1
00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,759
Speaker 1: The countdown is on to fight time. This is Big

2
00:00:08,839 --> 00:00:09,640
Fight Weekend.

3
00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:15,519
Speaker 2: Now here is your host, DJ Leaves. Well, we are

4
00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:19,320
approaching the end of twenty to twenty four, but no, no,

5
00:00:19,399 --> 00:00:22,359
we're not done yet here on the podcast feed, still

6
00:00:22,559 --> 00:00:26,879
much to go over, including eventually off of this weekend,

7
00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:30,079
a world title fight in Japan. We've gotten one of

8
00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:34,159
the more prominent referees the last decade plus really the

9
00:00:34,240 --> 00:00:38,880
last twenty twenty five years in United States boxing, Jack Riche.

10
00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,640
You'll hear from him right here on this pod. Some news,

11
00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,560
some nostalgia. It is the big Fight weekend preview. We

12
00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,200
come off the Christmas holiday. We also say Happy Honikah

13
00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:51,840
Festivus to the rest of us as well to Dan Rayfield,

14
00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,920
who is a board here on the pod.

15
00:00:55,920 --> 00:00:58,280
Speaker 1: This is the final weekend of the calendar year. You

16
00:00:58,320 --> 00:00:58,799
don't have to.

17
00:00:58,719 --> 00:01:02,920
Speaker 2: Put up with meetle next year after this weekend. I'm

18
00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:05,239
just saying here on the show, how are things.

19
00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,200
Speaker 3: Things are good. It's a little slow, but we're good

20
00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:10,239
with it. I'm excited. I'm we're gonna talk about that

21
00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:13,200
Japanese review. I'll be very excited about that. We hear

22
00:01:13,239 --> 00:01:16,159
from Jack Reese, one of the great referees of all time.

23
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:18,840
We got plenty to discuss. Despite yeah, I that there's

24
00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:20,879
not a lot of going on in the ring in

25
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:22,000
the net a little bit.

26
00:01:22,239 --> 00:01:23,040
Speaker 1: By the way, is it.

27
00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:25,319
Speaker 2: And to everybody, make sure your rate us, review us.

28
00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:27,359
Some of you have been doing that here in December.

29
00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,680
We'll take some more here at the end of the

30
00:01:29,719 --> 00:01:32,640
calendar year, at the end of this month, because they

31
00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,959
always help with the algorithms there on Apple, Spreaker, Spotify.

32
00:01:36,079 --> 00:01:38,680
If you enjoy the content, as we're here doing this

33
00:01:38,719 --> 00:01:41,359
twice every weekend, I continue to say, we do this

34
00:01:41,439 --> 00:01:45,400
with pride. I'm not just being cocky, arrogant whatever. You

35
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,319
don't have any other podcast feed that's got a preview

36
00:01:48,400 --> 00:01:52,519
and a recap religiously over and over and over again

37
00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:56,640
every weekend. If you enjoy it, help us out, peeps, savages,

38
00:01:56,959 --> 00:01:59,400
rate us in review us. The five star reviews do help.

39
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,840
If you enjoy that, say so. It is unusual that

40
00:02:03,879 --> 00:02:06,280
we really we got to the end. I understand it's

41
00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:08,879
the weekend before Christmas, but now it's also the weekend

42
00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,400
before New Year's Christmas and New Year's not following on

43
00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,599
the weekend. We don't have a prominent fight card again

44
00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,319
really in the United States. We obviously had Usik Fury

45
00:02:17,400 --> 00:02:20,439
card in Saudi Arabia last weekend. Now this fight card

46
00:02:20,479 --> 00:02:24,400
is in Japan on New Year's Eve. I just find

47
00:02:24,439 --> 00:02:27,240
that interesting quick comment from you that nobody took advantage,

48
00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,639
none of the promoters, nobody took advantage of maybe this

49
00:02:30,240 --> 00:02:31,360
last week or this week.

50
00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:33,599
Speaker 3: I mean, there's usually, at least an America anyway, there's

51
00:02:33,719 --> 00:02:36,599
almost never fights on this weekend or the New Year's

52
00:02:36,599 --> 00:02:40,280
weekend in terms of what would have been Remember on

53
00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:42,840
Christmas Eve, December twenty fourth, we were supposed to have

54
00:02:43,360 --> 00:02:45,759
another major card in Japan that was headlined by in

55
00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,960
a way against Goodman, but there was an injury, so

56
00:02:48,039 --> 00:02:50,960
that fight was backed up until the end of January.

57
00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,319
And in Japan typically, and this has been their tradition

58
00:02:54,439 --> 00:02:57,039
for a very long time. Not only is there usually

59
00:02:57,039 --> 00:02:58,840
like a title fight card like we're going to talk

60
00:02:58,840 --> 00:03:02,479
about with the rematch being Fernando Martinez and Kazuto Ioka,

61
00:03:02,599 --> 00:03:05,840
there's usually multiple world title fights and oftentimes multiple world

62
00:03:05,879 --> 00:03:08,520
title cards for whatever the reasons are that did not

63
00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:11,080
take place this year. But that's more of an anomaly

64
00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:12,719
because I mean there have been years where there's been

65
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,080
over the span of several days leading into New Year's

66
00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,680
been three four cars with you know, five six, seven

67
00:03:18,719 --> 00:03:21,159
world title fights, but not this year. But we got

68
00:03:21,199 --> 00:03:22,719
a good one nonetheless.

69
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:23,719
Speaker 2: All right, So we'll get into that in a couple

70
00:03:23,759 --> 00:03:27,199
of moments, and again we have some some fight news

71
00:03:27,319 --> 00:03:31,840
as well here to go over, including well, im just

72
00:03:31,879 --> 00:03:34,960
teasing here, Wait a minute, Gervonte Davis is now saying

73
00:03:34,960 --> 00:03:39,280
that his fight is off. Stay tuned, stay tuned on

74
00:03:39,319 --> 00:03:42,400
the pod. As we released this Thursday night into Friday.

75
00:03:42,800 --> 00:03:46,159
So as you mentioned, it is all the way to Tuesday,

76
00:03:46,199 --> 00:03:48,599
and we will have a bet Us show by the way,

77
00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:52,520
on Friday handicapping this Fernando Martinez title defense for the

78
00:03:52,599 --> 00:03:57,400
WBA Junior Benamweight Championship against kas Ioka of Japan. That

79
00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,439
is Tuesday morning US time, and it is Tuesday night

80
00:04:01,479 --> 00:04:05,800
obviously primetime in Japan. And these guys just fought on

81
00:04:06,039 --> 00:04:09,680
in July and had a very entertaining fight that Martinez

82
00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:12,960
won a quick rematch by present day boxing standards, usually

83
00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:16,360
these things take like eighteen months or two years to happen. Again, No, no,

84
00:04:16,399 --> 00:04:19,000
not the case here with this, and we're glad for that.

85
00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:21,720
Speaker 3: I mean The disappointing part about the rematch is the

86
00:04:21,759 --> 00:04:24,079
fact that, as far as I know, unless something dramatically

87
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:26,399
changes in the next few days, there is no official

88
00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,839
United States stream of the fight or broadcast of the fight.

89
00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:32,040
But that doesn't mean it's not worth discussing because when

90
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,600
they fought the first fight, as you mentioned back in July,

91
00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,759
they put on a bona fide fight of the air contender.

92
00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:39,319
I don't think it's going to be picked by most

93
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,680
people as the actual winner, but it absolutely one belongs

94
00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:46,240
on those various lists, And if they're not on those lists,

95
00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:48,519
that just tells me that the folks that are compiling

96
00:04:48,519 --> 00:04:51,120
those lists didn't take the time to actually watch the fight,

97
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:53,920
which is readily available on YouTube. But they met back

98
00:04:53,959 --> 00:04:57,800
in July to unify the IBF and the WBA titles

99
00:04:57,959 --> 00:05:00,399
in the Junior bandamweight division. They put an hour actually

100
00:05:00,639 --> 00:05:04,079
hillacious fight, just an all action affair from start to finish.

101
00:05:04,399 --> 00:05:04,639
Speaker 4: Uh.

102
00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,120
Speaker 3: Martinez did win the fight one seventeen one eleven, one sixteen,

103
00:05:08,199 --> 00:05:10,800
one to twelve. And then, as we discussed numerous times TJ,

104
00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,319
there's always that wacky out liar score that just you'd

105
00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:15,639
want to just shoot yourself one of the judges actually

106
00:05:15,639 --> 00:05:17,560
had the audacity to score this fight one twenty to

107
00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:20,639
one eight, which is a shutout, which is freaking preposterous.

108
00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:24,800
Speaker 2: Did's the Japanese guy in Japan? I've scored twelve nothing

109
00:05:24,959 --> 00:05:25,720
for Martinez?

110
00:05:25,800 --> 00:05:29,000
Speaker 3: Yes, so I mean sixteen twelve seventeen eleven. That was

111
00:05:29,079 --> 00:05:31,920
more realistic than just a clean sweep. But nonetheless, it

112
00:05:31,959 --> 00:05:34,480
was such a great fight that they're doing it again.

113
00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:39,560
So because Martinez won the fight and unified the two belts. Uh,

114
00:05:39,639 --> 00:05:42,399
the IBF did IBF things, and they ordered a mandatory,

115
00:05:42,879 --> 00:05:46,360
and uh, Martinez was a businessman about it. He was like,

116
00:05:46,439 --> 00:05:48,800
I'm getting a great offer to return to Japan to

117
00:05:48,879 --> 00:05:51,279
fight Ioka, who's been a top fighter for a very

118
00:05:51,279 --> 00:05:53,160
long time. And by the way, when I tell you

119
00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,800
they combined in the first fight to land six hundred

120
00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:00,800
more almost six hundred and fifty punches and combine to

121
00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:06,439
throw two thousand plus punches, it was a ridiculous, fast

122
00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:09,319
paced fight. But anyway, so anyway, they ordered the rematch,

123
00:06:09,399 --> 00:06:12,240
and he decided not to go forward with his mandatory

124
00:06:12,240 --> 00:06:14,360
of the IBF because he had an offer for a

125
00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,120
lot more money of a rematch with Ioka to go

126
00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:19,319
back to Japan, so we took the offer for the rematch,

127
00:06:19,519 --> 00:06:23,800
gave up the IBF title, which actually the organization tried

128
00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,399
to fill the vacancy in a fight that was just

129
00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,199
about a week or so less than a week ago,

130
00:06:28,399 --> 00:06:30,439
and the two guys ended up fighting to a draw,

131
00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,319
so that title is still vacant. Meanwhile, La Martinez Niker

132
00:06:34,319 --> 00:06:37,439
will get their business back together on New Year's Eve

133
00:06:37,439 --> 00:06:40,480
for the one big fight card in Japan on the

134
00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:43,839
holiday weekend. So terrific fight. I hope that I'm going

135
00:06:43,879 --> 00:06:45,480
to look for a live stream. I was certainly going

136
00:06:45,560 --> 00:06:47,600
to look forward on YouTube and the immediacy after the

137
00:06:47,600 --> 00:06:50,120
fight well worth for anybody that didn't see the first

138
00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:52,839
fight to go check it out, Absolutely worth it. I

139
00:06:52,959 --> 00:06:54,000
can't wait for the rematch.

140
00:06:54,199 --> 00:06:57,000
Speaker 2: And again you mentioned end of the year fights. The

141
00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,839
end of twenty twenty two was the fight with Joshua Franco,

142
00:07:00,720 --> 00:07:04,199
the brother of Jesse Bam Rodriguez, and I thought Franco

143
00:07:04,319 --> 00:07:07,120
won that fight in watching that fight, he did not

144
00:07:07,199 --> 00:07:07,959
get the decision.

145
00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:08,759
Speaker 1: It was a draw.

146
00:07:09,199 --> 00:07:11,959
Speaker 2: Then they had the rematch in the summer of twenty

147
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,079
three and that's where Franco was having weight problems and

148
00:07:16,959 --> 00:07:19,600
they ended up moving forward with the title fight despite

149
00:07:19,639 --> 00:07:24,800
him being several pounds overweight, and Ioka beat him. Ioka

150
00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:28,160
then defended one more time by knockout before Martinez upset him.

151
00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:29,879
So that's kind of the backdrop. And again this is

152
00:07:29,959 --> 00:07:33,160
all the way to Tuesday that that will be happening.

153
00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:35,079
But we're a preview podcast, so we're giving you plenty

154
00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,800
of time to try to locate it. Do we have,

155
00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:40,639
even on the ray Field meter, like a five percent

156
00:07:40,759 --> 00:07:43,680
chance that somebody may pick this up and stream it,

157
00:07:43,759 --> 00:07:46,319
or do you think at this stage closet Christmas it's

158
00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:49,160
likely not happening because nobody would pay the sanctioning fee

159
00:07:49,399 --> 00:07:50,480
to televise it on one of the.

160
00:07:50,519 --> 00:07:55,160
Speaker 3: US stream Probably not. I mean ESPN plus is not

161
00:07:55,199 --> 00:07:56,720
picking it up. I mean de Zone has been known

162
00:07:56,759 --> 00:07:59,199
at times to pick things up at the last minute,

163
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:02,240
So I mean, I guess it's theoretically possible, but I

164
00:08:02,399 --> 00:08:05,399
just know this. I promise somebody's going to post a

165
00:08:05,439 --> 00:08:07,079
fight on YouTube. It won't be a problem even if

166
00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:08,639
you can't see it alive. You see it like in

167
00:08:08,680 --> 00:08:09,959
the enough or so afterwards.

168
00:08:09,959 --> 00:08:11,920
Speaker 2: But Rayfield does not have to do like the old

169
00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:14,480
days and beg somebody through the regular mail to send

170
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:16,800
him a VHS copy that he sees weeks later.

171
00:08:17,040 --> 00:08:18,680
Speaker 3: Exactly, do not have to do.

172
00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:22,000
Speaker 2: That for that fight coming up on kids? They just

173
00:08:22,000 --> 00:08:24,759
don't understand, No, they have no idea. They don't understand

174
00:08:24,759 --> 00:08:26,680
what we have to what we had to deal with

175
00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,639
and do. All right, So that leads us to a guest.

176
00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,120
Before we get to the news, shall we t this up.

177
00:08:32,159 --> 00:08:35,000
You've been mentioning about Jack Reese, who is retiring after

178
00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,360
over twenty five years as a world championship referee, working

179
00:08:39,399 --> 00:08:43,840
over one hundred world title fights, including the Wilder Fury fight.

180
00:08:43,960 --> 00:08:45,960
We've been talking about this and you got the opportunity to.

181
00:08:45,960 --> 00:08:48,879
Speaker 3: Clare for him just recently the first Wilder Fury fight

182
00:08:48,919 --> 00:08:51,639
which had the famous scene in the twelfth round. Jack

183
00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,399
referreed exactly twenty five years. As a matter of fact,

184
00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,360
I'll just give one little nugget from the interview because

185
00:08:57,360 --> 00:08:58,720
I didn't know the answer this and I asked them

186
00:08:58,720 --> 00:09:02,480
about it. The last he worked was the main event

187
00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:04,559
of the READ season card in Los Angeles in August,

188
00:09:04,600 --> 00:09:07,120
when the main event was Terrence Crawford against Israel Majamov

189
00:09:07,159 --> 00:09:09,919
and Crawford won the close decision won the WBA Junior

190
00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,440
Middaway title turned out to be his last fight. I asked, Jack,

191
00:09:12,519 --> 00:09:15,080
was that your last fight? Did you know that going

192
00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,240
in or did that just the way that it worked out.

193
00:09:17,279 --> 00:09:18,799
He said that he knew that when he got in

194
00:09:18,840 --> 00:09:20,759
the ring that night it would be his last fight,

195
00:09:20,799 --> 00:09:21,919
but he hadn't told anybody.

196
00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:22,519
Speaker 1: Interesting.

197
00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:24,440
Speaker 3: You know that he wanted to just do it on

198
00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,600
his own terms. And you know, Jack, he's been a

199
00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:30,039
great refer a long time, has worked a zillion fights,

200
00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:31,759
lots of big time fights, and we talked about it,

201
00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:33,759
and he was terrific in the interview.

202
00:09:33,799 --> 00:09:34,759
Speaker 5: So people here right.

203
00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:38,759
Speaker 2: Now, without further delay, let's get to that conversation right

204
00:09:38,799 --> 00:09:42,159
now with Dan with one of the more prominent referees

205
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:44,279
in US boxing for the last quarter of century.

206
00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:46,960
Speaker 3: Well, it is my distinct pleasure to welcome to our

207
00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,480
podcast this week, Jack Reese. We're not hearing from a

208
00:09:49,519 --> 00:09:51,320
fighter this week, We're not hearing from a promoter. We're

209
00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:52,960
hearing from one of the best referees in the last

210
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:55,200
twenty five years, probably one of the best referees in

211
00:09:55,240 --> 00:10:00,080
boxing history. It is Jack Reese. Jack, you you well,

212
00:10:00,159 --> 00:10:02,919
I think some people buy surprise two weeks ago or

213
00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:05,320
early December when you announced that you're retiring. You've had

214
00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,639
a career spanning twenty five years as a referee one thousand,

215
00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,559
one hundred and fifty two professional boxing matches that according

216
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,759
to box Treck, So we're here to talk about your

217
00:10:13,759 --> 00:10:15,320
great career. Thank you very much for joining me on

218
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:15,919
the show today.

219
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:19,720
Speaker 5: Again, thanks you very much for having me. What a

220
00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:22,720
great opportunity and I appreciate it very much. You bet

221
00:10:22,759 --> 00:10:23,919
you for that great introduction.

