Speaker 1: You're listening to Redefining Energy.
Speaker 2: Your co hosts from.
Speaker 1: Berlin Gerard Reed and from London Laurent Segala. Today on
Speaker 1: Redefining Energy, we're going to talk about mobile batteries.
Speaker 3: And mobile batteries are energy storage system between one kido
Speaker 3: what and one mega what? Do you have it on
Speaker 3: traders or in ten food container? And the reason it's
Speaker 3: ten food container it's a question of weight. Ten food
Speaker 3: container is going to weigh about ten to twelve tons
Speaker 3: and if it's above twenty twn it becomes a very
Speaker 3: conversone to move.
Speaker 1: And if I understand what you're doing is you're using
Speaker 1: these really insane of diesel gen sets, so construction sites,
Speaker 1: film sites, and you're also increasingly beginning to used as
Speaker 1: part of the grid. Yeah, and asten because we want
Speaker 1: to learn a little bit more about this area. We've
Speaker 1: done is we've got a great guy on Peter Paul
Speaker 1: van Vorst was the SEAO of the mobile battery management
Speaker 1: platform called School.
Speaker 3: I've known Peter pol for now four years and he
Speaker 3: leads a remarkable team. So they're based in Rotterdam and
Speaker 3: they've been starting to manage those batteries seven years ago
Speaker 3: and now I think they've got more than a thousand
Speaker 3: batteries and under management. So we'll explain what under management
Speaker 3: means a lot of knowledge in hardware, but also the
Speaker 3: fantastic development in the software a year and esson just.
Speaker 1: From my side, apologies that I actually was during the interview.
Speaker 1: My internet connection died. I was actually on an Irish
Speaker 1: ferry from France to Dublin.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so I conducted the interview alone, but send you
Speaker 3: the tape so you know what we talked about.
Speaker 1: For once, let's bring Peter Paul on.
Speaker 3: Peter pol welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you very much.
Speaker 3: Jad is on a boat somewhere in the Irish see
Speaker 3: carrying his precious cargo of Irish whiskey, so he might
Speaker 3: join or not. I don't really know. So we're going
Speaker 3: to start by a very simple question. Can you explain
Speaker 3: to our listeners what you put in the concept of
Speaker 3: mobile batteries or what's the smallest, what's the biggest?
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely. So mobile batteries, or mobile energy systems as
Speaker 4: we call them, are systems between roughly one kilowatt and
Speaker 4: one megawat that are all used to have energy storage
Speaker 4: and energy generation. If it's for example, cleaner generators for
Speaker 4: temporary applications. And then you can think of construction sites,
Speaker 4: film sets, factories that want to get a new machine
Speaker 4: in but have to wait for a great connection. So
Speaker 4: everything with a temporary nature where you don't want to
Speaker 4: wait for the stationary infrastructure, and definitely where you don't
Speaker 4: want to use a diesel generator.
Speaker 3: I guess the type of chemistry service is very similar
Speaker 3: from what we have in Let's says a stationary storage pretty.
Speaker 4: Much definitely, and I would say even probably a bigger
Speaker 4: share of LFP batteries than in stationery search or mobility
Speaker 4: because volume or density is not such a big issue.
Speaker 4: These are mostly ten food containers or the smaller ones
Speaker 4: are trailers that you can toby in the car, and
Speaker 4: density is not the biggest issue. So we especially look
Speaker 4: for safe and reliable systems that are plug and play
Speaker 4: and you can deploy wherever you bring them.
Speaker 3: The suppliers, I guess, are pretty much a list of
Speaker 3: people which we know or do they have specialty suppliers.
Speaker 4: There are definitely different types of suppliers, but what they
Speaker 4: all have in common is their business model is buying
Speaker 4: these systems from manufacturers and then keeping them on their
Speaker 4: balance sheet to rent out to other companies, and through
Speaker 4: Scones online marketplace, we facilitate the rental process and we
Speaker 4: also give these suppliers a lot of soft for tools
Speaker 4: so that all of the data is in one place
Speaker 4: and they can use AI to save all up of
Speaker 4: time and to also make a lot more money.
Speaker 3: When we took about the use of mobile batteries, I
Speaker 3: like to dig a bit more into detail because on
Speaker 3: one hand, you would have the basic power bank, I
Speaker 3: would say, so basically you're going to just charge and discharge,
Speaker 3: So I don't know why you charge, probably directly on
Speaker 3: the greed of the desagenitos and the discharge. And then
Speaker 3: you've got more sophisticated batteries where literally it's going to
Speaker 3: be much more multifunction and plug pretty much on everything
Speaker 3: and dis charge on everything. How do you see the
Speaker 3: product evolution.
