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True Murder with your host, 51 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:37.039 journalist and author Dan Zufanski. 52 00:02:46.680 --> 00:02:50.439 Good Evening. This episode of True Murder is brought to 53 00:02:50.439 --> 00:02:55.680 you by nature Box. Nature Box ships tasty and guilt 54 00:02:55.759 --> 00:03:00.000 free snacks right to your door with over one hundred 55 00:03:00.199 --> 00:03:05.240 flavors to choose from, like asiago and cheddar, cheese crisps, pistachio, 56 00:03:05.479 --> 00:03:10.479 power clusters and Big Island pineapple. You'll never get bored 57 00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:15.479 of snacking ever again. Try a nature Box for free 58 00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:19.719 by going to nature box dot com slash true Murder. 59 00:03:20.240 --> 00:03:27.800 That's nature box dot com slash true Murder. Susan Berman 60 00:03:28.039 --> 00:03:30.879 grew up in Las Vegas luxury as the daughter of 61 00:03:31.039 --> 00:03:36.599 Davy Berman, casino mogul and notorious mafia leader. After her 62 00:03:36.719 --> 00:03:41.039 father died, she learned about his mob connections. Susan then 63 00:03:41.159 --> 00:03:44.960 dedicated her life to learning about Vegas and its underworld chiefs. 64 00:03:46.080 --> 00:03:48.759 Her life took a bizarre turn in nineteen eighty two 65 00:03:49.400 --> 00:03:53.159 when Kathy Durst, the wife of her good friend Robert Durst, 66 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:57.599 mysteriously disappeared. Durst was a prime suspect, but the case 67 00:03:57.879 --> 00:04:01.800 was never solved. After the Kathy Durst case was reopened, 68 00:04:02.039 --> 00:04:04.879 the DA was about to question Susan Berman about what 69 00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:09.080 she knew regarding a phone call Kathy supposedly made to 70 00:04:09.199 --> 00:04:12.319 her medical school dean saying she was sick. It wouldn't 71 00:04:12.319 --> 00:04:16.680 be at school. That call was placed today after she 72 00:04:16.879 --> 00:04:21.759 had vanished. Soon after the Kathy Durst case was reopened, 73 00:04:21.879 --> 00:04:24.920 Susan Berman was found dead, shot in the back of 74 00:04:24.959 --> 00:04:29.600 the head. No forced entry, no robbery, nothing missing from 75 00:04:29.639 --> 00:04:33.759 her home. The book covers what led to Durst's capture. 76 00:04:34.000 --> 00:04:36.639 Police records placed him in California at the time of 77 00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:41.360 his good friend Susan Berman's murder. HBO filmmakers discovered a 78 00:04:41.439 --> 00:04:45.439 letter unknown before written by Durst to Susan, a dead 79 00:04:45.480 --> 00:04:48.279 on match to the cadaver letter police say the killer 80 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:53.360 sent before Susan's body was discovered. The book that we're 81 00:04:53.439 --> 00:04:56.639 featuring this evening is Murder of a Mafia Daughter, The 82 00:04:56.759 --> 00:05:02.680 story behind the suspicions Robert Durst murdered Susan Berman with 83 00:05:02.839 --> 00:05:06.759 my special guest journalist and author Kathy Scott. Welcome back 84 00:05:06.800 --> 00:05:08.759 to the program and thank you for agreeing to this 85 00:05:08.879 --> 00:05:10.360 interview Kathy. 86 00:05:10.120 --> 00:05:12.680 Scott, my pleasure. Thank you for having me. 87 00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:17.560 Dan, Well, thank you very much again. Robert Durst is 88 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:25.160 making you look good again. So this is fascinating how 89 00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:32.480 this case stays in the public's attention, always garnering more 90 00:05:32.639 --> 00:05:38.800 new interest because the story keeps unfolding. Let's get right 91 00:05:38.920 --> 00:05:43.439 to Susan Berman, because we've got to cover a lot 92 00:05:43.519 --> 00:05:46.639 of ground here