WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.080 --> 00:00:02.399 In the last thirty years, the number of visitors to 2 00:00:02.439 --> 00:00:06.000 Italy each year has tripled. That has had a big 3 00:00:06.120 --> 00:00:09.080 impact on our experience when we get there and also 4 00:00:09.080 --> 00:00:11.640 on the locals who live in arguably one of the 5 00:00:11.679 --> 00:00:15.080 most beautiful places on Earth. On this episode of the 6 00:00:15.119 --> 00:00:17.679 Untold Italy podcast, we dive into the ways that we 7 00:00:17.719 --> 00:00:21.239 can travel more mindfully and enjoy the best of everything 8 00:00:21.320 --> 00:00:36.960 Italy has to offer. Despite that increasing travelers. 9 00:00:31.600 --> 00:00:36.159 Tawatuti and Benvenuti Tuan told Italy the travel podcast to 10 00:00:36.200 --> 00:00:39.719 where you go to the towns and villages, mountains and lakes, 11 00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:44.079 hills and coastlines of Ballet Italia. Each week, your host 12 00:00:44.320 --> 00:00:47.079 Katie Clark takes you on a journey in a search 13 00:00:47.119 --> 00:00:52.840 of magical landscapes, history, culture, wine, gelato and of course 14 00:00:53.159 --> 00:00:56.000 a whole lot of pasta. If you're dreaming of Italy 15 00:00:56.079 --> 00:00:59.880 and planning future adventures there, you've come to the right place. 16 00:01:08.959 --> 00:01:12.359 Jel Benvenuti Friends, I'm Katie, the founder of Untold Italy 17 00:01:12.400 --> 00:01:14.920 and our mission here on this podcast and with our 18 00:01:14.959 --> 00:01:18.159 app small group tours and trip planning services is to 19 00:01:18.239 --> 00:01:22.359 help you feel part of Italy, its history, culture, food 20 00:01:22.359 --> 00:01:26.319 and wine, and of course are its wonderful people. Traveling 21 00:01:26.359 --> 00:01:29.519 around Italy has been my life's passion, and I personally 22 00:01:29.640 --> 00:01:32.480 care very much that future generations are able to have 23 00:01:32.519 --> 00:01:36.879 that same opportunity. So we have a mission to travel 24 00:01:36.959 --> 00:01:41.040 mindfully and Untold Italy take it a little slower piano piano, 25 00:01:41.200 --> 00:01:44.239 and help others do the same. Joining me on this 26 00:01:44.319 --> 00:01:47.400 episode to explore the many ways we can savor Italy, 27 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:49.879 have a wonderful time when we are there, and also 28 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:53.120 contribute a little to the communities that make this experience 29 00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:57.799 so special is Glamor Talia guide book author Careta Cook. 30 00:01:58.040 --> 00:02:02.159 So adiamo, let's welcome her on to the show. Beg 31 00:02:02.200 --> 00:02:05.719 to Nata, Carena, welcome back to the Untold Italy Podcast. 32 00:02:06.840 --> 00:02:09.039 Thank you, Katie. It's wonderful to be back. 33 00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:12.240 No, it is always a pleasure to have you join us. 34 00:02:12.280 --> 00:02:15.000 And you're fresh off the plane from Italy. Can you 35 00:02:15.039 --> 00:02:16.719 tell us some of the highlights of this trip. 36 00:02:17.680 --> 00:02:20.360 Yes, well, it's all different now that I have a 37 00:02:20.439 --> 00:02:23.639 home there, so you know, that's pretty exciting for me. 38 00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:26.719 Just being at my home is really really exciting, and 39 00:02:26.759 --> 00:02:29.479 then packing it up to leave, I'm just like, oh gosh, 40 00:02:29.479 --> 00:02:30.759 I can barely breathe. 41 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:31.080 So. 42 00:02:32.599 --> 00:02:34.840 Yeah, it was great. I did all kinds of really 43 00:02:34.840 --> 00:02:38.360 interesting things, went to some new places. I actually, at 44 00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:40.400 the end of my June tours, I always like to 45 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:43.000 go to the beach for a week because beach vacations 46 00:02:43.000 --> 00:02:45.680 are my favorite thing, and this time I went to 47 00:02:45.919 --> 00:02:49.360 the beach in La Marque my first time, and it 48 00:02:49.479 --> 00:02:54.039 was so beyond fantastic. I mean, I always have quite 49 00:02:54.120 --> 00:02:58.120 high expectations, but this was like a thousand times more 50 00:02:58.159 --> 00:03:00.360 than I thought it was going to be. And it 51 00:03:00.439 --> 00:03:03.560 was oh I and I'm still really really excited about it. 52 00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:09.400 It was fantastic and fun and ridiculously affordable. No tour busters, 53 00:03:09.599 --> 00:03:13.639 so there's very low tourism, or very low the international tourism. 