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Speaker 1: All right, we're gonna leave you now. I'm gonna make

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a bunch of and or references, so I know that

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would be so totally over your head. I don't want

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to embarrass you.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, well look I'm cool. Yep, not green.

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Speaker 3: Make him go away.

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Speaker 1: Guys, ask not what your country can do for you,

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ask what you can do for your country. Mister garbach off,

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tear down this wall. It's the Ricochet Podcast with Stephen Heyward,

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Charles W. Cook the last but I'm James Lonax with

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you and we're going to talk to Henry Olson about

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the events in Europe and elsewhere. Gilette's Episode's a podcast.

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Speaker 4: Now we're in a diverse nation like ours, and I

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celebrate that these rules become even more important. Without them,

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we were becoming an island of strangers. So yes, I

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believe in this. I believe we need to reduce immigration significantly.

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Speaker 1: Welcome everybody. It's the Ricochet Podcast, number seven hundred and

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forty two. I'm James Lllloxs in Minneapolis, Minnesota. I'm joined

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by not Charles E. W. Cook. A. Last last we

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heard of him his roof was leaking, so for all

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we know, he is standing in a flooded house bailing,

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or he's just off having lunch somewhere in sunny Florida.

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Stephen Hayward in California. I presume, step and how are you?

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Speaker 3: I'm good, but busy week. It's hard to keep up

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with everything.

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Speaker 1: So much stuff to do. Well, we could go with

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something that actually happened minutes ago, I think, well three

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hours ago, a little tweet from Harvard here and says,

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without its international students, Harvard is not Harvard. And that

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struck me at first as the University of Minnesota saying

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without our students from Wisconsin, the University of Minnesota is

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not the University of Minnesota. I think it possibly could be.

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But the idea of the international students somehow having an

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automatic cachet because they simply are not American, and when

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you are not American, you bring an ineffable quality to

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things about to find out how that plays. What do

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you think is even of this idea that the administration

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has said, well you know what, Nope, sorry, no more

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international students, none of that wonderful full tuition that they pay. Sorry,

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Is this just another negotiating tactic like what I believe

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is a fairly significant tax on endowments to get them

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to do what exactly as you see.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. So first of all, I think, James, you mispronounced

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the word cash. You said cachet cash. You're right, Yeah,

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I mean, this is, of course, the business model for

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many universities is to have foreign students come who pay

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full freight. Some students have, some colleges have high numbers

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of Chinese students who will pay, you know, the full

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freight for universities, and it is a I've had college

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administrators confess to me that it is a primary revenue

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model for them. But second of all, Harvard is not

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Harvard without it's apparently seven thousand foreign students is their

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average number that they role was the number I've seen reported,

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And Harvard wouldn't be Harvard without their fore students. And

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I thought, oh, maybe they're starting to get the point

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here that Harvard isn't Harvard. That's the point. That's that's

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the object of the Trump administration. And you know, I'm

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all for them. I mean, I you know, I know

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some Harvard faculty that are good, and I feel bad

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for them, except most of them privately say we richly

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deserve it. So anyway, I think this is just one

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more turn to the screw by the Trump people. And

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Harvard has i think late yesterday or maybe this morning,

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filed suit saying this is an illegal move. But you know,

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the Harvard can afford a lot of lawyers, but the

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Trump administration has an unlimited number of lawyers in time

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to pursue this.

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Speaker 1: So I'm sure the fund of judgeho believes and agrees

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with them. You see this back and forth all the time,

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the judge who says, no, you actually can't fire those

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people because that impeedes their ability to do the work

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of the agency, and such and side it which you know,

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it has got to come to some sort of point

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where these judges simply are not are are restrained show

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we say, from over reaching their bonds because we're reaching

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a point where there's a legitimacy of competency and confidence

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in the courts, which is not a good thing. Where

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people may say, good good, there are a bunch of

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rogue activists. Get them out of here. Let's just spend

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that you don't want that you really don't want that

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post court post rule or law world. You mentioned you

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know some Harvard educators who believe that they richly deserve it.

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Speaker 3: Why Well, because the administration has coddled the left for

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so long and you know, allowed all these you know,

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firm intive action programs, quote the DEI stuff, ideological hiring also,

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you know, refusing to hire. I mean I'm familiar with

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a few hiring cases where they had a strong conservative

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candidate and the person who ought to have been hired

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was rejected. This is going back twenty years now. I

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mean there's been systematic bias, not just at Harvard, but

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a lot of universities against hiring well qualified conservative professors.

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And so I think the Harvard faculty is the most upsided.

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I think it's ninety eight percent registered Democrats.

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Speaker 1: That's what I figured. But so you're speaking to the

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two percent who are not the people who are suppose

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you with the you know, with a cone of silence

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over there. You were going to mention something else about this.

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Speaker 3: Well, I thought you mentioned, you know, judges and injunctions.

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I thought maybe you had in mind this case that

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came out on Thursday, Trump H. Wilcox. It's one of

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those shadow Dockett rocket docket cases. It's not a complete case,

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but by a six to three vote, the court said,

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you know what, Trump can fire members of some of

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these boards and commissions, because you know they've been saying, oh,

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these are independent agencies. The president can't do that. And

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so anyway, this augurs well for this when the full

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case comes before the court, or turn the old Humphreys

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executor's case that said a president couldn't fire the head

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of the Federal Tray Commission. There is one sentence in

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Justice Kagan's descent that really jumps out at me. That's

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very short. She said that the principal and a president

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can't fire somebody. Here's a quote Undergirdz. A significant feature

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of American governance bi partisan administrative bodies carrying out expertise

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based functions with a measure of independence from presidential control.

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That is the most perfect one sentence encapsulation of the

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progressive idea of expert government unaccountable to political bodies, letther

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Congress or the president. But it's also got the history wrong.

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And so you know in thirty seconds, the reason we

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set up the commission model, going all the way back

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to the eighteen eighties with you five members, two from

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the minority party and three from the president's party, was

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to replicate the partisan divisions that exist between the two

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parties and their views of how policies should be made

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and what its goal should be. Congress figured out one

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hundred and fifty years ago that you couldn't escape the

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essential disagreements of American politics, and therefore let's copy it.

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So there's by saying bi partisan administrative bodies, as Justice

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Kagan said, No, there's a look. Everybody who pays attention

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knows that the Securities Exchange Commission, Federal Communications Commission, they

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are partisan fights in those commissions every year, every week,

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and that's on purpose. And so you're trying to pull

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the wool over our eyes saying, oh, it's nothing here

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about us bipartisan expert people unaffected by politics, and it's

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about time for that whole game to end.

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Speaker 1: The belief seems to be that the civil service is

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this non partisan sort of cadre of experts that floats

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over things and makes decisions according to the best data,

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unswayed by personal beliefs, which is nice to believe, but

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unfortunately it doesn't work out that way. And the people

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who seem to believe that it do also believe that

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the technocratic expertise will be slightly left coded, if not

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explicitly so, because that's just simply the right, correct and

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smart thing to do. So while it would be nice

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to believe in that sort of civil service, we're being

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disabused of a whole lot of notions of our institutions.

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Which brings to something else is that if you can't

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get the courts to do exactly what you want to say,

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or the courts are thwarting you, well then just figure

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out a novel way to go around them. Who's reading

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a story this week that what ICE is doing with

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the Homeland Security is doing as dropping charges on some

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guys so they you know, we need our day in court?

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All right, Well you know what, we're dropping the charges,

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but we're arresting you right now. Yeah, which does focus

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the mind. Yes, uh so DC shooting, Jew shooting in DC.

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I don't know how else to put it. It has

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had the immediate effects, as I wrote on Ricochet was

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one You're not gonna hear an awful lot about stochastic

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terrorism this week, where people talk about how bad, how

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rhetoric that seems to be inflaming people has his story

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of voltage that leads to actual terrorism, speeches, violence, et cetera.

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Not gonna hear a lot about that this week. And secondly,

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Luigi Mangioni, the previous darling of a certain set of

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the progressive left, has now been replaced by somebody else

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who has had the courage of his convictions. Hasn't burnt himself,

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but he's done something brave, he's struck a blow, etcetera, etcetera.

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And a surprising number of people are self identifying as

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fans of alludism of a murderous lunatic by saying, yes,

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this is the inevitable result. It is a necessary result.

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It is what happens when you have a genocidal government,

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its emissaries are free to walk them among the planet.

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Even though these people weren't emissaries of the government at all.