to cover these new developments. So let's 93 00:05:46.680 --> 00:05:53.560 talk about Susan Berman. And before we talk about how 94 00:05:54.040 --> 00:05:57.160 Susan Berman met her good friend, Robert Durst, tell us 95 00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:00.199 a little bit about Susan Berman and growing up in 96 00:06:00.319 --> 00:06:04.079 the shadow or under her father being Davy Berman. So 97 00:06:04.160 --> 00:06:06.800 tell us a little bit about Susan Berman and her life. 98 00:06:07.839 --> 00:06:12.199 Our dad started out in Kansas City, New York, places 99 00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:16.240 like that, as you know, a member of the Mafia 100 00:06:16.399 --> 00:06:20.639 Jewish mob. Basically he worked for Maya Lansky and he 101 00:06:20.920 --> 00:06:25.079 was tapped to go into Las Vegas and run the 102 00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:29.800 skim at the Riviera and later the Flamingo Hotel. And 103 00:06:30.000 --> 00:06:35.519 in nineteen forty six he moved Susan and her mother, Gladys, 104 00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:40.800 who was who was a dancer, and they moved lived 105 00:06:40.800 --> 00:06:44.040 at the Ranchito Hotel, Susan was a year old, and 106 00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:49.360 she was raised as a Mob royalty and had just 107 00:06:49.439 --> 00:06:53.480 an incredible life. And you know, the day Bugsy Siegel 108 00:06:53.720 --> 00:06:58.839 was killed, Davy Berman, Susan's father took over running the 109 00:06:58.920 --> 00:07:03.000 skim at the filming a hotel, and she just he 110 00:07:03.040 --> 00:07:07.079 would they would go to Los Angeles and eat at 111 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:10.920 the best place and stay at the Beverly Hilton and 112 00:07:11.759 --> 00:07:14.319 and the bel Air and places like that. And she 113 00:07:14.600 --> 00:07:19.240 just was a spoiled, very happy little girl. And then 114 00:07:19.279 --> 00:07:23.279 her father died during surgery when she was twelve, and 115 00:07:23.519 --> 00:07:27.000 her mother committed suicide the next year when she was thirteen, 116 00:07:27.920 --> 00:07:31.199 and she went to live with her uncle Chicki, who 117 00:07:31.319 --> 00:07:33.600 worked for her father but then no longer worked for 118 00:07:33.680 --> 00:07:36.279 the mob whence he died and he took her home 119 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:39.120 to Idaho where his wife and kids were. And then 120 00:07:39.279 --> 00:07:42.959 Susan went to Chadwick High School with E Liza Minelli 121 00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:47.079 and you know, Children of Stars, and then went on 122 00:07:47.360 --> 00:07:52.800 to college. So that's basically Susan. So Susan never got 123 00:07:52.839 --> 00:07:57.480 over losing her parents and but but went into journalism 124 00:07:58.519 --> 00:08:01.079 became a writer, right. 125 00:08:01.800 --> 00:08:04.160 So she's eventually ends up at U c. 126 00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:04.519 L A. 127 00:08:04.680 --> 00:08:09.279 In California, and she meets Robert Durst. Tell us about 128 00:08:09.639 --> 00:08:13.720 Robert Durst and his background before we talk about how 129 00:08:13.839 --> 00:08:17.720 they Susan and Robert Durst met and how their relationship developed. 130 00:08:17.759 --> 00:08:19.319 So tell us a little bit about the background of 131 00:08:19.399 --> 00:08:19.959 Robert Durst. 