54 00:03:13.719 --> 00:03:16.960 I guess you get like a lot of Europeans maybe 55 00:03:17.000 --> 00:03:20.680 going through there. But it just felt really special and 56 00:03:20.919 --> 00:03:26.120 untouched and it was so great, so great. Then now 57 00:03:26.159 --> 00:03:28.800 I'm home and I'm you know, got this new kind 58 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:30.840 of jet lag that I've started getting the last couple 59 00:03:30.879 --> 00:03:33.759 of years where coming back, I wake up at like 60 00:03:33.800 --> 00:03:36.400 three thirty in the morning or whatever, and I'm wide awake. 61 00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:41.240 You're always smiling, and we love all your adventures, and 62 00:03:41.280 --> 00:03:43.039 I'm sure we'll get into a few of those later, 63 00:03:43.159 --> 00:03:46.639 but let's start with a quick recap introduction. I've given 64 00:03:46.680 --> 00:03:49.639 everyone the thirty second summary, but can you remind our 65 00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:52.280 listeners and especially the new ones, about who you are and. 66 00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:52.719 What you do. 67 00:03:53.639 --> 00:03:57.800 Yes, my name's Karina Cook, and I write a best 68 00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:01.759 selling book series called the Glamatalia how to Travel Italy books, 69 00:04:02.360 --> 00:04:07.960 and they approach travels slightly differently, and that they are 70 00:04:08.000 --> 00:04:11.439 all about showing you places that you don't know inside 71 00:04:11.479 --> 00:04:14.039 of the big famous cities. So whether you're in Rome 72 00:04:14.120 --> 00:04:17.519 or in Florence or Venice or wherever you are, there's 73 00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:22.839 so many fantastic things to do that most tourists don't 74 00:04:22.879 --> 00:04:25.000 know about, so you don't need to be in crowds 75 00:04:25.000 --> 00:04:28.439 all the time. You can be off seeing equally spellbinding 76 00:04:29.079 --> 00:04:32.839 things and having all these incredible experiences with not a 77 00:04:32.839 --> 00:04:35.160 whole lot of people around you. So that's kind of 78 00:04:35.160 --> 00:04:38.199 what I do. I also lead small group tours for 79 00:04:38.319 --> 00:04:42.160 women called the Glamytalia Tours, and that's about it. 80 00:04:42.920 --> 00:04:47.120 She's a very busy lady and very inspiring and we 81 00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:49.800 often ask Karina to join us to chat about practical 82 00:04:49.839 --> 00:04:52.720 planning tribes to make the most of your time in Italy. 83 00:04:52.879 --> 00:04:54.079 Or her favorite places. 84 00:04:54.360 --> 00:04:56.680 But today we're going to switch tack a little and 85 00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:59.600 talk about something that we're both passionate about, and that's 86 00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:02.839 how we can travel and truly enjoy ourselves and not 87 00:05:02.920 --> 00:05:05.680 be part of an ever growing problem of over tourism 88 00:05:06.000 --> 00:05:09.600 and all the associated problems that that entails. So some 89 00:05:09.639 --> 00:05:13.920 people call that sustainable travel or responsible travel, and I think, 90 00:05:14.079 --> 00:05:17.480 you know, that's probably a nice label to put on it, 91 00:05:17.560 --> 00:05:19.519 but I wanted to put a touch point in it 92 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:22.000 before we start this chat. Is that over the weekend, 93 00:05:22.160 --> 00:05:24.800 the past weekend that's just gone past, thousands of people 94 00:05:24.920 --> 00:05:28.759 in Spain protested in Barcelona against over tourism. And what 95 00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:31.759 they did was they actually soaked tourists with water pistols 96 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:34.959 and they like drenched them and really they were not 97 00:05:35.000 --> 00:05:37.319 made to feel welcome, and I think, you know, I 98 00:05:37.319 --> 00:05:40.160 don't think that was a great experience for anyone there, 99 00:05:40.399 --> 00:05:44.839 And it really does come back to this problem of 100 00:05:44.920 --> 00:05:49.360 these popular cities in Europe that are becoming more and 101 00:05:49.480 --> 00:05:54.120 more inundated with tourists, and you know, it's impacting the 102 00:05:54.199 --> 00:05:58.680 lifestyle and the lives of the people there. So you 103 00:05:58.680 --> 00:06:01.199 know what the good news is, because you know, that 104 00:06:01.279 --> 00:06:05.600 was a pretty crazy story. I thought that according to 105 00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:09.680 a recent survey by the accommodation sidebooking dot Com, seventy 106 00:06:09.879 --> 00:06:12.000 six percent of travelers said they want. 107 00:06:11.839 --> 00:06:13.879 To travel more sustainably in the future. 