222
00:10:24,279 --> 00:10:26,279
Speaker 3: What what I forgot to mention actually is within the

223
00:10:26,279 --> 00:10:29,559
context of that total of one hundred and fifty two

224
00:10:29,559 --> 00:10:32,039
fights is more than one hundred world championship fights. So

225
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,960
congratulations on an outstanding career and I'm glad we can

226
00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:36,960
kind of review it. This will consider this like your

227
00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:40,879
exit interview. How about that sounds great? So, first off,

228
00:10:40,919 --> 00:10:42,759
you had your what I guess was your final bout

229
00:10:42,799 --> 00:10:45,559
was in August August third in Los Angeles, and most

230
00:10:45,559 --> 00:10:47,799
people were familiar with your career know that by and

231
00:10:47,879 --> 00:10:50,240
large you work for the California State Athletic Commission, although

232
00:10:50,279 --> 00:10:53,080
you have done fights and other jurisdictions and world title

233
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:54,679
fights and other parts of the country and other parts

234
00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:58,200
of the world. But when you did that event on

235
00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:00,480
August thirty, you were the referee for the Terrence Crawford

236
00:11:00,480 --> 00:11:03,799
fight against Israel Magemov when Terrence Crawford won the WBA

237
00:11:04,039 --> 00:11:07,679
Junior Middleway title, and I actually I you know, we

238
00:11:07,799 --> 00:11:09,879
I'll let folks know. We chaded a couple of emails

239
00:11:09,879 --> 00:11:12,159
and stuff because I wrote a story about your retirement.

240
00:11:12,159 --> 00:11:14,320
I actually meant to ask you this, uh, when we

241
00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,840
were going back and forth when you refereed Terrence Crawford

242
00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,120
against Israel Majimov going into the ring then like, did

243
00:11:20,159 --> 00:11:21,600
you know this was going to be your last fight

244
00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:24,240
or had you not yet decided what you were doing

245
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:26,759
or didn't know maybe about what the upcoming schedule was

246
00:11:26,799 --> 00:11:27,519
from the commission.

247
00:11:28,399 --> 00:11:31,080
Speaker 5: I knew it was to be my last fight. Let

248
00:11:31,120 --> 00:11:33,279
anybody else know, but I knew it was to be

249
00:11:33,360 --> 00:11:33,960
my last fight.

250
00:11:34,039 --> 00:11:38,639
Speaker 4: I've been thinking about this for a while and I had.

251
00:11:38,440 --> 00:11:41,399
Speaker 5: A wonderful year. Let me back up. In serious.

252
00:11:43,799 --> 00:11:48,600
Speaker 4: Athletes and officials sometimes stayed around too long and they

253
00:11:48,759 --> 00:11:53,000
become like a how I say, it is a shell

254
00:11:53,080 --> 00:11:56,039
of these cells, and that's that's something I've wanted for myself.

255
00:11:56,360 --> 00:11:58,960
And I never thought about going past my sixty ninth

256
00:11:58,960 --> 00:12:00,720
birthday from year years ago.

257
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,919
Speaker 5: I know, you know, ever thought I'd go past sixty nine.

258
00:12:04,159 --> 00:12:05,440
Sixty nine is coming up.

259
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,159
Speaker 4: In April, and I had a great year. This last

260
00:12:08,279 --> 00:12:11,759
year ended up. It started with Devin Haney and Regi's

261
00:12:11,759 --> 00:12:16,679
program and Gilbert Deserve, Riverez against.

262
00:12:16,399 --> 00:12:19,240
Speaker 5: Arson and Buliverian, Manuel not Ready.

263
00:12:19,039 --> 00:12:22,799
Speaker 4: Dennis Burden check and then Terrence Croffett Israel Magic Model.

264
00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,879
Speaker 3: That's a pretty good run in just a few months.

265
00:12:25,159 --> 00:12:27,279
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I just said, why not go out.

266
00:12:27,120 --> 00:12:30,120
Speaker 4: On top if this goes well, I'll pull the plug

267
00:12:30,159 --> 00:12:33,000
before my sixty ninth and go out my way. And

268
00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:35,279
no one had to tell me it's time for you

269
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:35,879
to sit down.

270
00:12:36,919 --> 00:12:39,600
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that a boxing fans would look

271
00:12:39,679 --> 00:12:41,480
maybe a lot of boxers and say they wish they

272
00:12:41,519 --> 00:12:44,879
could have the same sort of look at their own

273
00:12:44,879 --> 00:12:47,080
careers and not hanging around for too long and not

274
00:12:47,440 --> 00:12:50,000
show up as opponents. And basically what you're saying is

275
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:52,080
you didn't want to be the equivalent of a referee

276
00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,519
opponent of a good name, but a guy that was

277
00:12:54,519 --> 00:12:55,960
going to lose. Maybe you know what I mean.

278
00:12:56,720 --> 00:12:57,600
Speaker 5: One hundred percent.

279
00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,960
Speaker 4: But also I'd never I would never be able to

280
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,000
live with myself if my oh you know.

281
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,960
Speaker 5: Because of age fall the time is undefeated.

282
00:13:05,039 --> 00:13:09,279
Speaker 4: Right, If my own physical ability started getting in the

283
00:13:09,279 --> 00:13:12,200
way of me being able to protect the fighter, I

284
00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:13,919
couldn't live with myself as somebody got.

285
00:13:13,799 --> 00:13:16,440
Speaker 5: Hurt and that none of that happened.

286
00:13:16,480 --> 00:13:18,399
Speaker 4: And I said, you know what, it's a good time

287
00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:20,840
to get out of there before any of that happens.

288
00:13:20,879 --> 00:13:22,080
Speaker 5: And that's what I did.

289
00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:25,080
Speaker 3: So there was no other like compelling reason. It wasn't

290
00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:26,840
like a health thing or you got some other job

291
00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:29,720
or some other opportunity. You just just all the things

292
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:31,600
you just mentioned. You said, you know what, you look

293
00:13:31,639 --> 00:13:34,159
at your career, say, you know what, over eleven hundred fights,

294
00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,320
a lot of big time events, and so far, so good,

295
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:38,919
and why the push the envelope.

296
00:13:41,039 --> 00:13:45,559
Speaker 4: I also looked at, you know, through twenty two to

297
00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:49,879
thirty six year old monsters fighting for their life in

298
00:13:49,960 --> 00:13:54,240
their career, when a sixty nine year or older in

299
00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:57,639
the ring managing that thing it mentally twenty years ago,

300
00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:58,279
I never thought.

301
00:13:58,519 --> 00:14:00,840
Speaker 5: I thought that wasn't could be right. And I've always

302
00:14:00,840 --> 00:14:02,159
told myself to the standard.

303
00:14:02,519 --> 00:14:06,159
Speaker 4: I've always watched myself, you know the changes that have

304
00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:08,919
gone through my body, and I just said I can't

305
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:10,559
do what I used to do, and I don't want

306
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:11,879
to get it to a point where I can't do

307
00:14:11,919 --> 00:14:12,639
what I wanted to do.

308
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,159
Speaker 3: I mean everybody should have that judgment. I think, whatever

309
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:18,200
your political affiliation, a lot of people might say the

310
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:19,759
same thing about the presidents that we've had of the

311
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:26,399
United States of America. Yes, So what I was interested

312
00:14:26,559 --> 00:14:28,600
also is this because we know how your career is

313
00:14:29,039 --> 00:14:30,799
coming to an end in terms of of a referee.

314
00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:32,480
But I don't know the answer this. How did you

315
00:14:32,519 --> 00:14:34,639
actually get involved in terms of to be a referee

316
00:14:34,639 --> 00:14:35,279
in the first place.

317
00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:38,919
Speaker 5: Well, it was something I always wanted to do.

318
00:14:39,279 --> 00:14:41,240
Speaker 4: I fought a little bit an amateur. I was an

319
00:14:41,279 --> 00:14:45,159
amateur full contact kickboxer. I did some boxing. I was

320
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,480
a fireman for thirty one years with the Los Angeles

321
00:14:47,559 --> 00:14:50,399
Fire Department, and we fought against the LAPD and the

322
00:14:50,519 --> 00:14:52,919
LA County Sheriffs. And when I was thirty, I was

323
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:56,480
getting you know, I did my last fight and I go.

324
00:14:56,480 --> 00:14:58,320
Speaker 5: You know what, I set off again, punction in a head.

325
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:02,320
Speaker 4: I always had it in my head that I wanted

326
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:06,200
to be something involved in professional sports and pro ref

327
00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:07,919
I taught myself out of it.

328
00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,679
Speaker 5: For about eight years, and then about thirty eight thirty.

329
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:14,679
Speaker 4: Nine, I started looking back into it, and I was

330
00:15:14,799 --> 00:15:17,960
very fortunate my timing was correct. I guess it was

331
00:15:18,399 --> 00:15:20,519
not in my time, It's in God's time, as they say,

332
00:15:20,559 --> 00:15:24,840
you know. And right when I started approaching this, many

333
00:15:24,879 --> 00:15:25,759
of the older.

334
00:15:25,759 --> 00:15:27,320
Speaker 5: The officials in the California State.

335
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:31,639
Speaker 4: Athletic Commission were getting old, and the commission demanded that

336
00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:33,440
they put together a training program.

337
00:15:33,519 --> 00:15:35,960
Speaker 5: We're going to bring in some new officials. And I

338
00:15:36,039 --> 00:15:38,279
happened to be in one of those guys.

339
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,039
Speaker 4: And there was one hundred and four people that got

340
00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:41,960
into this class.

341
00:15:42,360 --> 00:15:45,639
Speaker 5: And I gotta tell you, I get into.

342
00:15:45,399 --> 00:15:48,679
Speaker 4: This little room in the LA Boxing Gym, my Body

343
00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:51,600
Olympic Audatorium, and there's one hundred and four people stuffed

344
00:15:51,639 --> 00:15:54,759
into this room and I'm looking around and it's all

345
00:15:54,799 --> 00:15:57,759
the sons of the referees and you know, people that

346
00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:58,519
knew everybody.

347
00:15:58,519 --> 00:16:01,039
Speaker 5: And I'm sitting there. Oh God, I'm in trouble. I'm

348
00:16:01,679 --> 00:16:02,519
loaded here, you know.

349
00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:05,440
Speaker 4: I mean, Richard Steele's kid was in there, and then

350
00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:10,000
many other officials signs and stuff like that, and daughters too.

351
00:16:10,919 --> 00:16:11,080
Speaker 5: Well.

352
00:16:11,120 --> 00:16:13,039
Speaker 3: I guess it they made the right choice, because here

353
00:16:13,039 --> 00:16:14,639
we are twenty five years later, and you have one

354
00:16:14,679 --> 00:16:18,080
of the you know, more pristine reputations as a referee

355
00:16:18,399 --> 00:16:20,279
and a resume to back it up that I can

356
00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:21,080
think of. Anyway.

357
00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:24,879
Speaker 5: Blessed, I've been really blessed.

358
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,200
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now now that the days of being the third

359
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:31,360
man in the ring are concluded, as I wrote, and

360
00:16:31,399 --> 00:16:33,440
you mentioned when I wrote the article about your your

361
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,279
announcement of your retirement, that you are going to now

362
00:16:36,919 --> 00:16:40,440
move towards more judging boxing matches with the California Commission.

363
00:16:40,440 --> 00:16:42,000
You have some experience doing that. Can you tell me

364
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,080
a little bit about just how what your plan to

365
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:46,480
do now in terms of whether it's judging. You mentioned

366
00:16:46,519 --> 00:16:48,519
maybe being involved with the Commission as one of their

367
00:16:48,960 --> 00:16:52,200
ringside replay officials that are involved when when there's a

368
00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:54,159
controversial call that they need to, you know, take a

369
00:16:54,159 --> 00:16:56,399
look at the video. To talk to me a little

370
00:16:56,399 --> 00:16:58,759
bit about what those plans are and when that's gonna start.

371
00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,679
Speaker 5: So exactly what you said.

372
00:17:03,639 --> 00:17:05,720
Speaker 4: One of the things about working in California, when you

373
00:17:05,799 --> 00:17:08,519
become a referee, it's mandatory.

374
00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:10,920
Speaker 5: That you also have to have proficiency in judging. So

375
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:14,160
I learned both on the layup and I don't know

376
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:15,799
if people are aware of it or you're aware of it.

377
00:17:15,839 --> 00:17:19,079
Speaker 4: But I've done over five hundred professional fights as a

378
00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:19,880
judge as well.

379
00:17:19,920 --> 00:17:21,839
Speaker 3: Oh, I know you did judging, just maybe not to

380
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:25,599
the same level of because you're not on camera. You're

381
00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:27,240
not on the TV in front of everybody. So most

382
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:29,079
people they know the ref but they don't necessarily know

383
00:17:29,119 --> 00:17:30,559
who the judges are. But I, yeah, sure know that

384
00:17:30,599 --> 00:17:32,920
you've done plenty of fights as one of the judges.

385
00:17:34,039 --> 00:17:37,200
Speaker 5: Yes, And I've been able to do world title bouts

386
00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:37,960
and all that stuff.

387
00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:42,359
Speaker 4: But when Andy Foster came to California like fourteen years ago,

388
00:17:43,359 --> 00:17:45,680
he was looking he had his plan on what he

389
00:17:45,759 --> 00:17:47,720
was going to do, and he told me Jack, I'm going.

390
00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:50,119
Speaker 5: To be primarily using it as a referee.

391
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:53,359
Speaker 3: I was gonna argue with the guy I like referee, Well,

392
00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,160
just help so people know for what we're talking about.

393
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:59,640
Andy Fosser is the executive director of the California Commission.

394
00:18:00,079 --> 00:18:04,039
Speaker 4: Correct And so for the last fourteen years I've been

395
00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,240
used for dominally as a referee, did some judging along the.

396
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 5: Way, but prior to that, I did world title fights.

397
00:18:10,119 --> 00:18:14,559
I refereed. I'm sorry I judged Orlando Toledo and the

398
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:15,519
silly Long Tanko.

399
00:18:15,599 --> 00:18:18,440
Speaker 4: I judged that fight, and I judged title ballots and

400
00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:19,559
stuff like that in the past.

401
00:18:19,839 --> 00:18:21,839
Speaker 5: So I'm going to focus now and I want to

402
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:22,640
stay with.

403
00:18:22,680 --> 00:18:26,160
Speaker 4: The boxing family and until I can't contribute anymore.

404
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,440
Speaker 5: I enjoy it. I love the atmosphere. You know, it's

405
00:18:28,480 --> 00:18:30,359
in your blood, man, it's just like you. You can't

406
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:30,880
get rid of it.

407
00:18:31,880 --> 00:18:34,240
Speaker 3: I think we're both wifers just do different things within

408
00:18:34,279 --> 00:18:35,759
the context of the sport.

409
00:18:36,799 --> 00:18:38,920
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of people like us. And once

410
00:18:38,920 --> 00:18:40,960
it's in your blood, you can't get it out. And

411
00:18:41,119 --> 00:18:44,119
you give me the opportunity to stay involved. And but

412
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:46,160
what also we're trying to develop.

413
00:18:45,799 --> 00:18:49,039
Speaker 5: Here in California is a permanent incident.

414
00:18:48,839 --> 00:18:52,440
Speaker 4: Review office for instant replay official and it's a really

415
00:18:52,519 --> 00:18:57,359
vital part of professional sports in other sports, and it's

416
00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:59,880
slowly making its way into professional boxing.

417
00:19:00,240 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 5: It's a great tool. I think the fans just want

418
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:06,759
to just want the mission and the officials to get

419
00:19:06,759 --> 00:19:07,200
it right.

420
00:19:07,319 --> 00:19:11,079
Speaker 3: Sure, I'm no sure. Do you definitely want to get

421
00:19:11,079 --> 00:19:11,880
it right? Absolutely?

422
00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:13,119
Speaker 5: Well, they're not.

423
00:19:13,119 --> 00:19:14,920
Speaker 4: So many at you when you make a mistake, as

424
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,680
long as you can correct it. And I got no

425
00:19:17,559 --> 00:19:19,920
ego in the sense that if I miss a knockdown

426
00:19:20,000 --> 00:19:21,400
or a head butt and I call it a knock

427
00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:25,240
down and replay tell you know, shows me a different angle. Yeah,

428
00:19:25,279 --> 00:19:27,680
it's hey, I'm made a mistake. Let's let's move on.

429
00:19:27,799 --> 00:19:30,240
Let's change the call and move on because at the end,

430
00:19:30,319 --> 00:19:33,640
the fighter didn't get cheated and the right people, you know.

431
00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:34,319
Speaker 5: Whin the fight.

432
00:19:34,839 --> 00:19:37,720
Speaker 3: Now, do you stay around involved in the commission as

433
00:19:37,799 --> 00:19:41,000
somebody that's like a mentor to the younger referees. I

434
00:19:41,039 --> 00:19:42,960
say this because I've had the great privilege to be

435
00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,000
in California for many fights. I've sat in and watched you,

436
00:19:46,319 --> 00:19:48,880
for example, conduct a rules meeting, like sat like a

437
00:19:48,920 --> 00:19:50,960
fly on the wall in the back and watch you

438
00:19:51,039 --> 00:19:53,440
go through where you tell the camps and you know,

439
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:55,519
deal with how you're going to call the fight, the

440
00:19:55,519 --> 00:19:58,160
hand wrappings, all the business that goes on, uh, you know,

441
00:19:58,279 --> 00:20:00,640
after the weigh ins, where we're you go through all

442
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,319
the roles and obviously all the referees, you know, they

443
00:20:04,319 --> 00:20:05,880
they're going to want to learn that type of stuff too.

444
00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:08,279
Are you going to be involved in maybe the workshops

445
00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:11,480
or the instruction or the mentoring of other young officials

446
00:20:11,480 --> 00:20:12,039
coming up.

447
00:20:13,519 --> 00:20:17,319
Speaker 4: Then. I always have been, and I'm one of the

448
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:23,079
three certified Referee instructors for the Association of Boxington Commissions.

