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<v Speaker 1>Oh he is, folks, it's show Die.

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<v Speaker 2>People say good money to see this movie.

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<v Speaker 3>When they go out to a theater, they want cold sodas,

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<v Speaker 3>pop popcorn, and no monsters in the protection booth.

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<v Speaker 1>Everyone pretend podcasting isn't boring.

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<v Speaker 4>Got it off.

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<v Speaker 2>You've changed everybody's life. Now everyone is watching.

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<v Speaker 5>I believe Arthur Flexed to be some kind of.

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<v Speaker 1>Mart He's a monster.

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<v Speaker 3>When you exactly what he was.

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<v Speaker 1>Doing, showd witnesses entered to the little man, he's not.

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<v Speaker 1>He's persons.

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<v Speaker 2>You're Borenna call you Mark or a joker. I'm not

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<v Speaker 2>speaking to now which one of you is here?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm doing anything for you.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you think it's a little too much.

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<v Speaker 1>Watch?

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<v Speaker 2>You could do anything you want.

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<v Speaker 3>You're joker.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think we're going to talk any more than

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<v Speaker 1>an hour, and I know you probably don't want to

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<v Speaker 1>talk any more than about five minutes about this movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Frankly, I feel very unfair.

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<v Speaker 1>You fucking hated this movie before you even saw it.

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<v Speaker 2>I wanted to give it a shot.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know how true that is.

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't like Joker. I have a personal beef with

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<v Speaker 2>Todd Phillips, and I never really watched the Batman cartoons.

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<v Speaker 2>So I don't know the quote unquote real story of

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<v Speaker 2>Harley Quinn and Joker. This Joker is just about as

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<v Speaker 2>obnoxious as Jared Letto, I would think.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, maybe I.

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<v Speaker 2>Was laying in wait for this movie and wanting to

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<v Speaker 2>rip in to it, and luckily it's given me a

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<v Speaker 2>big opportunity here.

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<v Speaker 1>This movie is going to make it very easy on

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<v Speaker 1>people to hate. Kind of find this movie fascinating because

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<v Speaker 1>I don't understand what the hell Todd Phillips was doing.

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<v Speaker 1>I do understand, at least I have my own headkin

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<v Speaker 1>and hear of what Todd Phillips was doing. And I

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<v Speaker 1>think that based on the amount of times Todd Phillips's

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<v Speaker 1>name shows up on this and I'm talking directed by,

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<v Speaker 1>written by, those are things that really lead me to

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<v Speaker 1>believe that a certain thing was going on here this

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<v Speaker 1>whole time. One might say that the story of Joker

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<v Speaker 1>is the story of Joker being used as a stand

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<v Speaker 1>in for certain real people of our times. Is that

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<v Speaker 1>not what this is? Is this not like an episode of

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<v Speaker 1>the Culture Cast featuring me the host of the Culture Cast, Christachu,

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<v Speaker 1>Much to the chagrin of two people and Mike white

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<v Speaker 1>from the projection booth. That's a weird intro, but we're

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<v Speaker 1>going with it. It sure was.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what the fuck just happened?

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<v Speaker 1>I was just giving you an abruptness that the movie

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<v Speaker 1>does with the title credits. I want to are we

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<v Speaker 1>going to be talking about a movie that might be

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<v Speaker 1>a parable for real people on this episode that's a crossover,

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<v Speaker 1>because I think that's what this is supposed to be.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm looking forward to you unpacking that.

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<v Speaker 1>For me.

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<v Speaker 2>This is so within two weeks I have witnessed car

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<v Speaker 2>crashes on screen. I have to say that Megalopolis is

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<v Speaker 2>a much more fascinating car crash and one that I

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<v Speaker 2>will probably be studying, and I wouldn't be surprised if

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<v Speaker 2>there's an episode in my future of that. I will

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<v Speaker 2>not be watching this one again, just like I only

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<v Speaker 2>watched Joker the one time because I just find it

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<v Speaker 2>so distasteful. And I can understand where you're coming from

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<v Speaker 2>as far as it's a fascinating failure, but it's not

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<v Speaker 2>one that I care to dig in too much.

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<v Speaker 1>I actually don't think it's a failure of a movie.

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<v Speaker 1>I think it's rather successful. I just think it's rather

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<v Speaker 1>successful at doing something not particularly palatable, but I think

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<v Speaker 1>that was the point of the first movie. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>the thing I've I went and rewatched the first movie

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<v Speaker 1>earlier this year, Okay, about four months ago and so

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<v Speaker 1>recently that I know. I cataloged it on letterboxed and

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<v Speaker 1>I enjoyed it a hell of a lot more this

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<v Speaker 1>time now, primarily because of my own struggles with mental health.

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<v Speaker 1>And I know that's a big part of the first

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<v Speaker 1>movie is the character is a mental health struggler big time,

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<v Speaker 1>and that ends up being Look, I don't know if

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<v Speaker 1>I needed a movie to relitigate the first movie, to

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<v Speaker 1>be no pun intended, this movie spends the entire movie

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<v Speaker 1>relitigating the first movie. But you know what, I love

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<v Speaker 1>that about this movie, because what happened in the first

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<v Speaker 1>movie deserves to be re litigated. If what you're going

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<v Speaker 1>to do is point out the fact that this guy

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<v Speaker 1>is a complete and utter waste of time, just like

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<v Speaker 1>Jeffrey Dahmer, just like Ted Bundy. All these dudes are

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<v Speaker 1>a waste of time and they're not worth idolizing. And

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<v Speaker 1>the only people that idolize them are the people that

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<v Speaker 1>are just as bad as they are, or just as

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<v Speaker 1>broken as they are. Look, we have several characters in

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<v Speaker 1>this film idolizing Joker, from Harley Quinn played by Lady

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<v Speaker 1>Gaga to another just inmate guy who we get to

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<v Speaker 1>the end of the movie. We get to it. But yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>there's a lot going on here, and I'm not trying

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<v Speaker 1>to sway your opinion by the end of this podcast

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<v Speaker 1>might or from it, because I don't think that there's

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<v Speaker 1>any point, not because I don't think I can do that,

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<v Speaker 1>but because I understand how unbelievably unpalatable this movie is.

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<v Speaker 1>Everything about it is pretty unpalatable. But I do think

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<v Speaker 1>that's the point, and I think that if you can

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<v Speaker 1>at least observe it that way, it may bear out

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<v Speaker 1>fruit a little bit more. But I understand in a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of ways, I want to give a Woking Phoenix

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<v Speaker 1>mumbling musical anytime of day, because it's a mumbling musical

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<v Speaker 1>that has Lady Gaga in it, one of the most

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<v Speaker 1>objectively talented female musicians period of all time. Period. Yes,

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<v Speaker 1>on this episode of the Culture Cast and the Projection Booth,

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<v Speaker 1>we're talking about twenty twenty four's Fully ad Joker, Fully

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<v Speaker 1>I Do. It's directed by Todd Phillips, written by Scott

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<v Speaker 1>Silver and Todd Phillips based on characters quote unquote from

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<v Speaker 1>DC as I believe, we're intended to believe, And it

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<v Speaker 1>does continue the story from the previous Joker film that

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<v Speaker 1>came out back in twenty nineteen, a more pastoral time,

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<v Speaker 1>when all we were worried about was this movie making

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<v Speaker 1>people angry, and the film does once against Joaquin Phoenix

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<v Speaker 1>as Joker, Lady Gaga plays Harley Quinn. We have Brendan

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<v Speaker 1>Gleeson in there, Catherine Keener' Zazzi beats, and Steve Coogan

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<v Speaker 1>stopped by for a literal cup of coffee in the movie.

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<v Speaker 1>I have no other way of putting it other than

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<v Speaker 1>glorified cameos, and as I already hinted at, we will

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<v Speaker 1>be spoiling the movie. The plot of this movie is

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<v Speaker 1>to relitigate the first movie and give us a look

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<v Speaker 1>at what happens now that Joker is in jail, as

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<v Speaker 1>he slips further into his mental delusions about his own

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<v Speaker 1>importance in the world and whether or not the person

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<v Speaker 1>and idea that he created has outgrown who he is,

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<v Speaker 1>or if he ever even mattered to begin with. Mike,

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<v Speaker 1>I kick it to you spoilers from here on out.

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<v Speaker 1>I think there's no point in not addressing the spoilers.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you say, skip, oh.

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<v Speaker 2>One hundred percent? But like I said, it's a car crash,

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<v Speaker 2>so a lot of people are curious about that. So

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<v Speaker 2>I'm not going to blame you. If you want to

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<v Speaker 2>see this wreck feel free, that's great because I want

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<v Speaker 2>to find meaning in this and.

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<v Speaker 1>It's under a lot of muck intentionally by Todd Phillips.

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<v Speaker 2>I just want to say I don't think that Joaquin

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<v Speaker 2>Phoenix plays Joker in this movie. I think he plays

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<v Speaker 2>Arthur Fleck. And that's part of the problem of it

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<v Speaker 2>is that he's barely Joker in this movie, and he

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<v Speaker 2>really doesn't go back to that, and when he does

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<v Speaker 2>go back to that, he does a black sense as Joker.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh I took that as a Southern drawl thing instead,

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<v Speaker 1>that was the one that was defending evolution. Oh, Clarence Darrow, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>like that, That's what I was hearing. Like, that's what

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<v Speaker 1>I was hearing. But again I didn't hear the step

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<v Speaker 1>up and fetch it. I can see it.

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<v Speaker 3>Mister Puddles, Gary Puddles, tell me, sir, is that your

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<v Speaker 3>God give a name?

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<v Speaker 1>Again. We'll get to that continue though about Joaquin Phoenix

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<v Speaker 1>playing Arthur Fleck and not Joker.

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<v Speaker 2>First, let's start at the beginning. What do you make

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<v Speaker 2>of the cartoon intro to this? Because I thought it

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<v Speaker 2>was an interesting way to start it, and it is.

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<v Speaker 2>Finally they're telling us what year it is because there's

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<v Speaker 2>a nineteen eighty three copyright on this Warner brother cartoon

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<v Speaker 2>Me and My Shadow Starring Joker.

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<v Speaker 1>Which is really funny because that's the name of a song.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, And when he's in the backstage, it looks

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<v Speaker 2>like he's backstage at the whatever the Robert de Niro show,

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<v Speaker 2>prey Franklin show yep was Murray Franklin. Yeah, he's at

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<v Speaker 2>the Franklin Theater. As he or his sho shadow are

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<v Speaker 2>walking out of the dressing room, there are all these

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<v Speaker 2>musical posters on the wall. This idea of him and

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<v Speaker 2>his shadow that's going to come through so much of

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<v Speaker 2>this whole thing of him having these two personalities in

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<v Speaker 2>them fighting and which one is winning? Is it the

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<v Speaker 2>Arthur Fleck is a Joker.

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<v Speaker 1>The cartoon at the beginning of the movie is one

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<v Speaker 1>hundred percent the key through which he watched the movie right,

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<v Speaker 1>because the whole point of the thing going on at

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<v Speaker 1>the beginning is, like you said, the Shadow takes over,

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<v Speaker 1>the Shadow throws him. When the arm war in the

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<v Speaker 1>dressing room and the Shadow is pretending to be him,

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<v Speaker 1>and the Shadow goes out and sings the song on

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<v Speaker 1>the Murray Franklin Show, the Shadow is dressed up like

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<v Speaker 1>he is. The Shadow is the dark reflection of Joker,

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<v Speaker 1>which is funny because when he gets out of the taxi,

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<v Speaker 1>he's just walking. He's walking with a little bit of

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<v Speaker 1>the style that we see at the end of the

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<v Speaker 1>last movie, but he's not being violent or when it's

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<v Speaker 1>the other version of him, it's this violent character that's

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<v Speaker 1>shooting people, becoming violent with the people he's walking through

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<v Speaker 1>the hallway. And it's the idea that Arthur Fleck feels

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<v Speaker 1>like Joker is his dark reflection that is out of control,

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<v Speaker 1>that he's trying to control. But to what end is

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<v Speaker 1>what the movie ultimately is asking. The more interesting question

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<v Speaker 1>I think that the movie is asking is what happens

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<v Speaker 1>when the thing that you've created by accident not only

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<v Speaker 1>outlives you and the usefulness that it had to you,

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<v Speaker 1>but also when it becomes something that is so important

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<v Speaker 1>to other people that they start to commingle around it

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<v Speaker 1>and make it their life's purpose and something that they're

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<v Speaker 1>outside the courthouse, willing to blow it up to get

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<v Speaker 1>him out. At what point does that become a thing

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<v Speaker 1>that's a problem for everyone. I think cartoon gets to

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<v Speaker 1>that idea. The cartoon is almost a microcosm of a

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<v Speaker 1>goddamn movie really in a lot of ways.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, you got the three ops, You've got his

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<v Speaker 2>bare ass, You've got them beating the shit out of them. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>it's definitely, and then him ending with knock knock. It

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<v Speaker 2>is basically what we're going to see in the rest

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<v Speaker 2>of this film.

