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<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the Pathland, Chile for part two of

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<v Speaker 1>our series on the disappearance of Glenn and Bessie Hyde. Robin,

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<v Speaker 1>do you want to catch everyone up and what we

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<v Speaker 1>talked about in our previous episode.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this is one of the oldest mysteries we covered,

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<v Speaker 2>as it took place nearly a full century ago in

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen twenty eight. Involved a newlywed couple named Glenn and

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<v Speaker 2>Bessie Hide who lived in Twin Falls, Idaho. But because

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<v Speaker 2>Glenn was a very adventurous guy, he decided that for

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<v Speaker 2>their honeymoon, he and Betsy were going to go on

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<v Speaker 2>a whitewater river rafting trip through the Grand Canyon on

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<v Speaker 2>the Colorado River, which would right about two hundred and

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<v Speaker 2>seventy seven miles, and he was hoping to break the

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<v Speaker 2>speed records so that they could become famous. But they

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<v Speaker 2>were making good progress, but then they vanished without a trace,

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<v Speaker 2>and their abandoned boat would be found in one section

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<v Speaker 2>of the river, and even though their supplies and all

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<v Speaker 2>their personal possessions were still inside and the boat looked undisturbed,

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<v Speaker 2>no trace of Glenn or Bessie could be found. There

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<v Speaker 2>was an initial assumption that they had drowned or drive

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<v Speaker 2>of exposure after wandering through the park, but nothing. The

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<v Speaker 2>search effort failed to turn up anything, but over the

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<v Speaker 2>years there would be some weird twists and turns. In

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<v Speaker 2>nineteen seventy one, there was another river rafting trip that

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<v Speaker 2>was going through the Grand Canyon and a woman named

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<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth Cutler told the group that she was Bessie Hyde

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<v Speaker 2>and that she had killed Glenn and decided to walk

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<v Speaker 2>out of the canyon on her own and start a

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<v Speaker 2>new life under a new identity. But this was pretty

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<v Speaker 2>much completely debunked as the facts did not line up.

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<v Speaker 2>There was another woman, a very famous female whitewater rafter

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<v Speaker 2>named Georgie White Clark who died in nineteen ninety two

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<v Speaker 2>at the age of eighty one, and she lived a

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<v Speaker 2>very private, secretive life, and they wound up finding a

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<v Speaker 2>copy of gled and Bessie Hyde's Mary Certificate in her

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<v Speaker 2>possessions following her death, so they looked at the possibility

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<v Speaker 2>that perhaps she was Bessie, but when they looked at

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<v Speaker 2>the backstory of Georgie's life, they realized that this just

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<v Speaker 2>was not possible. In nineteen seventy six, the skeleton remains

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<v Speaker 2>of a man with a bullet hole in his head

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<v Speaker 2>was found inside a boat house belonging to a photographer

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<v Speaker 2>named Emery Colb who lived in the Grand Canon on

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<v Speaker 2>the Colorado River, and because he was one of the

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<v Speaker 2>last people who had seen the hides alive, there was

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<v Speaker 2>speculation that perhaps he killed Glenn and kept his remains

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<v Speaker 2>in the boat house, but they completely debunked this idea

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<v Speaker 2>and realized that the remains likely belonged to a unidentified

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<v Speaker 2>man who had shot himself in the Grand Canyon sometime

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<v Speaker 2>during the nineteen thirties, and because Cold worked for the

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<v Speaker 2>coroner's office at that time, it's been speculated that because

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<v Speaker 2>the victim could not be identified, that Colb took his

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<v Speaker 2>remains home with him and kept them in the boat

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<v Speaker 2>house and forgot about them for several decades before he died. So,

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<v Speaker 2>even though this skeleton is not believed to have any

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<v Speaker 2>connection to the high case, it's still a big mystery

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<v Speaker 2>who exactly this John Doe really is. But nearly one

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<v Speaker 2>hundred years have passed and no trace of Glenn and

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<v Speaker 2>Bessie has ever been found, so this is still an

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<v Speaker 2>unsolved mystery. So I couldn't tell you how many times

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<v Speaker 2>I watched the Unsolved Mystery segment about this story when

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<v Speaker 2>I was a kid, as I once take this particular

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<v Speaker 2>episode off of TV and pretty much wore out the VHS.

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<v Speaker 2>It may not be the first Unsolved Mysteries episode ever produced,

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<v Speaker 2>as there were others made before it, which were hosted

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<v Speaker 2>by Raymond Burr and Carl Malden, but if you decide

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<v Speaker 2>to start watching the series on Amazon Prime or YouTube,

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<v Speaker 2>this is the first episode you're going to get. The

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<v Speaker 2>theme of the episode was four mysterious stories involving a

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<v Speaker 2>husband and a wife, and it's pretty much a gold

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<v Speaker 2>mine of some of the most memorable segments Unsolved Mysteries

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<v Speaker 2>ever produced. In addition to this case, the episode covers

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<v Speaker 2>the murder of Shannon Moore by her husband Dave Davis,

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<v Speaker 2>the unexplained death of Alien Conway, and the disappearance of

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<v Speaker 2>Dottie Kaylor. And of course, while there was hope that

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<v Speaker 2>the exposure on national television might help law enforcement solve

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<v Speaker 2>the other three featured cases on the show, the Glen

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<v Speaker 2>and Bessie Hyde disappearance was nearly sixty years old by

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<v Speaker 2>that point, so the segment was pretty much just there

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<v Speaker 2>for entertainment, but It's a very well done segment and

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<v Speaker 2>does not scamp on the production values for the reenactments,

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<v Speaker 2>as you get to see unedited shots of the actors

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<v Speaker 2>portraying Glenn and Bessie going down the dangerous rapids of

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<v Speaker 2>the Colorado River in a wooden scow, much like the

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<v Speaker 2>real people did back in nineteen twenty eight. I used

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<v Speaker 2>to find it incredibly creepy that this couple would completely

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<v Speaker 2>vanish without a trace, while their supplies and personal belongings

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<v Speaker 2>were found inside this completely empty, undamaged boat, especially.

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<v Speaker 3>When you think about the way that unsolved mysteries dramatizes things,

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<v Speaker 3>it leaves things out. And then, like you said, this

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<v Speaker 3>was the very first episode of the entire series that

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<v Speaker 3>came out. So since we've learned a lot of information

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<v Speaker 3>two about some of these myths being kind of debunked,

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<v Speaker 3>I think it could be as basic as they fell

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<v Speaker 3>off of the scow and they passed away. I think

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<v Speaker 3>that Glenn was incredibly reckless and Bessie was not experienced,

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<v Speaker 3>and even on the easy parts of the rapids, they

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<v Speaker 3>were having struggles where Glenn even was falling off and

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<v Speaker 3>needing to be rescued from the water. So who's to

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<v Speaker 3>say that without life preservers, without any of those other things,

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<v Speaker 3>that it wasn't just simply one of those moments where

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<v Speaker 3>neither of them were able to actually wrests.

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<v Speaker 1>Like a micro version of a ghost ship. And I

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<v Speaker 1>couldn't remember the details of it, so I just looked

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<v Speaker 1>up the Mary Celeste and I don't know if you

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<v Speaker 1>both are familiar with this. It was founded direct in

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<v Speaker 1>the Atlantic Ocean in eighteen seventy two with no crew aboard,

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<v Speaker 1>but in seaworthy condition and with personal belongings and cargo intact,

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<v Speaker 1>and the fate of what happened to the captain and

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<v Speaker 1>the cruise still remains a mystery. So this is an

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<v Speaker 1>interesting parallel to that, where all the belongings on the

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<v Speaker 1>boat are still intact, the boat is still in river

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<v Speaker 1>worthy condition, but yet Glenn and Bessie are nowhere to

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<v Speaker 1>be found.

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<v Speaker 4>That's horrifying. The entire crew is missing.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, yeah, wow, Okay, this is two crazy adventurers going missing,

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<v Speaker 3>But that's an entire crew.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna have to go do a deep dive there.

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<v Speaker 3>But this one too, the way the way it's portrayed,

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<v Speaker 3>there really were to me, there also could have been

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<v Speaker 3>the ability that at least one of them could have

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<v Speaker 3>gotten to a shoreline and tried to hike out. But again,

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<v Speaker 3>they're in the middle of the Grand Canyon, right, Yes.

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<v Speaker 2>And it wouldn't have been very easy to get out

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<v Speaker 2>of there, even if you were an experienced hiker.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah, absolutely, And who knows.

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<v Speaker 3>That's such a vast, unkind of navigatable place that if

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<v Speaker 3>they had climbed out on the banks, especially only one

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<v Speaker 3>of them, I could see also perishing on, you know,

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<v Speaker 3>in the Grand Canyon, trying to find a resource to

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<v Speaker 3>get away, to get out.

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<v Speaker 2>As a side note, the Unsolved Mysteries episode featuring this

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<v Speaker 2>story is also the same infamous episode featuring the interview

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<v Speaker 2>with Juwel Kaylor that we always liked to poke fun of.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you have not seen this episode, track it

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<v Speaker 2>down right now on YouTube because it is a gold mine.

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<v Speaker 1>All that being said, if you do further research into

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<v Speaker 1>this story and check out Brad Dimmick's book Sunk Without Sound,

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<v Speaker 1>it becomes apparent that Unsolved Mysteries greatly exaggerated some of

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<v Speaker 1>the more mysterious aspects of the story, such as the

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<v Speaker 1>discovery of the skeleton in Emery Colb's boathouse and Elizabeth

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<v Speaker 1>Cutler's so called confession that she was Bessie Hyde. Since

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<v Speaker 1>the segment put a lot of emphasis on Cutler's confession

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<v Speaker 1>that she stabbed her husband to death in self defense

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<v Speaker 1>after he beat her up, it's easy to come away

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<v Speaker 1>thinking that Glenn Hyde was some sort of abusive brute

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<v Speaker 1>who dragged his naive, innocent newlywed wife on a dangerous

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<v Speaker 1>trip against her will, with no regard for her personal safety.

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<v Speaker 1>And for whatever reason, this segment gets Bessie's age wrong,

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<v Speaker 1>claiming that she was only eighteen years old when she

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<v Speaker 1>was actually twenty two. They made no mention of the

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<v Speaker 1>fact that Bessie already had one previous marriage and divorce

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<v Speaker 1>under her belt, which was not very common for a

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<v Speaker 1>young woman during the nineteen twenties. So she was definitely

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<v Speaker 1>a lot more worldly and independent than the segment portrayed her,

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<v Speaker 1>and pretty much ahead of her time. In fact, Bessie's

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<v Speaker 1>brother was once quoted as saying she should have been

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<v Speaker 1>born a man, and he meant it as a compliment.

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, of course he did. I mean, think about the

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<v Speaker 3>power that men had compared to women. We couldn't vote,

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<v Speaker 3>we education wasn't something prioritized for women. Having your own

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<v Speaker 3>financial access was not something that women had when you know,

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<v Speaker 3>when they were married, and we talk about there's a

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<v Speaker 3>chance she might have been pregnant and sent away, she

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<v Speaker 3>was in an abusive first marriage. She's trying to navigate

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<v Speaker 3>the world and creating very innovative ways to get a

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<v Speaker 3>divorce from.

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<v Speaker 4>Her first husband.

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<v Speaker 3>So she is absolutely filled with it. This kind of confidence.

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<v Speaker 3>It was not given to women at the time, right,

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<v Speaker 3>You weren't allowed to have those kinds of feet underneath

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<v Speaker 3>of you to say I will do what I want

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<v Speaker 3>with who I want.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm going to say no to a man. I'm going

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<v Speaker 4>to divorce a man against his will or knowledge.

