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<v Speaker 1>Lippmann then began to draft the propaganda for the Allies

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<v Speaker 1>during World War One. He thus assisted Woodrow Wilson in

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<v Speaker 1>drawing up the fourteen points. Who did Woodrow Wilson work

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<v Speaker 1>for the bankers? Read Colonel House, Colonel Edwin Mandel House,

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<v Speaker 1>Woodrow Wilson, agent of the Banking League. At the same time,

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<v Speaker 1>the budding science of Watsonian behaviorism provided Walter Lippmann with

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<v Speaker 1>the principles to control and manipulate society. Now we enter

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<v Speaker 1>the pre Burnet's stuff. Okay, this gets into Berne's manipulating

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<v Speaker 1>public opinion. This is when Lippmann writes his landmark book

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<v Speaker 1>Public Opinion. In nineteen twenty two, Lippmann claimed that psychologists

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<v Speaker 1>had discovered the conditioned response behavior response stimulus response emotion

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<v Speaker 1>is not attached to any idea per se. So now,

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<v Speaker 1>in other words, man will just be treated as a

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<v Speaker 1>beast that can be controlled by a stimulus response enter

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<v Speaker 1>in Skinner, be of Skinner and the research of Pavlov.

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<v Speaker 1>All of these guys. Research is being used by these

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<v Speaker 1>people stimulus response. Stimulus response.

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<v Speaker 2>Now enters in.

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<v Speaker 1>Psychoanalysis and Freud the utilization of sexual imagery in advertising.

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<v Speaker 2>The utilization of.

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<v Speaker 1>Stimulus response to manipulate emotions, the utilization of Freudian.

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<v Speaker 2>Psychoanalysis.

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<v Speaker 1>All of this begins to be utilized at the behest,

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<v Speaker 1>not just of psychological warfare for military purposes, but application

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<v Speaker 1>to the domestic population through admin through TV, through mass media.

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<v Speaker 2>Thus we see Freudian principles.

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<v Speaker 1>We see all of these degenerate Skinnarian Pavlovian behaviorists Watsonian

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<v Speaker 1>principles adopted, and the idea is, utilize these tricks to

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<v Speaker 1>sell people on the new American ideology. We can thus

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<v Speaker 1>utilize all these psyops tricks to debase the people to

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<v Speaker 1>control their perception. Now we can reorient their whole perception

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<v Speaker 1>of life, of the world, of religion, the church, America, Americanism.

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<v Speaker 1>In other words, they had mastered social engineering by this

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<v Speaker 1>time culture creation, creating toxic culture. Thus, by the time

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<v Speaker 1>that he had set up Time Magazine and got it going,

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<v Speaker 1>and by the time it became like the pre eminent

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<v Speaker 1>tool of telling America what America is and how to

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<v Speaker 1>believe in, how to think, Time Magazine basically became an

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<v Speaker 1>empire which was able to control perception through the control

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<v Speaker 1>of information. This allows later on other entities to rise

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<v Speaker 1>to power like the Rand Corporation, other think tanks and

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<v Speaker 1>NGOs which are also able to now contribute to the

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<v Speaker 1>steering of the American ideology, redefining America as the Rank

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<v Speaker 1>Corporation does, from being a production economy to a service economy,

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<v Speaker 1>from creating a production based economy to a consumer coomer.

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<v Speaker 2>Culture consumer.

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<v Speaker 1>All created by Rand Corporation, even to the extent of

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<v Speaker 1>how to convince people that they are atomistic individuals, and

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<v Speaker 1>as an atomistic individual their life could be fulfilled by

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<v Speaker 1>instantaneous pleasure principle being satiated through consumerism. It's all bs

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<v Speaker 1>and it's all a trick, all of it. What does

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<v Speaker 1>alex Obea memory covered Alexabea's Soldiers of Reason History of

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<v Speaker 1>the Rancorporation says, if you reject or disagree with any

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<v Speaker 1>of Americanism, then you reject the disagree with the Rand

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<v Speaker 1>Corporation because the Rand Corporation is who created modern America.

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<v Speaker 2>So you've been sold bullshit. It's not true. It's a lie.

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<v Speaker 1>It's all based on pragmatism, atheism, liberalism, skinarianism, Pablovianism, Watsonianism, materialism,

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<v Speaker 1>and it's all a lie. And they even say it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't matter if it's true or false, because it's used

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<v Speaker 1>to control you. That's what the architects of this bullshit say.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you understand that.

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<v Speaker 1>The new gospel, the new ideology, would be the quote

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<v Speaker 1>great liberal tradition.

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<v Speaker 2>This was something that Henry Loce made up.

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<v Speaker 1>So we got to give an embodiment to a tradition

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<v Speaker 1>so that America can accept what America is, to redefine America,

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<v Speaker 1>not that it wasn't already liberal, but to redefine it

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<v Speaker 1>in such a way that it could be used as

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<v Speaker 1>an engine of the wasp, skull and bones establishment.

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<v Speaker 2>What does he come up with? The liberal tradition? What

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<v Speaker 2>is this? Let's let Henry Loose himself explain what this is.

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<v Speaker 1>Lu said, America is the supreme embodiment of the tradition.

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<v Speaker 1>Garibaldi wrote that Abraham Lincoln spoke of our country as

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<v Speaker 1>the apostle of liberty, the harbinger of progress. Note the

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<v Speaker 1>religious language, the apostle of liberty.

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<v Speaker 2>This is loose.

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<v Speaker 1>Still, America is the great and magnetic hope and example

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<v Speaker 1>for the world. It will draw to herself all who

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<v Speaker 1>wish to make Europe at last beautiful and free, the

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<v Speaker 1>last great effort being made to establish the liberal tradition

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<v Speaker 1>that is political freedom, equality justice, freedom of thought, freedom

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<v Speaker 1>of opinion, common decency, the rights of men and women.

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<v Speaker 1>Excuse me, common decency, the rights of men and men.

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<v Speaker 1>It is a very close battle. The odds are as

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<v Speaker 1>far as we can see, about fifty to fifty. So

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<v Speaker 1>he's saying this, I guess right before like World War two. Right,

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<v Speaker 1>So basically it's just saying that America is the only

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<v Speaker 1>hope for the world. The American mythos is French revolutionary

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<v Speaker 1>enlightenment BS.

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<v Speaker 2>Generic things. Freedom of.

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<v Speaker 1>Is freedom of political freedom, freedom of ideas, equal justice,

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<v Speaker 1>freedom of opinion, common decency.

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<v Speaker 2>What are you talking about? Right?

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<v Speaker 1>But again, remember from the propaganda standpoint, one of the

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<v Speaker 1>basic rules of.

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<v Speaker 2>Propaganda is.

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<v Speaker 1>Use the most generic possible slogans because that allows everybody

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<v Speaker 1>to interpret the slogans anyway they want.

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<v Speaker 2>Right.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't want to use a lot of high level

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<v Speaker 1>precision in your propaganda.

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<v Speaker 2>Just keep it dumb, dude, because the.

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<v Speaker 1>More generic and catchy it is, the easier it is

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<v Speaker 1>to bring people in because they can read into it

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<v Speaker 1>whatever they want.

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<v Speaker 2>Right. Just think of the social justice.

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<v Speaker 1>Type things, right, same principle here. All the social justice

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<v Speaker 1>stuff is is the latest incarnation of this stuff. Loose

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<v Speaker 1>believe that the United States Constitution is the Liberal tradition.

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<v Speaker 1>As a corollary of his belief in the Constitution, Henry

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<v Speaker 1>Luce believed that business is essentially civilization. Business is life. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>you heard me, business church. You think I'm joking when

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<v Speaker 1>I talk about business church, I'm not joking when I

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<v Speaker 1>talk about I'm saying that the real church is Business

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<v Speaker 1>is mannon so here, through media is one of the

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<v Speaker 1>most powerful men in the world at this time, the

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<v Speaker 1>voice of skull and Bones, the voice of the oss,

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<v Speaker 1>the projector of the four Freedoms to the world, essentially

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<v Speaker 1>saying that Leo the thirteen, in his encyclical condemning the

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<v Speaker 1>Enlightenment principles, has to go away. The new freedoms that

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<v Speaker 1>must be accepted. Uh, oh, guess what they're the freedoms liberty, equality, fraternity,

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<v Speaker 1>social justice.

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<v Speaker 2>Where have we heard that before? Oh, that's the Masonic freedoms.

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<v Speaker 2>And if he's in.

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<v Speaker 3>Skulling bones, what is skull and bones? Oh, that's Lodge

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<v Speaker 3>three two two. Lodge three two two is the Germanic

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<v Speaker 3>order of skull and Bones. The lodge of skull and

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<v Speaker 3>Bones originates there, which is teaching the four freedoms of freemasonry,

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<v Speaker 3>condemned by Potelar the thirteenth. So notice American Enlightenment Freemasonry

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<v Speaker 3>embodied in the skull and Bones dictum, the four freedoms.

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<v Speaker 3>Henry Loose is oss oss is skull and bones. Henry

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<v Speaker 3>Loos is skull and bones, Skull and bone lodge three

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<v Speaker 3>to two to two. That's masonic. It's not rocket.

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<v Speaker 1>Science we're doing here. It's not that hard to figure out.

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<v Speaker 1>Next we have to talk about we're at two hours.

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<v Speaker 1>But next we have to talk about Halfred mckinder, the

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<v Speaker 1>Heartland Theory, the classic geopolitical analysis, the Milner Group, Rhodes

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<v Speaker 1>Rothschild Milner, the Society of the Elect that's the secret

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<v Speaker 1>society that was set up to create the Anglo American

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<v Speaker 1>Empire establishment. We will go into his chapter on this,

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<v Speaker 1>but basically this is just a chapter summarizing what you

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<v Speaker 1>heard me do on my lectures on If you've not

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<v Speaker 1>heard the quickly Tragian Hope and Anglo American Establishment lectures,

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<v Speaker 1>go listen to those. Subscribe at my site to hear

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<v Speaker 1>all those. But that will be where he goes next

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<v Speaker 1>and he will talk about the birth of the Anglo

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<v Speaker 1>American project prior to World War One with Rawchild, Rhodes Milner,

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<v Speaker 1>the Roundtable groups. This will be the plan not just

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<v Speaker 1>for the waning British imperium, but the packs Americana to

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<v Speaker 1>take over, to be the engine of the Anglo American establishment.

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<v Speaker 1>And yes, the State of Israel will play a role

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<v Speaker 1>in that. Obviously, Remember the British Empire was already a

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<v Speaker 1>world power prior.

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<v Speaker 2>To the establishment of the State of Israel.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, I know about the Balfour Declaration, I know about

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<v Speaker 1>Sykes Pico Treaty.

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<v Speaker 2>I know about all that stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll get to that, but suffice to say that for

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<v Speaker 1>part one, we will end it there because we've covered

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of meat here.

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<v Speaker 2>But I hope you get the point here.

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<v Speaker 1>The point of what we're saying with this is that

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<v Speaker 1>it's not as simple as saying that like the Vatican

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<v Speaker 1>was subverted by Freemasons. Venari's Ault of Indida document shows

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<v Speaker 1>that the Alt of Indida Lodge took over the papacy.

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<v Speaker 2>It's it's more than that.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, there's power players like the Anglo American establishment, the CIA,

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<v Speaker 1>who co opt openly the Roman Catholic Church. We don't

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<v Speaker 1>have to resort to up to obscure Masonic conspiracies. We

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<v Speaker 1>already know what happened, okay, and it's clear in this book. So, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna do this book next. We're gonna we're gonna

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<v Speaker 1>work our way through all of it. Please, if you

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<v Speaker 1>do want to get into it, I recommend the book.

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<v Speaker 1>I know not everybody has time to read an eight

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<v Speaker 1>hundred page book, but definitely, Uh, it's eight hundred pages,

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<v Speaker 1>one thousand plus footnotes. We're gonna be getting into the CFR,

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna be getting into Cold War. We're gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>getting into Russia. We're gonna be getting into radio liberty

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<v Speaker 1>now that's a CIA operation during the Cold War, or

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<v Speaker 1>how it's related to the Callolic Church, spies and high

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<v Speaker 1>places we're gonna get in. I mean, this book is wild.

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna get into Hollywood. There's a whole section of

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<v Speaker 1>this book on Hollywood. So it's bigger than we oftentimes assume,

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<v Speaker 1>and it does the convenient narrative of one bad guy

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<v Speaker 1>is not true, and the trads are just going to

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<v Speaker 1>have to come to grips with that. Or they can

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<v Speaker 1>just continue melting away in their collapsing entity known as

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<v Speaker 1>the Roman Calluy Church if they choose to that's what

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<v Speaker 1>they want to do.

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<v Speaker 2>So I said that we would do also Q and A.

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<v Speaker 1>So I'm in a good mood and I'm enjoying talking

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<v Speaker 1>about this material. And if anybody wants to hop on

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<v Speaker 1>in the discord, feel free to. You can go into

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<v Speaker 1>the discord and ask questions about the material that we

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<v Speaker 1>covered today, theological questions.

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<v Speaker 2>I don't care what you want to talk about.

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<v Speaker 1>If you get too ridiculous, I'll just kick you out.

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<v Speaker 1>So don't waste my time or anybody's time with stupid stuff.

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<v Speaker 1>So let me pull up the discord here as I

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<v Speaker 1>answer the superchats. So we got a few superchats here.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you guys for those superchats. So m curry, we

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<v Speaker 1>explained what wasp was. Ross, thank you for that twenty dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>Nice twenty bucks from old Ross there. I don't know

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<v Speaker 1>who Ross is, but thank you Ross. Is that Ross

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<v Speaker 1>from friends? Thank you Ross from friends? A ten dollars,

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you A. Let's get ten bucks from every letter

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<v Speaker 1>in the alphabet and then we'll be set for this week.

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<v Speaker 1>Compay all the bills. Schopenhauer's bunny. I like that Schopenhower's bunny.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't have a question. I just wanted to support

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<v Speaker 1>you much appreciated. Thank you for that taco three dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>Great information. But do impressions more often now we typically

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<v Speaker 1>kind of divide the streams up, you know, like what

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<v Speaker 1>We're gonna be doing a soprano stream pretty soon, so

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<v Speaker 1>that will be rife with impressions. I'm gonna try to

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<v Speaker 1>impress I present everybody. I've got Polly Good, I've got

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<v Speaker 1>Tony Good, I've got Christopher pretty good.

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<v Speaker 2>Uh.

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<v Speaker 1>I guess that's like the main ones. But yeah, so.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll have a lot of fun with that sopranos analysis

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<v Speaker 2>because that was it was great shows on my favorite shows.

