WEBVTT

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<v Speaker 1>Special Operations, Cobert.

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<v Speaker 2>SPI and.

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<v Speaker 1>The Team House with your host Jack Murphy and David bark.

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<v Speaker 3>Hey.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone, Welcome to episode three hundred and sixty seven of

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<v Speaker 1>The Teamhouse. I'm Jack here with Dave and our guest

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<v Speaker 1>joining us in studio is Seth Harrp. He is himself

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<v Speaker 1>an Army veteran and also the author of the Fort

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<v Speaker 1>Bragg Cartel, Drug Trafficking and Murder and Special Forces, a

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<v Speaker 1>book that in recent weeks has made quite a splash

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<v Speaker 1>out there and arrived at some controversy.

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<v Speaker 2>But I'm glad that is getting the attention.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a book that needs to be read, and it

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<v Speaker 1>needs to get the attention, and hopefully some of these

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<v Speaker 1>things get addressed down there.

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<v Speaker 2>But anyway, let's jump right into it.

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<v Speaker 1>Seth, I want to start off just asking you a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit about kind of how you came up, how

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<v Speaker 1>you grew up, what took you towards the army and

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<v Speaker 1>your military service and then eventually journalism.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure, nothing too special. I was an Army reservist in

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<v Speaker 2>college at the University of Texas and was called up

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<v Speaker 2>to serve when the Iraq War started, did one tour

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<v Speaker 2>in Iraq, and then wrote out the rest of my

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<v Speaker 2>time in the reserves. I actually was a lawyer. I

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<v Speaker 2>practiced law for a few years and then was always

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<v Speaker 2>really passionate about journalism. I had written for my college newspaper,

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<v Speaker 2>including Wallace deployed to a Rock. I was writing for

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<v Speaker 2>the Daily Texan, and that was a really rewarding experience.

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to get back to that, and so at

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<v Speaker 2>a certain point I actually went back to school for journalism,

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<v Speaker 2>and it's a job I'm doing for about the last

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<v Speaker 2>ten years now. It's been really fun.

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<v Speaker 1>And have you always covered national security stuff or like,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just a little curious, like what kind of brought

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<v Speaker 1>you towards this subject matter.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah. One of the fact that I had been in

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<v Speaker 2>Iraq was a way that I could get assignments, especially

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<v Speaker 2>to cover the war in Syria, because at the time

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<v Speaker 2>I graduated from journalism school in twenty sixteen, and as

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<v Speaker 2>you know, because you were over there, a lot a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of journalists left Syria after James Foley was beheaded

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<v Speaker 2>because the security environment was so poor, and the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that I had been in Iraq was a way for

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<v Speaker 2>me to get assignments in Syria. And so I have

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<v Speaker 2>always focused on the either foreign wars or the military

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<v Speaker 2>things of that nature.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so let's talk about the Fort Bragg cartel. You know, specifically,

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<v Speaker 1>what kind of tipped you to this subject that you

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<v Speaker 1>know Fort Bragg was an area that you wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>focus on.

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<v Speaker 2>How did that come about? I just read an article

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<v Speaker 2>in the New York Times on December fourth, twenty twenty

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<v Speaker 2>that these two Special Operations soldiers have found murdered on

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<v Speaker 2>Fort Bragg, and that one of them, Billy Levine, had

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<v Speaker 2>previously killed guy in his house and they had been

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<v Speaker 2>ruled to justified homicide. I then read a blog post

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<v Speaker 2>that you wrote, Jack that identified Billy as a Delta

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<v Speaker 2>Force soldier. Yeah. That was really crucial because the entire

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<v Speaker 2>time I had been reporting on the war and the military,

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<v Speaker 2>and even serving in the Army myself, I had never

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<v Speaker 2>heard of a Delta Force guy being in the news

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<v Speaker 2>for any reason. They did keep that pretty quiet. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>So that was at the point in which I realized, Okay,

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<v Speaker 2>there's there's got to be a story here.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and there's a little aside on that. I had

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of years later after I wrote that, I

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<v Speaker 1>had a guy I served with in Special Forces who

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<v Speaker 1>went on to become a delta operator hit me up

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<v Speaker 1>out of the blue hand spoken to him in years.

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<v Speaker 2>Hey, you need to change the title of that article. Man.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh wow, that's that's clickbait. You can't write that I wrote.

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<v Speaker 1>Do Delta Force operators have a license to kill?

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 1>It's like, dude, you read that whole thing and that's

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<v Speaker 1>your takeaway from that.

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<v Speaker 2>Come on in your interview with Mark Leschinger's family was

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<v Speaker 2>also a really important inspiration because you did that before

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<v Speaker 2>I had even got off the ground, so you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I I saw from what you had reported that there

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<v Speaker 2>was some kind of cover up there, so that was

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<v Speaker 2>an important part of it too. And I just I've

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<v Speaker 2>been in touch with the with the Lushakers or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>they're with Nicole Rick and Tammy maybe and Laura Aleshiker

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<v Speaker 2>who since remarried. I've been in touch with them since

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<v Speaker 2>since then. I'm glad you did. I'm glad that you

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<v Speaker 2>got to talk to them.

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<v Speaker 1>And I mean the stuff that Mark's mother and widow

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<v Speaker 1>and sister told me are like things that well, they

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<v Speaker 1>stick with you, as you know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And now the poor girl who witnessed

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<v Speaker 2>the killing, who identify in the book by a pseudonym.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, she's kind of grown up now. That was

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<v Speaker 2>twenty eighteen, so she's, you know, she's a teenager and

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<v Speaker 2>she is writing about this. She's written an essay that

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<v Speaker 2>you know, recalls it because she witnessed her father murdered

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<v Speaker 2>right in front by Billy Levine. So it's it's a

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<v Speaker 2>pretty heavy story.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's kind of dive into that a little bit, because

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<v Speaker 1>Billy Levine, I guess you could say, is kind of

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<v Speaker 1>the focal point of your book, a sort of jumping

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<v Speaker 1>off point. Let's start off and talk about you know

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<v Speaker 1>him and who was his best friend, Mark Leeshakar.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Billy was a Delta Force operator. He had done

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<v Speaker 2>fourteen deployments. He had been in since shortly before two

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<v Speaker 2>thousand and one, shortly before nine to eleven. That is,

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<v Speaker 2>he was a guy who had had a severe PTSD,

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<v Speaker 2>moral injury, drug addiction, a lot of the things that

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<v Speaker 2>creep up on guys that are in that community after

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<v Speaker 2>lots of deployments, all that was going on with them.

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<v Speaker 2>His best friend, Mark was a nineteenth Group Green Beret.

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<v Speaker 2>So he was I still to this day don't know

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<v Speaker 2>exactly what he was doing in Bragg. He wasn't on

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<v Speaker 2>active duty, and his group was not at in North Carolina.

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<v Speaker 2>It's in Washington. So I believe he had some kind

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<v Speaker 2>of desk job at Use of Sock, but they haven't

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<v Speaker 2>confirmed it. But in any case, he was at Fort Bragg.

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<v Speaker 2>He's working there. He and Billy had known each other

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<v Speaker 2>from when Lesha was going through the Q course, and

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<v Speaker 2>one thing they really shared in common, or one thing

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<v Speaker 2>that seems to have been a reason why they bonded,

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<v Speaker 2>is you know, they both were ensted using drugs, like

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<v Speaker 2>hard drugs frequently, and you know, at a certain point

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<v Speaker 2>they got out of control. And the first two chapters

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<v Speaker 2>of my book are dedicated to this trip they took

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<v Speaker 2>to Disney World. You already know this whole story. But

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<v Speaker 2>they take their daughters, they both have young daughters, they

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<v Speaker 2>take them to Disney World. The whole time they're at

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<v Speaker 2>Disney World, they're drinking and doing drugs, and Mark evidently

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<v Speaker 2>ingested some bath salts. I don't know if he went

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<v Speaker 2>out and bought that salt. More likely he ingested some

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<v Speaker 2>ecstasy or something that was cut with you know, fillers,

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<v Speaker 2>and he started hallucinating. He was convinced that the car

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<v Speaker 2>was being followed that the car was bugged, and this

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<v Speaker 2>really started to get on Billy's nerves. Billy had really

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<v Speaker 2>bad anger issues, as also can happen to people that

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<v Speaker 2>have been exposed repeatedly to combat, and he was really

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<v Speaker 2>getting annoyed by Mark's you know, Shenanigan's long story short,

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<v Speaker 2>he ends up shooting and killing Mark right in front

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<v Speaker 2>of his house, or right in the foyer of his

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<v Speaker 2>house when they get back to Fayetteville, right in front

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<v Speaker 2>of his daughter who had just let him in the door.

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<v Speaker 2>And the important thing is that the civilian authorities and

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<v Speaker 2>the military authorities at that point jumped in and covered

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<v Speaker 2>this whole thing up and made the case go away

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<v Speaker 2>and papered it over as a justified homicide when you

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<v Speaker 2>can debate over whether it should have been like first

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<v Speaker 2>degree murder, second degree manslaughter, or any of those charges

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<v Speaker 2>I could see appropriate depending upon the prosecutorial decisions. But

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<v Speaker 2>for them to just say it was self defense, that's

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<v Speaker 2>a cover up because Mark at the time of his

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<v Speaker 2>death was unarmed and he didn't even have a screwdriver,

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<v Speaker 2>which was Billy's cover story that he had come out,

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<v Speaker 2>and when they rolled the body, there was no screwdriver. Right.

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<v Speaker 2>The other thing is the bullet fragments under the carpet.

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<v Speaker 1>Bullet fragments don't get under the carpet unless you're doing

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<v Speaker 1>the coupe de grass.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, right, And the ballistic evidence shows that he

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<v Speaker 2>shot Mark from multiple angles and they stood over him

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<v Speaker 2>and fired to kill shot, which exactly is what they're

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<v Speaker 2>trained to do.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's sadly what the daughter described seeing after Billy died.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, she started talking about it for the first time. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>That murder, of course, is just that was covered up,

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<v Speaker 2>was just a prelude to all the rest of the

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<v Speaker 2>events that happened in the book. I start off with

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<v Speaker 2>it to show the type of impunity that these guys

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<v Speaker 2>have and the link to which the command will go

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<v Speaker 2>to keep if you're in Delta force, that they'll keep

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<v Speaker 2>you out of the news.

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<v Speaker 1>So yeah, let's talk a little bit about that, because,

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<v Speaker 1>as you point out, there's never a trial, There was

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<v Speaker 1>never a real inquiry. As far as I can tell,

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<v Speaker 1>a police sergeant wrote a report said self defense and

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<v Speaker 1>that was it.

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<v Speaker 2>That was the end of it. Yeah, it all just

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<v Speaker 2>sort of went away.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, despite the family asking some questions, and I mean

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<v Speaker 1>It's very weird.

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<v Speaker 2>The way it all went down. It is. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 2>I recently obtained a copy of Billy Levine's memoir. Someone

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<v Speaker 2>that he had been in rehab with in Texas sent

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<v Speaker 2>me a copy. I wrote in the book that Billy

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<v Speaker 2>had been working on this document at the time of

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<v Speaker 2>his death, but I had never seen it. Someone actually

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<v Speaker 2>sent it to me, and it was incredible to see

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<v Speaker 2>to read Billy narrating his downward spiral. And one of

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<v Speaker 2>the things he talks about is that shooting. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>among the details that he that he goes into are

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<v Speaker 2>exactly how he shot Mark. You know, he even says

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<v Speaker 2>he almost takes pride in it. It's strange, he almost

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<v Speaker 2>takes pride in how, you know, efficiently he dispatched Mark,

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<v Speaker 2>because he One little bit of it that I'm recalling

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<v Speaker 2>is that, you know, he said that as he stood

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<v Speaker 2>over him having killed him, he was prepared to shoot

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<v Speaker 2>him again in the head. Small detail, but you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it made an impression. Oh, you know, the reason I

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<v Speaker 2>brought that up, the reason why I wanted to mention

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<v Speaker 2>it was not that particular detail, but rather what happened

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<v Speaker 2>when he got to the police station. Because Billy writes

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<v Speaker 2>about that too, and you know, it was incredible by

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<v Speaker 2>his account, the sort of entitlement that he showed, and

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<v Speaker 2>he was like outraged that they had even questioned him.

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<v Speaker 2>He was, by his own account, was telling them things

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<v Speaker 2>like you know, do you know who I am? And

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<v Speaker 2>was resentful of the fact that they had even brought

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<v Speaker 2>him to the police station. And he seemed to expect

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<v Speaker 2>everyone to just take his word for it that it

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<v Speaker 2>was self defense, even though, as you know, he told

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<v Speaker 2>his direct superior in Delta Force originally that Mark had

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<v Speaker 2>committed suicide, and then he told a nine one one

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<v Speaker 2>dispatcher that it was stranger who had broken into his house.

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<v Speaker 2>But he still was like offended at these.

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<v Speaker 1>Recover stories at a minimum, h so, but he shocked

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<v Speaker 1>that the police are even asking him these questions.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's the attitude that comes across in the

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<v Speaker 2>in his account of it that he wrote. Maybe he

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<v Speaker 2>behaved himself more professionally at the time, but it didn't

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<v Speaker 2>seem like it the way he wrote about it. I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>he was like pulling rank is the wrong word because

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<v Speaker 2>it wasn't rank. But he was just playing that Delta

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<v Speaker 2>carte hard with the with the sheriff's deputies.

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<v Speaker 1>What else did Billy have to say in this memoir

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<v Speaker 1>that he wrote.

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<v Speaker 2>So much I'm still just processing. I only read it

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<v Speaker 2>two days ago. But he was even crazier than I thought,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, in the book, I'm not in the business

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<v Speaker 2>of portraying any of these guys as monsters, like that's

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<v Speaker 2>just not person of all, because I've met all their

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<v Speaker 2>family members and talked to them, and I think that

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<v Speaker 2>they have done monstrous things, including Mark Leshcheker by a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of accounts. You know, the reason he couldn't make

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<v Speaker 2>it through Delta's election was because he had committed certain

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<v Speaker 2>war crimes in Afghanistan. Still Levine as well, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>he had done terrible things. But I still try to

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<v Speaker 2>portray them as much as possible as humans and show

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<v Speaker 2>like they didn't start out this way. It was the

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<v Speaker 2>result of external factors acting on them to turn them

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<v Speaker 2>this way. But reading this memoir that Levine wrote, I

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<v Speaker 2>realized that he was even crazier than I thought. Like

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't him he was way off the deep end.

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<v Speaker 1>Man.

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<v Speaker 2>He was so paranoid and violent and aggressive, Like you

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<v Speaker 2>can just feel the anger and aggression on every page

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<v Speaker 2>of the stuff that he wrote.

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<v Speaker 1>And as you go through talking about Billy's trajectory and experience,

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<v Speaker 1>you kind of uncover in the book that there's like

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<v Speaker 1>this larger theme about criminality around Fort Bragg, that while

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<v Speaker 1>Billy's situation is fairly extreme and I guess you could

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<v Speaker 1>say abnormal, but it's not that abnormal. I mean, you

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<v Speaker 1>uncover a whole string of murders, rapes, drug trafficking.

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<v Speaker 2>Around the base. It is apparently is a practice on

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<v Speaker 2>part of the Special Forces Command as well as the

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<v Speaker 2>District Attorney of Cumberland County that these guys get special

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<v Speaker 2>treatment when they turn up in handcuffs. And you know,

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<v Speaker 2>it's what the motives for that are as a matter

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<v Speaker 2>of conjecture, but I assume it's to protect the Special

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<v Speaker 2>Forces from embarrassment, because reporters will jump all over stories

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<v Speaker 2>if they relate to the Special Forces, So that dynamic

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<v Speaker 2>is definitely in play. And yeah, I showcase after case

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<v Speaker 2>in the book of guys who are accused of murder, rape,

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<v Speaker 2>drug trafficking, what have you, who are just immediately let

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<v Speaker 2>off the hook. I mean there are exceptions.

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<v Speaker 1>Of course, Dan Gould is in prison right for smuggling

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<v Speaker 1>cocaine from Columbia in a punching bag.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, two of them, Yeah yeah, a million dollars

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<v Speaker 2>worth of cocaine. You know. But I interviewed the officer,

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<v Speaker 2>the army officer who is at the DEA station or

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<v Speaker 2>at the US embassy rather in Bogota, who caught who

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<v Speaker 2>got wind of this scheme, and he said he had

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<v Speaker 2>a really hard time convincing the DEA to investigate, and

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<v Speaker 2>you know, he couldn't even get them interested in it

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<v Speaker 2>until he finally brought them the punching bags and put

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<v Speaker 2>them through an X ray machine and it clearly showed

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<v Speaker 2>them a full pack full of cod.

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<v Speaker 1>So I want to take a minute today to tell

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<v Speaker 1>you guys about the perfect gene. I've been wearing them

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00:14:29.639 --> 00:14:32.000
<v Speaker 1>for a few weeks now and really enjoy them, and

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<v Speaker 1>I just want to share it with our audience. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>sometimes jeans have this problem where you know, you guys

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<v Speaker 1>all have seen these skinny jeans that they like crush

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00:14:41.159 --> 00:14:43.480
<v Speaker 1>your balls and you know it's just not comfortable to

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00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:46.360
<v Speaker 1>wear or the other way around. Jeans are like too baggy.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, you have this sort of like diaper in

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00:14:48.480 --> 00:14:52.360
<v Speaker 1>your ass area looks like. So there are these problems

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<v Speaker 1>that you know, different fits of different types of genes

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<v Speaker 1>have and the perfect Gene strives to fix that, both

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00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:04.559
<v Speaker 1>the fit but also the mobility, the maneuverability. It has

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<v Speaker 1>a stretchy fabric, like they say it's like yoga ready,

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, I would say it's athletics ready. You know,

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00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:15.639
<v Speaker 1>moving furniture, doing things around the house. You're not going

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<v Speaker 1>to have that like super tight, like constricted fit that

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<v Speaker 1>you feel like you're not gonna.

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<v Speaker 2>Be able to move around in.

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<v Speaker 1>And there are over four hundred thousand people out there

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<v Speaker 1>them can be wrong. I hope you guys will go

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<v Speaker 1>spread on on the subway if that's your thing. So

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<v Speaker 1>the Perfect Gene is great for all kinds of different environments,

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<v Speaker 2>You talk about.