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<v Speaker 3>Even if let's say she went ahead and had an

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<v Speaker 3>abortion and or put a baby of her adoption, that

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<v Speaker 3>too would have been something incredibly controversial back then. So

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<v Speaker 3>she just seemed like a very innovative, ahead of her

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<v Speaker 3>time kind of woman. And when she runs into Glenn,

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<v Speaker 3>it's like this magical relationship where she sees this other

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<v Speaker 3>very bold, very clever, very kind of risky kind of man.

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<v Speaker 3>And I think she liked that because she was so

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<v Speaker 3>bold herself. And could that have been their demise as

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<v Speaker 3>being a little too confident. Bessie did show a little

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<v Speaker 3>sign of fear throughout this trip and concern, but it

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<v Speaker 3>almost seems like Glenn could either comfort her or kind

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<v Speaker 3>of override that and continue on with this legacy trip

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<v Speaker 3>that he was hoping to have.

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<v Speaker 2>When Brad didn't research sunk without a sound, everything he

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<v Speaker 2>turned up about Glenn Hyde suggested he was a gentleman,

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<v Speaker 2>and there was no indication that he ever abused his wife.

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<v Speaker 2>At the outset, at least, it seemed like Bessie was

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<v Speaker 2>just as enthusiastic about this lengthy rafting trip as Glenn was.

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<v Speaker 2>You can definitely question Glenn's judgment about a lot of things,

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<v Speaker 2>particularly as refusal to bring along life jackets, but it

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<v Speaker 2>sounds like he and Bessie genuinely loved each other. Now.

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<v Speaker 2>To fully understand Glenn's reasoning for this trip, you have

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<v Speaker 2>to remember that adventurers were very popular during this time period.

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<v Speaker 2>It was only one year beforehand when Charles Lindbergh took

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<v Speaker 2>the world's first solo NonStop transatlantic flight from New York

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<v Speaker 2>to Paris in his plane the Spirit of Saint Louis,

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<v Speaker 2>which made him one of the most famous celebrities in

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<v Speaker 2>the world. So you can see why Glenn would be

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<v Speaker 2>tempted to achieve his own fame and fortune by setting

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<v Speaker 2>a new speed wrecord for river rafting through the Grand Canyon.

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<v Speaker 2>And I'm sure he loved the idea of putting his

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<v Speaker 2>wife in the history books by making her the very

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<v Speaker 2>first woman to accomplish this feat. And they almost pulled

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<v Speaker 2>it off because when you look at the hides and

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<v Speaker 2>known movements and see the location where the empty boat

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<v Speaker 2>was found, they were only about forty to fifty miles

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<v Speaker 2>from their destination and on pace to break the speed

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<v Speaker 2>record before they vanished. You can understand why there has

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<v Speaker 2>always been a major fascination with this story, even though

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<v Speaker 2>in the grand scheme of things, it's not hard to

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<v Speaker 2>come up with a logical theory about what likely happened

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<v Speaker 2>to Glenn and Bessie.

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<v Speaker 4>And I do very much think she was excited about this.

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<v Speaker 3>I think she could have been hesitant, or she could

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<v Speaker 3>have concerns because anyone when they see this scal they're like, Okay,

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<v Speaker 3>we're going to go on this incredibly complex route. Like

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<v Speaker 3>we said, maybe ignorance was bliss because how much exposure

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<v Speaker 3>would she have to information, but I think this kind

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<v Speaker 3>of high. They had just gotten married, this is their honeymoon.

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<v Speaker 3>He Glynn chose a woman who was bold and adventurous,

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<v Speaker 3>and she chose a man who was bold and adventurous.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think this was very much an exciting thing

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<v Speaker 3>for them. I don't think he forced her. I don't

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<v Speaker 3>think any of that. I think as a trip went on,

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<v Speaker 3>it's possible Bessie started to go, WHOA, I might have

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<v Speaker 3>bitten off more than I could chew here, But again

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<v Speaker 3>I think Glynn could have probably reassured her and said, hey,

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<v Speaker 3>we've got this. Like you know, just keep in mind,

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<v Speaker 3>we're ahead of schedule, we're going to make records, we're

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<v Speaker 3>going to be in the history books. And to Bessie

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<v Speaker 3>that's exciting.

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<v Speaker 1>It is exciting, and I can understand why a married couple,

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<v Speaker 1>no matter how much you love each other, there's going

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<v Speaker 1>to be periods while you're stuck on this small vessel

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<v Speaker 1>that you are going to irritate each other to no end.

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<v Speaker 1>My husband had these friends that years ago they did

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<v Speaker 1>basically an around the world sailing thing, and it was

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<v Speaker 1>this big idea with the three kids, the two of

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<v Speaker 1>them are going to go and at first everything was great.

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<v Speaker 1>But by the time they were getting off that boat,

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<v Speaker 1>she was leaving him, they were getting divorced, and she'd

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<v Speaker 1>already found another man, and everything was everything fell apart.

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<v Speaker 1>It was like a catastrophe. So I think these small,

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<v Speaker 1>all enclosed spaces can have different results for people. But

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<v Speaker 1>with just Glenn and Bessie, this tiny little boat and

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<v Speaker 1>these arduous conditions, I can't imagine the stress that they

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<v Speaker 1>were both under for sure.

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<v Speaker 3>It's almost like when you think about instances where like

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<v Speaker 3>even a healthy couple, I would murder my husband if

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<v Speaker 3>we lived in a tiny home, right, I couldn't do it.

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<v Speaker 3>I'd probably have to take out some of my kids too, right, Like,

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<v Speaker 3>it's just not it's not for me. I need my space,

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<v Speaker 3>I need my privacy, and they do too. And then

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<v Speaker 3>you think about couples like you have Gabby Petito and

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<v Speaker 3>her killer.

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<v Speaker 4>Yes.

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<v Speaker 3>Yes, And so even had they been super healthy on

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<v Speaker 3>their ride, I think there would have been problems because

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<v Speaker 3>they're young. They're new now. Remember Glenn and Bessie are newlywed.

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<v Speaker 3>So to what extent, I think as you age in

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<v Speaker 3>your marriage, you learn the goods, the bads, and the

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00:13:54.039 --> 00:13:57.000
<v Speaker 3>ugly about your spouse, especially if you haven't been dating

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<v Speaker 3>that long and there's still love and respect and admiring,

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<v Speaker 3>but you can definitely the longer you're together or start

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<v Speaker 3>to realize, oh man, I don't like that, or this

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<v Speaker 3>is scares me, or I'm worried. So I think Bessie

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<v Speaker 3>and Glynn were good to each other. I think they

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<v Speaker 3>went on this adventure. But when I do think they

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<v Speaker 3>could fuss hurt each other, I doubt it, But I

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<v Speaker 3>also think I'm sure there were moments where people saw

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<v Speaker 3>them kind of at each other like I want to

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<v Speaker 3>go faster, I need to slow down, this seems too

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<v Speaker 3>risky for me.

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<v Speaker 4>Could we try this?

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<v Speaker 3>And kind of debating back and forth because they're still

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<v Speaker 3>navigating their relationship much less the treacherous track they're on

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<v Speaker 3>as well, And.

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<v Speaker 1>You also have to take into account the fact that, like,

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<v Speaker 1>what type of creature comforts can you have? Like maybe

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<v Speaker 1>Bessie is bold and she's a risk taker and she's

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<v Speaker 1>out there, but when you take away things like getting

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00:14:45.240 --> 00:14:49.159
<v Speaker 1>to sleep in clean sheets, being able to bathe properly

288
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<v Speaker 1>when you're both probably smelly and you're in this small

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00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:57.759
<v Speaker 1>space together and you just aren't comfortable a lot of

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<v Speaker 1>the time. I think that that could breed resentment, and

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<v Speaker 1>it could breed irritation, And I think you're right Ash,

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<v Speaker 1>like they did love each other, Otherwise, I don't think

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<v Speaker 1>she would have agreed to have gone on this adventure.

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<v Speaker 1>But I do think that things can happen to you,

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<v Speaker 1>even the healthiest of couples, when you're put into a

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<v Speaker 1>pressure cooker like this.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's pretty much what Emory Cole felt when they

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<v Speaker 2>stopped at his place, because it looked to him like

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<v Speaker 2>Bessie was becoming less enthusiastic about the trip and wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>sure she wanted to continue. And you can imagine after

301
00:15:29.159 --> 00:15:31.720
<v Speaker 2>visiting him at his house, she's probably thinking to herself, Ooh,

302
00:15:31.759 --> 00:15:33.639
<v Speaker 2>I could sleep in a bed tonight if we stay

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00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:35.039
<v Speaker 2>here for the little river and not have to be

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00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:37.480
<v Speaker 2>out in the wilderness. But I don't think that fits

305
00:15:37.519 --> 00:15:40.480
<v Speaker 2>the narrative that like Glenn pretty much forced her against

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00:15:40.519 --> 00:15:42.639
<v Speaker 2>her will to go back on the remainder of the trip.

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00:15:42.679 --> 00:15:45.320
<v Speaker 2>I think she went along voluntarily, and I don't think

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<v Speaker 2>things escalated into violence where Bessie flat out murdered Glenn

309
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<v Speaker 2>and then just took off.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, another compelling aspect to this mystery was the

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<v Speaker 1>discovery of the skeleton in Emery Colb's boathouse nearly fifty

312
00:15:58.080 --> 00:16:00.799
<v Speaker 1>years after the hides went missing, which helped bring their

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00:16:00.840 --> 00:16:04.879
<v Speaker 1>disappearance back into the spotlight. If this situation happened today,

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00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.200
<v Speaker 1>it would be very easy to answer the question of

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00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:09.759
<v Speaker 1>whether or not the victim was Glenn Hyde, as all

316
00:16:09.799 --> 00:16:13.279
<v Speaker 1>it would require is getting DNA from Glenn's surviving relatives

317
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:16.440
<v Speaker 1>and comparing it with DNA from the remains. So it's

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00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:19.320
<v Speaker 1>quite amusing to watch the Unsolved Mystery segment and see

319
00:16:19.320 --> 00:16:22.120
<v Speaker 1>how they handled this situation. In the pre DNA world

320
00:16:22.159 --> 00:16:25.919
<v Speaker 1>of nineteen eighty seven, doctor Walter Burkby uses a rather

321
00:16:26.039 --> 00:16:29.559
<v Speaker 1>primitive method of superimposing a photograph of Glenn's over the

322
00:16:29.639 --> 00:16:33.039
<v Speaker 1>victim's skull in order to conclude that they did not match.