108 00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:17.240 But the problem that they were having is that fifty 109 00:06:17.240 --> 00:06:20.720 one percent of travelers believe there aren't enough sustainable travel options. 110 00:06:21.120 --> 00:06:24.079 So hopefully during this chat, we can reveal some of 111 00:06:24.079 --> 00:06:26.240 those options to you, because there are a lot of 112 00:06:26.279 --> 00:06:28.800 simple ways that we can take. And I know Karina 113 00:06:28.800 --> 00:06:33.120 has got some excellent ideas to enhance and not compromise 114 00:06:33.160 --> 00:06:35.319 your travels at all, but actually make them the best 115 00:06:35.319 --> 00:06:38.199 travels you've ever had. So I know you, Karina, have 116 00:06:38.240 --> 00:06:40.360 a lot of thoughts on the Soul'll let you get started. 117 00:06:41.199 --> 00:06:43.920 I will say that, you know, for years, people used 118 00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:46.480 to try and talk to me about sustainable travel, and 119 00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:50.319 I felt like it was those religious door knockers. I'm 120 00:06:50.319 --> 00:06:53.519 trying to say something like, as soon as something would 121 00:06:53.519 --> 00:06:55.720 bring it up, I would like do anything I could 122 00:06:55.720 --> 00:06:58.399 to get out of that room. I didn't want to 123 00:06:58.560 --> 00:07:01.680 have somebody talking at me about stuff. And then I 124 00:07:01.759 --> 00:07:05.560 actually watched a YouTube thing. This is years and years 125 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:08.879 ago by accident, but this guy was a travel specialiste. 126 00:07:08.879 --> 00:07:12.639 Hem was very interesting, and then I realized that sustainable 127 00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:15.519 travel was exactly what I was doing. I just didn't 128 00:07:15.959 --> 00:07:17.600 want to call it that. They need somebody to make 129 00:07:17.639 --> 00:07:20.480 it like a sexy name for it, not sustainable travel, 130 00:07:20.480 --> 00:07:24.800 because it sounds so so off putting. But really what 131 00:07:24.959 --> 00:07:28.600 it is is traveling in a way that you don't 132 00:07:28.680 --> 00:07:31.480 damage the place that you're in. And I think that, 133 00:07:31.720 --> 00:07:35.519 you know, it's actually really easy to do. It's how 134 00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:38.680 I have always traveled without realizing that's what I was doing. 135 00:07:39.240 --> 00:07:43.000 And I think for the end user that being the traveler, 136 00:07:43.720 --> 00:07:47.759 your experience is so much better for it. You know, 137 00:07:47.839 --> 00:07:52.759 it's so well worthwhile doing. And it's very very small, 138 00:07:52.800 --> 00:07:57.240 small small adjustments. I've found with my tour groups over 139 00:07:57.240 --> 00:07:59.079 the years. When I will say to them, oh, you 140 00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:01.079 know what we should make we do this this way 141 00:08:01.360 --> 00:08:03.920 and explain it to them, they straight away get it 142 00:08:03.959 --> 00:08:05.399 and we're like, oh god, no, I don't want to 143 00:08:05.399 --> 00:08:07.279 be a problem. I want to be one of the 144 00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:10.600 good guys. So it's all like really easy stuff. But 145 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:14.120 it kind of starts off with why do we travel? 