WEBVTT 1 00:00:05.280 --> 00:00:08.759 Hey, welcome to React Round Up, the podcast where we 2 00:00:08.880 --> 00:00:12.560 keep you updated on all things React related. This show 3 00:00:12.679 --> 00:00:16.519 is produced by Top End Devs and Void. Top and 4 00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:18.920 Depths is where it create top and Depths. We get 5 00:00:18.960 --> 00:00:22.559 top and pay and recognition while working on interesting problems 6 00:00:22.559 --> 00:00:28.640 and making meaningful community contributions. An Void which provides client 7 00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:33.799 friendly remote design and software development services, so clients only 8 00:00:33.880 --> 00:00:38.560 pay after the tasks are delivered and approved by the client. 9 00:00:39.240 --> 00:00:43.399 In today's episode, we will talk about the popularity of 10 00:00:43.640 --> 00:00:48.840 React in well, it's basically about an article of a 11 00:00:48.960 --> 00:00:50.759 very special guest that I'm going to mention in a 12 00:00:50.840 --> 00:00:54.840 second that wrote an article titled why React on the 13 00:00:54.920 --> 00:00:58.799 front end race. My name is Lucas Baganini, your host 14 00:00:58.840 --> 00:01:02.119 in a podcast and joining me in today's episode is 15 00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:09.599 Peter Osa. Hello everyone, and our guest for this episode, 16 00:01:09.640 --> 00:01:14.040 which is also the person that wrote the article we're 17 00:01:14.079 --> 00:01:18.359 talking about, Pronto Dota, which is a React native developer 18 00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:21.920 with more than four years of React experience. 19 00:01:24.280 --> 00:01:30.519 Hello everyone, I'm Branto and I'll be talking about reacted. 20 00:01:32.640 --> 00:01:37.840 Awesome. Awesome, all right, so fronto, let's just jump right 21 00:01:37.879 --> 00:01:43.599 into it. So first, I thought it was really funny 22 00:01:43.799 --> 00:01:47.519 reading your article because you actually wrote it in a 23 00:01:47.680 --> 00:01:52.840 very sarcastic way, bringing facts but also bringing them in 24 00:01:53.359 --> 00:01:57.239 a kind of sarcastic way. Do you mind telling us 25 00:01:57.280 --> 00:02:02.640 a bit about why React became so popular, how he 26 00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:06.840 was able to, as you said, when the front and race, 27 00:02:07.120 --> 00:02:11.479 and also what are some of the the drawbacks from 28 00:02:11.479 --> 00:02:15.439 it that we just learned to live at it unfortunately. 29 00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:20.719 Well, first of all, React is actually a library, right, 30 00:02:21.680 --> 00:02:25.360 I mean, yeah, so that's that one of the things 31 00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:28.560 that I actually mentioned in the book post that people 32 00:02:29.039 --> 00:02:33.520 will always remind you that, yeah, it's a library. And 33 00:02:33.919 --> 00:02:37.599 one of the things that I really don't like about well, 34 00:02:37.639 --> 00:02:41.719 not actually React, actually the React developers. I see a 35 00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:45.360 lot of buzz around it that basically says, yes, React 36 00:02:45.400 --> 00:02:47.639 is the king, React is the best thing in the 37 00:02:47.680 --> 00:02:50.759 whole world, white world, and things like that, which is 38 00:02:51.120 --> 00:02:55.599 actually not true. And the look, the point is React 39 00:02:55.719 --> 00:02:59.639 actually won the race. There's no denying that fact. But 40 00:02:59.800 --> 00:03:02.199 if you sit on it like, yeah, this is the 41 00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:03.439 best thing, no, it's not. 42 00:03:04.360 --> 00:03:05.800 The reason it's not is. 43 00:03:05.759 --> 00:03:09.840 Because there's like fifty other frameworks that I don't know. 44 00:03:10.280 --> 00:03:14.400 The conversation that you're having right now, maybe in the meantime, 45 00:03:14.439 --> 00:03:17.199 there's been a JavaScript framework. I mean, there's a very 46 00:03:17.199 --> 00:03:21.319 good possibility that actually happened. So if you think that 47 00:03:21.599 --> 00:03:24.759 React is like the only thing in the whole universe 48 00:03:25.080 --> 00:03:32.639 with the JavaScript, with the JavaScript framework that you can 49 00:03:32.719 --> 