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They actually were, from what I understand, interested in outreach

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to the ballast Indian community and finding some way to

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foster peace. But it didn't matter because it comes down

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to it, they're Jews. So yeah, so where does this

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go exactly?

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Speaker 3: I'm afraid it's heading in some very dark directions. You know,

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I have been reflecting the last several years that as

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bad as things are, you know, black lives matter, riots

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and especially things going on on campus. At least, it's

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not yet as bad as it was in the late

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sixties and early seventies when we were averaging what one

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bombing every three days. I mean, there's something like a

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thousand bombings, including on college campuses that killed some people

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at the University Wisconsin. I thought, at least, we're not

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bombing college campuses yet, We're not having political assassinations yet.

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Now I said this before they took shots at Trump

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a few months ago, and I'm worried that we are

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very quickly edging our way back to that. The Left

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is clearly going to legitimize violence. We're going to get

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more of it. And this takes us back to the

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university story once again. I mean, where did this kid

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learn this stuff? He was an English major at the

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University of Illinois, Chicago, and I couldn't find out much

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about it. But I bet their English department is just

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as bad as every other one these days. But they

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teach this stuff in the universities or even earlier. I mean,

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one problem is is this guy. I suspect this Rodriguez

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kid probably arrived at university fully Howard zinified already in

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high school, and so the problem goes all the way down.

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By the way, interesting news tidbit this morning. This guy's

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father was a guest of a Democratic congressman from Illinois

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at Trump's speech to Congress two three months back. Now,

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you don't blame parents for the sins of the children,

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I understand. On the other hand, that's going to be

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difficult to explain, and we'll have to see where that

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story goes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the grenade doesn't fall far from the tree. Now,

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English major, you're probably right that the curriculum that he

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into which he was steeped and marinated was probably not

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the same as mine. When I was an English major.

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I don't remember, you know, spending a lot of time

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on Canterbury Tales and you know Kate Chopin's The Awakening

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and deciding that I should go out and shoot somebody.

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But maybe when you talk about politic I mean, we

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can have the whole conversation about how political violence has

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been normalized by the left and has been exalted as

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the voice of the people, the unsung, et cetera, et cetera.

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We're told, of course that the biggest threat in the

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country is political violence from the right. But yet we

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keep seeing these things happen. But I don't think you're

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going to have a summer of riots over Gaza. I

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think you need some approximate cause here in the United

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States that gets that gin's up, the particular excuse. And

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right now it seems to me the well on the

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left has a great deal of grievances about Trump. They're

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sort of indistinct, free floating, confusing. It's a miasma of gnats.

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That's just they can't really do any wave their hands

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to try to dispel them. There's no focus point yet,

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but there might be who knows everything changes and moves swiftly,

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such as your host moving from our general discussion to

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one of a particular nature, with Henry Olsen, Senior fellow

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with the Ethics and Public Policy Center, author of The

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Working Class Republican, Ronald Reagan and the Return of Blue

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Collar Conservatism, and the host of Beyond the Polls, which

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is an election podcast. You can find it right here

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on Ricochet. Henry, welcome, Well, thanks for having me. Well

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we get to Europe, because yes it matters, and they

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had elections and they are significant. But we want to

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bring up a piece he wrote last month for unheard.

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It was called Trump's dirty hairy theory of justice. And

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you explain, with the voters today are unusually ammenable to

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the president's methods. I was just talking with somebody about

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this yesterday. It's like, you know, if you guys don't

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do anything, then and you don't do anything, and you

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import more of the problem and you gaslight the people

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who say that there is a problem. Eventually somebody comes

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along to try to solve the problems and the excesses

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that the margins are not going to bother the people

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who are concerned about these things because fine, something's finally

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being done. Is that what you're talking about?

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Speaker 2: Pretty much? You know what Dirty Harry was For people

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who may not have seen the nineteen seventy one movie

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made Clint Eastwood's career in a sense, as he played

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a cop who was consistently frustrated by Warren Court era

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rulings that basically put procedure over justice and let criminals

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go free and employed extra legal methods to pursue justice.

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And I think that's what's going on here is it's

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quite obvious that there are millions of people here who

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were let in in violation of law. Many of them

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are not committing crimes, but way too many of them are.

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And even if they aren't, they're not supposed to be here,

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you know, violating the law. And so Trump is pursued

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doing that and sometimes looking a little askance or looking

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the other way when procedure gets in the way. And

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I think for his voters, as long as he's dealing

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with the problem, he's pursuing justice and not letting law

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get in the way, and they're justifying with that.

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Speaker 1: I was talking to somebody yesterday about the proposed Medicare

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cuts and they were saying, this is going to be

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very bad for hospitals. It's going to be it's going

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to be dreadful, and I said, well, and again in

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this conversation, I was not defending. I was just simply

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explaining what the logic was. Well, that there will be

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significant cuts because the hospital is no longer have to

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because Medicare will medicate whatever we're talking We'll never have

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to give money again to illegals, to which the person responded, oh, well,

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then grade fine, they'll just go to the emergency rooms.

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And I said, well, no, actually, the idea is that

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they won't be here, and that seems that seems to

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be like a stunning revelations like that we have no

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choice but to fund these people because they're the option

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of just saying no, I'm sorry, you don't belong here,

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you're not a citizen, and here you came, and you

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slipped through, you ignored all your court dates, you are

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going to be deported. Seems to be off the table

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for an awful lot of people. But it's it's pretty

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much everything on the table for a lot of others,

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isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, look, going back to COVID, nobody

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could get together outdoors until you were protesting something approved

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by the progressive a lead, and then nobody can get

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COVID if you're protesting racism, right right. So the thing

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is that what they're shocked about is that somebody is

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pursuing matters of culture and matters of law, of economics,

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but predominantly matters of culture using all the same techniques

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and the same sort of intensity that the left is

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pursued for fifty or sixty years, and they're shocked, shocked

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to discover there's gambling going on in this new federal

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government state. Now, hello, McFly, you built it. You are

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now have to deal with that. And the fact is

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that these Medicaid cuts are not cuts. You know what

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they are is, well, if you serve through state funds

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illegal aliens, people who shouldn't be here anyway that you

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recognize in your state law, we're going to not reimburse

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your Medicaid program at the same rate. So the states

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get to make a choice. You know, nobody is boarched

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off the rolls, and you know they're the other thing.

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It's that the biggest so called cuts are saying, well,

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you have if you're able bodied and you don't have

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dependent children, and you're not pregnant, and you're under the

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age of sixty five, you have to at least try

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to work or go to school or provide community service

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twenty hours a week. And the CBO says, well, that

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means millions of people will lose their healthcare, to which

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most Trump voters would say, damn straight. If you can't

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help yourself, you don't deserve our help. So these aren't cuts.

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And this is the sort of thing that the left

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is used to having a monopoly over the language, and

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we can't let them do that. And I think what

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they're finding is increasingly the right is not letting them

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do that again. They're they're shocked to discover that the

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right is not simply the Washington generals paid different for

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the hard.

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Speaker 1: Should should note to everybody that we did, indeed catch

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the fact that you made both the Casablanca and a

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Back to the Future reference. I think in the span

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of about seven seconds.

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Speaker 3: That's and Dirty Harry too, right now.

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Speaker 2: No, hey, look, I am just a rolling culture machine

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for anything made before the year nineteen ninety four. Well, James,

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I can do I can call fiction too, and that

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was nineteen ninety four.

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Speaker 3: So I don't know, James, if you've caught the news

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out of California where Coveror Newsom has not only announced

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no further enrollments of illegal aliens in Medicaid, but existing

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illegal alien enrollees have to start making a copey, maybe

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Henry should talk about Newsom's obvious crab march to the

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right to try to run for president. But by the way,

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you mentioned Dirty Harry. I can't resist this. I think

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it was Richard Granier who pointed out that that was

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the first mainstream Hollywood movie that talked back to liberalism, right,

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I mean, you laid out theme about the war in court.

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But my favorite scene you may remember it, James, is

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when dirty Harry Callahan gets his new partner, a young

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Hispanic guy named Chico. Nothing subtle about that, and he

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looks at him skeptically. He says, what's your background? He says,

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degree in sociology from San Jose State Hallahead looks at

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him and says, oh, you'll go far. That just perfect, right,

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I mean, fifty years ahead of the whole DEI world

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we see these days, right, But I was especially interested

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in catching up with you on the scene in Europe,

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which is of a piece with ours in a lot

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of ways. And you know, you know, things down to

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the precinct level, which is scary because I don't, I mean,

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there's something wrong with you, Henry. I've been saying this

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for forty years. But let's start with the United Kingdom.

