Speaker 1: This election, I could do this.
Speaker 2: Job mistakes if this race couldn't be hired this store
Speaker 2: president hastab immunity is changing by them minute.
Speaker 1: What came out today fifty.
Speaker 3: Five krs the talk station Ato six here at Pick
Speaker 3: five KRCD talk station. By the time, I swishing you
Speaker 3: a very happy Friday. Been looking forward to this all
Speaker 3: morning since I saw him on the rundown. David Junks
Speaker 3: his name, is the first CEO of Universal Music in Moscow,
Speaker 3: and for a decade he promoted international artists in Russia.
Speaker 3: You know the stars Mariah Carey, Elton, John You, Two, Sting, Banjoe,
Speaker 3: just to name a handful. He was Vice President Eastern
Speaker 3: Europe at Universal Music back in two thousand and three,
Speaker 3: opened the first Universal Music office in Kiv, Ukraine, developed
Speaker 3: music real reality shows for Ukrainian TV, and is a
Speaker 3: founding member of the Russian Music Industry Association and the
Speaker 3: US Ambassador's Task Force on Intellectual Property Rights. Author he
Speaker 3: is David Junk, author of Rock and the Kremlin, My
Speaker 3: incredible true story of gangsters, oligarchs and pop stars in
Speaker 3: Putin's Russia. David, it's great to have you on the
Speaker 3: program this morning.
Speaker 4: Good Morning, Brian. It's an honor to be invited on.
Speaker 4: I appreciate it.
Speaker 3: I just I'm a huge, huge music fan. I just
Speaker 3: love music. I'm jealous of your life in the music industry,
Speaker 3: and I guess you got to see it. And I
Speaker 3: don't want to call it demise. I know there's still
Speaker 3: music being made out there, but the entire landscape of
Speaker 3: the music industry has been so radically changed since the
Speaker 3: advent of the Internet and music sharing. But this predates
Speaker 3: all that, doesn't.
Speaker 4: It, Yes, it does. This is when compact discs were
Speaker 4: the number one cherrier for music, and then prior to that,
Speaker 4: obviously in Russia it was mainly Vinyl that they boot
Speaker 4: legged in from Eastern Europe. So this predates modern technology
Speaker 4: for sure.
Speaker 3: Well, and I've seen you know, articles, those reviews, political
Speaker 3: analysis of maybe how in some of the reasons why
Speaker 3: the Berlin Wall fell, which is the metaphor for the
Speaker 3: Soviet Union collapsing. But the Western influence seeped its way
Speaker 3: into the Iron Curtain for years and years. You know,
Speaker 3: VHS tapes were snuck in with Western content. It was
Speaker 3: under high demand. I remember the old days talking about
Speaker 3: how they loved Levi's jeans, remember that sneaking those in.
Speaker 3: So what was the mood like when you got there,
Speaker 3: because it seemed from the outsider's perspective, and you know,
Speaker 3: we won the Cold War, it seems like it was
Speaker 3: a pretty exciting time for the people. Was it optimistic?
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 1: What? What was it like?
Speaker 4: It was amazing, Brian. It was one of the great
Speaker 4: moments of the of the century for sure, when when
Speaker 4: the Berlin Wall came down and and and the Soviet
Speaker 4: Union collapsed, and people like me went over there to
Speaker 4: help Russians transition from communism and command economy principles to
Speaker 4: market and supply and demand and capitalism. It was. It
Speaker 4: was really the peak of US Russia relations, and a
Speaker 4: lot of people went to Russia to help in finance,
Speaker 4: oil and gas exploration, things like that. I went and
Speaker 4: helped develop their music industry. So it was totally different
Speaker 4: from a lot of other folks. But but what I
Speaker 4: did had a lasting impact, just as much as any
Speaker 4: other assistance Americans provided to the Russians after the end
Speaker 4: of the Cold War.
Speaker 3: Well, it seems to me you had a pretty much
Speaker 3: built in, almost guaranteed demand for this content.
