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<v Speaker 1>This election, I could do this.

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<v Speaker 2>Job mistakes if this race couldn't be hired this store

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<v Speaker 2>president hastab immunity is changing by them minute.

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<v Speaker 1>What came out today fifty.

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<v Speaker 3>Five krs the talk station Ato six here at Pick

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<v Speaker 3>five KRCD talk station. By the time, I swishing you

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<v Speaker 3>a very happy Friday. Been looking forward to this all

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<v Speaker 3>morning since I saw him on the rundown. David Junks

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<v Speaker 3>his name, is the first CEO of Universal Music in Moscow,

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<v Speaker 3>and for a decade he promoted international artists in Russia.

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<v Speaker 3>You know the stars Mariah Carey, Elton, John You, Two, Sting, Banjoe,

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<v Speaker 3>just to name a handful. He was Vice President Eastern

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<v Speaker 3>Europe at Universal Music back in two thousand and three,

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<v Speaker 3>opened the first Universal Music office in Kiv, Ukraine, developed

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<v Speaker 3>music real reality shows for Ukrainian TV, and is a

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<v Speaker 3>founding member of the Russian Music Industry Association and the

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<v Speaker 3>US Ambassador's Task Force on Intellectual Property Rights. Author he

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<v Speaker 3>is David Junk, author of Rock and the Kremlin, My

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<v Speaker 3>incredible true story of gangsters, oligarchs and pop stars in

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<v Speaker 3>Putin's Russia. David, it's great to have you on the

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<v Speaker 3>program this morning.

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<v Speaker 4>Good Morning, Brian. It's an honor to be invited on.

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<v Speaker 4>I appreciate it.

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<v Speaker 3>I just I'm a huge, huge music fan. I just

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<v Speaker 3>love music. I'm jealous of your life in the music industry,

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<v Speaker 3>and I guess you got to see it. And I

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<v Speaker 3>don't want to call it demise. I know there's still

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<v Speaker 3>music being made out there, but the entire landscape of

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<v Speaker 3>the music industry has been so radically changed since the

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<v Speaker 3>advent of the Internet and music sharing. But this predates

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<v Speaker 3>all that, doesn't.

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<v Speaker 4>It, Yes, it does. This is when compact discs were

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<v Speaker 4>the number one cherrier for music, and then prior to that,

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<v Speaker 4>obviously in Russia it was mainly Vinyl that they boot

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<v Speaker 4>legged in from Eastern Europe. So this predates modern technology

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<v Speaker 4>for sure.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, and I've seen you know, articles, those reviews, political

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<v Speaker 3>analysis of maybe how in some of the reasons why

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<v Speaker 3>the Berlin Wall fell, which is the metaphor for the

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<v Speaker 3>Soviet Union collapsing. But the Western influence seeped its way

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<v Speaker 3>into the Iron Curtain for years and years. You know,

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<v Speaker 3>VHS tapes were snuck in with Western content. It was

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<v Speaker 3>under high demand. I remember the old days talking about

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<v Speaker 3>how they loved Levi's jeans, remember that sneaking those in.

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<v Speaker 3>So what was the mood like when you got there,

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<v Speaker 3>because it seemed from the outsider's perspective, and you know,

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<v Speaker 3>we won the Cold War, it seems like it was

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<v Speaker 3>a pretty exciting time for the people. Was it optimistic?

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<v Speaker 4>What?

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<v Speaker 1>What? What was it like?

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<v Speaker 4>It was amazing, Brian. It was one of the great

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<v Speaker 4>moments of the of the century for sure, when when

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<v Speaker 4>the Berlin Wall came down and and and the Soviet

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<v Speaker 4>Union collapsed, and people like me went over there to

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<v Speaker 4>help Russians transition from communism and command economy principles to

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<v Speaker 4>market and supply and demand and capitalism. It was. It

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<v Speaker 4>was really the peak of US Russia relations, and a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of people went to Russia to help in finance,

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<v Speaker 4>oil and gas exploration, things like that. I went and

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<v Speaker 4>helped develop their music industry. So it was totally different

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<v Speaker 4>from a lot of other folks. But but what I

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<v Speaker 4>did had a lasting impact, just as much as any

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<v Speaker 4>other assistance Americans provided to the Russians after the end

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<v Speaker 4>of the Cold War.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, it seems to me you had a pretty much

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<v Speaker 3>built in, almost guaranteed demand for this content.