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You know, I woke up here two weeks ago and

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saw a tweet from Prime Minister Kirs Starmer saying, you know,

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immigration to Britain is not a right, it's a privilege

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that has to be earned, and I thought, well, this

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is new for those guys are even more open border

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than Joe Biden was and then I picked up the

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news that Nigel Faraja's Reform Party swept the municipal elections.

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That was hardly reported in the US press. I had

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to go to the British press to see the full

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dimensions of it. It was staggering. And they're now polling

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number one, and I think the Tories have fallen in

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number three. So first of all, the two part question

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is Farage for real? I mean, is Reform now going

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to replace the Tories? Are the Tories in such deep

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trouble that will they come back? I mean, give us

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your thumbnail assessment of what the turmoil that's going on

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in the UK.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Parage is for real, Reform is for real, and

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the Tories are in an existential crisis. There's a book

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written many years ago about how the Liberal Party went

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from running Britain. Oh yeah, right, the Strange Death of

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Liberal England. There's a better than fifty percent chance that

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we are in the middle of the strange death of

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Conservative England that the Tory Party. And the basic question

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is simple is that throughout the Western world, conservative voters

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are increasingly pushing back against a liberal elite, and liberal

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includes many Conservatives because I mean the liberal with a

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small continental l that doesn't care about nationalism and doesn't

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care about citizenship, and you see it in immigration and

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you see it in trade. They just don't care. It's

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open borders all the way. And conservative voters say, no, actually,

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we don't think that's right. We think that UoS a

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duty as citizens and that means protecting our way of

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life and our standard of living, to which most elites

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in the conservative movements say, sorry, I can't hear you.

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You say you want more freedom, more liberty, and that's

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not what they're saying. So what's happened is is that

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the right in Britain has finally given up. In the

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Conservative Party well ram things for fourteen years and didn't

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keep any of their promises. And the most stunning thing

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was in twenty nineteen when they basically have a Trumpian

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victory where they win votes that they've never gotten before

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from blue collar, former labor voters, and then they proceed

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to govern and ignore all of their promises. And what

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Reform is doing is getting the right of the Tory

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Party and the former labor working class voter in the

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same party. And that's a plurality in British poety.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, well with a dirty Hall Harry that you know,

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where people are constrained by what they believe they're allowed

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to say and to think, and there's an inevitable reaction

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that exceeds what people.

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Speaker 1: Thought it would be. Is this not going all the

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way back to Enoch Powell? Is this not going back

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to the idea of some sort of British identity that

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deserves to be maintained. It's an idea that's been delegitimized

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in the upper British culture time. You know.

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Speaker 2: The thing is that Enoch Powell spoke in a language

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that Nigel Farajen never uses, you know, right, Nigel Farage

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never talks about rivers of blood is of blood. There

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are plenty of non white British citizens who are part

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of Reform, which is one of the things that always

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shocks people is why is it that, you know, the

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chairman of Reform is somebody from either Pakistan or India.

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I forget where's the a us off is from? But

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you know, and the fact is that there are plenty

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of people who are British even though they are not

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of white heritage. And that's not something I think that

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Powell could ever have admitted, and then you've got the

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non conventional economic Well.

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Speaker 3: Just look at the leader, sorry interrupt, just look at

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the leader of the Tory Party right now, Kemmy Badanock, right,

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born of Kenyan parents. Yeah, okay, sorry.

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Speaker 2: And succeeding Rishish Shunoch, you know, Adu of Indian parentage,

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who is British, born in and raised in Britain. But

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that's the Conservative Party. And the fact is the Conservative Party,

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like all conservative parties built in the post war era,

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is coming apart. It's coming apart because the Liberal and

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as John Howard of Australia said that the Liberal Party

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of Australia, which is the Conservative party down there, big

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l like classical right, could contain liberal and conservative elements,

439
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you know, which is say people who are concerned first

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about freedom, that people concerned first about tradition can find

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their homes are. What happens is people who are concerned,

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who are upper income and educated now don't care about

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conservative culture the left, and there's no longer a chance

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to combine them in opposition to something when the center,

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when the left has in fact embraced some form of capitalism.

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So all of these Western parties are finding there nineteen

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forty five to nineteen ninety nine era coalitions going away,

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and the Tory Party remains split between people who would

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actually rather be the right wing of the left than

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those who would rather be the establishment wing of the right.

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And I don't think they'll solve that problem before the

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next election. And I think they will be I think

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there's a better than fifty percent chance that they'll have

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fewer than fifty seats in the next parliament.

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Speaker 3: Wow. Well, the one more question about the Tory Party.

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You know, in America we still talk about our rhinos,

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right Republicans in name only, who they aren't endangered species

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like African rhinos, And you know, the Republican Party became

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more self identified conservative party, which we are going to see

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that now. What I hear from our friends like Andrew

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Roberts and others is that that never happened to the

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Tory Party in Britain, even with the strong influence of

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Margaret Thatcher. After she left, it snapped back and you

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have a lot of I guess we'd call them Tino's

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Tories in name only, right right, And I mean Andrews says,

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you know, half the members of the Tory Party in Parliament,

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and this was true under Boris Johnson. Are actually not

468
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very ideological. They're Tory Party members out of convenience and

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ambition because that's the way there are constituency rules. And

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I think you can see that the party really lost

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its way, and I don't know is there a chance

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that they can Well you just said your prediction is

473
00:25:05,480 --> 00:25:08,880
they're going to get wiped out, but I don't have

474
00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:11,200
to solve that problem if they're ever going to come back.

475
00:25:11,839 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 2: I think those of us who are small Sea Conservative

476
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:16,119
or not ought not to be wedded to the big

477
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,720
C Conservative. Yeah, okay, I would have voted reform if

478
00:25:20,759 --> 00:25:25,440
I were in Britain in four I am enthusiastically for reform,

479
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,720
not that I agree with everything Forage says and so forth,

480
00:25:29,759 --> 00:25:34,559
because I think the Tory Party in Britain is essentially

481
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,160
now an expression of class preference.

482
00:25:38,599 --> 00:25:40,440
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. The people I know who in Britain who

483
00:25:40,440 --> 00:25:44,319
are voting reform were not Tories before. So there's this

484
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,880
there's a spectrum of legitimacy, it seems. In Europe, right,

485
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:51,640
there's reform, then maybe a f D and then down

486
00:25:51,680 --> 00:25:55,799
below that the French, because the French are always castigating

487
00:25:55,839 --> 00:26:01,680
their own right, but respectability seems to be coming up somewhat.

488
00:26:03,039 --> 00:26:06,799
Are Let's look at AfD first, which I believe was

489
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,160
you know, investigated and found to be beyond the pale.

490
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,640
But they're not going away.

491
00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:12,359
Speaker 4: No.

492
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing that you in a democracy, you

493
00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:20,400
can't abolish voters. And the elites have this sense that well,

494
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,119
if we can whole control the narrative, or we control

495
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,000
the leadership, you know, we can put this thing to bread.

496
00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:29,160
But in a democracy, public opinion is everything. To quote

497
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,680
somebody who once had a beard and ended the Civil war,

498
00:26:33,799 --> 00:26:38,400
you know, is that so they could aband AfD tomorrow

499
00:26:38,559 --> 00:26:42,720
and it wouldn't matter. It wouldn't matter because a quarter

500
00:26:42,759 --> 00:26:47,319
of Germans want the policies that AfD have. So somebody

501
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:49,799
would come and create a new party called DFA and

502
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:54,319
you know, and yeah, this happened in Belgium, is that

503
00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,000
they had a right wing party, a populist anti immigrant party,

504
00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:03,200
and they actually moved to abolish Vlam's Block, and Vlam's

505
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:06,480
Block dissolved itself ahead of the court hearing and reconstituted

506
00:27:06,519 --> 00:27:08,279
itself as Vloms Belong.

507
00:27:08,400 --> 00:27:13,279
Speaker 1: And guess what they're still gidding bo AfD, though for

508
00:27:13,319 --> 00:27:15,240
those people who don't know describe what they are. Two

509
00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,440
main things would be there are two primary issues that

510
00:27:18,519 --> 00:27:19,839
are gaining them popularity.

511
00:27:19,960 --> 00:27:23,799
Speaker 2: Well, the two primary issues that would be gaining them popularity,

512
00:27:24,279 --> 00:27:27,960
first of all overwhelmingly as immigration, and the second is

513
00:27:28,160 --> 00:27:33,160
i would say, German culture. It's where does AfD do best.