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<v Speaker 1>In a lot of ways, you could take it the

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<v Speaker 1>literalism of the first movie, right the first movie came out.

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<v Speaker 1>It's not like there were the radical violence in the

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<v Speaker 1>streets because of the movie. The movie came out. It's

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<v Speaker 1>a good performance by Joaquin Phoenix, That's not a question

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<v Speaker 1>in my mind. Even if you don't like the movie,

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<v Speaker 1>you can appreciate his performance and the depths and lengths

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<v Speaker 1>that he goes to to portray the character. Nothing ended

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<v Speaker 1>up coming up the movie. So it is weird that

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<v Speaker 1>Todd Phillips would be like, Oh, I'm going to demystify

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<v Speaker 1>this character, this kind of awful, nihilistic meta character that

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<v Speaker 1>I've created that kind of speaks to the world right now.

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<v Speaker 1>I would say, yes, it's Todd Phillips kind of killing

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<v Speaker 1>the monster. But I also think it's Todd Phillips commenting

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<v Speaker 1>on us as a society, putting on a pedestal these

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<v Speaker 1>the awful people. We have seen people obsessed with Jeffrey Dahmer,

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<v Speaker 1>and we have seen people obsessed with John Wayne Gacy

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<v Speaker 1>and all these people just like she is, just like

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<v Speaker 1>Harley Quinn is in this movie, and we've seen this

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<v Speaker 1>in real life. I just think we've never seen a

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<v Speaker 1>story told like this before. Superhero Villain. I think that

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<v Speaker 1>this movie would be really good. It had nothing to

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<v Speaker 1>do with the Joker. Imagine this movie had nothing to

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<v Speaker 1>do with comic books or superheroes or anything, and it

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<v Speaker 1>was just this weird movie about this guy who takes

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<v Speaker 1>on this persona and does what he does in the

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<v Speaker 1>first movie, and then the second movie is just talking

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<v Speaker 1>about how that persona grew out of control and became

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<v Speaker 1>its own thing to society. Imagine if it was just

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<v Speaker 1>that without any of the pretense of DC. Might you

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<v Speaker 1>like this movie more? And I'm just curious because how

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<v Speaker 1>much of this cuts to it's a superhero thing as well.

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<v Speaker 1>It's a weird way to repurpose this story because it

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<v Speaker 1>doesn't really speak at all to any version of the Joker,

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<v Speaker 1>which is actually perfectly fine by me. This is its

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<v Speaker 1>own thing, period, all the way to the end. But

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<v Speaker 1>I'm just curious, like how much of that factors into

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<v Speaker 1>this for you.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that's the only thing interesting about it, is

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<v Speaker 2>playing with those tropes and making this such a different

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<v Speaker 2>thing than we've seen before. We've seen villain and hero

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<v Speaker 2>origin story so many times, but this one actually was

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<v Speaker 2>a little bit interesting that with the first movie, I

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<v Speaker 2>just couldn't abide by all of the homage to Scorsese.

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<v Speaker 5>And just the king of comedy of it all, you mean,

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<v Speaker 5>and and I just felt like this it just leans

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<v Speaker 5>so heavily on those this one when there's a shot

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<v Speaker 5>that's directly from umbrellas chareboard with all of the multicolored

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<v Speaker 5>umbrellas as they're moving.

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<v Speaker 1>Along, which who would know that's what that's even referencing

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<v Speaker 1>other than that, to fucking deal, Well, I know you

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<v Speaker 1>and I know me, but you know what I mean.

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<v Speaker 1>The musical nature of it all obviously speaks to that

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<v Speaker 1>as well. But I don't think anyone going to see

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<v Speaker 1>this for the book part of the Oh Wow, you

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<v Speaker 1>get it though. I get it. But then again, because

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<v Speaker 1>I'm your friend and I've heard of that movie because

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<v Speaker 1>of you, But I can't imagine just someone is going

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<v Speaker 1>and seeing it. And yeah, Brothers of shareboor Wow, Todd

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<v Speaker 1>Phillip is such a huge way.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then there's a little bit of Taxi Driver

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<v Speaker 2>when Lady Gaga puts the finger gun to her head,

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<v Speaker 2>but we get a lot of guns to heads here. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>with this one, it feels like they should maybe I

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<v Speaker 2>don't know, lean on something because basically this movie, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>there's musical acts in them which could easily have been removed.

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<v Speaker 2>It's interesting the way that they integrate the music in here.

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<v Speaker 2>I am absolutely okay with that, even though I have

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<v Speaker 2>to say that as a singer, Joaquin Phoenix is a

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<v Speaker 2>really good actor, can't hold that too. Maybe he can.

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's just Arthur Fleck singing rather than Woquing Phenix singing,

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<v Speaker 2>if that makes sense.

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<v Speaker 1>Well walk the line, and he did a pretty good job.

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<v Speaker 1>As Johnny Cash.

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<v Speaker 2>That's true, it is Arthur then, Okay.

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<v Speaker 1>I think this is intentional. I want you to speak

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<v Speaker 1>to the Todd Phillips of all this because that's the

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<v Speaker 1>thing that I know you can speak to more than

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<v Speaker 1>I think pretty much anybody else that we know right

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<v Speaker 1>as far as what him as a person, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think some of who he is as a director and

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<v Speaker 1>the choices as he's made, and I think his reputation

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<v Speaker 1>and him being his own person, I think would lead

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<v Speaker 1>me to believe that he did this kind of as

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<v Speaker 1>a fuck you movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, he's a total troll.

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<v Speaker 1>Total that's more because you've had personal dealings with Todd Phillips.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and yeah, he just never impressed me as a

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<v Speaker 2>human being, just really came off as a prick. And yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>I feel like he knew how to play the system

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<v Speaker 2>and he made some movies before, but he just had

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<v Speaker 2>this precipitous jump up in the ranks of directorhood to

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<v Speaker 2>go from he made the g. G Allen documentary. I

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<v Speaker 2>think he produced that Chicken Hawk documentary about men who

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<v Speaker 2>love boys, and then he made that fake documentary for HBO.

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<v Speaker 2>But when they found out that it was faked, they

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<v Speaker 2>pulled it. I think that was just called Fratthause and

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<v Speaker 2>then yeah, somewhere after that, he just like went up

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<v Speaker 2>in the ranks and suddenly he is directing star Skiing

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<v Speaker 2>Hutch and all of these things that are opening in

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<v Speaker 2>the summer, and road Trip was a big success. Didn't

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00:17:38.400 --> 00:17:40.359
<v Speaker 2>he do like Old School or something too?

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<v Speaker 1>That was the first movie of his that I ever saw.

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<v Speaker 1>I know nothing about him other than what you've told me.

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<v Speaker 1>I enjoy Old School affair amount and I enjoy Starsky

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<v Speaker 1>and Hutch, I think even more. I think my favorite

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<v Speaker 1>thing that he's done is Starsky and Hutch, and I

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<v Speaker 1>think a lot of that also goes to Ben Stiller

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<v Speaker 1>and Owen Wills and being perfectly cast and Snoop dog

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00:17:58.839 --> 00:18:02.240
<v Speaker 1>being the best part of that goddamn movie is Huggy Bear.

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<v Speaker 1>He hits all the notes perfectly as Huggy Bear, and

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<v Speaker 1>it's seamless that role was made for Snoop Dogg. If

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<v Speaker 1>you're gonna make a modernized version of that story, Snoop

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00:18:13.240 --> 00:18:17.079
<v Speaker 1>Dogg was perfect casting. Again, that script, I believe co

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<v Speaker 1>written by Todd Phillips. Yep, his name's on it again.

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<v Speaker 1>There are other names on some of these things, but

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<v Speaker 1>he works on primarily only things he writes, at least

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<v Speaker 1>as a director. He wrote the first Joker is named

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<v Speaker 1>on this one. But yeah, I think personally, if you

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<v Speaker 1>ask me what Todd Phillips's job was here was I

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<v Speaker 1>got a lot of money to make a movie that

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<v Speaker 1>I just really wanted to make, and it's just all

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<v Speaker 1>the way down an unpleasant movie to watch.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's a horrible movie to watch.

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<v Speaker 1>But I don't think that there are enough movies like

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<v Speaker 1>this anymore. I'm talking about as a big budget to

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<v Speaker 1>two hundred million dollars studio fucking picture, not as a

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00:19:04.279 --> 00:19:08.119
<v Speaker 1>ten million dollar yoyo's making a movie like Megalopolis and

336
00:19:08.160 --> 00:19:11.880
<v Speaker 1>this are outliers. Like movies like this don't get made

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<v Speaker 1>two hundred million dollar bombs. That is a fucking shock

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00:19:15.319 --> 00:19:17.599
<v Speaker 1>in this day and age. This movie making as little

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<v Speaker 1>money as it made and getting roasted as hard as

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00:19:20.680 --> 00:19:24.160
<v Speaker 1>it's being roasted is shocking because this is the equivalent

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00:19:24.240 --> 00:19:27.000
<v Speaker 1>of the first movie being amazing in the second movie

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00:19:27.039 --> 00:19:30.039
<v Speaker 1>being railroaded. Is one of the worst movies ever made. Outright,

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<v Speaker 1>this movie's being called one of the worst movies ever made.

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<v Speaker 1>And I don't think it's that bad.

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<v Speaker 2>Where is the two hundred million dollars going to?

346
00:19:39.799 --> 00:19:40.079
<v Speaker 1>Though?

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00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:44.279
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's not like this is an outer space epic.

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<v Speaker 2>There are some special effects. Was it the animeters for

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00:19:48.319 --> 00:19:51.079
<v Speaker 2>that cartoon? Are they raking in all this? Do dough?

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<v Speaker 2>I don't see the money on screen.

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<v Speaker 1>I think they paid Lady Gaga twenty five million dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>Uh Gaga was paid twenty in Jaquin Phoenix's paid twelve.

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<v Speaker 1>So a quarter, almost a quarter of your budget is

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<v Speaker 1>paid on your two main actors. So let's rephrase the

355
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:10.920
<v Speaker 1>question where did one hundred and sixty million dollars go?

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<v Speaker 2>Was it Brendan Gleeson? Did he just absorb the rest

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<v Speaker 2>of the budget? Here?

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<v Speaker 1>He's a nasty one in this movie, isn't he? He's great?

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<v Speaker 2>Especially the rape scene. Hey, let's just jump right there.

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<v Speaker 2>The rape scene one of the worst prison rape scenes

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<v Speaker 2>that I've seen, probably since Hudsucker Proxy, but probably even worse, because, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>you get the guy who's like crying the first night,

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<v Speaker 2>the fish and everything, and he's gonna get raped. And

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<v Speaker 2>here you get that nice long moment after the rape

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00:20:42.039 --> 00:20:44.960
<v Speaker 2>where we're just in that close up of Joaquin Phoenix

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<v Speaker 2>and just the devastation on his face. I'm like, oh, okay, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>this so reminds me of the Come and See or

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<v Speaker 2>like some of these wartime dramas where you're just like,

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<v Speaker 2>what the fuck am I watching right now? What are

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<v Speaker 2>you doing to me?

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<v Speaker 1>I thought there was a little bit of one Floor

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<v Speaker 1>over the Cuckoo's Nest with this movie.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, very yeah, but I liked that.

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<v Speaker 1>Like about this movie is like it wears that on

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<v Speaker 1>its sleeve a little bit. And I appreciate that because

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00:21:13.440 --> 00:21:16.039
<v Speaker 1>I don't think that I see that enough personally like

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<v Speaker 1>these I don't know, I like a dude didn't prison story.

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<v Speaker 2>I've seen it too many times.