132 00:08:20.759 --> 00:08:25.399 Well, Robert Durst is the oldest son to the Durst 133 00:08:25.560 --> 00:08:29.600 organization and Seymour Durst to you know, build half of Manhattan, 134 00:08:29.720 --> 00:08:32.679 all the high rises, the early ones, they were built 135 00:08:32.679 --> 00:08:37.360 by the Durst organization. They're worth in the billions. That's 136 00:08:37.399 --> 00:08:41.960 with the beat. And he was raised, like Susan, in 137 00:08:42.039 --> 00:08:46.639 the lap of luxury. And and he lost his mother 138 00:08:46.720 --> 00:08:49.799 at age seven when she either jumped or fell off 139 00:08:49.919 --> 00:08:55.639 the roof of their home. And then but Bobby he 140 00:08:55.840 --> 00:08:59.039 was raised and I call him Bobby Durst because that's 141 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:02.960 what Susan called them. But Durst was raised in Scarsdale, 142 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:08.480 New York, finest schools, finest prep schools, finest everything. And 143 00:09:09.559 --> 00:09:12.759 and I slowly went into working for his dad, but 144 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:16.480 he did run. He married in nineteen seventy three, I 145 00:09:16.600 --> 00:09:20.600 believe he married Kathy Durst, who was in medical school. 146 00:09:20.960 --> 00:09:22.799 And he. 147 00:09:25.240 --> 00:09:28.279 And then he for a time ran a Vermont health 148 00:09:28.360 --> 00:09:31.720 food store and then went back because he was tapped 149 00:09:31.879 --> 00:09:36.879 to one day take over the Durst organization, but Bobby 150 00:09:37.080 --> 00:09:40.240 wasn't interested. He was quiet in high school. He was 151 00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:44.679 always sort of an odd ball, whereas his brothers were outgoing, 152 00:09:44.879 --> 00:09:47.279 his younger brothers, I think he had two of them, 153 00:09:48.000 --> 00:09:52.399 and Bobby was just all People thought he was quiet, 154 00:09:52.720 --> 00:09:56.279 but he was you know, still waters run deep, but 155 00:09:56.440 --> 00:10:01.840 he was quiet and more a mysterious way. I think then, 156 00:10:02.440 --> 00:10:05.320 you know, you could say sinister too. I mean, I 157 00:10:05.639 --> 00:10:09.360 think he's sociopathic. I think it started with this childhood. 158 00:10:09.840 --> 00:10:12.279 So he was raised by a father who was distant, 159 00:10:13.000 --> 00:10:15.120 so he didn't get the nurturing, you know, at a 160 00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:19.840 long young age because his mother died. So in that 161 00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:25.440 way and Susan had had parallel sadness and loss in 162 00:10:25.559 --> 00:10:29.279 their lives and did it fully mentally and emotionally grow 163 00:10:29.399 --> 00:10:30.200 the way they should have. 164 00:10:32.919 --> 00:10:36.840 As well. We want to explain to the dynamic with 165 00:10:37.120 --> 00:10:42.639 this same or Durst family in that Doors is the oldest, 166 00:10:43.039 --> 00:10:45.720 his youngest brother is Douglas, and there's a couple other siblings, 167 00:10:46.399 --> 00:10:50.600 and with reports that at around ten years of age 168 00:10:50.679 --> 00:10:53.720 they were seeing a psychiatrist for sibling rivalry and they 169 00:10:53.840 --> 00:11:00.519 noticed some they said, almost schizophrenic tendencies and some disturbing 170 00:11:01.639 --> 00:11:04.120 characteristics that he had at a very young age. And 171 00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:07.360 and also how affected he was by his mother's death. 172 00:11:07.759 --> 00:11:10.919 Wasn't he Yes, he was, And yeah, he and his 173 00:11:11.039 --> 00:11:12.759 brother never get along. I mean, I come from a 174 00:11:12.840 --> 00:11:14.960 family of five, trust me, there are lots of fights. 175 00:11:15.440 --> 00:11:19.960 But but yeah, so I understand the sibling rivals saying 176 00:11:20.000 --> 00:11:23.799 when you're growing up. But but he he was different. 177 00:11:24.000 --> 00:11:28.480 Bobby was different, and it was you know, it's interesting 178 00:11:28.559 --> 00:11:31.639 because it's attorney now it's claiming that he has Aspergers, 179 00:11:31.799 --> 00:11:36.080 and you know, back then you didn't hear much about aspergers. 