00:03:37.120 use to build apps or web applications, you're wrong. And 50 00:03:37.199 --> 00:03:41.599 that's exactly the point of this post. So basically what 51 00:03:41.639 --> 00:03:45.599 I wanted or what I tried to do here is 52 00:03:45.639 --> 00:03:49.680 that I tried to tell everyone that React actually won, 53 00:03:50.039 --> 00:03:52.960 but it's not the best thing in the world. So 54 00:03:53.280 --> 00:03:56.159 you have other options, and you have a lot of 55 00:03:56.199 --> 00:04:00.919 options actually, and there are situations and times when you 56 00:04:01.000 --> 00:04:04.759 need to explore them. You need to try to understand 57 00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:11.120 that what makes React great and what makes it well 58 00:04:11.360 --> 00:04:17.120 sometimes actually really painful to work with. And I have, actually, 59 00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:23.800 i would say, like a basic understanding of other JavaScript 60 00:04:23.800 --> 00:04:27.800 frameworks like Few or Angular. I have worked fairly with them, 61 00:04:28.000 --> 00:04:31.160 Like I'm not like an expert, but I work with 62 00:04:31.199 --> 00:04:34.920 them and I understand how they work, and also React Native. 63 00:04:36.160 --> 00:04:39.519 But one of the things that I really saw people 64 00:04:39.600 --> 00:04:45.560 do is that yeah, you should always learn one thing, 65 00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:49.519 and yeah you should just do these always, and it's 66 00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:52.560 it's always like React is the best, and learn this 67 00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:55.600 and then you don't need to do anything. 68 00:04:56.639 --> 00:04:59.720 Anything at all, like you can always do React. 69 00:05:00.000 --> 00:05:03.160 I mean, there's actually true to that because right now 70 00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:07.680 Windows is actually using a lot of React and React Native, 71 00:05:07.879 --> 00:05:12.399 and there are a lot of big companies that actually 72 00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:13.920 use React. 73 00:05:15.000 --> 00:05:18.399 So yeah, maybe that's true to that. But there are 74 00:05:18.439 --> 00:05:18.879 a lot. 75 00:05:18.759 --> 00:05:23.000 Of things that it's just I don't know. Sometimes it 76 00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:28.720 feels like, how would I say this, it's bloaty. 77 00:05:28.920 --> 00:05:30.759 Actually it's really. 78 00:05:32.160 --> 00:05:34.920 And one of the things that I'd say about React 79 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:35.600 is that. 80 00:05:38.639 --> 00:05:40.959 It actually delivers. 81 00:05:41.360 --> 00:05:46.399 It actually sets it actually does what it sets out 82 00:05:46.399 --> 00:05:49.839 to do, and it does with flying colors. 83 00:05:49.879 --> 00:05:50.759 And one of the. 84 00:05:50.720 --> 00:05:54.600 Things that I actually really admire about React is that 85 00:05:55.639 --> 00:06:00.639 since its inception, React has been developing its ecosystem like 86 00:06:01.480 --> 00:06:06.839 every other month here or I don't know, like every day. 87 00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:11.759 And one of the things that make made this possible 88 00:06:11.959 --> 00:06:17.199 is the Facebook the matter team at Facebook or whatever 89 00:06:17.279 --> 00:06:21.480 they call this is then to the point is the 90 00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:28.240 people behind React are extremely talented and they always uh, 91 00:06:28.279 --> 00:06:33.360 they always deliver like they do deliver. And to answer 92 00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:36.879 your questions about the drawbacks, one of the things I 93 00:06:36.879 --> 00:06:40.879 don't really like about React is that when you when 94 00:06:40.920 --> 00:06:44.839 you have like a really big project, I don't know 95 00:06:45.560 --> 00:06:49.160 a lot of components. Maybe then it becomes really hard 96 00:06:49.399 --> 00:06:52.920 to upgrade something. Or like let's say you need to 97 00:06:53.399 --> 00:06:57.120 need to change a specific thing and you need to 98 00:06:57.160 --> 00:06:59.720 bring in all these all these other things into this. 99 00:07:00.399 --> 00:07:05.000 And when you have one single component, then you can 100 00:07:05.079 --> 00:07:06.040 update it easily. 