Speaker 1: Welcome to the Three Martini Lunch.
Speaker 2: Grab a stool next to Greg Corumbus of Radio America
Speaker 2: and Jim Garritty of National Review.
Speaker 1: Free Martini's coming up.
Speaker 3: Hey, we made it to Friday, and we actually have
Speaker 3: some good news on more than one story today.
Speaker 1: How about that.
Speaker 3: We'll take that going into the weekend. In a moment,
Speaker 3: we'll be talking about the fact that the Brown University
Speaker 3: shooter turned out to also be the MIT shooter. He's
Speaker 3: also dead, and we'll get more of an explanation on
Speaker 3: what exactly happened here. We'll also be taking a look
Speaker 3: at the conviction of Judge Hannah Dugan in Wisconsin after
Speaker 3: she blatantly helped an illegal immigrant escape ICE enforcement in
Speaker 3: her courthouse. That's good news, but there's more bad political
Speaker 3: action happening when it comes to illegal immigration, and it
Speaker 3: just cost someone their life here just outside the nation's capital.
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Speaker 3: As evidenced by two of our martinis already this week,
Speaker 3: our confidence in the Providence police and Brown University officials
Speaker 3: and Rhode Island was not exactly sky high. Turns out, though,
Speaker 3: that this case appears to have been solved, although with
Speaker 3: many lingering questions that may never get answered, kind of
Speaker 3: had dueling press conferences last night. Providence folks showed up
Speaker 3: mainly to congratulate themselves, it seemed like, but also in
Speaker 3: dribs and drabs to give out an explanation of how
Speaker 3: the case came together. Up in Boston, the US attorney
Speaker 3: up there, Leah Foley, with a much more coherent explanation
Speaker 3: of what happened.
Speaker 2: Investigators identified the vehicle he had rented in Boston and
Speaker 2: then drove to Rhode Island, and he was seen in
Speaker 2: the vehicle, was seen outside of Brown, and there was
Speaker 2: security footage that showed a person who resembled him. There
Speaker 2: was online there was financial investigations that were going on
Speaker 2: in the background that linked him not only to that car,
Speaker 2: but also to the hotels that he had rented and
Speaker 2: the cars. The car that he had used to not
Speaker 2: only drive to Rhode Island but then back to Boston,
Speaker 2: and then there was a security footage that captured him
Speaker 2: within a half mile of the professor's residence in Brookline,
Speaker 2: and there is a video footage of him entering an
Speaker 2: apartment building in the location of the professor's apartment, and
Speaker 2: then later that evening he is seen about an hour
Speaker 2: later entering the storage unit wearing this same clothes that
Speaker 2: he had been scene wearing right after the murder.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that seems pretty cut and dried. The Brown shooting
Speaker 3: was on the thirteenth, the murder of the professor was
Speaker 3: on the fifteenth. Found debt on the eighteenth, and a
Speaker 3: storage facility in Salem, New Hampshire, and so Jim there
Speaker 3: was also switching license plates from the rental Florida plates
Speaker 3: to once from Maine that were long expired. And so
Speaker 3: we still don't know motive. Why did he shoot up
Speaker 3: the class in Brown? Seems like he may have known
Speaker 3: this professor from MIT and maybe that was the real target.
Speaker 3: What do you make of what we do know and
Speaker 3: what we don't.
Speaker 1: Well, the threat has passed, which is probably you know,
Speaker 1: why we put this in the good Martine. It's good
Speaker 1: to have some answers of who the perpetrator was kind
Speaker 1: of infuriating about the press conference, which I'll talk about
Speaker 1: a bit more in a second, but you know, I
Speaker 1: remember at the time you and I talked on this podcast.
Speaker 1: I don't think beating the drums for this, but people wondering,
Speaker 1: considering the identity of the professor, was this potentially an
Speaker 1: anti Semitic attack from this happened the same day as
Speaker 1: the terrible attack in Australia. Then we found out that
Speaker 1: one of the two students of slain was vice president
Speaker 1: of the College Republicans. Some people wondered if she had
Speaker 1: been particularly targeted by this. Based on what we know
Speaker 1: right now, neither of those appear to be the case.