180 00:11:36.120 --> 00:11:39.240 I mean, you know, Bobby Durst is seventy just at 181 00:11:39.279 --> 00:11:43.879 his seventy second birthday in jail and thank you very much. 182 00:11:44.279 --> 00:11:49.759 But he So it's interesting as his attorneys latching onto that. 183 00:11:50.000 --> 00:11:53.200 But so there were you know, back back then, and 184 00:11:53.320 --> 00:11:56.279 those those li did to grow up the forties to fifties, 185 00:11:57.279 --> 00:12:01.120 you know, psychiatry was I mean, that's when they were 186 00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:04.240 still shocking people. So they certainly didn't have a handle 187 00:12:04.399 --> 00:12:08.639 back then, you know, the psychiatric community and what makes 188 00:12:08.720 --> 00:12:12.000 people pick necessarily. I mean, it was the same era 189 00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:15.279 that the Kennedy family, one of the daughters had a 190 00:12:15.320 --> 00:12:18.720 lobotomy and then they you know, felt bad for the 191 00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:20.799 rest of the lives that they had done that pure 192 00:12:20.879 --> 00:12:23.799 because that was one of the treatments. So theirs was 193 00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:27.919 diagnosed with lots of things, but he was basically showing 194 00:12:28.080 --> 00:12:30.519 signs very young. If you look at all the symptoms 195 00:12:30.639 --> 00:12:36.399 and signs of socio paths as being a sociopath, he 196 00:12:36.559 --> 00:12:39.159 had definitely a personality disorder. 197 00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:46.000 Just for our audience of what is Asperger syndrome, well Asberger's, I. 198 00:12:46.039 --> 00:12:47.960 Mean, I worked with somebody who had it, and I've 199 00:12:48.000 --> 00:12:51.200 got a new friend who's been diagnosed years ago with it. 200 00:12:51.559 --> 00:12:54.200 Asberger's is a form I believe. I mean, I'm not 201 00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:56.679 an expert by any mean it's a form of autism. 202 00:12:57.799 --> 00:13:02.879 But they're very, very functioning, nice people, friendly, don't you know. Sociopaths. 203 00:13:03.639 --> 00:13:07.440 Sociopaths and and and Asperger's don't go hand in hand. 204 00:13:07.519 --> 00:13:11.720 So it's an interesting defense if you if I might 205 00:13:11.879 --> 00:13:16.919 say that, but it's it certainly doesn't excuse anything because 206 00:13:17.000 --> 00:13:21.120 Asperger people with Aspergers aren't criminals. You know, they don't 207 00:13:21.159 --> 00:13:26.080 have criminal tendencies anymore than someone who's not diagnosed with Aspergers. 208 00:13:26.159 --> 00:13:30.159 So I think trying to explain his weirdness and his 209 00:13:30.559 --> 00:13:35.840 his his his personality disorder, explaining it away with Aspergers 210 00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:38.399 is quite a stretch, and it's a nice try, but 211 00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:42.759 I'm not buying it. I think I think he was showing, 212 00:13:43.559 --> 00:13:47.279 you know. I mean, he wasn't schizophrenic. You know, he 213 00:13:47.440 --> 00:13:50.120 muttered to himself, but mostly he muttered to himself, even 214 00:13:50.159 --> 00:13:52.440 as a child and as an adult, because he likes 215 00:13:52.519 --> 00:13:55.039 to mess with people's minds, and he just does it 216 00:13:55.159 --> 00:13:58.120 because he thinks it's fun to mess with people. He 217 00:13:58.320 --> 00:14:02.480 was always a loner, you know, and that is not 218 00:14:02.639 --> 00:14:06.200 a good sign. He's very intelligent. I could function if 219 00:14:06.240 --> 00:14:08.480 he wanted to, and then you have on the other hand, 220 00:14:08.840 --> 00:14:12.799 other side, he's the spoiled brat you know, growing up, 221 00:14:13.000 --> 00:14:16.240 so why work if you don't have to. So he 222 00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:20.600 never really poured himself into the Durst organization. And his 223 00:14:20.720 --> 00:14:23.480 father was hard on him and on the other boys. 224 00:14:23.679 --> 00:14:27.360 So but they turned out you know, normal, normal can be. 225 00:14:27.480 --> 00:14:30.039 I mean, no one comes out of life on scathed, 226 00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:34.120 but you know, but he was a strict father, and 227 00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:39.240 there's just you know, Dinnett was an outsider, even inside 228 00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:40.039 his own family. 