449
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:27,519
I travel around the world certifying referees, giving classes and

450
00:20:27,519 --> 00:20:29,759
stuff I did. The last one I did was at

451
00:20:29,759 --> 00:20:34,039
the WVO conference in Puerto Rico and then North Carolina.

452
00:20:34,039 --> 00:20:36,319
I've got one coming up in Phoenix that's a month.

453
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,039
And I'm always doing that and I get.

454
00:20:39,799 --> 00:20:41,599
Speaker 5: A lot of people from all over the world.

455
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,480
Speaker 4: Referees have set me, called me up and being meat

456
00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:46,839
at the conventions. Whatever they can call me up, and

457
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,880
I've been helping that assistant them be the best that

458
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:53,480
they could be. They send me videos and situations.

459
00:20:52,759 --> 00:20:55,759
Speaker 5: They've been in and I never tell them, you.

460
00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:58,839
Speaker 4: Know, I don't criticize them. I critique them. I go, look,

461
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:01,599
it's not about writing. It's about what could you do

462
00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,640
different or better? If this situation comes up again. You

463
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:06,039
can't change that one, but.

464
00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:07,559
Speaker 5: You got to learn from this. So we go over

465
00:21:07,599 --> 00:21:09,400
that stuff. And I've been doing that for years.

466
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:14,240
Speaker 4: And I also got a private training referee training course

467
00:21:14,319 --> 00:21:16,359
to with the assistant some of a couple of other

468
00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:19,680
guys that we've created, and I've invited you in the

469
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,400
pass and you're more than welcome to come again come

470
00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:22,880
this year.

471
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:23,880
Speaker 5: I appreciate it.

472
00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,759
Speaker 4: The Vegas called Soul Arbitter elite boxing referee training.

473
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:30,119
Speaker 5: So far in four years, we've had.

474
00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,039
Speaker 4: About two hundred officials from all over the world come through.

475
00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:36,480
And the best compliment I can get is that you

476
00:21:36,519 --> 00:21:40,160
know the heat coming back right so and they call

477
00:21:40,279 --> 00:21:43,480
us up with their success stories as well as Hey,

478
00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:44,640
challenging situation.

479
00:21:44,759 --> 00:21:45,319
Speaker 5: You know what I mean?

480
00:21:46,319 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 3: All right, now, you know the time of the interview

481
00:21:47,759 --> 00:21:49,039
is going to come where we have to talk about

482
00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:52,920
your highest profile fight, probably the most significant moment anyway

483
00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:54,279
that I can think of in terms of the accident

484
00:21:54,279 --> 00:21:56,559
in the ring. You know exactly what I am talking about.

485
00:21:57,000 --> 00:22:00,119
December first, twenty eighteen, Staples Center in Los Angeles. I

486
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,559
was ringside. It was the heavyweight championship of the world.

487
00:22:02,599 --> 00:22:04,480
It was Deontay Wilder, who at the time was the

488
00:22:04,640 --> 00:22:07,960
WBC heavyweight champion. Tyson Fury was still the lineal champion.

489
00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:09,720
They were having the first fight of what turned out

490
00:22:09,759 --> 00:22:13,799
to be their epic trilogy. It was an interesting fight

491
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:16,119
all the way through. Tyson Fury had gotten knocked down

492
00:22:16,119 --> 00:22:18,319
in round nine, but the big moment Jack, you know

493
00:22:18,359 --> 00:22:21,880
where I'm going here. Round twelve, Tyson Fury with a

494
00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:27,039
suffer as a massively heavy knockdown. I've maintained for every

495
00:22:27,119 --> 00:22:30,400
moment since that occurred that while probably ninety nine percent

496
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:32,440
of the referees in boxing would have stopped the fight

497
00:22:32,519 --> 00:22:36,319
without counting because he went down so heavily, Jack Reese

498
00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,640
was one of the very very few that at the

499
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:41,799
very least was going to assess him. You made the decision.

500
00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,880
Criticized by some, not by me, that you made the

501
00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,880
wrong call. I believe you were proven right because Tyson

502
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:49,640
Fury got up, he beat the count, he won the

503
00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:51,000
rest of the round, and he ended up getting a

504
00:22:51,079 --> 00:22:53,759
draw in the fight. So, and this has come up

505
00:22:53,759 --> 00:22:55,519
a lot because the Fury's been in the news because

506
00:22:55,559 --> 00:22:57,200
of his fight with us Sick. It was in the news,

507
00:22:57,240 --> 00:22:58,400
a lot of people were talking about it because of

508
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,240
the announcement of your retirement. Can you take me through

509
00:23:02,119 --> 00:23:05,200
just your thoughts about that situation in the twelfth round

510
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,359
of that fight, which obviously will you know, be a

511
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:10,119
fight that you know, every great athlete or referee or

512
00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:12,839
officials remembered for something or other. It seems to me

513
00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,160
that you know, among all the big fights you've done,

514
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:16,720
that's the one that people are going to point to

515
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:18,000
when they think about Jack Reecee.

516
00:23:18,799 --> 00:23:22,440
Speaker 4: And I'm happy that I was part of that moment

517
00:23:22,559 --> 00:23:24,119
and it went the way it went.

518
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 5: I do have a little something to express that.

519
00:23:27,279 --> 00:23:30,680
Speaker 4: A lot of my experience comes from the Los Angeles

520
00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,880
Fire Department, being an EMT for over thirty one years

521
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:37,039
and writing for nineteen years as a captain on a

522
00:23:37,079 --> 00:23:41,680
paramedic engine company, going out to shooting standings car and said,

523
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,599
it's beating, and I'm very familiar with trauma.

524
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,680
Speaker 5: I'm very comfortable with trauma because.

525
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:51,880
Speaker 4: I personally assessed and watched my firefighters and paramedics assess

526
00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:56,079
trauma victims constantly, so I've learned a little bit about trauma.

527
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,880
Then being in a boxing referee, I'm comfortable with it

528
00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,039
because I get to see.

529
00:24:00,559 --> 00:24:02,519
Speaker 5: The progression of damage right in front.

530
00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:04,079
Speaker 4: Of me, and I get to see the punchy guy

531
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:06,440
gets hit with it's called the mechanism of visiony. I

532
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,799
get to see it while it's happening and watch his

533
00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:13,319
body language. So I got a little advantage there from

534
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,640
from that experience. And this was a highly contested fight, Dan,

535
00:24:17,759 --> 00:24:21,839
as you remember in the day before at the press conference,

536
00:24:22,079 --> 00:24:26,599
there was a football field sized room filled with press.

537
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:27,319
Speaker 5: Do you remember that.

538
00:24:27,359 --> 00:24:29,559
Speaker 3: I was there, absolutely, and you were in it.

539
00:24:29,599 --> 00:24:30,759
Speaker 5: I never saw something, you.

540
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 3: Know, that was a huge That was a huge deal.

541
00:24:32,599 --> 00:24:33,400
That was a big fight.

542
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:37,400
Speaker 4: So anyway, this highly heavyweight championship in the world, the

543
00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:42,000
first one in Los Angeles in twenty one years. Two monsters,

544
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:47,720
huge men, and they were both foxing very incredibly.

545
00:24:47,880 --> 00:24:50,119
Speaker 5: I could you know, My thought was going in the fight,

546
00:24:51,160 --> 00:24:54,240
Tyson Fury's doing pretty good. He's moving, he's bouncing. I

547
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,119
wonder if he can keep this up. That's what my

548
00:24:57,160 --> 00:24:57,720
thought was.

549
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:00,799
Speaker 4: And in the night, in the ninth round, when he

550
00:25:00,799 --> 00:25:03,440
got knocked down, it was a glancing bloated you know,

551
00:25:03,519 --> 00:25:04,599
knocked his balance off.

552
00:25:04,599 --> 00:25:07,200
Speaker 5: He got right back up, no problem, and we went

553
00:25:07,279 --> 00:25:08,039
back to boxing.

554
00:25:08,279 --> 00:25:10,680
Speaker 4: And when he went down in the twelfth round, it

555
00:25:10,799 --> 00:25:13,720
was two extremely good shots for right hand and the

556
00:25:13,799 --> 00:25:18,119
left hand and dropped him. But unlike everybody else, I'm trained.

557
00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:21,400
I'm watching how he falls and how he lands and

558
00:25:21,519 --> 00:25:25,720
what he does. And people think that he fell flat

559
00:25:25,799 --> 00:25:28,799
on his back and his head slammed against the canvas.

560
00:25:29,039 --> 00:25:30,759
Speaker 5: If that was the case, I probably would have waved

561
00:25:30,799 --> 00:25:34,000
it off. But what actually happened is he fell down.

562
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,880
Speaker 4: Took the brunt of the fall on his forearm and

563
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:40,400
elbow and then shoulder his head you know, went into

564
00:25:40,519 --> 00:25:44,039
a whipping motion, but it never hit the canvas, and

565
00:25:44,039 --> 00:25:45,599
then he rolled and laid.

566
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,359
Speaker 5: On his back. I pointed down, signaling that I was

567
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:50,480
scoring in a knockdown.

568
00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 3: That's an O brainer, right, I was gonna say, if

569
00:25:52,720 --> 00:25:56,039
you missed that one up me, we would have interview.

570
00:25:57,240 --> 00:25:58,240
Speaker 5: Pointed wild.

571
00:25:58,279 --> 00:26:00,519
Speaker 4: It was great, I pointed at even you know, I

572
00:26:00,519 --> 00:26:02,839
didn't take him to the corner. I just pointed to

573
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,119
the furthest corner. He went right over, and he was happy.

574
00:26:05,839 --> 00:26:08,559
Speaker 3: To do so well when you probably don't remember or

575
00:26:08,559 --> 00:26:11,400
don't maybe watch it. He turned towards the crowd and

576
00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,519
he gave the throats last gesture like he thought the

577
00:26:13,519 --> 00:26:15,039
fight's over, and he walked to the corner.

578
00:26:16,039 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, which is an interesting thing we could chat about.

579
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:21,559
Speaker 4: But and then I picked up a detective account from

580
00:26:21,599 --> 00:26:23,640
the timekeeper. Even though I was going through it in

581
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,039
my mind, I picked up the count from the timekeeper

582
00:26:26,079 --> 00:26:29,160
and started getting closer and as I this is the

583
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,119
important thing but I picked.

584
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,279
Speaker 5: Up instinctively is When I turned to him, he.

585
00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 4: Was laying flat on his back, but his right leg

586
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:41,000
was up, his knee was sent and he was resting

587
00:26:41,079 --> 00:26:41,480
on a ball.

588
00:26:41,559 --> 00:26:42,839
Speaker 5: But I'm sorry, on the heel of his.

589
00:26:42,839 --> 00:26:47,680
Speaker 4: Foot, that's a conscious act. If he was unconscious, his leg.

590
00:26:47,519 --> 00:26:49,440
Speaker 5: Would have been flat out. He would have, you know,

591
00:26:49,720 --> 00:26:50,599
no muscle control.

592
00:26:51,039 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 4: Second thing I noticed stepping in as I got closer,

593
00:26:54,559 --> 00:26:57,839
he was squeezing his gloves. I don't know if you

594
00:26:57,839 --> 00:26:59,640
guys ever saw this. If you watch it again, take

595
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,079
a look. So I said, there's something going on, you know, neurologically.

596
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 5: Let me see what we got.

597
00:27:04,319 --> 00:27:06,920
Speaker 4: And as I got in closer, I could see his

598
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:07,759
eyes were open.

599
00:27:07,839 --> 00:27:09,680
Speaker 5: They weren't open wide, but they were open.

600
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:12,799
Speaker 4: And as I kneeled down, I wasn't even counting out

601
00:27:12,839 --> 00:27:15,640
loud yet, but as I kneeled down, the thing I

602
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:17,839
saw was he tracked me with his eyes.

603
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:20,799
Speaker 5: He went from looking straight up to looking at me.

604
00:27:21,319 --> 00:27:22,960
So I started to count.

605
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:25,119
Speaker 4: I think it was at four, and when I got

606
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,240
the five, he popped his eyes wide open. Sixty, rolled

607
00:27:29,279 --> 00:27:33,839
over and dan. A knockdown is any time due to

608
00:27:33,920 --> 00:27:36,960
illegal punch or punches than any part of about it.

609
00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,640
A fighter's body other than the soles of their feet

610
00:27:39,720 --> 00:27:40,880
are touching the canvas.

611
00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,279
Speaker 5: Conversely, you are no.

612
00:27:43,119 --> 00:27:47,160
Speaker 4: Longer considered down once no part of your body other

613
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,880
than the soles of your feet are touching the canvas.

614
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,200
Speaker 5: And as I was finishing.

615
00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,240
Speaker 4: The word nine, there was no part of his body

616
00:27:54,359 --> 00:27:55,240
touching the canvas.

617
00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:58,160
Speaker 3: Right, And there's been there's been some people that claim

618
00:27:58,200 --> 00:28:02,720
it's a long count, And I've always madeintained that Tyson

619
00:28:02,759 --> 00:28:07,000
Fury is paying attention to the referee, and every referee

620
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:09,079
has a different cadence that they count. It's not supposed

621
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:12,759
to be necessarily ten seconds on the stopwatch. It's the

622
00:28:12,839 --> 00:28:16,000
ten count from the official. So some referees might count

623
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:19,720
slightly slower, some might count a little bit quicker. And

624
00:28:20,039 --> 00:28:22,279
is if the fighter is watching the ref and knows

625
00:28:22,319 --> 00:28:24,480
where he's at in the count and gets up before

626
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,319
he says the word ten, he's up. Am I wrong

627
00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:27,680
about that?

628
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:29,839
Speaker 5: You're one hundred percent correct.

629
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,759
Speaker 4: Additionally, it's supposed to mirror account of ten seconds, but

630
00:28:34,839 --> 00:28:36,640
no one, no one's exact, and.

631
00:28:36,599 --> 00:28:39,319
Speaker 5: No one's perfect. Right. I got to tell you, I

632
00:28:39,359 --> 00:28:40,759
was very fortunate that night.

633
00:28:41,319 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 4: I went over it one hundred times afterward because of

634
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:45,160
the controversy.

635
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,359
Speaker 5: And my count was spot on. I was at nine

636
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:51,079
and nine was on the clock. So you know, they

637
00:28:51,079 --> 00:28:53,279
could say what they want, but there's always people that

638
00:28:53,319 --> 00:28:54,759
are betting money.

639
00:28:55,279 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 4: You know, they're arguing with their heart instead of what's

640
00:28:58,720 --> 00:28:59,359
really well.

641
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,720
Speaker 3: The other thing is this some and I think this

642
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,920
clouds the view of some that looked at that particular situation.

643
00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,240
When he's up and then you, like every other referee

644
00:29:09,279 --> 00:29:12,839
is is instructed to do by the commission, walk to me,

645
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:14,799
take a step here, wipe the glove. In other words,

646
00:29:14,839 --> 00:29:17,359
there is a few seconds of protocol after you're up

647
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:18,200
on your feet.

648
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:23,160
Speaker 4: One hundred and in the old days, they got him up,

649
00:29:23,240 --> 00:29:24,559
they wiped their gloves, they.

650
00:29:24,559 --> 00:29:26,279
Speaker 5: Let them go, and the guy got knocked out.

651
00:29:27,079 --> 00:29:31,240
Speaker 4: The ringside physicians who who have you know, do study

652
00:29:31,319 --> 00:29:35,079
this and concussions constantly say there's got to be a

653
00:29:35,119 --> 00:29:38,519
better way to assess a guy when he's been concussed.

654
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 5: And over the years it's change. He used to be.

655
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:43,880
You get him up here, asking questions, then you wipe

656
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:46,240
his gloves. Then you get him up you're asking questions,

657
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:46,799
you make.

658
00:29:46,759 --> 00:29:48,920
Speaker 4: Him walk to you wipe his gloves, and in the

659
00:29:49,079 --> 00:29:53,440
recent last ten years, it's been make them walk to

660
00:29:53,519 --> 00:29:58,200
the right or left because they've they've down in dirty turns.

661
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:00,519
Speaker 5: Any drunk can stagger forward.

662
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:02,599
Speaker 3: I was going to say, they can. They can bullshit

663
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:04,559
you and walk forward a little bit right.

664
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,559
Speaker 4: But using your legs to cross over takes more cognitive

665
00:30:08,559 --> 00:30:09,519
function in your brain.

666
00:30:09,839 --> 00:30:11,599
Speaker 5: That's the best way to assess them.

667
00:30:11,960 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 4: It had started just before that, about a year before that,

668
00:30:16,279 --> 00:30:17,440
in boxing.

669
00:30:17,400 --> 00:30:18,799
Speaker 5: And professional boxing, and.

670
00:30:18,799 --> 00:30:22,160
Speaker 4: Unfortunately and unfortunately for me, I was one of the

671
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,359
first guys to use it in a high profile fight.

672
00:30:24,799 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 5: It's been it's been in the in the rule.

673
00:30:26,759 --> 00:30:29,559
Speaker 4: Book, Larry has it, wrote it up in his policies

674
00:30:29,839 --> 00:30:32,319
a year or two before that, and it's now in

675
00:30:32,359 --> 00:30:36,559
the ABC referees guidelines that you to assess.

676
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 5: A guy who's concussed. I'm not talking on a.

677
00:30:38,319 --> 00:30:41,480
Speaker 4: Body shot, dad, I'm talking about a heavily concuss guy

678
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:45,160
and you feel that his ability to in tells me

679
00:30:45,319 --> 00:30:48,160
to send himselves is questionable and make them walk to

680
00:30:48,279 --> 00:30:48,759
the right or.

681
00:30:48,799 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 5: Left and demonstrate he's in full control of his body.