514
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,720
It does best in places that are not doing well economically,

515
00:27:37,079 --> 00:27:40,759
and they also do well in places that historically have

516
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:46,920
been very supportive of particularly Catholic identity. You see where

517
00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:51,240
they're take a look at the same regions on the

518
00:27:51,319 --> 00:27:56,200
Czech Bavarian border that backed the Bavarian People's Party and

519
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,960
the Weimar Republic and gave huge majorities to the Christian

520
00:28:00,039 --> 00:28:03,759
and Social Union in the post World War two environment

521
00:28:04,079 --> 00:28:06,519
are still voting for the CSU, but they're giving the

522
00:28:06,559 --> 00:28:09,200
AfD their strongest level of support in the West, and

523
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:14,079
that's not depressed industrial territory, that's Catholic ritory. So mainly

524
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:19,160
those two things that are gaining them gaining them supporting, but.

525
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:21,880
Speaker 1: They are tightly bound together, the immigration and the idea

526
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:22,440
of German cost.

527
00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,039
Speaker 2: They are tightly bound together, but they're also several, you know,

528
00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:29,640
and this is the thing is that if suddenly the

529
00:28:29,680 --> 00:28:33,720
government tomorrow decided well, actually we're just going to steal

530
00:28:33,759 --> 00:28:37,119
AfD's immigration policies, which is what the Social Democrats did

531
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:40,039
in Denmark, it wouldn't mean the AfD would go away

532
00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,680
any more than the populist right went away in Denmark.

533
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,359
You know, populist right in Denmark still gets about twenty

534
00:28:45,359 --> 00:28:48,119
percent of the vote, split a number of different parties

535
00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,359
because there are other things that are pushing it. It's

536
00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:53,559
not a one issue thing. And that's one of the

537
00:28:53,559 --> 00:28:57,000
things that people tend not to understand. They tend to think, well,

538
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,079
this is just a protest party, and you move the

539
00:29:00,119 --> 00:29:02,599
source of the protests and the party will go away. No,

540
00:29:02,759 --> 00:29:07,279
this is an identity thing. This is a worldview that

541
00:29:07,319 --> 00:29:10,519
has its expression and its saliens from immigration, but it

542
00:29:10,559 --> 00:29:16,720
extends well beyond that and is simply uncoalitionable with a

543
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:20,400
move a political element that is dominated by a progressive

544
00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:24,799
left that sees not know. Basically, the progressive lefts argument

545
00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:28,000
worldwide now is if you backed a system of government

546
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,480
and a series of laws that were normal throughout the

547
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,960
West when we defeated Nazism, you are now a fascist.

548
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:41,640
Yeah yeah, And so these people still believe that, you know,

549
00:29:41,759 --> 00:29:44,160
the system of laws that we had as recently as

550
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,720
like nineteen eighty are you know that society was actually

551
00:29:47,759 --> 00:29:50,519
pretty good? And why can't we have something like that today,

552
00:29:50,559 --> 00:29:53,519
you know, not turning back the clock, but preserve and

553
00:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,920
conserving if you will, those values, and that is simply

554
00:29:58,000 --> 00:29:59,720
uncoalitionable with the modern left.

555
00:30:00,359 --> 00:30:03,039
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's let's head east a little bit. I mean, uh,

556
00:30:03,480 --> 00:30:05,440
you know, we know that, Uh they're doing law fair

557
00:30:05,519 --> 00:30:08,119
in France against marine Lapan and in Germany against a

558
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,839
f D, and let's have to see how that plays out.

559
00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:13,559
But in Eastern Europe you're seeing other weird things that

560
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,440
hard for Americans understand because of those peculiar parliamentary systems.

561
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,960
And by the way, sometimes when you post the europolls, Henry,

562
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:23,079
I can't tell. Is the color coding also red for

563
00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,519
conservative and blue for liberal and everywhere else.

564
00:30:26,319 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 2: In the world blue is conservative?

565
00:30:28,119 --> 00:30:30,920
Speaker 3: Is that okay? Because and then you also have eight

566
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,039
parties to cope with and it's just a nuisance. But

567
00:30:34,039 --> 00:30:35,359
but you know, so you Poland and.

568
00:30:35,359 --> 00:30:37,200
Speaker 2: Romania in the Netherlands.

569
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:40,400
Speaker 3: But right, yeah, the smaller the country, the more parties.

570
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,920
You know, I want a party for my own block, right,

571
00:30:43,039 --> 00:30:46,720
it's for Prince and groct andance. I don't know. Uh

572
00:30:46,759 --> 00:30:54,880
So Romania invalidated an election. I knew. I knew that

573
00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:58,079
was a mistake for me to bring that up. Uh So,

574
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,279
Romania they invalidated action here recently because of suppose Russian

575
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,200
I don't want say suppose. I'm sure there was Russian interference.

576
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:07,759
That is not new. I'm well schooled on the way

577
00:31:07,839 --> 00:31:11,559
Russia has mucked around in Bulgaria's politics for at least

578
00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:13,680
the last twenty five years, and we don't seem to

579
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,440
be bothered by that, but or invalidate their elections. But

580
00:31:17,079 --> 00:31:20,200
they invalidated and then the establishment candidate managed to speak

581
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:22,799
by here in the last few days, I guess. And

582
00:31:22,839 --> 00:31:25,519
then I'm confused in Poland too, where I think there's

583
00:31:25,559 --> 00:31:30,039
similar lawfare, and Shenanigan's going on break those two down

584
00:31:30,079 --> 00:31:31,079
for us briefly, if you will.

585
00:31:31,119 --> 00:31:34,839
Speaker 2: What happened in Romania is that the thing to remember

586
00:31:35,079 --> 00:31:41,240
is that in what gave Trump his victory was over

587
00:31:41,279 --> 00:31:45,160
the span of a decade, he has transformed a minority

588
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:50,039
movement into a tenuous majority coalition, and he's done that

589
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:54,240
by gaining the support of people who actually don't like

590
00:31:54,279 --> 00:31:56,400
a lot of his policies, but they prefer him to

591
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:58,920
the left, and that's kind of like the nikky Haley

592
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:03,279
wing of the Republican And by adding opula and working

593
00:32:03,359 --> 00:32:06,720
class voters across the spectrum from Democrats who have just

594
00:32:07,119 --> 00:32:09,880
thrown up their hands at a modern party that doesn't

595
00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:12,640
seem to care about them anymore, that's how he gets

596
00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:16,240
to a majority. The Europeans haven't gotten to the majority

597
00:32:16,240 --> 00:32:20,000
status yet, Okay. That's basically what happened in Romania is

598
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:23,960
that this party that didn't exist seven years ago has

599
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,759
suddenly come and gotten forty five I think they ended

600
00:32:27,839 --> 00:32:30,160
up with about forty six percent of the vote. And

601
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:34,119
what held them back finally was that it's just too new,

602
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:38,559
it's too radical. So the sort of people who say, well,

603
00:32:38,599 --> 00:32:41,759
I prefer Trump to Clinton said, well, actually I prefer

604
00:32:41,839 --> 00:32:45,960
this nik Kashur Dan to George Simeon. So the center right,

605
00:32:46,039 --> 00:32:50,759
the Hailey voter of Romania backed the establishment in four years,

606
00:32:50,799 --> 00:32:54,559
that may not be the case. Yeah, And then you've

607
00:32:54,559 --> 00:32:57,759
got inter ethnic things, you know, like sur five to

608
00:32:57,799 --> 00:33:00,359
eight percent of the population is Hungarian and this guy

609
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,640
is an ultra Romanian nationalist. So the Hungarian Vogue turned

610
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,440
off on mass to oppose him, and that was another

611
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:11,240
reason why he lost in Poland. Yes, the establishment is

612
00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:14,519
going on law fair against law and justice, which is

613
00:33:14,559 --> 00:33:17,839
the populist conservative party there. But guess what, you can't

614
00:33:17,920 --> 00:33:23,279
engage in law fair against twenty million Poles. And well

615
00:33:23,319 --> 00:33:26,759
you can, but that's called Putin's Russia. And even the

616
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:31,599
establishment in Europe isn't willing to actually have phony rigged

617
00:33:31,599 --> 00:33:34,400
elections and put people in jail and have people fall

618
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,799
out of fourth floor windows consistently. So what's happened is

619
00:33:38,799 --> 00:33:41,519
is that you've got the mayor of Poland, the mayor

620
00:33:41,559 --> 00:33:45,400
of Warsaw, who is a cultural liberal and an economic conservative,