229 00:14:42.480 --> 00:14:46.840 Now Durst went to UCLA and he was studying economics 230 00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:50.039 of course, to potentially be able to take over the 231 00:14:50.799 --> 00:14:56.440 family dynasty the industry, and that's where he met Susan Berman. 232 00:14:56.519 --> 00:15:00.399 So talk about how these people met and how they 233 00:15:00.440 --> 00:15:02.960 became fast friends, what do they have in common, and 234 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:05.480 tell us a little bit about their relationship. 235 00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.240 Okay, I believe he went to Lehigh University for his 236 00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:14.080 undergraduate and he he got a master's degree, and he 237 00:15:14.240 --> 00:15:17.480 went to u c l A for his doctorate or 238 00:15:17.559 --> 00:15:19.960 his master's I'm sorry, I can't remember which it's in 239 00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:23.559 the book, because I did call the universities and confirm 240 00:15:23.720 --> 00:15:26.320 his degrees. He didn't finish at u c l A. 241 00:15:26.879 --> 00:15:29.960 Het he met Susan when she was an undergrad going 242 00:15:30.039 --> 00:15:33.919 for journalism before she transferred to UC Berkeley, and they 243 00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:37.440 met in the quad, the student quad, and just hit 244 00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.799 it off immediately. He was a year or two older 245 00:15:40.879 --> 00:15:46.559 than her, and immediately they had this bond, always platonic. 246 00:15:46.840 --> 00:15:50.720 Neither one of them, you know, neither was interested, you know, 247 00:15:51.039 --> 00:15:55.440 romantically in the other. They had instantly a background of 248 00:15:55.519 --> 00:15:59.600 wealth being raised very well, and I mean she was 249 00:15:59.639 --> 00:16:02.720 a trust fund kid basically, you know, because for the 250 00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:05.799 rest of her lives, she lived off of well, until 251 00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:08.480 she was thirty, she lived off of mob money and 252 00:16:10.279 --> 00:16:13.519 because of her father's interest in hotels, and so she 253 00:16:13.840 --> 00:16:16.440 was you know, she came from wealth. They both lost 254 00:16:17.200 --> 00:16:19.440 he lost one parent, she lost two. They had this 255 00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:24.480 instant asinity and this instant connection, and they became lifelong friends. 256 00:16:24.919 --> 00:16:27.000 She called him the brother she never had. 257 00:16:28.440 --> 00:16:34.600 Now, when she decides to go into journalism and to 258 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:41.320 be a writer, tell us what Susan Berman writes about specifically. 259 00:16:42.679 --> 00:16:45.799 Well, initially she was a sort of a features writer. 260 00:16:46.000 --> 00:16:48.679 She went to work for the San Francisco Examiner and 261 00:16:48.759 --> 00:16:52.000 then wrote, and then she freelanced too. You know, she 262 00:16:52.080 --> 00:16:56.480 didn't like going to work and being you know, stuck 263 00:16:57.440 --> 00:16:59.360 day by day having to go to a job. You know, 264 00:16:59.480 --> 00:17:04.119 she likes she liked freelancing more. And straight out of 265 00:17:05.759 --> 00:17:08.519 journalism school at UC Berkeley, she got hired by the 266 00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.079 San Francisco Examiner and became a features writer then. But 267 