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<v Speaker 1>No, it's not for everybody. Hey, I get it that

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<v Speaker 1>I do understand. But it's the musical of it all

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<v Speaker 1>that makes it fucking weird, right, Like, it's the music

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<v Speaker 1>and the musical numbers. You know what this movie reminds

383
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<v Speaker 1>me of. In a lot of ways, this movie reminds

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<v Speaker 1>me of like an old timey like Singing in the

385
00:21:39.720 --> 00:21:42.440
<v Speaker 1>Rain musical. There's parts of this movie that are like,

386
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<v Speaker 1>they don't make movies like this anymore, And I wonder,

387
00:21:46.759 --> 00:21:49.559
<v Speaker 1>let's wind our question back even further. Is the budget

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<v Speaker 1>just all on the practical shit. It must have been

389
00:21:52.480 --> 00:21:55.119
<v Speaker 1>all these sets they were building. When they cut away

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00:21:55.160 --> 00:21:59.640
<v Speaker 1>to the moments of the delusions of Arthur Fleck. That

391
00:21:59.759 --> 00:22:01.960
<v Speaker 1>is the best part of the movie. All those fucking

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00:22:01.960 --> 00:22:05.640
<v Speaker 1>scenes of them two singing together and being bizarre and weird,

393
00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:09.799
<v Speaker 1>and him playing Joker, waking Phoenix's Joker when they give

394
00:22:09.880 --> 00:22:14.079
<v Speaker 1>him six minutes in the movie, should be Joker. He's

395
00:22:14.119 --> 00:22:16.839
<v Speaker 1>great as Joker. He was great as Joker in the

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00:22:16.839 --> 00:22:19.160
<v Speaker 1>first movie. But some of this reminds me of The

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00:22:19.240 --> 00:22:21.279
<v Speaker 1>Dark Knight Rises, where it's like, hey, he's like Batman

398
00:22:21.319 --> 00:22:23.359
<v Speaker 1>for six minutes in the movie. But that's the point.

399
00:22:23.519 --> 00:22:27.279
<v Speaker 1>Like in this movie, I guess he's never really Joker

400
00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.599
<v Speaker 1>in real life. He's Joker once, like you said with

401
00:22:30.759 --> 00:22:35.880
<v Speaker 1>the with the voice, but those delusional musical scenes because

402
00:22:35.880 --> 00:22:38.759
<v Speaker 1>they're so well shot. That's said again, like there's a

403
00:22:38.759 --> 00:22:42.880
<v Speaker 1>flair for the practicality there, though singing leaves a lot

404
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:44.799
<v Speaker 1>to be desired.

405
00:22:45.039 --> 00:22:49.359
<v Speaker 2>And then Lady Gaga is so amazing as a singer.

406
00:22:49.839 --> 00:22:53.240
<v Speaker 2>There's one moment when they finally are back on the

407
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:55.839
<v Speaker 2>let's call him the Joker steps towards the end of

408
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<v Speaker 2>the movie, and of course there's an image that I

409
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<v Speaker 2>think is going to be captured where it's him saying

410
00:23:00.839 --> 00:23:05.039
<v Speaker 2>please stop singing, as she's still singing, and he's got

411
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:07.240
<v Speaker 2>his hands on her mouth trying to shut her up.

412
00:23:08.000 --> 00:23:12.119
<v Speaker 2>She is just standing there and starts to sing, and

413
00:23:12.200 --> 00:23:14.720
<v Speaker 2>she just gets higher and higher in her range. I

414
00:23:14.720 --> 00:23:16.799
<v Speaker 2>don't even see it take a deep breath or anything.

415
00:23:16.920 --> 00:23:20.599
<v Speaker 2>She just starts to sing and gets louder and higher,

416
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:23.039
<v Speaker 2>and the octaves go up, and she just is so

417
00:23:23.400 --> 00:23:26.400
<v Speaker 2>talented she can't help herself. But even when we meet

418
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:28.759
<v Speaker 2>her for the first time, when she's singing with this

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00:23:28.920 --> 00:23:31.960
<v Speaker 2>church group or choir group, I should say at the

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00:23:32.079 --> 00:23:35.599
<v Speaker 2>mental institution, I can hear her voice over everybody else. Yes,

421
00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:38.680
<v Speaker 2>that's probably mixing, but also I think it's just that

422
00:23:38.799 --> 00:23:41.519
<v Speaker 2>she has the best voice in that entire room.

423
00:23:42.160 --> 00:23:43.200
<v Speaker 1>She is Lady Gaga.

424
00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:44.799
<v Speaker 2>She is amazing.

425
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:48.599
<v Speaker 1>That's and here's the thing I think, ultimately, if we're

426
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:53.039
<v Speaker 1>talking just the objective issues with this movie. Objectively, there

427
00:23:53.160 --> 00:23:56.400
<v Speaker 1>is not enough Lady Gaga in this movie. And I'm

428
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:00.680
<v Speaker 1>talking about like when she's playing Harley Quinn in the

429
00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:04.240
<v Speaker 1>there's plenty of delusional world Harley Quinn, but she's rarely

430
00:24:04.240 --> 00:24:06.839
<v Speaker 1>given anything to do other than sing and to be fair,

431
00:24:07.400 --> 00:24:10.000
<v Speaker 1>the Joaquin Phoenix is singing as well, so we're not

432
00:24:10.119 --> 00:24:12.759
<v Speaker 1>really building out their characters through the singing because these

433
00:24:12.759 --> 00:24:16.680
<v Speaker 1>aren't original musical pieces, which I think, for me is

434
00:24:16.720 --> 00:24:20.359
<v Speaker 1>the biggest missed opportunity in this entire is for these

435
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:24.640
<v Speaker 1>musical pieces to not be original their jukebox musical numbers

436
00:24:24.720 --> 00:24:27.960
<v Speaker 1>really come on. That for me is the biggest missed

437
00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:29.799
<v Speaker 1>opportunity because when they said this was going to be

438
00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:33.599
<v Speaker 1>a musical, you know what, we really haven't gotten a

439
00:24:33.759 --> 00:24:39.400
<v Speaker 1>superhero musical movie. And we still really haven't because this

440
00:24:39.519 --> 00:24:43.839
<v Speaker 1>movie isn't that. This is a superhero jukebox musical, which

441
00:24:43.880 --> 00:24:47.759
<v Speaker 1>means they are not original songs. They're hovers of other

442
00:24:47.759 --> 00:24:51.519
<v Speaker 1>people songs like Rock of Ages, like Mama Me. But

443
00:24:51.599 --> 00:24:55.400
<v Speaker 1>here's the thing, they chose the Great American Songbook. I'm

444
00:24:55.400 --> 00:24:59.960
<v Speaker 1>not bemoaning. However, the audience that is this movie is

445
00:25:00.119 --> 00:25:03.440
<v Speaker 1>being made for is not going to really have a

446
00:25:03.559 --> 00:25:07.640
<v Speaker 1>fucking clue any of these songs, and that is a

447
00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:11.680
<v Speaker 1>shame to me. And again because I'm not saying it

448
00:25:11.680 --> 00:25:14.920
<v Speaker 1>should have all been like the most recent bullshit hip

449
00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:18.160
<v Speaker 1>hop R and B pop nonsense. I'm not saying that,

450
00:25:18.240 --> 00:25:21.359
<v Speaker 1>but I feel like they really should have just been like, hey,

451
00:25:21.400 --> 00:25:26.960
<v Speaker 1>Lady Gaga or somebody write some original songs for this thing. Really,

452
00:25:27.400 --> 00:25:29.799
<v Speaker 1>if you have Lady Gaga and you're paying her twenty

453
00:25:29.880 --> 00:25:31.440
<v Speaker 1>million dollars.

454
00:25:31.279 --> 00:25:34.920
<v Speaker 2>Everything that you liked, I didn't like, and vice versa,

455
00:25:35.000 --> 00:25:38.279
<v Speaker 2>because I actually really liked the recontextualization of the older

456
00:25:38.319 --> 00:25:43.039
<v Speaker 2>songs and using those especially That's entertainment, Superhero, musical, Doctor

457
00:25:43.079 --> 00:25:44.319
<v Speaker 2>Horrible signalong blog.

458
00:25:44.440 --> 00:25:47.200
<v Speaker 1>Come on, But that's my point. When you write all

459
00:25:47.240 --> 00:25:49.400
<v Speaker 1>the songs, there are songs in there that stick with

460
00:25:49.400 --> 00:25:52.000
<v Speaker 1>me for a lot longer. And I mean again, don't

461
00:25:52.039 --> 00:25:54.720
<v Speaker 1>get me wrong, I'm not saying I don't like them

462
00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:58.000
<v Speaker 1>using the songs that they used. It's just for me.

463
00:25:59.039 --> 00:26:01.440
<v Speaker 1>I feel like the audio for this movie would have

464
00:26:01.480 --> 00:26:04.240
<v Speaker 1>been better served with a little bit more recent music,

465
00:26:04.359 --> 00:26:08.200
<v Speaker 1>like maybe music from the eighties even or seven. Like

466
00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:09.440
<v Speaker 1>I know that some of the music is from the

467
00:26:09.440 --> 00:26:10.759
<v Speaker 1>seventies obviously.

468
00:26:10.480 --> 00:26:12.599
<v Speaker 2>Oh and even farther it goes back all the way

469
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:14.359
<v Speaker 2>to the fifties and even forties.

470
00:26:14.799 --> 00:26:17.759
<v Speaker 1>I think that, in my mind that it should have

471
00:26:17.839 --> 00:26:22.200
<v Speaker 1>either been a musical from the original musical and nothing else.

472
00:26:22.200 --> 00:26:24.440
<v Speaker 1>We're not doing a jukeboxer don't do that at all.

473
00:26:25.160 --> 00:26:28.160
<v Speaker 1>I like jukebox musicals fine enough, but I really love

474
00:26:28.200 --> 00:26:31.440
<v Speaker 1>an original musical a lot more. Because jutebox musicals are

475
00:26:31.480 --> 00:26:34.319
<v Speaker 1>just covering songs. I don't listen to the Rock of

476
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:37.440
<v Speaker 1>Ages version of any of those songs. I'll go listen

477
00:26:37.480 --> 00:26:40.000
<v Speaker 1>to the original ones. If there was ever Talking Heads

478
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:43.599
<v Speaker 1>jutebox musical, I'm probably listening to the songs, but I'm

479
00:26:43.640 --> 00:26:46.559
<v Speaker 1>not sure that they would be in my rotation, just

480
00:26:46.599 --> 00:26:48.880
<v Speaker 1>like I'm not sure Jaquin, Phoenix and Lady gog has

481
00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:50.400
<v Speaker 1>versions of any of their songs are going to be

482
00:26:50.440 --> 00:26:53.160
<v Speaker 1>in my rotation. There might be one or two. To

483
00:26:53.240 --> 00:26:55.680
<v Speaker 1>Love Somebody is pretty good. That musical number is the

484
00:26:55.720 --> 00:26:57.440
<v Speaker 1>Great Woe where he just starts getting mad at her

485
00:26:57.519 --> 00:27:01.680
<v Speaker 1>upstaging him, which is really funny, and I think, honestly

486
00:27:01.799 --> 00:27:04.079
<v Speaker 1>like that's the thing that with Lady Gaga feels like

487
00:27:04.079 --> 00:27:06.119
<v Speaker 1>the missed opportunity. So how much do you know about

488
00:27:06.119 --> 00:27:09.039
<v Speaker 1>the ending of the movie as it was originally shot?

489
00:27:09.920 --> 00:27:13.839
<v Speaker 2>Nothing at all. I have not. I knew that the

490
00:27:14.000 --> 00:27:18.640
<v Speaker 2>ending of this movie was a discoarded idea from the

491
00:27:18.640 --> 00:27:19.680
<v Speaker 2>first movie.

492
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:21.960
<v Speaker 1>And you can see it on Twitter as well, that

493
00:27:22.119 --> 00:27:25.359
<v Speaker 1>Lady Gaga was supposed to kill Joker on the steps.

494
00:27:25.880 --> 00:27:30.400
<v Speaker 2>That makes sense, Yeah, yeah.

495
00:27:29.359 --> 00:27:32.839
<v Speaker 1>And take his place, And that makes so much more

496
00:27:33.039 --> 00:27:36.680
<v Speaker 1>sense because that's literally what the whole movie is building too.

497
00:27:36.759 --> 00:27:39.559
<v Speaker 1>It's fully a du it's it's insanity of two. It's

498
00:27:39.599 --> 00:27:43.519
<v Speaker 1>insanity shared by two people, if you want to take

499
00:27:43.519 --> 00:27:46.480
<v Speaker 1>it literally, but other than just her being near him.

500
00:27:46.480 --> 00:27:48.079
<v Speaker 1>And then by the end of the movie, he takes

501
00:27:48.119 --> 00:27:51.599
<v Speaker 1>the makeup off, and in that scene where he's stopped singing,

502
00:27:52.039 --> 00:27:55.279
<v Speaker 1>she has the makeup on it. It's so she's taken

503
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:57.359
<v Speaker 1>on the mantle of him. And then when she says

504
00:27:57.400 --> 00:28:00.799
<v Speaker 1>goodbye Arthur, I am convinced that's the cut right there

505
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:03.319
<v Speaker 1>where it would have been her killing him, because you

506
00:28:03.319 --> 00:28:05.559
<v Speaker 1>can see footage of it online of her killing him

507
00:28:05.759 --> 00:28:09.200
<v Speaker 1>or at least her getting arrested on the steps, just her,

508
00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:11.759
<v Speaker 1>and that was the original ending, and it would have

509
00:28:11.799 --> 00:28:14.960
<v Speaker 1>worked so much better. It makes so much more narrative

510
00:28:15.279 --> 00:28:18.000
<v Speaker 1>and thematic sense in terms of the story that they're

511
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:20.960
<v Speaker 1>trying to tell, in terms of even the way they're

512
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:25.799
<v Speaker 1>using that's entertainment. She's upstaging him. That's like her job.

