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Speaker 5: Oh hey, it's your building manager texting you so sorry
Speaker 5: to hear about the death of your praying mantis with
Speaker 5: a cry laughing emoji again, Alie Ward, why the same
Speaker 5: intro because we're back part two of Curiology, dual episodes
Speaker 5: on emoji or emojis. You can say it either way.
Speaker 5: I'm not the boss of you, but we do talk
Speaker 5: about it in part one, so no matter what, start
Speaker 5: with part one. So last week's episode covered emoji versus emoticons,
Speaker 5: how they're actually fonts and not pictures, how they get standardized,
Speaker 5: the meanings of the more mysterious emoji, how meanings change
Speaker 5: very swiftly, and how experts keep track of them without
Speaker 5: wanting to go hide in a cave forever because it's
Speaker 5: too much work. And now this episode we get to
Speaker 5: patron specific questions which were submitted by the folks who
Speaker 5: support the show at patreon dot com slash ologies, but
Speaker 5: you can join for one shiny dollar a month. You
Speaker 5: can also support the show just by telling a friend
Speaker 5: leaving a review. And I read all of them, including
Speaker 5: one just left by Lena the Queen who said that
Speaker 5: they have a tiny dog with dementia who is very
Speaker 5: scurred of thunder and fireworks, but somehow they write, quote,
Speaker 5: I put on a podcast only ologies works, and their
Speaker 5: dog slowly nods off in the blissful sleep of animal
Speaker 5: dreams and length twitches while Ali teaches him things he
Speaker 5: will immediately forget. Lena the Queen, thank you for the review.
Speaker 5: It's an honor to be in his ears and also
Speaker 5: yours and everyone's Okay, Curiology Part two, Let's get into it.
Speaker 5: The etymology and bios of all the guests are in
Speaker 5: the intro of part one. Start there, it's linked right
Speaker 5: in the show notes. But for now, let's talk about
Speaker 5: how many emojis they are, Who uses emojis, what emoji
Speaker 5: have to do with your sex life, introverts versus extroverts,
Speaker 5: representation in emoji, which emoji are coming up soon, the eggplant,
Speaker 5: the ghosts, the bucket, and so much more, with a
Speaker 5: perfect gaggle of Emojipedia editors, past and present, Unicode members, scholars, designers, enthusiasts,
Speaker 5: and curiologists. Because yes, there are three guests again, Jennifer Daniel,
Speaker 5: Keith Broney and Jeremy Burge. Can I ask you some
Speaker 5: questions from listeners?
Speaker 6: Yes? Love a listener question?
Speaker 5: Okay, good, Adam still wants to know as well as
Speaker 5: Amanda Smith, Super Sarah Jenlo Rhodes, first time question asker
Speaker 5: Lena Quinn and Steeping Films wanted to know, in Adam's words,
Speaker 5: what was the first emoji? Steeping Films aka Erica who
Speaker 5: will wants to know our cave paintings, consider the og emojis.
Speaker 5: When do emoji start?
Speaker 6: So Emojipedia started twenty and thirteen, so we only had
Speaker 6: two and thirteen onwards. Okay, After a few years, it
Speaker 6: became my mission to go back to Japan, and I
Speaker 6: was a good excuse to have some nice sushi, a
Speaker 6: bit of a travel around, but also to track down
Speaker 6: people who were there, because these people are alive today,
Speaker 6: right the people who designed some of the original sets
Speaker 6: and people who worked at these companies and track down
Speaker 6: these earliest phones and pages were the origin in Japan
Speaker 6: and the first emoji that we can track back. And
Speaker 6: I'm always happy to revise this if we find earlier.
Speaker 6: But the first emoji we could track back was to
Speaker 6: a pager in nineteen ninety seven, which was a love
Speaker 6: heart really one a single emoji on the whole pager.
Speaker 6: You could beep through a message and then put a
Speaker 6: heart there if you wanted to.
Speaker 5: Doesn't that say everything about what humans can be?
Speaker 6: We should have stopped there.
Speaker 5: Do you have a horror that you like? Because you
Speaker 5: know how, there's a heart that's in the deck of cards.
Speaker 5: There's the red heart, there's the sparkle heart. Some people
Speaker 5: just do a light white heart.
Speaker 6: They do. Yeah, I remember John Mayer. I think I
Speaker 6: was joking about only using the cards based heart because
Speaker 6: it was more manly or something. But I'd always got
Speaker 6: people taking it. It's the Internet, but then people take
Speaker 6: it seriously than that. He a message of mojiped to
Speaker 6: be like John May is over here saying this is
Speaker 6: the only alpha Hart tell him he's wrong. He was
Speaker 6: clearly joking. It was a funny tweet. No, I'm more
Speaker 6: than happy with the red love heart. I'm happy to
Speaker 6: share that around. I know some people feel a bit
Speaker 6: squeamish and they go, oh, it's a bit corporate. Can't
Speaker 6: send a love heart, might send the wrong message. I'll
Speaker 6: send a blue heart. Blue heart turned out to be
Speaker 6: the corporate heart when we did an analysis at Emojipedia.
Speaker 6: No corporate like brands use the blue heart more than
Speaker 6: any of the others. There's very little difference Otherwise, they
Speaker 6: mostly just get a random mix where they're all popular.
Speaker 6: The black one gets some goth associations.
Speaker 5: I get it. Okay, this came up talking to Jennifer
Speaker 5: because y'all, I am a champion for that emoji. I
Speaker 5: love the black Heart. When the black Heart came out,
Speaker 5: I was like.
Speaker 7: Finally, how do you use the black Heart?
Speaker 5: The black Heart is definitely with a certain subset of friends.
Speaker 5: I feel like it's my old school friends people have
Speaker 5: no longer people that I was goth with. Definitely, sometimes
Speaker 5: if I'm tweeting about a bug or a spider or
Speaker 5: an affinity for something, you know what I mean, that's
Speaker 5: a little bit more of an underdog culturally, some kind
Speaker 5: of critter than it's definitely getting the black cart for sure.
Speaker 5: More on the chromatics of curiology in a bit, but first,
Speaker 5: which one is Jeremy's favorite? We all have a favorite heart, right,
Speaker 5: I feel like I know this in my own real heart.
Speaker 6: I just like the red one, although my favorite the
Speaker 6: red one with the little dot underneath it's a hot exclamation. Mack, No,
Speaker 6: is that what That's what that's meant? No one knows
Speaker 6: that's what it is, but that's what it is. And
Speaker 6: that's how I use it. Whereas I'm sending an excited
Speaker 6: message where I'm happy and it's something I like, I
Speaker 6: might finish it off with the hot exclamation mark at
Speaker 6: the end.
Speaker 7: I've been using the pink heart with sparkles. I really
Speaker 7: love using the hearts with other sort of gestural emoji,
Speaker 7: Like there's this explosion emoji. I think it's called collision.
Speaker 7: It is really spiky. Uh huh yeah, heart exploding oh
Speaker 7: next to each other.
Speaker 5: Okay, so there are well over twenty different heart emoji
Speaker 5: options growing all the time. There's so many ways to
Speaker 5: say I like you, I almost love you, or wait no,
Speaker 5: I'm obsessed with you, but in a devoted and safe
Speaker 5: and not possessive way, or thank you for buying our sandwiches.
Speaker 7: There's a lot of them.
Speaker 5: And there's a new pink one, right, Yes, there's.
Speaker 7: Three new colored hearts, like blue, gray, and pink.
Speaker 5: Oh wait, why the gray heart.
Speaker 7: So we did a big analysis cross linguistic color theory,
Speaker 7: and I mean this is what makes the emoji work
Speaker 7: continually interesting. Okay, So if you look at literature in
Speaker 7: cross linguistic study, it suggests that there's a maximum of
Speaker 7: eleven basic color terms, okay, and as languages kind of develop,
Speaker 7: the names for these colors become present in the language.
Speaker 7: So stage one would be dark cool, and light warm,
Speaker 7: so things like black and white. And then the next
Speaker 7: phase is red, and then then third phase is either
Speaker 7: green or yellow, and the fourth phase is both green
Speaker 7: and yellow. The next phase is blue than brown, and
Speaker 7: then the last one is purple, pink, orange, and gray.
Speaker 5: Okay, just a color theory wormhole side note for context
Speaker 5: and also intrigue. All right, So a lot of things
Speaker 5: happened in nineteen sixty nine, such as moon landings and
Speaker 5: woodstock and your grandparents smoking hash. But another event was
Speaker 5: the publication of Basic Color Terms, their universality and evolution,
Speaker 5: which was written by anthropologist Overton Brent Berlin and linguist
Speaker 5: Paul k. Okay. This was a big deal because it
Speaker 5: was the first major global study of hey, what do
Speaker 5: you call this color? In a bunch of different languages,
Speaker 5: and essentially, Berlin and k found that different cultures have
Speaker 5: more or fewer words for colors, but they tend to
Speaker 5: add them in the same order. As Jennifer said, you
Speaker 5: got two words for color, you probably say in black
Speaker 5: and white, you got three words for color. You probably
Speaker 5: identified red. Next colors that are added to language typically
Speaker 5: are green or yellow. Then blue tends to get adopted
Speaker 5: into the language, and then you're browns. And then the
Speaker 5: last major color words to be added linguistically are usually
Speaker 5: purples and pinks and oranges and gray. Now English has eleven,
Speaker 5: which Berlin and k noted, where white, black, red, green, yellow, blue, brown, purple, pink, orange,
Speaker 5: and gray. But there are many languages that, for example,
Speaker 5: don't make a hard line between green and blue on
Speaker 5: the chromatic spectrum, and might describe the sky as a
Speaker 5: pale green color or bamboo as a shade of yellow.
Speaker 5: And why even who's talking about this? Who cares? Well?
Speaker 5: I love a mess. And there's a big debate because
Speaker 5: of this paper in terms of the concepts universalism and relativism.
