Speaker 1: The countdown is on to fight time. This is Big
Fight Weekend.
Speaker 2: Now here is your host, DJ Leaves. Well, we are
approaching the end of twenty to twenty four, but no, no,
we're not done yet here on the podcast feed, still
much to go over, including eventually off of this weekend,
a world title fight in Japan. We've gotten one of
the more prominent referees the last decade plus really the
last twenty twenty five years in United States boxing, Jack Riche.
You'll hear from him right here on this pod. Some news,
some nostalgia. It is the big Fight weekend preview. We
come off the Christmas holiday. We also say Happy Honikah
Festivus to the rest of us as well to Dan Rayfield,
who is a board here on the pod.
Speaker 1: This is the final weekend of the calendar year. You
don't have to.
Speaker 2: Put up with meetle next year after this weekend. I'm
just saying here on the show, how are things.
Speaker 3: Things are good. It's a little slow, but we're good
with it. I'm excited. I'm we're gonna talk about that
Japanese review. I'll be very excited about that. We hear
from Jack Reese, one of the great referees of all time.
We got plenty to discuss. Despite yeah, I that there's
not a lot of going on in the ring in
the net a little bit.
Speaker 1: By the way, is it.
Speaker 2: And to everybody, make sure your rate us, review us.
Some of you have been doing that here in December.
We'll take some more here at the end of the
calendar year, at the end of this month, because they
always help with the algorithms there on Apple, Spreaker, Spotify.
If you enjoy the content, as we're here doing this
twice every weekend, I continue to say, we do this
with pride. I'm not just being cocky, arrogant whatever. You
don't have any other podcast feed that's got a preview
and a recap religiously over and over and over again
every weekend. If you enjoy it, help us out, peeps, savages,
rate us in review us. The five star reviews do help.
If you enjoy that, say so. It is unusual that
we really we got to the end. I understand it's
the weekend before Christmas, but now it's also the weekend
before New Year's Christmas and New Year's not following on
the weekend. We don't have a prominent fight card again
really in the United States. We obviously had Usik Fury
card in Saudi Arabia last weekend. Now this fight card
is in Japan on New Year's Eve. I just find
that interesting quick comment from you that nobody took advantage,
none of the promoters, nobody took advantage of maybe this
last week or this week.
Speaker 3: I mean, there's usually, at least an America anyway, there's
almost never fights on this weekend or the New Year's
weekend in terms of what would have been Remember on
Christmas Eve, December twenty fourth, we were supposed to have
another major card in Japan that was headlined by in
a way against Goodman, but there was an injury, so
that fight was backed up until the end of January.
And in Japan typically, and this has been their tradition
for a very long time. Not only is there usually
like a title fight card like we're going to talk
about with the rematch being Fernando Martinez and Kazuto Ioka,
there's usually multiple world title fights and oftentimes multiple world
title cards for whatever the reasons are that did not
take place this year. But that's more of an anomaly
because I mean there have been years where there's been
over the span of several days leading into New Year's
been three four cars with you know, five six, seven
world title fights, but not this year. But we got
a good one nonetheless.
Speaker 2: All right, So we'll get into that in a couple
of moments, and again we have some some fight news
as well here to go over, including well, im just
teasing here, Wait a minute, Gervonte Davis is now saying
that his fight is off. Stay tuned, stay tuned on
the pod. As we released this Thursday night into Friday.
So as you mentioned, it is all the way to Tuesday,
and we will have a bet Us show by the way,
on Friday handicapping this Fernando Martinez title defense for the
WBA Junior Benamweight Championship against kas Ioka of Japan. That
is Tuesday morning US time, and it is Tuesday night
obviously primetime in Japan. And these guys just fought on
in July and had a very entertaining fight that Martinez
won a quick rematch by present day boxing standards, usually
these things take like eighteen months or two years to happen. Again, No, no,
not the case here with this, and we're glad for that.
Speaker 3: I mean The disappointing part about the rematch is the
fact that, as far as I know, unless something dramatically
changes in the next few days, there is no official
United States stream of the fight or broadcast of the fight.
But that doesn't mean it's not worth discussing because when
they fought the first fight, as you mentioned back in July,
they put on a bona fide fight of the air contender.
I don't think it's going to be picked by most
people as the actual winner, but it absolutely one belongs
on those various lists, And if they're not on those lists,
that just tells me that the folks that are compiling
those lists didn't take the time to actually watch the fight,
which is readily available on YouTube. But they met back
in July to unify the IBF and the WBA titles
in the Junior bandamweight division. They put an hour actually
hillacious fight, just an all action affair from start to finish.
Speaker 4: Uh.
Speaker 3: Martinez did win the fight one seventeen one eleven, one sixteen,
one to twelve. And then, as we discussed numerous times TJ,
there's always that wacky out liar score that just you'd
want to just shoot yourself one of the judges actually
had the audacity to score this fight one twenty to
one eight, which is a shutout, which is freaking preposterous.
Speaker 2: Did's the Japanese guy in Japan? I've scored twelve nothing
for Martinez?
Speaker 3: Yes, so I mean sixteen twelve seventeen eleven. That was
more realistic than just a clean sweep. But nonetheless, it
was such a great fight that they're doing it again.
So because Martinez won the fight and unified the two belts. Uh,
the IBF did IBF things, and they ordered a mandatory,
and uh, Martinez was a businessman about it. He was like,
I'm getting a great offer to return to Japan to
fight Ioka, who's been a top fighter for a very
long time. And by the way, when I tell you
they combined in the first fight to land six hundred
more almost six hundred and fifty punches and combine to
throw two thousand plus punches, it was a ridiculous, fast
paced fight. But anyway, so anyway, they ordered the rematch,
and he decided not to go forward with his mandatory
of the IBF because he had an offer for a
lot more money of a rematch with Ioka to go
back to Japan, so we took the offer for the rematch,
gave up the IBF title, which actually the organization tried
to fill the vacancy in a fight that was just
about a week or so less than a week ago,
and the two guys ended up fighting to a draw,
so that title is still vacant. Meanwhile, La Martinez Niker
will get their business back together on New Year's Eve
for the one big fight card in Japan on the
holiday weekend. So terrific fight. I hope that I'm going
to look for a live stream. I was certainly going
to look forward on YouTube and the immediacy after the
fight well worth for anybody that didn't see the first
fight to go check it out, Absolutely worth it. I
can't wait for the rematch.
Speaker 2: And again you mentioned end of the year fights. The
end of twenty twenty two was the fight with Joshua Franco,
the brother of Jesse Bam Rodriguez, and I thought Franco
won that fight in watching that fight, he did not
get the decision.
Speaker 1: It was a draw.
Speaker 2: Then they had the rematch in the summer of twenty
three and that's where Franco was having weight problems and
they ended up moving forward with the title fight despite
him being several pounds overweight, and Ioka beat him. Ioka
then defended one more time by knockout before Martinez upset him.
So that's kind of the backdrop. And again this is
all the way to Tuesday that that will be happening.
But we're a preview podcast, so we're giving you plenty
of time to try to locate it. Do we have,
even on the ray Field meter, like a five percent
chance that somebody may pick this up and stream it,
or do you think at this stage closet Christmas it's
likely not happening because nobody would pay the sanctioning fee
to televise it on one of the.
Speaker 3: US stream Probably not. I mean ESPN plus is not
picking it up. I mean de Zone has been known
at times to pick things up at the last minute,
So I mean, I guess it's theoretically possible, but I
just know this. I promise somebody's going to post a
fight on YouTube. It won't be a problem even if
you can't see it alive. You see it like in
the enough or so afterwards.
Speaker 2: But Rayfield does not have to do like the old
days and beg somebody through the regular mail to send
him a VHS copy that he sees weeks later.
Speaker 3: Exactly, do not have to do.
Speaker 2: That for that fight coming up on kids? They just
don't understand, No, they have no idea. They don't understand
what we have to what we had to deal with
and do. All right, So that leads us to a guest.
Before we get to the news, shall we t this up.
You've been mentioning about Jack Reese, who is retiring after
over twenty five years as a world championship referee, working
over one hundred world title fights, including the Wilder Fury fight.
We've been talking about this and you got the opportunity to.
Speaker 3: Clare for him just recently the first Wilder Fury fight
which had the famous scene in the twelfth round. Jack
referreed exactly twenty five years. As a matter of fact,
I'll just give one little nugget from the interview because
I didn't know the answer this and I asked them
about it. The last he worked was the main event
of the READ season card in Los Angeles in August,
when the main event was Terrence Crawford against Israel Majamov
and Crawford won the close decision won the WBA Junior
Middaway title turned out to be his last fight. I asked, Jack,
was that your last fight? Did you know that going
in or did that just the way that it worked out.
He said that he knew that when he got in
the ring that night it would be his last fight,
but he hadn't told anybody.
Speaker 1: Interesting.
Speaker 3: You know that he wanted to just do it on
his own terms. And you know, Jack, he's been a
great refer a long time, has worked a zillion fights,
lots of big time fights, and we talked about it,
and he was terrific in the interview.
Speaker 5: So people here right.
Speaker 2: Now, without further delay, let's get to that conversation right
now with Dan with one of the more prominent referees
in US boxing for the last quarter of century.
Speaker 3: Well, it is my distinct pleasure to welcome to our
podcast this week, Jack Reese. We're not hearing from a
fighter this week, We're not hearing from a promoter. We're
hearing from one of the best referees in the last
twenty five years, probably one of the best referees in
boxing history. It is Jack Reese. Jack, you you well,
I think some people buy surprise two weeks ago or
early December when you announced that you're retiring. You've had
a career spanning twenty five years as a referee one thousand,
one hundred and fifty two professional boxing matches that according
to box Treck, So we're here to talk about your
great career. Thank you very much for joining me on
the show today.