621
00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:49,400
perfectly at home as a Nicky Haley Republic who is

622
00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:52,960
the running for president. He has called for abortion in

623
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,119
a country that's the most religious in Europe. He has

624
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,720
called for the ban. As mayor of Varce's imposed a

625
00:33:59,759 --> 00:34:02,960
ban on the wearing of religious symbols even at your desk,

626
00:34:03,039 --> 00:34:05,559
so you can't have like a crucifix on your private

627
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:11,320
desk if you're a Warsaw person. He supports LGBTQ rights issues,

628
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:15,199
again in a country where people have traditional views about

629
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:19,559
homosexuality and same sex marriage, and his coalition that got

630
00:34:19,639 --> 00:34:26,519
him into parliament included socially conservative, rural voters who didn't

631
00:34:26,639 --> 00:34:32,000
like law and justice. So guess what's happened now You

632
00:34:32,079 --> 00:34:35,400
look and they say, well, if we support this guy,

633
00:34:36,159 --> 00:34:40,079
then we're basically endorsing social liberalism, and a lot of

634
00:34:40,119 --> 00:34:43,000
these voters refuse to do that, and that gives Law

635
00:34:43,039 --> 00:34:45,519
and Justice a chance to win the runoff is that

636
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:50,599
their candidate finished second. The three anti abortion candidates got

637
00:34:50,599 --> 00:34:53,400
a majority of the vote in a very high turnout

638
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:57,119
first round where the turnout was highest in the cities

639
00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,639
where the liberals, the a Republicans and people to their

640
00:35:01,760 --> 00:35:04,000
right and to do well. So if you look at

641
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:07,639
this and you say, in a democracy, public opinion is everything.

642
00:35:08,159 --> 00:35:10,800
The center left and the establishment allies on the right

643
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:15,519
continually thumbed their nose at public opinion, considering them troglegite

644
00:35:15,719 --> 00:35:20,079
or fascist. And guess what it's, you know, a revenge

645
00:35:20,119 --> 00:35:22,360
of the Jedi. Ah. My point is that Poland is

646
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:25,719
divided like we are, and it matters. And if you're

647
00:35:25,719 --> 00:35:28,039
going to be an elite that basically says public opinion

648
00:35:28,159 --> 00:35:33,000
doesn't matter because we're right and you're wrong. You should

649
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,719
expect to have a come up and sit the balance

650
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,960
box at some point, and I think Europe is maybe

651
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:40,199
five to eight to ten years behind US and a

652
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:43,320
strong minority becoming a tentative majority.

653
00:35:43,639 --> 00:35:45,800
Speaker 3: Well. Now, one of the interesting things about Poland right

654
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:47,880
now is that I was not aware of this, but

655
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:51,119
their economy has been booming, and I think like they

656
00:35:51,159 --> 00:35:54,559
already have passed Japan in per capita income, which is

657
00:35:54,599 --> 00:35:57,559
an amazing thing to think about. And that suggests to

658
00:35:57,599 --> 00:35:59,719
me that the election really is going to be decided

659
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:02,719
not on the old mix of economy and culture, but

660
00:36:02,760 --> 00:36:05,159
it's going to be culture over economy. Maybe I don't know,

661
00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:07,320
it sounds like it might happen that way. Yeah, okay,

662
00:36:07,519 --> 00:36:11,360
well now let me let me ask you. Let's turn

663
00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:13,800
to hungry for a moment. We're less than a year

664
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,719
out from another national election. I hear polls showing Orbon

665
00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,679
and his Fidees party is in running behind, is in

666
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:24,199
some trouble, but they've always been very clever and hardy campaigners.

667
00:36:24,199 --> 00:36:26,239
What maybe it's a little earlier for you to make

668
00:36:26,239 --> 00:36:29,239
a call, But what are you expecting? What are you

669
00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:29,960
looking for there?

670
00:36:30,039 --> 00:36:30,079
Speaker 1: What?

671
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:30,760
Speaker 3: What?

672
00:36:30,760 --> 00:36:33,880
Speaker 2: Which we call an election, not a tenant, I know,

673
00:36:34,119 --> 00:36:36,639
I know, but what I.

674
00:36:36,920 --> 00:36:39,000
Speaker 3: Have they have they outlaid, they're welcomes. It's just they're

675
00:36:39,039 --> 00:36:41,639
tired of having this one party in for fifteen years,

676
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:42,880
or there's something else happening.

677
00:36:43,079 --> 00:36:46,159
Speaker 2: What I argued years ago is that again this is

678
00:36:46,199 --> 00:36:51,239
you know, let's be let's be honest. Orbon has engaged

679
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:55,079
in some what would be considered thugish techniques, you know,

680
00:36:55,119 --> 00:36:57,320
which isn't He doesn't put his opponents in prison and

681
00:36:57,360 --> 00:36:59,480
so forth. But they do have some sort of consolidation

682
00:36:59,559 --> 00:37:03,760
overall lot of mass market media through interlocking ownerships and

683
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,119
so forth, that tends not to report about the opposition,

684
00:37:07,199 --> 00:37:09,920
you know, not just attacking like what they do here.

685
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:11,719
And you know, it's not like they at least mentioned

686
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:13,960
Trump's name and you know, give him a chance to

687
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,599
say something before they have ninety seconds of telling you

688
00:37:16,599 --> 00:37:18,840
how terrible he is, you know. Orbon doesn't even do

689
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:21,239
that with some of the media, cantill they don't even

690
00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:26,079
mention the opposition. But again, public opinion is everything unless

691
00:37:26,079 --> 00:37:29,679
you're going to abolish the voters. Orbon is kind of

692
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:33,639
facing the same problem that the elites and Brussels are facing.

693
00:37:34,119 --> 00:37:36,440
So Their argument I made years ago is why should

694
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:38,760
you be surprised that Orbon wins? Is that he's combined

695
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:45,159
economic capitalism with social support and Hungarian nationalism. And oh,

696
00:37:45,159 --> 00:37:47,119
by the way, if you look at every single election

697
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:49,639
going back to nineteen ninety, which are the first free

698
00:37:49,679 --> 00:37:53,800
elections after the fall of the Berlin Wall, that coalition

699
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,519
gets a majority. It used to be split between four

700
00:37:56,559 --> 00:37:59,039
parties and now it's in one party. Why should you

701
00:37:59,079 --> 00:38:02,199
be surprised that a guy who I don't know represents

702
00:38:02,239 --> 00:38:05,440
public opinion of Hungarians wins an election in Hungary?

703
00:38:06,239 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, what's happened.

704
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,679
Speaker 2: The economy is in the toilet. They've got high inflation,

705
00:38:12,039 --> 00:38:15,280
they're cutting back on subsidies and so forth, and they're desperate.

706
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,840
They're engaging in price controls. They're desperate to restore economic

707
00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,280
growth and low inflation. Before the election, and they're running

708
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:26,960
It used to be they were running against representatives of

709
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,519
the Brussels e League. And you know, it's kind of

710
00:38:29,639 --> 00:38:31,920
like if you were if you were the mayor of

711
00:38:31,960 --> 00:38:34,599
New York and Ghostbusters, here's here we go, and you

712
00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:35,320
had a choice.

713
00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 1: That's the fourth between.

714
00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: Doctor Vankman and people who say there's ghosts or the

715
00:38:42,039 --> 00:38:47,360
guy and the beard from the EPA department, right, and

716
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,159
and what is it that Bill Murray says. He says,

717
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,679
you know that if you believe us, you know you'll

718
00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:54,960
you know, you know, you know, we basically we represent

719
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,679
the people you care about, millions of registered voters, and

720
00:38:57,719 --> 00:38:59,880
that's when they get the okay to go checkout goes

721
00:39:00,199 --> 00:39:06,440
on the side. Yeah, they used to run against elites

722
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:09,519
who are Social Democrats who were based in Budapest. Now

723
00:39:09,559 --> 00:39:13,360
they're running against a former PETESH person who is basically saying,

724
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:16,199
you can have what you like about Orbon with me

725
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,960
Hungarian nationalism. And so it's he's kind of like Orbon plus.

726
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:24,000
And so yeah, he's running ahead in the polls. I

727
00:39:24,079 --> 00:39:28,199
have looked at all all the constituencies. I know exactly

728
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,760
where the election is going to turn, somewhere around Lake Balaton,

729
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:32,199
and I might be there too.

