Speaker 1: What is a fellasi Because I am Dan Valley coming
at you solo to talk a little bit about Jimmy Butler,
who will shout Sharani at ESPN dropping her name on Christmas.
Speaker 2: Not necessarily one we weren't.
Speaker 3: Expecting, but just reporting that Jimmy Butler would prefer a
trade out of Miami in advance of free agency, and
the crux of the report was basically anchored in not
just his future, but his being caught off guard by
pat Riley's comments at the end of last season.
Speaker 1: Pat Riley has since commented on it because pat Riley
is basically a front office gangster and I love it.
Speaker 2: At this point, lots.
Speaker 1: To dig into, but if you're new around here, please
remember to subscribe join our discord the leak to that's
in the podcast description. Great discussion is going on there
all over the place. Grant and I will be back
later this week for our usual Saturday podcast. I think
we have a fun topic in store for you. I
don't think I know, so Yeah. If you're checking this
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help us a ton to come up the charts as well.
Speaker 2: In addition to liking and commenting on YouTube.
Speaker 1: We appreciate you all who give us that support and
helped Iago love us back throughout the year.
Speaker 2: The basis of this podcast.
Speaker 1: Though, I think, is going to be I'm just going
to go through some of the destinations that I think
well that we know Jimmy Butler listed, then talk about
some dark horses. We'll talk about the plausibility behind everything,
and ultimately how we see this coming out without further delay, though,
let's hop to it. Let's get to the bullet points
of everything that's going on so far before we get
into the teams. Butler has a two point four million
dollars player option he will decline for next season. Pat
Riley has since come out and said that these rumors
are a distraction and the Miami Heat will not be
trading Jimmy Butler. We've heard that type of front office
peak before from others. Butler reportedly prefers our trade to
the Golden State Warriors, the Dallas Mavericks, the Phoenix Suns,
or the Houston Rockets. When you look at the landscape,
if we're getting into does Jimmy Butler have any leverage here.
He does because of free agency, but when you look
at the free agency landscape, Brooklyn is right now the
only team that's projected to probably have enough cap space
to sign him out right if he wants his max salary. However,
there are other teams Detroit, Washington, San Antonio a few
others that they have a pathway to getting there if
they need to or if they want Jimmy Butler. You
can also look at sign in trades, which is probably
the Heat's biggest form of leverage here too, is that
the market is so lacking of cap space that if
he wants to leave, he's eventually going to need their help,
whether that's in the middle of the season or is
it over the summer via sign in trade. There could
be an opt in in trade as well. With that said,
I do if I had to guess, I think Jimmy
Butler's going to get traded by the deadline. You don't
want to risk losing him for nothing. If there is
a dark horse team out there that maybe goes about
creating cap space, or even if you're able to sign
in trade or complete an opted in trade, it's very
rarely unless he doesn't isn't going to have a market
that you're going to get as much in a sign
and trade as you would if you're trading someone just
in the middle of the year when they're when their
contract essentially isn't up. I know we're talking about a
few months difference here, but Butler's not. He's thirty five,
so he's not getting any younger. Those few extra months matter.
And if the no team is going to trade for
him and then lose him, like if the price drops
low enough where the Heat just say we want to
get off his money and get whatever we can, and
we're just taking back expiring contracts. Maybe there's a team
or two or five that would just take a half
season rental on Jimmy Butler. But if you're the Heat
and you want some type of first round equity or
the prospect equivalent, you're going to trade Jimmy Butler, maybe
not necessarily to the teams that he has listed, but
to a team that has already had the ability to
talk to him. You're obviously going to give them that
right if you're in trade negotiations and that team knows
that they're almost overwhelmingly going to keep him, and so
I kind of believe that he is going to get
traded this season. Anyone hoping for fireworks and the lead
up to the trade deadline, I think we'll get that
big name, and I think he will be He will
be the biggest name moved because you would have to
make the case. And you can go check out our
trade deadline big board where at least discussed it that
there's a more valuable player or more impactful player theoretically
up for grabs and it's him or Zach Lavine or
the two names that are going to be there. Maybe
you could make a case for his eye on Williamson
fly er if he ends up getting moved, does someone
come out of left field and wind up hitting the
trade market? But that kind of spoils the topic that's
to come. So I'm not going to get into the
Darron Fox or the Anthony Davis of the mellow ball
of it all.
Speaker 2: So I think he gets moved.
Speaker 1: I think it's probably it's probably in the Heat's best
interest to move him because I think they get more
now than they will if they're exploring sign and trade
or opted in trade scenarios. And we know that the
Sixers ended up making out quite well.
Speaker 2: If the James Harden.
Speaker 1: Trade, I would just say, I feel like it's a
little different because Harden's market was worse than a finite
whereas Jimmy Butler might have a finite market. But there
might just be teams that are willing to grease the
wheels to an extent of, hey, can we clear enough
if Jimmy Butler wants thirty five million dollars a year?
Speaker 2: How do we get to that number? And there will
be teams that are at.
Speaker 1: Least flexible enough to say, hey, like, if you need
to carve out a bunch of cap space, you look
at not just the Nets will certainly take on contracts,
but maybe the Pistons will be there, depending on how
much flexibility the Wizards have. And just also the new
rules that allow you to take players in to your
mid level exception that will benefit teams that might want
to clear out cap space over the summer. And I think, yes,
Jimmy Butler is on the older side, but I really
do believe there'll be more teams that will be inclined
to do that for him this summer ahead of his
age thirty six season than there were with James Harden.
Just because I think what Jimmy Butler does is just
more scalable than what James Harden. I know Jimmy Butler's
not the greatest shooter, but he has just more experience
playing off the ball, and the defense you get from him,
they could just makes it more scalable, even at an
older age. So my guest is though he gets traded
mid season because that he does have some real leverage here.
Moving on to the list of teams though, we'll begin
with the Dallas Mavericks here. They're interesting and I want
to dispel a notion that Dallas has to trade Kyrie
Irving if they want to obtain Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 2: They really don't have to.
Speaker 1: And I'll throw up if you're watching on YouTube with
a trade, just a framework of a trade where that
would get you Jimmy Butler. It's just you have to
ask yourself. And as I'm recording this, we don't have
any word on how long of a time Luka Doncic
is going to be out with that calf strain he
suffered on Christmas, just that the mass were bracing for
an extended period of time.
Speaker 2: I don't know if this makes it more.
Speaker 1: Likely that they should think about Jimmy Butler trade or
less likely because of one of our best players isn't
going to be healthy at the same time, doesn't make
it easier to keep our heads above water while he's gone,
and then when he comes back, we just have this
three headed monster with Luka, Dancis, Kyrie Irving and Jimmy Butler.
Big threes to that degree are prohibitive, bordering on an
impossibility in the new salary cap climate, because we know
franchises aren't going to exist, you know, inside the Second
Apron or with these even before the Aprons the Second Apron,
you never saw these teams, very few that were just
in the luxury a tax until Kingdom.
Speaker 2: Come and repeatedly doing it.
Speaker 1: So there's always this because you would get more punitive
the more expensive you got. There's always going to be
a limit, and so I don't I probably would not
be off rip an advocate of the MAVs going this route.
Speaker 2: They don't need Jimmy Butler at full strength.
Speaker 1: I think that they've clearly established themselves as the second
best team in the West behind the Oklahoma City Thunder,
and they're a.
Speaker 2: Viable championship threat.