Speaker 5: Again, thanks you very much for having me. What a
great opportunity and I appreciate it very much. You bet
you for that great introduction.
Speaker 3: What what I forgot to mention actually is within the
context of that total of one hundred and fifty two
fights is more than one hundred world championship fights. So
congratulations on an outstanding career and I'm glad we can
kind of review it. This will consider this like your
exit interview. How about that sounds great? So, first off,
you had your what I guess was your final bout
was in August August third in Los Angeles, and most
people were familiar with your career know that by and
large you work for the California State Athletic Commission, although
you have done fights and other jurisdictions and world title
fights and other parts of the country and other parts
of the world. But when you did that event on
August thirty, you were the referee for the Terrence Crawford
fight against Israel Magemov when Terrence Crawford won the WBA
Junior Middleway title, and I actually I you know, we
I'll let folks know. We chaded a couple of emails
and stuff because I wrote a story about your retirement.
I actually meant to ask you this, uh, when we
were going back and forth when you refereed Terrence Crawford
against Israel Majimov going into the ring then like, did
you know this was going to be your last fight
or had you not yet decided what you were doing
or didn't know maybe about what the upcoming schedule was
from the commission.
Speaker 5: I knew it was to be my last fight. Let
anybody else know, but I knew it was to be
my last fight.
Speaker 4: I've been thinking about this for a while and I had.
Speaker 5: A wonderful year. Let me back up. In serious.
Speaker 4: Athletes and officials sometimes stayed around too long and they
become like a how I say, it is a shell
of these cells, and that's that's something I've wanted for myself.
And I never thought about going past my sixty ninth
birthday from year years ago.
Speaker 5: I know, you know, ever thought I'd go past sixty nine.
Sixty nine is coming up.
Speaker 4: In April, and I had a great year. This last
year ended up. It started with Devin Haney and Regi's
program and Gilbert Deserve, Riverez against.
Speaker 5: Arson and Buliverian, Manuel not Ready.
Speaker 4: Dennis Burden check and then Terrence Croffett Israel Magic Model.
Speaker 3: That's a pretty good run in just a few months.
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I just said, why not go out.
Speaker 4: On top if this goes well, I'll pull the plug
before my sixty ninth and go out my way. And
no one had to tell me it's time for you
to sit down.
Speaker 3: I mean, I think that a boxing fans would look
maybe a lot of boxers and say they wish they
could have the same sort of look at their own
careers and not hanging around for too long and not
show up as opponents. And basically what you're saying is
you didn't want to be the equivalent of a referee
opponent of a good name, but a guy that was
going to lose. Maybe you know what I mean.
Speaker 5: One hundred percent.
Speaker 4: But also I'd never I would never be able to
live with myself if my oh you know.
Speaker 5: Because of age fall the time is undefeated.
Speaker 4: Right, If my own physical ability started getting in the
way of me being able to protect the fighter, I
couldn't live with myself as somebody got.
Speaker 5: Hurt and that none of that happened.
Speaker 4: And I said, you know what, it's a good time
to get out of there before any of that happens.
Speaker 5: And that's what I did.
Speaker 3: So there was no other like compelling reason. It wasn't
like a health thing or you got some other job
or some other opportunity. You just just all the things
you just mentioned. You said, you know what, you look
at your career, say, you know what, over eleven hundred fights,
a lot of big time events, and so far, so good,
and why the push the envelope.
Speaker 4: I also looked at, you know, through twenty two to
thirty six year old monsters fighting for their life in
their career, when a sixty nine year or older in
the ring managing that thing it mentally twenty years ago,
I never thought.
Speaker 5: I thought that wasn't could be right. And I've always
told myself to the standard.
Speaker 4: I've always watched myself, you know the changes that have
gone through my body, and I just said I can't
do what I used to do, and I don't want
to get it to a point where I can't do
what I wanted to do.
Speaker 3: I mean everybody should have that judgment. I think, whatever
your political affiliation, a lot of people might say the
same thing about the presidents that we've had of the
United States of America. Yes, So what I was interested
also is this because we know how your career is
coming to an end in terms of of a referee.
But I don't know the answer this. How did you
actually get involved in terms of to be a referee
in the first place.
Speaker 5: Well, it was something I always wanted to do.
Speaker 4: I fought a little bit an amateur. I was an
amateur full contact kickboxer. I did some boxing. I was
a fireman for thirty one years with the Los Angeles
Fire Department, and we fought against the LAPD and the
LA County Sheriffs. And when I was thirty, I was
getting you know, I did my last fight and I go.
Speaker 5: You know what, I set off again, punction in a head.
Speaker 4: I always had it in my head that I wanted
to be something involved in professional sports and pro ref
I taught myself out of it.
Speaker 5: For about eight years, and then about thirty eight thirty.
Speaker 4: Nine, I started looking back into it, and I was
very fortunate my timing was correct. I guess it was
not in my time, It's in God's time, as they say,
you know. And right when I started approaching this, many
of the older.
Speaker 5: The officials in the California State.
Speaker 4: Athletic Commission were getting old, and the commission demanded that
they put together a training program.
Speaker 5: We're going to bring in some new officials. And I
happened to be in one of those guys.
Speaker 4: And there was one hundred and four people that got
into this class.
Speaker 5: And I gotta tell you, I get into.
Speaker 4: This little room in the LA Boxing Gym, my Body
Olympic Audatorium, and there's one hundred and four people stuffed
into this room and I'm looking around and it's all
the sons of the referees and you know, people that
knew everybody.
Speaker 5: And I'm sitting there. Oh God, I'm in trouble. I'm
loaded here, you know.
Speaker 4: I mean, Richard Steele's kid was in there, and then
many other officials signs and stuff like that, and daughters too.
Speaker 5: Well.
Speaker 3: I guess it they made the right choice, because here
we are twenty five years later, and you have one
of the you know, more pristine reputations as a referee
and a resume to back it up that I can
think of. Anyway.
Speaker 5: Blessed, I've been really blessed.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Now now that the days of being the third
man in the ring are concluded, as I wrote, and
you mentioned when I wrote the article about your your
announcement of your retirement, that you are going to now
move towards more judging boxing matches with the California Commission.
You have some experience doing that. Can you tell me
a little bit about just how what your plan to
do now in terms of whether it's judging. You mentioned
maybe being involved with the Commission as one of their
ringside replay officials that are involved when when there's a
controversial call that they need to, you know, take a
look at the video. To talk to me a little
bit about what those plans are and when that's gonna start.
Speaker 5: So exactly what you said.
Speaker 4: One of the things about working in California, when you
become a referee, it's mandatory.
Speaker 5: That you also have to have proficiency in judging. So
I learned both on the layup and I don't know
if people are aware of it or you're aware of it.
Speaker 4: But I've done over five hundred professional fights as a
judge as well.
Speaker 3: Oh, I know you did judging, just maybe not to
the same level of because you're not on camera. You're
not on the TV in front of everybody. So most
people they know the ref but they don't necessarily know
who the judges are. But I, yeah, sure know that
you've done plenty of fights as one of the judges.
Speaker 5: Yes, And I've been able to do world title bouts
and all that stuff.
Speaker 4: But when Andy Foster came to California like fourteen years ago,
he was looking he had his plan on what he
was going to do, and he told me Jack, I'm going.
Speaker 5: To be primarily using it as a referee.
Speaker 3: I was gonna argue with the guy I like referee, Well,
just help so people know for what we're talking about.
Andy Fosser is the executive director of the California Commission.
Speaker 4: Correct And so for the last fourteen years I've been
used for dominally as a referee, did some judging along the.
Speaker 5: Way, but prior to that, I did world title fights.
I refereed. I'm sorry I judged Orlando Toledo and the
silly Long Tanko.
Speaker 4: I judged that fight, and I judged title ballots and
stuff like that in the past.
Speaker 5: So I'm going to focus now and I want to
stay with.
Speaker 4: The boxing family and until I can't contribute anymore.
Speaker 5: I enjoy it. I love the atmosphere. You know, it's
in your blood, man, it's just like you. You can't
get rid of it.
Speaker 3: I think we're both wifers just do different things within
the context of the sport.
Speaker 4: And there's a lot of people like us. And once
it's in your blood, you can't get it out. And
you give me the opportunity to stay involved. And but
what also we're trying to develop.
Speaker 5: Here in California is a permanent incident.
Speaker 4: Review office for instant replay official and it's a really
vital part of professional sports in other sports, and it's
slowly making its way into professional boxing.
Speaker 5: It's a great tool. I think the fans just want
to just want the mission and the officials to get
it right.
Speaker 3: Sure, I'm no sure. Do you definitely want to get
it right? Absolutely?
Speaker 5: Well, they're not.
Speaker 4: So many at you when you make a mistake, as
long as you can correct it. And I got no
ego in the sense that if I miss a knockdown
or a head butt and I call it a knock
down and replay tell you know, shows me a different angle. Yeah,
it's hey, I'm made a mistake. Let's let's move on.
Let's change the call and move on because at the end,
the fighter didn't get cheated and the right people, you know.
Speaker 5: Whin the fight.