Speaker 5: Berlin and Key argue that humans are all biologically so
Speaker 5: similar that of course we would add colors in the
Speaker 5: same order. They are universalists. Others take the relativism side
Speaker 5: and say that because different cultures may not differentiate between terms,
Speaker 5: the same color perception is really a cultural phenomenon, And
Speaker 5: if you want to fall into a rainbow colored rabbit hole,
Speaker 5: just find the Wikipedia page titled Linguistic relativity and the
Speaker 5: color naming debate, because it is a hot debate, and
Speaker 5: it of course influenced a bunch of emoji experts while
Speaker 5: they were drafting up new hearts.
Speaker 7: So when you're looking at these eleven basic color terms,
Speaker 7: what we were missing were those last two pink and gray.
Speaker 7: And so you know, when there's like how many colors
Speaker 7: exist in the world, how much can the I perceive?
Speaker 7: You have to kind of have a constraint there. And
Speaker 7: so these eleven basic color terms are a way of
Speaker 7: creating a closed set of colors and was amongst them.
Speaker 5: And is that a way for someone to express affection
Speaker 5: or maybe approval in a non horny way, because I
Speaker 5: think gray is the least horny heart. I feel like,
Speaker 5: if your boss sends you a get well soon with
Speaker 5: a gray heart, you're probably not going to take it
Speaker 5: the wrong way, right, I don't know.
Speaker 7: I feel like gray heart is like devoid of color
Speaker 7: and all love. Like oh, and they're like, oh gray heart,
Speaker 7: like you've been drained of everything?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 7: Makes me feel nothing? I feel nothing. I mean, you
Speaker 7: could think of it a couple of different ways. It
Speaker 7: could be a silver kind of thing where you use
Speaker 7: it in that manner. It is also commonly found in
Speaker 7: sports team color spaces. Oh kind of think a sports
Speaker 7: team that has silver, like a Raiders.
Speaker 5: A Raiders would definitely be exactly right. If anyone's out
Speaker 5: there just emojing about the Raiders, they're like, yes, because
Speaker 5: you're not going.
Speaker 7: To get sports mascots within the standard, right, there's no brands,
Speaker 7: there's no logos, So the colored hearts can represent an
Speaker 7: abstraction of your affinity.
Speaker 8: Right.
Speaker 7: It can also be used like silver Fox, like silver
Speaker 7: heart Fox or something kind of goth. I'm thinking like
Speaker 7: black and white films. M hm, you know, like the
Speaker 7: gray heart would work.
Speaker 5: How do you feel about the update with at least
Speaker 5: I messaging where you can respond via holding down the
Speaker 5: message and then you can do an exclamation, you can
Speaker 5: do a question mark. Do you feel like that stole
Speaker 5: the thunder of emojis? Or do you like it's such
Speaker 5: a limited menu.
Speaker 6: I think it's great and helpful, but yeah, you're right,
Speaker 6: there's not enough. I need a clap the very minimum.
Speaker 6: Someone tells you good news, thumbs up, blah awful, hot, nice,
Speaker 6: but still a bit like a bit like you're not
Speaker 6: excited for me, like that's lovely deal.
Speaker 5: Yeah yeah, And the exclamation point sometimes can come off
Speaker 5: as incredulous, like.
Speaker 6: Yeah you won that rude and you're.
Speaker 5: Like, no, no, no, I'm just saying like that's amazing.
Speaker 6: You know, had someone before and nowgo what do you
Speaker 6: make I'll send the X mark is excited and have
Speaker 6: a friend go you what do you mean by that?
Speaker 6: I'm like, what are you talking about? Clearly I'm happy
Speaker 6: for you? What else is this meant to mean? So
Speaker 6: you're right, that needs more options? Clapping and I don't
Speaker 6: like that it says haha, I know laughing crying is cringe,
Speaker 6: but like, just give the option for all of them.
Speaker 6: There are some iOS updates coming this year allowing you
Speaker 6: to do more with a whole set. That was something
Speaker 6: announced last week, So later in the year there'll be
Speaker 6: more options done a bit differently, but the same sort
Speaker 6: of idea.
Speaker 5: Oh that's so good to know, okay, because I need that.
Speaker 5: Some people. Lee, Katy Murray, and Abbie and Scarlet Ponder
Speaker 5: all asked about people who use more emojis. Lee wants
Speaker 5: to know if there's certain personality types that use them more.
Speaker 5: Katie said that they once read that people who use
Speaker 5: more emojis are more sexually frustrated and read that that
Speaker 5: means you have a higher IQ. Okay, because you needed
Speaker 5: to know. There was a twenty fifteen study by the
Speaker 5: latted Rutgers University anthropologist are Helen Fisher, and it involved
Speaker 5: analyzing data from over five thousand singles in America via
Speaker 5: match dot com and the TLDR is that, yes, people
Speaker 5: who used emojis did the business more than non emogitarians.
Speaker 5: Fifty four percent of emoji users had sex in the
Speaker 5: year prior. Well, only thirty one percent of non emoji
Speaker 5: users did. And apparently the more emojis used, the more
Speaker 5: sexual happened. Which ones you're asking for a friend? Oh,
Speaker 5: the wink, the smile, and the kiss emojis got the
Speaker 5: most play and doctor Fisher told Time Magazine at the
Speaker 5: time that quote, emoji users don't just have more sex,
Speaker 5: they go on more dates and they are two times
Speaker 5: more likely to want to get married. What And if
Speaker 5: you're like, well, okay, that was eight years ago, we
Speaker 5: should replicate it. Someone did because people care. And in
Speaker 5: twenty nineteen there was a follow up study titled Worth
Speaker 5: one Thousand Interpersonal Words emoji as effective signals for a
Speaker 5: relationship ship oriented digital communication. So they analyzed more survey
Speaker 5: data and found yes, indeed, past a first date, emoji
Speaker 5: use with potential partners is associated with maintaining connection and
Speaker 5: more romantic and sexual interactions. So there you go. But
Speaker 5: what if you're not single or not looking to mingle
Speaker 5: in the nude? So there was another study in twenty
Speaker 5: twenty one entitled tuned In on Sender's Self Revelation. Emoji
Speaker 5: and emotional intelligence influence interpretation of WhatsApp messages and that
Speaker 5: one found that just no matter who you are or
Speaker 5: what you want, emoji in texts act as self revelations
Speaker 5: instead of just merely factual exchange, and that emoji may
Speaker 5: provide cues necessary to extract emotional information from texts, and
Speaker 5: emotionally intelligent recipients seem to be especially responsive to that.
Speaker 5: So people are picking up what you are putting down,
Speaker 5: especially in emoji form. So don't be ashamed to use
Speaker 5: something that expresses how you feel, because science says it
Speaker 5: can clear up miscommunications, it can lead to bonding and boning.
Speaker 5: Because of bonding, Scarlett Ponder said that they often have
Speaker 5: moments when they say I really struggle to pick an
Speaker 5: emoji face it feels like it fits my current emotion.
Speaker 5: I'm neurodivergent slash autistic, and I wondered if my struggle
Speaker 5: to find the correct emoji could be related to my
Speaker 5: differences in how I feel an express emotion. You know,
Speaker 5: do you ever hear that different people gravitate toward emojis differently?
Speaker 6: We definitely had a lot of neurodive division people appreciating
Speaker 6: emojipedia because they lack the fact that said, here's this
Speaker 6: face and here's what it means. And obviously there's some
Speaker 6: wiggle room there, but that was a popular use for it.
Speaker 5: Who do you think is drawn to them?
Speaker 8: More?
Speaker 6: Right? People want to put people in a box and
Speaker 6: figure out which age group uses emojis the most, men
Speaker 6: or women, And it's very hard to get good data
Speaker 6: on this sort of thing, especially as so much of
Speaker 6: its in private chats that we don't have access to.
Speaker 6: My impression is that it's people who are better communicators,
Speaker 6: more sensitive, possibly leaning towards women, which makes sense, but
Speaker 6: it's hard to get the data to back that up.
Speaker 6: That's that's my opinion, having seen the types of users
Speaker 6: we get attends to people who care about being clear
Speaker 6: in their emotions. They want to have it and they're
Speaker 6: not afraid in some tech older men. I think it's
Speaker 6: not as much of a thing now, but we used
Speaker 6: to get some angry, older sort of tech commentators who
Speaker 6: think one of them blocked us on the endicta just
Speaker 6: for I don't know, just sort of calling it a
Speaker 6: thing for only for kids that just get personally upset
Speaker 6: by it. And that was only ever saw men get
Speaker 6: upset by that. I never saw women going dah emojis.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay, So let's take the twenty eighteen paper through
Speaker 5: a gender lens learning usage patterns of emoji from large
Speaker 5: scale Android users. So researchers did see a statistical difference
Speaker 5: between how different genders used emojis, to the point that
Speaker 5: given just the emoji in a message, no text, an
Speaker 5: AI could accurately predict thisender gender eighty one percent of
Speaker 5: the time. How how did they do that? What's the tell? Well,
Speaker 5: the laugh cry emoji was the most popular emoji across
Speaker 5: all genders, but men tended to favor the streaming tears
Speaker 5: emoji more than women, and men toss in the monkey
Speaker 5: with covered eyes one more. But the blushing, smile less
Speaker 5: frequently than women. Okay, what about other genders? Are just
Speaker 5: our personalities, all right? There was a twenty eighteen publication
Speaker 5: mining the relationship between emoji usage patterns and personality, and
Speaker 5: it looked at get this one point one three billion tweets,
Speaker 5: and it found that the folks using more emoji they
Speaker 5: had to have been like the loud heart on sleeve,
Speaker 5: heart eyes on sleeve extroverts. Right, No, the people using
Speaker 5: more emojis introverts, and the researchers say introverted people tend
Speaker 5: to use more emoji because they prefer implicit visual contexts
Speaker 5: over iplicit texts where they have to express themselves more directly.
Speaker 5: So introverts use more emojis. Are you an extrovert, well,
Speaker 5: you might use them as well, but go for the
Speaker 5: more positive leaning emojis. And people who score high on
Speaker 5: agreeableness and personality tests use emoji to lighten the mood
Speaker 5: and add humor. But if you're neurotic, for example, if
Speaker 5: you're me, we tend to use more exaggerated and emotion
Speaker 5: rich abojis, which is just brutally accurate. Anyone who has
Speaker 5: received a text for me has probably gotten the anguished face,
Speaker 5: one like the wailing, open mouthed, crying one. You know
Speaker 5: you've gotten that for me, I'm on a deadline anguish face.
