Speaker 1: In the last thirty years, the number of visitors to
Speaker 1: Italy each year has tripled. That has had a big
Speaker 1: impact on our experience when we get there and also
Speaker 1: on the locals who live in arguably one of the
Speaker 1: most beautiful places on Earth. On this episode of the
Speaker 1: Untold Italy podcast, we dive into the ways that we
Speaker 1: can travel more mindfully and enjoy the best of everything
Speaker 1: Italy has to offer. Despite that increasing travelers.
Speaker 2: Tawatuti and Benvenuti Tuan told Italy the travel podcast to
Speaker 2: where you go to the towns and villages, mountains and lakes,
Speaker 2: hills and coastlines of Ballet Italia. Each week, your host
Speaker 2: Katie Clark takes you on a journey in a search
Speaker 2: of magical landscapes, history, culture, wine, gelato and of course
Speaker 2: a whole lot of pasta. If you're dreaming of Italy
Speaker 2: and planning future adventures there, you've come to the right place.
Speaker 1: Jel Benvenuti Friends, I'm Katie, the founder of Untold Italy
Speaker 1: and our mission here on this podcast and with our
Speaker 1: app small group tours and trip planning services is to
Speaker 1: help you feel part of Italy, its history, culture, food
Speaker 1: and wine, and of course are its wonderful people. Traveling
Speaker 1: around Italy has been my life's passion, and I personally
Speaker 1: care very much that future generations are able to have
Speaker 1: that same opportunity. So we have a mission to travel
Speaker 1: mindfully and Untold Italy take it a little slower piano piano,
Speaker 1: and help others do the same. Joining me on this
Speaker 1: episode to explore the many ways we can savor Italy,
Speaker 1: have a wonderful time when we are there, and also
Speaker 1: contribute a little to the communities that make this experience
Speaker 1: so special is Glamor Talia guide book author Careta Cook.
Speaker 1: So adiamo, let's welcome her on to the show. Beg
Speaker 1: to Nata, Carena, welcome back to the Untold Italy Podcast.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Katie. It's wonderful to be back.
Speaker 1: No, it is always a pleasure to have you join us.
Speaker 1: And you're fresh off the plane from Italy. Can you
Speaker 1: tell us some of the highlights of this trip.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, it's all different now that I have a
Speaker 3: home there, so you know, that's pretty exciting for me.
Speaker 3: Just being at my home is really really exciting, and
Speaker 3: then packing it up to leave, I'm just like, oh gosh,
Speaker 3: I can barely breathe.
Speaker 4: So.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was great. I did all kinds of really
Speaker 3: interesting things, went to some new places. I actually, at
Speaker 3: the end of my June tours, I always like to
Speaker 3: go to the beach for a week because beach vacations
Speaker 3: are my favorite thing, and this time I went to
Speaker 3: the beach in La Marque my first time, and it
Speaker 3: was so beyond fantastic. I mean, I always have quite
Speaker 3: high expectations, but this was like a thousand times more
Speaker 3: than I thought it was going to be. And it
Speaker 3: was oh I and I'm still really really excited about it.
Speaker 3: It was fantastic and fun and ridiculously affordable. No tour busters,
Speaker 3: so there's very low tourism, or very low the international tourism.
Speaker 3: I guess you get like a lot of Europeans maybe
Speaker 3: going through there. But it just felt really special and
Speaker 3: untouched and it was so great, so great. Then now
Speaker 3: I'm home and I'm you know, got this new kind
Speaker 3: of jet lag that I've started getting the last couple
Speaker 3: of years where coming back, I wake up at like
Speaker 3: three thirty in the morning or whatever, and I'm wide awake.
Speaker 1: You're always smiling, and we love all your adventures, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure we'll get into a few of those later,
Speaker 1: but let's start with a quick recap introduction. I've given
Speaker 1: everyone the thirty second summary, but can you remind our
Speaker 1: listeners and especially the new ones, about who you are and.
Speaker 4: What you do.
Speaker 3: Yes, my name's Karina Cook, and I write a best
Speaker 3: selling book series called the Glamatalia how to Travel Italy books,
Speaker 3: and they approach travels slightly differently, and that they are
Speaker 3: all about showing you places that you don't know inside
Speaker 3: of the big famous cities. So whether you're in Rome
Speaker 3: or in Florence or Venice or wherever you are, there's
Speaker 3: so many fantastic things to do that most tourists don't
Speaker 3: know about, so you don't need to be in crowds
Speaker 3: all the time. You can be off seeing equally spellbinding
Speaker 3: things and having all these incredible experiences with not a
Speaker 3: whole lot of people around you. So that's kind of
Speaker 3: what I do. I also lead small group tours for
Speaker 3: women called the Glamytalia Tours, and that's about it.
Speaker 1: She's a very busy lady and very inspiring and we
Speaker 1: often ask Karina to join us to chat about practical
Speaker 1: planning tribes to make the most of your time in Italy.
Speaker 4: Or her favorite places.
Speaker 1: But today we're going to switch tack a little and
Speaker 1: talk about something that we're both passionate about, and that's
Speaker 1: how we can travel and truly enjoy ourselves and not
Speaker 1: be part of an ever growing problem of over tourism
Speaker 1: and all the associated problems that that entails. So some
Speaker 1: people call that sustainable travel or responsible travel, and I think,
Speaker 1: you know, that's probably a nice label to put on it,
Speaker 1: but I wanted to put a touch point in it
Speaker 1: before we start this chat. Is that over the weekend,
Speaker 1: the past weekend that's just gone past, thousands of people
Speaker 1: in Spain protested in Barcelona against over tourism. And what
Speaker 1: they did was they actually soaked tourists with water pistols
Speaker 1: and they like drenched them and really they were not
Speaker 1: made to feel welcome, and I think, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't think that was a great experience for anyone there,
Speaker 1: And it really does come back to this problem of
Speaker 1: these popular cities in Europe that are becoming more and
Speaker 1: more inundated with tourists, and you know, it's impacting the
Speaker 1: lifestyle and the lives of the people there. So you
Speaker 1: know what the good news is, because you know, that
Speaker 1: was a pretty crazy story. I thought that according to
Speaker 1: a recent survey by the accommodation sidebooking dot Com, seventy
Speaker 1: six percent of travelers said they want.
Speaker 4: To travel more sustainably in the future.
Speaker 1: But the problem that they were having is that fifty
Speaker 1: one percent of travelers believe there aren't enough sustainable travel options.
Speaker 1: So hopefully during this chat, we can reveal some of
Speaker 1: those options to you, because there are a lot of
Speaker 1: simple ways that we can take. And I know Karina
Speaker 1: has got some excellent ideas to enhance and not compromise
Speaker 1: your travels at all, but actually make them the best
Speaker 1: travels you've ever had. So I know you, Karina, have
Speaker 1: a lot of thoughts on the Soul'll let you get started.