Speaker 1: If you're looking for that extra oomph, and you're saying, well,
Jimmy Butler fills a bunch of boxes because of what
he does defensively, and he gives us that third bankable
guy who can create for himself and others in the
half court in a playoff setting, whereas right now it's
do you count on let's say a Spencer Dinwoody giving
you a ton of minutes in that setting and then
those minutes being good.
Speaker 2: I don't know that you can necessarily say that that
I think would be the motivation.
Speaker 1: Coupled with all right, this makes it a little bit
easier or a lot easier, I should say, to exist
without Luka Dancic.
Speaker 2: The package.
Speaker 1: The package though, is it's it's honestly not like an
implausible amount, but when you're kind of looking at the
value that the heat would need to return there, so
I think it would be MO.
Speaker 2: It's gonna be like a three or four team deal.
Speaker 1: The one I have mapped out would be the mass
Yet Jimmy Butler, the Bulls get Tim Hardaway, Junior, jayden
Ivy and Daniel Gafford. The Pistons get Zach Lavine, Tory
Craig and Al Berks, Miami gets Simoni Fontechio, Maxi Kliba,
Naji Marshall, Klay Thompson Dallas's first round pick. There will
be seconds sprinkled in there, and it should be noted
I don't have it included here. Dallas Ken trade at
twenty thirty one, first two. But you just get into
just some really mind melting questions of are you giving
up a twenty thirty one first round pick for Jimmy
Butler that we the Mavericks know they're gonna keep him.
Speaker 2: He wants to be in Dallas, and.
Speaker 1: So that that behooves them to say, Okay, we can
trade for Jimmy Butler and no, we're gonna keep him.
But just the tenability of having to keep this thing
together and make upgrades from there, I will say on paper,
just look the cost the heat. They're getting like a
lot of short term money here, and you're not getting
a blue chip prospect, You're just getting a first round pick.
In some seconds, maybe the Klay Thompson addition is a
sticking point, and that like gets a little weird, like
can you finagle something like does Quentin Grimes have to
be included in this? Do they have any interest in
Olivia Maxen's prosper could he be on the move and
the deal you can talk about the merits of the
Bulls and the Pistons through this. I would trade I've
said this on the podcast, Jade and Ivy for Jade
and Ivy and salary for Zach Lavine. I would just
do it if I'm Detroit and if you're the Bulls
to get off that money while getting worse, and then
you get a flyer on Jade and Ivy and Daniel Gafford,
like if you think that Vooch isn't gonna be long
for there reuniting with Daniel gasps eff like this deal
is fine and Tim Hardaway Junior comes off the books
next year. So I think it's pretty easy to justify
from their end if maybe does Detroit or the Bulls like,
do they need some sort of second round compensation here?
Speaker 2: The heat would be the sticking point.
Speaker 1: They're getting a bunch of useful players, but is this
enough first round equity? I don't know what type of leverage,
like who is theoretically of the teams that have been
mentioned that Jimmy Butler wants to go to, are you
sure you're gonna get more. We'll get into that, maybe
from Golden State, maybe from Houston. I guess if you
value with Phoenix would technically give you for Dallas. Though
I will say on paper to have Luka Dancic, Jimmy Butler,
Kyrie Irving, PJ. Washington, and Derek Waivey in the same
rotation is kind of nuts, and by kind of I
mean definitely nuts. But your knifing into depth that has
made you insanely valuable this season. And the other thing
here too is you're really obliterating the size on your
front front line by trading away Maxi Kleiba and Daniel Gafford.
You could probably get into expanded permutations where is gafferd
or Kliba staying and you're using Dui Powell salary to
get out of there, and then there's an Olivia Max's
prosper But that would be even more complicated than this.
This was more to show everybody that the Mass can
trade for Jimmy Butler without having to include a PJ.
Washington or a Kyrie Irving, let alone a Luka Dancic.
But that's a tough sell for me if I'm Dallas,
and by the way, you're not giving up too much.
You're giving up a large part of your rotation. Plus
the first round equity is just whatever. So you're giving
up that one first round pick, and if the Heat
are going to accept that, I think you can deal
with all.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 1: There's probably there is a downgrade in spacing when you're
getting rid of Klay Thompson, even Maxi Kliba and then
going to Jimmy Butler, But just the talent upgrade there
itself is so huge, and so I think in a vacuum,
when you're looking at what the mass are giving up,
which is a lot of players who were useful to
them and a first round pick, it's I think it's reasonable.
I just can't get there if I'm Dallas, because if
you want to keep the bulk of your core intact,
it is just impossible without consolidating.
Speaker 2: Like even if you throw PJ.
Speaker 1: Washington into here, like there might be a different framework there,
but then you're losing one of your most valuable role
players and defenders that you have right now, and just
to spare keeping to like another true center, I might
even if you're gonna trade for Jimmy Butler, I think
I'd probably prefer this route.
Speaker 2: Figure out a way to, you know, go get another center.
Speaker 1: Maybe you signed Bismock Biumbo off the scrap heap there
and you can play PJ Washington even more in the middle.
If you're gonna go that route, I think this is
this is the direction that I would favor. It's just
a lot for the Mavericks and to have that kind
of seismic upheaval in the middle of the year, it's
always tough, but to do so when again at full strength,
you're one of the two best teams in the Western Conference.
I know Memphis and Houston are in front of them
and the standings. As we talk about this.
Speaker 2: Maybe it becomes more palatable.
Speaker 1: Like I said, if Luka Nancis is going to miss time,
but you could also argue that the depth there becomes
incredibly important. Point being though, if they want to like
this isn't a situation that needs to cost them Derek
Lively or Kyrie Irving or PJ Washington. It would be
a matter of what is Miami's asking price here, and
I think this offer.
Speaker 2: Could be beaten.
Speaker 1: I just don't know how of the teams that are
on Jimmy Butler's list. I really only think there's like
one of them that might be inclined to say, well,
we're definitely gonna come over the top and get this.
One of the next teams on Jimmy Butler's list, the
Golden State Warriors, they have the Demavericks deal was the
only one that I'm really like gonna super specifically outlay
because they were in a complicated situation. The Dubs, to me,
of all the teams on the list, make the most
sense when you're looking at do they have the incentive
and the motivation to go get Jimmy Butler, the plausibility
behind them building a package that Miami would accept, and
then Jimmy Butler wanting to go there. They're on his list.
You have Jonathan Minga, you have Brandon Perjemski. Moses Moody
can still be moved even though he's poison pilled. That's
still pretty easy contract to flip. You have Andrew Wiggins
as the salary anchor, that just that essentially has to happen.
I mean, you could get there, I think without including
Andrew Wiggins, but it's trading literally everybody that's not Draymond
Green And' Steph and literally is an over exaggeration, but
if Golden State really is determined to make the most
of what remains of the Steph window, this is probably
the most interesting landing spot to me.
Speaker 2: And it's tough giving up.
Speaker 1: Andrew Wiggins, but you can kind of still do so
because Jimmy Butler's a wing himself without obliterating your your
wing depth there. And so yes, it's gonna cost you,
like other money is like cavat Ludi going out is
Gary Payton the second going out. If you're making this
deal with the Buzzer, Dennis Shrewder could technically be going
out there. I think if the net cost is a
first like they have three trainable first round picks, the
cleanest structure would be twenty five twenty seven, and then
we're it would have to be twenty five and twenty
seven or twenty six and twenty eight, and then you
trade the twenty twenty thirty pick that you owe.
Speaker 2: Technically to Washington.
