WEBVTT 1 00:00:00.720 --> 00:00:04.599 Welcome to Wine Soundtrack USA. Listen to the passion with 2 00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:08.160 which producers narrate their winery and their world. Team thirty 3 00:00:08.199 --> 00:00:12.199 answers discover their stories, personalities and passions. 4 00:00:12.519 --> 00:00:15.119 Hello, friends and listeners of Wine Soundtrack. This is Alison 5 00:00:15.199 --> 00:00:17.800 Levine and today I am with Mark Claren, the wine 6 00:00:17.800 --> 00:00:22.199 miggerant mcgrail vineyards in the Livermore Valley. Mark, Welcome to 7 00:00:22.239 --> 00:00:24.640 Wine Soundtrack and tell us a little bit about mcgrail 8 00:00:24.719 --> 00:00:25.960 vineyards and where we are. 9 00:00:27.199 --> 00:00:27.600 Well. 10 00:00:27.600 --> 00:00:31.800 Thank you, Hi, Allison, very nice to meet you. Mcrail 11 00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:36.399 vineyards were on Greenville Road in Livermore Valley, sort of 12 00:00:36.600 --> 00:00:41.039 up on a hill overlooking the Livermore Valley and the 13 00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:44.759 many vineyards. We can see all the vineyards and see 14 00:00:44.799 --> 00:00:46.920 Mount Diablo in the distance, and. 15 00:00:50.280 --> 00:00:50.920 So we're just. 16 00:00:52.600 --> 00:00:56.840 Been here since nineteen ninety nine the vineyard was planted. 17 00:00:58.079 --> 00:01:00.880 Jim and Ginger mcgrail bought the property in nineteen ninety 18 00:01:00.920 --> 00:01:04.000 seven planted it to Caberny Sauvignon. 19 00:01:04.079 --> 00:01:05.159 In ninety nine. 20 00:01:06.680 --> 00:01:11.280 Harvested started harvesting grapes and selling them to the many 21 00:01:11.319 --> 00:01:17.159 wineries here in Livermore Valley, and eventually in two thousand 22 00:01:17.159 --> 00:01:20.280 and five there was sort of a bumper crop year 23 00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:24.519 in California, and so they had some extra fruit and yeah. 24 00:01:24.280 --> 00:01:28.239 And that's what we're a winery now, Yeah, exactly, which 25 00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:29.840 is kind of classic, right. 26 00:01:30.599 --> 00:01:34.040 And then, but Jim mcgrail was a very competitive soul too, 27 00:01:34.159 --> 00:01:40.200 and many of the early plant or early production of 28 00:01:40.439 --> 00:01:45.040 bottles were doing very well as far as in the 29 00:01:45.079 --> 00:01:49.959 marketplace and gaining popularity, and Jim was a fairly competitive soul, 30 00:01:50.040 --> 00:01:52.319 and he figured that if somebody else could do it, 31 00:01:52.400 --> 00:01:57.040 that he could do it too. And so they started 32 00:01:57.040 --> 00:02:00.560 making wine and officially in two thousand and five Vintage. 33 00:02:00.879 --> 00:02:03.879 And then I met Ginger mcrail in two thousand and 34 00:02:03.920 --> 00:02:12.280 six and started consulting and you know, just sort of 35 00:02:12.599 --> 00:02:17.000 helping them. And then eventually Heather mcgrail came along and 36 00:02:17.719 --> 00:02:22.479 just sort of helping them, advising them topping barrels, how 37 00:02:22.479 --> 00:02:26.199 to do this, how to do that, and eventually. 38 00:02:27.639 --> 00:02:28.280 You never left. 39 00:02:28.599 --> 00:02:30.400 I never left. Well, it was funny. 40 00:02:30.439 --> 00:02:33.319 I ran into Ginger at a in a grocery store 41 00:02:33.520 --> 00:02:35.919 a couple of years later, and she said, you know, 42 00:02:35.960 --> 00:02:40.360 we're going to hire a wine maker, and I said, well, 43 00:02:40.439 --> 00:02:43.800 I kind of want to be that winemaker. And so 44 00:02:43.879 --> 00:02:48.039 we had an interview process of me coming to the 45 00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:52.360 house with Jim Ginger and Heather mcgrail, their daughter, and 46 00:02:53.919 --> 00:02:55.879 the interview kind of went like this. It was like 47 00:02:56.000 --> 00:02:58.400 Ginger said, well, do you know how to make chardonnay? 