Speaker 3: I will say that, you know, for years, people used
Speaker 3: to try and talk to me about sustainable travel, and
Speaker 3: I felt like it was those religious door knockers. I'm
Speaker 3: trying to say something like, as soon as something would
Speaker 3: bring it up, I would like do anything I could
Speaker 3: to get out of that room. I didn't want to
Speaker 3: have somebody talking at me about stuff. And then I
Speaker 3: actually watched a YouTube thing. This is years and years
Speaker 3: ago by accident, but this guy was a travel specialiste.
Speaker 3: Hem was very interesting, and then I realized that sustainable
Speaker 3: travel was exactly what I was doing. I just didn't
Speaker 3: want to call it that. They need somebody to make
Speaker 3: it like a sexy name for it, not sustainable travel,
Speaker 3: because it sounds so so off putting. But really what
Speaker 3: it is is traveling in a way that you don't
Speaker 3: damage the place that you're in. And I think that,
Speaker 3: you know, it's actually really easy to do. It's how
Speaker 3: I have always traveled without realizing that's what I was doing.
Speaker 3: And I think for the end user that being the traveler,
Speaker 3: your experience is so much better for it. You know,
Speaker 3: it's so well worthwhile doing. And it's very very small,
Speaker 3: small small adjustments. I've found with my tour groups over
Speaker 3: the years. When I will say to them, oh, you
Speaker 3: know what we should make we do this this way
Speaker 3: and explain it to them, they straight away get it
Speaker 3: and we're like, oh god, no, I don't want to
Speaker 3: be a problem. I want to be one of the
Speaker 3: good guys. So it's all like really easy stuff. But
Speaker 3: it kind of starts off with why do we travel?
Speaker 3: And we travel internationally so that we can experience something
Speaker 3: different than what we have at home. So the first
Speaker 3: thing we need to do is value what it is
Speaker 3: that we're coming to see. The second thing when it
Speaker 3: comes to Italy is I think we really need to
Speaker 3: stop and think about when we dream about going to Italy,
Speaker 3: what is it that we are dreaming about. Are we
Speaker 3: dreaming about being squashed inside of crowds with like those
Speaker 3: headset things in your ears and trying to remember what
Speaker 3: color flag the person's waving today and make sure you're
Speaker 3: following them. Or are we actually really dreaming about rolling
Speaker 3: hills and Tuscany and vineyards and olive groves and beautiful
Speaker 3: old buildings and wandering little streets full of history. And
Speaker 3: I think it's about aligning actual travels more with those
Speaker 3: dreams that we have, so we see that Italy and
Speaker 3: it's really easy to do even inside the big crowded cities,
Speaker 3: So we can have that experience inside of Florence and
Speaker 3: Rome and Venice no problem at all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think really what's happened in recent years
Speaker 1: especially is that we're actually told what we want very dramatically,
Speaker 1: Like you just have to spend you know, like half
Speaker 1: an hour scrolling on Instagram and you're basically rolled into
Speaker 1: what your dreams are. But I think we need to
Speaker 1: take back some agency around what it is that we
Speaker 1: actually enjoy and not be told what it is to
Speaker 1: enjoy because things becoming more and more homogenized in this world.
Speaker 1: And I think if you do a quick google of anything,
Speaker 1: you're going to come up with a list of things
Speaker 1: to do in Rome on the first ten websites, and
Speaker 1: every every leasty're going to have exactly the same thing.
Speaker 1: So you automatically, your brain is just keeps telling you, well,
Speaker 1: this is what I should be doing. But I think
Speaker 1: we all have agency and we can all take a
Speaker 1: big step back and say, what is it that I enjoy?
Speaker 1: For me, I love food and history and they're probably
Speaker 1: my two main motivations for travel. But some people might
Speaker 1: love being in nature or exploring.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I know we had some guests that went to Pied
Speaker 1: they loved dark magic and that was their passion.
Speaker 3: Oh how cool.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I think it does get difficult for someone who's coming
Speaker 3: for the first time and they think, well, what am
Speaker 3: I supposed to see? And it's really easy to just
Speaker 3: go well, I'm going to go on this tour, this
Speaker 3: mess and big bus tour, or I'm going to go
Speaker 3: on this cruise and it's going to take me around Italy,
Speaker 3: and I have these day trips in and out, and
Speaker 3: I think those are the most toxic ways to travel,
Speaker 3: you know. There, Their position is, why don't you worry.
Speaker 3: We're going to show you what you want to see.
Speaker 3: We're going to show you the things you need to see.
Speaker 3: And they've got this prefabricated list of places that you're
Speaker 3: going to see inside of each city that have exactly
Speaker 3: nothing to do with your personal interests. It's just like,
Speaker 3: push all these people in and you'll find that all
Speaker 3: the big tour companies send everybody into these same handful
Speaker 3: of locations within the city, and so the traveler's end
Speaker 3: user experience is that they are just surrounded by crowds
Speaker 3: and it's hot and it's sweaty, and they're tired, and
Speaker 3: the only food places are available nearby where they are
Speaker 3: are overpriced tourist joints, and so they come away from
Speaker 3: it with a lesser experience. They've paid a lot of
Speaker 3: money for their trip and they come away with a
Speaker 3: lesser experience, and they've kind of been part of the
Speaker 3: problem because that is just not sustainable. So I think
Speaker 3: that you know, some of the big things are making
Speaker 3: and move more towards small group tourism where kind of
Speaker 3: like what you and I do, where it's more specific
Speaker 3: to certain people's interests. Also maybe looking a little bit
Speaker 3: more broadly at some of these cities and seeing what
Speaker 3: else there is to offer. Now, obviously, if you're going
Speaker 3: to Rome, it would be madness to not go to
Speaker 3: the Coliseum. I still go to the Colisseum virtually every
Speaker 3: day that I'm in Rome. I've got walking past it
Speaker 3: and go see it and do all this stuff because
Speaker 3: I still can't believe that it's there and I get
Speaker 3: to look at it. But there's so many other things
Speaker 3: to do as well. So it's just a little bit
Speaker 3: of it exploring a little bit, seeking out a little
Speaker 3: bit more knowledge maybe, I mean, if.
Speaker 1: You're really interested in ancient Rome. And we have quite
Speaker 1: a few podcast episodes on the secret things to do
Speaker 1: in Rome. But I recently went to Palazzo Massimo, which
Speaker 1: is a treasure trove of ancient Roman art, which.
Speaker 3: Is and where they're like ten other people there, fifteen
Speaker 3: other people in the middle of June.
Speaker 1: It was crazy, and I loved every second of it.
Speaker 1: Like you're sort of thinking, is this real, Like, because
Speaker 1: they've actually kept a lot of these treasures in this
Speaker 1: museum because they want to keep them safe, right, And
Speaker 1: then they've got too many treasures. So you wander over
Speaker 1: the road to the Bars of Diocletian, they just got.
Speaker 4: Them all hanging out.
Speaker 1: I'm just like, ah, we don't really know what to
Speaker 1: do with these, so we're just going to put them
Speaker 1: in the garden.
Speaker 3: And I mean, like, those places absolutely blow my mind.
