WEBVTT

1
00:00:29.519 --> 00:00:32.119
<v Speaker 1>Welcome back to the path, went Chiley for part two

2
00:00:32.200 --> 00:00:35.960
<v Speaker 1>of our series about the disappearance of Evelyn Hartley. Robin,

3
00:00:35.960 --> 00:00:37.479
<v Speaker 1>do you want to catch everyone up? And when we

4
00:00:37.520 --> 00:00:39.640
<v Speaker 1>talked about in our previous episode.

5
00:00:40.039 --> 00:00:41.920
<v Speaker 2>Well, this case takes place all the way back in

6
00:00:41.960 --> 00:00:45.159
<v Speaker 2>October of nineteen fifty three in the town of Lacrosse, Wisconsin.

7
00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:48.000
<v Speaker 2>Evelyn Harley was a fifteen year old girl who'd been

8
00:00:48.039 --> 00:00:51.439
<v Speaker 2>asked to babysit for a family friend or an infant

9
00:00:51.479 --> 00:00:54.359
<v Speaker 2>daughter while they went to a football game. Evelyn was

10
00:00:54.359 --> 00:00:56.640
<v Speaker 2>going to spend the night alone and was supposed to

11
00:00:56.719 --> 00:00:58.719
<v Speaker 2>call her parents to check in every now and then,

12
00:00:58.799 --> 00:01:01.679
<v Speaker 2>but she didn't call, and when they tried calling the residence,

13
00:01:01.719 --> 00:01:04.040
<v Speaker 2>there was no answer. So her father went over there

14
00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:06.799
<v Speaker 2>and he looked in through the front window. No one

15
00:01:06.840 --> 00:01:09.519
<v Speaker 2>answered the door, and he noticed that Evelyn's shoe and

16
00:01:09.799 --> 00:01:12.359
<v Speaker 2>her glasses were broken on the floor, so he immediately

17
00:01:12.359 --> 00:01:16.000
<v Speaker 2>became concerned. We entered through the basement window, which was

18
00:01:16.079 --> 00:01:19.159
<v Speaker 2>now open, and it seemed apparent that a violent struggle

19
00:01:19.159 --> 00:01:21.480
<v Speaker 2>had taken place and that Evelyn was the victim of

20
00:01:21.519 --> 00:01:25.200
<v Speaker 2>an abduction, as they even found blood outside the house

21
00:01:25.400 --> 00:01:27.879
<v Speaker 2>and a couple of witnesses would later come forward claiming

22
00:01:27.920 --> 00:01:31.040
<v Speaker 2>that they saw Evelyn appeared to be dragged across the

23
00:01:31.120 --> 00:01:33.840
<v Speaker 2>lawn by two unidentified men who took her away in

24
00:01:33.959 --> 00:01:36.120
<v Speaker 2>a car, and he did a search of the area.

25
00:01:36.200 --> 00:01:39.200
<v Speaker 2>They found some bloody clothing which appeared like it might

26
00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:42.319
<v Speaker 2>have belonged to Evelyn, also some bloody denim jacket, and

27
00:01:42.359 --> 00:01:44.799
<v Speaker 2>some bloody tennis shoes which may have belonged to one

28
00:01:45.000 --> 00:01:48.239
<v Speaker 2>or both of her abductors. They looked into some suspects,

29
00:01:48.239 --> 00:01:51.680
<v Speaker 2>including notorious murderer Ed Dean, who was originally born in

30
00:01:51.719 --> 00:01:55.159
<v Speaker 2>Wisconsin and lived several miles away on his own farm.

31
00:01:55.519 --> 00:01:58.400
<v Speaker 2>They didn't really have any leads, but on the fiftieth

32
00:01:58.400 --> 00:02:02.239
<v Speaker 2>anniversary of Evelyn's dis appearance, a witness would come forward,

33
00:02:02.280 --> 00:02:04.439
<v Speaker 2>who with a tape recording that he had made all

34
00:02:04.480 --> 00:02:06.879
<v Speaker 2>the way back at a tavern in nineteen sixty eight,

35
00:02:07.359 --> 00:02:11.039
<v Speaker 2>where two men allegedly bragged about having been involved in

36
00:02:11.240 --> 00:02:14.560
<v Speaker 2>abducting Evelyn. They said that three people were involved in total,

37
00:02:14.599 --> 00:02:17.120
<v Speaker 2>and that her remains were buried on a farm belonging

38
00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:20.639
<v Speaker 2>to one of the perpetrators. But unfortunately, most of these

39
00:02:20.680 --> 00:02:23.159
<v Speaker 2>suspects were already dead by this point, and the one

40
00:02:23.240 --> 00:02:26.919
<v Speaker 2>surviving suspect was in a nursing home and had dementia

41
00:02:27.000 --> 00:02:30.120
<v Speaker 2>and couldn't be questioned before he died a few years later.

42
00:02:30.520 --> 00:02:33.240
<v Speaker 2>But they've never found any evidence to corroborate this story,

43
00:02:33.360 --> 00:02:36.960
<v Speaker 2>and thus far, after seventy years, Evelyn is technically still

44
00:02:37.000 --> 00:02:37.719
<v Speaker 2>a missing person.

45
00:02:38.919 --> 00:02:41.680
<v Speaker 1>It's quite fascinating to look back and see how the

46
00:02:41.719 --> 00:02:46.000
<v Speaker 1>original investigation into Evelyn's disappearance was handled, as there are

47
00:02:46.039 --> 00:02:48.960
<v Speaker 1>so many things which took place that you would never

48
00:02:49.039 --> 00:02:52.560
<v Speaker 1>see today. This is the only case I've ever seen

49
00:02:52.759 --> 00:02:55.919
<v Speaker 1>where vehicles in the community were inspected and had a

50
00:02:55.960 --> 00:02:59.159
<v Speaker 1>sticker attached to them which read my car is okay.

51
00:03:00.240 --> 00:03:02.879
<v Speaker 1>And you can imagine what the reaction would be in

52
00:03:02.960 --> 00:03:05.599
<v Speaker 1>this day and age if law enforcement announced that they

53
00:03:05.599 --> 00:03:08.039
<v Speaker 1>were going to visit all the schools in the community

54
00:03:08.080 --> 00:03:11.840
<v Speaker 1>and give polygraph tests to all the male students, parents

55
00:03:11.840 --> 00:03:15.719
<v Speaker 1>would probably blow a gasket. Of course, back then, people

56
00:03:15.719 --> 00:03:19.400
<v Speaker 1>were not aware of just how unreliable polygraph tests are,

57
00:03:19.919 --> 00:03:22.800
<v Speaker 1>and these days you'll often hear attorneys advise people not

58
00:03:22.919 --> 00:03:25.520
<v Speaker 1>to take them at all, even if they're completely innocent.

59
00:03:26.039 --> 00:03:28.759
<v Speaker 1>It was just a much different time back then. As

60
00:03:28.759 --> 00:03:33.000
<v Speaker 1>Evelyn's father, Richard Hartley, immediately volunteered to take a polygraph

61
00:03:33.479 --> 00:03:35.919
<v Speaker 1>just so he could officially be cleared as a suspect,

62
00:03:36.560 --> 00:03:40.199
<v Speaker 1>though no one really believed he was responsible. Even though

63
00:03:40.199 --> 00:03:42.919
<v Speaker 1>the school board eventually put a stop to the polygraphs,

64
00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:45.560
<v Speaker 1>it sounds like the three hundred people who took them

65
00:03:45.759 --> 00:03:48.199
<v Speaker 1>were very cooperative and none of them objected.

66
00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:52.159
<v Speaker 3>What's really interesting, and we talked about this on the

67
00:03:52.280 --> 00:03:56.919
<v Speaker 3>first episode, is that the police really did go to

68
00:03:57.000 --> 00:04:00.520
<v Speaker 3>these in some ways extreme measures to gather evidence and

69
00:04:00.560 --> 00:04:04.680
<v Speaker 3>to try to look for perpetrators who could have apprehended Evelyn.

70
00:04:05.159 --> 00:04:07.680
<v Speaker 3>And it was really smart to start with the schools.

71
00:04:07.919 --> 00:04:11.960
<v Speaker 3>Evelyn's a teenage girl. Someone likely knew she was at

72
00:04:12.000 --> 00:04:14.639
<v Speaker 3>that house, That's what it feels like, and or it

73
00:04:14.639 --> 00:04:17.560
<v Speaker 3>was a crime of opportunity. So the idea of we're

74
00:04:17.560 --> 00:04:18.959
<v Speaker 3>going to go to these schools and we're going to

75
00:04:19.160 --> 00:04:22.000
<v Speaker 3>polygraph these young men and see if any of them

76
00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:26.959
<v Speaker 3>might be a suspect, there's a genius idea. Yes, polygraphs

77
00:04:27.000 --> 00:04:30.079
<v Speaker 3>are not reliable. They usually say they're like fifteen to

78
00:04:30.120 --> 00:04:32.480
<v Speaker 3>twenty percent error rates, which is way too high when

79
00:04:32.480 --> 00:04:37.920
<v Speaker 3>you talk about someone's criminal innocence or guilt. I'm so

80
00:04:38.079 --> 00:04:42.000
<v Speaker 3>impressed that back in the fifties. They're searching vehicles from

81
00:04:42.040 --> 00:04:44.680
<v Speaker 3>the community and putting stickers on it to say car

82
00:04:44.720 --> 00:04:45.639
<v Speaker 3>has already been cleared.

83
00:04:45.959 --> 00:04:47.240
<v Speaker 2>They're going to the schools.

84
00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.040
<v Speaker 3>They're even doing things like turning up and looking through

85
00:04:50.439 --> 00:04:54.360
<v Speaker 3>recently Dug Graves to see if maybe Evelyn was dumped there.

86
00:04:54.800 --> 00:04:59.040
<v Speaker 3>And so it is very impressive that back in the

87
00:04:59.120 --> 00:05:02.639
<v Speaker 3>nineteen fifties do you have a police force so dedicated

88
00:05:03.240 --> 00:05:06.839
<v Speaker 3>to looking for her and it's insane that she was

89
00:05:06.920 --> 00:05:07.560
<v Speaker 3>never found.

90
00:05:08.519 --> 00:05:10.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, definitely wasn't a lack of effort. And I'm sure

91
00:05:10.639 --> 00:05:12.759
<v Speaker 2>if a lot of these practices took place today, you'd

92
00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:15.800
<v Speaker 2>have people complaining about having their civil rights violated. But

93
00:05:15.959 --> 00:05:18.000
<v Speaker 2>back then they just said, sure, we'll do whatever we

94
00:05:18.040 --> 00:05:20.480
<v Speaker 2>can to help you find this missing girl, and they

95
00:05:20.519 --> 00:05:23.839
<v Speaker 2>cooperated in every way. But this was what makes me

96
00:05:23.920 --> 00:05:26.360
<v Speaker 2>think that whoever her abductor was was someone who did

97
00:05:26.360 --> 00:05:29.639
<v Speaker 2>not live in Lacrosse or the immediate area and probably

98
00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:31.800
<v Speaker 2>were never investigated at the time.

99
00:05:33.319 --> 00:05:35.920
<v Speaker 1>Do you know if Lacrosse has a lot of lakes

100
00:05:36.000 --> 00:05:37.040
<v Speaker 1>or wooded area.

101
00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:40.079
<v Speaker 2>I think so, Yeah, Like it's surrounded by a lot

102
00:05:40.079 --> 00:05:42.680
<v Speaker 2>of remote stuff, so there would have been ample places

103
00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:46.000
<v Speaker 2>to dispose of her body. I think they even talked

104
00:05:46.000 --> 00:05:49.120
<v Speaker 2>about on the episode that she was allegedly buried somewhere

105
00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:52.519
<v Speaker 2>near a Mississippi River floodplain, so it would have been

106
00:05:52.560 --> 00:05:56.079
<v Speaker 2>easy for her remains to be lost forever. So on

107
00:05:56.120 --> 00:05:59.079
<v Speaker 2>the surface, this might seem like a fairly straightforward case.

108
00:05:59.639 --> 00:06:02.399
<v Speaker 2>We know Evelyn was abducted and likely murdered, but the

109
00:06:02.399 --> 00:06:06.079
<v Speaker 2>one thing we don't know is who the perpetrator was. However,

110
00:06:06.079 --> 00:06:08.839
<v Speaker 2>there are still a number of baffling unanswered questions about

111
00:06:08.839 --> 00:06:12.279
<v Speaker 2>how these events might have unfolded. Since Evelyn was abducted

112
00:06:12.319 --> 00:06:15.639
<v Speaker 2>well babysitting at another family's house, this opened up debate

113
00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:18.800
<v Speaker 2>about whether she was specifically targeted or she was simply

114
00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:21.759
<v Speaker 2>in the wrong place at the wrong time. You've heard

115
00:06:21.800 --> 00:06:25.040
<v Speaker 2>me talk extensively about the nineteen eighty four disappearance and

116
00:06:25.199 --> 00:06:28.519
<v Speaker 2>murder of twelve year old Janelle Matthews, who was abducted

117
00:06:28.519 --> 00:06:31.000
<v Speaker 2>from her home in a fashion that was quite similar

118
00:06:31.040 --> 00:06:34.600
<v Speaker 2>to Evelyn's case. Even though a suspect named Steve Panky

119
00:06:34.680 --> 00:06:37.759
<v Speaker 2>has been charged and convicted of Janelle's murder, he had

120
00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:40.160
<v Speaker 2>no known connection to the victim, and since he has

121
00:06:40.199 --> 00:06:43.199
<v Speaker 2>never admitted any culpability, we still don't know if he

122
00:06:43.279 --> 00:06:47.120
<v Speaker 2>specifically targeted Janelle, or if she was selected at random.

123
00:06:47.439 --> 00:06:50.920
<v Speaker 2>We still have these same unanswered questions in Evelyn's disappearance,

124
00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:53.720
<v Speaker 2>though the key difference is that she was babysitting at

125
00:06:53.759 --> 00:06:56.839
<v Speaker 2>another family's house, and I'd be very curious to know

126
00:06:56.959 --> 00:06:59.079
<v Speaker 2>how many people knew she was going to be there.