Speaker 4: Over the last seven years that we've been doing this,
Speaker 4: that's gone. We've kind of developed a very simple way
Speaker 4: of doing this, which is a customer comes to us
Speaker 4: because they want energy, they want electricity, and then the
Speaker 4: first step we take is to see what their big
Speaker 4: pot amount is. Based on that, we scale the battery system.
Speaker 4: Then we look at what their capacity need is, so
Speaker 4: their energy usage electricity search across twenty four hours or
Speaker 4: the whole period of the project, and based on that
Speaker 4: we choose the source of the electricity, which indeed, as
Speaker 4: you say, should always be a great connection if you
Speaker 4: can that can check or charge the battery system. But
Speaker 4: if that's not enough or not available at all, then
Speaker 4: we go down a list, which is do we have
Speaker 4: space to place extra temporary solar, do we have the
Speaker 4: possibility to deploy a hydrogen generator, or in the worst case,
Speaker 4: do we have the last option of deploying a fossil
Speaker 4: fuel generator, which we definitely don't want to do. But
Speaker 4: at least by working this way and working in this order,
Speaker 4: we can swap out the fossil fuel generator as soon
Speaker 4: as we've gathered a bit of data, and we can
Speaker 4: then make that cleaner and cleaner as we go along.
Speaker 3: So it's not the same usage as those stationary storage
Speaker 3: to work more on the transmission level, and you know,
Speaker 3: we're talking fifty media a lot, and really these are
Speaker 3: like football fields. This is much more granular. I would say,
Speaker 3: it's much more adaptable to distribution system or your neighborhood
Speaker 3: or small industrial sites. So it's really a niche of
Speaker 3: its own.
Speaker 4: Yeah, we definitely operate at the SO level or below,
Speaker 4: and the reason of being is that's the level where
Speaker 4: you can take quick steps. Where we are in the
Speaker 4: energy transition now is a time where we need to
Speaker 4: look for quick solutions that can be implemented tomorrow. So
Speaker 4: if you are a factory, you can call us today
Speaker 4: and we'll have a solution in place next week. And
Speaker 4: that's only possible if you look at it from a
Speaker 4: temporary nature where you can start deploying with a number
Speaker 4: of batteries and then you can scale up and down
Speaker 4: based on the actual usage and the seasonallyties of the
Speaker 4: energy usage, but also keeping it modular so that you
Speaker 4: can really scale it to what is needed exactly and
Speaker 4: keep the cost slow. And because most of the challenges
Speaker 4: in the energy transition are the decentralized generation of electricity
Speaker 4: and also the electrification of businesses and homes and mobility,
Speaker 4: all of that is playing on the SOO level and below.
Speaker 3: Let's assume there is a ten foot container which is
Speaker 3: going to be I don't know, root and fifty K
Speaker 3: two hours or something like that. But if I order six,
Speaker 3: I can plug them all with cables and that become
Speaker 3: a one point five megawa battery or two hours, so
Speaker 3: that works. They can work in parallel or in series,
Speaker 3: so you can be.
Speaker 4: Too depending on whether power or storage or capacity and
Speaker 4: kilob What hours is your need.
Speaker 3: And two hours is what you see that the market
Speaker 3: needs in general?
Speaker 4: Yeah, generally yes, because anything above two hours is probably
Speaker 4: going to be too much capital in cells just waiting
Speaker 4: around to be used. And anything below that also kind
Speaker 4: of takes away the benefit of having a buffer in place.
Speaker 4: So if you have a shorter time that you can
Speaker 4: store the kilob of hours, that takes away the for example,
Speaker 4: optimization when working with generators or solar.
Speaker 3: It's a market I've been looking into. I mean the
Speaker 3: secret We've known each other for four years now. Every
Speaker 3: time I go, you know, on an exhibition, there's always
Speaker 3: the guy with the twenty foot container. I say, oh,
Speaker 3: but you know, you can pack eight mika whateur or
Speaker 3: whatever in our continents. What do you think of the
Speaker 3: limitation of trying to you know, having those two big
Speaker 3: containers or too heavy versus the tope of application we're
Speaker 3: seeing right now.