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00:16:33.799 --> 00:16:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Since a bullet was found in the skull. I can

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00:16:35.759 --> 00:16:38.320
<v Speaker 1>see why people would instantly jump on the theory that

325
00:16:38.440 --> 00:16:43.000
<v Speaker 1>Emery Cold murdered Glenn, particularly since Bessy had allegedly expressed

326
00:16:43.039 --> 00:16:46.159
<v Speaker 1>concern to him about completing the rafting trip, as this

327
00:16:46.200 --> 00:16:48.799
<v Speaker 1>would have been a perfect opportunity for Cold to quote

328
00:16:48.919 --> 00:16:52.559
<v Speaker 1>rescue her. But doctor Burkeby pretty much shoots that theory

329
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:55.879
<v Speaker 1>down in his interview and makes a valid point. If

330
00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:58.600
<v Speaker 1>Cold committed murder, why would he have kept the damn

331
00:16:58.639 --> 00:17:02.720
<v Speaker 1>body around? L Ay Unsolved Mysteries segment frame things, you

332
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.960
<v Speaker 1>get the impression that the hides vanished immediately after visiting

333
00:17:05.960 --> 00:17:09.319
<v Speaker 1>Colb's place. They make no mention of their subsequent meetup

334
00:17:09.400 --> 00:17:13.200
<v Speaker 1>with Adolph Gilbert Seutro or the abundance of evidence such

335
00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:16.559
<v Speaker 1>as Bessie's journal entries which showed that the couple were

336
00:17:16.599 --> 00:17:19.519
<v Speaker 1>still alive for at least the next two weeks after

337
00:17:19.559 --> 00:17:22.519
<v Speaker 1>they parted ways with Cole. I guess this was done

338
00:17:22.559 --> 00:17:25.359
<v Speaker 1>in order to build the suspense over the idea that

339
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:29.240
<v Speaker 1>Cold murdered Glenn, But once you know all the full facts,

340
00:17:29.400 --> 00:17:33.240
<v Speaker 1>you realize just how absurd this idea really is. In

341
00:17:33.359 --> 00:17:35.880
<v Speaker 1>order for Cold to have been the killer, he would

342
00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:38.519
<v Speaker 1>need to have traveled around one hundred and forty miles

343
00:17:38.559 --> 00:17:41.440
<v Speaker 1>to track Glen down, and instead of disposing of him

344
00:17:41.480 --> 00:17:44.799
<v Speaker 1>in the water or somewhere in the wilderness, he inexplicably

345
00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:47.559
<v Speaker 1>decides to lug Glenn's body all the way back to

346
00:17:47.599 --> 00:17:49.599
<v Speaker 1>his property and store it in the boathouse.

347
00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:52.680
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, it just seems like an odd decision, but I

348
00:17:52.720 --> 00:17:55.319
<v Speaker 3>do understand when he sits there and he says, hey, listen,

349
00:17:55.359 --> 00:17:56.319
<v Speaker 3>this is a John Doe.

350
00:17:56.359 --> 00:17:58.839
<v Speaker 4>No one's going to claim him, so I'm going to

351
00:17:58.880 --> 00:17:59.400
<v Speaker 4>take him home.

352
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:02.920
<v Speaker 3>It seems kind of interesting that in his mind it's

353
00:18:02.960 --> 00:18:05.640
<v Speaker 3>possible he thought it was a more respectable, kind of

354
00:18:05.680 --> 00:18:07.839
<v Speaker 3>interesting thing for him to do and kind of find

355
00:18:07.880 --> 00:18:11.839
<v Speaker 3>some kind of scientific or career value to this skeleton.

356
00:18:11.920 --> 00:18:15.200
<v Speaker 3>But it's definitely a bizarre choice. I do not, in

357
00:18:15.359 --> 00:18:19.440
<v Speaker 3>a moment, think that Colb actually went and killed Glenn

358
00:18:19.559 --> 00:18:22.960
<v Speaker 3>to rescue Bessie. I mean, he wouldn't have stuck around,

359
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:25.599
<v Speaker 3>and if he was that passionate, wouldn't Bessie and him

360
00:18:25.599 --> 00:18:28.319
<v Speaker 3>have ended up together or something. So I think that's

361
00:18:28.400 --> 00:18:29.119
<v Speaker 3>quite a stretch.

362
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<v Speaker 2>Even after it was conclusively determined that the skeleton did

363
00:18:33.160 --> 00:18:35.559
<v Speaker 2>not belong to Glenn Hyde, there was still a big

364
00:18:35.599 --> 00:18:37.920
<v Speaker 2>mystery for a while about who this man really was

365
00:18:38.039 --> 00:18:41.559
<v Speaker 2>and why colp had his remains. It's actually pretty remarkable

366
00:18:41.599 --> 00:18:43.640
<v Speaker 2>that they were able to at least partially solve this

367
00:18:43.759 --> 00:18:46.920
<v Speaker 2>mystery seventy five years after the fact, when the uncovered

368
00:18:46.920 --> 00:18:50.000
<v Speaker 2>the photograph of the skeleton remains of a suicide victim

369
00:18:50.240 --> 00:18:53.200
<v Speaker 2>found a Grand Canyon National Park in nineteen thirty three

370
00:18:53.559 --> 00:18:56.759
<v Speaker 2>and matched it to the remains from Colb's boathouse. Once

371
00:18:56.799 --> 00:18:59.440
<v Speaker 2>it became apparent that Coolb served on the county Coroner's

372
00:18:59.480 --> 00:19:02.119
<v Speaker 2>journey at that time, this became less of a case

373
00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:05.720
<v Speaker 2>of quote deranged murderer keeps victims remains on his property

374
00:19:05.880 --> 00:19:09.880
<v Speaker 2>than quote while meeting citizen keeps an unidentified decedance remains

375
00:19:09.920 --> 00:19:12.559
<v Speaker 2>on his property and forgets about them for four decades.

376
00:19:13.240 --> 00:19:15.720
<v Speaker 2>It's very likely that Cold decided to take the John

377
00:19:15.759 --> 00:19:18.599
<v Speaker 2>Doe's remains home with them, which might seem weird, but

378
00:19:18.759 --> 00:19:22.720
<v Speaker 2>I can understand his reasoning. Since the victim couldnt be identified,

379
00:19:22.799 --> 00:19:24.880
<v Speaker 2>he likely would have been buried in a pauper's grave

380
00:19:24.960 --> 00:19:27.880
<v Speaker 2>somewhere and been difficult to find, so I think Cold

381
00:19:27.920 --> 00:19:30.119
<v Speaker 2>wanted to hold onto the remains on the off chance

382
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:32.799
<v Speaker 2>that the victim's loved ones might come around looking for

383
00:19:32.880 --> 00:19:36.160
<v Speaker 2>him someday. Sadly that never happened and we may never

384
00:19:36.200 --> 00:19:38.880
<v Speaker 2>find out the true identity of this John Doe. But

385
00:19:38.960 --> 00:19:41.480
<v Speaker 2>the evidence clearly showed that there was no foul play

386
00:19:41.559 --> 00:19:44.519
<v Speaker 2>involved in his death, and due to Emery Colb's connection

387
00:19:44.599 --> 00:19:47.880
<v Speaker 2>to the Hydes, disappearance, the situation pretty much blew up

388
00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:51.720
<v Speaker 2>into a major misunderstanding. As a side note, I originally

389
00:19:51.799 --> 00:19:54.319
<v Speaker 2>covered this story on episode number one twenty one of

390
00:19:54.359 --> 00:19:57.000
<v Speaker 2>the Trail Went Cold six years ago, and I soon

391
00:19:57.039 --> 00:19:59.240
<v Speaker 2>received an email from one of my listeners who had

392
00:19:59.240 --> 00:20:03.039
<v Speaker 2>heard the episode and realized that the unidentified Cold Skeleton

393
00:20:03.200 --> 00:20:06.200
<v Speaker 2>was not listed on the Dough Network. So this listener

394
00:20:06.240 --> 00:20:08.960
<v Speaker 2>took the initiative to submit all the victims information to

395
00:20:09.039 --> 00:20:11.880
<v Speaker 2>the website, and by October the nineteenth of that year

396
00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:15.400
<v Speaker 2>that the seeded finally had his own profile page. And

397
00:20:15.519 --> 00:20:17.880
<v Speaker 2>given the remarkable things that have been done with DNA

398
00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:21.359
<v Speaker 2>and genetic genealogy these past several years, perhaps the Cold

399
00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:23.680
<v Speaker 2>Skeleton will finally get his name back someday.

400
00:20:24.519 --> 00:20:28.400
<v Speaker 3>Robin, that's incredibly cool that a listener was sitting there

401
00:20:28.480 --> 00:20:31.839
<v Speaker 3>hearing your podcast took the initiative to go look on

402
00:20:32.079 --> 00:20:34.279
<v Speaker 3>the Dough network and said, wait a minute, this is

403
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:38.319
<v Speaker 3>not listed. And so the individual got their own profile page,

404
00:20:38.319 --> 00:20:40.839
<v Speaker 3>And like you said, who knows there is a potential

405
00:20:40.880 --> 00:20:44.519
<v Speaker 3>that through some even maybe other cases, there could be

406
00:20:44.559 --> 00:20:47.599
<v Speaker 3>a link to this individual's identity. It was a long

407
00:20:47.680 --> 00:20:50.519
<v Speaker 3>time ago, but crazier things have happened in the world

408
00:20:50.519 --> 00:20:52.680
<v Speaker 3>a criminal justice, So very very interesting.

409
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:55.559
<v Speaker 2>Good job, Robin, Yes, thank you. I was pretty flattered

410
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:57.720
<v Speaker 2>by that. And this listener was a very humble person

411
00:20:57.720 --> 00:21:00.359
<v Speaker 2>who didn't want any credit for it, and they probably

412
00:21:00.359 --> 00:21:02.359
<v Speaker 2>did not want me to mention their name on this episode,

413
00:21:02.400 --> 00:21:03.960
<v Speaker 2>so I won't do it. But it was so cool

414
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:06.559
<v Speaker 2>that they just realized that this person who died back

415
00:21:06.599 --> 00:21:09.119
<v Speaker 2>in the nineteen thirties was not on the Dough Network,

416
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:11.440
<v Speaker 2>so they took the initiative to submit him. So put

417
00:21:11.440 --> 00:21:13.759
<v Speaker 2>it this way, if Henry Cole had not kept this

418
00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:16.119
<v Speaker 2>man's remains in his boat house for four decades, he

419
00:21:16.160 --> 00:21:18.359
<v Speaker 2>would not be listed on the Dough Network today. So

420
00:21:18.680 --> 00:21:19.519
<v Speaker 2>silver linings.

421
00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:24.079
<v Speaker 1>Of course, The Unsold Mystery segment also put a heavy

422
00:21:24.119 --> 00:21:27.920
<v Speaker 1>emphasis on the possibility that Bessie Hyde could have murdered

423
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:31.160
<v Speaker 1>her husband heights out of the canyon and traveled somewhere

424
00:21:31.160 --> 00:21:34.079
<v Speaker 1>to start a new life under a new identity. This

425
00:21:34.240 --> 00:21:37.200
<v Speaker 1>idea came about because of the story shared by Elizabeth

426
00:21:37.240 --> 00:21:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Cutler during a commercial wrapting trip in nineteen seventy one,

427
00:21:40.920 --> 00:21:43.680
<v Speaker 1>where she told everyone else sitting around the campfire that

428
00:21:43.720 --> 00:21:46.680
<v Speaker 1>she was Bessie Hyde and revealed the full truth about

429
00:21:46.680 --> 00:21:49.640
<v Speaker 1>what happened. The way the segment frames it is that

430
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:52.400
<v Speaker 1>Cutler was dead serious when she told the story and

431
00:21:52.440 --> 00:21:55.920
<v Speaker 1>became incredibly defensive when people tried to question her about it,

432
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:58.960
<v Speaker 1>later denying that she ever told the story or even

433
00:21:59.000 --> 00:22:02.480
<v Speaker 1>knew who Glenn or best Hide was well. When Brad

434
00:22:02.519 --> 00:22:05.759
<v Speaker 1>Dimmick did further research into this angle in Sunk without

435
00:22:05.799 --> 00:22:09.079
<v Speaker 1>a Sound, he concluded that the details of Cutler's alleged

436
00:22:09.119 --> 00:22:12.960
<v Speaker 1>confession seemed to have been greatly exaggerated by the sound

437
00:22:12.960 --> 00:22:14.920
<v Speaker 1>of things. Since she had worked for many years in

438
00:22:14.960 --> 00:22:18.039
<v Speaker 1>the field of psychology, Cutler had a tendency to say

439
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:22.359
<v Speaker 1>outrageous things just to see people's reactions. Since this rafting

440
00:22:22.400 --> 00:22:24.680
<v Speaker 1>trip was camped near the spot where the Hide' vote

441
00:22:24.759 --> 00:22:27.240
<v Speaker 1>was found and the guide decided to share the story

442
00:22:27.240 --> 00:22:30.319
<v Speaker 1>about the disappearance, Cutler probably thought this would be a

443
00:22:30.319 --> 00:22:33.680
<v Speaker 1>fun opportunity to troll people and claim she was Bessie Hyde.