48 00:02:59.319 --> 00:03:02.479 And I said, even though this is a Cabernet savignon vineyard, 49 00:03:02.560 --> 00:03:05.520 you know And I said, well, yeah, I know how 50 00:03:05.560 --> 00:03:07.919 to make chardonnay. What kind of you know, what style 51 00:03:08.039 --> 00:03:12.479 chardonnay do you want to have? And she said, I'm good, 52 00:03:12.639 --> 00:03:13.599 what do you think, Jim? 53 00:03:14.400 --> 00:03:15.039 And that was it. 54 00:03:15.319 --> 00:03:15.919 That was it. 55 00:03:16.120 --> 00:03:20.639 So today, how many acres do you have? And are 56 00:03:20.639 --> 00:03:22.599 you all one hundred percent of state fruit? Are you 57 00:03:22.680 --> 00:03:23.439 purchasing fruit? 58 00:03:24.319 --> 00:03:29.719 We are at this point one hundred percent of state fruit. 59 00:03:29.800 --> 00:03:35.639 We own all our vineyards. The original planting here on 60 00:03:35.719 --> 00:03:42.199 the estate property where the winery is is was sixteen 61 00:03:42.280 --> 00:03:46.639 acres of gray of cabernet savignon, and then in two 62 00:03:46.639 --> 00:03:52.879 thousand and fifteen, I think it was, we purchased another 63 00:03:52.960 --> 00:03:56.960 thirty acre parcel with I can see it. I'm sitting 64 00:03:57.000 --> 00:03:59.000 here in the winery and I can see the vineyard 65 00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:04.599 from here. It's over there by Darcy Cannon. And then 66 00:04:04.639 --> 00:04:08.599 in twenty sixteen we planted another twelve acres on The 67 00:04:09.639 --> 00:04:14.719 existing property was thirty, but about eleven of it had 68 00:04:15.039 --> 00:04:17.639 grapes on it, and then we planted another twelve, So 69 00:04:18.439 --> 00:04:21.839 all in all we're looking at about forty acres of. 70 00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:26.319 Vines, and not just cabernet. Now you also do we 71 00:04:26.399 --> 00:04:27.240 do a. 72 00:04:27.160 --> 00:04:27.800 Lot of things. 73 00:04:27.839 --> 00:04:34.439 We planted Chardonnay, Sauvignon blanc, Cabernet franc, and more Cabernet sauvignon. 74 00:04:34.959 --> 00:04:36.560 And then the existing. 75 00:04:36.079 --> 00:04:46.000 Vineyard already had Marlow Milbeck, tigan nacionl Souzao, and then 76 00:04:46.480 --> 00:04:52.279 we grafted some of the vines over to petiverdeo, so 77 00:04:52.319 --> 00:04:56.759 we have, you know, all five of the classic Bordeaux 78 00:04:56.759 --> 00:04:59.879 red grape varieties at this point. And then a couple 79 00:04:59.839 --> 00:05:02.639 of years ago I talked Heather into letting me graft 80 00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:05.800 two rows to Grenache blanc, so we have we have 81 00:05:05.879 --> 00:05:08.160 a little Grenache bloc, which is the outlier. 82 00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:12.560 Chardon Ay, of course, is not a Bordeaux variety. 83 00:05:12.720 --> 00:05:16.240 But and then those Portuguese groups just found their way in. 84 00:05:16.199 --> 00:05:19.519 Here well, and you know the funny part about the Portuguese. 85 00:05:19.560 --> 00:05:22.600 First of all, the too regan asci now just got 86 00:05:23.000 --> 00:05:24.920 approved in Bordeaux. 87 00:05:25.480 --> 00:05:27.480 So we were like, oh, well, just wait till they do, 88 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:28.040 this is out. 89 00:05:28.079 --> 00:05:32.360 But but the reality is that that venuard, that particular 90 00:05:32.439 --> 00:05:34.560 vineyard was planted in ninety eight and we are in 91 00:05:34.600 --> 00:05:40.920 the midst of thinking of our redevelopment plan, and part 92 00:05:40.959 --> 00:05:43.959 of me is like, I really like those two varieties. 93 00:05:43.959 --> 00:05:45.959 We don't have very much of it, and we make 94 00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:51.519 us a very small blend called slancha, which is Gaelic 95 00:05:51.759 --> 00:05:56.920 for cheers, yes, thank you, and which is completely not Portuguese. 96 00:05:57.040 --> 00:05:57.199 Right. 97 00:05:57.720 --> 00:06:05.000 But the funny part about that, or the little funny story. 98 00:06:04.600 --> 00:06:05.480 About that, is that. 99 00:06:07.759 --> 00:06:10.759 Kind of all along, you know, Jim Irish, you know 100 00:06:10.879 --> 00:06:14.600 mcrail Irish, you know, family, and I used to tell Heather, 101 00:06:15.360 --> 00:06:17.920 you know, we should have like some kind of Irish 102 00:06:18.040 --> 00:06:21.040 name for one of our wines, you know, and and 103 00:06:21.079 --> 00:06:25.279 then we have these odd great varieties and it was 104 00:06:25.399 --> 00:06:26.439 like they were. 105 00:06:26.399 --> 00:06:27.360 Kind of outliers. 