682
00:30:51,799 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 3: And Theory did that, and he and like I said

683
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,480
when we started this part of the discussion, that he

684
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,640
proved that your decision was correct, because after the fight resumed,

685
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:02,720
he went and I think it's clear he was the

686
00:31:02,759 --> 00:31:04,519
winner of the rest of the round. He certainly didn't

687
00:31:04,519 --> 00:31:07,119
get knocked down again or show ill effects from the knockdown,

688
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,519
and ended up boxing well in the in the you know,

689
00:31:09,559 --> 00:31:11,519
the last whatever it was about what two minutes or

690
00:31:11,559 --> 00:31:14,119
so left in the round, and ended up win the

691
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,559
draw in the fight. So as I started to say,

692
00:31:16,599 --> 00:31:19,119
this was your highest profile, biggest moment in all the

693
00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:21,319
twenty five years, do you agree with that? Is this

694
00:31:21,359 --> 00:31:23,200
your biggest moment in the ring as a referee.

695
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 4: Yes, I've had other interesting and wonderful moments, but this

696
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:33,200
was the most profile line because the amount of eyes

697
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:36,119
on it and the size of these two guys and

698
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,759
the fact that it was a heavyweight of division and

699
00:31:38,839 --> 00:31:39,559
all that stuff.

700
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:42,359
Speaker 5: And I'm blessed to be part of it.

701
00:31:42,640 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 3: So how about you, yeah, exactly, how about you give

702
00:31:45,279 --> 00:31:47,759
us a couple of those other moments you mentioned besides

703
00:31:47,799 --> 00:31:49,839
that that that in your mind you that you remember

704
00:31:49,839 --> 00:31:51,559
from the fights. And I'm gonna just I'm gonna give

705
00:31:51,599 --> 00:31:53,319
the folks a little bit of a list of I

706
00:31:53,359 --> 00:31:55,240
went through, I literally, Jack, I went through when I

707
00:31:55,279 --> 00:31:57,839
was doing the story about your retirement. A couple of

708
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:00,599
weeks ago. I went through the entire I think it's

709
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:03,079
like nineteen pages on box or something like that. I

710
00:32:03,119 --> 00:32:05,799
literally looked through every single page and went through and

711
00:32:06,559 --> 00:32:08,440
called a handful of the biggest fights. And there's way

712
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,160
more than this, so I'll just read a few of them.

713
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,079
There's dozens and dozens of major fights, but just to

714
00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,480
name a few, Eryl Spence Junior Sean Porter was a

715
00:32:16,519 --> 00:32:19,640
welterweight unification fight, Gervonta Tank Davis against your york As

716
00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,039
gamboa triple G against Marco Antonio Rubio, and you did

717
00:32:23,039 --> 00:32:25,960
other triple G fights in La also Terrence Crawford, Julius

718
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,640
and Dono where you traveled to Nebraska when he became

719
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:30,599
the undisputed junior welterweight champion. That was one of the

720
00:32:30,599 --> 00:32:34,119
great atmospheres I've ever been in. Bernard Hopkins getting knocked

721
00:32:34,119 --> 00:32:35,799
out of the ring by Joe Smith and what was

722
00:32:35,799 --> 00:32:39,079
Bernard's final fight, Leo Santa Cruz Abner marr is One.

723
00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,599
La Staple Center was on fire that night. Lomachenko, Gary Russell,

724
00:32:43,079 --> 00:32:45,799
Michel Kessler, Andre Ward in a big super middleweight world

725
00:32:45,880 --> 00:32:48,880
championship fight, You also worked five seasons of the Contender

726
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,839
reality series, so that's just a smattering of some of

727
00:32:51,839 --> 00:32:53,880
those fights. But you were saying you had met have

728
00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:55,799
a couple of It doesn't have to be from those fights,

729
00:32:55,799 --> 00:32:57,559
by the way, Jackabe, from anything you said, some other

730
00:32:57,799 --> 00:32:59,720
sort of what endearing and funny stories from some other

731
00:32:59,759 --> 00:33:01,559
big fights you worked, or even fights you worked.

732
00:33:02,359 --> 00:33:05,359
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I want everybody to know that being a

733
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:08,480
boxing referee isn't glamorous as people might think.

734
00:33:08,839 --> 00:33:10,720
Speaker 5: They fly to this coach, they get us in and

735
00:33:10,799 --> 00:33:12,759
how fast. You know, we don't make.

736
00:33:12,559 --> 00:33:15,960
Speaker 4: A lot of money, and you find yourself doing things

737
00:33:16,000 --> 00:33:20,720
for boxing, like wearing an rcle headband with a camera

738
00:33:20,799 --> 00:33:20,960
in it.

739
00:33:21,039 --> 00:33:24,839
Speaker 3: I remember that what fight was that? I said, I

740
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:26,119
remember that what fight was that?

741
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:26,799
Speaker 5: Well?

742
00:33:26,839 --> 00:33:29,960
Speaker 4: You know, but you know, I've always had this attitude

743
00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,559
of do what's best for boxing. And I learned that

744
00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,720
actually from having conversations with people like you. But in

745
00:33:35,759 --> 00:33:37,519
this case it was Max Callum when we were having

746
00:33:37,519 --> 00:33:40,759
a conversation about something controversial and he says, because that

747
00:33:40,759 --> 00:33:43,480
one was best for boxing. And when I got done

748
00:33:43,559 --> 00:33:46,599
with that, I walked away saying, Wow, there's mortal it

749
00:33:46,599 --> 00:33:48,960
than just two guys in front of you anyway.

750
00:33:49,319 --> 00:33:51,039
Speaker 5: I wore a damn headband with the thing.

751
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 3: It was a camera. It was a camera there right,

752
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:53,839
a camera.

753
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 4: It was a camera in the thing, and I was

754
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:58,680
miked and then I have had funny situations.

755
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:00,759
Speaker 5: I ended up. They had asked me to do some

756
00:34:00,799 --> 00:34:01,720
celebrity boxing.

757
00:34:02,440 --> 00:34:07,559
Speaker 4: I refereed Octo Mall against Amy Fisher and the same night,

758
00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:10,159
what's his face?

759
00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 5: The baseball player I'm drawing a blank right now from.

760
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:20,360
Speaker 3: Oaklands, like, yeah, Jose Cano, jose Canseco.

761
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 5: I refereed jose I can't remember who I refereed him against.

762
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:27,840
And ron Jaredy was the ring and I'm.

763
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:30,960
Speaker 4: Sitting this and I and I literally in between fights,

764
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:32,440
I went over to the promoter.

765
00:34:32,639 --> 00:34:34,679
Speaker 5: It was such a sham, a sham, this whole thing.

766
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:36,679
I went over to the promoter. I said, if you

767
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:39,440
don't pay me in cash right now, me.

768
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 4: And the timekeeper leaving, that's how we had to get paid.

769
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:44,599
Speaker 3: Did they is the question?

770
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:46,960
Speaker 5: Yeah? They did, And I got back in the ring

771
00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,639
and it was crazy fights. Ronnie King jumped into the

772
00:34:49,679 --> 00:34:51,639
ring and the robe he came out of nowhere. He

773
00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:53,800
wasn't even on the car. He didn't fight, he just

774
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,000
like jumped in the ring. It was a crazy situation.

775
00:34:56,599 --> 00:35:02,079
Speaker 4: But back to the pros, I wanted to A really

776
00:35:02,159 --> 00:35:06,000
interesting situation was you remember the fight between Andre Ward

777
00:35:06,039 --> 00:35:07,239
and Edward Levegez.

778
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 3: I sure do, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't Edwin Rodriguez

779
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,960
was like several pounds overweight and andre actually showed himself

780
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:16,840
to be a real mensch because he was going to

781
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:19,079
get paid quite a bit of extra money from Edwin

782
00:35:19,159 --> 00:35:21,320
Rodriguez's purse. And I guess when the fight was over,

783
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:25,480
the way the story goes is that he asked the

784
00:35:25,599 --> 00:35:28,639
Rodriguez team or something like that, like, you know, what's

785
00:35:28,639 --> 00:35:31,400
his situation, meaning like his family, his money and in

786
00:35:31,440 --> 00:35:33,639
the end, you know Edwin had not made a lot

787
00:35:33,639 --> 00:35:35,039
of money, and Andre was like, you know what, let

788
00:35:35,119 --> 00:35:36,800
him keep the money. So he was he was pretty

789
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:37,320
cool about it.

790
00:35:38,159 --> 00:35:41,960
Speaker 4: Well, he was ten pounds overweight for a super middleweight fights, right.

791
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,599
Speaker 5: And they hated each other. That brought more attention.

792
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:48,400
Speaker 4: What's his name of Rodriguez got fined two hundred thousand.

793
00:35:48,679 --> 00:35:51,199
One hundred went to the commission, one hundred went to Ward.

794
00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:52,400
I didn't know the story.

795
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,199
Speaker 3: He just told him the award let him keep his money.

796
00:35:54,199 --> 00:35:55,519
At the end, he let him keep that money.

797
00:35:55,559 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 5: Peter back, that's wonderful.

798
00:35:57,719 --> 00:36:00,760
Speaker 4: But I swear to God, then you could cut the

799
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:03,480
tension with a knife. I stepped into the areen. I

800
00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:06,280
had my clothes, I had my bag in my hand,

801
00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:09,280
on my shirts and pants over my you know, on

802
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:10,199
a hanger.

803
00:36:10,119 --> 00:36:12,880
Speaker 5: On my shoulder. And I got approached by the promoter

804
00:36:13,679 --> 00:36:15,960
Jack just to start into a ship show, you gotta tell.

805
00:36:16,000 --> 00:36:18,119
I said, hey, damn, I got this. We'll take control.

806
00:36:18,159 --> 00:36:21,400
Speaker 4: Relaxed, you know, And then I took a I walked

807
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,880
to one hundred feet and somebody from Rodriguez's.

808
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:26,679
Speaker 5: Camp came in and started yelling me about something Wars doing.

809
00:36:27,079 --> 00:36:30,480
When I went into the dressing rooms, it was usually

810
00:36:30,599 --> 00:36:32,480
there's a little festivity.

811
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:34,199
Speaker 4: In the room, that may be music playing. It was

812
00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,719
quiet as a mouth in both places. And like I said,

813
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:39,320
you can cut the tension with a knife.

814
00:36:39,599 --> 00:36:42,519
Speaker 5: And when they started fighting, it was ugly.

815
00:36:42,719 --> 00:36:47,719
Speaker 4: It was like two kids in a playground. They were

816
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:51,639
wrestling and being dirty like for the first three rounds.

817
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,440
In the fourth round, more of.

818
00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:54,119
Speaker 5: The same stuff.

819
00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:58,639
Speaker 4: I was trying to be very just be progressive. Started

820
00:36:58,679 --> 00:37:01,079
with progressive disciple and I want to jump on him

821
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,360
real hard, real quick, and start taking points.

822
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:04,719
Speaker 5: It's a world championship fight.

823
00:37:04,760 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 4: You end up boxing yourself in the corner and just

824
00:37:07,079 --> 00:37:07,880
qualifying something.

825
00:37:08,079 --> 00:37:08,760
Speaker 3: You don't want to do that.

826
00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 5: So yeah, So in the fourth round, though, it got

827
00:37:11,719 --> 00:37:12,239
real ugly.

828
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,519
Speaker 4: Rodriguez ended up having Ward in in a gua team.

829
00:37:18,679 --> 00:37:22,360
His head was between his arm, and that happens, and

830
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,559
I said stop, and Rodriguez started walking back and lifting

831
00:37:26,599 --> 00:37:30,840
his arm choking Ward. Everybody can hear me saying stop.

832
00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,199
And then Rodriguez wasn't stopping, and so Wart says, I'll

833
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,920
take it in my own hands. I started throwing left hands.

834
00:37:36,639 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 5: Over the top. They hit the ropes. I had to

835
00:37:39,519 --> 00:37:41,800
jump in and wrestle them off.

836
00:37:42,039 --> 00:37:43,760
Speaker 4: And when I jump in to wrestle them off, I

837
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:45,519
got hit with a left hand by.

838
00:37:46,440 --> 00:37:48,119
Speaker 3: I was gonna actually ask you if you can remember

839
00:37:48,119 --> 00:37:50,239
a time, because I've seen some things where there's a

840
00:37:50,239 --> 00:37:52,199
break and maybe a ref takes it takes the brunt

841
00:37:52,239 --> 00:37:54,159
of a shot, And so you did get clipped in

842
00:37:54,159 --> 00:37:56,840
that particular fight, And actually, I'm sure that's not the

843
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:57,280
only time.

844
00:37:58,199 --> 00:38:01,400
Speaker 5: Oh my god, it seems like they're always pointing for

845
00:38:01,519 --> 00:38:03,760
my growing because all of us get hitting the growing

846
00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:04,079
a lot.

847
00:38:04,079 --> 00:38:06,719
Speaker 4: I don't know why when they're dropping their gloves or

848
00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:07,800
you're breaking them whatever.

849
00:38:08,199 --> 00:38:09,280
Speaker 5: But when I.

850
00:38:09,199 --> 00:38:13,559
Speaker 4: Split them up and you know, put them both in

851
00:38:13,559 --> 00:38:15,599
the corner, I was a little big buzzed.

852
00:38:15,599 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 5: I ended to lie and I was like fifty years old.

853
00:38:18,880 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 4: And I walked over the commission table to I was

854
00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:24,559
trying to I was trying to slow everything down.

855
00:38:24,639 --> 00:38:26,239
Speaker 5: To get it from spiraling that, you know.

856
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,920
Speaker 4: Way out of control. And I walked over the commission

857
00:38:28,920 --> 00:38:30,719
table man then there was.

858
00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,599
Speaker 5: Five people, the commissioners and Andy Foster looking up at

859
00:38:34,639 --> 00:38:36,960
me like, oh my god, what are you going to

860
00:38:37,039 --> 00:38:40,039
do with this? And it made me laugh, you know, maybe, Okay,

861
00:38:40,079 --> 00:38:45,199
I got this. I'll do something. And I ended.

862
00:38:45,079 --> 00:38:48,760
Speaker 4: Up taking two points from each of them and recommending

863
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:52,559
fines with which the Athletic Commission did because I was

864
00:38:52,599 --> 00:38:55,519
trying to let them know that we're not doing this

865
00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:56,719
main event.

866
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:59,360
Speaker 5: On HBO, a very important fight. This is not the

867
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:00,840
way to you know.

868
00:39:01,159 --> 00:39:04,599
Speaker 3: And you mentioned I mentioned about eleven hundred and fifty

869
00:39:04,599 --> 00:39:07,159
two fights, and you mentioned to me when we were

870
00:39:07,159 --> 00:39:08,639
going back and forth when I was writing about the

871
00:39:08,679 --> 00:39:11,519
retirement announcement, that you had in all those fights in

872
00:39:11,559 --> 00:39:15,199
twenty five years as a professional referee, had never disqualified

873
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:17,519
a fighter from any of the bouts you had worked.

874
00:39:17,519 --> 00:39:20,360
And so when you tell me that story, that tells

875
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,800
me A you as an official are able to get

876
00:39:23,800 --> 00:39:25,920
the respect and take control of a fight which is

877
00:39:25,920 --> 00:39:29,480
supposed to be the case, and b in a case

878
00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:31,679
where maybe it was going a little bit sideways like that,

879
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:33,880
you never let your own emotions get the best of

880
00:39:33,920 --> 00:39:37,000
you to to take a guy out of the fight

881
00:39:37,039 --> 00:39:41,599
on a disqualification. Is that sort of the mindset the

882
00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:44,559
way that a referee has to act to understand it's

883
00:39:44,599 --> 00:39:46,039
not about them, it's about the fighters. I mean, I

884
00:39:46,119 --> 00:39:49,480
know that if it necessary, you would have run a

885
00:39:49,480 --> 00:39:50,960
guy out of the fight. But it tells me that

886
00:39:51,039 --> 00:39:54,599
you had the mindset and commanded the respect from the

887
00:39:54,599 --> 00:39:57,159
guys that you're officiating, who knew they weren't going to

888
00:39:57,159 --> 00:39:59,719
push the ultimate line.

889
00:40:00,559 --> 00:40:03,000
Speaker 5: Excuse me, I got a little bit of fluid. Still

890
00:40:03,039 --> 00:40:05,079
let me Dan one hundred percent.

891
00:40:05,199 --> 00:40:07,360
Speaker 4: And I just want to give you I tried to

892
00:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,280
impose this theory on some of the younger officials and

893
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,679
some of the older officials, but sometimes.

894
00:40:13,360 --> 00:40:15,559
Speaker 5: You can't teach an old dog new tricks. When I

895
00:40:15,559 --> 00:40:16,280
do seminars.

896
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,239
Speaker 4: I ask people, hey, give me a correlation to what

897
00:40:20,320 --> 00:40:21,360
you think your.

898
00:40:21,159 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 5: Our job is with some other.

899
00:40:23,320 --> 00:40:26,639
Speaker 4: Job, and inevitably I have guys telling me a police officer,

900
00:40:27,079 --> 00:40:31,400
and some guys have actually told me a bullfighter.

901
00:40:31,119 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 5: On a matador. And I said, guys, that's going to

902
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:36,000
get you in trouble.

903
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:39,199
Speaker 4: I go, a matador is all about himself, A matadors

904
00:40:39,239 --> 00:40:40,440
wearing the fancy uniform.

905
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,119
Speaker 5: A matador is the one. You know what I'm saying,

906
00:40:42,119 --> 00:40:44,719
They're throwing attention to themselves. And I said, just what

907
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:45,159
you said.

908
00:40:45,239 --> 00:40:48,920
Speaker 4: I go, guys, it's not about you, It's not about us.

909
00:40:49,320 --> 00:40:51,400
Speaker 5: I said, if you want to ask me and Dan.

910
00:40:51,480 --> 00:40:54,559
Speaker 4: This has been my attitude for not my whole career,

911
00:40:54,599 --> 00:40:57,559
but because I had learned, but for the last twenty years.