Speaker 1: No nothing at connecting this guy to jihadism, Islamism, anything
Speaker 1: like that. No indication that this any student was particularly targeted.
Speaker 1: The student the shooter had gone to Brown University as
Speaker 1: a pH d candidate back in like the year two thousand,
Speaker 1: stopped going to classes two thousand and one, ended up
Speaker 1: formally withdrawing in two thousand and three, I believe, based
Speaker 1: on the university president's statement, so he had a connection
Speaker 1: to Brown but had been a long time. Kind of
Speaker 1: makes sense by nobody recognized him or recognized his voice.
Speaker 1: By the way, the state Attorney General had said that
Speaker 1: some people had said that he had not said anything
Speaker 1: during the shooting. There were comments saying he had shouted something,
Speaker 1: and a lot of people thought, oh, was this a
Speaker 1: la akbar or was you know, were people was this
Speaker 1: an Islamist attack? And people just didn't want to admit it.
Speaker 1: The state Attorney General said last night that some witnesses
Speaker 1: said that he was barking. Now, I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's not understanding something in Portuguese or whether he really was,
Speaker 1: but he kind of got He looked as confused as
Speaker 1: the rest of us when he shared that detail. So
Speaker 1: no indication pointing that this was, you know, in his
Speaker 1: Lamist attack and people were afraid to admit it. The
Speaker 1: guy had some connection to Brown University in this his
Speaker 1: previous program he studied physics and this he apparently knew
Speaker 1: the professor at MIT that he murdered. So this appears
Speaker 1: to be personal motives from a person, you know, the
Speaker 1: standard classification, just some nut, no larger ideological one, no
Speaker 1: sense of a manifesto, no sense of a you know,
Speaker 1: larger cause that he was fighting for. Seemingly personal grievances
Speaker 1: of some kind with the school and with this professor.
Speaker 1: Every bit is sad, everybod is wrong. But just you know,
Speaker 1: that's something we can kind of put about this. We
Speaker 1: had been underwhelmed by the performance of the Mayor of Providence,
Speaker 1: the police chief, state Attorney General, and governor in these
Speaker 1: press conferences. Earlier in the week. At the press conference
Speaker 1: in up in Boston, seemed to be a lot more
Speaker 1: Joe Friday just the faximam, which is kind of what
Speaker 1: we all tuned in for. I did not love that
Speaker 1: the Providence press conference began with everyone talking about how
Speaker 1: proud they were of everyone who had worked at how hard.
Speaker 1: Everyone like, yes, you know you are law enforcement officials
Speaker 1: responding and investigating a mass shooting. I would hope that
Speaker 1: you're working hard. I would hope that you're putting in low.
Speaker 1: This is this is like the job, this is, you know.
Speaker 1: So I kind of I could have done without all
Speaker 1: of that. And there was one last detail that stuck
Speaker 1: in my crawl. Wrote about it in Today's Morning Joelt
Speaker 1: From the beginning, I've just kind of marveled at the
Speaker 1: fact that somebody committed a mass shooting on a IGU
Speaker 1: league college campus and apparently nothing got caught on security
Speaker 1: cameras that was of any use to law enforcement. And
Speaker 1: there's this very specific question about this to the university
Speaker 1: president last night, who said, you didn't have any cameras
Speaker 1: in the universe in that building, And she says there
Speaker 1: were cameras in that building, but not enough of them.
Speaker 1: She also affirmed again that there are one one two
Speaker 1: hundred security cameras on Brown University's campus. Maybe it's just
Speaker 1: a remarkable coincidence, but just amazing that this guy managed
Speaker 1: to pick the route where none of them saw anything
Speaker 1: that was useful. And because there was some confusion, I
Speaker 1: was not I never wrote or said that the security
Speaker 1: cameras would have prevented this attack, but it became very important. Okay,
Speaker 1: so the guy's there with the mask, Well, does anybody
Speaker 1: see him before he puts on the mask? Does anybody
Speaker 1: see him after he takes off the mask? Is there?
Speaker 1: You know? Can we follow the route that he departed?