730
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:41,599
Speaker 1: I like to ask one of my trademark vague, interminable

731
00:39:41,639 --> 00:39:46,559
and ignorantly sourced questions. Here we're seeing the rise of nationalism, obviously,

732
00:39:47,039 --> 00:39:48,800
and I just remember all my life being told this

733
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,239
is very bad thing by the left. Nationalism is bad.

734
00:39:51,360 --> 00:39:53,679
Nationalism gave us World War One. One World War Two.

735
00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:56,679
Nationalism is good when Woodrow Wilson is trying to give

736
00:39:56,679 --> 00:39:58,760
everybody there in a little country. But nationalism is bad.

737
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,880
Nationalism now is good for Gaza and the Palestinians, and

738
00:40:03,079 --> 00:40:05,559
on some parts of the left, nationalism good for Ukraine.

739
00:40:05,599 --> 00:40:07,679
It's nice to see them standing up for that. But

740
00:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,199
in general, no, it's a bad idea. But what we

741
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:15,840
had there eventually in the post war Europe was a

742
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:19,000
movement towards a unified Europe, the Common Market, the EU,

743
00:40:19,039 --> 00:40:22,199
et cetera, that would respect national identities but at the

744
00:40:22,199 --> 00:40:26,360
same time subsume them into a general transnational project. And

745
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:30,039
my question to you is might that have worked, because

746
00:40:30,079 --> 00:40:31,920
I think that it would have. I think it would

747
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,679
have been cape. It would have been possible to create

748
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:39,320
a regulatory, legal, economic structure that spanned all of Europe,

749
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:43,199
but at the same time was keenly interested and invested

750
00:40:43,559 --> 00:40:47,519
in maintaining national identity. But I think that it fell

751
00:40:47,559 --> 00:40:50,039
apart because of the overweening desires of the people in

752
00:40:50,039 --> 00:40:53,519
Brussels to absolutely control every elemental atom in the various

753
00:40:53,519 --> 00:40:56,920
constituent states. I think Brexit happened when people woke up

754
00:40:57,039 --> 00:41:00,320
one day and looked at a a story on the

755
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,280
front page of the Telegraph and the Mirror in every

756
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:04,719
other paper that said the EU was about to regulate

757
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:08,280
kettles and how fast they boiled in order to stave

758
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:11,119
off climate change. And I think that's when people said,

759
00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:13,320
that's it. I'm not going to be part of this anymore.

760
00:41:13,519 --> 00:41:15,960
So did they just was it overreach that doomed the

761
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,360
project or were the seeds of its downfall there in

762
00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:20,159
the construction of it in the first place.

763
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,440
Speaker 2: I think it a little bit of both. You know.

764
00:41:22,599 --> 00:41:24,920
Is that let's take a look at the United States

765
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,000
of America. The United States of America started as thirteen

766
00:41:28,039 --> 00:41:32,679
separate colonies, and they became a country through a shared struggle,

767
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:36,519
the War for Independence, and then it took many years

768
00:41:36,559 --> 00:41:39,400
afterwards to finally settle on the way in which you

769
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,320
could maintain diversity and unity. And that was the Constitution.

770
00:41:45,159 --> 00:41:48,079
What the fundamental thing about the Constitution was that it

771
00:41:48,119 --> 00:41:51,519
was not intended to have a government in Washington that

772
00:41:51,559 --> 00:41:54,239
would regulate the things that most people would deal with

773
00:41:54,280 --> 00:41:57,559
on a daily basis. They would be one with respect

774
00:41:57,599 --> 00:42:03,039
to the shared project, which is foreign and removing the

775
00:42:03,079 --> 00:42:05,960
seeds for discord among the states. Hence why there was

776
00:42:06,079 --> 00:42:11,000
effectively established a free trade zone among the thirteen states

777
00:42:11,519 --> 00:42:17,320
and everything else was left to the states. And first

778
00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,000
of all, the European Union was not born out of

779
00:42:20,000 --> 00:42:23,760
a shared struggle. It was born out of a shared

780
00:42:23,880 --> 00:42:27,920
failure the feet of World War Two. So you didn't

781
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,360
have that sort of buy in. You know. Initially, what

782
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:33,000
you had was a buy in from the six original members,

783
00:42:33,039 --> 00:42:36,199
which were basically the countries who had been conquered by

784
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,320
one or another of them, you know, the Germans conquering

785
00:42:39,400 --> 00:42:41,639
the other five and then being conquered in turn by

786
00:42:41,639 --> 00:42:45,639
the Allies, who basically said we're going to bind ourselves

787
00:42:45,679 --> 00:42:48,599
together in an economic not a political union, so that

788
00:42:48,639 --> 00:42:52,519
we never go to war again. Okay, that could have worked.

789
00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, well right, I mean right, remember, I mean it

790
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,679
began as the European Coal and Steel a union. Right

791
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,239
now now we OUTSOEUS steel to China and we've outlawed coal.

792
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 2: So what's left, well, well, what's left is the Eurovision

793
00:43:06,519 --> 00:43:11,920
Song contest, so it's not going out of a struggle.

794
00:43:12,039 --> 00:43:15,639
And then what you have not done is real is

795
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,519
create that clear division of responsibilities. In a weird sense,

796
00:43:19,639 --> 00:43:24,039
they've inverted the American Constitution they try and regulate directly

797
00:43:24,119 --> 00:43:28,679
or indirectly everything that's economic, and they have no common

798
00:43:28,719 --> 00:43:33,039
foreign policy, and so you know, I would say the

799
00:43:34,159 --> 00:43:38,320
invasion of Ukraine gives them an opportunity to actually create

800
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,760
a shared struggle, which is the preservation of freedom throughout

801
00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:46,800
the European subcontinent or the European continent outside of you know,

802
00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:51,920
the parts that Russia controls, by creating a unified common

803
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:56,280
defense and reverting almost everything except for free trade and

804
00:43:56,320 --> 00:44:00,440
a common currency and a central bank to the nations. Now,

805
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:02,440
of course, that would mean there's no such thing as

806
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,159
a green New Deal. That would mean there's no such

807
00:44:04,199 --> 00:44:07,679
things as a European Court of Human Rights. In other words,

808
00:44:07,679 --> 00:44:10,559
the left can't go along with that. But that I

809
00:44:10,559 --> 00:44:15,199
think is what the populace right would be accepted, would

810
00:44:15,199 --> 00:44:20,239
find acceptable. But you know, absent that, then this can

811
00:44:20,320 --> 00:44:23,639
continue to be a project that is neither fish nor foul,

812
00:44:24,480 --> 00:44:26,280
and as a sense, just flounder.

813
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, Henry, let's go out today with one question.

814
00:44:31,119 --> 00:44:33,119
It's a big one about a scene here at home.

815
00:44:34,119 --> 00:44:38,199
So you know you have been acute an early perceptor.

816
00:44:38,239 --> 00:44:41,440
I guess i'd say of Trump's abilities, his appeal the

817
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,119
coalition he's put together. You mentioned earlier that it's a

818
00:44:44,159 --> 00:44:47,639
somewhat fragile one. So this is a big subject. So

819
00:44:47,679 --> 00:44:50,320
I'm going to limit you to giving us briefly the

820
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:55,559
top two vulnerabilities or hazards that Trump and his supporters

821
00:44:55,599 --> 00:44:57,440
should be on guardigans right now.

822
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:04,880
Speaker 2: The number one thing is failing to recognize the breath

823
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:08,960
of your coalition. That typically what's happened in the last

824
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:12,679
thirty years is that people campaign to create a new

825
00:45:12,679 --> 00:45:15,480
coalition and then they abandon the new elements of it

826
00:45:15,519 --> 00:45:19,559
when they take power, give power to the base. And

827
00:45:19,639 --> 00:45:21,480
you see elements of that in the Trump thing, you know,

828
00:45:21,519 --> 00:45:26,920
which is there's no real desire for a ban abolishing

829
00:45:26,960 --> 00:45:29,440
the Department of Education. It may not be something that

830
00:45:29,519 --> 00:45:35,800
is particularly of salience to people who voted for Biden

831
00:45:36,199 --> 00:45:41,320
and Clinton and Obama, but those aren't. That's why Trump

832
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,239
has got a majority is because of those voters. So

833
00:45:45,519 --> 00:45:49,280
by giving into the temptation to satisfy the base across

834
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,960
the board and ignore the swing voter, that's the first thing.

835
00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:52,880
Speaker 1: You have to worry about.