Speaker 3: And anytime I take any of my tour travelers there
Speaker 3: or I'll often have people reach out to me on
Speaker 3: social media or like it. In my Rome book, I
Speaker 3: talk about these places and people will say to me,
Speaker 3: oh my god, this was the greatest thing. Like I'm
Speaker 3: getting my hat pounding just talking about it. But you
Speaker 3: get so excited because you're seeing some of the greatest
Speaker 3: stuff in Rome and you're the only person there. So
Speaker 3: there's just so many options of things to do. And
Speaker 3: the thing is when you're doing things like that, when
Speaker 3: you're going to Palazzo Massimo, in the bars of the Accletian,
Speaker 3: or the bars of Caracala or Palazzo al Temple. I mean,
Speaker 3: I can make a huge list of places in Rome
Speaker 3: to go to where there's really anybody there. There are
Speaker 3: astounding places to see, and the act of going there
Speaker 3: is what's called sustainable travel. You know, you've you've not
Speaker 3: been weighing down these over touristic places. You're going to
Speaker 3: somewhere less traveled within this big city. You know, that's
Speaker 3: oftentimes just across the street from the most prowded places,
Speaker 3: and your dollars are going into your travel, dollars are
Speaker 3: going into supporting those places and keeping them running. And
Speaker 3: you know it's the tiniest action, but it's so sustainable.
Speaker 3: You know, it's the epitome of sustainable travel. And everybody
Speaker 3: wins because you're getting this most amazing experience. Like, have
Speaker 3: you been to Palazzo Alta, Yes, somewhere.
Speaker 4: There as well.
Speaker 3: Oh, like, that's another one of my favorites. And so
Speaker 3: for your listeners, it's at the top end of Piazza Navonna,
Speaker 3: which is perhaps the prettiest piazza in all of Rome,
Speaker 3: and it gets very busy. You cross the street and
Speaker 3: there you'll see the big sign for Palazzo altant and
Speaker 3: so you leave the crowds across the street and there's
Speaker 3: I mean half the time that I go there, there's
Speaker 3: almost nobody there and just staggering, absolutely brain bending, endless
Speaker 3: ancient Roman statues and inside this building that is just
Speaker 3: devastatingly beautiful. And so you're getting this full round, rich,
Speaker 3: robust Roman experience. You're really getting to see ancient Rome,
Speaker 3: just as you can at Barsa, Decletian and Palazo Massimol.
Speaker 3: But I feel like you get time to stop and
Speaker 3: look at these statues and things from every different angle
Speaker 3: and to just breathe them in and enjoy them and
Speaker 3: move through a leisurely placed rather than having to be
Speaker 3: hustle through because it's another thousand people coming behind you.
Speaker 4: And it really is.
Speaker 1: I mean, the Colosseum has got apparently up to thirty
Speaker 1: thousand visitors a day and only three thousand, only three
Speaker 1: thousand can be in there at one time. It's really busy.
Speaker 1: And look, you know, it's one thing you definitely have
Speaker 1: to experience at once in your lifetime. And I think
Speaker 1: walking out on that arena and pretending that you're a
Speaker 1: galadiator is one of those top.
Speaker 4: Moments in life.
Speaker 1: But you know, there's so much to do, and the
Speaker 1: Colosseum itself is one of the world's most iconic monuments
Speaker 1: of course, and unfortunately it's so iconic that it's almost
Speaker 1: like the Ministry of Culture in Italy doesn't really know
Speaker 1: what to do with it, because I mean, for me,
Speaker 1: I get a little bit worried when I go there
Speaker 1: because I'm thinking, Wow, this is so precious. This is
Speaker 1: such an amazing testament to human ingenuity that it actually
Speaker 1: survived for you know, two thousand years, even though it's
Speaker 1: been ransacked and trashed and it's been the home for
Speaker 1: you know, they've made it into a farm and.
Speaker 4: All sorts of things.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I mean, are we really respecting and like,
Speaker 1: this is not an answer for anyone here. I think
Speaker 1: the Italian government really needs to have a look at
Speaker 1: some of these amazing cultural treasures that they have and
Speaker 1: how they really manage them going forward, because they need
Speaker 1: to do a better job, in my opinion, of advertising
Speaker 1: what else is available, because I don't think they do
Speaker 1: the best job of that, to be honest with you,
Speaker 1: and I think they rest on pretty is there, saying
Speaker 1: is and really promote the obvious stuff when they could
Speaker 1: be doing a better job of letting people know about
Speaker 1: the amazing Palazzo Massimo and all the different Roman baths,
Speaker 1: and all of those things will return in a moment
Speaker 1: with the rest of the episode. If you've been dreaming
Speaker 1: of experiencing Italy the way it's meant to be lived, slow, unhurried,
Speaker 1: and with locals who open their homes and hearts, Our
Speaker 1: Untold Italy tours are now open for twenty twenty six
Speaker 1: and beyond. We hand every detail so you can just
Speaker 1: show up and soak in the magic. Spots are limited
Speaker 1: and many field months in advance. Check the link in
Speaker 1: the show notes or visit untotally tools dot com for details.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think also the tour companies and the cruise
Speaker 3: ship companies like they're taking the easy way out. They
Speaker 3: just send them on in, like busload after busload after busload,
Speaker 3: and they don't care. They've already got your money, so
Speaker 3: don't care what your experience is. So if you're standing
Speaker 3: there amongst thousands of people, they don't care. You know
Speaker 3: better if they were offering people all these different things
Speaker 3: and saying to them, hey, you can do this or
Speaker 3: you can do these things, and like just explaining to
Speaker 3: people some of the different things that are available. I mean,
Speaker 3: I was I'll get off the coliseum in one second,
Speaker 3: but I was horrified. In June, I was there with
Speaker 3: some friends who are working on another project, and we're
Speaker 3: walking around the back of the coliseum and I was
Speaker 3: watching all these cruise ship groups that was from Norwegian Cruises,
Speaker 3: and I was watching them like they were all filing along.
Speaker 3: First of all, there was group twenty three, because I
Speaker 3: was watching the paddle with twenty three on it, and
Speaker 3: I was horrified that all these people were so intently
Speaker 3: following number twenty three and making sure that they were
Speaker 3: not losing sight of number twenty three, that none of
Speaker 3: them looked over to their right and paid one second
Speaker 3: attention to this two thousand year old building that is
Speaker 3: one of the great wonders of the world. And then
Speaker 3: I so I was saying to my friends, I'm like,
Speaker 3: look at these idiots on group twenty three. How can
Speaker 3: you possibly walk past this and not look at it
Speaker 3: like it's the beginning of the day. They haven't been
Speaker 3: in there yet or anything. How can you possibly do that?
Speaker 3: And then my friend Melissa's like, well, look at group
Speaker 3: sixteen and they're going the opposite way. It's same thing,
Speaker 3: and they're so intently watching that paddle because if they
Speaker 3: get separated from their group. You know, that's going to
Speaker 3: be a disaster for them that they're missing the fact
Speaker 3: that hey, wait up a moment, look at what you're
Speaker 3: going past. And I found that just so sad, I think.
Speaker 4: I'll come down to agency as well.
Speaker 1: Like you, we have our own we can make our
Speaker 1: own decisions about the experiences.
Speaker 4: That we want to have.