Speaker 4: The luxury we had is we started from a world
Speaker 4: of rentals, so we started from a very practical side
Speaker 4: of the deployment of these systems. So we've been working
Speaker 4: on construction sites and film sets and factories and grid
Speaker 4: operators for many years now, and then when working in practice,
Speaker 4: you really see what are the real issues, and that is,
Speaker 4: for example, how much weight can you put on an
Speaker 4: average truck because you want to use an average truck
Speaker 4: to keep the transportation cast slow. What is the average
Speaker 4: footprint you have on any given site, what is the
Speaker 4: average size that you place. And based on all of
Speaker 4: those data points, we've seen that there's not necessarily a
Speaker 4: lot to win in putting a lot of kiloverde hours
Speaker 4: in a cubic meter, but there's a lot to win
Speaker 4: in just making it practical, making sure it works, making
Speaker 4: sure that the software on the battery container is properly functioning,
Speaker 4: so that it's a reliable system that you can plug
Speaker 4: and play in that wide range of applications where those
Speaker 4: batteries will be used.
Speaker 3: And of course also as those batteries, I mean, they're
Speaker 3: not going to move every week, but they're going to
Speaker 3: move several times during the year, so you have always
Speaker 3: the issue of the who's going to carry it. So
Speaker 3: you know, in terms of forklift or crane or whatever,
Speaker 3: I guess you'll find much more equipment that can carry
Speaker 3: ten tones than forty tones.
Speaker 4: Definitely, definitely, and it has been an issue in the beginning,
Speaker 4: but now it's a mature industry and that's an exciting
Speaker 4: moment because that's also the moment at which we can
Speaker 4: really start thinking of the potential beyond rental. Been working
Speaker 4: for years understanding the energy systems and understanding how they
Speaker 4: work and also when they don't work. And we've been
Speaker 4: spending years on understanding the energy user, their energy profiles,
Speaker 4: their needs, what is important to them, and bringing those together,
Speaker 4: and then also from scone side, bringing that all into
Speaker 4: one marketplace, into one platform that operates globally and helps
Speaker 4: to really be a strong force in the energy transition
Speaker 4: and being able to help fight great congestion.
Speaker 3: At skill we talk about the hardware. Let's go in
Speaker 3: the digital part, because the difference of these oginitos, which
Speaker 3: are really a very rustic technology. Here it's a much
Speaker 3: more sophisticated beast. I learned a few years ago there
Speaker 3: are two layears of software inside the battery, what called
Speaker 3: the BMS and the EMS. So can you explain first
Speaker 3: of all, listeners, the difference between the two.
Speaker 4: Yeah, the BMS is the battery management software and that
Speaker 4: is what is you to really keep the battery modules alive.
Speaker 4: But you could have tens of hundreds of battery modules
Speaker 4: inside any given battery container. The battery container as a
Speaker 4: whole also includes temperature management, safety systems, location data, all
Speaker 4: of that and that comes together in the EMS, the
Speaker 4: energy management system. And there's still different terms going around
Speaker 4: for this, but it basically comes down to how do
Speaker 4: we put a software system inside that battery container so
Speaker 4: that that battery container on one side can talk to
Speaker 4: a lot of different energy sources to remain charged, and
Speaker 4: on the other side, can it talk to different energy users.
Speaker 4: So different frequencies, different voltages, different power outputs, different load profiles,
Speaker 4: different ramp up times, ramp down times, all those different
Speaker 4: things you have to think of because it's going to
Speaker 4: be used by so many users. To also make sure
Speaker 4: that it can compete on costs against the diesel generators.
Speaker 3: If I some of eyes. The butty management system is
Speaker 3: really inside the battery and the EMS is the interface
Speaker 3: between the battery and the outside world.
Speaker 4: Yes, exactly on location. And then scone is the interface
Speaker 4: between all of those unique energy systems and you as
Speaker 4: a user and you as a good operator.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because there is so much data going on, and
Speaker 3: of course we need to monitor remotely the state of charge,
Speaker 3: the set of discharge, making sure that the battery is
Speaker 3: not just too much or there are a certain parameters
Speaker 3: of use. And then the moment you start having a
Speaker 3: fleet of batteries ten twenty one hundred, if it's not
Speaker 3: globally managed by you layer of asset manager. If you
Speaker 3: want to manage that by Excel sheets, it's not going
Speaker 3: to work.