912
00:40:57,559 --> 00:41:00,880
For sure, I look at what we do as I'm

913
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,800
an orchestra leader to get out there and people noticed

914
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:07,480
me in the beginning, and people understand that I got

915
00:41:07,519 --> 00:41:09,119
a job that even announce what you are.

916
00:41:09,559 --> 00:41:12,840
Speaker 5: But once the music starts playing, no one notices the

917
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:16,079
orchestra leader because they're listening to the music. The only

918
00:41:16,159 --> 00:41:19,199
time they noticed that orchestra leader is that something.

919
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 4: Dramatic it has to be played, and he makes a

920
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:22,239
dramatic move.

921
00:41:22,599 --> 00:41:25,199
Speaker 5: I've tried to remember myself to that state the hell

922
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:29,280
out of the way being conspicuous. Don't I work hard.

923
00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,199
Speaker 4: I've worked hard for twenty years not to disqualify people.

924
00:41:33,719 --> 00:41:34,000
Speaker 5: I go.

925
00:41:34,480 --> 00:41:38,599
Speaker 4: A guy who uses a disqualification as a tool has

926
00:41:38,599 --> 00:41:39,159
got it wrong.

927
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,480
Speaker 5: It's like a cop thinking shooting and killing someone is

928
00:41:42,559 --> 00:41:43,119
just a tool.

929
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:43,679
Speaker 4: It's not.

930
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 5: It's a last resource.

931
00:41:45,639 --> 00:41:48,639
Speaker 3: By the way, I'm I'm sure there have been fights

932
00:41:48,679 --> 00:41:50,960
where where if it had come to it, you would

933
00:41:51,039 --> 00:41:52,679
have been able to you would have pulled the trigger

934
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,400
and done it. But I'm making a point in Jack

935
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:58,239
that because of the way you conduct yourself, that you

936
00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:00,880
had the respect for them to at least listen enough

937
00:42:01,119 --> 00:42:03,599
to not get themselves thrown out of a fight. Not

938
00:42:03,639 --> 00:42:06,679
every referee has that respect from the guys that they're visitating.

939
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:07,440
Speaker 5: But I will.

940
00:42:07,519 --> 00:42:11,679
Speaker 4: But other than that, man, I respected them right because

941
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:12,559
I didn't want.

942
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:12,760
Speaker 5: To have to.

943
00:42:12,920 --> 00:42:16,639
Speaker 4: And if I my attitude was if I'm taking points,

944
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:19,760
but more importantly, if I ever have to disqualify guy,

945
00:42:20,039 --> 00:42:21,280
I'm not disqualifying him.

946
00:42:21,639 --> 00:42:25,280
Speaker 5: He's disqualifying himself. He's getting the points taken from himself.

947
00:42:25,920 --> 00:42:28,000
So the fans are going, I'm happy he did that.

948
00:42:28,119 --> 00:42:30,960
I'm glad he finally did that. It's it's the guy

949
00:42:31,480 --> 00:42:33,079
he did it. I didn't do it. If that makes

950
00:42:33,119 --> 00:42:34,239
sense to it, yes it does.

951
00:42:34,480 --> 00:42:36,360
Speaker 3: So here's the thing unrelated to the points and the

952
00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:39,360
deductions and the and the not disqualifying somebody. I'm looking

953
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:40,840
at the list of the names I read in terms

954
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:42,800
of the bigger fights you worked, and I know there's

955
00:42:42,800 --> 00:42:45,000
so many others there. Who do you I mean again,

956
00:42:45,039 --> 00:42:47,400
now that you're not referring them, you can give your opinions.

957
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,079
I guess who's the Who's the best fighter you feel

958
00:42:50,119 --> 00:42:52,000
like you ever watched in the ring as a referee.

959
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,039
I don't know if you. I can't think off the

960
00:42:54,039 --> 00:42:55,280
top of my head, if you ever refereed like a

961
00:42:55,599 --> 00:42:57,800
you know, a Floyd Mayweather fighter, a many packout fighter,

962
00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,639
a Canelo fight, guys like that. But Who's who do

963
00:42:59,639 --> 00:43:01,519
you think the best fighter you ever wrapped the fight for?

964
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,280
Speaker 4: I can't say the best that there's a there's a

965
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:07,960
top tier guys that I was. I was absolutely amazed

966
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,599
when I was in the ring, Guys like Momachenko, bet Hop,

967
00:43:12,519 --> 00:43:16,679
Triple G, Guys that just are tacticians, and like.

968
00:43:17,039 --> 00:43:20,239
Speaker 5: The smartest guy was Bernard Hopkins, no question about it.

969
00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:23,679
Speaker 4: As a referee, if you're on his right, he's he's

970
00:43:24,079 --> 00:43:25,760
throwing kidney shots with.

971
00:43:25,800 --> 00:43:26,400
Speaker 5: His left hand.

972
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:28,960
Speaker 4: You move over to the other side to see if

973
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:30,280
he's using in the other hands.

974
00:43:30,079 --> 00:43:32,360
Speaker 3: He's throwing hip shots. He's throwing kidney shots. I've seen them.

975
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 5: And here's how he is. He's always looking for an

976
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:36,599
Advan's always looking to win.

977
00:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,360
Speaker 4: When he was fighting Joe Smith, and Joe threw a

978
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:46,039
borderline shot with no effect, but I wanted it wasn't

979
00:43:46,039 --> 00:43:47,800
the first, and I wanted Joe didn't.

980
00:43:47,559 --> 00:43:48,400
Speaker 5: Know to keep him up.

981
00:43:48,559 --> 00:43:52,400
Speaker 4: So I very softly said and and Bernard had no reaction,

982
00:43:52,760 --> 00:43:55,840
and I very softly said, Joe, keep him up. Nobody

983
00:43:55,920 --> 00:43:58,440
heard me except the fighters, right, And all of a sudden,

984
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:01,800
his wine and starts.

985
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 5: And I go, not off man, He's always looking for

986
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:07,000
an advantage.

987
00:44:07,119 --> 00:44:09,320
Speaker 3: That sounds like the Bernard Hopkins. I know that sounds

988
00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:10,199
just like him.

989
00:44:10,519 --> 00:44:13,280
Speaker 4: Yeah, but and Loma watching him take the guy apart

990
00:44:13,559 --> 00:44:16,000
and triple g with his power.

991
00:44:15,679 --> 00:44:18,199
Speaker 5: And his uh, just so many guys.

992
00:44:18,280 --> 00:44:21,840
Speaker 4: I came to Andrew Ward, Oh my god, no, there

993
00:44:22,159 --> 00:44:24,119
now I'm watching Terrence. I've been in the ring with

994
00:44:24,199 --> 00:44:28,679
Terrence Crawford and Jervara Davis and was shown for Erol Spence.

995
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,079
Speaker 5: All these guys that would just unbelievable.

996
00:44:31,920 --> 00:44:35,599
Speaker 4: They're all good at certain things and it was wonderful

997
00:44:35,679 --> 00:44:36,599
of being part of it.

998
00:44:36,559 --> 00:44:37,599
Speaker 5: I was just blessed.

999
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:40,039
Speaker 3: So ill I'll wrap up then with this, Jack. You

1000
00:44:40,079 --> 00:44:42,519
know you just mentioned all these top fighters that you've

1001
00:44:42,760 --> 00:44:44,519
been in the ring with. In terms of the referee,

1002
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,880
I know there's there's a bunch, you know, Fary Wilder also,

1003
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,440
I'm sure in that list. Oh my god. So do

1004
00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,920
you ever, like I mean to do the refereeing gig

1005
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:54,440
or judging gig as long as you do it to

1006
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:55,800
be a writer, like as long as I've done it,

1007
00:44:56,039 --> 00:44:57,639
you have to also at your heart be a fan

1008
00:44:57,679 --> 00:45:00,119
of the sport, and I know that you are. Do

1009
00:45:00,159 --> 00:45:02,199
you ever take a minute to think like of not

1010
00:45:02,320 --> 00:45:04,119
that you that the fighters are the ones that are

1011
00:45:04,119 --> 00:45:07,440
doing what people remember for the most part, but that

1012
00:45:07,559 --> 00:45:09,840
you are at least a small piece of this, you know,

1013
00:45:10,320 --> 00:45:12,719
historical fight that you've worked, whatever the championship fight is

1014
00:45:12,719 --> 00:45:14,920
that you work, whether it's the heavyweight title with Wilder,

1015
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:17,039
and if you're the other matches you just mentioned, like,

1016
00:45:17,119 --> 00:45:18,679
do you kind of like pinch yourself a little bit

1017
00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:20,280
go back and ever watch them or read about them,

1018
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:22,039
or think about them, and just know that you're a

1019
00:45:22,079 --> 00:45:25,360
part of like the great fabric of this this timeframe

1020
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,760
in the sports history.

1021
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:32,119
Speaker 4: Yes, now, I'll tell you what happens during when you're

1022
00:45:32,159 --> 00:45:32,760
a referee.

1023
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:34,559
Speaker 5: For me, anyway, all.

1024
00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 4: I wanted to do is be the best Jacklice I

1025
00:45:36,719 --> 00:45:38,840
could be each night, And so.

1026
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:41,039
Speaker 5: I didn't really worry about what other rest were doing

1027
00:45:41,079 --> 00:45:43,280
and try to beat them. Is how do you beat

1028
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:45,639
somebody else? You know what I'm saying. Anyway, I just

1029
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:47,480
always concentrated be the best you could be.

1030
00:45:47,559 --> 00:45:50,119
Speaker 4: And it was said in a sense that I would

1031
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:52,159
come out of a like I came out of the.

1032
00:45:52,159 --> 00:45:54,400
Speaker 5: Wilder Fury fight and people, you.

1033
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 4: Know, congratulating a nice fight, all that stuff, and I

1034
00:45:56,800 --> 00:45:58,840
was enjoying it with my wife on the way home,

1035
00:45:59,039 --> 00:46:01,559
and I was already saying about the next fight I had.

1036
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:04,000
And you don't really get a chance.

1037
00:46:04,280 --> 00:46:06,679
Speaker 5: If you want to be the best you could be,

1038
00:46:07,119 --> 00:46:09,719
you can't sit and you know, pat yourself on the

1039
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:12,320
back and stuff. You got to look at those fights

1040
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,079
and see what you could have done different or better.

1041
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:17,559
Speaker 4: And now that I'm done, since all this and people

1042
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:20,199
like yourself have been asking me questions.

1043
00:46:20,039 --> 00:46:23,639
Speaker 5: I've been taking back. I mean, I'm so blessed in

1044
00:46:23,719 --> 00:46:24,400
I can't even tell you.

1045
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,559
Speaker 4: And I really appreciate the opposite fact that I was

1046
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:30,840
part of some of these these fights that that I've

1047
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:33,039
been part of and it's just amazing and I love it.

1048
00:46:34,079 --> 00:46:36,440
Speaker 3: Well, I can just say congratulations on a great career.

1049
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:38,599
And I would assume that in the next couple of years,

1050
00:46:38,639 --> 00:46:40,960
if next year we will see the name of Jack

1051
00:46:41,039 --> 00:46:43,119
Reese on the International Boxing Hall of Fame ballot, of

1052
00:46:43,119 --> 00:46:44,880
which I have voted for from in years, I don't

1053
00:46:44,880 --> 00:46:46,599
think I'm breaking any ground here today that I will

1054
00:46:46,639 --> 00:46:48,559
be my honor to vote for you when you appear

1055
00:46:48,599 --> 00:46:50,480
on the ballot. Jack, thank you very much for your

1056
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:53,800
time you Bet, and I wish you good luck and

1057
00:46:53,800 --> 00:46:55,320
I hope next time' in LA if you're judging, I'm

1058
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,320
going to see around the fights, yes.

1059
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:59,039
Speaker 5: Sir, and thank you for the opportunity to come on

1060
00:46:59,079 --> 00:47:00,039
your show. I appreciate you.

1061
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 2: Bet, and believe it or not, I did peruse your

1062
00:47:07,400 --> 00:47:12,719
what four thousand word item on that knockdown of Tyson

1063
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:16,480
Fury and all the impact, all the different angles from

1064
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:18,280
it and what could have happened because Reese could have

1065
00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,920
stopped the fight as you as you made reference to

1066
00:47:21,039 --> 00:47:24,280
the Wilder Fury first fight in Los Angeles that he worked.

1067
00:47:24,639 --> 00:47:26,960
That's I mean, we got to say that's probably the

1068
00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:30,440
most prominent. Would you say there's another more prominent world

1069
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:31,800
title fight that Jack Reice worked.

1070
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:33,360
Speaker 1: That's probably the one that we remember the most.

1071
00:47:33,519 --> 00:47:35,400
Speaker 3: I mean, no question, that's going to be what people

1072
00:47:35,440 --> 00:47:37,639
remember the most. Jack talked about it in the interview.

1073
00:47:37,679 --> 00:47:40,559
He says, that's, no question the one that will be

1074
00:47:40,679 --> 00:47:43,639
the one that people remember. But as we discussed, he

1075
00:47:43,679 --> 00:47:46,559
worked numerous fights of other top notch fighters and other

1076
00:47:46,559 --> 00:47:49,119
big world title fights. He's worked, you know, uh, you know,

1077
00:47:49,199 --> 00:47:51,199
all slew of them. I mean they can hear the interview.

1078
00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:54,119
But Spence and Porter and Gerbonda Davis fights and Tyle

1079
00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,519
fights and Terrence Crawford when he became undisputed in the

1080
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,679
Jewior welterweight division, Bartard Hopkins when Joe Smith knocked Hi

1081
00:48:00,679 --> 00:48:02,199
out of the ring, and on and on and on.

1082
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:06,079
Speaker 2: Yep, great stuff there from Jack, and we thank him

1083
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,480
for spending some time with you and love it. Love

1084
00:48:10,519 --> 00:48:15,480
it there on that conversation. Okay, so now let's do

1085
00:48:15,519 --> 00:48:17,559
a little news like we typically do. There was a

1086
00:48:17,599 --> 00:48:19,760
world title fight on Thursday, so even though this is

1087
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:22,519
not the recap preview, the timing is still good. I

1088
00:48:22,679 --> 00:48:27,320
have to confess I did not have Panya Pradeseri, how

1089
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:30,119
do you say this name, prad Deese Prie and Carlos

1090
00:48:30,159 --> 00:48:32,960
Canizalees on my bingo card for Thursday. But the fight

1091
00:48:33,159 --> 00:48:38,760
was in Thailand, WBC Junior Flyweight Championship, and what a surprise.

1092
00:48:39,159 --> 00:48:40,920
Before the end of this year, we have yet another

1093
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:46,519
boxing judging controversy. Uh just say something about this, go ahead.

1094
00:48:47,199 --> 00:48:49,719
Speaker 3: Well, look, this was they were fighting for the vacant title.

1095
00:48:50,079 --> 00:48:52,760
It was Canazales was going on the road to Thailand

1096
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,039
to take on you know, a quality fighter, a guy

1097
00:48:56,079 --> 00:48:59,039
that's been a champion previously, and in the end it

1098
00:48:59,079 --> 00:49:01,559
turned out to be a contraver decision. I mean, here's

1099
00:49:01,559 --> 00:49:03,960
how you can tell it's controversial. I mean you can

1100
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,280
read the accounts or listen to people or watching yourself.

1101
00:49:06,559 --> 00:49:09,639
But when Mauricio Suliman, who was the president of the WBC,

1102
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:12,679
so it is his organization that he oversees that has

1103
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:15,159
uh sanctioned this fight. Now he was not present at

1104
00:49:15,159 --> 00:49:15,920
the fight obviously.

1105
00:49:16,320 --> 00:49:16,440
Speaker 5: Uh.

1106
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,280
Speaker 3: He he put a post up with a picture of

1107
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,519
the scorecard on his Twitter feed is x feed where

1108
00:49:22,599 --> 00:49:25,519
he talked about, you know, a terrific fighting. Uh and

1109
00:49:25,599 --> 00:49:29,000
it was you know, a majority sort of controversial decision

1110
00:49:29,360 --> 00:49:31,159
and that quote in the in the post he wrote,

1111
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:33,719
I and he doesn't ever do this. Mauricio is a

1112
00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:37,440
you know, usually keeps his business behind closed doors when

1113
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,360
it comes to admonishing you know, his own people. Quote,

1114
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,199
I am disappointed at the performance of the WBC judges

1115
00:49:44,239 --> 00:49:46,880
in specific rounds and that will order an immediate review

1116
00:49:47,320 --> 00:49:51,679
by the corresponding committee. WBC ring officials are accountable for

1117
00:49:51,719 --> 00:49:57,000
their performance. So that's Mauricio's way of saying without saying it,

1118
00:49:57,079 --> 00:50:00,360
that was a shit scorecard. Uh, you know, shitty that

1119
00:50:00,440 --> 00:50:02,480
was turned in. One of the judges had this fight

1120
00:50:02,559 --> 00:50:05,719
even one fourteen one fourteen one judge had at one fifteen,

1121
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:08,440
one to thirteen. I'm sorry, yeah, one fifteen, one thirteen

1122
00:50:08,440 --> 00:50:10,800
to one had at one sixteen to one twelve. So

1123
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:13,039
I have seen parts of the fight. It is on YouTube.

1124
00:50:13,039 --> 00:50:14,960
I will watch the entirety of it at some point

1125
00:50:15,199 --> 00:50:18,360
in the next few days. In reading accounts of the

1126
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,320
fight from people whose opinions I respect online, it does

1127
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:25,840
sound as though this was a pretty terrible decision. You know, Canazales,

1128
00:50:25,880 --> 00:50:29,519
who had been a the WBA's regular title holder at

1129
00:50:29,559 --> 00:50:31,880
one point, pretty good fighter makes good fights, went all

1130
00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,519
the way from Venezuela to Thailand to have this fight,

1131
00:50:35,559 --> 00:50:39,440
and apparently, you know, was the victim of a pretty

1132
00:50:39,480 --> 00:50:42,000
bad scorecard. You know, one of the accounts I read

1133
00:50:42,039 --> 00:50:43,920
about it was making the point that in the later

1134
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:46,480
part of the fight, it was almost as though, uh,

1135
00:50:46,679 --> 00:50:49,599
he was going for the knockout, that's how dominating he was.