127
00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:03.079
<v Speaker 2>Evelyn had never babysat for the ras Musen family before,

128
00:07:03.480 --> 00:07:07.120
<v Speaker 2>and only took the job because the regular babysitter, Janis Cowley,

129
00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:10.680
<v Speaker 2>was attending the homecoming game that night. Since the game

130
00:07:10.759 --> 00:07:13.839
<v Speaker 2>was such a big deal in lacrosse and Digo Rasmusen

131
00:07:13.879 --> 00:07:16.519
<v Speaker 2>was a professor at the college, someone who knew the

132
00:07:16.519 --> 00:07:19.480
<v Speaker 2>family's routine might have assumed Bigo would attend the game

133
00:07:19.759 --> 00:07:22.839
<v Speaker 2>and hire his regular babysitter to watch his infant daughter

134
00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:26.120
<v Speaker 2>that night, but the abductor didn't realize that Evelyn would

135
00:07:26.120 --> 00:07:29.240
<v Speaker 2>be there instead. Well, no one has ever turned up

136
00:07:29.240 --> 00:07:32.720
<v Speaker 2>any evidence to suggest that Janis Cowley was the intended target.

137
00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:34.959
<v Speaker 2>It would be one thing if this had been a

138
00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:38.399
<v Speaker 2>last minute arrangement, but Evelyn had agreed to babysit at

139
00:07:38.399 --> 00:07:40.720
<v Speaker 2>the rass Musseen residence days in advance.

140
00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:45.600
<v Speaker 3>Here's what's interesting is there's also the possibility that she

141
00:07:46.319 --> 00:07:49.800
<v Speaker 3>was in touch with friends or individuals who were asking

142
00:07:49.839 --> 00:07:53.160
<v Speaker 3>her to go out for homecoming, and it's possible that

143
00:07:53.160 --> 00:07:54.920
<v Speaker 3>that's one of the reasons that she didn't want a

144
00:07:54.920 --> 00:07:58.360
<v Speaker 3>babysit that night. Remember, she had expressed some reluctance to

145
00:07:58.399 --> 00:07:59.920
<v Speaker 3>her mom, like I don't really want to go to

146
00:08:00.759 --> 00:08:04.199
<v Speaker 3>and mom says, no, ma'am, you made a commitment. You're

147
00:08:04.199 --> 00:08:06.399
<v Speaker 3>going to follow through with that because the family has

148
00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:09.360
<v Speaker 3>plans and you gave them your word. If she had

149
00:08:09.439 --> 00:08:11.639
<v Speaker 3>told people, oh, I can't go, I have to go

150
00:08:11.759 --> 00:08:17.079
<v Speaker 3>babysit for the Rasmussen family, then it's possible that it

151
00:08:17.279 --> 00:08:18.639
<v Speaker 3>is somebody that she knew.

152
00:08:19.319 --> 00:08:20.639
<v Speaker 2>I'm assuming that they would have.

153
00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:23.079
<v Speaker 3>Started with those friends though when they were starting to

154
00:08:23.079 --> 00:08:24.920
<v Speaker 3>do those three hundred polygraph tests.

155
00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:29.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like, I'm sure they looked extensively into everyone from

156
00:08:29.079 --> 00:08:31.519
<v Speaker 2>Evelyn's personal life, like a lot of her male friends,

157
00:08:31.519 --> 00:08:33.720
<v Speaker 2>and tried to figure out who knew she would be

158
00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:36.480
<v Speaker 2>at the house babysitting that night. I mean, I think

159
00:08:36.519 --> 00:08:38.840
<v Speaker 2>you're correct that because she had wanted to go to

160
00:08:38.879 --> 00:08:41.679
<v Speaker 2>the homecoming game instead, she probably told people, oh, I

161
00:08:41.679 --> 00:08:44.080
<v Speaker 2>got a babysit tonight, even though I don't really want to,

162
00:08:44.639 --> 00:08:47.399
<v Speaker 2>but who knows, Like maybe your friends told other people

163
00:08:47.440 --> 00:08:50.600
<v Speaker 2>and then were just spread until the wrong person learned that, Oh,

164
00:08:50.639 --> 00:08:53.240
<v Speaker 2>Evelyn's going to be alone tonight at this house and

165
00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:56.279
<v Speaker 2>be completely vulnerable. Now's my opportunity to come ubductor.

166
00:08:57.559 --> 00:09:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Throughout the investigation, no one uncovered anybody from Evelyn's background

167
00:09:02.039 --> 00:09:04.679
<v Speaker 1>who seemed like a potential suspect with a motive to

168
00:09:04.759 --> 00:09:08.200
<v Speaker 1>murder her. The one aspect of this case which does

169
00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:11.720
<v Speaker 1>seem pretty clear is the approximate time period when Evelyn

170
00:09:11.799 --> 00:09:15.240
<v Speaker 1>was abducted. She had instructions to put baby Janie to

171
00:09:15.320 --> 00:09:18.120
<v Speaker 1>bed at seven pm and cover her with a blanket

172
00:09:18.159 --> 00:09:22.039
<v Speaker 1>at seven pin fifteen, but since the child was found uncovered,

173
00:09:22.480 --> 00:09:26.720
<v Speaker 1>Evelyn was presumably taken before she could do this. Given

174
00:09:26.720 --> 00:09:30.360
<v Speaker 1>the neighbors were called hearing screams during this fifteen minute window,

175
00:09:31.000 --> 00:09:33.759
<v Speaker 1>you can definitely pinpoint it as the time that Evelyn

176
00:09:33.879 --> 00:09:38.000
<v Speaker 1>was being attacked. Now, even if Evelyn herself was not

177
00:09:38.039 --> 00:09:41.960
<v Speaker 1>specifically targeted. One aspect of this case which is still

178
00:09:42.039 --> 00:09:44.919
<v Speaker 1>up for debate is whether the person who took her

179
00:09:45.120 --> 00:09:48.320
<v Speaker 1>was an opportunistic predator or if they were attempting a

180
00:09:48.360 --> 00:09:51.080
<v Speaker 1>burglary and did not know that anyone was in the house.

181
00:09:52.080 --> 00:09:54.679
<v Speaker 1>As hard as it may be to fathom now, there

182
00:09:54.679 --> 00:09:56.919
<v Speaker 1>were no curtains on the living room window of the

183
00:09:57.000 --> 00:10:00.159
<v Speaker 1>Ris muse in Residence. This is just another symptom of

184
00:10:00.200 --> 00:10:03.320
<v Speaker 1>it being a much different time period, as people felt

185
00:10:03.360 --> 00:10:07.000
<v Speaker 1>safe living in this particular section of town. Someone cruising

186
00:10:07.039 --> 00:10:08.879
<v Speaker 1>through the neighborhood could have caught a glimpse of the

187
00:10:08.960 --> 00:10:12.399
<v Speaker 1>rasmusin residence, seen a teenage girl sitting in the living

188
00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:15.279
<v Speaker 1>room alone through the front window, and decided to take

189
00:10:15.320 --> 00:10:18.840
<v Speaker 1>the opportunity to grab her. Primarks were found on at

190
00:10:18.919 --> 00:10:21.840
<v Speaker 1>least one other window, so it looked like the perpetrator

191
00:10:21.879 --> 00:10:24.080
<v Speaker 1>made a couple of failed attempts to enter the house

192
00:10:24.440 --> 00:10:27.559
<v Speaker 1>before they managed to get inside through the basement. But

193
00:10:27.600 --> 00:10:31.080
<v Speaker 1>what if the perpetrator was a burglar. Yes, it appears

194
00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:34.159
<v Speaker 1>that nothing was stolen from the house, but it's possible

195
00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:36.720
<v Speaker 1>that burglar was forced to flee the scene without taking

196
00:10:36.759 --> 00:10:40.360
<v Speaker 1>everything once they realized that Evelyn was there. If she

197
00:10:40.399 --> 00:10:42.360
<v Speaker 1>had seen his face or something, he might have felt

198
00:10:42.440 --> 00:10:46.039
<v Speaker 1>he needed to abduct her. Like we mentioned earlier, given

199
00:10:46.039 --> 00:10:49.320
<v Speaker 1>that Vigo Resmusim was a professor at Lacrosse State College,

200
00:10:49.759 --> 00:10:52.559
<v Speaker 1>someone could have knowed he'd be attending the homecoming game

201
00:10:52.600 --> 00:10:55.240
<v Speaker 1>that night with his family. They might have been under

202
00:10:55.240 --> 00:10:58.360
<v Speaker 1>the mistaken impression that the house would be unoccupied and

203
00:10:58.519 --> 00:11:00.759
<v Speaker 1>unaware that there was a baby's that are looking after

204
00:11:00.799 --> 00:11:04.399
<v Speaker 1>their infant child. Of course, the problem with that theory

205
00:11:04.720 --> 00:11:07.360
<v Speaker 1>is that anyone who went through the neighborhood on Hostlar

206
00:11:07.440 --> 00:11:09.919
<v Speaker 1>Drive that night would have been able to see that

207
00:11:09.960 --> 00:11:13.039
<v Speaker 1>someone was inside the house through the front window, since

208
00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:15.879
<v Speaker 1>the living room lights were on. But on the other hand,

209
00:11:15.960 --> 00:11:19.240
<v Speaker 1>the tracking dogs did follow Evelyn sent through the backyard

210
00:11:19.320 --> 00:11:22.799
<v Speaker 1>to Cooley Drive, where it's believed that her abductor placed

211
00:11:22.799 --> 00:11:26.720
<v Speaker 1>her inside a vehicle and drove away. That particular spot

212
00:11:26.759 --> 00:11:30.200
<v Speaker 1>is located northeast of the resmuse In residence. If the

213
00:11:30.240 --> 00:11:33.919
<v Speaker 1>perpetrator parked their vehicle on Cooley Drive and approached the

214
00:11:33.960 --> 00:11:36.720
<v Speaker 1>house from the back, they might not have even seen

215
00:11:36.759 --> 00:11:39.159
<v Speaker 1>the living room window and noticed the lights were on

216
00:11:39.679 --> 00:11:40.879
<v Speaker 1>and that someone was home.

217
00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:43.480
<v Speaker 3>That is a really good point of it being just

218
00:11:43.639 --> 00:11:48.000
<v Speaker 3>a random burglar, where maybe they see the family drive

219
00:11:48.039 --> 00:11:50.559
<v Speaker 3>away from the home and they believe, listen, this is

220
00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:53.440
<v Speaker 3>homecoming night. This whole area is obsessed with the game,

221
00:11:54.039 --> 00:11:55.759
<v Speaker 3>and a lot of people are not going to be

222
00:11:55.799 --> 00:11:57.879
<v Speaker 3>at their home in the evening, which is actually when

223
00:11:57.919 --> 00:12:01.200
<v Speaker 3>most people are home. So this me in particular, provides

224
00:12:01.240 --> 00:12:03.559
<v Speaker 3>a great time for a burglar to go around. And

225
00:12:03.600 --> 00:12:06.519
<v Speaker 3>you do see all of those prime marks where it

226
00:12:06.519 --> 00:12:09.000
<v Speaker 3>looks like a screwdriver or something to us in multiple

227
00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:12.440
<v Speaker 3>locations to try to get in. And finally, this bizarre

228
00:12:12.519 --> 00:12:17.279
<v Speaker 3>basement area is where the person accesses the home and

229
00:12:17.519 --> 00:12:21.200
<v Speaker 3>leaves that way, and so it definitely could lead credence

230
00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:22.799
<v Speaker 3>to the fact that this was a robber. And when

231
00:12:22.840 --> 00:12:25.440
<v Speaker 3>they get into the home, they realize, oh my god,

232
00:12:25.519 --> 00:12:29.120
<v Speaker 3>there's an infant who can't recognize me, and this teenage

233
00:12:29.120 --> 00:12:31.919
<v Speaker 3>girl who's now terrified and has been looking at me.

234
00:12:32.039 --> 00:12:35.000
<v Speaker 3>I have to take her with me. So definitely a possibility.

235
00:12:35.039 --> 00:12:37.879
<v Speaker 3>Those prime marks everywhere make it much more prone that

236
00:12:37.919 --> 00:12:42.320
<v Speaker 3>it's a burglar than perhaps that's just opportunistic prowler who

237
00:12:42.360 --> 00:12:45.639
<v Speaker 3>sees her right that someone seems to have come prepared

238
00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:47.720
<v Speaker 3>with at least an instrument to try to break in.

239
00:12:49.639 --> 00:12:52.600
<v Speaker 1>I wish we knew where these windows were located, because

240
00:12:52.679 --> 00:12:55.200
<v Speaker 1>if these windows were located where say you could see

241
00:12:55.279 --> 00:12:57.759
<v Speaker 1>light coming from the front window, or that you would

242
00:12:57.759 --> 00:13:01.639
<v Speaker 1>somehow know that there was somebody home, or if these

243
00:13:01.679 --> 00:13:05.000
<v Speaker 1>windows were at the back of the home and there

244
00:13:05.080 --> 00:13:07.559
<v Speaker 1>was no view to be able to see that there

245
00:13:07.679 --> 00:13:09.399
<v Speaker 1>was clearly somebody who was there.

246
00:13:10.559 --> 00:13:13.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, it seems pretty clear how the abductor got inside

247
00:13:13.279 --> 00:13:15.559
<v Speaker 2>the house. What's not so clear is how they got

248
00:13:15.559 --> 00:13:19.120
<v Speaker 2>Evelyn out. Since Evelyn's school books were scattered throughout the

249
00:13:19.120 --> 00:13:21.399
<v Speaker 2>living room and her broken glasses and one of her

250
00:13:21.399 --> 00:13:24.559
<v Speaker 2>shoes were on the floor, a struggle definitely took place there,

251
00:13:25.159 --> 00:13:27.559
<v Speaker 2>and since Evelyn's other shoe was found in the basement,

252
00:13:27.879 --> 00:13:30.440
<v Speaker 2>it's reasonable to assume that the perpetrator took her down

253
00:13:30.519 --> 00:13:33.039
<v Speaker 2>there and dragged her out through the window, as this

254
00:13:33.159 --> 00:13:35.320
<v Speaker 2>is supported by the amount of blood which was found

255
00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.960
<v Speaker 2>in the backyard and the neighboring homes. However, it does

256
00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:41.759
<v Speaker 2>seem like it would be difficult to exit through a

257
00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:45.039
<v Speaker 2>basement window with a kidnapped girl in tow. We know

258
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.120
<v Speaker 2>that the front door and all the other entrances to

259
00:13:47.159 --> 00:13:49.759
<v Speaker 2>the house were locked, since the only way Richard Hartley

260
00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:52.279
<v Speaker 2>could get inside when he arrived was through the open

261
00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:55.960
<v Speaker 2>basement window. Some newspaper accounts have stated that the front

262
00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:58.960
<v Speaker 2>door of the rasp Museen residence was a self locking door,

263
00:13:59.360 --> 00:14:01.399
<v Speaker 2>which likely means you wouldn't have to use a key

264
00:14:01.519 --> 00:14:04.480
<v Speaker 2>and that would lock automatically whenever you stepped outside and

265
00:14:04.480 --> 00:14:08.480
<v Speaker 2>closed it. And that's the case, then theoretically the abductor

266
00:14:08.519 --> 00:14:10.759
<v Speaker 2>could have taken Evelyn out the front door and locked

267
00:14:10.799 --> 00:14:14.000
<v Speaker 2>it behind them without using a key. But looking at

268
00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.320
<v Speaker 2>the evidence, it would make sense for the perpetrator to

269
00:14:16.360 --> 00:14:19.200
<v Speaker 2>take Evelyn out through the basement window, as taking her

270
00:14:19.240 --> 00:14:21.639
<v Speaker 2>out through the front door might attract too much attention.