Speaker 1: But if you're the Heat that's acquiring this pick, that
Washington only gets that first rounder if it falls between
twenty one and thirty. So if you're the Heat looking
at the long term future of the Warriors six years,
five years down the line, and you're saying, we get
their first round pick in two thousand and thirty. If
it lands in the top twenty, you're banking on them
not being essentially a top ten team in the NBA
at that point. I think that's a reasonable gamble to make.
If it cost the Warriors two first round picks and
a kid, that'll throw kamingera pods in there, and then Wiggins.
You know, I don't know why, it's just because Jimmy
Butler's on the older end. Ideally, if you're giving up Wiggins,
what you are, it'd be Wiggins, a kid, and a
first And so is it like a twenty twenty seven first.
It's not going to be this year's first.
Speaker 2: Maybe if you.
Speaker 1: View it as well, like how valuable is this year's first?
The Matt I'm walking away if I'm the Warriors. If
it's more than two first Wiggins and a kid.
Speaker 2: I just don't what are you? I'm not I'm not a.
Speaker 1: Big believer in what we need to worry about what
we are after step Steph and Draymond retire, But more so, Steph,
you need to leave yourself with something, and it's not
like you're getting someone in the heart of their prime here.
It'd be different if it's Anthony Davis, who's age thirty one,
it's a completely different beast. When it's Jimmy Butler, who
is age thirty five. So if it's a younger star
that they're going after, I think that's when you can
talk yourself into like trading more. Nobody's aside from Steph.
If Miami watched Draymond, I'm considering it. I picked him
when we did our awards ballots. I think I had
him third.
Speaker 2: In defensive player. I don't think it was second.
Speaker 1: He is not, and the Warriors defense has not just
looked the same basically ever since we recorded that. So
that's gonna look like a because Grant didn't even have
him in his top three. That'll look like a mega
miss on my end. But for Golden State, I actually
liked the fit. You would appreciate if Jimmy Butler had
more of a higher volume jump shooting game, but his
ability to get to the foul line, the pressure he
puts on the basket, his value as a playmaker, his
value at the defensive end, and just the archetype of
player he is it makes it easier for you to
give up I'll say Andrew Wiggins and Jonathan Kminga in
the same trade and not feel the ramifications of that
positional or archetypal scarcity. And I think I don't think
Cominga is a wing anyway, so that's a different story here.
I'm probably making the move though. If it's two first
plus Wiggins and a kid, that's where it really gets.
It gets tough for me. But if you're holding on
to like if it's twenty five and twenty seven, so
you're kind of front loading this deal plus Kaminga plus
Wiggins and then there'll be other money to fill it in,
I'd probably still do it because then you still have
control over like your picks post twenty twenty seven. And
that's where this could get is that the balance for
both sides to me is two first Wiggins and a kid,
and you're just you're not getting any of those long
term first rounders. And if you're Miami, I mean you
owe your twenty twenty seven pick to Charlotte. Technically elsewhere
having a Warriors pick in that year that could be
like that could hold value. They're the team that I
think makes the sense we're having this discussion over the
off season. Maybe it's a different story, but of the
teams that are on the list, I think Golden State
by far and away makes the most sense. I just
don't know how motivated they are to make that deal
given their most recent slide. And you could take the
Dnis Shruder deal one of two ways. I argued it
was good that they acted early, and I still do
believe that on what should theoretically be one of their
bigger needs. But you could also view it through the
lens of, oh, this is they're not trying to make
the home run swing. Otherwise they would have waited because yes,
Dennis Shooter can be aggregated again, but it's not until
basically right before the trade deadline. So maybe there's like
a happy medium in between there. Who knows, I questioned
though Golden State's front office, and I did say this
at the time of the trade. I think it was
probably a good indicator of how invested they are in
the current timeline that they got Dennis Shruter, But I
don't know if they're so invested that they're prepared to
go after someone like.
Speaker 2: A Jimmy Butler.
Speaker 1: The next team up I think will be I don't
want to say everyone's favorite or most likely destination, but
when you're talking about this on TV or maybe a
national podcast, this isn't as awesome as the hard one
Knox NBA podcast.
Speaker 2: This is one example.
Speaker 1: Everyone probably gravitates towards Houston, which is just built to
make a consolidation trade. They're already they can't play all
the guys that were already seeing it. So you have
all these young guys and A'man Thompson, Reed Shepherd, Cam Whitmore,
Jabbari Smith, Ju and your Atari Easton, al Pertnshane Goud
and Jalen Green are trade eligible, but the deal becomes
a lot more complicated because of their poison pills. It
would be more straightforward. I think if you wanted to
go after Jimmy Butler, if it was something that happened
over the offseason as a sign and trade or an
opted in trade, and you're able to use Jayalen Green
as the primary salary anchor, still you can move one
of those guys.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: You can also match salaries without using those guys now,
because you have Fred VanVleet, you have Dylan Brooks, you
have those other they're expiring contracts where they have the
non guarantees on the back end. Looking at Jock Landell,
you have Jeff Green, Jayshawn Taates money. Those are all
just sort of middle of the rung where you can
ensure or Miami doesn't have to take back any bad contracts.
One Houston doesn't have a single bad contract on its books.
Jalen Green's is probably the worst deal on the books,
and that's at least short term enough to where it's
not a toxic contract. You would say we don't. There's
a bunch of different permutations here. I think in a
Jimmy Butler trade negotiation, if the Rockets want to do it,
I'm not giving up Reed Shepherd. I'm not giving up
Aman Thompson. I probably wouldn't want to give up Tarry Easton.
But there could be some redundancy there. It's I'm saying, hey,
we'll get to the money. And maybe that's Fred Vanvliet.
Maybe it's Dylan Brooks. Plus you know Jabari Smith, and
there is Cam Whitmore, and there you have Jock Landiel,
Jeff Green. You're expanding it to three and four teams
so that they could make some of the roster spot
math a little bit easier to work out, and then
I'm building it around picks. They can trade up to
four first round picks they have I think nine over
the next seven years. But because of their own draft
obligations you're really looking at they can promise four first
rounders right now, two first rounders and a kid plus
money like and I would say a non pro can
argue all these kids are primary kids. I love Jabari
Smith junior. That's just not somebody I'm throwing in. I
would if I'm Houston and I'm looking at it, I'm
going the route of money, no kids, and picks, and
that's what I'm offering the heat. And if you want
a kid like maybe Cam Whitmore at this point, just
because you question you question his viability with this team
long term even then, and I might be just romanticizing
the unknown here. The Rockets are good already, and Jimmy
Butler simultaneously addresses one of their bigger knees with out
without doing so. Their their half court offense, first chance,
your first chance offense, however you want to frame it,
It's still mediocre at best. But I do think that
if you're gonna go for someone who can help you there,
It's probably better that they're more of a floor spacer,
just because eventually you are. I mean, you have Alprinch
and goun for one, but eventually you are going to
want to expand. I would think the type of usage
you're getting out of Aman Thompson and Jimmy Butler, if
you're trying to keep him around long term, you could
make it work. But are you optimizing your roster with
Jimmy Butler or the supporting cast? Are they being or
your most important kids are they being optimized through the
acquisition of Jimmy Butler. You can make a case that
they won't be, or that some of them won't be,
and that's why you don't empty.
Speaker 2: The stock play on now.
Speaker 1: It's also kind of the mind, okay, Like you have
one of the best point differentials in the league against
top ten teams and you're contending for a top two
spot in the Western Conference. Yes, experience matters. Yes, we
need to see what their offense looks like in.
Speaker 2: The playoff setting.
Speaker 1: Get there, get the information, leave and then make adjustments.