101 00:07:06.120 --> 00:07:07.319 But when you have. 102 00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:11.519 One component that depends on like fifty other components, that 103 00:07:11.600 --> 00:07:16.839 it becomes really really hard to just update one single function. 104 00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:20.160 Like let's say you have just one state and that 105 00:07:20.319 --> 00:07:24.600 state is being used by five other components behind them, 106 00:07:24.759 --> 00:07:27.959 and let's say you need to update it in somehow. 107 00:07:28.319 --> 00:07:31.680 You need to update that somehow, and when you do that, 108 00:07:32.199 --> 00:07:34.720 there are like a lot of steps inside, and there 109 00:07:34.759 --> 00:07:38.360 are a lot of things inside that just re renders 110 00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:42.920 for no reason, I mean, just because they depends on 111 00:07:42.920 --> 00:07:44.680 one single thing. I mean, there are a lot of 112 00:07:44.720 --> 00:07:49.079 ways that you can prevent this. And let's just say 113 00:07:50.279 --> 00:07:55.040 React this is not the most performance framework, I'd say, 114 00:07:56.040 --> 00:07:58.639 and there are a lot of better ways to do this. 115 00:07:58.759 --> 00:08:02.600 But for what it's worth to create, this actually actually 116 00:08:02.639 --> 00:08:04.199 good for what it does. 117 00:08:05.439 --> 00:08:08.800 Yeah, yeah, no, I think that makes total sense. Like 118 00:08:08.920 --> 00:08:13.680 the fact that if you look at the actual scope 119 00:08:13.959 --> 00:08:19.000 of React, it really does what it's supposed to do. 120 00:08:19.279 --> 00:08:21.959 The problem is really the fact that a lot of 121 00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:27.120 people look at React and expect it to fix a 122 00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:30.480 lot of other problems in your application. When I say fix, 123 00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:33.279 it's more like it's not really fix, because it's not 124 00:08:33.360 --> 00:08:37.679 like it's originally broken. It's more like providing solutions. Right. 125 00:08:38.080 --> 00:08:42.039 If you compare, for example, to Angler, which is a 126 00:08:42.120 --> 00:08:49.759 much more, much larger framework, it does so much more 127 00:08:50.200 --> 00:08:56.360 like internationalization, for example, there is no baked in solution 128 00:08:56.759 --> 00:08:59.720 in React like this is the way that you should 129 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:03.600 handle internationalization. So if you want to support multiple languages, 130 00:09:04.279 --> 00:09:08.120 you got to decide which library, which solution you're gonna 131 00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:12.799 use along with React to fix this problem. If you 132 00:09:12.919 --> 00:09:17.840 want to do something more fancy to control your forms, 133 00:09:18.320 --> 00:09:21.639 then there are multiple different ways for you to do that, 134 00:09:21.759 --> 00:09:24.000 and you have to choose which one you want. So 135 00:09:24.759 --> 00:09:30.519 it's simple. I guess that, at least to me. What 136 00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:35.919 makes more people get drawn into React is the fact 137 00:09:35.919 --> 00:09:41.440 that because it is seen as a single library, it's 138 00:09:41.480 --> 00:09:45.639 also simpler to explain because the scope of what it 139 00:09:45.720 --> 00:09:49.320 does is smaller. Right, you can read the entire React 140 00:09:49.440 --> 00:09:54.720 docs in maybe like two three hours if you just 141 00:09:54.799 --> 00:09:58.320 sit through it and read it's really straight to the point, 142 00:09:58.919 --> 00:10:02.200 and it's because it has a very specific set of 143 00:10:02.200 --> 00:10:05.159 problems that it solves, whereas if you look into other 144 00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:12.200 frameworks view jas, solid Angular, et cetera, their documentations are 145 00:10:12.240 --> 00:10:15.840 going to be more extensive, but that's also a reflection 146 00:10:16.240 --> 00:10:20.600 of the amount of things that they solve. And if 147 00:10:20.639 --> 00:10:23.840 you think that you're going to be free from those 148 00:10:23.879 --> 00:10:28.679 other problems, then you're just cheating on yourself because those 149 00:10:28.720 --> 00:10:31.919 problems eventually are going to come and then you're going 150 00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:36.039 to like you never just use React right, like you're 151 00:10:36.080 --> 00:10:39.840 always using React and a mix of a bunch of 152 00:10:39.879 --> 00:10:43.399 other libraries put together so that you actually have a framework. 