Speaker 1: All these kind of things. It sounds like all of
Speaker 1: this came or the really big break in the case
Speaker 1: came from John, who is apparently a homeless person, former
Speaker 1: graduate of Brown University who lives in the building. I
Speaker 1: don't know about you. That strikes me as a less
Speaker 1: than ideal set of circumstances. But John had some sort
Speaker 1: of confrontation with the shooter and kind of sense that
Speaker 1: the shooter was there and did not belong. He's in
Speaker 1: his late forties, he probably probably knew he wasn't a professor,
Speaker 1: and he didn't look like he was a student. So
Speaker 1: the question is what's he doing there? And he connected
Speaker 1: him to the car, and from the car, they were
Speaker 1: able to connect him to the car rental place that
Speaker 1: gave them the name, found out that both cars were
Speaker 1: involved in both shooting incidents. Eventually traced him to New Hampshire,
Speaker 1: where he had apparently killed himself. So again, you know,
Speaker 1: glad that the threat has gone kind of frustrating, and
Speaker 1: I just you know, Marvel. So what struck me as
Speaker 1: last night was the insistence of the university president quote.
Speaker 1: I do not think a lack of cameras in that
Speaker 1: building had anything to do with what happened there. Well,
Speaker 1: it probably would have helped the cops, wouldn't it if
Speaker 1: you know, we'd had some sense of what this guy
Speaker 1: looked like without his mask on. Now people are saying
Speaker 1: this building's on the edge of campus, and eventually they
Speaker 1: did get these sorts of images from people's ring cameras
Speaker 1: and other, you know, other cameras in the neighborhood. So
Speaker 1: I'm glad they eventually got it. But if they'd had
Speaker 1: that the day of the shooting, would they have been
Speaker 1: able to prevent the assassination of that mit professors, I'm
Speaker 1: never gonna know, but it just strikes me very odd
Speaker 1: to have so many security cameras on campus and in
Speaker 1: the end none of them prove anything useful.
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Speaker 3: in a case that we've been tracking to some extent
Speaker 3: all the way back in April, that's when the chaos
Speaker 3: first began in the courtroom of Judge Hannah Dugan. She
Speaker 3: had an illegal immigrant before her. I believe it was
Speaker 3: on a domestic abuse charge. It was unrelated to immigration
Speaker 3: related defenses. Nonetheless in the country illegally. Ice waiting patiently
Speaker 3: in the lobby of the courthouse to take him into
Speaker 3: custody for deportation proceedings, one would assume, and she decides
Speaker 3: no she's got to play resistance hero and she smuggles
Speaker 3: this guy out the back door. They catch him a
Speaker 3: couple of blocks down the street. She gets charged with
Speaker 3: a number of things, most especially felony obstruction of justice
Speaker 3: and then also concealing an individual to prevent arrest. Now,
Speaker 3: she was acquitted of the concealing, but convicted yesterday on
Speaker 3: the felony obstruction. Normally that carries a five year sentence.
Speaker 3: We'll see what happens in the sentencing here the jury
Speaker 3: returning the verdict after deliberating for six hours. And Jim,
Speaker 3: I've got to say, when this case happened and the
Speaker 3: charges came down, Milwaukee County, Wisconsin is a pretty deep
Speaker 3: blue area, and I wasn't sure what would happen. Could
Speaker 3: you get a jury to actually convict if they feel strongly,
Speaker 3: if anybody on that jury feels strongly in opposition to
Speaker 3: the deportation policy. So kudos to that jury, at least
Speaker 3: on the obstruction charge, for focusing on the facts of
Speaker 3: the case and making sure that Judge Dugan here is
Speaker 3: not above the law just because she happened to wear
Speaker 3: a robe for a lot of years.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, I mean, I suppose the moral victory here for
Speaker 1: the judge is that the jury took six hours and
Speaker 1: not six minutes, since it seemed just straight up obvious
Speaker 1: the facts of the case were not in dispute. The