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<v Speaker 4>Oh sure, I mean, for for a long time. For decades,

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<v Speaker 4>Russians have been listening to Western music, just you know,

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<v Speaker 4>hiding from the censors, right, They would sneak in these albums,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, when someone visited Eastern Europe, one person would

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<v Speaker 4>bring back an album they would hide, and then they

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<v Speaker 4>would make copies of it at a house party and

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<v Speaker 4>share it. And and and that was the original counterfeit

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<v Speaker 4>pirating of music right there. But but but they loved it,

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<v Speaker 4>and and and they they devoured Rolling Stones, Beatles, Pink

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<v Speaker 4>Floyd albums, now Motown. Funny enough was allowed in the

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<v Speaker 4>Soviet sensors would allow music because they liked songs, you know,

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<v Speaker 4>showcasing inner city strife in America. It was good for

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<v Speaker 4>the Soviet ideology to show, you know, and Marvin Gay

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<v Speaker 4>saying about what's going on, you know, the Russians loved that.

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<v Speaker 3>Bobby Woomack, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, all right, well,

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<v Speaker 3>well so that that's what happened.

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<v Speaker 4>But then, but then when Western music came in the

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<v Speaker 4>modern era, they devoured it. They were ready for it,

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<v Speaker 4>they were hungry for it. And I was there to

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<v Speaker 4>bring the best of American pop and rock and hip

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<v Speaker 4>hop music to the Russians.

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<v Speaker 3>And of course, first CEO Universal Music in Moscow. You

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<v Speaker 3>brought a corporate presence and organized money making ability with

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<v Speaker 3>a team in place. How did you navigate and deal

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<v Speaker 3>with the political sort of post fall chaos. I just

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<v Speaker 3>get this impression. As soon as the structure of the

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<v Speaker 3>Soviet Union's and all of these mobsters, gangsters and oligars

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<v Speaker 3>just rushed to fill in the void on that they

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<v Speaker 3>see you making profit outside Western entity making profit. I

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<v Speaker 3>gotta imagine you got you know the shakedown number done

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<v Speaker 3>to you?

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<v Speaker 4>Or am I wrong? Well? You know, it's interesting because

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<v Speaker 4>there was no proper music industry when I got there.

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<v Speaker 4>You know, there was no real ideas of royalty payments

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<v Speaker 4>to artists or songwriter rights, copyrights, none of that. None

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<v Speaker 4>of that was that's here too, and it all had

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<v Speaker 4>to be built from scratch. But the biggest obstacle Brian

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<v Speaker 4>was the Russian mafia had moved in so fast that

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<v Speaker 4>they had controlled They took control of ninety percent of

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<v Speaker 4>the music industry by the time I got there, Oh jeez.

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<v Speaker 4>And they yeah, they were manufacturing these counterfeit CDs that

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<v Speaker 4>they were selling for a dollar two dollars and on

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<v Speaker 4>the black market, and you could have Elton John's greatest

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<v Speaker 4>hits plus his new record, plus anything else you wanted

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<v Speaker 4>for Melton John. They would just put it on one seat,

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<v Speaker 4>you know. They would cherry pick all the great songs

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<v Speaker 4>and and and put it out there, and and and

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<v Speaker 4>and they would export that music also to UH to

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<v Speaker 4>Europe and China, and they would use the money UH

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<v Speaker 4>to to fund terrorism and and sex trafficking and drugs trafficking.

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<v Speaker 4>So it was a really terrible situation when I got there.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, how did you wrestle that one to law and

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<v Speaker 1>order or did you?

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<v Speaker 4>Well, we did have success. We that we definitely were

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<v Speaker 4>able to put pressure on the Kremlin to finally do

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<v Speaker 4>something about it because they were you know, the Russians

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<v Speaker 4>weren't taking uh they weren't considering the possibilities of their

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<v Speaker 4>own music industry. I I I used to always use

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<v Speaker 4>Abba in Sweden as a great example. I would say,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, Abba, you know, Sweden sells more Abba records

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<v Speaker 4>than it does Volvo cars or anything else, and and

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<v Speaker 4>so could Russia, you know. And it's a great tax base,

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<v Speaker 4>it'll bring bring money, it'll create an industry, jobs, et cetera.

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<v Speaker 4>And and that was my Mantra. I was constantly reinforcing that.

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<v Speaker 4>But the biggest step we took was I met with

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<v Speaker 4>the US ambassador in Moscow and asked and pleaded with

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<v Speaker 4>him honestly to do something about the situation. And he uh,

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<v Speaker 4>he persuaded George Bush to block Russia from entering the

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<v Speaker 4>World Trade Organization until they did something about music piracy.

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<v Speaker 4>And and that's and that really worked. That definitely had

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<v Speaker 4>an impact.

