drug induced sleep,
Speaker 5: patients would be woken up for feeding the toilet and
Speaker 5: to be given regular electroc which would start after about
Speaker 5: three days of sleep. The combined sleep electric shock quote
Speaker 5: treatment in quote lasted between fifteen to thirty days, sometimes
Speaker 5: up to sixty five days. So that patients did not
Speaker 5: harm themselves as a result of the epileptic seizures caused
Speaker 5: by the electroshock, they were immobilized with muscle relaxant drugs
Speaker 5: like carreer. In the standard electroshock therapy of the times,
Speaker 5: doctors would give patients a single dose of one hundred
Speaker 5: and ten volts, lasting a fraction of a second every
Speaker 5: one or two days. However, by contrast, according to John Marx,
Speaker 5: quote Cameron used to form twenty to forty times more intense,
Speaker 5: two or three times daily with the power turned up
Speaker 5: to one hundred and fifty volts into quote. So he
Speaker 5: up to forty and did it longer. Cameron's aim, as
Speaker 5: stated in his journal article and Comprehensive Psychiatry in nineteen
Speaker 5: sixty two, was to cause disorientation and confusion via quote
Speaker 5: massive end quote and quote pervasive end quote, memory disturbance.
Speaker 5: After this, According to his article, a patient might be
Speaker 5: quote unable to walk without support to feed himself, and
Speaker 5: he may show double incontinence in quote he shitt himself
Speaker 5: double time. WHOA number three psychic driving patients were next
Speaker 5: subjected to negative taped messages e g. Mother hates me.
Speaker 5: The aim was to quote get rid of unwanted behavior
Speaker 5: in quote, and then this would be followed by positive
Speaker 5: messages quote to condition in desired personality traits end quote.
Speaker 5: The messages taken from recordings of Cameron's interview with patients.
Speaker 3: Were played repetitively on a tape loop system via loud
Speaker 3: speakers or a football helmet contraption for sixteen hours a
Speaker 3: day for several weeks.
Speaker 5: And we're going to show a clip of a very
Speaker 5: unfortunate example of this. Cameron sought to intensify the effect
Speaker 5: by placing his patients in a sensory depor vision quote
Speaker 5: box end quote. We're talking Joe Rogan and stranger things
Speaker 5: in the stables of the hospital and giving them cocktails
Speaker 5: of drugs which would immobilize them but keep them awake
Speaker 5: whilst they experienced hallucinations induced by psychedelic drugs val or
Speaker 5: lick cow something like that. Described her experience as quote
Speaker 5: terrifying end quote. She received LSD one to four times
Speaker 5: a week, goddamn together with either a stimulant or this
Speaker 5: is like manson shit with either a stimulant or depressant,
Speaker 5: and then was left on her own to listen to
Speaker 5: tape playing excerpts for last session of her last session
Speaker 5: with Cameron. This is carrying insanity, everybody not inducing it.
Speaker 5: Jesus Christ, someone needs some help.
Speaker 4: And this I'm flabbergett. I'm speechless.
Speaker 5: Oh, as far as mk Ulter goes, this is like
Speaker 5: one of several fucking ways they were doing this weird.
Speaker 5: He makes all the shit that we're led to believe
Speaker 5: was the worst thing that ever happened in Nazi Germany
Speaker 5: makes it. I mean, then it was a spillover effect
Speaker 5: because a lot of these fuckers that came over via
Speaker 5: via paper clip were the ones doing this stuff.
Speaker 4: Starting to wonder if they didn't do this to you know,
Speaker 4: Q four what.
Speaker 5: That quation when you told me the story of that guy,
Speaker 5: It just reminded me of like if I don't know
Speaker 5: name your favorite filmmaker made stranger things and you would
Speaker 5: have that guy like.
Speaker 3: It's just a crazy story.
Speaker 5: They drove him to non anyway, Yeah, I agree. Oh
Speaker 5: they're giving patients names here too. Anyway, val or lecow.
Speaker 13: She was.
Speaker 5: Yes, she was given LSD and stimulants and then made
Speaker 5: to listen to her last tape sessions. In the case
Speaker 5: of a patient named Mary, Cameron kept her in his
Speaker 5: sensory deprivation box for thirty five days. I mean, this
Speaker 5: is what they do to punish people in prison, is
Speaker 5: solitary confinement. Let alone sensory.
Speaker 4: Her in a sensory deprivation box for thirty five days.
Speaker 4: Let's saying here gave her repeated electro shocks and drug Sorry,
Speaker 4: go ahead.
Speaker 5: If you want to turn No, I'm just the torture
Speaker 5: thirty five days comma gave her repeated electro shocks whilst
Speaker 5: she was in drug induced comma, after which she endured
Speaker 5: one hundred and one days of quote psychic driving in
Speaker 5: quote at the end of her quote treatment end quote.
Speaker 5: According to Cameron, quote, no favorable results were obtained in.
Speaker 4: Quote oh weird, my God, a.
Speaker 5: Result that comes as little surprise with the link with
Speaker 5: the CIA emerged only after years of dogged investigation. In
Speaker 5: nineteen seventy four of The New York Times published an
Speaker 5: article by Seymour Hirsh about unconstitutional CIA activities, based in
Speaker 5: part on an internal report. Yeah, this is what I
Speaker 5: was talking about earlier. The CIA called the family Jewels.
Speaker 5: That was the Church Committee. Hersh's article sparked investigations by
Speaker 5: President Ford's Rockefeller Commission. Ah, they're back in the US
Speaker 5: Senate's Church Committee. It was revealed that the CIA had
Speaker 5: used LSD on the unsuspected members of the public in
Speaker 5: the US, and then nineteen fifty three, Frank Wolson, a
Speaker 5: US Army biological warfare specialist had fallen to his death
Speaker 5: from the tenth floor went to see.
Speaker 3: What I'm telling I knew he was not running this shit.
Speaker 3: He was an innocent contractor.
Speaker 4: Well he got fucked, is what he got. But he what.
Speaker 3: To get.
Speaker 5: Well, yeah, we could get into Frank Olson. Julie and
Speaker 5: I have both gone into him on other episodes about
Speaker 5: how he got dosed at this like outing in the
Speaker 5: woods and then he started fucking freaking out about what
Speaker 5: he was a part of, and he was wanting to
Speaker 5: talk and then they threw him from it. I know
Speaker 5: a lot of people think that he was on acid
Speaker 5: and he jumped to his death, but those are just
Speaker 5: regards that think that closed window. Only the truest of
Speaker 5: you will get that reference, all right. Frank Wilson had
Speaker 5: fallen to his death from a tenth floor window, silled
Speaker 5: after days after being given LSD without his knowledge or permission. However,
Speaker 5: the investigations were hampered by the fact that CIA director
Speaker 5: Richard Holmes had ordered all records be destroyed by seventy three,
Speaker 5: but in seventy seven, sixteen thousand pages of documents relating
Speaker 5: to the CIA's financial history were found following a foyer
Speaker 5: by John Marx, a former State Department employee turned art
Speaker 5: turned author. Marx and his research team managed to identify
Speaker 5: and interview some of those involved in In nineteen seventy nine,
Speaker 5: he published that such for the Mancherian Candidate, the CIA
Speaker 5: and Mind Control. This revealed that Cameron had begun to
Speaker 5: receive money for his research from the CIA in nineteen
Speaker 5: fifty seven. And then it's funny too, because in nineteen
Speaker 5: fifty eight what's his name.