Speaker 4: Oh sure, I mean, for for a long time. For decades,
Speaker 4: Russians have been listening to Western music, just you know,
Speaker 4: hiding from the censors, right, They would sneak in these albums,
Speaker 4: you know, when someone visited Eastern Europe, one person would
Speaker 4: bring back an album they would hide, and then they
Speaker 4: would make copies of it at a house party and
Speaker 4: share it. And and and that was the original counterfeit
Speaker 4: pirating of music right there. But but but they loved it,
Speaker 4: and and and they they devoured Rolling Stones, Beatles, Pink
Speaker 4: Floyd albums, now Motown. Funny enough was allowed in the
Speaker 4: Soviet sensors would allow music because they liked songs, you know,
Speaker 4: showcasing inner city strife in America. It was good for
Speaker 4: the Soviet ideology to show, you know, and Marvin Gay
Speaker 4: saying about what's going on, you know, the Russians loved that.
Speaker 3: Bobby Woomack, yeah, yes, yes, yes, yes, all right, well,
Speaker 3: well so that that's what happened.
Speaker 4: But then, but then when Western music came in the
Speaker 4: modern era, they devoured it. They were ready for it,
Speaker 4: they were hungry for it. And I was there to
Speaker 4: bring the best of American pop and rock and hip
Speaker 4: hop music to the Russians.
Speaker 3: And of course, first CEO Universal Music in Moscow. You
Speaker 3: brought a corporate presence and organized money making ability with
Speaker 3: a team in place. How did you navigate and deal
Speaker 3: with the political sort of post fall chaos. I just
Speaker 3: get this impression. As soon as the structure of the
Speaker 3: Soviet Union's and all of these mobsters, gangsters and oligars
Speaker 3: just rushed to fill in the void on that they
Speaker 3: see you making profit outside Western entity making profit. I
Speaker 3: gotta imagine you got you know the shakedown number done
Speaker 3: to you?
Speaker 4: Or am I wrong? Well? You know, it's interesting because
Speaker 4: there was no proper music industry when I got there.
Speaker 4: You know, there was no real ideas of royalty payments
Speaker 4: to artists or songwriter rights, copyrights, none of that. None
Speaker 4: of that was that's here too, and it all had
Speaker 4: to be built from scratch. But the biggest obstacle Brian
Speaker 4: was the Russian mafia had moved in so fast that
Speaker 4: they had controlled They took control of ninety percent of
Speaker 4: the music industry by the time I got there, Oh jeez.
Speaker 4: And they yeah, they were manufacturing these counterfeit CDs that
Speaker 4: they were selling for a dollar two dollars and on
Speaker 4: the black market, and you could have Elton John's greatest
Speaker 4: hits plus his new record, plus anything else you wanted
Speaker 4: for Melton John. They would just put it on one seat,
Speaker 4: you know. They would cherry pick all the great songs
Speaker 4: and and and put it out there, and and and
Speaker 4: and they would export that music also to UH to
Speaker 4: Europe and China, and they would use the money UH
Speaker 4: to to fund terrorism and and sex trafficking and drugs trafficking.
Speaker 4: So it was a really terrible situation when I got there.
Speaker 1: Well, how did you wrestle that one to law and
Speaker 1: order or did you?
Speaker 4: Well, we did have success. We that we definitely were
Speaker 4: able to put pressure on the Kremlin to finally do
Speaker 4: something about it because they were you know, the Russians
Speaker 4: weren't taking uh they weren't considering the possibilities of their
Speaker 4: own music industry. I I I used to always use
Speaker 4: Abba in Sweden as a great example. I would say,
Speaker 4: you know, Abba, you know, Sweden sells more Abba records
Speaker 4: than it does Volvo cars or anything else, and and
Speaker 4: so could Russia, you know. And it's a great tax base,
Speaker 4: it'll bring bring money, it'll create an industry, jobs, et cetera.
Speaker 4: And and that was my Mantra. I was constantly reinforcing that.
Speaker 4: But the biggest step we took was I met with
Speaker 4: the US ambassador in Moscow and asked and pleaded with
Speaker 4: him honestly to do something about the situation. And he uh,
Speaker 4: he persuaded George Bush to block Russia from entering the
Speaker 4: World Trade Organization until they did something about music piracy.