Speaker 3: Now, do you stay around involved in the commission as
somebody that's like a mentor to the younger referees. I
say this because I've had the great privilege to be
in California for many fights. I've sat in and watched you,
for example, conduct a rules meeting, like sat like a
fly on the wall in the back and watch you
go through where you tell the camps and you know,
deal with how you're going to call the fight, the
hand wrappings, all the business that goes on, uh, you know,
after the weigh ins, where we're you go through all
the roles and obviously all the referees, you know, they
they're going to want to learn that type of stuff too.
Are you going to be involved in maybe the workshops
or the instruction or the mentoring of other young officials
coming up.
Speaker 4: Then. I always have been, and I'm one of the
three certified Referee instructors for the Association of Boxington Commissions.
I travel around the world certifying referees, giving classes and
stuff I did. The last one I did was at
the WVO conference in Puerto Rico and then North Carolina.
I've got one coming up in Phoenix that's a month.
And I'm always doing that and I get.
Speaker 5: A lot of people from all over the world.
Speaker 4: Referees have set me, called me up and being meat
at the conventions. Whatever they can call me up, and
I've been helping that assistant them be the best that
they could be. They send me videos and situations.
Speaker 5: They've been in and I never tell them, you.
Speaker 4: Know, I don't criticize them. I critique them. I go, look,
it's not about writing. It's about what could you do
different or better? If this situation comes up again. You
can't change that one, but.
Speaker 5: You got to learn from this. So we go over
that stuff. And I've been doing that for years.
Speaker 4: And I also got a private training referee training course
to with the assistant some of a couple of other
guys that we've created, and I've invited you in the
pass and you're more than welcome to come again come
this year.
Speaker 5: I appreciate it.
Speaker 4: The Vegas called Soul Arbitter elite boxing referee training.
Speaker 5: So far in four years, we've had.
Speaker 4: About two hundred officials from all over the world come through.
And the best compliment I can get is that you
know the heat coming back right so and they call
us up with their success stories as well as Hey,
challenging situation.
Speaker 5: You know what I mean?
Speaker 3: All right, now, you know the time of the interview
is going to come where we have to talk about
your highest profile fight, probably the most significant moment anyway
that I can think of in terms of the accident
in the ring. You know exactly what I am talking about.
December first, twenty eighteen, Staples Center in Los Angeles. I
was ringside. It was the heavyweight championship of the world.
It was Deontay Wilder, who at the time was the
WBC heavyweight champion. Tyson Fury was still the lineal champion.
They were having the first fight of what turned out
to be their epic trilogy. It was an interesting fight
all the way through. Tyson Fury had gotten knocked down
in round nine, but the big moment Jack, you know
where I'm going here. Round twelve, Tyson Fury with a
suffer as a massively heavy knockdown. I've maintained for every
moment since that occurred that while probably ninety nine percent
of the referees in boxing would have stopped the fight
without counting because he went down so heavily, Jack Reese
was one of the very very few that at the
very least was going to assess him. You made the decision.
Criticized by some, not by me, that you made the
wrong call. I believe you were proven right because Tyson
Fury got up, he beat the count, he won the
rest of the round, and he ended up getting a
draw in the fight. So, and this has come up
a lot because the Fury's been in the news because
of his fight with us Sick. It was in the news,
a lot of people were talking about it because of
the announcement of your retirement. Can you take me through
just your thoughts about that situation in the twelfth round
of that fight, which obviously will you know, be a
fight that you know, every great athlete or referee or
officials remembered for something or other. It seems to me
that you know, among all the big fights you've done,
that's the one that people are going to point to
when they think about Jack Reecee.
Speaker 4: And I'm happy that I was part of that moment
and it went the way it went.
Speaker 5: I do have a little something to express that.
Speaker 4: A lot of my experience comes from the Los Angeles
Fire Department, being an EMT for over thirty one years
and writing for nineteen years as a captain on a
paramedic engine company, going out to shooting standings car and said,
it's beating, and I'm very familiar with trauma.
Speaker 5: I'm very comfortable with trauma because.
Speaker 4: I personally assessed and watched my firefighters and paramedics assess
trauma victims constantly, so I've learned a little bit about trauma.
Then being in a boxing referee, I'm comfortable with it
because I get to see.
Speaker 5: The progression of damage right in front.
Speaker 4: Of me, and I get to see the punchy guy
gets hit with it's called the mechanism of visiony. I
get to see it while it's happening and watch his
body language. So I got a little advantage there from
from that experience. And this was a highly contested fight, Dan,
as you remember in the day before at the press conference,
there was a football field sized room filled with press.
Speaker 5: Do you remember that.
Speaker 3: I was there, absolutely, and you were in it.
Speaker 5: I never saw something, you.
Speaker 3: Know, that was a huge That was a huge deal.
That was a big fight.
Speaker 4: So anyway, this highly heavyweight championship in the world, the
first one in Los Angeles in twenty one years. Two monsters,
huge men, and they were both foxing very incredibly.
Speaker 5: I could you know, My thought was going in the fight,
Tyson Fury's doing pretty good. He's moving, he's bouncing. I
wonder if he can keep this up. That's what my
thought was.
Speaker 4: And in the night, in the ninth round, when he
got knocked down, it was a glancing bloated you know,
knocked his balance off.
Speaker 5: He got right back up, no problem, and we went
back to boxing.
Speaker 4: And when he went down in the twelfth round, it
was two extremely good shots for right hand and the
left hand and dropped him. But unlike everybody else, I'm trained.
I'm watching how he falls and how he lands and
what he does. And people think that he fell flat
on his back and his head slammed against the canvas.
Speaker 5: If that was the case, I probably would have waved
it off. But what actually happened is he fell down.
Speaker 4: Took the brunt of the fall on his forearm and
elbow and then shoulder his head you know, went into
a whipping motion, but it never hit the canvas, and
then he rolled and laid.
Speaker 5: On his back. I pointed down, signaling that I was
scoring in a knockdown.
Speaker 3: That's an O brainer, right, I was gonna say, if
you missed that one up me, we would have interview.
Speaker 5: Pointed wild.
Speaker 4: It was great, I pointed at even you know, I
didn't take him to the corner. I just pointed to
the furthest corner. He went right over, and he was happy.
Speaker 3: To do so well when you probably don't remember or
don't maybe watch it. He turned towards the crowd and
he gave the throats last gesture like he thought the
fight's over, and he walked to the corner.
Speaker 5: Yes, yes, which is an interesting thing we could chat about.
Speaker 4: But and then I picked up a detective account from
the timekeeper. Even though I was going through it in
my mind, I picked up the count from the timekeeper
and started getting closer and as I this is the
important thing but I picked.
Speaker 5: Up instinctively is When I turned to him, he.
Speaker 4: Was laying flat on his back, but his right leg
was up, his knee was sent and he was resting
on a ball.
Speaker 5: But I'm sorry, on the heel of his.
Speaker 4: Foot, that's a conscious act. If he was unconscious, his leg.
Speaker 5: Would have been flat out. He would have, you know,
no muscle control.
Speaker 4: Second thing I noticed stepping in as I got closer,
he was squeezing his gloves. I don't know if you
guys ever saw this. If you watch it again, take
a look. So I said, there's something going on, you know, neurologically.
Speaker 5: Let me see what we got.
Speaker 4: And as I got in closer, I could see his
eyes were open.
Speaker 5: They weren't open wide, but they were open.
Speaker 4: And as I kneeled down, I wasn't even counting out
loud yet, but as I kneeled down, the thing I
saw was he tracked me with his eyes.
Speaker 5: He went from looking straight up to looking at me.
So I started to count.
Speaker 4: I think it was at four, and when I got
the five, he popped his eyes wide open. Sixty, rolled
over and dan. A knockdown is any time due to
illegal punch or punches than any part of about it.
A fighter's body other than the soles of their feet
are touching the canvas.
Speaker 5: Conversely, you are no.
Speaker 4: Longer considered down once no part of your body other
than the soles of your feet are touching the canvas.
Speaker 5: And as I was finishing.
Speaker 4: The word nine, there was no part of his body
touching the canvas.
Speaker 3: Right, And there's been there's been some people that claim
it's a long count, And I've always madeintained that Tyson
Fury is paying attention to the referee, and every referee
has a different cadence that they count. It's not supposed
to be necessarily ten seconds on the stopwatch. It's the
ten count from the official. So some referees might count
slightly slower, some might count a little bit quicker. And
is if the fighter is watching the ref and knows
where he's at in the count and gets up before
he says the word ten, he's up. Am I wrong
about that?
Speaker 5: You're one hundred percent correct.
Speaker 4: Additionally, it's supposed to mirror account of ten seconds, but
no one, no one's exact, and.
Speaker 5: No one's perfect. Right. I got to tell you, I
was very fortunate that night.
Speaker 4: I went over it one hundred times afterward because of
the controversy.
Speaker 5: And my count was spot on. I was at nine
and nine was on the clock. So you know, they
could say what they want, but there's always people that
are betting money.
Speaker 4: You know, they're arguing with their heart instead of what's
really well.
Speaker 3: The other thing is this some and I think this
clouds the view of some that looked at that particular situation.
When he's up and then you, like every other referee
is is instructed to do by the commission, walk to me,
take a step here, wipe the glove. In other words,
there is a few seconds of protocol after you're up
on your feet.
Speaker 4: One hundred and in the old days, they got him up,
they wiped their gloves, they.
Speaker 5: Let them go, and the guy got knocked out.
Speaker 4: The ringside physicians who who have you know, do study
this and concussions constantly say there's got to be a
better way to assess a guy when he's been concussed.
Speaker 5: And over the years it's change. He used to be.