Speaker 3: Moved into the other place. This is all that going on. Oh,
Speaker 3: at the same time, this is like a movie.
Speaker 5: You could just do a movie like from fifty five
Speaker 5: to the early sixties.
Speaker 3: And anyway, okay.
Speaker 5: Cameron had begun to receive money for his research from
Speaker 5: the CIA in fifty seven via front organization called the
Speaker 5: the Society for the Investigation of Human Ecology Good name.
Speaker 5: Mark showed that Cameron's research was Subproject sixty eight of
Speaker 5: an extensive CIA. So you guys even wonder they kind
Speaker 5: of in the other article glossed over that it's rumored,
Speaker 5: And now we have documents proving that this guy was
Speaker 5: directly funded as a Subproject sixty eight them an extensive
Speaker 5: CIA funded program of research into brainwashing and quote mind
Speaker 5: control in quote run by doctor Sidney Gottlieb. That's the
Speaker 5: head daddy of fucking mk LT poisoner in chief, a
Speaker 5: chemist who was the head of the CIA's Technical Service
Speaker 5: Division TA. The overall research program involved many leading psychologists, psychiatrists,
Speaker 5: and social scientists, some who were aware of the CIA's
Speaker 5: role and some who were not. It was called k
Speaker 5: MK meant it was a TSD project. And also that's
Speaker 5: a German thing, the MK part. They left that out,
Speaker 5: and Ultra was a code name. According to Marx, CIA
Speaker 5: officials would travel periodically to observe Cameron's work, something Page
Speaker 5: Cooper alludes to in her.
Speaker 3: Story Big Circle, of course.
Speaker 5: So we're gonna watch clips from this what they're talking
Speaker 5: about after I get done read in the article from this.
Speaker 5: Nineteen eighty the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation the CBC fifth the
Speaker 5: State program broadcasting investigation Cameron's experiments, including interviews with several
Speaker 5: of Cameron's former patients. In the subsequent decade, three books
Speaker 5: on the studies were published, including Ann Collins in the
Speaker 5: sleep Room and We're going to watch a video about
Speaker 5: the sleep Room, based on interviews with former patients In
Speaker 5: nineteen eighty eight, the CIA finally agreed to an out
Speaker 5: of court settlement with nine nine of Cameron's former patients,
Speaker 5: and there were hundreds, including Mary Morrow, who inspired the
Speaker 5: character of Joy's stepmother de Rota in Page Cooper's story.
Speaker 5: I'm sorry that there's no context for who Page Cooper is,
Speaker 5: but she's somebody who they were talking to before they
Speaker 5: wrote this book.
Speaker 3: But anyway, it led them to dig into this more.
Speaker 5: Morrow, a doctor, had approached Cameron for a fellowship in psychiatry,
Speaker 5: but he decided to admit her as a patient, claiming
Speaker 5: she appeared quote nervous end quote she underwent Cameron's quote
Speaker 5: deep patterning end quote regime of electro shock and barbituates
Speaker 5: for eleven days. In nineteen ninety two, the Canadian government
Speaker 5: agreed to pay compensation to seventy seven former patients on
Speaker 5: condition that they agreed not to sue the government or
Speaker 5: the hospital, but hundreds of other former patients were left
Speaker 5: without shit. They said, compensation, but it's shit. The story
Speaker 5: of Cameron's experiments is a long and complicated one, but
Speaker 5: he should not be regarded as a rogue. As a
Speaker 5: rogue Maverick during his time as director of the Allen
Speaker 5: Memorial Institute. He was president in turn of the American
Speaker 5: Psychiatric Association, the Canadian Psychiatric Association, and the World Psychiatric
Speaker 5: Psychiatric Association, the World and American and Canadian. In the
Speaker 5: nineteen fifties, the numbers of people in psychiatric hospitals were
Speaker 5: at their peak and provided a captive population on which
Speaker 5: overly optimistic psychiatrists could try out experimental methods with few safeguards.
Speaker 5: These were the days, for example, when lobotomies were routinely practiced.
Speaker 5: As we've covered, poorly designed studies such as Camemans were
Speaker 5: published openly in mainstream psychiatric journals all the fucking time.
Speaker 5: In nineteen fifty five, Canadads Weekend magazine even included an
Speaker 5: article on Cameron's work entitled quote Canadian psychiatrist developed beneficial
Speaker 5: brainwashing clever beneficial brainwashing. I think we're going to watch
Speaker 5: a clip that calls that a rather blatant oxymoron. Patients
Speaker 5: and families deferred to the authority of psychiatrists. I thought
Speaker 5: he was God, val Or Lecou said of Cameron, we
Speaker 5: talked about her earlier. I think she was the one
Speaker 5: that was like in a fucking tank for thirty five
Speaker 5: days or whatever, and the CIA's research program began in
Speaker 5: the midst of paranoia and suspicion about quote communist brainwashing
Speaker 5: in quote following show trials in Moscow and Eastern Europe
Speaker 5: and the coerced quote confessions end quote of captured US
Speaker 5: servicemen in Korea in the early fifties. But this initially
Speaker 5: defensive purpose was transformed and the program's results into manuals
Speaker 5: the CIA used themselves and in the training of interrogators
Speaker 5: in countries allied with the US or and the Cold War.
Speaker 5: An important lesson is that such paranoia, combined with secrecy
Speaker 5: and a lack of oversight and accountability, can eat it
Speaker 5: only lead to abuses, something also seeing in the UK's
Speaker 5: use of interrogation techniques in Kenya's in the fifties and
Speaker 5: Northern Ireland in the seventies. Following the attacks in New
Speaker 5: York on eleven September two thousand and one, the Bush
Speaker 5: administration embraced quote enhanced interrogation in quotes methods like waterboarding
Speaker 5: water boarding, abandoning well established legal norms. Once again, some
Speaker 5: psychologists proved willing to help design psychological interrogation techniques we
Speaker 5: forgot the lessons of history then, and unless we keep
Speaker 5: retelling the stories of the past, it is likely we
Speaker 5: will forget them again in the future, and goddamn it,
Speaker 5: we have. I would say that guy Ewan, Yeah, he's
Speaker 5: a rogue maverick.
Speaker 3: No fucking I mean, I would call him a rogue maverick.
Speaker 3: It doesn't mean he was good.
Speaker 5: He had he had some key backing, of course, as
Speaker 5: they always do. I would say him and doctor Sidney
Speaker 5: Cohen are two people that you would want to look
Speaker 5: into when you want to see Gottlieb is the head
Speaker 5: of him.
Speaker 4: K Ultra Fuck that guy.
Speaker 5: It was like fucking Operation Artichoke or some ship first,
Speaker 5: and then.