Speaker 1: only way you could make a defense of her is
Speaker 1: to say, well, yes, but she believes that the law
Speaker 1: that the ICE agents were attempting to be enforced was
Speaker 1: immoral and is wrong, and they say a look for
Speaker 1: jury nullification. Instead, it sounds like her legal defense was
Speaker 1: that she was never intentionally obstructing the ICE agents, which
Speaker 1: is like, I don't. I'm just picturing the entire jury
Speaker 1: just saying come on, so again, this should have taken
Speaker 1: six minutes. But nonetheless, Now, the other thing which I
Speaker 1: think is worth you know, remembering here is at the time,
Speaker 1: the coverage of it in a whole bunch of media
Speaker 1: was that the Trump administration had starting started arresting judges
Speaker 1: it didn't like, and this was an assault on the
Speaker 1: independent judiciary and all that stuff. The idea is that
Speaker 1: there was no actual criminal activity on the part of
Speaker 1: this judge that would warrant such a case. Minnesota Tina
Speaker 1: Smith saying, quote, if Cash Patel and Donald Trump don't
Speaker 1: like a judge, they think they can arrest them. Know,
Speaker 1: if Trump and Patel had anything to do with the
Speaker 1: you know, we're even you know, notified of it until
Speaker 1: it happened. But like, no, like this, that's not what
Speaker 1: this case was about at all. Democratic Senator Tammy Baldwin
Speaker 1: of Wisconsin, the president's administration arresting as sitting judge is
Speaker 1: a gravely serious and drastic move. Well, yeah, because that's
Speaker 1: what happens when you do when the judge breaks the law,
Speaker 1: and it threatens to breach the various separations of power.
Speaker 1: Separation of power doesn't mean judges are immune from criminal law.
Speaker 1: You can't break the law if you're a judge. In fact,
Speaker 1: if anything, you're really expected to uphold the law because
Speaker 1: you're one of the people who upholds the law. Amy Klobuchar,
Speaker 1: the administration's arrest of assisting judge sitting judge in Wisconsin
Speaker 1: is a drastic move that threatens the rule of law. No,
Speaker 1: it upholds the rule of law because the judge broke
Speaker 1: it and a jury was convinced of this. So it
Speaker 1: was all partisan nonsense. It was all hand waving away
Speaker 1: criminal acts by the judge, an attempt to demonize the FBI,
Speaker 1: and the administration. Justice has been done here. This is
Speaker 1: really good, This is really satisfying. I wonder if any
Speaker 1: of these Democratic senators want to weigh in now say, oopsie,
Speaker 1: never mind, I guess you know, I guess you really
Speaker 1: did break the law. This wasn't really an attack on
Speaker 1: the independent judiciary. Blah blah blah. So satisfying, but also
Speaker 1: kind of a little bit infuriating that the judge thinks
Speaker 1: she could thought she could do this, thought she could
Speaker 1: get away with it, and that so many Democrats and
Speaker 1: chunk of the media rushed to her aid to hand
Speaker 1: wave away the fact that she did something blatantly illegal
Speaker 1: because they really couldn't stand the administration's policies.
Speaker 3: No, that's exactly right, and hopefully it disabuses any other
Speaker 3: judges of similar ideas if they have an illegal immigrant
Speaker 3: in their courtroom. I mean, she's got a guy not
Speaker 3: convicted of whatever assault charges he was in there for
Speaker 3: in the first place. But it's not exactly that. You're
Speaker 3: you know, letting the valedictorian out, and even then it
Speaker 3: would still be violating the law clearly. And at the
Speaker 3: end of your peace on this in the Jolt today,
Speaker 3: you quote New York Times columnist David Brooks, who is
Speaker 3: on PBS and said that Dugan's alleged actions this is
Speaker 3: back earlier.
Speaker 1: In the year.
Speaker 3: Quote it strikes me as maybe something illegal, but it
Speaker 3: also strikes me as something heroic. No, it's definitely illegal,
Speaker 3: and it's not heroic. Breaking the law is not heroic,
Speaker 3: especially in this case.
Speaker 1: Not to hear at all credit here was half right.
Speaker 1: The illegal part.
Speaker 3: Is definitely illegal.