So I'm not trading for Jimmy Butler. I from Houston
there's a shorter list of names that I think, Okay,
I'd roll the dice and I'd make the move now.
If it's a darn fox, if it's a Lamello ball,
just to name two, I'm looking at that and saying, okay,
I think they are a good enough fit. And you
look at their age makes it easier certainly that I
will act now. But with Jimmy Butler, it helps you
in negotiations because Miami doesn't have a ton of lever,
and you could argue maybe Jimmy Butler doesn't have a
ton himself. I do think he is more than Miami
in this situation. So if the cost is just that
appealing to where it's money picks and like a kid
of like of Houston choosing, let's say, maybe maybe Houston
Watson to be a reach sheepherd for all I know
they don't, but I'm just saying consider it. I just
I don't think Houston's gonna win the title as currently constructed.
That's okay where they're at in their timeline without making
this move. And look, they're not gonna probably win the
title if they acquire Jimmy Butler anyway, even if you
think he's an ideal fit, which, look, there's a case
to be made, and if if the cost is just
can't miss, then we talk. But like these mid season acquisitions,
they almost always unless you're talking about one of the
most scalable players in the NBA offensively, which I do
think requires a level a skill from beyond the arc
or at least as a jump shooter away from the ball,
that Jimmy Butler just does not have. It takes time
to hash out, and so you're almost making a trade
mid season with your eye toward future seasons. That's tough
to do when you're one this good, it's even as
Houston is. It's too even harder to do when your
timeline with Jimmy Butler isn't really open ended anyway, Like,
how many more years can you count on Jimmy Butler
being even at all star level. Let's say, which I
think is just reasonable, the rest of this year, next year,
then it's probably just ify after that. Like if you
want to say this season and two more, I'll allow it.
I mean, can I disallow it? If I can, I'm
probably gonna hit that Betle button. But you can't, like
you can't even guarantee that, which is the problem.
Speaker 2: So I don't love.
Speaker 1: It'd be different if Houston was just sort of twiddling
their thumbs and they're hovering in no man's land.
Speaker 2: But they've been a good team this year. They're not
a finished product.
Speaker 1: I don't view them as a Tier one title contender,
and I don't think they're Tier two just because I
think Okac and Cleveland and Boston might even just stand
alone in Tier one, or maybe it's just Boston and
Okay see alone and Tier one. But to be a
Tier three at worst title contender, to be not just
in the discussion with the Phoenix Suns, the Denver Nuggets,
the Minnesota Timberwolves, but to be in front of those
teams like that's a big deal without having made any
wholesale changes.
Speaker 2: So I don't I'm.
Speaker 1: Not opposed to it if I'm Houston, but I would
bet against it. And if I was running Houston. No,
I'm not making a Jimmy Butler trade this season. The
next team up, the Phoenix Suns. They're another team where
it's just we should go through the trade framework because
there's only like you're trading Bradley Beal and you're twenty
thirty one. First, there's no negotiating. You give the Heat
everything that you have, which is that deal would look
like the one that I mocked up. You have Jimmy
Butler going to the Suns, the Heat apt Bradley Beal.
The Sons is twenty thirty one first, the Sons is
twenty thirty one second, and then two more seconds via
the Nuggets that the Sun zone. I think they're twenty
six and twenty thirty one. You also do need to
send out another player. Letsen alt Birks to the Sixers there.
He should have no problem with this. They're getting Jimmy
Butler out of the Eastern Conference and they're just kind
of bolstering their guard depth. You can take him into
the minimum exception doesn't need to be the Sixers you
want to send him to Detroit, It could be It
could basically be any team. It's easier if they have
an open roster spot to do it, and I don't
think you're ideally eyeing a team that wouldn't ask for
compensation for taking on Alec Brioks.
Speaker 2: That's the deal.
Speaker 1: But Beal's owed one hundred and ten million dollars over
the next two seasons and he has a no trade class.
You need to get him to wave it, and I
think he might. I know that people have said that
he won't.
Speaker 2: I think he might.
Speaker 1: I think the bigger hurdle is probably convincing the Heat
to accept this. You're not getting any sort of immediate return,
You're you're basically looking at this as well, we're really
short in the shit out of Phoenix's future. And look,
that's a smart bet to make because they're getting older
with this trade, and it's just you look at a
team built around all of a sudden, Kevin Drant, Devin Booker,
Jimmy Butler and no picks. What are they going to
be in twenty and thirty one? I would arguably like
maybe they've recoued some value and maybe even some of
their own picks via Houston if they traded Devin Booker
by that point. It's a good bet to make. But
you have to value Bradley Beal through a prism level.
We're still trying to be competitive because we don't we're
not flush with our own picks. We're not flushed with
all these future picks either. After Jimmy Butler trade, we
think Beal can help us at least be mediocre. Maybe
he's even better in Miami and healthier in Miami than
he's been in Phoenix, and we're just sort of treading
water there and we don't think the drop off will
be that big. Going from Jimmy Butler to Bradley Beal,
that's quite the leap to make, and I don't think that.
I mean, Butler's giving you a list where I think
there's probably of the four, I'm gonna say that the
only team that feels like it's an absolute no go
for it's probably between Houston and Dallas, and it might
be both of them. Dallas feels like more of the
no go. We need to see what ends up going
on with Luka Doncics, but even then, it's what's got
them here is just like all of a sudden, they're
more dynamic and deeper on all and what's happening going
from that package we outlaid to Jimmy Butler. Maybe you're
just as dynamic on offense, but your depth certainly isn't there,
and you're smaller. Because part of the appeal of Dallas
is just they're fucking huge, and Jimmy Butler's not small
but when you're trading two bigs that are in your rotation,
when they're healthy, on top of Klay Thompson, on top
of Nachie Marshall, who has great size, it's I would
say Dallas is probably more of a non starter than Houston,
just because there's always the chance that if Houston doesn't
have to give up any of their youngsters and it's
maybe it's just picks in salary, that they could probably
talk themselves into it. So I don't think that Jimmy Butler,
what I'm saying is giving you a list that is
restrictive enough to the point where he's basically saying it's
Phoenix or bust. And if he eventually comes out and
says that, or if Golden State and Houston and Dallas,
I'll say, WHOA, no way, fuck this, We're not doing it.
Maybe you just look at this and say, okay, we'll
take it. Like, what is I think you have to
look at it this way?
Speaker 2: What is this really.
Speaker 1: Damaging about Miami's plans moving forward? You could say that
beal contract is toxic if you get him to also
waive his no trade, like just retract his no trade clause.
In general's part of this trade. It's probably an easier sell.
But if you're the Heat, you become bad enough, maybe
Beal will be more flexible with his no trade clause
because they'll just want to be on a good team
at that point. I don't know, it's a big bet
to make and to walk away with nothing of real immediacy.
I mean, it'd be really funny if there is a
team in the East that would take on Alc Burks
and then maybe just send the Heat like a good second,
because they're saying, well, like this gets Jimmy Butler out
of the East, and so we're not worried about Miami
being good necessarily with him, but what if they did
trade him somewhere on the Eastern Conference? That could be
good notably though no Eastern Conference team makes his list.
So and you go through that, and we will because
we're gonna go through dark horses, and it's well, what
team is coming over the top there? I just don't
I don't think some people have laughed this scenario off
more than I think they should.
Speaker 2: I give it some merit.