513
00:28:25.839 --> 00:28:28.559
<v Speaker 1>Throughout the entire movie, She's making it about herself to

514
00:28:28.599 --> 00:28:30.599
<v Speaker 1>the point where she wants to be him and then

515
00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:33.680
<v Speaker 1>she kills him to become him. Then you could do

516
00:28:33.720 --> 00:28:36.480
<v Speaker 1>a third Joker movie with Lady Gaga in the lead role,

517
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:39.720
<v Speaker 1>and that might actually be an interesting movie, a Harley

518
00:28:39.799 --> 00:28:43.039
<v Speaker 1>Quinn jukebox musical featuring the music of Lady Gaga, who

519
00:28:43.079 --> 00:28:47.359
<v Speaker 1>also plays Harley Quinn. Actually, because I know some people said, oh,

520
00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:49.359
<v Speaker 1>the ending of this movie redeemed the movie, I think

521
00:28:49.400 --> 00:28:51.799
<v Speaker 1>the ending of this movie fucking made this movie a

522
00:28:51.839 --> 00:28:54.000
<v Speaker 1>little like. People are like, the ending of this movie's

523
00:28:54.000 --> 00:28:55.599
<v Speaker 1>wild enough, you need to check the movie out, and

524
00:28:55.640 --> 00:28:58.000
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, I don't think so. I think if the

525
00:28:58.480 --> 00:29:00.759
<v Speaker 1>ending had been the one of the versions of the

526
00:29:00.839 --> 00:29:03.920
<v Speaker 1>ending they shot, I think I would agree because having

527
00:29:04.000 --> 00:29:07.279
<v Speaker 1>Lady Gag got kill one of the more iconic versions

528
00:29:07.319 --> 00:29:09.240
<v Speaker 1>for many people of the Joker at the end of

529
00:29:09.279 --> 00:29:13.480
<v Speaker 1>his movie would be a pretty big moment, right, And

530
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:15.720
<v Speaker 1>to rob the movie of that is a shame.

531
00:29:18.039 --> 00:29:22.079
<v Speaker 2>Her character is interesting because she this whole thing of that.

532
00:29:22.119 --> 00:29:26.519
<v Speaker 2>She's this kind of poor little rich girl fangirl of criminals.

533
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:30.519
<v Speaker 2>She had checked herself into the mental institution and had

534
00:29:30.920 --> 00:29:34.119
<v Speaker 2>followed his case and lied to him about how much

535
00:29:34.160 --> 00:29:37.319
<v Speaker 2>she liked the TV movie which I keep thinking, Like

536
00:29:37.359 --> 00:29:40.000
<v Speaker 2>when they're talking about the shitty TV movie, I'm like,

537
00:29:40.160 --> 00:29:44.079
<v Speaker 2>is that the first movie? Is that what we're referring

538
00:29:44.119 --> 00:29:47.599
<v Speaker 2>to is the first movie? I don't know that. I

539
00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:49.920
<v Speaker 2>thought that would have been Yeah, I thought that would

540
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:54.119
<v Speaker 2>have been kind of clever. Actually a couple of things

541
00:29:54.160 --> 00:29:56.519
<v Speaker 2>real quick, just I want to bounce this stuff off

542
00:29:56.559 --> 00:29:59.880
<v Speaker 2>of you. First off, when Arthur is getting his med

543
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:03.279
<v Speaker 2>at the very beginning and there's a one of his

544
00:30:03.759 --> 00:30:05.119
<v Speaker 2>fellow inmates goes.

545
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:05.480
<v Speaker 1>He bit me.

546
00:30:06.160 --> 00:30:08.680
<v Speaker 2>He didn't bite the guy. I don't know what's going on.

547
00:30:08.759 --> 00:30:10.960
<v Speaker 2>And then they even say like, oh, yeah, he bit

548
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:12.960
<v Speaker 2>a guy, and I was like, no, he didn't. I

549
00:30:13.000 --> 00:30:16.799
<v Speaker 2>watched that multiple multiple times, and he never bites that guy.

550
00:30:17.279 --> 00:30:19.920
<v Speaker 2>Is that the guy who ends up killing him at

551
00:30:19.920 --> 00:30:21.759
<v Speaker 2>the end of the movie, Because at first I thought

552
00:30:21.799 --> 00:30:24.559
<v Speaker 2>it was going to be the little guy. Well he's

553
00:30:24.599 --> 00:30:28.000
<v Speaker 2>not little, but he's like kind of young and innocent

554
00:30:28.079 --> 00:30:30.920
<v Speaker 2>and dumb to the guy that he kisses in the

555
00:30:31.039 --> 00:30:33.240
<v Speaker 2>yard at prison. But then I think that he's the

556
00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:38.759
<v Speaker 2>one who gets killed. When when jokers getting raped, is

557
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:41.279
<v Speaker 2>that right or what outs after the rape scene? I

558
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:44.440
<v Speaker 2>think it is you can hear somebody getting murdered outside

559
00:30:44.440 --> 00:30:45.880
<v Speaker 2>of his cell and I want to say, it's that

560
00:30:45.960 --> 00:30:46.519
<v Speaker 2>little guy.

561
00:30:46.960 --> 00:30:49.279
<v Speaker 1>It is so that. Yeah, at the beginning of the movie,

562
00:30:50.079 --> 00:30:53.839
<v Speaker 1>that scene, that guy who ends up okay at the

563
00:30:53.920 --> 00:30:55.119
<v Speaker 1>end of the movie. We'll talk about the end of

564
00:30:55.119 --> 00:30:56.480
<v Speaker 1>the movie in a moment. But the character from the

565
00:30:56.559 --> 00:30:58.559
<v Speaker 1>end of the movie is trying to grab him right

566
00:30:58.599 --> 00:31:01.279
<v Speaker 1>then and there the first five minutes the movie to

567
00:31:01.319 --> 00:31:03.319
<v Speaker 1>do I think to stab him right then and there.

568
00:31:04.279 --> 00:31:07.480
<v Speaker 1>I don't know. You see him going for him and

569
00:31:07.519 --> 00:31:10.440
<v Speaker 1>then somebody draws him back. It is the character from

570
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:12.920
<v Speaker 1>the end of the movie that's going for him at

571
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:15.079
<v Speaker 1>the beginning of the movie, in the first two minutes

572
00:31:15.119 --> 00:31:18.519
<v Speaker 1>of the movie, that guy is going to grab him

573
00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:21.440
<v Speaker 1>and do something to him within two seconds of the

574
00:31:21.440 --> 00:31:24.359
<v Speaker 1>movie start. I don't know what that's supposed to mean.

575
00:31:24.599 --> 00:31:26.000
<v Speaker 2>No, I'm not sure either.

576
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:27.640
<v Speaker 1>The other than just like this has been there this

577
00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:32.519
<v Speaker 1>whole time, and he's just been completely unaware or convincing

578
00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:35.279
<v Speaker 1>himself that, like everyone in there is on his side

579
00:31:35.279 --> 00:31:38.759
<v Speaker 1>and believes in him, and that's not the case. I

580
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:42.240
<v Speaker 1>love the idea in this movie of watching this guy

581
00:31:42.279 --> 00:31:45.079
<v Speaker 1>try to convince himself that the world is on his

582
00:31:45.200 --> 00:31:47.359
<v Speaker 1>side and it's not on his side. That they're on

583
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:49.720
<v Speaker 1>the side of this person that he created. They couldn't

584
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:53.319
<v Speaker 1>give a singular shit about him, and that is what

585
00:31:53.519 --> 00:31:56.759
<v Speaker 1>factors into the end of the movie. With the character

586
00:31:56.799 --> 00:31:57.799
<v Speaker 1>that you're talking about.

587
00:31:58.400 --> 00:32:01.960
<v Speaker 2>There's that almost parallel scene of Lady Gaga kissing a

588
00:32:02.000 --> 00:32:04.400
<v Speaker 2>woman that ended up getting cut out, but I believe

589
00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:05.279
<v Speaker 2>that's in the trailer.

590
00:32:06.400 --> 00:32:08.720
<v Speaker 1>I think so, right, Yeah, it's.

591
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:11.279
<v Speaker 2>A woman that recognizes her while she's going to the

592
00:32:11.319 --> 00:32:13.720
<v Speaker 2>courtroom and it looks like she's gonna attack her, and

593
00:32:13.720 --> 00:32:15.279
<v Speaker 2>she ends up kissing her instead.

594
00:32:15.799 --> 00:32:18.359
<v Speaker 1>Before we talk about the ending, and I think the

595
00:32:18.720 --> 00:32:21.440
<v Speaker 1>third act of the movie. You mentioned the rape scene,

596
00:32:21.920 --> 00:32:24.960
<v Speaker 1>but the audacity of the film because it's not that

597
00:32:25.039 --> 00:32:27.079
<v Speaker 1>I didn't read it that way. I did read it

598
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.359
<v Speaker 1>as a rape scene. If it was a female character

599
00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:32.759
<v Speaker 1>that was happening too, that's how you would read it, right,

600
00:32:33.400 --> 00:32:36.640
<v Speaker 1>And I'm assuming that's what it was. But good lord,

601
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:41.400
<v Speaker 1>movie that's pushing the boundaries of good taste. If there

602
00:32:41.400 --> 00:32:43.279
<v Speaker 1>is any good taste in this movie at all, it's

603
00:32:43.319 --> 00:32:45.559
<v Speaker 1>like trying to ramp itself up and be extreme to

604
00:32:45.640 --> 00:32:48.440
<v Speaker 1>what end. This is awful. The world is awful. We

605
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:51.839
<v Speaker 1>get it, and I think that's the moment that breaks

606
00:32:51.880 --> 00:32:55.359
<v Speaker 1>the Joker. We cut back to that first movie, the

607
00:32:55.400 --> 00:32:57.519
<v Speaker 1>scene in the first movie where he's washing the makeup

608
00:32:57.559 --> 00:33:00.039
<v Speaker 1>off of his face, and that's the moment where the

609
00:33:00.119 --> 00:33:03.599
<v Speaker 1>Joker is gone because he realizes that there is nothing

610
00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:06.480
<v Speaker 1>he can do. It's all a charade, it's all a facade.

611
00:33:06.559 --> 00:33:09.279
<v Speaker 1>In reality, he cannot escape and he's fucked.

612
00:33:09.559 --> 00:33:12.960
<v Speaker 2>You see that guy who was going for him again

613
00:33:13.200 --> 00:33:17.480
<v Speaker 2>when Arthur's singing for once in my life in the room.

614
00:33:17.839 --> 00:33:19.920
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that was one of the things too, where

615
00:33:20.000 --> 00:33:24.519
<v Speaker 2>I kept wondering to myself, are these musical numbers in

616
00:33:24.640 --> 00:33:29.880
<v Speaker 2>his head? Are they really happening? I'm not exactly sure.

617
00:33:30.160 --> 00:33:31.839
<v Speaker 2>I think the movie kind of wants it to be

618
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:34.880
<v Speaker 2>both ways. The other thing I kept thinking through probably

619
00:33:34.920 --> 00:33:39.200
<v Speaker 2>the first half of the movie, actually well through the

620
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:42.519
<v Speaker 2>first hour, I kept thinking that Lady Gaga didn't even exist.

621
00:33:42.559 --> 00:33:46.559
<v Speaker 2>I thought she was a figment of his imagination. And

622
00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:50.319
<v Speaker 2>even when they break out a out of the sanitarium

623
00:33:50.359 --> 00:33:53.240
<v Speaker 2>and stuff like, he ends up getting caught, she runs away,

624
00:33:53.319 --> 00:33:57.200
<v Speaker 2>I'm just like, yeah, it feels very very Tyler Durdon

625
00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:59.680
<v Speaker 2>esque to me, and I thought that that's what we're doing,

626
00:34:00.079 --> 00:34:03.519
<v Speaker 2>And until other people. Wasn't really until Catherine Keener said, oh,

627
00:34:03.559 --> 00:34:06.519
<v Speaker 2>you know your little friend, she's out giving interviews, and

628
00:34:06.559 --> 00:34:08.840
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, okay, so she's a real person.