Speaker 4: We've seen people try, but then they do end up
Speaker 4: using scone software tools because we bring together both the
Speaker 4: energy data layer, so everything that the EMS produces in
Speaker 4: terms of energy points, and we bring that together in
Speaker 4: the same environment, the same platform where they also use
Speaker 4: all the commercial tools, so also all of the data
Speaker 4: points around money are in there. And one of the
Speaker 4: simple tools we have, for example, is a decision tool,
Speaker 4: which can make a simulation when a customer is in
Speaker 4: contact with the salesperson what the cost is going to
Speaker 4: be of a dec generator setup versus a clean setup.
Speaker 4: And people are surprised how often it's actually cheaper to
Speaker 4: go cleaner, and people almost don't believe it. And that's
Speaker 4: why we build a decision tool, which is a really
Speaker 4: objective and very transparent tool that make sure that all
Speaker 4: the assumptions that somebody wants in there can be altered
Speaker 4: all the way to matching the realistic project of the customer.
Speaker 4: And then still you'll see that it's cheaper to just
Speaker 4: go cleaner because people often forget the fuel that pay for.
Speaker 3: Plus on the top of that, I guess you calculated
Speaker 3: the CEO two avoided emissions.
Speaker 4: Exactly CO two NOx PM, all of the emissions that
Speaker 4: are now big part of commercial processes. Because in the
Speaker 4: end that's our goal. We just need to have more
Speaker 4: and more commercial deployments of these systems, which is either
Speaker 4: because people can save money or because people can win
Speaker 4: more projects because of the CO two savings KNOC savings
Speaker 4: rather types of emissions that would be limited by the
Speaker 4: companies giving our tenders for construction projects for example.
Speaker 3: But you know the best clients is those who don't
Speaker 3: have the choice. It's like, yeah, exactly, love the battery,
Speaker 3: I need a battery. I'm going out of business. Have
Speaker 3: you seen that. I mean, I guess the past five
Speaker 3: years or six years you've been doing that, you've seen
Speaker 3: the batteries really progressing from a technological point of view.
Speaker 3: So talk a bit about that, Talk a bit about
Speaker 3: how the SOFTWARELS has improved over time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely, And what's really nice to see is that
Speaker 4: there is rapid innovation and rapid improvement on all the levels,
Speaker 4: from sell level all the way to container level. There
Speaker 4: are steps being taken. And what's the most interesting thing
Speaker 4: is you'll find out that the most important part of
Speaker 4: any given system is the software that it's using and
Speaker 4: the software that it is connected to. So the software
Speaker 4: that it's using make sure that the system will always
Speaker 4: stay alive despite the fact it's being used in so
Speaker 4: many different applications, and the software is connected to will
Speaker 4: give it a gateway to revenue, and that gateway to
Speaker 4: revenue is something that people often forget, and that's also
Speaker 4: the strength of mobile batteries. By connecting it to scone,
Speaker 4: for example, you get the access to the marketplace where
Speaker 4: you can get a lot of rental customers, but you
Speaker 4: also get access to grid services, so you can do
Speaker 4: energy trading and congestion management, and that is key because
Speaker 4: what you want to do with these assets is constantly
Speaker 4: be making money and not depend on maybe one source
Speaker 4: of revenue.
Speaker 3: Let me unpack that. So what you're saying is you
Speaker 3: act first as a kind of broker between battery owners
Speaker 3: and clients, so that's a bit of a classic. But
Speaker 3: then on the top of that, you act as manager
Speaker 3: once those batteries are operating, so you can track them
Speaker 3: hour by hour or you know, or most live. But
Speaker 3: also if there is no client per se, your client
Speaker 3: becomes the grid, so you can plug them I don't
Speaker 3: know where, and you'll tell me in which country it
Speaker 3: works or it doesn't work, and be able to provide
Speaker 3: whatever frequency services or daily habitrasure or I don't know what.
Speaker 3: PISA elaborate a bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, you hit an eline headler. It's really that combination
Speaker 4: between their companies wanting to replace THEESEL generators. They are
Speaker 4: willing to pay for this, and you have the electricity
Speaker 4: grid and they are already paying for this through existing
Speaker 4: energy trading markets, and that is just going to expand,
Speaker 4: and we see in every country where we are active.