Speaker 1: Jury did not buy the heroic argument. Yeah, it just
Speaker 1: is is a general sense of like we've we've talked
Speaker 1: about I think was it was it Mark Levin who
Speaker 1: wrote are robed masters? Right? In this idea of people
Speaker 1: legislating from the bench, you know this this sense of
Speaker 1: judges believe that, you know, because of this, they are
Speaker 1: to quote the notable jurist Judge dread As performed by
Speaker 1: Sylvester Saloon, that that basically they once you're once you
Speaker 1: have the black robe on, you decide what the law is. No,
Speaker 1: that's not the casis. By the way, if a judge
Speaker 1: wanted to say to Ice, I'm I'm holding court, I
Speaker 1: am you know this person is on trial in front
Speaker 1: of me for an unrelated thing. Don't arrest this person
Speaker 1: in my that strikes me as fair. Right, you can't
Speaker 1: arrest in the courthouse. That does not strike me as fair.
Speaker 1: And for obvious reasons, law enforcement loves, and I says,
Speaker 1: love to arrest somebody in courthouses because they've already been
Speaker 1: through a magnetometer. You know, this person doesn't have a knife.
Speaker 1: You know, this person doesn't have a gun. You know,
Speaker 1: like courthouses are great places to arrest people because they're
Speaker 1: already in the courthouse. It's a short trip, you know,
Speaker 1: So just it just seemed like a that in the end,
Speaker 1: the judges don't like what the law says and therefore
Speaker 1: believe they can overrule it. But that's not the role
Speaker 1: of judiciary in this country.
Speaker 3: That's exactly it well said. And we're gonna talk more
Speaker 3: about how legal immigrants are benefiting from public officials who
Speaker 3: aren't doing their jobs, all right, But before we do that,
Speaker 3: let's talk about your liver. Gotta stay healthy. I know
Speaker 3: some people are gonna spike the egg now. I get
Speaker 3: the holiday parties and other things are going to be
Speaker 3: passed around, maybe, but you know, try to try to
Speaker 3: keep it all in proportion, you know, you know, it's
Speaker 3: easier than fixing a problem not having the problem in
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Speaker 1: You know, Greg, it's the holiday season, people have parties, beer, wine, cocktails,
Speaker 1: or maybe local judges and prosecutors are driving you to drink.
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Speaker 3: All right, from Wisconsin, we moved to Virginia and this
Speaker 3: is courtesy of the Free Beacon. An illegal immigrant from
Speaker 3: l Salvador was arrested Wednesday after police say he shot
Speaker 3: a man to death inside arrest in Virginia home, just
Speaker 3: one day after being released from jail. Authorities identified the
Speaker 3: suspect as twenty three year old Marvin Morales Ortes, who
Speaker 3: Ice confirmed is in the country illegally. Fairfax County police
Speaker 3: launched a manhunt after the shooting, eventually apprehending him following
Speaker 3: a search involving drones, canine units, and helicopters. Morales Ortes
Speaker 3: had been released from jail Tuesday after prosecutors drop charges
Speaker 3: stemming from an alleged gun brandishing and assault case. By Wednesday,
Speaker 3: police say he was back on the street and allegedly
Speaker 3: committed a homicide. Fairfax County Police later disclosed they had
Speaker 3: obtained an emergency custody order to detain morales or Tes
Speaker 3: after his release, but were unable to locate him before
Speaker 3: the order expired. Court records indicate that morales or Tes
Speaker 3: had been charged with at least seven crimes in Fairfax
Speaker 3: County since twenty twenty. So, Jim, the guy's got seven
Speaker 3: crimes already on his record, or at least arrested for
Speaker 3: seven crimes. The prosecutor again, we got an assault in
Speaker 3: a brandishing of open Eh, We're not gonna do anything.
Speaker 3: We'll just let him go. Ice tries to issue a
Speaker 3: hey hold on to this guy, We're coming. We know
Speaker 3: you've got him in custody. No gotta let him go. Sorry, Ice,
Speaker 3: And then this guy's roommate ends up dead. Well done,
Speaker 3: Fairfax County Prosecutor's Office. Well done.
Speaker 1: So when I first heard about this story, Greg, I
Speaker 1: was infuriated, even like just blisteringly angry. Most notably, I
Speaker 1: clicked through and I read the ABC seven local ABC
Speaker 1: affiliate report. Among those charges you mentioned, you know, seven
Speaker 1: arrests since since twenty twenty a first degree murdered charge
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one. He spent a year and a
Speaker 1: half in jail while he awaited trial. It was ultimately
Speaker 1: determined he was not involved in the murder and charges
Speaker 1: were dropped with someone else being convicted in the case.