Speaker 1: And you know, I think it's easy to go for
Speaker 1: a package in many different senses, you know, to get
Speaker 1: that whole package and say yes, that's what I want.
Speaker 1: But if you'd have to take a little time, it
Speaker 1: maybe is a little bit more confronting. So what are
Speaker 1: some of the choices that we can.
Speaker 3: Make that brings it around The next point I wanted
Speaker 3: to bring up, And if you've heard me here on
Speaker 3: the podcast before, you will have heard me say this before,
Speaker 3: but I think it is the most crucial thing when
Speaker 3: you're planning a overseas trip and when you're planning on
Speaker 3: coming to Italy, because obviously you've saved up. Like very
Speaker 3: few people just like write a check and be like,
Speaker 3: oh yeah, I've got like a few thousand spare and
Speaker 3: it's going to jump on this. Most people have done
Speaker 3: some saving up and they've done some sacrificing to get
Speaker 3: to come on these trips. But I think the most
Speaker 3: important thing is right at the get go, when you
Speaker 3: make that decision you want to come to Italy, sit
Speaker 3: down and start writing a list of the experiences you
Speaker 3: want to have, because I guarantee you you're not going
Speaker 3: to write down on your list. I want to be
Speaker 3: stuck in a crowd and like desperately trying to follow
Speaker 3: paddle number twenty three and not get lost. So let's
Speaker 3: look at what those things are. And it might be
Speaker 3: that you want to see some historic sites in Rome,
Speaker 3: and maybe you want to see some interesting old art,
Speaker 3: and maybe you want to go to a winery, and
Speaker 3: maybe you want to have the experience of dining alfresco
Speaker 3: somewhere beautiful, sitting in some lovely piazza. And you start
Speaker 3: making a list of these things. And then once you've
Speaker 3: got your list kind of nice and fat and round
Speaker 3: with all these things that you'd be interested in doing,
Speaker 3: we can now cater a trip that is based on
Speaker 3: your interests, not based on what some tour company is
Speaker 3: telling you. All these are the five things you need
Speaker 3: to see in this city. And I think that changes everything, right,
Speaker 3: there in them. You know, you always hear people say,
Speaker 3: oh my god, I don't want to go inside at
Speaker 3: another church. All that just tells you right there that
Speaker 3: they were on the wrong trip. If it's taking them
Speaker 3: in and out of endish churches and they're not interested
Speaker 3: in churches, you know, maybe go see one, or like
Speaker 3: I always, especially in Florence, I try and get people
Speaker 3: inside churches because that's where the great art is. But
Speaker 3: you know, you really need to be more of an
Speaker 3: advocate for yourself to actually go and see and do
Speaker 3: things that you are interested in. I often see, for example,
Speaker 3: at the Ufitteci in Florence. I won't go there unless
Speaker 3: it's like January February, just because it's so overcrowded. But
Speaker 3: it's not overcrowded with art lovers who are bouncing out
Speaker 3: of their minds, going, oh my god, look at what
Speaker 3: I'm seeing. Look at I can't believe I'm actually seeing
Speaker 3: this in real life. That's not who's there. It's people
Speaker 3: who their cruise ship day trip into Rome or they're
Speaker 3: into Florence, or their bus trip into Florence or whatever
Speaker 3: whatever this thing that they're on on there is. You
Speaker 3: have to go to the ufet SI, so they don't
Speaker 3: have any interest in art, but it's number three on
Speaker 3: the list, and then after that they're going to be
Speaker 3: going to the next thing, and so they're just kind
Speaker 3: of filing past and taking up space and bringing this
Speaker 3: background to sustainability that's completely not sustainable. It means it
Speaker 3: puts too much pressure on these locations, too many people
Speaker 3: coming in, too much weight on those floors, whereas if
Speaker 3: it was only the people that were really interested in
Speaker 3: the art that were going there, you would have vastly
Speaker 3: fewer people. And then the people who are not interested
Speaker 3: in art can actually be spending these hours of their
Speaker 3: Italian vacation doing something that's of interest to them. And
Speaker 3: I think that that's so important.
Speaker 1: I think as well, you know, everyone's sort of on
Speaker 1: I remember when I first started these podcasts, we'd chalk
Speaker 1: the less about places and places to go and least
Speaker 1: ticking around places to go, and then we started to
Speaker 1: talking about experiences. But what I've really noticed lately is
Speaker 1: that people are doing list ticking of experiences. So they're
Speaker 1: wanting to do a cooking class in Italy and it's like, well,
Speaker 1: that's great, and do you really love cooking or because
Speaker 1: if you don't, why are you feeling like you have
Speaker 1: to do a cooking class because it's not the most
Speaker 1: budget thing that you can do.
Speaker 4: I mean, I like cooking.
Speaker 1: I love it and it's fun and I like to
Speaker 1: learn different things. But that's for me because I'm really
Speaker 1: interested in food where the produce has come from. But
Speaker 1: if you're not interested in it, I think, don't add
Speaker 1: that to your list because it's just not you know.
Speaker 1: Or maybe you will get inspired. I mean this is
Speaker 1: like an open conversation. Maybe you will, but I think
Speaker 1: for me it's about learning different techniques and things and understanding, Well,
Speaker 1: if I'm going to go to Rome, I want to
Speaker 1: learn how to make the Roman pastors, which Nazim's talked
Speaker 1: about a lot on this show, and I don't I
Speaker 1: really want to do that when I'm in Venice because
Speaker 1: that's not what they're known for.
Speaker 4: Right.
Speaker 1: So Yeah, so I think just be really curious, Like
Speaker 1: curiosity is the real driver here. If we can all
Speaker 1: be a little bit more curious, then we will find
Speaker 1: the doors open and we'll find the experiences that we're
Speaker 1: truly looking for.
Speaker 3: Yeah. For example, if you enjoy cars, so I'll put
Speaker 3: a training up to modern go up and see Ferrari
Speaker 3: and Lamborghini and Baghani and like, go have that experience,
Speaker 3: because that's going to fill you up, and you're going
Speaker 3: to be so thrilled that you've been and seen this
Speaker 3: cool thing that means something to you. Like, don't let
Speaker 3: your trip be filled up with things that don't mean
Speaker 3: something to you, because then again, we get to this
Speaker 3: situation where we've got two larger crowds all weighing down
Speaker 3: a small area. And then what happens when you have
Speaker 3: those crowds, those crowds while they're waiting hours to get
Speaker 3: inside somewhere or waiting in line to get inside somewhere,
Speaker 3: they're not participating in the local economy. You know, you're
Speaker 3: not in the shops, you're not buying gelato, you're not
Speaker 3: doing these other things. You're just standing there. And that's
Speaker 3: very non sustainable as well. I have this whole whole
Speaker 3: thing with sustainable travel where I believe that every dollar
Speaker 3: you spend either has a positive or a negative impact
Speaker 3: on the place that you're in. So I'm not talking
Speaker 3: about the country as a whole. I'm talking about this
Speaker 3: little town that you're standing in right here, right now,
Speaker 3: So if you make the decision that every dollar I
Speaker 3: spend is going to have a positive impact, then it
Speaker 3: changes how you spend those dollars. You're not going to
Speaker 3: be wanting to spend money to stand there in line
Speaker 3: for an hour for something that you're not really interested in.