Speaker 1: I do think there will ultimately be more attractive offers
out there if it was Phoenix or bust for Jimmy
and maybe again, maybe he gets to that point. It's
probably an easier sell or what we haven't mentioned what
Phoenix could do. Is there a way that you can
use Grayson Allen is the name probably that gets you
any first round equity. I don't see a team there
that's going to give you a first round pick for
just any of the Suns' standalone value players. I would
assume Grace and Allen still comes the closest.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 1: I can't see it happening with Royce O'Neill. You're definitely
not getting one for Yusef Nurkic. I don't think anyone
if they just said, hey, we'll trade ohso Igadaro or
Ryan Done to someone for a first maybe that's the
mechanics by which you get it done. Are you willing
to do that if someone was gonna give you a
first for Ryan Done? I don't know that it's gonna
you drafted Ryan Done at number twenty eight. The cost
control there and him being more of a known commandie
than maybe of a future pick. Could there be someone
that looks at that and says, yeah, okay, hey we'll
do that. That would be interesting. So if you're somehow
getting a twenty twenty five first round pick for Ryan Done,
does that and it's it's not going to be a
good first round pick. But as Miami, are you all
of a sudden just because he's because Phoenix can't aggregate salaries,
so it can't be Ryan Dunn and Bradley Beal.
Speaker 2: I just don't.
Speaker 1: I don't know what team is giving you the first
for Ryan Done. It's just so I don't think you're
gonna get one from Indiana for it.
Speaker 2: It has to be a team that.
Speaker 1: Is somewhat good.
Speaker 2: I like, that's that's really interesting.
Speaker 1: I don't know if there's maybe Okay, would Dallas do
I mean, then they're facilitating Jimmy Butler, Like, oh, we'll
give you our twenty twenty five pick for a flyer.
Speaker 2: I'm done. You could just defend his ass off.
Speaker 1: But then it's, oh, we just helped Like that's also
the Cup like a thing of all this is, oh, okay,
that just helped Phoenix get Jimmy Butler. Why would we
do that as Dallas specifically, if you're a team the
West that doesn't view Phoenix as a rival, I guess
if you're so good.
Speaker 2: If your doubts she's like, oh Phoenix with.
Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler or whatever, like, they'll just be they'll be
justice fragile, they'll be just as shallow.
Speaker 2: This is fine, but if you're a.
Speaker 1: Team that maybe doesn't view yourself on Jimmy Butler, like
that's when you look at it. But now you're removing
a lot of just the good teams from the West
from the equation, and I just I mean, look at
it if you're I mean, maybe the Knicks would give
you the their Washington first for Ryan Dunn, but that's
not a guaranteed first, super complicated.
Speaker 2: I mean, would Boston do it? Like they just have
some of.
Speaker 1: These other first floating around it. So yeah, we'll get
another cost controlled wing here. We might end up trading
Jalen Brown or maybe at Drew Allide at some point anyway,
cut the bill is that like could that be? And
then Boston says, okay, hey, we're getting Jimmy Butler out
of the East.
Speaker 2: We don't care.
Speaker 1: We don't view anyone as our peers anyway. That is interesting.
I don't know if it's I mean, in Boston, you
can find somewhere to send Jayden Springer, like, just they
can't be Phoenix, but you can find somewhere to shape
Trey Jayden's make that happen. Boston would be so they
would trade their first round pick this year, which is
gonna be number twenty nine, So like number twenty nine,
twenty eight, twenty seven. Are you saying, okay, bottom five
first round pick for Ryan Done? I mean Phoenix, just
you're if you're Phoenix.
Speaker 2: You're not doing that in a vacuum.
Speaker 1: You're doing it because you can partner that first and
maybe are you also getting Boston has seconds like that
would be that might be the most compelling case for Phoenix.
And then could you get other stuff for Grayson Allen
or Royce? Maybe seconds like that is probably the way
because I think you need something immediate to send Miami.
So if you're getting a twenty twenty five first, Boston
could also trade a twenty twenty six first if they
want to protect the hell out of it. It's like,
would you do that for Ryan Done? Maybe maybe some
people don't think he's shown enough, but as a flyer
and you're Boston and you're going to give up, let's
just be if the season ended today, you're giving up
up the number twenty eight pick, So let's just pencil
it in there. If anything, it might be worse because
maybe they finished with a better record than Cleveland or
Oklahoma City number twenty eight and Bradley Beal on the
twenty thirty one Sons pick in all the seconds for
Jimmy bul I just that I do think that's probably
the best path for Phoenix to Can we trade someone
else that doesn't necessarily have to be Ryan Dunn to
get a more immediate pick that we can send Miami,
And that's the way that your trade offer becomes more intriguing.
Those are the teams on Jimmy Butler's list. There will
be some dark horses.
Speaker 2: Someone will emerge.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know who, but I think
there are a bunch of teams that are worth talking about.
I think we'll begin with Let's begin with the Spurs.
I think that they're probably most commonly mentioned as a
dark horse. I don't hate it, like there's there's a
value just having these steadying, really good veterans on the
team around Victor Wembayama, around Devin Vessel, Steph Castle up
and it can clearly help I just I don't hate
his fit in San Antonio. He gives you value at
both ends of the floor. I would just prefer someone
who either needs to be on the ball even less
than a Jimmy Butler, or is just a better floor
space er away from it than Jimmy Butler, because there's
going to come a time where you want to expand
Steph Castle's role. And I know Victor Wemenyam accounts as
a floor spacer, but like when you have Victor Wemanyama,
it would be cool if you could hit the five
out button more frequently than the Spurs can, And that's
to say at all, which they really just can't and
they could, but it's more of a stretch to get there, man,
though they have contracts to make it happen. You don't
have to give up Steph Castle or Devin Vessel and
you get to keep Wemby clearly, like if you're giving
up enough first round picks to where Zach Collins is
out of there as well, you have Harrison Barge with
Kelden Johnson too, I don't hate it.
Speaker 2: And if we're talking.
Speaker 1: Two first round picks, if it's one first round pick,
if it's just you get Atlanta's twenty twenty seven pick
and we're done, or is it do you want that
Bulls pick and we're done? And addition to maybe you're doing,
you're giving some flyers on is it a Blake Wesley.
I don't know how much interest that he would have
in him, but if that's the structure, you might just
you might as well just from a sheer value play. Okay,
it costs us one future first round pick in salary.
You're not necessarily married to Keldon Johnson or Harrison Barnes.
It's certainly not Zach Collins. If it's too it's got
to be like somewhat weak of a second one to
where you're protecting the hell out of it. But if
you're giving up one Hawks pick and salary and an
additional first I fit protected first, I think it's worth considering.
From san Antonio's end, I just don't think the fit
is seamless enough to say, hey, go do this now.
And it's also look, it's a weird time to do
it now. You need to know that Jimmy Butler's staying.
Of course, you're eleventh in the West and so you're
hovering around five hundred. Do you view Jimmy Butler as
the impetus that is gonna because you're not really making
that trade just for a crack at the play in.
It's Hey, we want to bridge the gap, which is
only we're two losses behind sixth place. So when we
get Jimmy Butler, you're saying, we're going to be excuse me,
we're going to be better than the Warriors, the Timberwolves,
the Suns, the Clippers, and the Lakers, just that minimum,
Like those are the teams in front of you right now.
And if you also think, oh, we'll be better than
Denver and maybe we don't necessarily trust Memphis for some
reason or whatever. I think the Spurs can talk themselves
into it. It would be cost dependent for sure. Other teams,
the Clippers probably deserve just like a little bit of
an honorable mention here Kawhi for Jimmy Butler and Alec Burks.