106 00:06:27.399 --> 00:06:30.639 And then and she said, well, the problem with you know, 107 00:06:30.759 --> 00:06:34.920 the Irish and the Gaelic languages, it's all you know, 108 00:06:37.160 --> 00:06:38.959 you know hagis, you know, or. 109 00:06:38.879 --> 00:06:41.160 Things like that, you know, and so you know, it's like, 110 00:06:41.720 --> 00:06:43.720 you know, like here trying my head. 111 00:06:45.439 --> 00:06:48.319 But then she she came up with Slatchat and it 112 00:06:48.439 --> 00:06:50.759 was like I was like, oh my god, she's brilliant, 113 00:06:50.800 --> 00:06:51.120 you know. 114 00:06:51.120 --> 00:06:52.959 And she'd have to write it phonetically for most people 115 00:06:52.959 --> 00:06:53.839 to know how to say it. 116 00:06:55.000 --> 00:06:57.920 Well, yeah, a lot of people don't. They don't get 117 00:06:57.959 --> 00:07:01.480 that for sure. They don't when they see it, they 118 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:02.800 don't understand it, right. 119 00:07:03.160 --> 00:07:04.519 And what's your total case production? 120 00:07:05.560 --> 00:07:09.839 We're about I think we're somewhere between seventy five and 121 00:07:10.199 --> 00:07:12.959 eight thousand cases, seventy five hundred in. 122 00:07:12.959 --> 00:07:16.720 There, Okay, I was gonna say, and a seventy. 123 00:07:18.240 --> 00:07:21.000 Seventy five cases and eight thousand, yeah. 124 00:07:21.480 --> 00:07:26.000 And are your wines available across the country or in 125 00:07:26.079 --> 00:07:28.240 certain markets or mostly direct consumer? 126 00:07:28.279 --> 00:07:31.680 Here at the winery, we are definitely direct to consumer. 127 00:07:32.959 --> 00:07:39.120 We do have club members that are in other states, 128 00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:41.920 so we do ship out, you know, ship out and 129 00:07:41.959 --> 00:07:44.480 then we get visitors from out of state, and if 130 00:07:44.480 --> 00:07:46.600 it's legal to ship you know, we will. 131 00:07:47.600 --> 00:07:52.439 But a DTC winery. So I'm curious you grew up, 132 00:07:52.560 --> 00:07:56.000 you were raised in Seattle. I was born in Seattle, 133 00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:57.279 and you were raised. 134 00:07:56.959 --> 00:07:59.439 Where I was raised in Livermore, So. 135 00:07:59.600 --> 00:08:03.319 You kind of among these nascent finds back then. And 136 00:08:03.399 --> 00:08:06.920 I'm curious what is your first memory relevant to wine? 137 00:08:08.480 --> 00:08:08.600 Uh? 138 00:08:09.079 --> 00:08:11.519 You know, it's interesting because when I was a kid 139 00:08:11.519 --> 00:08:17.279 growing up, you know, there were vineyards in town, you know, 140 00:08:17.319 --> 00:08:19.319 because you know town was. 141 00:08:19.920 --> 00:08:23.319 Livermore was very rural, very very rural town. 142 00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:30.720 And on the police car there was a rodeo rid 143 00:08:32.120 --> 00:08:37.440 the atom and then a grape cluster and those were 144 00:08:37.559 --> 00:08:40.639 sort of represented the three things that Livermore was known for. 145 00:08:40.679 --> 00:08:45.960 The the Livermore Radiation Laboratory at the time l r L, 146 00:08:47.000 --> 00:08:51.720 which is now like Livermore Labs. And then and then 147 00:08:51.759 --> 00:08:55.159 the rodeo, which we still have, you know, the fastest rodeo, 148 00:08:55.480 --> 00:08:58.480 and and then the grape was representing the wine. So 149 00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:02.159 I knew about I knew what that was. And then 150 00:09:02.559 --> 00:09:08.200 my parents always drank wenty Gray Reasling, which was a white, 151 00:09:08.720 --> 00:09:12.879 white table wine of the day. And so I kind 152 00:09:12.879 --> 00:09:17.000 of grew up around that, you know. And then eventually 153 00:09:17.240 --> 00:09:21.600 I kind of bounced around after I got out of 154 00:09:21.639 --> 00:09:29.399 high school, did some different things, construction and worked at 155 00:09:29.399 --> 00:09:32.720 the Oakland Army Base for a while, and then I 156 00:09:32.799 --> 00:09:35.639 got a job at wenty and and so then I 157 00:09:35.679 --> 00:09:37.879 started making Yeah, making gray reasoning. 