Speaker 3: You're more likely to spend those dollars on something that
Speaker 3: does interest you. One of the examples I love to
Speaker 3: give is with gelato, because it costs WoT two bucks
Speaker 3: for a gelato cost the same if you go to
Speaker 3: an additional place where it's made on site and it's
Speaker 3: fresh made, or if you go to an industrial place
Speaker 3: where it's you know, chemically made ice cream. And I
Speaker 3: think you've had you've had episodes about gelato, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we can educate you on that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so we know the difference between the two. So
Speaker 3: the difference with the sustainability equation and making those two
Speaker 3: dollars or two euros count is that if you go
Speaker 3: and you buy that chemical, you know, mass manufactured ice
Speaker 3: cream product, then those two euros that you're spending aren't
Speaker 3: landing on the ground in this town that you're in.
Speaker 3: Will use Florence for an example. They're not landing in Florence.
Speaker 3: They're just going after some chemical factory. Whereas if you
Speaker 3: go to an ourtiginal gelato shop and they are everywhere
Speaker 3: like and Italians won't eat the manufactured stuff, they eat
Speaker 3: the real stuff. Then that two euros that you're spending
Speaker 3: for your gelato is actually impacting real people's lives because
Speaker 3: a real person Amen was making that gelato this morning.
Speaker 3: They're making it with ingredients, so like a strawberry gelato,
Speaker 3: for example, from an oartiganal place, it's actually made with
Speaker 3: strawberries that a farmer grew. So like of your two euros,
Speaker 3: part of that is going to a farmer, part of
Speaker 3: it's going to another farmer that the milk has come from.
Speaker 3: Part of it is going to the guy that did
Speaker 3: the churning in like did the making of the product.
Speaker 3: It's only two euros, but it's made a difference, and
Speaker 3: it's just little things like that when you get that
Speaker 3: awareness that you can make all the difference in the world.
Speaker 3: And you might say, well two euros is neither here
Speaker 3: nor there. Well, fack to that out by ten thousand
Speaker 3: people going into one little gelato shop over the course
Speaker 3: of the year, and yeah, it's made a huge difference.
Speaker 4: Arina. Have you read Atomic Habits by James Clear He's.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, you know what's crazy? Like I do
Speaker 3: masterclass and last night I just started his master class.
Speaker 1: Ah okay, yeah, because it's a really interesting book. And
Speaker 1: what it's saying is like little little changes and just
Speaker 1: consistently little by little, if you change your habits, then
Speaker 1: it's going to eventuate into a big change. So I
Speaker 1: feel like that's a really important message here, is that
Speaker 1: we can all do like small things. You know, we're
Speaker 1: not going to hit the mark one hundred percent of
Speaker 1: the time, no one's perfect. But if we can make
Speaker 1: like some small changes, like you say, to buy the
Speaker 1: artisanal gelato, which by the way, is delicious and way
Speaker 1: more delicious than then the bright blue before well, which
Speaker 1: is a smurf flavor. Could I just always laugh and
Speaker 1: I see it, I'm like, well that can't taste good.
Speaker 3: I think every food choice you make in Italy, because again,
Speaker 3: you didn't fly across the world to come to Italy
Speaker 3: to eat something that's come out of an industrial sized
Speaker 3: can you know? You came over here to eat real
Speaker 3: Italian food. So making that teeny tiny choice that you're
Speaker 3: going to eat where the Italians eat, because they don't
Speaker 3: eat in the tourist joint. Again, you've just changed the
Speaker 3: equation so well, normally the tourist joints are going to
Speaker 3: cost a little bit more, but let's just say it's
Speaker 3: fourteen euros for a bowl of pasta. If you have
Speaker 3: made that decision that you're only going to eat where
Speaker 3: the Italians eat, and you go into the little local
Speaker 3: trattoria and you have your pasta there, guess what, You've
Speaker 3: just changed the world again because now like there was
Speaker 3: somebody that made that pasta by hand this morning, there
Speaker 3: was somebody that made that source. There's you know, owners,
Speaker 3: and they're like tend to be owner operated rather than
Speaker 3: being part of a chain. There's so many humans that
Speaker 3: have come in contact with the making of that bowl
Speaker 3: of pasta that's now sitting steaming in front of you.
Speaker 3: Your end user experience is a thousand times better because
Speaker 3: you're getting the real deal, and it's the real deal
Speaker 3: Italian waiters that are serving you, and that's a real deal,
Speaker 3: crazy Italian stuff going on all around you. So your
Speaker 3: whole experience is fantastic and it's so much bigger than
Speaker 3: if you're stopped at that tourist joint and there's pictures
Speaker 3: on the menu and catch up on the table.
Speaker 4: Oh god forbid McDonald's. Look.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it's true, even the most dedicated of Italian food
Speaker 1: lovers do after a few weeks in Italy find that
Speaker 1: they need to try something different. But you really just
Speaker 1: need to change regions and if you want to find
Speaker 1: out more about that. We've got so many podcast episodes
Speaker 1: on about the different regions and their different food culture
Speaker 1: and the dishes that they like to eat, and most
Speaker 1: recently got one on Poolia, which is mind blowing. It's like,
Speaker 1: if you're vegan, if you're vegetarian, Pullier is a place
Speaker 1: to be anyway, Yeah, Karina food absolutely, what else have
Speaker 1: you got?
Speaker 3: Also, I think making conscious decisions about where you're shopping,
Speaker 3: and this is one that again people don't think about
Speaker 3: until you tell them. Once you tell them, you're like,
Speaker 3: oh okay, I get it. And that is you don't
Speaker 3: want to be spending your money in they're made in
Speaker 3: China kiosks. Like with buying junk stuff that's made in China.
Speaker 3: You didn't come all the way to Italy to buy
Speaker 3: some piece of junk made somewhere else. To take home
Speaker 3: as a souvenir. You want to shop at Italian places,
Speaker 3: ideally shopping with artisans, because part of what is alluring
Speaker 3: to us with coming there is all these specialty things
Speaker 3: that they make, that they've been making for centuries, that
Speaker 3: they're brilliant at that actually involve a human doing stuff
Speaker 3: versus a machine, you know, and a factory sweatshop across
Speaker 3: the world. So again, it's a little thing. And I'll
Speaker 3: say that to my true people if they want to
Speaker 3: go and buy something at a kiosk, I'll be like,
Speaker 3: you know, no, that's made in China. Let's go here
Speaker 3: into this little shop instead, and you've got stuff that's
Speaker 3: all locally made. Again, everyone straight away like, oh yeah,
Speaker 3: I want to do that, and they're happy because the
Speaker 3: thing that they're taking home. You know, maybe it's a
Speaker 3: lot of my people like buying those wooden cutting boards
Speaker 3: that are made from local olive wood and it's tangible
Speaker 3: and it's real. And I was in Italy and this
Speaker 3: is from Italian olive wood, and look at this thing
Speaker 3: I got, Versus look at this T shirt I bought
Speaker 3: that's made in China and it's going to shrink when
Speaker 3: I throw it in the marsh. You know, so little
Speaker 3: things like that. Just making these little decisions about where
Speaker 3: you put your money is extraordinarily sustainable and everybody wins.