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<v Speaker 2>I loved it. I was happy with the ending. I

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<v Speaker 2>thought it ended really cool.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, So when we do that or when we do

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<v Speaker 1>the more jokey streams, there's a lot more impressions in those.

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<v Speaker 1>So but thank you for that three dollars taco jack

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<v Speaker 1>for three bucks, say is what is the purpose of

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<v Speaker 1>riots and violence? This is a strategy of control Ko.

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<v Speaker 2>So if you read there's.

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<v Speaker 1>A great essay at Global Research by Andrew Marshall, young

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<v Speaker 1>guy around my age, but he wrote a book or

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<v Speaker 1>a long essay called Arc of Crisis, and it's about

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<v Speaker 1>Brazinski's model of control chaos. So if you want to

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<v Speaker 1>understand the purpose of riots and violence, go read Andrew

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<v Speaker 1>Marshall's essay Arc of Crisis about Brazenski. But essentially it

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<v Speaker 1>just serves to propel thesis, antithesis, synthesis. Right, Dorman three sixty,

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<v Speaker 1>you may be right about the subversion of the Latins,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're too mean to debate. Yeah, sure, okay, thank you,

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<v Speaker 1>Dorman three sixty.

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<v Speaker 2>I'll take that. I'm too mean, you know whatever.

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, we just had trads all day hanging out in

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<v Speaker 1>my discord. Nobody got mad. It was perfectly civil. We

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<v Speaker 1>talked for three hours to multiple two least two or

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<v Speaker 1>three different trades. So it's not the case that everybody

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<v Speaker 1>is that I'm mean to everybody.

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<v Speaker 2>All this kind of nonsense. And imagine the people who

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<v Speaker 2>are the.

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<v Speaker 1>Old we're the Church of the Crusaders, We're the crusading Knights.

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<v Speaker 1>And then you turn around and your butt hurt because

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<v Speaker 1>supposedly I'm mean. I thought you were a crusader. Bro

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<v Speaker 1>I thought you're a crusader. You're LARPing as a knight,

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<v Speaker 1>but you're mad because I'm mean.

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<v Speaker 2>All right, So there's a super chat. So we got

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<v Speaker 2>four hundred people. Welcome everybody.

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<v Speaker 1>Thank you for those and feel free to uh yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>you're gonna like the Paul impression. It's it's gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>on point. But we'll save that for the soprano string

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<v Speaker 1>that Jamie and I will do. So come to the

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<v Speaker 1>general chat in the discord if you want to let

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<v Speaker 1>me add the discord here. We'll probably get an influx

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<v Speaker 1>of lunatics. Not everybody. I love you guys, you're not

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<v Speaker 1>a lunatics, but I'm sure some of you guys are lunatics.

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<v Speaker 2>So we'll have to vet the lunatics out of here.

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<v Speaker 2>So get the discord link ready and then I'll open

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<v Speaker 2>up discord here and we can do a Q and a.

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<v Speaker 4>M h.

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<v Speaker 5>M hmm.

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<v Speaker 2>All right. Gredo are you there? Yes, I am Grado.

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<v Speaker 2>He's a good friend from Australia.

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<v Speaker 6>I'm here to ask ask the questions and getting them.

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<v Speaker 7>Tell you yeah.

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<v Speaker 1>Here, he's here to do his best Mail Gibson impression.

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<v Speaker 1>He's doing Meil Gibson, Meil Gibson impassinating Grido.

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<v Speaker 5>If I do it Mel Gibson impersonation, they'll shut down

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<v Speaker 5>the discord and ban you from YouTube.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, Well, in that case, is there anybody who wants

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<v Speaker 1>to do Q and A. If not, we don't have to.

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<v Speaker 1>But if there is, is there anybody.

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<v Speaker 7>Uh kind of.

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<v Speaker 2>Have a few questions?

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<v Speaker 6>Okay, j Ashtown, Yes you can ask them.

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<v Speaker 8>Okay, Yeah, you were talking about natural law and like

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<v Speaker 8>something and not really too familiar with the issue. If

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<v Speaker 8>you could just swing quickly what's wrong exactly with natural.

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<v Speaker 6>Raw and what you're like?

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<v Speaker 8>The Orthodox position is that that it'd be that would

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<v Speaker 8>be dandy, all right.

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<v Speaker 1>So the easiest best explanation for this is I'm gonna

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<v Speaker 1>tell you too.

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<v Speaker 5>Now.

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<v Speaker 1>I've got it linked at my website. There's there's one chapter.

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<v Speaker 1>It's an essay called uh Knowledge. It's called the Knowledge

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<v Speaker 1>the Theory of Knowledge of Saint Isaac the Syrian. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>and this is an essay that is in this excellent book.

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<v Speaker 1>I recommend the whole book of Orthodox Faith in Life

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<v Speaker 1>in Christ by Saint Justin Popovich, because he not only

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<v Speaker 1>does he critique the papacy and the humanism of the papacy.

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<v Speaker 2>But he has a whole.

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<v Speaker 1>Chapter called the Theory of Knowledge of Isaac the Syrian,

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<v Speaker 1>and Isaac the Syrian, who is obviously a saint the

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<v Speaker 1>Orthodox Church, has the same epistemology as Saint Maximus. So

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<v Speaker 1>the doctrine is based on the doctrine of the Logi.

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<v Speaker 2>And so what he's going to do in this.

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<v Speaker 1>Chapter is talk about how as Orthodox we don't have

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<v Speaker 1>the tonistic doctrine of natural theology because Maximus doesn't teach

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<v Speaker 1>natural theology. So what we're saying here is not that

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<v Speaker 1>there's no such thing as nature. It's not that nature

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't teach us God. It's that nature doesn't teach us

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<v Speaker 1>generic theism. Nature teaches us Christ. And no one who

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<v Speaker 1>believes in natural theology believes that nature teaches Jesus because

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<v Speaker 1>Jesus the Trinity. All that stuff in Tomism is an afterthought.

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<v Speaker 1>That's something that you prove after you've proven and stacked

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<v Speaker 1>up this stuff of natural theology.

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<v Speaker 2>So what is natural theology?

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<v Speaker 1>Natural theology is autonomous man reasoning an in a sphere

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<v Speaker 1>apart from revelation. According to Fetus at ratio of John

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<v Speaker 1>Paul the I, it's not based on revelation. It makes

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<v Speaker 1>no reference to reveal theology. It's man reasoning only from

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<v Speaker 1>created mental principles about the world.

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<v Speaker 2>So we're gonna.

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<v Speaker 1>Reason about the external world, causation, te loos, purpose, the

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<v Speaker 1>beginning of the world, et cetera, how it came to be.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's all a bunch of nonsense. Why because it

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<v Speaker 1>starts with the peripatetic axiom that nothing is in the

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<v Speaker 1>intellect that's not first in the senses. Okay, that no

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<v Speaker 1>one can defend that position anymore, because at the time

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<v Speaker 1>of the Enlightenment it gets critiqued into devastation, it gets destroyed.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, how can I prove all this very easily?

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<v Speaker 1>Can you interpret the world as it is right now

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<v Speaker 1>without making reference to the fall? Now, if you believe

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<v Speaker 1>in natural theology, yes, you can derive all these principles

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<v Speaker 1>about the operation of the natural world merely.

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<v Speaker 2>By sense data, without any reference to revelation. So but

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<v Speaker 2>wait a minute.

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<v Speaker 1>When I do that and I look out at the world,

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<v Speaker 1>I notice there's things like death and decay, predator and prey.

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<v Speaker 1>Is the predator prey slash death feature of the world natural? Now,

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<v Speaker 1>most Thomas are probably going to say something like, yes,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a natural process that occurs in relationship to death.

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<v Speaker 2>Now, well, wait a minute, Paul says, death is the enemy.

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<v Speaker 1>Death entered because of the fall. So you can't interpret

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<v Speaker 1>the world as it is right now without the doctrine

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<v Speaker 1>of revelation, namely that it was created and that the

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<v Speaker 1>reason that the world is in the state that it

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<v Speaker 1>is right now is because of the fall. So the predator, prey,

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<v Speaker 1>death aspect of the world is not natural. Thus, Saint

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<v Speaker 1>Maximus can say, grace and virtue are the most natural

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<v Speaker 1>things to man. There's nothing more natural to man than grace.

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<v Speaker 1>So we don't have this nature grace dichotomy that they have.

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<v Speaker 1>We don't have this natural theology revealed theology type of system.

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<v Speaker 1>The natural world is the same content as revealed theology.

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<v Speaker 1>It's just two different modes. So what's the meaning of

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<v Speaker 1>scripture the logi of Christ. What's the meaning of the

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<v Speaker 1>natural world the logi of Christ? How do they differ?

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<v Speaker 1>It's two different modes or mediums or methods. So the

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<v Speaker 1>Bible is a bunch of written texts about Jesus. Ultimately,

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<v Speaker 1>the natural world is a bunch of animals and sticks

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<v Speaker 1>and birds and stones about Jesus. That's what Maximus teaches.

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<v Speaker 1>That's the whole point of the Logi doctrine. That's the

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<v Speaker 1>whole point of this chapter about the Logi doctrine, that

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<v Speaker 1>it's not natural theology from Tunism. Does that make sense?

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<v Speaker 9>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 10>No, I think I get a little bit of that.

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<v Speaker 1>So the very first chapter of Experience of God by

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<v Speaker 1>stun Eloy, he starts his systematic theology with this what

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<v Speaker 1>I'm saying for the Orthodox there is no distinction between

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<v Speaker 1>supernatural grace and nature per se. There is a distinction,

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<v Speaker 1>but not a distinction the way that the Roman Catholics

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<v Speaker 1>say it.

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<v Speaker 2>We don't believe in natural theology. He says, it's.

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<v Speaker 1>More appropriate to call what we believe in natural revelation.

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<v Speaker 1>And he says, how is that the case?

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<v Speaker 2>Where does he go to?

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<v Speaker 1>First Maximus? The first thing he appeals to is Maximus

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<v Speaker 1>and the Logi. Because nature is not an uninterpreted brute

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<v Speaker 1>fact that comes to you without any theory. Nature is

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<v Speaker 1>what the Logos created it to be. Therefore, it can

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<v Speaker 1>only be interpreted and understood according to its logie in Christ.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's impossible to believe in natural theology. Hence wistan

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<v Speaker 1>Neela correctly calls it natural revelation. I mean, another way

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<v Speaker 1>I can prove this is that if you believe in

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<v Speaker 1>natural theology, then you literally believe you literally believe that.

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<v Speaker 1>In Romans One, when Paul talks about the knowledge of

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<v Speaker 1>God that all men possess, they literally execute that as

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<v Speaker 1>Aristotelian syllogisms. No, Paul is not talking about Aristotelian syllogisms

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<v Speaker 1>and Romans one, he's talking about the news. The heart

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<v Speaker 1>of man is guilty because all men know in their

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<v Speaker 1>hearts that there's one true God. Has nothing to do

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<v Speaker 1>with Aristotle syllogisms. And so the whole tonistic exegesis of

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<v Speaker 1>what Romans one is talking about is absurd.

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<v Speaker 2>Thank you, j Sorry, I was gonna make it a question.

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<v Speaker 5>How do we define all hard was going to say, Jay,

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<v Speaker 5>how do we define.

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<v Speaker 1>God's omnipotence and orthodoxy so that the ability to cause

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<v Speaker 1>to find persons is us not held by all the

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<v Speaker 1>members of the Trinity.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, that's a good question.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So somebody might say sometimes Thomas say this, They say.

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<v Speaker 2>Every or even I've even heard Muslims make this argument.

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<v Speaker 1>They'll say that every person in the Trinity has to

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<v Speaker 1>have everything in common or one of them would lack. So,

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<v Speaker 1>for example, if we say that the Father alone is

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<v Speaker 1>the cause of the Godhead, then somehow the Son and

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<v Speaker 1>the Spirit would be subordinated because they lack the power

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<v Speaker 1>of causing. Well, the first thing that we would say

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<v Speaker 1>is that, if you read the compendotionans, the power of

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<v Speaker 1>causing is not a it's what we call a hypostatic property.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's not a natural property. So anything that we're

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<v Speaker 1>going to say is a power common to the person's

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<v Speaker 1>is an attribute or a power that's proper.

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<v Speaker 2>To the divine nature.

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<v Speaker 1>So the power to create the world, the power to

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<v Speaker 1>show divine justice, divine mercy, divine love, those are all

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<v Speaker 1>common to the Godhead, and so they're therefore properties or

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<v Speaker 1>attributes that are natural to God. But hyposthetic properties are

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<v Speaker 1>different because they're the only properties that we believe as

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<v Speaker 1>Orthodox from the Cappadocians that distinguish the person's. So, what

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<v Speaker 1>is the father's unique hypostatic property that makes him alone

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<v Speaker 1>who he is such that it can't be attributed to

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<v Speaker 1>any other person. For us, it's cause that is the

420
00:29:09.920 --> 00:29:13.200
<v Speaker 1>father's unique property. So the words that the church fathers

421
00:29:13.279 --> 00:29:15.039
<v Speaker 1>use to describe the person.

422
00:29:14.759 --> 00:29:15.279
<v Speaker 2>Of the Father.

423
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:19.279
<v Speaker 1>That's confirmed at the First Ecumenical Council, and the Kappadocian

424
00:29:19.319 --> 00:29:25.799
<v Speaker 1>and Athanasian theology is ark an ark a, fount of godhead,

425
00:29:26.240 --> 00:29:27.880
<v Speaker 1>unoriginate origin.

426
00:29:29.960 --> 00:29:35.599
<v Speaker 2>Cause. Yeah, I think that's most of them, right.

427
00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:39.680
<v Speaker 1>So those basically sum up who the Father is, and

428
00:29:39.720 --> 00:29:44.319
<v Speaker 1>they're all describing the same single hyposthetic reality. They're not

429
00:29:44.519 --> 00:29:49.640
<v Speaker 1>different attributes of his person. That is his hyposthetic reality.

430
00:29:49.720 --> 00:29:54.160
<v Speaker 1>The Father is the sole origin, the sole cause, the soul, monarchia,

431
00:29:54.359 --> 00:29:58.759
<v Speaker 1>the soul ark the soul anarchia, right, all of those properties.

432
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:00.000
<v Speaker 2>He's autotheos.