153 00:10:44.039 --> 00:10:49.559 So I think that this ended up making React more 154 00:10:49.600 --> 00:10:53.960 interesting because it was easier to get started with it, 155 00:10:54.519 --> 00:10:58.360 but it also creates a lot of problems later because 156 00:10:59.279 --> 00:11:04.639 it is easy to learn because there are a lot 157 00:11:04.639 --> 00:11:07.480 of things that it does not address, and you will 158 00:11:07.519 --> 00:11:11.720 eventually have to address those things somehow. So yeah, at 159 00:11:11.799 --> 00:11:14.480 least to me, I would bat that that was one 160 00:11:14.519 --> 00:11:16.240 of the biggest reasons. 161 00:11:16.720 --> 00:11:20.159 Well, first of all, I think that the fact that 162 00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:23.240 we act does not provide like all of all of 163 00:11:23.279 --> 00:11:27.519 these things together. And first I thought, like, why do 164 00:11:27.600 --> 00:11:31.080 I need. I mean, first, the first framework that I 165 00:11:31.120 --> 00:11:34.399 ever used was View. So when I first came from 166 00:11:34.679 --> 00:11:39.279 View to yet, and when I was first doing some routing, 167 00:11:39.879 --> 00:11:40.200 it was. 168 00:11:40.240 --> 00:11:42.919 Like four or five years ago. 169 00:11:43.039 --> 00:11:47.279 It was during lockdown, Okay, So so when I was 170 00:11:47.320 --> 00:11:51.879 first doing that, I realized that there are a lot 171 00:11:51.919 --> 00:11:56.080 of things that I have to do manually, Like I 172 00:11:56.080 --> 00:11:58.600 have to write a lot of boiler bat and other stuff. 173 00:11:58.799 --> 00:12:00.559 Even with reducts. 174 00:12:01.320 --> 00:12:03.320 Reducs also has a lot of boy oil a bit, 175 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:06.720 and that was actually really painful. But what I came 176 00:12:06.759 --> 00:12:10.120 to realize is that this is actually a good thing. 177 00:12:10.799 --> 00:12:13.360 And the reason I'm saying it's actually a good thing, 178 00:12:13.960 --> 00:12:17.200 I mean the fact that React doesn't provide anything. It's 179 00:12:17.240 --> 00:12:20.399 actually a good thing because when you do this, when 180 00:12:20.440 --> 00:12:24.320 you leave this to other people, then you get like 181 00:12:24.440 --> 00:12:27.600 a lot of pool stuff Like we have React router, 182 00:12:27.879 --> 00:12:31.639 we have dance stack router, we have rich router, we 183 00:12:31.759 --> 00:12:34.600 have a lot of other outers and they're doing a 184 00:12:34.679 --> 00:12:38.440 specific thing. I mean, in some sense, this is actually 185 00:12:38.480 --> 00:12:41.360 better for the ecosystem, even with React native. 186 00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:44.279 Like the fact that React. 187 00:12:43.919 --> 00:12:46.159 Doesn't provide a lot of things out of the box, 188 00:12:46.759 --> 00:12:50.039 it just makes a lot of sense for other people 189 00:12:50.080 --> 00:12:53.799 to come in and just use the bare bone, the 190 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:58.519 minimal thing that we have with react native and make 191 00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:02.320 it into something that something that we want to make. 192 00:13:02.720 --> 00:13:07.440 Let's say, let's say with flutter. Okay, so with flutter, 193 00:13:07.759 --> 00:13:08.919 have you ever worked with butter? 194 00:13:09.279 --> 00:13:13.000 Just curious? I have not. 195 00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:16.759 It is something that I have been very curious about 196 00:13:17.159 --> 00:13:22.879 because I was exploring some of the hybrid development tools lately, 197 00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:26.960 and honestly, we were trying to do stuff with capacitor 198 00:13:27.120 --> 00:13:30.960 and it was just so painful that we were like, Okay, 199 00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:33.919 so no, that's not gonna happen. We're gonna have to 200 00:13:34.000 --> 00:13:38.480 either choose between react Native or Flutter because capacitor is 201 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:43.039 just too painful. But we didn't get enough time to 202 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:46.120 do the proper research on Flutter yet. So I would 203 00:13:46.159 --> 00:13:48.360 be very curious to also hear your thoughts on it, 204 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:51.679 knowing that you're coming from this web out perspective. 