271
00:14:22.639 --> 00:14:25.320
<v Speaker 2>If the dog scent trail was accurate and the getaway

272
00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:28.559
<v Speaker 2>car was parked on Cooley Drive northeast from the ras

273
00:14:28.679 --> 00:14:31.559
<v Speaker 2>Musen residence, then would be quicker to escape out the

274
00:14:31.600 --> 00:14:34.480
<v Speaker 2>back and cut through the backyard past the neighbor's houses

275
00:14:34.519 --> 00:14:37.799
<v Speaker 2>towards the street. If they took Evelyn out the front door,

276
00:14:38.039 --> 00:14:41.120
<v Speaker 2>they'd have to travel north on Hostler Drive and turn

277
00:14:41.200 --> 00:14:44.080
<v Speaker 2>right on COOLi Drive to walk towards the car, which

278
00:14:44.120 --> 00:14:46.240
<v Speaker 2>is along a route and runs a bigger risk of

279
00:14:46.279 --> 00:14:49.279
<v Speaker 2>them being spotted by the neighbors. While there was a

280
00:14:49.279 --> 00:14:51.240
<v Speaker 2>lot of blood found in the backyard and on the

281
00:14:51.240 --> 00:14:55.519
<v Speaker 2>surrounding houses, no blood was found inside the rass Musen residence,

282
00:14:55.879 --> 00:14:58.399
<v Speaker 2>so it appears that Evelyn may have been violently attacked

283
00:14:58.480 --> 00:15:02.120
<v Speaker 2>after she went outside. One thing I've seen proposed is

284
00:15:02.120 --> 00:15:04.559
<v Speaker 2>that the screen to the basement window, which was found

285
00:15:04.600 --> 00:15:07.039
<v Speaker 2>resting up against the house, might have been used as

286
00:15:07.080 --> 00:15:09.200
<v Speaker 2>a weapon to strike Evelyn if she put up a

287
00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:12.480
<v Speaker 2>struggle and tried to run away. This probably would have

288
00:15:12.480 --> 00:15:14.519
<v Speaker 2>occurred at the spot next to the house where the

289
00:15:14.519 --> 00:15:17.000
<v Speaker 2>pool of blood was found. Since the second pool of

290
00:15:17.000 --> 00:15:20.039
<v Speaker 2>blood was next to a neighbor's garage, Evelyn likely fell

291
00:15:20.120 --> 00:15:22.559
<v Speaker 2>down or was forced down there while she was being

292
00:15:22.679 --> 00:15:24.039
<v Speaker 2>dragged towards Cooley Drive.

293
00:15:24.840 --> 00:15:28.080
<v Speaker 3>I think that's exactly what what occurred, right, is that

294
00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.840
<v Speaker 3>the idea she's you know, maybe not resisting them on

295
00:15:31.879 --> 00:15:34.240
<v Speaker 3>her way out of the house, and then as soon

296
00:15:34.279 --> 00:15:38.679
<v Speaker 3>as she gets out there's an attack because she maybe says,

297
00:15:38.679 --> 00:15:40.720
<v Speaker 3>I'm going to try to flee. This is my last moment.

298
00:15:41.120 --> 00:15:43.639
<v Speaker 3>You know, you don't go get in the car, you run,

299
00:15:44.120 --> 00:15:47.240
<v Speaker 3>You try to maybe fight him off. Maybe you try

300
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:50.200
<v Speaker 3>to scream because you're outside now the neighbors could hear you.

301
00:15:50.799 --> 00:15:53.399
<v Speaker 3>And yet if he had a weapon, even the screwdriver

302
00:15:53.600 --> 00:15:56.360
<v Speaker 3>or something, and stabbed her, hit her in the head

303
00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:59.320
<v Speaker 3>something to that extent, you would start to see not

304
00:15:59.360 --> 00:16:02.759
<v Speaker 3>only that blood evidence, but also the behavior that was

305
00:16:02.759 --> 00:16:05.480
<v Speaker 3>described by one witness, where it looked like a young

306
00:16:05.519 --> 00:16:10.000
<v Speaker 3>lady who was incapacitated or incoherent trying to get to

307
00:16:10.080 --> 00:16:13.480
<v Speaker 3>a car a street away. So to me, that's the

308
00:16:13.519 --> 00:16:16.480
<v Speaker 3>most likely scenario. I don't think necessarily she was harmed

309
00:16:16.519 --> 00:16:19.879
<v Speaker 3>inside the house other than a scuffle to get control

310
00:16:19.919 --> 00:16:22.720
<v Speaker 3>of her, which is what resulted in her shoes coming

311
00:16:22.720 --> 00:16:26.320
<v Speaker 3>off and the broken glasses. But I think that injury

312
00:16:26.360 --> 00:16:30.360
<v Speaker 3>with a weapon or even a physical assault that resulted

313
00:16:30.360 --> 00:16:34.320
<v Speaker 3>in those pools of blood, that's where the crime change from.

314
00:16:34.399 --> 00:16:36.440
<v Speaker 3>It can no longer just be an abduction, but now

315
00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:38.480
<v Speaker 3>we actually have to take her and maybe do something

316
00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:39.080
<v Speaker 3>with her body.

317
00:16:40.759 --> 00:16:43.840
<v Speaker 1>I have a question for you, So, first part, you

318
00:16:43.919 --> 00:16:47.879
<v Speaker 1>both believe that the motivation for the abduction of Evelyn

319
00:16:48.039 --> 00:16:51.879
<v Speaker 1>was a sexually based motivation. And then secondly, if that

320
00:16:52.159 --> 00:16:56.120
<v Speaker 1>is true, then how likely would it be that somebody

321
00:16:56.120 --> 00:16:59.559
<v Speaker 1>would use a sharp force type of implement or weapon

322
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:02.720
<v Speaker 1>to hurt Evelyn if they wanted to preserve the body

323
00:17:02.759 --> 00:17:05.079
<v Speaker 1>for whatever they wanted to do, like they likely then

324
00:17:05.079 --> 00:17:08.200
<v Speaker 1>wouldn't want to kill her, So it seems odd that

325
00:17:08.240 --> 00:17:11.039
<v Speaker 1>they would violently attack her with something that would cause

326
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:15.279
<v Speaker 1>her to like pools of blood. So is this somebody

327
00:17:15.279 --> 00:17:18.920
<v Speaker 1>that's just very strong and is dragging her along after

328
00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:23.480
<v Speaker 1>the fact too, or is this two people like witnessed

329
00:17:23.559 --> 00:17:25.759
<v Speaker 1>Haffer or mister X had said.

330
00:17:26.599 --> 00:17:28.599
<v Speaker 2>It definitely makes sense if it's two people. For me,

331
00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:31.480
<v Speaker 2>and I still wonder if like one person was standing

332
00:17:31.480 --> 00:17:34.279
<v Speaker 2>as a lookout by the basement window while someone else

333
00:17:34.599 --> 00:17:38.240
<v Speaker 2>went inside and abducted Evelyn and the other person helped

334
00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:41.599
<v Speaker 2>drag her outside. I mean, it does seem like it

335
00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:44.759
<v Speaker 2>is sexually motivated that if they wanted to, they could

336
00:17:44.799 --> 00:17:47.440
<v Speaker 2>have just sexually assaulted her at the house and killed

337
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:50.640
<v Speaker 2>her there. But they probably figured, well, there's a eye

338
00:17:50.680 --> 00:17:53.640
<v Speaker 2>open window there, we can be seen, there's no privacy here,

339
00:17:53.720 --> 00:17:55.680
<v Speaker 2>and we want to get rid of her body, so

340
00:17:55.720 --> 00:17:57.839
<v Speaker 2>they decided that we're going to have to take her

341
00:17:57.880 --> 00:18:00.759
<v Speaker 2>elsewhere in order to assault her by it. Like, you're right,

342
00:18:00.759 --> 00:18:02.319
<v Speaker 2>I don't think they would want to damage her too

343
00:18:02.400 --> 00:18:04.359
<v Speaker 2>much if they wanted to do that. So I'm thinking

344
00:18:04.359 --> 00:18:06.440
<v Speaker 2>that if they did something to her that caused her

345
00:18:06.480 --> 00:18:09.079
<v Speaker 2>to bleed, it might have been like a defensive thing

346
00:18:09.079 --> 00:18:11.160
<v Speaker 2>where Evelyn put up a fight and they did that

347
00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:12.880
<v Speaker 2>to restrain her.

348
00:18:13.839 --> 00:18:17.240
<v Speaker 1>Of course, It's been theorized that at least two perpetrators

349
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:20.640
<v Speaker 1>may have been responsible for Evelyn's abduction, and there seems

350
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:24.200
<v Speaker 1>to be evidence both for and against this theory. On

351
00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:27.319
<v Speaker 1>one hand, there was only one set of male footprints

352
00:18:27.359 --> 00:18:30.519
<v Speaker 1>found both inside and outside the house. But on the

353
00:18:30.559 --> 00:18:33.720
<v Speaker 1>other hand, there's the eyewitness count that I just mentioned

354
00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:36.519
<v Speaker 1>from Ed Hoffer, who claimed that he saw two men

355
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.880
<v Speaker 1>and a girl staggering down Coolly Drive that night, around

356
00:18:39.960 --> 00:18:43.279
<v Speaker 1>the approximate time period Evelyn is believed to have been abducted.

357
00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:46.920
<v Speaker 1>Haffer was also nearly hit by a speeding car which

358
00:18:47.079 --> 00:18:50.359
<v Speaker 1>likely contained these same three people, which seems to indicate

359
00:18:50.400 --> 00:18:53.319
<v Speaker 1>that they were trying to leave the area in a hurry. Well,

360
00:18:53.359 --> 00:18:55.440
<v Speaker 1>Hoffer didn't get a good enough look at the girl

361
00:18:55.480 --> 00:18:59.000
<v Speaker 1>to positively identify her as Evelyn. The timing and the

362
00:18:59.000 --> 00:19:02.720
<v Speaker 1>circumstances of the whole thing lends credence to the idea

363
00:19:02.799 --> 00:19:05.680
<v Speaker 1>that the unknowingly saw Evelyn while she was in the

364
00:19:05.720 --> 00:19:09.440
<v Speaker 1>process of being abducted by two perpetrators. Well, there doesn't

365
00:19:09.480 --> 00:19:12.240
<v Speaker 1>seem to be any physical evidence placing more than one

366
00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:16.000
<v Speaker 1>intruder at the Rasmusen home. It's possible that only one

367
00:19:16.000 --> 00:19:18.799
<v Speaker 1>of them actually went inside well. The other one remained

368
00:19:18.839 --> 00:19:22.359
<v Speaker 1>outside in the backyard as a lookout. This might explain

369
00:19:22.480 --> 00:19:25.640
<v Speaker 1>how Evelyn was forcibly removed from the house through the

370
00:19:25.640 --> 00:19:28.759
<v Speaker 1>basement window, as the second abductor may have been waiting

371
00:19:28.759 --> 00:19:32.000
<v Speaker 1>there to help his partner drag her outside. It sounds

372
00:19:32.039 --> 00:19:34.599
<v Speaker 1>like the dirty footprints found in the living room were

373
00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.759
<v Speaker 1>the results of the intruders stepping in the outside flower beds.

374
00:19:38.200 --> 00:19:40.720
<v Speaker 1>But if his accomplice never stepped in the dirt, that

375
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:43.319
<v Speaker 1>would explain why he never left any footprints behind.

376
00:19:44.079 --> 00:19:44.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

377
00:19:44.440 --> 00:19:47.240
<v Speaker 3>Absolutely, I think that when you look at this idea

378
00:19:47.319 --> 00:19:51.599
<v Speaker 3>that she was fortunately taken out, it does help with

379
00:19:51.680 --> 00:19:53.960
<v Speaker 3>the idea of being able to get her moved and

380
00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:58.960
<v Speaker 3>moved without anyone noticing her, being able to incapacitate her

381
00:19:59.000 --> 00:20:02.640
<v Speaker 3>to a point where you wouldn't necessarily hear her scream.

382
00:20:02.920 --> 00:20:04.640
<v Speaker 3>Someone could have been covering in her mouth while the

383
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:06.799
<v Speaker 3>other one's moving her. You know, there's just a lot

384
00:20:06.799 --> 00:20:12.279
<v Speaker 3>of different moving parts where if that witness actually saw

385
00:20:12.519 --> 00:20:17.000
<v Speaker 3>her being taken a pretty far distance for an abduction,

386
00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:20.480
<v Speaker 3>then it would be very hard to keep her quiet

387
00:20:20.519 --> 00:20:23.839
<v Speaker 3>that long. If she was walking, she wasn't incapacitated at a

388
00:20:23.839 --> 00:20:27.039
<v Speaker 3>point where she couldn't scream. So having two people there,

389
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:29.359
<v Speaker 3>and especially that report where there's a man in the

390
00:20:29.359 --> 00:20:31.960
<v Speaker 3>front seat and a man in the backseat with this girl,

391
00:20:33.400 --> 00:20:36.599
<v Speaker 3>it indicates that two people would have allowed for just

392
00:20:36.960 --> 00:20:40.440
<v Speaker 3>an easier apprehension. Now, what makes it crazy, though, is

393
00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:44.559
<v Speaker 3>that oftentimes, when there are two people who are involved

394
00:20:44.599 --> 00:20:47.240
<v Speaker 3>in a crime, for both of them to take that

395
00:20:47.319 --> 00:20:50.440
<v Speaker 3>to their grave is pretty wild.

396
00:20:51.160 --> 00:20:53.240
<v Speaker 2>Well, as we're going to discuss further, it's possible that

397
00:20:53.400 --> 00:20:55.279
<v Speaker 2>one of them bragged about it in a bar to

398
00:20:55.319 --> 00:20:57.400
<v Speaker 2>a guy with a tape recorders, so that may not

399
00:20:57.480 --> 00:21:01.720
<v Speaker 2>be true that eventually one of them did talk anyway.