433
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:05.319
<v Speaker 1>He alone is auto theeos okay self caused, self existent,

434
00:30:05.920 --> 00:30:09.880
<v Speaker 1>because the son and the Spirit derive their hypostatic existence

435
00:30:10.200 --> 00:30:14.680
<v Speaker 1>from the Father. That's why Nicea, the Niceno constant Apolitan

436
00:30:14.720 --> 00:30:19.519
<v Speaker 1>creed is a Cappadocian in stating the God from God

437
00:30:19.759 --> 00:30:24.119
<v Speaker 1>like from light proposition. That's what all the Cappadocians taught

438
00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:28.279
<v Speaker 1>about the monarchia of the Father. So to be cause,

439
00:30:29.079 --> 00:30:33.559
<v Speaker 1>to be ourk to be found, to be origin, to

440
00:30:33.599 --> 00:30:40.680
<v Speaker 1>be beginning, to be source, to be autotheos, self caused.

441
00:30:41.400 --> 00:30:45.519
<v Speaker 1>Those are all names expressing the same reality.

442
00:30:45.039 --> 00:30:45.799
<v Speaker 2>That is the Father.

443
00:30:46.680 --> 00:30:51.720
<v Speaker 1>Those are all describing who he is. So he cannot

444
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:55.799
<v Speaker 1>share that with anyone else because they would be father.

445
00:30:56.519 --> 00:30:56.759
<v Speaker 2>Right.

446
00:30:56.799 --> 00:31:00.279
<v Speaker 1>So the son can't share any of those properties because

447
00:31:00.279 --> 00:31:03.039
<v Speaker 1>now you have a father son, now you have a diad.

448
00:31:04.039 --> 00:31:09.599
<v Speaker 1>So the power so called of being, the fount rk monarchy,

449
00:31:09.680 --> 00:31:14.039
<v Speaker 1>et cetera, is the Father's hypostatic property. It's not a

450
00:31:14.079 --> 00:31:16.559
<v Speaker 1>property of the Godhead by which one of the other

451
00:31:16.599 --> 00:31:20.440
<v Speaker 1>persons lacks, because the Son, by sharing in the divine nature,

452
00:31:21.000 --> 00:31:23.440
<v Speaker 1>has all the same powers that the Father has. He's

453
00:31:23.839 --> 00:31:29.440
<v Speaker 1>co eternal, he's coequal, he has co dignity, right, he

454
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:30.559
<v Speaker 1>has co rain.

455
00:31:30.559 --> 00:31:32.440
<v Speaker 2>He has co love.

456
00:31:32.599 --> 00:31:34.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, you could say all of the attributes that

457
00:31:35.000 --> 00:31:37.400
<v Speaker 1>are common to the Godhead are shared by the Son

458
00:31:37.440 --> 00:31:40.559
<v Speaker 1>and the Spirit equally. But as it comes to origin

459
00:31:41.119 --> 00:31:44.319
<v Speaker 1>and order, No, the Father is the first, The Father

460
00:31:44.519 --> 00:31:48.200
<v Speaker 1>is the felt, The Father is God. When we say God,

461
00:31:48.319 --> 00:31:49.640
<v Speaker 1>we mean the person of the Father.

462
00:31:54.400 --> 00:31:56.880
<v Speaker 6>It's a good answer. Does anyone ask any question?

463
00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:00.319
<v Speaker 7>Yeah, I have a question of Yeah.

464
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:04.240
<v Speaker 2>Are the persons of the Trinity God in.

465
00:32:04.200 --> 00:32:06.799
<v Speaker 6>And of themselves or the God only in.

466
00:32:06.759 --> 00:32:08.799
<v Speaker 2>Relation to the Father? Yes?

467
00:32:08.880 --> 00:32:13.920
<v Speaker 1>All the Kappadocians are absolutely unanimous that the only person

468
00:32:14.279 --> 00:32:18.200
<v Speaker 1>whose Autotheos is the Father. So the Son and the Spirit,

469
00:32:18.359 --> 00:32:22.599
<v Speaker 1>when they're called co unoriginate, that's in reference to creation.

470
00:32:23.200 --> 00:32:26.119
<v Speaker 1>It's when they're contrasted to creatures that the Son is

471
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:29.920
<v Speaker 1>called co unoriginate. He is not called co unoriginate in

472
00:32:29.920 --> 00:32:34.440
<v Speaker 1>respect to the Trinity proper. He's always called of the Father.

473
00:32:35.000 --> 00:32:37.880
<v Speaker 1>And you'll you can read the orations. Gregor naci Angas

474
00:32:38.039 --> 00:32:40.839
<v Speaker 1>is super emphatic about this. He's very clear, Basil is

475
00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:44.799
<v Speaker 1>very emphatic about this. To be unoriginate, to be the

476
00:32:44.920 --> 00:32:49.000
<v Speaker 1>unoriginate origin, to be autotheos, is to be the Father.

477
00:32:52.440 --> 00:32:55.480
<v Speaker 1>So the only sense basically that I am aware of,

478
00:32:55.720 --> 00:33:00.400
<v Speaker 1>in which we can say the Son has the power

479
00:33:00.440 --> 00:33:04.559
<v Speaker 1>of being eternal co originate, right or excuse me, co

480
00:33:04.720 --> 00:33:10.240
<v Speaker 1>unoriginate is in reference to creatures, because he is because

481
00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:11.599
<v Speaker 1>the Trinity created the world.

482
00:33:11.759 --> 00:33:13.000
<v Speaker 2>Father, Son, and Spirit.

483
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:18.039
<v Speaker 1>All participate in the action of creating the world. So

484
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:21.160
<v Speaker 1>there are there is a couple places where Nazi angers

485
00:33:21.160 --> 00:33:26.519
<v Speaker 1>will say, is he uh uh co unoriginate? He says

486
00:33:26.559 --> 00:33:30.200
<v Speaker 1>only in contrast to creatures, but in terms of the

487
00:33:30.200 --> 00:33:33.519
<v Speaker 1>Trinity proper, he is not co unoriginate, because that would

488
00:33:33.559 --> 00:33:36.799
<v Speaker 1>mean he shares the Father's unique property of being the

489
00:33:37.000 --> 00:33:38.119
<v Speaker 1>unoriginate origin.

490
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:48.480
<v Speaker 10>Okay, I have a question, Go ahead, So Jay, you

491
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:51.839
<v Speaker 10>said that. So you said that when referring to God,

492
00:33:51.920 --> 00:33:57.279
<v Speaker 10>we are referring to the Father. Correct, So then so

493
00:33:57.319 --> 00:34:00.920
<v Speaker 10>then how come? So then how come it is also

494
00:34:00.960 --> 00:34:04.119
<v Speaker 10>correct to say that Jesus is God? Though if God

495
00:34:04.200 --> 00:34:05.519
<v Speaker 10>is only referring to the Father.

496
00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:06.720
<v Speaker 2>No, I said.

497
00:34:07.200 --> 00:34:11.199
<v Speaker 1>Properly speaking, God refers to the Father, but God also

498
00:34:11.360 --> 00:34:13.639
<v Speaker 1>refers to the Son and the Spirit, because the Father

499
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.719
<v Speaker 1>communicates the same divine nature to the Son and.

500
00:34:16.679 --> 00:34:17.239
<v Speaker 6>To the Spirit.

501
00:34:17.679 --> 00:34:19.559
<v Speaker 2>So if you read the Creed, what does the creed say?

502
00:34:19.599 --> 00:34:22.320
<v Speaker 2>We believe in one God, the Father Almighty.

503
00:34:23.280 --> 00:34:27.559
<v Speaker 1>So the Cappadocians will stress that the beginning of the

504
00:34:27.599 --> 00:34:31.719
<v Speaker 1>Godhead and the recapitulation of Godhead relates back to the

505
00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:34.480
<v Speaker 1>person of the Father. So the Father not only is

506
00:34:34.519 --> 00:34:37.760
<v Speaker 1>the origin, he's also the source of unity. How is

507
00:34:37.760 --> 00:34:40.760
<v Speaker 1>he the source of unity because he communicates that single

508
00:34:40.760 --> 00:34:42.199
<v Speaker 1>divine nature to the other two?

509
00:34:43.360 --> 00:34:44.679
<v Speaker 10>I see.

510
00:34:45.119 --> 00:34:48.519
<v Speaker 1>So we're not saying that the Trinity isn't God. We're

511
00:34:48.559 --> 00:34:51.599
<v Speaker 1>saying that most of the time when we see the

512
00:34:51.639 --> 00:34:54.800
<v Speaker 1>phrase we believe in one God, it's referring to the

513
00:34:54.840 --> 00:34:57.679
<v Speaker 1>hypostasis of the Father, and we say that because it

514
00:34:57.800 --> 00:35:02.320
<v Speaker 1>guards the premiacy of the person a personhood. We don't

515
00:35:02.360 --> 00:35:05.599
<v Speaker 1>we don't begin our Trinitarian theology with the essence.

516
00:35:09.000 --> 00:35:09.920
<v Speaker 10>Okay, thank you.

517
00:35:09.960 --> 00:35:15.639
<v Speaker 1>Sure, I would recommend doctor BOE's talk on the monarchia.

518
00:35:15.719 --> 00:35:17.559
<v Speaker 1>He's very good on that, and he just restates what

519
00:35:17.599 --> 00:35:20.679
<v Speaker 1>the Cave Docians say.

520
00:35:21.039 --> 00:35:26.920
<v Speaker 5>Okay, Christian, I'll just read this one and then we'll

521
00:35:26.920 --> 00:35:29.840
<v Speaker 5>get to you. Christian du what do you think of

522
00:35:29.840 --> 00:35:33.159
<v Speaker 5>the major milestones in the global reaction to the Roman

523
00:35:33.199 --> 00:35:35.760
<v Speaker 5>Catholics slash c I A takeover?

524
00:35:37.639 --> 00:35:40.400
<v Speaker 2>What do I think of the major milestones and what that?

525
00:35:41.760 --> 00:35:43.840
<v Speaker 5>What do you think of the major milestones in the

526
00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:47.440
<v Speaker 5>global reaction to the r c C slash c.

527
00:35:47.400 --> 00:35:48.119
<v Speaker 6>I A takeover.

528
00:35:54.800 --> 00:35:58.440
<v Speaker 1>I think the milestones in reaction would be what we've

529
00:35:58.480 --> 00:36:04.119
<v Speaker 1>seen in the last several years in relation to the

530
00:36:04.199 --> 00:36:07.599
<v Speaker 1>back and forth between the West and Russia. That's the

531
00:36:07.639 --> 00:36:14.119
<v Speaker 1>main milestones of reaction. So the expansion of Orthodox Christianity

532
00:36:14.960 --> 00:36:21.159
<v Speaker 1>in Russia, the situation in the Ukraine, Montenegro, the Church overthrowing,

533
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:26.679
<v Speaker 1>what happened in Montenegro, those are the major milestones of reaction.

534
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:37.679
<v Speaker 11>Okay, sir to the question, Now go ahead, This is

535
00:36:37.679 --> 00:36:40.679
<v Speaker 11>a two parters, so I'm going to ask I have

536
00:36:40.760 --> 00:36:44.920
<v Speaker 11>like two questions related to Protestantism.

537
00:36:45.519 --> 00:36:51.440
<v Speaker 12>Okay, but so yeah, My first question is, how do

538
00:36:51.480 --> 00:36:54.119
<v Speaker 12>you respond to the Protestant notion that the church is

539
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:57.840
<v Speaker 12>invisible as opposed to the Orthodox view of a church

540
00:36:58.440 --> 00:36:59.800
<v Speaker 12>that is a visible institution.

541
00:37:01.000 --> 00:37:02.119
<v Speaker 2>I would simply say that.

542
00:37:03.719 --> 00:37:07.239
<v Speaker 1>Paul's predominant image of the church is the body. The

543
00:37:07.280 --> 00:37:11.119
<v Speaker 1>body of Christ is just as physical and just as

544
00:37:11.119 --> 00:37:14.719
<v Speaker 1>flesh as our bodies. When Christ was resurrected, he told

545
00:37:14.719 --> 00:37:18.079
<v Speaker 1>Thomas to put your finger in my side to show

546
00:37:18.199 --> 00:37:21.360
<v Speaker 1>to Thomas that Jesus wasn't a phantasm. It was the

547
00:37:21.400 --> 00:37:24.239
<v Speaker 1>same Jesus who went to the cross, right, So he

548
00:37:24.360 --> 00:37:27.079
<v Speaker 1>has the same body, he has the same piercing in

549
00:37:27.119 --> 00:37:29.400
<v Speaker 1>his side, and he says, put your finger in my

550
00:37:29.519 --> 00:37:31.880
<v Speaker 1>side to show that it's a physical body.

551
00:37:31.880 --> 00:37:32.760
<v Speaker 2>It's the same one.

552
00:37:33.480 --> 00:37:37.840
<v Speaker 1>So in the same way, the Eucharist is physical, actual bread,

553
00:37:38.000 --> 00:37:40.840
<v Speaker 1>actual wine, because that's how Jesus instituted it.

554
00:37:40.880 --> 00:37:42.079
<v Speaker 2>And so in the same way, the.

555
00:37:42.119 --> 00:37:46.119
<v Speaker 1>Church is made up of visible, physical bodies of people.

556
00:37:46.599 --> 00:37:50.000
<v Speaker 1>So it makes no sense to have this platonic ideal

557
00:37:51.679 --> 00:37:57.039
<v Speaker 1>invisible church, because that no longer fulfills the promises in

558
00:37:57.119 --> 00:38:00.320
<v Speaker 1>the Old Testament about what the church would be when

559
00:38:00.320 --> 00:38:02.800
<v Speaker 1>it comes to be right. You have all these prophecies

560
00:38:02.800 --> 00:38:05.760
<v Speaker 1>in the Old Testament that the sign of the coming

561
00:38:05.800 --> 00:38:09.559
<v Speaker 1>of the Messianic Age will be when all the gentile

562
00:38:09.679 --> 00:38:13.679
<v Speaker 1>nations start to pour into the church. When I go

563
00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.599
<v Speaker 1>to church history, I can look and see who that

564
00:38:16.760 --> 00:38:20.880
<v Speaker 1>church is. It's the Orthodox Church. That's the church of

565
00:38:20.880 --> 00:38:21.960
<v Speaker 1>the first thousand years.

566
00:38:25.039 --> 00:38:26.079
<v Speaker 2>Okay.

