WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.240 --> 00:00:04.480 You know, I gotta say school. It turns out school 2 00:00:04.519 --> 00:00:09.519 is hard. It turns out that it's not just the 3 00:00:09.560 --> 00:00:12.400 alpha and the omega. There's twenty two other letters in between, 4 00:00:13.080 --> 00:00:15.839 and they all make different words and different declensions. And I, 5 00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:19.559 for some reason forgot that I was an Episcopalian and 6 00:00:19.600 --> 00:00:20.879 didn't have to know any of this stuff. And I 7 00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:23.280 taking this Greek class and it's killing me. 8 00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:30.920 Not what your country can do for you, ask what 9 00:00:31.000 --> 00:00:32.280 you can do for your. 10 00:00:32.159 --> 00:00:35.000 Country, mister. 11 00:00:36.479 --> 00:00:39.759 Tears down this wall. 12 00:00:39.799 --> 00:00:41.880 Read my lips. 13 00:00:45.520 --> 00:00:49.719 It's the Wigreshet vodcast with James Wilas, myself, Stephen Hayward 14 00:00:49.880 --> 00:00:53.439 himself and joining us again to other Rob Long, So 15 00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:54.840 let's set as a podcast. 16 00:00:55.479 --> 00:00:57.240 Hi, Robin, Hi, and what's your name? 17 00:00:57.640 --> 00:01:01.479 Matt had to ask who you are? 18 00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:03.960 Because you have to be careful. 19 00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:05.359 Never read too careful. 20 00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:08.959 I agree, you'll never get bored with when we never 21 00:01:09.079 --> 00:01:09.640 get bored. 22 00:01:10.959 --> 00:01:13.799 We're welcome everybody. It's the Ricochete Podcast number seven hundred 23 00:01:13.840 --> 00:01:17.439 and fourteen. I'm James Lovick's coming to you today on 24 00:01:17.519 --> 00:01:20.640 a microphone. I think somebody stole it. I mean, I 25 00:01:20.680 --> 00:01:22.719 know things are better in than the newspaper industry, but 26 00:01:22.719 --> 00:01:24.359 I don't think we're at the point yet where people 27 00:01:24.400 --> 00:01:26.920 start pawning things they find in people's desks. But we'll know, 28 00:01:27.040 --> 00:01:30.239 we'll figure out exactly what happens coming to you live 29 00:01:30.280 --> 00:01:33.680 from MacBook Air and coming to you from well, from 30 00:01:34.200 --> 00:01:38.319 someplace in an undisclosed place where I believe there was 31 00:01:38.599 --> 00:01:41.719 ceremonies and rituals. Perhaps maybe that he will explain to 32 00:01:41.760 --> 00:01:46.159 it his brother Rob and Stephen Hayward as well too. Steven, Rob, 33 00:01:46.439 --> 00:01:47.799 Welcome to both of you. Good to be here. 34 00:01:47.879 --> 00:01:48.760 It's good to be here. 35 00:01:49.239 --> 00:01:51.280 Yeah, good to see you. James. Yeah, you do look 36 00:01:51.319 --> 00:01:53.599 like you're in some dark dungeon or something. Yes, I 37 00:01:53.599 --> 00:01:54.159 mean we. 38 00:01:54.079 --> 00:01:59.159 Should let everybody know that this that the low quality 39 00:01:59.200 --> 00:02:04.760 audio for James Lilacs is like a specifically designed torture 40 00:02:05.079 --> 00:02:08.879 for him, like nobody else would care. But I know 41 00:02:08.919 --> 00:02:11.960 it's killing him because I can see like the veins. 42 00:02:12.120 --> 00:02:14.879 The video is good enough. I can see the veins 43 00:02:14.919 --> 00:02:17.639 on your forehead, just kind of getting like, oh, I'm 44 00:02:17.639 --> 00:02:19.479 getting whatever. I don't even know what the words would be, 45 00:02:19.520 --> 00:02:23.319 but I'm sure that's actually to the Stostrowe supplement. 46 00:02:23.840 --> 00:02:26.960 I'm so Rod, You're back. Where are you? 47 00:02:26.960 --> 00:02:27.159 Beat? 48 00:02:27.680 --> 00:02:27.879 Well? 49 00:02:27.879 --> 00:02:30.680 As you know, James, I am. I'm a student now. 50 00:02:30.919 --> 00:02:33.800 I went back to school. I'm at the Princeton Theological Seminary. 51 00:02:33.960 --> 00:02:38.240 I am a graduate student surrounded by incredibly smart young 52 00:02:38.280 --> 00:02:44.400 people who have these incredibly moist brains that they can 53 00:02:44.439 --> 00:02:51.439 remember Greek stuff. I idiotically have elected to take Greek. 