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<v Speaker 3>Wow, it's you were in a sort of a help me,

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<v Speaker 3>help you environment in that that particular.

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<v Speaker 2>Situation exactly exactly, and in a vibrant music industry is

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<v Speaker 2>very good for any economy, but especially one transitioning out

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<v Speaker 2>of out of communism.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, of course it's good for the soul.

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, what brings people together better than music, You know,

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<v Speaker 3>it's uplifting or sometimes maybe it's not, but the idea

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<v Speaker 3>that you can embrace something and uh and and especially

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<v Speaker 3>when you've been so void of a presence that has

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<v Speaker 3>been out in the rest of the world for so long,

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<v Speaker 3>I just imagine what it was like just being there

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<v Speaker 3>and being flooded with all of this new material. Just again,

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<v Speaker 3>I go back to the sort of the exciting environment

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<v Speaker 3>that I perceived it was. You also helped develop local

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<v Speaker 3>Russian talent while you were there, didn't you.

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<v Speaker 4>I did, and that's very important for a record company,

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<v Speaker 4>not just to bring in Elton John and Brian Adams

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<v Speaker 4>and Metallic, but also to sign and develop local talent.

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<v Speaker 4>And what I did is I found a few artists

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<v Speaker 4>that I could actually sell abroad too, So I was

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<v Speaker 4>selling Russian music throughout the world, as far away as

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<v Speaker 4>Brazil to Japan, Australia to New Zealand. And of course

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<v Speaker 4>the biggest goal of all was I always wanted to

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<v Speaker 4>be the first record American record executive to bring a

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<v Speaker 4>Russian band to the United States, and I did that.

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<v Speaker 4>So that was the biggest thing for me, is to

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<v Speaker 4>bring Russian music to the US.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, Rock in the Kremlin my incredible true story of gangsters,

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<v Speaker 3>olig archs and pop stars and Putin's Russia the name

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<v Speaker 3>of the book. My guest today, David Johnk's story career

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<v Speaker 3>in the music business.

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<v Speaker 1>Did it end?

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<v Speaker 3>I mean, I guess we saw that we've seen the direction,

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<v Speaker 3>we've just gone to authoritarianism, and we thought this was

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<v Speaker 3>going to be maybe a democratic reality in Russia. They

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<v Speaker 3>might end up being a great trading partner or friends,

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<v Speaker 3>who knows. I mean, hell, in the aftermath of World

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<v Speaker 3>War Two, you didn't really necessarily think that Germany be

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<v Speaker 3>a long term trading partner. Look what happened Japan, the

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<v Speaker 3>same thing. But what of the Soviet Union post Cold War?

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<v Speaker 4>It's really tragic, right. My wife's father was one of

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<v Speaker 4>those there with Boris Yeltsen in the early nineties when

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<v Speaker 4>he was up on the tank. Oh yeah, clamoring for

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<v Speaker 4>democracy in the end of the Soviet Union, and there

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<v Speaker 4>was so much hope for democracy and a future, a

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<v Speaker 4>really bright future for Russia. You know, the Russians have

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<v Speaker 4>one of the highest literacy rates in the world, to

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<v Speaker 4>some of the smartest people in the world. It really

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<v Speaker 4>could have been a tremendous thing for their economy to

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<v Speaker 4>keep growing. But because of well, Boris Jelsen was quite

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<v Speaker 4>drunk all the time, and yes he was, and and

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<v Speaker 4>and then there was a Chechen War, a war in

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<v Speaker 4>Chech that was really causing a lot of problems for

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<v Speaker 4>Russian So that that led to the ascendancy of Putin

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<v Speaker 4>into the Kremlin and things have never been the same since.

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<v Speaker 4>And that that put Russia on the authoritarian track.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh, does.

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<v Speaker 3>Is there still a presence of Universal music in Moscow

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<v Speaker 3>in Russia these days?

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<v Speaker 4>No, there's not, unfortunately, uh well, but but it's proper.

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<v Speaker 4>With the war and the invasion, Western companies have moved out,

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<v Speaker 4>Record companies have moved out, and Universal have definitely moved out.

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<v Speaker 4>There's still a hip hop industry there that I played

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<v Speaker 4>a role in creating twenty five years ago when we

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<v Speaker 4>brought in Eminem and Doctor Dre and Snoop Dogg. That

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<v Speaker 4>really led to the to the development of a local

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<v Speaker 4>hip hop artist community and and bry My. My hope

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<v Speaker 4>is it's that community of young people that will eventually

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<v Speaker 4>lead Rushia to better days and perhaps they'll take back

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<v Speaker 4>the country from the Kremlin somedays.

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<v Speaker 1>How about that.