400
00:21:01.759 --> 00:21:03.880
<v Speaker 2>The other major clues in this case were the blood

401
00:21:03.920 --> 00:21:07.200
<v Speaker 2>stained undergarments in Brazil are found outside of town, which

402
00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:09.759
<v Speaker 2>were believed to belong to Evelyn, along with a pair

403
00:21:09.799 --> 00:21:12.200
<v Speaker 2>of pants, a denim jacket, and a pair of tennis

404
00:21:12.200 --> 00:21:14.720
<v Speaker 2>shoes that were all staying with blood. It was never

405
00:21:14.759 --> 00:21:17.440
<v Speaker 2>conclusively established if the pants were connected to the case,

406
00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:20.640
<v Speaker 2>but it seems very likely that the shoes and jacket

407
00:21:20.680 --> 00:21:23.440
<v Speaker 2>were worn by the perpetrator since they matched the physical

408
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.799
<v Speaker 2>evidence found at the abduction scene. At the time, he

409
00:21:26.920 --> 00:21:28.960
<v Speaker 2>was believed that the jacket was too small to be

410
00:21:29.000 --> 00:21:32.079
<v Speaker 2>worn by someone who wore size eleven shoes. But this

411
00:21:32.200 --> 00:21:35.519
<v Speaker 2>discrepancy could be explained away if two perpetrators were involved

412
00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:37.559
<v Speaker 2>in the crime, as one of them could have been

413
00:21:37.559 --> 00:21:40.599
<v Speaker 2>wearing the jacket while the other wore the shoes. It's

414
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:43.279
<v Speaker 2>actually quite fascinating to go back and read about the

415
00:21:43.319 --> 00:21:46.519
<v Speaker 2>forensic testing and analysis which were performed on these items

416
00:21:46.519 --> 00:21:49.640
<v Speaker 2>of clothing in nineteen fifty three, as we were still

417
00:21:49.680 --> 00:21:53.960
<v Speaker 2>many decades away from DNA profiling. Instead, they had to

418
00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.480
<v Speaker 2>look at the physical evidence and make educated guesses, such

419
00:21:57.480 --> 00:22:00.319
<v Speaker 2>as the perpetrator being a steeple jack or dryving a

420
00:22:00.319 --> 00:22:02.920
<v Speaker 2>Weezer motorcycle. But I don't know if any of these

421
00:22:03.000 --> 00:22:06.119
<v Speaker 2>hunches were correct since they never turned up any promising leads.

422
00:22:06.960 --> 00:22:08.799
<v Speaker 2>They also seem to think that a hair found in

423
00:22:08.839 --> 00:22:11.480
<v Speaker 2>one of the shoes belonged to an African American male,

424
00:22:11.880 --> 00:22:13.880
<v Speaker 2>but I'm not sure if they were able to conclusively

425
00:22:13.960 --> 00:22:17.039
<v Speaker 2>prove that. If this crime had taken place today and

426
00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:20.279
<v Speaker 2>investigators found bloody clothing which belonged to both the victim

427
00:22:20.359 --> 00:22:22.920
<v Speaker 2>and the perpetrator, they might have been able to solve

428
00:22:22.960 --> 00:22:26.400
<v Speaker 2>the case relatively quickly. It's frustrating to hear that the

429
00:22:26.519 --> 00:22:29.920
<v Speaker 2>jacket and shoes were apparently lost by police over the years,

430
00:22:30.240 --> 00:22:33.480
<v Speaker 2>because if DNA testing was performed on the evidence, perhaps

431
00:22:33.519 --> 00:22:34.720
<v Speaker 2>they might have turned up something.

432
00:22:36.079 --> 00:22:38.359
<v Speaker 3>What's really hard is that some of the evidence too

433
00:22:38.359 --> 00:22:42.000
<v Speaker 3>went missing right where you have these the bloody clothing,

434
00:22:42.200 --> 00:22:45.079
<v Speaker 3>and you even had someone come forward and see a

435
00:22:45.119 --> 00:22:49.759
<v Speaker 3>news story and say, hey, listen, we recognize those pieces.

436
00:22:50.240 --> 00:22:52.720
<v Speaker 3>I might know who they belonged to, and then they

437
00:22:52.759 --> 00:22:57.039
<v Speaker 3>weren't able to find them. It's really really frustrating, like

438
00:22:57.079 --> 00:23:00.640
<v Speaker 3>you said, because advancements weren't there in the fifty they

439
00:23:00.640 --> 00:23:02.559
<v Speaker 3>were starting to be there in the eighties when this

440
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:05.920
<v Speaker 3>case was being geared back up and there was more

441
00:23:05.960 --> 00:23:07.720
<v Speaker 3>media attention on the anniversary for it.

442
00:23:07.880 --> 00:23:08.720
<v Speaker 2>And then about.

443
00:23:08.440 --> 00:23:11.160
<v Speaker 3>Fifty years later you start to get even more attention

444
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:14.559
<v Speaker 3>back on it, where the science has caught up, but

445
00:23:14.680 --> 00:23:18.079
<v Speaker 3>the evidence just isn't there to run it against. So

446
00:23:18.599 --> 00:23:21.480
<v Speaker 3>it's like that race where time is on your side

447
00:23:21.519 --> 00:23:24.119
<v Speaker 3>in some ways, but then you find out all that

448
00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:28.240
<v Speaker 3>hard work that the investigators did, somehow that evidence got misplaced.

449
00:23:29.079 --> 00:23:31.079
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I think that if this crime happened today, I

450
00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:34.200
<v Speaker 2>don't think that the perpetrator would toss clothing with their

451
00:23:34.200 --> 00:23:36.640
<v Speaker 2>blood on its out into remote area. They would probably

452
00:23:36.680 --> 00:23:38.640
<v Speaker 2>think if someone tests this, they're going to lead it

453
00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:40.839
<v Speaker 2>back to me, so they would probably go to all

454
00:23:40.880 --> 00:23:42.759
<v Speaker 2>extent to bury it or get rid of it so

455
00:23:42.799 --> 00:23:43.839
<v Speaker 2>that it was never found.

456
00:23:45.039 --> 00:23:48.440
<v Speaker 1>So now let's look at possible suspects. A lot of

457
00:23:48.519 --> 00:23:51.240
<v Speaker 1>them have popped up on the radar these past several decades,

458
00:23:51.799 --> 00:23:53.759
<v Speaker 1>but most of them have been ruled out, and there

459
00:23:53.759 --> 00:23:57.799
<v Speaker 1>really isn't strong evidence pointing to anyone in particular. Let's

460
00:23:57.799 --> 00:24:00.000
<v Speaker 1>start with that Geen, as he's one of the most

461
00:24:00.119 --> 00:24:03.519
<v Speaker 1>notorious murderers of all time and the one suspect who

462
00:24:03.519 --> 00:24:06.960
<v Speaker 1>is most associated with this case. But quite frankly, I

463
00:24:07.000 --> 00:24:10.480
<v Speaker 1>think his significance here is way overstated, as he was

464
00:24:10.519 --> 00:24:13.799
<v Speaker 1>cleared as the suspect almost immediately. Yes, it seems that

465
00:24:13.839 --> 00:24:16.680
<v Speaker 1>they came to that conclusion because Gean passed two LAE

466
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:19.720
<v Speaker 1>detector tests, and these tests obviously do not have the

467
00:24:19.720 --> 00:24:23.440
<v Speaker 1>same way today as they did in nineteen fifty seven. However,

468
00:24:23.519 --> 00:24:26.400
<v Speaker 1>other than the fact that Gean was originally born in Lacrosse,

469
00:24:26.960 --> 00:24:29.400
<v Speaker 1>what connection does he have to Evelyn's case at all?

470
00:24:30.200 --> 00:24:32.640
<v Speaker 1>I know that many accounts state that Gean was visiting

471
00:24:32.680 --> 00:24:35.640
<v Speaker 1>relatives in Lacrosse at the time Evelyn went missing, but

472
00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:38.519
<v Speaker 1>I have my doubts that this is accurate. Like we

473
00:24:38.599 --> 00:24:41.480
<v Speaker 1>mentioned in Part one, a lot of the original newspaper

474
00:24:41.519 --> 00:24:44.880
<v Speaker 1>accounts state that when Geen was questioned, he claimed that

475
00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:46.839
<v Speaker 1>he had not been to Lacrosse since he was seven

476
00:24:46.920 --> 00:24:50.559
<v Speaker 1>years old. Well, Gean did still have relatives living in

477
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:54.240
<v Speaker 1>Lacrosse in nineteen fifty three. I haven't seen any confirmation

478
00:24:54.400 --> 00:24:56.839
<v Speaker 1>that he went to visit them at that time, but

479
00:24:56.960 --> 00:24:59.759
<v Speaker 1>even if he did, Evelyn's abduction just does not fit

480
00:25:00.279 --> 00:25:04.240
<v Speaker 1>'s at all. His two known murder victims, Mary Hogan

481
00:25:04.359 --> 00:25:07.599
<v Speaker 1>and Bernice Warden, were women in their fifties who lived

482
00:25:07.599 --> 00:25:10.960
<v Speaker 1>in the Plainfield area, and he was personally acquainted with them.

483
00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:14.480
<v Speaker 1>It's believed that Geane killed them because they reminded him

484
00:25:14.519 --> 00:25:17.000
<v Speaker 1>of his deceased mother, whom he had an obsession with.

485
00:25:17.839 --> 00:25:20.880
<v Speaker 1>Performing a home invasion in another town over one hundred

486
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:24.000
<v Speaker 1>miles away in order to abduct a random teenage girl

487
00:25:24.440 --> 00:25:27.400
<v Speaker 1>does not sound like something that Gean would do. And

488
00:25:27.559 --> 00:25:30.440
<v Speaker 1>if the sighting from ed Hoffer was accurate and two

489
00:25:30.480 --> 00:25:33.720
<v Speaker 1>men abducted Evelyn, it seems really out of character for

490
00:25:33.759 --> 00:25:36.960
<v Speaker 1>a known loner like Gean to be working with an accomplice.

491
00:25:37.599 --> 00:25:40.319
<v Speaker 1>It was also established that none of the human remains

492
00:25:40.359 --> 00:25:44.799
<v Speaker 1>found on Gean's farm belonged to Evelyn. Yes, theoretically he

493
00:25:44.839 --> 00:25:48.559
<v Speaker 1>could have disposed of her body somewhere between Lacrosse and Plainfield,

494
00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:51.960
<v Speaker 1>But think about it. Would a guy who performs grave

495
00:25:52.119 --> 00:25:55.559
<v Speaker 1>robbing and decorates his house with human remains really go

496
00:25:55.640 --> 00:25:58.720
<v Speaker 1>to the trouble of disposing of a victim's body. Since

497
00:25:58.759 --> 00:26:01.839
<v Speaker 1>Gean was arrested only four years after Evelyn went missing,

498
00:26:02.440 --> 00:26:04.559
<v Speaker 1>I can see how it would be tempting to think

499
00:26:04.559 --> 00:26:07.119
<v Speaker 1>there's a connection, But I really don't think that he

500
00:26:07.160 --> 00:26:07.960
<v Speaker 1>was responsible.

501
00:26:07.960 --> 00:26:10.359
<v Speaker 3>I don't think that he was responsible either. Really, what

502
00:26:10.400 --> 00:26:14.440
<v Speaker 3>we know about Geen is that he loved to honor

503
00:26:14.559 --> 00:26:17.359
<v Speaker 3>his victims in his sick way. He wanted parts of

504
00:26:17.359 --> 00:26:20.079
<v Speaker 3>their body, He wanted to make things out of them.

505
00:26:20.319 --> 00:26:22.400
<v Speaker 3>He even went to the extent of not only he

506
00:26:22.480 --> 00:26:25.200
<v Speaker 3>only killed two people they were aware of, but he

507
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:28.079
<v Speaker 3>would dig up human remains. He was so desperate for

508
00:26:28.240 --> 00:26:32.559
<v Speaker 3>the materials to make bowls and lampshades and whatever else

509
00:26:32.599 --> 00:26:35.039
<v Speaker 3>he made. Right, it was all on display at his home.

510
00:26:35.720 --> 00:26:39.200
<v Speaker 3>Why would he then apprehend someone who does not fit

511
00:26:39.240 --> 00:26:43.480
<v Speaker 3>his victimology? And then not keep her body for his

512
00:26:43.559 --> 00:26:46.759
<v Speaker 3>sick purposes. It seems like the whole goal of his

513
00:26:46.920 --> 00:26:49.640
<v Speaker 3>was to keep his victims with him or to find

514
00:26:49.680 --> 00:26:54.480
<v Speaker 3>a connection with deceased individuals. So it doesn't fit the

515
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:56.839
<v Speaker 3>description of what happened to Evelyn here and there was

516
00:26:56.880 --> 00:26:58.839
<v Speaker 3>no sign of her at his home.

517
00:27:00.160 --> 00:27:03.920
<v Speaker 1>That ed Gean is an inter sexually based crimes and

518
00:27:03.960 --> 00:27:06.200
<v Speaker 1>we know that he's like a goal directed killer. He

519
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:08.880
<v Speaker 1>doesn't kill for the murder itself. He kills for the

520
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:13.000
<v Speaker 1>product that that murder provides, whereas whatever happened to Evelyn

521
00:27:13.400 --> 00:27:17.680
<v Speaker 1>likely was not for the product it provides after she's deceased.

522
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:21.799
<v Speaker 2>And on a side note, this is just an amusing coincidence,

523
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:23.640
<v Speaker 2>but on the day we're recording this, it was just

524
00:27:23.680 --> 00:27:28.119
<v Speaker 2>announced that the Netflix series Monster is going to devote

525
00:27:28.160 --> 00:27:30.960
<v Speaker 2>season three to the ed Geen story, and he's going

526
00:27:31.000 --> 00:27:33.279
<v Speaker 2>to be played by Charlie Hunham from Sons of Anarchy,

527
00:27:33.319 --> 00:27:36.079
<v Speaker 2>who seems like an unlikely casting choice to say the least.

528
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:39.640
<v Speaker 1>I love him and I always hear that he's a

529
00:27:39.640 --> 00:27:40.440
<v Speaker 1>really nice guy.

530
00:27:40.599 --> 00:27:42.559
<v Speaker 2>He is, yeah, from what I heard, so I can't

531
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:44.359
<v Speaker 2>picture him as ed Gean, but I'm anxious to see

532
00:27:44.440 --> 00:27:44.759
<v Speaker 2>this no.