That just works straight up. I'd be curious like why,
and you're not. I'm not if I'm the Clipper, I'm
not giving up any first roun equity for it. Because
Qui Leonard is the better player when he's healthy, is
never healthy. And if you're Miami, that's a lot to
take on when you're looking at Kuhi's future salary. If
you're the Clippers, you're saying, well, maybe we're getting an
immediate downgrade and we're getting older. When we're looking at
both these players are available. Both these players are not
available right now, like Kawhi Leonard has not been available.
Speaker 2: So I think the Clippers could say.
Speaker 1: Well, now we know this doesn't work out with Butler,
he's a short term contract and he's probably we know
he's not gonna be on as long as an extension
as Kawhi Leonard. After this, I think there would be
some I think there would be truth serum. You give
their front office truth serum. They might even say that
they want to do this deal. I just Miami would
have to really think that we're gon Kawhi he's gonna
come back and and he can only play in fifty
eight games this season with him and Bam and Tyler
Hero like, we're gonna make it happen. It just it works.
It won't happen, but it works. Sacramento. I just that's
another team where it's right I'd like to see. I
think Jimmy Butler certainly fits the defensive archetype that they
can need, and you are going to have to give
up DeMar de Rosen and or Malik Monk in that deal.
I'm assuming it'd be one of Damar and Kevin Herder,
and then you figure out the rest of the money
and pick compensation not giving up Keegan Murray. If you
get to keep Keegan Murray and you have Daron Fox
and Simonis and you're bringing in Butler, and you kind
of just know that that's your core. I don't hate it,
but I would like to see again.
Speaker 2: Better shooting on the offensive end now.
Speaker 1: And you're going to invariably downgrade your spacing at this
because even if you're only giving a one of Monk
or Herder, that's going to be a downgrade for your spacing.
And I know people don't want to see the Kings
who are in twelfth place rush into anything massive.
Speaker 2: I mean, if it's Devin Carter in a pick, I'll
probably do it it.
Speaker 1: Just honestly, I'm probably doing And what is the you know,
Greg Wissinger posted this on Twitter or Blue Sky. I
think it was Blue Sky, and he was spot on
with it because we got a lot of comments on
the Little kingspiel that I did a few days ago
of that the Kings just need to rebuild, and Greg
Wissinger's point of the King's Herald, they do fantastic work.
He does great work, love one of the best files
just on NBA Twitter general. He's funny as hell. But
Greg had said basically to the effect of, so you
don't trust this front office to make the right moves
to maximize this roster or to win now, but you
trust them to strip it down and start over the
right way. If you're arguing for King's rebuild, I think
you also need to be arguing for a clean sweep
where it's new front office, which then means you're getting
a new head coach. If that's the path you want
the Kings to travel down, then fine. I still think
the team is good enough to salvage or to better optimize.
And I'm not training dearon Fox right now. If you
want to look at this as its title or bust,
that's how I follow the NBA, it's how I cover it,
that's how I root for teams. I think your opinion's legitimate,
but I don't think you're not gonna sell me on
the King certainly like a mid season.
Speaker 2: Pivot into a rebuild.
Speaker 1: You're also not gonna sell me on maybe for a
specific player. I don't think they should be giving up
multiple first to try and maximize what's less of this season.
If it's Devin Carter and a first and the Heat, look,
the Heat might be interested into Martin Rosen where they
could say how much of an offensive drop off is
that for us? And Damar is still good, So we're
kind of getting Devin Carter and a pick, and but
Kevin Hurder would help them, e Leak Monk would help them.
I'm who would you prefer to. You probably want to
keep Malik Monk in that scenario to maximize who's like
an on ball type shooter, too up saying you want
to give up they were all ready like you're giving
you're bringing back another on ball creator.
Speaker 2: But it's probably for the Kings that's better.
Speaker 1: As if the two main outgoing salaries are DeMar de
Rosen and Kevin Hurder, I think make the most sense.
Maybe you could talk me into Malik Monk, certainly not
over DeMar I mean having him the bonus and Jimmy
and Fox on the same team.
Speaker 2: That's just forget about redundancy. That's overkilled.
Speaker 1: To me, I'm probably doing if I'm sackling up because
I don't think that's all right.
Speaker 2: You gave up.
Speaker 1: You have one pick that's oh to Atlanta this year,
which you're trying to make sure it conveys. Now you
have to give up a twenty twenty seven pick and
that's going to have to have language that Wollt's prided
on this pick conveying to Atlanta, so could stretch out
into twenty eight twenty nine. It's not nothing, and Jimmy
Butler's older, But do you believe in dearon Fox and
Bonus specifically and Keith Murray or not? And if you're
saying no, you never should have gotten to this point
in the first place of having Tomorta Rosen on your team,
of them just paying Malik Monk, So that's where would
be at with that. They also have like maybe for
some reason, maybe they want to keep Devin like on
Ellis if you don't think if you think he's gonna
play even less even though Kevin Herder and let's say
I'm just saying.
Speaker 2: Kevin Herder and Damar are leaving.
Speaker 1: If you think somehow ke On els Is gonna play
even less with Jimmy Butler coming in. He's attractive as hell,
And I would just argue, I'm teams, I'm calling the
Kings about ke On Ellis.
Speaker 2: I would give up a first round pick for ke
On Ellis.
Speaker 1: I the salary is cheap, is as hell, and like
it's not going to be, I guess a great first
round pick, but I'm giving up more for ke On
Ellis and I am for like a Ryan, Like, yeah,
Boston would give up their first round pick for Kill,
That's not even a question. There's a question when it's
Ryan done. So they have a bunch of different permutations
and if everything is spending way longer on the Kings,
what isn't that the story of this season for us
on this podcast, putting way longer on the Kings than.
Speaker 2: I thought I would.
Speaker 1: I'm doing it like I don't hate the Jimmy Butler
fit there. Now you need to know that because they
just have so much. They have optionality of trade packages,
which I think that people are also sort of underrating here.
You need to know he's staying and if he's not,
you didn't think og Or Pascal Siakam's gonna say, why
would Jimmy Butler be any different. He's at a point
where he just might be following the money so and
like the Kings will be good with him? Is the
other thing here too? I would just keep my eye.
And they've been mentioned him in the slightest. If Jimmy
Butler's want to expand his list, I think that's a
big part of this. If there wasn't a list and
this was just Jimmy Butler wants to be traded, maybe
they crop up. I don't have any other I look
at the Kings and the Spurs as the dark horses,
Whereas all right, like I not only can I talk
myself into this, not only can I make a case
for this, but I am gonna watch those teams. The
rest of these teams get a little interesting, Indiana just
they're not a team that's gonna pay a third star. However,
Jars Walker, Benn mcmathrin, they have future first that they
could trade. They have Miles Turner's expiring money, they have
the Obi topping contract. They can get there, and Jimmy
Butler makes a lot of sense on that.
Speaker 2: Team, even with his age.
Speaker 1: Are you planning on paying him Siakam and Halibert and
moving forward. That is that opens up all sorts of
questions where it's well, they're eventually.
Speaker 2: Gonna want to move off dam hard.
Speaker 1: Then hey, if I'm the Pacers, I'm only he's making
the call, and what's his interest in staying here long term?
And I think what helps about him being older is
that maybe you're not looking at him and saying, oh,
this guy needs a max deal as part of his
next contract, where or you can float it for one
year if he's gonna pick up his player option to
make that fifty two point four number. But if you're
just kind of looking at this and saying, well, we're
worried that he wants his next deal to start at
max money, it's it's gonna be short term enough to
where I'm probably like, all right, like is that this
is a kind of the end of the world. But
you want to give up that much stuff for two
years worth of Jimmy Butler and having a you know,
a starting salary of what is it going to be
thirty five.