158 00:09:38.519 --> 00:09:42.440 I love it. I'm curious. Once you were kind of 159 00:09:42.919 --> 00:09:46.200 a little older and you know drinking wine. Was there 160 00:09:46.279 --> 00:09:48.639 a wine that was one of those aha moments for you? 161 00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:50.559 Was it while you were working at weenty or was 162 00:09:50.600 --> 00:09:52.480 it another occasion, but one of those wines that kind 163 00:09:52.519 --> 00:09:55.120 of stock stood out with you that either because it 164 00:09:55.279 --> 00:09:57.399 set you on a path or a mindset or just 165 00:09:57.919 --> 00:09:59.639 you know, opened up your eyes to something. 166 00:10:00.799 --> 00:10:02.080 You know, it's interesting. 167 00:10:02.120 --> 00:10:06.240 But at the time, I was in my twenties, you know, 168 00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:09.320 because when you first when you're in your twenties, you 169 00:10:09.399 --> 00:10:10.919 drink beer, you know, or whatever. 170 00:10:11.919 --> 00:10:14.600 And I mean I had. 171 00:10:14.440 --> 00:10:19.440 My experiences, you know, you know, as a youngster with 172 00:10:19.720 --> 00:10:21.399 wine in a negative way and. 173 00:10:23.120 --> 00:10:25.440 Mainly not wine but fortified wine. 174 00:10:27.159 --> 00:10:31.320 So the MD twenty twenty, you know, so the old 175 00:10:31.360 --> 00:10:34.080 mad dog as that were, But so I had some 176 00:10:34.200 --> 00:10:37.240 bad experiences with that. But you know, once I you know, 177 00:10:37.399 --> 00:10:41.639 was working for wenty and we were making primarily white wine, 178 00:10:41.679 --> 00:10:44.799 Gray Reasoning and Lebloc de blanc, which was a sweet 179 00:10:44.960 --> 00:10:48.399 Shinnon Bloc type, you know, I mean Shinnon Block was 180 00:10:48.480 --> 00:10:51.320 one of the great varieties, but sort of a sweet 181 00:10:51.320 --> 00:10:54.840 white table one. But I think it was our Petit 182 00:10:54.960 --> 00:11:00.480 Serrah at wenty that I really went wow, Wow, this 183 00:11:00.720 --> 00:11:04.759 is amazing, Like it was super dark, kind of jammy, 184 00:11:05.679 --> 00:11:08.799 you know, And so that was the one there that I. 185 00:11:08.720 --> 00:11:11.399 Was like, wow, you know, maybe I do like wine, 186 00:11:11.519 --> 00:11:11.799 you know. 187 00:11:12.399 --> 00:11:15.559 And so I just you know, kind of transferred over 188 00:11:15.639 --> 00:11:18.879 and started drinking wine. And then from there, you know, 189 00:11:19.039 --> 00:11:23.799 you at the time went he was changing over to 190 00:11:24.399 --> 00:11:30.159 from becoming a from being a white wine primarily producer 191 00:11:30.279 --> 00:11:34.440 of wines to you know, mari low Cabernet, sauvignon and chardonnay, 192 00:11:35.200 --> 00:11:40.600 and so you know then of course, and then I 193 00:11:40.639 --> 00:11:43.039 started traveling the world, you know, and then you know, 194 00:11:43.080 --> 00:11:45.440 all of a sudden, you know, it's like wow. 195 00:11:47.080 --> 00:11:49.600 So so if we came to your home today and 196 00:11:49.679 --> 00:11:52.720 went to your wine cellar or into your wine refrigerator, 197 00:11:52.840 --> 00:11:56.399 or into the box in the closet, whatever whatever you have, 198 00:11:56.720 --> 00:11:58.399 what would we find in there? Is it a lot 199 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:00.600 of wines you've made? Is it wines for around the world? 200 00:12:00.639 --> 00:12:03.960 Is it wins from Livermore? Are there particular great varieties 201 00:12:04.000 --> 00:12:07.120 that you tend to purchase? Like what would we find? 202 00:12:07.879 --> 00:12:12.159 Well, I definitely have my share of mcgrail vineyards at home, 203 00:12:13.799 --> 00:12:16.559 and I do have I have two wine fridges at 204 00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:20.960 home and I have one here at the winery. It's 205 00:12:21.000 --> 00:12:26.039 obscene how much wine I have. But my latest thing, so, 206 00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:31.360 and I go in phases, right, So my latest kind 207 00:12:31.399 --> 