Speaker 3: The town that you're in wins, and you win exactly.
Speaker 1: You know, every time you get at that chopping board,
Speaker 1: which is probably every day, I feel like us in
Speaker 1: you you know, cut a piece of cheese or you're
Speaker 1: chopping up some vegetables.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's there. You're looking at it.
Speaker 1: Instead of like a you know, a plastic key ring
Speaker 1: that's going to break after you.
Speaker 3: Know exactly, or even buying you know, a handpainted ceramic
Speaker 3: cup that you have your coffee in every day, every day,
Speaker 3: it's going to take you back to that moment wherever
Speaker 3: you were in Italy where you bought that cup, and
Speaker 3: I can be like, I'm laughing because that's what I do.
Speaker 1: Before we continue, here are a few messages for on
Speaker 1: the go, curated travel tips, restaurant recommendations and fun things
Speaker 1: to do in classic and hidden spots across Italy. Download
Speaker 1: the Untold Italy app link in the show notes.
Speaker 3: Every day in America, my coffee is in a hand
Speaker 3: painted ceramic cup that I actually bought in Sicily a
Speaker 3: million years ago. But every day it gives me that
Speaker 3: little oh like I think about where I was when
Speaker 3: I got it and how fantastic it was, and again
Speaker 3: it's the same like that would have been the same
Speaker 3: five or ten euros that I could have otherwise spent
Speaker 3: on some stupid junk. That five or ten euros whatever
Speaker 3: it cost me back then went right down there, right
Speaker 3: into that local economy. And again that is one of
Speaker 3: the most sustainable things that you can do, and everybody
Speaker 3: wins exactly.
Speaker 1: So I think the Italians do a really, really good
Speaker 1: job of making it easy to eat well and sustainably
Speaker 1: and with local seasonal ingredients. So the thing about Italy
Speaker 1: is that if you're getting say artichokes in autumn, you
Speaker 1: have to really think to yourself hmm, because artichokes are
Speaker 1: spring vegetable, so you can quickly tell you where you
Speaker 1: are getting that seasonal produce.
Speaker 4: So that's great.
Speaker 1: Also with the artisan goods, they've got such a great
Speaker 1: tradition of that, and everywhere you go there's some either
Speaker 1: some linens or some ceramics or something leather, paper goods,
Speaker 1: so many beautiful artisan wears that you can acquire when
Speaker 1: you're in Italy. One thing that they don't do very well,
Speaker 1: and it actually drives me absolutely crazy, is the amount
Speaker 1: of plastic water bottles that they have and there is
Speaker 1: absolutely no need for it in most places, and so
Speaker 1: what do you think about that, Carena.
Speaker 3: So that's actually it was on my list of things
Speaker 3: to talk about, and it's something that I do with
Speaker 3: my tour groups as well, and that is you have
Speaker 3: to be conscious of the amount of trash that you
Speaker 3: are creating, and single use plastics like plastic water bottles,
Speaker 3: they're like the top of the crime list. So when
Speaker 3: you're somewhere like Rome, it's brilliant because they have the
Speaker 3: Nozoni everywhere and you can just stick your empty bottle
Speaker 3: under that fill up with icy cold aqueduct water and
Speaker 3: it's fantastic. It's not always that duplicatable, you know, if
Speaker 3: you're walking around Venice and you need more water, that's
Speaker 3: a little bit more tricky. But it's just something to
Speaker 3: be really aware of. And I really get quite emphatic
Speaker 3: about walking around eating. So here in America it's very
Speaker 3: much just a way of life. You'll see people walking
Speaker 3: down the street eating a hamber girl or eating or whatever,
Speaker 3: and not thinking about it, whereas over there, if I
Speaker 3: use the example of Venice for example, when you're walking
Speaker 3: and eating, or you're eating outside of an establishment, you
Speaker 3: now have food trash. You have bits of food that
Speaker 3: are falling on the ground. When you are done eating,
Speaker 3: whatever food is left, you're like throwing it into a
Speaker 3: trash can that is hopefully not overflowing. But those food scraps,
Speaker 3: that food mess actually draws rats, and so you're you're
Speaker 3: creating trash that the city has to now pay for
Speaker 3: getting removed, and you're also bringing in rats. And this
Speaker 3: we're in like a port town that has a street
Speaker 3: food culture, and we'll go on a street food walking
Speaker 3: tour like Naples or Palermo or Genoa. My god, I
Speaker 3: love this street food. I just did one last year
Speaker 3: in Catanya. We did a street food walking tour that
Speaker 3: was just nuts. It was so great. So the support
Speaker 3: towns are really big on street food everywhere else. Make
Speaker 3: sure that you're sitting down to eat, like you're going
Speaker 3: into an eater b it's not expensive and sit down
Speaker 3: to eat so you're not creating that access station. Another
Speaker 3: thing too is people will leave all their soap products
Speaker 3: and that's another actually environmentally really difficult equations. So I
Speaker 3: always say to people, travel with travel sized body wash
Speaker 3: and travel size soaps and take it back with you
Speaker 3: whatever you got left, don't leave it there, because again
Speaker 3: they now have to pay to clean up your mess,
Speaker 3: and that's really non sustainable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, one of the things that I just
Speaker 1: makes me a little bit very sad and a little
Speaker 1: bit angry actually on our travel planning community is people
Speaker 1: will actually advise people to buy big bottles initially and
Speaker 1: then just throw it away and just I really don't.
Speaker 3: I'm crazy. And Italians, most of Italy, they work really
Speaker 3: hard on recycling and on trying to take care of
Speaker 3: the environment, and so when you're doing those things, it's
Speaker 3: really making you the ugly tourist, you know. It's just
Speaker 3: a big part of the problem. Or another one that gets
Speaker 3: me is people doing the I call all vacation rentals airbnbs,
Speaker 3: but doing the airbnb thing, they'll say, oh, I left
Speaker 3: food in the fridge and the cleaning lady can have it.
Speaker 3: It's like, oh, come on, you left food in the
Speaker 3: fridge because you're too lazy to take it down to
Speaker 3: the trash, and no, the cleaning lady does not want
Speaker 3: your open bottle of milk, She doesn't want your food scraps.
Speaker 3: What are you talking about? So that one drives me
Speaker 3: crazy too. But just being responsible and aware of the
Speaker 3: amount of trash that you are creating is huge. But
Speaker 3: the single use plastics with the water bottles is a
Speaker 3: bit of a nightmare. And I don't really know the
Speaker 3: answer to that. In most places, because especially like this
Speaker 3: this summer, it was boiling hot. The last few summers
Speaker 3: have been really really hot over there, so you are
Speaker 3: consuming a done of water, and if you're not somewhere
Speaker 3: where you can fill up with quality water for you know, free,
Speaker 3: like the Nonzoni roment, can be a bit of a problem.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1: But I think as well, the Italians don't have a
Speaker 1: strong drinking water cultures, I mean even at restaurants, so
Speaker 1: it's really more bottled water. And I find that, you know,
Speaker 1: they could they could step up a bit too. I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of things we can all do,
Speaker 1: not just as tourists, but as you know, maybe as
Speaker 1: a tourist that we demand that they offer that and
Speaker 1: then they need to change a little bit and that
Speaker 1: will would make a difference too. But I find that
Speaker 1: a bit frustrating about Italy to be honest. You know,
Speaker 1: we here in Australia you can order tap waters, mineral
Speaker 1: water or sparkling and it all comes out of a tap.