54 00:02:51.439 --> 00:02:53.400 I don't have to take Greek to be an ordained 55 00:02:53.400 --> 00:02:56.199 episcopal minister, which is sort of my think, my eventual 56 00:02:56.400 --> 00:02:59.719 end here. But I did it anyway because I, like, 57 00:02:59.759 --> 00:03:02.240 you know, Greek's important, and you know, if you don't 58 00:03:02.639 --> 00:03:04.039 know a little bit of Greek, then you're always at 59 00:03:04.039 --> 00:03:05.800 the mercy the people who do, and it's not a 60 00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:06.240 very good thing. 61 00:03:06.280 --> 00:03:07.759 Oh, I find my son all the time at the 62 00:03:07.800 --> 00:03:09.039 mercy of people bluell Greek. 63 00:03:09.360 --> 00:03:11.080 Well you do, and like you know, you're selling the 64 00:03:11.080 --> 00:03:13.520 New Testament. You find yourself thinking yourself, wa, wait, what 65 00:03:13.560 --> 00:03:15.159 was that word? And how did they use it? Like 66 00:03:15.759 --> 00:03:17.560 two verses back and two verses for. 67 00:03:17.680 --> 00:03:21.400 What is that perfect example of that would be the 68 00:03:21.560 --> 00:03:24.360 And there is dispute about this, correct me if I'm wrong. 69 00:03:24.879 --> 00:03:28.039 There should be dispute about the parable of the homily, 70 00:03:28.080 --> 00:03:32.240 about the being easier for a rich man to for 71 00:03:32.240 --> 00:03:33.960 a camel to go through the needle that a rich 72 00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:34.360 man going. 73 00:03:34.599 --> 00:03:39.080 Many interpretations of that the beautiful parable, but they seem 74 00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:44.439 to center around mis translation and misunderstanding perhaps what. 75 00:03:44.360 --> 00:03:46.759 They mean by the eye of a cattle, that rope, yeah, 76 00:03:46.800 --> 00:03:47.280 and the rest of it. 77 00:03:48.159 --> 00:03:52.000 So the richer you are, the more insistent you are 78 00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:56.159 that there are some textual translation issues there that you 79 00:03:56.199 --> 00:03:59.639 could tell pretty much someone's net worth by their interpretation 80 00:03:59.719 --> 00:04:02.439 of that. First, the most famous one, I think is 81 00:04:02.479 --> 00:04:05.039 in the world is the actually in the most famous prayer, 82 00:04:05.120 --> 00:04:06.719 maybe the most one of the most famous prayers ever, 83 00:04:06.759 --> 00:04:10.520 the Lord's Prayer, where if you are a you know, 84 00:04:10.599 --> 00:04:12.800 you're kind of on our side kind of you know, 85 00:04:13.000 --> 00:04:18.000 larger debate, a Western Christian augustin Latin kind of Christian, right, 86 00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:23.240 it's deliver us from evil. And if you're kind of 87 00:04:23.279 --> 00:04:27.399 on the eastern side, you know, the Greek church fathers 88 00:04:27.439 --> 00:04:33.000 like Cyprian origin, those people, you read that not as 89 00:04:33.079 --> 00:04:38.199 the neuter noun evil but as the masculine. So it's 90 00:04:38.199 --> 00:04:42.120 so deliver us from the evil one. And I may 91 00:04:42.120 --> 00:04:44.399 seem little, but it's like you know you but then 92 00:04:44.439 --> 00:04:46.199 you look back, Okay, well, how was this used? You 93 00:04:46.240 --> 00:04:48.000 know in the verses before, how do is that you 94 00:04:48.360 --> 00:04:50.600 using the rest of mark and all that's a Matthew, sorry, 95 00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:52.360 and like you get in all that stuff and like you, 96 00:04:52.920 --> 00:04:55.600 I mean this stuff I could do. By the way, 97 00:04:55.680 --> 00:04:59.560 this is not my problem. My problem is the second 98 00:04:59.639 --> 00:05:03.519 decline of Greek adjectives and the special cases of the 99 00:05:03.839 --> 00:05:08.399 word otos. And so I'm doing all right. And the 100 00:05:08.480 --> 00:05:10.560 other thing I've discovered in this we can talk about 101 00:05:10.560 --> 00:05:12.720 concurrent events. Apparently there's at lection going on, is that 102 00:05:12.759 --> 00:05:19.519 I've discovered that being a writer professionally for forty years 103 00:05:21.040 --> 00:05:24.439 is more than yeah, forty forty thirty five years, thirty 104 00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:27.959 something plus years. It helps you to realize you could 105 00:05:27.959 --> 00:05:30.040 sit down and write. You know, I can turn out 106 00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:31.720 you want twelve hundred words in an hour. I can 107 00:05:31.800 --> 00:05:34.800 do that. It's my job. I can do that. But 108 00:05:35.079 --> 00:05:39.800 they don't want it interesting. They want it like they 109 00:05:39.839 --> 00:05:44.560 want you to support your thesis with facts and citations. 