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<v Speaker 1>Aaron Scanlon is another one, allegedly raped by Christopher Vallejo

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<v Speaker 1>and Chrysto Christo. The unfortunately we know sex crimes happen

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<v Speaker 1>in America doesn't shock any of us per se, but

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<v Speaker 1>the way her trial was handled was a circus, like

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<v Speaker 1>totally like off the wall inappropriate. Can you tell us

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<v Speaker 1>a little bit about kind of? And also the other

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<v Speaker 1>thing too, is that I find quite often is how

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<v Speaker 1>when one of these cases comes down, the local police

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<v Speaker 1>department and the military police will bounce it around between

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<v Speaker 1>each other like pointing fingers in both directions to try

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<v Speaker 1>to I don't know avoid having to address the issue.

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<v Speaker 2>M Yeah, you know, talking about rape trials and stuff

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<v Speaker 2>and sexual assault in the military. That brings up a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of toxicity, especially among the people that are like

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<v Speaker 2>consuming these stories and debating them on the internet. But

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<v Speaker 2>Aaron Scanlon was an army officer who after this encounter

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<v Speaker 2>with Crystobo Viejo, she immediately told several people that she

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<v Speaker 2>had been raped, Like within minutes she told people, I

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<v Speaker 2>feel like I just got raped. She also went directly

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<v Speaker 2>to a hospital and had a rape kit done. She

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<v Speaker 2>did everything by the book and reporting that rape. She

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<v Speaker 2>has text messages with Krystobal Vajejo where she accuses him

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<v Speaker 2>directly of rape and he doesn't respond. My point is

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<v Speaker 2>that people may not like this, It may not like

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<v Speaker 2>that I bring attention to some things like that, but nevertheless,

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<v Speaker 2>this is real what she didn't have any reason to

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<v Speaker 2>lie about this. People want to impune not necessarily her,

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<v Speaker 2>but women who are in this situation. They want to

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<v Speaker 2>impune their motives or say that whatever. But in this case,

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<v Speaker 2>it really wasn't that way from the evidence. And Chris Bayeho,

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<v Speaker 2>he was charged with rape. But as we're discussing at

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<v Speaker 2>a certain point, the Special Forces Command steps in, approaches

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<v Speaker 2>the district attorney and they work out a deal so

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<v Speaker 2>that this is the charges in civilian court. Go Away

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<v Speaker 2>gets transferred to Fort Bragg to be carried out in

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<v Speaker 2>the under a court martial goes on and on, like

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<v Speaker 2>the time is just dragging on, and then they finally

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<v Speaker 2>have a trial and then surprise, you know, it's an acquittal.

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<v Speaker 2>So that's another case of what I describe as a

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<v Speaker 2>cover up, because I won't go into details now, but

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<v Speaker 2>you know, I talk about a lot of it regularities

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<v Speaker 2>in that trial, and there's one I'll call out in particular,

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<v Speaker 2>just like it's funny how in the cases where the

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<v Speaker 2>military doesn't actually want a conviction, that the prosecutor who

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<v Speaker 2>gets put on the case is someone who's never tried

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<v Speaker 2>a case before. That happened in the Eddie Gallagher case. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>it seems to have been some contingency there where the

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<v Speaker 2>lead prosecutor actually had to deal with some situations. But

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<v Speaker 2>Eddie Gallagher was prosecuted by a guy who had never

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<v Speaker 2>tried a murder trial before. That would almost never happen

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<v Speaker 2>in the civilian court. You would never allow prosecutor who'd

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<v Speaker 2>never done a capital case to try a capital case.

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<v Speaker 2>Same thing happened in the case of Vaejo. The prosecutors

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<v Speaker 2>that they put on that case it was their first

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<v Speaker 2>trial ever, so and they got schooled by his civilian

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<v Speaker 2>attorney who has defended lots and lots of capital cases.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's so much to go into. I don't

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<v Speaker 2>even know where to begin.

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<v Speaker 1>Another example you talk about, there's a very chapter in

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<v Speaker 1>your book about the cover girls who work in the

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<v Speaker 1>mission support troupe and some sexual harassment allegations at Delta Force,

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<v Speaker 1>and I mean that was it was pretty gross to

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<v Speaker 1>read that that, you know, somebody allegedly called this woman

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<v Speaker 1>into her into his office and had her bend over

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<v Speaker 1>to inspect her underwear, and like, what in the world

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<v Speaker 1>is going on here?

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<v Speaker 2>Guys want to deny that, you know, I see all

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<v Speaker 2>the comments that that's one they really jumped on that.

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<v Speaker 2>Politico excerpted that chapter of the book, and so a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of people, you know, have been jumping on that

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<v Speaker 2>to say that this environment is much more professional than

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<v Speaker 2>I portrayed. All I can say is, y'all should have

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<v Speaker 2>talked to me when I was reporting the book and

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<v Speaker 2>I was calling all you guys and trying to get

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<v Speaker 2>you to comment. I would have happily included those statements,

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<v Speaker 2>but I'm left to go on not just Courtney Williams's testimony.

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<v Speaker 2>I would have never published something that was single source.

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<v Speaker 2>I reached out to one of her colleagues who's identified

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<v Speaker 2>in the book by a pseudonym, without Courtney knowing about

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<v Speaker 2>the other woman, and vice versa, kept him completely sat

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<v Speaker 2>interviewed them completely separately, and to the extent that their

399
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<v Speaker 2>stories matched. That's what I published in the book. So, yeah,

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00:21:07.720 --> 00:21:09.599
<v Speaker 2>that's what I have to say about those criticisms.

401
00:21:09.920 --> 00:21:12.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and you know, I know what you're talking about.

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00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:16.839
<v Speaker 1>And I watched, you know, Brent's response to your book

403
00:21:16.920 --> 00:21:19.279
<v Speaker 1>and what was in the article, And I mean, I

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<v Speaker 1>believe Brent's telling his truth that he would not ever

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<v Speaker 1>treat a woman in the unit like that. I believe

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00:21:24.640 --> 00:21:27.799
<v Speaker 1>him when he's saying that. But I mean, if you

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00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:30.000
<v Speaker 1>weren't in that room, you really can't say. I mean,

408
00:21:30.039 --> 00:21:32.200
<v Speaker 1>he said, by his own admission, he said, I didn't

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<v Speaker 1>know this woman, I never met her.

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<v Speaker 2>You can't really say it didn't happen. Well, Courtney says

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<v Speaker 2>that a lot of the guys were professional and that

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00:21:39.359 --> 00:21:41.359
<v Speaker 2>where they were cool and they were nice. She talks

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<v Speaker 2>about the ones who are like good guys. She also

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<v Speaker 2>including Billy Levine. She said he was very respectful. He

415
00:21:46.480 --> 00:21:49.200
<v Speaker 2>would have never that wasn't his style. He was crazy

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00:21:49.200 --> 00:21:52.079
<v Speaker 2>in a different kind of way. Yeah, but it doesn't

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00:21:52.119 --> 00:21:56.359
<v Speaker 2>mean that it doesn't happen, right, Yeah, Yeah.

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<v Speaker 4>It's not so much a cultural thing, but their assholes everywhere.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, the.

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<v Speaker 4>Command, even though it's not necessarily a cultural thing, the command.

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<v Speaker 4>And we see this all the time, even in the

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<v Speaker 4>conventional military, where the command wants these things to go

423
00:22:13.000 --> 00:22:16.279
<v Speaker 4>away because it looks bad for the unit commander, it

424
00:22:16.279 --> 00:22:18.880
<v Speaker 4>looks bad publicity wise, you know.

425
00:22:18.960 --> 00:22:21.400
<v Speaker 2>And yeah, yeah, it's worth pointing out too.

426
00:22:21.440 --> 00:22:24.480
<v Speaker 1>I mean, the lack of transparency in Jaysock, in the

427
00:22:24.519 --> 00:22:27.480
<v Speaker 1>special Operations community, and I would include the CIA in

428
00:22:27.519 --> 00:22:30.240
<v Speaker 1>this argument as well. The lack of transparency has not

429
00:22:30.279 --> 00:22:34.079
<v Speaker 1>done these bureaucracies any favors. It just allows these problems

430
00:22:34.160 --> 00:22:37.759
<v Speaker 1>to fester and metastasize, and things that should have been

431
00:22:37.759 --> 00:22:40.359
<v Speaker 1>exposed to daylight and gotten fixed years and years and

432
00:22:40.440 --> 00:22:44.240
<v Speaker 1>years ago. Sexual harassment, sexual assault in the military being

433
00:22:44.240 --> 00:22:46.880
<v Speaker 1>a big one. Those are things that could have been fixed.

434
00:22:47.640 --> 00:22:50.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely, And you know, they really made an enemy

435
00:22:50.480 --> 00:22:52.680
<v Speaker 2>out of Courtney Williams. And she was willing to talk

436
00:22:52.799 --> 00:22:55.920
<v Speaker 2>all this, say all this stuff about her work because

437
00:22:55.960 --> 00:22:59.079
<v Speaker 2>she felt that she had been treated unfairly, and I

438
00:22:59.160 --> 00:23:02.839
<v Speaker 2>ended up really sympathy with her. Uh.

439
00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:08.200
<v Speaker 1>Another interesting thing, I mean maybe interesting to some people. Anyways,

440
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:11.200
<v Speaker 1>You talk about how us to Soak the command actually

441
00:23:11.200 --> 00:23:14.559
<v Speaker 1>gets used as a dumping ground for fired operators. In

442
00:23:14.559 --> 00:23:17.160
<v Speaker 1>some cases, they're you can get fired from the unit

443
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:18.960
<v Speaker 1>for anything. You know, it doesn't mean you're a bad

444
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:21.559
<v Speaker 1>guy by any means, but some of these guys are

445
00:23:21.599 --> 00:23:23.880
<v Speaker 1>having serious issues. And like you quote one guy saying

446
00:23:23.920 --> 00:23:26.680
<v Speaker 1>like this is a force protection issue because some of

447
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:27.279
<v Speaker 1>these guys.

448
00:23:27.079 --> 00:23:30.400
<v Speaker 2>Are just so off the wall. Yeah, I remember I

449
00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:34.279
<v Speaker 2>got that document from CID through FOYA, and it was

450
00:23:34.400 --> 00:23:36.480
<v Speaker 2>I was blown away. I actually quoted it at great

451
00:23:36.559 --> 00:23:39.759
<v Speaker 2>length in the book because Yeah, the commander of the

452
00:23:39.799 --> 00:23:43.640
<v Speaker 2>headquarters company at USUSAK says that he had at any

453
00:23:43.680 --> 00:23:46.279
<v Speaker 2>given time he had as many as a dozen like

454
00:23:46.359 --> 00:23:48.480
<v Speaker 2>guys that had been kicked out of the unit. And

455
00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:50.759
<v Speaker 2>he talks about how dangerous it was to have guys

456
00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:52.680
<v Speaker 2>that a lot of times didn't know why they were

457
00:23:52.759 --> 00:23:54.839
<v Speaker 2>reporting there, didn't know why they had been expelled from

458
00:23:54.839 --> 00:23:57.640
<v Speaker 2>the unit, had all kinds of problems. Yeah, and he

459
00:23:57.680 --> 00:24:00.480
<v Speaker 2>even says at one point they busted and excel to

460
00:24:00.519 --> 00:24:03.200
<v Speaker 2>operator who had at the front gate, who had an

461
00:24:03.480 --> 00:24:05.519
<v Speaker 2>ar ten in the backseat with a blanket over it.

462
00:24:05.720 --> 00:24:09.000
<v Speaker 2>So he was strongly suggesting or stating out right he

463
00:24:09.039 --> 00:24:10.519
<v Speaker 2>was worried one of these dudes is going to do

464
00:24:10.559 --> 00:24:15.279
<v Speaker 2>a mass shooting, which was sobering to read.

465
00:24:14.440 --> 00:24:19.920
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, another one I wanted to ask you about. I mean,

466
00:24:19.960 --> 00:24:21.599
<v Speaker 1>you do, I don't know how deep you want to

467
00:24:21.599 --> 00:24:25.319
<v Speaker 1>go into it. But another disturbing one is Enrique Roman Martinez,

468
00:24:25.759 --> 00:24:29.480
<v Speaker 1>eighty second Airborne soldier goes camping in North Carolina with

469
00:24:29.599 --> 00:24:33.119
<v Speaker 1>some of his army buddies and ends up dead.

470
00:24:33.400 --> 00:24:37.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, that one takes it to a totally different place.

471
00:24:37.160 --> 00:24:39.440
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the rest of this stuff is like gangland stuff,

472
00:24:39.480 --> 00:24:44.000
<v Speaker 2>mafia type stuff, cartel stuff, but the case of Enrique

473
00:24:44.039 --> 00:24:47.319
<v Speaker 2>Roman Martinez is like some X files shit. To be honest,

474
00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:50.839
<v Speaker 2>like he disappears. Yeah, and you know some you probably

475
00:24:50.880 --> 00:24:53.720
<v Speaker 2>recalled Jack that A lot of the suspicion initially focused

476
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:55.799
<v Speaker 2>on the seven soldiers that were with him on that

477
00:24:55.880 --> 00:25:00.880
<v Speaker 2>camping trip, but thanks to the Roman mar Tina's family.

478
00:25:00.920 --> 00:25:03.799
<v Speaker 2>I got CID's whole file on that case, which was

479
00:25:03.839 --> 00:25:06.960
<v Speaker 2>sixteen hundred pages. Like they it was like the most

480
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:13.839
<v Speaker 2>extensive murder investigation in army history. And man, they seemed

481
00:25:13.880 --> 00:25:17.279
<v Speaker 2>like they left no stone unturned. And you can read

482
00:25:17.359 --> 00:25:19.400
<v Speaker 2>all these kids. I call them kids because they were

483
00:25:19.400 --> 00:25:23.039
<v Speaker 2>like between the ages of nineteen and twenty two. These

484
00:25:23.039 --> 00:25:27.039
<v Speaker 2>are junior soldiers in the eighty second And their stories

485
00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:30.480
<v Speaker 2>never changed from the beginning. They just said, you know,

486
00:25:30.519 --> 00:25:33.000
<v Speaker 2>they admitted that they took drugs, they took LSD, that

487
00:25:33.400 --> 00:25:35.240
<v Speaker 2>some of them did, that Enrique was tripping. He was

488
00:25:35.279 --> 00:25:39.359
<v Speaker 2>having a bad trip and was having these eerily He

489
00:25:39.400 --> 00:25:42.880
<v Speaker 2>was having these premonitions of his own imminent mortality. He

490
00:25:42.960 --> 00:25:47.759
<v Speaker 2>was convinced that he was about to die. But they

491
00:25:47.799 --> 00:25:49.319
<v Speaker 2>all just thought he was having a bad trip and

492
00:25:49.319 --> 00:25:51.079
<v Speaker 2>went to bed and when they woke up, he was gone.

493
00:25:51.759 --> 00:25:54.720
<v Speaker 2>That's all any of them could tell the police. Then

494
00:25:54.759 --> 00:25:58.039
<v Speaker 2>his head washes ashore on the island, you know, two

495
00:25:58.119 --> 00:26:01.319
<v Speaker 2>days or three days later, and medical examiners look at

496
00:26:01.319 --> 00:26:03.319
<v Speaker 2>it and say, this guy's head was chopped off with

497
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:06.519
<v Speaker 2>an axe. So who could have done that? And why?

498
00:26:07.000 --> 00:26:11.920
<v Speaker 2>I think the why is the most important question because

499
00:26:11.960 --> 00:26:14.839
<v Speaker 2>although they could never find any forensic evidence connecting any

500
00:26:14.839 --> 00:26:16.880
<v Speaker 2>of these young soldiers to the murder, none of them

501
00:26:16.880 --> 00:26:18.920
<v Speaker 2>had blood on them, none of them had any injuries.

502
00:26:19.359 --> 00:26:21.839
<v Speaker 2>They inspected their hands, you know, just as cops are

503
00:26:21.880 --> 00:26:25.519
<v Speaker 2>trained to do, none of that. But beyond that, none

504
00:26:25.519 --> 00:26:27.400
<v Speaker 2>of them had a reason to kill and Enriqui it

505
00:26:27.440 --> 00:26:31.119
<v Speaker 2>ever came to light. People speculated this reason or that reason,

506
00:26:31.160 --> 00:26:33.000
<v Speaker 2>but there was never any evidence for any of it.

507
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:37.799
<v Speaker 2>And again, the stories never changed. So for seven people

508
00:26:37.839 --> 00:26:40.200
<v Speaker 2>to keep their stories consistent over a period of years,

509
00:26:40.240 --> 00:26:43.839
<v Speaker 2>well under the microscope and getting interiorated constantly and also

510
00:26:43.960 --> 00:26:47.960
<v Speaker 2>charged with drug use and charged with disobeying orders, the

511
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.839
<v Speaker 2>fact that they didn't change their story, I think is

512
00:26:50.400 --> 00:26:55.200
<v Speaker 2>really important, and that remains unsolved to this day. It

513
00:26:55.240 --> 00:26:59.000
<v Speaker 2>remains unsolved. One of the strangest cold cases in army history,

514
00:26:59.000 --> 00:27:02.079
<v Speaker 2>in North Carolina history, and whoever killed Enrique Roman Martinez

515
00:27:02.119 --> 00:27:03.480
<v Speaker 2>is still out there. That's what's chilling.

516
00:27:03.480 --> 00:27:06.759
<v Speaker 1>And one more that I want to talk about before

517
00:27:06.799 --> 00:27:11.119
<v Speaker 1>we start to circle back to Billy Levine is Thacker

518
00:27:11.480 --> 00:27:16.640
<v Speaker 1>and the Rayford drop zone. And he's like a second,

519
00:27:16.720 --> 00:27:20.640
<v Speaker 1>if not a third generation drug trafficker. Yeah, on this airfield. Yeah,

520
00:27:20.759 --> 00:27:22.400
<v Speaker 1>I mean it's kind of wild.

521
00:27:23.319 --> 00:27:25.400
<v Speaker 2>I struggled where to put that in the book. My

522
00:27:25.519 --> 00:27:29.119
<v Speaker 2>editor Alison Lawrence, and she knows how hard we we.

523
00:27:29.119 --> 00:27:31.880
<v Speaker 2>We struggle to find the right place for that material.

524
00:27:33.920 --> 00:27:36.759
<v Speaker 2>You know that airfield. For folks who don't know, it's

525
00:27:36.839 --> 00:27:39.160
<v Speaker 2>called a Rayford drop zone. This is a real business stuff.

526
00:27:39.160 --> 00:27:40.720
<v Speaker 2>To be very careful about what I say about them.