00:12:40.840 of thing is I'm really discovering Italian wines and and 208 00:12:41.080 --> 00:12:46.799 you know, even though I'm a Cabernet sauvignon producer, and 209 00:12:46.919 --> 00:12:49.840 I love Cabernet sauvignon, I mean, and I think we're 210 00:12:49.919 --> 00:12:52.279 very very good at it, and I think this vineyard 211 00:12:52.360 --> 00:13:00.080 is world class. I do sort of enjoy the fresh 212 00:13:00.080 --> 00:13:06.759 and fruity white Italian grapes like a piano. And I 213 00:13:06.799 --> 00:13:09.799 went to Italy last year and discovered Greco to tuffo, 214 00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:15.039 and so now I have some greco and and I 215 00:13:15.080 --> 00:13:16.639 definitely have some fiano in. 216 00:13:16.639 --> 00:13:18.879 The in the you know, the wine fridge. 217 00:13:18.919 --> 00:13:23.240 And then the other thing is, for years I was 218 00:13:23.799 --> 00:13:25.840 a sort of kind of not really much of a 219 00:13:25.879 --> 00:13:32.440 Peanu the wi drinker, and so I have some some 220 00:13:32.600 --> 00:13:37.759 nice pianos now. And then granache is the one that 221 00:13:38.639 --> 00:13:42.960 I mean, a good grenache is an amazing wine to me. 222 00:13:43.159 --> 00:13:48.240 And the funny part about grenache is whether it's French, 223 00:13:48.600 --> 00:13:53.919 you know, or Spanish or whatever, is it's a very 224 00:13:53.960 --> 00:13:59.159 prolific grape. And so it's it's actually fairly cheap to 225 00:13:59.200 --> 00:14:02.240 grow compared to Cabernese, sevignon and things like that. So, 226 00:14:04.120 --> 00:14:07.519 you know, it's I think that it's something. And I 227 00:14:07.559 --> 00:14:10.440 love the spice of grenache, you know, and I you know, 228 00:14:10.440 --> 00:14:12.039 I just think it's a great, great. 229 00:14:11.919 --> 00:14:14.960 Variety of the things in your wine fridge and what 230 00:14:15.000 --> 00:14:16.600 you have at home. Is there something you opened up 231 00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:19.600 recently or this week at dinner last night, or something 232 00:14:19.679 --> 00:14:20.559 that drank really well? 233 00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:22.480 My grenache bloc? 234 00:14:22.960 --> 00:14:27.279 Yeah, you're a grenache block what vintage twenty twenty three? 235 00:14:28.440 --> 00:14:33.600 Nice and fresh? Yeah, So I'm curious. You know, you 236 00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:35.759 were talking about how you love grenache and that you've 237 00:14:35.759 --> 00:14:38.759 been introduced to these white grapes from Italy, and you know, 238 00:14:39.159 --> 00:14:41.679 you make world class cabernet, and you're talking about all 239 00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:43.480 these different grapes. Do you think there's a such thing 240 00:14:43.519 --> 00:14:47.519 as a perfect variety? 241 00:14:48.440 --> 00:14:50.840 You know? That's that's a great question. You know. 242 00:14:51.440 --> 00:14:54.840 I've heard it stated in a slightly different ways, like 243 00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:58.279 if you were stranded on a desert island, what would 244 00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:00.720 be the one great variety that you would want to 245 00:15:00.759 --> 00:15:01.399 drink the rest. 246 00:15:01.279 --> 00:15:01.720 Of your life? 247 00:15:02.399 --> 00:15:05.279 And I just don't know that I could ever answer 248 00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:12.519 that question only because I think time of the year, 249 00:15:12.799 --> 00:15:15.519 you know, like I'm talking about these white grape varieties 250 00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.000 right now, because it's summer and it's hot, you know, 251 00:15:18.039 --> 00:15:20.159 and it's like, but in the winter time, you know, 252 00:15:20.200 --> 00:15:23.480 I prefer the you know, the the boulder reds and 253 00:15:23.519 --> 00:15:26.759 things like that, you know, And and it also depends 254 00:15:26.759 --> 00:15:28.200 on what are you eating, you know. 255 00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:30.879 So I don't know that there's a perfect wine. 256 00:15:31.320 --> 00:15:34.480 There are many perfect wines, but I don't think there's 257 00:15:34.600 --> 00:15:36.399 one specific perfect wine. 258 00:15:36.759 --> 00:15:41.639 Well, speaking of many perfect wines, sometimes that's determined by 259 00:15:41.679 --> 00:15:45.120 your palette. Sometimes that's determined by a wine critic who 260 00:15:45.279 --> 00:15:48.120 has declared it. So what is your opinion on wine 261 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:49.159 critics and scores. 