Speaker 1: Kay Shannon, ay Tanya, how are you?
Speaker 2: I am doing great. How are you today?
Speaker 3: I'm doing good, good, just getting ready for the cold
Speaker 3: winter that's a coming.
Speaker 1: But we had to be a day today here.
Speaker 2: Yead it was I view it was a rusher and high.
Speaker 2: I think it was like eighty degrees today.
Speaker 3: Oh my goodness. And it was forecasted for like seventy four.
Speaker 3: It was hot, it was I was inside most of
Speaker 3: the day getting stuff done. But it was a good
Speaker 3: day it was.
Speaker 2: And I think now the weather will dip down into
Speaker 2: our fall temperatures. I like the fall. I like the too.
Speaker 2: I don't mind, even though you know I do miss
Speaker 2: a little bit warmer. Today was a little too warm.
Speaker 2: I don't like it in eighty degrees. I like it
Speaker 2: at seventy.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, especially October. Right.
Speaker 2: I will take an eighty degree October day though, Yeah.
Speaker 1: No problem. I won't turn it down.
Speaker 2: No, I won't turn it down. So which you got
Speaker 2: for us today?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 3: I got a little story today about a woman named
Speaker 3: Mary Beth Tinning now Mary Beth Tinning. She was born
Speaker 3: Mary Beth Rowe Roe on September eleventh, nineteen forty two.
Speaker 3: In the small town of Dwaynesburg, which is about ten
Speaker 3: miles south of Schenectady, New York.
Speaker 1: That's such a.
Speaker 3: Cool city spelling and pronunciation Schenectady, Schenectady. You really gotta
Speaker 3: not have marbles in your mouth when you say it.
Speaker 1: So. Her mother, she was a stay at home.
Speaker 3: Mom, and her dad, Alton Rowe, he worked as a
Speaker 3: press operator at General Electric. And she did have a
Speaker 3: younger brother and the two had a fairly normal childhood.
Speaker 3: Now with that being said, Mary Beth did once claim
Speaker 3: that her father had abused her as a child. During
Speaker 3: a police interview in nineteen eighty sive, she told one
Speaker 3: investigator that her father had beaten her and locked her
Speaker 3: in a closet, but later during court testimony, she denied
Speaker 3: that her father had bad intentions. She said, my father
Speaker 3: hit me with the fly swatter because he had arthritis
Speaker 3: and his hands were not much use, and when he
Speaker 3: locked me in my room, I guess he thought I
Speaker 3: deserved it. So that's her claiman other than that, growing
Speaker 3: up was normal for Mary Beth. Aside from her good looks,
Speaker 3: she really wasn't remarkable.
Speaker 1: She attended high.
Speaker 3: School where she was an average student, and she really
Speaker 3: didn't have much else going on for her.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: While Mary Beth aspired to attend college, it never ended
Speaker 3: up happening for her. Instead, she began working a variety
Speaker 3: of low paying jobs that didn't require much schooling, nor
Speaker 3: did they allow for much growth to build a future
Speaker 3: for her.
Speaker 2: Yeah, some dead on jobs.
Speaker 1: Yeah, sounds like my twenties.
Speaker 3: She eventually became a nurse's aide at Ellis Hospital in Schenectady,
Speaker 3: and while there she was a hard worker, but again,
Speaker 3: she was just average. Never really went the extra bile,
Speaker 3: you know, just did enough to just do enough. So
Speaker 3: in nineteen sixty three, this is when she meets Joe
Speaker 3: Tinning on a blind date with some friends. Joe was
Speaker 3: kind and shy and kept to himself and out of trouble,
Speaker 3: so together they made the perfect mediocre couple. They married
Speaker 3: in the spring of nineteen sixty five and seemed to
Speaker 3: take life as it came, nothing more and nothing less.
Speaker 3: So one would say that they were a normal, hard
Speaker 3: working couple trying their best to make a decent and
Speaker 3: honest living.
Speaker 1: Nothing much stood out about them.
Speaker 3: They were no different than the next newlyweds, that is
Speaker 3: until their kids started dying.
Speaker 1: Oh, no right now.
Speaker 3: Barbara Barbara was their first child, and she's born in
Speaker 3: nineteen sixty seven, just two years after the happy couple
Speaker 3: was married. And as far as anyone could see, baby
Speaker 3: Barbara was happy.
Speaker 1: And so were the Tinnings.
Speaker 3: From the outside looking in, Mary Beth seemed to be
Speaker 3: a good mother, and she could often be seen Dody
Speaker 3: gun Barbara whenever they were.
Speaker 1: In public, so it didn't take long for them to
Speaker 1: begin growing their little family. In nineteen eighty.
Speaker 3: Seven, their second child, Joseph Junior, was born, and all
Speaker 3: seemed perfect in the Tinning household. Mary Beth even told
Speaker 3: friends and family that she planned to have more children.
Speaker 1: However, no one could see all the.
Speaker 3: Problems brewing just beneath the surface, so her and Joe
Speaker 3: began having problems as Mary Beth would give him a
Speaker 3: hard time behind closed doors and then poses the perfect
Speaker 3: wife in front of people. You know, that must have
Speaker 3: been something in the sixties, or you know, kind of
Speaker 3: look at more so Turner classic movies. Look at those
Speaker 3: black and whites, See how you know they kids? Art
Speaker 3: imitates life right, put in a Betty Betty Davis film.
Speaker 3: See what she says behind closed doors?
Speaker 2: And then oh, hello, he like years.
Speaker 3: Little did anyone know that this was just the beginning
Speaker 3: of what would turn into a full blown killing spree.
Speaker 3: Oh no, exactly in nineteen seventy one. October of nineteen
Speaker 3: seventy one, Mary Beth's father died of a sudden heart attack.
Speaker 3: Then just two months later, in December, Mary Beth gave
Speaker 3: birth to her third child, Jennifer. Even with the recent
Speaker 3: death of her father, all seemed to be good and
Speaker 3: the couple appeared happy. But then just eight days later,
Speaker 3: Mary Beth brought an unresponsive Jennifer into the local emergency room. Sadly,
Speaker 3: Jennifer was dead on January third, nineteen seventy two, and
Speaker 3: after being examined, the doctors ruled that she had died
Speaker 3: from hemorrhage meningitis in brain abscesses.