567
00:38:26.519 --> 00:38:28.840
<v Speaker 12>So in the second part to that was just a

568
00:38:28.840 --> 00:38:31.280
<v Speaker 12>little context. Me and a friend of mine, we're talking

569
00:38:31.280 --> 00:38:36.360
<v Speaker 12>to a Protestant, older guy, and we wanted to know

570
00:38:36.559 --> 00:38:39.800
<v Speaker 12>how do you respond to Protestants downplaying the importance of

571
00:38:39.840 --> 00:38:43.239
<v Speaker 12>the way communion is prepared, and to give a little

572
00:38:43.559 --> 00:38:45.679
<v Speaker 12>understanding as to why we're asking it, because the guy

573
00:38:45.719 --> 00:38:49.519
<v Speaker 12>that we're talking to said that we needed to that

574
00:38:49.599 --> 00:38:52.960
<v Speaker 12>if it was like I guess you could say, if

575
00:38:52.960 --> 00:38:56.079
<v Speaker 12>it was proper and there was an actual there's an

576
00:38:56.119 --> 00:38:58.400
<v Speaker 12>actual meaning to it, then it should be done in

577
00:38:58.440 --> 00:39:01.800
<v Speaker 12>a feast because it was on it it was originally

578
00:39:01.800 --> 00:39:07.079
<v Speaker 12>prepared on a table in a feast form. How would

579
00:39:07.079 --> 00:39:08.159
<v Speaker 12>you respond to that?

580
00:39:10.760 --> 00:39:13.559
<v Speaker 1>I see, I think what you're saying so right. We

581
00:39:13.599 --> 00:39:16.920
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't say that. So when Jesus was instituting this feast

582
00:39:16.960 --> 00:39:20.159
<v Speaker 1>in the Upper Room and setting the pattern for it,

583
00:39:20.760 --> 00:39:23.119
<v Speaker 1>he's doing a lot of things that are in accordance

584
00:39:23.199 --> 00:39:26.719
<v Speaker 1>with multiple rituals from the Jewish service. Right, So it's

585
00:39:26.760 --> 00:39:31.440
<v Speaker 1>not just Passover. It's partly Passover, but it's also related

586
00:39:31.480 --> 00:39:34.760
<v Speaker 1>to other feasts by which the Jews. If you read Deuteronomy,

587
00:39:35.519 --> 00:39:37.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot of times when they would have the feast,

588
00:39:37.039 --> 00:39:40.480
<v Speaker 1>they would come to the temple, they would bring their sacrifice,

589
00:39:40.519 --> 00:39:43.119
<v Speaker 1>and they would actually eat the animal with the priest

590
00:39:43.639 --> 00:39:44.559
<v Speaker 1>in the sacrifice.

591
00:39:44.599 --> 00:39:46.480
<v Speaker 2>So there's a communal, covenental meal.

592
00:39:46.800 --> 00:39:49.000
<v Speaker 1>When Moses goes up on the mountain in Exodus, he

593
00:39:49.079 --> 00:39:52.280
<v Speaker 1>has a meal with God, this priest. This priest signifies

594
00:39:52.320 --> 00:40:00.400
<v Speaker 1>the Eucharist. When Melchizedek gives when Abraham ties to the Kizic,

595
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:04.599
<v Speaker 1>Melchizedic fixes a feast of bread and wine, which presignifies

596
00:40:04.639 --> 00:40:07.400
<v Speaker 1>the Eucharist. The point is that there's no way that

597
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:11.000
<v Speaker 1>you could literally have every one of the Jewish ceremonies

598
00:40:11.400 --> 00:40:12.519
<v Speaker 1>smushed into one.

599
00:40:13.039 --> 00:40:14.599
<v Speaker 2>So the best way to do it is the way

600
00:40:14.679 --> 00:40:16.639
<v Speaker 2>Jesus did it by creating a meal.

601
00:40:16.840 --> 00:40:19.119
<v Speaker 1>Now, if you look in the Book of Acts, when

602
00:40:19.159 --> 00:40:21.679
<v Speaker 1>they meet together to have the bread at the first

603
00:40:21.760 --> 00:40:22.360
<v Speaker 1>of the week.

604
00:40:22.719 --> 00:40:23.960
<v Speaker 2>They're not all doing a.

605
00:40:23.880 --> 00:40:27.440
<v Speaker 1>Feast, right, There is a love feast that follows the

606
00:40:27.480 --> 00:40:30.360
<v Speaker 1>ceremony that Paul mentions in the New Testament. But the

607
00:40:30.400 --> 00:40:33.960
<v Speaker 1>liturgy itself doesn't have to be a feast, as if

608
00:40:34.000 --> 00:40:36.800
<v Speaker 1>that's somehow essential to the ritual. The other way that

609
00:40:36.840 --> 00:40:40.039
<v Speaker 1>we know this is that the Apostles when they went

610
00:40:40.079 --> 00:40:43.840
<v Speaker 1>and established the churches, they gave the church an actual

611
00:40:43.880 --> 00:40:48.039
<v Speaker 1>liturgy to do. We do the liturgy that's always been done.

612
00:40:48.639 --> 00:40:52.320
<v Speaker 1>Read what Ignatius says about the liturgy in the first century.

613
00:40:52.519 --> 00:40:55.559
<v Speaker 1>Read what Justin Martyr says in one fight about the liturgy.

614
00:40:55.679 --> 00:40:57.960
<v Speaker 1>We still do the same liturgy that they talk about.

615
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:01.480
<v Speaker 6>It's not just the lilogy.

616
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:03.320
<v Speaker 9>It's also like all the cycles that we do that

617
00:41:03.360 --> 00:41:06.880
<v Speaker 9>they also similar to what the Old Testament believers do.

618
00:41:06.960 --> 00:41:09.800
<v Speaker 6>So it's like all of our practice.

619
00:41:10.119 --> 00:41:13.239
<v Speaker 12>Basically, because when I was told about when I when

620
00:41:13.280 --> 00:41:16.559
<v Speaker 12>he kind of like came back at me about this,

621
00:41:16.960 --> 00:41:18.800
<v Speaker 12>you know, when we were talking about when I talked.

622
00:41:18.599 --> 00:41:21.239
<v Speaker 6>To him about the real presence, he was.

623
00:41:21.159 --> 00:41:23.920
<v Speaker 12>Like, well, I mean, technically, if we're going to be like,

624
00:41:24.519 --> 00:41:26.639
<v Speaker 12>if you believe in it, then you should have a feast.

625
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:29.639
<v Speaker 12>And I was kind of like, that's not practical, Like

626
00:41:29.679 --> 00:41:32.440
<v Speaker 12>how would you have a feast for everybody? And I

627
00:41:32.480 --> 00:41:36.119
<v Speaker 12>did mention the literal nature of the words of Jesus

628
00:41:36.119 --> 00:41:38.800
<v Speaker 12>when he was speaking about communion and the blood, blood

629
00:41:38.840 --> 00:41:42.360
<v Speaker 12>and body of Christ. I mean, I think, yeah, And

630
00:41:42.440 --> 00:41:45.840
<v Speaker 12>so is is it You're you're you're coming from an

631
00:41:45.840 --> 00:41:49.320
<v Speaker 12>angle of I guess like practical practicality in church history

632
00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:53.800
<v Speaker 12>having that as a tradition, have like a full on

633
00:41:53.960 --> 00:41:58.280
<v Speaker 12>feast for every communion every uh, you know, like at

634
00:41:58.280 --> 00:41:59.880
<v Speaker 12>the last supper table type of thing.

635
00:42:02.000 --> 00:42:05.440
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but again I mean yeah, I mean who actually

636
00:42:05.519 --> 00:42:06.840
<v Speaker 2>does anybody? Nobody does this.

637
00:42:06.840 --> 00:42:10.039
<v Speaker 1>This is like a in other words, there's it was

638
00:42:10.159 --> 00:42:10.679
<v Speaker 1>really weird.

639
00:42:11.000 --> 00:42:12.360
<v Speaker 12>I didn't expect that it's weird.

640
00:42:12.719 --> 00:42:13.039
<v Speaker 2>I don't know.

641
00:42:13.079 --> 00:42:14.480
<v Speaker 1>This sounds like some kind of this sounds like some

642
00:42:14.559 --> 00:42:16.760
<v Speaker 1>kind of Hebrew roots kind of thing, like you have

643
00:42:16.840 --> 00:42:19.480
<v Speaker 1>to do everything that was done, you know, like in

644
00:42:19.519 --> 00:42:22.880
<v Speaker 1>a ceremonial way, or it's invalid or something ridiculous like.

645
00:42:22.840 --> 00:42:38.159
<v Speaker 7>This is it good?

646
00:42:37.880 --> 00:42:38.159
<v Speaker 6>Ahead?

647
00:42:38.199 --> 00:42:40.079
<v Speaker 2>By the way, I would say, there's a couple of books.

648
00:42:40.119 --> 00:42:43.239
<v Speaker 1>If a person wants an introduction to this issue, just

649
00:42:43.280 --> 00:42:47.400
<v Speaker 1>read Hugh Wybrew's book The Orthodox Liturgy, because it's about

650
00:42:47.440 --> 00:42:51.199
<v Speaker 1>how the eucharistic liturgy developed in the Byzantine right.

651
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:55.639
<v Speaker 2>It relates back to the synagogue and temple worship.

652
00:42:55.679 --> 00:42:58.400
<v Speaker 1>And then this book Orthodox Worship living continuity with the

653
00:42:58.400 --> 00:42:59.840
<v Speaker 1>synagogue temple in early Church.

654
00:43:00.039 --> 00:43:01.039
<v Speaker 2>This is a really good book.

655
00:43:01.760 --> 00:43:04.079
<v Speaker 1>Books or would you say, two different books, one by

656
00:43:04.840 --> 00:43:07.079
<v Speaker 1>Hugh weybrew W I. B. R. E. W.

657
00:43:08.119 --> 00:43:12.119
<v Speaker 2>And then a book by Benjamin Williams and Harold Enstall

658
00:43:13.000 --> 00:43:14.280
<v Speaker 2>called Orthodox Worship.

659
00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:24.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay uh.

660
00:43:25.920 --> 00:43:27.840
<v Speaker 6>First of all, given ja, I hope you're having a

661
00:43:27.840 --> 00:43:28.280
<v Speaker 6>good day.

662
00:43:28.719 --> 00:43:34.079
<v Speaker 4>And my basic question would be along the lines of

663
00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:37.800
<v Speaker 4>do you think Americanism? And I guess more generally, the

664
00:43:37.880 --> 00:43:44.360
<v Speaker 4>love of America and its ideals would be compatible with

665
00:43:44.639 --> 00:43:49.159
<v Speaker 4>strict adherence to Orthodox dogra and the traditions of the Church.

666
00:43:50.679 --> 00:43:54.400
<v Speaker 1>Right, So the Church is not necessarily wedded to any

667
00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:59.880
<v Speaker 1>political structure. The Church's favored monarchy. It has the right

668
00:44:00.119 --> 00:44:02.760
<v Speaker 1>of coronation, which is a kind of sacramental right of

669
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:06.000
<v Speaker 1>the coronation of kings. But the Church can exist anywhere,

670
00:44:06.039 --> 00:44:09.599
<v Speaker 1>even under governments that do not accept that, or you know,

671
00:44:09.679 --> 00:44:10.880
<v Speaker 1>preach Americanism or whatever.

672
00:44:10.960 --> 00:44:12.679
<v Speaker 2>So you can be a patriot, you can be.

673
00:44:14.760 --> 00:44:19.400
<v Speaker 1>A fan of your country insofar as your country's principles

674
00:44:19.400 --> 00:44:21.840
<v Speaker 1>don't contradict Orthodox teaching.

675
00:44:21.920 --> 00:44:22.079
<v Speaker 2>Right.

676
00:44:22.079 --> 00:44:24.440
<v Speaker 1>This is the same principle behind why the martyrs in

677
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:27.280
<v Speaker 1>the first second third century went to death was that

678
00:44:27.760 --> 00:44:32.039
<v Speaker 1>they weren't rejecting the authority of the state inherently, but

679
00:44:32.119 --> 00:44:34.800
<v Speaker 1>when Caesar overstepped his bounds and asked them to do

680
00:44:34.880 --> 00:44:36.280
<v Speaker 1>things that violated the law of God.

681
00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:36.719
<v Speaker 2>So there's a.

682
00:44:36.760 --> 00:44:39.880
<v Speaker 1>Higher authority that trump's even Caesar. That was the reason

683
00:44:39.920 --> 00:44:41.639
<v Speaker 1>why the you know, the martyrs were being put to

684
00:44:41.679 --> 00:44:45.639
<v Speaker 1>death is because they wouldn't admit that Caesar decides, you know,

685
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:50.000
<v Speaker 1>ultimately what gods are allowed and arn't. So because you

686
00:44:50.000 --> 00:44:51.800
<v Speaker 1>could believe any God you wanted to, as long as

687
00:44:51.840 --> 00:44:54.480
<v Speaker 1>you admitted Caesar was also God and had the finals

688
00:44:54.519 --> 00:44:57.239
<v Speaker 1>say so. Right, that's why the Christians were put to

689
00:44:57.239 --> 00:45:00.119
<v Speaker 1>death because they wouldn't admit that about Caesar. So in

690
00:45:00.159 --> 00:45:03.320
<v Speaker 1>the same way, you could say that, you know, you

691
00:45:03.320 --> 00:45:08.280
<v Speaker 1>can grant to the American situation as much as is

692
00:45:08.360 --> 00:45:12.599
<v Speaker 1>possible in terms of the positive aspects of the system,

693
00:45:13.079 --> 00:45:15.159
<v Speaker 1>but there are aspects of the system which.

694
00:45:15.039 --> 00:45:17.760
<v Speaker 2>Are not in concord with Orthodox theology.

695
00:45:18.280 --> 00:45:22.159
<v Speaker 1>For example, it's not the case that the state should

696
00:45:22.199 --> 00:45:23.800
<v Speaker 1>be ideally secular.

697
00:45:24.119 --> 00:45:25.719
<v Speaker 2>That's not true.

698
00:45:28.320 --> 00:45:30.639
<v Speaker 6>Do you think that, and only what this?

699
00:45:30.760 --> 00:45:34.039
<v Speaker 4>Do you think that America was inherently meant to be

700
00:45:34.079 --> 00:45:34.800
<v Speaker 4>a secular nation?

701
00:45:35.440 --> 00:45:38.639
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that's why we started with Thomas Paine. Now that's

702
00:45:38.679 --> 00:45:41.440
<v Speaker 1>a little harry because because you could say, oh, but

703
00:45:41.559 --> 00:45:44.199
<v Speaker 1>some of the founding fathers believed in theism. Some of

704
00:45:44.199 --> 00:45:48.119
<v Speaker 1>them were Episcopalian, some of them were Catholic, one or

705
00:45:48.119 --> 00:45:51.000
<v Speaker 1>two were Catholics, some of them were Deists.

706
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:54.599
<v Speaker 2>So I mean yes and no.