Speaker 1: You know, it's a big vat. It's not actually a bottle,
Speaker 1: I mean, which is you know, it's a little step again,
Speaker 1: but it's not the end result.
Speaker 4: I guess, you know, the ultimate will be that we
Speaker 4: didn't use.
Speaker 1: Any packaging at all, but I mean that's probably not realistic.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it gets frustrating.
Speaker 4: What else did you have for us, Karina?
Speaker 3: Oh, let me see what's on my list here choosing
Speaker 3: less touristy locations, And this one is one that when
Speaker 3: I see people talk about it in social media groups,
Speaker 3: I kind of get like, ouch, that's a bit mean.
Speaker 3: But so when you're going for the first time, of
Speaker 3: course you want to hit Venice and Florence and Rome
Speaker 3: and maybe their Maufi coast, and these are places that
Speaker 3: you've heard about all the time, and all of them
Speaker 3: are fantastic, Like Rome's my favorite city in the world.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't miss Rome for anything, But there are so
Speaker 3: many other places as well that you know, for example,
Speaker 3: if you're wanting a beachy vacation, which many people talk
Speaker 3: to me. They want to have that experience. It's when
Speaker 3: they're in Italy. They want to go to a beach club,
Speaker 3: they want to be on the water. Italy's all coast,
Speaker 3: it's magnificent and they want a piece of that experience,
Speaker 3: and they immediately think Chinquitery or a Malfi coast, and
Speaker 3: I'm always like, oh, you know what, let's go a
Speaker 3: little bit in either direction. There's I mean, there's so
Speaker 3: many incredible places to go that aren't those two locations.
Speaker 3: They are great, don't get me wrong, but they get
Speaker 3: so overturisted it becomes impossible. It stops being a fun experience.
Speaker 3: It's not sustainable being there because these little places can't
Speaker 3: withstand this volume of tourism. But for the end user experience,
Speaker 3: it's not always that great, and they tend to get
Speaker 3: quite expensive. But there's so many other places that are
Speaker 3: close by that you can go, like buzzing down to
Speaker 3: the Cilento or there's so many places on the Tuscan
Speaker 3: coast where each is a gorgeous turquoise water, very low
Speaker 3: mass tourism going to them, so that means the price
Speaker 3: comes down drastically. You're getting that more I hate using
Speaker 3: the word authentic, but you're getting that more Italian experience
Speaker 3: that you've been craving, rather than just being surrounded by
Speaker 3: a billion cruise ship people. And I think that everybody wins.
Speaker 3: Of the last few years, I've been to a Bruso
Speaker 3: for a beach vacation, this time going to Lamarke, and
Speaker 3: I was telling you before we started recording, this trip
Speaker 3: to Lamarque was phenomenal. I mean it was just everything
Speaker 3: everything you could possibly dream of for beach time in Italy,
Speaker 3: and it was so affordable and it was so sustainable too,
Speaker 3: because every dollar I spent was hitting the ground there
Speaker 3: and was actually going into the local communities of where
Speaker 3: I where I was. So I feel like everybody won
Speaker 3: by me being there, especially me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just about to say that I was, but
Speaker 1: you know, I've been a couple of years ago.
Speaker 3: I was down in a brutso on the coast. I
Speaker 3: love going to Pullia in Pulia. There's famous beaches, but
Speaker 3: there's also tons you can go to the are not
Speaker 3: overly famous, and they're equally fantastic, and your end user
Speaker 3: experience is extraordinary and you come away from it going,
Speaker 3: oh my gosh, this is my life. Look at what
Speaker 3: I'm doing versus being wall to wall shoulder to shoulder
Speaker 3: with mass tourism.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it's it's a really interesting discussion. I
Speaker 1: know when I talk with Holly in carpri that she
Speaker 1: really struggles with, you know, the whole need to I mean,
Speaker 1: she loves sharing the island that's hot now her home,
Speaker 1: but it's also a.
Speaker 4: Little bit scary.
Speaker 1: I mean, even just a few weeks ago, there was
Speaker 1: a big water pipe burst and they ran out of
Speaker 1: water and they stopped all the ferries going to Carpre
Speaker 1: They did not have any what they were allowed twenty
Speaker 1: liters of water per family. It's not a lot of
Speaker 1: water you can I mean, that's drinking water, that's not
Speaker 1: to wash yourself. And that was for a few days.
Speaker 1: So I think, yeah, just being aware from some different
Speaker 1: options can make a huge difference.
Speaker 3: It can often seem like, well, they're telling me to
Speaker 3: go far away in a country that I don't know.
Speaker 3: But the thing is that wherever these big famous places
Speaker 3: are right next door to them is somewhere equally fabulous
Speaker 3: that doesn't have that tourist load. You know, the Chiquiteria
Speaker 3: is another great example, and we've talked about Lagoria a
Speaker 3: lot just up the way. Like two dollars on the train,
Speaker 3: you have a whole new world that is equally beautiful
Speaker 3: and equally you know, stunning in atmospheric as the five
Speaker 3: villagers are, but there's hardly anybody there, and so you're
Speaker 3: not overloading the place. Your dollars are actually making a
Speaker 3: big difference. And again everybody wins, and your end user
Speaker 3: experience is incredible.
Speaker 1: And it's a not so secret objective of this podcast
Speaker 1: to help people find the untold parts of Italy that
Speaker 1: they want to go and find.
Speaker 4: And so that's why a lot of the times.
Speaker 1: I like to talk about, you know, the places in
Speaker 1: the Rome and Venice and Florence, thinking people ideas what
Speaker 1: to do, they're just like you do in your books, Karina,
Speaker 1: but also like to shine a light on these places
Speaker 1: and you know, somehow bring to light these different wonderful
Speaker 1: experiences that you can have that are just on your
Speaker 1: doorstep and just very very close by and worthy effort.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think too that, I mean, we both
Speaker 3: do the small tour model, small group tour model, but
Speaker 3: I think too people realizing that there are these other
Speaker 3: options out there, and obviously the whole world can't come
Speaker 3: on you and my tours because we're we're I think
Speaker 3: that many people. It is supply and demand, So the
Speaker 3: big tour companies are all about making that money right,
Speaker 3: big time, and they're very good at following supply and demand.
Speaker 3: So if the demand is there for more small group experiences,
Speaker 3: they will provide them. So I think for people listening,
Speaker 3: you know, maybe my tour is why I'm only doing
Speaker 3: a handful of tour so I can't retake that many people.
Speaker 3: But just looking for small group opportunities of things that
Speaker 3: are of interest to you, that's the answer right there.