Speaker 4: We're active in fourteen countries now that the the energy
Speaker 4: markets are developing at such a rapid rate because we
Speaker 4: see that the stationary infrastructure of the grid is not
Speaker 4: going to be able to keep up, and we see
Speaker 4: that all their sources of flexibility are not going to
Speaker 4: be enough. So every grid operator in the world is
Speaker 4: looking for new sources of flexibility. And what we do
Speaker 4: with scone, we don't only give flexibility in time by
Speaker 4: providing storage where you can do some flexibility across the day,
Speaker 4: but we also provide flexibility in space because a lot
Speaker 4: of the congestion issues are seasonal three months a year
Speaker 4: or are temporary until the time that the stationary infrastructure
Speaker 4: is indeed being built. And by providing that combination of
Speaker 4: flexibility in time and space, the grid operators globally can
Speaker 4: really rely on us. And that's also why we made
Speaker 4: sure to first build that suite of software tools and
Speaker 4: the network in the marketplace so that we would be
Speaker 4: at the right skill be a reliable partner to grid operators.
Speaker 4: And you could say, be the flexible layer of the
Speaker 4: electricity grid.
Speaker 3: That's the best business model. You're providing duct tape to
Speaker 3: a creaking system, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 4: And in the end we had conversations also internally, but
Speaker 4: what if the grid is solved by then. Well, first
Speaker 4: of all, that's probably quite far out, and second of all,
Speaker 4: we do foresee a future in which we start to
Speaker 4: actually get used to this duct tape and we start
Speaker 4: seeing it as the safest, most reliable solution that we
Speaker 4: can build on. And that is also on us to
Speaker 4: make sure that our software continuously develops and that our
Speaker 4: reliability and security is indeed at the level that the
Speaker 4: grid operators want us to be. But it is going
Speaker 4: to be an integral part of every electricity grid to
Speaker 4: be moving around energy infrastructure to whereas needed.
Speaker 3: Most So I'm going to give you some use have
Speaker 3: been thinking about. You're going to tell me if it's
Speaker 3: me dreaming of if I'm onto something. Okay, let's assume
Speaker 3: I'm a new EV charging station and for whatever reason,
Speaker 3: I have not pushed it to the maximum, and during
Speaker 3: the summer, people are going to start queuing because it
Speaker 3: takes too much time. So would those EV chargers install
Speaker 3: a mobile battery for the summer to cope with extra dive?
Speaker 3: Can you envision that.
Speaker 4: That is definitely an example of one of our customers.
Speaker 4: It is not as widely used in EV charging because
Speaker 4: the extra revenue that an ev charger can get from
Speaker 4: having that actual capacity is limited. But for example, a
Speaker 4: factory that buys a new production machine for their production line,
Speaker 4: when they call the grid operator, they will not get
Speaker 4: that space. Or entire neighborhoods which actually have a higher
Speaker 4: usage in the winter because of all the heating that
Speaker 4: is electric, right, those also get in trouble. And that's
Speaker 4: the level at which we're now scaling these solutions is
Speaker 4: for dsls at serious power outputs, making sure that those
Speaker 4: months where you struggle, that those are solved so that
Speaker 4: we're not going to lock up the grid for years,
Speaker 4: because in those few months a year and then those
Speaker 4: few hours a day in those months, there is technical congestion.
Speaker 3: Do you know what's the average time for a new
Speaker 3: transformer right now?
Speaker 4: For the hardware of a transformer? Yeah, I would say
Speaker 4: that's the easier part. Let's talk about the pyramits, and
Speaker 4: let's talk about other people involved, and let's talk about
Speaker 4: three years, okay, permitting part nine years maybe?
Speaker 3: Yeah. So I guess while a new transformer can arrive
Speaker 3: to reorganize the power fluid in the neighborhood, some of
Speaker 3: the solutions you propose would make sense. How many batteries
Speaker 3: do you have under management right now compared to say
Speaker 3: two years ago, and how do you see yourself into
Speaker 3: a three time.
Speaker 4: We're now getting into the thousands, which is exciting news
Speaker 4: because we're going to need many And this is on
Speaker 4: one part, because the rental industry is massively growing in
Speaker 4: this space because of CO two emission regulations, because of
Speaker 4: NOx emission regulations, because of electrification of machinery, and all
Speaker 4: of that is growing. While at the same time grid
Speaker 4: operators and are knocking on our doors and also seeing
Speaker 4: this as one of their solutions to solve grid congestion.