Speaker 1: Oh really yeah.
Speaker 3: Dealing with the sudden death of her father and now
Speaker 3: her daughter was just too much for Marybeth's fragile mental condition.
Speaker 3: She was never a happy, well adjusted adult to begin with,
Speaker 3: which didn't help matters. She often referred to as strange
Speaker 3: by neighbors and family. Mary Beth now has only become
Speaker 3: more distant and withdrawn with these horrible events. Now the
Speaker 3: couple had no choice but to return to work so
Speaker 3: they could support their two other children. So they were
Speaker 3: dealing with the tragedy as best as they could now.
Speaker 3: Just seventeen days later, on January twentieth, nineteen seventy two,
Speaker 3: two year old Joseph Junior was also brought to the
Speaker 3: emergency room unresponsive. Mary Beth claimed that he had some
Speaker 3: type of seizure. He was kept for observation, but when
Speaker 3: the doctors couldn't find anything wrong with him, they sent
Speaker 3: him home with Mary Beth.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 3: Just a few hours later, Mary Beth returned to the er,
Speaker 3: except this time Joseph Junior was for sure dead.
Speaker 1: She had told doctors that she had placed.
Speaker 3: Him in bed, only to return later and find his
Speaker 3: blue body tangled in the sheets. He was taking a nap,
Speaker 3: Mary Bethy told detectives in a later statement, it was
Speaker 3: close to his birthday and he had slept and taken
Speaker 3: a nap, slept unusually long. Unfortunately I did not go
Speaker 3: in to check on him, and when I did, he
Speaker 3: appeared to be having respiratory problems of which I did
Speaker 3: not cause.
Speaker 2: Okay, yusific, you just case on yourself exactly.
Speaker 3: Yeah, his death was listed as unknown, and there was
Speaker 3: never an autopsy performed. He died that night from what
Speaker 3: doctor said was a cardio pulmonary arrest, which means simply
Speaker 3: he stopped breathing. Really and he's now barely six weeks Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: It's yeah that I don't understand the no autopsy here.
Speaker 2: Is it? Because it's the seventies.
Speaker 3: I mean, you just it must be the navete even,
Speaker 3: you know, like, oh, surely someone's not going to poison
Speaker 3: all the title in all.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, no, yeah, like okay, this is a little
Speaker 2: baby like you know.
Speaker 1: Yes, not a little baby tragedy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but you know what I right, But yeah, like
Speaker 3: the age of where people did not take so gross
Speaker 3: advantage of someone's vulnerability. Right now, barely six weeks later,
Speaker 3: Mary Beth was back at that same emergency room, this
Speaker 3: time with her four year old Barbara, who was unresponsive. Jesus,
Speaker 3: she told the doctors that Barbara had gone into convulsions.
Speaker 3: The doctors told Mary Beth they wanted to keep her
Speaker 3: daughter overnight, but Mary Beth insisted on taking her home,
Speaker 3: and several hours later, just like the incident with Joseph Junior,
Speaker 3: she returned with Barbara, who was unconscious. The child later
Speaker 3: died in the hospital bed from unknown causes, and when
Speaker 3: police asked Mary Beth about this incident years later, she
Speaker 3: barely remembered it.
Speaker 2: Really, you don't remember.
Speaker 3: You don't remember Barbara's, Joseph Junior's or I mean, I
Speaker 3: guess specifically Barbara's.
Speaker 1: Yeah, right, I find that to be an untruth.
Speaker 3: Me too, girl, Yes, so she told investigators the following
Speaker 3: I had a daughter while and while I was sleeping,
Speaker 3: she called out to me, and I went in and
Speaker 3: she was having a convulsion. I guess I don't even
Speaker 3: remember what I just I don't remember if we took
Speaker 3: her by ambulance or if we just took her. But anyway,
Speaker 3: we got there and they did whatever they did.
Speaker 2: Really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Barbara ended.
Speaker 3: Up dying from what doctors believed to be Rice syndrome,
Speaker 3: which is a rare but serious condition causes confusion, dwelling
Speaker 3: in the brain, liver damp. However, it was never proven.
Speaker 3: And you're right, it's the seventh it's nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 2: Yeah, something like that, right, Yeah.
Speaker 3: M From the outside looking in, things didn't look so
Speaker 3: great on the tinnings part, however, no one seemed to
Speaker 3: suspect them of any wrongdoing.
Speaker 1: If anything, people thought that their.
Speaker 3: Tragic losses may have something to do with a genetic disorder. So,
Speaker 3: whether it was because of Marybeth's quiet nature, which helped
Speaker 3: aid her in her role as a caregiver, or the
Speaker 3: fact that the Tinnings were seen as pillars in the community,
Speaker 3: local police and doctors didn't think twice about digging any deeper.
Speaker 1: Plus, they no longer had any kids left to kill,
Speaker 1: so life went on as it does.
Speaker 2: Didn't you do a story recently, like in the last
Speaker 2: month or so where it was children were dying like
Speaker 2: this and they thought it was a genetic problem. And
Speaker 2: which story was that?
Speaker 3: I don't know, I know, that's I can't remember, but
Speaker 3: that's like a good place to hide bodies is to
Speaker 3: imply that it's because my family has a genetic disorder.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, Like, how do you know in nineteen seventy two.
Speaker 3: Yes, exactly, this is prime where people are like learning
Speaker 3: how to take advantage of people's vulnerabilities, and this is
Speaker 3: what happens fifty years later, the society we live in today.
Speaker 3: The couple remained without child for more than a year
Speaker 3: until mary Beth got pregnant again in nineteen seventy three
Speaker 3: early nineteen seventy three, and on Thanksgiving Day she gave
Speaker 3: birth to Timothy, her fourth child, and she brought Timothy
Speaker 3: home and it seemed that things were starting to look
Speaker 3: up after all. Timothy could be the addition to the
Speaker 3: family that the Tennings needed more than anything to move
Speaker 3: on and forward. However, about two weeks after Timothy was born,
Speaker 3: on December tenth, Mary Beth brought the unresponsive baby into
Speaker 3: the hospital.