You get him up here, asking questions, then you wipe
his gloves. Then you get him up you're asking questions,
you make.
Speaker 4: Him walk to you wipe his gloves, and in the
recent last ten years, it's been make them walk to
the right or left because they've they've down in dirty turns.
Speaker 5: Any drunk can stagger forward.
Speaker 3: I was going to say, they can. They can bullshit
you and walk forward a little bit right.
Speaker 4: But using your legs to cross over takes more cognitive
function in your brain.
Speaker 5: That's the best way to assess them.
Speaker 4: It had started just before that, about a year before that,
in boxing.
Speaker 5: And professional boxing, and.
Speaker 4: Unfortunately and unfortunately for me, I was one of the
first guys to use it in a high profile fight.
Speaker 5: It's been it's been in the in the rule.
Speaker 4: Book, Larry has it, wrote it up in his policies
a year or two before that, and it's now in
the ABC referees guidelines that you to assess.
Speaker 5: A guy who's concussed. I'm not talking on a.
Speaker 4: Body shot, dad, I'm talking about a heavily concuss guy
and you feel that his ability to in tells me
to send himselves is questionable and make them walk to
the right or.
Speaker 5: Left and demonstrate he's in full control of his body.
Speaker 3: And Theory did that, and he and like I said
when we started this part of the discussion, that he
proved that your decision was correct, because after the fight resumed,
he went and I think it's clear he was the
winner of the rest of the round. He certainly didn't
get knocked down again or show ill effects from the knockdown,
and ended up boxing well in the in the you know,
the last whatever it was about what two minutes or
so left in the round, and ended up win the
draw in the fight. So as I started to say,
this was your highest profile, biggest moment in all the
twenty five years, do you agree with that? Is this
your biggest moment in the ring as a referee.
Speaker 4: Yes, I've had other interesting and wonderful moments, but this
was the most profile line because the amount of eyes
on it and the size of these two guys and
the fact that it was a heavyweight of division and
all that stuff.
Speaker 5: And I'm blessed to be part of it.
Speaker 3: So how about you, yeah, exactly, how about you give
us a couple of those other moments you mentioned besides
that that that in your mind you that you remember
from the fights. And I'm gonna just I'm gonna give
the folks a little bit of a list of I
went through, I literally, Jack, I went through when I
was doing the story about your retirement. A couple of
weeks ago. I went through the entire I think it's
like nineteen pages on box or something like that. I
literally looked through every single page and went through and
called a handful of the biggest fights. And there's way
more than this, so I'll just read a few of them.
There's dozens and dozens of major fights, but just to
name a few, Eryl Spence Junior Sean Porter was a
welterweight unification fight, Gervonta Tank Davis against your york As
gamboa triple G against Marco Antonio Rubio, and you did
other triple G fights in La also Terrence Crawford, Julius
and Dono where you traveled to Nebraska when he became
the undisputed junior welterweight champion. That was one of the
great atmospheres I've ever been in. Bernard Hopkins getting knocked
out of the ring by Joe Smith and what was
Bernard's final fight, Leo Santa Cruz Abner marr is One.
La Staple Center was on fire that night. Lomachenko, Gary Russell,
Michel Kessler, Andre Ward in a big super middleweight world
championship fight, You also worked five seasons of the Contender
reality series, so that's just a smattering of some of
those fights. But you were saying you had met have
a couple of It doesn't have to be from those fights,
by the way, Jackabe, from anything you said, some other
sort of what endearing and funny stories from some other
big fights you worked, or even fights you worked.
Speaker 4: Absolutely, And I want everybody to know that being a
boxing referee isn't glamorous as people might think.
Speaker 5: They fly to this coach, they get us in and
how fast. You know, we don't make.
Speaker 4: A lot of money, and you find yourself doing things
for boxing, like wearing an rcle headband with a camera
in it.
Speaker 3: I remember that what fight was that? I said, I
remember that what fight was that?
Speaker 5: Well?
Speaker 4: You know, but you know, I've always had this attitude
of do what's best for boxing. And I learned that
actually from having conversations with people like you. But in
this case it was Max Callum when we were having
a conversation about something controversial and he says, because that
one was best for boxing. And when I got done
with that, I walked away saying, Wow, there's mortal it
than just two guys in front of you anyway.
Speaker 5: I wore a damn headband with the thing.
Speaker 3: It was a camera. It was a camera there right,
a camera.
Speaker 4: It was a camera in the thing, and I was
miked and then I have had funny situations.
Speaker 5: I ended up. They had asked me to do some
celebrity boxing.
Speaker 4: I refereed Octo Mall against Amy Fisher and the same night,
what's his face?
Speaker 5: The baseball player I'm drawing a blank right now from.
Speaker 3: Oaklands, like, yeah, Jose Cano, jose Canseco.
Speaker 5: I refereed jose I can't remember who I refereed him against.
And ron Jaredy was the ring and I'm.
Speaker 4: Sitting this and I and I literally in between fights,
I went over to the promoter.
Speaker 5: It was such a sham, a sham, this whole thing.
I went over to the promoter. I said, if you
don't pay me in cash right now, me.
Speaker 4: And the timekeeper leaving, that's how we had to get paid.
Speaker 3: Did they is the question?
Speaker 5: Yeah? They did, And I got back in the ring
and it was crazy fights. Ronnie King jumped into the
ring and the robe he came out of nowhere. He
wasn't even on the car. He didn't fight, he just
like jumped in the ring. It was a crazy situation.
Speaker 4: But back to the pros, I wanted to A really
interesting situation was you remember the fight between Andre Ward
and Edward Levegez.
Speaker 3: I sure do, if I'm not mistaken, wasn't Edwin Rodriguez
was like several pounds overweight and andre actually showed himself
to be a real mensch because he was going to
get paid quite a bit of extra money from Edwin
Rodriguez's purse. And I guess when the fight was over,
the way the story goes is that he asked the
Rodriguez team or something like that, like, you know, what's
his situation, meaning like his family, his money and in
the end, you know Edwin had not made a lot
of money, and Andre was like, you know what, let
him keep the money. So he was he was pretty
cool about it.
Speaker 4: Well, he was ten pounds overweight for a super middleweight fights, right.
Speaker 5: And they hated each other. That brought more attention.
Speaker 4: What's his name of Rodriguez got fined two hundred thousand.
One hundred went to the commission, one hundred went to Ward.
I didn't know the story.
Speaker 3: He just told him the award let him keep his money.
At the end, he let him keep that money.
Speaker 5: Peter back, that's wonderful.
Speaker 4: But I swear to God, then you could cut the
tension with a knife. I stepped into the areen. I
had my clothes, I had my bag in my hand,
on my shirts and pants over my you know, on
a hanger.
Speaker 5: On my shoulder. And I got approached by the promoter
Jack just to start into a ship show, you gotta tell.
I said, hey, damn, I got this. We'll take control.
Speaker 4: Relaxed, you know, And then I took a I walked
to one hundred feet and somebody from Rodriguez's.
Speaker 5: Camp came in and started yelling me about something Wars doing.
When I went into the dressing rooms, it was usually
there's a little festivity.
Speaker 4: In the room, that may be music playing. It was
quiet as a mouth in both places. And like I said,
you can cut the tension with a knife.
Speaker 5: And when they started fighting, it was ugly.
Speaker 4: It was like two kids in a playground. They were
wrestling and being dirty like for the first three rounds.
In the fourth round, more of.
Speaker 5: The same stuff.
Speaker 4: I was trying to be very just be progressive. Started
with progressive disciple and I want to jump on him
real hard, real quick, and start taking points.
Speaker 5: It's a world championship fight.
Speaker 4: You end up boxing yourself in the corner and just
qualifying something.
Speaker 3: You don't want to do that.
Speaker 5: So yeah, So in the fourth round, though, it got
real ugly.
Speaker 4: Rodriguez ended up having Ward in in a gua team.
His head was between his arm, and that happens, and
I said stop, and Rodriguez started walking back and lifting
his arm choking Ward. Everybody can hear me saying stop.
And then Rodriguez wasn't stopping, and so Wart says, I'll
take it in my own hands. I started throwing left hands.
Speaker 5: Over the top. They hit the ropes. I had to
jump in and wrestle them off.
Speaker 4: And when I jump in to wrestle them off, I
got hit with a left hand by.
Speaker 3: I was gonna actually ask you if you can remember
a time, because I've seen some things where there's a
break and maybe a ref takes it takes the brunt
of a shot, And so you did get clipped in
that particular fight, And actually, I'm sure that's not the
only time.
Speaker 5: Oh my god, it seems like they're always pointing for
my growing because all of us get hitting the growing
a lot.
Speaker 4: I don't know why when they're dropping their gloves or
you're breaking them whatever.
Speaker 5: But when I.
Speaker 4: Split them up and you know, put them both in
the corner, I was a little big buzzed.
Speaker 5: I ended to lie and I was like fifty years old.
Speaker 4: And I walked over the commission table to I was
trying to I was trying to slow everything down.
Speaker 5: To get it from spiraling that, you know.
Speaker 4: Way out of control. And I walked over the commission
table man then there was.
Speaker 5: Five people, the commissioners and Andy Foster looking up at
me like, oh my god, what are you going to
do with this? And it made me laugh, you know, maybe, Okay,
I got this. I'll do something. And I ended.
Speaker 4: Up taking two points from each of them and recommending
fines with which the Athletic Commission did because I was
trying to let them know that we're not doing this
main event.
Speaker 5: On HBO, a very important fight. This is not the
way to you know.