533
00:27:44.880 --> 00:27:48.039
<v Speaker 3>I'm trying. Yeah, I'm trying to picture him as ed Gean,

534
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:50.319
<v Speaker 3>but I'm in I'll watch it.

535
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:54.119
<v Speaker 2>Another potential suspect who popped up on the radar many

536
00:27:54.160 --> 00:27:56.720
<v Speaker 2>years after the fact was a local farmer who was

537
00:27:56.759 --> 00:28:00.480
<v Speaker 2>implicated when two anonymous witnesses came forward after the airing

538
00:28:00.519 --> 00:28:04.559
<v Speaker 2>of the Evelyn Hartley Story documentary in nineteen eighty nine.

539
00:28:04.680 --> 00:28:07.160
<v Speaker 2>As you recall, this farmer often liked to wear a

540
00:28:07.160 --> 00:28:10.000
<v Speaker 2>blue denim jacket and tennis shoes and drove a dark

541
00:28:10.039 --> 00:28:13.039
<v Speaker 2>colored Chevrolet. But after he went into the Lacrosse on

542
00:28:13.079 --> 00:28:16.359
<v Speaker 2>the evening of October twenty fourth, nineteen fifty three, the

543
00:28:16.400 --> 00:28:19.079
<v Speaker 2>witnesses never saw him wearing those items or driving that

544
00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:23.000
<v Speaker 2>car again. But of course, the obvious question is why

545
00:28:23.039 --> 00:28:26.039
<v Speaker 2>did it take them so long to come forward. Well,

546
00:28:26.119 --> 00:28:28.599
<v Speaker 2>they claimed that they did go to the Lacrosse County

547
00:28:28.599 --> 00:28:32.319
<v Speaker 2>District Attorney's office with his information in nineteen seventy three,

548
00:28:32.720 --> 00:28:35.799
<v Speaker 2>but the authorities were not interested in pursuing it. The

549
00:28:35.799 --> 00:28:38.319
<v Speaker 2>way the farmer allegedly said he was going into town

550
00:28:38.359 --> 00:28:41.640
<v Speaker 2>to quote unquote find a woman lends credence to the

551
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:44.480
<v Speaker 2>idea that he may have been an opportunistic predator who

552
00:28:44.559 --> 00:28:47.440
<v Speaker 2>happened to pass by the window of the Rasmusen residence

553
00:28:47.720 --> 00:28:50.799
<v Speaker 2>and noticed that Evelyn was home alone. The part of

554
00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:54.279
<v Speaker 2>this story which doesn't match up is him driving a Chevrolet,

555
00:28:54.599 --> 00:28:57.039
<v Speaker 2>as the vehicle ed Hoffer saw in the neighborhood that

556
00:28:57.119 --> 00:28:59.640
<v Speaker 2>night with the two men, and the girl was described

557
00:28:59.640 --> 00:29:04.200
<v Speaker 2>as a buick. Anyway, after these witnesses came forward, Steve

558
00:29:04.279 --> 00:29:07.599
<v Speaker 2>Botham filmed the follow up news segment containing this new information,

559
00:29:08.039 --> 00:29:11.039
<v Speaker 2>and it's available for viewing on YouTube alongside the Evelyn

560
00:29:11.119 --> 00:29:14.519
<v Speaker 2>Hartley Story documentary. But this is the only source I

561
00:29:14.519 --> 00:29:17.519
<v Speaker 2>could find out there which mentions the lead involving the farmer.

562
00:29:18.119 --> 00:29:20.359
<v Speaker 2>Given that the alleged suspect had been dead for ten

563
00:29:20.440 --> 00:29:23.119
<v Speaker 2>years by that point, I can only assume this lead

564
00:29:23.200 --> 00:29:24.079
<v Speaker 2>never went anywhere.

565
00:29:25.599 --> 00:29:27.960
<v Speaker 3>Well, we did talk about the idea that this could

566
00:29:28.000 --> 00:29:31.839
<v Speaker 3>have been an opportunistic predator or offender, and so if

567
00:29:31.880 --> 00:29:34.440
<v Speaker 3>you go by what this man says, the farmer says,

568
00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:37.839
<v Speaker 3>I'm off to find a woman, then he would fit

569
00:29:37.920 --> 00:29:42.000
<v Speaker 3>that description of an opportunistic predator. Again, though he would

570
00:29:42.039 --> 00:29:46.160
<v Speaker 3>have had to have been present in that area and

571
00:29:46.359 --> 00:29:49.799
<v Speaker 3>seen that it was just this teenage girl and assumed

572
00:29:49.839 --> 00:29:53.039
<v Speaker 3>that nobody else was there, which to me, the only

573
00:29:53.079 --> 00:29:56.160
<v Speaker 3>way you would know that in the evening is that

574
00:29:56.240 --> 00:29:59.200
<v Speaker 3>you saw the adults in that scenario leave the home

575
00:29:59.480 --> 00:30:02.119
<v Speaker 3>and had towards the homecoming game. Do we know what

576
00:30:02.200 --> 00:30:03.400
<v Speaker 3>time did they leave the house?

577
00:30:05.559 --> 00:30:08.759
<v Speaker 2>Shortly before seven? Because I think that's when Evelyn last

578
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:10.799
<v Speaker 2>spoke to her parents on the phone, and I think

579
00:30:10.839 --> 00:30:12.119
<v Speaker 2>they left a short time before that.

580
00:30:12.559 --> 00:30:14.920
<v Speaker 3>Okay, So then that does that does allow for someone

581
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:17.640
<v Speaker 3>to be sitting there and watch the parents leave and

582
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:21.000
<v Speaker 3>then see this young teenage girl there, because otherwise, when

583
00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:24.720
<v Speaker 3>the lights are on and you know it's it's the evening,

584
00:30:24.799 --> 00:30:27.200
<v Speaker 3>you would assume that even if you saw a teenage

585
00:30:27.240 --> 00:30:29.440
<v Speaker 3>girl walk by the window, that her parents would probably

586
00:30:29.480 --> 00:30:32.519
<v Speaker 3>be home as well. But it is possible that someone

587
00:30:33.119 --> 00:30:36.920
<v Speaker 3>was simply looking for a woman to attack and he

588
00:30:37.079 --> 00:30:39.559
<v Speaker 3>found the right home where there was a young teenage

589
00:30:39.599 --> 00:30:44.079
<v Speaker 3>girl babysitting. It is interesting that the car doesn't match

590
00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:47.640
<v Speaker 3>up to the vehicle that mister X or mister Hoffer

591
00:30:47.799 --> 00:30:51.039
<v Speaker 3>saw that night that there were two men getting into

592
00:30:51.039 --> 00:30:55.839
<v Speaker 3>a green buick with a girl who seems to be incapacitated,

593
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:58.799
<v Speaker 3>which would match a young lady who had just been attacked.

594
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:02.519
<v Speaker 3>But yeah, this one's one of those. It's very elusive,

595
00:31:02.559 --> 00:31:06.359
<v Speaker 3>it's a very creepy comment made. But to what extent

596
00:31:06.400 --> 00:31:09.920
<v Speaker 3>does that translate to a missing person and now possible murder.

597
00:31:11.279 --> 00:31:13.440
<v Speaker 1>Don't you both feel like there would be some other

598
00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:16.640
<v Speaker 1>information out there about this farmer being a creep like

599
00:31:16.920 --> 00:31:19.839
<v Speaker 1>one doesn't typically just commit one crime in their lifetime

600
00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:22.920
<v Speaker 1>and they start by getting their feet wet by abducting

601
00:31:23.000 --> 00:31:26.720
<v Speaker 1>and murdering a young girl. They would typically start somewhere else,

602
00:31:26.759 --> 00:31:28.799
<v Speaker 1>whether it be like being a peeping tom and like

603
00:31:28.880 --> 00:31:33.240
<v Speaker 1>slowly escalate over time, And most killers don't just kill

604
00:31:33.240 --> 00:31:35.799
<v Speaker 1>one time and then that's it. So I feel like

605
00:31:36.599 --> 00:31:41.119
<v Speaker 1>I wish we knew more about this individual and if

606
00:31:41.160 --> 00:31:43.640
<v Speaker 1>he had been known as being like this local creep,

607
00:31:43.680 --> 00:31:45.960
<v Speaker 1>if he harassed any women, Do we know any of

608
00:31:46.000 --> 00:31:47.240
<v Speaker 1>that information, Robin.

609
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:50.440
<v Speaker 2>We don't, unfortunately, because they don't release any information about them.

610
00:31:50.480 --> 00:31:53.119
<v Speaker 2>All we know is from what these two witnesses said

611
00:31:53.119 --> 00:31:56.240
<v Speaker 2>when they came forward. But this was decades after the fact.

612
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:58.599
<v Speaker 2>But the police did such a thorough job that I'd

613
00:31:58.640 --> 00:32:00.720
<v Speaker 2>like to think that if there were any farm area

614
00:32:00.759 --> 00:32:04.119
<v Speaker 2>who had a history of creepy behavior and acting lecturist

615
00:32:04.119 --> 00:32:07.000
<v Speaker 2>towards women or young girls that he would have been

616
00:32:07.039 --> 00:32:10.880
<v Speaker 2>investigated at the time, but I see no indication that

617
00:32:11.039 --> 00:32:13.599
<v Speaker 2>this person had been on the radar as a suspect before.

618
00:32:16.359 --> 00:32:19.720
<v Speaker 1>So that brings us to our most intriguing lead, which

619
00:32:19.799 --> 00:32:23.000
<v Speaker 1>is the tape recording of an alleged confession to Evelyn's murder,

620
00:32:23.279 --> 00:32:26.119
<v Speaker 1>which surfaced in two thousand and three. It featured a

621
00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:29.200
<v Speaker 1>conversation in which a man named Clyde t Wee Peterson

622
00:32:29.599 --> 00:32:33.319
<v Speaker 1>claimed that he teamed up with an accomplice named Jack Golfier, Yeah,

623
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:36.519
<v Speaker 1>named Jack Golfair and a mutual friend of theirs to

624
00:32:36.599 --> 00:32:39.799
<v Speaker 1>abduct Evelyn and took her to a mutual friend's farm,

625
00:32:39.839 --> 00:32:43.519
<v Speaker 1>where Golfair proceeded to murder her and bury her body. Now,

626
00:32:43.559 --> 00:32:46.480
<v Speaker 1>since the recording was made in nineteen sixty eight, and

627
00:32:46.519 --> 00:32:49.880
<v Speaker 1>it's another example of a witness and not coming forward

628
00:32:49.880 --> 00:32:53.039
<v Speaker 1>with key information about an unsolved cold case for decades,

629
00:32:53.400 --> 00:32:57.319
<v Speaker 1>I can understand the skepticism. It's very strange how the

630
00:32:57.400 --> 00:33:00.640
<v Speaker 1>tavern owner Mel Williams just forgot about the recording and

631
00:33:00.680 --> 00:33:04.079
<v Speaker 1>put it away somewhere, even though it practically contained a

632
00:33:04.119 --> 00:33:07.359
<v Speaker 1>confession to the murder of a teenage girl. I mean,

633
00:33:07.400 --> 00:33:09.759
<v Speaker 1>he had the whole thing on tape, so it's not

634
00:33:09.799 --> 00:33:11.960
<v Speaker 1>like Williams would have to worry about the police not

635
00:33:12.039 --> 00:33:15.279
<v Speaker 1>believing his story. But since Peterson and the other man

636
00:33:15.359 --> 00:33:18.839
<v Speaker 1>involved in the conversation, Whitey Barclay, sounded like they were

637
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:23.240
<v Speaker 1>rough characters, perhaps Williams feared that there would be repercussions

638
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:26.640
<v Speaker 1>if he went to the authorities. Regardless, things might have

639
00:33:26.720 --> 00:33:29.200
<v Speaker 1>turned out much differently in this case if they'd been

640
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:32.759
<v Speaker 1>able to question Peterson while he was still alive. I

641
00:33:32.799 --> 00:33:35.279
<v Speaker 1>know the criminals often get caught because they can't keep

642
00:33:35.279 --> 00:33:38.000
<v Speaker 1>their mouth shut and brag about their crimes, but if

643
00:33:38.039 --> 00:33:41.000
<v Speaker 1>Peterson was telling the truth, it's crazy that he would

644
00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:43.759
<v Speaker 1>confess to such a heinous crime when he knew that

645
00:33:43.799 --> 00:33:47.359
<v Speaker 1>he was being recorded. Hell Williams claimed that Peterson told

646
00:33:47.440 --> 00:33:49.799
<v Speaker 1>him to stop the tape, yet he could not remember

647
00:33:49.799 --> 00:33:52.640
<v Speaker 1>what happened next. Why wouldn't Peterson have forced him to

648
00:33:52.680 --> 00:33:56.599
<v Speaker 1>hand over the tape. Whitey Barclay, the man who initiated

649
00:33:56.640 --> 00:33:59.640
<v Speaker 1>this conversation, was described as being a quote big mouth,

650
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:02.640
<v Speaker 1>though it didn't sound like he was implicated as having

651
00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:06.440
<v Speaker 1>participated in Evelyn's abduction. I guess the wild card in

652
00:34:06.480 --> 00:34:09.199
<v Speaker 1>this whole situation is the mutual friend of Peterson and

653
00:34:09.280 --> 00:34:13.159
<v Speaker 1>Jack Golfair, as he's never been publicly named, and it

654
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:16.480
<v Speaker 1>was his farm where Evelyn was allegedly taken, taken to

655
00:34:16.639 --> 00:34:20.559
<v Speaker 1>and murdered. If there were three people involved in Evelyn's abduction,

656
00:34:21.119 --> 00:34:24.760
<v Speaker 1>then this complicates things since ed Hoffer only witnessed two

657
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:27.679
<v Speaker 1>men dragging the girl down the street and driving away

658
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:30.239
<v Speaker 1>from the scene that night. And there's also the fact

659
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:33.440
<v Speaker 1>that Golfair was the alleged mastermind behind the whole thing,

660
00:34:33.920 --> 00:34:37.000
<v Speaker 1>and he apparently knew who Evelyn was and that she

661
00:34:37.039 --> 00:34:39.760
<v Speaker 1>would be babysitting at the resmuse and residence that night.

662
00:34:40.559 --> 00:34:40.800
<v Speaker 4>Well.