Speaker 5: Are we at a Lacroix anguish face? Me admitting this
Speaker 5: anguish face? Plus maybe like a little thumbs up emoji?
Speaker 5: And then maybe I send one that's a wink like okay.
Speaker 5: Scarlet Pondra and Keaton Sant both had questions along that line.
Speaker 5: Keaton one shadow, when will it finally be considered professional
Speaker 5: to use emojis and email else? Because a girl can
Speaker 5: only use so many exclamation marks before I seem insane?
Speaker 5: So what about in corporate settings? In professional settings, is
Speaker 5: the tide turning where it is appreciated that you send
Speaker 5: a skull or a question mark or shrug emoji?
Speaker 6: I think people wait for the first person. No one
Speaker 6: wants to be the first one to send it, and
Speaker 6: once the floodgates are open, and then it goes back
Speaker 6: and forth a bit. So I'm sure it depends on
Speaker 6: your workplace, don't put it in your contract law or whatnot.
Speaker 6: But I think we're fine. I don't think anyone who
Speaker 6: is getting annoyed or offended by an emoji in an email,
Speaker 6: I don't know if I want to work with them.
Speaker 5: That's a very good point.
Speaker 6: Yeah, maybe you don't have a choice. Maybe you're in
Speaker 6: a job where you don't have a choice. But I
Speaker 6: say go for it, and if they don't like it,
Speaker 6: they'll duget over it.
Speaker 5: You obviously get a pass you should be using if
Speaker 5: you send an email without an emoji. It seems like
Speaker 5: that would be an issue. But have you seen like
Speaker 5: any kind of corporate culture or workplace culture change toward
Speaker 5: emoji to help clear up misunderstandings anything like that.
Speaker 7: Oh? Absolutely, yeah, for sure. I mean there's just like
Speaker 7: so many different examples that can come to mind. I
Speaker 7: think it's not a unique situation to emoji. I mean,
Speaker 7: even if you go back just a few years, the
Speaker 7: use of punctuation could be seen as unprofessional. Too many
Speaker 7: exclamation points, uh huh really, I don't even know, like
Speaker 7: all caps. And this is again another form of policing
Speaker 7: language and telling people like okay, no, there are rules
Speaker 7: and conventions to subscribe to. But if you look at
Speaker 7: how people play with language, whether it be informal settings
Speaker 7: like maybe work email to informal ones like just having
Speaker 7: a conversation, like the people who play with language tend
Speaker 7: to skew female right, and so it's about policing how
Speaker 7: people speak, and those people who'd like to experiment tend
Speaker 7: to get policed more. But they're also the ones that
Speaker 7: get to explore and try to figure things out and
Speaker 7: be authentic as well.
Speaker 5: Ah, that's such a good point.
Speaker 7: Time I meet someone, it is they always give me
Speaker 7: an example, either something they hate about emoji or something
Speaker 7: I love about emoji. But at the end of the day,
Speaker 7: I think effectively, one of the reasons they're so commonly
Speaker 7: used is because they are functional. They're not very decorative,
Speaker 7: and so because they provide some sort of utility, it's
Speaker 7: hard to argue not using them because they are helpful.
Speaker 7: It's a whole other space about emoji that is worth
Speaker 7: at least acknowledging in some short way, which is the
Speaker 7: video use case. Like you and I talking right now.
Speaker 7: It is so helpful for me to see you nodding
Speaker 7: your head. You're like communicating to me without saying words,
Speaker 7: like you're smiling. I know that we're connecting on some level.
Speaker 7: If this wasn't here, I'd be left to my imagination.
Speaker 7: Oh it's very hard on me. Yeah, that I am.
Speaker 9: Not communicating and that you don't get it. And you know,
Speaker 9: unless I heard laughter, that would be helpful. But you know,
Speaker 9: emoji and digital spaces are this way back channeling in
Speaker 9: the same way as gesture does when someone takes notes.
Speaker 9: When you're talking, you're like, oh, I said something interesting. Yeah, right,
Speaker 9: Like we've evolved to laugh for a reason. Yeah, connect
Speaker 9: with people and to overcome that digital divide. It's not
Speaker 9: that those have to be emoji anymore, but emoji have
Speaker 9: been with us long enough where you don't need to
Speaker 9: reinvent the wheel.
Speaker 7: And then when there's no emoji in there, I feel constipated.
Speaker 5: You're like, what's happening here?
Speaker 7: I think the most person I like what they're saying,
Speaker 7: I have no way of doing it. Yeah, it makes
Speaker 7: a big difference.
Speaker 8: Ultimately, this is something that researchers in the linguistic space
Speaker 8: have been trying to say about, not exclusively Emoji's beIN
Speaker 8: of texting in general is that texting is not pros
Speaker 8: Texting is an attempt to convey speech, naturalistic speech in
Speaker 8: a written format. People are much looser with grammar when
Speaker 8: it comes to texting, and there's a whole different kind
Speaker 8: of tonal register involved. For example, in prose, of course,
Speaker 8: we're always clarifying the manner in which someone is stating something,
Speaker 8: So she said quietly, she said, energetically, she said, with
Speaker 8: a dour expression. Nobody, you know, dictates their emotion in
Speaker 8: a text where you would say fine, he said, disappointedly.
Speaker 8: You know, people will perhaps use parentheses or an emoji.
Speaker 8: They'll use a variety of different paralinguistic tools to try
Speaker 8: and create a sense of emotional context within these, you know,
Speaker 8: text messages or social media posts, this version of writing,
Speaker 8: which is distinct from prose. It's much more casual. And
Speaker 8: what we're doing in those context is attempting to bring
Speaker 8: some of the nonverbal information that we have at our disposal.
Speaker 8: When we're speaking face to face or indeed a visual medium,
Speaker 8: or or even when we're speaking voice to voice over
Speaker 8: a phone, there's so much information that's being conveyed by
Speaker 8: the tone of voice that someone is using, or even
Speaker 8: the pauses that are utilized during a conversation. Emojis are
Speaker 8: our attempt, or rather they're being used as our attempt
Speaker 8: to try and bridge that gap or like fill that
Speaker 8: gap in communication. And that's not to say they're a
Speaker 8: literal one to one analog like, no one is literally
Speaker 8: crying laughing when they use the crying laughing face in
Speaker 8: the same way that no one's flesh is melted off
Speaker 8: their face when they're using the skull. But they are
Speaker 8: semantic cues that we interpret in the same way we
Speaker 8: would posture expression, tone of voice, etc.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 5: I'm going to look and see if there's anyone who
Speaker 5: asked about like dating apps, now you're married.
Speaker 6: I am married. I didn't mean to sound that in
Speaker 6: a sad way. I am married. It's disappointing. I haven't
Speaker 6: got to use the dating apps you have it.
Speaker 5: How long have you been with your partner.
Speaker 6: I've been with my partner since before dating apps. So've
Speaker 6: been together since I was twenty one or so. And
Speaker 6: this is now. Yeah, I guess so.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so you were a relationship predated. Oh no, I
Speaker 5: use too many emojis? Correct during courtship?
Speaker 6: Yeah, we were sort of the days of text message
Speaker 6: and phone call like this is yeah, early days. So
Speaker 6: I missed the whole scene, although definitely a big contingent
Speaker 6: of people looking up emojis for more sixteen year olds
Speaker 6: being like what does this mean? Yeah, what does it?
Speaker 6: Mean when your crush sends you because we get like
Speaker 6: logs through as well of this search field, but when
Speaker 6: people are typing in things literally like yeah, what does
Speaker 6: it mean if your crush sends you this? Well, it
Speaker 6: doesn't mean necessarily anything. Hopefully it's good they're messaging you.
Speaker 1: That's good.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's true. Any communication is good.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Lena Brodsky and Stephanie Truperman wanted to know how often
Speaker 5: do the current emojis get updated, and Stephanie says, just
Speaker 5: curio curiologist for you. Is it random or do they
Speaker 5: do like a quarterly or yearly? Because I sometimes the
Speaker 5: only thing that gets me to update my software on
Speaker 5: my phone is when I'm getting the question mark in
Speaker 5: a box emoji. I'm like, I don't know what the
Speaker 5: fuck you're saying right now? Ye, so I gotta I
Speaker 5: have to turn my phone off and update it.
Speaker 6: It wasn't even built deliberately like that, but it was
Speaker 6: a huge driver. You're right, the social push when you
Speaker 6: get that first message where you don't know what the
Speaker 6: emotion is and it's so ambiguous that especially if you
Speaker 6: get a message that could go either way depending the emoji.
Speaker 6: So yes, the committee approves one list every year, and
Speaker 6: then roughly once a year, each major tech company will
Speaker 6: add the new ones, and they might tweak the appearance
Speaker 6: of some existing ones.
Speaker 5: Do you know what is coming up next? Do you
Speaker 5: hear murmurings like they're working on this?
Speaker 6: You know what? They're pretty? If you care, you can
Speaker 6: look it up. The ones that I have been involved
Speaker 6: in seeing come out, they are out now. The Light
Speaker 6: Pink Heart and the Light Blue Heart. Those were released
Speaker 6: in the most recent update. Those are probably the last
Speaker 6: batch that I was sort of in the committee when
Speaker 6: they were being discussed, and big fan of the pink
Speaker 6: Hot coming out the next day is list. I think
Speaker 6: it's in draft already, and I think I glanced at
Speaker 6: it once, but I'm being too retired to pay attention.
Speaker 6: If you look it up, it's called EMOGI fifteen dot one.
Speaker 6: You can google it. You find a page on unicode
Speaker 6: or emgipedire and it will say the draft list being considered.