Speaker 4: That's what Frank Olsen was involved with.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Frank Olsen was this guy contracting them. He was
Speaker 5: a fucking government scientist and he got entangled in this
Speaker 5: and took the dive. But yeah, anyway, I would say
Speaker 5: Sidney Cohen looking to him, he's the guy who gave LSD.
Speaker 3: If you listen to a COULD series, he gave LSD
Speaker 3: to What the fuck was the guy's name? Who did Sinnanan?
Speaker 4: Chuck?
Speaker 10: Chuck?
Speaker 3: Didrich? Yes, Didric and many others. I think he gave
Speaker 3: it to.
Speaker 5: Carry Grant other notable people probably intermingled with the rat
Speaker 5: Pack and the Laurel Canyon fucks.
Speaker 4: Say, you have pointed out to me that I have
Speaker 4: remembered wrong some stuff about Frank Olsen in past episodes.
Speaker 3: Are we gonna rehash this year?
Speaker 4: No, I'm not rehashed and shit, I'm just saying I
Speaker 4: go off my memory and sometimes I get like dates
Speaker 4: and certain thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, you focused on the Frank Olsen story after reading
Speaker 5: that book by what's his name, the Richeald Belzer.
Speaker 3: The stand up comedian.
Speaker 4: Yeah, Robert Belzer.
Speaker 3: I think it's Richard Richard Belzer.
Speaker 5: But yeah, Frank Olsen was not in charge of him Kilter,
Speaker 5: but he was one of the first casualty fuck ups internally.
Speaker 5: I mean, these fuckers were dosing each other at parties,
Speaker 5: they were doing. Operation Climax is probably one a lot
Speaker 5: of people have looked into, if not look into, that
Speaker 5: they were getting hookers to bring John's back to places
Speaker 5: with two way mirrors. However, this is not an MK
Speaker 5: ultracentric episode, but it's worth looking into. But the spillover
Speaker 5: into the asylums and the experiments that went on there,
Speaker 5: So we did get a good taste of that. But
Speaker 5: I do want to show some clips from a documentary
Speaker 5: that is seeming to be covering a movie that they're
Speaker 5: making about these events, but they actually like interlace real
Speaker 5: documentary footage. So I clipped some stuff where it just
Speaker 5: shows the real shit. And did you have anything you
Speaker 5: wanted to say?
Speaker 4: No, I'm curious to see what these clips are.
Speaker 3: Oh, it looks like it's just one big long one.
Speaker 5: It's about six minutes, So pause for a pee break
Speaker 5: and get your little ones out of the room, you crazy.
Speaker 3: Fox if you've got them in there. Anyway, it's a
Speaker 3: cosmic peach. I hope not.
Speaker 4: Some people is down with the peach in front of
Speaker 4: their kids.
Speaker 5: I am, but this instance, keep the little ones away.
Speaker 5: So this is going to be going into doctor Ewan Cameron,
Speaker 5: who we've been talking about, speaking and then some tragic stories.
Speaker 5: We've got about a six minute clip, and then we'll
Speaker 5: give our closing arguments and maybe lick our middle fingers
Speaker 5: and tease for next week or week or whatever.
Speaker 3: It's going to fucking be I don't.
Speaker 9: Know, to the point where he is destroying the minds
Speaker 9: of hundreds of people.
Speaker 1: These are the days and hours.
Speaker 9: Of the occasion.
Speaker 8: Inspired by the exuberant post war optimism in technology, Cameron
Speaker 8: thought he'd achieved a major scientific breakthrough how to repair
Speaker 8: a damaged human mind. The media rejoiced, even coined a
Speaker 8: phrase which would become a tragically silly oxymoron, beneficial brainwashing.
Speaker 8: Linda McDonald was a young mother with five children the
Speaker 8: age of five when she started feeling low. Her family
Speaker 8: doctor knew just the man to make her better.
Speaker 24: I was tired, I was depressed. My back was hurting,
Speaker 24: and so he said to the children's father, why don't
Speaker 24: you go to Montreal and visit this doctor Ewan Camera,
Speaker 24: this famous man who has all of these accolades, and
Speaker 24: have an assessment.
Speaker 7: So we went.
Speaker 24: My medical file even says that I took my guitar.
Speaker 17: With me.
Speaker 24: And that was the end of my life. Within three weeks,
Speaker 24: doctor Cameron decided to call me in acute schizophrenic and
Speaker 24: ship me up to the sleep room.
Speaker 25: How long did they put you to sleep?
Speaker 6: For?
Speaker 24: I was in a coma for eighty six days, eighty
Speaker 24: sixties unbroken sleep, total comatose state.
Speaker 8: The theory was simple, her a disturbed mind and start
Speaker 8: all over again. One of doctor Cameron's colleagues at the
Speaker 8: time was doctor Peter Roper.
Speaker 15: The aim, I think really was to wipe out the
Speaker 15: patents of thought and behavior which were detrimental to the
Speaker 15: patient which was sick, and replaced them with healthy patents
Speaker 15: of thought and behavior. I think this may have been
Speaker 15: stimulated by the effects of the American prisoners of war
Speaker 15: and career, how they seemed to have been brainwashed.
Speaker 8: The movie called The Sleep Room dramatizes one technique for brainwashing,
Speaker 8: extreme sessions of electroshock therapy massive jolts of electricity, three
Speaker 8: or four times a day for weeks. According to her
Speaker 8: hospital records, Linda MacDonald had one hundred of these treatments.
Speaker 8: She entered hospital for treatment of what we can now
Speaker 8: guess was postpartum depression. Her records show the results of
Speaker 8: shock and radical drug therapy. May fifteenth shows some confusion.
Speaker 8: June third knows her name, but that's about all. June
Speaker 8: eleventh doesn't know her name.
Speaker 24: I had to be toilet trained. I was a vegetable.
Speaker 24: I had no identity, I had no memory. I'd never
Speaker 24: existed in the world before, like a baby, Just like
Speaker 24: a baby that has to be toilet trained.
Speaker 8: She eventually went home, her depression gone and her entire
Speaker 8: previous life gone with it.
Speaker 24: This is one of the twins.
Speaker 26: It was in sixty two before I went to the
Speaker 26: alum and this is the same one.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 26: I just look at the pictures and I know who
Speaker 26: that is, who they are, but I don't remember them
Speaker 26: as my children at all. I mean, I know that
Speaker 26: they came from my body, but there's no so that's
Speaker 26: all I don't know. And that's because I was told that,
Speaker 26: so these are my children.
Speaker 8: Robert Logi was little more than a child himself when
Speaker 8: he was referred to doctor Cameron. He was eighteen. He
Speaker 8: had a sore leg. His doctor thought it was all
Speaker 8: in his head and sent him to the Allen. Like
Speaker 8: Lynda McDonald, he went through a nightmare of shock therapy
Speaker 8: and drugs including lsd.
Speaker 2: Well I was given els to you about every second
Speaker 2: day and injected and sometimes it was mixed with sody
Speaker 2: mamatal and other drugs.
Speaker 13: Idiot Park one on one tape two.
Speaker 8: Most of the drugs were experimental but seemed suitable for brainwashing,
Speaker 8: or as Cameron preferred to call it, deep hatterning. Then
Speaker 8: during the long sleep, the patient would be forced to
Speaker 8: listen to subliminal messages that were supposed to print new,
Speaker 8: sometimes bizarre thoughts on his blank mind.