262 00:15:54.200 --> 00:15:57.240 I I love it when they score. 263 00:15:56.960 --> 00:15:57.840 My wine, well. 264 00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:02.360 Say about it. 265 00:16:02.519 --> 00:16:07.000 Yeah, well, I mean so, I mean, at the end 266 00:16:07.000 --> 00:16:09.799 of the day, we are all different, and you know, 267 00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:11.240 and everybody has moods. 268 00:16:11.360 --> 00:16:16.799 For me, wine is it's a very mood, you know. 269 00:16:16.879 --> 00:16:20.240 It's it's if you're in a good mood, you know, 270 00:16:20.399 --> 00:16:22.919 maybe wine tastes better. If you're in a bad mood, 271 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:27.480 maybe wine tastes worse. And you know, I remember I 272 00:16:27.559 --> 00:16:31.519 worked for Randall Graham for a little while, and he 273 00:16:31.679 --> 00:16:34.759 was very into I mean, he's a very spiritual guy, 274 00:16:34.879 --> 00:16:40.879 and and he was into biodynamics and and talked about 275 00:16:41.399 --> 00:16:46.759 root days and fruit days and and like flower days, 276 00:16:46.879 --> 00:16:50.279 and I can't remember there was a fourth one, but 277 00:16:51.039 --> 00:16:55.360 like we would taste wines on fruit days because they 278 00:16:55.399 --> 00:16:58.600 always tasted better on fruit days, you know, and so 279 00:16:58.840 --> 00:17:03.080 and I do believe that, right, So when the critic, 280 00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:08.319 there's two things about critics. One is, you know, was 281 00:17:08.359 --> 00:17:11.319 it a fruit day? And then the other one is 282 00:17:13.799 --> 00:17:23.359 I'm reasonably confident that I've had wines judged that I know, 283 00:17:26.079 --> 00:17:30.279 you know, like, as an example, got let's say gold 284 00:17:30.319 --> 00:17:33.720 and silver, right, So one of my cabernets. 285 00:17:33.079 --> 00:17:35.279 Got a gold or a double gold. 286 00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:41.480 And then another wine, same vintage, got a silver. And 287 00:17:41.720 --> 00:17:46.279 I'm reasonably confident that the silver metal had some kind 288 00:17:46.319 --> 00:17:50.440 of cork related problem and they didn't necessarily pick up 289 00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:56.599 on it. And I may not have either, because you know, 290 00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:02.799 TCA cork taint is when it's obvious, it's obvious, but 291 00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:07.839 when it's at a super micro level, it just sort 292 00:18:07.839 --> 00:18:08.759 of robs. 293 00:18:08.440 --> 00:18:09.759 The fruit out of the wine. 294 00:18:09.960 --> 00:18:12.599 But you don't you don't go, oh, this is corked, 295 00:18:12.680 --> 00:18:16.480 you know, Yeah, it's just this wine doesn't have any fruit. 296 00:18:16.440 --> 00:18:18.920 Or on a panel. Like you said, it's subjective. Maybe 297 00:18:18.960 --> 00:18:20.799 one wine went to one panel and one went to 298 00:18:20.839 --> 00:18:22.640 another and they had different palettes. 299 00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:26.400 Yeah, that's true too. Well yeah panels. Yeah, that's you're 300 00:18:26.519 --> 00:18:29.920 right about that. But anyway, at the end of the day, 301 00:18:31.119 --> 00:18:35.359 I'm fortunate enough to well, I have this wine making philosophy. 302 00:18:35.960 --> 00:18:39.400 It's very simple. I make wine I want to drink, 303 00:18:40.240 --> 00:18:42.960 and then I hope you like it too. And it's 304 00:18:43.000 --> 00:18:45.559 working out because we're getting pretty good scores. 305 00:18:46.039 --> 00:18:50.039 Good so wine you like to drink, red, white or rose? Yes, 306 00:18:50.559 --> 00:18:51.839 still are sparkling. 