Speaker 5: Hell, yes, I look this up and fifteen point one
Speaker 5: the list. It has the upcoming icons and included are
Speaker 5: some cool accessibility ones like a manual wheelchair. There's a
Speaker 5: motorized wheelchair. There's people walking with white canes. There's also
Speaker 5: folks kneeling and nodding and shaking heads. There's that phoenix
Speaker 5: bird that's going to drop. They got a lime, there's
Speaker 5: a broken chain link coming, and also a mushroom, but
Speaker 5: a brown one, not the Amanitas red speckled mushroom kind.
Speaker 5: So these are due to come out September twenty twenty three.
Speaker 5: And if you're listening after that, just know I'm a
Speaker 5: person speaking to you from the past when the only
Speaker 5: emoji that we had for mushroom was a hallucinogenic and
Speaker 5: toxic kind. But finally we're living in a world with
Speaker 5: brown mushroom emoji, which can still be extremely hallucinogenic and
Speaker 5: incredibly toxic. But my cologists, I know you're happier. Who
Speaker 5: isn't happy Probably Betsy, a patron who asked, where are
Speaker 5: the curly ginger girls? Betsy, it's just not our time.
Speaker 5: A bunch of people wanted to know when are redhead's
Speaker 5: gonna get their due?
Speaker 7: So that's so funny. Okay, So, oh.
Speaker 5: Ellie, I'm not a natural redhead. I'm absolutely an impostor.
Speaker 5: This is not genic at all.
Speaker 7: No, this is the answer that really falls short. There
Speaker 7: is a redheaded emoji. I didn't know that, but it
Speaker 7: doesn't apply to all the gestures. So if you look
Speaker 7: in the people section, you got a Baldi, you got
Speaker 7: someone with curly hair, you got a red head. I
Speaker 7: think you even got to like a silver fox in
Speaker 7: there as well. They are more portraits, got it. You
Speaker 7: can't make a red headed doctor, you make a red
Speaker 7: headed face palm. And so this is where the delineation
Speaker 7: between representation of how you look versus representation of how
Speaker 7: you feel. And when you think about how you feel,
Speaker 7: it's not that it is completely divorced from how you look,
Speaker 7: because they are sometimes the same thing. But when it
Speaker 7: comes to emoji, it's a font. How many umlots can
Speaker 7: you add to one character? And so the amount of
Speaker 7: customization that a font can afford you really falls short
Speaker 7: of when you start going into avatar land and you
Speaker 7: want to be able to make something with your the
Speaker 7: gap in your teeth or your color glasses or your
Speaker 7: color hair. And so I subscribe to less realism than more.
Speaker 7: And so rather than adding more more physical attributes to
Speaker 7: our keyboard, because you can never attain actual inclusion if
Speaker 7: you pursue that root. Because how many people are in
Speaker 7: the world. That's how much customization would need to be
Speaker 7: in the keyboard, and so I tend to lean more
Speaker 7: towards deviating from reality and abstraction.
Speaker 6: It's been talked about. It has been talked about a lot.
Speaker 6: And the issue is those numbers, right that you multiply
Speaker 6: out if every person right, so you have hundreds of
Speaker 6: humans already with different skin tones, and right now there's
Speaker 6: skin links to the hair. You get a white person,
Speaker 6: they get dark hair, you get the next skin tone out,
Speaker 6: they get blonde hair, and you go on and you
Speaker 6: go on. But if you wanted to have every combination
Speaker 6: with red hair, you're adding hundreds of new emojis. If
Speaker 6: you had red and curly, hundreds more. Again, and even
Speaker 6: though it seems like no big deal because all the
Speaker 6: modern platforms got filters and stuff, the way emojis are
Speaker 6: done is a font. They're kind of like this old
Speaker 6: school tech where it's loaded in memory the whole time,
Speaker 6: and there are limits on how many you can have
Speaker 6: in a practical sense, and that's all it is. It's
Speaker 6: just a numbers game. And in reality, if you say
Speaker 6: added white hair, curly hair, red hair being three big
Speaker 6: ones that people wanted to see. If you added it
Speaker 6: to every set, it would be literally one hundreds thousands even,
Speaker 6: and that's not what the platforms want.
Speaker 5: How many emojis are there now?
Speaker 6: It's over three thousand. I'm going to say, yeah, over
Speaker 6: three thousand, over three thousand, five hundred even, I'm going
Speaker 6: to say three thousand, six hundred and something.
Speaker 5: It's right around there. Correct, What are the first Apple upgrade?
Speaker 5: Like I remember updating my software.
Speaker 6: You'd have just had a few hundred at that stage.
Speaker 6: But having said that, this thousand sounds really big, but
Speaker 6: so many of them are skin tone variations, gender variations.
Speaker 6: Every human emoji now has eighteen characters because you have
Speaker 6: a little weightlifter person that's very nice, but they're yellow.
Speaker 6: And then you push in hold and you go, okay, great,
Speaker 6: I can make it a man, I can make it
Speaker 6: a woman. I can make it gender neutral, and five
Speaker 6: skin tones and the yellow one. So three thy five
Speaker 6: hundred and something does sound like a lot.
Speaker 5: We get a lot of flavors within that. You do, yeah,
Speaker 5: and who is pushing for that kind of progress? Because
Speaker 5: I feel like once we start to see it on
Speaker 5: the keyboard, it feels like, okay, can this affect social change.
Speaker 6: Right, There was definitely a big few years there where
Speaker 6: no one was in the wrong. Everyone meant well. I
Speaker 6: will say, there was definitely this sort of situation where
Speaker 6: you looked at the keyboard and it made no sense
Speaker 6: because it was just independently made by different people in Japan.
Speaker 6: So you look at it and it ostensibly was sexist.
Speaker 6: You had men in professions. You had a police officer
Speaker 6: as a man, you had a hairdresser as a woman.
Speaker 6: You know, you had a man doing construction, you had
Speaker 6: the woman doing some kind of yoga pose. You know,
Speaker 6: so like it's obvious. You you transport that out of Japan,
Speaker 6: you make it worldwide. You look at the keyboard and
Speaker 6: you go, what is going on here?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: So then, rightly so people complained, and they complain to
Speaker 6: Apple in particular, even though they're not they're one of
Speaker 6: the people in the committee, people from Apple, but also
Speaker 6: people from Google, Microsoft, me I was on the committee
Speaker 6: for a while. Rightly, so people look at that and go,
Speaker 6: that's not fair. Why can't we have men and women
Speaker 6: to all the jobs? And it started a long five
Speaker 6: six seven year trend of trying to patch up things,
Speaker 6: which temporarily helped, but it just added more questions. You
Speaker 6: end up then with going, well, why not red hair?
Speaker 6: Why not curly hair? Why should the women have long hair?
Speaker 6: Women don't have to have long hair? Women? Could you know,
Speaker 6: look what it like however they want to look like,
Speaker 6: which is very valid. It's just trying to fix a
Speaker 6: difficult beginning. So the end result, possibly looking back, should
Speaker 6: have been ditch to the humans, goodbye little humans, take
Speaker 6: the humans out. Ah, So, there's no way we're too diverse,
Speaker 6: there's too many people. The more variations you add, the
Speaker 6: more it looks like you're leaving someone out deliberately. And
Speaker 6: that's fair, I get it. Like I'm not saying have
Speaker 6: only white men are doing the jobs in the list.
Speaker 6: I'm just saying that no matter how many variations you make,
Speaker 6: someone is going to get left out. And maybe in
Speaker 6: those early meetings, maybe it would have been a good
Speaker 6: idea to go, you know what, there's only about eight
Speaker 6: humans at the moment, why don't we just sort of
Speaker 6: bury them? No more humans? But you know that's hindsight
Speaker 6: flags or another issue as well, geopolitical issues that you
Speaker 6: don't think of it. You look at the emoji keyboard
Speaker 6: and you go, oh, cute, where's my flag? But you
Speaker 6: don't think of the difficult discussions around separatist regimes and
Speaker 6: if two different rebelling forces say this is the flag,
Speaker 6: it's just an emoji that. Oh it's complicated. It's complicated.
Speaker 7: So when I am part of the subcommittee thinking about
Speaker 7: what our priorities are, I look a lot at where
Speaker 7: things could be fixed, which is kind of looking backwards
Speaker 7: as a way for us to really really advance and
Speaker 7: move forwards. So, for example, a number of years ago,
Speaker 7: I was texting someone in a meeting. She was standing
Speaker 7: right next to me, and obviously I was shit talking
Speaker 7: the meeting and texted her something like love a good
Speaker 7: man's plain with you know, a person face palmbing, and
Speaker 7: I could see her phone and it rendered as a
Speaker 7: man instead of woman. I know exactly. I was just like,
Speaker 7: what your phone? And so she had an iPhone and
Speaker 7: I had an Android, and I was like, oh, understand
Speaker 7: what's happening here. And so when I looked into it
Speaker 7: code points. It came down to the code points. So
Speaker 7: there was a code point for a man face palming,
Speaker 7: a code point for a woman face palming, and then
Speaker 7: a third code point for face palming gender not specified.
Speaker 7: And what some designers did was they're like, what does
Speaker 7: that mean? Oh, I don't know, I just making a man. No,
Speaker 7: And then for others, I don't know, I was just
Speaker 7: making a woman. So this existed for a long time.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, I did.
Speaker 7: It was like a did a big audit. I said, Okay,
Speaker 7: where are the difference is I'm sending you a Morman,
Speaker 7: you're seeing a person, or I'm sending you a more
Speaker 7: person and you're seeing a merman. And then wrote a
Speaker 7: number of proposals, lots of documentation around the problems that
Speaker 7: was creating and how to fix it. And that's how
Speaker 7: we got our set of gender inclusive emoji. Was the
Speaker 7: It's already existed, So Paul Hunt was the original proposal
Speaker 7: of those code points. But the problem was in the implementation.
Speaker 7: No one knew what to do with that. I don't
Speaker 7: know what this means. And so now we have these
Speaker 7: gender inclusive designs. One of the first things I did
Speaker 7: was this big audit and we added a lot of
Speaker 7: new characters for it. But it didn't stop there. Right
Speaker 7: when you start looking at skin tone, I would you know,
Speaker 7: like all the hands have skin tone except for handshake. Oh,
Speaker 7: to deal with that, right, So now our handshake has
Speaker 7: not just a universal tone applied to it, but you
Speaker 7: can change the left hand on the right hand. We
Speaker 7: also have a number of different couples, different skin tones now,
Speaker 7: et cetera. But the one that was glaring was the
Speaker 7: family emoji.