Speaker 2: I was aware of the speaker under my pillow. I
Speaker 2: was aware of the words, which where you killed your mother,
Speaker 2: you kill your mother? Yeah, who was alive? And well,
Speaker 2: who was alive? Amount and.
Speaker 8: Over and over again.
Speaker 2: This voice is well, like I say, it takes about
Speaker 2: two seconds to say that message. And this was going
Speaker 2: on for twenty three days. And when I went home
Speaker 2: after being there, and when I went home, my mother
Speaker 2: was there and why was she there? And didn't make
Speaker 2: any sense?
Speaker 8: So what was going on here? Doctor Ewan Cameron was
Speaker 8: at one point head of the World Psychiatric Association and
Speaker 8: is still admired by some of his former colleagues. Doctor
Speaker 8: Peter Roper, what is.
Speaker 25: The possibility that we had a good, well motivated man
Speaker 25: whose ego and ambition took charge of his professionalism and
Speaker 25: led him into some very direct places.
Speaker 15: Well, I would put that chances pretty slight. I think
Speaker 15: it's more likely that if he'd been around to defend
Speaker 15: himself when this story came out, we would have a
Speaker 15: totally different picture of it.
Speaker 25: What would he say, put yourself in hissue. What would
Speaker 25: he say.
Speaker 15: I think it'd say, Look, I treated these patients to
Speaker 15: the best of my ability. I didn't get all of
Speaker 15: them well, but most of them I got better than
Speaker 15: they were.
Speaker 5: So once again, that's it. That's the fifth estate. And
Speaker 5: I will give Julia the links for these all the
Speaker 5: clips that we've showed, and she'll put them in the
Speaker 5: show notes for you. I'd recommend watching all of it,
Speaker 5: but as you can see, zero accountability from a close
Speaker 5: colleague still alive, wearing a lap coat.
Speaker 3: In the interview.
Speaker 5: I don't know if they're trying to imply he's still practicing.
Speaker 5: I fucking hope not. But uh yeah, some of it
Speaker 5: was a success, like, for example, that first woman who
Speaker 5: went home not depressed, but you know what, she had.
Speaker 3: No memory of any of her life. It's like that
Speaker 3: movie The Long Kiss Good Night with Geena Davis and
Speaker 3: Samuel L. Jackson.
Speaker 5: But anyway, when you start thinking about MK ultra.
Speaker 3: Offshoots that still are not.
Speaker 5: You know, technically acknowledged, such as Monarch, and you look
Speaker 5: at what they were doing to these people. This is
Speaker 5: the nineteen fifties, and then you start to see oddities
Speaker 5: with pop culture. The Laurel Canyon scene.
Speaker 3: Manchuran candidate type shit, and a lot of people were willing.
Speaker 5: To just wash this stuff out, throw the baby out
Speaker 5: with the bathtub, as JJ would say, and just assume
Speaker 5: that it's all an exaggeration. But they were putting an
Speaker 5: infinite amount of resources into this stuff. We see the
Speaker 5: aftermath of it today, and even though this is a
Speaker 5: mental health slash insanity centric episode, you do have to
Speaker 5: start wondering, like you're seeing the techniques developed. Yes, they
Speaker 5: were using these people, these throwaways as guinea pigs, but
Speaker 5: what did they do after this anyway?
Speaker 3: Closing arguments, of course not there's no way.
Speaker 5: It's spilled over into the entertainment industry, politics, every facet
Speaker 5: of your life. They where you want to think this
Speaker 5: stuff doesn't exist. But yeah, the mentally ill are a
Speaker 5: large part of the research that led to this furthering
Speaker 5: of this kind of shit.
Speaker 3: It's the psychic driving the deep patterning.
Speaker 5: These are fucking terms that are acknowledged in the mainstream
Speaker 5: that this guy was developing in this place and he
Speaker 5: never lived to see his day in court, and he's
Speaker 5: got a colleague willing to defend him right now, Well,
Speaker 5: I don't know what this was made, but it was
Speaker 5: more recent, of course than that first documentary.
Speaker 4: They put that woman asleep for eighty six.
Speaker 5: Days, and then how about that poor kid in with
Speaker 5: acid every other day. It almost seems like this was
Speaker 5: kind of like.
Speaker 3: That thing going on in Houston.
Speaker 5: If you can get end up in this program from
Speaker 5: having a sore leg, shit.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, Hey, my leg kind of hurts this
Speaker 4: this is her venous ass.
Speaker 3: This is Canada.
Speaker 5: They will officially recommend suicide if you ask for a
Speaker 5: fucking chairlift on your stairway. If you're a veteran, that's real.
Speaker 5: Or you have an earache, you're a tarded guy with
Speaker 5: an earache, the Canadian government will put you out of
Speaker 5: your misery. So you think it's crazy here, it is.
Speaker 5: We're living in crazy times. But a lot of this
Speaker 5: stuff was going on north of the border. Hey, shout
Speaker 5: out Davy Wavi, but we know you're not part of this.
Speaker 5: Well fuck, I mean, there's a reason the CIA doesn't
Speaker 5: recognize borders.
Speaker 4: Okay, but okay, but do you think the CIA is
Speaker 4: just running this all of it psychiatry, these Laurel encampments, pharmaceuticals,
Speaker 4: this is all like a big experiment.
Speaker 5: Yes, this is the legs of what is the top
Speaker 5: of the table today, Like you can look back and
Speaker 5: see this isn't a fucking conspiracy theory. These are fucking
Speaker 5: legitimized accounts of what they were doing, what they were developing,
Speaker 5: using the dregs of society as guinea pigs. It wasn't
Speaker 5: just the mentally ill people labeled mentally ill. It was prisoners,
Speaker 5: it was everybody. You go, you get a hooker in
Speaker 5: the fucking late sixties and San Francisco, you could have
Speaker 5: stumbled into fucking Operation Climax.
Speaker 4: Okay, but that woman had postpartum.
Speaker 3: She felt what did they say? She felt a little
Speaker 3: low a moment with five children, felt a little low.
Speaker 3: She felt low whatever that means. Whatever that means. I
Speaker 3: have one kid and I feel loll sometimes. This bitch
Speaker 3: has got five.
Speaker 5: They erased any memory of her lowliness, and she's no
Speaker 5: longer depressed.
Speaker 3: I wonder, I just have.
Speaker 4: A feminine moment right now?
Speaker 3: Please need more of that?
Speaker 4: Doesn't it just speak to the incredible nature of God's
Speaker 4: design of our bodies that you could go through something
Speaker 4: like that and still manage to be okay, Like your
Speaker 4: body tries to heal itself.
Speaker 3: Well, I would.
Speaker 4: Resume some type of normal life.
Speaker 5: I would argue that this woke territory that you're treading
Speaker 5: lightly and trying to avoid exists because the foundation.
Speaker 3: Of it is absolutely true.
Speaker 5: I'm fucking woke to a degree when it comes to
Speaker 5: you know, the what do.
Speaker 3: They call him?