110 00:05:44.639 --> 00:05:48.600 And I find that rude. 111 00:05:50.279 --> 00:05:52.759 Although I have to say Rob that I've always preferred 112 00:05:52.759 --> 00:05:55.800 the Brooklyn version of the Lord's Prayer that culminates with 113 00:05:56.240 --> 00:05:58.040 lead us not into Penn Station. 114 00:05:58.759 --> 00:05:59.439 Yeah right, right. 115 00:05:59.560 --> 00:06:01.720 Even the New Right you want to talk about evil 116 00:06:01.759 --> 00:06:04.720 and you know the pit of hell that captured it 117 00:06:04.720 --> 00:06:04.920 for me. 118 00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:10.240 But well, I can ask you this, this maybe a 119 00:06:10.240 --> 00:06:11.600 segue into the election topic. 120 00:06:12.240 --> 00:06:14.079 I forget which conservative. 121 00:06:13.519 --> 00:06:17.959 Illuminary twenty years ago described our colleges and universities as 122 00:06:18.120 --> 00:06:19.800 seminaries of intolerance. 123 00:06:20.600 --> 00:06:22.240 And you're at an actual. 124 00:06:21.879 --> 00:06:24.600 Seminary, right and now, of course it's not a place 125 00:06:24.639 --> 00:06:25.240 of intolerance. 126 00:06:25.279 --> 00:06:28.720 But and you said before we started going live, you 127 00:06:28.759 --> 00:06:30.360 said that it will be finding it hard. 128 00:06:30.399 --> 00:06:33.000 And I think that seriously, because you know, you are 129 00:06:33.079 --> 00:06:36.639 there and your co students there are asking about the 130 00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:40.639 most serious questions about the transcendent versus the which is 131 00:06:40.639 --> 00:06:41.519 the election, right. 132 00:06:41.959 --> 00:06:42.959 But I am curious. 133 00:06:42.959 --> 00:06:45.959 I mean, most seminaries that I'm familiar with are pretty 134 00:06:46.160 --> 00:06:48.199 the student body and the faculty are pretty liberal. 135 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:51.360 You know, they want to write a gender neutral Bible 136 00:06:51.399 --> 00:06:52.079 and things like that. 137 00:06:52.759 --> 00:06:54.680 And I'm not less concerned about that. But are people 138 00:06:54.680 --> 00:06:56.519 that are worked up about the election? Do they have 139 00:06:56.600 --> 00:06:59.360 grief counselors on speed dial and the event Trump wins 140 00:06:59.439 --> 00:07:00.879 or what's the atmosphere are you? 141 00:07:00.879 --> 00:07:03.839 You know? All that's interesting because the prince of Theological 142 00:07:03.920 --> 00:07:07.439 Seminary and Princeton University have the same DNA, right, they 143 00:07:07.439 --> 00:07:10.120 were born. They it was all a seminary when it 144 00:07:10.160 --> 00:07:13.720 started back in eighteen whatever. And then as things sort 145 00:07:13.720 --> 00:07:15.360 of changed that then the university kind of got more 146 00:07:15.360 --> 00:07:17.680 secular and the seminary state of seminary, and the seminary 147 00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:21.720 was sort of endowed and started by the Presbyterian Church. 148 00:07:21.839 --> 00:07:24.639 So Presbytery Church is still it's still it is still 149 00:07:24.680 --> 00:07:27.079 a seminary for the Presbyterian Church. Is not really a 150 00:07:27.120 --> 00:07:29.879 seminary for the Anglican or Episcopal Church that I belong to. 151 00:07:30.199 --> 00:07:32.079 So I have to do a little extra stuff just 152 00:07:32.120 --> 00:07:36.240 to kind of like keep my thing on. But and 153 00:07:36.279 --> 00:07:37.720 I think this is true of other places too. I 154 00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:40.600 don't think it's just Princeton or Princeton Seminary. Other discools 155 00:07:40.639 --> 00:07:45.680 maybe maybe not. But the purposefulness of it, yeah, it's 156 00:07:45.680 --> 00:07:47.720 definitely liberal and that and and some of it's some 157 00:07:47.759 --> 00:07:50.079 of it's liberal in a lovely way exactly isn't supposed 158 00:07:50.079 --> 00:07:55.879 to be. But the purposefulness of it it kind of helps. 