527
00:27:40.759 --> 00:27:45.359
<v Speaker 2>It's a privately owned business. It was founded by Gene

528
00:27:45.359 --> 00:27:48.519
<v Speaker 2>Thackers and og special Forces guy who served like in

529
00:27:48.559 --> 00:27:52.640
<v Speaker 2>the Jungles of Laos. I even have a picture of

530
00:27:52.720 --> 00:27:56.160
<v Speaker 2>him with the Prince of Laos at a certain point,

531
00:27:56.160 --> 00:28:00.400
<v Speaker 2>like a black and white photo. I don't think it

532
00:28:00.480 --> 00:28:03.440
<v Speaker 2>was vang Pow there Wasn't he like a warlord? Yeah?

533
00:28:03.480 --> 00:28:06.680
<v Speaker 2>This so he was part of the Humong, right, So

534
00:28:06.799 --> 00:28:09.240
<v Speaker 2>this picture was with the and the Hmong were deeply

535
00:28:09.279 --> 00:28:13.039
<v Speaker 2>involved in drug trafficking. Famously, this picture was actually with

536
00:28:13.160 --> 00:28:16.720
<v Speaker 2>the because so were the Royal Laoatian forces. The Royal

537
00:28:17.039 --> 00:28:20.880
<v Speaker 2>Lao Army was also deeply involved in drug trafficking, also

538
00:28:20.920 --> 00:28:24.440
<v Speaker 2>allied with the Special Forces in the CIA. This person

539
00:28:24.559 --> 00:28:27.799
<v Speaker 2>was a member of that Laotian government and he was

540
00:28:27.839 --> 00:28:31.319
<v Speaker 2>actually busted at a certain point with thirteen million dollars worth,

541
00:28:31.319 --> 00:28:34.440
<v Speaker 2>a heroin personally smuggling and trying to smuggle into Paris.

542
00:28:35.079 --> 00:28:37.240
<v Speaker 2>I totally digress. You see the problem with this story.

543
00:28:37.519 --> 00:28:39.880
<v Speaker 2>It starts going backwards in time and to all these

544
00:28:39.920 --> 00:28:43.759
<v Speaker 2>other deep dark aspects. It really was a technical challenge

545
00:28:43.839 --> 00:28:46.119
<v Speaker 2>and it shrunk and shrunk construct Now it's like two

546
00:28:46.119 --> 00:28:48.720
<v Speaker 2>pages of the book. But there was just so much there.

547
00:28:48.759 --> 00:28:52.039
<v Speaker 2>I mean, there's this story. This whole movie could be

548
00:28:52.039 --> 00:28:54.839
<v Speaker 2>made about the guy's career. He was a major drug trafficker.

549
00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:57.559
<v Speaker 2>Gene Thacker was It's like a Barry Seal sort of story.

550
00:28:57.640 --> 00:28:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Well he knew Berry Seal. Berry Seal was one of

551
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:03.400
<v Speaker 2>his boys. Yeah, Barry Seal, and also Andrew Thornton, the

552
00:29:03.440 --> 00:29:08.000
<v Speaker 2>guy who Cocaine Bear. The whole Cocaine Bear story is

553
00:29:08.079 --> 00:29:11.240
<v Speaker 2>like is directly involved in this guy and the Rayfer

554
00:29:11.319 --> 00:29:13.279
<v Speaker 2>drop zone. This airport that's right on the periphy of

555
00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:16.599
<v Speaker 2>Port Bragg where Delta does their Halo training and where

556
00:29:16.599 --> 00:29:19.000
<v Speaker 2>I think maybe the whole greenber maybe you know better

557
00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:21.759
<v Speaker 2>than I do. Do all the Green Bereys do Halo.

558
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:22.680
<v Speaker 2>There is it just Delta.

559
00:29:23.400 --> 00:29:28.240
<v Speaker 1>No, Mostly they're out at uh McColl jumping. Who's the

560
00:29:28.279 --> 00:29:31.079
<v Speaker 1>training stuff, and then there's a couple of drop zones

561
00:29:31.119 --> 00:29:33.359
<v Speaker 1>on brag. But there's also the what is it the

562
00:29:33.400 --> 00:29:35.079
<v Speaker 1>Paraclet Parachute Club out there.

563
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:39.319
<v Speaker 2>That's the private parachuting club that's based there that Levine

564
00:29:39.319 --> 00:29:41.279
<v Speaker 2>was evidently a member of. Yeah, now I don't have

565
00:29:41.319 --> 00:29:44.359
<v Speaker 2>any you know, dirt, so to speak on that company.

566
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:46.440
<v Speaker 2>I don't know that they had anything to do with anything.

567
00:29:48.000 --> 00:29:50.400
<v Speaker 2>In fact, Billy worked at this airport. It's all like

568
00:29:50.440 --> 00:29:53.000
<v Speaker 2>connected in a way where the dots are right next

569
00:29:53.039 --> 00:29:55.400
<v Speaker 2>to each other, but you can't draw the lines between them. Yeah,

570
00:29:55.799 --> 00:29:58.359
<v Speaker 2>Levine's last job was working at this airport. He was

571
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:04.519
<v Speaker 2>on jump Master order. He was training guys to do hehou.

572
00:30:03.440 --> 00:30:06.920
<v Speaker 1>And probably the accelerated free fall course that they run

573
00:30:06.960 --> 00:30:07.319
<v Speaker 1>out there.

574
00:30:07.440 --> 00:30:09.640
<v Speaker 2>I would imagine that's what it is. He talks about

575
00:30:09.640 --> 00:30:12.759
<v Speaker 2>it extensively in his memoir and details exactly what his

576
00:30:12.880 --> 00:30:16.119
<v Speaker 2>job title was. It was something along those lines. But

577
00:30:16.279 --> 00:30:19.519
<v Speaker 2>this airport in the eighties was a massive center of

578
00:30:19.640 --> 00:30:22.519
<v Speaker 2>massive drug draffick. I got all these FBI documents that

579
00:30:22.559 --> 00:30:24.759
<v Speaker 2>talk about Gene Thacker's role in it, but they could

580
00:30:24.839 --> 00:30:27.079
<v Speaker 2>never catch this guy. I started to admire him in

581
00:30:27.119 --> 00:30:29.880
<v Speaker 2>a certain way because he was so good at bringing

582
00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:33.119
<v Speaker 2>you know, hundreds of kilos of coke into the United

583
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:35.480
<v Speaker 2>States on these little airplanes that he maintained there right

584
00:30:35.480 --> 00:30:41.799
<v Speaker 2>by Fort Bragg. At one point, Florida State authorities chase

585
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:45.079
<v Speaker 2>him because Thacker was a pilot, and they chase him,

586
00:30:45.680 --> 00:30:48.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, coming into the country from the Caribbean. But

587
00:30:48.680 --> 00:30:50.119
<v Speaker 2>then they have to veer off at the end because

588
00:30:50.119 --> 00:30:51.880
<v Speaker 2>they don't want to enter four bags airspace, and so

589
00:30:51.920 --> 00:30:56.359
<v Speaker 2>he gets away clean. But you know the cocaine bear story,

590
00:30:56.440 --> 00:30:59.160
<v Speaker 2>that's that's this is the real story. I mean, I

591
00:30:59.240 --> 00:31:01.200
<v Speaker 2>have to bury it and foot notes in my book.

592
00:31:01.279 --> 00:31:04.359
<v Speaker 2>But you see, I can't even talk about this without

593
00:31:04.400 --> 00:31:09.799
<v Speaker 2>getting sidetracked indefinitely. So let me just say the cocaine

594
00:31:09.839 --> 00:31:12.279
<v Speaker 2>You know, the cocaine bear story, right, I don't know,

595
00:31:12.440 --> 00:31:14.599
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, but I know the movie, right movie.

596
00:31:14.960 --> 00:31:17.160
<v Speaker 2>I didn't see the movie, but the bear that overdosed

597
00:31:17.160 --> 00:31:18.160
<v Speaker 2>in a bunch of cocaine, and.

598
00:31:18.240 --> 00:31:21.000
<v Speaker 4>I thought I thought it was a fake I thought

599
00:31:21.039 --> 00:31:22.599
<v Speaker 4>it was just a fiction movie.

600
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:24.720
<v Speaker 1>So it was based on reality.

601
00:31:24.839 --> 00:31:28.200
<v Speaker 2>It's supposedly a true story. In fact, when that movie

602
00:31:28.279 --> 00:31:30.640
<v Speaker 2>came out, the New York Times and The Washington Post

603
00:31:30.680 --> 00:31:34.240
<v Speaker 2>both ran stories saying, is the cocaine bear story true? Yesterday?

604
00:31:34.319 --> 00:31:36.680
<v Speaker 2>Is here's the true story. It was about Andrew Thornton,

605
00:31:36.759 --> 00:31:40.200
<v Speaker 2>this ex Fort Bragg paratrooper who turned into a drug

606
00:31:40.240 --> 00:31:43.279
<v Speaker 2>trafficker and was moving all this weight into the US,

607
00:31:43.319 --> 00:31:45.480
<v Speaker 2>and he threw the coke because what they would do

608
00:31:45.599 --> 00:31:49.200
<v Speaker 2>is rig the coke with paradrop parag drop whatever, yeah,

609
00:31:49.200 --> 00:31:51.839
<v Speaker 2>and then come back and get it later. But he

610
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:54.240
<v Speaker 2>died on one of his on his last jump. He

611
00:31:54.440 --> 00:31:57.440
<v Speaker 2>he he parachuted, didn't pull in time, and or something

612
00:31:57.480 --> 00:32:00.240
<v Speaker 2>happened and he died. And so supposedly a bear got

613
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:02.599
<v Speaker 2>into a bunch of the cocaine that he had dropped,

614
00:32:03.559 --> 00:32:07.640
<v Speaker 2>an overdose and died. But when I really investigated the

615
00:32:07.680 --> 00:32:09.920
<v Speaker 2>story and went back into the news archives and read

616
00:32:10.000 --> 00:32:12.279
<v Speaker 2>everything in sequential order about what had been what had

617
00:32:12.319 --> 00:32:16.000
<v Speaker 2>actually happened, it was crystal clear that that bear thing

618
00:32:16.079 --> 00:32:18.359
<v Speaker 2>would never happen. And that was a cover story for

619
00:32:18.400 --> 00:32:21.559
<v Speaker 2>the cops who freaking stole that cocaine and told the

620
00:32:21.599 --> 00:32:23.480
<v Speaker 2>press that a bear had eaten it. That was their

621
00:32:23.480 --> 00:32:29.200
<v Speaker 2>cover story. And the medical examiner that the AP interviewed

622
00:32:29.240 --> 00:32:31.759
<v Speaker 2>this is like nineteen eighty five. He just tells the

623
00:32:31.759 --> 00:32:33.519
<v Speaker 2>reporters in the room straight up. He's like, yeah, that

624
00:32:33.559 --> 00:32:37.759
<v Speaker 2>bear didn't eat the cocaine, and the question is where's

625
00:32:37.799 --> 00:32:41.599
<v Speaker 2>the cocaine. This is only the like the nineteen eighties

626
00:32:41.880 --> 00:32:44.839
<v Speaker 2>per portion of this story because as you know, Thatcker's son,

627
00:32:45.000 --> 00:32:47.039
<v Speaker 2>Tim Thacker, who went on to run the airport and

628
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:49.599
<v Speaker 2>was a Delta Horce pilot. He was a major drug

629
00:32:49.640 --> 00:32:54.119
<v Speaker 2>trafficker too, and in fact, North Carolina federal prosecuars in

630
00:32:54.119 --> 00:32:56.759
<v Speaker 2>North Carolina described him when he was convicted as the

631
00:32:56.759 --> 00:33:01.160
<v Speaker 2>biggest methamphetamine trafficker in North Carolina street. So this is

632
00:33:01.200 --> 00:33:04.640
<v Speaker 2>the guy running Delta Force's little airport where Billy Levine works.

633
00:33:05.039 --> 00:33:09.079
<v Speaker 1>Interesting, and Thacker's still in the clink the sun.

634
00:33:09.200 --> 00:33:11.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh wait forty years Yeah, yeah, they threw the book

635
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:14.279
<v Speaker 2>at him.

636
00:33:14.880 --> 00:33:18.960
<v Speaker 1>So we can't brush past without talking about this incident

637
00:33:19.000 --> 00:33:20.839
<v Speaker 1>that happened just in the last couple of years. Where

638
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:22.960
<v Speaker 1>was it one of the was it the co pilot

639
00:33:23.039 --> 00:33:24.119
<v Speaker 1>jumped off the back ramp?

640
00:33:24.279 --> 00:33:26.799
<v Speaker 2>Right, That's how I got pulled into this airport story

641
00:33:27.319 --> 00:33:30.200
<v Speaker 2>because in twenty twenty two a guy just literally fell

642
00:33:30.240 --> 00:33:30.880
<v Speaker 2>out of the sky.

643
00:33:31.200 --> 00:33:34.359
<v Speaker 1>That's another X Files type Uh yeah, what happened here?

644
00:33:34.559 --> 00:33:38.000
<v Speaker 2>Right? Yeah? I mean and the NTSP has nothing on that.

645
00:33:38.319 --> 00:33:42.079
<v Speaker 2>Like they investigated and they ultimately it was just inconclusive.

646
00:33:42.119 --> 00:33:45.319
<v Speaker 2>He was the pilot for Ramper Aviation, which is a

647
00:33:45.319 --> 00:33:47.440
<v Speaker 2>country that does a company that does a lot of

648
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:51.640
<v Speaker 2>recruiting for it does a lot of contracting for USISK

649
00:33:52.319 --> 00:33:56.160
<v Speaker 2>and for the Navy Seals. And Charles Crooks was his name.

650
00:33:56.200 --> 00:33:59.319
<v Speaker 2>He was a young pilot and for some reason they

651
00:33:59.319 --> 00:34:02.160
<v Speaker 2>were doing I mean, they were flying Special Forces soldiers

652
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:06.400
<v Speaker 2>that day, presumably Delta operators on training flights. And one

653
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:10.920
<v Speaker 2>of their return flights he just fell out of the

654
00:34:10.920 --> 00:34:16.239
<v Speaker 2>plane without a parachute. Why nobody can really say. So

655
00:34:16.320 --> 00:34:18.119
<v Speaker 2>that's the mystery. They got me drawn to this whole

656
00:34:18.119 --> 00:34:21.119
<v Speaker 2>airport thing. It's really not central to the book, but

657
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:23.440
<v Speaker 2>eventually I just use it as an example of how

658
00:34:23.480 --> 00:34:26.400
<v Speaker 2>Fort Bragg's like this Bermuda Triangle for weird stuff that

659
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:31.960
<v Speaker 2>never gets explained exactly. All right, So tell us who

660
00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:37.159
<v Speaker 2>is Freddie Huff. Freddie Huff, as you know, was a

661
00:34:37.239 --> 00:34:41.440
<v Speaker 2>North Carolina State trooper who was very good at his job.

662
00:34:42.599 --> 00:34:46.880
<v Speaker 2>He was like the best at asset forfeiture. He sees

663
00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:50.159
<v Speaker 2>something like nine million dollars in cash. I've looked at

664
00:34:50.159 --> 00:34:54.239
<v Speaker 2>these police reports where he's like pulling an inconspicuous Mazda

665
00:34:54.559 --> 00:34:58.400
<v Speaker 2>minivan over and finding like four hundred thousand dollars in cash,

666
00:34:58.480 --> 00:35:01.480
<v Speaker 2>like hidden in some secret compartm. He just had the

667
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:05.159
<v Speaker 2>knack to do this. But and he was going around

668
00:35:05.199 --> 00:35:09.400
<v Speaker 2>the country giving lectures an asset forfeiture. He was seconded

669
00:35:09.760 --> 00:35:15.239
<v Speaker 2>or deputized by the DEA, and the sky seemed to

670
00:35:15.239 --> 00:35:18.360
<v Speaker 2>be the limit for his law enforcement career until he

671
00:35:18.440 --> 00:35:22.239
<v Speaker 2>gave a DWI ticket to a guy, an insurance executive

672
00:35:22.239 --> 00:35:24.119
<v Speaker 2>in North Carolina who is a big donor to the

673
00:35:24.119 --> 00:35:27.440
<v Speaker 2>governor in North Carolina. That'll do it. That did it

674
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:30.000
<v Speaker 2>for Freddy. He was fired before the month was out,

675
00:35:30.159 --> 00:35:33.119
<v Speaker 2>they said, and they got him for selling a pair

676
00:35:33.159 --> 00:35:37.039
<v Speaker 2>of state issued shoes on eBay, some complete pretense in

677
00:35:37.400 --> 00:35:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Freddie's view, which is easy to understand why he would

678
00:35:40.480 --> 00:35:44.440
<v Speaker 2>think that. And at that point, you know he's unemployed.

679
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:47.840
<v Speaker 2>He's totally embittered towards law enforcement. He has all this

680
00:35:47.960 --> 00:35:50.360
<v Speaker 2>knowledge about the drug trafficking world. He's kind of a

681
00:35:50.400 --> 00:35:55.079
<v Speaker 2>savant at like detecting smugglers, and he decides, well, I'm

682
00:35:55.079 --> 00:35:57.639
<v Speaker 2>gonna I'm gonna get into the game myself, and that's

683
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.800
<v Speaker 2>what he did, and he turned into a massive drug trafficker.

684
00:36:00.960 --> 00:36:04.000
<v Speaker 1>The way I understood it was that he first started

685
00:36:04.039 --> 00:36:07.239
<v Speaker 1>like an import export business, I think, selling washers and

686
00:36:07.320 --> 00:36:10.719
<v Speaker 1>dryers down in Mexico, and then, like a good entrepreneur, thinks,

687
00:36:10.719 --> 00:36:14.159
<v Speaker 1>what can I bring back with me on the return trip. Yeah,

688
00:36:13.559 --> 00:36:17.039
<v Speaker 1>and he had all this nohow from being a police officer,

689
00:36:17.480 --> 00:36:19.360
<v Speaker 1>like I was told, he had like a ritual. He

690
00:36:19.360 --> 00:36:21.800
<v Speaker 1>would get like naked in the hotel room and wipe

691
00:36:21.840 --> 00:36:26.039
<v Speaker 1>down all the satchels of drugs with pneumonia, like wrap them,

692
00:36:26.199 --> 00:36:28.760
<v Speaker 1>rub it down again, wrap it again with cellophane. And

693
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:32.280
<v Speaker 1>then when he drove through the border, he'd have open

694
00:36:32.840 --> 00:36:35.840
<v Speaker 1>containers in his car of pneumonia to burn out the

695
00:36:35.960 --> 00:36:36.920
<v Speaker 1>noses of the dogs.