629
00:34:09.119 --> 00:34:11.000
<v Speaker 2>Like just the way that they shot this, I did

630
00:34:11.039 --> 00:34:13.320
<v Speaker 2>not think that she actually existed. I mean there's the

631
00:34:13.400 --> 00:34:15.719
<v Speaker 2>sex scene and everything, and I'm just like, Oh, he's

632
00:34:15.760 --> 00:34:18.519
<v Speaker 2>in a cell just jerking it thinking of Lady Gaga

633
00:34:18.559 --> 00:34:21.119
<v Speaker 2>and who doesn't really exist?

634
00:34:21.519 --> 00:34:24.599
<v Speaker 1>Could she have been a figment of his imagination? Know

635
00:34:24.719 --> 00:34:26.440
<v Speaker 1>that there are people that are, like you said, having

636
00:34:26.519 --> 00:34:28.760
<v Speaker 1>interviews and all that, but is that in Arthur's head

637
00:34:28.760 --> 00:34:32.440
<v Speaker 1>as well? That's a problem with a unreliable narrator movie,

638
00:34:32.519 --> 00:34:36.159
<v Speaker 1>which I'll say what this movie reminded me of as well,

639
00:34:36.199 --> 00:34:40.159
<v Speaker 1>in terms of we have a deplorable character who did

640
00:34:40.199 --> 00:34:43.480
<v Speaker 1>at least some terrible things. Thinks he did more terrible things,

641
00:34:43.480 --> 00:34:45.440
<v Speaker 1>but again, some of the terrible stuff he did, we

642
00:34:45.480 --> 00:34:47.679
<v Speaker 1>know about some of the terrible stuff he thought he did,

643
00:34:47.679 --> 00:34:50.039
<v Speaker 1>but he didn't do. Yeah, like he did some of that,

644
00:34:50.079 --> 00:34:51.800
<v Speaker 1>but he didn't do all of it. What is going on?

645
00:34:52.760 --> 00:34:55.559
<v Speaker 1>Is he a reliable narrator? How reliable is he? How

646
00:34:55.639 --> 00:34:58.559
<v Speaker 1>unreliable is he? Where is the line? I feel like

647
00:34:58.599 --> 00:35:02.599
<v Speaker 1>that's very in this movie again, because the whole film

648
00:35:02.639 --> 00:35:05.280
<v Speaker 1>is shot from his perspective, especially when we go into

649
00:35:05.320 --> 00:35:09.440
<v Speaker 1>these interior in his head scenes. We have that in

650
00:35:09.519 --> 00:35:11.679
<v Speaker 1>plenty of old school musicals, where you literally are in

651
00:35:11.760 --> 00:35:15.559
<v Speaker 1>the character's mind doing a musical number or they're explaining

652
00:35:15.559 --> 00:35:19.079
<v Speaker 1>what happened through a musical number. They don't do this anymore,

653
00:35:19.119 --> 00:35:21.840
<v Speaker 1>which I think is the other reason this movie blopped.

654
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:25.159
<v Speaker 1>This movie I think would have benefited from having come

655
00:35:25.199 --> 00:35:27.599
<v Speaker 1>out a long time ago, because I think this movie

656
00:35:27.800 --> 00:35:31.480
<v Speaker 1>is better suited for an audience in the seventies. This

657
00:35:31.559 --> 00:35:35.719
<v Speaker 1>is a very seventies facing movie, just like Joker was,

658
00:35:35.800 --> 00:35:38.440
<v Speaker 1>like in the way that it was facing King of Comedy, right,

659
00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:42.719
<v Speaker 1>like it's facing the late eighties or late seventies, early eighties,

660
00:35:42.760 --> 00:35:44.960
<v Speaker 1>these kinds of movies. That's what it's trying to be,

661
00:35:45.199 --> 00:35:48.719
<v Speaker 1>but doing a very weird kind of mishmash of things.

662
00:35:48.760 --> 00:35:52.960
<v Speaker 1>But it's wearing what it's inspired by on its sleeves.

663
00:35:54.239 --> 00:35:57.599
<v Speaker 2>I guess if if he's continuing to rip off Scorsese,

664
00:35:57.800 --> 00:35:59.920
<v Speaker 2>this is the New York, New York of it all.

665
00:36:01.119 --> 00:36:03.079
<v Speaker 1>I have never seen New York.

666
00:36:03.400 --> 00:36:05.960
<v Speaker 2>There's a very large club of people that have never

667
00:36:06.000 --> 00:36:06.880
<v Speaker 2>seen that movie.

668
00:36:07.280 --> 00:36:08.920
<v Speaker 1>Oh it's like a performance musical.

669
00:36:11.880 --> 00:36:15.920
<v Speaker 2>Yes, though it's not you know, it's not the typical musical.

670
00:36:16.039 --> 00:36:18.840
<v Speaker 2>Let's put it that way. It's more like, yeah, well

671
00:36:18.880 --> 00:36:22.079
<v Speaker 2>it's also there. It's diegetic because it's you know, in

672
00:36:22.119 --> 00:36:23.239
<v Speaker 2>a club type of thing.

673
00:36:25.840 --> 00:36:26.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

674
00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:28.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh that was the other thing because when she comes

675
00:36:28.280 --> 00:36:30.159
<v Speaker 2>in and they have sex, she's like, oh, yeah, they

676
00:36:30.280 --> 00:36:32.079
<v Speaker 2>let me in here, and I'm just like, how did

677
00:36:32.119 --> 00:36:34.320
<v Speaker 2>you get in here? This doesn't make any sense that

678
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:37.159
<v Speaker 2>he's in solitary and they just let her in there.

679
00:36:37.199 --> 00:36:39.480
<v Speaker 2>So that was another thing. And then when she says

680
00:36:39.519 --> 00:36:42.440
<v Speaker 2>that she's pregnant, I'm just like, yeah, no, you're not pregnant,

681
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:45.559
<v Speaker 2>you know. I just you're not. And you're just trying

682
00:36:45.559 --> 00:36:48.360
<v Speaker 2>to manipulate him. And that's her whole thing, is manipulating him,

683
00:36:48.360 --> 00:36:53.079
<v Speaker 2>and it's him disappointing her constantly. And when he says like,

684
00:36:53.280 --> 00:36:56.239
<v Speaker 2>I'm Arthur Fleck, the joker isn't real, you know, I

685
00:36:56.320 --> 00:36:58.119
<v Speaker 2>just put on the makeup kind of thing, and like

686
00:36:58.159 --> 00:37:00.159
<v Speaker 2>you're saying, like he takes off the makeup and that

687
00:37:01.199 --> 00:37:06.320
<v Speaker 2>post rape scene in his mind, he is betraying her

688
00:37:06.400 --> 00:37:08.880
<v Speaker 2>in her mind, and I'm just like, yeah, so her

689
00:37:09.039 --> 00:37:11.800
<v Speaker 2>murdering him at the end really would have made a

690
00:37:11.840 --> 00:37:12.639
<v Speaker 2>lot more sense.

691
00:37:15.840 --> 00:37:17.800
<v Speaker 1>It would have been the perfect ending to the movie.

692
00:37:17.840 --> 00:37:18.360
<v Speaker 1>Straight up.

693
00:37:21.039 --> 00:37:23.519
<v Speaker 2>I have to tell you, the most harrowing scene for me,

694
00:37:23.760 --> 00:37:27.760
<v Speaker 2>even more than the rape scene, is that scene I

695
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:31.079
<v Speaker 2>was mentioning before, when he is dressed up as the

696
00:37:31.159 --> 00:37:35.039
<v Speaker 2>Joker and doing the whole courtroom stick when he has

697
00:37:35.320 --> 00:37:39.280
<v Speaker 2>Lee Gil as Gary puddles on the stand. That's the

698
00:37:39.360 --> 00:37:43.760
<v Speaker 2>most harrowing scene for me, you know, with Lee just

699
00:37:43.840 --> 00:37:47.159
<v Speaker 2>giving this incredible performance and he's just like, you know,

700
00:37:47.320 --> 00:37:49.679
<v Speaker 2>you're the only one who is ever nice to me.

701
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:54.880
<v Speaker 2>And speaking of betrayal, Arthur betrayed Gary, you know, because

702
00:37:55.480 --> 00:37:57.519
<v Speaker 2>he was the only one who was ever nice to him,

703
00:37:57.960 --> 00:38:03.639
<v Speaker 2>and then he lives in constant fear that Arthur or

704
00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:05.920
<v Speaker 2>somebody else is going to just shoot the poor guy.

705
00:38:06.360 --> 00:38:09.239
<v Speaker 2>And I just felt so bad for him. That scene

706
00:38:09.280 --> 00:38:11.679
<v Speaker 2>just tore my fucking heart out. And I think that's

707
00:38:11.719 --> 00:38:13.559
<v Speaker 2>another reason why I don't like this movie, is because

708
00:38:13.559 --> 00:38:16.159
<v Speaker 2>I felt very manipulated at that point too.

709
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:20.199
<v Speaker 1>I again, so and this is where I think Todd

710
00:38:20.239 --> 00:38:23.679
<v Speaker 1>Phillips is going to the talking about real life people

711
00:38:23.760 --> 00:38:27.440
<v Speaker 1>through the metaphor of film, because in the real world,

712
00:38:27.880 --> 00:38:31.800
<v Speaker 1>There are people who even your association with them can

713
00:38:31.880 --> 00:38:34.920
<v Speaker 1>cause you ire in real life or your feelings towards

714
00:38:34.960 --> 00:38:38.039
<v Speaker 1>them should they be outed publicly. There are people out

715
00:38:38.039 --> 00:38:39.920
<v Speaker 1>there that will take it upon themselves to go out

716
00:38:39.920 --> 00:38:41.599
<v Speaker 1>of their way to make your life miserable just because

717
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:44.159
<v Speaker 1>they don't agree with some binary choice that you've made.

718
00:38:44.719 --> 00:38:48.159
<v Speaker 1>And that scene, for me, I think is the best

719
00:38:48.239 --> 00:38:51.159
<v Speaker 1>scene in the entire movie, outside of the musical stuff.

720
00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:53.559
<v Speaker 1>If we're talking about the musical scenes are their own thing,

721
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:56.800
<v Speaker 1>and I can't address the non musical stuff because I

722
00:38:56.800 --> 00:38:59.400
<v Speaker 1>think there's two movies here. There's the musical thing, and

723
00:38:59.440 --> 00:39:03.719
<v Speaker 1>then there's a very fucking horrifying character study of someone

724
00:39:03.760 --> 00:39:08.519
<v Speaker 1>who is a deeply mentally unwell person who the system

725
00:39:08.559 --> 00:39:12.199
<v Speaker 1>has failed at every turn to the point of them

726
00:39:12.280 --> 00:39:15.360
<v Speaker 1>having no outlet for anything other than to go and

727
00:39:15.400 --> 00:39:19.159
<v Speaker 1>be violent and justify the violence away. And then we

728
00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:21.519
<v Speaker 1>get to see this scene which shows, like, no, these

729
00:39:21.559 --> 00:39:24.920
<v Speaker 1>people are deeply fucked up, and the worst part about

730
00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:27.239
<v Speaker 1>this is not what they've done, but the way it

731
00:39:27.280 --> 00:39:30.639
<v Speaker 1>affects everybody around them, because we see the legal character

732
00:39:30.800 --> 00:39:33.800
<v Speaker 1>being I'm terrified of you, I'm terrified to live. I

733
00:39:33.800 --> 00:39:35.719
<v Speaker 1>have PTSD. Every day, and then we get to see

734
00:39:36.039 --> 00:39:39.039
<v Speaker 1>some of the parents of the people that Joker murdered

735
00:39:39.119 --> 00:39:43.159
<v Speaker 1>on the train. They don't deserve to die, they're just assholes,

736
00:39:43.159 --> 00:39:46.280
<v Speaker 1>but he kills them. And you see the parents of

737
00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:49.119
<v Speaker 1>these people in the courtroom ready and willing to kill

738
00:39:49.239 --> 00:39:52.440
<v Speaker 1>Arthur Fleck as well, to push themselves further than they

739
00:39:52.480 --> 00:39:54.920
<v Speaker 1>probably ever would have thought as human beings. And so

740
00:39:54.960 --> 00:39:57.760
<v Speaker 1>I think it's interesting, similarly to something like Zodiac, you

741
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:00.440
<v Speaker 1>get to see the by proxy of how terrible people

742
00:40:00.519 --> 00:40:03.239
<v Speaker 1>affect the community and world around them. And in this

743
00:40:03.280 --> 00:40:07.360
<v Speaker 1>movie you get to see very much localized within several

744
00:40:07.440 --> 00:40:09.840
<v Speaker 1>characters from the last movie I'm Shocked, we get to

745
00:40:09.840 --> 00:40:12.199
<v Speaker 1>see Lee Gill again in this movie I'm Shocked. Zazzi

746
00:40:12.320 --> 00:40:16.519
<v Speaker 1>beats shows back up. But those are scenes that make

747
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:19.360
<v Speaker 1>this movie for me worth watching because those scenes are horrifying.