159 00:07:56.439 --> 00:07:59.000 As I said to somebody, they didn't get it. The 160 00:07:59.040 --> 00:08:00.879 other thing is that they're not a lot of laughs here. 161 00:08:01.079 --> 00:08:04.040 Like my d material is getting great, great response, but 162 00:08:04.079 --> 00:08:07.439 it doesn't abody like the purposefulness of it keeps the 163 00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:10.920 riff wrath out. You're here for you know, people here. 164 00:08:11.079 --> 00:08:13.399 The young people are here because they really really do 165 00:08:13.480 --> 00:08:17.279 want to serve their church. And it's also academics and 166 00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:19.399 PhDs and people who have like are much more sort 167 00:08:19.439 --> 00:08:23.600 of you know, academic and brilliant. But the foundational thing 168 00:08:23.639 --> 00:08:26.240 here is that Okay, we're doing something. There's something bigger 169 00:08:26.319 --> 00:08:28.959 that we're a part of and we're supposed to be 170 00:08:29.000 --> 00:08:31.839 doing and it's guiding us. And that is different, I 171 00:08:31.879 --> 00:08:35.480 think fundamentally from the secular institution across the street which 172 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:38.960 sprints the university, which I think is extremely quiet these days. 173 00:08:39.159 --> 00:08:41.080 It's a beautiful campus. Prince is one of the beautiful 174 00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:45.720 places in the world. And I I mean, I hope 175 00:08:45.759 --> 00:08:48.679 that the whatever, the whatever happens in a couple of 176 00:08:48.679 --> 00:08:51.600 weeks is going to be digested by these people in 177 00:08:51.639 --> 00:08:54.480 a way that doesn't cause them too much distress or 178 00:08:54.519 --> 00:08:57.639 too much you know, I mean either way, right, I mean, 179 00:08:58.279 --> 00:09:01.519 or too much whatever. But it is, I mean, it 180 00:09:01.559 --> 00:09:03.840 is a different way to look at there's not a 181 00:09:03.840 --> 00:09:08.480 lot of activism and the seminary campus and I walked 182 00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.039 through the university campus every day and there's not I 183 00:09:11.080 --> 00:09:13.480 don't I mean, I see posters and stuff, but it's 184 00:09:13.559 --> 00:09:15.840 not nobody's yelling and screaming on the squad anymore. And 185 00:09:15.879 --> 00:09:18.279 they might start, but they're right now, they're they're kind 186 00:09:18.279 --> 00:09:20.440 of not And I think the seminary doesn't have that. 187 00:09:20.480 --> 00:09:22.320 I mean, somebody has has a vocal group of students 188 00:09:22.320 --> 00:09:24.559 who wear a kafia and are concerned about what's happening 189 00:09:24.600 --> 00:09:28.080 in Gosam, right, They're not shutting anything down. And they 190 00:09:28.399 --> 00:09:32.720 made a they had a demonstration counter demonstration to somebody 191 00:09:32.759 --> 00:09:36.480 who spoke at the convocation that lasted ten minutes and 192 00:09:37.000 --> 00:09:40.679 it was respectful and written down and wasn't you know 193 00:09:41.000 --> 00:09:43.080 there was no rotating hunger strikes put it that way. 194 00:09:44.159 --> 00:09:49.080 So I don't know. Maybe it's the purposefulness of it 195 00:09:49.120 --> 00:09:53.639 that helps. It's like, you know, you don't hear you 196 00:09:53.639 --> 00:09:55.279 don't hear a lot of these things going on in 197 00:09:55.399 --> 00:09:57.759 STEM campuses, right because people like, well I got a 198 00:09:57.759 --> 00:10:00.440 plot problems that I got to do it U. So 199 00:10:00.480 --> 00:10:02.639 maybe there's that going on, or maybe it's just a 200 00:10:02.639 --> 00:10:04.720 sense that like if you really get, if you're really 201 00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:07.519 thinking about bigger things, everything else seems like a smaller thing. 