Speaker 5: Yes, and I love when those came up. It was
Speaker 5: so heartening to see all these different types of families.
Speaker 5: At least. I do feel like when emojis sort of
Speaker 5: go into territory that is more inclusive, I feel like
Speaker 5: it normalizes and makes a society more inclusive, and I
Speaker 5: think that that's so validating and wonderful to see.
Speaker 7: Well, this is the trap that you fall into, is
Speaker 7: that you say, Okay, the atomic family doesn't exist anymore.
Speaker 7: There are many different ways to have a family, So
Speaker 7: we're going to add a bunch of those different ways.
Speaker 7: But the world has changed a lot since those were added.
Speaker 7: Just I don't need less than ten years ago, maybe
Speaker 7: just slightly like around ten years ago. I now like
Speaker 7: even then those were not the most inclusive. I mean,
Speaker 7: they're just really obvious. When you talk about a family,
Speaker 7: what is a family? It doesn't even have to include children.
Speaker 7: It can just be two people. It could be your grandparents.
Speaker 7: It could be two people and a dog. It could
Speaker 7: be one person and three cats.
Speaker 6: Cats, cats, and more cats.
Speaker 7: Your family should not be prescribed by your keyboard. And
Speaker 7: while it is an important symbol, and to your point,
Speaker 7: it's validating to see, I just think that the diversity
Speaker 7: of those families didn't result in inclusion of many others.
Speaker 7: And so when I was looking at the family emoji,
Speaker 7: first I looked at how they were being used, which
Speaker 7: is to say no one uses them. Oh, you look
Speaker 7: at the people category as a whole. At the very
Speaker 7: bottom is families and wrestlers. Wrestlers also amongst the least
Speaker 7: popularly used emoji, So you know, there's a number of
Speaker 7: different things. You know, you then ask why don't you
Speaker 7: use these or why do you use them? Are people
Speaker 7: not using them because there's no skin tone affordance? Is
Speaker 7: it because they're overly specific, like maybe your family has redheads?
Speaker 5: What is it like?
Speaker 7: Is it because it's it's such a literal representation of family.
Speaker 7: If it can't capture your family literally, it falls short.
Speaker 7: One answer to this would be, okay, let's just add
Speaker 7: all the skin tones to these characters, which would result
Speaker 7: in over seven thousand new emoji.
Speaker 5: Ah yeah, because it's so specific.
Speaker 7: Yes, it just and our keyboard's already bloated with slightly
Speaker 7: over three thousand right now, and to add that many
Speaker 7: for an emoji that isn't used very frequently is out
Speaker 7: of sync with just the whole mission. It's so personal, right,
Speaker 7: it's hard. So like one angle is to at all
Speaker 7: of the code points, which I proposed. It was like
Speaker 7: a ten page paper and I was like, here, this
Speaker 7: is what they would look like. And it was kind
Speaker 7: of like you're like, hey, guys, this is what we're
Speaker 7: looking at. Yeah, And the response to that was like, no,
Speaker 7: that's crazy. The plot designers will be designing these family
Speaker 7: emoji for the next three years. If we add this many,
Speaker 7: you know, like, and people don't even use them, we
Speaker 7: can't do it. I was like, well, it's not acceptable
Speaker 7: to have these emoji and our keyboards and they have
Speaker 7: no skin tone support. If it looks like a person,
Speaker 7: according to the Unicode standard, it needs to have skin
Speaker 7: tone support. And so in the next emoji release, we're
Speaker 7: actually removing all signifiers a physical representation from the emoji,
Speaker 7: so what you'll have is more like airport signage kind
Speaker 7: of characters. Like, to adult looking folks you could just
Speaker 7: say that they're bigger, and then to smaller looking people
Speaker 7: could say their children. So we're making them into symbols. Nice.
Speaker 7: That is far more inclusive from a font perspective, not
Speaker 7: an avatar. I think avatars are great, love me an avatar,
Speaker 7: But from a font perspective, the more detail you remove,
Speaker 7: the more you can project yourself onto it.
Speaker 5: Yeah, like a.
Speaker 7: Drawing of a smiley face, I can relate to that
Speaker 7: versus a picture of a very specific man smiling.
Speaker 9: Yeah.
Speaker 7: Leaning more into this space I really do think has
Speaker 7: more benefit to more people than the opposite angle, which
Speaker 7: really upsets every redhead.
Speaker 5: Okay, so I'm a fake redhead, So I feel like
Speaker 5: as a known imposter, I don't really get a vote
Speaker 5: on this, but if they did add it, I'd give
Speaker 5: it a little thumbs up, a little heart, or maybe
Speaker 5: I do a wow reaction. Which side note. If you've
Speaker 5: been on Facebook and hit different reactions, those are called
Speaker 5: react gees. Facebook added those react g's in early twenty sixteen,
Speaker 5: after Slack did it a year earlier, and now all
Speaker 5: kinds of sites from Twitter to LinkedIn offer a menu
Speaker 5: of react geese for the times when typing out, Hey,
Speaker 5: that pisses me off or shipballs man that sucks. I'm sorry,
Speaker 5: just takes too much of our time. So as World
Speaker 5: Emoji Day approaches July seventeenth, you can celebrate these tiny
Speaker 5: pictures you use to avoid confusion and make someone fall
Speaker 5: in love with you. And each week we donate to
Speaker 5: a charity of the ologists choosing, and this week it's
Speaker 5: going to the nonprofit Unicode, a group of mostly volunteers
Speaker 5: who work to make sure emojis are unified and inclusive
Speaker 5: and accessible to all. And they're linked in the show notes.
Speaker 5: And on July seventeenth, which is the date on the
Speaker 5: little tiny calendar in emoji Land, you can raise a
Speaker 5: glass of something to the people who decide what the
Speaker 5: emoji glasses look like. And that donation was made possible
Speaker 5: by sponsors of oologies.
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Speaker 5: Okay, back to your questions, including as promised gossip that
Speaker 5: we can pry out of these experts.
Speaker 6: I don't think the committees to feel like responsibility for
Speaker 6: human communication overall, but I mean it comes up like
Speaker 6: a cockroach emoji was proposed and it got approved, But
Speaker 6: I was sort of a bit concern that sometimes people
Speaker 6: refer to some people as cockroaches in a oh poor way.
Speaker 6: That you can't police how people use something, but you
Speaker 6: still have to weigh it up. Is this more useful
Speaker 6: to lighter than not? There would definitely be ones that
Speaker 6: come along where you kind of think, this is definitely
Speaker 6: intended in a good way, but can it be used
Speaker 6: in a bad way?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 5: It can it be weaponized, right.
Speaker 6: I mean, there's for instance, I guess one I recall
Speaker 6: I don't remember anyone on a committee mentioning this, but
Speaker 6: publicly people would say, well, we are considering proposals for
Speaker 6: a man wearing a wedding dress as an example which
Speaker 6: has been approved. There are now there's a man in
Speaker 6: a wedding dress, a woman in a wedding dress, and
Speaker 6: an ambiguous person in a wedding dress. Some people would
Speaker 6: tell me why people will make fun of the transdand
Speaker 6: of community people might it's a valid concern. I haven't
Speaker 6: actually seen it be used like that, thankfully, but it
Speaker 6: could have been, and you have to weigh it off.
Speaker 5: I wouldn't it's so funny because it's so in the
Speaker 5: eye of the boulder. I'm like, sweet, that's amazing. I
Speaker 5: for one, think that's wonderful, but of course I didn't
Speaker 5: think about its misuse. Also, think about the skin tone
Speaker 5: in your emoji. Do you customize it to the color
Speaker 5: of your skin or do you just leave it as
Speaker 5: the stock color? And why is that the stock color?
Speaker 5: Curly for I wanted to know who decided to make
Speaker 5: the universal character yellow like kind of Simpson's yellow. When
Speaker 5: that was decided, what the universal kind of tone would be,
Speaker 5: what were the discussions, Like, well.
Speaker 7: That predates me. I think you can reasonably assume that
Speaker 7: the yellow is referencing the classic yellow smiley face of
Speaker 7: the sixties. It's also not yellow. It's supposed to be gold,
Speaker 7: but you know, you could look at the Japanese phone carrier.
Speaker 7: Those emoji actually weren't gold at all. They were like magenta.
Speaker 7: So because it was no you know those old Nokia phones. Yeah,
Speaker 7: they were beautiful, but it was a tone that felt
Speaker 7: not realistic, abstracted, and I mean, if I was in
Speaker 7: the room, I'd be looking at legibility, like yellow is
Speaker 7: not terribly legible color. I do think though, that it
Speaker 7: was probably grounded in some convention that existed before it.
Speaker 5: I always figured they just kind of poached that from
Speaker 5: The Simpsons.
Speaker 8: People do feel that the yellow is a synonym for
Speaker 8: whiteness as opposed to being truly neutral, and that is
Speaker 8: perhaps largely informed by how in The Simpsons, you know,
Speaker 8: one of the longest running television programs of all time,
Speaker 8: yellow means white because there is representation of different race
Speaker 8: within the Simpsons, and all those people aren't yellow. They
Speaker 8: have darker skin tones or lighter skin tones, So that
Speaker 8: is a huge element of it as well.