146 00:08:14.399 --> 00:08:18.360 And we travel internationally so that we can experience something 147 00:08:18.399 --> 00:08:20.680 different than what we have at home. So the first 148 00:08:20.720 --> 00:08:22.759 thing we need to do is value what it is 149 00:08:22.759 --> 00:08:26.680 that we're coming to see. The second thing when it 150 00:08:26.680 --> 00:08:31.240 comes to Italy is I think we really need to 151 00:08:31.399 --> 00:08:35.240 stop and think about when we dream about going to Italy, 152 00:08:35.840 --> 00:08:39.080 what is it that we are dreaming about. Are we 153 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:42.240 dreaming about being squashed inside of crowds with like those 154 00:08:42.279 --> 00:08:45.000 headset things in your ears and trying to remember what 155 00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:47.960 color flag the person's waving today and make sure you're 156 00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:52.320 following them. Or are we actually really dreaming about rolling 157 00:08:52.360 --> 00:08:57.639 hills and Tuscany and vineyards and olive groves and beautiful 158 00:08:57.639 --> 00:09:02.000 old buildings and wandering little streets full of history. And 159 00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:07.399 I think it's about aligning actual travels more with those 160 00:09:07.480 --> 00:09:11.200 dreams that we have, so we see that Italy and 161 00:09:11.240 --> 00:09:15.159 it's really easy to do even inside the big crowded cities, 162 00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:18.600 So we can have that experience inside of Florence and 163 00:09:18.720 --> 00:09:21.000 Rome and Venice no problem at all. 164 00:09:21.799 --> 00:09:26.559 Yeah, And I think really what's happened in recent years 165 00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:32.440 especially is that we're actually told what we want very dramatically, 166 00:09:32.679 --> 00:09:35.600 Like you just have to spend you know, like half 167 00:09:35.639 --> 00:09:39.440 an hour scrolling on Instagram and you're basically rolled into 168 00:09:39.720 --> 00:09:42.720 what your dreams are. But I think we need to 169 00:09:42.759 --> 00:09:45.600 take back some agency around what it is that we 170 00:09:45.679 --> 00:09:49.039 actually enjoy and not be told what it is to 171 00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:53.559 enjoy because things becoming more and more homogenized in this world. 172 00:09:53.679 --> 00:09:56.840 And I think if you do a quick google of anything, 173 00:09:56.840 --> 00:09:58.320 you're going to come up with a list of things 174 00:09:58.360 --> 00:10:00.879 to do in Rome on the first ten websites, and 175 00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:03.960 every every leasty're going to have exactly the same thing. 176 00:10:04.120 --> 00:10:09.120 So you automatically, your brain is just keeps telling you, well, 177 00:10:09.120 --> 00:10:11.039 this is what I should be doing. But I think 178 00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:13.360 we all have agency and we can all take a 179 00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:15.840 big step back and say, what is it that I enjoy? 180 00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:19.000 For me, I love food and history and they're probably 181 00:10:19.039 --> 00:10:22.480 my two main motivations for travel. But some people might 182 00:10:22.559 --> 00:10:26.080 love being in nature or exploring. 183 00:10:27.039 --> 00:10:27.480 I don't know. 184 00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:30.840 I know we had some guests that went to Pied 185 00:10:31.080 --> 00:10:33.480 they loved dark magic and that was their passion. 186 00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:35.559 Oh how cool. 187 00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:36.840 Yeah. 188 00:10:36.919 --> 00:10:39.360 I think it does get difficult for someone who's coming 189 00:10:39.840 --> 00:10:41.799 for the first time and they think, well, what am 190 00:10:41.840 --> 00:10:46.159 I supposed to see? And it's really easy to just 191 00:10:46.200 --> 00:10:48.120 go well, I'm going to go on this tour, this 192 00:10:48.240 --> 00:10:50.759 mess and big bus tour, or I'm going to go 193 00:10:50.840 --> 00:10:53.279 on this cruise and it's going to take me around Italy, 194 00:10:53.360 --> 00:10:55.799 and I have these day trips in and out, and 195 00:10:55.840 --> 00:10:59.159 I think those are the most toxic ways to travel, 196 00:10:59.519 --> 00:11:01.840 you know. There, Their position is, why don't you worry. 