444
00:22:34.079 --> 00:22:36.000
<v Speaker 1>One of the members of this group was interviewed on

445
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:39.119
<v Speaker 1>Unsolved Mysteries and he claimed the Cutler was a very

446
00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:42.279
<v Speaker 1>serious and quiet person throughout the trip, which is why

447
00:22:42.319 --> 00:22:46.240
<v Speaker 1>her story about being Bessie came across as believable. However,

448
00:22:46.319 --> 00:22:48.480
<v Speaker 1>when some of the other group members were interviewed for

449
00:22:48.559 --> 00:22:51.599
<v Speaker 1>Sunk without a Sound, they described Cutler as a witty,

450
00:22:51.720 --> 00:22:55.279
<v Speaker 1>cheerful character who loved to tease everyone, so they just

451
00:22:55.359 --> 00:22:57.359
<v Speaker 1>felt that she was joking when she told them that

452
00:22:57.400 --> 00:23:00.119
<v Speaker 1>she was Bessie. I think it's likely that when the

453
00:23:00.200 --> 00:23:02.640
<v Speaker 1>legend of her story grew and eventually got blown out

454
00:23:02.680 --> 00:23:05.920
<v Speaker 1>of proportion, Cutler tried to deny ever telling it because

455
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:09.440
<v Speaker 1>technically she did confess to committing murder, which joking or

456
00:23:09.480 --> 00:23:12.319
<v Speaker 1>not could have landed her in some hot water. But

457
00:23:12.400 --> 00:23:16.039
<v Speaker 1>whatever her motivations were, there is concrete evidence that Elizabeth

458
00:23:16.079 --> 00:23:19.519
<v Speaker 1>Keutler was born in Pomeroy, Ohio and was living under

459
00:23:19.559 --> 00:23:22.440
<v Speaker 1>that identity in nineteen twenty eight when Bessie went missing.

460
00:23:22.960 --> 00:23:24.839
<v Speaker 1>So there's no way that they could possibly be the

461
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:25.480
<v Speaker 1>same person.

462
00:23:27.000 --> 00:23:27.839
<v Speaker 4>Yeah, exactly.

463
00:23:27.880 --> 00:23:29.839
<v Speaker 3>I mean, they are able to prove that it's not her,

464
00:23:29.960 --> 00:23:33.039
<v Speaker 3>But it does make you think, a psychologist or not,

465
00:23:34.000 --> 00:23:36.880
<v Speaker 3>what is the motive for claiming you are a killer?

466
00:23:37.400 --> 00:23:40.839
<v Speaker 3>It would be wildly incredible if she made this whole

467
00:23:40.839 --> 00:23:43.680
<v Speaker 3>story that she's Bessie and she says, you know, Glenn

468
00:23:43.759 --> 00:23:45.920
<v Speaker 3>drown this is you know, we were on this wild

469
00:23:46.039 --> 00:23:48.720
<v Speaker 3>trip we were going to make history, and she really

470
00:23:48.799 --> 00:23:52.720
<v Speaker 3>became kind of this infamous legend as Bessie. I could

471
00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:56.200
<v Speaker 3>get that that's for attention, But when you start to say, hey,

472
00:23:56.279 --> 00:23:58.519
<v Speaker 3>I actually killed my husband, I have no qualms telling

473
00:23:58.559 --> 00:24:02.079
<v Speaker 3>you that, and I'm Bessie, it seems like one she

474
00:24:02.119 --> 00:24:04.599
<v Speaker 3>would get in trouble and I assume she didn't, and

475
00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:08.920
<v Speaker 3>two like it boggles my mind that someone would think

476
00:24:08.920 --> 00:24:10.799
<v Speaker 3>that was a smart thing to do. We see false

477
00:24:10.839 --> 00:24:14.240
<v Speaker 3>confessions all the time, but this doesn't seem like someone

478
00:24:14.279 --> 00:24:18.119
<v Speaker 3>who would be desperate for attention like that. Because she

479
00:24:18.759 --> 00:24:21.880
<v Speaker 3>is a professor, I mean she had to work very different,

480
00:24:22.279 --> 00:24:26.319
<v Speaker 3>very hard as someone born in the what twenties or no, no,

481
00:24:26.440 --> 00:24:29.920
<v Speaker 3>nineteen oh eight, right, yes, yes, Okay, so she's born

482
00:24:29.920 --> 00:24:31.559
<v Speaker 3>in nineteen oh eight. This is a woman in the

483
00:24:31.559 --> 00:24:34.480
<v Speaker 3>field of psychology that used to be male dominated. She'd

484
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.079
<v Speaker 3>becoming a professor also a job that started as a

485
00:24:37.079 --> 00:24:41.640
<v Speaker 3>male dominant thing, and she's moving and making waves just

486
00:24:41.680 --> 00:24:46.240
<v Speaker 3>like Bessie did. Why would you kind of regress and say, oh,

487
00:24:46.240 --> 00:24:49.000
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to try to get attention by being Bessie

488
00:24:49.039 --> 00:24:50.480
<v Speaker 3>and saying I killed someone.

489
00:24:51.160 --> 00:24:52.279
<v Speaker 1>Were they drinking? Robin?

490
00:24:53.359 --> 00:24:55.440
<v Speaker 2>It's never been specified, but I wouldn't be the least

491
00:24:55.480 --> 00:24:58.160
<v Speaker 2>bit surprised because that would probably shed a lot of

492
00:24:58.240 --> 00:25:00.519
<v Speaker 2>light on this because they don't get the impression Cutler

493
00:25:00.599 --> 00:25:03.680
<v Speaker 2>knew much about the story beforehand and maybe was learning

494
00:25:03.720 --> 00:25:05.720
<v Speaker 2>about it for the first time when the guy told

495
00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:07.880
<v Speaker 2>it around the fire, and if they were drinking or

496
00:25:07.920 --> 00:25:11.079
<v Speaker 2>possibly even smoking pot, she might have just at the

497
00:25:11.119 --> 00:25:12.759
<v Speaker 2>time thought it was an amusing thing to do, to

498
00:25:12.799 --> 00:25:15.519
<v Speaker 2>spontaneously claim that she was Bessie and that she killed

499
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:16.039
<v Speaker 2>her husband.

500
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:19.160
<v Speaker 1>So I don't think it's that wild in that context.

501
00:25:19.200 --> 00:25:21.920
<v Speaker 1>If we've all known somebody that says things just for

502
00:25:22.119 --> 00:25:24.759
<v Speaker 1>pure shock value, and if they've had a little bit

503
00:25:24.799 --> 00:25:27.799
<v Speaker 1>of alcohol, I could see a situation where somebody would

504
00:25:27.839 --> 00:25:31.240
<v Speaker 1>say that completely joking. But if somebody else takes it

505
00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:34.200
<v Speaker 1>the wrong way, or if they retell that story, it

506
00:25:34.240 --> 00:25:37.119
<v Speaker 1>becomes a game of telephone. Whereas she could have very

507
00:25:37.119 --> 00:25:40.960
<v Speaker 1>obviously been teasing or joking about it and been like, oh, yeah, haha,

508
00:25:41.000 --> 00:25:42.759
<v Speaker 1>and I killed my husband and this is how I

509
00:25:42.759 --> 00:25:45.400
<v Speaker 1>did it. And then you get somebody who says, oh, no,

510
00:25:45.559 --> 00:25:48.400
<v Speaker 1>she was a very serious person. That's why we took

511
00:25:48.440 --> 00:25:52.759
<v Speaker 1>it very serious. So I think it's just context matters.

512
00:25:53.079 --> 00:25:57.079
<v Speaker 1>And the way that somebody relays the story it as

513
00:25:57.119 --> 00:25:59.160
<v Speaker 1>we can see with a game of telephone, and like

514
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:04.480
<v Speaker 1>eyewitness idifications, any ear witness identification, any type of recalling

515
00:26:04.599 --> 00:26:08.960
<v Speaker 1>of events, we don't have one hundred percent accuracy. So

516
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:11.599
<v Speaker 1>I think that there is a scenario where she could

517
00:26:11.599 --> 00:26:14.960
<v Speaker 1>have been joking and that after she just backpedals like WHOA,

518
00:26:15.079 --> 00:26:17.480
<v Speaker 1>Now investigators are coming to ask me about this, I'm

519
00:26:17.480 --> 00:26:18.319
<v Speaker 1>just going to deny it.

520
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:21.759
<v Speaker 3>Especially you have to pay attention to to who's saying it,

521
00:26:21.799 --> 00:26:23.480
<v Speaker 3>because you're right, I didn't even think about it from

522
00:26:23.480 --> 00:26:26.799
<v Speaker 3>that perspective. But what if someone's frustrated with her, insecure

523
00:26:26.839 --> 00:26:30.000
<v Speaker 3>about her those kinds of things. Could they then say like, oh,

524
00:26:30.200 --> 00:26:32.400
<v Speaker 3>this is how she meant it and actually try to

525
00:26:32.440 --> 00:26:37.119
<v Speaker 3>slander her character when literally ingest she's teasing, which you know,

526
00:26:37.200 --> 00:26:39.759
<v Speaker 3>I probably wouldn't encourage people to tease about murdering somebody.

527
00:26:39.799 --> 00:26:42.799
<v Speaker 3>But you know, if she really was let's say, drinking

528
00:26:42.920 --> 00:26:46.000
<v Speaker 3>or being silly or taking someone's comment and twisting it

529
00:26:46.759 --> 00:26:48.960
<v Speaker 3>out of jest, and someone else is like, you know what,

530
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.440
<v Speaker 3>I'm really going to try to bring her down, then

531
00:26:51.480 --> 00:26:54.240
<v Speaker 3>they could start that's you know, spreading the rumor there too.

532
00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:57.640
<v Speaker 2>And then there was a theory that George white Clark

533
00:26:57.720 --> 00:27:00.359
<v Speaker 2>might have been Bessie Hyde, an idea which spread when

534
00:27:00.359 --> 00:27:02.799
<v Speaker 2>a copy of the Hyde's marriage certificate was found in

535
00:27:02.799 --> 00:27:06.200
<v Speaker 2>her possessions after she died, along with a birth certificate

536
00:27:06.319 --> 00:27:09.839
<v Speaker 2>that showed that Georgie's original birth name was Bessie. It

537
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:11.839
<v Speaker 2>is odd that Georgie would have a copy of that

538
00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:14.319
<v Speaker 2>marriage certificate, but when you consider that her life were

539
00:27:14.319 --> 00:27:17.519
<v Speaker 2>evolved around river rafting through the Grand Canyon, you'd have

540
00:27:17.599 --> 00:27:19.480
<v Speaker 2>to think that she was familiar with the story of

541
00:27:19.519 --> 00:27:22.640
<v Speaker 2>the Hide's disappearance, and she probably decided to acquire their

542
00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:26.880
<v Speaker 2>marriage certificate as a souvenir, much like the Elizabeth Cutler situation.