Speaker 5: Marginalized women being one and this is fucking recent And
Speaker 5: she fell into this lady that got her mind raised,
Speaker 5: fell into that two thirds category, felt a little lull.
Speaker 5: Let's erase your entire fucking life as.
Speaker 4: A result, men and women, Sure, the ability to recuperate
Speaker 4: after something like that with your spiriting, Well.
Speaker 5: The old guy, eighteen year old, given acid every other day,
Speaker 5: being psychically driven to believe that he killed his mother,
Speaker 5: goes home, his mom's alive.
Speaker 3: What were they doing with him?
Speaker 5: Was he like a guy they never activated to pull off.
Speaker 3: Some kind of assassination?
Speaker 5: Because the I mean, the icing's on the cake already.
Speaker 5: You know that hospital and they took this eighteen year
Speaker 5: old kid in and they basically did what they did
Speaker 5: to Ted Kaczynski at Harvard in this big timeframe we're
Speaker 5: talking about here.
Speaker 4: But the ability to recuperate from that, it's amazing still
Speaker 4: go on with your life.
Speaker 5: The human spirit is if nothing else resilient, there'd be
Speaker 5: a lot of folks who would go through something similar
Speaker 5: to what that man and woman in that clip went
Speaker 5: through and they would not recover.
Speaker 4: Well, somebody that you and I have taught, and then
Speaker 4: we'll do it like a closing statement. But somebody that
Speaker 4: you and I both have talked about at nauseum is
Speaker 4: Paul Banasi. How is he able to go like? He
Speaker 4: has a family somewhere, he got married, he has kids.
Speaker 4: How do you go high?
Speaker 5: If Paul Banasi is in fact not part of the syop,
Speaker 5: and I do wonder about him, just because he is
Speaker 5: so heavily entrenched in the John DeCamp Is it John?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And my cousin Bill Colby.
Speaker 5: He is part of that narrative, and he's so sensationalized
Speaker 5: that he just might be the West Memphis three of
Speaker 5: the Franklin Scandal, the fucking red Herring.
Speaker 4: Let's just say for argument sake that he's.
Speaker 5: Not okay if he's real, and I'm willing to entertain
Speaker 5: that for sure, because I'm not willing to he is
Speaker 5: part of the Big three witnesses that is on document
Speaker 5: that you could prove that's real. He's a real person now,
Speaker 5: whether he was snagged into this sy up or not.
Speaker 5: If he's a real person, I can't imagine the stuff
Speaker 5: he's claimed, he's witnessed. He claims he's fractured into the
Speaker 5: multitude of different people, and he's having a family somewhere.
Speaker 4: He's married, and he has kids, and he works the
Speaker 4: jobs that's doing such.
Speaker 5: I mean, and not only was he fucking ritualistically abused
Speaker 5: and passed around, he was part of the recruiting, picking
Speaker 5: kids off the street, watching snuff films of people.
Speaker 4: He picked up street kid's in front of him.
Speaker 5: I mean, the fact that you could ever bounce back
Speaker 5: from that is astounding to me and be a father.
Speaker 3: I mean, I run over a squirrel and I have
Speaker 3: a bad day. Same, So fuck that. Sorry, Paul, that
Speaker 3: really sucks.
Speaker 4: Let's just say all of that is real, the real shit,
Speaker 4: and it might be. The resiliency of this spirit of
Speaker 4: the human being is just remarkable to me sometimes that
Speaker 4: you could go through a sleep room CIA experiment or
Speaker 4: SRA or something like that and still somehow end up
Speaker 4: being able to function.
Speaker 14: Later in life and raise kids and raise kids, not
Speaker 14: pass your trauma in some fucking miraculous way, because we
Speaker 14: all do.
Speaker 5: And if your trauma's deep, hopefully he's done the work.
Speaker 4: But think about his kids, right.
Speaker 3: I'm sure there is no model.
Speaker 4: In my opinion of pharmaceuticals or psychiatry that can heal
Speaker 4: passed down trauma like that.
Speaker 3: Well, you know what you could do?
Speaker 5: You and Cameron is dead, of course, but I'm sure
Speaker 5: he has proteges floating around out there. I wonder if
Speaker 5: that alcoholic doctor that venerated his name, you could erase
Speaker 5: Paulvanacci's memory.
Speaker 3: They proved you could do that.
Speaker 4: Passed down trauma in his kids, because you know that
Speaker 4: the a thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I'm not saying like heel that he shouldn't.
Speaker 5: I not would never state that he shouldn't be allowed
Speaker 5: to have kids. But we all do it. Anybody with
Speaker 5: kids out there knows that you try your best not to.
Speaker 5: It could be little things, it can be big things.
Speaker 4: Even if it's just spiritual what he's went through.
Speaker 5: Well, they talk about the epigenetics of trauma, study of
Speaker 5: all that, and there's some interesting breadcrumbs to go off
Speaker 5: and all that, and I believe it. I have shit
Speaker 5: going on in my own family. That makes me think
Speaker 5: there's generational fucking things that you can never escape.
Speaker 3: Like it's just a.
Speaker 4: Reality that Paulasi has your daddy right, Hopefully he's not
Speaker 4: still fractured.
Speaker 5: Well, I'm like, what if one of his personalities is
Speaker 5: that guy that fucking snagged Johnny Gosh off the street
Speaker 5: or the guy that watched Hunter S.
Speaker 3: Thompson make snuff films.
Speaker 5: If that guy comes out during the diaper change or
Speaker 5: bedtime story, those kids are fucking And that's why I was, Yeah,
Speaker 5: I was like not trying to like make it not
Speaker 5: serious when I said.
Speaker 3: Hopefully he's done the work, because you can't.
Speaker 5: I mean, you can escape it to a level neither
Speaker 5: one of us knows the level of trauma compared to
Speaker 5: that guy. No, and you've had a rough life. I've
Speaker 5: had a semi cush life, and you know, nobody's gotten
Speaker 5: out scott free.
Speaker 3: But fuck.
Speaker 4: The The problem to me is the work that's available
Speaker 4: for him to do. I don't think works. I think
Speaker 4: it's all part of this fucking broken psychiatry system that
Speaker 4: keeps people on a treadmill. I mean, you'd have to
Speaker 4: go to that guy in fucking Africa, the shaman guy,
Speaker 4: and fucking do some serious spirit. I feel like you'd
Speaker 4: have to heal your spirit before I don't know, before
Speaker 4: you would think about wanting to have kids.
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a heavy closing.
Speaker 4: What's this shit you got about Trump?
Speaker 3: All right?
Speaker 5: I forgot about this. I'm glad you reminded me so
Speaker 5: to wrap this all up. And as Julia teased with
Speaker 5: a question earlier, is where are we heading now? I
Speaker 5: do want to give a caveat because you can always
Speaker 5: spot opportunity to make Trump look bad. In my opinion,
Speaker 5: the left and the liberal media always focus on the
Speaker 5: stupid shit. They don't hardly ever show the stuff that
Speaker 5: you actually should be afraid of because both sides are
Speaker 5: doing it.
Speaker 3: But this.