197 00:11:01.840 --> 00:11:03.480 We're going to show you what you want to see. 198 00:11:03.519 --> 00:11:05.240 We're going to show you the things you need to see. 199 00:11:05.279 --> 00:11:09.320 And they've got this prefabricated list of places that you're 200 00:11:09.360 --> 00:11:11.919 going to see inside of each city that have exactly 201 00:11:12.039 --> 00:11:15.120 nothing to do with your personal interests. It's just like, 202 00:11:15.519 --> 00:11:18.440 push all these people in and you'll find that all 203 00:11:18.480 --> 00:11:23.679 the big tour companies send everybody into these same handful 204 00:11:23.919 --> 00:11:30.080 of locations within the city, and so the traveler's end 205 00:11:30.159 --> 00:11:34.080 user experience is that they are just surrounded by crowds 206 00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:36.759 and it's hot and it's sweaty, and they're tired, and 207 00:11:37.279 --> 00:11:40.720 the only food places are available nearby where they are 208 00:11:40.919 --> 00:11:44.080 are overpriced tourist joints, and so they come away from 209 00:11:44.159 --> 00:11:46.360 it with a lesser experience. They've paid a lot of 210 00:11:46.399 --> 00:11:49.200 money for their trip and they come away with a 211 00:11:49.279 --> 00:11:52.639 lesser experience, and they've kind of been part of the 212 00:11:52.679 --> 00:11:57.000 problem because that is just not sustainable. So I think 213 00:11:57.039 --> 00:11:59.960 that you know, some of the big things are making 214 00:12:00.039 --> 00:12:03.440 and move more towards small group tourism where kind of 215 00:12:03.480 --> 00:12:06.320 like what you and I do, where it's more specific 216 00:12:06.480 --> 00:12:12.519 to certain people's interests. Also maybe looking a little bit 217 00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:16.919 more broadly at some of these cities and seeing what 218 00:12:17.039 --> 00:12:19.840 else there is to offer. Now, obviously, if you're going 219 00:12:19.879 --> 00:12:21.960 to Rome, it would be madness to not go to 220 00:12:21.960 --> 00:12:25.240 the Coliseum. I still go to the Colisseum virtually every 221 00:12:25.320 --> 00:12:26.919 day that I'm in Rome. I've got walking past it 222 00:12:26.960 --> 00:12:28.440 and go see it and do all this stuff because 223 00:12:28.480 --> 00:12:31.080 I still can't believe that it's there and I get 224 00:12:31.120 --> 00:12:33.919 to look at it. But there's so many other things 225 00:12:33.919 --> 00:12:36.360 to do as well. So it's just a little bit 226 00:12:36.399 --> 00:12:39.120 of it exploring a little bit, seeking out a little 227 00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:41.759 bit more knowledge maybe, I mean, if. 228 00:12:41.639 --> 00:12:44.039 You're really interested in ancient Rome. And we have quite 229 00:12:44.039 --> 00:12:47.360 a few podcast episodes on the secret things to do 230 00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:50.320 in Rome. But I recently went to Palazzo Massimo, which 231 00:12:50.360 --> 00:12:54.679 is a treasure trove of ancient Roman art, which. 232 00:12:54.519 --> 00:12:57.840 Is and where they're like ten other people there, fifteen 233 00:12:57.960 --> 00:12:59.600 other people in the middle of June. 234 00:13:00.120 --> 00:13:03.600 It was crazy, and I loved every second of it. 235 00:13:04.480 --> 00:13:07.360 Like you're sort of thinking, is this real, Like, because 236 00:13:07.639 --> 00:13:12.240 they've actually kept a lot of these treasures in this 237 00:13:12.799 --> 00:13:15.759 museum because they want to keep them safe, right, And 238 00:13:15.799 --> 00:13:18.159 then they've got too many treasures. So you wander over 239 00:13:18.200 --> 00:13:21.120 the road to the Bars of Diocletian, they just got. 240 00:13:20.919 --> 00:13:21.799 Them all hanging out. 241 00:13:21.919 --> 00:13:23.799 I'm just like, ah, we don't really know what to 242 00:13:23.840 --> 00:13:25.039 do with these, so we're just going to put them 243 00:13:25.039 --> 00:13:25.600 in the garden. 244 00:13:25.759 --> 00:13:29.559 And I mean, like, those places absolutely blow my mind. 245 00:13:29.639 --> 00:13:32.600 And anytime I take any of my tour travelers there 246 00:13:32.720 --> 00:13:35.480 or I'll often have people reach out to me on 247 00:13:35.519 --> 00:13:37.600 social media or like it. In my Rome book, I 248 00:13:37.639 --> 00:13:39.879 talk about these places and people will say to me, 249 00:13:39.919 --> 00:13:42.559 oh my god, this was the greatest thing. Like I'm 250 00:13:42.600 --> 00:13:44.600 getting my hat pounding just talking about it. But you 251 00:13:44.679 --> 00:13:48.440 get so excited because you're seeing some of the greatest 252 00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.840 stuff in Rome and you're the only person there. So 253 00:13:52.120 --> 00:13:55.279 there's just