543
00:27:27.119 --> 00:27:29.960
<v Speaker 2>The problem with believing that Georgie white Clark and Bessie

544
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.640
<v Speaker 2>Hyde are the same person is that there's an actual

545
00:27:32.759 --> 00:27:35.960
<v Speaker 2>historical paper trail for Georgie prior to nineteen twenty eight

546
00:27:36.319 --> 00:27:38.839
<v Speaker 2>disproving the notion that she had assumed a new identity.

547
00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:41.599
<v Speaker 2>And when you consider the fact that Georgie gave birth

548
00:27:41.640 --> 00:27:44.319
<v Speaker 2>to a daughter in March of nineteen twenty nine, there's

549
00:27:44.319 --> 00:27:46.880
<v Speaker 2>no way Bessie Hide would have been whitewater rafting through

550
00:27:46.880 --> 00:27:50.720
<v Speaker 2>the Grand Canyon without anyone noticing she was five months pregnant.

551
00:27:51.079 --> 00:27:53.400
<v Speaker 3>No, I don't think so, especially because remember they said

552
00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:56.720
<v Speaker 3>she was tiny, she was ninety pounds. I mean, I

553
00:27:56.759 --> 00:27:59.160
<v Speaker 3>feel like you would quite notice that five months at

554
00:27:59.240 --> 00:28:01.839
<v Speaker 3>least a poot where people would make assumptions of saying,

555
00:28:02.079 --> 00:28:03.279
<v Speaker 3>do you guys think she's pregnant?

556
00:28:03.440 --> 00:28:03.640
<v Speaker 2>Right?

557
00:28:04.079 --> 00:28:07.440
<v Speaker 3>I don't think even Glenn would be that arrogant to say,

558
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:09.440
<v Speaker 3>I love this woman. You know what I'm going to

559
00:28:09.480 --> 00:28:12.039
<v Speaker 3>do if she's pregnant with my child or someone else's child.

560
00:28:12.079 --> 00:28:13.960
<v Speaker 4>Even if you loved.

561
00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:17.359
<v Speaker 3>Her, you probably wouldn't put your pregnant wife on the raft.

562
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:20.519
<v Speaker 3>So even poor Glenn, right, I don't think his story

563
00:28:20.599 --> 00:28:22.799
<v Speaker 3>needed to be my pregnant wife made it as a

564
00:28:22.839 --> 00:28:24.920
<v Speaker 3>hero on this trip. I think he would have been

565
00:28:25.039 --> 00:28:27.480
<v Speaker 3>probably more cautious at that point because Bessie becomes a

566
00:28:27.519 --> 00:28:30.640
<v Speaker 3>more fragile woman he wants to protect instead of this

567
00:28:30.680 --> 00:28:33.559
<v Speaker 3>person who's going to be his partner in a legacy.

568
00:28:35.279 --> 00:28:38.400
<v Speaker 1>So while the idea of Elizabeth Cutler or Georgie white

569
00:28:38.440 --> 00:28:42.200
<v Speaker 1>Clark being Bessie Hyde has been conclusively disproven, I guess

570
00:28:42.240 --> 00:28:45.440
<v Speaker 1>it's still tempting to explore the possibility that Betsy really

571
00:28:45.519 --> 00:28:47.680
<v Speaker 1>did hike out of the canyon of her own accord

572
00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:51.279
<v Speaker 1>and started a new life somewhere. During their trip, Glenn

573
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.960
<v Speaker 1>and Bessie were photographed multiple times and were usually shown smiling,

574
00:28:55.480 --> 00:28:57.319
<v Speaker 1>but a number of people have taken note of the

575
00:28:57.359 --> 00:28:59.720
<v Speaker 1>fact that the final photo of the couple, taken by

576
00:28:59.720 --> 00:29:02.880
<v Speaker 1>Ali about Gilbert Sutro, the last known person to have

577
00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:06.440
<v Speaker 1>seen them alive, see some much different picture. So in

578
00:29:06.480 --> 00:29:09.319
<v Speaker 1>this picture, Glenn and Bessie looked pretty sullen, almost as

579
00:29:09.359 --> 00:29:11.839
<v Speaker 1>if the riggers of their journey had completely sucked the

580
00:29:11.920 --> 00:29:15.640
<v Speaker 1>life out of them. Since Bessie had expressed noticeable concern

581
00:29:15.720 --> 00:29:17.960
<v Speaker 1>about embarking on the rest of the trip during her

582
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:20.960
<v Speaker 1>visit with Emery Cole, perhaps there is some truth to

583
00:29:20.960 --> 00:29:22.920
<v Speaker 1>the idea that she wanted to bring an end to

584
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:25.720
<v Speaker 1>this and the only way to escape from Glenn was

585
00:29:25.759 --> 00:29:28.920
<v Speaker 1>to kill him and leave the area on foot. Well.

586
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:31.000
<v Speaker 1>The problem with this theory is that all of the

587
00:29:31.039 --> 00:29:34.960
<v Speaker 1>couple's supplies, including their food, winter clothing, and hiking boots,

588
00:29:35.240 --> 00:29:38.680
<v Speaker 1>were left behind in their abandoned scale. Hiking out of

589
00:29:38.720 --> 00:29:41.480
<v Speaker 1>the Grand Canyon in late November or early December is

590
00:29:41.599 --> 00:29:44.400
<v Speaker 1>no picnic. So I think that if Bessie took off

591
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:46.759
<v Speaker 1>on her own, she would have at least taken some

592
00:29:46.839 --> 00:29:49.880
<v Speaker 1>of the supplies along with her, because otherwise there's no

593
00:29:50.039 --> 00:29:52.480
<v Speaker 1>way that she would have gotten out of there alive. No,

594
00:29:52.680 --> 00:29:55.640
<v Speaker 1>it just seems likely that when the couple disappeared, they

595
00:29:55.680 --> 00:29:59.119
<v Speaker 1>disappeared together. I know that over the years, Bessie's brother

596
00:29:59.400 --> 00:30:01.599
<v Speaker 1>often liked to point of finger at her ex husband,

597
00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Earl Helmet, since he was known for having a violent

598
00:30:04.960 --> 00:30:08.079
<v Speaker 1>temper and had refused to grant Bessie a divorce. Perhaps

599
00:30:08.079 --> 00:30:10.559
<v Speaker 1>he tracked down the couple and murdered them in revenge.

600
00:30:11.000 --> 00:30:14.240
<v Speaker 1>Earle wound up getting remarried in nineteen thirty, and whenever

601
00:30:14.279 --> 00:30:17.599
<v Speaker 1>he was asked about Bessie, he refused to talk about her. However,

602
00:30:17.640 --> 00:30:20.359
<v Speaker 1>there is no evidence at all that Earle was involved

603
00:30:20.359 --> 00:30:23.519
<v Speaker 1>in Glen and Bessie's disappearance, or that he even traveled

604
00:30:23.519 --> 00:30:26.759
<v Speaker 1>to the Grand Canyon National Park at all. Really, what

605
00:30:26.839 --> 00:30:29.160
<v Speaker 1>are the odds that Earl, who lived in an entirely

606
00:30:29.200 --> 00:30:31.599
<v Speaker 1>different state, would have been able to track down the

607
00:30:31.640 --> 00:30:35.319
<v Speaker 1>couple to a remote wilderness area along the Colorado River.

608
00:30:35.880 --> 00:30:38.559
<v Speaker 1>To put this into perspective, even though the Hydes boat

609
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:40.920
<v Speaker 1>was spotted on the river from the airplane during the

610
00:30:40.960 --> 00:30:45.000
<v Speaker 1>search efforts. It was six days before anyone physically made

611
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:48.039
<v Speaker 1>it to that location and found the boat. That should

612
00:30:48.039 --> 00:30:51.359
<v Speaker 1>give you an idea of how inaccessible this jagged terrain was.

613
00:30:51.960 --> 00:30:54.039
<v Speaker 1>So I'd say the odds of Glen and Bessie running

614
00:30:54.079 --> 00:30:57.400
<v Speaker 1>into anyone there who murdered them are pretty much nonexistent.

615
00:30:58.240 --> 00:31:01.160
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, that did not happen. It's not as if they

616
00:31:01.240 --> 00:31:06.079
<v Speaker 3>are social media vlogging their trip or something right where. Oh, today,

617
00:31:06.119 --> 00:31:08.519
<v Speaker 3>we're at this point. Tomorrow, we're hoping to get to

618
00:31:08.559 --> 00:31:11.119
<v Speaker 3>this point and if someone can hop on a plane

619
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:13.720
<v Speaker 3>or you know, quickly get to them, or even like

620
00:31:13.759 --> 00:31:16.079
<v Speaker 3>you said, scale down the terrain to find them.

621
00:31:16.480 --> 00:31:19.720
<v Speaker 4>They're on this wild trip through.

622
00:31:19.599 --> 00:31:25.839
<v Speaker 3>The Grand Canyon, which is just a crazy, incredible physical existence.

623
00:31:26.319 --> 00:31:29.079
<v Speaker 3>And so the fact that some ex husband who couldn't

624
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:31.400
<v Speaker 3>even find her when she was filing for divorce behind

625
00:31:31.440 --> 00:31:33.720
<v Speaker 3>his back, is going to be able to locate her

626
00:31:33.799 --> 00:31:38.559
<v Speaker 3>in the exact spot alone on this trip and access

627
00:31:38.599 --> 00:31:41.400
<v Speaker 3>her physically is just that just did not happen.

628
00:31:43.759 --> 00:31:46.480
<v Speaker 2>The most logical explanation is that the hides drowned in

629
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:50.200
<v Speaker 2>the river and their bodies were simply never recovered. I guess.

630
00:31:50.200 --> 00:31:52.160
<v Speaker 2>One of the things that has given their disappearance is

631
00:31:52.160 --> 00:31:54.359
<v Speaker 2>an extra or a mystery, is the fact that their

632
00:31:54.359 --> 00:31:57.519
<v Speaker 2>empty boat was found upright and completely intact, with no

633
00:31:57.680 --> 00:32:00.680
<v Speaker 2>signs of any damage, so on the surface, it doesn't

634
00:32:00.720 --> 00:32:03.119
<v Speaker 2>look like they could have gotten into any accidents which

635
00:32:03.160 --> 00:32:06.559
<v Speaker 2>caused them to drown. After all, all of their supplies

636
00:32:06.599 --> 00:32:09.400
<v Speaker 2>and possessions were still inside the scow, which would not

637
00:32:09.440 --> 00:32:12.240
<v Speaker 2>have been the case if they tipped over. But let's

638
00:32:12.240 --> 00:32:14.960
<v Speaker 2>not forget that earlier in the journey, the rough rapids

639
00:32:14.960 --> 00:32:17.279
<v Speaker 2>had caused Bessie to fall out of the boat before

640
00:32:17.279 --> 00:32:19.960
<v Speaker 2>Glenn was able to rescue her, and Glenn also apparently

641
00:32:20.000 --> 00:32:22.720
<v Speaker 2>fell into the water on two separate occasions as well,

642
00:32:23.559 --> 00:32:26.079
<v Speaker 2>so it's reasonable to assume that this could have happened again,

643
00:32:26.240 --> 00:32:28.799
<v Speaker 2>only this time they were not lucky enough to survive.