Speaker 4: And so those markets all together are probably going to
Speaker 4: accelerate the growth line of number of systems, but also
Speaker 4: a number of countries where we're active with our platform
Speaker 4: because it is the only way forward. Flexibility is what
Speaker 4: we need in electricity, grid electrification is what we need
Speaker 4: as a society, and our role in NET is bringing
Speaker 4: them all together in one platform, aggregating all the data,
Speaker 4: building the best AOLS on top of it, so that
Speaker 4: it's also very easy to find, very easy to use,
Speaker 4: very easy to report on, and so that on a
Speaker 4: commercial level, we can also compete with what the alternatives would.
Speaker 3: Be oh so beautiful. I'm sorry, Ja, he's stuck on
Speaker 3: his boat, so he could not participate to.
Speaker 2: The He could not participate to the conversation, but he
Speaker 2: always concludes without listening to the interview, and when he's cornered,
Speaker 2: he talk about Harris Risky. So that's good to know.
Speaker 4: That's always good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 4: Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: Ern So Lauran. I usually finished this podcast I sort
Speaker 1: of asking what the future is, but I want to
Speaker 1: ask you because at the end of the day, you're
Speaker 1: also investing your own money in this area, so you
Speaker 1: really are a big believer. So tell me a little
Speaker 1: bit about how you see that market in the future
Speaker 1: and why you think is really interesting.
Speaker 3: Five years ago I wrote a piece and said energy
Speaker 3: storage the next ina set. It has de developed beyond
Speaker 3: my wildest dreams, and we're at the point where those
Speaker 3: batteries benefit from everything that has been done in ivy
Speaker 3: and stationary storage. So we're having product which are becoming
Speaker 3: extremely useful, extremely versatile. And when I started looking into
Speaker 3: those batteries, they were all an MCS and we had
Speaker 3: liquid cooling, and now we've get l FPS air cooling
Speaker 3: and all the regulation in Europe, and I've seen a
Speaker 3: lot of them are on fire and the fact that
Speaker 3: you use l FP totally mitigate the fire risk. So
Speaker 3: in fact they're going to be accepted in much more
Speaker 3: use case than they used to be.
Speaker 1: Plus you've also got the price of these battery systems
Speaker 1: going down, which means the market is just going to
Speaker 1: open up more.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Absolutely, since I started, the price of the batteries
Speaker 3: have gone down forty percent.
Speaker 4: Now.
Speaker 3: Of course we're all tracking the cells, which of course
Speaker 3: I've gone down even faster, but we're buying full systems,
Speaker 3: which means the plugs, the antifier system, the HVAC, the invertors.
Speaker 3: So in fact, if you look at those systems, I
Speaker 3: would say the cells maybe they represent twenty to thirty
Speaker 3: percent of the overall costs and the rest is really
Speaker 3: about software. It's really about also maintenance guarantees making sure
Speaker 3: their track all the time. And that's a big advantage
Speaker 3: they have over these ogenerators is that all those batteries
Speaker 3: are plugged and we can track minute by minute how
Speaker 3: they charge the discharge. And what's also very interesting is
Speaker 3: it means we can track them from tradle to grave.
Speaker 3: We know after x months, x years how fast they degrade.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Court, I can see that really interesting. Okay, well
Speaker 1: I wish you all the best investment you're doing in
Speaker 1: that area.
Speaker 3: Well, as usual, the Excel sheets are beautiful, the poor
Speaker 3: point are phenomenal, but at some point you need to go.
Speaker 3: So we're going to invest some money and I'll tell
Speaker 3: you in a year if it was very smart. Ok
Speaker 3: If it's very smart, everybody's going to do it. And
Speaker 3: if it was very stupid, I'm sure some people we
Speaker 3: say alone, we told you so, but you don't know
Speaker 3: until you do it, So no, you don't. And yes,
Speaker 3: of course we're going to rely extensively on Scoon to
Speaker 3: manage them because they really bring a lot of knowledge
Speaker 3: of client use cases, but also you know, stuff like logistics,
Speaker 3: the cables, all those things. It's much more than just
Speaker 3: a software company. Okay, very good, Peter Poll and all
Speaker 3: this team. I've been to Rotterdam several times and these
Speaker 3: are really young, remarkable people, and from a human perspective,
Speaker 3: it's great to see so much enthusiasm and talent in
Speaker 3: those startups compared to sometimes the doom and gloom we
Speaker 3: see everywhere. The young generation is formidable.
Speaker 1: So there's all, absolutely all, there's hope.
Speaker 3: Well, thank you for.
Speaker 2: Thank you for being there, Thank you for being there
Speaker 2: in spirit, in spirit.
Speaker 3: Okay, job, talk to you next week.
Speaker 2: Have good week. Thank you for.
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