663
00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:43.039
<v Speaker 1>The tavern where this recording took place was in the

664
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:46.480
<v Speaker 1>village of Lafarge, which is an hour away from Lacrosse,

665
00:34:47.159 --> 00:34:50.679
<v Speaker 1>though it's worth mentioning that the perpetrator supposedly took Evelyn

666
00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:53.440
<v Speaker 1>to their friend's farm at a location which has never

667
00:34:53.480 --> 00:34:56.280
<v Speaker 1>been disclosed, so for all we know, it could have

668
00:34:56.320 --> 00:34:57.239
<v Speaker 1>been near Lacrosse.

669
00:34:58.199 --> 00:35:00.840
<v Speaker 3>What makes me feel like there could be some credence

670
00:35:00.880 --> 00:35:03.400
<v Speaker 3>to this is that it's been you know, time has passed.

671
00:35:03.920 --> 00:35:05.800
<v Speaker 3>He doesn't think that he's going to get caught because

672
00:35:05.800 --> 00:35:08.559
<v Speaker 3>he's gotten away with it. He's probably drinking. But there's

673
00:35:08.599 --> 00:35:12.119
<v Speaker 3>a lot of details here that unless it's recalling a

674
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:17.039
<v Speaker 3>media account or some kind of conversation they've had, he

675
00:35:17.159 --> 00:35:19.840
<v Speaker 3>knew a lot of information, he said, tell him aout

676
00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:23.280
<v Speaker 3>the Hartley girl right, knew her name, knew that she

677
00:35:23.480 --> 00:35:27.800
<v Speaker 3>was babysitting, knew all of these little details about her

678
00:35:28.800 --> 00:35:32.679
<v Speaker 3>and the scenario that evening. So if it's not accurate,

679
00:35:33.000 --> 00:35:35.920
<v Speaker 3>remember this is the nineteen fifties, this is now the

680
00:35:36.000 --> 00:35:38.480
<v Speaker 3>sixties when he's telling the story.

681
00:35:38.519 --> 00:35:40.159
<v Speaker 2>Would he know all.

682
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:43.480
<v Speaker 3>That information just based on media coverage and newspaper articles

683
00:35:44.239 --> 00:35:45.920
<v Speaker 3>from a crime years earlier.

684
00:35:46.679 --> 00:35:48.639
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's certainly possible. I mean, I don't know

685
00:35:48.719 --> 00:35:51.320
<v Speaker 2>if it was still getting headlines in nineteen sixty eight,

686
00:35:51.360 --> 00:35:54.719
<v Speaker 2>that even if they were writing like fifteenth anniversary articles

687
00:35:54.719 --> 00:35:57.280
<v Speaker 2>and getting the case back in the spotlight again. But

688
00:35:57.760 --> 00:36:01.239
<v Speaker 2>investigators have never said that. He said in this recording

689
00:36:01.320 --> 00:36:03.559
<v Speaker 2>that they had held back from the public and was

690
00:36:03.599 --> 00:36:06.840
<v Speaker 2>not public knowledge. So he didn't really say anything to

691
00:36:06.840 --> 00:36:09.920
<v Speaker 2>indicate that he had any more knowledge of what happened

692
00:36:09.960 --> 00:36:13.880
<v Speaker 2>than everyone else did. But let's talk more about Jack Golfair.

693
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:16.840
<v Speaker 2>We mentioned in part one that the Matoon Journal Gazette

694
00:36:16.840 --> 00:36:19.800
<v Speaker 2>published the original article about this story and said that

695
00:36:19.880 --> 00:36:22.920
<v Speaker 2>his last name was Golfair with a P, but I

696
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:25.880
<v Speaker 2>think that's a mistake. There's a website out there called

697
00:36:25.960 --> 00:36:30.039
<v Speaker 2>crime Blogger nineteen eighty three dot blogspot dot com which

698
00:36:30.079 --> 00:36:33.360
<v Speaker 2>published an extensive article about this case, and they managed

699
00:36:33.360 --> 00:36:35.960
<v Speaker 2>to dig up a couple of old newspaper articles about

700
00:36:36.000 --> 00:36:38.960
<v Speaker 2>someone named Jack Golfair whose last name was spelled with

701
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:41.719
<v Speaker 2>a T, and since they referred to golfare as being

702
00:36:41.760 --> 00:36:44.480
<v Speaker 2>from LeFarge, I'm pretty sure this is the same person

703
00:36:44.519 --> 00:36:47.920
<v Speaker 2>who was mentioned during the recording. These articles reported that

704
00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:51.320
<v Speaker 2>on October the twenty fifth, nineteen fifty one, Golffair and

705
00:36:51.400 --> 00:36:55.119
<v Speaker 2>another man named Marian Driscoll were fined one hundred dollars each,

706
00:36:55.440 --> 00:36:58.719
<v Speaker 2>given suspended jail sentences of eleven to twelve months, and

707
00:36:58.760 --> 00:37:02.400
<v Speaker 2>placed on two years probabtion for quote unquote contributing to

708
00:37:02.440 --> 00:37:05.840
<v Speaker 2>the delinquency of a girl under sixteen. There aren't many

709
00:37:05.920 --> 00:37:09.360
<v Speaker 2>details about this incident, except that Golfaer and Driscoll took

710
00:37:09.400 --> 00:37:11.719
<v Speaker 2>the girl to a tavern before they brought it back

711
00:37:11.760 --> 00:37:14.840
<v Speaker 2>to Golfaer's home and led her into an upstairs bedroom.

712
00:37:15.159 --> 00:37:17.480
<v Speaker 2>They actually appealed their conviction all the way to the

713
00:37:17.480 --> 00:37:20.639
<v Speaker 2>Wisconsin Supreme Court, but the request for a new trial

714
00:37:20.760 --> 00:37:23.960
<v Speaker 2>was denied, and you can actually find the decision online

715
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:28.960
<v Speaker 2>under State versus Driscoll, Wisconsin, nineteen fifty three. Well, this

716
00:37:29.079 --> 00:37:31.800
<v Speaker 2>obviously paints Golfare as the type of guy who liked

717
00:37:31.800 --> 00:37:34.599
<v Speaker 2>to prey on teenage girls, so it does sound like

718
00:37:34.599 --> 00:37:37.119
<v Speaker 2>he could have been capable of abducting a fifteen year

719
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:40.960
<v Speaker 2>old like Evelyn Hartley. In online discussions about this case,

720
00:37:41.159 --> 00:37:44.239
<v Speaker 2>I've seen a few people theorize that perhaps Marian Driscoll

721
00:37:44.400 --> 00:37:47.159
<v Speaker 2>was the mutual friend who owned the farm where Evelyn

722
00:37:47.239 --> 00:37:50.840
<v Speaker 2>was murdered. You can find an article containing Jack Golfaer's

723
00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:53.800
<v Speaker 2>obituary online, as he shot himself at the age of

724
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:57.719
<v Speaker 2>thirty nine on Christmas Day in nineteen sixty seven. I

725
00:37:57.800 --> 00:38:01.159
<v Speaker 2>find the timing to be interesting since the recorded conversation

726
00:38:01.280 --> 00:38:04.960
<v Speaker 2>in the tavern allegedly took place sometime in nineteen sixty eight,

727
00:38:05.480 --> 00:38:08.599
<v Speaker 2>So perhaps Peterson and Barclay felt they could talk more

728
00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:11.880
<v Speaker 2>freely about Evelyn's murder now that golf There was dead.

729
00:38:12.719 --> 00:38:15.320
<v Speaker 2>And you could also infer that Golfaer's guilt over what

730
00:38:15.400 --> 00:38:18.639
<v Speaker 2>he did to Evelyn compelled him to take his own life.

731
00:38:18.800 --> 00:38:21.159
<v Speaker 2>While the police were going to check into this whole story.

732
00:38:21.199 --> 00:38:23.800
<v Speaker 2>It doesn't look like they found any evidence to support it,

733
00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:26.159
<v Speaker 2>and I have no idea if they had any real

734
00:38:26.199 --> 00:38:29.039
<v Speaker 2>plans to exhume the bodies of Peterson or golf There

735
00:38:29.280 --> 00:38:32.000
<v Speaker 2>or anyone else in order to compare their DNA against

736
00:38:32.039 --> 00:38:35.159
<v Speaker 2>the physical evidence. But we don't even know if there

737
00:38:35.280 --> 00:38:38.480
<v Speaker 2>is any available physical evidence, as the denim jacket and

738
00:38:38.599 --> 00:38:41.199
<v Speaker 2>tennis shoes can no longer be found when a search

739
00:38:41.320 --> 00:38:44.760
<v Speaker 2>was performed for them decades after the fact. Without any

740
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:47.960
<v Speaker 2>evidence containing DNA, it will be much more difficult to

741
00:38:48.000 --> 00:38:51.440
<v Speaker 2>conclusively link anyone to the crime, especially since all the

742
00:38:51.480 --> 00:38:55.119
<v Speaker 2>alleged perpetrators are deceased, and if Evelyn was buried in

743
00:38:55.119 --> 00:38:58.599
<v Speaker 2>a Mississippi River floodplain and washed away, then it will

744
00:38:58.599 --> 00:39:01.559
<v Speaker 2>probably be impossible to record for any remains after all

745
00:39:01.639 --> 00:39:02.159
<v Speaker 2>this time.

746
00:39:03.000 --> 00:39:05.119
<v Speaker 3>That's what's so sad here. There's really no one even

747
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:08.480
<v Speaker 3>to question anymore. You had at one point the police

748
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:11.599
<v Speaker 3>had one of these three gentlemen still alive, but he

749
00:39:11.719 --> 00:39:14.800
<v Speaker 3>was ninety seven or something to that extent and had dementia,

750
00:39:15.199 --> 00:39:17.159
<v Speaker 3>so he would have been no help in trying to

751
00:39:17.719 --> 00:39:22.679
<v Speaker 3>recall what had happened. Is very interesting that Jack actually

752
00:39:22.679 --> 00:39:26.960
<v Speaker 3>completed suicide. And obviously, if you're carrying the guilt of

753
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:29.840
<v Speaker 3>murdering somebody, it's possible that could have contributed to that.

754
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:32.400
<v Speaker 3>But if you were going to kill someone and help

755
00:39:32.400 --> 00:39:34.360
<v Speaker 3>your friends dispose of a body, I'm not sure that

756
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:36.719
<v Speaker 3>you would carry a whole lot of guilt. Just kind

757
00:39:36.719 --> 00:39:38.679
<v Speaker 3>of depends on the kind of human being that you are.

758
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:43.119
<v Speaker 3>But here, I still there's part of me who thinks

759
00:39:43.679 --> 00:39:48.159
<v Speaker 3>these are people who worked as a team, they thought

760
00:39:48.199 --> 00:39:50.559
<v Speaker 3>they were bigger and better than the police, and that

761
00:39:50.800 --> 00:39:54.000
<v Speaker 3>there is a potential that there could be a link

762
00:39:54.119 --> 00:39:57.639
<v Speaker 3>back to Evelyn's case. I just I find it hard

763
00:39:57.639 --> 00:39:58.960
<v Speaker 3>to believe you're going to sit in a bar and

764
00:39:59.000 --> 00:40:02.239
<v Speaker 3>brag about it, even though we see criminals all the

765
00:40:02.239 --> 00:40:05.880
<v Speaker 3>time take credit for things they didn't do. I wish,

766
00:40:06.039 --> 00:40:09.639
<v Speaker 3>I wish, I wish they would exhume the bodies and

767
00:40:09.800 --> 00:40:12.920
<v Speaker 3>compare it to DNA or physical evidence. But are we

768
00:40:13.280 --> 00:40:16.239
<v Speaker 3>even sure that there is evidence remaining that would have

769
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.360
<v Speaker 3>any of the perpetrator's DNA on it.

770
00:40:19.480 --> 00:40:22.079
<v Speaker 2>I'm entirely sure about that. I mean, we mentioned how

771
00:40:22.079 --> 00:40:24.599
<v Speaker 2>the jacket and the shoes are gone, and they might

772
00:40:24.639 --> 00:40:26.840
<v Speaker 2>still have the blood samples found at the scene, but

773
00:40:27.039 --> 00:40:29.559
<v Speaker 2>that blood probably belongs to Evelyn, so I'm not sure

774
00:40:29.559 --> 00:40:31.960
<v Speaker 2>if you're going to find any of the DNA belonging

775
00:40:32.000 --> 00:40:34.639
<v Speaker 2>to the perpetrator on it. And that's the problem is

776
00:40:34.679 --> 00:40:36.840
<v Speaker 2>that this was nineteen fifty three, so I'm sure no

777
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:39.320
<v Speaker 2>one was envisioning that we would need to hold onto

778
00:40:39.320 --> 00:40:42.119
<v Speaker 2>this evidence for decades and then do this new form

779
00:40:42.159 --> 00:40:44.880
<v Speaker 2>of testing in order to potentially identify the killer.

780
00:40:45.679 --> 00:40:48.039
<v Speaker 3>No, I think that you would assume that you know,

781
00:40:49.079 --> 00:40:51.159
<v Speaker 3>this is what we have, But you know what the

782
00:40:51.199 --> 00:40:53.559
<v Speaker 3>shame is is that it's the shoes and the jacket

783
00:40:53.599 --> 00:40:56.480
<v Speaker 3>and things like that that would have the potential to

784
00:40:56.559 --> 00:40:59.199
<v Speaker 3>have both her blood and their DNA evidence on it,

785
00:40:59.239 --> 00:41:00.719
<v Speaker 3>and we just simply don't have it.

786
00:41:01.480 --> 00:41:04.519
<v Speaker 2>I do find it interesting that this alleged confession took

787
00:41:04.519 --> 00:41:07.840
<v Speaker 2>place only like a couple months after golf There suicide,

788
00:41:07.920 --> 00:41:11.360
<v Speaker 2>So maybe if they were responsible, Peterson had this mentality

789
00:41:11.400 --> 00:41:13.119
<v Speaker 2>while we're going to brag about it, and if anyone

790
00:41:13.159 --> 00:41:17.920
<v Speaker 2>from law enforcement starts questioning me or starting an investigation,

791
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:19.840
<v Speaker 2>we'll just blame it on the dead guy and say

792
00:41:19.880 --> 00:41:22.159
<v Speaker 2>that we were just joking when we said we were involved.

793
00:41:23.360 --> 00:41:25.960
<v Speaker 1>As it is, right now, there are far too many

794
00:41:26.039 --> 00:41:29.239
<v Speaker 1>unanswered questions for me to believe with any certainty the

795
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:32.440
<v Speaker 1>jack golf There and his two accomplices were the perpetrators.