Speaker 1: While she seemed like she.
Speaker 3: Was becoming a regular at the emergency center, there always
Speaker 3: seemed to be a legitimate and justified reason for what
Speaker 3: was happening, at least.
Speaker 1: In her eyes.
Speaker 3: Right, So yeah, since Timothy showed no outward signs of trauma,
Speaker 3: Mary Beth claimed she had found him lifeless in the crib.
Speaker 3: He was ruled the victim of crib death better known
Speaker 3: as SIDS of such an Infant death syndrome. Now the
Speaker 3: locals were talking people. Fortunately number four third time is
Speaker 3: not the term. It's the yeah, the fourth, So they're people,
Speaker 3: they're talking. People were curious as to how a family
Speaker 3: could have such bad look.
Speaker 1: However, those closest to them.
Speaker 3: Continued to fully support the Tinnings in their long road
Speaker 3: of grief. Joe confided in his brother Andy and told
Speaker 3: him that lately his food had been tasting weird. His
Speaker 3: brother promptly told him to look into that, but Joe
Speaker 3: brushed it off as nothing.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's probably nothing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's nothing. Huh.
Speaker 3: Suddenly I feel all of my home food is tasting weird.
Speaker 3: In nineteen seventy four, Mary Beth called Joe's brother and
Speaker 3: said Joe's dead, and when Andy showed up with his
Speaker 3: wife Carol, Joe was lying on the ground with a
Speaker 3: bluish purple face and twisted up in the bed sheets,
Speaker 3: and Mary Beth stood in the corner repeating, I didn't
Speaker 3: do it.
Speaker 1: I didn't do it. What these I don't get now.
Speaker 3: I'm pissed now, I'm like, fuck, nineteen seventy whatever, use
Speaker 3: your brains.
Speaker 1: Okay, come on now, I mean I didn't do it.
Speaker 1: This is smoking gunshit, you know, so mind you.
Speaker 3: Mary Beth was fully dressed but hadn't even tried calling
Speaker 3: the police or ambulance yet. Andy began giving him CPR
Speaker 3: while an ambulance was called, and once at the hospital,
Speaker 3: was discovered that Mary Beth had given Joe a nearly
Speaker 3: deadly dose of barbituates.
Speaker 1: The police were called.
Speaker 3: However, Joe refused to hold his wife accountable.
Speaker 2: So he survived this.
Speaker 3: He survived this and was told that she gave him
Speaker 3: this humongous.
Speaker 1: Dose and he was like, you know what, I'm okay.
Speaker 2: I'm okay, I don't die, I'm fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but did you die? You die?
Speaker 3: Well the police should have known better and investigated the
Speaker 3: matter further. Law enforcement at the time was very different
Speaker 3: than it was today, and back then, if the victim
Speaker 3: didn't want or wish to pursue matters, then the police
Speaker 3: and prosecutors usually wouldn't either.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're like, I'm done.
Speaker 3: I know when Farah faucet the burning bed. Yes, that
Speaker 3: story is what changed. I believe the whole will prosecute
Speaker 3: on behalf of the assaulted. You don't have to worry
Speaker 3: about wanting to We'll do it for you. The state
Speaker 3: takes over.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the state takes over.
Speaker 3: Mary Beth became pregnant again with what would be her
Speaker 3: fifth child on March thirtieth, nineteen seventy five.
Speaker 1: It was Easter Sunday.
Speaker 3: Nathan was born, and as onlookers waited for the next
Speaker 3: tragedy to strike, It simply didn't, at least not until
Speaker 3: September Tewod, when Mary Beth rushed an unresponsive five month
Speaker 3: old Nathan into the emergency room. She claimed that she
Speaker 3: was driving with Nathan in the front seat when he
Speaker 3: suddenly stopped breathing. Unfortunately, the doctors weren't unable to revive
Speaker 3: him again. The fact that there was no outward trauma
Speaker 3: visible coupled with Marybeth's story, the doctors ruled him as
Speaker 3: a victim of SIDS.
Speaker 2: Wow, the fifth child, Mmm, this is it is It's insane.
Speaker 1: Fifth child.
Speaker 2: It's just this is criminal that they're really even for
Speaker 2: It's criminal for the decade. Yeah, it's really like they're
Speaker 2: just failing these children.
Speaker 1: This is it's for sure now, I know.
Speaker 3: The knowledge of SIDS was still scarce in this day
Speaker 3: and age. However, doctors should have at least known that
Speaker 3: it wasn't something that was genetic. Therefore, the odds of
Speaker 3: multiple babies dying from it and the same family was
Speaker 3: not only rare, but would have been the direct result
Speaker 3: of neglect or premeditation.
Speaker 1: That's how non genetic SIDS is. It's nothing like genetic.
Speaker 3: It's not.
Speaker 1: Yeah, therefore, the odds.
Speaker 3: Of having multiple babies from this same family, that's not Jeans,
Speaker 3: that's premeditation, that's something that's not Jens. So but still,
Speaker 3: no serious questions had been raised by local officials regarding
Speaker 3: the Tinning family or lack thereof. So years had gone
Speaker 3: by and anyone who may have had any kind of
Speaker 3: real suspicions about the Tinning family was soon forgotten. Even
Speaker 3: the people who were responsible for advocating on the behalf
Speaker 3: of the children of New York failed to investigate Marybeth's
Speaker 3: background when she applied to adopt a child.
Speaker 1: No Yes.
Speaker 3: In nineteen seventy eight, the Tinnings entered into the adoption process,
Speaker 3: which isn't much different than it is today. Interested parties
Speaker 3: were required to submit a background check by the state,
Speaker 3: which included a complete examination of the adoptee's criminal and
Speaker 3: financial records. Since neither Mary Beth or Joe had a
Speaker 3: criminal une record and both were gainfully employed, they easily
Speaker 3: passed the first round of the adoption process. Wow, so funny,
Speaker 3: I was born in New York, right, yeah? And whether
Speaker 3: until Cuomo Governor Cuomo when he said that seals could
Speaker 3: be opened and that's how I found everybody.