205 00:13:53.720 --> 00:13:56.240 So the point I was trying to make it flutter 206 00:13:56.440 --> 00:13:59.840 is that they have a lot of things baked. 207 00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:02.960 In in the framework. Okay, right, like a lot. 208 00:14:03.840 --> 00:14:07.360 If you don't, you don't need a life, very like, 209 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:10.799 that's how much thinks there there are an inter batter 210 00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:16.039 ecosystem and that actually creates a problem. You know, one problem. 211 00:14:16.399 --> 00:14:20.759 The problem it creates is that there are like I mean, 212 00:14:21.279 --> 00:14:23.519 most of the most of the apps. 213 00:14:23.159 --> 00:14:24.799 That you see have failed to it butter. 214 00:14:24.960 --> 00:14:27.320 You can see them, you can look at them. You 215 00:14:27.320 --> 00:14:29.759 can look at these apps and tell yeah that this 216 00:14:29.879 --> 00:14:32.759 app is made with butter. I mean, trust me, I 217 00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:34.960 can just show me some pictures. I will tell you 218 00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:38.080 if they're may be butter. It just it's that easy. 219 00:14:38.600 --> 00:14:42.799 I mean, it's it's it's actually like, how would I 220 00:14:42.840 --> 00:14:43.159 say this? 221 00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:44.440 The thing. 222 00:14:46.159 --> 00:14:49.639 Flutter is actually really easy. And that's the problem. So 223 00:14:49.840 --> 00:14:53.080 when everyone tries to do the same thing with the 224 00:14:53.120 --> 00:14:57.080 same the same line of code, it just every app 225 00:14:57.120 --> 00:15:01.279 looks the same way, right, I mean, have you noticed 226 00:15:01.320 --> 00:15:06.559 those those heathulp reap me apps that people show and 227 00:15:06.600 --> 00:15:09.279 they all look the same. That's because they are they 228 00:15:09.279 --> 00:15:12.480 were made with planted. And when when you have when 229 00:15:12.600 --> 00:15:17.480 someone shows you an app that was built with React Native, 230 00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:21.679 you don't have this. That's because Reagnaitive doesn't provide a 231 00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:25.200 specific set of rules to you. It just provides a 232 00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:28.600 view and then you write your own own thing. But 233 00:15:28.759 --> 00:15:32.360 with flatter, you have let's say a container and then 234 00:15:32.600 --> 00:15:35.320 you have a border, radius and everything, and when you 235 00:15:35.399 --> 00:15:38.399 do this, everything looks the same. But it's not the 236 00:15:38.399 --> 00:15:40.919 same with React Native, and I think that's actually a 237 00:15:40.960 --> 00:15:44.039 good thing. That's one of the things actually React got 238 00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:48.000 it right. Even with Angular and View, they have their 239 00:15:48.039 --> 00:15:52.639 own router, okay, so they don't like there's literally no 240 00:15:52.759 --> 00:15:53.759 other router in. 241 00:15:54.039 --> 00:15:57.519 Angular or View. I don't know if you have any 242 00:15:57.519 --> 00:15:58.840 other outer than your outer. 243 00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:03.919 Sorry the baked in one. I'm not sure though, but 244 00:16:04.480 --> 00:16:09.159 I know that Angler doesn't happen, so I mean there 245 00:16:09.159 --> 00:16:12.279 are other things with Angler that does have things like 246 00:16:12.960 --> 00:16:14.679 file based outing and stuff. 247 00:16:14.799 --> 00:16:16.000 I forget the fame. 248 00:16:15.799 --> 00:16:18.799 Of name, but the point I'm trying to make here 249 00:16:18.879 --> 00:16:22.320 is that the fact that React didn't provide anything with 250 00:16:22.399 --> 00:16:26.200 it with it with its original library, it made other 251 00:16:26.279 --> 00:16:27.120 people made. 252 00:16:26.919 --> 00:16:29.360 Their own thing. So we got a lot of stuff. 