748
00:40:20.039 --> 00:40:22.199
<v Speaker 1>It's like taking all of the things that we've seen

749
00:40:22.239 --> 00:40:26.360
<v Speaker 1>in real life and distilling it down into No. The Joker,

750
00:40:26.400 --> 00:40:28.039
<v Speaker 1>if he was a real person, would not be someone

751
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:30.079
<v Speaker 1>anyone would I had Liz. He's a fucking nightmare of

752
00:40:30.119 --> 00:40:32.880
<v Speaker 1>a human being. Even when he's not the Joker, he's

753
00:40:32.920 --> 00:40:35.079
<v Speaker 1>a nightmare of a human being, let alone when he's

754
00:40:35.079 --> 00:40:37.519
<v Speaker 1>the Joker, which is this version of this guy with

755
00:40:37.719 --> 00:40:41.039
<v Speaker 1>all of the limitters taken off, all the med limitters

756
00:40:41.079 --> 00:40:43.400
<v Speaker 1>and everything else. And that's the thing. In the first

757
00:40:43.400 --> 00:40:45.760
<v Speaker 1>movie he says, I stopped taking my meds and I

758
00:40:45.800 --> 00:40:49.039
<v Speaker 1>feel better, and it's like, oh no, And we see

759
00:40:49.039 --> 00:40:55.800
<v Speaker 1>that in The Joker is the externalization of him without

760
00:40:55.800 --> 00:40:59.840
<v Speaker 1>his meds and mental illness. Like this movie is the

761
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:04.039
<v Speaker 1>Joker as mental illness made old. It's the Kafka esque.

762
00:41:04.039 --> 00:41:09.079
<v Speaker 1>It's like anthrop They've anthropomorphized that into a real character,

763
00:41:09.159 --> 00:41:11.920
<v Speaker 1>which is this face paint that he puts on. The

764
00:41:12.039 --> 00:41:17.079
<v Speaker 1>Joker is mental illness. It's almost a horror. If they

765
00:41:17.079 --> 00:41:21.639
<v Speaker 1>ever make that Grant Morrison Arkham Asylum graphic novel into

766
00:41:21.679 --> 00:41:24.400
<v Speaker 1>a movie, that will be probably the furthest that they

767
00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:27.800
<v Speaker 1>go in terms of addressing the Joker as a thing

768
00:41:27.880 --> 00:41:29.639
<v Speaker 1>as a stand in for things. But this does a

769
00:41:29.639 --> 00:41:33.239
<v Speaker 1>pretty good job in making the Joker character the stand

770
00:41:33.280 --> 00:41:38.719
<v Speaker 1>in for the overwhelmingly awful effects of meant of untreated

771
00:41:38.760 --> 00:41:43.440
<v Speaker 1>mental health, either by choice or by negligence on the

772
00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:45.920
<v Speaker 1>person who it's happening to and the people surrounding them.

773
00:41:46.239 --> 00:41:50.320
<v Speaker 1>This movie just treads water, unfortunately, and that's even I'm

774
00:41:50.320 --> 00:41:52.039
<v Speaker 1>saying that as much as I enjoyed this movie, which

775
00:41:52.039 --> 00:41:54.360
<v Speaker 1>I enjoyed this movie a fair amount the third time

776
00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:57.000
<v Speaker 1>I windly watched it, it does tread water because I

777
00:41:57.000 --> 00:41:59.639
<v Speaker 1>don't think anybody really wanted to watch a movie that

778
00:41:59.760 --> 00:42:02.440
<v Speaker 1>just spends the whole time talking about the last movie.

779
00:42:02.480 --> 00:42:04.280
<v Speaker 1>That's a weird thing, right.

780
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:11.719
<v Speaker 2>It is. Yeah, it's definitely an interesting way to approach

781
00:42:11.719 --> 00:42:16.360
<v Speaker 2>a sequel, to just tear apart or take apart the

782
00:42:16.440 --> 00:42:20.159
<v Speaker 2>first movie, and there's you know, you're talking about the

783
00:42:20.760 --> 00:42:25.159
<v Speaker 2>DC of it all and some of those little things

784
00:42:25.159 --> 00:42:28.800
<v Speaker 2>that they have in here, like oh, after the big explosion,

785
00:42:29.119 --> 00:42:32.719
<v Speaker 2>Harvey Dent's face is fucked up. Oh, or you know,

786
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:37.079
<v Speaker 2>after he gets murdered by the other patient, you hear

787
00:42:37.159 --> 00:42:40.840
<v Speaker 2>him slice his face open. So is that Heath Ledgers joker.

788
00:42:40.920 --> 00:42:44.480
<v Speaker 2>It's like, okay, yeah, I guess. You know, those are

789
00:42:44.519 --> 00:42:48.880
<v Speaker 2>the little comic bookie things that you know, screen Rant

790
00:42:48.960 --> 00:42:52.000
<v Speaker 2>or some of those other a holes on YouTube will

791
00:42:52.039 --> 00:42:55.320
<v Speaker 2>just fall all over themselves to try to tie this

792
00:42:55.519 --> 00:42:59.039
<v Speaker 2>into the bigger universe and find all the Easter eggs

793
00:42:59.039 --> 00:43:01.760
<v Speaker 2>and things. I'm like, I could give a shit, you know.

794
00:43:01.880 --> 00:43:06.119
<v Speaker 2>It's just like it's it's bredon circuses for the masses.

795
00:43:11.440 --> 00:43:14.760
<v Speaker 1>That and it's funny you mentioned trying to tie it

796
00:43:14.800 --> 00:43:17.360
<v Speaker 1>into things. I think this movie would have been better

797
00:43:17.400 --> 00:43:19.360
<v Speaker 1>if you had no idea was a Joker movie until

798
00:43:19.400 --> 00:43:21.760
<v Speaker 1>he puts the face Painton and then oh my god,

799
00:43:21.840 --> 00:43:24.400
<v Speaker 1>it's a Joker movie. Imagine what that first movie would

800
00:43:24.400 --> 00:43:26.599
<v Speaker 1>have been if that had been the kind of the

801
00:43:26.639 --> 00:43:29.280
<v Speaker 1>final conceit of the movie as oh, this is a

802
00:43:29.400 --> 00:43:32.360
<v Speaker 1>Joker thing. Oh my god. But no, to your point,

803
00:43:32.360 --> 00:43:34.599
<v Speaker 1>it's like, oh my god, to connect it at the end,

804
00:43:34.679 --> 00:43:36.559
<v Speaker 1>or try to connect it. But I don't even that's

805
00:43:36.559 --> 00:43:38.559
<v Speaker 1>the thing, Like I didn't. I initially looked at it as,

806
00:43:38.639 --> 00:43:40.519
<v Speaker 1>oh my god, it's the connecting it back to the

807
00:43:40.599 --> 00:43:43.599
<v Speaker 1>Dark Knight. Nah, it's not that at all. I think

808
00:43:43.639 --> 00:43:47.119
<v Speaker 1>it's more just the idea of every universe that has

809
00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:51.760
<v Speaker 1>the Joker. There's Batman, and there's Bruce Wayne, and there's

810
00:43:51.800 --> 00:43:54.880
<v Speaker 1>Thomas Wayne, and there's Harvey Dent. But here's the thing,

811
00:43:55.280 --> 00:43:58.760
<v Speaker 1>this guy was never the Joker. He was a Joker.

812
00:43:59.039 --> 00:44:01.280
<v Speaker 1>And that's why this movie's not called the Joker. That's

813
00:44:01.280 --> 00:44:04.719
<v Speaker 1>why this movie is just called Joker because, like you

814
00:44:04.800 --> 00:44:07.519
<v Speaker 1>mentioned to me yesterday, this guy is not your joker.

815
00:44:07.920 --> 00:44:11.159
<v Speaker 1>He's not my joker, he's not anybody's joker. He's just

816
00:44:11.199 --> 00:44:15.639
<v Speaker 1>a guy, a really mentally unwell human being who uses

817
00:44:15.880 --> 00:44:21.440
<v Speaker 1>the auspices of a Joker esque character to make himself

818
00:44:21.480 --> 00:44:25.519
<v Speaker 1>feel less downtrodden and small than he inherently does because

819
00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:29.320
<v Speaker 1>the system has, by design or by negligence pushed down

820
00:44:29.360 --> 00:44:31.480
<v Speaker 1>on him his entire life, and he's been failed by

821
00:44:31.519 --> 00:44:34.719
<v Speaker 1>the system at every turn. That's not the Joker we

822
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:39.119
<v Speaker 1>see again, effectively the Joker throughout this entire movie. Right

823
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:43.679
<v Speaker 1>He's there in the movie in every scene, watching Arthur Fleck,

824
00:44:43.760 --> 00:44:46.679
<v Speaker 1>and then he gives a pretty harrowing scene at the

825
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:49.039
<v Speaker 1>end of the movie because it's pretty obvious what's about

826
00:44:49.079 --> 00:44:53.159
<v Speaker 1>to happen, but that the actor who's giving the performance

827
00:44:53.199 --> 00:44:54.960
<v Speaker 1>at the end of the film and throughout the movie

828
00:44:55.039 --> 00:45:00.360
<v Speaker 1>as the unnamed inmate cour Connor's story, is just playing

829
00:45:00.599 --> 00:45:03.960
<v Speaker 1>a joker. I think it's interesting that he's throughout the

830
00:45:04.000 --> 00:45:08.159
<v Speaker 1>movie watching everything that he is doing because it speaks

831
00:45:08.159 --> 00:45:11.119
<v Speaker 1>to this idea of this guy's so pathetic. All he's

832
00:45:11.159 --> 00:45:14.079
<v Speaker 1>doing is worried about his outward persona and the way

833
00:45:14.119 --> 00:45:17.239
<v Speaker 1>the world views him and the real Joker wouldn't care.

834
00:45:17.960 --> 00:45:19.960
<v Speaker 1>The real Joker is so insane and this is my

835
00:45:20.159 --> 00:45:21.800
<v Speaker 1>ultimate read at the end of the movie, right, the

836
00:45:21.840 --> 00:45:25.000
<v Speaker 1>real Joker is so insane that he looks at this

837
00:45:25.079 --> 00:45:28.840
<v Speaker 1>guy and goes, you're taking something that could be actually

838
00:45:29.000 --> 00:45:32.639
<v Speaker 1>used for evil, and you're just pissing it away. Like

839
00:45:33.840 --> 00:45:36.320
<v Speaker 1>why would I let you piss it away? I'll kill

840
00:45:36.360 --> 00:45:39.159
<v Speaker 1>you and then I'll be known, and then someone will

841
00:45:39.159 --> 00:45:41.960
<v Speaker 1>come save me from prison, because how does the king?

842
00:45:42.320 --> 00:45:44.480
<v Speaker 1>What happens to the king? Right, either the king steps

843
00:45:44.519 --> 00:45:47.000
<v Speaker 1>down or the king gets slain, and in this movie

844
00:45:47.079 --> 00:45:50.360
<v Speaker 1>you have him murdering him, which will undoubtedly get out

845
00:45:50.400 --> 00:45:53.719
<v Speaker 1>to the world because look, Arthur gets saved from prison.

846
00:45:54.119 --> 00:45:58.679
<v Speaker 1>Even after he rejects the persona of Joker. He rejects

847
00:45:58.679 --> 00:46:00.760
<v Speaker 1>it in front of the court, says he's not the

848
00:46:00.840 --> 00:46:04.000
<v Speaker 1>Joker takes responsibility for the murders of everybody, which the

849
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:07.199
<v Speaker 1>Joker would never do, at least not the way he

850
00:46:07.239 --> 00:46:11.199
<v Speaker 1>does wistfully and sadly. And the Joker, given the opportunity

851
00:46:11.199 --> 00:46:13.400
<v Speaker 1>at the end of the movie, would sit and parrang

852
00:46:13.719 --> 00:46:16.199
<v Speaker 1>the jury. He wouldn't just sit there and go I'm

853
00:46:16.440 --> 00:46:19.320
<v Speaker 1>sad and pathetic. And so the character at the end

854
00:46:19.320 --> 00:46:21.480
<v Speaker 1>of the movie, clearly knows that he sees what happens.

855
00:46:21.880 --> 00:46:25.079
<v Speaker 1>And I like that because the actual Joker is fucking insane,

856
00:46:25.079 --> 00:46:27.480
<v Speaker 1>that's the point. And the actual Joker isn't sad that

857
00:46:27.559 --> 00:46:30.079
<v Speaker 1>he's insane, And that's the problem with this guy. He's

858
00:46:30.079 --> 00:46:32.880
<v Speaker 1>sad that he's insane. The real Joker doesn't give a shit.