644
00:32:29.319 --> 00:32:32.279
<v Speaker 2>There's also been this romanticized theory that Bessie fell into

645
00:32:32.359 --> 00:32:35.519
<v Speaker 2>the water and let heroically dived into save her, but

646
00:32:35.559 --> 00:32:39.480
<v Speaker 2>the two lovers wound up drowning together. According to Bessie's journal,

647
00:32:39.559 --> 00:32:42.240
<v Speaker 2>the couple had made it as far as Diamond Creek rapid,

648
00:32:42.519 --> 00:32:45.440
<v Speaker 2>which was located at river mile two twenty five, and

649
00:32:45.519 --> 00:32:47.559
<v Speaker 2>they were about to enter one of the most dangerous

650
00:32:47.599 --> 00:32:50.920
<v Speaker 2>sections of the river, in particular the two thirty two

651
00:32:51.000 --> 00:32:54.720
<v Speaker 2>mile rapid, which has been nicknamed Killer Fang Falls. This

652
00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:57.400
<v Speaker 2>is a spot where a pair of large, jagged bedrocks

653
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:00.799
<v Speaker 2>aka the Fangs, protrude from under water at the end

654
00:33:00.839 --> 00:33:03.559
<v Speaker 2>of the rapids and they can just sneak up on rafters,

655
00:33:03.799 --> 00:33:07.079
<v Speaker 2>as there are numerous documented cases of boats being capsized

656
00:33:07.200 --> 00:33:11.119
<v Speaker 2>or seriously damaged after crashing into them. Considering that Killer

657
00:33:11.160 --> 00:33:13.799
<v Speaker 2>Fang Falls is only five miles away from the spot

658
00:33:13.880 --> 00:33:17.119
<v Speaker 2>where the Hide's empty scow was ultimately found, it seems

659
00:33:17.160 --> 00:33:19.160
<v Speaker 2>like this is one of the most logical spots where

660
00:33:19.160 --> 00:33:21.799
<v Speaker 2>they could have fallen into the water. Even though Glen

661
00:33:21.799 --> 00:33:24.480
<v Speaker 2>and Bessie were both considered to be excellent swimmers, this

662
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:27.079
<v Speaker 2>was a very rough section of the river, and let's

663
00:33:27.079 --> 00:33:30.119
<v Speaker 2>also not forget that Glenn stubbornly refused to carry life

664
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:32.759
<v Speaker 2>jackets in the boat. If he and Bessie are wearing

665
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:36.200
<v Speaker 2>life jackets at that time, then this is a survivable accident,

666
00:33:36.519 --> 00:33:38.480
<v Speaker 2>but without them they may not have made it out

667
00:33:38.480 --> 00:33:41.559
<v Speaker 2>of the river alive. This also would have taken place

668
00:33:41.559 --> 00:33:43.839
<v Speaker 2>at the start of December, so even if the couple

669
00:33:43.880 --> 00:33:46.640
<v Speaker 2>made it to shore, the cold winter temperatures could have

670
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:49.640
<v Speaker 2>caused them to succumb to hypothermia or exposure.

671
00:33:50.519 --> 00:33:53.039
<v Speaker 3>It's also interesting when you think about you know, people saying, oh, well,

672
00:33:53.039 --> 00:33:55.599
<v Speaker 3>they were strong swimmers. Like you just said, if you

673
00:33:55.640 --> 00:33:58.720
<v Speaker 3>don't have a flotational device and you hit a current

674
00:33:58.799 --> 00:34:02.319
<v Speaker 3>in a rapid, remember there's different levels of rapids and

675
00:34:02.440 --> 00:34:06.240
<v Speaker 3>when there's actually places where they they are known kind

676
00:34:06.279 --> 00:34:09.480
<v Speaker 3>of fatal risk, like you assume the risk in a

677
00:34:09.719 --> 00:34:13.280
<v Speaker 3>good whitewater rafting boat. You think about this scal that

678
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:17.039
<v Speaker 3>is basically this handmade floating log. I don't know that

679
00:34:17.119 --> 00:34:19.800
<v Speaker 3>you're going down the river end. I could easily see

680
00:34:19.800 --> 00:34:22.239
<v Speaker 3>them getting bucked out of that, standing up at the

681
00:34:22.239 --> 00:34:25.039
<v Speaker 3>wrong spot and falling over. But if you're a great

682
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:27.199
<v Speaker 3>swimmer and you get caught up in a current, if

683
00:34:27.199 --> 00:34:29.480
<v Speaker 3>you get ripped under and get caught on a log

684
00:34:29.559 --> 00:34:32.199
<v Speaker 3>or a branch and the current holds you underneath the water,

685
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:34.639
<v Speaker 3>if you hit your head on a rock, I mean

686
00:34:34.679 --> 00:34:38.679
<v Speaker 3>there's a billion things that at that point you can't

687
00:34:38.679 --> 00:34:41.239
<v Speaker 3>get back to the surface. Like you said, if we

688
00:34:41.280 --> 00:34:43.599
<v Speaker 3>have a life veest on, it's possible to get back

689
00:34:43.639 --> 00:34:46.400
<v Speaker 3>to the surface. But even with that you see people's

690
00:34:46.440 --> 00:34:49.679
<v Speaker 3>life fest get caught on logs and actually be held

691
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:53.280
<v Speaker 3>underneath the water. So a million things can go wrong.

692
00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:56.239
<v Speaker 3>It is so risky, and especially when it's just the

693
00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:58.719
<v Speaker 3>two of you, if one person has to go in

694
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:01.320
<v Speaker 3>after the other, it's like all bets are off. There's

695
00:35:01.320 --> 00:35:03.480
<v Speaker 3>no one watching for y'all. There's no one else who

696
00:35:03.480 --> 00:35:07.199
<v Speaker 3>can rescue you. So incredibly scary to think about, but

697
00:35:07.480 --> 00:35:10.599
<v Speaker 3>that is by far the most probable thing. I could

698
00:35:10.639 --> 00:35:13.840
<v Speaker 3>see Glenn falling in and Bessie trying to save him,

699
00:35:13.840 --> 00:35:15.960
<v Speaker 3>and I could also see Bessie falling in and Glenn

700
00:35:15.960 --> 00:35:18.800
<v Speaker 3>trying to save her and both losing their lives.

701
00:35:20.159 --> 00:35:22.400
<v Speaker 2>And considering that Bessie was only five feet tall and

702
00:35:22.440 --> 00:35:24.760
<v Speaker 2>weighed only ninety pounds, it would have been very easy

703
00:35:24.760 --> 00:35:27.199
<v Speaker 2>for her body to disappear and never be found if

704
00:35:27.199 --> 00:35:28.199
<v Speaker 2>she wound up in the water.

705
00:35:29.559 --> 00:35:33.119
<v Speaker 1>So we previously mentioned that while writing Sunk without a Sound,

706
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:36.920
<v Speaker 1>Brad Dimmick went all out when doing his research, going

707
00:35:36.960 --> 00:35:39.440
<v Speaker 1>so far as to build an exact replica of the

708
00:35:39.519 --> 00:35:42.880
<v Speaker 1>Hides wooden scal in order to recreate their journey along

709
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:47.400
<v Speaker 1>the Colorado River as closely as possible. After personally navigating

710
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:50.920
<v Speaker 1>the two hundred and thirty two mile rapid. Dimmick's conclusion

711
00:35:51.000 --> 00:35:52.920
<v Speaker 1>was that Glenn or Bessie likely fell out of the

712
00:35:52.920 --> 00:35:55.880
<v Speaker 1>boat and drowned there well. The empty scow continued to

713
00:35:55.920 --> 00:35:58.119
<v Speaker 1>float down to where it was found at river mile

714
00:35:58.199 --> 00:36:01.079
<v Speaker 1>two thirty seven. It seems odd that the scow could

715
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:04.400
<v Speaker 1>have potentially collided with the fangs without sustaining any damage,

716
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:07.400
<v Speaker 1>but in the book, Dimmick recounts incidents from his trip

717
00:36:07.440 --> 00:36:10.519
<v Speaker 1>down the river whereas scow got involved in violent collisions

718
00:36:10.800 --> 00:36:14.079
<v Speaker 1>which failed to leave noticeable damage. Now, I know Glenn

719
00:36:14.079 --> 00:36:17.199
<v Speaker 1>and Bessie's bodies were never found, but the Grand Canyon

720
00:36:17.360 --> 00:36:20.159
<v Speaker 1>is a large place, the search effort didn't launch until

721
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:22.559
<v Speaker 1>a week or so after the couple went missing, and

722
00:36:22.599 --> 00:36:25.519
<v Speaker 1>there's no way to check every single into the Colorado River.

723
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:28.559
<v Speaker 1>But there are two little details in this story which

724
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.280
<v Speaker 1>could potentially shed some light on what might have happened

725
00:36:31.280 --> 00:36:34.280
<v Speaker 1>to the couple. You may recall that when Emery and

726
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.960
<v Speaker 1>Ellsworth Colb found the scow, its bowline appeared to be

727
00:36:38.039 --> 00:36:40.800
<v Speaker 1>fastened in a crevice in one of the rocks and

728
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:44.199
<v Speaker 1>caught on something underwater. Since the brothers were unable to

729
00:36:44.239 --> 00:36:47.199
<v Speaker 1>dislodge it, they decided to cut the bowtline. While the

730
00:36:47.239 --> 00:36:51.000
<v Speaker 1>Colbs received some criticism for this decision and later expressed

731
00:36:51.000 --> 00:36:53.679
<v Speaker 1>regret about it, because some people believe that the other

732
00:36:53.800 --> 00:36:56.039
<v Speaker 1>end of the bowline may have been attached to a

733
00:36:56.079 --> 00:36:59.039
<v Speaker 1>body that was stuck in some rocks under water, which

734
00:36:59.079 --> 00:37:00.719
<v Speaker 1>is why the boat had cut into a halt at

735
00:37:00.760 --> 00:37:04.119
<v Speaker 1>that particular spot. So by cutting the bowline, the Kolbs

736
00:37:04.159 --> 00:37:06.920
<v Speaker 1>may have severed their best chance of possibly recovering Glenn

737
00:37:06.960 --> 00:37:10.519
<v Speaker 1>or Bessie. The other interesting detail is the alleged sighting

738
00:37:10.599 --> 00:37:13.280
<v Speaker 1>by the prospector of the brown leather jacket floating in

739
00:37:13.320 --> 00:37:17.239
<v Speaker 1>the Colorado River. Now, this jacket was never recovered and

740
00:37:17.280 --> 00:37:20.199
<v Speaker 1>no one could confirm this sighting was one hundred percent legitimate.

741
00:37:20.679 --> 00:37:23.679
<v Speaker 1>But if the prospector was telling the truth, what if

742
00:37:23.679 --> 00:37:25.960
<v Speaker 1>he did not just see a leather jacket, but rather

743
00:37:26.000 --> 00:37:28.840
<v Speaker 1>a jacket being worn by somebody whose body was floating

744
00:37:28.880 --> 00:37:31.880
<v Speaker 1>down the river. After all, Bessie was known to have

745
00:37:31.920 --> 00:37:34.800
<v Speaker 1>worn the jacket on this trip, so this sighting could

746
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:37.480
<v Speaker 1>have very well been the closest edyone ever came to

747
00:37:37.599 --> 00:37:40.519
<v Speaker 1>uncovering conclusive proof that the couple drowned.

748
00:37:41.440 --> 00:37:44.039
<v Speaker 3>Oh absolutely, I mean it could be something as simple

749
00:37:44.119 --> 00:37:46.239
<v Speaker 3>as the jacket fell out of the boat, it could

750
00:37:46.280 --> 00:37:48.960
<v Speaker 3>also be as tragic as saying, you know that was

751
00:37:49.000 --> 00:37:51.280
<v Speaker 3>not just the jacket, that was Bessie in the jacket

752
00:37:51.320 --> 00:37:54.760
<v Speaker 3>floating by. But when you talk about the rope, remember

753
00:37:54.880 --> 00:37:57.719
<v Speaker 3>it was lodged in those rocks, and when they're trying

754
00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:01.000
<v Speaker 3>to heave it out right, pull this line out, they can't.