Speaker 1: My sisters and my brother, and that's how.
Speaker 3: But the process is so different, so different, I think
Speaker 3: about it, and like them having no criminal record, is
Speaker 3: that I can see them passing the first round.
Speaker 1: Just anybody, ken if you meet those two things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right right, Yeah, there's there's millions of people in
Speaker 2: this country that don't criminal records. So okay, not.
Speaker 1: Really a red flag here.
Speaker 3: But a social worker went then interviewed the couple and
Speaker 3: visited their home to make sure that it was suitable
Speaker 3: for a child, and the Tintings also passed this part
Speaker 3: of the process.
Speaker 1: US.
Speaker 3: Now, while the death of her five children should have
Speaker 3: been a huge red flag, Mary Beth assured the social
Speaker 3: worker that they were all due to natural causes and
Speaker 3: that she had the doctor's records.
Speaker 1: To prove it.
Speaker 3: M you know, this is a lot of like yeah,
Speaker 3: I can get them to you later type of time
Speaker 3: period too, or just take my word for.
Speaker 2: It, right right, yeah, Like oh they seem like such
Speaker 2: a nice people.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And she.
Speaker 3: Said she had the doctors to prove it. I'm sure
Speaker 3: she had worked on her story. She's got Yeah.
Speaker 2: If she says she's got them, she.
Speaker 1: Must she must why would she lie to me?
Speaker 2: Would?
Speaker 1: Why children? Right? So, Mary Beth explained that while they
Speaker 1: wanted nothing.
Speaker 3: More than to have children, she believed that something was
Speaker 3: wrong with her and Joe, which prevented this from happening
Speaker 3: for them. She ended by saying that she thought it
Speaker 3: was wiser and safer to go through the adoption route charmer.
Speaker 3: Her words seemed to resonate just enough a boring couple
Speaker 3: could eat well, she could, you know, get the waves
Speaker 3: needed to charm, you know, get people to do what
Speaker 3: you want now. The state of New York agreed to
Speaker 3: allow the Tinnings to adapt, and in nineteen seventy eight,
Speaker 3: the couple welcome an infant boy, whom they named Michael,
Speaker 3: into the world.
Speaker 1: And wouldn't you.
Speaker 3: Know it, During the adoption process, Mary Beth found herself
Speaker 3: pregnant once again. On October twenty ninth, nineteen seventy eight,
Speaker 3: she gave birth to a baby girl named Mary Francis.
Speaker 3: Oh I do love two memes. People actually started to
Speaker 3: believe that maybe this was the beginning of the Tinnings
Speaker 3: having their perfect family, but they would be wrong, because
Speaker 3: in January nineteen seventy nine, Mary Beth brought an unresponsive
Speaker 3: Mary Francis into the emergency room for what she said,
Speaker 3: with some kind of seizure. Thankfully, the doctors were able
Speaker 3: to revive the baby girl, who they then sent home
Speaker 3: with Mary Beth. But one month later, on February twentieth,
Speaker 3: Mary Beth came running back into the hospital with four
Speaker 3: month old Mary Francis. This time the doctors were not
Speaker 3: able to save her. She was brain dead. I know,
Speaker 3: of course. All Mary Beth had to say for herself
Speaker 3: was that she found the baby girl unconscious and did
Speaker 3: not know what had happened to her. What happened And
Speaker 3: this is a broken record.
Speaker 1: Yes, I'm sure doctors have put notes in. This is
Speaker 1: now number six.
Speaker 2: Yes, so you have six serial killer.
Speaker 3: Man previous exactly cases. There is really nothing to say.
Speaker 3: She told investigators years later that I found her in
Speaker 3: her crib, one responsive.
Speaker 1: I believe Joe was there, I can't remember.
Speaker 3: An autopsy was performed but failed to find a reason
Speaker 3: for death, and therefore it deemed SIDS once again. So
Speaker 3: on November nineteenth, nineteen seventy nine, the Tinnings welcomed Jonathan
Speaker 3: into their family, their eighth child. In March nineteen eighty,
Speaker 3: he was brought into the hospital in the same fashion
Speaker 3: as his siblings, were unresponsive. Like Mary Francis, the doctors
Speaker 3: were able to revive him, but this time they took
Speaker 3: into consideration the Tinnings history and took extra precautions. So finally, yes,
Speaker 3: on maybe eight. The healthcare professionals were concerned about all
Speaker 3: the deaths in the Tinning family, but still thought that
Speaker 3: maybe it was genetically related.
Speaker 1: God, we were.
Speaker 3: So this shows how much like it isn't so important
Speaker 3: to invest in medicine, in discoveries of medicine. We have
Speaker 3: been dealing with things too long, you know what I'm saying,
Speaker 3: Jerry's kids, things that while we have been fifty years
Speaker 3: really no progress, we're still acting like this is something.
Speaker 1: So now I don't believe it. I be believe we're
Speaker 1: so much smarter than this.
Speaker 3: And for this, you know, taking to the eighth child,
Speaker 3: I don't. To me, it's starting getting lazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like, you know, not like she's all over the country.
Speaker 2: She's probably going into the same fucking hospital. Everything says, yes,
Speaker 2: you know, because she's.
Speaker 3: Not going to the county hospital. She's not even switching
Speaker 3: hospitals and it's the same. But she's got this you know,
Speaker 3: running narrative of oh, it's a genetics because they don't
Speaker 3: know enough to say no, it isn't yet, so okay now,
Speaker 3: The healthcare professionals were concerned about all the deaths in
Speaker 3: the Tinning family, but still thought that maybe it was
Speaker 3: genetically related, or that maybe it had something to do
Speaker 3: with the family home. Either way, Jonathan was sent to
Speaker 3: Boston Children's Hospital, where he was examined by the best
Speaker 3: pediatricians and experts around. However, the doctors couldn't find a
Speaker 3: single valid reason why the infant should suddenly stop breathing,
Speaker 3: so as a result, Jonathan was sent home with his mom.