so many options of things to do. And 254 00:13:55.639 --> 00:13:58.480 the thing is when you're doing things like that, when 255 00:13:58.519 --> 00:14:01.200 you're going to Palazzo Massimo, in the bars of the Accletian, 256 00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:05.240 or the bars of Caracala or Palazzo al Temple. I mean, 257 00:14:05.279 --> 00:14:07.960 I can make a huge list of places in Rome 258 00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:10.879 to go to where there's really anybody there. There are 259 00:14:11.320 --> 00:14:16.000 astounding places to see, and the act of going there 260 00:14:16.799 --> 00:14:20.720 is what's called sustainable travel. You know, you've you've not 261 00:14:20.879 --> 00:14:23.919 been weighing down these over touristic places. You're going to 262 00:14:24.000 --> 00:14:28.480 somewhere less traveled within this big city. You know, that's 263 00:14:28.600 --> 00:14:31.279 oftentimes just across the street from the most prowded places, 264 00:14:31.639 --> 00:14:34.720 and your dollars are going into your travel, dollars are 265 00:14:34.759 --> 00:14:38.639 going into supporting those places and keeping them running. And 266 00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:43.960 you know it's the tiniest action, but it's so sustainable. 267 00:14:44.159 --> 00:14:49.120 You know, it's the epitome of sustainable travel. And everybody 268 00:14:49.120 --> 00:14:52.559 wins because you're getting this most amazing experience. Like, have 269 00:14:52.639 --> 00:14:55.480 you been to Palazzo Alta, Yes, somewhere. 270 00:14:55.279 --> 00:14:55.960 There as well. 271 00:14:56.679 --> 00:15:00.120 Oh, like, that's another one of my favorites. And so 272 00:15:00.159 --> 00:15:05.519 for your listeners, it's at the top end of Piazza Navonna, 273 00:15:05.679 --> 00:15:08.159 which is perhaps the prettiest piazza in all of Rome, 274 00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:11.960 and it gets very busy. You cross the street and 275 00:15:12.000 --> 00:15:15.200 there you'll see the big sign for Palazzo altant and 276 00:15:15.240 --> 00:15:17.919 so you leave the crowds across the street and there's 277 00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:19.879 I mean half the time that I go there, there's 278 00:15:19.879 --> 00:15:26.480 almost nobody there and just staggering, absolutely brain bending, endless 279 00:15:26.799 --> 00:15:32.279 ancient Roman statues and inside this building that is just 280 00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:36.799 devastatingly beautiful. And so you're getting this full round, rich, 281 00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:42.039 robust Roman experience. You're really getting to see ancient Rome, 282 00:15:42.360 --> 00:15:46.960 just as you can at Barsa, Decletian and Palazo Massimol. 283 00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.559 But I feel like you get time to stop and 284 00:15:50.679 --> 00:15:53.159 look at these statues and things from every different angle 285 00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:56.120 and to just breathe them in and enjoy them and 286 00:15:56.440 --> 00:15:59.240 move through a leisurely placed rather than having to be 287 00:15:59.600 --> 00:16:02.519 hustle through because it's another thousand people coming behind you. 288 00:16:03.080 --> 00:16:03.799 And it really is. 289 00:16:03.879 --> 00:16:07.159 I mean, the Colosseum has got apparently up to thirty 290 00:16:07.159 --> 00:16:10.519 thousand visitors a day and only three thousand, only three 291 00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:14.480 thousand can be in there at one time. It's really busy. 292 00:16:14.759 --> 00:16:17.840 And look, you know, it's one thing you definitely have 293 00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.120 to experience at once in your lifetime. And I think 294 00:16:21.159 --> 00:16:23.000 walking out on that arena and pretending that you're a 295 00:16:23.039 --> 00:16:25.039 galadiator is one of those top. 296 00:16:24.799 --> 00:16:25.840 Moments in life. 297 00:16:26.080 --> 00:16:29.759 But you know, there's so much to do, and the 298 00:16:29.799 --> 00:16:33.840 Colosseum itself is one of the world's most iconic monuments 299 00:16:33.879 --> 00:16:38.879 of course, and unfortunately it's so iconic that it's almost 300 00:16:38.919 --> 00:16:41.879 like the Ministry of Culture in Italy doesn't really know 301 00:16:41.919 --> 00:16:43.919 what to do with it, because I mean, for me, 302 00:16:44.360 --> 00:16:46.159 I get a little bit worried when I go there 303 00:16:46.159 --> 00:16:49.080 because I'm thinking, Wow, this is so precious. This is 304 00:16:49.120 --> 00:16:53.320 such an amazing testament to human ingenuity that it actually 305 00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:56.840 survived for you know, two thousand years, even though it's 306 00:16:56.840 --> 00:17:00.320 been ransacked and trashed and it's been the home for 307 00:17:00.679 --> 00:17:03.039 you know, they've made it into a farm and. 308 00:17:03.039 --> 00:17:04.000 All sorts of things. 