253 00:16:29.399 --> 00:16:34.679 We got next Chase, we got like remix and the 254 00:16:35.000 --> 00:16:39.879 ten step. And I think this is actually a good idea, 255 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.279 and I think React actually got it right. 256 00:16:42.440 --> 00:16:43.600 And to think that. 257 00:16:44.320 --> 00:16:46.840 At first, I thought like, why would I need to 258 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:49.960 install another another library just for louding. 259 00:16:50.879 --> 00:16:53.799 I mean I really thought that, Okay. 260 00:16:53.639 --> 00:16:57.399 That that does make sense in terms of flurter. I 261 00:16:57.399 --> 00:17:01.080 think that Flutter also has a I think we need 262 00:17:01.120 --> 00:17:03.720 to separate things a bit because I think there's like 263 00:17:03.879 --> 00:17:08.480 this broader concept of something that is more opinionated and 264 00:17:09.160 --> 00:17:14.480 solves more problems versus something that is smaller in scope 265 00:17:14.640 --> 00:17:18.319 and leaves you with more options to do whatever you want. 266 00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:23.279 So like React is something that is more scope and 267 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:27.599 then lets you make choices afterwards, and Flutter and Angular 268 00:17:27.759 --> 00:17:31.200 are more opinionated and have their own way of doing things. 269 00:17:31.400 --> 00:17:34.599 But I think there's also like I think we need 270 00:17:34.640 --> 00:17:41.960 to separate the idea from the actual examples because Flutter 271 00:17:42.119 --> 00:17:46.319 and Angular they are both very opinionated and they have 272 00:17:46.480 --> 00:17:49.000 their own set of ways of how to do things, 273 00:17:49.440 --> 00:17:55.079 But you don't have, Like the problems that you were 274 00:17:55.880 --> 00:18:00.720 mentioning with Flutter are not things that I believe you 275 00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:04.279 are applicable for Angler. And I think part of that 276 00:18:04.480 --> 00:18:09.799 as well is because Flutter is also built on a 277 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:15.160 programming language that is not very used outside of Flutter, right, Like, 278 00:18:15.279 --> 00:18:21.160 who else uses Dart besides Flutter developers, Like, I don't 279 00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:25.680 know any anyone else that uses Dart for anything besides 280 00:18:25.759 --> 00:18:29.920 people that that code with Flutter. But on the other hand, 281 00:18:30.279 --> 00:18:34.240 Angular is built on the it is built to run 282 00:18:34.279 --> 00:18:37.920 on the web, and thus it is just JavaScript at 283 00:18:37.920 --> 00:18:40.640 the end. Well it's actually typescript, but you get what 284 00:18:40.680 --> 00:18:43.960 I meant. It's just showscript. So you can still leverage 285 00:18:44.039 --> 00:18:47.799 the entire ecosystem of the web. You just have to 286 00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:54.039 sometimes add a few wrappers so that it so that 287 00:18:54.119 --> 00:18:58.039 it just works inside Angular, right, but you can still 288 00:18:58.240 --> 00:19:02.319 leverage all the web, which I think it's a is 289 00:19:02.400 --> 00:19:05.319 a big difference from Flutter. Right, Like I would say 290 00:19:05.359 --> 00:19:10.319 that there's a lot of things that React developers, View developers, 291 00:19:10.359 --> 00:19:13.960 Angular developers, solid developers, whatever. I think there's a lot 292 00:19:14.119 --> 00:19:19.279 that we can all share because it's just vanilla JavaScript, 293 00:19:19.480 --> 00:19:23.200 you know, vanilla web development. So anything that is vanilla 294 00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:26.279 web development anyone can use in any framework. 295 00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:27.839 The thing with. 296 00:19:28.079 --> 00:19:35.359 Flutters specifically is that there isn't much a leverage besides 297 00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:39.880 the things that were specifically built for Flutter. Would you 298 00:19:39.960 --> 00:19:42.559 say that that's true as well? Like, does that make 299 00:19:42.680 --> 00:19:46.480 sense or do you disagree with this view because you 300 00:19:46.599 --> 00:19:48.680 have more knowledge of Flutter so I might be wrong. 