707
00:45:54.679 --> 00:45:57.280
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's like it's like when a when ah,

708
00:45:58.400 --> 00:46:02.840
<v Speaker 1>when a Satanist says I believe in a deity, and

709
00:46:02.880 --> 00:46:04.480
<v Speaker 1>then I say I believe in a deity and a

710
00:46:04.559 --> 00:46:05.920
<v Speaker 1>Muslim says I believe in a deity.

711
00:46:06.119 --> 00:46:08.559
<v Speaker 2>Do we all believe in a deity? Well? Yeah, but

712
00:46:08.599 --> 00:46:10.239
<v Speaker 2>does that mean we believe in the same deity?

713
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:10.400
<v Speaker 10>No?

714
00:46:10.960 --> 00:46:12.039
<v Speaker 2>So is the.

715
00:46:12.039 --> 00:46:17.360
<v Speaker 1>American constitution based on Christian principles or Enlightenment principles both?

716
00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:20.360
<v Speaker 2>It's a it's a mix. So there's not a there's

717
00:46:20.360 --> 00:46:22.679
<v Speaker 2>not like an easy way out of this.

718
00:46:25.480 --> 00:46:28.440
<v Speaker 6>Oh yeah, all right, that's pretty much answered my question.

719
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:29.280
<v Speaker 6>Thanks verat timing Ja.

720
00:46:32.400 --> 00:46:42.559
<v Speaker 13>Okay, okay, go ahead, uh quick, Jay you mentioned that

721
00:46:42.719 --> 00:46:44.920
<v Speaker 13>Ratsinger denies the.

722
00:46:44.679 --> 00:46:46.760
<v Speaker 6>Bodily resurrection of Jesus.

723
00:46:47.639 --> 00:46:49.719
<v Speaker 10>Do you mind giving me a citation for that?

724
00:46:51.079 --> 00:46:53.320
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think it's at the end of Introduction of Christianity.

725
00:46:53.400 --> 00:46:57.280
<v Speaker 13>Let me see Introduction of Christianity.

726
00:46:57.320 --> 00:47:00.320
<v Speaker 10>But h.

727
00:47:03.400 --> 00:47:25.079
<v Speaker 14>I think yes, I think it's the last.

728
00:47:29.159 --> 00:47:34.519
<v Speaker 1>The last chapter, the resurrection the Body, page three forty seven,

729
00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:37.719
<v Speaker 1>Introduction of Christianity. A lot of people have made us

730
00:47:37.719 --> 00:47:39.639
<v Speaker 1>stink about it. I mean, he's actually got a whole

731
00:47:39.679 --> 00:47:41.320
<v Speaker 1>bunch of he's got He's got a whole bunch of

732
00:47:41.400 --> 00:47:43.519
<v Speaker 1>modernist statements. It's not like, oh, there's just one.

733
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:47.559
<v Speaker 2>But of course, oh well, we don't We don't really

734
00:47:47.599 --> 00:47:50.440
<v Speaker 2>know what he means. He doesn't really say itself. You're

735
00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:53.719
<v Speaker 2>just they're just gonna do the never ending cope of oh,

736
00:47:53.760 --> 00:47:58.199
<v Speaker 2>he didn't really mean that. When he says that, he

737
00:47:58.280 --> 00:47:59.320
<v Speaker 2>basically did not.

738
00:47:59.480 --> 00:48:01.960
<v Speaker 1>He's like he's he says something like, we can't have

739
00:48:02.000 --> 00:48:05.079
<v Speaker 1>this ancient view of it being like an actual body.

740
00:48:06.159 --> 00:48:09.360
<v Speaker 2>We don't know what it is. It's just like this

741
00:48:09.480 --> 00:48:16.039
<v Speaker 2>really vague thing about.

742
00:48:16.760 --> 00:48:18.320
<v Speaker 10>So Dostism is tread.

743
00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:28.719
<v Speaker 5>Now, Okay, what role does the British intelligence play in

744
00:48:28.719 --> 00:48:30.679
<v Speaker 5>today's geopolitical climate?

745
00:48:30.880 --> 00:48:32.159
<v Speaker 6>And who is in the driving seat.

746
00:48:35.519 --> 00:48:36.320
<v Speaker 2>I think that.

747
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:38.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean, you can just look at what all has

748
00:48:38.719 --> 00:48:41.760
<v Speaker 1>happened in the last six months, eight months to see

749
00:48:41.800 --> 00:48:46.039
<v Speaker 1>who's running things. I mean, everything is run right now

750
00:48:46.159 --> 00:48:48.639
<v Speaker 1>by the same people that have been running things since.

751
00:48:48.760 --> 00:48:51.719
<v Speaker 1>What I'm talking about in these books, it's the same

752
00:48:51.760 --> 00:48:58.440
<v Speaker 1>power structure. It's the Anglo elite establishment right that includes US,

753
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:03.320
<v Speaker 1>UK Israel all on the same team, and they are

754
00:49:03.360 --> 00:49:06.239
<v Speaker 1>engaged in all the operations that you're seeing, like in

755
00:49:06.280 --> 00:49:11.559
<v Speaker 1>Russia or in Ukraine. I'm excuting Montenegro, Ukraine. All of

756
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:14.760
<v Speaker 1>that stuff is the outplaying of this. It's all the

757
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:15.440
<v Speaker 1>same stuff.

758
00:49:19.519 --> 00:49:23.559
<v Speaker 5>Next question is what is the orthodoxy viewpoint of mortification

759
00:49:23.840 --> 00:49:26.239
<v Speaker 5>of the flesh in Catholicism.

760
00:49:27.360 --> 00:49:30.800
<v Speaker 1>Saint Gregory Palamos, we don't believe in mortification. Mortification is

761
00:49:30.840 --> 00:49:35.920
<v Speaker 1>a erroneous doctrine of Catholicism that negates the body. Orthodoxy

762
00:49:36.000 --> 00:49:39.480
<v Speaker 1>is very pro body because of the resurrection. We stress

763
00:49:39.519 --> 00:49:44.760
<v Speaker 1>the resurrection. We don't mortify the flesh. We believe the

764
00:49:44.800 --> 00:49:48.119
<v Speaker 1>flesh is deified, so we do practice asceticism, but that's

765
00:49:48.159 --> 00:49:52.400
<v Speaker 1>not the same thing as mortifying the flesh. Mortifying the

766
00:49:52.440 --> 00:49:57.000
<v Speaker 1>flesh is based on a mistranslation. I think in the Vulgate.

767
00:50:01.039 --> 00:50:04.199
<v Speaker 5>Does act as purists make or attempt to make the

768
00:50:04.239 --> 00:50:05.800
<v Speaker 5>Trinity into a monad.

769
00:50:07.840 --> 00:50:10.119
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't attempt to. It attempts to have.

770
00:50:10.039 --> 00:50:14.480
<v Speaker 1>A philosophical definition and explication of what simplicity is and

771
00:50:14.519 --> 00:50:19.480
<v Speaker 1>how to do natural theology based on philosophic first principles,

772
00:50:20.760 --> 00:50:26.719
<v Speaker 1>but it unfortunately precludes and negates the trinitarian doctrines which

773
00:50:26.880 --> 00:50:31.559
<v Speaker 1>necessitate real distinctions in the Trinity, and for example, one

774
00:50:31.639 --> 00:50:35.400
<v Speaker 1>hypostasis being able to enter into a motive being that

775
00:50:35.559 --> 00:50:38.800
<v Speaker 1>the other two do not, namely, the Son becomes, incarnates

776
00:50:38.800 --> 00:50:41.039
<v Speaker 1>and dies, the Father and the Spirit do not. So

777
00:50:41.079 --> 00:50:44.239
<v Speaker 1>you need a Trinitarian theology that allows for that and

778
00:50:44.320 --> 00:50:48.880
<v Speaker 1>doesn't preclude it by its simplicity doctrine. So Actus purists

779
00:50:48.880 --> 00:50:53.760
<v Speaker 1>also necessitates an eternal creator, an eternal creation that the

780
00:50:53.800 --> 00:50:58.960
<v Speaker 1>eternal actualizer is actualizing and moving. It means that all

781
00:50:59.000 --> 00:51:00.760
<v Speaker 1>possible worlds have to be the actualize.

782
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:02.000
<v Speaker 2>There's no potential in God.

783
00:51:02.039 --> 00:51:04.719
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it has all these problems that just really

784
00:51:04.719 --> 00:51:10.119
<v Speaker 1>don't line up with what's needed to have orthodox trinitarian

785
00:51:10.719 --> 00:51:12.280
<v Speaker 1>and crystological teaching.

786
00:51:17.519 --> 00:51:21.239
<v Speaker 5>What's the main what is the major problems you see

787
00:51:21.280 --> 00:51:25.480
<v Speaker 5>with using relations of opposition to distinguish members of the Trinity.

788
00:51:26.039 --> 00:51:30.719
<v Speaker 1>Well, first and foremost, they're not the distinctions that are

789
00:51:30.760 --> 00:51:35.440
<v Speaker 1>already codified and used and confirmed by the Cappadocians. So

790
00:51:35.559 --> 00:51:39.400
<v Speaker 1>Athanacious and the Cappadocians have a very specific, very consistent,

791
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:43.639
<v Speaker 1>clear doctrine of how to explicate and pick out the persons.

792
00:51:44.239 --> 00:51:47.440
<v Speaker 1>There's nothing about relations of opposition until Augustine and later

793
00:51:47.639 --> 00:51:50.960
<v Speaker 1>Latin theologians. So all I really have to do is

794
00:51:51.000 --> 00:51:56.760
<v Speaker 1>just point out that constantinople One dogmatically affirms the Cappadocian

795
00:51:56.840 --> 00:52:01.559
<v Speaker 1>and ATHANATIONI interpretation of the Creed, so that precludes any

796
00:52:01.599 --> 00:52:05.440
<v Speaker 1>relations of opposition just from the outset on a dogmatic stance.

797
00:52:05.840 --> 00:52:09.679
<v Speaker 1>But beyond that, relations of opposition literally makes absolutely no

798
00:52:09.840 --> 00:52:12.679
<v Speaker 1>sense in the Trinity, because the Trinity is a triad,

799
00:52:13.199 --> 00:52:17.760
<v Speaker 1>not a diad. Opposition relates to diad. God is not

800
00:52:17.800 --> 00:52:19.880
<v Speaker 1>a diad, the Trinity is not a diad. There's no

801
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:23.880
<v Speaker 1>such thing as relations of opposition in a triad by definition,

802
00:52:24.360 --> 00:52:28.920
<v Speaker 1>so that's problematic. But also, the persons are not relations,

803
00:52:29.400 --> 00:52:32.960
<v Speaker 1>the persons are subjects. And this is I think Loski's critique,

804
00:52:33.159 --> 00:52:36.079
<v Speaker 1>which is to say that Thomas is wrong when he

805
00:52:36.119 --> 00:52:39.119
<v Speaker 1>says persona at ralacchio, and he only says persona at

806
00:52:39.159 --> 00:52:41.679
<v Speaker 1>ralostio because of absolute simplicity.

807
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.039
<v Speaker 2>But a relation is a.

808
00:52:46.440 --> 00:52:50.400
<v Speaker 1>Predicate, not a subject, and the persons are subjects, So

809
00:52:50.440 --> 00:52:54.639
<v Speaker 1>you can't define a subject by a predicate or a relation.

810
00:52:58.000 --> 00:52:58.480
<v Speaker 6>Right.

811
00:53:00.280 --> 00:53:03.119
<v Speaker 5>Is In a writing I was reading on the Bogamil heresy,

812
00:53:03.400 --> 00:53:06.679
<v Speaker 5>the writers stated the Latins were still using the liturgy

813
00:53:06.880 --> 00:53:10.159
<v Speaker 5>made by Peter. So could you argue that the Catholics

814
00:53:10.440 --> 00:53:13.440
<v Speaker 5>not preserving the liturgy of Peter is evidence in a

815
00:53:13.480 --> 00:53:22.880
<v Speaker 5>sense against either papal infallibility or papal supremacy.

816
00:53:21.039 --> 00:53:24.840
<v Speaker 1>By the liturgy made by Peter. Are you talking about

817
00:53:24.920 --> 00:53:32.800
<v Speaker 1>the Gregorian liturgy?

818
00:53:33.400 --> 00:53:36.519
<v Speaker 6>Perhaps we could amuse him or wait for him.

819
00:53:36.360 --> 00:53:40.679
<v Speaker 10>To clarify that question, because that is a very interesting cavio.

820
00:53:42.239 --> 00:53:44.679
<v Speaker 8>Yeah, if he wants to, he can just type of question.

821
00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:48.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I'm not a historian of the history of

822
00:53:48.519 --> 00:53:51.840
<v Speaker 1>the Latin liturgy. I mean, I know about the major reforms,

823
00:53:52.239 --> 00:53:56.119
<v Speaker 1>the Gregorian reforms. I know about what happened under different popes,

824
00:53:58.360 --> 00:54:03.440
<v Speaker 1>pious and these people would the data DEFECTI boos and

825
00:54:03.480 --> 00:54:05.679
<v Speaker 1>all this kind of stuff, So, but I don't know

826
00:54:05.719 --> 00:54:08.679
<v Speaker 1>how I mean I guess. I guess some people would

827
00:54:08.679 --> 00:54:11.599
<v Speaker 1>say that's the liturgy of Peter. I mean, it's not

828
00:54:11.639 --> 00:54:13.599
<v Speaker 1>typically the way the trad speak. They just talk about

829
00:54:13.599 --> 00:54:16.760
<v Speaker 1>the Gregorian right, but I mean Western right Orthodox churches

830
00:54:17.000 --> 00:54:22.559
<v Speaker 1>will use the Gregorian liturgy, So I'm not sure what

831
00:54:22.639 --> 00:54:26.039
<v Speaker 1>you mean by the Petrine liturgy.

832
00:54:28.000 --> 00:54:31.679
<v Speaker 15>Yeah, I guess my question was like someone were related

833
00:54:31.719 --> 00:54:35.639
<v Speaker 15>to like did he make a liturgy in the sense,

834
00:54:36.320 --> 00:54:38.880
<v Speaker 15>So it was kind of two questions in one.

835
00:54:40.519 --> 00:54:42.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that we probably don't know.

836
00:54:43.559 --> 00:54:46.679
<v Speaker 1>So actually there's quite a bit about the first and

837
00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:50.239
<v Speaker 1>second century that we don't know. I'm not saying that

838
00:54:50.280 --> 00:54:52.920
<v Speaker 1>there aren't scholars who don't have knowledge of this or

839
00:54:52.960 --> 00:54:55.480
<v Speaker 1>a theory on this. I'm just saying I don't personally know.