755
00:38:01.119 --> 00:38:03.920
<v Speaker 3>There's something that's stuck on. The weight is there. So

756
00:38:04.079 --> 00:38:06.039
<v Speaker 3>you know, you would think if it's just a rope,

757
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:10.320
<v Speaker 3>it almost would feel like you could have an easier

758
00:38:10.400 --> 00:38:12.840
<v Speaker 3>chance of dislodging it. But if there's a weight attached

759
00:38:12.880 --> 00:38:16.000
<v Speaker 3>to that rope and then that weight is stuck underneath

760
00:38:16.079 --> 00:38:20.440
<v Speaker 3>something like an anchor, a body, something like that, it

761
00:38:20.480 --> 00:38:23.880
<v Speaker 3>makes it way harder to dislodge and get that rope

762
00:38:23.960 --> 00:38:26.079
<v Speaker 3>pulled out of those rocks. So think of the weight

763
00:38:26.119 --> 00:38:28.599
<v Speaker 3>it has on the boat itself and then the weight

764
00:38:28.639 --> 00:38:30.079
<v Speaker 3>it has of this object.

765
00:38:29.679 --> 00:38:31.000
<v Speaker 4>Pulling it underneath the water.

766
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:33.800
<v Speaker 3>And it really kind of creates like dental floss almost

767
00:38:33.840 --> 00:38:36.760
<v Speaker 3>where it's stuck down in between the two rocks because

768
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:38.920
<v Speaker 3>of the weight. But if you could, you know, let

769
00:38:39.000 --> 00:38:40.360
<v Speaker 3>go of the weight on one side, you could pull

770
00:38:40.400 --> 00:38:42.639
<v Speaker 3>it out of that crack, and so when they.

771
00:38:42.480 --> 00:38:43.639
<v Speaker 4>Cut it, who knows.

772
00:38:43.679 --> 00:38:45.199
<v Speaker 3>It could have been a tree log, It could have

773
00:38:45.280 --> 00:38:48.760
<v Speaker 3>been an actual little anchor that they had self created

774
00:38:48.840 --> 00:38:51.800
<v Speaker 3>right that got stuck. But it also could have been

775
00:38:51.840 --> 00:38:54.679
<v Speaker 3>a body. There's really zero way to know that. And

776
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:57.519
<v Speaker 3>it's sad when you think about the poor colds. They're

777
00:38:57.519 --> 00:38:59.760
<v Speaker 3>sitting there going, oh my god, did we like actually

778
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.000
<v Speaker 3>cut their bodies away? Or at least one of them.

779
00:39:02.360 --> 00:39:04.760
<v Speaker 3>There had to be some you said, there's regret. There

780
00:39:04.800 --> 00:39:07.159
<v Speaker 3>had to be some guilt and a lot of emotion

781
00:39:07.280 --> 00:39:10.000
<v Speaker 3>surrounding that too. Did we blow it? Because these are

782
00:39:10.119 --> 00:39:13.239
<v Speaker 3>two individuals who likely lost their lives in these waters,

783
00:39:13.280 --> 00:39:15.000
<v Speaker 3>but they had no way of knowing that.

784
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:18.199
<v Speaker 2>And I do wonder if either Glenn or Bessie, in

785
00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:20.960
<v Speaker 2>order to protect themselves, could have tied the bowline to

786
00:39:21.079 --> 00:39:23.880
<v Speaker 2>their legs. Like Bessie is a small person, so maybe

787
00:39:23.920 --> 00:39:26.079
<v Speaker 2>she was thinking, this will save me if I get

788
00:39:26.480 --> 00:39:29.360
<v Speaker 2>knocked out of the scow and I go overboard, or

789
00:39:29.400 --> 00:39:31.960
<v Speaker 2>maybe if Bessie fell in and Glenn decided, I'm going

790
00:39:32.000 --> 00:39:34.199
<v Speaker 2>to tie this to my leg so that I can

791
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:37.159
<v Speaker 2>go in and rescue her and hopefully remain tied to

792
00:39:37.199 --> 00:39:39.400
<v Speaker 2>the boat but still wound up drowning, and for all

793
00:39:39.440 --> 00:39:42.480
<v Speaker 2>we know, maybe if the sighting of the leather jack

794
00:39:42.639 --> 00:39:46.199
<v Speaker 2>was legitimate, maybe Betsy's body was floating downstream at that

795
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:49.159
<v Speaker 2>at a totally different spot. But Glenn was separated from

796
00:39:49.199 --> 00:39:51.840
<v Speaker 2>her because he was still tied to the bowline and

797
00:39:51.880 --> 00:39:54.400
<v Speaker 2>he was underwater next to the abandoned scow, and the

798
00:39:54.559 --> 00:39:57.840
<v Speaker 2>cold didn't even realize it. So when you look at

799
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:00.639
<v Speaker 2>all the evidence, the only explanation which made makes complete

800
00:40:00.679 --> 00:40:02.920
<v Speaker 2>sense is that Glenn and Bessie both fell out of

801
00:40:02.960 --> 00:40:05.599
<v Speaker 2>the scow and drowned, likely around the two hundred and

802
00:40:05.599 --> 00:40:08.840
<v Speaker 2>thirty two mile rapid, and their bodies were simply never recovered.

803
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:11.679
<v Speaker 2>All the other twists in turns of this story, such

804
00:40:11.679 --> 00:40:14.280
<v Speaker 2>as Emery kolbs skeleton and the woman claiming to be

805
00:40:14.280 --> 00:40:17.239
<v Speaker 2>Bessie Hyde, are nothing more than red herrings, though they

806
00:40:17.239 --> 00:40:19.079
<v Speaker 2>have allowed the legend of the story to live on

807
00:40:19.239 --> 00:40:21.639
<v Speaker 2>for nearly a century, and I'm sure this tale is

808
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:25.719
<v Speaker 2>still told around the campfire in the Grand Canyon today. Obviously,

809
00:40:25.800 --> 00:40:28.559
<v Speaker 2>given all the time that has passed, the Highs disappearance

810
00:40:28.599 --> 00:40:31.800
<v Speaker 2>is no longer being actively investigated by law enforcement, so

811
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:34.280
<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to advise you to contact the appropriate

812
00:40:34.280 --> 00:40:37.480
<v Speaker 2>authorities in case you have any information. I think the

813
00:40:37.519 --> 00:40:39.960
<v Speaker 2>only chance this case will ever have of being solved

814
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:42.960
<v Speaker 2>is if someone happens to stumble upon Glenn or Bessie's

815
00:40:42.960 --> 00:40:46.639
<v Speaker 2>skulls remains in the Colorado River somewhere, and with all

816
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:49.800
<v Speaker 2>the advances we've had with DNA technology, remains could be

817
00:40:49.840 --> 00:40:54.119
<v Speaker 2>positively identified if this ever occurred. Overall, however, I think

818
00:40:54.119 --> 00:40:56.679
<v Speaker 2>it's most likely this story is destined to remain an

819
00:40:56.719 --> 00:41:00.960
<v Speaker 2>unsolved mystery. Jules Ashley, any final thoughts on this case?

820
00:41:01.440 --> 00:41:03.519
<v Speaker 3>Okay, let me ask you guys this honestly, do you

821
00:41:03.599 --> 00:41:05.559
<v Speaker 3>know who fred Noonan.

822
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:07.800
<v Speaker 2>Is Amelia Earharts navigator?

823
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:08.239
<v Speaker 4>Dang it?

824
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:11.000
<v Speaker 3>No, Robin, I didn't know that, Okay, so let me

825
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:13.239
<v Speaker 3>just say I did not know that. But in the

826
00:41:13.239 --> 00:41:14.920
<v Speaker 3>back of my head, I was like, I'm pretty sure

827
00:41:16.280 --> 00:41:19.440
<v Speaker 3>that she had a male companion, but I don't know him,

828
00:41:19.639 --> 00:41:23.440
<v Speaker 3>Robin stop. I did not know who his name his

829
00:41:23.559 --> 00:41:26.320
<v Speaker 3>name was, And in my head I just kept thinking, Man,

830
00:41:26.519 --> 00:41:30.039
<v Speaker 3>had they made it, would Bessie be the next Amelia

831
00:41:30.079 --> 00:41:32.719
<v Speaker 3>Earhart of the rap is right where she's this woman

832
00:41:33.159 --> 00:41:36.519
<v Speaker 3>who Glenn even almost gets forgotten, and Bessie becomes this

833
00:41:36.760 --> 00:41:40.320
<v Speaker 3>person that I'm reading to my girls about, right about

834
00:41:40.360 --> 00:41:42.519
<v Speaker 3>this strong woman who has broken the mold.

835
00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:43.719
<v Speaker 4>She stepped out.

836
00:41:43.760 --> 00:41:46.280
<v Speaker 3>She's a legend in her own right, and Glenn or not,

837
00:41:46.760 --> 00:41:50.199
<v Speaker 3>Bessie has this legacy behind her, and so it's I

838
00:41:50.239 --> 00:41:52.039
<v Speaker 3>don't know. The whole time, I'm just kind of smiling

839
00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:53.440
<v Speaker 3>thinking of her on the cover of like a.

840
00:41:53.400 --> 00:41:54.280
<v Speaker 4>Who was book?

841
00:41:54.360 --> 00:41:54.519
<v Speaker 2>Right?

842
00:41:54.559 --> 00:41:55.960
<v Speaker 4>Who was Bessie?

843
00:41:56.119 --> 00:42:00.760
<v Speaker 3>And unfortunately you have these two newlyweds who had actually

844
00:42:00.800 --> 00:42:05.280
<v Speaker 3>like literally moved mountains and gone into hiding and tried

845
00:42:05.320 --> 00:42:09.639
<v Speaker 3>to set up residency and fled an abusive marriage all

846
00:42:09.840 --> 00:42:12.280
<v Speaker 3>for the name of love and freedom and kind of

847
00:42:12.320 --> 00:42:15.760
<v Speaker 3>this hunt for adventure. And we have no way of

848
00:42:15.800 --> 00:42:18.280
<v Speaker 3>knowing what happened to them, but most likely in their

849
00:42:18.320 --> 00:42:21.159
<v Speaker 3>pursuit of creating this story that they could go around

850
00:42:21.159 --> 00:42:24.719
<v Speaker 3>the world and tour telling people, they ended up losing

851
00:42:24.719 --> 00:42:29.320
<v Speaker 3>their lives together. Which is just this really tragic start

852
00:42:29.480 --> 00:42:31.800
<v Speaker 3>to what should have been a really long, adventurous life

853
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:33.639
<v Speaker 3>together and it was cut short.

854
00:42:34.559 --> 00:42:37.559
<v Speaker 1>It really is a sad case. Betsy was such a

855
00:42:37.599 --> 00:42:42.360
<v Speaker 1>trailblazer at this time to be going from having this

856
00:42:42.440 --> 00:42:46.400
<v Speaker 1>really difficult husband who was prone to these violent outbursts

857
00:42:46.480 --> 00:42:49.480
<v Speaker 1>and for her to go, I don't want to be

858
00:42:49.559 --> 00:42:51.800
<v Speaker 1>with this man. She had the fortitude to leave him,

859
00:42:52.280 --> 00:42:54.599
<v Speaker 1>and even when he didn't want to grant her a divorce,

860
00:42:55.239 --> 00:42:58.679
<v Speaker 1>she doggedly pursued that she moved so that to a

861
00:42:58.679 --> 00:43:01.639
<v Speaker 1>different state so that she would have an easier time

862
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:04.320
<v Speaker 1>divorcing him, and she basically did an abventia because he

863
00:43:04.360 --> 00:43:07.880
<v Speaker 1>didn't show up. She goes on to Mary Glenn and

864
00:43:07.920 --> 00:43:11.960
<v Speaker 1>they have this amazing adventure planned and I can imagine

865
00:43:12.000 --> 00:43:14.840
<v Speaker 1>how exciting it would be, Like this is like climbing

866
00:43:14.880 --> 00:43:18.480
<v Speaker 1>a mountain. Like I said earlier, you got this exciting

867
00:43:18.519 --> 00:43:21.679
<v Speaker 1>prospect that very few people have been able to accomplish this,

868
00:43:22.159 --> 00:43:25.000
<v Speaker 1>and Glenn has made this boat and although I'm sure

869
00:43:25.039 --> 00:43:28.480
<v Speaker 1>it was a little bit scary, it was also very exciting.