1136
00:50:49,679 --> 00:50:52,760
And they ended up giving the fight to the Thailand fighter.

1137
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,920
And by the way, the fight's taking place in Thailand,

1138
00:50:55,280 --> 00:50:59,199
and apparently the crowd was booing the scorecard, because even

1139
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,719
the Thai crowd thought the other guy. So that's a

1140
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:02,719
rough night at the office.

1141
00:51:02,760 --> 00:51:05,519
Speaker 2: But we'll see, all right, We'll see what Mauricio does,

1142
00:51:05,559 --> 00:51:08,400
and we'll see if he publicizes what he does to

1143
00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:11,679
reprimand judges and the and the scoring of that title

1144
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:15,639
fight at WBC Junior Flyweight title fight.

1145
00:51:15,639 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take one more stab at the.

1146
00:51:17,039 --> 00:51:20,920
Speaker 2: Name Panya deep Reside, if that's how you say it

1147
00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:21,719
from Thailand.

1148
00:51:22,119 --> 00:51:25,119
Speaker 1: That was got the hand raised. All right. Now, you

1149
00:51:25,159 --> 00:51:25,960
did go down.

1150
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,920
Speaker 2: The litany of fights for the first quarter of next year,

1151
00:51:30,039 --> 00:51:32,000
which we're about to be in next year for Matchroom

1152
00:51:32,039 --> 00:51:35,079
Boxing back on our podcast.

1153
00:51:35,079 --> 00:51:37,039
Speaker 3: But I want to correct one thing by the way

1154
00:51:37,400 --> 00:51:43,199
Bred three, he actually had previously been the WBC's strawweight champion,

1155
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,519
so he was naked getting a shot at this vacant

1156
00:51:45,559 --> 00:51:47,440
on a one way class. I just want to clarify that.

1157
00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,400
Speaker 2: Because and Canizales had been the regular champion right of

1158
00:51:50,480 --> 00:51:53,400
the WBA, of the w BA, and there's probably going

1159
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,199
to be a rematch, all right. So on the match

1160
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,800
Room des own schedule, they have made official the Catterall

1161
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,880
Barbosa fight that you have talked about and we talked

1162
00:52:01,880 --> 00:52:03,840
about on this podcast. So give us the particulars on

1163
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:04,599
when that's going to be.

1164
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:05,239
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1165
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:07,679
Speaker 3: So this was so we had that discussion about their

1166
00:52:07,679 --> 00:52:11,000
first quarter of Matrooms events with his own. After we

1167
00:52:11,039 --> 00:52:13,639
had that conversation, this fight was officially added to the calendar.

1168
00:52:13,679 --> 00:52:16,000
Not a huge surprise because it's been in the works

1169
00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:19,000
and they had postponed a pur spid and everybody knew

1170
00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:20,960
they were getting close to getting this squared away. And

1171
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:23,320
then when Oscar de la Hoya from Golden Boy, which

1172
00:52:23,360 --> 00:52:25,599
is the promoter of Barbosa, and Eddie Hearn who was

1173
00:52:25,599 --> 00:52:28,519
the promoter for Jack Caterroll, saw each other face to face,

1174
00:52:28,679 --> 00:52:31,119
I guess I had a lunch or dinner together when

1175
00:52:31,159 --> 00:52:33,480
they were both in Saudi Arabia at the Usik and

1176
00:52:33,599 --> 00:52:36,199
Fury rematch, they were able to close this up and

1177
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,559
it is now set. It will take place February fifteenth

1178
00:52:38,559 --> 00:52:39,960
at the co Op Live, which is the big new

1179
00:52:40,000 --> 00:52:43,559
arena in Manchester, England, which is essentially Jack Cadrell's home.

1180
00:52:43,599 --> 00:52:46,320
Tounies comes from a smaller town, you know, in the

1181
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:50,159
outskirts of Manchester, so Arnold Barbosa, Los Angeles fighters on

1182
00:52:50,159 --> 00:52:53,280
the road. And the most significant aspect of it is

1183
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,239
that the winner of this fight, according to the WBO,

1184
00:52:55,559 --> 00:52:58,480
will be the mandatory challenger. So that belt is currently

1185
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:02,199
held by Tfima Lopez. So the winner is going to

1186
00:53:02,199 --> 00:53:05,480
get a title shot, whether it's against Tiafimo or you

1187
00:53:05,519 --> 00:53:07,599
know somebody else that should Tiafimo lose or he they

1188
00:53:07,679 --> 00:53:10,119
cats or what have you. But so that fight is made.

1189
00:53:10,119 --> 00:53:12,000
Now a lot of people have been saying, oh, this

1190
00:53:12,079 --> 00:53:13,920
is a great fight, it's such a great matchup, blah

1191
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:16,039
blah blah. And it's a good match up. From the

1192
00:53:16,039 --> 00:53:18,400
standpoint that you've got two highly regarded guys in the

1193
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:21,000
weight class, I'm a little skeptical how good the fight's

1194
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:22,440
actually going to be. And it's not a knock on

1195
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:24,880
the two guys, because they both have their styles that

1196
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,719
have been extremely effective for them, but neither one of

1197
00:53:27,719 --> 00:53:31,199
them has been known to make terrific fights, and so

1198
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,480
when you put those guys against each other, I am

1199
00:53:33,519 --> 00:53:36,599
somewhat skeptical of it being, you know, a fan friendly

1200
00:53:36,679 --> 00:53:38,840
kind of fight. But certainly the guy that wins is

1201
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:41,079
going to emerge and put himself in a position for

1202
00:53:41,119 --> 00:53:43,840
the title fight, and you know they'll they'll take that

1203
00:53:43,920 --> 00:53:44,360
next step.

1204
00:53:45,079 --> 00:53:48,280
Speaker 2: So while we're here, there are reports out there that

1205
00:53:48,280 --> 00:53:52,639
Tea Fimo Lopez is fighting Suprial Matias to defend the

1206
00:53:52,840 --> 00:53:58,639
WBO's Junior Welterweight championship, that this Catterall Barbosa fight would

1207
00:53:58,639 --> 00:54:02,199
be the eliminator for that will belt. But you want

1208
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:06,079
to make clear as we head towards this weekend, that

1209
00:54:06,119 --> 00:54:08,639
final ain't done with Supreal Matias.

1210
00:54:08,679 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: Correct correct.

1211
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:13,079
Speaker 3: The way that the ESPN report was framed was the

1212
00:54:13,119 --> 00:54:16,639
fight was being finalized, and I talked to various people

1213
00:54:16,719 --> 00:54:18,960
that would be evolved in the fight who laughed at that.

1214
00:54:19,400 --> 00:54:21,760
And Carl Moretti from Top Rank, who was the promoter

1215
00:54:22,239 --> 00:54:25,679
of Tia Fimo Lopez, went on the record, which is

1216
00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,719
rare in these instances, but because it was so outlandish

1217
00:54:28,719 --> 00:54:32,559
that it was quote, being finalized, they decided to give

1218
00:54:32,559 --> 00:54:34,679
a comment about it. And so Carl's opinion, or his

1219
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:37,719
comment to me was, you know, it's so far from

1220
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:41,679
getting done. Yes, there's been conversations, but we are miles

1221
00:54:41,719 --> 00:54:43,760
apart and there's a lot of things that have to

1222
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:44,280
go into that.

1223
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:50,239
Speaker 2: So let me just contemplate this being finalized and quote,

1224
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:51,519
we are miles apart.

1225
00:54:51,639 --> 00:54:54,039
Speaker 1: That ain't the same thing. That's not the same thing.

1226
00:54:54,519 --> 00:54:57,519
Speaker 3: So while it is possible that the fight will eventually

1227
00:54:57,559 --> 00:55:00,480
get finalized, the notion that it is some how sitting

1228
00:55:00,519 --> 00:55:03,360
there and they're waiting to sign contracts and all, and

1229
00:55:03,719 --> 00:55:05,320
that the terms are all agreed to her this or

1230
00:55:05,320 --> 00:55:07,760
that is just simply not accurate at this point. And

1231
00:55:07,800 --> 00:55:09,360
in fact, that one of the dates that was where

1232
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:11,199
the only date that was mentioned in that report was

1233
00:55:11,199 --> 00:55:14,119
March fifteenth, So I asked Carl about that. He said, well,

1234
00:55:14,119 --> 00:55:16,239
March fifteenth is a date we might do an event,

1235
00:55:16,559 --> 00:55:19,119
but we also have dates in April and May, so

1236
00:55:19,920 --> 00:55:22,519
you know, that's like anytime in like basically the first

1237
00:55:22,679 --> 00:55:27,320
roughly half of the year. Talking to his promoter to Sibrill,

1238
00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:29,480
Matias is browner. By the way, keep in mind, if

1239
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:31,639
it does happen, it is an interesting fight because tia

1240
00:55:31,639 --> 00:55:33,719
Fimo is the champ, and we all know about him,

1241
00:55:33,719 --> 00:55:36,679
and we know about Subril Mattias with his tremendous punching power.

1242
00:55:36,760 --> 00:55:39,639
Or even if he did get you know, a pretty

1243
00:55:39,639 --> 00:55:42,039
big upset loss against Liam Parr that cost him the title,

1244
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,719
he has fought one time since. He fought you know,

1245
00:55:44,840 --> 00:55:48,360
a much lesser opposition type opponent back in another hometown

1246
00:55:48,400 --> 00:55:50,519
fight in Puerto Rico, our home area fight in Puerto

1247
00:55:50,599 --> 00:55:52,960
Rico where he scored a quick knockout, and then now

1248
00:55:52,960 --> 00:55:55,039
he's looking to get back into the mix. But if

1249
00:55:55,079 --> 00:55:57,000
you talk to tia Fimo Lopez and you look at

1250
00:55:57,079 --> 00:56:00,000
what he says, you know, he says, you want to

1251
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,280
if this guy wants to fight that guy. Richardson Hitchins,

1252
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:05,000
who won the title of the of a different organization

1253
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:06,280
has been calling him out.

1254
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:06,559
Speaker 5: You know.

1255
00:56:06,639 --> 00:56:09,599
Speaker 3: There they know each other from the New York scene. Uh,

1256
00:56:09,679 --> 00:56:11,960
they they're interested in fighting each other also. I mean,

1257
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,400
so while maybe the Matias I will happen, it's certainly

1258
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:15,599
not the only option for TV.

1259
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:17,559
Speaker 1: It was just I was just going there.

1260
00:56:17,599 --> 00:56:20,320
Speaker 2: The miles apart or not finalized probably has to do

1261
00:56:20,440 --> 00:56:22,920
with is Mattias willing to come and fight in the

1262
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:26,119
United States? That's possible, and also what's the money and

1263
00:56:26,159 --> 00:56:28,119
if they can't agree on that to a FEMA will

1264
00:56:28,119 --> 00:56:29,079
fight somebody else.

1265
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:32,079
Speaker 3: Well, there's no questioning, no question Matias would fight in

1266
00:56:32,079 --> 00:56:35,039
the United States. He's done that before. Uh, there's there's

1267
00:56:35,039 --> 00:56:36,679
no question about it. He's not going to dictate to

1268
00:56:36,760 --> 00:56:39,199
Ta Femo where the fight would be. Uh, you know,

1269
00:56:39,239 --> 00:56:41,079
and it would I don't I don't know this, but

1270
00:56:41,119 --> 00:56:43,719
if they do make the match, it would seem logical

1271
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:45,360
to place it in a place like New York, where

1272
00:56:45,360 --> 00:56:49,000
Tafimo was from and where there's a large Puerto Rican population,

1273
00:56:49,119 --> 00:56:52,760
where they would probably turn on for Mattias also. But anyway, again,

1274
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:54,840
if the fight happens, terrific, it's a really good matchup

1275
00:56:54,880 --> 00:56:56,599
and I would be excited to see it. But I'm

1276
00:56:56,639 --> 00:56:58,519
just making to point that according to the powers that

1277
00:56:58,599 --> 00:57:01,199
be involved directly, it's not not babe, not.

1278
00:57:01,960 --> 00:57:05,239
Speaker 2: Done, not close to being finalized. So anyway, now you

1279
00:57:05,320 --> 00:57:09,400
are reporting something else about Ramon Chaco La Tito Gonzalez.

1280
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:13,480
Speaker 1: We've talked about it. What do you mean, what's ramone Roman?

1281
00:57:13,519 --> 00:57:18,000
Speaker 2: Excuse me not Roman, Roman Choco Latito Gonzalez, thank you,

1282
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:21,599
the four division world champ.

1283
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:23,079
Speaker 1: We've been theorizing.

1284
00:57:23,239 --> 00:57:27,360
Speaker 2: There's been talk that maybe it's Bam Rodriguez, but you're saying, no, no,

1285
00:57:28,039 --> 00:57:31,239
something else is going on with Roman Chocola Tito Gonzalez.

1286
00:57:31,519 --> 00:57:33,840
Speaker 1: What have you learned? What's going on?

1287
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 3: So he had been off for like nineteen months and

1288
00:57:36,920 --> 00:57:39,239
he came back in the summer and he scored a

1289
00:57:39,360 --> 00:57:43,880
hometown victory in Managua. Actually had it in the Alexis

1290
00:57:43,960 --> 00:57:47,079
Argueo Sports Complex, which is named after the great Nick Roguin,

1291
00:57:47,079 --> 00:57:51,000
who was Roman Gonzalez's mentor as a young fighter. He

1292
00:57:51,159 --> 00:57:55,159
was his He discovered him, essentially trained him in the amateurs,

1293
00:57:55,199 --> 00:57:56,719
trained him a little bit in the early days in

1294
00:57:56,760 --> 00:58:01,039
the pros. And the only other Nick Garaguin fighter that's

1295
00:58:01,039 --> 00:58:05,039
come close to approaching the accomplishments of Argueo is Roman Gonzales.

1296
00:58:05,079 --> 00:58:07,000
I mean, you can make the argument because he got

1297
00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:09,679
the fourth title that you maybe even can move in

1298
00:58:09,719 --> 00:58:11,840
the ahead of Roman Gonzalaz in the in the uh

1299
00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:15,480
in the pantheon of fighters from Nicaraga. But uh. Anyway,

1300
00:58:15,960 --> 00:58:17,599
he came back and he won that fight. He looked

1301
00:58:17,599 --> 00:58:20,599
pretty good against you know, a regular type of opponent,

1302
00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:23,599
and he wanted to fight for a title after that.

1303
00:58:23,599 --> 00:58:26,079
There was some conversation, as you mentioned, about the possibility

1304
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:28,480
of a Bam Rodriguez fight, and we've discussed in the

1305
00:58:28,480 --> 00:58:31,639
past about maybe why it wouldn't happen because mister Hannah

1306
00:58:31,639 --> 00:58:33,840
from Teaking Promotions is not a fan of matching his

1307
00:58:33,920 --> 00:58:36,159
guys like that, and there's obviously a big age gap

1308
00:58:36,199 --> 00:58:38,280
between the two and you know, I don't think anybody

1309
00:58:38,280 --> 00:58:42,280
wants to see Roman against a young stud like a

1310
00:58:42,480 --> 00:58:44,920
Bam and maybe you know, take a rough loss, you know,

1311
00:58:44,920 --> 00:58:47,000
in the twilight of his career, but that doesn't mean

1312
00:58:47,039 --> 00:58:50,840
he still can't fight against quality opposition anyway. So Tatiko

1313
00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,039
Zabala from All Star Boxing, who was the who's the

1314
00:58:53,039 --> 00:58:55,679
promoter of that card that they brought him back in

1315
00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,119
that took place in Nicaraga in the summertime, who was

1316
00:58:58,159 --> 00:59:01,199
also very close to mister Hannah from Teakinbaka is working

1317
00:59:01,280 --> 00:59:03,119
on an event where they would make a fight between

1318
00:59:03,159 --> 00:59:06,639
Roman Chocolateito Gonzaz to challenge the WBO title holder at

1319
00:59:06,679 --> 00:59:11,639
Jingior Bandawaite is from Layle Cafu from South Africa, who

1320
00:59:11,639 --> 00:59:14,119
won the title in his previous fight, and people could

1321
00:59:14,119 --> 00:59:16,760
see that it was on one of the Japan cards

1322
00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,320
that was brought in on ESPN Plus. So they're looking

1323
00:59:19,360 --> 00:59:21,480
to do that fight on a date in March and

1324
00:59:21,559 --> 00:59:24,719
do it at at the National Baseball Stadium in Monagua

1325
00:59:24,760 --> 00:59:27,079
where they would bring in obviously a huge crowd to watch,

1326
00:59:27,599 --> 00:59:29,920
you know, their favorite son potentially win another world title.

1327
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:32,800
So that seems to me a better course of action

1328
00:59:32,960 --> 00:59:36,119
than maybe putting him in with Bam Rodriguez, at least

1329
00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:39,840
right away. If Roman won that fight and now he's

1330
00:59:39,920 --> 00:59:43,320
the WBO champion and Bam Rodriguez, who was the lineal

1331
00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:46,159
champion and the WBC champion, maybe in the second part

1332
00:59:46,199 --> 00:59:47,800
of the year they end up do making the fight,

1333
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:50,559
which would be a unification. But in the meantime they're

1334
00:59:50,559 --> 00:59:53,480
looking to do this Chocolatito fight, and so again tudors

1335
00:59:53,480 --> 00:59:55,719
Abala on the record saying that is what we are

1336
00:59:55,760 --> 00:59:58,559
working on. They are hoping to get this official announcement

1337
00:59:58,599 --> 01:00:01,360
soon and they're working on this baseball stadium as the

1338
01:00:01,440 --> 01:00:02,599
venue for the fight in March.