836
00:45:53,119 --> 00:45:57,119
Speaker 2: And then just from an issue standpoint, you can't have

837
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,000
You have to again deal with public opinionublic opinion wants

838
00:46:01,079 --> 00:46:04,679
is an economy that doesn't go into recession and where

839
00:46:04,679 --> 00:46:07,360
inflation is under control, but that the gains to the

840
00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,840
economy crew more to the workers on the margin than

841
00:46:10,920 --> 00:46:14,960
to the owners of capital. Trump has been very uneven

842
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:18,960
about pursuing this. And you know, the fixation on tariffs

843
00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:24,920
on tariffs, off tariffs, hot, tariffs coal. People don't want

844
00:46:24,960 --> 00:46:30,599
that is that is, they'd be happy and would be

845
00:46:30,639 --> 00:46:33,679
willing to give a chance to a new economic policy

846
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:37,000
that promises to over the long run, long run being

847
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:40,519
a political four years change, you know, put us on

848
00:46:40,559 --> 00:46:44,159
a new trajectory. But hot, cold, up down, Yes, No,

849
00:46:44,400 --> 00:46:47,159
is not something that they want. Is that Trump's job

850
00:46:47,199 --> 00:46:51,280
approval ratings started to go south on or around Liberation Day,

851
00:46:51,840 --> 00:46:56,280
it stopped going south on or around uh, the deal

852
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,880
with China. Yeah, and it started going back up. You

853
00:47:00,119 --> 00:47:03,000
start going back to the up down up, you know,

854
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,559
hot as cold, you know blue is red sort of

855
00:47:06,639 --> 00:47:09,280
what's going on then? And I guarantee you that by

856
00:47:09,400 --> 00:47:13,079
July fourth, Trump's job approval rating will be down again.

857
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: We will consider your fourth pop culture reference to be

858
00:47:16,119 --> 00:47:19,360
tariff on tariff off as a reference to karate Kid.

859
00:47:21,000 --> 00:47:23,239
And for that we salute you, and for any other reasons.

860
00:47:23,679 --> 00:47:26,480
Andrew's book The Working Class Republican Ronald Reagan in the

861
00:47:26,519 --> 00:47:29,159
Return of the Blue Collar Conservatism, And of course he's

862
00:47:29,159 --> 00:47:30,920
the host of Beyond the Polls, which you can find

863
00:47:31,039 --> 00:47:33,920
right here on the Ricochet Audio Network. Henry, thanks so

864
00:47:34,039 --> 00:47:35,559
much for joining us today. It's been fun. We'll get

865
00:47:35,559 --> 00:47:38,320
into another forty five minutes, but the store next time

866
00:47:38,320 --> 00:47:41,079
we're going to talk to you, we expect a sprinkling

867
00:47:41,159 --> 00:47:44,320
of pop culture references from the late nineties or even

868
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,639
the early aughts, so so stretch your horizons and your

869
00:47:49,119 --> 00:47:56,000
things in your cultural cupboard. Thanks are here before we go.

870
00:47:57,320 --> 00:48:01,840
There was a book, it's called Original Sin, just lighting

871
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:04,360
up Washington. Everyone's a buzz about it. I'm sure I

872
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,679
see the authors everywhere being asked a series of just

873
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:10,280
absolutely tough questions, just every one of them being skewered,

874
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:15,559
hoisted batards the whole business or not. Stephen, what do

875
00:48:15,599 --> 00:48:20,159
you make of this? I mean, it's the couple of

876
00:48:20,159 --> 00:48:21,880
things that amused me this week is well, we shouldn't

877
00:48:21,880 --> 00:48:24,000
be talking about any of this because Joe Biden is sick,

878
00:48:24,199 --> 00:48:28,440
and that why did the president release the her tapes?

879
00:48:29,039 --> 00:48:32,599
Now when he's just trying to take attention away from

880
00:48:32,599 --> 00:48:35,719
his own failures and the rest of it. Chuck Schumer

881
00:48:35,760 --> 00:48:37,599
is saying, we want to move on. We're focused on

882
00:48:37,639 --> 00:48:39,760
the future, which is what they always think that people

883
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:41,440
want to believe. But I think there is a general,

884
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:46,280
growing national question about who exactly was the president anyway,

885
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:49,360
And when you have revelations about the role of Hunter Biden,

886
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,400
I don't think a lot of people actually bought in

887
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:57,360
to that guy having a role of any significance whatsoever.

888
00:48:58,159 --> 00:49:01,639
The Hunter businesses, the stuff that that that makes my

889
00:49:01,639 --> 00:49:03,760
eyebrows go up the most, That on the auto pen,

890
00:49:04,199 --> 00:49:07,320
that on the inability to do anything best at eleven

891
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:10,639
o'clock in the morning. Do you think there's going to

892
00:49:10,639 --> 00:49:13,199
be an accounting because I don't.

893
00:49:13,960 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 3: Well, there should be, And apparently the House Oversight Committee

894
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:20,480
says they're going to resume hearings, and they had not

895
00:49:20,559 --> 00:49:23,639
yet subpoenaed the senior White House staff under Biden, but

896
00:49:23,719 --> 00:49:26,519
they should, and the resistance of poena, then I think

897
00:49:26,559 --> 00:49:30,119
that there are actual prosecutions of this. I mean, one

898
00:49:30,119 --> 00:49:32,320
of the problems with this book is that it hints

899
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,440
at who was running the White House, but seems incurious

900
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:38,559
about what the process was and asking about any particular

901
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:42,159
or specific decisions, like really, how did Joe Biden review

902
00:49:42,199 --> 00:49:44,679
twenty four hundred pardons all on one day in January?

903
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:44,920
Speaker 2: Right?

904
00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:48,079
Speaker 3: I mean, this is absurd. It's a whitewash for the media.

905
00:49:48,159 --> 00:49:49,880
By the way, Jane, you're gonna love this, James. Here

906
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:52,920
are two headlines from the last week. The Washington Post

907
00:49:53,039 --> 00:49:57,360
editorial board headline was Biden too frail for the job?

908
00:49:57,639 --> 00:50:04,199
Voters should have been informed? And the USA Today Biden's

909
00:50:04,199 --> 00:50:07,480
cancer diagnosis raises the question was he ever in good

910
00:50:07,559 --> 00:50:08,079
enough health?

911
00:50:08,599 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 2: Well?

912
00:50:08,960 --> 00:50:11,159
Speaker 3: You know that, God, somebody could have told us. Who

913
00:50:11,239 --> 00:50:14,119
might have been that? Right? I mean, you know, it's

914
00:50:14,199 --> 00:50:17,519
just a mystery, it is now. I you know here,

915
00:50:17,639 --> 00:50:21,039
I'm sorry, I'm going to be very harsh and rude,

916
00:50:21,199 --> 00:50:25,880
and people think I'm a moral monster. But I think

917
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:31,440
that there's a fitting irony of Biden's diagnosis of cancer,

918
00:50:31,880 --> 00:50:34,840
an advanced case of it, apparently, because he has been

919
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:38,320
a malignant force in American politics in his entire career.

920
00:50:38,559 --> 00:50:40,239
I mean, I think you can put an awful lot

921
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:43,079
of the blame for the toxic character of American politics

922
00:50:43,079 --> 00:50:47,199
on his behavior in the Bork nomination thirty five years ago.

923
00:50:47,599 --> 00:50:49,679
You know, there's a great quote I have in one

924
00:50:49,719 --> 00:50:52,039
of my books where Biden said in nineteen eighty six,

925
00:50:52,159 --> 00:50:55,639
right before he became chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee,

926
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:58,280
he said, if President Reagan sends up Robert Borke, I'd

927
00:50:58,280 --> 00:51:00,599
probably have to vote for him. He's qualified. That presidents

928
00:51:00,599 --> 00:51:03,280
should get their appointees of they're qualified. And if the

929
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:06,039
groups tear me apart, I'll just have to live with it.

930
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:11,239
I'm not Ted Kennedy exact quote. I'm memorized. And of course,

931
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:16,280
within thirty seconds of the Bork nomination, Biden capitulated to

932
00:51:16,440 --> 00:51:19,400
the groups, who also we now ran his White House,

933
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:24,199
the groups and Ted Kennedy right, and he totally distorted

934
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:26,920
the U digital politics ever since. And I think that's

935
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:30,360
spread across the board in politics. And I think that

936
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:32,199
and they tried to run that drill over again, right.

937
00:51:32,320 --> 00:51:35,320
Just ask Brett Kavanaugh, Just asked Clarence Thomas. Just ask

938
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:38,320
any number of nominees and other figures that we now

939
00:51:38,599 --> 00:51:43,320
decide that personal attacks are legitimate and is now main

940
00:51:43,360 --> 00:51:45,960
part of the Democratic playbook. He was the author of that.