202 00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:12.360 Well, I'd be curious to see exactly how politically sophisticated 203 00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:16.679 they are, or whether they're even interested in becoming politically sophisticated, 204 00:10:16.679 --> 00:10:18.919 because you can say that it's a basic biblical principle, 205 00:10:19.240 --> 00:10:22.440 basic human principle to take care of the poor, for example, 206 00:10:22.840 --> 00:10:25.759 to be aware of those less fortunate than yourselves, good 207 00:10:25.759 --> 00:10:29.720 thing to think about. It's how you do that that matters, 208 00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:32.240 and how you do that as a whole different series 209 00:10:32.279 --> 00:10:35.039 of expectations and assumptions about government, people and the rest 210 00:10:35.039 --> 00:10:38.320 of it. And I just wonder you, Rob can be 211 00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:42.039 that guy who says, yes, indeed, but what if an 212 00:10:42.080 --> 00:10:46.200 abundance society, what if prosperity, rising tide and all the 213 00:10:46.240 --> 00:10:48.399 rest of that. What if that is the most efficacious 214 00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:52.320 means to securing liberty, justice, and abundance for all? And 215 00:10:52.360 --> 00:10:56.720 what if we do that by removing the state's intercession 216 00:10:57.240 --> 00:11:00.840 so that individuals, I mean, they're good. Look at you 217 00:11:00.919 --> 00:11:04.440 like this, this thing coiled around a tree that's saying 218 00:11:04.759 --> 00:11:08.159 there's an apple. There's a really tasty apple. Why don't 219 00:11:08.159 --> 00:11:09.639 you take a bite out of that? I mean, well, 220 00:11:09.759 --> 00:11:13.960 can really be the you know, the dark prints of 221 00:11:13.960 --> 00:11:17.279 this whole thing? Would they regard you as such? If 222 00:11:17.279 --> 00:11:20.519 you started talking about these things. That's a very interesting 223 00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:22.279 question in your squishy manification. 224 00:11:23.120 --> 00:11:25.120 Here's the good news. The good news for that I've 225 00:11:25.919 --> 00:11:27.919 this is just what I've encountered, but that there was 226 00:11:27.960 --> 00:11:30.080 a lot of talk at the beginning, spent the beginning 227 00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:34.480 semester and for the new students with me of the 228 00:11:34.519 --> 00:11:39.159 diversity of opinion that they're going to encounter. And one 229 00:11:39.159 --> 00:11:41.240 professor actually said, look, you're going to be in this class. 230 00:11:41.480 --> 00:11:42.919 You need to know that there are people in this 231 00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:46.159 class who vote differently from you, who think differently from you, 232 00:11:46.320 --> 00:11:50.480 who worship differently from you, and that is what makes 233 00:11:50.559 --> 00:11:54.279 us a seminary and a place of learning and not 234 00:11:54.480 --> 00:11:57.519 something else. And I remember thinking like, wow, that's really amazing. 235 00:11:57.639 --> 00:12:00.440 I think they're like they must be. I couldn't I 236 00:12:00.519 --> 00:12:03.039 hadn't started yet. I couldn't tell. Is this something to 237 00:12:03.080 --> 00:12:07.240 tell the conservatives, hey listen, you keep your whatever? Or 238 00:12:07.320 --> 00:12:09.279 is this something to tell the liberals, Hey listen, you 239 00:12:09.399 --> 00:12:11.480 keep your mits off the conservative I don't know. I 240 00:12:11.480 --> 00:12:14.080 couldn't tell. What I discovered later was that part of 241 00:12:14.120 --> 00:12:16.120 it is just what happens is that this is a 242 00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:19.399 very popular place to come, unlike sort of these other 243 00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:23.039 to the big divinity schools in the country, one at 244 00:12:23.039 --> 00:12:24.600 Harvard and the one at Yale. This is a place 245 00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:27.120 to come if you actually believe in something and you 246 00:12:27.159 --> 00:12:29.240 actually have some kind of faith. Really, I mean, I 247 00:12:29.399 --> 00:12:32.159 don't even mean that as a joke. And so people 248 00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:35.840 come and Princeton has just traditionally the Princeton University has 249 00:12:35.879 --> 00:12:38.039 had a lot of connections to the South, so people 250 00:12:38.080 --> 00:12:39.360 come from this. There are a lot of people here 251 00:12:39.360 --> 00:12:42.519 from the South, and I think the warning has always 252 00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:44.799 been to them, Listen, We're going to be in a 253 00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:49.559 class with people, and your professors are academics, believing academics, 