840
00:54:55.519 --> 00:54:58.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm not a liturgical scholar. I have some familiarity with

841
00:54:58.760 --> 00:55:01.719
<v Speaker 1>some of the stuff with Patristia, but liturgics is kind

842
00:55:01.719 --> 00:55:06.960
<v Speaker 1>of its own domain, and I don't know exactly it.

843
00:55:07.000 --> 00:55:08.679
<v Speaker 2>Would probably have to look.

844
00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:18.639
<v Speaker 1>At Ratolian or Hippolitus, and they could probably have insights

845
00:55:18.679 --> 00:55:22.599
<v Speaker 1>into how the early Latin liturgy bit would have been done,

846
00:55:23.320 --> 00:55:24.559
<v Speaker 1>But I don't actually know.

847
00:55:24.679 --> 00:55:27.760
<v Speaker 2>That's a good question, ok, thank.

848
00:55:27.639 --> 00:55:35.199
<v Speaker 5>You, Okay, next, Ascapsultis had a question if you could

849
00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:36.840
<v Speaker 5>have me and ask you a question, go ahead.

850
00:55:39.119 --> 00:55:39.559
<v Speaker 7>Oh yeah.

851
00:55:39.559 --> 00:55:43.559
<v Speaker 9>So in a recent video jay that you had on TAG,

852
00:55:44.119 --> 00:55:47.360
<v Speaker 9>you talked about how it's it's necessary for there to

853
00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:49.360
<v Speaker 9>be a trinity because otherwise you end up with this

854
00:55:49.440 --> 00:55:54.280
<v Speaker 9>situation where God is contingent on creation, right, because otherwise

855
00:55:54.400 --> 00:55:56.280
<v Speaker 9>he doesn't he doesn't have a thing to be like

856
00:55:56.360 --> 00:56:00.000
<v Speaker 9>God of Right, Am I representing that correctly?

857
00:56:00.440 --> 00:56:00.639
<v Speaker 2>Right?

858
00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:05.400
<v Speaker 9>And so I was just wondering how that exactly works

859
00:56:05.480 --> 00:56:08.199
<v Speaker 9>with like the Son and the Holy Spirit, because I

860
00:56:08.239 --> 00:56:12.159
<v Speaker 9>get them like the Father as the monarch would be

861
00:56:12.719 --> 00:56:15.519
<v Speaker 9>you know, the you know, the monarch of this of

862
00:56:15.559 --> 00:56:17.880
<v Speaker 9>the Son of the Holy Spirit. But would this would

863
00:56:17.920 --> 00:56:20.480
<v Speaker 9>the Son like be the God of the Father and

864
00:56:20.480 --> 00:56:22.760
<v Speaker 9>the Holy Spirit or and like would it worked that

865
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:23.199
<v Speaker 9>way too?

866
00:56:26.079 --> 00:56:29.960
<v Speaker 2>No, No, those kind of terms would be.

867
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:35.719
<v Speaker 1>Like the Father would still have a premissy in terms

868
00:56:35.760 --> 00:56:40.239
<v Speaker 1>of being the cause to unoriginate the fountain the beginning,

869
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:43.880
<v Speaker 1>but we don't import into those terms anything to do

870
00:56:43.920 --> 00:56:49.159
<v Speaker 1>with temporal power or supremacy. So the Father in generating

871
00:56:49.199 --> 00:56:52.519
<v Speaker 1>a son that is his icon or his direct image,

872
00:56:53.320 --> 00:56:56.679
<v Speaker 1>also communicates to him the same divine nature that he possesses.

873
00:56:56.800 --> 00:56:59.079
<v Speaker 1>Just as a human father gives birth to a human son.

874
00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:02.079
<v Speaker 1>They have the same nature even though they're distinct persons.

875
00:57:02.400 --> 00:57:04.800
<v Speaker 1>So that's just an analogy for how in the trinity,

876
00:57:05.320 --> 00:57:09.400
<v Speaker 1>the son being the son of the Father. He Jesus

877
00:57:09.400 --> 00:57:11.639
<v Speaker 1>says all these statements in the Book of John, like,

878
00:57:11.800 --> 00:57:14.039
<v Speaker 1>you know, I came to show you the father, to

879
00:57:14.079 --> 00:57:15.960
<v Speaker 1>direct you to the Father. I came to only do

880
00:57:16.000 --> 00:57:18.199
<v Speaker 1>what the Father says. I only follow what the Father

881
00:57:18.280 --> 00:57:20.480
<v Speaker 1>tells me to do. I commit his you know, I

882
00:57:20.519 --> 00:57:23.920
<v Speaker 1>only do his will. So he's in full subjection to

883
00:57:24.000 --> 00:57:29.199
<v Speaker 1>the father. Right, So the father is given premissy in

884
00:57:29.239 --> 00:57:34.199
<v Speaker 1>the sense that he's the father, but he also, Jesus says,

885
00:57:34.440 --> 00:57:37.199
<v Speaker 1>for the Father has given the son to have life

886
00:57:37.199 --> 00:57:40.480
<v Speaker 1>in himself. Right, the father has given everything that he

887
00:57:40.519 --> 00:57:45.559
<v Speaker 1>possesses to the son. So the father communicates and gives

888
00:57:45.639 --> 00:57:48.199
<v Speaker 1>out of self love excuse me, out of true love

889
00:57:48.280 --> 00:57:54.360
<v Speaker 1>to the other, to his son, the full community.

890
00:57:52.960 --> 00:57:57.199
<v Speaker 2>Of divine power that he possesses. Right, So there's no

891
00:57:57.559 --> 00:57:59.159
<v Speaker 2>lacking in what Jesus has.

892
00:57:59.320 --> 00:58:02.239
<v Speaker 1>So, in other words, it's not like an either or

893
00:58:02.360 --> 00:58:08.400
<v Speaker 1>where we're saying that God and Lord only apply to

894
00:58:08.480 --> 00:58:11.840
<v Speaker 1>a to a created order. We're saying that The reason

895
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:16.960
<v Speaker 1>that God doesn't require a created order to be lord

896
00:58:17.119 --> 00:58:19.679
<v Speaker 1>is because the Father has a son, and the Father

897
00:58:19.719 --> 00:58:22.719
<v Speaker 1>and the Son share a communion of love, which is

898
00:58:22.719 --> 00:58:25.880
<v Speaker 1>the Spirit in a manifestation sense.

899
00:58:28.519 --> 00:58:30.079
<v Speaker 6>Son.

900
00:58:30.840 --> 00:58:33.679
<v Speaker 9>That the Son and the Holy Spirit would require creation

901
00:58:33.800 --> 00:58:35.199
<v Speaker 9>in order to be lord of something.

902
00:58:37.920 --> 00:58:40.800
<v Speaker 1>No, because they that's the point of that. They share

903
00:58:40.840 --> 00:58:44.480
<v Speaker 1>that love to one another. So, in other words, the

904
00:58:45.079 --> 00:58:48.320
<v Speaker 1>Son returns the love back to the Father simultaneously, the

905
00:58:48.320 --> 00:58:51.559
<v Speaker 1>Father loves the Spirit uh and the son.

906
00:58:51.840 --> 00:58:53.519
<v Speaker 2>The Spirit loves the.

907
00:58:53.400 --> 00:58:57.079
<v Speaker 1>Son and the Father, so that communion is shared amongst

908
00:58:57.079 --> 00:58:59.280
<v Speaker 1>all three. And so the point is that there is

909
00:58:59.320 --> 00:59:06.440
<v Speaker 1>a mutual communion that occurs that doesn't require the property

910
00:59:06.519 --> 00:59:10.360
<v Speaker 1>of In other words, we say that God in the

911
00:59:10.400 --> 00:59:13.960
<v Speaker 1>sense of being lord or providence or God over something,

912
00:59:14.840 --> 00:59:17.559
<v Speaker 1>that's only an attribute that God takes on in relation

913
00:59:17.639 --> 00:59:24.519
<v Speaker 1>to creation. So he wasn't providential or creator before he created.

914
00:59:24.679 --> 00:59:30.800
<v Speaker 1>We don't believe in an eternal creator. But what I'm saying,

915
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:34.000
<v Speaker 1>I see your objection. I'm trying to see to phrase

916
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:38.159
<v Speaker 1>it right, you're saying that if the Trinity bypasses the

917
00:59:38.199 --> 00:59:41.719
<v Speaker 1>problem of saying that God needed the creation to be

918
00:59:41.880 --> 00:59:47.239
<v Speaker 1>lord over, then doesn't the Son and the spirit lack

919
00:59:47.320 --> 00:59:48.480
<v Speaker 1>the property of being.

920
00:59:48.360 --> 00:59:49.079
<v Speaker 2>God or Lord.

921
00:59:49.840 --> 00:59:54.800
<v Speaker 1>But God and Lord are or we're saying he's obviously

922
00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:57.440
<v Speaker 1>God from all eternity. But sometimes people will say the

923
00:59:57.480 --> 00:59:59.760
<v Speaker 1>definition of God is to be a god of creation.

924
01:00:00.320 --> 01:00:02.360
<v Speaker 2>So in that sense we don't say he's God.

925
01:00:02.679 --> 01:00:05.440
<v Speaker 1>If by God you mean God the Father, then yes,

926
01:00:05.519 --> 01:00:09.039
<v Speaker 1>he's God, the Father from all eternity, Father of who

927
01:00:09.760 --> 01:00:12.840
<v Speaker 1>greater than who greater than the Son, in the sense

928
01:00:12.880 --> 01:00:14.400
<v Speaker 1>of being the origin.

929
01:00:14.039 --> 01:00:14.480
<v Speaker 2>Of the Son.

930
01:00:18.000 --> 01:00:19.960
<v Speaker 6>All righty, gotcha makes sense, Thank you so much.

931
01:00:22.920 --> 01:00:27.079
<v Speaker 5>Okay, next question is is there a theological reasoning that

932
01:00:27.159 --> 01:00:30.760
<v Speaker 5>led to the entire Orthodox Church adopting the Byzantine right?

933
01:00:31.719 --> 01:00:35.119
<v Speaker 5>And then he says, after the Calcidon Schism, the Church

934
01:00:35.159 --> 01:00:38.440
<v Speaker 5>of Antioch adopted the Byzantine Rite and abandoned the Syriac right.

935
01:00:38.840 --> 01:00:41.920
<v Speaker 5>In the twelfth century, the Georgian Church adopted the Byzantine

936
01:00:41.960 --> 01:00:44.880
<v Speaker 5>right and dropped the Armenian tradition, and in the sixteenth

937
01:00:44.920 --> 01:00:47.440
<v Speaker 5>century in the Russian Church made their rights conformative to

938
01:00:47.480 --> 01:00:52.960
<v Speaker 5>the Greeks, causing the Old believe aschism.

939
01:00:54.280 --> 01:00:57.320
<v Speaker 1>But aside from the just the historical instances, I don't

940
01:00:57.320 --> 01:01:00.760
<v Speaker 1>know that there's some overriding decision and to do that,

941
01:01:00.960 --> 01:01:04.800
<v Speaker 1>I mean, there's nothing inherently necessarily wrong with the other

942
01:01:05.039 --> 01:01:07.440
<v Speaker 1>rights per se. And I think even on Mountain Athos

943
01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:11.519
<v Speaker 1>the Liturgy of Saint James is celebrated sometimes right, which

944
01:01:11.559 --> 01:01:16.679
<v Speaker 1>is the Alexandrian liturgy. So it's not infallibly the case

945
01:01:16.800 --> 01:01:22.880
<v Speaker 1>that that's always, but it's rather that it just becomes

946
01:01:23.000 --> 01:01:26.039
<v Speaker 1>more and more normative, and everybody kind of wants to

947
01:01:26.039 --> 01:01:28.559
<v Speaker 1>do things in harmony, I guess. So it's not that

948
01:01:28.599 --> 01:01:32.039
<v Speaker 1>they're defective, but it's it's like the Western right. It's

949
01:01:32.039 --> 01:01:35.440
<v Speaker 1>not that the Gregorian right is necessarily bad, but what

950
01:01:35.599 --> 01:01:37.880
<v Speaker 1>happens is that a lot of times people will bring

951
01:01:38.480 --> 01:01:43.599
<v Speaker 1>their theological baggage and assumptions into the Latin liturgy and

952
01:01:43.679 --> 01:01:47.519
<v Speaker 1>they don't get the good theology that's present in the

953
01:01:47.559 --> 01:01:52.760
<v Speaker 1>Byzantine liturgy. So it's more so maybe pragmatic reasons than

954
01:01:52.800 --> 01:01:56.679
<v Speaker 1>it is like some sort of inherent defect, I would say,

955
01:01:57.199 --> 01:01:59.199
<v Speaker 1>But I'm also not a liturgical scholar.

956
01:01:59.320 --> 01:02:00.719
<v Speaker 2>That's not mine. Forte.

957
01:02:03.719 --> 01:02:04.000
<v Speaker 6>Okay.

958
01:02:04.119 --> 01:02:07.159
<v Speaker 5>The next question is how is it possible that the

959
01:02:07.199 --> 01:02:11.599
<v Speaker 5>academic consensus on the works of Saint Dionysius places its

960
01:02:11.599 --> 01:02:16.159
<v Speaker 5>true authorship as some pseudonymous writer almost five hundred years

961
01:02:16.239 --> 01:02:19.599
<v Speaker 5>later than tradition. It seems that such a huge disparity

962
01:02:19.599 --> 01:02:24.320
<v Speaker 5>in dating should be easily resolvable through textual analysis, historical cizations,

963
01:02:24.360 --> 01:02:26.920
<v Speaker 5>and so forth. This strikes me as an important issue

964
01:02:26.960 --> 01:02:29.519
<v Speaker 5>since it gives ammunition to those claiming the ee distinction.

965
01:02:29.880 --> 01:02:34.440
<v Speaker 5>Orthodoxy is just grouped from Neoplatonism. Even Orthodox wiki cs

966
01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:37.880
<v Speaker 5>to the academic consensus. Do the academics have that strong

967
01:02:37.880 --> 01:02:38.440
<v Speaker 5>of a case?

968
01:02:39.199 --> 01:02:39.519
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

969
01:02:39.559 --> 01:02:43.400
<v Speaker 1>First of all, go read David Bradshaw's book Aristotle East

970
01:02:43.400 --> 01:02:46.000
<v Speaker 1>and West, and you will see that the essence introducinction

971
01:02:46.199 --> 01:02:49.679
<v Speaker 1>is not predicated on Dionysius and the Divine names. Dionysius

972
01:02:49.719 --> 01:02:52.079
<v Speaker 1>and the Divine names does make the essen senterd discinction.