307 00:18:51.960 --> 00:18:56.720 Yes, we do make a We do make a sparkling 308 00:18:56.720 --> 00:18:59.799 wine now. So we have a Chardonnay vineyard we plan 309 00:19:00.960 --> 00:19:07.359 in twenty sixteen, I mentioned earlier, and so I wanted 310 00:19:07.400 --> 00:19:10.880 to make a little sparkling wine. And so now we 311 00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:16.079 have two vintages now of this Chardonnay. You know, we 312 00:19:16.519 --> 00:19:18.519 pick it a little early like you're supposed to do, 313 00:19:18.640 --> 00:19:21.880 and ferment it and then referment it and all that, 314 00:19:21.960 --> 00:19:25.079 and we're just getting ready to release our very first vintage. 315 00:19:25.480 --> 00:19:28.799 That's exciting. So you mentioned just a few minutes ago, 316 00:19:29.720 --> 00:19:33.279 you know, food and wine pairing. You know, when I 317 00:19:33.319 --> 00:19:35.640 first asked you about the critics and scores, you kind 318 00:19:35.680 --> 00:19:38.960 of alluded there's a lot more. There's about perfect variety, 319 00:19:39.000 --> 00:19:40.559 about how there's a time and a place in what 320 00:19:40.599 --> 00:19:43.920 you're eating. So when it comes to pairing food and wine, 321 00:19:43.960 --> 00:19:46.920 do you follow rules? Do you think there are certain 322 00:19:47.000 --> 00:19:49.319 rules to follow? Are there guidelines you follow that you 323 00:19:49.359 --> 00:19:52.839 can share or do you not take it as seriously? 324 00:19:53.759 --> 00:19:59.079 I'm no expert. Okay, I'm not an expert at it, 325 00:19:59.319 --> 00:20:06.759 but I am I'm very appreciative of those who are 326 00:20:06.880 --> 00:20:12.640 good at it. And probably one of the sort of 327 00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:16.359 the epiphany for me actually happened like thirty years ago 328 00:20:16.599 --> 00:20:20.720 or so when I was still working at WENTI and 329 00:20:21.880 --> 00:20:28.000 we had a winemaker dinner with oh God, Cloda Wah 330 00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:32.119 and went he had a restaurant and and so I 331 00:20:32.200 --> 00:20:37.160 went to this Cloda Wow winemaker dinner and I was 332 00:20:37.519 --> 00:20:42.640 blown away at how good the wine tasted with the 333 00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:45.400 food and vice versa, you know, and how and that 334 00:20:45.559 --> 00:20:49.759 was my eye opening moment to be open to the idea, 335 00:20:49.799 --> 00:20:52.440 because before that I was like, mister, like, you know, 336 00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:54.960 just go ahead and eat your peanut butter and jelly. 337 00:20:54.640 --> 00:20:59.559 And you know, petita or whatever, yeah, but. 338 00:21:00.119 --> 00:21:01.039 That might actually work. 339 00:21:01.240 --> 00:21:03.319 Yeah, I kind of think it does. 340 00:21:03.359 --> 00:21:06.519 But but but you know, but I mean, just in 341 00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:09.160 all seriousness, I do think. 342 00:21:08.960 --> 00:21:11.440 That I do. 343 00:21:11.960 --> 00:21:14.279 I do think about it, like if I'm having a 344 00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:19.160 chicken dish at home, what wine I should be drinking 345 00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:22.599 with that? And you know, rather than you know, if 346 00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:23.839 I'm eating a steak, you. 347 00:21:23.799 --> 00:21:24.559 Know, like I don't. 348 00:21:24.960 --> 00:21:27.359 I don't drink you know, I don't eat a steak 349 00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:30.480 with my sobnim blanc, you know, and I don't, you know, 350 00:21:30.599 --> 00:21:33.680 and I don't drink a cab with my chicken necessarily, 351 00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:36.000 although that one can be but fish, let's say a 352 00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:40.200 white fish, right, a light white fish, or oysters or 353 00:21:40.200 --> 00:21:43.359 something like that, oysters and subnium blanc, you know. And 354 00:21:43.400 --> 00:21:48.640 then in general I really like my subnium blanc in 355 00:21:48.720 --> 00:21:52.680 my grenaches blanc in my rose with spicier foods like 356 00:21:52.720 --> 00:21:56.359 you can go the Asian spice or the Mexican spice 357 00:21:56.559 --> 00:22:00.440 or what have you. And I mean, I love those combinations. 