Speaker 3: And you mentioned I mentioned about eleven hundred and fifty
two fights, and you mentioned to me when we were
going back and forth when I was writing about the
retirement announcement, that you had in all those fights in
twenty five years as a professional referee, had never disqualified
a fighter from any of the bouts you had worked.
And so when you tell me that story, that tells
me A you as an official are able to get
the respect and take control of a fight which is
supposed to be the case, and b in a case
where maybe it was going a little bit sideways like that,
you never let your own emotions get the best of
you to to take a guy out of the fight
on a disqualification. Is that sort of the mindset the
way that a referee has to act to understand it's
not about them, it's about the fighters. I mean, I
know that if it necessary, you would have run a
guy out of the fight. But it tells me that
you had the mindset and commanded the respect from the
guys that you're officiating, who knew they weren't going to
push the ultimate line.
Speaker 5: Excuse me, I got a little bit of fluid. Still
let me Dan one hundred percent.
Speaker 4: And I just want to give you I tried to
impose this theory on some of the younger officials and
some of the older officials, but sometimes.
Speaker 5: You can't teach an old dog new tricks. When I
do seminars.
Speaker 4: I ask people, hey, give me a correlation to what
you think your.
Speaker 5: Our job is with some other.
Speaker 4: Job, and inevitably I have guys telling me a police officer,
and some guys have actually told me a bullfighter.
Speaker 5: On a matador. And I said, guys, that's going to
get you in trouble.
Speaker 4: I go, a matador is all about himself, A matadors
wearing the fancy uniform.
Speaker 5: A matador is the one. You know what I'm saying,
They're throwing attention to themselves. And I said, just what
you said.
Speaker 4: I go, guys, it's not about you, It's not about us.
Speaker 5: I said, if you want to ask me and Dan.
Speaker 4: This has been my attitude for not my whole career,
but because I had learned, but for the last twenty years.
For sure, I look at what we do as I'm
an orchestra leader to get out there and people noticed
me in the beginning, and people understand that I got
a job that even announce what you are.
Speaker 5: But once the music starts playing, no one notices the
orchestra leader because they're listening to the music. The only
time they noticed that orchestra leader is that something.
Speaker 4: Dramatic it has to be played, and he makes a
dramatic move.
Speaker 5: I've tried to remember myself to that state the hell
out of the way being conspicuous. Don't I work hard.
Speaker 4: I've worked hard for twenty years not to disqualify people.
Speaker 5: I go.
Speaker 4: A guy who uses a disqualification as a tool has
got it wrong.
Speaker 5: It's like a cop thinking shooting and killing someone is
just a tool.
Speaker 4: It's not.
Speaker 5: It's a last resource.
Speaker 3: By the way, I'm I'm sure there have been fights
where where if it had come to it, you would
have been able to you would have pulled the trigger
and done it. But I'm making a point in Jack
that because of the way you conduct yourself, that you
had the respect for them to at least listen enough
to not get themselves thrown out of a fight. Not
every referee has that respect from the guys that they're visitating.
Speaker 5: But I will.
Speaker 4: But other than that, man, I respected them right because
I didn't want.
Speaker 5: To have to.
Speaker 4: And if I my attitude was if I'm taking points,
but more importantly, if I ever have to disqualify guy,
I'm not disqualifying him.
Speaker 5: He's disqualifying himself. He's getting the points taken from himself.
So the fans are going, I'm happy he did that.
I'm glad he finally did that. It's it's the guy
he did it. I didn't do it. If that makes
sense to it, yes it does.
Speaker 3: So here's the thing unrelated to the points and the
deductions and the and the not disqualifying somebody. I'm looking
at the list of the names I read in terms
of the bigger fights you worked, and I know there's
so many others there. Who do you I mean again,
now that you're not referring them, you can give your opinions.
I guess who's the Who's the best fighter you feel
like you ever watched in the ring as a referee.
I don't know if you. I can't think off the
top of my head, if you ever refereed like a
you know, a Floyd Mayweather fighter, a many packout fighter,
a Canelo fight, guys like that. But Who's who do
you think the best fighter you ever wrapped the fight for?
Speaker 4: I can't say the best that there's a there's a
top tier guys that I was. I was absolutely amazed
when I was in the ring, Guys like Momachenko, bet Hop,
Triple G, Guys that just are tacticians, and like.
Speaker 5: The smartest guy was Bernard Hopkins, no question about it.
Speaker 4: As a referee, if you're on his right, he's he's
throwing kidney shots with.
Speaker 5: His left hand.
Speaker 4: You move over to the other side to see if
he's using in the other hands.
Speaker 3: He's throwing hip shots. He's throwing kidney shots. I've seen them.
Speaker 5: And here's how he is. He's always looking for an
Advan's always looking to win.
Speaker 4: When he was fighting Joe Smith, and Joe threw a
borderline shot with no effect, but I wanted it wasn't
the first, and I wanted Joe didn't.
Speaker 5: Know to keep him up.
Speaker 4: So I very softly said and and Bernard had no reaction,
and I very softly said, Joe, keep him up. Nobody
heard me except the fighters, right, And all of a sudden,
his wine and starts.
Speaker 5: And I go, not off man, He's always looking for
an advantage.
Speaker 3: That sounds like the Bernard Hopkins. I know that sounds
just like him.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but and Loma watching him take the guy apart
and triple g with his power.
Speaker 5: And his uh, just so many guys.
Speaker 4: I came to Andrew Ward, Oh my god, no, there
now I'm watching Terrence. I've been in the ring with
Terrence Crawford and Jervara Davis and was shown for Erol Spence.
Speaker 5: All these guys that would just unbelievable.
Speaker 4: They're all good at certain things and it was wonderful
of being part of it.
Speaker 5: I was just blessed.
Speaker 3: So ill I'll wrap up then with this, Jack. You
know you just mentioned all these top fighters that you've
been in the ring with. In terms of the referee,
I know there's there's a bunch, you know, Fary Wilder also,
I'm sure in that list. Oh my god. So do
you ever, like I mean to do the refereeing gig
or judging gig as long as you do it to
be a writer, like as long as I've done it,
you have to also at your heart be a fan
of the sport, and I know that you are. Do
you ever take a minute to think like of not
that you that the fighters are the ones that are
doing what people remember for the most part, but that
you are at least a small piece of this, you know,
historical fight that you've worked, whatever the championship fight is
that you work, whether it's the heavyweight title with Wilder,
and if you're the other matches you just mentioned, like,
do you kind of like pinch yourself a little bit
go back and ever watch them or read about them,
or think about them, and just know that you're a
part of like the great fabric of this this timeframe
in the sports history.
Speaker 4: Yes, now, I'll tell you what happens during when you're
a referee.
Speaker 5: For me, anyway, all.
Speaker 4: I wanted to do is be the best Jacklice I
could be each night, And so.
Speaker 5: I didn't really worry about what other rest were doing
and try to beat them. Is how do you beat
somebody else? You know what I'm saying. Anyway, I just
always concentrated be the best you could be.
Speaker 4: And it was said in a sense that I would
come out of a like I came out of the.
Speaker 5: Wilder Fury fight and people, you.
Speaker 4: Know, congratulating a nice fight, all that stuff, and I
was enjoying it with my wife on the way home,
and I was already saying about the next fight I had.
And you don't really get a chance.
Speaker 5: If you want to be the best you could be,
you can't sit and you know, pat yourself on the
back and stuff. You got to look at those fights
and see what you could have done different or better.
Speaker 4: And now that I'm done, since all this and people
like yourself have been asking me questions.
Speaker 5: I've been taking back. I mean, I'm so blessed in
I can't even tell you.
Speaker 4: And I really appreciate the opposite fact that I was
part of some of these these fights that that I've
been part of and it's just amazing and I love it.
Speaker 3: Well, I can just say congratulations on a great career.
And I would assume that in the next couple of years,
if next year we will see the name of Jack
Reese on the International Boxing Hall of Fame ballot, of
which I have voted for from in years, I don't
think I'm breaking any ground here today that I will
be my honor to vote for you when you appear
on the ballot. Jack, thank you very much for your
time you Bet, and I wish you good luck and
I hope next time' in LA if you're judging, I'm
going to see around the fights, yes.
Speaker 5: Sir, and thank you for the opportunity to come on
your show. I appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Bet, and believe it or not, I did peruse your
what four thousand word item on that knockdown of Tyson
Fury and all the impact, all the different angles from
it and what could have happened because Reese could have
stopped the fight as you as you made reference to
the Wilder Fury first fight in Los Angeles that he worked.
That's I mean, we got to say that's probably the
most prominent. Would you say there's another more prominent world
title fight that Jack Reice worked.
Speaker 1: That's probably the one that we remember the most.
Speaker 3: I mean, no question, that's going to be what people
remember the most. Jack talked about it in the interview.
He says, that's, no question the one that will be
the one that people remember. But as we discussed, he
worked numerous fights of other top notch fighters and other
big world title fights. He's worked, you know, uh, you know,
all slew of them. I mean they can hear the interview.
But Spence and Porter and Gerbonda Davis fights and Tyle
fights and Terrence Crawford when he became undisputed in the
Jewior welterweight division, Bartard Hopkins when Joe Smith knocked Hi
out of the ring, and on and on and on.
Speaker 2: Yep, great stuff there from Jack, and we thank him
for spending some time with you and love it. Love
it there on that conversation. Okay, so now let's do
a little news like we typically do. There was a
world title fight on Thursday, so even though this is
not the recap preview, the timing is still good. I
have to confess I did not have Panya Pradeseri, how
do you say this name, prad Deese Prie and Carlos
Canizalees on my bingo card for Thursday. But the fight
was in Thailand, WBC Junior Flyweight Championship, and what a surprise.
