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<v Speaker 1>What's up, everyone, and welcome to another episode of the

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein Chronicles. In this episode, we're going to pick up

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<v Speaker 1>where he left off with Kathy Rumler and her conversation

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<v Speaker 1>with Congress Question mister Biggs, Miss Rumler. To ensure the

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<v Speaker 1>record is clear, I want to pivot briefly to a

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<v Speaker 1>topic that we discussed during the previous hour. I believe

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<v Speaker 1>that you were asked about clients that Epstein referred to you.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that right? Answer? Yes, question, and there was an

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<v Speaker 1>individual client that you did not want to provide the

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<v Speaker 1>name for correct answer. That's a consideration just for my

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<v Speaker 1>ethical obligation and given that it has nothing to do

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<v Speaker 1>with anything I think that you're interested in. I just

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<v Speaker 1>didn't feel like it was appropriate to say the person's name. Question,

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<v Speaker 1>and you answered my next question to be clear, this

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<v Speaker 1>individual has nothing to do with the committee's investigation inter

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<v Speaker 1>sexual misconduct and trafficking conducted by mister Epstein and Miss

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<v Speaker 1>Maxwell answer, that's correct. This is an accounting This is

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<v Speaker 1>an accounting fraud case that had nothing to do with

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<v Speaker 1>mister Epstein. Whatsoever? Question? Has the individual ever been identified

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<v Speaker 1>as a person of interest by this committee or the

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein files? Transparency Act. Answer, no question, mister Grant. I

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<v Speaker 1>want to turn gears a little bit. I know that

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<v Speaker 1>you've mentioned the gifts you received in your opening statement today,

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<v Speaker 1>and I know in previous hours it's loosely been brought up.

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<v Speaker 1>But just to make sure that we have a clear

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<v Speaker 1>record and accounting of the gifts, I'm going to go

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<v Speaker 1>through a lot of them, starting with my first question

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<v Speaker 1>being did mister Epstein give you gifts over the course

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<v Speaker 1>of the relationship? Answer? Yes, he did. Question and what

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<v Speaker 1>was when did you receive the first gift from mister Epstein? Answer? Oh, gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>I believe it was when I was flying to Geneva

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<v Speaker 1>for my first meeting with the Rothschild Bank, and he, really,

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<v Speaker 1>without my knowledge, you know, upgraded my flight. I learned

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<v Speaker 1>that I had been upgraded, you know, when I went

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<v Speaker 1>when I went to board the flight, they gave me

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<v Speaker 1>a different boarding pass. Question and this was an upgrade

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<v Speaker 1>to first class? Answer it was from business to first class? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>Ques And what would you say is the biggest, most lavish,

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<v Speaker 1>most expensive gift that mister Epstein provided you? Answer? The

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<v Speaker 1>most lavish gift that he tried to give me. I

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<v Speaker 1>did not accept. I guess it's called a jet card,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's essentially if you can imagine like if you

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<v Speaker 1>give someone like a Starbucks card, this is a card

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<v Speaker 1>that you can use to charter a plane. And it

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<v Speaker 1>was the face value of it. I mean, there wasn't

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<v Speaker 1>like a physical card, but it was like, oh, I'm

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<v Speaker 1>giving you this jet card. The phase value is fifty thousand.

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<v Speaker 1>I thought it was excessive, and I don't charter a

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<v Speaker 1>private planes, and it was nothing that I was ever

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<v Speaker 1>going to do, you know, for myself, and I, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>just declined it. Question and do you know when he

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<v Speaker 1>would have tried to provide you this jet card? Answer? Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>that was ostensibly a birthday gift for my birthday in

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<v Speaker 1>April of twenty nineteen. Question. Thank you for that. So,

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<v Speaker 1>over the course of the committee's investigation, we've identified numerous

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<v Speaker 1>other gifts. I will stipulate to you that I'm using

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<v Speaker 1>the term gifts pretty broadly. Answer. Okay, question, So the

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<v Speaker 1>first one I would like to talk about is mister

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein providing you flowers? On how many occasions in total

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<v Speaker 1>did mister Epstein, either personally or through his employees or

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<v Speaker 1>agents provide you flowers to the best of your recollection. Answer,

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<v Speaker 1>to the best of my recollection, it was only once,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's possible that it was other times. My memory

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<v Speaker 1>is that he sent me flowers once when I was sick,

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<v Speaker 1>along with chicken soup, which is ironic because I don't

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<v Speaker 1>eat chicken, and so you know, the chicken soup didn't

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<v Speaker 1>get eaten. Question and did mister Epstein ever pay for

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<v Speaker 1>your facials at Bliss Soho? Answer? Not that I remember,

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<v Speaker 1>but it's certainly possible. Question, did mister Epstein provider pay