Speaker 3: It's so it's totally sustainable. And then you find that
Speaker 3: all the guides that you're working with are local guides
Speaker 3: and they've worked hard to get their guide licenses, and
Speaker 3: those dollars that you are paying them are actually going
Speaker 3: right down into their local community. It's paying their rent,
Speaker 3: and it's paying their food and their electricity bills and everything.
Speaker 3: So you're doing this incredibly sustainable thing. You know, looking
Speaker 3: around the small group travel options or you know a
Speaker 3: lot more people now I think are quite happy to
Speaker 3: plan out their own thing or to do their own
Speaker 3: thing with a little bit of help with the planning
Speaker 3: and just having that awareness that you can go to
Speaker 3: some different towns, you know, just see some different things.
Speaker 4: Well, Karina, I really appreciate all your insight.
Speaker 1: I know you're really passionate about exploring Italy in just
Speaker 1: a really conscious and aware way, and it's truly always
Speaker 1: inspiring to have you on the show to chat about
Speaker 1: different places, experiences and overall a different philosophy that maybe
Speaker 1: that we're seeing in the general media. And what I
Speaker 1: really appreciate as well is that, you know, from my perspective,
Speaker 1: awareness and action is key, and I really think we
Speaker 1: need to all make keep making small changes and then
Speaker 1: if we all do it will make a bigger change.
Speaker 1: None of us are perfect. I am guilty of buying
Speaker 1: plastic water bottles. I hate myself for it, like you know,
Speaker 1: the shame, the shame.
Speaker 4: When I'm in Italy.
Speaker 1: But unless we're presented with all the options or they're
Speaker 1: easy to find, it's hard to be truly sustainable. So
Speaker 1: I really appreciate you coming on the show today to
Speaker 1: really explain all the different ways that we can make
Speaker 1: a little bit of a difference. And therefore a big difference.
Speaker 1: So how would you like to wrap this up? You know,
Speaker 1: what's the message that you would love to give our listeners.
Speaker 3: I would say that the big one is make sure
Speaker 3: every dollar you're spending is hitting the ground and the
Speaker 3: town that you're in. And then just have that awareness
Speaker 3: because none of us are perfect. None of us are
Speaker 3: going to get it right one hundred percent of the time.
Speaker 3: But if you're getting it right some of the time,
Speaker 3: you've just made You just changed the whole world, just
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: Like that, So, Karina, can you remind our listeners how
Speaker 1: they can connect.
Speaker 4: With you and follow along with.
Speaker 1: Your Italian adventures, including your new home in Italy, so.
Speaker 3: Jillieus No, yes, So the best way is to go
Speaker 3: on my website, which is coarinacook dot com. I have
Speaker 3: a link there to join my newsletter. I have a
Speaker 3: massive newsletter that comes out about once a month, sometimes
Speaker 3: twice a month, and that fills you in on all
Speaker 3: kinds of different stories and I tell you about places
Speaker 3: that I go and places that I've discovered that you
Speaker 3: might want to add to your travel itinerary or soap
Speaker 3: something out for. It also has links to my social
Speaker 3: media accounts, and I will be telling a lot more
Speaker 3: stories about having a home in Tuscany and all the
Speaker 3: fun and fabulous things that happen with it. I'm just
Speaker 3: giddy about it all at the moment.
Speaker 4: So I'm so thrilled for you.
Speaker 1: Must be so wonderful to finally have a place in
Speaker 1: Italy that you can call your own.
Speaker 4: Just absolutely delighted.
Speaker 3: I love it.
Speaker 1: Grad Sid Karina, thank you so much for joining us
Speaker 1: on Untold Italy and let's chat very soon.
Speaker 4: I love chatting with you.
Speaker 3: Likewise, thank you so much and bye everybody.
Speaker 4: Gao dao.
Speaker 1: It's fair to say that the hordes of people we've
Speaker 1: seen swarming monuments and cities aren't what most of us
Speaker 1: imagine when we're planning our dream trips anywhere in the world,
Speaker 1: and least of all Italy. Those scenes remind me that
Speaker 1: we always have choices when we travel, and that we
Speaker 1: can choose what might be the obvious and best advertised choices,
Speaker 1: or that if we dig a little deeper, we might
Speaker 1: uncover something a little more magical. I don't know about you,
Speaker 1: but when I'm traveling, I want to be contributing to
Speaker 1: and learning from the places I visit. And not having
Speaker 1: a negative impact on them. And I've found by making
Speaker 1: us few small changes, not only can we enhance our
Speaker 1: own travel experiences, but we can also have a positive
Speaker 1: impact on the economies and lives of the locals where
Speaker 1: we visit. And I hope you've learned a few tips
Speaker 1: and tricks about that today. I also believe that companies
Speaker 1: offering services in those places will respond in kind. So
Speaker 1: if more people reject the puffy gelato in favor of
Speaker 1: delicious artisanal scoops, more smaller gelateria will be encouraged to
Speaker 1: open at a more macro level. I hope that encourages
Speaker 1: the Italian Tourist Board to switch its budget from the
Speaker 1: obvious attractions and do a much better job of marketing
Speaker 1: lesser owned destinations in Italy and find creative ways to
Speaker 1: encourage visitors to go and explore beyond the obvious. Here
Speaker 1: at Untold Italy will continue to showcase lesser owned destinations
Speaker 1: and regions and give you insight into the ways that
Speaker 1: you can visit the popular sites in a way that's
Speaker 1: considerate and respectful of local customs, but also it gives
Speaker 1: you a wonderful experience too. You'll see that across all
Speaker 1: our platforms, this podcast, our website, social media, on our tours,
Speaker 1: and of course, with our trip planning clients. After all,
Speaker 1: this is the magical, heart stopping, beautiful Italy that we
Speaker 1: love and we want you to have that feeling too.
Speaker 1: If you'd like more information on the tips we shared today,
Speaker 1: a downloadable transcript, and the links to Carina's website and more,
Speaker 1: head on over to the episode show notes at untold
Speaker 1: Italy dot com. Forward slash two three four for episode
Speaker 1: number two hundred and thirty four. Gratimile. Thanks for all
Speaker 1: your ongoing support of Untold Italy. We truly appreciate all
Speaker 1: of you, our listeners joining us from around the world.
Speaker 1: We would love it if you help spread the words
Speaker 1: so we can reach more Italy loving travelers just like you,
Speaker 1: and the best way that you can do that is
Speaker 1: by leaving us a rating or review in your favorite
Speaker 1: podcast app we'd love it to be five star, or
Speaker 1: forwarding this episode onto a friend who also loves slow
Speaker 1: travel in Italy. Next episode, we're visiting one of the
Speaker 1: world's most iconic monuments to get the lowdown on how
Speaker 1: to make the most of your visit. But until then,
Speaker 1: it's chow for now. The Untold Italy podcast is an
Speaker 1: independent production podcast editing, audio production and website development by
Speaker 1: Mark Hatter, Production assistance and content writing by the Are
Speaker 1: they kJ Clark?
Speaker 4: Yes, there are two of us.
Speaker 1: For more information about Untold Italy, please visit Untold Italy
Speaker 1: dot com