Before the end of this year, we have yet another
boxing judging controversy. Uh just say something about this, go ahead.
Speaker 3: Well, look, this was they were fighting for the vacant title.
It was Canazales was going on the road to Thailand
to take on you know, a quality fighter, a guy
that's been a champion previously, and in the end it
turned out to be a contraver decision. I mean, here's
how you can tell it's controversial. I mean you can
read the accounts or listen to people or watching yourself.
But when Mauricio Suliman, who was the president of the WBC,
so it is his organization that he oversees that has
uh sanctioned this fight. Now he was not present at
the fight obviously.
Speaker 5: Uh.
Speaker 3: He he put a post up with a picture of
the scorecard on his Twitter feed is x feed where
he talked about, you know, a terrific fighting. Uh and
it was you know, a majority sort of controversial decision
and that quote in the in the post he wrote,
I and he doesn't ever do this. Mauricio is a
you know, usually keeps his business behind closed doors when
it comes to admonishing you know, his own people. Quote,
I am disappointed at the performance of the WBC judges
in specific rounds and that will order an immediate review
by the corresponding committee. WBC ring officials are accountable for
their performance. So that's Mauricio's way of saying without saying it,
that was a shit scorecard. Uh, you know, shitty that
was turned in. One of the judges had this fight
even one fourteen one fourteen one judge had at one fifteen,
one to thirteen. I'm sorry, yeah, one fifteen, one thirteen
to one had at one sixteen to one twelve. So
I have seen parts of the fight. It is on YouTube.
I will watch the entirety of it at some point
in the next few days. In reading accounts of the
fight from people whose opinions I respect online, it does
sound as though this was a pretty terrible decision. You know, Canazales,
who had been a the WBA's regular title holder at
one point, pretty good fighter makes good fights, went all
the way from Venezuela to Thailand to have this fight,
and apparently, you know, was the victim of a pretty
bad scorecard. You know, one of the accounts I read
about it was making the point that in the later
part of the fight, it was almost as though, uh,
he was going for the knockout, that's how dominating he was.
And they ended up giving the fight to the Thailand fighter.
And by the way, the fight's taking place in Thailand,
and apparently the crowd was booing the scorecard, because even
the Thai crowd thought the other guy. So that's a
rough night at the office.
Speaker 2: But we'll see, all right, We'll see what Mauricio does,
and we'll see if he publicizes what he does to
reprimand judges and the and the scoring of that title
fight at WBC Junior Flyweight title fight.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take one more stab at the.
Speaker 2: Name Panya deep Reside, if that's how you say it
from Thailand.
Speaker 1: That was got the hand raised. All right. Now, you
did go down.
Speaker 2: The litany of fights for the first quarter of next year,
which we're about to be in next year for Matchroom
Boxing back on our podcast.
Speaker 3: But I want to correct one thing by the way
Bred three, he actually had previously been the WBC's strawweight champion,
so he was naked getting a shot at this vacant
on a one way class. I just want to clarify that.
Speaker 2: Because and Canizales had been the regular champion right of
the WBA, of the w BA, and there's probably going
to be a rematch, all right. So on the match
Room des own schedule, they have made official the Catterall
Barbosa fight that you have talked about and we talked
about on this podcast. So give us the particulars on
when that's going to be.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So this was so we had that discussion about their
first quarter of Matrooms events with his own. After we
had that conversation, this fight was officially added to the calendar.
Not a huge surprise because it's been in the works
and they had postponed a pur spid and everybody knew
they were getting close to getting this squared away. And
then when Oscar de la Hoya from Golden Boy, which
is the promoter of Barbosa, and Eddie Hearn who was
the promoter for Jack Caterroll, saw each other face to face,
I guess I had a lunch or dinner together when
they were both in Saudi Arabia at the Usik and
Fury rematch, they were able to close this up and
it is now set. It will take place February fifteenth
at the co Op Live, which is the big new
arena in Manchester, England, which is essentially Jack Cadrell's home.
Tounies comes from a smaller town, you know, in the
outskirts of Manchester, so Arnold Barbosa, Los Angeles fighters on
the road. And the most significant aspect of it is
that the winner of this fight, according to the WBO,
will be the mandatory challenger. So that belt is currently
held by Tfima Lopez. So the winner is going to
get a title shot, whether it's against Tiafimo or you
know somebody else that should Tiafimo lose or he they
cats or what have you. But so that fight is made.
Now a lot of people have been saying, oh, this
is a great fight, it's such a great matchup, blah
blah blah. And it's a good match up. From the
standpoint that you've got two highly regarded guys in the
weight class, I'm a little skeptical how good the fight's
actually going to be. And it's not a knock on
the two guys, because they both have their styles that
have been extremely effective for them, but neither one of
them has been known to make terrific fights, and so
when you put those guys against each other, I am
somewhat skeptical of it being, you know, a fan friendly
kind of fight. But certainly the guy that wins is
going to emerge and put himself in a position for
the title fight, and you know they'll they'll take that
next step.
Speaker 2: So while we're here, there are reports out there that
Tea Fimo Lopez is fighting Suprial Matias to defend the
WBO's Junior Welterweight championship, that this Catterall Barbosa fight would
be the eliminator for that will belt. But you want
to make clear as we head towards this weekend, that
final ain't done with Supreal Matias.
Speaker 1: Correct correct.
Speaker 3: The way that the ESPN report was framed was the
fight was being finalized, and I talked to various people
that would be evolved in the fight who laughed at that.
And Carl Moretti from Top Rank, who was the promoter
of Tia Fimo Lopez, went on the record, which is
rare in these instances, but because it was so outlandish
that it was quote, being finalized, they decided to give
a comment about it. And so Carl's opinion, or his
comment to me was, you know, it's so far from
getting done. Yes, there's been conversations, but we are miles
apart and there's a lot of things that have to
go into that.
Speaker 2: So let me just contemplate this being finalized and quote,
we are miles apart.
Speaker 1: That ain't the same thing. That's not the same thing.
Speaker 3: So while it is possible that the fight will eventually
get finalized, the notion that it is some how sitting
there and they're waiting to sign contracts and all, and
that the terms are all agreed to her this or
that is just simply not accurate at this point. And
in fact, that one of the dates that was where
the only date that was mentioned in that report was
March fifteenth, So I asked Carl about that. He said, well,
March fifteenth is a date we might do an event,
but we also have dates in April and May, so
you know, that's like anytime in like basically the first
roughly half of the year. Talking to his promoter to Sibrill,
Matias is browner. By the way, keep in mind, if
it does happen, it is an interesting fight because tia
Fimo is the champ, and we all know about him,
and we know about Subril Mattias with his tremendous punching power.
Or even if he did get you know, a pretty
big upset loss against Liam Parr that cost him the title,
he has fought one time since. He fought you know,
a much lesser opposition type opponent back in another hometown
fight in Puerto Rico, our home area fight in Puerto
Rico where he scored a quick knockout, and then now
he's looking to get back into the mix. But if
you talk to tia Fimo Lopez and you look at
what he says, you know, he says, you want to
if this guy wants to fight that guy. Richardson Hitchins,
who won the title of the of a different organization
has been calling him out.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 3: There they know each other from the New York scene. Uh,
they they're interested in fighting each other also. I mean,
so while maybe the Matias I will happen, it's certainly
not the only option for TV.
Speaker 1: It was just I was just going there.
Speaker 2: The miles apart or not finalized probably has to do
with is Mattias willing to come and fight in the
United States? That's possible, and also what's the money and
if they can't agree on that to a FEMA will
fight somebody else.
Speaker 3: Well, there's no questioning, no question Matias would fight in
the United States. He's done that before. Uh, there's there's
no question about it. He's not going to dictate to
Ta Femo where the fight would be. Uh, you know,
and it would I don't I don't know this, but
if they do make the match, it would seem logical
to place it in a place like New York, where
Tafimo was from and where there's a large Puerto Rican population,
where they would probably turn on for Mattias also. But anyway, again,
if the fight happens, terrific, it's a really good matchup
and I would be excited to see it. But I'm
just making to point that according to the powers that
be involved directly, it's not not babe, not.
Speaker 2: Done, not close to being finalized. So anyway, now you
are reporting something else about Ramon Chaco La Tito Gonzalez.
Speaker 1: We've talked about it. What do you mean, what's ramone Roman?
Speaker 2: Excuse me not Roman, Roman Choco Latito Gonzalez, thank you,
the four division world champ.
Speaker 1: We've been theorizing.
Speaker 2: There's been talk that maybe it's Bam Rodriguez, but you're saying, no, no,
something else is going on with Roman Chocola Tito Gonzalez.
Speaker 1: What have you learned? What's going on?
Speaker 3: So he had been off for like nineteen months and
he came back in the summer and he scored a
hometown victory in Managua. Actually had it in the Alexis
Argueo Sports Complex, which is named after the great Nick Roguin,
who was Roman Gonzalez's mentor as a young fighter. He
was his He discovered him, essentially trained him in the amateurs,
trained him a little bit in the early days in
the pros. And the only other Nick Garaguin fighter that's
come close to approaching the accomplishments of Argueo is Roman Gonzales.
I mean, you can make the argument because he got
the fourth title that you maybe even can move in
the ahead of Roman Gonzalaz in the in the uh
in the pantheon of fighters from Nicaraga. But uh. Anyway,
he came back and he won that fight. He looked
pretty good against you know, a regular type of opponent,
and he wanted to fight for a title after that.