Speaker 2: Percent of the cap next year is like a mountain.
Speaker 1: So we're fifty four point one million would be his
max it's only a little bit extra compared to what
his player option is. If they won't do it, they
should absolutely be in on.
Speaker 2: Like that's a call.
Speaker 1: You're making and saying, Okay, what's the what chance do
we have of him wanting to stay year beyond this season?
Because Haliburt and Siakam and Jimmy as just your baseline,
you're giving.
Speaker 2: Up a lot of stuff to get.
Speaker 1: Like when we're talking about maybe even relative to the
Kings or the Spurs, or when we were talking about
the Rockets, this is more in line with Oh, the
players were sending out like they're they're gonna just because
we know Miles Turner were almost assuredly be involved in there.
Speaker 2: And if he's not, I mean.
Speaker 1: You've step laddered, You've you've finessed the shit out of
that trade package, and you've given up a bunch of
first round picks and then all of you, maybe not
a bunch, but you've given up first round picks and
Toppin and Nie Smith and Bennet mcmather and Jared like
how many teams are involved in that? But I'm what
I'm saying is so either way, this is more comparable
to the Warriors package or the Mavericks package that we
were discussing. Because you're giving up I would guess probably
two players at least that matter to your rotation right now.
Speaker 2: I'm still looking at.
Speaker 1: It, though, And if I thought, honestly, if I thought
they had the guts to do it, I would put
the Pacers.
Speaker 2: On this list.
Speaker 1: I just don't think different office has the guts, and
I won't criticize them for it, because what is the
you can't give up with the Pacers would need to
give up and then have Jimmy Butler walk. I think
what team would be a good example. I think if
you're if you're the Spurs and you gave up in
Atlanta's twenty twenty seven and then the rest is just
it wasn't just fill er salary, but it was the
Barns maybe a like a small like a protected first
round pick, and then Jimmy Butler left.
Speaker 2: You probably say, hey, we tried.
Speaker 1: Even in the realm of the Kings and giving up
that first and Devin Carter, let's just say, with that
money of a Demartros and Kevin Hurder, you could probably say.
Speaker 2: You can't and they won't.
Speaker 1: But it's not on like a cataclysmically bad level if
you're Indie and you've given up Jarres Walker and Ben
mcmathern and a first in addition to Miles Turner and
then other stuff. So some combination of Turner, Mathrin, Walker
and picks in addition to other stuff, which might include
Aaronie Smith. Yeah, that would be a bad look. And
that's just why I can't put them on this list.
I've thought a lot about Atlanta. I kind of love
Jimmy Butler there. He would beef up a defense that
has overachieved this season. And I think that they have
the contracts necessary and even the pick flexibility necessary. They
do have picks headed to San Antonio, but twenty twenty
six is a swap and this year's pick is headed
to San Antonio. So maybe like that's a pick san
Antonio could throw in as well. But you have twenty
five and twenty seven going to San Antonio in twenty six,
you don't have control over. You just put like a
distant first round. You put the Lakers pick on the table,
so they have Los Angeles' pick this year. And I'm
my point being, you have the salary machinations to say
we don't have to give up Zachary Resichet or Diyson
Daniels as part of this deal, and we know they're
not going to give up Jalen Johnson or Trey Yon,
And so you get there with all right, does it
make sense to use some combination of Capella and Hunter
and Bogdanovich and a Kung Wu. Larry Nan Junior is expiring,
they have a bunch of other keys would need to
be roped in. I think there'd be a team that
would just take on Larry and Junior if they have
their mL available or they're sending out a smaller contract there.
Speaker 2: I think there are plenty of teams that would do
something like that.
Speaker 1: Would you give up a second first round pich just
Kobe Buffkin doesn't have a ton of standalone value right now,
especially after the injury. That second first round pick you're
giving up though, is in twenty twenty nine?
Speaker 2: Is it?
Speaker 1: Do we get there with swaps where oh, it's a
twenty twenty eight swap plus the Lakers pick. I don't
know if that's enough relative to like because the heat
when you're looking at Capella or Hunter Bogdanovitch, maybe they
really like a cong Wu and they would value him there.
I'm making this deal without giving up reesa che or Daniels.
Speaker 2: That is, if I'm in landed. That's how I'm approaching this.
Speaker 1: And I just don't He's not gonna do a ton
for your space, saying if you're sending out Hunter and Bogdanovich,
you have to keep one of them, like you are
maybe compromising your own floor balance. And Trey Young hasn't
had their greatest shooting season. They're just in such a
weird spot where he's older and they still have this
number one pick. And Dyson Daniels, who's not even twenty
two yet. They're all over the place, but they don't
own their own picks. There's incentive to just say, we
see kind of an opening here in the East. It
feels like there's a power vacuum after for some reason
Boston or in Cleveland. And I know a lot of
people think that the Knicks have kind of filled it already.
That's debatable. Orlando's injured, Milwaukee's old, the heat are disintegrating.
Look at what's happened in Indiana. If you're Atlanta, there
like there's an interesting window of opportunity here and you
could probably convince yourself that, oh, hey, Jimmy Butler makes
us the third or fourth best.
Speaker 2: Team in the Eastern Conference.
Speaker 1: That'd be a team I'd want them and the Pacers
in my camp because I root for chaos, of I
would love to see these teams go after Jimmy Butler.
Two other teams worth mentioning Denver can get there. If
it's Porter and Nausey and Shars or the salaries, and
then it's or going to give you a swap in
twenty six and then a twenty thirty one conditional first
round unprotected pick. It's prided on your other obligations conveying.
I just there need to be another team roped into
that deal. So how are you compensating that team to
take on Let's say Scharwich. Would Miami be willing to
send out some type of second or something small to
do that?
Speaker 2: And if you can't, they.
Speaker 1: Can make their package a lot more attractive by including
a youngster. And so maybe I wouldn't sleep on the Nuggets.
If it's like, okay, Julian Strather that twenty thirty one
pick and then Michael Porter Junior going to Miami, you
certainly don't sleep on them. If you think it's like Peyton,
it's not brown. If it is Peyton Watson going to Miami,
that makes them more attractive. Just now, Okay, you have
Jimmy Butler and Aaron Gordon weird fit, and you're worried
about the tenability of your core, and you're replacing Michael
Porter Junior who's making like he's making substantial money, but
he's on the books next year for thirty eight point three.
Jimmy Butler's probably making more than that, So you're increasing
your payroll obligations while arguably making you know, I think
Jimmy Butler probably checks more of the right boxes than
a zach Lavine who's more of a one way player.
But the functional perimeter shooting from zach Lavine, Jimmy Butler
still helps you out in the Nikole Jokich list minutes,
and he's probably more he's certainly more of an intuitive
fit next to Jamal Murray. But you're making yourself more expensive,
and the spacing with Jimmy Butler and Aaron Gordon on
before could get really iffy. And we're worried about this
team not taking enough threes as it is, even though
their offensive efficiency can be through the roof.
Speaker 2: It's okay.
Speaker 1: Now your only high volume three point shooter on this team,
but especially if you're getting rid of Strawther too is
Jamal Murray, and I guess we have to throw Nakohl
jokicch into that equation.
Speaker 2: At that stage.
Speaker 1: I however, if it's MPJ twenty thirty one in Strother
and you're getting off of Naxi and Shards in the process,
I mean.
Speaker 2: I'm probably doing it. Am I not doing it?