Speaker 1: Oh man and yeah.
Speaker 3: Of course, still no one had yet to fully suspect
Speaker 3: Mary Beth, not even her own husband, and just a
Speaker 3: few days later, Marybeth was back at the hospital holding
Speaker 3: a brain dead Jonathan on March twenty fourth, nineteen eighty
Speaker 3: and even with Jonathan being cleared, that didn't stop healthcare
Speaker 3: and law enforcement officials from speculating. The sheer number of
Speaker 3: deaths alone was enough for anyone to be suspicious of.
Speaker 3: But then a pattern seemed to emerge. It was noted
Speaker 3: that most of the children died in the fall, winter
Speaker 3: and early spring months, while two were killed on holidays.
Speaker 3: These sparks some interest and could suggest that depression played
Speaker 3: a role.
Speaker 1: Again, they were just merely speculating.
Speaker 3: So on March second, nineteen eighty one, Mary Beth brought
Speaker 3: two and a half year old Michael, wrapped in a blanket,
Speaker 3: to the pediatrician's office, claiming that the boy had gone
Speaker 3: to sleep and that she couldn't wake him up.
Speaker 1: The doctors didn't need to.
Speaker 3: Examine the boy for long at all before seeing he
Speaker 3: was clearly dead.
Speaker 1: So now the adopted but.
Speaker 2: Yes, now the adopted child is dead, is.
Speaker 1: Now dead, Mary Beth explained to the police.
Speaker 3: When I went in in the morning to get him
Speaker 3: up and so we could go to the doctor's, he
Speaker 3: was not I mean he's seen. He was responsive to
Speaker 3: a point, but he was very limp, and so on
Speaker 3: and so forth, and so instead of calling an ambulance, Wow,
Speaker 3: this is like verbatim, you know, and so on and
Speaker 3: so forth, and YadA yadda.
Speaker 2: YadA ya ya got her baby's death right.
Speaker 3: I went from our house him in the car, literally
Speaker 3: threw him in the car and went to Saint Clair's
Speaker 3: or I mean I went to doctor Melay's office and
Speaker 3: went in there, and by the time one of the doctors,
Speaker 3: I guess took me, they said he died of viral pneumonia. Okay,
Speaker 3: So now suspicions were even higher, especially since Marybeth brought
Speaker 3: her dead son to the family doctor before emergency, like
Speaker 3: she would have normally done with every other child.
Speaker 1: She took him right to emergency.
Speaker 3: So later an autopsy found traces of pneumonia, but not
Speaker 3: enough to cause death. Since Michael was adopted, the long
Speaker 3: suspected theory that the deaths in the Tinning family had
Speaker 3: a genetic origin was thrown out the window. Something else
Speaker 3: was happening. Only thing was that no one knew exactly
Speaker 3: what it was. So on August twenty second, nineteen eighty five,
Speaker 3: the Tinnings welcome their ninth and last child into their home,
Speaker 3: Tammy Lynn. But just like all of their other children,
Speaker 3: Tammy Lynn was faded to meet her demise sooner or later.
Speaker 3: On December nineteenth, Mary Beth called her next door neighbor,
Speaker 3: Cynthia Walter, who was also a practical nurse, and frantically
Speaker 3: urged her to come over right away. When Cynthia showed
Speaker 3: up to see what the fuss was about. She witnessed
Speaker 3: tammy Lynn lying on a changing table. She testified in
Speaker 3: court the following she wasn't moving, she was purple, and
Speaker 3: I couldn't feel a pulse or respiration. She was not breathing.
Speaker 3: Walter tried to figure out exactly what was wrong, but
Speaker 3: there was nothing obvious that she could put her finger on. Meanwhile,
Speaker 3: m MS showed up and rushed Tammy Lynn to the hospital,
Speaker 3: and when Cynthia asked Mary Beth what happened, she said
Speaker 3: that the little girl was tangled in the blanket.
Speaker 1: That's like I think.
Speaker 3: She said that on four of them, at least for sure,
Speaker 3: tangled in the blanket. At the emergency room, the baby
Speaker 3: was pronounced dead. There was no cause of death appearance
Speaker 3: to the emergency room staff, but since they were all
Speaker 3: too familiar with the Tanning family history, Mary Beth was
Speaker 3: suspect number one. After all, each and every one of
Speaker 3: these children have died under her watch.
Speaker 2: Your baby dies tangled in a blanket, the first one.
Speaker 2: Let's just say yeah, and it continue putting. Now, let's
Speaker 2: say this happens now to a second one. You keep
Speaker 2: supers in that crib.
Speaker 1: No, I am done with the blankets.
Speaker 2: I am super fucking paranoid. Yes, when all these children
Speaker 2: pass away and I'm like, I'm on alert and I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna put another.
Speaker 3: I would even be sleep eat all the oh you
Speaker 3: know mother instincts of just being on red alert.
Speaker 1: Right, you know? Seven?
Speaker 2: Yeah, my own for my one child, I had, thank
Speaker 2: you how many you run in and make sure they're
Speaker 2: breathing and make you know what I mean, like, oh
Speaker 2: my gosh.
Speaker 3: Yeah, when Brooke. I remember when Brooke flipped over, the
Speaker 3: first time, I was.
Speaker 1: Like, what's happened? You know? Are you okay?
Speaker 3: Even though she's like I can't remember how old they
Speaker 3: are by six, seven months by then a little bit.
Speaker 3: But it's just every bit of movement is you're just
Speaker 3: always on red alert.
Speaker 1: You're always on red alert.
Speaker 3: And she's just she's not even acting in a way
Speaker 3: that has any like real I don't even know if
Speaker 3: this is like a munch housing by proxy. It's not
Speaker 3: like she I mean, she's a quiet woman. It's not
Speaker 3: like she's getting attention and fawning over this attention she's getting.
Speaker 3: It sounds like people are whispering heavily. But yeah, and
Speaker 3: as long as they just keep whispering and not stopping her.