Speaker 5: Can you imagine getting to get a PhD and the
Speaker 5: granularity of these issues. Doctor Alexander Robertson of the University
Speaker 5: of Edinburgh's School of Informatics can So. This doc's PhD
Speaker 5: dissertation from twenty twenty two is titled Expression and Perception
Speaker 5: of Identity through skin Toned Emoji, and in addition to
Speaker 5: outlining the history of emoji invented by Shiki Taka Krita
Speaker 5: in the late nineteen nineties, it also includes very recent
Speaker 5: research about TME or tone modifiable emoji and doctor Robertson
Speaker 5: draws on research from their previously co authored paper black
Speaker 5: or White but Never Neutral? How readers perceive identity from
Speaker 5: yellow or skin toned emoji, which found in their surveys
Speaker 5: and their studies that the yellow handed emoji are not
Speaker 5: in fact perceived as neutral, but as white, and doctor
Speaker 5: Robertson writes, we suggested one possible reason is that the
Speaker 5: yellow color is more visually similar to the lighter tones
Speaker 5: associated with the white identity than to the darker tones
Speaker 5: associated with the black eyedey. However, it is also possible,
Speaker 5: they write that the association with white has less to
Speaker 5: do with visual similarity than with the fact that the
Speaker 5: yellow emoji is the default and within the British socio
Speaker 5: cultural context, white is the historically dominant in default category,
Speaker 5: they write, and yes, we will link doctor Alexander Roberts's
Speaker 5: paper on our website. It's fascinating. Oh and just as
Speaker 5: an overall note from earlier, some folks use the term Caucasian,
Speaker 5: but a lot of people don't know that the very
Speaker 5: word has pretty racist roots. So white works white gets
Speaker 5: the point across. And on that note, patron super Sarah said,
Speaker 5: I figure the yellow smiley face themed emojis are based
Speaker 5: off the original nineteen sixties ish smiley face. Any reason
Speaker 5: why it was yellow or why we continue to use yellow? Well,
Speaker 5: where did the iconic smiley face come from? I feel
Speaker 5: like that was definitely the first emoji that comes to
Speaker 5: people's minds. But where does that fit into like human history?
Speaker 5: Is that from the sixties.
Speaker 6: What I would say is that, yes, there is some
Speaker 6: contest about this, and there are at least two different
Speaker 6: people who claim that this is the original smiley one
Speaker 6: of which you say what you want about this, But
Speaker 6: the Smiley company claims that they have the origin, that
Speaker 6: they are one of the first people, that they are
Speaker 6: now a big company, and it's a as far as
Speaker 6: I can see, there is a long history going back
Speaker 6: more than one hundred years of smiley faces that people
Speaker 6: can find prior an't in print, I think up to
Speaker 6: two hundred years ago. It's just one of those things
Speaker 6: right in parallel. If you show newspaper clippings from different countries,
Speaker 6: who is the inventor? I don't think there's a definitive answer.
Speaker 5: Yeah, okay. So this has a complex kind of juicy history,
Speaker 5: from the very first ever found simple smiley face dating
Speaker 5: back to seventeen hundred BC on a shard of pottery
Speaker 5: found in what's now Turkey, to smiley faces on hand
Speaker 5: signed letters throughout the ages. But really what put the
Speaker 5: smiley on the mat app in nineteen sixty three was
Speaker 5: this New York radio station WMCA, which printed a hand
Speaker 5: drawn smiley face on the school bus yellow sweatshirts, and
Speaker 5: then they passed them out by the thousands, and they
Speaker 5: had influencers of the time like Mick Jagger wearing them.
Speaker 5: And then a year later a guy named Harvey R. Ball,
Speaker 5: who was an art designer for a Massachusetts based insurance company,
Speaker 5: refined that image and put it on a similar yellow background,
Speaker 5: and then the round smiley face's evolution was near complete, until,
Speaker 5: of course, emoji's just took it into a completely different dimension,
Speaker 5: but people still fight about the exact origin in the
Speaker 5: early nineteen sixties, even Harvey R. Ball's two thousand and
Speaker 5: one archived New York Times obituary includes a quote from
Speaker 5: the radio station manager saying that they did it first,
Speaker 5: which it's like anguish face emoji already. Gregory Hayes wants
Speaker 5: to know, very specific, why isn't there a puppet emoji?
Speaker 6: Well, there you go, Yeah, that's always the one. That's
Speaker 6: that's every object on earth could be added. I think
Speaker 6: we're on a slippery slope there of every object. And
Speaker 6: it happens, you know, you add one thing, you add
Speaker 6: another thing, and then people go, well, there's no puppet,
Speaker 6: and thin it's an okay idea. I think puppets could
Speaker 6: be fun. What type would it be though? Would it
Speaker 6: be a marionette puppet or would it be a sort
Speaker 6: of a hand up the puppet up there, I'm gonna say,
Speaker 6: but the sock sort of thing. I think a sock
Speaker 6: one would be fun. A sock one would be good,
Speaker 6: be cute and fun.
Speaker 5: I think you're right, And Violet Sarah had a great
Speaker 5: question should be on the board. Why are some obvious
Speaker 5: emojis missing, like a squirrel or a shovel, but other
Speaker 5: emojis have duplicates, like a paper clip and two paper clips.
Speaker 6: Yeah, all the worst decisions were mostly inherited. So there's
Speaker 6: a weird thing where there is the first emoji set
Speaker 6: from Japan. The second kind of batch that came in
Speaker 6: mostly came from Windings, the A font on Windows. Yes,
Speaker 6: so for instance, Japan might have had the one paper clip,
Speaker 6: Windings might have had two, and they all got merged
Speaker 6: into a big set. That's why there's so many boats
Speaker 6: and trains and things, because we used for timetables in
Speaker 6: Japan to message them out. So that's why there's so
Speaker 6: many useless or duplicated ones from the early days. As
Speaker 6: to why there's not things that you actually want and
Speaker 6: useful things. I think a spader a shovel would be good.
Speaker 6: I think maybe that might be on a list already.
Speaker 6: I'm not sure. I'd have to check. I have a
Speaker 6: look at that one. But yeah, there's plenty you go through.
Speaker 6: There are still lots that you could add. It's just
Speaker 6: where you draw it alone.
Speaker 5: I mean, everyone loves a garden tool, right, I mean,
Speaker 5: like everyone there is a bucket emoji.
Speaker 7: There's a bucket emoji?
Speaker 5: Is it your favorite?
Speaker 7: If you cannot tell from the timeline voice, its inclusion
Speaker 7: is not my favorite.
Speaker 5: How did it come to be?
Speaker 7: Let's just call it an experimental phase where lots of
Speaker 7: things were added to the keyboard.
Speaker 5: At one point, well, one listener asked why there wasn't
Speaker 5: a shovel emoji. And it is for us that there's
Speaker 5: a bucket emoji, but not a show shovel.
Speaker 7: Okay, I will defend shovel or a bucket because it's
Speaker 7: an action, it's a verb. There could be more verbs
Speaker 7: in the vernacular of the emoji space. And there's no
Speaker 7: real like really old school GeoCities, gifts of construction, like
Speaker 7: the site is under construction. Yes, yes, there's some really
Speaker 7: good but modern contemporary associations with a shovel as well
Speaker 7: as just like the concept of digging. I mean we
Speaker 7: have a whole. There is a whole emoji.
Speaker 5: Yes, I enjoy that. When lot hold on Super Sarah
Speaker 5: Craig Collins, what's to deal with the creepy floating guy,
Speaker 5: the jumping SKA man levitating suit, what's.
Speaker 6: Up with that winding from Windings? Okay, a ghost from
Speaker 6: Windings yep, yep.
Speaker 5: This person, by the way, does not respond to jumping
Speaker 5: skamand but rather man in business suit levitating emoji and
Speaker 5: was based off of this glyph from a dingbat font
Speaker 5: that was based off the logo for two Tones Records,
Speaker 5: who based it off of a Jamaican reggae artist, Peter Tosh,
Speaker 5: whose birth name was Winston Hubert Macintosh and apparently he
Speaker 5: was named after Winston Churchill, so he was like, yeah, no,
Speaker 5: you can just call me Peter. But back to wing
Speaker 5: Dings dingbat glyphs. Okay, what in the mouthful am I saying?
Speaker 10: So?
Speaker 5: Wing Dings is a font full of ding bats, and
Speaker 5: dingbats are ornamental glyphs been around forever, even in the
Speaker 5: printing press, and glyphs are characters or pictograms. Now, the
Speaker 5: guy who designed the wing Dings glyph for Jump that
Speaker 5: has now become the man in business suit levitating emoji
Speaker 5: is one Vincent Kanari and he is also the daddy
Speaker 5: of the font comic Sans. And apparently Vincent does not
Speaker 5: give a poop emoji that you hate comic Sans because
Speaker 5: comic Sans has been on all kinds of book covers,
Speaker 5: laminated menus, and even the Pope's photo album, and Vincent
Speaker 5: calls comic Sans the greatest joke he's ever told. He
Speaker 5: also created side note the font trey Bouchet, which I
Speaker 5: love and I only recently found out was named after
Speaker 5: a medieval catapult. But yes, who isn't a little horny
Speaker 5: for these tiny little pictures of history?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 5: Speaking of so many people? Lauren scaliborealis Hi Scala r
Speaker 5: J Deutsche Kitty Cat eighty one Allison Brooks First, no
Speaker 5: question asker wanted to know, in Allison's words, who coined
Speaker 5: the eggplant emoji for not.
Speaker 6: Eggplant, penis meaned penis.
Speaker 5: And is coining an emoji a thing like it is
Speaker 5: for a phrase? When did the eggplant start meeting?
Speaker 6: Oh, Dick, Yeah, that's a great question, and I don't
Speaker 6: know the answer to that. That happened very early on.
Speaker 6: I think that was happening pre Emojipedia, which made it
Speaker 6: very hard to trace back. Wasn't happening in Japan as
Speaker 6: far as I could see. It was an outside Japan thing,
Speaker 6: But it was very early days, like people just sold
Speaker 6: that and went that is phallic, We're going to use
Speaker 6: it this way.
Speaker 5: It's a strip, it's utilitarian, yes, okay, And when this
Speaker 5: aubergine emoji made its grand debut on Japanese keyboards in
Speaker 5: two thousand and seven, it was an instant classic. It
Speaker 5: then wiggled its way into global keyboards a few years later,
Speaker 5: but it's just very hard to trace the first use
Speaker 5: of it as a dong or the peach as a butt,
Speaker 5: although Emojipedia has noted that the eggplant emoji is popularly
Speaker 5: paired with the peach emoji, which is often used to
Speaker 5: represent buttocks or female genitalia, which on one hand, I'm like,
Speaker 5: avolva is not butt cheeks With all these emojis, can't
Speaker 5: we differentiate the two? But on the other hand, I
Speaker 5: think it's kind of a nice, sweet universal symbol for bottoming.