00:17:12.240 --> 00:17:14.640 she didn't like just being a regular reporter along with 268 00:17:14.759 --> 00:17:17.720 everybody else. You know, she aspired to do bigger things, 269 00:17:18.319 --> 00:17:23.119 and so she started freelancing on the side while she 270 00:17:23.319 --> 00:17:26.440 was still at that paper, and she wrote for I 271 00:17:26.519 --> 00:17:30.720 think it was the City paper, and she wrote a 272 00:17:30.839 --> 00:17:36.400 story that was titled how to Get Laid in San Francisco, 273 00:17:36.640 --> 00:17:38.839 and it was the talk of the town and it 274 00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:42.799 went viral as things could go back then, you know, 275 00:17:42.920 --> 00:17:46.119 the old fashioned way, and you know, other newspapers wrote 276 00:17:46.160 --> 00:17:49.200 about her, and she was always in the society column 277 00:17:49.240 --> 00:17:53.440 after that. And she was and then Bobby had, you know, 278 00:17:53.680 --> 00:17:56.359 had left school and he was back in New York 279 00:17:57.119 --> 00:18:02.319 and working for his father, and so Susan wanted to, 280 00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:05.920 you know, be a journalist in New York, and she 281 00:18:06.039 --> 00:18:08.839 got hired by New York Magazine and she was she 282 00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:12.279 was there when Nicholas Polegy was a writer there. That's 283 00:18:12.279 --> 00:18:14.680 who she worked with. She went and moved to a 284 00:18:14.759 --> 00:18:18.519 studio apartment on Beakman Place, which is a real high 285 00:18:18.720 --> 00:18:21.240 end place that she was just in a little studio 286 00:18:21.960 --> 00:18:26.759 and and that was what the late seventies and uh, 287 00:18:27.400 --> 00:18:30.440 you know, mid to late seventies. And she lived in 288 00:18:30.519 --> 00:18:35.200 New York for a few years and Robert Durstin introduced 289 00:18:35.240 --> 00:18:38.680 her to the literati and you know, all the movers 290 00:18:38.759 --> 00:18:42.680 and shakers and people in the book industry, music industry. 291 00:18:42.839 --> 00:18:46.680 And she used to eat at the best restaurants, Elanes 292 00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:49.039 and whatnot. And she wrote a book while she was 293 00:18:49.119 --> 00:18:53.400 there called Easy Street, Writing to Answer Your Question, Writing 294 00:18:53.519 --> 00:18:57.160 about Las Vegas, and she wrote about Las Vegas until 295 00:18:57.200 --> 00:18:57.680 her death. 296 00:19:00.359 --> 00:19:05.079 Now Easy Street was commercially and critically accepted at that time, 297 00:19:05.319 --> 00:19:12.759 so it let her continue with her lavish lifestyle. Basically, no, but. 298 00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:15.519 She got it very large. It was three it's off 299 00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:16.960 the top of my head, but it was like three 300 00:19:17.039 --> 00:19:20.440 hundred and eighty five thousand dollars or something and advance 301 00:19:20.599 --> 00:19:26.480 for with the movie rights, and she was that was 302 00:19:26.640 --> 00:19:31.000 very exciting. She was on the Today Show for the book. 303 00:19:31.079 --> 00:19:38.160 It was very critically positively reviewed, and she was high, 304 00:19:38.599 --> 00:19:41.240 you know, high in her game, and she didn't want 305 00:19:41.279 --> 00:19:43.480 to work at New York Magazine. By that time, she 306 00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:47.319 was getting paranoid and had phobias, and one of them 307 00:19:47.559 --> 00:19:50.000 was the fear of heights. And she didn't like working 308 00:19:50.319 --> 00:19:54.559 in anything off the ground, anything above the first floor, 309 00:19:55.279 --> 00:19:57.480 and she was always afraid she'd get too close to 310 00:19:57.559 --> 00:20:02.680 a window and fall out. And so she was battling, 311 00:20:03.079 --> 00:20:06.319 you know, her phobias at that point. And then in 312 00:20:06.440 --> 00:20:09.799 nineteen eighty two, if you want to take the listeners 313 00:20:09.880 --> 00:20:12.240 to that is you know she was there at the 314 00:20:12.319 --> 00:20:15.279 time that Robert Dur's wife, Kathy disappeared. 