Speaker 3: She's okay with it. So there was a couple of
Speaker 3: other weird things that happened after tammy Lynne's death. When
Speaker 3: Cynthia visited the Tinning home the next morning to check
Speaker 3: on mary Beth and see she needed anything, she was
Speaker 3: met with not someone who she assumed would be heavily grieving,
Speaker 3: but Joe and mary Beth just casually sitting at the
Speaker 3: kitchen table and eating breakfast as if it was just.
Speaker 1: Another normal day. What the fuck is that? Oh my goodness.
Speaker 3: Then, after Tammulan's funeral, mary Beth had invited people over
Speaker 3: her house for a brunch. While there, she was reportedly smiling,
Speaker 3: eating and talking with everyone there. She seemed completely unbothered,
Speaker 3: not to mention. Friends and family claims she never talked
Speaker 3: about the death, and it truly did seem as if
Speaker 3: she didn't give a shit. It was just a social event.
Speaker 1: You know, people over. Yeah, yeah, exam, how are you like, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: The complete obtuseness of there's no real motherly reactions anywhere here.
Speaker 3: An autopsy failed to provide a valid medical rea and
Speaker 3: for Sammilyn's death, and as a result, her devise was
Speaker 3: listed as SIDS. So this was just crazy and cops
Speaker 3: knew it. Police investigators from several departments all got together
Speaker 3: to talk about the Tending family mystery and what they
Speaker 3: had so far. They went over every piece of evidence
Speaker 3: they had, autopsies, medical reports, statements, and anything that could
Speaker 3: be re examined and studied. However, even with fourteen years
Speaker 3: of paperwork, they knew that a successful prosecution still couldn't
Speaker 3: take place without additional evidence, and it was time to
Speaker 3: talk to mary Beth again. And on the afternoon of
Speaker 3: February fourth, nineteen eighty six, Schenectady Police detective Bob Einfield
Speaker 3: and State Police investigator Joseph Carris went to Mariabeth's home
Speaker 3: to ask her to come down to the police headquarters
Speaker 3: for questioning. Mary Beth didn't have to go with them,
Speaker 3: as she wasn't under arrest at the time, but she did.
Speaker 3: Later she would claim that she felt forced to go
Speaker 3: with the police. Once she had arrived at the Loudonville
Speaker 3: State Police building, she was advised of the miranda warning. Nevertheless,
Speaker 3: she agreed to talk with investigators now.
Speaker 1: During the trial, she denied ever.
Speaker 3: Being read these warnings and her rights and claimed that
Speaker 3: the police intimidated her. When talking with investigators, she spoke
Speaker 3: about her childhood and the town she grew up in.
Speaker 3: She also explained that she grieved over the deaths of
Speaker 3: each of her children, which she swore she didn't play
Speaker 3: any role in. She said that she chalked them up
Speaker 3: either dying from SIDS or a genetic issue, the same
Speaker 3: bullshit she's.
Speaker 2: Been you know, couting for fourteen years, thank you.
Speaker 3: And as the death of tammy Lynne, mary Beth told
Speaker 3: her version of events. She claimed that on the night
Speaker 3: of December nineteenth, nineteen eighty five, she put her daughter
Speaker 3: to sleep in her crib, just as she normally would,
Speaker 3: and she said tammy Lynn was crying a lot that night,
Speaker 3: which annoyed her because it made her feel like an
Speaker 3: unfit mother. She continued to watch television by herself, and
Speaker 3: when she went back to check on tammy Lynn, that's
Speaker 3: when mary Beth realized she wasn't breathing, and that's when
Speaker 3: she picked up the baby in a desperate attempt to
Speaker 3: bring her back to life, but nothing seemed to be working.
Speaker 1: So she woke up her husband and then called for
Speaker 1: an ambulance. I just want to pause here and be
Speaker 1: a bitch.
Speaker 3: Okay, so the stopping breathing, like did I just don't understand,
Speaker 3: like you're not learning CPR?
Speaker 1: Are you learning CPR? I mean you can anyone can
Speaker 1: say that they can do it.
Speaker 2: But true, that's true. You're right, Like, and I was thinking,
Speaker 2: why are you still having more children?
Speaker 1: Like with this yes?
Speaker 2: If I think okay, And I'm really not trying to
Speaker 2: be a bit like right now, I'm trying to think,
Speaker 2: like what would I do?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 2: Yes, like maybe I have this desperate need, like you know,
Speaker 2: I really really want to be a mom, and you
Speaker 2: know I love children. I want to have this big family. Okay,
Speaker 2: I've had how many kids? Now eight? And I've adopted
Speaker 2: one and all eight biological children along with my adoptive
Speaker 2: child now has died. Do I continue to still have
Speaker 2: more children? Like I can't believe she made it to eight?
Speaker 2: I mean I can considering the shore. But in a
Speaker 2: logical world, if I really truly thought that I had
Speaker 2: a genetic that my husband deny, like for whatever the
Speaker 2: weird gene mix is when we have children, we have
Speaker 2: these children that either die from you know, natural causes,
Speaker 2: or they die from kids or whatever, Like maybe we
Speaker 2: should shouldn't have any kids.
Speaker 3: Maybe exactly. And I truly had no hand in that
Speaker 3: my children's end of life. Yes, I truly had no hand.
Speaker 3: But then you know she they had adopted son. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and so they're blows every bit. I mean everything about
Speaker 3: it was tissue paper thin.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I just I'm blown away that it takes
Speaker 2: fucking nine children for the police to be like hmm, exactly,
Speaker 2: It's like something's wrong, Like, dude, I just this story.
Speaker 1: It's just lazy to me.
Speaker 3: That is like think you know that your police you
Speaker 3: know the darkness of men's hearts.
Speaker 1: And I'm like acting like this is Mayberry?
Speaker 2: You know? Is it because these are like nice white
Speaker 2: people out in the suburbs, Like I just know what
Speaker 2: the culture is in the nine seventies and early eighties,
Speaker 2: whatever it is? Is it? Is it? Like you know,
Speaker 2: they're just I don't know Schenectady. Is it an affluent area?