Speaker 5: Which you can explain all of this to your aunt
Speaker 5: on Facebook, but she's probably not shocked. She probably smoked
Speaker 5: hash watching the moon landing. Nothing matters. Also, this research
Speaker 5: did lead me to a twenty nineteen linguistics paper called
Speaker 5: Emoji as Digital Gestures that learned me that the okay
Speaker 5: sign does not immediately connote positivity, and in Greece, Turkey,
Speaker 5: and Southern Italy it means asshole, So I'm like oh,
Speaker 5: that could be a butthole emoji, but no, it's been
Speaker 5: co opted by fascists and I hate that. So there
Speaker 5: goes our universal butthole emoji. Huh rumf oh. On that topic,
Speaker 5: Michael Swords, Slayer, and Jen wanted to know about unintended meetings,
Speaker 5: and Slayer asked what do they do when certain emojis
Speaker 5: cough purple vegetables cough developed meanings behind their intended Michael
Speaker 5: Swords wrote that the gay community has started to use
Speaker 5: the eggplant and peach to identify their sexual roles. Drug
Speaker 5: communities have used ice cream to suggest that they're looking
Speaker 5: for meth. Did you know that? I didn't know about
Speaker 5: ice cream?
Speaker 7: Ice cream one.
Speaker 2: I didn't know that.
Speaker 5: But when it comes to Unicode talking about the eggplant,
Speaker 5: how often does the eggplant and the peach come up
Speaker 5: for butts and dicks?
Speaker 6: Like?
Speaker 5: How often is that talked about? Because we all know
Speaker 5: that that's what I've bought my husband a pair of
Speaker 5: crocs and I got him crock charm that are like
Speaker 5: a peach and eggplant, of course, but how acknowledged is
Speaker 5: that behind the scenes?
Speaker 7: Well, you know, I mean, this is a thing about
Speaker 7: people taking an image and giving it meaning. You know,
Speaker 7: peaches haven't always meant butts, right right, yeah right, because
Speaker 7: it was drawn in such a specific way that you
Speaker 7: were just like, that's a butt. Also, it is from
Speaker 7: a place of need, right, You're you want if people
Speaker 7: are sexting, people are saying nasty, you know that you
Speaker 7: know they're saying the things that they're saying, and there's
Speaker 7: no butt emoji. I mean you could do the ASKI
Speaker 7: butt perenne underscore asterix underscore paren which is verbose for texting.
Speaker 7: Who wants to find all that symbols? So you take
Speaker 7: something and you give it new meaning, and that is language.
Speaker 7: I mean, that is just mind's interacting with each other.
Speaker 7: And I think that's amazing. Saying for eggplant there, uh
Speaker 7: I need something really long?
Speaker 5: Yeah, not the cucover depending on the context.
Speaker 7: Oh exactly, you can't use the cucumber.
Speaker 11: Now.
Speaker 7: Like, certainly, trying to mitigate risk is something that any
Speaker 7: designer who's working in tech holds themselves accountable to. But
Speaker 7: I don't think like sex and drugs is a reason.
Speaker 7: Like we're not going to abolish the letters w ED
Speaker 7: because of weed.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, no, Like you.
Speaker 7: Can't suppress people in that way. And so from a
Speaker 7: unicode perspective, we are looking at multiple uses. We are
Speaker 7: anticipating use in sequences. We're looking at how it's used
Speaker 7: conventionally throughout history. But just because it wasn't used a
Speaker 7: thousand years ago that way doesn't mean it won't be
Speaker 7: used in the future.
Speaker 6: I don't know.
Speaker 7: I think I love that honestly, you know.
Speaker 5: Yeah, Earl of Gramblekin who came up with the emojis
Speaker 5: of catfaces having emotional reactions to things? And how do
Speaker 5: I thank them for creating the most valuable emojis? Why
Speaker 5: do cats get expressions?
Speaker 6: But dogs?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Dogs yeah?
Speaker 5: To raccoons or possums.
Speaker 6: The original Japanese creators just like the cat ones, they
Speaker 6: had faces, and no one wanted to open the door
Speaker 6: to have every face as every raccoon or dog.
Speaker 5: That makes sense, yep, Jenny Lithfall, what's the black box about?
Speaker 6: Black box was just there as an early character as
Speaker 6: a symbol a place solder, And then now there's colored
Speaker 6: boxes as well, as you can make your own, like askiot.
Speaker 5: But with colors, well, what about the ones that look
Speaker 5: like a mochi ball or rice ball? Then they have
Speaker 5: a black box in them? Have you seen these, Okay,
Speaker 5: So if you go to your emoji keyboard, hit the
Speaker 5: food section that looks like a burger, and then scroll
Speaker 5: a few rows in and next to the gioza and
Speaker 5: raw oyster, there's a white triangle and a brown circle
Speaker 5: and both have black boxes on them. But when you
Speaker 5: type them as a singular message, you know, they get bigger,
Speaker 5: and it's finally clear that.
Speaker 6: There's are snacks. Those are little Japanese treats. That's some seaweed.
Speaker 6: The black thing at the bottom there is the little
Speaker 6: seaweed wrapper like you have aroundy sushi.
Speaker 5: Well, there we go. Buddy Freakin Gyrison for some question,
Speaker 5: Oskar Katie Holtman, Michael Wegman, Tay Samps for some question,
Speaker 5: Osker Becky, the Sasey seagrast scientist, and Ariel Chile Pellegg
Speaker 5: wanted to know what's the future. Buddy wanted to know,
Speaker 5: at what point will our history be represented solely in
Speaker 5: poop emojis and eggplants? Where do you see it going?
Speaker 6: Emojis as we have them today, I think that they're
Speaker 6: stabilizing in a good way. I think we're kind of done.
Speaker 6: I feel like we're kind of tie bowl around it
Speaker 6: add a few more useful ones. Go, that's the set
Speaker 6: cat faces only, no dog faces smiley pooh, yeah, I'll
Speaker 6: finish it off till the say pink Catt was one
Speaker 6: of the last ones that I felt like really needed
Speaker 6: to get over the line. And yeah, you just go. Great,
Speaker 6: We've got three five hundred, three thousand, six hundred, so
Speaker 6: emojis call it a day. That is text. We're moving
Speaker 6: into a video, virtual reality, augmented reality world. So let's
Speaker 6: see what happens over there.
Speaker 5: Well, evolution is inevitable. Yeah so, And that's part of
Speaker 5: the magic of emojis too, is that they don't always
Speaker 5: mean what they meant six months ago. Yes, and that's
Speaker 5: what keeps them exciting.
Speaker 6: It could be a new meaningful one for centuries to come.
Speaker 6: Emojis a permanent Once they're approved, they stick around forever.
Speaker 6: So there's three thousand also to change the meaning of
Speaker 6: whatever you like.
Speaker 5: And Kate Murray had a quick question, could an emoji
Speaker 5: be part of someone's legal name? Does that happen?
Speaker 8: Ooh, I do not believe that is the case. I mean,
Speaker 8: it will really vary depending on jurisdiction, of course, but
Speaker 8: I do not believe that an emoji could be used
Speaker 8: as an element of someone's legal name. That's not to
Speaker 8: say that those rules couldn't change in one jurisdiction, but
Speaker 8: you know, that's by and large fine when you're trying
Speaker 8: to enter your name maybe into a kind of a
Speaker 8: digital text input field. But if you have to sign
Speaker 8: a document, dear lord, you have to get very, very
Speaker 8: artistic every time you want to sign a receipt.
Speaker 5: For example, Pauline Gaines Bloom asked, will we ever see
Speaker 5: emojis become commonplace in literature? And at what point is
Speaker 5: it just part of our language? And you know, Emojipedia
Speaker 5: is just part of the oed. Actually, twenty fifteen, the
Speaker 5: word of the year was the laugh crying emoji. So
Speaker 5: will emojis be commonplace in literature?
Speaker 8: I personally don't see emojis becoming commonplace in literature. I
Speaker 8: think they're going to become more common as a kind
Speaker 8: of playful reflection of the contemporary world. Definitely. I have
Speaker 8: no idea what the number is, but I'd say there's
Speaker 8: been thousands of books published in the last five years
Speaker 8: that when they're representing text messages, they're going to contain
Speaker 8: an emoji within the text. Beyond that, I only really
Speaker 8: envision them entering into the prose space as a kind
Speaker 8: of creative project, and this, of course will never really
Speaker 8: be the norm for the majority of written pieces of literature.
Speaker 8: There is a couple of books out there that I
Speaker 8: do know of that I've played this concept. One of
Speaker 8: the go tos is the quote unquote emoji translation of
Speaker 8: Mobi Dick called Emoji Dick, which again was a creative project.
Speaker 8: It was an exercise in crowd sourcing quote unquote translations
Speaker 8: to represent a variety of different and let's say somewhat
Speaker 8: complex sentences in the English language. So I don't see
Speaker 8: them entering this literature space in a kind of a
Speaker 8: serious commonplace manner.
Speaker 5: How should people celebrate World Emoji Day on the seventeenth.
Speaker 6: Yeah, find an emoji, make a new sex meaning for
Speaker 6: an existing emoji. I think we haven't had a new
Speaker 6: sex emoji for a long time now. I think, find
Speaker 6: an obscure one and find a way to make it
Speaker 6: somehow a bit dirtier than it's meant to be, and
Speaker 6: make that a thing. I think that should be a
Speaker 6: job this year.
Speaker 5: And you started in the private chat, don't launch it
Speaker 5: in slack?
Speaker 6: Oh no, soft launch in the private chat. Yeah, let's
Speaker 6: start there. Possibly it should never make its way to
Speaker 6: the workplace, so you know you've had a success when
Speaker 6: you use it at work and people go, I don't
Speaker 6: think you should be using that one. Yes, I've had
Speaker 6: It's got another meaning.