696
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:39.199
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. Yeah, he shared some of those details with me

697
00:36:39.239 --> 00:36:43.519
<v Speaker 2>as well, double bagging the bricks and shop towels that

698
00:36:43.559 --> 00:36:48.760
<v Speaker 2>have been soaked in ammonia. And he also used diversion tactics.

699
00:36:48.760 --> 00:36:51.760
<v Speaker 2>They would have their associate, himI Rosato, who was also

700
00:36:51.760 --> 00:36:54.599
<v Speaker 2>convicted with Huff. You know they would have he was

701
00:36:54.639 --> 00:36:56.840
<v Speaker 2>because Huff did not look like a drug trafficker. He's

702
00:36:56.840 --> 00:36:59.480
<v Speaker 2>a six foot something white guy, high and tight haircut,

703
00:36:59.559 --> 00:37:02.400
<v Speaker 2>usually wore a full suit and tie, and he's got

704
00:37:02.559 --> 00:37:06.360
<v Speaker 2>law enforcement badges, you know, in his wallet, knows how

705
00:37:06.360 --> 00:37:08.480
<v Speaker 2>to talk to police, et cetera. He does not fit

706
00:37:08.519 --> 00:37:12.360
<v Speaker 2>the profile. Now his buddy, his plug, himI Rosato, did

707
00:37:12.599 --> 00:37:16.039
<v Speaker 2>look like a drug trafficker. Fit the stereotype. And what

708
00:37:16.079 --> 00:37:18.599
<v Speaker 2>they would do is Hi May when they were rolling

709
00:37:18.679 --> 00:37:22.039
<v Speaker 2>up to the checkpoint, the CBP checkpoint outside Laredo, Hime

710
00:37:22.159 --> 00:37:24.280
<v Speaker 2>would smoke a joint and just fill up the car

711
00:37:24.400 --> 00:37:27.119
<v Speaker 2>with smoke, but he would toss it before they got

712
00:37:27.159 --> 00:37:29.840
<v Speaker 2>to the checkpoint. So when he got there to come

713
00:37:29.880 --> 00:37:32.440
<v Speaker 2>into the United States, he would roll down the windows

714
00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:34.719
<v Speaker 2>and like these billows of marijuana smoke like che and

715
00:37:34.800 --> 00:37:38.960
<v Speaker 2>jump exactly. And so of course officers say step out

716
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:41.239
<v Speaker 2>of the car, dude, you know, get the dogs over here.

717
00:37:41.280 --> 00:37:43.199
<v Speaker 2>They're giving him the fourth degree, but he doesn't have

718
00:37:43.239 --> 00:37:47.599
<v Speaker 2>anything right and actually smoking weed is decriminalized in Mexico,

719
00:37:47.639 --> 00:37:50.320
<v Speaker 2>so they don't get him on that side either. Meanwhile,

720
00:37:50.360 --> 00:37:53.039
<v Speaker 2>Freddie Huff just cruises pass with like ten kilos of coke,

721
00:37:53.119 --> 00:37:56.039
<v Speaker 2>five hundred thousand dollars worth of drugs, you know, and

722
00:37:56.280 --> 00:37:58.000
<v Speaker 2>they just wave at him. Have a nice day, sir.

723
00:37:58.119 --> 00:37:59.440
<v Speaker 2>Are you a US citizen? Yes?

724
00:37:59.480 --> 00:38:04.360
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<v Speaker 1>And so he's bringing this stuff up to North Carolina

772
00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:37.840
<v Speaker 1>for distribution in the Fort Bragg area.

773
00:40:38.079 --> 00:40:40.960
<v Speaker 2>Apparently he was the biggest drug dealer in the Carolinas.

774
00:40:40.960 --> 00:40:43.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean the people that associated with him, they all

775
00:40:43.159 --> 00:40:46.280
<v Speaker 2>told me Freddie was big man. He was everyone respected him.

776
00:40:46.280 --> 00:40:49.360
<v Speaker 2>He was hooking up the Bloods and the crips, gangster disciples,

777
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:51.840
<v Speaker 2>all the street gangs to operate, like in the Raleigh

778
00:40:51.880 --> 00:40:55.760
<v Speaker 2>Durham area, in the central part of North Carolina and

779
00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:58.159
<v Speaker 2>around Fort Bragg. You know, Freddie was the guy. He

780
00:40:58.320 --> 00:41:01.480
<v Speaker 2>was the one bringing up you know up. There's different

781
00:41:01.559 --> 00:41:05.880
<v Speaker 2>estimates in federal court documents, but on the outside end

782
00:41:05.960 --> 00:41:07.360
<v Speaker 2>of it, on the high end, it may have been

783
00:41:07.440 --> 00:41:09.880
<v Speaker 2>three tons of coke that he smuggled in the US

784
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:11.199
<v Speaker 2>in his career.

785
00:41:11.199 --> 00:41:13.880
<v Speaker 1>And you write about you know how he was almost

786
00:41:13.920 --> 00:41:17.400
<v Speaker 1>like a little poblo escobar there in North Carolina, like

787
00:41:17.880 --> 00:41:19.599
<v Speaker 1>he was living large for a while there.

788
00:41:19.800 --> 00:41:22.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, yeah, Apparently he didn't save much of his money.

789
00:41:22.320 --> 00:41:25.480
<v Speaker 2>He blew it all by his own admission on prostitutes,

790
00:41:25.960 --> 00:41:29.679
<v Speaker 2>high high priced prostitutes and gambling and then doing a

791
00:41:29.760 --> 00:41:30.880
<v Speaker 2>cocaine himself.

792
00:41:30.920 --> 00:41:33.079
<v Speaker 1>That was his downfall, was using his own product.

793
00:41:33.159 --> 00:41:35.559
<v Speaker 2>Really oh yeah, he admits that that it made him

794
00:41:35.599 --> 00:41:39.719
<v Speaker 2>super paranoid. You know, I really personally, I've never done cocaine,

795
00:41:40.199 --> 00:41:44.039
<v Speaker 2>certainly never done it in an extended way. But apparently

796
00:41:44.079 --> 00:41:46.400
<v Speaker 2>they say that it can make you really paranoid. And

797
00:41:46.440 --> 00:41:49.960
<v Speaker 2>that's something I've seen again and again in writing this book,

798
00:41:50.119 --> 00:41:52.199
<v Speaker 2>is the dudes that have a really bad coke problem.

799
00:41:52.239 --> 00:41:55.159
<v Speaker 2>They ended up super paranoid thinking that people were plotting

800
00:41:55.159 --> 00:41:57.679
<v Speaker 2>to kill them, and then plotting to kill those other people.

801
00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:59.519
<v Speaker 2>So it can take you to a dark place. And

802
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:03.239
<v Speaker 2>that's what hoppen into Freddie.

803
00:42:02.320 --> 00:42:05.960
<v Speaker 1>And so, and Freddie was connected to another character here.

804
00:42:06.000 --> 00:42:09.000
<v Speaker 1>We needed another person. We need to talk about Tim

805
00:42:09.079 --> 00:42:13.559
<v Speaker 1>Dumas who he was a warrant officer of logistics guy

806
00:42:13.760 --> 00:42:17.400
<v Speaker 1>for special Forces out of gets out of the military.

807
00:42:17.440 --> 00:42:19.880
<v Speaker 2>And was he if I understand correctly.

808
00:42:20.000 --> 00:42:22.320
<v Speaker 1>Was he like Freddie Huff's connection into like the local

809
00:42:22.400 --> 00:42:23.119
<v Speaker 1>black mafia.

810
00:42:23.719 --> 00:42:26.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well, I don't know about the black mafia. He

811
00:42:26.800 --> 00:42:29.719
<v Speaker 2>was his connection to Fort Bragg. Okay, so Timothy Duma

812
00:42:29.800 --> 00:42:34.039
<v Speaker 2>and a key connection to Billy Levine's murder, which we

813
00:42:34.119 --> 00:42:37.679
<v Speaker 2>haven't got to yet. We'll walk into that. But Dumas

814
00:42:38.119 --> 00:42:41.480
<v Speaker 2>was a member of the ninety fifth Civil Affairs Brigade,

815
00:42:42.119 --> 00:42:44.400
<v Speaker 2>and in my book, that unit comes up again and

816
00:42:44.440 --> 00:42:49.679
<v Speaker 2>again with their people being involved in some really questionable incidents.

817
00:42:51.079 --> 00:42:54.039
<v Speaker 1>The Sciots unit down there at Bragg too. Apparently it's

818
00:42:54.039 --> 00:42:57.320
<v Speaker 1>not the syops units too, also some weird stuff.

819
00:42:57.440 --> 00:43:01.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, oh yeah, for sure, the fourth Psychologue Operations Group

820
00:43:01.000 --> 00:43:04.800
<v Speaker 2>and the eighth definitely. But you know, I've taken heat

821
00:43:05.079 --> 00:43:08.679
<v Speaker 2>online for people from people because of my characterization of

822
00:43:08.719 --> 00:43:14.400
<v Speaker 2>the ninety fifth Civil Affairs Brigade, with people saying this

823
00:43:14.519 --> 00:43:17.239
<v Speaker 2>unit's not even soft, you know, blah blah blah, the

824
00:43:17.320 --> 00:43:20.280
<v Speaker 2>Civil Affairs like it's a joke. But I have Dumas's

825
00:43:20.360 --> 00:43:23.760
<v Speaker 2>enlistment record, and I know that he worked with Jaysock.

826
00:43:24.280 --> 00:43:26.400
<v Speaker 2>He was at the he was part of the Jaysok

827
00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:30.440
<v Speaker 2>led task force in Afghanistan and during four deployments, and

828
00:43:30.599 --> 00:43:33.519
<v Speaker 2>he talks, you know, in his separation packet which I've read,

829
00:43:34.159 --> 00:43:36.800
<v Speaker 2>you know, he talks about his Jaysock deployments and he

830
00:43:36.840 --> 00:43:41.719
<v Speaker 2>even has email correspondence with the Admiral William McRaven. So

831
00:43:42.400 --> 00:43:44.880
<v Speaker 2>I don't really, I can't pretend that I understand exactly

832
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:46.000
<v Speaker 2>what the ninety fifth does.

833
00:43:46.239 --> 00:43:48.639
<v Speaker 1>But he got kicked out of the army for getting

834
00:43:48.679 --> 00:43:51.559
<v Speaker 1>creative with the supply room, right, So he was kicked

835
00:43:51.599 --> 00:43:54.480
<v Speaker 1>out of the army for drug use. But his separation

836
00:43:54.599 --> 00:43:57.960
<v Speaker 1>packet makes clear that for the he was a supply officer,

837
00:43:58.519 --> 00:44:03.719
<v Speaker 1>a yeah, quartermaster. But his separation packet makes clear that

838
00:44:03.760 --> 00:44:07.559
<v Speaker 1>his entire military career he was losing sensitive items, failing

839
00:44:07.599 --> 00:44:11.880
<v Speaker 1>to keep track of you know, gear and weapons, and

840
00:44:12.039 --> 00:44:15.840
<v Speaker 1>basically just stealing stuff. I mean, that's it's well substantiated

841
00:44:15.840 --> 00:44:19.239
<v Speaker 1>that Dumas was using his position, and also people close

842
00:44:19.239 --> 00:44:22.280
<v Speaker 1>to him in the same unit, Christopher Mann, someone who

843
00:44:22.320 --> 00:44:25.840
<v Speaker 1>was never named. People were convicted were charged and convicted

844
00:44:25.880 --> 00:44:29.119
<v Speaker 1>of stealing millions of dollars worth of military property. So

845
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:32.440
<v Speaker 1>it's clear as day that Dumas was also involved in

846
00:44:32.440 --> 00:44:36.239
<v Speaker 1>that theft, particularly of weapons and diverting weapons to the

847
00:44:36.239 --> 00:44:39.159
<v Speaker 1>black market, which is another big criminal activity.

848
00:44:39.159 --> 00:44:42.159
<v Speaker 2>It takes place around for Bragg. However, he was he

849
00:44:42.199 --> 00:44:45.360
<v Speaker 2>was kicked out of the military for drug use. That

850
00:44:45.559 --> 00:44:47.639
<v Speaker 2>was like the official reason, but there was more to

851
00:44:47.679 --> 00:44:50.119
<v Speaker 2>it obviously, And so what is.

852
00:44:51.599 --> 00:44:53.519
<v Speaker 1>Well, first, let's talk a little bit about a little

853
00:44:53.559 --> 00:44:57.840
<v Speaker 1>bit more about the association between Dumas and Huff. Those

854
00:44:57.880 --> 00:45:00.519
<v Speaker 1>guys were like pretty tight and they were doing some

855
00:45:01.320 --> 00:45:03.119
<v Speaker 1>other nefarious activities together.

856
00:45:03.320 --> 00:45:06.960
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so Huff is trafficking drugs for two years independently,

857
00:45:07.480 --> 00:45:11.880
<v Speaker 2>and then in twenty eighteen he meets Timothy Dumas and

858
00:45:13.000 --> 00:45:16.639
<v Speaker 2>the introduction. He was introduced to Dumas as a drug traffer.

859
00:45:16.760 --> 00:45:18.679
<v Speaker 2>Someone told him, Hey, this guy moves a lot of weight.

860
00:45:19.519 --> 00:45:22.639
<v Speaker 2>And Dumas told Huff that he was a soldier at

861
00:45:22.639 --> 00:45:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Fort Bragg and that there was a group of Special

862
00:45:25.400 --> 00:45:28.159
<v Speaker 2>Forces soldiers at Fort Bragg that were like a little cartel,

863
00:45:28.199 --> 00:45:30.920
<v Speaker 2>a little gang. That's where the title of the book

864
00:45:30.960 --> 00:45:33.880
<v Speaker 2>comes from. Billy Levine was one of them. He was

865
00:45:33.880 --> 00:45:36.519
<v Speaker 2>one of the guys that was working with Dumas. There

866
00:45:36.559 --> 00:45:38.440
<v Speaker 2>were other people that were part of this group and

867
00:45:38.480 --> 00:45:42.039
<v Speaker 2>they're distributing tons of drugs on for bragging around it.

868
00:45:43.840 --> 00:45:46.519
<v Speaker 2>And Huff found this partnership with Dumas to be very

869
00:45:46.599 --> 00:45:49.199
<v Speaker 2>lucrative because Dumas, you know, it's one thing to traffic

870
00:45:49.280 --> 00:45:52.199
<v Speaker 2>drugs into the United States. That's hard enough, but then

871
00:45:52.239 --> 00:45:55.880
<v Speaker 2>you got to sell it right turn into money. That's

872
00:45:55.880 --> 00:45:57.679
<v Speaker 2>a really hard thing to do. Sometimes you got to

873
00:45:57.719 --> 00:46:00.599
<v Speaker 2>find buyers, people that can liquidate coke. And that was

874
00:46:00.599 --> 00:46:02.639
<v Speaker 2>what Dumas was able to do. He was able to

875
00:46:02.679 --> 00:46:07.320
<v Speaker 2>offload a ton of Freddy's product right onto Fort Bragg, where,

876
00:46:07.440 --> 00:46:09.599
<v Speaker 2>you know, as I document my book, a lot of

877
00:46:09.639 --> 00:46:12.880
<v Speaker 2>these guys do cocaine, a surprising himount more than I

878
00:46:12.920 --> 00:46:15.880
<v Speaker 2>would have guessed. So it's you know, the fact that

879
00:46:15.880 --> 00:46:19.159
<v Speaker 2>Fort Bragg is this massive drug market is why it

880
00:46:19.239 --> 00:46:20.599
<v Speaker 2>mattered to Freddy.

881
00:46:21.440 --> 00:46:23.800
<v Speaker 1>And tell us about these like fake police raids that

882
00:46:23.800 --> 00:46:24.880
<v Speaker 1>they were doing at times.

883
00:46:25.599 --> 00:46:27.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, so they both of them are doing tons of

884
00:46:27.960 --> 00:46:34.400
<v Speaker 2>drugs and getting deeper and deeper into trouble and they

885
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:37.119
<v Speaker 2>start having money problems because Freddie made millions of dollars

886
00:46:37.159 --> 00:46:40.239
<v Speaker 2>when he blew it all on. You know, we already

887
00:46:40.400 --> 00:46:43.239
<v Speaker 2>we already said what he blew it on. You know

888
00:46:43.320 --> 00:46:46.039
<v Speaker 2>again by his own admission, he said that the girls

889
00:46:46.039 --> 00:46:48.599
<v Speaker 2>in aeros dot Com costs seven hundred to twelve hundred

890
00:46:48.599 --> 00:46:53.039
<v Speaker 2>dollars an hour news to me. So that's where the

891
00:46:53.039 --> 00:46:56.480
<v Speaker 2>money was going. And they got stolen from by some guy,

892
00:46:57.159 --> 00:47:03.039
<v Speaker 2>some gangbanger in I think durham Ra or Ralei maybe,

893
00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:05.280
<v Speaker 2>who stole a bunch of drugs from them, and they

894
00:47:05.320 --> 00:47:07.840
<v Speaker 2>owed money to some Puerto Rican plug because they were

895
00:47:07.880 --> 00:47:10.800
<v Speaker 2>also bringing drugs in from the Caribbean. It wasn't just Mexico.

896
00:47:11.480 --> 00:47:13.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if we specified that, but Freddy was

897
00:47:13.400 --> 00:47:16.599
<v Speaker 2>working with the Lozetto's cartel in Mexico. So they're bringing

898
00:47:16.599 --> 00:47:18.480
<v Speaker 2>a ton of product from Mexico, but they're also bringing

899
00:47:18.519 --> 00:47:21.280
<v Speaker 2>it from Puerto Rico. They got behind with their Puerto

900
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Rican suppliers and believed that the Puerto Ricans were going

901
00:47:24.519 --> 00:47:27.599
<v Speaker 2>to have them killed, and so in order to get

902
00:47:27.639 --> 00:47:31.800
<v Speaker 2>their product back, this guy was a street you know,

903
00:47:31.880 --> 00:47:36.039
<v Speaker 2>street gangster named hundred K was this sort of hood alias.