301 00:19:49.759 --> 00:19:53.839 No, Actually, you're one hundred percent right, And I think 302 00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:57.000 that one of the one of the areas that this 303 00:19:57.279 --> 00:19:58.279 actually really shines. 304 00:19:58.599 --> 00:20:02.599 I'll give you a proper sample. So I was working 305 00:20:02.680 --> 00:20:08.400 with how do I say, a project that has to be. 306 00:20:08.480 --> 00:20:11.839 Done in like a week, okay, so it was it 307 00:20:11.960 --> 00:20:15.079 was like four or five months ago, and it had 308 00:20:15.119 --> 00:20:17.759 to be done like instantly. I didn't have time to 309 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.480 test it properly. I didn't have to have enough time 310 00:20:20.559 --> 00:20:25.680 to to to make it look good and stuff like. 311 00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:26.960 It was just an app. 312 00:20:27.559 --> 00:20:30.960 It had just one specific functionality, like it had a 313 00:20:33.359 --> 00:20:36.920 stop watch and it would work like stop watch okay, 314 00:20:37.039 --> 00:20:41.039 and they would record something and I would record the values, 315 00:20:41.119 --> 00:20:46.559 the laps and some other stuff. And it was not 316 00:20:46.839 --> 00:20:49.640 actually that much complicated. But if I had to do 317 00:20:49.839 --> 00:20:52.880 that in React Native, I don't think I could have 318 00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:56.160 done that in a week. But I did it with 319 00:20:56.359 --> 00:21:00.119 Flutter in a week. That's because Flutter actually provides you 320 00:21:00.440 --> 00:21:04.640 with a lot of things that you can just work with, right. 321 00:21:04.880 --> 00:21:08.240 So I didn't need to update a button. 322 00:21:08.279 --> 00:21:11.319 I just wanted the button that looks like a button. Okay. 323 00:21:11.759 --> 00:21:15.200 I just needed to get stuff done. And Flatter is 324 00:21:15.279 --> 00:21:19.319 actually really perfect for that, and Flutter actually have like 325 00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:21.440 a lot of functionality under the hood. 326 00:21:21.839 --> 00:21:24.720 It also provides you with that. But when you are. 327 00:21:24.680 --> 00:21:29.599 Working with let's say and an upper level thing. 328 00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:31.160 You don't need to go down. 329 00:21:31.480 --> 00:21:35.599 You don't want to go down the the the down 330 00:21:35.759 --> 00:21:40.200 level because the down level is generally more complex. 331 00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:43.640 Let's say I was doing one small thing the other day. 332 00:21:44.200 --> 00:21:45.240 I was just trying to. 333 00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:51.839 Make the border, you know, border in a U in 334 00:21:51.960 --> 00:21:54.720 a how do I say a straight line, you know, 335 00:21:54.839 --> 00:21:58.960 instead of just radius. So I learned that you can't 336 00:21:59.160 --> 00:22:02.240 just normally do that. You need to you know, to 337 00:22:02.359 --> 00:22:05.519 create a canvas. Then you need to custom make this. 338 00:22:05.960 --> 00:22:08.839 So that was you know, Uh, I don't know. 339 00:22:10.519 --> 00:22:14.440 I mean yeah, So when when the thing that you 340 00:22:14.640 --> 00:22:18.039 work it doesn't work, you need to go a lot 341 00:22:18.119 --> 00:22:20.759 of different ways. You need to have things a bit 342 00:22:21.079 --> 00:22:24.440 to make everything perfect you want to. But when you 343 00:22:25.039 --> 00:22:28.559 need to get stuff done, Father is actually really perfect 344 00:22:28.640 --> 00:22:31.759 for that. And that's I think you made a really 345 00:22:31.799 --> 00:22:35.920 good point there. Because when it comes to angle or 346 00:22:36.160 --> 00:22:43.599 view or react. Let's say we have an animation library like, uh, what. 347 00:22:43.640 --> 00:22:45.519 Should I say? Frame or frame? 