859
00:46:33.519 --> 00:46:36.599
<v Speaker 1>And I guess I don't know Todd Phillips for it

860
00:46:36.719 --> 00:46:38.760
<v Speaker 1>was four hundred million dollars worth it to make two

861
00:46:38.800 --> 00:46:43.679
<v Speaker 1>trolley ass movies. I wonder because it's a troll job, right.

862
00:46:43.760 --> 00:46:46.239
<v Speaker 1>The way this movie ends is actually trolly.

863
00:46:46.719 --> 00:46:49.079
<v Speaker 2>Well, and it's even like one of those when he

864
00:46:49.199 --> 00:46:51.360
<v Speaker 2>comes in and says, Hey, there's somebody here to see you,

865
00:46:51.519 --> 00:46:53.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, is there really? Or was this just his

866
00:46:53.880 --> 00:46:57.800
<v Speaker 2>plan the whole time to get him away?

867
00:46:58.119 --> 00:47:00.400
<v Speaker 1>You know? But I like that he murdered him at

868
00:47:00.400 --> 00:47:02.639
<v Speaker 1>the end of the movie and he gives the monologue

869
00:47:02.679 --> 00:47:06.239
<v Speaker 1>of I saw this sad, pathetic clown sitting there, and

870
00:47:06.239 --> 00:47:08.159
<v Speaker 1>I'll get you what you've deserved. And I like that

871
00:47:08.320 --> 00:47:11.239
<v Speaker 1>line shows up three or four times throughout the movie.

872
00:47:11.239 --> 00:47:15.320
<v Speaker 1>That's another reoccurring theme, the motif of getting what you deserve,

873
00:47:15.760 --> 00:47:19.079
<v Speaker 1>because Murray supposedly got what he deserved, and then Joker

874
00:47:19.119 --> 00:47:21.920
<v Speaker 1>gets what he deserves. Theoretically he gets the death penalty,

875
00:47:22.480 --> 00:47:24.519
<v Speaker 1>and then he gets what he deserves. He just gets

876
00:47:24.599 --> 00:47:27.320
<v Speaker 1>murdered ahead of time. And he doesn't care, right, I mean,

877
00:47:27.519 --> 00:47:30.079
<v Speaker 1>he doesn't care that he's going to die. He says

878
00:47:30.119 --> 00:47:32.679
<v Speaker 1>that throughout the movie. You know, he claims early on

879
00:47:33.280 --> 00:47:35.639
<v Speaker 1>that was me and I wanted to die, but I

880
00:47:35.679 --> 00:47:37.760
<v Speaker 1>don't want to die anymore because I have somebody to

881
00:47:37.800 --> 00:47:39.920
<v Speaker 1>live for. And then when it turns out that, just

882
00:47:40.039 --> 00:47:42.159
<v Speaker 1>like everything else, Lady Ga Gay is just as big

883
00:47:42.159 --> 00:47:43.800
<v Speaker 1>as part of the problem as the rest of the

884
00:47:43.840 --> 00:47:46.920
<v Speaker 1>system was, I guess I want to die again again.

885
00:47:47.119 --> 00:47:49.880
<v Speaker 1>It's just most people aren't lining up to see a

886
00:47:49.920 --> 00:47:53.800
<v Speaker 1>movie like this. I get it. It's downright all the

887
00:47:53.840 --> 00:47:58.440
<v Speaker 1>way down in unpleasant movie, and it wallows in its unpleasantness.

888
00:47:58.440 --> 00:48:01.119
<v Speaker 1>But I think, for me least, if you can get

889
00:48:01.159 --> 00:48:03.880
<v Speaker 1>down with a movie that just wants to sit on

890
00:48:03.920 --> 00:48:06.960
<v Speaker 1>the muck of its own making and splash around in it,

891
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:10.280
<v Speaker 1>I think you could do a lot better than this movie.

892
00:48:10.559 --> 00:48:12.559
<v Speaker 1>But to your point, I don't think you can do

893
00:48:12.599 --> 00:48:17.199
<v Speaker 1>as odd as a jutebox musical superhero movie based on.

894
00:48:17.639 --> 00:48:22.079
<v Speaker 1>Ostensibly the most famous villain of all time. DC's number

895
00:48:22.119 --> 00:48:25.760
<v Speaker 1>one villain period is the Joker. There's nobody that even

896
00:48:25.760 --> 00:48:28.679
<v Speaker 1>comes close because Batman is the number one DC hero,

897
00:48:28.840 --> 00:48:31.400
<v Speaker 1>So who's his number one villain? It's the Joker. The

898
00:48:31.480 --> 00:48:34.119
<v Speaker 1>Joker is the only character to win an Academy Award twice,

899
00:48:34.920 --> 00:48:36.800
<v Speaker 1>and I don't think any superhero movie is ever gonna

900
00:48:36.800 --> 00:48:38.880
<v Speaker 1>win another Academy Award at this point, let alone the

901
00:48:38.920 --> 00:48:43.400
<v Speaker 1>same character two times portrayed differently by two different people

902
00:48:43.519 --> 00:48:47.280
<v Speaker 1>with very different takes on the character. So where does

903
00:48:47.320 --> 00:48:50.519
<v Speaker 1>this version of Joker line up for you? Or is

904
00:48:50.559 --> 00:48:53.039
<v Speaker 1>this even a conversation to have because he's technically not

905
00:48:53.079 --> 00:48:54.119
<v Speaker 1>the Joker anyways.

906
00:48:54.519 --> 00:48:58.599
<v Speaker 2>That's tough. That's a really tough thing. And the toughest

907
00:48:58.599 --> 00:49:03.760
<v Speaker 2>part about Jared Leto's Joeker it feels like most of

908
00:49:03.800 --> 00:49:07.320
<v Speaker 2>his performance was on the cutting room floor. So I

909
00:49:07.360 --> 00:49:09.639
<v Speaker 2>don't know if we'll ever get that different cut of

910
00:49:09.760 --> 00:49:14.719
<v Speaker 2>David Ayer's Suicide Squad. But I really can't judge that

911
00:49:14.800 --> 00:49:17.760
<v Speaker 2>performance because I just feel like there's not enough there.

912
00:49:19.400 --> 00:49:23.079
<v Speaker 2>I know that movie had a real vendetta against helicopters.

913
00:49:23.159 --> 00:49:26.239
<v Speaker 2>You can never take a helicopter in the Suicide Squad

914
00:49:26.280 --> 00:49:28.880
<v Speaker 2>World because it will always blow up or get shot

915
00:49:28.920 --> 00:49:29.559
<v Speaker 2>out of the sky.

916
00:49:31.360 --> 00:49:32.119
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I don't know.

917
00:49:32.159 --> 00:49:36.719
<v Speaker 2>I'm not big on ranking things, but yeah, just as

918
00:49:36.760 --> 00:49:42.880
<v Speaker 2>far as the unpleasantness of these characters, they're both they're

919
00:49:42.920 --> 00:49:46.719
<v Speaker 2>pretty low. I mean, be me good Caesar Romero or

920
00:49:46.880 --> 00:49:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Jack Nicholson or of course the King Keith Ledger. I'm

921
00:49:52.039 --> 00:49:55.760
<v Speaker 2>curious where they're going to go with the Batman and

922
00:49:56.159 --> 00:49:59.199
<v Speaker 2>that version of Joker, because it sounds like that's who

923
00:49:59.599 --> 00:50:01.559
<v Speaker 2>Riddler was talking to you at the very end of

924
00:50:01.599 --> 00:50:02.280
<v Speaker 2>that movie.

925
00:50:02.960 --> 00:50:04.920
<v Speaker 1>Did you see the clip from that movie with Barry

926
00:50:05.000 --> 00:50:10.639
<v Speaker 1>Keowhen as Joker? My lord, holy fuck, it's someone watched

927
00:50:10.719 --> 00:50:14.519
<v Speaker 1>and by someone we know, our dear friend, Richard Adam's friend,

928
00:50:14.599 --> 00:50:17.920
<v Speaker 1>or I guess matt Reeves' is college friend Richard Adam,

929
00:50:18.360 --> 00:50:21.639
<v Speaker 1>our dear friend. Yeah, that scene is what it would

930
00:50:21.639 --> 00:50:23.840
<v Speaker 1>look like if Matt Reeves directed Silence of the Lambs,

931
00:50:23.840 --> 00:50:27.760
<v Speaker 1>because it's pretty much the Anthony Hopkins Clarice's scene, but

932
00:50:27.920 --> 00:50:32.119
<v Speaker 1>with Joker and Batman in their respective spots. As it's great,

933
00:50:32.280 --> 00:50:34.519
<v Speaker 1>but yeah, that's who he's talking to, right, That's who

934
00:50:34.559 --> 00:50:38.360
<v Speaker 1>he's conversing with, is that character? I'm with you I'm

935
00:50:38.360 --> 00:50:41.519
<v Speaker 1>more interested in that version of Joker period, but also

936
00:50:41.559 --> 00:50:44.840
<v Speaker 1>Barry Keohen's an amazing actor. Joaquin Phoenix is an amazing actor.

937
00:50:44.880 --> 00:50:47.679
<v Speaker 1>I may not vibe with all the stuff that he does.

938
00:50:47.920 --> 00:50:50.880
<v Speaker 1>He makes some interesting choices, that's for sure. I said

939
00:50:50.880 --> 00:50:52.840
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't say that, but I know some people might.

940
00:50:53.559 --> 00:50:57.840
<v Speaker 1>I just think that Joaquin Phoenix's choices sometimes are not

941
00:50:58.000 --> 00:51:00.280
<v Speaker 1>ones that a lot of people really like. I think

942
00:51:00.280 --> 00:51:03.760
<v Speaker 1>that sometimes he just makes interesting choices, and sometimes those

943
00:51:03.840 --> 00:51:06.320
<v Speaker 1>roles don't work. I'm still here as one of those

944
00:51:06.320 --> 00:51:09.639
<v Speaker 1>things where's just like, maybe not don't do that, but

945
00:51:09.679 --> 00:51:11.320
<v Speaker 1>then you get something like this in the first movie

946
00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:15.159
<v Speaker 1>was so well regarded. He's building that positive cred with

947
00:51:15.440 --> 00:51:17.760
<v Speaker 1>random people who have never probably even seen a Joaquin

948
00:51:17.800 --> 00:51:20.679
<v Speaker 1>Phoenix movie before. Frankly, because a lot of the stuff

949
00:51:20.719 --> 00:51:23.360
<v Speaker 1>that he does is not necessarily mainstream either.

950
00:51:24.360 --> 00:51:26.519
<v Speaker 2>I think he takes a lot of good chances, and

951
00:51:26.559 --> 00:51:30.159
<v Speaker 2>I'm very glad that he does what he does. I

952
00:51:30.159 --> 00:51:33.960
<v Speaker 2>don't necessarily enjoy it all the time, but more power

953
00:51:34.000 --> 00:51:34.840
<v Speaker 2>to him for doing it.

954
00:51:35.199 --> 00:51:37.320
<v Speaker 1>I think he's an actor with a capital A in

955
00:51:37.360 --> 00:51:39.559
<v Speaker 1>a lot of ways. I think he's probably in the

956
00:51:39.599 --> 00:51:41.639
<v Speaker 1>same and I wouldn't say he's in the same tier

957
00:51:41.679 --> 00:51:43.599
<v Speaker 1>as Daniel da Lewis, but I think he's been that

958
00:51:43.639 --> 00:51:47.800
<v Speaker 1>conversation about those kinds of method actors who probably are

959
00:51:48.519 --> 00:51:50.920
<v Speaker 1>a lot to be around, but I think it wills

960
00:51:50.960 --> 00:51:53.679
<v Speaker 1>out in what they do on screen. I do Joaquin

961
00:51:53.679 --> 00:51:56.079
<v Speaker 1>Phoenix's Joker, but I get where you're coming from in

962
00:51:56.159 --> 00:51:58.920
<v Speaker 1>terms of these versions and where his is going to

963
00:51:59.079 --> 00:52:02.760
<v Speaker 1>end up. And I think again, ultimately your mileage with

964
00:52:02.800 --> 00:52:05.519
<v Speaker 1>this movie is going to vary, especially this one, because

965
00:52:06.000 --> 00:52:08.679
<v Speaker 1>if you like that first movie, this movie does feel

966
00:52:08.679 --> 00:52:10.559
<v Speaker 1>like a fuck you to you if you like the

967
00:52:10.559 --> 00:52:13.079
<v Speaker 1>first movie. But if you can understand that the first

968
00:52:13.119 --> 00:52:15.559
<v Speaker 1>movie's job was not to elevate this guy and make

969
00:52:15.639 --> 00:52:18.679
<v Speaker 1>him a hero. It was more to just show there

970
00:52:18.679 --> 00:52:20.360
<v Speaker 1>are people like this in the world and the system

971
00:52:20.400 --> 00:52:24.119
<v Speaker 1>has failed them. This movie continues that conversation if you're

972
00:52:24.159 --> 00:52:27.519
<v Speaker 1>interested in having, which I understand why plenty of people

973
00:52:28.159 --> 00:52:31.480
<v Speaker 1>are not and don't care, because this is the sad,

974
00:52:31.559 --> 00:52:34.559
<v Speaker 1>cold reality of what this is like when these things happen.