254 00:12:49.559 --> 00:12:52.360 but academics, and you're going to learn stuff that you 255 00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:57.799 may not have encountered in your time in your you know, church, 256 00:12:59.000 --> 00:13:04.120 for instance, the very distinct, different separate creation stories that 257 00:13:04.399 --> 00:13:08.320 begin the book that we call the Bible. Right by 258 00:13:08.399 --> 00:13:14.759 chapter three, you're already confused. And that is part of 259 00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:16.600 the you know, as they say in software development, that 260 00:13:16.679 --> 00:13:19.879 is as a feature, not a bug. And you're just 261 00:13:19.879 --> 00:13:21.279 gonna have to put up with that because I think, 262 00:13:21.440 --> 00:13:24.360 I think there have been stories of very very bright, 263 00:13:24.559 --> 00:13:30.200 enthusiastic students coming here from very very very committed faith backgrounds, 264 00:13:30.200 --> 00:13:32.440 and they come and they spend you know, semester reading 265 00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:35.320 the Old Testament, which a lot of people haven't done, 266 00:13:35.399 --> 00:13:38.240 and or reading the Hebrew or reading the Greek and 267 00:13:38.279 --> 00:13:41.679 then the New Testament and then having a freak out 268 00:13:41.799 --> 00:13:45.080 and say, oh my god, nothing I was told is true. 269 00:13:45.759 --> 00:13:46.799 It's all a lie. 270 00:13:46.919 --> 00:13:48.720 It's all been a lie. And they, you know, they 271 00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:52.200 call home and usually they're often there's a parent there 272 00:13:52.279 --> 00:13:54.960 or a grandparent or male relatives as a pastor, and 273 00:13:55.000 --> 00:13:57.879 they're like, they turned me, they said, sometimes these things 274 00:13:58.159 --> 00:14:03.120 they turn these absolutely one hundred percent faithful Christians into 275 00:14:03.200 --> 00:14:05.720 total atheists. And we didn't want to do that either, 276 00:14:05.799 --> 00:14:07.240 but they do want you to read the book because 277 00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:10.279 it's the book, and the book's complicated, and so so 278 00:14:10.320 --> 00:14:12.440 I think part of that was like, hey, don't freak 279 00:14:12.519 --> 00:14:15.039 out when you When you don't, you can't answer the 280 00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:20.320 question who parts the Red Sea with a clear cut answer, 281 00:14:22.039 --> 00:14:24.320 and that again, that's like, I don't know, that's we're 282 00:14:24.320 --> 00:14:27.399 still we're still talking about the primeval history here, I mean, 283 00:14:27.799 --> 00:14:30.440 not primary host. We're telling out you know, the early 284 00:14:31.240 --> 00:14:33.879 I don't know what do we page fifty and already 285 00:14:33.919 --> 00:14:37.960 we're confused, Like all right, so I love that part because, 286 00:14:38.000 --> 00:14:41.080 as you know, I'm I'm mister squishy in the middle. 287 00:14:41.480 --> 00:14:43.360 Well, that's great, because I would hate to think that 288 00:14:43.399 --> 00:14:46.919 the diversity of the opinion means people who believe in 289 00:14:47.039 --> 00:14:50.600 taxing unrealized capital gains above five hundred thousand versus people 290 00:14:50.639 --> 00:14:53.919 who believe in taxing it about six hundred thousands. We've 291 00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:57.720 got all all walks of life periity theologically, would you say, 292 00:14:57.720 --> 00:14:59.480 and I'll leave it at this, because we could just 293 00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.600 sit here talk. We do have an election. Parure is, 294 00:15:03.639 --> 00:15:06.080 do you are most of the people who are coming 295 00:15:06.120 --> 00:15:09.879 to the school, uh episcopalian? Would you say that they're 296 00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:14.519 more inclined to Biblical literalism or more inclined to sort 297 00:15:14.559 --> 00:15:17.919 of the idea that it's a set of tales divinely 298 00:15:17.960 --> 00:15:22.440 inspired mind you, but nevertheless not a not a direct 299 00:15:22.440 --> 00:15:25.399 transcription of what happened. We're not talking seven days. We're 300 00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:29.159 talking seven days describing a vast period of time that 301 00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:30.279 only God can comprehend. 