Speaker 5: Clashing of mental illness and the homeless epidemic that not
Speaker 5: only a few major cities are suffering from, like you
Speaker 5: could say decades ago.
Speaker 3: It's everywhere now. We have it skirt into our neighborhood
Speaker 3: on a regular occasion.
Speaker 4: I feel like our area is on the up fucking tick.
Speaker 4: And just just.
Speaker 5: To give a little tease, I would say Julia is
Speaker 5: wrong only because I've lived here in this house for
Speaker 5: five years and she didn't see it three years ago.
Speaker 5: When I couldn't walk to the downtown area without walking
Speaker 5: through encampments.
Speaker 4: Guys, it's better than that.
Speaker 5: Well, what they did was and I don't know what
Speaker 5: they did, but what on the outside looking in, what
Speaker 5: they did was they got rid.
Speaker 3: Of all of it. I don't know how they did it.
Speaker 5: I know there was a big crackdown. So we're gonna
Speaker 5: look at this on a national level. This is something
Speaker 5: that I had seen in the headlines and I didn't
Speaker 5: look into it more until Julia brought this topic to
Speaker 5: me to do a series on because I remember hearing
Speaker 5: that there was a big foot push in a bill
Speaker 5: that Trump passed for normalizing mental institutions and the way
Speaker 5: they were used previously in the stuff we've been covering
Speaker 5: in this series so far. But I'll just close this
Speaker 5: episode and then we can give our real closing arguments.
Speaker 5: But this is it looks like it's PBS interviewing an
Speaker 5: MS or a Washington Post journalist, which you know, we
Speaker 5: all anybody paying attention to the political sphere knows PBS
Speaker 5: Washington Post has kind of made a swing back to moderate.
Speaker 5: But I do believe that they're covering something real here
Speaker 5: and they're not like just going for the low hanging
Speaker 5: fruit with Trump likely is often the case ninety nine
Speaker 5: percent of the time, So keep that in mind.
Speaker 3: We are watching.
Speaker 5: An perspective from an angle against Trump anyway, But I
Speaker 5: do believe and even in my own case, this is
Speaker 5: a reason to be concerned. I do want to preface
Speaker 5: this by saying this was January of twenty twenty five,
Speaker 5: so this year, roughly what seven ish months ago.
Speaker 27: President Trump signed an executive or that makes it easier
Speaker 27: for states to remove homeless encampments and force homeless people
Speaker 27: into mental health or addiction treatment programs at least a
Speaker 27: dayjour Dan explains.
Speaker 7: President Trump's order lays out his goal clearly.
Speaker 28: He wants to move more people who are homeless into
Speaker 28: long term institutions and hospitals, including involuntarily. He also plans
Speaker 28: a dramatic shift in federal funds away from programs that
Speaker 28: place people into housing first and instead pushing for tougher
Speaker 28: immediate requirements for treatment. Homeless rates have been steadily rising
Speaker 28: since twenty seventeen. A federal count found that more than
Speaker 28: seven hundred and seventy thousand people were living in shelters
Speaker 28: or outside on a single night last year. For more
Speaker 28: on this latest executive action and what it may mean,
Speaker 28: I'm joined by David ob a national reporter focusing on
Speaker 28: opioids and addictions for the Washington Post.
Speaker 7: There is a great deal in this order, David.
Speaker 28: First, does President Trump have the power to either encourage
Speaker 28: or tell states that they need to put more people
Speaker 28: in institutions, even involuntarily.
Speaker 13: Well, no, not not specifically. And that's one of the
Speaker 13: interesting things about this order is that he's really they're
Speaker 13: really trying to incentivize and push states into doing this. Remember,
Speaker 13: states set the their particular laws, they set their criteria
Speaker 13: for how they handle involuntary commitments. So really this is
Speaker 13: a state issue. But the federal government certainly has a
Speaker 13: lot of sway, and they can for example, in the
Speaker 13: executive order, they talk about prioritizing grants for states that
Speaker 13: are jurisdictions that comply with this order and crack down
Speaker 13: on open air drug use and you know other other
Speaker 13: things to combat quote unquote vagrancy on the streets. So
Speaker 13: certainly there are sort of incentives they can do to
Speaker 13: kind of push states to doing this, and certainly Trump
Speaker 13: has a lot of has a lot of sway. Nearly
Speaker 13: among red states. So if states feel like they're going
Speaker 13: to benefit by implementing a more robust involuntary commitment program,
Speaker 13: then you know.
Speaker 28: Then they just might What does President Trump say he
Speaker 28: is trying to do here, and how does that mesh
Speaker 28: with what we know about substance abuse and mental illness
Speaker 28: in this population in particular.
Speaker 13: Well, I think Trump's message is something that does resonate
Speaker 13: with a lot of people, particularly as we've seen in
Speaker 13: cities where there are people camped out on sidewalks, where
Speaker 13: there are people who are clearly grappling with mental illness
Speaker 13: in a very visible public way. And so you know,
Speaker 13: whether you're seeing it firsthand or you're watching it on TV,
Speaker 13: certainly this is something that concerns people, right, but of
Speaker 13: course in a very Trump way. It's also sort of
Speaker 13: loaded with very fear inducing language. Right. It's you know, vagrancy,
Speaker 13: it's people are you know, having violent confrontations on the street.
Speaker 13: And when you talk to advocates for the homeless, advocates
Speaker 13: for people with mental whoor dealing with mental illness, you know,
Speaker 13: they they point out that most people that are dealing
Speaker 13: with mental illness are not you know, getting arrested, They're
Speaker 13: not you know, violently lashing out at people. But it's
Speaker 13: when these things happen in a very high profile way,
Speaker 13: like we've seen happen in New York City for example,
Speaker 13: you know, they they you know, tend to grab a
Speaker 13: lot of headlines. So these are real fears that that
Speaker 13: that manifest themselves in our cities. But it kind of
Speaker 13: gets you know, really amped up by some of the rhetoric.
Speaker 28: Where are the advocates on the tension here. Obviously there's
Speaker 28: a public concern you talked about that, but what are
Speaker 28: their concerns about this idea of stepped up involuntarily moving
Speaker 28: people into hospitals.
Speaker 13: Well, I think the the overarching fears that we might
Speaker 13: return to, you know, decades to policies at decades past
Speaker 13: where people were unjustly uh and unfairly being held in
Speaker 13: asylums for you know, months and years, against against their
Speaker 13: will and not really getting the right kind of treatment
Speaker 13: or maybe they weren't supposed to be there in the
Speaker 13: first place. So that's sort of the overarching fear. But
Speaker 13: I think I think the fact that you know, there's
Speaker 13: there's a lot of public health dollars that are being
Speaker 13: cut right now, and so some of that money, they say,
Speaker 13: should be better spent on helping people in treatment and
Speaker 13: not just locking them away, you know, sort of indefinitely.
Speaker 28: You know, I spoke to a man who's almost eighty
Speaker 28: who's experiencing homeless is now, has for a long time.
Speaker 28: He is one of those roughly one third in that
Speaker 28: population who's also dealt with serious mental illness as we're
Speaker 28: talking about, and he said he just does not think
Speaker 28: there's room in the system, in the hospitals, in shelters
Speaker 28: for these kinds of populations.