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<v Speaker 1>for a massage for yourself at the Mandarin Oriental? This

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<v Speaker 1>would have been both of these would have been for

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<v Speaker 1>Valentine's Day around Valentine's Day in twenty sixteen. Answer My

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<v Speaker 1>memory was that it was a SPA Day gift, was

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<v Speaker 1>actually a holiday gift, so it was more of a

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<v Speaker 1>Christmas gift that didn't get used or whatever. And my

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<v Speaker 1>memory was it was actually the Peninsula Spaw, not the Mandarin,

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<v Speaker 1>But again it was ten years ago, so I'm not

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<v Speaker 1>exactly sure. Question did mister Epstein ever pay for a

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<v Speaker 1>hair of blowout or haircut Afachai salon for you honor

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<v Speaker 1>around Valentine's Day in twenty sixteen? Answer. I recall that

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<v Speaker 1>he paid or insisted on paying for a haircut or

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<v Speaker 1>a blowout for both me and our shared client, Ariande

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<v Speaker 1>or Ofthchild. It probably was on that occasion. Question did

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<v Speaker 1>you find it strange or unusual you were getting gifts

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<v Speaker 1>honor around Valentine's Day from mister Epstein? Answer again, I

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<v Speaker 1>don't believe that these were Valentine's gifts. Question we can

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<v Speaker 1>go through the rigamarole of putting more documents in front

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<v Speaker 1>of you, but I will stipulate to you that the

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<v Speaker 1>email that I'm referring to you is from February twelfth,

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<v Speaker 1>twenty sixteen. Question okay, is in Valentine's Day on February fourteenth?

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<v Speaker 1>Question yes? Answer okay. Question That's why I said on

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<v Speaker 1>or around Valentine's Day? Answer yeah, I mean I don't

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<v Speaker 1>remember it being a thing that he would like send

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<v Speaker 1>me Valentine's gifts. He definitely would send me a gift

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<v Speaker 1>on my birthday, and he was, you know, he was

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<v Speaker 1>a pretty prolific gift giver. Question and sticking specifically to

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<v Speaker 1>the Fachai salon on how many occasions did you get

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<v Speaker 1>your hair done, cut, blow dried, etc. At Fakai salon. Answer, gosh,

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<v Speaker 1>the typical cadence for a women's haircut like once every

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<v Speaker 1>like ten weeks or so. But you know, the Secai

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<v Speaker 1>salon closed at some point. I don't remember exactly when,

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<v Speaker 1>but many years ago it closed, and the building that

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<v Speaker 1>it was in, the Henry Bendall Building in New York City,

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<v Speaker 1>the whole got hit with the retail sector turned down

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<v Speaker 1>and the whole building shut down. So I couldn't tell you.

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<v Speaker 1>But what I can tell you is that I paid

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<v Speaker 1>for the vast majority of my haircuts and continue to

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<v Speaker 1>as an adult woman, I'm pretty capable of paying for

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<v Speaker 1>my own hair question. Are you aware of how many

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<v Speaker 1>times mister Epstein would have paid for your hair services

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<v Speaker 1>at Fachai salon? Answer? I have no idea, but it

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<v Speaker 1>was probably on you know, one or two occasions. During

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<v Speaker 1>these occasions, were the services provided by a Frederick Focai

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<v Speaker 1>himself or other associates at the salon? Answer? Oh, other associates.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, Frederick Focai is like a franchise, and there

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<v Speaker 1>were multiple Frederick Facai salons in New York City and

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<v Speaker 1>I think elsewhere actually, Like so you know, it's like

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<v Speaker 1>Vidal Sason and so I've never met Frederick Focai or

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<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't recognize them if you walked in here. Question

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<v Speaker 1>So to be clear, you've never been introduced to Frederick

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<v Speaker 1>Fokai by mister Epstein or anyone else. Answer no. Question.

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<v Speaker 1>Are you aware of mister Epstein trying to provide you

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<v Speaker 1>a massage at Urban Detoks in New York on March

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<v Speaker 1>of twenty sixteen? Answer that does not ring any bells.

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<v Speaker 1>Question are you aware of mister Epstein paying for a

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<v Speaker 1>spa day at the Four Seasons in DC for you?

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<v Speaker 1>And this also would have been this would have been

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<v Speaker 1>August of twenty sixteen? Answer I do remember that, yes.

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<v Speaker 1>Question And what exactly did you get done at the

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<v Speaker 1>Four Seasons? Answer? So, I believe I have the time

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<v Speaker 1>frame right that it was either before or after I

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<v Speaker 1>was either about to start, or it was after I

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<v Speaker 1>had finished a big trial and trials or stressful things.