975
00:52:35.119 --> 00:52:37.480
<v Speaker 1>If we watched a James Bond movie and then we

976
00:52:37.519 --> 00:52:39.840
<v Speaker 1>had to watch James Bond confront all the families of

977
00:52:39.880 --> 00:52:43.599
<v Speaker 1>the guards he killed, Nobody wants to see that. Nobody

978
00:52:43.639 --> 00:52:47.800
<v Speaker 1>wants to see Joker confronted by someone who he traumatized

979
00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:50.639
<v Speaker 1>because he murdered someone in front of them. No, that's

980
00:52:50.679 --> 00:52:52.920
<v Speaker 1>not a scene in a movie that anybody was asking for,

981
00:52:53.320 --> 00:52:55.360
<v Speaker 1>but yet here it is, and it's so well done

982
00:52:55.400 --> 00:52:58.159
<v Speaker 1>and well acted. At the standout scene in this movie. Yeah,

983
00:52:58.239 --> 00:53:01.400
<v Speaker 1>this is a strange movie that seemed almost at odds

984
00:53:01.400 --> 00:53:03.719
<v Speaker 1>with its audience and what it thinks its audience wants,

985
00:53:03.800 --> 00:53:07.880
<v Speaker 1>if it even cares. I think Todd Phillips just making

986
00:53:07.920 --> 00:53:11.039
<v Speaker 1>movies that he wants to make, whatever the fuck that means.

987
00:53:11.639 --> 00:53:13.559
<v Speaker 1>Final thoughts on Joker, Mike.

988
00:53:15.039 --> 00:53:18.199
<v Speaker 2>I wish I had liked it more. Like I said,

989
00:53:18.239 --> 00:53:20.079
<v Speaker 2>I was kind of lying and wait for this one.

990
00:53:20.320 --> 00:53:23.079
<v Speaker 2>I don't feel that I was bashing this too much.

991
00:53:24.719 --> 00:53:27.519
<v Speaker 2>It is going to be interesting to read more about

992
00:53:27.599 --> 00:53:31.719
<v Speaker 2>this as we move forward, and I'm curious what kind

993
00:53:31.760 --> 00:53:34.280
<v Speaker 2>of takes people are going to have about it, because

994
00:53:34.519 --> 00:53:36.679
<v Speaker 2>and I don't mean like hot takes, but I mean

995
00:53:36.760 --> 00:53:40.400
<v Speaker 2>like actual like dissection of this and what are some

996
00:53:40.440 --> 00:53:42.519
<v Speaker 2>of these meanings. You know, there's a lot of a

997
00:53:42.559 --> 00:53:45.840
<v Speaker 2>lot of stuff going on in this movie, and I

998
00:53:45.880 --> 00:53:49.360
<v Speaker 2>didn't enjoy it, but other people may What about you, Chris.

999
00:53:49.760 --> 00:53:52.480
<v Speaker 1>I can completely understand where you're coming from, and I

1000
00:53:52.519 --> 00:53:55.480
<v Speaker 1>think that your opinion was the one that more people

1001
00:53:55.519 --> 00:53:58.000
<v Speaker 1>than not are feeling, is that this movie is weird

1002
00:53:58.159 --> 00:54:01.840
<v Speaker 1>and doesn't work necessarily and is just all over the place,

1003
00:54:02.559 --> 00:54:05.880
<v Speaker 1>spins its wheels and waste its time and our time

1004
00:54:05.920 --> 00:54:09.320
<v Speaker 1>and everybody's time collectively. I know that my opinion is

1005
00:54:10.199 --> 00:54:12.800
<v Speaker 1>the hot take here or the minority, And I wonder

1006
00:54:13.320 --> 00:54:14.800
<v Speaker 1>if in the long run, if there will be a

1007
00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:17.599
<v Speaker 1>different version or deleted scenes or whatever will come out

1008
00:54:17.679 --> 00:54:20.840
<v Speaker 1>that'll help pad the movie out, make it make more sense,

1009
00:54:20.920 --> 00:54:23.559
<v Speaker 1>or make certain thematic choices make more sense. But like

1010
00:54:23.599 --> 00:54:26.440
<v Speaker 1>you said, there is a lot going on. This movie

1011
00:54:26.480 --> 00:54:29.079
<v Speaker 1>has a lot of things that it's trying to do,

1012
00:54:29.199 --> 00:54:32.119
<v Speaker 1>things that it's trying to say. And I look forward

1013
00:54:32.159 --> 00:54:34.519
<v Speaker 1>to where this movie goes with its audience, because right

1014
00:54:34.559 --> 00:54:36.639
<v Speaker 1>now I don't think it's founded, but I think ultimately

1015
00:54:36.679 --> 00:54:38.679
<v Speaker 1>it will find an audience. It will find people that

1016
00:54:38.880 --> 00:54:41.400
<v Speaker 1>like it more, people will find it that were turned

1017
00:54:41.400 --> 00:54:43.639
<v Speaker 1>off by the idea of it initially but end up

1018
00:54:43.679 --> 00:54:46.599
<v Speaker 1>watching it and enjoying it. And who knows where the

1019
00:54:46.639 --> 00:54:48.960
<v Speaker 1>life of this movie goes. Because this movie quote is

1020
00:54:49.000 --> 00:54:54.559
<v Speaker 1>an unmitigated disaster according to one WB exaction, which boy,

1021
00:54:55.119 --> 00:54:57.440
<v Speaker 1>did you watch Suicide Squad because at least this is

1022
00:54:57.480 --> 00:55:00.639
<v Speaker 1>a movie. At least this has a plug and no

1023
00:55:00.760 --> 00:55:04.320
<v Speaker 1>blue lasers in the sky. God, But yeah, it's a

1024
00:55:04.400 --> 00:55:07.760
<v Speaker 1>DC thing. It sure is. On that note, Mike, where

1025
00:55:07.800 --> 00:55:09.280
<v Speaker 1>can people find you and the things that you work

1026
00:55:09.320 --> 00:55:11.440
<v Speaker 1>on when we're not doing some of these crossover episodes

1027
00:55:11.480 --> 00:55:12.239
<v Speaker 1>on new movies.

1028
00:55:13.079 --> 00:55:16.000
<v Speaker 2>Everything that I do is available at weirdermainmedia dot com,

1029
00:55:16.039 --> 00:55:18.920
<v Speaker 2>including the projection Booth and all of the other fun

1030
00:55:18.960 --> 00:55:19.960
<v Speaker 2>things that we work on.

1031
00:55:20.079 --> 00:55:22.440
<v Speaker 1>How about you, Chris can find everything I work on

1032
00:55:22.559 --> 00:55:25.440
<v Speaker 1>over at a weirdingwoman media dot com, Patreon dot com.

1033
00:55:25.440 --> 00:55:28.000
<v Speaker 1>Sass Culturecast or Projection Booth gets you access to ten

1034
00:55:28.039 --> 00:55:30.719
<v Speaker 1>dollars or more a month ranking on Bond where we

1035
00:55:30.760 --> 00:55:33.400
<v Speaker 1>talk about James Bond with our friend Richard Adam of

1036
00:55:33.440 --> 00:55:35.480
<v Speaker 1>Richard Adams Pair a normal bookshelf. So that's where you

1037
00:55:35.480 --> 00:55:38.719
<v Speaker 1>can go to help financially. Otherwise, rate and review either

1038
00:55:38.760 --> 00:55:42.480
<v Speaker 1>the the projection Booth or the culture cast on iTunes.

1039
00:55:42.559 --> 00:55:45.519
<v Speaker 1>That's where it helps us the most. Nowhere else helps

1040
00:55:45.559 --> 00:55:47.880
<v Speaker 1>as much as iTunes. So Mike, thank you so much

1041
00:55:47.920 --> 00:55:50.280
<v Speaker 1>for inviting me to do this. I don't know if

1042
00:55:50.280 --> 00:55:51.239
<v Speaker 1>I would have seen the movie.

1043
00:55:51.119 --> 00:55:54.679
<v Speaker 2>Otherwise, so I don't think I would have this kind

1044
00:55:54.679 --> 00:55:55.599
<v Speaker 2>of forced me to do it.

1045
00:55:56.119 --> 00:55:57.719
<v Speaker 1>And as always, I guess we'll catch on the next

1046
00:55:57.760 --> 00:55:59.840
<v Speaker 1>episode of either The Culture Cast or The Projection Booth.

1047
00:56:01.199 --> 00:56:09.360
<v Speaker 3>That's life. That's what all the people say. You're riding

1048
00:56:09.559 --> 00:56:14.880
<v Speaker 3>high in April, shut down in May. But I know

1049
00:56:15.159 --> 00:56:22.199
<v Speaker 3>I'm gonna change that tune when I'm back on top,

1050
00:56:22.920 --> 00:56:24.400
<v Speaker 3>back on top in June.

1051
00:56:26.000 --> 00:56:27.440
<v Speaker 4>I said, that's life.

1052
00:56:28.360 --> 00:56:32.320
<v Speaker 1>And as funny as it may.

1053
00:56:32.280 --> 00:56:40.920
<v Speaker 3>Seem, some people get their kicks stopping on a dream.

1054
00:56:40.960 --> 00:56:43.840
<v Speaker 3>But I don't let it, let it get me down,

1055
00:56:46.480 --> 00:56:52.639
<v Speaker 3>because this fine old world, it keeps spinning around. I've

1056
00:56:52.679 --> 00:56:57.679
<v Speaker 3>been a puppet, a paper, a pirate, a poet, upon

1057
00:56:57.960 --> 00:57:03.199
<v Speaker 3>at a king. I've been and down, and over and out,

1058
00:57:03.480 --> 00:57:09.199
<v Speaker 3>and I know one thing. Each time am I find myself.

1059
00:57:09.960 --> 00:57:13.440
<v Speaker 4>Flat on my face, I picked.

1060
00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:21.079
<v Speaker 3>Myself up and get back in the raid. That's life,

1061
00:57:21.519 --> 00:57:22.159
<v Speaker 3>I tell you.

1062
00:57:22.840 --> 00:57:23.960
<v Speaker 1>I can't deny it.

1063
00:57:26.280 --> 00:57:30.719
<v Speaker 3>I thought of quitting baby, but my heart just ain't

1064
00:57:30.719 --> 00:57:34.119
<v Speaker 3>gonna buy it. And if I didn't think it was

1065
00:57:34.199 --> 00:57:39.800
<v Speaker 3>worth one single tive, I'd jump right on a big

1066
00:57:39.840 --> 00:57:41.960
<v Speaker 3>bird and then I'd fly.

1067
00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:47.719
<v Speaker 4>I've been a puffet, a pauper, a pirate, and a

1068
00:57:47.760 --> 00:57:52.920
<v Speaker 4>poet upon and a king. I've been up and down

1069
00:57:53.079 --> 00:57:56.400
<v Speaker 4>and over and out, and I know one thing.

1070
00:57:57.559 --> 00:58:02.119
<v Speaker 3>Each time am I find myself out flame, flat on

1071
00:58:02.280 --> 00:58:02.840
<v Speaker 3>my face.

1072
00:58:03.880 --> 00:58:06.480
<v Speaker 1>I just picked myself up.

1073
00:58:06.639 --> 00:58:09.639
<v Speaker 4>And keep back in the race.

1074
00:58:10.400 --> 00:58:16.800
<v Speaker 1>That's life. That's life. And I care the knife.

1075
00:58:17.679 --> 00:58:21.440
<v Speaker 3>Many times I thought I'd cutting out, but my heart

1076
00:58:21.480 --> 00:58:22.199
<v Speaker 3>won't fire it.

1077
00:58:23.400 --> 00:58:24.400
<v Speaker 1>But if there's.

1078
00:58:24.239 --> 00:58:33.440
<v Speaker 3>Nothing shaken, calmness here July, I'm gonna roll myself up

1079
00:58:34.519 --> 00:58:48.360
<v Speaker 3>in a big ball. My my