There was some conversation, as you mentioned, about the possibility
of a Bam Rodriguez fight, and we've discussed in the
past about maybe why it wouldn't happen because mister Hannah
from Teaking Promotions is not a fan of matching his
guys like that, and there's obviously a big age gap
between the two and you know, I don't think anybody
wants to see Roman against a young stud like a
Bam and maybe you know, take a rough loss, you know,
in the twilight of his career, but that doesn't mean
he still can't fight against quality opposition anyway. So Tatiko
Zabala from All Star Boxing, who was the who's the
promoter of that card that they brought him back in
that took place in Nicaraga in the summertime, who was
also very close to mister Hannah from Teakinbaka is working
on an event where they would make a fight between
Roman Chocolateito Gonzaz to challenge the WBO title holder at
Jingior Bandawaite is from Layle Cafu from South Africa, who
won the title in his previous fight, and people could
see that it was on one of the Japan cards
that was brought in on ESPN Plus. So they're looking
to do that fight on a date in March and
do it at at the National Baseball Stadium in Monagua
where they would bring in obviously a huge crowd to watch,
you know, their favorite son potentially win another world title.
So that seems to me a better course of action
than maybe putting him in with Bam Rodriguez, at least
right away. If Roman won that fight and now he's
the WBO champion and Bam Rodriguez, who was the lineal
champion and the WBC champion, maybe in the second part
of the year they end up do making the fight,
which would be a unification. But in the meantime they're
looking to do this Chocolatito fight, and so again tudors
Abala on the record saying that is what we are
working on. They are hoping to get this official announcement
soon and they're working on this baseball stadium as the
venue for the fight in March.
Speaker 2: Interesting, Cafu, you're not as concerned about. But again, Bam,
whether it's now four months from now or a year
from now, that could be a dangerous situation.
Speaker 1: He's a hard hitting young lion, that's for sure.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I mean, Kafu is eleven and zero with three draws.
He has eight knockouts. He's twenty six. He's a southpaw,
so there's that aspect of it. He won his first
fight on the road, so if he goes to Nicaragua, okay.
He went to Tokyo and he won a split decision
in Tokyo, so that tells you something there. He took
it from the four division Japanese titlelder Kosei Tanaka. This
was back in October on the undercart of Nakatani's last
title defense. So he proved himself to be a road
warrior in that sense. And he is undefeated, just not
necessarily as acclaimed as a bam Rodriguez, who we all
have seen show himself to be a worthy town guy.
And by the way, Bam Rodriguez is not the last fight,
but the earlier fight this year that he had he
destroyed Estrada, who is the guy that hung the loss
in two of the three fights on Roman Gonzalees. So
you know, if you want to look at the common opponent,
there's that there is.
Speaker 2: Okay, so good on the info. All right, Wait a minute,
I just I take Davis and Lamont roach. All right,
they are scheduled once again rescheduled to fight in March.
But what is the latest pre Christmas humbug going on here?
Speaker 1: What's going on here?
Speaker 3: Okay? So the fight, like you said, scheduled for March
first at Barclay Center in Brooklyn, New York, the main
event of a PBC Prime pay per view card also
a PPV dot com fights already being promoted. They already
had a news conference where they both attended a couple
of weeks ago in New York City. And okay, fights happening.
You know, there's different undercard fights that are being put together.
Everybody's moving along like we're getting this fight. Tank hasn't
fought in a while. Roach hasn't fought a while. They
only fought both of them by.
Speaker 1: We should interject.
Speaker 2: They were trying to make this happen for December fourteenth,
two weeks ago. For whatever reasons, it didn't happen, and
there was talk maybe it's in January.
Speaker 1: It's now set for March.
Speaker 2: We've done two city press conferences, No, just one for this.
I thought it was New York and DC. I thought
it was too.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah it was too We've done.
Speaker 1: Two press conferences and now what please? Now what?
Speaker 3: And so now I you know, Tank is a mercurial individual. Uh,
he's a creature of his social media. He went on
his Instagram account. This was a couple of days ago.
I guess this was on Monday of this week, and
he and I don't know what the picture was any
if there was any significance, but it was the picture
of like what looked like just a normal like gray
floor like you'd see in a department store or at
cafeteria or an office building. And and then the words
that were typed on top of the photo, the fight
is fucking canceled, No ed, just cancel And that was it, and.
Speaker 2: Which we presumed to mean his fight with roj So
what else are you talking?
Speaker 1: We could we could qualify it.
Speaker 2: It could mean another fight, but we zoom because he
wasn't specific. He means his fight.
Speaker 3: So and so anyway, Roach then is inundated, apparently on
his social media about hey Lama, what's up? Are you fighting?
And so lamar Roach, who's been training his ass off
in Washington doing his thing. He put up his own
message on his Instagram saying, the fuck you keep asking
me for He said that shit, not me, I'm locked in.
He and shit change March first, Brooklyn. So he thinks
the fights on. So I did what you're supposed to
do in those situations, and I asked around for the
PBC people. They're spokespeople, try to reach out to, you know,
the promoters. H can't. Nobody seems to know. They're like, well,
we we've seen what Tank posted, what we have been.
We've not been informed that it's off, but I guess
it's possible he pulled out anyway. The point is nope.
And then the holidays were here, so a lot of
people were not like in big close communications with everybody
or you know, on their Instagram or on their social
or you know, taking phone calls or what have you. Anyway,
so apparently Tank is claiming the fight is off or
I should say, fucking cancel, and the folks that are
the ones that are mounting the event are not really sure.
Speaker 2: All right, as you've constantly said, you've done this forever.
Speaker 1: Is this a money thing? Just speculating?
Speaker 2: Is this a money thing where he wants a certain
amount of money and they've come back to him and said,
don't know that we can get you that. And so
now this is the response, you know the reason that's
my first blush reaction to hearing this.
Speaker 3: I get that, and if anything is possible, but normally
when you've already done two press conference and then formally
announced a fight and it's now it's you know. You
can find the link to it on PPV dot com.
You can find it on Amazon if you look for it.
They've sent out stuff, they've been setting up interviews, blah
blah blah. I mean, I would I would think that
that would not be the case. That you take care
of your money shit before you go do a press conference.
And Tank is an experience enough championship level fighter to
have been down this road for a series of pay
per view fights that he know the drill. So we'll
have to wait and see. I assume perhaps once the
holidays are over and we get back to business, you know,
the next week or so, we'll get a little more
clarity about what's happening. My assumption is that this is
tank habin one of his you know moments where he's
just in a bad mood or what have you, and
was a little bit impetuous, if I shall say, and
made this post, and that unless something else dramatically happened,
there's like a boni fide injury or something that come
March first, they'll be fighting each other.
Speaker 1: All right.
Speaker 2: You have the optimism there as we as we come
to the close of this year, that that fight will
still go on. The other thing is this is not
a fight that makes everybody jump up and down to
begin with, and we're taking the extra time to have it,
and now it may not happen, all right, nostalgia Before
we depart here right after Christmas. In fact, it was
December twenty sixth of nineteen oh eight. No, Rayphiel was
not ringside for this one.
Speaker 3: Leaving Larry Merchant was a ringside for.
Speaker 2: That one Larry Merchant was not there. No, it was
the late Bert Randolph Sugar. I don't think one. One
hundred and sixteen years ago.
Speaker 4: Kids.
Speaker 2: On December twenty sixth, one hundred and sixteen years ago, Thursday,
Jack Johnson defeated Tommy Burns in round number fourteen of
a scheduled twenty rounder in Australia, of all places, and
became the first black heavyweight champion of the world. Obviously
significant for a lot of different reasons. So give me
more on the nostalgia.
Speaker 3: Well, it was, obviously, you say, a highly significant fight.
It was Jack Johnson from the United States traveling to
Australia to fight Tommy Burns, a Canadian fighter for the
world heavyweight championship. I mean Tommy Burns at that time,
you know we're talking about in the early days of
loved boxing, if you will. It was this twelfth title defense,
so he was an established champion, Tommy Burns was and
because it was such an unusual situation and a black
man being permitted to fight for the heavyweight title, which
had not happened before, there was arrangements that were made
with the local authorities because they were worried about there
being riots if Jack Johnson was the winner, particularly if
there were pictures dissemined or video or you know, film
out disseminated across the world of a black man knocking
out a white man, that that would not go over
well with a large majority of the countries that would
be seeing that that that that those film clips anyway,
So before the fight, they had arranged with like the
local police that were there as security and whatnot, to
just make sure everything stayed in order that this was
if he was going to look like he was about
to get knocked out, that that they would stop the
fight before he got drilled and not call it a
knock got called a points decision. So technically speaking, this
fight is I guess in the record books if you
will on box wreck, et cetera, as a fourteen round decision.
But I don't know about you, TJ. I've never seen
a fourteen round decision in a twenty round fight or
a ten round decision twelve round fight, unless it's a
technical decision because of a foul or something an incident
that causes the fight to be stopped, not where you're
about to get knocked the fuck out, but because he
had them in such bad shape in that fourteenth round,
the police did intervene and they stopped the fight.
Speaker 1: With the police intervened, which we love well.
Speaker 3: I guess the referee with the police as the fights about, right,
you know.
Speaker 1: And so the video we have to explain.
Speaker 3: We have to They cut the video. They cut it
so you don't see him get whacked.