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<v Speaker 1>And so he was, you know, again, being nice by

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<v Speaker 1>saying you should go get a massage you seem stressed out,

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<v Speaker 1>which I'm sure I was. Question And did mister Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>in fact pay for the massage at the Four Seasons? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>I believe that he had his assistant, you know, call

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<v Speaker 1>and say, you know, please book. She either made the

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<v Speaker 1>appointment for me or I made the appointment and she

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<v Speaker 1>called and said it should be you know, paid for

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<v Speaker 1>on this credit card. Question and you're aware on how

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<v Speaker 1>many occasions in total mister Epstein paid for massages for you? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know, but it would have been. You've probably

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<v Speaker 1>just identified the two occasions in which he gave me

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<v Speaker 1>as gifts. A visit to a spa, the one occasion

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<v Speaker 1>at the Four Seasons, and one occasion I thought it

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<v Speaker 1>was the Peninsula, but maybe it was the Mandarin Oriental.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't remember, miss Tolan. Question, seeing as the nature

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<v Speaker 1>of the gifts we've covered so far, flowers, spa appointments

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<v Speaker 1>and massages, did you ever interpret these gifts to be

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<v Speaker 1>a romantic gesture or a flirtatious gesture from mister Epstein. Answer? No,

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<v Speaker 1>I did not interpret it that way at all. Question well,

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<v Speaker 1>how did you answer? Well? Again, the haircuts. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>the haircut was something that he insisted on, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>doing for both me and our shared client. He was

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<v Speaker 1>obviously an extremely wealthy person and it was his way,

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<v Speaker 1>it seemed to me to be his way of maintaining

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<v Speaker 1>relationships with people, and by that I mean, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>professional relationships and in business, particularly in professional services, one

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<v Speaker 1>thing that happens all the time, but not for me

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<v Speaker 1>because I don't golf. But you know, business colleagues or

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<v Speaker 1>clients or other associates will invite people to play golf

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<v Speaker 1>at their private country club and there are guest fees,

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<v Speaker 1>and those guest fees can run, you know, up to

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<v Speaker 1>one thousand dollars. I didn't golf, you know, I don't

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<v Speaker 1>like really go to like the Knicks games, And so

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<v Speaker 1>I think he interpreted it as I'm a female professional,

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<v Speaker 1>and I had quite a stressful job, and I was

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<v Speaker 1>traveling all the time, and you know that's the thing

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<v Speaker 1>that you give to a female professional, you give her

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<v Speaker 1>a spa day. That's how I took it. Questions, so

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<v Speaker 1>they didn't strike you as odd or concerning. Answer, No question, okay,

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<v Speaker 1>mister Grant. And you're aware that mister Epstein paying for

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<v Speaker 1>the glam squad to come to your New York apartment

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<v Speaker 1>for hair and makeup. Answer. I have a vague recollection

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<v Speaker 1>of something like that, but I didn't. I don't believe

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<v Speaker 1>it ever happened. I know that the Glam Squad is

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<v Speaker 1>basically it's sort of like task Rabbit, where you know,

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's an app and you can call and

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<v Speaker 1>have them like come to your house and do your makeup.

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<v Speaker 1>But I've only had my makeup done once, and I

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<v Speaker 1>remember it because I thought it looked weird and it

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<v Speaker 1>was actually before a stay dinner. Question. You've mentioned that

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<v Speaker 1>your one first class trip that mister Epstein provided to

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<v Speaker 1>you going to Geneva. Were there any other trips which

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<v Speaker 1>mister Epstein paid for an upgrade to first class outright,

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<v Speaker 1>booked you a first class ticket or bought you a

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<v Speaker 1>train ticket. Answer? There may have been one other occasion

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<v Speaker 1>in which I was traveling to Geneva that he asked

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<v Speaker 1>executive assistant. Again, that's where the Rothchild's bank was, and

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<v Speaker 1>he asked his assistant to book for me. And you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and I said, you don't really need to do that.

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<v Speaker 1>If I'm remembering this right. On one occasion, I was

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<v Speaker 1>going to travel to Geneva around the Christmas holiday, and

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<v Speaker 1>he asked his assistant to book the flight for me,

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<v Speaker 1>which I thought was I thought it was quite rude

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<v Speaker 1>to ask his assistant to book a flight for me.

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<v Speaker 1>He was, you know, asking her on Christmas Day, and

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<v Speaker 1>I felt quite apologetic to her that he was asking

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<v Speaker 1>her to do this, which I didn't need him to do.

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<v Speaker 1>I was very capable of buying my own plane ticket

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<v Speaker 1>and making my own flight reservation. Question and did mister

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<v Speaker 1>Epstein ever set up a dentist or doctor appointment for

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<v Speaker 1>on your behalf answer? He recommended a dentist in New York.