315 00:20:17.880 --> 00:20:20.400 Now, what was the relationship between the three of them. 316 00:20:20.759 --> 00:20:23.400 She was friends with Kathy as well as Bobby. Tell 317 00:20:23.519 --> 00:20:25.000 us about that a little bit. 318 00:20:25.400 --> 00:20:28.279 Yeah, Kathy liked her. Yeah, they had mutual friends. I mean, 319 00:20:28.359 --> 00:20:30.880 Robert durstn't have I mean, his wife had a lot 320 00:20:30.960 --> 00:20:34.559 of friends, and Robert had a lot of acquaintances. And 321 00:20:34.640 --> 00:20:37.960 then Susan because she was journalist and you know, a 322 00:20:38.079 --> 00:20:41.559 top magazine, she met a lot of people. I mean 323 00:20:41.559 --> 00:20:45.279 they hung around with Lorraine Newman from Saturday Night Live 324 00:20:45.480 --> 00:20:49.359 and just a lot of big name people, you know, 325 00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:58.200 in the music and literature industry and journalism. And Bobby 326 00:20:58.319 --> 00:21:00.799 just sort of hung out with Susan, you know, at 327 00:21:00.880 --> 00:21:03.000 first she hung out with him, and then it became 328 00:21:03.119 --> 00:21:07.759 he was just always invited and she But Kathy was 329 00:21:07.799 --> 00:21:10.440 part of the circle, and she wasn't. She wasn't she 330 00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:16.240 wasn't Susan's friend necessarily, but because she was married to Robert, 331 00:21:16.799 --> 00:21:19.720 you know, she was her friend. But Kathy liked Susan. 332 00:21:19.880 --> 00:21:22.359 She never felt threatened or anything by her. But the 333 00:21:22.839 --> 00:21:25.440 friend said that he was always closer to Susan than 334 00:21:25.480 --> 00:21:28.319 he was to his own wife. And then they're having problems. 335 00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:30.920 She was in her fourty year of college. He was 336 00:21:31.000 --> 00:21:36.920 becoming abusive and she wanted to divorce. And then she 337 00:21:37.039 --> 00:21:39.559 was planning on divorcing as soon as she was finished 338 00:21:39.599 --> 00:21:42.319 with school, and she only had, you know, a few 339 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:44.680 months to go, and then you know, she turned up 340 00:21:44.720 --> 00:21:48.640 missing and they haven't ever found her remains or her 341 00:21:49.319 --> 00:21:50.880 she she was declared, I think, I. 342 00:21:50.960 --> 00:21:51.680 Said, is Ryan. 343 00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:53.200 I'm not sure if you know this about me, but 344 00:21:53.400 --> 00:21:55.319 I'm a bit of a fun fanatic when I can. 345 00:21:55.519 --> 00:21:56.880 I like to work, but I like fun too. 346 00:21:57.079 --> 00:21:57.559 It's a thing. 347 00:21:57.759 --> 00:21:59.680 And now the truth is out there, I can tell 348 00:21:59.680 --> 00:22:02.799 you about my favorite place to have fun, Chumba Casino. 349 00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:05.759 They have hundreds of social casino style games to choose from, 350 00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:08.480 with new games released each week. You can play for 351 00:22:08.599 --> 00:22:11.920 free anytime, anywhere, and each day brings a new chance 352 00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:14.880 to collect daily bonuses. So join me and the fun. 353 00:22:15.160 --> 00:22:17.920 Sign up now at Chumba Casino dot com. 354 00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.160 No, we're just necessary dad, Where everybody lost the terms 355 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:21.119 conditions eighteen plus. 356 00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:24.119 Five years ago and then ten years after she disappeared, 357 00:22:24.599 --> 00:22:29.960 DR divorced her. Let's get words, borister, even though she 358 00:22:29.960 --> 00:22:30.960 would declared dead. 359 00:22:32.599 --> 00:22:35.519 Let's go back, because this is the complicated part of 360 00:22:35.599 --> 00:22:40.599 this is the relationship Susan has with Bobby Durst and 361 00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:47.079 how she becomes his media spokesperson, being a lazy liaison 362 00:22:47.240 --> 00:22:51.160 between media and the police. And so that's how close 363 00:22:51.240 --> 00:22:52.240 we are as friends. 