309 00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:08.720 But I mean, I mean, are we really respecting and like, 310 00:17:08.759 --> 00:17:10.559 this is not an answer for anyone here. I think 311 00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:12.519 the Italian government really needs to have a look at 312 00:17:12.559 --> 00:17:15.440 some of these amazing cultural treasures that they have and 313 00:17:15.480 --> 00:17:19.319 how they really manage them going forward, because they need 314 00:17:19.359 --> 00:17:22.920 to do a better job, in my opinion, of advertising 315 00:17:22.920 --> 00:17:24.839 what else is available, because I don't think they do 316 00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:26.519 the best job of that, to be honest with you, 317 00:17:26.559 --> 00:17:28.920 and I think they rest on pretty is there, saying 318 00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:32.200 is and really promote the obvious stuff when they could 319 00:17:32.240 --> 00:17:34.440 be doing a better job of letting people know about 320 00:17:34.720 --> 00:17:38.720 the amazing Palazzo Massimo and all the different Roman baths, 321 00:17:38.799 --> 00:17:42.240 and all of those things will return in a moment 322 00:17:42.319 --> 00:17:47.920 with the rest of the episode. If you've been dreaming 323 00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:51.960 of experiencing Italy the way it's meant to be lived, slow, unhurried, 324 00:17:52.000 --> 00:17:54.960 and with locals who open their homes and hearts, Our 325 00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:58.279 Untold Italy tours are now open for twenty twenty six 326 00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.960 and beyond. We hand every detail so you can just 327 00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:04.880 show up and soak in the magic. Spots are limited 328 00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.720 and many field months in advance. Check the link in 329 00:18:07.759 --> 00:18:11.279 the show notes or visit untotally tools dot com for details. 330 00:18:15.880 --> 00:18:18.960 Yeah, I think also the tour companies and the cruise 331 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:21.759 ship companies like they're taking the easy way out. They 332 00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:25.160 just send them on in, like busload after busload after busload, 333 00:18:25.440 --> 00:18:27.079 and they don't care. They've already got your money, so 334 00:18:27.160 --> 00:18:31.079 don't care what your experience is. So if you're standing 335 00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:34.759 there amongst thousands of people, they don't care. You know 336 00:18:35.440 --> 00:18:38.119 better if they were offering people all these different things 337 00:18:38.160 --> 00:18:40.440 and saying to them, hey, you can do this or 338 00:18:40.480 --> 00:18:43.240 you can do these things, and like just explaining to 339 00:18:43.279 --> 00:18:46.079 people some of the different things that are available. I mean, 340 00:18:46.119 --> 00:18:48.440 I was I'll get off the coliseum in one second, 341 00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:52.279 but I was horrified. In June, I was there with 342 00:18:52.759 --> 00:18:54.799 some friends who are working on another project, and we're 343 00:18:54.799 --> 00:18:57.519 walking around the back of the coliseum and I was 344 00:18:57.559 --> 00:19:01.599 watching all these cruise ship groups that was from Norwegian Cruises, 345 00:19:02.160 --> 00:19:04.839 and I was watching them like they were all filing along. 