Speaker 1: So if he didn't actually do it, fine, But the
Speaker 1: only time he was found guilty in any of the
Speaker 1: cases was charged was for theft. He was fined three
Speaker 1: hundred dollars. Court records indicate he never paid Greg Is
Speaker 1: that cop, Like, when the government says you are fined,
Speaker 1: is it optional? Do you just tempt to pay it? Like?
Speaker 3: Shouldn't be?
Speaker 1: All right? The other thing is is I had up
Speaker 1: until now thought that if I assaulted someone, if I
Speaker 1: murdered someone, if I brandished a weapon, then you know,
Speaker 1: the cops would arrest me, and the federal you know Fairfax,
Speaker 1: he got he prosecuted, offers We're like, well, this guy's dangerous,
Speaker 1: this guy's that We're going to punish him by prosecuting him,
Speaker 1: getting a conviction and putting him in jail. And apparently
Speaker 1: not so much. Apparently, like the other they might be like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it happens, it's okay, dropping the charges go, you know,
Speaker 1: just don't do it again. So I guess we all
Speaker 1: get one free murder here in this county. So okay,
Speaker 1: all right, I know now if that is the deal,
Speaker 1: I mean, I got a long list of people I'd
Speaker 1: like to bump off, but I can narrow it down.
Speaker 1: I could pick one. I get it, do the deed,
Speaker 1: and the prosecutor's off just gonna say, hey, tisk, tisk,
Speaker 1: We're gonna find you three hundred dollars. But you only
Speaker 1: have to pay it if you feel like it, to
Speaker 1: be honest, if it's optional, I'm not really. It's kind
Speaker 1: of like the was it the FEC box you have
Speaker 1: to check out your tax return? Did you want some
Speaker 1: of your money to go to the matching funds? You know?
Speaker 1: Do you feel like paying this fine? Check the docs? No?
Speaker 1: And what what are they gonna do? Put you in jail?
Speaker 1: It's what is that their job? Okay? Technically yes, that
Speaker 1: is their job. So anyway, so good job Ice, I'm
Speaker 1: finally catching this guy. Terrible job by Fairfax County Police,
Speaker 1: and I you know, look, I know, cops have a
Speaker 1: tough job. I imagine if you're a beat cop, and
Speaker 1: I imagine if you arrest somebody. It must be utterly
Speaker 1: infuriating to watch a prosecutor say, yeah, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to do this one. Whether it's for ideological reasons or
Speaker 1: laziness or they're not. You know, they're worried about whether
Speaker 1: they're gonna be able to get a conviction, and they've
Speaker 1: got a really good conviction rate. They don't want to
Speaker 1: reduce that rate by taking on the harder cases. I
Speaker 1: don't know. It just is infuriating and I but don't worry.
Speaker 1: I will not actually murder someone. I'm not that infuriated.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't think you'd get the freebe Jim. You're
Speaker 3: in the country legally, right.
Speaker 1: You can't let people like that. It's it's only the
Speaker 1: people are in the country illegally where you go.
Speaker 3: Like, eh, you know, yeah, the Fairfax County Prosecutor Discano
Speaker 3: is a far lefty. I don't think he'd cut you
Speaker 3: any slack. But just in case you're thinking, oh, well,
Speaker 3: Virginia'll learn its lesson from this, it's it's going to
Speaker 3: get better now. It's not free Beacon says. This comes
Speaker 3: as Abigail Spanberger, who will become governor next month, has
Speaker 3: said she will rescind Governor Glenn Youngkin's executive order requiring
Speaker 3: state agencies to cooperate with ICE, arguing that tears families
Speaker 3: apart and diverts law enforcement resources. Elections have consequences. Virginia
Speaker 3: was Jim.
Speaker 1: Hey, we glad we had it on such a It
Speaker 1: was a crazy Martini, but it's also a very dark
Speaker 1: and depressing Martini, particularly for those of us who live
Speaker 1: in Virginia.
Speaker 3: Seriously young four years Jim Garretty, National Review. I'm Greg
Speaker 3: Corumbus of Radio America. Thanks so much for being with
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