1339
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 2: Interesting, Cafu, you're not as concerned about. But again, Bam,

1340
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,239
whether it's now four months from now or a year

1341
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:13,159
from now, that could be a dangerous situation.

1342
01:00:13,519 --> 01:00:16,519
Speaker 1: He's a hard hitting young lion, that's for sure.

1343
01:00:16,639 --> 01:00:16,840
Speaker 5: Yeah.

1344
01:00:16,840 --> 01:00:19,079
Speaker 3: I mean, Kafu is eleven and zero with three draws.

1345
01:00:19,119 --> 01:00:21,679
He has eight knockouts. He's twenty six. He's a southpaw,

1346
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,559
so there's that aspect of it. He won his first

1347
01:00:24,559 --> 01:00:27,559
fight on the road, so if he goes to Nicaragua, okay.

1348
01:00:27,599 --> 01:00:30,360
He went to Tokyo and he won a split decision

1349
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,840
in Tokyo, so that tells you something there. He took

1350
01:00:32,880 --> 01:00:36,079
it from the four division Japanese titlelder Kosei Tanaka. This

1351
01:00:36,199 --> 01:00:39,360
was back in October on the undercart of Nakatani's last

1352
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:41,599
title defense. So he proved himself to be a road

1353
01:00:41,639 --> 01:00:44,760
warrior in that sense. And he is undefeated, just not

1354
01:00:45,000 --> 01:00:47,519
necessarily as acclaimed as a bam Rodriguez, who we all

1355
01:00:47,559 --> 01:00:50,760
have seen show himself to be a worthy town guy.

1356
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,639
And by the way, Bam Rodriguez is not the last fight,

1357
01:00:53,679 --> 01:00:55,679
but the earlier fight this year that he had he

1358
01:00:55,800 --> 01:00:58,519
destroyed Estrada, who is the guy that hung the loss

1359
01:00:58,880 --> 01:01:01,039
in two of the three fights on Roman Gonzalees. So

1360
01:01:01,480 --> 01:01:03,440
you know, if you want to look at the common opponent,

1361
01:01:03,519 --> 01:01:05,559
there's that there is.

1362
01:01:05,679 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 2: Okay, so good on the info. All right, Wait a minute,

1363
01:01:11,119 --> 01:01:15,960
I just I take Davis and Lamont roach. All right,

1364
01:01:16,119 --> 01:01:19,920
they are scheduled once again rescheduled to fight in March.

1365
01:01:20,519 --> 01:01:25,400
But what is the latest pre Christmas humbug going on here?

1366
01:01:26,079 --> 01:01:27,159
Speaker 1: What's going on here?

1367
01:01:27,679 --> 01:01:30,679
Speaker 3: Okay? So the fight, like you said, scheduled for March

1368
01:01:30,719 --> 01:01:33,719
first at Barclay Center in Brooklyn, New York, the main

1369
01:01:33,760 --> 01:01:37,400
event of a PBC Prime pay per view card also

1370
01:01:37,440 --> 01:01:40,719
a PPV dot com fights already being promoted. They already

1371
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:43,239
had a news conference where they both attended a couple

1372
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,199
of weeks ago in New York City. And okay, fights happening.

1373
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:48,239
You know, there's different undercard fights that are being put together.

1374
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:51,000
Everybody's moving along like we're getting this fight. Tank hasn't

1375
01:01:51,000 --> 01:01:52,880
fought in a while. Roach hasn't fought a while. They

1376
01:01:52,960 --> 01:01:53,880
only fought both of them by.

1377
01:01:53,920 --> 01:01:54,920
Speaker 1: We should interject.

1378
01:01:54,920 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 2: They were trying to make this happen for December fourteenth,

1379
01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:00,079
two weeks ago. For whatever reasons, it didn't happen, and

1380
01:02:00,119 --> 01:02:01,920
there was talk maybe it's in January.

1381
01:02:02,280 --> 01:02:03,559
Speaker 1: It's now set for March.

1382
01:02:03,639 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 2: We've done two city press conferences, No, just one for this.

1383
01:02:07,559 --> 01:02:09,440
I thought it was New York and DC. I thought

1384
01:02:09,440 --> 01:02:09,760
it was too.

1385
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,239
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah it was too We've done.

1386
01:02:12,119 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 1: Two press conferences and now what please? Now what?

1387
01:02:16,000 --> 01:02:21,000
Speaker 3: And so now I you know, Tank is a mercurial individual. Uh,

1388
01:02:21,159 --> 01:02:24,199
he's a creature of his social media. He went on

1389
01:02:24,239 --> 01:02:26,719
his Instagram account. This was a couple of days ago.

1390
01:02:26,719 --> 01:02:28,760
I guess this was on Monday of this week, and

1391
01:02:28,800 --> 01:02:30,719
he and I don't know what the picture was any

1392
01:02:30,840 --> 01:02:33,079
if there was any significance, but it was the picture

1393
01:02:33,119 --> 01:02:35,360
of like what looked like just a normal like gray

1394
01:02:35,840 --> 01:02:38,559
floor like you'd see in a department store or at

1395
01:02:38,639 --> 01:02:42,719
cafeteria or an office building. And and then the words

1396
01:02:43,039 --> 01:02:46,039
that were typed on top of the photo, the fight

1397
01:02:46,159 --> 01:02:51,599
is fucking canceled, No ed, just cancel And that was it, and.

1398
01:02:52,599 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 2: Which we presumed to mean his fight with roj So

1399
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:56,679
what else are you talking?

1400
01:02:57,000 --> 01:02:58,280
Speaker 1: We could we could qualify it.

1401
01:02:58,280 --> 01:03:00,719
Speaker 2: It could mean another fight, but we zoom because he

1402
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:02,920
wasn't specific. He means his fight.

1403
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:07,519
Speaker 3: So and so anyway, Roach then is inundated, apparently on

1404
01:03:07,599 --> 01:03:10,920
his social media about hey Lama, what's up? Are you fighting?

1405
01:03:11,239 --> 01:03:13,639
And so lamar Roach, who's been training his ass off

1406
01:03:13,639 --> 01:03:16,079
in Washington doing his thing. He put up his own

1407
01:03:16,119 --> 01:03:19,320
message on his Instagram saying, the fuck you keep asking

1408
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,800
me for He said that shit, not me, I'm locked in.

1409
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:24,800
He and shit change March first, Brooklyn. So he thinks

1410
01:03:24,800 --> 01:03:27,239
the fights on. So I did what you're supposed to

1411
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,320
do in those situations, and I asked around for the

1412
01:03:29,320 --> 01:03:33,599
PBC people. They're spokespeople, try to reach out to, you know,

1413
01:03:33,639 --> 01:03:38,679
the promoters. H can't. Nobody seems to know. They're like, well,

1414
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:43,280
we we've seen what Tank posted, what we have been.

1415
01:03:43,360 --> 01:03:46,280
We've not been informed that it's off, but I guess

1416
01:03:46,280 --> 01:03:49,119
it's possible he pulled out anyway. The point is nope.

1417
01:03:49,119 --> 01:03:50,599
And then the holidays were here, so a lot of

1418
01:03:50,599 --> 01:03:53,599
people were not like in big close communications with everybody

1419
01:03:53,679 --> 01:03:57,079
or you know, on their Instagram or on their social

1420
01:03:57,239 --> 01:03:59,920
or you know, taking phone calls or what have you. Anyway,

1421
01:04:00,320 --> 01:04:03,679
so apparently Tank is claiming the fight is off or

1422
01:04:03,719 --> 01:04:07,320
I should say, fucking cancel, and the folks that are

1423
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,599
the ones that are mounting the event are not really sure.

1424
01:04:09,719 --> 01:04:12,519
Speaker 2: All right, as you've constantly said, you've done this forever.

1425
01:04:13,239 --> 01:04:16,440
Speaker 1: Is this a money thing? Just speculating?

1426
01:04:16,519 --> 01:04:18,599
Speaker 2: Is this a money thing where he wants a certain

1427
01:04:18,639 --> 01:04:20,559
amount of money and they've come back to him and said,

1428
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:22,599
don't know that we can get you that. And so

1429
01:04:22,719 --> 01:04:25,320
now this is the response, you know the reason that's

1430
01:04:25,360 --> 01:04:27,159
my first blush reaction to hearing this.

1431
01:04:27,440 --> 01:04:29,960
Speaker 3: I get that, and if anything is possible, but normally

1432
01:04:29,960 --> 01:04:33,199
when you've already done two press conference and then formally

1433
01:04:33,199 --> 01:04:36,079
announced a fight and it's now it's you know. You

1434
01:04:36,119 --> 01:04:38,960
can find the link to it on PPV dot com.

1435
01:04:39,039 --> 01:04:41,119
You can find it on Amazon if you look for it.

1436
01:04:41,360 --> 01:04:43,760
They've sent out stuff, they've been setting up interviews, blah

1437
01:04:43,760 --> 01:04:47,280
blah blah. I mean, I would I would think that

1438
01:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,320
that would not be the case. That you take care

1439
01:04:49,360 --> 01:04:52,159
of your money shit before you go do a press conference.

1440
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:55,920
And Tank is an experience enough championship level fighter to

1441
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:59,079
have been down this road for a series of pay

1442
01:04:59,079 --> 01:05:01,400
per view fights that he know the drill. So we'll

1443
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:04,360
have to wait and see. I assume perhaps once the

1444
01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:06,559
holidays are over and we get back to business, you know,

1445
01:05:06,679 --> 01:05:08,559
the next week or so, we'll get a little more

1446
01:05:08,559 --> 01:05:12,199
clarity about what's happening. My assumption is that this is

1447
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:15,599
tank habin one of his you know moments where he's

1448
01:05:15,639 --> 01:05:17,159
just in a bad mood or what have you, and

1449
01:05:18,159 --> 01:05:21,000
was a little bit impetuous, if I shall say, and

1450
01:05:21,079 --> 01:05:24,039
made this post, and that unless something else dramatically happened,

1451
01:05:24,079 --> 01:05:26,480
there's like a boni fide injury or something that come

1452
01:05:26,519 --> 01:05:28,079
March first, they'll be fighting each other.

1453
01:05:29,039 --> 01:05:29,440
Speaker 1: All right.

1454
01:05:30,119 --> 01:05:32,239
Speaker 2: You have the optimism there as we as we come

1455
01:05:32,239 --> 01:05:33,719
to the close of this year, that that fight will

1456
01:05:33,760 --> 01:05:37,079
still go on. The other thing is this is not

1457
01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:39,920
a fight that makes everybody jump up and down to

1458
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,639
begin with, and we're taking the extra time to have it,

1459
01:05:42,719 --> 01:05:47,320
and now it may not happen, all right, nostalgia Before

1460
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:51,639
we depart here right after Christmas. In fact, it was

1461
01:05:51,639 --> 01:05:54,440
December twenty sixth of nineteen oh eight. No, Rayphiel was

1462
01:05:54,480 --> 01:05:56,199
not ringside for this one.

1463
01:05:56,159 --> 01:05:57,840
Speaker 3: Leaving Larry Merchant was a ringside for.

1464
01:05:57,800 --> 01:06:00,840
Speaker 2: That one Larry Merchant was not there. No, it was

1465
01:06:00,880 --> 01:06:02,840
the late Bert Randolph Sugar. I don't think one. One

1466
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,000
hundred and sixteen years ago.

1467
01:06:05,199 --> 01:06:05,559
Speaker 4: Kids.

1468
01:06:06,199 --> 01:06:09,679
Speaker 2: On December twenty sixth, one hundred and sixteen years ago, Thursday,

1469
01:06:10,440 --> 01:06:16,360
Jack Johnson defeated Tommy Burns in round number fourteen of

1470
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:20,039
a scheduled twenty rounder in Australia, of all places, and

1471
01:06:20,079 --> 01:06:24,599
became the first black heavyweight champion of the world. Obviously

1472
01:06:24,639 --> 01:06:27,760
significant for a lot of different reasons. So give me

1473
01:06:27,800 --> 01:06:29,760
more on the nostalgia.

1474
01:06:29,840 --> 01:06:32,480
Speaker 3: Well, it was, obviously, you say, a highly significant fight.

1475
01:06:32,800 --> 01:06:35,119
It was Jack Johnson from the United States traveling to

1476
01:06:35,559 --> 01:06:38,519
Australia to fight Tommy Burns, a Canadian fighter for the

1477
01:06:38,559 --> 01:06:41,320
world heavyweight championship. I mean Tommy Burns at that time,

1478
01:06:41,360 --> 01:06:42,960
you know we're talking about in the early days of

1479
01:06:44,639 --> 01:06:48,039
loved boxing, if you will. It was this twelfth title defense,

1480
01:06:48,039 --> 01:06:51,360
so he was an established champion, Tommy Burns was and

1481
01:06:51,519 --> 01:06:54,159
because it was such an unusual situation and a black

1482
01:06:54,159 --> 01:06:56,440
man being permitted to fight for the heavyweight title, which

1483
01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:59,800
had not happened before, there was arrangements that were made

1484
01:06:59,760 --> 01:07:01,880
with the local authorities because they were worried about there

1485
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:05,440
being riots if Jack Johnson was the winner, particularly if

1486
01:07:05,440 --> 01:07:09,280
there were pictures dissemined or video or you know, film

1487
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:13,360
out disseminated across the world of a black man knocking

1488
01:07:13,360 --> 01:07:15,400
out a white man, that that would not go over

1489
01:07:15,440 --> 01:07:18,400
well with a large majority of the countries that would

1490
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:22,840
be seeing that that that that those film clips anyway,

1491
01:07:22,880 --> 01:07:25,519
So before the fight, they had arranged with like the

1492
01:07:25,559 --> 01:07:29,000
local police that were there as security and whatnot, to

1493
01:07:29,039 --> 01:07:31,679
just make sure everything stayed in order that this was

1494
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:33,559
if he was going to look like he was about

1495
01:07:33,559 --> 01:07:35,960
to get knocked out, that that they would stop the

1496
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:39,400
fight before he got drilled and not call it a

1497
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:43,760
knock got called a points decision. So technically speaking, this

1498
01:07:43,800 --> 01:07:46,079
fight is I guess in the record books if you

1499
01:07:46,119 --> 01:07:49,519
will on box wreck, et cetera, as a fourteen round decision.

1500
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:51,719
But I don't know about you, TJ. I've never seen

1501
01:07:51,719 --> 01:07:55,039
a fourteen round decision in a twenty round fight or

1502
01:07:55,119 --> 01:07:58,280
a ten round decision twelve round fight, unless it's a

1503
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:01,400
technical decision because of a foul or something an incident

1504
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:03,400
that causes the fight to be stopped, not where you're

1505
01:08:03,400 --> 01:08:05,599
about to get knocked the fuck out, but because he

1506
01:08:05,679 --> 01:08:08,239
had them in such bad shape in that fourteenth round,

1507
01:08:08,679 --> 01:08:10,840
the police did intervene and they stopped the fight.

1508
01:08:10,719 --> 01:08:13,159
Speaker 1: With the police intervened, which we love well.

1509
01:08:13,199 --> 01:08:15,760
Speaker 3: I guess the referee with the police as the fights about, right,

1510
01:08:16,119 --> 01:08:16,319
you know.

1511
01:08:16,359 --> 01:08:18,199
Speaker 1: And so the video we have to explain.

1512
01:08:18,279 --> 01:08:20,479
Speaker 3: We have to They cut the video. They cut it

1513
01:08:20,479 --> 01:08:22,199
so you don't see him get whacked.

1514
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:26,399
Speaker 2: We have to explain, at least to the millennials. You

1515
01:08:26,520 --> 01:08:30,680
have to understand that the racial situation, not just in

1516
01:08:30,680 --> 01:08:33,960
the United States, but in the world was different, not

1517
01:08:34,159 --> 01:08:36,359
just fifty years ago or seventy five years ago, but

1518
01:08:36,359 --> 01:08:38,840
we're literally talking over one hundred years ago. First of all,

1519
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:42,760
you have to understand that Australia was a British prison

1520
01:08:43,479 --> 01:08:46,880
colony or continent for the better part of one hundred

1521
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:51,199
years until nineteen oh one Raphael when it constituted as

1522
01:08:51,239 --> 01:08:54,600
its own country of Australia. So this is only about

1523
01:08:54,600 --> 01:08:57,000
seven years after that. And by the way, there's no

1524
01:08:57,239 --> 01:09:00,760
air travel in these days, so you're talking about get

1525
01:09:00,800 --> 01:09:05,119
on a ship, literally, get on a ship and sail

1526
01:09:05,640 --> 01:09:08,720
to Australia for about ten days to two weeks.

1527
01:09:09,039 --> 01:09:09,680
Speaker 1: By the way to.

1528
01:09:09,600 --> 01:09:12,239
Speaker 3: Go, I gotta give you a couple of other, I got

1529
01:09:12,239 --> 01:09:13,399
to give you a little bit else, so I was

1530
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:16,079
I was doing a little like looking. So I've first

1531
01:09:16,079 --> 01:09:17,800
of all, if you want to know more about Jack

1532
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:19,960
Johnson and this fight in particular, because there's a big

1533
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:23,319
sex of it, you must watch the absolutely. I can't

1534
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:25,119
give it more as there. If it's five stars, I

1535
01:09:25,159 --> 01:09:27,720
give it ten stars. I mean, there's a documentary that

1536
01:09:27,760 --> 01:09:31,199
the great Ken Burns produced about Jack Johnson's career in

1537
01:09:31,279 --> 01:09:35,239
life called Unforgivable Blackness that debuted probably in two thousand

1538
01:09:35,279 --> 01:09:37,439
and four, two thousand and five, and I re actually

1539
01:09:37,479 --> 01:09:40,119
remember when it was being promoted. They brought him to

1540
01:09:40,159 --> 01:09:42,279
New York around a big fight that I was at covering,

1541
01:09:42,279 --> 01:09:44,279
and they and we all got a chance to sit

1542
01:09:44,359 --> 01:09:46,760
and talk with Ken and about his project. He later

1543
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:50,000
on obviously produced and did the Muhammad Ali documentary, as

1544
01:09:50,000 --> 01:09:53,000
well as numerous other great documentaries that are not boxing related.