904
00:47:36.840 --> 00:47:38.639
<v Speaker 2>This guy steals a bunch of coke from and they're like,

905
00:47:38.679 --> 00:47:40.079
<v Speaker 2>all right, well, we got to go get it back,

906
00:47:40.760 --> 00:47:45.039
<v Speaker 2>and so they disguised themselves as US marshals. They got

907
00:47:45.079 --> 00:47:48.480
<v Speaker 2>they made they fabricated these uniforms and they created a

908
00:47:48.480 --> 00:47:51.639
<v Speaker 2>police car. They bought it from a police auction left

909
00:47:51.639 --> 00:47:54.079
<v Speaker 2>it still registered to the state. They had all of it,

910
00:47:54.199 --> 00:47:58.920
<v Speaker 2>like the versimilitude was very exact. And then they went

911
00:47:59.079 --> 00:48:02.199
<v Speaker 2>and hidnapped his right hand man, this dude name that

912
00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:05.639
<v Speaker 2>went by the name Rise, kidnapped him, held him prisoner,

913
00:48:06.199 --> 00:48:08.000
<v Speaker 2>and told hundred K that they were going to chop

914
00:48:08.039 --> 00:48:10.320
<v Speaker 2>off his head if they didn't give him the money.

915
00:48:10.360 --> 00:48:12.519
<v Speaker 2>And so it just goes on and on from there.

916
00:48:12.559 --> 00:48:15.119
<v Speaker 2>But you know, Huff and Dumas, they were they were

917
00:48:15.239 --> 00:48:18.480
<v Speaker 2>impersonating police officers. They were breaking into houses, they were

918
00:48:18.519 --> 00:48:21.679
<v Speaker 2>shooting at people, they were kicking people's door downs, they

919
00:48:21.679 --> 00:48:25.840
<v Speaker 2>were driving around like they were cops. And you know,

920
00:48:25.920 --> 00:48:28.480
<v Speaker 2>it pretty clear this wasn't going to last forever. This

921
00:48:28.639 --> 00:48:30.119
<v Speaker 2>is yeah, things didn't catch.

922
00:48:30.000 --> 00:48:31.960
<v Speaker 1>Up, like it started starting to catch up with them

923
00:48:32.039 --> 00:48:35.760
<v Speaker 1>right when I think they hit it was the Mexicans.

924
00:48:36.239 --> 00:48:38.360
<v Speaker 1>And like the old lady, the mother in the house

925
00:48:38.400 --> 00:48:41.000
<v Speaker 1>started having like a stroke or a heart attack or something,

926
00:48:41.159 --> 00:48:43.159
<v Speaker 1>and they had to call an ambulance because they I

927
00:48:43.159 --> 00:48:45.559
<v Speaker 1>guess there's some honor among thieves. They weren't there to

928
00:48:45.639 --> 00:48:46.679
<v Speaker 1>kill the old lady, you know.

929
00:48:47.440 --> 00:48:50.360
<v Speaker 2>I think that, and also I'm sure they didn't mean to.

930
00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:53.840
<v Speaker 2>But also, Huff, you know, being a police officer, knew

931
00:48:53.840 --> 00:48:55.880
<v Speaker 2>that he could be charged with murder if that woman

932
00:48:55.880 --> 00:48:58.960
<v Speaker 2>had died, because she was like flex cuffed and everything. Yeah, definitely.

933
00:48:59.159 --> 00:49:01.760
<v Speaker 2>I mean, you flex cuff an old lady robbing her

934
00:49:01.840 --> 00:49:03.880
<v Speaker 2>house and she dies, you're gonna get charged with murder.

935
00:49:04.000 --> 00:49:06.280
<v Speaker 2>So Huff, knowing that, uses a drop phone to call

936
00:49:06.400 --> 00:49:09.880
<v Speaker 2>the emergency services. But what he doesn't realize is that

937
00:49:09.920 --> 00:49:14.000
<v Speaker 2>there's a hospital like two blocks away. So they immediately

938
00:49:14.079 --> 00:49:18.079
<v Speaker 2>show up and and like what the phone was. Yet

939
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:20.440
<v Speaker 2>something doesn't compute about these guys, maybe the fact that

940
00:49:20.440 --> 00:49:24.880
<v Speaker 2>they're wearing ski mask and bags of loot over their shoulders.

941
00:49:28.199 --> 00:49:31.760
<v Speaker 2>And so the cops show up, and Freddy didn't know

942
00:49:31.800 --> 00:49:34.679
<v Speaker 2>this was possible, but they, you know, they picked up

943
00:49:34.719 --> 00:49:39.000
<v Speaker 2>the phone that he had wiped, and they're actually able

944
00:49:39.000 --> 00:49:42.280
<v Speaker 2>to geolocate it and show this phone has been in

945
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:45.039
<v Speaker 2>proximity with this phone, and these two phones have been

946
00:49:45.039 --> 00:49:48.199
<v Speaker 2>moving around the city and so and that other phone's

947
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:50.079
<v Speaker 2>in his name, and he was on a federal watch

948
00:49:50.119 --> 00:49:52.719
<v Speaker 2>list and so that's when the Feds moved in for Freddie.

949
00:49:54.039 --> 00:49:57.440
<v Speaker 1>Okay, and let's walk this back into like what is

950
00:49:57.480 --> 00:49:59.239
<v Speaker 1>Billy Levine's association with.

951
00:49:59.360 --> 00:50:06.679
<v Speaker 2>Dumas they work together dealing drugs in Fayeville, and there's

952
00:50:07.079 --> 00:50:14.679
<v Speaker 2>strong evidence of that from multiple sources. But Levine was

953
00:50:14.719 --> 00:50:17.519
<v Speaker 2>also working with civilians to sell drugs. He was working

954
00:50:17.519 --> 00:50:20.760
<v Speaker 2>with a lot of dealers in and around Bayville. Dumas

955
00:50:20.840 --> 00:50:23.880
<v Speaker 2>apparently was the biggest. I mean, I should have said

956
00:50:23.880 --> 00:50:29.400
<v Speaker 2>before Billy's memoir he uses pseudonyms for everybody, so sometimes

957
00:50:29.400 --> 00:50:31.960
<v Speaker 2>it's hard to tell who he's talking about. And I'm

958
00:50:32.000 --> 00:50:34.840
<v Speaker 2>still not sure which of the traffickers with whom he's

959
00:50:34.880 --> 00:50:38.320
<v Speaker 2>working He's what pseudonym he uses for Dumas. I have

960
00:50:38.360 --> 00:50:39.719
<v Speaker 2>to go through it a few more times and read

961
00:50:39.760 --> 00:50:43.559
<v Speaker 2>it more carefully. But I've got other eyewitness accounts that

962
00:50:43.599 --> 00:50:45.599
<v Speaker 2>put them together in the same time, in same place,

963
00:50:45.639 --> 00:50:47.920
<v Speaker 2>and then obviously they were found dead together. Tell us

964
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:53.079
<v Speaker 2>about that. So December second, twenty twenty, is a deer

965
00:50:53.119 --> 00:50:57.840
<v Speaker 2>hunter walking around Lake MacArthur on Fort Bragg and he

966
00:50:57.920 --> 00:51:01.760
<v Speaker 2>sees Billy Levine's truck just abandoned in the woods back there,

967
00:51:02.719 --> 00:51:06.159
<v Speaker 2>and a short distance away, Timothy Dumas is laying on

968
00:51:06.199 --> 00:51:09.320
<v Speaker 2>the ground, a dead from a gunshot to the forehead.

969
00:51:09.320 --> 00:51:13.840
<v Speaker 2>Apparently looks like he's been killed execution style, and Levine

970
00:51:13.920 --> 00:51:15.679
<v Speaker 2>was in the back of his own truck, wrapped up

971
00:51:15.719 --> 00:51:19.119
<v Speaker 2>in a blanket, having been shot multiple times in the torso.

972
00:51:19.920 --> 00:51:22.199
<v Speaker 2>So that's the double murder on for Brag that we

973
00:51:22.239 --> 00:51:24.239
<v Speaker 2>talked about the beginning of this I read about in

974
00:51:24.280 --> 00:51:26.079
<v Speaker 2>the New York Times and that you heard about right

975
00:51:26.119 --> 00:51:29.559
<v Speaker 2>away too, And that's when all of this stuff kind

976
00:51:29.559 --> 00:51:31.239
<v Speaker 2>of started to come to light for the first time

977
00:51:31.280 --> 00:51:34.280
<v Speaker 2>because prior to that, you know, the fact that Levin

978
00:51:34.320 --> 00:51:36.159
<v Speaker 2>had been the shooter and the Mark Lesher case was

979
00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:39.719
<v Speaker 2>not publicly disclosed until Levin himself was killed. Yeah, they

980
00:51:39.800 --> 00:51:42.239
<v Speaker 2>kept it pretty quiet. Yeah yeah.

981
00:51:42.800 --> 00:51:45.360
<v Speaker 1>And that's the problem with sweeping problems under the carpet

982
00:51:45.440 --> 00:51:47.280
<v Speaker 1>is they get worse and worse and worse until you

983
00:51:47.320 --> 00:51:48.000
<v Speaker 1>can't anymore.

984
00:51:48.320 --> 00:51:50.519
<v Speaker 2>As bad as the murder of Mark Leshiker was for

985
00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:53.880
<v Speaker 2>Delta Force, it was way worse when Levine himself turned

986
00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:55.960
<v Speaker 2>up murder and people started to say, oh, what about

987
00:51:56.039 --> 00:51:59.079
<v Speaker 2>this guy he killed eighteen months ago? Yeah?

988
00:51:59.199 --> 00:52:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, uh, I mean someone has been arrested for those

989
00:52:05.119 --> 00:52:05.880
<v Speaker 1>for those murders.

990
00:52:05.960 --> 00:52:07.280
<v Speaker 2>Now, who was that?

991
00:52:07.559 --> 00:52:11.039
<v Speaker 1>And do we have any sort of I guess educated

992
00:52:11.119 --> 00:52:14.639
<v Speaker 1>opinions or you know, anything you uncovered in this book

993
00:52:14.800 --> 00:52:16.400
<v Speaker 1>about what actually happened there.

994
00:52:16.960 --> 00:52:19.679
<v Speaker 2>That arrest of Kenneth Maurice quake really came out of

995
00:52:19.760 --> 00:52:23.119
<v Speaker 2>left field because there were so many suspects. There's so

996
00:52:23.119 --> 00:52:25.679
<v Speaker 2>many people who had a motive to kill and Dumas,

997
00:52:26.400 --> 00:52:28.679
<v Speaker 2>I mean Dumas had was also a guy who was

998
00:52:29.360 --> 00:52:33.840
<v Speaker 2>who is believed to have killed people. He apparently killed

999
00:52:33.840 --> 00:52:38.880
<v Speaker 2>a guy named uh named Green, Joey Green aka Joey

1000
00:52:38.880 --> 00:52:42.760
<v Speaker 2>Bananas is identified in the book, and he may have

1001
00:52:42.800 --> 00:52:46.760
<v Speaker 2>done other murders for hire. So Dumas had a lot

1002
00:52:46.800 --> 00:52:49.719
<v Speaker 2>of people who wanted to kill him, and Levigne as well.

1003
00:52:50.159 --> 00:52:53.079
<v Speaker 2>It could have been you know, Mark suspicion. There was

1004
00:52:53.119 --> 00:52:57.679
<v Speaker 2>suspicion initially on Mark Leshiger's former teammates. Want to be clear,

1005
00:52:57.719 --> 00:52:59.800
<v Speaker 2>there's no evidence of that that I ever disclosed or

1006
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:03.239
<v Speaker 2>that ever uncovered. But people wondered, you know, the fact

1007
00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:06.199
<v Speaker 2>that he killed Mark made people wonder. And apparently these

1008
00:53:06.199 --> 00:53:08.800
<v Speaker 2>guys have some of them had made some threats, so

1009
00:53:08.880 --> 00:53:13.159
<v Speaker 2>their suspicion on them, their suspicion on Billy's cartel associates,

1010
00:53:13.199 --> 00:53:18.360
<v Speaker 2>which his memoir goes deep into. And then finally there's

1011
00:53:18.360 --> 00:53:22.039
<v Speaker 2>a lot of people who thought more conspira more conspiratorial

1012
00:53:22.119 --> 00:53:25.800
<v Speaker 2>minded people you know, believe that someone that his own

1013
00:53:25.840 --> 00:53:28.480
<v Speaker 2>teammates could have done it, that Levine was messing up

1014
00:53:28.519 --> 00:53:31.760
<v Speaker 2>so badly that someone you know on the inside took

1015
00:53:31.840 --> 00:53:35.679
<v Speaker 2>him out. But in twenty twenty three, the Department of

1016
00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:40.239
<v Speaker 2>Justice indicted a twenty year old black kid named Kenneth

1017
00:53:40.280 --> 00:53:43.760
<v Speaker 2>Maurice Quick, who lived two counties away from Fort Bragg,

1018
00:53:43.800 --> 00:53:48.440
<v Speaker 2>has no connections to the military, and was already facing

1019
00:53:48.480 --> 00:53:53.639
<v Speaker 2>life in prison for an unrelated murder. So his trial

1020
00:53:53.679 --> 00:53:57.920
<v Speaker 2>is scheduled to begin in early twenty twenty six. And

1021
00:53:58.280 --> 00:54:01.760
<v Speaker 2>you know, a lot of the sources I interviewed are

1022
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:05.199
<v Speaker 2>very dismissive of the possibility of his guilt and say,

1023
00:54:05.360 --> 00:54:08.719
<v Speaker 2>you know, couldn't have been him. They're just framing them. Personally,

1024
00:54:09.119 --> 00:54:12.679
<v Speaker 2>I have to believe that the Department of Justice doesn't

1025
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:15.480
<v Speaker 2>accuse he will or murder lightly. I'm still not at

1026
00:54:15.480 --> 00:54:18.880
<v Speaker 2>the point. Obviously, I'm very critical of many elements of

1027
00:54:18.880 --> 00:54:21.760
<v Speaker 2>the US government in the book, but I am not

1028
00:54:21.920 --> 00:54:24.159
<v Speaker 2>to the point where I believe that the DOJ just

1029
00:54:24.199 --> 00:54:29.800
<v Speaker 2>frames people in order to solve the case. That said,

1030
00:54:29.920 --> 00:54:34.599
<v Speaker 2>if Kenneth Maurice Quick did it, then again, like we

1031
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:36.280
<v Speaker 2>got to be careful how we talk about this because

1032
00:54:36.280 --> 00:54:39.000
<v Speaker 2>this is a death penalty case that's ongoing, and these

1033
00:54:39.039 --> 00:54:41.920
<v Speaker 2>are real people. I don't want to prejudice the case.

1034
00:54:42.519 --> 00:54:44.840
<v Speaker 2>I don't want to say something that it's not supported

1035
00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:48.519
<v Speaker 2>or what have you. But what I would like to

1036
00:54:48.559 --> 00:54:53.360
<v Speaker 2>know about that case is if Maurice Quick did it.

1037
00:54:53.400 --> 00:54:55.719
<v Speaker 2>If Quick did it, who put him up to it?

1038
00:54:55.960 --> 00:54:58.960
<v Speaker 2>Because he was twenty years old, I guarantee you he

1039
00:54:59.000 --> 00:55:02.480
<v Speaker 2>did not take out these to veteran special operators aged

1040
00:55:02.519 --> 00:55:07.000
<v Speaker 2>thirty seven and forty four, both of whom were really

1041
00:55:07.039 --> 00:55:09.000
<v Speaker 2>serious dudes that you do not want to mess with.

1042
00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:11.400
<v Speaker 2>It would be hard to take out under any circumstances,

1043
00:55:11.440 --> 00:55:13.639
<v Speaker 2>guys who were always armed, who always kept their head

1044
00:55:13.679 --> 00:55:16.440
<v Speaker 2>on the swivel. How he could have done that by

1045
00:55:16.519 --> 00:55:22.440
<v Speaker 2>himself really challenges the imagination. Yeah, yeah, and so I

1046
00:55:22.440 --> 00:55:25.119
<v Speaker 2>hope they will look beyond him and see who might

1047
00:55:25.159 --> 00:55:26.880
<v Speaker 2>have been who might have put him up to it.

1048
00:55:28.119 --> 00:55:30.719
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, twenty year old kid out on the drop zone

1049
00:55:30.719 --> 00:55:32.400
<v Speaker 1>at Fort Bragg, killing two.

1050
00:55:34.039 --> 00:55:36.440
<v Speaker 2>Why was he at Fort Bragg? Weird? He has no

1051
00:55:36.480 --> 00:55:40.480
<v Speaker 2>connections to that base. He lived an hour away. He

1052
00:55:40.519 --> 00:55:43.199
<v Speaker 2>had all of his previous arrests, by the way, took

1053
00:55:43.239 --> 00:55:47.039
<v Speaker 2>place in his town of Laurenburg, North Carolina. He had

1054
00:55:47.039 --> 00:55:49.800
<v Speaker 2>been arrested there multiple times and is accused of having

1055
00:55:49.880 --> 00:55:52.920
<v Speaker 2>committed a murder there. At one point he was arrested,

1056
00:55:52.960 --> 00:55:55.639
<v Speaker 2>there was like this shootout of these these a group

1057
00:55:55.639 --> 00:55:59.920
<v Speaker 2>of guys met at this at this trailer to do

1058
00:56:00.079 --> 00:56:03.000
<v Speaker 2>a drug deal and it erupted into a close quarters

1059
00:56:03.039 --> 00:56:06.440
<v Speaker 2>gunfight and there was like three guys laying dead. Kenneth

1060
00:56:06.480 --> 00:56:11.920
<v Speaker 2>Maurice Quick laying there shot several times. Police came arrested him,

1061
00:56:11.920 --> 00:56:13.639
<v Speaker 2>and once he recovered from his wounds, he was charged

1062
00:56:13.639 --> 00:56:15.360
<v Speaker 2>with killing one of those other guys. So I don't

1063
00:56:15.360 --> 00:56:18.320
<v Speaker 2>doubt that he is capable or if everything the police

1064
00:56:18.320 --> 00:56:20.679
<v Speaker 2>alleged about him is true, it seems that he is

1065
00:56:20.760 --> 00:56:25.039
<v Speaker 2>capable of killing somebody. But again, why these guys? Why

1066
00:56:25.119 --> 00:56:28.599
<v Speaker 2>for Bragg? Another thing is the ballistic evidence. Quick was

1067
00:56:28.719 --> 00:56:32.800
<v Speaker 2>arrested like three or four times for an unlawful possession

1068
00:56:32.800 --> 00:56:35.559
<v Speaker 2>of a firearm by a felon, and he always carried

1069
00:56:35.559 --> 00:56:39.159
<v Speaker 2>a glock. He always carried a nine millimeter glock, and

1070
00:56:39.320 --> 00:56:42.960
<v Speaker 2>the weapon that was used to kill Dumas was apparently

1071
00:56:43.039 --> 00:56:45.639
<v Speaker 2>a twenty two or a three eighty. So maybe a

1072
00:56:45.639 --> 00:56:48.840
<v Speaker 2>small detail, but it's one more reason to question like

1073
00:56:49.599 --> 00:56:52.920
<v Speaker 2>what exactly the evidence is against Quick and he's pleaded

1074
00:56:52.960 --> 00:56:54.880
<v Speaker 2>not guilty by the way, which is an important point.