Speaker 4: And and that's and that really worked. That definitely had
Speaker 4: an impact.
Speaker 3: Wow, it's you were in a sort of a help me,
Speaker 3: help you environment in that that particular.
Speaker 2: Situation exactly exactly, and in a vibrant music industry is
Speaker 2: very good for any economy, but especially one transitioning out
Speaker 2: of out of communism.
Speaker 1: Well, of course it's good for the soul.
Speaker 3: I mean, what brings people together better than music, You know,
Speaker 3: it's uplifting or sometimes maybe it's not, but the idea
Speaker 3: that you can embrace something and uh and and especially
Speaker 3: when you've been so void of a presence that has
Speaker 3: been out in the rest of the world for so long,
Speaker 3: I just imagine what it was like just being there
Speaker 3: and being flooded with all of this new material. Just again,
Speaker 3: I go back to the sort of the exciting environment
Speaker 3: that I perceived it was. You also helped develop local
Speaker 3: Russian talent while you were there, didn't you.
Speaker 4: I did, and that's very important for a record company,
Speaker 4: not just to bring in Elton John and Brian Adams
Speaker 4: and Metallic, but also to sign and develop local talent.
Speaker 4: And what I did is I found a few artists
Speaker 4: that I could actually sell abroad too, So I was
Speaker 4: selling Russian music throughout the world, as far away as
Speaker 4: Brazil to Japan, Australia to New Zealand. And of course
Speaker 4: the biggest goal of all was I always wanted to
Speaker 4: be the first record American record executive to bring a
Speaker 4: Russian band to the United States, and I did that.
Speaker 4: So that was the biggest thing for me, is to
Speaker 4: bring Russian music to the US.
Speaker 3: Well, Rock in the Kremlin my incredible true story of gangsters,
Speaker 3: olig archs and pop stars and Putin's Russia the name
Speaker 3: of the book. My guest today, David Johnk's story career
Speaker 3: in the music business.
Speaker 1: Did it end?
Speaker 3: I mean, I guess we saw that we've seen the direction,
Speaker 3: we've just gone to authoritarianism, and we thought this was
Speaker 3: going to be maybe a democratic reality in Russia. They
Speaker 3: might end up being a great trading partner or friends,
Speaker 3: who knows. I mean, hell, in the aftermath of World
Speaker 3: War Two, you didn't really necessarily think that Germany be
Speaker 3: a long term trading partner. Look what happened Japan, the
Speaker 3: same thing. But what of the Soviet Union post Cold War?
Speaker 4: It's really tragic, right. My wife's father was one of
Speaker 4: those there with Boris Yeltsen in the early nineties when
Speaker 4: he was up on the tank. Oh yeah, clamoring for
Speaker 4: democracy in the end of the Soviet Union, and there
Speaker 4: was so much hope for democracy and a future, a
Speaker 4: really bright future for Russia. You know, the Russians have
Speaker 4: one of the highest literacy rates in the world, to
Speaker 4: some of the smartest people in the world. It really
Speaker 4: could have been a tremendous thing for their economy to
Speaker 4: keep growing. But because of well, Boris Jelsen was quite
Speaker 4: drunk all the time, and yes he was, and and
Speaker 4: and then there was a Chechen War, a war in
Speaker 4: Chech that was really causing a lot of problems for
Speaker 4: Russian So that that led to the ascendancy of Putin
Speaker 4: into the Kremlin and things have never been the same since.
Speaker 4: And that that put Russia on the authoritarian track.
Speaker 1: Uh, does.
Speaker 3: Is there still a presence of Universal music in Moscow
Speaker 3: in Russia these days?
Speaker 4: No, there's not, unfortunately, uh well, but but it's proper.
Speaker 4: With the war and the invasion, Western companies have moved out,
Speaker 4: Record companies have moved out, and Universal have definitely moved out.