346 00:19:04.960 --> 00:19:06.480 First of all, there was group twenty three, because I 347 00:19:06.519 --> 00:19:08.799 was watching the paddle with twenty three on it, and 348 00:19:09.119 --> 00:19:13.279 I was horrified that all these people were so intently 349 00:19:13.920 --> 00:19:16.680 following number twenty three and making sure that they were 350 00:19:16.720 --> 00:19:19.599 not losing sight of number twenty three, that none of 351 00:19:19.640 --> 00:19:23.039 them looked over to their right and paid one second 352 00:19:23.079 --> 00:19:25.359 attention to this two thousand year old building that is 353 00:19:25.400 --> 00:19:27.480 one of the great wonders of the world. And then 354 00:19:27.480 --> 00:19:28.839 I so I was saying to my friends, I'm like, 355 00:19:28.920 --> 00:19:31.400 look at these idiots on group twenty three. How can 356 00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:34.119 you possibly walk past this and not look at it 357 00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:35.599 like it's the beginning of the day. They haven't been 358 00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:38.119 in there yet or anything. How can you possibly do that? 359 00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:40.000 And then my friend Melissa's like, well, look at group 360 00:19:40.079 --> 00:19:42.880 sixteen and they're going the opposite way. It's same thing, 361 00:19:43.599 --> 00:19:47.799 and they're so intently watching that paddle because if they 362 00:19:47.799 --> 00:19:50.559 get separated from their group. You know, that's going to 363 00:19:50.599 --> 00:19:53.480 be a disaster for them that they're missing the fact 364 00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:56.720 that hey, wait up a moment, look at what you're 365 00:19:56.759 --> 00:20:02.960 going past. And I found that just so sad, I think. 366 00:20:02.839 --> 00:20:04.680 I'll come down to agency as well. 367 00:20:04.720 --> 00:20:06.519 Like you, we have our own we can make our 368 00:20:06.599 --> 00:20:09.599 own decisions about the experiences. 369 00:20:08.960 --> 00:20:09.759 That we want to have. 370 00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:13.799 And you know, I think it's easy to go for 371 00:20:14.720 --> 00:20:17.799 a package in many different senses, you know, to get 372 00:20:17.799 --> 00:20:20.240 that whole package and say yes, that's what I want. 373 00:20:20.400 --> 00:20:22.559 But if you'd have to take a little time, it 374 00:20:22.559 --> 00:20:25.599 maybe is a little bit more confronting. So what are 375 00:20:25.599 --> 00:20:27.119 some of the choices that we can. 376 00:20:27.079 --> 00:20:31.200 Make that brings it around The next point I wanted 377 00:20:31.240 --> 00:20:33.400 to bring up, And if you've heard me here on 378 00:20:33.440 --> 00:20:35.880 the podcast before, you will have heard me say this before, 379 00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:38.440 but I think it is the most crucial thing when 380 00:20:38.480 --> 00:20:41.759 you're planning a overseas trip and when you're planning on 381 00:20:41.799 --> 00:20:45.680 coming to Italy, because obviously you've saved up. Like very 382 00:20:45.720 --> 00:20:47.559 few people just like write a check and be like, 383 00:20:47.559 --> 00:20:49.240 oh yeah, I've got like a few thousand spare and 384 00:20:49.319 --> 00:20:51.079 it's going to jump on this. Most people have done 385 00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.559 some saving up and they've done some sacrificing to get 386 00:20:53.559 --> 00:20:56.359 to come on these trips. But I think the most 387 00:20:56.400 --> 00:20:59.160 important thing is right at the get go, when you 388 00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:02.160 make that decision you want to come to Italy, sit 389 00:21:02.200 --> 00:21:05.200 down and start writing a list of the experiences you 390 00:21:05.319 --> 00:21:08.559 want to have, because I guarantee you you're not going 391 00:21:08.599 --> 00:21:10.680 to write down on your list. I want to be 392 00:21:10.759 --> 00:21:13.200 stuck in a crowd and like desperately trying to follow 393 00:21:13.240 --> 00:21:16.960 paddle number twenty three and not get lost. So let's 394 00:21:16.960 --> 00:21:18.839 look at what those things are. And it might be 395 00:21:18.920 --> 00:21:21.359 that you want to see some historic sites in Rome, 396 00:21:21.559 --> 00:21:26.079 and maybe you want to see some interesting old art, 397 00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:29.680 and maybe you want to go to a winery, and 398 00:21:29.799 --> 00:21:33.559 maybe you want to have the experience of dining alfresco 399 00:21:33.880 --> 00:21:37.920 somewhere beautiful, sitting in some lovely piazza. And you start 400 00:21:37.960 --> 00:21:42.720 making a list of these things. And then once you've 401 00:21:42.759 --> 00:21:46.240