Speaker 1: I just I don't know what Denver because you have
to pay Brown and Watson coming out, I mean gets
Jimmy Butler's short term enough to where it's okay, we're
shrinking our window. But maybe we view this as okay
after next seasons, when more wholesale decisions are coming together,
but where we're gonna keep this core together as it
currently constructed through next season. Anyway, let's just say throwing
Jimmy Butler on there for you know, a few extra
dollars even though it's more than that. Maybe it doesn't,
but you're giving up your twenty thirty one pick in
the process, and that's really the like there's a huge
age gap there. We're talking Michael Porter Junior is not
even twenty seven. Jimmy Butler's thirty five, so seven eight
years there, it's not a no brainer. I don't think
it's a package that would necessarily interest Miami, But if
Peyton Watson's on the table, I'm probably walking away if
I'm Denver. If you're Miami, that becomes more attractive. But
Denver could do it, and they're kind of all over
a place, and I don't know what to make of
this team anymore, but I would MPJA twenty thirty one,
and I sorry to nausey, like if that's getting it done,
especially if Miami just wants to spike Jimmy. Fuck, I
might just make that deal without even knowing if Jimmy
Butler's coming back. You can't because you gave up twenty
thirty one and Michael Porter Junior. But it would be
more flexible then moving forward financially should he just leave.
So I don't think Denver is a realistic threat, but
I don't know, Like, if we're gonna give Phoenix the
time of day, Denver's best offer in theory, and it
would They're another team where I think you'd have to
rope in like Phoenix. There needs to be a third
and maybe fourth team involved. I don't think we could
discount it if it was on the table. And finally,
I'd be very interested in the Grizzlies just you can
the money that they have to give up to get there,
and they're not a team that's going to be wants
to be expensive moving forward. But like Brandon Clark, Marcus Smart,
and Luke Canard, like that gets you to the money
for Jimmy Butler. Now they're not gonna They're also probably
gonna want to include so Marcus Smart, Lukenard and Brandon Clark.
They're probably gonna try and get off of John Contar
there because they want to stay. I would argue, especially
with Jimmy Butler's next deal and they're thinking about Jaron
Jackson Junior's next contract.
Speaker 2: They're not paying the tax this year.
Speaker 1: Could you rope in a team that would take on,
you know, a John Conchar maybe even a like the
Pistons have the cap space where if Miami wants pure
expiring money, can we send what can we give the Pistons?
Do we give the Pistons a first round pick to
take on Brandon Clark and John Conchar and they send
Tim Hardaway Junior to Miami, and that just like now
Miami gets an expiring contract, it probably cost them up
like a first they wouldn't you rather just get the
two first though I'd probably take on that money if
i'm them. However, then you get into some roster spot lingo.
But if you include John Conchar in there, and then
let's say the Grizzlies take back Alec Burks, I have
them like taking on under three million dollars. So it
would be if you could just find another team to
take on Alec Burks, which I think a team would
be willing to do for nothing, you can make this
trade well, being basically a net even by staying out
of the tacks.
Speaker 2: Let's say, and now you've.
Speaker 1: Kept Desmond Baine and Jared Jackson Junior and John Moran
and you own all your own first round picks moving forward.
So two first round picks in this package?
Speaker 2: Is that enough?
Speaker 1: I don't know, because of the way that Marcus Smart's
money will be viewed by the Heat specifically but certainly
league wide, you probably if you're getting Jimmy Butler, I
don't think that I know he's injured. I would include
Gg Jackson, Or I would include Vince Williams Junior Or
Scottie Pippen Jr. Like I don't know that i'd give
up two of those guys, but I would give up
Vince Williams or Gg Jackson. Like if you're getting Jimmy Butler,
you can give up one of those guys. And so
if you're also getting off all this other money in
the process, and you believe in Zach Edie and Jared
Jackson Junior and Jake la Rave and santi Al Dama,
you're not like necessarily too small after Like I know
you're giving up one of your primary. Like everybody having
Grizzlies is a primary. So there's like your three primaries
that everyone just matters a shit ton on the Grizzlies
is the way they play. I would want to see
this team do it. I'm not giving like I'm being
very strict with it because.
Speaker 2: I don't think that he'd have this kind of leverage.
I will give you picks.
Speaker 1: Jalen Wells, No, and you're getting off of money you
probably don't want. I don't like, I don't think they want.
Conchar has two more years left on his deal. They
probably they're fine with Clark. I'd probably say he's a
net neutral contract at a round mid level money, so
you're giving him to Detroit, but it's not as necessarily
the most negative asset. Smart's Money's kind of a hang
up here because he has Lukenard's expiring. This a big deal,
I would worry.
Speaker 2: I think this.
Speaker 1: Simultaneously makes the Grizzlies a more threatening half court first
chance offense. And then it's all right, well, you're trading
away some guys who conceptually space the floor. So we
certainly know if lukenar but conceptually refers to a Marcus
Smart a John Conchar, so I'm still doing it. But
like now you're towing a very fine financial line. I
just it's so short term. I'm almost looking at any
Jimmy Butler deal through the next two years, especially if
I'm a team that's operating on a longer window, whereas
if it doesn't matter as much if you're a Golden
State as an example, that what is there other than
the next years. But for Memphis, like they have enough
cost controlled guys where I'm looking at it, I just
don't know what are we thinking? Two first and a
Vince Williams because you're getting off of Smart and Concours
part of this, and then it's Clark and it's Canard again.
It's it's hurting your The framework ends up being Smart
Canard contra Clark, and then what else do they have
to attach to that package to make it work? And
once it moves beyond two picks and a Vince Williams,
that's maybe where I'm giving it pause. And I know
the Grizzlies aren't going to make this deal, but I
think they would be. It'd be a fun as hell fit.
You have Desmond Bane defended well this year is and
having the best offensive season, but between him and John Morant,
Jared Jackson Junior or Jimmy Butler, that's still all this
depth leapt over where oh Zachi Edy and Santiel Dama
and Jake Laavia are still on this team. Look Jake Claaravia,
I know they decline his team option, but maybe he's
someone who has value to someone. Santi Aldama will have
value to someone even as he's approaching free agency. You
can't trade Jay Huff, so I don't think and I
don't think his restriction next.
Speaker 2: Buyers this year. I have to look.
Speaker 1: I don't know what he's trade eligible bye, is my point.
But like you just have, you have all these different
forms of assets, players and picks that you could choose.
They're so good that they're not being mentioned among these teams.
They're also not on Jimmy Butler's list. At the same time,
it's sort of like they're a team where because they
are older than Houston and you're not talking about giving
away all these young players. And I advocated for Houston
to at least consider it, but you're not looking at
They're finding a way to play everybody. Injuries have certainly helped.
A consolidation might not be the worst thing in the
world for them. So I've I'm a great I named
all these teams, and I've talked to myself into well,
most of them should be looking at it. I'm probably
not if we're being really honest, like the Denvers, the Indianas,
the Atlantas, the Clippers. Of Coursefield's super unrealistic, Spurs, Kings
and Grizzlies. Man, I'm thinking about it, and if I'm
the Spurs and the Kings, this is all pride upon.
Speaker 2: What is Jimmy Butler gonna do after this season.
Speaker 1: I'm probably thinking longer about it than a lot of
these other teams, But let me know what you think.
Which team you want to see Gimmy Butler trading to?
What do you make of this whole fiasco? Is he
even a name worthy of an entire podcast that I
just did?
Speaker 2: Who knows?
Speaker 1: Please remember to rate, review, subscribe, comment, like our videos
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and as always, I with the shout out to the one,
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mister Frank