302 00:15:30.399 --> 00:15:33.320 Yeah, I think, I think, I think, I don't. I 303 00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:39.600 don't really know. I don't know. I suspect that the 304 00:15:39.039 --> 00:15:43.519 the thing about Biblical literalists are the univocalists. Maybe is 305 00:15:43.559 --> 00:15:45.639 that it's a hard time. You have a hard time 306 00:15:46.679 --> 00:15:49.120 if you're reading the actual Bible, because it's it's got 307 00:15:49.159 --> 00:15:51.399 it's the guy, all these doublets and all these little 308 00:15:51.440 --> 00:15:53.080 things in it that just seem like, okay, well this 309 00:15:53.159 --> 00:15:56.159 is I see here where the key author of the 310 00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:58.639 Old Testament came in and you know, the put it 311 00:15:58.720 --> 00:16:00.960 this in front of the thing. And I could say 312 00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:02.879 the exit is a perfect example because you have, like 313 00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:07.440 this the story of the of leaving Egypt, which is 314 00:16:07.440 --> 00:16:10.320 this great adventure tale, and then that's the first half, 315 00:16:10.519 --> 00:16:13.039 and then you have this song in the middle of it, 316 00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:17.120 which is ancient and older than anything. And then the 317 00:16:17.159 --> 00:16:19.000 second part, the third part of it, on the other 318 00:16:19.039 --> 00:16:22.840 side of it is this list of laws, the rules, 319 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:25.200 and they didn't all come at the same time. And 320 00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:28.919 so that's kind of looks lovely about it. And I mean, look, 321 00:16:28.919 --> 00:16:31.320 the Bible can that was a pretty good book. It 322 00:16:31.320 --> 00:16:32.240 couldn't stand up. 323 00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:37.240 As a screen runner. That must be you know, frustrating 324 00:16:37.240 --> 00:16:39.840 for you first acts, great steps and up we wondered, 325 00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:43.879 yeah right now literally wanders a little in the second part. 326 00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:46.840 The third act got a really clinching so she even 327 00:16:46.840 --> 00:16:48.720 do you have anything else on the subject because I like, 328 00:16:48.480 --> 00:16:50.639 I like, I say, I look forward to a Rob 329 00:16:50.679 --> 00:16:56.559 long podcast that is extent, that is, that is exclusively 330 00:16:56.600 --> 00:16:58.480 devoted to his experience. Was at the school. 331 00:17:00.000 --> 00:17:02.039 I laid down a marker with Rob that I want 332 00:17:02.039 --> 00:17:03.679 to talk to him at least after the first year's 333 00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:04.240 under your belt. 334 00:17:04.240 --> 00:17:05.200 I mean, not just yet. 335 00:17:05.480 --> 00:17:07.480 And you know, we get into things like you know, 336 00:17:07.720 --> 00:17:09.359 Carl Bart versus Thomas Aquinas. 337 00:17:09.359 --> 00:17:09.960 Maybe I don't know. 338 00:17:10.039 --> 00:17:12.359 Yeah, there you go out right right. Well. 339 00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:15.720 I guess one brief comment though about James's question, which 340 00:17:15.759 --> 00:17:19.640 is either literal reading or you know, figurative reading, And 341 00:17:19.720 --> 00:17:22.359 it seems to me depends on what you mean by literal. 342 00:17:22.839 --> 00:17:25.559 I believe you can take the Bible literal if you 343 00:17:25.599 --> 00:17:28.759 accept its premise that it's divinely inspired and your revelation 344 00:17:28.839 --> 00:17:31.400 from God. If you start there, then it seems to 345 00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.160 me you don't have to have the position that it 346 00:17:34.319 --> 00:17:37.440 literally meant a seven to twenty four hour days creation, 347 00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:39.920 since the sun wasn't created to what the third day, right, 348 00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:43.720 which which defies our sort of categories there. 349 00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:47.559 But once you accept that it's serious. 