941
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:48,480
So it's always been a myth that he was, oh,

942
00:51:48,519 --> 00:51:52,039
good old moderate Joe from Scranton. He nevererly stood for

943
00:51:52,119 --> 00:51:56,119
anything except himself. And I think that's now fully revealed everybody.

944
00:51:56,159 --> 00:51:58,760
And my last word is all those people who work

945
00:51:58,840 --> 00:52:02,559
for him Donalan, Jake Sullivan, Steve Schetty, all the rest,

946
00:52:02,639 --> 00:52:05,360
and they should never have a job again, ever anywhere

947
00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:07,239
in politics, and certainly not in government.

948
00:52:08,159 --> 00:52:10,039
Speaker 1: I was having a conversation last year with somebody in

949
00:52:10,079 --> 00:52:13,039
England who was a member of the who wrote columns

950
00:52:13,039 --> 00:52:15,639
for a very influential paper, who was just who was

951
00:52:15,679 --> 00:52:19,320
saying that Joe Biden instructor as a kindly grandpa figure.

952
00:52:20,280 --> 00:52:26,599
And I said, no, No, that may be because he's dim,

953
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:30,400
and he's in the marbles, have all rolled down a

954
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:32,639
hole in his spine and clattered out somewhere on the floor.

955
00:52:32,639 --> 00:52:35,599
But let me tell you, this man is a prevaricating

956
00:52:35,679 --> 00:52:40,559
intellectual nullity of boundless self regard. He's an awful man,

957
00:52:40,639 --> 00:52:43,719
and anybody's been watching him all these times knows that

958
00:52:43,880 --> 00:52:46,159
he is an awful man. And the way his positionship

959
00:52:46,199 --> 00:52:48,920
shifted from this to that with equal conviction. I mean,

960
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:51,920
just because he got soft as putting in his dotage

961
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:56,320
doesn't mean that he hasn't been a nasty fellow before.

962
00:52:56,480 --> 00:53:00,000
And again the self regard, the inflation of the resume,

963
00:53:00,039 --> 00:53:04,639
made the plagiarism, the constant need to I mean, it's

964
00:53:04,719 --> 00:53:06,800
okay to be a guy from Scranton who makes it

965
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:09,039
into the Senate. That's accomplishment enough. But he's always going

966
00:53:09,079 --> 00:53:11,360
back and finding apples from his past and polishing them

967
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,239
a little bit more. I just I cannot stand them

968
00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:17,639
in regardless of politics, regardless of them because there were

969
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:19,400
times when I, you know, when I agreed with some

970
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:21,639
of the positions that he had, but there was just

971
00:53:21,719 --> 00:53:25,119
a sneer and pointedness to him that I just that,

972
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:27,599
coupled with the with the egotism, just made him, I thought,

973
00:53:27,599 --> 00:53:30,079
an incredibly unattractive figure. But they got old, and then

974
00:53:30,079 --> 00:53:32,840
he got Then then he was the gravitas plug that

975
00:53:32,880 --> 00:53:35,159
was dropped into the Obama administration to bring it weight

976
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:38,559
because we were so concerned about the inexperience of the occupant.

977
00:53:39,519 --> 00:53:42,800
Oh good times, good times, as the kids saying before

978
00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:44,360
we go out, one last little thing that we do

979
00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,920
that bores everybody because they don't care. But I'll ask you, Steven,

980
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:48,719
what are you watching on television?

981
00:53:50,119 --> 00:53:50,440
Speaker 3: Nothing?

982
00:53:50,519 --> 00:53:50,639
Speaker 4: Right?

983
00:53:50,679 --> 00:53:52,679
Speaker 3: Now I'm so far behind on so many projects, and

984
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,159
I'm about to go traveling for a month overseas, although

985
00:53:55,159 --> 00:53:59,159
I'll still show up for our weekly conversation. So I

986
00:53:59,159 --> 00:54:02,360
haven't been watching any thing, not even the news.

987
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,599
Speaker 1: But you don't load up your iPad or your iPhone

988
00:54:04,639 --> 00:54:07,280
with content before you go on a trip so you

989
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:08,920
can watch something. And one of those guys who sits

990
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:10,159
there on the plane and just looks up.

991
00:54:10,920 --> 00:54:13,400
Speaker 3: Right, No, I probably will do that, but that's ahead

992
00:54:13,400 --> 00:54:14,239
of me, not behind me.

993
00:54:15,320 --> 00:54:17,079
Speaker 1: Well, on my upcoming flight, I plan to take as

994
00:54:17,159 --> 00:54:20,199
usual to Perry Mason's, because there's nothing better sitting down

995
00:54:20,199 --> 00:54:22,400
for your little airplane meal than with a Perry Mason.

996
00:54:22,480 --> 00:54:25,000
You are guaranteed a story, You're guaranteed a mystery, you

997
00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,079
are guaranteed a resolution, and then it's done, unlike most

998
00:54:28,079 --> 00:54:30,199
of modern television, which will go on and on and

999
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,679
on for twelve fifteen episodes and drag you to the

1000
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:36,440
last episode where there's a cliffhanger, and then you got

1001
00:54:36,559 --> 00:54:40,119
to wait for another two years before they gather everybody

1002
00:54:40,119 --> 00:54:42,880
together and do it up again. I am, however, happy

1003
00:54:42,880 --> 00:54:44,800
to say that of the many shows that I have cued,

1004
00:54:44,880 --> 00:54:48,039
I blasted through one end to end two nights sometimes.

1005
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:50,400
But the first season of and Or as a man

1006
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:53,280
who is utterly completely disgusted with Star Wars and tired

1007
00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:54,880
of it and found it to be the children's show

1008
00:54:54,920 --> 00:54:57,440
that it actually revealed itself to be. I was stunned

1009
00:54:57,480 --> 00:54:59,480
to find that they actually made a grown up version

1010
00:54:59,519 --> 00:55:03,000
of it. That an extraordinary piece of storytelling. So now

1011
00:55:03,039 --> 00:55:04,960
I got to start season two tonight and then maybe

1012
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,199
find on the plane. I'll watch the last episode, stand

1013
00:55:08,239 --> 00:55:09,800
up a cheer at three o'clock in the morning as

1014
00:55:09,840 --> 00:55:13,519
the plane is arcing its way through the dark. Knight, folks,

1015
00:55:13,559 --> 00:55:15,000
you got to go to Ricochet, is what you have

1016
00:55:15,039 --> 00:55:16,800
to do. If this is your seven hundred and forty

1017
00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:18,760
first podcast and you've never gotten there, I don't know

1018
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,920
what's the matter with you. It's unlikely, but it's statistically possible.

1019
00:55:22,159 --> 00:55:24,159
If you go there, you will find in the member feed.

1020
00:55:24,239 --> 00:55:26,760
Oh sorry, you can't because you don't belong, but we'd

1021
00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,239
love you to belong. Everybody can read the main page.

1022
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,280
You're going to listen to the podcast, But the member

1023
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,679
feed was just the other day we were talking something

1024
00:55:33,679 --> 00:55:37,039
about politics, something about Judaism, something about music, because one

1025
00:55:37,039 --> 00:55:40,079
of the members had attended the madel A Great Long

1026
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:44,280
Malarian love Fest in Europe. I mean, it's everything. It

1027
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,159
is the sane, civil center right conversation you've been looking

1028
00:55:47,159 --> 00:55:49,400
for on the internet. You won't find it on Twitter X,

1029
00:55:49,480 --> 00:55:52,239
you won't find it in Facebook. You'll find it at Ricochet.

1030
00:55:52,679 --> 00:55:54,199
And yeah, you got to pay a couple of shekels

1031
00:55:54,199 --> 00:55:56,960
for it. And that's fine because that keeps everybody with

1032
00:55:57,119 --> 00:56:00,679
as Rob Long used to say, Brother Rob, it keeps us,

1033
00:56:01,039 --> 00:56:03,320
keeps you with skin in the game. I'm James, Lilyox

1034
00:56:03,440 --> 00:56:06,679
here in Minneapolis, Stephen in California, You and a listener

1035
00:56:06,719 --> 00:56:09,000
are wherever you are. We thank you for dropping by,

1036
00:56:09,119 --> 00:56:11,119
and we hope to see you in the next episode

1037
00:56:11,159 --> 00:56:13,360
of the podcast. In the meantime, we'll see everybody in

1038
00:56:13,360 --> 00:56:17,880
the comments at Rigoget four point h Bye bye next week, James,