Speaker 7: What do we know about that?
Speaker 13: Right, Well, there is limited bedspace, and you know, you know,
Speaker 13: in Florida, where I'm normally based, you see, you know,
Speaker 13: there's been a lot of forensic hospitals that have closed
Speaker 13: because there has been this push in recent decades to
Speaker 13: get people out into the community and to get them
Speaker 13: getting treatment out in the community and not in a
Speaker 13: locked up facility. So there really is not a lot
Speaker 13: of bedspace. And with budgets being strapped the way that
Speaker 13: they are these days, particularly with cuts coming from DC,
Speaker 13: you know, it's going to you know, states and community
Speaker 13: is going to be hard pressed to really build those
Speaker 13: facilities and be able to meet the needs of the
Speaker 13: people that are looking to be that people want to
Speaker 13: put away.
Speaker 28: David Avaya, thank you for your reporting on complex issues.
Speaker 7: We really appreciate talking with us today.
Speaker 13: Thank you.
Speaker 5: Well, I'll just say that that issue in itself is
Speaker 5: a whole episode, and.
Speaker 3: There's some extreme views on it.
Speaker 5: I find myself in the large gray area on the
Speaker 5: mental illness slash homelessness slash addiction thing that it's interesting
Speaker 5: to me January would have been Trump just worn in,
Speaker 5: so this was one of the first things he prioritized.
Speaker 5: And I don't hear a lot of talk, but I
Speaker 5: do hear some conspiratorial shit about truck drivers going to
Speaker 5: these treatment centers and driving away with sealed meat containers.
Speaker 5: Oh god, this is a ground zero. With Clyde Lewis
Speaker 5: I listened to quite often, and he's had these truck
Speaker 5: drivers calling in the last few months, probably since the
Speaker 5: beginning of the year, where they're going to these addictions
Speaker 5: slash mental health places and they have sealed containers and
Speaker 5: it's labeled meat, and they drive them to ports and
Speaker 5: they have to drop them off and drive away.
Speaker 3: If you want to get conspiratorial about what's going.
Speaker 4: On McDonald's, I don't even know we're eating homeless people.
Speaker 5: Well at least they're shipping it away, So don't eat
Speaker 5: mc donald's overseas.
Speaker 4: Everybody, they're shipping it away.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's my thoughts on the nuances of that.
Speaker 5: I mean, yeah, there's there's so much you could say
Speaker 5: about it. But it does look like like this guy
Speaker 5: wasn't plane. It's a slippery slope in ways back to.
Speaker 3: Medieval times is old. I just got the like a
Speaker 3: motherfucker really still going on.
Speaker 4: Well, I'm somewhere in it, like I'm somewhere in the
Speaker 4: middle between these no human being. It's just a trash
Speaker 4: person that you can just throw away.
Speaker 5: Especially people that are in need of some kind of help.
Speaker 5: Oftentimes they're not, but even the ones that are, Yeah.
Speaker 4: To me, it's like, I'm not, I'm not. I can't
Speaker 4: get on board. We just like to throw a human
Speaker 4: being away somewhere, even just because they're homeless.
Speaker 5: So what well, if you can can't, if you can
Speaker 5: throw a human being away for any.
Speaker 3: Reason, then you can, and all sorts of reasons too.
Speaker 3: And that's where we are.
Speaker 4: Like if you took somebody that had never like you
Speaker 4: took somebody from like another fucking planet or something, and
Speaker 4: you brought them to Earth and they were like, what
Speaker 4: are these people that are like intense all over the place?
Speaker 4: Those are the garbage people. Well, they're the fucking trash people.
Speaker 3: At least they're recycling.
Speaker 23: You know.
Speaker 4: What I'm saying is like, we don't take care of.
Speaker 5: Our yeah, And I think that's one of the overlying
Speaker 5: points of this whole series. Really is this condition that
Speaker 5: humanity finds itself in. And it's been an issue since
Speaker 5: we went back in episode one of it for what
Speaker 5: centuries like documented, but we can imagine that it's always
Speaker 5: been here, and the way we've dealt with it has
Speaker 5: gone into some dark fucking places, and we're still in
Speaker 5: the middle of that.
Speaker 4: I feel unsafe and I get out at the gas
Speaker 4: station at night and there's like a homeless dude with
Speaker 4: one shoe on, just babbling away at himself. I don't
Speaker 4: feel like I want to get out of the car.
Speaker 4: I especially feel uncomfortable when they come up and ask
Speaker 4: you for stuff. But the next time that happens to you,
Speaker 4: you got to stop and think, if we had a
Speaker 4: system that took care of people like this, there wouldn't
Speaker 4: be homeless guys on meth with one shoe at the
Speaker 4: gas station. You're begging you for me. We don't take
Speaker 4: care of our omanies.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a whole spectrum. Like just a little anecdote.
Speaker 5: I had stopped for I don't remember what.
Speaker 9: I think.
Speaker 5: I was getting a beer and some pouches, and this
Speaker 5: guy's like, are you getting some food in there?
Speaker 3: Men?
Speaker 5: And he looked like he'd been hiking in the woods
Speaker 5: and not showered in a while.
Speaker 3: He was totally coherent.
Speaker 5: He fucking told me, well, why don't you if you're
Speaker 5: getting some food stuff, you could give me some money
Speaker 5: and then you can use my food card. So the
Speaker 5: guy was wanting to buy booze or something apparently. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and you know that kind of shit. That's not a
Speaker 5: homeless guy that's been only ill and there there's the
Speaker 5: people that nine times out of ten don't even know
Speaker 5: you're there and they don't interact with you. But I
Speaker 5: guess the conversation we had this sparked your desire to
Speaker 5: do this entire series. That guy is a fucking local
Speaker 5: legend in Ashland, Oregon. I mean, he was a homeless
Speaker 5: person who did interact with the community in big ways
Speaker 5: throughout the years.
Speaker 3: And what do you do?
Speaker 4: He might have killed somebody.
Speaker 5: He might have killed somebody he tried to get He
Speaker 5: was institutionalized to the point where he preferred to be
Speaker 5: locked up, so they let him out one time, and
Speaker 5: he went to the overpass and started throwing shit into
Speaker 5: the freeway into traffic so he could go back to
Speaker 5: jail and get three squares in a cot.
Speaker 4: But he might have misheddied some guys.
Speaker 3: Well that was Yeah.
Speaker 5: There was a local you know, I've not been living
Speaker 5: here too long, a few couple of years maybe, And
Speaker 5: a guy got his head damn near cut off on
Speaker 5: this local bike path that runs through the entire series
Speaker 5: of towns and cities here in southern Oregon. And some
Speaker 5: people thought this homeless guy did it. It's never been solved.
Speaker 5: But that's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 4: So that's where I'm at. It's like, are certain homeless
Speaker 4: situations dangerous?
Speaker 3: First?
Speaker 4: Yes they are, and there are crazy.
Speaker 5: Is it the majority? It's dangerous some places? I think
Speaker 5: so I don't.
Speaker 3: Feel relatively night on skid row. I'm not spending the
Speaker 3: night two blocks that way.