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<v Speaker 1>I had to get a root canal, and so I

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<v Speaker 1>was like crazy enough to get a root canal in

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<v Speaker 1>a wisdom tooth, which I would not recommend that anyone ever.

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<v Speaker 1>Do you know. I was kind of new to New

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<v Speaker 1>York because I had spent my whole career in Washington,

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<v Speaker 1>and he knew tons of people, and so he recommended

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<v Speaker 1>this guy to do a root canal, and then, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>also a dentist. In addition, he had a friend who

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<v Speaker 1>was an oncologist, and I met her on you know,

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<v Speaker 1>one occasion at the townhouse, and she was talking about

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<v Speaker 1>her work, which she was very focused in particular on

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<v Speaker 1>breast cancer, and so he was introducing us, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and he was saying, she's done all this great work

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<v Speaker 1>on breast cancer, et cetera, et cetera. And then she

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<v Speaker 1>went on to tell some stories about how important early

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<v Speaker 1>detection is for breast cancer and how it just makes

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<v Speaker 1>all the difference in the world. And in the context

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<v Speaker 1>of that conversation, I made the comment that I had

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<v Speaker 1>never had a mammogram. Again, I've you know, been working

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<v Speaker 1>hard in government, and as you all know, working in government,

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<v Speaker 1>you oftentimes like fail to do things like go to

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<v Speaker 1>the dentist and fail to do all these basic things.

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<v Speaker 1>And so when I said that that I had never

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<v Speaker 1>had a mammogram at the time, you know, I was

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<v Speaker 1>in my mid forties, and there was kind of like

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<v Speaker 1>shock and horror expressed. And you know about Epstein, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and his friend who was the oncologist, both insist that

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<v Speaker 1>I immediately make an appointment at her breast clinic to

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<v Speaker 1>get a mammogram. Question and who was this ps oncologist?

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<v Speaker 1>Answer Eva Dubin question and did mister Epstein pay for

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<v Speaker 1>these appointments or visits? Rather answer no, I don't believe

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<v Speaker 1>they were all covered by insurance. As I recall question,

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<v Speaker 1>did mister Epstein ever give you an Apple TV or

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<v Speaker 1>Apple TV products? Answer? He gave me an Apple Watch.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think Apple has a TV I don't think.

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<v Speaker 1>So he did give me an Apple Watch. Question not

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<v Speaker 1>any of the Apple TV devices that you can stream

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<v Speaker 1>other apps off of? Answer, oh those little black boxes

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<v Speaker 1>question Yes answer, I don't remember that it's possible. But

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<v Speaker 1>he did give me an Apple Watch as a Christmas gift.

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<v Speaker 1>Question and that was an Apple Watch with the Hermes band.

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<v Speaker 1>Is that correct? Answer? Yes? Question? And did mister Epstein

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<v Speaker 1>provide you with a fendy coot and bag? Answer? Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>question and you remember roughly when you would have received

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<v Speaker 1>those answer, I don't question. Did it strike you as

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<v Speaker 1>to receive a coat and bag from mister Epstein? Answer?

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<v Speaker 1>Not really. I mean, you know, he typically would send

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<v Speaker 1>as a birthday gift, he would at least send me

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<v Speaker 1>a handbag. And you know, I assume that he, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>had his executive assistant basically go to the handbag closet

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<v Speaker 1>that he had at his house. It seemed like very

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<v Speaker 1>you know, not a particularly personalized gift. You know, I

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<v Speaker 1>think for a woman, you know, leather goods, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>handbags or wallets or you know, scarves are very kind

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<v Speaker 1>of you know, common, you know, the common gift question.

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<v Speaker 1>So were you not part of the decision making process

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<v Speaker 1>and selecting these bags or coats, they were just randomly

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<v Speaker 1>gifted to you. Answer. In most every instance, the answer

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<v Speaker 1>to that is yes, I believe that he the Fendi

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<v Speaker 1>bag that you just mentioned, I believe that he sent

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<v Speaker 1>me an online picture of it, you know, do you

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<v Speaker 1>like the bag? You know kind of thing. But the

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<v Speaker 1>other ones, No, the other ones just came as they

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<v Speaker 1>were question and either probably him or his assistant picked

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<v Speaker 1>them out for you. Answer. I certainly could not have

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<v Speaker 1>imagined that he was picking them out for himself. Okay,

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<v Speaker 1>so he wasn't trying to style you with certain pieces

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<v Speaker 1>in any way. Answered no, No, I certainly didn't have

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<v Speaker 1>that impression. All right, folks, we're gonna wrap up right here,

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<v Speaker 1>and in the next episode dealing with the topic, we're

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<v Speaker 1>gonna pick up where we left off. All the information

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<v Speaker 1>that goes with this episode can be found in the

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<v Speaker 1>description box.