Speaker 2: Like I'm thinking, is it this is it? You know,
Speaker 2: it's upstate New York somewhere, and is it just you know,
Speaker 2: these are these are you know, lovely people and whatever?
Speaker 2: Like is that why no one's giving a ship? So
Speaker 2: I don't understand how can you we're almost in the
Speaker 2: double digits. I mean, yeah, a lot of children. These
Speaker 2: are babies.
Speaker 1: These are babies.
Speaker 2: These are babies, like I think the oldest may have
Speaker 2: been Barbara, like Barbara, Yeah, she was four and a half,
Speaker 2: so she was older. Yeah. All the rest are like
Speaker 2: infants months old, like not even like a year old.
Speaker 2: They don't even make it six months.
Speaker 3: No, exactly, very very short lives and no flags. I mean, oh,
Speaker 3: maybe they're talking after number seven. Really you're just talking.
Speaker 2: Okay, We're just it's fucking blowing my mind.
Speaker 3: It is this, even the tying frame. I'm not even
Speaker 3: giving them a pass on the decade or the year.
Speaker 3: I don't give a shit now. Yeah, so police they
Speaker 3: didn't believe her story. The worst part about it was
Speaker 3: that her version of what went down was really all
Speaker 3: they had to go on.
Speaker 1: So there was no other.
Speaker 3: Witness and no one to challenge her with respect to
Speaker 3: what was true and what was a blatant line.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So the interview went on for hours, and investigators made
Speaker 3: sure to touch upon the deaths of each child. Finally,
Speaker 3: after several hours of relentless questioning, Mary Beth finally broke.
Speaker 3: I did not do anything to Jennifer, Joseph, Barbara, Michael,
Speaker 3: Mary Francis, Jonathan. She said to Barnes and Caris, I
Speaker 3: did not do anything to Jennifer, Joseph, Barbara, Michael, Mary Francis, Jonathan.
Speaker 3: She said to Barnes and Caris, just these three, Timothy, Nathan,
Speaker 3: and Tammy. I smothered them each with a pillow because
Speaker 3: I'm not a good mother. I'm not a good mother
Speaker 3: because of the other children.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, yeah, I'm following you.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: During the interrogation, police called her husband, Joe, down to
Speaker 3: the station. When Mary Beth was allowed to meet with him,
Speaker 3: Joe told her to just tell the truth. Later in court,
Speaker 3: Joe talked of their brief conversation and said that Mary
Speaker 3: Beth admitted to him the murders. Mary Beth said, I
Speaker 3: killed Tammy very low. She had to repeat it. I
Speaker 3: had withdrawn into myself. He said, I was hearing, but
Speaker 3: I wasn't reacting. A stenographer was called in by police
Speaker 3: and a thirty six page statement was composed documenting Mary
Speaker 3: Beth's entire interrogation by investigators, and in it, she admitted
Speaker 3: to suffocating three children, but continued to deny having harmed
Speaker 3: any of the other children. She insisted that on the
Speaker 3: night of Tammy Lynn's death, she was sleeping on the
Speaker 3: living room couch, and this is what she told police there.
Speaker 3: I was about to doze off when Tammy woke up
Speaker 3: and started to cry. I got up and went to
Speaker 3: her crib and tried to do something with her to
Speaker 3: get her to stop crying.
Speaker 1: I finally she used.
Speaker 3: The pillow from my bed to put it over her head.
Speaker 3: I held it until she stopped crying. She said she
Speaker 3: took the same pillow and put it on the couch
Speaker 3: to give the illusion that she had been sleeping. I
Speaker 3: screamed for Joe to wake up. I told Joe Tammy
Speaker 3: wasn't breathing. I did do CPR, stupid as it sounds,
Speaker 3: but I knew that she wasn't alive anymore. And when
Speaker 3: she asked why she had killed Tammy, Mary Beth said
Speaker 3: because she was always crying and I couldn't do anything right.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: She was later arrested and charged with the murder of
Speaker 3: Tammy Lynn, and Mary Beth's murder trial began in Schenectady
Speaker 3: County Court on June twenty second, nineteen eighty seven, and
Speaker 3: after a six week trial, the jury deliberated almost twenty
Speaker 3: hours over a three day period. On July seventeenth, nineteen
Speaker 3: eighty seven, the forty four year old Mary Beth was
Speaker 3: found guilty of murder in the second degree and the
Speaker 3: death of her daughter, Tammy Lynn a depraved indifference to
Speaker 3: human life.
Speaker 1: So Mary Beth.
Speaker 3: She received a sentence of twenty years to life in prison,
Speaker 3: and she was taken to the Bedford Hills Correctional Facility
Speaker 3: for women, and she attempted to appeal on the grounds
Speaker 3: that her confession was given under duress, but she was denied.
Speaker 3: Her attempts at parole began in two thousand and seven,
Speaker 3: and she was denied time and time again for having
Speaker 3: and or showing no remorse. In two thousand and seven,
Speaker 3: she said, I have to be honest, and the only
Speaker 3: thing that I can tell you is that I know
Speaker 3: that my daughter is dead. I live with it every day.
Speaker 3: I have no recollection and I can't believe that I
Speaker 3: harmed her. I can't say any more than that.
Speaker 1: Denied.
Speaker 3: In January of two thousand and nine, she told the
Speaker 3: parole board the following I was going through a bad time.
Speaker 3: The parole board said. She was superficial at best.
Speaker 2: Denied it was going through a bad time.
Speaker 1: I was just going through a bad time. I was
Speaker 1: just having a nine bad times.
Speaker 3: In January twenty eleven, she said that at this parole hearing,
Speaker 3: after the deaths of my other children, I just lost it.
Speaker 1: I became a damaged, worthless piece of person.
Speaker 3: And when my daughter was young, in my state of
Speaker 3: mind at that time, I just believed that she was going.
Speaker 1: To die also, so I just did it. Denied.
Speaker 3: In twenty thirteen, she said, it's just I can't remember.