1075
00:56:54.960 --> 00:56:55.880
<v Speaker 2>That's interesting. Yeah.

1076
00:56:56.599 --> 00:57:00.760
<v Speaker 1>I So one of the big quest inestion that comes

1077
00:57:00.760 --> 00:57:04.119
<v Speaker 1>out of this book for me is what is the

1078
00:57:04.159 --> 00:57:08.800
<v Speaker 1>relationship between special Operations on Fort Bragg and the Cumberland

1079
00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:13.679
<v Speaker 1>County Police. Because the police department gives so many free

1080
00:57:13.679 --> 00:57:18.360
<v Speaker 1>passes to these guys for murder, rape, drug trafficking, I mean,

1081
00:57:18.400 --> 00:57:21.719
<v Speaker 1>really serious crimes, it gets to the point where it's like,

1082
00:57:21.760 --> 00:57:24.800
<v Speaker 1>come on, man, what are we doing here? What's really

1083
00:57:24.840 --> 00:57:28.880
<v Speaker 1>going on here? Is there some sort of money transactional

1084
00:57:29.039 --> 00:57:30.159
<v Speaker 1>relationship happening?

1085
00:57:30.199 --> 00:57:33.840
<v Speaker 2>What is it? Because it doesn't make sense. Yeah, I've

1086
00:57:33.880 --> 00:57:38.519
<v Speaker 2>never seen any evidence of money changing hands. There is

1087
00:57:38.559 --> 00:57:40.639
<v Speaker 2>a lot, you know, we've heard over the years in

1088
00:57:40.679 --> 00:57:42.679
<v Speaker 2>general in the United States, there's a lot of corruption

1089
00:57:42.800 --> 00:57:47.440
<v Speaker 2>in sheriff's departments and among sheriff's deputies, particularly in small towns.

1090
00:57:48.159 --> 00:57:50.719
<v Speaker 2>That said, the dynamic that I see and perceive that

1091
00:57:50.840 --> 00:57:53.840
<v Speaker 2>was explained to me by unit employees like Courtney Williams,

1092
00:57:54.639 --> 00:57:57.119
<v Speaker 2>is that they have processes in place when one of

1093
00:57:57.119 --> 00:57:59.960
<v Speaker 2>their guys turns up in handcuffs. You know, they really

1094
00:58:00.079 --> 00:58:02.320
<v Speaker 2>spring into action and try to make it go away.

1095
00:58:02.440 --> 00:58:04.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean they that's they really do try to make

1096
00:58:04.920 --> 00:58:07.599
<v Speaker 2>it go away. They try to because Delta Force doesn't

1097
00:58:07.599 --> 00:58:10.119
<v Speaker 2>want any press positive or negative. You know this as

1098
00:58:10.159 --> 00:58:10.719
<v Speaker 2>well as I do.

1099
00:58:10.840 --> 00:58:14.639
<v Speaker 1>They what they like probably fear the most is increased

1100
00:58:14.719 --> 00:58:16.920
<v Speaker 1>legislation and increased oversight.

1101
00:58:17.079 --> 00:58:19.519
<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, and they really want to avoid that, right,

1102
00:58:19.840 --> 00:58:22.239
<v Speaker 2>So you can see the incentives that are at work.

1103
00:58:22.559 --> 00:58:25.599
<v Speaker 2>It may not necessarily be that they have such that

1104
00:58:25.719 --> 00:58:28.320
<v Speaker 2>they hold guys like Billy Levine and Chris vayeho and

1105
00:58:28.400 --> 00:58:30.599
<v Speaker 2>Is a high esteem and they want to protect him,

1106
00:58:30.599 --> 00:58:34.199
<v Speaker 2>They want to protect the unit, right, And so it's

1107
00:58:34.199 --> 00:58:37.320
<v Speaker 2>not hard to imagine the power dynamics there because you're

1108
00:58:37.320 --> 00:58:40.400
<v Speaker 2>talking about a relatively small town. You know, the DA

1109
00:58:40.519 --> 00:58:44.800
<v Speaker 2>is just a country lawyer, basically Billy West dealing with Jaysok,

1110
00:58:44.920 --> 00:58:46.840
<v Speaker 2>you know, which is one of the most you know,

1111
00:58:47.000 --> 00:58:50.400
<v Speaker 2>central institutions of the US government with incredible powers that

1112
00:58:50.440 --> 00:58:52.920
<v Speaker 2>we really only know a fraction of.

1113
00:58:53.360 --> 00:58:59.800
<v Speaker 1>So and Freddie Huff is in prison still to this day.

1114
00:59:01.119 --> 00:59:04.679
<v Speaker 1>So and Thacker is still in prison. And the person

1115
00:59:04.719 --> 00:59:07.960
<v Speaker 1>who's been accused of murdering Billy and dumonts or in prison.

1116
00:59:08.039 --> 00:59:10.599
<v Speaker 2>So you know, you.

1117
00:59:10.519 --> 00:59:14.079
<v Speaker 1>Point to Fort Bragg being like, I don't know if

1118
00:59:14.119 --> 00:59:16.559
<v Speaker 1>this is right or not, but you make it sort

1119
00:59:16.599 --> 00:59:18.079
<v Speaker 1>of sound like in your book, like it is this

1120
00:59:18.119 --> 00:59:21.639
<v Speaker 1>sort of like toxic hub of murder and drug trafficking.

1121
00:59:21.840 --> 00:59:25.320
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's Fort Bragg like uniquely bad by comparison

1122
00:59:25.360 --> 00:59:26.960
<v Speaker 1>to other military installations.

1123
00:59:27.039 --> 00:59:29.800
<v Speaker 2>In your research, I mean it seems that way to me.

1124
00:59:30.000 --> 00:59:33.639
<v Speaker 2>That's exactly what I've been saying all this time, is

1125
00:59:33.679 --> 00:59:36.639
<v Speaker 2>that this is not normal for a military base to

1126
00:59:36.639 --> 00:59:40.599
<v Speaker 2>have this many murders and this many deaths. And people

1127
00:59:40.599 --> 00:59:43.920
<v Speaker 2>will say, well, Fort Bragg's the biggest base, and it is,

1128
00:59:43.960 --> 00:59:46.800
<v Speaker 2>but on a per capitol level still it's much higher

1129
00:59:46.840 --> 00:59:50.159
<v Speaker 2>than any other bases. You know, a soldier dies at

1130
00:59:50.199 --> 00:59:55.480
<v Speaker 2>Fort Bragg every week. That's a really high mortality rate

1131
00:59:55.480 --> 00:59:58.039
<v Speaker 2>when you're talking about a population of fifty thousand young

1132
00:59:58.119 --> 01:00:02.360
<v Speaker 2>men who are all physically fit, like by definition, and

1133
01:00:02.480 --> 01:00:05.199
<v Speaker 2>the primary cause of death is suicide. We know that

1134
01:00:05.239 --> 01:00:07.440
<v Speaker 2>the suicide rate at Fort Bragg is like four times

1135
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:10.960
<v Speaker 2>a national average and is significantly higher than any other

1136
01:00:11.039 --> 01:00:14.239
<v Speaker 2>military base. There's also a ton of overdoses at Fort Bragg,

1137
01:00:14.280 --> 01:00:18.519
<v Speaker 2>which we have rock solid data from the Department of Defense,

1138
01:00:18.519 --> 01:00:22.239
<v Speaker 2>which Senator Edward Marky secured after reading one of my stories,

1139
01:00:22.320 --> 01:00:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Rolling Stone, he got the Pentagon turnover this data, and

1140
01:00:27.360 --> 01:00:29.519
<v Speaker 2>it shows just what I had alleged, which is at

1141
01:00:29.519 --> 01:00:33.239
<v Speaker 2>the overdose rate there is way higher than any other

1142
01:00:33.280 --> 01:00:36.840
<v Speaker 2>military base in both absolute and per capita terms. Those

1143
01:00:36.880 --> 01:00:39.760
<v Speaker 2>being the two highest causes of death are the most

1144
01:00:39.760 --> 01:00:44.320
<v Speaker 2>frequent causes of death. By itself demonstrates there's a problem

1145
01:00:44.360 --> 01:00:47.440
<v Speaker 2>here with this culture. And then on top of that,

1146
01:00:47.440 --> 01:00:51.000
<v Speaker 2>there's all these unsolved murders. A little harder to quantify,

1147
01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:54.039
<v Speaker 2>but you know, I'm tracking like maybe twenty four cases

1148
01:00:54.079 --> 01:00:56.800
<v Speaker 2>of Fort Bragg soldiers who have been either murdered or

1149
01:00:56.920 --> 01:00:59.440
<v Speaker 2>convicted of murder or charged with murder since twenty twenty.

1150
01:01:00.360 --> 01:01:02.440
<v Speaker 2>Very hard to compare that to other bases because you know,

1151
01:01:02.519 --> 01:01:04.199
<v Speaker 2>I had to piece together this data. There's not like

1152
01:01:04.199 --> 01:01:06.719
<v Speaker 2>a repository of that type of data. But I just

1153
01:01:06.880 --> 01:01:08.960
<v Speaker 2>have there been twenty murders at Fort Hood. I mean,

1154
01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:10.679
<v Speaker 2>I know there were a lot at a certain point,

1155
01:01:10.719 --> 01:01:13.599
<v Speaker 2>there was like six in a row, but I don't

1156
01:01:13.599 --> 01:01:15.639
<v Speaker 2>see it. I think Fort Bragg is pretty unique in

1157
01:01:15.639 --> 01:01:18.800
<v Speaker 2>this regard, and it could use some oversight in this regard.

1158
01:01:19.800 --> 01:01:22.239
<v Speaker 1>All right, So let's talk a little bit about the

1159
01:01:22.280 --> 01:01:25.840
<v Speaker 1>response to the book. It's been out for what two

1160
01:01:25.840 --> 01:01:30.280
<v Speaker 1>weeks now, and I mean it's definitely taken off. It's

1161
01:01:30.280 --> 01:01:32.440
<v Speaker 1>gotten a lot of attention, a lot of needed attention.

1162
01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:35.840
<v Speaker 1>I think, what has the response been like from the

1163
01:01:35.880 --> 01:01:37.760
<v Speaker 1>public and from the military community.

1164
01:01:39.079 --> 01:01:41.800
<v Speaker 2>The response has been, on the whole, it's been really positive.

1165
01:01:41.840 --> 01:01:43.559
<v Speaker 2>You know, I thought the book would do well. My

1166
01:01:43.719 --> 01:01:46.800
<v Speaker 2>editor had a lot of confidence in it. None of

1167
01:01:46.840 --> 01:01:49.360
<v Speaker 2>us expected it to be like a massive bestseller, like

1168
01:01:49.400 --> 01:01:51.519
<v Speaker 2>on the top of the New York Times bestseller list,

1169
01:01:53.039 --> 01:01:56.800
<v Speaker 2>and that has really amplified, you know, the response that

1170
01:01:56.840 --> 01:02:00.039
<v Speaker 2>I've gotten from the military community, which actually is and

1171
01:02:00.119 --> 01:02:02.079
<v Speaker 2>a lot of cases, is very positive. I get letters

1172
01:02:02.280 --> 01:02:05.239
<v Speaker 2>or emails and messages every day from veterans who tell

1173
01:02:05.280 --> 01:02:07.679
<v Speaker 2>me more stories, just said that they liked the book,

1174
01:02:07.679 --> 01:02:09.880
<v Speaker 2>they dug it, and they can add this or that.

1175
01:02:10.760 --> 01:02:14.599
<v Speaker 2>But there is a significant component in like the operator community,

1176
01:02:14.719 --> 01:02:20.440
<v Speaker 2>I think, who are really resentful of how adversarial you

1177
01:02:20.480 --> 01:02:23.440
<v Speaker 2>know the book is. What an aggressive line I took

1178
01:02:23.440 --> 01:02:25.519
<v Speaker 2>you against them, which you know I can totally own,

1179
01:02:25.599 --> 01:02:28.400
<v Speaker 2>Like it's not only because of this criminal stuff, but

1180
01:02:28.440 --> 01:02:31.920
<v Speaker 2>also because I strongly oppose the post nine to eleven

1181
01:02:32.159 --> 01:02:35.239
<v Speaker 2>war paradigm that these guys have been front and center

1182
01:02:35.280 --> 01:02:39.719
<v Speaker 2>and prosecuting for years. So I get asked, I do

1183
01:02:39.800 --> 01:02:44.800
<v Speaker 2>get threats, nothing specific so far, but the tempo has

1184
01:02:44.840 --> 01:02:48.079
<v Speaker 2>definitely been increasing. I've seen stuff online that does cause

1185
01:02:48.119 --> 01:02:52.519
<v Speaker 2>me to worry, and my team, you know, all of

1186
01:02:52.559 --> 01:02:54.639
<v Speaker 2>them have I've kind of laughed all the stuff off.

1187
01:02:54.679 --> 01:02:57.760
<v Speaker 2>I've never let that effect anything that I wrote or

1188
01:02:57.800 --> 01:03:00.639
<v Speaker 2>affect anything that I did in any way. But I've

1189
01:03:00.679 --> 01:03:02.800
<v Speaker 2>gotten to the point where so many people have asked me,

1190
01:03:02.960 --> 01:03:05.719
<v Speaker 2>am I not concerned about security that I feel like

1191
01:03:05.800 --> 01:03:08.639
<v Speaker 2>I need to. Yeah, I do need to take measures.

1192
01:03:10.039 --> 01:03:12.840
<v Speaker 2>But before I do any of that stuff, before I

1193
01:03:12.880 --> 01:03:16.039
<v Speaker 2>go into hiding, like what's his name, Salmon Rushti or something,

1194
01:03:16.960 --> 01:03:18.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, I would just like to I know a

1195
01:03:18.320 --> 01:03:20.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of these guys watch your show, so I would

1196
01:03:20.480 --> 01:03:23.400
<v Speaker 2>liked if any of them are watching these guys that are, allegedly,

1197
01:03:23.440 --> 01:03:26.400
<v Speaker 2>according to these suspicions, that are plotting to like kill me,

1198
01:03:27.639 --> 01:03:32.800
<v Speaker 2>I would just say why, Because you know, I am

1199
01:03:33.159 --> 01:03:36.800
<v Speaker 2>an American patriot. I was born in Texas, and you

1200
01:03:36.840 --> 01:03:40.119
<v Speaker 2>know I went to public school, I went I served

1201
01:03:40.119 --> 01:03:42.679
<v Speaker 2>in the Army, I worked for I was a lawyer.

1202
01:03:42.679 --> 01:03:45.800
<v Speaker 2>I worked for the Texas State government. I Am not

1203
01:03:46.000 --> 01:03:51.679
<v Speaker 2>some wild eyed, crazy, I don't know, woke whatever culture warrior.

1204
01:03:52.159 --> 01:03:55.079
<v Speaker 2>That's not where I'm coming from at this and I

1205
01:03:55.199 --> 01:03:57.639
<v Speaker 2>was never it was never my intention to like throw

1206
01:03:57.719 --> 01:04:01.840
<v Speaker 2>shade on anyone's service. The stuff that I write about

1207
01:04:01.880 --> 01:04:04.920
<v Speaker 2>in the book are crimes. They're serious crimes. You're talking

1208
01:04:04.920 --> 01:04:09.800
<v Speaker 2>about drug trafficking, murder, rape, all this stuff. I'm an

1209
01:04:09.840 --> 01:04:13.280
<v Speaker 2>investigative reporter. That's what I'm supposed to do, especially when

1210
01:04:13.320 --> 01:04:17.119
<v Speaker 2>it's apparently related to this elite military unit. Do I

1211
01:04:17.159 --> 01:04:20.039
<v Speaker 2>not have the right and actually the obligation as a

1212
01:04:20.079 --> 01:04:22.840
<v Speaker 2>reporter to look into this type of stuff? You really

1213
01:04:22.880 --> 01:04:25.199
<v Speaker 2>want me to sugarcoat it and write on every page, well,

1214
01:04:25.239 --> 01:04:28.760
<v Speaker 2>these guys are heroes, and thank them for their service.

1215
01:04:29.039 --> 01:04:30.639
<v Speaker 2>And I just want to talk about these bad apples.

1216
01:04:30.679 --> 01:04:32.239
<v Speaker 2>I don't waste any time with that. I'm just telling

1217
01:04:32.239 --> 01:04:36.159
<v Speaker 2>the story, right. And if guys are so offended by it,

1218
01:04:36.480 --> 01:04:40.320
<v Speaker 2>are they really gonna murder a US journalist on US

1219
01:04:40.360 --> 01:04:45.320
<v Speaker 2>soil to protect their impunity to commit these serious felonies

1220
01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:49.320
<v Speaker 2>like in make our country like a third world country,

1221
01:04:49.719 --> 01:04:52.119
<v Speaker 2>you know where journalists get killed for writing about these

1222
01:04:52.199 --> 01:04:53.639
<v Speaker 2>legitimate stories.

1223
01:04:53.480 --> 01:04:55.639
<v Speaker 1>Like I would point out, you know, Seth Harp did

1224
01:04:55.719 --> 01:04:59.360
<v Speaker 1>not invent the criminal activity that you depict in your book.

1225
01:04:59.400 --> 01:05:01.760
<v Speaker 1>I mean, it's not your fault that these things happen.

1226
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:05.280
<v Speaker 1>You're writing about it and telling people that there's a problem,

1227
01:05:06.239 --> 01:05:07.920
<v Speaker 1>and they need to be told it's a problem because

1228
01:05:07.920 --> 01:05:10.000
<v Speaker 1>they've ignored it over and over and over again.

1229
01:05:10.119 --> 01:05:13.880
<v Speaker 5>Yeah, do you know for a fact that it's that

1230
01:05:14.000 --> 01:05:16.679
<v Speaker 5>it is like operators and soldiers that are doing this

1231
01:05:16.800 --> 01:05:20.480
<v Speaker 5>or is it fanboys that are saying that they are

1232
01:05:20.880 --> 01:05:24.639
<v Speaker 5>because I and not that they wouldn't, you know.