796
00:41:33.199 --> 00:41:36.639
<v Speaker 1>Since LeFarge was an hour from Lacrosse, it's still unclear

797
00:41:36.719 --> 00:41:39.239
<v Speaker 1>how golf There would have known that Evelyn was babysitting

798
00:41:39.320 --> 00:41:42.760
<v Speaker 1>at the Rasmusen home that night. All that being said,

799
00:41:42.840 --> 00:41:45.480
<v Speaker 1>if you search hard enough online, you'll find a couple

800
00:41:45.480 --> 00:41:48.159
<v Speaker 1>of comments from people who claim to have a personal

801
00:41:48.159 --> 00:41:52.559
<v Speaker 1>connection to Lacrosse and have shared uncooperated rumors that Evelyn

802
00:41:52.599 --> 00:41:55.920
<v Speaker 1>met golf There because students would sneak away to LeFarge

803
00:41:55.960 --> 00:41:58.320
<v Speaker 1>to drink and party, and this was how we might

804
00:41:58.360 --> 00:42:02.159
<v Speaker 1>have learned about Evelyn's babysitting. Of course, everything that we've

805
00:42:02.159 --> 00:42:05.000
<v Speaker 1>read about Evelyn makes her sound like a model teenager

806
00:42:05.039 --> 00:42:08.000
<v Speaker 1>who wouldn't sneak away to another town to party. But

807
00:42:08.280 --> 00:42:10.639
<v Speaker 1>perhaps she had a wild side that her family didn't

808
00:42:10.679 --> 00:42:13.360
<v Speaker 1>know about. I can't speak to the veracity of these

809
00:42:13.440 --> 00:42:17.599
<v Speaker 1>rumors that Evelyn personally knew Golfair, But even so, if

810
00:42:17.639 --> 00:42:20.559
<v Speaker 1>Golfair and his accomplices took Evelyn all the way to

811
00:42:20.639 --> 00:42:23.840
<v Speaker 1>LeFarge should murder her and bury her body, why would

812
00:42:23.880 --> 00:42:26.760
<v Speaker 1>they return to an area only a couple miles outside

813
00:42:26.840 --> 00:42:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Lacrosse to dispose of her bloody undergarments along with the

814
00:42:30.760 --> 00:42:34.000
<v Speaker 1>bloody tennis shoes and denim jacket. Why not bury the

815
00:42:34.039 --> 00:42:36.519
<v Speaker 1>evidence with Evelyn or dispose of it in an area

816
00:42:36.639 --> 00:42:40.000
<v Speaker 1>closer to Lfarge where there isn't a large scale search

817
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:44.280
<v Speaker 1>operation going on. Remember, the undergarments were discovered on October

818
00:42:44.320 --> 00:42:47.079
<v Speaker 1>twenty seventh, but the area had been searched the day

819
00:42:47.079 --> 00:42:50.519
<v Speaker 1>before and the undergarments were not there. So this would

820
00:42:50.559 --> 00:42:53.360
<v Speaker 1>imply that Golfair or one of his accomplices made a

821
00:42:53.360 --> 00:42:56.239
<v Speaker 1>special trip to Lacrosse a few days after the crime

822
00:42:56.360 --> 00:42:59.280
<v Speaker 1>in order to dump them there. Granted, this may have

823
00:42:59.320 --> 00:43:02.119
<v Speaker 1>been a deliberate attempt at misdirection in order to keep

824
00:43:02.159 --> 00:43:06.000
<v Speaker 1>the investigation away from LeFarge, but it's still fairly risky

825
00:43:06.679 --> 00:43:09.039
<v Speaker 1>with the way the crime was carried out. Some people

826
00:43:09.079 --> 00:43:12.960
<v Speaker 1>have always suggested that the perpetrator or perpetrators were locals

827
00:43:13.239 --> 00:43:16.280
<v Speaker 1>who had knowledge of the area rather than other towners

828
00:43:16.320 --> 00:43:17.559
<v Speaker 1>like golf Are and Peterson.

829
00:43:19.639 --> 00:43:21.920
<v Speaker 3>That's true. When I think about these people who are

830
00:43:22.119 --> 00:43:25.800
<v Speaker 3>disposing of evidence, you could be on the right tractors

831
00:43:25.840 --> 00:43:27.400
<v Speaker 3>where you say, well, if you threw it out the

832
00:43:27.400 --> 00:43:30.119
<v Speaker 3>window towards lacrosse and things like that. Maybe it is,

833
00:43:30.480 --> 00:43:33.599
<v Speaker 3>you know, putting the scent off for the police, but

834
00:43:33.679 --> 00:43:37.760
<v Speaker 3>to me, it almost seems like someone who's scared and panicking.

835
00:43:38.199 --> 00:43:42.079
<v Speaker 3>They didn't bury the evidence with the body, and now

836
00:43:42.119 --> 00:43:45.559
<v Speaker 3>that the police are going to these extreme measures and

837
00:43:45.599 --> 00:43:49.719
<v Speaker 3>they're really hunting for this young girl for evidence for

838
00:43:49.800 --> 00:43:52.880
<v Speaker 3>perpetrators on a scale that I'm guarantee you that city

839
00:43:52.920 --> 00:43:56.119
<v Speaker 3>had never seen. It almost seems like someone who's panicked.

840
00:43:56.480 --> 00:43:59.480
<v Speaker 3>And after a search is conducted and they hear on

841
00:44:00.199 --> 00:44:02.280
<v Speaker 3>the newspaper or something that a search is being conducted,

842
00:44:02.719 --> 00:44:04.800
<v Speaker 3>they go and they try to discarded this evidence like

843
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:10.400
<v Speaker 3>a very panicked almost offender, someone who is kind of cool,

844
00:44:10.480 --> 00:44:13.360
<v Speaker 3>calm and collected. I don't see them throwing things out

845
00:44:13.360 --> 00:44:16.679
<v Speaker 3>the window, like you said, burn them, put them where

846
00:44:16.800 --> 00:44:20.800
<v Speaker 3>the body was discarded something like that, but not thrown

847
00:44:20.800 --> 00:44:22.679
<v Speaker 3>out the window. To me, that seems very kind of

848
00:44:22.760 --> 00:44:24.199
<v Speaker 3>chaotic and scared.

849
00:44:24.960 --> 00:44:27.840
<v Speaker 2>It's almost like perhaps they forgot they even had this evidence,

850
00:44:27.880 --> 00:44:30.239
<v Speaker 2>that it was three days after the fact, and they realized, oh,

851
00:44:30.440 --> 00:44:32.679
<v Speaker 2>we still have Evelyn's bloody clothes inside my car, I

852
00:44:32.719 --> 00:44:34.360
<v Speaker 2>should get rid of them. And then they just toss

853
00:44:34.400 --> 00:44:36.679
<v Speaker 2>them out the first place that they passed by, and

854
00:44:36.800 --> 00:44:40.239
<v Speaker 2>don't think about the significance of like going taking extra

855
00:44:40.280 --> 00:44:43.719
<v Speaker 2>steps in order to completely destroy it. If there was

856
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.480
<v Speaker 2>definitive proof that Evelyn had ties to Lfarge and a

857
00:44:46.519 --> 00:44:49.400
<v Speaker 2>cross paths with Golf there before she went missing, then

858
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:51.840
<v Speaker 2>that would greatly increase my belief that the confession was

859
00:44:51.960 --> 00:44:55.400
<v Speaker 2>legitimate and Golf there murdered her. But otherwise I can't

860
00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:59.400
<v Speaker 2>say with absolute certainty that he was responsible overall. It

861
00:44:59.400 --> 00:45:01.719
<v Speaker 2>would have to if the killer was someone who never

862
00:45:01.760 --> 00:45:05.480
<v Speaker 2>showed up on the radar and completely escaped detection. Whoever

863
00:45:05.519 --> 00:45:08.079
<v Speaker 2>it was, chances are they're long dead by now and

864
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:11.679
<v Speaker 2>will never face justice for this crime. Regardless, this will

865
00:45:11.679 --> 00:45:14.559
<v Speaker 2>always remain one of the most frightening unsolved missing person's

866
00:45:14.559 --> 00:45:17.880
<v Speaker 2>cases of all time. You'll always hear people share stories

867
00:45:17.920 --> 00:45:20.559
<v Speaker 2>about how they once lived in a peaceful community where

868
00:45:20.559 --> 00:45:22.880
<v Speaker 2>you didn't even have to lock your doors, but then

869
00:45:22.920 --> 00:45:26.159
<v Speaker 2>an horrific event like this changed everything. Like I mentioned

870
00:45:26.199 --> 00:45:28.679
<v Speaker 2>in our intro to part one, this is a situation

871
00:45:28.840 --> 00:45:31.360
<v Speaker 2>straight out of a horror movie, except that it involved

872
00:45:31.360 --> 00:45:35.360
<v Speaker 2>a real life monster rather than a supernatural one. Anyway,

873
00:45:35.400 --> 00:45:37.760
<v Speaker 2>if someone can still come forward with a tape recorded

874
00:45:37.800 --> 00:45:40.880
<v Speaker 2>confession after fifty years, then I guess we can never

875
00:45:40.960 --> 00:45:44.239
<v Speaker 2>completely write off the possibility of finding out what happened here.

876
00:45:44.639 --> 00:45:47.360
<v Speaker 2>So if by chance you happen to have any information

877
00:45:47.440 --> 00:45:51.320
<v Speaker 2>about the unsolved disappearance of Evelyn Hartley, please contact the

878
00:45:51.320 --> 00:45:55.760
<v Speaker 2>appropriate authorities. Jules Ashley any final thoughts on this case.

879
00:45:57.199 --> 00:46:00.320
<v Speaker 3>This is as heartbreaking as you get. You have a

880
00:46:00.480 --> 00:46:05.920
<v Speaker 3>young girl who it's homecoming weakened, everyone's going to the game,

881
00:46:06.079 --> 00:46:08.880
<v Speaker 3>and she gets an opportunity to babysit, an opportunity that

882
00:46:08.920 --> 00:46:11.840
<v Speaker 3>she really isn't that excited about because I guarantee you

883
00:46:12.199 --> 00:46:14.519
<v Speaker 3>she wanted to go to the game too, or wanted

884
00:46:14.599 --> 00:46:16.880
<v Speaker 3>to be with her friends that night. And Mom says, go,

885
00:46:17.679 --> 00:46:19.960
<v Speaker 3>you need to go because you made an obligation. You

886
00:46:20.400 --> 00:46:23.639
<v Speaker 3>gave them your word, and they're leaving. They need you

887
00:46:23.639 --> 00:46:27.440
<v Speaker 3>to watch their little girl. And it's not just a

888
00:46:27.480 --> 00:46:30.599
<v Speaker 3>few minutes later that Mom gets this gut feeling that

889
00:46:30.719 --> 00:46:34.440
<v Speaker 3>something's wrong, that she needs to reach out to Evelyn.

890
00:46:34.599 --> 00:46:37.400
<v Speaker 3>And by the time that they realize, Evelyn hasn't called

891
00:46:37.400 --> 00:46:39.880
<v Speaker 3>when she said she would, and Dad goes over to

892
00:46:39.920 --> 00:46:42.440
<v Speaker 3>the house. He peeks in the window and he sees

893
00:46:42.480 --> 00:46:46.199
<v Speaker 3>her school books scattered everywhere, her glasses are broken, her

894
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:49.400
<v Speaker 3>shoe is sitting there, a single shoe. And it's not

895
00:46:49.599 --> 00:46:52.880
<v Speaker 3>until later you realize there's blood evidence outside the home

896
00:46:53.239 --> 00:46:55.480
<v Speaker 3>and a possibility that she was abducted and taken by

897
00:46:55.599 --> 00:46:59.440
<v Speaker 3>one or two perpetrators away from that area, and her

898
00:46:59.480 --> 00:47:03.039
<v Speaker 3>body's never found. So you have two families that are

899
00:47:03.039 --> 00:47:06.159
<v Speaker 3>destroyed by this case, the family of the little girl

900
00:47:06.280 --> 00:47:10.239
<v Speaker 3>she was babysitting and Evelyn's family, And then you have

901
00:47:10.280 --> 00:47:12.800
<v Speaker 3>a whole community who then has to sit back and

902
00:47:12.800 --> 00:47:15.239
<v Speaker 3>say it's not even safe for our little girls to

903
00:47:15.280 --> 00:47:18.039
<v Speaker 3>go out and babysit, which is one of the most

904
00:47:18.320 --> 00:47:21.119
<v Speaker 3>coming of age things that we all do, right, going

905
00:47:21.159 --> 00:47:25.840
<v Speaker 3>to care for a family friend's child. Evelyn likely lost

906
00:47:25.880 --> 00:47:27.920
<v Speaker 3>her life doing just that in a home where she

907
00:47:27.920 --> 00:47:31.400
<v Speaker 3>should have been safe. So it might have been, you

908
00:47:31.440 --> 00:47:35.920
<v Speaker 3>know what, seventy years ago, but to me, when you

909
00:47:35.960 --> 00:47:39.199
<v Speaker 3>think about this, it's horrifying to this day to think

910
00:47:39.280 --> 00:47:42.000
<v Speaker 3>that you could be in your home or a family

911
00:47:42.039 --> 00:47:45.719
<v Speaker 3>friend's home and lose your life. And even worse for

912
00:47:45.760 --> 00:47:49.159
<v Speaker 3>Evelyn's family, they didn't know where she was. They never

913
00:47:49.199 --> 00:47:53.079
<v Speaker 3>got the resolution of where she is, where her body

914
00:47:53.159 --> 00:47:55.440
<v Speaker 3>might be, what happened to her long term, and her

915
00:47:55.480 --> 00:47:59.679
<v Speaker 3>family died without knowing those answers. So it's just incredibly tragic.

916
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:03.400
<v Speaker 3>It's one of those where it's almost been too long.

917
00:48:03.719 --> 00:48:07.400
<v Speaker 3>The evidence isn't there anymore to necessarily provide a resolution.

918
00:48:07.480 --> 00:48:10.960
<v Speaker 3>It would take someone who is still alive. That's another

919
00:48:11.000 --> 00:48:14.559
<v Speaker 3>problem in this case that knows information. But my goodness,

920
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:16.800
<v Speaker 3>just a normal coming of age evening I went to

921
00:48:16.840 --> 00:48:21.440
<v Speaker 3>babysit somebody's child and she didn't come home. So sad.