348 00:22:45.559 --> 00:22:49.519 It doesn't work with Yeah, it doesn't work with view 349 00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:52.559 or angle. It only works to react. So let's say 350 00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:55.680 any frame animation library that actually works with all of 351 00:22:55.759 --> 00:23:00.400 them because it internally it uses uses trablescript or like 352 00:23:00.480 --> 00:23:04.160 d ths or swept or anything like that that actually 353 00:23:04.240 --> 00:23:12.359 works with all View, Angular and Beact framework because internally 354 00:23:12.640 --> 00:23:16.640 it's just JavaScript. It just works, right, So even though 355 00:23:16.799 --> 00:23:20.480 you don't have a specific library for Angular, you have 356 00:23:20.759 --> 00:23:24.480 one for React, then you can. I mean, if that 357 00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:28.400 specific library wasn't built for React like it was built 358 00:23:28.440 --> 00:23:31.359 for JavaScript, then you can actually use it with javascrip, 359 00:23:31.480 --> 00:23:34.000 with Angular or View, not just React. 360 00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:35.880 But most of the time I. 361 00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:38.920 Actually saw a lot of libraries focus on React first 362 00:23:39.039 --> 00:23:43.039 then move on to the other frameworks, which is actually 363 00:23:43.039 --> 00:23:47.319 a pretty common thing. But yeah, you made a good 364 00:23:47.400 --> 00:23:50.960 point that I would flutter not being as you know, 365 00:23:51.559 --> 00:23:54.559 as consistent like with the JavaScript ecosystem. 366 00:23:54.680 --> 00:23:58.640 But one thing I'd say, though, the amount. 367 00:23:58.359 --> 00:24:02.720 Of packages that the art has sort of Flutter has, 368 00:24:03.839 --> 00:24:10.000 it's actually pretty I'd say, I don't know, it's just unbelievable. 369 00:24:11.160 --> 00:24:16.240 Where did this munch package come from? It's actually kind 370 00:24:16.279 --> 00:24:20.599 of weird, to be honest, Like it's really big. Ecosystem 371 00:24:20.720 --> 00:24:22.599 is actually really big. There are a lot of people 372 00:24:24.359 --> 00:24:27.400 developing libraries, and I don't see them on anywhere, Like 373 00:24:27.519 --> 00:24:29.440 I don't see them on YouTube, I don't see them 374 00:24:29.480 --> 00:24:33.599 on any podcasts. I don't see them on like YouTube comments. 375 00:24:33.640 --> 00:24:36.200 You know, there are a lot of people on YouTube 376 00:24:36.240 --> 00:24:39.680 governments saying yes, Reacted the best and reacnatic, these these 377 00:24:39.799 --> 00:24:41.920 and that. But I don't see a lot of people 378 00:24:42.079 --> 00:24:44.599 talking about Fludder. But when I go through the package 379 00:24:44.599 --> 00:24:49.000 store with art, I think pup dot depth. So when 380 00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:51.720 I go there, I see a lot of packages, which 381 00:24:51.799 --> 00:24:56.640 is like where did this come from? And one other 382 00:24:56.759 --> 00:25:00.319 things I would I'd like to say this doesn't mean 383 00:25:00.680 --> 00:25:04.480 that the fact that React has a lot of packages 384 00:25:04.920 --> 00:25:09.359 doesn't mean that actually they always work. I will give 385 00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:13.079 you a proper example. So last year I was working 386 00:25:13.160 --> 00:25:17.079 with a project with NFC. Do you have any idea 387 00:25:17.119 --> 00:25:17.599 with NFC? 388 00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:20.440 Yep. 389 00:25:21.839 --> 00:25:27.400 So, so with NFC you need the native support, right, 390 00:25:27.680 --> 00:25:30.920 you can't do anything with the jabascript. 391 00:25:30.720 --> 00:25:33.440 Y im sorry, Just to just to make this is 392 00:25:33.559 --> 00:25:36.720 also clear to the audience, UH, we're talking about n 393 00:25:36.880 --> 00:25:39.920 f C, not n f T. So it's not about 394 00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:45.839 uh crypto stuff. It's about being able to like magnetically 395 00:25:45.960 --> 00:25:50.200 transmit information like a credit card that has an NFC 396 00:25:51.039 --> 00:25:54.880 UH signal and then you can capture that and grab 397 00:25:54.960 --> 00:25:55.319 the data. 398 00:25:55.440 --> 00:25:55.759 That's it. 399 00:25:58.079 --> 00:26:01.200 Yes, that's that's NFCA. It's actually I think like near 400 00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:05.400 field communication or something like that. Yeah, So basically it's 401 00:26:05.400 --> 00:26:09.119