1233
01:05:24.639 --> 01:05:26.719
<v Speaker 4>Not that there aren't guys out there that wouldn't, but

1234
01:05:26.840 --> 01:05:31.559
<v Speaker 4>I know, especially with like Alpha and with Code over Country,

1235
01:05:32.480 --> 01:05:37.039
<v Speaker 4>that that like a lot of the vitriol came from,

1236
01:05:37.360 --> 01:05:42.000
<v Speaker 4>like uh, like the fans, right, the how dare you

1237
01:05:42.599 --> 01:05:46.679
<v Speaker 4>uh talk shit about US service members or Navy seals

1238
01:05:46.760 --> 01:05:50.960
<v Speaker 4>or these brave heroes you know? And I mean I

1239
01:05:51.480 --> 01:05:54.119
<v Speaker 4>would just add on to that that look at if

1240
01:05:54.239 --> 01:05:57.519
<v Speaker 4>if you're if you're a soldier or a veteran or

1241
01:05:57.559 --> 01:06:02.280
<v Speaker 4>even a you know, somebody who admires the military, this

1242
01:06:02.360 --> 01:06:04.559
<v Speaker 4>kind of stuff is important and for you to try

1243
01:06:04.559 --> 01:06:07.400
<v Speaker 4>to shut down a journalist who is writing on this

1244
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:13.159
<v Speaker 4>stuff again, you know, this isn't like some leftist rant

1245
01:06:13.280 --> 01:06:17.679
<v Speaker 4>about the evils of the US military. This shit, this

1246
01:06:17.719 --> 01:06:21.000
<v Speaker 4>stuff needs to get policed up. Like if you're proud

1247
01:06:21.039 --> 01:06:24.239
<v Speaker 4>of the military, then you should be proud of people

1248
01:06:24.280 --> 01:06:27.920
<v Speaker 4>like Seth who exposed this kind of stuff, because this

1249
01:06:28.000 --> 01:06:32.320
<v Speaker 4>weakens the military. This this you know, these units with

1250
01:06:32.400 --> 01:06:35.679
<v Speaker 4>this highest spree accord in this high you know, level

1251
01:06:35.760 --> 01:06:39.519
<v Speaker 4>of performance should not have these type of people in

1252
01:06:39.599 --> 01:06:44.159
<v Speaker 4>the unit. And you know, and if if like it's

1253
01:06:44.280 --> 01:06:49.320
<v Speaker 4>it's a process of you know, TBIs and post traumatic

1254
01:06:49.360 --> 01:06:52.079
<v Speaker 4>stress and things like that that lead to stuff like this,

1255
01:06:52.440 --> 01:06:56.760
<v Speaker 4>then the command should be sitting up and seeing this

1256
01:06:56.840 --> 01:07:00.360
<v Speaker 4>stuff and not ignoring it until it gets to this point.

1257
01:07:00.519 --> 01:07:03.800
<v Speaker 2>So, yeah, thank you for saying, sodell, I appreciate that.

1258
01:07:04.159 --> 01:07:07.079
<v Speaker 2>And you know a lot of guys will strongly disagree

1259
01:07:07.119 --> 01:07:09.880
<v Speaker 2>with the stuff that I wrote about US foreign policy

1260
01:07:10.039 --> 01:07:14.519
<v Speaker 2>and against foreign wars, and that's okay. It should be

1261
01:07:14.559 --> 01:07:16.840
<v Speaker 2>okay because we have the First Amendment right to talk

1262
01:07:16.880 --> 01:07:20.480
<v Speaker 2>about these things that are important to our country and

1263
01:07:20.519 --> 01:07:23.440
<v Speaker 2>to our government. But there ought to be a confluence

1264
01:07:23.440 --> 01:07:25.880
<v Speaker 2>of interest to at a minimum, wherever you stand on

1265
01:07:25.920 --> 01:07:28.599
<v Speaker 2>that spectrum, you should not want, you know, people in

1266
01:07:28.719 --> 01:07:32.960
<v Speaker 2>units like Delta Force to be committing murders and doing

1267
01:07:33.000 --> 01:07:35.360
<v Speaker 2>drug trafficking and getting away with it. I don't understand

1268
01:07:35.360 --> 01:07:37.840
<v Speaker 2>who that would help or who would stand up in

1269
01:07:37.920 --> 01:07:38.599
<v Speaker 2>defense of that.

1270
01:07:39.280 --> 01:07:41.480
<v Speaker 1>I think this book also comes at kind of an

1271
01:07:41.480 --> 01:07:44.679
<v Speaker 1>interesting period of time where the wars have sort.

1272
01:07:44.440 --> 01:07:45.159
<v Speaker 2>Of wound down.

1273
01:07:45.719 --> 01:07:48.760
<v Speaker 1>You have this population of veterans that are now retiring

1274
01:07:48.800 --> 01:07:50.920
<v Speaker 1>from the military or getting out of the military, and

1275
01:07:50.920 --> 01:07:53.280
<v Speaker 1>they're in civilian life, and they're kind of having to

1276
01:07:53.320 --> 01:07:56.239
<v Speaker 1>process that experience and what it meant to them, what

1277
01:07:56.320 --> 01:07:59.719
<v Speaker 1>it was. As the years go on, you know, you

1278
01:07:59.760 --> 01:08:01.440
<v Speaker 1>see you hit the We're kind of getting to the

1279
01:08:01.440 --> 01:08:06.000
<v Speaker 1>time period where guys find themselves in AA programs, finding

1280
01:08:06.039 --> 01:08:08.320
<v Speaker 1>religion in many cases, like there's a lot it's a

1281
01:08:08.320 --> 01:08:12.360
<v Speaker 1>period of reflection, I think, on the global War on Terror,

1282
01:08:13.079 --> 01:08:16.319
<v Speaker 1>and there's a lot of things that happened during the

1283
01:08:16.319 --> 01:08:19.159
<v Speaker 1>war that got swept under the carpet, some ugly stuff

1284
01:08:19.399 --> 01:08:21.520
<v Speaker 1>that's going to come out. It's in this book, it's

1285
01:08:21.520 --> 01:08:22.720
<v Speaker 1>going to come out in other books.

1286
01:08:23.760 --> 01:08:29.159
<v Speaker 2>In Billy Levine's memoir, he describes in three cases committing

1287
01:08:29.239 --> 01:08:33.760
<v Speaker 2>unlawful killings in the course of Delta Force raids, and

1288
01:08:33.960 --> 01:08:37.079
<v Speaker 2>he just mentions it completely in a completely casual way,

1289
01:08:37.640 --> 01:08:40.960
<v Speaker 2>as as if like no one would even question that.

1290
01:08:41.159 --> 01:08:43.920
<v Speaker 2>He doesn't even seem to know what he's saying. I'll

1291
01:08:43.920 --> 01:08:47.880
<v Speaker 2>tell you one example, the twenty fifteen raid that killed

1292
01:08:47.920 --> 01:08:53.319
<v Speaker 2>that Isis financier Abu sayef Oh in Syria. It was

1293
01:08:53.319 --> 01:08:55.880
<v Speaker 2>the first cross border raid I think kind of kicked

1294
01:08:55.920 --> 01:09:00.319
<v Speaker 2>off the US war in Syria against ISIS. So I

1295
01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:02.079
<v Speaker 2>knew he was on that raid because I had his

1296
01:09:02.199 --> 01:09:06.000
<v Speaker 2>enlistened record and the dates matched, so I knew he participated.

1297
01:09:06.039 --> 01:09:09.119
<v Speaker 2>But in his memoir heves an incredible first person account

1298
01:09:09.199 --> 01:09:12.760
<v Speaker 2>of that which is just it's something. It's like nothing

1299
01:09:12.800 --> 01:09:14.760
<v Speaker 2>I've ever seen before, because, as you know, these guys

1300
01:09:14.760 --> 01:09:16.680
<v Speaker 2>don't talk, and they don't write about books, and when

1301
01:09:16.680 --> 01:09:19.279
<v Speaker 2>they do write about it, they don't talk about operational details.

1302
01:09:19.680 --> 01:09:23.600
<v Speaker 2>Billy broke all those rules. And you know, just one

1303
01:09:23.640 --> 01:09:26.079
<v Speaker 2>little thing I can tell you in that raid that

1304
01:09:26.119 --> 01:09:30.760
<v Speaker 2>he recounts, you know, they had orders to take Abusayev alive.

1305
01:09:32.039 --> 01:09:34.159
<v Speaker 2>Now one of the operators ended up shooting him dead

1306
01:09:34.159 --> 01:09:37.399
<v Speaker 2>because apparently he reached for a pistol. According to Levine.

1307
01:09:37.720 --> 01:09:40.600
<v Speaker 2>While that's happening, you know, Levin's clearing another room and

1308
01:09:40.640 --> 01:09:45.439
<v Speaker 2>his dog takes down a guy that's there, and the

1309
01:09:45.479 --> 01:09:48.039
<v Speaker 2>guy has his arm all shredded from being attacked by

1310
01:09:48.039 --> 01:09:52.159
<v Speaker 2>this canine. And this prisoner is brought to Levine unarmed,

1311
01:09:52.159 --> 01:09:54.560
<v Speaker 2>and Levin specifically says that he had his hands up

1312
01:09:54.600 --> 01:09:56.960
<v Speaker 2>by his head, and Levin said that he moved the

1313
01:09:57.079 --> 01:09:58.760
<v Speaker 2>hair out of the guy's face because I guess he

1314
01:09:58.800 --> 01:10:01.119
<v Speaker 2>had long hair, and when he saw that it wasn't

1315
01:10:01.119 --> 01:10:03.680
<v Speaker 2>Abu sayaf, he shot him in the head and killed him.

1316
01:10:04.239 --> 01:10:07.039
<v Speaker 2>And he even said that, you know, his mouth was

1317
01:10:07.079 --> 01:10:09.359
<v Speaker 2>slightly open when he pulled the trigger, and that a

1318
01:10:09.359 --> 01:10:12.279
<v Speaker 2>piece of the guy's brain matter went straight back into

1319
01:10:12.279 --> 01:10:14.520
<v Speaker 2>the back of his throat and he had to spit

1320
01:10:14.560 --> 01:10:17.159
<v Speaker 2>out a piece of this guy's brain. And he just

1321
01:10:17.199 --> 01:10:21.880
<v Speaker 2>describes this totally illegal killing in a casual way that

1322
01:10:21.960 --> 01:10:24.279
<v Speaker 2>makes me think that it must have been routine. I

1323
01:10:24.279 --> 01:10:26.720
<v Speaker 2>don't know to other guys in the unit that they

1324
01:10:26.800 --> 01:10:32.680
<v Speaker 2>are they that casual about executing prisoners, because that totally

1325
01:10:32.760 --> 01:10:35.359
<v Speaker 2>is totally forbidden by the laws of war. And that

1326
01:10:35.399 --> 01:10:38.359
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make me, you know, a Namby Pamby, you know,

1327
01:10:38.600 --> 01:10:41.319
<v Speaker 2>lawyer e guy type of guy to point that out

1328
01:10:41.359 --> 01:10:44.399
<v Speaker 2>that's fundamental that you don't execute prisoners again, it's like,

1329
01:10:44.720 --> 01:10:47.000
<v Speaker 2>do you want our country to be a third world country? Like,

1330
01:10:47.199 --> 01:10:49.359
<v Speaker 2>do you want the military to be a professional military?

1331
01:10:49.439 --> 01:10:52.760
<v Speaker 2>Like I would certainly say yes, you know. So that's

1332
01:10:52.800 --> 01:10:54.680
<v Speaker 2>just one example about some of the reckoning with some

1333
01:10:54.760 --> 01:10:55.640
<v Speaker 2>of the operation.

1334
01:10:55.840 --> 01:10:57.840
<v Speaker 1>One of the other things I was criticized. I saw

1335
01:10:57.880 --> 01:11:03.880
<v Speaker 1>people criticizing you was you know, and Billy allegedly had

1336
01:11:03.960 --> 01:11:08.880
<v Speaker 1>his canine eat the brains of killed enemy apparently, yeah,

1337
01:11:09.359 --> 01:11:11.920
<v Speaker 1>and people were like, oh, that's not true. That well,

1338
01:11:12.560 --> 01:11:14.920
<v Speaker 1>I spoke to the same person you did, and her

1339
01:11:14.960 --> 01:11:17.399
<v Speaker 1>story was exactly the same as what she told you.

1340
01:11:17.680 --> 01:11:20.680
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, Nicole Rick. Yeah. Not only that, but people

1341
01:11:20.760 --> 01:11:23.239
<v Speaker 2>jump for some reason, people jumped all over that detail

1342
01:11:23.239 --> 01:11:25.039
<v Speaker 2>to say this must be made up, and therefore the

1343
01:11:25.079 --> 01:11:27.800
<v Speaker 2>whole book's made up. The crazy thing is that I

1344
01:11:27.840 --> 01:11:30.680
<v Speaker 2>don't know if you saw this, but somebody on those

1345
01:11:30.760 --> 01:11:35.319
<v Speaker 2>forums then posted a video shot by a drone that

1346
01:11:35.439 --> 01:11:38.119
<v Speaker 2>shows exactly what I was talking about. It was mind

1347
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:41.359
<v Speaker 2>blowing to see this emerge. It showed a canine clearly

1348
01:11:41.399 --> 01:11:43.279
<v Speaker 2>marked as like I don't know if it was Delta,

1349
01:11:43.319 --> 01:11:47.039
<v Speaker 2>but it was clearly a Special Operations knine just absolutely

1350
01:11:47.520 --> 01:11:50.720
<v Speaker 2>going to town on a dead body attacking it in

1351
01:11:50.760 --> 01:11:53.880
<v Speaker 2>the head area in a the vicious way that an

1352
01:11:53.880 --> 01:11:56.479
<v Speaker 2>attack dog would do. So it was like visual proof

1353
01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:59.520
<v Speaker 2>of exactly what I wish you were making this stuff up.

1354
01:12:00.079 --> 01:12:03.600
<v Speaker 1>I really do, me too, because it's so painful and

1355
01:12:03.640 --> 01:12:06.800
<v Speaker 1>it's it makes all of us very uncomfortable, right, yeah,

1356
01:12:06.920 --> 01:12:10.079
<v Speaker 1>to have to address it, but again it gets worse

1357
01:12:10.079 --> 01:12:10.960
<v Speaker 1>and worse if you don't.

1358
01:12:11.319 --> 01:12:13.880
<v Speaker 2>You stand up to it and look, that's not necessarily

1359
01:12:13.960 --> 01:12:15.640
<v Speaker 2>you don't have to see that as necessarily as a

1360
01:12:15.720 --> 01:12:18.079
<v Speaker 2>war crime. Like it's an attack dog and the body

1361
01:12:18.079 --> 01:12:21.359
<v Speaker 2>it's a dead body. You know, dogs are gonna be dogs.

1362
01:12:22.079 --> 01:12:25.279
<v Speaker 2>But it illustrates the brutality of the world that these

1363
01:12:25.279 --> 01:12:27.760
<v Speaker 2>guys come up in. And you see that on every

1364
01:12:27.760 --> 01:12:30.840
<v Speaker 2>page of Billy Levine's memoir where he's talking about participating

1365
01:12:31.239 --> 01:12:33.319
<v Speaker 2>in all these raids, and you can just feel like

1366
01:12:33.399 --> 01:12:37.520
<v Speaker 2>that anger and you know, aggression that he later takes

1367
01:12:37.520 --> 01:12:39.359
<v Speaker 2>out on the people. Because I didn't get into the

1368
01:12:39.399 --> 01:12:41.600
<v Speaker 2>half of it unfortunately. I mean, for reading his memoir,

1369
01:12:41.680 --> 01:12:45.199
<v Speaker 2>I realize I only covered about half, maybe let's say

1370
01:12:45.199 --> 01:12:46.760
<v Speaker 2>half of the stuff that he was up to in

1371
01:12:46.760 --> 01:12:50.920
<v Speaker 2>Fayeville in the eighteen months after Mark was murdered. In

1372
01:12:51.039 --> 01:12:54.920
<v Speaker 2>between and when Billy was murdered during that time. This

1373
01:12:54.960 --> 01:12:58.199
<v Speaker 2>guy was out of his fucking mind and he was

1374
01:12:58.239 --> 01:13:01.960
<v Speaker 2>going around armed all the time, he casing civilians houses.

1375
01:13:02.000 --> 01:13:03.920
<v Speaker 2>He was convinced that this person was trying to kill him,

1376
01:13:03.960 --> 01:13:05.960
<v Speaker 2>and that person was trying to kill him. He says

1377
01:13:06.000 --> 01:13:09.399
<v Speaker 2>he was working for the cartel. He says that, you know,

1378
01:13:10.119 --> 01:13:12.640
<v Speaker 2>he says, these guys knew what my skill set was,

1379
01:13:13.319 --> 01:13:15.560
<v Speaker 2>and you know, I proved it to them multiple times.

1380
01:13:15.600 --> 01:13:18.960
<v Speaker 2>He's very broadly hinting at having done murders for hire

1381
01:13:19.000 --> 01:13:23.000
<v Speaker 2>for cartel figures around Fayetteville. And he also describes three

1382
01:13:23.159 --> 01:13:27.039
<v Speaker 2>brutal beatings that he gives people who had stolen drugs

1383
01:13:27.039 --> 01:13:29.880
<v Speaker 2>from him or stolen something else from him. And he

1384
01:13:29.920 --> 01:13:33.239
<v Speaker 2>talks about being like totally covered in blood and beating

1385
01:13:33.239 --> 01:13:35.199
<v Speaker 2>the shit out of a guy with a hammer, and

1386
01:13:35.199 --> 01:13:37.279
<v Speaker 2>like he was like he looks around and he sees

1387
01:13:37.319 --> 01:13:39.079
<v Speaker 2>that everyone is afraid of him because he's got his

1388
01:13:39.159 --> 01:13:41.359
<v Speaker 2>shirt off and he's covered in blood, and he's like

1389
01:13:41.760 --> 01:13:44.079
<v Speaker 2>the writing this is if people are gonna admire this

1390
01:13:44.119 --> 01:13:46.760
<v Speaker 2>about him, Like he doesn't realize that he's lost his mind.

1391
01:13:47.880 --> 01:13:50.880
<v Speaker 2>It's really sad and scary to see, like how far

1392
01:13:50.920 --> 01:13:52.319
<v Speaker 2>off the deep end, he was, Is.