Speaker 4: But you know what I'm saying, though, is like I
Speaker 4: don't think these people should be thrown away.
Speaker 14: Yeah, and we have nothing for them.
Speaker 3: Not anything.
Speaker 5: Objectively beneficial. And you know, it's a common problem here.
Speaker 5: Like I said, in this area, there was a sweep.
Speaker 5: But we're in a city that's, you know, roughly thirty
Speaker 5: miles from the California border and then you go forty
Speaker 5: five minutes north of US and they're just letting these
Speaker 5: fuckers take over the city parks. Families don't frequent the
Speaker 5: parks at all anymore. You're if you're lucky enough to
Speaker 5: find a swing set away from the encampments, it's probably
Speaker 5: got fucking syringes that you might step on, Oh my god.
Speaker 5: And the people are sick of it. And it's a
Speaker 5: fairly conservative town. I'll say it's Grant's Pass, Oregon. And
Speaker 5: every fucking morning, if I'm skimming through the radio and
Speaker 5: talk radio, it's likely a topic that comes up and
Speaker 5: there is no answer that a liberal state is offering.
Speaker 5: And then the conservative states and people like Trump go
Speaker 5: so far the other way. And yeah, there's not a
Speaker 5: lot of fucking nuance when you look to the problem
Speaker 5: solve that do have influence over society. So it's a
Speaker 5: it's an issue that's not going away, and in our
Speaker 5: society that seems to drive people close to insanity over
Speaker 5: the edge. I would argue, with all the noise of
Speaker 5: modern day society, we are breaking people left and right.
Speaker 4: And nobody can afford to live.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just a whole fucking cluster fuck conglamoration of
Speaker 5: a whole lot of issues in Minilinness is right in
Speaker 5: the middle of all.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree.
Speaker 3: But anyway, enjoy your evening everybody.
Speaker 4: I think, you know, it would be nice to see it,
Speaker 4: you know, put just post in the comments section, like
Speaker 4: what your thoughts on all this are. I mean, I
Speaker 4: know Colby reads the comments all the time.
Speaker 5: Right If I go on Spotify and go to the thing,
Speaker 5: if I'm re listening to anything you've posted else comments,
Speaker 5: But I.
Speaker 3: Don't know, there's not a lot.
Speaker 5: Well I'm just saying that I could. I could check
Speaker 5: there is wherever you listen. I don't know you could
Speaker 5: comment on Spotify or Apple Podcasts or Patreon. Yeah, this
Speaker 5: is an issue that has probably affected everybody. If not
Speaker 5: familiar familially, whatever that word was supposed to be, it's
Speaker 5: probably at least on the outskirts of your life. Whether
Speaker 5: we're talking mental illness, homelessness, addiction, and the various mistreatments
Speaker 5: of all of the above. I mean, yeah, sure, pharmaceuticals, pharmaceuticals,
Speaker 5: But yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Think this is a killer episode. I had a lot
Speaker 4: of fun putting my stuff together and watching that documentary
Speaker 4: I sent you because I was like, what the fuck
Speaker 4: is it?
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I mean, at the rate we're going, we
Speaker 5: could probably do a ten part episode on this topic
Speaker 5: and just dive into the weeds. But I think we're
Speaker 5: bringing a lot of the like, you know, somewhat known stuff,
Speaker 5: but looking a little deeper into it.
Speaker 3: Like even someone like me.
Speaker 5: Who has researched this for years, I've come across a
Speaker 5: lot of new stuff to looking into it from this angle.
Speaker 5: And like you, sharing that documentary, you know, that brought
Speaker 5: a lot of stuff to light that I assumed wasn't
Speaker 5: that prevalent in that time period in the nineteen nineties.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think we're gonna have even more fun
Speaker 4: in the next episode.
Speaker 5: Well, this next episode will be the funnest one. Yeah,
Speaker 5: even though it's going to be all about the same topic,
Speaker 5: it's it's going to be you know, think of all
Speaker 5: your favorite movies that are at least somewhat focused around
Speaker 5: these issues we've been talking about, and I'm sure you
Speaker 5: can think.
Speaker 4: Of plenty or shows or like whatever you know for movies.
Speaker 5: And you know, I also want to at some point,
Speaker 5: and it'll probably be in next episode, talk about almost
Speaker 5: the fetishization.
Speaker 3: Of mental illness that I see.
Speaker 5: Especially in younger women, and it's almost like part of
Speaker 5: your he her, You're neurodivergent, You're on the spectrum. And
Speaker 5: people definitely are quick these days because of the programming
Speaker 5: coming from all angles to categorize themselves in these places.
Speaker 5: Just self diagnose. And of course anxiety is common and
Speaker 5: we all have it at times, and some of us
Speaker 5: have it more than others, But just to label yourself
Speaker 5: as neurodivergent somewhere on the spectrum, I'm asked for agree
Speaker 5: on Tuesdays Thursdays, I'm a little you know, and it's
Speaker 5: I'm not It's it's something you can make light of,
Speaker 5: but it's all it's also a social contagion. So you know,
Speaker 5: if we have time to dig in through all the
Speaker 5: fun pop culture references of insanity, maybe we'll cover like
Speaker 5: a little bit of like what we just see in
Speaker 5: our day.
Speaker 3: To day lives.
Speaker 5: Yeah, and quote unquote normal people, normal people, which is.
Speaker 3: Your everyday people.
Speaker 5: Yeah, your cousins, your daughters, your sons, your uncles, your bosses.
Speaker 3: You can see it anywhere. Yeah. Yeah, people still wearing masks.
Speaker 4: Maybe I have a couple movies in a show that
Speaker 4: I want to talk about. You got a couple movies
Speaker 4: and stuff. And it's like you said, we'll kind of
Speaker 4: dive all over the place. But I hope everyone out
Speaker 4: there is enjoying this series so far. Leave comments, uh,
Speaker 4: you know, share whatever. And with that being said, there
Speaker 4: is one very important, vital piece of information I need
Speaker 4: you to learn just as soon as humanly possible.
Speaker 1: Were nevertheless miscovings not with standing. Nevertheless, you need to
Speaker 1: sign nevertheless. It's best if you cooperate, think of the
Speaker 1: sake of your mind.
Speaker 22: Best to relax and focus on your breathing. You're gonna
Speaker 22: feel a tiny sting when you wake up. The program
Speaker 22: will initiate. You won't remember a thing.
Speaker 29: No sense fining, stop resisting such bad TiAl.
Speaker 22: Such promise, wee promise. I just stepped out the Wiams
Speaker 22: except for walking getting.
Speaker 29: A lay of the land.
Speaker 22: Really no place to which I am long.
Speaker 29: I don't have much of a plan.
Speaker 16: I'm ready to go ignor.
Speaker 1: Of confusion, ready to taste.
Speaker 22: So called so blind, Perish the doubt.
Speaker 3: It's only a delusion.
Speaker 11: Look you, we've.
Speaker 9: Found you the time.
Speaker 22: No sense, fine.
Speaker 30: Staryss, such fine, such charm and priss, such proseno scar
Speaker 30: scared
Speaker 13: Skin, skin,