922
00:48:22.880 --> 00:48:24.840
<v Speaker 1>The story hit me in the gut because it just

923
00:48:24.880 --> 00:48:28.840
<v Speaker 1>reminded me of being a teenage babysitter and looking out

924
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:32.760
<v Speaker 1>that dark window because I'd watched all the Halloween movies

925
00:48:33.480 --> 00:48:37.559
<v Speaker 1>and being terrified, just knowing that, like what lies out

926
00:48:37.599 --> 00:48:41.320
<v Speaker 1>there you don't know. It gave me the hebe gbs

927
00:48:41.400 --> 00:48:44.440
<v Speaker 1>at that age, and to think that Evelyn didn't want

928
00:48:44.480 --> 00:48:47.400
<v Speaker 1>to babysit, And I wonder like, did she not want

929
00:48:47.400 --> 00:48:49.840
<v Speaker 1>a babysit because she wanted to go to the game,

930
00:48:50.719 --> 00:48:53.320
<v Speaker 1>or because it was a big deal with homecoming game,

931
00:48:53.719 --> 00:48:56.000
<v Speaker 1>or was it just that she had some kind of

932
00:48:56.039 --> 00:48:59.039
<v Speaker 1>premonition in the way that her mom had. The premonition

933
00:48:59.800 --> 00:49:02.159
<v Speaker 1>was just call Evelyn at this point, and her dad

934
00:49:02.239 --> 00:49:04.199
<v Speaker 1>was like, no, no, it's okay. We're gonna hear from

935
00:49:04.239 --> 00:49:08.239
<v Speaker 1>her at eight thirty. So it just really makes me

936
00:49:08.360 --> 00:49:10.840
<v Speaker 1>wonder like what she was thinking at that time, and

937
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:13.800
<v Speaker 1>if she didn't want a babysit because she had a

938
00:49:13.840 --> 00:49:17.519
<v Speaker 1>strange feeling, or if it was anything along those lines.

939
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:21.519
<v Speaker 1>My heart really breaks for the family, not only for

940
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.840
<v Speaker 1>Evelyn's family, but for the Rasmusin family as well, because

941
00:49:25.880 --> 00:49:30.119
<v Speaker 1>we see how it affected their daughters, because Jana said

942
00:49:30.119 --> 00:49:32.519
<v Speaker 1>that when they moved, they put bars on the windows,

943
00:49:32.920 --> 00:49:36.880
<v Speaker 1>and rightfully so. I can't imagine the trauma that would

944
00:49:36.920 --> 00:49:41.079
<v Speaker 1>be inflicted knowing that your babysit or that you hired

945
00:49:41.280 --> 00:49:45.320
<v Speaker 1>was taken out of your home and likely something terrible

946
00:49:45.400 --> 00:49:48.039
<v Speaker 1>was done to her because she's never seen again. It

947
00:49:48.039 --> 00:49:50.519
<v Speaker 1>would inform the way that you would then parents your

948
00:49:50.559 --> 00:49:53.880
<v Speaker 1>own children, and it probably did to the entire community,

949
00:49:54.159 --> 00:49:57.159
<v Speaker 1>because I'm sure this reverberated outwards in a big way,

950
00:49:57.599 --> 00:50:00.800
<v Speaker 1>and insofar as who is the most like likely suspect,

951
00:50:01.559 --> 00:50:04.559
<v Speaker 1>I think that there's really not a lot to go

952
00:50:04.639 --> 00:50:07.840
<v Speaker 1>on here. I don't think there's anything that we can

953
00:50:07.880 --> 00:50:10.920
<v Speaker 1>cling to enough, or that I personally can cling to enough.

954
00:50:10.920 --> 00:50:11.159
<v Speaker 2>To go.

955
00:50:11.239 --> 00:50:15.000
<v Speaker 1>Aha. Those look like the likely perpetrators. I think, why

956
00:50:15.039 --> 00:50:19.119
<v Speaker 1>would Peterson be admitting to or confessing to a crime

957
00:50:19.599 --> 00:50:22.119
<v Speaker 1>if he wasn't part of it. But like Asha just mentioned,

958
00:50:23.119 --> 00:50:26.400
<v Speaker 1>criminals confess to crimes that they didn't commit all the time.

959
00:50:26.760 --> 00:50:29.679
<v Speaker 1>Maybe he thought that this was bragging rights in some

960
00:50:29.760 --> 00:50:33.639
<v Speaker 1>kind of sick way, or he was responsible and him

961
00:50:33.679 --> 00:50:37.360
<v Speaker 1>and golf Heer and the other unnamed person. Maybe the

962
00:50:37.440 --> 00:50:41.119
<v Speaker 1>farmer who was mentioned earlier took her to the farm

963
00:50:41.239 --> 00:50:44.599
<v Speaker 1>or this undisclosed location. Maybe it went down that way.

964
00:50:44.639 --> 00:50:47.719
<v Speaker 1>But maybe it's just some guys bragging about something and

965
00:50:47.800 --> 00:50:50.960
<v Speaker 1>trying to take credit. I'm really undecided on that. But

966
00:50:51.559 --> 00:50:54.199
<v Speaker 1>like Ash just mentioned, it's really sad that we don't

967
00:50:54.239 --> 00:50:56.880
<v Speaker 1>have a lot of the evidence here and most of

968
00:50:56.920 --> 00:50:59.840
<v Speaker 1>the people who are likely involved are deceased.

969
00:51:00.719 --> 00:51:03.119
<v Speaker 2>Yeah. I remember hearing about this case many years ago,

970
00:51:03.239 --> 00:51:05.360
<v Speaker 2>and it was one of the more frightening missing person's

971
00:51:05.440 --> 00:51:08.360
<v Speaker 2>cases I've ever seen, because in a lot of these cases,

972
00:51:08.400 --> 00:51:10.599
<v Speaker 2>they just vanished into thin air and you don't know

973
00:51:10.599 --> 00:51:13.519
<v Speaker 2>what happened to them. But here we have ample evidence

974
00:51:13.559 --> 00:51:16.119
<v Speaker 2>that Evelyn was the victim of a home invasion and

975
00:51:16.159 --> 00:51:19.519
<v Speaker 2>a violent abduction and put up a major struggle before

976
00:51:19.559 --> 00:51:22.000
<v Speaker 2>she was taken away from that house. And it's a

977
00:51:22.000 --> 00:51:24.719
<v Speaker 2>scenario you see in horror movies and spooky stories all

978
00:51:24.760 --> 00:51:27.960
<v Speaker 2>the time, the babysitter who's alone with a child and

979
00:51:28.079 --> 00:51:30.960
<v Speaker 2>is in a very vulnerable situation, and pretty much a

980
00:51:31.000 --> 00:51:34.559
<v Speaker 2>real life horror story actually happened here. When I first

981
00:51:34.559 --> 00:51:36.760
<v Speaker 2>became familiar with this case, most of the sources I

982
00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:39.880
<v Speaker 2>found mentioned the whole ed Green connection, so I was thinking, hm,

983
00:51:39.960 --> 00:51:42.559
<v Speaker 2>maybe this is an unconfirmed victim of him. But the

984
00:51:42.559 --> 00:51:44.719
<v Speaker 2>more I researched it, the more I realized that the

985
00:51:44.960 --> 00:51:48.400
<v Speaker 2>Green connection was very thin, and it's extremely unlikely that

986
00:51:48.440 --> 00:51:51.079
<v Speaker 2>he was responsible, and it's nothing more than a red

987
00:51:51.119 --> 00:51:53.760
<v Speaker 2>herring because he happened to live one hundred miles away,

988
00:51:53.920 --> 00:51:56.679
<v Speaker 2>was born in the same town that Evelyn went missing from,

989
00:51:56.719 --> 00:52:00.760
<v Speaker 2>and was arrested only four years later. But now I

990
00:52:00.920 --> 00:52:03.280
<v Speaker 2>definitely think that there were at least two people involved.

991
00:52:03.480 --> 00:52:06.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't know if they were complete strangers or anyone

992
00:52:06.119 --> 00:52:08.599
<v Speaker 2>from Evelyn's personal life. I don't know if they were

993
00:52:08.599 --> 00:52:11.400
<v Speaker 2>specifically targeting her or if they just selected her at

994
00:52:11.480 --> 00:52:14.280
<v Speaker 2>random because they noticed, perhaps that she was home alone

995
00:52:14.360 --> 00:52:17.360
<v Speaker 2>through the front window which didn't have any curtains and

996
00:52:17.480 --> 00:52:20.760
<v Speaker 2>just decided to take advantage of the opportunity. I really

997
00:52:20.760 --> 00:52:25.159
<v Speaker 2>can't say if Jack goll There and Tywee Peterson are responsible,

998
00:52:25.199 --> 00:52:28.599
<v Speaker 2>if Peterson's confession is just a brag, and if these

999
00:52:28.639 --> 00:52:31.639
<v Speaker 2>two men had any involvement in the crime, because as

1000
00:52:31.679 --> 00:52:34.199
<v Speaker 2>far as anyone can tell, no connection could be found

1001
00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:37.000
<v Speaker 2>between Evelyn or any of these men, So if they

1002
00:52:37.000 --> 00:52:39.760
<v Speaker 2>weren't responsible, it was a completely random crime. But it

1003
00:52:39.880 --> 00:52:43.760
<v Speaker 2>just seems major overkill, incredibly brazen that someone would attempt

1004
00:52:43.800 --> 00:52:46.960
<v Speaker 2>to abduct a girl in an otherwise safe suburban neighborhood.

1005
00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:49.199
<v Speaker 2>But as we've seen in other cases, like the Janell

1006
00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:52.840
<v Speaker 2>Matthews case, that sort of thing does happen, and we

1007
00:52:53.079 --> 00:52:55.639
<v Speaker 2>have had a resolution in Janell Matthews case. So maybe

1008
00:52:55.679 --> 00:52:58.920
<v Speaker 2>one of these days they will find Evelyn's remains. I

1009
00:52:59.000 --> 00:53:01.880
<v Speaker 2>know that her kill or killers are likely to cease

1010
00:53:01.920 --> 00:53:04.280
<v Speaker 2>by now, but I would like to see it remains

1011
00:53:04.480 --> 00:53:08.079
<v Speaker 2>recovered and given a proper burial and learn conclusive answers

1012
00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:09.360
<v Speaker 2>of what actually happened here.

1013
00:53:10.400 --> 00:53:11.880
<v Speaker 4>Robin, do you want to tell us a little bit

1014
00:53:11.880 --> 00:53:13.360
<v Speaker 4>about the Trail Went Cold Patreon?

1015
00:53:14.119 --> 00:53:17.079
<v Speaker 2>Yes, the Trail Cold Patreon has been around for three years, now,

1016
00:53:17.159 --> 00:53:21.039
<v Speaker 2>and we offer these standard bonus features like early ad

1017
00:53:21.079 --> 00:53:24.639
<v Speaker 2>free episodes, and I also send out stickers and sign

1018
00:53:24.760 --> 00:53:26.960
<v Speaker 2>thank you cards to anyone who signs up with us

1019
00:53:26.960 --> 00:53:30.440
<v Speaker 2>on Patreon if you join our five dollars tier Tier two.

1020
00:53:30.920 --> 00:53:34.559
<v Speaker 2>We also offer monthly bonus episodes in which I talk

1021
00:53:34.639 --> 00:53:37.159
<v Speaker 2>about cases which are not featured on the Trail went

1022
00:53:37.280 --> 00:53:40.480
<v Speaker 2>Cold's original feed, so they're exclusive to Patreon, and if

1023
00:53:40.480 --> 00:53:43.559
<v Speaker 2>you join our highest tier tier free the ten dollar tier.

1024
00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:47.159
<v Speaker 2>One of the features we offer is a audio commentary

1025
00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:50.760
<v Speaker 2>track over classic episodes of UNSAWD Mysteries, where you can

1026
00:53:50.800 --> 00:53:53.920
<v Speaker 2>download an audio file and then boot up the original

1027
00:53:54.000 --> 00:53:58.079
<v Speaker 2>Unsolved Mysteries episode on Amazon Prime or YouTube and play

1028
00:53:58.119 --> 00:54:00.800
<v Speaker 2>it with my audio commentary playing in the background, where

1029
00:54:00.840 --> 00:54:04.119
<v Speaker 2>I just provide trivia and factoids about the cases featured

1030
00:54:04.159 --> 00:54:07.480
<v Speaker 2>in this episode. And incidentally, the very first episode that

1031
00:54:07.519 --> 00:54:10.559
<v Speaker 2>I did a commentary track over was the episode featuring

1032
00:54:10.599 --> 00:54:13.400
<v Speaker 2>this case. So if you want to download a commentary

1033
00:54:13.480 --> 00:54:15.880
<v Speaker 2>track in which I make more smart ass remarks about

1034
00:54:15.960 --> 00:54:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Jewel Kaylor, then be sure to join Tier three.

1035
00:54:19.039 --> 00:54:20.559
<v Speaker 4>So I want to let you know a little bit

1036
00:54:20.559 --> 00:54:23.519
<v Speaker 4>about the Jewels and Nashty patreons. So there's early ad

1037
00:54:23.519 --> 00:54:26.440
<v Speaker 4>free episodes of The Path Went Chili. We've got our

1038
00:54:26.440 --> 00:54:29.480
<v Speaker 4>Pathwent Chili mini's, which are always over an hour, so

1039
00:54:29.480 --> 00:54:31.599
<v Speaker 4>they're not very mini, but they're just too short to

1040
00:54:31.639 --> 00:54:34.559
<v Speaker 4>turn into a series, and we're really enjoying doing those,

1041
00:54:34.639 --> 00:54:37.199
<v Speaker 4>so we hope you'll check out those patreons. We'll link

1042
00:54:37.199 --> 00:54:38.280
<v Speaker 4>them in the show notes.

1043
00:54:38.800 --> 00:54:40.719
<v Speaker 2>So I want to thank you all for listening, and

1044
00:54:40.800 --> 00:54:43.199
<v Speaker 2>any chance you have to share us on social media

1045
00:54:43.239 --> 00:54:46.239
<v Speaker 2>with a friend or to rate and review is greatly appreciated.

1046
00:54:46.360 --> 00:54:48.760
<v Speaker 2>You can email us at The Pathwent Chili at gmail

1047
00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:51.800
<v Speaker 2>dot com. You can reach us on Twitter at the Pathwin.

1048
00:54:52.239 --> 00:54:54.719
<v Speaker 2>So until next time, be sure to bundle up because

1049
00:54:54.719 --> 00:54:57.519
<v Speaker 2>cold trails and Chili pass call for warm clothing.

1050
00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:00.880
<v Speaker 4>Music by Paul Rich from the podcast Cold Colors Comedy