1393
01:13:52.279 --> 01:13:56.560
<v Speaker 4>There anything from the memoir, because because you just recently

1394
01:13:56.600 --> 01:14:01.239
<v Speaker 4>got that after this went pressed, anything from the memoir

1395
01:14:01.319 --> 01:14:03.560
<v Speaker 4>that you wish were in here or that would have

1396
01:14:03.640 --> 01:14:04.680
<v Speaker 4>changed something in here?

1397
01:14:05.000 --> 01:14:07.199
<v Speaker 2>Nothing that would have changed it. I wish all of

1398
01:14:07.239 --> 01:14:09.560
<v Speaker 2>it was in there, because you know, I never met

1399
01:14:09.560 --> 01:14:11.439
<v Speaker 2>Billy Levy and I never talked to them, and now

1400
01:14:11.439 --> 01:14:13.399
<v Speaker 2>here I have one hundred and fifty eight pages in

1401
01:14:13.479 --> 01:14:17.000
<v Speaker 2>his own words, and like, if anything, it just emphasizes

1402
01:14:17.079 --> 01:14:18.640
<v Speaker 2>all the stuff that I wrote. It just puts it

1403
01:14:18.680 --> 01:14:21.840
<v Speaker 2>in even stronger terms to where no one could doubt it,

1404
01:14:21.880 --> 01:14:23.920
<v Speaker 2>you know, hearing it from from the horse's mouth.

1405
01:14:24.520 --> 01:14:28.239
<v Speaker 1>Are there in any of the you know, other criticisms, outrages,

1406
01:14:28.680 --> 01:14:30.840
<v Speaker 1>pushback you've gotten on the book, anything else you'd like

1407
01:14:30.920 --> 01:14:36.560
<v Speaker 1>to respond to or clarify for anyone.

1408
01:14:36.880 --> 01:14:40.960
<v Speaker 2>You know, something I say again and again in interviews,

1409
01:14:41.079 --> 01:14:42.760
<v Speaker 2>I really don't dwell on it. In the book. I

1410
01:14:42.800 --> 01:14:46.119
<v Speaker 2>do write it in two places at least, is it

1411
01:14:46.159 --> 01:14:49.439
<v Speaker 2>I don't allege that everyone in Delta Force is a criminal,

1412
01:14:49.800 --> 01:14:53.680
<v Speaker 2>and I don't think that I write. I quote people

1413
01:14:53.760 --> 01:14:56.560
<v Speaker 2>who say that, like the unit, guys kind of separate

1414
01:14:56.640 --> 01:14:59.920
<v Speaker 2>themselves into the group. There's like the guys who don't drink,

1415
01:15:00.039 --> 01:15:02.680
<v Speaker 2>who are like super Christian warriors for God, who by

1416
01:15:02.720 --> 01:15:06.399
<v Speaker 2>their own lights are ethical people, maybe extremely ethical in

1417
01:15:06.439 --> 01:15:10.199
<v Speaker 2>probably a lot of cases. And then there's the other guys.

1418
01:15:10.199 --> 01:15:12.560
<v Speaker 2>And you know, my book really focuses on the other

1419
01:15:12.600 --> 01:15:14.520
<v Speaker 2>guys because you have to pick a subject, and that's

1420
01:15:14.520 --> 01:15:16.199
<v Speaker 2>clearly you know, it's my job to write about the

1421
01:15:16.199 --> 01:15:19.439
<v Speaker 2>bad guys, not the good ones. Right. But I recognize

1422
01:15:19.439 --> 01:15:21.880
<v Speaker 2>and acknowledge that there are people in these units who

1423
01:15:21.920 --> 01:15:24.560
<v Speaker 2>I disagree with the foreign with you know, the wars

1424
01:15:24.600 --> 01:15:26.920
<v Speaker 2>that they have, that they have fought in and participated

1425
01:15:26.920 --> 01:15:30.840
<v Speaker 2>in them. But I recognize that from their perspective, they are,

1426
01:15:31.079 --> 01:15:33.439
<v Speaker 2>you know, doing the right thing, that they joined the

1427
01:15:33.479 --> 01:15:36.359
<v Speaker 2>military for the right reasons, and that by their own,

1428
01:15:36.640 --> 01:15:39.640
<v Speaker 2>you know, internal standards that comported themselves in an ethical way.

1429
01:15:39.640 --> 01:15:42.359
<v Speaker 2>I've never doubted that, and I am not trying to

1430
01:15:42.399 --> 01:15:45.239
<v Speaker 2>say that every single person who's in Delta Forces like

1431
01:15:45.319 --> 01:15:48.880
<v Speaker 2>Billy Levine. So that's just a clarification that I can't

1432
01:15:48.920 --> 01:15:52.039
<v Speaker 2>make often enough to the guys who think that, you know,

1433
01:15:52.600 --> 01:15:54.720
<v Speaker 2>like I said, throwing shade on all of their service,

1434
01:15:54.760 --> 01:15:56.640
<v Speaker 2>that's not what I know what it's like to be,

1435
01:15:56.880 --> 01:15:59.680
<v Speaker 2>to be young and to think that joining the military

1436
01:15:59.680 --> 01:16:01.319
<v Speaker 2>and join the army and be a cool thing to do.

1437
01:16:01.800 --> 01:16:05.359
<v Speaker 2>That's what I did. And you know, my path diverged

1438
01:16:05.359 --> 01:16:07.239
<v Speaker 2>at a certain point from these guys, but I like

1439
01:16:07.319 --> 01:16:09.399
<v Speaker 2>culturally am sympathetic to them. I come from the same

1440
01:16:09.439 --> 01:16:12.880
<v Speaker 2>sort of cultural place, you know, being from rural Texas

1441
01:16:12.920 --> 01:16:16.680
<v Speaker 2>and so forth. So you know, I'm not the you know,

1442
01:16:17.640 --> 01:16:20.239
<v Speaker 2>the enemy that I think a lot of them. I

1443
01:16:20.359 --> 01:16:21.479
<v Speaker 2>think I think that I am.

1444
01:16:21.640 --> 01:16:25.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, what's next, I mean, with all the additional stuff

1445
01:16:25.640 --> 01:16:28.439
<v Speaker 1>that's starting to come to light and this trial will

1446
01:16:28.439 --> 01:16:31.720
<v Speaker 1>probably be resolved on six or twenty twenty seven, do

1447
01:16:31.760 --> 01:16:34.319
<v Speaker 1>you think there's a follow up to the Fort braggcartel.

1448
01:16:34.720 --> 01:16:38.159
<v Speaker 2>We'll see. I'll probably write something maybe for Rolling Stone

1449
01:16:38.199 --> 01:16:42.000
<v Speaker 2>about Billy's memoir and about the revelations that it contains,

1450
01:16:42.039 --> 01:16:44.479
<v Speaker 2>how it reflects on the book, the details that it adds,

1451
01:16:44.680 --> 01:16:47.840
<v Speaker 2>and it's a story in its own right, just hearing

1452
01:16:47.880 --> 01:16:51.720
<v Speaker 2>someone who is so damaged like chronicle their own downfall.

1453
01:16:51.800 --> 01:16:54.000
<v Speaker 2>And again, you know, it really points to the people

1454
01:16:54.039 --> 01:16:56.960
<v Speaker 2>who may have been responsible for his death. Levin and

1455
01:16:57.039 --> 01:17:00.279
<v Speaker 2>his memoir says that he was working with the biggest

1456
01:17:00.319 --> 01:17:03.680
<v Speaker 2>drug trafficker in this part of North Carolina and around Bayeville.

1457
01:17:04.640 --> 01:17:07.560
<v Speaker 2>He says he was a Mexican man named Uno, and

1458
01:17:07.600 --> 01:17:09.159
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if that's the name that he actually

1459
01:17:09.239 --> 01:17:13.039
<v Speaker 2>went by or if that's a pseudonym that Billy made up,

1460
01:17:13.039 --> 01:17:16.760
<v Speaker 2>because he calls a lot of people by their pseudonyms.

1461
01:17:17.399 --> 01:17:19.800
<v Speaker 2>So and then you know, the last chapters of his

1462
01:17:19.920 --> 01:17:23.159
<v Speaker 2>he describes him as a short Mexican guy, featherweight, covered

1463
01:17:23.199 --> 01:17:26.800
<v Speaker 2>head to toe with tattoos, but someone who was very fearsome.

1464
01:17:26.880 --> 01:17:29.000
<v Speaker 2>And there's even one scene where he describes this man

1465
01:17:29.159 --> 01:17:32.279
<v Speaker 2>Uno just brutally beating the shit out of a white

1466
01:17:32.800 --> 01:17:35.680
<v Speaker 2>drug dealer with dreadlocks and then standing over him and

1467
01:17:35.680 --> 01:17:37.840
<v Speaker 2>cutting all of his dreadlocks off with a pair of scissors.

1468
01:17:38.479 --> 01:17:41.159
<v Speaker 2>I mean, the under the view of the Fayetteville underworld

1469
01:17:41.199 --> 01:17:48.000
<v Speaker 2>that Billy Levine's memoir presents is truly incredible, surreal. And

1470
01:17:48.039 --> 01:17:50.520
<v Speaker 2>in the last you know, Billy stopped writing this in

1471
01:17:50.600 --> 01:17:53.720
<v Speaker 2>May twenty twenty, so seven months after before he was killed,

1472
01:17:54.319 --> 01:17:57.840
<v Speaker 2>and the final two chapters of his memoir he is

1473
01:17:57.920 --> 01:18:00.479
<v Speaker 2>talking about how this guy who knows trying to kill him,

1474
01:18:00.560 --> 01:18:03.800
<v Speaker 2>and it's hard to say whether that's paranoia or the

1475
01:18:03.920 --> 01:18:07.640
<v Speaker 2>dude really was And did, so there's a lot to

1476
01:18:07.680 --> 01:18:09.680
<v Speaker 2>explore there. I'll probably write an article about that and

1477
01:18:09.720 --> 01:18:12.199
<v Speaker 2>also cover you know, quicks murder trial.

1478
01:18:14.800 --> 01:18:18.760
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, sadly it was sort of scratching the surface, as

1479
01:18:18.760 --> 01:18:21.119
<v Speaker 1>I think you understand. There's like so much.

1480
01:18:21.000 --> 01:18:28.760
<v Speaker 2>More going on there. Yeah, yeah, seems like it. Mm hmm. Yeah.

1481
01:18:29.439 --> 01:18:32.640
<v Speaker 1>So people can find the Fort back, the Fort Bragg Caartel.

1482
01:18:32.800 --> 01:18:35.000
<v Speaker 1>It's out now, you can find it. Where should people

1483
01:18:35.039 --> 01:18:35.680
<v Speaker 1>go to look for it?

1484
01:18:35.720 --> 01:18:38.840
<v Speaker 2>Seth anywhere books are sold. I know it's sold out

1485
01:18:38.840 --> 01:18:43.079
<v Speaker 2>in a lot of places. Amazon there's like a three

1486
01:18:43.119 --> 01:18:46.920
<v Speaker 2>week wait. A lot of big bookstores are sold out,

1487
01:18:47.039 --> 01:18:49.039
<v Speaker 2>but the last I checked, you could still get it

1488
01:18:49.079 --> 01:18:53.000
<v Speaker 2>in one to two days from Barnes and Noble other

1489
01:18:53.039 --> 01:18:55.880
<v Speaker 2>online booksellers. Check your local bookstore. You can find a

1490
01:18:55.920 --> 01:18:59.920
<v Speaker 2>copy if you if you make an effort, and they've

1491
01:19:00.239 --> 01:19:02.439
<v Speaker 2>send another order to the printer for more copies. So

1492
01:19:02.479 --> 01:19:04.359
<v Speaker 2>if you can't get it right now, just hold on.

1493
01:19:04.439 --> 01:19:05.720
<v Speaker 2>There's more that are.

1494
01:19:06.079 --> 01:19:09.520
<v Speaker 1>They can also check out the ebook that never outsells.

1495
01:19:10.560 --> 01:19:13.960
<v Speaker 2>I don't encourage any of that. I'm about paper paper

1496
01:19:13.960 --> 01:19:17.479
<v Speaker 2>books exclusively, but if folks want to do that, when

1497
01:19:17.479 --> 01:19:20.880
<v Speaker 2>you get their Kendle, I'm not here to judge. But yeah,

1498
01:19:20.880 --> 01:19:22.239
<v Speaker 2>that's an option, all right.

1499
01:19:22.359 --> 01:19:24.399
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's out there if you can't find it in

1500
01:19:24.439 --> 01:19:28.039
<v Speaker 1>the bookshop. Seth anything before we get going, I mean

1501
01:19:28.079 --> 01:19:30.720
<v Speaker 1>anything that I haven't covered or haven't asked you about

1502
01:19:30.760 --> 01:19:32.039
<v Speaker 1>that you want to talk about.

1503
01:19:33.439 --> 01:19:35.600
<v Speaker 2>Not specifically, you know, I'll just say that, you know,

1504
01:19:35.760 --> 01:19:37.840
<v Speaker 2>I call you out in the acknowledgment section of the

1505
01:19:37.840 --> 01:19:41.560
<v Speaker 2>book to talk about your contributions to the investigation. You

1506
01:19:41.640 --> 01:19:43.399
<v Speaker 2>and I talked from time to time while I was

1507
01:19:43.439 --> 01:19:47.159
<v Speaker 2>I appreciate the leads that you gave me, and thanks

1508
01:19:47.199 --> 01:19:48.159
<v Speaker 2>for having me on your show.

1509
01:19:48.600 --> 01:19:52.880
<v Speaker 1>Yeahs coming, absolutely, man. I strongly believe in the kind

1510
01:19:52.880 --> 01:19:56.000
<v Speaker 1>of work that you're doing here. And you know, this

1511
01:19:56.079 --> 01:19:59.359
<v Speaker 1>show is often like almost a celebration of people's military

1512
01:19:59.359 --> 01:20:02.319
<v Speaker 1>service and so many ways, but there are times where

1513
01:20:02.359 --> 01:20:04.600
<v Speaker 1>we do have to talk about the dark side. This book,

1514
01:20:05.159 --> 01:20:09.319
<v Speaker 1>Code over Country, ALP. Yeah, some of these works are important. Also,

1515
01:20:09.640 --> 01:20:11.600
<v Speaker 1>Alpha is a great book, so is Code over Country.

1516
01:20:11.640 --> 01:20:13.960
<v Speaker 1>Both of those books are very well written. I admire

1517
01:20:14.000 --> 01:20:15.760
<v Speaker 1>Matthew Cole and David Phillips very much.

1518
01:20:15.960 --> 01:20:17.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, they're both good writers.

1519
01:20:18.479 --> 01:20:20.960
<v Speaker 1>So for everyone else out there, thank you for joining

1520
01:20:21.039 --> 01:20:24.039
<v Speaker 1>us tonight. Please go check out Seth's book. There'll be

1521
01:20:24.079 --> 01:20:26.640
<v Speaker 1>links down the description also that you can go and

1522
01:20:26.680 --> 01:20:29.640
<v Speaker 1>click on and we'll see all of you guys next time.

1523
01:20:33.720 --> 01:20:34.760
<v Speaker 2>Hey guys, it's Jack.

1524
01:20:34.840 --> 01:20:36.199
<v Speaker 1>I just want to talk to you for a moment

1525
01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:38.399
<v Speaker 1>about how you can support the show. If you've been

1526
01:20:38.439 --> 01:20:40.920
<v Speaker 1>watching it, enjoying it, but you'd like to get a

1527
01:20:40.960 --> 01:20:43.359
<v Speaker 1>little bit more involved and help us continue to do this,

1528
01:20:43.880 --> 01:20:46.960
<v Speaker 1>you can check out our Patreon It is patreon dot

1529
01:20:47.000 --> 01:20:51.119
<v Speaker 1>com slash the Teamhouse, and for five dollars a month,

1530
01:20:51.199 --> 01:20:53.760
<v Speaker 1>you can get access to all of these episodes of

1531
01:20:53.800 --> 01:20:57.960
<v Speaker 1>The Teamhouse ad free. The same goes with our affiliated

1532
01:20:58.000 --> 01:21:01.640
<v Speaker 1>podcast eyes On with Andy Milburgh and Jason Lyons mcmulroy.

1533
01:21:02.439 --> 01:21:04.760
<v Speaker 1>That one you will also get all of those episodes

1534
01:21:04.800 --> 01:21:09.000
<v Speaker 1>add free. And you support the channel and the show,

1535
01:21:09.039 --> 01:21:12.520
<v Speaker 1>and we really appreciate it. The Patreon members are literally

1536
01:21:12.960 --> 01:21:16.159
<v Speaker 1>what has helped this company and this small business survive,

1537
01:21:17.159 --> 01:21:20.840
<v Speaker 1>especially during our early years, and you are what continues

1538
01:21:20.880 --> 01:21:24.000
<v Speaker 1>to help this thing going even as we navigate the

1539
01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:26.640
<v Speaker 1>turbulent world of YouTube advertising.

1540
01:21:26.920 --> 01:21:28.680
<v Speaker 2>So we really appreciate all of you guys.

1541
01:21:29.600 --> 01:21:31.239
<v Speaker 1>There's going to be a link down in the description

1542
01:21:31.359 --> 01:21:34.840
<v Speaker 1>to that Patreon page, and there is also going to

1543
01:21:34.840 --> 01:21:37.680
<v Speaker 1>be a link to our new merch shop, so if

1544
01:21:37.680 --> 01:21:40.039
<v Speaker 1>you guys want to go and get some Teamhouse merchandise,

1545
01:21:40.119 --> 01:21:43.680
<v Speaker 1>we got stickers and we also have patches, and I

1546
01:21:43.680 --> 01:21:46.640
<v Speaker 1>should mention if you sign up for Patreon at ten

1547
01:21:46.680 --> 01:21:48.960
<v Speaker 1>dollars a month, we will mail you this patch as well,

1548
01:21:50.439 --> 01:21:53.840
<v Speaker 1>so we really appreciate that. But they're also for sale

1549
01:21:53.880 --> 01:21:57.439
<v Speaker 1>on the merch shop and additionally, they got t shirts

1550
01:21:57.520 --> 01:22:02.399
<v Speaker 1>up there, water bottles, tote bag, coffee mugs, all that

1551
01:22:02.439 --> 01:22:05.119
<v Speaker 1>good stuff, so please go and check them out and

1552
01:22:05.159 --> 01:22:05.960
<v Speaker 1>support the show.

1553
01:22:06.520 --> 01:22:08.199
<v Speaker 2>We really appreciate it, guys. Thank you,