350 00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:51.039 Then it seems to me that that dichotomy of the 351 00:17:51.759 --> 00:17:54.640 what we sometimes say the fundamentalists who take every word literally. 352 00:17:55.319 --> 00:17:57.119 That starts to dissolve a bit, and you think of 353 00:17:57.160 --> 00:17:59.319 it much more deeply and seriously, I think. And I'll 354 00:17:59.359 --> 00:18:02.000 just stop there because I will say I did read 355 00:18:02.079 --> 00:18:04.200 Leon Cass's book on Genesis. 356 00:18:04.279 --> 00:18:05.519 I don't know if you know that book. 357 00:18:05.359 --> 00:18:05.720 No, I do. 358 00:18:05.839 --> 00:18:08.559 Yeah, it's ah, it's worth reading. 359 00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:10.759 But of course it's five hundred pages and very dense. 360 00:18:10.799 --> 00:18:12.799 And he's he's doing a. 361 00:18:12.759 --> 00:18:15.559 Sequel on Exodus that will also be fine. 362 00:18:15.680 --> 00:18:17.359 It may be done by now, I'm not sure, but you. 363 00:18:17.319 --> 00:18:21.039 Could be there forever. I mean, you could spend the 364 00:18:21.079 --> 00:18:23.799 lifetime studying the first two chapters of this Bible. 365 00:18:24.039 --> 00:18:24.440 Correct. 366 00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:25.880 The great thing is at the end of it, rob 367 00:18:25.960 --> 00:18:30.160 I suppose, and your your last classes on revelations, which 368 00:18:30.200 --> 00:18:30.720 is just a. 369 00:18:32.160 --> 00:18:33.559 Yeah, the end of it, you know everything. That's the 370 00:18:33.599 --> 00:18:34.480 great dandy. 371 00:18:34.240 --> 00:18:36.200 Way to wrap out the show right there with the 372 00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:39.279 six heads and all the rest, and requires the trumpets. Well, 373 00:18:39.400 --> 00:18:43.920 great pin in that move on next topic, elections, anybody 374 00:18:44.079 --> 00:18:49.079 has been captured following what Kabalahara said in her recent appearances, 375 00:18:49.480 --> 00:18:54.640 where there seems to be a great uneasiness settling in 376 00:18:55.200 --> 00:18:58.000 on some parts of the left that she may not 377 00:18:58.039 --> 00:18:59.559 be able to close the deal. 378 00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:00.640 That may be the. 379 00:19:00.720 --> 00:19:03.599 Joy of Brad Summer has evaporated and people are seeing 380 00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:06.640 somebody who just really isn't up to the task. What 381 00:19:06.680 --> 00:19:11.480 do your sense from the nation's reaction and eventual injudication 382 00:19:11.720 --> 00:19:13.680 of the merits of Kamala Harris. 383 00:19:14.240 --> 00:19:15.960 Well, I mean, I think they I have to say 384 00:19:16.039 --> 00:19:25.640 that her team was right. What right when they kept 385 00:19:25.680 --> 00:19:29.559 her out of interviews, they kept her from talking. That 386 00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:32.720 was a turns out that was a pretty good strategy. 387 00:19:32.960 --> 00:19:35.640 Now we've heard her talk, and we've seen her handle 388 00:19:35.880 --> 00:19:40.359 really easy questions from incredibly sympathetic interviewers, and she just 389 00:19:40.400 --> 00:19:43.160 doesn't seem to have some kind of she seems doesn't strange. 390 00:19:43.319 --> 00:19:47.400 I find it generationally very strange that she doesn't. And 391 00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:49.519 I'm actually from Kamala Harris, who I you know, like 392 00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.519 she didn't arrive here. I mean, as hard as his 393 00:19:52.599 --> 00:19:55.880 believer in live, you're an unaccomplished person. She was a 394 00:19:55.920 --> 00:19:58.079 prosecutor and she ran a statewide. It wasn't a great 395 00:19:58.079 --> 00:20:01.319 state wide, but she ran a statewide. And so she's 396 00:20:01.519 --> 00:20:03.200 she knows how to think on her feature clearly does 397 00:20:03.279 --> 00:20:06.160 because she was on to what to trials. She was 398 00:20:06.200 --> 00:20:12.279 in court. So this, this terror and almost choosing to 399 00:20:12.359 --> 00:20:17.440 say nothing to me is the most terrible I can 400 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:21.440 put it is that it's just the terror of running 401 00:20:21.480 --> 00:20:24.680