Speaker 3: I mean, I know I did it, but I can't
Speaker 3: tell you why. There's no reason. In February twenty fifteen
Speaker 3: and January of twenty seventeen, she was denied a fifth
Speaker 3: and sixth time, still for not showing any remorse or
Speaker 3: under any understanding or remorse for taking her child's life. However,
Speaker 3: a seventy six year old Mary Beth was eventually released
Speaker 3: on parole on August twenty first, twenty eighteen, after having
Speaker 3: served thirty one years. Her husband Joseph, who supported her
Speaker 3: and believed in her innocence the entire time, was waiting
Speaker 3: for her.
Speaker 2: Are you the fucking kidding me?
Speaker 1: Now?
Speaker 3: The Stipulations surrounding her release are that she will be
Speaker 3: on parole for the rest of her life, she has
Speaker 3: a curfew, and she has to attend domestic violence counseling.
Speaker 3: Now I googled her, you know, I have her right here.
Speaker 3: She is eighty two years old. She's still still here. Yeah, somewhere,
Speaker 3: probably New York, I would imagine.
Speaker 1: But unbelievable.
Speaker 2: This is crazy And what the fuck is up with Joseph.
Speaker 3: Like he has to know that he was she tried
Speaker 3: to kill him too. The barbituates you knew the police
Speaker 3: told you she tried to kill you, but he also
Speaker 3: stood by and believed all of his kids had died
Speaker 3: in the way she swore by or just said. And
Speaker 3: that is a very spineless and fucked up thing to do.
Speaker 2: Yeah, right, I don't.
Speaker 1: That's just allowing shit to happen.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's just not not being like fully present in
Speaker 2: what's going on in your own life.
Speaker 3: I think, like, yeah, it's not you know, you're not
Speaker 3: taking account of Billy, You're not.
Speaker 1: What are you here for?
Speaker 2: I just the story is fucking crazy.
Speaker 3: Like I the number of children, and I get it,
Speaker 3: Like you said the seventies, you know you I could
Speaker 3: go up to seven eleven with a note I wrote
Speaker 3: for a pack of cigarettes for my mother that makes
Speaker 3: not smoke.
Speaker 2: It was the wild wild West in the really was ross,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean? I just and so was
Speaker 2: the rest of the world, Like I just don't know,
Speaker 2: wonder the fucking serial killers and shit they didn't find
Speaker 2: the Zodiac killer and shit like that, Like that's because
Speaker 2: it's just people were naive. I don't know, And I mean,
Speaker 2: is it the naivete?
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 3: I think it's like people don't acknowledge their dark side.
Speaker 3: You gotta acknowledge your dark side because guess what, that
Speaker 3: dark side is also in every fucking body else. So
Speaker 3: you don't think, oh, no, you know peachy roses and sunglasses. No,
Speaker 3: I mean, enjoy it while it's there, but know that
Speaker 3: this motherfucker might.
Speaker 1: Have some deviant shit thought.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and all think the fact like she killed her
Speaker 2: three kids because she was a bad mom because her
Speaker 2: other six kids died. How does that make sense? How
Speaker 2: are you a bad mom that your kids died from
Speaker 2: genetic things or whatever? And then you're like, oh, I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna knock off my next three kids because I'm.
Speaker 1: A bad mom.
Speaker 2: No, you did it because you are a bad mom,
Speaker 2: and you killed them all because you are a bad mom. Yes,
Speaker 2: started to cry and you didn't want to hear it,
Speaker 2: and so your fucking smothered nine children.
Speaker 3: Yeah you're six month old. Made you feel like a
Speaker 3: bad mom. That sounds like a narcissistic fucking personality.
Speaker 2: Bullshit, And who hasn't had a baby? Cry?
Speaker 1: My god?
Speaker 2: Crazy?
Speaker 1: I mean, like Brooklyn was so collicky. I remember the same.
Speaker 1: I was like I would look in her eyes on
Speaker 1: I'm like, how come you're not connecting?
Speaker 3: Yeah, barely, you know, And she's like, yeah, probably because
Speaker 3: I can't talk.
Speaker 1: I'm in engrueling gas pain from this iron rich milk.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: I can't remember you calling your like she will not
Speaker 2: stop crying. I was so bad for you because I
Speaker 2: was just like, oh.
Speaker 3: I know and earth while I was like total perfect baby.
Speaker 2: All my child, never, she was never colicky, she slept well,
Speaker 2: like she just she was a great baby. I mean
Speaker 2: she did every moments obviously, you know, you get sick
Speaker 2: and whatever. But I felt so bad for you because
Speaker 2: it was such a nightmare, Like I just you didn't
Speaker 2: fucking smother your baby because now you just, you know, just.
Speaker 3: Keep holding and rocking and shaking and taking it for
Speaker 3: a ride.
Speaker 2: And and you were at the fucking end of your rope.
Speaker 2: I could hear you know what I mean? Please God, please.
Speaker 3: I showered last. I don't remember, I mean, this, fucking lady.
Speaker 3: And then it's unbelievable, the denial. And yeah, for sure
Speaker 3: it's a mental thing. But at the same time it
Speaker 3: bothers me. You know when someone does horrific things and
Speaker 3: then it's like, oh, I wasn't read my rights, I
Speaker 3: wasn't done it.
Speaker 2: Fuck you, Okay, your rights.
Speaker 3: You should be thankful you live in a country where
Speaker 3: you have Miranda.
Speaker 2: Rights exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: So, but yes, that is the story, uh the serial
Speaker 3: killer mother Mary Bating.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you. This is crazy. I would just like
Speaker 2: to remind everyone before we go to hit the subscriber
Speaker 2: follow button.
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Speaker 1: Nice.
Speaker 2: Oh, we would just like there. Let everyone know that.
Speaker 2: I think that's all the business, relatively.
Speaker 1: Oh the business.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so until our next episode.
Speaker 3: Yes, tany, you take care of yourself and our listeners.
Speaker 3: You take care of yourselves. We love you, We love you,
Speaker 3: and not much.
Speaker 1: See you next time, see you next time.
Speaker 2: Bye bye mm hmm