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<v Speaker 3>It's amazing what music can do to change the country

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<v Speaker 3>and the landscape. Saw it in the late sixties, without question,

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<v Speaker 3>Well real quick before we part. Comedy David Johnes loved

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<v Speaker 3>the conversation. The book's going to be a great read

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<v Speaker 3>for my listeners. You can get it on my blog

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<v Speaker 3>page fifty five Caresey dot com. Rockin the Kremlin? What's

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<v Speaker 3>your perception? And I brought it up at the outset,

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<v Speaker 3>But what's your perception of the modern music industry.

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<v Speaker 1>Is it even an industry anymore?

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<v Speaker 3>Given that, Hell, when I was going to laugh at this,

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<v Speaker 3>when I was a kid, the one of the neatest

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<v Speaker 3>things that was available at music stores they had a

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<v Speaker 3>little cassette. It was a four track recording studio. Miniature things,

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<v Speaker 3>so you could put four tracks on a cassette tape

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<v Speaker 3>and record at home and even over dub at home.

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<v Speaker 3>Now I know modern you can get a ninety seven

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<v Speaker 3>track or whatever, an unlimited number of track computer software

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<v Speaker 3>you can download online and just do all the layering

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<v Speaker 3>with separate tracks. It's just it's home based music. I

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<v Speaker 3>don't need a pretty auction studio anymore. I can just

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<v Speaker 3>put my own music online. What's this done to the

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<v Speaker 3>music industry? And is it still an industry? If I

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<v Speaker 3>may put it that way, David, I have.

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<v Speaker 4>Mixed feelings about that. I'm old school. I I come

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<v Speaker 4>from the era of the supergroups, you know, Journey, Rush,

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<v Speaker 4>Pink Floyd, you know the reb Zeppeline and I and

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<v Speaker 4>I honestly believe bands like that are not going to

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<v Speaker 4>happen in today's modern industry because there's not people gatekeepers

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<v Speaker 4>like I was trying to develop them, but also having

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<v Speaker 4>to to not release every single record that comes out

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<v Speaker 4>from somebody's you know computer, right, That's that's what happens

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<v Speaker 4>now is all music is out there. There's there's no gatekeepers,

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<v Speaker 4>there's no filters. You just get everything. And some people

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<v Speaker 4>like that. Some people like it that there's thousands, thousands

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<v Speaker 4>and thousands of more songs per year released than there

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<v Speaker 4>ever was in the seventies or eighties. But I think

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<v Speaker 4>we've lost that that super group mentality, you know, where

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<v Speaker 4>we'll really appreciate artist artistry of a really great band

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<v Speaker 4>or a really great artist, and they sell millions of

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<v Speaker 4>records instead of thousands of records. So I think it's

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<v Speaker 4>I don't like it myself, but I have two sons

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<v Speaker 4>who make music themselves and put it put it on

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<v Speaker 4>the internet, so you know, it's a generational thing.

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<v Speaker 3>It really is. Well, I'm in your camp, David. I

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<v Speaker 3>think you and I sound like we're roughly got around

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<v Speaker 3>the same age. You mentioned a lot of the bands

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<v Speaker 3>that I like and grew up with, so I have

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<v Speaker 3>a sense of appreciation for where you're coming from. David

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<v Speaker 3>johnk author of Rocking the Kremlin, My Incredible True Story

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<v Speaker 3>of Gangsters, Oligarchson and pop stars and Putin's Rush. You

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<v Speaker 3>get a fifty five Karsey dot Com. David, it's been

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<v Speaker 3>a real enjoyable conversation. I know we're all gonna love

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<v Speaker 3>the book.

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<v Speaker 4>Thank you, Brian, it's been a real great talking to you.

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<v Speaker 4>Really really grateful for it.

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<v Speaker 1>My pleasure, sir, My pleasure. Good luck with all the sales.

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<v Speaker 3>Eight nineteen fifty five Ksity Toxation, Jeff, hang on, buddy,

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<v Speaker 3>I'll take your call.

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<v Speaker 4>Hang on.

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<v Speaker 3>It's like I said eight nineteen, and it's time for

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<v Speaker 3>color electric for residential electric projects called Colin.

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<v Speaker 1>You can do it.

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<v Speaker 3>I do it all the time, anytime I have electrical project.

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<v Speaker 3>community properly. And that's with great residential electric work at

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<v Speaker 3>year wiring warranty and I installed all the canlights in

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<v Speaker 3>my ceilings in my home because I didn't have them

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<v Speaker 3>when the house was built, and I really regret that.

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<v Speaker 3>But why didn't I get them sooner? Because you're walking around,

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