Speaker 2: We have to explain, at least to the millennials. You
have to understand that the racial situation, not just in
the United States, but in the world was different, not
just fifty years ago or seventy five years ago, but
we're literally talking over one hundred years ago. First of all,
you have to understand that Australia was a British prison
colony or continent for the better part of one hundred
years until nineteen oh one Raphael when it constituted as
its own country of Australia. So this is only about
seven years after that. And by the way, there's no
air travel in these days, so you're talking about get
on a ship, literally, get on a ship and sail
to Australia for about ten days to two weeks.
Speaker 1: By the way to.
Speaker 3: Go, I gotta give you a couple of other, I got
to give you a little bit else, so I was
I was doing a little like looking. So I've first
of all, if you want to know more about Jack
Johnson and this fight in particular, because there's a big
sex of it, you must watch the absolutely. I can't
give it more as there. If it's five stars, I
give it ten stars. I mean, there's a documentary that
the great Ken Burns produced about Jack Johnson's career in
life called Unforgivable Blackness that debuted probably in two thousand
and four, two thousand and five, and I re actually
remember when it was being promoted. They brought him to
New York around a big fight that I was at covering,
and they and we all got a chance to sit
and talk with Ken and about his project. He later
on obviously produced and did the Muhammad Ali documentary, as
well as numerous other great documentaries that are not boxing related.
But this is a the to me anyway, It's like
the official account of Jack Johnson's career in life. It's
absolutely fucking phenomenal. I can't give it a higher ray
Field rating than that. But anyway, in this fight where
Jack Johnson is fighting Tommy Burns for the heavyweight title.
You know, keep in mind if you're if you're in
a heavyweight championship fight or just any heavyweight fight, typically
you're gonna wear twelve ounce gloves. I'm sorry, take the
back ten ounce gloves. My bad. They were larger gloves
in the Tyson Jake Paul fight. If you're below welter
what you wearing eight ounce gloves? So ten ounces for
heavyweights eight ounces below you know, into the welterweight division
and below. They wore four ounce gloves in this fight.
It was more like an MMA glove basically, and it
still went into the fourteenth round.
Speaker 2: Not not exactly to Tommy Burge's advantage against Jack Johnson.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't think.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 3: Now here's here's another wild another wild stat They wanted
the former champion, James J. Jefferies to referee the fight,
but you know, they couldn't work it out. He wanted
a certain amount of money that they weren't willing to pay.
So let me ask you a question, Jajoe, who do
you think refereed the fight? I'll tell you who refereed
the fight.
Speaker 1: You know, but I don't don't know.
Speaker 3: The referee of the fight was the promoter of the fight, Macintosh.
This was the first ever boxing match he ever refereed,
and he was referring the heavyweight championship fight, the fight
he was promoting. So just to put this in context,
Eddie Hearn is the referee for a fight involving his guys,
or Bob Aram or Bob Aram.
Speaker 1: Or Frank don King.
Speaker 3: So they're referring their own fight, which is like one
of the most.
Speaker 2: Fight in which we've already contacted the local authorities that
if a certain outcome is about to happen, we've got
to stop the fight, cut the video because of race
relations and the concern of race riots. And by the way,
and this is in the Burns documentary, and it's an
amazing footnote. Jack Johnson had a white wife. I don't
know if they were married at this time, but he
had a white wife at a time in which there
was racial hatred in the United States beyond belief.
Speaker 1: It's just amazing. The back dray, the death.
Speaker 2: Threats the guy dealt with on a regular basis, the
different stuff that went on.
Speaker 3: The you know the famous novelist Jack London. Yes, Jack
London was in Sydney covering this fight for one of
the New York newspapers. That's how Now I'm going to
read you a line from what was written in the
New York Times about this fight, referring to the ending,
because we talked about with the police and their intervention.
I mean, people just don't even understand how different it
was back then. And we have craziness today. There was
craziness back then also, just they didn't have Instagram and Twitter. Anyway,
in the New York Times, the end came in the
fourteenth round when the police, seeing Burns tottering and unable
to defend himself from the savage blows of his opponent,
mercifully stopped the fight. Previously, it had been arranged that
if the police interfered, a decision would be rendered on points,
and referee Macintosh, without hesitation, declared the big black Man
the winner, for I mean for all through the fight
he had shown himself to be Burns's master in every
style of fighting, so they rendered it an official decision.
But he really got knocked out, so I referred to
it as a knockout.
Speaker 2: But it's the first time ever that a black man
held the heavyweight championship. In nineteen oh eight and then
go ahead and give the litany. How long did he rain?
It's an amazing run that Jack Johnson had after that
in the nineteen aughts, you love this, and then the
nineteen tens, he was the guy for that long.
Speaker 3: Well, I mean, first of all, he is think about
when he became the heavyweight champion. How many decades it
was before. Take, for example, Jackie Robinson broke the color
barrier in baseball. I mean it was forty years or
so before that occurred. I mean, that's how big of
a thing it was. I mean, imagine, you know, if
you do any reading up on or watching documentaries or
listening about the things that Jackie Robinson went through, I
can only imagine it being that much worse for a
Jack Johnson because.
Speaker 2: Racial integration didn't happen in the United States until the
nineteen sixties, almost sixty years after this fight in Australia,
and Jack Johnson would eventually have a couple of different
fight in the United States, but it also would fight
at other places.
Speaker 3: But yeah, he held the title. People held the titles.
Jack Johnson held the title until nineteen fifteen. He got
knocked out by Jess Willard. This was in what his
ninth title defense in Cuba of all places. A lot
of people have you know, there's the conspiracy he may
have thrown the fight because you know, he's looking up
and like the sun is in his eyes, blah blah,
he's got.
Speaker 1: A glove over his eyes while the sun is in
his eyes. Being counted out.
Speaker 3: Yes, but the point is he held the title for
quite a while and in a time where it was
difficult every single time. So from nineteen oh eight, you
know onward, until that Willard fight, he was the heavyweight
champion of the world, and like you said, he fought
you know, lots of top guys of his era, and
that was that. But to get that position, to break
that color barry because there's so many great fighters through
boxing history that because of their skin color never got
the opportunity to fight for major titles or to have
the big time fights. And the thing that I always
found to be kind of I don't think it was
Jack Johnson's choice, but when he was the champion, he
was never allowed I don't think. Maybe I'm again, he
never fought another black challenger, but I think it's because
he wasn't allowed to fight another black challenger.
Speaker 2: So it's crazy because again this begot Joe Louis eventually
becoming the heavyweight champion of the world and having the
heavyweight title through the nineteen thirties and into the early forties,
and then it was interesting again with racial segregation going on,
Joe Lewis was actually viewed upon as a national hero
despite the racial problems. Joe Lewis went during World War
Two and visited the troops and was a symbolism too.
Speaker 1: He was in the army im as the American spirit.
Speaker 3: But Joe Lewis was also told and you can read
up on this also his own handlers, you know, telling
him the way to act like, so he would be
appealing to the white Americans. Also, don't let yourself be
photographed with a white woman, you know, don't talk out
of turn, don't shit talk your opponent. That's why it
became such a thing when the guy's like now Muhammad
Ali starts track talking everybody, RIGHTA. Lewis didn't do that.
Speaker 1: Because the interesting.
Speaker 2: Thing is Jack Johnson in the chronology was before Joe Lewis,
who was before Ali, and then we eventually obviously got
to Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson. If Aner, Holyfield, Lennox, Lewis,
et cetera, et cetera, and then into the present day.
But it's amazing to go back now to nineteen oh eight.
That is incredible on the nostalgia for Jack Johnson becoming
the first black heavyweight champion one hundred and sixteen years ago.
Speaker 3: All right, my friend, for the record, just for the record, Yeah,
I do not have in my boxing collection a program
or a poster from that fight, but we know if
they exist yet there was a program and there was
a fight poster. Yes, sir, how do we know they existed?
Speaker 2: I mean authentically you've seen them authentically, authenticly authenticated. Okay,
but you're still in search of you're in search off
at this point on trying.
Speaker 3: I don't have like, I don't think I'm spending like,
you know, ten grand on a program, you know what
I mean?
Speaker 5: Or whatever? It would go.
Speaker 2: Wow, that's quite an investment for the Rayfield collection. We
got to look getting a little more podcast revenue if
that is the case.
Speaker 3: So leave us a freaking review please so I can
buy my fucking.
Speaker 2: Yes, this has been an interesting show. We do have
that preview of the Martinez Ioka fight which again is
Tuesday morning in the United States, New Year's Eve morning
in the US New Year's Eve primetime in Tokyo. We
will handicap that fight on the bet Us Boxing Show
Live Friday at one Eastern time.
Speaker 1: Again. Enjoy the conversation.
Speaker 2: Enjoyed the conversation and got some enlightenment from Jack Reese
here on the pod. Anything else before we head to
the weekend and wrap up twenty twenty four, Damn Rayfield, anything.
Speaker 3: Else with everybody? A happy holiday season, right yeah, Happy
New Year, New Year, the whole.
Speaker 1: The whole bit will be.
Speaker 2: We'll be coming back your way again previewing and recapping
in twenty twenty five. For now, everybody check us out
on BetUS and their platforms and their YouTube.
Speaker 1: On Friday at one Eastern time as we.
Speaker 2: Release this podcast, Big Dan, have a good weekend. We'll
talk to you again soonj also jump aboard on his
fight Preach Unite, Substack, subscribe, get on the newsletter. You
want to be there for all the intel, for all
the info. With that, for now, we're good previewing into
the weekend one more time here in twenty twenty four.
You've been locked in on the Big Fight Weekend Preview podcast,