364 00:22:52.720 --> 00:22:55.640 No, yeah, we get a big solid yeah. 365 00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:59.680 Okay, we'll explain how that really works. And what exactly 366 00:23:00.519 --> 00:23:04.079 did she convey to the media and police as this 367 00:23:04.279 --> 00:23:07.240 go between on behalf of Robert Durst at that time. 368 00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:12.480 Well, there's didn't report his wife's missing for five days. 369 00:23:12.519 --> 00:23:17.000 And they lived they lived in Westchester County, you know, 370 00:23:17.279 --> 00:23:20.720 in New York, but they had an apartment in the 371 00:23:20.839 --> 00:23:26.440 city and Kathy and Kathy had argued and she was 372 00:23:26.519 --> 00:23:29.599 at a friend's house having at a party, and it 373 00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:32.039 was a Sunday evening and she said she had to 374 00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:35.119 get home. Durst was mad at her, and she was 375 00:23:35.480 --> 00:23:38.200 going to take the train to the city to spend 376 00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:40.720 the night in their Manhattan apartment so she could get 377 00:23:40.799 --> 00:23:44.319 up the next day and go to classes. Well, she 378 00:23:45.480 --> 00:23:48.000 nobody ever saw her again after she left the party, 379 00:23:48.119 --> 00:23:51.039 and then Durst didn't report her missing for five days, 380 00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:53.240 and then he didn't do it out of his own 381 00:23:53.279 --> 00:23:56.160 county and Westchester. He went to Manhattan. I think that 382 00:23:56.359 --> 00:23:59.559 was by design. He's a cagy guy. He wanted to 383 00:23:59.599 --> 00:24:02.119 put in in a different jurisdiction, and especially in the 384 00:24:02.440 --> 00:24:05.759 jurisdiction where his father is a very powerful, well known 385 00:24:05.839 --> 00:24:11.200 man who practically runs Manhattan. So they accepted durs explanation, 386 00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:14.519 including an alibi at certain times, which he lied, and 387 00:24:14.599 --> 00:24:20.160 he admitted on you know, a recent documentary, The Jinx, 388 00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:23.279 which is all about him, that just aired, that he 389 00:24:23.400 --> 00:24:26.920 had made that up. He admitted lying, you know, while 390 00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:32.359 he was on being taped. But so after, because of 391 00:24:32.440 --> 00:24:37.599 his name and because of his family was the media 392 00:24:37.680 --> 00:24:40.119 in New York just took off with the story. So 393 00:24:40.279 --> 00:24:42.279 he didn't want to talk to the media, so Susan 394 00:24:42.400 --> 00:24:46.400 became his spokesman. And there was also a telephone call 395 00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:52.960 the next morning after Kathy disappeared, supposedly from a woman 396 00:24:53.200 --> 00:24:56.519 saying she was Kathy Durist calling the dean of a 397 00:24:56.759 --> 00:24:59.359 medical school that she wanted to be into classes that 398 00:24:59.599 --> 00:25:04.359 week that day. Who in college calls the dean? You know, colleagues, 399 00:25:04.440 --> 00:25:06.559 kids don't have to call in and if you talk 400 00:25:06.599 --> 00:25:08.640 to anybody, it would be a professor to find out 401 00:25:08.720 --> 00:25:10.759