Speaker 5: It's a great such a good point.
Speaker 8: It's a very very exciting World Emoji Day. So we've
Speaker 8: been hosting World Emoji Day for ten years now. This
Speaker 8: will be its tenth annual celebration on of course July seventeenth,
Speaker 8: the date that is shown on the majority of the
Speaker 8: calendar emoji designs. It's also going to be the tenth
Speaker 8: anniversary of the founding of Emojipedia. I think the earliest
Speaker 8: set we have on the site is nineteen ninety seven
Speaker 8: from one of the Japanese vendors. So yeah, there's a
Speaker 8: lot to celebrate after ten years in this emoji biz.
Speaker 5: And the thing closest to Jennifer's various different colored hearts.
Speaker 7: I love Emoji Kitchen. I love it so very much.
Speaker 7: So one of the things that sucks about working with
Speaker 7: conventional unicode emoji is that you can't experiment. Like I said,
Speaker 7: you can't remove an emoji later. So with Emoji Kitchen,
Speaker 7: It's this way to experiment and be playful and do
Speaker 7: things you can't do with standard moji. So you can
Speaker 7: type in octopus and coffee and wine, and it creates
Speaker 7: an octopus holding a bunch of coffees. Because I love
Speaker 7: the octopus because it has this gesture and it's like,
Speaker 7: how is work today? It was octopus?
Speaker 9: Yeah, I can be like I was work today.
Speaker 7: It was octopus that I had lots of caffeine and
Speaker 7: uh what it was?
Speaker 5: Now you need a weighted blanket.
Speaker 7: Now I be a different type of drink. And there's
Speaker 7: lots of different ways you can combine it, which I
Speaker 7: really and it's all grounded and what I've learned from
Speaker 7: Unicode around how you can combine to emoji next to
Speaker 7: each other, like cartwheeling person next to a hole for
Speaker 7: a nervous breakdown, right, or like Coop and Tornado, you know,
Speaker 7: like a shit storm. For emoji kitchen, there's like a
Speaker 7: number of different ways you can combine things. So you
Speaker 7: can combine the colored hearts with an emoji, and it
Speaker 7: changes its color. So if you wanted like a goth
Speaker 7: heart eyes, so you know, black heart eyes instead of
Speaker 7: red ones. So you could do black heart heart eyes.
Speaker 5: And it creates like goth heart eyes.
Speaker 7: Or if you want your pineapple to be like a
Speaker 7: really nerdy pineapple, you're gonna go face glasses plus pineapple,
Speaker 7: and it puts glasses on the pineapple.
Speaker 5: It's like portmanteau. Geez.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 7: It also is kind of what I'm trying to do
Speaker 7: with it is say like, you don't have to just
Speaker 7: add how we look. This is a feeling like I
Speaker 7: don't know what I want to have for dinner. Burger shrug,
Speaker 7: burger shrug. That's the feeling. I don't want to have
Speaker 7: to be forced to pick how I look when really
Speaker 7: what I want to convey is how I feel. And
Speaker 7: I can't change Unicode on that level, right. I can't say, Okay,
Speaker 7: we're gonna start over from scratch, right, But what I
Speaker 7: can do with Emoji Kitchen is be somewhat provocative about
Speaker 7: how we convey and project ourselves and want to be perceived.
Speaker 7: And so you can use it on Android devices primarily,
Speaker 7: and it just combines when you put two emoji next
Speaker 7: to each other.
Speaker 5: Is there anything for if you're an Apple or a
Speaker 5: different type of phone users are like a website that
Speaker 5: you can go and grab that emoji at.
Speaker 7: All, only illegal ones.
Speaker 5: Ah, okay, good to note, Good to note. I think
Speaker 5: that seems like an amazing part of your job. But
Speaker 5: what is your favorite thing about the job but being
Speaker 5: a curiologist.
Speaker 11: Oh, I just love I really love talking to people
Speaker 11: about how they use emoji. It really is the best
Speaker 11: part because it doesn't matter how old you are, where
Speaker 11: you are, everyone has used them. Everyone has an opinion
Speaker 11: on them, even if it's self deprecating, oh so boring.
Speaker 7: I just use the same emoji.
Speaker 5: Like, there's so many stories that could flashed on.
Speaker 7: My head, but everyone has stories. Like even after our conversation,
Speaker 7: I'm going to be thinking about your black Heart anecdote.
Speaker 8: It's it's such a fascinating space to be working in.
Speaker 8: I genuinely consider it my greatest professional pleasure to have
Speaker 8: kind of meandered away from psychology and ended up in
Speaker 8: this incredibly versatile field that straddled so many academic disciplines.
Speaker 8: But also it's a great personal pleasure to be researching
Speaker 8: how they're evolving over time. Provided that we are continuing
Speaker 8: to communicate in tech based formats, emojis are here to stay.
Speaker 8: It's gone beyond the keyboard, and they're now some of
Speaker 8: the most recognizable symbols in human history.
Speaker 6: I mean, they alleviate the need to exclamation mark. They
Speaker 6: do make it easier to communicate. It's fun, you can
Speaker 6: be playful, you can quickly send your heart, send your
Speaker 6: thumbs up. It's so much easier to get what you
Speaker 6: want to cross. And Yeah, I think it's interesting and fascinating.
Speaker 6: I've always liked the whole shared experience thing, and I
Speaker 6: love the fact it's just such a weird set of
Speaker 6: characters with all these questions and that it doesn't really
Speaker 6: make sense when you look at it as a whole.
Speaker 6: But I just like the fact that the human race
Speaker 6: we came together. We invented this in Japan, we standardized that,
Speaker 6: we made committees and boardrooms because that's what we do.
Speaker 6: We put them on billions of devices, and now we're
Speaker 6: just kind of stuck with it, and I think that's fine.
Speaker 5: I love it. Thank you so much for doing this.
Speaker 5: If I could react with a clapping applause emoji reaction
Speaker 5: to this exchange, I definitely would.
Speaker 6: I'd send you a potty blowing face.
Speaker 5: I do love a party horn. Yeah, that is fun,
Speaker 5: so ask several very smart people colorful questions because there's
Speaker 5: a whole little, tiny world of little details and big
Speaker 5: meanings to discover and isn't that just life? So thanks
Speaker 5: for coming along on this creiological journey. It's really such
Speaker 5: a big deal for me to cover it on this
Speaker 5: podcast because it's the reason this podcast exists. And thank
Speaker 5: you to Jennifer, Jeremy and Keith for their expertise. You
Speaker 5: can find links to them and their work in the
Speaker 5: show notes and a link to our website where we
Speaker 5: list so many other links and resources and studies. We
Speaker 5: are at Ologies on Twitter and Instagram. I'm at Ali
Speaker 5: warn on both Ali with just one l. Thank you
Speaker 5: to Aaron Talbert for admitting the Ologies podcast Facebook group
Speaker 5: with a syst from Bonnie Dutch and Shannon Feltis Merch
Speaker 5: is available at ologiesmerch dot com. We've got half and totes,
Speaker 5: advisors and all kinds of things. Thank you to Susan
Speaker 5: Hale for handling that as well as making sure everyone
Speaker 5: gets paid. She does everything. Noel Dilworth does our scheduling
Speaker 5: and some social and is the best. Emily White of
Speaker 5: the Wordery makes professional transcripts and you can find those
Speaker 5: linked in the show notes. Smologies are also available. They're shorter,
Speaker 5: kid friendly versions of classic episodes. Those are linked at
Speaker 5: aliwar dot com slash smologies, and thank you to Jared
Speaker 5: Sleeper and Ziegrodriguez Thomas of mind Gem Media for editing
Speaker 5: those alongside the wonderful Mercedes Maitland. Kelly R. Dwyer works
Speaker 5: on the website. Nick Thorburn made the theme music, and
Speaker 5: lead editors and producers the past few episodes are, of course,
Speaker 5: the one employee I'd send an eggplant Emochi to because
Speaker 5: we are legally married, Jared Sleeper of mind Gem Media,
Speaker 5: and the platonically loved Mercedes Maitland of Maitland Audio. If
Speaker 5: you stick around until the end of the episode, you
Speaker 5: know I tell you a secret. And I've been kind
Speaker 5: of crawling my way through the last few weeks just
Speaker 5: because of some speaking engagements and travel and also the
Speaker 5: anniversary of my dad's death, which was not easy. But
Speaker 5: this ologies team is just the best and I couldn't
Speaker 5: do any of this without them, So that is one
Speaker 5: non secret is just get great help when you need
Speaker 5: it and tell them how amazing they are, and y'all
Speaker 5: are so great. The other secret is that sometimes I
Speaker 5: glue tiny magnets onto rocks so that I can arrange
Speaker 5: the rocks in different orders and color orders on a
Speaker 5: magnetic whiteboard in my office because it's like the lowest
Speaker 5: stakes puzzle ever and it's just rocks. And honestly, I
Speaker 5: think my perfect day would probably involve some kind of
Speaker 5: ice blendid and a botanical garden or a hike, sketching
Speaker 5: leaves and critters, and maybe crafting some rock magnets. But people,
Speaker 5: the last few times I treated myself to gluing magnets
Speaker 5: on rocks, my computer didn't recognize my biometrics for days
Speaker 5: because I don't know how not to super glue my
Speaker 5: fingers together. But anyway, I hope you sit somewhere and
Speaker 5: picture your perfect day and then just go do as
Speaker 5: many of those things as you can. Just don't fuck
Speaker 5: up your fingers, because it's that's a real pain.
Speaker 6: Oh.
Speaker 5: Also, did you know that there's an empty emoji? I
Speaker 5: just discovered it like ten minutes ago. It's like, what
Speaker 5: is this?
Speaker 6: What the fuck?
Speaker 5: There's also one with a piece of cheese under a
Speaker 5: box like a booby trap. Oh, and there's a yu romatechord.
Speaker 5: So many Okay, go start up for bye pacodermatology, homeiology, cryptozoology, lithology, Yeah, technology, meteorology, paratology, apology, ceriology, selenology.
Speaker 5: Give it someone a real smile, We send an emoji.
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