870
00:43:28.840 --> 00:43:31.440
<v Speaker 1>So to think of their mindset at the beginning of

871
00:43:31.480 --> 00:43:36.119
<v Speaker 1>this trip to them disappearing, it's very sad. And then

872
00:43:36.199 --> 00:43:38.559
<v Speaker 1>I do think it does get very convoluted when you've

873
00:43:38.559 --> 00:43:43.079
<v Speaker 1>got Cutler confessing to being Bessie and murdering her husband,

874
00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:47.679
<v Speaker 1>and then Georgie having this marriage certificate and having the

875
00:43:47.800 --> 00:43:52.119
<v Speaker 1>name so similar that it can be very compelling. But

876
00:43:52.360 --> 00:43:55.159
<v Speaker 1>it's very obvious that these two people were not Bessie.

877
00:43:55.800 --> 00:43:58.760
<v Speaker 1>I think that the most likely scenario is that they

878
00:43:58.840 --> 00:44:01.519
<v Speaker 1>perished in this river. I didn't even realize it was

879
00:44:01.559 --> 00:44:04.639
<v Speaker 1>one week when they started the search efforts, so those

880
00:44:04.639 --> 00:44:07.360
<v Speaker 1>bodies very likely could have surfaced and then gone back

881
00:44:07.360 --> 00:44:08.519
<v Speaker 1>down again in that time.

882
00:44:09.400 --> 00:44:11.599
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I mentioned many times that I was introduced to

883
00:44:11.639 --> 00:44:13.519
<v Speaker 2>this story as a child when it was featured on

884
00:44:13.599 --> 00:44:17.079
<v Speaker 2>Unsolved Mysteries, and we've talked about what a trailblazer Bessie was,

885
00:44:17.159 --> 00:44:19.320
<v Speaker 2>but the segment kind of does a disservice to her

886
00:44:19.360 --> 00:44:22.000
<v Speaker 2>because they don't really talk about her achievements and her

887
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.719
<v Speaker 2>prior divorce or anything like that, and kind of makes

888
00:44:24.760 --> 00:44:27.639
<v Speaker 2>it look like she was kind of a naive newlywed

889
00:44:27.679 --> 00:44:30.239
<v Speaker 2>who was dragged along on this trip by her domineering

890
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:33.400
<v Speaker 2>husband and wasn't that enthusiastic about it. But actually she

891
00:44:33.559 --> 00:44:36.239
<v Speaker 2>was a very adventurous person who really loved her husband

892
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:38.800
<v Speaker 2>and was hoping to make history, possibly go down in

893
00:44:38.840 --> 00:44:42.599
<v Speaker 2>the history books like Amelia Earhart. But unfortunately she became

894
00:44:42.679 --> 00:44:45.760
<v Speaker 2>famous for a completely different reason, and that was vanishing

895
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:48.320
<v Speaker 2>without a trace. Of course, back when I watched this

896
00:44:48.679 --> 00:44:50.599
<v Speaker 2>on TV in the eighties, I thought there was some

897
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:53.760
<v Speaker 2>credence to the idea that maybe Bessie was still alive

898
00:44:53.960 --> 00:44:56.840
<v Speaker 2>and had killed Glen and had hiked out of the

899
00:44:56.840 --> 00:44:59.360
<v Speaker 2>canyon and started a new life under a new identity.

900
00:45:00.039 --> 00:45:03.480
<v Speaker 2>Also wondered like if Emery Cole was involved in their disappearances,

901
00:45:03.599 --> 00:45:06.639
<v Speaker 2>and what this big mystery was with the skeleton inside

902
00:45:06.639 --> 00:45:09.360
<v Speaker 2>his boat house. But once you do further research into this,

903
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:11.320
<v Speaker 2>you find out that a lot of this stuff isn't

904
00:45:11.360 --> 00:45:13.559
<v Speaker 2>as mysterious as as it looks, and that all these

905
00:45:13.599 --> 00:45:16.840
<v Speaker 2>angles with like Elizabeth Cutler and Georgie white Clark and

906
00:45:16.920 --> 00:45:20.119
<v Speaker 2>the cold skeleton are nothing more than red herrings, and

907
00:45:20.199 --> 00:45:23.199
<v Speaker 2>that the simplest explanation is probably the correct one, and

908
00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:26.360
<v Speaker 2>Glenn and Besley probably just drowned after falling out of

909
00:45:26.360 --> 00:45:28.920
<v Speaker 2>their boat and are still somewhere in the Grand Canyon.

910
00:45:29.639 --> 00:45:31.440
<v Speaker 2>I got to give a shout out to the excellent

911
00:45:31.480 --> 00:45:34.960
<v Speaker 2>book Sunk Without a Sound by Brad Dimmick, and Ashley

912
00:45:35.039 --> 00:45:37.360
<v Speaker 2>was talking about at the startup part one, how terrifying

913
00:45:37.400 --> 00:45:40.000
<v Speaker 2>it sounded, the idea of going down the entire Grand

914
00:45:40.039 --> 00:45:42.920
<v Speaker 2>Canyon on the Colorado River on a wooden scow back

915
00:45:42.920 --> 00:45:46.039
<v Speaker 2>in the nineteen twenties, and Brad Dimmick decided to recreate that.

916
00:45:46.199 --> 00:45:48.599
<v Speaker 2>He took the initiative to build his own scow so

917
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:51.440
<v Speaker 2>that he could try to recreate Glenn and Bessie's journey

918
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:53.880
<v Speaker 2>as accurately as possible in order to figure out what

919
00:45:53.920 --> 00:45:56.119
<v Speaker 2>happened to them. Even though it sounds like a pretty

920
00:45:56.199 --> 00:45:59.119
<v Speaker 2>terrifying prospect in modern times to go on such a

921
00:45:59.199 --> 00:46:02.000
<v Speaker 2>lengthy trip on such a primitive boat, but it did

922
00:46:02.039 --> 00:46:05.159
<v Speaker 2>pay off, and the book does provide an excellent recounting

923
00:46:05.199 --> 00:46:07.639
<v Speaker 2>of the events and comes up with the most logical

924
00:46:07.679 --> 00:46:11.079
<v Speaker 2>theory about what might have happened. But regardless, this is

925
00:46:11.079 --> 00:46:14.880
<v Speaker 2>still a fascinating mystery, and even though a full centuries passed,

926
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:17.519
<v Speaker 2>it has not been forgotten, and I'm sure people won't

927
00:46:17.559 --> 00:46:20.079
<v Speaker 2>be talking about it still for centuries to come.

928
00:46:21.239 --> 00:46:22.719
<v Speaker 1>Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit

929
00:46:22.760 --> 00:46:23.760
<v Speaker 1>about the Trail Went Cold?

930
00:46:23.760 --> 00:46:24.239
<v Speaker 4>Patreon?

931
00:46:24.960 --> 00:46:27.320
<v Speaker 2>Yes, The Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three

932
00:46:27.400 --> 00:46:31.159
<v Speaker 2>years now, and we offer these standard bonus features like

933
00:46:31.239 --> 00:46:34.599
<v Speaker 2>early ad free episodes, and I also send out stickers

934
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:37.480
<v Speaker 2>and sign thank you cards to anyone who signs up

935
00:46:37.519 --> 00:46:40.119
<v Speaker 2>with us on Patreon if you join our five dollars

936
00:46:40.119 --> 00:46:44.199
<v Speaker 2>tier Tier two. We also offer monthly bonus episodes in

937
00:46:44.239 --> 00:46:47.400
<v Speaker 2>which I talk about cases which are not featured on

938
00:46:47.440 --> 00:46:50.239
<v Speaker 2>The Trail Went Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to

939
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:53.360
<v Speaker 2>Patreon and if you join our highest tier tier free

940
00:46:53.480 --> 00:46:56.199
<v Speaker 2>the ten dollars tier. One of the features we offer

941
00:46:56.440 --> 00:47:00.880
<v Speaker 2>is a audio commentary track over classic episodes of Saw Mysteries,

942
00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:04.119
<v Speaker 2>where you can download an audio file and then boot

943
00:47:04.159 --> 00:47:07.400
<v Speaker 2>up the original Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or

944
00:47:07.400 --> 00:47:10.800
<v Speaker 2>YouTube and play it with my audio commentary playing in

945
00:47:10.840 --> 00:47:13.960
<v Speaker 2>the background, where I just provide trivia and factoids about

946
00:47:13.960 --> 00:47:17.400
<v Speaker 2>the cases featured in this episode. And incidentally, the very

947
00:47:17.440 --> 00:47:20.280
<v Speaker 2>first episode that I did a commentary track over was

948
00:47:20.320 --> 00:47:23.079
<v Speaker 2>the episode featuring this case. So if you want to

949
00:47:23.119 --> 00:47:25.840
<v Speaker 2>download a commentary track in which I make more smart

950
00:47:25.840 --> 00:47:28.880
<v Speaker 2>ass remarks about Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join

951
00:47:28.960 --> 00:47:29.679
<v Speaker 2>Tier three.

952
00:47:29.880 --> 00:47:31.400
<v Speaker 5>So I want to let you know a little bit

953
00:47:31.400 --> 00:47:34.360
<v Speaker 5>about the Jules and Nashty Patreons. So there's early ad

954
00:47:34.400 --> 00:47:37.280
<v Speaker 5>free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our

955
00:47:37.320 --> 00:47:40.119
<v Speaker 5>Path Went Chili mini's, which are always over an hour,

956
00:47:40.239 --> 00:47:42.360
<v Speaker 5>so they're not very many, but they're just too short

957
00:47:42.400 --> 00:47:45.400
<v Speaker 5>to turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those,

958
00:47:45.480 --> 00:47:48.039
<v Speaker 5>so we hope you'll check out those patreons, we'll link

959
00:47:48.079 --> 00:47:49.159
<v Speaker 5>them in the show notes.

960
00:47:49.639 --> 00:47:51.559
<v Speaker 2>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

961
00:47:51.679 --> 00:47:54.039
<v Speaker 2>any chance you have to share us on social media

962
00:47:54.079 --> 00:47:56.400
<v Speaker 2>with a friend or d rate and review is greatly

963
00:47:56.440 --> 00:47:59.000
<v Speaker 2>appreciate it. You can email us at the pathwent Chili

964
00:47:59.039 --> 00:48:01.679
<v Speaker 2>at gmail dot com. You can reach us on Twitter

965
00:48:01.760 --> 00:48:04.480
<v Speaker 2>at the Pathwin. So until next time, be sure to

966
00:48:04.519 --> 00:48:07.679
<v Speaker 2>bundle up because cold trails and chili pass call for

967
00:48:07.760 --> 00:48:08.400
<v Speaker 2>warm clothing.

968
00:48:08.599 --> 00:48:11.760
<v Speaker 1>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Callers Comedy