Speaker 4: There's still a hip hop industry there that I played
Speaker 4: a role in creating twenty five years ago when we
Speaker 4: brought in Eminem and Doctor Dre and Snoop Dogg. That
Speaker 4: really led to the to the development of a local
Speaker 4: hip hop artist community and and bry My. My hope
Speaker 4: is it's that community of young people that will eventually
Speaker 4: lead Rushia to better days and perhaps they'll take back
Speaker 4: the country from the Kremlin somedays.
Speaker 1: How about that.
Speaker 3: It's amazing what music can do to change the country
Speaker 3: and the landscape. Saw it in the late sixties, without question,
Speaker 3: Well real quick before we part. Comedy David Johnes loved
Speaker 3: the conversation. The book's going to be a great read
Speaker 3: for my listeners. You can get it on my blog
Speaker 3: page fifty five Caresey dot com. Rockin the Kremlin? What's
Speaker 3: your perception? And I brought it up at the outset,
Speaker 3: But what's your perception of the modern music industry.
Speaker 1: Is it even an industry anymore?
Speaker 3: Given that, Hell, when I was going to laugh at this,
Speaker 3: when I was a kid, the one of the neatest
Speaker 3: things that was available at music stores they had a
Speaker 3: little cassette. It was a four track recording studio. Miniature things,
Speaker 3: so you could put four tracks on a cassette tape
Speaker 3: and record at home and even over dub at home.
Speaker 3: Now I know modern you can get a ninety seven
Speaker 3: track or whatever, an unlimited number of track computer software
Speaker 3: you can download online and just do all the layering
Speaker 3: with separate tracks. It's just it's home based music. I
Speaker 3: don't need a pretty auction studio anymore. I can just
Speaker 3: put my own music online. What's this done to the
Speaker 3: music industry? And is it still an industry? If I
Speaker 3: may put it that way, David, I have.
Speaker 4: Mixed feelings about that. I'm old school. I I come
Speaker 4: from the era of the supergroups, you know, Journey, Rush,
Speaker 4: Pink Floyd, you know the reb Zeppeline and I and
Speaker 4: I honestly believe bands like that are not going to
Speaker 4: happen in today's modern industry because there's not people gatekeepers
Speaker 4: like I was trying to develop them, but also having
Speaker 4: to to not release every single record that comes out
Speaker 4: from somebody's you know computer, right, That's that's what happens
Speaker 4: now is all music is out there. There's there's no gatekeepers,
Speaker 4: there's no filters. You just get everything. And some people
Speaker 4: like that. Some people like it that there's thousands, thousands
Speaker 4: and thousands of more songs per year released than there
Speaker 4: ever was in the seventies or eighties. But I think
Speaker 4: we've lost that that super group mentality, you know, where
Speaker 4: we'll really appreciate artist artistry of a really great band
Speaker 4: or a really great artist, and they sell millions of
Speaker 4: records instead of thousands of records. So I think it's
Speaker 4: I don't like it myself, but I have two sons
Speaker 4: who make music themselves and put it put it on
Speaker 4: the internet, so you know, it's a generational thing.
Speaker 3: It really is. Well, I'm in your camp, David. I
Speaker 3: think you and I sound like we're roughly got around
Speaker 3: the same age. You mentioned a lot of the bands
Speaker 3: that I like and grew up with, so I have
Speaker 3: a sense of appreciation for where you're coming from. David
Speaker 3: johnk author of Rocking the Kremlin, My Incredible True Story
Speaker 3: of Gangsters, Oligarchson and pop stars and Putin's Rush. You
Speaker 3: get a fifty five Karsey dot Com. David, it's been
Speaker 3: a real enjoyable conversation. I know we're all gonna love
Speaker 3: the book.
Speaker 4: Thank you, Brian, it's been a real great talking to you.
Speaker 4: Really really grateful for it.
Speaker 1: My pleasure, sir, My pleasure. Good luck with all the sales.
Speaker 3: Eight nineteen fifty five Ksity Toxation, Jeff, hang on, buddy,
Speaker 3: I'll take your call.
Speaker 4: Hang on.
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