973
01:02:52.400 --> 01:02:56.639
<v Speaker 1>The essence inerdiscinction is completely contrary to Neoplatonism. I'm not

974
01:02:56.639 --> 01:02:59.800
<v Speaker 1>sure to be rude, but if you understood the essence introducinction,

975
01:02:59.880 --> 01:03:01.079
<v Speaker 1>you would know that it's.

976
01:03:00.920 --> 01:03:03.639
<v Speaker 2>Employed to refute Neoplatonism.

977
01:03:04.159 --> 01:03:07.239
<v Speaker 1>I can't stress this enough. I get tired of constantly

978
01:03:07.320 --> 01:03:10.079
<v Speaker 1>saying this to the Roman Catholics and to the tomiss

979
01:03:10.800 --> 01:03:15.079
<v Speaker 1>When Basil writes about the essence energy distinction, he's arguing

980
01:03:15.400 --> 01:03:19.840
<v Speaker 1>against people who have Platonic assumptions of simplicity. The essence

981
01:03:19.920 --> 01:03:25.840
<v Speaker 1>energy distinction refutes neoplatonism. Now, is there a similarity between

982
01:03:26.000 --> 01:03:29.599
<v Speaker 1>neoplatonism and what's in Dinysius. Yes, I don't think anybody

983
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:34.239
<v Speaker 1>disputes that. However, what theoretically could be disputed. If you

984
01:03:34.320 --> 01:03:39.360
<v Speaker 1>read the Steinieloi essay at Orthochristian about the dating of Dinysius,

985
01:03:40.119 --> 01:03:43.440
<v Speaker 1>there is a defense of Dinysius being Dinysius.

986
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:44.960
<v Speaker 2>So I would recommend that essay at.

987
01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:48.000
<v Speaker 1>Orthochristian defense of the dating of Dinasius or something like

988
01:03:48.079 --> 01:03:51.159
<v Speaker 1>that on the title of Dinasia or something like that.

989
01:03:52.119 --> 01:03:55.800
<v Speaker 2>But setting that issue aside the other possibility. It also

990
01:03:55.840 --> 01:03:56.400
<v Speaker 2>could be the.

991
01:03:56.280 --> 01:03:59.559
<v Speaker 1>Case that, as I was saying to that guy about

992
01:03:59.559 --> 01:04:03.199
<v Speaker 1>the liturgy, I don't think people realize that when it

993
01:04:03.239 --> 01:04:08.199
<v Speaker 1>comes to these first, second, third, fourth century stuff, there's.

994
01:04:08.000 --> 01:04:09.320
<v Speaker 2>A lot that we don't know.

995
01:04:09.679 --> 01:04:14.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, manuscripts are being discovered all the time, there's new

996
01:04:14.039 --> 01:04:19.920
<v Speaker 1>stuff that comes about, so textual criticism and reconstruction involves

997
01:04:20.000 --> 01:04:22.400
<v Speaker 1>a lot of guesswork. I'm not saying that it can't

998
01:04:22.440 --> 01:04:24.320
<v Speaker 1>be done. I'm not saying that they're all we've had

999
01:04:24.360 --> 01:04:28.440
<v Speaker 1>textual scholars on so I'm not trying to be overly simplistic.

1000
01:04:28.519 --> 01:04:31.960
<v Speaker 1>I recognize the nuances. I'm just saying that, for example,

1001
01:04:32.880 --> 01:04:35.400
<v Speaker 1>it could be the case that the present documents that

1002
01:04:35.480 --> 01:04:41.199
<v Speaker 1>we have of Dionysius are later additions that do include

1003
01:04:41.360 --> 01:04:44.960
<v Speaker 1>neoplatonic phraseology and terms.

1004
01:04:46.039 --> 01:04:48.039
<v Speaker 2>So it's not like it has to be some either

1005
01:04:48.280 --> 01:04:49.719
<v Speaker 2>or like, well, either there was.

1006
01:04:49.719 --> 01:04:53.400
<v Speaker 1>A dude named Dionysius who composed all of that treatise,

1007
01:04:54.159 --> 01:04:57.480
<v Speaker 1>or maybe there's a redacted one that we have that's

1008
01:04:57.559 --> 01:05:00.440
<v Speaker 1>from the fourth or fifth century that is based on

1009
01:05:00.599 --> 01:05:02.559
<v Speaker 1>a smaller corpus.

1010
01:05:02.719 --> 01:05:04.800
<v Speaker 2>Of the real dynasties. I mean, we just don't know.

1011
01:05:05.079 --> 01:05:07.280
<v Speaker 2>So in other words, when you read.

1012
01:05:07.119 --> 01:05:10.760
<v Speaker 1>About textual scholarship, I'm not saying you haven't read it.

1013
01:05:10.800 --> 01:05:12.159
<v Speaker 1>I don't know who you are or what you have

1014
01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:14.679
<v Speaker 1>or haven't read. I'm just making the point that one

1015
01:05:14.719 --> 01:05:17.280
<v Speaker 1>thing that you'll notice is that it's a lot of guesswork.

1016
01:05:17.639 --> 01:05:19.719
<v Speaker 1>Remember when we had doctor James snap On and we

1017
01:05:19.719 --> 01:05:24.119
<v Speaker 1>were talking about the certain codices that have the giant

1018
01:05:24.199 --> 01:05:29.599
<v Speaker 1>space left out for the ending place of mark. So

1019
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:34.679
<v Speaker 1>he's speculating, with reasonable speculation that a lot of these

1020
01:05:34.760 --> 01:05:40.360
<v Speaker 1>codices had a parenthesis where there would fit the ending

1021
01:05:40.440 --> 01:05:45.960
<v Speaker 1>part of Marx Gospel, so he reasonably assumes that the

1022
01:05:46.119 --> 01:05:49.679
<v Speaker 1>ending part of Marx Gospel is supposed to be there.

1023
01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:53.159
<v Speaker 1>It's just missing in certain manuscripts because some of the

1024
01:05:53.239 --> 01:05:56.840
<v Speaker 1>copyists didn't know what to do with the ellipses. So

1025
01:05:57.320 --> 01:06:00.440
<v Speaker 1>there's a whole dispute that's perhaps solved on the of

1026
01:06:00.440 --> 01:06:03.840
<v Speaker 1>one speculation. But we don't know, right, because a lot

1027
01:06:03.880 --> 01:06:09.320
<v Speaker 1>of textual stuff is reconstructing things that nobody knows for sure.

1028
01:06:10.199 --> 01:06:13.559
<v Speaker 1>How much more with ancient texts like Dionysius, Right, we

1029
01:06:13.719 --> 01:06:16.639
<v Speaker 1>just don't know. So I'm not a Dinysius scholar. I

1030
01:06:16.639 --> 01:06:19.320
<v Speaker 1>don't claim to know about this, but I do trust

1031
01:06:19.360 --> 01:06:23.480
<v Speaker 1>the tradition of the church, and there are defenses of

1032
01:06:23.920 --> 01:06:28.480
<v Speaker 1>the argument. But before any of that, even the world

1033
01:06:28.639 --> 01:06:33.880
<v Speaker 1>authority on Dionysius, Bishop Alexander Golitzen, who does not believe

1034
01:06:33.880 --> 01:06:38.559
<v Speaker 1>that Dionysius is Dionysius, he accepts the pseudo thing. In

1035
01:06:38.559 --> 01:06:43.280
<v Speaker 1>his essays, he argues that the real origin of Dionysius's

1036
01:06:43.400 --> 01:06:45.719
<v Speaker 1>theology is Ezekiel and the.

1037
01:06:45.719 --> 01:06:48.920
<v Speaker 2>Chariot Merkava mysticism, which is true.

1038
01:06:49.519 --> 01:06:53.599
<v Speaker 1>So if the origin is not even Plotinus, then it

1039
01:06:53.639 --> 01:06:57.440
<v Speaker 1>really doesn't matter if there's a later similarity between Plotinian

1040
01:06:57.639 --> 01:07:02.679
<v Speaker 1>phraseology and imagery and celestial hierarchies or whatever. It doesn't

1041
01:07:02.679 --> 01:07:08.440
<v Speaker 1>really matter because nobody denies their similarities in understandings of

1042
01:07:08.480 --> 01:07:11.159
<v Speaker 1>this or that. But if you read the divine names,

1043
01:07:11.440 --> 01:07:16.039
<v Speaker 1>it's almost all citations from Scripture. Right, So he's talking

1044
01:07:16.039 --> 01:07:20.400
<v Speaker 1>to philosophers, trying to speak to them in philosophic language.

1045
01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:23.559
<v Speaker 1>But one thing that's really important about Orthodoxy is that

1046
01:07:24.000 --> 01:07:27.280
<v Speaker 1>a lot of these terms are not synonymous with the

1047
01:07:27.280 --> 01:07:28.400
<v Speaker 1>Hellenic meaning.

1048
01:07:28.159 --> 01:07:31.840
<v Speaker 2>Of the terms, right. Logos Logi a great example of this.

1049
01:07:32.119 --> 01:07:33.920
<v Speaker 2>When Saint Maximus.

1050
01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:38.320
<v Speaker 1>Utilizes the logi doctrine, which is from Plotinus, he alters

1051
01:07:38.360 --> 01:07:41.480
<v Speaker 1>it in three significant ways. He makes the logi to

1052
01:07:41.519 --> 01:07:45.519
<v Speaker 1>be free will actions of God. They're not emanations, they're

1053
01:07:45.519 --> 01:07:51.320
<v Speaker 1>not determined generations, they're necessary, and he makes them only

1054
01:07:51.360 --> 01:07:54.239
<v Speaker 1>relate to the created order, and thus God can freely

1055
01:07:54.280 --> 01:07:56.880
<v Speaker 1>do it, and he makes them personal. He makes them

1056
01:07:56.920 --> 01:08:01.800
<v Speaker 1>in hypostatic. So is the phrase logi in Plotinus?

1057
01:08:02.320 --> 01:08:02.599
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

1058
01:08:02.800 --> 01:08:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Is the phrase logi in Maximus?

1059
01:08:05.000 --> 01:08:05.280
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

1060
01:08:05.599 --> 01:08:10.079
<v Speaker 1>Does that mean that Maximus teaches Plutinian Neoplatonism. No, because

1061
01:08:10.079 --> 01:08:13.199
<v Speaker 1>he significantly alters it in three key areas that make

1062
01:08:13.239 --> 01:08:18.119
<v Speaker 1>it no longer Neoplatonic and now Christian because he makes

1063
01:08:18.159 --> 01:08:18.880
<v Speaker 1>them energies.

1064
01:08:23.439 --> 01:08:27.359
<v Speaker 5>Okay, next question is in two parts, quite a long one,

1065
01:08:27.520 --> 01:08:28.000
<v Speaker 5>so we'll.

1066
01:08:27.840 --> 01:08:29.279
<v Speaker 6>Do a first part in the second part.

1067
01:08:29.840 --> 01:08:34.720
<v Speaker 5>So in response to Catholics concerning the philio doctrine, why

1068
01:08:34.760 --> 01:08:37.159
<v Speaker 5>does this son proceeding from the will of the Father

1069
01:08:37.640 --> 01:08:41.600
<v Speaker 5>necessitate the son as created? If the Father could eternally

1070
01:08:41.680 --> 01:08:42.760
<v Speaker 5>will the son's.

1071
01:08:42.479 --> 01:08:48.319
<v Speaker 1>Existence, Because if you read Athenasius, that's an Aryan argument.

1072
01:08:48.560 --> 01:08:52.840
<v Speaker 1>Athanasius rejects the Aryan argument that the son is generated

1073
01:08:52.880 --> 01:08:56.399
<v Speaker 1>by will. He specifically states that he's not generated by will.

1074
01:08:56.720 --> 01:09:01.680
<v Speaker 1>He's generated directly of the Father's nature and there's no

1075
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:05.199
<v Speaker 1>interposition of will. This is what the Arians and then

1076
01:09:05.199 --> 01:09:07.960
<v Speaker 1>Eunomius argues, is that the son is a work of

1077
01:09:08.119 --> 01:09:08.920
<v Speaker 1>energy and will.

1078
01:09:09.279 --> 01:09:09.800
<v Speaker 2>No, he's not.

1079
01:09:10.039 --> 01:09:15.399
<v Speaker 1>He's a direct natural generation of the Father's essence. So

1080
01:09:16.800 --> 01:09:21.119
<v Speaker 1>it's the father as hypostasis with the divine nature. The

1081
01:09:21.119 --> 01:09:23.840
<v Speaker 1>divine nature is in hypostatized in the person of the Father,

1082
01:09:23.880 --> 01:09:28.359
<v Speaker 1>who generates the son of his nature, you see. So

1083
01:09:28.479 --> 01:09:32.159
<v Speaker 1>it's in hypostatic. Even the generation is in hyposthetic. It's

1084
01:09:32.159 --> 01:09:36.239
<v Speaker 1>of the Father's nature. So when the son is when

1085
01:09:36.279 --> 01:09:39.560
<v Speaker 1>the son is generated. It is not by will, because

1086
01:09:39.640 --> 01:09:43.760
<v Speaker 1>anything that's by will is common to the Godhead. It's

1087
01:09:43.800 --> 01:09:48.359
<v Speaker 1>common to all three persons, such as creating the world. Father, Son,

1088
01:09:48.439 --> 01:09:52.520
<v Speaker 1>and Spirit create the world, even redemption, even if there's

1089
01:09:52.840 --> 01:09:56.800
<v Speaker 1>different modes of the person's right. The Son becomes incarnate

1090
01:09:56.840 --> 01:09:59.159
<v Speaker 1>and dies, not the Father, not the Spirit. Even those

1091
01:09:59.239 --> 01:10:04.359
<v Speaker 1>actions are to the Godhead, but they are actualized or

1092
01:10:04.439 --> 01:10:08.199
<v Speaker 1>in h they are brought to reality in three unique

1093
01:10:08.399 --> 01:10:15.640
<v Speaker 1>modes of existence. So therefore the Spirit cannot be proceeding

1094
01:10:15.800 --> 01:10:19.840
<v Speaker 1>by will, because that would mean he's a creature. That

1095
01:10:19.920 --> 01:10:22.720
<v Speaker 1>would mean that the Father and the Son create the Spirit,

1096
01:10:22.760 --> 01:10:25.880
<v Speaker 1>because anything by will is common to the Godhead, and

1097
01:10:25.920 --> 01:10:28.640
<v Speaker 1>if it's common to the Godhead, then all three do it.