1545
01:09:54,000 --> 01:09:57,880
But this is a the to me anyway, It's like

1546
01:09:57,920 --> 01:10:01,600
the official account of Jack Johnson's career in life. It's

1547
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:04,640
absolutely fucking phenomenal. I can't give it a higher ray

1548
01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:07,840
Field rating than that. But anyway, in this fight where

1549
01:10:07,920 --> 01:10:11,239
Jack Johnson is fighting Tommy Burns for the heavyweight title.

1550
01:10:11,800 --> 01:10:13,520
You know, keep in mind if you're if you're in

1551
01:10:13,560 --> 01:10:16,880
a heavyweight championship fight or just any heavyweight fight, typically

1552
01:10:17,399 --> 01:10:19,960
you're gonna wear twelve ounce gloves. I'm sorry, take the

1553
01:10:19,960 --> 01:10:22,880
back ten ounce gloves. My bad. They were larger gloves

1554
01:10:22,920 --> 01:10:25,199
in the Tyson Jake Paul fight. If you're below welter

1555
01:10:25,279 --> 01:10:27,560
what you wearing eight ounce gloves? So ten ounces for

1556
01:10:27,600 --> 01:10:30,880
heavyweights eight ounces below you know, into the welterweight division

1557
01:10:30,880 --> 01:10:33,319
and below. They wore four ounce gloves in this fight.

1558
01:10:33,359 --> 01:10:36,239
It was more like an MMA glove basically, and it

1559
01:10:36,319 --> 01:10:38,000
still went into the fourteenth round.

1560
01:10:37,800 --> 01:10:41,000
Speaker 2: Not not exactly to Tommy Burge's advantage against Jack Johnson.

1561
01:10:41,039 --> 01:10:41,640
Speaker 1: I wouldn't think.

1562
01:10:41,720 --> 01:10:41,920
Speaker 5: No.

1563
01:10:41,920 --> 01:10:46,800
Speaker 3: Now here's here's another wild another wild stat They wanted

1564
01:10:46,840 --> 01:10:49,800
the former champion, James J. Jefferies to referee the fight,

1565
01:10:50,479 --> 01:10:52,159
but you know, they couldn't work it out. He wanted

1566
01:10:52,159 --> 01:10:54,079
a certain amount of money that they weren't willing to pay.

1567
01:10:54,279 --> 01:10:55,880
So let me ask you a question, Jajoe, who do

1568
01:10:55,880 --> 01:10:57,920
you think refereed the fight? I'll tell you who refereed

1569
01:10:57,960 --> 01:10:58,439
the fight.

1570
01:10:58,840 --> 01:11:00,479
Speaker 1: You know, but I don't don't know.

1571
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:05,319
Speaker 3: The referee of the fight was the promoter of the fight, Macintosh.

1572
01:11:05,680 --> 01:11:08,319
This was the first ever boxing match he ever refereed,

1573
01:11:09,279 --> 01:11:11,399
and he was referring the heavyweight championship fight, the fight

1574
01:11:11,439 --> 01:11:14,079
he was promoting. So just to put this in context,

1575
01:11:14,720 --> 01:11:20,079
Eddie Hearn is the referee for a fight involving his guys,

1576
01:11:20,279 --> 01:11:22,279
or Bob Aram or Bob Aram.

1577
01:11:22,079 --> 01:11:24,079
Speaker 1: Or Frank don King.

1578
01:11:25,439 --> 01:11:28,000
Speaker 3: So they're referring their own fight, which is like one

1579
01:11:28,000 --> 01:11:28,800
of the most.

1580
01:11:28,720 --> 01:11:31,640
Speaker 2: Fight in which we've already contacted the local authorities that

1581
01:11:31,680 --> 01:11:33,760
if a certain outcome is about to happen, we've got

1582
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:36,840
to stop the fight, cut the video because of race

1583
01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:40,880
relations and the concern of race riots. And by the way,

1584
01:11:40,920 --> 01:11:43,039
and this is in the Burns documentary, and it's an

1585
01:11:43,079 --> 01:11:46,960
amazing footnote. Jack Johnson had a white wife. I don't

1586
01:11:46,960 --> 01:11:48,279
know if they were married at this time, but he

1587
01:11:48,319 --> 01:11:50,880
had a white wife at a time in which there

1588
01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:54,600
was racial hatred in the United States beyond belief.

1589
01:11:54,720 --> 01:11:56,760
Speaker 1: It's just amazing. The back dray, the death.

1590
01:11:56,600 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 2: Threats the guy dealt with on a regular basis, the

1591
01:12:00,000 --> 01:12:01,279
different stuff that went on.

1592
01:12:01,760 --> 01:12:05,920
Speaker 3: The you know the famous novelist Jack London. Yes, Jack

1593
01:12:06,000 --> 01:12:07,960
London was in Sydney covering this fight for one of

1594
01:12:07,960 --> 01:12:10,640
the New York newspapers. That's how Now I'm going to

1595
01:12:10,680 --> 01:12:12,359
read you a line from what was written in the

1596
01:12:12,359 --> 01:12:15,239
New York Times about this fight, referring to the ending,

1597
01:12:15,279 --> 01:12:17,880
because we talked about with the police and their intervention.

1598
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:21,279
I mean, people just don't even understand how different it

1599
01:12:21,319 --> 01:12:23,800
was back then. And we have craziness today. There was

1600
01:12:23,840 --> 01:12:27,359
craziness back then also, just they didn't have Instagram and Twitter. Anyway,

1601
01:12:27,359 --> 01:12:29,359
in the New York Times, the end came in the

1602
01:12:29,399 --> 01:12:33,079
fourteenth round when the police, seeing Burns tottering and unable

1603
01:12:33,119 --> 01:12:35,560
to defend himself from the savage blows of his opponent,

1604
01:12:35,920 --> 01:12:39,359
mercifully stopped the fight. Previously, it had been arranged that

1605
01:12:39,399 --> 01:12:42,800
if the police interfered, a decision would be rendered on points,

1606
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:46,479
and referee Macintosh, without hesitation, declared the big black Man

1607
01:12:46,720 --> 01:12:49,760
the winner, for I mean for all through the fight

1608
01:12:49,800 --> 01:12:51,760
he had shown himself to be Burns's master in every

1609
01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:56,079
style of fighting, so they rendered it an official decision.

1610
01:12:56,199 --> 01:12:58,439
But he really got knocked out, so I referred to

1611
01:12:58,439 --> 01:12:59,239
it as a knockout.

1612
01:12:59,520 --> 01:13:02,399
Speaker 2: But it's the first time ever that a black man

1613
01:13:02,479 --> 01:13:05,119
held the heavyweight championship. In nineteen oh eight and then

1614
01:13:05,119 --> 01:13:07,479
go ahead and give the litany. How long did he rain?

1615
01:13:07,600 --> 01:13:11,479
It's an amazing run that Jack Johnson had after that

1616
01:13:11,560 --> 01:13:13,880
in the nineteen aughts, you love this, and then the

1617
01:13:13,960 --> 01:13:17,680
nineteen tens, he was the guy for that long.

1618
01:13:18,039 --> 01:13:20,439
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, first of all, he is think about

1619
01:13:20,439 --> 01:13:24,159
when he became the heavyweight champion. How many decades it

1620
01:13:24,319 --> 01:13:28,000
was before. Take, for example, Jackie Robinson broke the color

1621
01:13:28,039 --> 01:13:31,720
barrier in baseball. I mean it was forty years or

1622
01:13:31,760 --> 01:13:34,399
so before that occurred. I mean, that's how big of

1623
01:13:34,399 --> 01:13:38,159
a thing it was. I mean, imagine, you know, if

1624
01:13:38,199 --> 01:13:41,479
you do any reading up on or watching documentaries or

1625
01:13:41,520 --> 01:13:44,720
listening about the things that Jackie Robinson went through, I

1626
01:13:44,720 --> 01:13:47,199
can only imagine it being that much worse for a

1627
01:13:47,319 --> 01:13:48,680
Jack Johnson because.

1628
01:13:48,479 --> 01:13:51,560
Speaker 2: Racial integration didn't happen in the United States until the

1629
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:56,359
nineteen sixties, almost sixty years after this fight in Australia,

1630
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,760
and Jack Johnson would eventually have a couple of different

1631
01:13:59,760 --> 01:14:02,239
fight in the United States, but it also would fight

1632
01:14:02,239 --> 01:14:03,079
at other places.

1633
01:14:03,079 --> 01:14:06,399
Speaker 3: But yeah, he held the title. People held the titles.

1634
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,640
Jack Johnson held the title until nineteen fifteen. He got

1635
01:14:09,760 --> 01:14:14,359
knocked out by Jess Willard. This was in what his

1636
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:18,000
ninth title defense in Cuba of all places. A lot

1637
01:14:18,039 --> 01:14:20,520
of people have you know, there's the conspiracy he may

1638
01:14:20,560 --> 01:14:23,000
have thrown the fight because you know, he's looking up

1639
01:14:23,039 --> 01:14:24,760
and like the sun is in his eyes, blah blah,

1640
01:14:24,800 --> 01:14:25,119
he's got.

1641
01:14:25,119 --> 01:14:27,680
Speaker 1: A glove over his eyes while the sun is in

1642
01:14:27,680 --> 01:14:28,720
his eyes. Being counted out.

1643
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:30,439
Speaker 3: Yes, but the point is he held the title for

1644
01:14:30,520 --> 01:14:33,279
quite a while and in a time where it was

1645
01:14:33,319 --> 01:14:36,760
difficult every single time. So from nineteen oh eight, you

1646
01:14:36,760 --> 01:14:39,119
know onward, until that Willard fight, he was the heavyweight

1647
01:14:39,199 --> 01:14:41,479
champion of the world, and like you said, he fought

1648
01:14:41,520 --> 01:14:43,800
you know, lots of top guys of his era, and

1649
01:14:44,399 --> 01:14:47,359
that was that. But to get that position, to break

1650
01:14:47,359 --> 01:14:50,119
that color barry because there's so many great fighters through

1651
01:14:50,159 --> 01:14:52,600
boxing history that because of their skin color never got

1652
01:14:52,640 --> 01:14:55,439
the opportunity to fight for major titles or to have

1653
01:14:56,000 --> 01:14:59,079
the big time fights. And the thing that I always

1654
01:14:59,079 --> 01:15:02,359
found to be kind of I don't think it was

1655
01:15:02,439 --> 01:15:06,319
Jack Johnson's choice, but when he was the champion, he

1656
01:15:06,399 --> 01:15:09,439
was never allowed I don't think. Maybe I'm again, he

1657
01:15:09,479 --> 01:15:12,159
never fought another black challenger, but I think it's because

1658
01:15:12,159 --> 01:15:14,079
he wasn't allowed to fight another black challenger.

1659
01:15:14,520 --> 01:15:19,840
Speaker 2: So it's crazy because again this begot Joe Louis eventually

1660
01:15:19,880 --> 01:15:22,640
becoming the heavyweight champion of the world and having the

1661
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:25,840
heavyweight title through the nineteen thirties and into the early forties,

1662
01:15:26,079 --> 01:15:29,520
and then it was interesting again with racial segregation going on,

1663
01:15:29,640 --> 01:15:32,760
Joe Lewis was actually viewed upon as a national hero

1664
01:15:33,279 --> 01:15:36,279
despite the racial problems. Joe Lewis went during World War

1665
01:15:36,319 --> 01:15:40,359
Two and visited the troops and was a symbolism too.

1666
01:15:40,760 --> 01:15:43,560
Speaker 1: He was in the army im as the American spirit.

1667
01:15:44,239 --> 01:15:46,680
Speaker 3: But Joe Lewis was also told and you can read

1668
01:15:46,760 --> 01:15:49,479
up on this also his own handlers, you know, telling

1669
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:51,560
him the way to act like, so he would be

1670
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:54,800
appealing to the white Americans. Also, don't let yourself be

1671
01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:58,439
photographed with a white woman, you know, don't talk out

1672
01:15:58,479 --> 01:16:01,000
of turn, don't shit talk your opponent. That's why it

1673
01:16:01,039 --> 01:16:03,439
became such a thing when the guy's like now Muhammad

1674
01:16:03,479 --> 01:16:06,840
Ali starts track talking everybody, RIGHTA. Lewis didn't do that.

1675
01:16:06,880 --> 01:16:08,039
Speaker 1: Because the interesting.

1676
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:12,039
Speaker 2: Thing is Jack Johnson in the chronology was before Joe Lewis,

1677
01:16:12,039 --> 01:16:15,039
who was before Ali, and then we eventually obviously got

1678
01:16:15,079 --> 01:16:18,800
to Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson. If Aner, Holyfield, Lennox, Lewis,

1679
01:16:19,159 --> 01:16:21,119
et cetera, et cetera, and then into the present day.

1680
01:16:21,159 --> 01:16:26,119
But it's amazing to go back now to nineteen oh eight.

1681
01:16:26,399 --> 01:16:30,279
That is incredible on the nostalgia for Jack Johnson becoming

1682
01:16:30,319 --> 01:16:34,279
the first black heavyweight champion one hundred and sixteen years ago.

1683
01:16:35,279 --> 01:16:37,960
Speaker 3: All right, my friend, for the record, just for the record, Yeah,

1684
01:16:38,119 --> 01:16:41,640
I do not have in my boxing collection a program

1685
01:16:41,720 --> 01:16:44,319
or a poster from that fight, but we know if

1686
01:16:44,399 --> 01:16:48,119
they exist yet there was a program and there was

1687
01:16:48,199 --> 01:16:51,439
a fight poster. Yes, sir, how do we know they existed?

1688
01:16:51,479 --> 01:16:55,479
Speaker 2: I mean authentically you've seen them authentically, authenticly authenticated. Okay,

1689
01:16:56,479 --> 01:16:58,600
but you're still in search of you're in search off

1690
01:16:58,640 --> 01:16:59,520
at this point on trying.

1691
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:01,720
Speaker 3: I don't have like, I don't think I'm spending like,

1692
01:17:01,800 --> 01:17:03,399
you know, ten grand on a program, you know what

1693
01:17:03,399 --> 01:17:03,600
I mean?

1694
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:04,319
Speaker 5: Or whatever? It would go.

1695
01:17:04,399 --> 01:17:07,640
Speaker 2: Wow, that's quite an investment for the Rayfield collection. We

1696
01:17:07,680 --> 01:17:10,359
got to look getting a little more podcast revenue if

1697
01:17:10,359 --> 01:17:10,960
that is the case.

1698
01:17:11,079 --> 01:17:12,520
Speaker 3: So leave us a freaking review please so I can

1699
01:17:12,560 --> 01:17:13,319
buy my fucking.

1700
01:17:13,399 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 2: Yes, this has been an interesting show. We do have

1701
01:17:16,840 --> 01:17:20,520
that preview of the Martinez Ioka fight which again is

1702
01:17:20,560 --> 01:17:24,760
Tuesday morning in the United States, New Year's Eve morning

1703
01:17:24,800 --> 01:17:28,439
in the US New Year's Eve primetime in Tokyo. We

1704
01:17:28,560 --> 01:17:31,520
will handicap that fight on the bet Us Boxing Show

1705
01:17:31,600 --> 01:17:33,479
Live Friday at one Eastern time.

1706
01:17:34,079 --> 01:17:35,680
Speaker 1: Again. Enjoy the conversation.

1707
01:17:35,840 --> 01:17:39,800
Speaker 2: Enjoyed the conversation and got some enlightenment from Jack Reese

1708
01:17:40,000 --> 01:17:42,800
here on the pod. Anything else before we head to

1709
01:17:42,840 --> 01:17:47,159
the weekend and wrap up twenty twenty four, Damn Rayfield, anything.

1710
01:17:46,920 --> 01:17:52,520
Speaker 3: Else with everybody? A happy holiday season, right yeah, Happy

1711
01:17:52,600 --> 01:17:55,039
New Year, New Year, the whole.

1712
01:17:54,880 --> 01:17:56,079
Speaker 1: The whole bit will be.

1713
01:17:56,399 --> 01:17:59,159
Speaker 2: We'll be coming back your way again previewing and recapping

1714
01:17:59,199 --> 01:18:03,079
in twenty twenty five. For now, everybody check us out

1715
01:18:03,079 --> 01:18:05,640
on BetUS and their platforms and their YouTube.

1716
01:18:05,239 --> 01:18:06,920
Speaker 1: On Friday at one Eastern time as we.

1717
01:18:06,920 --> 01:18:09,960
Speaker 2: Release this podcast, Big Dan, have a good weekend. We'll

1718
01:18:09,960 --> 01:18:13,079
talk to you again soonj also jump aboard on his

1719
01:18:13,159 --> 01:18:16,520
fight Preach Unite, Substack, subscribe, get on the newsletter. You

1720
01:18:16,600 --> 01:18:18,439
want to be there for all the intel, for all

1721
01:18:18,479 --> 01:18:22,119
the info. With that, for now, we're good previewing into

1722
01:18:22,119 --> 01:18:24,439
the weekend one more time here in twenty twenty four.

1723
01:18:24,479 --> 01:18:28,079
You've been locked in on the Big Fight Weekend Preview podcast,