358 00:22:00.920 --> 00:22:04.440 And we don't make reasling, but Reaeseling can do that too. 359 00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:06.279 Right, absolutely so. 360 00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:10.720 For somebody who hasn't had the pleasure to taste mcgrail 361 00:22:10.799 --> 00:22:13.279 Vineyards wines yet what do you think they're missing out on? 362 00:22:16.920 --> 00:22:20.160 Well, I think that they're missing out on a delicious 363 00:22:20.200 --> 00:22:22.519 bottle of wine, no matter which one you pick. 364 00:22:22.839 --> 00:22:24.640 Okay, well I'm gonna make you pick a wine now, 365 00:22:24.960 --> 00:22:28.599 because the question is this space aliens land on your property. 366 00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:31.400 They come knocking at the door, which wine of yours 367 00:22:31.400 --> 00:22:32.960 are you going to welcome them with? And say, this 368 00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:34.599 is mcgrail Vineyards. 369 00:22:35.480 --> 00:22:40.759 Cabernet Sauvignon Reserve. For sure, hands down. It's the genesis 370 00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:44.240 of the brand. It's what we're best at, is what 371 00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:48.359 we're most known for, and it's why people come back. 372 00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:51.440 I love it. So you've been in the Livermore Valley 373 00:22:51.440 --> 00:22:55.160 most of your life. Obviously you have worked elsewhere when 374 00:22:55.200 --> 00:22:57.839 you were with Bonnie Dune, but you spent a lot 375 00:22:57.839 --> 00:23:01.240 of time here in your experience. And what do you 376 00:23:01.279 --> 00:23:04.160 see vintage telling you here in the Livermore Valley? Do 377 00:23:04.200 --> 00:23:06.599 you see a lot of consistency? Do you see variation 378 00:23:06.720 --> 00:23:10.279 from year to year? And you know, do you see 379 00:23:10.319 --> 00:23:13.519 more consistency or more variation especially of late. 380 00:23:14.839 --> 00:23:20.880 Great great question, I see. I mean, I personally think 381 00:23:21.000 --> 00:23:24.799 there's a lot of consistency. Although weather has been. 382 00:23:26.720 --> 00:23:30.599 A little crazier in the last ten years, let's say. 383 00:23:32.240 --> 00:23:37.400 But interesting, we do a lot of vertical tastings of 384 00:23:37.440 --> 00:23:41.799 our cabernets. We have James Vincent Cabernety Savignon, which is 385 00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:44.720 aged in one hundred percent French joke, and then we 386 00:23:44.759 --> 00:23:49.359 have our reserve Cabernety savignon that's aged in you know 387 00:23:49.640 --> 00:23:53.359 must you know, Hungarian, French and American, et cetera. I 388 00:23:53.400 --> 00:23:58.440 mean and experienced open all that, but completely from this vineyard. 389 00:23:59.119 --> 00:24:03.920 Aged our aging regime for those wines are thirty months 390 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:08.319 in oak and so then we do a vertical tasting 391 00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:13.119 every year. Those are usually in the winter because you know, 392 00:24:13.160 --> 00:24:15.559 what else do you do in the winter but drink, right, 393 00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:17.519 I don't. 394 00:24:17.319 --> 00:24:19.880 Know, harbust is over and now you're sitting around you 395 00:24:19.880 --> 00:24:20.680 gotta do something. 396 00:24:22.519 --> 00:24:29.200 So just based on that you can taste vintage variation, 397 00:24:29.400 --> 00:24:31.400 of course, and some of it is just you know, 398 00:24:31.720 --> 00:24:35.200 a twenty twelve cab doesn't taste like a twenty twenty cab, you. 399 00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:36.440 Know, I mean, you know, period. 400 00:24:36.880 --> 00:24:41.000 But I do feel like the consistency, at least here 401 00:24:41.000 --> 00:24:44.640