1098
01:10:28.920 --> 01:10:34.600
<v Speaker 1>Or this makes no sense, right, So that's just taking

1099
01:10:34.640 --> 01:10:37.359
<v Speaker 1>the Aryan argument about the Son being an act of

1100
01:10:37.399 --> 01:10:40.000
<v Speaker 1>God's will and applying it to the Holy Spirit. Now,

1101
01:10:40.039 --> 01:10:42.279
<v Speaker 1>the Holy Spirit would be an act of God's will

1102
01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:45.199
<v Speaker 1>and therefore a creature. That's why Athanasius says the sun

1103
01:10:45.319 --> 01:10:46.760
<v Speaker 1>is not generated by will.

1104
01:10:46.800 --> 01:10:50.800
<v Speaker 2>He's God of God, light of light. There's no interposition

1105
01:10:50.920 --> 01:10:51.359
<v Speaker 2>of will.

1106
01:10:55.239 --> 01:10:58.079
<v Speaker 5>And the second part of the question is if the

1107
01:10:58.119 --> 01:11:01.399
<v Speaker 5>spirit shays the same essence with the Father, and the

1108
01:11:01.439 --> 01:11:06.399
<v Speaker 5>Spirit is generated from the Father's essence nature. Why wouldn't

1109
01:11:06.399 --> 01:11:10.760
<v Speaker 5>the criticism that we force mainly that the spirit being

1110
01:11:10.760 --> 01:11:13.640
<v Speaker 5>a product of the Father's will and sharing the same

1111
01:11:13.680 --> 01:11:16.520
<v Speaker 5>will as the Father resulting in the spirit.

1112
01:11:16.840 --> 01:11:18.520
<v Speaker 1>How can it be a product of will if it

1113
01:11:18.560 --> 01:11:21.640
<v Speaker 1>shares the same will, It makes no sense. The spirit

1114
01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:25.039
<v Speaker 1>is a product of the spiration of the Father, not

1115
01:11:25.199 --> 01:11:28.720
<v Speaker 1>the will of the Father. Because father, son and Spirit

1116
01:11:28.840 --> 01:11:33.720
<v Speaker 1>share one will. Will is a faculty of nature, not person.

1117
01:11:34.479 --> 01:11:37.119
<v Speaker 1>So all of this nonsense, and that this is directly

1118
01:11:37.159 --> 01:11:41.479
<v Speaker 1>from Ludwig Ought in his Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma. He says,

1119
01:11:41.479 --> 01:11:45.199
<v Speaker 1>the Holy Spirit proceeds by will. No, he doesn't, No

1120
01:11:45.279 --> 01:11:47.359
<v Speaker 1>more than the Son is generated by will.

1121
01:11:48.199 --> 01:11:48.560
<v Speaker 2>Why not?

1122
01:11:48.800 --> 01:11:51.119
<v Speaker 1>Because the Father, son, and Spirit have one will. They

1123
01:11:51.119 --> 01:11:53.399
<v Speaker 1>all share the same will and nobody. But if they

1124
01:11:53.399 --> 01:11:56.479
<v Speaker 1>all share the same will, then nobody would would affirm

1125
01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:59.439
<v Speaker 1>that the Holy Spirit wills himself? Right, he doesn't generate

1126
01:11:59.520 --> 01:12:06.199
<v Speaker 1>or he does process himself. Therefore he cannot proceed by will.

1127
01:12:06.359 --> 01:12:07.880
<v Speaker 1>It's a fundamental blunder.

1128
01:12:10.159 --> 01:12:14.800
<v Speaker 5>Next question is several Western scholars claim Epistles one, three,

1129
01:12:14.920 --> 01:12:19.199
<v Speaker 5>three John forderies developed by the medieval Church how can

1130
01:12:19.239 --> 01:12:21.000
<v Speaker 5>we debunk this nonsensical theory.

1131
01:12:21.079 --> 01:12:24.199
<v Speaker 1>Well, I can debunk that right away because the Church

1132
01:12:24.279 --> 01:12:27.359
<v Speaker 1>fathers cite these epistles. So that's ludicrous. I mean, I

1133
01:12:27.399 --> 01:12:31.760
<v Speaker 1>can give you read any of the major church fathers

1134
01:12:31.840 --> 01:12:34.960
<v Speaker 1>will include the Catholic epistles in their canon. Their list

1135
01:12:35.039 --> 01:12:39.960
<v Speaker 1>of the canon Athanasius includes going from Memory the Catholic Epistles,

1136
01:12:40.039 --> 01:12:42.800
<v Speaker 1>So that's on its face ludicrous that it would be

1137
01:12:42.880 --> 01:12:47.079
<v Speaker 1>a medieval invention. That's preposterous. You could debunk that in

1138
01:12:47.119 --> 01:12:48.479
<v Speaker 1>about two minutes with Google.

1139
01:12:49.800 --> 01:12:51.000
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

1140
01:12:51.239 --> 01:12:54.479
<v Speaker 5>Next question is for someone looking to convert to Orthodoxy,

1141
01:12:55.199 --> 01:12:58.079
<v Speaker 5>what's with the schism with Constantinople and Moscow?

1142
01:12:58.199 --> 01:12:59.279
<v Speaker 6>Where can I learn about it?

1143
01:12:59.359 --> 01:13:01.720
<v Speaker 5>And would it refer on which jurisdiction I joined?

1144
01:13:03.520 --> 01:13:05.439
<v Speaker 2>Could you repeat the last part you're looking to convert in?

1145
01:13:05.479 --> 01:13:09.600
<v Speaker 6>What he wants to know?

1146
01:13:10.000 --> 01:13:14.079
<v Speaker 5>What is the circumstance with the schism with Constantinople in

1147
01:13:14.199 --> 01:13:15.920
<v Speaker 5>Moscow and where can.

1148
01:13:15.800 --> 01:13:16.600
<v Speaker 6>He learn about it?

1149
01:13:17.640 --> 01:13:20.800
<v Speaker 1>Well, a lot of what I've talked about in tonight's

1150
01:13:20.800 --> 01:13:25.319
<v Speaker 1>stuff geopolitically will relate to that, right, So we're not

1151
01:13:25.479 --> 01:13:27.560
<v Speaker 1>I mean, we're talking about stuff in the fifties and sixties,

1152
01:13:27.560 --> 01:13:31.439
<v Speaker 1>and tonight's talk but the same issues are what undergird

1153
01:13:31.600 --> 01:13:38.840
<v Speaker 1>today's problems between Moscow and Constantinople. So the divide there

1154
01:13:39.039 --> 01:13:42.439
<v Speaker 1>has progressed to a certain point in canonical church discipline

1155
01:13:42.439 --> 01:13:43.199
<v Speaker 1>where there's a.

1156
01:13:43.159 --> 01:13:44.359
<v Speaker 2>Removal of communion.

1157
01:13:44.840 --> 01:13:50.640
<v Speaker 1>That's the stage right before formal excommunication. So we would

1158
01:13:50.720 --> 01:13:53.640
<v Speaker 1>not yet say that everybody in communion with Bartholomew has

1159
01:13:53.680 --> 01:13:57.199
<v Speaker 1>lost grace, but we are at the stage before the

1160
01:13:57.239 --> 01:13:59.399
<v Speaker 1>next step would be formal excommunication.

1161
01:13:59.520 --> 01:14:02.159
<v Speaker 2>At that point point we would say that you have

1162
01:14:02.239 --> 01:14:08.279
<v Speaker 2>to leave ep churches and go arch churches.

1163
01:14:09.159 --> 01:14:11.520
<v Speaker 1>We don't necessarily say that yet, but you can already

1164
01:14:11.560 --> 01:14:15.760
<v Speaker 1>see the degradation of the go arch churches in the US.

1165
01:14:15.840 --> 01:14:18.640
<v Speaker 1>They're pretty bad. Not every one of them, but some

1166
01:14:18.680 --> 01:14:25.960
<v Speaker 1>of them. So long story short, find the best church

1167
01:14:26.039 --> 01:14:29.479
<v Speaker 1>around you by visiting all of them and see which

1168
01:14:29.479 --> 01:14:30.560
<v Speaker 1>one is the most solid.

1169
01:14:30.720 --> 01:14:31.520
<v Speaker 2>That's the best solution.

1170
01:14:34.000 --> 01:14:34.319
<v Speaker 6>Okay.

1171
01:14:34.520 --> 01:14:38.600
<v Speaker 5>Next question is it's a historical question. What would you

1172
01:14:38.640 --> 01:14:41.560
<v Speaker 5>say to those who seek to undermine the saintly character

1173
01:14:41.720 --> 01:14:46.000
<v Speaker 5>of Sincerial of Alexandria by accusing him of having something

1174
01:14:46.039 --> 01:14:48.039
<v Speaker 5>to do with the murder which was carried out by

1175
01:14:48.079 --> 01:14:49.479
<v Speaker 5>a mob against Hypatia.

1176
01:14:49.920 --> 01:14:51.319
<v Speaker 2>Well, I think it's a Catholic.

1177
01:14:51.720 --> 01:14:55.119
<v Speaker 1>I saw a Catholic article that debunks this pretty pretty easily.

1178
01:14:56.520 --> 01:14:59.760
<v Speaker 1>I would just I don't even remember where I found

1179
01:14:59.760 --> 01:15:07.439
<v Speaker 1>that article. But also there's a book. Just read John

1180
01:15:07.479 --> 01:15:12.600
<v Speaker 1>mcguckin's book. I think he covers this as well. So yeah,

1181
01:15:14.279 --> 01:15:15.800
<v Speaker 1>off the top of my head, I don't remember what

1182
01:15:15.840 --> 01:15:18.119
<v Speaker 1>the solution is. It's getting late. I'm getting kind of tired.

1183
01:15:18.199 --> 01:15:21.479
<v Speaker 1>So is there any more any more easy ones? Maybe

1184
01:15:21.479 --> 01:15:23.399
<v Speaker 1>we can we can call it to a closer.

1185
01:15:24.720 --> 01:15:28.199
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, there's there's some short ones. If the father and

1186
01:15:28.279 --> 01:15:30.600
<v Speaker 5>son of different person's with the same essence, like a

1187
01:15:30.680 --> 01:15:34.039
<v Speaker 5>human father and son, what differentiates is from polytheism?

1188
01:15:34.960 --> 01:15:38.680
<v Speaker 1>No, No, the analogy is made between a father and

1189
01:15:38.760 --> 01:15:42.079
<v Speaker 1>a son, just a show at the level of nature, right,

1190
01:15:42.399 --> 01:15:44.680
<v Speaker 1>the father gives birth to a son who possesses the

1191
01:15:44.680 --> 01:15:48.319
<v Speaker 1>same nature. That's all the analogies intended to show. Obviously,

1192
01:15:48.399 --> 01:15:52.239
<v Speaker 1>humans are two distinct beings. The father and the son

1193
01:15:52.279 --> 01:15:56.960
<v Speaker 1>are not separate, distinct beings. So I'm not extending the

1194
01:15:57.039 --> 01:16:00.239
<v Speaker 1>level of analogy beyond just possessing the same nature.

1195
01:16:05.680 --> 01:16:10.319
<v Speaker 5>This is one did Saint Justin think the son's beginning

1196
01:16:10.520 --> 01:16:12.199
<v Speaker 5>was by the will of the father?

1197
01:16:12.359 --> 01:16:13.399
<v Speaker 6>What do we make of that.

1198
01:16:15.359 --> 01:16:18.479
<v Speaker 1>I think that there's one statement in Justin that people

1199
01:16:18.520 --> 01:16:22.039
<v Speaker 1>call into question from memory, but I think there's also

1200
01:16:22.119 --> 01:16:25.640
<v Speaker 1>other statements in Saint Justin where he seems to pretty

1201
01:16:25.640 --> 01:16:31.600
<v Speaker 1>consistently uphold the eternal generation. But there is a sense

1202
01:16:31.640 --> 01:16:33.720
<v Speaker 1>in which, for example, we were talking about this the

1203
01:16:33.800 --> 01:16:34.199
<v Speaker 1>other day in.

1204
01:16:34.199 --> 01:16:39.600
<v Speaker 2>The discord with Lewis, you could in a like, if.

1205
01:16:40.840 --> 01:16:45.439
<v Speaker 1>There's a term for this type of willing, it's you

1206
01:16:45.479 --> 01:16:49.319
<v Speaker 1>could call it something like willing by acquiescence. Like if

1207
01:16:49.319 --> 01:16:52.439
<v Speaker 1>I have a son and he's the direct offering of

1208
01:16:52.479 --> 01:16:56.000
<v Speaker 1>my nature, I'm also at the same time, in a

1209
01:16:56.079 --> 01:16:57.840
<v Speaker 1>sense willing him to be right.

1210
01:16:58.399 --> 01:17:00.600
<v Speaker 2>So just because I I'm.

1211
01:17:01.399 --> 01:17:05.840
<v Speaker 1>I'm agreeing with what happens according to nature, doesn't mean

1212
01:17:05.880 --> 01:17:08.680
<v Speaker 1>that I am causing it to happen by will.

1213
01:17:09.039 --> 01:17:09.880
<v Speaker 2>Does that make sense?

1214
01:17:13.640 --> 01:17:14.800
<v Speaker 6>Do you want to go any further?

1215
01:17:15.680 --> 01:17:15.800
<v Speaker 5>Uh?

1216
01:17:16.640 --> 01:17:17.119
<v Speaker 2>How many more?

1217
01:17:17.239 --> 01:17:17.439
<v Speaker 10>Left?

1218
01:17:18.479 --> 01:17:19.039
<v Speaker 5>A few?

1219
01:17:20.560 --> 01:17:22.399
<v Speaker 10>There's also a couple of super chats Jake.

1220
01:17:22.720 --> 01:17:27.640
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's see. So all I see is one

1221
01:17:27.680 --> 01:17:31.960
<v Speaker 1>super chat from Nico. It says, thank you, Jay, You're welcome, Nico,

1222
01:17:32.239 --> 01:17:33.039
<v Speaker 1>much appreciated.

1223
01:17:35.600 --> 01:17:42.800
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, we have like eight more questions. We can just

1224
01:17:42.840 --> 01:17:46.920
<v Speaker 5>call it here and everyone write down your questions. Okay,

1225
01:17:46.920 --> 01:17:49.119
<v Speaker 5>So you don't have to get them and ask another time.

1226
01:17:49.199 --> 01:17:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Well yeah, I'll just continue in the discord for the

1227
01:17:51.960 --> 01:17:52.239
<v Speaker 1>last
